▶ 0:04:31over here. Good afternoon. The committee will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recess at any time. Before we begin, we have one housekeeping item. The committee will recess at approximately 6:10 p.m. so that members can attend a candlelight vigil in the Capitol. If we're unable to complete our business before them, we'll reconvene after votes.
▶ 0:04:59Today, the rules committee is convening to consider seven measures. HR 1047, HR 3015, HR 3062, HR 4922, HR 5125, HR5140, and HR5143, HR 1047, the Grid Power Act, would provide grid operators across the nation with the authority to expedite the the consideration of critical power generation projects,
▶ 0:05:29heavy-handed regulations imposed under the Obama and Biden Harris administrations have smothered the electric grid and layer upon layer of bureaucratic lethargy. The extended backlog of power generation projects that's been created because of these heavy-handed regulations has yielded an electric grid that's less reliable, less secure, and more vulnerable. Power demand in the nation's on the rise.
▶ 0:05:54And to meet that demand, we must ensure the electric grid is up to snuff and that dispatchable power is abundant and not constrained. HR 3015, the National Coal Council Reestablishment Act would permanently reauthorize the na reauthorize the National Coal Council under the Department of Energy. The nation's coal industry makes significant contributions to the energy landscape here in the United States. It has long been the backbone of American energy independence.
▶ 0:06:25The Biden Harris administration terminated the charter for this long-standing council and Republicans will be the ones to restore the council alongside President Trump. HR 3062 the promoting crossborder energy infrastructure act enhances North American energy by streamlining the permitting process for projects that connect US energy resources with international markets.
▶ 0:06:51This legislation creates a statutory framework that aids the approval process for facilities managing the import and export of oil, natural gas and electricity transmission. It also provides the nation's energy developers the regulatory clarity they need while insulating critical infrastructure from all manner of politically oriented policy reversals.
▶ 0:07:14In short, this legislation is another example of a goodfaith effort to strengthen the security of American energy while reinforcing existing energy related partnerships that make our domestic economy strong.
▶ 0:07:29The four measures before us from the oversight committee, HR 5125, 5140, and 5143, serve to restore law and order in DC, address chronic juvenile crime, and expand the constitutional oversight of Congress over the district.
▶ 0:07:47I do anticipate we'll have a good thorough discussion of these bills in which we'll hear more about the policy prescriptions that can help restore law and order in DC and make this city safe again for its residents and visitors. I look forward to that testimony and discussion. With that, I look forward to today's discussion. I now yield to the ranking member, Mr. McGovern, for any comments he wishes to make.
▶ 0:08:10Well, thank you, Madam Chair, and um in knowing of um of uh your desire to get out of here by 6:15, um I promise that I will do everything I can to make sure we can be done by then. And I will be uncharacteristically brief um in my opening and in my in my questions. But the measures before ush this week are unfortunately more of the same from this Republican majority. policies that put the rich and the powerful special interests ahead of average Americans.
▶ 0:08:41Our economy is under real strain. Jobs are disappearing. Wages aren't keeping up. Layoffs are mounting. And families are struggling with prices that just don't seem to let up. Yet, instead of working together to ease those burdens, House Republicans are advancing bills that will undermine Washington DC's right to self-govern, as well as policies that hand out favors to big coal and big oil. You know, there's a lot of talk about how do we deal with crime in DC? Um, I I have a radical idea.
▶ 0:09:11Maybe we ought to pro uh stop preventing DC from spending its own money um and actually investing in policies to help alleviate poverty uh to provide young people with opportunities during the summer to to invest in people. Uh that's the way you prevent uh crime in DC and any other city or town in this country. But every community uh every American community deserves the ability to make decisions for itself. Every American family deserves an economy that works for them.
▶ 0:09:40But these bills move us in the opposite direction. Democrats are focused on lowering costs, protecting communities, and building a clean energy future. What we see here instead are proposals that risk dragging us backward, leaving leaving working families to shoulder the consequences while powerful interests benefit. So, I'm here to hear from our witnesses. I look forward to to today's discussion and I yield back my time.
▶ 0:10:04Thank you very much, Mr. McGovern. Without objection, any prepared statements that our witnesses may have will be included in the record. I now welcome our first panel, Representative LA and Representative Menendez from the Committee on Energy and Commerce. Your full statement will be submitted for the record. We ask you summarize your statement in five minutes or less.
▶ 0:10:25Representative La, I welcome your HR 1047, the grid power act.
▶ 0:10:51All three bills are aimed at unleashing our nation's abundant natural resources and establishing more efficient and modern processes for the delivery of affordable energy and grid reliability. HR 315, the National Co. Council Reestablishment Act sponsored by the gentleman from Ohio's sixth district would codify the national co-consel and ensure long-term certainty that the council can provide critical advice on the strong American industry.
▶ 0:11:20The National Code Council was established in 1984 as a non nonpartisan advisory committee made up of a diverse range of stakeholders and has prepared over 40 technical reports for the Secretary of Energy that have enhanced our federal government's understanding of this abundant energy source. Unfortunately, in 2021, the Biden administration decided to unilaterally disregard 37 years worth of guidance from the co-consul by refusing to provide a new charter.
▶ 0:11:48Even as the US is home to the largest co- reserves on Earth, co-industry employs hundreds of thousands of direct and indirect jobs with stable salaries and benefits and make up approximately 16% of our nation's electric generation. This is particularly important at a time when our nation is projected to see historic increases in electricity demand from data centers, powering AI models and reshoring of manufacturing facilities away from adversarial nations like communist China.
▶ 0:12:17If we do not expand our supply of base load generating resources, these historic in historic increases in demand will and continue putting upward pressure on prices for household and businesses across our country. HR3015 will support the Trump administration's recent decision to restart the co-consel and will ensure that it cannot be disbanded at the beha behalf of leftleaning environmental groups.
▶ 0:12:43HR 3062 is introduced by the general lady from North Dakota would establish a statutory process to authorize the construction, connection, operation and maintenance of international border crossing facilities for the import and export of oil and natural gas and the transmission of electricity. The North American energy market is large integrated system due to the significant trade of oil, gas and electricity between the United States, Canada and Mexico.
▶ 0:13:12In fact, in 2024, the value of energy trade between the United States and our four and our North American uh partners exceeded over$1 trillion dollars. It is imperative the United States has a consistent permitting process for the development of crossber infrastructure. Congress has not asserted its authority to establish statutory procedures for permitting crossber energy infrastructure.
▶ 0:13:35In the absence of of a statutoily directed process, agencies have evaluated crossber infrastructure within the context of a myriad of executive orders. Under these executive orders, the secretary of state has theor authority to issue presidential permits for crossber liquid pipelines, the federal energy regulatory commission for for natural gas pipelines and the department of energy DOE for crossber electric transmission facilities.
▶ 0:14:02This scheme has allowed for unilateral denial of otherwise permitted projects subjecting critical infrastructure development to the political whims of the executive branch. HR 3062 would remedy this by removing the presidential permit requirement and authorizing FK to review applications for crossber oil and natural gas pipelines and DOE to review applications for crossber transmission facilities.
▶ 0:14:28As energy demand grows, it is important that a consistent statutoily directed process is in place to allow the efficient permitting of infrastructure and to lower prices for consumers. HR 1047 sponsored by the gentleman from Ohio's 12th district provide grid operators with additional tools to address grid reliability challenges by allowing the prioritization of generating resources that provide reli reliability and resilience benefits to the bulk power system.
▶ 0:14:59As you read in the bill, you can see it is it is fuel neutral. No fuel sources are mentioned throughout the text. Instead, the focus of the bill was on prioritizing resources that provide the essential reliability services that are necessary to keep the lights on. Over the last few years, we've seen interconnection cues explode with wind and solar resources because of excessive subsidies and federal and state policies that attack base load generating units.
▶ 0:15:28These delays raise pro project costs and could keep electricity prices high by limiting the amount of supply needed to power the grid. Throughout the 119th Congress, the Energy Subcommittee of Energy and Commerce has held several hearings to hear directly from grid operators, engineers, and those charged with maintaining grid reliability. What we heard is that supply is not keeping pace with the demand and that premature retirements of base load generation is causing a reliability crisis.
▶ 0:15:58This legislation is an important step to rebalance the nation's bulk power system to fuel next generation industries while lowering electricity costs for hardworking households and businesses. I urge all my colleagues to join me in supporting HR 3015, HR 3062, and HR 1047. and I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today and I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:16:24Representative Menendez, you're
▶ 0:16:27Thank you, Chairwoman Fox and Ranking Member McGovern and all the members of the rules committee. Just a few months after reconciliation, which will jeopardize electric reliability and drastically increase electricity prices, Republicans are doubling down on their plan to make energy more expensive, less reliable, and dirtier for American families. Before we get to what Republicans want to do this week, let's talk about what they did this summer.
▶ 0:16:51The reconciliation bill will prevent over 300 gawatts of power from coming on the grid at a time when everyone says that we need more energy on the grid. To put that in perspective, that's 23 times the amount of electricity generation capacity in New Jersey. These next few years, if your lights flicker, if your air conditioning goes out in the summer or heating goes out in the winter, that's Republicans faults. Madam Chair, Republicans will have to own that. This law will make utilities widely more expensive for Americans.
▶ 0:17:21One forecast found that families energy bills could increase by nearly $300 each year. $300 to make your electricity less reliable and dirtier. One letter that said that the House version of the bill quote amounts to the single largest nationwide utility bill increase in American history end quote. American families and businesses will spend $52 billion more on energy over a decade. Doesn't sound like a very good deal to me. Of course, the president hasn't stopped there.
