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▶ 0:04:51uh in today's hearing we will examine opportunities for the use of Innovative Technologies in military construction the first I want to take a moment to welcome new sub subcommittee members for the majority I'd like to welcome representative Alford from Mr Minnesota Missouri I'm sorry who will be serving as Vice chair
▶ 0:05:21and representative Loda from New York joining the sub commmittee for the minority from my great state of Texas is escore welcome and uh from California Levan this subcommittee serves the people who serve our nation and provides vital Investments for the members of our armed services their
▶ 0:05:51families and Veterans we have a long history of bipartisanship on this subcommittee and I'm committed to maintaining that tradition in this Congress I urge all of my members of this subcommittee to keep this in mind today and in all committee hearings in the future we're here today to examine the potential use of Innovative Technologies
▶ 0:06:22for military construction while current military construction possesses and produces high quality infrastructure the construction timelines for projects may be lengthy and May and many believe that the dod pays too much for what it buys one study found that military construction cost premium was as
▶ 0:06:52much as 35% for some types of of facility given today's fiscal challenges we must find efficiencies that reduce construction timelines and cost if we harness the power of new technologies such as 3day 3D printing we can deliver high quality infrastructure for war
▶ 0:07:22war Fighters and their families and be better stewards of Texas of taxpayers money joining us today is is four Witnesses Mr Dave Mara director of military programs for the US Army Corps Engineers Mr Keith Keith Hamilton chief engineer Naval facilities and
▶ 0:07:52Engineering command Mr Thomas Healey chief executive off offer officer for hon Incorporated and Mr Bren Richardson principal research Sciences of energy and infrastructure environment for CNA as a reminder to members today's panel is here to discuss urging
▶ 0:08:23and emerging construction methods their facilities feasibility cost Effectiveness and durability ask you to refrain from discussions not Germain to the reasons we're here and now I'd like to recognize Miss wman Schulz for her open he remarks pardon my voice to be going south to
▶ 0:08:53Texas uh thank the gentleman for yielding thank you judge Carter uh Welcome to our uh sub comm's new members and to our Witnesses I look forward to another year of working together to invest in quality services and benefits for our veterans ensure our military Readiness and improve the quality of life for our service members and their families and I appreciate the interest my friend judge Carter has in this important topic and I look forward to a productive conversation about the ways in which this subcommittee can help bring Innovation into military construction before I address this H topic however I want to take us
▶ 0:09:23back to the last fiscal Year's hearings where I along with other Democratic members of this subcommittee shared our concerns with reported proposals for 22% cuts to funding levels at that time there was a bipartisan consensus that cuts to the vital programs funded in this subcommittee should not happen yet now a couple of months into the Trump Administration we are seeing cuts under a different name implementing the illegal Playbook of project 2025 under the guise of quote waste Fraud and Abuse the administration is planning to cut 880,000 VA jobs
▶ 0:09:54and is cancelling nearly 600 contracts endangering veterans access to timely and sufficient care and benefits beyond the VA the administration is firing veterans in numerous agencies across the country and cutting other programs that veterans rely on like Snap and Medicaid I refuse to let veterans and the Direct Services we Pro provide to them be defined as quote government waste that is utterly appalling and a complete betrayal of the men and women who have put their lives on the line in service to our country veterans and people who care for them are not government waste
▶ 0:10:24these cuts and firings are causing immediate impacts on Veterans like Ben who was recently ly interviewed by the publication task and purpose Ben is a disabled veteran who had a positive job performance review while working at the Department of Agriculture where he he helped other veterans with grants to fix health and safety hazards in their homes yet Ben was inexplicably fired in the careless cruel approach president Trump and Elon Musk have taken to cut jobs across the federal government meanwhile internationally our allies are left scrambling as secretary heith Focus his attention on
▶ 0:10:55Fox News culture War priorities rather than deterring Russia and our competitors abroad the secretary spent his first days Banning books in DOD schools restoring base names that honor Confederate soldiers and banning qualified individuals who are serving honorably from serving in our military just because of their gender identity if the goal here today is to promote Innovative forms of military construction and improve the Readiness of our Armed Forces I would argue that indiscriminately firing 5,400 DOD employees is the wrong move improving our
▶ 0:11:25military installations resiliency against extreme weather should be a priority not firing generals for political grievances investing in construction methods that could speed the delivery of housing for our service members should be a priority not spending nearly $50,000 of taxpayers money to paint the secretary's government furnished house and pretending it's an emergency reducing the cost of our military construction projects should be a priority not threatening tariffs on our allies which we know will only cause steel and Timber prices to Skyrocket I'm hopeful that we will have a
▶ 0:11:55fruitful conversation on the ways we can reduce barriers to Alternative construction methods and drive innovation in military construction the length and expense of the military construction process as my friend judge Carter mentioned is a challenge and it impacts the number of projects which can be funded in any given year this problem only grows more acute as the services are increasingly building an expensive remote areas like Guam I hope the ideas we discuss here today can be a part of the solution to these increasing costs and to the costs over the full life cycle of our military facilities
▶ 0:12:25moreover we know the devastating impact natural disasters had on milit AR basis in recent years from hurricane damage in my home state at Tindle Air Force Base and mcdill Air Force Base After Helen and Milton to the devastation on Guam from typhoon moir we cannot bury our heads in the sand and ignore the climate threat to our military installations as well investments in resiliency now will save us billions of dollars in recovery later on some alternative building materials like Mass Timber represent a possible solution to making installations more resilient to extreme weather events
▶ 0:12:56while also R reducing the services carbon foot print and contribution to the climate change problem when it comes to mass Timber Products Details Matter for Mass Timber to truly be a part of a climate solution it must be sourced in a sustainable way when this does occur Mass Timber Products provide a benefit of carbon storage as well as reduced carbon admissions compared to traditional materials like concrete and steel but I have concerns with how this Administration has already been stewarding our land and resources recklessly clear cutting forests cutting down
▶ 0:13:26old growth trees or ignoring the endangered speci Species Act and other environmental laws is shortsighted and dangerous and will not Advance our goals that we have here in this committee I'd like to thank the four Witnesses for being here today and for their expert testimony and I yield back okay well now turn to our Witnesses today uh without objection your entire uh written testimony we will will be included in the
▶ 0:13:56record I will now recognize each of you for an opening statement and we will then proceed with questions Mr Morrow chairman Carter ranking member waserman Schultz and distinguished members of the Comm subcommittee thank you for this opportunity to discuss the US Army Corps of Engineers efforts to research and utilize Innovative Technologies techniques and materials in military construction projects over the last two and a half centuries US Army Engineers have evolved to provide
▶ 0:14:27engineering expertise to the Army and to respond to the nation's toughest engineering challenges the usace mission includes Civil Works military programs research and development and Disaster Response today I want to focus on our military programs and research and development missions we support our combatant commanders in 110 countries around the globe through military and international Services programs we support 3 million active duty military veterans civilians and their
▶ 0:14:57families you say relies heavily on the Private Industry to deliver Innovative Technologies and techniques in military construction the unified facilities criteria or UFC are developed through a tri Service Coordination that sets basic technical requirements that must be followed to deliver a code compliant complete and usable military facility any Innovative design solution that meets the UFC and Mission requirements is acceptable and usace encourages design and construction solutions
▶ 0:15:28from our industry partners that meet these requirements our research and development Mission vested in our engineering research and development center Eric is to discover develop and deliver trusted engineering and scientific solutions for the warf fighter and the nation Eric provides engineering technology leadership necessary for Force protection Force projection sustainment and Civil Works missions the usace organizational structure supports delivery and Innovation through 44
▶ 0:15:58districts at execute construction projects for the local regions usace has regular engagements with the other military services which Fosters Innovation through information sharing and common training opportunities this allows usace to benefit from the experience of a diverse project execution and leverage those lessons in military construction so one technology that can be used for expeditionary conus or milcon applications is additive construction or construction
▶ 0:16:283D printing additive construction has potential to reduce costs Manpower Logistics and time while opening the door for improved and new applications such as unconventional counter measures Eric has taken a leading role in acceleration of Technology transition with the private sector this includes development of UFC language to allow additive Construction in 80% of the United States and in regions where seismic activity is not an issue this
