▶ 0:00:12Lexington's really cool because obvious now.
▶ 0:00:40But also, I would go back for
▶ 0:01:15everybody. Nothing like yesterday.
▶ 0:01:30His favorite The way he
▶ 0:02:34He's so smart. It was good.
▶ 0:03:22So I think
▶ 0:03:53Oh, he did. It was a good
▶ 0:04:45firstand his dadics. I think his dad
▶ 0:05:25Is your contractor? You never You never
▶ 0:05:57How are you? Good morning. Oh, wow. Well, you got me confessed. So, what Texas team are you cheering for in the big dance? Tech. Cuz nobody cheers for Tech. I thought I was I was kind of about half surprised how good they were. I thought they won that last game pretty handily. Who you root for? Who will you pick? Well, right now I picked Auburn.
▶ 0:06:33When they screwed over Boise State, I said, I don't care who wins. You know, do you have Boise State in your district? That's cool. I love I didn't realize that. I love Boise. Boise is one of my favorite overnights as a pilot. Southwest. I love it. How are you? Very well. How's all in West Virginia? I'm in Southwest Virginia. But you're right.
▶ 0:06:59I circle around the same over stimulated. Oh, so they put in Yeah. So I'm dilated. Yeah. Went out into the car. That's what it is. That's what it is.
▶ 0:07:28I don't know what kind of drops they Joe Biden ruins now. That's cool. That is what he has to do this year. You can tell he was a pilot. You can tell he was a pilot. You have to wear those. You've got to Oh my god.
▶ 0:08:05You have to let me see if I can find my opening statement. Okay. I apologize that I had a uh appointment this morning and they dilated everything else my eyes and so it'll take a while for those to go down. So it's no disrespect that I have my sunglasses on or his sunglasses. I just thought you were being cool. I thought I Now the world can see it how cool you are just like we see it. That's right.
▶ 0:08:34I'm gonna quit hiding myself. I'm gonna quit hiding myself under a basket, you Good morning and thank you all uh to my colleagues for joining us to provide their testimonies on this year's on this fiscal year's 2026 interior and environment bill. I look forward to hearing more about the projects and programs in the bill that are important uh that are important to each of your districts uh and to your communities across the country.
▶ 0:09:04Your input uh will be critical as we work to find uh a as we used to as we work to fund agencies under this subcommittee's jurisdiction including the Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, the US Forest Service and Indian Health Service and several others. We will work to accommodate these priorities as best we can as the fiscal year 2026 appropriations process moves forward.
▶ 0:09:28Thank you again to each of you uh my colleagues for being here today uh and have taken time out of your busy schedule to speak with us. We thank you for your uh for you bringing these issues to our attention. At this time I'd like to yield to ranking member Pingry for an opening statement. Uh thank you very much. Thank you much very much Mr. Chair looking extremely cool this morning. Uh I appreciate you're holding this hearing.
▶ 0:09:53I think it's a great opportunity for our members to let us know their priorities as we work through some of the challenging budget issues before us. I'm really pleased to see both of you uh and one who will join us soon and look forward to hearing your testimony. Thank you so Miss Keeper. You're up first. Welcome. How does that back to this committee seniority counselor something? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:10:15It's a pleasure uh to be with you uh and ranking member uh Pingri affording us uh this opportunity to testify before this really vital committee, the Interior Subcommittee today. And um I've served on this subcommittee in the past uh with both of you and have truly enjoyed working together to address the vital topics uh within this jurisdiction. And uh I've served long enough to see progress in my region and that is very heartening. Fresh water is life.
▶ 0:10:45I come before you today as co-chair of the House Great Lakes Task Force, a bipartisan group to support reasonable funding for a very important, successful, and popular program across our Great Lakes region entitled the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative, GLRI, for the largest body of freshwater on Earth. GRRI is lifegiving across the vast area that I represent and call home.
▶ 0:11:14Just cleaning up the Black River in Lraine, Ohio, took efforts beginning in the 1980s, early in my congressional career that were accelerated then by the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative and finally completed last year, the year of 2024. This success has yielded one of the best walleye fishing areas at the mouth where of the black river that flows into Lake Erie.
