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▶ 0:12:42good afternoon everyone the subcommittee will come to order I would like to welcome everyone to the first hearing of the subcommittee on oversight and investigations of the 119th Congress while not not new to the committee all of our members other than myself are new to the subcommittee I'm confident that we will continue to work in a bipartisan manner to hold the VA to its mission of providing worldclass care for our veterans additionally I would like to congratulate Mr Doug Collins on his confirmation to serve as the VA secretary
▶ 0:13:12I look forward to working with him this Congress last Congress we uncovered countless instances where the VA failed to hold bad employees accountable and ultimately let veterans down Time After Time career government employees were protected at the expense of veterans protecting bad employees from the consequences of failing the veterans they serve is unacceptable especially at the cost of the taxpayer dollar
▶ 0:13:43veterans should always be at the Forefront of va's mind when they make decisions unfortunately too many times bureaucracy is put first and Veterans come in second I do believe that 99% of va employees are dedicated and hardworking public servants that in many cases want to serve their fellow veterans while still working in a productive accountable workplace over the past few years whistleblowers continue to describe situations where VA leaders face little discipline despite investigations substantiating the allegations against
▶ 0:14:13them it takes an incredible amount of strength and fortitude to come forward to blow the whistle on wrongdoing in the VA I want to take a moment to thank the whistleblowers who have courageously come forward to the VA and to Congress to bring attention to these problems your bravery is one of the reasons we were able to do our oversight work in Congress in Buffalo one veteran with cancer did not receive care for 10 weeks because the leadership at the facility failed to connect him with the care he needed this committee sent multiple questions regarding on ongoing investigations
▶ 0:14:43or disciplinary actions for this failure in in our care and our questions went unanswered in my own District the poor management at the Hampton VA Medical Center caused the facility to be left with one anesthesiologist to serve every patient despite VA taking action I have heard continued allegations about the quality of care issues at Hampton to date I have still not received clear indication that the VA fully investigated the local leaders at this facility as a former provider and nurse practitioner these stories are heartbreaking
▶ 0:15:14our patients deserve better unfortunately this is not an isolated issue even more shocking there have been instances where the VA promoted leaders even after they were found to have engaged in misconduct this is why chairman Bost along with every Republican on this committee reintroduced the restore VA accountability Act of 2025 this legislation makes clear that bad VA employees need to be held accountable to ensure that the best federal employees are serving veterans Congress needs to solidify this good government measure
▶ 0:15:45this legislation will address many of the concerns and challenges that we will hear from our Witnesses during today's hearing as a provider myself I know that the leader leaders at local hospitals play a critical role in ensuring patient safety they are responsible for creating a positive work environment that allows nurses and doctors to care for the patients they serve at the VA that is Veterans if the leaders are not holding themselves to a high standard then they do not need to be in leadership it's that simple as someone with experience working with the
▶ 0:16:15VA and Veteran care I know firsthand the bulk of va employees do good work and provide safe patient care for our veterans this work is valuable to our nation and these employees deserve safe and sanitary working conditions the American people have given us a mandate to make sure their government works for them not poor performing career government employees and the VA is no different it should go without saying that veterans have earned A system that serves them well I'm looking forward to working with the Trump Administration to course correct the mistakes from the previous four years I look
▶ 0:16:45forward to hearing from our Witnesses today about how the VA will hold its employees accountable to the mission by restoring accountability at the VA we will ensure that the VA puts veterans first I now recognize ranking member Ramirez for her opening comments thank you chair kiggins I look forward to working with you on the oversight investigation subcommittee as its ranking member I believe we as members of this committee have an obligation and a shared responsibility to ensure that the VA is succeeding in its mission to provide veterans
▶ 0:17:15worldclass Healthcare and benefits that they have not just earned but that they deserve but the title of this hearing and the Republican majority's approach to this topic makes it clear to me that not everyone in this room takes that responsibility seriously it is clear the intent of the majority is to undermine the VA and its Mission by vilifying and persecuting an important asset the hundreds of thousands of public servants who show up to work every single day to serve our veterans let's keep in
▶ 0:17:45mind that a third of va employees are veterans themselves the end goal of their vilification is the privatization of the VA for the profit of Trump's billionaire bosses so I want to suggest a more appropriate title perhaps it should be more like unaccountable billionaires first veterans last the musk Trump agenda in the 18 days that Trump has been in office he has gone on a chaotic Rampage to make the federal government
▶ 0:18:15a workplace for its employees for its three million employees Trump wants to either fill those positions with magga operatives and Loyalists or Outsource contracts to his billionaire boss who were lined up right in front row at inauguration folks that doesn't feel like it's about our veterans it's not accountability it's about profit and Trump is not even hiding it on January 31st he sat in the Oval Office after sending federal employees a
▶ 0:18:46buyout email identical to the unelected unaccountable president musk who sent to his former Twitter employees and said quote it's our Dream to have everybody almost working in the private sector Trump and musk are the definition of Horrible Bosses and they're using the bad boss Playbook to push public servants out of their jobs for those VA employees listening look I want to say this to you I know you have figured this out yourselves but do not take deceptive offers
▶ 0:19:16stay in the fight with us we need you our veterans need you what musk and Trump are doing to the federal Workforce through various executive orders om memoranda and tweets is demeaning it's shameful and it's threatening and their actions are going to have dangerous impacts for our veterans because within hours of being back in the office Trump ordered an across theboard hiring free at federal agencies after the outpour of confusion of concern and Trump inflicted chaos VA employees experience Trump eventually
▶ 0:19:46gave into the onset of pressure from Democrats and Exempted some VA Health Care positions from the free let me be clear despite our advocacy and pressure there are still thousands of vacant for jobs at the VA that will go unfilled these jobs are mission critical claims processors disability examiners maintenance workers Environmental Management technicians Food Service workers just to name a few the VA cannot deliver the benefits or veterans have earned and deserve without these people
▶ 0:20:17patient safety cannot be compromised because we know what's going to happen veterans are going to suffer but that's the whole point right that is exactly what Trump and Vance want they want to rple vaa so they can sell it off piece by piece to the highest bidder the greedy billionaires sitting in awe in the front row at Trump's inauguration stand to turn their billions into trillions at the expense of federal Workforce everyday working class American taxpayers and ultimately veterans I want to make myself very clear I take our oversight responsibility
▶ 0:20:48very seriously and in my role as a ranking member extremely seriously since I joined this committee there have been several investigations into employee wrongdoing that came to our attention and and they were alarming we heard hearings last Congress that touched on issues at the VA central office Hampton Loma Linda Eastern Colorado Buffalo and mountain in each of those cases the Inspector General and VA identified wrongdoing rooted it out and disciplin the employees in accordance with the law it is
