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▶ 0:29:55subcommittee on Rails pipelines and hiters R ouses materials will come to order I ask unan consent that the chairman be authorized to declare recess at any time during the committee's hearings without objection so that adopted also ask unanimous consent that the members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit on the subcommittee on today's hearing and ask questions without objection should that ordered as a reminder if members wish to insert a document into the record please email those documents
▶ 0:30:25to TI Ma .h house.gov and now recognize myself for five minutes for the purpose of open statement when it comes to energy resources the United States has been twice blessed uh first we've been blessed with natural endowment of of natural resources of various types and compositions second we've been blessed with the Ingenuity and Entre entrepreneurship and that uh spirit that goes with that
▶ 0:30:56uh to develop Technologies capable to safety and effectively access develop and transport these Pro previously unavailable resources to markets and consumers the economic and Security benefits of this uh Bounty have been sub substantial overall the domestic oil and gas sectors support more than 10 million jobs and generate nearly 1.8 trillion
▶ 0:31:26in economic the average indust uh industry wage is 65% greater than the United States average wage in other employment sectors these jobs are spread across multiple Industries including manufacturing construction transportation and warehousing our committee has an interest in ensuring this uh energy Bounty is safely transported across the uh energy supply
▶ 0:31:56chain today's hearing will examine the need to reauthorize the pipeline and hazardous material safety thima including providing it with New Direction and authority over emerging energy resources and sources last Congress the committee passed HR 6494 promising Innovation and pipeline efficiency
▶ 0:32:26and safety act of 2023 or um it was reported out of the committee on a bipartisan basis in drafting this bill the committee solicited input from a wide range of parties and received uh 90 priorities from members and over 100 requests for pipeline safety stakeholders in our country real roughly 3.3 million miles of onshore pipeline safety and efficiency
▶ 0:32:57carry natural gas crude oxygen hazardous liquids and other energy sources vital to our nation's industry industry Independence it is of utmost importance that Congress to ensure that fimsa is focused on its core mission of advancing Safe Transportation of these resources like to welcome our people uh that are witnesses today Mr Andrew black
▶ 0:33:28president of CEO of liquid energy pipeline Association Eric Taylor director Engineering Services bhe NS Emanuel Paris vice president of Alex e Paris contracting company and Mr Kum executive director of pipeline safety trust look forward to hearing your testimony we yield back now and
▶ 0:33:58recognize ranking member Titus it's a opening statement well thank you Mr chairman and thank you to the witnesses for being here today as you all know there are 3.4 million miles of hazardous liquid and gas pipelines in the United States that help deliver energy to all communities in all our districts over 11,000 of those are in Nevada so ensuring the safety of these pipelines is a matter I take very seriously in
▶ 0:34:282004 just to do a little history Congress enacted legislation to create the pipeline and hazardous material safety administration or fimsa fim's dedicated staff in the office of pipeline safety ensures that the United States pipeline Transportation Network operates safely reliably and in an environmentally sound manner states have also taken uh steps to improve pipeline safety in 2021 Nevada became
▶ 0:34:58the first state to require annual leak surveys of all Interstate natural gas pipelines this was annual instead of every five years I think it was by identifying leaks early on the regulations are helping prevent explosions at businesses and in residential areas all across Nevada late last year also you saw Regulators in Colorado finalized rules requiring operators of natural gas pipelines to disclose more data on
▶ 0:35:29leaks this data from fima showed that serious pipeline incidences have really improved they've decreased by 34% over the last 20 years and that's great but despite this progress there's still work to be done in January of last year 2024 two houses for example less than a mile apart in Jackson Mississippi exploded just three days from each other uh because of Atmos energy pipeline leaks
▶ 0:35:59the first home explosion resulted in one fatality and one injury the resulting fire from the second explosion spread to a neighboring home these incidences happened after Atmos had identified leaks in their pipelines in the area but had failed to correct and repair them then in December of last year a natural gas explosion in Avendale Louisiana killed one person and injured five and again this pipe was operated by atmost
▶ 0:36:30energy Congress has repeatedly made it clear that pipeline safety is a bipartisan issue and I appreciate that and that's why I'm concerned with President Trump's efforts to slash the federal Workforce that will ensure this safety Last Congress as the chairman said this committee approved a bipartisan pipeline safety bill that would authorize fimsa to hire 30 additional staff members to implement pipeline safy policies and fulfill congress's
▶ 0:37:00mandates this was supported by Democrats and Republicans as well as industry and safety Advocates because we all know that increased capacity will make pipelines safer for operators for communities near pipelines and for our environment in general this legislation however never did receive a vote on the floor the bipartisan pipes Act of 2023 also included a critical provision to address FEMA's safety Workforce shortages
▶ 0:37:30improve FEMA's public Outreach and engagement efforts and strengthen penalties for pipeline damage and disruption the bill also had Provisions to help fimsa prepare to regulate the next generation of pipelines and keeping up with technology Congress inv invested in pipeline projects to transport gasas carbon dioxide and hydrogen through the bipartisan infrastructure law and the inflation reduction act I want to be sure that the federal safety
▶ 0:38:01Regulators have the tools they need uh to mitigate the new risks that are associated with these projects in closing I look forward to working with the chairman and other members of this committee to build on the bipartisan work on Pipeline safety that started long ago and in intensified last session so that we can get legislation across the Finish Line during this Congress so thank you all for being here today and I look forward to hearing your perspectives I yeld back
▶ 0:38:32thank you very much now recognize the ranking member of the full committee Mr Larson you recognize for five minutes thank you chair Webster and ranking member Titus for holding this hearing the recent rise in pipeline incidents and deaths should be a warning called to this committee last year in the Northwest we marked the 25th anniversary of the Olympic pipeline explosion in Bellingham Washington an explosion that claimed the lives of two 10-year-old an 18-year-old young man explosion released 237 gallons of gasoline
▶ 0:39:02into wam Creek that flowed through wam Falls Park in Bellingham and so since then my entire tenure in Congress I have fought to reduce the risk of pipeline incidents promote transparency of pipeline safety information for local communities and increase accountability for pipeline operators and progress has been made but certainly more need to be done through legislation and rulemaking fims had Advanced two important rule Maks in December of last year one on methane leak detection and the other on gaseous carbon dioxide pipeline requirements
▶ 0:39:33The Leak Detection rule helps reduce pollution limit unintentional methane leaks and intentional venting I want to be clear that President Trump signed this requirement into law in his first term um as well um the 2011 pipeline safety act passed 13 years ago first required a carbon dioxide rulemaking this requirement was made more urgent after carbon dioxide pipeline ruptured in Mississippi in 2020
▶ 0:40:04these rulemakings will increase safety they are required by law and the new Administration should Now quickly Advance them after after um pulling them back um so we they can do work already without us having to do more work but now I want to turn to deadly accidents according to fimsa in the past 5 years have been 3,00 , 70 pipeline incidents killing 58 people injuring 167 more people and causing more than $2.3
▶ 0:40:34billion in property damage primary reason these incidents occurred was due to material weld or equipment failures all factors primarily within the control of pipeline operators the NTSB in addition doing to doing its great work investigating Aviation accidents that we've seen over the last uh 34 35 days has nine open pipeline safety investigations including one at launched this past weekend after Kansas after a Kansas gas pipeline leak and explosion in Hutchinson
▶ 0:41:05Kansas more people are dying as well 24 and 23 saw the deadliest pipeline incidents in more than a decade in March of 2023 a UGI pipeline explosion at a chocolate factory in West Reading Pennsylvania killed seven people injured 11 people displaced three families from a neighboring apartment building and forced many more people from the area to evacuate Chocolate Factory was not rebuilt and produ is shifted to other facilities leaving the town of West Reading population 4530 without a significant employer that had been in the community for 65
▶ 0:41:35years and more problems are occurring there are more incidents in 2024 than there were in 23 including one in my district in late December of 2023 the now BP and Olympic pipeline saw another gas spill in my district this time more than 20 thousand gallons of diesel spilled near the elementary school in Conway Washington emergency response took more than a year but and still hasn't been completely cleaned up but more can be done and we should work quickly to pass a pipeline
▶ 0:42:05safety Bill similar to the one we passed last Congress this committee unanimously approved a a bipartisan pipeline safety bill that improved transparency by creating an office of public man engagement an idea Champion by representative Strickland this legislation also required fimsa to review operator emergency response plans and more funding will help fimsa and St pipeline safety programs need resources and staff to inspect pipelines conduct investigations when they occur when incidents occur and take appropriate enforcement actions So Bad actors are held
▶ 0:42:36accountable our bill increased the authorizations for both fimsa and State Pipeline safety authorities we also included 56 million for State sa uh State Pipeline safety programs over four years but I'm troubled by the president's recent efforts to remove people from the jobs uh that play a critical role to hold pipeline operators accountable for their actions that might harm people just as an example fimsa assessed a $2 million civil penalty on Denbury Gulf Coast pipelines and its
▶ 0:43:06contractor Republic Testing Laboratories for obstructing fima safety inspectors from observing pipeline repairs and verbally and physically assulting fimsa safety inspectors employees of these two companies physically prevented a fima safety inspector from questioning the welder held up a screen to prevent a fima safety inspector from observing a weld and prevented a fimsa safety inspector from photographing test equipment these repairs were being conducted to replace the carbon dioxide pipeline that ruptured in satar satara Mississippi that
▶ 0:43:36sent 45 people to the hospital in 2020 dem's Behavior towards fimsa safety inspectors the administration's efforts to cut staff from the office of pipeline safety and to cut funding for grants that Congress itself we all mandated including fim's technical assistance grants put communities at risk Nationwide let's put safety in America first now Congress has recognized that improving safety requires strong regulation and funding support the blil created the first ever Natural Gas
▶ 0:44:06Distribution infrastructure safety and modernization grant program and last May fimsa announced $196 million for 60 publicly owned utilities to repair or replace natural gas pipelines this investment will reduce incidents and improve safety we should keep it going pipelines P play a critical role in the daily lives of Americans we are here today to make sure the national pipeline safety work safe uh pipeline Network safely delivers Energy across the country look forward to today's discussion
▶ 0:44:36and thank each of the witnesses today for your testimony yield thank you very much again I'd like to welcome our Witnesses thank them for being here today briefly I'd like to explain our lighning system green means go yellow means you're getting ready to stop and red means stop pretty simple that uh Witnesses full statements be included in the record without objection show
▶ 0:45:06that ordered I ask un n's consent that the record of today's hearing remain open and till such time as our Witnesses have provided answers to any questions that might be submitted in writing that objection show that ordered I ask for anonimous consent that the record reain open for 15 days for an additional comments and information submitted by members or witnesses to be included in today's hearing that objection show that order as your written testimony will be made
▶ 0:45:37part of the record we ask you to um limit your remarks to five minutes Mr Black you're recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chairman ranking members I'm Andy black president and CEO of the liquid energy pipeline Association Lea represents pipeline owners and operators trans supporting Transportation fuels like gasoline diesel jet Transportation feed stocks like crude oil home heating fuels like propane and