▶ 0:11:42And uh it is just so exciting to see life sprout up again. That says a lot uh as Lake Erie is the largest fishery in the entire Great Lakes. And already this spring, anglers with fishing poles decked out in waiters uh up to their shoulders are waist deep in cold water all across the lakes, but especially the Malami River that slices through our congressional district, the largest river that flows into the Great Lakes.
▶ 0:12:11And it is a river that needs our continued attention as it drains the largest watershed and also manure shed in the entire Great Lakes. We have work to do. GLRI's work to remediate the infractions of prior generations is essential. As House co-chair of the bipartisan Great Lakes Task Force and a senior member of our appropriations committee, funding the GLRI, is among my highest priorities.
▶ 0:12:40When I was a child, our immigrant grandmother whose name was Teophila, which translates into daughter of God, a hard-working farm girl from central Europe, uh, when the Bolsheviks were taking control of the open pasture land of the peasants, came to America and she would take me for walks later along the Mami River. She scooped up a handful of water. I can still remember dirty water. I was very young.
▶ 0:13:05showing it to me and saying, "Someday America will pay a great price for this disrespect of mother earth." How spot-on she was, and she had very little education. The GLRI Act of 2025 is bipartisan legislation that will reauthorize the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative for another five years through fiscal year 2031.
▶ 0:13:29The bill increases funding that benefits our communities and the more than 40 million people that draw their fresh water from our lakes. It is vital to maintaining and sustaining our communities for generations to come as populations grow and our nation approaches 350 million headed to 400 million. We cannot behave as though it is 1940 or even 1900. Vice President Vance hails from my home state of Ohio.
▶ 0:13:57He served as Senate co-chair of the um Great Lakes Task Force there and he was a sponsor of the GLRI Act. It is my sincere hope that his experience will help the new administration understand the importance of this funding.
▶ 0:14:12We hail from America's freshwater kingdom comprising 20% of the fresh water on I believe the president himself appreciates the incalculable value of fresh water for our nation and continent. GLRI seeks to restore the Great Lakes ecosystem.
▶ 0:14:32Doing so enhances the economic health of our region, but also improves public health as well as that of nature's critters like bald eagles and trumpet swans that choose our region as home. When I was first elected, there was just one pair of nesting bald eagles left on Lake Erie because of DDT. Today, after decades of effort, there are now nearly 100 pairs, and they even do tourism uh tours showing people where the nests are.
▶ 0:14:59Across our region, GLRI funds remove very, very toxic legacy pollution, including the residue from products like burillium uh to achieve freshwater quality and habitat restoration.
▶ 0:15:13It is critical in reducing the spread of harmful invasive species as well, such as preventing the destructive Asian carp that is moving up the Mississippi River as we meet today and seriously threatens our Great Lakes $7 billion fishery and our $16 billion boating industry. The GLRI also funds so much of the work to mitigate the harmful algo blooms occurring in our Great Lakes.
▶ 0:15:40In 2014, those horrid blooms got into the freshwater system of my hometown of Toledo and um the water was shut off. The city shut off the water for three days to customers in Ohio and Michigan. The crisis was surreal, but it remains in my mind as if it was yesterday. And it reminded us of mother nature's power over us.
▶ 0:16:04With the help of our bipartisan members of the Great Lakes Task Force, we've been able to protect and even slowly make improvements to our freshwater systems and all of the piping and everything that goes into it. But we are far from freshwater security. And I will tell you the when I look at the money, and this is no prejudice against west of the Mississippi River. I support all of that.
▶ 0:16:27But the legacy environmental debt plaguing all of our Great Lakes cities, whether it's Milwaukee, Wisconsin, whether it's Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, you go along the Great Lakes because of EPA mandates. We've provided a lot of indebtedness to our cities, but they don't get the amount of federal support that the West does. And um we actually have more people that draw water from our lakes than the Bureau of Reclamation provides for those that live west of the Mississippi. I want to help them too.
