▶ 0:00:55Hello. Heat.
▶ 0:01:27Thank you very much.
▶ 0:02:11Here we are.
▶ 0:06:04The subcommittee on highways and transit will come to order. I ask unanimous consent that the chairman be authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. I also ask unanimous consent that members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit on the subcommittee at today's hearing and ask questions. Without objection, so ordered. As a reminder, if members wish to insert a document into the record, please also email it to documents ti mail.house.gov.
▶ 0:06:36I now recognize myself for the purposes of an opening statement for five minutes. Today's hearing focuses on the importance of long-term certainty and stability for the highway trust fund. This timely discussion is part of a series of subcommittee hearings as we work to develop and enact an on-time multi-year surface bill.
▶ 0:06:56Congress created the highway trust fund in 1956 to provide a dedicated federal revenue source based on a user pays model for the construction of the interstate highway system. Congress began with a 3 cents per gallon excise tax on gasoline allocated to the trust fund.
▶ 0:07:14Currently, the highway trust fund is funded by excise taxes on gas and diesel fuels, as well as taxes on truck tires, truck and trailer sales, and heavy vehicle users, with the most recent adjustment to the tax on gas and diesel fuels in 1993. Since 2001, spending from the highway trust fund has exceeded its revenues.
▶ 0:07:36During the most recent fiscal year, the highway trust fund collected nearly 50 billion in revenues and interest, but spent 70.6 billion, a deficit of more than 20 billion, which is a pretty significant gap. To ensure the trust fund's continued solveny, Congress has transferred a total of 275 billion from the Treasury's general fund to the highway trust fund since 2008.
▶ 0:08:02Without a serious solution, our state, local, and private sector partners risk losing a reliable funding source critical to project delivery and our national economy. While general fund bailouts have offered short-term relief at the expense of the individual American taxpayer, they do not address the long-term challenges that plague the highway trust fund.
▶ 0:08:23The last several surface transportation authorization bills have continued to authorize highway and mass transit authorizations beyond what the highway trust fund can reasonably support. The current surface transport transportation law or the infrastructure investment and jobs act increased highway trust fund spending by more than 36%. But made no reforms to revenue streams resulting in 118 billion general fund transfer to cover that gap.
▶ 0:08:52Now, there are a number of different thoughts about how to address the fundamental structural challenges of the current funding mechanism to fund the highway trust fund, and all have their pros and cons. Meanwhile, gasoline and diesel taxes, which have remained unchanged since 1993, have lost 73% of their purchasing power.
▶ 0:09:11If Congress had chosen to index the gas and diesel taxes to inflation back in 1993, an additional 480 billion in federal revenues would have been raised, most of which would have been deposited into the highway trust fund. Obviously, gas tax revenue will continue to to decline as cars become more fuel efficient. Electric vehicles require no fuel and therefore obviously are not paying into the highway trust fund.
▶ 0:09:37CBO estimates gas tax revenues, the majority of the trust fund receipts will decline by nearly 40% 40% over the next decade. Fortunately, this committee is intent on addressing the shortfall in a fair and equitable manner.
▶ 0:09:52Through reconciliation, this committee will propose a $200 annual registration fee on electric vehicles at the federal level, which will raise tens of billions of dollars in additional revenue for the highway trust fund over the next decade to better ensure that all users of our roads are paying to maintain those roads. While a step in the right direction and the first real attempt by Congress to address the trust fund solveny problems in more than 30 years, this fee alone, of course, will certainly not solve the estimated $142 billion shortfall.
▶ 0:10:23Given that backdrop, we look forward to hearing from our witnesses on potential solutions and new innovative methods we might employ to fund our surface transportation programs. And so therefore, I thank each of you uh for being here today. I now recognize our ranking member for five minutes for an opening statement. Miss thank you.
▶ 0:10:50I I want to thank uh subcommittee chairman uh Rouser for holding this hearing. The highway trust fund guarantees predictable funding to state and local partners, empowering communities to build the infrastructure they need.
▶ 0:11:09However, since 2008, trust fund spending has outpaced revenue, a trend that is projected to exhaust the trust fund by 2028. Therefore, Congress must find a solution to ensure the solveny of of the of the trust fund.
▶ 0:11:36To date, Congress has transferred two billion from the general fund to the Highway Trust Fund, including billion in infrastructure and investment uh and jobs act.
▶ 0:11:58This infusion of funds enabled critical investments in roadway, bridge and freight uh, roadway safety upgrades and transit expansions. Without the general fund transfer, these and many other priorities would have been sidelined.
▶ 0:12:28Supplementing the highway trust fund revenue with general fund uh transfers has been necessary because congress has not raised the gas tax in over 30 years which has eroded its purchasing power.
▶ 0:12:48The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act supported several pilot projects to study other funding options such as road a road users charge that would levy a fee on miles driven rather than gallons of fuel Congress should consider the full menu of options to ensure the solveny of the
▶ 0:13:19uh trust fund including a national road user charge. Whatever Congress decides, the the solution must meet several criteria.
▶ 0:13:34First, we need to provide a sustainable revenue source for highway trust fund for the highway trust fund that allows this committee to continue to enact multi-year surface transportation bills. Second, we must retain and strengthen the mass transit account for the highway fund.
▶ 0:14:04Transit, which is an essential essential part of our transportation system, improves mobility, uh reduces pollution, reduces congestion for drivers, and supports millions of private sector jobs.
▶ 0:14:25Eliminating the mass transit account, a proposal Congress hears periodically, would not make up for the highway trust funds shortfall.
▶ 0:14:38According to Jeff Daises, one of our witnesses, the Highway Trust Fund will face an annual $40 billion gap between revenue and spending by 2027. Uh, transit spending will account for only 17 billion uh dollars or less than half of the shortfall.
▶ 0:15:07Congress must reject any attempts to eliminate the mass transit account, which would hurt people, our economy, and our environment without solving the problem. Third, we need to direct more highway trust fund resources to places that need the most. Local roads uh are what I mean.
▶ 0:15:35According to research by the Brookings Institution, local roads are entitled to a much larger share of f federal resources than they receive and they tend to be much in much worse condition than state roads.
▶ 0:15:57There are several paths that Congress may choose to take that would guaranteed reliable funding, maintain the mass transit account, and direct more resources to local partners. I look forward to today's discussion. Thank I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Graves, for five minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:16:22Thank you, Chairman Rouseer, and I want to thank all of our witnesses for um uh for being here today as we discuss the importance of long-term certainty and stability in the uh in the highway trust fund. The trust fund is facing insolveny crisis dating back to at least 2008 as current user fees are no longer sufficient to sustain necessary investment in our surface transportation needs.
▶ 0:16:45The infrastructure investment act um or JA failed to address the issue and it only made matters worse by increasing spending from the highway trust fund by 102 billion and relying on a bailout uh of the trust fund with 118 billion from the general uh from a general fund transfer. So, let me be clear.
▶ 0:17:05Republicans support investing in infrastructure, but our highway funding system is founded upon the principle that roadway users must pay for their use of the system. And failing to restructure our surface transportation funding sources is going to have severe consequences for our nation transportation system and the American people.
▶ 0:17:26That is why tomorrow, as part of the reconciliation package that we're going to be working on, the committee will take the first steps towards highway trust fund solveny and stability. We will vote on a proposal to leverage existing state vehicle registration systems and address and assess a new fee of $200, as was pointed out, on electric vehicles, $100 on highway or on hybrid vehicles, and $20 fee on most other passenger vehicles.
▶ 0:17:54If successful, this new user fee would represent the first new funding stream into the highway trust fund in more than 30 years. Nearly 40 states already have a special registration fee for EVs. And it's time for the federal government to assess a fee on EVs that for years have not paid any gasoline or diesel taxes, which is obviously the primary source of the highway trust fund revenues at this point.
▶ 0:18:20Most importantly, this proposal continues the user fee principle and ensures EVs no longer get a free ride on highways. While EVs and hybrids will start paying these fees into the system in the near term, the $20 fee will not go into effect until 2031. This delay gives the committee the opportunity to consider restructuring the broken trust fund tax structure with a fair system to ensure solveny for many years to come. And let me close by once again underscoring the significance of this proposal. the trust fund is broken.
▶ 0:18:51Our reconciliation bill will take the first steps towards fixing it by unlocking the path towards permanently um addressing uh the trust fund issue. And this gives our committee a significant head start in our reauthorization process and sets up um sets us up for success. We have to act now to save the trust fund before it's too late. And with that, Chairman Rouseer, I appreciate the opportunity and I yield back.
▶ 0:19:20Uh, ranking member Larson has yielded back. So, we'll now go to introduction of the uh, witnesses. Um, Mr. Kennedy, I understand that you have a witness that you'd like to introduce. That's correct, Mr. You're recognized. Thank you very much, Chairman Razer and Graves, and to the ranking member Madam Norton. I am grateful to introduce Mr. Carlos Brcer, somebody who I've known for 10 years.
▶ 0:19:45Um, and as a state legislator, he's an outstanding resource and and on the federal level, we're going to have a great experience being able to have him here. He brings a wealth a leadership and expertise to today's discussion. He has dedicated 38 years of his service. Even though he looks like he's 20 years old, he's been actually working for Utah State Department of Transportation for 38 years where he served as executive director since 2013.
▶ 0:20:09He's been a national leader in transportation innovation and currently chairs the AASHTO agency administration managing committee and has also been recently appointed to chair to be the chair of the federal system funding alternative advisory board. I had the privilege of working with Mr. Bureris and the state legislature to pass legislation that launched Utah's statewide road usage charge program. Thanks to his leadership, Utah now has one of the first and largest RU programs in the country for alternative fuel vehicles. Mr.
▶ 0:20:37Bersceris has consistently demonstrated innovative leadership helping Utah become a national model for transportation planning and project delivery. I look forward to engaging with him and our other distinguished witnesses during today's hearing. And thank you, Mr. Chair. With that, I yield back. We also have with us Tai Johnson who's testifying on behalf of the National Asphalt Pavement Association and also uh great North Carolinian. Great to have you here. Uh Jeff Davis representing the ENO center.
▶ 0:21:07uh for transportation, Brian Burkhard representing Jacobs, and Udy Toare representing Brookings Metro. We particularly thank uh each of you for being here and look forward to your uh great insights. Uh briefly, I'd like to take a moment and explain our lighting system. It's pretty self-explanatory. There are three lights in front of you. Green means go. Yellow means uh red is soon to come, and red means close it up just as quickly as you can if you haven't already.
▶ 0:21:37I ask unanimous consent that the witness's full statements be included in the record. Without objection, so ordered. I also ask unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing without objection. So ordered.
▶ 0:21:55I also ask unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments and information submitted by members or witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing without objection so ordered. So as your written testimony has been made part of the record, the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to five minutes. Uh with that, Mr. Bureris, uh you are recognized for five minutes. Chair Rouseer, member, ranking member Norton, members of the subcommittee.
▶ 0:22:24Good morning and thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Carlos Parceris. I'm the executive director of the Utah Department of Transportation and I'm a past president of the American Association of State Highway and Transportation officials. I'm honored to share the perspective of state departments of transportation nationwide along with some insights from Utah. Transportation is the backbone of America's quality of life and its economy.
▶ 0:22:48Every school bus route, every emergency response, every product on our store shelves begins with a safe, reliable trip on our roads and bridges. When transportation works, people barely notice it. When it fails, communities and commerce grind to a halt. We must recognize that the system is truly a nationwide network. When transportation is successful in Utah, we contribute to the success of North Carolina.
▶ 0:23:14Likewise, transportation challenges in Utah negatively impact states on the other side of the country. The highway trust fund is vital to building and maintaining a strong, effective transportation network. Let me give you one specific example. Using the bridge formula funds from the IIGJA, Utah identified 90 bridges that were in need of work. 76 of them were owned by rural communities off the state system.
▶ 0:23:39By the end of the current program, every one of those bridges that had been in poor condition will have been repaired or replaced. This results in better safety and mobility for users of the system and lifts the burden from local governments whose budgets are overstretched. The this bridge formula uh program is an example of how formula funding allows states to plan strategically and to effectively deliver the priorities that are most important to our state and local communities.
▶ 0:24:05The important benefits of an effective transportation system now face a critical risk. The highway trust fund is deteriorating. Since 2008, the highway trust fund has spent more than it collects because the primary revenue source, a per gallon fuel tax that is not indexed for inflation, shrinks as vehicles become more efficient, consuming less fuel or no fuel at all, and inflation continues to erode the purchasing power.
▶ 0:24:32Absent congressional action, we will face a shortfall of roughly $20 billion next year. States will be forced to delay projects, contractors will pull back, and costs will rise, undermining the very efficiency that taxpayers expect. To avoid that outcome, we need a long-term reauthorization that does two things. First, it must extend the current IIGA investment levels and at least keep pace with inflation so state DOS can plan and deliver projects with confidence.
▶ 0:25:01Second, it must modernize how we pay for the system because a 21st century network cannot run on a 20th century revenue model. The principles that have served this country for nearly 100 years is a user pay approach. Simply put, those who use the transportation system help pay for it. In Utah, we put that philosophy into practice with the nation's first statewide operational road usage charge program.
▶ 0:25:25We have learned valuable lessons for how to address concerns about fairness, privacy, freedom of choice, and cost to administer. Our experience in Utah demonstrates that is possible to effectively address challenges and concerns associated with a road user charge model, and we believe solutions can be implemented nationwide.
▶ 0:25:44We recognized that a mileagebased user fee is not a silver bullet, but Utah's experience shows that it can be part of a diversified toolbox that also includes inflation index fuel tax while the fleet continues to rely on gasoline and diesel, targeted fees, and yes, general contributions. Members of the subcommittee, transportation is essential for our extraordinary economy and quality of life in America.
▶ 0:26:11States need the certainty and the resources to build a safer, more resilient, and more innovative transportation future. A timely, long-term, fully funded reauthorization will let every state, urban, suburban, and rural, deliver the projects our citizens expect and deserve. On behalf of Utah and my colleagues in all 50 states, thank you for your leadership and for the chance to testify. I look forward to your Mr. Johnson.
▶ 0:26:44Good morning. Full transportation and infrastructure committee chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larson, Highway and Transit Subcommittee Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Norton, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today about the Highway Trust Fund and the vital role it plays in securing the future of our national surface transportation system. My name is Ty Johnson.
▶ 0:27:06I'm proud to serve as president of Fred Smith Company, a Raleigh based heavy highway construction company employing over,200 dedicated men and women throughout North Carolina. Our company builds roads and bridges, manufactures asphalt, and has proudly contributed to the infrastructure that keeps our communities connected for nearly a hundred years. I'm a lifelong North Carolinian born in Durham and educated at NC State University, where I earned a degree in civil engineering.
▶ 0:27:31I've spent my entire 30-year career in the heavy highway industry, serving in many industry, many positions at our company. Today, I'm honored to speak not only for Fred Smith Company, but also on behalf of the 1100 member companies of the National Asphalt Pavement Association, the only national trade association, exclusively representing the asphalt pavement industry for the past 70 years. Our members are in every state and operate in every congressional district.
▶ 0:27:57The asphalt pavements we provide cover over 94% of the entire national roadway market and our industry is ubiquitous with any policies focused on highway funding, expansion, and maintenance. However, we cannot talk about America's infrastructure future without first talking about the solveny of the highway trust fund.
▶ 0:28:17My hope is to provide this committee on the HTF's real world impacts on contractors and material providers like Freshmith Company and others in the asphalt industry who work with state DOS and HTF back projects every day throughout the country. I believe four clear user fee pathways must be considered for Htf solveny. And while Napa is agnostic on any one option we must pursue, these four would certainly make major financial strides.
