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▶ 0:18:47morning subcommittee will come to order I want to thank our Witnesses for being here today to discuss the transition assistance program and the role that each one of these departments plays um in helping our service members transition from being active duty service member a productive member of the military to a productive member of society as a civilian I want to make sure that we uh adhere to our strict nonpartisan um position the spirit of this committee and I know Mr Papa shares my intention there he's a good
▶ 0:19:17man um as a former seal I served our country for 26 years and I firstand knowledge of how difficult it can be to go from being a military member to being a civilian and I'm not kidding I used to wake up for like 2 years after I retired wondering where my gun was that that's not a joke uh so 200,000 military personnel leave the service each year and for many of them um it's a time for them to grow it's also a time that 24mth period of time is when our service members
▶ 0:19:47want to committing suicide because they lose their identity they lose their uniform they lose their rank the joke with the spouses that are uh twice the husband and half the paycheck and um you all know that I see these old Grizzly war dogs back there you know what I'm talking about right yeah so um we got to do something the bridging mechanism has to start while we're in the service and Mr bar you're here today from the dod and I can't tell you how thankful I am
▶ 0:20:18and I also can't tell you how pathetic it is that I have to be so thankful that you guys showed up check that's how these committees work so thank you for being here I don't know if it's cuz I'm on askk and I got your paycheck now too I don't know I don't care you're here and I appreciate it so uh we went from about 25% to 52% so so that that is an an extraordinarily huge failure rate for the people like go to tap that's real and we got uh got everybody's
▶ 0:20:48fit reps here we're going to talk about this a little bit later fit reps and oars and whatever there's no block on here for um participation of troops that go to task it's 175 page document it's like 150 pages into a 175 page document from the Navy it mentions tap in a single sentence so what what our what my intention is is to make this work and I spoke to these three folks yesterday in my office in private and I appreciate you guys
▶ 0:21:18showing up to do that so we could work through some things in long form interview not like this but uh I I do appreciate that but but we can do better period we need to have metrics so we understand if we're doing better and I expect that out of you um so 2019 we worked to modernize the tap program I think we did sort of a good job I wasn't here at the time were you in Congress then yes you okay so it's Mr Pap's fault just kidding
▶ 0:21:49um we did we did an okay job and we didn't do the best job and I I get it so uh we got 48% of service members that aren't beginning the process of tap in advance 48% gentlemen ladies and that's unacceptable and we're just going to do better last year I introduced the ETS act to hold DOD accountable and that's the department what I've learned from being here is I can't hold a department or an office accountable but I want to hold individual officers accountable
▶ 0:22:19make sure that they do not get promoted they don't pass go they don't get 200 bucks if there people aren't going to tap we start burning these people down with h shoulder boards it'll be fixed immediately and that is my intent so with that I'd like to yield to my ranking member Mr papis for any comments he may have thank you very much Mr chairman for holding this oversight hearing on the transition assistance program and we know before service members leave the military we must ensure that they are adequately prepared to rejoin civilian life this includes having
▶ 0:22:49a plan for employment and housing as well as Healthcare and other social supports so under normal circumstances over 150,000 service members leave the military each year and their ability to successfully reintegrate in civilian life depends on many factors and the federal government is spending more than 13 billion each year to support these efforts without clear oversight of these programs it's challenging to know what will give our transitioning service members the best outcomes possible so this is an area of concern for me because the tap data
▶ 0:23:19presented at uh this last Hearing in September of 2024 indicates that DOD is struggling to comply with the transition process one year in advance of separating or two years in advance of retiring while some might argue that this data indicates that DOD might not prioritize tap there's a Clear Connection in how service members experience their transition to veteran status on uh recruitment the American Legion recently testified at the Joint House and Senate vso hearing stating that getting this right is a matter of national security
▶ 0:23:50so I expect that DOD all agencies and partners will treat tap as a matter of National Security as well we all need to recognize the history of tap as it was born out of dod's draw down in the 1990s and unfortunately we Face some similar economic forces today uh because of the administration's use of Doge to dismantle agencies and the many services that they provide so it shouldn't be lost in anyone that our service members will be transitioning into a more volatile economy with Rising unemployment and a sinking stock market and it will be our
▶ 0:24:20nation's Heroes that could suffer consequences if they're not able to rely upon the support of federal agencies because of hiring freezes and firing at AG genes like VA secretary Collins in himself um said to expect more Cuts but there's been no evidence from Doge the administration or VA that any of these actions are being redirected to provide improved services and benefits to Veterans rather the opposite is happening our offices are inundated with calls and emails about how veteran services are being negatively impacted uh in
▶ 0:24:50the last two months citizens in my state in New Hampshire have held a number of events at our state capital the latest one was drawing hundreds of folks who were deeply concerned about the projected 880,000 job cuts at VA uh the American public does not want to see veteran benefits and services targeted and with all these uncertainties support systems are absolutely necessary so tap is critical now more than ever I also want to express my concern about how the administration is targeting a particular class of service members our lgbtq service members
▶ 0:25:20and Veterans particularly the transgender Community um stating that being transgender is incompatible with military service I believe is an an a front to an American to our American values and as someone from the Live Free or Die State I find it incomprehensible to discriminate against qualified transgender Americans who are willing and capable of serving and are being denied services that they bravely earned so as these service members transition out out of the military I expect to tap to pay careful attention to their needs and provide them with the support
▶ 0:25:51that they deserve um I want to thank you again Mr chairman for uh your spirit of nonpartisanship on this subcommittee uh continuing to look to work with you to identify ways that we can improve tap uh and with that I back thank you uh ranking member papis I I'll introduce our witness panel Morgan hey hey hey you got a watch and a Wason Kentucky I love that guy sorry uh our first witness is Mr Alex bar director of the defense Support Services Center
▶ 0:26:21Department of Defense our next witness is Mr John Green acting executive director of Outreach transition economic development at the uh the Department of Veterans Affairs Mr Green is accompanied by Miss Regina y the assistant director of Outreach transition economic development at the VA and our Final witness of this panel is Miss Margarita Dev great name Margarita develin uh Deputy assistant Secretary of the Department of Labor veterans employment and training so please uh I'll ask you
▶ 0:26:51everybody please raise your right hand he Solly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth okay uh thank you U you may be seated let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative Mr bar you're not recognize for five minutes to deliver your testimony on behalf of the Department of Defense good morning chairman van Orton ranking member papus and the distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to discuss the transition program
▶ 0:27:21transition assistance program commonly called tab each of us across the department our inter agency partner ERS are fully committed to making tap the best it can be a big part of that is getting service members to tap early and increasing the number of service members who attend one of the four two-day tracks throughout 2020 and 2021 we focused on shifting inperson tap to delivering tap in a 100% virtual environment we were successful in redesigning coursework information technology
▶ 0:27:52and contract support and ensuring service members got to tap throughout that challenging period service members continued to provide High marks concerning tap content delivery but our timeliness percentage fell short of both your and our expectations so in mid 2022 we began a series of corrective actions led by the military departments and commanders working together we are working together we continue to improve tact while putting procedures in place to increase timeliness and improve
▶ 0:28:22two-day track attendance by the end of 2023 timelin percentage doubled in two-day track attendance and it's increased by over 7% we haven't and won't stop there we are confident that the military Department's corrective action will produce even better results over time and that those results will further validate our commitment to our transitioning service members much of our success is due to the great working relationship we have with VA do and the other members of transition executive
▶ 0:28:52committee DOD the military departments and our inter agency partners are actively involved at every level of the tech to the working groups we are proactive in championing and implementing change and fully committed to supporting the war Fighters and their families tap is the foundation of that support and sets the conditions for successful transition today tap is very different and far more effective than the program of 10 five or even three years ago and provid service members more comprehensive
▶ 0:29:22support than any time during our nation's history that is possible because tap is commanders program with commanders balancing National Defense requirements with individual transition goals and with results supporting Readiness transition recruiting retention Reserve component affiliation and sustainment of the all volunteer Force tap is and will remain adaptive focus on three tenants effective Counseling Service member buyin and meaningful support connections
▶ 0:29:53throughout the transition period in closing Mr chairman I thank you and the ranking member and the other members of this committee for your outstanding unwavering support of the men and women who proudly wear the uniform of our great nation and sir I'm very honored to be here with you today well again Mr Barett I'm very thankful that you are here and your uh written statement will be entered into the record Mr Green you are not recognized for five minutes to deliver testimony good morning chairman van
▶ 0:30:23Orton ranking member of pampus and distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to discuss the current state of transition assistance program sharing modern efforts and explore collaboration opportunities to improve the program joining me today is Regina y assistant director from vba's Outreach transition and economic development program we appreciate your ongoing support for the nation's veterans their families and caregivers and survivors as a retired army
▶ 0:30:53veteran I understand the challenges members face when leaving active duty during this critical time many transition and service members are an increased risk for suicide homelessness post-traumatic stress and substance use disorders connecting veterans to the benefits and services they've earned acts to safeguard against these threats and supports the overall well-being VA recognizes that transition begins well before a s member leaves the military and continues long after