▶ 0:21:18a misrepresentation of the law to say that VA does not have adequate legal Authority Under Title 5 to hold employees accountable VA discipline employees under Title 5 every single day and I have no problem with holding employees accountable and I implore the vi to do so to ensure veterans are receiving the best cure and benefits they deserve what I'm not going to be standing for is ity an excuse of my colleagues across the aisle as they complicit work with the Trump Administration to
▶ 0:21:48abuse their power subversion of due process rights afforded to federal employees and the deconstruction of the services and programs that provide veterans the benefits they have earned and they and look if you want to have real conversations about accountability at the VA let's have it I'm at the table ready to talk and I know that my colleagues are as well let's talk about ensuring that veterans get the benefits they promise let's talk about improving training for HR and supervisors let's talk about breaking down reporting silos for employees to disclose mixed
▶ 0:22:18conduct when they actually see it let's talk about our expectations for leadership when issues Arise at a facility let's talk about ensuring VA staff work in an environment that empowers them to put veteran Safety First when we have a president who removes over a dozen inspector generals charged with being independent Arbiters of Truth and transparency in government in the middle of the night I find it hard to believe that this is the party that is truly interested in making the VA more accountable for veterans
▶ 0:22:49so with that I want to introduce our minority witness today um M Mr Donald Sherman who's going to be joining us from citizens for responsibility ethics in Washington or crew and crew's ethos is Americans deserve a democracy that's ethical accountable and open I couldn't agree more if there's an expert on government accountability out there it's you Mr Sherman thank you for being here and I look forward to your testimony with that chairman I yield back the chel recognizes ranking member Tano for five
▶ 0:23:19minutes for any remarks uh thank you chair kiggins for courtesy uh let's talk about account abil at VA if my majority colleagues want to use this committee's time to take a look back at the Biden Harris Administration I offer to take us about take us back a bit further I appreciate the opportunity to do a history lesson for those who may be unfamiliar or who have forgotten how uh Trump and his Lackey sabotaged VA from
▶ 0:23:50within during his first Administration by sewing fear and hostility in its Workforce he is following that same Playbook now that he has regained power and it is clear that Trump is on a Witch Hunt against VA employees just earlier this week he sent Elon musk's Entourage to VA central office to do who knows what Trump has allowed musk's team of teenage interns to access collect and poke around the private information of American citizens
▶ 0:24:20at treasury some of which includes veterans data and I'm deeply concerned that they are doing the same at VA veter are at very real risk and we demand answers unelected bureaucrats and billionaires now have access to hordes of private data but are not being held to any of the same privacy standards we ask of va employees or partners that doesn't sound very accountable to me but perhaps this is all part of the Republicans plan for
▶ 0:24:50VA as I have explained many times a key step of the Republican VA death spiral is an Eros of Veteran trust in the VA Workforce that's the purpose of this hearing today my colleagues are painting a distorted picture of the past of the past to make sure uh to make their case as to why Congress needs to rush past rush to pass their incredibly flawed and unconstitutional restore VA
▶ 0:25:21account accountability Act of 2025 let me tell you why their case fails this is their third bite at the the apple of the Apple to attempt to make and I say to attempt to make it easier for VA to to fire employees I say attempt with emphasis because when the Republicans tried this in 2014 and 2017 they failed egregiously and Veterans and taxpayers were left holding the bag the 2014
▶ 0:25:51Choice act included expedited authorities to remove VA senior leaders or demote them to a lower position in employees who were removed or demoted using that Authority challenged the laws UNC the Law's constitutionality in court the Department of Justice ultimately declined to defend the law from those challenges and VA ceased uh using using the law to discipline employees I want to be clear that I did in fact vote in favor of choice and
▶ 0:26:21the VA accountability and whistleblower protection act of 2017 we were still dealing with the Fallout of the Phoenix wait time Scandal and at the time these bills seemed like they would help VA weather that crisis however hindsight is 2020 and I learned a valuable lesson not to tr not to trust Trump with power instead of using the 2017 law to improve VA Trump and his corrupt allies weaponized the bill to intimidate employees who were perceived to be unloyal
▶ 0:26:52to Trump and to remove employees without due process during Trump's first go around at VA his team set up the office of account of accountability and whistleblower protection otherwise known as oawp as required in the 2017 law they then used that office to retaliate against the whistleblowers they were supposed to protect I wish I was making this up but it's well documented truth the Inspector General and other Watchdog organizations like the project on government oversight and government
▶ 0:27:22accountability project helped bring this Mel feasance to light ultimately however during the Biden haris Administration oawp was able to turn things around and become a respected organization we regularly relied on to investigate and recommend discipline for employee misconduct the death nail for the 2017 law came when the court scrutinized its implementation and VA ultimately quit disciplining employees under its so-called section 714 authorities to avoid further
▶ 0:27:52litigation as a reminder this is exactly what happened with the 2014 law settlements from the the use of the 2017 law resulted in 140 million taxpayer dollars being paid out to former employees and if that's not a failure for veterans I don't know what is the restore VA accountable Act of of 2025 is just more the same it is essentially a codification of Trump's various executive orders to give his political appointees sharpened tools to exact Swift Justice on
▶ 0:28:22on VA employees for perceived disloyalty or insubordination they want to make it as easy as possible to fire VA employees without cause that's it's that simple restore is opposed to as as opposed by nearly every major labor union VA has testified time and time again that they do not need the authorities and restore to hold employees accountable for misconduct nor will restore speed up the the disciplinary process contrary to what my colleagues
▶ 0:28:53believe Hampton Lolinda Eastern Colorado Buffalo and now an arbor all present issues that warrant our attention so that we can help VA improve patient safety and Veteran satis dissatisfaction veteran satisfaction at those facilities but let me be absolutely clear the restore VA accountability act will not fix those issues the restore Act is not going to hire more people to process referrals it is not going to bring in more qualified executive leadership it is not going to improve patient outcomes what
▶ 0:29:23restore will be is an empty promise to Veterans and a tool used to harm the the federal employees that serve them I know that ranking member Ramirez and I are committed to work to ensure VA is an accountable organization that holds its employees to the highest standards for our veterans so let's come back together and explore opportunities for bipartisanship and I yield back thank you and and before the chair introduces as the witness from our first panel I just think there's a time and place for partisan
▶ 0:29:53politics and I really wish it wasn't in this committee I think it's really important for us to continue to focus on the issues at hand rooting out misconduct and ensuring the Vaas effectively holds those accountable who allow it should and that should not be partisan I've said it before and I will say it again partisan games have no place when veterans care is on the line with that I'd like to recognize the Witnesses on our first panel testifying before us today we have Mr Ted radway the acting assistant Secretary of the office of accountability and whistleblower protection
