▶ 0:06:24Subcommittee will come to order. Want to thank all of you for joining us at this first hearing of the 119th Congress for the subcommittee on transportation, housing, and urban It doesn't go unnoticed that is the 1-year anniversary of the collapse of the Key Bridge.
▶ 0:06:53And we will talk a little bit more about that subject in the course of this hearing. Many other things have happened that are under the jurisdiction of the that are also noteworthy and of recent Want to recognize a couple of new faces on the dais this year. I want to welcome Ms.
▶ 0:07:16Stephanie Bice, vice chair of the from the great state of Oklahoma and Alabama's Dale Strong, he's yet to I'd also note that Mr. Jim Clyburn, my ranking member and chair emeritus and dean of the house, Mr. Hal Rogers, are expected to join us for the subcommittee Albeit when they last served on the subcommittee together, we were solely tasked with the T part of T HUD.
▶ 0:07:43Today, we welcome Chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board, Jennifer Homendy, to the subcommittee. Ms. Homendy, Want to thank you for appearing before us today and for your service uh to the tax-paying public. Want to start off by expressing, on behalf of the entire subcommittee, our heartfelt condolences to the families affected by the tragic American Airlines Army helicopter collision back on January 29th.
▶ 0:08:09This tragedy has been followed by several other incidents from crashes in Philadelphia and Nome, Alaska to the engine fire in Denver 2 weeks ago. Transportation safety has been top of mind across the nation as we look for answers and aim to mitigate the chances of future such incidents. Safety is a top priority for the subcommittee in our work to fund the nation's transportation network.
▶ 0:08:35It's our duty to ensure we provide appropriate levels of support to transportation programs that ensure the safety of our skies, roads, and It is also our duty on the subcommittee to support the operations of the National Transportation Safety Board or This critical independent safety watchdog helps ensure our world-class transportation system is as safe as identifying the how and why of some of our most tragic accidents and puzzling events
▶ 0:09:06in civil transportation. We are proud on the subcommittee to provide the resources necessary for Chair Homendy and her team to execute this mission. Most recently, I was proud to secure an anomaly to the FY25 full-year continuing resolution to help provide Chair Homendy with the necessary resources for her team to accomplish their statutory Be it the Key Bridge that we talked about earlier, the East Palestine trail uh train derailment, or the aviation incidents that
▶ 0:09:36have occurred far too often in recent years, Chairwoman Homendy's team are some of the first on the scene. In 2025, we secured a 3.6% increase for the NTSB appropriation to 145 million. We know, Chairwoman Homendy, that you put these funds to good use. Under your leadership, the NTSB has dramatically reduced the average age of open investigations, getting reports out to the public faster.
▶ 0:10:04With that, uh I'd um it'd be appropriate to recognize, when he gets here, the ranking the ranking member of this subcommittee, the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Clyburn. In the absence of that, however, I'm going to recognize the chairman of the full committee of the House Appropriations Committee, my good friend from the great state of Oklahoma, Tom Cole. Thank you very much, Chairman Womack, and thank you when he arrives to the ranking member Clyburn.
▶ 0:10:30It's always good to be with my good friend, the ranking member of the full committee, so um happy to see you again, and uh Chairwoman Homendy, thank you very much for appearing before us today. Uh our nation's transportation systems are relied on by Americans and passengers from across the globe. We not only expect, but demand that they reflect the gold standard in safety. Yet, recent accidents in our skies, waterways, and railways have raised serious concerns and questions.
▶ 0:11:00From the midair collision at Reagan Washington National Airport, which my friend the chairman referred to, to the Francis Scott Key Bridge collision, these tragedies have brought devastating loss and underscored the need to ensure these situations are never repeated. The bottom line is, when you get on a plane, drive over a bridge, or board a train, you shouldn't have to wonder if you'll make it to your destination safely.
▶ 0:11:25The mission of Chairwoman Homendy and her team at the National Transportation Safety Board is essential to that achieving that objective. They investigate why an accident occurred and identify measures to prevent it from happening again.
▶ 0:11:40They don't speculate, they find the facts necessary to uphold the highest standards of reliability and It's for these objectives of improving safety and saving lives that we've prioritized increased resources for the NTSB in our FY25 and FY24 funding measures. During my time on this subcommittee, I secured an 8.2% increase to your funding and I must say you put it to very good use.
▶ 0:12:06So, you are an excellent steward of public money. Uh and I'm very pleased that my friend the chairman built on that and uh in Uh again, I greatly value our interactions and work together, Chairwoman DeLauro, and I look forward to a continued engagement. This subcommittee, as it always has, uh under both Democratic and Republican stewardship, will continue to ensure safety is an utmost priority in the funding decisions we make.
▶ 0:12:37Your agency is a fulfillment of that priority. As we begin the FY26 appropriations process, I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to responsibly fund this critical safety mission and transportation infrastructure needs of the country. So, thank you Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Cole. Uh and now it is my great honor and privilege to welcome the ranking member of the full committee, gentlelady from Connecticut, Ms. DeLauro.
▶ 0:13:08Floor's yours. Thank you so much, uh Mr. Chairman. It's a uh great to be with you here this morning and and with the chairman and uh who is a dear friend and uh I appreciate the opportunity uh to be here at this hearing and uh I want to say a thank you to uh Chairwoman DeLauro. Um I really welcome to the committee. Uh, it's an important and very, very important hearing uh, today. It's a topic that impact impacts every one of our districts.
▶ 0:13:37Safety and the security of our nation's transportation systems. Um, and it does come in the wake of several heartbreaking and deeply concerning tragedies in our nation's skies. Um, in addition to that, what happened with the Key Bridge as well as a one in our skies as well as involving carrier at Toronto's Pearson Pearson Airport. Just let me just say a word.
▶ 0:14:00I've always so admired, um, to the point of I view that I spent a lot of time in the food safety area. And we have 15 agencies at the federal level that deal deal with our food safety. Two primarily are the FDA and the USDA. And wanting to have for years and years have wanted to consolidate and have one single food safety agency.
▶ 0:14:29The example I always use is the NTSB because when something happens, you go in, you get the facts, and then you tell us what happened and you make your recommendations instead of a whole bunch of agencies pointing fingers at one another. So, thank you really for the strength of this agency. You're a small agency, but with a tremendously important mission.
▶ 0:14:53Investigate, help Congress and the American people understand how and why aviation and other transportation disasters happen. The independence of the NTSB is critical to its mission. We cannot tolerate any outside pressure, political or otherwise, to influence the investigation of and the reporting on transportation incidents. However, broadly speaking, the current administration has shown, limited respect for the independence of the agencies.
▶ 0:15:20I would like to know how we can continue to advocate the agency's independence in support of the NTSB's fact-finding and reporting abilities uh to Congress. Uh unfortunately, after 17 years without a fatal accident involving a US carrier, 67 lives were lost in the Potomac River earlier this year when a PSA Airlines flight operating for American Eagle collided with a US Army helicopter just seconds before attempting to land at Washington's
▶ 0:15:51National Airport. Two nights later, a Medevac flight crashed into a populated area of Philadelphia taking the lives of all on board and one person on the ground. And then in February, a Cessna Caravan crashed in Alaska leaving no survivors. With recent reports of near-miss incidents and runway incursions, the American people are deeply concerned about the safety of our aviation system.
▶ 0:16:16While we need to assure the American people that our commercial aviation system is the safest and the most reliable air system in the world, I am concerned with how the administration is approaching aviation safety and the conflicts of interest involved in billionaire Elon Musk pursuing FAA to contract his own Starlink service rather than engaging in a thorough safety-driven analysis.
▶ 0:16:42Cuts and decisions at FAA are out of your jurisdiction and beyond the purview of this hearing, but I do want to discuss how this administration has responded to recent incidents. NTSB's fact-finding abilities are helped by long-standing policies and an industry culture that encourages flight crew members and air traffic controllers to report any and all incidents that take place rather than placing blame before
▶ 0:17:13we know the facts. We need airspace operators to feel comfortable, compelled to self-report any incidents and diversions from procedures that take place. However, in the immediate aftermath of the Potomac crash, we saw the president, the vice president, and the secretary of defense blaming, {quote} DEI, as the reason for the crash before any facts were known.
▶ 0:17:41We cannot afford to put the cart before the horse when it comes to aviation safety. We cannot lay blame on pilots or air traffic controllers or any other personnel until after the NTSB uncovers and reports on the facts. And the preliminary report showed no role for DEI. It's follow the facts. That is all we are asking.