▶ 0:31:23separation making it essential for VA to stay connected with veterans throughout their lives and provide resources during critical times while service members are still on active duty VA leavs a onday benefits and services course as part of tap this course helps Services members navigate VA resources including excessing benefits and services in fiscal year 2024 benefit advisors assisted over 200,000 transition in service members we
▶ 0:31:53understand that information provided can be extensive so we offer additional guidance in clarification through one-on-one counseling sessions with benefit advisors as well as those online and training that can be accessed any time before after separation we also welcome spouses into all tap trainings as we recognize the key role they play in the transition process as an example our benefit advisor's commitment to transition in service members happened recently at Camp Foster okanawa
▶ 0:32:24Japan the benefit advisers assisted a service member who was overwhelmed with the transition process their one-on-one sessions with the advisor aided the soldier and understanding the benefits available explain the timelines and help the documentation requirements for submission of the benefits delivery at discharge compensation claim upon excident service VA connects directly with each new veteran through the VA solid Start program providing one-on-one ass sessions tailored to address challenges
▶ 0:32:54that may face and Link them to benefits and resources for example Jessica who was on the verge of homelessness when solid start contacted her and had no idea she was eligible for healthcare and thought it was something only officers were uh available to officers as the representative listened to Jessica they decided to talk with her about health care guide her through how to file a claim for compensation and offered to connect her with a representative at the VA National contact center for those
▶ 0:33:24at risk of homelessness by her last call with her solid start representative Jessica was receiving compensation payments had health care and was living in an apartment since tap Inception in 1991 transition supports has significantly improved via offers several programs to support service members through transition and Beyond such as personalized career planning and Veteran and spouse transition grant program ongoing assessment and modifications
▶ 0:33:55of tap ensure VA meets the evolving needs of transitioning service members in 2024 veteran service organizations participation was added into the tab course serving as a direct connection between participants and service organization the benefits and services course includes a practical exercise to reinforce critical information and highlight time sensitive information benefits such as life insurance lastly VA
▶ 0:34:25modernize the sign up process for scheduling one-onone assistant using quick response codes VA is committed to maintaining a strong partnership with a Department of Defense Department of Labor and other interner agency partners we share congress's goal to ensure transition in service members veterans and their families are supported during and after their transition from military to civilian life and remain dedicated to strengthen our transition initiatives
▶ 0:34:56chairman van Ordon ranking member papis and members of the subcommittee this concludes my statement I'm happy to respond to any questions you may have thank you Mr Green uh the written statement of Mr Green will be entered near the record M devn you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony chairman van Orton ranking member papis and distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today on the current state of the transition assistance program and everything we are doing to continue modernizing and refining the program
▶ 0:35:26the department of labor veterans employment and training service otherwise known as vets exists to support the employment and career goals of transitioning service members veterans military spouses National Guardsman reservists as well we have three core tap workshops employment fundamentals of career transition is the mandatory one-day course we also provide to elective tracks the employment Workshop is as it sounds additional support for direct transition to civilian employment
▶ 0:35:57the career and credential exploration Workshop provides support for navigating the labor market and non-oled degree credentialing options such as apprenticeship lure and certifications our satisfaction ratings for participants who take our courses are consistently high for example 96% indicate they would use what they learned in their own transition planning 94% reported that the course enhanced their confidence in their transition planning but classroom training is not enough
▶ 0:36:28and transition is not a one-size fits-all experience I've been in this space for a long time and whether it was during my tenure at VA or now at do there's one consistent bit of feedback we get service members want personalized support beyond the classroom vets answered that call when we pilot tested and developed and implemented the employment Navigator and partnership program or EMP as we call it this program which is currently available at 40 military installations helps service members and their spouses navigate their
▶ 0:36:58postmilitary career Journey Navigators provide one-on-one career guidance and job-seeking skills support as well as referrals to vetted partner organizations who provide additional Services during and after separation from the military Navigators also facilitate warm handovers to a designated point of contact at do funded American job centers and that is especially important if the service member does not meet career Readiness standards data reflects that the MPP has been
▶ 0:37:28a great success in fiscal year 2024 99% of survey respondents reported positive feelings after meeting with their employment Navigator and would recommend empp to a friend or a colleague also 96% of respondents felt EMP Partners met or exceeded their employment related expectations and even more importantly we now have outcome data our preliminary analysis shows for example that enlisted service members who worked with an employment Navigator became employed approximately
▶ 0:37:582 months sooner and earned about 11% more than their counterparts who did not work with a navigator during their transition this program is making an impact on service members lives the transition experiences of Wounded Warriors caregivers and Military spouses are also unique so we developed and implemented specialized courses like the Wounded Warrior and caregiver employment workshop and the transition employment assistance for military spouses Workshop to address their needs as well we also no transition doesn't
▶ 0:38:28end with the issuing of the DD214 veterans may have several transitions throughout their careers and we continue to provide support after separation with programs such as the off- based transition training program facilitating successful military to civilan Transitions requires coordination between Federal and non-government partners do appreciates the strong partnership with our inter agency colleagues including VA and DOD plus veteran service organizations State directors of Veterans Affairs and many
▶ 0:38:58other non-government partners our long-term strategic goal for tap is for the nation to recognize military service as a path to highquality civilian careers the future of the all the all volunteer Force depends on it we look forward to our continued work with this committee and we share in your commitment to ensuring service members and spouses have every opportunity for stable careers postmilitary Mr chairman ranking member distinguished member MERS of the subcommittee thank you for
▶ 0:39:28this opportunity to testify before you today and I welcome your questions thank you m Dev written statement of Miss Dev will be entered into the record uh we're going to go to questioning you guys know the deal so do you uh five minutes is it you want to do a second uh round 100% or a third or A fifth or 100th round I don't care we're going to get some answers this morning so I now recognize Rec member papis for five minutes for questioning sir thank you very much to this panel uh and your discussion about such an important uh improvements over time I want to turn to Mr be first
▶ 0:39:58in March 2024 GAO found that DOD is not reliably verifying whether warm hand handovers occur GAO found that over a 2-year period commanders or their designes verified that a warm Handover was provided to nearly 78,000 transitioning service members who were not recorded as receiving one GAO recommended that DOD develop additional guidance to commanders in their designes on verifying warm handovers and on recording the verifications in the tap database so I'm wondering what steps DOD has taken to
▶ 0:40:29address this recommendation thank you for that question ranking member um we've done a lot and the ga GAO report really caught our attention and we've made a lot of changes just yesterday a new course stood up on the tap site that is for military commanders and it walks them through what their responsibility is in t in the tap space and it mentions the warm Handover we've also um probably d strongest arm we have is the service
▶ 0:40:59IG teams and they've now the inspector generals are now taking a look at the tap process within the services uh to make sure that we're meeting all the requirements it's it's an education process and we will continue to educate until they get it right uh thanks for that and we're interested in continuing to engage with you uh as that all rolls forward in making sure that um those recommendations are um you know continuing to be addressed
▶ 0:41:29we've also heard concerns from vsos that enrollment in skillbridge is down our understanding is that the Navy and Marines have scaled back uh eligibility and I'm wondering if you can explain why requirements might changed the Navy and the Marine Corp took a hard look at who was going through skillbridge and what they found was in a lot of cases it was senior people and so they've changed the rules they've done policy we see the same support for skillbridge today that we saw before the services are just getting better at determining who's
▶ 0:41:59the right person to go through skillbridge um thanks for that and I I've seen the benefits of that program and heard about it directly um from participating uh businesses as well as transitioning service members and we want to continue to support a strong skillbridge program if I can turn to VA now I'm wondering how VA is collaborating with DOD to ensure that individuals with mental health issues uh specifically are receiving the services that they need during that uh crucial first year after transition you talked about uh
▶ 0:42:29Jessica a veteran and her experience with solid start um it was really uh important to hear about her example um but I'm wondering specific to mental health issues um how we can continue to see the kind of collaboration that's going to help thank you for that question at VA the way that we continue to collaborate with DOD in order for um these in these transition of service members are connected uh through mental health um we do connect them to uh VA uh in transition
▶ 0:43:00um and we also get an opportunity uh to follow them through our VA solid star program uh so there are three particular areas that we actually uh connect with these transition and service members uh 90 Z to 90 days 91 to 180 days and then 181 days to 365 days we actually reach out to those particular veterans uh upwards of seven times each one of those particular time periods if one of those calls is
▶ 0:43:30answered uh then we stop calling and we go to the next um bucket of dates so there's an opportunity for 21 calls uh to be made uh additionally uh DOD provides a list uh to our VA solid Start program uh VA solid start um prioritizes those programs and those particular veterans or service members to get an opportunity to outreach uh and make sure that there are no additional issues
▶ 0:44:01uh that may be uh there uh and through transition in transition meeting monthly they get an opportunity to see if there's any additional issues that may be there that they need to be addressed and just one more quickly the most recent post-separation tap assessment I'm wondering if you can tell me what that indicates about veterans satisfaction with tap and whether the program effectively addresses the challenges that veterans are facing entering the civilian Workforce thank you sir for that question yes the most recent what we call Post separation