▶ 0:17:51In the last few weeks, he's canled three different offshore wind projects that were going to provide stability and clean megawws to our nation's grid. New England's grid operator, which was counting on those projects, now says that New England could face a higher risk of blackouts explicitly because of President Trump's actions. It's a real shame that Republicans have engaged in a full-on war against clean energy. Clean energy is the fastest growing source of energy in the country, but they want to kill every project they can.
▶ 0:18:21It's going to put us behind in competing with China for new technologies. It's also going to devastate our fight against climate change. But clearly, Republicans still think climate change is a myth. Otherwise, they would never have passed This bill guts the progress we've made. It will see emissions decreases stall out this decade and will increase annual greenhouse gas emissions by nearly half a billion tons. It's a complete disaster. Republicans have broken our energy system.
▶ 0:18:49Surely, they must have ideas for what they want to do, not just roll back the progress made during the Biden administration. But that's not the case. These bills are about relitigating fights from a decade ago. We're fighting the energy battles of 2010, not the 2020s or 2030s. HR 1047 would allow grid operators to prioritize fossil fuel power plants over wind, solar, and batteries.
▶ 0:19:15Republicans don't like the fact that solar and batteries are the quickest types of energy to build. So, they want to cheat and make it harder to connect them to the grid. This bill won't make our grid more reliable, but it will remove requirements that anytime grid operators meddle with power plant cues, those cho changes be just and reasonable. HR 3015 would bring back the National Coal Council.
▶ 0:19:39I know we've had a lot going on in this Congress, but in case you were not aware, President Trump and Secretary Wright already did that. Instead of putting forward something useful, Republicans would rather use floor time on legislating something that's already happened. They've added a coal subsidy to reconciliation to pad the profits of fossil fuel companies that export this coal to China so they can manufacture steel to power their economy.
▶ 0:20:03Secretary Wright has ordered two fossil fuel fired power plants to stay open even though they were old, expensive, and unnecessary. And now the people of Michigan who are going to save $600 million when one of those coal plants shut down are now going to lose that money. An HR 3062 is designed to explicitly to help the Keystone XL pipeline, a pipeline that has been dead for 4 years and is never going to be built.
▶ 0:20:30Not in the least, because Donald Trump's tariffs have completely destroyed any desire from Canadians to send energy to the United States. These bills are a symptom of a group of people that has zero ideas about how to actually help Americans with their lives or their power bills. They represent the fact that Republicans want to bring us back to an energy system of the 19th century. It's a shame that Americans are going to have to pay for it. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yield back.
▶ 0:20:57Thank you, Mr. Menendez. I I'm going to uh skip over myself for asking any questions. So, Miss Fishbach, I'll recognize you.
▶ 0:21:06Thank you, Madam Chair. And I I don't have any questions. I just want to say thank you both for being here. And I really appreciate HR 3062 since I also border Canada and I think that uh Mrs. Forech put together a great bill and so I'm excited about it. Um and with that I yield back.
▶ 0:21:22Thank you Mr. McGover you recognized.
▶ 0:21:24Thank you. I just have one question Mr. Mendez. Um I want to focus on HR 315 the quote national coal council reestablishment act. Um because I'll admit uh it it this one befuddles me. Um Mr. Menendez, does solar energy, wind energy, hydropower, batteries, or any renewable source of energy have a separate advisory council at the Department of Energy?
▶ 0:21:48It does not. They do not.
▶ 0:21:50And this bill establishes a coal council that has already been restarted by the administration. So why does the coal industry need such special treatment? Well, it's clear that the administration is going to do whatever it can to to pick winners and losers and in this case uh prop back up the the coal community here in the United States.
▶ 0:22:08Um there are 28 advisory councils and this is the only one that they seek to give legislative authority to which I think represents the the broader issue with all of these bills and what we saw in reconciliation which is that the Republicans in the administration uh want to prioritize and give preferential treatment to certain types of energy in this country.
▶ 0:22:29Thank you and thanks for both of you for being here. I yield back. Gentlemen y gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. really don't have any questions. I appreciate y'all coming and putting this before us. I think it's a good bill. South Carolina's got a energy crisis with all the companies we have, particularly I a companies that are leave moving there. But I think this expedite it and appreciate your work. Yield back.
▶ 0:22:55Gentleman yields back now recognizing the gentle lady from Pennsylvania, Miss Scandlin, for her time question.
▶ 0:23:02Thank you, Mr. Chair. I I am troubled by the energy agenda being pushed in these bills and and by the administration. We should be pursuing energy policies that develop all kinds of energy and that ensure that our electrical grid can handle future energy demands which as noted are increasing exponentially with AI.
▶ 0:23:22But here it seems like we keep doubling down on corporate welfare, offering bill after bill to promote expensive and climate damaging fossil fuels while at the same time blocking all sustainable energy development. I mean, whatever happened to the all of the above energy policy? Um, Mr. Manendez, you you outlined some of the things that have happened in the last few months to block or terminate sustainable energy projects that were already underway.
▶ 0:23:49Um, can you just tell us a little bit about how the termination of the IRA tax credits in the big ugly bill that passed this summer um is going to lead to higher utility costs?
▶ 0:24:01Sure. So, a lot of those project sponsors who were relying on those tax credits and uh building out their plan and thinking about how they're going to invest capital um we're already in the pro process of seeing those projects hit the ground. And so now the the projects fundamentally changed because the administration's walking back a lot of the progress that we made in the last Congress with the prior administration on clean renewable energy. So if those projects don't come online, we're losing access to energy production that's right there for the taking.
▶ 0:24:31Um we've seen in in states like Texas, so not a blue state, but over 30% of their energy production comes from solar and wind. And we're seeing the prices in Texas for consumers go down. So, if that was a nationwide strategy that this administration and this Congress and the Republican majority saw through, we would see greater um production, a greater mix of energy production, and we would eventually see lower costs for all Americans.
▶ 0:24:58This is taking us in a very different direction where some of the the plants that we're going to keep online are more expensive to maintain and operate and we're we're putting one arm behind our back in the energy production fight. China's not doing that, right? But here in America, we are. It's going to make us weaker and it's going to make energy prices more expensive for all Americans.
▶ 0:25:18Yeah. And I am hearing a lot about increasing energy costs from from my constituents. I know energy costs are up about 15% across the country. It's higher in the Northeast. And in fact, in one of in my district, we have one of those older obsolete um fossil fuel plants that was scheduled to go offline, but now the administration has said that it has to keep operating even though it's incredibly expensive and inefficient to do so. So, thank you for your testimony.
▶ 0:25:44If I could just pick up on one thing that you mentioned earlier real quick, is when a lot of this forecast was happening, it was predated the uh robust growth in AI data centers. Now, we know that's a reality. So I instead of having a holistic approach and all the above strategy that's going to deal with the increased energy demand because of these AI data centers and how do we prevent the cost from being shifted to our residents and our constituents and the consumer. We're not tackling that issue.
▶ 0:26:11But that's the exact type of conversation we should be having if we're thinking holistically about energy production and demand.
▶ 0:26:17Yeah. And I know uh you and many of our colleagues would love to have that bipartisan conversation and we would welcome it. Thank you. I yield back. Gentle lady is back now. Recognized gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott.
▶ 0:26:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Mr. Lada, according to Reuters News, China hit a 10-year high in coal power construction in 2024. Is that is that your
▶ 0:26:41Could you repeat that again, please?
▶ 0:26:43According to Reuters, China hit a 10-year high in coal power construction. Is that
▶ 0:26:48That is correct. it. Um I'm I'm glad we're doing this bill. We we we need reliable energy in this country. I wish we could do more nuclear. I hope that we get to the point that we're able to do more nuclear, but uh I I I don't have any any real questions. I think it's
▶ 0:27:09something expand because what we're seeing is that communist China, you're looking at about 95 gigawatts that they they're looking at that they talked about getting online starting in 2024. And so they they're they're expanding as we're retiring our co-fire plants, excuse me, our co-fire plants. They're uh they're expanding. So when we're retracting, they're expanding. So it's important for us to look at what's happening out there is that we have to have more power.
▶ 0:27:37We had a hearing our regional transmission organiz organizations and also our ISOs were before us and they all said the same thing. We have to have more power. And at the same time every one of them said the same thing. You cannot retire anything offline right now because especially with the data centers coming
▶ 0:27:57that we're seeing this massive growth. We saw it was estimated between four and a half to 6% last year up maybe up 10%. It's just going to keep going exponentially. So the data centers are consuming a lot of power out there. And if we don't if we don't respond to that, we're not going to have the power. But that's why it's important to hear what they those folks out there are saying is that you can't make these retirements. And so that's why it's important that we we keep what we have out there right
▶ 0:28:23Just out of curiosity, what percentage of the solar panels that uh are bought and used in America or manufactured in China. Do you know?
▶ 0:28:36Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'd have to go back and double check that. is, you know, our our large we have the largest manufacturer solar panels is in my home county in Wood County in northwest Ohio, but they're, you know, they're national and global, which is and so first solar, but you know, they're in competition with a massive amount of communist Chinese, which we saw also in the last administration when they were allowing the these panels to come in.