▶ 0:16:58is still a developing technology pilot projects at locations such as Fort Bliss Camp McGregor and Tindle Air Force Base have led to increased confidence in additive construction and Military structures to expand this technology for higher risk areas a Consolidated testing effort needs to be completed Eric is currently conducting research and field demonstration projects on Innovative cement Solutions utilizing non-traditional chemistries advantages of these products can include rapid
▶ 0:17:29set hardening times supply chain advantages and activated chemical solutions for protection against specific threats synthetic polymer materials called geosynthetics are being designed and manufactured to solve civil engineering problems including separation filtration drainage reinforcement and containment usace has supported testing and evaluation of mass Timber materials we recently designed the Army's first Barracks made primarily with mass Timber structural elements and are
▶ 0:17:59soliciting interest in construction of a project at Mountain Home Air Force Base calling for the incorporations of mass Timber design utilizing Mass timber in these projects May reduce timelines fiber reinforced polymer composits are under investigation to meet military interest in corrosion resistance low maintenance critical infrastructure in an increasingly complex Global Security environment our commitment to innovation in military construction is not just about building structures
▶ 0:18:29it's about building the resilience and Readiness our forces need to Prevail by working with industry to leverage these advancements we can deliver more durable sustainable and costeffective infrastructure for our military ensuring taxpayer dollars are used efficiently while equipping our troops with the best facilities in the world thank you for your time today and I look forward to your questions thank you now we turn to Mr
▶ 0:19:01thank you chairman Carter ranking member waserman Schultz distinguished members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to testify on how Naval facilities engineering command or nafac is leveraging innovative construction techniques and Technologies in military construction nafac has a worldwide team of dedicated engineers and Architects planners project managers Contracting officers and other professionals who design maintain acquire and construct facil facilities and infrastructure to support our war
▶ 0:19:31Fighters at home and abroad we are continuously collaborating with industry to identify and Implement new Innovative infrastructure Solutions and to apply industry best practices that help make our us War Fighters more lethal adaptable effective and resilient nafac is actively testing and employing Innovative Technologies materials and methods for design and construction today and we are leaning forward to increased collaboration with IND indry Academia and other government
▶ 0:20:01Partners to identify and leverage future opportunities I'll provide a few examples we realize that we must think act and operate differently in order to meet the many time critical Fleet and Marine Corps missions and requirements that we face today this includes the employment of new and innovative solutions to reduce the cost and increase the speed of infrastructure project delivery to address this issue headon we've developed an acceleration and affordability campaign plan and as a part of implementing that plan and in coordination with our Navy
▶ 0:20:31installations command we've issued guidance that at the start of every new military construction project NAFA planners and Engineers are required to evaluate whether the project can use alternative construction methods to meet the war war fighting Mission requirements while driving lower costs and accelerating the project delivery for many of our projects under construction today nafac uses some form of industrialized or modularized Construction uh to prefabricate facility components at off-site
▶ 0:21:02uh private fabrication yards we see tremendous benefits in this uh technique and and we see it as an opportunity to employ this approach we're working to expand its use and to be able to leverage it for far greater economies of scale we think this scale can be achieved by using industrialized construction for facilities where we have standard designs and uh repeatable modules that can be grouped in programming and acquisition then constructed at the off-site fabrication
▶ 0:21:32plants and brought to the project site for final assembly in fact we're using the other transactional authority that Congress provided in ten USC section 4022 to Pilot development of an industrialized construction project that will build a Child Development Center in Little Creek Virginia we then hope to scale that a pilot approach to a number of Child Development Centers that will be constructed in the Mid-Atlantic and South West regions in the next few years nafac is closely
▶ 0:22:02following and is keenly interested in applying additive construction methods are 3D printing uh we've seen tremendous advances in the technology and we see continually improving capabilities and costs that are achieved through these methods nafac is also piloting the use of new and improved materials for use in military construction projects we're constructing a Navy Child Development Center in Hampton Roads Virginia that uses cross laminated Timber at Marine Corps Station Cherry Point we are piloting the use of high performance concretes in a major
▶ 0:22:32new F-35 hanger and aircraft sustainment Center nafac is working to expand our use of various types of composite fiber reinforced polymers particularly for retrofitting and strengthening existing structures nafac is working to identify and develop near-term and long-term applications exploiting the power of artificial intelligence or AI we are partnering with the national renewable energy lab and National Institutes of building Sciences to identify use cases where AI can be employed in the planning design
▶ 0:23:03and construction to increase efficiency reduce costs and accelerate project delivery we're also exploring potential efficiency tools with several leading AI companies including early capabilities and generative AI for planning and design finally in uh addition to using the section 4022 other transactional authority which has shown real value in identifying and leveraging Industry innovation nafac is exploring the use of alternative delivery methods such as Progressive
▶ 0:23:33design build lean design build and construction manager at risk these approaches are being used in the private sector to encourage Innovation speed project delivery and reduce cost however we're finding that this that there may be statutory or regulatory changes that are needed for us to fully leverage these approaches thank you for the opportunity to testify today I'm proud to be a part of an organization that that continuously pushes engineering boundaries to provide affordable infrastructure for the
▶ 0:24:03dod that helps to ensure The lethality resiliency safety and War fighting effectiveness of our military forces I look forward to your questions thank you Mr Healey chairman Carter ranking member werman Schultz and distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for having me here today I'd like to start off with a question what if our military could produce electricity through a mobile generator
▶ 0:24:33that provided better electricity than even the US grid well I'm here today to introduce a new Superior power generation technology one that's reliable efficient fuel flexible and mobile I founded hon out of my dorm room at Carnegie melon and it's been an American startup story we took the company public on the New York Stock Exchange in 2020 we raised over 700 million of capital and we've begun delivering our Carno modular power plant which we believe
▶ 0:25:04will fundamentally change how electricity is produced if there are three key things to remember about what we're doing it's first that it's one solution that can be used across all applications second is it offers fuel flexibility reliability and the performance the military needs and the third is it's manufactured through 3D printing which enables us to make it here in the US so let's go back to that first point about one solution
▶ 0:25:34across all applications what if military vessels autonomous vessels what if bases what if vehicles uh could all use the same power generation solution leveraging the same parts and the same service across all applications the Carno generator is designed to be scalable as well starting with a 200 kilowatt base unit that then can be stacked together to deliver multi megawatts for military bases that base unit just for
▶ 0:26:04reference is about the size of a bed of a pickup truck so it's compact this vision is already becoming a reality we actually just delivered our first unit to the Navy and they're going to not only be testing it for autonomous vessels but they're also going to be testing it for stationary applications the second point I made was why Carno so this is a fuel agnostic solution it can operate on over 20 different fuels including diesel Natural Gas Propane
▶ 0:26:35jp8 so imagine if our troops are deployed somewhere in the world where it's kind of unsure of what fuel they're going to have available to them and it's unsure if that fuel is even contaminated our technology eliminates those concerns because now the system you start feeding a fuel and it will sense what fuel it's receiving adjust accordingly and deliver electricity now reliability is also key so this system is designed with only one moving part and even that part Glides on
▶ 0:27:05gas bearings it's it's similar to like an air hockey table so that eliminates the need for oils eliminates maintenance or substantial maintenance and eliminates lubricants so as you think about like autonomous vessels where there isn't anyone on board to actually maintain the engines reliability is critical additionally we want to look at efficiency so the Carno generator when you compare to the grid the grid is about 36% efficient so you know your Standard wall outlet
▶ 0:27:36the Carno generator will be able to deliver efficiencies up to 50% that means we're going to use less fuel to make the same amount of power now it does all these things while also having a very low noise profile it's similar noise level it's like an air conditioning unit and it also has a low heat profile meaning the system is less detectable any one of these advantages alone could convince you to move away from diesel generators but we've been able to package all this into one solution