▶ 0:44:31transition Assessment program gives a satisfaction score of 96.3% uh so it is highly touted uh and during that particular study uh we did have a great satisfaction rate uh that we were meeting exactly what transition and service members thank you thank you very much I yield back thank you sir uh the gentleman yields back and I recognize uh representative H from the great state of Arizona thank thank you Mr chairman I hly I yes Arizona's awesome it's uh much
▶ 0:45:01better weather right now and thank you to our Witnesses for being here today as both a veteran and a member of this committee I find it troubling that only 52% of our transitioning service members are receiving timely access to the transition assistance program tap this unacceptable now when I served as an Army Reserve intelligence officer I witnessed firsthand how critical proper transition support is for our war Fighters and we expect excellence and accountability from our service members while they're
▶ 0:45:31in uniform and we should aband nothing less when they're preparing them for civilian life now my first question is for Miss develin I was struck by something you said during our prehearing call yesterday you mentioned that when service members don't complete all parts of tap you consider it simply in the law and dod's responsibility not yours yet your Department's own data shows that service members who receive proper transition assistance through your employment Navigator program find jobs 63
▶ 0:46:02days faster and earn 11% higher wages now how can the Department of Labor claim to prioritize veteran employment outcomes while washing your hands of responsibility for ensuring service members actually receive the training thank you for asking that question and just to be clear we are involved in working with DOD on the accountability that's required to make sure that service members do participate in tap and have access to it uh forgive me if if my answer to that original
▶ 0:46:32question wasn't clear in our meeting uh we do we do take great pride in being a strong partner to DOD and we have a very active engagement in our inner agency Council and we do we do look at the data we we uh brainstorm together solutions to improve participation rate how to help military leaders understand the importance of tap we contribute to that training should look if there's training that's required um we definitely are very involved and we recognize
▶ 0:47:03the importance of early intervention in participation in tap and absolutely the Navigator program which is at 40 installations has proven to be incredibly life-changing for these service members who have access to it but section 1144 of title 10 specifically tasks the Secretary of Labor with quote Furnishing information on employment and training assistance that isn't optional and now the law doesn't say when de deot decides to let you the law makes clear
▶ 0:47:33that the Department of Labor is a key partner in this process with responsibility for coordinating the employment components let me ask you about accountability at Fort Cavazos in Texas service members who attended tap on time reinlist at a rate of 60% compared to just 30% for those who don't now that suggests that tap actually helps retention which should motivate commanders now miss deing given that your department shows military members who use deployment Navigator program find jobs two months faster and earn higher wages
▶ 0:48:03what specific recommendations has the Department of Labor made to improve unit Commander accountability for tap uh attendance thank you for that question as well uh and I agree in many cases participation in tap early enough helps the service member really see their options clearly in terms of remaining in the military for additional time versus transitioning out at that point in their life in many cases it helps them to realize they might need more time to fully prepare for a civilian transition um with respect to
▶ 0:48:34um helping the service member transition and any recommendations that we have um for accountability one of the things we talked about in the committee for example in the inter agency committee is training for commanders to help them understand the value of sending their their troops to tap um value in terms of retention but also in terms of recruitment every veteran that that you know becomes a veteran leaves the military is a walking billboard for either military service or not based on the experience
▶ 0:49:04that they had in the transition so we have conversations around those kinds of things that are maybe different approaches to tackling the problem um and and as we sit through these committee meetings we are all very engaged in the process my colleagues at VA and DOD are very engaged in making sure because we all believe it's important that service members have access to tap early enough in the process sure but I keep hearing that there's conversations but what about accountability I'll defer to my DOD colleague if it's okay with you Mr
▶ 0:49:34be because I know that he has been working on um with the military services on accountability that we've talked about in our committee meetings one of the things we asked in their questionnaire after they finished with tap is um was there any barrier to you getting to tap and that number has remained at about 1% Mr shman I you back thank you and Mr arm if you want a second round of questioning we're here I mean this is what we're doing today so I appreciate that tremendously the gentleman deals back
▶ 0:50:05I now recognize Mr McGarvey my very dear friend from the great state of Kentucky for five minutes sir thank you Mr chairman thank you all for being here today you know we're talking about a really important thing which is how we transition active duty soldiers into civilian life uh what our veterans do after uh that initial call to military service and the transition assistance program tap what we're talking about today really helps that transition go smoothly and it provides the resources the training the support that
▶ 0:50:35our veterans need whether they're going back to school whether they're starting a business whether they're they're just preparing for Life finding a job outside of the military um it's like a guide it helps service members navigate what they're going to encounter and to do it confidently just looking at this panel we can see how many different a agencies are involved in this but with tap shared between you guys Collective responsibility also means shared accountability
▶ 0:51:05and as part of that accountability is ensuring that we have common high quality standards across the board so that no matter where you go do your TAP you have a quality experience that prepares you for life after the military um you know in Kentucky we we've got KFC and this may seem like a trivial example example but one of the things you do when you are training employees to work at a KFC is you have to have training for every employee that ensures you have that same quality
▶ 0:51:36no matter what restaurant you go to anywhere in the world right we want to make sure that no matter where you go in the military for your transition assistance program you get that same quality and right now we are hearing from veterans that that's not the case uh even the different branches of the service have different transition Assistance programs they're frustrated veterans are frustrated they're not
▶ 0:52:06getting the level of support that they feel they need and sometimes it's available but when it's not available to them because of what city they're in or where they're stationed that's frustrating so Mr be how are the dod and the military branches making sure that local leaders and unit commanders stick stick to the rules ensure service members attend tap on time thank you for that question that's the very reason we made it a service IG uh
▶ 0:52:36Spotlight item so that they would take a look at it commanders do what the IG looks at and so we're hoping that in in prior to 2022 the services did not have corrective action plans for how they were going to get those plans went to GAO all those plans were accepted and now they're executing those plans to reach their you higher numbers I appreciate that because not only do we need the quality we are hearing from from veterans that there's a disregard for the program at DOD so we want to make sure that people
▶ 0:53:07are going um what changes are being made to shift the culture to prioritize a quality tap program and that people go I think the emphasis is one coming through the IG and two coming through the increased training we're going to do for commanders uh for the first time we now have a guide that they can download and they also have an online class they can take to help them understand I think when tap first came out they saw it it's just another program that they had to do now they're starting to see the benefit of
▶ 0:53:37it we need to get really quite frankly we need to get to the new commanders and make sure we do training with the new commanders right off I appreciate that and and Miss Deon I want to switch to you for the last time we've got remaining um you have talked about especially in your written testimony the importance of tailoring the tap program to actually meet the demands of Private Industry and and what employers are looking for how can the tap program better involve employers to meet the level of involvement
▶ 0:54:07that you would like to see that to get the needs of private Industries and adapt to current job market trends some of the things that we do uh at the Department of Labor vets is we engage with specific Industries where there's a high demand uh for employment and where they're really looking to hire transitioning service members and Veterans defense industrial base for example is an area that's that's in high demand and important to National Security so we engage with employers through our employer outreach program and we bring that feedback from those employers back into uh the department and we Infuse
▶ 0:54:37it throughout our program we also take feedback from service members about what they're hearing and even after they leave the military um and what their experiences were like thank you very much and like I said you know we want to make sure this is actually a program that works for our veterans it's so important um to transition from military life to civilian life is not always easy uh and and we got to do everything we can to help them out thank you guys so much and I I yield back Mr chairman gentleman yields uh the chair now recognizes representative King Hines from the Northern Mariana Islands
▶ 0:55:07thank you Mr chairman it only took me two days to get here this time but I'm here I don't know how you do it but God bless you for being here we appreciate it thank you to all the witnesses for joining us this morning so I find it very disconcerning that only 52% of service members attended tap on time right and so how do we improve this should be should this be mandator a mandatory program or you know where that it's compulsory for every service member is that
▶ 0:55:37the case now or is that not the case uh it's an open-ended question to whoever wants to answer thank you for that question yes tap is mandatory and so why why are the statistics the way they are quite honestly I believe because we were keeping an eye on close enough but we are now we look at them at our level with the transition executive committee but also to the department IG teams are looking at the numbers to make sure that they're staying on track
▶ 0:56:08okay um I see that there are different agencies here who collaborate right um are there gaps or legislative fixes that Congress can help with to ensure that Department of Labor Veterans Affairs and whichever other agency works together to be able to streamline the process of helping the veterans and ensuring that they're getting the assistance that they need I can
▶ 0:56:38jump in and just say that from the Department of Labor standpoint um we believe we've got what we need with the with the committee that we have in place um so for example when we pilot tested the employment Navigator program and were able to demonstrate the success we went to the committee and said listen we think we should expand this and have more more service members have access to it DOD and the military services were at the table they were Eagle eager to help we brainstormed a solution we we developed a strategy and we're going forward with implementation of
