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▶ 0:18:10the committee will come to order we are here today to continue this committee's ongoing efforts to support American taxpayers particularly those impacted by natural disasters last year thanks to the leadership of Congressman stuie the Ways and Means Committee Advanced legislation to provide tax relief to victims of natural disasters including families affected by 300 different disasters in 45 States most
▶ 0:18:40everyone on this dis could list natural disasters that have recently affected their home state there are several members here today who represent communities where folks are just beginning to return home and clear debris for most Americans filing taxes is a headache for these disaster victims the process can be even more of a burden they are right rightly focused on putting a roof over their head not sifting through paperwork
▶ 0:19:11that may have been damaged or destroyed in order to meet a tax deadline our first two bills will help these folks focus on their rightful number one priority rebuilding and restoring what was lost our first bill from Representatives Murphy and Panetta injects common sense into tax filing dates Federal disaster declarations often result in postponement of the deadline for those impacted to file and pay taxes
▶ 0:19:42understandably some taxpayers living in a disaster area choose to file their taxes and wait to pay the tax so they can replace the items they've lost however while taxpayers who receive an extension from the IRS also receive receive additional time to claim a tax credit or refund the same additional time is currently not afforded to taxpayers who file and pay their taxes due to a postponed filing date
▶ 0:20:12from the IRS such as occurs after a natural disaster this bill provides a common sense solution that would fix this issue so that victims of natural disasters have additional time to claim a refund in the same way that those who request a filing extension receive additional time next we are helping disaster victims receive desperately needed tax relief sooner rather than later for too many Americans
▶ 0:20:42help from the Federal Government after a natural disaster can take too much time to arrive this bipartisan bill from representatives kustoff and Chu authorizes the treasury Department in consultation with FEMA to postpone tax filing deadline lines for Americans living in state declared disaster areas just as they do for federally declared disasters if a state moves faster in declaring an emergency the treasury Department can
▶ 0:21:12more quickly provide relief lastly we will consider legislation to repeal a rule that could stifle America's digital asset leadership the irs's defi broker rule which this joint resolution from Congress carry repels is such an example the IRS stretched its its directives from Congress in the 2021 infrastructure law to enact a cryptocurrency agenda and unnecessarily
▶ 0:21:42regulate the pro providers of digital wallets the winners of this last minute role are foreign digital asset companies who are exempt from the burdensome requirements the losers are the roughly one in four American Americans who own cryptocurrency not only is it unfair but unworkable defi Brokers do not even collect the information from users needed to implement
▶ 0:22:12this rule former IRS commissioner Charles reading publicly stated that this regulation would create a blizzard of paperwork that the IRS can neither handle nor administer in an efficient and effective way way given the importance of protecting and asserting congress's article one Authority I hope we can achieve bipartisan support here in undoing a policy that went beyond the letter of the law the bills before us today
▶ 0:22:42Advanced the interest of American taxpayers and I encourage all of my colleagues to support them I'm now pleased to recognize the ranking member from Massachusetts Mr nil for's opening statement thank you Mr chairman while we are supportive of the argument here about natural disasters I think it requires me this morning to speak about what is deemed an unnatural disaster and that's the pretense that we are entertaining business as usual when in fact it's anything but
▶ 0:23:13our colleagues on the other side seek to gut health care and food assistance to wiggle out enough room for massive handouts to people who really don't need it and haven't asked for it in our tax code allowing the richest people in the world to Rifle through America's most sensitive data recalling that privacy is next to Liberty they want us to sit idly by Mark up a couple of bills and witness it as it happens we intend to draw attention to what's happening
▶ 0:23:43crisis across the federal government are underway and Democrats on the committee are going to continue to fight and fight and argue with our Republican colleagues so that we might have sensible solutions to put to the American people yesterday in the debate on the floor what caught my attention was the suggestion from a friend and a member on the other side who said that the tax bill was really about saving $1,700 a year for a family of four safe to say we're in we'll go along with
▶ 0:24:13that and leave it at that but we all know that's not what this is about this is about a tax cut for the wealthiest Among Us people who don't need it and as I noted earlier haven't asked for it we went home for four n days and we certainly heard the resounding voice of Americans about those who are unelected and certainly unqualified and unaccountable as they pursue sensitive tax data and Health Care information while forcing out dedicated public servants
▶ 0:24:43this is happening in every congressional district across the country at Town Halls across the country the message has been ferocious the American people want to protect Medicaid Social Security their personal information and certainly medic care the polling result is the same everywhere and it is consistent you would think that this outcry would give our colleagues sometime to pause perhaps to say how could we find some certain agreements but the decision has been made to double down on ignoring
▶ 0:25:14the American people's fears we need to get a straight answer on what this means for Medicaid Medicare and Social Security we've heard all kinds of Numbers number one they won't touch Medicaid president has said we're not going to touch Medicaid in the next bre bre key players chairman of committee another committee has said $880 billion how about cutting snap as well do the math these are dollar Ford dooll transfers all for the purpose of reversed Robin Hood we're going to help the rich at
▶ 0:25:44the expense of those who are not rich the extreme agenda is causing Americans much angst uncertainty and chaos is growing consumer sentiment is already plunged by 10% the cost of eggs which we heard a lot about is now almost at $10 a dozen with no end in sight look at the tax filing numbers remember this this morning an essential understanding it was commissioner redig a republican who asked for the money to upgrade
▶ 0:26:14the IRS primarily for the purposes of Technology recent conversations I've had with new appointees at the treasury they've all indicated that they want to use AI more and more fine idea but not laying off thousands and thousands of IRS employees at the very time that the American people are filing their tax forms the Dodge Purge at the IRS has led to lower filing rates already this year people are scared that their personal information is
▶ 0:26:44being leaked or could be leaked and those who are putting their hands on this personal business have no reason to do so and certainly shouldn't be harvesting that information the point of marking up bills aimed at the IRS is being done as if there's no quarrel out there that is simply not true the president's cruelty and endangering the health and economic well-being of our nation is apparent while this happens not one Republican has appeared to
▶ 0:27:14bat an ie or even more importantly based on our constitutional responsibility to even ask a question we are instead working to loot the American people who need these I believe very important considerations as it relates to health care and retirement savings let's give a boost to the American middle class let's refrain from the commentary and the chaotic nature of what is being proposed and apparently being embraced by our colleagues
▶ 0:27:45we as Democrats on the committee are going to insist and continue to make reference to what we believe is a unnecessary dislocation of benefits that the American people have counted on and with that Mr chairman I yield back my time thank you our first bill is a disaster related extension of deadlines act sponsored by Representatives Murphy and Panetta this bipartisan legislation Builds on the work representative Mercy Murphy started last Congress
▶ 0:28:15to give taxpayers who experienced disaster emergencies such as hurricane Helen and Dr Murphy's home state of North Carolina more flexibility to meet filing and payment deadlines this issue has affected taxpayers across the country an estimated 1 million taxpayers in eight States including those in Mr Panetta's home state of California have received one of these confusing notices this legislation
▶ 0:28:45en ensures victims of natural disasters whose deadlines are postponed receive additional time to claim a refund just like taxpayers who request a filing extension on their own I want to thank Representatives Murphy and Panetta for their bipartisan work to give taxpayers impacted by disasters more flexibility and peace of mind when dealing with the IRS during such a difficult time I now recognize Mr Murphy thank
▶ 0:29:15you Mr chairman and thank you for holding this hearing on issues that are um Germaine and very very important to many many people across the country who have suffered U from natural disasters I'm proud to introduce HR 1491 the disaster related extension of deadlines act along with my good friend colleague and Congressman Jimmy Panetta I think this bill should enjoy um extreme bipartisan support this is the work that we're supposed to be doing on behalf of the American people
▶ 0:29:46I live in North Carolina North Carolina is all too familiar how devastating natural disasters can be I represent Coastal North Carolina which I hope you all will visit and come spend your money at the Outer Banks it's not a question of when it's just a question of excuse me a question of if it's a question of when rather a hurricane will have a direct hit on my district while we were fortunate in the eastern part of the state and unharmed by Hurricane Helen the historic storm decimated Western North Carolina over 30 Ines of
▶ 0:30:16rain um occurring in 18 hours it caused close to 80 billion in damage those numbers are continuing to rise and sadly enough resulted in over 100 th over 100 deaths it was the most de one of the most devastating disasters in our country's history I had the chance to go to Western North Carolina just a few days uh after the storm and I testify firsthand on the horrible damage that the hurricane caused it will take years if not a decade more or more for Western North Carolina to fully recover
▶ 0:30:46from these damages and it's important that Congress now works to provide as much relief as possible to these victims this is not a republican issue this is not a Democrat issue this is a national issue hr1 1491 the disaster related extension of deadlines act has two important Provisions that will not only help those impacted by Hurricane Helen but also dister disaster to victims as I'm sure we he also from the California wildfires the first provision amends the look back period to ensure victims
▶ 0:31:17of disasters have additional time to reclaim funds or credits that they have previously previously missed out on obviously these folks are Dev devastated not only by their homes but but financially and this is a very critical um insertion uh in the tax code of what should be able to help them additionally HR 1491 contains another provision that will prevent disaster victims receiving collection notices indicating that they owe the IRS funds despite a postponement of tax filing when someone
▶ 0:31:47suffers from a natural disaster the last thing on their mind is their tax liability is trying to put a roof over the head food for their family and clothing for their children case of hurricane alen we saw thousands of homes and businesses literally washed out and wiped out overnight we're talking about entire towns that were destroyed washed away victims are still processing the trauma of the damage lost lives we must we must ensure the tax code does not burden these victims any more than they have already
▶ 0:32:17suffered I want to thank again Congressman Panetta for his partnership on this bill this is the serious business of Congress I hope that my colleagues will stay on task and talk about this Bill and vote in favor on it thank you Mr chairman I'll yield back I now recognize the ranking member from Massachusetts Mr nil for an opening statement out standing thank you uh ranking member Neil of course thank you Mr chairman and yes definitely thank you to Congressman Greg Murphy
▶ 0:32:47who has been a partner on a number of issues because he is a serious legislator although he may not take himself too seriously sometimes he does take this work very seriously and that's exactly why I like working with him uh the disaster related extension of deadlines act ensures that tax deadlines remain a line for disaster zones and those who have survived natural disasters are not penalized by confusing collection notices or a shortened tax lookback period currently taxpayers
▶ 0:33:18have a three-year lookback period after a filing deadline to claim or refund or or mis credits however when the IRS extends filing deadlines for those affected by natural disasters the deadline for the look back period is not extended this leads taxpayers in disaster areas to lose out on money they are owed because their lookback period is shorter than expected this bill would fix that by aligning the look back period with the postponed tax deadline for disaster zones additionally this
▶ 0:33:48bill solves a problem of misaligned deadlines triggering confusing collection notices after a natural disaster because current Law requires the IR s to send a notice in demand for payment of tax within 60 days of processing a tax filing individuals in a disaster Zone who file early but wait to pay often receive very confusing notices and demands for payment these notices are sent long before the payment is due and cause panic and cause
▶ 0:34:18confusion during a very very difficult time and the difficult task of Disaster Recovery fortunately this bill would require the IRS to take into account tax deadlines postponed because of disasters when issuing collection notices it can take years to financially recover from a natural disaster ensuring those recovering can claim what they are owed and do not have to worry about confusing collection notices really is the least that we can do as you said
▶ 0:34:48Mr chairman this bill is common sense and I would say that this bill is an easy bipartisan win and the exact type of work that we should be doing more of in this committee but more importantly in the United States Congress what we are seeing though the chaotic actions of this Administration and The house's decision to push forward with a partisan budget resolution undermines our work our districts are reeling from chaotic funding freezes and the attempts to shutter programs our communities rely
▶ 0:35:18on grants for farmers and conservation teacher training critical infrastructure and Senior Services have all been affected in my district on the Central Coast of California California schools are uncertain if they will have the federal support they need nonprofits do not know if their Federal grant agreements will be honored and federal agencies that should be serving our constituents are instead Paralyzed by arbitrary firings and conflicting guidance this is happening while the house pushes through a budget that threatens to cut critical programs like Medicaid while inflating inflating
▶ 0:35:49our debt and deficit the budget resolution that the house passed yesterday tease up cuts that would be devastating for our communities in my district in the 19th congressional district of California 164,000 people rely on Medicaid including 50,000 children and 26,000 seniors it is disappointing to see speaker Mike Johnson pushed to strip benefits from our constituents while allowing the administration to the agencies meant to serve them I would hope that the Ways and Means Committee can continue to work on bills like the filing relief for natural disasters
▶ 0:36:19act that actually serve and help our constituents but in the meantime I do hope that and I will urge that all of my colle colleagues on both sides of the aisle take affirmative action to protect our constituents and vote for this bill with that Mr chairman I thank you and I back thank you the committee will now proceed to consideration of hr1 1491 the disaster related extension of deadlines Act without objection the measure will be considered as read and open for Amendment at any point
▶ 0:36:49at this time I offer an amendment in the nature of a substitute which was distributed in advance along with a green sheet explaining it without objection the amendment in the nature of a substitute shall be considered as read open for Amendment at any point and considered base text for purpose of amendment I will now turn to Tom Bartle chief of staff for the joint committee on taxation to provide the technical description of the amendment and the nature of a substitute with an emphasis on the changes made since introduction I ask that members hold their questions until after his
▶ 0:37:20presentation thank you Mr chairman the members have before them two joint committee documents jcx 1325 and jcx 1525 which describe the underlying legislation and the Chairman's amendment in nature of a substitute in brief under present law different sections of the code prescribe requirements for the timely filing of returns and for the timely filing of a claim for refund or credit the secretary has also provided Authority Under the code to extend the filing period
▶ 0:37:50in the case of natural disasters and other uh other events it may deem appropriate The Proposal before you provides that any extension for the filing period that is granted by the secretary is also treated as an extension of time for filing a claim for refund or credit and in addition it likewise clarifies that the payment date in the case of an assessment uh sent to the uh taxpayer by notice uh for demand is also extended
