▶ 0:17:35The subcommittee on aviation will come to order. I ask unan consent that the chairman be authorized to declare recess at any time during today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. I also ask unanimous consent that the members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at today's hearing and ask questions without objection so ordered. And as a reminder, if members wish to insert a document into the record, please also email it to documents ti mail.house.gov. I now recognize myself for the purpose of an opening statement for five minutes.
▶ 0:18:05Good morning. Uh thank you to our panel of witnesses for being here today. Uh you each have a unique perspective on today's discussion. The current state of our nation's airports, 3,200 airports ranging from large hub commercial service airports to small and general aviation airport. 3,200 of them in our great country.
▶ 0:18:25Beyond facilitating the safe and efficient transportation of millions of passengers per year, airports connect our communities and drive economic development in major cities and small towns across America. Last year, airports experienced over 987 million passenger employments and supported 101 million aircraft operations.
▶ 0:18:49Passenger employments are not are are only expected to grow with industry reports forecasting nearly 1 billion a billion in 2025, raising to 1.4 billion by 2040. In order to address the infrastructure needs to meet the growing demand of air travel, industry estimates conclude the United States airports will require almost $174 billion in infrastructure investments over the next 5 years.
▶ 0:19:18Federal investment in our nation's commercial service and general aviation airport infrastructure is vital to ensuring the safety and economic success of the aviation industry. Far too long, funding for the primary federal airport capital program, the airport improvement program, which is AIP, remained stagnant, while increasing program administrative burdens and growing airport infrastructure needs reduced the program's effectiveness.
▶ 0:19:46That's why this committee included robust funding and reforms for airport projects in the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024. Specifically, the FAA bill increased AIP funding to 4 billion annually, added flexibility to the use of the AIP funds, contained comprehensive environmental streamlining reform to expand the number of projects categorically excluded from NEPA reviews, and cut bureaucratic
▶ 0:20:17red tape to expedite project deliveries. Now, we must work to ensure that these provisions are implemented on time and the way that Congress intended. As the subcommittee continues, oversight hearings such as today's offer a great opportunity to discuss ongoing airport infrastructure needs and how Congress can promote regulatory stability that is crucial in allowing airports to properly plan and invest in capital improvement
▶ 0:20:47projects. Additionally, as we work with President Trump and Secretary Duffy on the administration's vision to modernize our national airspace system, it is important, very important to discuss airfield and surface safety needs as a part of such effort. With that, I'd like to thank our witnesses for being here today. I look forward to hearing your testimony. I will now recognize ranking member Cohen for five minutes for an opening statement. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 0:21:17chair and thank you for our witnesses for being here. Uh, in preparation for this meeting, I met with some of our staff yesterday and I tried to explain to them who Pete Rose was. One of them didn't know who Pete Rose was, but I guess he's not for him getting in the Hall of Fame and I didn't want to talk about Duke, but they did know about the airports. They were well, they briefed me well on that. And our airports are so important for our country, for people getting around, economics, jobs, and airports do that. They connect communities. They connect people.
▶ 0:21:46They fuel our economies. And they support our broader transportation ecosystem that works together with the airplanes. As ranking member, I've been proud to support transport transformative investments in critical facilities to airports, especially through infrastructure investment jobs act and the 2024 FAA reauthorization act. That was one of the more important bills we passed last year.
▶ 0:22:10uh ranking member uh u as ranking member I was proud to participate with at that time chairman Graves and of course our ranking member Larson and chairman Graves who did such a great job in putting the bill together. Uh hopefully all those geniuses from Doge won't tear it apart and destroy it. Uh the JA in particular made historic investments in our airport in Memphis, including uh airports all over the the country.
▶ 0:22:39In Memphis, we've seen the firsthand impact. Memphis International Airport, the busiest cargo airport in North America and the second busiest in the world prior to tariffs, has leveraged uh this funding and grants to make meaningful improvements for cargo and passengers alike. Of course, Memphis is home to FedEx and that's why we're so high in the cargo area. The airport's newly modernized terminals, consolidated operations, enhanced accessibility, and significantly improved energy efficiency. It's more than just a facelift.
▶ 0:23:04This is the next generation facility that reflects Memphis's role as a logistics leader and gateway to the world. In 2024, the author FAA reauthorization bill um that continued our momentum and authorized $4 billion annually through 2028 for the airport improvement program, which was the first substantial increase in over a decade. But challenges still remain. The FAA estimates 76 67.5 billion dollars needed airport infrastructure upgrades through 2029.
▶ 0:23:35Terminals are aging. Gate capacity is strained and with expected rise of advanced air mobility aircraft and growing climate risks. Our airports must be equipped not just for today but for tomorrow. That means continued investment in safety which remains top of mind after recent accidents and close calls.
▶ 0:23:52The runway safety council and the new FAA initiatives to improve surface trans surveillance and detection systems are critical and will continue working to ensure their effective implementation means ensuring workers have the support, training and protections they need to do their job safe safely. Ramp operators, people working on the ramp and people the air patrollers as well. We've tragically lost at least five ramp workers in just the past two and a half years.
▶ 0:24:16These workers are operating fastmoving extreme environments in included on the tarmac and the elements guiding aircraft, loading bags and supporting passengers with disabilities. And yet the FAA mandated ramp safety review required by FA reauthorization is months overdue. We cannot allow this kind of delay when lives are on the line. Likewise, gate and ticket agents are facing a rise in verbal and physical softs often from simply enforcing airline policy. Um I don't remember that happening in the past.
▶ 0:24:45may may have, but I don't remember people being rowdy on airplanes and having to be held down and all that. So, some somewhere where another society's getting a little bit out out of hand. Um, FA law included new protections for frontline wake workers, but they must be implemented swiftly and with labor's voice at the table. And for passengers with disabilities, which is an issue I'm champion in that bill, taking long overdue steps to ensure their mobility devices are properly handled. Wheelchairs were thrown around and destroyed. That's those are people's legs.
▶ 0:25:15uh an issue that I was proud to work with Senator Duckworth who championed the issue as well. Department of Transportation's new rule on training for stowing wheelchairs and scooters is now finalized and it's vital that airlines act quickly and responsibly to implement it. In Memphis and across the country, airports are economic engines and community anchors. Let's make sure we give them the tools and investments and workforce protections they need to succeed. Thank you and I look forward to today's discussion and hearing from y'all and what's going on at Cincinnati and Raleigh Durham. yield back. Gentleman yields.
▶ 0:25:45I now recognize ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Larson. Five minutes. Thank you, Chair Nells and Ranking Member Cohen, for holding today's hearing to examine our airport infrastructure, the safety and regulatory challenges uh they face, and to find ways to address these challenges. I want as well thanks for joining us today. Airports serve as a vital engine engines that power local economies. They generate good jobs, they stimulate local businesses, and they attract financial investment.
▶ 0:26:13A study published by the airport count airports council international North America last month found that airports with commercial service support 12.8 million jobs provide $619 billion in annual payroll and produce $1.8 trillion of annual um output. Even more than those benefits, airports serve as a critical of course transportation hub and strengthen connectivity by bringing people together safely. Congress recognized the importance of airports when we passed the 2024 FA reauthorization.
▶ 0:26:42That law bolsters airport infrastructure and operations, improves environmental protections, and most importantly enhances airport The safety provisions included requirements to maximize the hiring of air traffic controllers, expand the deployment of surface surveillance technology to prevent near misses at all large and medium airports, create a new runway safety grant program, accelerate the replacement of insufficient air air traffic control legacy systems, and strengthen protections for airport workers, among other reforms.
▶ 0:27:13As we approach the one-year anniversary of the law's passage, it's become more important than ever the FAA is fully staffed and resourced to implement these key provisions as quickly as possible. Conducting indiscriminate and reckless layoffs of safety personnel goes in the wrong direction. Instead, we have to recommmit ourselves to make our national airspace system or the NAS safer, more innovative, and efficient. As the last few months have shown, we can no longer afford to wait.
▶ 0:27:41For instance, on January 29th, our nation experienced one of the worst aviation accidents in recent history. That evening, a US Army Blackhawk helicopter crashed in an American Airlines flight. It was flight 5342 near Washington National Airport in DCA, tragically claiming the lives of all 67 people on on board both aircraft. It was the first major US commercial passenger flight to crash in nearly 16 years and marked the end of one of the longest streaks without such a crash in US history.
▶ 0:28:10And while the victim's families and the nation continue to grieve this immense loss, this tragic accident was unfortunately followed by a series of other safety incidents in Alaska, Philadelphia, Arizona, and several other places. In addition, there has been a series of troubling near miss events at DCA. Now, the data shows that aviation remains the safest mode of travel in the US. However, the recent series of accidents has shaken the confidence of the traveling public.
▶ 0:28:38Passengers deserve to board their flights and safely reach their destinations without incident and without worry. In order in order to restore this confidence, Congress, the administration, and ind industry must take decisive actions to make the system safer. I'm pleased that the FA is implementing the National Transportation Safety Board's recommendations uh immediate recommendations in response to the DCA midair collision and other accidents that will make the airspace safer.
▶ 0:29:06For instance, the FAA has swiftly banned most non-essential helicopter operations near DCA, is reviewing 21 US airports to determine whether there are any safety risks similar to those at DCA, and is requiring federal agencies that conduct aircraft operations near DCA to broadcast their position using ADSB out. While I I applaud these action there actions, there's more that needs to be done and recent incidents show the US aviation system continues to be under stress.
▶ 0:29:36A 2024 GAO report highlights the critical need to replace our aging air traffic control systems with over a third of these systems described as unsustainable and another 40% as being potentially unsustainable. It's why I as well as many of us are looking forward to Secretary Duffy's proposal to replace and modernize these systems.
▶ 0:29:58Whether it is this proposal, the decisions to streamline the air traffic control hiring process or the FAA's recent policy changes to protect flights in and around DCA, I will support in any and all actions that make our system safer. What I won't support is getting bogged down in partisan witch hunts or implementing mass layoffs or otherwise undermining FA's workforce. Those actions don't make our system safer.
▶ 0:30:22there's no place for the some of the basis baseless rhetoric what we've heard um about the air traffic personnel. We need to have constructive conversations on how to improve a aviation safety. And I'm hopeful that the secretary uh secretary Duffy and the FA leadership will understand these pressing challenges facing US aviation and focus their time and energy on where it belongs on strengthening the safety of the NAS. So what can we do to make airports and the national airspace safer?
▶ 0:30:52For one, we must prioritize our authority to conduct critical oversight. Uh second, we um need to um the Congress and administration have to work together to consider bipartisan proposals to strengthen the air traffic system. Next, this committee needs to take a serious look at the final NTSB recommendations once they're published next year and be prepared to swiftly adopt these should they be so so they can be implemented.
▶ 0:31:16And finally, the committee should continue to listen to what key stakeholders such as the witnesses before us uh today have to say about how to increase safety. When we're working together, we can produce longlasting safety reforms needed to ensure a safer, a more innovative and efficient NAS. Look forward today to hear from the witnesses. The gentleman yields. I would now like to welcome our witnesses and thank them again for being here today. Briefly, I'd take a moment to explain our lighting system to our witnesses.
▶ 0:31:45Uh, lights are in front of you. Green means go. Yellow, you're running out of time. Red, pump the brakes. Right. I ask you and ask consent that the witness's full statements be included into the record. Without objection, so ordered. I ask you and ask consent that the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing. Without objection, so order.
▶ 0:32:08I also asking ask consent that the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments and information submitted by members or witnesses to be included into the record of today's hearing without objection so ordered. As your written testimony has been made part of the record, the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to the five minutes. I'd like now to briefly recognize Representative Foi to provide a quick introduction of our first witness, Mr. Lang. Miss Fosi, you are recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:32:37Indeed, I am very pleased to introduce one of our witnesses today from my home state, Mr. Michael Lang from Raleigh Durham International Airport. It is great to see you again, sir. There have been a lot of exciting developments and investments of late at RDU. So, I think it's very timely to have you before the committee today. I look forward to hearing more about the work you're doing at RDU to make air travel more accessible, safe, and efficient for the folks back home.
▶ 0:33:08It is also my sincere hope that this might prove to be an opportunity for others to learn from the great strides that we in the Tar Hill State are making in airport operations and air travel. My colleagues and I on this committee are so thankful you're here and a part of this hearing, Mr. Lang and we greatly look forward to your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. With that, Mr. Lang, you're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:33:36Thank you, Chairman Nells, Ranking Member Cohen, members of the Aviation Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I'm Michael Lang, president, CEO of the Raleigh Durham Airport Authority. Let me begin by sincerely thanking Congress for your work on the FAA reauthorization act of 2024. Your leadership on regulatory reform and streamlining the environmental re review process will make a meaningful difference.
▶ 0:34:01For too long, even the most necessary safetydriven airport projects have been delayed by fragmented oversight and inconsistent guidance. RDU is a textbook example. Since identifying the need to replace our primary runway back in 2016, we spent over 30 million on temporary repairs, replacing more than 300 concrete slabs with another 20 million in fixes ahead of completion in 2029. What should have been a priority safety project will take nearly 13 years from initial planning to construction.
▶ 0:34:31That's too long. The reforms included in the reauthorization act will help RDU and airports nationwide deliver projects faster with greater certainty. and we are grateful for your support. Second, we must prioritize the modernization of critical infrastructure, especially runways. Nationwide, airport infrastructure needs exceed 34 billion annually, far more than the airport improvement program alone can support. That's why tools like the passenger facility charge or PFC are so important.
▶ 0:35:00The PFC isn't a federal tax. It's a local user fee approved and used locally to fund projects the community deems essential. Empowering local communities to decide what infrastructure they need and how to fund it is the most accountable and effective way to meet demand and ensure long-term safety. The traveler who pays the PFC is the same person who benefits from safer runways, modern terminals, and improved travel options. It gives communities a direct say in the future of their hometown airports. But there's a challenge.
▶ 0:35:30The federal cap on the PFC hasn't been updated in nearly 25 years. Set at $4.50 50 cents in 2000. Its purchasing power has eroded by more than 50%. Modernizing this outdated cap will give airports like RDU the ability to invest in the infrastructure needed to attract new carers, expand service, promote competition, and lower fairs for travelers. We urge Congress to support flexibility.
▶ 0:35:57Third, we fully support the modernization of our air traffic control system. ATC modernization is essential not just for safety but for operational efficiency and long-term system resiliency. Airports are ready partners in this work. Airports across the country have experienced the consequences of misalignment between FA capital programs and airport planning which will only increase costs and delays.
▶ 0:36:20Strategic strategic coordination and clear communication must be central to delivering a smart, more efficient national airspace system. We are committed to working alongside the FA and aviation partners to help accelerate this transformation. In closing, I want to emphasize that airports are powerful economic engines. At RDU, we serve one of the fastest growing regions in the country, supporting over 140,000 jobs and generating more than 24 billion in annual economic impact.
▶ 0:36:49We're ready to invest, build, and lead when we need the right tools, flexibility, and coordination to meet today's demands and prepare for tomorrow's growth. I'm reminded of the opening words of the US Constitution. We the people. It's the powerful reminder that this work is shared and that progress depends on collaboration. While Congress sets the laws, implementation often falls to agencies where even well-intended policies can become overly complex.
▶ 0:37:16That complexity can delay critical infrastructure instead of driving it forward. This moment calls for true partnership. By empowering local communities to decide on what targeted investments they need to make. And by continuing your efforts to streamline regulations, we can ensure the US aviation system remains the safest, most efficient, and most competitive in the world. And again, thank you for your leadership and opportunity to testify today. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
▶ 0:37:42I will now recognize a great member of this committee, Representative Massie, who will recognize our next witness. Go ahead, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's my privilege to introduce Larry Crowder, the CEO of the Cincinnati Northern Kentucky International Airport or CVG. I'm always proud to let people know that the Cincinnati airport is in Kentucky. A lot of people fly through it and don't even recognize that.