▶ 0:57:08the expansion subject to funding of course um so this those Partnerships are really strong that we have when it comes to the data on participation rates we look at that data on a quarterly basis and sometimes more regularly in between those quarterly meetings and we ask questions you know why why is this one you know a little bit less here what's happening here and the military services are there and they help us either answer the question on the spot or they go research it and come back to us so we have a system that enables accountability between our agencies all right
▶ 0:57:38so I come from a rural community I come from the northern Maran islands where access to to care and services is very limited anyway for our veterans how are we ensuring that the the folks who are coming out of the service um are getting the assistance that they need that so that they are able to go right into the workforce that they are ready to go into the workforce so part of getting ready to go into the workforce is to understand what the individual's interests aptitudes and abilities are uh and
▶ 0:58:08where we have the employment Navigator they help them navigate all of that where we don't have it there's still the the course right so if they do the one-day course it's a lot and sometimes we hear it's like drinking from a fire hose which is why we offer the two elective courses and taking the first course uh at tap helps the service member understand what they might want to do in their elective courses right so if they if they really know that they just want to get into a job they feel like they have the skills already maybe they they completed some college while in the military they might go to
▶ 0:58:39the the employment Workshop to learn more about how to do the resume interviewing skills networking all those kinds of things but if they H don't have the training maybe they want to learn more Hands-On maybe they want to do an apprenticeship they can do the the career credentialing Workshop um after that the connection to our partners I think is critical because once they get into that Community they can still keep that connection to our partners for example the American Workforce system uh being able to connect with the disabled veteran outreach program coordinators
▶ 0:59:09local veteran employment Representatives that gives them the continued support that they need after they get into their Community um so that they can continue to to keep working on getting that stable job all right thank you thank you Mr chairman I you bu my time the general lady yields back the chair now recommend this myself for five minutes in the third person which is never just going to not be weird um hey I'm going to take a point of personal privilege before we start that clock I just want to cover something that Mr papis uh referenced in his opening statements So currently the dod
▶ 0:59:39is deployed to about 60 countries at any given time and uh that's not going to change and when uh someone joins the military and they decide uh to to you know transition from one gender to another um that's a two to three to four year process where people are taking hormones then having some very very absolutely brutal barbaric surgeries and they're non- Deployable at that point and so if someone decides to do this
▶ 1:00:09and that's up to them Chris back is the first uh openly transgender Navy SEAL and he's a really good friend of mine and he he's he he's a guy now again you know he went back and forth but he's a really good friend of mine and uh I've known him for 30 years and he's a good man man and he's a solid operator he's Frogman and we didn't care what was going on but he got out of the military and then decided to do this and and and here's why that's so important when when we say the people are overseas in
▶ 1:00:4060 countries I have to leave my wife and children or a wife has to leave her husband or her you know wife we don't care what you're doing you're personal time but we got to leave our kids um and potentially get killed because someone is doing is and and that's Mr papis the reason that I I agree with the current policy and I understand I respect you tremendously I just want to make that very clear someone is going to leave their family to forward deploy at all times and that's all I have to say about that
▶ 1:01:10um ma'am Miss develin I can't tell you how excited I am that Lori Chavez reers the new secretary she's oh my gosh so we did you ever see the movie on the other guys watch it Marky markk will phoh that's great um they did Fresh Start so we're doing a fresh start and I saw you sneak in there Rodriguez stand upur yeah oh yeah you tried to yeah uhhuh nice to see you oh yeah yeah try to sneak in didn't work uh Fresh Start ma'am
▶ 1:01:40with you guys and I expect a lot out of you I expect a lot out of Lori and I ocean can perform president Trump expects a lot out of you and a lot out of Lori and so does the entire country not just our veterans community so you guys are in good hands I I expect it the best out of you uh okay that's enough of that okay bar um do you consider tap a retention tool yes sir I do why because those folks who go out into the
▶ 1:02:11field and do tap and if they do it right then I see the benefits of being in the military so I think it's a great retention to okay you're correct sir and they talk to each other our vets talk to each other yes sir you know what I mean and and it gets around if it's terrible and so it is a retention tool and is as Mr Papa said it's national security issue um Mr Green you gave an anecdote about Jessica and one other person right but 52%
▶ 1:02:41of folks go to this program that means 48% don't 200,000 enlisted math it's about 96,000 people you can't give me an anecdote for a year so although I appreciate Jessica and her job there's 96,000 other people you can't give me an anecdote for because they didn't go to tap and that sir is unacceptable um we talked in private Miss y I asked you a couple questions yesterday and uh there's a solid Start program you're doing it here's
▶ 1:03:11the legislation we pulled it up and this is highlighted um so it says VA employees must call Veterans for outreach purposes right corre and uh survey indicates veterans prefer communication methods other than a phone call they like texting and you know chatting and whatnot okay so the ogc interpreted this to be a voice phone call when it says calling each veterans so who is the ogc that made this decision that's
▶ 1:03:41va's office of general counsel who is the person I asked you specifically yesterday unfortunately we were unable to get's name you are now you will respect this committee Green there have been cuts by Doge and I I'll be very Frank with you the messaging and how these guys are getting the
▶ 1:04:11word out is not okay um they're just not doing a good job of it Mr papis they aren't and we are not beholden to any Administration we're not we we're beholden to our constituents and our veterans so I'm just going to say it out loud what they're trying to do is is good and righteous at Doge how they're getting the message across is is confusing and it's terrifying our veterans right I mean he's getting calls I'm getting calls Morgan you get calls you guys get calls um so but I want to I want to
▶ 1:04:41ask you this question um have you is there is there a degradation of your ability from the Department of Veterans Affairs or the of Labor ma'am to deliver services to our veterans due to this Doge stuff no sir okay so ma'am no sir okay so here's what we got to do we got to quit fearmongering with veterans and our
▶ 1:05:11seniors and hungry kids I was raised on welfare I went to bed hungry I don't like that we're not cutting SNAP benefits we're not cutting uh Wick as a matter of fact we increased it by $500 million we're not cutting veterans benefits and uh there's eight folks that were released from the Toma va8 healthc Care Center where I get my care and I love them um and I just called Karen she runs the place and I said Karen has there been any uh any degradation of your ability to provide medical care to our veterans and she said
▶ 1:05:42no so I'm just going to ask everybody on both sides of the aisle and external folks to quit fear Mong green because when I ask you Mr Green you're a subject matter expert Miss Devon subject matter expert you know what you're talking about right right so when you say there's no degradation of your ability to provide services to our veterans I take you at word and so let's just stop doing that that's all I'm going to ask um so Mr papis do you have anything you want to wrap up with sir before we go to the second panel I have no further
▶ 1:06:12questions interested in engaging our second panel okay excellent uh you guys are excused and I hope you stick around for the next panel and we'll take you uh you know everyone says five minutes It'll is 10 so let's just say 10 minutes we'll take a 10-minute recess thank you
▶ 1:09:54e e
▶ 1:10:26can we come to order um oh sorry my bad I am now in the proper uniform of the day our second panel we're going to be hearing from our Witnesses uh Miss Joy Craig associate director of services members of far VFW uh next witness is Miss Elizabeth O'Brien senior vice president of hiring uh Our Heroes us Chamber of Commerce nice to see you third witness uh Miss Barbara Carson
▶ 1:10:56managing director of program services for the D'Angelo Institute of veterans and military families Syracuse University it's a very big title our fourth witness is Mr Brian Lewis executive director of customer operations at uh Consumers Energy and our Final witness to this panel is Miss Candy Tillman the managing co-founder at 50 strong so I'd like to welcome you and ask you to stand please and raise your right hand
▶ 1:11:29do you Solly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth okay please be seated let the record reflect that all Witnesses have answered in the affirmative Miss craer I recognize for five minutes to deliver your testimony on behalf of the VFW thank you chairman chairman van Orton ranking member poas and members of the subcommittee on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States and its auxiliary thank you for the opportunity to provide our remarks on the transition
▶ 1:11:59assistance program or tab nearly 200,000 service members leave the military each year with 80% separating before retirement military force management depends on a steady pipeline of new recruits to sustain operational Readiness this ongoing cycle underscores the importance of ensuring the Department of Defense delivers effective military to civilian transition programs for many service members joining the military is a means of securing stable employment or a path to Upward Mobility it is a major life event and conversely
▶ 1:12:29so is transition despite spending up to six months training new recruits DOD provides only 5 days of preparation for their return to civilian life veterans who are not fully prepared face increased risks of unemployment financial hardship and suicide especially within the first year after separation while dod's primary mission is National Security it has legal obligations to provide transition Services Federal la mandates that all eligible service members begin transition support no later than one
▶ 1:12:59year before separation DOD must ensure time timely tap attendance and provide a warm handoff to Community Resources in October 2023 DOD testified before Congress that commanding officers frequently wave tap attendants due to Mission requirements involuntary separations or personal choice at the same hearing the government accountability office reported that 53% of all tap waivers were were approved with 22% of atrisk service members skipping the mandatory 2-day
▶ 1:13:29track entirely DOD must allow more time for tap participation ensure commanding ensure command support for transition tailor courses to different separation types expand access for garden Reserve members and better integrate spouses into the process vfw's transition survey shows that future veterans primary concerns after separation include finding employment navigating service connected disabilities maintaining Financial stability and losing
▶ 1:14:00their sense of purpose in camaraderie it is unrealistic to assume that every service member has a job waiting or a safety net to catch them on the outside the VFW recommends integrating transition support early and at multiple points throughout a service member's career rather than relying solely on the transition assistance program poor enforcement of tap attendance disproportionately affects Junior enlisted service members who are the most vulnerable post discharge the vfw's transition survey highlights other issues with
