▶ 0:11:58e e
▶ 0:12:48do you notice who's getting all this hearing of the subcommittee on delivering on government efficiency will come to order welcome everyone without objection
▶ 0:13:18the chair May declare a recess at any time I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement good morning at the Doge subcommittee We are continuing our war on waste that means rooting out spending that is unnecessary wasteful and frankly unamerican today we are looking at the more than half a billion dollars Federal taxpayers spend annually to fund public radio and television
▶ 0:13:49a big chunk of this subsidy flows to National Public Radio and Public Broadcasting Service NPR and PBS are the big DC based entities that create and distribute much of the news and educational content heard and seen on public radio and TV stations across the country when Congress adopted the public broadcasting Act of 1967 it did so because it thought at the
▶ 0:14:19time that federal dollars were needed to provide objective news and education content to the entire nation including rural residents who lived off the grid fast forward a few decades and a lot has changed the invention of the internet for instance and social media it's made news and information widely available to those living in remote areas Americans are increasingly consuming digital media and podcast the
▶ 0:14:49audience of public radio and television is declining and I know this because I represent a rural District where Farmers listen to podcast in internet-based news while they drive their tractors at the same time NPR and PBS have increasingly become radical left-wing Echo Chambers for a narrow audience of mostly wealthy white Urban liberals and progressives who generally
▶ 0:15:20look down on and judge Rural America PBS news is not just left leaning but it is is actively used as taxpayer funds to push some of the most radical left positions like featuring a drag queen on the show let's learn a show targeted toward young children ages 3 to 8 years old I want you to know I grew up watching children's
▶ 0:15:50programming on PBS and as a mother who raised three children I felt confident that I could leave the room while my own children were watching children's programming on PBS but I can tell you right now miss specifically as a mother if I had walked in my living room or one of my children's bedrooms and seeing this child predator and this monster
▶ 0:16:20targeting my children I would become unglued and that is how most parents feel all over this this country this is not the only example of them sexualizing and grooming children they've been doing it for over the last decade in 2015 PBS produced Frontline put out a documentary growing up trans that takes viewers on an intimate and eye-opening
▶ 0:16:51journey inside the struggles and choices facing transgender kids and their families this means that PBS is one of the founders of the trans child child abuse industry all while taking taxpayer money brainwashing and transing children is an issue so hated by parents across the country that it was a driving force in the landslide Republican and Trump victory in the 2024
▶ 0:17:21election cycle and presidential race the news that these entities produced is either resented or in increasingly tuned out and turned off by most of the hardworking Americans who are forced to pay for it they no longer view NPR and PBS as trusted news sources as a matter of fact with these people they're a threat in fact when Elon Musk put his hand over
▶ 0:17:51his heart and extended it and told the American people his heart goes out to them PBS PBS news posted the clip called it a fascist nazi salute and described how it was similar to the same Hile used by Nazis and their Victory rallies not once did PBS or NPR report on the numerous
▶ 0:18:21accounts of Democrats making the same gesture AOC Camala Harris Barack Obama Warren somebody that lost a presidential race Hillary Clinton Tim Governor Tim Waltz why wasn't this treated exactly the same way is there not a standard in journalism today apparently not here's
▶ 0:18:51how we lost America's trust was in fact the title of a powerful essay written last year by Yuri Berlin a veteran NPR editor in his essay Berliner described how NPR's downward spiral accelerated greatly during the first Administration he said NPR dedicated efforts to damage the Trump presidency via Relentless pursuit of rushia gate rumors that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia over the election NPR hosts
▶ 0:19:21interviewed Adam Schiff then the top Democrat of the house intelligence committee 25 times about Trump in Russia but they made no apologies when the Mueller report found no evidence that the Trump campaign had colluded with Russia because they did not Berliner also described NPR's passionate embrace of the left-wing Dei ideology that Americans clearly reject as evidence by the November elections NPR's language and style
▶ 0:19:51guides were shaped by race and gender-based Affinity groups that dominated the internal culture of the organization and NPR journalists were to ask everyone they interviewed their race gender and ethnicity and enter it into a centralized tracking system this tracking system embeds Dei into the fibers of its content sounds like racism to me it's a software attached to NPR's
▶ 0:20:22content management system where these reporters and producers submit information about their sources race and ethnicity gender identity geographic location that's kind of scary and age range the tool allows NPR to track the demographics of their sources in real time to allow for Source diversity the irony of these supposed diverse sources is that NPR has no interest real interest in diversity like having diverse viewpoints
▶ 0:20:53Berliner tried to sound the alarm on this when he checked voter registration Records On on of the editors at DC's NPR headquarters and found 87 registered Democrats and zero registered Republicans but NPR treated Berliner like a political dissident in the old Soviet Union he was driven out of the organization and forced to resign sounds like communism and the ring leader of
▶ 0:21:23that effort was NPR's then newly appointed CEO Katherine Maher who is before us today she dismissed Mr Berlin's wakeup call as profoundly disrespectful hurtful and demeaning in other words instead of viewing it as a chance to finally write the ship at NPR she doubled down in doing so she made it clear how any further internal dissent would be dealt with on her watch that does sound