▶ 0:28:07our generator so the question comes up of like well why hasn't this been done before and that brings me to my third key point which is 3D printing so if you go back 200 years ago there were steam engines there were diesel engines there was this thing called A Sterling and Engineers always knew that Sterlings could be or would be the most efficient way of making power but you could never manufacture a sterling fast forward to today
▶ 0:28:38thanks to advancements in 3D printing we're able to make Parts like this one here that are extremely complex allow us to unlock efficiencies that now make Sterlings a reality or as we like to call it the generator so I think this is going to be around so I want to be transparent with where we are in this process as I shared we just delivered our first unit to the Navy and we have other early adopter customer units planned through the middle of this year we believe the system
▶ 0:29:08will deliver everything I've shared today but we are still in the final stages of development we're testing the system and continuing to refine it so as we go forward we'd like to expand our relationship with the military especially as we start scaling we've already set up manufacturing both near Austin Texas as well as in Ohio Austin and uh and so that is going to ensure that this is domestically produced chairman Carter ranking
▶ 0:29:38member werman Schultz and distinguished members of the committee our military has been known for having the best technology and we need to make sure that remains true for power generation as well with Hon's Caro power plant we're delivering the three key things that are important it's one solution that can be used across all applications it offers fuel flexibility and reliability as well as it's made here in the US thanks to 3D printing
▶ 0:30:10you thank you Mr Richardson chairman Carter ranking member werman Schultz distinguished members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to testify on Innovative military construction techniques cna's Center for Naval analysis provides our Sailors I'm Marines and the broader National Security Community with objective analytics to improve The lethality and effectiveness of The Joint Force our sole mission is to support the decision-making of military leadership
▶ 0:30:40the study we conducted for Deputy assistant secretary of defense for infrastructure modernization and resilience included the identification of barriers to Innovative construction techniques in milcon this study was important because the results showed that a forcing function to use such techniques should be developed there are several options to bridge the gap between industry and DOD efforts to adopt Innovative construction techniques first a DOD technology roadmap for milcon
▶ 0:31:11would provide necessary guidance for both dood and service component labs to make informed and targeted Investments toward Innovation such a road map would establish during enduring capability needs and measured focused areas for identified mil milcon outcomes one specific use case for example is to leverage artificial intelligence technology to provide a scalable faster and reliable aid for design and construction management efforts a published
▶ 0:31:41milcon technology road map would also provide a demand to uh demand signal to Industry to drive development of specific Technologies potentially leading to private sector investment this could also Foster the subsequent development of Industry standards and best practices thereby advancing the further adoption of innovative techniques a second recommendation is to adhere to a collaborative front-loaded design process this would entail the inclusion of construction
▶ 0:32:12contractors early in the design process for the purposes of leveraging additional Innovative construction knowledge and experience that is newly emerging in the private sector industry experience shared by a construction contractor during the design phase of a project can provide valuable benefits to the government including the identification of regionally available Innovative Innovative techniques Technologies and the supporting Workforce construction contractors with regionally specific expertise
▶ 0:32:42can also serve as a resource and the identification of potential construction challenges in the design phase this allows the designer of record to minimize construction risks and facilitate the most efficient construction means and methods napac facilities Engineering Systems command has undergone such efforts and recently published a guide for early contractor involvement in the design phase of projects lastly while our analysis highlighted existing DOD efforts toward the inclusion of
▶ 0:33:12Innovative Technologies in milcon such as additive manufacturing and mass Timber without a technology road map in place and Industry engaged in the design phase DOD investment in such Technologies is not prioritized in private sector interests is not encouraged thank you for the opportunity to speak today I look forward to your questions well thank you very much and I'll start out with the
▶ 0:33:44Army Mr tomorrow these new technologies like 3D printing and add adictive manufacturing hold a promise where is the core stand on the actual use of these and what research do you have on their reliability and strength and both cold and hot weather thank you thank you Congressman for that question
▶ 0:34:15so currently the the UFC's allow additive construction or 3D printed Construction in seismic zones a and in seismic zones B with a shake table test to demonstrate that the means and methods for that um are are structurally sound so in those areas we're completely supportive um to go into higher seismic zone areas or multi-story buildings I think additional testing is is required
▶ 0:34:45so our Eric our research and development center you know they're working closely with industry they they have continuing efforts to demonstrate that material and advance that material but for routine military construction if uh for example a designb build RFP is for a single story building in seismic Zone a or seismic Zone B there's nothing that would preclude industry from proposing on that so recently the Navy and the core
▶ 0:35:15developed some joint training for our project managers our technical staff and our acquisition teams part of that training was Innovative construction methods and Innovative construction material so we want to you know continue that education and ensure that out in the field where the real work is done you know our team members are cognizant of new emerging technology and when they're evaluating proposals and planning projects you know they're keeping those those in mind as well
▶ 0:35:45thank you anyone else want to comment on I know we're all talking about seismic and that's important but what about the the very ious heat levels we would now would it be what you're making be viable in Alaska or in the Arctic as well as where I live in Texas where it's hot that's a good question I like as you've talked
▶ 0:36:16about what you're doing are you looking into those things because I think that's important I can maybe share a little bit about that so just going back to your last question of the reliability of 3D printing so that part I shared was made through 3D metal additive chances are if you flew to DC greater than 50% chance the plane you were flying on was powered off of additive parts so this has already been approved by the FAA it's being used regularly so additive
▶ 0:36:46is real it's happening it's being leveraged today in terms of the ability to operate in different environments that that part that got passed around is made out of cobal chromium one of the most resistant metals uh to heat and uh and cold as well and so our system is designed to be able to operate in the extreme cold like -40c as well as north north of 4dc right so that means it can go to Alaska it can go to Texas and actually one of the unique things is it actually likes the cold it actually performs better
▶ 0:37:16in the cold uh so we're actually looking forward to a Navy deployment that is going to be going to Alaska any others want to comment okay Navy want to comment mron thank you chairman Carter I just add to the comments the gentlemen have made that I think first the additive manufacturing is very highly developed and we use it extensively to manufacture parts we use it to manufacture
▶ 0:37:46parts that are no longer obtainable uh in the in the market we use it for troop deployments where we can do things in an expeditionary environment added construction is a very promising Tech technology and has developed um very substantially over the last several years and I think to your question about how does it a how is it applied in different temperature zones I think we we know more about its application in warm temperature zones I think temperature is certainly dependent on the types of mixtures that are being used
▶ 0:38:16for the additive construction that has to be carefully monitored and and maintained we have less experience with it in cold weather environments uh but I think all of those uh envir ments are important for the future development we we believe this is a technology that will have great use as as we go forward and especially as we begin to address some of the seismic issues that will allow us to apply it in the indopacific regions thank you for bringing that up because it's one of the questions I wanted to ask
▶ 0:38:47I visited Indo Pacific and so is my colleague and they've got a lot of issues over there uh and if one of it is that sea climate it's very hard on buildings do you have any are you building anything in that area where you know how it's affected by the ocean and the constant humidity and all the things they have at quadulan let's
▶ 0:39:18say yes yes sir thank you for that question we we uh as you know have a great deal of work across the entirety of the indopacific theater and in Guam as you mentioned we have a very large uh construction program we have a lot of infrastructure that is aged and damaged that we are working to repair and to harden uh and we're using a a wide variety of techniques and approaches to do that we have to be very sensitive to not just seismicity in
▶ 0:39:48the area we have to be of course Very mindful of the typhoon uh conditions that facilities have to endure in those locations s we have to as you pointed out understand the impact of the of the saltwater conditions and other things that they're exposed to and so that limits some types of materials we find that some steel materials uh if they're going to be used in that area have to be uh specially uh prepared for that kind of environment um if they're
