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▶ 0:11:39begin the subcommittee's first hearing of the 119th Congress like to introduce myself Derek van Orton I think I speak loud enough without that microphone just figured that out uh I'm a retired Navy SEAL Senior Chief I'm the longest serving enlisted member of the military to ever be elected to congress I've used every educational program that the Department of Defense offers including our uh our vr& and I use the GI bill to help educate my children um I get all my health
▶ 0:12:09care through the VA I love the VA I love the folks that give me my medical care welcome ma'am oh sorry um I love I love our healthc care providers I love the folks that have helped me get my education um and what I despise about the VA is the bureaucracy uh and we waste billions and billions of dollars um supporting the bureaucracy of the VA and is my intent to
▶ 0:12:39stop that every single dollar that is wastefully spent is one that doesn't go to a veteran either their Healthcare or their education or gold star families the benefits they have earned by sacrificing family and essentially this is ground Hog Day Mr Barrett chaired subcommittee yesterday it was a closed session so I won't describe it in detail but essentially what we've identified again is billions and billions and billions
▶ 0:13:10of dollars worth of waste that the VA is responsible for through either inadequate or no planning at all and um that's got to stop I would be remiss not to mention my uh great friend Mike who is uh no longer the ranking member he's moved on to Appropriations I don't know why You' want to go there but I'd like to welcome Mr papis um we had a great meeting in uh private discussing uh your priorities
▶ 0:13:40which would be veterans homelessness then we'll be going to a field hearing to your District um you haven't heard this yet but this is not a bipartisan committee this is a nonpartisan committee that that's we we started that Mike can had a great relationship and I expect the same I can't believe Morgan's back good to see him Mr Barrett ma'am it's so wonderful to have you here so uh I want to make sure that we follow through with some things that we started in 118th so from
▶ 0:14:11The Senator Elizabeth Dole 21st century veterans Healthcare and benefits Improvement act we're able to pass improvements to education benefits homelessness prevention uh homelessness prevention benefits you Sarah and reduce the red tape of the VA we'll hear from the VA today we have lotss more to do to this and uh I want to make sure that we are going to refocus the Veterans Affairs Administration on Veterans and not the Veterans Affairs Administration
▶ 0:14:42um we're going to talk about state of education services and the Department of Veterans Affairs since 2020 the number of employees at the education services at va's headquarters in in DC has nearly doubled growing from 102 to 185 in 2024 so I want to say it again the headquarters staff has nearly doubled but the actual budget has only increased uh by it went from $1.5 billion to 12.1 billion and that is a tremendous amount of money so if we're spending all
▶ 0:15:12this money and we're increasing the bureaucracy and not sending that to Veterans Benefits that is a problem so I swear to God this is like Groundhog Day I'm just going to bulleye some things here so that everybody understand stands for the record so we have seen this in this hearing room contract and oversight mistakes with the GI digital GI Bill to the tune of billions of dollars excuse me hundreds of millions of dollars VA bureaucrats going rogue with risk-based
▶ 0:15:42surveys leading to schools backing out from accepting the GI bill so the the antithesis of what the the VA is supposed to be doing they're actually chasing veterans away from getting educated an absolutely foolish interpretation of a Supreme Court case that will add nearly 10 billion to the deficit over the next decade and not anybody a v proposing rule to the federal registry using the wrong form causing schools to panic paperwork government employees reinterpreting Congressional law and kicking out religious schools
▶ 0:16:12from our GI Bill unacceptable former head of Education Services giving out his uh contact information to school certifying officials because they had so many Communications issues that needed to be solved and this the list just goes on and on and on and on on and on and it's going to stop like this is going to stop uh I'm very excited to have a new secretary of the Veterans Affairs uh
▶ 0:16:42Dennis was a friend of mine I think he was undermined and subverted by a lot of people sitting over here permanent bureaucrats I firmly believe that Dennis wanted to do what was right and his his his feet were were knocked out from underneath him by the permanent ruling class in Washington DC and those are not elected officials and it's going to stop and we're going to do everything we can to make sure that every single dollar that is allocated uh by this Congress goes to help a veteran not a bureaucrat
▶ 0:17:13and so help me God uh that is my sole intent and if I don't know how I could be more clear so um Mr papis that's how this is going to go and I I yield to the ranking member for any comments you may have sir well I I want to thank you um first for your uh Service uh in Congress but also to our great nation and just the
▶ 0:17:43Spirit by which you approach Your Role here as chair of this subcommittee I was on the subcommittee for my first two terms in Congress uh really pleased to be back and look forward to developing a good strong working relationship and continuing the work that you did with Mike Levan uh for the last couple years so I want to thank you for holding this session here today I think we can all agree that the GI bill is a landmark law and I look forward to the work that we will do today uh together uh to ensure that student veterans are provided the level of quality that they deserve
▶ 0:18:14um but I think we can't hold this hearing today without recognizing what's transpiring uh the uh pressures on federal programs and certainly on the federal Workforce as well dedicated people that meet the needs of veterans each and every day so I want to take a trip back to late 2024 the final two hearings uh of the Veterans Affairs committee were on federal agency overreach and poor performance due to Staffing shortages at the veterans Readiness and Employment Program um and since the inauguration of President Trump the VA
▶ 0:18:44has been thrown into chaos as other federal agencies have been thrown into chaos hiring freezes uh pushing staff to quit suspending grants eliminating programs that veterans with disabilities rely on and frankly this Congress hasn't stepped up to its Authority and stepped up to the plate in a way um that I think we should be at this moment uh this is an authority that expert Witnesses said would be used to restrain abuses uh in the executive branch I'll give you a quote from a recent hearing quote agencies
▶ 0:19:15are not permitted to misread their Congressional uh charge and statutes and their interpretation ought to be regarded with special skepticism when they purport to find sweeping new authorities and old statutes end quote that was Dr Dr Philip Wallock senior fellow at AEI testified before this committee on December 18th of last year yet today agencies under President Trump's executive actions are finding all kinds of new ways to circumvent congressional oversight Dr wallik further reminded this committee during his testimony
▶ 0:19:45after the Loper decision that many observers hope that these interventions can come from the executive branch specifically political appointees in the upcoming Trump Administration notably Elon Musk and Vivic ramaswami who lead the recently argued in the Wall Street journals uh Wall Street Journal that the Court's recent ruling opens the door for the president to nullify thousands of regulations based on improper interpretations through non-enforcement and then review and recision it's not at all clear that this is a sound prescription instead the
