▶ 0:00:00today's hearing will investigate the current landscape around antitrust liability for the NCAA which has created issues around name image and likeness payments known as nil the transfer portal and eligibility rules in college athletics a series of Court opinions finding antitrust liability against the NCAA most notably the Supreme Court's 20121 Altin decision calls into question legality of any rules that limit compensation for student athletes
▶ 0:00:31further a patchwork of state laws has made it difficult if not impossible for the NCAA to regulate nil payments to athletes an additional ongoing litigation strongly suggest rules governing student athletes transferring schools and eligibility requirements will also be found to violate the antitrust laws college sports is rapidly heading in the direction of unlimited payments unlimited transfers and no rules around who is eligible to
▶ 0:01:02compete in October of 2024 the US District Court for the Northern District of California granted preliminary approval of a settlement agreement in house versus the NCAA known as the house settlement that paves the way for the first Revenue sharing model in college athletics it also creates a framework to govern nil payments from so-called quote unquote boosters also known as collectives and replaces scholarship caps with roster
▶ 0:01:35caps the house settlement does not resolve other Penning antitrust litigation against the NCAA nor does it immunize the it from many subsequent antitrust challenges further the house settlement is the product of the NCAA conferences and the plain's lawyers schools coaches and athletes largely did not have a seat at that table under the current framework work any rule that the NCAA attempts to enforce will face immediate litigation and history
▶ 0:02:05suggests that the NCAA will likely lose time most people can agree that the NCAA went too far with their regulations in the past for example the NCAA placed rules around the exact type of snacks student athletes could receive from teams prohibited transfers without penalty and barred legitimate thirdparty anal nil payments the NCAA was too late to acknowledge that some
▶ 0:02:36college sports are large commercial Enterprises and certain student athletes bring Great Value to their schools but now college sports has largely lost any resemblance of the amateur sports that they used to be or Collegiate Spirit even when the cost of a sport consistently and greatly exceeds any revenue from it college sports are Rife with play pay for pay play for pay schemes from boosters in schools and the educational mission of College
▶ 0:03:06athletics has been eroded specifically multiple transfers hinder Pathways to graduation and a lack of Eligibility rules encourage individuals to stay in college long beyond the average 4-year period coaches are finding it difficult to manage their teams because students can transfer at a drop of a hat this scenario leaves coaches without a functioning roster and harm to student athletes that value consistency in educational and sports programs colleges must
▶ 0:03:36also shift their recruiting strategies recruiting high school athletes is not the focus for some coaches anymore because getting athletes from the transfer portal is more cost effective than training the next generation of athletes from the group up the inability of the NCAA to set rules has turned college and Athletics into what would be called by some semi-professional Endeavor focused more and more on men's football and
▶ 0:04:06basketball the witnesses we have today are perfectly prepared to supply members of the committee with the required information to better inform us as we work on possible solutions to help ensure that College athletics programs remain accessible for the next generation of student athletes I want to thank the witnesses for appearing before us today and look forward to hearing what each of you has to say
▶ 0:04:36um I also want to address uh without objection Mr Fry and Mr moscowitz will be permitted to participate in today's hearing for the purposes of questioning the witnesses if a member yields them time for that purpose yeah I now will recognize our uh ranking member Mr Nadler and uh
▶ 0:05:07recognize him for his opening statement thank you Mr chairman Mr chairman the business of college sports b a business that generates billions of dollars a year has seen dramatic changes in recent years and the industry continues to evolve rapidly College athletes are being recognized and compensated for their talents and contributions as never before and new models of compensation continue to develop through litigation and other competitive pressures but now the NCAA which
▶ 0:05:37generates nearly $ 1.3 billion doar a year in Revenue wants to stop this progress dead in its tracks it wants Congress to step in and protect the NCAA its conferences and schools from having to share a greater percentage of the of the money they R in each year with with their unpaid athletes without whom there would be no Revenue in the first place unfortunately instead of highlighting the need for continued reforms to the college athletic system to protect the rights of its athletes
▶ 0:06:07today we are considering whether a repeat Anti-Trust offender should get a ba bailout and be allowed to turn back many of these recent changes while diminishing the voice of college athletes in perpetuity the NCAA has lobbied Congress for years seeking exemptions from our laws to preserve their Monopoly on college sports for example in the wake of title 9's passage ushering in historic opportunities for women in sports the then all male NCAA sought exemptions
▶ 0:06:37from the law in advance of litigation with the potential to disrupt their control over broadcast rights the NCAA sought Congressional Intervention when faced with lawsuits that could bring an end to their suppression of athletes ability to capitalize on their personal publicity rights also called name image and likeness or nil the NCAA asked Congress to step in and now the NCAA is back asking us once again to take action on their behalf to turn back the clock on many recent
▶ 0:07:07changes to the Collegiate system and to render College athletes voiceless and Powerless the only professional sports that enjoys the antitrust exemption the NCAA seeks is baseball and for decades this exemption suppressed professional baseball players abilities to unionize make needed reforms to their Sport and obtain competitive salaries but now many of the same Republican lawmakers who have decried Major League Baseball's antitrust exemption want to Grant the same
▶ 0:07:37Safe Harbor from our competition laws to the NCAA we have ample evidence that antitrust exemptions generally suppress wages block access to necessary health and safety protections and undermine competition there is no reason to contemplate a bailout for the NCAA especially when it has demonstrated little regard for our competition laws while failing to protect athletes from exploited while paying coaches and executive and Executives
▶ 0:08:08exorbitant salaries from the hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue generated by college athletes the NCAA insists in e s from Congress to suppress players wages and rights to employment status while looking the other way on academic fraud the NCAA insists that the current system is necessary to protect quote student ath athletes close quote the NCAA knows that athletes often miss class and cannot pursue their major of choice because of practice and travel
▶ 0:08:38schedules yet they hold out the academic aspect of a College's athletes of a college athletes experience as all important while the NCAA insists it needs a bailout to ensure the survival of Olympic sports and to protect women athletes it has failed to sufficiently promote those Sports and has failed to ensure its member schools follow Title we should not reward the NCAA by placing restrictions on necessary changes to the Collegiate athletic system changes which are notably
▶ 0:09:08benefiting the athletes already and which the NCAA continues to resist and decry it is not just College athletes who are concerned about the special protections the NCAA is seeking the players associations of all the major professional sports have also waited in a joint statement they wrote quote nil legislation reporting to protect athletes should not be used as a trojan horse to nullify athletes legal uh
▶ 0:09:38legal rights or status legislation that is meant to protect College athletes should under no circumstances eliminate or diminish their rights under contract toward antitrust Andor labor laws close quote similarly in response to proposed legislation that would affirm that college athletes are employees under the national Labor Relations Act The Players Association wrote quote collective bargaining has immeasurably benefited the workers we represent and professional sports as a
▶ 0:10:08whole athletes enjoy elevated health and safety standards medical benefits Fair compensation and other rights both on and off the field leagues and teams can negotiate roster construction player reserve and other competitive regulations and fans receive the most compelling entertainment product in the world the same result is achievable at the co collegate level close quote Mr chairman college sports have the power to bring communities together and
▶ 0:10:38to Electrify the nation the college football playoffs brought heat to a cold winter and this month the country will be riveted by March Madness perhaps the best way to fully appreciate College athletes is to watch them perform at the highest levels please play the video for the inbounder looking the bounce Garcia
▶ 0:11:09we are up casy O'Brien sent on net and Harvey once more the Badgers will his first touch and typical Aston jenty looking to go you can't bring him down is he yes he Thomas B oh my the Superstar strikes for North Carolina what a goal
▶ 0:11:39the 1 in the air left center field on the Move won get there Tennessee walks it off she was an Unstoppable Force last season against Iowa but was coming off the bench CL oh from the future as you can see NCAA college sports are compelling they're exciting they're electric and people want to see them
▶ 0:12:10advertisers know this and that is why the business of college sports is so lucrative but people are tuning in to see great athletes and it is only fair that the athletes see a portion of the revenue generated by their performances college sports have also brought many non-financial benefits to its athletes from life lessons about teamwork building a strong worth e work ethic and gaining leadership skills to promoting health and wellness and for some it also has the potential to set them on the path
▶ 0:12:40to professional Glory but for too many athletes the current system is failed them important changes are underway that have begun to level the playing field and more are being considered we should not put our thumb on the scale in favor of an organization that too often has placed its profits over the interest of it athletes I thank our Witnesses for being here today and I look forward to their testimony I yield back gentleman yields back I now recognize the chairman of the full committee who he
▶ 0:13:10himself is a two-time national champion wrestler from the University of Wisconsin you w supposed to say that last part Mr Jordan H thank you chairman I want to thank you for uh for putting this here together for all the good work you're doing for our Witnesses for being here I think there are two fundamental questions should we get involved and if so what should we do and this is one of those relatively r rare times in Congressional hearings where we don't have any at least on the Republican side any predetermined outcome about what what we should be doing we're we are trying to get the answers I do think it's interesting
▶ 0:13:41the clip that the ranking member played my guess is almost every single one of those programs that were in whatever respective sport was was being shown most of those uh programs uh probably lose money probably don't make money uh there's a handful of universities that athletic departments that do and trying to figure it all out and figure out what means to Olympic sports and everything all these questions we have so we're trying to get the answers that's why I appreciate the experts that we brought in today um and it's good that one of those experts is is the athletic director from the school I happen to go to and both our boys graduated
▶ 0:14:11from as well the University of Wisconsin so we thank you in particular for being here so we just want to learn uh but I do want to thank the chairman for the hard work he has done in putting this together and helping us try to figure out if we should get involved and if so what we should do with that I yield back J yields back um without objection all other opening statements will be included in the record uh we will now introduce today's Witnesses Mr Chris McIntosh Mr McIntosh is director
