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▶ 0:21:03Hallelujah. Hallelujah.
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▶ 0:28:38The subcommittee on highways and transit will come to order. I ask unanimous consent that the chairman be authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. I also ask unanimous consent that members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at today's hearing and ask questions. Without objection, so ordered. As a reminder, if members wish to insert a document into the record, please also email it to documents ti mail.house.gov.
▶ 0:29:09Now, before I uh deliver an opening statement, I understand that we have a big birthday uh coming up. Miss King Hines, I understand you'll be 30 years old. Is that correct? Happy birthday. I now recognize myself for five minutes for the purposes of an opening statement.
▶ 0:29:34Today's hearing examines key issues concerning our nation's public transportation programs as the subcommittee works to develop and enact an on-time multi-year surface transportation bill. The Federal Transit Administration or FTA provides funding and technical assistance to public transportation systems across the nation to move people safely, connecting them to workplaces, airports, doctor's appointments, and more.
▶ 0:29:59From buses and street cars to fairies and rail systems, transit systems connect our communities and have the potential to drive greater economic opportunities, especially in rural areas. Ensuring transit services reflect the needs of communities served while providing such services efficiently and safely is a goal all lawmakers share.
▶ 0:30:19Unfortunately, it's no secret the pandemic error restrictions and work from home policies made already declining ridership rates that much worse, resulting in a historic decline in overall fair revenue collections for transit systems of all sizes across the nation. In response, Congress provided FTA with nearly 70 billion in supplemental funding to cover short-term budget gaps, mainly for operating expenses and labor cost.
▶ 0:30:45Shortly after, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, or IG, as we call it, was signed into law in November 2021 and provided 108.2 billion for public transportation through fiscal year 2026. A alone authorized a 77% increase in federal funds for FTA compared to prior fast act authorization.
▶ 0:31:10When you combine both IDA and the supplemental COVID funding, nearly 180 billion federal taxpayer dollars have been directed to public transportation systems since 2020. Despite this significant investment, ridership today hovers around 79% of prepandemic levels. Concerningly, crime has become more rampant on several transit systems, endangering passengers and transit alike.
▶ 0:31:38The traveling public deserves better, and so do the men and women who work around the clock to trans, pardon me, to transport riders safely to their destinations. Congress must work to hold recipients of federal dollars accountable and ensure public transportation services are reliable, safe, and maintained to a certain standard.
▶ 0:32:00Thankfully, the Trump administration has taken federal investments in our transit system seriously and is directing certain legacy systems to reduce crime and fair evasion to improve security for passengers and workers. I commend Secretary Duffy for taking a strong look at this and conducting muchneeded oversight of these systems. We look forward to working with the administration to advance common sense reforms to improve the ridership experience.
▶ 0:32:27Now, with the structural deficits our nation is running, we can no longer afford to throw money at issues and hope to see changes. And this includes public transportation systems. We have an opportunity in the next surface bill to ensure public transportation systems have the flexibilities needed to deliver highquality services. Each community is unique in its ridership needs and its delivery of services.
▶ 0:32:51And while some systems have reduced or eliminated fairs in hopes of increasing their ridership rates, others have pursued innovative strategies to increase efficiency such as a reorienting services and routes, employing microtransit or expanding use of contracted services.
▶ 0:33:10It is always helpful to define what success is and it begs the question as to whether ridership is the appropriate measure to to determine the health of a transit system given the variation of factors that apply.
▶ 0:33:23I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about what they feel is working in the transit industry and what challenges transit systems face that this subcommittee may need to address as we work to reauthorize our nation's surface transportation I now uh recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Larson, for his opening statement. Thank you, Chair Rouser.
▶ 0:33:47And as we know, ranking member Norton is in a uh markup in a different committee that has its uh off its hearing room moved to the other side of the capital. So, it's taken a bit to get over here. So, I'll just step in to get us started and just note that the bipartisan infrastructure law has made landmark investments across all ways of traveling that keep people uh moving and keep our economy moving. That includes investments in transit.
▶ 0:34:16Now, Congress provided record transit investments uh that are improving safety. They're helping transit agencies purchase uh new buses and rail cars and therefore creating jobs and economic opportunity. Transit agencies are taking proactive steps to support ridership by redesigning bus networks, adding service on nights and weekends, improving frequency, and providing better pay at incentives to workers.
▶ 0:34:41Communities are reaping these benefits with the trans with transit rebounding to 84% of precoid ridership levels. Uh in my in my own district, um a lot of this is happening. Um all these innovations that the chair discussed are all happening in my district depending on the transit agency as well. Um, a lot of these investments have occurred in my district, including uh $15 million for Island Transit on Woodby Island that is uh exploring the purchasing of hydrogen fuel cell buses and fueling infrastructure.
▶ 0:35:11Uh, there's reinvestments into operation and maintenance facilities as well. Uh, these investments have brought over uh $58 million for Community Transit's Swift Orange Line BRT. that surface uh that service has been open for just over a year and has already transported 810,000 workers or I'm sorry writers. Similar investments are happening all over the country. The BIL included investments to broaden the reach of transit and ensure that transit works better for everyone.
▶ 0:35:40Congress created the all stations accessibility program to make sure we're living up to the promises of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Congress has provided support for ferry service in rural areas and investments in low emission uh vessels of the future. The BIL is replacing aging rail cars to make transit systems more reliable for travelers. And Congress also prioritize frontline uh protecting frontline transit workers and providing them the skills they need to operate and maintain the next generation of buses.
▶ 0:36:09These investments are as well boosting the economy and creating jobs. Transit provides economic security for those who ride transit systems and those who help build, maintain, and operate them. The transit in industry is significant is a significant job creator directly employing 430,000 people and of course supporting millions of private sector 77% 77% of federal public transportation investments flow to the private sector.
▶ 0:36:38And every$1 billion dollars that uh we authorize and get spent for transit provides um uh that we provide creates or sustains 50,000 jobs. And so today we'll hear a lot of testimony. We'll hear from the transportation trades department of the AFL CIO whose members proudly do these jobs every day. And I look forward to learning how Congress can continue to support transit workers in the reauthorization bill.
▶ 0:37:01But even businesses that do not have a direct tie to the transit industry reap these benefits since nearly nine out of 10 transit trips have a direct impact on on local economies. Transit is a tangible costsaver for individual families. According to one of our witnesses today, the American Public Transportation Association, the average household spends 16 cents of every dollar on transportation. And 93% of this goes to buying, maintaining, and operating cars, the single largest family expenditure after housing.
▶ 0:37:31By taking transit, living with one less car, the potential for households is that they can save $13,000 a year to spend on other things. Providing options to ensure people can get to where they're they need to go is uh even more crucial today as costs mount for Americans. Now, while the BIL made historic uh strides to improve public transit systems and service, transit systems require ongoing investment.
▶ 0:37:56The American Society of Civil Engineers estimates a $152 million a billion dollar backlog over the next 10 years to bring our transit systems up to a state of good repair. Disinvestment in America's infrastructure did not happen overnight, nor will it be fixed overnight. That's why we need to build on the progress that we made in the BIL. And I'm committed to developing a bipartisan transportation bill, and transit will be a key component of that.
▶ 0:38:25uh whether you represent a major city, suburban communities or rural areas like I do in my district all over the place. Um there are people regardless of how they get around, they do rely on transit and they are employed in the transit sector. So I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about how we can build on the success of the BIL and what we ought to be thinking about as we build the new surface transportation bill. Dial back. Miss Norton, you're recognized.
▶ 0:38:56I would like to thank subcommittee chair rouser uh for holding this hearing on our nation's transit systems. Transit is the backbone of communities of every safety safely and efficiently connecting people to jobs, health care, education, groceries, amenities and loved ones.
▶ 0:39:19The story of our nation's transit systems is the in the postcoavid era is a comeback story. Transit systems are steadily recovering from pandemic ridership loss. On average, transit systems have 84% of riders since the earliest days of the pandemic. a rebound that is evident across every mode.
▶ 0:39:49In some systems, that number is even higher. Here in the national in the national capital region, Metro recently surpassed 1 million daily riders, a five-year high. Metro has led the country in ridership recovery with 48 consecutive months of ridership growth.
▶ 0:40:16You don't have to be a transit rider yourself to celebrate these gains. Every dollar Congress invests in transit generates $5 in economic returns. Without public transit, DC would lose more than 9 billion.
▶ 0:40:35That's be with a billion dollars worth of economic activity due to traffic gridlock, delays in freight shipments, and lack of access to jobs. Transit is also the safest way to travel. Traveling by transit is 10 times safer than driving. uh 2020.
▶ 0:40:58In 2021, Congress delivered the largest transit investment in the nation's history through the infrastructure investment and jobs act. That law provided $18 billion dollar to upgrade and modernize transit systems in rural and urban communities alike.
▶ 0:41:19That law is helping transit agencies expand their service areas uh purchase newer uh greener fleets and and keep operators safe on the job.
▶ 0:41:34For example, Metro received more than 100 million dollars to transition to zero emission buses, which will reduce pollution, improve air quality, and keep the DC region on the move. Whether you are a transit rider or not, transit plays a crucial role in our transit system.
▶ 0:41:59Contrary to popular belief, there are more rural transit agencies than urban transit agencies. For many, riding transit is a choice. For others, transit may be their only option, including if they are in the 10% of the adult population which does not drive because of disability, a cost or personal choice.
▶ 0:42:26Transit is a lifetime lifeline that is safe, affordable, and climate friendly. I look work forward to working with my colleagues to continue this committee's long history of supporting transit in the next surface transportation bill. Thank you. Gentle lady yields back. I would now like to welcome our witnesses and thank them for being here. Uh Mr. Johnson, uh you have a constituent on the panel.
▶ 0:42:54introduce or introduce you to introduce her. Well, I hate to correct you, Mr. Chairman, but I don't have a constituent. I've got a friend. Uh Barb Klein since 1989 has been one of the really great transit leaders in South Dakota. And of course, things are different in rural America. Uh you all have mentioned that in your opening comments. Uh it's not always that easy to just dash off to the doctor's office or to the school or the grocery store or to work.
▶ 0:43:22and and Barb's agency, our Prairie Hills Transit, which started with one van and has grown to 60 vehicles that serves a 16,500 mile uh square mile area. It's just remarkable. And she has a passion and knowledge and we are all going to learn a lot from her today. Uh my friends, my colleagues, buckle up.
▶ 0:43:44You are going to get the full Barb Klein I understand, Miss Klein, your uh grandson Jackson is is with you. Jackson, where are you? Oh, right back there. I see. With that, let me also introduce Mr. Nat Ford, who's testifying on behalf of the American Public Transportation Association. We have Mr. Matt Bterball.
▶ 0:44:10I love that name, by the way, who's testifying on behalf of the North American Transit Alliance. Uh Mr. Baruk Fagenbomb who's representing the Reason Foundation and Mr. Greg Regan representing the transportation trades department of the AFL CIO. Thank each of you uh for for being here today. Now, briefly, I want to take a moment to explain our lighting system. Pretty self-explanatory. Uh there are three lights you'll find in front of you.
▶ 0:44:37One's green means go, yellow means time's about to run out, and red means wrap it up just as quickly as you possibly can. Uh, I ask unanimous consent that the witness's full statements be included in the record without objection. So ordered. I ask unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing without objection. So ordered.
▶ 0:45:02I also ask unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments and information submitted by members or witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. As your written testimony has been made part of the record, the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks, as mentioned previously, to five minutes. With that, Mr. Ford, you are recognized for five minutes for your testimony.
▶ 0:45:26Well, thank you and good morning, Chairman Rouseer, uh, Ranking Member, uh, Norton, Ranking Member Lawson, and Chairman Graves, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the American Public Transportation Association, better known as APTA. My name is Nat Ford and I have the honor of serving as the CEO of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority in Jacksonville, Florida.
▶ 0:45:52We are a multimmodal agency that operates public transportation in Northeast Florida and has the duties and responsibilities of an expressway authority. We have delivered on time and on budget transportation and infrastructure projects worth hundreds of millions of dollars. In addition to our road building responsibilities, we operate fixed route bus service, paratransit service for the disabled community and various mobility ondemand services as well as regional services, the St.
▶ 0:46:22John's River Furry, and a downtown automated people mover. The JTA is a longtime member of the APTA association which represents a 79 billion industry that directly employs 430,000 people and supports millions of private sector jobs across America.
▶ 0:46:41As this committee develops the next surface transportation authorization bill, we urge you to recognize that public transportation creates growth opportunities for businesses of all sizes and it creates good paying familyup supporting jobs. Transit not only connects workers to jobs and students to school and people to health care, it is an economic driver for the private sector.
▶ 0:47:0677% of federal public transportation investment flows to the American businesses. Transit capital projects support businesses in au in communities across the uh nation. Federal funding impacts over 2,000 suppliers in 48 states including Washington DC. And it also includes smaller urban and rural areas where buses, rail cars, and their parts are actually manufactured.
▶ 0:47:34Every dollar invested in public transportation generates $5 in long-term economic benefits. Our industry not only moves people, but it helps to drive the economy forward to success. As the recent nominee to lead the Federal Transit Administration, Mr. Mark Moliniro, recently said, "Transit is more than a system of buses, fairies, and rails.
▶ 0:47:58It's the shared circulatory system of our economy and it connects rural towns with big cities creating opportunity and driving growth. We call on Congress to continue to invest in transportation and infrastructure to ensure that public transit agencies can continue to address the 100 billion state of good repair backlog and meet the mobility demands of our people across this nation.
▶ 0:48:24Moreover, these investments create family wage jobs and help communities grow their economies. Public transportation is also embracing mobility innovation. We are ushering in new modes of transportation that will improve public transportation and serve as an agent of positive growth and investment in our country.
▶ 0:48:45Congress should also be forward thinking, enabling transit agencies to continue to be the leaders uh in this nation in adopting new technologies for our 21st trans uh century transportation system. In the wake of the pandemic, public transportation agencies have had to redesign our services. We've had to add mobility on demand options and we are creating an ecosystem for our riders to reach all mobility needs and options that they require.
▶ 0:49:14Transit agencies are harnessing new smart technologies to better serve our customers and enhance safety, such as using artificial intelligence to identify potential hazards for pedestrian safety and leveraging data to produce a stronger business model. In Jacksonville, we've embarked on a transformative plan to expand downtown Jacksonville's public transportation service by introducing autonomous vehicles into our system we call the ultimate urban circulator program.
▶ 0:49:43But more importantly, this program started with a build grant back in 2018 and now has been leveraged into a multi-million dollar investment by Holan, which is a subsidiary of the Bental Corporation, and it is selecting Jacksonville to build the first US produced groundup autonomous vehicles in this nation.
▶ 0:50:05This this 500,000q foot plant will generate an estimated $839 jobs with $63 million in labor income and $21 million in economic output. With that, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you and I look forward to your questions. I don't think I've ever had a witness that was perfectly timed, Miss Klein. Well, transportation was supposed to be on schedule, sir.
▶ 0:50:35Great answer. Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Holmes Norton, and members of the House TNI Committees, Highways, and Transit Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today as you review the nation's transit programs and policies in advance of reauthorizing the Infrastructure Investments and Jobs Act.
▶ 0:50:58I am here today both in my role as the executive director of Prairie Hills Transit located in Spearfy, South Dakota, and as a board member of the Community Transportation Association of America. Prairie Hills Transit serves a 16,500 square mile area in South Dakota. Our operation started with a single van 36 years ago. Today, we operate 60 vehicles with a staff of 60.
▶ 0:51:26In 2024, we carried 132,000 passengers, representing a nearly 5% increase from our prepandemic ridership. Prairie Hills Transit has been a member of CTAA since we provided that first trip in 1989.
▶ 0:51:43CTAA is a national nonprofit association providing training, resources, and advocacy for the nation's smaller transit network of more than 1,200 rural, small, urban, tribal, non-emergency medical, and specialized transit agencies.
▶ 0:52:02In addition to providing general public transit in our service area to jobs, school, supermarket, and much more, Prairie Hills Transit serves assisted living, nursing home, and medical facilities. 12 years ago, the major health care provider in our region contracted with us for right discharge trips, returns to home, out of the area, and trips between medical facilities. In addition to health care, veterans are a focus of Prairie Hills Transit.
▶ 0:52:33We operate a service for veterans living in 51 highly rural counties across South Dakota, Wyoming, and Nebraska. Within our service area, Hot Springs, Rapid City, and Sturgis all have veteran hospitals and clinics that generate a significant demand for our transit Last year, we built South Dakota's first propane fueling station.
▶ 0:52:58We now operate five propane buses and are seeing a $14 savings per vehicle per day, which allows us to serve more people more effectively. As a CTA board member, I'm here representing smaller transit. Despite smaller teams and budgets, these transit systems are highly innovative, deploying the latest technologies that improve their efficiencies.
▶ 0:53:27Across the United States, rural transit writership has recovered a 108% of prepandemic numbers. According to the most recent data from the National Transit Database, rural transit wrership has increased by nearly 25% since 2007, while the share of America's populations living in those same areas declined by 3%.
▶ 0:53:52Smaller transit systems generally rely on federal investment to serve their communities. Continued and adequate support of the transit fund formula programs is essential within federal transit discretionary or competitive programs. We need set aides that guarantee levels of participation for smaller transit agencies and allow systems like mine to only compete with other rural agencies.
▶ 0:54:22Coming up with local match is an increasing challenge for rural and small city public transit systems. The vast majority of federal transit programs require 20% local match. Rural and small city transit systems are required to match at 50%. The solution is standardizing the match rate for rural and small urban operating funds at 20%.
▶ 0:54:49This would not increase the federal spending on this level. A critical way that this committee can assist smaller transit is right sizing the regulatory burden. Like my operation back home, CTAA's members typically have small administrative staffs that perform a variety of job functions. My wrist written testimony provides a number of regulatory relief strategies.
▶ 0:55:14Smaller transit systems are highly effective and efficient providers that coordinate a variety of funding sources and contracts into vital mobility. Thank you for allowing us to tell that story today. I look forward to questions you might have. Thank you, Miss Glad, Mr. Booball.