▶ 0:30:24we have Miss Tracy thit the chief human capital officer office of human resources and administration security and preparedness we have Dr Mark Upton Deputy to the deputy under secretary for health Veteran affair Health Administration and we have doc Mr David case the acting Inspector General of the Inspector General we also have with us Mr Donald Sherman executive director and chief Council of citizens for responsibility and ethics in Washington and if the witnesses could please stand and raise the right hand and we will
▶ 0:30:54swear you in do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to provide is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you you may be seated let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative Mr radway you are now recognized for five minutes to provide testimony good afternoon chairwoman kiggins ranking member amirz ranking member Tano distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for inviting us today to discuss the va's efforts to improve accountability within the
▶ 0:31:25department joining me is Miss Tracy theret Chief Human Capital officer in va's office of human resources and administration operation security and preparedness and Dr Mark Upton Deputy to the deputy under secretary for health VA is committed to providing veterans with the care and benefits they have earned through service to our country our veterans and their families caregivers and survivors deserve nothing less we and the more than 450,000 VA employees are devoted to the sacred Duty and work diligently daily to fulfill this Mission sometimes
▶ 0:31:55even with the best intentions VA recognizes that the performance and action of some employees and leaders fall short of expectations and what our veterans deserve when that happens holding employees accountable is integral to effective management and we take that responsibility seriously in today's hearing we welcome the opportunity to discuss our improvements to strengthen our accountability the office of accountability and whistleblower protection promotes and improves individual and organizational accountability across VA in numerous ways first we investigate allegations against senior
▶ 0:32:25leaders involving misconduct and poor performance and allegations against all supervisors involving retaliation against whistleblowers our highly skilled professional investigators and analysts work hand inand with our attorneys who ensure that investigations are properly scoped within our jurisdiction all relevant issues and potential misconduct are identified and the conclusions of recommendations are legally supportable and appropriate we issue reports with recommendations for disciplinary actions but we do not carry out those actions instead our report is issued to the appropriate management
▶ 0:32:55official with authority to propose and carry out those actions if our recommendations are not taken we report that along with the deciding officials reasoning to Congress oawp employees have led a remarkable turnaround in productivity success and impact on individual accountability from fiscal 21 to 24 the number of incoming complaints increased by over 60 60% to 3,35 complaints this shows VA employees trust in wwp's ability to resolve complaints fairly and efficiently despite the rapid increase in case
▶ 0:33:26volume wwp's efforts have dramatically reduce the time it takes to close a case from fiscal 21 to 24 we reduce the time it takes to close a complex Case by over 75% in addition we've seen a jump and acceptance by management of our recommendations in fiscal 21 management took some action or the employee retired or resigned in only 64% of our disciplinary recommendations in fiscal 23 that number jumped to 100% And in fiscal 24 we doubled the number of recommendations we issued and management took some action or the employee
▶ 0:33:56retired or resigned in all but three cases or 92% we also issue non-disciplinary recommendations for relief of The Whistleblower training or policy modifications management regularly takes these recommendations between 96 and 100% of the time oawp also drives organizational accountability by Statute we provide advice reports and recommendations to the secretary on all matters relating to accountability in the past two years this included providing the secretary with eight reports on the va's efforts to support veterans with military sexual trauma
▶ 0:34:26half of the 32 Rec recommendations have been implemented to date driving greater organizational accountability and a better experience for our veterans with MST oawp also launches climate reviews that give leadership insight into the Whistleblower reporting environment and make recommendations to improve the report reporting culture to drive greater accountability at whistleblower protection in 2019 VHA began a transformational modernization the transformation into a high reliability organization or hro was Central to this effort and hro is an organization
▶ 0:34:57that experiences fewer than anticipated accidents or events of harm despite operating in highly complex high-risk environments or even small errors can lead to tragic results the department empowers all staff to lead continuous process improvements and we strive to create an environment where employees feel safe to report harm or near misses we are committed to continuing to build on the great strides we made in improving safety and quality of care as VHA advances towards hro maturity leaders are applying an organization-wide commitment to zero harm by developing an even stronger safety culture featur
▶ 0:35:27ing empowered Frontline teams supported by engaged leadership within a climate of trust and continuous Improvement the Office of Medical inspector is responsible for assessing the quality of VA Healthcare through investigations of va facilities Omi issues comprehensive reports of its Healthcare investigations including recommendations for corrective action and are improvements to the quality of veterans Healthcare while it does make referrals to oawp Omi generally does not make specific recommendations related to discipline instead it focuses on oversight and Improvement of veterans Healthcare
▶ 0:35:58VA is proud of its large dedicated Workforce who work hard to carry out va's great Mission every day the department is committed to and engages in continuous Improvement of accountability to assess how to help identify and affect cultural improvements within the VA hold employees accountable and continue to work to protect whistleblowers thank you and we look forward to responding to any questions you may have thank you Mr radway Mr case you are now recognized for five minutes to provide your testimony thank you chairwoman kiggins ranking member Ramirez and members
▶ 0:36:28of the subcommittee I appreciate this opportunity to discuss how the office of Inspector General's work enhances va's accountability the oig shares your goal of putting veterans first and we do that by conducting effective independent oversight of va so it can better serve veterans their families survivors and caregivers in fiscal year 2024 our office released more than 300 oversight Publications with over 1100 recommendations to VA we made nearly 250
▶ 0:36:58arrests and secured 179 convictions we had a monetary impact of more than 6.5 billion in addition to the invaluable work of our healthc care inspectors who enhance patient care and safety these efforts to improve benefits and services for veterans and their families would not be possible without the funding and support we received from Congress the engagement of Vos and other stakeholders has also been crucial to our success in addition we have a strong collaborative relationship with
▶ 0:37:28GAO and we coordinate our efforts with them to promote more consequential oversight in my written testimony I lay out the five principles that the oig has determined are foundational to accountability and provide examples of each first there must be strong governance and Clarity of roles and responsibilities we have found tension between the VA office with policy and oversight functions and the leaders in the field who are not accountable to those offices in other cases staff do not fully
▶ 0:37:59understand their roles and responsibilities do impart to outdated or conflicting guidance several of our Healthcare inspections identified facilities where leaders did not act on known issues resulting in greater risk to patients or delays in veterans receiving care second there must be adequate and qualified staff to carry out clear duties VA faces staff vacancies and key occupations especially within VHA these long-standing shortages make it challenging for VA to carry
▶ 0:38:29out some programs and functions when implementing new programs staff often must navigate rapidly changing guidance for processing VA benefits the resulting confusion can affect the amount of money and services veterans receive third VA needs updated it system and effective business processes VA is modernizing significant systems critical to its operations we've been proactively overseeing V's implementation of these including publishing 22
