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▶ 0:17:09the subcommittee on housing and insurance will come to order without objection the chair is authorized to declare a recess a recess of the committee at any time this hearing is titled building our future increasing housing Supply in America without objection all members will have five legislative days within which to submit extraneous materials to the chair for inclusion in the record I now recognize myself for four minutes for an opening statement I'm pleased to call to order the first housing
▶ 0:17:39and insurance subcommittee hearing of the 119th Congress before discussing the subject of this hearing I'd like to welcome my friends on both sides of the aisle to this important subcommittee the jurisdiction of the housing and insurance committee touches every single congressional district and I look forward to working with each of you on the issues that affect your constituents I'm a straight shooter I don't hide the ball and I will do my best to be fair to everyone on this subcommittee regardless of political affiliation with that let me pivot to an introduction of
▶ 0:18:09today's hearing the issue we're exploring today is one that touches the lives of every single American both in the Towering cities on the coast and in rural communities in the middle of the country and that is the cost of housing according to the National Association of Realtors the median annual existing home price in 2024 was up 69% relative to 1995 and that's adjusted for inflation this housing affordability challenge affects everyone young people saving up to buy
▶ 0:18:39their first home are renting for longer middleclass workers are struggling to make the rent and Americans today feel less secure about their financial future because their bills are going up when it comes to housing affordability I hope this hearing will help contextualize this problem and give members of our sub committee an opportunity to explore root causes let's start with a few things we can rule out the problem is not the that people aren't making enough money wages are up over
▶ 0:19:09the last several years the problem is not that people aren't saving enough money savings exploded during the covid-19 pandemic and have only recently trended back downwards it's also not that the government doesn't spend enough money on federal programs we are coming off a period with historic levels of government spending the reason for high housing costs is simple we are not building enough homes in this country to meet the demand some estimates put the gap between housing
▶ 0:19:39supply and demand at around 3.85 million units Nationwide some put it even higher at more than 5 million units the root of that housing supply problem is a little trickier to pin down uh to just one cause regulatory barriers at the state and local level like zoning and Landing use policies play a large role in making it more difficult to create more housing in places that needed another driver is the actual cost of materials and the cost of Labor used to build a home for
▶ 0:20:09projects that use federal dollars either through lowincome housing tax credit or funds from a federal program like the home investment partnership those dollars aren't free they come with regulatory requirements to the federal level that can make it more challenging to actually give taxpayers the best bang for their buck and finally we can explore whether there are any challenges related to the financing side that keeps projects from getting off the ground I am excited to dig deeper into each of these issues today and I look forward to our
▶ 0:20:40witness's testimony with that I yield back the chair now recognizes the ranking member of the subcommittee Mr Cleaver for four minutes for an opening statement thank you Mr chairman and uh I look forward to working with you uh I am absolutely elated over the fact fact that uh we have uh issues that we both would like to resolve uh in these key positions so thank you very much uh for your receptivity this is
▶ 0:21:10the first hearing of the subcommittee on housing and insurance in the 119th Congress our nation is struggling with a hair a fair housing uh and affordable housing crisis in 2023 Americans filed a record-breaking number of fair housing complaints at the same time the cost of renting and purchasing a home has reached historic Heights since 2019 rents in the United States have 46.8% the average
▶ 0:21:40sales price of a home now exceeds half of a half a million dollar when a typical family sits at the table to pencil out how they will get by for the next month in Missouri or in Nebraska or anywhere else for that matter housing is the single largest expense and I appreciate uh your willingness Mr chairman to engage with me on what are clearly Common Sense Solutions it is my hope that we pass bipartisan legislation into law
▶ 0:22:10that will improve the quality of life for American families I support the identifying regulatory barriers to housing Supply act under consideration today local jurisdictions are rightfully asking the federal government for funding and resources tackling this housing crisis it is responsible I think to ask them to assess how local land use policies are limiting the impact of the federal funding and driving up the very cost they're trying to reduce
▶ 0:22:40some jurisdictions have made developing more housing illegal or cost prohibitive others are doing an incredible job figuring out how to optimize their zoning laws and are welcoming innovation in design technology and construction I also support the housing Supply and Innovation framework act under consideration which would require HUD to study develop and publish guidelines and best practices for local zoning these are constructive pieces of legislation zoning reforms
▶ 0:23:10are absolutely necessary but not sufficient by themselves Senator Elizabeth Warren Senator Rafael warock and I have introduced the American housing and economic Mobility act this legislation would generate 3 million new housing units and bring down rents this is also a constructive approach it goes without saying that reported efforts to to decimate HUD funding programs or staff is not constructive it would also not be constructive for Congress to pass housing legislation that HUD does not
▶ 0:23:40have the capacity or the resources to uh to imp Implement yesterday I joined ranking member Waters and others uh at her to elevate current concerns about executive actions this demonstration followed reports that the department terminated hundreds of pro probationary employees reportedly plans to slash the Department's Workforce by one half and has already withheld funding serving families seniors and people with disabilities the Congressional public housing caucus has also
▶ 0:24:10sent a letter to secretary Turner on how Cuts would exacerbate the housing crisis and increase waste Fraud and Abuse we have requested an urgent meeting with the secretary secretary Turner testified to Congress that he would run an transparent and accountable Department thank you again Mr chairman I look forward to hearing to this hearing to today looking forward to working with you I yield back thank you Mr cleever the chair now recognizes the chairman of the full committee Mr Hill for one minute I want to thank my friend from Nebraska chairman flood for assuming the
▶ 0:24:41gavel on this important subcommittee our housing and insurance subcommittee Mr flood has been long interested as you can tell in his opening statement in rolling up his sleeves and doing the hard work first to understand the challenges before reaching out in a bipartisan way and looking for Solutions this hearing is a great example of that approach the typical family median cost of an FHA insured home in my home state of Arkansas is $175,000 in 2020 the 30-year mortgage rate was 3.1%
▶ 0:25:12with a 10% down payment that family could be in that house for $680 a month now after Biden's inflation the mortgage rate is 6.8% and that monthly payment's now over $1,000 Plus in Arkansas the average homeowners insurance rates are $3,300 in 2023 now they're up 33 up 9% to $3,600 so housing affordability is important not only in Arkansas and Missouri and Nebraska but across the country I look forward
▶ 0:25:42to working with my colleagues and I yeld back to the chair chairman eel's back today we welcome the testimony of The Honorable Paul Compton a managing partner at Compton Jones dresser LLC we welcome Dr Emily Hamilton who is a senior research fellow and director of the urbanity project at the mercus center at George Mason University we welcome Mr Buddy Hughes who is the chairman of the board with the National Association of
▶ 0:26:12homebuilders we welcome Miss Tara vasichek who is the city administrator for the city of Columbus Nebraska and we welcome Miss nikra Bailey the Executive Vice President with the National Fair Housing Alliance we want to thank each of you for taking the time to be here each of you will be recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony without objection your written statements will be made part of the record I would add that when the
▶ 0:26:43uh ranking member of the full Financial Services committee Miss Walters Walters arrives we will take a short break and uh and ask her to make remarks for one minute Mr Compton you are now recognized for five minutes for your oral remarks thank you chairman fled ranking member Cleaver chairman Hill members of the subcommittee thank for this opportunity testify and share my perspectives on increasing the housing
▶ 0:27:13Supply I have practiced law at the intersection of real estate banking tax and affordable housing for more than 30 years after my Senate confirmation in a bipartisan vote in 2017 I served as general Council of Hud under secretary Carson since that time I've returned to Private Practice focusing on affordable housing in July 2024 I had the privilege of testifying before this subcommittee concerning cutting through government red tape in order to increase the supply
▶ 0:27:44and affordability of housing I appreciate this opportunity to follow up on that in that testimony I express my view that overregulation particularly at the state and local levels has driven up housing prices the biggest part of the solution in my view lies in restoring checks and balances at those same levels to curb The Continuous growth in housing regulation over the past 40 years numerous studies establish several facts the real cost of housing construction
▶ 0:28:14has not meaningfully increased over the past 40 years when adjusted for inflation the real cost of housing has substantially outstripped inflation over that period and the core components of that excess cost are land cost driven by land use regulation the direct cost of Regulation and the indirect cost of Regulation raising risk of creating homes from Community to community and indeed from federal agency to Federal
▶ 0:28:45agency there's great variation in the nature of Regulation how Massachusetts is regulating housing is different from California which is certainly different from Texas moreover how HUD regulates how housing is different from how USDA regulates housing one result of this is the housing market particularly for single family and smaller multif family developments is incredibly localized in nature thus I believe that the first conclusion for this committee is that there is not one or even
▶ 0:29:15two or three problems but there are many many I believe that we must first view this systematically that is how can our overall governing structures be adjusted so that there's not a continuing bias to more regul ation second we must look aggressively for each opportunity to pair back regulations in the federal context I can give one example of this under Hud's National Environmental Policy Act regulations nearly every program from FHA Loans to
▶ 0:29:45cdgb to home program grants requires a governmental environmental review and notification process for the public there are thousands if not tens of thousands of these each year yet over the last six years as this process has delayed countless projects by many months and cost millions of dollars it has resulted in a grand total of four environmental impact statements we simply are regulating in a way that is
▶ 0:30:15excessive in light of the benefits that it's producing and in many cases as I noted it's not just merely the cost of the red uh tape and regulation but it is the increase in Risk R there are several other elements that I would like to specifically call out as I noted first of all it is eliminating most or perhaps all H HUD programs from the coverage of NEPA under the r revised definition contained in
▶ 0:30:45the fiscal responsibility Act of 2023 they simply do not meet the definition of a major federal action this does not mean that any of the substantive environmental requirements change but only that the bureaucratic process of notice and review does second make Federal property available for housing this is more difficult than it sounds but there is one clear and easy way to do it and that is through the authority of the Department of Defense to enter into enhanced