▶ 0:28:44One option is to immediately index and raise the gas tax, which hasn't occurred since 1993. Another is to capture all users of the national roadway system within the HTF explicitly EV and any hybrid drivetrains that pay little to no funds into the HTF currently. Additionally, you could implement a national vehicle miles traveled program that would provide an equitable capture of the roads we use and frequency, which can be deployed without privacy concerns and could implement various collection mechanisms.
▶ 0:29:15Lastly, a national fee on gross vehicle weight restrictions would capture any vehicle on our roadways and tear vehicles fee based off its weight and thus its literal impact on our national roadway network. Each of these options has merit and together implemented in some capacity or in tandem offer a pathway to sustainable long-term funding. In North Carolina, we understand the stakes. Our state maintains more roads than nearly any other.
▶ 0:29:41Over 80,000 miles of highway and 13,500 bridges. In 2023 alone, North Carolina received 1.6 6 billion in federal funds from the HTF to support critical projects like the widening of I95 and improvements to I85 and I77 in Charlotte. Every $1 billion in infrastructure investment supports approximately 13,000 American jobs.
▶ 0:30:06At FreshSmith Company and across the entire asphalt industry, we provide good paying careers that support families and communities. But without reliable Htf funding, that workforce we proudly employ and the projects they deliver are risk. Or we're doing what we can to help. The asphalt industry is stretching every federal dollar, given asphalt as America's most recycled material. Every year, over 90 million tons of reclaimed asphalt pavement are reused, saving state DOS more than $3 billion annually.
▶ 0:30:37With the right policies and incentives, we can further expand this cost-saving practice and deliver greater value for every taxpayer dollar without sacrificing payment performance. But it's not just how we support the HTF with new user fees. It's what HTF resources mean for the safety of our employees. As you know, last week was National Work Zone Awareness Week, a sobering reminder that more than 100 road workers lose their lives annually in work zones.
▶ 0:31:03Htf programs like the work zone safety contingency fund support technologies and strategies that keep our workers and the traveling public safe. Members of the committee, the highway trust fund is not just a financial mechanism is the backbone of our nation's surface transportation network. The current user fee system is unsustainable, but the solutions are within reach and the choices are real.
▶ 0:31:25On behalf of Freshmith Company and the members of Napa, we are eager to partner with you in shaping a bold bipartisan reauthorization passion package that financially secures the HTF and positions our country for decades of economic growth and mobility. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I look forward to your questions and to supporting your work in ensuring the financial future of our national surface transportation network. Mr. Davis, you're recognized.
▶ 0:31:53Chairman Rouseer, ranking members Nordon and Larson, and members of the subcommittee. Uh my name is Jeff Davis. I'm a senior fellow at the ENO Center for Transportation, a nonpartisan think tank founded by traffic pioneer William Phelps ENO in 1921 to carry on his work increasing the safety and flow rate of vehicular traffic. We are a 501c3 nonprofit that now studies all modes of transportation up and down the federalist chain of government. Established in 1956, the highway trust fund is part of the user pay user benefit tax principle.
▶ 0:32:23Simply put, the federal budget is kept in two separate books. All spending accounts are kept in one book. All receipt accounts are kept in a separate book. The sum totals of the two books get compared to determine the federal deficit or surplus. A federal trust fund account is a bridge between the two books. A way of linking receipt accounts from specific taxes on certain groups with spending accounts that benefit those groups over a long period of years. It's a phys visibility exercise, not a fiduciary relationship.
▶ 0:32:52Uh simply put, the first 50 years of the highway trust fund worked well. that raised $676 billion in taxes on highway users and spent the same amount plus 7 billion in interest building the interstate system and meeting other road, bridge, and transit needs. Since 2007, however, things have been out of balance. Spending was 28% higher than tax receipts, necessitating $275 billion in bailout transfers, almost all from the general fund. This happened for three reasons.
▶ 0:33:19A slowdown in the rate at which total driving increased year-toear. a slow increase in automotive fuel efficiency and a political system that keeps increasing trust fund spending each year without regards to revenue levels. The problem on the spending side has been more acute lately since the enactment of the bipartisan infrastructure law. Uh trust fund tax receipts in 2024 were almost $1 billion less than three years prior while trust fund spending increased by $17 billion over that same period.
▶ 0:33:49In the future, uh things get worse as chart one from my testimony will show. Um this shows the the columns, the vertical columns are tax revenues for the trust fund and then the green ones on top are the general fund bailouts in the year they get spent and then the red line is spending.
▶ 0:34:08uh you can see that CBO projections at the current rates and spending levels the trust fund will run out of money again in mid 2028 and after that the immediate revenue gap be around 40 billion a year rising to 50 billion a year by 2035 or 340 billion over that period cumulative put another way only 60 cents out of every dollar paid out of the trust fund last year came from highway user taxes the rest cames from some other kind of general fund subsidy or transfer in about 2030 30 or
▶ 0:34:382031, we fall below the 50% mark. 50 cents on the dollar. And by 2035, CBO says trust fund taxes will only support 43 cents out of every dollar of outlays. Now, make no mistake, the trust fund didn't go broke because of electric vehicles. But the rate of EV adoption controls the rate at which motor fuel tax receipts will continue to decline in the future. If Congress decides they want to continue the user pay system, and they should consider that question, revenues and spending need to be aligned.
▶ 0:35:07At present, three of the five highway trust fund excise taxes tax the extent of highway system use. Gasoline, diesel, and heavy truck tires are all proxies for road mileage. The other two taxes on trucks don't measure the extent of road use, the 12% sales tax and the heavy vehicle use tax annually. They're more system access charges. So, in terms of taxes that measure road usage, so far there's not doesn't appear to be the willingness in the political system to increase motor fuel taxes.
▶ 0:35:35And while Congress has encouraged research into a national mileage fee, the implementation costs and complexity of such a fee probably mean that it wouldn't be practical to get it done in time for the next reauthorization bill. That leaves taxing road access, the potential for road use instead of the accident of actual road use. Uh the committee apparently released this morning a national vehicle registration fee proposal it'll consider tomorrow focused on first electric vehicles and hybrids and eventually expanding to all motor vehicles.
▶ 0:36:03Although those such fees do not fully measure system use, they are as consistent with the user pay system as either of the two current truck taxes are. But again, remember how big the problem is. We're only 60% self-sufficient right now, dropping below 50% in 2030 or 31. In terms of dollars, just remember one figure, 42 to 43 billion a year in revenue at most forever versus 80ome billion dollars in receipts by the time the IA in spending by the time the IA is done.
▶ 0:36:33You've either got to bring the 41 or 42 billion line up or the $80 billion line down or some combination. And that means that you got to double revenues or else cut spending by the end of this bill. My back of the envelope calculations say that the uh uh EV fee, while it is significant, wouldn't come close to actually closing the amount of revenue that you need to get another 5-year bill. Um, this concludes my testimony. I'd be happy to answer any questions. Mr. Burkart.
▶ 0:37:02Good morning, Chairman Graves and Rouser, ranking members Larsson, Holmes, Norton, and members of the subcommittee on highway and transit. My name is Brian Burkard. I am vice president and global principal for advanced mobility systems at Jacobs. I appreciate this opportunity to testify today as you examine the need for a longterm solution for the highway trust fund.
▶ 0:37:23We like to say at Jacobs that we're challenging today to reinvent tomorrow by solving the world's most critical problems and helping communities solve their infrastructure challenges has never been more complex. As one of America's leading consulting and advisory firms, Jacobs delivers infrastructure projects that enhance mobility and efficiency across all modes of transportation. And much of this work is supported by the highway trust fund. Nearly every project I've worked on in my career has been made possible by the highway trust fund.
▶ 0:37:54These are projects that keep our transportation systems reliable, safe, and resilient. Moreover, because of these of the improvements in efficiencies they realize for goods movement and mobility, they drive the e the American economy forward. The highway trust fund represents a founding principle that has formed the basis of the federal transportation policy for over half a century, the user pays user benefits principle.
▶ 0:38:21But the highway trust fund continues to be in trouble and our current path is uncertain unless we address the the fund's long-term structural issues. Fortunately, there are several alternatives to relying on a fuel tax to fund our transportation needs. These include an EV fee and a mileage based user fee or road user charge. First, an EV fee could be a short-term stop gap measure to reduce the fuel tax deficit caused by EVs.
▶ 0:38:51Nearly 40 states have adopted EV fees, usually in the form of an annual fee paid during vehicle registration. Some states have implemented additional fees based on vehicle weight or have instituted fees on public EV charging stations. However, EV fees should not be viewed as a panacea to the funds problem. rather they should be considered in parallel with a longerterm fix to the gas tax.
▶ 0:39:17Additionally, these one-time or annual payments are not precise assessments on transportation usage and they do not align with the continued impact that a vehicle imposes on the system. As stated in the National Surface Transportation Infrastructure Financing Commission's report in 2009 required by Safetyloo, the most viable approach to efficiently fund investment in surface transportation in medium and long run will be a user charge system based more directly on
▶ 0:39:47miles driven rather than indirectly on fuel consumed. Congress has helped states and interstate organizations test the feasibility of mileagebased user fees. But now national leadership is is critical and the US DOT should move forward on the national pilot as defined and required by the IIGJA.
▶ 0:40:08Full federal implementation of a mileagebased user fee pilot program must be accompanied by a robust education campaign to ensure drivers understand how the program works. the positive impact on rural communities and the opportunities for privacy protections. Moving to a true transportation usagebased system is imperative in the long run.
▶ 0:40:32Lastly, the role of private financing and P3s has grown in interest in helping to close the gap between limited public funding in our growing needs. P3s have been used for centuries across the world and are becoming more prominent in the US thanks to federal financing programs such as the taxexempt private act activity bonds and lowinterest rate tifia loans.
▶ 0:40:56P3s can accelerate project delivery and encourage cost-saving innovation, but they're not suitable for all project types, particularly those without sustainable funding sources. Encouraging private sector participation, ideiation, and efficiency is good for infrastructure, and we urge this committee to make these financing programs more accessible so states and localities can accelerate project This committee knows all too well that our infrastructure funding gap has continued to grow and we encourage continued
▶ 0:41:26collaboration to ensure that the federal pro government remains a committed partner in funding our infrastructure. Ensuring the solveny of the highway trust fund while adhering to the user pays principle is essential for continued economic growth and is needed to improve the safety of our nation's transportation systems. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I look forward to your questions. Mr.
▶ 0:41:53To Mayor, Chairman Rouser, Ranking Member Norton, and members of the Subcommittee on Highways and Transit, uh, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. My name is Adid Toare. I'm a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution here in Washington DC. I want to start by noting that my remarks today, plus my written testimony, strictly represent my personal views and do not in any way reflect the views of the Brookings Institution. its other scholars, employees, officers, or trustees. This hearing comes at an opportune time.
▶ 0:42:22The Highway Trust Fund is one of the most powerful fiscal instruments in your investment toolbox. Its unique design allows lawmakers to approach investment through multi-year cycles. The same approach used by the state and local owners of our surface transportation network. The trust fund delivers not just funds, but certainty. And the net effect has been a transformation in how people and goods move across America. said plainly, "The trust fund itself is a national asset." Still, the trust fund is just a tool.
▶ 0:42:53It doesn't differentiate between where gasoline and diesel were consumed. The trust fund isn't codified to advance any specific economic competitiveness goals you may have. It's only there to support the execution on your congressionally program priorities. This next reauthorization presents another opportunity to adopt investment policies that will promote economic competitiveness for generations to come.
▶ 0:43:16The highway trust fund will continue to be a powerful tool to achieve that overarching objective, especially if it's coupled with targeted improvements to what it funds and how it distributes that funding. I have three highle recommendations to that end. First, it's vital to keep investing more in the network. We've spent generations building out all our roads and rails, and the roadways alone are now worth over $5 trillion.
▶ 0:43:40According to the BEA, all those facilities interweave to move over 1 billion person trips and over 55 million tons of freight every day. It's in our best interest to keep maintaining and modernizing that network. Yet, Congress is actually falling short of its past commitments. Even with the IIGJA money now courarssing through the system, the share of GDP the Congress spends on highways and transit is below the average from 1991 to 2023.
▶ 0:44:10And it'd look even worse if we went back to 199 1956. Not only is spending falling behind, but significant inflation within the construction industry means we've lost purchasing power, too. This is a missed opportunity. Per CBO's own research, when federal grants increase, state and local governments actually spend more on surface transportation infrastructure, too. Second, it's critical to rethink where and in what the federal government invests.
▶ 0:44:39Multiple sections in chapters 23 and 49 of the US code have enshrined national goals for the country's surface transportation network, including promoting system reliability, improving safety, supporting regional economic development, and reducing project delays. Multiple of those areas deserve extra attention, including our persistently bad safety record, and how federal compliance impacts project delivery timelines. But I want to call particular focus today to our local roadway network.
▶ 0:45:09Per our recent research at Brookings, 49% of locallyowned principal arterials, again these are main roadways, are in poor condition compared to 7% of mileage on similar state-owned roads. One of the likely causes is fiscal extraction. Even though locally owned roads carry 34% of all VMT in the country, a relative proxy for many of the trust funds revenues, current rules aortion all of their gas tax receipts to states.
▶ 0:45:40This annual subsidy is hurting system reliability and limiting economic development, but more direct regional funding could address it. Finally, the Congress should use spending targets and programmatic reforms to inform your consideration of new revenues. The United States is incredibly fortunate to have the fiscal impa capacity to invest at the scale we need and to have access to a range of instruments to reach our spending targets.
▶ 0:46:07Just as importantly, the menu of policy responses is wellestablished and thoroughly researched. Vehicle registration fees, road user charges, and private financing instruments are all viable options alongside established alternatives such as increasing gas taxes or transferring general fund revenues. The challenge is building consensus and selecting fiscal instruments that match your goals.
▶ 0:46:28I recommend Congress set up a bipartisan working group to pull your published knowledge and then use that working group to address thorny questions like tax incidents, compliance costs, and spending timelines. To conclude, the trust fund is well suited to channel investment dollars. Yet, it would be a wasted opportunity if Congress did not couple considerations of new revenue with efforts to rethink how the country measures need, who controls the funding, and the process by which funding recipients comply with federal renewals. Thank you again for the opportunity.
▶ 0:46:59Well, thank each of you uh very much. Um we'll now turn to questions from the panel. I'll recognize myself for five minutes uh for questions. I'll start with Mr. Johnson. uh you it was great to uh be with you back home in North Carolina when we went and toured the project you're working on there on I95. And by the way, I think I we've been working on I95 since I was born. But uh but any event, talk talk to us a little bit about uh the importance of uh trust fund solveny in terms of timelines and and uh sustainability.
▶ 0:47:30uh just the um uh the importance of uh keeping projects on Uh thank you Congressman Rouser um for that question also for uh your time and coming to visit with us and to our plant and uh see our pavement operations zone 95. It was a it was a privilege to be able to do that.
▶ 0:47:51Um, so my two biggest concerns as president of Fred Smith Company are the safety of our employees and to make sure that we have enough work for all of our employees. The highway trust fund in North Carolina provides about 25% of the funds needed to fund the DOT road program.
▶ 0:48:11So that 25% is very critical to our company and to our The highway industry in North Carolina is is sized, the number of employees we have and the equipment and resources we have is sized to maintain a certain dollar amount spent for the highway program. And if there were if that if the funds were to be reduced and the amount of money coming in and available were to be reduced, that would severely impact our industry.
▶ 0:48:39that would mean that we could potentially have layoffs and reduction in workforce. Um, which would be devastating to our company and communities. Also, knowing that that money is there and it's consistent and it's sufficient and we know it's coming um allows us to invest in our company and invest in our communities.