▶ 0:14:41of Athletics at the University of Wisconsin a position he has held since July of 2021 he previously served as Deputy of Athletics and as the athletic director from 2017 to 2021 and was himself a Wisconsin student athlete in the late 19 1990s when he was a consensus All-American tackle and captain on the football team Mr Macintosh was a first round pick in the 2000 NFL Draft by the Seattle Seahawks where he played several
▶ 0:15:12seasons before retiring Miss Carol Smith Gilbert Carol Miss Smith Gilbert is the director of men's and women's track and field at the University of Georgia a position she has held since June of 2021 she previously served as the Director of track and field at the University of Southern California where her teams won multiple national championships Miss Smith Gilbert was a three time All-American and pack 10 champion in the 100 meter
▶ 0:15:42and the 4X 100 meter relay and the 4x4 relay during the 1990s at UCLA Mr Alberto is the head coach of the swim and dive program at the University of Louisville a position he has held since 2003 his teams and athletes have earned multiple NCAA and conference championships during his tenure uh he was also named to the coaching staff for the US national team for the 20
▶ 0:16:122016 Olympic Games in Rio he was a 18-time All-American and three-time NCAA Champion swimmer at Oakland University during the 1990s and Mr Andrew Cooper Mr Cooper is the executive director of theed United College athletes Association a nonprofit organization that seeks to ensure student athletes are safe educated and compensated he ran cross country at Washington State University
▶ 0:16:42and UC Berkeley we welcome our Witnesses and thank them all for appearing today we will Begin by swearing you in would you please rise and raise your right hand do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge information and belief so help you God let the record reflect
▶ 0:17:12that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative uh thank you all and please seated please know that your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety accordingly we ask that you summarize your testimony in 5 minutes Mr McIntosh you may begin chairman Fitzgerald ranking member Nadler chairman Jordan and distinguished members of the committee thank you for allowing me to be with you today and to
▶ 0:17:42talk about the state of College athletics both the life-changing opportunity that it has and continues to afford to hundreds of thousands of high potential young people along with the many challenges posed by the numerous uncertainties that we Face my name is Chris Macintosh and I had the privilege of serving as the athletic director at the University of Wisconsin Madison I was fortunate to play football at the University of Wisconson it was the experience of a lifetime I blocked for a Heisman Trophy winner won two big 10 football
▶ 0:18:13championships and two Rose Bowls and then went on to play a few seasons in the NFL before injury ended career as the years following my career continued to accumulate a few things had become very clear to me first what an amazing gift it was to pursue my dreams second the education that I received the multiple degrees that I have earned from the worldclass University like the University of Wisconsin Madison are powerful they were made possible to me
▶ 0:18:43because of a sport third the life lessons taught to me and the mentoring I received by top-notch Hall of Fame caliber coaches like Barry Alvarez well that all just changed my life our College athletics system this American System the tethering of sport and education is truly unique it's a system where athletes not only compete at top levels of sport but also receive a valuable education that benefits them for the rest of their lives it's a system that my two
▶ 0:19:13oldest children my daughter who are divis my daughters who are division one volleyball players are experiencing now it's the same system that my 16-year-old son aspires to participate in waking up every morning working out before school is it a perfect system it is not but it has and it continues to evolve our system has made great strides since the days in which I competed the opportunity for young people today for our student athletes is better than it's ever been today we provide
▶ 0:19:43guaranteed scholarships for athletes irrespective of their playing time continuing health care for athletically related injuries and funding for degree completion even after eligibility has been exhausted I am passionate about ensuring that our system continues to improve and that current and future student athletes enjoy the same life-changing experience that I and so many others have benefited from at Wisconsin we support nearly 800 student athletes competing in 23 Varsity Sports
▶ 0:20:13we believe in education broad-based opportunity and competitive Excellence for all of our Sports at Wisconsin and most other autonomy 4 programs the cost of a worldclass opportunity for student athletes is funded largely by football 80% of our revenues in one form or another are derived from the sport of football most other athletic programs benefit disproportionately from revenues generated by The nc2a Men's Basketball Tournament there is no doubt
▶ 0:20:44that College athletics is at an inflection point where the decisions made in the near future will Define the landscape for generations to come it is critical now more than ever that Congress worked together to pass meaningful legislation that stabilizes College athletics for Generations we need your help to enhance this model of opportunity for all sports not just for football and basketball and in order to achieve that I believe we owe it to our student athletes to ensure that student athletes can rightfully enjoy the benefits
▶ 0:21:14of the pending house settlement and the direct sharing of Revenue that if approved it will provide while being permitted to continue to monetize their name image and likeness through market-based opportunities that there is room for future student athletes by allowing us to create and enforce Common Sense rules that align with the educational mission of college sports and allow for a fair environment that we can create rules that allow student athletes to transfer to another
▶ 0:21:45institution but without systematically sacrificing their academic progress while ensuring that players who do remain with their team have a better idea of who their teammates will be The Following season and that student athletes are not considered to be employees of their institutions and that we can ensure consistency across the country avoiding the state-by-state patchwork of laws intended to create a competitive Advantage for instate programs we look forward to working together with
▶ 0:22:15Congress to ensure that this uniquely American System of College athletics can be preserved enhanced and allowed to thrive thank you for allowing me to be here today and I look forward to answering any of your questions thank you Mr M Megos Miss Smith Gilbert you begin chairman Fitzgerald ranking member nler and distinguished members of the committee good morning my name is Carol Smith Gilbert and I am the director of men's and women's track and field at the University
▶ 0:22:45of Georgia it is an honor to testify before you today as we examine the current state of College athletics track and field is one of the most diverse and accessible sports in the world offering education opportunities to women underrepresented students and international athletes for more than 25 years I have coached and developed student athletes including Olympians and national champions without scholarships many of these athletes would not have the opportunity to attend college at all and
▶ 0:23:15I speak from personal experience neither my husband nor myself would have been able to afford the college education re received without an scholarship we both agree that our college athletic experience saved Our Lives the student athletes our coach are not just competitors they are students pursuing an education and an opport opportunity to build a future Beyond sports for most scholarships are the only way they can afford a college degree and obtaining a college degree
▶ 0:23:46is truly the most important thing to be clear the number of athletes who are able to have a long and lucrative professional career in track and field is extremely small so my goal is to to ensure that they achieved their potential on the track and in the classroom so that they are prepared for Life After College athletics yet today track and field and other non-revenue sports are at risk the current nil environment without a clear uniform National Standard threatens scholarships
▶ 0:24:16undermines roster stability and creates uncertainty for athletes coaches and programs of equal importance implementing employment model an employment model would be a devastating would be devastating for non-revenue sports today our student athlete receives critical resources nutritionists athletic trainers academic advisers at no cost but as employees they would have to be responsible for many of these expenses themselves and for non-revenue sports
▶ 0:24:47like track and field the student athletes aren't making lucrative nil deals that can support them past college instead of providing more opportunities an employment model would make it harder for young athletes to compete while pursuing a degree and a college degree provides young people with the lifetimes worth of support my view on nil is different from coaches in Revenue generating Sports unlike those Sports where nil deals can be lucrative my athletes earn little to no nil money
▶ 0:25:17instead they rely on scholarships academic support and University provided resources to train and compete at an elite level if I am correct in my concerns about the future of Olympic sports programs the US developmental program will be seriously damaged I know this because in sports like track and field and swimming College programs are the Olympic development program it isn't theoretical of the 118 athletes who competed for Team
▶ 0:25:47USA in track and field during the Paris sum summer olympics 114 developed through the college system only four did not that's speaks to the critical role that the college athletics plays in Olympic Athlete development my personal fear is without regulation all money will be spent on football and the impact on non-revenue and Olympic sports will be devastating I'm concerned many universities will eliminate many Olympic sport programs
▶ 0:26:17depriving countless students of the same opportunities I experien thanks to college track and field to ensure the future of colle to ensure the future of College athletics remain strong I urge Congress to protect universities from excessive litigation which diverts necessary money from our athletes and to prevent student athletes from being classified as employees as doing so will for schools to defund and ultimately eliminate non-revenue sports I am
▶ 0:26:47grateful for the committee's attention on this critically important issue and I urge you to pass legislation to establish uniform rules that will minimize the chaos and Max maximize the opportunity for student athletes especially for those in non-revenue sports to be able to attend college compete athletically and graduate with a valuable college degree thank you for your time and consideration I look forward to your questions thank you Miss Smith Gilbert Mr alir
▶ 0:27:20albiero chairman Jordan ranking member Rasin chairman Fitzgerald ranking member Nadler and distinguished members of the sub commmittee on the administrative state regulatory reform and antitrust thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today on the important topic of legislative support for College athletics my name is Arthur albiero and I'm honored to testify before this committee I come before you as a longtime coach a committed advoc for the student athletes and someone who believes deeply in the values that Collegiate Athletics
▶ 0:27:51can provide to young men and young women values like education opportunity and the development of leadership in character I have had the privilege of being a college swim coach for almost 29 years and I'm currently in my 22nd season as the had men's and women's swimming and Diving coach at the University of Louisville I'm a former Collegiate swimmer when I attended Oakland University in Cy State Bakersfield I've also been fortunate to be a coach for Team USA in many International competitions I've been married for almost 30 years to my wife Amy also
▶ 0:28:21a former Collegiate swimmer and I'm the father of three children who grew up swimming and all participated in College swimming at the University of louisv in fact our youngest daughter will be finishing her College swimming career the NCA championships next week as a coach at the University of louo I'm proud of the growth and development of the swimming and Diving programs we have gone from a program at the bottom of Conference USA to a program now that has consistently been one of the top teams in the country based on my experience I have seen firsthand the transform transformative