▶ 0:31:16use leases which provide ground leases that could then be combined with FHA financing to create housing in these locations we look in under secretary Carson many times at using federal land for housing and it's incredibly challenging to do that but the military through its enhanced use lease program can easily do that if we can just get HUD and DOD on the same page next I would reconsider the
▶ 0:31:46scope of limitations caused by habitat restrictions in particular the the northern long-eared bat this covers almost the entire Eastern United States and causes many many delays in projects Mr chairman thank you I'll be delighted to answer questions uh on this and other topics thank you Mr Compton Dr Hamilton you are now recognized for five minutes for your oral remarks thank you chair flood ranking member Cleaver and members of the subcommittee I'm Emily
▶ 0:32:16Hamilton a senior research fellow at the mercada center at George Mason University outdated land use and building regulations that restrict housing Supply and drive up costs are a key dri driver of the affordability problems we're discussing today while state and local governments play the primary role in shaping these policies Federal action matters too in some cases federal policies directly limit housing Supply and in others Congress can provide leadership by supporting state
▶ 0:32:46and local reformers working to modernize rules today I'll highlight three areas where Congress can help state and local policy makers learn from what's working and repeal its own rules that are standing in the way of housing construction first reforming land use regulations second expanding opportunities for citing manufactured housing and third introducing improved analysis into the building code development process
▶ 0:33:17to the first area reforming land use regulations rules that require each housing unit to use a lot of land place a high floor on the cost of building but but we have many examples of reforms that facilitate improved affordability for example Houston reduced the amount of land required for each new single family house by 2third as a result of this policy change 880,000 houses have been built on small lots and Houston is the most affordable large Sun
▶ 0:33:47Belt Metro Congress could facilitate knowledge sharing by directing HUD to publish model policies for facilitating new less expensive housing Construction based on proven land use reforms like this it could also lead by example by repealing the height of building act the height of buildings act for DC which squeezes Apartments out of the city's Central business district to the second area expanding opportunities for citing manufactured housing manufactured
▶ 0:34:17housing is the least expensive way to build a new home in the US today however many localities are choosing not to Zone land for new manufactured housing Congress members could sing the Praises of policy makers in States including Maryland Montana and Nebraska who have passed laws requiring their localities to allow manufactured housing to be used on any lot where siteb built housing would be allowed as well as policy makers in States like Arkansas and
▶ 0:34:48Texas who have banned aesthetic requirements that may make manufactured housing impractical federal statute currently requires every manufact ured house to sit on a permanent steel chassis even if the house is going to be attached to a foundation never to be moved after after its delivery from the factory Congressional reform could improve the affordability of manufactured housing by removing this permanent steel chassis requirement reducing costs and opening up opportunities
▶ 0:35:18for more flexible use of manufactured units and finally introducing economic analysis into the building code develop vment process while Hud's code for manufactured housing provides the most economical way to build new housing today most new housing is built according to a state or local building code in the US these codes are based on model codes published by the International Code Council a 2022 survey found that just those building
▶ 0:35:49code regulations adopted in the past 10 years make up 11% of the cost of building new apartment buildings Americans deserve building codes that achieve High safety standards while remaining costeffective but the model codes that provide the foundation of us building codes are not based on rigorous analysis HUD could help by creating model codes for areas where state and local policy makers are expressing interest in reform including a code for single
▶ 0:36:19stair multif family buildings up to six stories and a version of the international residential code that could cover up to six units to conclude the heavy lifting in zoning and building code reform must come from state and local policy makers but Congress can Aid these efforts by shining a light on successful policies and repealing its own roles that are standing in the way of more housing at better prices thank you thank you Dr Hamilton Mr
▶ 0:36:49Hughes you are now recognized for five minutes for your oral remarks thank you chairman flood ranking member caver chairman Hill and members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf nahb the United States is facing a fever pitched housing affordability crisis 77% of us households cannot afford just the median price of a new single family home
▶ 0:37:19even small price increases have sharp effects every time $1,000 gets added to the C cost of a home a new home an additional 106,000 households are priced out of the market what's fueling this unaffordability are rising construction costs which make it increasingly difficult for Builders to produce housing that is attainable for buyers and renters and lack of supply of over
▶ 0:37:501.5 million housing units the headwinds placing pressure on Builders can be boiled down to 5 categories that we call the five L's lending Lots labor Lumber laws last year nahb released a 10-point plan to tame shelter inflation and ease the housing affordability crisis we must work together to tackle these issues to ensure that all Americans
▶ 0:38:20have access to affordable housing on lending allow La of capital particularly for small Builders is a key constraint on Supply the adnc loan is one of the most heavily used financing Tools in a builder's credit toolbox unfortunately adnc credit is tightening home builders rely on Community Banks for these loan products but fewer Banks mean fewer
▶ 0:38:50opportunities for a competitive interest rate in addition to adnc builders utilize and rely on several Federal programs to help them Supply new homes and apartments these programs should be preserved and strengthened strengthened through practical regulatory processes the availability of building Lots is a major issue limiting housing production many Metro areas face a shortage of developed land zoning
▶ 0:39:20laws and land use restrictions make it difficult to convert undeveloped land into housing passing the Chairman's identifying regulatory barriers to housing Supply act will help policy makers identify housing barriers that prevent the Prov production of more Supply our nation's skilled labor force cannot meet our housing needs month to month there are over 300,000 open positions we must support
▶ 0:39:50programs like job core and legislation like the constructs act to help prepare young adults for rewarding in construction and other essential trades the cost and availability of materials particularly Lumber significantly affect housing production while lumber prices have fluctuated supply chain instability and tariffs on imported materials continue to create uncertainty for Builders
▶ 0:40:21boosting our domestic supply of lumber and negotiating a long-term softwood Lumber agreement with can Canada can help stabilize this volatile Market giving Builders greater price stability we respect regulation aimed at health safety and Welfare however the HUD USDA minimum energy standards using the 20201 iecc offers minimal cost savings to homeowners Instead This mandate
▶ 0:40:51significantly increases housing cost especially in the entry-level Market thereby limiting access to mortgage financing and disadvantaging buyers HUD and USDA should assist vulnerable home buyers and renters not price them out of the market this policy will deter new construction at a time when increasing the housing Supply is crucial to lowering shelter inflation cost thank you again for this
▶ 0:41:21opportunity the five L's lending Lots labor Lumber and laws are sign ific headwinds facing the residential construction industry but if we partner together to address each factor then we'll be able to create the housing Supply that all Americans need thank you again thank you Mr Hughes miss terara vasich you are now recognized for five minutes for your oral remarks good afternoon chairman flood ranking member Cleaver and subcommittee members
▶ 0:41:52thank you for the opportunity to testify today and provide a local perspective on the Nationwide hous housing crisis I am the city administrator for the city of Columbus Nebraska Columbus had made significant efforts to increase housing production recognizing a lack of available housing directly impacts our economic growth Workforce attraction and retention as well as quality of life through strategic initiatives we have increased Housing Development significantly however despite our proactive approach and continued commitment
▶ 0:42:22to housing the issue remains housing production is not meeting demand a few of the actions we've taken locally include removing locally controlled regulatory barriers direct investment in Housing Development and utilizing and leveraging all of the beneficial tools and incentives available to us over the past 5 years Columbus has undertaken multiple updates to Our Land Development regulations to remove barriers to housing production many cities have regulations that limit housing density Columbus does
▶ 0:42:52not accessory dwelling units mixed use types are allowed by right and zones we have changed our codes to make infill development and adaptive reuse easy to complete our local permitting process is efficient all housing permits are issued within two weeks of the city receiving a completed application currently the city is leading a Workforce Housing Development subdivision there are currently 325 housing units of various densities being constructed six times
▶ 0:43:23the units produced annually a short time ago the other major Financial tool used for this project tax increment financing or Tiff similar to tax abatement in other states Tiff allows for the capture of up to 15 years of property taxes paid on the Project's improvements to use as funding to build out the project Tiff is the most efficient tool available to Nebraska communities for housing development in addition to Tiff the city allows or allocates a portion of local sales
▶ 0:43:53tax to Economic Development primarily this funding goes to housing we have also been successful in securing many grants we currently have a significant revolving Loan Fund which acts as short-term Gap financing for Workforce housing projects Columbus is very strategic when deciding what state and federal grants we pursue many grants introduce excessive regulatory hurdles leading to time delays increased project cost and long-term management challenges
▶ 0:44:23these factors also negatively impact construction because they often and limit the number of Builders who are willing to participate in a housing market as dire as the current Builders are not going they are going to pick the path of leas resistance despite our efforts to increase housing production significant obstacles remain which continue to impede development locally rising land and infrastructure costs are a significant challenge at the state and federal levels complex regulations at additional time and expense
▶ 0:44:53the Federal Regulation that we hear the most negative ity about related to cost is the EPA storm water management policies adds hundreds of thousands of dollars to subdivisions cdbg is a federal program the city of Columbus would like to utilize more for housing but the beneficiary requirements often prevent us from seeking this funding in order to provide housing affordable to individuals earning 50 to 80% Ami substantial incentives in addition to cdbg have
▶ 0:45:24to be provided the most affordable housing in any City will always be its existing housing stock not new construction affordable new housing units can only be built because of substantial incentives and subsidies supporting Workforce housing with cdbg could be very successful by expanding market rate housing in growing cities like Columbus you will also free up more attainable and affordable housing options which cdbg aims to support finally I would ask you to