▶ 0:49:01Whether that be uh buying installing putting up new asphalt plants or buying more equipment or expanding our offices, hiring more employees, be willing to train our employees um knowing that that the money is available and it's coming and it's dedicated is critical for us to make those decisions. The work we do is extremely expensive.
▶ 0:49:23the equipment and the materials that we buy uh costs a lot of money and with with any uncertainty if that work will be there to put that equipment and those people to work it makes us question whether we want to grow and expand in our communities.
▶ 0:49:40Um so in addition to those the you know effects if we do have a slowdown and there is and the workforce shrinks then when the work does come around if there is more work that comes later then it's going to cost more it's going to take longer um because the workforce is going to be smaller um just just supply and demand. If there's more work and we have fewer people, then it's going it's going to cost more and the project's going to delayed.
▶ 0:50:09And that's just talking about our company. Um, when you're looking at what it means to our communities and the traveling public without having that funding to be able to keep up with the demands in our state, whether it be people who live in our state or people who trans just transit through our state, um, it really impacts the mobility, the ride quality. We can't maintain roads.
▶ 0:50:31So, just the the having the highway trust fund um solvent, knowing that it um is there and our DOT can plan out the work and know that the money the funds will be available when the time comes to build it that we can count on those jobs being there and the opportunities are there. This means so much for our planning of our resources and our labor force.
▶ 0:50:55um that with that when there's doubt with our state or with our employee or with our company, it just makes it challenging to um to grow and to invest. So it um just the renewal of the highway trust fund is is critical to our employees and our communities. Thank you very much. You covered it well. Uh Mr. Paceras, let me ask you uh Utah is a growing state. North Carolina is a growing state.
▶ 0:51:20uh how how have you uh traversed the uh pitfalls, all the pros and cons of uh of of addressing uh your issues there? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, growth is so exciting, but it's also one of the biggest concerns our citizens have, the rate of growth, and Utah's a little we like to say we're unique, and some people might roll roll your eyes at that, but we are um a very urban state.
▶ 0:51:46Believe it or not, we're the seventh most urbanized state in the country because 65% of the land in Utah is owned by the federal government. So, we have amazingly beautiful places to go recreate in, but our growth is all concentrated on what basically what we call the Wasatch Front. And what we're seeing in with that explosive growth is a concern both from, you know, the quality of life that everybody's experiencing and congestion has been one of their rising concerns.
▶ 0:52:12So the ability to plan and get projects ready to go is really critical and that's I think what you know Mr. Johnson was talking about. We all states have a five-year plan of projects because it takes a long time to deliver those projects. We know for every section of road we have a plan for every section of road of pavement in our state, every bridge in the state.
▶ 0:52:34And if we can deliver those projects when it's needed most, we we follow the deterioration curve of a pavement and we say, you know what, we can make an investment, a lowerc cost investment at the right time and we can stretch out the life of that roadway. So if we I need to shut you down there. I don't want to go too far over time since I'm chairman and have to keep everybody else in line. But uh anyhow, thank you. We'll you can weave that your answer into some other questions when you have a little more time later, Miss Norton.
▶ 0:53:06Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, uh, Mr. uh, under your leadership, the Utah Department of Transportation is working to increase ridership on the frontr runner commuter rail line.
▶ 0:53:26This transit project will help meet the demands of rapid population growth in Utah by providing an alternative to driving along a crucial corridor. To do so, the Front Runner project will need more than 1 billion dollars in federal capital investment grant funding.
▶ 0:53:50Should Congress consider bringing the CIG program into the highway trust fund to further the program's reliability across surface transportation bills. Thank you, Ranking Member Norton, for that question. Um, like like we mentioned earlier, the state of Utah is growing really fast and we feel like we have a three-legged stool to address our mobility needs.
▶ 0:54:18One is we're still continuing to add capacity to the roadways. We need to increase our transit usage and I appreciate you mentioning the frontr runner project. It's one of the most important projects we're working on with our partners at Utah Transit Authority as well as our partners at the NPOS's. Um we're trying to take right um the service right now. We can peak hour service. It's every 30 minutes and we're trying to get to 15minute peak hour service.
▶ 0:54:43And so that's why, you know, we feel very positive about our ability to compete in the um capital improvement um grant program to be able to fully fund the frontr runner project, which we think is a critical project for the 2034 Olympics that we have coming up. In direct response to your question, ma'am, I think it's you're going to have to look at if you move it into the highway trust fund, something's going to have to give.
▶ 0:55:08And you know, right now I think we can demonstrate across this country there is more demand. There's more needs in the highway trust fund than we can even fund right now. So we're we're comfortable competing with where the CIG program is currently today. And um we think we're going to be able to deliver well we know we're going to deliver that project prior to 2030. Uh m Mr.
▶ 0:55:36Uh, public transit benefits everyone by reducing air pollution, easing congestion for drivers, connecting people to essential services, and providing good paying jobs. However, Congress routinely hears calls to save money by eliminating the mass transit account from the highway trust fund.
▶ 0:56:01Why would this fail to solve the highway trust funds solveny problem and how would it harm transit? Uh thank you ma'am. Um traditionally there was a traditional rural bias in the highway program from day one back in 1916. Uh urban highways used to be illegal under the under federal law until like 1944.
▶ 0:56:25or they could use federal money and uh the rural bias of the program still exists to some extent because you got to have roads through a long stretch of nowhere to connect big cities A big city B. Um the highway guys resented I believe mass transit let him into the system originally because the program as it was in the 70s and 80s was much more about the 10 or so big legacy cities that had existing rail systems. Since then, uh, under Senator Shelby in particular, the transit system has branched out a lot.
▶ 0:56:54A lot more emphasis on transit in midsize and smaller cities, rural bus service, things like that. Trying to to to uh deliver more specific usability uh to rural areas, but there would the the fact that political parties have gotten polarized and population density is now as good a metric as you can find for political polarization hasn't really helped things.
▶ 0:57:16But regardless of why people may have been opposed to mass transit out of the trust loan in the first place, the fact is that outlays have grown so great now that it it it's that uh it wouldn't fix things. uh on page nine of my testimony, I did a hypothetical where that if you threw mass transit and motor carrier safety and highway safety out of the trust fund and then went through just just highways and got rid of all the congestion relief, Green New Deal stuff, uh alternatives, any bypass, anything, you're still $9.5 billion short uh in 2026
▶ 0:57:46of having the Federal Highway Administration by itself sufficient on the entire existing system of taxes. So, uh, the days of when throwing the non-traditional, noncore highway programs out would have balanced things are have long since passed us by. My time has expired, Mr. Crawford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate you conducting this hearing today. Thank you to the witnesses here as well.
▶ 0:58:14And as we all know, electric vehicles are notoriously heavy by comparison um to their combustion engine vehicle counterparts. Um we've seen over the last several years, production of EVs is continually rising, resulting in more on the road. So more on the road means more wear and tear on our infrastructure.
▶ 0:58:34And I'm all for vehicle choice and I wouldn't tell someone what car they can or can't purchase, but I have some concerns about um the fact that currently there's no model for EV owners to pay into the trust fund that actually pays for the wear and tear imparted on those roads. Um and I think we just can't sustain that level of fatigue. It's unfair to the rest of the drivers who continue to pay into that system.
▶ 0:59:00So I wondered if if you could speak on on how having EV owners pay their share into the highway trust fund can address that discrepancy. Mr. Brceris, we can start with you if you want to weigh in. Yes. So going back to 2003 2004, the Utah legislature was asking the same question and that's when the legislature made a decision that we wanted to proceed forward with finding a way to implement a road usage charge and it was about the principle of fairness. And so we've been doing pilots over the years.
▶ 0:59:30In 2020, we did launch our road usage charge program. And the way this was done was the legislature imposed a $140 a year fee, registr registration fee, we'll call it, on electric vehicles. And if they chose to participate in the road usage charge program, so choice, then they could wave that fee and they would um be charged on the actual miles that they drove.
▶ 0:59:55The marketing slogan we used at the time because we were worried if people would participate was if you drive less, you pay less. And we capped it at the $140, that maximum fee. I got to tell you, that's a real bargain. $140 um on the front end versus what they would pay, what what gas burners are paying, diesel burners are paying. That seems like everybody' be jumping out there and saying, "Yeah, sign me up." Yeah, it's it was if I may, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:00:20It It's about we figure about $100 less than what a gasoline operator would pay for that same usage. Wow. Well, I would I don't know how you arrived at that number necessarily, but it seems like a heck of a bargain for EV users to be able to pay at that low rate on the front end. But that's something that that we can we can discuss. I I guess another concern that I have is Mr. Mr.
▶ 1:00:44Ber, you stated in your testimony the privacy component to implementing a user pay system and how important it is for ensuring privacy safeguards. Um, you know, we all talk about that privacy, but guess what? We're all carrying these around. These are the transponders that mark everybody in the room at any given time. And so, we're having the conversation about, well, I want to safeguard my privacy. And yet, we're walking around having that conversation while we've got one of these or two in our pockets at any given time. So, how do we balance that?
▶ 1:01:13you know, I I I fully get I serve on the intel committee. I get the risk associated with that, sharing data of various entities. Um and and I'm how do we how do we bridge that gap? Number one. Number two, if we're talking about vehicle miles traveled, how do we do it in a way that is conscious of the fact that it could create a cash flow problem? Because right now, we pay as we go. User pays, yes, but the current model, we pay as we go. So, we don't really feel it.
▶ 1:01:41But if we're paying that vehicle miles traveled after the fact as we go into res uh uh register our vehicles now we're talking about for working folks, you're going from maybe $65 in some states to register your vehicle to maybe $1,600 because now you're paying for the for the miles in a rears. How are we going to address that? Well, one of the you know, one of the things that we're doing with the if you opt into our road usage charge program, we can do it by monthly payments.
▶ 1:02:09And to touch on privacy real quick, there is a different standard between the way the public looks at privacy with a private company, my phone company, versus the way people think of government. You would think we would trust our government more, but that's not the case. So, we think it's really important to always lead with privacy, talk about your principles, and talk about how you're going to protect it, how important that is. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm I' I've got a lot of other topics I would like to address, but I've only got 30 seconds.
▶ 1:02:39So, I'm going to give you that 30 seconds back. I thank the gentleman uh Mr. Johnson, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, uh for and also ranking member Norton for convening this hearing and thank you to the witnesses for your testimony. Every day, Americans are stuck in traffic, stranded by failing transit, and forced to risk their safety on crumbling roads and bridges. When local roads are ignored, it's not the powerful who feel it first.
▶ 1:03:09It's the working class, the people who can't afford a second car or a detour who feel it first. We were promised an administration that would put people first. And instead, the American people received cuts to funding, chaos, and complete disregard for the rule of law. That neglect continues to leave bridges collapsing, buses breaking down, and opportunities out of reach. But it didn't just start uh a 100 days ago.
▶ 1:03:39Um you know, the Grover uh Grover Norquest no new tax pledge or called the taxpayer protection pledge has been in force since 1986. And since 1990, the majority, the overwhelming majority of Republicans in Congress, most of whom have signed on to that uh uh taxpayer protection pledge, have refused to vote for a tax increase.
▶ 1:04:09So in 1993 when the tax uh when the highway uh trust fund increased uh to 18 cents a gallon for the gas tax, most Republicans voted against it and they have continued to vote against it each and every time there's been an opportunity to increase it. And so that 18 cents per gallon was not indexed to inflation.
▶ 1:04:35And so the money is being eaten up and that's what's causing our uh roads and bridges to to crumble. And uh so now we have a proposal to uh produce some revenue into the highway trust fund by charging EV owners a uh $200 a month assessment, which uh I'm not disagreeing with that.
▶ 1:05:03I think the EV owners should pay into the system. Um, but I wonder whether or not Grover Norquest is going to uh say that that's a tax increase. And if he does, the same way he has said that increasing the highway trust fund is a tax increase and he's opposed to it, my friends on the other side of the aisle will be opposed to it also. And then we will continue while cutting taxes for the uh top 1% in this country.
▶ 1:05:33We'll continue to see our roads and bridges crumbling because we're failing to invest. We know what smart investment looks like. It means giving communities the certainty to plan not just for the next election, but for the next generation. It means ensuring local governments aren't left to uh fight for scraps and that cleaner, smarter transportation is part of the solution, not an afterthought.
▶ 1:06:00The future of our transportation system and the strength of our economy depend on it. Mr. Tor the Department of Transportation recently sent a letter to grant recipients warning that it could pull federal funding from cities and states that don't align with its interpretation of enforcement and or anti-discrimination laws.
▶ 1:06:22In practice, that means that if a community limits cooperation with ICE or if DoD deems a local policy, DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion, discriminatory, it could lose access to critical infrastructure funding for roads, bridges, and transit systems. This raises serious concerns. Mr. Toma, how effective is it to tie transportation funding to these kinds of legal and political debates?
▶ 1:06:54Uh, I appreciate the the question, Representative. Um, I I can't speak to the polit politicization of of some of this, and I'm certainly not an immigration lawyer. Um, what I can speak to in an apolitical way is that delivering on projects and as I mentioned in my opening statement, the certainty that the highway trust fund uh promotes um is good for economic development for communities of all kinds. Yeah.
▶ 1:07:17But my question has to do with these extraneous requirements having nothing to do with transportation impinging and preventing uh transportation projects from being It's wrong, isn't it? I I can't speak to to what the um uh Well, let me ask Mr. Burkheart, what do you have to say about it, sir? Excuse me for interrupting, Mr. Torma. I'm running out of time. Real quick, Mr. Perkard.
▶ 1:07:50you know, uh, transportation programs are funded by the highway trust fund and our bipartisan, uh, programs, and Congress's continued support for them showcases how, uh, invaluable they are on improving our transportation. Okay. So, everybody's afraid to cross Donald Trump. I I get it. But thank you all for your appearance today, and I I yield back, Mr. Webster. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:08:18chairman for having this meeting and uh certainly a timely subject, probably the most important one So, Mr. Johnson, you talked about some of the the proposals that are out there. How u how would you approach the various funding proposals that we've had before us regarding the highway trust fund Could you repeat the question again?
▶ 1:08:49Well, I'll try to I might have forgot what it was. The uh so we have a a lot of proposals out there regarding the funding of uh the transportation and uh and the future of it. So, how would you uh approach the solveny of the transportation fund? How would you do that? Well, thank you for that question.
▶ 1:09:17Um the asphalt industry supports anything that allows the HTF to regain its retain its financial stability. We are um we're agnostic to what particular method it is.
▶ 1:09:29Um the four that I laid out um earlier that we've mentioned are um raising a gas tax, um fees for EV fees, uh vehicle miles traveled, um or the tiered weight um weight fees, all any four of those we would be acceptable So you're not wed to any particular proposal then, right?
▶ 1:10:00No sir. Anything that adds funds to our to so that we can perform more of the work that we do for our communities is we're we're for it. Right. So, um Mr.
▶ 1:10:14Brookard, how would you um uh kind of approach a if we had an infrastructure bank, which we don't have, but if we did, a federal infrastructure bank, it leverages only private money, no no tax dollars in it, um could you see that enhancing the funding of uh of the of the infrastructure of this country? Yes.