▶ 0:28:51power and impact the college sports and specifically swimming and Diving can have on young men and women while I'm certainly proud of the athletes accomplishments in the pool I'm just as proud of their accomplishments outside the pool we have countless success stories of former swimmers who are now doctors Engineers nurses business owners CPAs lawyers for bright Scholars and more these now adults are leaders in their communities and they are making a difference in our country at Louisville our student athletes dedicate themselves fully to
▶ 0:29:21their craft striving for excellence both in the sport and in the classroom in fact our fall 2024 main diving team GPA were 343 for the men's program and 351 for the women's program I give all the credit of these success success stories to the current structure of our program at the University of Louisville we certainly do the work in the pool but our student athletes are also the beneficiaries of a robust benefit structure including mental health support comprehensive nutrition education and support Medical
▶ 0:29:51Care and support athletic academic support services including recovery massage therapy for a full full scholarship athlete at the University of louvo these benefits could total over $100,000 annually unfortunately the current structure of college sports compounded by the complexities of the antitrust law placed these athletes in their Sports and now in a precarious situation while the proposed house settlement will provide a measure of structure to the nil landscape it also has consequences for athletic departments that do not generate enough Revenue
▶ 0:30:22to cover the the expenses for all of its Sports over the last few years many schools across the in have announced Sports Cuts or completely eliminated programs in anticipation of the challenges ahead it's crucial that any action by Congress recognize the unique challenges facing non-revenue sports non-revenue sports provide invaluable experiences for the for the student athletes these programs can be particularly vulnerable when institutions are now forced to make tough financial decisions preserve and
▶ 0:30:52preserving and straining the sports is essential for the future of Collegiate Athletics and for upholding fairness equity and the principles of Title 9 I have serious concerns about student athletes potentially becoming classified as employees this could create an a number of undesirable and unintended consequences including taxation changes in medical services and the opportunities in general for non Revenue Sports the required Financial administrative burden of treating treating student athletes as employees could force in institutions to make even more
▶ 0:31:22difficult decisions about how many sports institutions are able to offer in this critical moment Cong Congress has a unique and important opportunity to address the issues facing College athletics particular non-revenue Sports through leg legis legislative legislative action the current climate presents a pivotal moment in which Congress can shape the future of College athletics in a way that aligns with its commitment to fairness equity and opportunity for all student athletes we know that Congressional help is important to ensure student athletes are not employees and
▶ 0:31:52that nil has some federal guidelines however I would ask that any Congressional Support also includes protection for the 78% of student athletes who do not compete in football or basketball because without them a youth sports Pipeline and ultimately Olympic movement will collapse as I conclude I want to emphasize that the decisions made in the near future will have a lasting impact on the future of College athletics preserve women's sports and non-revenue sports is not just about fairness it's about upholding the very ideals that make College
▶ 0:32:23athletics so special these programs provide a platform for athletes to succeed both in the Sports and education and they represent a crucial part of the college experience for thousands of young men and women across the country I urge you to consider the long-term implications of some of these decisions and to act in a way that Fosters fairness equity and opportunity for all thank you thank you Mr albiero Mr Cooper you may begin thank you Mr chairman ranking member and distinguished members of the committee I'm a former track
▶ 0:32:53athlete at Washington State University in UC Berkeley and I now serve as the executive director of the United College athletes Association the ucaa is a nonprofit that educates college athletes and unites their voices to advocate for safety mandates academic protections and economic rights ultimately to ensure the nca's business model is safe fair and sustainable for future generations and for the players who generate the revenue currently 12 women's basketball players
▶ 0:33:23in the Big 10 and SEC have joined the ucaa to secure a voice in the ncaa's Monopoly when I say the NCAA is a monopoly that is not my opinion that is the Supreme Court's unanimous ruling in Alon vnca where the court found that the NCAA is a monopoly as Justice kavanau concurred quote the ncaa's business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America the NCAA is not above
▶ 0:33:53the law end quote after failing in the Supreme Court the NCAA is now begging Congress for an antitrust bailout to be above the law because they want to continue enriching themselves through this Monopoly in fact according to the ncaa's publicly available tax returns as a 501c3 nonprofit in 2022 the NCA paid its top 16 administrators an average salary of over $800,000 a year over the last 40 years our antitrust
▶ 0:34:23laws have been the only force that have held the NCA accountable first in 1984 then in 1999 when coaches sued to end the nca's cap on their salaries again in 2014 and most recently in 2021 before granting the NCAA an antitrust bailout we should first ask ourselves a fundamental question can we trust the nciaa because history has shown that the nciaa cannot be trusted for example in a
▶ 0:34:542013 wrongful death suit the NCA confessed in for quote the NCAA denies that it has a legal duty to protect College athletes end quot then in 2020 Senator Blackburn stated quote the NCAA has failed when it comes to women in sports sexual harassment sexual abuse how in the world are we going to be able to get trust the NCA to get this right Senator Blackburn was referring to the sexual assault scandal at Baylor
▶ 0:35:24where the nca's investigation ultimately concluded no rules were violated because rape is not an NCAA violation and just last year the government accountability office found that only 7% of colleges even comply with Title 9 even the nca's most powerful institutions now don't trust the NCAA which is why the power four conferences have formed a new limited liability company to independently police ni and revenue sharing outside of the nca's purview moving
▶ 0:35:54forward if the NCA cannot be trusted by parents to keep athletes safe and they cannot be trusted by their own conferences how can Congress trust them with the unchecked power of an bailout one sec athletic director even anonymously admitted quote let's be honest we're all money laundering end quote given that reality if the NCA gets an antitrust bailout how do we hold them accountable when they inevitably abuse that power further have
▶ 0:36:25we considered how congress's actions here could permanently politicize college sports forever that's why Senator Kennedy told the NCA president quote you may regret asking Congress to intervene here all of a sudden you're going to be micromanaged end quote instead of giving the NCA a bailout Justice kavanau proposed a solution quote colleges and college athletes could potentially engage in collective bargaining or seek some other negotiated agreement the solution is simple partner with the players
▶ 0:36:55and give them an independent voice in this business that's exactly what the UCA is doing but the Big 10 and SEC are refusing to meet with the players actions speak louder than words and the nca's actions prove they cannot be trusted with an exemption from the laws I urge this committee to reject the ncaa's request because it would erode our country's fundamental antitrust laws set dangerous precedent for other billion dollar monopolies and permanently politicize college sports Congress wields a big
▶ 0:37:25stick and using it as a suing needle to reshape the fundamental fabric of college sports may cause much more harm permanently than good Instead This committee should force the NCA to Simply follow the same laws as every other business in this country thank you and I look forward to your questions thank you Mr Cooper we'll now uh proceed under the five minute rule with uh some questions and I will uh I will start
▶ 0:37:55that with a question from for Coach Smith Gilbert uh coach budget uh constraints are not only measured in scholarships and roster spots as you know uh to have a successful track and field team you need modern training equipment and worldclass Facilities uh you also need support staff uh like Personnel trainers nutritionists and strength and conditioning coaches can you talk about how budget constraints affect these types of support services and how that can affect your ability to recruit and retain
▶ 0:38:26the best track and field athletes overall yes um as anybody who who runs at all knows your body is your Implement and track and Fields so in our sport what you put in your body what you eat how you train um where you train the type of surface you run on all those things make a difference um there's a SE there's a lot of money we put in every year to just one student athlete one by one
▶ 0:38:56to make sure they are ready to be at their best at an elite level and as I said we are the the uh groundwork for the US Olympic team so without these resources if if if resources go elsewhere and we don't get them anymore I don't see how we're going to be able to maintain uh developing Elite athletes without the money to do it thank you
▶ 0:39:26Mr competing at the Olympics is a dream for many young athletes around the country and the United States has a long history of strong athletic performance at the Olympics however the sports uh where American athletes excel at the Olympics generally don't make money for universities but um I I kind of preface that with how do you as the Director of Athletics how do you balance the Investments at Wisconsin in non-revenue sports against investments in Revenue
▶ 0:39:57generating sports like football as you mentioned in your testimony well thank you chairman Fitzgerald um first of all we're very proud of the 17 Olympians that we had at the University of Wisconsin last year's games uh it's a point of Pride for us U I mentioned earlier that 80% of our revenues are uh generated by the sport football football serves as the financial engine that underwrites the cost of opportunity for just about everyone one
▶ 0:40:27of our other sports hundreds of athletes uh and the opportunity that they have to pursue their dreams athletically obtain a degree have the type of experience that's lifechanging is made possible by the revenues generated by football into a much lesser extent men's basketball that's the model that's the model that we Embrace that's the model that as an athlete myself when I was 20 years old I may not have understood the benefits of the way I do today
▶ 0:40:57as I mentioned having two daughters that are division one volleyball players today very good thank you coach albiero uh with the restrictions of the transfer portal eligibility lifted as a result of several State lawsuits uh and then couple that with uh changes to the nil uh we're seeing athletes particularly those who will not turn professional extending their collegiate career beyond the traditional four-year term so I'm just wondering
▶ 0:41:28it can you just talk about your experience so far with the portal and and how that has affected decisions that your athletes made thank you um I think more than anything providing some opportunity for uh choice right I I I'm not against that in any way shape or form I think what the portal has created um in the sport of swimming it's not like the athletes are trying to go shop around for another opportunity it's created academic opportunities for potential master's and so on and so
▶ 0:41:58forth so it's not a problem necessarily that has impacted our sport tremendously um now with potential changes coming up the transfer portal could be a much bigger impact very good thank you uh coach Smith Gilbert uh kind of a similar along the similar lines do do you have what's been your experience with the portal so far do you have kind of this back and forth that's been going on with your athletes even in the non-revenue setting uh yes it's it's affected does quite a bit in track and field