▶ 0:29:03The price of energy is embedded in everything that we uh consume in this country. It's embedded in our groceries. It's embedded in um everything that we purchase in in this country. And I just uh you know, I I believe that our enemies like the Chinese, you know, are the ones that fund uh an environmental the environmental movement in the United States that is not rooted in the facts. And so with that, I I'll yield.
▶ 0:29:31Gentleman yields now recognized the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Noose for his time of question.
▶ 0:29:36Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Lada and Mr. Menendez for being here and for your testimony. Mr. Lada, I want to drill down on something that I believe the ranking member alluded to earlier, which is, you know, the the impetus or the necessity for this legislation. So, my understanding is the Trump has already reestablished the National Coal Council. They did so in June of this year. Is that right?
▶ 0:30:07Uh what we're looking at trying to do here is get it in statutory language.
▶ 0:30:13Sure. So am I did they not reestablish it or is it
▶ 0:30:18I believe that's correct.
▶ 0:30:20Okay. So Trump administration in June of this year reestablished the National Coal Council and your argument is that you'd like to have statutory authorization for this coal council that the Trump administration uh has restarted. Is that a fair assessment of your Okay.
▶ 0:30:38And how important a priority is this? I mean you I think would you describe this as something that urgently needs to be done that needs to be done with expediency or
▶ 0:30:49Well thank you for the question. You know it's important because again as I mentioned um to the uh pre previous question uh what we're seeing happen in this country is that we have to have more power. There's no question about I I've asked everybody in the energy and commerce this committee when they come before us in the energy subcommittee, do we have to have more power or less power produced? Everybody's agreed that we need to have more power.
▶ 0:31:15So would it be fair to say that you believe it's really important that this national coal council get up and
▶ 0:31:20Well, it needs to be because again can I ask you a question on that first?
▶ 0:31:23Yeah, go ahead.
▶ 0:31:24So Trump established this council, reestablished it in June. Who's the chair of the council? Do you know?
▶ 0:31:30You know, I'm sorry I don't. There is no chair. I went on the website this morning, couldn't find one. Do you know who serves on the council?
▶ 0:31:38You know, uh, at the right off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you.
▶ 0:31:41Well, you know what? I wouldn't be able to tell you either because there are no members who serve on the council. No members have been appointed since the Trump administration established this commission or reestablished this coal council nearly four months ago. They haven't bothered to name one member or name a chair of the council notwithstanding the urgency that you described that this issue merits. Um, do you know how many times they've met since June?
▶ 0:32:07I think you're going to tell me probably they haven't met at all since there's not a council. But
▶ 0:32:12you are right, sir. Council, coalition, commission, whatever you want to call it. This new entity that the Trump administration has reestablished as an urgent priority to boost coal production has not met once since this allimportant executive order that was issued in June. They have not named any members. They have not named a chair.
▶ 0:32:30For anybody who's curious about this, go online, go on Google National Coal Council or or Commission and you will find nothing but coming soon attractions on every page of the council. They don't have any future meetings scheduled. It just again just says coming soon on their website. You could understand Mr.
▶ 0:32:52a lot of my uh my indignation here and I I think you know indignation frankly from a lot of Americans who would say if this is such an important priority right why are we spending time considering before the rules committee a bill to codify a council when in fact that isn't necessary the council could do its business today and of course even more ridiculous under the circumstances given that this council
▶ 0:33:23has not begun to do any work whatsoever. I mean, why why reestablish it?
▶ 0:33:29Do you know when they're going to meet
▶ 0:33:31If I if I may. Sure.
▶ 0:33:33Again, it's important that this is done statutoily because because as I mentioned a little bit earlier,
▶ 0:33:39we're we're in a race right now. No, I hear you.
▶ 0:33:41And the race that we're in is with Communist China
▶ 0:33:45and Communist China is not waiting. And you know, when you're looking at probably over a hundred co-fire plants coming online in the future over there, when you think about what they're doing on all on all their energy sources, but they're they're putting a big emphasis especially on the um on coal.
▶ 0:34:02But why but why pass a bill to create a
▶ 0:34:04Well, because I think that is never going to meet. But again, it's important that we have it in the statute that we have make sure that we have the folks on this council that move forward with it because, you know, we're looking across this country and it was mentioned a little bit earlier about uh certain regions of the country. You know, you look up uh in not on on the coal side, but you look on the New England states when the governor's up there saying that they're the people up there are paying 40% more and they're looking at pipelines. Mr.
▶ 0:34:31This is this is where we fall back. I hear you. I I want to and I want to give you ample time look for all the above energy strategy. Again, we're not we're not talking about the merits here. I'm
▶ 0:34:41We can have a debate. I think you had that debate previously about the merits. I'm simply saying I don't understand the rationale of spending time passing a bill to create a council when that council already exists and when they refuse to meet now as it is. I mean, if we pass this bill, are you saying that now they will magically start meeting that the Department of Energy is going to decide to appoint a chair? They could appoint one today. The council could meet tomorrow. They could update their website.
▶ 0:35:07I suspect they probably will after now this uh uh this exchange here that, you know, perhaps there's some folks at the Department of Energy who've realized that lo and behold, this really important coal council that they've decided uh is integral to the future of the country hasn't bothered to do anything. They haven't even bothered to update the website. I suspect they're going to change that. But in any event, I that's my only point, Mr. Lada. It's not I I I mean, they clearly don't share your sense of urgency. You'd agree with that, right? Otherwise, they'd be
▶ 0:35:36Well, you know, and again, you know, the United States has estimated that we have the largest amount of co-reserves in the
▶ 0:35:42So, why don't they meet?
▶ 0:35:43Well, again, I think it's important that we do it in statute and get it.
▶ 0:35:46They don't need it. They can meet now.
▶ 0:35:48So, that's why I think we ought to get the bill passed.
▶ 0:35:50Okay. Okay. Well, I appreciate it, Mr. a lot and I appreciate the chair's indulgence, but I think if if uh if pressed, the chair might concede uh that uh that this is an a salient point that there's no reason for us to be spending our time. I mean, at a minimum, if you're going to make the case to your colleagues in the House that this is an urgent priority, somebody's got to call someone over the Department of Energy and tell them, "Hey, you know what?
▶ 0:36:13maybe update the website and uh appoint a few members and act like you're doing some work so that we can convince our colleagues that this is a council worth supporting and ultimately enshrining into statute. But anyway, I'm I'm not in charge here. So, uh I defer I'll yield back to the chair. I thank Mr. L. Mr. M.
▶ 0:36:30Gentleman yields back. Chairman now recognizes himself for his time of questioning. Mr. Chairman, uh, are you are you trying to tell us that you think that the administration would be more emboldened to appoint people to this if in fact it were a part of the legislation as opposed to just being something that they think is important, but also that Congress thinks it's
▶ 0:36:49I believe that's correct, M. And would you further agree that some of the people who are doing vetting within the White House are probably concerned about getting judges appointed and confirmed by the United States Senate, other highranking government officials, both appointed and then confirmed by the United States Senate, including US attorneys, marshals, etc., and that they may have been focused on that as opposed to filling the uh the coal council even though they consider it to be important.
▶ 0:37:16I agree with that statement. And isn't it accurate that the Senate uh particularly members on the other side of the aisle have been uh slow in in bringing or helping to bring those matters to the four and as a result the Senate has changed its rules slightly in order to bring about a quicker confirmation process of appointees by the administration.
▶ 0:37:39I agree with that and I believe that the that's what the majority leader over there is doing is trying to get that
▶ 0:37:45All right. And um it it always it always strikes me as fascinating and it's become a part of my stump speech and I don't I don't want to take up too much time because I know we're hurrying but electric rates going up the electric rates are going up based on policies that have already been passed and now they're going to say that the electric rates are going to go up because of Republican policies.
▶ 0:38:04But isn't it fair to say that electric rates are going up because of the war on coal and both the Obama and the Biden administration and the stranding of assets, which is sometimes hard to explain, but when you're shutting plants down before their life expectancy is up, that's an asset that no longer uh is being utilized and yet the rateayer still has to pay for it. Isn't that correct?
▶ 0:38:24That's correct. And in fact, I would say to the gentleman that I have in my own district a Virginia city plant run by Virginia Virginia uh power um or Dominion Power, excuse me, uh that was opened up in 2012. I was at at the ribbon cutting with a 50 to 70 year life expectancy. And yet some want to see that shut down as early as 2035 or 2040 under coal policy in this country. And that's not reflecting at all what the Chinese are doing. They're not stranding anything.
▶ 0:38:52They're building more coal as I think you said earlier. Isn't that
▶ 0:38:55That's correct.
▶ 0:38:56But when you strand those assets, you're paying for both the new renewables, which I'm I'm okay with, and the coal, but but in other parts of the world, they're not stranding their assets. They're using those assets till they're till they're gone. Isn't that correct?
▶ 0:39:08That's absolutely correct.
▶ 0:39:09And I would have to agree with the gentleman from Georgia that I also in support of nuclear. And I I don't have any problem. In fact, helped get some funding for a solar plant in my district. I'm for all of the above, but but you you can't say that the policies we're passing today have caused the rates to go up and are going to cause the rates to go up more when in fact we are uh as somebody said earlier, we are actually tying our hands behind our backs by not utilizing our coal.
▶ 0:39:36And uh for the comment that we're exporting uh coal to China, we don't export uh coal to China out of my district currently, but we used to because in Buck Cannon, I learned this this year in Buck Cannon, Virginia. It's a county, we have the most volatile coal in the world, which means it burns hotter. It creates more energy than any other coal in the world. And somebody is going to use that coal to make steel. Wouldn't it be a lot better if we made that here in the United States?