▶ 0:20:15remedy for excessive administrative power is a revitalization of congressional power not just a different flavor of administrative power as overseen by a more aggressive Court end quote Dr wallak concluded his test testimony by emphasizing how members from both parties should rely on information and guidance provided by public service professionals at VA and push bipartisan legislation through Congress he said if that seems like pie in the sky idea of how the house operates then we all need to be asking how to make it work better
▶ 0:20:46so I believe in the good work of this subcommittee and the role of our committee in legislating and in overseeing the department none of us want unelected bureaucrats running wild damaging systems and compromising benefits for veterans so I want to work with every member of this subcommittee to ensure that veterans are at the center of all of our efforts and that we are truly delivering the benefits that they have earned in a timely fashion so Mr chairman I appreciate your comments saying that this is a nonpartisan place for work and I couldn't agree more
▶ 0:21:16that's why we must do the job of oversight of federal agencies and programs stand tall as a co-equal branch of government and not shrink from our responsibilities especially when it comes to the end veteran so regarding the hearing today I look forward to VA providing more information on the implementation of the Elizabeth Dole act and hearing from VA about plans for 2025 and Beyond and I do want to thank you most sincerely Mr chairman for the time um and I yield back and look forward to uh the next couple years together thank you Mr Pap I I appreciate
▶ 0:21:47several of your comments um I would I I would like us to focus internally sir and uh and I've done nothing over over the last two years other than reminding the Biden Administration that we are co-equal branch of government and I would I would remind you sir that uh president Trump has been in office for three weeks and I think a day so let's look forward collectively um to doing things great and if we
▶ 0:22:17have uh concerns I think we should address these and so I'll now introduce the witness panel our first witness is Mr Ken Smith acting Executive Director of Education Services at the veterans benefit Administration Mr Smith is accompanied by Mr James ran I got that right a deputy director of Education Services at the veterans benefits Administration I'll ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your hand do you solemly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth the whole truth nothing but
▶ 0:22:47the truth thank you let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirma of Mr Smith you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony on behalf of the Department of of Veterans Affairs thank you sir uh chairman Orton van Orton ranking member Papas and members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to discuss va's delivery of education benefits to our veterans and their families accompanying to me today is Mr James ran deputy director of Service I understand and I'm read in
▶ 0:23:17on the concerns this committee has raised on various issues in this space one such issue that came to my attention was your staff's recent visit to our regional processing office in Mogi while there they observed the processing of a claim related to the Supreme Court's recent rudicil decision I understand that it did not go as plan while the claim was processed it took too long and encountered several obstacles your staff heard concerns directly from claims processors noting the very complex instructions
▶ 0:23:47that they as claims processors are expected to follow our team also described how claims go back and forth several times before being fully completed adding to the delays and aging of claims we are taking immediate actions to engage claims processors who are working these claims to gather their feedback VBA is evaluating current resources and tools fine-tuning procedures and exploring additional training opportunities as well as enforcing accountability throughout the process
▶ 0:24:18despite some challenges I want to highlight that VA has made some great strides over the last several years to improve benefit delivery and customer experience VA is automated approximately 50 % of certificates of eligibility for new applicants allowing veterans to start their educational Pursuits faster supplemental claims are currently hovering near near near 70% automated up from 40% in March 2021 we're also working to modernize our systems in July 2024 VA
▶ 0:24:48took first tangible steps to move 87% of Education benefit payments off of the 50-year-old Legacy Cobalt system just this month VA processed its first non- chapter 33 claims on the DGI platform we are on track to complete the migration from the Legacy bdn system by 2025 with a recent passage of the Elizabeth Dole act VA has M momentum to move make necessary improvements to assist veterans in
▶ 0:25:18obtaining full-time employment participants in the prior program overwhelmingly recommended Vette Tech to other veterans VA proactively va's proactive efforts to improve customer experience are making a difference across the board vba's customer experience survey trust score responses indicate 87% of respondents Express confidence about enrolling in schools to use their education benefits up from 72% in 22 and 85.6% trusted They will receive their
▶ 0:25:48education benefits up from 75% in 2022 VA also recognizes that strengthening Partnerships with external entities expands the veterans report Network we will meet regularly with the leadership of the National Association of State approving agencies and school certifying officials our collaboration with the saas has improved the risk-based surveys resulting in improved accountability and VA is currently approving new programs in approximately 5 days School certifying officials are
▶ 0:26:18important Partners serving as the first touch point for veterans enrolling in school these seos overwhelmingly endorse improvements to the DGI enrollment manager which replaced the first the Legacy VA once program in March 2023 and has already processed 10 million enrollments in calendar year 2025 VA will address multiple High priorities to include continuing DGI modernization improving the rudicil review for a million potential beneficiaries and
▶ 0:26:49enacting the medi education related provisions of the Elizabeth Dole act we will also Implement recommendations from the office of Inspector General and government accountability office Mr chairman I share this committee's mission of working for veterans in ensuring that VA effectively delivers the very benefits that veterans have earned and deserve I commit to you that I will work to get it right remain transparent in our efforts and to not shy away from the challenges my team and I will always put veterans and beneficiaries first
▶ 0:27:19Mr chairman this concludes my statement my colleague and I are prepared to answer any questions you or other members of the committee may have thank you Mr Smith the written statement of Mr Smith will be entered into the hearing record we're now going to proceed with the questioning um so you're new here you two are so we do five minutes not five minutes and 50 seconds cool just keep it on track we can always do a second round of questioning if you guys are not satisfied with the answers from the witnesses okay yeah talking
▶ 0:27:49to McGarvey over there all right I now recognize the ranking member papis for 5 minutes uh to question the witnesses okay let's see how I do you'll be fine thank you Mr chairman um thanks for the testimony Mr Smith and um our office and so many of my colleagues offices have been flooded with constituent calls over the last uh few days and few weeks uh We've literally heard from thousands of people in my district in New Hampshire uh who are concerned about sweeping executive orders from the administration including those that are impacting VA um the orders along with unclear