▶ 0:18:09We cannot overstate the critical importance your agency plays in keeping our families, our colleagues, and our fellow Americans safe. I know you have a deep awareness of this, and I hope you will do whatever necessary to protect and defend NTSB's authorities and prerogatives when it comes to transportation safety.
▶ 0:18:27Finally, I would like to know how working with agencies such as Department of Transportation, who are operating under a continuing resolution rather than a full year funding bill that addresses current and near future needs, affects your collaborative work, ongoing investigations, and the need to close out thousands of transportation safety recommend recommendations in general.
▶ 0:18:50Um, I wish that we had been able to finish the job uh on the uh uh 2000 uh uh on fiscal year 2025 funding bills. We were on the brink of a bipartisan agreement between the four corners of the Appropriations Committees when the House majority decided to upend the process and pursue a partisan bill that does not fully meet the needs of any department or agency across the government and that instead have handed a blank check in my view to Elon Musk and to President Trump.
▶ 0:19:20I implore this committee to get back on track to work towards bipartisan consensus for this subcommittee's bill and the rest of the appropriations bills for 2026. Thank you and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady. The ranking member of the subcommittee has arrived and has informed me that he will waive his opening statement and we'll go to questions here a little bit later on. With that Chairwoman Dee, we turn to you now for your opening statement. Your full written statement will also be included the record.
▶ 0:19:51Chair recognizes you for 5 minutes. Thank you and good morning Chairman Womack, Ranking Member Clyburn and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to provide an overview of the NTSB's activities.
▶ 0:20:05I also want to recognize that it was a year ago today that I got the call shortly after 1:29 about the collision of the Dali with the Key Bridge and the fatally injured six crew construction crew members on the bridge as well as two serious injuries, one on the Dali and one on the bridge and our deepest condolences
▶ 0:20:36I want to offer for the families and all the loved ones this tragic event and our thoughts and prayers continue to go out to you as we pursue this I want to start by thanking you for your incredible support of the NTSB and our critical safety mission including the increase in our FY25 funding to $145 million in the CR.
▶ 0:21:05The funding you provided is necessary to support the staffing, training, and technology we need to maintain our reputation across the globe as the gold standard in accident investigations. With your support, we'll be able to increase our agency size to 450 on-boards. It's currently 427, which I can talk about. That would bring us closer to truly full staffing of about 500 personnel.
▶ 0:21:33The fact is the NTSB has hovered around 400 personnel over the past three decades. We need to grow to improve performance, meet increasing demands, and keep pace with emerging challenges. As you know, the NTSB is an independent agency charged with investigating and establishing the facts, circumstances, and probable cause of accidents and serious incidents in the US in all modes of transportation.
▶ 0:22:02We also serve as the United States accredited representative under international treaty and lead the US's response to the investigation of hundreds of accidents that occur overseas annually. The NTSB also delivers a family assistance program, which focuses on facilitating the recovery and identification of fatally injured passengers involved in the accidents we investigate, and communicating with families throughout the course of our Our current investigative
▶ 0:22:32workload includes almost 1,250 accident active investigations in all 50 states, including Puerto Rico. Including in many of your districts, in addition to supporting more than 160 foreign investigations in over 50 Throughout a typical year, we work in about on about 2,200 domestic and 450 foreign cases, and we expect the number of cases annually to remain high and continue
▶ 0:23:02to increase in complexity. I want to take a few moments to provide updates on two of our major investigations. Earlier this month, we issued a preliminary report and urgent safety recommendations to the FAA in response to the mid-air collision at I want to commend Secretary Buttigieg for his swift acceptance of these recommendations.
▶ 0:23:23The Secretary and the Acting Administrator of FAA have been tremendous partners throughout the course of this investigation and in many others, and I want to thank them for their focus on safety. Just last week, as part of our ongoing investigation of the Dali collision with the Key Bridge, we issued urgent safety recommendations to 30 owners of 68 bridges, which I also can discuss. There is still much work to be done in both of these investigations, and we'll keep this committee updated on our progress.
▶ 0:23:54Some investigations, understandably, get more public attention than others, but all of our investigations are critical for improving transportation safety. We owe it to the families of those involved, to the communities where accidents occurred, and to the traveling public to find out what happened, why it happened, to prevent it from happening In 2024, we issued 132 new safety recommendations across all modes of transportation, nearly 60% of which have already been implemented
▶ 0:24:25voluntarily by the recommendation recipients. This success rate demonstrates the value of our safety recommendations and our work with stakeholders to improve safety, and I think this is an important point that I want to emphasize. The NTSB doesn't regulate. We don't want to. The NTSB doesn't have enforcement authority. We don't want it. Why?
▶ 0:24:47Because our singular focus is on saving lives, and almost all of our safety recommendations we issue are dependent on voluntary action of the recipients. In other words, it's a true partnership on safety. Chairman Womack, you once said that we punch above our weight. That's true. We run lean with a highly skilled, highly valued workforce, many of whom are here today or watching online. To them I say, I could not be more proud of you.
▶ 0:25:16It is an absolute honor, a privilege to serve you and the American people each and every day. I want to thank you for having me and I look forward to answering your questions and I'll just note that Vice Chairman Brown is here today as well. Fantastic. Well, delighted you're here and grateful for the leadership that you give this organization and the American people.
▶ 0:25:44Having said that, recognizing that they have a lot of other important things that they need to the ranking member and myself are going to delay our questions so that we can go straight to the overall chairman of the Appropriations Committee and then the overall ranking member of the Appropriations Committee, get their questions out of the way so they can go about their business and being respectful of their time and also understanding, I know who I work for.
▶ 0:26:12with that said, I'm going to recognize my good friend again from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole. You also know how to get our nose out of your business as fast as you can, it's a pleasure to be back here and couldn't be uh, prouder of this committee on both sides of the aisle and particularly this chairman, but also your agency. Uh, we really really do appreciate you being there in really difficult times and helping us understand what happened and making sure it doesn't happen again.
▶ 0:26:39Toward that end, and you touched on some of this in your testimony, and I know we don't have a final report yet on the Francis Scott Key Bridge incident, but I think you released recently that there were a couple of electrical outages on the dolly as it approached the bridge and I'm curious if you can tell us at this point and when how did you detect that instead of curiosity for myself but is this common on vessels like this or was this a sign perhaps of negligence on the part of the crew?
▶ 0:27:10That's part of our investigation that we are still looking into. Uh there were two electrical outages and then there electrical outages the day before. They are we determined those were unrelated and are and announced that in our preliminary report as the day before it was due to uh planned maintenance. Uh and uh that is not something that they would undertake underway in transit.
▶ 0:27:38Uh but the electrical outages themselves we're still looking into. That is part of our investigation. I do want to thank uh some of our partners at Hyundai for coming uh to help us. Uh we got down to the component subcomponent level and were on uh the dolly for about a month uh with our team. So that does continue. And then we also have the bridge team focused on the bridge itself and safety.
▶ 0:28:07Is there anything about the bridge you can tell us at this point? So for the bridge itself while it passed annual inspections which really focus on the condition of the bridge uh what we did is um AASHTO the state highway transportation officials uh recommended in 1991 and then again in 2009 that uh bridge owners conduct a vulnerability assessment of their bridges to determine if there's risk and to evaluate that risk and
▶ 0:28:37take action if if warranted. Um the that did not occur uh for the Francis Scott Key Bridge and so we had asked MDTA uh if they had done the vulnerability assessment. They had not done it, and we looked for data for that vulnerability assessment. They didn't have the data, so we had to get the data over the course of Usually takes about a year to do these vulnerability assessments. We did it in 6 months.
▶ 0:29:06We got a ton of data, and then um ran the calculations, and what we found was that the bridge was almost 30 times greater than the risk that threshold that AASHTO uh sets for critical bridges, and uh the pier Pier 17, which was struck by the Dali, was almost 15 times greater.
▶ 0:29:28Uh so, we recommended as a result of that that 30 bridge owners uh of uh 68 bridges conduct a vulnerability assessment to determine risk, and if warranted, take immediate Thank you very much for that. Uh let me turn quickly We We've obviously had some some incidents in our air travel that are are concerning to all of us.