▶ 0:38:59reports on the transformation of va's electronic health record system alone our work is identified poor planning billions of dollars in unanticipated costs patient safety issues low user acceptance and gaps and functionalities making it difficult for personnel to efficiently do their jobs fourth effective quality assurance and monitoring is essential VA often lacks controls to consistently ensure quality standards are met breakdowns in routine monitoring and workarounds
▶ 0:39:29undermine efforts to identify and fix problems as well as make certain the eligible veterans and their families receive timely services and benefits and last consistent and effective leadership is critical engaged in dedicated leadership Fosters open communication efficiency and accountability among all staff these five themes are routinely highlighted in oig reports although report findings and recommendations are often directed to a single facility system or program
▶ 0:40:00they serve as a road map to help prevent or correct similar problems in other facilities or offices we recognize that VA is working to build a stronger sense of accountability we routinely observe Personnel committed to providing the highest quality care benefits and services to Veterans and their families despite obstacles the oig will continue to provide practical and meaningful recommendations to help VA remove these obstacles to serve veterans first and address fraud and other crimes
▶ 0:40:31as well as waste and improve efficiency finally I want to thank Congress for passing the Elizabeth Dole act which includes a requirement that all new VA employees receive training on how to report and cooperate with the oig chairwoman kiggins and members of the subcommittee this concludes my statement I look forward to answering any questions you may have thank you Mr casee and Mr Sherman you are now recognized for five minutes to provide your testimony chairwoman
▶ 0:41:01kiggins ranking member Ramirez and members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today the Department of Veterans Affairs mission to provide for the care benefits and support of veterans is the Fulfillment of a promise that our nation made and must continue to honor to those who have protected our nation in the armed services my own family includes veterans who served in combat and my grandfather proudly worked at the VA in his hometown of Tuskegee
▶ 0:41:31Alabama I thank our nation's veterans and military families for their service and sacrifice for our country in order to meet its critical mandate the VA plays many roles including administering pensions insurance and home loans for veterans providing Survivor support for veterans families and running the veterans Health Administration the largest integrated Healthcare Network in the United States the VA cannot falter in this Mission yet managing
▶ 0:42:01such complex systems is a daunting task the VA has experienced challenges across both Democratic and Republican administrations that demand robust independent oversight it is certainly reasonable to Look Backwards at the Biden administration's stewardship of the VA and acknowledge areas of success and challenge that's why it would have been useful to have former vaig Michael Mell in attendance here today during his tenure Mr Mile's leadership of oig garnered bipartisan praise
▶ 0:42:32and he released numerous reports critical of va officials during both president Trump's and President Biden's terms in office in 2024 alone IG missiles team published more than 300 reports with over 1100 recommendations to help the VA improve the lives of veterans with a monetary impact on at least $6 billion in taxpayer funds under Mr Mile's leadership voi pushed the agency to address deficiencies in its assessment of suicide risk
▶ 0:43:02healthc care failures at facilities like the Hampton VA Medical Center as well as long-standing management challenges despite that staggering impact president Trump fired Mr missile last month along with more than a dozen other inspectors General that is not normal in fact these firings were illegal provisions of the bipartisan securing Inspector General Independence Act require the president to provide congress with 30 days notice and an explanation before firing
▶ 0:43:32an IG president Trump did nether although it is beyond my expertise to opine on va's Mission specific operations independent oversight is essential for the agency to better support our nation's veterans president Trump's firing of IGS including Mr missile was unethical and our veterans will be among the many communities harmed as a result of these other authoritarian actions these attacks include president Trump's gutting of the nonpartisan
▶ 0:44:03Civil Service veterans make up roughly 6% of the American working AE population but nearly a third of the federal Workforce so efforts to fire suspend and demote civil servants across agencies disproportionately impacts veterans president Trump's hiring freeze on many components of the VA likewise undermines the agency's work to meet the needs of veterans and military families in January my organization filed a lawsuit to
▶ 0:44:33force president Trump's billionaire Le Doge to stop operating in the shadows and to the exclusion of veterans and other stakeholders the Administration has also terminated programs aimed at meeting the unique experiences of veterans having an independent permanent IG here today would be valuable to assess the impact of these policies and Pine on reforms that this committee is interested in pursuing that's why crew is pressed for IG vacancies
▶ 0:45:03to be filled and for independent oversight under both presidents Trump and Biden the vaig vacancy is especially concerning given the corruption scandals at VA during the first Trump Administration including president Trump allowing cronies to help run the agency from maral laga oig's investigation of secretary schulin lavish taxpayer taxpayer funded travel helped to lead to his removal in 2018 in closing
▶ 0:45:34president Trump's ouster of Mr Mell suggests that even his successor could fi could be fired on a political whim that fact does nothing to help the VA better serve veterans and military families address the long-standing challenges the VA has faced across administrations or prevent the corruption that plagued the VA during the first Trump term if this committee is serious about oversight of the VA then I would expect members of both parties to vocally
▶ 0:46:04oppose president Trump's illegal attack on ig's and the civil service thank you I welcome your questions thank you Mr Sherman we will now move to questions and I yield myself minutes and just before that in accordance with committee rule 5e I ask unanimous consent that representative moand from Guam be permitted to participate in today's subcommittee hearing without objection so ordered Mr Case the VA Inspector General has published three different reports about
▶ 0:46:34concerns with the clinical care veterans receive at the Hampton VA in my district each report highlights the importance of having quality assurance processes in place if these are not in place patients bear the consequences can you tell me your opinion about why it's important for leaders to have quality measures in place for patient care and can you also give us some examples of these quality measures chairwoman kiggins uh we have published those reports and the whole goal is to put the veteran first there quality
▶ 0:47:04assurance and important quality measures have to be in place adherence to Define processes and objective assessments of basic patient safety activities is critical leaders must be proactive in monitoring compliance and tracking and trending compliance so that with these foundational requirements they then have to intervene modify or enhance resources in real time to keep patients safe if they see problems and there's constant monitoring
▶ 0:47:35example and the best example is from uh Hampton is there were ineffective monitoring of the processes to address substandard Care by a surgeon and by doing that you allow a surgeon to stay in place who uh is believed to be not operating at the highest level or even at an acceptable level and so by monitoring those processes paying attention demanding accountability you ensure safety and uh patient
▶ 0:48:06safety so the IG also published a report that showed severe mismanagement in veterans oncology care resulting in serious delays which is unacceptable uh so how can leaders be proactive in their oversight and involvement in patient care and you talked about you know Hands-On and and uh just managing that care but can you give me specific examples is this reviewing charts as this uh you know periodic reviews with small groups just a little more specific yes as a general matter trust
