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▶ 0:21:22Rangers may lead the way, but special forces taught them how. All right. Good afternoon. The subcommittee will come to order. Sorry. Good. Sorry. Good morning. Good morning. The subcommittee will come to order. I ask unanimous consent that the chair be authorized to declare a recess at any time without objection. So ordered.
▶ 0:21:52Today we will hear from our witnesses on US Special Operations Forces and Command and their challenges and resource priorities for fiscal year 2026. Over the past several years, our nation has confronted an evolving an evolving landscape, an evolving landscape of great power competition.
▶ 0:22:09Our special operators have adapted to meet the challenges posed by our adversaries while continuing to com to combat the continuous and evolving threats posed by violent extremist organizations, military proxies, and non-state actors. Despite the long wars in Afghanistan and Iraq coming to close, the demands on special operations have actually increased, and they continue to rise.
▶ 0:22:31Special operations continue to be our greatest hedge against strategic distraction as they singularly respond to crisis around the world and neutralize terrorist networks with the intent and means to attack our to attack our homeland. The complexity of these no fail missions continues to rise as the battlefield becomes increasingly contested and denied by the proliferation of peer adversary capabilities and malign influence.
▶ 0:22:54We similarly rely on our special operations forces to impose cost on adversaries critical to reestablishing deterrence and providing the nation with a position of advantage should deterrence fail. We ask a lot of our special operations forces and demands on on them for will continue to grow every day. It is cru it is critical that we provide you with the resources that you need and we intend to do that.
▶ 0:23:17We look forward to hearing how Congress can best support SOCOM so that you can continue to provide the high return on investment the nation requires while simultaneously modernizing for the challenges of the future. Our witnesses today are leaders in the special operations community. I want to welcome Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Colobby Jenkins uh performing the duties of Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and low inensity conflict. Thank you, sir. and General Brian Fenton, US Army Commander of US Special Operations Command.
▶ 0:23:47Thank you, sir. In the interest of time, I ask that the witnesses keep their opening remarks to five minutes or less so that we have sufficient time for questions and answers. With that, let me thank our witnesses for appearing again. And I now recognize ranking member Crow for any opening remarks that you have. Thank you, Chairman. Appreciate your leadership in this and the other members as well. Um, Mr. Jenkins, General Fenton, thank you as well for your leadership.
▶ 0:24:12Um, as the chairman mentioned, you know, we're in an era of unprecedented threats, an evolution in the battlefield. Uh, you all continue to lead the men and women that are on the the tip of the spear, so to speak, in that evolution. Uh, this subcommittee is a partner in that effort. There's no gamesmanship. There's no gotcha in this subcommittee, which makes it unique in Congress at this time. We are here as as your partner.
▶ 0:24:36We of course have an important oversight role which we will always fulfill and ask hard questions and press when necessary. But more than anything else, we just want to get the answers to how we can better support you, what resources are needed uh so that the men and women who are doing incredible things on our behalf around the world, very dangerous things, oftentimes giving their lives to protect all of us have the best the best training, the best equipment, uh the best modernization. uh that that is our our simple goal here.
▶ 0:25:06Uh and it's a goal that I know that we share uh deeply and you have a commitment to that goal. So with that uh I won't uh take any more time. We can jump right into it. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you. We'll now hear from our witnesses and then we'll move into question and answer session. We have a 9:00 am hard stop uh so that we can in this open portion so that we can get to the closed portion immediately afterwards.
▶ 0:25:32We will be reconvening in Raburn 2337 immediately after this uh open session for the classified session. Mr. Jenkins, we'll go ahead and begin with you. Good morning, Chairman Jackson, Ranking Member Crow, and other distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the global posture of our nation's special operations forces or SOF. I'm honored to testify alongside General Fenton. We are joined here today by two extraordinary Americans who I would like to take a moment to recognize.
▶ 0:26:02Principal deputy assistant secretary of defense and director of the special operations secretariat Dr. Sandre Hopson seated behind me and so senior enlisted adviser command master chief Brad Rinlander also seated behind me. These dedicated servant leaders bring expertise and insights that have been invaluable as we advocate within the department of defense on behalf of our soft members and their families.
▶ 0:26:25As a combat veteran Green Beret myself, the opportunity to work with these incredible teammates and represent our soft enterprise is proud, profoundly humbling, and special. Today's global security environment has become increasingly complex. As AI and other technological advancements rapidly transform the character of warfare, threats from state and non-state actors continue to converge. Our global competitors actively seek to undermine the United States and our allies.
▶ 0:26:54Terrorist and transnational criminal networks continue to pose a serious threat to the homeland. In these turbulent times, my office, the Office of Special Operations Low inensity Conflict, or so, and the US Special Operations Command remain at the forefront of our nation's strategic priorities.
▶ 0:27:14Representing less than 2% 2% of the defense budget, our special operations forces provide unique outsized effects, adding exceptional value to the nation. Tasked with the most challenging and dangerous missions, SOF remain the world's most lethal, adaptable, and capable force. Our priorities for the SOF enterprise are squarely nested within Secretary Hex's priorities for the joint force.
▶ 0:27:40defend the homeland, strengthen deterrence, and increase burden sharing with allies and partners. Our elite warriors deter our adversaries by creating strategic asymmetric advantages and maintaining a regular warfare superiority, leveraging our close relationships with foreign partners in critical regions. SOF are uniquely positioned to identify and counter our adversaries malign and coercive activities.
▶ 0:28:07Whether in the Indoacific, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Western Hemisphere, or near our own southern border, these lowcost small footprint efforts promote stability, empower partners and allies, and lead efforts against China, terrorist, drug traffickers, and other threats. Even with the global increase in demand, our special operations forces face personnel cuts and resource constraints.
▶ 0:28:34In fact, armed conflict and regional instability have driven a 200% increase 200% increase in our crisis response mission over the past three years. While at the same time, operational and logistics costs for crisis response have increased 260%. We must ensure soft's readiness while balancing operational demands and optimizing available resources.
▶ 0:29:00We must also promote accountability through rigorous analytics and datadriven decision-making. Congress wisely established civilian oversight of special operations to ensure that soft remains strategically aligned, ethically grounded, and accountable.
