▶ 0:20:07on highways and transit will come to order. I ask unanimous consent that the chairman be authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. Also ask unanimous consent that members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at today's hearing and ask questions. Without objection, so ordered. As a reminder, if members wish to insert a document into the record, please also email it to timail.house.gov.
▶ 0:20:35Again, that's documents ti mail.house.gov. I now recognize myself for the purposes of an opening statement for five minutes. Today's hearing builds on the subcommittee's efforts to examine key issues concerning our nation's surface transportation programs as we work to develop and enact an ontime multi-year surface bill.
▶ 0:20:58At our previous hearings, we received testimony on the importance of this subcommittee's programs to the American trucking industry, which has an instrumental role in the safe and efficient movement of goods across the highway system to each and every one of our communities. Today's hearing further examines these programs and their impacts with a specific focus on our motor carriers. As a predominant users of the highway system, the trucking industry moved nearly twothirds of all goods into our communities in 2023.
▶ 0:21:28That's 12.9 billion freight tons worth an estimated 13.56 trillion. In fact, 80% of communities across the country depend solely on trucks to receive their goods.
▶ 0:21:44More than likely, every member of this subcommittee represents a community that exclusively relies on trucking to stock their supermarket shelves, transport critical medicines to localarmacies, and ensure retail stores have merchandise. In North Carolina, for example, 85.6% 6% of communities are dependent on trucking. The industry supports one out of every 15 jobs across the state.
▶ 0:22:12And I'm grateful to those men and women who day in and day out take on the task of delivering for all North Carolinians. And this is true all over the country. The trucking workforce's commitment to delivering for North Carolinians was on full display last year when Hurricane Helen ripped through our state, devastating communities, wiping out homes, and killing more than a hundred people.
▶ 0:22:35In the wake of the storm, truckers across the state and region and across the country, quite frankly, rallied without hesitation to deliver much neededed aid to our friends and neighbors. The bottom line is that truckers deliver essential goods when disaster strikes and serve as a key partner in larger emergency coordination and relief efforts. While federal law provides for targeted regulatory relief from certain restrictions during those times, we will continue to explore ways to help improve disaster response outcomes.
▶ 0:23:06And despite the importance of trucking to our communities and the supply chain at large, challenges continue to plague the trucking industry and the men and women behind the wheel. I suspect our witnesses today and encourage our witnesses today to detail some of the broad challenges the industry faces, including growing and retaining the truck driver workforce, ensuring seamless compliance with federal, state, and local rules and regulations, and addressing rising cost
▶ 0:23:36associated with moving goods from point A to point B for both small and large operators. We have an opportunity in our surface bill to address such challenges in a smart and targeted manner while strengthening local communities and our economy. I look forward to working with my colleagues on the subcommittee to make it easier for women and men to choose this profess profession.
▶ 0:23:58And in so doing, we must explore ways to make it easier for individuals to train and test for a commercial driver's license, as well as build off the safe driver apprenticeship program established in the infrastructure investment and jobs act to allow 18 to 20 year old drivers to cross state lines. So, we welcome uh panel your ideas about how uh to help the trucking industry continue to safely and efficiently deliver for all of our communities.
▶ 0:24:29I now recognize ranking member Norton for five minutes for her opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh I would like to thank uh subcommittee chair Rouser for holding this hearing on the importance of the trucking sector. These last five years have reminded us again and again of the great debt we owe our workforce.
▶ 0:24:54Despite of pandemic and global and domestic supply chain disruptions, truckers have never stopped delivering essential goods. 73% of all domestic freight freight by weight from groceries to life-saving medicine are moved by trucks.
▶ 0:25:18I would like to recognize the five District of Columbia area truck drivers from Teamsters Local 639 who are in uh attendance today.
▶ 0:25:32Stephen Rayborg to join uh J uh Jawis Senior, William Olden, Clarence Kerry, and John Wright.
▶ 0:25:58Top of mind today is ensuring truck drivers are paid the wages they deserve. While many work more than 60hour weeks, they are often paid by the load, not the hour, and are responsible for funding their own their own fuel and healthcare.
▶ 0:26:24Drivers also face other challenges in doing their jobs, including inadequate parking and rest Providing our drivers with safe workplaces and fair wages is key to regaining and growing the trucking workforce. We cannot discuss trucking in America without considering the safety of both drivers and those who share roads with them.
▶ 0:26:53Over the past two decades, more more and more people have lost their lives each year in large crashes. And in 2022, that number reached almost 6,000 deaths.
▶ 0:27:10We know that these fatal crashes frequently involved faster speeds and the involvement of b of vulnerable road users such as pedestrians, bicyclists, and construction workers.
▶ 0:27:26This committee must prioritize reducing truck speeds by getting the technology that already exists, such as speed uh limiters and automatic braking onto trucks as quickly as possible. Lives are on the line.
▶ 0:27:49Additionally, as we consider the next service transportation reauthorization bill, we must continue the safety investments we made in the infrastructure investment and jobs act.
▶ 0:28:03These program programs are currently deploying infrastructure across the country and will protect bicyclists and pedestrians from avoidable truck This Congress, we have an opportunity to maintain these efforts and find new ways to make progress on safety.
▶ 0:28:27I have long supported strong entry entrylevel drug driver training standards to ensure that truckers are fully prepared to safely safely operate their vehicles and deliver their Providing robust training empowers drivers to be safe and confident on the road.
▶ 0:28:56Finally, we know that freight fraud is currently plaguing the brokers, carriers, and operators are using deceptive practices to steal from businesses and take advantage of consumers. This is why I introduced with Representative M.
▶ 0:29:20Mike Eel, the bipartisan biccameal household goods shipping consumer production uh consumer protection act which would clarify the Federal Motor Carriers Safety Administration's authority to action against scammers and limit uh their costly and unsafety operations uh from even
▶ 0:29:51starting. I'm eager to work with this committee to pass this bill. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today and hearing their proposals to improve safety, support workers, and improve the ability of the trucking industry to efficiently move goods.
▶ 0:30:11I ask unanimous consent to enter a letter from the Institute of Safe Safer Trucking and Road a safe America into the record. Without I yield
▶ 0:30:41back my time. I'd now like to welcome our witnesses and uh thank them for being here today. Uh we are joined by John Elliot who's testifying on behalf of the truckload association. We're also joined by Louisie Pew representing the owner operator independent drivers association.
▶ 0:31:04Ryan Lindseay who's here testifying on behalf of the shippers uh Dan Glesing who's testifying on behalf of the American Farm Bureau Federation and currently serves as president of Minnesota Farm Bureau and himself. And last but certainly not least, we have uh Cole Scandalia. Is that how you pronounce that? Did I get that about right?
▶ 0:31:32Very uh pleased to have you here representing the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. So, briefly, I'll take uh just a quick moment to um explain the lighting system. Very self-explanatory. There are three lights in front of you. Green means go, yellow means you're running out of time, and red means wrap it up as quick as you possibly can. Otherwise, I might have to gavvel you down. I ask unanimous consent that the witness's uh full statements be included in the record. Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 0:31:59I ask unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing. Without objection, so ordered. I also ask unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments and information submitted by members or witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing without objection. So ordered. As your written testimony has been made part of the record, the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to five minutes.
▶ 0:32:36So with that, m Mr. Elliott, you are now recognized for five minutes. You may pro proceed. Chairman Rouseer and members of the highway and transit subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today on behalf of the truckload carriers association. TCA is the only national trade association whose collective sole focus is the truckload segment of the trucking industry. Representing carriers across the 48 contiguous US states, Alaska, Canada, and Mexico.
▶ 0:33:01My company, Load One, founded in 2003 just outside of Detroit, Michigan, is an expedited freight carrier that is today ranked as one of the three largest expedited companies in the United States by the Journal of Commerce. My operations account for over 700 power units. I'm a third generation transportation professional and a proud Army veteran and a strong believer in innovation is an opportunity opportunity to improve. With these principles in mind, I provide my testimony before you today. It is no surprise to anyone in the room that trucking brings value to the US economy and the citizens living here.
▶ 0:33:32Our industry enjoys them being the most flexible form of freight delivery in the world and we proudly say if you own it, a truck brought it. It is with that notion that we cannot fully stress enough the importance of the highway reauthorization to an industry that annually operates hundreds of billions of miles on US highways delivering the goods and services that this nation relies upon daily.
▶ 0:33:52Increasing the federal fuel tax to pay into the highway trust fund is a proposal has been discussed for years as a potential solution to address the infrastructure funding challenges in the United States and there may not be a better time to incorporate that model than exists today. Pairing a fuel tax increase at a time when fuel, both gasoline and diesel, are projected to continue falling, combined with an electric vehicle fee for those who operate electric powered vehicles could be paramount to continually sustain the trust fund for years to come.
▶ 0:34:18Trucking is proud to do its part in maintaining the workplace of our professional drivers and those that we share the road with. Still, we must continue to engage in discussions that address the real issues surrounding this funding. Now is the time to create a funding mechanism that removes tangible and outdated taxes such as the federal excise tax and establishes a road usage fee that takes administrative costs into consideration rather than pushing this into the next piece of legislation. Again, thinking that someone else can solve this problem.
▶ 0:34:45As this committee examines the shortcomings of what the IGA lacked upon its introduction in 2021, we can look no further than the lack of funding to create safer and secure truck parking for our drivers. Today, I commend Congressman Boston for his leadership in champing this effort to increase truck parking spaces across the country by again reintroducing HR1659, the Truck Parking Safety Improvement Act, already viewed as bipartisan with 27 co-sponsors.
▶ 0:35:10This legislation must be considered must-have language towards the future of our highways to increase the number of parking spaces from one spot to every 11 drivers for more opportunities for places to rest. when these drivers are trying to comply with federal hours of service rules. I would be remiss if my oral comments did not reflect upon the reauthorization bills that were enacted before IGA.
▶ 0:35:32The FAST act signed into law December 4th of 2015 included language allowing motor carriers to use hairollical testing as an acceptable alternative to urine based testing for its drug testing protocols. This provision was a significant step forward for our industry as it allowed for more effective drug testing methods. However, it has been almost 10 years since this language has been bestowed upon our industry.
▶ 0:35:53Personally, it is a travesty to me that the federal agency can block the directions of Congress for almost a decade while allowing known drug users to operate commercial vehicles on our roadways. Passing a urine test is a requirement to obtain a CDL. Hair follicle testing detects drug use 11 times more effectively than urine. TCA has carrier members who have participated in a recent study with seven total trucking companies who have utilized both hair testing and urine based testing for pre-employment screening of almost 88,000 drivers.
▶ 0:36:21Analyzing the survey results, the seven large motor carriers found that 4,362 drivers failed the air test with only 403 of them failing the urine test. That is a difference that our industry and this Congress should no longer ignore. Unfortunately, the situation is even more dire than testing alone. These motor carriers have employed hair follicle testing for their own measures. Have not been able to submit these drug test results to the National Drug and Alcohol Clearing House, allowing these drivers to work immediately for other carriers when only using urine testing.
▶ 0:36:50At a time when conversations lean towards the potential reclassification of marijuana from schedule one to schedule 3 narcotic, demonstrating that this problem is likely to only grow, our industry in its entirety is unable to properly employ the proper test to identify habitual users and other into a substance abuse program and begin the return of duty procedures. As I mentioned earlier, as a firm believer in innovation, I reference the techn technological improvements that our industry continues to advance.
▶ 0:37:14Automatic emergency braking AE technology with its potential to react quickly in emergency situations to prevent and mitigate accidents primarily due to human error fatigue or distraction offers a promising future for trucking safety. In our own experience with AEBS, the technology has proven itself time and time again. They may not prevent every rear end accident, but when they don't, the accident severity is indeed mitigated. In conclusion, I'm grateful the opportunity to testify you before you today on behalf of the truckload carriers association and have submitted more substantial comments for the docu for consideration.
▶ 0:37:44I'm happy to take any questions. Look forward to working with members uh Rouser and other members of the subcommittee to support efforts to meet the challenges our industry faces. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Pew. Thank you, Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Norton, and members of the subcommittee. My name is Louie Pew. I am the executive vice president of the owner operator independent drivers association.
▶ 0:38:08Prior to working at OIDA, I was a small business carrier for 23 years with racking up two and a half million safe miles of driving. Prior to that, I was a truck driver in the United States Army and I still hold my CDL today. OATA is the largest association representing small business truckers and professional drivers. We have 150,000 members across this country that collectively operate 240,000 pieces of equipment. And we have members living in every district of this committee.
▶ 0:38:38OATA's mission is to promote and protect the interest of our members on any issues that impact their safety and success. The highway bill is the Super Bowl during this Congress and this committee has an opportunity to pass the most protrucker highway bill in history. But I want to be clear that prot trucker and prot trucking are not always synonymous these days.
▶ 0:39:02In fact, many of the policies being touted as good for trucking industry are primarily designed to fatten the wallets and cover the butts of trucking executive, corporate shareholders, shippers, brokers, and moneyhungry trial lawyers. Most of these proposals prioritize profit over safety by doubling down on many of the problems that have made car careers behind the wheel less appealing and sustainable and our roads less safe.
▶ 0:39:30Continued acceptance of the widely debunked driver shortage myth has unfortunately convinced many of you that diluting credential standards, resisting enhanced driver training, lowering ages of CDL requirements, and bringing in more cheap foreign drivers is somehow good for trucking. You'll hear a lot today about the need to increase size and weights as something that is good for trucking.
▶ 0:39:57Make no mistake, these proposals are losers for truckers and highway safety. I want to especially caution new members of the committee about supporting these controversial increases. One vote to increase today's limits will have every group that wants a special treatment, expecting you to support their specific carveout for the rest of your tenure. Our conversations about what to include in the next highway bill continue after this hearing.
▶ 0:40:26Other organizations will propose a dizzying list of unproven and unworkable regulations. And some large carriers will legitimize these proposals with their support, not because they're commitment to improving safety, but because excessive regulations will drive up cost of their small business competitors. Trial lawyers will even tell you today's minimum insurance levels requirements for motor carriers are insufficient.
▶ 0:40:55despite federal research indicating that the levels covers damages of 99% of crashes involving trucks. In contrast, OADA is sharing our vision for highway safety that supports American workers, enhances the supply chain efficiency, and improves highway safety from the ground up by focusing on the most important element of trucking, the millions of hardworking men and women across this country who make their living on the road.
▶ 0:41:24Our goal is to shape federal policy in a manner to make trucking a more attractive and sustainable and safe career for professional drivers. In the end, we're working with bipartisan members of this committee on key policies that will help develop generation of safe drivers while simultaneously keeping today's experienced drivers behind the wheel.
▶ 0:41:48These policies include ending the truck parking crisis, combating freight fraud, guaranteeing broker transparency, ensuring restroom access for truckers at shipping facilities, reducing the perpetual driver turnover rates at large carriers, enhancing entry level driver training requirements, preventing the counterproductive speed limiter mandate, eliminating predatory lease to own schemes, and more.
▶ 0:42:17In my written testimony, we provided a blueprint for members of this committee who share our goal of passing the most trucker protrucker surface transportation reauthorization in history. I look forward to discussing these plans with you during the questioning and thank you very much. Mr. Lindseay, good morning. Recognized Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Norton, members of the subcommittee.