▶ 0:45:54consider providing more funding opportunities for communities like Columbus who have reformed local regulations and are being proactive by prioritizing funding for communities which have embraced reform you can accelerate housing production and ensure local initiatives are met with the necessary resources to succeed I strongly believe today housing is one of the greatest limiting factors to continued economic prosperity for our nation please join Columbus and so many other cities in thinking more critically
▶ 0:46:25about how we can all solve this vitally important issue thank you for your time attention and this opportunity thank you very much Miss Bailey you are now recognized for five minutes for your remarks while we work on your microphone we're going to recognize the ranking member of the full Financial Services committee for her opening remarks of one minute and we will work with Miss Bailey's microphone to get it fixed
▶ 0:46:55thank you very much well commited Republicans claim to care about increasing housing Supply yet the Trump administration's policies only make housing more expensive TR today uh Trump imposed taxes on imports from uh Canada and Mexico that will increase housing costs has gutted enforcement of Consumer Protections and civil rights in housing and House Republicans are doing nothing
▶ 0:47:26as the do camine Clan infiltrates the nation's key housing agency so far musk has stolen funding from communities illegally terminated staff and access confidential data including details about sexual assaults against women all of this paves way toward their end goal evict America to put America's housing in the hands of private Equity investors I urge Republicans to man up
▶ 0:47:56and hold Trump Trump and co-president musk accountable and immediately call Secretary Turner up to testify with that I Ash Anonymous consent to submit four statements into the record from the following organizations the national L Income Housing Coalition the National Association of Housing and Redevelopment officials the NAACP legal defense fund and National Association of Realtors I also request unanimous consent to submit two letters from the Department
▶ 0:48:26of Housing and Urban Development the first is a notice to a grantee that their fair housing Grant has been cancelled at the direction of Elon M Doge without objection stating that the Civil Rights funding quote no longer affects the program goals or agency priorities there's more but I'm going to yield back my time because I just want to say Republicans if you want to do housing you got to get rid of Elon Musk your time has expired without objection Miss Bailey is your mic
▶ 0:48:56mhone Man Miss Bailey why don't you in uh this Bessa check switch seats for just a m there there we go Miss bail you're recognized for your opening statement your oral statement of five minutes thank you Sher
▶ 0:49:26flood Rank and member Cleaver cheer Hill Rank and member Waters and other distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify during today's hearing on the need to increase the nation's supply of fair and affordable housing for everyday people including the Frontline workers such as teachers nurses firefighters police officers and others who sacrificed their lives during the covid-19 crisis to help our economy remain afloat I am nikit relly Executive Vice President of the National Fair Housing Alliance NAA
▶ 0:49:57leads to fair housing movement and we work to eliminate housing discrimination and ensure Equitable housing opportunities for all people and communities NAFA also ensures and represents the voices of over 200 local nonprofit fair housing agencies throughout the United States our nation is in a fair and affordable housing crisis impacting millions and the actions of President Trump's executive orders attempting to ban diversity Equity inclusion and accessibility
▶ 0:50:27punitively and halfhazard throwing together a federal funding freeze and cancelling almost half of funding for local nonprofit their housing agencies throughout the United States have caused chaos fear insecurity and dysfunction around the country instead of providing our nation with practical solutions to address Skyrocket and housing costs a lack of affordable housing Supply increased complaints of housing discrimination and Technologies growing Row in determining housing decisions with Solutions steps on the ladders
▶ 0:50:57of opportunity are being removed for everyday people these halfhazard executive actions will cause serious economic and personal injuries that will undermine our already fragile housing market in Our Nation Housing is fundamental to the American dream and people want elected leaders to quickly Implement Solutions so that they can ensure they can fairly access opportunity and share in our nation's Prosperity people are seeking opportunities and solutions that will drive down the rising cost of housing and provide Fair Market rents
▶ 0:51:27expand Fair access to mortgage credit and underserved communities reduce homeowners insurance costs and produce the development of over 5 million affordable housing units diversity Equity inclusion and accessibility are synonymous with hard work fairness Merit and standards of excellence they are a Cornerstone of our nation's Constitution and civil rights laws and help to ensure compliance with our nation's robust anti-discrimination laws in fact many of these concepts are C ified in our civil rights
▶ 0:51:57laws and regulations as well as the Constitution Congress established fair housing as a national policy of the United States with the passage of the fair housing act following the horrific assassination of Dr Martin Luther King Jr The Landmark legislation provides two promises the right for all people to Access housing free of discrimination and the inclusion and the creation and inclusion of inclusive vibrant communities with life affirming amenities everyone needs to thrive the president
▶ 0:52:28cannot upend our country's National policy the Constitution or civil rights laws with executive orders Congress must act quickly to make Equitable housing investments that promote Financial inclusion and stimulate economic growth for everyone as housing continues to drive inflation the Federal Reserve board is powerless to handle housing inflation a housing market in which all people cannot participate fairly without regard to race color national origin religion
▶ 0:52:58gender familial status or disability is a broken Market both economically and morally the housing crisis response act sponsored by Rik and member Waters provides a sensible path forward it includes 150 billion dollars in relief for the nation's fair and affordable housing crisis to ensure people living in urban Rural and Suburban communities housing needs are met increased support and intervention from our federal government is needed not a withdrawal from basic civil rights
▶ 0:53:28fear housing laws improve people's lives in the communities in which they live especially seniors needing to remain housed women who have been battered and are seeking safety from abusers and people with disability who use fair housing laws to obtain accessible housing so they can properly use their kitchens and bathrooms they also strengthen our economy and make the nation more prosperous America is at its best when United and relentlessly pursuing a country where everyone and we
▶ 0:53:59mean everyone regardless of their background has a fair shot at reaching their American dream thank you for the opportunity I look forward to answering questions thank you Miss Bailey we'll now turn to member questions the chair now recognizes himself for five minutes questioning first of all I want to say to uh Miss uh vasichek uh thank you for your testimony today and thank you for telling the story of the workforce housing challenges in Columbus Nebraska let me tell you about this community 24,000
▶ 0:54:29people live there it has a huge manufacturing base that pulls from well over 50,000 in the region last February uh this time last year they had 1,200 open jobs unemployment's at 1% and the number one limiting factor to filling those jobs was a lack of housing a lack of housing if you are a mother and a father and you're both working at a meat packing plant in Cargill and you're working 50 hours a week you deserve a home you deserve
▶ 0:54:59a home that you can own in a neighborhood where your kids can walk to school and you can uh take him to the park and we have all of those amenities but we don't have the houses and so it's not just a housing issue it's an economic development issue Miss vasichek do you have any examples you can share of how a lack of housing stock prevented private investment into the community whether it be from a company locating operations in Columbus or expanding operations there I hear about at every Economic
▶ 0:55:30Development related visit meeting I hear about this whether it's a current business or a business that we're trying to attract Columbus to Columbus the number one topic is housing followed quickly by Workforce and they go hand inand in our opinion we can't attract more Workforce if they have nowhere to live I've heard of countless stories of businesses hiring ing um people on and then them end up they end up turning
▶ 0:56:00the job down because they can't find housing in Columbus so one of the things I really want to unpack here is that Columbus took its own sales tax money that it gets from uh through the state of Nebraska it's local share its local option and you actually went out bought land put the infrastructure into the ground and made those lots available to reduce the risk homebuilders would have so that they could deliver a better priced home to somebody in Columbus is that right that's correct
▶ 0:56:31so here's an example of a city government in a rural area using existing sales tax revenue imagine if we did this for cities like it across the country where the Builder could come in the infrastructures in the ground the benefit of that Government funding ultimately acrs to the new homeowner building equity and helping them get started and the other thing that I think is very important here is that we should be building these homes in the middle of the town
▶ 0:57:01where there are parks and schools because kids learn better in great neighborhoods all right let's let's go to Dr Hamilton uh you focused your testimony on zoning and land use policies at the local level what should the federal government do in these areas while respecting the authority of localities to make their own specific policies thank you chair fled that's an important question um while some have propose more radical interventions I think this area needs to stay squarely in the hands
▶ 0:57:32of state and local government officials but as we're hearing from constituents in so many parts of the the country this is a huge problem for American families and there's bipartisan agreement that these rules need to get reformed so I think there's an important knowledge sharing role and uh use of the bully pulpit available to members of Congress to point to proven examples of reforms that are making meaningful differences in housing Supply and
▶ 0:58:02affordability uh miss vasichek you you talked a little bit about the environmental requirements affecting a small community like Columbus what's the real barrier there like what kind of what kind of barriers have you seen with these environmental regulations the regulations I spoke of are specifically related to storm water um we have in the last 10 years years been required to any project that is over an acre disturbs more than an acre
▶ 0:58:32of Site Area has to go through very stringent um storm water management regulations and permanent infrastructure improvements so that is that engineering cost that understanding those regulations and then building out those improvements is considerable cost to Developers one I don't have much time here but one last question rehab funding for existing housing stock how can it be used and
▶ 0:59:03what would you is is it something you care about oh yes it's something we care about a lot we use our local option sales tax for that too we could use considerably more um for owner occupied rehab um our local option sales tax has regrettably I've just stopped you there I'm out of time so uh have to enforce it on myself but thank you very much for being here the gentleman from Missouri Mr Cleaver the ranking member is now recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chairman uh
▶ 0:59:33I'll I miss baay but I I want to go to you Mr vess um you your testimony was extremely significant to me because I you you talked about Workforce housing um and you you used Tax increments and that is using tax increment financing what um I I was mayor before I took this to motion but
▶ 1:00:04um I'm I'm cons I'm curious about what was done in this in in this community because uh when you use tax increment financing when most cities many cities it ends up being that you draw the the uh Tiff district and most communities are going to try to draw at least a portion of their District all of it if possible uh into some of the older parts of the city inevitably uh if you go down into downtown