▶ 0:28:19guidance have um I think shaken confidence in the ability of uh or the understanding that VA is going going to deliver on its promises to our veterans I've heard that directly from the veteran community in New Hampshire so we recently made aware of a list of positions at VA that are not eligible for Elon musk's so-called fork in the road retirement plan one of the positions is a vr& counselor you may be aware that I sent a letter to the uh secretary asking for this position to be exempt from the hiring freeze
▶ 0:28:50so my question to you is if the position is so Mission critical that these individuals aren't eligible for the retirement offer why are these positions subject to a freeze thank you for the question sir um there's a separate executive order that we're operating under uh that implemented a government wide hiring freeze and you know we are following that order do you expect that VA will request an exemption from the freeze to hire staff
▶ 0:29:20members that can service veterans Economic Opportunity benefits including positions that are needed uh to administer vr& I am not sure what the secretary will choose to do uh but certainly await his guidance okay if an exemption were granted and wait times uh were not granted and weit times could increase as a result would the administration reconsider an exemption as soon as possible to minimize the impact to disabled veterans who are seeking employment we absolutely want to minimize impact
▶ 0:29:50to the extent uh possible uh and we'll work with you and the appropriators to make sure that we have the that we can fill to our budget ceiling um once we've reached the the position where we can begin hiring again so to your knowledge have any VR e connected positions been rescinded uh I I don't know sir okay and what if anything is va's plan to ensure that veterans don't experience delays in accessing these earned benefits
▶ 0:30:21um speaking for the uh the education delivery of benefits um our position our claims processing positions are also Exempted um as uh claims processors uh we continue to execute against the mission with the Staffing that we have uh and our high rate of automation is supporting that as well allowing us to deliver those critical benefits so I want to get to rudicil you brought it up in your testimony a population of over a million veterans and their dependents who are potentially impacted
▶ 0:30:51by the decision which established that eligible veterans and their dependence can access up to 48 months of Education benefit if they serve during two periods typically before and after 9/11 so how is the president's hiring freeze impacting va's ability to begin reviewing these uh we are we are reviewing all the rudicil claims with existing staff uh so I would say that we have the staff on board to uh conduct this review um right now we are
▶ 0:31:22in the midst of our spring hiring surge uh so we are working to ensure that we are delivering ing benefits for veterans and family members who are in school uh and then we'll shift to uh rudicil we prioritized those claims uh so that we are making decisions for those that are in school and low on uh remaining entitlement uh so that they can continue their educational Pursuits so with respect to the review um in a briefing January 7th it
▶ 0:31:52was reported uh that it would take approximately 22 months to complete the review because existing examiners at Regional processing offices have the ability to um conduct this work only have the ability to conduct the work during non- Peak enrollment periods so um it seems that waiting to hear about eligibility for 22 months is not centering on Veterans and putting them first is there any way that that time frame can be expedited and what would you need
▶ 0:32:22uh to get that review done in a much more timely fashion uh as I said we our current method is to prioritize those claims that uh where the veteran or family member is in school um or low on entitlement um that that's I think the the best we can offer at the moment uh would additional Staffing help you conduct those that review in a timelier fashion less than 22 months these are very complex determinations I I am not certain that additional Staffing
▶ 0:32:52at this point would help okay my time's up I yield back thank you reing member papis I now recognize uh Mr Barrett from the great state of Michigan which is directly across from Lake Wisconsin is that uh anywhere near the Gulf of America Mr chairman very close sir okay glad someone got that thank you um Mr Smith uh I know that there's been a lot of discussion about um these uh risk-based surveys that are done and what constraint
▶ 0:33:23that's had the the downstream effect of that on Veterans being able to access education that really fits their needs and what they're seeking um can you give us an update as to the status of these risk-based surveys and whether they're being used in a um strategic way to disincentivize educational institutions from participating in GI Bill and making that accessible to Veterans uh thank you for the question sir I'll give a short answer and then hand it off to Mr ran um who's much more
▶ 0:33:53uh uh an expert on risk-based surveys I will say that uh we do not Target any specific schools we use a data driven approach to determine uh who ought to um be reviewed under these surveys and um uh ensure that veterans are receiving the training uh and not to fraud it their benefits Mr ran the purpose of the risk-based uh surveys is to provide health checks and
▶ 0:34:24fix any problems before uh veterans become at risk and uh end up being impacted by a school closure and not being delivered with the quality of Education that they deserve and expect we do work closely with our SAA Partners uh to revise that model we've actually done it for three years in a row and we're currently in uh discussions with the state approving agencies at their midwinter conference in Crystal City which is going on uh this week and we're going to continue to
▶ 0:34:54revise those models we've seen decreases year after year we as we have revised that model from about 1,300 in fiscal year 2023 about 250 in fiscal year 2024 and less than 200 this year and we'll continue to do that but it is not the uh goal of either VA or the state approving agencies that are doing the risk-based surveys to drive schools out of the market or to decrease the number of opportunities available and we remain committed to working with our partners uh
▶ 0:35:24to make sure that we're looking at the right schools and not over burdening other schools that are are in good shape but is it also true that um someone not involved with VA not not a part of your organization or anything else can still prompt a complaint that would trigger this um review that you've describe the risk-based survey that you've described complaints can drive uh the the selection of a school for a risk-based survey
▶ 0:35:54uh we actually have a minimum of two complaints that are needed in in order to possibly do that and that's actually done also in combination with a number of other factors uh such as rapid growth in in the student population enrolled in a program uh the uh payments per student uh 8515 violations 9010 violations any other serious uh actions or or scrutiny by state or federal agencies uh and we do negotiate the selection of those schools
▶ 0:36:24with the state approving agency so we don't expect a school to be selected solely because of a single or or even two Anonymous complaints um that was something that that was at least partially responsible for the 1300 number in fiscal year 2023 but that's one of the things that we've really focused on along with uh no longer looking at the uh at the transfer or retention or persistence rates which tended to Target uh community colleges and two-year feeder schools for the four
▶ 0:36:55years okay thank you Mr Mr chairman I'll back thank you Mr Barrett uh the chair now recognizes um Morgan McGarvey from the great state of Kentucky thank you Mr chairman good to be back here this congress with you all thank you all for being here today um look I think one of the things that makes this committee a fun committee to serve on is that we all agree we all agree that we want to get our veterans the brave men and women who are willing to put