▶ 0:55:35Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Norton, and members of the Subcommittee on Highways and Transit, on behalf of North American Transit Alliance, NATA, I thank you for the opportunity to testify on American Builds, a review of the nation's transit policies. My name is Matt Udderba. I'm CEO of RAPDev USA. I'm also a board member of NATA.
▶ 0:55:55NATA represents the six largest private transit contractors in the US including RATPD, Transdev, Kiololis, MV Transportation, We Drive You and Beacon Mobility. Collectively, our members employ over 71,000 people and serve more than 700 million riders annually. We operate a variety of transit services, including bus, rail, paratransit, and microtransit.
▶ 0:56:22NATA's mission is to advocate for the role of private contractors in providing safe, dependable, and cost-effective public transit. More than half of US transit agencies contract out services, and our members provide expertise that helps improve efficiency, safety, and innovation in transit systems Private contractors bring unique value to public transit, such as leveraging scale for better operations and maintenance support, operator
▶ 0:56:53training, and technology focuses, implementing innovations like alternative fuel vehicles and microtransit, offering competitive bidding that maximizes taxpayer value. Since the CO 19 pandemic, transit ridership has recovered to about 77% with significant growth in evening and weekend services.
▶ 0:57:13As Congress works on reauthorizing the public transportation program, we urge continued investment in public transit, which remains essential for many people and helps reduce traffic congestion. While the infrastructure investment and jobs act increased funding for capital expend expenses, operating expenses are still primarily funded by fairbox revenue and state and local subsidies.
▶ 0:57:39NATA members can help close the gap by delivering cost-effective services from micromobility and innovative operator recruiting to maintenance supply chain enhancements. Our members are pioneering innovative solutions to meet customer demand. I' I'd like to highlight just a few examples.
▶ 0:57:56RPD dev in Durham, North Carolina restored service to prepandemic levels and beyond well ahead of schedule and achieved record wrership and process by refining focus on operator recruitment and evolved focus on safety culture. Transdev in Nassau County, New York improved service through new fair systems and launched a new microtransit offering called NICE Mini that offsets more expensive big bus service while meeting the community's evolving transit needs.
▶ 0:58:24Kiololis partnered with the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, introduced popular $10 weekend fairs for those riding the metro, boosting ridership during the weekend as a new generation of riders use public transit, not just to commute to work on typical workdays, but to also spend time enriching their lives in the city of Boston on the weekends.
▶ 0:58:45and MV Transportation and LA DOT in Los Angeles also developed a microtransit service with a 97% rider satisfaction rate at a lower cost than other options. NATA's recommendations are as follows. Transit agencies should annually consider whether contracting out services could improve service and reduce costs.
▶ 0:59:07Before cutting needed services, agencies should evaluate through a formal RFP process if contracting out can maintain service levels at a lower price point. Congress and FTA should consider contracting practices when awarding discretionary grants assessing systems funded under the capital investment grant program. The idea being that those agencies with an eye on running the most cost-effective and efficient services should should be given priority on grant awards.
▶ 0:59:36Incentives and disincentives outlined in contracts should be limited to no more than 1% of annual contract value, encouraging competition and ensuring contract stability in a low margin industry. Related to actual contract contracting process and updated the FTA's best practice procurement manual to reflect current best practices and increase competition to include clearly defined scope of work and performance metrics during RFPs is essential.
▶ 1:00:05enabling the ability for negotiations to occur when unforeseen things happen and change the scope of a contract, extending operations and maintenance contracts to a 6 to 10year base term rather than the 3 to 5year base terms that we see today and language that supports bilateral decisioning of option extension periods versus the unilateral language that we see in contracts today.
▶ 1:00:29In conclusion, NATA looks forward to continuing to work with the subcommittee as you develop reauthorization legislation. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I'd be happy to answer any questions that the committee may have. Mr. Fagenbomb, Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Norton, and fellow members. My name is Brooke Fenbomb. I'm the senior managing director for transportation policy at Reason Foundation, a nonprofit think tank with offices in Los Angeles and here in DC.
▶ 1:00:58I'm a graduate of the Georgia Institute of Technology with degrees in public policy and transportation planning with a concentration in engineering. I've been studying transportation since my undergraduate capstone on freeway congestion. Uh I worked here on Capitol Hill for Representative Lyn West Morland of Georgia who some of you may remember fondly or otherwise. With Reason, I have worked with more than 20 states as well as the federal government to implement transportation policy and funding reform.
▶ 1:01:25And I currently serve on three National Academy of Sciences committees, managed lanes, intelligent transportation systems, and most relevant to today, bus transit systems. Transit systems operate across the country from New York City to Cheyenne, Wyoming. They use different vehicles, have different ridership profiles, and serve vastly different communities. There is no one-sizefits-all solution, but I want to highlight some trends that apply to most systems and then suggest some possible solutions. CO 19 dealt a serious blow to the transit industry.
▶ 1:01:555 years later, transit agencies are facing at least five major problems. The most serious problem remains crime. While some may feel perception of crime is worse than the actual problem itself, all it takes is one incident for some riders to never use the system again. Los Angeles Metro provides an example. Between 2020 and 2023, crime on its system increased 55%.
▶ 1:02:18After creating its own police force in a concerted effort to curb fair evasion, overall crime continued to increase, although violent crime did decrease slightly. Uh it still remains at 20 257 incidents per year. Just in the first 6 months of 2024, last year, a rider was shot on a train platform, another was shot on a bus, one was stabbed on a bus, and another was attacked with a wrench. Another rider was stabbed inside an elevator. A bus was hijacked. A bus driver was stabbed in the chest.
▶ 1:02:48A train rider was shot dead. An altercation on a bus spread into the street near the transit station, leading to multiple stabbings. Ridership has been hard hit. While a few transit agencies in areas with fast growing populations have recovered, transit use in most region is down anywhere from about 20% to as much as 60% compared to 2019. And 2019 was far from the high water mark for passengers.
▶ 1:03:12Aptis 22 2022 passenger transportation factbook shows transit ridership has declined approximately 20% across the country between 2014 and 2019. There's several reasons why ridership levels have declined. I mentioned crime. Another is the increase in people's ability to work from home. A third is convenience. During the pandemic, many workers switched to driving and found it faster and more enjoyable. and they have been hesitant to switch back from driving, car pooling or van pooling.
▶ 1:03:42As a result, the fairbox recovery rate, the percentage that Ryers fairs pays of operating costs, has slipped from 20 to 60% to 5 to 40%. That means taxpayers are now subsidizing the majority of the operating costs for every system in the country. Given these high costs with limited ridership, it helps to examine who we are subsidizing. There are two types of transit ridership riders, choice and dependent. Choice riders have access to a vehicle. These riders tend to like living near stations, but tend to use transit less frequently.
▶ 1:04:12They also tend to ride rail far more than bus. Most of the decline in transit ridership has come from choice riders. Dependent riders do not have access to a vehicle and tend to ride transit more frequently. They tend to ride bus more than rail and tend to have lower incomes. While dependent riders traditionally lived in the urban core of metro areas, they also now live in suburban, exurban, and rural areas in the US. Part of the cost escalation is the proliferation of new light rail lines.
▶ 1:04:40A newer technology, bus rapid transit, is 1/3 to 1 nth cheaper, and many metro areas are adopting it. For operating and maintenance costs, agencies often wait too long to complete needed maintenance. I would just point to some of the problems that Wamada here in the region has had, including a fire that led to a tragic loss of life. Obviously, we want to fix that. So, given these challenges, what should we be doing? First, focus on the core customers. Transit dependent riders.
▶ 1:05:07They need transit and they tend to use it much more than choice riders. Rightize the type of transit system being used. Transit dependent customers use bus more than rail. In urban areas, focus on expanding your bus network. Make sure it is set up in a grid design, not a radial design. Operate schedules on a regular basis and focus on areas of extreme density. Look at on demand option in suburban agencies. Second, encourage agencies to focus on transit operations and not capital.
▶ 1:05:35The share of federal funding for capital costs, in my opinion, should be reduced from 80% to 50%. Focus on generating additional new revenue where possible from advertising and deploy more officers to transit systems. Thanks for the opportunity to testify. I'm happy to answer any and all questions either here or for the record. Mr. Rean. Good morning, Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Norton, and members of the subcommittee.
▶ 1:06:01On behalf of the Transportation Trades Department, AFL CIO, and our 37 affiliated unions, I thank you for this opportunity. As America, America's largest transportation labor federation, TTD proudly represents the majority of public transportation workers in this country. Nobody knows the challenges and opportunities in this industry better than the frontline workers who keep it moving every single day. As Congress prepares to craft the next surface reauthorization, it faces a fundamental choice.
▶ 1:06:27Continue treating workers as an afterthought or recognize them as essential partners in building a transit system worthy of America's future. The upcoming service bill much must address the scourge of violent assaults on transit workers. For over a decade, transportation labor unions have sounded the alarm about the epidemic of assaults on transit workers of all kinds. Bus drivers, subway operators, and commuter rail workers have all experienced it. The number of assault-related injuries in US public transit rose by 232% in the last 10 years.
▶ 1:06:57In December, ATU member Sha Yim, a Seattle bus driver, was beaten and then murdered by a passenger who escalated a dispute over an open window. In February, a bus in Madison, Wisconsin, crashed during its route after a passenger's relentless pushing and shoving of the operator. We've made some headway with our allies in Congress, but much work remains to be done.
▶ 1:07:19Specifically, transit operators need physical barriers that fully enclose their workstation to protect them, especially from unwanted entry of violent violent persons, dangerous fluids, or hurled objects. Congress must provide for such infrastructure and apply its oversight authority to encourage the Federal Transit Administration to finally promulgate a rule establishing vehicle safety standards designed to mitigate the threat of assaults.
▶ 1:07:43As far as workforce development, to ensure a strong transit workforce for the future, we must also ensure employees receive adequate training and upskilling. We urge Congress to build on existing transit workforce development measures in any service bill. For example, the low no emission bus grant program in the infrastructure law is a great program that requires 5% of funds be used for workforce development. Now that this program has been put to the test, we see that more resources are needed and we support raising that set aside 10%.
▶ 1:08:14Congress must also codify the transit workforce center, ensure that it's it is funded so that transit systems across the country and their employees have highquality curricula for training their workers. Congress not only has the power to shape the transit workforce of the future, it also has a central role to play in shaping the future of automation and transit. When drafting the upcoming surface bill, Congress must prioritize public safety by including a clear and enforceable federal frame framework for autonomous vehicles.
▶ 1:08:42Any framework must one require certified operators on board. Two, ensure any agency receiving federal funds submits a comprehensive workforce development plan. And this should ensure that workers are not replaced but retrained so that these technologies one if they one day prove themselves safe that the workers have the ability to upscale and be ready to move these systems forward.
▶ 1:09:06This is especially urgent as some AV deployments have moved forward with temporary waiverss or exemptions from core transit safety rules which is an unacceptable trend. FTA already has a statutory safety mandate. It must use it to ensure the public dollars fund public goods, not unsafe unregulated alternative unregulated alternatives. Any surface reauthorization bill must also address the fiscal cliffs that many transit agencies across the country are facing.
▶ 1:09:35After ridership fell to 20% of prepandemic levels during the CO 19 crisis, Congress rightfully stepped in and provided operational support to keep the doors open. This helped essential workers get to their essential jobs and retained operational capacity for when our systems fully recovered after the pandemic. Now, ridership has recovered about 85% of its 2019 levels, and that is worth celebrating. But recovered ridership alone won't be enough to protect this public good.
▶ 1:10:03Congress must amend federal funding programs to restore the flexibility that would allow transit systems to keep their service running, improve li reliability, and address this public safety crisis. This involves opening federal funds up for operations use instead of keeping the current restriction on capital projects.
▶ 1:10:20Giving agencies better access to operational support would empower them to make muchneeded safety investments like installing physical barriers to protect the operator workstation, expanding the presence of law enforcement and other physical improvements improvements like more effective cameras and better fair gates. We are confident that the upcoming service bill is an opportunity to improve safety and service across our transit systems, large or small.
▶ 1:10:46I look forward to working with each of you to address the transit work for work worker assault crisis, operational funding issues, workforce development needs, autonomous technology deployment, and more. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you very much. And I thank all of you for your uh for your testimony. Very, very, very good. Um, Mr. Ford. I got a little ahead of myself and uh did not recognize I believe you have your wife here. Uh if you want to recognize her real quickly.
▶ 1:11:14My wife uh Janet Walker Ford has uh joined me today uh to support me in my testimony. Janet. Well, they say behind every great man is a really really great woman. Yes, Mr. Ford, uh I'm going to start with you on the questions. Uh, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, FTA received a historic level of investment from AIA and supplemental COVID funding, yet ridership numbers remained below prepandemic uh, levels.
▶ 1:11:42The FTA also reports the injury rate per 100 million passengers has jumped 294% and fatalities 300% from 2008 to 2022. So what suggestions does APA have to address crime and improve overall writership numbers on transit systems? Uh with the understanding of course that we don't have an unlimited uh checkbook. Yes. Uh thank you for that question Mr.
▶ 1:12:10Chairman and uh let me start by saying to the entire committee one crime or one incident harming an employee or any of our riders is one too many. and uh my peers around the country both on the private sector side as well as on the public agency side.
▶ 1:12:27We're doing all that we can using technology to identify risks uh in terms of our operations and where potential accidents may occur or incidents may occur as it relates to crime using artificial intelligence and a whole host of other tools to uh dissuade crime on our systems. We wanted we want to try and put this in a bit of perspective in terms of safety overall. Public transportation is one of the safest modes uh in carrying people and moving people in our community.
▶ 1:12:57In fact, uh it's compared to actual cars operating on our roads and our streets, we're 10 times safer. However, in terms of our systems, a crime uh unfortunately is one too many. Having said that, I just want to keep things in perspective. using transit saves lives uh and by getting people off the street and getting them on our public transportation systems. We do believe that federal funding is critical in that.
▶ 1:13:23Uh you may have heard that uh in terms of our state of good repair, the backlog of state of good repair does uh move into the realm of creating unsafe systems and uh operations. And so continuing federal funding at the highest levels that we could have it provided will allow us to be safer systems. Uh we have also looked at data to related to the communities we operate in.
▶ 1:13:50Uh you know as we watch crime throughout our communities, our systems in a many cases are the place of refuge for a lot of the citizens in our communities. They see our stations and our terminals as places of uh safety and security. uh we have deployments of officers as well as security guards and then also hardening of our FE vehicles with uh barriers for the bus operators or the train operator to continue to uh do their jobs in a safe manner.
▶ 1:14:20So uh I think uh I just want to end with what I started with. We take crime very seriously. We're working with local jurisdictions in our communities, police departments, sheriff's offices to ensure the highest levels of safety on our system. Uh, are we 100% there? There's still always more work to do until we get to zero crimes and incidents on our systems. Uh, Miss Klein, uh, can you elaborate on the types of services Prairie Hills Transit offers and how you're able to operate on a balanced budget?
▶ 1:14:50Uh, understanding of course that, uh, rural areas, you have challenges that you may not have in other areas, obviously. Thank you for the question. Um we provide all types of service um up until we get to emergency such as ambulance service but um we're providing all the way from transportation for school age children transportation for individuals disabilities.
▶ 1:15:20The majority of our vehicles are lift equipped or ramp equipped and um the fact that we're able to provide a full service um is very important to all the communities that we serve. Now, let me remind you that the majority of our service area can be seven people or less per square mile.
▶ 1:15:45So the fact that we're able to still serve those individuals living in highly rural areas or sometimes we call them frontier is optimal to allowing those individuals to continue living in their own homes being taxpaying members you know productive citizens in their own communities. Um Mr. Bterball really quickly contracted services uh can improve efficiency and decrease overall costs.
▶ 1:16:13Can you talk about that a little bit in the last uh 20 seconds? Sure. Sure. I'll try to be quick. So, we really view it as an opportunity by strengthening transit by combining public oversight with private innovation and flexibility. So, our focus is really to look at systems uh work with agencies and collaboration to figure out how we can build more effective efficient systems through operator training, innovation and just our scale across the globe. My time has expired.
▶ 1:16:43Miss Norton, Mr. Mr. Regan, uh, bus operator safety is a key issue for your members and needs to be a priority for this committee in the next surface transportation reauthorization bill. What recommendations do you have for making sure frontline workers are protected on the job?
▶ 1:17:11Thank you, ranking member. But um we have a uh you know this has become an increasing problem and what we've recommended uh certainly is to go beyond what was already achieved by Congress and the infrastructure and the bipartisan infrastructure law. Um we would like to see a full requirement of physical barriers so that we can redesign the workspace for bus operators and transit operators to protect them from outside threats. be it somebody trying to force their way in, someone throwing something at the operator.
▶ 1:17:41Um, but redesigning that workspace, and that's what it is for for these transit operators, is their office. And we need to have a direction, a directive, and federal leadership to ensure that we are designing these spaces in a way that they are safe, but also that the passengers they're that they're driving are safe as well. Thank you, uh, Mr. Regan, Mr. Ford. Um, and Mr. Regan writing transit is 10 times safer than driving a car.
▶ 1:18:10However, the Trump administration has threatened to withhold funds for major trans transit systems citing po purported concerns about safety. What would uh each of you what would withholding federal funds mean for transit safety? Thank you. uh for the question.
▶ 1:18:36Uh in terms of federal funding, uh it's as I it's very important that we look at the overall funding picture for public transportation. The work that we do and the funding we receive to maintain our systems in a state of good repair. uh it enures to us having safe systems from an operational standpoint, the reliability of our equipment, the maintenance of our equipment, ensuring that our systems are our our infrastructure is kept in a state of good repair.
▶ 1:19:04I would also say that we rely on our federal partners in terms of that funding because then there is additional funding that could be utilized to create security for our operators and our maintenance personnel, frontline personnel who are actually working in our facilities. So funding is critical in terms of the overall safety of our our systems. I I agree entirely with what Mr. Ford said.
▶ 1:19:28This is uh a critical issue and if we're trying if we are going to make progress on uh improving safety, we need to have those investments in our systems. Whether it be uh having more uniform police available that just the visual of having um people security personnel there in the systems helps a great deal but also improving the infrastructure of the system itself. They can be better gate uh technology which we're seeing here in Washington DC for example.