▶ 0:29:51Um and you've made several recommendations over the past decade, frankly, regarding aviation safety management system or SMS. While the FAA, I'm told, has implemented requirements for major airlines, we continue to see delays in extending some of these requirements to other aviation sectors, including manufacturers, maintenance facilities, smaller operations.
▶ 0:30:14But which of your specific recommendations do you think would be most important to apply across the board to ensure the maximum safety for uh the flying public? Well, for SMS partic- in particular, what you uh stated, we have recommendations on SMS across all modes of transportation, but in aviation in particular, the focus has been on commercial aviation.
▶ 0:30:38Uh and the commercial airlines have had SMS since 2015, but it's been a very piecemeal approach across the aviation industry. For uh main aviation manufacturers, uh there was a final rule uh issued in May of 2024. Uh and that doesn't go into effect until 2027. So, Boeing, for example, is in the early stages of implementing that, but it's the very early stages.
▶ 0:31:03Uh for other sectors, part 135, that's the charter and air taxis, uh they began the process of SMS at FAA, but that hasn't been finalized. Maintenance facilities, there's no requirement for that. Part 91, which are the air tours, uh also do not have uh requirements for safety management systems. It should be one level of safety for passengers. That's what we believe, and uh the piecemeal approach isn't working. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:31:33I yield back. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cole. Now, the uh ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Larsen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh let me just follow up a bit on the um uh the the findings that uh that by the 30 owners of the 68 bridges uh and and the potential risks there. Um and and I'll have more questions for uh USDOT about their work to address your your your key findings.
▶ 0:31:59I I think it's critical to underline the important state-federal partnerships um at work here. Uh that includes collaboration by the board, USDOT, and other federal agencies, and state departments of transportation. What more can this committee do to make sure that we are supporting the collaboration, improving our oversight of these specific bridges? Um and there are a number of members here who have uh you know, uh uh key bridges.
▶ 0:32:29Yeah, for the for uh bridges itself, and a lot came out since our preliminary report, including a report from Johns Hopkins and then we had a report on infrastructure showing bridges got a C It's not a matter of if, it is a matter of when something happens. Vessel collisions happen all the time with bridges and we have to take proactive measures to ensure safety whether it's Federal Highway Administration and partners with the bridge owners.
▶ 0:32:59In this hardening bridges it could be anything from dolphins, it could be a fender systems. After the our investigation of the Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Tampa, Florida in 1980, they made substantial improvements to their bridges but that was also a vessel collision with a collapse and 35 people died.
▶ 0:33:23There were a lot of lessons learned there and as a result of of that investigation a lot of improvements came but now these bridge owners need to ensure that they're safe. I I just would say I I think it would be helpful if we could understand or make recommendations as it has to do with State Department of Transportation.
▶ 0:33:45In other words, to prevent rather than to react when when something's significant is a loss of lives, you know, here are the 35, you know, and and and so I think that that that focus would be would be helpful. And and a lot of our recommendations for these bridge owners, a lot of them are either in some cases the federal government, the US Army Corps of Engineers and other cases State Departments of Transportation. Well, let me get the get get to that question.
▶ 0:34:11I want to hear about more about your experience with federal agencies including obviously the US Department of Transportation at the at this time. We we have seen a termination of employees in the agencies. For DOT, 790 employees terminated, 340 were from the FAA, 170 from Federal Highway Administration.
▶ 0:34:34More than 20 employees terminated from DOT's Office of the Inspector General, which we all know is a watchdog for waste, fraud, and abuse, and who has had a hand in transportation as well. Although the majority of the investigations are conducted by the NTSB staff, you have to call on the expertise of other federal agencies to deal with fact-finding efforts, making recommendations to agencies such as DOT, as well as the you referenced the Army Corps of Engineers, US Coast Guard.
▶ 0:35:02What are some of the tradeoffs that you see with these agencies during times of uncertainty, where field and regional staffing become strained, and operations may become overall unpredictable? Are you concerned about our ability to close out the thousands of transportation safety recommendations as there is a my view an indiscriminate approach to cutting the federal It would be difficult for me to as the chair of the NTSB to understand the positions
▶ 0:35:33of these individuals for the Department of Transportation. We have 427 employees, and I will say that we didn't lose one probationary employee. We got hiring exemptions from the administration. We got an exemption from deferred resignation program. We got tremendous support.
▶ 0:35:55And we continue to get support from the as a result of the hard work of our workforce. So we have not experienced any of that, and I've maintained our workforce.
▶ 0:36:10love to because you know, my my time will run out but that to understand what this means in terms of your relationships with the other agencies with which you need need to do business to get information, etc., where If haven't had that experience of the of of uh laying off of of employees, other agencies have which you directly relate to, which may have an impact.
▶ 0:36:36The other piece of this is whether or not whether or not you are prepared or you have an authorized level of funding, but no one could foresee some of these efforts which have happened. Would very much like to know what this means in terms of the resources that NTSB needs in order to be able to address the significant issues that have come your way. You weren't they weren't planned, but they've come your way and how you're going to be able to deal with it. That would be important for us to know.
▶ 0:37:08Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, gentle lady from Connecticut. Uh Chair Homendy, you mentioned in your testimony that it is your mission to basically advise, take data from serious incidents, and then make recommendations, though you have no authority to implement those.
▶ 0:37:29You have no authority to enforce such a a So, let's go back to the to the mid-air collision that happened back on January the 29th. It did It involved a helicopter, and we have a up to that point had had a lot of helicopter traffic up and down the Potomac, and particularly on what we now know as route four.
▶ 0:37:56Um but there had been recommendations, I'm assuming, made previously about the uh combination of helicopter traffic and passenger jet service flying into and out of Reagan National Airport. Had uh had there been recommendations on helicopter traffic specifically with regard to route four, which is right across the Potomac?
▶ 0:38:21We had not issued any recommendations regarding route four, but certainly as part of this investigation that is one of our big focus. So, when you did your there were some pretty alarming uh conclusions made. Perhaps most alarming to me was the number of times, and I I think this went back to like 2021.
▶ 0:38:44I I can't remember, but four or five years, that there the number of times where the horizontally and the separation very dangerous. Uh and as as I understand it, in vertical separation, less than 75 ft.
▶ 0:39:06So, can you speak to the conclusions that your team has come up with in uh in researching serious incidents uh prior Yes, and uh what we did is we looked at FAA surveillance data. And then uh voluntary reporting system data. So, that's reporting from pilots, uh reporting from air traffic control. Those are voluntary reporting systems.
▶ 0:39:32And then there's a mandatory reporting system uh for occurrences in air traffic control. And what the data showed us is that there were 15,214 close proximity events from 2021 through 2024 at DCA between helicopters and and When federal agencies respond to your recommendations across the spectrum of them, not just particularly this case,
▶ 0:40:04what are the hesitancies involved in uh because I'm assuming they don't they don't they don't accept all the recommendations. They don't implement all of the recommendations. Uh what are the various, and I'll use the word excuses, but what are the various reasons why many of the things that are recommended by the NTSB never find their way into certain protocols? Sometimes they'll use cost. Cost?
▶ 0:40:29That it it they'll say the cost does is not justified by the benefits. I will say one thing that we're looking at as part of this investigation is ADSB out and ADSB in. ADSB out is required for commercial aircraft and has been since 2020, but ADSB in is not required.
▶ 0:40:52We've been on record since 2008 that ADSB in should be mandated. But the FAA has used cost as a reason not to mandate that. What that would have done or could have done and we'll look at that as part of this investigation is the CRJ, the plane had ADSB out.
▶ 0:41:15It did not have ADSB in, though American does have some Airbus planes that do have ADSB in that could have provided them some information about the helicopter positioning and flight path. But that information was not not available to them. We'll look at how ADSB in could have helped as well as out including in air traffic control throughout our investigation.
▶ 0:41:40Of all of the data-driven conclusions that were made including the vertical and horizontal separation, what was most alarming to I think what is most alarming to me, well, two things. That you had reporting over years.
▶ 0:41:58In fact, there was reporting going There was data going back to 2011 that traffic collision alerts were going off monthly as a result of close proximity uh, helicopters and that's from 2011 through 2024. And so for me, all this data is being collected by FAA, uh, from operators, from others, from voluntary reporting systems.
▶ 0:42:23Where is that data going to trend potential accidents and incidents in that in the future? The next accident is in the data right now. And what are we doing, uh, to figure out what that is?