▶ 0:37:25on a uniform and sacrifice everything for us the benefits they have earned and they were promised so I'm glad we're having this hearing because we need to focus on how to better serve our veterans I also want to make sure that we're putting all the focus on the right place which is getting these veterans their services and how do we actually do that because that is what we want to have happen come back with me to Louisville Kentucky I'll take you in the VA I'll take in VFW 1170 I'll take you anywhere and you're going to hear some similar
▶ 0:37:55things one a lot of veterans do appreciate when the VA works for them and there are things at the VA that are working for them then they're going to tell you about the things at the VA that aren't working for them uh we're here today talking about education benefits on on this committee and I think you would hear a lot of things speed that they're not getting these benefits quickly enough uh you're going to probably hear complaints about confusing jargon uh confusing things that happen like how do we how
▶ 0:38:25do we jump through these hoops how do we get these benefits we were supposed to have earned uh and then of course that ease access kind of goes in with a confusing jargon how how are we getting veterans what they need so when we talk about the VA and the bureaucracy at the VA I think we can admit we all want there to be efficiency in the VA we want these services to be timely delivered but I don't want to just scapegoat every person who works at the VA because we have a lot of really talented public servants who are at the
▶ 0:38:55VA getting our veterans the care and the things they need and so when you look at what's happening even though we're only three weeks into the Trump Administration when you look at the executive orders on the hiring freezes that applies to everybody even we've heard from from doctors who've had a hiring freeze and I know we're not talking about Healthcare and VA today but that certainly plays into what we're talking about um they're talking about drastically altering some of these policies in an effort to starve out some of our dedicated public servants and
▶ 0:39:26cut the workforce at the VA um I think we're here with the right intention but I want to make sure we are here with the right focus and when you look at Congress it's the real complaint here is that we need to improve the policies and procedures in VA let's do it let's work together to make those changes I'm totally for it but if we're concerned that railing against the VA is just pretext to begin a doge death spiral of the VA where you got the workforce in the name of efficiency leading to slower benefit
▶ 0:39:56delivery and more backlog for our vets then let's remember who we're here to serve and so I think about these changes um one you mentioned something I want to get into Mr Smith you said that additional Staffing wouldn't necessarily help you know one thing I hear from veterans is even if we go in the name of look we use technology in all of our daily lives I hear from a lot of veterans that at the end of the day they want a person at the other end of the line
▶ 0:40:26eventually what would help you said Staffing won't help what will help us clear this backlog and get veterans the benefits they need and deserve thank you for the question uh and I certainly appreciate your comments um we are very focused in uh improving our trust scores including all of the elements that you just mentioned uh as well as ensuring that uh veterans feel valued that's a key element of our trust score um in sort in terms of what will ha what I'm sorry what will
▶ 0:40:56help uh I would say we need better procedures we need better job AIDS um we should not have to uh require our our claims processors to do um many multiple tasks uh without you know some supporting um like templates um and I think we we can look at technology as a an enabler as well we are not there right now um we need to take a look at you know things within our control
▶ 0:41:27uh in terms of those procedures job AIDS and tools issue some reinforcement to our folks who are one month or six weeks into processing these rudicil claims on a very steep learning curve uh and then reassess and go forward thanks that we're short on time um and so I just want to say I appreciate that I I do want to make sure that we are getting our veterans what they need if some of that is technology that is fantastic we need effic
▶ 0:41:57we need better off but we also we need to recognize what's going on right now um there are 1.7 million veterans who become eligible for additional GI benefits VBA is already using overtime and seasonal capacity so thanks so much and we'll we'll keep on this Mr McGarvey if you'd like we'll do a second round of questions that Dar understand Mr paps would like to do that already so thank you very much the gentleman yields back the chair now recognizes our newest member from uh the Northern Mariana Islands uh Miss King Hines for five minutes
▶ 0:42:29thank you Mr chairman for this opportunity to learn a little bit more about veteran Education Services so I come from the Northern Mariana Islands and our issue with ve with regards to Veterans is just access and so I'm to just to see what the um the program currently does to ensure that that Equitable access for veterans living in remote areas like the cnmi um with regards to the digital GI
▶ 0:42:59Bill platform is um uh ensures basically that our veterans have the same access uh yes thank you for the question um all US service members um establish eligibility to education benefits based on the merits of their service um I'd like to ask Mr ran to talk to us a little bit about uh getting schools approved uh over you know in uh remote sure I
▶ 0:43:30PRI prior to this hearing I actually did look uh to see how many schools are approved in the Commonwealth of the northern Marian there's one college on sipan and that's it to the extent that you have other training providers that are interested in uh seeking GI Bill approval we can work with you to get them GI bill approved in order to uh have more opportunities in the northern Marianas uh for V who do live there and we'd love to work with you on that
▶ 0:44:01um we also do have a number of programs which are online which uh could be accessed and and those of course can be accessed worldwide um but really we need to have more schools offering programs whether that's technical schools degree granting programs excuse me um employers who have on the job training programs that's that's one of the ways that probably you could increase the number would be to find some employers whether that's electricians plumbers really any of the
▶ 0:44:31trades uh skill trades that have OJT programs could be approved uh in the northern Marianas as well to allow people to use their benefits and to gain uh skills which will help them get better paying jobs all right thank you so it it it was raised that a lot of times right our vets really would like to be able to have access to a real life person to be able to um work through through some of these applications and in remote areas like the cnmi
▶ 0:45:01or rural areas in particular right access to to the internet is is a challenge and um what what have you done with regards to just Outreach to these communities to ensure right we're we're talking about digitizing a platform but in remote communities like ours um sometimes access to digital platforms is a challenge and so what um Outreach work has been done to ensure that remote and Rural
▶ 0:45:32communities just have a Fighting Chance basically at being able to Avail some of these Services Mr ran could you answer i' like to ask Mr rman to answer that question uh most most of our Outreach is uh done using uh a number of different uh approaches but the bulk of it is through email uh websites and it is electronic um we I'm sure we'd have people who would love