▶ 0:21:53like communist China at the taxpayers expense and no one should be surprised NPR installed her in the top job after Miss Mah was firmly on record with a litany Litany of public comments and social media posts displaying her ultr Progressive views her scorn for free speech and her fondness for censorship so now it's up to Congress to determine if Americans are going to continue to provide her and the organization that put
▶ 0:22:23her in charge willingly after they knew these things with tax payer funds to continue to pursue their Progressive or rather communist agenda for far too long Federal taxpayers have been forced to fund biased news this needs to come to an end and it needs to come to an end now so I am glad Miss Maher and Miss ker accepted our invitation to show up today and be held accountable to the taxpayers
▶ 0:22:54I look forward to them answering our questions in full public View and explaining to the American people why they think they deserve Americans hard-earned taxpayer money I request unanimous consent that representative Jim Jordan from Ohio representative Rana from California representative Emily Randle from Washington be waved on to today's hearing for the purpose of asking questions without objection so ordered
▶ 0:23:24and with that I yield to ranking member Lynch for his opening statement thank you madam chair I want to thank the witnesses for your willingness to come forward and uh offer your advice and uh and testimony to this committee Madam chair for over two decades of service on this oversight committee I've worked with members on both sides of the aisle to investigate issues of critical importance to the Safety and Security of the American people including the the conduct
▶ 0:23:55of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan terrorist attack acts against the US compound classified Annex in Benghazi and several major intelligence and security breaches under Democratic and Republican administrations so I'm sad to see that this once proud committee the principal investigative Committee in the House of Representatives has now stooped to the lowest levels of partisanship and political theater to hold a hearing to go after the likes of Elmo and Cookie
▶ 0:24:25Monster and Arthur the arvar all for the unforgivable sin of teaching the alphabet to lowincome families children and providing accessible local news and programming this hearing also comes at the direction of President Trump and Elon Musk who have repeatedly called for the defunding of all public media and claimed that media organizations such as PBS and NPR are and I quote a liberal disinformation machine close quote meanwhile the Trump Administration Administration is engaged
▶ 0:24:55in an actual disinformation campaign to minimize the catastrophic national security breach that was revealed earlier this week as reported by Atlantic editor-in Chief Jeffrey Goldberg Mr Goldberg was inadvertently added to a group chat on an unauthorized non-secure publicly available message app in which Secretary of Defense Pete Heth disclosed quote operational details of forthcoming strikes on Yemen including information
▶ 0:25:26about targets weapon systems and other actions the US would be taking and also sequencing I want to remind my colleagues in Congress that federal law makes it a crime when a person through gross negligence removes information relating to National Defense from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of this trust are to be lost stolen or abstracted or destroyed and what's more
▶ 0:25:56if evidence shows that any of the party who were in on that signal chat chat lied under the O under oath in the Senate yesterday Mr rackliff or or Mr rackliff or Miss gabard for instance then certainly conspiracy to conceal that breach would be far more worse far worse where Center or criminal attempt is in evidence and would be more likely to invite culpability and possible liability
▶ 0:26:27the Secretary of offense would be subject to criminal prosecution and it would be the responsibility of the U us attorney general to prosecute that but where a conflict ex ex exists it might require a special prosecutor this security breach severely compromised the safety of American troops in advance of imminent us operations and air strikes against hudi positions It is Well documented that the houi Arsenal includes anti-aircraft capability ballistic missiles
▶ 0:26:57cruise missiles rockets and unmad aerial attack drones Mr Goldberg who was unwilling unwittingly elevated to the clearance level afforded to members of The Joint Chiefs of Staff was also joined in the exposed group chat by vice president J D Vance Secretary of State Marco Rubio and National Security adviser Mike wals and other senior members of the president of President Trump's National Security team this committee should be questioning every single one of them as to why they were using an unapproved unsecure
▶ 0:27:28messaging app to conduct sensitive classified discussions about military operations in which our sons and daughters in uniform are being sent into battle one of the participants was actually sitting in Russia sitting in Russia using an unsecure app and every member of this committee knows what that means we've all been advised about which apps are are secure and insecure and when it is appropriate to engage in in non-critical
▶ 0:27:59discussions as former chairman of our subcommittee on National Security I recall a time when just the potential for a security breach that could expose American troops and intelligence Personnel to unnecessary danger would immediately trigger hearings and bring this committee to a lather on both sides but you can bet we won't be touching this issue because today the controlling House Majority is afraid to do its job it is a afraid to hold
▶ 0:28:29Trump and Trump's Administration accountable they would rather post up against Big Bird than deal with that that issue in reference to public media Elon Musk recently asked should your tax dollars really be paying for an organization run by people who think the truth is a distraction well I would say about the same about a the current Administration and it's proliferation of disinformation from claims that Ukraine Ukraine caused its own started its own