▶ 0:42:28and cross country uh the main thing that concerns me is they're having more trouble be being in Majors that they actually want to be in because when they transfer they lose a lot of credits from one school to the next um I do think they should be able to go and transfer wherever they want but I think the unlimited transfers have caused a problem with academic progress and in my sport as I said earlier getting a degree is the main thing very good thank you my time has expired
▶ 0:42:59we now recognize the ranking member for five minutes for his series of questions thank you m excuse me thank you Mr chairman Mr Cooper is it fair to say that the NCAA is a repeat antitrust offender yes and how many times is the ncaaa lost in court on antitrust grounds at least four times so far and the NCAA still faces antitrust violation claims today correct yes the proposed house settlement contains both a salary cap
▶ 0:43:29and a roster cap should these be subject to antitrust scrutiny and if so why yes because the NCAA should follow the same laws as every other business in this country all of which have um all of which are subject to Anti-Trust laws unless they secure an exemption through collective bargaining like every other professional sports league in this country now the NCAA has argued that an anti exemption is necessary to protect colleges gen
▶ 0:43:59to protect College athletics generally and is especially important to protect Sports other than football and basketball do you think that an antitrust exemption would be appropriate and how much would such an and how would such an exemption affect athletes an exemption is not appropriate um and on the notion that there is not enough money uh is categorically false in the Big 10 the collective endowment of those universities alone is nearly
▶ 0:44:31billion um and in terms of the spending in the power four uh the average uh operating revenue for a power four institution was 158 million a year in 2022 uh their spending on coaches salaries was 29 million a year per school and 27 million a year on admin uh and their average spend on medical expenses was 1.9 9 million per school and how much is that lead for the athletes
▶ 0:45:02how much of the spending is on athletes and on student aid they spent million on average per school and you don't think an antitrust why would not an ant why would an antitrust exemption not be appropriate you said it wouldn't an antitrust exemption wouldn't be appropriate because it would give the NCA power um to abuse the laws and uh Force athletes to uh I mean not follow the same laws as every other business in this
▶ 0:45:32country they would continue enriching themselves off the backs of athletes without paying their labor force and if the NCAA wanted to protect Olympic sports at colleges what are some of the things it could do the NCA has zero policies that protect Olympic sports currently um a simple thing they could do is mandating a one-year notice period where the NCA has to give notice that they are planning or that a school is planning to cut a sport um they could also
▶ 0:46:02pass a policy that says if your school has over 100 million dollar a year in Revenue you can't SP cut Sports because you can't justify that you don't have enough Revenue to support those Sports thank you miss aliero you noted the importance of Title 9 but the GAO found that only seven less than 7% of schools comply with Title 9 and the NCAA refuses to require Title 9 compliance and even found systemic abuse to not violate their rules Mr Alero couldn't the NCAA
▶ 0:46:33act to ensure women have equal opportunity and they're not abused by coaches thank thank you for the question um in my opinion um we strive very hard as the University of Louisville to comply to ti9 um rules um certainly as a coach of uh female Sport and as a as a father of a daughter who happens to swim um I feel Title 9 has been an amazing opportunity and created um
▶ 0:47:03an opportunity for athletes to to grow and a protection from me you're saying that at your school you do that sure but the GAO found that less than 7% of schools comply with Title 9 and the NCAA refuses to require Title 9 compliance and even found systemic abuse to not violate their rules so how would you uh say why shouldn't the NCAA be required to ensure women have equal opportunity and they're not abused by their coaches yeah I'm I'm I'm not preview to
▶ 0:47:34other things are happening around the country if I may okay Mr Macintosh you said in your statement that quote it is extremely important to the Educators at our institutions that the focus of a student athletes College tenure remain based on education unquote if that is the case then why do athletes Miss class for sports if it is extremely thank you ranking member Nadler um I think it's important to note that 94% of our student athletes graduate
▶ 0:48:04that's our most recent graduation rate um while the schedule can be difficult and time constraints can be tight our student athletes have shown that they can be successful in over 140 diverse uh uh programs within our University gentlemen's time has expired now back now Rec chairman Jordan for 5 minutes uh thank you Mr chairman Mr Macintosh if we follow Mr Cooper's plan happens thank you chairman
▶ 0:48:34Jordan um I think what happens is college athletes are eventually deemed to be employees and that's a model that um I've not had a student athlete ask to be deemed employee what happens to non-revenue sports what's happened to the Olympics I look let me back up a second I'm not a fan of the NCA necessarily but I am a fan of providing opportunity to young adults who want to compete while they're pursuing higher educ while they're pursuing their degree Mr Cooper says
▶ 0:49:05if we follow his plan uh well if we follow his plan what's going to happen to the non-revenue the Olympic sports that miss that Smith Miss Smith Gilbert talked about yeah um chairman Jordan there'll be a tremendous amount of financial pressure placed on institutions I think admittedly in conferences like the big 10 we could find a way to make it work I think it will be detrimental to Olympic sports at lower levels well when when I had Mr sanki the SEC commissioner in he said if we don't do something
▶ 0:49:35he anticipates that you lose all kinds of Olympic sports he says you're going to go to you know three now of course the NC I think division one you got to have what 16 Sports to be yeah so he says we're going to go to the everyone's going to go to 16 and they'll be football basketball whatever sport fits that school uh in the men's side and then you'll have the comp number or a higher number of women's sports to satisfy Title 9 uh is is that what you think happens if we don't do something which is my big concern
▶ 0:50:06I think it's an accurate portrayal of of what a likely result might be now Mr Cooper just said uh you can as long as you give notice that we're going to hey we're going to drop your sport but we're going to give you a year to get ready or if you're an athletic department that makes I think you said over $100 million in Revenue uh then that that'll be enough to deal with the non-revenue problem is that does that work do you think I I think it's important just to just to let it be known we don't have any uh desire to drop an Olympic sport we have no desire to cut Olympic sport
▶ 0:50:36we have a desire to enhance the tradition that already exists within our Olympic sports um I don't know that giving one year's notice solves that problem I think there are ways in which we can ensure that Olympic Olympic sports Thrive within the house settlement can the University of Wisconsin I I think you said you had 171 million uh operating budget can you would you be able to the way things are going continue to offer the 22 sports you currently do that is correct you can do that yes sir and you think you can continue to do that even if
▶ 0:51:06nothing changes yes sir we'll be able to operate it's 23 Sports uh we'll be able to offer and operate 23 sports with world-class opportunity competitively academically made possible because of the stability provided by the house settlement that that was my next question the house settlement is and the revenue sharing with the house settlement you think will we'll we'll do that yes sir the house settlement allows us to be successful certainly in our Revenue sharing sports like I mentioned earlier those Revenue I'm sorry Revenue generating
▶ 0:51:36Sports those Sports fund the opportunity for all of our student athletes uh the unstable environment that we are currently operating in uh is not sustainable to us it's been a challenge and I think it's um been long overdue that we can now share revenues directly with those athletes uh in a in a fair way in a generous way and that will in turn support the old the entire model the entire ecosystem which we've been successful in the past thank you Miss Smith Gilbert you comments on some of the same things I asked
▶ 0:52:06Mr McIntosh if you could I felt like you were wanting to jump in there no I never want to jump in but thanks for the question um I think if we're talking from an employment standpoint um I'm not an employer I'm a teacher a leader and a mentor so I think if you if you make student athletes follow an employment model then it changes the relationship between the coach and the athlete
▶ 0:52:36um an athlete should not be put under the pressure of being employees at such a young age so Mr Albero yeah I wholeheartedly agree with that and I think ultimately um the impact in our sport sport of swimming and Diving which has been a foundational sport for the Olympic movement uh be severely impacted yeah I know we we've had we've had the USO in talk with us um we've had U women's volleyball Association
▶ 0:53:07the wrestling uh wrestling coaches association all are very concerned about what happens to if if we don't do something what happens to the non-revenue sports that are you know part of our as Miss Smith Gilbert talked about part of our Olympic uh training ground so um that's that's a big concern I have that I yeld back that's thank you chairman that gentleman yields back uh now recognize a ranking member for unanimous consent request Mr chairman I have two unanimous consent requests uh the first is I ask
▶ 0:53:37unanimous consent to enter into the record a post from bold.org titled good quote how do college athletes get paid it explains that only 1% of college athletes receive scholarships almost let me finish therefore most paid tuition their respective universities meaning Olympic sports are not a Law Center for for athletic departments without objection thank you the second unit consent request is uh I ask unit consent to enter into the record an article in the Washington post dated January 21st
▶ 0:54:082025 entitled college football is turn pro titled quote College T football has turned Pro let's talk about those tax breaks close quote which illustrates how top schools in the NCAA collected more than 3 billion dollar in Revenue in 2023 without having to pay taxes because of their framing that their athletic activities further education illustrating that the NCAA not only makes a high profit based uncompensated labor but also at the expense of us tax BS without objection thank you the uh ranking member
▶ 0:54:38of the full committee Mr Rasin is now recognized for five minutes thank you kindly Mr chairman uh the turps are on a roll the men's basketball team is piling up win after win including Saturday night against Northwestern and our women's team made it to the Big 10 quarterfinals uh thanks to recent changes these highly competitive basketball players can get some tangible benefits from their extremely lucrative play and work by monetizing their personal publicity rights players can now use their name their image their likeness
▶ 0:55:08um Revenue to invest in themselves and their families and their communities but we're talking about whether we should give further power to the NCAA a nominally nonprofit organization that collects hundreds of millions of dollars a year based primarily on the athletic performance of these students they want Federal statutory protections to enable them to roll back the positive changes that have been made for students to gain immunity from the consequences of breaking the law and to permanently prevent
▶ 0:55:38players from having a seat at the table the NCAA has repeatedly put institutional profits over players health and safety academic achievement and economic freedom it is a repeat offender of our Anti-Trust laws and has lobbied for decades to be wholly exempt from Title 9 in law enforcement uh the NCAA has had a L on college sports and the revenue they generate for decades and has consistently failed to make needed changes to help the student players without uh outside pressure consider the situation of college women basketball players