▶ 0:46:02to do additional Outreach uh uh in person um but that would require additional travel funding um I'm I'm not sure what else we can do in the short run but I would love to have further discussions about what we could do to provide better service to individuals uh in the in the Commonwealth of the northern Marianas as well as other uh more remote places within the United States because we do want to reach those individuals as well thank you Mr chairman i y my time
▶ 0:46:33the gentlem lady yields back the chair now recognizes Miss Ramirez my dear friend from the great state of Illinois thank you chairman it's good to have Midwestern representation in committee uh and I want to thank the ranking member also for holding today's hearing and the witnesses for joining us today by the title of this hearing I'd like to believe we're all in agreement that education is an important tool to lift up our veterans and provide them with opportunities and while I know that my colleagues across the aisle have turned their
▶ 0:47:03backs on commitment to honor inclusion because of the current administration's attacks on diversity and equity and inclusion programs I do have some news for them and turning their backs on a commitment to diversity is turning their backs on veterans veterans are diverse and I'm proud to 2,727 diverse V veterans of Illinois third congressional district let's be be clear that when we're talking about veterans we're talking about women we're talking about people of color
▶ 0:47:33we're talking about first generation veterans we're talking about low-income veterans we're talking about lgbtqi plus veterans and deported veterans they're all veterans and each veteran is to be celebrated in their diversity and entitled to full access to their benefits that they've earned and we promise them and that's why I take such a responsibility to provide careful oversight of our education um Services seriously it's our job and we can't let attempts to dismantle veteran services or deny the unique needs
▶ 0:48:03of diverse veterans in the name of efficiency derail us from our duty in fact if anything it should make us fight even harder defend the progress we've made in serving veterans more effectively and so with that I want to turn to some questions the GI Bill comparison tool currently allows veterans to search for schools that have a particular population Focus such a women's college for example Alaska native serving institutions Hispanic serving institutions we call them hsis or historically black
▶ 0:48:34colleagues colleges and universities the HBCU Mr Smith will the VA remove this information as a search feature for veterans in order to comply with Trump's administration's executive orders ending diversity equity and inclusion programming thank you for the question ma'am um one week on the job in I have not gotten any instructions to that uh to that end but um I'd be happy to bring something
▶ 0:49:04back to you Mr myth I would appre Mr Smith I would appreciate that I certainly want to make sure that I know what search um information is available not available as veterans are looking at schools so we'll follow up with you but let me send you let me ask you another followup question as you're searching if the Eva would remove the ability to search institutions by diversity characteristics How would interfering with a how would that actually interfere with a veteran's freedom to choose a school of their
▶ 0:49:35liking uh you want me let me you want me to repeat it please yeah so I've asked you if the VA is looking at removing this information the search feature that allows people to look at a school you know based on is it a women's college is it an Alaska native serving institution is it an HSI or HBCU and my question to you was is a v going to remove the search feature and my follow-up question to you because you're going to get me that information is if the VA removes the ability to search institutions by diversity
▶ 0:50:05characteristics how will this interfere with a veteran's freedom to choose a school of their liking um I I believe that would force them to use another uh search method for uh identifying schools of their choice uh but that's that's my what search method would they be using Google like what I that would be my yes so they'd have to start googling when they already were able to do that through the system that they use but now we're saying we don't want you to have that choice so we're going to have you have to go
▶ 0:50:35look at other formats so in some ways they would impact their ability and accessibility to be able to look through the system they already have in place correct it it would be a two-step process making it harder for veterans all right well let me let me follow up this past week my district office has been taking calls from concerned constituents who unclear about how the Trump's Administration executive orders on funding and programs may impact the processing of their GI claims and their GI benefits let me
▶ 0:51:05ask you one last question Mr Smith since these executive orders have been announced have veterans reached out concerned about the impa impact of the changes under Education Services and benefits I I'm un I'm unaware of any call Traffic specifically tagged to the executive orders but I could certainly research that do you have more calls this last week than you had before I'm unsure what our call volumes are right now can you check on that for me thank you certainly thank you Mr chairman gentle lady eeld back um interestingly enough we have a senior enlisted
▶ 0:51:35guy here got a warrant officer and a commissioned officer right correct Army Intel oxy right there I'll tell you be honest with and I would like to just publicly state that from my perspective I don't recall a single instance where we cared about the color of someone's skin their gender religion or what they do in the privacy of their own home and I think we all need to get back to that position and I can affirmatively
▶ 0:52:06speak with confidence from the Trump Administration uh from their perspective uh that they don't care about the color of your skin your gender your religion or what you do in the privacy of their home and that we will be approaching they will be approaching as well this subcommittee uh from a absolutely 100% new neutral perspective and if anyone chooses to not do that then they are no longer welcome on the subcommittee and that's how we are doing our business that is cut and dry and that
▶ 0:52:36is the formal policy and Mr Pap I haven't even discussed this but we we're not doing this correct doing what we're we're not going to we're not going to look at people through these individual lenses oh happy to have a conversation about okay what VA needs to do to reach underserved veterans yeah 100% legitimate concern about de going way in us not being able to uh seek out those veterans that uh deserve and need assistance so I think that's the concern that Mrs Miss Ramirez was expressing
▶ 0:53:06and I I support her uh yeah I question don't get me wrong my I have tremendous amount of respect for you ma'am I just want to tell you that our perspective as veterans from the entire stratifi stratified uh levels of the military is we just don't see things that way and we serve Tom how long are you how long are you in 22 years Mr chairman I was 26 how about you Mr AMD okay so we got you know 60 years of military experience here I'm just saying that that we don't see it that way and uh if there's
▶ 0:53:37anything we can potentially do better to reach all of our veterans you had that flag on your shoulder I'm with you just to be clear so we're on the same sheet very well the chair I Recon is Mr sisani from the great state of Arizona for five minutes thank you Mr chairman um you know one of the major focuses that that I've that I've had since getting here to Congress and being on this on this committee is the transition from active duty service into uh into veteran uh into into civilian life and also what that means for them in terms of