▶ 0:40:02Because right now the rules and regulations imposed on us by prior administrations have caused us to have a problem with producing steel in this country because of regulations and we have an abundance. My my coal miners and my coal companies would be happy to sell to uh US manufacturer steel and yet we're not allowed to. Would you agree that that's pretty much the center of most Americans that we ought to be using our our natural resources for our economies? You would agree with that?
▶ 0:40:32Absolutely.
▶ 0:40:33All right. I appreciate that. I tried to do it as fast as I could. Uh Mr. McGovern and I yield back and see.
▶ 0:40:39Can I just as one question of does is is Senate confirmation required um on this uh coal council.
▶ 0:40:49Let me let me let me answer that because I'm the one that raised that. The answer is Senate confirmation is not required. But many times in most administrations, the people who are vetting the people to go on the various councils, okay, are involved in the process, whether it be one that has that require Senate confirmation or that does not.
▶ 0:41:05And if you're utilizing your assets to try to get judges, US marshals, uh, US attorneys, etc., etc., etc., etc., approved and cabinet u assistants, deputy secretaries, etc., that you often times will focus more on that than you do on one that doesn't necessarily require that. I grant your point though. It is valid.
▶ 0:41:24Clarifying that there's no Senate confirmation required, but I thank you. Yield back. Right.
▶ 0:41:28Gentleman yields back. I yield back. And that concludes the testimony from these witnesses. We do appreciate you all being here.
▶ 0:41:35And as always, thank you.
▶ 0:41:40All right, we're going to suspend for a minute or two so y'all can get out and the next crew can come in.
▶ 0:42:49right. And now welcome our second our second panel, Representative Higgins and Ranking Member Garcia from the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Your full statement will be submitted for the record and we ask that you summarize your statement in five minutes. Representative Higgins, you are first and I welcome your testimony. I thank the chair and I thank the ranking member and the members of the rules committee and my my colleague the ranking member of the oversight Thank you for having us here today. Okay.
▶ 0:43:17I urge the rules committee to grant a prompt rule for the House's consideration of HR4922, the DC Crimes Act, HR5143, the District of Columbia Policing Protection Act, HR 5140, the District of Columbia Juvenile Sentencing Reform Act, and HR 5125, the District of Columbia Judicial Nominations Reform Act.
▶ 0:43:45Crime in the District of Columbia has recently reached levels unseen since the violent era of the early 1990s. Juvenile crime has reportedly more than doubled the national average as of February 2024.
▶ 0:44:03The DC Attorney General and DC Council's policies have created an environment of school absences and offenders to be released, allowing juvenile crime and violent crime to flourish.
▶ 0:44:19Further, recent anti-law enforcement rhetoric and highly restrictive policing laws from the DC council have created retention and recruitment challenges for the Metropolitan Police Department.
▶ 0:44:34President Trump in response made sweeping moves to bring federal law enforcement resources into the district and exercise existing authorities under the Home Rule Act to direct law enforcement to combat the crime crisis. Like President Trump, House Republicans are committed to restoring law and order in our nation's capital.
▶ 0:44:58The home rule act which was signed into law in 1973 provides a charter for the local government of District of Columbia granting a degree of self-governance to DC officials recognize that authority and including the authority to legislate conduct elections and otherwise govern local municipal affairs.
▶ 0:45:22Under the Home Rule Act, Congress retains its constitutional authority to enact legislation for DC on any subject, including legislation to amend or repeal any law enforce prior to or after enactment of that law and any act passed by the DC Council.
▶ 0:45:44Last week, the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform considered several pieces of legislation to reinforce President Trump's efforts to make DC safe again. to DC Crimes Act overturns targeted portions of the DC Council's Youth Rehabilitation Act by amending the definition of a youth offender from a person under the age of 25 to a
▶ 0:46:14person under the age of 18. This bill requires that we treat adult criminals as adults like the rest of the country. The bill also rec requires a DC attorney general to create a publicly available website that better tracks juvenile crime data.
▶ 0:46:34This data will inform Congress, the district's elected officials, the Metropolitan Police Department, the public, and others regarding the severity of juvenile crime in the city. the District of Columbia Policing Protection Act, the legislation that I introduced, amends Title S of the Comprehensive Policing and Justice Reform Amendment Act of 2022 and replaces it with policies empowering police
▶ 0:47:05pursuit of a vehicle fleeing the the District of Columbia Juvenile Sentencing Reform Act, lowers the age that juveniles can be tried for certain violent crimes as adults to 14 years old. For example, such violent crimes include murder, firstdegree sexual abuse, burglary in the first degree, and robbery while armed.
▶ 0:47:35And lastly, HR5125, the District of Columbia Judicial Nominations Reform Act, aligns the appointment of DC judges with the constitutional process for appointing members of the federal judiciary. This bill preserves the president's authority to nominate with the advice and consent of the United States Senate anyone deemed appropriate to sit upon the DC court.
▶ 0:48:03Every resident and visitor deserves to feel safe in our nation's capital, and Congress should continue to fulfill its constitutional duty to oversee district affairs and make DC safe again by considering these bills. We step in that direction. Again, I ask the rules committee to grant a prompt rule for the House's consideration of this legislation, and I welcome the committee's questions. gentleman yields back.
▶ 0:48:33Appreciate that. And now recognize ranking member Garcia for your opening
▶ 0:48:39Thank you, Mr. Chair, and of course to all the members of the rules committee. And I do want to thank, of course, Representative Higgins, who also of course uh chairs one of our subcommittees and appreciate um his work. So, I think today we're going to be looking at uh four different pieces of legislation uh which quite frankly all four are a direct attack to the governance of the district in Washington DC which of course we know is also an American city of over 700,000 residents.
▶ 0:49:08You know, DC has more residents than two states. DC taxpayers pay federal taxes more per capita than any other state. And DC as a whole contributes more total federal taxes than 12 states. It pays more in total federal income tax than 19 other states. And more than 8,000 DC residents currently serve in the military and can be sent to war to fight for our country and our values. But they of course do not have full representation.
▶ 0:49:36Now DC is not a state and we're certainly not debating statehood here today, which of course I a lot of us and personally I certainly do believe in. But we do know that while the Constitution created Washington DC as a federal district, the founding fathers always wanted self-governance for DC. Madison wrote that the Constitution meant for DC and what it meant even before it was ratified in 1788.
▶ 0:49:58He wrote, and I just want to I want to quote, "A municipal legislature for local purposes derived from their own suffrages will of course be allowed." Now, of course, DC should have self-government. I hope that's something we could all agree on. And that's what certainly democracy means and that's how our system works best. DC's government is and should be held accountable to the people who live here and local leaders should be empowered to solve problems without Congress interfering. I've said this many times now.
▶ 0:50:28If folks wanted to get involved in city politics or if the president wants to run the district, he should resign from the presidency and resign for run for mayor. Folks can run for city council if they want to get involved in local government. I was a council member back in my hometown. I was a mayor of my city for eight years. It is a great job and I know that we all claim to love local government and we know that local government can do great things.
▶ 0:50:54But we shouldn't sit here in Congress and pretend we are a super city council lording over residents who reject the proposals that we put in place. Now today the majority is proposing four bills which we believe as Democrats on the committee attack DC's right to self-governance.
▶ 0:51:11now and we know DC of course is a unique city and we all want it to be safe and by the way in the last few years the city of DC and the district has actually become safer and the crime rate has actually decreased over the last few years these four bills move the district in the wrong direction and I want to briefly touch on on all the first is is 5125 the judicial nominations reform act that would eliminate DC's judicial nomination commission and give the president sole power to choose local judges this is crazy.
▶ 0:51:42Right now there is a commission right now made up of appointees which include an appointee of the president that actually go through the judges and they present to the president options for This would bypass that entire process and allow the president of the United States to directly appoint judges who are involved in municipal affairs for the city.
▶ 0:52:07It is wrong and maybe one of the most egregious bills that the majority is presented in this package of bills. HR 4922, the DC Crimes Act, removes judges discretion in sentencing young adults. This bill would essentially ban judges from waving mandatory minimums for young In DC courts, adults are not treated like children. This bill applies to young adults who are prosecuted as adults by the US attorney.
▶ 0:52:34And essentially the bill removes flexibility for judges to work with those in front of the court that would actually hurt public safety. Moving this forward would not make DC safer. And it's interesting, you know, the sponsor of this bill is from Florida and Florida has the same right now policies that DC adopted. Yet the author is not pushing these changes in his home state. And so I would hope that we would leave the district alone.
▶ 0:53:05Now, the next bill that we're discussing is HR5140, the Juvenile Sentencing Reform Act. Again, incredibly horrendous in my opinion. This would let children as young as 14 be tried as adults and sent to adult prison. The science is clear. Putting kids in adult prisons increases reoffending and deepens racial disparities.
▶ 0:53:28More than 90% of DC youth who are involved and who are before our courts n more than 90% are black black children and this bill would make things worse not safer. We should not be treating 14y olds as adults. Then we have HR5143 the policing protection act which would overturn DC's rules on high-speed police chases. Now we know that DC is a dense community.
▶ 0:53:55It is actually one of the most walkable cities in the United And this new law essentially allows police officers discretion to begin high-speed chases in neighborhoods and without consideration if it's actually necessary at that moment.