▶ 0:56:08the NCAA says that academics is a key part of the college athlete experience and yet women players complain that their travel schedules meant they can go for a month without attending any of their courses in person despite claiming to care about athletes the NCAA has allowed women basketball players to be press Ed to play through their injuries despite claiming to care about the balance between sports and academic achievement the NCA has allowed schools to refuse to recognize course credits for transfer students despite claiming
▶ 0:56:38to care about the student side of the college athletes life NCAA allow schools to prevent athletes from choosing the major they want if it conflicts with practice and travel schedules our division one women basketball players are commonly required to practice and play an average of 50 hours a week and yet for many many their low stien means they're paid less than $10 an hour and cannot afford rent women college basketball players make less on their name image and likeness than their male counterparts the Trump Administration recently retracted
▶ 0:57:09guidance that would have ensured personal publicity opportunities were distributed fairly among athletes the NCAA and the conference they work with want us to give them a law that would roll back recent positive changes for players give the NCAA and Conference immunity from the laws they break and keep the players voiceless forever we have consistently undervalued and underinvested in women's sports but now that women's college basketball is clearly a profitable business for schools conferences and the NCAA it's
▶ 0:57:39high time that women players get a seat at the table but a collection of 120 Division 1 basketball players has been rejected by the commissioners of the Big 10 in the SEC these players are not unionizing they're not striking they're just asking for a seat at the table asking for the chance to provide input to the people who control their Sport and their lives on the court colleagues let's not give these repeat offenders a bailout the NCAA only makes changes in response to Congressional pressure or lawsuits they've
▶ 0:58:09done little over the decades to make any proactive positive changes for the students and even today the conferences that make hundreds of Millions on uncompensated College athlete labor refuse even to sit down with the players who pay their salaries I thank our Witnesses for coming here uh Mr McIntosh wait are we on the openings okay Mr McIntosh um if I said that the NCAA earned $1.28 billion in Revenue
▶ 0:58:39um in the 2022 23 school year would that sound about right to you yes sir and if I said that the college football playoff series has brought in over $500 million of season in recent years is that correct that sounds right um do any of these billions of dollars of Revenue make their way into players pockets and I'm not talking about personal publicity rates here only about the shares of broadcast revenue does it make it to the players uh ranking member that's a great question I think it does make its way
▶ 0:59:10to the players through uh Altin payments cost of attendance and it funds the uh approximately $4 billion of reclaiming my time but just in terms of uh direct payment to the players Austin payments are direct players payments to players okay um Mr Cooper um uh until the house settlement is finalized players who create the revenues that fuel the most competitive colleges athletic departments pay the salaries in the operating budget of the NCAA and fund the conferences
▶ 0:59:41they will not get any money from these highly profitable broadcasting deals is that right they currently do not if the house settlement is approved then schools will be allowed to share up to 20 million a year with them however schools will not be required to share any of that Revenue okay and Mr oh sorry then I Y time has expired now recognize the gentlewoman from Wyoming for five minutes good morning and thank you for being here Mr Macintosh your testimony touches on the outside forces
▶ 1:00:11that are driving changes in Collegiate Sports as for negative changes you have identified those to the transfer portal which allows athletes to now transfer every year and face no ineligibility changes such as those are of great concern to me representing a less populated state with smaller schools in Wyoming which is a member of the Mountain West Conference which must compete for recruits and players with the power of five conferences and all other division one
▶ 1:00:42schools how have these changes incentivized or pressured student athletes to use the transfer portal more frequently thank you congresswoman I think it's a great question I think the combination of third party and IL and permissibility of unlimited transfers has uh put our coaches in a really tough position and uh it's caused our student athletes um it's harmed their academic progress It's created roster instability which
▶ 1:01:12I think is uh not fair to teammates on on those teams in short it's put us in extremely unstable environment I think uh this is an area in which we need help we need help from Congress to be able to create Common Sense rules that would allow student athletes to transfer for the right reasons um but also preserve their academic progress towards degree what are some of the recommendations that you would make in that regard I think um there have been
▶ 1:01:42many discussions and um explorations of possibilities uh Concepts like uh one transfer permissible in a period of time like these are areas that uh we would explore I think there is a need for a student athlete our student athlete voice in that discussion and these are the kind of things that we talk to with our student athletes one of the things that I see again especially coming from a state like Wyoming where we don't have professional sports our only sports are the University of Wyoming
▶ 1:02:12and it's incredibly important to the people of Wyoming that we maintain a competitive basketball team football team but we also have wrestling we have rodeo and that's something that I don't think people have talked much about the impact on Rodeo teams of you're what you're discussing today but I can see a circumstance where we might recruit somebody Josh Allen went to the University of Wyoming one of the greatest football players of all time and I can see where we would recruit someone to be the Cornerstone of a team only to have that person lured Away by another
▶ 1:02:42school which would essentially or could essentially destroy the entire program at least for that year if not for a longer period of time I think that that is a very significant uh issue that does need to be addressed and I want to protect the athletes as well but I think one of the things that we've always done when we look at school at at College athletics is this gives students an opportunity to be part of a team After High School to be part of a track and field team to be part of a swim team to have that um that that experience
▶ 1:03:13while at the same time going to college and getting the degree that is so necessary for their long-term well-being and Miss Smith Smith Gilbert when we have these kind of transfer situations what does that do to a students ultimate uh academic record and their ability to get the degree so that they have the successes long term because I would assume I don't know the percentage but I would assume it's a very small percentage of people who actually go on to make this a career that become professional athletes so providing that education I think
▶ 1:03:43is is highly important what is the TR the the ease of transfer do to the ability to um provide that acade the academic uh experience that need uh in this in the sport of track and field that's a really good question um congresswoman uh what I'm finding is unlimited transfers and you have to understand in track and field we may have four or five Windows of the transfer portal per year cross country has a window indoor has a window outdoor
▶ 1:04:13has a window so there's never stable so you may have someone running next this week at Nationals who may get in the portal on Monday and leave but they have to go to school and finish classes but it's in the middle of semester so they're looking around in the middle of the season to try to see where they can go where their credits will transfer well they'll be accepted to the next school or what I'm finding is as much as I push them to uh get a master's degree a lot of times depending on when they transfer
▶ 1:04:43it's not a viable option because maybe admissions isn't accepting um graduate degrees at that time or you're off track so they end up taking undergraduate classes all for nothing just anything to just be at the new school and I think that's very detrimental when they could have had a master's degree I think it is too one other issue and I'm almost out of time but I think we also need to talk about the regulation associated with um agents and their access to students and make sure that
▶ 1:05:14we are protecting the students from what could I would consider to be Predators almost in the way that they treat our athletes I don't have time to go into that but I very much appreciate you being here and addressing this comp at subject with that I yield back gentlem Neil's back now recognize uh ranking member Rasin for unanimous consent request thank you Mr chairman uh this one is from the New York Post entitled ex- Wisconsin Women's Basketball player makes disturbing abuse allegations against head coach and the other
▶ 1:05:44is from a press release from the University of Wisconsin Badgers titled Mosley resigns from Wisconsin Women's Basketball without without objection gentleman from California is now recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chairman first of all I'd like to start out with asking unanimous consent to submit documents for the record information sheet from Chapman University entitled Athletics NCAA division 3 fact sheet for congressional districts 40 and 46 letter dated
▶ 1:06:14March 10th of this year from Cal State Fullerton Department of Intercollegiate Athletics and both of these letters address the issue of college athletes becoming employees and ask Congress to address National landscape related to nil and other matters third letter from student athlete advisory committees division one two and three article from The Daily Breeze titled lyola mermont made a tough choice to drop Six Sports will similar will other universities
▶ 1:06:44follow and finally Bloomberg law article entitled carich unions Ray Spectre of scholarship tax hit without objection I want to start out by thanking the NCAA for making a total mess sports college given that track record we find ourselves today we're NCA is asking for an Anti-Trust
▶ 1:07:14exemption in perpetuity given that sports college sports are still evolving it's very interesting ask I just asked Mr chairman that we do have additional hearings to address these here all of us are college sports fans whether it be football basketball personally I love wrestling but do think the amount of money that's involved in college sports
▶ 1:07:45just USC recently signed 110 million contract 10 10year contract with their head coach of football on the other hand let me show you something this is the last football helmet for myam moer Cal feron second largest school in California 42,000 athletes in 1992 because of budget reasons
▶ 1:08:16students what did I sayet 42,000 athlete students students uh mostly Blue Collar Working Families my neighbor cut football in 1992 because of reasons 2010 they cut the wrestling team because of budgetary reasons this was especially painful to me because a lot of the kids in my neighborhood they're Street kids if it wasn't for wrestling God knows where they'd be
▶ 1:08:46and more importantly wrestling gave them a taste of success that has changed their lives now local athletic programs don't offer college wrestling limits their educational opportunities because most of them don't have scholarships they live in the neighborhood they've got to go to a place where they can live at home and Russell Mr chairman
▶ 1:09:17there are college athletes in 1,000 plus schools D2 D3 they're not football or powerhouses my issue my question today is how will these changes affect those blue collar middle class families students that are trying to get their education so my question to all of you beginning with Mr Cooper is how will
▶ 1:09:47allowing athletes to become employees help or harm these thousands of students that are trying to get a college education Mr Cooper and let's start talking about becoming employees go ahead so there's clearly a difference between D2 D3 and D1 institutions which is why the NCAA has those distinctions a similar distinction will inevitably be drawn between the power five and the rest of D1 because there's 32
