▶ 0:08:28e e
▶ 0:09:25will come to order without objection the chair May declare the committee in reset at any point the purpose of this hearing is to examine the severity of America's cyber Workforce Gap and assess how the shortage of skilled cyber professionals leaves our homeland vulnerable to evolving Global threats in cyber space specifically will delve into the challenges that the public and private sectors face in recruiting training and retaining skilled cyber Talent we will also discuss possible solutions to mitigate this shortfall
▶ 0:09:56I now recognize myself for an opening statement good morning everyone uh today we're focused on the top cyber challenge we face and that is the Cyber Workforce Gap this issue has been a top priority for me and other members of this committee since last Congress and I know it is for many of you in this room as well uh there isn't a city or a state in this country not affected by this cyber Workforce Gap
▶ 0:10:27currently our nation lacks about five 500,000 cyber professionals that's a deficit of 1 million eyes and this means that many of our networks and critical infrastructure are going unwatched even while malicious nation state actors like Vault and salt typhoon Target them daily at a time when we need to go on the offensive we can barely play defense we simply don't have enough people in the right jobs with the right skills to stay on top of the significant
▶ 0:10:57cyber challenges our homeland faces we covered many of those threats in our first Committee hearing two weeks ago and you can get a glimpse of the magnitude of these threats yourself we captured them in the committee's Cyber threat snapshot you can see a little bit of that here whether we're dealing with China Russia North Korea Iran or criminal actors one thing is clear our vulnerabilities span from our heartland's Hardware to our City's
▶ 0:11:28software sometimes we're dealing with targeted attacks like ransomware and sometimes our vulnerabilities stem from poor cyber hygiene or economic models that do not prioritize cyber security but whatever the case we need to do better and we need to do better now our nation's security and prosperity depend upon a resilient cyber posture something we can only be that can only be assured by adequately preparing our pipeline of cyber professionals over the
▶ 0:11:58years there have been many in initiatives to address the Cyber Workforce Gap our Witnesses here today have been at the Forefront of some of those efforts we applaud those efforts and hope they'll continue however it's clear we need a new it's clear we need a new but complimentary approach one that brings together the public and private sectors to fill gaps at all levels of government and Industry one that creates quick Pathways for individuals who want to Pivot in their
▶ 0:12:28careers without having to complete a four-year degree one that provides Hands-On experiences for cyber professionals and training and then supports them throughout their careers one that cultivates a sense of community and service to the country like the RC program one that's accessible to all Americans and one that will finally change the decades long narrative around the Cyber Workforce Gap I leave I believe that bill is my
▶ 0:12:58uh my bill the Cyber pivot act it directly addresses all of these issues in a meaningful way and that's why I reintroduced my bill today alongside Representatives guests Jimenez Higgins strong bigs Evans mullinar eel and Rogers we've received significant support for the bill including the American Association of community colleges and I want to thank our stakeholders and would like to submit the following statements for the record advocacy blueprints business
▶ 0:13:29software Alliance cyber Innovative Innovation centers and their academic initiative cyber.org dark trace for scout Technologies foundation for defense of democracies Information Technology Industry Council the Internet Security Alliance isc2 or squared Avanti the McCary Institute Microsoft National Rural Electric corpor Association Pao Alto networks periton the R Street Institute Sentinel 1 Special competitive stud studies
▶ 0:13:59the US Chamber of Commerce without objection so ordered it's time to sign the Cyber pivot act into law and I look forward to working across the aisle to ensure that we can do so in a bipartisan manner last year we held a full Committee hearing on the cyber security Workforce Gap with government Witnesses today we will examine the perspective of the private sector thank you to our expert panel for joining us uh your diverse experiences and Academia
▶ 0:14:30critical infrastructure cyber security and not nonprofits will give us a holistic understanding of the complexities we face and bolstering our cyber Workforce and the strategies we must consider for reducing the workforce cap once and for all I look forward to this very important discussion um I now recognize the gentleman from Mississippi our ranking member uh Mr Thompson for his opening
▶ 0:15:00statement thank you thank you very much Mr chairman uh good morning I'd like to thank our Witnesses for agreeing to testify today I appreciate your expertise and your input is valuable to the committee's work on Cyber Workforce policy just over two weeks ago president Trump was sworn into office nearly every day since then there's been a White House directive undermining the federal government's ability to serve
▶ 0:15:30the American people there is confusion about which fellow Grant funds president Trump fro last week and whether the funds are still frozen the administration refuses to give Americans a straight answer about that disaster victims recovering from hurricanes in North Carolina and Florida and wildfires in California are wondering whether FEMA will still be standing after the president May made clear he'd like to shut
▶ 0:16:00down the agency and now an unelected billionaire from South Carolina South Africa Trump's co-president Elon Musk has gotten into Federal networks and is assessing Americans sensitive personal data God only knows what he's doing with Americans data or what he plans his plans are for our information he's inside the treasury Department system where he's not only
▶ 0:16:31assessing information but has the ability to change it these systems have American Social Security numbers and payment information Trump gave mus control of our nation's checkbook of a bank account funded by Americans hard-earned tax dollars we don't know what he's doing with any of it his doge team also allegedly bought a commercial server set it up in the office of
▶ 0:17:01personnel management and began assessing intimate details about Americans personal lives from home addresses to Medical histories musk is demanding access to Information Systems across the federal government to collect even more data about millions of Americans for reasons that are yet unclear these actions violate a host of federal laws and policies intent Ed to ensure data privacy and
▶ 0:17:31security and protect Federal networks leading One Security expert to describe those access to Federal data as an absolute nightmare nevertheless neither the White House nor my Republican colleagues in Congress have shown any inclination to force Elon Musk and his doge underlings to follow the law adhere to security practices or justify their unprecedented
▶ 0:18:01access to government systems and Americans data access to government it is not clear who is in fact running the country because it seems the president is either unable or unwilling to control musk either way Americans will be paying the price to be honest Mr chairman is also not clear why the commit committee would hold a hearing on Cyber Workforce at this time make no
▶ 0:18:31mistake addressing cyber Workforce challenges is a critical security priority but holding a hearing on Cyber Workforce while letting Elon Musk root around in government systems is like worrying someone might break in through the back door of your home while swinging the front door wide open I'm afraid the committee is failing to address this urgent security issue and our adversaries like China Russia and Iran
▶ 0:19:01are watching the administration do nothing having said that I be remiss if I did not point out that one of the biggest obstacles to growing a robust cyber Workforce are the Trump musk policies as I speak the federal Workforce is in a tail spin all of us are hearing from federal employees not knowing should they stay should they go there's no policy that's been outlined as to why I'm
▶ 0:19:31receiving this email telling me that I'm somehow uh not useful or value and I can understand where sister and other agencies fall uh in this Tail Spin president Trump's nominee to head the Office of Management and budget has said and I quote we want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected when they wake up in the morning we want them to not want to go to work because
▶ 0:20:02they are increasingly viewed as villains we want to put them in trauma hiring freezes are delaying the onboarding and recruitment of top cyber Talent secretary gome whose little explanation has said she wants to sisa deferred resignations offer the Administration has no authority to issue accompanied by insults about productivity
▶ 0:20:32and warnings of layoffs sent a clear message that the administration does not value its Workforce it is not loyal to it and does not prioritize developing expertise within government in short the workforce is Expendable moreover the president is openly hostile to a diverse Workforce that reflects the American people and just two weeks he's directed Federal departments and agencies to strip
▶ 0:21:03references to diversity from their website and blame diversity for a national tragedy Mr chairman I appreciate your commitment to addressing the Cyber Workforce challenge by expanding scholarships for service for Community College but under these circumstances who would want to commit to working for the government until the administration begins to treat his Workforce with more respect and turn the page on his cruel andm
▶ 0:21:33missive attitude toward diversity I cannot support new efforts to tie tuition assistance to employment with the federal government or to an employer the administration must approve despite the president despite what the president might think cyber jobs are black jobs Asian jobs Hispanic jobs and jobs for women I wish I were more hopeful that the committee would work to correct
▶ 0:22:03course on the Trump musk policies that are causing chaos and undermining security toward that end today I will introduce two resolutions of inquiry to ensure that the committee has the information necessary to evaluate whether Donald Trump and El Alon musk have adequately considered the security implications of their terrible policies the first resolution of inquiry directs the secretary to provide the committee
▶ 0:22:33documents related to security assessments associated with efforts to freeze payment of critical Homeland Security Programs that among other things support cyber Workforce training and cyber security efforts at the state and local level the second resolution of inquiry direct directs the secretary to provide the committee documents related to the impact of the hiring freeze on the Cyber Workforce as well as any of
▶ 0:23:03the security policies related to providing Doge access to DHS information systems and data additionally today committee Democrats are sending a letter to OPM requesting information about the impact of President Trump's hiring frees and deferred resignation office on the Cyber Workforce and a letter to OMB raising our grave concerns about Elon Musk unfettered
▶ 0:23:34access to Federal networks and Americans data this information is necessary to the committee's oversight obligation and Democrats will not stand by while the Trump musk Administration rips off the American people with that I again thank the witnesses for participating in today's hearing and I yield back the balance of my time the gentleman yields other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for
▶ 0:24:04the record I am pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses uh before us today and I ask that our witness Witnesses please rise and raise their right hand do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the committee on homeland security of the United States House of Representatives will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God let the record reflect that the witnesses
▶ 0:24:34have uh answered in the affirmative thank you you may be seated I'd now like to formally introduce our Witnesses Dr David russamano currently serves as the Executive Vice President for academic Affairs and is the Provost at the University of Memphis prior to his current role he served for 13 years as dean of the Purdue School of Engineering and Technology and as professor of electrical and computer engineering at the collaborative Campus of Indiana
▶ 0:25:04University and Purdue University throughout his career Dr russamano has spearheaded the growth of numerous initiatives to improve the recruitment retention and overall success of stem students Mr Robert rot Mr Robert rot serves as vice president of global training and Technical field enablement at Fort net where he is responsible for creating award-winning training and education programs for cyber
▶ 0:25:34security he also previously served as the Director of worldwide education services at that organization before joining fortnet he served as the Director of global training and enablement at Trend Micro director of the Canadian standards Association learning Institute and Senior manager of training and certification program programs at UST Mr Chris Jones Mr Jones serves as the president and chief executive
▶ 0:26:05officer of Middle Tennessee Electric as Electric Cooperative where he and Electric Cooperative where he spent uh the past 26 years Mr Jones also serves as a board member for United Communications the Tennessee Electric Association and the Tennessee Chamber he previously served as chair of the Chamber of Commerce in both Rutherford and Williamson counties as an advisory member M of the Tennessee nuclear energy advisory Council Mr Max Styer Mr Styer serves
▶ 0:26:35as president and chief executive officer of the partnership for public service he previously worked in all three branches of government prior to his current role he served as Deputy general counsel for litigation at the Department of Housing and Urban devel Development Mr Styer also previously served as a clerk for the US Supreme Court and US court of appeals for the second circuit in addition he previously worked as a special litigation council at the Department of Justice and as a staff member in the office of the United States
▶ 0:27:05of a United States Representative I thank the witnesses for being here uh today and I now recognize Mr russamano for five minutes to summarize his statement chairman green reiking member Thompson and distinguished members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today I express my gratitude to Chairman green for your overall leadership on security Workforce and for introducing the Cyber act my name is David russamano I'm a
▶ 0:27:35computer engineer by training and have the privilege of serving as Provost at the University of Memphis the University of Memphis is a Carnegie R1 University which is a designation meaning we are high- performing comprehensive research University I have devoted a significant portion of my career as an engineering Professor department chair and Dean of engineering and Technology to advance stem education focused on initiatives to grow the student Pipeline and produce successful
▶ 0:28:05student outcomes aligned with needs for example I have served as principal or co-principal investigator on National Science Foundation administered scholarships for stem and cyber core scholarship for service projects rightly so prior testimony to this committee has focused on Cyber threat to our nation presented by a variety of threat actors a parallel threat is the loss of human intellectual Capital
▶ 0:28:35that could be Marshal toward strengthening our cyber security Workforce the Cyber pivot Act is an important contribution toward mitigating these threats by expanding support for students including those pursuing Education and Training at two-year community colleges and technical schools to my knowledge these in institutions are currently only eligible as subawardees of the partnering four-year cyberp institutions
▶ 0:29:06there are significant challenges to forming comprehensive cyber security Readiness including data that shows many colleges are struggling to align education with Workforce needs for example a recent American Society for engineering education publication referenced a Forbes article by Perna in which he States quote historically institutions of Higher Learning have been slow to Pivot their offerings
▶ 0:29:36to meet current Workforce needs the inertia is real end quote the article also cites a survey in which 85% of recent college graduate respondents State quote I wish my college had better prepared me for the workplace end quote in high demand areas most notably and critically in cyber security the private sector may prefer to recruit experienced employees from other companies
▶ 0:30:06rather than creating entry-level positions and hiring new graduates of postsecondary Institutions such an approach alone contributes to an unsustainable race for talent rather than developing highly collaborative Partnerships with educational Institutions and the public sector to grow the talent pipeline at scale and in a sustainable manner a race for talent scenario may also have unintended consequence of presenting significant
▶ 0:30:36barriers to entry to the cyber security profession a service commitment proportional to student sponsorship as incorporated into cyber core and the pivot act serves as an important model for the private sector the federal government is encouraged to incentivize such a private sector service commitment especially given the depend of the us including the US military on private sector infrastructure maintained with insufficient levels of cyber resilience as noted
▶ 0:31:07by rear Admiral Montgomery in his recent testimony to this committee when private companies invest in collaborative education programs they helped the skills Gap easing the financial burden on taxpayers consideration of the Cyber pivot act also highlights the urgency for four-year institutions including comp comprehensive R1 institutions to develop and align a portion of their stem Balor degree portfolio to facilitate smooth Pathways
▶ 0:31:37from applied technology programs per a report from the education Commission of the states 31 states have policies for transferring lower division core courses and a Statewide guaranteed transfer of an associate degree however in many instances instances these articulations May exclude or not optimally artic ulate courses Knowledge and Skills acquired through applied technology programs creating a barrier to Balor degree completion which is a focus of the Polytechnic