▶ 0:48:36is critical between leaders and staff H but verification of performance and adherence to policy and standards is absolutely necessary the stakes are too high and the data is too readily available to assume patients are getting the care they need especially those at high risk and the best example that comes to mind is in Buffalo where there was theist uh the chief of oncology the staff oncologist were demanding that a patient
▶ 0:49:06get an appointment scheduled in the community the response from others was we're taking care of it we'll get it done but it wasn't in getting done and so and that's an instance where you not you can trust but you have to verify you have to intervene and make sure that that patient is getting the care he needs especially coming upon facility management staff oncologist and the oncologist which takes Manpower and then also people who are who are very
▶ 0:49:36thorough and attention and Detail in doing those parts of of followup for their jobs which I can appreciate thank you Mr case and Mr radway from your experience in the last four years what has oawp identified as repeat areas of concern across the VA and patient care focused on patient care issues per se we really look more at at misconduct um we have seen several cases where there was a failure to oversee
▶ 0:50:07providers who were alleged to have committed misconduct in terms of patient care and improperly treated patients um and then we'll look at the the activities of those senior leaders who fail to oversee their providers their Chiefs of surgery things like that and the office and radway again the Office of Medical inspector is responsible for assessing va's quality of care how do the recommendations made in the Omi reports work to mitigate repeated errors in the care provided in
▶ 0:50:37VA thank Dr Upton do you want to sure I'd be happy to take that Madam chairwoman so the uh Omi recommendations come to both the leaders of the facilities as well as to our senior leaders in VHA and they as was mentioned earlier look at important quality and safety issues within our system often charged by the under secretary for health or others and we the Omi specifically makes sure that those recommendations are followed through and we take them very seriously as part of our commitment to Quality so you you follow up at each facility
▶ 0:51:07individually is that we review them as As Leaders as a senior leadership team and they also work with each facility because many of these are very facility specific but we certainly try to take lessons learned across the system as well very good you let's see and then we will now I want to we will now move to questions from the ranking uh ranking members so ranking member Ramirez you recognized for five minutes thank you chairwoman I want to just thank all of you for being here again and I really appreciate
▶ 0:51:37your testimonies and having an opportunity to read through them I want to do a little quick level setting exercise with some of the witnesses here today uh because we're I know a little bit on a time crunch but I want to go down the row um with three of you and ask you each to answer a question Miss in your work do you put a veterans or VA first uh congresswoman Ramirez yes veterans first Mr rataway in your work do you put veterans or VA first veterans
▶ 0:52:08Dr Upton you're a provider who cares for veterans do you put veterans first or VA veterans first every time thank you I want to make sure that the record shows that it's Crystal Clear that these public servants before us put veterans first and I believe them we relied on each of you during the last four years to Ure sure the VA continued its journey to becoming an accountable institution that prioritizes patient safety and I want just want to thank you for your service now miss theed I appreciated va's testimony that
▶ 0:52:38you provided regarding actions taken to hold employees accountable for Miss conduct I going to ask you a couple follow-up questions how frequently does the VA use its Authority Under Title 5 to remove employees congresswoman mirez last fiscal year we used our Authority Under Title 5 and the accountability act because we use both of the authorities we use 713 in the accountability act for our senior leaders and the chapter 43 and chapter 75 authorities in Title 5 there were
▶ 0:53:08over 5,000 actions that we took to remove to suspend or to demote employees who engaged in poor performance or misconduct that number mirrors about the same number that were taken the first year after the accountability Act was pass so pretty frequently and how how recently have you use Title 5 Authority when was the last time we use the authorities that we have on a daily basis got it I'm looking at a chart right now uh that compares year over-year the total
▶ 0:53:39number of adverse actions taken by the VA and it says that in F uh for year 2024 there were 5,875 adverse actions you just mentioned that in year 2024 the VA would have been using Title 5 authorities for adverse actions as you mentioned correct so just to follow up the chart says that in 2018 19 20 21 and 22 the VA had 4,673
▶ 0:54:09and 468 adverse actions respectively during that period which Authority or authorities for adverse actions would the VA have been using so prior to fiscal year 2023 we were using a combination of accountability act uh chapter 7 13 and 714 authorities in addition to our Title Five authorities I would say that we are always using all of our authorities whether under title 38 or Title 5 to ensure our title 38 and our Title 5
▶ 0:54:39Workforce are being held accountable got it so VA uses Title 5 at the same or higher rates for adverse actions than they did with the authorities in the 2017 accountability law correct correct we have a track record of uh legally defensible actions under Title 5 because they've been before the Merit system systems protection board they've been before third parties so anytime we take an action we want to make sure that that employee does not come back if we remove them if they're suspended that suspension is upheld so we try and look at the case law to make
▶ 0:55:09sure that the actions that we are taking are legally defensible and that we won't have to reinstate Bad actors who shouldn't be at the VA serving veterans now that's sound efficient miss sett my understanding is that you sit on councel with other agency Chief human capital officers is that correct yes yes ma'am all right so I have another followup are there other federal agencies that also employ Physicians nurses and housekeepers like the VA there are the Department of Health and Human Services the department of so let me ask you I have a couple minut a couple seconds left here do
▶ 0:55:39those do those agencies also use Title 5 to discipline employees they do yeah Miss DED can you describe an instance when you could not remove an employee under Title 5 if there are instances when a employee can't be removed under Title 5 or title it is typically as Mr radway alluded to because of a lack of evidence you know an inability to support the level of discipline that's being proposed so rarely is it the authority that is limiting it as opposed to the
▶ 0:56:09substance of the investigation or the prior conduct or performance of that individual thank you Miss terret just a quick question to Mr Sherman thank you for being here again how would you describe the first 20 days of the Trump second Administration in the last 10 seconds uh hard I know Lawless evasive chaotic um you know I think if the president was serious about oversight of the VA in particular um he wouldn't have fired the IG and he wouldn't have sent uh minions from Doge to
▶ 0:56:40uh thank you Mr Sherman I yield back uh thank you and I recognize myself for five minutes first of all I want to thank you for being here I want to assure you that you are not stage props the hysteria and the hyperbole that you have heard today will not stop this committee from oversight
▶ 0:57:11which is our um Mr casee your testimony particularly your written testimony is pretty damning I'll just quote a few few uh sentences from it accountability components of accountability identified by the oig are often lacking within VA programs and operations and you listed the five gave a very detailed
▶ 0:57:41the oig regularly identifies instances of misconduct broken systems confusing and conflicting governing policies or guidance and inefficiencies or missteps in implementing programs further you say misconduct failures to take appropriate action persistent problems are often the result of va Personnel or contractors not understanding their roles or responsibilities in other cases they understand their duties simply do not or cannot fulfill them this may be due in part to outdated policies and procedures conflicting guidance lack of clear