▶ 0:42:44Thank you for inviting me to testify today on the policies and programs affecting the US trucking industry on behalf of the shippers coalition. My name is Ryan Lindseay. I'm the grandson of a dairy farmer, the grandson of a truck driver, and the son of a ditch digger who proudly still holds his CDL today. Growing up in a family business in Texas, I saw firsthand the critical role that truckers and trucking plays in building our communities and building our infrastructure. Today I serve as executive vice president of CR.
▶ 0:43:14CR is the largest building materials business in the world. Although you may not know who CR is, you very well know us as APAC Midsouth in Alabama, uh Michigan Paving in Michigan, our Shelly Companies in Ohio. Our 50,000 employees across 48 states in 2500 operating locations are integral parts of the communities that you represent. We have some challenges facing our supply chain. It is harder today than ever before to move goods.
▶ 0:43:44Congress has the ability to make meaningful changes that would have big impacts on the way goods are moved across the country. Now look, we all know these supply chain problems exist and want to work in lock step with Congress to address this together. Our charge every day is to move goods from point A to point B in the safest, least disruptive, most efficient way possible. And to do that, we utilize ships, barges, rail, and most critically, we utilize trucks.
▶ 0:44:15In addition to the thousands of contract haulers we use on a daily basis, CR owns and operates over 15,000 trucks internally, nearly a third of those are operated by a skilled union workforce. I can tell you firsthand that the driver shortage is real. There is absolutely no question about it. Today, CR alone needs to hire another thousand truck drivers just to maintain current demand just to just to keep up.
▶ 0:44:45With this shortage, it is more critical than ever to ensure we have resiliency in the trucking pipeline. As Congress begins to work on the next highway bill, and we're really excited about that, by the way, there are policies that the Shippers Coalition is united behind that would not only improve our supply chain, but do so safely and without additional budgetary commitment.
▶ 0:45:07The Shippers Coalition represents more than 80 of our country's most prominent companies and trade associations in the manufacturing, food and beverage, and agrous industries. We are the ones who produce and provide goods and make sure you and your constituents can get them. We are also focused on improving the country's supply chains and increasing safety for everyone on the road.
▶ 0:45:31Congress should authorize a pilot program to modestly increase the gross vehicle weight limit on interstates from the current 80,000 lb limit up to 91,000 pounds while adding a sixth axle or the bridge formula, whichever is lower. Importantly, this proposal would be optin.
▶ 0:45:51It would also impose important conditions on participation which would protect the public interest, including the addition of an extra axle, weight distribution requirements of the bridge formula, and per axle limits so that safety concerns are met. Today, many of our trucks are departing facilities with only three quarters full.
▶ 0:46:12With an increase in GVW, we would see these trucks fill closer to capacity, meaning fewer vehicles on the road, fewer trips to accomplish the same task, and ultimately fewer miles in the system. Now, here's the bottom line. Just like we cannot build projects the same way we did 40 years ago, we can also not govern the trucking industry the same way. The GVW limit has not been updated in over 40 years, and now is the time to do so.
▶ 0:46:42CR and the members of the shippers coalition strongly supports the committee's efforts to improve trucking related policies and the safety of our communities. We hope you consider the initiatives outlined in my testimony as you work on surface reauthorization and hope to be a part of this solution along with you. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to answering your questions. Mr. Glassing, you're recognized. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. I am Dan Glessing, a fifth generation dairy farmer from Waverly, Minnesota.
▶ 0:47:13My wife Cena and I, along with our four children, milk 70 Holene cows and grow corn, soybeans, alalfa, and oats on our family's farm. I am the president of Minnesota Farm Bureau and I'm pleased to offer this testimony on behalf of Minnesota Farm Bureau and the American Farm Bureau Federation, which is the largest general farm organization in the country. The success of American agriculture relies on a robust, safe, and dependable transportation system.
▶ 0:47:38The products we grow and raise must travel far beyond our farm gates to reach markets, processors, and consumers. The journey that begins that journey begins on rural roads and bridges, which serve as a critical first link in our transportation supply chain.
▶ 0:47:53That is why Congress needs to consider common sense solutions that address our supply chain shortfalls by streamlining the process for hiring truck drivers, expanding safe parking opportunities, increasing truck weights, and allowing easier transportation of commodities within a 150 mi radius uh for drivers under the age of 21.
▶ 0:48:12A great example of the transportation policy on farmers all the way through the supply chain to the consumers has been highly pathogenic aven influenza which has significantly impacted Minnesota poultry populations and diminished the national supply of eggs. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration issued an emergency declaration exempting hours of service uh regulations for commercial motor vehicle operations engaged in the emergency transport of live chickens.
▶ 0:48:40While this declaration was helpful, it can make an even greater point to the agricultural supply chain. The decisions that are made in this committee and regulatory burdens faced by agriculture have a direct impact on the price of food for consumers and the livelihood of farmers in Minnesota and across America. My testimony today will uh outline several key issues affecting our nation's agriculture industry and transportation infrastructure.
▶ 0:49:08The American Farm Bureau continues to support the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act for its in uh essential investments in our nation's infrastructure. These investments will help keep US agriculture competitive in the global market, which is all the more essential when for the first time in many of our lifetimes, the US has become a net food importer. Ensuring that our farmers and ranchers have access to reliable transportation infrastructure is more critical now than ever.
▶ 0:49:34The National Highway Trust Fund is a is the backbone of our transportation in infrastructure, providing crucial funding for the maintenance and improvement of roads and bridges in rural communities. However, the fund faces long-term sustainability challenges. Farm Bureau supports increasing highway trust fund fees to reflect the advancements in fuel efficiency and rising inflation. We also advocate for ensuring that all road users, regardless of fuel source, contribute fairly to the fund's revenue.
▶ 0:50:04Investments in in roads and bridges must not only address urban congestion, but also the unique needs of rural America. Over 46% of America's roads are rated as poor or mediocre. And over 10% of rural bridges are structurally deficient. When a bridge closure forces a farmer to take a 50-mi detour just to transport their grain to a local elevator, it's not just an inconvenience. It's a direct hit to their bottom line.
▶ 0:50:29I urge this committee work on on the farm work with the Farm Bureau to prioritize long-term sustainable funding solutions uh for the National Highway Trust Fund. Transportation regulations must also take into account the unique needs of agriculture. We are transporting live animals and every additional stop or delay poses a risk to the health and safety. The IIGJ recognized this by providing an exemption for livestock and insect haulers from hours of service regulations within a 150 milei radius of their final destination.
▶ 0:50:59We appreciate the this committee's work in securing that exemption and we ask for continued support to ensure ensure regulations reflect the realities of agricultural trans transportation. In closing, I urge this committee to prioritize the needs of rural America as you consider transportation, infrastructure investments, and regulatory policies.
▶ 0:51:19By maintaining strong rural road and bridge funding, ensuring fair contributions to the highway trust fund, and upholding necessary exemptions for agricultural haulers, we can ensure a sustainable future for American agriculture. Thank you, and I look forward to your Mr. Scandalia. Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Holmes Norton, Ranking Member Larson, uh members of the subcommittee, uh thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
▶ 0:51:47The International Brotherhood of Teamsters represents 1.3 million hardworking people in the United States, Canada, and Puerto Rico, including more than 600,000 members who start their day behind the wheel. Per the title of today's hearing, one of the most significant ways the Teamsters support American communities is by securing strong contracts with good wages and benefits to support our members and their families. Further, companies big and small across the company rely on the Teamsters to keep their businesses running.
▶ 0:52:15I'm proud to be joined here today by five Teamsters drivers representing local 639 operating the DMV area. We come before you today at a critical moment as the committee begins its work on service transportation reauthorization. an important opportunity to improve roadway safety, increase the quality of life for workers in the trucking industry, foster responsible innovation, and strengthen American infrastructure.
▶ 0:52:37We commend members who have sponsored or co-sponsored trucking policy that the Teamsters have been proud to endorse and which passed into law last year, including the Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act, and the Transportation Security Screen Modernization Act, as well as legislation we hope to see enacted, including the Truck Parking Safety Improvement Act led by Representative Boston, the Trucker Bathroom Access Act led by Representative Nells, and the Guarantine Overtime for Truckers Act led by Representative Andrew.
▶ 0:53:04It is our expectation that conversations surrounding the supply of truck drivers will be of substantial interest to the subcommittee. To that end, we reiterate in the strongest possible terms our position that we reject the notion of a driver shortage. In this room, industry has come before you for 20 years to suggest that there is a mass shortage of truck drivers across the nation. But research, including the Bureau of Labor Statistics and recent analysis from the National Academy of Sciences, simply doesn't agree.
▶ 0:53:34In that regard, we com encourage the committee to consider that annualized turnover rate at large truckload carriers are consistently and shockingly in the 80 to 90% range as opposed to between 10 and 15% for less than truckload teamster carriers. Meanwhile, at UPS, the time between becoming a package car driver in local delivery uh and becoming and a position opening up to become a feeder driver operating UPS tractor trailer may take years with strong benefits in the protection of a union.
▶ 0:54:04We experience the opposite of a driver shortage. We encourage the committee to consider the root causes of why the pipeline for drivers elsewhere is damaged. With that said, the team serves at the forefront of developing high-quality CDL holders across the country. We operate first in their class CDL training schools at low to little cost for students. We believe the team's program offers a model CDL training and as a subcommittee considers the issues of driver supply.
▶ 0:54:29We hope to work with you to find ways to bring our expertise in training the safest commercial truck drivers to more of your constituents to provide more opportunities for prosperous careers in the trucking industry. The committee will also be tasked with addressing safety issues in trucking. On that note, the teams adamantly oppose efforts to raise maximum truck weight. Simply put, these proposals threaten safety, increase wear and tear on our nation's roads, and add unnecessarily operational difficulties for our drivers.
▶ 0:54:56Putting our members behind the wheels of heavier vehicles when all safety analysis agrees with our professional experience is simply putting them and members of public in harm's way. The teamsters also oppose efforts to modify hours of service protections, to increase drive time or duty windows, or to provide unwarranted flexibility to extend or wave hours of service protections. We also urge the committee to consider how structural changes in trucking may affect the ability of existing safety systems to account for them.
▶ 0:55:24In particular, this includes companies like Amazon deploying mass contracted fleets to evade oversight by FMCSA's compliance safety accountability program, as well as shifts to non-regulated under 10,000lb vehicles for last mile delivery. The testing and commercial deployment of autonomous trucks has only continued since the passage of the IAJ. And yet, we have failed to enact any kind of meaningful federal oversight over the testing and deployment of these vehicles.
▶ 0:55:51The committee and subcommittee maintain critical jurisdiction over several elements of autonomous vehicles particularly in trucking and we hope to work with you to develop statute and regulations in surface rioff which prioritize safety and the trucking workforce. The international brotherhood of teams thanks the subcommittee for the opportunity to testify today. We look forward to continuing to work together on a bipartisan basis on the upcoming service transportation reauthorization. Thank you. I thank the gentleman and thank every member of the panel. Appreciate your testimony very much.
▶ 0:56:20very very helpful and insightful as well. I now recognize myself for five minutes uh for questions. Uh Mr. Lindsay, I'm going to start with you. Uh you know, when a lot of us here and on this committee have dealt with natural disasters, uh natural disasters are very uh uh traumatic in in a number of respects and and in every regard.
▶ 0:56:40Uh can you speak uh a bit about carrier partnerships with states to address road closures uh truck weight exemptions and hour of service adjustments to expedite the delivery of supplies? Yes, sir. You know, when a disaster hits, uh most people are without and and they and they need as much help as they can get. So, I'd love for you to expound on that. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question, uh Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:57:04Um, you know, it's been a tough year uh for a lot of your districts, a lot of your states, for a lot of our employees, whether it's Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, uh, Mississippi, or California. It's been a hard year, and we've seen loss that that's been really tough to to handle. Uh, normally, um, we're absolutely supportive. Unfortunately, we have too much experience with dealing with disasters the last few years and and what that means to get communities rebuilt. We're absolutely supportive in these waiverss.
▶ 0:57:30Remember, we're building roads and bringing materials in so that a lot of critical supplies can then get to folks, right? So, we're oftentimes the first in like we were in Asheville on I40 when it washed out. Uh we were called on first to rebuild rebuild the roadway. So, waving those waving those requirements, uh having some leniency on the hours, it absolutely helps things open up faster. So, thank you for your question. Uh Mr. Glinging, uh truckers hauling livestock and perishable goods face unique challenges on the road.
▶ 0:57:59Obviously, American Farm Bureau has long advocated for targeted flexibilities for these drivers. And in 2020, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration provided some relief for short haulers. So, as we look at opportunities to rightsize uh regulations as part of this package, are there any federal regulations impacting those hauling livestock or perishable agriculture commodities uh that we should examine more closely than others? Yeah, I appreciate the question, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:58:26Uh we do appreciate the the what what the the flexibilities that we've experienced in the past, but taking a look at that 150 mile uh exemption uh when you get out in some rural areas, especially when you're livestock or perishable products. Uh maybe taking a look at at lifting that or expanding that uh further uh would probably be top of mind on on that subject. uh just because when those those cows and crops can't wait and so we need to get those to where they need to go.
▶ 0:58:57Thank you. Yeah. You know, one of one of the big problems that we have in North Carolina is you got all these big trucks on the on the back roads and those roads aren't uh you know really designed or or made for that type of uh that type of traffic. You comment on that any or you Mr. Lindsay? Absolutely can comment on that. We have that problem in a number of states, not just the great state of North Carolina. Being able to move, that's why we propose a GVW increase, going from 80 to 91,000 pounds.
▶ 0:59:25If we can move those heavier loads off of off of uh uh the state and locals onto the interstate uh that was constructed in a way in a manner to handle that better, it's better for the traveling public and it's uh it's better for for from a safety standpoint. For time's sake, I'm going to move quickly to Mr. Elliott. um your organization or given that your organization is a registered safe driver apprenticeship uh program sponsor uh can you talk about your experience with that uh a little bit and then a follow-up to that too.
▶ 0:59:54I'm just curious from your standpoint how big a problem is marijuana use in terms of supply of I I think it's uh unfortunately going to be a bigger and bigger problem as more states move to legalize and and classify it. Um again I think it goes back to testing. Uh I don't think anyone in this room wants somebody behind the wheel who's impaired. Uh we lack current technology comparable to a breathalyzer.
▶ 1:00:20So I think the um the number of incidents or things that are involved with marijuana is much greater than what anyone realizes yet until we have that technology and our officers on the on the road have that technology. Um so I I think it's only going to be get worse. The U registered safe driver apprenticeship program. Can you talk about your experience with that? I I think that uh it's it's a study that is needed.
▶ 1:00:45Um you know, we we had a gap between graduating high school and then three years later so you could enter the trucking industry. So we became the career second choice. Um I think with much like when I was in the military, we operated very large tanks and other equipment and that was done with proper training, proper discipline, proper mentorship, proper equipment and that and with the safety technology um behind it and with proper training I believe that we can do that on our America's highways.
▶ 1:01:13Well, and attracting young people early I think is important too. Having grown up working on a farm during the summers, uh, I was trucking a lot of things probably before I was supposed to. Much much the same. Um, Mr. Scandalia, Mr. Elliott, and Mr.
▶ 1:01:34Pew, each of you addressed the issues with increasing truck size or weight limits in your testimony. Collectively, your organizations represent the drivers and carriers tasked with safety and responsibility responsibly transporting goods.