▶ 0:38:20by reason of extens the extension period provided uh due to the disaster these changes would be effective for refund claims after the date of enactment and in the case of notices with respect to notices of assessment upon the date of enactment and staff of the joint committee on taxation has estimated that this would have a negligible effect upon Federal receipts um concludes my brief description uh happy to answer any questions that the members might have thank you are there any technical
▶ 0:38:50questions about the amendment of the nature of a substitute Mr nil thank you Mr chairman first I'd like to ask that uh recent essay from Seven former leaders of the IRS be included in the official record dates back to Ronald Reagan's IRS commissioner without objection thank you Mr marold the bills that we have before us today are generally about making sure the tax administration runs smoothly so let me ask you the very simple question do IRS Staffing
▶ 0:39:21levels contribute to the smooth functioning of our tax system uh Mr Mr Neil um the IRS certainly is necessary to provide for compliance and administration of the tax system thank you so to administer the very laws that we are considering here today we need to make sure that the IRS is adequately staffed can you tell me Mr barthold how many employees the IRS had at the end of 2021 at the end of 202 one
▶ 0:39:51the uh IRS uh produces a Data Book uh uh Mr Neil and it reports that at the beginning of fiscal 2022 so that would be the end of 2021 uh there were 79,80 employees thank you almost 880,000 employees how does that compare to the number of employees the IRS had at the end of 2010 uh the end of 2010 uh was a uh higher number it was uh above 90 uh somewhere above 990,000 95,000
▶ 0:40:21is the correct answer thank you Mr barthold on that so let's speak to that significant drop in the headcount all while the filings were going up and so what did the inflation reduction act do it gave the Internal Revenue Service the funds to bring in more man and woman power and in fact last year the IRS projected that it would have about 990,000 employees a number that they had in 2010 a number that they had in 2010 so that's certainly
▶ 0:40:51less than the number of employees but rebuilding the agency has being gutted by our Republican colleagues the advances and Investments that we made are being sarily abdicated at a time when the IRS needs that very Staffing let me ask you Mr barthold is it a good idea to fire 6700 employees in the middle of the tax
▶ 0:41:22season well Mr Neil you know that I don't offer my opinions before the but you're an economist Mr barthold well it would depend upon uh an assessment of the value that the employees uh bring relative to the cost of paying the employees we appreciate that economic assertion Mr barthold your skills remain pretty good let me say Thank you Mr so we don't think it's a good idea to be cutting the IRS during
▶ 0:41:52the tax filing season it seems pretty simple to me coupled with the fact that the new secretary of the the treasury says that he likes the Investments that are being made in technology so we're making a big mistake not on the Democratic side but certainly on the Republican side as it relates to tax filing and tax collections with that let me yield back my time thank you thank you Mr doet thank you Mr chairman uh I do
▶ 0:42:22have some technical questions for you Mr barthold about disasters uh I understand the committee's desire to ignore the disasters that are occurring all around us impairing the Federal Aviation Administration impairing the national Transportation safety board impairing the Veterans Administration and impairing the internal revenue system as uh Mr Neil just noted uh one of the disasters of course has been the opening of our most personal sensitive
▶ 0:42:52data to some of the uh IRS Teena some of the teenagers that work for Doge that went to the IRS at a joint committee on taxation since you uh provide the expertise for both the house and the Senate uh have you been updated on uh how much of our personal information has been uh invaded uh uh Mr dogget I've uh received no information
▶ 0:43:23related to uh current treasury operations none whatsoever ever of course we had been told that we would have an opportunity to learn more about that and oversight hearing but no one was provided you did uh suggest I believe the people to whom we might from whom we might get that answer who would be the best people to to advise this committee uh of the extent of the damage that has been done in invading this sensitive personal information uh well Mr doet
▶ 0:43:53when uh we met in the recent markup I suggest it might be appropriate to uh speak to the Secretary of the Treasury or the acting commissioner of the IRS and of course those people are not before us today uh as we consider disasters uh unfortunately uh now my understanding is that there are times when your staff or an academic might access taxpayer data perhaps even of the same type that the teenagers from uh musk Doge
▶ 0:44:23uh interfered with it does the IRS uh just let anyone go rifle through our sensitive data the way that Doge did uh well Mr dogget I can't speak to the uh people associated with the Doge initiative but the answer to your question regarding the IRS there are uh under law as you well know restrictions on access to taxpayer return information and the IRS does not routinely let people rifle through
▶ 0:44:53that information um there is I I I know you had noted in the past academics uh the Internal Revenue Service has run a program referred to as their joint statistical research program in which academics are invited to pair with uh IRS uh uh employees on research projects that the service thinks would be valuable to them both in terms of their internal knowledge and in terms of developing
▶ 0:45:24statistical techniques for analysis of tax return data and when that happens doesn't the IRS have specific data sets that it limits access to and don't they require that uh they use IRS laptops so they can be monitored by the IRS to protect that sensitive data uh for that program for that joint statistical research uh uh project program uh the IRS requires that the academic undergo um uh a background check
▶ 0:45:54and the other checks that are required of any one hired as an IRS employee uh there are issued uh secure uh access via IRS uh laptop they are required to undertake uh training uh related to data access and disclosure uh and it actually all starts uh with a detailed proposal for the research and the specific data that they may require for This research and then it's
▶ 0:46:24the IRS that collects that data for them so it's the data is compartmentalized for the specific research project that has been outlined and of course since Doge doesn't believe in sunlight for itself and neither does Mr musk or Mr Trump we know nothing about whether any of those important safeguards to protect our data uh were uh involved here with these teenagers that went in and rifled through personal information uh and of course because we can't get anyone
▶ 0:46:54to come to this committee to explain it the public does not know let me ask you to the extent that that it's claimed that uh don't worry uh they don't have names and addresses with all this information is it still possible to link that information to specific um the uh the IRS uh and federal courts have ruled that just uh elimination uh blacking out uh name and address is insufficient uh uh
▶ 0:47:25protection uh that it's possible in the in the world particularly in the world of big data to take uh information absent names and address uh and potentially match it up to uh um uh to the taxpayer thank you very much there is a disaster here and it's this committee's failure to exercise its oversight authority to protect the privacy of every American I yield back Mr Thompson has recognized that for technical questions thank you Mr chairman thanks for having this uh hearing
▶ 0:47:55on an important issue but I'm afraid that we're fiddling while Rome is burning around us uh Mr uh bartol um Mr dog had asked about that uh safety uh layer that protects those uh those um individuals data uh were those followed uh M Mr Thompson I have no knowledge of uh how the treasury Department is is presently operating
▶ 0:48:25okay with respect to access to return information Mr barol because we're talking about um natural disasters can you describe the jobs of the employees of FEMA perform when there's a natural disaster well um Mr Thompson I'm uh I'm not really knowledgeable about how FEMA operates Beyond reading in the newspaper so not the appropriate person to ask are you aware that the Trump Administration and
▶ 0:48:55the Doge h fired 200 FEMA employees last week um Mr Thompson I've read some newspaper accounts that talk about firing across a number of different agencies including including FEMA among others are you aware that the recent GAO report found that even prior to these firings FEMA was severely understaffed to the tune of a shortfall of about 6,200 employees
▶ 0:49:27uh was unaware of that uh report Mr Thompson as someone who's had natural disasters in my district I can tell you any one of my constituents can tell you how important that femur response is and how invaluable every one of those FEMA employees were during this very tragic time Mr barthol can artificial intelligence hand out food to families who've lost their homes in a natural
▶ 0:49:57uh well again Mr Thompson not an area my area of expertise but um as artificial intelligence is software I don't imagine that it can physically hand out food and can artificial intelligence provide life-saving medicine to those who have suffered injuries as a result of a disaster again as a software system uh not directly so sir and can artificial intelligence conduct search and res resue operations
▶ 0:50:28under crumbling buildings are after a terrible flood that's washed homes and uh and Away uh again Mr Thompson the software generally not although indefensive software it might be able to help uh pinpoint areas that one should should start a search well thank you Mr barthold um and and I agree that no artificial intelligence can't do any of those things
▶ 0:50:58the fact is we need people we need real people boots on the ground to perform these vital lifesaving Services Mr chairman the bill that we're going to hear today is all well and good and I'm glad that uh last year we provided much needed disaster relief to my constituents who were impacted by terrible terribly devastating wildfires but the Trump Administration is neutering the lifeblood of our disaster relief efforts
▶ 0:51:28no member of Congress should sit idly by and watch this happen and this bill is as far as I'm concerned as I said earlier fiddling while Rome is burning a yield back are there additional qu technical questions for Mr bartold see none will move to strike the word any members wish to strike the last word Miss
▶ 0:52:00Mr thank you Mr chairman I want to commend Representatives Murphy and Panetta for introducing this Common Sense Bill if a taxpayer's filing deadline is postponed due to natural disaster then it's only fair that a three-year look back period is extended as well this is a reasonable accommodation that makes a real difference for people who are already facing very difficult circumstances and this is the kind of bipartisan work that our committee should be be doing working together to help our constituents and improving the government's
▶ 0:52:30ability to serve them more effectively unfortunately this has not been the case lately just last night this body passed a budget resolution that betrays middle class and working Americans it's a budget that rips away the social safety net from those who need it the most in a purely partisan vote House Republicans approved a budget that will make Americans sicker and poorer all to fund yet another massive tax cut for the billionaires and large corporations that don't really
▶ 0:53:01need it in my district alone the Republican budget puts more 241,000 people on Medicaid at risk of losing their health care including 92,000 children and 33,000 seniors it will also make it harder for 57,000 people in my district who rely on SNAP benefits to put food on their tables and this is happening at a time when our country is already reeling from the chaos fear and confusion caused by
▶ 0:53:31the Trump administration's funding freezes and mass firings Americans are watching as billionaires like Elon Musk and his doge Bros gleefully take a chainsaw to the very agencies that provide the critical services that millions of Americans rely on last week 7,000 IRS employees including 700 in my state of California were fired indiscriminately in just two days they are not just a number on a balance sheet these are
▶ 0:54:01real people who work in our communities and contribute to our economy like my constituent who served as the last line of defense against bird flu he and his team at the agriculture Department are responsible for stopping contaminated products from reaching stor shelves so that people don't get sick yet in the middle of a bird flu EP epidemic he and most of his team from Elsa were fired no not just fired but they were fired during a
▶ 0:54:31seizure of Tainted poultry who is going to do this important service to protect the public health now that they have been fired and they're gone and we're told that this is just the beginning that many more workers are on the chopping block Democrats are outraged and we need our Republican colleagues to join us in standing up for the rule of law and the people that they were elected to Ser to serve your con consents will be affected they are being affected and we need you to stand up for them
▶ 0:55:01and with that I yield back the balance of my time Mr Davis thank you Mr chairman I support the disaster tax bills before us today but I refuse to promote the idea of business as usual when our country is in a state of Crisis the must Trump survival of the riches assault on hardworking Americans
▶ 0:55:32is cruel and undemocratic the richest men in the world have anointed themselves Kings rejecting the rule of law and partnering with Republican leadership to decide who lives and who dies the cruel Republican budget be heartlessly will take Health Care from millions of Americans and food housing and education from
▶ 0:56:02millions of children families and workers just to line the pockets of the most secure and those of their wealthiest donors with tax breaks these cuts to the vulnerable are one: one ratio to the $1.1 trillion they will give to the top one % earning about annually
▶ 0:56:32the militia Republican budget threatens to Skyrocket the health insurance cost of 22,000 people in my congressional district alone a typical premium increase of about 40% but an expected 1.33 increase for older people all gift and earnings to over 743 th000
▶ 0:57:03a year a tax cut over 246,000 people on Medicaid are expected to lose their health care in my congressional district alone including over 102,000 children and over 27,000 seniors older than 6 5 tens of thousands of federal workers nonprofit employees higher education
▶ 0:57:33employees and health researchers are losing their jobs families are figuring out if they have to move or if their kids have to quit college to add insult to injury musk and his hackers are taking our most Private Financial and Health Data and using it however they see fit even taking
▶ 0:58:03screenshots and sending information to God knows where I refuse to sit silently and pretend that everything is normal while the self agundiz and ruthless whims of this Administration and the Republican leadership threaten economic recession and brutal hardship on the most vulnerable the Republican dogma of survival
▶ 0:58:34of the riches the idea the concept the promotion is unethical undemocratic and unamerican I thank you Mr chairman and I go back thank you Mr Thompson thank you Mr chairman uh I support this legislation and believe that victims of natural disaster uh need all the help that we can provide but make no mistake about it there's a disaster happening
▶ 0:59:04right here in Washington DC we have an unelected billionaire who has government contracts worth billions of dollars with unfettered access to agencies and the federal government and who is collecting the personal data of all Americans This is a clear conflict of interest where he can use this data as an unfair advantage over his competitors and there is no need uh for him to know the Private health records nor the financial data
▶ 0:59:35of millions of Americans our constituents are rightfully mad as hell about this and I think that my colleagues on in the Republican side of this dis I think their constituents are mad as hell about it also and uh you need to look no further than the news reports today of the Republican leadership at advising uh their members not to hold Public Town Hall meetings and I'd like to uh enter this uh news report uh for
▶ 1:00:05the record Mr chairman without objection he's also arbitrarily laying off thousands of dedicated civil servants all while while continuing to seow chaos and confusion and hurting our constituents access to Federal Services the president is encouraging this and our Republic majority is allowing it to happen as wildfires rip through the West more than 2200 FEMA and Forest Service employees
▶ 1:00:36have been fired and critical Housing and Urban Development funding used to rebuild communities after they've been decimated by natural disasters has been cut the bird flu continues to devastate egg and poultry Farms while grocery prices continue to ra to rise for our consti Ence rather than address this problem critical USDA researchers and employees tased with stopping this have been fired while our constituents
▶ 1:01:06are suffering and dying from heart disease cancer Alzheimer's all this Research into treatments has been stopped by this Administration Mr chairman this is a twom man-made disaster the president and musk it is felt in my district and it's felt in your District district and every District represented on both sides of this dis Americans are fed up with this chaos I held three town hall meetings in my district
▶ 1:01:36last week and everyone wants Congress to stop the disaster coming out of Washington DC my colleagues on the other side of the aisle voted for a budget that would devastate our country a budget that calls for $2 trillion dollar in harmful cuts to Services important to a man American families and communities these Cuts include some $880 billion from Medicaid services for seniors for the disabled