▶ 0:58:11decision making often at the best Often by those best positioned to act uh lacking the authority to do so and you go on everything that I just read is a issue um I will tell you you that during my first term in Congress on this committee uh we spent an inordinate amount of time on countless scandals throughout the VA normally at the leadership level in the past two years
▶ 0:58:41under the Biden Administration we've been uh made aware of many cases not executing their jobs employees not executing their jobs this subcommittee sent over 80 letters 80 letters to try to uncover why is I can only compare it to a dumpster fire in a windstorm if you think if you think it can't get any worse it blows up again so Mr casee I want to go to you first
▶ 0:59:12have you found visen directors exercise inconsistent oversight and this is leading to another question leading to Major disparities in quality of care and Leadership across the Visions we have found disparity and oversight by Vision directors largely attributable we see often in fact they don't have clear definitions of what their responsibilities are and what their duties are
▶ 0:59:42and this isn't just Vision directors it goes to all leadership uh mental health uh directors at the uh Vis level so we have found that and uh and once the respon responsibilities and Duties are clarified then I think they'll be in a position to move forward um do you attribute this to lack of leadership at the VA leadership level the secretary administrative level or is it they have too much
▶ 1:00:12autonomy at the visen director level again leading to another question yes uh how the VA got itself in the situation is probably a long story uh the level of autonomy granted but autonomy can work if there's standardization of Duties at the highest level at the vision level and those Duties are clear but as it exists right now there is not that Clarity for vision leaders to act on their uh duties okay
▶ 1:00:43let me go to the EHR because and I realize it probably is not in the core mission of this this hearing but is it not true from the oig perspective that we can't get to a clear EHR solution because the customization at the vision level is that a true statement or not that could be part of it and it is probably part of it there are many reasons though why EHR is in the state it's in at the present and the ethics violations we covered oh
▶ 1:01:13probably all the way from sexual to bonuses uh those those scandals that I referred to to what would you owe that yes I owe that it depends on the the instance that we're trying to address sometimes it's personal malfeasance it boils down to that other times malfeasance is allowed to go on uh it just varies and it's individualized and so that's why our reports are very specific and focused Anda okay in the last
▶ 1:01:43couple of seconds Mr radway do you track instances where Vision leadership intervenes uh no do you identify cases where interference allows people to be transferred as opposed to held quickly we don't track whether people are transferred we just track whether the vision leaders if they're the deciding official implement the recommendation for discipline or not okay thank you I I yield back and recognize Mr
▶ 1:02:15Conway thank you uh Dr Conway I apologize well thank you for that I I I appreciate that um thank you Mr Mr chairman uh thank you uh lady and gentlemen for presenting yourself to us today and and uh hopefully uh we uh working together uh can bring about the necessary improvements to ensure that the VA meets uh the demands of the American people and certainly desires or our veteran Community uh to receive a First Rate
▶ 1:02:46service at the uh uh at the VA uh I would like to follow up however on a question that was just raised about ethics and to raise a concern about uh president's um actions upon um uh in office with respect to uh EOS and my notes say here that uh among the um recisions that the president made uh changed
▶ 1:03:16the ethics commitments by executive branch Personnel uh and and others uh with respect to gifts uh and the like have um any recent changes in the administration impacted uh the uh ethics rules U governing uh the highest reaches in the VA that's either for Mr case or Mr Sherman I'll I'll help out that way
▶ 1:03:46um well I think when President Trump came in he res sended the ethics pledge for uh for appointees in uh in the government um and significantly weakened those rules making it easier for uh appointees to accept gifts and and uh and and to move back and forth between the private sector and the public sector and so certainly I would be concerned about conflicts of interests uh you know undermining
▶ 1:04:16the efficacy of uh of service that the American people including our veterans get from their government and from the IG perspective perspective we will look at issues that are raised to us and we will uh investigate those and do reports if uh we do investigate those but we don't address broad policy issues and we don't address on a significant way uh what is the result of those policy issues until we
▶ 1:04:46have specific requests to go and look at specific instances that's basically our people meeting standards that's how we operate in doing our reports well thank you for that and I just have to say that these ethics rules are intended to ensure uh that the vendors who work for the VA or your you know public money is being spent there and if someone's getting gifts or not behaving uh appropriately with respect to the awarding of contracts on seeing those because of gifts uh then we're going to see you know a waste
▶ 1:05:16uh and we're going to see as we've seen unfortunately throughout the VA uh serious problems with implementing um the um systems for everything for for getting appointments the EMR which is just mentioned uh and many other things in the reports that we've gotten that that have looked at cost overruns and the uh inability to get uh these critical systems implemented and and um uh and online um Mr radway
▶ 1:05:47again thank you for being here can you described how the oawp improved the quality of investigative work uh over the last uh uh four years during the Biden Harris Administration and and um have improvements been made not been made we noted here that there are a number of Investigations under the current authorities that U have led to more than 5,000 people being removed from their job for um various infractions uh can you describe uh the um
▶ 1:06:17how the uh oap uh oawp process has worked with respect to quality of Investigations sure Congressman a lot of it has to do with hiring the right people hired skilled 1810 uh administrative investigators um who many of whom are uh retired military or retired law enforcement and are on their second career um we instituted standard operating procedures based on the Council of inspectors general of integrity and efficiency investigative standards
▶ 1:06:47and we model those standards for our investigation we've given our folks training and we establish the investigative attorneys division which ensures that our reports are legally sufficient and our recommendations are supportable uh again I don't know how much time I have but Mr Sherman um can you talk about the um um regarding the reinstatement of schedule F by the current Administration how will this executive order create a VA that is more prone to corruption versus one that prioritizes
▶ 1:07:18accountability and the well-being and care of veterans well certainly weakening uh Civil Service protections makes it it easier to fire uh government workers nonpartisan government workers uh when they report misconduct by the uh political leadership of the agency uh it makes it less likely that people will uh will report with misconduct and it makes it more likely that uh the civil service is subject to partisan pressure which is exactly
▶ 1:07:49uh what we don't want our veterans to experience when they come to the government for help well uh with the time I have a just uh just want to say that um we need a professionalized civil service uh um and not people who are amateurs coming in there on political appointments that are not uh accountable to their mission but rather uh to the appointing authority um thank you Mr chairman I recognize Mr sisani thank you Mr chairman uh our ultimate Duty here on the committee
▶ 1:08:19is to ensure veterans come first and not senior executive bureaucrats it's one one one thing to be able to say that and then another to act on that Arizona is sadly the epicenter of what can go wrong when oversight is not taken seriously as we saw in 2014 it was referred to that earlier today as well while we seek to ensure the VA is effective we also have worked to create great public private and vsso partnership