▶ 0:54:07job opportunities I have an advisory Council that I formed two years ago where I have um 20 veterans in my district and they range from from enlisted and being in for four years all the way up to retired generals of uh 35 plus years of service so it it helps me get a real sense of what the transition looks like and it looks differently for for every every person out there but this is one of the main things that I hear in our community that the the different opportunities that veterans can have so with with my bill the senator
▶ 0:54:37uh Elizabeth Dole 21st century veterans Healthcare and benefits Improvement act that you mentioned just a little bit ago now being law I look forward to the many educational opportunities for veterans that will be created as a result of this enactment from commercial driers licenses to careers in computer science this bill puts veterans and their loved ones first by extending popular programs like the vettech um eliminating red tape for more opportunities in education for veterans and expanding fry the fry scholarship benefits for
▶ 0:55:07surviving spouses and those um who Remar as well so I look forward to continuing to hear more uh from from uh you all on on how the VA is putting our veterans first through their educational Journey so in this in this uh particular topic Mr Smith as you know vetc is an important uh higher education program that has put thousands of veterans into high paying jobs across the country so I look forward to seeing this uh continued what what does the VA plan to when I'm sorry when does the VA begin
▶ 0:55:37to uh enroll veterans in this program again thank you for the question sir uh we are still working on an implementation plan uh I do not have a date yet but I would be happy to bring that back to you in Congress once we is there a sense of urgency on this this is an important aspect of of of the overall bill you know this has been a pilot program that was highly successful so I'm hoping that that we have a sense of priority and urgency on this one yes sir
▶ 0:56:08and on the uh a provision in the legislation states that 4,000 students can be enrolled annually do you believe this number will be reached uh will be reached this this year and if you expect Congress we'll need to increase that number in the future uh um again I think I need to get some understanding of what the implementation timeline looks like um we are looking carefully at um improving the uh the payment processing systems and our ability to manage this uh through
▶ 0:56:38our uh digital GI Bill platform uh to ensure that we have um payment integrity and uh are reaching the right veterans uh so once we get all of that lined out within an imple implementation timeline I would be happy to talk to you more and I'm very interested in talking about that specific timeline um the federal government isn't known for its expediency so I I think we need to really uh make sure that this is moving quickly and swiftly we have it's 4,000 a year in my district alone we have almost 80,000
▶ 0:57:09veterans that's my district alone one of 435 in the nation so that we in my mind there's there's uh uh you know every reason to reach the 4,000 and hoping that you come back and request for for more because this is a highly successful program that we need to make sure that that happens what what about uh other aspects of the bill like the the fry scholarship uh is is how's that going and where are we on that uh yes sir so um the extension of delimiting dates uh for fry Scholars uh that
▶ 0:57:39is already completed uh because that was something that we could handle uh in um uh just regulation so we are moving forward with that I I'll ask the same follow-up question what what are the what's the timeline on this what are you what are you thinking uh ask Mr rman to give me uh some help with that I I believe it's already done yeah there there are actually two fry Provisions the first one section 2011 which has to do with a temporary expansion of uh fry scholarship benefits
▶ 0:58:09and that's for terms that start on August 1st 2025 we do expect uh right now to be receiving applications as of April 1st for that uh so it should be before anyone has the chance to enroll and use those benefits for Section 202 which has has to do with the delimiting date and remarriage we can actually handle that uh procedurally um because it's not something where it's determined by the system the computer system so that one actually was implemented on January
▶ 0:58:3930th so basically we're we're ready to roll on this right we you know we're now ensure that providers and students are able to participate in these programs and specifically the fry scholarship that's ready to go uh for the delimiting date and remarriage yes okay well I'm I'm out of time but I I would like to just get a sense of of the timeline for the Vette Tech please as specific as you can and with specific metrics on on the goals of reaching uh the the participants on there and also on on the remaining parts of the fry scholarship so thank
▶ 0:59:09you chairman back gentleman yields back the chair now recognizes Mr amade for five minutes welcome aboard sir thank you Mr chairman and your previous comments were exactly spot on the only thing we care about is the American flag on our right shoulders Le right right and um as an army veteran myself and a member of this committee I deeply troubled by the ongoing failures of the VA education services bureaucracy to efficiently deliver on the commitments we owe to those who have served the post
▶ 0:59:39911 GI bill was meant to expand opportunity but today bureaucratic failures at the VA are delaying benefits increasing costs and making it harder for veterans to access the education they've earned the botched digital GI Bill roll out is a prime example what was supposed to streamline benefits balloon from 470 million to nearly a billion dollars I mean that's embarrassing in the private sector that should be embarrassing in the government as well and it remains plagued by delays
▶ 1:00:10meaningless burdens like excessive risk-based surveys are forcing legitimate schools to drop GI Bill eligibility and the disastrous rudicil expansion could cost taxpayers 10 billion with VA bureaucracy unilaterally adding to the federal deficit we need accountability not excuses now the VA must work for the veteran not against them those who served our nation deserve the best now Mr Smith the VA is set set on November 2025 to finally
▶ 1:00:40complete transitioning VA education benefits to a long delayed digital GI Bill platform this timeline has already slipped before so what is the VA doing to ensure that the digital GI Bill program stays on track for this release thank you for the question sir uh and let me say first you have my commitment to be accountable and to ensure that we're doing all we can to do right by veterans this committee and get it right for those that have earned the benefits uh we are on track for
▶ 1:01:10uh November 2025 to be off the bdn or the benefits delivery network cobal based system um we have had a successful transition this month uh with our first non chapter 33 claims processing we will move move chapter 35 dependence uh education assistance um next month uh and we are on track still with that overall deployment in by November well it's been 55
▶ 1:01:40days since chairman boss sent a letter demanding answers regarding the failed imple implementation of the digital GI Bill platform so I'm just curious why the committee has not received a response I I I will have to get back to you sir you seen the letter no sir this was to the Secretary I'm just wondering if there was any transition period you know from when you came in to see that letter I I have not yet in the first week on the job uh but I will certainly uh go back
▶ 1:02:11and look for that all right Mr chairman I yield back thank you the chair now recognizes themselves and the third party for five this just sounds so silly doesn't it um Mr SM where is your predecessor uh sir uh senior executive service is designed as a flexible um just tell me where he's at he's he's been reassigned to another business line H why would you
▶ 1:02:41suppose that is Mr um the VA moves at its own speed so I asked unanimous consent that this from April 1st 2023 this press release from the Department of Veterans Affairs is entered into the record without objection so ordered okay budget cut proposals would