▶ 0:40:18not and we've certainly had uh steel components that that have deteriorated very quickly in that environment we're beginning to look at the use of various um uh reinforced fiber reinforced polymers that can be used in that kind of environment there are some promising developments includ including panelized construction that is very resilient in those kinds of environments and it's also very strong has the ability to put fibers that provide different
▶ 0:40:49um capabilities within that particular panel that is developed so that it might provide RF shielding for for Skiffs or it might provide um uh armor or explosive resistance for different types of applications so we find that to be a a very valuable technique there and the the other thing that I would mention is that we're looking very hard at industrialized construction the ability to prefabricate components in the United States and have those shipped uh to those
▶ 0:41:19uh regions in the indopacific theater for installation on the project sites and we find both cost and and timing uh benefits of that application on the concrete that that they make with the with the 3D printing do you have the the if you're doing that over there and on the islands you got lots of sand but do you have any gravel or any other source to make that
▶ 0:41:49concrete viable or will it have to be shipped in there yes sir we've we've done testing with additive con construction working with both ery and with the navax engineering expeditionary Warfare center to see if we could use native materials uh we did a pilot project in Guam where we used all Native materials to do the additive construction and it was very successful we did blast testing with with those facilities um which were were very successful tests we
▶ 0:42:19we saw it stood up very well we've also um worked with saltwater concretes so that for expeditionary use not for long-term permanent facilities but for expeditionary use our troops can go in and use salt water rather than fresh water uh that would have to be brought in or purified on site uh to make the concrete and we've found very similar characteristics in in terms of strength and uh durability uh for for shortterm one or twoyear
▶ 0:42:50construction uh that we might expect in an expeditionary environment thank you Miss was thank you Mr chairman I I've been the ranking member or the chair of the subcommittee uh 2014 and uh most of that time I was serving alongside judge Carter um I think if he and I had a nickel for every reprogramming that we have signed in our roles uh due to increased construction costs
▶ 0:43:20increased labor costs that were unanticipated by the military um we could retire and and uh and president Trump has announced a 25% import tax on steel and aluminum in addition to a broad range of other tariffs against countries like Canada Mexico and China during this hearing he announced an 25% tariff on aluminum and steel against Canada um
▶ 0:43:50these countries are retaliating they are levying tariffs um in response and Bo cots um among the wide range of negative inflationary effects these unnecessary actions will have on our economy they'll undoubtedly lead to our needing to sign more reprogramming requests due to increase unanticipated costs so I'd like to hear from each of you what impact do you expect to see on material and construction costs as a result of the newly announced tariffs on products like steel
▶ 0:44:20aluminum um including the potential impacts on labor costs uh which American companies rely upon Mr Marl you can start thank you congresswoman um I think the the first point I'd like to make is we've put a tremendous amount of emphasis on our project planning process and reducing the risk and getting all of the information possible for the site exactly to minimize any future
▶ 0:44:51reprogramming so uh many of the efforts to do Advance a project to a 30 5% design get a better cost estimate Etc is already starting to pay dividends so hopefully we'll have fewer reprogramming based on unanticipated costs um I think it's really too early to tell um how the market is going to respond to to many changes and you know one of the shortcomings of cost engineering
▶ 0:45:21is we have lots of historical data but you know we can't you know look precisely into into the future so our cost Engineers you know follow the markets very carefully try to incorporate all of the risk informed decision making they can into developing those estimates uh but I think it's really too early to tell Mr Mar are are you really telling me that an unanticipated 50% tariff on aluminum and steel is not going to you're not sure whether that
▶ 0:45:51would cause unanticipated increase in costs to military construction projects it depends of course project by project where you know obviously we follow the biomerica Act and most of our material comes from this country we're talking about uh other Technologies like Mass Timber that could replace steel or concrete structures um every project is individual and I think the most important thing we can do is to try to get the number right in the first place
▶ 0:46:22so that that everybody has decision space to make the unfortunately all of you're saying um is is true and yet we still regularly have to are presented with reprogramming that are the result of unanticipated costs so the so the system you're describing isn't working um isn't improving and so no isn't working isn't improving and it's just hard for me to believe that you're um I know you're being truthful but it's hard for me to um buy
▶ 0:46:52that uh you're not sure whether 50% tariffs on a aluminum steel are not going to result in increased costs Mr Hamilton thank you ranking member of Westman shields for the question I think the you know I certainly acknowledge the challenge that you highlighted with cost estimating and especially in Dynamic uh Changing Times in the markets we've done a number of things to uh try to address those challenges as Mr Morrow identified
▶ 0:47:23we've put a focus on better understanding market conditions and being able to to predict them and incorporate them into our cost estimating processes we have a chief Economist that tracks all those economic Trends and builds them into our building cost indexes that we apply to our projects we've uh Advanced our development of cost schedule risk analysis uh are working to mature designs I think the innovations that we're talking about today in terms of materials and alternative construction methods
▶ 0:47:53is something that helps us deal with some of the uh specific Market turns whether it might be concrete or it might be steel or various construction materials that uh have pertubations and in cost we now have more alternatives to be able to use cross laminated Timbers or to be able to use uh tension fabric structures or printed uh concrete materials and other things that help us avoid those there's only two pilot projects per service on materials like that
▶ 0:48:23so there's certainly not widespread use of those alternative materials and so we're talking about the immediate impact of a 50% tarff tariff on the materials that we are currently using so what you're describing certainly in the long term when we move away from these kinds of materials but it it's hard to wrap my mind around the idea that I realize it's an no one wants to say what it is the real answer is because
▶ 0:48:54we all know what it is um it's pretty obvious um Mr Richardson thank you wasman Schultz uh for the question I was prepared to talk about uh barriers potential barriers to um including more Innovative construction techniques and Military construction uh I would so we didn't examine specific Technologies so I would say that this these inclused these increased tariffs could uh potentially Force us to be more Innovative and and
▶ 0:49:24uh employing construction methods that that could be uh used in the United States which would result in job losses because if we're shifting away from the industries that we typically use materials from because they're too expensive then obviously people will lose their jobs Mr chairman I have just one other question um from my home state of Florida to the far shores of Guam our military installations face a greater threat than ever before from extreme weather events that are impacted driven by climate change military construction
▶ 0:49:54obviously we've realized has to take into the account the danger of wildfires hurricanes severe storms more depending on the location of projects uh we have to increase our investments in resiliency now because even if building resiliency into these projects is costly we know Doing Nothing results in far greater cost to rebuild damaged and destroyed infrastructure so Mr Hamilton and Mr marrow um what steps are you taking to ensure that all military construction projects prioritize resiliency and how might
▶ 0:50:25alternative materials like the ones mentioned today play a role in improving the resiliency of our infrastructure thank you ranking member wasman sh for the question I think there are are many things we can do and and are doing to address this I think it it starts with uh understanding where we need to have different kinds of materials to withstand the kinds of um environments that we are witnessing today and some of the materials we're talking about today are specifically designed to deal with those
▶ 0:50:55harsh environment ments we're making sure that we um are focused on updating our unified facilities criteria and guide specifications that incorporate those kinds of materials into the projects that we design we're making sure that we uh Harden areas for example as we uh try to recover from the typhoon maare and and Guam to harden the Utility Systems to make them more resilient uh more uh able to withstand the kinds of weather impacts that we have been experiencing
▶ 0:51:26and um make sure that we're prepared we have redundancy in our in our systems uh where that's necessary to be able to continue military operations in the in the face of those kinds of events thank you just congresswoman two two points one I I would use tendle Air Force Base as an example obviously that installation was devastated following a hurricane many years ago there's been a tremendous amount of construction there and that those new facilities have fared very well in subsequent
▶ 0:51:56storms so I do think we're learning lessons and we're continually improving another strength that the core of engineers has is our Civil Works missions so we do a lot of coastal storm damage reduction projects um other projects of that nature so when there are our Coastal installations we've got that uh technology and that uh you know subject matter expert base to to lean on and if it's a a Navy or an Air Force project you know we work collaboratively all the time to