▶ 0:32:08initiative at the University of Memphis and is described in my written remarks thank you again for the opportunity to have this conversation today thank you Dr Rano and I now recognize Mr rash am I pronouncing your correctly perfect uh for five minutes to summarize his opening statement uh chairman green ranking member Thompson and distinguished members of the committee my name is Rob Rashad and I serve as vice president of forets training institute
▶ 0:32:38I've spent my career focusing on empowering others with the skills to successfully enter in advance within the cyber security Workforce I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today on the state of America's cyber Workforce foret is a US company that is one of the largest cyber secur companies in the world while we manufacture over half of the firewalls sold worldwide our portfolio extends across nearly 60 different integrated cyber security and networking Solutions uh this
▶ 0:33:08reflects our commitment to Innovation uh as cyber threats continue to evolve in addition to fortinet's uh in addition foret operates an award-winning institute focusing on making training cyber security training available to We Believe teamwork across the public and private sector is critical to ensure strong National cyber resilience a robust and skilled Workforce is foundational
▶ 0:33:38to this resilience making today's discussion both about jobs and our national security the demand for cyber Security Professionals continues to outpace supply with over 500,000 unfilled positions in the US we annually conduct a g a skills Gap survey surveying it and cybercity decision makers with our findings compiled into an annual cyber security skills Gap report our latest research found that 75% of us organizations believe that
▶ 0:34:09the workforce Gap is escalating cyber threats and nearly 90% have experienced a breach they attribute in part to lack of cyber skills while companies are working to recruit and retain Talent more than half struggle to find Qualified professionals the cyber security Workforce Gap has been exacerbated by several interconnected challenges the most significant challenge being the persistent Reliance on traditional four-year degrees as a primary requirement
▶ 0:34:39for most roles we've observed a growing number of technical schools colleges and universities launching two-year degree programs that effectively prepare students for a range of cyber security roles waiting until high school or college however to influence career decisions is often too late just as kids talk to their parents about becoming doctors or firefighters we need to ensure that cyber threat Hunter for example becomes part of that conversation to help create that spark foret has developed cyber security awareness
▶ 0:35:09training for kada2 schools Nationwide and has made it available at no cost the curricula introduces cyber security Concepts as early as kindergarten today the program operates in 43 states by engaging students teachers and parents were sparking interest in cyber security careers early we must also do more to attract existing underutilized Talent pools a key example is military veterans moving into civilian roles many veterans possess highly relevant skills that are invaluable to cyber
▶ 0:35:39security our veteran partner organizations though often note that their members lack awareness or the confidence in how their military experience translates into cyber security careers we must unlock this wealth of talent that is both capable and well suited for the field we must also focus on reskilling and upskilling cyber professionals often face high stress and burnout and many organizations lack clear career progression paths strengthening training mentorship and career Mobility will help grow and grow a sustainable
▶ 0:36:10Workforce industry Academia and government are making progress but we must scale our efforts if enforced the proposed cyber pivot act would have a positive impact across both the public and private sector with its emphasis on cybercity scholarships for students in partnership with technical schools colleges and universities as well as developing internships and federal jobs uh job opportunities for graduates in conclusion I'm confident that with the right tools incentives and
▶ 0:36:40Partnerships we can ensure the Cyber Workforce pipeline is strengthened and that today's Workforce Gap becomes yesterday's issue to achieve this we need bold consistent action that can scale ranging from early training of our children on Cyber awareness through to technical care Career Training and efforts like the pivot act thank you for the opportunity to be part of today's discussion and I look forward to your questions thank you Mr rot I now recognize Mr Jones for five minutes to summarize
▶ 0:37:10his opening statement chairman green ranking member Thompson and distinguished members of this committee thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today my name is Chris Jones and I serve as president and CEO of Middle Tennessee Electric I am test ifying to provide my perspective as an Electric Co-op leader but also to represent the national Rural Electric Cooperative Association and the 900 electric cooperatives across the country in all these respects
▶ 0:37:41it is quite an honor to be before you today mte is the largest Electric Cooperative in the TVA region and the second largest in the United States serving more than 750,000 tennesseans our service ter includes 15,000 mies of distribution lines across 11 Middle Tennessee counties NCA is the national trade Association representing 900 electric
▶ 0:38:11cooperatives electric co-ops are not for profit electric providers and are focused on delivering affordable reliable and secure electricity to more than 42 million Americans in 48 states we are unique in the electric sector in that we operate without profit incentives and are owned and governed by the very people we serve electric co-ops were created with a mission to address the distinct challenges
▶ 0:38:41associated with providing electric service to rural communities which typically have lower population densities are more residential and less affluent than the industry average this means cooperatives are constantly asked to do more with less and they Del deliver electric co-ops are owners and operators of some of the nation's most critical infrastructure including providing power to more than 150 military facilities and installations in the United States we also
▶ 0:39:11serve as economic drivers and lifelines for critical Industries and services in our communities like hospitals schools Emergency Services energy and food and production protecting America's electric grid from cyber and physical threats is a top priority for our electric co-ops and the communities they serve accomplishing this important task as at Cost entities presents its own set of
▶ 0:39:42challenges the same circumstances that made it difficult to invest in electrifying Rural America nearly a hundred years ago including being isolated from larger customer bases and diverse Talent pools available in urban areas persist in some places today I address these issues in more detail in my written testimony but electric cooperatives struggle for cyber professionals against more competitive salaries
▶ 0:40:12and benefits offered by larger urban-based firms it is also often difficult to attract skilled talent to rural areas because of a perceived lack of professional development or career progression opportunities however electric co-ops are identifying innovative ways to overcome these obstacles through Partnerships and smart Investments I would be remiss if I did not take this opportunity to thank chairman green for his leadership with the Cyber pivot act
▶ 0:40:42to help tackle some of these issues electric cooperatives were pleased with the inclusion of language that would extend cyber security internship opportunities to critical infrastructure in rural communities creating a Talent pipeline that includes Pathways into rural areas will Foster a local skilled cyber security Workforce to safeguard critical infrastructure in these regions we have a saying that if you have met one Electric
▶ 0:41:13Co-op then you have met exactly one Electric Co-op we come in all different shapes and sizes but many of our challenges share similar themes MCE is fortunate to not have to wrestle with some of the more intense challenges of the royal cyber security Workforce issue however with my 26 years working for the Cooperative I have seen the links mte has had to go to to tackle those issues and can share many challenges that are impacting other co-ops
▶ 0:41:43across the broader Community thank you for this opportunity um and I hope to be helpful and I look forward to responding to any questions thank you Mr Jones for your testimony and Mr Stars is now recognized for his 5 minutes of opening statement thank you very much uh chairman green ranking member Thompson and all the members of the committee um especially for the extraordinary way that you have operated as a committee bipartisan focusing on this issue over the long term
▶ 0:42:13and being extraordinarily thoughtful uh it is unfortunately I think a little unusual and and deeply appreciated on such a fundamental issue um we know that it's important when we're thinking about cyber to be focused on the whole picture uh that includes obviously the private sector as well as the public sector my focus will be on the public sector think one important difference in today's world is that our government is no longer the market maker it's a market participant and so that relationship between the private sector and the public sector has changed and it's fundamental
▶ 0:42:44to think about what that inter relationship actually needs to be uh in the public sector we have made progress um but the truth of the matters the gaps remain um it's extraordinary that GAO in 1997 identif ified information security as an item on their high-risk list it's still there uh human capital issues since 2001 I think this committee should be asking the question we're making progress but what more do we really need to do to change the circumstances because the incremental change we're seeing so far frankly isn't
▶ 0:43:14good enough um I'm going to offer three categories of of of um opportunities for improvement uh beginning with um reforming the broader system and we often in the federal government op operate way too much in the vertical when you're thinking about something like cyber it should be a holistic approach we need to be looking at frankly um strategic human Capital Management across the board looking at as one government and integrating the effort so we have information from all agencies we know there's a 2,000
▶ 0:43:44person Gap in cyber Workforce at DHS but frankly we don't really know what the full picture is so understanding it from a comprehensive view is fundamental here uh secondly we need to focus on implementation of things you've already done in particular the bipartisan chance to compete act the notion that we should be focused on skills-based hiring is a fundamental one especially in the Cyber area getting that implemented effectively so it actually is making a real difference is going to take work oversight and continued followup from this committee and third um very important
▶ 0:44:14we need to look at the pay system it's nuts we have a pay system in the federal government that was designed 1949 and that's basically how we pay federal employees that is when the federal Workforce was almost exclusively clerical and now it's professional the world has changed our government has not kept up and frankly we need to change that and the pay system is a very very prominent place in which that needs to be done um secondly we need to go for big swings and uh partly I mentioned earlier about strategic human capital and doing that holistically we need to
▶ 0:44:44see cyber more broadly managed as a government-wide asset not agency by agency there's enormous uh efficiencies that can be generated by that we need to improve the entry pipeline um you know uh Mr chairman your your the pivot act I think is fundamental you forgot one thing when you mentioned the different agency or organizations that were endorsing your legislation please include the partnership for public service you know going forward we've been supporting this notion uh an essence of an RC like program for decades it is such smart things we shouldn't build
▶ 0:45:15separate institutions we should use the institutions that already exist um and third we need to look at development of midcareer and Senior Talent uh and on that front um one of the things we need to think about with a public sector Workforce is is more um exchanges between the public sector and the private sector uh they there's too much insulation between those and frankly it's not only the knowledge that needs to be shared but they need to understand how the different entities work and you do that by working in different entities so having more flow of talent I think is going to be fundamental the third
▶ 0:45:45piece that I'm going to flag here and this is the one that I think is going to be the most challenging and that is just bluntly we need to stop the harm that is taking place right now um and and you know they they're there is no truly real damage being done to the federal Workforce specifically the Cyber Workforce and it it's the list is long in terms of the hiring frees the you know push for people to resign the collection of information about probationary employees and the best way I can capture this is to read two paragraphs
▶ 0:46:16of an email that I received last night from a student in the Cyber core scholarship program she writes the Cyber core scholarship for service program provides Educational Funding for students at cyber security exchange for working in the Federal Government after graduation this scholarship has been vital to my career in academic Germany without the funding I would have been unable to attend graduate school and I was thrilled by the opportunity to work in public service upon graduation has been a goal of mine for some time to join the federal Workforce and this program seemed like the perfect opportunity in recent weeks I've had job offers
▶ 0:46:46rescinded and opportunities paused until the hiring freeze is over the Executive actions have led to significant uncertainties for me and my cybercore classmates students who face tremendous pressure to find a government job risk owing the government over $170,000 I urge you to speak with the panel about the importance of ensuring the hiring freeze National Security exemptions apply to all cyber security jobs in the US government getting this I felt an obligation to share it thank you so much and look forward to the conversation thank you Mr sty and uh members will be recognized
▶ 0:47:16by order of seniority for their five minutes of questioning I want to remind everyone to please keep their questioning to five minutes an additional round of questionings may be called after all members have been recognized I'll not I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of um first I want to thank the witnesses for their uh support of the pivot act I do think uh obviously it's a the right way to go about solving this issue and having
▶ 0:47:46served in the military and seen how the RC program not only benefits the military but then serves the nation as those individuals get a college degree and expertise and then they leave the force and go out and serve the country uh working for companies and government uh offices elsewhere um that it it really I think whoever created that it's the Legacy for the nation the GI bill is an excellent example men women came home from military service and uh left
▶ 0:48:16the military and had a degree paid for and then went on to serve the the country so um thank you for all of you for your kind words about that obviously this 500 ,000 and I've heard numbers ranging from 500,000 to 700,000 so the but it's a it's a really big number it's our greatest cyber security threat without a doubt when we look at the issues that create the risk this is our number one risk uh if we don't have the right people in the right
▶ 0:48:47place defending our networks we we're going to lose um let me ask really a question for all of the witnesses how has this cyber Workforce Gap affected your organizations and uh if we had a broader or more prepared Workforce how would that impact your ability to do your job so how's the deficit hit you and if we didn't have this deficit how would that hit impact you and we'll start with you Dr
▶ 0:49:17Rosman well thank you and um I wish our Chief Information officer were here to help uh answer your question but I do know that we have vulnerabilities within the University we have very sensitive data Student Records um what have you and so um yes we do have vulnerabilities many of those vulnerabilities are through quite frankly human behavior so the training aspect is uh critically important um a basic level of cyber uh security competency uh regardless of your position within an organization is
▶ 0:49:47is critically important a fundamental uh knowledge um cyber security for all if you will in terms of basic competencies would go a long way in mitigating a lot of the attacks we see today so certainly within the university environment um we're doing all we can I think universities uh by and large have fared uh fairly well compared to uh the private sector in many instances but there are significant gaps to be addressed and we would benefit directly from the Cyber pivot act
▶ 0:50:17let let me ask Mr Styer to kind of comment on that question and then I'm going to because I I only have a few minutes but if you could say where you know what is the impact to you know not not your organization but you know businesses from your perspective look I think the the impact is profound and we know that there are um breaches that are going on there National Security issues that are very hard to quantify in terms of the harm we're talking about because we have enemies abroad who are collecting information about our country um
▶ 0:50:47and it puts us at risk in the most fundamental way so you know look the reality obviously is that we've moved away from a world in which we do everything physically to a world in which we do almost everything digitally and we haven't kept up with that transformation of our of our world activity with the workforce uh that can manage that different threat I think the point that was just made earlier that it isn't just the Cyber Workforce it's the entire Workforce that needs to be sophisticated enough to be able to especially the leaders I mean this is
▶ 0:51:17one of the things that we see in government RIT large which is even if you have technical expertise if the leaders aren't sufficiently literate the reality is they don't even know what they should be asking for or how to deploy resources effectively so investing in leadership um literacy and cyber and other things especially now ai we think is fundamental let me ask the other two witnesses that are here when it comes to recruiting people to come do cyber training and be cyber um you know experts