▶ 1:01:58Majority of the witnesses here today are staunchly opposed to proposals that put lives at risk. Why is it important to reject proposals to increase truck size or weight limits? Um, first of all, um, my colleague here to my left said he has a hard time finding drivers.
▶ 1:02:26If we raise these size and weights, it's going to get even worse. We've, um, interviewed drivers and there's been surveys out there near back to 2022 where truckers said it would make their job 68% more difficult and 87% said it would make the roads less unsafe. So, this is a safety thing as well.
▶ 1:02:46I'd also remind folks that uh earlier this year, there was a hearing here and Home Depot admittedly said that once you increase the rates, it's fine, but we're not going to pay the drivers anymore. Drivers are already not making enough.
▶ 1:02:59Also, there's a huge investment in this equipment that these folks can't afford or what they happens is they buy this equipment and all the equipment that they have just ends up sitting out back somewhere like as a junkyard or Ranking member Norton, we've talked in this hearing room a number of times about some of the statistics as it relates to heavier trucks. Uh the DOT comprehensive truck size and weight limit study as an example.
▶ 1:03:27Um but I'd like to take a step back and and point out that between the teamsters and and Mr. Pew's organization, we represent the vast majority of truck drivers in this country. And so when this subcommittee thinks about truck weight, uh we encourage you to think about the perspective of the actual drivers again represented by us, represented by OIDA, uh who are coming here to tell you that increasing truck weight uh is making our workplaces less safe.
▶ 1:03:54The um the trucking industry is a little divided on this issue. LTL is a is a very small segment who endorses larger uh there are some segments that endorse heavier as an industry. truckload is by far the largest segment and we adamantly oppose both and it comes down to a couple simple things. One, safety. Bigger, heavier, longer does not represent safer in any way.
▶ 1:04:18Um and and the bottom line is our bridges on the 2025 infrastructure report bridges were rated D plus our br C our roads were uh rated a D+. So there's nothing that in conjunction with heavier and longer that does anything to rectify that. Modifying the equipment or replacing the equipment would simply put many many trucking companies, especially small trucking companies out of business.
▶ 1:04:43It's financially uneconomical and the money could be well much better spent on safety technology and things like that that we can put in place today. The truck industry spends, you know, um 1.2 I'm sorry, it's we spent 14 billion on safety enhancements in 2022. So, we're very committed as an industry to safety.
▶ 1:05:03Uh to each of the three of you, uh would average Americans see any benefits from heavier trucks or would they simply pad the profits of a few corporate interests? In my opinion, no. Because we'll have the continued safety numbers and accidents will continue to go up because again, this is a safety thing. These trucks are going to take longer to stop. They're bigger. They're heavier. They're going to tear up the roads worse.
▶ 1:05:34We're going to see our infrastructure destroyed. So, it'll be the opposite effect. And the person who's going to lose the most on this is the American trucker or the small fleet owner. I I personally hauled steel for many years in Ohio. And what would happen was when you would haul permit loads like for Warthingington Steel, they would cut the rate on the permit loads because you were hauling more weight, the stuff paid by the weight. And I think it was said earlier that these trucks are on secondary roads a lot and I understand that.
▶ 1:06:00But part of the reason they're on secondary roads, that's not going to change because that's where they pick up and deliver the freight. So they're still going to be out there on these secondary roads. We're not going to that. I think it would be a great appeal to the uh trial lawyers, more accidents, bigger, heavier trucks. So I which in the end trickles down and cost the consumer to pay every one of those lawsuits. So, no, I do not think it would help.
▶ 1:06:26And from our perspective, whatever benefits are are being touted here will be far outpaced uh by the harms caused to to drivers, the risks to accidents, and the damage to our infrastructure. Gentle lady's time is expired. And Mr. thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for putting together this uh panel that uh can give us some advice and also support what we're trying to do.
▶ 1:06:55Uh so uh Mr. Elliott, how how would how would the creation of a private investorf funded infrastructure federal infrastructure bank um supplement existing funding tools? Can't hear me?
▶ 1:07:13Can you hear me How would uh the creation of a privately funded infrastructure bank in the states each of the states um supplement existing funding tools that would uh provide infrastructure needs to benefit the trucking industry? How would that how would that benefit That's that's a little tough one for me to answer.
▶ 1:07:41Um, I'm not familiar with the particular structure you're speaking of, but I I think as an industry, we support funding. We would support fuel tax increases as long as that money is going directly to the roads and bridges. Well, this would be private money invested. Um, okay. I we're I do not believe in tolling. It's a it's a highly inefficient.
▶ 1:08:03the amount of money that goes for administration versus goes in to the roads is uh very very unequivocable. Um where the current fuel tax system only 1% is going to administration. It's a workable system with 99 cents on every dollar collected going to right where it needs to go. When you privatize that that is that is not the case. I don't remember the exact numbers. I think it's 30 40% or more. I believe it's more but I don't want to misquote. Uh goes to the administration side.
▶ 1:08:33So it we do not consider it to be a logical or viable option for our Mr. Gleing, do you have a a comment about it? Yeah, thanks for the question. I I don't know enough about it to answer, you know, fully. Uh but but certainly uh when when we look at trucking and and getting the goods to where they need to go, we need to explore options.
▶ 1:08:57um with the roads and bridges the way they are, especially in rural areas, um we need to explore options. Thank you. What uh Okay, Mr. Elliot, what what steps do you think Congress should take to ensure federal infrastructure funding maximizes its impact and uh hopefully uh minimizes waste and inefficiencies? Again, I I go back to I think our current fuel tax system.
▶ 1:09:25The system itself is a a good system engineered well. Uh it's time to update it. Um it has not been tied to inflation. It has not been you know we we have the EPA which is mandating better fuel economy which is great but every time we hit that new level we automatically reduce the fuel tax money coming in and we we continue to deplete the highway trust fund. So I think we need to put together some logical mechanisms that keep that in check and keep that in balance.
▶ 1:09:54And obviously, you know, we're running deficient. I mean, the IGA helped to put a lot of money in infrastructure, but it really was helping to offset the money that wasn't in the highway trust fund that should have been there and and the mechanism that should have been repairing those roads and building those bridges and doing those things. So I I think we really need to get back to our core system and fix it. Okay, Mr. combined with an electric vehicle, you know, system because as that continues to grow, we have to look at how we offset that mechanism as well.
▶ 1:10:26Tolls affected by electric vehicles, right? I'm sorry, what? Tolls are paid by electric vehicles. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. On the the states that have toll roads, yes, that would equivalate there. Mr. P, do you have any comments about those that sub subject of Yeah, I would agree 100%. As far as my members in trucking, we support the fuel tax and that's all we would like to see as far as trucking. I agree with what Mr. Elliot said.
▶ 1:10:54It's fair, it's equitable, it works, it's been working for years. We need a fair, equitable raise. If we're going to raise it, it needs to be fair and equitable between cars and trucks. But for far too long, we've seen our highway trust fund depleted with highway beautifification projects and bicycle trails and all these different things like that that don't help transportation or help tracking. I mean, we'd love to see some of this money reallocated to truck parking in the truck parking safety improvement act. I mean, that's highway safety is what we're all here for.
▶ 1:11:23And a good night's rest for an American trucker is probably the number one thing we can do to for safety right off the get-go. But yeah, we do not want tolls. Tolls are unfair. As a small business trucker, I used to truck to the east coast. I spent 11 to12,000 every single solitary year for one truck on tolls and on the east coast. So tolls are by far unfair. I'm sure the GW bridge was paid for many, many moons ago, but you're still paying over $100 to drive across it.
▶ 1:11:54Thank you very much. My time's run out, so I yield back. Miss Sykes, you're Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member uh Norton for holding this hearing today. I think we have already solicited a lot of great information uh that we can consider as we uh continue this work, especially with our reauthorization this year. Um as many of you know, I am a member from Ohio and I always like to talk about that we are the heart of it all. That is our state's motto.
▶ 1:12:21Also, uh we have over 49,000 center lane miles and you can get to a significant part of the United States population in just a day's drive from Ohio. So, we are uh very unique uh in geography and getting across this country and I know that trucking is a major part of moving goods uh across the country uh through our state.
▶ 1:12:44And so I am a strong believer that truck drivers are the lifeblood of our nation's commerce moving these essential goods across the country from coast to coast every day. And I thank them uh for the work and and all of you for the work that you do ensuring that uh these goods can make it to people and we can increase our quality of life.
▶ 1:13:02Uh but certainly trucking is not an easy job and sometimes it's not the most safe job in America and in the first half of 2024 we've seen uh many people killed in traffic crashes involving involving large trucks and although it has declined we certainly have a lot more work to do.
▶ 1:13:21Uh fortunately, policies in the bipartisan infrastructure law continue to provide critical funding to communities across the country and ensure that America's infrastructure remains in working condition to support the needs of the American people. And we have seen this in Ohio's 13th district uh with some resources for local bridge projects, a piece of critical infrastructure in particular that needs to be replaced. Um, but I know that our local governments and sometimes our state governments just don't have the resources to do it on their own.
▶ 1:13:51Uh, Mr. uh, Scandaglia, can you talk to us a little bit more about the bipartisan infrastructure law and how has some of the funding increased trucker safety uh, not only for the drivers but the public at large? Absolutely. Thank you for the question. Um, the and the money we we invested in our infrastructure has been substantial. uh the the projects you mentioned are good examples of that. I believe the bill did somewhere in the area of $40 billion for bridges.
▶ 1:14:20Um so we have made uh substantial progress uh by having a bold bill. Um but unfortunately there there is a lot left to do. Uh we hear a lot in this, you know, the phrase crumbling infrastructure. Um but for our drivers it's crumbling workforces or crumbling workplaces, I'm sorry. Um so there's there's a lot left to do. Uh we've made good progress. But we hope to build on that in the upcoming service reoffer. Thank you so much. And I'd like to draw the committee's attention to the issue of truck size and weight.
▶ 1:14:48And I know we've heard a lot about that from the testimony here. And I have in the past year, well, not even year, a couple of weeks, received a significant amount of outreach spec from local elected officials, specifically resolution from the city of Akran, uh letters from uh Monroe Falls and Macedonia, uh raising concerns about increasing truck limits. And I know this this conversation will be one that we will go back and forth on quite a bit. Um, but I do want to hear a bit more from you, Mr.
▶ 1:15:17Lindsay, about your perspective and why we should increase it. Uh, and then Mr. Scandagly. I know you may have a different perspective and why we should not. So, if we could dig into that a little bit deeper, Mr. Lindseay, and then uh continue. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Miss Sykes. Appreciate the question. Uh, first of all, safety is our number one priority. Um, but we've got to be as efficient as we can moving goods. And when most of most of our trucking happens in a last mile scenario. So we're utilizing every mode of transportation that we can on a CR side.
▶ 1:15:44So Shelly Materials in Ohio, it's impossible for us to do anything else but truck that that last mile to a customer or to a job site, right? And we're we we love that. But leaving a yard with uh with three pallets on a flatbed versus versus four or five depending on the weight makes no sense. So for us, it's efficient. Uh and we also have data we can supply to this committee. We've supplied in the past um that shows adding that six axle uh is is a greater one more point of contact.
▶ 1:16:13So you're spreading you're spreading uh instead of 80,000 over five, we're spreading 91 over six, right? I'm not a mathematician, but but those are better numbers. And the truck shows to stop a foot or two uh sooner than than with a five axle. So safety is our number one concern. We would not be a part of something that was not safe. Thank you.
▶ 1:16:35You know, from our perspective, you know, we look at uh again, I mentioned a little earlier Department of Transportation study uh that found heavier trucks had a 47 to 400% higher crash rate uh than than 80,000lb trucks. Uh and that those trucks also had substantially high out of service violations and brake violation rates. Uh so we think that there is data that demonstrates a real safety problem here.
▶ 1:16:57Uh but again, I think the most important message I I can deliver on truck weight is the perspective of our drivers uh who know what this would look like for them and tell us that they don't want to be put behind the wheel of those vehicles. Thank you. I know I'm out of time for the question, but I'm if I may, if the waiverss I know we have in Ohio, for example, may be helpful and perhaps we can talk offline about whether or not the waiver process is efficient for addressing your needs, Mr. Lindsay, but also keeping folks safe. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
▶ 1:17:26Thank the gentle lady, Mr. Bost. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Pew, I'd like to start by asking you some uh questions if I could about truck parking. You know, obviously uh we're always concerned about wasteful spending here and as as we should be uh when dealing with federal government and and the way we spend the money.
▶ 1:17:45But with regard to truck parking safety improvement act, would you what would you say to lawmakers that are more concerned about the money that's being involved to the parking and what the advantages of spending that money would be in compared to not? Uh thank you for the question and um yes I understand everybody's concerned about spending money. I have a huge concern about money being spent in Washington as well. We want money spent on good things that give us good results.
▶ 1:18:12As I said earlier, if we're really concerned about safety, first thing and most important thing is a driver should have a safe place to rest every single solitary night. We're at a place in this country where there's one safe spot for every 11 trucks. I'm sure Mr. Boss is well aware of the accident that happened just north of his district on I7 last year when a trucker was illegally parked on an exit ramp and was rendered by a Greyhound bus at 3:00 in the morning. Unfortunately, that trucker was left with no choice where to park.
▶ 1:18:42Every day in this country, every single solitary day, truckers are left with the decision of one to either park early and take money away from themselves and their family because they are paid peace work and by the mile to most of them. So they either park early at a safe place or two they try to roll down the road and find a safe spot before they run out of hours because they're governed by hours of service and hope to find a safe spot and then if they don't they're left with two choices.
▶ 1:19:11Either they continue to drive and break hours of service and be in violation and can receive a ticket or two they park in an unsafe place and pray to God that they wake up the next morning without anything happen that buster. So, what we need to do is reallocate some money. We put plenty of money in to enforcement and other things to rate these drivers violations for breaking hours of service. So, I think we could probably reallocate a little bit to give them a safe place to park. Thank you, M. Mr. Ali.
▶ 1:19:40In your testimony, you said that 70% of drivers have had a a violation of service hours because they're searching for parking. And I would like to you if you could expand on that because many people look, you all know that I was born and raised in the trucking business and the hours of service. I I've said this so many times. We don't want to go back to the 1970s and 1980s where you can use three log books and drive 24 hours a day. We don't want to go down that path.
▶ 1:20:11But with the with the electronic log books now you all of a sudden if you don't have a truck spot parking spot you're going to violate your hours of service. Can you kind of explain that to the people? It it's very much like this countdown clock. That is exactly what the drivers the stress that they are under behind the wheel trying to find a parking spot watching that yellow and watching that turn red and having to make decisions and and they're it's very stressful. It's a stressful job. You want them to rest.
▶ 1:20:38You want you want a well-rested driver on the road next to you and your family. You do not want a driver who's stressed out and that and we create an environment that by no one's fault, you know, it it it happens, but we need to increase the flexibility for the drivers and that they're professional drivers. If they need 15 minutes to get to a safe spot versus make a decision to park somewhere, I would rather them take that 15 minutes. I think everyone would, you know, so the system needs to be looked at there. But again, we have to go back to the root cause of we build warehouses.
▶ 1:21:08We don't buy parking. We we continue to expand. We don't put parking. You drive down ma most major highways. You see rest area after rest area closed to save money. So we we we're our own worst enemies. We take away the parking. We should be funding those getting them back open and that because you know it's not popular in the local municipalities to build truck parking, but our highway infrastructure hasn't has a lot of opportunities that we could very quickly reutilize in that. All right. I I want, Mr.