▶ 1:00:34Kansas City you're going to find you're going to see uh all kinds of new buildings uh going up in Kansas City with and they're receiving Tiff but if you go into the older parts of the neighborhood even though those areas have been uh left been designed as Tiff districts not one single project and i' I've been around the country and I've seen similar similar things I'm just so interested in in in uh what Columbus uh did to attract housing tiffs
▶ 1:01:04um specifically for the project that I referenced in my testimony the city of Columbus um we work very hard to make connections with housing builders and then we did we made lots of connections we built relationships and then we had individual meetings and we put together a request for proposals and in that request we um targeted thep types of housing that we needed that we need in Columbus um and then we put that request for proposals out and we sent it to almost 70
▶ 1:01:35housing builders in our region and we received 10 maybe really good submitt for our subdivision and we selected five of those to build in our subdivision and that is who is building out this 25 acre project like uh Congress and our representative fled said we are um very active in being involved with our community because our business Community
▶ 1:02:05is is absolutely uh requiring that of us that's why we're more active than we ever have been thank you I wouldn't mind taking a a view of of what what's been done I think that's if you if if there if there's a a magical way of of of getting interest I'm certainly interested in it uh thank you very much uh Mr Bailey um you you mentioned in your testimony the administration's counil um
▶ 1:02:36uh I think almost a half of the signed grants uh um is is there anything you can tell us that would suggest that we this this can be recovered even if they I mean even if that's reversed today or next week have we lost a ground that uh may not be recoverable or may be years to recover yes sir and thank you so much for the question many of the local fair housing organizations
▶ 1:03:07and communities throughout the nation some of them rely on their HUD funding through the fair housing initiatives program which is a program that was started under the Reagan Administration to provide fair housing support in their communities and because some of these agencies rely 100% on the funding some of those agencies will cease to operate some of them are already taking actions to lay off staff and wound down some organizations that have not even received cancellation letters are also taking action now to wound down because
▶ 1:03:37they are afraid that they will get an Abrupt notification this came in the cover of dark without any notice so no one could prepare and in fact it's it's an attack on a program that is one of Hud's most efficient programs a program that has helped H efficiently address red line and efficiently create solutions for appraisal bias efficiently help survivors of domestic violence find safe and fair housing so this will have harmful implications for people throughout the United States thank you thank you very much uh I have lots of questions
▶ 1:04:08uh but my time has Running Out Mr chairman I'll you back thank you Mr cever the gentleman from Arkansas Mr Hill the chair of the full committee is now recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chairman thank you for our good panel for this important discussion about housing affordability certainly a a major topic for for the suppliers of Housing and the buyers of housing across our our our country Mr Hughes I spent a good part of my life lending money to uh homebuilders before I was in
▶ 1:04:38Congress and I've I've had good days and bad days in that business uh and I've finished some some houses as a banker that I didn't think I should have but you talked a lot about the credit environment and of course we talked about price here extensively on and we think about that from a from a buyer's point of view you know the mortgage market and the mortgage price that shot up so highly during the days of the Joe Biden inflation but I'm curious about talking about the supply
▶ 1:05:08side and you you mentioned specifically in your testimony about ADC lending acquisition Development and Construction lending something I as I say I spent a lot of years in in the middle of what's happened what's the biggest difference when you look back over your career are the lines of credit available to the members of the National Association of home builders there are fewer specs more Customs only is the are the terms and conditions tougher talk to me about the price and structure and terms
▶ 1:05:38for a home builder right now in the in the banking Market um well yes to all of those and we've all had those good days and bad days uh particularly uh what has uh been difficult for me is the fact I'm a very small operator uh and it's made it difficult to get lending locally at Community Banks Savings and Loans uh I've had some success with Federal Credit Unions um simply when I was turned down by the other
▶ 1:06:09Banks um in my area so having more options more so more choice for us important like in your own Community if you had more competition more uh Bank choices that would be a benefit to you is that what you're saying yeah absolutely because our competition housing are the National builders that have have moved in to our County we all know we're publicly traded yeah um they don't have to go into the banks
▶ 1:06:39and no and beg well when I started my banking company in the late 90s there were 295 banks in Arkansas now there are 70 banks in Arkansas so I know a lot of our communities are hurt by that and that's why this committee's made a commitment that we want to make a community banking Community financial institutions great again in this Congress by tailoring the regulatory burden so that these institutions are growing that we actually have startup institutions that the institutions that we have can access Capital so that you can
▶ 1:07:09access Capital um has the structure of those loans also changed to where you know a builder based on their financial statement and their track record the like the number of loans individual homes you can start under a line of credit is has that shrunk over the years as well uh I'm not as familiar with that because I haven't done a lot of SPEC Building most's been custom building I've done some multif family but one thing that has um
▶ 1:07:40bitten me and trying to do um a rental project yep that all of the banks in our city where in this was after the recession when Federal Regulators were clamping down on banks for having over their allowed percentage of rental property and I I was I was turned down all all of these Banks because it was rental and they were over there wasn't didn't have anything to do with
▶ 1:08:10that's right I mean this is this is what I think is so important for this committee to understand that the impact of Dodd Frank on community banking changed dramatically the risk that Banks can take in very traditional local commercial businesses like building a and that if it's a rental property it's got supposedly higher risk than something that's owner occupied in a custom home that you're going to build Mr chairman I'd like to enter in the record of the Council of economic advisers report from January of
▶ 1:08:402024 that talks about the burdens to housing affordability and one of those is the pernicious impact of Bank regulation since Dodd Frank without objection Mr chairman I yield back General yields back the general woman from California uh ranking member Waters is now recognized for 5 minutes uh thank you very much um let's see Mr Hughes president Trump has imposed a new 25%
▶ 1:09:10tax on Goods purchased by Americans and American businesses from Canada and Mexico which is being characterized as quote the world's dumbest trade War unquote your organization sent a letter to Trump noting that Canada and Mexico Supply the United States with 25% of building materials and that his proposed tariffs would increase the cost of housing will your members be able to build more housing than they were yesterday with the added costs that come
▶ 1:09:41with paying these new import taxes no absolutely not and we're very concerned about tariffs because we import goods from Canada and and Mexico and all over the the globe for that matter I I deal particularly in Canada with one product and I've I've had to spend a lot of money ahead of time to keep from paying that tariff so we are very very concerned well let me just say that we're sitting here um talking about regulations are the cause of a lack
▶ 1:10:11of housing in this country that's absolutely ridiculous as a matter of fact we have a housing crisis and we're here acting businesses usual we have 700,000 people sleeping on the street every night who are homeless we have people with Section 8 vouchers waiting for years to try to get a place we have middle class people who can't afford to pay 20% down on housing and people more paying more than 30% for housing and yet we have an Administration that's sitting here
▶ 1:10:41talking about make building housing less safe let's do something about regulations that get in the way of big Bankers making more money etc etc this is all ridiculous this doesn't make good we have people both in rural communities and urban communities suffering and so it is not regulation you know who wants to get rid of regulations the biggest banks and financial institutions in this country they want
▶ 1:11:11to get us back to where we were before we had that meltdown in predatory lending well we're going to fight against predatory lending we're going to fight to build more affordable housing we're going to fight against this Administration who claims to care about housing but here doing the business of the billionaires it's not going to work and I am absolutely sick and tired of it how much time do I have left I have a lot more time I'm going to continue to talk let me just tell you
▶ 1:11:41I want us to understand there is a crisis in this country unfortunately Trump who has been bought and paid for by Elon mosque has given him the ability to go into to our areas all of our departments the treasury the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau the Department of Education and do you know they just closed Social Security uh offices in my district and many of the other districts now I add all of this to the
▶ 1:12:11housing crisis and I want to tell you that this country is not going to do any better by getting rid of regulations and talking about environmental requirements and and been opposed to things that have kept our homes and our communities safe as we build housing well I want everybody to as we say here I don't kind of like the word man up it's time to face the crisis for
▶ 1:12:42what it regulations that will be obliterated have nothing to do with us doing what we continue to try and do in hug I went over to hug just yesterday with a letter uh to the new secretary to ask him what are they going to do why are they allowing mus to get ready over 50% of the employees there they won't be able to respond to the developers who want to build housing we need to understand
▶ 1:13:12not only is there a housing crisis but the cost of supply and materials have continued to rise since Co I want everybody to understand the government has a role to play if we care about about America if we care about safe homes if we care about children who sleeping in cars who have to get up in the morning and try to go to school we'll stop this madness talking about the regulations let's talk about what America can do rather than the president going over having
▶ 1:13:42a good time with Putin and Kim Jang and with other countries that have nothing to do but want to take over our country I have 19 more seconds I'll keep going and I'll keep going to say for those of you who are in housing who are responsible for building and getting money you should be asking for more resources in order to get that done with that said I don't really have enough to say right now but I'll keep saying it and I want you to listen don't
▶ 1:14:12leave away from here business as usual a fight is on time is expired the gentle has it expired I guess it has expired the gentleman from Tennessee Mr Rose is recognized for five minutes thank you chairman flood and and thank you ranking member Cleaver for holding this hearing and thank you to our Witnesses for your time and being here today with us in Tennessee we are blessed to be leaders in the manufactured housing space I truly believe that manufactured housing serves as the key to unlocking
▶ 1:14:42more housing units for Working Families all across this nation it is for that reason that I plan to reintroduce legislation in this Congress that would remove the current permanent steel chassis requirement for manufacture ured housing Dr Hamilton what benefits would manufactured housing without a permanent chassis provide in terms of producing more manufactured homes thank you Congressman that's a great question and there are a couple of of benefits