▶ 0:46:07heating oil industrial feed stocks like ethane and butane and low carbon Solutions like liquid petroleum gas renewable Diesel and carbon dioxide we have over 50 member companies delivering over 20 billion barrels annually across a nearly 230,000 mile network of pipelines thank you thank you for holding this hearing today and highlighting the vital role this committee has promoting the infrastructure that leads to American Prosperity this committee has an important role
▶ 0:46:37ensuring our pipeline network is safe through pipeline safety reauthorization allowing us to confidently expand our pipeline infrastructure as the committee considers the role of pipeline infrastructure and what changes to make to Federal pipeline safety laws it's important to remember that pipelines are the safest way to deliver energy more 99.999% of crude oil and petroleum products delivered by pipeline reaches its destination safely a
▶ 0:47:07report prepared by by fza for congress analyzing 10 years of incident data found pipelines were 13 times safer than both trains and trucks with pipelines experiencing only one incident for every 720 million gallons delivered an Obama administration analysis found rejecting a major pipeline and shipping the same crude oil by rail would increase the risk of oil release by over 800 times and of barrels released by 2.6 times
▶ 0:47:38current fima pipeline incident statistics also show pipeline safety is improving according to publicly available fimsa data total liquid pipeline incidents are down 12% Over The Last 5 Years liquids pipelines incidents impacting people or the environment are also o down 12% Over The Last 5 Years declining pipeline incidents Over The Last 5 Years supports the committee's measured approach to reauthorizing pipeline safety laws without
▶ 0:48:08major changes or new mandates Lea does believe Congress can do more to help modernize pipeline safety programs because key parts of fima safety regulations are over 20 years old and do not reflect the latest advances in safety technology or knowhow Lea recognizes that America is blessed with an abundance of energy pipelines are the vital link from where that energy is produced to where it is refined and usable products and to on to Consumers and businesses
▶ 0:48:38in their home regions smart pipeline policies will promote the pipeline infrastructure needed to deliver American Energy dominance lastly Lea believes Congress can help fza increase the effectiveness and transparency of its pipeline safety programs and requirements Lea welcomed and supported the pipeline safety reauthorization bill this committee approved in December of 23 my written testimony details the many Provisions Lepa supported including these
▶ 0:49:08six number one reforming fina's special permit program number two strengthening penalties for pipeline violations that impair operations of facilities or damag construction sites number three requiring fimsa issue an order congressionally mandated rulemaking on idled pipelines number four authorizing a voluntary information sharing to conven stakeholders to collaborate on safety initiatives number
▶ 0:49:39five requiring risk-based inspections of inservice breakout tanks to reduce unnecessary greenhouse gas and air pollutant emissions reduce worker safety threats and reduce hazardous waste when shown to achieve an equivalent level of safety and number six improving pipeline expertise of fima personnel with hiring Authority for engineering scientific or other technical expertise one final note on leveraging new technologies in the 2020 pipes Act Congress recognized
▶ 0:50:09pipeline safety could benefit from harnessing the latest high-tech inspection Technologies and analytics however fima bureaucratic red tape in the last Administration effectively strangled this program before it could ever start an opportunity now exists and leap of supports Resto restoring the will of Congress and reauthorizing this program without additional bureaucratic red tape or conditions thank you again for the committee support of pipeline energy infrastructure and the opportunity to testify before you
▶ 0:50:40today on the benefits of pipelines including their safety you thank you very much Mr Taylor you recognize for five minutes chairman Webster ranking member Titus and members of the subcommittee good morning my name is Eric Taylor and I serve as the Director of Engineering Services for bhe gns thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the interstate Natural Gas Association of America otherwise known as Inga on promoting and improving safety and pipeline infrastructure
▶ 0:51:10we appreciate the subcommittee's leadership and ongoing efforts to develop a measure that would reauthorize the office of pipeline safety within fimsa Ina is a trade Association specifically representing the interstate natural gas pipeline and storage industry Inus member companies transport most of the natural gas consumed in the United States through a network of approximately 200,000 miles of Interstate transmission pipelines and are primarily focused on serving customers like local distribution companies electricity generators industrial manufacturers
▶ 0:51:40and LG export facilities I focused the last 10 years of my career on Pipeline safety and most recently have been engaged in the last two major FS of Ru makings the leak detection and repair lar and class location proposed rules I was very involved in the gas pipeline advisory committee gpac meetings in November 2023 and March 2024 we applaud the committee for employing a bipartisan strategy in the 118th Congress to reauthorize fimsa pipeline safety programs for four years as you begin your
▶ 0:52:10deliberations to draft and ideally enact a pipeline safety reauthorization measure there are several points I would like to make on behalf of the natural gas transmission pipeline industry first the United States Department of Transportation fimsa other regulators and Industry experts have for decades agreed that pipelines are the safest mode of natural gas Transportation Inus supports having a strong safety regulator and the robust durable and consistent regulations led by fimsa to ensure accountability of operators we take our
▶ 0:52:40commitment to safety seriously and appreciate fim's role in ensuring the industry maintains its safety focus and the public is confident in the safety and reliability of natural gas pipelines second in's top regulatory priority with fimsa is completion of the class location rule which presents opportunities to improve safety protect the environment and possibly increase capacity of existing pipelines that have had their capacity reduce due due to a down rate from a class location change class location change
▶ 0:53:11regulations have not been substantially updated in more than 50 years revising them has been an Inga goal for more than two decades more details are provided in my written testimony but Inus strongly supports the committee's prior mandate for fimsa to complete this rulemaking within 90 days after the enactment date third in the 2011 reauthorization Congress required fimsa to issue regulations for conducting tests to confirm the material strength of previously untested natural gas transmission pipelines fimsa
▶ 0:53:41completed this Congressional mandate in the fall of 2019 and while Inus supported fims of promulgating this regulation the agency made admitted drafting errors unless rectified Ina members may be forced to retest previously tested pipelines with no added safety benefit causing disruption to communities unnecessarily venting gas and costing operators billions of dollars Ena commends this committee for addressing this issue in the pipes Act 2023 fourth the gpac is an advisory committee
▶ 0:54:11to the department plays an important role to enhance gas pipeline safety regulations historically gpac met regularly to consider important rules and discuss important safety advancements but since January 2021 has only convened three three times despite its Charter stating gpac meet approximately four times per year further there are times where fima has disagreed with the anonymous gpac decisions to final rules with providing a technical basis for why while Ina does not challenge fim's
▶ 0:54:41Independence to render decisions we believe Congress can strengthen transparency by receiving fimsa reports on rationale and conclusions when issuing final rules Ina appreciates the committee previously addressing both issues lastly our industry recogniz es the importance of data sharing and proactively attempts to participate in Industry organizations to share lessons learn Angus supports the bipartisan inclusion of language in your bill last Congress for voluntary information sharing in conclusion your efforts are vital
▶ 0:55:12to ensure FSA has the resources and direction to continually improve safety for our industry I truly appreciate the opportunity to testify in front of the subcommittee today and look forward to your questions thank you very much Mr P you're recognized for five minutes chairman Webster ranking member Titus ranking member lson and members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you this morning to discuss effective ways to improve pipeline safety and efficient pipeline pipeline infrastructure I am Emanuel Paris vice
▶ 0:55:42president of Alexy Paris contracting company we are located out of atlasburg Pennsylvania and our company company was established in 1928 we perform a variety of construction services including installation of large and small diameter piping cross country pip pipeline utility construction and a variety of civil and Commercial projects I'm here today representing the distribution contractors Association and the Pennsylvania utility contractors Association DCA is a National Association representing the entities who provide Construction Services needed
▶ 0:56:12for installation replacement and Rehabilitation of Natural Gas Distribution Systems as well as transmission pipelines in communities across our country puka is one of the largest Statewide utility construction associations in the country serving excavation contra contractors in multiple underground facility markets because the vast majority of pipeline construction is contracted out to members of our industry we appreciate this opportunity while there are many facets to pipeline safety our industrys remains especially concerned with the enduring problem of damage to underground
▶ 0:56:42facilities during excavation for the most part contractors operators and leaders in damage prevention like the Common Ground Alliance have long supported the concept of sharing responsibility and damage prevention ensuring for accurate and timely location and marking of underground facilities is fundamental to this process and they are gaining attention according to the Common Ground alliances 2023 Dam damage information reporting tool excavators face about a 50/50 odds of being able to legally start work on time due to utilities
▶ 0:57:13not providing timely locates this obviously undermines the 811 process according to CGA failure to locate underground facilities accurately and on time was the root cause of 34% of facility damages in 201 3 records of underground utilities can be outdated inaccurate or incomplete and are sometimes unavailable to damage prevention stakeholders like designers locators and excavators such as ourselves this committee's pipeline safety reauthorization Bill considered in the last Congress address these challenges by proposing
▶ 0:57:43improvements to State damage prevention programs specifically We Believe State Pipeline safety authorities should support and encourage adoption of leading practices to improve their programs We Believe State damage prevention auth should be setting policies to reduce exemptions in the damage prevention process require marking of all underground lines and laterals including sewer lines and laterals encourage robust training for locate professionals and to promote and encourage the use of state-of-the-art Technologies to locate underground
▶ 0:58:13facilities exemptions to the one call or 811 process have been in the thorn thorn in the side of damage prevention since one Call's laws were established exemptions for specific Stak stakeholders or certain types of infrastructure do nothing but comp compromise the damage prevention process while it's generally agreed to that exemptions to one call participation are bad for damage prevention it's important to clarify that participation means that all excavators notify their 811 Center prior to excavation and that all underground Facility Owners belong to the
▶ 0:58:43respective 811 Center and respond to requests I want to move to the need for improved mapping of underground facilities and spe specifically the need to move toward Geographic informations or GIS mapping GIS can create analyze and map different layers of data by creating maps and scenes related to underground facilities and allows for layering of data tied to Geographic points rather than restricting the user to limited features on a static map the goal of moving towards Superior G GIS mapping is shared by Industries outside
▶ 0:59:13of the excavation construction industry support of these damage prevention Prov Provisions especially related to GIS mapping was shared by other National associations and organizations representing all of us the infrastructure investment and jobs Act of 21 provided an unprecedented $550 uh $550 billion in new investments in American infrastructure and a significant portion of those dollars will go toward improvements to underground systems that means that there will be an unprecedented amount of underground utility work coming
▶ 0:59:43forward our me Members also support Provisions that would hold those physically attack pipeline infrastructure more accountable While most agree on the right to Peaceful activism including peaceful protests to pipeline construction proc Pro projects stiffer penalties are needed to hold those who engage in criminal activities during protests more accountable it's important to include pipeline facilities under construction within the scope of this provision and the excavation Community would agree or argue that while interfering or tampering with the operation of pipeline would clearly compromise pipeline