▶ 0:42:37The other, uh, uh, most alarming to me is how nobody figured out based on the glide slope going into runway 33 that if you look at the helicopter route, that there's only 75 ft of separation between a plane coming in uh, to runway 33 max. That's 75 ft max. Uh, that, uh, route doesn't have, uh, lateral boundaries.
▶ 0:43:07Uh, so and and in fact in this case, the helicopter was to the right of the route. Uh, so it's a very small margin if, uh, for error. Thank you, Mr. Clyburn. Thank you very much, uh, Mr. Chairman, Chairman Co, ranking member De Lauro, and members of the committee, thank you all so much and thank you, uh, very much.
▶ 0:43:32I want you to know that on last evening I submitted my opening statement that I, uh, with hope, uh, that will be entered into the record. But there's one particular Without objection. thing in the opening statement that I would like to emphasize. But let me first, uh, join you in welcoming, uh, the chair, uh, here today. Uh, I always stumble over pronouncing her name. Uh, Homendy.
▶ 0:43:57Uh, thank you so much and, uh, board member Brown, uh, it's good to see you, a long time my And, um, as we say down south, homeboy. Uh, thank you so much for being here. In fact, the the part of my opening statement I want to emphasize here just uh, for a moment, um, is this. Uh, my belief uh, that safety is non-negotiable.
▶ 0:44:26Uh, is not a nice thing to have but rather a bare minimum as a necessity. Uh, and private profit should not be uh, at the expense of the public safety and security of our transportation systems and the American people. Now, I travel back and forth to South Carolina weekly.
▶ 0:44:51And um, I become very familiar with your board uh, in large part uh, I shared the seat uh, with chair uh, who chaired this board through several administrations. Uh, and we talked a lot uh, about your duties and responsibilities. And particularly, I'm about this whole question of efficiency.
▶ 0:45:21And as the chair will tell I'm a stickler for effectiveness. That's the E that I'm particularly concerned with. And so, in view of the fact that in order for you to effectively do your job there must be interactions other agencies.
▶ 0:45:43We had a round table in here and yesterday when all the talk was about You cannot operate in a silo. In my old home county of Mr. Brown, Beaufort the Marine Air Station is located on one side of a bridge. Parris Island is on the other side of the bridge.
▶ 0:46:11Uh, the Naval Hospital is two or three bridges. So, in order for you to do your job, you've got to interact with several other agencies.
▶ 0:46:25And so, when you start talking about building and getting rid uh, of staff, it seems to to me that you are going to be challenged or could be challenged very significantly in carrying out your duties responsibly. So, uh, if you could tell me just a little bit about in your agency.
▶ 0:46:52I know that you have not had to reduce anybody, but have you made any projections as to what's going to be required going forward? Uh, what is going to be cost for you to interact with these other agencies to step out outside of your comfort zone a little bit to add safety and security to your job, the results of your job? Have you done any of that in in in your preparations for the future? Yes.
▶ 0:47:20So, uh, right now, we at the end of the year, we had 440 employees and we I brought that up from high 300s when I came in as chair. Uh, but, uh, since the end of the year, we've lost some employees to retirement or they went to the private sector, so we're down to 427. You've given us the ability to go up to 450 and we're hiring.
▶ 0:47:42We have a hiring exemption right now in 14 jobs currently, uh, that are posted on USA Jobs to bring in Um, the hiring exemption currently applies to, uh, our, uh, investigative staff and maybe a couple of staff outside that like training specialists, but in order to bring in people, I still need the support team at the NTSB. I can't lose them. I need people in the CFO.
▶ 0:48:10I need people at Chief Financial Officer. I need people in CIO for information technology. I need people who can hire. I need people who are focused on the safety and health of our employees. So that support team, I don't have that hiring exemption for them at this time, but it's something that I can request.
▶ 0:48:32Right now our focus is on the investigative staff because we have a pretty big workload and we have hiring exemptions there, but to get to full staffing, we really need to get to between 485 and 500 personnel. That would get us to full staffing, which is why we have requested for FY 26 more funding than we're currently authorized for. So we're authorized for 148.
▶ 0:48:58We are hoping for 156 or as close as we can to it because we need to get to that higher level because we have we run lean. We have a short bench. I mean, Clint Cruickshanks behind me, he is a structural engineer. He was at the door plug 1282 DCA. He's got one backup. We are looking to hire two more.
▶ 0:49:26But he has a caseload of 20 other cases. So what we risk, first of all, I will say when we hire, these are highly skilled professionals. These are experts in their field. And so getting them is a challenge. Retaining them is a challenge if they're burning out because they're on duty 365 days a year and constantly uh, missing family engagements, holidays, you name it.
▶ 0:49:55Uh, we had a a number of investigators that spent Thanksgiving overseas. So, our biggest risk right now because our personnel makes us the gold standard for accident investigations, our biggest risk is not having that redundancy in our personnel, and that's what we're looking to accomplish in growing. Before I go to Thank Thank you.
▶ 0:50:19Before I go to Sheriff Rutherford, just anecdotally, uh, in life comes at your members, your your staff, just like life comes at all of us. Uh, and as it is in regard to your gentleman behind you, he lost his mom right in the middle of this this whole aircraft investigation incident over the Potomac. So, um, and you don't just hire people like this gentleman off the street.
▶ 0:50:47It does take some time to to have their their credentials. It also takes about 3 to 5 years in training to get, uh, the new hires up to be able to take over a major investigation. That is a significant investment on our part. Sheriff Rutherford. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 0:51:09Chair, Chairman Cole, and Ranking Member DeLauro, and thank you, uh, Chair uh, Hammonds for being here this morning, and and I'd be remiss if I didn't point out uh, and say hello to my former Mayor Alvin Brown. Uh, great to see you again, Mayor.
▶ 0:51:27I I want to go back to the report on um, that you released in the middle of the Francis Scott Key that to me is highly unusual for you all to do that, which means you're thinking there's a real serious issue here that we need to be paying attention to.
▶ 0:51:52And so, when I when I look at this report, it becomes even more important to me when I see one of my major bridges, the Dames Point, the Napoleon Bonaparte Dames Point Bridge, is on that report, and it's part of the uh infrastructure. Hundreds of cars sit on that bridge every day, uh twice a day.
▶ 0:52:22Uh and and I see under the classification, it's critical and essential. And so, can you can you tell me is is that is that a description of the bridge's function, or is that a uh a classification of the bridge's That's a classification that AASHTO, the state highway transportation officials give to bridges
▶ 0:52:52in their guide, in their standard. They designate bridges either as critical essential, um meaning passengers have to get it it's a key corridor, it's a key route. So, it's more the use than the And then there's others that are typical. That's correct.
▶ 0:53:12But but there there's also a tremendous amount of exposure on this bridge because it sits in between it cuts right through our Jaxport operation, which is shipping coming in and out uh all day every day. And and it literally splits the port. Um so, I I'm I'm really going to go back and get with FDOT and after your testimony and find out what we're doing uh in in regards to that. So, I thank you for for that.
▶ 0:53:42Is there Are there any critical next steps that you think we in Congress can do to expedite the number of what, 68, 69 bridges that haven't been evaluated yet?
▶ 0:54:00Uh I would just to encourage bridge owners and to work with the Federal Highway Administration and the US uh Coast Guard and Army Corps of Engineers who we also recommended to help provide guidance and assistance to the states in order to um do their vulnerability assessments. We're not saying these are bridges that are at risk of collapse if there's a vessel collision.
▶ 0:54:29What we're saying is to figure it out. Look and see if it is at risk, do those mathematical calculations, and if you determine there is, then you have that information where you can take proactive action before something terrible occurs. Let Let Let me ask uh as a as a former uh first responder myself, I've I've worked closely with your team on a on several severe incidents that occurred in our jurisdiction.
▶ 0:55:02but I never and and sometimes it was fits and starts, it depended who showed up, how smoothly everything went. Um is is there any type of training uh that we could support for NTSB to work with some state and local first responders on how how we can prepare scenes for you before you show up?
▶ 0:55:28Uh those sorts of things that um we can be a force multiplier for you uh before your investigators do show up. Well, Eric Grossof, who is our chief of special operations, is going to be really happy you asked that question, because he in particular, he runs our response operations center, and he his entire focus is reaching out to law enforcement and firefighters to educate them on what the NTSB's
▶ 0:55:58process is and how they can be helpful. My dream would be or my goal would be to give him additional personnel, uh, four or five people, so that he can split up the country and they could be very focused in regions on helping uh, first responders to be able to be, uh, to work with them on the initial, uh, stages of an accident. Uh, we do that now.