▶ 0:16:57But the environmental debt is very it plagues many of these manufacturing cities that of their uh industrial capacity outsourced to other nations. And um we have to pay greater attention to the environment. So please let me recall that GLRI was designed to be a supplemental program. Without solidbased funding at the Environmental Protection Agency, the GLRI cannot be affected.
▶ 0:17:21My hope is that the bipartisan House Appropriations Committee will work with the Trump administration to appropriately fund programs like GLRI. It surely creates jobs, recreational opportunities, economic development, and most importantly, preserves clean drinking water for the millions who depend on this precious, precious resource. Over 80% of Midwesterners support the GLRI, and it regularly passes the House and the Senate in overwhelmingly bipartisan fashion. one of the rare programs that do.
▶ 0:17:50Everyone can agree GLRI is just good common sense to protect our most important natural asset, freshwater, which is the basis of life itself. Thank you, Chairman Simpson and Ranking Member Pingry for allowing me to present this before you today and I yield back. Thank you. Uh do I understand you need to leave ASAP for something? Yeah. If you don't have to, that's then we'll go right ahead. Go right ahead. Representative Griff, if you all want to ask questions and let Miss Cap go.
▶ 0:18:20No, go ahead. Representative Griff, go ahead. Thank you very much. I do appreciate you, Mr. Chairman Simpson and ranking member Pingry for holding today's hearing and I appreciate the committee's willingness to provide me with an opportunity to draw attention once again to the abandoned mine land economic revitalization program or the Amler program. And I have to go through that because as you all know that it sometimes it often gets confused with historical abandoned mind program which is a completely different animal.
▶ 0:18:50This pilot program began several years ago at the behest and in all fairness at the genius of uh my neighbor on the Kentucky side of the line uh Hal Rogers. Um it it was a great program and then we we piggybacked on his brilliance. Um before it was created, of course, you had the old program, but under this program, the the big difference is not only do you clean up sites, but you can transition the site for an economic development reason.
▶ 0:19:20In a district that is 49th out of 435 in take-home pay, u it's a big deal. This has done more for the part of Appalachia that I represent in the coal fields of Southwest Virginia than any other program has done. Uh project intersection in Norton, which serves a number of counties uh down there is uh has created 345 jobs.
▶ 0:19:47They took down a high wall that would have taken a lot longer under the old program to get taken down. It been sitting there for years. Took down the high wall, created an industrial development park, got two people already in it. They got plenty of extra land. We have a site, a large site of several hundred acres where they completely cleaned up an old coal fines uh pit where they put the small little pieces of coal they couldn't use at the time. Cleaned that up, took down the old coal processing plant, and now there's several hundred acres.
▶ 0:20:15We haven't That one hadn't hit yet, as you know, with economic development industrial sites. That one hadn't hit yet, but it's prime. It has rail. It has electricity coming in from two different directions. Uh, I mean it's got everything already there because it was an industrial site to begin with and it wouldn't have happened if it had not been I mean even the U office of service mining came in and said it would have cost us a lot more money because it was a public private deal where we put in the the the public money and a private developer took all the stuff
▶ 0:20:46off was able to sell the coal uh that couldn't be used in the past but now there's technology to use it. It it's been a win-win. Uh there's also all kinds of tourism that we've been able to do. We've increased, you know, parking at the Devil's Bathtub. We've increased the ability to use some trails in Dickinson County, which is, if my district is economically challenged, Dickinson County is one of the most economically challenging counties out of the 28 jurisdictions I represent. And they created horse uh back riding trails.
▶ 0:21:15And you say, "What what does that have to do with coal mining?" Along the path they wanted to use were all kinds of mine portals, entrances to abandoned coal mines from the early part of the 20th century, able to close those off, make those safe that then made it available so that that people could get in there and actually ride the horseback uh ride horseback. So, it's it's been extremely important. Uh and you know, there's a lot more in my my written statements. Uh but that's what I want to get across.