▶ 1:10:43Um, I believe, you know, an infrastructure bank could be used to supplement a lot of the current funding tools. And as Mr. Johnson alluded to, there's many methods to um that collectively can help fund our transportation improvements and and we see that uh infrastructure bank um is good option and it also could signal the federal government's uh openness and commitment to working with um the private sector and would um also
▶ 1:11:13provide a a clearing house uh that could attract um eligible um other private private financing. So, we see the infrastructure bag as one of many potential solutions to address the funding challenges. Thank you so much. You're back, Miss Brownley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 1:11:40Chairman, I've been a member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee since 2015. And in the over 10 years that I've served on this committee, we have had several hearings about the need for long-term funding solutions for the highway trust fund. In those 10 years, we've passed two prior surface transportation author authorization bills, the 2015 fast act and the 2021 IIJA.
▶ 1:12:08And in both of these bills, we were forced to rely on general revenue transfers to shore up the highway trust fund. But it's not just the last two surface transportation reauthorizations that relied on this mechanism. As we've heard in testimony today and many times before, Congress has not raised the gas tax since 1993, which is the primary source of revenue for the highway trust fund.
▶ 1:12:33and the revenues coming into the trust fund have not kept paced with outlays since 20 uh 2001. But here we are again having the same conversation about the problem while the House Ways and Means Committee which has jurisdiction over the revenues has been unable to come up with a solution. So I really wish we were having a joint hearing with Ways and Means. It might be more productive.
▶ 1:13:01Another alternative that I think we should consider is a change to the House rules to give the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee jurisdiction over the revenue piece of the highway trust fund. Maybe then we could really make some headway on a long-term solution.
▶ 1:13:17Until we find one, it seems we may be doomed to repeat the same hearing every couple of years, like the movie Groundhog Day, where nothing ever changes until we flip the script and make radical positive changes. Yesterday, I went on the House Ways and Means website and searched for the words highway trust fund to find the date of their last hearing on this subject.
▶ 1:13:43Would you be surprised to know that the search the search returned not a single result? Does anyone know when the last time was does anyone know when the last time was that the House Ways and Means Committee had a hearing focused specifically on highway trust fund asking any of you um to test who are testifying? Uh there there was there was one around 2004 I think.
▶ 1:14:13And what did they Um they wound up not uh not recommending any significant uh rate increases. Although there was there was some weird stuff with the way that ethanol was taxed. They they they found things around the end the around the edges and found some extra dollars for the for the trust fund. much of which wound back up in uh uh Bill Thomas's district. It's your marks. Well, thank you.
▶ 1:14:37I I don't think that I I I I don't I think my opinion uh you know, my argument here still stands pretty firm. Um but I will move on. So, Mr. bracharis. Um anyway, I I appreciate your your testimony uh noting the importance of the Olympics and understanding both your state and my state. I'm from California.
▶ 1:15:04Um are both um a great great Olympics. But my question to you is um have you had any discussions with the city of Los Angeles um state of California um with regards to um awareness that the federal government needs to pitch in here.
▶ 1:15:27understanding that um I think both in Salt Lake City ahead of the 2002 Olympic Games and to Atlanta ahead of the 1996 games, uh the federal government certainly provided resources to ensure that we had um uh success with the Olympic Games. So, have you had any further conversations with Los Angeles with regards to upping the awareness around this issue? Yes. Yes, ma'am. We have.
▶ 1:15:55We've we all talk together as transportation geeks and uh so we we talk and leverage what we learned in 2002. We've shared that with Los Angeles and with the transit districts there as well and we're going to certainly have some folks on the ground there during the games to uh to learn as well. So we we go back and forth. It's a good So are you getting any positive feedback from the federal government with regards to um additional funding to support the games?
▶ 1:16:22I know my delegation, the Utah delegation, is very interested in helping Utah prepare for the 2034 games. And when we think about preparing it, we don't want to we don't want to build projects just for the games. We look at the games as an operational event. So, we're going to look to the federal government for support on things like security. We're going to have to bring in a lot more transit vehicles, buses mostly. And so, we look for that that support from the federal government.
▶ 1:16:50We received it prior to 2002 and we expect to be successful going forward. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Babin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate the hearing today and I'm honored to be seated here on this esteemed committee for another important round of surface transportation reauthorization.
▶ 1:17:10Also glad that we're discussing the highway trust fund, the continued solveny of which is absolutely critical to the long-standing health of our nation's roads and highways and bridges going into the future. But and my friends on the committee who have been here a while know this. I'm very concerned that my home state of Texas is continuing to pay more than their fair share, more than they get out of it. Texans receive a poultry 84% rate of return on tax on highway trust fund programs.
▶ 1:17:41Meaning that for every dollar the state puts in, they only get 84 cents back. Mr. Chairman, I look forward to working with you and my other colleagues on this committee uh on the DAS uh to try to correct this issue. Well, that said, I'll move into my questions. Mr. Birkhard. Uh you note in your testimony that rural residents in states like Georgia and Maryland would end up paying less under a mileagebased user fee as compared to the current gas tax.
▶ 1:18:10Could you explain why a mileagebased fee works better for rural Yes, thank you for your question, Mr. Chairman. Um uh many uh folks in the rural communities have vehicles that um have lower gas mileage. um lower than in some cases 20 miles per gallon.
▶ 1:18:31And so um they pay uh quite a bit more in comparison to more efficient vehicles um which uh tend to be uh people that are living in suburban or urban communities. And so that that's where the the cost differential happens.
▶ 1:18:46And um interestingly, this is uh part of what we're finding in working with states on their mileagebased user fee pilots is that education is essential to um to these programs to ensure that uh people understand uh the result of that of the mileage based user fee. Thank you.
▶ 1:19:06And and uh just to follow up, how can Congress act to make sure that a mileagebased fee does not overburden our trucking industry who collectively log thousands of miles driven? Mr. Burkhart, can you repeat the question, please? How can Congress act to make sure that a mileagebased fee does not overburden our trucking industry who drives thousands of miles? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
▶ 1:19:34a tiered program uh that would address uh the weight of vehicles is uh what the mileage based user fee pilots are looking at. And so making sure that that fair share is uh attributed as uh the vehicles put wear on on on their transportation system. That's uh how we would uh feel that should be approached. Okay. Thank you. And Mr. for Saras. I'm also concerned with the red tape surrounding the deployment of projects in our rural areas.
▶ 1:20:04Do you see any opportunities to streamline federal requirements tied to highway trust fund dollars that would help rural state uh department of departments of transportation to deliver projects more efficiently and cost effectively? Thank you for the question. Absolutely. There's always opportunities to improve and streamline the way we deliver our projects. We work closely with our local governments and we actually provide the technical expertise to help our governments deliver those projects.
▶ 1:20:34Now other examples that we utilize is where a local government may want to do their project on their own. We we do an exchange for federal dollars. So we'll exchange 85 cents on the dollar and the local communities then can have the uh flexibility to execute their projects the way they want. they feel it's much more effective and they can deliver those projects faster. So that's one tool that we utilize in Utah on an ongoing basis. I got you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back, Mr.
▶ 1:21:04Garcia. Thank you uh Mr. Chairman and ranking member uh and of course all the witnesses here today. It's clear that the highway trust fund uh status quo is no longer viable. The billions of dollars that Congress has transferred from the general fund to the highway trust fund since 2008 tells us as much. All Americans are subsidizing driving whether they actually drive or not. And what have we received in return?
▶ 1:21:35Lots of bad stuff. Traffic and congestion. According to Enrich, a transportation analytics company, the typical US driver lost 43 hours in traffic in 2024. Our communities also suffer from heavy pollution. The American Lung Association estimates that 46% of all Americans are living in places that get failing grades for unhealthy levels of ozone or particulate matter.
▶ 1:22:02People of color and people with lower incomes disproportionately live in areas affected by higher levels of air pollution, leaving them vulnerable to respiratory diseases, heart disease, and adverse birth outcomes. But despite all these facts, worsening traffic, public health risks, and environmental injustice, Congress continues to prioritize highway spending over public transit via the 8020 split. that is 80% for highways and 20% for public transit.
▶ 1:22:33It's a funding paradigm that's outdated and unresponsive to the needs of local communities. I'm a big supporter of increasing funding for public transit and getting on par with highway spending. Mr. Tor, uh, as you point out in your testimony, the US DOT estimates that the reinvestment backlog of transit assets falling below the state of good repair is over 100 billion.
▶ 1:22:59The backlog ranges from transit vehicles like buses and rail cars to systems components like train signals. How would shifting the funding uh split in the highway trust fund towards public transit help transit systems address the reinvestment backlog and improve their service? Yeah, represent Garcia, thank you for the question.
▶ 1:23:24Um the the Congress has been really clear over the past few decades that as we've finished the grand um project that was building out the national interstate system and and bundled under the uh formal national highway system moniker, right, which uh my colleague my colleague Mr. Davis spoke about and and this original fiscal system we set up um was in fact capturing user fees from all users because that national highway system it it didn't exist yet, right? we had to pull this money.
▶ 1:23:54The states were the the the right entity to give it to to build out that network. Now that that network's been built, the Congress, particularly since 1991 with uh Senator Mouahan and other leadership, have been looking for different ways to offer flexibilities both to states to other potential recipients, those who work directly with the states to think about different flexibilities and that's inclusive of transit.
▶ 1:24:16Um what I think you're raising and in both with the um the FTA's own uh conditions uh assessments frankly um uh sister data if you will from the Federal Highway Administration is that we need to think about differently about investments particularly in regions and localities. Um giving them flexibilities to make the investments that work right for them. Um we know even in the state of California right there's only so much real estate left to build and in fact we need to build kind of better in the locations where people already live and think different about how people move around.
▶ 1:24:44So, um it's not just that there's this backlog of investment. I think the Congress has been clear about giving those flexibilities. Um and investing more in transit is clearly one of those areas where the need exists. Uh thank you for that. Uh next, I'd like to briefly discuss a proposal to have EVs pay into the highway trust fund. My Republican colleagues are pursuing a a punitive fee of $200 on EVs as part of reconciliation.
▶ 1:25:08That's despite the fact that the average passenger vehicle paid $82 into the highway trust fund last year. Uh Mr. Davis, uh at what amount would you recommend setting an EV fee that does not tax drivers unfairly based on the kind of vehicle that they choose?
▶ 1:25:28Uh based on the statistics the Federal Highway Administration published a couple of months ago, the 2023 averages, uh the average short wheelbase vehicle under 112 in uh paid about $80 in gasoline taxes, uh and the average long wheelbase with the bigger truck and SUV van paid about 112. So about a $90 a $90 a year average. Um as uh Mr. Crawford mentioned there is a weight differential for EVs, particularly on the heavier end.
▶ 1:25:59You could maybe juice that up to to have EVs pay a bit more, but 200 uh a year seems a little more than the average IC vehicle plus that weight differential Mr. Crawford was talking about. So, it's it's not ridiculously out of out of out of portion, but maybe a little bit more. Thank you. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:26:21Chairman, uh before I yield back, uh I seek through uh unanimous consent submit a letter for the record from the charge coalition detailing how a $200 EV fee is harmful on consumers and fails to address the solveny issues with the highway trust fund. Without objection. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Labalfa. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate it. Um Mr.
▶ 1:26:49Davis, I' I'd like to uh got a couple questions for you. Um on your history with the highway trust fund research, what what are what do you see are the turning points that have led us to this current structural deficit we have? And and well, just just go from there, please.
▶ 1:27:12uh the first turning point was so slow that I didn't notice it really until a couple years ago that uh back in the in the glory days the 50s and 60s VMT the amount driven was increasing by 4 and a half% per year on average and that's higher than inflation. Uh then that started to change in the 80s and then again in the early 2000s. So now it's only increasing by less than a half% a year.
▶ 1:27:35So even if even if you stopped selling EVs tomorrow% a year of increased VMT and so even if you stopped uh selling EVs and and gasoline mileage stayed right where it is that's the most that that uh that gas tax receipts could go up without a rate increase is about a half% per year. And then starting after the OPEC embargo and then Iran the mileage kept getting better and better. So fewer gallons per mile.
▶ 1:28:00And then finally uh the last few bills starting in the 2000 uh five have intentionally uh increased spending greater than anticipated revenue. So we're three separate things. The whole the whole uh fullcourt press that we've heard from government and from different entities is that we want people to drive more efficient vehicles. And so what's the reward in that is that they are using less gas.
▶ 1:28:28But then now government looks at it like well you're not using enough gas, you're not generating enough tax. So what's what's the catch? It made sense as a matter of energy policy after the OPEC and then environmental policy to encourage that. But people didn't realize until it was too late that you had federal energy environmental policy at loggerheads with federal highway finance policy which was based on the number of gallons sold. And uh we didn't no one put it together until it was too late apparently. Yeah. Okay.
▶ 1:28:56And uh we're talking about rural areas a little bit and people might have lower mileage vehicles because they need four-wheel drive or they're doing the types of jobs and such in agriculture or mining or timber or things like that. So, um aren't they still paying at the pump uh a proportionate amount to what they drive? I mean, the worse the mileage is, the more you're going to pay, right? Yes, sir. That is correct. Okay.
▶ 1:29:20so to expand on the uh how the electric vehicles are playing a role these days in lack of revenue. Um well currently EVs don't pay any taxes to the highway trust fund. And yeah a minute ago we heard it called it's a punitive tax to put any kind of tax on it. What do you think about that? Um you can argue the level but the EV should be paying something if you're going to continue the user pay user benefit system.
▶ 1:29:45If you that philosophical decision needs to be made whether to continue user pay user benefit or move on to something else because if you continue user pay that limits the universe of new revenue sources you can find to highway and transit users. But uh if you're going to continue user pay EV should definitely pay something. It just becomes a question of what level and how to collect it. It would seem so. Yeah. So, how much heavier is an EV vehicle compared to u let's say the same size of car that's not EV?
▶ 1:30:15Um, it depends. It's really bad on the the truck and SUV side. Those the Ford F150 Lightnings and those Hummers are several thousand pounds heavier than their equivalents. But on the on the smaller car end, it's not so much. I remember at one point the Chevy Volt or Bolt, whichever it was, had the exact had within 50 lbs same weight and wheelbase as the Corvette. Uh, and if you drive a Corvette the way God meant to drive a Corvette, you're using a lot of gallons of gas, but the bolt could drive follow that behind there at the same speed and pay nothing.
▶ 1:30:44So, that was my old example of of uh why we should why you should pay something. God bless America on that, right? Um, what what do you see? Well, I want there's going to be a lot of talk about this vehicle mileage tax and I I'm greatly concerned about the methods that'll be collected. What What do you see, Mr. Davis is going to be the actual collection and tracking method that's most likely to be used.
▶ 1:31:08I am continue to worry about the administrative costs because right now the gas tax is so easy to collect because it's collected at the refinery or tank farm. 1300 points of collection versus 285 million registered auto vehicles. The I the IRS still hasn't considered how much they're going to have to uh invest in manpower and technology to implement such attacks. And it would not be quick to implement. Exactly.
▶ 1:31:32That's my concern is that you're going to create a whole new bureaucracy to chase people around on their mileage they put on each one of their vehicles versus when you pay at the gas pump, the the system is already there to do it. So, um, why do we want to do that? And then I wonder how intrusive it is to be tracking people's, uh, mileage. Are we going to end up with those, you know, little bing bong things that you drive through the toll gates? Are we going to have GPS on there tracking people where they go and what they do? What do you see on that?
▶ 1:31:59Um, the time is up, but you you can do it that way or you can just do an odometer measure once a year that's not intrusive at all. So, there there there are variety of ways uh to implement a fee. Yeah. All right. Certainly not invading people's privacy on that. So, uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Y Miss Sykes. Thank you uh Mr. Chairman and ranking member for holding this meeting. Uh obviously, this is a lively topic. I'm glad to be a part of it. Uh so, I'm just going to kind of jump right into it.