▶ 0:56:28I actually, uh, speak at a course at the FBI, uh, training center in Quantico, uh, to that is focused on law enforcement officers in hopes of developing that relationship before something tragic occurs. Very good.
▶ 0:56:47but also, uh, It's It's the four or five people would be, uh, on We estimate a with training about 200,000 per, uh, employee because of travel and everything else. That's not their That's not how much they make. Uh, so It's a sm- small investment with a big payoff. We appreciate that. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I I uh, assume my time is up. I yield back, but I I will tell you I think that's something that we really need to look at.
▶ 0:57:16Talk about bang for your buck. the NTSB even gets there, we can be working for them. And so, I I'd appreciate a look at that. Thank you, Chair. This is Representative Thank you, Chairman, and thank you very much for the work that you all do. Um you had indicated that there had been 1,500 near collisions near the the airspace around the Reagan Airport.
▶ 0:57:46Is that for the last couple of years? Did I hear that right? 15,214 close proximity events. That doesn't mean uh that they were near collisions, but close proximity events where the vertical and lateral separation was too small of a margin. Yeah. That was in That was dating back to '21?
▶ 0:58:07Uh '21 to were you Did Did your organization make observations about how to improve those those those particular threats of safety?
▶ 0:58:26We just issued urgent recommendations to the FAA, which they did swiftly adopt uh to uh prohibit uh helicopter traffic while uh uh planes are landing or take departing on Runway 15 and Runway 33, and uh to determine an alternative route that could be in use while uh aircraft are coming in on those run that runway. May I ask, when were those recommendations made?
▶ 0:58:56Was that after this particular collision? Uh that was on uh March 11th. We issued urgent safety recommendations as a result of our investigation. So, that's after the collision. Yes. Even though this has been a problem this sort of proximity issue has been a problem since at least 2021 that we've tracking. Is that right? Uh we were not tracking that as part of our investigation.
▶ 0:59:21We got that data from FAA as part of our investigation, and that's what we were able to uh begin basing our urgent safety recommendations on. Thank you. Um totally out of the box question. My understanding is that there is a concept called single pilot operations and that there are European countries that are considering this.
▶ 0:59:47This results in reducing crew operations during Uh from a safety perspective, do you have a position on this? We have not issued a recommendation on two pilots.
▶ 1:00:01However, in the Austin near miss investigation, we had a finding that said the pilots uh in the FedEx plane, which were two, it was the two pilots and the fact that there were two two pilots that really saved the day uh that day and prevented a collision and and potential fatalities. So, some of us who are like being told all the time flying is the safest way of traveling, we're scared right now actually.
▶ 1:00:29Uh one last question as um that I I want to understand was there the president of the United States made a really very poor unsubstantiated lack of evidence comment about this um collision at Reagan. And he said that it was related to DEI. Diversity, equity, and inclusion.
▶ 1:00:57I know that's crazy, but did you find anything in the investigation thus far that would support that notion that the this accident happened because of diversity, equity, and inclusion? I was in the Oval Office that morning and met with the president and the vice president and Secretary Heckathorne Buttigieg, and the FAA administrator.
▶ 1:01:26And I did go to the press briefing. The president held a moment of silence. He talked about the focus on safety for the investigation. He talked about having a report quickly. cuz my time has expired. I just need you to answer that particular aspect of my question.
▶ 1:01:48Was there a legitimate reason for the president to associate the tragedy that took place with the with equity, and inclusion, which means that we weren't holding pilots to be all white straight males. Yes or no. Yes or no is the answer. Was there any Did you find anything for the president, and we haven't finished our investigation.
▶ 1:02:18Okay. Well, I I do hope that when you finish your investigation, that There was a preliminary report. Well, okay. Did your preliminary report include anything about it? We We still have to evaluate all training and qualifications documents.
▶ 1:02:33just tell you, this is not the time allow these misstatements to be made and to be unaccounted for, because it negatively impacts both what the general public thinks and is concerned about, but it also impacts the people who are trying to do their jobs.
▶ 1:02:56And there's nothing that we have found that diversity, equity, and inclusion has created negatively in people doing their job. On the contrary, loyalty and sycophants seems to be the order of the day, and it's definitely negatively impacting this federal government doing his job. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I do yield back. I try to be very generous in in how and how I preside.
▶ 1:03:27Um But, it's time to move on. Ms. Bryce. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Chair Hammondy, for being with us this morning. Um I first want to start out you mentioned that you had issued a urgent safety recommendation to close Route 4 on March the 11th. There was a previous recommendation to close Route 4 through the end of March, as I understand it. How long is this urgent safety recommendation going to be in place?
▶ 1:03:54Uh so, the Route 4 closure was actually FAA's decision. That's something that Secretary Duffy did voluntarily to address safety once this uh collision occurred. That was going to be in place until March 31st, and he was waiting to get our preliminary report to see what we came up with.
▶ 1:04:13Uh so, we were in close uh communications, and uh as a result of that, we did identify some serious safety issues and issue that urgent safety recommendation to close And do you know if is that in effect in perpetuity, or what time frame will that be in effect? Uh Secretary Duffy has adopted the recommendations, and my understanding is right now it is permanent.
▶ 1:04:37Uh but, uh certainly it is up to them if they want to look for an alternative I had the great pleasure of visiting uh with you and your staff, and I was in so incredibly impressed with the job that you and your team are doing, and particularly Clint, uh your investigative uh lead there, who is really phenomenal and such a wealth of knowledge. And I think that leads me to maybe a follow-up uh line of questioning as it relates to employees and staffing.
▶ 1:05:09the people that work at your organization have such incredible experience. It takes time. I believe uh Clint is a structural engineer by trade if I remember correctly. And so uh taking that knowledge and being able to utilize it uh to examine these accidents and figure out how to keep the public safe is time-consuming. You talked already a little bit about staffing issues.
▶ 1:05:31Tell me, what is your plan to try to hire more of these folks with this specialized um uh background and keep them uh in your organization. This is a very stressful job. Uh it is time-consuming as you mentioned with families, but you're they're seeing a lot of really um you know, uh terrible things. And so, how do you what are you going to do to be able to not only recruit folks to join your organization, but to keep them? Well, we do a lot of outreach.
▶ 1:06:01Uh we work with um different parties. So, part of our investigative process and how we work collaboratively on safety is our party process where and what that is is anyone uh that is uh that can provide technical expertise in an investigation becomes a party to the investigation to help us develop the Part of that working relationship, a lot of people find that they want to come to the NTSB. We're a great workforce.
▶ 1:06:30We're a great place to work. We want to keep them. We also want to prevent burnout as well, which I think is a real concern. Uh my ideal would be able to have a situation where Clint or Shawn, who runs our recorders division, or Sarah, who is part of the family assistance team, can take time off to be with their families and not be in rotation and have a backup, some redundancy there, so others can come in, so that we can keep them at the
▶ 1:07:00NTSB. Is there a request from Congress that will um allow you to be able to do that? Is is it just additional funding or are there other things that we can do to be helpful in that way? What would be helpful 70% of our budget is our workforce. And so what I a lot of agencies need billions of dollars.
▶ 1:07:21What I need for is is between 150 and 156 million dollars. 156 million is what I asked for million not billion M not a B M and that will help us get towards that full staffing level that helps keep our workforce that is highly skilled. They could go anywhere and make millions of dollars.
▶ 1:07:50Don't do But they could and that's what we we lose. I mean frankly during telework we were losing a bunch of employees to other agency that that had more flexible telework programs. Now we're able now people want to come to us. So I think that speaks very highly of our workforce but we do need funding. And one last quick question before my time expires. You mentioned there's currently over a thousand open recommendations that you all have made as a result of your investigations.
▶ 1:08:20Can you tell us how the NTSB coordinates with DOT and other agencies on these recommendations? You said you don't have enforcement authority nor do you want it regulatory oversight but tell us how you make sure that these recommendations are actually being adopted. So we have a safety recommendations team. Actually most of our recommendations don't go to federal agencies.