▶ 0:29:00Invasion to hex secretary hexit assertion that no one was texting War plans you can read the text today because yesterday in the hearing they said it wasn't classified information so you can actually go on the New York Times website and read the text that was discussed in advance of our military operations in Yemen Madame chair if shame was still a thing this hearing would be shameful and I yield back
▶ 0:29:30the balance of my time I am pleased to introduce our Witnesses today Paula ker is the president and chief executive officer of the Public Broadcasting Service also known as PBS Katherine Mah is the president and chief executive officer of national public radio also known as in n PR Mike Gonzalez
▶ 0:30:00is the Angeles T erid denado ebus UNAM senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation Ed Olman is the president and CEO of Alaska public media again I want to thank you all for being here to testify today pursuant to committee rule 9g the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the
▶ 0:30:30testimony that you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God let the record show that the witnesses answered in the affirmative thank you you may take a seat we appreciate you being here today and look forward to your testimony let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written statement and it will appear in full in the hearing record please limit your oral statement to 5
▶ 0:31:01minutes as a reminder please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it is on and the members can hear you when you begin to speak the light in front of you will turn green after four minutes the light will turn yellow when the red light comes on your five minutes have expired and we would ask that you please do your best to wrap up I now recognize Katherine Mah for her open opening statement chairwoman
▶ 0:31:31green ranking member Lynch and distinguished members of the subcommittee my name is Katherine Maher and I'm the president and CEO of national public radio and I welcome the opportunity to discuss the essential role of public media in delivering unbiased nonpartisan fact-based reporting to Americans Americans listen to public radio as they commute as they work and in the kitchen as they cook with family nearly 100% of American Americans live within range of a public radio station we cover what matters
▶ 0:32:01to local communities crop prices cookoffs and local sports teams alongside news of the nation and the world from the halls of Congress to coverage of our troops overseas today Americans have more media choices than ever the rise of podcasting has established a competitive free market for audio news and information and every day I am honored to know that we have 43 million listeners from every state in the nation a midst this competition local stations choose to become members of NPR
▶ 0:32:32for the value we provide for example we are the only non-p payal news outlet with a dedicated reporter covering veterans issues while NPR is only 25% of station programming on average audiences for NPR bring the scale and revenue that subsidize essential local programming local public media journalism has never been more important to American families who consider it part of the fabric of their communities it correlates with higher rates of Civic engagement greater Civic cohesion and economic advantages
▶ 0:33:02such as better Municipal Bond ratings recent independent polling found that more than 60% of all Americans and more than half of Republicans trust public broadcasting to deliver fact-based news I understand the subcommittee has questions about funding for NPR and public radio the vast majority of federal dollars more than 100 million of the 121 million annual appropriation for public radio goes directly to 386 local non-commercial stations Across the Nation this
▶ 0:33:32highly efficient investment enables your local stations to raise an average of $7 for every Federal dollar as a grantee of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting NPR received Federal funding of 11.2 Million last year These funds allow us to maintain the national public radio satellite system helping Safeguard our national security civil defense and Disaster Response and enabling public radio to reach every corner of America additionally These funds help protect journalists covering our troops overseas
▶ 0:34:03and reverse the decline of local journalism as a recipient of federal funds it is our responsibility to answer legitimate questions about why public funds should go to NPR whether we are truly committed to serving all Americans and whether the institution is an effective Steward of taxpayer dollars I he respect and understand your concerns regarding bias and whether public media is relevant in a commercial landscape and I'd like to spend a minute sharing with you my actions to address your concerns first it is critical for
▶ 0:34:33NPR's Newsroom to operate with the highest journalistic standards that means that they do their jobs independently and as CEO I have no editorial role at NPR in other words I do not decide what we cover or how we cover it I lead NPR strategy ensuring we have resources and policies in place to serve all Americans not just those with a specific point of view I was brought into NPR to revive and reorient the organization and bring public media to a wider audience a new generation and new platforms we have a
▶ 0:35:03responsibility to serve Americans across the full political Spectrum in a trustworthy nonpartisan fashion it is essential that we deliver on this commitment and we have work to do and we are doing it in may we launched an initiative to improve our editorial review processes to make sure all pieces are fair and comprehensive we hired new editors and analysts to ensure we're giving Fair airtime to different voices and issues we started Reg meetings with our nearly 200 local newsrooms so we can plan together for the needs of their audiences
▶ 0:35:34and the early results are positive our digital platforms where we have the best data about our listeners the political beliefs of our visitors mirr the makeup of the country across the ideological spectrum and we're seeing growth in readers and listeners I joined NPR because I believe that our strong and dynamic Nation deserves great public media for all Americans are smart and curious and they want us to cover issues that matter from the price of eggs to National Security it's our job to deliver