▶ 1:21:35Elliott, if you would, I'm going to stay with you on this, but I you you brought it up a little bit. All of the states now that are legalizing marijuana and and the issue that we deal with in the trucking industry, and it's not just a trucking industry, it's heavy equipment, it's pilots, it's it's all, you know, alcohol.
▶ 1:21:54We do have a way to say, "Okay, you're in we we breathalyzer tests." the the the marijuana situation is you you smoke one joint and you're going to be popping positive for 30 days and and we don't have the way to actually keep it controlled and safe because we don't have the proper testing. Can you expand on the that issue as well, please? Uh in my 12 seconds. Yes. As m as much as the we the only tool we have right now that's better than what we have isolical testing.
▶ 1:22:25uh we're allowed to use it on one hand, but we're hiding the results from our our our our own industry and from the public and and and from the f the federal government and we we need to remove that roadblock as quickly as possible if we want to make the road safer. We need to quit talking about it and we need to move forward. It's been 10 years. Thank you. And my time expired. I yield back. Thank the gentleman. Uh Mr. Figures recognized. Mr. Elliott, that was the most efficient use of 12 seconds.
▶ 1:22:52I'm over here that I have uh that I have ever seen. We need to get you on a football field for the two-minute drill. Um well, first of all, I know a few of you have served in the military, so thank you guys for your service to this country, and thank you guys for your service to this economy um and the professions that you guys have taken up. My brother uh is a trucker, so I I know firsthand uh well, secondhand um I guess u some of the struggles and some of the issues facing your industry. So, I'm really thankful for you guys being here uh to discuss them.
▶ 1:23:22if we could go down the line real quick because I most of you guys sound like pretty well all of you guys pretty sound like no nonsense straightforward call it how you see it type guys. Um as we're approaching this reauthorization if there's one thing that you say guys we got to fix this and we got to fix it this year. What is it? I know I'm asking you to pick your favorite kid right now but I'm gonna I'm gonna break your rule and go with two. Okay.
▶ 1:23:48truck parking and uh the drug testing I think are two are the two biggest must dos now that can be Just a few truck parking and driver training. The funding certainty, predictable, dependable, real funding certainty. It affects everybody that's on this panel. And then how can we do things more efficiently?
▶ 1:24:16If it's proper truck parking, if it's increases in GVW, absolutely. It starts with proper funding and adequate funding with all resources available. the cliff we're facing. We can't start turning down options before we've gotten there. You can't turn down a job you hadn't been offered yet, right? It's going to take everything to get us there. I I would say adequate funding as well and and whatever mechanisms it takes to get there.
▶ 1:24:40Uh obviously rural areas are are crumbling quite dramatically and and to get funding for those roads, bridges, uh obviously increased weights. We can talk about that later, but um funding. Yeah, I'll repeat some of my my panelist perspectives. I think uh new looks at at how we do driver training and and partner with organizations like ourselves as well as addressing the persistent problems in the in the highway trust fund. All right. And thank you guys.
▶ 1:25:08The um the driver shortage issue is certainly one um that rings true uh for my district especially when we look at the the ability of this industry to create jobs, right? And these are um they certainly can be very good paying jobs to help people uh elevate out of poverty. I come from a district that's one of the poorest in this country. Individual median income in my district is just above $30,000 um per person.
▶ 1:25:33Um certainly one of the poorest districts uh here uh largely minority district uh well about 50/50 but in those impoverished areas um there's an increase in minority representation there. And I know uh that in the state of Alabama, a lot of minority uh particularly African-Americans uh choose uh the trucking route, but we're still having challenges recruiting them into the industry and and and retaining them in the industry. So, um in our rural areas specifically, what can we do better? What can we do better to drive people into your industry?
▶ 1:26:03What are the barriers that we can remove specifically for you guys to be able to get into those rural areas where the need for jobs are are more pressing in a lot of cases? Um, just given the high levels of poverty that we have and the and the the roadmap that this industry can provide for people out of poverty, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to go back to parking. Um, again, even in urban areas, uh, the parking situation with trucks is even worse.
▶ 1:26:28A lot of drivers will try to get their truck close to home to be able to go home and that and that's a very big challenge. you have to park an hour outside of the metro, a metropolitan area and that and that on the truck parking area when you look at trying to increase the amount of drivers and uh that one of the biggest demographics that is growing is women in trucking.
▶ 1:26:47Um and you know what women need and deserve just like everyone does but even more so well lit safe parking you know for their comfort to be able to find the industry more attractive and to feel good. I mean nobody wants to go into an industry where you feel unsafe. Okay, Mr. uh Pew, and I want to jump down uh to the end to Mr. Scand uh Scandaglio. But you, Mr. Pew first. Same question. Yeah. Um I think uh it's a multiplude things. Uh parking is one of the problems.
▶ 1:27:17I I do want to make it clear there's not a short there's a shortage of experienced drivers out here because we have a turnover problem. There's 4 to 500,000 new CDLs issued in this country every year. So there's plenty of people's coming. They're just not staying. We got over 90% turnover rate. So we can't have a shortage if we got 90% turnover rate in this industry. Problem is they don't stay because one parking like you said trying to figure out where they're going to sleep every night. Who wants to do that? Pay. Average trucker like $50,000 or less. They work 60 70 hours a week. They're exempt from overtime.
▶ 1:27:48That's like 14 $15 an hour job to be at home over 300 nights away from your family. All these things we now we're talking about raising weights and making the job tougher but not paying them. We need to pay these people. And then we don't train them. There's a place in Missouri get seated on 24 hours. How's that safe? We need to make the entry level driver training program much more aggressive with real hours and real time behind the wheel so these people are trained and trained correctly to be professional.
▶ 1:28:16And until we take the time to invest in our drivers and all these things, we are going to continue to lose people from this industry. Thank you. I see my time is expired. Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Rose Rouser and uh ranking member Nordon and our witness today. Thank you for this hearing and opportunity to discuss how this committee can improve and enhance the lives of the hardworking truckers.
▶ 1:28:42Uh uh these are the Americans that are backbone of our interstate commerce and both literally and metaphorically uh the driving force of Americans uh economic might. American truckers represent in many ways the American dream. the opportunity to be your own boss to uh an emphasis on on self-reliance, a shot at owning your own business and hitting the wide open American road. However, this way of life has been threatened by overregulation, traffic congestion, no place to park, and skyrocketing operational costs.
▶ 1:29:11In Utah, these issues are facing critical critical moment as our state moves forward with an innovative and transformative inland port. This project will cement Utah's historic uh role as a crossroads of the west by streamlining the mo of the movement of goods by integrating rail, truck, and air freight while reducing reliance on co coastal ports. However, the project will increase freight volume uh highway traffic and demand for parking spaces.
▶ 1:29:37to support projects like this um in Utah and across the country, we need to get re reauthorization of our nation's uh surface transportation programs right and truckers will be the key to our success. Mr. Pew, uh how many like many small businesses owners um AC around the country, I know truckers are being crushed by federal regulations. What is the I think you might have mentioned before, what is the number one reform that will maintain uh trucking as a pathway to the American dream?
▶ 1:30:07I I apologize. What was the I didn't hear your complete question. What what if uh what would be the number one reform that will that will maintain trucking as a pathway to the American dream? Um I think the one the number one thing would be start paying truckers again. They're exempt from overtime since 1938. Uh Congressman Van Drew introduced the Got Trucker Act to way take that away. Truckers were paid for all their time.
▶ 1:30:34Average long haul trucker gives away 20 to 30 hours a week sitting at a shipper or receiver waiting to be loaded or unloaded and never most of them never receive anything for that. I mean, who wants to give away their time? I I ask that all the time. Do you want to go to work and sit around for three hours before you start getting paid? I doubt it. Uh, you mentioned I I think I heard this right. Did you say 90% retention? What what was the number you percentage of over 90% retention in the trucking industry? mainly the long haul.
▶ 1:31:04If you look at LTL and private fleets, they have a very low, but in the long haul sector, it's about a 90 a little over 90% turnover rate in trucking. And that's the problem. They're coming in, but they're not staying because of all the ill treatment and things that had go on in this industry. I mean, trucking is a great occupation. I love it. Trucking did every I mean, I'm here because of trucking, but it's changed so much and it's getting harder and tougher and drivers are getting so tired of nobody listening to them. like this parking deal.
▶ 1:31:34This is the third time it's been through Congress and we haven't got it. And everybody knows we need it. It's like, let's just have the intestinal fortitude to do it. I have one other question. We have time here. Um um I've been alarmed as I've talked with truckers about the rapid freight uh fraud that's growing in my state and across the country. In your opinion, uh how can this committee best respond to confront this issue? Mr. Pew? Yeah, this whole freight fraud needs attack for many things.
▶ 1:32:02It's it exploded after CO and what we've seen is both brokers have had their identity stolen, truckers are getting our identity stolen, freights being stolen. I mean, the first and foremost is ranking member Norton has this bill out of the household goods. We need to get that passed because it'll require brokers to have a physical address which trucking truckers companies have had to have forever. So we know where these people are because it seems on the broker side at least these people are a lot of foreign entities.
▶ 1:32:30And then the other thing I would add it gives um FMCSA some teeth to go after these people where they can file charges and stuff and civil penalties to these folks which they lost I think in 2019. So both of those things would be the first and foremost. But FBI, FMCSA, FMCSA needs to start watching the NCCD be better, which is the national consumer complaint database.
▶ 1:32:55Our members send these complaints there and no, it seems like that's where all complaints go to die on this broker fraud. This is a massive problem in the industry. Only have a few seconds left, Miss M Lindsay. Hope you can get can get this in. How how how can federal workforce development programs like the LCDL test waiverss for veterans and other uh apprenticeship initiatives be leveraged to address the the truckers workers uh shortage? Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you for your question.
▶ 1:33:23We are using every tool we have in creating some if it's a second chance program or hire a veteran program, whatever it is to try to get qualified drivers in the door. We've heard a lot about all these drivers and I don't doubt my friends up here. I'm telling you today, we have a thousand openings and these are jobs that pay and they're really not jobs. Shouldn't use the word jobs. You use the word career, right? These are these are well- paid, big-time benefits. Um, so I think they need to call us and we need to hire some of these folks, right?
▶ 1:33:50So, my one of my big takeaways today, other than we need some truck parking, is that I need to get their cards and they can come to work at CR because it's a great place to be and we want to put them to work. every program at our disposal, sir, we we are trying to put in place to try to increase that pool of drivers. Okay. Thank you so much. Uh yield back. Miss Brownley, you're right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh thank you to the witnesses for uh being here. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:34:20Scandaglia, it's a nice name. Um, we've talked a lot about, um, a lot of people have mentioned areas where we can improve safety, particularly truck parking has been talked a lot about in this hearing today.
▶ 1:34:34Um, so, but from a driver perspective, what what can Congress do um, uh, to help ensure Well, I I think one of the the most significant things that Congress can do is ensure that we have the ability to operate uh in safe workplaces. Uh making sure that our drivers operate over bridges that aren't going to collapse uh over roads that are uh in good shape.
▶ 1:35:01Um you know, we again this is the the roads the interstates of this country are are where our members come to work every day. uh and making sure that they can get from point A to point B safely uh is our is our top priority. Uh and I think one of the most substantial things we can do in that regard is make sure that their workplaces are safe. Great. Thank you for that. And and just to follow up on, you know, driver shortages and careers, what what else can Congress uh do to ensure um careers and trucking are more desirable?
▶ 1:35:32Well, I I think one of the major things that Congress can do uh again in conjunction with uh entities who are offering driver training is making sure that when drivers enter the industry, they're entering the industry in a way uh that is going to ensure that this is a career for them. Um unfortunately, there are there are people who go to fly by night CDL schools, they get their CDL in six weeks, they show up to work, and it turns out they can't back into a dock. Uh that's a problem.
▶ 1:36:01and that person is not likely to stay in the industry. So from Congress's perspective, I think there are things that can be done in in the training sense. Unfortunately, at least for Congress, a piece of what we need here uh is is private sector response. Um we need trucking companies to not look at employees as uh folks to just turn through the meat grinder and then we will replace them yet again when they quit. I appreciate Mr. Lindsay's comment, careers, not jobs. So we 100% agree in that regard.
▶ 1:36:32Very good. And um one last question I think um to you again is can you share more about the predatory truck leasing problem uh that you referenced in your testimony and do you have any suggestions again for how Congress can help combat that? Yeah, absolutely. And again this this actually gets back to what I was just discussing about how people enter the industry. Um unfortunately there is a phenomenon in which individuals are enticed to come work for companies.
▶ 1:37:00They're told uh you know show up uh you'll get your own truck uh you'll be able to make all this money. Uh and in some cases uh they are induced into agreements uh that are unfair uh that those folks don't fully understand when they ink their name on the paper.
▶ 1:37:17Uh and there are unfortunately incidences of people who have fallen victim to predatory truck leases uh who end up working weeks and having a zero dollar paycheck because when they've paid the company back for the lease on the truck and the gas and the preferred maintenance provider and whatever it may be uh their paycheck is $0. Um so we were proud to serve on the uh truck leasing task force committee that the department put together. Uh that report came out uh very recently uh and we strongly endorsed the recommendations of that report. Thank you.
▶ 1:37:47And you you mentioned uh also about uh predatory training um and folks getting licenses and really can't drive a truck. Are those accredited so that people know where to go and where they're going to get the right training? It can be very difficult for someone looking to enter the industry. Um you know certainly uh motor carrier maintains a list of of its registered trained providers.
▶ 1:38:12Um, but if you don't know anything about the trucking industry and you're trying to figure out how to become a truck driver, uh, you may just show up at a school in your neighborhood or nearby that suggest that it advertises CDL training. Uh, and unfortunately, if if you chose choose wrong, uh, you could end up going to a CDL school that costs $10,000, doesn't impart actual driving skill, uh, and then has no pathway to to a real job. Uh, we think that we offer a very good training program.
▶ 1:38:41We're not the only one, but we like ours. Uh, but making sure that uh folks get pushed through the right channels uh so both they are safe drivers, good drivers, and that they stick around for a career is extremely important. Is there any way to improve? You know, it sounds like this is is an issue. Um, and sounds like it's an area for improvement, whether there's even a rating system of some sort so that people will get directed to to the best.
▶ 1:39:11Yeah, absolutely. Motor, like I said, motor carrier captures some of this information already. Um, but unfortunately, their resources are are perpetually stretched thin, so their ability to uh, you know, deal with a report of a of a unsafe or predatory school is is limited. Um, but I I think all extremely important conversations to have going into surface. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I read through the testimony of of most of you, so I want to touch on a few things. Some of it I just want to comment.
▶ 1:39:40Some of it I want to I want to ask you questions of and I want to get started with infrastructure. Uh, Mr. Blessing, you uh you put in your testimony about the IGA and I kind of want to take a little issue with it. You say you continue to support the infrastructure investment and jobs act uh for its essential investments in our national in our nation's infrastructure. Sir, you realize that the IJA less than 50% of that went to fix roads and bridges. The rest of it was for a green new scam.