▶ 1:03:12veterans this is from April 21st this is what you said uh that our budget cuts were going to threat in medical care for veterans didn't happen undermine access to to tell health as a matter of fact we expanded it that didn't happen worsen wait times for benefits that didn't happen prevent construction on healthc care facilities and Veterans need that didn't happen failed to honor the memory of all veterans we actually increased the budget by $81 million for our our uh cemeteries
▶ 1:03:42overseas so cut housing for veterans no increase food insecurity for veterans no deprive Veterans of mental health substance abuse and other health services no eliminate job training and support homeless veterans no okay this is still on your website okay enough of this trash so when we're talking look the Trump Administration has been in office for three weeks and one day that is still on your website and it is a pack
▶ 1:04:12of political lies enough sick of this garbage man so in 2020 there were 6579 128 veterans using Education Services in 2024 there's over 900,000 okay that's a 39.7% increase in participants and yet you have an 81.4% increase in your employees that are servicing this
▶ 1:04:43stuff with a 5% increase in funding so the math is not mathing sir you've bloated the bureaucracy and actually Shrunk the ability of veterans to get education benefits so you've done that I know you've been in office for a week and there's a reason your predecessor is no longer sitting there because of rampant failure it's just bad you said you're taking immediate action to correct these things
▶ 1:05:13what what is a specific example of an immediate action that you've taken Mr Smith to correct these deficiencies one sir I'm very interested in improving all right stop that's no you're no that's not it no I maybe you're not catching on we're not going to do this any longer I'll be in office for at least a year and a half or whatever it is left and I don't care I I I honest to God don't care if I'm sitting in this chair two years from now I do care if you're sitting in that chair two
▶ 1:05:44minutes from now um you you've mentioned accountability four times in your oral testimony what does accountability mean to you sir we need to improve our ability to manage risk the the schedule scope and cost are you aware of a single bureaucrat in the VA fired for poor performance one are you aware of one there are individuals that are terminated sir I can't begin to tell you yeah
▶ 1:06:14the reason how many guys have been laid or gals have been laid off for failure yeah I would have to get some uh information from our HR providers well please do so as a member of Congress it is not my job to to fire people in the uh executive branch that's just not my function I'm asking you if you're aware of people that have been terminated for poor performance and and that's just yes that is not my job okay good um and I would like to correct
▶ 1:06:44Mr rade uh so it didn't blow up from $460 million to $960 million it actually started the bid that you guys put in was $25 million $25 million when you could have just used the uh pel Grant process to do the electronic GI Bill but you put in a bid for $25 million it is now $960 million and I still don't think it's going to be uh done in time uh my time has expired I know Mr papis would like to do a second round of questioning so the chair now
▶ 1:07:14recognizes Mr papis for five minutes thank you I want to ask about implementation of a provision that was included in the Dole act I helped introduce a bipartisan bill it's the veteran Improvement commercial driver's license act and so this was included in Dole act um it is based on the notion that we should be cutting red tape uh to ease veterans transition into the civilian Workforce and help them find longterm secure employment so I'm wondering if VA has established the criteria and Reporting
▶ 1:07:45requirements uh for commercial driver training programs that are seeking quicker approvals to open a new location and how VA will track CDL schools performance if you can uh fill in some detail there that would be helpful uh yes I I can tell you that we are still working to implement that uh and it is on track for March of 25 and I'd like to ask Mr rman to give some details yeah we're working with our uh State approving agency partners in order to uh develop
▶ 1:08:15everything that we do need to uh Implement that program uh and we are working to develop some measurable requirements for really all of these Provisions uh especially vettech because the what you quoted was actually specifically almost verbatim from a GAO report and that is something that we're trying to uh meet those requirements for the various provisions of the doll act okay and because this is job training
▶ 1:08:45how will VA keep track of employment outcomes and will VA take steps to hold CDL schools that have low outcomes uh accountable in some way uh yeah we we are uh focusing certainly on uh veteran outcomes uh that is something that we've been working on over the past few years to get a better gauge uh of not only graduation but employment income um and and seeing really how long they're in the job as well that's certainly something that
▶ 1:09:15we want to do with Trucking programs as well now as far as actions to be taken if a threshold isn't met uh the authority to uh suspend or withdraw approval is generally held by our state approving agency partners which is why we would want to include them in the conversation but I think that we all have broad agreement that we only want to send veterans to schools that have good positive outcomes for veterans and we will continue to work with them as we roll This Out have all the policies in place by March
▶ 1:09:4530th and then move out in the 360-day Cadence as required by Statute after that okay I really appreciate those comments thank you very much Mr Smith if I could turn back to you uh committee staff traveled to moskee recently um as you know VA employs 1500 individuals there uh that receive calls for Education Service so I'm wondering if you can um build upon your testimony and give us uh the current performance of that site how how are we doing
▶ 1:10:16uh yes sir I can tell you that uh they are working diligently to process all of their fall enrollments um I I think that they performance is really solid uh given the fact that they are uh working through a high number of uh rudicil inspired claims and is everyone um on site and uh working in person or are some of these remote they are not remote
▶ 1:10:46but uh they are still uh they have until the 28th of uh April to uh return to the office and can you give us more information because we've heard these concerns not just with this facility but other VA facilities just about the status of workspace is there enough workspace for 1500 people to be in the office in person I I'm not aware of the details in Mogi but I could certainly find that out for yeah we'd like some more detail on that uh because VA is requiring all individuals at this
▶ 1:11:17office to be in person and that um could potentially result in a loss of productivity if we don't have adequate space for these folks uh or greater expense to be able to build out space I'm just wondering if uh VA would reconsider the decision for um this particular facility which seems to be operating at a high level of productivity that has made significant strides in um answering calls and veterans uh understood sir uh and I'm certainly um sure that the
▶ 1:11:47acting under secretary and secretary will consider that well I appreciate that and uh I think as we move forward um we do do need to make sure that those who are experts in this work who are Frontline workers who talk to Veterans Day in and day out have a voice in this process and that's one thing that I'll uh continue to try to bring out through these hearings U because I think too often uh we don't see those people that can give us important feedback about how to improve processes uh and again how to reach that end veteran