▶ 0:38:07But I'm even more excited to announce that the new CEO of the Cincinnati airport is also going to be located in Kentucky or has moved to Kentucky. U he's only one month into his job as CEO at the CBG airport, but he is novice. He has 36 years of experience in the aviation industry.
▶ 0:38:27His career includes key roles at the Lehi Northampton Airport Authority in Pennsylvania as interim executive director, deputy executive director, and director of planning and engineering. He also spent the last 14 years as CEO of Spokane Airports in Washington State. At CVG, Mr. Crowder leads a team of more than 450 employees, manages an operating budget exceeding $160 million. He'd probably say that's not enough.
▶ 0:38:56um driving an e annual economic impact of 9.3 billion for the Cincinnati Northern Kentucky region. I'd also like to point out that this airport is dual purpose. We have the Amazon North American hub and the DHL North American hub there for cargo. His leadership extends beyond CVG.
▶ 0:39:13He's a respected figure in the aviation community, serving on the board of airports council international North America and past chair of the American Association of Airport Executives where he received an distinguished service award and he also received the 2024 Walt Strong Advocacy Award for advancing the federal contract tower program. His expertise and proven track record make him an invaluable player here and voice on aviation policy.
▶ 0:39:42By my count, he's been in front of our committee twice before. This will be his third time. The third time is a charm. Mr. Crowder, I'm confident his insights will benefit this committee as we address future of our nation's airport infrastructure. Thank you, Mr. Crowder, for being here today. If he keeps coming back, I guess that's good news, huh, Thomas? It's good news. Good news. Very impressive. Mr. Crowder, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Representative Massie, for that wonderful introduction.
▶ 0:40:10And good morning, Chairman Nells, Vice Chair Weed, Ranking Member Cohen, and members of the Aviation Subcommittee. Uh, just like my colleague, I would like to thank the subcommittee for your outstanding work on the FAA Reauthorization Act, namely taking that important step to raise AIP to $4 billion per year.
▶ 0:40:27Also, I want to thank this committee for preserving the $4 billion of AIP funding level included in the continuing While Congress has certainly stepped up to help, there remains a significant funding gap to solve if we are going to deliver the aviation system that the American people deserve and restore our airports to global prominence.
▶ 0:40:51Airports Council International North America estimates the total cost of airport infrastructure needs at approximately $170 billion a year over the next five years. FAA estimates 68 billion for those projects eligible for federal funding. And CVG, just one of the 33 mediumhub airports in the NIPAUS, has a capital improvement program alone exceeding $1.2 billion in the next 5 years.
▶ 0:41:17So to further localize this and build on the testimony you've heard previously, I would like to talk about one of our projects, the concourse A passenger aircraft parking rehab project that is our highest priority in our five-year CIP. The total cost of the project is $90 million with 67.5 million eligible to be funded with AIP grants.
▶ 0:41:39The direction we've seen from the FAA is to phase the project over four or five years due to the lack of available grant funding, specifically discretionary grant funding. Even with a multi-year phasing plan, the FAA has still indicated that the amount of entitlement and discretionary funds available for this project are only sufficient to fund 60% of the total project cost.
▶ 0:42:05This is not an isolated example and it is occurring throughout the NIPUS and we will not succeed if this continues. One potential option to address these shortfalls is through continued supplemental appropriations to help the FAA reach more projects. Yet, even with this additional help, Congress would need to more than double AIP to about $9.8 billion annually from the current level to meet estimated need.
▶ 0:42:31The committee has preferred to increase financial resources to airports through making supplemental appropriations to AIP as an alternative to increasing the passenger facility charge. So, as a starting point for the committee to consider for supplemental funding in the next fiscal year, we recommend 975 million with lattered increases each year over the next four years to close that funding gap.
▶ 0:42:58A potential source of additional revenue for supplemental AIP funding would be to extend excise taxes to include airline ancillary fees, primarily bag fees. The US DOT Bureau of Statistics estimates airlines collected approximately $ 8.3 billion in bag fees and cancellation change fees last year. If those revenues were subject to the excise tax, an additional $625 million could have been generated for the aviation trust fund.
▶ 0:43:25The PFC remains a key source of funds to help us build America's airports. Over the long period of time that the PFC level has been held steady, its purchasing power has severely declined. This challenge creates more debt that has to be issued by airports across the country to make up the shortfall. At CBG, one of the central components of our terminal modernization program is the $200 million replacement of our baggage handling system. very reliant upon PFC funding.
▶ 0:43:53Our team is concerned about the length of time that the approval process is taking with the FAA and again asks for streamlining to be applied to all projects that are eligible for terminals, not just projects that are under $25 million per year. What we suggest to complement the existing PFC program is also considering extending the airport terminals program part of the bipartisan infrastructure law.
▶ 0:44:18ATP works well because airports compete for discretionary funding lonely within the same hub category. We think these resources have been very positive for airports across the country have allowed them to stretch PFC funds and issue less debt which we should all Finally, in the present environment with the funding levels of AIP unable to close the gap and PFC limits stretched um to their very uh significant extent as well as a sunset of BIL funding, it is imperative to preserve
▶ 0:44:48the taxexempt status of general airport revenue bonds. In the case of C CVG, if our garbs were taxable, that would divert another $4 million annually investing from investing in projects to paying additional debt service. I have a number of suggestions that I've made in my written testimony, Mr. Chairman, regarding uh changes uh to the FAA and processes, and I look forward to talking further about that with you as time allows. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you, Mr. Crowder and Mr. Sutton.
▶ 0:45:19You're recognized for five minutes, sir. Good morning, Chairman Nails, Ranking Member Cohen, Ranking Member Larson, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you very much for holding this hearing on airport infrastructure. I am Andre Sutton, air division director and international vice president of transport workers union. We we represent more than 160,000 transportation workers across the country.
▶ 0:45:45We are the largest union in the airline industry for the US repres representing ramp workers, mechanics, dispatchers, flight attendants, pilot simulator instructors, and others who safely deliver passengers and cargo every day. The TWW applauds this committee's efforts to pass the full FAA reauthorization last Congress. Our union strongly endorsed the bill which included historic provisions the TWW spent decades advocating for.
▶ 0:46:16However, nearly a year after its enactment, none of the provisions most important to the TWW have been fully implemented. We strongly urge this subcommittee to en ensure the last year's law is fully implemented to the letter of the law. This will raise the level of safety and return high quality jobs of our nation nation's airspace.
▶ 0:46:43As a ramp worker myself, I recognize the safety concerns of working on the ramp. Five workers have died on the ramp since this subcommittee held hearings on ground worker safety in January of 2020. In April 2023, TWW member Michael Ingram, an American Airlines ramp worker at Austin Begram, was crushed by a malfunctioning pushout tractor and pinned to a jet bridge.
▶ 0:47:12This year so far, a ramp worker has died in Charlotte Douglas and another seriously injured at Chicago O'Hare. These tragedies were the result of a failure of oversight at all levels, including the FAA. The FAA has not studied ramp worker safety since 2002.
▶ 0:47:31Last year's reauthorization mandates the FAA to issue a call to action to review ramp worker safety practices, address long-standing deficiencies in FAA policy, update training programs, and increase the visibility of safety markers. However, the FAA has blown past the November 2024 deadline for initiating this review. As a result, any action will be delayed.
▶ 0:48:01Turning to the issue of assaults, last month, a gate agent at Washington Dulles was knocked out by a disgruntled passenger. Unruly and violent behavior is traumatizing workers across the industry. This directly impacts recruitment and retention. While the number of formally reported cases of unruly passengers had dropped since its peak in 2021, the number still continue to exceed precoid levels.
▶ 0:48:30We applaud Congress for taking this matter seriously. The new FAA reauthorization clarified statutory protections to prevent assaults on airport and airline employees. Congress also mandated a task force to develop voluntary standards for combating assaults on the ground and on the plane. Importantly, workers are required to have a voice at the table.
▶ 0:48:54Congress reiterated its FAA reauthorization of 2018 requirement for air carriers to develop and institute employee assault prevention and response plans. While a federal no-fly list is the strongest action Congress could take, we have no doubt that the provisions included in the new law will reduce the number of assaults. However, workers will not see any benefits of these changes until these provisions are fully implemented.
▶ 0:49:24Lastly, since the late 1980s, the FAA has encouraged airlines to perform maintenance outside of the US by selectively enforcing safety regulations. Today, there are nearly 1,000 FAA certified repair stations abroad that have been allowed to operate without complying to the minimum standards that the FAA imposes on domestic facilities, including mechanic qualifications, background checks, drug and alcohol testing, and random inspections.
▶ 0:49:55China has benefited the most from this lack of enforcement. Last year's law directs the FAA to close all these loopholes immediately. My written testimony includes additional details of importance of properly implementing the FAA bill. The health and safety of TWW members and airline workers across the country depend on Congress ensuring that the FAA takes this mandate seriously. Thank you for holding this hearing and I look forward to answering any questions.
▶ 0:50:25Uh thank you uh all for your testimony. We will now turn to questions uh from the panel. I'll recognize myself for five minutes. Uh, Mr. Crowder, the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 made significant significant changes to the AIP program aortionment formulas. Can you speak how these changes will benefit your airport and airports in general? Thank you, Chairman Nells, for the question.
▶ 0:50:52The new formulas that this committee recommended that were put into the law are very helpful um in AIP. Just talking about CVG alone, uh we will see an increase of over $3.6 million in AIP entitlement coming to us as well as additional opportunities to compete for discretionary funds back to the concourse a passenger ramp rehabilitation project that is severely short of money.
▶ 0:51:21Um this obviously helps push that in the right direction. And I think overall 3.6 6 million looking at at a medium hub hub airport. Um and how that will also help smaller airports across the country is really critical because smaller airports even um suffer even more than we do in terms of how they have to phase projects and a lot of them are using several years worth of AIP to literally save up to be able to implement a project at their facilities.
▶ 0:51:50So again, this is moving us in the right direction uh with regard to being able to fund these projects and not have projects take five, six years because of phasing impacts. Got it. Thank you, Mr. Lang. Uh the FAA reauthorization act uh also increased funding for the AIP program to 4 billion annually. Speak of the importance of of this increase in funding, how it benefits airports. Thank you, uh chairman.
▶ 0:52:18Uh I would tell you one provision of that reauthorization that was really uh beneficial to our airport was section 713 which was the PFC turnback. Uh that provided more funding for medium hub airports. It's interesting. I actually had ACI NA do a study that looked over the past 10 years that if RDU had a 450 PFC, how much money would they wind up getting in terms of uh excuse me, it's part of the the tax the tax into the the system.
▶ 0:52:46how much money would uh the citizens of the region actually wind up getting back uh paying into the system and they said for every dollar that our citizen pays into the aviation trust fund we get about nine cents on the dollar back it's not a significant amount so this PFC turnback what it does instead of me giving 75% of my entitlements back it's now at 60% so it's roughly almost about uh about almost a million dollars more a year we'll wind up getting so that was very beneficial to us to get that turn back back to mediumsiz airports because I don't think anybody predicted did 25 years
▶ 0:53:16ago when with the PFC in place that it would remain stagnant for such a long period of time. And so trying to get those formulas a little bit more balanced would be important I think for Congress to continue to consider. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned that Mr. Crowder stuff about the the passenger facility charge at 450. It's been that way since 2000. Uh you're talking about the the shortfalls you're seeing with I mean you're talking about 13 possibly 13 years to complete the projects that you have. Yes, sir.
▶ 0:53:44um and and just with construction costs, inflation and everything, if you if you took that 450, what would you make it? What would be the right amount to help you complete your your goals and objectives that you see uh with when it comes to capital When I last testified before the committee, uh Mr.
▶ 0:54:06Chairman, Representative Massie gave me a homework Um, and that homework assignment was to go back and figure out the exact answer to your question. Um, and at that time, um, as I was leading a small hub airport, um, I believe that that math, uh, was in about the 13 to$14 range for our capital program at that time.
▶ 0:54:31Um, and obviously given the amount of time that's elapsed, that would be considerably more uh, due to construction cost inflation. So you're talking about PFC levels uh alone uh that would need to uh be raised substantially and that varies from airport to airport and that was one of the reasons that we had talked about um the possibility of uncapping the PFC and allowing airports to figure out exactly your question which is what do they need to charge in order to efficiently
▶ 0:55:01execute their capital program. Yeah. Yeah. It is a user fee obviously Mr. Lang, you got anything on that? Yeah, interesting comment. So interesting. I went back and looked if we just raised the PFC by $1 back in 2010 to today, it would have produced about $9.27 billion. A dollar. That is a significant amount of money that could be used. I'll give you a good idea. I've got a $1 billion runway that we're building. My entitlement is 1% of the cost of that runway. 1%.
▶ 0:55:32So that PFC removing that cap so we can afford critical infrastructure like things like runways because that's currently under that AIP program, it's nowhere close to be able to support that type of development. Well, you think about adding a dollar to think that potentially 1 billion passengers in the year 2025. I mean, that's a significant amount of money. We don't know what the CBO score would be on something like that, but that's a whole another conversation. I will yield. I will now recognize Ranking Member Cohen for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:56:02Uh, Mr. Crowder, you've only been on the job about a month. Is that right? Yes, sir. Cougars, Bearcats, or Wildcats? I'm sorry. Cougars, Wildcats, or Bearcats? Uh, University of Cincinnati Bearcats. You Kentucky Wildcats, sir. Good answer, Mr. Massie. Thank you, sir. You got a good one there. Uh, Mr. Lang, your airport. No, it was really Mr. Crowder. We weren't at the airport at the time, but Cincinnati got clobbered just like Memphis did when Delta dehubbed. And we had Mr.
▶ 0:56:31Anderson before us who was the president of Delta. And he swore that it wasn't going to happen. Cincinnati wasn't going to be dehubbed. Memphis certainly wasn't going to be de-hubbed. He loved the rendevous and he loved this guy and that guy and this thing and that thing. It was not going to happen. And then he lied. We got dehubbed. What happened in the Cincinnati airport? How much have y'all The Northern Kentucky Cincinnati airport? How much how many terminals or how many areas of square footage have y'all lost or have you redeployed it in some other way since they were dehubbed?
▶ 0:57:00Well, obviously dehubbing was a a considerable shock because the airport was really built around the hub connect concept and we are dealing, as I mentioned in my testimony, with a $200 million plus baggage handling system challenge because the baggage handling system was put in place by Delta and it was really designed around that connecting passenger and not the origin and destination airport that that we've become after the dehubbing occurred.
▶ 0:57:27But obviously we had to make some tough decisions, Mr. Ranking member. We had to take terminals down that were no longer functional. You tore them down. Yes, sir. We did. We had to tear terminals down that were no longer functional. We didn't need that space. Um and we had to reconfigure the entire landside of the airport, which we've done successfully, but at considerable expense, as you can imagine. Um the gate areas are are a better story than the landside.
▶ 0:57:54the gate areas um we've been able to utilize as we've diversified our air service. Um obviously we still have additional gates. So we're always welcome to additional air service from our airline partners. But the the airport on the air side functions very efficiently um and we do have gate space available. But because of the diversification uh between ultra- lowcost carriers um and regional carriers and major carriers, we've actually really done a good job at utilizing our gate space that's available.
▶ 0:58:22So, we're comfortable um in terms of where we're at from a capacity standpoint. Now, did Delta help at all when you had needed to change or did they not have any responsibilities at that point? Uh yes, sir. They did help um and they continue to help. They have been supported uh supported our capital improvement program, um our bond issuance, the PFC applications, um as well as continuing to be uh the largest carrier in the Cincinnati market at about I'd say roughly a 35% market share. Great. Mr. Mr.
▶ 0:58:50Sutton, one of the things we did in the U reauthorization bill was to make it where people who had mobility problems and had wheelchairs got um better better standards and rules for their devices. Um what are the biggest obstacles in your opinion are there to the implementation of the new regulations and laws concerning the safe handling of wheelchairs on airplanes? Thank you, sir.