▶ 1:14:30tap an army E6 from Fort Riley reported their unit did not provide adequate time for a smooth transition and described tap as an overwhelming fire hose of information with no time to act on what was taught one sailor from quanico was repeatedly pulled from tap classes for operational duties while another missed crucial instruction because they were not released from deployment in time these reports reveal a culture of of prioritizing oper operational needs over transition one area showing Improvement
▶ 1:15:00is va's tap 6.0 program which is increased access to benefits counseling allowing in-person accredited representatives to help service members navigate VA claims since its launch in January 2024 VFW has reached 13,000 more members than the year prior a 54% increase in engagement which is why we urge Congress to pass the tap promotion act to to ensure all future veterans receive this essential assistance to claim their earned benefits
▶ 1:15:31as early as possible the transition experience can also have lasting effects on Military recruitment poor transition can impact how veterans speak to their children and communities about the value of military service and could cause young people to be hesitant to join fearing their own post- discharge challenges to address these and other ongoing issues which I've detailed in my written testimony the VF W urges Congress to establish a key position within DOD to oversee transition we
▶ 1:16:01recommend an under secretary of defense for transition to oversee coordinate and modernize all transition programs as it stands transition services are fragmented and inconsistently enforced at the unit level where operational priorities often take precedence an under secretary would provide Congress a single point of accountability and drive the necessary culture change within DOD chairman van Orton ranking member Papas this concludes my remarks I'm happy to answer any questions you may have uh thank you Miss Craig
▶ 1:16:31the written statement Miss Craig will be entered into the record Miss O'Brien you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony good morning chairman van Orton ranking member papis and distinguished members of the subcommittee I am Elizabeth O'Brien I am the senior vice president of Hiring Our Heroes and initiative of the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation I have also been for the last two decades in active duty milit AR spouse and proud mother of three Army brats during our nation's longest conflicts thank you for allowing me
▶ 1:17:01the opportunity to speak on the need to update and modernize transition Assistance programs for service members transitioning from active duty to the Workforce since our Inception at Hiring Our Heroes we have served over 1 million members and currently support 880,000 military connected individuals each year Economic Opportunity sustains the all volunteer Force but Su success depends on effective career navigation programs like skillbridge and employment related
▶ 1:17:32pathways are vital ensuring today's Warriors become tomorrow's best recruiters as we all know in 2011 the United States faced a crisis in veteran unemployment as Young Veterans struggled with rates soaring up to 30% the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation launched Hiring Our Heroes and we United forces with state and local Chambers businesses Department of Defense and Department of Labor in the VA the public private effort helped cut post 911 unemployment from 12.1% to
▶ 1:18:025.8 by 2015 however today veteran unemployment remains below non-veterans at 4% however the unemployment data reveals little about the true employment journey of transitioning service members re research shows from McKenzie and company that while veterans generally out-earned civilians 60% of transitioning service members earn Less in their first civilian job than in the military Penn State University reported that 61%
▶ 1:18:32of veterans feel unemployed citing a mismatch between their skills and the civilian job opportunities Edelman found that 62% of transitioning service members couldn't secure a job at their desired level and our link and the LinkedIn veteran opportunity report revealed that veterans are half half as likely as civilians to reach leadership roles again pointing to a disconnect between military experience and employer recognition the US still falls short in post-military career support
▶ 1:19:02the ran study confirmed gao's 2020 findings that 45 overlapping programs across 11 agencies with less than 5% of funding for job placement or skills translation most transitioning service members need employment support yet tap isn't solely designated for that rand's 2024 report urged great G investment in employment programs and stronger Federal and collaboration skillbridge a DOD initiative is the
▶ 1:19:32sole Federal transition program that turns conventional transition outcomes on its head for over a decade at Hiring Our Heroes we have facilitated and worked as one of the largest intermediaries in support of skillbridge in the past five years we have connected 10,600 fellows with 2,500 employers Nationwide inclusive of all right s 89% job offer rate within 3 months $107,000 average starting salary which is double the
▶ 1:20:03pay of an E6 with 8 years of service and 20% higher than an 03 what we know is that experiential Bridge programs close the gap around poor transition our strategic Insight report surveyed 1900 skill Bridge participants and 381 nonparticipants time to employment was much faster for fellows with 63% being employed within one month of transition versus 38 of nonp part of nonparticipants fellows were for more likely
▶ 1:20:33to take a job for positive reasons fellows were more likely to recommend service to Future generations with 61% saying they would recommend Service First 54% also military spouse employment is key to veteran transition success providing Financial stability and allowing the veteran to find the right fit job or op upscaling opportunity currently Hiring Our Heroes facilitates the department of defense's military spouse career accelerator
▶ 1:21:03pilot in since 2022 of December we have placed over 1,000 spouses with an offer rate of 85% and 60% remote place placement as we look forward to the future HOH recommends the following areas of focus focus on more relate employment related Services as part of transition they should be prior prioritized while reducing or eliminating duplicative programs expand opportunities for skillbridge and apprenticeships the programs help service members showcase
▶ 1:21:34their skills create informed career decisions playing a crucial role in in successful transition the military to civilian transition is not a general L time has expired thank you I look forward to you're sure welcome and uh thanks for that and your written testimony will be entered in the record which I actually read um I did so and Miss Carson you're not recognized for five minutes chairman van Orton ranking member Papas and distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony today
▶ 1:22:04on behalf of the danello institute for veterans and military families at Syracuse University even in the best of circumstances we know that military to civilian transition can present significant challenges yet the bar for a successful transition is often quite low focusing on unemployment despite data showing 62% of veterans are underemployed after 6 and a half half years when exiting service veterans are qualified to get jobs that reflect and respect their service and training we should not assume that those jobs
▶ 1:22:34are the same ones they did in the military securing meaningful employment can help avoid enormous Financial social and personal costs these costs also have implications for our all volunteer force and in turn our national security data from the military family lifestyle survey our collaboration with blue star families as well as recent data that was recently published by ipsos with Call of Duty endowment as well as Mission roll call both point to the hency to recommend or
▶ 1:23:04pursue military service for the younger generation despite the positive perception of veterans the available evidence is a fundamental starting point for how we might improve tap and the transition process and where tap alone is not sufficient first as a mandatory program tap must continuously be assessed to ensure it's accessible and meets the evolving needs of transitioning service members despite recent progress many still fail to begin tap as early as required by law and some fail to attend
▶ 1:23:34the required portion at all at the same time we recognize the inherent tension DOD faces between prioritizing Mission Readiness and focusing on preparation for Post Service life we must explore options that preserve flexibility for commanders to meet their compliance goals but also include consequences for non-compliance I such as integrating tap participation into those performance evaluations Beyond tap our system of supports is complex and not always aligned with what people
▶ 1:24:04need or what works best there are currently 46 programs across 11 agencies which Rand estimates represent $13 billion of expenditures every year this investment skews heavily towards Education Services despite evidence that employment is the key component of most veterans plans after service budget and performance data for these programs is hard to come by making it difficult to address overlaps and gaps with existing programs tap is one of the few Federal programs
▶ 1:24:34that has been evaluated and while it shows long-term employment benefits effects on wages have been mixed notably wages were better when tap was completed earlier and combined with access to other resources the veteran met metrics initiative or tvmi a longitudinal study of post 911 veterans managed by Penn State University found that in the months following separation two-thirds of veterans used at least one program aside from tap a third used even more and Veterans
▶ 1:25:05who use more programs experience better outcomes nonprofit initiatives like our onward opportunity program contribute to these outcomes oo provides skilled training and credentialing to over 10,000 transitioning service members Veterans of every era and spouses each year as the only program that's been ra rigorously evaluated by a third party oo provides non-government efforts many often operate more efficiently excuse me it shows that non-government programs operate more
▶ 1:25:35efficiently and effectively than some of the government counterparts in addition to data that's demonstrating the value of multiple programs aside from tap we know that transition is more than one moment in time given this evidence warm handovers must be easier between DOD VA and labor as well as to States and communities we encourage appropriate data sharing with safety and other reduced barriers to enrollment in benefits and services at the federal state and local level further though tap can be a valuable resource data suggests
▶ 1:26:05that only about half of military spouses engage with it we encourage increasing their access and or offering programs that are more tailored for them transition impacts the entire family unit and everyone benefits When spouses are prepared In Sum the evidence demands an accountable system of supports Beyond and government alone empowering investment of scarce resources into programs that work best for veterans and their families during this critical time doing so not only impacts their well-being
▶ 1:26:35successful transition benefits our communities preserves the all volunteer force and ultimately strengthens our national security thank you and I look forward to questions thank you Miss Carson your testimony will be your written statement will be entered into the hearing record Mr L you're now recognized for 5 minutes thank you chairman van Orton ranking member papis and members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to discuss critical programs that support our nation's veterans my name is Brian Lewis and I'm the executive director of customer operations at Consumers
▶ 1:27:06Energy where I've worked in for 12 years serving in a variety of customer Centric roles Consumers Energy provides natural gas and electric service to nearly 7 million Michigan residents prior to my civilian career I was a combat medic and a lab tech in the US Army where I was entrusted with the lives of my fellow soldiers when I transitioned to civilian life however I had to abandon medical aspirations as I found my army training at that time had limited transferability limiting my job prospects the challenges veterans