▶ 1:10:17conferences in D1 and you know the lower resource institutions in D1 and Wisconsin and good bad good bad what do you mean if you're an employee that going to hurt well the same rules don't need to be imposed on every athlete um the D1 rules and D rules St this issue a little bit more then is what you're saying the solution isn't clear yet there isn't a simple solution that can be summarized in 30 seconds that applies to
▶ 1:10:47all a Mr I have8 seconds left Mr abiro yeah my concern again from a standpoint of swimming and Olympic sport uh non-revenue sport um the employee model uh would be extremely detrimental to us simple as starting with the the level of services that we provide from mental health support nutrition athletic training medical support all of a sudden those things could be taxed it creates a a a nmare very much Miss
▶ 1:11:19Smith um there the employee model will affect us in track and field because I have majority um student athletes from underserved communities and they're not going to have the money to pay for these resources they have no other way they could negotiate a collective bargaining contract to pay for those resources I I don't know about that I'm a track coach maybe Mr Macintosh Congressman what I would say is um
▶ 1:11:50I participated as a professional athlete as an employee I was injured in my second second year and I was terminated after my third year that's a system that uh is more adverse to an athlete than the system that we live in today in which our student athletes have guaranteed scholarships regardless of injury thank you Mr chairman M of time and like I said I do hope to have further hearings on this issue gentleman's time has expired now recognize the gentleman from Washington Mr bom
▶ 1:12:20well thank you Mr chairman uh and I am delighted that the uh committee is having uh this hearing this is a very important issue to me uh I came to Congress in part to to work specifically on this issue uh in the Washington State Legislature I was the chair of the Commerce labor and Sports Committee worked a lot on higher education issues and here I've helped uh found the bipartisan college sports uh caucus so this is a very important issue to me and I campaigned on this issue so I've spent a considerable amount of time talking to my voters because we uh care quite about uh quite
▶ 1:12:50a bit about this issue uh you know college sports is very very important to the American public it contributes to social cohesion it contributes to Opportunities uh for uh young people and it also is vitally important for our for our economies in our region these are highly subsidized public goods highly subsidized public goods uh that we're dealing with in college education and while I am delighted that we have uh two members from the Big 10 and the SEC here and I very much want to work with you on these issues it is difficult for me to sit here as someone from the Pack
▶ 1:13:2012 knowing that the greed of ESPN and the football programs that the Big 10 and the SEC have contributed to the breakdown in the traditional model in college athletics uh that's very tough to me I mean Mr Macintosh I do want to work on this issue but can you in good faith tell me that it is in the best interest of student athletes for volleyball players or Olympic athletes to travel across the country on a weekly basis does a national sports league in college athletics make any sense when it comes to student athlete welfare
▶ 1:13:50well Congressman thank you for your question um first I'd like to say I'm empathetic to your position on the breaking up of the Pack 12 I I think it was um it was a tragic situation uh in the in the landscape of College athletics I would say this to your question sir our athletes our student athletes already play a National schedule our student athletes travel all over the country whether they're in Revenue generating sports or or Olympic sports uh to play all over the country and to play the teams well I would disagree and when I talk
▶ 1:14:21to most taxpayers they think it is absurd that the volleyball team from Oregon or the University of Washington is traveling across the country uh to play schools like Maryland and in fact if you look at uh the frequent comments by coaches like the basketball coach at UCLA he's also talked about the strain this year that is putting on student athletes to travel across the country so I I think for the good at taxpayers I think for when we put the uh hopefully put the genie back in the bottle here we do need that to seriously look at student athlete welfare uh
▶ 1:14:51on this issue uh Mr Cooper you know in college athlet athletics football makes a ton of money there's a ton of money particularly in power five football uh there the current model tries to pay for everything else with that football money but in the era of unfettered free agency in the era of nil where there's no salary caps we have this uncontrolled arms race in football that allows uh coaches to make uh considerable sums of money uh but uh
▶ 1:15:21it is now the Olympic sports that have a lot of value that are at risk so in your model uh do how would athletes be treated if if they were treated with uh if if you were to be successful would uh shadur Sanders or someone that is a very high-profile athlete would he receive more uh in payments than a college wrestler or how do you envision how does your group Envision uh payments working if you would be successful yeah in a so as you emphasize these are highly subsidized
▶ 1:15:51public goods and that is an important fact to remember here and because they have not been operating under the antitrust laws they have been inefficiently allocating These funds um and they conceal how much money they're spending on their own salaries frankly um in terms of whether athletes should all be paid equally um I think most folks would agree that the funds generated by a sport should go to that Sport and how those decisions are made should not be made unilaterally by you know administrators and closed doors
▶ 1:16:21and they should be held accountable by taxpayers um to spend that money efficiently both in how they're compensating coaches and administrators but also how they're compensating athletes well if we were to do that I mean football's the one that makes all the money and if if if under that model then all the money stays with football players you know and it is it is the Olympic athletes that would continue uh to suffer so I think that you need to think through uh exactly what that would mean to how we save Olympic sports you know and I I would say you know just in closing uh
▶ 1:16:51I have uh uh five kids two of them participate in U in track and field two of them were all- Americans uh in junior Athletics and I would love them to be Runners someday at either West Point or or was State University and I just really believe that the current model is that it is too broken if this Congress does not do something to step forward to save Olympic sports that my kids your kids every kids are not going to have that opportunity because it's all going to be in football
▶ 1:17:22with the SEC and the Big 10 and ESPN and Fox Sports and a back a bunch of backro deals of TV execs instead of elected accountable uh officials who are responsible to the taxpayers so we got to sort this out this has to get fixed in this Congress and I showed up here with a lot of people talking about this issue but we really have to fix this and it can't be the typical Union non-union demonization schools NCA is evil I mean we really have to work on this issue issue and come to solution thank you gentleman yields
▶ 1:17:52back recognize the rank member for unanimous consent request thank you Mr chairman um this is from the Athens Banner Herald titled details on what University of Georgia is paying new track coach raises for tennis coach and hoop assistance without objection now recognize the gentle woman from Vermont thank you Mr chair uh college sports are unique in that they unite and they Inspire parts of our country that may not have a
▶ 1:18:22professional team and we saw that firsthand in Vermont as our Catamount electrified the entire State on the way to winning the division one 2024 men's soccer national championship go cats so college sports are exciting they Inspire us they also pose a dilemma particularly when we talk about BigTime football and basketball is it right that a multi-billion dollar industry does not pay its
▶ 1:18:53workers and I want to appreciate that you're all here today giving your valuable time I want to direct that question to Mr Cooper what's your perspective on that intense contradiction no it is fundamentally wrong that they do not pay their workers and so one of the things that I want to lift up right now Mr Cooper is that you're also somebody who has spoken in the past about the mental health impact on College athletes I just want to give you a a few minutes to talk
▶ 1:19:23about that it's something that's very important to me thank you and for me as well that's why I got into this when I was a student at Washington State University our quarterback Tyler hollinsky my classmate died by Suicide and it would that is what compelled me to work with his family to advocate for mental health and through that I was elected the sac president the student athlete advisory president at Washington State and the more I push for mental health policies at the school and in the conference the more push back I got and they refused to do anything
▶ 1:19:53or to listen to our concerns and the reality is this business is so lucrative that there is so much money being thrown at coaches they put that pressure on athletes and there is not you know the NCA has a rule that says you can only spend 20 hours a week on sport but a Pack 12 study found that athletes are working 50 hours a week and there's nothing stopping them from doing 60 70 there's no accountability in the system as a whole and so that is
▶ 1:20:24it's tied up in issue isn't it yeah from so from a mental health standpoint if you are working 50 hours a week 60 hours a week and you don't have and you also have to go to class um it create it it is ripe for abuse um and athletes mental health is suffering um and college athlet suicide rate has doubled over the last 20 years and that is largely in part due to the fact that there are no enforceable safety mandates in this business there are only guidelines
▶ 1:20:54and recommendations but when a coach actually Breaks the Rules there's no accountability whatsoever and there's no mechanism for athletes to hold them accountable I I really really appreciate what you've just said here because I think it's important for us to focus on who should we be looking out for we should be looking out for those those student athletes so thank you so much it does seem unfair to me and and many folks uh here in this Committee hearing that young athletes put their bodies and their minds on the line for Mass
▶ 1:21:25and yet they're not paid directly for their work now I've heard some some good discussion here today on what is in fact a pretty complex topic there's a lot to consider regarding nil deals um looking at NCAA antitrust uh exemption and whether we ought to consider these athletes as employees under under labor law and I know that it's important for us to ask who is best equipped to handle these complicated questions and I would argue that the
▶ 1:21:55experts at the agencies that Congress has empowered to handle employment issues and enforcement of antitrust laws are the ones best equipped so I'm talking about the National Labor Relations Board I'm talking about the Federal Trade Commission I'm talking about the Department of Justice and the courts have a role here too as we've heard we may have a settlement this year uh providing for the payment of college athletes now it would be great for Americans if we had these institutions ready to help us sort out these
▶ 1:22:25issues but we don't because we have an Administration right now who is partnering with Elon Musk to dismantle some of these agencies we should be talking about whether we owe College athletes uh additional compensation but we should also be talking about the agencies that the Trump Administration is illegally dismantling the ones that Congress has empowered to solve problems like college athlete compensation we don't have an independent board
▶ 1:22:56in charge of determining whether these athletes can collectively bargain why not because the president illegally fired a board member and the entire board is now deadlocked at the FTC we've seen antitrust division staff terminated and for some odd reason they're forced to move to the US Aid building and that agency is also deadlocked and in chaos because of this administration's actions I don't even have enough time because I see I'm running short here on the abuses happening at the department of Justice my point is this