▶ 1:02:07and for children $320 billion from the snap program and uh nutrition assistance and over $330 billion um in making student loans more expensive interestingly this is about the same amount uh as the tax cut my Republican colleagues want to give for people who make over $743,000 a year the top 1% while Republicans work
▶ 1:02:37to benefit the ultra Rich the American people will suffer badly and your districts are not exempt from this make no mistake this will devastate all Americans in blue States and in red States I yield back Mr thank you Mr Speaker uh or Mr chairman uh I first want to commend uh my colleagues Dr Murphy
▶ 1:03:07and Mr petta for bringing this bill today it's a bill that is representative and responsive to our needs but speaking more broadly and frankly I'm astounded that my Republican colleagues are so indifferent to the very legitimate fears of their constituents I can't tell you how many emails phone calls letters I'm getting from constituents in Illinois who are outraged as they watch our democracy crumble Before Their Eyes Alon musk and his doge dudes are acting without oversight
▶ 1:03:37without accountability they're acting to dismantle our federal government some 30,000 federal workers have been given notice since just last month workers at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau the National Institutes of Health the Centers for Disease Control in the midst of a housing crisis reports that the administration is considering a 50% cut to the Department of Housing and Urban Development last week in the middle of filing season as countless Americans
▶ 1:04:08are waiting for their tax refunds Doge fired 6,000 IRS employees federal workers are being fired across the board not for poor performance not for the sake of efficiency but to purge the government of anyone who isn't deemed loyal enough to this president this is not about cutting waste Fraud and Abuse this is a hack job Donald Trump and Elon Musk aren't interested in finding solutions they only know how to screw things up it's
▶ 1:04:38what they do best and the American people are paying for the cost of their chaos I'm surprised by my colleagues in this room many of whom I've worked with in the past who I know are reasonable and honorable how can they cheer this chaos on and how can they sit here and act as though nothing is happening I urge my colleagues I urge my Republican colleagues to stand up to speak out to stop the chaos before it's too late thank
▶ 1:05:08you and I yield back Mr Gomez Mr chairman I move to strike the word thank you Mr chairman uh let me be clear I support efforts to improve taxpayer protections especially for victims of disasters like the recent fires that devastated Los Angeles but incredibly important items have been left off the agenda for this markup if we are trying to protect taxpayers
▶ 1:05:38our priority must be to ensure that their privacy and personal information is protected and yet for the second markup in a row Republic the Republican majority has refuse to markup or even debate Common Sense protections which would ensure Elon Musk and his team of qualified Tech Bros are prevented from accessing extremely sensitive taxpayer information for example Elon Musk Doge has pushed for access to an IRS system uh that holds private
▶ 1:06:09data on millions of Americans and for those who don't know this database contains highly sensitive information including taxpayers social security number income debts and property records granting an unelected billionaire and his team uh access to this data is not only dangerous it's potentially illegal we are letting an unelected billionaire ransack our government a a a literal Smash and grab um and the Republicans
▶ 1:06:39on this committee seem uninterested in addressing the very real threats facing taxpayers if you all are too afraid to deal with that five alarm fire there are other dumpster fires we should be addressing like the budget we debated yesterday aka the Trump tax scam 2.0 the TR the Trump and Republican budget proposal can be summed up in three simple words defraud defund and deceive first Republicans want to defraud the American taxpayer by taking
▶ 1:07:09their money and handing it out as a massive tax break for Rich billionaires like Elon Musk and huge corporations second they want to pay for trillions and tax breaks by be by defunding the social safety net millions of Working Families rely on like the Affordable Care Act Medicaid and food stamps and this doesn't just impact my district it impacts every District in the country um from West V from districts in West Virginia to Indiana to California everything every district
▶ 1:07:39will be impacted and the people that depend on these programs including kids and people with disabilities and seniors and finally they want to deceive Us by claiming that the tax cuts are uh paid for themselves won't add to the debt and that they're not cutting any of uh of these programs especially Medicaid but we know that that is not true uh and as we see that uh the plan is uh front and center at today's market business as
▶ 1:08:09usual while the whole government is burning down this is a complete betrayal of American families and we want to make sure that this is stopped my GP colleagues must stop this fraudulent scheme and do something to actually help Working Families let's work together to protect taxpayer information from unelected unaccountable billionaires let's tackle soaring uh prices on groceries instead of giving a tax break to those who don't need it let's work together to expand the child tax credit lower child
▶ 1:08:39care costs and ensure paid family for all Americans let's work to expand the construction of housing that's affordable remove discriminatory barriers to housing and increase rental and down payment assistance there's plenty of work to do and I challenge my Republicans uh colleagues to stop be uh to stop uh what they're doing let's work together get their head out of the sand and let's get back to work with that I yield back Mr do
▶ 1:09:09thank you Mr chairman I am supportive of this bill to provide some very modest relief to those who suffered a natural disaster I think uh we've all seen the horror that has occurred in California the tears the pain of families losing their home and everything they've counted on the Damage Done uh severely in North Carolina by the floods that followed a hurricane Helen and we know that today's fire in California could be tomorrow's
▶ 1:09:40wildfire in Central Texas or the hurricane in North Carolina the damage there could be a hurricane coming in off the Gulf of Mexico into Texas uh and causing devastating impact as it h as we have had in years past and the fact that these disasters can occur all over the country uh demonstrates one of the the primary failures of the Trump musk approach of trying to abolish FEMA and replace
▶ 1:10:10it with the states doing these matters if the states could handle all of these disasters on their own we would have never set up a Federal Emergency Management agency in the first place these are National problems and it is good for us to to come together and try to solve them and offer National support uh for those who experien these disasters knowing that your disaster today may be mine tomorrow of course the second uh failure uh involved
▶ 1:10:40with these disasters is the failure to recognize science which couldn't be clearer that whether it's a hurricane or wildfires these are being uh intensified and impacted by the climate crisis this committee under Democratic Leadership attempted to provide some modest response concerning the climate crisis and all that our Republican colleagues are doing uh after they did everything they could to block those uh proposals that have had some
▶ 1:11:10good impact uh is to uh deny uh any further action in addressing the climate crisis we're providing uh some Grace to taxpayers here but I'm afraid that mother nature doesn't provide Grace To Us much longer in addressing the severe impact of the climate crisis there are as my colleagues have noted uh disasters occurring all around us disasters that affect air safety disasters that affect veterans
▶ 1:11:41who went to work and as public servants again having protected our country serving our country here in a number of federal agencies a number uh a significant number of our federal public servants serve first protecting our country as veterans and many of them receive a notice in the by email that they've been fired not because they failed to do their job but because of the desire to have uh some numbers on the wall a body
▶ 1:12:11count of federal employees that are no longer employed that have been fired they have been abused publicly these public servants that uh are doing what they can to help the rest of us in in vital Federal Public Services uh they've been accused of uh in fact by one of our colleagues of having no right to a paycheck I thought that perhaps uh Mr musk uh five things you did last week should have been first applied to the Republican members of
▶ 1:12:41this Congress who draw a federal paycheck to ask them what they've done uh to advance the needs of our country and meet the needs of our people because while there are disasters of natural making of an unnatural making which the chair Mr Neil referred to earlier I think the biggest disaster of all is silence just silence silence when the United States joins with new friends North Korea and Russia
▶ 1:13:12against the overwhelming majority of the world silence when veterans no longer find that they have employment and public service silence when proposals are made to wreck our health care System that silence is deafening overall I believe that the musk Doge program is nothing but a sideshow of deception and lies in a multi-ring circus it's designed to distract America
▶ 1:13:42because they won't come here and they won't tell the public where are these examples of fraud you f found if you found fraud why not bring it to the attention of the justice department and prosecute it where are the examples of waste that you have found surely there must be some but they've not provided the evidence and they fear coming here just as our Republican colleagues apparently fear seeing their own constituents to explain their silence I back Mr Smith
▶ 1:14:12thank you Mr chairman uh thank you to all of our colleagues here I think uh sticking to the objective of the markup uh hopefully we'll get to that uh but I I do want to point out a few things just based on the com ments that I've heard you know was mentioned that the IRS is without a whole bunch of employees to make Americans lives better uh have to say that per the directive of the IRS any employees that any of the IRS employee actions it involves none of
▶ 1:14:42those working on the current current filing season I think that's important to note uh we we probably could have multiple hearings on what else needs to be done over there but also I want to sub submit for the record Mr chairman and I would ask unanimous consent uh to submit for the record an article there several of these highlighting this but this particular headline says Warren Buffett hailes birkshire hathways record 26.8 billion doll
▶ 1:15:12tax payment that's billion with a B A and A record tax payment under current tcja policies and then he also tells the government to spend it wisely now I don't want to try to speak for Mr Buffett uh but I I think that's probably pretty decent advice and uh speaking for myself that's what we're trying to do we're trying to do right by the American people hardworking taxpayers doing everything they're supposed to be doing to make a better life for themselves
▶ 1:15:42and what we've seen over time is a growth in government that H has become so burdensome to businesses that they can't operate or that that tends to push push offshore we can do better and I I have to say that uh give given Mr musk's uh activities I I find it far more transparent than what we saw for four years with many of my constituents
▶ 1:16:13wondering who's making these decisions at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and and the fact that I mean things would happen that just still I I I'm questioning how how could that happen or not happen and uh so I I think we owe the American people a good exchange here of ideas and and debate we'll have disagreements that's our job let Let's uh let's Elevate the debate so that we can have a a a good exchange as the American people
▶ 1:16:44would expect us to and quite honestly they deserve thank you I yield back Mr Larson thank you uh Mr chairman um first and foremost I want to commend Dr Murphy and U also uh Jim Panetta for their incredible work that they've done and uh would uh concur with my colleague that this is uh always vital and important work
▶ 1:17:14when we can work together uh I think most of you know what I'm going to say next that I uh I think that uh social security the nation's number one any poverty program for the elderly and the number one any poverty program for children is long overdue for the committee of cognizance to step up step forward put out your best idea and vote uh to have close to 70
▶ 1:17:44million people who rely on Social Security benefits and to see what Mr musk is threatening to do and the way out of whack I hope as we've sent letters and requests that uh Mr musk come before our committee and answer you know straightforward questions from the committee of cognisance um seems like he's a capable enough person to be able to
▶ 1:18:15withstand questions from uh the committee of cognizance and uh nobody asked those questions better than U Mr Thompson and so I yield to him uh my uh time uh thank you uh Mr lson uh Mr Smith um from Nebraska I I have a question you said that none of the uh employees being laid off at IRS are the ones that are going to uh any
▶ 1:18:45way uh disrupt the filings and the returns of our tax records that's my how do you know that because uh we you know we've tried to find out who these folks are uh we're not able to get uh any Witnesses from the agencies where these cuts are are taking place as you've heard from a number of people um musk won't come in and and meet with us I I've heard a lot of I've seen a lot of
▶ 1:19:15examples in my district uh where research scientist working on uh cancer Alzheimer's spinabifida um smoke taint and agriculture have all lost their jobs but um I I haven't seen documentation uh from this Administration on exactly who's losing their jobs I know a an Intel uh employee 20-year Intel officer uh lost her
▶ 1:19:45job um that that's because she was a constituent of mine and and and and let me know uh but we've seen no l from anybody and what jobs have been terminated what employees have been uh terminated we've seen no list of this so-called waste Fraud and Abuse uh that has been uh fared out as Mr doet said if fraud take them to court file charges let's lock them up if there's
▶ 1:20:16uh if there's this great finding of uh of monies that uh are that are out there that some are claiming uh tell us what they are the only thing that I've seen is the one claim for $8 billion that was found turned out to be $8 million um I've seen you know contracts that have been cancelled for uh space in in federal Offices that are now uh going to be filled um with employees
▶ 1:20:46that are bringing brought back being brought back from uh working from from home but we've seen those specifics I'd be interested to know Mr Smith where you're getting your information so this side of the dis can have access to that as well and I yield to you uh it's my understanding that the treasury secretary has issued the directive that it should not impede the tax filing season and uh as you know there is uh currently underway an effort to compile
▶ 1:21:16more information about what all uh employees are doing uh we know that there's been significant push back even you're reclaiming my time return to work order reclaiming my time uh thank you for for that explanation but I think one thing that everybody on this dis uh irrespective of party stripe can agree on that before we augmented the IRS uh staff uh our district offices and our District
▶ 1:21:46employees had a real tough time advocating for our constituents when we were working with uh that particular Federal uh agency because there was such a shortage of staff and my district offices tell me that it's much easier since we took that positive effort now to come back and to lay all these folks off uh I am concerned and so I'm looking forward to seeing those numbers that you talk about Mr Smith thank you and I'll you back Mr
▶ 1:22:18smucker thank you Mr chairman I also support this bill I think it's um just a small Rel belief that can be provided for individuals who have seen the impact of disaster in in their area I'd like to thank Dr Murphy uh for his work on this bill uh I also want to address uh some of the comments uh some of the hyperbole that we've heard uh from the other side here this morning and I think Democrats may be speaking for their constituents
▶ 1:22:49I don't know but they're certainly not speaking for the majority of my in regards to how they view what Trump is doing and what Elon Musk is doing uh cons my constituents uh uh elected president Trump by a considerable margin because they wanted an individual who was willing to shake things up in Washington DC they had this feeling this hunch that the American government no longer
▶ 1:23:19is working for them as it should uh and that it has become this bureaucracy uh that with the with much waste uh and fraud in the system uh so they elected a President Who uh they wanted to be disruptive the president chose an individual in Elon Musk who has experience uh turning companies around and building companies
▶ 1:23:49uh and I just want to remind everyone that the America is essentially bankrupt uh in this particular fiscal year we're taking in 5 trillion in revenue and spending 7 trillion that $2 trillion deficit is projected to continue forever no end to that in sight and we will be adding to our 37 almost 37 trillion in debt
▶ 1:24:20uh by another about 25 trillion in the next uh 10 years if we don't change course so the majority of my constituents love what they're seeing coming out of Doge they think this is overdue uh and I think the majority of the American people as well the latest polling uh approval ratings for Trump are above 50% and people people uh like what he's doing
▶ 1:24:50and like what uh Elon Musk is doing and I want to remind uh listeners as well uh there's been a lot of hyperbole about the budget resolution uh a lot of falsehoods about the budget resolution that was just uh passed uh and I want to remind that opposition to extending the tax cuts and jobs Act tax uh Provisions that will expire at the end of 2025 Democrat opposition to that uh means that they are opposed to a 22%