▶ 0:36:04truthful facts and information so citizens can make up their own minds I believe Americans voted for a transformative Administration and it is our responsibility to cover that transformation fairly with integrity and tenacity I have been CEO for one year and one day I have made changes to leadership and planning invested in editorial Integrity committed to expanding our audiences and our relevance for all Americans while we have taken significant steps in the right direction the journey can't be completed overnight given the support that
▶ 0:36:3475% of Americans have for public media I ask Congress to give us the opportunity to continue to serve the American public I will invite you to listen with a fresh ear and to that end our Newsroom invites you to join us on air and I welcome your questions thank you Miss Mo I now recognize Paula ker for her opening statement chair Taylor green Congressman l and members of the subcommittee my name is Paula ker and I'm the president and CEO of PBS a role that I've
▶ 0:37:04held for 19 years it is my honor to be here on behalf of the 336 PBS stations who Ser who serve every community in the United States there's nothing more American than PBS as a membership organization our local service is at the heart of our work our job at PBS is to support our stations so that local stations can serve their we've been proudly fulfilling our mission for nearly 60 years using the public Airwaves and other Technologies to help educate
▶ 0:37:35engage and Inspire the American people that mission is our guide star and remains just as important today as when the public broadcasting Act was signed into law in 1967 PBS stations provide something that cannot be found on Commercial networks this is because PBS stations are focused on the needs and interests of the viewers they serve especially in rural areas PBS stations are the only Outlet providing coverage of local events for example High School sports local history and
▶ 0:38:05culture content candidate debates at every level of the election ballot and specialized agricultural news local stations also partner with other community organizations to address issues of concern like Veterans Affairs and the opioid crisis finally communities depend on the essential Public Safety information and emergency alerts our local stations provide our programming comes from our local stations for example Southern storytellers was produced by Arkansas PBS for our national audience
▶ 0:38:35this program highlighted Southern Culture through its literature music and film across the country nearly four million people watch Southern T storytellers helping Americans learn about our shared history and what brings us together as a people and a nation our station's pool resources to invest in programming that will benefit all Americans ranging from history and science to Art and music for example firing line with Margaret Hoover creates a forum for people with a wide range of views to respectfully share ideas
▶ 0:39:06while programs like independent lenses matter of mind my Alzheimer's explores the challenges facing many American families and we celebrate what makes our country great a capital fourth in the National Memorial Day concert honor our nation's ideals our service members and our veterans looking ahead we will Mark our nation's 250th birthday with the Mark initiative headlined by a new major series from Ken Burns the American Revolution our educational programming for children is one of the most important aspects of our
▶ 0:39:36service to the American people I strongly believe that the programming we offer to prepare children for the future is the most essential work that we do today more than half of all preschool age children are not enrolled in Pre kindergarten programs our content has helped tens of millions of children prepare for success in school and in life with free programming that is available everywhere children are on air online and in the classroom our educational programming is backed by scores of research studies showing that our
▶ 0:40:06programs like Daniel Tiger's neighborhood and supery help kids develop essential skills like reading math and problem solving we are proud that nearly nine out of 10 families agreed that PBS is the most trusted safe and educational media brand for children because our programming is free and University available we are able to reach more low low income families than any other Media company in fact our viewers overall reflect the wide variety of communities we serve our audience mirrors the overall
▶ 0:40:37US population with respect to education income and geography each month over 160 million television and online viewers explore the world through our trusted content and more than three qus of Americans feel that PBS stations provide excellent value to their communities for over two decades the American public has consistently ranked public television as one of the best investments the government makes more than 70% of the cpb funds from Congress go directly to our stations
▶ 0:41:07and for every dollar of that vital seed money local stations raise seven to support their work this is one of the best most successful examples of a public private partnership when I think about the need for our service I think of a man I met during a visit to a local station in Nebraska he was a Rancher with young children he drove hours to attend a local station event he pulled me aside and told me this we need PBS we don't live near a preschool my children have learned to read watching PBS
▶ 0:41:37shows and the shows we watch on PBS are our connection to the rest of America that is why PBS in the 336 local stations in your communities do what we do PBS programming and the services that local stations provide bring Americans together it is valued needed and trusted by the the American people I appreciate the opportunity to be here today and I look forward to your questions thank you Miss ker I now recognize Mike Gonzalez for his opening
▶ 0:42:07statement thank you chairwoman T chairwoman Taylor green thank you member Lyn for allowing me to appear before you today my name is Mike Gonzalez I'm a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation the views expressed are my own and should now be construed as representing any official position of the Heritage Foundation before joining Heritage 16 years ago I was a journalist for many years I worked in Latin America Asia and Europe traveled with the mujahadin in Afghanistan was arrested in Panama witnessed China's