▶ 1:15:13first are the most obvious direct effect of the permanent chassis requirement which adds several thousand dollars to the cost of each manufactured home which when we're talking about one of of the most cost-effective ways of building housing that's a substantial percentage of each unit and when without that permanent steel chassis requirement those chassis could be repurposed from home to home taking off that direct cost of each new unit and uh equally as important
▶ 1:15:43I think removing that steel chassis requirement could open up opportunities to use this housing more flexibly we can find instances of manufactured homes that are attached to a permanent foundation with a basement and you can see the chassis poking down into the basement it's ridiculous um so getting rid of that requirement would allow people to use these homes in the way that works for them and Dr Hamilton from a local zoning perspective are there any specific
▶ 1:16:13rules that make manufactured housing infeasible to build yes there are a few and it depends on whether we're talking about manufactured housing in Parks or on owner occupied Lots in the second on owner occupied Lots the biggest factor is minimum lot size requirements when a house is required to sit on a very expensive piece of land it doesn't make any sense to use a lowcost type of housing that isn't going to
▶ 1:16:44end up in an overall affordable product when we're talking about manufactured housing in Parks we're seeing a nationwide trend of existing parks being redeveloped when land costs change and the highest and best use of the land in that Park changes but localities are choosing not to Zone additional land for parks that reduces the opportunities that are available for using manufactured housing and it puts residents of parks
▶ 1:17:14often in very difficult positions when they can't find a place to site the home that they may own sure thank you Miss vasek U what steps have have you taken in Columbus Nebraska to incentivize the development of manufactured housing uh that you would recommend for other communities to to follow suit sure manufactured housing and modular homes as well are allowed in all zones um specifically on our zoning
▶ 1:17:44regulations we have eliminated minimum lot regulations we have eliminated um lot widths Site Area per housing unit we have eliminated um all all rules that um limit the ability to do accessory dwelling units um so those are a few of the very specific local regulations that are going to get in the of
▶ 1:18:15um modular and mobile homes and as a result of those changes have you seen a more successful modular or manufactured housing development it is definitely inre ining in in Columbus very good thank you um as a member of both the financial services committee and the house agriculture committee I have observed the vast difference in execution of how the Department of Housing and Urban Development approaches housing versus the Department of Agriculture Mr Compton what are the negative results of these differing
▶ 1:18:45approaches to regulating housing uh thank you Congressman uh first uh for the builders and developers of housing it simply is diff different regimes that they have to be familiar with the way that USDA will go about uh its financing process is entirely unlike uh what HUD uh would do in a similar context and and this may even be uh where uh you have adjoining sites one financed by
▶ 1:19:15USDA and one financed by Hud uh they will be completely different uh processes uh Huds tends to be more standardized whereas USD a you can either have good experiences or bad experiences but but they're quite random the gentlemen's time is expired thank you I see my time is expired and you'll back Mr chairman uh the gentoman from Michigan Miss Talib is now recognized for five minutes thank you so much Mr chair for having this important hearing um you know Miss Bailey when you think
▶ 1:19:4550% of Hud employees being illegally fired many of them illegally fired I I don't think people understand the impact it will have on all the housing uh crisis that we have I think the private sector doesn't realize what is going to come down the pipes I think getting rid of again this sort of oversight um is also very detrimental but I looked at the numbers I said what does 50% really mean I saw it goes from 1,529 federal workers
▶ 1:20:16in HUD down to 765 people even the Office of Public uh in Indian housing facilitates get this 3.5 m million rental assistance Mr chair that means 3.5 million residents who count on those federal workers for that rental assistance program um will be wiped out uh and it's going to disrupt services to them and disrupt again you know again this uh um uh effort to try to
▶ 1:20:46combat the housing crisis but when I even look deeper into it I look at the H Hud's office of uh fair housing and equal and I was like okay so they're going to cut them from that's 572 workers there down to 134 workers that's a 77% reduction I want you to tell Mr Miss Bailey my colleagues and the American people is housing discrimination still happening thank you for the
▶ 1:21:16question every year there are over 4 million instances of housing discrimination and most instances of housing discrimination are not reported for fear of retaliation and every year we have been doing a fair housing Trends report and we see complaints of housing discrimination go up and we are at record highs with complaints based on discrimination for disability being the leading and majority of the
▶ 1:21:46complaints Bor and I want to highlight one of the victims that the National Fair Housing Alliance recently assisted she was an American and she was facing challenges with creating repairs to her home because as we all know insurance calls arising and she was unable to pay her insurance and she was about to lose her home and be foreclosed upon and what we were able to do as a fit grantee was to assist her in getting the proper repairs done and make sure there was no
▶ 1:22:16fraud in AB Bruce like we saw during the Great Recession where so many older Americans lost their homes because they were doing things like getting repairs on their home and didn't realize they were signing away a lifetime of equity and we were able to help her get those repairs and maintain her insurance so that we did not have an older American lose her home that's the travesty of the Great Depression I'm sorry excuse me the great uh recession of 2008 we saw so many homeowners in cities like Atlanta who were
▶ 1:22:46Houser but cash poor be the targets of dangerous and risky abusive predatory lenders who would go to their churches who would go to their community centers is trusted resources and meet with them and convince them to take on projects to improve their property so that they can retire with the dignity that they deserve they were Hoodwinked and all of their home equity was taken away and that's why we have the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau today an organization an agency with a sole mission of I always tell people it's the 911
▶ 1:23:17for fraud that's where my residents call we I call cfpb I don't care if it's mortgage fraud or targeting them and they did it over and over again I can't believe they just got rid of this agency that pushes back against corporate greed and the scams that Target our I mean I saw them do it to Veterans student loan borrowers and everyone but I want to get to a really important uh question you know one of the troubling reports that came out that Elon Musk and Doge which is there's so lack of transparency I don't know why don't we don't have him at this Committee
▶ 1:23:47hearing I I have so many questions to ask him on behalf of my residents but they gained access to thousands of people sensitive personal information and Miss Bailey you know this and I want my colleagues to know this I mean you know HUD enforces civil rights laws and pushes back against abuse but it also enforces Fair Housing Act and parts of the violence against women's act and often the records in HUD is not Anonymous like it's it's just out there for anybody to have access to that work for the federal government or or is
▶ 1:24:17is is basically screen to have access to it and I'm just you know I'm thinking of all those records of domestic violence cases and cases on housing discrimination can you talk about the safety and privacy issues for so many of our families that did turn to HUD for help they won't have protection so women who are trying to escape abusers and including families with children who might be facing abuse they won't have protection gentle woman's time has expired with that the gentleman from Wisconsin Mr
▶ 1:24:47Fitzgerald is recognized for five minutes thank you chairman uh thank you all for being here today um so in 2023 um I have a county it's part of my fifth congressional district in Wisconsin Washington County they established the county exec uh to his credit uh established a program to increase the supply of homes that are priced you know in general kind of across the board you'd say those are were middle income
▶ 1:25:18and the goal of the program is to provide quality homes within 30% of the median household income uh under under the program the county provides funding based on maximum $20,000 per owner occupied dwelling unit and it's capped at 2.4 million for any site so it's it's that they're thinking out of the box and they're trying to come up with a way of of building something maybe smaller square footage uh in smaller lot size but still
▶ 1:25:48fits within the constraints of of what would be considered local and State regulations and the this investment uh is basically a grant to local governments and acts as a 0% loan for infrastructure construction and other eligible expenses uh and is then returned to the county in the revolving fund it's actually it they've had great success already so uh Mr Hughes I'm just wondering uh I know I'm kind of hitting you with something maybe um
▶ 1:26:18you're unaware of but are there other things like this that maybe you're seeing where people are thinking out of the box right now in developing uh some new footprints that is starting to uh to allow us to build some affordable housing in some of these counties uh probably the most popular of those that I'm aware of is uh the increased use of accessory dwelling units which much smaller uh sometimes it's
▶ 1:26:49renovating a attic over a garage for a mother-in-law or but yes this is becoming very common very common and more and more jurisdictions are allowing it but um unfortunately there I would guess that there are more jurisdictions that don't want anything to do with it my my frustration I think is that when you look at certain parts of my state in my district and outside of my district there's a ton of construction going on but they're building rental units
▶ 1:27:19right or they're building these multiple duplex units which is you know obviously uh kind of money-making Ventures for a lot of those that are involved in the Building Trades it's the single family homes that aren't being built what we're trying to figure out I guess is are these newer units being built the rental units and the duplex is being built in lie of single family housing is that something that you're seeing as well kind of on on a national
▶ 1:27:50scale I'm not sure on a national scale I can speak to my local yeah we we have a pretty balanced mix I think of course we're um we're seeing a lot of growth I'm from Lexington North Carolina and for 100 years our economy was Furniture textiles and tobacco and they all went away in about a 10-year period And so we've worked very hard to recruit manufacturing and I like to say that we're we're a victim of our own success and we
▶ 1:28:21have we've enticed some very large Manufacturing we're building a a Simmons plant to to build locomotives and we simply don't have enough houses to go around so we've got a good mix in our area of single family and apartments as far as nationally I apologize I wouldn't know what the the the numbers were there yeah and I think um the the other issue that's kind of started to emerge is that in the late '90s
▶ 1:28:51there were a lot of subdivisions that were built and they were large square footage homes mcmansions right sure and and there really hasn't been a shift away from that and yet the prices associated with a lot of those subdivision are just they're too they're too high they're it's not something that that a it's not a starter home right it's not a starter so uh as Builders kind of work through that process and come up with a different type of dwelling that maybe fits that
▶ 1:29:21uh it might help to relieve some of the pressure that's on right now right I I think one Trend you'd be glad to say I think the average size of a custom home today is is smaller uh so maybe people are using a little more common sense yeah I mean in the 50s a two- bedroom one bath home was the standard sure and suddenly that became three bedrooms two baths and it continued to grow so um maybe that's an answer so I I'm out of time thank you very much I you back