▶ 1:32:26because we've been talking about the solveny or lack thereof of the uh highway trust fund and we've seen that the expenditures have exceeded the revenue which obviously is a problem and this trend has continued over several decades and for communities uh without state resources to make up for this these loss funds like many of the communities I serve this would be devastating.
▶ 1:32:50Ohio has um certainly received billions of dollars from the highway trust fund and we host millions of travelers uh that come through our state using our very robust uh highway system and our ability and our our the fact that we're centrally located allows for us to welcome all of these visitors but not without additional costs.
▶ 1:33:11So, I've heard a couple of solutions here and over the the months that we've been preparing for this conversation, including increasing uh the gas tax for short, uh adding a new tax to EVs and hybrids and in instating or creating, excuse me, a mileagebased user fee. And I I think I want to focus our conversation back on the people who are going to be impacted about all of those decisions the most, the American public.
▶ 1:33:38Um because between the tariffs on vehicles that changes in a blink of an eye, that might even be changing today, the cost of living that has not been addressed as promised. My constituents just don't have the money to pay more in gas taxes. And the cost of owning a car seems like it's going to not be a reality for many individuals.
▶ 1:34:02between the tariffs, the uncertainty and increasing whatever costs might come about these discussions. So I just want to ask the panel and I'll start to my left. How do you justify increasing this? How do I what would you say to me as I go back to my community and say these are the options on the table after you are currently struggling to pay your bills in order to pay for this highway trust fund in 30 words or less. I believe in you.
▶ 1:34:32You can all do this. Um, first of all, I believe that the transportation is one of those foundational issues that all of our citizens need to have functioning well and that our responsibility in government is to be able to provide that at the lowest cost for our for our citizens. And really by I got a call from the Wall Street Journal. I'm not doing 30 words, sorry. From the Wall Street Journal in 2015 when we passed the gas tax increase.
▶ 1:35:00And they said, "I thought Utah was a conservative state." And I said, "We are. Conservative people take care of what they have. That's a lower cost of ownership. So I would recommend that being able to connect the benefits that they receive from transportation to the costs that they pay is an important component. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Uh thank you. Um, so I just want to say that the the heavy highway paving industry is a very competitive industry.
▶ 1:35:27The money that is spent by the federal government and the state government is goes very far because it is a very competitive industry. We we work hard every day to try to get our cost as low as possible and that cost is passed along to the users.
▶ 1:35:43And we believe in order to maintain those communities and be able to service those communities, the highway trust fund needs to be funded um by the users so that we can continue to provide that service and that connectivity that the communities need. Thank you, Mr. Davis. Um beyond just the the general sentiment that you know there's no such thing as a free lunch and uh we've we haven't been paying for what we use and it's and uh it's time that we did that.
▶ 1:36:16U it's important to emphasize the extent to which the highway trust fund supports both mass transit and roads in very in wherever your district is and uh that it's the the cooperative nature of the highway the the state and local program to get the your constituents where they need to go. And if we let the uh federal side of it atrophy too far, uh it's going to local commuting and and uh local connectivity to the national system will suffer. We only have 30 seconds left. Mr. Bkart. Yes.
▶ 1:36:46Um I would say that um uh ultimately goods movement, improved goods movement and mobility uh will make the local economy thrive. So telling your local business owners that investments in transportation will actually help them and will make their lives better. Mr. Tom mayor, this money gets you to work, gets your kids to daycare, to school.
▶ 1:37:12Um, but what I'd make sure that they're asking back of you is how do we make sure we see these uh these returns back in our community in the way we want to see it. Thank you so much. I just hope as we continue this conversation, we don't forget about the fact that the cost of living is entirely too high in this country and we're considering who is going to have to shoulder this burden as we make decisions moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Mr. Barrett, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and excuse me. I'll get that figured out one of these days.
▶ 1:37:42Uh, thank you all for being here and uh for your uh participation in today's hearing. Uh, Mr. Johnson, I had a question for you. Um, how can we be sure that additional dollars because a lot of the focus of this hearing today is around the injection of more money into the highway trust fund that will ultimately make its way into state governments, local governments or into the system that will result in the paving of roads. That's, you know, the the part that your organization does.
▶ 1:38:10But how can we be sure that investment of more dollars will actually yield more miles of road or more infrastructure, more bridges built, things like that? It's been one of my frustrations coming from state government before uh serving in this role was that we injected more money into our transportation budget, but it always felt like the the rate of inflation around funding of of um highway projects, road building, and everything else far exceeded the rate of inflation in the overall economy.
▶ 1:38:41And we weren't always yielding more miles of paved road, for example. Can you help me understand how we can expect a correlating benefit from more money being spent? Yeah, thank you for that question. Um, as I stated in my just my previous answer there, the our industry is very competitive. Almost every project that we perform uh for the government is a low bid situation.
▶ 1:39:09So we are constantly trying to trying new methods, new innovative techniques, work harder to get our costs lower so that we can provide the the roadway at the lowest possible price. And we're continue to innovate through recycled asphalt pavement or new innovative designs um in order to try to keep that as low as possible so those dollars go as far as possible. Sure.
▶ 1:39:31And I um I know that there's you know a bid process and everything else, but we're dealing with you know sourcing of aggregate and you know some of the other scarcity of materials and and workforce issues. We have I think 7 million men in America that are on the sidelines not working and not seeking work right now. I think we've got a whole bunch of issues combined that are contributing to this that that could be addressed.
▶ 1:39:55Um, and I'm not suggesting that we don't need more money into the into the system, but I also want to make sure that any additional investment we do would be met with a commensurate increase in and output that would actually be to the benefit of of drivers. I think one of their biggest frustrations is they feel like taxes or fees or other uh things go up and they don't actually see the outcome in in resulting benefit of of of infrastructure. Um, I uh I did have another question. I'm not sure uh who on the panel would be best for this. Maybe Mr.
▶ 1:40:25Davis, this would be more in your uh bucket, but uh the VMT issue of total miles traveled. Where do you see the between total miles traveled and I guess the obligation for the user to pay for that use of the roads versus the person who might drive relatively little but still needs those roads available for the time that they do drive. So somebody who may not travel very often still needs that road to connect them.
▶ 1:40:53You know, it needs to be available all the time for them to drive and visit relatives, go to the doctor and you know, pursue the obligations that they have. So that entirely I guess placing the entire uh cost expectation on the number of miles driven versus the the I guess comparative ratio of of having the available infrastructure. Where do you see that falling? And would we be placing all of our eggs in one basket?
▶ 1:41:20And would it affect, you know, rural drivers like those in my district who who may travel further but still need, you know, other folks need the benefit of the the highway system uh whether they drive every day or not. That's an excellent point. Um right now, as I mentioned, three of the five existing taxes, the gasoline, diesel, and uh heavy truck tire tax basically the extent of your driving.
▶ 1:41:42you know, you drive more, you two more gallons, truck burns more tires, and the other two are just uh once a once a purchase or once a year uh for system access. And I think a blend of those concepts in the future is probably accurate because, you know, a good amount of it is uh uh based on VMT wear and tear, not just wear and tear, but also congestion, but uh system access is is an area that we haven't taxed enough on the individual side that uh perhaps there's room for.
▶ 1:42:10And you alluded, and I've only got a few seconds left, so I apologize, but you alluded to if we don't do a VMT or a userbased fee like some other application of of of building the highway trust fund would be necessary. Do you have any alternative methods? You know, we seem to be at a stalemate between VMT, gas tax, degrading value of that with fuel economy and in electric vehicles.
▶ 1:42:33What would be an alternative method of of doing this that you would feel would be Um, user fee is better, but if you're going to keep a trust fund, if it's not user fee, at least it's got to be a reliable, that's the most important thing is reliable year-to-year sense of revenue. No vol as little volatility as possible. Um, at one point there was a suggestion for a uh crude oil barrel tax. I believe Mr. DeFazio chased that for a while.
▶ 1:42:56And something like that would be uh not directly highway user because you're taxing the plastics industry and whoever else uses oil, but it would be better than uh better than nothing. going to be more and then less volatile. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Nadler, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bureres, your testimony calls for the committee to reauthorize the funding baseline in the BIL plus inflation.
▶ 1:43:23Do you view that baseline is solely covering the highway trust fund programs or do you mean that that baseline to include the programs covered by advanced appropriations as I mean both, sir. I think we need to take the baseline that we're putting toward that you've used for advanced appropriation for the surface transportation system and take that combined with the highway trust fund and we need to grow that for inflation in order to just meet the basic needs that we have in front of us today.
▶ 1:43:55Thank you. Uh, for decades the highway trust fund was funded primarily through gas taxes paid by drivers, but that hasn't been the full story for a long time. Today, gas tax revenues cover barely half of the trust funds spending. I I think this was mentioned earlier. And Congress has repeatedly used general taxpayer dollars, including more than $275 billion since 2008 to keep it solvent.
▶ 1:44:20That means every taxpayer, including millions of Americans who don't own a car and rely on public transit, are already helping to fund the system. Transit riders are paying into the trust fund, too, and they deserve a fair share of the investment. Mr. Davis, you've written extensively about the highway trust fund's history and the political compromises that shaped its evolution, including the creation of the mass transit account in 1982.
▶ 1:44:46As you have noted, transit investments often relieve congestion, expand access to jobs, and protect road infrastructure by reducing wear and tear. Given these benefits, can you discuss the importance of maintaining and strengthening dedicated transit funding within the highway trust fund? If you go back and look at the debates in the 70s and early 80s, the uh urban lobby was arguing about facts on the ground. They said, "Okay, our our big cities don't need more urban cross freeways.
▶ 1:45:16We need more transit." They really didn't care where the money came from. Uh the trust fund lobby, on the other hand, was saying the highway trust fund was user pay, user benefit, and that's that's the way it's set up, and this is a violation of that. And and both sides were correct because they were having different arguments at the same time talking past each other. And it took in 1972, uh it took until the urban vote got big enough that uh they were able to defeat a highway bill for the first time.
▶ 1:45:40And eventually in 73 they wound up getting a compromise to open the trust fund up to transit projects when the locals would select. And then again in ' 82 they realized early on that uh they were going to need the urban vote. And so they went ahead with the uh penny for transit uh 8020 split of the new revenue uh for a mass transit account then. So what it took in the past was the the plain fact that the bill couldn't pass without the votes that demanded mass transit funding. It was a pure pure and simple.
▶ 1:46:10And uh since then uh you've had the mass transit account still only gets about 13% of trust fund revenues because the trucking revenues and the pre982 gas and diesel revenues are still entirely devoted to the highway account. So they're getting about 20% of trust fund spending but only uh about 13% of trust fund revenues. So the mass transit account is much more extended. 13% of mass of trust fund revenues comes from where?
▶ 1:46:39Uh it goes to the mass transit account. They get about 13% of the revenues depending on how volatile trucking is and they're getting 20% of the roughly 20% of the spending. So the mass transit account is much more overleveraged than the highway account at present. Uh and something's got to be done to uh ameliate that as well. Yeah. especially since his gas tax revenues cover barely half of the trust funds spending and the the other half is coming from from the taxpayer.
▶ 1:47:09Yes, Mr. Davis, uh you've Oh, uh Mr. Tor, your testimony highlights the urgent need for investments in transit assets and the growing backlog of repairs. Given shifting demographics, climate challenges, and the need to connect all Americans to economic opportunity, how critical is it that Congress preserve and expand federal investments in public transit, and what risks do we face if we fail to do so?
▶ 1:47:38Yeah, I appreciate the question, uh, Representative Nadler. Um, the study after study on kind of all across the intellectual spectrum shows that transit produces net benefits to society. what economists will also often wonkily call like elomeration economies spillovers. The the point is this this helps grow places, helps get people to work um particularly uh in a more affordable manner. Uh it provides economic net economic benefit.
▶ 1:48:05Uh it's not just the communities it's in but the country as a whole. Um the the question I think for the Congress as as as my colleague was just speaking to is how do you set up the revenue system in a sustainable way to make sure that you can kind of invest in all of the above solutions that makes sense for each of these communities. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Collins, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:48:32Um I was making some notes there on on something that was just said. Sorry about that. Listen, I I just want to take a few minutes and I want to speak uh from the perspective of a trucker because I'm in the trucking business. Uh it's all I've done all my life. And uh I guess the first thing I want to start out with is just a a list of taxes that we pay from the trucking industry. I mean, first of all, we pay for tags, which is supposed to be international registration plan for every truck, every tag every year.
▶ 1:49:01Then we've got feet tax on new purchases, which is based on the purchase price, which when I bought my first truck back in the early 90s, fully loaded, decked out, was 81,000. Today's pushing over 200,000 per truck. Trailers are the same way. We pay feet tax on every tire we buy. And by the way, there's 18 tires on 18-wheeler, and we use a lot of them. We pay fuel tax based on fuel mileage in every state across this country.
▶ 1:49:31No matter whether you buy fuel in that state and the the taxes based on the tax rates for that state. We also pay the federal highway use tax which has gone up over years. We used to pay it in a rears based on how many trucks you did have for the past year. Now we pay it up front on how many trucks you have today in one lump sum. And there is no refund if you wreck or if you sell the truck. So that's just a a a conglomeration of what we pay to stay out there on the road.
▶ 1:50:02And when you you look at things like what we've had to watch over the past administration with the IGA with 1.24 trillion whatever it is that was spent when less than half of it went to fix our roads and bridges out there. The majority of it we had to watch as they built bike paths and put I don't even know if they ever built an EV charger, but we had to watch as our taxpayer dollars were spent on something that was unnecessary.
▶ 1:50:29When we're out there sitting in congested roads, can't move, roads that need potholes fixed, bridges that need to be replaced. On average, road construction from the time it starts to the time it's finished, 7 and a half years before they get started on the road. 10 years to finish it. What does that tell you? They spend most of the time on permits and all of these lawsuits from all of these environmentalists out there that's suing us.
▶ 1:50:58Then you take the contractor that's building the road. You realize that they pad their bills by 30% just to pay for all of these crazy permits for all of these frivolous lawsuits that are going on. I guess one of the thing I wanted to I got to ask a couple questions. Mr. Johnson, asphalt, if I remember right. Right. Asphalt prices based on what? Petroleum price. Does it go up when petroleum goes up? Goes down when petroleum goes down.
▶ 1:51:29Okay, Mr. Davis, this is a question I I I didn't understand you and it's really a question I've been looking for. Does Mass Transit pay more into the federal highway use trust fund than what they get back or do they get back do they get more out of it than what they pay in? There are no specific taxes on the use of mass transit that go to the trust fund. Now, a lot of people who uh they get m they get m they get federal high use tax. I take the subway occasionally, but I also own a car.
▶ 1:51:59So you know the bill there are people but the but mass transit gets highway trust fund yes money taxes on highway highway users are deposited mass I think it's somewhere around 6 to8 billion a year something like that I think that's it it's about 5 billion a year in uh that was the answer I was looking for thank listen truckers and I know we're looking at how we're going to set this up 98% of trucking company out there are 10 trucks or less these are generational we work off of pennies
▶ 1:52:29per mile, 2 and a half% return. Truckers have paid enough into the tax system. If you want to do something, get your priorities right. Congress needs to get the priorities right and quit spending money on all this junk out there like bike trails. Put it into the roads and the bridges that we need fixing and replaced out there. Get these frivolous lawsuits off of everybody. Get some loser pay out there.
▶ 1:52:57give me some good tort reform, you will reduce the cost of what it's costing to build these roads and bridges out there. And you know what, Mr. Johnson? Make us energy independent. You start producing oil here in our country, then you'll see the price of gas, you'll see the price of petroleum come down. And oh, by the way, the EPA, who hasounded on the truckers forever, we've gotten less fuel mileage. Every time the EPA makes a decision out there, our fuel mileage goes down.