▶ 0:51:48what is the biggest hurdle to recruitment of those students who would then come or or employees who would then come and be trained on on Cyber U Mr chairman I would say for the electric coops what we Face primarily is the is the workforce shortage and then um attracting with appropriate um salary of course we're talking about uh a 900 Cooperative Network a lot of rural areas that we serve so
▶ 0:52:19um we have some natural limitations there relative to someone wanting to come to certain places to work but certainly the talent pool itself is is the primary primary obstacle well clearly with a limited Supply the price is going to be high yes sir Mr Russia I I I think being a cyber security vendor we're in a a different situation the the large majority of of uh employees are cyber Security Professionals within our company so our our competitive nature is a little bit different what we do see though is a lot of our customers and
▶ 0:52:49partners are coming to us looking to us as a source for Recruitment and uh I think what they're St stting to see now is it's not just a recruitment issue but a retention issue so they're they're not able to retain that Talent through into their more senior roles so at the top leadership roles they're starting to become a significant Gap because of their attention again it all comes back to supply and demand doesn't it because that retention that movement about the industry is because there's all these openings out there and people are paying
▶ 0:53:19more so thank you for that uh I I yield to the uh ranking member for his five minutes of questioning thank you Mr chairman uh uh I thank our Witnesses for your your presentation uh clearly we accept the premise that uh we are short of uh people in this space uh the chairman talked about 500,000 uh that is probably
▶ 0:53:49a good number and the retention issue associated with it is a big challenge also but Mr St you you raised some question on the government side that I think we need to burrow down on uh we have for the last two weeks been under pressure uh as a government and our employees are being told that uh there's a hiring
▶ 0:54:19free you you got to go home and how does the the and I guess the uh the question would be how does it the impact uh on hiring freezers have on the ability of federal agencies to do their job I'll do that first and I'll go to the other part uh Congressman um I think that the the answer is very
▶ 0:54:49clear I read you the email from the student in the Cyber you know scholarship program cyber core scholarship program um the reality I mean we all have organizations that we're running our most important asset are our people um and creating environments that enable them to perform at their very best is essential to our jobs as leaders in our organizations and um when you create an atmosphere frankly of of fear um you're diminishing Your Capacity to perform so
▶ 0:55:20whatever else one might might say um it's not the way to run an organization uh when we're talking about cyber security which obviously has such a fundamental National Security and and and uh broad impact on our society it's dangerous uh and so whether it's the hiring freeze or some of the other actions that are taking place there's there's plenty of ways to improve our government we need to actually um engage in a in a massive reform of our government the things we're seeing right now are taking us the wrong way well
▶ 0:55:50and I appreciate your your comment so even a temporary pause can be disrupted uh can you talk about that that temporary pause uh And Delay as it relates to slowing the hiring process well let I look I think that the reality is many new administrations coming in actually engage in some kind of hiring free so um I think to me is the broader
▶ 0:56:21picture that we need to be looking at right now uh we already have a hiring system in the federal government that is not just ridiculously slow and that's a big problem but even more important is that it doesn't often identify the best talent or really um operate in a strategic fashion so you don't actually have subject matter experts um owning the hiring process it's often the HR professionals who don't really know what they should even be looking for so there is fundamental need to reform the hiring process when you do a hiring freeze you layer on
▶ 0:56:51top of what is already not working well and a whole another set of problems not not only with those people who are already in the pipeline but frankly in your ability to attract people from the outside who are looking at the hiring frees and saying how can I go there there's no opportunity for me there so it is enormously disruptive we do need to think about the brand of the federal government as a hiring uh uh employer um and it it it that needs a lot of work because right now is not presenting itself in a way that is
▶ 0:57:21most attractive to the talent that we need in our government to serve us better thanks right now there's one individual who's 19 years old uh working for Doge who has access to all our information employee information uh can you just uh tell us how do you put protect in your own company uh employees Social Security numbers and other information we'll
▶ 0:57:51start DR ramano sure what you described is you know one of the chief responsibilities of our Chief Information officer of course we have obligations around furpa and student student records so um I know that uh we do all we can to uh adopt the latest technology to ensure the uh Safety and Security of our Student Records moreover we do as a research R1 University we do a lot of research a lot of intellectual Capital uh intellectual property and
▶ 0:58:21what have you so once again um our Chief Information officer and our it organization I think they do a stellar job in terms of protecting our our assets given a really very lean uh organization so we have been very fortunate uh quite frankly um that we have had not had um significant issues with respect to breaches well my time is out but I think you made my point is just anybody doesn't have access to that kind of information you have a defined process uh that's
▶ 0:58:52closed and that's it that's how you protect and your employees as well as your organization thank you I Y back gentleman y i now recognize the uh chairman emeritus of the committee U my friend from Texas Mr McCall now thank thank you Mr chairman very important issue uh I think stem education I know this not in the jurisdiction of this committee is also very important um in 2014 the ranking member
▶ 0:59:22and I introduced a cyber core scholarship for service program um since that time we've had $600 million in funding uh 5,000 scholarships uh three to four year work requirements um first of all Dr risani mono I apologize and Mr Styer uh could you uh touch on the success of the program and what needs to be done to enhance
▶ 0:59:52it uh in addition how will the pivot Act uh complement those efforts well thank you uh Congressman McCall for that question as I said in my opening remarks I've um had the opportunity to be part of cyber core at two uh different universities and have seen the impact um both universities were Urban serving uh drawing uh you know student serving students from a variety of backgrounds um one of the real strengths of of cyber core
▶ 1:00:22is the uh the internship component the career for fairs the national career fairs in DC are a wonderful opportunity for students to network um to learn more about the various federal agencies where cyber security is of of course a very important aspect and so that as that that uh internship opportunity has really been important now in terms of improving that I think um more distribution of those types of Affairs Across the Nation
▶ 1:00:53would be critically important if you look at Urban serving universities many times students um may be reluctant to to leave their immediate geographic area there could be uh family dependencies and so on on that first generation student so I think having opportunities uh distributed throughout the nation um many of those jobs are concentrated in the DC area I believe that would be a great opportunity and maybe working additionally with the private sector with regard to incentives to provide further distribution and penetration across the us
▶ 1:01:23we heard about uh rural serving areas as well so I think that could be an opportunity to further penetrate the great benefits of cyber core across our nation and Mr Styer well first of all thank you for for creating the program it's done a lot of good and thank you for looking to how to make it better because we obviously got to do that um always my thought would be to really think about um career pathing um I think one of the real challenges is you may get entry talent coming in but how do you retain them can you create something that might be an add-on to the program
▶ 1:01:53that provides a private sector placement so that they're getting both the private sector and the public sector experience with the expectation that they'll take that private sector experience and return to the government as a way of again bringing best practice from the private sector into the government we need to see more of that flow back and forth as I mentioned earlier and I think if you think of this as a as a longer term pathway that will be very important and then the last thing I would say to your back point I think the pivot Act is an improvement we need to scale we're talking about such a huge problem if we don't scale you know it's a good thing but it's not meeting
▶ 1:02:23the need yeah I think uh mark up and passing the pivot act will help I think complement the success of the Cyber core program um the um the role of the Guard you know I I visit my Guardsman at uh camp mabery in Austin and you know they have tech jobs in the daytime and their Weekend Warriors in the Cyber command you know on the weekends I see that as a great uh enhancement to our both Federal Workforce but
▶ 1:02:53also with the the state uh as as well my Governor just created a um Texas cyber command in San Antonio where the Air Force has its cyber command U and I see that federal state partnership uh really enhancing that I think is very helpful when the states get engaged in this and not just relying on the federal government do you have any thoughts on that well I would say once again uh cyber core and the and the pivot act with that service component is a great model
▶ 1:03:24the question is how do other entities adopt that model and certainly I think there's ample opportunity at the state and local levels to um look at how the Cyber core project has been successful and in turn then adopt those best practices in their local areas as well as the private sector I think Mr rossot you you mentioned uh the role of veterans too I mean they have a skill set that they may not be aware the private sector or
▶ 1:03:54state or federal service could um you know enhance their careers Beyond uh the military and uh I think that's an area we need to enhance and look at as well and then finally on on the the exemption issue I just want to close by saying that it's my understanding that sisa and the dod are Exempted from the executive order so for your uh student who may be worried about this uh that's good for them to know uh also the National Security
▶ 1:04:24and Public Safety the exemption to the executive order uh as well and with that I yield back the gentleman Ys I now recognize Mr CA Mr his five minutes questioning good to see thank you very much may I respectfully have 10 minutes well you know how I do this so ask your questions seven minutes you got a deal thank you Mr chairman want to thank our Witnesses for being here today this most important issue that we've dealt with in homeland security
▶ 1:04:54for a number of years now now we all read about those big hacking situations Colonial pipeline what we don't read about are those victims big and small that actually pay the ransom and continue to remain quiet you also don't read about folks back home on Main Street my Main Street small businesses getting hacked losing information
▶ 1:05:25not paying the ransom and getting hit hard number one by those people that hacked them and then number two with a lawsuit the loss an economic value is high gentlemen all of you had some great information here today and my question would be as follows we're losing
▶ 1:05:56Personnel it's hard to recruit individuals to go into the sector not only because it's stem but because of the pay the private sector will always pay more than the public sector yet I look at government the FBI the CIA other government agencies that are active in this area in critical ways how do they compete with the private sector how do they re recruit
▶ 1:06:27to get people to go into those jobs and I think we've had this discussion here in this committee as well I think at the end of the day these young men and women that join the ranks of the public sector are really Patriots they want to do it because they love this country they want to do it because they want to do the right thing and right now we pick up the newspapers we have an FBI hiring freeze we have a hunt for FBI agents that were involved
▶ 1:06:57in the January 6th investigation these men were following orders these individuals men and women were doing what they thought was right for this country so I'm looking at somebody in college who's maybe looking at going into the FBI for a career what do they say what's the motivation here just as I was walking over here picked up a report it says
▶ 1:07:27CIA offers buyouts to Workforce similar to those proposed through other government agencies except for those that are in sensitive areas well the rookies coming into the CIA like FBI got to learn the business and cyber is one of those that you don't walk in and say aha I got it I got a four-year degree or 2-year technical degree you have to be there for a number of years so I'm going to
▶ 1:07:57ask each one of you very quickly how does this hurt our country's recruitment when you have across the board federal agencies asking their workers to actually resign or take early buy at offers Mr asmano I only have a minute and a half so if you could be brief thank you Congressman Korea um I would say you know our Focus really is on providing opportunities for students
▶ 1:08:27and you know um respect okay got you Mr Jones how you m Congressman I would say that um when I think about electric co-ops and the the opportunities we provide I would say that um there's virtue in service and that is an attractor that we have and if and when we have people that come to work for us maybe they're not making the most money but the vir you have a steady job you know what you're doing for the public for the community and that's what it's about so if you get a buyout offer saying
▶ 1:08:57you got to leave how does that affect your recruiting well certainly would it would impact you sir but as far as the all the particulars and Mr rot I I think you're right in that the majority of people that are in cyber security roles are doing it because they love it and creating an environment for those people to thrive and providing them as much education as we can through free education and uncertainty causes what Mr Styer of course
▶ 1:09:27it hurts there that's an obvious proposition I think that important to focus on that this is a purpose-driven Workforce it is what enables you to recruit people even if you're not going to make as much money we do need to change the pay scale it's worth noting as well that a third of federal employees are veterans and it's because they care they they serve the country and they're uniform and they want to serve their country as civil servants thank you Mr chairman I'm out of Time gentleman yields I now recognize uh the former chairman the Border subcommittee uh the gentleman from
▶ 1:09:57Louisiana Mr Higgins for five minutes questions thank you Mr Question Mr chairman in the last uh in the last Congress I posed a question to this committee and we discussed the the nature of the workforce is what we're here to talk about today and the historical comparisons of Workforce as a a
▶ 1:10:27concerning Trend but perhaps offers us an opportunity as it relates to the the Cyber realm and and the and our Workforce requirements uh to to address emerging threats to our country and how can we draw upon the available Workforce um we discussed how to prepare and recruit Americas cyber Workforce and I
▶ 1:10:58remarked Upon A documented phenomena of America's so-called disconnected generation that just a few stats the current labor force participation rate among gen Z ages 20 to 24 71% that's roughly 4% lower than the millennial generation and 6 percentage points lower than the preceding generation when they were in the same age range and this is to me my perspective is this is a sweet spot
▶ 1:11:28that perhaps in our Workforce we should focus on and specifically according to a recent study among gen z a staggering 73% of those Young Americans report feeling constantly alone and as it relates to to to the disconnect from the labor force perhaps there's several factors that contribute to that but let's talk about
▶ 1:11:58the conceptual nature of this field the Cyber field cyber Battlefield is vast unseen um and the the call to to man our cyber defenses while critical it it it differently than say a call to serve in uniform or on the front lines in the in the traditional historical perspective like public or military service so how do we bridge this Gap and how
▶ 1:12:28do we access this this this vast Workforce that is available of Young Americans that are not engaged and i' i' I'd like to submit for the record Mr chairman a Rand Corporation report entitled how to analyze the Cyber threat from drones I seek unanimous consent to offer Mr chairman without objection thank you this this report touches on the things we're discussing
▶ 1:12:58and how we can connect our the our relevant Fields gentlemen to this Workforce and and I ask you Mr ramano and Mr rot how are you adjusting your particular intersections with the realm to to make cyber security attractive to this generation that's available Mr Rosano
▶ 1:13:29thank you Congressman Higgins for that question um with respect to gen Z I think it's very important to message early on and glad to hear about these early K through2 uh initiatives is how vast the the cyber security field is many times folks think about computer science engineering these disciplines that have a tremendous prerequisite chains uh mathematical Foundation basic Science Foundation those are wonderful programs our nation needs those programs to advance the state-of-the-art
▶ 1:14:00but there's ample opportunities to apply the state-ofthe-art and I don't believe we're articulating those opportunities broadly enough to gen Z so at the University of Memphis for example we have the Polytechnic initiative that's really looking at expanding our cyber security degree portfolio to better align with Community College and other training programs are you seeing an engagement from your from these Young Americans where they where they appear there's some heightened awareness of the cyber security field and