▶ 0:54:14And just so everyone on the rules committee is aware, if you look at high-speed chases across the country and certainly here locally, half of the people that are injured in highspeed chases are pedestrians are people that are actually not involved in the high-speed chase. So we should be allowing DC to create its own policies for transportation systems. And so just to conclude, we oppose all these bills. These bills are opposed by DC residents, by the mayor, by the council. We should reject them.
▶ 0:54:43We should allow DC to govern itself. And with that, I thank uh my friend of the majority and certainly want to thank the rules committee. Thank you.
▶ 0:54:51All right, the gentleman yields back. Now recognizes the gentle lady, Miss Fishbach for her time for questions.
▶ 0:54:57She has no questions and waves. Recognizes the ranking member, Mr.
▶ 0:55:02I just have a few brief questions. Uh Mr. Higgins, did the oversight committee hold a hearing this Congress on any of the bills before us today? to the gentleman's question regarding hearings and I've been on the oversight committee for years. We've had many hearings regarding crime and DC. So,
▶ 0:55:22but on these bills,
▶ 0:55:23I would say the answer to the gentleman's question is yes.
▶ 0:55:26We've had many hearings through the years. Maybe you weren't there, but I
▶ 0:55:30Well, I I looked over this I as this Congress um uh the hearings you've held. I I did not see a record of you holding hearings on any of these bills. The body of work of the oversight committee, respectfully to the to the gentleman, is is replete with hearings on crime and the impact of liberal policies in DC. Warnings, my specific warnings to the to the council
▶ 0:55:55that if they if they ventured down that
▶ 0:55:59there would there would be an increase in violent crime. And I was right.
▶ 0:56:03Uh well, okay. So, you're not answering the question, but anyway, um, is the oversight committee holding a hearing on Thursday with DC Mayor Muriel Bowser, DC Council Chair Phil Mendelson, and DC Attorney General Brian Schwab?
▶ 0:56:19That's my understanding was scheduled.
▶ 0:56:21So, I guess the question is, why didn't the oversight committee hold a hearing with those DC officials before marking up these bills and and bringing it to the rules committee, then bringing it to the floor? um that that make significant changes to DC law when you're going to have you know all the leadership up here on Thursday.
▶ 0:56:41Well, the the many hearings that we have conducted participated in on the oversight committee with DC officials through the years certainly before this legislation had been brought to the House floor.
▶ 0:56:54Mr. Garcia did
▶ 0:56:56if you're going to discount everything prior to January this year. No, but but I I do think
▶ 0:57:01I suppose you have the right to do that.
▶ 0:57:03No, I I'm not discounting I but I do think that uh it is not unusual. In fact, it's kind of normal procedure that every Congress is unique and that we bring bills uh that we that we intend to bring to the floor. We do hearings because I'm I'm sure that the oversight committee membership has changed over the years. I mean, I know you're not the ranking member. I mean, you weren't in the last Congress. So um I do think there are new people and they have um unique perspectives and so it's what I'm
▶ 0:57:30Yes sir. I would I would concur with that. Okay.
▶ 0:57:33Let me just say respectfully that this is a topic that has been visited many many times through the years on oversight and other committees.
▶ 0:57:42Mr. Garcia, do DC Mayor Muriel Bowser, the 13 DC council members, and DC Attorney General Brian Schwab, who are DC's top elected officials, support or oppose these bills?
▶ 0:57:57They they oppose the bills.
▶ 0:57:58And I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record letters opposing these bills from Mayor Bowser, 13 council members, and the attorney general.
▶ 0:58:06Without objection.
▶ 0:58:07And just the final thing I want to say, um, you know, I'm from Massachusetts, you're from Louisiana, you're from California. I mean, we we're all from different states here, but none of us are from DC. Uh, and you know, I I I really think it is probably a better approach to dealing with DC's challenges to work with and rely on the expertise of the local elected officials who were elected by people who live here.
▶ 0:58:34Uh, and I, you know, and and because I, I do think that the pro the solutions to crime in DC, uh, are a little bit more complicated than incarcerating 14-year-olds. Um, and, um, you know, and again, as I said earlier, my opening statement, uh, you know, we should let DC spend its money appropri appropriately as it sees fit.
▶ 0:58:58um you know in a ways that are actually prevent uh the conditions that we all you know want to see improve but uh uh but in any event I appreciate you being here and I yield back.
▶ 0:59:10Gentleman yields back back now recognize Mr. Norman for his time.
▶ 0:59:14Thank thank both of you for coming. Uh Congressman Higgins, you you got a history of I mean you got a long u history of service in law enforcement. you a captain and you know you know you've seen crime at its worst and it at its highest.
▶ 0:59:31Um and I looked at the statistics in DC you know as it compares to New York you have 644 violent crimes rapes uh per 100,000 644 and New York's got 186 per thousand uh is it working in DC crime prevention or is the lack what what's your your take as being a veteran of the police force?
▶ 1:00:05sir, we had very respectfully warned the District uh of Columbia council, the city council that they that that if they enacted the laws that they shared with us years ago, they intended to do that violent crime would go up and that a big part of that would be juvenile crime and that indeed is is the case.
▶ 1:00:33I believe the the percentage is something along the lines of 52% of uh the category of of crimes carjacking arrest were juveniles. 52% of robberies and carjackings were juvenile. It's way way up.
▶ 1:00:51So when you create an where where juveniles are not going to be arrested, you're actually condemning that that strata of our society. your 14, 15, 16 year olds um to they're much more likely to participate in crime if there's no there's no accountability there that they that they're not they don't have a shot to be tried as an adult.
▶ 1:01:20And the gentleman mentioned imprisonment. Juveniles are not imprisoned in adult jails. They're not in prison. We have to keep them separate. You understand? They'll be transferred if they're incarcerated. they're tried as an adult. They're still sit they're separated as as juveniles from the adult population. So there's never a circumstance where juveniles are incarcerated with adults.
▶ 1:01:48Um but if you if you want to prevent crimes and and create an environment where where crime rates will be reduced violent and property crimes, then you you have to have um you have to have law enforcement empowered to do their job and you have to have accountability in my experience is that these the the types of laws, well-intended
▶ 1:02:18though they be that you find in in in liberals run cities, they generally lead to increased crime. So you know, we have an obligation to do something about it where we're able. And the only municipality in the country where Congress has authority is is DC, the nation's capital. So, we're doing what we can where we can.
▶ 1:02:47I think DC in 25 or 22 got 7.5 billion from the federal government.
▶ 1:02:56I'll take your word for it. I know it was it's a lot. It's a it's a massive budget. the I think the the district and the DC district attorney I'm going by memory here so correct me if I'm wrong but I believe his budget is equivalent to some state attorney
▶ 1:03:19I know we withheld some because we're so frustrated with a lot of things the minister that Bowser and her council were doing now on the going through before you chase a suspect Mr. Garcia mentioned this. You have to go through I read 14 uh I guess 14
▶ 1:03:40in DC.
▶ 1:03:41In DC.
▶ 1:03:42Yeah. They established like this matrix of considerations that that I guess look good on paper to people that have never worked the street but in reality that means that there'd be no pursuits. And if if that was their goal to to have no vehicular pursuit, then congratulations. But that's automatically going to lead to an increase in in crime.
▶ 1:04:11And it's and especially juvenile crime because the juveniles at that age, 14, 15, 16 years old, it's like Representative Norman, they're they're old enough to have adult desires. They want a piece of the street. They they they they want a shot at some cash. They want a shot at what they call stripes on the street amongst the criminal element, whatever element they're working within.
▶ 1:04:40but they're not old enough to really recognize that they could be burning their entire future. So if you don't have any chance for for a 14, 15, 16 year old in a density of population where there's an organized crime element, I mean street organized crime, then you you you you're going to draw those juveniles into the game.
▶ 1:05:08You're going to draw them into the criminal game where they may never have stepped if you'd have built in accountability. And vehicle pursuit is one of the primary things they do is jack a car. They're going to jack a car whether it's occupied or not because they they want that stripe. You understand? So you're like reeling these guys in, man.
▶ 1:05:32And you're you're you're setting a stage where they're going to destroy their life if you don't build in accountability and strong law enforcement. Mr.
▶ 1:05:41Garcia, you want to respond to that because you brought up the that you hit pedestrians if car chases.
▶ 1:05:51Sure. Look, let me let me just begin just by saying that um different jurisdictions, state jurisdictions, city jurisdictions, they have different vehicular laws because cities are different. And so you just can't apply one set of laws even when it comes to policing, public safety, and the way that um the police vehicular agendas or police vehicular rules are laid out. It's not a one-sizefits-all.
▶ 1:06:20I'll tell you, you know, I I obviously was not a a police officer or law enforcement officer like um local representative Higgins, but I did manage a police force of almost 750 incredible officers, men and women alike, respect every single one of them, and I think they and others would tell you that laws have to be designed to the jurisdiction.
▶ 1:06:40I happen to believe that in DC, the folks that understand the city the best and certainly the layout of the city are going to be the local city council members and the mayor. And so they're the ones should be setting the laws. And I'll just add one more thing as it relates to police chases. And certainly when when you have these vehicular chases, half the time that that happens, it arises into when someone is hurt. It's usually a pedestrian, not the people involved in the actual accident.
▶ 1:07:09So, we have to be very thoughtful about how those rules are laid out.