▶ 0:29:17My office provides that policy direction, resource advocacy, and oversight needed to ensure that SOFT's initiatives and efforts stay focused on war fighter needs and national objectives without mission creep or undue strain on the force. This oversight is not bureaucratic. In fact, it is essential to effective war fighting. Our nation's security depends on a strong, agile, modernized, and accountable soft enterprise.
▶ 0:29:45With your support, we will continue ensuring that SOF is ready to deter, fight, and win anywhere. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I invite you to visit the soft community around the globe and to meet our service members and their families and to see firsthand the capabilities that we bring in the defense of our nation. Your continued support is critical. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. Thank you, sir. General Fenton, you're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:30:16Chairman Jackson, Ranking Member Crow, distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. This month marks 38 years since the creation of Special Operations Command. We are thankful for Congress's incredible foresight in creating us and steadfast support ever since. Joined today by Command Sergeant Major Shane Sharter. Shane exemplifies the unmatched caliber of our non-commission officer Corps.
▶ 0:30:42If you look at the hardest problems facing our nation, the darkest corners of this earth, you'll find our special operations non-commission officers solving them. Our NCOs exemplify the precision and lethality of your special operations teams and demonstrate our competitive and comparative advantage. They are the reason we're envied by militaries around the globe.
▶ 0:31:02It's an honor of a lifetime for Shane and me to represent the unformed and civilian members of your special operations command and the global soft warriors from 28 nations along with inter agency partners stationed at our SOCOM headquarters in Tampa. I'm also honored today to testify along Secretary Jenkins from ASD Solic.
▶ 0:31:22We rely on Sollex's partnership, support, and advocacy to ensure your special operations warriors and their families who serve right alongside them continue to thrive and win. We're in an era of serious national security challenges. The border, communist China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, terrorist organizations all pose significant threats in isolation. However, we are increasingly seeing these threats converge across the globe.
▶ 0:31:52Meanwhile, the character of war is changing faster than we've ever seen. The innovation cycle now turns in days and weeks, not months and years. Our adversaries use $10,000 one-way drones that we shoot down with $2 million missiles. That costbenefit curve is upside down. To summarize, this is the most complex asymmetric and hybrid threat security environment I've seen in 38 years of service.
▶ 0:32:18Contending with these challenges demands more from your special operations forces. That requires tough choices, forcing trade-offs as we strike to balance an increase in operations readiness and the need for modernization. Your elite SOCOM team provides an outsized return on any investment. However, with only 3% of the DoD forces and less than 2% of DoD's budget, we are now playing a zero- sum game.
▶ 0:32:47Yet, I'd submit your special operations forces are tailor made for this era. Rapidly responding to crisis, disrupting terrorist organizations and asymmetrically deterring our adversaries. Employed expressly at the direction of the president and the secretary of defense. So's crisis response mission is the nation's most lethal and surgical tool to eliminate threats to the homeland, rescue American citizens, and protect our diplomats, all at a moment's notice.
▶ 0:33:16In the past three and a half years, the frequency of these presidentially directed missions significantly increased by 200%. Yet for this sacred obligation, we will accept no risk in today's crisis response mission. Some may think we're done fighting terror. I'd submit terror is not done with us. SOCOM's mission to degrade terrorist groups starts at our border, spans the globe.
▶ 0:33:40In recent months, your special operations teams eliminated over 500 terrorists who had the intent and capability to strike at our homeland. Alongside our global special operations partners, we've captured over 600. Aligned with the department's priorities, deterrence has long been a part of SOCOM's DNA. We are America's irregular warfare experts. We deter war by altering our adversaries decisions below the threshold of conflict in the gray zone.
▶ 0:34:09And we stand ready to prevail if deterrence fails. As combatant commands seek to strengthen deterrence, requests for SOCOM capabilities have increased by more than 35% in the last two years alone. Against that backdrop, we continue to grapple with years of flat budgets, 14% decrease in buying power, significant personnel reductions, and the requirement to evolve our technology and authorities.
▶ 0:34:39All this forces tradeoffs, tough choices that challenge current missions and puts modernization at risk. Yet, your SOCOM remains the world's premier special operations force. And I pledge to always provide the nation with the best special operations capability for the fiscal and personnel resources we receive. We will never compromise on standards and lethality.
▶ 0:35:04We are grateful for this subcommittee's work on novel approaches to soft funding and authorities and I look forward to taking your questions. Thank you. Thank you, General. We'll start with questions now and I'll start by recognizing myself. Um General Fenton, we had our office call about three weeks ago and you mentioned the challenges of supporting all the requests of soft um that you're getting from the um from the geographic combatant commands.
▶ 0:35:29uh in your statement you mentioned a 35% increase from 2023 to 2025. Can you expand a little bit uh for the benefit of the folks here uh watching this hearing? Can you tell us a little bit uh give us a better sense of what that number is and uh how many times you've had to uh deny request uh and the reason that you have to do so.
▶ 0:35:53Representative uh I'll start by saying the COCOM demand for special operations forces is up and I'm sure you've heard that from the combatant commanders that come before you. I think for a number of reasons in deterrence first they know that the highest value proposition in some sense that soft provides is prior to conflict.
▶ 0:36:12the things we do to prevent building relationships, developing access basing and overflight, uh providing indications and warnings along with everything we're doing to prepare in the event that worst day comes, closing kill webs or kill chains or sensor systems, giving uh cocom commanders options and opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have and presenting a whole bunch of dilemmas and challenges to an adversary they wouldn't have.
▶ 0:36:38I think that's why we see the demand going up and that comes in the form of asking for special forces teams, marine raider teams, NSW teams, command and control elements, ABSOC and that's that 35% increase. To your point on where we've had to say no, uh I'll give you a number. Last December in one of the global force management tanks, I had to say no 41 times to request just like that. Hurt my heart. It's a high compliment that this soft team is that value proposition to the entire department.
▶ 0:37:09We couldn't do it. And we couldn't do it. My sense, and I'll wind this down for you, is two reasons. There's certainly a capability and capacity piece against the great humans that do that work. And as you know, we've been reduced in the past couple years by up to 5,000. But there's also now a fiscal constraint that's pulling at us based on an increasingly uh uh decreasing topline. a decreasing topline uh that now comes into play.