▶ 1:00:14safety vandalism and destruction of nearby quinon used to build a pipeline can be just as dangerous the excavation construction industry looks forward to working with all of you on advancing pipeline safety reauthorization leg isation to include language to improve State Pipeline safety programs through prom promotion of several leading practices I'd like to thank you again uh for the opportunity to speak with you today and I look forward to answer any questions that you have thank you very much Mr Kum you recognize for five minutes thank you good
▶ 1:00:44morning chair Webster uh ranking member Titus ranking member Larsson and members of the subcommittee thank you for inviting me to speak today on the vital subject of pipeline safety my name is Bill carum and I'm the executive director of the pipeline safety trust pipeline safety trust was founded after the 1999 uh pipe Olympic pipeline tragedy in Bellingham Washington that entirely preventable failure spilled gasoline into a beautiful salmon stream in the heart of our community which ignited and killed three boys
▶ 1:01:14the US justice department was so appalled at the operations of the pipeline company and the lacks oversight from the federal government that they asked the courts to set aside money from the settlement to create the pipeline safe safety trust as a national Watchdog on the pipeline industry and its Regulators I look forward to the day when I can tell you that there have been no fatalities since the last time I testified but today is not that day the last two years have been the deadliest two-year period for pipelines in nearly 15 years since the 2-year
▶ 1:01:45period that included the devastating pg& pipeline explosion in San Bruno California widely considered a low point for pipeline safety I warn you that my message is largely the same as my previous opportunities to testify before the subcommittee and that's because the state of pipeline safety is largely the same we continue to langu languish with consistent poor performance with a significant incident almost every day and 30 people killed over the last two years
▶ 1:02:15in December the NTSB held a board meeting to discuss the 2023 UGI Utilities pipeline failure in West Riding Pennsylvania that killed seven people and injured 11 the failed piece of pipeline infrastructure was made from adal a plastic fima has known these adle a components are prone to failure for decades the NTSB is also investigating an Enbridge pipeline failure that occurred in November in South Jordan Utah that killed a 15-year-old child the preliminary report finds that the failed pipeline was also at
▶ 1:02:46a Atmos Energy a large Gas Distribution pipeline operator in the Southeast has had a string of deadly failures with troublingly common patterns an n TSB investigation of a 2018 home explosion that took the life of a 12-year-old girl while she practiced her cheerleading routine found that the failed pipeline was part of an under-maintained system full of leaks that had led to fires in neighboring homes in the preceding days neighbors had complained repeatedly about the smell of gas Atmos didn't find any
▶ 1:03:16leaks they deemed to be hazardous before the home exploded then just last year in Jackson Mississippi a pipeline fueled home explosion killed the 82-year-old wife of a community Pastor an NTSB preliminary report found that the failed pipeline was part of an under maintained system full of leaks that led to another home explosion in the following days neighbors had complained repeatedly about the smell of gas Atmos didn't find any leaks they deemed to be hazardous before the home exploded again if I'm repeating myself it's because
▶ 1:03:46operators are repeating their mistakes that kill people while everyone on today's panel supports the goal of zero incidents unfortunately we have a long way to go I commend the subcommittee for working together on Pipeline safety legislation over the last two years the bill this subcommittee passed has some good Provisions increasing civil penalties is a step in the right direction when we try to chart penalties levied on operators against their quarterly earnings we often can't even visualize the penalty at such a tiny percentage of earnings so giving fims a
▶ 1:04:16more enforcement Authority albeit small in this case is moving in the right direction additionally increasing authorized resources to fimsa and state programs is another move in the right direction Direction not only has the agency been chronically underfunded but the additional miles of jurisdictional pipe and the potential buildout of carbon dioxide and hydrogen pipelines demand an increase in resources from Congress thank you for answering that call however given the continued lack of progress on Pipeline safety we need more there are many Provisions in this bill
▶ 1:04:46that won't contribute to safety progress additionally there are common sense practical safety initiatives that would make a real impact on safety such as fire sh off valves these devices can mitigate the damage caused by a house fire that could be made worse by the presence of gas service the valve automatically closes when exposed to heat preventing natural gas from adding literal fuel to the fire these devices are inexpensive require no ongoing maintenance and can be easily installed on service lines
▶ 1:05:16as you discuss how to move forward on authorizing fim's pipeline safety program and make improvements to the law I implore you to think of the empty seats at dinner tables across the country because of pipeline failures I've been with families who have lost loved ones recently I've been with families who lost loved ones over 25 years ago and I can tell you the pain never goes away please give fimsa the authority and the resources it needs to meet its responsibility to the American people
▶ 1:05:48you thank you very much so now it's time for us to ask questions ready we're ready um I guess my first question is basically Mr Kum and others mentioned the fact that uh things just didn't get done I'm wondering if
▶ 1:06:19um last four years has had no administrator nobody in charge does that how does that affect the overall enforcement no matter what kind of law we passed anybody want to that Mr M thank you Mr chairman liba applauds president Trump for nominating a fims administrator for Senate confirmation it is important to have an administrator to drive change within fima and fza needs that change
▶ 1:06:49to improve the use of new technologies an administrator can also help reassure the American public that comprehensive regulations govern pipeline safety that fza is on the case and like the modes of other Transportation networks can reassure the American public that this transportation system is safe anyone else Mr Paris so um I think not having a confirmed administrator shows that there are some
▶ 1:07:19it gives an uncertain regulatory environment and um if if there is a confirmed administrator it shows that the government is serious about tackling these issues so I I think it's very important that we do so Mr tayor thank you Mr chairman uh yes we would also support having that uh that individual uh confirmed but we also can support and and make sure that we work with the current fem Administration and make sure that we continue to improve on safety and and we've been able to do so through the last Administration
▶ 1:07:50Mr K yeah my my hope and expectation is that P line safety is a bipartisan issue that rises above politics and I think we've seen that through all recent administrations including the last Trump Administration under skip Elliot's leadership and seeing two members of that team um returning and Paul and Paul Roberti and Ben kotchman leads me to Hope and expect that safety forward leadership will continue so if
▶ 1:08:22um I mean pipelines are the safest moste of Transportation by far we understand that but um are the safety uh rules regulations laws and other things enough uh maybe just undirected by a not having a leader or is there something else we should be doing anybody want to take on that one uh it's great
▶ 1:08:52that pipeline incidents are declining 12% overall and 12% on incidents impacting the pipeline environment but our goal is zero incidents Congress has a role in that through pipeline safety authorization so does fza technology is improving engineering analytics are improving the way to improve pipeline safety further is to update fza regulations to use this new technology and knowhow through pipeline safety demonstration pilot programs and then updating of fim's
▶ 1:09:22regulations anyone else Mr Taylor thank you Mr chairman yes I'll I'll build off what Mr Black just said we we also agree with continuing to leverage new technologies we're part of several different associations organizations one of them being pipeline research Council International where funds are collected and and developed to uh improve technology and figure out ways to leverage that new technology and incorporate it so sometimes fims is not as quick to adopt those new technologies and so we'd be looking for FSA to
▶ 1:09:53uh find Avenues to be able to do that if it's recommended practices as if it's new technologies but trying to leverage those as quickly as we can just to to improve pipeline safety Miss Paris um I think first consideration is what we're doing here today is getting all the stakeholders involved and and talking about these things I mean it's important that we all understand I don't understand what my colleagues here do every day and I don't expect them to know what I do every day so it's important for us to have these discussions um another point that they had made is this evolving technology
▶ 1:10:23and for us as excavators the GIS mapping is what stands out out to us the most most uh the technology is readily available and uh we really feel that it would help industry yes well there's um I know there's been advancements just in the last 10 years as far as what's underneath the Earth and it's a beautiful thing that can be done beautiful technology it works um is that lacking in our industry
▶ 1:10:54we don't see it yeah um I mean we're basically given a a static black and white map um or a drawing that shows where utilities are and half the time um they're not correct so we we don't see the GIS mapping involved in our industry yet Mr K yes I'd just like to say that you know the goal is not to be the safest form of transportation of hazardous materials the the goal is zero incidence and you know one way to make some meaningful movement towards
▶ 1:11:24that is the wi spre adoption of Safety Management Systems thank you very okay Titus your recogniz question thank you Mr wer uh as I said Nevada was the first state to have annual uh inspections and surveys of all the natural gas pipelines uh rather than every five years we do it annually it's a triple wind we find leaks earlier
▶ 1:11:54which improves safety we reduce greenhouse gases and we create jobs more people are surveying for these lines uh Mr Kum if we had a National Standard would you expect to see similar results in other states we could have these three goals Nationwide yes absolutely I agree um a good leak detection and repair program with good standards on leak detection technology um has multiple benefits um
▶ 1:12:24um many of which you listed um primarily for us the biggest benefit is better safety outcomes we continue to have too many home explosions and too many people dying from um um from these leaks on pipelines and um um you know Leak Detection uh standards and strong repair criteria will make a difference on that and uh and so we're strong supporters of it um many states or some states have adopted those like Nevada and that's
▶ 1:12:54one wonderful to see um some operators do go above and beyond and um have those strict standards for themselves but what we really need is what Congress asked fims to do in 2020 and that's set a National Standard where we know that all operators are held to the standard of um of finding leaks on a regular basis and repairing those leaks promptly uh as I mentioned in my remarks earlier there were knowledge of leaks in some of these accidents but they just weren't fixed how about this
▶ 1:13:25sanctions on companies that don't fix the leaks even if they know about them would those be adequate in the last uh legislation that came out of this committee or should we look at that uh I'm sorry could you repeat the question one more time well if you if you discover a leak but you don't fix it and it results in an accident what are the consequences sure uh yes U we've we've seen the consequences over and over unfortunately of home explosions and and fatalities of course not
▶ 1:13:55what are the bad consequences for the environment I mean what are the consequences for the company that found the leak and didn't fix it um well that is left up to the uh enforcement to uh the investigation whether it's an NTSB investigation and they they find the root cause analysis or if it's fims or the state program that investigates um if the regulator finds that they were out of compliance and that they should have determined determine that it was a hazardous leak that they didn't repair um they they they could be held liable with enforcement
▶ 1:14:26um but the the regulations are not written very specifically as to how they should appropriately grade a leak and what they determine to be hazardous and I think the the draft Ru scale of fines or penalties or anything like that is just kind of yeah there there is a standard as to um fines that are charged when an operator has found out of compliance It's just sometimes it's difficult to find an operator out of compliance when the regulations are not written very prescriptively as to how they should
▶ 1:14:56handle leaks and do you think the legislation that came out of this committee last time deals with that sufficiently well the the pipes Act of 2020 directed fimsa to uh write rules on um finding leaks and repairing any leak that could be deemed hazardous and so we would expect fimsa to interpret that rule to do exactly what we're talking about be prescriptive about how to grade leaks and and how to ensure that they're promptly well