▶ 1:08:42Most of them are to the entities that may be involved with our investigations or say a local fire department or state responders. There might be state police. So we issue recommendations to many different entities and throughout the investigation our biggest hope is we don't issue a safety recommendation that they improve safety through the investigation, but we do have an entire team focused on implementing our safety recommendations and they meet quarterly with say
▶ 1:09:13the federal agencies to figure out how they're meeting them. One thing people don't realize is just because we issue a safety recommendation doesn't mean you're stuck with that safety recommendation. We are open to an PHMSA, the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration in DOT, is an expert at this. They come back and say we can't do this because we're not going to be able to implement it this way. How about we do it this way?
▶ 1:09:43And then we reconsider the recommendation and say great, that's an alternative that will meet the intent of that recommendation. So we actually encourage, when we talk about cost, we encourage agencies and others to come back to us with some alternative. It doesn't mean we know everything about their operations. They may know something we don't know, so please tell us is there a different way to do it? Mr. Chair, I appreciate the extra time and with that I yield. Mr. Joyce.
▶ 1:10:15I want to switch a little bit on you if you don't mind. it. I got it. Thank you very much. That's someone looking out for me. thank you for being here. But I'm question goes back to Chairman. A little over 2 years ago the Norfolk Southern train derailed in East Palestine, Ohio spilling the toxic chemicals as you know that continue to affect the health of the local communities today.
▶ 1:10:43Your investigation in the vent and burn of all five derailed VCM tanks addressed the communication and decision-making processes that led to the vent and burn and the availability of sound criteria for when a vent and burn is appropriate. Can you give the committee an update on your recommendations for ensuring the proper assessment of when to use vent and burn procedures in the event of an emergency? Uh that recommendation is still being implemented by Norfolk Southern and we continue to follow up.
▶ 1:11:09It's not something that uh they have fully developed yet, but it is something that we are monitoring and encouraging them to implement. Have you seen any of these recommendations implemented by other systems and were their contractors since your report was released last June? No. Thank you. Uh Recognize these Palestinians and surrounding areas have obviously growing concerns that there would be long-term health effects because of the exposure of these chemicals.
▶ 1:11:39Recognizing that your staff has incredibly demanding schedules, therefore time constraints, how long does staff work with families impacted by disasters like East Palestine? So we're we currently are working with 1,187 families with active about 470 I think right now cases, but we from the initial stages of the investigation when we were on scene, we are meeting with the families
▶ 1:12:13when they arrive, it could be within 24 48 hours, but we begin that communication and we carry that through the course of the investigation. Anytime there are updates, they get them they get noticed first. Anytime there are recommendations prior to the final report, we talk with them and meet with them and then sometimes families become advocates for safety and want to work with us to implement our safety recommendations.
▶ 1:12:42And so they'll work with us for years to implement those safety recommendations and we really cherish those relationships. We've certainly seen that in East Palestine. Yes, in East Palestine, in the Conception dive boat in California where the families of the 34 who died are still working for change. So, uh if I'm hearing you correctly, then your agency doesn't stop when the report is issued, it continues to work through as they receive in further information.
▶ 1:13:12Yes, so well past preliminary report through the final report and then once the final report is issued, family members some want to become advocates for safety, some don't and then our safety advocacy team will work with them coordinate for implementation of our I want to switch it again on you.
▶ 1:13:38through uh through about 34 states have changed their laws regarding legal marijuana. It's still illegal everywhere to drive while intoxicated. In a 2022 report, your research has found that current testing practices and protocols need to be improved to better detect a driver's drug use and accurately report the prevalence of drug impaired driving.
▶ 1:13:58The lack of a standardized drug testing and reporting hinders understanding of the issue and development of policies that can reduce impaired driving as well as treatment options for those with substance abuse Uh we need to be doing more research especially in the development of tools that will help identify the presence of drugs in drivers in themselves and others by them operating these vehicles and danger the motoring public.
▶ 1:14:20What does the NTSB recommend other federal agencies and state governments do to address the rise in drug impaired driving accidents, especially as more communities across the US are beginning to legalize recreational marijuana and can be subjected to this? we have long worked on against drug impaired driving. We work with states.
▶ 1:14:44We recently did an in Oklahoma where some teens died and it involved drug impaired driving and actually we had found that there and this is really across the United States. I'm sure you all remember that when we all went to school, we had driver education. And in as part of our school curriculum and it was it was pretty robust.
▶ 1:15:13Today that education doesn't occur. So for teens that died in Oklahoma, we had found that that driver education around drug impaired driving did not occur. Now they put that back in place, but that doesn't occur across our country. What's very interesting is that organizations have done some research and have found that for teen drivers in particular, teen drivers a third of them think it is legal to drive after intaking marijuana.
▶ 1:15:4325% of adults usage has gone up significantly and we need to do a number of things including testing protocols, training for law enforcement officers so they can detect drug impaired driving, increased enforcement and then training itself. for for the public.
▶ 1:16:04I I wholeheartedly agree with you and what's even more disturbing is the crap that they sell at the local gas stations to underage kids without any regulation that creates much worse effects and puts these kids out on the morning highway with no concept of what's going wrong. I have a 17-year-old. I understand and I worry about it all the time and usage has gone up It was not too long ago.
▶ 1:16:27I believe I I saw 5 years ago it was 20 million Americans were using American marijuana. Now it's up to 64 million. The usage has skyrocketed and meanwhile we have drivers who think it's legal. I mean, we've all been at traffic lights in DC where somebody pulls up and there you can smell it. It's awful.
▶ 1:16:51And a terrible terrible tragedies that we've have investigated over and over again marijuana, other drugs, and then alcohol, of course. Thank you very much for your work. Thank Mr. Strong. Thank you, Chairman Womack and Ranking Member Clyburn for holding this important hearing today as well as Homendy for your continued commitment to public service and safety.
▶ 1:17:18Chairman Homendy, Alabama is currently assigned to the NTSB's Eastern Regional Office, whose headquarters and personnel are both based in Washington, D.C. My colleague, Mr. Rutherford, mentioned working with first responders. How does the NTSB ensure that its investigators working in regions like Alabama are fully familiar with the local governance, geography, and other factors that impact investigations?
▶ 1:17:46Well, first I'm pleased to tell you that my daughter's number one is a college in Alabama right now. So, I was just in Alabama visiting a few of them. I might not say which one cuz I'm not sure which side you're on there. for our investigators, we have investigators in the headquarters, but we also have a number of our investigators that are stationed around the United States.
▶ 1:18:11And I will specifically look on Alabama to see who might be in that area. But, where we can our regional investigators that do the regional we do have others across the country. Thank you. In North Alabama, the most recent NTSB investigation required close coordination with several local agencies including the Scottsboro City Fire and Police Department, Hollywood, Alabama Fire Department, and Jackson County Emergency Management.
▶ 1:18:40How frequently does NTSB conduct joint training exercises or professional development initiatives with state and local agencies to ensure both investigators and first responders uh are well prepared to handle emerging incidents and are fully integrated into the investigative process? I would have to get you exact figures and I can do that for the record. However, we do a lot of training with law enforcement and fire personnel and we would like to do a lot more. We think it's critical.
▶ 1:19:10Right now we'll have first responders who call us and report accidents and say, "What should we do here?" Others who have developed relationships with us. So, we do think it's critical. I'll get you figures. Chair Homendy, in your written testimony, you highlighted the importance of enhancing the NTSB's use of data uh to drive greater effectiveness and innovation. Huntsville, Alabama is the largest city uh in the state of Alabama. 40 years as a firefighter, assistant chief, emergency medical technician.
▶ 1:19:39Over the years, we've worked well with NTSB to investigate airplane crashes, helicopter crashes, and even a school bus crash that critically injured 31 teenagers on one of our interstates. When an accident occurs, is there a centralized system or shared database where all relevant agencies, including the NTSB, can access and review the same data?
▶ 1:20:03How does the NTSB ensure that there is no overlap of work and prevent duplicative efforts in data review? So, the NTSB for aviation accidents, we are the holders we all aviation accidents are reported to uh the NTSB and we take that information and we include them in a database. We also have a database for all the other modes of transportation that the public can access and we're always looking to make improvements and get input on where we can make improvements.
▶ 1:20:33Uh it's not duplicative. It's very focused on our investigations, the ones that we conduct. For aviation, it's all of them. For the other modes, it's only the ones that we're conducting. When conflicting data arises between agency, who has the final say on which information is considered the most accurate and I would have to say it depends on which data you're referencing. That's right. As you mentioned, the National Transportation Safety Board relies on highly skilled staff to conduct accident investigations.