▶ 0:59:17So, what we've noticed is that a lot of a lot of training or lack of training um isn't available to the membership as a whole. We recognize that a lot of these devices, they're not all the same and they change in in various ways.
▶ 0:59:36And we were looking at trying to find functional ways outside of training to be able to transition from a ticket counter where the individuals may check in or at the gate area where they may have their wheelchairs or mobile devices, mobility devices, excuse me, sent down to the ramp area.
▶ 0:59:56So, we're looking at are there ways that a lot of the airports today actually have like dumb waiters or elevators, service elevators that are designed for things of that nature, but not all airports have this. So, we're looking at other apparatuses that can be utilized on the ramp itself.
▶ 1:00:15So the employees can then transition load these devices without damaging or creating any disruptions in the transfer of the passenger going on their journey. Thank you, sir. To all three of you, have has Doge affected any of your operations? U any seen any places where they've cut positions that might affect Raleigh or Cincinnati?
▶ 1:00:40at least for RDU as of today as we speak today haven't seen any impact especially from an FAA standpoint u but uh I think a lot of those uh cuts are going into place um we'll have to monitor that a little bit to see exactly what happens to the different agencies and the the the IJA which was passed how has that affected your airport and and your airport yeah so if you're talking about the BIL dollars that we actually received so again I'll give you an idea we have a $1 billion runway Okay.
▶ 1:01:10Uh 1% of that's going to be paid for out of the entitlement. Uh we've got about 2% discretionary and those BIL dollars represent about 7%. The total for funding from the federal government to pay for that runway is about 11%. So BIL is a large portion of that overall program. So funding that has been extremely helpful uh to RDU. But again, you're talking about 11% of an overall larger program.
▶ 1:01:34We've got pretty small investment uh for a lot of the regulatory requirements that we've got that are placed on the airport. To your question, um Mr. Ranking member, uh with regard to Doge, uh we have not experienced any adverse impacts. However, we have made a a hire onto our staff from uh one of the FAA employees uh that was reduced as a part of those activities. So, we're very happy to have a a well-qualified person join our team.
▶ 1:02:03Um uh as uh my colleague Mr. Langu said, we've been very fortunate with uh BIL AIG and ATP funds, we've received over $86 million at CBG. Um and we'll be looking for additional dollars um against this terminal modernization program that I mentioned in the last round. Thank you all and I yield back. Gentlemen yields. I now recognize Mr. Massie for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um and thank you again, Mr. Crowder for being here today.
▶ 1:02:30As we discuss how to fund airport infrastructure, I'd like to focus on the passenger facility charge and it's $4.50 cap. It always amazes me that was set in What year was that set? When was the last adjustment to that? 2000. So 2000. It's been a quarter of a century. There's been a little bit of inflation since then. Just a smidge.
▶ 1:02:54Um, and we have airlines charging 30,4 $50 to check a bag and the airport can only charge $4.50 to use the airport. That's it's kind of amazing to me when you put it in that perspective. I think you said there's $ 8.3 billion of baggage and claim fees, uh, change fees, sorry.
▶ 1:03:17U, yet the PFC is still stuck at How does that cap impact um your ability to fund critical infrastructure projects at at CBG or how did it affect it at Spokane when you worked there? I think this I think thank you for the question represent Massie. think that this is an answer that would apply really to all airports, which is that the the current limit really acts as an artificial constraint.
▶ 1:03:47Um, in terms of particularly how you can pay for your projects either on a pay as you go basis, which um because of inflation that 450 is really probably even less than half of what it was set at being conservative. Um, and that also then forces more airports to basically use the PFC as a debt service mechanism. And that means we've got to issue more debt.
▶ 1:04:14And that means we have to obligate the PFC for longer and longer periods of time. You'll find airports out in our system that are literally unable to obligate their PFCs any further because they're out 20, 30 years or more. And I think that is really probably one of the most important points of why the PFC ought to be looked at in terms of of an increase setting it.
▶ 1:04:38Isn't that a feature of the PFC that you can actually have a guaranteed revenue stream or as guaranteed as can be, right? Um you have this revenue stream that you can go borrow money against. Whereas when you're getting grants, you don't know that that's going to be there in four years or five years. And I'm I'm not sure if it was you, Mr. Crowder or Mr. Lang who mentioned that these these grants come in tanches and they want to stage things over four years or some artificial thing. Was that you Mr.
▶ 1:05:09Yes. Yes, it was representative Massie and I think that is just another example that despite the the the amazing work that this subcommittee did to increase AIP to $4 billion a year, the need is just so significant that you have the FAA coming back and saying we can't reach that project. Even though we know it's a good project, we can't reach it. It's going to take us four to five years and even then we can only fund 60% of that project.
▶ 1:05:35And I think that probably is a a an issue that you would hear from any airport executive that would be providing this testimony to you today. So when you have to cut it up in stages, it gets more expensive, doesn't it? It get it gets more expensive and it al also actually gets less safe. When you can take larger areas out and reconstruct them and not have to break that up in four or five phases, it's actually safer to do. And so I think there is a safety and efficiency element to this.
▶ 1:06:05and not just a funding element. Can you talk about the administrative burdens of applying for AIP grants and how does that compare to collecting and using PFC funds? The the PFC is um uh we we'll say streamlined uh to a certain extent, but um as Mr. Languth and I uh talked about this based on our collective experiences.
▶ 1:06:28The streamlining really needs to go to the next level in our our opinions in the sense that um FAA tends to try to uh make everything look like the airport improvement program and they want to take the same kind of approach to that in terms of getting way down into the details of justification and need.
▶ 1:06:49Um, and so it's not uncommon to see an eight or ninemonth process to get a PFC application approved for for projects that are very straightforward in terms of their eligibility. And so if we could look at opportunities to streamline, uh, that really would be meaningful to us and make sure that the FAA does not um, wander into areas that we believe um, ought to really be the purview of local decisionmaking.
▶ 1:07:18And I think that's where we find ourselves um in in conflict at times um is that we want to really retain and we think we are the best to retain these types of decisions, but we run into a lot of administrative bureaucracy around justification need um and concerns inside of the way the FAA interprets uh the AIP program. Thank you, Mr. Crowder. My time is expired. I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Larson for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. S. I want to start with you.
▶ 1:07:47So, we've asked the FAA to do a lot um in the uh 24 reauthorization bill, but but we did ask the FAA, we did outline the to-do list for the FAA, and part of that to-do list, you've outlined um some of the uh issues that are of mo most interest to TWW, your members, and frankly, other folks who work at the airports. And just want to be sure I get uh for the record some of those things.
▶ 1:08:14the uh the uh uh foreign repair stations or the heavy maintenance repair stations, the the work that we gave the FA to ensure there's background checks, employee drug alcohol testing, inspections, and so on. Where is the FAA in your view um on that work list? How how much have they done? Thank you, sir. I I don't exactly know exactly where they are.
▶ 1:08:42Uh we're still waiting on the the the one biggest piece if I can say is the drug and alcohol testing. If we could just get that piece actually enacted. I think that a lot of these um overseas bases or facilities if they had to follow the same rules that we do here in the states might reduce the actions that are being pretty much done by the airlines of sending these aircrafts overseas to
▶ 1:09:12be repaired on. Um okay I think uh represent Cohen mentioned the baggage handling. Are you getting the um uh direction from the FAA on appropriate proper training for uh uh handling uh baggage especially uh mobility devices?
▶ 1:09:34No, we have not heard anything back and in fact there hasn't been a real in-depth study as to some of the guidelines and provisions that need to take place in the workg group and we're hoping to have some kind of um meeting and dialogue to establish some of the implementation of the reauthorization bill.
▶ 1:09:57And as of yet, we still have nothing to work on, nothing to work And then on the uh customerf facing airport and uh airline workers and protecting them from assault uh there's direction we gave the FAA in 2018 and uh in your estimation, where is the FA in the process of uh helping um or establishing the guidelines, the you know, just the work plan to deal with the the to-do list
▶ 1:10:27that we gave the FA on on those issues. So again, sir, I do not want to be repetitive, but we be repetitive. We we have we have nothing we have nothing to work on, nothing to go with. And every day that passes by, we have frontline employees that go and deal with the the company direct, I'm sorry, with the passengers directly on behalf of the company.
▶ 1:10:50And when things change, which they do in the airline industry, those individuals are the ones that generally are the blunt of the blame and then they get attacked either verbally or physically. And we need to establish something that now gives these folks that protection. They need to feel protected at work. Thanks. Uh Mr. Crowder, good to see you again.
▶ 1:11:16Um and uh glad you're um enjoying your new job. We miss you in Washington uh the with regards to the midair collision and the FA's announcement that they're they've identified 21 airports where there's a perhaps a higher risk of midair collisions similar to the one the tragedy that happened at DCA.
▶ 1:11:38Um, what uh what work are is the are the airports generally doing to help the FAA identify as well as change airspace patterns um in around in and around those 21 airports. Uh thank you, Mr. Ranking Member. Um great to see you again. Rick's fine, Rick. Thank you. Uh it's really a collaborative process whenever you're talking about making um airspace changes.
▶ 1:12:06airports and the FAA traditionally do work together very well uh to make sure that um on the airport side they're looking at community uh potential impacts as well as um how the airfield is used and so in that in that collaborative process which is the best way to operate obviously um I think that uh airports and the FAA are uh both working very diligently uh to make sure that changes in airspace um and the way that Metroplex
▶ 1:12:36design in part is done is done in a way that will continue to allow efficiency and capacity but safety paramount. Will there be a time is there a timeline? Have you received a timeline from the FAA? No, sir. I'm not aware of one and I think that points to u some of the issues that we've discussed at this hearing.
▶ 1:12:55Um and uh one of the parts of my testimony um with regard to deadlines, I really think that this committee um and Congress could really help the system um in in immeasurable ways uh by establishing clear deadlines for these types of projects to be completed and conducting aggressive oversight around that. Thanks. Thank Gentleman yields. Mr. Massie, you wanted to enter something in the director? Mr.
▶ 1:13:25Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to submit for the record an article uh titled, "User fees are a market-based way to enhance air traffic control by Phil Bell." This article came out a week ago, and it explains why raising the PFC isn't a tax increase. It's more like getting uh relieving the airports from price controls. And with that, I ask unanimous consent to submit for the record. Without objection, Mr. Perry, you're recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, great to see you.
▶ 1:13:54One place I believe that the FAA reauthorization bill fell short is in providing air traffic control system reforms uh that I think are very desperately needed. Uh I've been on the committee for a good while now and it's the same conversation over and over and over again. Nothing seems to get much better.
▶ 1:14:14Um the recent occurrence of collisions, close calls and incidents have demonstrated that we need to we need to do something and we need it's long past it's long past time. Unfortunately, meaningful reform in the last two reauthorizations did not occur.
▶ 1:14:31I offered an amendment that transferred the operation of air traffic control services currently provided by the FAA to a separate notfor-profit corporate entity um to provide for more efficient operation and improvement of ATC. Now, the provision ultimately failed uh to be included, but similar proposals in the past have gained widespread support from labor and industry, and the concept has worked where other countries have employed it. Most notably, Nav Canada.
▶ 1:15:02Uh more than two decades after Canada switched to a nonprofit corporate model, they have one of the most advanced air navigation systems in the in the world. And moreover, it costs less. US air traffic control costs about 20 26% more on average. I don't think there's any silver bullet, but we've got to do something uh more fundamentally the status quo continues to allow our nation's safety regulator, the FAA, to oversee itself.
▶ 1:15:32Now, look, you don't have to be a genius to know that that's not a good plan, right? it doesn't follow IKO recommendations and and when regulators oversee themselves of course there's no accountability and uh there's usually widespread system failure which is what we're seeing that's it's indicated by near misses mishaps uh those type of things that's an indicator I still believe that the path that I offered offers the best uh solution
▶ 1:16:02to a safer more efficient air traffic control system but I'm open to other ideas on the topic. I'm wondering, start with you, Mr. Crowder. Um, do you have any ideas? Thank you, Representative Perry, and and thank you for uh your interest in advancing the ATC modernization. Um it's really for those of us who've been in the industry a long time.
▶ 1:16:29Um it is frustrating uh to see efforts uh that are initiated and then are not followed through upon. And we have seen a number of programs over the time that I have uh been involved in airport management uh where the FAA has started off with the greatest of intentions um in order to try to make uh changes in to technology um and for a variety of different reasons uh
▶ 1:16:59either being subject to the funding cycle um as well as procurement related uh challenges. have not really been able to ever really finish one of those programs. And so, um, for us, I think it it's looking at what what is the best vehicle to allow them, uh, to get the right technology, um, and procure it and roll it out uh, with a sense of urgency within a time frame that'll actually make
▶ 1:17:29a difference. And certainly the model that we're currently using isn't getting us there, right? We've been at this for decades now. I think decades I think sir that u that there may be different opinions um about what to do but I think everyone is going to agree with that Mr. Lang. Yeah maybe I have left. Yes sir. Uh maybe you kind of think about what airports doing across the country. They're they're looking at P3s public private partnerships. New York has done a lot of P3s for developing their terminals.
▶ 1:17:59So privatization maybe there is something there that we should look further. I do think the investment in the infrastructure is going to be important. I will tell you at RDU right now during the summer we take portable air conditioning units over to the tower just to keep them uh to a point where their workers can actually stay in the building. That's how bad it is across the country.
▶ 1:18:20So it's not just operating the system, but making the capital investment and how are we going to collect the fees to pay for that critical infrastructure I think is important discussion point. While I got in the 20 seconds remaining, uh, for construction and and and well, generally for construction and and maintenance and upgrades, the NEPA process that the FAA follows, would you comment on efficiencies or lack of efficiencies in that regard?
▶ 1:18:45Since I've got about 8 seconds left, it took us literally seven years to go through the environmental process for a runway. That's the efficiency you see right now. I think we get it. Thank you. I yield. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Davids for five minutes. Thank you uh chairman and uh to our ranking member for holding this hearing today. Uh and thank you to our witnesses for taking the time to share your testimony and experiences with us.
▶ 1:19:12Uh you know, I've been a member of this committee since I got to Congress and uh consider myself fortunate to have been part of helping to pass the bipartisan infrastructure law uh which was the single largest federal investment in our nation's infrastructure in history. Uh, and it's it's been really heartening to see these federal investments be put to use in some of our largest and busiest airports. Um, as well as some of our smaller airports. We've got a ton of small airports across Kansas.
▶ 1:19:40Uh, and uh, they are often serving uh, largely rural populations. Uh, in fact, in cities like Ottawa, Gardner, and um and then in Miami County, the airport improvement program has invested more than uh a million dollars to help resurface some of those runways to extend their useful life.
▶ 1:20:00Uh, and I uh, am the co-chair of the Congressional Sustainable Aviation Caucus and spend a lot of time thinking about our future needs that we really haven't even begun to address, like helping airports adapt the fuel infrastructure uh, for integration of sustainable aviation fuels. Uh, so um, I uh, I would like to hear from the whole panel if we get to time, but Mr.
▶ 1:20:28Crowder, I was um hoping you could start by kind of putting a fine point on the importance of federal uh both federal investments, the mixture of investments um as you know, whether it's the AIP um or other uh programs, but I also am curious, you had mentioned the um general airport revenue bonds. Uh could you could you expand on that uh as well?
▶ 1:20:57Uh yes, thank you, Representative Davids, and thank you for meeting with our uh legis at our legislative conference a couple weeks ago and addressing us. We really appreciated uh your input. Uh with regard to uh the importance of federal funding, most of our airports in the system um will continue to need to rely on a significant portion of federal funding.
▶ 1:21:17All the airports that you mentioned um in fact will be largely dependent on federal andor state funding um potentially through block grant programs which are also very important that the FAA cooperates with state DOS on to flow funding primarily to general aviation airports. I would also point out as you commented that the bipartisan infrastructure law was truly remarkable legislation um in terms of what it was able to do for airports of all sizes.