▶ 0:52:26make sure we're putting the right professionals to to address those types of issues thank you uh thank you Mr chairman I I know you and I have seen the impact of the saltwater erosion um and intrusion in the Pacific and in Florida we have mcdill and Tindle that are you know right on the right on the water and are regularly exposed to the risks so we need to make sure we're continuing to focus on resiliency thank
▶ 0:52:58thank you Mr chairman and thank you to all of our Witnesses today and I'll ask you to give me a little Grace on my voice as well but um I I want to go back to this supply chain issue for for a moment because I I I think it's very important uh not just in light of tariffs but after covid-19 we saw how fragile all of our uh Supply chains are and one of the things that we have done
▶ 0:53:28I'd like to ask you Mr Hamilton uh one of the things that we've done in HUD is on some programming uh we have allowed them a two-year U appropriation and that the response has been very positive um can you talk about how two two well a couple things how would that help with your your
▶ 0:53:58supply chain issues with uh cross laminate timber for example uh I know they did a project up in uh Joint Base um uh Lewis M McCord um I think Mr Richardson talked about that um can you talk a little bit about what that might mean to cost and um development yes sir thank
▶ 0:54:28thank you Congressman Ruther for the for the question we we do struggle uh today as our construction projects are more and more costly especially with our o andm Appropriations which are one-year Appropriations today the the average cost of our large um omm funded projects are larger than the military construction projects we funded not that many years ago and so as we as we look at those projects we also find that both for military
▶ 0:54:59construction and onm funded projects we have many um specific components and Equipment sometimes materials that are long lead sometimes uh a year and a half two three years for substations and electrical switch gear and other things so the ability to have that equipment purchased in advance so that it's available when the construction project needs it is really important to allow the project to be able to finish uh in a timely manner the length of
▶ 0:55:29Appropriations is challenging because as you execute a a very large om andm appropriation uh Pro appropriated project with a with a the expiration of the funds you're both squeezing it on the front end and often challenged to have a large number of those projects all going out to competition at the same time in the latter part of the fiscal year and then you're executing it after the appropriation has expired so especially on those repair
▶ 0:55:59projects you encounter unforeseen conditions and those conditions there's no longer of a current appropriation to fund those changes so you have to reach back to Appropriations often delay in the project raising the cost of delivery so multi-year on appro Appropriations would be very helpful to alleviate that issue it it's worked very well in HUD Mr chairman that's something we may want to look at also Mr Healey I I I am really thank you Mr
▶ 0:56:29Hamil I I am really um intrigued by your uh development uh one of the things that I'm really concerned about uh for America's defense is you know these electromagnetic pulses and uh is your generator protected from those uh emps or can it be yeah thank you Congressman uh today it is not
▶ 0:56:59protected from EMP uh tax but what I will share is through our journey we've been working with the Navy and the Navy has continued to give us military specs that we need to be able to meet and then our engineering team goes and achieves those a perfect example is uh Navy is going to run on diesel fuel they wanted to be able to run on up to 20% contaminated with saltwater diesel fuel so then we go and we engineer the system to be able to do that uh so that's something if you know the military is interested in we'd be happy to explore
▶ 0:57:30that that is uh pretty amazing actually um I'd like to ask uh Mr Maro the uh in the 2025 ndaa we allowed I forget the suction um let's see we we allow you to now use on andm instead of milon for uh budgeting for some of the uh beach beach erosion other
▶ 0:58:00uh types of erosion at our military facilities like uh blunt Island um um command in in Jacksonville where we've got some erosion on the island and um is is the Navy planning on using that moving forward are are we is that all you need to to start onm so anytime we
▶ 0:58:30have more flexibility on the types of projects we can fund whether milcon or omm it it makes us more responsive and more flexible I'm not familiar if we have so when the core executes omm whether on behalf of the army or the Navy they do it on a reimbursable basis and our organization is funded by those projects so we've we've had a number of recent changes to the onm rules that have all been very very helpful so the most recent is in Barracks so we can now
▶ 0:59:01repair a Barracks um through a replacement of a new facility that's a a pilot initiative that okay Mr Mar I hate to cut you off but I'll see my time is expired uh but I I will tell you I found it it's section 2847 uh so if we could look at moving those projects forward especially at blunt Island command thank you yes sir I you back
▶ 0:59:33man I'm lose my voice Mr Bishop thank you very much uh Mr chairman and let me thank the witnesses for their uh the testimony this morning uh let me start with uh Mr marrow uh as you know Georgia is has the largest stand of privately on Timberland and the nation and we're proud of our effers to be good stewards of the land and produce environmentally friendly materials
▶ 1:00:04that directly contribute to sequestering greenhouse gases uh and the Advent of mass Timber the building material made from multiple layers of wood that you've described is amazing uh it's an innovation high quality low cost efficient environmentally friendly building construction uh you're now able to build much larger and taller structures with this engineered wood in 2023 the core
▶ 1:00:34announced a new policy of considering at least one option where Mass Timber is a substantial structural component for comparing structural systems during the early design of vertical construction projects can you give an update of the new policy and if you've seen an increase in the usage of mass Timber in construction projects and do you have any suggestions on how we can reduce the remaining barriers the adoption
▶ 1:01:05of mass timber in military construction Pro projects thank you Congressman so so quick update we are we've are at 100% design for a mass Timber Barracks at Joint Base Lewis mcord and so that's an FY 25 milcon project so if we have an Appropriations Bill to execute that work you know we're poised to do that right now um but you're absolutely right um over the last few
▶ 1:01:35years there is much more uh code compliant Mass Timber cross- laminated Timber uh capability so so we are encouraging all of our cons our designers and on our design build construction contractors to bring to the table you know any innov technology that's both code compliant and meets the mission and so as commodity prices change as you know uh the economic
▶ 1:02:05circumstances on the ground change you know that's when industry we want to give them the most flexibility to bring the best ideas to the table you know to safely safely deliver quality projects on time and on budget so we we really rely on our industry Partners you know to be as Innovative as possible uh you mentioned if we get an Appropriations Bill uh with the majority pushing for a fouryear continuing resolution uh I'm very concerned that
▶ 1:02:35the lack of certainty and direction from Congress May severely hamper armed services so I'd like to hear from you how this would affect milcon projects that are currently in projects in progress or or those that are projected for 2025 completion uh what a 4year CR delay future projects so we have two in Georgia for FY 29 will those be pushed back so if we weren't allowed new starts my understanding is the
▶ 1:03:05current bill under consideration does allow new starts for military construction but until it's passed we we won't know okay one other followup um the in daa for fy19 required the Department of Defense to stop purchasing a past by October of 2023 and to stop using them completely by October of 25 uh what advancements uh
▶ 1:03:36has the core of engineers made in this area as the deadline is quickly approaching what testing is being completed on new materials so we won't find ourselves in the same situation years down the road battling hazards materials yes sir so we've been prohibited from using past for past containing materials primarily in a f or aquous firefighting foam um since 2016 however our Legacy
▶ 1:04:06systems we need to decommission them upgrade them to new systems and and we've been uh you we're on a path to do that um the final set of contracts to execute all of that recommissioning and upgrading those a f systems um are ready for contract award this year current price tag our estimate is about $56 million um it's not yet been funded but we're we're ready to execute as soon as funding is made available
▶ 1:04:36again you know the core executes these projects on a reimbursable basis for the installation command thank you um Mr Hamilton uh can you tell us what you've been seeing with regard to the use of mass Timber with Navy yes sir thank you for the question we we also are doing a pilot project with uh cross laminated Timbers ours as a Child Development Center and the Hampton Roads Virginia area uh that project is in design and will
▶ 1:05:06soon transition to construction we found a lot of advantages to the to the cross- laminated Timber it's lighter than steel or concrete it has resiliency features it is actually very compared to other wood components very um good in Fire and even black resistance um but one of the big advantages we've found with it is it can be manufactured in a in a um manufacturing environment which is very
▶ 1:05:36precise cut with uh digital equipment and brought to the site uh in very precise component shapes and sizes and installed there often saving uh time of infield construction so we see this as a as an opportunity for uh future use in a number of different ways and as as you mentioned now uh now available to be used for uh higher taller buildings uh than than we had approved it for in the past
▶ 1:06:07well thank thank you very much I think my time has expired thank you Mr chairman and thank you to the witnesses for being here with us this morning let me first start out by saying that I'm proud to represent the Oklahoma City metro area which is home to Tinker Air Force Base and Tinker has made use of some Innovative Technologies like augmented reality to smartly design military construction projects like the bomber agile common hanger augmented rally has allowed Tinker to identify some unforeseen