▶ 1:14:30they're attracted to that are we are we recruiting these Young Americans through that program I believe so the the real challenge is for these students to see themselves in these careers because often times they may think of the barrier in terms of the mathematical preparation basic Sciences preparation so really that focus on that applied practice which I think the pivot bill in particular is addressing to to expand the workforce to Community College and Technical School opportunities
▶ 1:15:00and my time has expired but Mr chairman could Mr rot briefly respond to the same question how is he absolutely how is he helping the workforce see their way into the cyber security realm yeah I think the public private Partnerships are critical and from a RS perspective I think cyber security roles can sometimes be quite nebulous so someone going into education to become in a cyber security career what does that career look like what is the actual role so we're taking
▶ 1:15:30an uh a lot of emphasis around working with organizations to try to define those roles what is a SE Ops analyst for example working with organizations like like nist with the nice uh career paths and trying to map we've actually mapped our entire catalog of cyber security training courses to the to the nice Pathways to try to make that more well defined we're also working with hundreds of of academic institutions to integrate our our uh Enterprise certifications
▶ 1:16:00into academic programs to make it more relevant more handson thank you sir thank you Mr chairman for the Indulgence I yield absolutely gentleman Y and I uh now recognize the doctor uh congressman thodar from Michigan for his uh five minutes questioning thank you chairman Dr Green and ranking member Thomson thank you for having this uh hearing and I thank the witnesses to be here uh and appreciate their expertise and
▶ 1:16:30comments look in the first week in office uh president Trump illegally fired 17 inspectors General the independent Watchdogs responsible for providing critical oversight critical oversight of federal agencies we know that the administration is scared of anyone tracking what they are doing and this effort
▶ 1:17:00is just one part of their effort to avoid any accountability ig's play a critical role in routing out west Fraud and Abuse and help protect employee whistleblowers and purging them reflects a hope in the Trump that nobody will check their abuse of power Mr
▶ 1:17:31steer why are independent Inspector General so important and what will be the impact of this most recent Purge so um the inspector generals are uh I think a um innovation in our governance in our um system that came out in 1978 with the uh response to some of the um choices that were made by President Nixon that look to exceed his presidential
▶ 1:18:01Authority Congress acted to create the IGS as a way of making sure that there was eyes and ears inside agencies to address waste Fraud and Abuse issues as you've described I'm going to try to bring this back to the Cyber issue if you don't mind uh and uh I would just say that um you know one of the issues that they have focused on has been this question of cyber security and agencies I think it's important in terms of the system that we're talking about here that IGS while they are political appointees they're nonpartisan political appointees
▶ 1:18:31um they're intended to extend beyond a single uh term or or Administration um because the intent is to make sure that you have somebody who has the expertise and you know frankly the independence to ensure that you all in Congress are getting the information that you need to be able to do the oversight um that is required as well as the agency leadership as well so it is disturbing to see um wholesale firings of IGS it's actually something that I think will diminish the capacity of our government to perform well and for you
▶ 1:19:01to do your jobs well thank you so much um I want to change the focus a little bit I want to look at this uh shortage of uh technology people uh I mean we currently are under threat for cyber attacks many of our agencies many of our uh organizations are under attack while we talking about long range plans in terms of uh academic uh training
▶ 1:19:32and forar College Programs weekend programs but there is this needs to be a true prong approach what are we going to do today now uh to protect um our institutions and then what are we going to do in the future to be able to recruit the people that we need now I ran small uh technology businesses hiring technical skilled people is always a challenge
▶ 1:20:02and we are always competing uh internally not only in the private sector so we need to be what kind of a employer federal government is and what recent changes that have been done in terms of uh the cuts what is that do do to the morale of uh existing employees federal employees and those who want to be uh into the federal government to because of patriotic reasons because of
▶ 1:20:32uh their love for this country what have we doing to attract uh people uh and are we a good employer uh and are we also looking at the anti-immigrant B uh bias current with the current Administration there's a lot of uh cyber security Personnel trained outside of United States and what are we doing to make sure that we're able to hire them and attract them and compete uh
▶ 1:21:02while Canada and Australia and others are also competing for the same Talent any thoughts maybe uh Dr russano if you can comment on that sure no your Point's well taken in terms of the here and now and um you know some of the things that we're really focusing on is uh reaching down to the high schools you know creating dual enrollment curricula to provide not only the competencies around cyber security
▶ 1:21:33but exposure to the career to get excitement right to help build that pipeline in the high schools and and developing that talent that can then hopefully matriculate to the academic programs whether a community college technical school or a four-year institution so really developing that that comprehensive pipeline that's not a bumpy road but a smooth road with roadside assistance that that's what we're focused on thank you so much and thank you chairman for this extra 38 seconds the uh gentleman Ys I now recognize the gentleman from Texas
▶ 1:22:03uh Mr Latrell for his thank Mr chairman Mr Rashad does your program you said that you're across the continent of United States so I come from a very district and they're very there there's an appetite and they're very hungry for everything if you will can you come out and give an educational course in my K through 12 schools and K through 12 is in one building is that something do I reach out to your organization
▶ 1:22:33how does that work uh yeah thanks for the question uh we AB absolutely we' we've made uh our entire curriculum our entire catalog of cybercity training available in a multiple multiple mode so that we can address these types of challenges we've actually hired a team of K to2 Educators Within foret to develop K to2 education for teachers and we just unload the software and absolutely okay that's that's that's beautiful the bad part about it is I've been up here for two years and some change and I didn't even
▶ 1:23:03know you guys existed there in lies the problem um because we've chatted about we want to recruit out of the military which I think is a fabulous idea uh Mr Jones you're out in the rural areas a lot of folks don't want to live out in the country like we do and if we offer these these these these job opportunities and we talk about pay and when we which which is a challenge it always is but the hard part about bringing experienced expertise into the military the private sector going to come in and snatch them
▶ 1:23:33and pay them three times as much as we can federally and so there's the problems one of the very many problem sets if you will Mr sty you you laid out very job well done I love the way you laid everything out because we need to hear that here you all are the subject matter experts my my first question is there's no portal there's no Enclave of information where the mass either whether it's in the universities Mr Rosano you and I spoke about that I have I have a young I have a university in my district
▶ 1:24:04that is eagerly trying to put together an academic profile or degree plan for cyber security so those those folks Downstream whether it's at the federal or private have or can communicate with the university like hey here's where we are in 2025 this is the expectation that we have and this is where we need are men and women to be once they graduate and then we'll take it from there that's where I'm I'm I need traction I need you all or
▶ 1:24:34however this is going to work so okay so my is is there an existing department whether or not it's sisa or federal and if it's DOD and sisa together where can something live that universities private sector can go as well as lower academics can go and and converge these two problems Mr Rosman you got some form sir yes I mean I I would you know a lot of our experience is working with the National Science Foundation that makes a for me it's
▶ 1:25:04it's comes to mind as a facilitator to bring together institutions toward shared goals for example we'd love to to partner and work with you know universities in your District we're working on a national model we welcome um other partner institutions is it is it actually that easy for me to tell Willis High School to reach out to the National Science cies and say hey look there you go well I think it starts with Partnerships among like-minded uh institutions I mean working together and then influencing potential calls for
▶ 1:25:34proposals um from the National Science Foundation to address shed goals as one approach is okay you know I hate to Hate to sometimes doing a lot of work is something a lot of people don't want to do I'm trying to ease ease ease the movement if you will U Mr Rashad you got you got anything on that for for me like where can where what specifically in your opinion can like if I if when we have sis in here I was like all right hey here is your rule and responsibility you're to reach out to
▶ 1:26:05single K through2 School in the Contin United States and see where they are in the cyers space or whomever uh I it's something that we've done a lot of work with at the state level with with different uh we we have our K to2 program operating in in 40 three different states now and that has primarily been an effort through uh state and local government um but uh it has been quite successful and I think we can continue uh pushing pushing that
▶ 1:26:36okay um I I'll ask this because I'm going to reach out to every single one of you just if you will I don't care if you throw it at the wall or put it on a whiteboard in the military we have Mission success and we work our way back to the starting line and how do we get there what's the most streamlined process who we taking and where are where our contingency plans at um that's something that we thrive on in here because inevitably it's going to come up to either legislation or dollar bills and again you guys are the subject matter experts so I'd appre I appreciate
▶ 1:27:07that communication yes sir Mr Jones Congress I'd say reach out to your local electric cooperatives and let us be a facilitator and part of that process mean we want to be drivers with that regard we have a National Association that can help be a facilitator so and I'm happy to be a a bridge to you as well so feel free to reach out to me thank you Mr chairman y back sir thank you the gentleman yields I now recognize the ranking member on the Cyber subcommittee uh you're still in that role right yes okay excellent glad to see you stay in there we're going to come to your community
▶ 1:27:38I think we're going to do a field hearing that' be great yeah in poto area for on Cyber yeah so um I recognize um the gentleman from California for his five minutes of questioning great thank you chairman this committee was stood up to address threats to the Homeland after September 11th something my colleague to the right knows a lot about being here since its Inception and today I I just want to
▶ 1:28:09address the question as to whether we are safe today as a country because what I'm seeing from this Administration is that we are taking our Eye Off the Ball we had a terrorist attack in New Orleans to to start the year Isis Al-Qaeda other terrorist organizations want to hit us and hit us hard we've got the Super Bowl this weekend back in New Orleans we have the World Cup in 2026
▶ 1:28:40and we have the Olympics in 2028 in the United States there are a lot of prime National Security targets however what we are seeing are actions from this Administration that do not make us safe the most basic job of government is for people to feel safe so when President Trump releases 1,600 violent criminals into our communities people who brutally attack
▶ 1:29:11officers we should not be surprised that they're already committing crimes one of them just last week in Indiana was pulled over by a police officer and shocking didn't want to obey that officer's orders fought the cop tried to use his own gun on the cop and thankfully the cop shot and took that down others are committing acts of child pornography who have already been released so are we safe when 1600 violent individuals are released into the community no
▶ 1:29:41we are not safe president Trump is seeking to fire thousands of FBI agents and has already fired many senior officials why because these individuals happened to work on cases that he was involved with where he was accused of stealing National Security secrets and leading a coup against his own government these federal agents keep their head down and they go where they're assigned it's not a fantasy football draft they don't get to pick the cases that
▶ 1:30:11they work on they just do their job and they follow the evidence but what happens when you take thousands of FBI agents out of the Hoover building they don't work on terrorism they don't work on child trafficking they don't work on public corruption they don't work on violent crime so are we safe when we take thousands of cops off the beat to protect us from terrorism no we are not safe the president is seeking to force resignations at the Central Intelligence Agency these
▶ 1:30:41are the best spies in the world who have spent years developing foreign languages are assigned all over the world have taken years to train to get necessary experience and they'll be taken off the meat to find the threats that face us as a country are we safe when they are not on their watch no we are not safe and as we speak Elon Musk who no one elected no one asked for is that the Department of Treasury
▶ 1:31:12with a cyber gang with access to every American's tax returns and personal identifying information so speaking of cyber vulnerabilities are are we safe when unvetted individuals have access to your most precious data information about your employer your health care your social security number no we are not safe our job is to make the American people safer
▶ 1:31:42and Mr Styer if we gut and take off the beat the individuals who are supposed to work at sisa and monitor International cyber attacks against our local businesses does that make us more able to respond to a Cyber attack and protect Americans data or less able Congressman as we we've covered already um workforces are not improved in terms of their capacity to do their job if
▶ 1:32:12uh they are um in crisis and we have a federal Workforce that is in crisis right now uh on the issue of of cyber issues it puts us certainly at greater risk both with back to the specific cyber talent and more generally the the workforce at large so um easy answer is this is um not enabling our government to do its job in the way that the civil servants who are there would like to do it great and I'm all for getting R of waste Fraud and Abuse I support any efforts
▶ 1:32:42to do that but when it comes to National Security you better be pretty damn careful about where we make Cuts because my promise to you is we will be hit if we take our eye off the ball and yield back uh the gentleman yields I now recognize the uh chairman of our terrorism counterterrorism task for subcommittee uh the gentleman from Texas Mr fluger thank you Mr chairman and thank you for uh having this hearing and I think that's a great point we we have been
▶ 1:33:12hit over the last four years we we we have seen gaps in our security we have been vulnerable so uh and I think you holding this hearing today is an acknowledgement uh of a new direction that we are going and we're going to make sure damnn sure uh that we're protected so I think our our Witnesses and our panelists um and want to start by saying I represent Angela State University I've mentioned this in this hearing room many times um and Dr Rano I'll start with you what
▶ 1:33:42lessons and Angela state is a center of academic e excellence in cyber defense um what lessons should Angelo State be learning and what programs should they be um trying to seek uh to help with the shortage of cyber professionals that we have especially those that come from places like rural Texas uh that want to be a part of our security and defense and and give us some of the the lessons you've learned and those that I can share with an institution like that you know I think the key
▶ 1:34:12is expanding the portfolio of training with respect to cyber security Readiness once again many folks think of just computer science engineering as those Pathways but there's others and with respect to the National Security threats that have been voiced um I know with Jin Z students they want to make a difference right they are looking for Meaningful work it's uncom that wasn't necessarily the motivation of an 18-year-old in my generation but gen Z wants to make a difference so
▶ 1:34:43a call to this national security threat is uh something that gen Z could rise to and I will point out the isc2 study from last year pointed out that our cyber security growth is flat year-over-year last year so as the threat is increasing our Workforce growth is flat we have to broaden the academic programs the training programs available to our students and articulate the urgency and the opportunity for Jin Z to make it a difference in this
▶ 1:35:13challenge our nation faces are those training programs adequately suited to to address the threat to meet the threat or is it volt typhoon and some of these things that we've seen recently I mean are they are they outpacing what we're learning or or is it adequate right now we need more investment in applying the state of the art to our cyber security threats and I think the Cyber pivot Act is addressing broadening that Workforce focused on applying the state-of-the-art thank you
▶ 1:35:43Mr Jones I'll go to you and and uh have two questions for you um number one talk about internships and kind of pick up where Dr russano left off um what are those internships look like what's most beneficial how do we take uh a center Center of Excellence a student that comes from rural West Texas and put that individual into a proper internship yeah Congressman thank you um so umot opportunity obviously for someone to come in and learn uh about cyber security about the techniques that we have in place but