▶ 0:37:35So at times even if I could put the person out there fiscally uh the cost is prohibitive and I'll pause here represent. Thank you sir. I appreciate that. We're going to do our best to fix that. Uh Secretary Jenkins um SOCOM's budget has been relatively flat for the past decade. Uh in your combined written statement it is it's it is less than 2% of the budget and one of the few DoD organizations that has not seen an increase. although overall budget has increased significantly.
▶ 0:38:04Uh how are you using your service like secretary position to campaign for a higher budget uh for SOCOM and how much do you think SOCOM Well, thank you chairman. We we love those kind of questions. So thank you very much. In my service-like capacity, it is very much my my responsibility in road two campaign to keep those sharp elbows out so that I can advocate on behalf of of our soft enterprise.
▶ 0:38:25And just just last week, we had the opportunity to brief the new deputy secretary of defense and had a very warm reception in terms of examining what we would have to propose for 8% cuts because every every uh organization's being asked to propose those and we we found a good reception in terms of we want to keep you whole the best that we can. So, it's our our responsibility to make sure that we interact with our service counterparts. That's where we see uh maybe danger is a strong word, but that's when they consider cuts.
▶ 0:38:54There are so many downstream effects to us that aren't often taken into account when when the Army considers a cut or the Navy or so forth. So, that's where we really hedge our our our uh and defend our budget so that we make sure when services are defending are proposing other cuts, we can step in early or before and make sure that we guard our equities as well. So, it's an ongoing campaign. Uh we have a regular warfare out against our adversaries and we also run uh similar regular warfare within within the department to protect our our equities.
▶ 0:39:24Do you have any idea what that number looks like? I I don't know the top number just yet. It hasn't been identified. I have to to leave that to the to the deputy and the comproller as well. Um but I know that those are actively being considered right now. Okay. Thank you. My time is essentially up here. So uh I'm going to yield and recognize ranking member Crow. Thank you chairman. Just picking up on that question. uh stream. If there were if you were forced to make in 8% cuts, what would that look like?
▶ 0:39:52Just kind of paint a picture here. Well, I'm I'm not a doctor, but if I was, it would be cutting into bone. We are already lean and efficient, and we try to be good stewards of everything, every penny that that we gratefully receive. Um but but we have to be conscious of of of making sure it's always a good exercise to examine our resources and make sure that we're posturing for the next the future war and not fighting the last war. There's no fat and so there's no fat. You're you're lean and mean as you're supposed to be. Yes.
▶ 0:40:22Uh so cutting into that is cutting into valuable resources and support. Correct. Cutting right into the bone for sure. And so we we we're doing our best to avoid that at all costs. Right. General Fenton, you know, we we've had a number of conversations about acquisition and rapid fielding capability. So, I wanted to uh talk about that publicly on the record a little bit.
▶ 0:40:41Uh talk to me about the importance of giving you new authorities that would allow you to go commercial to just rapidly speed up the acquisition process so we could field new Uh representative, I think a couple thank you for having those discussions with us. certainly planted a lot of ideas in uh in our team and I I hope did the same with yours.
▶ 0:41:03I'd start by saying I think when I talk about modernization some folks may and transformation lots of times folks think technology only of course you know as with people as a number one priority we start there then we talk about technology but we also add authorities in there and I think on this piece this is a modernization that is I think long overdue.
▶ 0:41:24Uh the reason I give it uh in that way I think about it our current acquisition procurement system and I mean no harm to everybody that's been a part of that but I would just offer it's outdated it's glacial I think it works in years and decades and probably rightly so for some of the highest ticket items aircraft carrier bomber or fighter but what we're seeing through the lens of Ukraine needs to be an acquisition site uh and procurement system that is uh hypers speed supersonic because over there we're watching the changes in
▶ 0:41:54minutes, hours and days. And that is a very stark contrast different. I came in 1987, I was using Vietnam era gear because that was a generational acquisition procurement process. That would be unacceptable today. So I think starting with that and then acknowledging it's probably a reflection of requirements, processes that need to be modified, updated, those authorities changed. If I could say it so bluntly, take more people out of that system.
▶ 0:42:22get less hands on the requirements process, go from operator to commander and then acquisition. And one way would be to allow co-comms and others directly downrange performing the mission to Yep. to create those requirements. That's right. And then buckets of money. I think that's a challenge. There's a lot I I call them handcuffs against the striated on and m rdtn and uh procurement pots. I think there's a way to take a lot of that off, compress the multiple lines to just a couple and really modernize there.
▶ 0:42:53And then I think lastly, as I think about the requirements process, certainly the buckets of time give us multi give us an opportunity to think through multi-year processes. So two years might seem multi-year. I think to all of us multi-year probably needs to be five to 10 years so we can move at the speed and evolution of what we're seeing out on the battlefield.
▶ 0:43:13La last piece, my own combat experience underscored for me the importance of protecting civilians, doing everything possible to minimize civilian casualties because not only is that efficient, you know, less use of ammunition, more focus on the adversary, um less distraction, but it's actually there's a moral imperative to make sure that we're leading with our values, we're fighting with our values. Uh we we created a couple of years ago on a bipartisan basis the the armed services committee that created the civilian protection center of excellence.
▶ 0:43:44Uh could you speak very briefly in your own experience as to the importance of making sure that civilians are protected in the conduct of our missions and what that means for you as an operator. Representative I I think you uh you laid it out pretty clearly. I think it's a strategic obligation.
▶ 0:44:01you called it a moral obligation to accomplish the mission and especially when we're talking about high-end kinetics of of eliminating the threat yet also making sure that we protect non-combatants uh civilians vulnerable population because that sends a very different message that we are the United States of America will do the mission get the bad guys so to speak but protect those around it and I think that differentiates us from the adversaries we're watching in motion right now I think the other piece it sends is a message to the civilian population
▶ 0:44:32in that nation that we are absolutely there to do uh the missions against bad actors or bad things but in many many ways to be the United States of America that they know to be and and s sending diplomatic message that you know we're we're here to reassure or assure and I think you can do that in the way that you certainly so approaches kinetic operations. Thank you to you both. I'm out of time. I yield back. Thank you Mr. O or Mr. Scott. You're recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Uh, Mr.