▶ 1:06:38um site conditions well ahead of time which will reduce the cost and streamline project timelines um additionally tinker's bomber agile Hangar has the potential of reducing costs from not having to rebuild facilities and projects as often uh thereby increasing the lifespan of these uh facilities so I think that these Innovative Technologies have some incredible use and I'm glad that to hear today that we're using some of them one of the questions I have and it's probably more for Mr Healey and Mr Richardson is can you talk a little bit about the challenges that
▶ 1:07:08you face with actually uh getting into uh you know the dod and utilizing these new Innovative Technologies the process for engagement um is it challenging for you all to actually uh enter the marketplace to be able to to sell your product we were fortunate that our relationship with the Navy actually began when this technology was still within GE obviously GE has a massive relationship with the military and then that contract
▶ 1:07:38moved over and then we've subsequently been able to uh win additional contracts with the Navy going forward what we found if we're doing it the organic path the sbir is the best place to start uh but I I do agree with your comment of as a startup company it's not necessarily easy to navigate the military Mr Rich would you like to add there so the study we did for dazd examining uh barriers to uh the inclusion of innovative construction
▶ 1:08:08techniques in milcon showed that perhaps uh establishment of of goals and and metrics could uh facilitate the use of more of these of these materials for example like identifying uh a u a specific technology and and setting what and establishing what percentage of uh milon project would include said technology would be a way to overcome that barrier perfect thank you um shifting to Mr Morrow
▶ 1:08:38and Mr Hamilton in your experience have you seen regulations with green initiatives on milit military bases uh to include mandating certain environmental standards drive up the cost of milcom projects so that uh it was referenced earlier uh mil con cost premium study so when we evaluate the cost of milcon we kind of sort them into these are legal reasons why military construction is sometimes more import expensive these are regulatory issues and the
▶ 1:09:09these are policy issues and often times with respect to those environmental issues it's the first cost versus the life cycle cost you know and that analysis so it certainly can drive first cost up um hopefully Drive life cycle cost down but um but that those policy issues definitely are a contributor to that mil con no guarantee though that those life cycle costs will go down this is sort of an assumption or a conjecture
▶ 1:09:39uh based on information you have today correct and and any of those policies there is a waiver process and many of them are changing right now but but yes Mr Hamilton would you like to um I agree with what Mr Morrow said I think that uh we often as we look at the use of our facilities the the length and the variety of missions that a given military facility will um experience over the life of the facility are very different than what is
▶ 1:10:09experienced in private sector and so the life cycle cost becomes really much more important than the than the initial cost and sometimes those Investments that are driving costs up and many of them do have statutory or policy drivers but many of them do have reasons that pay off over the life cycle of that facility and so we try to look at those uh two different components and balance uh you know the needs of the military for a given project would it be more helpful if you had flexibility though to make those decisions without the mandates or
▶ 1:10:39policy uh directives that are included yes ma'am flexibility is is always valuable thank you um lastly Mr Hamilton in your remk opening remarks you mentioned some statutory requirements that do need to change to allow more flexibility in the use of can you talk a little bit more about that uh yes congresswoman thanks for the question I I think this is an area that we're we are really looking hard at because as Mr Maro said we rely on industry to bring Innovative um techniques
▶ 1:11:09constructions materials to our our projects as you highlight um industry members are often hesitant to do that because there's risk in proposing those new technologies uh there's risk in not being selected we're trying to make our um request for proposals have selection criteria that favor innovative solutions that drive down costs and speed delivery uh but there's still a familiarity because usually that that partner is coming in not as a general contractor
▶ 1:11:40they're coming in as a subcontractor or a vendor and so they have to form that relationship and that and the general contractor has to be familiar with that technology and feel comfortable in overseeing that in the project that they're responsible for and that sometimes takes time and so I think things that partner that relationship um help facilitate uh Innovation the other the other point that I think is really important that I would make is that our current um Contracting
▶ 1:12:10requirements some statutory some regulatory make it very difficult for us to bring Constructors in early to partner with designers to walk through those means and methods and Alternatives and go through the use cases that might drive down cost and speed and so additional flexibilities that allow us to award a a construction type contract uh partnered with the designer early in the process would be helpful to bring Innovation to projects
▶ 1:12:40thank you and Mr chairman I think it would be great for Mr Hamilton to maybe give give us some additional examples of how that could be utilized and what policy directives we may be able to um Implement to help uh achieve those long-term goals so with that Mr chairman I yield welcome thank you so much Mr chairman Madame ranking member I am thrilled to be on the Appropriations Committee and on this subcommittee uh to our Witnesses thank you all so much for sharing
▶ 1:13:11all of this great information with us I get to represent Fort Bliss uh it is a premier installation and the 3D Barracks that uh were printed on Fort Bliss are really exceptional and uh was proud to be on site for different components of the project and I'd like to invite any of my fellow committee members who'd like to come and see them to join me at Fort Bliss so
▶ 1:13:41you can take a look firsthand at the quality of the work we are all wanting to find as much efficiency and savings as possible I've been so alarmed and concerned about the way that it's being done right now by um the president and uh his buddy Elon Musk with the mass firings of Watchdogs and uh people with key important experience
▶ 1:14:11uh I I think that costs us money in the long term it doesn't save us money but the conversations happening in this committee right now are what could actually save us money if we take the information that we learn here and actually put it into action and we have uh data from our district from Fort Bliss about the milcon projects there uh and they are one example of where this subcommittee really could
▶ 1:14:41find some key savings many of the the military construction projects and this is true across the country end up costing anywhere in El Paso our data shows from six 68% more than what's happening locally to 500 times more uh than what is happening locally when we compare housing built at our local University same square footage um you know kind of same parameters to Barracks
▶ 1:15:12construction the cost differential is shocking so there are huge opportunities for us to change things up and and you all have given us some good examples um I think among those uh opportunities we can require comparative market analysis for all facilities Improvement plan projects we could Empower a privatized housing partner to build Barracks as an example we could establish major construction intergovernmental
▶ 1:15:42service agreements with local governments as an example but 3D printing is uh another critical example so Mr Morrow um would love to in a little bit on this with you what are um what kind or actually you know what I'm going to skip to the second question um that I was planning on asking you but what latitude do you think installation commanders need
▶ 1:16:12in order to utilize more 3di uh 3D printing for things like Barracks or for other construction projects when I was on site after the ribbon cutting I asked the folks there same question what what were the impediments what were what are the areas of opportunity where we can expedite this more what do we need to do in order to make more projects like this successful and possible thank you congresswoman that's a great question so
▶ 1:16:43our installation commanders and our garrisons are the requirements generators for all of the milcon projects that eventually come to the core of engineers or to nafac um for so it it really starts with you know what are their requirements on site and if they can shape those to be conducive for Innovative Technologies uh so a lot of it has to do with you know multi-story construction it's going to be more problematic you know Mass Timber
▶ 1:17:13has its limitations on how large a building but but there's nothing that prevents them from you know creating a campus environment or something slightly different so so again you know what we we encourage people to do is be as you know as uh performance oriented in developing those requirements as possible and not as prescriptive and when you do that then it opens up opportunities for new ideas Innovative
▶ 1:17:43technology Etc and I did just recently meet with our construction field team out of the Fort Worth District tremendous uh set of uh exemplary professionals so thank you for those kind words thank you I'm out of time but I think it would be important at some point to hear from all of you what are the barriers to making sure we move on this opportunity quickly so that we can focus on eliminating those barriers Mr chairman i y
▶ 1:18:18back thank you Mr chairman thank you gentlemen for being here with us this morning very fascinating topic to me and then there's also some transfer over with the core to the energy and water subcommittee I sit on Mr Hamilton Mrs Bice stole the question I was gonna ask you because I I know in your testimony you talked about statutory changes needed I'd love to follow up with you further on some of those but um I know Mr Mar L like you were chomping at the bit to hop in there too from the core's perspective what are some statutory changes we can do to assist you with process so Mr