▶ 1:21:47And the fact that the way that the policy was designed that you compete for discretionary funds within your hubsiz category was extraordinary. And it really allowed airports to thrive inside of that program to put facilities in um that they otherwise wouldn't a be able to afford. And that allowed them to stretch back to the revenue bonds that allowed them to use that money uh to defer the need to issue as much debt.
▶ 1:22:17And uh that is very critical uh because obviously there are limits to how much debt that you can issue. Yes, I'd like to tell a little bit about the RDU story and uh funding for critical infrastructure. So, in 2023, we're probably the fastest growing airport in the country. Grew by 22%, grew by another 5% uh in 24. So, we're growing substantially because of what we see in terms of growth in our community.
▶ 1:22:43Uh unfortunately, because federal funding or the PFC cap hasn't been lifted, we're not going to be able to execute on our multi-billion dollar program. We really need to invest $5 billion. What we can afford is about $2.5 billion, which is building a runway, expanding the landside for a terminal, and building a roadway. At the end of the day, that means we will not add any gates, no new gates at RDU for over a 10-year period. During the early morning kickoff, I have no gates.
▶ 1:23:11Lunchtime, 5:00, during the peaking characteristics that come through our airport, there's no gates available whatsoever. We only have it during kind of the in between peak times, what we've got for gates at the end of the day. and we will take on over a billion dollars worth of debt. A billion dollars worth of debt.
▶ 1:23:27So, anything we can do to improve and increase the AIP funding and relieve the cap on the PFC, it allows us to accelerate terminal expansion for additional gates which provide competition, allows us to continue to grow this national airspace system at the end of the day. Thank you. Uh I see I'm short on time. I yield back. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Go ahead, Mr. your man. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here today.
▶ 1:23:56I represent the big first district of Kansas where aviation is a critical industry in the district. We have roughly a hundred general aviation airports, several commercial and regional airports, a huge footprint in aviation and aerospace manufacturing given our proximity to Witchah. I worked hard to include vital provisions in the FA Reauthorization Act last year to ensure that the nation's airports can focus on critical infrastructure projects and continue to deliver safe, reliable services.
▶ 1:24:24In my view, it's crucial that the FAA and DOT waste no time in implementing the provision that we set forth in that bill. I look forward to hearing from you all today on on what Congress can be doing continue to work um for the benefit of everybody. Um, first question and kind of piggybacking on the uh on on the last one, but for you, Mr. Langoth, we talked about AIP. What challenges do airports face in really effectively utilizing um the program?
▶ 1:24:53Well, I think in terms of using the program, again, give you an idea for RDU, we get about uh $3.5 million a year worth of entitlement funds. It is a limited number of funds. So, uh, our access into the AIP program is pretty limited. Usually one project a year. It's not very substantial. A lot of it's going towards the runway itself. Um, so we don't have a lot, uh, involved in that program at the end of the day in terms of the process we go through.
▶ 1:25:20It's pretty streamlined for us because there's not a lot of grant funding we're actually receiving. Okay. Um, for you, Mr. Crowder, um, FA Realization Act 2024 of course contained numerous provisions benefiting airports of of every size. I have a lot of rural airports in my district. What can Congress do to ensure that all airports, including our smaller, more rural airports, are given the same opportunities for funding and project assistance? Thank you, Representative Man.
▶ 1:25:48That's a really difficult question to answer because again um as you look at how the FAA has to prioritize resources and all the things we talked about in this hearing this morning with regard to the level of need versus the level of resources. Um a number of these smaller rural airports despite the fact that they play very important roles in access to the national air transportation system and public safety roles as we've seen in in in some of the disasters that have unfolded.
▶ 1:26:17a lot of basing is happening for those resources at these smaller airports. The fact is is that FAA struggles to reach them with their projects. And on top of that, quite frankly, a lot of the bureaucracy around the grant process and all of the things that come along with it um can be very challenging for smaller airports to tackle on their own, especially if they don't receive grants on a regular basis. So, I do think that it's it's a it's a very significant issue.
▶ 1:26:47How do we how do we simplify and streamline that AIP process and can we can we get that money to get to those lower priorities in the way that the FAA is allocating funds and really help our smaller airports get through the process, right? Like that's a big part of it and how you streamline and make it simpler. Um I agree. Um the next question for you uh again Mr.
▶ 1:27:09The reauthorization act contained, you know, also contained a title that required the FAA to review its policies and and enact regulatory reforms. Have you received any information from the FAA to indicate that they are working um to enact this particular title? Regrettably, the answer is no, sir. We have not.
▶ 1:27:30Um and um in my testimony, I've spoken at length with regard to uh the need for us, this committee and Congress to exercise that kind of oversight. Because what has happened unfortunately is that when you all have passed a law and that law can be read plainly by all of us, the FAA will go through a process to interpret that law. And what comes out of that process oftentimes doesn't look anything like what you intended.
▶ 1:28:00And so I put some examples in my testimony of that when it comes to uh dealing with the use of non-eronautical property, which actually helps airports to raise additional revenue when we can lease or sell that property. The way that the FAA interpreted section 163 of the 2018 bill, by the time that they went through their process, um it didn't reflect really what we believe was congressional intent.
▶ 1:28:24And so I pointed out in my testimony, you had to come back again after 2018 and tell them again in 2024, no, this is what we really meant and this is what we want you to do. So, the danger is, do we see that happening again if they go through another finding process or program guidance letter or orders or other internal processes they use um that aren't really um able to be commented on the same way that a rulem would be or following the administrative procedure act?
▶ 1:28:54I agree. Something our this committee needs to be taking a look at. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I agree that's a problem. Uh Mr. Johnson, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. chairman and uh thank you ranking member for organizing this important hearing and thank you to the witnesses for your testimony. After everything the aviation industry has been through this year, it's easy to forget that airports are more than just places where we catch flights. They are the engines of our economy.
▶ 1:29:24In Georgia, thousands of families and small businesses rely on Hartsville Jackson Atlanta airport, one of the busiest in the world, to keep the economy moving and to support our communities. However, right now there's a lot of uncertainty hanging over the industry thanks to the actions of President Trump and co-president Elon Musk.
▶ 1:29:47We are witnessing safety workers getting fired, important grants frozen, and complete disregard for the people who keep our skies safe. This isn't reform. It's a deliberate effort to weaken public institutions so that you can justify turning control of these public institutions after you've starved the beast.
▶ 1:30:12uh turning control over to private interest that care more about profits than safety. It's really frustrating to see this unfold, especially after members of this committee put in so much effort to pass the bipartisan FAA Reauthorization Act. We did our part and yet it still hasn't been implemented.
▶ 1:30:34This law would have given the DOT and FAA the tools to modernize infrastructure, strengthen the aviation workforce, and maintain the gold standard of aviation safety. We already passed the law, and the next step is effectively implementing it to protect our skies, workers, and the economy. Anything less would be a failure to serve the American people. Crowder.
▶ 1:31:02The FAA Reauthorization Act bolstered airport infrastructure by increasing the airport improvement program funding from 3.35 billion to4 billion for busy airports like Hartsville Jackson International.
▶ 1:31:20This funding is essential to moving forward with plans to expand capacity and improve the passenger experience, especially as the number of flights, businesses, and travelers continues to grow given the delays in implementing key FAA reauthorization provisions like AIP grants and the current focus on downsizing FAA staff.
▶ 1:31:47How will airports be able to continue their muchneeded modernization efforts without stable and reliable funding and manpower? Thank you, Representative Johnson.
▶ 1:32:01I think that the the issue in the short answer to your question is we won't be able to and that will have very significant negative economic impacts significantly uh potential negative safety impacts and efficiency impacts on very important hub airports like Atlanta which communities like Cincinnati and a number of communities around the country depend on in order to access.
▶ 1:32:29And I think if you play this out, and I think this is is truly a a very significant trend that this committee should be interested in, is that the failure to advance these projects with a sense of urgency is going to require in order to maintain safety is going to require more and more of the larger airports to become slot controlled airports and have their capacity capped.
▶ 1:32:55And when that happens, you'll see a version of the Hunger Games in terms of who gets access to that limited capacity. And I believe smaller communities are going to be at a greater disadvantage in being able to access airports like Atlanta as an example um as time goes on if these projects are not accelerated. Thank you, Mr. Sutton.
▶ 1:33:23In your testimony, you highlighted the ongoing safety risks faced by ramp workers with preventable fatalities and injuries occurring far too frequently. However, this administration's focus on cuts to funding and staffing at key federal agencies, including the FAA, has delayed crucial actions to address these worker safety concerns.
▶ 1:33:46Can you discuss the importance of the FAA implementing the mandated call toaction safety review of ramp worker safety as outlined in the FAA reauthorization act? Yes, sir. And thank you. So, we all know that there are incidents that take place on a large scale and the two that I had mentioned previously in my testimony could have been avoided.
▶ 1:34:12And we're looking for ways to protect the members, the workers that come to these airports. And what our motto basically is at TWW is that we would want the employees to go home in the same way they arrived at work in one piece. And what we're finding is we have took every proper notification to identify in this case equipment that isn't functioning correctly or isn't working or policies that have problems.
▶ 1:34:43But yet everything that we have tried to push up goes nowhere. And by the fact that there has not been any kind of ramp safety studies done since 2002 tells us a lot that people are not taking safety seriously enough. I would rather be proactive to find ways to mitigate any kind of circumstance that would cause harm, damage, and in some cases death.
▶ 1:35:12if by simply going and outlining and some of the stuff that we already have as a tool at our disposal that's just not being utilized. We we need that effort to actually be pushed so people can now formulate ideas and notions that actually work, put them into plans and procedures that actually prevents injuries and save lives. Now I yield. Thank you. I appreciate the chair's indulgence and I yield back. Absolutely. Gentleman yields. And I'll recognize Mr.
▶ 1:35:42Owens for five minutes. Thank you. Well, let me start off by saying I thank each one of you guys for the insight you've given us. Very important hearing today. Um, last year's FA receiptation was a rare glimpse of how Congress can function as a bipart bipartisan effort. Uh, we were able to deliver advanced uh aviation safety and efficiencies, workforce development, and innovation in aviation technologies for Utah, home of Salt Lake City International Airport.
▶ 1:36:07These investments provided us uh support and the contin continuity needed to prepare for our 2034 Winter Olympics in our growing inland port. Uh I know my colleagues on both sides of the aisle are eager to re rekindle the same bipartisanship as we deal with the issues that are being brought to us today. Um, I look forward to this committee addressing the challenges of our country's aging airport in infrastructure proactive proactively preparing for new emerging and innovative technology.
▶ 1:36:37Uh, Mr. Langut and and Miss Crowder uh both advanced air mobility and unmanned air uh aircraft systems will play a role in moving people around during the 2034 Salt Lake uh city Olympics. What can airports do nationwide to prepare for this in this this integration of these uh these technologies? Thank you, Congressman, for the question. I will tell you we're already engaging with the FA to try to figure out what those flight paths would actually be within our community uh to get into the airport and out of the airport.
▶ 1:37:08We're also trying to figure out as we go through our master planning process, where exactly would we actually put these u uh new aircraft, where would they wind up landing? How do you transition passengers? So there's an active enrollment between the FAA, the airports trying to come up with creative solutions as these new technologies come online and provide a new way for customers to travel in and out of our airports. Mr. Do you have any want to add to that? Thank you, Representative Owens. Um and uh I'm a colleague of Mr.
▶ 1:37:37Wyatts um at the great Salt Lake City International Airport um and just salute all the investment that they're making uh to prepare uh for the Olympics uh but also just to uh serve as that economic engine in the community. Um just as Mr. Lang mentioned uh we are very focused on advanced air mobility. We happen to have the uh distinction of having two cargo hub carriers at Cincinnati, both DHL and Amazon.
▶ 1:38:03And you can imagine that those conversations and they're very interested in how advanced air mobility may be able to more efficiently transfer packages. Uh but obviously people as well and just as Mr. Langus said we have to look at it u inside of a regional aviation system plan and look at what are the ranges of of of these types of of aircraft. How over what kind of ranges will they be able to operate economically? But even more importantly, how are they going to be able to fly through different types of complex airspace?
▶ 1:38:33So, back to Mr. Langu's point, we are working with the FAA to ensure that there are opportunities for us to create those pathways in airspace, make sure we have facilities that are capable of accommodating these types of aircraft.
▶ 1:38:46Um and we expect um there will be roles at regional airports as well as general aviation and corporate facilities um for advanced air mobility test beds that can fly into and out of complex airspace so that we can build up you know a reservoir of knowledge on how these aircraft are going to operate safely in the NAS. Very good. Thank you. Uh Mr. sudden.
▶ 1:39:09Uh what improvements can be made in the design and maintenance of airport infrastructures to better attract uh and retain workforce of trade tradesmen and ski other skilled laborers um and airport airport workers? Can can any any ideas improvements in terms of how to attract or retain better a better workforce?
▶ 1:39:33So sir, I believe the easiest way to probably respond that if people knew that when they applied for a job and they were afforded the opportunity that they were going to a safe environment and that they would not have to worry about attacks or had to worry about verbal abuse or having to deal with anything that would be negative to their hopefully advancing career.
▶ 1:40:02I think if we could simplify things enough to identify the the the issues that are actually staring us in the face and I speak from safety because that was that seems to be our biggest concern in the work groups that I represent and if we can ensure anyone that has an interest in coming on board is going into a safe environment I think that changes the complexity of things. Okay. Okay.
▶ 1:40:27Well, thank you and once again, thanks for your insightful insight um comments and we we we will come together as a as a body to make sure we address this issue. Thanks so much. Gentleman yields and I'll recognize Mr. Fochi for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Cohen for holding this hearing and of course thank you all for being here with us today. Again, Mr.
▶ 1:40:48Langu, I am glad that you were able to attend today to speak with us uh about the issues that RDU airport and so many others across the country are facing. Thank you for detailing your runway project's long sorted story. It goes without saying that it shouldn't take seven years to get um environmental approval to rebuild a deteriorating runway.
▶ 1:41:11Looking back on your experience, what do you think the FAA and Congress could do differently to move important projects like this ahead more quickly and more coste effectively? Thank you, Congressman Fushi. Thank you very much for that question. That's a great question. Um, I will tell you that the thing that continues to stick out for me is the environmental process and the timeliness of going through that environmental process. And I'm going to kind of try to explain uh kind of in layman's terms, but if you think about the environmental process being kind of two phases.
▶ 1:41:39The first phase is what I call the preliminary phase. And there's a whole bunch of things that the FA asks us to do in terms of reports um and and uh justification uh before we even begin the environmental documentation phase of it. And that's kind of what I call the execution phase. So as part of the reauthorization section 783 which now established very specific timelines for completing an EIS that was fantastic.
▶ 1:42:03It's great to have a timeline uh for that phase the program but that preliminary phase still doesn't have specific timelines and this is an area that I think maybe Congress could weigh in a little bit. Let me give an example. Um, when we started the the EA EIS process, trying to figure out whether or not we were going to do an EA or EIS back in 2017, the FA asked us to actually do a white paper on that, come up with a recommendation. Should it be an EA or EIS?
▶ 1:42:28Spent months putting that together, lots of money, uh, only to come back and find out that the FA uh, was not in support of that. We then had to sign a reimburseable agreement to the tune of $500,000 to actually pay for staff to go before this EA EIS. Uh further down the line, they asked for further business justification regarding our proposed runway length. Report, study, report, study, report, study before the clock even begins.
▶ 1:42:57And so we finally uh decided to provide them an alternative. And the alternative was a hybrid model where if we didn't agree on the runway length, maybe we would pay for the 1,500 ft that they didn't agree with and the 10,000 ft would be eligible. That was denied as well. And we finally got to the point where we said we need to move forward and we move forward in uh January of 2021. That process took four years to just start the clock.