▶ 1:19:54There could be um designing the facilities on the buses themselves ensuring that we have better camera coverage as well. Those are all things that require funding and and stuff that the the federal government uh needs to take a leadership role in to make sure that we have it across uh the needs of different agencies. Uh Mr. forward.
▶ 1:20:15Your testimony noted that Jacksonville is developing a transit approach to vision zero which focuses on improving bicycles and pedestrian safety around public transit facilities. How is Jacksonville improving safety across Thank you for the question. We believe in a holistic transportation system approach.
▶ 1:20:43And so as we have done work with our current transit system and back in 2015, we did a total restructuring of our route structure that had been in place for 30 years. The what we attempted to when we did that, we identified gaps, sidewalk gaps, bike lane gaps that actually uh hindered the utilization of our transit system.
▶ 1:21:04So, we've adopted a complete streets process that when we do a road project or a transit project, we look at accessibility for all modes, whether you're in a car, riding public transit, biking, or walking. And we go, we have a holistic approach to infrastructure, which uh has improved the safety in our community for all uh users of our Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back, Mr. Webster.
▶ 1:21:35Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for having this committee meeting. It's timely. Mr. Ford, um I've long been concerned about improving the transportation for seniors and for people with disabilities. In my district is the villages where all your dreams come true.
▶ 1:21:56Uh and they hosted a pilot program two years ago in conjunction with the Florida Department of uh that deployed a a um a shared autonomous uh shuttle and it was used in conjunction with a healthc care facility there and worked out great. But uh are autonomous vehicles um you deploy in Jacksonville accessible by seniors and those with disabilities?
▶ 1:22:31Yes, thank you for the question. Yes, they are accessible for senior citizens in our community. And in fact, we used our uh senior and uh disabled uh advisory committee to help us design the vehicles that will be deployed on our project the summer. And so uh we we sought their input very early on with our contractors to develop a fully accessible public transit autonomous vehicle shuttle.
▶ 1:23:00uh in your experience uh how are you ensuring that accessibility is a key feature uh as we continue to develop this technology? Yes. As we develop this technology, we recognize that for senior citizens as well as the disabled community, having those special needs, we drive our design of these systems to support those individuals first, which then clearly will provide accessibility for the rest of our
▶ 1:23:30community. So we designed with the most challenging accessibility uh population in our community which is seniors uh children uh disabled members of our community. Uh that is part of our initial design and they were there at the very forefront of the U2C program. Fantastic.
▶ 1:23:51Uh, Miss Klein, um, if there were a a uh infrastructure bank created for each state funded totally by private money and um leverage maybe uh and leverage 10% of that uh for local projects that are rural in nature.
▶ 1:24:23Um could you see that helping uh the um in addressing some of the infrastructure needs that are benefit to the transit Thank you for that question.
▶ 1:24:36Um, our system never misses an opportunity to apply for funding similar to what you're speaking and I believe that if we had something where we were able to do that that it would definitely be beneficial for the rural areas and small Great. Thank you very much. Uh, yield Mr. Johnson, you're recognized.
▶ 1:25:07Thank you uh Mr. Chairman and and ranking member for holding this hearing uh and thank the witnesses uh for your testimony today. It's time that we start uh thinking about workingclass Americans. They're living in constant fear, seeing headlines every day about the economy going into the tank because of tariffs, about cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and other programs that they depend on.
▶ 1:25:37And my office is flooded with calls and emails from people terrified they'll lose their benefits, their job, and their security. When we talk about our transit system, we're really talking about people. I think about the working families who depend on transit to get to work on time, to get their kids to school, or to make a doctor's appointment without a car. During the pandemic, Congress stepped up.
▶ 1:26:05We made sure that buses ran, trains kept moving, and workers stayed on the job. Then we doubled down with the bipartisan infrastructure law, the largest transit investment in US history. Now is not the time to be stepping back from that progress. We would be neglecting the very workers who kept this country running and who risked their lives during a global crisis to keep the wheels of America turning.
▶ 1:26:34So cutting transit investment will not just slow progress, it will raise unemployment and send a dangerous message that some people simply don't matter. It's time to stop taking from workingclass Americans and start giving them the future that they deserve. Mr.
▶ 1:26:52Reagan, on March 27th, President Trump signed an executive order ending collective bargaining at agencies involved in national security, claiming it would allow these agencies to quote execute their missions without delays or interference from union related obstacles end quote.
▶ 1:27:12There's a concern that this ex executive order will be used to erode collective bargaining rights in other agencies like the federal transit uh federal transit administration given the challenges transit workers are facing. Can you discuss how this executive order could affect their ability to advocate for Yes, and thank you for the question. Um the executive order I you know federal employees already it's already a right to work environment.
▶ 1:27:41they don't have the ability to collectively or to bargain for wages and benefits. I mean, this is about uh protections in the workplace. The union representation they get is to make sure that they're not unfairly punished. Um the way that that executive order is executed, what they're trying to do, essentially it says that you are a national security threat if you exercise your right of freedom of assembly.
▶ 1:28:02That's that's what they're saying that the minute you uh join a union, you are now unable to help uh a a safety sensitive or a security sensitive uh function in your job. And I think that's a very chilling message because that is one of the most American things you can do is is to vote for and join a union. It is a first amendment freedom of assembly right and that type of mindset should be chilling to all other union workers and certainly in areas where safety is critical and where federal funding is also critical.
▶ 1:28:30Uh so we are you know vocally opposed to that executive order. We would are really concerned about it stretching into other areas. Uh but we're going to fight back because we think it's vital that these workers have the protections that they have earned and that are enshrined in our constitution. Thank you. Uh sir, we've seen how public transit agencies have navigated the challenges brought on by the pandemic.
▶ 1:28:53Federal investments such as the 108 billion dollars in the bipartisan infrastructure law and the $ 30 billion in the American Rescue Plan were vital in keeping these agencies operational. However, this funding is starting to run out and many systems are now facing a financial crisis.
▶ 1:29:13As Congress works on the next surface transportation bill, what do transit agencies and workers need from Congress to avoid financial instability and to maintain the recovery momentum? Well, I think we need to uh I think this is a really important opportunity for us as a government to evaluate how our programs are working.
▶ 1:29:37Uh and I think we had a brief pause during the pandemic where we allowed for operational assistance and the use of federal funds for operating assistance. Uh that was obviously has ended. Now I think we need to make sure that as we're looking to reauthorize these programs, we're meeting the needs of the various agencies throughout our country. That includes some areas where they need capital investments. Uh in some agencies they may need cap capital investments, other areas they may need operational assistance.
▶ 1:30:01And that should be um there should be flexibility built in to meet the needs of the communities that are relying on these funds. Uh so how we do that is an important question that this committee and all stakeholders are going to have going forward. All right. Thank you. I'm out of time and I yield back. Mr. Johnson, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Miss Klein, I'll come to you again. Of course, we talked about how large you talked about how large your agency is, the area it covers, although it's not just you.
▶ 1:30:26I was at River Cities Transit not that long ago and they cover an area from Pennington County in the west, Dewey County on the north to Todd County in the south and county in the east. I mean, this is really the geography can be daunting and yet you mentioned the wrership uh for Prairie Hills is up 5%. Tell us why that is. Great question.
▶ 1:30:50Um, I think part of it is that for 35 years, people have relied on Prairie Hills Transit. They know the name. They know the reputation. Um, we have three drivers that have been there for 25 years. So, they they know their friends, their drivers, their neighbors. But, um, increased wrership in particular for children needing to get to schools so parents can stay at work, not have to leave work.
▶ 1:31:18um increased writership for different types of pools, national guards, soccer parents, those kinds of things. Um we're not just doing business the way we've always done it. We're always looking for new ways to meet what the people in the communities are really looking forward to. So I mean obviously increased wrership means increased number of drivers.
▶ 1:31:43I suspect you, like a lot of agencies, even with the long tenure drivers you've got, it probably it's difficult to find good drivers when you do have an opening. Some have suggested that the CDL under the hood exemption would be helpful. Tell us more about that. Um, yeah, that would remove one of the restrictions that um drivers who are CDL eligible or or have their passenger endorsements need to meet.
▶ 1:32:09Um, many of the buses I think in agencies downsized to smaller vehicles, but definitely the CDL requirements got much more cumbersome, much more intensive. And so removing that one piece would definitely be helpful to agencies in particular smaller ones. So often these new regulations, they may be well-intentioned, but they can actually be really detrimental. And so you look at some of these CDL requirements.
▶ 1:32:39I mean, ostensibly that should make us safer. I mean, what's the data with your agency say? I mean, is your safety are the safety numbers worse for the drivers without CDL driving those smaller vehicles? I I'd assume you have safe driver data on either class of vehicle. Yeah. No. Um, and and the example I would use is the three drivers that had that 25 years of experience that has been accidentfree.
▶ 1:33:05But we also have a significant amount of training that goes into our drivers before they ever hit the road. And so they have certification courses that um are trained through CTAA. And uh we do first aid, CPR. The training that drivers have is I think sometimes not identified by the general public. Oh, he hired this guy, threw him in a bus, and now they're driving us.
▶ 1:33:34Um but but it's significant and so our agency has never had a accident of significance and definitely never a fatality in that 35 years. So but I want to make sure I understand the the new CDL requirements that went into effect maybe a couple years ago. Now you haven't seen any evidence in the field that that has increased safety. No.
▶ 1:33:59And in fact, um, for agencies like us, it's become a real burden because, um, to go to a university and get the training, it's extremely expensive to have an in-house person that's already got multiple other duties doing that training. Um, we're even training drivers for the school system. So, um, it's cumbersome and it doesn't need to be.
▶ 1:34:26Are there other examples you can think of of where federal regulations complicate rather than aid your work? Like what do we need to work on? I mean, tell us on a bipartisan basis, what can we go fix so you can do a better job of connecting people to social, economic, and educational opportunities? Okay. Well, my example is I have a staff of 60. You already heard that. Four of us are administrative people.
▶ 1:34:53So every time a regulation comes up that says you need to do this, you need to do that, it's up to that staff of four to figure out how we do that to meet the relationships of all of the additional regulation. But um certainly we can downsize that. Um we would really like to downsize that.
▶ 1:35:16NEPA is one of the requirements that um would definitely help us in in new projects uh building projects. Mr. Chairman, I told you she was good with that. I would yield back. Garcia, thank you uh Mr. Chairman and of course the witnesses uh today.
▶ 1:35:39The bipartisan uh infrastructure law provided a stable, predictable source of funding for numerous types of projects over a 5-year period. As we sit here, however, this administration is seeking to revoke projects that were funded by the infrastructure law. They're looking for projects that mention words like green, bicycle infrastructure, equity, and climate change.
▶ 1:36:07some unobligated projects with these words would be subject to an additional layer of review according to recent DOT memo. What message are we sending to state and local partners about the federal government's ability to keep its funding promises? What precedent does this set? We're talking about safety projects. Protected bike lanes connect people to bus and rail lines.
▶ 1:36:37Streetscape improvements enhance pedestrian safety and incentivize the use of public transit. Billions of dollars are at risk. Mr. Reagan, your testimony mentions that public transit ridership has recovered to about 85% or so of prepandemic levels. We seem to be on the right track, but fiscal cliff challenges remain.
▶ 1:37:04Can you detail what impact this funding freeze would have on the public transit sector both on workforce and service service levels as well? Thank you for the question and I I think it is very risky to be uh subjecting extra layering to these projects both from from the jobs perspective that I'm happy to represent but also from the progress perspective of what the infrastructure law was intended to do over a 5-year period.
▶ 1:37:31Uh and I think it's also important to remember that you know these grants these projects that were being awarded um these were not developed by people at FTA. This is what your community needs. These are from local leaders who decided we should apply for money for this purpose because this is a need in our community.
▶ 1:37:49And I don't care if you're in the a large city like if you're in Manhattan or if you're in, you know, Lincoln, Nebraska or if you're in um you know, Jackson, Mississippi, you know, there is going to be a need for federal funds and the the local leaders are deciding that this is something that will benefit our constituents.
▶ 1:38:05So, um, when you're scrutinizing specific words in an application like that, it's it is going after the decisions made by local leaders that I I think is very um sort of tonedeaf to what they they're they're telling you what they need. They're telling you that this is how this program, this money can help us. And we should be supporting all of those efforts regardless of where the where the project is. Thank you. I hope people are listening.
▶ 1:38:30I also appreciate you're highlighting a topic that some see as an easy fix for financial challenges faced by transit agencies. That is using autonomous vehicles in the public transit sector. We are seeing local pilot programs experiment with this technology. Without a federal framework, states are free to develop their own plans, potentially withhold uh without regard to the safety of pedestrians or bicyclists.
▶ 1:39:01Oh, or worse, allow unregulated testing. Mr. Reagan, do you agree that we need a uniform standard for autonomous vehicles in public transit? 100%. we we cannot be deploying untested technology without a strict federal reg framework for how it can be deployed. Uh and that is includes on the safety front but also on the workforce front.
▶ 1:39:24Um we should make sure that that technology as it's incorporated into our existing public transit systems is additive to the workforce that there are training opportunities there's growth opportunities for the people who have these middle class jobs in in communities across the country. It would be unwise to think you can stop technology. Um, but it is wise to think that we can create a policy framework that makes sure that as it's incorporated, it's done safely in a way that also benefits the communities economically and the people who are working in those systems. Well, thank you.
▶ 1:39:54And I'm working on a bill to do just that uh on uh AV's uh AV testing on our roads. This is my final question and we've got half a minute uh to answer. Uh what should this committee be thinking about regarding this technology as we approach the next surface Safety first. They they you know any any vehicles in the transit systems share the road space with pedestrians, with bicyclists, with private car operators.
▶ 1:40:22Um adding into it a new technology. There's a lot of risks involved with that. And I think that it is incumbent upon regulators and and legislators to make sure that we're doing it with an eye towards safety if it's if it is proven if it's able to move forward that we have safety is not going to be compromised at the least. Thank you and thank you for your indulgence. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Mr. Crawford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:40:47U one of the I guess one of the biggest issues that we wrestle with in this body across committees is urban versus rural divide. One of the things that we struggle with regardless of the topic of conversation but the lane I want to go down today is exactly that and that is as you know um Miss Klein AA provided 108.2 billion dollars for FTA administered programs. Large transit systems account for the majority of national transit ridership and service.
▶ 1:41:16But many of those systems can't even turn a profit and depend on federal funding to operate. For example, uh through COVID relief bills, FTA was provided with almost $70 billion in emergency supplemental funding funding. And somehow that large transit system 53.6% of that funding. Districts like mine are left watching these large transit systems take the bulk of the funding and then my communities are scraping the bottom of the barrel for what's left.
▶ 1:41:42These metropolitan transit authorities are taking advantage of the system and leaving the rural areas to fend for themselves. So, Mrs. Klein, can you explain to me how rural communities can compete against large transit authorities when it comes to federal The honest answer is I don't think we can compete with them.
▶ 1:42:01Um, but we do a really good job of being able to develop um, private partnerships, public um, engage in additional contractual work that helps support what we do. And because we are so rural, I think the majority of the individuals living in those communities have our backs, too. So, they're helping us um, with the dollars that come in.
▶ 1:42:30But we're not able to compete with the huge urbanized properties. We develop close relationships with our closest small urban system and work with them closely. But um funding wise, their funding is a totally different resource. It comes directly to them for a rural system like us. We're a subreient of the dollars that come to the state.
▶ 1:42:55So, you know, one of the things that you you start talking about transit systems and most people sort of default to um rail, commuter rail, things like this, but rural communities that that construct just doesn't exist. So, we rely more heavily on infrastructure that is our roads and bridges that serve transit um authorities like yours. Infrastructure is the most important part of transit operations. Whether it's rail or road, it's vital that they're properly maintained and updated.
▶ 1:43:24But when it comes to funding for transit infrastructure, the bulk of the funding goes toward those large transit authorities that I described what we consider our first thought is is some of the rail um infrastructure. So, it's important to continue to update and improve transit infrastructure for large metro areas. I'm not denying that. This doesn't address the overall issue of the rural problem, though. And um I'm just I'm just wondering if you can provide me with some insight on how improving rural infrastructure can impact the overall health of our nation's transit systems.
▶ 1:43:55Thank you. Um I think that improving funding would be very helpful in South Dakota in particular in many other rural states. Roads, highways, bridges are very important. Um and as an aside sort of, we've done a suspension system on our buses, but that's all we operate. We don't operate rail. We don't operate fairies in South Dakota.
▶ 1:44:20So, um, the ability to work through that is the important part for us. Additional funding is always great. Do we think that's going to happen right now? Probably not. But, um, formalized funding 5310, 5311, 5339 are really important in the continued support through those funds. I appreciate that. Let me let me talk about innovation.
▶ 1:44:46Transit legacy systems such as subways, things that we probably most often think about when we talk about transit systems are often very cost inefficient, unable to turn a profit. So, let me ask you, Mr. Mr. Fagenbomb, would investments in new technology and transit systems such as autonomous vehicles and buses free up more transit dollars to be invested in smaller and more rural communities? Yeah, they absolutely would and I think they're something that should be tested.
▶ 1:45:15Obviously, some of them are not ready for prime time right now, which is why we have the testing programs, but um you know, I I know it's a contentious issue, but labor costs are one of the highest costs of transit. And so, you know, to try to get the overall system more service at a lower cost, that's one of the things that a lot of transit agencies are looking at. Excellent. Thank you all for being here. You've been very helpful. Appreciate it, Mrs. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:45:41Um, first of all, I'd like to recognize two constituents who are here for my district. Uh, Jameson Oden, the director of Lane Transit District, and Susan Sunum Cox, who is the chair of the Lane uh, transit board. And, um, thank you for being here. Very much appreciate the work that you do in both our urban and rural communities.
▶ 1:46:10um our our our people rely on the infrastructure that you are willing to put forward. Um and I I think our transit system for the size that we are is exceptional. So thank you for utilizing our taxpayer dollars Um so transit workers are facing increasing threats on the job. 121% increase in reported assaults on operators from 2008 until 2021.
▶ 1:46:40I talked to many of our our um transit operators who are really have come to fear going to work. It is incredibly stressful. Um nearly 60% of the amalgamated transit union members report that the risk of assault affects their mental health. And there is a real reason to fear. Um, many assaults are also under reportported.