▶ 1:12:17uh who we uh owe a great debt too so thank you Mr chairman I yield back the gentleman yields back uh Mr barck the chair AR recognizes you for five minutes thank you Mr chairman um so Mr Smith Mr ran listened to a lot of your testimony today uh I brought this up in my uh meeting yesterday I've been a member of Congress now I think 38 days so there's a lot that I'm absorbing and learning about but I can tell you that one consistent denominator of all of this is that we have these systems these it systems
▶ 1:12:47that are intended to be implemented that go exponentially over budget fail to deliver veterans suffer as result the taxpayers don't get the value for the money that they've sent here we sit as a panel in a committee ask questions we don't get specific answers and then the process rinse and repeat every two years and the feeling is that the institutional members of the of the VA wait us out there's a two-year term you know the clock's running
▶ 1:13:18The Hourglass is going through wait two more years new faces will be up here new people will be there they'll ask you the same questions and the process will repeat uh I'm the chairman of the uh technology modernization subcommittee we've been looking at this electronic health record uh debacle that we've been facing now this digital GI Bill these consistent problems with implementation of large scale IT projects what can you tell us to restore number one that that confidence and Trust I mean I was looking
▶ 1:13:48at your biography and you know I'm an army grunt that got elected to congress I've been here 38 days I'm not an expert in human capital utilization and financial stewardship um as you are so help me understand how it is that the common denominator of all this is that we are always over budget underd delivering and as a result of that we have less to invest in the services that veterans have earned because we are spending money
▶ 1:14:18on these projects that fail to deliver yes sir I um I appreciate your comment I agree with you that that that's a lot of money uh there's there's no doubt about that um we are work I I think generally we need to be accountable to delivering these it systems we need to make I would say specifically not generally yes um we need to make sure that we are identifying risks early that we are setting scope budget and deliverable
▶ 1:14:49schedules uh that match the capability of the the provider uh and that we hold hold them accountable as well to achieve those objectives why doesn't that happen like it can't just be that we should do these things we don't live in shouldland we live in real world and that hasn't happened and it doesn't happen it continues to not happen and you know uh as they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result I feel like we're we're there and we've done that and we expect a different result and we expect accountability and and you
▶ 1:15:19promise accountability but then we never actually see that in action um did we follow for example the gao's advice about how to implement these projects I know they've done a lot of work around largescale it projects and it feels like VA continues to disregard their recommendations and advice was that followed in this in this instance uh I I am not certain sir whether they followed those Provisions um I I haven't had a chance to review all of that I can tell you that the IG did an audit of our
▶ 1:15:50uh deployment of uh djib and found that uh we needed to make some uh improvements in uh creating an integrated master schedule uh communicating better with the vendor and ensuring that we're um identifying early and often uh areas that could cause critical failures uh I I don't believe that happened before uh but that's my commitment to you that that's where I'm going so what actionable steps are we going to be able to have so for example when you come to my subcommittee down the road
▶ 1:16:20what actionable steps are we going to have by then to ensure that we have moved the ball forward and in this regard that we're actually going to stick the landing and get this thing done in the timeline that was promised that we're going to you know make a turnaround and get this done in in a way that will actually deliver results for veterans we're working right now to address the the findings or the recommendations of IG uh but that's not enough uh I want to really underscore the the need to uh ensure that the culture of uh the individuals
▶ 1:16:51that are working on this project understand this and and understand the expectation that we should be under budget not over budget and would you say that you have the capacity to um dismiss people who do not share that shared value with you yes sir and you you don't need any further Authority from Congress or the executive in order to do that no sir okay thank you Mr chairman I'll be back the gentleman y's back um so I just
▶ 1:17:21want to we did have this this hearing yesterday with Mr Barrett and um do do you now have a schedule for the digital GI Bill do we have a schedule like boom we're doing it on this day my understanding is that yes we've developed an integrated master schedule do we have the integrated master schedule anybody you got it do you have one
▶ 1:17:51nope okay so if you have one it would be great if you shared it with us because we have to fund that thing and if we don't have it and you did it and we've been asking for a year or so for this uh that's a problem now Mr Smith I understand you've been in this job for a week um and so believe it or not you're getting some Grace from this committee and that stops after this Committee hearing so the the Veterans Affairs Administration is responsible for blowing through billions
▶ 1:18:22of dollars uh to say that to say that the VA Administration spends money like a drunken sailor is not accurate because when a drunken sailor runs out of money he goes back to the ship um and we're not the ship anymore pal I hope that's really clear with everybody here um I believe that we have found Common Ground Mr papis uh we are going to uh approach uh the executive
▶ 1:18:52branch and I think it would be it make more sense if people return to their previous disposition prior to covid so if we have folks that were working remotely at this call center and it's an old grocery store um if they weren't physically located in that building then I don't know how if they return to work that that would be beneficial they're five you said 500 like 500 deaths short and it equipment so we will take that for Action um
▶ 1:19:22because that just doesn't make sense to me and I think it's pretty clear I mean we're now under the Trump Administration I speak to you the same way I did people under the Biden Administration and I I just don't care uh what political party you're affiliated with I don't care this makes sense it appears to make sense and so we'll take that for Action sir yeah um okay uh Mr papis do you have any closing comments just oh sorry wait the chair now recognizes the ranking member for any closing comments he may or may not have thank you to our Witnesses
▶ 1:19:52and um look I've served on this uh committee for uh six years this my fourth term now I've served uh during uh president's administrations of both parties and I think the commitment has to be the same to provide uh the oversight that Congress is required to do and at the end of the day I know that everyone around this table shares the same commitment uh to our nation's veterans we may come at it from different perspectives from time to time um but I really join you in trying to seek that Common Ground
▶ 1:20:23uh and trying to seek better outcomes for veterans uh at the end of the day uh that's how our success is going to be measured here on this subcommittee and on the full committee and really look forward to the work ahead so thank you the gentleman yields back uh I don't really have closing comments other than the fact that I would like to thank ranking member papis and everybody for for participating in today's uh hearing I ask unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks
▶ 1:20:53that include EX tring us materials and without objection so ordered this hearing is now adjourned