▶ 1:18:48Hamilton referred to getting construction contractors involved early in the process and and we can do that within Federal acquisition regulations but sometimes we have to really contort ourselves to to make that so we have ECI contracts and what we refer to as idac um contracts integrated design and construction contracts but it it does require a lot of extra cons contract Administration and extra Hoops to jump through so other transactional
▶ 1:19:18authorities we have a milcon construction pilot for all the services for OTAs again goes back to that comment the more flexibility we have just like when we don't if we tell a contractor exactly what we want we're going to get what we ask for if we tell them the the requirements that we need then we get those new ideas the same is true on the acquisition side for napac and usace you know the more decision space we have and flexibility the more Innovative we can be in in
▶ 1:19:48bringing those to bear so I would say right now we can't really do agressive design bid build which is a common delivery method in Industry within the constraints that we have other than through an OTA so that would be an example okay I look forward to following up with both of you and working with staff so if we can there's specific things we can do to assist in that process and we need to do it um let's see Mr Richardson you talked about DOD needing a road map um can you talk
▶ 1:20:18a little bit more about that what how can we assist in that and what would that look like thank you Congressman for that question so uh the road map that that uh that we envision would look like the National Defense science technology strategy um so that that strategy identifies critical Technologies for National National Defense so and uh commercial actually leads commercial industry leads the way in the development of those of those Technologies
▶ 1:20:49those Technologies are um are shared that's the strategy is is you can look look it up on on the internet and um because those are are shared and available we see uh Academia we see the Department of Defense and we see industry innovating in that space so something similar to that but for milcon which would include the identification of technologies that would be critical to improving milcon performance uh would be what I recommend okay
▶ 1:21:19great and we look forward to working with you on something like that as well Mr Healey thank you for your presentation I was not amiliar with with what you're doing and I'd love to learn more I'd love to get a deeper dive on it sounds like you youve figured out the better and the faster at scale will this be cheaper seems like it would be just with all the problems it solves so we expect that upfront cost will be more than a conventional diesel generator but then it really comes down to what's your Roi what's your payback and there's three key or two key advantages that we're offering so one is that improved
▶ 1:21:49efficiency which means you're just going to use less fuel which is the majority of cost of operating a generator is the fuel that goes into it and then the second is the lower maintenance so we're finding that depends on the industry uh actually in military applications where fuel is very expensive in some instances it's going to mean you're going to have a faster payback but in normal Industries we're seeing it's in a few years that you actually break over and it's a positive return on your investment do you feel that Government Contracting is set
▶ 1:22:19up to allow for the long range Horizon View or is it just an upost whoever's cheapest to produce gets it I mean do do you feel that we Factor Roi into to as we evaluate different options I'm probably not the best commented on on it at this stage just because of where we are where we just have moved into the commercialization phase of things uh up to now it's been more of the development phase working with the Navy but one thing to share is additive manufacturing 3D printing it's new right and so if
▶ 1:22:49if the military is going to demand volume of these type of solutions that means the suppliers need to go out and procure 3D printers set those up and that process can take over a year to do and so any uh Vision or any kind of visibility into the Horizon of demand and volumes is extremely helpful because this isn't just hire contractors to go build it this is go buy new machines new equipment that will be better at manufacturing okay Carno likes cold so how about the moon
▶ 1:23:19or Mars yeah so outer space is something that's on the theoretical we think it can be done but uh time will tell we got to get things deployed here in the US first Roger thanks Mr chairman I go back thank you Mr chairman I am truly honored and excited to be uh on the subcommittee and uh I have the uh great honor and responsibility to represent Marine Corps base Camp Pendleton in beautiful Southern California uh just a couple of weeks ago I toured
▶ 1:23:50some of our barracks and they need help so I'm very excited be on the subcommittee in part uh to see what we can do about the barracks there on base we've got about 125 of them and about half either need to be completely torn down or thoroughly rehabilitated uh the Marines uh that uh run the base they talk about the barracks as operational necessity no longer do they use the term quality of life it's operational necessity it's about
▶ 1:24:20readiness and a lot of these um Junior inlisted Marines and Sailors are living in subpar conditions you've got you know HVAC systems that don't work you've got mold you know I I toured one uh building where Marines had been living as recently as just a few months before and uh it's just unacceptable that we would continue uh to to uh to have barracks in that shape towards that end I'm very interested in uh in getting this fixed and if if 3D printing provides a way to do it
▶ 1:24:50um maybe faster and cheaper that's of interest to me uh but I wanted to ask um and maybe Mr richson I'll start with you because you had some of this in your testimony um Camp Pendleton we've got multi-level Barracks you know bigger bigger buildings I was talking to my my colleague and friend um miss esbar about the Fort Bliss Barracks has there been any testing of larger uh Barracks larger facilities can you tell me anything
▶ 1:25:21about higher initial costs size constraint obviously in California we have these things called earthquakes that we're always concerned about and then maybe whatever additional regulatory approval would be needed to do something like that uh thank you for the question uh Congressman uh we did not it's part of the the study I mentioned examine any specific Technologies but what I can tell you and I know Mr Hamilton or Mr Moro can comment on uh if you're talking about building multistory facilities uh you're
▶ 1:25:51going to be limited into what Innovative techniques materials that you can you can use uh for example I believe the concrete printing is limited to one one story one story story now however a limited uh Timber is is not anybody else want to comment on this thank you I would just say that the the current requirement is single story uh seismic zones A and B so potentially problematic but more testing could result in increased seismic zone areas
▶ 1:26:21or multi-story building and for the of Engineers that testing is done out of our construction lab in Champagne Illinois and I those people are amazing and I would invite anyone on the subcommittee who would like a tour or to visit the facility they would love to have you and can you reinforce the 3D printed concrete with steel as you would in a normal building it is reinforced with steel and what are the so the constraints on multi-story are what there lack of testing lack of testing but
▶ 1:26:51that's going on right now in that's the that's the source where the core of engineers does all its construction testing however um you know unless we have funding and a requirement you know so they're working with industry every day but um we have to have a requirement to work against go ahead know you're eager to get in I was just going to say Sir that I I think today the the Gantry crane printers are generally limited to one story but there's a new printer technology that's in
▶ 1:27:21that's been developed and is in testing right now that's more of a an a single arm that can pres print up to 27 feet tall and so that will allow us to get up to a second story would allow you to print roofs they're testing that technology today and I think as that gets gets tested and and we have uh analysis of this of the seismic um resiliency of it that's a that's a new that'll open up new doors to to much bigger use the folks there on base tell me that if they were to uh
▶ 1:27:52redo the roughly half of the buildings we're talking about well over a billion dollars the barracks 2030 initiative says everything has to be redone by 2043 any thought on um the initial startup cost for for the 3D printing alternative and then also when you think it might be commercially available if I could sir I I think I'm very familiar with Camp Pendleton I rebuilt a lot of the barracks there sort of the last generation built the hospital there so I appreciate your comments
▶ 1:28:22did a great job with that um I think in addition to 3D printing industrialized construction is very well suited to the Marine Corp Barracks program it's an oportunity to have standard designs to build modules that you can have fabricated in a uh manufacturing environment where you have the workforce you have all the industrialized computerized machinery and you send those modules out to be installed on the site a general contractor puts in the site work the slabs and really assembles
▶ 1:28:52the modules and I think when you look at the long duration Barracks program that the Marine Corps is talking about really recapitalizing their entire Barracks infrastructure that's ideally suited for that kind of uh event there are things we need to do to help that industrialized manufacturing or construction capability in the United States take off and and take hold so we're at of time I don't want to run long in my very first hearing but I look forward to further conversation with you we'll take that back and I'll yield back
▶ 1:29:25Mr thank you chairman um I have to admit I come to this first hearing with a little bit of bias on this military construction and VA subcommittee uh my bias is informed by my years I spent in the Navy I deployed to the Western Pacific in ' 0103 and 05 and just a few months ago I was able to visit some of the bases 20 years later that I was deployed to and uh was left with a little less energy seeing some of the infrastructure there had been left abandoned dilapidated and is