▶ 1:47:05Uh, workers often stay silent because they believe reporting it won't lead to action or they fear retaliation. Um, concerns about crime can drive people away from public transit. Right? That's that's a real fear. A safer transit system brings in more riders, builds public trust, and creates better working conditions for workers who keep it running. Mr. Mr.
▶ 1:47:29Reagan, how can we ensure operator assault data required by the FTA isn't just collected, but actually leads to enforcements, accountability, and required safety improvements. Thank you for the question. We um I think those of us in the in the labor community always viewed uh those worker safety provisions in the in the IGA as a an important first step. Not that was by no means the solution to the problem. And we also have an understanding that when you're trying to correct such a big problem, it is going to take time.
▶ 1:47:59And data that informs you where the risks are is so critical to making sure that it can we can make informed decisions about how to protect workers and passengers. The other important aspect is that data needs to get to the safety committees at each of these agencies. And one of the most important reforms we did there was to make sure that the workers, the unions had an equal seat at the table in terms of creating a safe work environment, create a safe transit system.
▶ 1:48:26Um because there is nobody who is going to understand the risks better than the people who are on the ground on the buses doing the jobs. Uh so those committees as they take in the data and as they incorporate the legitimate views of their workforce um that is going to be the a really important step for how we can actually try to solve this. Uh but we do need to go for farther. We need to make sure that we're redesigning workspaces as I mentioned. uh incorporating barriers where where possible.
▶ 1:48:53Um you know, moving the ball forward in this next bill is going to be a critical point on how are we going to solve this problem for good and not just, you know, give a wave at it and move on, right? Um thank you. Um transit agencies are on the front lines of public health, housing insecurity, community safety, often without the resources to address those challenges. Mr. Mr. Reagan.
▶ 1:49:17Um, do you think this shows the need for more flexible federal operating funds to keep agencies protecting workers, supporting riders, and keeping systems running safely? And do you very briefly have some examples of how you think that could work? Yeah, I um and I think Mr. Ford mentioned this as well in his in his testimony that you know we as a federal programs are meant to support these agencies across the country. They need to be in in many ways the programs need to meet agencies where they are.
▶ 1:49:46Uh that means there are going to be some places that desperately need operating assistance and other places that need capital assistance to invest in new buses and we should be designing these programs so that it's meeting the needs of different types of agencies across the board. Great. Thank you very much and I yield back. Mr. Babin, thank you Mr. Chairman and I want to thank the witnesses here. Appreciate you. Uh Mr. Swagen bomb.
▶ 1:50:13Uh you mentioned in your testimony that uh contracting certain services can cut individual transit authorities operating budgets by as much as 30%. Why haven't more agencies adopted this approach and what barriers are there to prevent more public transit uh folks from using this strategy? Sure. Thanks thanks for the question. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:50:35So the easiest answer is that it's much easier when you're starting up a new service than when you have an established service because when you have an established service uh depending on the the rules you have with labor depending on some of the other conditions it it can be more challenging. There's also just institutional inertia. We've done it this way uh where we're not interested in looking and it's not always the cheapest solution. Um, but I do think that agencies should look to get three bids, minimum three bids from private contractors.
▶ 1:51:05There's many of them that operate across this country. Um, and also look at do it in themselves and seeing what gets the best value. Um, because it's a combination of lower cost and better ridership experience. Okay. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Ford, and thank you for being here. You talked in your testimony about the cost savings associated with introducing autonomous vehicles into your fleet.
▶ 1:51:28What barriers have you encountered as your agency has worked through the ultimate urban circulator project while adopting uh this cutting edge technology? Uh thank you for the question. Uh this has been a challenge and it's probably uh something that uh our community uh has embraced uh as a challenge to provide more transportation uh in our community at a much more costefficient level.
▶ 1:51:54I think it was spoken of earlier in terms of the cost of providing one mile of service, the largest cost is the operator cost. We do believe though in terms of our fixed route services, the larger buses, uh that impact on our bus drivers will come much far in the future. We will upskill them so they'll be able to take advantage of the jobs in the future.
▶ 1:52:16However, as it relates to the autonomous shuttles that we're operating, we see them actually helping us solve the first mile, last mile type issue. While we may have a robust fixed route bus system, the challenge in a 870 uh square mile community is getting people to that bus stop.
▶ 1:52:35And so our urban circulator program is focused on downtown, but we see it expanding throughout our community and being tailorade for those particular communities that don't need a 40-foot bus. Okay. Thank you very much. And one more, Mr. Ford. You also talked in your testimony about integrating emerging technologies like AI into traffic management systems. And what has Jacksonville's experience with AI been in your transit system?
▶ 1:53:01and how would you recommend other agencies adopt it to make their systems safer and more efficient? And then finally, how does Jacksonville implement the data security measures uh to prevent all the data collected and analyzed by the system from being used to surveil American citizens and citizens of your of your fair city there as we have seen the Communist Party of China do uh in their country? Very good question.
▶ 1:53:29So, as it relates to ensuring that um our technology isn't leveraged uh or I guess uh hacked for a better description, uh we've put together some very robust cyber security programs and testing uh in terms of testing that uh those systems for penetration and things of that nature.
▶ 1:53:51In fact, in terms of our autonomous vehicle program, we set up a separate cyber security IT system separate for those vehicles because we would assume they'd be a very uh lucrative t for um mal uh actors, mal uh uh criminals, right?
▶ 1:54:08Uh, as it relates to data management and AI, we're using it for everything from determining our route structures, how we determine what levels of service to provide, origins and destinations of our customers, as well as safety and security on our vehicles. We are able to identify hot spots in our community and that is where we target our security uh forces and our investments in terms of the sheriff's office and our security guards to ensure safety.
▶ 1:54:35So we use data uh and uh analytics to actually make those decisions. And that data and analytics does not include surveillance and No, sir. Anything like that? No sir. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. I'm running out of time, but I appreciate all the questions in the past on criminal activity uh in these transit systems. U prosecution, arrests, and protection of workers and customers absolutely necessary.
▶ 1:55:04So with that, I'll yield back. Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Duffy's crusade against agencies like the MTA paints a picture of unsafe, unaccountable transit. But the facts tell a different story. According to the National Safety Council, public transit is 10 times safer than driving. In New York, subway crime is at its lowest level in nearly 30 years, thanks to federal investments in cameras, operator barriers, safety teams, and training.
▶ 1:55:34So, when Secretary Duffy threatens to withhold funding, he's not improving safety, he's undermining it. Instead of making threats, the federal government should increase funding for public transit and give agencies added flexibility to better use that funding to keep riders and workers safe. Mr. Ford, your testimony highlighted that ridership is rid rising across the country and that even modest shifts from driving to transit can reduce traffic fatalities by as much as 50%.
▶ 1:56:02You also emphasized that agencies are taking a layered approach to safety, investing in everything from transit ambassadors to cutting edge technologies to keep riders secure. Given that progress, what do you want the traveling public to understand about the safety of taking transit Uh thank you for that question.
▶ 1:56:23Uh transit is one of the safest modes uh for uh our citizens in this uh country in terms of transportation and potential safety and criminal activity. So we're very proud of our record in terms of uh the progress that has been made. The challenge is that uh as we go forward, how do we continue to have the funding that allows us to maintain and keep our systems safe as we go forward?
▶ 1:56:48and uh that is critical in just making sure that adequate funding is in place for us to maintain the safety of our systems. So, when Secretary Duffy uh threatens to withhold funding uh either because of the alleged high crime rates or because he doesn't like uh uh the state's stand on congestion pricing, that would uh not help crime or safety in the system.
▶ 1:57:16As it relates to New York and safety of that system, it's a very unique situation. They're carrying millions of people on a daily basis. I can better speak to specifically in Jacksonville where our particular our citizens and our riders we survey them every year. We carried over 7 and a half million passengers every uh last year. Uh their ratings in terms of safety on the system. They feel that we're some cases much safer than the communities that we actually operate in.
▶ 1:57:45And so they see us as a respit in terms of safety as it relates to the wide swath of areas and communities that we traverse through. And as I said uh in my opening uh statement in New York, subway crime is at its lowest level in 30 years.
▶ 1:58:01Um so when when the secretary uh threatens to withhold funding uh because of allegedly high crime rates which are not in fact high or because of an unrelated subject where they don't like the the administration doesn't like uh a city program a state an MTA program called on congestion pricing that would not help crime. It would uh obviously go in the other direction. Mr.
▶ 1:58:28Regan, your testimony warns that recent efforts to roll back federally funded workforce development programs and dismantle union negotiated training plans are not just misguided, they're dangerous. You point out that these programs are essential to building a skilled, stable, and safe transit workforce and that politicizing them puts both workers and passengers at risk.
▶ 1:58:50If these programs are weakened or eliminated under new ideological directives, what recourse do frontline transit workers have and what role should Congress play in defending their rights and protections? Thank you for the question and I I think um you know every transit operator in the country would would acknowledge that hiring and retaining workers is is uh is a real concern for them right now.
▶ 1:59:12uh and these workforce development programs are a vital part of making sure that we have uh that sustained uh pipeline of workers that are going to be bus operators or transit operators or um mechanics and maintenance workers. So as we make investments, I think one of the most important things that was done in the last in the was the requirement for workforce development is 5% of the low and no emission bus grants for example. Um what that does is it acknowledges that we're not just investing in stuff.
▶ 1:59:42We're investing in people. Uh we're investing in our communities and the people that the workers that are going to be responsible for transporting uh our constituents safely from point A to point B. Uh so as we invest in people as well as in new stuff, I think we get better outcomes all around. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Stalberg. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to talk to you briefly about a success story in northern Minnesota called Arrowhead uh transit.
▶ 2:00:12Uh it was established in 1974 and it serves it's a primary provider of public transportation in the Arrowhead region of Minnesota. They are the largest rural public transportation system in the state and they they quote themselves. Our services cater to the diverse needs of our travelers, commuters, and community members. From scheduled services to our volunteer driver program.
▶ 2:00:39We ensure convenient and accessible public transportation option for all. Our drivers undergo comprehensive training covering defensive driving techniques etc. At the core of our services is Dialer Ride, a flexible and personalized public transportation solution for those seeking adaptability in their commute.
▶ 2:01:01Unlike traditional routes, Dialer Ride offers inner city public transportation with the flexibility you need, providing a quick and efficient journey tailored to your requirements. End quote. Miss Klene, I have sponsored the Volunteer Driver Tax Appreciation Act in the past two sessions of Congress.
▶ 2:01:26This legislation increases the federal tax deduction mileage rate for volunteer drivers from its current rate, 14 cents per mile, to be equal to the Internal Revenue Services business rate currently set at 70 cents per mile. CTAA is a national sponsor of the bill. How could this help your agency and other rural transit agencies?
▶ 2:01:54Well, Prairie Hills Transit does not use volunteer drivers. However, we're very supportive of this. Um, we do more of a neighborhing neighbor type situation with our drivers and communities, but I think in the long run, um, it would be very beneficial for agencies using volunteer drivers to know that that's an option. It's certainly much more of an incentive to bring in that volunteer pool. Yeah.
▶ 2:02:24You know, I uh spoke to some seniors in in the district that I represent that use volunteer drivers and the the the drivers and uh the citizen or neighbor uh they build a relationship with that volunteer driver. They trust that volunteer driver. I've actually had them tell me they get nervous if another driver uh you know takes them to their appointment or the grocery store.
▶ 2:02:49I've also uh found uh it interesting that some of these volunteer drivers, they're not doing it for the money. They're doing it for the love of their community. And at least we can pay them the rate that the IRS uh is putting out. I mean, it's ridiculous. They're they can't even at some in in in some instances in the past, they could not even pay for their gas uh to equate uh the cost of the trip. I mean, that's just unconsionable.
▶ 2:03:17and the volunteer driver program uh arrowhead trans uh transit uh uh you know uh regulates and puts it forward and and helps establish guidelines that's a lifeline for our rural communities especially northern Minnesota um systems serving large rural regions uh uh like your service area or like Arrowhead Transit in my district have unique challenges.
▶ 2:03:46Miss Klein, where can the regulatory burden be reduced to help you better serve the communities? Well, one of the things that we see is that um and again, let me reiterate, we have four administrative staff to the total 60 employees that we have. Um we have both state and federal regulations that we have to adhere to.
▶ 2:04:14um simplifying the vehicle procurement for us, reducing unnecessary data collection. Um I mentioned previously the NEPA guidance um for um it needs to be consistent with federal highway rules to allow for property acquisition. Those are all things that um really compile and cause us to stay up at night.
▶ 2:04:43There's just so many things that a small staff needs to adhere to to make sure that you're doing them correctly. And I appreciate uh what you do and one of the rules and regulations uh was was volunteer drivers were going to be and it didn't happen. We're going to be required to have commercial insurance. You talk about ending a volunteer driver service for rural America.
▶ 2:05:08you put that on the drivers and and you and your staff and your agencies push back on that and uh we must continue to push back on. Thank you for ser for your service, Mr. Chair. And I yield back. Miss Davids, thank you, chairman. Uh thank you also just to the chair and to our ranking member for holding this hearing today. And then thank you to our witnesses for taking the time to be here and sharing your expertise with us.
▶ 2:05:37I I'm going to talk a little bit about uh where I'm at, which is the Kansas third. I'm in the Kansas City metro area. And next summer, Kansas City is going to be serving as one of the World Cup host cities or I'm very excited about it. We're all very excited about it.
▶ 2:05:55With six games coming to uh the Kansas City region, hundreds of thousands of visitors are going to be coming not just from the US but uh to experience the worldass soccer culture that we have, our hospitality, and obviously our our barbecue.
▶ 2:06:13Um, but I will say that this this visitor load uh is it's undoubtedly going to put a burden on the various transit systems that we have uh in the Kansas City region. And by holding a series of community conversations uh at the local level, I've been I've been doing what I can to try to make sure that all our stakeholders uh are communicating, but also what the level of preparedness is.
▶ 2:06:41uh asking necessary questions from the federal perspective about what we can do to make sure that this is successful. And we know that there are extraordinary, we're hearing about it today, extraordinary resource needs for transit, for security, uh workforce, and and other areas of of support. And that's especially true for this worldwide event that's going to be happening. So my first question is for the full panel.
▶ 2:07:09Um, in your opinion, would separate a separate funding source or separate funding mechanisms for cities that are hosting large special events, whether it's the World Cup, things like the Olympics, um those added costs to our transit systems. Uh do you think that there should be um or it would be beneficial to have some separate mechanism for funding with transit security, public health?
▶ 2:07:37Uh we can start here uh with Mr. Ford and go down. Uh thank you for that question and it's extremely relevant. Uh in fact just this past weekend at the American Public Transportation Association mobility conference. Uh we have a special group of CEOs uh who are uh in you know hosting uh the Olympics, the World Cup, both Los Angeles, Salt Lake and then the myriad of World Cup cities. And that was a topic of discussion.
▶ 2:08:05How do we uh seek and secure additional funding to support our operations during these mega events that are beneficial to our country? Uh definitely beneficial from a local standpoint in terms of additional revenue and uh funds and expenditures in that community, but it comes at a cost and in many cases the cost is far greater than the annual budget or the budgets of our transit systems. Uh but it's worth the worth the investment at the federal level.
▶ 2:08:35We truly believe Go ahead. Yeah. No, thanks for the question. Um, RATP Dev is actually um a Parisian company. So, we have run the Olympics in uh in Paris over the summer and I think if you look to the organization that that happened there, that is very much characteristic of how it happened. So there's different budgets set up for security um for movement of um the athletes, people who coaches.
▶ 2:09:04Um so there's different buckets set up that I think uh make it more of a viable option to to fund uh these special events that uh otherwise just uh would get convoluted and it's difficult to to find the appropriate funding. Okay. And um I appreciate that note. we can look look internationally for models of of funding mechanisms.
▶ 2:09:27So my second question that we'll see uh my second question is is kind of longer term operations of those same systems that are going to be uh very much used during these mega events uh in communities like the Kansas City area. And federal law does allow um sorry, federal law allows transit authorities in cities with less than 200,000 residents uh to to use federal formula funds for transit operations.
▶ 2:09:55Um and transit systems and regions with uh more than 200,000 are not permitted to do that. Uh as we talk about transit agencies continuing to make these tough decisions about how to manage budgets, having more flexibility to use their 5307 dollars uh may help bridge the gap to keep bus routes or operations sustained. Uh I know this has certainly been the case for the uh Kansas City area transit authority, transportation authority.
▶ 2:10:24Um they've been struggling to keep their bus routes running uh while dealing with various budget challenges. Uh Mr. forward. I will um ask you to respond to that um in maybe in writing after my time has expired, but would love to hear a bit from you about flexibility of using 5307 funds for transit operations. Yes, very quickly within our association, there's a great deal of debate at this juncture.
▶ 2:10:49So, we have not come up with a final determination as an association in terms of that flexibility. And so, uh, please, uh, continued conversation then. It's Yes, we need to continue that conversation. We look forward to working with you. Thank you. Apologies for going over, Mr. Chair. I yield, Mr. Callie. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Mr. Ford, I want to ask you about the Jacksonville uh, autonomous vehicle program because I think as policy makers, we need to be thinking a lot more about the future of transportation.
▶ 2:11:16And I think that there is uh, too often a failure to fully appreciate the extent to which the future truly has uh, arrived in many ways. And uh to see a very clear example of this you can go to a city in my state uh San Francisco where there is this uh stark juxtiposition uh starting with the public transportation uh that exists. You have uh BART which is one of probably the worst public agencies in the US. The system is a total disaster.
▶ 2:11:43There's a 400 million uh dollar uh deficit right now. Uh it's very unsafe. People don't feel safe getting on. Uh it's a system from the 1970s. uh it's unreliable. Uh the trains don't uh often run on time. Uh just generally an unpleasant uh passenger experience.
▶ 2:12:01Uh but then you go above ground and you see these sort of curious uh looking vehicles at first uh that are operated by Whimo that have become an increasingly uh you know salient feature of the landscape in San Francisco. Uh in fact I believe that they're now second in the ride share market. Uh they've surpassed uh Lyft and I think still behind Uber.