▶ 1:40:09Not to mention that that it didn't even address the real problem that's sitting out there with our with our drivers. And uh you also you also talked about more weight. And here's where I've got my question for you for hauling, which in in essence, you'd have to add an additional axle, which uh how do truckers get paid for the freight they haul for the farmers? Is it by the mile, by the load, or by the ton weight? Uh thanks for the question.
▶ 1:40:39Typically, uh when we're talking grain, um that's that's by the bushel. And so so it's by whatever is put onto the truck. Correct. Well, and and there there in lies my problem because that third axle is going to drag. You're not going to get any tear tire wear on it. You're going to get less fuel mileage. It's going to cost more money for the trucker to haul the products down the road. Not your products. And I'm Hey, I'm a firm believer we can haul more weight. Trucks are safer going down the road today than they ever were.
▶ 1:41:10But if you're going to haul it and the shippers are not going to pay more, you're just going to put more truckers out of business. the only people that are going to benefit are the shippers. And so I encourage you, please, when you're out there talking about, make sure that you distinguish that y'all get paid by the ton weight mile. Um, Mr. Elliott, I'm I'm I'm glad to see the push back on the new engine emissions standards that are being crammed down our throats. And for those of you who don't know, I'm in the trucking business, but these emissions are being crammed.
▶ 1:41:39And you don't have to look very far back to see that the last time that they that we had engine emissions forced on us and new engine changes that we lost a very big engine manufacturer called Caterpillar that went out of business. I do want to make an additional comment for you on on Federal Highway Trust. Y'all are all talking about raising fuel taxes.
▶ 1:42:01Man, I hope the motoring public out there understands we pay feet tax on every unit that we buy, but we also buy pay feet tax throughout the life of that truck on tires. We buy tags annually, which continually go up. We pay federal highway use tax that has gone up over and over over my lifetime. So, we pay more fuel tax or more tax for roads that has continuously increased over the years.
▶ 1:42:29And what most people don't know, and with every time these f these engines change, we get less fuel mileage. I remember back in the '9s, I was getting 8 miles to the gallon. It went down to to below five with new engine changes. So, we're effectively paying more into the federal highway trust form fund every time they make a change on us. You also mentioned the automatic breaking. Here's my question.
▶ 1:42:54Have any of your members complained about ghosting with these automatic brakes? Does you understand what are they the ghost effect where these these the automatic braking just automatically jams the truck for no reason? Um I I can't I can't say our members on a personal experience. We've had it happen. I mean I've had it happen to my car. Um, I will say I I would not buy a new truck without AEB.
▶ 1:43:25When I look at when I look at the great overall benefit is I would say this though and I think this goes to your your driver retention too. These are not perfected as someone who has over 75 of them with a number of them that are sitting on the back back there because you can't get the parts to fix them and you can't drive the truck without it if you put it on there.
▶ 1:43:44But my drivers have complained so much because when you're going down the road doing 60 65 miles an hour and bam, you start you almost hit the windshield, that'll make you think twice and you didn't do anything except come up on a road sign or construction sign or a bridge. I I agree. But I have to say I still endorse them because I also find that drivers don't want to run into your office and say, "Woo, that thing saved my butt today." Mr. Chairman, I I I want to I want to make note that 98% of the trucking companies out there are 10 trucks or less.
▶ 1:44:13They're mostly generational. And I haven't seen any talk about the number one rising issue out there that that is most prevalent on most trucking companies, and that's insurance cost going up across the board. And the reason they're doing that is because we've got runaway lawsuits out there, these nuclear verdicts, these out of control trial lawyers. No wonder nobody wants to get into this business. When you ride down the road and you see billboard after billboard of trial lawyers up there say big truck, big money.
▶ 1:44:42We also have a congestion problem. Getting back to those roads in the JA truck drivers lose on average 435 hours 435,000 hours a year. It's costing billions for us to sit on the highway in traffic jams. And why? because the DOS in our states can't get permitted because it takes too darn long to sit there and wait on somebody up here to give them one federal decision.
▶ 1:45:12On average, it takes over 10 years to to get new roads and bridges built out there. So, I think when you're out there talking, focus on those things as well. With that, Mr. Chairman, I hear back. Mr. Nadler, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Elliot, as you know, there have been discussions in the past about increasing the length of twin 28T trailers, adding 5 ft to each trailer. It's my understanding that these double 33- ft trailers were opposed by a number of large and small trucking companies.
▶ 1:45:40These trucking companies argued that because the double 33s have 24% greater cubic capacity, truckload carriers would be forced by shippers to replace their fleet of single 53 ft trailers with the double 33- ft trailers. Mr. Elliot, can you please explain TCA's current position on double33s and how they would impact the truckload industry? Uh, as as an organization, we are opposed to them um for a number of reasons. While their industry is divided, we do have sectors that support them.
▶ 1:46:10Um, the safety ramifications are large. Um, the amount of number the percentage of accidents involved with double trailers is larger than the single 53 ft trailers. The um out of service rate is also additionally higher. We do not have parking infrastructure for our current trailer system, let alone to go doubles everywhere. It is less uh less drivers have the endorsement.
▶ 1:46:34It is less safe for the drivers obviously, especially in bad weather to be able to also to be able to hook and unhook one of those trailers some by themselves upon a delivery. Customers are not set up for them. Um and as well it just it the cost to retrofit or to switch over what has become our industry standard over the last 2530 years would put a significant number of companies out of business. So as as an industry we are adamantly opposed to it.
▶ 1:47:01The coalition against bigger trucks law enforcement board made up of retired law enforcement leaders with over a century of combined experience recently warned Congress about the increasing dangers posed by heavier and longer trucks. They highlighted a 50.8% 8% increase in fatal crashes involving large trucks over the last decade and pointed to data showing that occupants of smaller vehicles far the worst in these crises in these crashes regardless of fault. Mr.
▶ 1:47:28Chairman, I request unanimous consent to enter into the record the letter that the coalition against bigger trucks law enforcement board sent to this committee in January as well as the coalition's policy memo on truck size. Without objection. Thank you, Mr. Pew. Your testimony strongly opposed increasing truck weight limits, citing serious safety concerns such as increased breaking distances, higher risks of overturning, and greater strain on braking systems.
▶ 1:47:54From your perspective as a representative of small and independent drivers, uh, truckers I should say, why do you believe that increasing truck weights would make our roads more dangerous? And what specific safety risks are being overlooked by proponents of heavier trucks? Yes. Um, first and foremost, I go to the drivers themselves. There's nobody who cares more about highway safety than truckers. And as I stated earlier, 68% of them think it'll make their jobs much more difficult.
▶ 1:48:2285 84% think heavier trucks will make the roads unsafe. 85% think longer trucks will make the roads even more unsafe. I think truckers probably know the best about highway safety more than anyone. So that's the first and foremost be a huge added cost to this that small business truckers probably won't be able to handle. Um I remind folks that I hauled steel I c or I would gross out always before I cubed out hauling steel and stuff. I've hauled these heavier loads.
▶ 1:48:51They are much there does take more skill does take much more responsibility. You have to be much more on your game. And and then the final straw is nobody wants to pay these people more to do this. I mean, we've heard it said in this room that they don't they you're going to haul this more weight and have to take this stress within without any more pay. Mr.
▶ 1:49:12Pew, your testimony also emphasizes that in addition to reducing safety, increasing the size and weight of large trucks could adversely impact small trucking businesses. Can you explain how small businesses could be impacted by increases to truck size and weight? Yeah, small business trucking. I mean, trucking in general is a very, very tight profit margin business. Just like farming, there's not a lot of extra money out there. I tell people that it's a penny saved industry, not a penny made.
▶ 1:49:41And and like I said, every there's costs all the time. By doing this, you already have invested 150, $200,000 in a piece of equipment. And now all of a sudden, if we change the rule, because we saw this when we went to 53 foot trailers, we saw this when we went from 73 to 80 to 80 all at once. This $200,000 piece of equipment you have is either obsolete.
▶ 1:50:03So you have to go out here invest in more expensive equipment or you spend 10, 20, $30,000 trying to add extra axles in these things that sound so easy to get yourself to where you can haul these loads. cuz whether the shippers or the receivers need these trucks or not, they're going to think they do. That's what happened when we went to 53 ft. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:50:25I also just want to point out briefly that uh increasing truck weights or lengths would uh change the economics and switch more freight from uh rail to trucks. And of course, we know that rails are much less polluting and much more energy efficient. and uh this would be exactly against the interests of the uh of the country. I thank you and I yield back. Mr.
▶ 1:50:53Johnson, I'm always a little beused, Mr. Chairman. I I sometimes we say that we're in a posttruth world. Uh and listen, I get it. Uh politics and policy can be kind of a difficult business these days, but I I still find myself a little dumbfounded by how much mischaracterization has gone on. uh lots of rhetoric. So, but let's dive into the facts because at some point this should still be a town where we govern on the basis of facts. Mr. Lindsay, I want to come to you first. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:51:20Pew indicated that nobody nobody would pay more uh to drivers for hauling more weight. Uh let's get to specifics. How do you all compensate drivers? Uh thank you, sir, for the question. Appreciate it. Thank you for your leadership last Congress on on this bill. That made sense. Uh we compensate a number of different ways. Um we pay uh by the ton. Um and so wait a second. You pay on the basis of weight? Yes sir, we do.
▶ 1:51:49When drivers carry more weight, they get paid more. Yes, sir. Okay. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead. No, no, I think that was the answer to your question. Uh we we pay more. Uh we also where we use outside uh subcontractors and not internal. Um we also uh do RFPs on a regular basis so that if someone wanted to go out and invest in that sixth axle so that they could have a greater return on that trip.
▶ 1:52:15Uh we're also uh believe in this program to the point that we would let them repric uh in in a given window and we will also uh participate in upfront cost for that for that axle and for that equipment investment. So Mr. Lindsay just staying with you for right now. The coalition against bigger trucks uh published a report last week. It was a a work of fiction that would have made Stephen King proud, I think. Uh, it talked about the real damage that would be done to local bridges uh and local roads. Mr.
▶ 1:52:44Lindsay, I don't want to test you too much on a quiz about the 916 proposal that I've been working on the last couple of years, but does the pilot program that I've introduced, does that impose any requirements on local governments? It doesn't impose. They still have jurisdiction over those local roadways. Yes, sir. So, this bill has no impact on local roads and bridges. No, sir.
▶ 1:53:08As a matter of fact, and I can speak to Texas specifically, we're running 84,000 uh off the interstate in Texas, and we are dodging every way in the world to stay off the interstate to haul that extra that extra 4,000 lbs. So, what we're doing is driving past daycarees, uh past churches, past schools instead of getting on an interstate and taking a shorter route. So, let's say we've got a state who has believed some of the concerns that Mr. Nadler has raised today about safety.
▶ 1:53:34Uh not that are supported by the record, but but let's say that they believe him nonetheless. Is is there any state DOT is there any state legislature under my bill that would be required to uh adopt 916? Uh no, sir. It's an opt-in program only. Okay. And uh it's a pilot program, right? I mean narrowly tailored to allow us to gain more data about what the reality is with higher weights and an additional axle. Is my understanding about that right? Yes sir.
▶ 1:54:03Then we process the data and we make a decision from there. So Mr. Lindsay, I just got to ask you if this is not actually imposing uh any requirements or higher weights on any local bridge or local road, what would the point be of that report released last week? You know, that's that's a that's a really good question.
▶ 1:54:27In my mind, it's taking those heavier loads off of those local roads and local bridges that may be in in worse disrepair quite frankly than an interstate. Uh here's what I think I know. I think I know that when you're when you're holding a weak hand of cards, when the data that you believe doesn't actually win the victory, what you do is you try to you try to erect a straw man. You try to tell people that local bridges are going to be damaged by a piece of legislation when in fact that is provably demonstrably false.
▶ 1:54:57It is an argument being advanced by people who know that they don't have the data to win the argument on a narrow pilot program state opt-in focused just on the interstate. Let's turn toward interotal shift because we've had a boogeyman erected there as well. Uh Mr. Lindsay, are you aware of how much uh reports have shown would actually happen in the interotal shift space? Um, we are a class 3 rail provider on our own, right?
▶ 1:55:23So, the notion that we're going to use less rail or this would would allow us to use rail is absolutely false. As a matter of fact, the rail companies now turn down business from us because they can't service us. I I asked one of my colleagues last week what they thought the interotal shift of this bill would be. They said, gosh, I don't know. I mean, I've heard people concerned about it. 5 or 10%. Not 10%, not 5%, not 1%. The reports say that the motor shift would be 34%.
▶ 1:55:52Reasonable people can disagree on policy, but damn it, reasonable people should have to tell the truth about the real impacts of the legislative proposals before us. With that, Mr. Chair, I would yield back. Miss Hall. Thank you. Um, so this has been a really great panel to listen to.
▶ 1:56:15Uh, you know, the trucking industry employs one in 16 Oregonians and my son's a teamster. So, what you do is really important and uh certainly our office has been focused on how we get more rest areas uh for for truckers.
▶ 1:56:35It's absolutely critical and I've talked to women in the trucking industry and there aren't a lot and women that would like to be in the trucking industry but it's not safe because there's not a safe place for them to be. So happy to work with any of you on on that. Um the industry lost 114,000 drivers over the last decade and needs to hire 1.1 million more in the next 10 years.
▶ 1:57:05Um, so and there's uh nearly three times as many commercial driver's license holders as there are trucking jobs. So what I want to touch on is and uh Mr. uh for you to start. Why are so many drivers leaving? Um the annual turnover at large truckload carriers is 80 to 90%.
▶ 1:57:34And at teamster carriers it's just 10 to 15%. So how does it why do you feel like that plays out differently? Thank you for the question. What has been apparent for a long time is that work in the trucking industry like work in most industries behaves as we would expect a labor market to behave.
▶ 1:57:56Uh and so when uh drivers are not adequately compensated uh when uh the benefits that are provided to them are not sufficient for a driver to say this is a career that I want. Uh we can't be surprised that that driver doesn't stay. Um there's all there's a number of other pieces that are part of this as well. You know, frustrations with things you've heard about today uh like truck parking uh issues uh like being induced into predatory truck leases is a problem.
▶ 1:58:25Uh so there's a lot of things that may result in someone not staying in the industry. Uh but I think for our members, we we don't see that. Uh our members come to these jobs that pay them the wages that they're seeking. Uh and they frequently tend to stay there for their careers. Uh and so when we look at the rest of the industry, uh who says, you know, we we can't hire anyone, we can't find anyone, broadly speaking, uh that's not the experience that we're having at our carriers. Great. Thank you.
▶ 1:58:54Um, I also believe that we need to expose more young people to trades in high schools. When we cut because of budget cuts in the 90s in Oregon, we cut CTE. The average age of an apprentice was 19. It is now 27 because we put people either to college or just to go out on their own. So, I would love to work with anyone on that. And then Mr.
▶ 1:59:22Elliot, um, coming back to, uh, impairment testing, you know, we have people, as you said, smoked a joint 25 days ago, they're going to test positive, whereas somebody that went out and had on a on a bender for the weekend and slept four hours is more of an endanger because of the impairment. They have a bad reaction to their cold medicine, they're tired, whatever is happening.
▶ 1:59:49How do we focus on making sure that we're testing for impairment and what role do you think the federal government should have in You know, I think it's uh it's very difficult to real time test. I mean, in a perfect world, that that would be the great answer.