▶ 1:36:13also to learn about an Electric Co-op you know that we're you know for a place like you're describing a good place to work with a virtuous Mission so um there's a good change there and we hope to raise the profile of what electric co-ops do in internships Pro internship programs like that well that's where I was going with the second part of the question is how um how worried are our cooperatives which service communities like mine in many many cases how worried are we that that piece of critical infrastructure is vulnerable to an attack
▶ 1:36:43that would shut down the the lights well a congressman I would relate it this way if I may so um Co Electric Co-op managers we have a universal always have had a universal item that keeps us up and ey that's the safety of our team members and we we have a dangerous profession we have an accompanying worry that keeps us up at night now and it's certainly cyber security so this weighs heavy I can assure you on every electric coal manager across this country so we're taking it seriously we're working together we're collaborating
▶ 1:37:14we appreciate this opportunity to collaborate with the federal government we want to be the best partner we can be but uh yes it is top of mind for all of us um thank you we've got uh 45 seconds left I'll leave the time to the additional or the other two witnesses what keeps you up at night how will the pivot Act help um with with those threats you've got about 20 seconds each yeah I think I'd right like to emphasize again the this idea of broadening our scope of cyber security training and the roles and so on where today I think we typically focus on training
▶ 1:37:45people that just have cyber security in their job role and their a job title where I think it's a broader Focus than that we need to make sure that people coming out of business school schools understand cyber threats we need to understand that people coming out of law school understand uh risk mitigation and so on from a physical cyber security perspective we don't just train people that have Security in their job title and I think we need to take the same approach here and really broaden our viiew of who needs that cyber security knowledge my time uh is expired I'm sorry
▶ 1:38:15if you'd like to enter something for the record please do so y back gentlemen Ys I now recognize a gentle lady from Illinois Miss Ramirez for her uh five minutes questioning thank you chairman well let's be serious we're here talking about preparing the pipeline the title of this hearing is laughable how do we prepare the pipeline the pipeline or examine the state of America's cyber Workforce
▶ 1:38:45when unelected unacc accountable president musk and Trump are asking over half of the federal Workforce to resign and issuing executive orders freezing hiring and funding for federal agencies how do you prepare the pipeline under a musque and Trump presidency it is clear that the security of Americans information is not a priority I mean let's think about this a private civilian with no security clearance
▶ 1:39:16bullied his way into the treasury he set up private servers and stole Sunset of information from agency let me repeat that because I think some of my colleagues on the other side need to hear it again a private civilian with no security clearance bullied his way into treasury set up private servers and stole sensitive information from the agency folks if that isn't a national security crisis a cyber security crisis
▶ 1:39:46I don't know what is the true threat to our homeland security is felon Musk Trump and their blatant misuse of power to steal information and coer employees to leave agencies the billionaire boss and his puppet I'm going to let you all decide which is which are on a mission of privatization for their own profit well my mission I think uh the mission of a number of of members here is to protect the people and with that I want to really turn on
▶ 1:40:16um to questions and look one challenge the federal government has when it comes to cyber Workforce for Recruitment and Retention is competing with the private sector we know the government is not going to be able to pay as much as tech companies like Google or crowd strike pay but the federal government has relied on a offering a strong benefit package that also includes retirement benefits that's how you recruit and it helps recruit and retain workers now
▶ 1:40:46Republicans are proposing to cut federal employee benefits to pay for tax cuts for the richest man in the world and Trump's other billionaire bosses I worry this will make it even harder for us to recruit and prepare a pipeline and keep cyber security professionals so Mr sier how have federal employee benefits played an important part in recruiting and retaining employees let me give you the second part of that question how could cuts to retirement benefits
▶ 1:41:17harm efforts to attract new cyber security workers and keep the Cyber Defenders we currently have Mr Styer sure um so I think uh returning to why is it that uh people come into government more broadly it's because of mission more than anything else but Mission alone people don't work only for Mission alone so compensation is clearly quite important I noted earlier that the pay system we have today across the government is based on a 1949 law it was based on this notion of everyone
▶ 1:41:47could be paid the same at a at at a similar level of work in a world in which you have different occupations like cyber that's foolishness so you know the answer number one is what should be done is modernize the federal pay system so that you actually have some Market sensitivity by occupation which is something we largely don't have with the Cyber Workforce we have different systems at DOD DHS but there's been no analysis about what is the right system and why should that system be applied to a single agency rather against the entire cyber Workforce
▶ 1:42:17so if you want to address how you recruit and retain on the compensation side a better cyber Workforce modernize the pay system treat it as a unified Workforce across the entire government so you don't have agencies competing against each other and you will create better return for the American taxpayer and a safer country thank you Mr sier so let me follow up on that upon taking office Trump resurrected schedule F his attempt to bring back the Gilded Age spoil system and higher federal workers based
▶ 1:42:47on partisan loyalties rather than qualifications and merits this policy could lead to mass firings of qualified cyber security policy experts across the federal government and would dangerously politicize civil service so Mr Seer the last question I have here in 20 seconds why is a nonpartisan civil service so important and how does politicizing the federal Workforce under my National Security we have a history in our country where we had this spil system before in the
▶ 1:43:1819th century you wound up with corruption incompetence you see that globally whenever you have a system move away from merit with respect to the Civil Service you see poor performance in the government and you see corruption so it is not the right way to move we do need to reform our government that's not the reform we need and I just a point of order and I normally don't do this it's sty just to let everybody know so we can maybe going forward thank you Mr Ty I take that very personal the chairman so I apologize for that no problem not at all thank you with
▶ 1:43:48that I yield back gentle lady yields uh I now recognize the gentleman from Arizona uh one of our border states uh Mr Eli crane for his five minutes questioning thank you Mr chairman uh I appreciate the opportunity to be here today and talk with uh some subject matter experts about the pipeline of our cyber force and how we're going to compete with some of the threats as we see some of our adversaries increasing cyber attacks on country
▶ 1:44:18um I want to take I just came from an oversight committee and now I'm back here and it's really the it's really the same nonsense going on in there uh just want to say to Elon Musk wow man you are really effective because these guys are completely melting down you must be doing something right I think uh you we might need to request um some of your some of your funds to uh get these guys maybe some pallets of tissues a
▶ 1:44:48some safe spaces maybe a couple therapy dogs because they are absolutely melting down so good job Elon um now I want to cover something that Mr swell said a couple seconds ago Mr swell talks about he talked about the responsibilities to protect the American people because he this president pardoned the j6 prisoners many who had been in prison for several years it's just funny because I didn't hear that same concern from Mr schwell or many of the Democrats
▶ 1:45:18on this committee when then President Biden was allowing hundreds of thousands of be illegal aliens many of whom were criminals rapists and murderers and terrorists coming into this country on a monthly basis so my point being is if you if you want to protect Americans you can't just do it when it's politically advantageous I want to start with you Dr uh russamano as the Executive Vice President of academic Affairs at Memphis and the former dean of engineering
▶ 1:45:49at Purdue University I'm sure you were well versed on developing the cyber Workforce my question is how is the University of Memphis utilizing programs like cyber Corp scholarship for service programs to build out the pipeline of the federal cyber Warriors thank you Congressman crane for your for your question um I think it's important to remind um everyone what cyber core is all about and how it impacts students one is covering
▶ 1:46:19tuition another is providing a stip in that enables students not to have to work while they're pursuing their degree another is an opportunity to build social capital through networking through internship fairs and other opport opportunities to learn more about the federal government and way they can make an impact through cyber security this is a tremendous um enabler if you will we've talked about how do we get more of our youth involved in cyber security certainly helping them through their daily
▶ 1:46:49living is a a fundamental way so can focus on their studies to help our nation thank you next question for Mr rot according to the US China economic and Security review commission the cyber security school at the Wuhan base National cyber security Center planned to build four to six cyber security schools by 2027 the CCP has devoted significant resources to building their cyber force and while the exact number of cyber Warriors isn't available it's safe to estimate that
▶ 1:47:19if the CCP issued a directive it could bring a significant cyber force to Bear against the US especially given that according to the U to us cyber command there are only 6,200 Personnel across 133 teams working on Cyber threats and cisa at DHS has roughly 3,100 employees my question is how can academic Academia Private Industry and the federal government partner together to ensure our cyber Workforce pipeline is able to keep Pace with the number of
▶ 1:47:49cyber Warriors our adversaries can turn out uh thank you for the question I I think that the the Partnerships between industry and Academia are critical and uh our approach has been to break down every barrier we can in terms of access to training and education we've done that at foret by making our entire catalog of training available free to anyone who needs that training and we've uh We've we've challenged others uh to do the same thank you my next question
▶ 1:48:19is for you Mr Jones how important is it to utilize American resources within our power grid so that our adversaries aren't getting a foothold in our critical infrastructure similar to volt typhoon hack I was recently watching the Shawn Ryan Show the topic was we're in in an invisible war with Eric bethl my question is and I'm paraphrasing from the show how can companies who have a fiduciary responsibility to their investors to gain and seek profit balance that financial responsibility
▶ 1:48:50with other factors like patriotism well I I think that the electric cooperatives uh in our country have a uh Rich history of patriotism uh a congressman so I think we we do take that uh seriously and um you know the virtues of our mission uh service um um making sure that we are doing our part to provide reliable power for now almost 50 million Americans and that's always top of mind for us thank you Mr chairman can I enter this into the record
▶ 1:49:20I know there's been some discussion here about layoffs and uh buyouts this is an article sisa among DHS offices Exempted from taking opm's deferred buyout offer with without objection so ordered thank you I yield back gentleman yields I now recognize the gentle lady from New Jersey Miss mver for her oh wait are you I didn't see this I didn't see Mr magaziner snuck in on me so uh if we'll defer is
▶ 1:49:50it okay I'll recognize Mr magaz ER for his 5 minutes of questioning and my apologies thank you chairman we're here today because we all care about cyber security or at least I thought we all did last week Donald Trump's Office of Management and budget illegally cut off funding for Grants across the federal government including grants for cyber security this is a memo that was sent from the Department of Homeland Security to states
▶ 1:50:20that outlined DHS Grant that were being cut off for review including but not limited to the cyber security Education and Training Grant cut off the sisa cyber security awareness Grant cut off the Cyber tip line cut off state and local cyber security Grant cut off pending review per om instructions review for what is cyber security to woke to green and it was only after an enormous public
▶ 1:50:51outrage and a federal court order that the Trump Administration pulled back that om memo and during those days when this funding was frozen China was continuing to put thousands of people a day in cyber warfare against the United States to say nothing of Russia and Iran and criminal gangs but that's not all the federal funding hiring frees is impacting cyber security jobs all
▶ 1:51:21across the federal government government and I want people to hear this there are federal cyber security jobs not just at sisa or DOD but in every agency and so cyber security jobs at the US Treasury hiring frees cyber security jobs at HHS which manages Medicare Social Security CMS cut off critical agencies are impacted by this hiring freeze we heard a letter earlier
▶ 1:51:51from Mr sty from a cyber Corps participant whose job in the federal government his cyber security job was rescinded due to Trump's hiring freeze which is still ongoing agencies all across the federal government are not able to make these crucial cyber security hires across the board almost and so to my Republican colleagues if you care about cyber security and I'm serious about this call the White House call the White
▶ 1:52:21House right now and tell them to lift the hiring freeze of cyber security roles across the federal government not just at sisa not just at DOD but at agency and let's address the Elephant at the room this weekend Elon Musk sent a group of unvetted 20-year-olds to take over the US treasury's payment system responsible for tax refunds Social Security checks Medicare benefit payments and more the treasury's
▶ 1:52:52payment system has the names Social Security numbers bank routing numbers and tax information of every American Medical information of millions of Medicare recipients we have no idea who these children are that Elon Musk has working for him who now have access to the private personal data of every American we don't know what permissions they have can they just read the data can they edit it can they initiate payments
▶ 1:53:22can they cut off payments at will can they share your personal data with people outside the federal government the one thing we know about these this Army of children that Elon Musk has pouring through your data is that not one of them has been through a federal FBI background check other than that we don't know very much and oh by the way we just learned through public reporting that Elon Musk has put a private server in his office
▶ 1:53:52off and has downloaded every American's personal data into that private server so I invite any of our panelists any of the four of you to defend this are any of you comfortable with Elon Musk and this staff of untrained unvetted unelected teenagers having access to every American's personal data with no transparency or over it does
▶ 1:54:23anyone want to take a stab at defending that well that silence I think gives us answer that I was expecting at least uh does any of our panelists think that the Trump Administration freezing hiring of cyber security roles in agencies across the federal government help our national security of course not so listen if we're going to have conversations about cyber security I welcome it but it needs to start
▶ 1:54:53with administration taking steps to protect the private data of Americans to lift the hiring frees of cyber Security Professionals and to stop giving our adversaries win after win after win in the Cyber domain as they have been over the last two weeks and I'll yield back the gentleman yields and I'd like to I don't normally do this say my comments on this one till the end but 19y olds aren't children we have Medal of Honor winners who fought fought and died for this bleeping
▶ 1:55:23country who are 19y olds so if you're 19 years old out there I don't consider you a child I now recognize Miss Green from Georgia for five minutes questioning thank you Mr chairman thank you for clearing that up there 19-year-olds that are serving our country and defending our nation um we believe in in Merit we believe in people that can do the job that's why America elected Donald Trump uh this past election and part of his campaign
▶ 1:55:54was Doge and Elon Musk they were on the campaign Trail together as a matter of fact the last two months of the campaign and America overwhelmingly voted for this effort um I'm so happy that we're talking about cyber security uh cyber professionals uh today Mr Styer in your testimony you talk about maintaining nonpartisanship as a Bedrock principal of civil service you want to talk about nonpartisanship Meanwhile
▶ 1:56:24your $24 million nonprofit dedicated to attracting talent for the federal Workforce and making the government more affected is funded by some of the most Progressive benefactors this includes the Gates Foundation the Democracy fund and the Ford Foundation it also hosts Gallas to honor people like Lisa Monaco and other Biden officials a goal of your entire organization is essentially def facto job placement to entrench more Dei
▶ 1:56:55hires into the federal Workforce the opposite of nonpartisan apolitical merit-based Civil Service diversity Equity inclusion is a huge priority uh for the partnership as as listed on your website listed on the website is a framework to integrate the principles of diversity equity and inclus inclusion into the partnership's programs initiatives
▶ 1:57:25and strategies since the nonprofit's main initiatives are helping people apply for federal roles and advancing career development in the federal Workforce your nonprofit is aimed at infusing Dei and inherently partisan practice into the federal Workforce I worry about this especially with regards to cyber security Workforce who needs high quality skill-based positions such as those serving on Doge cyber security is extremely