▶ 0:42:37takeover of Hong Kong and covered the stock market for the Wall Street Journal I have even covered High School sports I know that journalists can keep their prejudices in check that is if they want to this ability to give all sides a hearing becomes an even more serious obligation when taxpayers are coerced to pay for you yet NPR PBS and the other state Broad casters refused to abide by the simple code of decency for decades they've asked for more money while telling telling conservatives to get lost but the nation today is in a very different place
▶ 0:43:08with 36 trillion dollars in debt and more importantly we're seeing not just a shift in our cultural Vibe but a shift in societal paradigms through the egregious bias MPR and PBS had violated the public trust public media needs to be defunded and the cpb needs to be dissolved it's a matter of simple fairness multiple arguments can be made I will list just a few we're deepening that number two the arrangement is unfair to private sector media competitors number three public broadcasting was created with the promise
▶ 0:43:38that it would be educational but now that thousands of competitors have come online public media has become as George Will says like the human appendix theal and purposeless the funding is a regressive tax and obnoxious wealth transfer from Working Families to the affand but the ultimate factor is the broadcasters unfor iable political bias what we have today is a circular undemocratic relationship Democrats unanimously vote for more and more money for public media and in exchange public media heavily tips
▶ 0:44:08the scale in their favor it is a nice arrangement for them but it must end nprs and PBS's full-hearted Embrace of progressive views and constant denigration of conservative ones is quantifiable I refer thank you I referred you to my written testimony besides my own examples I cite the research of Tim Graham as well as NPR veteran Yuri Berliner who says quote an open-minded Spirit no longer exists within NPR rather than pause and reflect NPR instead chose to circle the wagons
▶ 0:44:39and assassinate Berlin's character this is part of a pattern in 2010 NPR fired ju Williams and vilified him as a psycho after he dared to flout the Network's Progressive Orthodoxy the people running MPR remain in Mr Williams words an insulated CER of people who think they're right and who have a hard time with people who are different they went completely off the rails When Donald Trump was elected in 2016 coverage quote veered toward its efforts to topple the Trump presidency ber liner said NPR
▶ 0:45:09hitched his wagon to the false claim that Russia had colluded with the Trump campaign it also refused to cover the hunter Biden lab story after the 2020 riots NPR firmly cited with those who affirmed without a shred of evidence that America is an oppressive Society gripped by systemic racism NPR and PB s even Justified looting rather than just than use journalism as a truth seeking tool NPR and PBS distorted journalism to further a political agenda Yami elendor the liberal activist that that PBS hired
▶ 0:45:39to cover the White House routinely used the platform to make a substantiated allegations against President Trump President Biden she presented as quote a moral andent meant unquote now consider Katherine Mar's appointment as NPR CEO her long record of comments leave zero doubt that she's not only a committed Progressive but someone who's disdained for free expression disqualifies her from being anywhere close to the levers of power at a media institution and what does she think of President Trump he's quote a deranged
▶ 0:46:10racist sociopath Miss Mah is an America she's entitled to her views the question is whether NPR is entitled to appoint her as CEO and then ask conservatives to just Pony up public media's main argument now is that it is essential for weather emergencies in hard to- reach places and that without public money money local news will cease to exist but over 98% of Americans today have a mobile phone even Alaska one of our most isolated States has high levels of Internet penetration as for the claim that the taxpayer is the
▶ 0:46:40last available business model for local news NPR and PBS are asking us to believe something laughable that the government can set can fund immediate structure that actually keeps the government in check I urge you not to try to mend public broadcasting ended thank you very much for your attention and I look forward to your questions thank you Mr Gonzalez I now recognize Ed Olman for his opening
▶ 0:47:10statement Madame chair ranking member and distinguished members of the subcommittee it is an honor to be here today my name is Zed Olman I'm the president and CEO of Alaska public media the people of Alaska rely on public media to provide free universal access to essential services in public safety education and Community connections this includes potentially life-saving alerts updates on Community Affairs coverage of state and local government proven educational content engagement
▶ 0:47:40services and local and national news in many parts of Alaska and communities throughout the country public media is often the only locally operated locally controlled Broadcasting Service we are more than nice to have we are essential especially in remote and Rural places where commercial broadcasting cannot succeed we provide potenti potentially life-saving warnings and alerts that are crucial for alaskans who face threats ranging from extreme weather to earthquakes
▶ 0:48:11landslides and even volcanos Nationwide our public television interconnection system supports the PBS warning alert response Network a critical pathway for the distribution of Wireless Energy emergency alerts to cell public television pioneered datacasting technology to enable Public Safety officials to communicate with each other without the need for Broadband or sell service in partnership with the Department of Homeland Security public television
▶ 0:48:41has proven how this technology can assist rural search and rescue overwater Communications large event Cloud crowd control and even school safety incidents alaskans use our services to connect to their communities and the broader world through access to local public and government Affairs agricultural news local history and culture as well as local and National educational content and news our programming caters to and is informed by the specific needs of the