▶ 2:00:07Um I think the immediate need in our industry and not just our industry but on the roads period with the marijuana um popularity or reclassification and adoption everywhere um is the technology to give uh officers and whether it be DOT officers at scales whether it be police officers and that uh the ability to have an equivalent type technology to a breathalyzer for marijuana.
▶ 2:00:29I'm not a scientist, so I don't know where they're at in that in that process, but I really think that is something that is going to be needed much sooner than later with the way that our individual states are legalizing and adopting this. Yeah.
▶ 2:00:44And I and I hear this from lots and lots of industries where they're saying, "I don't want to exclude this part of my workforce when really they're not coming in impaired, but our testing has not kept up with the reality." So, thank you for speaking to that and I yield my time, Mr. Babin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you u witnesses for being here for your expert testimony. Uh Mr.
▶ 2:01:11Pew, uh you know even better than I do that federal mandate on ELDs or electronic logging devices was the most expensive mandate that Congress has ever forced onto the trucking industry. Just from hearing your testimony today, it's obvious to me that there are two issues uh that are at play. First, the ELD makers can self-certify and leave truckers out to dry when those devices don't hold up.
▶ 2:01:39And second, that components for these trackers are made around the world and oftentimes in adversarial countries. What's more is that these ELDs are hardwired into the truck itself. They can shut the truck down, start it up, even make it veer off course. Taken together, that paints a pretty grim picture of the level of trust that we have for these devices themselves. Mr. Pew, truck drivers are some of the most patriotic Americans that I know.
▶ 2:02:08Uh, in fact, I used to be a truck driver myself. But as we saw in New Orleans on New Year's Eve, any vehicle can become a mass casualty weapon. Uh would you support a pause on the ability of ELDs to have such control over a vehicle until we get these security issues ironed out? And have I exaggerated with some of these or these just uh rumors that we're hearing about about these things? Are they true? Are they not?
▶ 2:02:37Answer the question about a pause on ELDs. Yeah, when it comes to ELDs, when they made the mandate, uh, they did FMCSA wanted made it so there self-certification. What the problem is, we've seen, and you're correct, this was one of the most expensive mandates ever on trucking. What's happened, especially for small business and even fleets, they've bought these things, and then they find out later on that they didn't meet certification, FMCSA gets rid of them.
▶ 2:03:06So now a trucker who's invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars in one of these units is having to buy another one. I have members who've bought three or four of these now through the thing. So it's time that FMCSA does start um inspecting and certifying these things themselves to make sure they do what they're supposed to do 110%.
▶ 2:03:25The other real issue and there was even a report from FBI that said some of the componentry and components in these things are made as you said in foreign nations, China, Russia, places like that and there is a very huge security because they are a lot of them connected. There are some that can work on a cell phone and like that but there are a lot of them that are connected right to the ECM of the truck. So that person knows where those trucks are, can know where certain shipments are. I mean, we know trucks haul everything from freaking bombs to water.
▶ 2:03:55So, who knows what they'd have on and they can find out if they can't control the vehicle, they will at least know where the vehicle is. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Pew. I appreciate it. Now, Mr. Lindsay, good to see you, too. Uh, regulatory compliance, as you know, is a massive burden on the trucking industry as a whole. What suggestions can you share from the perspective of the shippers on how Congress can rightsize the regulatory burden while still maintaining safety standards? Yes, sir.
▶ 2:04:25Uh Dr. Babin, thank you for the question. Nice to see you. Nice to see you as well. Uh very simply, we stated earlier in our testimony, um GVW increase, we're not talking about bigger trucks. We're not talking about longer trucks. We're simply talking about increasing the gross vehicle weight from 80,000 to 91,000 and adding that sixth axle. That's the regulatory hurdle that we have that would make us more efficient. It would eliminate 20% of our trips.
▶ 2:04:52We've also uh we have data that we've supplied this committee in the past and we'll do so again that we can do that safer. We're currently doing it in Canada now with some fantastic union drivers uh in Canada that are operating those units now. Everybody seems very happy about those. So, some of the data that's been cited uh relative to safety here uh is out of date. It cites one state, there were no fatalities.
▶ 2:05:14Uh we will supply new data to this committee as we did last Congress when this bill passed this committee on a bipartisan basis that shows we can operate safely increasing 11,000 pounds. Okay. Thank you very much. And real quickly back to Mr. Pew, the same question to you. What suggestions can you share from the perspective of independent drivers on how Congress can rightsize the regulatory burden while maintaining our safety standards?
▶ 2:05:39Yeah, I mean we need to train drivers better 100% to get them so they're better and safer on the highways and I think we need to make the barrier of entry into trucking a little bit higher to to where all these people aren't motor can come in motor carriers as well. We've seen an influx especially since co of a lot of people becoming motor carriers who don't really understand the business and we don't even know where they're coming from.
▶ 2:06:03I also would add that I think that DOT or FMCSA needs to do some research and studies on non-domicile CDLs because it seems to open the doors to flood the gates from foreign folks coming in here and from what enforcement tells us some of them can't even speak English. show and nobody seems to know who's getting these non non-domicile cos. We've looked in this ourselves. Thank you very much.
▶ 2:06:28I guess they didn't hear that President Trump signed an executive order making English the official language here. Thank you. I'll yield back. Miss P. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, you know, we agree that the trucking industry is a critical component of our supply chain as Americans depend absolutely on the service of truck drivers.
▶ 2:06:57But the supply chain chain is only reliable when we have an experienced, well-trained workforce and an industry that prizes uh safe safely Unfortunately, the fatal truck uh crashes that are a sad reality right now for in my state on one on I80, I'm sorry, the international highway 80 and Route 208
▶ 2:07:28and other highways around our district. So, I'm interested in in ways that we can make sure that drivers are better prepared and safer on the road. With that being said, let me ask Mr. Scandelia. Um, did I say that correctly? Scandalia. Scandalia. Okay, thank you for that.
▶ 2:07:48Um, you state that training leads uh led by Teamsters, local union training uh centers must prepare students to go to work rather than simply achieve lensure. Can you explain on can you expand on that please and and ex also provide us how additional training improves safety for drivers and others on the road? Absolutely.
▶ 2:08:14Uh so as my testimony stated uh the schools that the teamsters run are focused on the idea of not just making sure that someone can pass their exams and be handed a license at the end of the day. Um, we are very focused on the idea that when you go through our schools, when you graduate, not only have you accomplished whatever the federal government has told you you have to accomplish, but in fact, you are ready to be a truck driver and be a safe truck driver. Um, unfortunately, that is not how a lot of schools in this country run.
▶ 2:08:44uh we have the effectively diploma mills in a lot of places where uh they'll rush you through as as fast as humanly possible uh and they don't really care what happens to you uh once you're out and once you've paid them. Uh so we're focused on graduating good drivers uh graduating drivers who are prepared for a job uh and then connecting those drivers with jobs upon graduation.
▶ 2:09:08uh we have extremely high graduation rates compared to uh other entities in the space uh and we feel confident that the drivers that we put on the road uh do an excellent job of keeping both themselves and the general public safe. Thank you. Thank you for that. Mr. Pew.
▶ 2:09:23Um, in your testimony, you highlighted, um, implementation of new entrylevel driver uh, training requirements as an important step in ensuring new drivers are better prepared for SA and safer for the road for for the roads. Can you please sh uh, share how drivers preparedness changed after those requirements were implemented? Yes, thank you for your question.
▶ 2:09:52And yeah, drivers need to be prepared. I mean, we train to win. I mean, that's why we have the greatest armed forces in the nation because we train them to win and train them for everything. We train pilots, we train all these people, but for trucking, it's just a matter of you pass a test and and you you get a CDL and you can go anywhere in this country. And you know, you take a kid who's 21 years old who's never been out of Florida and all of a sudden he's heading to the Rocky Mountains in January. We're probably setting ourselves up for disaster.
▶ 2:10:21During the entry- level driver train that was passed in, I think 2015, we wanted regular out behind the wheel hours required and that got cut out at the last minute. And you know, we talk about that for the 18 to 21 20 year old drivers and they need mandatory. Well, so does somebody who's 45 and never drove a truck. I mean, they could have drove a Prius their whole life or something. So, I mean, highway safety, it all comes back to training and investing these people.
▶ 2:10:49And if we have to train, yeah, there's going to be an added expense there. But that expense, it should be well worth it because we hear all the time that just like the ELD, that expense was going to save all these lives. We know training saves lives. There's no doubt about it. Thank you. Thank you so very much. I know that we only have like 30 seconds. So, I'm going to ask you, Mr.
▶ 2:11:10Pew, once again, what specific um uh areas should the committee consider for the upcoming surface uh transportation bill to further improve upon these safety uh gains that you've talked about? Real quickly, we have like 15 seconds. Parking. Okay. Thank you. That was fast enough. Thank you so very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Weed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to all of our witnesses here today.
▶ 2:11:38Our topic is one that is near and dear to my heart and critically important to the state of Wisconsin, which has over 57,000 trucking companies, primarily small, locallyowned businesses, and uh 77% of communities that exclusively rely on to move their goods. My business relied on trucking day in and day out to facilitate the delivery of fuel and merchandise.
▶ 2:12:00And I understand the important role that trucking plays in maintaining our supply chains and ensuring the timely delivery of a wide variety of materials and products. In Wisconsin, there are many examples where where state legal overweight logging trucks must exit the interstate and travel on state and local roads. Meanwhile, the only thing that changes is the designation of the road as an interstate.
▶ 2:12:24drivers encounter local two-way traffic, school zones, churches, and driveways, creating a a higher risk of accidents. Uh, Mr. Lindseay, could you speak more about how the GVW pilot program would work to resolve issues like that? Uh, yes, sir. Thank you for your question. Um, the majority of our states allow, to your point, more than 80,000 today, just obviously not on the interstate. They're on state and local roads, right? So, they're traveling through neighborhoods, past churches, past schools.
▶ 2:12:55Our bill simply says, or our pilot program simply says it's not a it's not a bigger truck. It's not a longer truck. We just want to move as much traffic as we can as possible onto the interstate system and off of those state and local roads. That is a much safer uh scenario for for the traveling public and for those drivers. So, from from a construction standpoint, why is the interstate system better suited to handle vehicles over 80,000 lbs? It should be designed. Now, every DOT is a little bit different, right?
▶ 2:13:23But there are certain standards that that the feds have mandated over the years. It should be designed to uh to carry uh increased weights and and handle those loads. Mr. Ging, farmers face unique challenges on our roadways uh between hauling perishable goods and transporting livestock. Can you detail how federal motor carrier rule rules account for these unique challenges? Yeah, certainly appreciate the question.
▶ 2:13:50When when you're hauling uh parishial products, you need to get get there and and typically um when you look at at those those animals on that trailer, the rules need to to be flexible in order to get them to the end goal of uh wherever they need to go. And when you look at rural areas, uh you have to travel a long ways to get them there.
▶ 2:14:14uh especially when you get out from metropolitan areas, there's a long ways in between cities and and places where they need to go. Are there any identified challenges Congress should, you know, examine as we look ahead to the upcoming, you know, the surface transportation reauthorization? Well, certainly when you look at the 150 miles, you know, expanding that would be top of mind on on my list of things um to try and help alleviate that hours of service issue. Okay, great. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 2:14:44Pew. What what challenges from your perspective do do small and independent truckers, uh, which is a lot of our our truckers obviously. Um, what do they face in complying with federal Yeah, first and foremost is a safe place to park every night. You know, because they are governed by hours of service. As Mr. Elliott said, they feel like they're playing beat the clock nowadays with the ELD and no flexibility in hours of service.
▶ 2:15:13Um, and that's all trucking. Um, I know it's very stressful and and strenuous on them. Um, but we also have to be careful with flexibility because sometimes with flexibility becomes people take advantage of their time and stuff waiting to load and unload. So, that's a very fine line that we have to be very careful with. Um, uh, this uh, fraud that's out there right now. Small business carriers are really having a lot of trouble with that. No one seems to be listening.
▶ 2:15:40Um, we need to get this Norton homes bill passed as soon as possible to try to slow some of the fraud down that they're seeing as well. And as far as employee drivers, again, I would go back to pay and making less than a living wage for most of the long haul segment of trucking, working 60, 70 hours a week, and not receiving What as far as could you discuss legislative efforts this committee could consider to combat freight fraud? Yeah. Yes.
▶ 2:16:09Uh, Rang Member Norton has a bill, the Household um, Movers Act, I think is what it's called. But what it does is it would give FMCSA the ability to go back and file civil penalties to brokers or that they don't have now. Also, it would um allow make brokers have a physical address, something that trucking companies have had for a long time.
▶ 2:16:35And so that way if someone a broker does this illegally, they at least know where to find them because a lot of this is coming from people overseas who are afraid. Right. Thank you. I yield back. Miss Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think uh Norton Homes bill is the household goods shipping customer bill. I'm a co-sponsor of that and I agree with you. I think we need to get it passed.
▶ 2:16:59And just kind of building on that, something I've been concerned about is combating organized retail crime. Uh we we see so much of that. It's not just a one-off stealing a magazine anymore. It's a major organized uh crime and the money is used for all kinds of nefarious reasons. Um I've got legislation on that, but I've also as the ranking member of the railroad subcommittee seen that it's cargo crime as well.
▶ 2:17:27Could you address how that impacts the trucking industry or if it does and what we might do to help give more authority to regulatory body to help you deal with that, Mr. Pew or anybody, Mr. Lindsay? Obviously, thank you, ma'am. And we're concerned about anything that affects our 50,000 employees, right? And you mentioned retail crime that makes the cost of living go up for everybody. So, we worry about that. From a rail standpoint, uh, telematics is really important for us.
▶ 2:17:56And so being able to to track our shipments. Now the benefit that we have, we we're sending a lot of cement and a lot of rock and sand. And most folks aren't in the market to steal a a rail card full of rock, right? They don't have much to do with it after they fix their potholes in their driveway. So we don't face the same challenge that most retailers do. But I think uh instituting telematics uh and then everything we can do uh from this body to make what we're transporting more efficient, right? And I would go back to a GVW bill.
▶ 2:18:24If we're eliminating 20% of the of of our trucks on the road to move the same number of loads, we're cutting down those trips. We make things more efficient. So, does the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration have authority now to help you with that telematics you were talking about? You know, ma'am, I'm not an expert on that. I can get an answer for you though, Mr. Pew. Did you? Yeah. I mean, this is affecting brokers. This is affecting truckers and small business carriers, everybody.
▶ 2:18:49my members if one of the on and what we're seeing is either the broker's identity is being stolen. Some of major major companies that we've heard of, they're tendering a load. These people steal their identity, tender the load to the trucker, the trucker delivers load, sends the paperwork back into that person that they think's the legit and then they disappear and never get paid. They turn and we see that happening. We see car carriers identity stolen.
▶ 2:19:15They go pick up a load for this supposed this carrier with a stolen identity. They steal the freight. Then it comes back on one of our members or another trucking companies their insurance and they didn't even haul a load or know anything about it. What FMCSA needs to do it besides with the bill and I appreciate you sponsoring, but they need to start paying attention to the national consumer complaint database. That's where they tell us to file these complaints when we reach out to our members.
▶ 2:19:41And like I said earlier, it seems to be the place where all things go to die because whether it's this or a motor carrier making a driver do something wrong or or whatever the problem that we send into there, nobody ever gets back to our members. And we also feel that they probably should change the name because a lot of truckers, including myself, I didn't even know this existed until I went in the office at OIDA in 2018.