▶ 0:45:01Chairman and gentlemen, thank you for being here. I'm going to have to slip to a rules committee meeting as soon as I ask the questions, but I want to mention this and you don't have to comment on it, but I uh, General Fenton, the 18X program, uh, my experience with it is people that we've tried to help get in the Genesis program has pushed out and I think the Genesis program would be more appropriately named the Exodus program. Most of the people that we would want in special forces are going to have a career in athletics.
▶ 0:45:28uh that means they're going to have an injury somewhere along the way and yet the Genesis program seeks through every line of their medical history and if they find any little thing they they force them out. So some way somehow we've got to find the balance between getting the uh the right people in the 18X program and um getting them around the Genesis program.
▶ 0:45:51Um, with that said, the president and I believe rightfully so designated the cartels as foreign organizations and uh they have direct he has directed our military force to support securing our southern border. My question gets to uh your authorities and operations and how they have shifted to address this foreign terrorist threat from the cartels. I can just start from the the general authority.
▶ 0:46:14So as as a designation of FTO, that does not grant us any new authorities, but it it it definitely unlocks our ability to work better with our whole of government approach. You think of terms of counter threat finance and how we can better more efficiently pass off those target packets, if you will, to law law enforcement. Um, but at the end of the day, it helps us across the force reinforce that border security is national security and we will be ready to defend and provide options to the president if he so chooses. But but that's where we stand in terms of authorities.
▶ 0:46:44Want to add anything to that? Yeah, representative, I' I'd say I double down on border security is national security and I've mentioned in my opening statement, you know, our part of defend the homeland if I look at it through the lens of counterterrorism first really starts at our border and goes out across the globe.
▶ 0:46:59Um I would offer I double down that you know we've got no new authorities or directions u as the uh sec uh secretary Jenkins mentioned and then but priority and focus certainly has changed and I think in that effort you've seen an uplift of SOCOM teammates to Sock North Special Operations Command North working with General Guu and Northcom in order to put together the plans uh assessments and various other documents and opportunities that are required by the SECF and by the
▶ 0:47:29Well, the uh the 2% of the defense budget and and how much you're called on has been addressed a lot. So, I'll skip over that other than say this. I think you'll see the members of this subcommittee working to make sure that uh that that is addressed. And I do think that the new secretary will look um upon that.
▶ 0:47:45And um so you talked a little bit about intelligence um and you've talked a little bit about drones and how um drone warfare in Ukraine has changed really the the face of war. How how are you working with um the outside industry to develop uh how we are going to protect ourselves from drones?
▶ 0:48:12I can just say just briefly then talk to the details of just to re reassure or validate what you what you said. Sir, we I hosted a partner leader in my office a few weeks ago that's over there and and he reinforced that if if you think you're at the cutting edge of battle and you haven't been to Ukraine, then then you're wrong. And so we we are actively taking the lessons that we learned there that that require us to innovate daily if not hourly to adapt and build solutions on the spot that can be employed the next day instead of weeks and months down the road.
▶ 0:48:42We are definitely taking those lessons and applying them to Indopaccom and elsewhere. But in terms do you want to talk to the details of that? Thank you representative. I think the heart of your question when we look at Ukraine I think we come away with what I'd call strategic lesson symmetry versus asymmetry. When I think about symmetry, that's the things that all nations have that are military fighting nations for their worst day. Artillery, aircraft carriers, bombers, fighters, and they need it.
▶ 0:49:08Asymmetry, I think, is where in this conflict, it's showing itself as a 10x, 100x helpful to a cost imposition. And I think when we look at that certainly through the lens of special operations command and put it out figuratively in a ledger symmetry versus asymmetry our sense is the asymmetry side of the house uh is not where we need to be in many ways it's probably missing drones of any kind AI autonomy added manufacturing to your point that is now the purview in many of those of the
▶ 0:49:38commercial and the private sector we are absolutely involved with them in many many different ways personally going out and meeting them listening to the things they're seeing providing some of our observations and lesson loans from Ukraine so that those things can be blended. We have tech pods uh two or three folks that are in New York, Boston corridor, Austin, Texas, Silicon Valley and we have all kind of ways for folks to come see us at SOCOM to talk to us about that because we know that that we've got to get busy and changing that ledger.
▶ 0:50:09We got to start filling that thing in with asymmetric anything. hundreds of thousands of air uncrrewed systems, maritime surface, subsurface and I would just offer as I end this that also takes money and I think as we think modernization that's one of the things that you know we're really talking about here we're transferring risk uh into modernization and deterrence and that risk in my mind is winning in the future. I think that that's the challenge right now and that will be part of winning those uncrrewed systems and AI and certainly autonomy.
▶ 0:50:38Well, I'm glad the leash is off and I hope that you get some money to to uh get the equipment that you need. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Scott. Mr. Cisneros, you're recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank our witnesses for being here today.
▶ 0:50:53As a former USD of PNR, I feel like I have to defend Genesis in the sense of what it does and and the fact that it does give a picture of looking at the whole medical thing, but it is the services, not Genesis that decides what is acceptable medically and what is not. But with that, um, being the former USDPR, readiness was part of my portfolio and training fell under under that. So my first question, General Fenton, is going to be about training.
▶ 0:51:21And there was a GAO report um that came out that said most training accidents are a result of human error. And concerningly, SOCOM lacks the funding to fully implement the training oversight program. So, does SOCOM have any plan to conduct any analysis of negative negative safety trends or re-evaluate training assessment programs since it was reported that 80% of non-combat incidents come from training?
▶ 0:51:49Representative, I I'll start by saying first any accident in training or uh worse yet a death uh is absolutely not what we're we're we're all about. We are about um rigorous uh arduous training so that if in the event some of our teammates go into combat that combat is easier than the training they've seen and the training we will do over and over again.