▶ 1:43:24So maybe a recommendation as you move forward that maybe what airports can do if there's a project already on your approved ALP which our runway was simply sending a notice to the FAA at which point in time they've got 30 days to decide whether or not this is going to be an EA or EIS. So we have some sort of certainty in the beginning portion of this phase to get this project moving in terms of the environmental review process.
▶ 1:43:50That's uh something that I think we learned as a result of this and something that we think Congress could weigh in on. Thank you for that. Mr. Sutton, you've highlighted today the on the job difficulties that ramp workers face every day. The airport tarmac is undeniably noisy. You battle the elements, including extreme heat in some parts of the country, and you can't exceed the carrier's targeted aircraft turnaround times.
▶ 1:44:14We tend to forget that ramp workers play a role in commercial air travel because travelers do not interact with them directly. But the reality is that countless travelers rely on baggage handlers. When you consider the duties they perform and in such a noisy, congested environment, we can see that this work can quickly become dangerous. Can you talk to us a little more about the safety concerns you have seen firsthand as a ground worker Yes, ma'am.
▶ 1:44:45And thank you. So, firsthand knowledge um as a crew chief that used to work on the ramp u the crew you would get notifications of say an aircraft swap or some kind of a change or diversion and then immediately you have this clock running in your head where you have x amount of time to get the whole process done.
▶ 1:45:10Sometimes because policies and procedures aren't always thought out, sometimes some of the policies and procedures that are mapped out don't actually match the assignment that you have to do. People tend to cut corners or put themselves at risk by doing things that are not normal. And we would like for some consideration for the process. The operation is the operation. We understand that.
▶ 1:45:40But there are things that happen on a day-to-day basis and the airline industry is time crucial and a lot of times trying to do what you normally do even though there's a change in the operation does put safety at risk. So we try to look at ways of coming up with policies that actually understand the the process when it changes something that secures at least some form of safety. Thank you for that, Mr. Chairman. I yield. General lady yields and I'll recognize Mr.
▶ 1:46:09Stabber for five minutes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Lang, you didn't you failed to mention um the lawsuits in between that can happen. Um you know, in the fiscal responsibility act, there was a shot clock for an EA one year, a shot clock for an EIS two years. The prior admin administration, even though it was signed into law, use that as a quote recommendation. Unfortunately, uh there's a shot clock now. That's law. We must follow it.
▶ 1:46:36Uh but you give a good example of of permitting uh uh we have to change our permitting systems. We we have to make it work. I mean you explained hundreds of thousands of dollars that in your opinion was wasted and I believe that it was wasted. We could do much better. So I do appreciate you uh talking about permitting reform and we needed across the nation and I think that I think we can deliver it in really a bipartisan fashion. Uh Mr. Sutton.
▶ 1:47:03Uh, I have always said that safety above and below the wings must be top priority. Over the last 32 months, at least five ramp workers worker fatal uh fatalities have been reported by the media. In the FAA reauthorization of 2024, we included a call toaction safety review of ramp worker safety, which requires the FAA to assess safety on the ramp and report to Congress on results and any recommendations for action.
▶ 1:47:33When you consider the duties that the ramp workers perform such and you have uh it's a noisy, congested environment, you quickly quickly realize that the work can be extremely hazardous. Mr. Mr. Sutton, could you speak to us more about why it is so important for the FAA to complete its call to action safety review of ramp worker safety as mandated by Congress in the FAA reauthorization? Yes, sir. And thank you.
▶ 1:48:03The the ramp has a lot of known issues that compromises safety on a regular basis and we can talk to the companies that we work for to were blue in the face, but we need we need something that has some bite to it.
▶ 1:48:22and the fact that the FAA has not came out and done a a ground uh ground safety study that would then take in everything that we know is happening in our on the ramp and in the tarmac the the U cargo areas that we work.
▶ 1:48:39Those would then transform themselves into recommendations and findings that Congress could then come weigh in on and make the decision that hey this is not being followed the correct way or we need to change the work and the way we do our work today and into a positive manner that puts us back into the realm of safety for everyone involved. Agreed. Thank you. Uh Mr. Crowder.
▶ 1:49:03In my district, the Duth International Airport has the third oldest air traffic control tower in the country. You can imagine the condition it is in. I toured it last summer. I was appalled that the workers had to work in that old 1950s facility. They are one spare part away from having major major issues. And you know what? We have a fighter wing there. F-16 fighter wing.
▶ 1:49:32that we strategically depend on to defend our airspace and our national security and we look at you know this better than anybody. We need to really uh invest um yet despite the inadequacies uh the DUP provides a critical role in generating local employment by supporting regional aviation activity, joint civil uh military operations and all other businesses located in the Northland.
▶ 1:49:59roughly 4,000 jobs and uh our airport contributes an estimated$ 1.4 billion dollars to our local economy and that you mentioned the air airport terminals program in your testimony. DUTH has made it clear that the ATP was a lifeline for projects like the Duth air traffic control tower. Mr. Carter, could you elaborate on why this program was successful for airports and what improvements you might suggest to further enhance it?
▶ 1:50:28Thank you, Representative Stabber. And I think that the DUTH story is a story that is being told across a number of communities in our country and back to my testimony is that um we are we are not delivering um right now um for the American people with regard to this type of infrastructure. Towers um have special challenges.
▶ 1:50:54it um it's not as though you can just site them anywhere and um in the US contract tower association that I've been a part of through AAA we have toured a number of these types of towers across the country and we know that there will be a potential to sweep the AIG funding that is unobligated into the federal contract tower program.
▶ 1:51:19Uh the selection process however for towers that would qualify for replacement um is another example I think of where this committee could ask and and practice more oversight on the FAA in terms of their decision-m.
▶ 1:51:34Um I know that um in some places the decision-m uh was um also um influenced uh by other factors um such as where was uh the um location of that tower within a census tract of maybe a disadvantaged uh you know uh part of a city or or metropolitan area. Um and I know that there were other towers that were very deserving that some of those unfortunately fell just outside of those areas.
▶ 1:52:04So I think that with regard to how we use bill ATP types of programs in the future, I would look to that funding of of towers around that, if this committee can figure out a way to extend that type of funding, I think towers should be a priority. Thank you very much. My time is up and I yield. Mr. Chair, gentleman yields. Miss Powell, you're recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, good morning to all of you.
▶ 1:52:33Um, first of all, let me just say that, you know, airport workers, from mechanics to flight attendants to air traffic controllers certainly work very hard to keep flights on schedule and make sure that everyone arrives safely at their destination. And those workers deserve safety just like passengers.
▶ 1:52:55In February, I met with uh TSA officers from New Jersey as well as New York and heard about the verbal and sometimes physical attacks that they endure from unruly passengers. They share them that many of the perpetrators of those assaults are never uh charged.
▶ 1:53:17This type of violence is absolutely unacceptable and I certainly look forward to working with my colleagues on this on the committee to ensure a a safer uh and better environment for all of our transportation workers. But along those lines, Mr.
▶ 1:53:34Sutton, in your testimony, you discussed the abused face uh the abuse that's faced by a uh gate agents as they work to enforce airline policies and support passengers in the case of delays or cancellation. What impact does this type of behavior have on customerf facing airport workers and does it impact employees retention? Yes, miss. And thank you.
▶ 1:54:04Thank you for the question. So, a lot of the folks that are I I consider them the frontline employees. They directly deal with the public anytime something bad happens at an airline. They're the first ones that are looked at. Generally, they're the customer service agents that now make the changes, the rebookings, and all of these things.
▶ 1:54:27And a lot of folks today are just very impatient and sometimes they act out on their emotions and they do things that maybe in a normal setting they would not. But unfortunately people are lashing out and lashing out and those folks, the frontline employees are the ones that get the most of it. And it's it's just not deserving because they're there to do a job safely.
▶ 1:54:55uh they're there to try to make your travel experience an enjoyable one, but we all know things happen. And I think that if there's a way to solidify ways of protecting the frontline employees from such behavior um and maybe make it I don't know if this is even possible but maybe maybe make it a little harder for those individuals that maybe this isn't their first time acting out or being verbal or in some cases being physical
▶ 1:55:26but we have to make sure and maintain that there's a safe working environment. Thank you. Thank you very much. You know, I want to just shift topics for just a sec real quickly because I want to make sure that my time doesn't run out. Uh Teter Airport, um which is in my district, is one of the busiest general aviations, uh aviation airports in the country.
▶ 1:55:49How would um how would improvements to the FAA air control uh technology and staffing impact your members especially as at the bottleneck in the nation's airspace that frequently experience delays and cancellation.
▶ 1:56:10What do you You know, it becomes very challenging because sometimes we don't have control over the environment or the weather. And if there's ways to establish secondary measures that can be invoked when situations arise, I think that's most important.
▶ 1:56:35contingency plans are something that we can fall back on and hopefully uh with the proper communications with everyone involved we can establish some kind of a policy that does work. Thank you. Thank you very much. I I realize that I have a very short time and perhaps maybe this mean you may not be able to give me a full answer but could you please Mr. Crawler and Laner Laner.
▶ 1:57:00Uh what kind of updated uh airport funding options would give airports and their communities uh control over how to best address their individuals needs especially with respect to competition traffic and cap uh capacity. We have like less than 10 minutes. Sorry. In brief, um uncapping the PFC would accomplish um the majority of those objectives. Thank you. Thank you for that quick respond. With one second, I'll echo what Mr.
▶ 1:57:30Crowder said. Uncap the PFC allows you to build the infrastructure that can provide that competition for for customers. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Mr. Barrett for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our panelists for being here. Um Mr. Crowder, I'm not sure um uh the airport that you're um in charge of. Um were was that the uh departing aircraft for the life flight um back in October that had the fatal accident?
▶ 1:58:00Um there was a air uh air ambulance crew that was tragically killed back in uh I think it was in late October of of last year. Uh, I just had a a personal friend of mine was one of the crew members on that and I know they operated in your area and I didn't know if they had operated out of your uh airport or not, but I just wanted to extend my appreciation for all those that had responded to the accident um in that um in that particular um area. But thank you again for being here.
▶ 1:58:27Um question I had uh for the two of you uh that are here from uh from the airport executive side. Um, so I represent uh the district in Michigan includes the Lancing uh airport and as you can imagine it gets uh rather cold in Michigan. We get a lot of snow. We get a lot of ice. There's not a lot of great chemical like you can't just toss some, you know, can't go to Walmart, get some rock salt, throw it out on the runway. Obviously, we've got a lot of corrosion control measures that we have to be very mindful of when we're dealing with aircraft.
▶ 1:58:58You know, you can't drive down the road in Michigan and not see a car with rust over the wheel wells, but we don't want that on our airplanes for very obvious reasons. Um, so a lot of uh airports are left with mechanical means of removing the snow and ice on the runways. Uh, it's my understanding though that if an airport purchases a snow removal piece of equipment, they can't use FAA federal funds for the assembly or construction of a uh like a a garage or a warehouse that would house that.
▶ 1:59:27That is that Congressman? I can't speak to specifics of that whether or not that is eligible or not, but I think anything that Congress can do is provide as much elig eligibility for those types of things for airports, I think would be a good thing and really leave that decision-m in terms of with the limited funding we have from AIP, let that airport director decide where those investments need to actually occur that gets the best return on the investment for the federal government by giving it in the hands of the airport director. Okay. Yeah. I don't know, Mr.
▶ 1:59:57Crowder, if you have any thoughts on Yes, I I was I'm surprised at at that response from the FAA. Um it um concerns me that there's not common sense being um you know, applied to that issue. Regardless of where that equipment comes from, it it has to be protected to extend the life of the asset so it performs when we need it to perform. So, I think echoing Mr.
▶ 2:00:24Langu's comments is that this is a great example of uh the FAA potentially being maybe even inconsistent but certainly reaching through uh something to that level of detail where that that decision should really inure to the uh judgment of the airport professional. Yeah, sure. No, I I I do appreciate that.
▶ 2:00:43It's my understanding and speaking to my airport executive is that if they purchase the the vehicle themselves using funds that they have available for that they can't use then federal funds to build the the you know warehouse that it would be housed in which of course degrades the value of the asset makes it less reliable and everything else. Um so uh I think that's something we ought to be working on. The other um question I had for you is uh we do a lot of cargo at the Lancing airport and uh we're one of the major regional cargo hubs.
▶ 2:01:11Um and is it accurate that um cargo you know the takeoff and landing cargo related side of things gets less preference for how we can apply resources to an airport. I know for example we have cross runways and you know if we have a routine of a lot of cargo some of it very timely and sensitive overnight delivery and all those types of things and we have something that shuts down one of our runways we need to have a second runway available.
▶ 2:01:40And I don't know if that's given proper consideration by the FAA if they're involving cargo flights instead of passenger flights. And I don't know if you can shed any light on that. Thanks, Blink. U first of all, the the there are some limited financial resources for cargo entitlement funds that airports that have a significant amount of cargo can tap into. But just as we as the theme of of our testimony has been, they're very inadequate to meet the needs.
▶ 2:02:10And as you as you point out, in many cases, cargo aircraft are heavier and the pavements that are associated with heavier aircraft operations, they either they either um uh accelerate the deterioration of the life of the pavement or they need to be built stronger in order to take those types of of of aircraft. So I think back to your point, Representative Barrett, is that we need in general more funding so that we can direct towards cargo.
▶ 2:02:37And I think as far as the uh justification piece that you're talking about with regard to airfield capacity, you know, really one operation, one landing and one takeoff still counts against that total. Um, and so if you look at that runway capacity, like the volume of of this uh water jug, you have a certain amount there just like we all do. And it doesn't matter how much of that is filled up by cargo or passenger, it all adds up against the total.
▶ 2:03:08Um, obviously time of day and and so forth affects that, but those decisions really need to be made in terms of the cumulative impact of the operations. Thank you. I appreciate that. My time's running out. I would just tell you that in speaking to pilots that do that, they say that the cargo might be heavier, but it doesn't complain as much. So, thank you. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Gillan for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses appearing here today. Mr. Sutton.
▶ 2:03:34Earlier this year, a broad group of aviation stakeholders that included, among others, airports and TWWU, wrote Congress a letter with a united message expressing support for ensuring America has safe and resilient and modernized air traffic control system. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record without objection.
▶ 2:03:59So, one of the priorities included uh in the letter is exempting the FAA from government shutdowns. Could you describe the need and importance of that request and why it would be beneficial and indeed critical to exempt the FAA from government shutdowns? You know, I um I would like to have members of my staff formulate a response and get that to you because I don't want to speak out of turn. Okay. All right. All right.
▶ 2:04:29If you would if you would follow up, I would appreciate that. Thank you. Um, Mr. Landgth, you have a major runway project, uh, major terminal expansion on the horizon at RDU, which are both very important projects for your community, and my district borders not just one, but two major airports, JFK airport and LaGuardia Airport in New York. Could you tell us a little bit about the economic benefits to regional economies that come from making infrastructure investments at airports?
▶ 2:05:00Yes, it's interesting. The North Carolina Department of Transportation, Division of Aviation does an economic impact study every two years. They've recently just completed that study and they said that RDU has about a $ 24 billion year economic impact. Uh produces about $1.3 billion worth of state and local taxes. Uh, as we looked at air service recruitment, for example, we recently recruited Lufansa Airlines for non-stop service to Frankfurt.
▶ 2:05:24And we looked over a 25-year period, that one flight coming into the region over a 25-y year period was about a $3.3 billion economic impact. But in order to do that, you have to have a runway. And that's what we're working on right now is building that runway so we can provide that connectivity for people all over the world right from RDU. Thank you. And to follow up, according to the National League of Cities, taxexempt bonds have financed more than threequarters of our nation's infrastructure.
▶ 2:05:54And airports often use those bonds to build and renovate their terminals, their parking, and their maintenance facilities, and other structures to serve the public, create jobs, and generate revenue. Without access to this costefficient option, airports will have to cut back on critical projects to keep flyers and workers safe. And last week, I was proud to join a bipartisan group of my colleagues in sending a letter to the Ways and Means Committee to preserve the federal tax exemption for municipal bonds. Uh, Mr.