▶ 0:21:43This has really been a a it doesn't cost that much money in the big scheme of things. Uh but it's been big. I will also raise this issue that that came up. It didn't we didn't start that this way, but it's been a problem. federal government has, and you all took care of it in last year's language, and I don't know whether it survived the CR or not, but one of the concerns is that the federal government suddenly decided that if the people who got the money didn't succeed for whatever reason,
▶ 0:22:13then the federal government would take title back to the land. I don't have a problem with a term of years. I don't. And I can give you a whole legal dissertation on on my theories on this. I would suggest seven. I don't have any problem with the federal government making sure that you know it's not some scam. I don't have a problem with that. But they wanted to make it in perpetuity. You can't get anybody to develop and one of my counties has specifically said we're not touching it.
▶ 0:22:40If the federal government is going to come back in if this project doesn't work the way we planned and they can come back in per in perpetuity, we're not going to do it. So I would suggest seven. I think there's good legal uh basis in in the altered common law adverse possession law to go as high as 15. Um that's been amended for about 200 years in Virginia uh to a 15-year Um and even that's acceptable.
▶ 0:23:10My counties have told me that they prefer the seven, but they could live with the 15 because then, you know, they too don't want a scam, but they don't want to have something that sits there and all of a sudden it becomes a permanent um problem because the federal government has taken title to it and doesn't know what to do with it. Local people are more likely to figure out what to do with it. So, I've raised that issue for you and happy to assist your team in any way I can on that that issue. Uh but those are the issues.
▶ 0:23:36But this is just a fabulous program that like I said, I wish I mean, I'm glad I brought it to Virginia. Uh, but I wish that I could claim that I had the genius to figure it out in the first place, but that belongs to Howal. And I yield back. Thank you. And I understand uh the third witness is not going to be uh attending today.
▶ 0:23:55So, uh, besides having the federal government take it over imperpetuating, uh, they can actually make it so that they can't so that they will get it in the long run if that's their their wish. They can make it so hard to develop that they know it's just not going to happen. And and while that's technically accurate, we've not seen signs that that's what they want to do.
▶ 0:24:22It's just that somebody decided that they needed to have the ability to come back in and have a basically a reversionary clause. Yeah. On the property in perpetuity and and because you don't have adverse possession against the federal government, there's no way for the county to ever use that land going forward and it just sits there. And the whole purpose of this program, of course, is to clean up the mess. Yep.
▶ 0:24:45but then to convert it so that it can be used for something that produces uh jobs or uh tax base for the local uh jurisdiction and u and helps folks out in in in one of the most economically stressed regions of the of the country. Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned the high walls that you took down. Yeah.
▶ 0:25:05They uh it's an issue in Idaho right now on the Fort Hall Indian Reservation where they had phosphate mining out there and uh now they're they've left in these pits with high walls and the tribes want them taken down. They should be uh I look at them and say, you know, give me a few sticks of dynamite. I'll take that high wall down, but I guess there's a better way to do it that uh requires more money and stuff.
▶ 0:25:30We're working with them on who has the responsibility, the mining company, what's the EPA and the and the uh Bureau of Land Management's issues on this and stuff. So, it's it's a challenge. It is a challenge. And in ours, it was a it was a high wall with a company that had gone u belly up. So, there was no corporate entity to look to. And it and it literally was a few feet off of the main highway. Oh, was that right? Oh, yeah.
▶ 0:25:56We had this I mean you you would drive into the town of Norton and there'd be this there was this cliff. They had to have fencing. The local government had to pay for fencing to keep people from going up there and accidentally falling off into the road. I mean it was I mean it was it was an eyesore and a dangerous element and it prevented development of this area up on top that was relatively flat. Smoothed that out. Now we have businesses going in. It's a huge success story for our region. Marcy, it's always good to hear from you.
▶ 0:26:26Uh, thank you. We uh have been able to take care of the Great Lakes initiative pretty pretty well for uh last year and through the CR and that kind of stuff and we'll continue to do that. I kind of have a little commitment with Joyce on that. So, and uh but that's important to us too. Uh you mentioned the Eagles. Yes. And that they're back now. Yes. They're beautiful. This is my trivial pursuit question for you or anyone.
▶ 0:26:56I read a book called Eagles Plume, which is kind of the history of eagles and stuff. Do you know what state has more bald eagles than any other eagle than any other state? Oh boy, that's a good question. I would guess it's in the That's what I would have thought being from Idaho. I say Virginia's making a run at it, but I don't know if we're there yet. To Texas. Come on.