▶ 1:07:12So, if you had a family member that was victimized, you'd want the police basically if you got 14 renditions to go through, just let him go. And
▶ 1:07:20no, I would want the police to follow the local law. And if if in that law you can have a a vehicular chase and it meets that criteria, then they should actually have that police car chase. But if it doesn't meet that criteria set by the local government and they've got to make that decision at the local level. Congressman Higgins, I don't know how you think if you got 14 things to think about before you get in a car to chase a do you have that kind of
▶ 1:07:43you're not going to pursue.
▶ 1:07:45It just becomes a part of department policy that discretion you have to leave it with that officer. This is the bottom line. A lot goes through your mind. But um but the the the policies of your department is if if you're basically at a hard note on pursuit, then you know, you have to make a decision very very fast if you if you're going to try and catch that vehicle.
▶ 1:08:13And boy, you sometimes those guys have done real bad stuff, but you're not quite sure. Maybe a vehicle that matches a description of an armed robbery where somebody got beat shot at. Um could be some violent stuff and he got a red sedan and he got a red sedan rolls up on you. You you see him and he sees you looks like and he he he turns all the way and jets.
▶ 1:08:42You're not going to chase that guy in this city. not chasing him because you you don't have a license plate confirm check with your supervisor all of that. It may have been him. Maybe commonly you find you know they're up they're up to some bad stuff when they when they run. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're just kids fooling around. But you find that out when you when when you stop the car.
▶ 1:09:10And then in every case, they learn that lesson that that if they run, they're going to get caught. And when they get caught, there's going to be some consequences at home and at school. They get kicked off the ball team. There's there's consequences you have to
▶ 1:09:28Well, it just seems common sense. If you're not going if you don't chase them, then the vict the victim suffers and then the criminal wins. That's Anyway, thank you for putting this up. Thank both. Thanks both of you for
▶ 1:09:41Gentleman yields back now. Recognize Miss Scandal of Pennsylvania for her time questioning.
▶ 1:09:46Thank you. Um having some trouble with these bills because they really run counter to the work I did before coming to Congress to family. My grandfather wrote one of the first criminal justice codes for juveniles in the country. I represented kids and I've been carjacked. So what you're saying doesn't really jive with a lot of my personal experience. So um Mr. Garcia, are DC residents pro crime?
▶ 1:10:16I mean absolutely not. I mean any DC resident you talk to wants their community safer and um there are in in the work that the council and the mayor have done to survey the community uh they are opposed to these measures. They want their community safe and they don't believe this will actually make them any
▶ 1:10:34Well, and that's what really has struck me about this. I mean, of course, there's the obvious anti-democratic element that, you know, we have people who don't represent the people of DC trying to impose their views on crime fighting here. Um, at the same time that we are still denying the people of DC actual representation in Congress.
▶ 1:10:56So, I find that troubling from kind of a 30,000 foot Democratic Republic um But even more, it's the fact that it's trying to impose these so-called tough on crime, you know, punitive measures in a way that is contradicted by decades of research and experience about what works with young people um who are much
▶ 1:11:27less likely as you mentioned u Mr. Higgins to understand the consequences of their action. it's something about the preffrontal cortex and when that develops and whether they can understand consequences and they're less likely to understand these kind of deterrent effects that punitive measures might have.
▶ 1:11:45Um, you know, I've found with kids in the criminal justice system that yes, accountability is absolutely important as are the opportunities for rehabilitation, etc. But I've the kids that we've dealt with in some of these inner cities, it's not lack of accountability that's spurring them to do these activities so much as the fact that they don't think they're going to live to be 20.
▶ 1:12:13You make very different decisions if you don't have a place to live, you don't have enough to eat, nobody in your family's gone to college, much less been on the ball team. Um it's a very different, vastly different worldview.
▶ 1:12:27Um, and I think when we are stripping away some of the supports that can help people develop that responsibility and respond when they are held accountable, as occurred this year when Congress failed to allow a budget for um for DC to pass through and then we ended up with cuts to mental health services, cuts to DC's own policing force.
▶ 1:12:51it it just feels like attempting to impose these punishments and have harsher consequences um is not going to solve the underlying problems that got us here. Mr. Garcia, you said something about um who is most likely to be impacted. Am I correct that it tends to be young men of color who get swept up in this?
▶ 1:13:14Absolutely. And and in the case of DC, it's overwhelmingly young black men. It feels like our country has gone down this path before trying to incarcerate um a whole generation of young black men and the uh impact it had on our communities.
▶ 1:13:34We now hear a lot about how we have to rebuild the family and in many of these communities where the automatic incarceration, the mandatory sentences occurred, we've seen whole family systems disrupted. So, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to go down that path. Um, again, uh, I I just think it's treating a symptom and and not not the underlying causes. Is there anything else you want to add?
▶ 1:14:04I'll just add that one thing one of the things I think is important to consider is, you know, at at the local government level, there is so much work that goes into creating a local law. There's public hearings, there's public testimony, there's community meetings, there's folks that gather with the local elected officials. And of course, in in in these proposals, none of that has happened with the DC community. And so essentially, we are just mandating what Congress believes are is the right approach versus actually listening and from the community and building something with the community.
▶ 1:14:34I think that's a big difference. So just to be clear, the DC community did do that kind of work when it when it brought these policies forward to implement. every single one of the the policies that have been implemented that are essentially being rolled back or changed were product of the DC community working with their local government and years in some cases years of discussion of debate of public hearings of community public comment at the council meetings and so a lot of work went into these
▶ 1:15:02that and and it does track with what I know of the research that's been done on developmental abilities of of young people in particularly how that intersects with our criminal justice system. You also mentioned um the need for community input when developing, for example, um pursuit regulations with respect to what what is the bill about? I'm sorry. It's um I don't have the technical term in front of me, but when you can have a a car pursuit, right?
▶ 1:15:31Yeah. The it's called the DC Policing Protection Act.
▶ 1:15:34That's it. I I mean we actually did have a hearing on that in the judiciary committee and there's been quite a lot of evolution in um thinking on that and I can very clearly see that it could be a very different situation.
▶ 1:15:48you know, if you've got a Dukes of Hazard kind of country pursuit chase as opposed to a crowded DC, we've got thousands of tourists cramming the cramming the sidewalks and and whether there are different calculations that need to be made in that environment. Um so, um obviously I'm not a big fan of the bills and I thank you both for your testimony.
▶ 1:16:12Thank you. Gentle yields back now recognize gentleman George and Mr. Scott for his question. Time of questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I'd like to commend the president of the United States for sinking another panga and stopping those drugs from getting to uh the United States of America. We lose a lot of Americans to drug overdoses every day and I hope they will continue to sink the drug boats. Um Mr. Higgins, we've already talked about the, you know, pursuit that is just part of police work.
▶ 1:16:42Is that a correct statement? If you're not going to pursue the criminal, the criminal is going to get away just by definition every day.
▶ 1:16:48Yes, sir.
▶ 1:16:49Are they just going to quit because we say pretty please don't do that again?
▶ 1:16:53Yes, sir. The police officer has to be able to make that that decision very quickly on the street and just like we have to make every enforcement decision and pursuit is is is not something that we take lightly.
▶ 1:17:13But you you're you're absolutely responsible for everything you do when you're in that unit and wearing that uniform and um pursuit is something that we train very very heavily on and it's usually in a good crowded environment.
▶ 1:17:33Those are the people you're protecting from whoever's I I I want to get to this definition of youth offender that seems to be such a problem for the the Democrat party. Uh this bill reduces the maximum age of a youth offender from 24 years in Washington DC to 18 years. My understanding is that in 44 states, the maximum age for a youth offender is 17.
▶ 1:18:02When you hit your 18th birthday, you're no longer a youth offender. That's 44 Five states including your state and my state that's limited to 16 and one state is 19 and that would be Vermont.
▶ 1:18:16Is that If you're asking if you're asking me, sir, the the the the definition of of an adult is varying from what at what age bracket a juvenile could be tried as an adult. So, in two topics, yes, sir. There there's a most states recognize adults as as over 17.
▶ 1:18:46um DC has has a different approach. They they have a bracket up to 24 and um we address that. I think that's a a big error and would lead to an increase in in juvenile crimes which indeed you have
▶ 1:19:04All right, Mr. Garcia, what is um the maximum age in the state of California? believe it's 18, sir. I
▶ 1:19:18I think I think when you hit 18, you're no longer considered a youth as as in 44 of the 50 states. Uh five states are are at 16, one state's at 19 and new in uh Washington DC is at 24. Correct.
▶ 1:19:38That's not correct. under under the under the I under the youth the the the YA that we're discussing right now there's alternatives but adults this of course only provision applies only in adult court so this is not in juvenile court there actually is a difference between the two types of courts this goes strictly to under the YRA act that was passed by the council this essentially eliminates the the judicial discretion to impose sentences
▶ 1:20:09below those mandatory minimums
▶ 1:20:11either I I I don't I can understand how states have some disagreements 16 17 18 19 but there is no way that a 24 year in any circumstances should be considered a youth especially in the criminal justice system. Um I'm going to leave it at that. Uh, I hope these bills pass.
▶ 1:20:40I again want to commend the president for sinking another panga filled with drugs that were coming to the United States to kill our citizens, our families, and uh I I hope that they will continue to take action to stop the drugs from coming to the shores of the United States of America. With that, Madam Chair, I
▶ 1:21:01Mr. Griffith, you're recognized.