▶ 2:06:24Chairman, I again ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record. Without objection. So, Mr. Land, what impact would revoking taxexempt status of these bonds have on the aviation industry? So, actually, I thought about this about five o'clock in the morning and I I got to be honest with you.
▶ 2:06:40I use chat GBT to do the calculation, but um with over a billion dollars worth of debt we're going to wind up taking on, if you look at the tax exempt status, 100 125 basis points, you run that over a 30-year period, that's probably an additional 200 to 225 million worth of additional cost that's going to go onto a runway. Right now, the federal portion of my runway is about 11%. So, we are funding a large portion of this.
▶ 2:07:08And so taking away that further aggravates the challenges that we face at RD, which means we're going to build less and less infrastructure as a result of those types of decisions moving forward. Thank you. Um, one more question. I have about a minute left. Uh, so my, again, my district on Long Island is right next to JFK International Airport and one of the biggest issues we face is legacy contamination in our water.
▶ 2:07:36Uh traditional firefighting foams that were used at airports contain toxic pifas and those can cause serious health problems including cancer, liver damage and immune system disorders. Thankfully, Congress has recently authorized a grant program to help airports transition to PAS free phones as quickly as possible to protect the health and safety of uh our communities. So, Mr. Crowder, can you please speak to the importance of Congress fully funding this program?
▶ 2:08:07Uh, thank you, Representative Gillan. It's very important. Um, the realities of of PAS and groundwater, I think, are going to um continue to um become better known and understood. Um it's a very complex issue because the of the pathways um and I think there's over something like 9,000 um you know originators of some type of POS or PFOA in groundwater.
▶ 2:08:34Um the use of firefighting foam which of course airports were federally mandated to use. Hence I think the importance of Congress stepping in with financial support and regulatory support is very important. And I think that right now the first step which was very important was this transition to florine free foam and I think that's gone very well um across the United States and the financial assistance is very helpful.
▶ 2:09:00I think future phases are going to be more challenging financially in terms of how do we go out and actually figure out how much of what is coming into the groundwater is generated by AF legacy use. You also have formerly used defense sites at a lot of airports uh that actually complicate that uh as well. And so I think it is something that the industry is going to have to work very closely uh with Congress um to go forward with.
▶ 2:09:28And I think the final thing is that because it's a federal issue and because airports were federally mandated to use it, I do think that there are a number of airports across the country that are running into challenges um with their state level of environmental protection um equivalents um and their different interpretations potentially. And so I do think there's an opportunity uh for Congress to step in and level set that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentle lady yields. to now recognize Miss King Hines for five minutes.
▶ 2:09:58Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our guests for making the trek out here to share your experiences and wisdom. I represent the Northern Marana Islands, a US territory in the Western Pacific that is both geographically isolated and strategically vital to our national security. In the Marianas, our airports aren't just travel hubs. They're they're critical lifelines. We rely on them for access to health care, education, commerce, and disaster relief.
▶ 2:10:29But right now, our infrastructure is aging. Our runways and terminals haven't seen serious upgrades in decades. And with the collapse of our tourism economy, which is our only industry, the financial viability of even maintaining basic airport operations has been pushed to the brink. The consequences extend beyond our local economy. The Department of Defense is expanding its footprint in the region, particularly on the island of Tinian.
▶ 2:10:53But those military activities depend on civilian airports that are underresourced and in danger of declining further. If we lose the ability to sustain these operations, it won't just hurt our people, it could actually undermine national defense strategy in the Indo-Pacific. And so I'm very grateful for the opportunity to have this conversation um and to review the FAA reauthorization act to explore critical ways in which we can address some of these issues.
▶ 2:11:22Um I believe we need formulas that go beyond employment numbers and consider economic need, geographic isolation and strategic importance. We need more flexibility not just for capital projects but also to cover operational sustainability especially in airports where flights have dropped or disappeared altogether.
▶ 2:11:41And one of the things um that I really appreciate about this conversation this morning is the ability to get insights from industry experts as to how we can make suggestions on how to improve the FAA reauthorization act to address some of these challenges. And so um this is a question to the airport operators.
▶ 2:12:02I just wanted to hear um what are your thoughts or what have you seen in in term uh successful strategies that you have seen or would recommend to help smaller or remote smaller or remote airports attract and retain commercial air service so that smaller hubs like this could be self- sustainable and that's an open question to either of you and how could the FAA support actually achieving that goal.
▶ 2:12:34Yeah. So, talking about air service recruitment, um you know, air service recruitment is driven by demand at the end of the day, right? So, having the market there to support that um you can put together air service development strategies, you can put incentive programs in place, but ultimately at the end of the day, if the market's not there, it makes it very difficult for the carriers to want to in uh get into that system.
▶ 2:13:00Uh I know there is a small grant program, smaller service grant program that the uh um Congress has actually approved and FA administers on an annual basis. That's a great tool for that community to actually use and and go after those types of opportunities. But success kind of builds on itself that if you can get that one and continue to grow and then get a population growth, business investment growth, those types of things, that's what's really going to kind of drive overall growth. At RDU, uh it was a lot about new investments.
▶ 2:13:29It's one of the fastest growing states in the country. Uh, also lots of people moving into it. Uh, when I started 10 years ago, we had 37 different non-stop destinations. Today, we've got 80. It's a really good example is that your market will drive a lot of that growth. You can try to provide some level of subsidy, but that subsidy will have a limited effect if the demand is clearly not there.
▶ 2:13:51Now, I would be more than happy and I think my counterpart Larry would be happy to come to you and visit you uh out in the island to see that firsthand provide some additional recommendations. Uh but it is really market forces that drive that at the end of the day. And so maybe a little investment uh can kind of nudge those things, but overall markets got to be there. I agree.
▶ 2:14:12And I would just add that I I think it goes back to this flexibility piece and um you know what is the right place for the FAA to be um and not be and there have been a number of of regulatory attempts around air service in terms of how airports can use their funds uh to provide financial incentives uh for attracting airline service and there's some limitations on that in the revenue use
▶ 2:14:42policies um as well as some other specific FAA policies. And I think that the majority of airports would like to uh see the FAA really not um involved in those types of decisions um and that they would again have more flexibility on how they can use their funds. If their top priority is to use their funds um in a manner like this, as long as all of the requirements are being met to operate the airport safely, that should be basically uh the extent to which they're Thank you for that, Mr.
▶ 2:15:12Chairman. I owe back my time. Mr. Stanton, you're recognized for five minutes. Thank you very much, uh, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the witnesses for being here today. This is important hearing. Last Congress, uh, one of our big accomplishments was the reauthorization of the Federal Aviation Administration. And in that, of course, we did prioritize the airport improvement program, building on past investments from the bipartisan infrastructure law authorizing AIP for a total of $20 billion for the 5-year reauthorization.
▶ 2:15:41AIP grants provide essential funding to improve safety, expand capacity, enhance efficiency at airports nationwide, ensuring long-term sustainability for our airports and the communities that we serve. I used to be mayor of Phoenix and so Sky Harbor Airport was in my city. Um, and it is the bestrun airport in America. No offense to the other airports represented on today's panel. Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport is no exception. We have utilized AIP smartly.
▶ 2:16:12We've grown. Earlier this year, they've received 84.3 million to support the construction of a 2100 foot taxiway bridge to accommodate increased aircraft operations, reduce delays, and improve airport efficiency. This is critical infrastructure.
▶ 2:16:29The new taxi way will bridge north and south airfields on the west end of the airport, allowing more efficient airfield operations and enhancing the airport's ability to handle increased air traffic, ultimately benefiting passengers, airlines, and businesses throughout the state. That smart investment will allow a three-runway airport to operate like a fourrunway airport because of more efficient operations. Airports are the hub of growing local economies. Sky Harbor serves over 40 million passengers annually.
▶ 2:16:59It's a center of commerce and tourism for Arizona, the most important economic engine in the state of Arizona. More than 47,000 people employed at Sky Harbor. It has a 44.3 billion annual impact to the state and that number is growing. It's not just people. It's moving thousands of tons of cargo that arrive on the tarmac every day. Goods to be trucked around the state or delivered to homes in the valley. And Sky Harbor connects local communities to the global market, brings in billions of dollars for our community.
▶ 2:17:30That is good for our growing economy and sustaining good jobs. That's the fuel that keeps Arizona going and money back in our local economy. Mr. Langth, you oversee another busy airport in as in rally Durham. How has increased investment and formula changes in the AIP impact not only your airport but your local economy? And do you have a a similar story that I just told about Sky Harbor? Yeah. First of all, I don't know if you know this, but I was actually an intern in Sky Harbor years ago.
▶ 2:18:00So very familiar with the airport team does a really good job at Phoenix. You should be very proud of what their leadership does day in and day out. Um, you know, in terms of the AIP, again, the the the item that I love most about the reauthorization was the PSC turnback. Uh, that allows a better proportion of dollars that are coming to the medium uh and large size hub airports. If you think about a lot of the growth that's occurring, a lot of your medium-sized up airports are the fastest growing airports in the country.
▶ 2:18:26Think about uh airports like Nashville, airports like Austin, they used to be medium hub, they're now large hub. You see the track that we're taking that will probably be a large hub as well in the not too distant future. And so those types of improvements you can make from an AIP standpoint go a long way to improving a lot of the infrastructure that we have. uh we will take all those dollars we get with that AIP and we will put 100% of that towards building a runway that's really near end of life.
▶ 2:18:51The federal government is at its best when we are a great partner to local government, local communities and the AIP program is a great example of that. We've made some big investments and they have had some big payoffs. Some of these investments are under attack. One of the first things President Trump did in office was to target grant funding related to sustainability, pausing grants from the inflation reduction act and the bipartisan infrastructure law, putting them under review. This is a big problem.
▶ 2:19:17We as Congress have voted on these bills and the president had signed these bills into law. It's unclear if the administration is targeting all things related to sustainability, things like sustainable aviation fuel, sustainable materials and construction, or simply trying to single out certain grants like electrical vehicle charging. Uh but all of that was voted on by Congress and signed by the president and needs to move forward. Withholding funding or unnecessarily changing the conditions of the funding is unlawful.
▶ 2:19:46This is causing confusion for our local and state partners at Sky Harbor. This could mean charging and fueling. A charging and fueling infrastructure grant of which we awarded 15 million could be gone. A $10 million grant providing essential roadway safety improvements and infrastructure communities adjacent to uh Sky Harbor, a very high poverty area that needs these investments and better connecting the downtown businesses that could also be at risk. And these are investments to connect communities and grow our local economies in Arizona. Mr.
▶ 2:20:15Crowder, you're CEO of Cincinnati Northern Kentucky International Airport. How is the local airport a hub for your community? What's at stake if federal investment ends or is significantly cut? Thank you, Representative Stanton. And we are all big Chad Makovsky fans here, by the way. Uh does a great job running Phoenix Sky Harbor with his team. uh with regard to um how these types of of moves would impact us.
▶ 2:20:40Obviously, any move that is going to remove or otherwise complicate uh the amount of money that's delivered or the time frame in which that is delivered um is definitely a threat uh to our ability to put that money to work as Mr. Langu pointed out on important capital improvement uh projects that as as we've talked about uh often take years uh to develop.
▶ 2:21:06So with regard to um we have not seen guidance yet on some of these things and obviously are waiting guidance to come out in order for us to determine what what happens next. But I will just point out that we also receive not in not not just in funds appropriated by Congress from AIP, but we also have been uh involved in receiving flowthrough funds from our metropolitan planning organization around some of the sustainability goals.
▶ 2:21:31A lot of that in Cincinnati Northern Kentucky International is around electric vehicle charging and we are proceeding with those projects. Those those those grants are under contract. Um and then the other I would just say that I think we're um concerned about long term uh is sustainable aviation fuel.
▶ 2:21:47Um this is a very important uh issue for one of our hubbing cargo carriers, DHL, and we're going to really be concerned in terms of what do we see coming out with regard to uh the delivery of staff uh at our facility. Thank you. I yield back. Chairman, Mr. Herd, you're recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Chairman Nelss and Ranking Member Cohen for holding this important hearing. Last year, Congress passed the 2024 FAA Reauthorization Act. I was not a part of that.
▶ 2:22:15I was not yet a member of Congress, but I am this year a member of the highways and transit subcommittee, and we're going to be looking at surface reauthorization this My one of the issues that's important for people that live in my district in Colorado's third congressional district um is the issue of congestion on roadways to airports.
▶ 2:22:37And for example, Denver International Airport, uh which is used by many in Colorado's third congressional district for flights, has seen an 80% increase in daily traffic from 1995 to 2003. And yet we haven't done a good job of keeping up with the roadway infrastructure in particular. Um Mr. Lang, I wanted to ask you in your testimony, you highlight your experience managing an airport servicing the fast growing research triangle park.
▶ 2:23:03Do you see airports benefiting from better multimmoal connections and uh including improved road capacity and networks to the airport and upgraded interstate ex comes that is a great question and very timely for RDU because one of the key projects we have as part of our vision 20 240 and the $2.5 billion investment is just that making a roadway improvement. You may not be familiar with RDU but there's a big kind of a loop road. Think about a horseshoe that goes between two different terminals.
▶ 2:23:34I will tell you during the holiday period and during the kind of the evening period we have traffic that backs up all the way back up to what we call Interstate I40. We're going to make about $175,000 investment, make lots of improvements in terms of providing additional curb space uh for our airport, but also trying to improve the flow through that through that area as well.
▶ 2:23:54Also develop what we call a ground transportation center to take some of that activity actually out of that roadway system and put it into a central core uh to continue to expedite uh customers in and out of there. We're also talking with our local community. our local community's got an interest developing what we call a BRT, bus rapid transit, and finding some way for us to connect out to the interstate directly into RDU.
▶ 2:24:16We're looking at things like uh autonomous vehicles, uh electric autonomous vehicles that could run that route in there and get people off that interstate and quickly get in without creating any more congestion. So, a lot of thought is being put into those types of things for airports across the country. It's an important issue and something that Congress should continue to consider from a funding standpoint. Right now, we're not receiving any funding. We have to make that investment because our customers expect a better level of service. Mr. Lang, thank you for that answer.
▶ 2:24:43What is the what would result if we don't make those investments in roadway and capacity increases? What would that mean for a busy airport like yours and a busy airport like Denver International Airport? Probably a phone call from my board of directors wanting an explanation as to why that's the level of service we're providing our customers. It's not acceptable. And so if there isn't funding there, what larger airports can do and what we are doing is we're taking on long-term debt to fund those types of things. Small airports don't have that luxury. They're not generating enough income.
▶ 2:25:11And with a cap of $4.50, it restricts them even further. So providing funding for the small airports is important. Larger airports, we're going to make those investments. Hopefully we can get funding, but if not, it's got to be done. It's not the level experience we want our customers to have when they come to RDU or any airport across this country. Great. It's bad for airports. I hear that. Uh, Mr. Crowder, question for you.
▶ 2:25:35Before I came to Congress, I was proud to serve my community as vice chair of the Grand Junction Regional Air Service Alliance, where I worked with our airport to improve air service availability in our region in western Colorado. When it comes to planning and developing airport infrastructure projects, how can we encourage collaboration between airports and local governments and community stakeholders? what are some what are some best practices that you've seen in your Thank you, Representative Herd.
▶ 2:26:02And and I think this also goes back to some extent about your earlier question uh with regard uh to roadways. And I do think one of the the uh issues that we see is that there are some silos out there um in federal agencies and federal programs and transportation. And I think that there are opportunities for us to maybe look at things in in a more collective manner and maybe look at blending funds um in order to achieve some of these multimodal objectives.