▶ 1:57:55important it shouldn't be about race it shouldn't be about sexuality it shouldn't be about identity in your testimony you also Express concerns that President Trump's administration's recent actions and that they will counter Democratic principles yet your Unwritten goal of entrenching more woke employees into the swamp is the opposite of democratic principles the Trump administration's actions are the embodiment of democratic principles this is
▶ 1:58:26what the American people want this is what they voted for the American people overwhelmingly voted for President Trump in a decisive Landslide Victory to reform how our government operates most importantly how the federal Workforce operates the mission of your partnership is building a better government and stronger democracy building a stronger democracy is allowing the will of the people to take effect not actively working to oppose it there have been multiple
▶ 1:58:56reports that you were in communication with the officials at the Biden Administration prior to president Trump taking office is that true we run the sener for presidential transition so we've helped the Trump campaign when they were trying to set up their transition operation in 2016 we've helped every Administration get up set upu right both Republican and Democratic yes we've been in contact with the Biden Administration we've had an open door to everybody if you would like to have the facts I can provide those to you but um let me know because
▶ 1:59:26the reality is we do honor civil servants not political appoes program you identified on Lisa Monaco she was presenting an award as smart political leaders thank you Mr sty I'll reim my let me know when you ever want me to did you discuss any strategies for how to prevent president Trump from firing federal workers I'm sorry in what cont you discuss any strategies for how to prevent president Trump from firing federal workers what context I do not think that it's a good idea to offer the entire Workforce
▶ 1:59:56non-st strategically an opportunity to resign and to press them to do so because you're going to lose cyber security professionals that you don't want to lose if you want toi Dei professionals did you are you trying to stop president Trump's Administration from firing Dei employees that you placed in the federal government we are not engaged in trying to stop anyone from getting fired that's not the role we play what we do say though is when civil servants let me finish the answer Mr Question
▶ 2:00:27excuse me Mr chairman if I'm asked a question do I get to answer it okay then go ahead I'd like to reclaim my time thank you Mr Styer does does your organization receive taxpayer dollars thanks do we receive ta taxpayer dollars we provide services to the government so we do receive taxpayer dollars right I have 3.4 million right here from the American taxpayers they're not interested in Dei Mr sty their interest in qualified people thank you Mr chairman i y back G lady yields
▶ 2:00:57I now recognize Miss Johnson or wait Miss mver I didn't get you before thank you the gentle lady from New Jersey for five minutes of question that's okay thank you Mr chairman um uh thank you chairman thank you ranking members and thank you to the witnesses for joining us today I was a little caught up in that last questioning trying to bring myself back um so as we Face an involveed in an increasingly sophisticated cyber threat landscape our nation's security relies on a robust
▶ 2:01:28well-trained and diverse cyber security Workforce unfortunately the recent decisions as mentioned multiple times here including the harmful hiring freezes and Federal grant interruptions under the Trump Administration have weakened the critical pipeline needed to safeguard our digital infrastructure last time I checked the offering of folks to take a buyout wasn't just offered to folks of diversity or women or disabled it was offered to all employees so it's not about
▶ 2:01:58just laying off Dei or employees that are woke um because everyone got this offer to be able to um take a buyout uh these po policies have stalled critical recruitment efforts delayed hiring of qualified candidates and created vulnerabilities that will persist adding to this damage are the extreme roll backs in diversity equity and inclusion initi Ives which are crucial for addressing the long-standing representation gaps in this field by limiting
▶ 2:02:28opportunities for women people of color and unrepresented communities to enter and advance in cyber security we are missing out on a vast pool of Talent with that being said Mr Styer ID like to go back to you and give you some time um to address some of the things you were talking about in the previous questioning but more so to talk about how in your opinion these specific hire and freezes hinder the development and retention of cyber security expertise across all of our federal
▶ 2:02:58agencies and what steps in your opinion can Congress take to reverse or reduce the long-term impact because there will be um of these policies on our national security so look as we've talked all along here and as the committee both uh Republican and Democrat recognize we're in a hole and the world is getting more scary not less so the reality is we need to see more investment in the Capac city of our public sector to respond to the Cyber challenges when you have hiring refuses that that actually Encompass the Cyber
▶ 2:03:29Workforce of course that's going to diminish capacity of the organization that's a a pure logical proposition the reality is that cisa is under hiring fees even though the offer of uh you know delayed or deferred resignation is not being presented to them so it is harming Sissa but more importantly it's harming every organization inside the federal government that needs cyber talent in order to protect vital interests of our country so this is an issue that is not just about the hiring frees we have to be thinking about the
▶ 2:03:59morale more broadly the workforce and that is not good yeah and and in terms of responding like I I just want to say that you know I'm invited to testify uh here I'm trying to offer the best uh information I possibly can to this committee and honestly I'd like to be treated with respect and I don't think I was thank you thank you for that and I'm sorry that you were not able to experience that I think as human beings and as just grown-ups where we're supposed to be we should be able to treat each other with respect and be respectful and allow
▶ 2:04:29you the time that's why I wanted to give you time to talk about that and I I'm thankful for your organization and the work that they're doing um and not you um I know it's a very hard being in this uh type of you know situation and and addressing some of the things where people want you to be anti- people of color anti- women anti you know against people with disabil but at the end of the day I commend you for everything that you're doing um and know that the day will be better after this hearing so with that I yield back my time
▶ 2:04:59thank you the gentle lady yields I now recognize the chairman of the committee on uh subcommittee on Cyber uh the gentleman from New York Mr garberina thank you Mr chairman thank you very much for having this hearing and uh very excited to support the pivot act I know uh you read a couple names off of co-sponsors I guess we uh we didn't put our paperwork in but we are going to be filing that right away we're going to be glad to you on the B co-sponsor so I'm sorry we didn't get that in soon enough that was our fault but uh thank you all for the witnesses for being here today
▶ 2:05:30um Mr uh rot rot um which one is it Rashad Rashad wonderful thank you um I want to focus in your testimony uh you identified Early Educational engagement is essential not only to Growing the Cyber Workforce but also making students and families aware that these careers exist to begin with um last year I led a a a the DHS cyber security internship program act with congresswoman Clark um and we were very proud of that bill how do you think we can
▶ 2:06:00look to improve Outreach to draw students and the public at large to these opportunities in cyber security uh I I think we need to start as young as we possibly can I know when we started our efforts in in providing K2 education and curriculum uh we didn't think we'd be able to start as young as as we could and we had teachers come to us and say that we could we could provide cyber security awareness uh training at kindergarten that really surprised us but it's been incredibly effective so I think there's a long game
▶ 2:06:30here where we really have to focus at that young of an age so that truly when kids are coming home and talking about becoming doctors lawyers Engineers they're also talking about becoming cyber security superheroes uh so when you talk about kindergart what what what kind of uh what What's happening at kindergarten to get students in so we're we're providing uh lesson plan to teachers so that we're not adding additional lessons uh but we're taking existing lessons that teachers are providing and adding
▶ 2:07:01cyber security aspects into it so basically uh helping uh kids understand uh you know what might what might be a what might be a threat what just opening their eyes would it be helpful you think if sis a validated cyber security curricula for K 12 I think our main focus right now is is uh developing developing that Curriculum by teachers for teachers and that's been our
▶ 2:07:31approach so but does sisa have a role in helping develop that curriculum I I think there definitely could be could be a role for for sure yes do you know if the current currently under the Department of Education um US Department of Education if there's any uh cyber security roles that they play in in in uh in helping States developed curriculum for cyber security uh it's not it's not an area that I that I've focused in our Partnerships from within my organization the training
▶ 2:08:01institute have been more directly with the academic institutions and their role um okay so K through2 is big but what about getting um expanding cyber education what else can we do with expanding cyber ucation after K through 12 I think we can take programs that have historically been focused at colleges and universities and start to move those Downstream into high schools and uh there's we're starting to see a lot of kids now coming out of high school that are uh essentially selftaught and are going directly into the workforce
▶ 2:08:32I think if we take some of those programs that we've traditionally focused at college and university they can definitely be applied at the high school level and and make sure that those kids coming out and going directly into the workforce are even more prepared than what they are we're seeing some of these self-taught uh kids uh uh extremely capable and qualified that's great um and I mentioned the Chairman's pivot act and how that helps with the scholarships and and getting people into the workforce uh but you know there's a half a million
▶ 2:09:02open cyber security jobs at least now uh Nationwide what can we do to get people into the is there is there training programs is there certification programs that people can start now that they don't have to wait to do two years in college because that's necessary but is there something to get people in the Workforce Now absolutely and again I think this is this is we see this again with kids coming out of high school directly into the workforce a lot of self trining going on a lot of corporate entities such as foret we're making our training and
▶ 2:09:33certification freely available so that kids either coming out of a degree program or coming directly of high school can can uh access that training with uh with minimal barriers and in some cases no barriers at all thank you very much uh Dr Russo Mano um you talked about in your test about the challenges colleges face in aligning education and Workforce needs coming from higher education how can we promote skills-based training and modernized degree programs to address this Gap
▶ 2:10:03well thank you for that for that question you know as part of our poly Technic initiative at the University of Memphis we also have benefit of having our own Independent School District we have a prek through 12 Independent School District associated with the university so we're working very hard on on expanding our dual enrollment focusing on cyber security applied AI in advanced manufacturing there's a lot of technology that goes into advanced manufacturing that many students are not aware of you know the advanced robotics the sensors the cyber security the AI so trying to get that penetration into the high schools
▶ 2:10:33through dual enrollment is part of a focus for us at the poly Technic initiative at the University of Memphis hope to partner with others thank you chairman I I yield back gentleman yields I now recognize the gentleman from New York uh our nation's one of really our financial center uh our greatest Financial Center uh obviously very concerned about cyber uh Mr Goldman for five minutes questioning um yes Mr chairman thank you very much and and I agree uh those in New York
▶ 2:11:03City and around the country are very concerned about cyber uh we must be operating in la la land here having a hearing on preparing the pipeline examining the state of America's cyber Workforce where we have three academics who have been brought in by the majority to talk about the Education and Training that we need for more cyber
▶ 2:11:35employees while at the same time the president and his unelected billionaire Master are gutting every single executive branch what's the point of having a pipeline with education if you're taking away all of the jobs if you're sending unvetted uh teenagers with no
▶ 2:12:06security clearance into our various executive branch agencies allowing them to hack and slash into the government Payment Systems the government portal the government databases without any regard to cyber security putting them on private servers and quite obviously to anyone
▶ 2:12:36whether you're an expert on cyber security or not you understand how that jeopardizes the security of every single American's personal identification it provides an opportunity for China who executed the largest cyber security breach of the federal government ever a couple months ago to have access
▶ 2:13:06to private servers that are so clearly easier to hack into and we have no whether these people have security clearances whether they got the their security clearances because Donald Trump passed an executive order saying that he can just bestow security clearances on anyone for six months and so maybe he did that I mean maybe it's the same thing as uh cash Patel saying that Donald
▶ 2:13:37Trump thought declassifying classified information and therefore it's Declassified and that's going to be potentially the New FBI director who is going to oversee Counter Intelligence and cyber security for the FBI this is a guy who supports the purges at the doj and the FBI who promised the purges at the FBI and doj
▶ 2:14:07who lied right left and Center during his hearing who has circumvented normal protocol and practices when he was with the National Security Council when he was with the uh the house intelligence committee when he was with the Department of Defense who every single former Trump Administration official has said is wholly unqualified and dangerous to be in that job and you want to talk about cyber security and recruiting more people
▶ 2:14:38how about we not have heads of executive branch agencies who are jeopardizing our own cyber security who are jeopardizing our own security how about having some degree of protection over our personal identification information who on Earth would ever want to join the federal now if you are
▶ 2:15:09associated with a prosecution that the president of the United States does not like you will be fired you will be fired what law enforcement system in a allows or supports the president of the United States to order the firing of nonpartisan highly trained Law Enforcement
▶ 2:15:39Officers simply because they worked on a case that the president like that is Banana Republic shed and that does not belong in this country and what else doesn't belong in this Congress is this stupid hearing where we're talking about educating a Workforce where there's no demand for that Workforce anymore because Elon Musk is destroying that Workforce it's
▶ 2:16:09like we're in Lila land Mr chairman you're pretending as if reality is not happening down the street and we need more education for cyber security this is a joke and I hope at least Mr chairman if you're going to have hearings on cyber security gentlemen's time has expired I now recognize Mr ogles for five minutes of questioning I want to uh thank you Mr chairman and and thank you to the witnesses a couple of fellow tennesseans there Mr Jones you know you represent uh
▶ 2:16:40Middle Tennessee Electric uh who actually Services part of my district but uh before we get to that I I do want to pee you back on something that you said Mr chairman one of our colleagues had somewhat of a disparaging remark about 20-year olds and so as we as we look to Bad actors uh whe whether it's uh nation states or criminal activity uh the the development of applications such as Tik Tock which have a back door the capability of of assimilating data uh new technologies such as
▶ 2:17:10uh deep seek you know we know that there's a a gap we have half a million um openings in the cyber space that by the way that's the equivalent to our standing United States Army currently and so the future is 16 17 18 year olds the future Workforce and when I say future Workforce I'm just talking about a year or two from now the workforce of today that we need to engage are those 18 19 and 20
▶ 2:17:40year olds right that that that's how we fill this Gap and so to to someone to have to have some disparaging remarks about an age range that is lit literally critical to backfilling this need is is really naive and and Reckless I would say Mr chairman but but on point Mr Jones again and to all of you for being here um you know obviously recruitment is a problem you've got the urban versus rural competitiveness right you've got private private versus government but the reality of the space
▶ 2:18:10we're in is that we have half a million jobs that need to be filled so Mr Jones what can be done to better equip and quite frankly leverage the workforce of today as we fill the pipeline with those 16 17 to 20 year olds Mr Jones Congressman thank you um so you know the I'll point to the pivot ACT first again I think that's that's so fundamentally important and we're appreciative of what um um is happening with regard to that so that's that's an important part of it um