▶ 0:27:18Everything's But everybody thinks Alaska because you see pictures of bald eagles in Alaska you see and I thought well then it must be Idaho or Montana or whatever you know Florida so they're they're fishermen that's kind of what I thought but eagles are fishermen and think of all the the streams and ponds and everything else they got to fish at down there. I I just found that interesting. So that's another feather I guess in Florida's cap, right?
▶ 0:27:47Yeah, the rest of us will complain about it. I wouldn't have guessed. Some some some of my staff members will try to convince me that SEC football is actual good football. And I'm, you know, may I share a story?
▶ 0:28:00Uh, one of my compelling memories of Secretary of Interior Haland during her service, she came out to the Great Lakes and I happened to be there and it was just about this time of year at spring when the ice was breaking up on the lake and everything and we went way deep into some of the wetlands that open onto Lake Erie and uh, as she was walking she knelt down and she took a piece of land and she kissed it because knowing the history you can understand the names Erie, Kyhoga, these various names.
▶ 0:28:30names that Ottawa that are in our region named as counties and so forth. And then I looked up and where the ice was just melting and and I looked out on the lake and I saw something I had never seen. I thought it was ballerinas and they were trumpeter swans. I had never seen trumpeter swans in the spring. Oh my goodness, they were so beautiful. And so the the beauty, the stark beauty of this country and what it took to settle Oh yeah.
▶ 0:28:58uh that region which was swamp. Uh what a credit to our forebears. So thank you for continuing in that tradition on this subcommittee. You bet. Mry. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you both for testifying. Um I uh I have the good fortune of living on a a title inlet and uh so I have eagles outside my home all the time and it's been really amazing to see the comeback of the eagles and to see them up close.
▶ 0:29:25But the best viewing of an eagle I ever had was in the chairman's office when you brought one in there. And it was kind of shocking and majestic at the same time to be that close cuz they're scary and they're really big. Paws are really Yeah. Yeah. And uh that's just changed my whole view when they fly over. I'm like, "Oh, I know what they look like close up." It's it's really quite amazing. Marcy, no one champions the Great Lakes or Representative Captor uh as well as you do, and thank you for doing that.
▶ 0:29:54Um it's really critically important and I hope we can continue uh to be very very supportive. Um being from New England, I support your bias that there's too much money that goes through the west and not enough to help particularly with the post-industrialization areas and the the burden that has been there over time, which is true of everything kind of east of the Mississippi.
▶ 0:30:14So, um, to the extent that I can be helpful, uh, I'm always happy to do that and, uh, with reauthorization here, but I also appreciate your remarking on the importance of having, um, consistent funding from the EPA, uh, for so many of the things that you do. And as we see the the cuts that have already been made, the cuts that are proposed, I think it's just very worrisome about how we'll maintain that fundamental base of doing the environmental cleanup work that we have to do and and supporting that agency.
▶ 0:30:40But thank you for being here to make all these extremely important points in the eloquent way that you always do. So appreciate your long service. Um and Representative Griffith Morgan, nice to see you. Uh, and uh, I appreciate also, um, I I have a vague memory of when Chairman Rogers was working on this program, but it really is, as you say, sort of a good combination of of doing the appropriate cleanup, but then allowing communities to see the economic development, which I think helps people uh, honestly have a better feeling
▶ 0:31:10about what the government does and uh, you know, recognizing that our communities need these economic opportunities. were the ones who lived with the other side of what went on over the years and if you've lost that industry you need it in particular.
▶ 0:31:23So I hope we can be helpful um to to you to continue with that um uh and I would also just say I feel like in this era of doge and cuts and a lot of activity that goes on sometimes without uh this committee even you know having a sense of what they're cutting before they cut it and how do we get it back. It's really important for every program to have a champion. It just really is.
▶ 0:31:48And obviously that means a lot to your state and there's some real value there and way we can keep track of all that is changing before our very eyes and what will be changed in this budget. So um I hope you'll just continue to keep us informed about it and we'll certainly try to keep our eye on it. But um I think it's it's really beneficial that you're there to do it. And uh what what is a high wall?