▶ 1:53:24So, we pay more just by buying a gallon of fuel. The other thing I'd like to say, uh, I know I'm out of town, out of time. I think we just need to block grant money to these states and let them handle how to best use it and fix their own roads and expand their own roads and bridges. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Miss Freriedman, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the to the witnesses for coming here today.
▶ 1:53:51Um, you know, as we discuss all these challenges facing the highway trust fund, I want to just take a minute to talk about how we use the money that's in there. Uh, you know, something that LA knows a lot about is traffic congestion. Um, the national statistics on highway congestion in 2022 shows that the cost of congestion was $244 billion nationwide. That's about $614 million a day that we spend because of congestion.
▶ 1:54:20It also wastes billions of gasoline nationally with about 21 wasted gallons of gasoline per driver per year. It releases about 24 million tons of excess greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and congestion resulted in an extra 8.5 billion hours of traffic delays across the country. In LA alone, each commuter spent an extra 122 hours per year sitting in traffic. Nobody likes doing that, least of all me.
▶ 1:54:50Between 1993 and 2017, we've added 30,500 new freeway lane miles of roads in the largest 100 urbanized areas. That's a 42% increase in freeway lane miles. States alone spend more than $500 billion and um on highway capital investments in urbanized areas with a significant portion spent on highway expansions.
▶ 1:55:17Now in that same time frame that we were expanding all these highways and putting billions and billions of dollars into those projects, traffic congestion in those 100 urbanized areas has grown by 144%. The evidence is clear and statist study after study shows this that highway expansions now they do a lot of things. Sometimes they add uh roads to places that didn't have them before. Sometimes they make our roads a lot safer.
▶ 1:55:47And there's certainly places where we need to expand our highways. But when it comes to congestion, there's not really evidence that expanding highways to deal with congestion is doing anything except making congestion worse because of induced demand.
▶ 1:56:02Now, in my community, where we've widened the five freeway and many other roads, we've seen no measurable decrease in congestion, and it's come at a lot of cost to the residents who live around those highways, many of whom saw a market decrease in their quality of life.
▶ 1:56:21And at the same time, that money that went into those expansions didn't go into things that we know reduces congestion, namely more investments in mass transit, in urban mass transit. Transit's estimated to reduce CO2 emissions by 37 million metric tons annually. Individuals who ride on public transportation instead of driving can save more than $13,000 a year. That's over $1,000 per month.
▶ 1:56:48And certainly for many people in our urban areas, they can't afford to own and operate a car. And so they're transit dependent. And because of our lack of investment in transit, we've given them many times really just terrible qualities of life because transit doesn't work well enough for them. It's too slow and it doesn't come enough. So and also robust public transportation systems takes users off the road, which does reduce congestion and makes the roads not wear as quickly.
▶ 1:57:17Every $1 billion we invest in public transportation sustains $5 billion in long-term economic impact and 50,000 jobs, which sounds like a great value for taxpayers money. So, I'm going to ask Mr. Tor, um, to your knowledge, is it standard practice across the country that when we're looking at investing our transportation dollars and our highway funds that communities are doing a costbenefit analysis of the same investment going into mass transit or going into a highway widening?
▶ 1:57:46I know that some communities have done this but is this common practice and should it be? Uh thank you for the question representative. Um the look every every state and community is different and I think we know that that's actually one of the kind of great features of this country. Um our costbenefit analyses uh have come under attack for decades now from academics and this is really civil attack when I want to be clear like a civil discourse. Um the question is what are you what are you trying to achieve? I we got to be blunt with you with all of ourselves here. What what are we trying to solve?
▶ 1:58:16We we know, and I really appreciate you bringing this up, that induced demand is a effectively economic truth. Um, you can't endlessly expand highways once you've built out a community. It's a it's a fallacy to tell our households that suddenly this is going to solve congestion because we know it's not. What bothers me the most, frankly, and I think it's in the tenor of today's conversation, it slows down freight, slows down trucking. I hate when deliveries are late to my house, and I'm sure businesses feel far more far worse when it's their bottom line.
▶ 1:58:43Um, so I think what's what's key here is how do we think about sensible boss costbenefit analysis that makes sense for each one of these communities. Oftentimes transit like in greater Los Angeles, right? Voters over twothirds approved this expansion because it's what made sense to them after for generations frankly trying a different solution. Um, it's going to look different in different places, but again, as we keep adding people to this country, which is a truly bipartisan goal, we're gonna have to think about how we can realistically fit all of them and our businesses and their freight in these um in these growing communities.
▶ 1:59:14Well, thank you. Because doing things the same way over and over again with bad results is not a good way for us to move forward. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Stalber. Thank you very much. Um, thanks for all of you uh for being here and testimony. You know, the previous Biden administration pushed an unsustainable mandate on the American people, electric vehicles.
▶ 1:59:38They tried to take the choice away from the American taxpayer. Former Secretary Buddha Judge and I frequently sparred on this topic. I often had to remind him that the cars, electric vehicles were unaffordable, inoperable in cold weather climates, and the infrastructure simply didn't exist to make it work.
▶ 2:00:03And when they siphoned billions of taxpayer dollars to pay for their Green New Deal agenda, they eliminated the by America provisions and used child slave labor to expedite the process. Obviously, I disagreed. Some people have bought into the EV way of life, and that's fine. What I've always wanted above anything else is consumer choice.
▶ 2:00:30Flexibility for the American people to do what is best for them. But it's important to note that the current state of play is not fair. EVs currently benefit from the highway system, but do not contribute to it. What's worse is that they are heavy vehicles and far harder on our roads. Mr.
▶ 2:00:52Beris, could you talk a little more about the annual fee the state of Utah has utilized in an effort to address EV's usage? Thank you. Yes. So, the state of Utah approached the idea here with one of fairness and choice. And so we recognized that EVs were not paying their fair share for their use of the roadway and but we wanted to give people a choice on how they would do this.
▶ 2:01:20So we approached it by doing a $140 annual fee on EVs and then we have a road usage charge program, kind of a parallel program. And so folks can opt in to the road usage charge program. They don't pay the $140 fee and they'll only pay for the miles that they drive. And so it's trying to be fair to the EV users, but also fair to the rest of the highway users.
▶ 2:01:47And we found this to be a fairly it's it's well accepted from our users. Obviously, if you have a choice, you've you've decided you like that approach. Um but we think that was, you know, we feel very comfortable with that approach. I anticipate now this is Carlos, not my state legislature. We anticipate that our next steps going forward will to be to require EV users to go into the road usage charge program. Um but that's still a that's a policy debate still to take place.
▶ 2:02:16I think EV and hybrid fees are an important step to addressing par on the roads and ensuring transportation infrastructure remains a shared responsibility. when the Biden administrated administration mandated EV use.
▶ 2:02:35Can you imagine being in northern Minnesota when it's 35 below trying to get to work when the battery has 50% less usage or or even less than that? And it was disappointing that we had to push continuously push the former administration to allow us to have choice just like you did for your citizens in Utah. You gave them a choice and an opportunity for them to choose.
▶ 2:03:04That's what the American people wanted. They didn't want the EV mandate forced down their throat. Mr. Chair, I yield back. Mr. Stanton. Thank you very much, Mr. chairman and thank you for the witnesses for being here for this very very important hearing.
▶ 2:03:25Highway trust fund is essential to help states build out and maintain their infrastructure, but it is in need of real reform to make sure like states like Arizona, my home state, get a fair deal. We need to be pragmatic about how this investment upkeeps highway and transit, keeping families and businesses connected. So, I want to thank all the witnesses for your recommendations as we work to develop a strong bipartisan surface transportation reauthorization bill.
▶ 2:03:51In Arizona, like most states, we make the most of the formula funding that is allotted to uh that is allotted. AOT uses highway trust fund dollars to maintain its more than 28,000 lane miles. Federal formula funds are also used to modernize and improve safety along existing roadways like US 93 connecting parts of rural western Arizona which recently received federal funds to turn a two lane highway into a fourlane divided highway making it much much safer.
▶ 2:04:21Project like this improve safety for Arizonans, lessen congestion and allow for more freight transportation to move across the state an important part of our commerce. But even with investments like these, Arizona is doing more with less. Arizona has added more than 2 million people since just 2000.
▶ 2:04:41Our economy has grown exponentially, but current funding formulas are decades old and rely woefully on outdated census information and traffic data. Arizona is one of the fastest growing states in the country, but this year we received one of the lowest percentage of funds relative to our state's contribution. Continue to rely on this antiquated formula to determine future investments isn't just inefficient policy.
▶ 2:05:08It puts fast growing states at a significant disadvantage and undermines our ability to tackle our significant and growing infrastructure needs. Just yesterday, I introduced a bipartisan bill with my colleague, Congressman Tony Gonzalez of Texas to modernize this formula. Texas is another fast growing state that has not seen the level of investment to keep up with its population.
▶ 2:05:29Our highway formula fairness act will allow for the dennial census to be considered when calculating aortionment, permitting states that have increased population since their previous sentence to receive funding that reflects that growth. It is just common sense. The bill would also require the Secretary of Transportation to conduct a highway formula modernization study to assess the methods and data that are currently used to aortion federal a highway fund so we can keep up building and improving. Mr.
▶ 2:05:56Breres, thank you for your perspective both as a representative of Ashtto as a and as executive director uh for Utah. In your testimony, you reflected on that like Arizona, Utah has seen increased growth. In fact, Utah was also one of the fastest growing states in the country. How would having a 10-year census numbers as part of the aortionment calculation for the highway trust fund impact your state of Utah? Thank you. Thank you, Congressman, for the question.
▶ 2:06:24And yes, like Arizona, Utah's growing tremendously right now. And uh it's really one of the biggest concerns that our citizens have. I would say the better the best data we have, let's use the best data we can have to make more informed decisions. And so I'm always a fan of getting the best data, the more recent data we can have to be able to make those decisions. So very supportive of the idea of that. All right.
▶ 2:06:49And like Utah, Arizona has needs to um improve our existing older infrastructure while keeping up with the growth needs. We need to do uh both. Mr. Johnson, in your testimony, you focused on federal investments for project delivery, workforce development, and economic activity as it relates to North Carolina. You brought up the importance of maintaining a userbased trust fund to ensure that critical road and bridge funding is not rep prioritized.
▶ 2:07:14In your opinion, what would be the biggest mistake we could make regarding the highway trust fund in this upcoming highway bill? What would cause the most harm on future highway construction Thank you for your question, Congressman. Um, the biggest mistake we could do is to to do nothing. Um, it is it is a broken system. We know it's been a broken system and there are numerous different alternatives out there that could help fix the system.
▶ 2:07:39So the just asking Congress to you know make a choice and and hopefully fix the system for the long term. Uh really appreciate it. By the way, the the irony of it is that infrastructure investment is probably the most popular um investment we can make at the federal level. people do not mind uh if they need to pay more, they know they're getting an infrastructure investment which improves their lives and they know improves their local economy. What finally just have a statement, Mr.
▶ 2:08:09Davis, I don't have a question, but just to say thank you to the team at ENO. Uh the work that you do in providing support for in a bipartisan way for this committee uh is important and will make us have a better service transportation bill and it's very much appreciated. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Math is a stubborn thing, of course, and the math tells us that if Congress does not act, the highway trust fund will be insolvent in just three years.
▶ 2:08:36And because math is such a stubborn thing, we know that if Congress does not act that we will be in a $50 billion hole by the year 2035. And in fact, since 2008, uh we have uh put $275 billion from the general fund into the highway trust fund. And at the same time, of course, we don't have everybody paying into the system. Now, a user pays system works pretty well when everybody pays in. It really falls apart when you have free writers.
▶ 2:09:06That's why I was so grateful to hear Mr. Stabber, Mr. Brisceris have a back and forth uh about my bill with Deb Fischer uh that would make sure that everybody's paying their fair share. And I was grateful for so many of the witnesses for addressing this issue in their testimony. And to make it clear, our bill with my bill with Senator Fischer would just say, hey, for those EVs, they're going to pay their fair share. We've calculated what would be a fair amount if they were an internal combustion engine.
▶ 2:09:34Of course, we have an accounting for the the heavier weight because of the battery. It seems like it's an idea that's gaining some steam. And so, Mr. Chairman, I would ask for unanimous consent to enter this letter of support for my bill uh signed by 25 national associations. Without objection. So, ordered. So, uh Mr. Johnson. Uh any thoughts from you all or from the broader pavement and asphalt industry about uh our bill?
▶ 2:09:58Um I haven't read the bill but I from your question um you know we do think EVs everyone should pay their share. EVs are heavier. They do weigh more than normal ve combustion vehicles and they do have more wear and tear and we believe that all users should be paying into the system to help support it. Mr. Breres, I was grateful to hear about Utah's experience.
▶ 2:10:22Uh, if we were to do something at the federal level, would that complicate Utah's efforts or would they mesh pretty well? I think they would mesh pretty well, Congressman. I think there's some details as I reviewed your bill that we could work through, but I think it would work really well. Anything in particular from either of you gentlemen? Mr. Johnson, you haven't read the bill yet, so maybe you get off the hook, but Mr. Breres, is there anything we should uh any way we should try to improve our bill or do you think we're pretty close to the Goldilock spot?
▶ 2:10:50Um, as I as I went through this bill and talked with staff, I I I made the comment, it's a very thoughtful bill and I I think it's there's obviously, you know, as these things move through the process, there's tweaks that need to be made. Um, you know, right now I I look at the way the money is being received at the state level. There's different every state receives the money through different organizations, but that's all stuff that could be worked out. So, I think it's a I think it's a good start. Well, I would echo Mr. Johnson who said to Mr.
▶ 2:11:19Stanton's very good question that the worst thing we could do is nothing. And I would observe that trying to make sure everybody pays their fair share is a very important ingredient, a critical ingredient in the something we must do with surface uh transportation reauthorization. Mr. Berus, let's stay with you. Um, I suspect we all know that studies indicate that an EIS through the federal highway takes seven years. That's an obnoxious length of time.
▶ 2:11:47And it's almost a uniquely American problem. The same kind of highway project you can get done in Italy and France in two years does take seven years in this country when the Italians seem to be a paragon of efficiency. Perhaps America has lost its way. And so, uh, I've got a bill, uh, that would, in essence, uh, require that the agencies use a cloud-based platform to have an ENEPA process.
▶ 2:12:14Of course, last week, President Trump signed an executive order that would do much the same thing. Your observations, sir, about my bill and and the president's executive order. Yeah, I think there's a lot we can do in this country to actually move projects forward. we seem more inclined anymore to stop things than we are to build things. And um so one of the things we've done in the state of Utah, we were one of the first states to take on take on what's called NEPO assignment. So we are the decision makers on the EIS for the highway side of things.
▶ 2:12:45And I was challenged when we first did that is why do you want to do that? Are you trying to short change the process? And it's no, I want to stand up with my citizens and explain why I made a decision. And I don't want to point behind me and say the feds made me do this. We've been able to demonstrate we can deliver environmental projects faster, both environmental assessments and EIS's significantly faster by taking on that NEPA assignment. And I think there's other ways that we could work with the federal government to find we need to build more in this country.
▶ 2:13:15Uh that's exactly properly said. Uh Mr. Mr. Johnson, I'm sorry I'm out of time and I would just close by noting that given the strength of the comments by both of you, I would just ask my colleagues to look at both of those bills and consider signing on. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I would yield back. Sorry, Mr. Carveral. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 2:13:35Tor, research shows that on average, states suballocate just 14% of transportation funds to local governments, well below the proportion of travel occurring on locallyowned infrastructure. In 15 states, that share is less than 5%. What does this disparity suggest about the need for federal reforms that better empower local and regional partners?