▶ 1:15:26without this standard in place since the legislation didn't pass what you mentioned some companies do it themselves I mean they are good companies they want to be safe themselves could y'all address what does a company do does it take it on itself to have these annual leaks uh inspections that sort of thing brag about yourselves and tell us what you're doing if even without this standard in place Mr black or Mr Taylor pipeline operators uh regulat by Fina have requirements for
▶ 1:15:56fixed intervals for inspecting their pipes through smart pigs that collect that travel through the pipe and they develop a risk-based schedule if there are features that need to be researched more frequently through more spark pigs they will we're using Advanced analytics right now with better predictive models to understand if we find a sign of corrosion or cracking or something when is the best time to when you need to go out there and address that before and what are the true threat threats certainly believe about the importance
▶ 1:16:27of doing smart pigs through pipelines and assessing features on the schedule that they need to be before an issue can become a problem Mr Taylor yes uh for the natural gas industry and for the transmission side we actually do more frequent patrols than what you're describing so for class one and two you will do once per year but then in class three and four higher populated areas it's more frequent than that high consequence areas you also have patrols so you're again looking for those
▶ 1:16:57leaks that could be detrimental could be hazardous and making sure that you respond appropriately to address those so from a transmission side we're out there more frequently than what describing uh uh and I'll just say that um patrols are not the same as surveys and are not always done with um Leak Detection technology um many operators of course do um but they're not required in the regulations thank you thank you Mr Mr
▶ 1:17:27Larson do you have questions some say yes some say sure go ahead kind of going out of turn and I I appreciate that um uh for variety reasons a lot going on today uh but my first question is for Mr Kum in the 2020 pipes Act Congress created a grant that the pipeline safety Trust trust receives uh to provide technical assistance to communities
▶ 1:17:58and individuals and support of pipeline safety and what's your what does your organization do with that dollars yes this has been really critical funding for our organization and we're grateful to Congress for authorizing it and to fimsa for awarding it um we've spent the money on a number of ways to improve um to offer technical assistance to communities and we really see that as a way to improve U public engagement among the public the pipeline industry and The Regulators um one of the ways to
▶ 1:18:28improve uh public engagement and to offer technical assistance is to educate the public um so we've used grant money uh on a number of things including a primer on pipelines that we call the briefing papers um it's a 15-page document um that or 15p part document it's much longer than 15 pages um that includes information just such as the basics of how pipelines work how they're regulated um how to find information about pipelines through the national pipeline mapping system um and the
▶ 1:18:58fimsa database and a lot of information about emergency response and spill response planning we've also produced guides um that are stakeholder specific like a landowners guide to pipelines and local government guide to pipelines um we also use the grant money for some of our staff time um um we we get a lot of calls from members of the public a lot of them that live along rights of way that find Us online and they're often angry frustrated um haven't gotten a lot of answers from from anyone
▶ 1:19:29and we maintain a good working relationship with um uh with fimsa with a lot of the state Regulators um with the pipeline trade associations and with a lot of individual operators so we're often able to um talk to these folks find out why they're so frustrated and connect them with the right people how many how many staff do you have uh we have about 10 staff total and yeah uh yes and all in Bellingham no uh we have about half her in Bellingham and half her are spread
▶ 1:19:59out um Co showed us that we were able to work remotely yeah um so it's been over 20 years since much of the pipeline industry began implementing Integrity management um has Integrity management improve pipeline safety compared to more prescriptive regulatory approach in the view of PST yeah Integrity management is a a bit of a mixed bag um there are some areas you can look to that um we've seen Improvement I think um the distribution Integrity Management program um also known
▶ 1:20:29as dimp um while there's still lots of room for improvement um we can see some real progress there since dim has been implemented um parts of transmission Integrity management have proven to be effective you know using inline inspection tools to find corrosion has been um successful but I'll say the idea of Integrity management puts the onus on the operator to identify all of the potential threats on their pipeline Within These High consequence areas
▶ 1:21:00and uh and create a a plan to mitigate against those threats and Implement that plan so we would expect that when we look at the significant incidents within those areas where they're required to have an Integrity management that we would have lower rates of significant failures significant incidents and we actually see the opposite that there are lower failures outside of those areas so I don't have a lot of answers as to why that's not working um but I know threat identification by operators is a is a problem and um you know we
▶ 1:21:30we need to figure out what's not working and how to fix it thanks thanks uh Mr Taylor the EPA identified natural gas systems as a main source of methane emissions and the pipes Act of 2020 mandated that fimsa finalized a rule of meing leak detection and repair programs both for safety and to um cut pollution methane pollution did fsa's final rule from December reflect uh Eng input yes it followed the gpac recommendation so generally it it followed
▶ 1:22:00what we were recommending we would like the opportunity to have it notied and commented again just again there were a couple small things we'd like to improve on but ultimately yeah followed the gpac recommendations It generally did okay I'm just it's just I get when administrations come in they want to do do things differently it just seemed like both on the methane leak and the and the other one I mentioned on the CO2 pipelines that we we told fims to do this it was these were nearly done there was generally a lot of consensus like this wasn't the fight to be had but now we got to do
▶ 1:22:30it do this all over again um so it's sounds like we get to do it all over again yeah that about right yeah great um uh thank you very much back yelds back uh Mr mafa you thank you Mr chair panelists thanks for joining us here today as we uh review U
▶ 1:23:01pipeline issues and uh really remember what a a great job they do for us in this country of transporting so much energy product when you consider that there's you know over one and a half million miles of pipelines and that uh um they're the best alternative of of moving energy and certainly the most efficient and the most ecologically sound I mean when we when I hear people bad mouthing pipelines what's your alternative do you want to haul it all in trucks or try to get ships close
▶ 1:23:31enough to port to you know ports that are still many miles from Inland areas that need it it's just uh it's kind of a sometimes a fruitless argument here of course we need to improve pipeline safety but uh I guess my questions would lead to the idea that uh what are we doing to make that as expeditious as possible so going to couple thoughts from Mr Black that um I I have a figure here that said oil through
▶ 1:24:01pipelines is 13 times safer through than alternate modes and even even an Obama area administration had said that same conclusion my home state of California there's a lot being done to uh in the name of the environment and so I guess the pipelines being so strong that way you would see we have more going on with pipeline efforts in California so do you do you think Mr Black that um
▶ 1:24:31California's reluctance or Flatout opposition for permitting new pipelines to move these products is it based on a safety concern or is there something else happening there thank you Congressman as you mentioned even a fimsa report for Congress and incident data shows that pipelines are the safest way to move the energy that Americans use the study showed that 13 times more likely to have an incident on those other modes so the reason this fuel is moving on a pipeline or a train or
▶ 1:25:01a truck is because the Americans need it so if the pipeline is stopped or is never able to gain uh enter the market that fuel is moving on another mode Which is less safe so if we are making permanent decisions based just on safety we should be adding pipelines Now where's the politics entering you think yeah you don't want to touch that probably as we know California is moving rapidly or trying to rapidly move towards uh Banning uh fuel
▶ 1:25:32powered vehicles and they've already been very anti- oil expiration and um on that order so uh what else let's see uh flip we do need permitting reform what what in what in the process I know we had the pipes act in 2023 that took a a leap at that but uh what else could we be doing to reform fim's process that is basically just holding up you know you talked
▶ 1:26:02about technology a little bit on the panel there's more things we could be doing to have a have a speedier process so we actually can implement this and I'm sure there's environmental concerns when you want to go out and dig up a pipeline and make repairs or improvements what what are what are something to hold up Mr Black and Mr Taylor well fima can reduce its bu ratic red tape and Congress can help you do that there's a special permit program that Congress created because you can't do one size fits-all regulations
▶ 1:26:32for the entire pipeline Network you know wide diameter narrow diameter high pressure low pressure large small different operating environments but that special permit program which would allow a variance to the waivers an equivalent way to approve safety is basically broken because fimsa has been taking too long and applying unnecessary conditions in your bill that you reported in December of 23 you have reforms to the special permit process similarly Congress can
▶ 1:27:03tell fimsa you need to update your repair criteria your schedules to update the late to reflect the latest noow in Technologies and analytics let's use this MRI ultrasound type technology that's in smart pigs and update regulations let's use the engineering assessments that give us a more precise reading on where is an issue a problem and when it needs to be let jump Mr Taylor for a moment on that too what what are the roadblocks how do we fix them yes
▶ 1:27:33from the 118th Congress uh the class location rule that would be very beneficial if we could get that completed that would free up additional potential energy from as I mentioned during my oral testimony having um where we've maybe reduced our mop to to maximum allowable operating pressure due to a class change so allowing that flexibility the technical standards committee having gpac meet more frequently the incorporation by reference having more frequent review of those documents that are Incorporated would allow the newer
▶ 1:28:03Technologies newer uh thought processes to be implemented much quicker and be implemented and then lastly that voluntary information sharing just would allow Lessons Learned to be more widely distributed and make sure that we can account for those can these be done by executive action or do we need to pass legislation what are you run into and I'll stop Mr chairman quickly I can help the volunte information sharing needs action by Congress to create that safe space for collaboration like the airline industry need Congress to act and it's in your bill yes thank you thank you okay so uh I appreciate
▶ 1:28:34it indeed in my home for my California people that are watching really seeing it isn't about the pipeline safety it's about the politics of shutting down the use of this form of energy and not allowing pipelines or any other infrastructure Mr chairman I yeld back thank you shman re's back Miss Fi Fi thank you Mr chairman and the ranking member for holding this hearing and thank you to the witnesses
▶ 1:29:04for being here with us today Mr Kum on August 14th 2020 two teenagers discovered a puddle of gasoline in the older nature preserve near Huntsville North Carolina more than four years later with over 2 million gallons spilled it remains one of if if not the largest gasoline spill on land in the United States and cleanup is still in progress just last month there was another leak on
▶ 1:29:34this same pipeline in paen County Georgia that temporarily shut down the pipeline most alarmingly the fire department was not aware of the leak until reporters called to ask about it what measures are in place to ensure that First Responders and the public are aware of pipeline incidents and furthermore how should pipeline operators engage with the public in the aftermath of these incidents especially ones with potential
▶ 1:30:05public health concerns yeah thank you for the question um so that that that particular incident on the colonial pipeline in in Huntersville and a recent one um on an energy transfer pipeline in Pennsylvania um with jet fuel illustrate um a something that's really lacking in pipeline technology and that's on leak detection um the the the best leak detection system on a liquid pipeline um can detect down to 1%