▶ 2:12:21Uh but in any case uh this is actually I feel like not that well understood throughout the country for people who don't live in the few places uh where Whimo currently operates and they're actually coming to Washington DC next year so people around here are going to become a lot more familiar with it. Um but you know you think about what is the future of transportation and we can consider this to be public transportation even though uh that's not the use of of of Whimo right now. Uh it's clearly going to be what you're going to be doing uh in Jacksonville.
▶ 2:12:50Is it is the future of transportation going to look like these uh you know uh systems from the past that don't really work very well and are only uh really available in a handful of cities uh or is it going to be this sort of seamless point-to-point transit that is extremely reliable uh that's extremely safe uh and that gets you exactly where you want to go? Uh now of course there are all kinds of challenges involved in making that something that's broadly uh available and affordable and and and useful across the country, but I'm interested in the model you're pioneering in Jacksonville.
▶ 2:13:22Thank you for the question. I as the as the representative here uh and the witness uh testifying for the American Public Transportation Association, we do believe that the conventional transit systems that we currently operate, rail, bus, rapid transit, fixed route bus, it definitely has its place because it it helps with dealing with congestion in our communities, reducing the number of single occupant cars and and you know, in this Whimo example, you have one to two
▶ 2:13:52individuals in a conventional uh type vehicle automobile. Uh so we are focusing on a shared ride use of autonomous vehicles. Uh and that is something that will be part of a holistic system of public transportation that will have our automated people mover. It will have our bus system. It will have these autonomous vehicles. We feel that the first mile last mile challenge is one of the biggest challenges of getting people out of automobiles and onto public transportation.
▶ 2:14:21And in our community where not as dense as the Bay Area, but in our community that first mile and last mile is the immediate barrier to people using public transportation, which would be in the long run much more affordable for them and accessible in terms of uh their lifestyle. That's a great point that these systems can complement each other.
▶ 2:14:41Uh and I I certainly think that in areas where we have uh functional uh transit and subway systems, uh they'll continue to be uh important, there are many many communities across the country that don't have those opportunities available though. So I think this is a very exciting uh possibility to expand that and to sort of think in a more imaginative and broader way about what public transportation and transit uh really looks like. Uh and quickly uh Ms. uh Klein, I have about a minute remaining here.
▶ 2:15:06I wanted to ask you about your uh transit program uh for veterans because this is one of the major obstacles that we see uh for veterans being able to get the care that they need is just being able to get to their appointment at the VA or especially if they have some sort of specialty uh specialist they need to see or procedure that isn't available within uh you know many miles. Uh how do they even get to their appointment? Could you tell me a little bit about how that works and maybe how we could expand these sort of opportunities for our Certainly.
▶ 2:15:33Um, the highly rural transportation grant is a program that is established simply for those veterans living in counties that have seven or less people per square mile. Now, that doesn't mean that if you don't live within that highly rural county that we won't provide transportation. Um, but that that program itself pays for the veterans trips. So, there's no charge to them.
▶ 2:16:00um some of the longest trips for those veterans can be between two and 300 miles because that's the closest veteran facility for them. And so it's a um grant program that you have to apply for individually. It's outside the other formulized or um discretionary grant Well, thank you for what you're doing and I think it's a great model that we could should seek to spread and make more widely available for veterans across the country. I yield back. Mr.
▶ 2:16:32thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the witnesses for testifying at this important uh hearing. Um, Represent Kylie asked a very good question about uh autonomous vehicles. My district in the east valley area, Chandler Mesa, Tempe, Aatuki is the epicenter for Whimo and autonomous vehicles and it is a very important part of the menu of options for transportation in my region.
▶ 2:16:59Great cities have as many diverse transportation options as possible. Whether it's good streets and highways, we need thorough funding for those as well. But also more support for buses, bus rapid transit, light rail. We've had a huge success in my community in light rail.
▶ 2:17:20The street car system, autonomous vehicles, as Representative Kylie was talking about, microtransit, which is a great solution for last the last mile issue in cities across this country. We also need more support for bikeability and walkability of communities as well. The full spectrum of transportation needs to be supported at the local and at the federal level.
▶ 2:17:43I'm the former mayor of Phoenix and I know all too well how important it is for the federal government to be a strong partner to state and local government so that we can offer as many transportation options to the people of our community as possible. And we need to view that not just in terms of writership, although writership is important in my community, the economic development that's gone along where we have invested in light rail. And when I say we have invested, I mean the people of Phoenix who have we've put it on the ballot.
▶ 2:18:13We had the largest public transportation um election investment uh and election supporting that um post recession across America. A 35 year 32 billion plan which was overwhelmingly supported by the people of Phoenix in the red parts of the city and the blue parts uh of the city.
▶ 2:18:35People want smart infrastructure, transportation infrastructure in uh investments and I'm very proud of the work we did to invest in public transportation in the city of Phoenix. Phoenix light rail is a case study for how smart transportation investment is a catalyst for economic development. Employers have flocked to the areas along the light rail line. It has changed the built environment of our city terms of the density of housing and development.
▶ 2:19:05and so many people moving from North Scotsdale, other parts of the city and downsizing because they want to be near the action and energy along the light rail uh line. Um 17.5 billion dollars of public and private invested along the 25 miles existing miles of light rail. I say existing because we are growing in our light rail uh system.
▶ 2:19:28We've continued to build on that success here in Congress to increase federal investments in transportation, particularly through targeted federal investments like the capital investment grants that help local communities fund construction or expansion of larger transit projects. And I've been a broken record for the need to advocate for federal funding for the project as well as increase resources for the CIG program.
▶ 2:19:51It's helped to finish construction on the northwest extension of light rail to Metro Center, which is an incredibly important expansion of the system in Phoenix, an $850 million development that incorporates and centers public transit from day one.
▶ 2:20:06And because of CIG, we're having an amazing moment in my community in just a few weeks here in which we are going to open the South Central Light Rail Expansion, opening five new miles of track in one of the most economically disadvantaged parts of the city in South Phoenix, the most diverse parts of our city as well, bringing new economic opportunities and job opportunities to its residents. recognized as a ladder of opportunity program.
▶ 2:20:29If you remember that old program in the the Obama administration using public transportation to help people uh improve their uh uh financial options in terms of uh uh growth in their job opportunities and educational opportunities because of that investment. Mr. Ford, uh as we prepare the next surface transportation reauthorization, we know the importance of the CIG program to our local communities.
▶ 2:20:53Uh, I've described how that has positively impacted my community that I led as mayor and now represent as Congress. Can you give other examples in your capacity representing APA of how bolstering local investment in public transit betters local economies across the country? Thank you for the question and uh Congressman, I think it's critical the success that the CIG has had across the nation with a number of projects uh throughout our community.
▶ 2:21:21Uh in in Jacksonville, for example, we were able to build the First Coast Flyer bus rapid transit network, which is 48 58 miles of BRT, largest BRT in southeast United States. And with that came along transit oriented development and literally the permits and building and residential that has been built along that corridor has been astronomical.
▶ 2:21:43Uh one thing I would want to point out as we look at continuing on federal funding that we look at how can we streamline the CIG process so that we can speed up the process of getting these projects built in in the ground. And so that is one of the platforms that APA is uh pushing forward which is uh zero zero based examination of the CIG program and how can we move faster an important part of the abundance agenda and that's uh very important.
▶ 2:22:10One final quick point that is um my friend Sherice Davis mentioned big public events. We hosted a very successful Super Bowl. We would not have been awarded the Super Bowl unless we had made those public transportation investments. With that chairman I yield back. Thank you. All right, the chair now recognizes myself. Thank you to our witnesses for your testimony here today.
▶ 2:22:32I think it's clear that while public transit is vital for those that have no other means of travel, we can't continue to throw money at transit services mindlessly and hope that they will magically become successful and self- sustaining. Even before COVID, ridership and revenue levels were decreasing. I think it's time we reexamine our approach to ensure that investments in transit are done in a manner that serves everyone, not just the legacy systems in major metropolitan areas.
▶ 2:22:59These issues were exacerbated under the Biden administration, which incorporated non-stutory equity and environmental justice criteria into FTAissued notice of uh funding opportunities to advance their flawed political agendas.
▶ 2:23:13Considering this, Miss Klein, I was hoping you could elaborate on how administrative burdens like these prevent smaller transit systems from being able to access federal funding opportunities and how Congress can make these funds more Well, again, um I'm going to go back to reducing the regulatory burden because that's one of the biggest challenges that we face as a small system as do many others.
▶ 2:23:40Um people have responsibilities in many other areas, um one of the things that we do are um many of our trips are 500 miles. They're not just across the street or to the grocery store. So um having the ability to work within that time frame as well and the the budgetary conra constraints there.
▶ 2:24:07Um, so funding us, we operate on a shoestring, and I don't mean that lightly, but um, we don't compare it to the large cities. What we do isn't the same, but what we do is every bit as important to the individuals living in that 12,500 square mile area. It's important. All right. Thank you.
▶ 2:24:30Um, on the topic of fair evasion, a DC Metro report in 22 found that one out of three bus riders weren't paying fairs. And it's not just happening in Washington DC. This is a common issue impacting major transit systems across the country. This combined with the increase of violence on transit systems discourages riders and puts the sustainability of these systems in jeopardy. Mr. Mr.
▶ 2:24:53Ford, given your background in the transportation industry both here and abroad, what policies or technologies are best suited to address crime and fair evasion on public transit systems? As it relates to crime, uh, you know, we continue to feel that we're one of the safest modes in the country in terms of transportation overall.
▶ 2:25:12Uh so if you're riding on public transit, you're avoiding uh an accident uh that may happen on one of our roadways in your automobile or in some other type of vehicle which uh has about a 10 time greater rate in terms of safety and fatalities, things of that nature. As it relates to fair collection, uh our systems are doing a great job I believe in ensuring fairs are being paid. The challenge is in some of these activities related to particularly our bus operators.
▶ 2:25:41We are asking our bus operators to deescalate situations around fair evasion because unfortunately in the worst case scenario someone gets very seriously injured or killed over a $150 to $2 fair. So we have to find and strike that right balance between what's happening in our communities that we serve uh and what happens on our actual transit system and and vehicles.
▶ 2:26:04And so, uh, it's finding the right balance of training our operators, creating those physical barriers to prevent them from being assaulted, our station personnel from being assaulted over our fair, and getting the right support from our uh, law enforcement, law enforcement officials to enforce fair uh, policies. All right. Thank you. And with that, I yield back. The chair recognizes Miss Uh, thank you, chair. Thank you to all our witnesses. Um, I'll start today with you, Mr.
▶ 2:26:34Ford, as you know, the American Public Transportation Association found, and you just mentioned this, that it can be 10 times safer per mile to use public transit than to travel by car. My district is on the southshore of Long Island, and it has faced an alarming increase in fatal traffic collisions.
▶ 2:26:52Uh, according to a major investigation that was just conducted by our local newspaper News Day, more than 2100 people have been killed and 16,000 have been severely injured over the past 10 years during uh traffic accidents on Long Island's highways. Every seven minutes on average, a serious traffic accident happens on on Long Island. So, this is a five alarm fire and we must do more to address it.
▶ 2:27:17How can uh continued and increased investment in public transit systems help reduce traffic on our roads, increase safety for our constituents? Thank you very much for the question. Continued investment in public transportation allows us to build and maintain safe systems, reliable systems.
▶ 2:27:37One of the uh opportunities is with continued federal funding, improving the quality of service that we provide so that we could provide frequent service and reliable service and the systems that I think our constituents are looking for in terms of real-time passenger information and data so that they can plan their trip and their travels and leverage our systems. uh not to the degree of having your own personal automobile, but very close to that.
▶ 2:28:05And that attracts choice riders in addition to our dedicated ridership. And so, uh we we value federal funding and the support we've had over the years, but we needed to continue to go uh to take us to that next level and reduce the amount of congestion and traffic that you may be experiencing in your community. Thank you. Thank you.
▶ 2:28:26Um, and as you also shared in your testimony this morning, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provides $ 108.2 billion in funding for our public transit systems. And this is a direct investment back into our communities. Every$1 billion invested in public transit sustains 5 billion in long-term economic impact and 50,000 jobs. What would a freeze on this funding do to our transit systems and our communities?
▶ 2:28:52And what should Congress do to build on these investments in the next surface transportation reauthorization bill? Freezing or slowing down that funding would have a detrimental impact to our communities. Uh the transit systems are the lifeb lifeblood. It's the backbone of connectivity in our communities and uh quite often whether you ride transit or not you are supported by someone who is riding on public transportation.
▶ 2:29:19We also have shared a statistic related to that capital funding, that federal funding that 77% of that funding actually goes to the private sector and it goes to the private sector in communities that may not even have a public transit system, but they have a factory or a plant that is building brake shoes or brake pads for that example or seats for our buses and our trains.
▶ 2:29:42And so, uh, in many cases that, uh, and I think it was in the written testimony, we have a graphic showing a rail car and a bus and the actual pipeline supply chain that is built in the United States in states that may not have robust transit systems, but they have parts that are operating in a Miami, a New York, a New Jersey, or in a Jacksonville. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ford. Uh, Mr. Rean.
▶ 2:30:07One of the most important responsibilities we have in Congress is upholding labor standards and protecting American workers rights. Federal labor protections for our transit workers are vitally important in ensuring that federal infrastructure investments do not undermine local standards. Can you discuss how impactful these protections have been for hardworking TWWU members and for our country's public transit systems? Yes, and thank you for the question.
▶ 2:30:33We um without these labor protections, labor protections are vital for making sure that public transit is a uh a bastion of middle class jobs in this country that you are some you don't need a college degree. You can go be a bus driver and make a middle class living and raise a family. Um and you don't get that. You get to race to the bottom without the labor protections that we have in our transit system. And and with without 13C and other important protections, um I don't think we'd have those same quality of jobs.
▶ 2:31:01And I'm certainly uh we would have much worse retention issues in terms of maintaining a workforce that is able to safely move people around the country. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. Um I see I'm just about out of time, so I will yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentleoman yields back. Mr. Herd. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank Chairman Rouseer and Ranking Member Norton for holding this important hearing.
▶ 2:31:27I represent Colorado's third congressional district, which is one of the larger districts in the country. It covers basically most of western and southern Colorado. It's actually it geographic footprint is actually larger than the state of Pennsylvania. Um, which if Mr. Breznahan were here, I'd give him a hard time about that. U, so rural transit is essential uh for my district. And some of our transit systems have quite a bit of tourist traffic as well in our rural communities.
▶ 2:31:54The Roaring Fork Transportation Authority, which is in the Aspen, Glenwood Springs region of my district, is the largest rural transit system in the United States. It has 4.8 million passenger trips each year uh on average, at least back in 2023. Those were the latest numbers. Um, so Miss Klein, um, my question for you is in your testimony, you mentioned leading an agency that is part of quote the other transit network, um, serving rural communities.
▶ 2:32:24Can you talk specifically about some of the challenges that you face in your agency faces compared to your urban counterparts and how Congress might be able to help address these in the surface reauthorization bill? Thank you for the question. Um I think that many of the smaller agencies, mine included, um were subreients of state.
▶ 2:32:50So the state receives the money that comes from you and um as a subreient, we don't always get the the dollars that we need, which in turn, um provides service constraints. people don't get the days and hours of service that they really need to get to the things that they need. So, if you have a job where you work six days a week, we may only be able to run five days a week. That's one of the big things.
▶ 2:33:20Um, and is that subawward given is that uh how is that determined? Is that at the state level then? That is determined in South Dakota at a state level. Many states are the recipient of the funds and then the agencies apply for the dollars 5311 and you know 5310 5339. Um we run out of money by the 9th or 10th money. We run out of federal money.
▶ 2:33:48So we're operating on reserves that we've been able to acquire whether it's through Medicaid dollars, contractual agreements, um fairs. We do charge fairs, but many agencies are, and I'm not going to use the word silo again because that's a bad word, but um we do lots of different things to make that money stretch.
▶ 2:34:12The issue is even though we got more money in bill um through that we were able to get to a level to actually pay for the new vehicles coming in increase staffing wages and benefits which are still not where they should be. So financially rural systems are really um at a disadvantage I believe. Um are you able to plan?
▶ 2:34:39Is there a flu fluctuation in funding year-over-year or are you able to plan? Is it consistent in what you see when it comes to that funding as dispersed by the state? Well, the funding coming into the state is consistent. However, our funding is based on individual application each year. So, we have what's called a report card.
▶ 2:35:02and depending on how you score on a report card has way more things than we're going to go into right now based on an individual agency. But um and there are there ways that you can think of that Congress could with respect to service reauthorization and and sending the money to the state, say of South Dakota, could condition or or adjust that those dollars to make sure that we're prioritizing the right projects for rural states like South Dakota.
▶ 2:35:33Yeah. Well, one of the things that I said in my testimony was that making sure that when we apply for grants, we're applying against other rural agencies that we're not applying against agencies that are supported by AP to the larger agencies because we don't have the administrative staff. Again, my staff of four writes all the grants that we put out and actually only two of us do that.
▶ 2:36:01So you punch above your weight like most most uh in rural America do have to do that. Exactly. So thank you very much for what you do in the rural part of our country and I know the folks in Colorado uh that's an important issue for them as well. So with that, Mr. Chair, I yield back my time. The gentleman yields. Mr. Molton. Thank you very much. Uh Mr. Chairman, uh Mr. Fenbomb, did I pronounce that correctly, sir? Okay. Yes, you you did.
▶ 2:36:31Thank you, Mr. Ab. You argue that congestion pricing in New York City hasn't been effective uh claiming that the plan is primarily designed to generate money instead of effectively managing traffic congestion. However, you say that London and Stockholm have in contrast uh implemented successful congestion pricing programs. So, could you explain how New York should modify its congestion pricing program to be successful? Sure.
▶ 2:36:58So in my view, the problems with the New York City congestion pricing are are twofold. The first is that instead of setting the tolls actually to relieve congestion and manage the roadways, they were setting an arbitrary limit to raise money for MTA. And I I understand that MTA has needs, but if you're going to have a successful program, um that needs to that's not really the way to do it.
▶ 2:37:24Um, the other challenge that I see is that almost all of the money is going toward transit. And I think if you're tolling motorists, some of the money needs to go to roadways. And now in Manhattan, that's likely to be operational improvements or turn lanes. Obviously, adding new lanes is not a great idea. And still, most of the money makes sense to go to transit because Manhattan is unique and having such a high transit share in the country.