▶ 1:21:04Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me just once again refer the rules committee to my DC retro session bill in regard to age 14. Um I I would just say that while the law is broader in Virginia than it is in Maryland, both states recognize that in certain heinous crimes, uh decisions have to be made and juveniles can be tried as adults at the age of 14 in both states. Virginia's is broader than Maryland's, but both of them exist.
▶ 1:21:31And then on high-speed chases, Madam Chair, I would I would have to agree with my Democrat colleagues in part in that I very I'm very concerned about high-speed chases. Too often we have high-speed chases that end in uh injuries to officers or to other people.
▶ 1:21:48Uh the reason that I can support this bill is the savings clause in uh HR5143 where it says if a law enforcement encounters a suspect fleeing in a motor vehicle, the officer shall engage in a ve vehicle vehicular pursuit of the suspect unless unless the officer or a higher ranking official with supervisor authority over the officer reasonably believes that a vehicle vehicular pursuit would entail an unacceptable risk of harm to a person other than the
▶ 1:22:20or be feudal or that the suspect can be apprehended more effectively or expeditiously by means other than vehicular pursuit. I think that language is a savings clause that makes the bill acceptable. And I would hope that our law enforcement folks in DC would use those and train their officers to use that kind of discretion. And I believe that probably Mr.
▶ 1:22:42Higgins uh had that language included because he knows that often times uh leadership in various police departments will go over the rules and go over ways that you can have an effective high-speed chase but not get carried away. And with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
▶ 1:22:59Thank you, Mr. Griffith. Are there any further questions? Mr.
▶ 1:23:06Thank you.
▶ 1:23:07Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Uh the bills before us are about restoring law and order, protecting residents, uh and ensuring that the millions of Americans that visit our beautiful capital city here in Washington DC and the in the millions of people that come from around the world can do so safely. And we have a duty as as the Congress to exercise oversight of the district when its policies put the public at risk.
▶ 1:23:28I come from a state that has destroyed its criminal justice system uh with many of the same uh policies that the DC council has uh engaged here in the district. So I I have firsthand knowledge of what it's meant uh to law and order in the streets of New York, especially the elimination of cash bail and what that has done to recidivism and and basically eroding any fears that criminals have of conducting uh continual sprees of crime.
▶ 1:23:55Uh you know we've seen it is crime in Washington has surged in recent years. You know one of our own colleagues was carjacked last year. Uh you know one of our colleagues intern was shot in cold blood in the streets this last year. Juvenile offenses are climbing. Uh while soft on crime policies have kept offenders on the streets instead of holding them accountable. Uh when criminals uh they violate the law willfully uh if there are no consequences to those crimes they will continue to commit crime.
▶ 1:24:24Uh so residents and visitors alike deserve better and these bills are a first step in restoring order and safety to all the people that are here in our nation's capital. No matter how the other side tries to spin it here, the facts speak for themselves. Uh even after a reported drop in homicides last year, DC still ranked among the most dangerous cities in America.
▶ 1:24:46and and now we're learning that crime data may have been manipulated, raising very serious questions about whether the situation is way worse than it was advertised. Uh but what what we do know is that since President Trump stepped in, violent crime is down 40%, carjackings have dropped 75% and those results uh prove that tougher policies work and why we need to act and act with authority. Uh so Mr. Higgins, we've heard a lot of wild claims from the other side this afternoon.
▶ 1:25:15Is there anything that you'd like to clear up in in the the final moments here?
▶ 1:25:19Thank you for asking, sir. I would like to say that there's I would ask my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to legitimately consider what I'm going to respectfully share. When you when you create an environment on the street, the street is like is like a living organism as it relates to crime and a criminal element. what we call the game. They run their place, we run ours.
▶ 1:25:49And the the street responds to to its environment that's created by city councils and and by whether you have a DA that prosecutes or a DA that that leans towards not prosecuting, what the age limits are for for a juvenile crime, whether or not you have a soft zone over 18 where you may be considered a juvenile.
▶ 1:26:12This is the environment and the living organism of the street and the the relationship between the criminal element and the law enforcement element sort of breathes in that And if you create an environment where where there's no noticeable accountability, your reporting goes way down.
▶ 1:26:42you. So the rep the the the street the citizenry stops reporting crimes. But if they report a burglary and you catch a guy that did it and that afternoon they see the same guy walking through the neighborhood crawling in another window. They don't report the next burglary. You understand? It's like the street and the citizenry. get it.
▶ 1:27:12If there's not going to be and there's not going to be and and the juvenile age stretches up to 24 potentially, especially on property and where you where a 14-year-old, 15y old, 16 year old, no shot is going to be going to be charged as an adult, prosecuted as an adult. the the the street responds to that environment and crime is going to increase.
▶ 1:27:43And in many criminal cases, especially property crime, but sometimes violent crime, when people get hurt a little bit, but they say, "I'm not calling it in. It doesn't do any good." The your reporting will go down. So when we enact these bills and they're signed into law, you may see an increase in reported crimes.
▶ 1:28:07And I expected my my Democrat colleagues are going to say, "Look, there's been there's been an increase in crime." But that's not intellectually sound. You really have to look at the realities of whether or not your citizenry is even reporting crimes because of the environment that you've created in DC. And we we hope to correct that. And I I encourage my colleagues to support the bills.
▶ 1:28:36We did have some Democrat support in markup on a couple of these bills.
▶ 1:28:40Thank you.
▶ 1:28:40I thank the gentleman.
▶ 1:28:42Thank you, Mr. Higgins. These bills make common sense reforms to protect our nation's capitals, deter repeat offenders, and ensure justice for victims. It is about restoring safety and accountability to this district, and I am proud to support these measures, and I yield back, Madam Chair.
▶ 1:28:58Thank you very much, Mr. Jack. You're
▶ 1:29:01Thank you, Madam Chair, and Mr. Higgins. It's always good to see you, my friend. Um, I'm just curious if you could expound upon that last comment you made about the bipartisan support. Um, could you talk a little bit about the committee markup last week and which of these bills does have and does enjoy bipartisan support?
▶ 1:29:22Yes, sir. That's you're asking me a specific question. And so I'm going to I'm going to refer to my to my notes here, but I believe a representative from California voted for both HR4922 and HR5140 in committee markup.
▶ 1:29:43But there was, let me just add to that by saying there was there was legitimate dis discussion and and some passionate debate in and reading the room.
▶ 1:29:58I think that if Congress was not so divided in a by bipartisan sort of entity, I think we'd have had more bipartisan support for these bills because we all oppose the crime having a free reign. We want to protect our citizenry. We all have compassion for our fellow man, including those Americans that are participating in in crime.
▶ 1:30:27So we we we all would seek, I think, more bipartisan agreement if perhaps Congress itself was not so divided on partisan lines. But even so, we did have Democrat support for a couple of these bills during markup. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:30:43Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
▶ 1:30:46Thank you very much, Mr. Jack. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak or ask any questions? Hearing none. The hearing portion of hearing none discloses the hearing portion of our meeting. Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here.
▶ 1:31:38Thank you. Will you please shut the door?
▶ 1:32:05Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move the committee grant HR4922, HR 4143, and HR 5125 closed rules. The rule waves all points of order against consideration of such bills. The rule provides that the respective amendments in the nature of a substitute consisting of the text of the rules committee print specified in section three of the rule shall be considered as adopted.
▶ 1:32:33Each such bill is as amended shall be considered as read. The rule waves all points of order against provisions in each such bill as amended. The rule provides one hour of general debate on each such bill equally divided and controlled by the chair and ranking minority member of the committee on oversight and government reform or their respective design. The rule provides each such rule one motion to recommmit.
▶ 1:32:57The rule further provides for consideration of HR 1047, the guaranteeing reliability through the interconnection of dispatchable power act under a closed rule. The rule waves all points of order against consideration of the bill.
▶ 1:33:13The rule provides that in lie of the amendment in the nature of a substitute recommended by the committee on energy and commerce now printed in the bill an amendment in the nature of a substitute consisting of the text of rules committee print 119-9 shall be considered and adopted in the bill as amended shall be considered as read. The rule waves all points of order against provisions in the bill as amended.
▶ 1:33:37The rule provides one hour of general debate equally divided and controlled by the chair and the ranking minority member of the committee on energy and commerce or their respective design. The rule provides one motion to recommit. The rule further provides for consideration of HR 3015 the national coal council reestablishment act under a closed rule. The rule waves all points of order against consideration of the bill.
▶ 1:34:00The rule provides that the amendment in the nature of a substitute recommended by the committee on energy and commerce now printed in the bill shall be considered as adopted and the bill as amended shall be considered as read. The rule waves all points of order against provisions in the bill as amended. The rule provides one hour of general debate equally divided and controlled by the chair and the ranking minority member of the committee on energy and commerce or their respective design. The rule provides one motion to recommmit. The rule further provides for consideration of HR 3062.
▶ 1:34:30the promoting cross energy crossborder energy infrastructure act under a closed rule. The rule waves all points of order against consideration of the bill. The rule provides that the amendment in the nature of a substitute recommended by the committee on energy and commerce now printed in the bill shall be considered as adopted in the bill as amended shall be considered as read. The rule waves all points of order against provisions in the bill as amended.
▶ 1:34:54The rule provides one hour of general debate equally divided and controlled by the chair and the ranking minority member of the committee on energy and commerce or their respective design. The rule provides one motion to recommit. The rule further provides that in the engrossment of HR 3633, the clerk shall add the text of HR1 1919 as passed by the house as a new matter at the end of HR 3633.