▶ 1:27:36face finding transferable and meaningful civilian careers after service to our country are real and compelled me to seek out ways to Advocate on their behalf which I now support at Consumer Energy when consumers when veterans join the company at Consumers Energy we have more than 800 military veterans who take our pride of service Beyond self a passion we learned in the military and apply it to a new Mission applying essential heat and light to our fellow michiganders
▶ 1:28:06our company's efforts to support veterans is about our Earnest desire to ease the often difficult transition out of the military by providing a welcoming environment for colleagues with different backgrounds experiences our veterans based Resource Group the veterans advisory panel provides space for employees a help Drive policy change both within our organization and with external Partners to better recruit retain and support veterans today the veterans advisory panel is one of the company's largest resource groups with over 500 members
▶ 1:28:37their feedback ushered in a partnership with the US Department of Labor and led to the registration of seven different job roles as approved apprenticeship programs now our veterans can use their GI Bill benefits while in apprenticeships that prepare them for rewarding lifelong careers we've also recruited vet Veterans for pre-apprenticeship programs referred to as energy style boot camps hosted at a training center located in Congressman barretts District in partnership with the utility Workers Union of America
▶ 1:29:07and power for America these Gas and Electric boot camps have prepared over 300 Veterans for Energy careers by providing a pathway to apprenticeships that lead to high pain in demand electric and natural gas careers as you can imagine though demand for these programs outpaces availability and each time a new boot camp opens we receive more applicants than we have spaces to fill while programs like these are meaningful there's still work to be done we encourage con Congress to strengthen
▶ 1:29:37the connection between the transition assistance program offices and companies in states that aren't close to active duty military installations we also see great potential in the department of defense's skillbridge program but believe further coordination with the transition assistance program program will improve connections between veterans and prospective employers if you're an active duty service member of the military or military veteran listening today my message is simple Consumers Energy is the ideal career destination
▶ 1:30:08for you we we value your heart of service and the unique skills you bring to the energy industry we will do everything we can to provide opportunities in the field at a plant or in an office we'll invest in your development and give you the opportunity to thrive in a team that's essential the providing energy to Michigan thank you again for the opportunity to participate in this discussion Consumers Energy stands ready willing and able to support policy makers and improving Economic Opportunity for our nation veterans and with that I look forward to your
▶ 1:30:38questions thank you Mr Lewis I want to thank you for your incredibly Shameless pitch for your company that was just so in your face let's just acknowledge it and hey thank you sir did you go to Fort Sam it's spent a year at Ford Sam with a bunch of sailors that's right best year of your life pal best year okay your written testimony will be entered to the record and Miss Tillman you're not recognized for five minutes chairman van
▶ 1:31:08Orton ranking member Papas members of the subcommittee thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to speak to you today I'm here on behalf of 50 strong strong an impact first small business that my husband and I co-founded in 2020 he was a former Junior listed service member that served two tours with the Army Rangers our mission is simple to help strong employers build strong Pathways for military talent and to provide easy
▶ 1:31:38virtual connections for those in transition just last Thursday hundreds of military Affiliated job Seekers registered for 150 strong event that featured 20 employers of those that registered 25% identified as E1 through E4 ranks 54% were military Affiliated students and many were transitioning military opting in on their own after this one short virtual event 90% of those that attended say they discovered new civilian employment
▶ 1:32:09Pathways and 98% said they would recommend it to others we do this almost every week in 2024 we supported approximately 200 employers 100 education institutions and nearly 13,000 military affiliated job Seekers this was all done at no cost to those job Seekers and at no cost to taxpayers it is thanks to the support of 13 Partners several years ago a veteran at a Fortune 500 company said to me we want to
▶ 1:32:39hire more transition in military we don't know how to reach them efficiently I still hear this every day from employers as a civilian with 20 years of experience in Fortune 500 this tells me that we need industry enabled mod modern and accessible solutions that complement the critical role that government and nonprofit organizations play I'll offer four areas today for us to consider together first we must recognize that employment is critical to military transition and therefore
▶ 1:33:09employers are a critical stakeholder for any related policy according to Military One Source nearly 3ars of all those leaving active duty separate versus retire as a reminder to us all the vast major majority of transitioning military will need civilian employment and it is employers that offer employment secondly let's recognize that skillbridge has revolutionized employer participation in military transition in the last
▶ 1:33:39six years as one strong example Lowe's has established a skillbridge program that enables opportunities at any of their locations across the country last year 95% of their skillbridge participants received a full-time job offer at the end of their Fellowship this means that a service member returning home to Oshkosh Wisconsin or Bedford New Hampshire or Bucky Arizona where I live has a pathway to a strong future in their home community on day one of post-active Duty I'll also highlight
▶ 1:34:09kushman and Wakefield a global Real Estate Services firm they've taken on over a 100 skillbridge interns to more than 30 different types of roles with a 90 90% full-time offer rate my thanks to the bipartisan leadership of the past three administrations toward this phenomenal growth third we must find solutions that work for employers of all shapes and sizes including small businesses that employ 47% of private sector workers in the US importantly state
▶ 1:34:40and local Chambers of Commerce and industry-driven business associations and business vertical supported groups are often key drivers of small business enablement finally we must recognize that military transition includes the very large number of those that enroll in school in what I'll refer to as extended military transition yet there is no at scale support to help them translate their skills from the military and there's little tracking of employment outcomes once they complete
▶ 1:35:10education yes we must protect this investment and also we must recognize that any education training or certification program should honor our promise to those who have served by leading to meaningful employment Not Dead in Pathways that exhaust their hard-earned education benefits we must also ensure that VA funding is used as intended to intentionally support military Affiliated students based on this I have a few recommendations first include diverse employer voices
▶ 1:35:41in all Congressional hearings and roundtables enhanced T tap curriculum with industry-driven virtual career preparation continue to support dod's efforts towards strong employment outcomes modify skillbridge mou require requirements to maintain flexible internship models Champion local collaboration in your communities develop a tracking mechanism for employment outcomes for all transition programs and encourage all schools receiving post gentle ladies time has expired and
▶ 1:36:11ma'am your written testimony will be entered into the record and I read it to and you have some fantastic recommendations you certainly do I now recognize the ranking member Mr paps for 5 minutes to question the witnesses at his leisure well thank you Mr chairman Miss Tillman I don't know if you wanted to complete the thought it it appeared you were close to the end but I think your recommendations are really important for the subcommittee my last recommendation thank you so much sir my last recommendation encourage all schools receiving post 911 GI Bill funds to allocate resources specifically for student veteran Support
▶ 1:36:42Services well thank you for that maybe I could just turn to you for a question you highlighted skillbridge as a really important development uh something that is has been really working um can you help us understand what the barriers are for more businesses to participate in skillbridge and what we should be doing to uh ensure that uh that connection is made because every time I'm out in my district I meet employers that uh have veteran employees uh are incredibly eager to continue to find
▶ 1:37:12more um this is a time where most Industries are continuing to hire so talk about um the need to make sure skillbridge reaches more employers thank you so much for the question skillbridge is often an entry point for new employers that are trying to figure out how to engage with military Talent there's an important component of skillbridge that has enabled so much growth and so much momentum in industry and that is the ability for employers to open internships through what we'll refer to as third-party
▶ 1:37:42intermediary facilitators one recommendation I'd like to make I will like I will point out thanks to the dod the military to civilian transition office tremendous efforts have been made to ensure strong outcomes in recent uh last year's mou updates there is one modification I'd like to offer to ensure that new employers particularly small businesses can most flexibly engage in the program and that is to delay section 4.3.4 of the current mou
▶ 1:38:13that requires individual M us for all host employers until a future date but mandate employment outcomes reporting immediately as out as outlined in section 4.3 .3 for the third party facilitators that are making their participation possible thanks for that recommendation I appreciate your focus on the small business Community too which I know is valuable to all of our districts here um Miss Carson if I can turn to you for a question um you highlighted your onward to opportunity program um and can you tell us a little bit more about how
▶ 1:38:43that got started what makes it uh unique and if there are lessons that can be translated from the success of that program to other initiatives that provide transition assistance thank you thank you for the question U the onward opportunity program began with a philanthropic effort of the schs Family Foundation and continues to this day with both corporate and philanthropic support it is a credentialing not made up ones that we say that you have a badge from Syracuse University but industry recognized credentials in cyber it HR and
▶ 1:39:13the PMP for example we make that available at no cost thanks to those funders that I just mentioned and when combined with a connection to employers it's a very successful intervention that as I shared in my testimony written in verbal has been evaluated by Third parties and that's exactly what we'd like to see with other interventions what are the outcomes you intend and are you achieving them thank you very much for that U Mr Craig if I can turn to you I appreciate uh your testimony here today and I think
▶ 1:39:43you identified that push and pull relationship that exists between those who are actively serving in their command when it comes to setting aside time to prepare for transition um right now there's only a small amount of time for tap and some describe it as an experience uh like drinking from a fire hose we hear that term all the time so what suggestions uh do you want to highlight to ensure that uh folks can manage the flow of that water uh and that every service member is given adequate time to be able to prepare
▶ 1:40:14thank you for that question uh ranking member Papas um as I mentioned earlier you know DOD does spend anywhere between six weeks and six months training on boarding um service members to become War Fighters but they're lucky if they get five days when they uh prepare to leave the military and the real question is why only five why can't tap be longer or segmented in a way that uh members touch base with the program multiple times throughout their service um we do believe