▶ 1:08:50programs to fill the void in the community in Arizona as a result of of what happened one example is the bconnected program that for years has partnered with VA to ensure veterans are able to access the resources and benefits they have earned while ensuring these Partnerships continue I want to make sure recent events in Arizona such as a veteran passing away in the parking lot of the Phoenix Medical Center or a improperly administrating care to Veterans cease to
▶ 1:09:21occur now when when we M Mr Mr radway and Mr Case uh this this will be going to you and the issue and the topic of uh the senior executive uh staff uh improper bonus pay so last Congress it was uh discovered um and in this area I would like you to please provide some insight as well as giving into the um oig's work last Congress it was discovered sces pay bonuses were paid
▶ 1:09:51despite the purpose of these dollars being allocated for Frontline healthc care workers who are day in and day out serving our veterans what is the VA doing to one regain trust two ensure this doesn't happen again and three how do you plan to continue oversight work with the new Administration given its presidential memo regarding additional accountability for sces employees
▶ 1:10:21so Congressman in response to the IG report on critical skills and incentives or csis uh our office was tasked with conducting an investigation into that episode issued 165 page report to the secretary with recommendations for disciplinary and non-disciplinary action including uh policies and procedures that would prevent that from reoccurring most of our recommendations to date have been implemented um and we have not seen any issues of um reoccurrence brought to
▶ 1:10:51our attention but if they were we would certainly investigate those um as appropriate we have received the response to our recommendations asking that they've been closed uh from the VA came on January 10th uh the closure of recommendations and whether the VA has meant the action plans they have put forward is not a binary process it's not a yes or no process oftentimes it requires a discussion with
▶ 1:11:21VA as to what they've done have they done enough uh and see what their response is so we are analyzing those right now from our perspective I think some of those can probably be closed but I think others are going to require this ongoing discussion as to what's been done and is it sufficient to meet the action plan of the recommendations what about my last part of the question regarding the new Administration giving the the presidential memo regarding
▶ 1:11:51additional accountability for sces employees how how does that play into what you just explained yes so when we do our work we hold VA to standards and those standards could include legislation uh regulation VA policies clinical policies whatever it is that we're trying to investigate we hold them to standards and if they come up short on those standards then that will be part of our report our findings and we'll make recommendations
▶ 1:12:22and then follow up to see if the action are implemented in the way that meets those recommendations so this would be part of that process sir um running out of time here but just moving on one of the major concerns is the number of times I've seen individuals resign while under investigation as well and an attempt to avoid accountability to their actions uh or for actions of those they oversee as well that happened repeatedly it was mentioned by chairman in terms of how many of those we saw
▶ 1:12:52in this committee so how how does this imp accountability and the investigation processes so it it does happen sir it doesn't impact the investigation itself we'll continue and close out our investigation um but I'm going to defer to miss thet to to speak about the consequences of that so Congressman cisman two things that I would offer one is we do have Authority Under 5 USC 3322 to annotate Personnel records when someone resigns
▶ 1:13:22under an investigation I will tell you that that Authority is very limited to certain circumstances and we can't use it broadly so I know at later this month we have a legislative hearing and we're looking forward to sharing some views that we have on more things that we can do to improve accountability at the VA I'm interested in participating and helping any way on that Mr chairman I think that whenever someone um saves themselves from any consequences by resigning that's an accountability problem so thank you
▶ 1:13:53Mr Kennedy thank you uh thank you all for your testimony thanks for your service to our great country Dr Upton I understand that you've been involved in improving the care and the community program of the Buffalo VA Medical Center are you fully read into the oig report and what was found in that report and what's been recommended for the Buffalo VA Medical Center in the fall thank you Congressman um as a healthc care provider myself as was mentioned earlier as well as someone that
▶ 1:14:23works we need to make sure when veterans are referred for care that it happens timely and in a high quality way and certainly that was the challenge you know the significant concern we heard in Buffalo and I will say when that concern came to us our under secretary for health uh very swiftly pulled a team of experts together from various disciplines to go to Buffalo directly as as you know sir and uh really look at all aspects of the issue there from process to education to Staffing
▶ 1:14:54to insurance ing the right reviews are occurring of leadership as well and so so you are familiar I'm very familiar yes excellent well thank you and the under secretary came up at my um invitation and we had a very productive meeting with the leadership of the staff at that hospital um and one of the issues that came up was the lack of Staffing and uh through what you've read in the oig report and in order to achieve the oig recommendations
▶ 1:15:25do you believe that it's important that the staff is hired to a level that's uh necessary to provide the service to our veterans I do Congressman um the VA is currently under a hiring freeze is it not we are complying with the you know orders from uh the administration but we have received a number of exceptions for important critical roles within the healthcare delivery system so what is the VA doing to get
▶ 1:15:55more hires at the Buffalo VA specifically to help the veterans get the care that they need I know that the current leadership at the Buffalo VA as well as the visen are taking that very seriously and I'd be happy to follow up with you directly Congressman on the specific hiring and various key areas there well it's it's important that the hiring is up to a level that the hospital and the system functions when the uh fork in the road email went out
▶ 1:16:26there was a department of va uh memo that stated that there were approximately 1900 plus jobs that were rescinded and 716 job postings that were removed from USA Jobs those are positions that are effectively providing service to our veterans are not we are absolutely committed to hiring all the key positions we need congressmen and
▶ 1:16:56uh we're able to repost a large number of those I understand what you're saying but I'd like to know precisely how Buffalo and buffalo VA is indicative of what's happening around the country there is a hiring freeze in place and what we're hearing not only in my district but across the country is that there are individuals that are being put on performance Improvement plans there are people that are on probation that are being cut um without explanation
▶ 1:17:26um and are those positions being hired because it sounds to me and others that we're hearing from again my constituents that were blowing a hole in the Staffing levels at not only the Buffalo VA and the Buffalo Network VA network uh but across the country can you speak to that I will say that we are absolutely committed to hiring key staff and I agree with you Congressman it is so important that we bring the staff in to serve veterans and the specifics of Buffalo and the network I be happy to follow up with you with but I
▶ 1:17:56certainly understand your concern how can we be confident that the VA Network across the country is being staffed appropriately when in fact there have been jobs that have been rescinded offers that have been rescinded and postings that have been removed and thousands of jobs in and uh you know there are reports of individuals again being put on um performance Improvement plans
▶ 1:18:27that ultimately we know is the first step toward termination and individuals that are currently in a probationary hiring period that are being terminated without cause I will say we stay are going to stay laser focused as a health administration to hire all the employees that we can and follow all accordant directives and guidance but we're laser focused on bringing the critical healthcare workers we need Congressman I'd like you to please uh Prov Prov in writing to this committee this subcommittee