▶ 1:21:04As the NTSB invest investigators near retirement age, what strategies does NTSB have to incentivize, recruit, train, and retain the next generation of investigators to carry out the mission effectively? Uh we do have strategic plans. One One thing that we would like to do is human capital planning. In order to do that, it would that and a skills assessment.
▶ 1:21:33It would take about 1.5 to 2 million dollars, which is pretty significant for us, but it's something that we do want to We have looked across the modes and all the offices to figure out where the biggest gaps are and gotten input from all the directors for that. But we can do a better job.
▶ 1:21:52We can do a better job, and we want to do a better job at recruiting, training, and retaining our When I When I say that we need more resources, it comes with we have to make improvements as well. We have to be accountable for making those improvements, and that being able to have the best workforce out there. Thank you. In closing, I want to thank you for your leadership, the NTSB board members, and the entire team for their faithful service to our country.
▶ 1:22:22I remember well a quote made by a former board member Deborah Hershman at a critical scene that I was at at a tragic investigation that we worked together. She told the media, we will investigate what went right that will lead to what went wrong. I thank each of you for the job that you do. And my daughter graduated from Auburn in May and my son's a junior at Auburn, but we would like them Crimson Tide to beat some good lemonade there. I did get some good lemonade there.
▶ 1:22:52Kramer's Corner, love it. Honestly, I expected him to put in a plug for Athens State University. He's a proud bear. Um So, but but and this I can tell you, he's going to be rooting against BYU on Thursday and he's going to be rooting against Michigan on Friday. I can only hope that late Thursday night he'll be rooting for my Razorbacks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member.
▶ 1:23:22Very informative hearing and thank each of you for what you do for our country. Thank you. Thank you, Dale. Welcome, by the way, to the subcommittee. Mr. LaRosa, we're going to do a lightning round. Let's go two or three minutes and any remaining questions. Sure. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and just a couple of points and then a question. I just wanted to make reference to the the the comment by the president, vice president, secretary of defense on DEI is responsible for the crash. And which is let's take a look at who the traffic controllers are.
▶ 1:23:5216% of them are women, 36% of them are veterans. If you want to maintain morale and you want to maintain commitment, the dedication, and the knowledge, etc., then you just don't make offhanded comments that talk about DEI as as being responsible for a crash which killed 67 people. It's just unbelievable that that would be the statement.
▶ 1:24:18Secondly, Um, I want to just get back at the issue of of staffing. Um, I understand that there 554 open recommendations of for DOT and the various modes. And aviation there's 188. And on on the highways piece is about 187. So those are the two biggest pieces. And what I asked earlier on, 790 employees terminated.
▶ 1:24:46340 from FAA, 170 from Federal Highways Administration. If you are working with these agencies, we have to understand and know what those terminations of that staff that you talked about your staff and those who are protected not protected. But we have to know from you because it's saving lives. This is not you know, a matter of you you you know, buying a helicopter and so forth. But this is saving lives.
▶ 1:25:16But if there is an impact on your agency with the loss of personnel in these other places that help you do your job, which you do very well. It's a gold standard. But it was a gold standard with a full complement of people working there. That is information that we really need to have.
▶ 1:25:37And I'm asking you, I'd like to get we can speak offline or we can talk about this, but I think it's critically important for us to know what is happening with the terminations in this area that affect your ability to save people's lives.
▶ 1:25:56Uh, the Now, the other piece of that if you can answer, are we then now transferring um, this effort which you which you do to to states to close out the recommendations? Are we saying we can't the state departments of transportation have to do that so that we're not then saying the federal government isn't going to be there, but we're going to rely on the states. A lot of that is happening in this area.
▶ 1:26:23So, a lot of that pushing stuff to the states is is what's on the agenda. So, with regard to that and what you do on those recommendations, how are they going to get carried out? depends on the recommendation before but for our recommendations right now, we are working with personnel at the Department of Transportation or federal agencies and state agencies. We have not seen an impact on our investigations at this time or our recommendations.
▶ 1:26:53However, if there is one, we will I will commit to notifying the committee if we see any sort of negative effect like taking on? Are you pushing things to the state to deal with with regard to the recommendations? You said it We're not pushing anything to the states, but we might have recommendations to states to improve state laws in a certain area. I had mentioned Oklahoma with the drug-impaired driving.
▶ 1:27:20We encouraged the state of Oklahoma to make improvements to teen driver education and they made that through their efforts through the state department their Oklahoma Department of Transportation. Those are the types of state initiatives, drunk driving. We have a long-standing recommendations for states to go to 0.05 instead of 0.08. That is something for a recommendation that goes to all the Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank the gentle lady.
▶ 1:27:53final question, I'm reminded of the the famous movie The Wizard of Oz when Dorothy talking about lions tigers and bears, oh The threats that she uh perceived that she was facing I can only imagine what your break room is like
▶ 1:28:24when new technology, emerging technology, and I'm talking about things like drones, vertical takeoff and landing, driverless cars and trucks, things that could pose could pose a threat uh to the transportation safety of this country and the world.
▶ 1:28:48can you look into your crystal ball and tell us where the next real threats are going to come from that could cause your agency to have to be spun up and conduct another major investigation? I mean, it could really happen in any mode of transportation. Certainly, there are emerging technologies in each mode of transportation, many of which you mentioned.
▶ 1:29:16Uh and uh but our agency is Uh we uh have uh technology ourselves, but we're constantly evolving uh as new technology comes out. We have needs there as well. Uh we're making sure that our employees are ready from a standpoint of training. Uh we do want to increase our investment in training for our employees.
▶ 1:29:41Uh but uh it's tough to say in my uh crystal ball because I look across all modes of transportation and see uh that there could be significant disasters in any of those modes. What I will say, and I know uh uh there's been a lot of focus on aviation, our uh biggest contributor to fatalities right now in transportation is on our roads.
▶ 1:30:09It 40 over 40,000 people are dying on our nation's roads every year, millions injured. You know, we talk about transportation accidents uh as single accidents, but every day an average of 112 people are dying on our roads. 112 people and we don't blink an eye.
▶ 1:30:32There is so much we have to do to improve road safety uh across the US and we have so many recommendations on that. If we can get that number down, that would be significant. That's 95% of all uh transportation fatalities. Mr.
▶ 1:30:50Clyburn talked about uh you know, silos uh how agencies uh perform in silos and and I think it it's wise uh for an organization like yours uh that's going going to be on the receiving end of the uh of the next tragedy that's going to happen for you guys to be uh invited into some of those silos to help forestall maybe or prevent some of the future tragic accidents from happening. Mr. Clyburn.
▶ 1:31:21Well, let me extend on that silo business for a moment. I'm I'm going to be hopping on this for a long time. Mr. I made the mistake of um spending some time with air traffic controllers. I'm never going up in one of those things again. I met with them 2 days ago. Turned down all invitations.
▶ 1:31:50I really really feel that not enough focus is placed on air traffic controllers. I think they're immensely understaffed. I know where the training takes place. And I'm all right with that. We need to Either they need to build one in South Carolina or they expand that facility in Wherever it is.
▶ 1:32:19I don't know that you're reporting on your status Well, let me just put it this way. I'm haunted by the fact uh that talked about tragedy at uh in Washington here. There was only one controller in the tower when it happened. That's the reporting. I have no idea whether or not that's true.
▶ 1:32:48And I understand that from the reporting that um that was not unusual. But you you talked about two pilots. I don't know. Is it true there's only one at the time? No, there were five at the time in the tower. There were nine on duty. what you might be referring to is the combining of positions. Uh there were uh uh at one point during the day before 3:40 p.m.
▶ 1:33:19Uh where uh actually it could have been seven because they combined the position for clearance delivery and flight data, which is not uncommon, but they did combine positions for the helicopter position and the local traffic position into one. The person didn't leave, so it went down to five controllers at the time of the accident. That uh that combined position was at 3:40 p.m. It stayed that way. Uh the person went on break, came back into rotation at 4:27 p.m.
▶ 1:33:49Uh but in total there were nine people on duty that day. Uh Who There were nine people in the tower? I'm not talking about that. in the cab. At the time of the night Correct. Okay. Well, uh I don't know why that reporting is out there, but it's been out there pretty extensively, and I've been haunted by that. in talking with them, air traffic controllers, they tell me that they are tremendously understaffed.