▶ 0:52:12I would uh take take a little bit of um umbrage or maybe even dispute with the fact that we don't do continual assessments of the safety at our various training courses. We do we have a lot of training courses assessment selection for our army teammates, air force teammates, marine teammates, navy teammates and those are looked at consistently usually by what I would call an outer corridor of medical safety uh very very experienced civilian personnel to to to continue to
▶ 0:52:42um address that. uh that's our sacred obligation to the the moms and dads to send us their their sons and daughters for these kind of standardsbased training and we do that. So I think we're always in that motion. Uh we we continually strive to have the very hardest training we can while protecting the teammates that are u certainly the national treasure sent to us by this nation.
▶ 0:53:06Do you but do you have the funding that you need in order to implement the training oversight programs and do ensuring that the safety of the training is is at max capacity there? uh representative first I'll start no um I talk about it in terms of modernization and I think as I laid out in the opening statement we'll continue to come back to uh training and training exercises along with modernizing authorities modernizing technology and when I talk about people certainly I start with humans more important
▶ 0:53:36than hardware long held special uh operations command truth and education for uncertainty is part of modernization and that's our humans we absolutely need more money to make sure we're doing that and keeping up especially as we make our training exercises not our assessment selection processes more complex more complicated so that we emulate what we're actually seeing on the environment now integrated air and missile defense it's no longer just about OPSAC and distance now it's almost
▶ 0:54:06pure adversary systems everywhere so I think absolutely representative no well thank you and I understand I mean the training like you said the job and the missions that your uh your service members go out and have to do they need to train at optimum levels. So, but we need to make sure and I I think I don't want to speak for the committee, but I will do what I can to ensure that you have the funding to ensure that you have the safety standards that you need to ensure that it's safe. Thank you. Um Mr. Jenkins, just uh one question for you here, sir.
▶ 0:54:35Um, you know, Congress created like the special operation forces there to kind of almost make it like another service, but yet it's not really another service because, you know, you're not like a you're not in the acting role as a service chief. You're really kind of I think at a assistant secretary level there, right?
▶ 0:54:55So, do you feel that the fact that they've kind of taken this and kind of put it in there and started this off there away from the services that that has kind of had an effect on the funding as to maybe why the services may not be funding this or it's not getting funded at the level because you're not at an equal level and yet the services don't have control over this anymore. So, they're not putting in the assets that they used to.
▶ 0:55:20uh perhaps you've landed on some some key points there and we we were grateful to Congress that that Solic exists so that we do have those service-like capabilities. Um I do wear two hats where I am a service-like uh uh adviser to the seaf but I'm also a policy adviser.
▶ 0:55:35So, it's a unique ASD ship as you said and and so so yes, we are constantly keeping our elbow sharp, making sure that we're at the correct tables with our service counterparts and that as they ponder cuts, we can defend our own equities and and make sure that they understand a cut here in the army affects Army soft down here or a cut in the Navy affects naval special warfare as well. So, we we certainly are grateful for Congress, the reinforcement that we receive. All right, I yield back. I'm out of time. Thank you, sir. Mr. Latrell, you're now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:56:06Thank you all for coming this morning and for everybody in here in uniform and veterans. Thank you for your service. General preservation of force is one of the things that I I really focus in on as a member of Congress. And it's not you kind of roll the tape back. Um it's not something necessarily we we the shooters necessarily concentrate on.
▶ 0:56:28I think it's more of the force that needs to apply that kind of those those spaces to to the special operations community. And we have subject matter experts in the in in the special forces community. We have dietitians, nutritionists, we have exercise scientists, we have a myriad of professionals that outline everything for our operators.
▶ 0:56:52But yet when th this information is provided to those operators, they have to go out and buy those supplements and those nutrients and and everything to for that sustainment and that sustainment process um with their own money. And I wholeheartedly now disagree with that. I think that that should be something that is provided by the community. Uh, I'd like to get your thoughts on that and and and see and see um, you know, and get your stance because it's downstream that I'm also worried about.
▶ 0:57:21Once the operators, they exit the military and they they start the next chapter in their life. We want to make sure that they they have the ability to move forward and they don't end up bald, broken with beards and just say my name. I had to, sir, I want that on the record. I don't want to look in that direction. Yeah. Okay. But you know where I'm kind of going.
▶ 0:57:40It's sir sir uh thank you I'll start with I do want to thank uh this congress and many who came before those who come after for the pot of program that that that's huge uh inside of an organization that's people as our number one priority because they are competitive and comparative advantage and in plain language they're the weapon system and I think when you think about it that way we look at it through the lens of human performance vice maybe what standards would else
▶ 0:58:10elsewhere for just wellness and and I think when we go to human performance you you're uh alumni representative of what we do it's a science-based approach to how we work out which is very different than maybe 20 30 years ago nutrition absolutely as you said we know that's a key part sleep it's everything and we're blessed that that's part of our our ecosystem I think on the nutrition side we do have the greatest nutritionist dieticians they come from the sports the high-end athletic community
▶ 0:58:40and they're they're they're taking it like tactical athletes that we are. I think in that point they talk to us quite a bit about upping our game through either third party certified supplements uh in a way that they can account for. We absolutely want to protect our forest, put anything in the forest that is uh at long-term endangerment. Uh but these are assessed and and checked I think supplements third party certified and sports foods things that help continue to up the performance.
▶ 0:59:08uh unlike what maybe our adversaries are doing when they're experimenting on each other and doing things that we absolutely would not do to any of our teammates. U so I I I I absolutely think that's something we need to consider and would certainly look for your support on that. Thank you. And so Mr. Jenkins, when you're chatting with the Secretary of Defense, um if you would be so kind to bring this point to him that hey, this he knows this.
▶ 0:59:34I've had this conversation with him, but I want this to resonate not only from the committee, but to the leadership and the DoD that um this is an area that needs to be filled. This is a gap. This is a gap that we shouldn't have any longer. Um yeah, you bet. And as you know, our SEC def members are his first priority. You see him doing PT with them at every turn he's he's engaging. So definitely that that would be top of mind. Okay.
▶ 0:59:59When it comes to preventive maintenance, and I like to focus in on traumatic brain injury and and I want to make sure that the the the are, you know, we're gift we're innovative creative thinkers and we adapt very well.