▶ 1:30:35loss of fuel of throughput uh and that is on a large pipeline like Colonial that's a lot of product and that's what we saw in Huntersville and so a leak detection system won't necessarily pick up these small leaks that that happen over time and it often is the the public that sees those um specifically to your question um fimsa requires operators to develop an emergency response plan and and um that gets inspected U part of that plan requires the operator to notify First
▶ 1:31:05Responders and the public uh in the event of a failure um sometimes those um when a failure does happen we we learn that the emergency response plan was not appropriate or sufficient other times an operator doesn't follow the procedures in their emergency response plans and and we end up with sit situations like that Mr Taylor I also serve on the science base and Technology committee and I am interested in how new technologies
▶ 1:31:36are monitoring for methane leaks from natural gas pipelines I know for instance that the environmental defense fund recently launched a 90 million satellite to monitor both accidental and intentional methane gas releases did iner work with fimsa on the final Leak Detection rules required by the 2020 pipes act and do any of in's um companies use similar technology
▶ 1:32:07to monitor for leaks so that I know some Inga companies are utilizing satellite Technologies based off of the leak detection repair rule as it was proposed and worked through the process that wouldn't be sensitive enough for leak detection capabilities of what we're trying to achieve so we are trying to utilize new technologies where we can um where there are more um laser based technologies that are applied
▶ 1:32:37to uh flights so it could be fixed wi aircraft it could be helicopters but those are some additional technologies that are able to detect a more sensitive leak so meaning sensitive detecting a much smaller leak along the pipeline RightWay but satellites today are not able to achieve that sensitivity so it would be a very large leak so like you mentioned maybe it's a where you intended to vent a lot of of gas for whatever reason if you were doing work or if there was an emergency event maybe it can detect those types of things but it's not going to
▶ 1:33:07see those very small leaks uh Mr black according to the Department of transportation's inventory of artificial intelligence use cases fima has explored the potential of AI to augment its Ru making process fima has also funded research projects to develop AI enabled pipeline inspection tools a pipeline safety data management framework emergency response training
▶ 1:33:37and a pipeline corrosion management tool can you speak to the potential for AI to improve the pipeline safety practices of operators and emergency responders thank you congresswoman you're you're definitely on to something we think Ai and machine learning has great opportunities for improvements in pipeline safety uh pipeline technology right now produces terabytes of data from the smart pigs that travel inside a pig and it would be great to have the opportunities to
▶ 1:34:08uh continue the use of machine learning to uh tease out of the data issues before there a problem in your bipartisan Bill last time you have a voluntary information sharing program that will create a safe space for operators and regul ators and stakeholders in the industry to talk more about how to use that data and it will help thank you Mr chairman i y back K yields back Mr stalber you recognized thank you very much uh Mr Black I appreciate
▶ 1:34:38that comment in order for us to win the AI War we need energy via the pipelines uh Mr Taylor what is the natural gas pipeline sector's perspective on the value of F's advisory can you ask the question one more time the what's your perspective on the advisory committees okay I'm sorry yes thank you Congressman uh very valuable having that meeting allows uh discussion of various new topics
▶ 1:35:08new technologies different ways to address safety concerns if we are seeing new things pop up that we're not aware of or that's something new that we can bring the the players together the different parties together and think about okay what is the right way to tackle this how do we try to strive for zero incidents across the pipelines so it's extremely important allows these new rules that we're talking about again like class location rule how do we try to get that completed we're going to need to have another gpack discussion so having that meeting as frequently as we can again we the last
▶ 1:35:39uh Congress had two times per year the current Charter says four times per year somewhere in that range would be extremely helpful to continue to have the dialogue the conversation and move roles forward move new thoughts forward move new technologies forward I think that would you agree age that uh gpac has the ability if technology arises in between those meetings to call a session to say here here's new technology here's where we can make uh it safer and we can implement it sooner rather than later so that's set up through fims fza
▶ 1:36:09has to organize those discussions and get that meeting organized and so it's really we we appreciate the benefit from Congress to try to get this completed and enforce that discussion because it takes a lot of work but it it's ultimately very important to improve safety and advance that uh do you think holding more frequent advisory meetings with key pipeline safety stakeholders strengthens fim's Ru making process it would definitely approve the process because again as as we talk through these rules regulations we get the right
▶ 1:36:39parties together make sure that we're considering all aspects because again it's extremely beneficial to get the public side together get the industry side together get the state entities because through the last uh gpack when we talked through Eldar we talked through class location everybody brought in their different thoughts and their different concerns to make sure we come out with the the best regulation we can ultimately we want something that comes out that's technically accurate as well because if something's put out there that we can't meet that's not going to be beneficial to the industry that's not going to be beneficial to the public right and so I think that's
▶ 1:37:09those are some things that will come out of that meeting uh I would just say that we know the pipelines are a very safe and effective way of of moving energy and I think all panelists here agree that safety is the the number one priority I think that if we if we met more often and used that technology and actually brought it to to fruition I do believe uh we can make it even safer and this means that Mr Kum would be out of a job if we make it completely safe because then he couldn't come
▶ 1:37:39here and talk about more safety but in in all in all with all due respect I think it's important I think this is a very very healthy discussion there's that balance you know uh Mr Kum I read your your testimony and it's very sad when we have deaths right but I do believe that that the industry is doing the best they can with the information given to them I don't believe it's anything nefarious we want to move together uh safely uh in this uh Next Century and with the
▶ 1:38:10technology we have because if we don't move that energy we won't win the AI War if we don't move that energy more people in the northern climates are going to have difficulty getting through the winters so I think it's important that that we understand and the value of the pipelines and the safety is the number one priority so I just want to thank all the witnesses for being here Mr chair thank you uh for holding uh this uh very important hearing and I yield back gentan yields back SES
▶ 1:38:40thank you Mr chairman and ranking member uh for holding this hearing uh look forward to continuing discussions on how we can keep pipelines safe uh but active in our communities uh as some of you may know that on May 28th 2024 natural gas fuel explosion occurred at the realy tower building in Youngstown Ohio uh I don't represent uh Youngstown Ohio that was the former 13th congressional district and I hope this line of questioning does not continue to confuse people as to what communities I represent but it is important uh to bring up because
▶ 1:39:10it is a significant topic of discussion uh the explosion occurred at the base of the building destroying the facade throwing glass brick and other debris onto the sidewalk and causing the first floor of the Chase Bank to collapse into the basement the explosion tragically killed 27-year-old Bank employee akill Drake who was found deceased in the basement along with nine other people who sustained injuries that required hospitalization the significant structural damage to the 13-story business a building which contained the bank and other offices as well as a few residences
▶ 1:39:40people deserve to feel safe in their homes and in their workplaces and I want to express my sincere condolences to ail's family and everyone else whose lives was lives were impacted uh or been turned upside down due to this devastating explosion at the time of the explosion a four-person scrap removal crew was working at the building's basement to remove and relocate utilities and preparation for a city's Road Improvement project the NTSB found that during the work a scrap removal worker cut through an inactive but still
▶ 1:40:11pressurized service line resulting in a gas leak and a subsequent explosion according to the NTSB the explosion occurred just 6 minutes after the service line was cut the NTSB says the investigation will focus on the pipeline operators procedures and practices for meter removal recordkeeping and abandoning gas facilities ownership of the inactive service line the companies associated with the realy tower building and the scrap Cruise contractor's operational practices and policies for work Crews however while NTSB continues their investigation
▶ 1:40:41to this tragedy the explosion has had long lasting consequences to the community especially those who called uh the building home and those who had businesses there in the aftermath the 100y old building uh needed to be demolished forcing residents of the neighboring apartment complex uh to be displaced for months while demolition occurred this tragic pipeline explosion in the following displacement of residents demonstrates why this community this committee takes issues of pipeline safety so seriously we must continue to
▶ 1:41:11work together to prevent accidents like these from happening again including taking the ntsb's report and recommendations into account so Mr km uh how are pipeline operators supposed to indicate that a gas line is inactive yeah thank you for that question um as as I understand it there are no requirements for marking or identifying uh inactive service lines unless a one call um has been initiated and in that case they would um when there is an inactive service line operators
▶ 1:41:41have some options on on how to um um deal with that how to discontinue that um that line some of which allow pressurized gas to be in that section of the inactive service line and so we would love to see more specificity um in the regs around this thank you and Mr Paris just a a pretty broad question have you seen accidents like this before where an excavator thought an inactive gas line meant that it could be cut and if
▶ 1:42:12so how should this type of accident be characterized as excavator damage or recordkeeping um so to answer your first question yes we we see this um there are many times that we come across abandoned old lines where we we excavate and break those lines and have to either make that repair or or come up with another plan um I I'd like to go back to the importance of mapping and I I do think it is um an issue with what data we given and and shown
▶ 1:42:42before excavation I know some of the a lot of the topics and incidents that we've talked about today are after pipeline construction is done and our job as excavators is over but there's also an importance of getting those lines marked um before construction starts when we're building these things in the ground from the start so thank you Mr Paris you did an incredible job because my next question was going to be about mapping and so you already answered in the first question so with that Mr chair I yield back the remainder of my time Char we back Mr
▶ 1:43:12Nils your Breck uh thank you Mr chairman and thank you to the witnesses that are here today I'm happy uh that this subcommittee is kickstarting the pipeline reauthorization process again I I felt that last congress's committee we produced an excellent bill it passed out of this committee on a bipartisan basis I would like to commend both sides of the aisle both sides working on this for the hard work and producing a great Bill uh it is a shame it's a shame that our Senate colleagues they failed to have any
▶ 1:43:42hearing on this pipeline reauthorization installed the momentum we all garnered and as we look to examine the pipeline reauthorization Bill there are several priorities that I wish to talk about and and raise awareness as a former law enforcement official I I strongly believe we need to protect we have to protect our critical infrastructure Mr Black you can can you talk about some of these environmental extremists and they're out there who encourage violence against these uh pipeline infrastructure and
▶ 1:44:12why is this dangerous and and what was included in the previous Bill to counter these these activists there have been violent attacks on Pipelines and there are loopholes in the energy statutes that prevent full prosecution of of all of them uh there have been attacks on pipelines before they have gone into service and they're not covered and then there have been attacks on pipelines operating right now to turn a valve
▶ 1:44:43now a pipeline is a safe uh industrial piece of equipment operated by trained Personnel but not somebody who's just turning a valve and that could hurt them eles the public or the environment this committee and thank you for your role as prior chairman of the subcommittee uh would close those loopholes uh protest fine violent attacks on pipelines can hurt themselves the public and the environment and higher civil penalties as well we need to find these people uh thank you uh Mr Paris it