▶ 2:37:48Um, but I I think those two solutions, um, one of which I think, uh, Secretary Duffy stated, uh, would be how I would modify it. Since the 1950s, uh, the American taxpayer has given enormous subsidies to people who drive, and many cities don't have any transit alternatives whatsoever. Certainly, there's been a lot more driving road infrastructure built in and around New York City in the last 70 years than transit infrastructure.
▶ 2:38:15the transit system is basically the same as it was uh you know 100 years ago. Do you think that that was correct in the past where taxpayers who used the subway subsidized building highways? Well, I would say that I'm generally against subsidies in all cases. Um but transit needs some subsidies. I realize and they should be focused on the transit dependent. I wouldn't necessarily view the gas tax as a subsidy because that's something that's actually being paid by the motorists.
▶ 2:38:44And I wouldn't necessarily view tolls, which New York City has as a subsidy either. So I think it might come down to how subsidy is defined, right? But I I would agree with you on the gas tax. Um and I think tolls are a great example as well. But of course, every single year we transfer billions of dollars from the general taxpayer fund to the highway trust fund because gas taxes do and tolls do not cover the cost.
▶ 2:39:09Uh I actually asked uh Harvard Kennedy School to look at just the total cost of the vehicle economy just in Massachusetts and they did a 2019 U study that said that the total cost is about $64.1 billion in Massachusetts which equates to about $14,000 for every family in Massachusetts whether or not they own a car.
▶ 2:39:32So every family is paying $14,000 just to subsidize driving and yet they don't get any they get you know it's still more expensive to take a train into the center of Boston than it is to drive. Does that make sense? Does that help congestion? Yeah. Well, I guess my my recommendation is that we do need to look at new user pay revenue sources. And you're right that the general fund transfers are a problem and they're unfair and I don't think they should continue.
▶ 2:40:01And there's been, you know, different um increased use of tolling, some type of mileage based fee that have been looked at, floated. Um I don't think we're there, but we need to start getting, you know, aggressive in terms of finding a solution because obviously with the next reauthorization on the horizon, um the revenue problems are a problem. The revenue problems are going to get worse with electric vehicles, which actually cause more damage to our highways because they're so heavy. How do you think that should be addressed? I think electric vehicles should be paying a fee.
▶ 2:40:31In many states, they pay anywhere from $200 to $300, some some less in some places. And perhaps also looking at hybrids. Um, you know, mileage fees over the long term would make that a little simpler um because you wouldn't have separate revenue streams. But for right now and as a priority for the next surface transportation bill, I absolutely think electric vehicles should be paying a fee to use roads.
▶ 2:40:53There are a lot of countries that look at transportation problems and do a business case analysis and try to determine is it more efficient to solve this problem with roads or building rail or building some other uh type of system. In America, we pretty much just subsidize airports and and in and in and roads. Is there some vast rail conspiracy that infects all of Asia and Europe or there are actually cases where it just makes more economic sense to build rail as an alternative? Yeah, I think it has to do with where it makes more economic sense. I mean, we have an example in New York City.
▶ 2:41:24Even though our costs are out of control, part of my testimony I didn't mention was that the cost to build a uh kilometer of rail in New York is something like 10 times what it would be in other developed places. Um, but it's also density. It's urban, it's employment, it's residential location.
▶ 2:41:40It's a number of factors that in most US cities cause rail not to make the most I I would just I would just point out that if you look around the globe where they're actually making these these economic based decisions, there are a lot of cities comparable in size to many other cities around the United States where rail makes sense. You could build brand new highways in Austin and inspire the kind of sprawly development that you have there. Or you could build a rail system just like they did in New York City and you might get more density. A lot of advantages to that as well. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 2:42:10Chairman. Mr. McDow. Thank you, chairman. Uh, public transportation has received more federal funding since the beginning of the CO 19 pandemic than at any point in American history.
▶ 2:42:26Emergency relief packages from 2020 to 2021 spent a cumulative $70 billion on the nation's public transportation systems, while the 2021 IIGJ authorized a staggering 108 billion for transit programs. Put simply, the transit sector has received a massive infusion of taxpayer dollars over the past couple years.
▶ 2:42:50Despite this historic investment, ridership rates continue to decline and costs poured into operating and maintaining transit systems are infrequently recovered. As this committee considers the future of public transit funding, I believe that we must find ways to stop the bleeding. I thank the witnesses for testifying before the subcommittee today and I look forward to discussing creative solutions to the current problems facing the public sector. Mr.
▶ 2:43:19Berbball, in your testimony, you describe how contracted service worked to restore monthly ridership in Durham, North Carolina. In your opinion, how can public transit entities coordinate with the private sector to improve both services and safety in a way that is financially sustainable in the long term? Specifically, what do private sector partners and operators bring to the table that can help improve transit efficiencies? Yeah, thank you for the question.
▶ 2:43:48I think in the case of Durham, it's an interesting uh kind of use case because in Durham, as we're carrying out kind of the vision for service for the agency, they come to us and and kind of share what that that vision looks like and then we go to work in terms of finding more efficient ways for them to execute that. And many times it comes down to simply a question of resources. A lot of the agencies are resource strained.
▶ 2:44:13They bring in a private operator and to to really help kind of reassess what's needed to move forward and and we help them to look for ways to run service more efficiently to invest in safety programs um that at the end of the day uh mean that we're running a more reliable and safe service. Um, so the these are all things that we do as we come to the table and kind of partner with our agency customers to uh better equip them to carry out what they see in the future.
▶ 2:44:43Specific to writership, I think in Durham the focus that they they had there was uh trying to figure out how to serve the needs of an evolving community. So, not just simply running service as it has always been run in the past, but looking at who are the who are the people in the community that are most dependent on public transit, who are those that they could maybe uh work with to coax away from their cars and come up with innovative new programs and coverage models that help
▶ 2:45:13drive that ridership. And so, I I think that's really the key for agencies is is really being in a position where they take take that step back. U step back and take a look at the broader landscape of what the needs of the community are and then figure out from a multimodal standpoint. How can they serve those needs better in the future? Gotcha. Thank you, Miss Klein. As discussed earlier, transit programs have received nearly $180 billion over the past few years.
▶ 2:45:42In the previous administration, the FTA tacked on gratuitous environmental justice criteria for many of the funding notices, which had nothing to do with the AY's mission of improving reliable transit service. Prioritizing green investments, in my opinion, does little to help with transit ridership levels or efficiency. In your opinion, how can Congress get the biggest bang for its buck when it comes to federal investments and transit infrastructure?
▶ 2:46:16Thank you for the interesting question. Um, I think that we all especially rural agencies are facing multiple challenges already without the multitude of ones that you discussed initially in your question. So, you know, are all of those regulations really necessary for agencies receiving under a certain dollar amount? Let's say a million dollar or or even $10 million.
▶ 2:46:46Most rural agencies don't get that much. So, again, it's it's one of those right sizing regulations to fit the the type of agency. And I think one of the most fair ways is to do it by the dollar amount that an agency receives. Leave the rest of it up to the state to monitor. Gotcha. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yield back. Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:47:12uh Project 2025, which we know is the constitution of this administration, uh although never read by President Trump, nor has he read the Bible or any other major publications of books in his life, uh proposes that we eliminate all federal support for transit. Mr. Reagan, how would that affect most major cities in the United States? Most people that depend on public ridership, poor people that don't have cars that need to get to work, get to a hospital, get to the grocery store, get to the drugstore.
▶ 2:47:42How would that affect them and affect their lives? I I think it would grind transportation in major cities to a halt. I think people would be unable to get to their place of employment. Um it would they would be unable to get to hospitals, grocery stores, to all the things that people like living in a city So it would be like most of the other things that project 2025 is about.
▶ 2:48:03giving to the rich, the the powerful, the ones with much money, and and give them tax breaks and and not do anything for the poor people that are paying a burden right now. It would certainly have a disproportionate harm on people who rely on public transit or people are lower income, uh, communities of color. Um, you know, there are a lot of areas who rely more disproportionately on public transit who would be hurt the most by this type of decision. Mr. Ford, how would this affect folks in in Jacksonville?
▶ 2:48:31Uh it would be devastating to Jacksonville. Uh on a daily basis we carry nearly 23,000 riders on a daily basis. All vast majority are individuals who are going to work to support our community to support our economy. Uh and uh the health care industry for example, we noticed that during COVID 19 the nurses and support personnel that were supporting our medical facilities.
▶ 2:48:57So, uh, any suspension of federal funding for public transit would be devastating to Jacksonville and our, uh, industry overall as well as the private sector that actually benefits from the investment, uh, that comes from the federal government. Mr. Ford, you've worked in other cities, I presume? Yes, sir. And what what are some of those cities? Uh, I started my career with the New York City transit system as a train conductor. Then worked for the BART system in the Bay Area.
▶ 2:49:23Joined the MARTA system after the 97 Olympics, 96 Olympics. Uh, served as their CEO. Then served as the CEO as the of the San Francisco MTA, and now I have the honor of serving in Jacksonville, Florida. You've you've had quite a career. Congratulations. Come a long way. All those cities would be affected as well. New York especially, I guess, and San Francisco as well. It would be devastating to those cities. They would not uh survive uh that type of uh funding uh loss.
▶ 2:49:54Miss Klein, you represent rural areas that you are a rural area, but would that not hurt your area and other rural areas as well? Thank you. And yes, it would be it would be devastating for us because we already operate on a shoestring. So lack of funding would definitely um make a difference to the many people that we serve. Thank you, Miss Klein. I I've sponsored with Congressman Hank Johnson of of Atlanta the Stronger Communities through Better Transit Act.
▶ 2:50:23Uh that would allow funds to go to operating expenses as well as capital expenses. Uh Mr. Reagan, would that be helpful to most major city uh transportation authorities? It would. It would. Yes, it would be very helpful. Um, and think about also what that operating expense is, what that assistance allows people to do. There's been a lot of talk about safety here. For example, um, most of our safety initiatives, whether it be camera systems, uh, transit ambassadors are really important part of that who are eyes and ears on the ground and also help with fair collection.
▶ 2:50:54Uh, whether it be, you know, security personnel by the in those areas. So by not allowing the flexibility, by dedicating most of it towards capital expenses and not providing operating assistance, we are hindering a lot of the the things that um allow our transit systems to grow, to thrive, to meet the needs of our communities, and to meet the expectations of the riders. Thank you, sir. Mr. Ford, would you have anything to add to that? Uh thank you for the question.
▶ 2:51:21I I just want to reiterate the importance of federal funding, not just to move the people in our communities, but also the downstream impact it would have to the private sector and particularly in communities that are supplying parts for our transit systems, our rolling stock, our infrastructure. Uh while they may not have a major transit system in their community, they may have a major manufacturing facility that is supported in providing jobs to uh people in their community.
▶ 2:51:50leaders in their community. Thank you, sir. Mr. Fagen Fagenbomb, Reason Magazine and and and and Reason uh Foundation prides himself on supporting the rule of law. How have you seen the rule of law being damaged and potentially destroyed by this Well, I think it's maybe good that I'm out of time because that's a that's a question. You're not out of time. You can respond. That's a challenging question.
▶ 2:52:18Um, you know, I think that obligations, let's let's talk transportation because that's what I know best. Obligations from a previous transportation bill should Let's talk rule of law. Well, I don't think anyone is above the Constitution or or the rule of law. So, all laws should be followed. All policies should be followed. Period. Time is expired. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The gentleman yields. Mr. Taylor. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member Norton for holding this hearing today.
▶ 2:52:46And uh thank you to our witnesses for their time and uh testimony and insight. I appreciate that very much. I represent a very rural area. Uh some of my constituents utilize public transportation to commute to work, doctor's appointments, school, or to visit family, but very few. I'm excited to work with the members of this committee to ensure our transit systems are safe and efficiently utilize federal funding.
▶ 2:53:10essentially we have the uh the privilege in my district of of paying for our public transport with our tax dollars. We just by and large don't get any of the benefit. So I do encourage Secretary Duffy to continue taking a close look at how these uh cities are funded and uh make sure that those dollars are being spent efficiently.
▶ 2:53:30Um, and if the the justification for the the wealth transfer from rural America to urban America is that there are communities there that are underserved, I'd point out that uh nine of the 20 poorest counties in Ohio are in my district and four of the top five and we need to get places too. Of course, we like to see urban transit run more like a business.
▶ 2:53:52Uh certainly with the the writership uh they see that it could it definitely could be uh improved upon and uh we've heard some today about the lack of enforcement of rules because they know that the dollars are coming no what. Miss Klein, I appreciate your hard work in the area of uh rural transportation and uh serving rural communities.
▶ 2:54:13Um, are there any rules and procedures under the Federal Transit Administration that affect rural areas disproportionately compared to urban areas in your opinion? Well, I think one of the the major ones is the operating expense um for the uh rurals. We pay 50% match for our operating fees where many of the larger systems are only paying 20%.
▶ 2:54:43To rightsize that and allow us to pay 20% operating instead of 50 would be a huge saving and would allow us to put additional services on the street. And you'll be happy to know that we've always run our system as a business. We're not a nonprofit. We're a business. And if we don't make we don't make the dollars, we can't support our system.
▶ 2:55:07And for 36 years, I've been an important part of a lot of people's lives, including my drivers and staff. I want to make sure those people have a livelihood to come to every day. Seems like in rural areas, if you can't make the the numbers work, you don't get to do it. The dollars are not coming from anywhere else. Um, there's been a lot said about how public transport is 10 times safer than driving traveling in your private vehicle. Could someone explain to me that? Is that just injuries or fatalities from accidents?
▶ 2:55:38Or are you suggesting that you're I'm 10 times less likely to be robbed, raped, or assaulted in in my car than I am on a Anybody want? My my understanding is that has to do with the accident rate of being in the vehicle. It doesn't have to do with the actual crime itself. it's been conflated with crime all day that it's it's 10 times safer to travel in on public uh transportation than it is in your car. Whereas and then we'll say we referred to the crime rate.
▶ 2:56:07Um you're much more susceptible to crime. Would we all agree on a bus or a subway than you are in your private vehicle? Anybody disagree with that? Just we'll make it quick. Raise your hand if you disagree. The American people are tired of federal funds being wasted. When Congress appropriates funds, they should be spent effectively and provide a good return on investment for uh taxpayers. Mr.
▶ 2:56:31Fagenbomb, what changes would should Congress implement to improve transit Well, I think the first change that I would say is allow or maybe require some of the funding for capital to go to operations. One of the challenges that we've had is in the last surface transportation reauthorization bill, there were 101 discretionary grant programs, which is basically taking money away from you and giving it to the executive to use as they see fit.
▶ 2:56:58Now, in theory, if that's used on a quantitative costbenefit basis, that could be okay, but in my view, it wasn't. And so, we're reducing that to one would be good. I'd also like to see metrics in terms of on-time performance, in terms of transit safety, in terms of ridership experience, in terms of making sure that the miles covered um with the routes offered make sense. Um so I think actually building in some more metrics to the system is the way to go. Thank you all for being here today.
▶ 2:57:28Uh chairman, I yield back. The gentleman yields. Miss Titus. Thank you. Uh we've heard a lot about safety today and a lot about cost. I don't like to talk about reliability because that relates to both of those other two things. Uh I represent Las Vegas and we are in the desert. We had 120 degree record temperature last summer.
▶ 2:57:55Extreme heat is one of the challenges that face public transit reliability because you have frequent vehicle breakdowns because of the extreme harsh environmental conditions. Now, the agency in my district that deals with this like RTC, Mr. Ford, we have know some folks in common there. They've advocated for increasing the federal spare ratio from 20% to 30% of the bus fleet.
▶ 2:58:21If you do that with that would allow quicker deployment of replacement vehicles during summer months. Mr. Ford, would you support the FTA reviewing that spare ratio requirement and tell us a little bit about how that might grant greater flexibility, increase reliability and be something that encourages ridership because you know the bus is going to come and it's going to come in a certain Uh thank you for that question and the most important uh aspect obviously is safety but
▶ 2:58:52next to that is rei reliability of our systems and our schedules and the amount of service that we provide. Uh all of our communities are uniquely different in terms of the miles that we cover and serve the climate that we operate in. So Chicago is vastly different than what I experienced in Florida. So I think depending on climate uh I think an examination of spare ratios based on that is uh is is is appropriate.
▶ 2:59:18U I think at this juncture we have to recognize one size doesn't fit all in all of our communities based on climate range of operation uh the duty cycle of our vehicles. uh your duty cycle for your vehicles and your service may be much more intense than that bus operating in Jacksonville, Florida. As a comparison, Miss Klein, wouldn't that be the case comparing urban to rural uh transit as well? Yes.
▶ 2:59:45And I believe in in a high higher ratio than we can currently have. Um we also fight the extreme cold. So we get both ends of the spectrum. So, we might start our day with all of our buses housed, which hasn't always been the case, but midday or after the lunchtime, you might see vehicles that are showing some signs of stress, and having that extra spare ratio to deploy is very important.
▶ 3:00:15um as a I guess an aside because we have bus facilities in eight communities, we have to keep spare ratio um in each of those communities as well. So that ups the need for us to have a little higher spare ratio as well. Thank you. But as we look at this transit bill, I mean the uh highway bill, I think we should take that into account as something to recommend.
▶ 3:00:41Also, when you have the federal funding and you have to supplement it and with the state or local money and the and the fair box, sometimes it's just keeping the buses running. You don't have anything left over for modernizing or for uh equipping in some special way. Maybe y'all could anybody could talk about this. what we could do to make the ride better.
▶ 3:01:02Whether it's accommodating the disabled, whether it's a creative program where you hook with Wi-Fi to the local library system, something like that that gets people on the bus and it makes it safer but makes it more pleasant. Could anybody talk about that, Mr. Ford? Uh, thank you for the question.
▶ 3:01:22Our agencies across the country recognizing the uh the shortage of uh customers uh right after the pandemic have been working very hard to what we call upgrade the customer experience. everything from Wi-Fi on our buses, charging ports on our buses so people can charge uh their uh mobile device on our buses, uh upgrading the bus shelters and bus facilities where or or train stations where people are actually congregating waiting for a bus.