▶ 1:23:26let's keep the main thing the main thing we have agencies that can help us to look at these complex issues and right now we are not funding those agencies to do their jobs and I yield back thank you gentlewoman yields back gentleman from Virginia is now recognized for five minutes I thank the chairman for holding this hearing thank our Witnesses for being here as well I want to Echo what the gentle lady said this is about the the student athletes and we need to keep that
▶ 1:23:56in mind first and foremost uh keeping in mind that they are student athletes and uh we should do no harm so that they do not um unintentionally uh through a government destruction of the the sports um industry become only students and don't have the opportunity to become student athletes um I was a student athlete at a very small school I swam div three because
▶ 1:24:26I wasn't fast enough to swim div 1 and uh and and it was a great program but um Mr Alberto if student athletes become employees which they are not now uh did one schools like James Madison University in my district other division 3 programs in Virginia Washington and Lee Bridgewater um they may struggle to afford salaries and benefits would this Force schools to cut sports like swimming
▶ 1:24:56or reduce participation thank you unquestionably I think we're already seeing some of those changes right now and some of the pressures in in programs dropping specifically cowply recently just dropped men's and women swimming uh it's a travesty um small schol school phenomenal academic environment to your point uh those opportunities are now gone so uh we we strongly um are very concerned about this modotto and the pressures that we put on Olympic sports
▶ 1:25:27specifically non-revenue sports do you think that schools in div 2 div three do you think they should be exempt from athlete employment rules if those are set up due to financial constraints or would that comp complicate the situation even worse well there are three three different divisions right and they have different uh different priorities in each one of those so I'm not sure how that would apply unit unit Fally um but certainly an important topic
▶ 1:25:58so many students in div three schools in my district and and across the country play sports as a passion rather than as a career path that was my goal as if College athletes are classified as employees could this discourage student participation at schools without major Financial backing 100% I think is's a very uh possibility so if there is some kind of tiered employment model where only Power for athletes are treated as employees again U you indicated
▶ 1:26:28that that might be a solution but um it might be just adding complicating factors to situation I I would agree with that and I think again back to ultimately the impact in in all sports non-revenue sports uh I think would be devastating if student athletes become employees would schools need to provide healthc care workers comp and retirement benefits comes with being an employee right and I think that's that's something that's really important and to a point
▶ 1:26:58earlier in terms of mental health support it's something that for us is really important at the University of Louisville we've invested seriously in that uh in that area with the tune of 10 professionals that now work with our programs and would smaller programs be able to afford this and would that potentially lead to program Cuts possible to think that way clearly uh Mr Macintosh um employee status could mean that scholarships and benefits are taxable income for athletes
▶ 1:27:29should Congress provide tax exemptions for scholarships if athletes are reclassified as employees thank you Congressman I think the idea of classifying student athletes as employees even at the autonomy 4 level is one that we need to be careful and examine closely at Wisconsin we have 23 Sports six of those Sports generate Revenue two of those Sports turn a profit it's those profits that fund the opportunity for everyone else
▶ 1:27:59uh to Grant an exemption for uh employees in an Olympic sports um I would just tell you that the detriment to those student athletes the uh tax consequence that they would face given the benefits that they already receive the guarantees that they are already benefiting from guaranteed scholarships uh will be put risk and could tax burdens discourage athletes from enrolling in certain states with higher income taxes I mean that could be a factor
▶ 1:28:29as well you look at States um I don't know about Wisconsin I don't know that they have how their tax rates are I know Vermont's are pretty high but uh Virginia too virginas are too high but uh what what would you say to that uh I think it's it should be a priority of ours uh to allow uh the academic and athletic reputation of our institutions uh stand Lo and be the what decides what helps a young person decide what school they're going to go to
▶ 1:28:59and I'm not sure that uh State byst State uh tax law or not the tax rates not tax rates I'm not sure that's where we want to compete I appreciate that yel back gentleman yields back now recognize the gentle I have a unanimous consent request gentlem woman is recognized I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record article from the wuke journal sensal titled the pressure on student athletes keeps mounting without objection gentleman from Illinois is now recognized for five minutes thank you uh chairman fitgerald
▶ 1:29:30and to the witnesses here today so we're here today to discuss whether the NCAA a nonprofit organization that makes over a billion dollars a year off of uncompensated college athlete labor Safe Harbor from antitrust laws in some way ways this is a complex and nuanced legal issue but for me it's a pretty simple
▶ 1:30:00question it's whether or not people have rights labor rights at that let me be clear I'm a strong supporter of College athletics but I'm also proud that Illinois enacted a law led by state representative cam Buckner and others allowing College a Lees to be paid for the use of their name image and likeness and it's
▶ 1:30:30because of my strong support for College athletics that I strongly oppose legislation that grants the NCAA an antitrust exemption and prohibits athletes from being recognized as employees let's talk about the facts the fact is that athletes are controlled by their institutions and many of of them spend more than 50 hours a week on their sport while in season the
▶ 1:31:01fact is that the entire College athlete system is designed to suppress the compensation and labor rights of players the fact is that NCAA is big business in the 2023 school year it earned $1.28 billion in revenue from the labor of players who receive none of that revenue and the fact is that coaches and athletic directors profit handsomely from
▶ 1:31:31this system in 2023 the highest paid state official in 43 States was a college coach and here in the room we have an athletic director that makes $1.45 million per year and oversees a program that spends nearly $200 million per year so I just don't buy the argument that there isn't enough money to pay athletes and I don't believe that Congress
▶ 1:32:01should forever prevent athletes from exercising their labor rights whether we like it or not we like the term or not let me ask you Mr Cooper uh if players cannot be recognized and employees what other avenues do they have to seek critical changes to the system that controls their lives their sport and their compensation none they would have to go through Congress or file
▶ 1:32:32lawsuits both of which are incredibly difficult processes and they wouldn't have any way to hold the NCA accountable in the same way they have no way now thank you and I want to quickly touch on an important Point here uh about our federal agencies College athletes are fighting right now for the right to be recognized as an employee under the National Labor Relations Act I strongly support their efforts but even if they win their fight they will have limited recourse to enforce
▶ 1:33:02their rights because of Donald Trump and Elon Musk and their efforts to gut the nlrb that's why I've spoken out against the illegal attempts to fire Gwen Wilcox who was reinstated in a blistering Court opinion last week and it's why I continue to fight against the dismantling of agencies that uphold critical rights like the Department of Education which enforces Title 9 as you have testified but let's be clear
▶ 1:33:32the reason why Republicans are doing this is because these agencies fight for workers and Republicans fight for billionaires I'll continue to fight real hard on behalf of all Americans not just the rich and powerful and uh Mr chairman before I yield back I ask unanimous thank you I have a unan uh the unanimous consent uh is request is to add the record uh
▶ 1:34:02uh a memorandum written by the nlrb general Council Jennifer abuel to all regional directors and officers in charge dated September 29 2021 titled statutory rights of players and academic institutions student athletes under the National Labor Relations Act which proves through the case at North Western University that college athletes meet must be considered employees under section 2C of the nlra and that leading
▶ 1:34:33them to believe that they do not have a statutory protections is a violation of section 881 of the Act without objection the gentleman's time has expired now recognize a gentleman from North Carolina thank you Mr chairman and thank all of you of the panel that are here I appreciate your testimonies uh I've had an opportunity to read through them as well as what you've shared today um I'll be brief um director McIntosh are you facing pressures internally to make
▶ 1:35:03your student athletes employees no sir my student athletes are not asking to become employees so so do you're so you're saying your student athletes don't want to be employees that is correct okay well I have serious concerns that classifying student athletes as employees would ruin college sports as we know it in fact if student athletes unionize it could alleviate antitrust scrutiny but more likely employee status would have the effect of increasing antitrust scrutiny among a host of other problems so
▶ 1:35:33Mr McIntosh as we consider ways for Congress to act to protect the relationship between student athlete and the universities what problems do you think might arise if we fail to act well Congressman I think um we're in a world right now an environment right now that that is not sustainable that is not stable and we need congress's help to create some stability so that we can ensure that the mission of College
▶ 1:36:03athletics first and foremost the education second broad-based opportunity and third the competitive Equity uh can be delivered upon uh I fear right now given the environment and the direction that we're going that we will not be able to do that in the future I fear that rules meant to create ability for College athletics uh are being challenged every day in the courts and this is an area in which we need your help and what might happen if some
▶ 1:36:33states or schools classified student athletes as employees While others did not what do you see in that scenario uh well Congressman I don't think that's a great scenario and I think um it raises issues of of uh competitive Equity uh and fairness that um are pretty dire thank you sir Mr chairman I'd like to yield the balance of my time to Mr Jordan I thank the gentleman for yielding uh Mr mckintosh the the other side the previous speaker uh
▶ 1:37:04talked about I think the term he used was uncompensated Labor of College athletics what's a full Grant n scholarship over five years what's what's what's that uh for for a college athlete in total sir um $125,000 room board books tuition tutoring everything they get is $1 125,000 a year year or no I'm sorry I thought you meant uh that was tuition sir just tuition yes when you add it all up books board the clothing they get the food they get the meal plan the tutors everything what's it over five years
▶ 1:37:34with most athletes R sh a year too five years what's that what's that total sir on on a per average base it's an investment of hundreds of thousands of dollars per athlete okay and now the house decision is going to say we got 20 million bucks coming to the university that you can then divy up with the athletes as well is that right on top of what you just described that is correct and then there's also for some athletes particularly some of the best football basketball players whatever they're going to get nil money from some business person who wants them to advertise at the car dealership or whatever so there's that revenue for the athlete that income for the athlete as well
▶ 1:38:04that's correct Market based nil and then we have at the big places the big universities the collective which is out raising money to also get athletes come typically football players I don't know what your Collective is I know at Ohio State it's a lot of money my guess is that the University of Wisconsin's a lot of money too that also gets given to the to certain is that right that is correct so it's far from uncompensated labor in fact they're getting maybe over a million doar couple million dollars maybe more I know I know in the sport