▶ 0:32:09is where they come in and they mine through here, but they've cut away part of the cliff and you you leave the remaining cliff where the mine where the mine used to be on the other side. So that you have just this literally a a rock wall cut straight in the Y straight up rock wall. And how do you I mean they're all straight up. Some of them are slanted a little bit, but they're too high to be safe. So how do you remediate it? You take it down.
▶ 0:32:39Oh, you level the peak there. Okay. Level it out. But it takes a lot of earth moving and a lot of it's not cheap. Great. Well, thank you. Really appreciate your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our our tribes in Idaho in the Fort Hall reservation where this these high walls are and there's several because they had several pits out there are afraid that in the winter there's a lot of snow machining that goes on out there and somebody's going to fly off one of those high walls and it'll be all over then. Anyway, uh it's a dangerous problem. Uh, Mr. Elseie.
▶ 0:33:09Thank you, Chairman Maverick. Um, Representative Captor, I I'm curious what uh can you tell me about the algolooms and what are they? What are the detrimental effects of it? And how does this program uh help with the problem? That's a really important question. And uh here's what one of our farmers said to me from Williams County.
▶ 0:33:32I was out there for a meeting and he said, "Congresswoman, let me ask you a question." I said, "Yes, sir." He said, "Uh, where did algo blooms come from? Why are they there?" I said, "Well, they're there because of dissolve reactive phosphorus." And um he said, "So, how are we going to solve the problem?" I said, "We can't seem to solve it very easily.
▶ 0:33:52I think we need uh monitors in the lake uh that are hooked up to a um main uh pole uh so we can uh get above the frequency of seven or eight whatever the number is uh to be able to detect where the dissolved reactive phosphorus is coming from uh over this vast region because we've not been able to really pinpoint it to where we can remediate as the rains flow across the land and it washes into the lake and so forth.
▶ 0:34:21So, uh, he goes, "So, let me ask you a question. 1990, we didn't have, uh, algo bloops." I said, "Well, I'm not remembering exactly, but I said, 'I guess you're right." And, um, he said, "Then what happened in 1995?" I said, "Um, did it warm up?" "Nope, didn't do that." He goes, "Glyphosate." And uh I said, "Oh," which is an ingredient in uh Roundup
▶ 0:34:52Ready. And uh we our region is a huge soy and corn bowl uh all across this area because it's so arable. And um he said, "And then it kept getting worse, didn't it?" And I said, "Oh my gosh." And he I I believe him to be correct, but we We even had NASA try to help us fly over.
▶ 0:35:16They put a big plane up in the air and using their detection devices to try to probe into the water to see where this was coming from above the lakes. Even NASA couldn't do it because their frequency was not above seven in the equipment that they put up in the air. So, we are still struggling to figure out where this is all coming from because it's the main ingredient in the um uh growth of toxic algolooms.
▶ 0:35:44And we have to figure out how to uh and that means dealing with fertilizers on the field and re uh or on the yard uh reconstituting those. Um I used to work for an agricultural firm back in Ohio and that's not as easy as it sounds but uh that's where we have to focus and it's like nobody can come up with the answer.
▶ 0:36:11Uh, and so what happens is like our water system that was shut off, the toxic algo blooms got in. They got in and um, now we've had to put all this money and trying to figure out how to filter it out. But that's not the only problem we have. We have problems with uh, quaga muscles and zebra muscles and all these things that came in through international shipping. I believe Chair Simpson understands what I'm talking about. And now those just encrust all of our water pipes.
▶ 0:36:39It's like, oh, now we got this problem and we So, both of those issues cause real problems in the freshwater delivery systems and they are antiquated. Um, so uh trying to reconstitute the fertilizers in some way. Uh, we can't control the rainfall and there's more of that. So there's more washing into the but through agriculture bills and we're working on this in the new agriculture bills.