▶ 0:49:11communities we serve just to give a few examples India Alaska an award-winning series of documentaries captures Alaska's people places and their unique stories Alaska Insight is a weekly public affairs program that moves the conversation beyond the headlines and right into Alaska's communities our radio station host Alaska's only Statewide call-in programs talk of Alaska and line one your health connection we reach across Alaska with these essential free services
▶ 0:49:42through a Statewide Network consisting of four TV channels and one radio station we coordinate the only Statewide News Network which includes 27 independent radio stations across Alaska and we operate the Alaska rural communication system which provides free over-the-air television and radio programming to 100 rural communities Alaska public media is one of more than 360 locally controlled and operated public television stations and over 1,000
▶ 0:50:12public radio stations throughout the country that provide critical services to address the broad range of interest and views of our local communities these stations collectively reach nearly 99% of the American public regardless of zip code income level this Nationwide service would not be possible without Federal support today over 70% of the federal funds for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting go directly to stations just like ours our system leverages this crucial seed money
▶ 0:50:43seven times over and highly efficient public private Partnerships reducing or eliminating Federal funding would be devastating and could cause the closure of many stations especially the most Rural and remote our highest costs come from maintaining broadcast and it infrastructure local programming and Community engagement all of which would be in serious Jeopardy without Federal funding cuts to our national Partners PBS and NPR
▶ 0:51:13would have a similar impact particularly in small and Rural markets the broad range of news and educational programming that we receive from these organizations is popular with alaskans without this National content we would receive less local support endangering the local Services we provide this local this National local model efficiently leverages economies of scale and allows us to provide the unique mix of local programming and National content that alaskans
▶ 0:51:43want congress's support for the mission of public broadcasting to provide every American access to free non-commercial quality educational programming remains critical it allows us to connect alaskans with with each other and with our neighbors in the lower 48 and to connect the nation with us I urge Congress to maintain Federal funding for Public Broadcasting to ensure that local stations around the country can continue to provide essential services to their local areas I welcome your
▶ 0:52:15questions thank you Mr Olman I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions Miss Mah your public statements and social media posts reflect left-wing ideology and blatant opposition to free speech after all you were the head of Wikipedia for many years which is a platform that doesn't tell the truth let's walk through some of the public some of your statements so the public can understand your personal views your
▶ 0:52:45fellow America you said your Americans your fellow Americans just elected Donald Trump as president again this past November you called him a deranged racist and sociopath you posted on X that America is addicted to white supremacy it's appalling you've publicly chastised using the phrase boy and girl which you said erases the language
▶ 0:53:15for non-binary people there's only two genders by the way missm the federal funding that your outlet receives comes from All American taxpayers or dollars not just from your viewers who support such statements as these let me inform you and that so that your that your federal funding is also paid for by the other half of the country the 77 million Americans who voted
▶ 0:53:45for President Trump someone you called a deranged racist sociopath Miss Maher many find your pro censorship and anti-free speech views more concerning than your politics the only speech you see that you the only speech you like seems to be speech that you agree with in 2021 you called the First Amendment the number one challenge in American journalism because it makes it
▶ 0:54:16hard to crack down on bad information you said in a TED Talk that our reverence for the truth might be a distraction you you've also expressed support for deplatforming individuals you view as fascist who do you think should be charged with cracking down on so-called bad information is it n PR is it the government is it you miss Mah
▶ 0:54:46Congressman woman um Madam chair thank you so much for the opportunity to address this I know do you is it is it is it up to you an NPR to crack down on bad information or decide the truth answer the question yes or no miss m absolutely not I'm a very strong believer in free speech and I believe that more speech your your public statements say otherwise Miss Mar in 2021 when speaking at an Atlantic Council event you said that when you were CEO of Wikipedia you took a very active approach to disinformation and misinformation during the covid
▶ 0:55:17pandemic and the 2020 election you said you censored information through conversations with government which governments were those Miss mAh the Biden Administration yes or no Madam chair Wikipedia never censored any information these are your public statements Miss Mah Miss Mah are you familiar with section 399b of the communications act it prohibits non-commercial education broadcast stations ncees from airing commercials on behalf for of for-profit entities
▶ 0:55:47the FCC recently opened an investigation into the underwriting announcements and related policies of NPR and PBS does NP are air commercials for four profit entities Miss Mah uh yes or no Madam chair we are in full compliance and with the fcc's inquiry and will'll continue to cooperate I remind you you're under oath and um violations of Comm of the communications act comes with a fine up to $10,000 and possibly up to a year in prison does PBS air