▶ 1:00:15I want to make sure that we're we're concentrating on things that we can carry with us on the battlefield for preventive maintenance, but post blast medical procedures, whether or not we're talking about blast packs or I I don't want that to kind of take a take get back on its heels and stall out any. So, I know that you and I have had this conversation quite a bit, but I just I need you to hear me say this and I like you can respond to that if you like. I want to give you a commitment right back. I appreciate you saying I want to double down.
▶ 1:00:44U I would just pull a thread from the last conversation. I think some of these third party supplements and I I probably don't know them by name also have uh efficacy against TBI and other things that our nutritionists have looked at. So I think there's a a threat to be pulled in there. I double down on my commitment to you.
▶ 1:01:04We will not back up on either the TBI side which we when we talk about it as acute brain injury or even the repeat exposure to blast which is a chronic piece that I hope many of you got to see me talk about on on 60 minutes and reinforce SOCOM's commitment to that. So you have my commitment to both of those. Representative. Thank you sir. BS. Thank you Mr. Jacobs. You're recognized for five minutes. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Uh thank you General Fenton and Mr. Jenkins for being here.
▶ 1:01:31Um first I just want to um thank you for uh your great comments on the importance of addressing civilian harm. I know that there's some conversations in the administration about shutting down the center of excellence and so I appreciate how forcefully you've advocated for the importance of addressing this issue. Um I also just wanted um to to make sure I uh we get on the record.
▶ 1:01:55Um, I know you said the foreign terrorist organization designation of the Mexican drug cartels does not give you any new authorizations. Is that accurate? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And uh, are there any planning or preparations for military occurring within Mexico? Ma'am, I I can't speak to active ongoing discussions, but but it is our sacred obligation to make sure that we are prepared and ready to provide options for the president should he decide. Okay.
▶ 1:02:25And uh given that the FTO designation does not give you additional authorities, is it your understanding that before any potential use of military force in Mexico, you would need to come back to Congress for explicit congressional authorization? Ma'am, that would that would fall to our commander-in-chief and and the engagement between the executive branch and Congress. So, yes, ma'am. I would I would think there would be discussion there. Okay. Excellent. Um General Fenton, I wanted to ask you about Africa.
▶ 1:02:53Um the record of soft operations in Africa has been mixed right we've had some tactical successes some uh you know evident strategic outcomes uh such as stability governance and lasting reduction in extremist activity remain elusive um and we've seen in Somalia and the Sahel um so given these outcomes how is SOCOM adjusting its approach to ensure that future engagements yield more sustainable results and avoid unintended consequences such as inadvertently
▶ 1:03:23contributing to regional instability. Representative, um I'll start by saying that when I when I look at uh partnerships wherever they may be and certainly through the lens of SOCOM as premier partner organization and the way that our components and our theater special operations command do it. I I probably take a bit of a long-term view maybe all the way back to the 1950s when special forces and then our Mars, ABSOC, NSW teams all started.
▶ 1:03:51So I think the the record is mostly on the upside in terms of partnership across the globe. I'd probably say the same thing in Africa and I think that's attributable to when there are uh challenges. I think we're an incredibly fast learning organization. What we do to address them in terms of maybe it's how we vet differently if we're talking about certain type of forces. It could be uh about authorities we need modernized so that we can move faster and then meet the partner nations demand.
▶ 1:04:19I think all of those really go towards at some point we have a common interest. We want to go from some level of burden sharing to burden owning by uh that nation at some point them leading in that burden. And I think to do that we're always going to learn lessons but I can commit to you that we're always bringing them back in a virtuous cycle to our force and then instructing them in an institutionalized way and then doing all over again. Um that's really helpful.
▶ 1:04:43Um what do you think the lessons are then from some of the sort of strategic failures we've had in the Sahel? Um so I don't know that soft has had strategic failures just to be on the record myself. Uh I think there there certainly strategic lessons to be learned.
▶ 1:05:00I think the first one if I could give uh is uh we need to do more information operations and this is not only in SOCOM it's probably the department of defense it's probably across the uh inter agency um that information operation void in many ways I think allowed adversaries to get in there and um mistruths untruths falsities put a different narrative based on their view of the world what they wanted and mostly uh the great work we've done for years so I think information operations is number one silent Silence is
▶ 1:05:30consent. If we're not informing and we're not leveraging that as a traditional activity, I think we're seen space. Probably the second one is uh an opportunity to really understand the other partners there beside just that nation. So partners from across the globe and what are their agendas and I think we get better that at each time. Those would be the two that I'd put against the backdrop of Africa. Thank you. Um Mr. Mr. Jenkins, anything you wanted to add about um sock uh soft operations in Africa?
▶ 1:06:00We want to make sure that our there are three primary lines of effort that we're focusing on. Defend the homeland, uh deter China, and make sure that we shift burdens to our allies and partners. So, anything that affects those three lines of effort, if we see threats emanating from West Africa, otherwise we need to take every opportunity we can to to mitigate that. Thank you, though. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Against my better judgment, Mr. Van Orton, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:06:28I notice that my colleague from Texas abandoned his post knowing that I have the microphone next. Um, I just want to emphasize something, Mr. Jenkins, that you mentioned. And you've we've had this discussion. You've had this discussion. Mr. Cineros brought it up. Um the Army Special Forces Green Brays are named after a hat and the seals are named after how we go to work, right? Sea, air, and land. Those are the methods of infiltration for us to accomplish a mission.
▶ 1:06:56And when general purpose forces cut these platforms, we simply can't go to work. And um it would be interesting to know what is your coordination process with general purpose forces when they're speaking about cutting these platforms? I mean is there a formalized processor? There are there are different and thank you for calling that out because that is very much right in our bayook where we need to defend our equities.
▶ 1:07:20Um there are different processes DMAGs, RMAGs uh where we are able to sit with our services with other representatives from comproller in the deputy's office where where proposals can be put forward and we can we can battle back. We can defend or help. In the spirit of bipartisanship, bring up Mr. Ciner's point. Um, when you sit at the table, I mean, are you at the kid table at Thanksgiving or are you like sitting with everybody and you're pulling your weight?