▶ 1:40:44that that would be a great uh question for an under Secretary of Defense to uh investigate further uh but uh the hose of information that they receive during those tap classes they're they're given very little time to actually act on all the the long to-do list that they create for themselves so we believe the tap should be uh either extended in time or the commanders could be a little bit more gracious in giving service members time uh on the clock to prepare for transition thanks very
▶ 1:41:14much I yield back the gentleman yields back the chair now recognizes Mr Amad from the great state of Arizona for five minutes sir thank thank you Mr chairman thank you to our Witnesses and uh thank you Miss Tillman for everything you and Kevin have done for promoting veterans and uh the entire Tilman family is near and dear to me you know my first uh picture I hung up on my office wall was actually one of Pat Tillman and it's a constant reminder of the sacrifices our military service members make and uh it reminds my
▶ 1:41:44staff and I always choose to hire veterans I prioritize them first and foremost and as we both know Arizona's econom is growing I want to make sure that our employers understand that the veteran pool is the best pool to to you know to take for especially with the growing economy and the all the semiconductors coming in but miss Tillman I got a question for you um what has been your experience working with the Department of Labor with the Navigator program the enpp thank you so much for the question um I would like to offer when
▶ 1:42:15we first started 50 strong as a private small business as you can navigating government here in DC was quite comp licated for us um I will offer the Department of Labor vets team was one of the mo the first groups to uh welcome Us in we have had the privilege of Hosting helping to host employer roundtables with an assistant secretary Rodriguez um and their team has been incredibly supportive and open to the employer Community also
▶ 1:42:45um as of January of this year 50 strong is now an official partner of the DPP program referrals are just now starting to come in for that but we do certainly look forward to further collaboration with their team um and I'm grateful for their team's uh efforts to include all types of organizations and employers do you have any other recommendations for to make that program um my recommendations are as
▶ 1:43:16they would be for any other program we have to continue to look toward outcomes and I will applaud the do team they are tracking outcomes of the do and PP program um and I appreciate that and uh what feedback have you received from the 200 employers that 50 strong works with when it comes to hiring veterans it's important to note that the vast majority of those 200 employers are opting into our services at no fee so of those that are coming what we always tell
▶ 1:43:46them is if you get value then please continue to come back and so you know as a small business we will no longer exist if we are not offering value to all in our community and making sure that we're doing a way that's trusted and honored um the feedback that we're hearing from employers is that uh I just heard a feedback from an employer that came to 150 strong event for their first time they found two great candidates and they ended up hiring one of them and so we're incredibly appreciative to the employers that are coming prepared
▶ 1:44:16offering Pathways and importantly offering much needed industry-led career preparation as part of the employment sech thank you and Mr Lewis what gaps do you most often see in hiring transition service members civilians say the gaps that we find thank you for the question representative I'd say the gaps that we find most often is that they're still looking for the camaraderie that they had while serving and that's why we've been very diligent and investing in our our veterans advisory panel that just led to hearing
▶ 1:44:46their challenges their concerns and their needs it's helped shape some of the benefit packages that we put forward but I think that that's it the most they've rejoined a team at Consumers Energy but they want to have the same level of a spree ofe that they had in their time in the service so we're very um deliberate about spending time investing time in providing that social outlet so that they can feel a little what they had previously and how do you provide that uh so our veterans advisory panel has weekly and monthly meetings we have an annual event uh where we'll bring
▶ 1:45:17everybody together for Veterans Day to celebrate their service we have outside parties come in and uh we we continue to invest in the benefits policies so we have 30 days of paid military leave that's fully paid we don't require any kind of a a gap fill there we offer one year of complete Gap fill pay as well we provide different mental health offerings it's just being intentional about spending time with veterans listening to their needs and finding programs
▶ 1:45:47that meet those needs and has the feedback been uh positive from the veterans completely positive so I think the national average with uh self self-identified veterans is around 7% we have 12% at Consumers Energy and continue to fill that pipeline we're intentional about going out and finding that Talent very good thank you thank y back gentlemen yield back to chair now recognizes Miss Ramirez from the great state of Illinois my dear friend ma'am five minutes thank you chairman and thank you ranking member for holding today's hearing and and thank you for the witnesses that are
▶ 1:46:17here we know that the current attacks on the vaa its Workforce and its funding are a fing and I personally am deeply concerned about the impact those attacks will have on all veteran programs and services however we know that the unique importance of the transition assistance program has on veteran Lives having ran a homeless shelter where we serve the number of veterans experiencing homelessness I know that the transition from military service to civilian life is distinct and complex from
▶ 1:46:47employment assistance to Mental Health Services housing support and access to continued education are veterans deserve an integrated streamlined comprehensive approach to tap that recognizes their sacrifices honors their needs and also provides them with the necessary tools the resources and the support they need so that they can succeed and while we continue to fight for full funding and Staffing at the V VA given today's conditions we also have to be particularly aware of programs like tap that provide essential support of a mo
▶ 1:47:17at a moment of significant transition in veterans lives instead of Reckless reducing resources and capacity in the VA which has a potential to impact veteran access to and experience of tap we should also we should be instead investing in improvements of the tap program so that we can meet diverse needs of our veterans so I have a couple of questions Miss Craig in your testimony you shared that you believe transitioning out of the military presents unique challenges you said that this includes shifts in identity
▶ 1:47:48needing further education struggling with employment and overall a lack of of support what additional support do you believe is still needed from our federal agencies particularly the VA to ensure that the tap program equips veterans to successfully reintegrate into civilian life thank you for that question congresswoman R uh we the the VFW believes that the VA is doing the best that they can with with you know the resources that they have at the time
▶ 1:48:20um I'm sorry do you do you mind rephrasing your the the question what additional support are there any specific gaps in resources that Congress should be addressing as it pertains to the tap program I wouldn't say necessarily gaps in resources right now the VFW uh is highly supported of the benefits delivery a discharge program which the VA is gracious enough to allow our representatives to go into that one day of their uh tap course uh our bdd reps are able to engage with service members as they're transitioning and Link them
▶ 1:48:50to the VA at the point of discharge which we know that when service members get away from the the military and don't connect with VA particularly within that first year they're even more likely less likely to Circle back to the VA and they miss out on crucial resources and services that the VA provides thank thank you Miss Craig I want to um shift gears now and ask a question um to Miss Carson your testimony highlights a key issue that many veterans face the need for a longer period of plan
▶ 1:49:20separation from military service before that one-year Mark based on available research what do you think is a recommended time frame for service members to begin that transition additionally as you're answering that question how should we account for economic conditions when determining the time frame for example if job growth is slowing or if certain industries are seeing layoffs should we be adjusting the timeline or tailoring resources accordingly thank you for your question ma'am this
▶ 1:49:51is a great one that has been at by tvmi which I referenced and they suggest and we agree that a one year prior to separation it could be extended even more and it's e easy potentially is making information available that's going to be provided at tap available earlier the VA does some of that right now at military it's part of the military life cycle being aware of the benefits that are available before you even begin to separate in terms of being uh sensitive to economic Trends we do need more data on that that isn't always available to those of us who are not
▶ 1:50:21within the government's data collection ction resources and that we could adjust and and be more timely if that were provided one way to do that is to keep a longitudinal study um and look in on service members long before they've left service and continue long Post Service as it and the tvmi would be again a great place to start as a baseline for those questions to see that the four domains of Health that have been identified are sustained thank you Miss Carson I appreciate that I mean
▶ 1:50:51I couldn't agree more we have to improve the system coordination we need to be streamlining dual enrollment processing staff up more Navigators and conduct greater Outreach for the program earlier uh instead however we're trying to stop a staffing Purge that will create needless hardship for veterans the actions of this Administration let me say on the record are not progress they are a door to privatization and they put service members transition to Jeopardy and a shameful the gentle time hased thank you
▶ 1:51:24the gentle lady yields back the chair now recognizes representative King Hines from the Northern Mariana Islands for five minutes thank you Mr chair so I made a promise to uh our local VFW chapter to extend their half a day to the folks here in DC uh who represent the VFW during these testimonies and to say thank you on their behalf um so I'm I hear from Miss Craig
▶ 1:51:54and Miss O'Brien about the importance of um providing spouse services that they are included as part of the tap program and I just wanted to kind of hear more on that subject uh because I do believe that you know when families transition into civilian life it impacts the entire family I want to hear your thoughts on what that would look like thank you for the question uh first and foremost for the duration of a military service member's career
▶ 1:52:25if they have a partner if they are married the military spouse is expected to come alongside and is very active participant often times as we near transition we find that military spouses are often included only on a an uh opportunity where there is space available for them to push in and to sit in and the reality is military spouses carry a huge burden to make a sucessful transition for the entire family we also know that military spouse employment having the opportunity for spouses
▶ 1:52:55to go to work five six years especially one year before transition has a direct impact on how the service member transitions out and the job that they select if we have Financial stability in the home it provides the opportunity for the service member to make the right choice and the right fit in terms of employment and so uh recommendation is certainly that military spouses are included in tap have the opportunity to come alongside and not only on a space available opportunity thank you for that I agree this