▶ 2:14:00Yeah, thank you for the question, Um, I think at its core, what it speaks to is we have some uh faults inside our user pay kind of concept, right? um everyone's paying but not everyone's getting their money back.
▶ 2:14:19Um and so I think there's an really fresh opportunity uh particularly in this Congress um with lessons from the IIGJ period in particular to think about um how do we make sure that the kind of fiscal resources um are being returned if we're thinking about this kind of user pay and user benefits system um that so many folks including the um your um your colleagues here have mentioned today.
▶ 2:14:44Um now part of the challenge is the federal government is um has chosen really for decades upon decades to aortion the money directly to the states and and that could work. Um what we're seeing inside our numbers though is that once the states control their fiscal resources, they're not passing it back um to their regional partners. Um, so I think the question before this Congress is how much should at least for federal funds should the federal government be be electing where those should be kind of who should be the recipient of those?
▶ 2:15:13Um, and and doesn't want to weigh in any further than that. Thank you, Mr. Tor. Metropolitan planning organizations, NPOS, serve as a vital conduit between federal transportation policy and real world implementation in the communities where most Americans live and work. Composed largely of local elected officials, NPOS's offer both deep public engagement and regional coordination.
▶ 2:15:39Yet, their role is often constrained by limited authority and insufficient federal recognition. How can Congress better elevate and support the unique role NPOS and by extension local governments play in advancing national infrastructure goals? Yeah, uh thank you for the question. Uh it's great. Um let me answer in two parts. I'm going to be respectful my colleagues have a chance to answer questions too.
▶ 2:16:04The um the first one is that um the Congress has done some impressive experimentation with performance measurement performance management with our metropolitan colleagues. Um the the question is how can we extend that beyond them also to their state peers. Um think about what are we trying to get out of the system right what I like about both parties is they're constantly talking about accountability and there's some real opportunities there. The second one is that um and let's all be frank.
▶ 2:16:31I mean we actually just we'll have some upcoming research being published in a couple weeks on this. Basically every member of Congress, no matter how it's designed, they represent a metropolitan area. Um and what's so um I'm going to sound like such a nerd here, but like what is so cool about metropolitan areas is our jurisdictions are fixed for the most part, right? Unless you're like in a in a Nashville or you know Indianapolis and and has some Louisville has some fascinating expansions.
▶ 2:16:54But the question is at the metropolitan scale, how do we actually come together beyond those jurisdictional boundaries to actually work at the scale of where economies work right now? The federal government's opportunity here, especially because it has mandated their existence in these places, they actually exist, right? They are a board-like structure where municipalities come together. How can we empower them um to actually deliver more?
▶ 2:17:18So, we personally are fans of actually passing more fiscal authority to them from the federal level, making sure they can then work with their member municipalities to think about investments that make sense for them and doing that alongside their state colleagues. So, there's a lot of opportunities here. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. I know we're discussing how to best fund future highway bills via user fees, but it also comes down to how best to maximize these precious resources.
▶ 2:17:43Can you help give me some insight on how your industry is helping stretch taxpayer dollars for road construction using materials like reclaimed asphalt wrap? Thank you for the opportunity to speak about wrap. Our the asphalt industry um you know reclaimed asphalt is one of the most recycled products in the in the world in the country.
▶ 2:18:05Um, you know, we through the process of maintenance, we remove a lot of asphalt or we remove a lot of roads and 100% of that product is able to go back into our asphalt mixes. As much as 40% of our new asphalt going on the road is made with with recycled asphalt. It's reclaimed from other jobs. It's not going to landfills. It saves us money. It saves the taxpayers money. It saves us energy. It is one of the one of our highlights of our industry. Thank you. I'm out of time.
▶ 2:18:35I have one more question for you. So, I'm going to submit it and hopefully we'll get an answer from you uh on the record. But thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I'm out of time. Mr. Shre, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to our witnesses. Uh I represent u uh central Indiana, so I'm one of those Mr. Tor one of those communities that's something of a hybrid. Um keenly interested in the subject. This is our fourth subcommittee uh hearing.
▶ 2:19:02Uh in my district, I've got uh the Interstate 465 ring road around Indianapolis and four interstate highways that traverse the district. Uh I'm going to point this question in the direction of Mr. Burkhard. Um my district is a combination of urban, uh suburban, and rural.
▶ 2:19:24And in your uh dense uh submitted testimony, uh you uh spoke about the uh TPA in Tennessee and that's that program is just a few years in the making. It may be possible for a Hooser to learn something from a volunteer possibly.
▶ 2:19:41Uh but uh the relevance to to that program uh caught my eye because it it uh it spoke to freeing up funding to invest in uh the condensed urbanized areas so as to move dollars into some of the the rural communities. And it uh in your testimony you spoke about the extraordinary uh three to fivefold return ratio on that.
▶ 2:20:05Um, we can't begin to flesh out all the the the written testimony that the witnesses offer us. Uh but if if we could spotlight uh some of your experience uh that you've seen in Tennessee and what that may portend as a model as we figure out how we can fund these improvements um these u what was the uh term the the choice lanes in say 465 so as to have more dollars to work with uh on
▶ 2:20:35our arterials that emanate out from urban centers like Indianapolis or Louisville. Uh thank you for your question. Um yeah uh Jacobs was fortunate to have been able to work on part of the P3 program uh in Tennessee and um the thing that I think I hear resounding is speed speed to delivery and that was um one of the biggest results of that effort.
▶ 2:20:59Tennessee uh sought to accelerate their investment into infrastructure and uh passed resolution to put uh three billion dollars into state funding uh to uh add choice uh lanes. These choice lanes are managed lanes.
▶ 2:21:14are told facilities and um they provide a means of revenue to help uh repay uh the investments and uh it becomes a um a desirable uh business uh uh investment from concessionires who will take on the asset uh to continue to improve that asset and they're being held accountable for those lanes in uh in uh for a set amount of time.
▶ 2:21:44And so that uh is a model that we're seeing in some other locations across the state and that we participated on. Uh choice lanes or managed lanes is um is definitely a viable method. Mr.
▶ 2:21:58Birkhard, if if the act was passed by the Tennessee legislature in 2023, and given the seven-year sort of lead time that we've we've uh accepted at the moment that it may take to build out some of this infrastructure, can we draw conclusions as to whether or not this model is working in Tennessee or is it very much in the the the beta testing stage? Yeah, it's uh it's it's too too early to tell.
▶ 2:22:27Um although we are already working uh alongside the stateappointed uh PMO office uh program management office uh consulting uh organization so it's um it's it's moved into high gear and um uh so uh yeah I would say it's too early to tell. All right. Okay. Thank you. Um uh Mr. Johnson, just briefly, uh, in my home state, we suffered, uh, flooding just this month.
▶ 2:22:56Uh, in North Carolina, you really took it on the chin. Uh, you talked in your testimony about improvements, enhancements in the way in which we design our highways from a resiliency standpoint. uh is a is a stretch of highway constructed today materially different in its environmental resiliency than it was 25 years ago.
▶ 2:23:22In my opinion, it's it's not substantially different from it was 25 years ago. All right. I I didn't know if there was some secret sauce that we hadn't figured out as at INDOT as we're building stretches of highway that are susceptible to flooding. So, no, not so. All right. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Thank you, Chairman Rouseer, Ranking Member Holmes, who I know is not with us, but thank you guys for pulling this hearing together. Um, I uh I represent Alabama, a part of Alabama.
▶ 2:23:52Um, Mobile up to Montgomery and kind of everything between Mississippi and Georgia. Uh, so a lot of rural uh a lot of rural areas um are part of the makeup of my district. And you know in you know in being in rural in a rural district like many of my colleagues here um we rely heavily on long stretches of federal highways to move freight access essential services.
▶ 2:24:15Uh this is only going to be amplified um particularly in the Mobile area but also regionally uh with the expansion of the port in Mobile which uh come about 60 days or so give or take will be the deepest uh port in the Gulf of Mexico. And so we expect the freight that comes through the Gulf uh through the Port of Mobile um to expand greatly uh exponentially.
▶ 2:24:38And so it's it's very critical that we are uh focusing on trying to secure the type of sustained infrastructure investment that we struggle year-over-year uh to do. Uh Mr. Johnson, I want to start with you because you had a colleague here at one of our last hearings, Janet um Kavanaokei from Vulcan, uh headquartered in Alabama, not quite in my district, but up in Birmingham, and she testified earlier about the importance of the highway trust fund.
▶ 2:25:01Uh can you give me a little more detail on what the asphalt industry um you know, as a whole can do uh to extend the highway trust fund dollars? Um the asphalt industry like as u stated um in a couple other questions we constantly are trying to uh improve our cost structure trying to u make asphalt as cheap as possible make it as the quality as long life as possible.
▶ 2:25:30I'm constantly trying to be find ways to be innovative and through different designing design methods and using recycled materials to to make those dollars go as far as possible. Gotcha. And Mr. Davis, from your perspective, um does the highway trust fund, you know, in its current status, does it sufficiently account for the infrastructure needs uh in lowincome and low population rather in rural uh communities across the country?
▶ 2:26:00At present, it's not uh satisfying all the needs anywhere because even though the spending has crept up substantially in the last couple of years, uh cost inflation on on materials and labor has crept up even higher. So, it's it's uh it's it's not getting the job done in rural areas, but that's not to say that rural areas are are are uh being disproportionately discriminated against with funding. It's it's you know, things are rough everywhere. Yeah.
▶ 2:26:27Uh do you have any particular ideas that this committee should keep in mind to make sure that uh because as I see it and throughout my lifetime um you know coming from Alabama you have the you know your main cities in Alabama which for the most part they're located right on main interstates as they are everywhere. Mobile, Montgomery, Birmingham, Huntsville, but then you get to these long stretches in between those those cities and those are often the forgotten territories in terms of investments, infrastructure and otherwise.
▶ 2:26:56Uh but do you have any specific ideas that we can do to keep in mind to make sure that we are continuing to flow those investments in the highway trust fund investments to uh those rural and and lower population communities? In this case, it kind of begins and ends with the state DOT because the the federal government doesn't particularly uh prescribe the degree to which the dollars given to the states have to be spent urban versus rural.
▶ 2:27:22uh you know I believe 55 60% of one program gets suballocated by population and that but but that doesn't really account for the the vast majority of the spending. So um it's uh and Congress has has traditionally been hesitant to force more uh urban versus rural highway decisions on states preferring to let them make those minds up themselves. Yeah.
▶ 2:27:47And this is um guess for anyone who wants to chime in on it, but the we've talked about the the need for the balance between EVs and the emerging uh EVs on the road to to contribute to the highway um trust fund. How do we go about you how do you guys suggest that we go about doing that in a more efficient way giving given you know how they are charged like how they receive their fuel? Guess we'll start right here with you Mr. Breres. Congressman was a question. How would we start to implement an EV charge?
▶ 2:28:18No, how will we start how do how do you guys suggest that we go about collecting? Yeah, that is that is I think that is the big question for road usage charge. Um I think the way to do this is through the telematics in the vehicles.
▶ 2:28:32So, we've got about 50/50 of our customers right now are either do choosing to do an odometer read and send that picture of the odometer read to us or we have agreements with the OEMs, the car companies, and they will then give us just that mileage that that car is driven within our state. That is the most cost-effective way we've found because we've done these plugins into the OB2 port and that is more expensive. And so, I'm pretty sure the phone companies figured out how to charge a lot of people.
▶ 2:29:01We could probably figure out how to charge a lot of people as well. Well, thank you guys for your time and patience. And I yield back. Mr. McDow, you're up if you're ready. Thank you, Chairman.
▶ 2:29:18The funding mechanism of the highway trust fund was designed to set up a self-replenishing source of funding for infrastructure projects, but for nearly two decades, the fund has been sustained through transfers from the general fund of the Treasury. The Congressional Budget Office's most recent projections show that once the current surface transportation bill expires, the highway trust fund will have a 142 billion shortfall over the next 5 years.
▶ 2:29:47The funding structure established in the 1950s simply does not work in the 21st century. We have all seen the increasing number of hybrid and fully electric vehicles on the road, especially over the past few years. I'm all for consumer choice, but EV owners have been reaping the benefits of the highway system without contributing their fair share for long enough.
▶ 2:30:10Despite making up a growing proportion of cars on the road, EVs avoid paying the user fees that other vehicle owners pay in the form of fuel taxes. All while causing way more wear and tear on road surfaces. According to the Department of Transportation's own data, EV batteries are heavier, sometimes up to 50% heavier than the traditional internal combustion engines that they are replacing.
▶ 2:30:34The cost and frequency of road repairs is increasing and we must consider ways that all road users can be a part of the solution. Simply put, EV EVs cannot continue to get a free ride. As the witnesses today have already attested to, the stability of the highway trust fund impacts each state's ability to prioritize roadway improvements, which are vital to keeping drivers safe on the roads we all use.
▶ 2:31:00North Carolina is a prime example of a state that stands to lose a lot if Congress does not act to fix its funding shortfall. Our state's population is growing, resulting in more drivers on the roads. This growth, coupled with the increased costs of construction due to inflation brought on by the previous administration, will continue to raise both the cost and frequency of highway repairs.
▶ 2:31:24When viewed through this lens, adding hurricane damage into the mix is like throwing lighter fluid on a fire. As a proud congressman from the state of North Carolina, I'm going to ensure that my state has the resources it needs to tackle these safety challenges head on. I want to thank the witnesses for being here to testify today uh before this subcommittee and I look forward to the discussion today. Uh Mr. Johnson, I appreciate you being here.
▶ 2:31:50And, uh, for for those that may not know, the company, Fred Smith Company, uh, has been operating and growing in North Carolina for nearly a hundred years, has over,200 employees across my home state. Uh, there's even a couple of Smiths that live in my district. Uh, but today, uh, you're representing the asphalt pavement industry, which has operations in every state across the country.
▶ 2:32:16In fact, the Bureau of Transportation Statistics at DOT estimates that a tenth of our nation's workforce is directly employed by transportation related industries. So, the value of your perspective and and the work that this committee accomplishes has a significant impact on your business plans. With that in mind, does the highway trust fund solveny help with your company's projections regarding what projects you you bid on or uh for a slate of work uh during a given paving season?
▶ 2:32:47Yes, thank you, Congressman. Um, yeah, the so our state DOT does a really good job projecting out projects that they have in the in their plans and we count on those for our planning and our future investments.
▶ 2:33:00And when we see those jobs sliding because of funding, lack of funding, then we are hesitant to pull the trigger on making additional investments in our company and our asphalt plants and in hiring more employees and training our employees um for future positions due to growth. So without that consistent funding, it definitely makes us question and not pull the trigger on certain investments. Gotcha.
▶ 2:33:26As you mentioned in your testimony, North Carolina ranks second in the the nation for the number of statemaintained roads with more than 80,000 miles of of highway and over 13,500 bridges. Could you briefly describe the importance that HTF funding has across our state alone? And how do variables such as hurricane damage or projected population growth magnify the scope of that impact?
▶ 2:33:52So the HTF funds about 25% of our total roadway program in the state which is very significant. Um, you know, we we we perform a lot of projects for Fred Smith Company and others across the state that would not happen without the HTF.
▶ 2:34:08And as you mentioned, the hurricane um we met with the state DOT last week and they're they're anticipating a $5 billion cost to repair hurricane Helen and we are looking at some serious deficits in the state funding uh due to that. So the FHWA has been working very well with the state DOT to re reimburse those funds. So we appreciate that. But it's a it's a big mountain to climb. Sure thing. Thank you, sir. And Mr.