▶ 0:37:05We can try to do more onfarmm capture and filter uh across the region but that won't be enough uh because of what is happening with the chemicals in the fertilizers. So is it seasonal or Uh based on based on runoff uh it's based on runoff and also the amount of rainfall. I was out at one hog farm and we've got to deal with the manure. I mean, that's another part of this where we're not using the manure for power and for fertilizer.
▶ 0:37:33We're letting it drain off and um we're not using it we're not dealing with the watershed in a modern way. We're farming like it's 19 I don't know, pick your number 40, 1930, whatever it is. And all across our country, we have to deal with this because of increasing population.
▶ 0:37:51So for us where we've got this freshwater threat, uh we really need to have the best scientists that there are at USDA and elsewhere to help us reconstitute fertilizers and uh we have to have the hardware to provide clean water to people and modernize those systems. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Uh Representative Griffith, um the how do you seal up these m uh two questions. How do you seal up the minds?
▶ 0:38:20And uh the 7 versus 15 all those both those numbers seem very arbitrary. So what what is the what is the scientific delineation for why it's seven versus 15? Remind me to go to the first question. I'm going to answer the last question first. Um the seven is is totally arbitrary. I picked it out because I kind of like it. The 15.
▶ 0:38:42So at common law you could get adverse possession which means if nobody's using the land in a manner which is uh conducive and it's it's more complicated than that but basically there was a common law principle that if nobody's using the land and somebody steps into the land and starts using it after 20 years in the common law uh coming over from England the land then be became the property of whoever was using it for a a valid purpose.
▶ 0:39:06uh you had to have color of title and there's there's all kinds of other legal issues, but that's that's your big one is somebody's actually using it for a a bonafideed purpose and nobody has come in and said, "Wait a minute, that's my land." Uh that was changed for purposes of uh actual ownership in Virginia. And again, I'd have to go do the research, but about 200 years ago, I might be off by 50 years plus or minus to 15 years because they felt like 15 years was sufficient time.
▶ 0:39:35If somebody wanted to if somebody said, "Wait a minute, that's my land you're farming on or my land that you're doing something on, you could come in." That's where I got the 15 from. It's based on the the updated Virginia version of the common law at 15 years. Um, I I know that may not apply to most states, but all of your uh states that are currently in the Amler program are states that originally derived their laws from the common law. Uh, and so that's why I picked that. So, the 15 is less arbitrary.
▶ 0:40:06The seven means that the local governments have a better ability to keep track of it and and they obviously would prefer the shorter period, but I put the 15 in my statement because I can I can actually justify that one from a legal So, is five better? Is three better?
▶ 0:40:21Well, I I would submit that, and this is just my gut, that that three or five might be too little when you're dealing with the title to real estate and the ability to improve real estate that that you want to if somebody's pulling trying to pull a scam on the local government and the federal government, three to five might not tell it. I think seven probably does tell it. That's again that's that's a Morgan gut issue as opposed to having any scientific or or historical basis.
▶ 0:40:48The 15 is historical basis but I think once you get above most of the folks who are in don't play those games that long. Okay. And that that's just where I came up with that. Now the first question I forgotten I know sealing up the minds. Oh, it depends on the entrance that you get to, and I'm not an expert on this, but basically, you put uh you put a fairly significant uh fencing in front of it that that prevents anybody from going in.
▶ 0:41:16Uh that does not seal up and you don't want to seal up the air flow. So, you've got to have a little bit of air flow because a lot of the mines, not all of them, every mountain is a little bit different, every mine's a little bit different. A lot of my mines are are bleeding methane. uh which is interesting because we now have a company uh CNX. It's a subsidiary or it's a it's a division of CNX uh has developed where they actually are they actually are taking the methane out of a working mine in my district. Y uh it's great new technology.
▶ 0:41:43I'm trying to I've been trying to entice them to apply foration for yeah and and trying to get them to grab that methane out of I want them to do a pilot project with Amler money. They haven't yet come to that because they're getting out of working mines. they're able to get a sufficient amount to to make some money off of. But once you open up a mine, if it's a mine in the side of a mountain that has a lot of methane, it's going to continue to leak for 100, 200, 300 years after that.