▶ 1:25:21tax hike on the average taxpayer they opposed a 22% tax heke on the average taxpayer tell me how that is helpful to the American people they also oppose cutting uh the standard deduction and the child tax credit in half that is what Democrats are arguing for increase taxes on everyday Americans cut the standard deduction in half and cut the child tax credit credit in half
▶ 1:25:51that is what will happen if we don't continue on uh and pass into law of budget reconciliation that extends those Provisions one other charge that we're hearing that I'd like to address Democrats continue to say that this bill will only help the rich uh and doesn't help everyday Americans as I said I want to remind individuals that since the tax cuts and jobs Act was passed
▶ 1:26:21our system of Taxation has become more Progressive what do I mean by that that means as a percentage the richest taxpayers are paying a greater share of our total taxes not less that's very important to understand the richest taxpayers are paying more as a percentage of our total taxes than they were prior to tcja and in fact that would flip to the reverse if we don't extend the tax cuts and I'll
▶ 1:26:51just give you a couple other figures the uh top 1% the amount of tax that the top 1% pays was 40.4 this is of all taxes uh collected the top 1% pays 40.4 paid 40.4% in 2022 uh which is up from 33% in 2001 so this has been a trend top taxpayers are paying more as a share of
▶ 1:27:22the total revenue uh than they have previously in fact roughly 40% of taxpayers have no tax liability at all 40% uh and many of those receive money they literally receive money from um from the IRS uh another statistic top 50% of all taxpayers pay 97% of all federal income taxes while the bottom 50% pay the remaining 3% so don't
▶ 1:27:52tell me that this is not that this is a bill that helps the rich only this is a bill that will affect every middle inome American that's what Democrats are arguing for thank you I yield back the gentleman yields back Miss plasket is recognized to strike the last word thank you Mr chairman um first let's just talk about Elon Musk and his use of our federal government as he runs business the federal government is not a business
▶ 1:28:23one cannot and I I've worked in private Equity I've been counsel to a private Equity Firm and you can destroy a business and then move on to the next one and the minimal damage is to the individuals who maybe work there or the supply chain or whatever that business was but that's not the federal government he doesn't always have the best record but having a lot of money sure allows you to have failures in business and continue to fail up um whether it's open
▶ 1:28:53AI neuralink uh boring company there are so many times when Elon Musk has failed and I'd submit for the record a New York Times article that came out Doge quietly deletes the five biggest spending cuts it celebrated last week and in that article it talks about the erroneous uh amounts of savings that he says he has 655 million in cuts to us Aid that was quietly changed to 18
▶ 1:29:23million ion from 655 million that he originally listed uh 3 232 million in cuts of Social Security Administration eventually being removed as well along with immigration Customs Enforcement so let's not pretend that this is an individual who working through the federal government is necessarily going to do what's right and pillage uh our federal system and then move on to
▶ 1:29:53the the next country maybe uh will be the next thing that he moves on to when this one works or fails or doesn't but I'd like to yield the balance of my time to Mr Gomez I know that he wanted to speak about something Miss plaset are you submitting in the article for the record yes sir without objection so ordered thank you thank you very much Mr is recognized for the remainder at the time yeah uh thank you Mr chair um the chairman uh submitted a letter for the record from Warren Buffett um
▶ 1:30:24that was to his stakeholders uh this year in 2025 I kind of want to add something to it everybody should read the letter I think it is a fascinating uh letter um but there's a couple points that I want to highlight that Mr Buffett made he goes Charlie and I have have always a acknowledged birkshire would not have achieved its result in any local except America whereas America would have been every bit the success it has been if Berkshire had never never
▶ 1:30:54existed right underneath he goes so thank you Uncle Sam someday your nieces and nephews at Berkshire hope to send you even larger payments than we did in 2024 spend it wisely take care of the many who for no fault of their own get the short straws in life they deserve better and never forget that we need to maintain a stable currency and that results requires both wisdom and vigilance
▶ 1:31:24on your part end quote the reason why this is such a big deal is like they if you look at how much they pay in taxes they pay a for an average person like me a lot and a high percentage of a lot of the like I think it's 5% of all corporate taxes but what did they say they say we want to pay more in 2024 because of our success and be and we're happy to do it as long as you're taking care of the people who are
▶ 1:31:55most in need the ones that for for no fault of their own were were born into a zip code or into a family or into a circumstance what I call that I called it the randomness of birth right the fact that if somebody's born in a certain part of the country or to a certain family they don't control that but often times their their opportunities of success are limited just because of that reason just because they're born in certain parts of the country just because they're born to certain individuals ual like
▶ 1:32:25I recognize that a person who's born to a rich family has no control over that either but the ones that we want to take care of the ones we want to help are the ones that are um that are less likely to succeed those are the ones that you know they don't always get the break to go to the best school they don't their parents are working four or five jobs if they have a job they don't have health uh health insurance that's what this debate is about for me that is what the debate is about is to to fight for
▶ 1:32:55a system that uh makes sure that no matter where you're born you have an opportunity to succeed in this country and you know what uh out of all countries we we're still the best one but we don't want to go backwards we want to go forward with that I yield back gentleman yields I now recognize any anyone else wishing to strike the last word are there any amendments
▶ 1:33:25Miss Moore is recognized to strike the last word for five minutes thank you so much I may as well strike the last word um I've heard a lot here today and I do agree I'm going to vote for The Spill that would certainly uh support people who have uh found themselves uh afflicted by natural disasters I listen very carefully to the uh budget resolution debate yesterday
▶ 1:33:56and listen to the debate here today and I couldn't resist sort of picking up on some of the things that I think are very misleading um you know I have heard over and over again I you know Mr smucker you say that your constituents are just fine they're not complaining well maybe you should answer my phones my constituents are certainly complaining about what is going on now and they want to know what are doing um
▶ 1:34:26they are very critical of us as Democrats and saying we aren't doing enough to stop this unelected billionaire uh from from really stealing uh the treasury but I tell you that they have had a lot Elon Musk and president Trump couldn't do what they were not doing were it not for the majority here really covering them with uh facius arguments that they are making to support this budget
▶ 1:34:56resolution and I'm just going to briefly talk about a few of them since my time is limited the first false premise that really is like a fingernail scratching on a Blackboard is that everybody's taxes are going to go up if you don't support an extension of the tax cuts and jobs act well Republicans have rejected Amendment after amendment that would have permitted us to support say d continuing the the doubling of the standard deduction
▶ 1:35:27uh that would provide monies for the child tax credit expansion without exploding the deficit with $4.5 trillion doll worth of of of tax cuts in total for wealthy corporations and Wealthy individuals so this notion that this that everybody's taxes is going to go up unless we enrich the rich is false fallacy really is is to is to mislead people about the
▶ 1:35:57distributional effects of this tax bill I heard argument after argument yesterday uh where people were clear to clothe their arguments about the returns to voters with the words on average so in other words you could have somebody you know getting a $200,000 tax break one person and then 95 more people getting a $1
▶ 1:36:27tax break and on average they'd be getting $2,000 tax breaks that the argument was replete with that fallacy and people literally will get crumbs from the master's table if they pass this budget resolution then the notion that these tax cuts pay for themselves that they increase our GDP that has been proven over disproven over and over and over again
▶ 1:36:57as a matter of fact the CBO the conservative committee for a responsible federal budget you guys know Douglas Holtz eeken um the um chair now or president of the American action Forum even these people admit that tax breaks are expenditures they are not things that really increase the GDP as their promise and the thing that is most egregious to me is the liee straight up lie
▶ 1:37:27that we have been telling people particularly to vulnerable Republicans you know you're not voting to cut Medicaid these are just budget instructions this is just to inform the Committees of what they ought to do if you send a budget instruction to the Energy and Commerce Committee to cut $880 billion how are you going to do that without cutting Medicaid
▶ 1:37:58that's just a lie and you know I I think Mark Twain was the one that popularized the term you know that there are three kind of Lies there's lies damn lies and there are statistics and I um I think that uh that we have seen uh a production of this bill that tricks and fools attempts to fool our constituents into thinking that if we just cut veterans benefits and if we just
▶ 1:38:29cut Medicaid and we cut food stamps and fire everybody then somehow they're going to be better off you know you know these people are not stupid and I would yield back and thank you for Indulgence my colleague yields back I now recognize Mr Estus to strike the last word well thank thank you chairman um I'd like to yield to uh Mr smucker Mr Smucker's right recognized for 5 minutes I'd like to thank Mr Estus for yielding I just wanted to respond
▶ 1:38:59to the comment by Miss Moore who put words in my mouth that I didn't say um you said that my constituents are just fine and are not complaining no I didn't say that I said a majority of my constituents support the work that doge is doing I'm not saying I'm not getting some complaints because there will be pain that comes with that and I'm not saying that all of my constituents are fine but I can tell you that a majority of my constituents believe that the work that the president is doing
▶ 1:39:29the work that doge is doing is long overdue they see it and I see it as a sort of uh company restructuring when a company's about to go bankrupt well the gentlemen you know sure just just briefly what is our job if do is finding waste Fraud and Abuse and they're making decisions about Appropriations article one functions why do we even need a Congress and I would yield back to sir sure well I mean obviously the President should be responsible to
▶ 1:39:59ensure that the Executive Branch the Departments are operating efficiently uh and many presidents have tried to fight back against the bureaucracy we finally have one who is determined to make a a difference and ensure that government operates uh differently remember even if there are $2 trillion in savings found reductions in spending that is just in projected spending today we are
▶ 1:40:30spending uh7 trillion that number is expected to go up to 10.5 trillion well above more than double the rate of inflation in the next 10 years completely unsustainable cannot continue without having a sovereign debt crisis or some other e uh economic event that will affect every American it uh affect their standard of living at every area I do want to address also
▶ 1:41:00uh Miss Moore a comment that you made um saying that it's false or um that everybody's taxes will go up if we don't extend uh the tax cuts and jobs act Provisions that will expire at the end of this year that is false every individual who currently pays taxes on our current tax structure will see an increase in their taxes at the end of 2025 if we don't extend it every individual will see
▶ 1:41:30an increase in their taxes and middle inome Americans will see a higher percentage increase than higher earners than the top 1% and other high income earners that is just the fact so again to those listening remember that Democrats today are arguing for an increase for every American that would amount to 22% for average middle income Americans
▶ 1:42:00you're also arguing for a a reduction by 50% in the child tax credits and a reduction in the standard deduction by 50% that's just the facts well gentlemen just yield for a second I just want to ask Mr Barto sure briefly do you agree with what he's saying that every taxpayer if we don't extend it we'll see get a tax increase uh we are in strike the last word mode here I I'd be happy to have him answer that question Mr chairman if we can this is Mr smucker
▶ 1:42:31time do you agree with what he's saying the next the next phase uh would be more appr m is Mr Schmucker yielding to my question I was happy to have him answer but we can do it next time the facts are uh what they are but we're going to continue to have this discussion but the the the amount of of falsehood hyperbole uh and and the lack of understanding about where we are fiscally in this country that we're hearing today
▶ 1:43:02uh it's just there's just so much falsehoods that are being shared here so with that I'll use now I agree that right on uh this is still your time Mr smucker yeah Mr are youing your I wanted to follow up just on one one comment I mean one of the things we've seen and I I know there's lots of numbers being thrown around but uh we have seen since 2017 federal tax receipts have gone up 48% so we've actually seen success
▶ 1:43:32from a combination of the tax cuts and jobs act plus some of the regulatory reform that came during the uh president Trump's first term that actually have benefited our tax revenue more so than what the the JCT and and CBO had estimated uh prior to 2017 so with that I yield back Mr chairman the gentleman yields back uh Dr Murphy is recognized to strike the last word recognized for five minutes thank you Mr
▶ 1:44:03chairman I I appreciate everybody's sounds like it's going to be unanimous support for the bill that's actually if I recall that's what we're doing here today um so I I appreciate that uh you know it's interesting this morning a couple of my staff members had a hard time getting in because of the traffic you know gosh it's amazing it's wonderful to see people coming back to work work you know the CMS parking lot had more people protesting in it two weeks ago than they have been in the last four years we are being crushed under our debt
▶ 1:44:33and I think our Democratic colleagues understand that um you know if it's one thing I've learned there's a difference in opinion on in in five years of being here on how we approach things I think one side loves to appeal to emotions and um feelings and we also have another side where we actually have to deal with what the reality is are SNAP benefits the Schumer Pelosi and whoever was running things in the White House added 400 calories needless calories to SNAP benefits
▶ 1:45:03these are making our kids infinitely more less healthy and actually reform in that system where we're giving the kids the nutrition they need not the calories just necessarily is critically important to what's happening in snap calories in and of themselves are not nutritious if we add vitamins minerals real protein and not all the snacks heck that's what we're doing to try to make America healthy again so let's talk about real things going on in snap let's not talk about hyperbole
▶ 1:45:33we want the health of the nation to improve as far as Government layoffs go the Biden Administration added hundreds of thousands of jobs to the federal government yes we do have technology that is going to actually decrease Workforce needs in all sectors all sectors and so if this is a part of what we have to do with government efficiency and reallocation of some individuals it is a sad fact that we have to do this to get off now we can argue all day night and day about the methods but
▶ 1:46:03it's a reality that we have to do this to tackle our debt Medicaid Biden Administration would not allow states to audit their Medicaid roles during the entire covid thing so anybody who came on um was not audited I still see patients the vast majority of which often times are on government assistance and I see most folks who really need on Medicaid but I see Time and Time and Time Again people who are gaming the system you know
▶ 1:46:33what that's not what the American taxpayer wants and it's honestly what people on Medicaid want they want their benefits secured so you know guys it all this rhetoric about how we're going to hurt this hurt this hurt this if we go down a the the the road of financial Peril which is going to happen in the next one or three years where the world will see that we cannot pay back our debt we are doomed as a country we are doomed as a country and I for one am damn glad that we have a president who's
▶ 1:47:03actually going to deal with this and this goes for Republican and Democrat presidents over the last 50 years who have not dealt with this added to our debt we have to have real measures in real time that have to deal with this crisis and so you know all the other litany that is just we're going to be making people die that's abs absolutely absurd absolutely absurd we have institutions that are gaming both the Medicare and the Medicaid system and those things need to stop so that the people