▶ 1:34:19Tremendously understaffed. I don't understand how this country will tolerate air traffic controllers being tremendously understaffed. There's a problem with that that I would uh that in your reporting of your your studies that you will take a look outside of your silo and see what is happening with air traffic controllers and make some recommendations as to what we ought to be doing.
▶ 1:34:48So That to me is very serious problem. We have a number of uh uh that focus on air traffic control at the NTSB. Uh as part of this investigation, we have an entire investigative group focused on air traffic control. Uh they're going to be looking at everything from staffing to changes in staffing over time at DCA uh to whether there should be more staffing.
▶ 1:35:17They'll look at operations at DCA uh in total and over Uh so they are uh former air traffic controllers uh that are working on this, and it will be part of our investigation. Ms. Byce, do you have a comment?
▶ 1:35:36Yeah, I just want to say, first of all, thank you to Secretary Duffy for uh coming to the FAA facility, uh Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center in Oklahoma, looking at the facility, recognizing that um part of the challenge is technology, that that need to be investing in technology, and he has made a commitment to FAA that that is going to happen. And secondly, uh you know, one of the challenges we have is recruiting and retaining these FAA uh air traffic controllers because it's a very long process.
▶ 1:36:05Uh it can take 5 months to 2 years just to clear medical training. Uh then you have the training itself, then you are assigned to an airport, and you have to work your way up. We have not done the best job, in my opinion, of uh filling that pipeline adequately, and I do think that Secretary Buttigieg is very um on target with his uh plan to try to address this issue quickly, and I welcome the expansion of the FAA center in Oklahoma City. With that, I yield. And with that shameless plug, we're going to go back to the sheriff.
▶ 1:36:35Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just just briefly, I will say, because this has been brought up, the president's remarks about DEI hiring having uh created some of the shortfall of the air traffic controllers. There's a class action lawsuit about this issue. Um and in fact, under the Obama administration, they changed their assessments from a skill-based assessment to a biographical assessment.
▶ 1:37:03They have now gone back uh as as a result of actions by this Congress, well, not this Congress, but the one before. and so, that 3,800 shortage that the FAA is looking at in ATS uh controllers is uh it is a result of qualified people being denied employment for DEI reasons, and that's why I think the president made that reference. I yield back.
▶ 1:37:36Mr. Joyce. Get our mic going. we're going to switch uh topics on you yet again. Um according to your recommendation related to the Baltimore Bridge collapse, Ohio has five bridges that require an assessment of their vulnerability to vessel strike related What were the most common issues or inconsistencies with the current vulnerability assessment requirements that led the NTSB to identify the 68 bridges in need of evaluation?
▶ 1:38:08So, we looked we worked with the Federal Highway Administration to to determine our list of bridges. We started with a a much bigger list and focused on ocean-going vessels in navigable waterways and then began limiting that list and came down to 68 that had not done vulnerability assessments of their bridges prior to recommendations by AASHTO in 1991
▶ 1:38:38and 2009, which those recommendations were to look at your existing bridges and to do a vulnerability assessment. The vulnerability assessment was created in 1991 and updated in 2009 and at the time they said for existing bridges that they should go back and do those vulnerability assessments.
▶ 1:38:57So, we're recommending out of these 68 bridges that they go back and do that assessment and there there's pretty substantial data that they're going to have to put into that assessment. Some of the states may have done it and we don't know or I'm sorry, the bridge owners may have done it and we don't know yet, but we know that they we felt so strongly about this that we issued an urgent safety recommendation
▶ 1:39:27so that they would determine risk and report that back to the NTSB and then take proactive measures to ensure safety. Do you foresee the NTSB then issuing further guidance on how bridge owners can reduce their risk, or should bridge owners wait for guidance and risk education system from the Federal Highway Administration, the Coast Guard, or the Army Corps? So, there is a guidance already out there by AASHTO, the state highway transportation officials.
▶ 1:39:55That's that's there, including how to do the method two Uh the assistance would be helping them in getting the data, which is where the Federal Highway Administration, the Coast Guard, and the Army Corps of Engineer can be most Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ms. Mace. Mr. Strong. Mr. Strong, bring us home. Thank you. And And I'm going to bring it home quick.
▶ 1:40:24Number one, I wouldn't jeopardize an investigation under any circumstance, but the facts are 67 people lost their life at Reagan National. Greater than 850 takeoffs and landings happen every day at Reagan National Airport. My understanding, an air traffic controller is or was designated to solely do air traffic control for helicopters until 9:30 p.m. nightly.
▶ 1:40:49Was this air traffic control helicopter air traffic control in their position the night of the crash, or had they left their post? The final report will answer most of these questions, and we await the completion of your investigation, and I think that will answer all the questions that members of Congress and the families that lost loved ones have. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Yeah, thank you.
▶ 1:41:13In a In a In a good way to bring this hearing to a close, uh and the report that will come out, we can all have great confidence that it's going to be a highly professional, very uh detailed conclusive report. And to that, Ms. Homendy, we are eternally grateful for what you and your team do. I want to ask you one final question.
▶ 1:41:40What did we not ask you that we should have? Would you like to be an NTSB investigator cuz that is always the last question that we ask in all of our would you like to hear what we need again for FY26?
▶ 1:42:01you're you're talking to the people who will ultimately I mean, we'll get a budget we'll be presented a budget and we know what happens to most of those presidential budgets, but eventually the appropriations committee if if in fact we can get back to regular order will have to make some some of the tough calls. So, I think it's certainly within was 156 million. 156 million. We need we do need to get uh um to full staffing.
▶ 1:42:31We need to provide uh the ability for our workforce I'd like to increase training funds for our workforce, increase outreach uh to law enforcement and to firefighters, but that takes resources. We are very good stewards of our resources. I've gone through every single contract uh that we have to determine uh is there anything here that we need to change?
▶ 1:42:58Um but, you know, our and I will say I did I did look at the cost for government requirements is going up. Uh the cost alone for government mandates is 6.4 million dollars to the uh from it 2024. We looked across the agency 6.4 million dollars is pretty significant for a budget of 145.
▶ 1:43:28Um so, but here here's what I will say. We also when we ask for increased funding, we know that we also have to improve We always strive to do better. When I came in as chair, I met with all stakeholders and all modes of transportation not to figure out what we were doing right, to figure out what we were doing wrong and how we could be better.
▶ 1:43:55And we've looked at our risks proactively and we know what we need to address. We are not perfect, but we strive to do better every day for our workforce, for the taxpayer. I think it's critical.
▶ 1:44:11There are a lot of agencies right now that are maybe maybe need to look at right-sizing agencies, but for the NTSB, we do run lean and we are good stewards of our resources, but that comes with a requirement that we need to be held accountable as well for delivering our accident reports, our recommendations.
▶ 1:44:37When I came in as chair, as you started, we had over 400, close to 480 accident investigations that were over two, three, four years old. We are now down to Well, we're down to It fluctuates. Some days it will be five over, but it's usually for something that is not in our control. But we are down to zero.
▶ 1:45:02We eliminated that backlog because we invested in our workforce and we said we had to be held accountable for delivering on safety and we we take that very seriously our role. I will say in closing that this committee has been very supportive of the NTSB. Your staff has been and to work with.
▶ 1:45:26Each of you as as members has been really supportive of our agency and we really appreciate all your work. We know you have a difficult job to do. You have to balance a number of priorities. We just ask that you consider us among those priorities because an investment in us will save Well, it's easy to invest in an organization that's highly capable, highly competent, and well-led. Mr. Clyburn, final remarks.
▶ 1:45:55thank you very very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me just say this. I am I'm not much of a movie goer. uh every Christmas I do show it's I show a sort of a historical movie to a group that I spend the holidays with and one of those this past Christmas uh six triple eight.
▶ 1:46:18I would recommend uh that my colleague take a look at that and see what DEI is all about. I didn't see the Red Tails, uh which is the movie made about the Tuskegee Airmen. Uh I think we have to uh DEI is something we ought to be very very careful about.
▶ 1:46:40Those Tuskegee Airmen uh gave service to this country and most people you talk to coming out of World War II said that uh a lot of those fighter pilots would not fly unless those Tuskegee Airmen were flying with them. John Glenn would not go up on his flight in the in the space unless those four African American women signed off on it.
▶ 1:47:08So, DEI is something we ought to be very careful about. And on that note, um we thank you again for your time today, for your staff, for the work that you do on behalf of a grateful country. Thank you so so This hearing is adjourned.