▶ 2:34:38Chairman, I yield back. Mr. Taylor, thank you, Chairman Rouseer and Ranking Member Norton for holding this hearing today. Excuse me. Thank you to our witnesses for their time and uh and testimony. I know it's a big sacrifice to to be here, and we appreciate you all very much. I represent a very rural part of Ohio. It's a place where we have four of the five poorest counties and nine of the 20 poorest counties in the state of Ohio. So, I'd like to focus for a minute on the uh the selling points we've had for VMT.
▶ 2:35:09Um Mr. Burkhard what only basis for uh VMT VMT being sold for as a as a benefit to rural communities today that I've heard is the that their cars get worse mileage. Are there is are there others? Just so I'm clear. Are you are you asking if there's other sources other than somebody else asked you what the how how it was cheaper for rural communities to have is and you just said yes mileage. Is there any other? Yes. Yes.
▶ 2:35:39Uh there was studies done uh through the TETC which is the uh Eastern Transportation Coalition I95 corridor and uh they uh did studies with uh Georgia and Maryland and uh determined that uh rural um participants uh ended up paying anywhere from 7 to 9% less than they would have paid with a fuel tax. Okay. This is from a study done where? I'm sorry.
▶ 2:36:07This is through the the uh TETC the um which is the Eastern Transportation Coalition uh which among other things supports uh mileagebased user fee studies with several of its member states and um this was a study that was done uh through that program. So they said they paid less but were were there reasons other than the fact that their cars are getting worse mileage or just that's that's the came out of that? Yes sir.
▶ 2:36:33mostly it was done it was due to the fact that uh their vehicles uh were uh lower gas mileage. So um you know the idea of mileage based user fee is that everyone pays the same amount per mile and as it is now people are unfairly um burdened uh with uh when they have uh vehicles that have lower gas mileage and that tends to So what I'm hearing is no other reason besides their cars get worse mileage. Mr.
▶ 2:37:00Davis, do you know of any other reason that it's it's supposed to benefit rural communities other than their cars get worse mileage? Um, no. The in generally speaking, VMT is uh traditionally a little higher in in rural areas than urban, although the the the growth lately has been more in uh in urban than rural. Okay. Do you know what?
▶ 2:37:22Does anyone know either of you two know what the baseline miles per gallon they they use as a as a for urban and rural areas compar or urban and suburban areas versus rural areas or did they just test a few cars or anybody know about the methodology because it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me that uh say you get 28 miles per gallon on a on driving in a suburban area or I would think you would get less than that in an urban area because you're sitting at a stop lightss all the time and say you
▶ 2:37:52get roughly 20 in a rural area that's 18% 23 but um we can get back to on that 23 for 23 miles per gallon which for for rural or for non- rural for for um for rural. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So that makes it even even better for the for the rural folks. So and say you're averaging 28 in non-ural areas.
▶ 2:38:14It's like now it's going to be probably a 12 or 13% difference in uh in mileage and a in in my district probably a 200% difference in miles driven. Um that's not really sustainable. It doesn't make sense to me that that would save the people in my district money. I mean am I explaining myself to where it makes sense? Okay. And again that there's no other basis for it. Okay. All right.
▶ 2:38:45Well, thank you. I appreciate that very much. Um, before I served in Congress, I owned a readym mixed concrete business. So, I'll echo some of Congressman Collins's comments from earlier, but I know the planning and work that goes into carrying out infrastructure projects. Mr. Johnson, how is the projected shortfall in the highway trust fund impacting the asphalt pavement industry regarding project timelines, workforce stability, and project planning? You only have 30 seconds, but if you want to hit the highlights and you want to add stuff later, you can submit it. Okay. Yeah, of course.
▶ 2:39:14The um so the shortfall is you know slowed down projects. It slowed down projects. It has redu it has slowed down our growth. It has um made the environment much more Um and it's uh you know delaying projects which is impacting our entire industry significantly. Okay. Thank you everybody and uh I yield back chairman Mr.
▶ 2:39:44Kennedy, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a pleasure to be here, and I'm grateful for this important hearing being convened. Our nation's infrastructure is the backbone of economic opportunity, public safety, and quality of life. For decades, the highway trust fund has played a role in building and maintaining that backbone. Yet today, we face a stark reality. The trust fund is on an unsustainable path, threatening the ability of states and localities to plan and deliver critical projects.
▶ 2:40:10We must work together to create a durable uh path forward that restores certainty, empowers innovation for states and meets the needs of a growing and dynamic America. Mr. Bureris, as a friend from Utah, I've known for many years, as we talked about at the earlier part, I'll ask you a series of questions if that's all right. We both know Utah's been a national leader in piloting road usage charge programs. Can you speak to the lessons learned from Utah's experience with RU programs and how it could translate to sustainable transportation funding efforts nationally?
▶ 2:40:41Yes, thank thank you uh congressman for that question. I thought you had been promoted there for a minute, but that was quick. For a minute. Yes. Um so so going back probably 2003 2004 that's when our legislature kind of looked at transportation funding across the board and determined that we're not going down a sustainable path and that's where the road usage charge program came from. So I would say a lesson learned for us in this is you have to lead with your policy principles.
▶ 2:41:11You can't just jump into a program and say this mathematically makes sense. You have to lead with a policy principle. So we we focus on protecting people's privacy. We don't use the word we're going to track you. That's that's not what anyone wants. And so we we we think that through one of the questions that um Congressman Taylor asked earlier about benefits to rural um um citizens.
▶ 2:41:36One of the things that we found where the Farm Bureau was part of our our convening board and coming up with the policies was we wouldn't charge if you're not on a public road. So rural users spend more time on non-public roads than urban users. And so by having the ability to not charge for p when you're on private roads, um that was a benefit that the uh rural community found in this. Now I think I don't see the road usage charge being as this panacea that's going to solve the problem.
▶ 2:42:06And we look at this as it's a combination of multiple revenue sources. So as we start to see more vehicles participating in road usage charge program, we're trying to see, you know, imagine that matching up with the decline in the purchasing power of the fuel tax. So we in Utah, we not only increased the, you know, 5-cent gas tax increase in 2015, but we also indexed it and we've indexed that to CPI. And so every year that's adjusted to CPI.
▶ 2:42:36Every year we're seeing road usage charge coming in. And we also bring in general fund monies to do our capacity projects. So basically fuel tax both federal and state is being used the user fees is being used to operate and maintain the roadways that day-to-day um activities. And the capital expansion is coming from our statewide sales tax of which by statute it's earmarked at 27.5% of the general fund is going to just capacity projects.
▶ 2:43:04And so we found that it's going to take several revenue sources to be able to solve because there's so much need out there. Thank you for that answer. I I'll add the idea that comes to me is that's important and we've worked on these things. You know that I'm a healthcare I I've been in healthcare my whole career and the Medicaid uh parameters around a federal state partnership. I'm interested in your thoughts.
▶ 2:43:26If we go 50 years in the future, as the year decades unfold, what what role do you see states playing in collaboration with the federal government over the next 50 years in regards to funding, maintaining, building these roads, bridges, and other infrastructure that we need? I think that's one of the successes that we have in this country. It's the federal, state, local partnerships. The projects are picked through a collaboration with local governments and the state government.
▶ 2:43:53But it's a it's a state administered federally assisted program. We can't do this without the federal government because this is a national transportation system that every state depends on. Our economy, our security depends on this. And so what I see going forward is I I anticipate we're going to see much greater dependence on road usage charging for that operation and maintenance piece.
▶ 2:44:16But I believe as a country, we still need to make a commitment that we're going to continue to build new projects, new transit projects, new road projects, because that's going to be what's going to generate the economic growth in our country. Thank you for that statement. And I'll finish just by saying that there's there's a great deal of red tape and difficulty that we put on ourselves through federal oversight and regulatory burden.
▶ 2:44:38and I along with many others are interested in reducing and eliminating when necessary those regulatory frameworks that actually are nonfunctional for us. With that, Mr. Chair, thank you for the time to ask these questions. Thank you to the witnesses for their willingness to be here and and take their time with us and I yield back. Mr. CI, thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:44:58uh underlying today's discussion about how we can shore up the highway trust fund uh has been uh sort of an implicit premise or at least sometimes this premise is there uh that you know the more we spend the better our roads are going to be the better our transportation infrastructure is going to be uh but that premise is not necessarily true uh most obviously when you just look at the fact that uh inflation has caused the cost of building to uh go up so much in recent years that I think it's something like uh 40% reduction in in the purchasing power uh under
▶ 2:45:28the uh the infrastructure act since it passed. But another example of that would be my own state of California which has the highest gas tax of any state in the country yet has among the worst roads uh and our taxpayers seem to pay more and more while the potholes get deeper uh and deeper. And so uh Mr. Berus, you seem to have had some success in uh in Utah uh in terms of actually getting a better return on your investment.
▶ 2:45:54So would you have any advice to uh us in California as to how we can do better? And maybe Mr. Johnson, if you also wanted to weigh in on this broader question of how apart from the question of how we shore up the trust fund, how do we actually get uh more of a return on the funds we're Thank you. Thank you for that question. So I think one of the way to get more return on the investment is the predictability of the funding. We can be more strategic.
▶ 2:46:20We apply a asset management every state DOT asset management business approach to try to determine which project to do and at what time. If you can do the right project at the right time, you can get better outcomes. And so that predictability knowing that you're going to have x amount of money coming in every year allows you and recognize that pavement conditions, bridge conditions, especially in a large state like yours, take a long-term commitment. You're starting, you need to look at trends.
▶ 2:46:47So what we did is in mid 2000s we realized at that time we didn't have enough money to maintain all of our roads at the same standard that we felt we needed to. So we stopped maintaining what we called low volume roads. We did reactive maintenance is all we did. And we showed our legislature every year that we predict with this investment this is going to be the pavement condition the trends that you're going to see. And then we told them that with a 5-cent gas tax, we could turn that condition around and start to improve it.
▶ 2:47:17And we've been able to do that with performance measures. So I think holding states and local governments accountable for outcomes, give them the flexibility to figure out how to do it, what projects to do it with, but hold them accountable for outcomes and realize that these investments in infrastructure, you have to look at trends that take a long time to turn a very large ship. So sorry, what does that accountability look like with the performance measures? I'm I'm sorry. What does the accountability look like with those performance? So, so, so for us in Utah in in this one case, we were looking at pavement condition.
▶ 2:47:48And so, we were using the the performance measure that the public sees, the seat of their pants, we call it IRI, international roughness index, but what we were actually using with the engineers in the back room was overall condition index. Looking at all the distresses within the pavement system. And we were using those that that asset management approach to predict with different investment levels what that outcome would look like. Does that make sense? Yeah. And you said but the accountability part is if if the locality doesn't meet that standard. What happens then? Yeah.
▶ 2:48:17So so you know I don't get taken to the woodshed. I I probably get fired. Um but for my legislature every year we're reporting how we're doing with that investment. So reporting on safety, pavement condition, bridge condition, and it's in mobility. We're looking at delays. All of those things are take place on almost on a monthly basis with my legislature and that's really I think the accountability process where they're making sure we're investing all the dollars, the state dollars and the federal dollars to get the best outcomes. That's very helpful.
▶ 2:48:47Thank you. And Mr. Johnson, do you have anything you wanted to add? Sure. Yeah, I I agree with Mr. Beris. It definitely falls on the state DOS and they need predictable funding so that they can plan the maintenance operations and they can they can prioritize which projects are most important so they can get them on on schedule and they can hold those schedules because delaying schedules does nothing but make congestion worse and the cost go up. Thank you very much. I yield back. Mr. Owens, you're recognized.
▶ 2:49:21Thank you chairs chair rouser and ranking member general Nordon uh our witnesses today for joining us. Uh for nearly 70 years the highway trust fund has connected our communities and facilitated the internet interstate commerce that's made America the economic envy of the world. However, for too long we've kicked this uh highway trust fund solveny down the road as it is a problem that will not go away and it hasn't.
▶ 2:49:47In Utah's fourth district, one of the fast growing regions in the country, in infrastructure projects are meticulously studied, planned, and executed sometimes decades in advance. To support these projects and other across the country, this community must pursue predictable, reliable, and fiscally responsible solutions that empower states and support innovation. Mr. Baracus, uh, it's an honor again to host you today. uh your presence today reflects your outstanding leadership at UD do and Utah's role as the national leader innovation and infrastructure solutions.
▶ 2:50:18Uh could you please share the comm with the committee what action the state of Utah has taken to shore up its transportation funding over the over the past years particularly as the state's population has grown. Thank you. Thank you for that question, Congressman. So in the state of Utah, we we rely heavily on the federal program. it makes up just under 18% of our total funding for a $2.5 billion um um budget is what we manage in the state of Utah.
▶ 2:50:46So we're compared to a lot of states, we're a relatively small state by population. We're a large geographic state, but we're a very urban state as well. And so what the the federal program is critical. We use that mostly almost exclusively to take care of our pavements and our bridges, our federal program. And then we use the state's gas tax money to operate the system and also do things like install traffic signals, turn lanes, passing lanes, those type, I'll call them operational fixes.
▶ 2:51:14And then we use the state general sales tax. 27.5% of the statewide general sales tax where the legislators determined there's a nexus. So we've been talking a lot about user fees here. The legislature determined there's a nexus between the vehicle sales of sales of vehicles and uh vehicle related services and they c that was the nexus that they used to establish the percentage and that percentage is used for capacity projects and we use it for highway capacity projects as well as transit
▶ 2:51:45capacity projects as well as active transportation projects that we're doing around the state. And so that's kind of the funding. Um, you know, we also have aviation, rural transit program, and other funding pieces, but that's the major solutions that our legislature has because if we're going to continue to grow, transportation is one of those foundational elements to our quality of life and our economy. Okay.
▶ 2:52:12Uh, and could you also please outline what would mean for the state of Utah if the Congress does not address the long-term solveny of the high trust highway trust Yes. Sorry, sir. Was it how would we propose addressing? Yeah. If if we don't um what would it mean to our state if the Congress does not address this long-term sol problem? Yeah. Thank you for that. So, every state develops what we call a five-year STIP, statewide transportation improvement program.
▶ 2:52:40And so, here the the IJ is about to expire here in September of 26. We all are making decisions because we have five years of projects because we have to get the projects ready to go. We're all making guesses of what Congress is going to do in terms of what your funding level is going to be. I have chosen to be conservative and I've programmed flat. So, I've taken the last year of funding for IJ and I'm assuming we're going to at least have a flat budget because basically the STIP is a commitment of projects.
▶ 2:53:10It's a promise that I'm making to our citizens that we're going to deliver those projects. So, if Congress, you know, brings more money in, I'm going to scramble to find the projects to fill that up. If Congress does not fund it at that last level, then we're going to be cutting projects. We don't cut them, we push them back. We delay those projects. And so, that's why it's critical if we want projects, if we want to deliver projects on time, at the best cost, and get the best outcomes, we need to have that predictability.
▶ 2:53:40And I would suggest that funding the formula programs provide the states the best predictability to be able to get projects out. So our partners, the contractors, the consultants, they need to plan. They need to have predictability to make the investments they need to deliver the projects that we ask them to do. Well, thank you. Um, I just want to kind of wrap up by saying, uh, I've made the point as often I can that Utah should be the model. We innovate, we we uh we grow, we collaborate like no other state in the union.
▶ 2:54:10So hope they take my advice and uh use Utah as that that example. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Um are there any other questions for members who have not yet had the opportunity to uh ask? I don't see any. And um therefore, I want to thank our witnesses. I appreciate uh your testimony today. very helpful, very instructive, a lot of good uh dialogue here that will be very helpful as we move forward.
▶ 2:54:39Uh so with that, subcommittee stands adjourned.