▶ 1:45:13seems uh most believe that exemptions to the one call or that 811 process are detrimental they're detrimental to damage prevention can you provide any examples of these types of exemptions and why you would want them reduced or eliminated uh yeah so some of the examples of exemptions specifically in the state of Pennsylvania include uh Municipal Utilities that are not required to be a part of the 811 or one call system therefore when a one call is placed
▶ 1:45:43they do not have to go and mark the lines uh another one example is agriculture um so I believe in state of Pennsylvania uh they do not requ they are not required to put a one call in anything above 18 in um we do find more than not that when Excavating we come across these lines and um we do our due diligence um we don't get a positive response rate from the locate sure we go to pothole and it visualize where these lines are uh they're not where they're where they say they are or they're
▶ 1:46:13not marked at all um so yes these exemptions um are hard for our industry uh in construction and Excavating I can't agree with you more you know one of the greatest Provisions in the previous Bill uh was the section uh 28 inspection of these inservice breakout tanks I know API isn't here but these these breakout tanks you know they're a critical part of the liquid energy product you know supply chain uh the breakout tanks are used
▶ 1:46:43to store product uh that is not currently in the line uh to allow for optium sequencing and to temporarily hope product you know from the main pipeline I believe there are more than 8,500 breakout tanks in service uh that support hazardous liquids pipelines operations uh and and I find you know operators are required to inspect these inservice breakout tanks in according to FS of regulations right uh Tank engineering design we all about safety everybody's
▶ 1:47:14concerned about safety I agree safety is should be the top priority the the engineering design in these tanks and the liner performance has improved drastically improved dramatically over the past 10 to 15 years as demonstrated by the the fimsa data I guess there's there's uh FSA says an incident data for the 12year period from 2010 to 2022 shows a 0.55% incident rate from releases from
▶ 1:47:44tank uh floors due to cracking or corrosion um and allowing operators to to base inspect frequency on risk modeling as outlined by API uh will ensure that these inspections are not conducted unnecessarily while again keeping safety in the front of mine I'm assuming Mr Black you would agree with these risk-based inspections I mean it takes like 30,000 manh hours I mean you got to drain the whole damn thing you got to put somebody down in there
▶ 1:48:14we should have the technology to do this and and and do it based on risk absolutely Congressman fza should not be requiring inspections of a storage tank on a fixed interval when the technical standard now that EPA and many states have adopted is for risk-based inspections it reduces worker safety threats air pollutant emissions hazardous waste yes thank you Mr Taylor I'm assuming you'd agree thank you sir yes Congressman I yeld back chman y's back
▶ 1:48:45M Freedman you recognized thank you chair Webster and ranking member Titus and for the witnesses for coming here today unfortunately Cali is no stranger to Natural Gas transmission pipeline disasters uh 15 years ago of course we had the explosion in the San Bruno neighborhood in Northern California where um where several people were killed and 47 million um uh uh standard cubic feet of natural gas was released um I believe eight
▶ 1:49:15people were killed and about 38 homes were destroyed and you know we all still grieve for them in California and closer to home for me and Los Angeles thousands of people have are still suffering Health impacts because of the leak at alicio Canyon so um the question is are we now safer since San Bruno and have we put into place everything we need to keep our community safe and I believe the answer is no because the last two years have been the deadliest two-year period for pipelines since the San Bruno explosion in the
▶ 1:49:45past two years alone 30 people have tragically lost their lives due to pipeline safety incidents and I hope to work with the subcommittee um with everyone on the subcommittee to develop robust standards to prevent these disasters from occurring now La has a high number of liquid and natural gas pipelines through very densely populated areas including in my district in Glendale in Burbank Los Angeles and passadena uh during the LA fires um we saw a lot of ignitions happening
▶ 1:50:15be you know at the homes that were impacted by fire because the natural gas pipelines in the the the natural gas in the homes was on fire I toward the Eaton Canyon area one and two and three days after the fire and those plumes of natural gas Flames came up from thousands and thousands of homes in fact there were victims walking around their former homes looking to collect their personal items trying to navigate around seven eight foot tall walls of flame in their houses because those natural gas
▶ 1:50:45pipelines were still on and they were still on fire and I saw ignitions two days later happening because of winds pushing those flames around so my question um for Mr Taylor is what did your members what what steps did they take during those fires to minimize that kind of incident and why were those should those have still been those ignitions still been happening two three days after the fire how do we make sure that we don't have the public walking through
▶ 1:51:15these burn areas through their homes while they have to navigate around very intense Flame plumes I don't even know what to call them coming out of their former homes yeah so um thank you Congressman congresswoman um the that specific type of fire and that specific type of instance would be tied more towards the distribution system and so again from a transmission side we could potentially isolate don't know the specific details of of all the situation there and
▶ 1:51:45how that gas is being fed to that exact location in the areas you're speaking of but that would be more of a distribution type Focus distribution type question on on how they could potentially isolate those those areas okay and just so that you have it in your head we're talking thousands of homes an entire you know more than one neighborhood so not just one house at a time but you had entire neighborhoods that were impacted by this uh Mr Taylor as you know better than me fire valves are inexpensive spring-loaded valves that are designed to melt
▶ 1:52:16before the pipeline fails sealing the pipeline and preventing natural gas from fueling fires and these kinds of incidents why is it important to install fire valves and Gas Distribution pipelines especially for communities like we have in Los Angeles that are fire prone and earthquake prone just disaster prone in general and if you're asking me Mr Karen but whoever yeah again from our standpoint that would be more distribution focused we we wouldn't have that that type of application
▶ 1:52:46for transmission pipelines but but it would make sense for distribution I'll let Mr Kum answer the question though as well yeah thank you for that question and I'm so sorry about the devastation in in your district and and around your state um and yes what the what you're talking about um is on the the Distribution Systems which are the service lines that go into each home and building um and you can install these fire valves on on service lines very easily um and they have a low melting
▶ 1:53:16point polymer that holds the valve open and when they're exposed to heat that polymer melts and the valve automatic closes um because we see in times of emergency it's often um difficult and it takes time to shut off the valves around a system on a distribution system um and so these would in the case of a fire whether it be a home fire um that started you know in the kitchen and spread or if it's something um more widespread like a like a wildfire through a community um U these could mitigate
▶ 1:53:47the extra damage caused by the gas service to the homes thank you both for for your answer and I back yields back Mr Owens you're recognized thank you uh cherman Webster and W member Titus uh I want to thank you again for today's hearing and O uh opportunity to learn about the American industry and Innovation um it can be liberated from the Yoke of outdated and over overregulation operating under expired authorizations
▶ 1:54:17pipelines deserve this focus and consideration due to the positive impact they have on everyday life Liv um heating our homes cooking our food to powering American manufacturing it's important uh we take these opportunities today to shatter any Mis truths about pipe Rimes impact on the environment I have a couple questions and a few comments um Mr Mr Black can you explain uh how pipelines often result in lowering carbon dioxide emissions pipelines
▶ 1:54:47are primarily liquid pipelines are primarily powered by electricity and the other modes that energy could fly could travel over diesel generates the power for those pumps sorry it's diesel emissions related to train and truck so there are less carbon emissions we are the most environmentally friendly way to move the liquid energy that Americans use okay thank you have another question for you for those who are not aware pipelines is specifically liquid trans transmission pipelines
▶ 1:55:17are one of the most heavily regulated Industries in this country can you describe the U the multiple layers of safety regulations placed on these pipelines and uh do these um do more regulations make people and environments more safe well you're right uh liquid pipelines very heavily regulated federal state and even sometimes local it starts right here right with oversight over the industry and over fima and telling fima what it should do and then fima as the the regulator the enforcer
▶ 1:55:47States uh can have intrastate regulations states can partner partner with fimsa to be the inspector even of an interstate Pipeline and then in some cases there are local requirements about pipeline activity or construction so very carefully regulated comprehensive set of regulations few gaps okay uh the last I had that last question do more regulations make people and environment more safe if they're smart regulations right sometimes we have fimsa being maybe 20 years behind
▶ 1:56:18it would be better beneficial for the environment if we would update those but smart regulation absolutely has been contributing to the decre the continued decrease in pipeline safety incidents okay just have a a few comments here uh through various pipes uh acts passed through through this committee Congress continues to authorize Innovative Technologies and practices that would improve safety in this field I want to repeat that we continue to authorize Innovative Technologies and practices that would improve the safety
▶ 1:56:48and yet unfortunately there's been no imple implementation of this Innovation due to Biden's Bureau uh bureaucratic hurdles the intent the intended pilot programs never move forward and and the authorization for programs have have laxed this unfortunately is another example of the free market industry moving faster than a non-innovative cultural bureaucratic government uh we will never know uh uh how much damage could have been mitigated or lives saved if bureaucrats just got out of the way and just let this process move forward
▶ 1:57:19for those who watch I just want to just make sure you understand seeing here this is what's called the innovators uh this is what you guys do you every single day of your lives you have a passion for it you have an interest in things that we don't have interest in in doing and what you expect very simply is predict predictability to be given opportunity of the best service to get a great reputation so you can make a great profit and thousands of Americans benefit from that uh we have to recognize that innovators is where this this is will
▶ 1:57:49be changed I will say this I'm I'm thank that we have a majority now of of innovators uh people have been in business with themselves uh we're on your side we're going to figure out how to listen to you and provide Innovative legislation and we have a president who understands what Innovation is all about who wants this industry to drive the world's U economy so I'm excited about where we are today just know that we're listening and we're looking forward to getting more impact from people like yourself this all you stakeholders to make sure that uh that we truly do make make our Mark
▶ 1:58:19in the world so thank you so much uh I you back gentan yous back Mr Carson thank you chairman and thank you ranking member um thank you all regarding our critical Transportation infrastructure including infrastructure can you describe some of the most important cyber security and information technology challenges that have to be addressed considering the growing number of malign actors that need to be uh reeled in
▶ 1:58:50um how how how what are your thoughts about the ransomware attacks on entities like the colonial pipeline uh company which disrupted gasoline supplies throughout the East Coast how many of these issues impacted were impacted by insufficient Staffing and basically Legacy equipment uh are there any specific ways that our committee can provide assistance regarding these issues and vulnerabilities quite frankly
▶ 1:59:22I can first take a take a shot at answering that uh so from our standpoint we know it's critically important we know uh we're critical infrastructure so we as Ino member companies are are trying to take additional steps to help prevent that and try to address it uh but it's my focus is more fimsa related so I don't get more into the TSA and and various other areas that that uh would be regulate regulatory uh introduction for additional