▶ 1:29:52the gentle one from Texas Miss Garcia is now recognized for 5 minutes thank you Mr chairman and thank you to all the witnesses today and uh Welcome to our capital and to a big day for for many um around the complex I just wanted to just of talk a little bit about the Trump tariffs I know that um ranking member has already asked some questions of of you Mr um is
▶ 1:30:22it is it Murray no you're Harris Mr Harris from the right and and I I think you're both of your of the um press releases that I saw that came from your organization clearly stated your disappointment and dis displeasure with the Trump terrorists that are coming to both Canada and Mexico and the impact that it would have on some of the lumber that you purchase but also of course
▶ 1:30:52combined with that uh we know that that there are some actions that he is is uh planning on doing in terms of mass deportations which could gut your Workforce by about 30% both of those together it's almost like a double whammy for your for your industry can can you all survive uh yes I think we can survive but we are definitely going to it's going to be challenging may be the best way to put it we're very concerned about tariffs
▶ 1:31:22as I mentioned earlier it's causing me to to spend more money already uh and they it just became official but we have so many Products that come from our Northern friends and and our Southern friends but Portland cement for Ready Mix Concrete I'm I'm in conrete business drywall gypsum for drywall yes no question well but what what about the impact of 30% of your Workforce maybe not being here anymore I I
▶ 1:31:52haven't felt that uh in in our area well we have um a lot of but what has your industry felt are you getting reports from around the country because obviously you represent a National Organization sure sure we are getting and it it varies depending on on areas so we're uh we're working very hard to increase uh the workforce um our association from from coast to coast is doing
▶ 1:32:23a lot of things to train and retrain the next uh generation I've been coordinating carpentry contests for over 25 years to to try to train high school kids uh which is working very well but it's a slow slow fix no question immigration 30% is huge in terms of hit to your your Workforce and then what is it 25% in Trump tariffs I mean like I said it's a dble Whi and I wish
▶ 1:32:53you all the best thank you um I know that that um many of us are very concerned for a variety of reasons but thank you for the the press releases that that you have sent out and made clear about what position you all have recently a constituent reached out to my office to help with casework she is a mother of three and a veteran she is a she she also filed to participate in the HUD Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing program the program provides
▶ 1:33:23homeless veterans with Huds housing Choice voucher rental assistance along with case management and Clinical Services provided by the Department of Veterans Affairs she originally filed to participate in the program because she and her children were faced with the risk of homelessness however due to the shortage of affordable housing in Houston and that uh and the high demand in the program itself waight list for HUD uh Vash program have been closed they just have been
▶ 1:33:53closed that left my constituent a 100% disabled veteran who serve this nation unable to participate Miss Bailey your work with the National Fair Housing Alliance directly works with families like my constituent what can we do as a Congress and as a nation to better prioritize affordable housing so that our vulnerable communities and our nation's Heroes can avoid homelessness thank you for the question one of the things that you can do is make sure the administration is not
▶ 1:34:23trying to override the rules of Congress dollars have already been appropriated and those contracts are being taken away the president does not have the authority to do that so to hold the administration accountable for making sure dollars that Congress already appropriated are spit in the way that Congress has designed them to do such the second thing is making sure things like our affirmatively further and fair housing provision of the fair housing act which simply requires that every Community is vibrant with all of the amenities that everyone needs to thrive is
▶ 1:34:53fully enforced it is actually the key to some of the local and state-based exclusionary zoning laws thank you a y back Mr chairman thank you the uh gentleman from South Carolina Mr timens is now recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chairman uh Mr Compton and Dr Hamilton um during your testimony you touched on some things that I want to expand on a little bit so it seems to me that one of the biggest challenges in the affordable housing space is the comp comp Lex
▶ 1:35:24I'm going to say Patchwork framework of approaches taken by the federal government the state and the city and while they're all intended well intended for the same purpose of facilitating affordable housing they're often contradictory and in many ways vague and I guess the last part in with elections that have consequences some of the state and local rules can change in the middle of a development and the permitting process can be overly honorous and
▶ 1:35:54complex so Dr Hamilton is there a way that the federal government could preempt all of these rules to create um an nfip National flood insurance plan style system through which state and local governments can then adopt portions of it to try to streamline that does that question make sense thank you Congressman um part of that is outside of my area of expertise as far as the legal role that Congress
▶ 1:36:24could play in in a more aggressive role in determining zoning and and permitting processes but I think there are absolutely lessons that need to be shared from States and local governments and implemented um in terms of of what's working one thing we often see is that the repeal of one specific zoning rule intended to make a new type of project feasible to build will just reveal the challenges in permitting or building codes or subdivision regulations
▶ 1:36:55that are still standing in the way of the type of housing that the reformers were hoping to see Mr Compton what are your thoughts on that that concept yes Congressman in my opening remarks I spoke of a systemic or systematic approach to this and I think that one of the problems that we have really dates back to the 1986 Tax Act we took out passive loss we put in passive loss limitations in the 86 Tax Act which is essentially took individuals
▶ 1:37:25and small businesses out of the ability to invest economically in real estate and I think that that had the unintended consequence of disconnecting local investors from the local real estate market and what we've seen over the last 40 years since that was done is an explosion of local regulation and in part it's because many of the builders uh are the National Builders which don't have input into state and local election and thus there's really no political
▶ 1:37:56check on the growth of these regulations because many many homeowners would just asum nobody else ever build near them and I think that reexamining the uh as part of the tax cutting jobs act uh reconsideration looking at taking passive loss limitations off of residential investment uh could help balance thank you for that it seems that all levels government are searching for a solution to the problem
▶ 1:38:26of of affordability in my district it's particularly challenging as we have gentrification due to increased uh population growth and we have no public transportation to speak of so you know it it's even more of a challenge there I've encouraged our state and local government to view uh this Challenge from a perspective of how do you incentivize as opposed to require because my experience when local governments try to require a percentage
▶ 1:38:56of affordable housing it it really creates a a a bad environment because if you're telling a developer they have to do 25 30% affordable that developer is still going to get uh the rents necessary to make the project work and you're going to have the the 70% of the people subsidizing 30% and neighbors subsidizing neighbors I actually think is just immoral and if we're going to do this we should consider it from the perspective of General fund tax dollars and if you want to then use those general fund tax dollars because
▶ 1:39:27you've convinced the people that you represent that that's an appropriate use of tax dollars which I think many cities and states can have that conversation then you incentivize developers using general fund tax dollars it it just makes a lot more sense and it's harder to do it's a lot harder to do because you actually have to defend um your policy decision to the people that elect you but it is drastically Superior to telling devel Vel opers that they must um Force One neighbor to subsidize another and
▶ 1:39:58um yeah I appreciate this hearing I look forward to work with my colleagues across the aisle to try to to solve this problem for all of our cities and counties thanks gentleman yields back the gentleman from California Mr Lardo is now recognized for five minutes um thank you Mr chair thank you for allowing me to wave in and uh thank you uh also for taking the time last week I appreciated the opportunity or two weeks ago I think to speak um with uh with Democrats about our ideas and housing and I
▶ 1:40:28I really want to thank ranking member CER for the invitation to that conversation uh Mr Hughes I I appreciate your emphasis on the five L's thanks for keeping it simple for us uh that's it's helpful I want to talk about three of those else for just a moment first on the lending I I really appreciate np's advocacy for full funding for all HUD and USDA rental assistance contracts uh for robust funding for the home program uh for the USDA uh home ownership direct
▶ 1:40:58loan programs and multif Family Programs I think those are all important I certainly hope my colleagues on both sides of the aisle will heed your advocacy in particular I was interested about the expansion of lcom housing tax credit I know that there was Penning legislation in the last session um and specifically on on boosting the 9% uh which I imagine could help a lot of small jurisdictions smaller towns that don't have a lot of access to Capital that still have a gap in the capital stack uh by boosting it say from 9 to
▶ 1:41:2812% could enable projects to actually get a shovel out of the ground faster have you seen that happen based on the experiment that we just went through through the uh post-pandemic era when we saw a boost in that tax credit well personally I haven't had any dealings with lch at all but I've got some friends that have and uh they're they love it be honest with it's one of the best tools they have so I'm sorry I can't speak directly to it but I know they would like to see it
▶ 1:41:58increased and know we don't stand a chance of Furnishing housing for low-income families without some kind of uh government subsidies and that's one of the best yeah I I agree and I I think U certainly my experience as a mayor of a large city where in an very expensive place we had a capital stack sometimes seven or eight different sources having that boost could be a real Catalyst to getting uh more units built
▶ 1:42:29um going to the next L labor I think you testified was at 300,000 open positions correct construction across the country average right and is it fair to say that's been something of a chronic challenge for us since the Great Recession for about a decade and a half is that right sure exactly because the recession retired a lot of people before they wanted to or before they they would have naturally and it left a huge gap and we can agree that uh having
▶ 1:42:59more immigration would probably help uh for those skilled labor positions is that fair uh absolutely and uh we I grew up in the tobacco belt where we used uh immigrant help and then but the outfall of that a lot of times was the folks that came in for seasonal work we don't have tobacco anymore but we got Christmas trees so we still have a a big influx and a lot of these workers
▶ 1:43:29get a job and stick around and learn to lay block and that's I mentioned we're working very hard to train the Next Generation but it's slow yeah there's got to be some ways that we can take advantage of uh the Immigrant force that we have right now and the many people who do want to work oh absolutely no question I appreciate that work and I also appreciate uh your prior testimony that uh we were not helped any with regard to housing construction costs by the president's increase
▶ 1:43:59in tariffs uh we know it affects Canadian Lumber and many other building materials and I appreciate your testimony in that regard um Dr Hamilton I I I appreciated your testimony as well um and I I understand particularly the points around zoning and how that can be a real constraint we do have uh we know a challenge in many local jurisdictions where folks some may call them nimes uh neighbors who yell because they love but uh they love their community of course but they don't like