▶ 1:07:46Meaning, does your does your um assessment have value in these scenarios when you're speaking about cutting, you know, multi-billion dollar multi-year platforms? We certainly have to it's a constant struggle to make sure that our stay sharp. Okay. But, but we are at, for example, just last week, I was sitting two chairs down from the deputy briefing our budget, our soft budget. Okay. And had the full room to our to our attention and and and support. So we but but but but to your point, we have it's a constant struggle.
▶ 1:08:13It's a it's a different culture to to think of soft. Oh, I know. As as a service. So that's why we appreciate Congress's support so that we are there. Very well. Thank you. And I'm sorry I'm remiss for not recognizing the mass chief and CSM here. Thanks for coming here, boys. It's good to see you. Um less than 2% of the DoD budget is spent on soft operations. Correct. Uh everyone here I think everyone at least over here has done uh joint combined exercise for training.
▶ 1:08:41Um sometimes we would call that training tomorrow's enemies today and we have a proven track record of training people that we should not. Everything from the school of Americas in the 70s and uh you know we trained the Taliban armed them equipped them did all this stuff. we've created our own enemies and so I'm wondering what percentage of the soft budget is used for the J set programs. Well, I don't know that specific number off the top of my head, but we can get back to you. I would appreciate that tremendously.
▶ 1:09:10And then along with that, so I I have two tasks for you, two bits of homework because you're not going to know the answer to this one either. Um, so and that's not a I'm not imputing your your knowledge. I'm just saying this is kind of a detailed question. So, I'd like to know what percentage of the soft budget is used for Jets. I also want would like to know what percentage of the soft budget is used for the soft skills that are on smoke bomb hill when we're talking about nation building stuff. I understand you're going to cut some of your SCOPS guys. I agree with that completely.
▶ 1:09:39So if you could get it, you know, on a piece of paper and tell us how much of our budget is soft budget is being expended for the soft skills for nation building which we have done horribly across the world since Vietnam honestly and then what percentage specifically for Jets that would be awesome. We'll do. Yeah. Thank you sir.
▶ 1:10:01Uh General Fenton um you understand your component commanders start with a operational O andM deficit every year I do, sir. And so our guys are filling out EUR's unfunded requests on on the regular just to be able to to do their job. Yep. Correct. Yes, sir. Okay. So, here's what I'd like from you, sir.
▶ 1:10:19Um, what I would like is by component commander, what is the delta between what they're given every year and then the total of the efforts on average? Let's say a five-year average.
▶ 1:10:34so that we under this chairman's leadership can hopefully plus up all the on andm budgets for our special operations forces component we'll do give us real numbers you you you'll get real numbers and representative if I might so take infraction uh just on jets just I think on on one side of the coin yeah you know those also there's many of our teammates and not build nations but those J sets go against building high-end tier one forces in a lot of those countries that
▶ 1:11:05have stayed with General. I'm the longest serving enlisted member of the United States military to ever be elected to Congress and I also have the most years as a special operations forces operative of any member of Congress in the history of the country. I know exactly what the hell I'm talking about, sir. Rod that represent I just add that many of those become security exporters.
▶ 1:11:20So I I think if we pegged out a track record and I probably owe you that on where those have not just been nation building and and somehow turned enemy but have gone on to burden share to bird know to to lead and I think those are great stories and I could talk about them in close that I we ought not to forget about. Thank you general I appreciate it. I yield back. Thanks representative. Mr. Herrian you're recognized for five minutes. Thank you Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thanks for your testimony this morning. It's good to see both of you.
▶ 1:11:48Uh, General Fenton, I had the opportunity to spend the weekend down with General Baraga at USA. And one of the things that we were talking about is um that's that concerned me greatly is that the Green Beretss are are currently only producing about half the number that they are attritting each year uh through separation or retirement. What What are we doing across the force specifically?
▶ 1:12:13That's a conversation about the green berets, but what are we doing across the force to make sure that we are actually replacing the number of special operators that we need? Uh, representative, uh, I'll start by saying first we maintain the standards, right? And as I look at that, uh, it's a challenge to get a production that in some days I think if we're talking about SF enlisted, I think the requirement General Brocker probably talked about 825.
▶ 1:12:42When the force overall shrinks, um, that certainly shrinks down our input pipeline and we're not going to adjust the standards. And we've had this conversation with the Secretary of Defense who is all about lethality and war fighting. And I talked a bit about production rates and I think at the very end he said maintain the standards. Roger that. Now that isn't don't do other work to try to get more in the pipeline. So I think with uh some level of force size reduction in the army, we're talking about the army here.
▶ 1:13:10That is a challenge of who wants to come in the pipeline. I will offer that we've tried to amp up our 18 x-ray program which has been and hopefully General Bragg explained this to you has been a really good program. It's about 3,000 folks who otherwise would not come into the army coming in off the street going through infantry basic training, advanced training and uh going through uh SFAS in the qualification course and that 3,000 about 800 make it.
▶ 1:13:36So there's about 2,200 as we're enforcing the standard that go back to the army and serve in all kind of entry units and do well. I do think there's a way we could amp that up not only for the good of the green berets which are part of the joint force but also to bring in additional folks into the army who would otherwise not even think about the army unless they were coming towards special operations. So we got the same type of contracts with ranger contracts. So I think there's a lot out there we're trying to do but I think it all goes against we will absolutely maintain the standards.
▶ 1:14:05We've had a recent audit and uh that audit from the department of defense has come back that we're we're maintaining the standards. So I think we got some challenges. Yeah. Thanks, General, for that and thank you for maintaining the standards. It's incredibly important. And uh I'd like to take the rest of my time and and talk about drones. Mr. Jenkins, you talked about uh we need to be actively taking lessons and innovate uh from current conflicts. General, you talked about a supersonic acquisition and procurement process.
▶ 1:14:34Uh that we're moving at a glacial pace, that we have an outdated Um, and you also said that we're still at the talking stage with industry with respect to small drones. Representative, no. Uh, we're well in discussion. I just wanted to make sure that folks understand, maybe I was, uh, I misstated. We are in constant discussion with small and mediumsiz companies that are in this business. And in many ways, we have some of their product already.