▶ 1:59:52cyber security measures but we definitely know as an industry it's critically important and we're taking additional steps to to mitigate concern you're absolutely right Congressman cyber security is very important the threats are real that pipeline operators face and they're facing them every day uh the way that these operators are trying to address them is through improved cyber security technology and defenses uh developing industry standards on the use of cyber security to protect the SK systems
▶ 2:00:23that power the operation of the pipeline and then partnering with government CIS Department of Homeland Security to help the uh the National Security Personnel tell us what they can about threats including in classified settings very important to protect our pipeline infrastructure from cyber threats Congressman I'd like to touch on cyber security when it comes to GIS mapping because a lot of the questions that we receive when we talk about GIS mapping is well how can we protect that data um and we obviously
▶ 2:00:53see that that's a potential issue but I'd like to point all of your attention to a case study that's being done in Minnesota where they're doing a um a task called distributive data where they are giving the excavators and the people involved the utilities and Facility Owners that data for the life of the ticket and only for the life of the ticket so it is a way to make sure that the data is be is being secured so just wanted to mention that thank you yes sir um a little different perspective on Cyber sec security you know
▶ 2:01:23um as Integrity management regulations require an operator to identify every potential threat against their system and I don't think cyber security has historically been included in those potential threats but it is a Potential Threat and it should be part of an Integrity management plan yes sir thank you all yel back chairman
▶ 2:01:55thank you uh the chair now recognizes Mr Garcia Mr Garcia thank you uh Mr chairman ranking member and of course uh our four uh Witnesses I'd like to take a moment to first uh acknowledge that uh last week in my district in the town of Cicero Illinois uh there was an explosion and it killed uh one person it is of course under investigation
▶ 2:02:25the cause of the explosion uh will be determined in part uh by that uh investigation and of course it's so important that fima uh be able to support State Pipeline safety inspectors in their work so um let me begin uh my questions uh Mr Kum uh the the state of Illinois recently passed the laww pausing the development
▶ 2:02:55of new carbon dioxide pipelines as you are probably aware until a federal safety standard exists for those pipelines in fact the bill that this committee passed last year required fimsa to complete a rule making establishing minimum safety standards for gaseous carbon dioxide pipelines my question is this uh why why is it important to set Federal safety standards
▶ 2:03:26before we build more carbon dioxide pipelines in your opinion yeah thank you for the question and I want to um start by saying that this past Saturday marked the 5year anniversary of the um Denbury failure in satara Mississippi that sent uh 45 plus people to the hospital um that night five years ago so there there are gaping regulatory gaps in um in the minimum safety regulations for carbon dioxide pipelines
▶ 2:03:56um depending on the phase of of the CO2 it wouldn't be subject to any minimum safety regulations um and the regulations fall short in a number of other areas including emergency response and plume dispersion modeling um impurities and a host of other areas and that draft fimsa rule um um that was submitted for publication did did a good job addressing most of those risks um uh there is a congressional limitation on fim's Authority
▶ 2:04:26the non-application Clause that says that fimsa cannot uh adopt design construction or initial testing standards on existing pipelines um so knowing that we have these regulatory gaps some of them would fall under design or construction standards um any pipelines that get built before those new standards come out those design and construction standards if they're included in in fim's rule would not apply to what's already been built um and so we are just encouraging fimsa um to move quickly on
▶ 2:04:57its rulem so that any pipelines that are built will be following the modernized standards thank you uh my next question has to do with the proposed safety rule issued by the Biden Administration as required by the 2011 pipeline safety law but currently placed on hold one provision of the proposed rule focused on the right of way of carbon dioxide Pipelines specifically for a pipeline right away uh within
▶ 2:05:27two miles of any building operators would be required to justify why that pipeline location was chosen in addition the proposed rule would have required those operators to establish an emergency planning zone extending two miles on either side of their pipelines to make sure that there's a plan in case of an emergency I believe we can and must do more to ensure rigorous safety standards and transparency
▶ 2:05:58with communities that are impacted by these pipelines my question can you talk about the consequences Mr carum to local communities if the proposed rules don't forward sure well I think that those proposed rules did a good job addressing um the many of the regulatory gaps that we we've identified and that we're concerned about and and think could lead to um increased failures um and
▶ 2:06:28by not adopting those rules we think that um communities um could be left um with less protection and uh and so we do worry about that thank you very much uh Mr chairman uh I yield back thank you the gentleman yields back the chair now recognizes Mr Westerman for five minutes of questions thank you Mr chairman thank you to the witnesses for being here today and important subject when we talk about uh pipeline safety and Innovation for the future but you know an area of
▶ 2:06:58concern that I have is us actually being able to build pipelines we already know they're very uh a very safe and efficient way of transporting gases and liquids uh yet we have a burdensome Pro permitting process that makes it very difficult to build pipelines here in our country and we have probably a bigger need for more pipeline distribution systems than we've ever had especially when you look at the demands for more electricity and what are we going to use to generate that
▶ 2:07:28electricity we have an abundant amount of natural gas here but if we can't move it to where it's needed then um it doesn't do us nearly as much good so what I would like to ask each witness is how you perceive if permitting delays are driving up proces If U if all this duplicative permitting and the the Jud IAL review process does that add anything to safety of pipelines and what reforms specifically
▶ 2:07:59in the permitting area do you think would be beneficial for uh being able uh not just to make pipelines safer but to be able to build more pipelines I'll start with you Mr Black thank you congressman and I represent liquids pipelines and I want to thank you for your personal leadership on permitting reform you're absolutely right it's very important as we've been discussing today the pipeline is the safe mode of transporting liquid energy that Americans use so if we can expand pipelines we're improving safety on pting reform we support
▶ 2:08:29and this will not be a surprise to you uh quick Decisions by permitting agencies judicial reform so entire permits are not thrown out by some small provision and then continued use of the Nationwide permit 12 process for pipelines if we can move better permitting reform that allows for durable permits we'll be able to expand the safe safest energy Transportation infrastructure we have thank you Mr Black Mr Taylor thank you Mr Congressman uh as Mr Black stated
▶ 2:08:59again very similar uh situation for the natural gas side we definitely need permitting reform we would definitely support that obviously we' like to advance our projects as quickly as we can uh one step we could take in the very quick would be the classification role again that would free up some additional capacity because that would allow maximum allowable operating pressures to be reinstated back to where the original were and that's going to build some capacity within existing pipeline infrastructure so that would be extremely helpful for us it would be extremely helpful to get that rule completed
▶ 2:09:29as quickly as possible thank you Mr Taylor Mr Paris so from the excavator side when permitting comes into play um if permits are not approved in a timely basis then we are out of work and we have to put employees on layoff or they're on unemployment um we've seen that in the past um I'd like to emphasize though that we're working with our customers in the safest fashion that we can and we're always looking to improve um the way we can be safe when it comes to pipeline infrastructure um back in the day um
▶ 2:09:59it was about a finger pointing kind of thing but now it's about working together and talking about what the real issues are and moving forward with that I'd also like to point out within the permitting process is part of the design phase of the project so um what's important to get these permits through faster and more safer is getting back to these basics in in what I believe these Mark utilities and and mapping and making sure that these are laid out within the permitting process good Mr Carol yes
▶ 2:10:29um so this is really outside of the focus the the primary focus of our organization focuses really on safety regulations um but I will say as a public safety Advocate I am grateful for a robust permitting process um that includes opportunities for public input um I see it as a you know a balance between efficiency and responsibility and um um I'm I'm sure there are places where you know efficiency can be um progress on efficiency can be made and we'll
▶ 2:11:00just be there to make sure that um those um changes are responsible and and and safety forward you see that it's imbalance right now do you think the permitting laws and the uh the multiple agencies that you have to go through is that is it balanced between efficiency and and safety now or do you think we need more regul or less regulations again it's it's really outside of the main part of our work and I I am grateful for a robust process that has opportunity for public input
▶ 2:11:30all right that I yield back Mr chairman thank you the gentleman yields back uh the chair now recognizes Mr Man for five minutes questions thank you uh Mr chairman thank you all for being here today uh I'm Tracy man I represent the big First District of Kansas which is 60 primarily rural counties in the Eastern um or Western part of uh my State Kansas is 48,000 miles of gas pipelines and 11,000 miles of liquid pipelines that run throughout the state to help transport
▶ 2:12:01these Goods across the country um I believe Shing the pipelines is one of the safest and most efficient modes of transportation for energy and are essential to delivering energy from where it's produced to where it's needed around the country um handful of questions first off for you Mr Blake what are some examples of how you feel like fsma needs to modernize his requirements him regulations are over 20 years old Congressman in many aspects uh pipelines use modern Technologies
▶ 2:12:31to assess pipelines through smart pigs that travel inside a pipeline and looking for features like corrosions and cracks and then pipelines use modern engineering assessment techniques and Predictive Analytics that can help us understand with more Precision what issues need to be addressed and when so we have that information that better safety technology and that better program but fima regulations are slow to react in their 20 years old so then we need a special permit
▶ 2:13:01process to allow a variance to achieve the same level of protection but smarter but that process is broken so two ways that fimsa can improve is to allow update of repair criteria to reflect technology and then to approve the special permit process and Implement safety technology demonstration programs in a bureaucratic free way there's my next question is can you explain to the committee the potential benefits of the pipeline safety technology demonstration
▶ 2:13:31pilot program sure this would give fimsa the data to have the confidence to update their regulations we'll be able to show that new technologies traveling through the pipe and new engineering analytics will let us more efficiently focus on what we now know are the real threats on the proper schedule so if the demonstration program can help fza understand that then they'll have the confidence one more could have a demonstration program on the use of drone Technologies or satellites to
▶ 2:14:02replace the fixed wi right of ways uh patrols that pipeline operators have to do then maybe we can do more patrols for the same amount of money but not if we have inflexible fims of regulations I could not agree more we've got to embrace technology for everyone's benefit um you know including to make everything more safe um question for you Mr Taylor the class location rule is one of fsma's outstanding mandates please describe the importance of this regulation to pipeline operators yes yeah it's extremely important again it
▶ 2:14:32would allow some flexibility instead of going out and replacing say a th000 feet of pipe now I can apply subpar o or again additional assessments preventative mitigative measures I'm going to look for those specific threats that are applicable from launcher to receiver and I'm going to run a a battery of tools for that pipeline to make sure I'm I'm properly addressing or assessing those those pipeline threats it it also reduces impacts on land owners because again now I'm not either pressure testing or replacing that pipe I can run that additional technology
▶ 2:15:02through the through the pipeline and in addition it's Improvement to the environment because now I'm not going to have emissions related to doing all that additional work I can just again run the new technologies as Mr Black described great um and how long has your sector advocated for this updated rule it's been over two decades over 20 years there yes sir yeah sir well that that says a lot right there thank you all for being here today and with that Mr chairman I yield back thank you thank you the gentleman yields back I now recognize