▶ 1:44:29something getting built that's tall next to their next to their neighborhood we have existing stock of buildings with 20% vacancy right now nearly 20% nationally that is our office uh stock and there's an opportunity certainly to rehabilitate those buildings wouldn't it make sense from a zoning perspective where perhaps we could have a federal program that could stimulate the conversion of those buildings uh with perhaps a byright resoning requirement thank you Congressman yes there are certainly instances where Office Buildings
▶ 1:45:00can be successfully converted to residential um to great effect sometimes with historic buildings it creates beautiful opportunities for very cool multif family projects in what are no longer viable Office Buildings unfortunately there are many more instances where uh the floor plate doesn't work gentle woman's understood it only works with smaller floor plates but still a significant percentage gentleman's time has expired I recognize Miss Garcia for unanimous consent request Mr chairman I ask for unanimous
▶ 1:45:30consent to introducing the record to two press releases from the National Association of home builders uh one dated February 1st 25% ter hike on Canadian and Mexican Goods harming housing affordability the second one Trump imposes additional 25% tariff on Canadian softwood Lumber uh the third article is from the Houston chronic and it is um Texas once more affordable housing Insurance costs are getting in the way thank you Mr chairman I yield back without
▶ 1:46:00objection the gentleman from New York Mr Garbarino is now recognized for five minutes thank you chairman thank you all the witnesses for being here today on an average government regulations account for nearly 25% of the the cost to build a typical new single family home totaling almost $94,000 Mr Hughes nahb research has found that approximately 14 million American households are priced out of the market for a new home by government regulations can you give us examples of regulations either
▶ 1:46:30during the development or construction phase that have led to these increased costs for housing oh I can give you many U my my favorite only got five minutes I know uh and my target uh is on energy codes uh we we debate a lot about codes and and truthfully 85% of those we don't have an argument with as long as it's health and safety uh where we get a little sideways is when we get involved the government
▶ 1:47:01the federal government gets involved with energy codes increased energy codes and that's where it has really escalated uh out of control so we would uh we would love to see that uh and and one of those uh requirements is on the HUD uh USDA and VA loans having to uh um conform to those heavier codes absolutely and it's not just the federal government but you know we've seen uh
▶ 1:47:31states to it this past Friday New York moved one step closer to uh installing a gas stove band for new buildings um first in this first in the nation ban will increase energy cost for New Yorkers and stress the electrical grid and eliminate consumer Choice all while having a Min minimal environmental impact in pricing out working-class families Mr Hughes you just mentioned these standards that are coming out and being forced on HUD and USDA and New York energy
▶ 1:48:04standards we see these things coming out of here they don't have the benefit of what the intention is but they're having a lot of negative impact you talked about I talked about cost what about timing of projects viability of projects are these stopping even things from getting started uh sure uh if not stopping them tremendously slowing them down I appreciate that very much the main factor I'm going to switch uh switch
▶ 1:48:34things here the main factor contributing to housing and affordability is the ongoing shortage of homes required to meet increasing demand in order the right to strip we must explore innovative solutions to keep Pace with household needs one such solution to address not only affordability issues but also the supply challenges has been uh manufactured housing Dr Hamilton could you please describe how manufactured housing could possibly address the high cost of building new construction in high density urban areas such as Long Island thank
▶ 1:49:04you Congressman yes manufactured housing uh presents cost efficiencies over siteb built housing in a variety of ways uh one of which is that it can be built offsite where labor costs can be much lower than they are on uh Long Island what's necessary though in high cost places is typically allowing a uh dense manufactured housing development that local zoning roles are generally standing in the way of uh one factor could be outright manufactured housing
▶ 1:49:34bans another could be minimum lot size requirements which make the cost of each uh piece of land that a house can sit on very expensive and make manufactured housing and unviable solution uh although some of Hud's recent reforms to allow for uh more more than one manufactured housing unit to be combined are promising thank you very much uh for that answer and I just I want to make a a statement just to finish we have heard a lot of complaints about
▶ 1:50:04the cost of of homes going up uh the cost of construction the cost of buying and very little has been done to solve it except for the past administration and a lot of state governments controlled um by you know New York for instance controlled by Dem rat Democrat Governor for the last 20 some odd years they've gone after mortgage industry they've gone after the title insurance industry they've gone after the Realtors they've gone after the home
▶ 1:50:34builders all to try to you know all these PE all these groups that help people actually achieve home ownership they've gone after them as if they're the problem they are not the problem overregulation by government is the problem they need to get out of the way and let these people who have done a great job for Decades of letting people buy homes get them back into the business uh where they've been and been so successful at it so uh we've got to get out of the overregulation that government has done so
▶ 1:51:05with that Mr chairman I yield back gentleman yields back the gentleman from New York Mr torus is recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chair uh even though housing is one of the central concerns of every American household funding for HUD represents a mere 1% of the overall federal budget the FY 2024 federal budget was in the range of 7 trillion of which only 70 billion went to HUD Miss Bailey do you think housing is getting anything
▶ 1:51:35approaching its fair share of federal funding no and thank you for the question sir and the national low-income housing Coalition reports that America has a housing deficit of 7.3 million units for the lowest income Americans the United States bill somewhere between a million and 2 million units a year but only a small subset of those units are affordable to the lowest income Americans now I'm all for land use reform for reasonable deregulation
▶ 1:52:06but the fact is that it's all but impossible to build deeply affordable housing for the lowest income Americans without some measure of public subsidy is that correct correct and so if we continue to catastrophically underbuild housing in America and continue to catastrophically in America then we as a country have no hope for closing the housing deficit of 7.3 million units in fact that deficit will only widen over time now the greatest sources of deeply
▶ 1:52:36affordable housing are section 8 and section 9 public housing there are about 5 million Americans living in Section 8 public housing and about 2.5 million living in section 9 housing I can tell you as a product of public housing most Americans who live in section in in public housing would be homeless without it because market rate rent is simply too high and so my question to you Miss Bailey is what is more expensive for the federal government homelessness or those Housing Programs homelessness
▶ 1:53:06sir thank you and so when the federal government defunds or underinvested programs like Section 8 and public housing it is not creating a cost savings it is simply substituting the higher cost of homelessness for the lower cost of affordable housing do you agree with that assessment yes sir so affordable housing is not a cost but a cost savings relative to the far greater cost of homelessness I would add fair and affordable sir and the federal government must not only create
▶ 1:53:36new housing Supply we must preserve the existing housing Supply and nowhere is the need for preservation more pressing than in public housing I grew up in New York City public housing Nitra which has been so chronically underfunded for so long by the the federal government that it has a capital need of $80 billion in counting that's 80 billion with a be and housing authorities like Nicha typically receive only a percentage only pration of the
▶ 1:54:07formula Federal funding for which it is statutorily eligible in fact there have been years when nich has only received 82% of its formula Federal funding do you think there's a private landlord in America that could operate with only 82% of the rues that it needs no sir so why should we expect that of public housing we absolutely should not and in fact we need more investment and we need to be very intentional the housing crisis response act has $150 billion do it's a sensible package that we
▶ 1:54:37all need we need to see increased support for housing Choice vouchers increased support for public housing authorities and we need to act quickly housing is an important pillar of our economy if we allow housing to fail the economy fails and federal public housing is a federal program and a federal obligation yes so if there are bricks falling off of public housing buildings does the federal obligation does the federal government have an obligation to replace them yes and if there are leaking roofs that are causing water to penetrate and damage the building
▶ 1:55:07systems does the federal government have an obligation to replace those roofs yes because the people who live in those housing places they deserve the Dignity of a home that's safe safeties and affordable housing which every member of Congress enjoys so why not wish for every American the safe decent affordable housing that we as members of Congress take for granted uh I have a question for each of the panelists uh there are multiple causes to the affordability crisis right Insurance construction costs land use
▶ 1:55:38which cause would you identify as the most consequential and I'll start with Mr Compton uh hearkening back uh Congressman to to what I said about what we did in the tax code 40 years ago we we intentionally knew that that changes in the tax code and the 1986 tax reform act we going to cause underinvestment in housing and that's exactly what we've gotten thank you Congressman I'd point to land use regulations and permit
▶ 1:56:09processes excessive codes I would say since we have reformed our local uh regulations and we have invested significantly and housing at our level it is some of the federal and state requirements gent time is I have a shortage of Housing and a shortage of time so thank you thank you the gentleman from New York Mr Lawler is now recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chairman I don't think there's any question housing is one of the most important
▶ 1:56:39issues facing our country we are approaching 7 million units uh Nationwide uh and it impacts every Community across the country uh in every type type of housing stock uh one of the most common refrains that I hear when discussing housing with residents across my district is there concern about the affordability of housing it Remains the most persistent challenge with mortgage rates near their highest since the turn of the Millennium a limited
▶ 1:57:09housing Supply in many communities and ongoing supply chain and construction issues it is perhaps the most difficult time to purchase a home in our Region's history this affordability crisis is further Complicated by the fact that many homeowners remain unable or unwilling to sell their homes for fear of losing their fixed low rate mortgages obtained prior to 2022 the median cost to purchase a home is more than 5.6 times greater than the median household income Nationwide
▶ 1:57:40and looking at the growing crisis in my district in Rockland and Westchester counties which pay among the highest property taxes in America according to the National Association of Realtors the monthly average cost of a mortgage AG was $1,000 more in 2023 than it was in 2022 and in putam and Duchess counties it was at least $800 more per month that's anywhere ranging from $1,000 to $12,000 more