▶ 2:20:05And I never would have thought that the national consumer complaint database is where a trucker or a trucking company goes or a broker to um report this kind of fraud. Thank you. Well, as we look at this issue, we need to be sure that we include um retailers, trains, trucks, everybody that's being hit by this organized crime. So, thank you for that. Uh we talked a lot about the supply chain. I want to talk about the people who make it happen, the truckers themselves.
▶ 2:20:35Some of this has come up, but Mr. Scandaglio, could you tell us about current regulations like hours of service, how they help address driver fatigue, and other things that make it difficult maybe to talk somebody into being a trucker or or staying a trucker once they get there so that they know that they're safe, protected, have good benefits. Absolutely.
▶ 2:20:58I think the comment was made earlier that it's it's important that on hours of service, you know, we don't go back to the the 80s and 90s or or later than that when when we had a wild west of fatigue protections. Um so absolutely hours of service uh are are a bedrock for for our folks uh who don't you should not be driving 14, 18, 20 hours a day. It's it's it's unsafe. Um and I think everyone more or less agrees on that.
▶ 2:21:25Um, but being able to explain to our drivers, uh, these are the federal regulations, vis how how long you can drive, uh, based on how long we think we you can drive safely. Uh, and if an employer attempts to coersse you to drive beyond those limits in a way that violates regulation, we can protect you and I think that's a comfort for our drivers. Okay. Well, thank you. I yield back. Mr. Stalber, thank you very much. Uh, Mr. blessing.
▶ 2:21:53It's uh great to have a fellow motan before the committee again and thank you for your testimony, your commitment to keeping America fed. And I would also like to welcome your wife here today who's in the audience. It's great to have you here, ma'am. Uh you know, in your testimony, you mentioned that a 50-mi detour just to transport grain to a local elevator, it's not just an inconvenience, it's a direct hit to a farmer's bottom line. And I know you are familiar with the highway 23 coalition.
▶ 2:22:22Motans are advocating for a four-lane highway from I90 in southwest Minnesota to I35 in northeast Minnesota. Can you elaborate on what this would mean for the transport uh transportation of agricultural commodities and livestock that is important to small towns and rural areas in our greater Minnesota? Absolutely. Thank you, Congressman.
▶ 2:22:45Um when you look at the economic activity uh that could occur from a a project like that in rural areas as well as getting those products to the market uh efficiency especially in peak times of the year when you're in agriculture, you have to go and and improving the the infrastructure to to get that done. Um, this would just be one example of that.
▶ 2:23:10And and not to mention the economic activity that that creates when you're not taking the main roads you're you're getting through um without having to go through like the Twin Cities for instance to get there. Exactly. And uh helps the rural areas and would be an overall improvement to to our rural economy in Minnesota. I know starting from northeast Minnesota rather than going southbound on 35VE and across 94 uh right through the Minneapolis St.
▶ 2:23:37Paul area, you can go in a southwest location or direction rather and get right down to southern Minnesota uh to those farmers as well. That is a I think as the as the Farm Bureau president u I think that that's the advocacy that needs to continue. It's going to help your bottom line and uh I'm in full support of it uh as you know, but it's it's going to help you greatly. I appreciate that, Mr. Pew.
▶ 2:24:03Uh many consider it members the backbone of the trucking industry representing over 150,000 drivers in all 50 states who own and operate more than 240,000 trucks. I think we would all agree your members are vital to our supply chain and the economy. And I I would be remiss if I didn't say my chief of staff's father is an independent driver. Like so many others across the country, they are a testament to hard work and perseverance.
▶ 2:24:30And like others, they are an example of a true small business working hard to make ends meet. Mr. Pier, I understand that a survey you conducted found that it would be more difficult for your members to recruit and retain drivers if bigger trucks are allowed. Two questions. Can you explain why this would be the case? And can you explain your concerns about the financial impacts increased truck weights would have on your members? Yes. And thank you.
▶ 2:24:59and and and I appreciate that and thanks to your chief of staff's father for being a trucker. That's good. I hope he's a member of OI day. That's right. And if not, time to call me. But with that being said, yes, our members are concerned and we did do a survey. There was a survey in 2022 that drive 68% of truckers felt that it would be more difficult to to drive or to handle longer or heavier trucks. First and foremost, these are the people doing it.
▶ 2:25:28Also, yes, these are harder to drive. They you have to pay better attention. There's many more takes longer to stop. Um, as I said in earlier testimony, I've done this personally um for 20ome years, hard steel in Ohio on overweight permits. And you and what happens constantly is you make this investment, you buy these permits, you buy this extra equipment, and you end up making less money because it takes more fuel.
▶ 2:25:57There's more wear and tear on your equipment, your tires, your brakes, everything when you haul longer and heavier. And then, as I said before, a lot of times what happens, the companies cut the rate on you for lesser for these permit loads. That's the real story here. And that's the real world. I've done it and seen it myself and have many members who have too. 80,000 has worked and you can say it's outdated, but it's worked. Our highways were designed for it.
▶ 2:26:23And if you go to the state of Michigan, even in Ohio, I'm not picking on them, but go to the state of Michigan and look at their roads from heavier trucks and how bad the infrastructure is there. Thank you. Thank you very much. And with my uh 15 seconds left, uh Mr. Lindseay, I appreciate your testimony. I appreciate all your testimony. Mr. Lindseay, you had uh made some comments earlier, but I just want to change gears for two seconds now. Yes, sir. Uh you both you and I are sports fans. Who's your favorite former NHL hockey player?
▶ 2:26:54Uh that would be the gentleman from I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And uh thank you to everybody on the panel for being here. Uh Mr. Lindsay, I did have a question for I saw that you were an NBA scout for a number of years.
▶ 2:27:12Um, so my uh 11-year-old son um loves playing basketball and I asked him in the car the other day, I'm like, "So, where where do you think you want to live when you grow up?" And he's like, "Well, dad, it depends where I get drafted." So, that's a really good answer to that question to be honest. Yeah. Um, and as fortune would have it, I was taking him to a game in Detroit a year or two ago, and we're driving down the freeway, and he asked me, he's like, "Dad, why are why are so many people injured here?" here.
▶ 2:27:38And I'm like, "Well, what are you talking about?" And he's like, "Well, every quarter mile on the road, there's a giant billboard with a sign that says injured, a phone number, and somebody's picture on it." And I'm like, "Well, it's not from playing football, right?" Um, so I guess you know a lot of this concern about lawsuit fraud and everything else or the the staged accident problem that we're witnessing, the the absolutely critical cost of insurance that then really works its way down to the to the
▶ 2:28:09industry that you all work in and represent. Do you have any insight for us as to what steps we can take? Uh if it's an enforcement issue, if it's a change in law, what statutoily and what would be your recommendation for how we attack that problem? Thank Thank you for the question and I'd love to meet your son. We can talk hoops. We can talk about the Pistons who are actually doing something this year, which is exciting, right? Yeah. Not setting the losing streak record like they did last year. They won themselves out of a good pick. So that that's the that's a downside to winning games. Anyway, thank thank you for your question.
▶ 2:28:39It's it's a it's a problem, right? It it is an absolute epidemic that's gone on and for all of us up here and we can disagree on a few things as we have today and and you know I don't think they're right about a few things they've said. We can disagree with that but one thing we can agree on is that the latigious environment that we're in makes things expensive for all of us. And ultimately uh the the folks on the end of those trucks, the folks that are paying for that for that cargo and that bottle of shampoo or or whatever these guys are hauling are the ones that are going to pay for that, right?
▶ 2:29:06And so, um, we're a part of a number of of lawsuit reform programs kind of state by state. We decided to attack it state by state because things seem to move a little slower here than they do in some state capitals. And so, I think continuing the conversation is is probably the most important thing we can do. And then looking at a surface bill for some language that makes sense to protect uh drivers, to protect construction companies, right, that that are that are building things. Absolutely. Thank you.
▶ 2:29:32you and I know and you made the point all of us are paying for it whether it's in the professional aspect whether it's and and then that comes down into every single thing we purchase and so much you know arrives now through that transportation network all the way down to the delivery at your home that adds to the cost of all this uh adding up so I appreciate that sir and uh Mr. Australia. Glad to see uh you're here from Michigan, of course. It's great to have you here in our nation's capital. And um wanted to ask you a question, too.
▶ 2:29:59Um so, right now, uh I know that there's some within federal law the the age limit for um uh truck drivers. There's, you know, an idea that we could lower that age down to uh the age of adulthood at 18 instead of 21. Um right now, you could go from your where you live in Taylor, right? uh or where your uh um facility is located to the uh Toledo uh Jeep plant and you could get there in less than an hour, right?
▶ 2:30:26But if you wanted to go all the way up to um Antonagen to Trident Maritime Systems, I looked them up. They uh manufacture uh naval equipment, uh it would take you about 10 hours to get there. One would be entirely within the state of Michigan. The other would be just over across the border into Ohio.
▶ 2:30:46Does it make any plausible sense why a young man or a young woman of 18, 19, 20 years old could drive all the way over the Meno Bridge and over to Antonagen and back uh but not to Toledo where they could almost ride their bike that far? Absolutely not. Okay. And that that's part of the frustration with the current system. It it it it lacks logic. Yeah. Okay. Um and then Mr. Pew, I know uh you got your start uh in the military, as I understand, and then uh transitioned into transportation from there.
▶ 2:31:15Um, were you trained in the military on uh truck driving? Is that how you got into this or uh were you trained uh in another way? Yeah, I was uh well, I guess I would say I was trained on the farm first because I grew up on a farm in southern Ohio. Good training. So, I had a little trucking, but yeah, I was a 88 Mike in the United States Army. I'm proud of it. Were you we were trained? Yes. So, would you agree with me that the training that you received from the military, well, not exactly, you know, uh representative is a good training.
▶ 2:31:42So if you do come out of the military and perhaps you're not 21 yet, you should be capable of of safely operating a vehicle on our nation's system. I would agree that you're trained how to drive the truck and operate the equipment. I do agree do disagree with the fact that driving a truck in the military is just like driving a truck in civilian world because there's you have a lot more oversight. You have people over you. You a lot of times traveling convoys. You're loading the same thing all the like I've hauled fuel and out tanks. That's all I ever hauled.
▶ 2:32:12you come into the military like I went into the flatb I'm hauling steel I'm hauling beams hauling all kinds of stuff so I think there needs to be some more remedial training sure before we turn people loose and as far as if they're under 21 I think there's other discussions we can have such as air mile radius and stuff that would probably be more safer for highways okay thank you all very much appreciate it thank you Mr. Shrie uh thank you Mr. Chairman, uh, uh, gentlemen, witnesses, uh, Jefferson Shrieve.
▶ 2:32:42I'm from Indianapolis. Uh, so I represent a district that holds itself out as the crossroads of America. Uh, I've got I7, I65, I I69, uh, I74 running through the district. Uh, and a big FedEx air air cargo hub. So, we we we move a lot of we move a lot of traffic uh, uh, through the district, through the state.
▶ 2:33:04uh in my visits with groups like the national truck uh uh tank truck carriers and ATA and whatnot, the issue that keeps coming back up is truck parking. And others have asked and talked about it today, but I don't think anyone's asked who who your drivers would sort of hold out as as being what which states are have have gotten that right.
▶ 2:33:29If you're if if you're moving uh equipment across I70, which states have more or less figured out how to provide for the the the parking that the industry needs to enable the drivers to be compliant while while applying their profession because that's something that in the here and now as we rebuild I7 from Indianapolis over to the Ohio state line and are
▶ 2:34:00uh reworking our truck stops and figuring out from a zoning and use standpoint uh what can or can't go in in these areas relative to the commercial uh development along along the interstate exits. how we're going to figure out to provide for the need for for parking for these for all this truck traffic that moves through our state that underpins a distribution-based economy.
▶ 2:34:29So, who's who's doing it right? Mr. Pew probably probably I'm sorry, Mr. Elliott, Mr. Pew, but probably Mr. Pew in terms of the the voice of your your drivers if you could. It's okay. Um, yeah, not totally prepared to answer that question.
▶ 2:34:46I can tell you, uh, being from the region, uh, Michigan based, uh, Indiana has made some very good improvements and I think is on on the right track and positive, um, I don't have an answer state by state, but it's something I could probably go back and survey and get for you. Okay. So, you're seeing you're seeing headway in improvements in the Chicagoland area, the region northwest Indiana. Yeah. Which isn't the part that I represent. Um, but that area is that area is tough.
▶ 2:35:15Gary is not ide not ideal. Okay. Mr. Pew, uh, your drivers, your your members, how do they feel? Who's doing it? Who's doing it right? Um, I would say along Interstate 70, um, Indiana has done a good job. I've noticed it myself traveling from I'm from Ohio and traveling to Kansas City area to for work for Oida back and forth. But um Indiana's done a good job. Ohio's been doing a good job.
▶ 2:35:43I know the governor of Ohio is really fired up and wanting to improve parking. He's realizing that if he wants to if the state of Ohio wants to stay a viable trade state, we need better parking. We need trucks. Um, I think a lot of it comes down to educating people on, you know, if you want your Amazon Prime package, you're going to have to have trucks. It's just the way it is. But, you know, and my hats off.
▶ 2:36:04I think a lot of the state DOS in the last three or four years have really switched their focus and are starting to realize that parking is a big issue and a big problem. Fair to characterize Indiana is doing a better job than Illinois? I I beg your pardon? Is it fair to characterize Indiana as doing a better job in providing for truck parking than I'll take that. I would say that they are to a point. Yeah.
▶ 2:36:33You know, I mean, there's still stretches of interstate in Illinois between St. Louis and Effingham. It's still pretty lonely. There's a few truck stops, but and there's a long stretches there. I would c the thing that does frustrate truckers and all those states that we're talking about in Ohio are the little signs that they put out telling them how many spaces they are because truckers we hear this all the time that about how these telematics are so great but truckers already know where there's no parking.
▶ 2:37:00They feel like that money would have been better spent if you'd have just put some more parking spots out there. All right. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Mr. Taylor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. and uh ranking member Sykes. Um and thank you also to our witnesses for your uh your your testimony today and thank you to the truck drivers that are here. Um I know how important your job is and I appreciate you very much. Um came from the concrete business to uh Washington DC.
▶ 2:37:29So I I also appreciate the the gentlemen that are trying to make a living in the in the trucking business as well. So this is especially salient hearing for me and I'm glad to be here. Um, I represent a very rural district uh in Ohio with uh roads are in desperate need of repair. Uh, there are many uh safety officials in my district have written to me about the concerns uh that increasing truck weight limits may have on roads. Um, Mr.
▶ 2:37:54Lindsay, based on your experience and research, can you explain in a little bit further detail what increasing uh truck weight limits would mean in the long run for local roads? Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Taylor. I appreciate the question. Um, first of all, let me say that we're not proposing bigger trucks. We're not proposing longer trucks. We've heard that 40 or 50 times since we've been sitting here today. That's not the case. Our pilot program, which will be an optin for the state of Ohio, which means they don't have to do it, right?
▶ 2:38:23Columbus can decide, takes the interstate weight from 80 to 91,000. Most roads in our country today that are off network, off the interstate currently have more weight than that on them today. they are operating on today and many with less than six axles, many with five axles at 90 to 92 to 95,000 lbs. And I don't hear drivers complaining about that.