▶ 1:29:55in dire need of our support here and I appreciate the witnesses and your expertise and your experience and helping to inform us here on the subcommittee panel on how we in Congress and our services can do a better job uh raising our standards um some of the facilities I visited have those dilapidated structures specifically in Japan a number of them uh and those dilapidated structures detract from their operational value uh and their outright dangerous and unusable
▶ 1:30:25uh rightfully so the indopacific command is a large focus of our Department of Defense uh they're anticipating and deterring threats from the CCP Russia and North Korea um Mr Hamilton uh given your expertise as one of the Navy's top Engineers uh how can our military with congress's support and the Navy specifically be more agile in terms of acquisition and Adoption of Novel Construction Technologies especially in that very important indopacific command
▶ 1:30:56Congressman thanks very much for the question I I also uh was stationed in in Korea and in Guam and deployed into the Pacific Theater and so I'm very uh familiar with the challenges that they face there I do think that that we need to have a a long-term capital plan to to modernize those facilities as you said many of them are are far beyond their useful life and we need to be providing facilities that um that can replace those and take the modern Weapons
▶ 1:31:26Systems the modern missions that are uh expected to be deployed in those areas I think contractually uh I do believe that the industrialized construction technique that I talked about earlier is one that that is very applicable to overseas especially in the indopacific theater where we could uh fabricate many of the components or modules in the states and have them shipped for installation I think it gives us the ability to be very agile so that those can be configured in different ways
▶ 1:31:56to meet different missions and we can be very responsive to the military commander needs and where the priorities are as they change over time thank you sir uh Mr Richardson I um we were chatting before you graduated three years after the best Naval Academy class that has ever been appreciate that in your service in the Navy civil engineer Corps can you add some perspectives to how the the Navy the military specifically with congress's support can help improve more get more projects done on time uh
▶ 1:32:26within the right quality and the right cost uh thank you for that question and a comment uh Mr Congressman um so yeah there are uh certainly um Innovative uh technologies that that could improve performance um I wish uh I was able to explore more of these Technologies in our study but um going back to some of my earlier comments um established ing or identifying some of those technologies that could could
▶ 1:32:56assist in U perhaps better uh um constru construction performance would be would be of value thanks and Mr Morrow I only have about a minute left but with my remaining time similar question where can Congress help our services knock down some of the bureaucratic red tape or otherwise expedite the military construction as it relates to delivering projects that are at the right cost at the right time and the right quality sir thank you for that question question so what we're doing right now is trying
▶ 1:33:26to identify what why milcon costs more than private sector and and really produce as factual a document as possible here are the laws that impact our costs um here are the regulations that impact our costs and here are the policies that impact our costs so that those policies can be changed if if the new Administration chooses um those regulations can be addressed through rul making or those laws can be changed so I think my personal
▶ 1:33:56position is I'm agnostic on those things you know we're here to serve um and to support the administration and the Congress but but we want to present you the facts so that you know um why that milcon premium exists thanks so appreciate gentleman your expertise and your participation Tedy heing chairman ibeck uh thank you Mr chairman and gentlemen thank you for being here uh today
▶ 1:34:27uh Mr Mar you mentioned in your WR written testimony uh you talk about the important role that ertic plays um I'm from Mississippi and so I have been had the opportunity to uh visit the facility there in Vicksburg uh to see uh the great work uh that they do um and so my question to you is as a body how can Congress how can this committee specifically uh what can
▶ 1:34:57we do to support Eric's Mission uh and to make sure that you have the resources that you need to as you say in your statement to see that we continue to discover develop and deliver trusted engineering and scientific solutions to the war fighter in the nation thank you for that so Eric is an organization across the globe but they serve many many stakeholders in customers and like the rest of the core engineers
▶ 1:35:27primarily operate on a reimbursable basis so essentially everything that the core does is based in law so if there's a requirement and somebody goes to erct to execute that requirement they they get super excited to do that so working with industry some of the pilots you know whether it's Mass Timber or additive construction you know they they all you know come to erdic through some legislative Authority and appropriation and
▶ 1:35:58there's no better place in my opinion for that work to be done but we they do need that specific Authority and appropriation for any of their work thank you uh Mr Hamilton um want to ask you one or two things real quickly uh you stay in your opening statement uh you kind of echo uh some of the uh remarks of Mr Maro you say that the primary role is to support our war Fighters uh home and abroad
▶ 1:36:28uh to make us War Fighters more lethal adaptable and resilient first thank you for uh both of you for refocusing that mission uh to making sure that we're putting the emphasis on the war fighter that we're providing them what they need to um place when we place them In Harm's Way that they have what they need to be able to perform that mission uh and to uh come home uh to their family safely uh and then you talk about different initiatives some that are current some that are involving prefabrication
▶ 1:36:58being one additive construction modular construction all things uh in which we currently are either operating or uh intend to operate uh in the the near future um one of the facilities that served in my facility is a Meridian Naval Air Station uh they are home of the training uh airwing one uh many of our Naval aviators began their initial training there in Meridian before going on for more specialized training uh one of the projects
▶ 1:37:28there that we're working toward is one of the hangers there hanger to uh needs a new roof facility because of age because of uh Sometimes some of the inclement weather that comes through particularly in the spring and fall known as tornadoes and wind gust um we used to think that Hurricane Alley was there in the west I believe now it's shifted to coming through the southeast and so uh often see those types of weather conditions really exacerbate the the condition of some of the
▶ 1:37:59the buildings there and so a as we look at these Innovations uh we know some of these Innovations are probably better used for new construction uh and others for things such as uh renovations to hanger 2 or renovations to other buildings kind of talk me through uh how this these Innovations can be used both again for the new construction but also as we're looking at repairing and renovating existing buildings
▶ 1:38:29on facilities thank you Congressman guest I I think we have a real challenge across all the military services but certainly from my uh place in the Navy and the Marine Corps with aging infrastructure obsolete infrastructure more repairs than we can afford to make in the time frame they need to be made and so there's always a challenge for us prioritizing and I would say is we've uh faced some some very costly things like the maare
▶ 1:38:59uh you know typhoon and Guam where we've had to make some emergency repairs to the glass Breakwater and other things that draw away from planned uh Renovations and and modernizations uh like the the hangar roof that you spoke to I do think there are opportunities as we go forward to to build more resilient facilities and and more um facilities that will will last longer because our facilities we may build them for 50 years we tend to use them for 80 or 100 years
▶ 1:39:29and so we had to take that into account and I think that gets back to the life cycle cost analysis that when we invest in certainly something like a roof we want a roof that's going to last a long time because it's probably going to be in place for a very long time um but I I think that we have to work through that in the you know both the uh repair of existing facilities and new construction and they are related but they are are different I do believe we have more opportunity to apply some of these new technologies in new facilities because it's
▶ 1:39:59very difficult sometimes to incorporate or blend these Technologies with some of the existing facilities uh but we do have uh polymers and fibers that we are developing that allow us to reinforce and strengthen existing materials like roof trusses or uh other materials that you might uh find in existing facilities that allow us to extend the life of them and that's another area where I think we have we have benefits to do things faster and cheaper with some of the technologies that are being developed thank you
▶ 1:40:30very much uh with that Mr chairman I yeld back thank you Mr guest and I want to thank the panel for being here today I have a real interest in this I apologize for my voice it'll get better tomorrow I hope we look forward to working with you I want to come visit your lab um smart things new things that work good and are mobile
▶ 1:41:01are fantastic we got to make it work uh the islands are going to be a challenge for the Navy and the Army and some others wom is the typical example labor issues cost overruns all these things are going on and go um we got got to get that straight so I'm hoping to take this panel over to to for a visit
▶ 1:41:31to the islands again and uh keep that on our Forefront because it's real issues thank you all for being here I appreciate every one of you got one question for you if we were using your generators when the power went out in Texas would they have worked they would have worked yeah we wouldn't have had the uh the freezing uh buildings and Facilities that we had and and the health issues that we had as well okay
▶ 1:42:01good thank you thanks the of the panel we're
▶ 1:43:22for for