▶ 1:47:34who truly deserve these benefits actually can get them and that our nation will remain a sovereign country and the world will have Financial stability thank you Mr chairman I'll y back Mr nil thank you Mr chairman so president trumman was fond of saying let's take a look at the record so the record would include the Bush tax cuts $2.3 trillion 20 203 and incidentally a reminder a Medicare
▶ 1:48:04Part D prescription benefit that was never paid for and then we'll go to two Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with a million and a half new vets which we are obligated for good reason to care for and then of course our Republican colleagues many of whom were on this committee is there anybody on the dis who would deny that Republicans voted to borrow 2.3 trillion doll for the tax cut
▶ 1:48:342017 that's a fact that's a fact so when I hear all of a sudden the righteousness that is being suggested about recklessness on our part when everybody on this Das on the Republican side voted to increase bending and now the argument is well if we just cut Medicare or some IRS employees things will get better those positions that
▶ 1:49:04were adopted with borrowed money $2.3 trillion of borrowed money for a tax cut for the wealthiest amongst us and in deference to my friend Mr smucker is the argument that providing $1,700 to a middle class family is the basis of what you're about to do on the Republican side no it is not let's look at the distribution tables who's going to get what that's the reality of what we confront here now and then we argue
▶ 1:49:34that Democrats are responsible for the debt let me tell you something I cast those votes with Bill Clinton let me thank George Bush Senor as well for having had the courage to move forward with the proposal he did that many might argue cost him his job and then Bill Clinton picked up on it 93 and again in '97 in a way to reduce the debt we didn't borrow any money in those years for a tax cut for the wealthiest amongst us I'm going to yield to Mr Thompson thank you uh Mr Neil for
▶ 1:50:04yielding uh I think it also ought to be pointed out that the work that Bill Clinton did he did over five years working with both sides of the aisle to uh do it the way it should be done not haphazardly nuking every program uh in existence and I also think it ought to be pointed out when uh Mr smecker was uh was talking I was I I I looked up uh the amount of debt that has
▶ 1:50:34been added uh with different presidents and you know you are right uh Democrats had something to do with it President Obama added $8.3 trillion to our national debt the top amount only second to the number two was President Trump at trillion obam's was over eight years Trump's was over one term four
▶ 1:51:05years so don't point the fingers over here at at us uh there's work that we can do to find economies there's work that we can do to find waste there's probably there's work we can do to find fraud but there's a way to do it that is human M that's efficient that's effective that is within the law and respects our role as outlined in the Constitution of the United States of America
▶ 1:51:35not the way it's being done now I yield back it would have been great for our country if covid would have never existed during the Trump Administration Mr Buchanan let me just mentioned to my friends when I got here it was 8 half trillion let's deal with some reality it was 8 and a half trillion here we are today talking about 36 37 trillion there's a lot of blame to go around it's not one party or the other and a lot of us
▶ 1:52:05have a lot of responsibility for that because you don't continue to spend money you don't have 49 out of 50 Governors have to balance their budget they've got to do one thing in Florida uh the legislature and that is to produce a balanced budget of uh every year that's all they have that's the main thing they have to do this is a lot different but my point is I ran originally on trying to have a balanced budget amendment first week that I was in office I filed a balanced budget amendment and I filed one every every couple of years
▶ 1:52:35but we've gone from 8 trillion to 37 trillion a trillion in interest on our debt right now I mean in terms of that it's it's out of hand we've been talking about it so we need to find a way to come together and deal with the harsh reality of where we're at because if we don't one of the economist said it's not a matter if it's a matter when I yield back does anyone else wish to strike the last word seeing none we will move to amendments
▶ 1:53:06for strike the last word yes okay I'd like to yield to M we'll proceed on strike the last word I'd like to yield to Mr SW Snider Snider uh thank thank you and I just want to touch on some of the things have been said and um Mr banon I agree with you I came in in a little bit after you it was at1 trillion we're sitting at 37 projections are the debt is going to go to $50 trillion and um the other day
▶ 1:53:37uh Miss Miss Sanchez asked you know how do you show what a a trillion a million to billion to a trillion dollars is and I have an example I like to use if you stacked a million dollars one on top of the other dollar bills it's uh 358 ft roughly the distance between two two goalposts and I live in Chicago if I took that distance and kept adding from Soldier Field North adding dollars till I got to a billion it would take me just over the border of Wisconsin to kosha but a trillion dollars goes around the world two and a
▶ 1:54:07half times so when we're talking about trillions of dollars these are massive numbers that are putting a burden on future Generations right and then we end up in this room talking to each other talking past each other in absolutes saying in Mr smucker we're neighbors your friend I appreciate you but to say that um our only choice is to give massive tax cuts to the most fortunate in this country or Working Families can't have tax cuts just isn't
▶ 1:54:37right we can work together and come up with solutions to almost every one of our problems if we approach them in a way that says it's my way or your way or no way neither of us have all the answers but working together I think we can make a difference and if I draw a distinction it's not that one side or the other side believes we should have an efficient and Effective Government everyone in America wants an efficient and Effective Government but the way doge is approaching it if they were pruning trees they're cutting at the trunks not at the branches
▶ 1:55:08that makes no sense if they were doing weight management they're approaching it with amputation I don't think any doctor would recommend that to try to lose a few pounds and what we're looking at is people without experience without really without care going in and making slashing and cutting decisions that are affecting the lives of everyday Americans I spoke yesterday to a veteran 20 years in the Army three tours of Duty in
▶ 1:55:38Iraq one in Afghanistan he finished his service he was working for the VA 11 months into his first year getting rave reviews he gets an email out of the blue saying we're letting you go why because he's a quote unquote probationary employee all probationary means is he has one year before he becomes a full-time uh employee the work he's doing doesn't go away the work he's doing needs to be done and his talents that he brought to that work 20 years experience in the military
▶ 1:56:095 years exper experience in the private sector is now lost to the government that's nuts but that's what doge is doing and it's hurting and diminishing our government we should be talking about tax relief for American Working Families in a way that doesn't blow up our debt but grows our economy and we don't need to give big tax cut to Alan musk or Mark Mark Zuckerberg we should be talking about Effectiveness and Effectiveness and efficiency in government in ways that make sense first question
▶ 1:56:39should we be doing this at all if the answer is no stop doing it next question is the government the best one to do it if not let's find others to do that for the American people and then ask if we're the best if the government is the best to do it let's make sure we're doing in the best most effective most efficient way but throwing barbs back and forth saying that if you don't support exactly what we want you're trying to undermine or undercut the American people just isn't right it isn't true I yield that gentlemen will the gentleman
▶ 1:57:09yield is is mine working it's not my time but sure oh it's yes clock's still on you're on yeah so I I appreciate the comments that were just made um and and I I uh agree with much of what you said and I do I do want to point out that I wasn't casting aspirations on anyone I wasn't uh accusing the Democrats
▶ 1:57:40of anything as Mr Thompson had said earlier I really think there's an opportunity for us to work together here uh and I hope that we get to the point where we can do that I your questions about government are exactly what we should be asking uh I just what I don't understand is with when when Democrats on your side of the aisle are just simply saying that everything that doge is doing is terrible and is is not necessary you've been involved in
▶ 1:58:10corporations you understand the need to restructure you can't I I don't believe that you would think that we don't need a restructuring in the federal government it's got to be done right I feel bad for the veteran two seconds cuz yes I agree but the way doge is doing it the way Alon musk is doing it grabbing a chainsaw firing people because he disagrees with their politics that doesn't make sense let's do it in a smart intelligent way talking to each other and making sure that what we do doesn't cause unintended damage but moves our country forward
▶ 1:58:40I yield back any additional me any additional members wish to strike the last word seeing none we will move to amendments are there any amendments if there are no amendments if there are no amendments the question is on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of a substitute all those in favor signify by saying I I
▶ 1:59:11those oppose say no in the opinion of the chair the eyes have it in the amendment in the nature of a substitute is agreed to I will now recognize Mr Buchanan for the purpose of offering a motion Mr chairman I move the committee favorably report HR 1491 as amended to the House of Representatives the question is on the motion to favorably report hr14 1491 as amended to the House of Representatives the clerk will call role Mr banan yes Mr banan yes
▶ 1:59:41Mr Smith Nebraska Mr Smith of Nebraska yes Mr Kelly Mr Kelly yes Mr schwier Mr schwier yes Mr L Hood Mr L Hood yes Mr Arrington Mr Estus Mr Estus yes Mr smucker Mr smucker yes Mr Hearn Mr Hearn
▶ 2:00:12yes Mrs Miller Mrs Miller yes Dr Murphy Dr Murphy yes Mr kustoff Mr kustoff yes Mr Fitzpatrick Mr Fitzpatrick yes Mr stby Mr stuie yes Miss tinny Miss Tenny Miss Tenny
▶ 2:00:42yes Mrs fishbach Mrs fishbach yes Mr Moore Mr Moore yes Miss vany yes Miss vany yes Mr finra Mr finra yes Miss malot Takis Miss malot Takis yes Mr Cary yes Mr Cary yes Mr yakum Mr yakum yes Mr Miller
▶ 2:01:12Mr Miller yes Mr beanan yes Mr Bean yes Mr Moran Mr Moran yes Mr Neil no Mr Neil no Mr dogget I don't know it yeah we're voting
▶ 2:01:43yes Mr do it yes Mr doet yes Mr Thompson I Mr Thompson yes Mr Larson yes Mr lson yes Mr Davis Mr Davis yes's good Miss Sanchez Miss Sanchez yes Miss Su Miss Su yes Miss Del Miss Del yes Miss Chu Miss Chu yes Miss Moore Miss Moore yes Mr Bole
▶ 2:02:13Mr Bole yes Mr Byer Mr berer yes Mr Evans Mr Evans yes Mr Schneider Mr Schneider yes Mr Panetta Mr Panetta yes Mr Gomez Mr Gomez yes Mr Horford Miss plaset yes Miss plaset yes Mr swazi yes Mr swazi
▶ 2:02:46yes Mr Arrington how is Mr nil recording Mr Neil is yes you're yes Mr Neils yes okay thank you uh Mr Arrington Mr Arrington yes Mr
▶ 2:03:19Horford chairman Smith yes chairman Smith yes clerk will report the vote the yeses are 44 the NOS are zero there being 44 yeses and zero NOS the motion is agreed to in hr1 1491 as amended as ordered favorably reported to the house
▶ 2:03:49without objection I ask that staff be authorized to make Technical and conforming changes to hr1 1491 and that members have two additional days to file with the committee clerk supplemental additional dissenting or minority views our next item in business is HR 5117 the filing relief for natural disasters act sponsored by representatives kustoff and Chu over the last year we've witnessed Americans lose their homes and livelihoods in some tragic cases their very lives to natural disasters
▶ 2:04:20that have devastated communities from California to Tennessee and across this great nation the last thing survivors of natural disaster should have to worry about is missing a tax deadline while they're sifting through the wreckage of their home or trying to locate a lost loved one this bipartisan legislation supports disaster victims by granting the treasury secretary the authority to postpone federal tax deadlines for those impacted by state declared disasters
▶ 2:04:50I want to thank Representatives and cheu for their advocacy on behalf of the people of Tennessee impacted by Hurricane Helen and those in California impacted by the multiple fires and for all taxpayers around the country who have been affected by natural disasters I'm now I now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee for the purposes of an statement thank you Mr chairman and thank you for holding today's markup and for considering what I think
▶ 2:05:20is an important piece of legis ation the filing relief for natural disasters act I also do want to thank my colleague representative Chu for joining me in introducing this bipartisan Bill my guess is that most of the people on this Das have at some point seen their state and their own constituents impacted by a natural disaster or an emergency my district which is West Tennessee has been hit by a number of natural
▶ 2:05:50disasters over the years r ranging from tornadoes to most recently major flooding and of course right now in East Tennessee there are still many people who are grappling with the devastating aftermath of hurricane Helen last year for many tennesseans their lives have been greatly affected now anyone who's toured a disaster area that or spoken to victims or watch the damage from television or social media
▶ 2:06:20know recovering and rebuilding is certainly not easy and it won't happen overnight for so many impacted Americans for families and communities it's critical that they have timely access to the support the resources and the relief that they need to begin the recovery process and to start getting their lives back on track this also includes regulatory relief among other things and for many taxpayers
▶ 2:06:51and small businesses filing season can be laborious and it can be a process and that's why under the current law the Department of Treasury has the authority to postpone certain tax filing deadlines for taxpayers affected by federally declared disasters but the treasury Department does not have the authority to provide filing relief following state level declarations which are typically issued immediately after
▶ 2:07:22Federal declarations can take weeks or months before being issued and that disperate treatment between federal and state level declarations under current law can delay relief and create significant confusion for impacted taxpayers and that's why representative Chu and I introduced the filing relief for natural disasters act this legislation makes two straightforward Common Sense reforms to the IRS code
▶ 2:07:53that will ensure that disaster victims are able to receive timely relief specifically this bill will authorize the Secretary of Treasury in consultation with FEMA to extend filing relief to taxpayers as soon as the governor of the state declares a disaster or a state of emergency it will also expand the current mandatory filing extension following a federal de ation from 60 days
▶ 2:08:23to 120 days I don't think there's any doubt that disaster victims have more important things to worry about than bureaucratic red tape at the IRS this bill is bipartisan it's certainly Pro taxpayer it's certainly common sense that I believe will address a glaring flaw in our tax code and with that I urge our colleagues to support disaster victims in Tennessee and in California
▶ 2:08:54and across this nation by voting for this important piece of legislation thank you Mr chairman and I'll yield back my time thank you and I now recognize Miss Chu for an opening statement thank you I urge my colleagues to support HR 517 the filing relief for natural disasters act and I want to thank representative kustoff for his partnership on this bill each year States like California declare state level emergencies
▶ 2:09:24for disasters like wildfires hurricanes floods or earthquakes under current law disaster victims can only receive federal filing relief if and when the president of the United States declares a federal disaster while President Biden immediately declared a Federal disaster for the Los angelis fires that devastated my district last month in Altadena and Pasadena that was unusually fast often these
▶ 2:09:55declarations can take days or even weeks which was the case in 2020 after wildfires including the Bobcat fire in the San Gabriel mountains ravaged my state and if disaster strikes during filing season it means taxpayers run the risk of missing their Federal filing deadlines through no fault of their own our legislation would ensure that victims can get the instantaneous Federal filing relief they need to recover from natural disasters
▶ 2:10:25by allowing the IRS to extend filing deadlines after a request from a governor who has declared a state disaster while I urge my colleagues to support this bill I must address an overwhelming disaster of a different nature just days ago president Trump allowed Elon Musk to illegally fire nearly 7,000 IRS employ employees in the middle of the tax filing season this will
▶ 2:10:55not only undermine the agency's ability to implement this bill and quickly provide tax relief for disaster survivors it's part of a systemic effort to hollow out the IRS to protect wealthy tax cheats while hurting law-abiding Americans who will face frustrating weights on the phone just to get a question answer or face delays in getting the tax refund they're relying on and these civil servants were fired fired without
▶ 2:11:25cause and without any explanation to Congress they include people like my constituent Angela who called my office just yesterday asking for our help after she was fired without cause from her job at the IRS she has records of her performance reviews which proved that she was doing a good job and helping taxpayers yet Elon Musk fired her and thousands of her colleagues anyway I ask my Republican