▶ 2:26:32And I've served on the boards of many metropolitan planning organizations in my career. Um, and I've watched that struggle of trying to figure out what, you know, what funding mechanism can we use to try to either improve access to an airport or is there ways that the community could use funds and flex those funds into something that may benefit the airport either directly or indirectly. And I think a lot of it has to do with structure.
▶ 2:26:56And so I hope that um the committee will look at structure um in terms of providing that kind of flexibility. I would also uh say that I've been involved in a number of projects around airports in my career where we have had to go back and make surface transportation improvements uh for runway safety as an example by rerouting roads around the runway protection zone um as as I've done in a couple of uh of airports and that does require that kind of uh cooperation between the community and the airport
▶ 2:27:26and then also that approach to using flexible local funds. So again, flexibility, local decisions. Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields. Mr. Garcia, you're recognized. Uh thank you, uh Mr. Chairman, uh the witnesses, uh here today for this very important hearing. Uh in the FAA bill that we passed last Congress, uh it requires a review of airport ramp worker safety.
▶ 2:27:56This review uh would serve as the basis for improving safety protocols, including updated training materials for ramp workers and supervisors alike. Ramp workers uh operate in a noisy, quick-paced environment. They direct uh and service aircraft and ensure our belongings make it from point A to point B.
▶ 2:28:22Ramp workers play a crucial role in air travel, but the job is a dangerous one. At least five ramp workers have been killed, as has been noted here since 2023. And earlier this year, a ramp worker at O'Hare was critically injured after being pinned underneath a tug vehicle. Despite this, the FAA has been slow to conduct its safety review. Uh Mr.
▶ 2:28:48Sutton, uh, as a ground worker with experience, your, uh, perspective is invaluable. Can you tell us about the safety concerns that you've witnessed Yes, sir. And thank you. So again, we recognize things in our work group, in our work areas that we have tried to push up to a higher level to get recognition that there's truly a issue.
▶ 2:29:18And thus far, we have had no um confirmation of any ramp worker safety studies that are going to be conducted by the FAA. there's no interaction with the FAA to go and take what we have been touting as an issue forward. Um there's just no resolution to some of the day-to-day problems, but we try to manage and minimize as much as we can, but the issues still are there. They're still present.
▶ 2:29:48We just need something that has a little bit of teeth as far as legislations or a policy or a procedure that actually protects the workers in their work environment. Uh thank you for that. Uh although it wasn't included in the final FAA, my good jobs for good airports act bill would have provided minimum wage workers uh and uh benefits for airport service workers including ramp workers.
▶ 2:30:16Uh airport workers, many of whom are Latino African-American work long hours for poverty pay to keep our airports running. And they deserve better. Mr. Sutton, can you speak to how bolstering airport worker wages and labor protections can benefit airports as a whole? Yes, sir.
▶ 2:30:38So to make the job more attractable, to get more and more people to come to us for employment, wages are crucial because we're living in a time where a lot of people can't afford a lot of things and we have to protect wages at all cost. And by doing so, it attracts some of the the best and some of the brightest.
▶ 2:31:03And in some cases, you touched on it earlier, these airports are a crucial part of communities and they serve a purpose. And if someone can get a job at a say a major airline and the airport is say 20 minutes away versus someone that may have to travel 2 hours away, you know, economically it makes it more um conducive.
▶ 2:31:29So the protecting the wages is extremely important any way that we can and trying to get as much uh safety protocols to not only protect you with wages, but when you once you're there making your decision to do this job, you have protections that's going to protect your health and safety while you're at work. Very well. Uh thank you, Mr. uh Sutton. Um and Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields.
▶ 2:31:59I now recognize Mr. McDow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for testifying before the subcommittee today. Uh, Mr. Lang, it's always good to see another North Carolinian up here, and so I appreciate you joining us. We know that that airports use the the passenger facility charge to finance airside capital projects.
▶ 2:32:23Can you describe the process by which the PFC is approved by the FAA? What what changes were made in the FAA reauthorization act and why you do or do not feel that those changes were Okay, great question. Um, it starts kind of uh with uh filling out kind of a pre-application with the FAA.
▶ 2:32:50Uh trying to kind of sell your project and trying to get their approval on that project. Um little bit of a lengthy kind of going back and forth. Um then you fill out an actual application, define what the costs are going to be. Uh it's a pretty um I would say lengthy process that we wind up going through uh for a PFC application.
▶ 2:33:11I might have what I consider to be kind of a counter to that in terms of maybe there's a different way for us to do this at the end of the day and maybe a different way to do this is why don't we put the people in charge of this process and the way we do this is the airport would simply submit to the uh FAA a notice of intent that says these are the projects these are the associated values as long as it sits on some sort of approved list which is runways tax ways those types of things then all the FA's role would wind up being in this new model would simply be uh putting
▶ 2:33:41in the Federal Register to allow the general public to understand what would be out there. Then let's turn it back to the airport operator to engage the public in this conversation to have a public forum to allow not only the airlines to come in as part of their consultation with us to publicly address their concerns that they have with the PFC. Let the public come forward and express those concerns and let the governing body in the local community make the decision and take a public vote on that particular matter. And if they take the public vote and the public says this is something we want.
▶ 2:34:10The public has made that decision, we then simply have to turn back to the uh FA and say this is what the people want. This is what we want to implement. So So I think that the streamlining process that I've laid out is a much better process that could actually be put into play uh to improve the overall process from a PFC standpoint and put it in the hands of the citizens that are the ones that are actually paying the fee in the first place. Thank you.
▶ 2:34:35In your testimony, you provide an account of the significant challenges that RDU, which is an airport that gets me to and from Washington safely uh quite a bit, but um RDU's encountered uh with replacing the airport's main runway of which have had to do with the length of time that that is associated with completing an environ environmental assessment for the project.
▶ 2:35:03Can you briefly quantify those costs uh of those delays for the subcommittee? I have not quantified them from a monetary standpoint, but I can tell you from a time standpoint, 7-year period to this point to actually get to that. I will tell you that uh in parallel when we reached out to the FA in 2016, we told them that our current runway, our 10,000 foot runway that supports all of our transatlantic service and all of our West Coast service was really reaching kind of end of life.
▶ 2:35:32And if we didn't do something quickly, we were going to have to get into a very expensive maintenance repair program. Right now, what we do is we do a night closure. So once my transatlantic service takes off, we get in and saw cut out a 25 by 25 slab. We shore it up, report, let it cure. That aircraft goes across the Atlantic Ocean, drops customers off, picks it up, and then comes back 19 hours later and lands on that runway. We've had to do that 300 times. The cost is $100,000 per slab. We spent $30 million.
▶ 2:36:01We're going to spend another 20 million. We're going to spend 50 million. So, the delay of just maintaining the infrastructure is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood between 50 and $70 million, which is not reimburseable under the AIP program. Regarding the additional cost for the consultants, I'll be more than happy to get our team to put together an estimate, but really it's been trying to maintain that runway to keep us alive and not lose all the service that we have gained over a short period of time.
▶ 2:36:27With the remainder of my time, I would just like to point out that that is astounding um that that uh an environmental assessment would would do that kind of harm to what you're trying to do. So, I appreciate you being here today and Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Kabaha for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for having this important briefing, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
▶ 2:36:52I want to bring it attention to an issue that has been detrimental to US airports, PAS contamination. For decades, the FAA required that US airports use these harmful chemicals in their firefighting foams, and airports have done so in good faith to keep the traveling public safe.
▶ 2:37:12In the FAA reauthorization bill, which passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support, we authorized funding to help airports transition from these outdated foams to newer, safer florine-free foams F3. Now, we need to ensure those funds are appropriated.
▶ 2:37:31I am proud to serve as a Democratic league lead on a bipartisan letter with my colleague, Congressman Mike Lawler, urging the House Appropriations Committee to allocate 100 million for this transition. I hope many of my colleagues here on this committee will consider signing on to this bipartisan letter to fund a provision we on the transportation committee authorized in the FAA bill. Mr. Lanth.
▶ 2:38:00I work with Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larson, and my colleagues across the aisle to include the PAS airport transition program in the FAA reauthorization bill signed into law. As I mentioned earlier, I am fighting to ensure this program gets funded at the necessary levels to protect our community's public health. In the interim, can you discuss what the FAA is doing now to help airports in their transition to these new foams?
▶ 2:38:30Yeah. So, I will tell you that this POS issue is a very very complicated issue. We do appreciate uh the legislation, the funding for uh trying to deal with the AF and find a replacement solution. Uh the FA has put out guidance document uh about uh the replacement type material you can use.
▶ 2:38:49Um, but I think Congress needs to recognize that the regulatory framework for environmental cleanup is still very murky at this point in time in terms of what disposal standards look like, treatment standards look like, who can handle how you deal with that, all those things are not very clear. So, while we appreciate it making the transition to a new type of foam, the disposal of this and handling this material has still not been solved at a national level or even a state level. And it creates tremendous concern for airports.
▶ 2:39:19I used to work in the environmental business and we'd always talk about cradle to grave. I've got to get that product to an end result that can be regulatory approved, not something in the future, but before I put it there to ensure that I can clearly get it in that location uh in a safe manner and I don't have any long-term liability. We don't have any asurances at this point in time. So, we appreciate the funding, but it is a very complex issue that is still developing as we speak. When you say developing, could you elaborate a little bit more?
▶ 2:39:47I mean, we know the complexity, we know it's a problem, the funds are there, but what steps are being taken? So, again, right now, EPA has identified as a hazardous substance, but we don't have treatment standards that are out there. We don't have disposal stands out, disposal standards that are out there. Uh, the changing of this material is not kept pace with the changing from an environmental standpoint of what those regulations are for disposal and cleanup. At the end of the day, that's the challenge. Thank you, Mr. Langoth.
▶ 2:40:15My home state of California is home to 29 airports which have created and sustained 1.6 million jobs and generated $230 billion in total economic output. According to the Airport Council International, North America's latest infrastructure needs survey, US airports face 174 billion dollars in infrastructure needs over the next 5 years, with California alone accounting for 24 billion of that total.
▶ 2:40:45I know that you touched on this in your testimony, but can you please elaborate on what we as members of Congress can do to help bridge the the funding gap? And will the $4 billion in federal funding through the airport improvement program recently enacted by Congress help? Or are there other sources of revenue that we need to consider? So great. So let's do the fun math here, right?
▶ 2:41:10So 174 million over five years translates into $34 billion a year of what your airports told you you actually need to build this critical infrastructure on an annual basis. The AIP program is4 billion. That's a $30 billion shortfall. So what you're asking airports across the country to do is use their bonding capacity to pay for all this infrastructure. And that's got a limited lifespan until you get to the point where you kind of get bonded out unless you're willing to continue to raise rates. So, what can Congress do?
▶ 2:41:40I think you've got a great tool out there. It's called the pastor facility charge. As I uh remarked before, a dollar increase in 2010 to today would have produced about $9.27 billion. So, a little bit of increase over a long period of time produces a tremendous amount of income that can be used for critical projects like a runway at RDU. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm out of time, but I do have one last question that I'm going to submit for the record for Mr. Sutton, if I could get an answer in the future, I would appreciate it. Thank you so much.
▶ 2:42:09Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Under for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for to the witnesses for being here today. U Mr. Languth, I was reading, you know, in listening to your testimony and reading your written testimony about the saga of the five left, two three right uh runway at RDU. Um you know, the primary runway delayed by over seven years. I I think um um I think Representative McDow asked you whether you had a number as to how much that cost.
▶ 2:42:39You didn't it didn't have an exact exact number. Yeah. So from a fiscal standpoint to maintain the current runway current investments over $30 million by the time we get the runway complete in 2029 just to maintain it's going to be $50 to $70 million. This doesn't include all the additional reports at the end. So it's not Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood. It's not completed yet. Oh no, sir. 2029. 2029. Yes, sir. We're under construction right now as we speak, as fast as we can.
▶ 2:43:06So, as I understand your testimony, one of the delays was the FAA requiring an environmental impact statement rather than an environmental assessment. Can you explain the difference between those two and why the impacts takes so long? Yeah. So in layman's term, uh, an EIS, environmental impact statement is, uh, actually run and and developed by the FA.
▶ 2:43:31If they feel like there's a higher level of potential environmental impact, um, or public scrutiny on a particular project, they may drive it towards an EIS. We had gone back and suggested after looking at all the evidence because we were building inside the current fence line, it made sense that an EA was the right way to go only to find out that after we provided that, they said, "No, we want to go with an EIS." And four years later, they reverse course and say, "Just kidding. We're going to go and do an EA." Oh, they went back to the EA. Okay.
▶ 2:44:00And that's what I didn't understand. This is there's already a a runway five left, 23 right. Yes, it's on the in the airport environment. It's, as you say, within the fence line, correct? It's a big slab of concrete. All we're doing is we're going to make a runway 500 ft, 550 ft from its current location, way parallel. That allows us to reconvert the existing runway into a taxi way, which then allows us to get into a gate program.
▶ 2:44:28Without moving that runway, you can't get into a gate program, and you're looking at a multi-billion dollar new terminal that would have to be built. It's the most cost-effective way to get additional gate capacity, but you have to move that runway first. And the current runway was built in 1985. It's truly at end of life, right? And there are, of course, environmental impacts to doing a project this big, but the runway's already there. Yes. You know, still going to obviously air planes landing and departing.
▶ 2:44:57You know, fuels are being burned, birds are being struck. We hope not. But so, okay. I it's it's just mindboggling. It's mindboggling that the FAA would delay the project that that dramat that dramatically. Yeah. How I mean, what reforms can Congress do to to fix this?
▶ 2:45:20I know you in your testimony you you said consider the recent FAA reauthorization act which includes language on alternative project delivery. quote, "The administrator approves the application using criteria established by the administrator." Um, I mean, what what can we do to fix this? Yeah. So, what I highlighted for you a little bit is sometimes when a laws actually get passed, a lot of times what you do is you might write something that well, the administrator will figure that out, right?
▶ 2:45:47And when you do those types of things, what the administrator is going to do, and they're they're trying to do the right thing, is they're going to go develop guidance documents. So they are going to interpret and develop that how they thought Congress wanted to put that together and typically that becomes a very long process at the end of the day.
▶ 2:46:03So what Congress what if they can be as specific as you possibly can each time you pass legislation then what it does is that the administration has got to follow the letter of the law and doesn't provide the opportunity to kind of expand and add additional requirements that may not have been the intent of Congress. Right. Right. Sort of a a Chevron problem. Um you you mentioned that I'm sorry uh the passenger facility charge PFC has been kept at 450 since 2000.
▶ 2:46:31You ar argued that modernizing it would help airports like RDU fund critical infrastructure. I can't think of many things other than maybe the Medicare fee schedule. I'm a physician that uh that have done that that have stayed steady since 2000. um how how would how would raising the uh the uh PFC impact air travelers and and uh what could that those additional funds be used for?
▶ 2:46:59So again for us it would be used for things like a runway right I mean if you look at the AIP formula uh and the criteria runway is typically our number one in terms of overall funding but if you look at the overall contribution we're going to see from the federal government my my entitlement is about 1% my discretionary is about 2% 3% is coming out of that program at the end of the day so that PFC does provide us lots of capability a $1 increase to me translates into over $8 million a year times 20 years that's $160 million for a dollar
▶ 2:47:29per dollar. Okay. So, a dollar would go a long way to help pay for critical infrastructure at the end of the day. Thank you. I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize a great member of this committee, Miss Schultton. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses uh for coming here today. This is such an important uh hearing. We know that airport infrastructure across the country uh is critically underfunded.
▶ 2:47:53uh the funding that we have been able to authorize and and get out uh to these uh regions has also been jeopardized by some of the recent uh changes in in the from the current administration and under doge. Now I have been outspoken uh since the beginning that we absolutely need to be spending our uh critical taxpayer dollars with uh discretion. We need to exercise fiscal responsibility.