▶ 0:56:18for for-profit commercials Miss ker we are underwriting announcements and we believe we are in full compliance with the FC and we look forward to delivering the material required in this part of this investigation we look forward to that too I'm assuming you're concern both of you are concerned about this and that's why you brought so many attorneys with you today Miss krer using taxpayers subsidies PBS funded Independent Lens to make documentaries for part of your programming in 2016 real boy
▶ 0:56:49was aired about a trans te navigating adolescent sobriety and the ramification of his gender identity in 2022 the same series aired our league in which a transom comes to her old school Ohio bowling league in a story about transition then in 2024 a racist trees was aired telling a story of how in Palm Springs a black neighborhood fights to remove a divisive wall of trees do you think PBS finds needs to fund ridiculous
▶ 0:57:19material such as this that the taxpayers are having to pay for these are documentary films that are poting view pieces that are part of our prime time schedule for adults and parents and adults don't trust that type of programming thank you madam chair uh I ask a unanimous consent uh to enter into the record uh this letter from 72 public radio stations serving
▶ 0:57:49rural communities across the country um where they emphasize how important Federal funding is to the ability to provide vital Public Safety information without objections so ordered okay I also have a similar letter from Georgia from the uh Georgia PBS NPR station also asking for consideration for federal funding without objection so ordered thank you um Miss ker and and and Miss Mah um can we talk a
▶ 0:58:19little bit about uh the educational um service you provide for for children of lowincome families and and how that um that is received and uh the trust that you've generated among among families in situation yes a significant part of our broadcast day uh is devoted to programming for children we focus on preschool
▶ 0:58:50uh that is goes back to the legacy of Fred Rogers who believed that media could be a tool to help to instruct children as well as a tool of entertainment our programming is focused on core skills that kids need to develop before they enter School in math and in learning numbers and in learning letters so that kids that don't have the opportunity to be in a formal prek program have a chance to walk into school for the first time on equal footing with kids that have more
▶ 0:59:20opportunity and that's the heart of what we think about in the programming that we develop for kids now I know you've done some well independent uh groups have done uh assessments on um on trust the trust factor that that parents have uh on PBS Kids which is one of your most popular um uh Services uh can you can you talk about that where did you come in in terms of the the um you know the the comparison
▶ 0:59:50to other stations yeah we're we are the most trusted media brand in fact Parents Magazine this week week just run the ran the results of a study that was done on Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood actually looking at 16-year-olds that remember some of the basic skills they learned as small children and what we're focused on is to make sure again that every child has the opportunity to learn and be excited about about the world around them when they enter a school for the first time and to give them those core basic skills that we can see they carry
▶ 1:00:21forward uh in life um Miss mAh I'd like you to focus on um the work that public media is doing in relation to Public Safety Communications um how important is is this function of of public broadcast media particularly I'm talking about the most rural uh most remote communities uh in this country thank you so much Congressman we are part of the national Next
▶ 1:00:51Generation warning system for which we've received a significant investment over the course of the last few years and many thanks to Congress for supporting that appropriation our stations are busy implementing that Across the Nation we also are part of the national or sorry excuse me the Statewide emergency plans for more than 20 States you'll see the importance and value of public radio in particular when we Face climate or sorry excuse me extreme weather for example whether
▶ 1:01:21in Ashland North Carolina recently we Blue Ridge Public Radio was the only news information Source available for nearly 2 weeks as people struggled with outages of water and electricity and certainly outages of cell phones and internet recently as well my colleague from Alaska would be able to speak to Raven public media which had a very similar experience of two weeks of outages in which the local media station was again the only source of information for that Community when everything else goes down public
▶ 1:01:51radio is there available to First Responders to be able to communicate directly about issues of harm uh and ensure the public has v access to vital critical information now I mean there's a lot of information out there a lot of stations out there but we're talking what's what's the difference here when you have a pay wall free non-subscription access for for some of these communities I think it makes all the difference in the world sir we recently uh as I mentioned in my opening statement
▶ 1:02:21we're one of the only Publications in America that has a dedicated veterans beat and the only one without a pay wall I'm always struck by something that our veterans reporter told me which is that a mother of one of our troops deployed overseas came to him and said that for the first time in N9 months she'd heard his son's voice that's something that I believe only public media can do and it can only do that because it is available to all Americans without any barriers thank you madam chair I yield back I now recognize
▶ 1:02:52chairman comr from Kentucky for five minutes thank you thank you madam chair Mr man I'm glad you brought up a point it's been mentioned a couple of times already at the early start of this hearing about Rural and remote and and I have to tell this story when I graduated from college with a degree in agriculture I went back to rural Monroe County Kentucky uh and worked on a farm my farm for five years full-time uh Farm to this day but fulltime I was in a
▶ 1:03:22tractor sometimes 10 12 14 hours a day and I listened to the radio and the only radio station I could get that had news was was public radio so I listen to as many hours of public radio as anyone on this panel I can assure you and it was a it was a great service that was 30 some years ago today in that same remote area I mean you've got SiriusXM you've got podcast there's internet access now there's a whole