▶ 1:15:03So, we're not just talking, we're actually doing. Okay. We need to do more. I I appreciate that because I was I was a little concerned by the statement uh thinking we need to move a little bit faster and soft. Roger. So we are absolutely but I'm never happy. Absolutely. I want to go speedier so I won't be complacent but we're well in the thick of this.
▶ 1:15:21One of the lessons that I have picked up from Ukraine is that their production process of how they're manufacturing these FPV drones, which as we have discovered are responsible for 80% of the Russian casualties on the front lines, these are be become a very very important and transformational technology on the battlefield is that they have somewhat of a hybrid mechanism of production. Uh some outside industry, some internal.
▶ 1:15:48Are you open to the possibility that in order to actually create this capability at scale that part of that effort may actually need to be done organically within the force given all the frustrations and constraints that we have with our defense industrial base and our acquisition process at this I absolutely am represent. I think we're we're already doing it throughout all the soft.
▶ 1:16:14We've got incredible folks who come in who not only want to shoot, move, communicate, do combives, get after the what I call the soft basics that are the the baseline. They're all into putting this stuff together and getting it out in a homemade way and doing them and the hundreds. I think our challenge is at some point to scale that there's probably a a private sector piece that's got to come in. But I think in many ways we're doing that. Uh we need to be able to scale that and we want to scale more. Thank you.
▶ 1:16:43If I could just double down that that costs money too. That costs money. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you chairman. Thank you Mr. Ryan. You're recognized for five minutes. Uh thank you Mr. Chair. I know we have a hard stop so I'll uh if you need to cut me off that's fine. I was late. Um uh thank you both for being here. Thank you for all the work you're doing and have done.
▶ 1:17:00I want to pick up on what you said, General Fenton, earlier about IO and the both the importance and opportunity and frankly the really the high ROI we get on doing IO versus cost of a lot of other things we've talked about today. Um, and specifically within that realm, I want to focus on MISO and and Indo, you know, MISO within the Indopaccom AO. I'm pretty sure you guys are still sort of the designated as the joint proponent for MISO across across the joint force.
▶ 1:17:28Um, as I've heard from various folks across um, the force, while there's continued investment in this area, um, we're still seeing that across the different uh, components and T-OCS, there's a pretty wide variety of, uh, capability and specifically tech tools and data that's available um, from from Tox to Tox.
▶ 1:17:48Have you guys looked at standardizing tools across the force for MISO um so that um kind of co-comanders can better plan and and sort of know what they're going to get? I can just talk policy real quick at within so we have the information operation policy uh office that that sits in oversight of all the IO MISO plans across all the command and command.
▶ 1:18:10So, so that's a tremendous tool to make sure that our messages are synced, that we're in coordinating with our inter agency partners as well, which in the past was not necessarily the case. We had IO messages going across each other and so synchronization is is working at the policy level, but then down to the tactical level. Do you want to expound on that? Thank you.
▶ 1:18:28I I'll just hit the part of we are trying to make that a balance as you mentioned because we want folks to continue to innovate and then there's a balance between standardization and I think we're always looking at that representative in the right way through softsiz so we don't suffocate in innovation which is for the here and now modernization for tomorrow but I would offer that where I see standardization because I don't have the modernization money I'm unable to scale it almost back to the previous discussion so I think that's a challenge if we find something
▶ 1:18:58we want to bring across all the theater special ops commands that cost that that takes funds and I think in that arena that u that that's those are many of the other things of modernization we're not able to do yeah and I just want to reiterate that I think that's one of the smartest and and frankly lowest dollar investments we could make that will provide huge leverage in terms of when you have identified those come back to us so that we can figure out how to how to help you scale that across.
▶ 1:19:22Um, I know just uh big uh only have two minutes, but I want to pick up also on what I've heard um as I came in around this idea of sort of burden sharing and and shifting the burden. I've heard that used a lot now in the last few months. Um but I don't really know what we're what we're talking about there. Can can you either of you or both of you with the time we have expand on that?
▶ 1:19:43I'm frankly I'm concerned about that given I feel like that could mean we're backing away from critical uh partnerships that you all have and your your forces have built through blood, sweat, and tears over many many decades. Maybe I'm wrong. Can you help me understand that? Yeah, I'll just brief uh start high and then we'll go down to the the weeds.
▶ 1:20:01Uh ju just from my own personal experience for example working in Colombia as part of plan Colombia working by with and through our partners there foreign internal defense that that's core to our our uh our mission building that partner nation capacity allows us as a nation to build partners that are fully No, not to interrupt you. I understand that. That's what I'm saying. I want to make sure we continue. We're not backing away from partners.
▶ 1:20:24We're just making sure that those partners that have capability and capacity can now operate on their own a little bit more efficiently and then we can have priorities of and I just well go ahead General first I'll happy to cover a really detailed one in the close session representative if you there and then I'll double down on Secretary Jenkins we're not backing away I think it's a key part of who SOCOM is. It's in our DNA to be a premier partner for us right now. Almost 7,000 folks across 80 different countries persistently present.
▶ 1:20:53U and uh I think that's that's the way we do business. Thank you. I I commend that. I agree. And I just want to make sure that is the message that we are sending loud and clear and I appreciate you saying that and that ask that the others in the administration continue to reiterate that we're not backing away from those uh critical partnerships. and and representative I'd be uh derelict in my duties if I didn't say and that cost of that is also going up. Yep.
▶ 1:21:17You know the price to have somebody out there doing that which I think is a global sensor provides opportunities and advantages to cocoms the the price of sustaining the humans when I come out of the Middle East has gone up exponentially. So those are risk trade-offs we make. Won't mean we're backing away from partners might mean the fiscal constraints plus the personnel piece put us in a place we can't do it. Thank you. and yield back. Mr. Chair, thank you. Uh, with this, we're just going to close the open session here. We're going to immediately reconvene in 2337 for the classified session.
▶ 1:21:47Just want to say before we leave, thank you gentlemen for your time today. I want to say thank you to everyone in the audience uh that is in uniform for your service. We all recognize that uh the sacrifice of you and your families uh that in in the value that we get from that you're protecting our country and and we want to just say thank you. So, with that, we're adjourned.