▶ 2:38:42So, we believe that taking those loads, it wouldn't be every load, but it would be a number of loads, say 20% of the loads, if we can move those onto the interstate and off those state and local roads, your local officials are going to be happy with that. Okay? Now, my my public school math uh indicates to me that uh if you added the extra axle, you would on an 18-wheeler, you would increase braking surface area by 22%. If you went from 80,000 to 91,000, you'd increase the load by about 14%.
▶ 2:39:12Is that right? Yes, sir. I I have the same public school, China Spring, Texas, math. So, I I'm going to trust you when you said that. So, I don't have a calculator. They already bulldozed my public school, so yours is probably better. Um, so for for as far as safety concerns, have they done actual studies as there's been some testimony about distances after those numbers, is there proof that there it takes longer to stop?
▶ 2:39:38No sir, it actually stops shorter with that six axle and we will again provide that data to this committee. We are operating under those standards in in Canada right now uh in a safe manner and again safety is our number one priority, right? We have our brand on the side of our doors and that means a lot to us. And the Shelly brand in Ohio and and whatever the the uh you know the the Thompson brand in North Carolina, it means a lot to our folks. We're not going to do anything that's going to risk our drivers being safe or the general public being safe. Right.
▶ 2:40:06I think anybody's in the trucking business very long understands that even if you don't care about safety, you find out very quickly it's if you care about the bottom line, you practice safety. Yes, sir. On the issue of safety, it being so important, if I could just by a show of hands, um, who on the panel would favor a requirement that, uh, CDL drivers be able to read and speak English? Just raise your hand if you agree with that requirement. Wonderful. Thank you very much. American businesses have always been the best innovators, not the federal government.
▶ 2:40:36Uh, with that in mind, over the past decade, companies have vastly improved both trucking technology and fuel efficiency. Unfortunately, the previous administration has distorted the market with the EPA's deacto electric truck mandate. I fully support Administrator Zeldon's decision to reconsider this rule, and I'm confident the EPA will corre correct this flawed rule. Mr. Elliot, in your testimony, you mentioned that electric trucks make only point make up only 01% of the commercial truck population.
▶ 2:41:03Can you highlight how this deacto electric truck mandate, should it remain in effect, uh will impact the trucking industry? Quite simply, it would be devastating. Um, we have one in our fleet due to a customer demand. Um, the vehicle was almost three and a half times the price of an associated diesel truck. Uh, your average customer and which goes down to the consumer does not want to pay that. Um, you know, I I have a friend who's headed a large um publicly traded company.
▶ 2:41:33The company itself is valued at 8 billion on the stock market. to convert to electric would cost $21 billion. So quite simply in today's market uh it is not financially feasible for companies to do it. Uh the technology is not there.
▶ 2:41:49As an industry, we support clean technology and that, but we want it to come on a timeline that is financially viable for our customer or our companies and our customers and something that is proven and safe and works and that we are we are running with scissors right now to try to meet artificial timelines. Thank you. And uh thank you to the whole panel. Chairman, I yield back. Mr. Nails, thank you, Mr. Chairman. A very important very important hearing today.
▶ 2:42:19It's good to see all the witnesses. I I'm going to discuss for a few moments some of the priorities I've been working on for quite some time. Uh Mr. Chairman, I'd like to submit for the record Landline Magazine's February 2025 edition. If you need a quick summary from our nation's truckers priorities, I recommend you go to page 48 and enjoy it. Page 48, Landline Magazine, all the priorities. So, without objection. Thank you so very much.
▶ 2:42:49Uh, next week I'm going to plan on introducing reintroducing the Trucker Bathroom Access Act with Congresswoman Hulahan. The bill is supported by a wide variety of truckers, unions, trade associations, and members of this committee.
▶ 2:43:04Last Congress, it was co-sponsored by six Democrats, including Congressman Papus, Congresswoman Schultton, Representatives Babin, my good buddy right here, Van Drew, and representing several members on this committee. It is ripe for a markup and I will be filing it as an amendment to the surface reauthorization bill.
▶ 2:43:27Uh, so we will be getting a vote on this thing one way or the other, we'll get a vote on I also want to reiterate my support for the work Mr. Boss has done on the truck parking and I believe that truck parking safety improvement act needs to be included in any soft surface reauthorization bill and is critical for safety. We simply can't put truckers parked on the side of the road. We've talked about it here for the last couple of hours. It's unfair to them. It's unfair to the public.
▶ 2:43:56We can find money for all other things. We find a lot of ways to waste a lot of money around here in this town. We should be able to find funding for our truck parking. Like to take a moment uh to formally formally attack and express my disdain for the awful policy of truck limiters. Speed limiters hurt our small and independent own truckers.
▶ 2:44:21Truck drivers find themselves unable to maintain pace with other vehicles and it will likely manifest itself with risky driving. While they might be good for the large fleets, I'm adamantly opposed. This committee should focus on ways to help small businesses, not multinational corporations. I have truckers coming in and out of my office all day long, in and out of my office. And the consensus is these speed limiters are horrible, horrible idea.
▶ 2:44:50They are anti-American big brother nonsense. Like to pivot to some questions here. Mr. Scandal, thank you for being here, my friend. It's good to see you. Usually, you know, when we've been talking, we discuss rail safety, right? But today, it's we talk a little bit about truckers. The Teamsters endorse the Trucker Bathroom Access Act. Is that correct? Correct. It is.
▶ 2:45:14We've heard today about the issue of increased truck weight as it directly impacts truck drivers, but drivers are not the only ones who are familiar with the danger of heavier trucks. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I'd also like to enter into the record a letter from the Teamsters Law Enforcement League raising their concerns. Without objection. Thank you, sir. As a former law enforcement officer, I share their viewpoint. Uh, Mr. Skinley, those who might be less familiar, uh, thank you very much.
▶ 2:45:43Why is it why is it these law police officers have such a strong position on this? Well, thank you very much and great to see you, Congressman. Um, we're proud to represent uh about 50,000 members in law enforcement, many of them who are sworn police. Uh, and they have the the rather unfortunate responsibility of being the first responders uh following uh truck crashes, including unfortunately tragic truck crashes. Um, and and they're responsible for for the aftermath of those in incidents.
▶ 2:46:10uh and they report to us uh that in incidents involving uh heavier uh longer trucks uh they observe more severe accidents uh and so not only on the behalf of our drivers but on the behalf of the experiences of of teams law enforcement members we raise that concern very well I I noticed that even in a highway and transit hearing there are rail issues to discuss and you specifically raised the CDL training for rail workers.
▶ 2:46:38Can you explain what the problem is there and and how is this subcommittee how does this subcommittee play a role in rail safety? Well, there's always an opportunity for rail safety, Congressman. Um, but a little known fact is uh we're proud to represent the nation's maintenance of way workers on the railroads. Uh, and somewhere in the order of 75% of maintenance of way workers who repair track, who repair structures have to hold the CDL to operate specialized construction vehicles. Um, and so we've done a lot of talking today about generalized trained receive your CDL.
▶ 2:47:09We also feel that there are some gaps as it relates to those specialized construction rail vehicles that we look forward to working with Congress on in surface. Thank you. I appreciate all your testimony. I yield back. Mr. Vandrew, thank you, Chair. I appreciate all of you. This is a long morning. Lots of questions, lots of statements. Some of it we've done before, but we got to keep trying, man. Like, you know, we've danced this dance many times before. If you're here for a few years, you know it.
▶ 2:47:38And I'm going to state the obvious, and you've heard it before. Trucking really is the heartbeat of America. In an era when we're trying to save money, we should never hurt the people who work so damn hard to make sure we get the goods that we need. Whether the weather condition, whether the conditions in general, they're out there. They're working. They're breaking their back. As we look forward to this reauthorization, it's critical that we advance measures that also promote truckers safety and their job security.
▶ 2:48:08It matters and it's got to remain a top priority. As we see more and more interest in autonomous truck technology, we as a committee must ensure that it is done safely, that it's done properly, that it is done with the truckers in mind, and without doing undue harm to the workforce. This technology is still new. It's very new and it's largely untested, particularly in trucks.
▶ 2:48:34As it develops, there must be human beings behind the wheel to ensure that nothing fails and that nobody gets hurt. Over the past decade, we've lost 114,000 drivers from the workforce. As we all know, it's hard to recruit them. It's a hard job. People don't want to work that hard anymore. Nobody wants to talk about that. But if you notice in general jobs that are real hard and you really got to break your back, it's hard.
▶ 2:49:00It doesn't matter the trades, even though the fact that pays good money, whatever it wherever it is, it's not easy. Rec recruiting, retaining qualified drivers must be part of any serious transportation policy. We can't overlook it. We can't forget about it. We can't pretend it's not there.
▶ 2:49:19And despite the industry-wide push for recruitment, we've recently heard major voices from the tech, automotive, and freight industries renewing their push for the rapid deployment of autonomous trucks. I'm not saying there's no place for them, but I'm saying we got to really watch what we're doing and be careful here. Mr. Pew, thank you for being here again today.
▶ 2:49:44We have danced this dance, but what are you hearing from your stakeholders as far as the impact of autonomous vehicles right now? Yeah, members have a lot of concern. Um, you know, of course they're concerned about their jobs, first and foremost, I would say, but I mean, I think we can all probably agree that this technologies down the road and and I and I believe that it'll probably come. I don't think it's going to take all trucking jobs by any means.
▶ 2:50:11I think there's certain things it can probably do, but I still think it's a long way. The bigger concerns come down to all these questions that never get answered. For one, it's they have self-reporting. So that we find that kind of scary that, you know, they can only only have to report what they want to report. So I'm sure they're reporting the good things and not the bad. That's usually how you would handle that kind of situation.
▶ 2:50:34There's also huge concerns in cyber security that are being asked because the componentry of some of these things come from again countries who don't really like us. So they would probably like to be able to take over a truck. I've seen a special in 60 minutes where they could take over a minivan with a laptop and make it start and stop and do all these things. So that's a huge concern in trucking. There's also May I just stop you for a moment? I because I appreciate that that cyber security is a big deal. I'm from the state of New Jersey.
▶ 2:51:04A lot of trucks go through New Jersey, right? But beside that, they just put the easy pass system out to bid. A lot of people don't know this. It's not only New Jersey. The company that got the bid, which and they weren't even the low bidder. The company that they got the bid is a company from Singapore. And on their board was a direct connect, an individual on their board. he had to take himself off the board. But there are other connects there as well with the communist Chinese.
▶ 2:51:33So we're allowing them to control as you talked about it's happening in your industry with the laptops happening on it's a lot of our toll roads across the country now. I don't know what the hell is wrong with us as a Congress that we can't see that this is a problem. This shouldn't be allowed to happen in your example or even in the example of that easy pass bill. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yes, you're exactly correct. That's a huge huge concern.
▶ 2:51:58And again, the other concern is what do these trucks do in an accident situation such as say there's a school bus or some family of car with kids on the side. Do they hit the car? Do they go in a ditch? Do they run over the people? I imagine these things are probably programmed at least to um go for the path of least resistance so they get the m least amount of harm.
▶ 2:52:21Um, we also find it troubling that we've asked and asked and asked for either myself or other members who have trucking experience to come take a ride one of these vehicles and it's we still have never been taken up on that. Unbelievable. If it's good, why don't they want you on a ride? Exactly. Okay. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Mr. McDow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today. Uh, before we get into the questioning, Mr.
▶ 2:52:49Lindsay, I learned today that that you were an NBA scout and I I've got to say you must not have been a good one because as as the one of the premier athletes in North Carolina, I would be playing for the Utah Jazz or the Charlotte Hornets, not here in Congress. So, I just wanted to get that out there. Um, but Mr.
▶ 2:53:08Elliot, I last week we were home in the district and I I met with um about a half dozen different trucking companies in my district and one of the same things came up with every different one of them. Uh and so I want to ask you a question, yes or no. Uh, and I'll point out that from Murphy to Manio in North Carolina, that's from tip to tip, side to side in North Carolina, is 545 miles.
▶ 2:53:34From Charlotte to Rock Hill, South Carolina is 28 miles. Is there a logical explanation for why someone could not make a drive from Charlotte to Rock Hill, but they could make it from Murphy to Manio? No, there is not. What a wild concept that is. I I wish I could answer that for you. Well, I I mean there's there's no real explanation, so I think you did. Uh Mr.
▶ 2:53:58Glessing, you detailed how exemptions from Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's hour of service requirements can be vital to truckers hauling livestock or perishable commodities. Can you put a finer point on this issue by explaining from your perspective what would happen if exemptions are not continued in the surface transportation reauthorization? Certainly appreciate the question.
▶ 2:54:24Um when we're hauling animals for instance uh the the animal welfare aspect of that is probably the the obviously the safety around you but also those animals in that trailer. Um and and if you lift those that exemption, uh you'd hate to think what would happen. Um because when you are that close, those those critters need to get where they're going. And uh um that's why it's so so important to to keep that.
▶ 2:54:54Gotcha. Mr. Elliot, another thing that came up last week in my meetings was was where are these truckers supposed to park? Uh, and as you know, states may use the the highway formula funds to expand available truck parking. However, as we learned at a hearing here in January, shortages of of truck parking still exist, and truckers can spend nearly an hour on average looking for a parking spot. In your opinion, why have states prioritized other highway projects over truck parking?
▶ 2:55:25And what can be done to incentivize investments and increase capacity for parking along major trucking routes? I I think truck parking is not um essentially the sexiest thing for constituents when they take it back. Um everyone needs products, wants products, they want it faster and faster, but yet nobody wants trucks. Those those things are not do not balance or go together. Um you know, yeah, like you said, an hour a day spend on that.
▶ 2:55:53Um, you know, our drivers on average use six to seven hours of their 11. You know, they they sat 1.2 billion hours last year in traffic. That equivalates to 435,000 trucks that never moved. That's that idle. So, that's again part of where our industry looks at weight increases or size increases and say that's a band-aid on a much larger problem that we need to fix the congestion. And if we help fix the congestion, it would help the trucking parking situation hand in hand.
▶ 2:56:24Gotcha. Mr. Lindseay, what federal policies or local recruitment initiatives do you think are most effective in supporting the trucking and supply chain logistics industry? And how could Congress remove barriers to entry for individuals who are interested in pursuing careers in trucking? Um, thank you for the question and I noticed you walked in, you have a plus wingspan, which is which is absolutely something we would look for. So, I I should have written that up earlier. I apologize. Um, look, doing everything we can do to train.
▶ 2:56:53We've heard the word train up here, which is fantastic. The ease of getting a CDL, but the ease of of training those folks, making that more attractive and keep them keeping them in the profession. We continue to lose folks. We got to keep them in the profession. One of the ways we believe you can do that is to make their routes as efficient as possible and take as much stress off of them as we can, as as much driver eliminate as much driver fatigue as possible. So gross vehicle weight limits, I keep going back to that. It's not bigger trucks, it's not longer trucks.
▶ 2:57:20It's just a pilot program that increases from 80 to 91,000, adds a sixth axle, and puts those those trucks on the interstate system. Gotcha. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Let's see. Are there further questions from any members of the committee who have not been recognized? Seeing none, that concludes our hearing for today. I want to thank uh each of our witnesses.
▶ 2:57:45I think the panel was absolutely outstanding and uh each of you got your points across very well. I thought subcommittee stands adjourned.