▶ 2:11:55colleagues please work with us to address these indiscriminate firings and to address Elon Musk and doa's illegal access to sensitive treasury systems and taxpayers confidential data this is not business as usual and we have a responsibility to stop these unconstitutional and unprecedented overreaches I also want to point out that the Chairman's amendment in the nature of a
▶ 2:12:26substitute directs the IRS to consult with FEMA but it completely ignores that President Trump is threatening to eliminate FEMA entirely and Elon Musk fires their workers even as the agency undertakes indispensable Disaster Response work my district is suffering from the e and fire that destroyed it entire communities left 20,000 people homeless took 17
▶ 2:12:56lives and burned 9,500 structures thanks to President Biden's immediate disaster declaration thema has been there since the start to help my constituents get federal assistance to F find housing and pay for their basic needs but we will need more help from Congress including a supplemental Disaster Assistance package my bill is an important way to help future disaster victims but what survivors in my district really need right now is for
▶ 2:13:27Republicans to reject unconscionable threats to place conditions on Aid never in our country's history has Congress placed such policy conditions on aid for disaster victims as president Trump and speaker Johnson are threatening to do to my constituents wildfires like all natural disasters know no political parties I hope that my Republican colleagues on this committee will stand up for these survivors and support disaster
▶ 2:13:57Aid with no strings attached just as we did for victims of hurricanes Milton and Helen in December so I urge support for this bill and I yield back thank you the committee will now proceed in consideration of HR 517 the filing relief for natural disasters Act without objection the measure will be considered as read and open for Amendment at any point at this time I offer an amendment in the nature of substitute which
▶ 2:14:27was distributed in advance along with a green sheet explaining it without objection the amendment in the nature of substitute will be considered as red open for Amendment at any point and considered base text for purpose of an amendment I will now turn to Tom barold chief of staff for the joint committee on taxation to provide the technical description of the amendment in the nature of the substitute with an emphasis on the changes made since introduction I ask that members hold their questions until after his presentation thank you Mr chairman the members
▶ 2:14:57of the committee have before them two joint committee documents jcx D12 d25 and jcx D1 14-25 which describe the underlying legislation and the Chairman's amendment in the nature of a substitute in short this legislation defines a qualified State declared disaster and allows the secretary of the that allows that the Secretary of the Treasury May upon the request of a governor of a state apply the rules of code section
▶ 2:15:277805 Capa which grants suspension of the time period for filing uh uh tax returns in the case of qualified State declared disasters in addition to that the uh suspension of the period that's already permitted for nation for presidentially declared disasters the amendment in the nature of a substitute further clarifies IES that the legislation applies both for Relief with respect to the filing of returns
▶ 2:15:57and for claims of refund and also May Grant extensions of time for actions that are related to qualified pension plans and employee benefit plans the legislation further extends the mandatory 60-day suspension period in the case of a federally declared Disaster Area to 120 days in the case of a federally declared Disaster Area this legislation would be effective for declarations after the date
▶ 2:16:27of enactment and the staff of The Joint Committee has estimated that there's negligible uh budgetary effects from this legislation that concludes my brief description of the legislation I'd be happy to answer any questions that the members might have thank you are there any technical questions in the of the amendment in the nature of a substitute I call on Miss JW Mr chair first I want to say that I'm glad the committee
▶ 2:16:57is considering this important bill which I proudly sponsor with representative kustoff it would give IRS new authority to extend Federal Tax filing deadlines after a state disaster instead of waiting until the president declares a federal disaster this bill has the potential to be extremely helpful for disaster victims across the country but only if the federal government continues to have the capacity to respond to these disasters and help taxpayers so Mr bartold this bill lays out a
▶ 2:17:28process for extending Federal filing deadlines after a state declared disaster which agencies are involved in that process um Mr to primarily the Secretary of the Treasury on behalf of the Internal Revenue Service uh and the legislation directs the secretary to consult uh with the Federal Emergency Management agency thank you uh last week president Trump and Elon Musk fired 6700 IRS
▶ 2:17:58workers in the middle of tax filing season and news outlets have reported that acting IRS commissioner Doug odonnell is resigning after Decades of service this week over disagreements with Elon Musk and Doge's evisceration of the agency's workforce and access to confidential taxpayer data this bill is directing the IRS to exercise new authority to help taxpayers but the very employees who will make that possible
▶ 2:18:28are being fired not for performance issues but because Elon Musk has unilaterally decided to make Americans lives more difficult by firing them and is unvetted Doge employees may have access to sensitive taxpayer data that's protected by law with no oversight into what they're doing with that data Mr bot is there anything in the Chairman's amendment in the nature of a substitute that would address president Trump and Elon Musk Mass firing
▶ 2:18:59of IRS employees or revoke Doge's access to sensitive information M two the legislation only uh modifies uh the Internal Revenue code it doesn't it doesn't modify any hiring practices or expenditures okay well you also said that the Chairman's amendment in the nature of substitute requires the IRS to consult with the administrator of FEMA before extending filing deadlines last month president
▶ 2:19:29Trump said publicly that he wants to eliminate FEMA entirely and Elon Musk has already fired 200 employees again not for cause even as they work to respond to disasters including in my district so Mr Bartel does the Chairman's amendment in the nature of a substitute to anything to protect FEMA from the Trump Administration and Elon mus effort to it uh the the legislation only calls for consultation it I think it's generally
▶ 2:19:59not within the jurisdiction of this this committee to deal with FEMA thank you now lastly I want to reiterate that my district just suffered a catastrophic Firestorm that destroyed entire neighborhoods in Altadena and North Pasadena it killed 17 of my constituents 20,000 people lost their homes 9 500 structures burned and still president Trump and Republicans are threatening to place conditions on supplemental Federal disaster
▶ 2:20:29Aid that these survivors are relying on Congress to provide this has never been done in our history and certainly was not done in December when we passed disaster aid for Hurricane survivors so Mr Bartle does the Chairman's amendment in the nature of a substitute do anything to ensure that supplemental disaster aid for victims of the Los Angeles Fire fires will be delivered without strings attached Miss Chu this uh legislation modifies the Internal Revenue code and
▶ 2:21:00does not address Appropriations thank you I ask these questions despite urging my colleagues to support this bill but we are not considering it in a vacuum we are directing the federal government to exercise new authority to help taxpayers it's unconscionable that Republicans continue to ignore president Trump and Elon musk's allout illegal unconstitutional attack on the very federal workers who we are asking to carry out these
▶ 2:21:30bills I yield back continuing with h technical questions and uh on the amendment in the nature of substitute I'll go with I'll call on Miss Moore from Wisconsin thank you so much uh Mr chairman and um you know I I just want to continue with with you Mr bartold asking you a question because my constituents are constantly asking me what I am doing to stop this
▶ 2:22:01budget reconciliation from going through that would eviscerate all kinds of benefits for my constituents they don't want to hear about how I'm voting against uh how I voted against the budget resolution they don't want to hear uh my whining about how I don't have any standing in court they don't want to hear that I'm in the minority and so really the only thing that I can do is to educate them and so I'm hoping that you will help me with that process today
▶ 2:22:31now Mr smucker made it really clear today he reiterated something that I heard for hours yesterday that quote every person who pays taxes will see their taxes go down under an extension of the tax cut and jobs act now I'm not saying that the tax cut jobs act uh doesn't cut taxes for a whole lot of people I mean after all $4.5 trillion is a lot of money and I'm sure that it's going to cut taxes for a lot of people
▶ 2:23:02but um you know somebody is going to have to pay for these tax cuts so Mr Berle I am asking you would you please provide every member of this Committee of what portion of the population stands to have a tax increase as a result of the extension of the tax cut and jobs act and Mr D Bart told I'm not looking to put you on the spot here unless you just want to
▶ 2:23:32be on the spot but I certainly look forward to getting that in writing and Mr smucker uh you're not here but I see an opportunity to get a free meal out of you so I look forward to your apology and for your taking me to lunch and and with that Mr barle unless you're prepared to give me some preliminary answers I would look forward to this in writing uh Miss Moore I will provide a detailed uh written analysis uh as
▶ 2:24:03background uh at the time that public 11597 uh was passed uh the joint committee staff prepared a number of economic analyses including a distributional analysis of the bill along with that material that was made uh available to the committee members and the public uh was an an analysis by income class of the number of cases in which there was a tax increase under that legislation and a tax decrease under that legislation
▶ 2:24:34so an analysis of reversing uh that or extending further that uh legislation would have a like effect and there were in fact in7 uh in7 2017 cases where there were tax increases so permanently extending the individual provisions of public law 11597 will have a small percentage uh across the current budget period percentage
▶ 2:25:04ranges from about s and a half% to around 8% of tax filing units that experience a uh will that we project will experience a tax increase uh of $100 or greater and um my colleagues are preparing uh that detailed analysis for the members of the committee uh and I hope to have that to all of your offices by the close of today
▶ 2:25:35thank you so much Mr chairman and and I yield back thank you uh chair wants to remind members to uh confine their questions to the bill under consideration which is HR 517 so continuing with technical questions about the amendment and nature substitute uh I recognize Mr Byer from Virginia Mr chairman thank you very much Mr bold thank you for Patiently hanging in there with us Mr bartold over the past few weeks president Trump and Elon Musk have fired hundreds of thousands of
▶ 2:26:05hardworking ental federal employees across the country simply because they have probationary status due to being new hires or transfers or because they perform functions that Republicans don't like workers who had just started new jobs or had had a stand performance reviews were sent late night letters referencing wholly unspecified performance issues that their supervisors couldnot substantiate the IRS represented quote no employee will be denied unemployment insurance
▶ 2:26:35which they are rightfully do since they are being involuntarily separated from service but we Now understand Mr bold that agencies are determining how to classify the reasons these employees were laid off for unemployment purposes there's a decision whether they've been classified as discharged for inadequate performance or let go for lack of work permanently my understanding is that as a result of the phrase discharge for inadequate performance classification many states will have to delay or deny
▶ 2:27:05earned unemployment benefits to those workers in my home state of Virginia that unjustified Claim about performance could also prevent workers from receiving unemployment benefits even if they're laid off in the future so Mr bartold under current federal policy and law will being classified as quote discharged for performance trigger an extra layer of investigation and delay workers receiving unemployment benefits uh Mr Mr berer I'm afraid that uh uh that's not
▶ 2:27:36really in my area of expertise so I can't answer your question okay well let me continue in some cases would you know will state law require the state to deny innocent federal workers their earn benefits because of their classification uh again I'm not sufficiently expert Mr bar thank you well Mr bold has the department of gentleman suspend chair reminds members to confine their questions to the bill under consideration HR 517 great thank you well thank you now that we have Mr barold here
▶ 2:28:06thank you Mr chairman has the Department of Labor given States any written or other guidance instructing them that innocent federal employees were part of a mass layoff by dose and should be awarded unemployment benefits which the federal government by the way is legally required to reimburse again Mr berer not not my area of expertise I'm sorry so Mr chairman directing it to you for the sake of these hundreds of thousands of laid off federal employees will you and Mr Smith commit to working with us to ensure that these employees receive
▶ 2:28:36unemployment insurance what is essentially a reduction in force without the proper procedures by Doge solely based on someone being a prary employee yes we'll we'll work with uh identifying take that under consideration and figure out how to make that work for those workers yeah thank you Mr chairman I yield back thank you um now we're moving into the strike the last word does anyone wish to strike the last word oh excuse me were there any other technical
▶ 2:29:06questions did you have strike strike the last word strike all right let's move into the strike the last word and I recognize Mr Thompson California thank you uh Mr chairman I support this legislation and allows disaster victims the extra time to claim tax credits that they deserve constituents in my district were busy calling my office uh concerned about this when we had the terrible fires uh in California and one thing I learned from those
▶ 2:29:36terrible fires that terrible natural disaster was that uh disasters uh require a greater need for Health Care uh as well and I just want to point out that the proposed cuts to programs uh by the Republicans uh programs such as Medicaid are causing uh great concern throughout my district and I'm sure throughout their districts and if they had their Town Hall meetings uh they they they would hear from uh their constituents How
▶ 2:30:06concerned they are but but it's not just uh everyday constituents it's also uh health care clinics and hospitals who realize that this is an extremely important means by which to ensure that people in all of our districts get the health care that they need uh for over 60 years Medicaid has been a Lifeline for people with low incomes and those with disabilities uh in order to have access to health care
▶ 2:30:37uh Mr chairman Medicaid is an essential program that ensures Health Care coverage for our most vulnerable constituents that we serve uh your proposed cuts to Medicaid up to 80 80 billion would devastate communities across our country both red districts and blue districts nearly one in four Americans or 80 million people are covered by Medicaid these proposed Cuts
▶ 2:31:07means that our neighbors will struggle to afford to see a doctor they'll struggle to be able to purchase their medication and they will not have adequate access to nursing home uh services and the fact of the matter is that it goes much further than that uh it's going to be harder to find doctors and if they if they need one they're going to have to travel further which is going to be an additional cost and
▶ 2:31:37they're going to put off Health Care needs uh because of this until they're much sicker much harder and much more expensive uh to treat we're already seeing problems in uh in areas where rural hospitals are located uh hospitals are struggling many are closing or they're eliminating Services these hospitals are heavily reliant on reimbursements from Medicare and Medicaid any cut to Medicaid
▶ 2:32:08funding would lead to catastrophic results for all uh not just those on Medicaid people who get their health care or pay for their health care through private insurance people who pay for their health care out of pocket are going to be uh faced with challenges also because as these uh hospitals close uh or reduce Services they're going to be impacted as well uh every uninsured person results in a $900
▶ 2:32:39in uncompensated health care cost per year this results in fewer Services being offered higher prices for patients not just those those on Medicaid all patients and reduced investments in local hospitals these Cuts occur a hospital has to make difficult decisions about what staff to cut and what services they'll no longer offer all of which will hurt the people that we represent
▶ 2:33:09all of us in red districts and in blue districts I yield back thank you I I now recognize uh Miss Miller from West Virginia for 5 minutes to strike the last word thank you I move to strike the last word in West Virginia we are no strangers to natural disasters in the past year my home state has experienced severe storms flooding landslides just last week a state of emergency
▶ 2:33:39was declared across 10 counties in my district due to devastating rains and flooding I received a phone call myself last Sunday asking for help I said what do you need their comment was everything so come Monday I loaded up two truck loads and headed down there myself to see how desperate the people were while people work to put their lives back together after a natural disaster the last thing they need