▶ 1:38:34of wrestling an All-American who goes to the portal and transfers somewhere they're getting two $300,000 in the sport of wrestling so the quarterback's got to be getting millions of dollars so this idea that there's uncompensated labor is just false what we want is a system where all these student athletes get an opportunity to continue to do what they do participate in sports not hurt our Olympic movement that's what we're trying to get I'm and again I'm not sure what the answer is but we're trying to figure it out that's that's absolutely correct chairman Jordan
▶ 1:39:05I think right now uh our student athletes have been benefiting from opportunities that exist outside of our ecosystem outside of our department we look forward to uh the pending settlement of the house case that will allow us for the first time to contribute directly revenues directly to our student athletes it's uh it's been a long time coming it's a long long overdue and we're we're embracing it we're excited about it all right I think the gentleman for y and yeld back to the chair gentleman
▶ 1:39:35Yi's back gentleman from uh Georgia is now recognized for five minutes thank you uh Mr chairman uh Mr Cooper um do you believe that Urban and Suburban athletes recruited to play football and basketball which are the net positive Revenue generating sports do you think it's fair that those players in those Sports subsidize the Olympic aspirations
▶ 1:40:06of um of those who are looking to um you know make it to the Olympics in archery the or or or rowing or fencing or water polo or you know beach volleyball or sailing and um and canoeing things that those Urban students and Suburban students who are playing football and and basketball
▶ 1:40:36they or their classmates in high school they I have no opportunity to do those but should they is it fair that they subsidize the Olympic aspirations of of the country set the predominantly black football and basketball players who generate the vast majority of the revenue um they should have rights worker rights and be entitled to a share of the revenue that they generate um and uh from an Olympic sports
▶ 1:41:06standpoint the Olympic sports could easily be subsidized by University endowments or through state and federal funding you know this country is one of the only we're one of the only countries in the world that does not federally fund Olympic sport development well you know gosh I'm I'm troubled here by the fact that uh the chairman of the committee talks about how you know $125,000 a year in
▶ 1:41:36scholarship and uh you know room and board and that kind of thing over five years uh you know and doing that for uh you know a number of athletes in football and in um in uh basketball um is a lot of money that the school is giving those players while at the same time we got a guy like uh Jimbo Fisher being paid
▶ 1:42:0877.5 million in a contract buyout when he lost his uh his coaching job can you explain to me how uh we could pay one man $ 77.5 million while for a contract buyout while at the same time uh you know really nickeling and diming those athletes upon whose labor
▶ 1:42:38that money is being paid out to the coach how can you justify that you can't and those same administrators um testify that there is not enough money to fund Olympic sports and uh if they were forced to follow the same laws as every other business in this country they would be forced to become more fiscally responsible than they currently are uh and spend less on their own salaries and you know uh more on worker athlet or
▶ 1:43:09college athlete uh compensation packages so the um NCAA is crying out for an Anti-Trust exemption telling us that forcing them to compete for Talent on a Level Playing Field would lead to the death of college sports I find that hard to believe that an organization earning $1.3 billion a year doesn't have enough money to go around and that's not even including the revenue these schools get from
▶ 1:43:39the football playoff and bowl games which are operated separately from the NCAA Mr uh uh what is the median salary for a head foot football coach at a division one school it's about $3.5 million is it plus bonuses is't that correct I won't disagree are you suggesting that the black men who
▶ 1:44:10are playing football and basketball are interested in supporting your lobbying efforts to stifle their economic opportunities in playing sports absolutely not Congressman in fact uh I think you and I are in agreement that it's time uh for those athletes uh specifically in college football and college basketball uh to benefit from the revenues that they're creating this the house
▶ 1:44:40settlement allows for that 22% of those revenues that would go then uh to support them the success from their Sports the profits from their sport you an antitrust exemption EXC why do you why do you need an exemption we need your help to ensure that those um those same athletes that I'm talking about those football players basketball players and the Olympic all those in Olympic sports uh one area where we need your help
▶ 1:45:10is so that they're not considered to be employees the gentleman's time has expired um Mr chairman I have an A unanimous consent request go ahead ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a report authored by Craig G gwi and others for the National Bureau of economic research titled who profits from amateurism rent sharing in modern college sports
▶ 1:45:41and it explains how money is generated by predominantly black lower income athletes and shifted into the benefit of predominantly white Olympic a athletes from higher income backgrounds without objection ranking member Rasin is now recognized for a UC request thank you Mr chair um this one is from the National Library of Medicine dated February 2017 on average two NCA football players die per season without objection
▶ 1:46:11gentleman from Kansas now recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chairman I yield to my colleague from South Carolina Mr pry gentleman's recognized thank you uh thank you gentleman for yielding um what's interesting to me in this whole debate is this is the disconnect from Washington DC with the rest of the world right that we're talking about a federalization on the other side of college athletes with commissions and rs and all this stuff uh that is the disconnect
▶ 1:46:41right when that you when you cross the pomac somehow uh these things crop up last week in the Energy and Commerce Committee we heard from student athletes and they resoundingly said we don't want the employee model we hear that on the other side that this is where we should go we hear from the coaches today uh who are very talented they don't want the employee model because it changes the face of a student athlete uh and so uh director Macintosh I'm going to you're on the hot seat for a little bit but I want to kind of walk through some of the the implications that if Congress were to adopt
▶ 1:47:12what others on the other side are saying in an employee model what does that do so first first of all they if they're employees you have an employeer employee relationship which presumably means that they could get fired if they're injured is that correct that is correct sir okay and and you also have additional taxes that the university would pay on their behalf the student athletes behalf is that correct that's correct course they were pay they would be paying taxes now as well on any Revenue that they receive right I think it's actually worse than that Congressman I think they would be ta
▶ 1:47:42taxed on Revenue that they received and taxed on benefits that they current currently receive in which they're not paying taxes on right so so uh mental uh Wellness coaches tutors room and board food swag that they get these will what all be taxable under under existing law is that correct potentially okay uh and and um what about what happens um in the in the event that an athlete is injured I think that's
▶ 1:48:13that's the problem uh one of the benefits that our student athletes have right now is they have guaranteed scholarships for four years even if they are injured um I live this myself as a employee in a Sports organization in the NFL as a player I was injured in the second year of my contract and I was terminated after the third year all right so how many how many student athletes are at the University of Wisconsin approximately 800 Serv so 800 so if you go to an employee model you have just
▶ 1:48:43hired 800 additional employees of the University correct theoretically what does that do to your budget uh it puts tremendous pressure on our budget um I'm trying to envision our HR department processing 800 uh posting 800 positions posting a position for a wide receiver on our football team uh it seems impractical sir right and so and and to be fair you might as the University of Wisconsin
▶ 1:49:14be able to absorb better than other schools correct so smaller schools would be really on The Chopping Block I think that is true I think we would have a better chance I think it would would be detrimental to programs at lower levels so if you if we go if we decided to go to an employee model which I think is a mistake you're now paying more money uh and what happens naturally uh when you've got to pay more money but there is a finite amount of money that you that you are budgeted every year you have to make Cuts elsewhere is that correct we would be forced to find the money through growing of revenues
▶ 1:49:44or cutting of expenses okay and cutting of expenses probably means cutting of sports correct uh we would take every step necessary to avoid that uh that would be the last resort but it is a reality that that could happen I think that would be a reality for many programs at lower levels and also what happens too we have this has not been discussed at all so if you're injured as a college athlete and you're considered an employee of the University when you're injured does that also trigger workers compensation laws within the state presumably what does that do to the state budgets that are impacted
▶ 1:50:14it's not good for them so I mean so basically all the schools including I mean we did a liability Safe Harbor Bill last year that was supported by big schools small schools historic black colleges uh student athlete organizations and entities um because they need that oxygen in which to come up with their own framework uh but if we go to this model that's the that's the rub is that when when somebody is injured Which injuries happen in college sports you're now blowing wide open a state budget from a workers compensation perspective because student athletes do get hurt they recover but they do get
▶ 1:50:44hurt is that correct that's correct sir I just think it's important that we remind ourselves this is not what our student athletes are asking for going to take it just briefly my last remaining seconds um the NCAA and other entities and I'm not going to apologize for prior actions of the NCAA but they can't even enforce the rules right now without being sued and I understand that y'all are I say collectively the the college sports are seeking a liability Safe Harbor uh that would kind of go along with any federal legislation how important is that
▶ 1:51:15uh liability Shield to help preserve College athletics in the future yes thank you Congressman I think it's extremely important I think it's important to distinguish we are not asking for a blanket Anti-Trust exemption we are looking for a limited Safe Harbor in areas in which we need to be allowed to make rules like around eligibility that can preserve the opportunity for future student athletes in the future I don't think we want 12 13 year college athletes
▶ 1:51:45and those are the types of rules right now that are being uh determined by the courts so like the basketball player that just gr was granted his e8th year of Eligibility right I mean I'm not going to call him out by name but I mean we're institutionalizing the van Wilders of college sports if we if we go down that model that's that's the risk that's out there right now all right thank you Mr chairman I yield back gentleman yields back that concludes today's hearing we thank our Witnesses for appearing before the committee today
▶ 1:52:15without UC do you have one yeah thanks Mr chairman um two quick UC requests um one about uh football concussions in the New York Times dated February 1 2021 without objection and this one is in an interview with Mr McIntosh on the trust uh website uh describing the health benefits he had by virtue of being in the NFL uh with the player association without objection all members will have five legislative dates to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or
▶ 1:52:46additional materials for the record without objection the hearing is adjourned was a quick hearing was
▶ 1:53:21now e