▶ 1:18:58um a hiring um chart of exactly what's happening where the hirings are where the Staffing levels are open um and all of which have uh transpired since the fork in the road memo went out I yield back thank you Mr Morin thank you chairman S A ranking member Ramirez I would like to thank the subcommittee for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the veterans of Guan who have been some of the most dedicated and selfless members of our nation's
▶ 1:19:28armed forces now despite Guam having the highest enlistment rate per capita in the United States and one of the highest concentrations of veterans our island has consistently been left behind when it comes to access to resources and benefits they deserve from the VA under the previous administration so there's an ongoing discrepancy between the number of vet V reported by the government of Guam and those recognized by the
▶ 1:19:58VA this is likely due to the va's Reliance on a number of veterans registered without considering the need for increased Outreach and support to those who have not been connected to the system we know that our veterans and Guam has sacrificed so much in service to this nation it is our responsibility to ensure that they are not left behind simply because they live in geographically isolated territory
▶ 1:20:29the failure of the VA to provide adequate Staffing oversight and resources for Guam's veterans under the administration is a situation that demands immediate correction today's hearing is crucial step in ensuring that the brave men and women of Guam who have served our country and are no longer that are no neglected we must take action to provide the the support and services they have earned for my
▶ 1:20:59first question Dr Upton Guam currently falls under the VA Pacific Islands healthc care system which Services the largest geographic region in the country how does VHA determine resources allocations for its facilities in the territories which face unique challenges in accessing Federal resources and services thank you congressman and uh I want to Echo how important
▶ 1:21:29it is that we serve the veterans of Guam and appreciate their service um as you mentioned Guam is part of that particular visen Network and we look at the veteran population the services they need the location of various facilities as well as in VA and in the community and I would be happy Congressman to sit down with you and that Vision leadership to talk about the needs in Guam from a healthcare perspective I know that you know it sounds like we can do better and they need support and I'd be happy to work with you thank you
▶ 1:22:00from next question let me uh for Mr rway how much oversight exist when issues arise in Guam and the other territories how often are visits conducted and how does the VA address matters so I can only speak to oversight of the senior leaders um I don't have numbers for you on how many investigations we've had in Guam I can
▶ 1:22:30certainly get those numbers for you Congressman um but if we receive invest if we receive allegations we would treat those just the same and investigate them just as we would any other Vision or facility all right thank you and last question Miss turret a consistent issue brought forth by my constituents is how does the VA decide where Staffing is needed and how is the annual review conducted to determine if staffing needs to be
▶ 1:23:02increased Congressman moand thank you for that question in terms of the Staffing Resources and models that the veterans Health Administration uses those are assessed on an ongoing basis we publish data on a recurring basis on a monthly basis we publish a public facing report that looks at Staffing levels and then on a quarterly basis we report uh on the mission act 505 section with respect to our vacancies and our staffing levels uh where those Staffing levels need to be adjusted I think as Dr Upton mentioned
▶ 1:23:32that local leadership will work with their Vision leadership to make sure that they're getting the resources and the budget and the allocations that they need to ensure that the services are being provided in a timely and high quality manner so those assessments are ongoing if there are any circumstances that you want to discuss specifically in your area glad to take a closer look at that with the team appreciate your time and you're all coming and testifying before the subcommittee thank you very much Mr chairman thank you uh thank you I want to thank the witnesses
▶ 1:24:02for coming today for your cander for your willingness to come and to the VA for providing the witnesses the expert that they have uh we need to ensure the VA has good governance veterans are getting the quality care that they deserve and they've earned to to quote uh several members from this side absolutely that's imperative that starts with ensuring that all employees are are held accountable leadership matters restoring
▶ 1:24:32accountability remains a top priority of this committee and I'm speaking for the chairwoman we all look forward to continuing to ensure that VA remains committed to this goal we all look forward to the leadership of secretary Collins and uh I believe that we will see a dramatic difference uh ranking member Ramirez closing comments thank you chairman I I also want to Echo um the sentiments from the chairman now we're really incredibly thankful for you to be here today
▶ 1:25:03and this committee is going to be incredibly important over the next few weeks over the next few years we have to make sure that we use oversight and we use every Authority in and in our power to ensure that we put a veterans first that we ask hard questions that we make sure that in everything we do we're are centering veterans and their families for many years I got to shelter them I fed them I helped them find jobs it's the work that I've done from a very young age I know I look young but
▶ 1:25:33that was almost 20 years ago um so I want to say that as I'm thinking about and transitioning out of this hearing today I am concerned that at no point during this hearing today we mentioned on this side we certainly heard it from Mr Sherman but we didn't address the removal of the VA inspector enal Mike Mell and let me just say despite the fact that in this last Congress Republicans relied on his testimony 22 times
▶ 1:26:03let me repeat that Republicans relied on his testimony 22 times I've not heard anyone talk about his removal and it doesn't surprise me but it doesn't make it right I've said it once and I'll say it again accountability for members of Congress has to be one of our priorities and the president made it very clear when he removed over it doesn't qualifi inspector generals including the va's former Inspector General Mell from our own records we can agree that Mr Mile's work was apolitical he did his job and held
▶ 1:26:34the VA to standards that ensured veterans were treated with dignity and got the care they earned not once did my colleagues raised concerns or questions Mr Mile's Integrity as they relied on his testimony in fact they thanked him for his transparency they thanked him for his directness when discussing issues he and his staff uncovered at the VA yet now my Republican colleagues are silent following the marching orders for a group of people fixated on qualifications it seems like the only qualification that now matters is loyalty to the president
▶ 1:27:04or musk and let's be real here we can't have an honest conversation about accountability at the VA without addressing Mr missiles removal and it's why I want to make sure Mr Case um that you know and you hear this from me I'm deeply concerned about reports that Elan musk and his teenage intern team went in and who are not government employees at least I'm not aware that they are were at the VA central office earlier this week look I don't think they have legal authority to direct the people and the resources of the VA and they don't have authority to access the VA data
▶ 1:27:34this feels like an abuse of power so I am going to be officially requesting the Inspector General to initiate an investigation into this and report back to Congress as whether musk or his team were or are currently working at the VA who they're meeting with what is being discussed what veteran data is being assessed and whether that access is lawful that is the responsibility that we have here oversight and accountability so I look forward to working with you and Mr chairman I yield back uh thank you ranking member and thank everyone for
▶ 1:28:04being here in the audience included I ask unanimous consent that all members shall have five legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks and include any extraneous material hearing no objection so ordered this hearing is now adjourned all righty you beta you got
▶ 1:28:53that for