▶ 2:34:09is to be worrying about filing their taxes it's critical that taxpayers that are impacted both federally declared disasters and State level emergencies can have access of relief from tax filing deadlines I support this Common Sense legislation that will help taxpayers like the ones currently in my own District that have been affected by natural disasters thank you and I yield back my
▶ 2:34:40time thank you I now recognize Mr dogget from Texas to strike the last word for five minutes well thank you very much uh Mr chairman uh this bill about dis declarations uh ignores the real disaster that is occurring all around us uh the committee wants to continue to operate as if business were normal here while the government around us is enveloped with chaos with destruction illegality uh the
▶ 2:35:10activity here began with President Trump's pardoning of the dangerous January 6 felons and returning them to their communities but it is now expanded into numerous illegal activities uh he ignores the law enacted by this Congress uh apparently ignoring court orders telling him to comply with the laws passed by the Congress and uh more recently he has approved his staff referring to him as king one would expect that in these
▶ 2:35:41circumstances we would get uh some cooperation in getting some accountability we cannot even get uh someone one from Doge to come before this committee or uh any member of the administration to come before the committee to answer questions about what's happening whether it's interference with the Privacy uh sensitive information of every American family are the dismissal of veterans helping veterans at the VA and
▶ 2:36:11in other agencies While most Republicans have reacted to the president's illegality with silence some have gone a step further in a different direction representative McDow has proposed that we rename the national airport here out at Dulles for president Trump representative Aluna has proposed legislation before us uh to carve president Trump's face into
▶ 2:36:41Mount Rushmore and going a step further not to be outdone our colleague Miss Tenny who is here has introduced a bill that would declare a national holiday for Donald Trump's birthday something that great leaders and many authoritarian countries uh have already uh I think that what we need instead of encouragement for the illegality that is occurring is to have some accountability that accountability
▶ 2:37:11can come from this Congress from elected officials but it can also come from the American people I believe that tyranny in this country will will not be imposed with one Fell Swoop it comes with each law that is violated with each court order that is disregarded and it comes step by step and we're seeing that occur in this country today we're about to have a giant leap forward if the disastrous Republican budget is approved
▶ 2:37:41doing great harm to our nation's finances and great harm to many American families the response will certainly come from those of us in this Congress but is a response that must come from the American people if people all over this country speak out in favor of efficient government but not government that eviscerates the lives of so many of our citizens if they speak out against this fawning on a president who would be king who would be our dictator
▶ 2:38:12uh we can put a stop to it but it will take all Americans who speak out who demand accountability from their own elction eled officials if we are to preserve this democracy the need to do that is urgent and I encourage all citizens to engage a yield back thank you does anyone wish to strike the last thank thank you are there any amendments to the amendment in the nature of
▶ 2:38:45substitute seeing none the question is on green to the amendment offered by by by uh uh Mr cust oh if there are no further amendments question is on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of the substitute all those in favor signify by yes yes yes yes those opposed no in the opinion of the chair the yeses have it and amendment in the nature of substitute is agreed to I'll now recognize Mr McKennon for the purpose
▶ 2:39:15of offering a motion Mr chairman I move the committee favor of report HR 517 is amended to the House of Representatives question is on the motion to favorably report HR 517 as Amendment as amended to the House of Representatives the clerk will call the role Mr Buchanan yes Mr Buchanan yes Mr Smith of Nebraska
▶ 2:39:46Mr Kelly schwier Mr Le Hood Mr Le Hood yes Mr Arrington Mr Estus Mr Estus yes Mr smucker Mr smucker yes Mr Hearn Mr Hearn yes Mrs Miller
▶ 2:40:19Dr Murphy Dr Murphy yes Mr kustoff Mr kustoff yes Mr Fitzpatrick Mr Fitzpatrick yes Mr stuie Mr stuie yes Miss tinny Miss Tenny Miss Mrs fishbach Mrs fishbach yes Mr Moore Miss vany
▶ 2:40:50yes Miss vany yes Mr finra Mr finstra yes Miss malot takz Mr Cary Mr Cary yes Mr yakam Mr yakum yes Mr Miller yes Mr yes Mr Bean Mr Bean yes Mr Moran
▶ 2:41:22Mr Neil Mr Neil yes Mr doet Mr dogget yes Mr Thompson Mr Larson Mr lson yes Mr Davis Mr Davis yes Miss Sanchez Miss SU Miss do Ben Miss do Ben yes Miss
▶ 2:41:53Chu Miss Chu yes Miss Moore Miss Moore yes Mr Bole Mr Bole yes Mr berer Mr Evans Mr Evans yes Mr Schneider Mr Schneider yes Mr Panetta Mr Panetta yes Mr Gomez Mr Gomez yes Horford Miss
▶ 2:42:23plaset Miss plaset yes Mr swazi Mr swazi yes how is Miss Sanchez recorded Miss Sanchez is not recorded Miss Sanchez yes how is Miss malot Takis recorded Miss malot Takis is not recorded Miss Mal Tas yes Mr how is Mr
▶ 2:42:53Smith recorded Mr Smith of Nebraska is not recorded Mr Smith of Nebraska yes Mr Kelly how is Mr recorded Mr Arrington is not recorded Mr Arrington yes Mr Kelly how is Mr Kelly record Mr Kelly is not recorded yes Mr Kelly yes M
▶ 2:43:24schwier yes Mr schwier yes Mrs Miller Mrs Miller yes Mr Moore Mr Moore yes Mr Moran Mr Moran yes Mr Thompson Mr Thompson yes Su
▶ 2:43:55Mr berer Mr Horford chairman Smith yes chairman Smith yes the clerk will report the vote
▶ 2:44:26the yeses are 42 the NOS are zero there being 42 yeses and zero NOS the motion is agreed to in HR 517 as amended is ordered favorably reported to the house without objection I ask that staff be authorized to make Technical and conforming changes to HR 57 and that members have two additional days to follow with the committee clerk supplemental additional dissenting or minority views our last bill is a CRA resolution sponsored by representative kery that would roll
▶ 2:44:56back the defi broker rule back in December representative kery sent former treasury secretary yelen and former I IRS commissioner warl a letter detailing concerns about IRS overreach with the original IRS broker rule as well as the propo proposed defi broker rule shortly after this letter was sent the agency finalized the defi broker rule pushing through regulations
▶ 2:45:27that would have massive impacts on millions of American taxpayers and the IRS itself requiring millions of taxpayers to file a new form 1099 an inundating and already inefficient IRS with additional paperwork and burden as former IRS commissioner reic said the volume of data ARIS from the rule would quote overwhelm the agency and have little or no value to effective and efficient
▶ 2:45:57Tax Administration the laws Congress passes should be interpreted fairly not used as a pretext to gain more control over taxpayers and the economy I want to thank representative Kerry for leading this effort to protect taxpayers and businesses from more overreach from the IRS I now recognize the gentleman from Ohio for the purposes of of an opening statement I want to thank the chairman uh and his staff for bringing this CRA for consideration by the committee today
▶ 2:46:28this Common Sense bipartisan resolution would overturn the IRS digital asset sale and exchange rule otherwise known as the IRS broker rule the final rule which came out at the end of 2024 requires self custodial digital assets wallet providers and other developers of non-custodial software to submit information reports to the IRS this goes well beyond
▶ 2:46:58the scope of the infrastructure investment and jobs act instructions to the IRS and treasury regarding the establishment of rules for digital asset exchanges while the IRS authority to designate self custodial wallet providers as brokers is legally questionable it is nevertheless inappropriate to impose consumer and technology related regulatory policy
▶ 2:47:28through tax code especially in the absence of explicit delegation of the legislative Authority self- custodial wallet providers do not have the customer customer level transaction data the IRS seeks for reporting and they cannot obtain this data without fundamentally changing the products their products and the business model in addition to invading the privacy of tens of millions of Americans and hindering
▶ 2:47:58the development of this growing industry in the United States this rule would overwhelm the IRS with over 8 billion 8 billion new information returns for form 1099 da which the da stands for digital assets to put this in perspective effective this is more than double the amount of the information Returns the IRS currently receives on all other types of forms
▶ 2:48:28of the 1099 combined again this more than doubles the amount for the 1099 one thing I believe that we can all agree is that we want the IRS to process returns in a timely and efficient manner the IRS must focus on effective ly handling this its current duties and its obligations not sifting through billions of new useless information Returns the IRS
▶ 2:48:58broker rule hinders American innovation and a globally competitive environment infringes on the privacy of constituents and overwhelms the IRS with these new filings failing to pass the CRA would erode the security and privacy of self- custodial wallet users throughout the the United States we must pass this resolution to avoid this nightmare for American taxpayers and for the IRS while ensuring that the United States is
▶ 2:49:28in fact in a position to lead the world in Innovation with digital assets and in the crypto sector I encourage all my colleagues to support this resolution that Mr chairman I yield back I now recognize the ranking member from Massachusetts Mr nil thank you Mr chairman the bill before us today would repeal sensible and important Treasury regulations ensuring that taxpayers meet their tax filing obligations and do not skirt the law by selling cryptocurrency without reporting the gains it's really
▶ 2:49:59that simple by repealing this regulation our Republican colleagues are allowing taxpayers to raid the Fisk of an additional $4 billion and make no mistake about it the bill is unpaid for a pattern we are seeing from our colleagues across the aisle not withstanding their Fidelity to so-called fiscal resp responsibility I don't think we should be surprised that our Republican colleagues today are weakening the tools that the IRS has to enforce tax laws a very important element in fundamental
▶ 2:50:29democracy they are the party that has consistently underfunded the IRS they are the party that actively seeks to repeal the funding boost that Democrats gave the IRS and they are a party that is stood idly by while those who are not appointed and not elected have fired 6700 IRS employees this tax filing season it is not a good bill and in service of bad tax policy let me point out that I will be voting no and I urge my colleagues to do precisely
▶ 2:51:00the same yield the back I yield back my time yes the committee will now proceed to consideration of H res25 disapproving the rule submitted by the Internal Revenue Service related to gross proceeds reporting by Brokers that regularly provide Services effectuating digital asset Sals without objection the measure will be considered as read and open for Amendment at any point I will now turn to Tom bartl chief of staff for the joint committee on taxation to
▶ 2:51:30provide the technical description of the resolution I ask the members hold their questions until after his presentation thank you Mr chairman the members of the committee have before them a joint committee document jcx D1 11-25 which describes house joint resolution 25 as background the bipartisan infrastructure legislation provided that trading in digital assets was to be subject to broker reporting of gross proceeds and basis uh upon sale of such an asset
▶ 2:52:01in July of last year 2024 the IRS promulgated promulgated regulations to effectuate the broker reporting rules and in those uh uh in that July 24th release they distinguished between custodial and non-custodial uh sides of the market the latter is often referred to as operating or trading through decentralized Finance or known colloquially as defi in July the IRS
▶ 2:52:31reserved on rules that would be applicable to the decentralized the defi uh portion of the market in December of 2024 the IRS finalized regulations that would apply to persons who participate in effectuating defi transactions the joint resolution before you provides that the December regulations applicable to the non-custodial part of the market would cease to have effect and would be treated as never having taken effect
▶ 2:53:02uh if adopted this would be effective upon the date of enactment uh the staff of The Joint Committee has estimated that this uh uh that adoption of the joint resolution would reduce Baseline Federal receipts by approximately $3.9 billion over the period of fiscal years 2025 2034 uh that concludes my description of the joint resolution I'd be happy to answer any questions that the members might have thank
▶ 2:53:32you are there any technical questions about the resolution doet thank you Mr barthold uh tell us again uh what is the cost of this bill we've estimated that this would reduce Baseline receipts over the fiscal 2025 through 2034 by approximately $3.9 billion in other words almost $4 billion that will be lost not because taxes have been cut anywhere but because uh people
▶ 2:54:02will evade and avoid their taxes through this bill uh a reduction in uh reported tax uh and payment of reported tax liabilities and isn't that just another way of saying that people that owe taxes don't report them the gross proceeds reporting and basis reporting also AIDS taxpayers in kind of proper computation but the the factor that you mentioned is uh is an important factor sir and and in fact this legislation is not offset
▶ 2:54:33it's $4 billion added to the federal debt uh this uh joint resolution yes sir yes sir and and we have another Republican bill on the floor today to worsen the climate crisis it adds 7 billion but let me ask you I guess this is all really just kind of small potatoes compared to the uh instruction that I know you're familiar with that the committee got yesterday which is that we are to uh cut
▶ 2:55:03revenues uh basically increase the deficit by over $4,000 billion 4 and a half trillion I believe is the instruction in the budget resolution is that not correct that that is what I've read right so it it is amazing to listen to colleagues as we have heard just a few minutes ago say we're essentially bankrupt unless we change course uh to say that we're on the road to financial Peril and to uh be
▶ 2:55:33so concerned about our national debt that they're going to add $4 billion to make it worse today $7 billion on the floor and four over $4,000 billion dollar eventually uh that uh they're going to add to our national debt that's why I say they're proposing so much uh wrecking of our nation's finances for the very things they say they're against is what they're voting to make worse let me ask you also uh about the nature of this specific
▶ 2:56:04bill as it relates to exchanges if I understand this bill does not cover all exchanges that deal with cryptocurrency uh that's correct sir as uh as I noted uh it only repeals the December regulations relating to the decentralized finance um portion of the market so doesn't the bill appear to create an incentive uh since you don't have to do any tax reporting uh for decentralized
▶ 2:56:34exchanges but you do for centralized exchanges for more taxpayers to move to decentralized exchanges uh Through Time some uh taxpayers might take advantage of uh that opportunity sir and and among those taxpayers uh I assume in your $4 billion estimate uh because the decentralized exchanges are not subject to regulatory requirements such as know your customer rules that apply to to Banks aren't these exchanges
▶ 2:57:05generally those where illegal transactions occur um well I I don't know uh if that's where all uh uh um money laundering are or the like takes place I should should note that as a as a matter of the estimate the Baseline are we already assume that there are uh report there are exchange there are trades that are not reported on these uh exchanges and that
▶ 2:57:35the regulations would not necessarily have swept in uh all such decentralized Finance arrangements so whether it's U transactions in the fentanyl Market or terrorism financing or just your your typical tax Dodger who refuses to pay his or her her fair share of financing our national security what we're doing is creating another big loophole for them to avoid uh their taxes and their responsibility doing what
▶ 2:58:05most Americans do and that's to pay their taxes they can dodge them through this new Avenue thank you Mr schwier thank you Mr chairman uh Mr ble um just to sort of I I want to make sure I'm sort of understanding so I'm looking at at some of your breakouts um you have 3.9 o over the 10 um in um lower collections
▶ 2:58:35correct uh uh yes in lower tax receipts sir okay tax receipts um right now on these sorts of exchanges were you able to sort of um model how much is both being collected and how much you think is uh in areas where there's non-compliance it's uh hard to do precise modeling uh Mr schwier but uh some things we have done to try to uh uh get a reasonable uh fix on
▶ 2:59:05this is we've tracked uh both uh private and publicly reported information on the scale of uh trades in uh digital assets uh in terms of of uh past reporting uh we have looked at uh in the universe of uh uh information returns I mean not of information returns of gain realizations reported on sales of digital assets for tax years 2019
▶ 2:59:352020 2021 uh and 2022 by looking at schedules D and the accompanying form 8949 uh and in those uh years the uh uh total realizations uh have been uh over 2 billion 5 bilon 371 billion uh dollars in particular in 2021 uh and over 10 billion in 2022 and and I want to clarify from my