▶ 1:58:10uh per uh year on an annual basis for many families this is totally unsustainable that's why I will be reintroducing and I'm glad to see uh notice with today's hearing my housing for America's Middle Class Act this bill will improve our understanding of the uh efficacy of federal housing affordability programs and of any gaps that exclude middle inome households Mr Hughes given the estimated cost of construction continuing to climb
▶ 1:58:40can you highlight why most Builders opt to produce more expensive housing to remain viable uh I think most Builders just address their Market what you know what Market they're going to be able to sell the homes I I deal primarily uh in Western North Carolina where there's no starter housing everything's large Custom Homes it's a great Market um you can only build one or two a year but
▶ 1:59:10um but it's a good Market uh everybody seems to have their expertise I guess SPEC Building is not mine it's I'm I'm more of a custom builder Mr Compton were Mr Hughes what in your view needs to change either at the regulatory or Market level to ensure the constru that the construction industry can produce Homes at a price point for Middle inome uh consumers uh Congressman thank you uh
▶ 1:59:40I think that what is is vastly underestimated in terms of the regulatory burden is is not just the the cost or or even the the time that it imposes but it really is the m multi applicative effect that the time has on risk and given that profit margins whether it's an expensive house or a less expensive house or or similar uh is that the margin for error on less expensive houses if you have an unexpected three-month
▶ 2:00:10delay due to some regulatory issue um can take that from being profitable to a loss and so there is simply much greater risk both perceived and real uh for uh lower cost houses because of less of a margin of error and so I think making the regulatory process not only less but more predictable uh would would be helpful in that respect it's estimated
▶ 2:00:41that the const construction industry needs over 400,000 workers uh next year to meet growing demand uh in your how can these goals be met direct us to Mr Hughes uh as I mentioned before immigration we we simply have to have a short fix we're doing all we can for the slow long fix but there's got to be a way to figure this out we've been doing it for decades and we we've got
▶ 2:01:11to get a handle on that I don't think there's any question as we deal with uh the economic challenges facing the country three of the biggest issues that I see uh is immigration energy and housing and if we actually address all three in a serious and substantive way and address the workforce shortages address the uh energy Supply uh and address the housing Supply our economy will be in a much stronger
▶ 2:01:41position and the cost of housing will come down gentleman's time has expired gentleman yields back the Goman from Oregon Miss bam is is now recognized for 5 minutes thank you Mr chair and thank you to the witnesses um my state of Oregon has faced some of the fastest growing housing costs in the country and I'm concerned that despite state-led efforts like rent stabilization and Zoning reform um many families are still priced out
▶ 2:02:12so Miss Bailey um what additional fair housing policies or federal support do you think States like ours um like mine would make housing more accessible particularly for lowincome in marginalized communities and I put a finer point on it um this morning we talked a little bit about what it takes to um to to give some hope to the younger generation I have a 23y old and a 20-year-old and when I talked with the Realtors a couple of weeks
▶ 2:02:42ago they told me 38 was the average age of a firsttime home buyer like so I'm telling kids now let's say you graduate from college or trade school you're 23 you have to work 15 years to be able to get into your own home help me make it make sense please thank you so much for the question the affirmatively further and Fair Housing Act provision of the Fair Housing Act is critical to being a tool for local jurisdictions
▶ 2:03:12to actually attack and dismantle the structural inequities that are in that have been created by exclusion AR Zona laws so fully enforcing the affirmatively further and fair housing provision which says that every dollar for Housing and Community Development programs expended they must make sure all communities are vibrant and inclusive and that the people there can Thrive and that's for HUD Treasury Department of Education Department of Transportation and every Federal agency
▶ 2:03:43the second thing in response to your question we need to pass the housing crisis response act it includes critical funding for first generation down payment assistance this is down payment assistance that would help home buyers whose prior Generations have been locked out of the system because of exclusionary policies that have made it impossible for them to build intergenerational wealth that they could pass forward to new generations and help them enter into Home Ownership the number one barrier for people who are interested in becoming home
▶ 2:04:13buyers and who are being beaten by investors is a lack of a down payment so first generation down payment assistance would help people in urban Suburban and Rural communities get access to the down payment assistance that they need to enter into and successfully become homeowners thank you I would also push to say that even middle class kids who grew up in a home they're having troubles too I I would venture to say a lot of the young kids working in the capital today could hardly afford to buy a home even with very good salaries
▶ 2:04:44did anyone else on the panel want to poke at it do you have kids that you want to get out of your house that you'd like to be able to help them buy a home uh well I will comment I've got three grandsons over 10 years old and I'm very concerned yeah that when they get of AE they're going to be able to own their own home even if I'm still around to build it for them Mr chair let the record reflect that we are all concerned about the fate of our young people in this country and their ability to buy their own home and
▶ 2:05:14and stabilize their um living arrangements for the future um Miss uh Bailey you also mentioned a little bit about institutional investors or at least I I heard a little bit about that and I'm really concerned that um they own now a significant share of rental housing and fairly or unfairly have been accused of driving up rents and so um and perhaps limiting Supply in some area we know that this this form of funding is filling a gap um but
▶ 2:05:44how can we make that um more friendly to the people in those communities who want to buy homes how can we adjust what's happening in that market um fairly again providing first generation down payment assistance and using our fair housing laws to actually enforce them against harmful practices we we've heard allegations that some companies are using a Technologies for instance because technology is playing a broader role in making housing decisions and technology is driving up
▶ 2:06:14the cost of housing in different communities so using things like the fair housing act and equal CR Opportunity Act to fully enforce those important civil rights protections thank you and Mr Hughes I think I can see that um Oregon's a national leader in Mass Timber production and so our state has promoted cross- laminated Timber as a more sustainable cost effective Building Material um any interest in in your neck of the woods for cross laminated Timber I've seen it I've researched it some but no I haven't seen
▶ 2:06:44it used um at all except maybe in a couple multif family okay uh large um multif Family projects um unfortunately I've seen a couple failures too okay thank you thank you Mr chair gentlewoman yields back the gentleman from the great state of Montana is recognized Mr Downey you recognized for five minutes uh thank you Mr chair and thank you to the witnesses for being here today um you know I think about you know my idea the American dream
▶ 2:07:15being able to buy your first home and and uh you know worry about things that get that farther and farther harder and harder to do and I look at I'm just looking at some numbers from Montana and we've seen you know the 5-year period from 2018 to 2023 we saw about a 90% increase in the medium home value in in listings and in that same period we saw uh median household income in Montana increase uh just under 30% so it's almost three times more in that period the median uh listing
▶ 2:07:45price for a home in Livingston is about $640,000 and one of the things that I thought was interesting another data point I saw is uh shows that for every1 thousand increase in the cost of building a home that you're foreclosing on about 106,000 potential buyers in that and so limiting the market to those folks and uh you know one final thing that I I think as as Germain to this conversation is about 77% of us households are already not able to afford a median priced
▶ 2:08:15home and that about 24% of that um is from regulation across all levels of government and that's according to the National Association of home builders so I'm going to start with Mr Hughes uh under the previous administration Joe Biden saw affordable and reliable energy as the problem in favor of the green New priorities in 2024 the Department of Housing and Urban Development in concert with the Department of Agriculture promulgated a final rule requiring all HUD and USDA
▶ 2:08:45finance properties to adhere to International green energy standards so how do these sorts of unrealistic energy standards put affordable housing Out Of Reach for many families it's added so much extra cost to to and and it doesn't pay for itself simply now I've I've been using uh Innovative energy efficient products for over 20 years and I'm a big believer in them as long as they pay for themselves
▶ 2:09:16uh you you simply can't pay for these increases right M Mr Compton anything you would want to add to that we we certainly have seen uh this growth whether it is in the energy space or in others I I think one thing that's also underappreciated is just the cumulative burden of of of all of these things I I I have likened it to um the the old tale gul's travels is that any one of
▶ 2:09:46these strings is not enough to to kind of hold the housing market back but by the time you've piled you know several hundred or several thousand on someone that that the cumulative burden is is just enormous and so things that if you in isolation we would say well that's really not such a bad idea that that'd kind of be okay is that when you take you know 500 of those well that wouldn't be so bad is is that we have have really ended up at the place that you're talking about which is this
▶ 2:10:1624% of cost and then as I mentioned earlier I think that uh kind of an untabulated cost is the risk that that adds due to the delay that's inhering in it right uh so so continuing on this um you know another example of the burdensome impact of environmental regulations is the broad application of the National Environmental Protection act or or NEPA um you know NEPA was originally intended for large scale
▶ 2:10:46industrial projects you know like uh power plants you know with with significant environmental impacts and today it is expanded to include housing construction which creates costly delays on projects so you know to you Mr Compton uh how should NEPA be reformed to make housing construction faster more affordable and still maintain you know sensible Environmental Protections uh thank you Congressman um I I think in in particular first is to recognize that NEPA is not a substantive environmental
▶ 2:11:17regulation it is instead simply process it doesn't it does doesn't say what you have to do it simply says how you have to do it and and it imposes an enormous burden in terms of time on many projects that are subject to it and and it is even broader than what you mentioned I mean for instance a project that has project-based vouchers from HUD is now subject to NEPA this is far beyond I think what was originally intended as you mentioned for nuclear plants hydroelectric dams and and Air Force bases uh and I think
▶ 2:11:47that what the Congress did in 2023 uh in the fiscal responsibility act really lays the groundwork for Meaningful change in the regulations courts of hell that the existing C CQ Rags are unconstitutional this is the time to really take a new look at this and I think that great progress can be made in this area well thank you very much unfortunately I've run out of time so uh Mr chair I yield gentleman yields I'd like to thank all of our Witnesses for your testimony today
▶ 2:12:17without objection all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses to the chair the questions will be forwarded to the witnesses for their responses Witnesses please respond no later than April 30 2025 this hearing is adjourned great to meet yeah good to meet you to we get to work together yeah yeah here's
▶ 2:12:48here's my card so