▶ 2:18:40as far as um the work with electric cooperatives we are really good at collaborating together and by extension we are seeking to collaborate with educational institutions at the local level so I think that's important too we can provide for example mentorships for people and again the challenge is not quite the same as you are aware for middlet tennessy electric as it may be for many other electric co-ops in more rural uh areas with Le a few you less economies of scale so the challenge is different from place to
▶ 2:19:10place but I believe that that um our Network our association of cooperatives stands ready to provide something like you're describing to with regard to mentorships but particularly with regard to engagement with uh educational institutions in our communities well and I want to focus on that for just a moment you know so uh your industry your space there's collaboration amongst the cooperatives uh you're working to fill your needs in your industry I think so there's there the solution here you know the scariest phrase in the English language
▶ 2:19:40is from Reagan he said uh that I'm I'm from the government I'm here to help and and so part of the the solution is obviously what the chairman is bringing forward the pivot act it's industry working together to educate re work with those educational institutions um so as we move forward it's us working together to identify the needs and so this is economic in nature right for for local communities for our greater National economy but obviously the battlefield of the future is cyber uh so you know and
▶ 2:20:11and otherwise benign Industries or spaces such as the electric cooperatives such as Hospital Systems we see China and Bad actors in Asian States wanting that information wanting to see if there's a capability to weaponize that against the American people so to play games and to talk about nonsense while this is an important topic that we have to have as we see advances from other countries and Nations as they recognize the need for this and to enhance capabilities it's really
▶ 2:20:41frustrating so I thank you for what you're doing in your space Mr Jones you touched on human behavior in your testimony so you have a Dynam Dynamic scenario where you have uh students that can access your system faculty young and old some of them may not be quite as Adept techn technologically speaking uh part-time employees so how do you uh create access whilst having compliance and security when you're looking at your
▶ 2:21:11systems and of course that applies to best practices to other universities and Etc yes thank you for your question even though um uh the CIO is really primarily responsible for this area I would say that we are doing a lot with a variety of of fishing drills and other generated uh vulnerability uh scenarios to try to improve internally the knowledge base
▶ 2:21:41of our faculty our staff and our students to ensure this critically important data whether it's student data research data uh um the comprehensive mission of the University that we're doing all we can internally with a variety of mock drills to ensure we are appying best practices yes sir Mr chairman I exceeded my time I yield back and thank you sir uh the gentleman yields I now finally get to recognize the gentle lady from Texas Mrs Johnson you're recognized for five minutes
▶ 2:22:12for question thank you Mr chairman I just want to say it's an honor to be on the committee um we have a great panel you're all very impressive in your comments and what I'm hearing from you is we're in a cyber security crisis in this country and that we are in a cyber security crisis um because we have a Workforce that is severely diminished we have we've lacked educational preparedness
▶ 2:22:42we are lacking a plan to recruit develop the best and the brightest Talent from every corner from black kids kids women Asian kids diversity equity and inclusion we need all the kids on this fight is that correct all of them and so one of the things that has not been discussed about today that I'm very concerned with well another point that you've all highlighted is the need
▶ 2:23:12for a definite more robust cyber education plan to reach into high schools to to reach into colleges to create internships we have cyber core which is a great program but it needs to be enhanced but it's an educational program so I am very concerned in light of the backdrop of what we have already seen of the last two weeks of shuttering our federal Workforce shuttering
▶ 2:23:43usaid intimidating our law enforcement intimidating cyber enforcement Personnel but we haven't even even talked about what Trump plans to do with the Department of Education the New York Times is reporting these planning to shutter it too so I assume that you all agree with me that if the federal government dismantles the Department of Education that could have catastrophic
▶ 2:24:13implications to the security and the safety of this country do any of you disagree with that you know I think that is really important for the American people to realize that this is not politics this isn't theater this is the foundational premises of our security and Mr Jones I want to ask you a question I'm a Texas Democrat I have a grid in our state
▶ 2:24:44that's messed up that has failed and I live through a situation where our grid failed for 10 days and hundreds of people died and businesses suffered mightily and people suffered mightily as Rural Electric Co-op you provide infrastructure to millions of people in this country you provide Power hopefully you'll provide broadband and but opportunity which I
▶ 2:25:14believe is a critical infrastructure as well but how devastating would it be to your co-ops for a Cyber attack to shut down your grid well it's something we think about a lot um and I recall of course the situation you're describing from three Winters ago I believe it was in Texas and of course that was U many things went into that not a cyber security incident but that wasn't your point but I mean it's uh you know we want to keep the lights on yeah
▶ 2:25:45that that's why we're that's why we're here for our members depend on us and so this this subject is is so important for us for for that reason so we're putting in place as best we can resources processes technology to make sure that we are doing our part but this is bigger than this is bigger than us and so that's and that's why we're here too so we welcome this conversation right I and I welcome this hearing Mr chairman Mr chairman um
▶ 2:26:15because I do think that cyber security is one of the biggest vulnerabilities of our country and it's the new frontier of security and threat um and it is really um frightening and scary to many people out in this country the fact that the Trump Administration is doing everything it can to undermine the confidence in the cyber security Workforce that we have in this country by dismissing employees by um shuttering
▶ 2:26:45and hiring freezes by dismissing the Department of Education by doing all all of the things by undermining the CIA by undermining the FBI to prevent cyber crime in this country we're in a critical mass and Mr Styer I want to go back and give you an opportunity on Dei we need everyone Dei is about reaching kids who have under been who have not been adequately reached in the past and giving them opportunity to see the light we need to do that right
▶ 2:27:16there's no doubt that we need to pull from Talent uh where we can find it everywhere and I think really quite importantly we need to create environments in any workplace that enable people to do their best um and that's how you get better performance so that that is a basic proposition we ought to be doing good Management in government just like we should see good management everywhere thank you so much Mr chairman I yield My Time gentleman yields back a recognized gentleman from Alabama Mr strong thank you Mr chairman uh Mr russano I re recently
▶ 2:27:47introduced legislation the Cyber core enhancement act to extend the existing cyber core scholarship for service programs participation period from 3 to 5 years allowing local colleges and universities to continue to produce highly trained cyber Security Experts as you know local colleges and universities uh including the University of Alabama in Huntsville affectionately known as UAH in my district leverage these programs to recruit retain and place highly
▶ 2:28:17skilled cyber Security Experts with with an average ACT test score of a 28.5 where 80% of the graduates remain locally after graduation in fact UAH has the second highest number of participants and graduates in the Pro program submitting North Alabama uh leadership uh in cyber security education this will pay dividends for the FBI cyber uh threat division that is locating in Huntsville as we speak Mr ramano
▶ 2:28:48can you discuss the benefits the expanding the participation period to enable students to pursue Advanced degrees yes thank you for your question and we've enjoyed the opportunity to partner with UAH in the past um yes this is a a multi-prong uh uh opportunity for us in any way that we can um offer opportunities to all students I definitely agree with all students and how we and uh then commit ourselves to a successful student outcome I think the expansion
▶ 2:29:18of eligibility in terms of number of you years um also the opportunity for the uh delayed service commitment to uh provide an opportunity to either pursue a baloria degree or an advanced graduate degree I think those aspects of both the uh cyber core and potentially the pivot act are critically important you know many times students are looking not only for that first job but a a satisfying career progression that provides opportunity for added responsibility and I think
▶ 2:29:48what you cited uh provides an an opportunity to do just that thank you thank you I also want to mention we have a Statewide cyber High School located in the second largest Research Park in the United States in Huntsville Alabama uh it's another level of starting this uh progression so that we can uh bring more to colleges and universities as as we have covered uh the Chairman's uh cyber pivot act and uh my cyber core legislation both aim to strengthen the cyber security Workforce
▶ 2:30:18pipeline how would these programs complement each other to address the current cyber security Talent shortage in my Pro in my opening remarks I talked some about some of the challenges around transfer articulation so I think we have some opportunities to improve uh uh smooth Pathways for advancement so if you look at technical schools community colleges there are some challenges in getting uh the knowledge and skills and abilities acquired through those programs to matriculate
▶ 2:30:48to foryear un Unity so that's an opportunity for improvement for us thank you in addition to this legislation what more can we do to ensure we recruit and train future generations of cyber security experts in the United States once again I think it's the Partnerships that have been talked about here today um a steadfast commitment um Partnerships between the public and the private sector I think we all ultimately have this same goal here provide opportunities for students that make an impact to improve the Safety and Security of our nation
▶ 2:31:19thank you also wanted to touch on the pay differences between cyber Security Professionals in government and the private sector in your opinion what more can we do to recruit and incentivize the best of the best cyber Security Professionals to stay in government and to contribute to protecting our nation security from adversaries uh and those who look to America once again I think that um opportunity for pursuing um continued education while a civil servant is critically
▶ 2:31:49important whether that's a Balor degree a master's degree even a PhD having those opportunities within the government I think would be very attractive in terms of retention thank you uh Mr Jones first I want to commend you I'm very familiar with your power system um we've evaluated Winchester in that area and has been very beneficial years ago when uh I was the County Commission chairman in Huntsville Alabama uh the energy sector has been described as an enabling function uh for all critical infrastructure
▶ 2:32:20sectors making it one of the most vital and one of the most targeted knowing this it is of no surprise that the energy sector was targeted by Vault typhoon uh Mr Jones uh given the increasing cyber threats to energy infrastructure how can Federal Workforce initiatives better support the utility industry in developing skilled cyber Security Professionals and what role should public private Partnerships playing that effort uh Congressman thank you and so I think again the the the pivot act and and the virtues of that
▶ 2:32:50deepening the talent pool we need you know more not fewer resources so I think that's that's the essence of what I would uh suggest in the limited time but uh happy to be a partner with you yeah I want to thank each of the witness for be here chairman green I yield back the gentleman yields um I now recognize uh Mr Hernandez is that right yes for uh five minutes uh the gentleman from Puerto Rico thank you Mr chairman um when we talk about the eii we tend to
▶ 2:33:20focus on an ideological or a partisan perspective but I more concerned about the Practical consequences that anti- Dei policies can have on US citizens on the US Mainland and on what concerns me the most which is Puerto Rico uh the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico which I represent here in Congress Puerto Rico has officially uh two languages but in practice we all speak Spanish in our everyday lives and
▶ 2:33:50unfortunately in my opinion a significant majority of Puerto Ricans do not speak English even in government uh among government employees which brings me to the following we have a history of cyber attacks in the island against the Puerto Rico government where we have had the collaboration of the US federal government in addressing these cyber attacks in light of the anti- Dei agenda
▶ 2:34:20Mr sty how do you how do you see the impact of this agenda in Puerto Rico given that the government operates predominantly in Spanish um I'm sorry that I don't think I can really speak directly to the impact on Puerto Rico with any expertise um I would well then sorry I I'll I'll broaden the question um having a diverse Federal Workforce helps the federal government collaborate let's assume diverse me Spanish speaking or
▶ 2:34:51familiar with Hispanic cultures uh will enable them to work more effectively with a Spanish speaking government official um do you see that having any potential consequences uh in cyber security efforts and Partnerships um as we we covered earlier I do think that it's fundamental to draw best-in-class Talent from all communities and that requires investment to make sure that that can happen we've heard this in terms of rural areas versus urban areas this is true across the board so
▶ 2:35:21um we do have an incredible Gap that we're trying to close it's going to it's getting larger not smaller in my view so we need to work harder and uh I think fundamental to that will be um intense efforts to get Talent from everywhere so uh to that extent and I the back half too is create environments that enable people uh to provide their best and and no matter who they are uh and that's part of the responsibility of good leaders and good culture and would you
▶ 2:35:51agree that Beyond any ideological or partisan concern it can just be simply practical to have a diverse Workforce 100% look I think that this is the focus that I'm trying to to to stay on is the practicality here um there's a lot to be done it has huge consequence in ensuring that you have you know best-in-class Talent from everywhere and again environments that enable your people to perform no matter who they are that is just you know good management and
▶ 2:36:21effective in the federal context effective use of taxpayer dollars well thank you and I yield the remainder of my time the gentleman yields I now recognize the gentle lady from South Carolina Mrs bigs for five minutes a question thank you chairman green for holding this important hearing today and thank you to all of our Witnesses for testimonies I believe that while cyber security vulnerabilities affect all communities the unique challenges faced by South Carolina's
▶ 2:36:52thirdd district and similar rural communities around the country make us particularly vulnerable and disproportionately impacted by cyber attacks so I've heard from Electric co-ops and Wastewater system operators as recent as yesterday in my office and other utility providers that serve hundreds of thousands of my constituents it is evident that a key component of these challenges is the limited availability
▶ 2:37:22of a local readily accessible professional cyber security Workforce um providers in rural areas like in my district Greenwood Newberry Abbyville okone and mccormic they frequently lack the funding necessary to implement robust cyber security infrastructure and training furthermore they struggle to attract and to retain qual qualified cyber security professionals who are often
▶ 2:37:52drawn to larger Urban centers with more lucrative opportunities so with this combination of limited resources resources and a shortage of skilled Personnel it leaves our rural communities particularly vulnerable to malicious actors seeking to exploit their digital weakness so because of the heightened vulnerability of rural communities and critical infrastructure sectors to cyber attacks
▶ 2:38:22I find the Cyber pivot acts emphasis on placing cyber security interns in these areas particularly compelling so this Focus addresses a critical need Bridging the cyber security skills Gap where it's most acutely felt as a proud original co-sponsor of this legislation I believe that the Strategic placement of these individual ual represents a promising approach to strengthening
▶ 2:38:53our nation's cyber SEC security resilience particularly in the areas that need it most so in addressing Mr Jones um from your perspective what critical handson skills can entrylevel Talent learn from interning with a utility company like those in your Co-op and the second question um I'd like to tag on to that is in return how can interns provide value to your
▶ 2:39:23Workforce congresswoman thank you for the question and you summarized a lot of our concerns very well so um yes the in so internship opportunities I think the skills that they could glean would be um real world and and and Technical certainly but um something that speaks to the latter to your second question I should say in in addition to that is that we tend to be able to when we expose people to what an Electric Co-op is and the virtues of service
▶ 2:39:54um you know again we're good jobs in rural areas if we expose them to what we do um we are able to show them about who we are and um we can often win people uh especially younger people who want purpose in what they do because we have an incredible purpose as part of our organization so I think that those internship programs will provide well-rounded opportunities for them but allow us to expose you know who we are you know and we've done this for a long time when you think about classically