▶ 3:00:05own thinking um those were gains was that tax off those those were gain those were gain realizations so so that's before tax so if if you want to think of the approximately 3 billion of lost receipts that over a 10-year period that's on the neighborhood of 10 to 12 to5 billion doll worth of realization um now but this those obligations are still a tax obligation
▶ 3:00:35to the the asset holder the former asset holder if it's that's correct to to the o to the owner who sells the uh digital asset and so our issue here is the do um uh the the this type of exchange model not sending but the individual still o owes it the in the individual is not uh excused from the liability it's just there's not the rep the broker reporting um
▶ 3:01:05you have Broker rep if you sell through you know a Charles Schwab 100 shares of XYZ company Charles schab reports at the end of the calendar year gross proceeds and basis in information to you okay um Mr ble and maybe a a different um joint tax discussion of some of the data systems to actually um be able to follow the asset gain to the individual in this case instead of um it
▶ 3:01:36coming from The Brokerage statement um all right you you you answered at least for where where I was curious where the leakage was so thank you Mr chairman thank you are there additional technical questions on the resolution seeing none we will move to strike the last word does any member wish to strike the last word Mr Davis thank you Mr chairman you know as I look at this
▶ 3:02:06bill I believe that it weakens the Internal Revenue Services ability to detect and reduce cheating and criminal activity I believe that it will and has the potential to Aid tax cheats crypto Brokers drug King Pins and traitors the corruption
▶ 3:02:36that this bill Pooler fits right in with the Republican goal of ending tax enforcement for the wealthy fits right in with President Trump's pardoning of the criminals who assaulted police officers and threatened lawmakers on January 6 fits right in with the Trump refusal to enforce the Foreign Corrupt
▶ 3:03:06Practices Act our laws against election tampering by foreign countries and with President Trump's siding with Russia Ukraine and with his using the Department of Justice as a personal tool of Retribution the bill fits right in with disregard of spending laws to steal the money from not for
▶ 3:03:37profits the poor and the hungry to redirect to the businesses owned by Rich friends I even understand that agencies are trying to figure out how to move Grant funds to crypto exchanges to further grow the profits of the crypto Brokers and risk the finances of the federal government so the bill continues
▶ 3:04:07to be and would be about growing the wealth of the president and musk Buddies allow cheating on taxes and promote corruption so I'm opposed to it will vote against it I think mavelli would be proud of this bill and I go back Mr Miller
▶ 3:04:38thank you Mr chairman I move to strike the last word the irs's defi broker rule is a misguided and overreaching attempt to impose financial reporting requirements which represents a fundal Mis misunderstanding of digital assets and its underlying technology let's be clear di5 Protocols are not Brokers they don't custody assets facilitate transactions like traditional financial institutions nor can they collect and Report user information D5 protocols provide infrastructure not
▶ 3:05:08Financial intermediation expecting them to track and Report user activity is both impractical and misaligned with their core function yet the IRS wants to force software developers validators and even everyday users including more than 15% of Ohioans who own and trade crypto into compliance with regulations that simply don't fit this is the equivalent of requiring the Builders of our interstate highways to report the identity
▶ 3:05:38of every driver who uses them it's nuts it's unworkable unfair and it completely misses the Mark if enacted this rule would drive you us blockchain Innovation overseas killing jobs and stifling economic growth while doing little to actually increase tax compliance rather than imposing a framework that simply does not fit we need a regulatory approach that ensures fair tax compliance while recognizing the unique nature of decentralized Finance
▶ 3:06:09digital assets should be treated with the same level of clarity and consistency as traditional assets but that must be done in a way that account for these fundamental fundamental differences Congress should take the lead in crafting clear workable regulations that protect consumers support Innovation and provide the IRS with the tools it needs ensuring that Innovation isn't stifled and compliance remains practical thank you Mr chairman and I yield back thank you Mr
▶ 3:06:41berer thank you Mr chairman very much Mr chairman I I move to strike the last word and Mr chairman than you m Neil this seems the most outrageous use of the Congressional review act I've ever seen it lacks any common sense or Humanity by destroying defi crypto currency regulation this act empowers three evils that all of us Republicans and Democrats alike detest number one fentanyl fentanyl killing tens of thousands of our citizens every year 80,000 last year
▶ 3:07:11and unrecorded cryptocurrency transactions are essential to global fental trade cryptocurrency is how cartels launder their deadly criminal fental criminal proceeds and decentralized crypto exchanges have no administrator no Central entity and far too often they're neither recorded nor reported and not just fentel but the explosion of human trafficking the rape and exploitation of girls and women and children around the world is made possible by unreported crypto transactions How can any of my Republican friends who love their
▶ 3:07:41spouses and children's constituents possibly want to empower the most evil men on this planet number two we all hate terrorism if we remember all the lives lost on 911 all those in the wars fought in Afghanistan Iraq and Syria against Al-Qaeda Boko Haram Isis terrorists everywhere but hostile actors terrorists used Defi and untested wallet to make the cryto trans crypto transactions that fund their deadly activities North Korea's ballistic missile program is made possible by
▶ 3:08:12cryptocurrency those cyber attacks that shut down hospitals businesses governments the ransomers almost always paid in crypto and then there are US taxes legitimately owed under current law that go unpaid because of defi crypto Finance our joint committee on taxation estimates we lose $28 billion in legitimately owed taxes that is a huge amount of waste Fraud and Abuse that we are empowering with this Congressional review act this is a terrible Bill and a tragic misstep for our Republic are y back
▶ 3:08:43Mr Evans Mr chairman I moov to strike the last word this bill we are marking up today is just another Republican on working to protect the rich at the expense of the middle class by taking away the oversight and regulation of cryptocurrency we would be enabling bad financial actors these regulations are here for a reason they prohibit Shady
▶ 3:09:13actors from using crypto for illegal activity and without these regulations users would be able to to evade taxes cause significant losses in billions of Revenue this bill is just one example of deregulation from Republicans that allow their billionaire donors to make a profit at the expense of hardworking americ the GOP wants to repeal the good Biden Administration regulations
▶ 3:09:44so that their billionaire buddies can SKT tax laws we should be focusing on lowering cost for the middle class not creating tax rates for the alterate wealthy is common sense though we are here to mark up this bill I want to stress how Republicans on this committee are continue to act at as tough business as usual while vital programs that every American relies
▶ 3:10:14on on on on dozens of doors let's be clear they are trying to slash federal spending for Medicare snap order to provide handouts for Rich donors this is unacceptable I yield back Mr chairman Mr kry well thank you Mr chairman I move to strike the last word listen um I don't want to restate my opening statement but again this um this goes well beyond
▶ 3:10:44the scope of the infrastructure invest investment and jobs act instructions to the IRS and treasury which was the IRS broker rule I want to point out as my dear colleague and friend from Ohio pointed out that uh this is this is something that is fair um you know I think there are a lot of terms that I hope that uh my colleagues uh that that are on this Das will learn what a self- custodial wallet actually is what a non-custodial software actually is
▶ 3:11:15what private keys are this isn't a this isn't something for billionaires this is for everyday working Americans that are getting into this field and allowing us to unleash our Ingenuity As Americans so there are a lot of people a lot of organizations that support the CRA and I have a list in front of me Mr chairman that I would like to submit for the record of over a hundred stakeholders who are publicly supporting
▶ 3:11:45the CRA this is a it's a great this is a great piece it is bipartisan and I urge all my colleagues to support the C with that Mr chairman I yield back without objection submitted to the record um Mr Schnider uh thank you Mr chairman I mooved to strike the last word so um I appreciate the chance to discuss this uh legislation we're talking about and in general I'm not a fan of C I also have serious concerns for
▶ 3:12:16this specific C and the far-reaching consequences of eliminating treasury's ability to require reporting for decentralized cryptocurrency exchanges I hear the argument my colleagues are making but while some people might be benefiting who aren't billionaires in this that's not where the debate is there are a lot of Nefarious groups and individuals who use cryptocurrency for um nefarious means and it's almost as if you're saying well
▶ 3:12:46we're going to create another path through TSA not everyone will have to go through having the ability to oversee is critical and the CRA measure we are jamming through committee today I think fails to recognize that and is th shortsighted repealing the reporting requirements for peer-to-peer cryptocurrency exchanges is I believe a recipe for disaster this CRA would make it more difficult for taxpayers to file their taxes correctly and for the IRS to collect what is owed what's more removing the reporting requirements would
▶ 3:13:16push more people to conduct crypto trading using decentralized platforms which operate without that traditional oversight and as I said attract nefarious actors to fund illicit activities we are having these requirements that we are are trying to be overturned with this bill for a low cost of only $3.9 million removing the only reporting requirements for decentralized exchanges only for decentralized exchanges
▶ 3:13:46this CR would needlessly create a strange discrepancy between what is required from decentralized exchanges and centralized exchanges as Mr barold suggested earlier in the Q&A some might move well economics dictate if there is a path with less friction a path with less reporting requirements not some but most if not all will move there what's more decentralized Finance platforms operate operate outside
▶ 3:14:16of traditional oversight allowing Bad actors to exploit the gaps in anti-money laundering protections and can move digital assets without accountability through decentralized platforms what I'm talking about is not just hypothetical we know that Hamas has moved large sums of money through crypto-based transactions the Democratic People's Republic of Korea cyber actors use Central decentralized Finance services to transfer and launder money they're using for their nefarious purposes
▶ 3:14:47and the treasury Department has already sanctioned the ex exchange cryptex for laundering hundreds of millions of dollars through crypto to support Russian interest as a member of the Foreign Affairs committee I'm deeply worried about the message this would send to our foreign adversaries who would find these exchanges attractive because their ident identities are more obscured transparency measures like the reporting requirements that this CRA would eliminate help mitigate the risk to our country and
▶ 3:15:17our people increasing transparency along with other measures to close gaps in current regulations is key to countering hostile actors and terrorist groups like Kamas reporting requirements are but one tool in the toolbox to find elicit actors and this CRA will hinder our efforts I oppose the measure and I urge my colleagues to do the same thank you and I yield back Mr doet thank you Mr chairman as has been noted this week seven Internal Revenue Service former
▶ 3:15:47Commissioners including the Commissioners for Ronald Reagan George Bush Senor George W bush and yes even the appointment by Donald Trump during his first term uh expressed concern together about the dismissal of IRS employees but they had more to say than just the uh incredible loss of service during tax filing season when they wrote quote this will shift the burden of funding the government
▶ 3:16:18from people who Sherk their taxes to the honest people who pay them and that's exactly what this bill does it just creates another Avenue for people who Sherk their taxes to avoid paying them now which public official would you suppose would stand to directly benefit from this measure well it might well be the self-proclaimed King it might be the IND individual who some
▶ 3:16:48Republican members want to carve his face into Mount Rushmore or declare a national holiday in his honor a fellow named Donald Trump the man who bragged that quote I'm smart for not paying taxes he so far already made tens of millions of dollars in fees by launching his own Trump meme coin just on the eve of going to the White House Trump and his sons have launched a business called World Liber Financial which
▶ 3:17:18seeks to become the future of decentralized Finance the same decentralized finance that uh uh overruling uh this regulation will assure can operate uh in a way that involves no accountability this is all about what this bill is designed to accomplish the Federal Reserve board has said that only about 7% of Americans have even bought bought or sold cryptocurrency
▶ 3:17:48the vast majority of that is being traded in centralized exchange uh exchanges like coinbase or binance as Brokers for other Financial products such as stocks and mutual funds these crypto exchanges are required to give their customers a 1099 form to report their gains and losses today's bill of course uh is designed to assure that those regulatory requirements don't apply to a decentralized Iz exchange operated
▶ 3:18:19by the trumps since the most much rarer decentralized Finance exchanges are usually uh relied upon by the wealthier and well finan the Republicans are not surprisingly seeking special treatment for these well-connected donors creating a new loophole through which those at the top can avoid paying their share bark Le not exactly a progressive uh Source suggests that at least half of the taxes owed on cryptocurrency
▶ 3:18:50transactions already go unpaid costing at least 50 billion dollar per year in Lost tax revenues there's simply no reason why these decentralized exchanges like other Brokers within crypto and the larger financial service industry should be exempt from reporting by exempting these exchanges from sensible regulations that apply to others in the family cial service industry we are opening the door also to
▶ 3:19:20drug trafficking and terrorist Finance again I would turn to a republican Source Senator Bill Cassidy who said quote cryptocurrency has played an increasingly prominent role in the global fentanyl trade both in terms of manufacturing and trafficking of Fentanyl and in laundering drug cartels criminal proceeds this is particularly true he says of so-called decentralized exchanges and according to the nonpartisan fact Coalition
▶ 3:19:50cryptocur currency is becoming attractive to hostile actors who seek ways to sidestep sanctions like Hamas which is relied on it so recognizing the overwhelming success of the pharmaceutical industry in controlling this Congress the crypto folks are believed to have contributed $30 million in Congressional campaigns last year I think that they made a very wise interest for their uh
▶ 3:20:21self-interest and now it's time that they're collecting the dividends we should reject this new tax loophole that's destined to be exploited by wealthy tax cheats drug traffickers and terrorist fin finers I yield back does any additional members wish to strike the last word seeing none we will move to amendments are there any amendments to the resolution since there are no amendments
▶ 3:20:51um I will now recognize Mr Buchanan for the purpose of offering a motion Mr chairman I move the committee favorably report HJ res25 to the House of Representatives the question is on the motion to favorably report HJ res25 to the House of Representatives the clerk will call the role Mr banan yes Mr banan yes Mr Smith of Nebraska Mr Smith of nebras Nebraska yes Mr Kelly Mr Kelly yes
▶ 3:21:21Mr schwier Mr Le Hood Mr Le Hood yes Mr Arrington Mr Estus Mr Estus yes Mr smucker Mr smucker yes Mr Hearn Mr Hearn yes Mrs Miller Dr Murphy Dr Murphy yes Mr
▶ 3:21:51kustoff Mr kustoff yes Mr Fitzpatrick Mr Fitzpatrick yes Mr stuie Mr stuie yes Miss tinny Miss tinny yes Mrs fishbach Mrs fishbach yes Mr Moore Mr Moore yes Miss vany Miss vany yes Mr finstra Mr finstra yes Miss malot Takis Miss malot Takis yes Mr Cary
▶ 3:22:22Mr Cary yes Mr yakum yes Mr yakum yes Mr Miller Mr Miller yes Mr Bean Mr Bean yes Mr Moran Mr Moran yes Mr Neil Mr Neil no Mr dogget Mr doet no Mr Thompson Mr Thompson no Mr lson Mr Larsson
▶ 3:22:53no Mr Davis Mr Davis no Miss Sanchez Miss Sanchez no Miss Su Miss Del Ben Miss Del Ben no Miss Chu Miss Chu no Miss Moore Miss Moore no Mr Bole
▶ 3:23:24Byer Mr Evans Mr Evans no Mr Schneider Mr Schneider no Mr Panetta Mr Panetta no Mr Gomez Mr Gomez no Mr horseford Miss plaset Miss plaset no Mr swazi
▶ 3:23:54Mr no Mr schwier Mr schwier yes Mr Arrington Mr Arrington yes Mrs Miller Mrs Miller yes
▶ 3:24:26Su Mr Bole Mr Byer no Mr Byer no Mr Horford chairman Smith yes chairman Smith yes
▶ 3:25:12the clerk will report the vote the yeses are 26 the NOS are 16 there being 26 yeses and 16 NOS the emotion is agreed to in HJ res 25 is ordered favorably reported to the house without objections without objection members have two additional days to file with the committee clerk supplemental additional dissenting or minority views there being no further business before the committee the committee stands a
▶ 3:25:45journ e