▶ 1:35:18Conform the title of HR 3633 to reflect the addition of HR1 19/19 as passed by the house to the engrossment. Assign appropriate designations to provisions within the engrossment. Conform cross references and provisions for the short titles within the engrossment and be authorized to make technical corrections to include corrections in the spelling, punctuation, page, and line numbering, section numbering, and insertion of appropriate headings.
▶ 1:35:43The rule further provides that section five of House Resolution 354 agreed to April 29th, 2025 is amended by striking September 30th, 2025 and inserting March 31st, 2026. The rule further provides that section 2 of House Resolution 313 agreed on April 9, 2025 is amended by striking September 30, 2025 and inserting March 31, 2026.
▶ 1:36:10The rule further provides that section 4 of House Resolution 211 agreed on March 11, 2025 is amended by striking quote for the remainder of the first session of the 119th Congress and inserting during the period from March 11, 2025 through March 31, 2026.
▶ 1:36:29Finally, the rule provides that the provisions of section 202 of the National Emergencies Act uh 50USC1622 shall not apply during the period from September 16, 2025 through March 31, 2026 to a joint resolution terminating the national emergency declared by the president on July 30, 2025.
▶ 1:36:56The motion Uh, Mr. Rworthy. Uh, is there any discussion or amendment to the rule?
▶ 1:37:05Mr. McGover.
▶ 1:37:05Madam Chair, we're going to have three amendments. Um, and I have an amendment to the rule. You're recognized.
▶ 1:37:10I have amendment to the rule. I move the committee strike sections 9, 10, and 11 of the rule, which blocks privilege consideration of measures ending the administration's global tariffs and tariffs on Canada, Mexico, and Brazil until March 31st, 2026. Madam Chair, President Trump's trade war continues to increase prices uh Americans Americans are paying for food, gas, and other everyday goods.
▶ 1:37:37According to the Yale Budget Lab, Trump's current tariff regime is resulting in a $2,300 tax increase in 2025 alone for the average American household. Fruits and vegetables, beef, and coffee are just some of the products experiencing the highest price increases. The US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit recently held that these sweeping tariffs imposed under the guise of bogus emergencies are unlawful.
▶ 1:38:03And as we await the Supreme Court's decision, Congress should act to reassert its role over tariffs and trade. And I'm continually disappointed in some of my colleagues who so often talk about the importance of Congress reasserting its role in trade. But when the cards uh are down uh give Trump unchecked power to impose tariffs for whatever reason he wants without so much as a vote in Congress.
▶ 1:38:27So in defense of the Constitution and the role of Congress, I urge a yes vote on my motion and I yield back.
▶ 1:38:35Uh thank you Mr. McGovern. Is there any further discussion on the amendment from Mr. McGovern? Hearing none. The questions on the amendment. All those in favor signify by saying I.
▶ 1:38:50All those opposed say no.
▶ 1:38:51No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it. The amendments. Roll call.
▶ 1:38:56Mr. McGovern request a roll call vote. The clerk will call the role.
▶ 1:39:00Mrs. Fishbach. Mrs. Fishbach. No. Mr. Norman. Mr. Norman. No. Mr. Roy. Mrs. Hchen. Mrs. Howchin. No. Mr. Langworthy. Mr. Langworthy. No. Mr. Scott. Mr. Scott. No. Mr. Griffith. Mr. Griffith. No. Mr. Jack. No. Mr. Jack. No. Mr.
▶ 1:39:14Mr. McGovern. I Miss Scallan.
▶ 1:39:16Miss Scallan. I am. Mr. Negus, Miss Lasher Fernandez. Madam Chair.
▶ 1:39:21Madam Chair. No.
▶ 1:39:23The clerk will report the total
▶ 1:39:24two yays. Eight nays.
▶ 1:39:26And the nos have it. The amendments not agreed to. Mr. McGovern, you're
▶ 1:39:30Yes, madam chair. I have um um an amendment to the rule. I move the committee strike section 8 of the rule which turns off privilege consideration of resolutions of inquiry until March 31st, 2026. Madam Chair, earlier this year, Republicans turned off ROIs until the end of September. The rationale for doing so was murky at best. Mr.
▶ 1:39:52Roy explained, and I quote, "We have extended this through September 30th only at our request to limit it because we want to be able to get through reconciliation." End quote. Now, with reconciliation behind us, uh, and as the September deadline approaches, you are turning them off again. What possible rationale can Republicans have now other than that you're scared to take votes to actually conduct oversight of this administration? So, I urge a yes vote on my amendment.
▶ 1:40:23Is there any further discussion on the amendment? Miss Hanland, you're
▶ 1:40:27Thank you. I do support this amendment. I think it's really wrong that Congress hasn't asserted its constitutional authority over these tariffs. Um I think it's wrong that we're not getting a vote on it. I think all Americans should be able to see where their representatives stand on these tariffs which have been so damaging to so many parts of our economy. I yield back. Thank you, Miss Scandlin. Is there further discussion on the amendment from Mr. McGover? Hearing none, the questions on the amendment.
▶ 1:40:58All those in favor signify by saying I.
▶ 1:41:01All those opposed say no.
▶ 1:41:03In the opinion chair, the nos have it. The amendments not agreed to.
▶ 1:41:06As for roll call,
▶ 1:41:07Mr. McGovern request A roll call vote. The clerk will call the role.
▶ 1:41:12Mrs. Fishbach. Mrs. Fishbach. No, Mr. Norman. Mr. Norman. No. Mr. Roy. Mrs. Howton. Mrs. Howton. No. Mr. Langworthy. Mr. Langworthy. No. Mr. Scott.
▶ 1:41:21Mr. Scott. No. Mr. Griffith. Mr. Griffith. No. Mr. Jack.
▶ 1:41:24Mr. Jack. No. Mr. McGovern.
▶ 1:41:25Mr. McGovern. I am. Miss Scanland. Miss Scan. I am. Mr. Nus. Miss. Ledger. Fernandez. Madam Chair.
▶ 1:41:32Madam Chair. No.
▶ 1:41:34The clerk will report the total.
▶ 1:41:35Two yays. Eight nays.
▶ 1:41:37And the nos have it. The amendments not agreed to. Mr. McGovern, you're
▶ 1:41:41We have one final amendment. I have an amendment to the rule. I move the rule also provide that immediately upon adoption of the resolution. The House shall consider HR4405, the bipartisan Epstein Files Transparency Act introduced by Representative Kana and Massie under a closed rule with one hour of debate. Madam Chair, this issue isn't going away. The American people want the files released. This bipartisan bill does exactly that while protecting victims and survivors. and I urge a yes vote on my motion and I yield back.
▶ 1:42:11Thank you, Mr. McGovern. Is there any further discussion on the amendment?
▶ 1:42:18Hearing none, the questions on the amendment. All those in favor signify by saying I.
▶ 1:42:23Those opposed say no. No.
▶ 1:42:25In the opinion chair, the nos have it. The amendments not agree.
▶ 1:42:28I ask for a roll call.
▶ 1:42:29Mr. McGovern request a roll call. The clerk will call the role.
▶ 1:42:32Mrs. Fishbach. Mrs. Fishbach. No. Mr. Norman. Mr. Norman. No. Mr. Roy. Mrs. Howin Mrs. Houchin? No. Mr. Langworthy. Mr. Langworthy. No. Mr. Scott.
▶ 1:42:41Mr. Scott. No. Mr. Griffith. Mr. Griffith. No. Mr. Jack. Mr. Jack. No. Mr. McGovern. Hi.
▶ 1:42:45Mr. McGovern. I Miss Gatlin.
▶ 1:42:47Miss Gallen. I Mr. Negus. Miss Ledger Fernandez. Madam Chair.
▶ 1:42:52Madam Chair. No.
▶ 1:42:54The clerk will report the total.
▶ 1:42:55Two yays. Eight nays.
▶ 1:42:57The nos have it. The amendment is not agreed to. Is there any other amendment or discussion? Hearing no further discussion, the questions on the motion from the gentleman from New York. All those in favor signify by saying I.
▶ 1:43:15Those opposed say no.
▶ 1:43:18In the opinion of chair, the eyes have it. The motion is agreed to.
▶ 1:43:21We ask for a roll call.
▶ 1:43:23Mr. McGovern request roll call. The clerk will call the role.
▶ 1:43:26Mrs. Fishbach.
▶ 1:43:27Mrs. Fishbach. I. Mr. Norman. Mr. Norman. I. Mr. Roy. Mrs. Houchin. Mrs. Houchin. I Mr. Langworthy. Mr. Langworthy. I, Mr. Scott.
▶ 1:43:36Mr. Scott. I Mr. Griffith,
▶ 1:43:38Mr. Griffith, I Mr. Jack,
▶ 1:43:39Mr. Jack, I Mr. McGovern,
▶ 1:43:41Mr. McGovern, no. Miss Scallan,
▶ 1:43:43Miss Scallan, no. Mr. Nagus, Miss Ladger Fernandez. Madam Chair,
▶ 1:43:48Madam Chair, I
▶ 1:43:51The clerk will report the total.
▶ 1:43:53Eight yays. Two nays.
▶ 1:43:55The eyes have it. The motion to report is agreed to. Accordingly, the gentleman from New York, Mr. Mr. Langworthy will be managing the rule for the majority
▶ 1:44:05and I'll do it for the minority.
▶ 1:44:07Mr. McGovern will handle it for the minority. Without objection, the committee is adjourned.