▶ 2:48:24But the way in which this has been rolled out through Doge has caused grave uncertainty. Uh funding that had been promised but then rolled back has threatened aviation projects across the country. Last month, more than 16 million in TSA federal funds were held up for a terminal enhancement project at GRR. That's the airport in my district.
▶ 2:48:49Due to a Trump administration's executive order entitled implementing the president's Doge cost efficiency initiatives, these federal funds were on hold indefinitely and could have risked up to 55 jobs in West Michigan as well as incurred hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional project management and mobilization costs. This does not sound particularly efficient or fiscally responsible to me.
▶ 2:49:16Fortunately, my team and I were able to take quick action and advocate for the release of this funding, and GRR is proceeding on time with this critical project. But we don't know what would have happened if I had not intervened. While these TSA dollars are outside of this committee's jurisdiction, the the the story holds and illustrates how the Trump administration's chaos can harm infrastructure projects across the country. Mr. Mr.
▶ 2:49:42Langoth, can you please speak to how the uncertainty of indefinite pauses in federal funds could end up costing airport authorities and federal government more money at the end of the day? Yes, that's a great question. Actually, we just approved our budget. Uh, our board asked the exact same question as what about the uncertainty? How many grants or how many dollars do we have from an uncertainty standpoint? U, there's about $12 million as part of that BIL and that terminal program. We're not sure if that comes forward or not.
▶ 2:50:10Um there's also the bill that deals with BIL4 uh in entitlement formula. That's probably another 25 million that we've got at risk. U so we don't know at this point uh somewhere in the neighborhood 40 or $50 million that we're not sure we're going to wind up getting it. I will tell you our size airport and the critical projects we have, but we can't afford to stop. If I don't build the runway, I'll lose my current runway. Uh, and as I kind of joke with people, the only difference between me and a mall manager is a runway.
▶ 2:50:40I have to have a runway. And so, we have to move forward with that project. That means that we're going to have to underwrite that, take on greater risk. And I think that has a lot to do with maybe considering look at the investment that the federal government's making in some of these larger projects at airports and look at the balance between uh the regulatory requirement we're asked to do versus what we're investing. So right now 94% of that runway is paid for by RDU. The remaining balance is paid for by the federal government.
▶ 2:51:08So a 6% interest with all the regulatory requirements that we've got put on top of us. Seems like there's a something that Congress should look at about better equity there in terms of uh the investments versus the requirements that have been placed on airports. Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Sticking with you just for one second. In in your testimony, you highlighted the need for air traffic control reform. This is a a huge priority for me as well, including air traffic control facility investments and relocations.
▶ 2:51:37Um, as my colleagues on this subcommittee are well aware, modernizing and relocating GRR's 60-year-old air traffic control tower has been a top priority for me. Um, not only to boost traveler and air traffic control safety, but to ensure the that the growth that we have seen uh in this region can continue.
▶ 2:51:57Can you elaborate on how airport authorities and the FAA can work together to improve FTC uh ATC, excuse me, facilities as well as how Congress can encourage collaboration uh and expediency uh of both? Yeah, it was interesting. I recently read a publication or an article. It's called user fees are a market-based way to enhance air traffic control. And I thought it was very interesting. Does this provide us an opportunity? A very unique opportunity. It's interesting.
▶ 2:52:24The Secretary of Transportation was recently uh before legislative conference talking to airports about this very idea. You need to help us try to get innovative with coming up financing solutions and advocating to Congress for those solutions.
▶ 2:52:37Does this provide us an opportunity to take the PFC and not only uncap it for the infrastructure we need, but maybe there's a small portion that could be used for onsite ATC facilities because you heard what I've testified about my current air traffic control tower and its current condition. You've heard from other members as well as their current condition. Maybe there is some sort of innovative solution here that we need to explore deeper that maybe that could be a way of funding some portion of this ATC modernization. But airports are all in.
▶ 2:53:07Airports recognize at ATC infrastructure is extremely important for us to be successful and for us to be able to continue to grow and provide the services our community wants, which is continuing to travel. So maybe something for the committee to at least consider. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Gentle lady yield. And I'll recognize Mr. KN for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh to the witnesses here, it's great to see you all. Some for the first time, some for the second time in in a few weeks.
▶ 2:53:35Uh I'm a proud North Carolinian and and I fly in and out of RDU just about every week, sir. So, it's an honor to have you here. And uh when we met earlier this month, candidly, one of your uh comments to me about the the delayed runway construction and the project, it's one of the um paramount examples of bureaucratic inefficiency and one of those examples that just it just reeks of everything that's wrong with bureaucratic overreach.
▶ 2:54:05And I just want to go through some of the process again. It's been roughly a decade since this project began. Is that correct? Around 2016. Yeah. So, we began with a meeting in March of 2016 where we presented to the FA the current condition of the runway and we asked at that time for the ability to accelerate the environmental process to try to get that environmental review completed so we could get in get under construction.
▶ 2:54:30And at that point, was the FAA willing to to engage in an expedited fashion or I think after I look at the timeline it took us to get from point A to point B. Um, I think it took us a long time and I think we're asked to do things that uh, for example, we were asked to do an analysis of whether it should be an EA or EIS.
▶ 2:54:53We spent months putting that document together, paying for money to do that, and then on top of that, FA simply made a decision, well, we're going to do an EIS. We talked about the forecast. We developed a forecast. When we develop a forecast, we're talking to the CEOs for the airlines. we're talking to their planning team. That's who we're talking to. So, when we put a forecast together, it's because of firstirhand knowledge of what we think that carrier is going to do in our market, right? And we got into an argument about the forecast.
▶ 2:55:22That took more time. And this delay, just so I'm clear, that obviously affects your operational capacity, correct? Um, we were able to keep the Yeah, we were able to keep the runway open. Yeah. But it took a huge effort by the team RDU to do overnight slab replacements to keep that I'm getting there. But if you if you had been able to operate on an on an expedited basis within the same footprint within the same fence line. Yes, sir.
▶ 2:55:49The the airport would be operational in terms of a more efficient way. Correct. Well, think about this. As we came through and came out of the pandemic, everything went up significantly. Yeah. Yeah, if on 2016 we would have gotten an expedited process, gotten through an EA in in 12 months, we would have been in construction, that construction would have probably been done before the pandemic. We would have not seen these significant cost increase, gone up 2x. Yes, sir.
▶ 2:56:14Because lack of contractors, lack of supplies, supply disruptions, all those things just made this even more significant. uh from all the while it's forcing you to carve out and replace the existing runway which is not as safe as the alternative. Is that correct? I would say from a safety standpoint we're going to make sure that every airplane can get on that ground safely. I understand that but it's not the optimal solution. Is that correct? That is not the right way to run an airport. I'll tell you that.
▶ 2:56:42But it's what we had to do to keep that runway alive because again to lose all your trans uh Atlantic service, all your West Coast service, that is a huge financial hit to our community and wasn't acceptable. Well, let me ask you this. I'm running out of time. Are you out of the bureaucratic maze that you have found yourself in over the last nine years? Yeah, I think we we have a record of decision. We're under construction and now it's we're putting people to work, putting lots of people to work to build that runway as fast as we possibly can.
▶ 2:57:09So, I think we've kind of cleared that hurdle, but you know, if you kind of hindsight's always 2020, right? Yeah. The advice I would give you is why you establish a deadline of once you issue what they call notice of intent to begin the environmental process. There's lots of things AFA is asking you to do to prior to that. There is no schedule for that whatsoever. And one of the things they were trying to determine was, do you do an EA or EIS? We probably spent two years on that issue alone.
▶ 2:57:34Why don't we, if we simply sent a notice of intent to the FA and say this is a project on the ALP that you've already approved the ALP, why don't you go ahead and determine in 30 days it's an EA or EIS. That would have saved years just by doing that and costs and cost and it and when you think about loss dollars to the community, RDU is an economic engine for the whole state and slowing this project down for almost a decade. It's innumerable in terms of the dollars that we have lost.
▶ 2:58:03Again, when you look at this example, there's very little consistency. Obviously, there's very little oversight. I assume you tried to exercise every um lever of recourse that you had. There was no consideration for cost. There's no consideration for the delay. There's certainly no consideration for the local economy. I mean, I've seen a dirt patch for years at RDU, and it's just been absolutely stalled.
▶ 2:58:26Uh it's a disturbing example sir of the federal government large s that we don't have an answer to yet or an answer for yet and I hope that we can work after this meeting to uh really get into the weeds and figure out how we can prevent this type of costly delay in the future and again I thank you for coming up here and bringing light to this important issue. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Holmes Norton.
▶ 2:58:55Thank you, Chairman Nells and Ranking Member Cohen for holding this important hearing. Multiple aviation groups, including air traffic controllers and pilots, have spoken with me about the critical need to upgrade our nation's airport infrastructure.
▶ 2:59:13The increasing number of near missing misses, flight delays, ground stops, and cancellations illustrate the need to upgrade our Air Force air uh our airport infrastructure. Mr.
▶ 2:59:31Uh, Lans Languff, please explain why the current passenger facility charge revenue is insufficient to meet airport infrastructure needs and what steps Congress should take to establish more long-term funding. Thank you for the question. Yes, if you think over 20 years ago, we put a PFC in place to pay for our terminal 2.
▶ 2:59:58that PFC at $4.50, 100% of that is obligated until 2032. I don't have any additional capacity whatsoever. So that means everything else that we wind up doing with the limited AIP funding that mediumsiz hub airports actually get, if you don't have PFC capacity, that means you're going to have to bond it out. And so we're going to go bond out over a billion dollars worth of debt for our size airport, which is a lot of debt. Uh, and that makes it very challenging.
▶ 3:00:27It means projects will be deferred. Means you won't do a gate expansion to provide additional gates for a very growing community, one of the fastest growing communities in the country. That won't be available to you. We have a critical uh bridge we're trying to get across from our parking garage into the terminal itself to prevent customers from having to go across a walkway, a walkway that cars drive across. We won't be able to do that project either.
▶ 3:00:50So, it's had significant impacts in terms of our ability to be able to continue to grow and meet the demand of our community by not having the ability to have additional fees. And again, it's part of my testimony. I will continue to try to advocate for the citizens. Let's put this decision back in the citizens hands. Let's ask them the question. If I asked the the individuals in my community, you want to pay a dollar more for a runway? I think they unequivocally would say yes. That is important. You want expansion your terminal? Yes.
▶ 3:01:17Let's give it in the hands of those individuals and at the local level, let that be approved at the local level for the PFC. I think you'll find out the citizens are willing to pay more for the level of service that they expect and level service they want and they can see their dollar when they pay $4.50. They see it when they go through my terminal every single day.
▶ 3:01:38As co-chair of the Congressional Quiet Skies Caucus, I'm focused on combating aviation noise, particularly for airport airport adjacent communities like the District of Columbia, which I represent. Uh Mr.
▶ 3:01:56Uh, Crudder, in your um, you mentioned issues with the FAA approving updated noise exposure maps for your airport. This data is essential for reducing airport noise. What can Congress do to expedite this Thank you, Representative Holmes Norton, for that question.
▶ 3:02:24back to um a a common theme that we're discussing in this hearing is establishing deadlines. Um we submitted um our uh entered into the conversation and submitted our updates and it's been over 14 months since we've had that submission and they're still not approved.
▶ 3:02:46So I think that again the common theme that we hope that this committee hears and pursues is the importance of establishing clear deadlines so that once a noise exposure map and a noise compatibility program are submitted there is a certain number of days deadline for the FAA to take action.
▶ 3:03:08I think that has proven to be very helpful to the FAA and very helpful to airports and the communities that we Mr. Sutton, in your testimony, you discussed aircraft being serviced outside the United States where there are often weaker safety standards.
▶ 3:03:30Uh, I strongly supported provisions in last year's FAA reauthorization bill mandating stronger safety requirements aircraft service outside the United States. Has the FAA been implementing these policies and how can Congress ensure compliance? Uh, thank you. Um, to this date there's nothing being actually implemented. that seems to be our concern.
▶ 3:04:00Uh we got language, good language in the bill that affords us the opportunity, but again, nothing's being enacted upon. So it's it appears to be status quo when it comes to the work being done in facilities other than in the US but being given the liberties to perform these job functions without the same scrutiny that we have here in the United States.
▶ 3:04:35I yield back. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Mr. Dier for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I love your tie. We're friends. Um, I want to ask you a somewhat different question about the overall your business plans. Both cash flow given the current international economy. Um, I represent a district just east of San Francisco is crucial for goods movement.
▶ 3:05:04So, first on the cargo side, um we're seeing some pretty dramatic changes, not just at the ports, but throughout the the goods movement chain. So, cargo flights, uh but also on the commercial side on the West Coast. So, we saw this shift over the last two decades from the Atlantic to the Pacific being more similar in terms of both commercial, but particularly goods.
▶ 3:05:26So when I drive to the airport, I go across the Bay Bridge and I can see the number of ships waiting to offload at the Port of Oakland, which is the fourth busiest port in the United States, Long Beach and LA being the second. Huge impacts right now because the tariffs and just our relationship with the Pacific Rim. We have some adjustments to make, but I wonder in terms of your planning, maybe start with Mr. Crowder and also for the workforce.
▶ 3:05:50How do you plan for an environment from a near-term cash flow basis for your airport both on the commercial side given it looks like our we're going to drop pretty significantly particularly on the Pacific Rim and then for for for cargo uh it's something that we don't talk a lot about but seems like there's a pretty dramatic change in how long that will last.
▶ 3:06:13So the consequences of this aggressive policy by the administration to the reality of what's happening on the ground where there may be things there are things that we could agree on that we need to adjust in our relationship with China and Vietnam and other countries but the things that I don't think have been really thought thought through in terms of the damages we may be incurring to your operations or to the workforce. Thank you Representative Dalier.
▶ 3:06:39I think that uh your your observations um are uh very important as it relates to how airports need to run like businesses and not utilities and that's really uh an important shift that has occurred over time and and part of that is because of our uh challenge with resources and so for us my my initial thought as you were asking your question was how are we responding and and and the truth that of that is is to make sure that we have
▶ 3:07:10uh the best possible reserve situation that we can and the best possible cash on hand situation that we can. Um a majority of airports are challenged to keep certain amount of days of cash on hand uh relative to bond and denture requirements and and credit rating and so forth.
▶ 3:07:29But uh the the reality is that that will help us be able to adjust depending on what occurs as I think what we're seeing is that the cargo carriers um are going to have to basically and and and others are basically in the process of reconfiguring their supply chains.
▶ 3:07:50And what we don't know is will that actually move some types of goods to your point of of observation of the ships sitting in the harbor and looking at that will it get to a point where that moves some of these goods to airship. Um and so there could be some potential ways that our air cargo partners reconfigure their supply chains to continue to be profitable.
▶ 3:08:14But from our perspective uh that I think is the issue is planning for the um that type of variableness and uncertainty the best way that we can do that is by maintaining strong balance sheets but the predictability is important obviously Mr.
▶ 3:08:30up as far as the workforce goes and and I'm thinking about the the totalitar what am I trying to say the system across uh shipping cargo air cargo and rail taking it out into the into the rest of the country in areas like ours. So how do you schedule people? Are you worried about the fact that you're going to have job loss or it's just unpredictable?
▶ 3:08:54Well, a lot of the of what you asked um the work groups that we represent, we're merely a a byproduct, meaning this that through conversation and dialogue with some of the structure that is changing. We tried to do the best we can to accommodate. Now, we have language that gives us some protections from say job losses, if you will, but only to a certain point.
▶ 3:09:23So we can only do our part in the whole scheme of things, but I I feel that communications with all parties involved because it does and it will affect everyone eventually and we can only do what we can do from the scale in which we work. Perfect timing. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. The gentleman yields. Are there any further questions from any members of the subcommittee who have not been recognized? Seeing none, that concludes our hearing for today. I'd like to thank you.
▶ 3:09:53I thought this was a great hearing. Great hearing today. The subcommittee stands adjourned. No, I was just teasing. What? I was