▶ 3:01:52I know in my u my system alone, what we're doing is planting trees in and around the bus shelters to ensure that our passengers have a shaded area along with all of the other benefits of real time passenger information. So a person doesn't walk out to a bus stop and wonder when that next bus is arriving. They know wirelessly on their personal device or they are able to uh look at a stansion with uh some type of public information related to uh train uh bus schedules.
▶ 3:02:21So great deal of work that is occurring to improve the customer experience inside the vehicle as well as off the vehicle in terms of passenger information. Our app is called the my JTA app and you can pay your fair. You could actually also see when your actual bus is arriving at your stop. Shade's very important in hot weather and that also just moving the the bus stop back a few feet makes it much safer and much less likely to be hit by a car.
▶ 3:02:50And that's that's accommodating some needs. So you need to look at the whole picture, I think, to increase that ridership. Yes, ma'am. All right. Well, thank you. And I will follow up with you on some ideas that work for us. Thank you. I'd appreciate that. I yield back. The gentle lady yields. And I'd now like to recognize myself. I want to use my brief remarks and questions to highlight the work done by transit workers. Moving millions of people each day is no small feat, nor is maintaining and repairing fleets of buses, trains, and fairies.
▶ 3:03:19During COVID, transit workers were truly essential workers, moving other essential workers like doctors, nurses, and those in the service industry to and from work. The CDC found that in California, bus and transit workers were 5.2 times more likely to contract COVID. An NYU survey found that 24% of New York City buses and subway workers contracted CO in 2020. Perc has been a surge in crime on transit systems. Transit workers have sadly become victims to criminals.
▶ 3:03:47Public transit employees receive 13C protections under the urban mass transportation act. This includes protection against worsening of positions in relation to employment, continuing of collective bargaining agreements, and paid training and retraining programs. My family company was a union shop and I understand and appreciate the value of organized labor uh that could bring to an organization. Uh my first question uh for Mr.
▶ 3:04:09Reagan, as transit workers have experienced and dealt with COVID and its aftermaths, funding insecurities, and an increased cost in contract services, how have 13C protections ensured that transit workers remained uh as essential partners to our nation's transit systems? Thank you for that question. The uh I mean, put simply, 13C makes sure that people can't use uh federal funds to undermine the existing workforce and their job qualities and their wages.
▶ 3:04:35um it makes sure that we're maintaining a qualified uh level of worker and one where they're being fairly compensated to do that What is there anything specifically that you saw over time begin to erode out of those programs one more so than another? Um not necessarily. I mean know obviously during CO everything was under strain. Uh, you know, we still haven't recovered all the way back from ridership levels, but you're you're right.
▶ 3:05:03People, the bus drivers, the transit operators, the m maintenance workers, they were in harm's way just by going to work. They didn't have the luxury that many of us did to work behind a computer screen. Um, but what was really critical to all that as well is is for the first time with our aid programs to to transportation systems and this wasn't just transit.
▶ 3:05:22This was true with Amtrak and airlines as well was we ensured that all that money went towards payroll and benefit to the workers so we could maintain service and reliability of these these systems. And that was true like that was vitally true for the people who relied on those services during the pandemic, healthcare workers, grocery store workers, things like that. But it was more important because we knew it was going to end at some point. We were going to come out of it and we needed a workforce there that was ready to be able to meet the needs when demand surged back. Um and I thought that was incredibly successful.
▶ 3:05:52I do think we need to go further uh uh certainly on operating um assistance flexibility so how we can use federal funds more effectively to meet the needs. Uh but certainly the labor protections tied to COVID funding and then on top of our existing uh 13C protections meant that our systems were able to rebound pretty quickly coming out of that out of the pandemic. Thank you for that. Uh Mr.
▶ 3:06:16Bonberg, are there particular services or transportation modes within transit systems where contracting with private partners can offer a significant benefit uh or operational efficiencies? Yeah, thank you for the question.
▶ 3:06:30Yeah, I think in in general terms when you bring a private contractor into the mix, they're looking at what the short and long range plans are for any given agency uh what mo multimodal approach that they want to take and they're figuring out how can we run it most efficiently, most effectively, not just from an operations standpoint, but from a safety perspective. Um from the perspective of training employees, making sure that they have a clear path for uh succession and career development.
▶ 3:06:58Um, these are all the things that a private operator brings to the table. Are there any glaring efficiency changes that could be brought forward by Congress or ways that we can implement more efficient ways to Yeah. I mean, in in my opening, you may remember that I I talked a little bit about the contracting itself. So, I think we as NATA, we feel like there is an opportunity um to encourage agencies to look at private contracting as an option.
▶ 3:07:28uh that's more viable for them. Today, uh you know, about 50% of agencies are contracting in some form or fashion. That could mean a small portion of the service. It could mean all of the service. Uh we'd really like to see uh agencies be encouraged to to look at uh the opportunity for our members to to participate in RFPs for services that don't exist today. Thank you for that.
▶ 3:07:55Uh, I yield the remaining 12 seconds and to Miss Poe. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me just begin with saying that with nearly 40,000 zero vehicles household in my district, the safety, reliability, and efficiency of accessible transportation is a core priority for my constituents.
▶ 3:08:19Our transit workers provide vital services to our communities and offer an increasingly safe mode of transportation. I look forward to working with my colleagues to find common sense solutions to address transportation safety, staffing, and reliability challenges and to rebuild the public confidence in our system. With that being said, Mr. Regan and uh Mr.
▶ 3:08:46Uh, frauden bond. How do how do you say it? Figen bow. F. Okay, good. Thank you. As we look to uh improve uh passenger safety, what challenges do you face in using federal funding to support security measures like cameras or improved um lighting?
▶ 3:09:09Um, and what solutions what solutions would you propose to address the federal restrictions uh regarding funding transit operations? Mr. Regan, thank you for the question. We um, you know, first of all, I think uh, a lot of the programs that improve security and safety on board are would be considered they' fall under operating costs uh, which are not allowed for communities over 200,000 people.
▶ 3:09:37um all of that federal funding has to go towards capital costs. So when you're talking about transit ambassadors, security cameras, better um doors and entranceways, all of that is coming through oper operating assistance costs. If we can change the federal law to make it available for those purposes um and I think that's a really important part. As I said earlier, you know, there are going to be situations where a local transit agency needs capital assistance so they can buy new buses, upgrade their equipment, up do that.
▶ 3:10:06There are also going to be situations where transit operators do not need new capital expenses. They need to operating assistance so they can maintain routes or grow service or in this example of the World Cup. They have a big operational need coming right now and they're going to need some assistance to be able to meet the the flow of people. Um so how we structure these programs to make sure that that agencies can apply for the type of funding they need is going to be an an important part about how we move forward uh in transit in this country. Thank you for that.
▶ 3:10:35Let me just say and then I definitely want to hear um the gentleman's response to to my question. I I think that's vitally important especially when my state of New Jersey is indeed going to be one of those states that will be hosting the World Cup.
▶ 3:10:52So to having the the ability to have those transportation operations in place and having the the the wherewithal to do that in a safe and reliable manner will be critically important not only to my state but throughout various other states in the country but especially for my within my district where the World Cup is actually going to uh take effect um back in uh New Jersey. Thank you.
▶ 3:11:22Yeah. So I would say it comes down to in some ways how money is being spent and I think it also goes to this this capital costs which is that one of the problems with you know building building new systems in addition to the fact that that's obviously eating up revenue is that it's kind of taking the focus away from the nuts and bolts and the nuts and bolts I mean nothing is more vital than safety. you know, we say that in the roadways, that's true in transit. And so, there's got to be, you know, a little bit more dedication, I think, of funding.
▶ 3:11:52Um, I I I don't think that's something that there's there's much opposition to. I would also say there's been talk about cameras. There's been talked about barriers for the drivers. Um, we've talked a little bit about higher fair gates on rail systems, which tends to deter people that are that are not doing there. And we've talked about a viable police system. Um, and there might be some new creative ways that that other a transit agencies are working with, but I'd certainly start with those four. Thank you. Thank you so very much. And thank you, Mr. Fajin Bon. I'm sorry I mispronounced your name at the very beginning.
▶ 3:12:22Um, I know that my time is coming to a very quick close. Let me just thank you both. Uh, very quickly, moving on to our community needs. Mr. uh Burbon uh B and Miss Klein very quickly, what what can the committee do to further improve transit services that provide people with access to the necessities like grocery stores, schools, and medical care. Thank you. Just keep funding us.
▶ 3:12:53We'll make sure they get to the grocery store and to school. Thank you. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. Okay, that was an easy enough qu uh answer. Thank you so very much. Um thank you all to all the witnesses. I'm I really appreciate the time and the information that you've all provided. I look forward to working together to support our transportation system uh systems uh in this Congress. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 3:13:22I yield back. Gentle lady yields. I recognize the gentleman from Utah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Prom Vandrew, appreciate your allowance in my opportunity to visit with these witnesses and thank you for your testimony today. I appreciate your expertise and the ways you've responded to our questions. Just last week, I hosted a meeting between Utah state leadership and our federal delegation. And one thing was very clear, Utah consistently gets things done and we do it faster, cheaper, and more efficiently than the federal government.
▶ 3:13:51I believe that applies to my witnesses at the table as well. During a recent visit to Utah, Secretary Duffy had the chance to see our transit system in action. and he shared that Utah is doing it the right way. Utah's dynamic and growing transit system, including the frontr runner commuter rail, relied on support from programs like the capital investment grant program. These investments allow Utah to address current transit demands while laying the groundwork for long-term and sustainable growth. Utah is doing its part to make every federal dollar count.
▶ 3:14:19However, in order to help states do what they do best, the federal government needs to become a better partner, one that empowers local decision-making rather than creating unnecessary obstacles. That starts with rolling back outdated regulatory hurdles like the duplicative NEPA process that slow down progress and drive up costs. So, to all of the panelists, and if you'd be willing, and I'll I'll start with Mr. Ford, followed by Miss Klene, Mr. Bterbau, Mr. Fangenbomb, and Mr. Regan. I just wanted to say those names by the way. They're really impressive names.
▶ 3:14:48Um, a few of you uh carry some really interesting names along the way. So, this question is for all of you. If you'd be willing to take a moment just to answer this. Time is money, and that's especially true when it comes to infrastructure. Red tape and delays don't just stall projects, they raise costs and limit access. So, to reduce costs and keep projects on schedule, are there specific aspects of the FTA's NEPA process that you believe are redundant or unnecessarily burdensome? And I'd appreciate if the panel could identify specific areas for reform. Mr. Klein or Mr. forward if you'd start.
▶ 3:15:17Clearly uh as it relates to NEPA the we would like to have parity or comparability to what's happening with the Federal Highway Administration within the FTA. uh the challenge of not being able to secure right ofway uh in advance of the going through the full NEPA process creates a challenge for us and actually increases the cost of the project and slows down the kind of preliminary steps to get a successful project launched and so that is uh we're not asking for a totally
▶ 3:15:48new policy but looking at just comparable policy to what is being done by the Federal Highway Administration. Thank you very much Miss Klein. And I echo what Mr. Ford said. Um, and we have projects that it has held up because of the NEPA process. Small agencies in particular, going back to that four administrative staff to my um, program of 60. That's huge for us when we have that hold up. So, make us comparable.
▶ 3:16:19Thank you, Mr. Budabau. Yeah. as a private operator, we don't really receive any uh proceeds directly, but just from from an indirect perspective, I mean, the ability for federal dollars there to be more flexibility in federal dollars being spent both on infrastructure as well as operating costs will be very impactful for our customers. So, um, thank you, Mr. Fing.
▶ 3:16:45Yeah, I would say it NEPA is basically a part of streamlining of environmental reviews. You know, we have processes in this country where it can take 8 10 years depending on and you know other countries do it in half the time at half the cost and we're not really helping the environment. So, we need to look at this bureaucratic mess that we've sort out and streamline it so we can get these projects done more cheaply and quickly. Mr.
▶ 3:17:09Uh I I agree that we in not just in transit but in transportation broadly we need to uh figure out a way to better speed up project delivery. Uh and I think that also it enables you all in in making the laws also to to talk about we're making investments in our communities because people see the results more quickly. They see investments in their communities. They see expansion of lines. They see all that stuff.
▶ 3:17:30Um, but I also think going back to what we was we were saying earlier on the difference between operating and capital and providing more flexibility to meet communities where they are and what they need uh and reforming our program so that uh the agencies the communities themselves can make the decisions about what are most needed for their systems and I think there's a great opportunity coming up to be to do just that. Thank you very much Mr. Chair Prom. I yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. I recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Dane.
▶ 3:18:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the witnesses. Uh challenging times, particularly the last five years in transit. I represent a district in the East Bay, the San Francisco Bay area. It's home to four of the 10 mega commutes in the United States. Uh we still have a car culture, so trying to get people our densities up. So the model's better in the suburbs where I represent, we've done on land use, but trying to get people consistently to use BART in particular and connect to the other agencies.
▶ 3:18:31Um, but we have a lot of people who like remote work and their employers do. So San Francisco is about 50% vacancy with what's happening today and the tech industry in Silicon Valley as we build out the system of there. I wanted to ask you starting Mr. Ford and Mr. Reagan maybe follow up. Um, we've done all the right stuff. I think BART is we've put the fairgates in. It's safer. Uh they're not dealing with as much of the social problems, but they still are.
▶ 3:18:58But there's wonderful opportunity at least in our area and similar to Boston and DC where the employers in the workforce get good productivity from people staying home. Um getting them in the office three days a week is a huge change for us, but it's a challenge for transit.
▶ 3:19:13So how do we adapt to that sort of accept best practices between COVID now the economy and particularly demographics where the employers like Salesforce Salesforce was one of our biggest employers they are cutting office space and have found with fairly robust um oversight that they get value as employers with their workforce if they can stay home and the difference in people's quality of life in two income households are spending an hour and a half either on transit or driving is really
▶ 3:19:43significant. So, how can we keep you going and get ridership up, but also take the benefit of getting people to be productive, but at least one of those two incomes to be able to stay home with their kids and still be of greater value really two days a week than they would be if they were commuting long times in a San Francisco or Silicon Valley or Manhattan or 128 or downtown Boston or in your area? Well, thank you for the question.
▶ 3:20:11Uh first I would say that yes there has been a change in terms of the core ridership for public transportation and so the backbone had been those home to work trips. Uh at in my at my own property one of the things we are ex we are have seen uh is a lot of discretionary trips and trips that might not be as long but shorter within a community in terms of actual trips.
▶ 3:20:37And so that has uh led us to redesigning our route structure and also looking at microtransit as an alternative. I would also add though we are starting to see increases each year year-over-year and that wrership seems to be coming back as it relates to some of the return to work uh directives that are occurring by corporations where yes there's a work life balance clearly with people being able to work from home but there also there may be a loss of productivity by not having individuals in the office being
▶ 3:21:07able to collaborate and work together. So, uh, I think over the next few years, we're going to have to continue to examine these travel patterns that not may not be workrelated, but they may be recreation related or they may be other necessities around healthcare and things of that nature. So, uh, we we'll still have to examine those patterns going forward. So, Mr. Reagan, how do we support your members who are hardworking and difficult circumstances, but the people are commuting, they're serving also are hardworking? Mhm.
▶ 3:21:36They they are and and I think it is important to evaluate, you know, the commuting patterns or the travel patterns of each individual city. And I don't I don't think any of them are going to be exactly the same. You know, there needs to be flexibility within the federal aid programs to um where agencies can apply for what they need to identify what their uh community needs are going forward. But I also think we can't abandon um those core users who are rely on that so critically to keep our our cities and our communities moving.
▶ 3:22:06And that includes people who are transit dependent. Whether uh you're in a city where it's just not plausible to own a car or you can't physically drive. Um and we also have people that rely on it for um you know for different types of jobs whether you work in in healthcare, whether you work work in grocery stores. So we can't abandon the core users while also identifying where there are opportunities for growth. And I just one last comment on the previous questions uh and if you can respond Mr.
▶ 3:22:33Reagan brief briefly um as BART has built out a longterm project to get BART to Silicon Valley with all the changes the procurement process has been gamed and it's way over budget and maybe just a comment following your previous comments. Um, again, project I think project delivery is something that we need to uh we we need to figure out collectively in a way that's not going to sacrifice safety of the people actually doing the work and also not sacrifice environmental values.
▶ 3:23:01Um, but there's certainly ways that we can do that better and the labor movement is ready to be a partner in all of that as well. I know you are. I want to hear that. Thank you. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. I recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Barison. Thank you. Over the past five years, the Federal Transit Administration has been provided with nearly $250 billion dollars of federal taxpayer dollars.
▶ 3:23:29Um they received more federal funding since the pandemic than any point in our nation's history. However, despite that historic level, uh the 2025 report card recently published by the American Society of Civil Engineers gave our nation's public transit system a Dlet letter grade. which I don't know about you, but I find that unacceptable. Mr.
▶ 3:23:52Ford, do you believe that the D letter grade accurately reflects the state of our uh transit infrastructure? We we believe that the backlog uh which is approaching a hundred billion dollars in terms of backlog in federal funding for public transportation has led to a less than stellar rate as it relates to our infrastructure.
▶ 3:24:17We are not happy with that uh rating and that is why we are uh uh aggressively imploring that uh there's additional funding, federal funding that goes towards reinvestment in our transit systems uh some of which that are aged and need rehabilitation and get to a state of good repair. So you're saying despite record levels of funding, it's there's still a huge backlog. Yes, sir.
▶ 3:24:42There is still a huge backlog in spite of the record levels of funding for uh public transportation. Um we had the Biden infrastructure law which provided the transit industry about 108 billion in funding alone. Where did that money go? That money went to uh new transit systems, rehabilitation of rolling stock and infrastructure track programs as well as facility upgrades. uh but clearly it was not enough.
▶ 3:25:12And one point I'd like to reiterate is the 77% of that actual funding goes to the private sector. So it goes towards projects. It goes towards real uh uh rolling stock as well as infrastructure projects to maintain and expand our transit network. Thank you, Mr. Ford. Mrs.
▶ 3:25:31Klein, Miss Klein, in your testimony, you highlight that one way that this committee can assist smaller rural transit systems um in upcoming surface reauthorization is by broadly rightsizing the regulatory burdens, citing that much of the regul regulatory and data collection efforts promulgated by the federal government are designed for the nation's largest transit transit operators, not the small rural operators.