▶ 1:53:25this question is also for you so you mentioned that um in in terms of transitioning back into civilian life one of the issue is not necessarily um unemployment but underemployment how can we help address issue uh well uh in terms of what Miss Carson recommended beginning that process at least a minimum of a year out in terms of transition uh we know often times because we we are not uh plugging military service members
▶ 1:53:56into tap at the right time it puts them further and further behind and they are forced then to take a job because there is economic pressure to feed our families to ensure that there's Pathway to Economic Opportunity uh if we can start that that process at minimum a year out uh and it allows them to figure out what is the right career for them what skills do they need to acquire how can they better articulate their soft skills that they bring to employers each of those uh mile markers becomes increasingly more
▶ 1:54:26important and we see those that don't have the time to participate in tap fully and to participate in skillbridge end up underemployed over and over again and so there are programs in place there are nonprofits that have the ability to fill the gaps where needed and to step forward uh and so creating a tighter Synergy uh in that warm handoff is absolutely important and going back to at least minimum of a year participation thank you Mr chairman are you my time
▶ 1:54:56the general lady yields back the chair now recognizes Mr Barrett from the great state of Michigan sir thank you Mr chairman and uh thank you for hosting this committee today and want to thank the panelists for your uh time I know um Miss tman I think you kind of were um explaining through your remarks it reminded me a little bit of the difference between outputs and outcomes so the dod will say well we put this many people through this program this many people went through the Taps program and did this many briefings and everything else but we never ask
▶ 1:55:26well what's the outcome of that we know how many outputs were done but the outcome is still un uncertain from there um and I think that's got to be a shift in focus of what we do is less about how many people we run through a program and more about what the outcome of that is and the deliverable for it for the uh purpose of the veterans that it's supposed to be benefiting so I appreciate your um acknowledgement of that distinct difference um also uh Mr Lewis thank you so much for being here from Michigan appreciate the uh partnership
▶ 1:55:57with uh consumers on the work that you do um employing veterans I know firsthand uh men and women that I served with in the military who ultimately went and worked at consumers and I think a big part of what um veterans are looking for whether they consciously think about it or not is they looking for their next purpose in life so they have a distinct purpose in the military they know that they can feel it there's a mission behind what we do every single day and then as you leave service I think you want to feel
▶ 1:56:27that same sense of purpose or at least a degree of that you understand that militarian civilian life are going to be different and they're not going to be entirely exact but having that sense of purpose is very important and I'm curious if you had any Lessons Learned through the program that you're doing along the way that you've been doing it for over a decade now I believe of some of how you how you build that connection through that sense of purpose perhaps thank you for the question question representative I you know repeating myself but being intentional about it like
▶ 1:56:57you got to get started and I've seen too many employers that just don't get started so pulling a group of veterans together we will figure it out for you we have opinions and we will share them so I think really being intentional about providing time getting that group together hearing their voices they're going to tell you how to recruit veterans where you need to look where we're falling short from a benefits package and with that we can make those changes veterans bring to the workplace a myriad of skills they're Dependable
▶ 1:57:27they work safe they show up on time they execute they know how to work in a team if you get us together in a room we will create the outcomes that are necessary just give us space it is an easy investment for companies to make and far too often we fall short because we're focused on the task at hand where we can solve our own problems by getting folks engaged into their own Futures do you think that um and thank for that do you think that consumers has recognized look there's a real purpose behind what
▶ 1:57:57your company does right it is life critical for you know home heating for electricity for you know all the various things that go into that um do you feel that that provides a natural fit for veterans uh to to really have a very clear answer of the purpose behind the work that they're doing absolutely there is a purpose in our work there's a beginning and an end there's always a mission as we start the day we ride into literal storms sometimes to throw up power lines
▶ 1:58:27veterans connect with that very well cuz they're used to that they're used to being in uncomfortable positions for long periods of time because there's people in need and I think they find a greater outcome a greater opportunity a greater Mission when they do work like providing energy to their citizens thank you and the U the partnership you have with the facility in Potterville that you mentioned um I've toured that facility I've seen it for understand some of the work that they do when I was in the state legislature we got them approved for some of the tuition assistance programs that are available
▶ 1:58:58to our National Guard men and women there can you tell me a little bit about how that has worked from the federal partnership that you described with the Department of Labor so shout out to Amber foger she's my previous co-chair at the veterans advisory panel um she was very intentional with working at the Department of Labor to get seven different apprentiship programs recognized I didn't know that was an option when I was coming out of the service I didn't think about skill trades the fact that you can now take your GI Bill and apply it to those apprenticeship programs and start making significant
▶ 1:59:28incomes immediately after service it's just again being intentional I know the Department of Labor has a program to have apprenticeships recognized she went through that I mean it it is a task for businesses to get involved in but the talent will follow those apprenticeship programs so again be intentional about it thank you and lastly I'll just say to to each of you thank you again for being here I think this really demonstrates that work has there's a dignity that comes along with working and having that continued Mission thank you Mr chair gentl
▶ 1:59:58yields back the chair and I recognizes myself for five minutes again hey um I just going to cover this again I'm going to ask uh Miss Craig how much money do you guys get from the government actually uh Congressman I'm not sure Mr O'Brien I don't believe any we have one solar energy Grant uh from the Department of energy what from the VA from the VA do you get any money from the VA do we yeah no okay Miss
▶ 2:00:30Carson the ivmf receives federal grants from the small business administration and commerce okay but not to VA correct correct Mr leis no dollars from the VA zero Miss Tillman no dollars from the VA okay so once again I'm not going to tolerate anybody fear-mongering with my veterans period so we had the dod here we had everybody here the VA here there's not been a single incident that I can find anywhere where there has been a even the most minuscule
▶ 2:01:00degradation of our ability to provide services or education benefits medical benefits to our veterans so knock it off write that down and if any of you hear about any of that you call me personally we're not going to tolerate I met Elon musk's number one person for the VA not somebody cleaning in the toilets the first words out of his mouth was we will never cut our veterans benefits period And I said that's great that was your opener
▶ 2:01:30because mine was going to be if you tried cutting our veterans benefits I'll rip your oh I almost just Senor Chief there okay we're not going to do it they're not doing it we're not doing it he's not doing it so knock it off period done with that stupid Miss Craig 11 agencies are involved in the the transition assistance program is that I'm sorry chairman you said like 11 agencies are involved in the tap I believe the Miss Carson who who said that I think the
▶ 2:02:00number is higher than that Miss O'Brien and I both said that okay so 11 how many people like how many people out of these 11 agencies full-time equivalent do we have any idea I don't know the answer to that okay well it's it's more than 11 I'm going to say so if we have more than 11 agencies involved in something and we have a 52% success rate uh that's a failure and so what we could probably you know surmise from this is that more agencies doesn't necessarily mean more
▶ 2:02:31better okay that's how unlisted people talk so what we need to do is make sure across the board soldiers Sailors Airmen Marines everybody has the ability to go to this tap program and and here's what's going to change oh sorry Mr Lewis this is what you were trying to say earlier you want to hire veterans cuz they know where to be when to be there what to wear and they're not high right those are big things Mr paps is in the restaurant business he knows what I'm talking about okay nothing's changing
▶ 2:03:03nothing until it is on here in a line item that a commissioned officer is held responsible and let me tell you what I'm talking about the difference between the retirement pay for an ' 05 which would be a squadron commander a Seal Team Commander like a wing Commander you know me the phone Colonel like Colonel Johnson they really Lieutenant Colonel that's a phone Colonel um the difference between the pay for an ' 05 and an ' 06 retirement is $3,000 a month let's
▶ 2:03:33hopefully they live what 40 years we did 30 years that's a million dollar it's a million dollar difference between 05 and 06 retirement so if I go to these screw balls I'm like hey dude you don't have your people go on a tap it's going to cost you a million you will have a 100% 100% attendance rate and that is my intention so
▶ 2:04:03again e7's making $27,000 annually these guys are $78,000 a month annually 05s 06s or $96,000 a month retirement if I tell you right now if anybody's paying attention here all you people in charge of stuff I'm coming for you I am gunning for you 05s and 06s and you're trying to blame it on a first sergeant or Master Chief nope it's on you and we will
▶ 2:04:33charge you a million dollars if you don't use these programs because you're statutorily obligated to do so I don't have any questions you guys think I'm joking I'm okay what do veterans bring to the workplace anger apparently I don't so listen I want to thank you all for being here today for both panels you're awesome I really appreciate your work ma'am you're killing it um however Oshkosh is not my district sorry I just got you um you got his right
▶ 2:05:03though so uh if there's anything we can do collectively as a committee we will do it and I know that's Mr Pap's intention he's a good man and uh we're going to do what we can to help you regardless of your political party affiliation or what you do in your private privacy your home we don't care we just want better for our veterans and I know you do and I thank you very much I think you're doing God's work I I'll recognize Mr papis for any closing comments that you may have no just a brief thank you I really appreciate the contributions of this panel um you are all working in your own capacities
▶ 2:05:33to help meet the needs of those who wear the uniform of this country and their spouses and family members we're really grateful for it I think there's a lot that I learned today uh from you all and the programs that you run uh the way that you open doors of opportunity to Veterans uh and as I said before you know transition assistance has been a work in progress ress over a lot of years it can continue to get better but only if we engage learn these lessons and um help promote smart policies uh and we're all in on that um proposition so thanks
▶ 2:06:04very much I yield back the gentleman yields back ask unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days to revise and extend the remarks and include extraneous materials without objection so ordered this hearing is now adjourned e