▶ 0:42:13And so you don't want to trap that inside of a mine where it can become an explosion or explosive uh potential. So, you've got to leave the portal air free um so that the air can so the methane can get out, but you seal it off so no human can get in even even if they're really working at it. I mean, I guess if they brought a bulldozer up there could still get in, but so that nobody wanders in, particularly kids uh who think, "Oh, this is really cool.
▶ 0:42:39Let's go in this cave." And um and they're just all of them have some dangers to them. So, we want to prevent that. So what we do is we go in, we seal those off and then you can uh have land that you can use that's adjacent to it for other purposes. Yeah, they're doing that a lot of that thermal thermal capture from like in the Perian Basin from uh burnoff and then capturing that that heat and uh seems like that that would be a great power generation capability. All right. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
▶ 0:43:09Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May I just clarify one answer to Congressman Elie if I could? It won't take long. Uh, I wanted to mention because I know Florida has a lot of algo blooms, too. Um, and, uh, for us it's progressive. They don't go away in the wintertime. They're like sheets of green. They just float and then it goes down, down, down. I represent one of the two shallowest lakes in the Great Lakes. And my worry is someday it'll turn into a swamp if we're not careful what we're doing.
▶ 0:43:38Uh, the land we live on is a drain swamp uh because the farmers that preceded us. So, uh, it is successive and it is troubling. And now that the lakes aren't freezing over, that's a whole another issue that deals with evaporation and all this that I won't get into, but it it just sort of they settle at the bottom and then they get churned up with the winds and everything uh, and nature. And so they're destructive a destructive presence uh, in the lake.
▶ 0:44:06Um, the other thing I wanted to mention on manure perhaps people will be listening to this. We need a solution for large animal operations. I have one dairy that is 25,000 head and they use the manure for power and I assume they pelletize it too for fertilizer. But most of our uh uh animal uh production sites either store it on site but in not a very good way. We got a new farm bill coming up and I'm going to have to exit also to go to a farm bill meeting.
▶ 0:44:37Uh but we must find a better solution for these vast amounts of manure. We are talking just from our little area hundreds of train loads a year. Uh the equivalent of that from Toledo to Chicago let's say of just manure. It is so much and I keep saying why haven't we had a solution to this in this country? What is wrong with our ability to cross specialties and get an answer? The farmers can't haul it because it's too heavy.
▶ 0:45:05So then that means that in California, what they've done where they farm, they put like gas lines in between farms. We can't do that where we come from unless we have like a Bureau of Reclamation or something out in our part of the country. But we've got to be able to capture this and reuse it to pelletize it. The farmers can't haul it because it makes it too expensive per mile. And I'm saying this is just, you know, here we've got sewage treatment plants and all this stuff, but we can't figure this out for agriculture. And it is it is really needed, believe me.
▶ 0:45:34Marcy, you're in my turf now and I am a big proponent of biodigtor and happy to sort of get uh with you and talk a little bit more about some of the biodigesttors that we have in this country and the expansion that's going on. We have a great one that's about to open in our state that provides natural gas uh turns things into natural gas and then they use the dried component for fertilizer. There's been some resistance to it, but I think there are huge opportunities. Some of them are for individual farms and some of them are collective where the farmers truck but not too far. or you know something in their region.
▶ 0:46:02So I I'll fill you in on some of the legislation or opportunities around that. I appreciate that. Congressman, we can we can uh fight this one and I get approached. Our farmers hate the methane digesttors that they have bought. They kick them. When I go into their sheds, they they're so mad because they break down when the heat gets too hot inside. I said, "You mean to tell me we can land a man on the moon and we can't figure out how to deal with the heat inside these machines?" Uh so yeah, I'd love to hear more about that. Maybe the scale. Maybe it's a scale issue. Anyway, it's a great opportunity really.
▶ 0:46:30I think Thank Thank you both for coming and uh talking with us about uh your priorities in this bill and we look forward to working with you to see that we can in in uh include them depending on whatever the requests and the budget and all that looks for. It's going to be kind of challenging but uh but we look forward to working with you on these issues. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Pingry. Committee's adjourned.
▶ 0:47:01It's a lot of stuff.