▶ 2:40:24what a co-op student is it's you think of engineering student that comes to the utility and learns more about engineering is mentored the same thing can happen with this and through the pivot act I believe and so we're excited about that so have you found that keeping those individuals um what would be your perspective on that retaining good quality so um in terms of trying to retain those individuals again I think that there's something to be said for the virtue of our
▶ 2:40:54of our mission and purpose but um you know understanding what the market is demanding from the standpoint of salary and benefits um you know we have to do our best to get those right and that's a challenge that we have so we look to um uh any suggestions that others have in that regard but it's something that we're working very hard to do and again we we collaborate so well within the Cooperative Community these are conversations we're having routinely um today at mte we're having a meeting with a number of TVA
▶ 2:41:25electric cooperatives and Municipal systems talking about this very issue too so it's something we're serious about but it's a bigger issue than we are so we're happy to have conversations and get advice from others thank you so much and my time's up so I yield back the the gentle lady yields I now recognize the gentleman from Texas Mr Turner appreciate you and uh fire away five minutes thank you Mr chairman um I think we can all agree regardless of whether we're Democrats or
▶ 2:41:55Republicans that the cyber security threats are increasing that we're in a major crisis that we need to address I I think we can all agree on that uh I will tell you that over the last few days I have gotten a number of calls from people uh in Houston and as a former mayor of Houston concerned about uh the system um their social security
▶ 2:42:26information um medical information tax information will you agree with me that you're sending this information from various sources that's is it's important to have the right checks in place to make sure that you don't make us more vulnerable to these cyber attacks is that is that important a consideration that you're taking place um and so
▶ 2:42:57that's what I'm hearing from people as we talk about cyber security we're talking about it today they know it's getting worse and they are concerned who has my information and Congressman Turner is it secure and I'm having a hard time explaining that to them another point that I want to add uh it is important will you agree that we train the existing Workforce within the federal government throughout the
▶ 2:43:27entire federal system that's that's important um and I do think it's important to uh do everything we can to make sure that that training occurs um but Mr Russman you made a comment that said young people need to see themselves in these fields and then Mr ranto uh you said we need to break down the barriers of training and with have been 500,000
▶ 2:43:58people short in this area in the United States we agree that we need to be very intentional in recruiting training bringing people into into this space and it shouldn't be where for example you mentioned K through 12 um colleges and universities community colleges technical schools but that also include historically black colleges and universities as well in terms of reaching out to them and
▶ 2:44:28bringing them into this space would you agree and I think you all also agree that you could be black white or brown you could be from Urban America or Rural America um your qualifications are not diminished by who you look like or geographically where you come from but rather I would argue the entire conversation of protecting us in the future is
▶ 2:44:58strengthened when we have people coming from all sectors of America any disagreement on that so when people argue that um if you're a diverse I'm an African-American and I go through the training I go to your schools I'm educated I'm prepared and if I am in this space it doesn't mean that I'm incompetent it doesn't mean that I'm in qualify quite
▶ 2:45:28frankly those arguments help to discourage people from moving into these places would you agree with that any disagreement on that and that's why I am concerned with this with this conversation about diversity equity and inclusion what I have found in my lifetime is that it's important to have people coming from all walks of life uh which strengthens
▶ 2:45:59our organization doesn't diminish them it strengthens our organizations so Mr Rosman since you made the point that it's important for people to see themselves in these fields could you elaborate on that for me well Congressman thank you so much for your comments and I I agree with you we we need to embrace um every everyone from all walks of life all backgrounds um at the University of Memphis we're particularly proud of our very diverse student body significant African American um population um you know in
▶ 2:46:29some cases I think we are looking at um where we need to reframe how uh a potential uh Outreach is described and if I think that we look at areas like first generation students students that have uh significant unmet financial need um we can um impact um many of the populations that you've been discussing so I I agree with your comments thank you are you gentleman yields I now recognize Mr not for five minutes a gentleman
▶ 2:46:59from North Carolina for his five minutes of thank you Mr chairman um I'll start with you Dr Rano uh if you had to describe the current state of the the cyber security ecosystem would you would you describe it as one that's lacking in Personnel exclusively or are those who are in the space right now here in the United States are they lacking in um a skill set are they lacking in advancement are we being outpaced on that front as
▶ 2:47:30well um thank you for your question I I think frankly it's a combination of both although the daa data is very compelling regarding um the need to grow our Workforce I think that data is very clear um however if you look at certain circumstances where industry in particular is going after after mid and advanced level uh cyber security uh professionals that also speaks to a gap in terms of the knowledge and abilities of our Workforce okay Mr Jones in terms
▶ 2:48:00of of uh servicing rural communities and uh sort of outside the urban areas describe how cyber security plays a role in in the threats that you face and also and secondly to that how is the threat increased if people come here to the United States outside of the law outside of us uh being aware of it in terms that they have physical access to your facilities uh that you represent yes sir uh Congressman thank you so one thing I would touch
▶ 2:48:30on uh I believe to the first part of your question um the the fa the the threats we Face something we haven't talked so much about today that I would like to if I could is that it's not just an issue of Technology process and and specific cyber security resources it is but it's also about a culture of cyber security within the organization because um and my colleagues would know better than I probably but as far as most of the incidents
▶ 2:49:00we see they're intrusions that have resulted from an email lapse of some kind someone clicks on the wrong thing so making sure that our employees we have a culture of safety we have to have a culture of cyber security awareness as well and making sure that we're facilitating that throughout the organization is very important right but but protecting your facilities physically is also important for cyber security as well they're not all overseas correct if we if we have cybercity criminals that are here illegally in this country that makes that that adds a layer
▶ 2:49:31of vulnerability to the systems represent that's right that's that's great and we're and we're watching that as well that's that's the the other component to it I would say if I could speculate with regard to the risks you know cyber security is one that we're we're keenly concerned about we're most concerned about but the physical pieces as well we have to have um again equipment processes people in place to safeguard against that potential as well that's very real yep now Mr sty is sty correct great uh just just briefly
▶ 2:50:01one thing that that is upsetting in this job is the is the the speaking with broad brushes and that's unfortunate for our dialogue I think specificity is is the best way forward and and as a former federal employee I was a federal prosecutor I'm somewhat troubled by the dialogue and it CU obviously it's it's inhibited by time but to say that all civil servants are uniformly described as excellent in their craft eager to better themselves while they're employed um proficient in serving
▶ 2:50:31the taxpayers above all else or highly focused in patriotic in execution of their duties that is certainly true for some I as a prosecutor me I worked with agents at just about every agency we had great agents and we had some that were there that you don't know what they did all day yep and part of maintaining efficiency and Effectiveness I think you would admit and agree with me not admit I'm not trying to extract it but yes is figuring out efficien I agree 100% yes figuring out ways to to constructively remove those who were not motivated
▶ 2:51:01100% And one of the frustrations I had in the federal Workforce is when there were people who were Partners or people you had to work with in other agencies um firing just was not an option or removing them and if you did cross that threshold immediate litigation and burdensome burdens some countersuits would would have been implemented so given the threat of cyber security the need to maintain a professional efficient and effective Workforce how can we better extract those who are not focused
▶ 2:51:31100% And I entirely agree with you like all workforces they're better and worse and I think that the federal government more broadly has not had um effective focus on these kinds of management issues so there are some system changes that ought to take place uh the the it's too complic to actually fire people you have to decide depending on you know what the issue is where you go that could actually be streamlined in a very profound way the thing that would change it the most would be actually to get managers better
▶ 2:52:02trained on doing the performance uh evaluation that you're describing and to have leaders that actually support their management to get rid of the poor performers because right now it's easier to ignore the problem than to address the problem so the rules can improve things but It ultimately is a management respons responsibility and that focus is by and large not there okay all right Mr chairman I'm over I yield back the gentleman's time is expired I now recognize the ranking member for his closing statement thank you Mr chairman
▶ 2:52:32uh first let me uh thank our Witnesses thank you for uh being here for a little while uh but it's still shorter than most hearings so uh there are some benefits uh Mr chair I ask unanimous consent uh for the record uh to be included the following documents an article in cyber security entitled cyber
▶ 2:53:02security government experts are gassed at security failures at do Doge takeover a copy of a letter committee Democrats have sent to OPM regarding the impact of the hiring free on federal cyber Workforce a copy of the letter committed Democrats have sent om on security threats douge poses to networks uh without
▶ 2:53:32objection so order also want to thank again our Witnesses for coming and testifying today and sharing their expertise uh I was a uh long years ago uh an instructor and uh uh those of you who are in education you have my heartfelt support and sympathy uh for the talent and and challenges you have it it's indeed uh
▶ 2:54:02uh a challenge I have Rural Electric coops in my district and uh one of the uh things this government committed to was having electricity to every house in America and it could not have been uh accomplished had it not been for Rural Electric Coop so I thank you uh for that work and uh but I also uh know that all of you take uh this topic
▶ 2:54:33of cyber security very seriously but I'm sorry for Mr Styer uh for that unjustified treatment uh that you received from Congressman green green uh you a witness uh uh for this committee and and we owe all our Witnesses a certain amount of courtesy uh you did not deserve what you receive and if not from anybody else I apologize
▶ 2:55:03we're better than that uh we should not uh antagonize people who we invite into this great institution to offer their expertise and and so for that I just want you to say that uh I appreciate all of you for being here but I I don't like people being uh maligned by any member of this committee so Mr chairman the goal of building a robust cyber Workforce is to improve the security
▶ 2:55:34of our networks infrastructure owned by both the government and the private sector as we sit here today Elon Musk and his douge team are rifling through America's data and accessing agency networks all while ignoring federal information security and privacy laws and the majority is silent about it we can't jump up and down about the Cyber threats
▶ 2:56:05posed by China and the need to build a cyber Workforce to defend against them while at the same time allowing unchecked access to the federal Networks I urge my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to stop pretending like it's business as usual and take these threats seriously we all appreciate the urgency of addressing the Cyber Workforce shortage China and other adversaries are
▶ 2:56:35trying to hack our government in critical infrastructures every day but the Trump musk Administration war on the federal Workforce is putting our national security security at risk while Trump's vague executive orders may have theoretical exceptions for National Security its application across the federal government has clearly impacted cyber security positions
▶ 2:57:05for example a search on the US a jobs we website shows that there's a hiring freeze in place at sisa right now and in the administration's Reckless rush to force out federal employees they sent their resignation letter to Sister employees only clarifying later that they were not eligible Mr styr
▶ 2:57:35example in his opening statement of a student in the Cyber Corp scholarships for service demonstrates just how serious the impact these policies have had on people seeking to join the F Federal cyber Workforce again I thank the witnesses for their time and I hope all members of the committee join together to push back on the Trump's administration's dangerous policies
▶ 2:58:06toward the federal cyber Workforce our nation's security depends on it I yield back gentleman Ys I now recognize myself for a closing statement um first I'd like to mention to everybody sort of an announcement I guess uh we just got another uh Commendation from IBM uh to support the pivot act another stakeholder I mean if you look at the list of these companies that thought
▶ 2:58:36today's hearing and today's the discussion about this bill was really an an important thing you'd wonder why all the people over here were so critical and some called it even a stupid hearing but I you know I um I guess those companies are all you know going the wrong way um they're not of course and we appreciate the support uh despite what the left side of this committee has said today uh in closing I want to thank our Witnesses for their informative testimony
▶ 2:59:06I I really appreciate all of you sharing your comments uh the Cyber threat environment continues to evolve uh and it's it's a huge risk to our country the fact that uh volt typhoon Salt typhoon are where they are or where they've been should scale scare the hell out of every American and we have a massive shortage of people and as we looked over the past you know my first term is Chairman we identified the priorities what are the
▶ 2:59:36what is the and this is the workforce shortage is number one and that's why this committee last week's committee uh focused on Cyber the first of this uh this Cong Congress and this committees um nation state actors like China Russia Iran routinely Target critical networks businesses in both private and public sectors and it's vital that we scale the workforce up I am disappointed that some seem concerned about criticizing efforts to create much needed efficiency and Improvement within
▶ 3:00:06the federal government than the actual Mis and the actual misallocation of massive taxpayer funds that could have gone to cyber um today's hearing and the Cyber pivot act are focused on leveraging flexible approaches to close Talent gaps and improve our cyber Workforce using lessons and approaches from the private sector I think we would all agree that developing our cyber Workforce should be much higher priority than spending 25 million to promote green
▶ 3:00:36transportation in the country of Georgia are spending taxpayer dollars teaching journalist in Sri Lanka to avoid using binary gender language or to take another example the federal government spending 2 million to promote Moroccan pottery classes another 2 million to promote tourism in Lebanon which is under a travel warning from the department all discovered by the very organization that nearly every member of that side of the committee spent today's Committee hearing talking about when
▶ 3:01:07we're here to talk about you know this massive cyber shortage and risk to our um these are just the tip of the iceberg I someone told me as I was walking in this morning we sent $49 million to Guatemala to build a gas station that never got built thank God someone's figuring this out the corruption that's happened of course they want to jump up and down and say somebody's not supposed to be here A guy by the way who has a works
▶ 3:01:37for na builds rockets for NASA and has a top secret security clearance I'll just correct the record on that when you bring efficiency to government you invest in the core needs of government what is a core need of government cyber security the enemy has invaded our infrastructure and our networks we need every penny we've got to go toward things like the pivot act our approach to cyber
▶ 3:02:07pivot act has received significant support from the Cyber uh security Community trade organizations businesses we've talked about this I look forward to making this bill become law this Congress because our nation needs it and even the witness from the other side agreed with that and I'll make a a quick comment about uh when you're in a Committee hearing as a witness the the the representative
▶ 3:02:37owns their time Mr s if you were offended I apologize but they own their time and in this here in this committee room and in every committee room I've seen this happen many times where someone shuts down the witness to say what they want to say so uh we gaveled down people in this committee on my side of the aisle when they did cross the line and attack the witnesses you know verbally with character I didn't see that happen today
▶ 3:03:08and so we let that continue but it it it is interesting how the the the politics of this place works um and what the rules really are but I I I want to catch you after this so I can talk with you in person I want to again thank the witnesses for being here the members for uh uh their their questioning this
▶ 3:03:46hearing e