▶ 3:25:59Could you expand on what you mean by broadly right sizing those regulatory burdens? Thank you for the question and again I'll reiterate we have four administrative staff to do all of our um reporting requirements meet the the monthly requirements from our DOS and so forth and so on. So we don't have the ability to meet the regulations wi within the time frames that they need to be met.
▶ 3:26:29Although we do meet them, but um some of those could be downsized. And again, I'll go to Are there some that are that are kind of pointless in your mind? Oh, yeah. Quite a few of them. You have a list of them? Yeah, I do. I I can get you the list. We would love to have that list. Yeah. Um so, in your view, some of these um are are definitely not necessary.
▶ 3:26:53And so we would I would love to get that because I think that this this administration one thing that we can do is and figure out how we can cut red tape. Mr. Bterba, in your testimony, you make an interesting point that um multiple private sector entities compete for transit contracts is better um and will maximize every dollar. Can you expound on that? Yeah, I mean it's pretty simple for us.
▶ 3:27:20We believe that the more competition there is that the uh sharper the price point is going to be on these services. And we think that there's things that can be done from a contracting standpoint and and a procurement standpoint that can really in drive further competition between the private sector. Um you know some of those are you know looking at things like liquidated damages today. They're kind of wide open for private contractors.
▶ 3:27:47We s I suggested in my testimony on behalf of NATA that we cap them at 1% uh for both uh incentives and disincentives on the contract. We think that's a good way to drive more private interest and also through the the bidding process um put agencies in a position where they're getting far more competitive pricing. Thank you panelists. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. I recognize the gentle lady from California, Miss Freriedman.
▶ 3:28:16Thank you very much, Chair Roser and Ranking Member Norton, who is not here right now, and our witnesses for coming to testify today. You know, I was very excited to get on this committee, and one reason is because it's a place where I do believe we can work across the aisle on issues that are important to the American people. And I have heard several things today from my uh Republican colleagues that I completely agree with, and I want to call a few of those out. One having to do with us having a D-grade in transit. And I do think it's important that we keep that in mind.
▶ 3:28:44And I I believe that we do need to bring our transit grade way up and that the way to do that is to increase our investments in transit. It's as simple as that. Our investments in transit in the United States are dwarfed by our investments in roads and many other uh types of infrastructure that we invest in. In fact, we should be investing in infrastructure in general in this country. Uh we're a wealthy nation and our infrastructure should should reflect that.
▶ 3:29:13And to me, there's no better place to spend money than in transit. Uh I also agree with my Republican colleagues who just spoke about permitting and making sure that when we have regulations, when we have permits that they uh that they're additive to our goals.
▶ 3:29:29I am proud that when I chaired the transportation committee in California, I was part of doing permitting reform that was narrowly tailored but looked at the overall environmental benefit of transit projects and found ways to streamline those so that we could get those projects on the ground with a lot less process and certainly looking forward to opportunities to work across the aisle with my colleagues on ways that we can do that at the federal level.
▶ 3:29:53Uh I do want to bring up uh you know we've talked about um uh the economic uh u impact of the investments in transit and I'm going to mention a few of those in a second. Uh but I also want to remind people that another part of transit investments that people don't often think about is their impact on our ability to solve other problems. And namely in Los Angeles, our biggest one of our biggest crises right now is around housing and uh people's ability to find housing after the recent fires that we had.
▶ 3:30:22And even prior to that, a lack of housing has led to a crisis in how to housing affordability. And I've always contended that we can't fix our housing problem in our urban areas and and in any area without fixing mobility. Uh there's a variety of reasons why people oppose housing and one of the the biggest ones we hear is because of impacts to congestion, traffic congestion, and parking. And the fix to that is better public transportation. It's something that the public supports.
▶ 3:30:48It's something that they use when it's safe and it's convenient and runs quickly uh to give people that that better way of moving around their communities. Helps us also solve our housing crisis. Now, in Los Angeles, LA Metro has recently received $700 million from the bipartisan infrastructure law to support three large expansion projects. We're very excited about that in LA. These projects are going to generate billions of dollars in revenue.
▶ 3:31:12They're going to create thousands of good paying jobs, and they're going to reduce traffic congestion and connect Los Angeles much better to the places where they need to go. And I do believe that it's going to um answer those questions um about people who are concerned about adding more h the the housing that we desperately need in our region. The Dline extension alone is going to produce over $3 billion in business revenue and create over 22,000 jobs in the construction phase alone.
▶ 3:31:38And I will mention that we're going to be hosting FIFA in Los Angeles and the Olympics. And we have promised people in other countries a way to get around our community. And I hope that we use that upcoming event to continue to invest. Uh Mr. Ford, as you know, every billion dollars that we invest in public transportation sustains approximately $5 billion in long-term economic impact and 50,000 jobs.
▶ 3:32:03And I was hoping that you would speak broadly to the importance that of investment that you've seen in your community and what that has done uh in your part of the world. Thank you for uh thank you for that question. And it's clear the better we move our communities, the stronger that they become financially, healthwise, as well as educationally uh wise.
▶ 3:32:22And uh representing APA today is a great honor to just reiterate that story of public transportation and the ability it has to improve the quality of lives in our community, not just by moving people.
▶ 3:32:35And that's why that statistic is so telling in that there are communities that do not have public transportation that depend on our operations, depend on our investment, our contracts, our purchases of rolling stock to sustain their communities either through a manufacturing plant or some other activity that supports our large transit systems or transit systems across the country.
▶ 3:32:58So, thank you for reiterating that fact that a dollar spent in public transportation yields $5 in economic impact and literally 77% of the federal funding we receive goes to the private sector to build these projects and maintain our systems. Thank you. My time is up and I yield back.
▶ 3:33:19Gentle lady yields back and I yield five minutes to You know, funding alone is not going to fix fix a broken transportation system. Money is important. We all know it. It's real important. But besides the money, there are other issues. We put 180 billion invested through the infrastructure investment and jobs act, which I supported by the way, bipartisan way. Yet major challenges persist. Wrership is still low.
▶ 3:33:47Fair revenues haven't recovered completely. Crime in some cases is up. and agencies continue to fall short of delivering results that justify completely this level of support. Meanwhile, the flow of federal funds is too slow. The feds are at fault, too. The process too confusing and oversight sometimes is too weak.
▶ 3:34:09That's why the upcoming reauthorization must focus on smarter investments, faster delivery, stronger oversight, and real accountability. We got to do things differently. You know, um I have a friend of mine who's from the south in a rural area and he has this saying, "Get her done. Get her done." Did you ever hear that? Let's get this done. Let's see if we can get this done.
▶ 3:34:36Everybody supports I really do believe the vast majority of members of Congress and the public support public transportation as was said by number of my colleagues. if it's clean, if it's safe, if it's quick, if it's responsive. Local agencies are stuck navigating vague guidance, red tape, shifting timelines that causes delay and it increases costs. Uh it leaves communities waiting and waiting and waiting. We're behind schedule on many projects. Mr.
▶ 3:35:05Fagenbomb, thank you first of all for being here today. How can the FTA improve clarity and consistency so the funds are delivered faster that the projects are done on schedule on time and on budget? Sure. So that thank you for the question. I think the first thing is to set up a detailed timeline of the of the amount of time maximum times it would take for a project to be delivered or for a project to go through review and the funds to be expended.
▶ 3:35:35right now there really isn't such a timeline and I think that would be helpful. Two, I think there needs to be some clear guidance uh in as to exactly what information agencies want and some maybe realisticness. There was a time when a detailed costbenefit analysis um was required and many smaller agencies really didn't have the resources for that and so FDA staff actually ended up doing it themselves and so it was kind of a silly thing to ask for.
▶ 3:36:03So, it's a combination of detailed timeline, clear instructions, and making sure the agency's asking for realistic information. Good answer. Could you do me a favor and get that response you just gave me to the staff here in Transportation Infrastructure Committee and to me personally in my office as well? Sure. Thank you. You know, I think we all agree taxpayers deserve to know what's going on, how where their money is going, why they're spending this money, if we're making things better, if we're making them more efficient, if it's working.
▶ 3:36:33Period. So, Mr. Mr. Fagenbomb, I'm picking on you today. Should agencies be required to, in fact, real quickly, almost like a yes or no, if you could all answer this. Should agencies be required to report real time data on safety, service, and ridership to ensure accountability? And I'll start actually with Mr. Reagan. It's kind of a short answer if you could. Uh I'm sorry. What was the question? Okay, we'll skip you for now. Mr. Fagenbomb. Um yes, I do.
▶ 3:37:02With the technology today, it's very doable. Mr. Budabot, I think it would be great. Uh it would require a lot of infrastructure investment to do it. Miss Klene, I agree with the gentleman. So you're saying great idea. It's going to cost a lot of bucks. Mr. forward the answer is yes and right now apta reports that type of data uh particularly wrership data every week so Mr.
▶ 3:37:28Reagan was to report real time data on safety, service, and ridership. 100%. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Funding flexibility has its place and it's good and we're all about that. I think bipartisan, but it shouldn't come at the expense of oversight. Would you support Congress placing clearer limits on the use of federal transit funds to pre prevent waste and mismanagement before it happens? Again, we only have a few seconds, so real quick.
▶ 3:37:59Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that wouldn't cost a ton of money. I think that's something that that's really doable. So, I think these are things maybe as a committee we should look at. I appreciate any input my office would. I know the good great staff here. We in transportation infrastructure would and maybe we can actually do something. I know that's weird for Congress, but maybe we actually could. being a little sarcastic.
▶ 3:38:27Thank you so much uh for your time and I yield back. Mr. Carbal, Mr. Car Mr. Carbajal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know you saved the best for last, but I was just when I said that, somebody else came in. So, uh almost the best for last. Uh Mr. Ford in my district, the Santa Barbara Metropolitan Transit District, had previously received federal dollars through the stick program.
▶ 3:38:54However, due to population growth, it disqualified MTD from the stick funds. This has translated to roughly a $3 million loss annually. Can you discuss how Congress can work to ensure that high-performing community public transit providers like MTD that serve medium-sized urbanized areas are able to compete for federal dollars in order to continue offering quality and
▶ 3:39:24affordable transportation services to the public? Thank you. Uh thank you for the question. Uh can you hear me? Okay. Seems like Yeah. Okay, thank you for the question. I think uh when we talk about the midsize systems, we have a unique uh uh a unique environment to operate within and uh it is a challenge to continue to compete similar to the rural systems with our larger brothers and sisters and the larger systems.
▶ 3:39:53uh I'd be well open to uh specifically working with you and your office to identify what has been the success of the JTA and what were some of those uh strategies that we used. I I think I'd need more time to get back to you on that specific an answer. Thank you. Look forward to working with you. Mr. Ford, there are 61 transit projects at various stages of development in the pipeline for capital investment grant funding.
▶ 3:40:21These projects are established to meet the mobility and economic opportunity needs identified by local communities. The bipartisan infrastructure law provided a historic $23 billion for the CIG program, 8 billion of which was guaranteed funding. Your testimony notes that several CIG projects that are making a difference in the communities across the country.
▶ 3:40:46How important is robust and reliable federal funding in getting these projects built on time and on budget? It's key to uh thank you for the question. It's key to the successful delivery of that project for our communities. When we talk about capital projects, having that that knowledge in advance that the money is secure, the funding is secure to move forward.
▶ 3:41:09It allows us to properly plan and set up the right uh consultant and engineering and construction processes to deliver that program. Also, it gives us the opportunity to really articulate to our community the benefits of that program. So, it cuts out a lot of the uncertainty in terms of what needs to be advanced uh for your community and the successful delivery of that project. So, certainty is important. Thank you, Mr. Regan.
▶ 3:41:38According to the American Public Transportation Association, every $1 invested in transit generates five in economic return. The bipartisan infrastructure law was really a jobs bill. However, recent actions by the US Department of Transportation to delay meadow and cancel transit funding threatens the livelihoods of workers directly and indirectly connected to this industry.
▶ 3:42:04Can you discuss the impacts of unpredictable and punitive punitive actions by several administration executive orders have had on the workforce? Yes, thank you for the question. Um, you know, one thing that that I found to be a little frustrating during this hearing is hearing people say, "Well, in the last five years, is your microphone on?" It is. Yeah. There we go.
▶ 3:42:29But in the last 5 years, you know, we've had record amount of m money for uh for public transit and how come it's not better? We still have a Dgrade on on the for the Society of Civil Engineers. When you have chronically underfunded some uh a sector of our country like public transit for decades, uh it's not going to bounce back like that. Mr. Larson said that in the beginning. But as we are finally funding these programs at a level that I think should be our normal level, should be our baseline.
▶ 3:42:57In fact, it should be we should be growing off of it. Um, and now we're going to be meddling with the project delivery at this stage of a five-year bill. It's only going to uh hurt jobs. It's going to delay projects.
▶ 3:43:11Uh, and it's going to make it harder for you all, for Congress to to go back and say, "Look at what the accomplishments we had the last time we made real investments in these programs, and we need to build upon it." But if we're not seeing real results, if they're delaying projects, delaying and cutting jobs, uh that makes the selling job a little bit harder in terms of two constituents, if we're not if we're going to be going back and saying we need to re reinvest this on a much bigger level and continue to invest in our communities, um these types of actions are only going to hurt that momentum that we already
▶ 3:43:41seeing right now. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm out of time. I yield back. Thank you. And we did save the absolute best for last. Just want you to know. Thank you for noting that. You're out of you're you're out of order. Let's get Um I have a question for Mr. Reagan. Uh Mr. Reagan, have instances of crime on public transit increased over the past Uh yes, certainly on operators. Yes. On the uh people I represent.
▶ 3:44:10You do we have any data to indicate why that is? I don't know exactly why. I mean I it's hard to legislate the uh human you know condition but tell me about it. Um this is for all the witnesses. Are traditional security measures like security cameras and police present sufficient to deter crime on public Mr. Ford I I think those uh thank you for the question. I think those are foundational.
▶ 3:44:37But uh there are different technologies that our agencies are now deploying using artificial intelligence, using uh weapon detection in terms of uh cameras and CCTV, uh using artificial intelligence to predict where there may be a proliferation of particular crimes in a certain area. That way you can target your actual police and uh and enforcement uh resources. Deescalation training for our operators.
▶ 3:45:04So they recognize someone who's having a mental issue and how to deescalate that situation. So a lot of different tools are need that needed to be deployed and our agencies are doing that. Any of the others? Yeah, I would just add that one of the things that we've noticed in our operations is that there's a direct link to places where you are running fair free. There seems to be more assaults in location. Running what? Fair free. Yeah. Okay.
▶ 3:45:34But I do agree with Mr. Ford. There's a variety of things that we're trying to keep our operators safe, but it is a Yeah, they're they're a big part of the solution. Um that in some agencies haven't been ramped up quickly enough in my opinion. I would also say that um fairgates, higher fair gates are a big part of the solution and um you know more protections uh in buses for drivers. Well, let me ask you.
▶ 3:46:00I worry about the poor folks, at least amongst us, so to speak, that can't afford that. How do you segregate that community between the folks that are just on a bad run of luck and the dirt bags? Yeah. Well, I think I think the poor folks are actually who we should be focusing on in transit. And I think it comes down to in some cases there might be a rationale for a discounted fair, but there's still something that folks are paying on the system.
▶ 3:46:29And it's not I mean it's not cheap, but it's not that expensive to to give drivers protection. You know, spending your money there as opposed to operating routes that don't have enough riders or or building new capital systems, which can be tremendously expensive, is the right place to focus resources, federal, state, and local. I know AI was mentioned. Are there any other technologies that we could incorporate into public infrastructure to deter deter some of this crime? Mr. forward.
▶ 3:46:57Well, one system and thank you for the question. One system that we are deploying now at the JTA, my Jacksonville Transportation Authority is actually monitors where the passengers actually see themselves. You may see that in a lot of department stores and things of that nature.
▶ 3:47:13And so when we piloted it, we that system we saw that it did encourage behaviors not the far criminal, you know, it deters criminal behavior, but more importantly just behaviors that are not acceptable in public that we were just like a camera they see a Yeah.
▶ 3:47:28So, you actually see yourself sitting on that vehicle and that has triggered a certain behavioral response relative to just uh outbursts, you know, cursing uh and uh you know, behaviors that are not com that are not appropriate in public. Somebody like me would be uh afraid that my mama would see something like that back in the day. Well, we're showing you our eyes are on you. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
▶ 3:47:52I was in um in the Middle East and I remembered I walked into this area and it wasn't particularly friendly towards people from our country. I'll just leave it at that. And um and they had facial recognition and I remember I asked one of their leaders. I said, "Is that facial recognition?" "Oh no, we don't have anything like that." And I took a picture of it because it had my face on it and I thought, "Man, if the Taliban had me on file, they're they're really digging deep." But anyway, um anybody else would ma'am, you haven't said one thing up here. I haven't heard you.
▶ 3:48:22You have anything to add to any of this? Well, we do have cameras in all of our vehicles and also outside of our facilities. And I will tell you that in our area, law enforcement comes to us fairly routinely to check on different activities because there aren't a lot of um cameras. We're in a residential area, but um also we use those to monitor children's behavior on the bus.
▶ 3:48:49So, if your mama was on the same track that these mamas are on, we can tell them if Joey was being a good boy or not. Well, my mama's with Jesus right now, so she's all right. She's doing better. Her and daddy are doing better than all of us. So, thank you. Um, and I want to thank y'all for being here. Um, apparently I have to read this. I'm not generally the chairman and usually, uh, I will never chair a committee or, uh, be in leadership. Uh, I'll tell you that. Um, let's see here. Thank you all.
▶ 3:49:19Um the gentle lady um the gentleman yields back which is me. I'm yielding back. I'm a little cautious of calling myself a gentleman that usually anytime anybody calls me the honorable Tim Burchett. I'm always afraid I know what they're getting ready to ask. They need a bridge or a library or something. That's right. So I have to be very very careful with that. Um are there further questions from any members of the subcommittee who have not been recognized? I see none. Uh that concludes our hearing for today and I would like to thank each of our witnesses for your testimony.
▶ 3:49:50The subcommittee stands adjourned.