▶ 2:15:32chairman Rouser for five minutes of questions thank you uh Mr chairman and I appreciate our panelists being here today um I hate that I had to pop out and I missed the benefit of the Q&A uh the last uh 30 35 minutes or so uh but let me um uh let me look at this or let me ask you from a broad standpoint uh as far as the transportation and infrastructure committee uh for this year next year this Congress
▶ 2:16:02what's the number one or or two items of oversight that you think are really critically important uh in this space and then from a legislative standpoint too uh obviously we're going to be working on a Surface uh reauthorization and um uh not that that deals directly obviously with with pipelines but anything in that space that you think we need to be pursuing legislatively I'm I'm curious uh about as well Mr Black start well
▶ 2:16:32hearings like today to O conduct oversight over fima encouraging them to reduce bureaucracy and red tape and embrace Innovation on legislative uh a targeted pipeline safety reauthorization Bill like you have uh work that you've been doing on continued use of the Nationwide permit program for oil and gas and in your Coast Guard reauthorization bill in the committee last Congress you allowed you encouraged the National Response Center to allow online instant notification rather
▶ 2:17:03than just making a call and waiting for someone to answer the phone those three legislative priorities would really help Mr Taylor yes sir um again as Mr Black mentioned the 118th Congress had class location R mention again for the same reasons I just me mentioned to Mr Man um the technical standards committee having that more frequent meeting with the gpac lpac that would again Advance uh pipeline safety discuss new technologies look at uh what's working what's not and and find op
▶ 2:17:33opportunities to improve the incorporation by reference evaluating what are some of the more recent documents or recommended practices that are being referenced by FSA those would be extremely important because there are some standards in there that are 20 years old we obviously know technology has significantly changed in the past 20 years so should be referencing newer documents um the voluntary information sharing that's another great aspect that we could have a a proper space to make sure that we can collect that information and can share that out so that different
▶ 2:18:03operators can learn from maybe a mistake or a mishap a near miss an incident from another operator and then that Workforce Development just trying to have fimsa have the right resources available to at their needs to be able to conduct inspections and audits as they need to I think for us um it's sounds simple but it's very complex and that's just a full and balanced Statewide enforcement of damage prevention laws which includes full participation in an 811 process um accurate and timely locating for all Facility
▶ 2:18:33Owners and the opportunity to move the needle towards GIS Karen yeah for us it's um you know the increased resources to fimsa and the state programs that was identified in in the bill um um and appreciate industry support on that as well um The increased enforcement authority to fimsa I think um will make a difference I want to reiterate support for um you know standardizing damage prevention um a couple things that
▶ 2:19:03were not in the bill um would be uh the implementation of fire Valves and then more broadly um figuring out a path forward to encourage widespread adoption of Safety Management Systems now um the next item is not directly related to pipeline safety but an but an issue of of concern of mine um several years ago we had the shutdown of the colonial pipeline uh saber security and in that realm uh talk to me about uh our strengths and
▶ 2:19:33and weaknesses and anything that uh we need to be doing as a as a congress as a house as a senate uh to help you address those issues better cyber security is very important uh we have many threats pipelines uh face every day uh the way the pipeline operators are approaching this is to increase investment in cyber security defenses develop best practices among the industry for protecting the systems that operate the pipeline and then partnering
▶ 2:20:03with government so that we can learn from the National Security and the intelligence Community about those threats so it's making sure that government has whatever resources it needs just on this issue to help identify the threats for us to partner together to so we don't have to have volunt shutdowns on ransomware like we had Colonial or cyber breaches of operating equipment important issue thank you anybody else real quick not necessarily my area of focus but just again maybe
▶ 2:20:34piggybacking off the volunteer information sharing maybe there's opportunities to better communicate uh some of the concerns or risks if we're seeing certain um issues that pop up across the industry just how do we get that information out there as quickly as possible so that all operators can put up their defense defenses or or develop new defenses whatever the the concern is but just trying to share that information more quickly more broadly so that we can address it yeah I'm out of time but any quick
▶ 2:21:04thought um the operation side's a little bit out of my wheelhouse but I had pointed to M uh Congressman Carson about a case study that's being done when it comes to GIS mapping out of the state of Minnesota and it's proven that their um work against cyber security and protection of that kind of thing is working with our kind of data um very quickly I just encourage operators to identify cyber threats uh in in their threat identification for integrity management and and mitigate against those threats as part of their integrity Management
▶ 2:21:35program in addition to um specific prescriptive cyber security regulations thank you I yield back gentleman yields back and I recognize member Burleson for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman um I just got back from a conference um a global conference um called Arc um Alliance for responsible citizenship we had world leaders from most of the western Nations
▶ 2:22:06Britain um the United States Canada a lot of the European nations and really the common theme was that we've had a lost decade if not two decades of economic growth of industrialism ization that's been that's been outsourced to countries like China that are not exactly the cleanest country you know to send your IND industry to and so the other thing that that concerned me is the question of
▶ 2:22:36you know history tends to repeat itself and about every 80 to 90 years a a you know the world Reserve currency moves to a different nation and we in the United States we're well beyond that 80 or 90 years we're at about 120 years being the world Reserve currency uh it generally follows the nation that is the industrial Powerhouse in the world the the manufacturing um you know leader that being said energy
▶ 2:23:06costs are a key driver of this um cheap abundant and affordable energy is what every manufacturer is seeking and so with that question Mr Black in your testimony you emphasized that expanding American energy production will send new supply to the market and pressure prices downward as building energy infrastructure like pipelines will help us deliver more energy to the American people can you highlight on why investments in energy
▶ 2:23:36infrastructure is essential if we're going to maintain World dominance economically we have tremendous energy supplies in the United States and of course Canada with our integrated Market both in liquids and in natural gas gas when we can get that energy to Market to the people and the businesses who use it that produces downward pressure on prices if we have additional energy made that we don't need in this country we can sell it in the World Market helping our
▶ 2:24:06trade balance and helping push Global prices down and increasing Global Prosperity but in order to do that you have to be able to expand pipeline capacity in both cases it's the most economical most reliable way to move that energy to where it can be beneficially used it's my belief that it's the one common denominator that that the poor and the rich are are you know have to deal with is the costs of energy unfortunately the the poor have a much more
▶ 2:24:37as a percentage of their income greater greater harm from that those costs yes and so would you agree with me when when I say show me a a nation that is abundant in in energy and and and cost effective you know affordable energy and I'll show you a nation that is that has low poverty rates affordable reliable energy lifts people out of poverty lifts Nations out of poverty and helps them grow yes um let me ask this as far
▶ 2:25:07as um you mentioned in your testimony that smart pipeline policies will promote the pipeline energy infrastructure that we need to deliver um and and keep American Energy to dominance can you describe what is uh smart pipeline policies well one is making targeted improvements to fimsa rather than adding new mandates uh harsh penalties that aren't called for if we can make uh help the public understand that the pipeline Network liquids and gas is well regulated
▶ 2:25:38and it's safe there will be more support for that pipeline expansion we need fima on the case showing that they're doing things that they are holding companies accountable and that they're reassuring the public that pipelines are safe we'll be able to expand pipelines better than we have been thank you Mr Taylor in your testimony you highlight the important role that the gas pipeline advisory committee plays and yet since 2021 that committee has only convene three times how
▶ 2:26:08often are they supposed to convene the charter States they should be meeting approximately four times per year so obviously not meeting that uh that Charter um can you expand on the role and how that does how that impacts the industry them not meeting will impacts the industry yes sir uh so it it definitely impacts the industry because again you can get different um thought processes involved obviously there's public there's there's uh the industry there's fimsa so you're getting the the different players involved and
▶ 2:26:38discuss key safety concerns advancements technology changes uh so you're just trying to look at the regulations and figure out how can we continue to move and strive for zero incidents across the thank you Mr CH thank you Mr chairman I back gentleman yields back I recognize myself for five minutes of questions first want to thank chairman Webster and ranking member Titus for holding this hearing today and thank you uh to the witnesses for your testimony and insight
▶ 2:27:08Ohio contains over 100 pipeline operators that oversee 56,000 miles of distribution lines over 10,000 mies of transmission lines and over 1100 miles of gathering lines my district is home to the bucke express and Tennessee gas pipeline both of which provide pivotal natural gas for the state and the country the large network of pipelines I'm proud to work with my colleagues on this committee to pass legislation that ensures that our pipelines are safe across the great state of Ohio and the nation people across the country want lower energy costs
▶ 2:27:38and that means the United States needs to unleash its natural resources I'm proud that this Administration wants to prioritize oil and natural gas production to create jobs and economic development for both consumers and industries Mr Paris what has been Pennsylvania's experience with Shale gas and how have you worked to ensure that this energy is developed and transported safely so like I said before we are working with our customer on a day-to-day basis to improve safety it's uh safety is number one and it is a part of every
▶ 2:28:08task that we uh complete now as far as our local economy uh the gas industry since it has come to Pennsylvania it is bolster our local economies um we have seen businesses that were ready to shut their door ores uh be brought back to life um so we take that as a responsibility on us to make sure that we're installing these pipelines correctly and following safe practices thank you more often than not regulations have hindered industry from adopting the best technology practices
▶ 2:28:39and standards that allow for their businesses to thrive I was disappointed to learn in your testimony Mr Black about how the pipeline safety technology demonstration pilot program was created to test some of the latest some of the latest and advanced inspection programs and analytics was ineffective because of the previous administration's practices and policies Mr Black could you please elaborate on the benefits of this program if it were to be implemented properly thank you this was a great opportunity that Congress created and we missed as a nation and
▶ 2:29:09I hope that we can retry that the pipeline safety technology demonstration program was put by fima into the special permit process and the special permit process is broken there are conditions out unrelated to variances that are requested there are delays there were unusual procedures for temporary R&D programs that we just don't need so if Congress can reauthorize the pipeline safety technology pilot demonstration
▶ 2:29:39program and tell fza don't apply those unnecessary conditions let's get to work let's find a way to benefit from the newer Technologies and improve fima regulations but we'll need congressional action thank you is there anyone on the panel that disagrees that the the Congress the Congress should reimplement these uh this program okay thank you I yield
▶ 2:30:15back are there any further questions from any members of the subcommittee who have not been recognized seeing none that concludes our hearing for today I would like to thank each of the witnesses for your testimony the sub the subcommittee
▶ 2:31:18e e