▶ 1:03:53menu of of media options now so but over time and I still occasionally listen to NPR because I just want to hear what they have to say and I don't even recognize the station anymore it's not news it I feel like it's propaganda I feel like there's disinformation every time I listen to NPR and you know a media entity like MSNBC or Huffington Post
▶ 1:04:23that in my opinion consistently spew use disinformation they can do that that's they're a private company but NPR gets funds and and you know I have a problem with that because if people in in Alaska if all they have is public radio then all they know is what these headlines say and they're wrong about covid-19 and the headlines are in the background don't have time to go over all these headlines that are wrong about Russian collusion
▶ 1:04:53wrong wrong about the hunter Biden laptop wrong and then there's a story about me and and part of what we went through on this committee during the Biden investigation which by the way ended with Joe Biden's last act as president of the United States pardoned his entire family preemptively for an 11year period which just so happened to be the 11-year period that this committee investigated the bidens that we had subpoena bank records I don't think NPR reported
▶ 1:05:24about the pardons but they reported a lot about how the there was no evidence of any wrongdoing and things that just weren't true in fact there's a story NPR law lawmaker leading Hunter Biden house investigation accused of owning a shell company well that's me Miss mayor do you are you familiar with that that story that NPR wrote about me at the height of the Biden investigation when when you all were disputing every
▶ 1:05:54aspect of our investigation that is 100% factual we have hundreds of pages of evidence hundreds of pages of bank records hundreds of pages of emails do you remember the story that that NP wrote about about me saying I had a shell company uh Congressman I was not at NPR at the time and I'm unfamiliar with the story where do you get your sources on something like that's a very serious accusation because we're investigating a president and his family who had 28
▶ 1:06:25shell companies I have an LLC had five properties in it it's in my financial disclosure form uh I've gone into great detail given lots of interviews but but people that listen to NPR they're disinform on the truth and and you know I have a problem with that because you get federal funds and I do believe there was a role for public radio 30 years ago maybe 20 years ago maybe five years ago
▶ 1:06:56but because of technology today I don't think there's a role for public radio anymore and I think you've abused the privilege that that you had with receiving federal funds because these headlines here are not true this is disinformation on on some huge topics do you want to dispute anything that I said in the in the remaining 30 seconds thank you Congressman uh first of all I want to recognize their concerns one of the first
▶ 1:07:26things that I did in coming in in May was to beef up our editorial standards I directed my editor-in chief who by the way why is NPR even doing editorials I'm should do editorials I I don't mean editorial in terms of opinion editorial I you even need op what what does it matter with opin if you're if you're if you're a federally funded entity that's supposed to provide the news I can you not provide the news balance of course Congressman I mean editorial standards for our journalism
▶ 1:07:57was to beef up our editorial practices bringing in more editors to make sure that we have more points of view reflected in every story I've engaged in a number of actions and my time expired I've lost confidence in public radio I don't think Madam chair they should get a penny of federal funds I you back thank you Mr chairman I now recognize Mr Garcia from California for five minutes well thank you uh Madam chairwoman I want to first begin by thanking all of our our witnesses that are here today
▶ 1:08:27I know that um there's a lot we should be discussing right now at this hearing we've of course had some pretty shocking security breaches that we're just learning about through about a lot of our national security officials we know that Peak hex should be removed from office or should resign we have Donald Trump who of course is crashing the stock market he's taken away millions millions of programs and hurting people across this country to fund tax giveaways to billionaires and our constituents can access their social security benefits
▶ 1:08:58now I think actually chairwoman green supports everything that the Trump Administration is actually doing so instead of a hear of a serious hearing we're here to attack NPR and PBS so let's get right into it now miss ker the American people want to know is Elmo now or has he ever been a member of the Communist Party of the United States a yes or no no now are you sure miss ker because he's obviously red
▶ 1:09:28well he is a puppet but no now that's not all he also has a very dangerous message about sharing and helping each other he's indoctrinating our kids that sharing is caring now maybe he's part of a major socialist plot and maybe that's why the CH woman is having this hearing today but let's talk about somebody else let's talk about Cookie Monster now we know that Health secretary RFK Jr is coming out against fast food and bit goods are we silencing Pro cookie voters yes or
▶ 1:09:58no Miss gger but cookies are a sometime food well thank you and now I I I I agree with you and let's also talk about the most important maybe character on Sesame Street this is actually Big Bird now miss ker since Elon Musk actually fired USDA workers who have been working on the bird flu does it make sense to also fire Big Bird yes or no we would like to keep Big Bird I I I compl completely agree with you and now it gets it gets even worse now this is actually a
▶ 1:10:29a tweet that big bird actually sent out about the covid-19 vaccine encouraging folks to actually get their vaccination which of course we believe in vaccines now perhaps the reason why we're having this hearing is because our chairwoman Miss green has actually said some really negative things about getting vaccinations and that perhaps is why we are here and so we support Big Bird being pro vaccine and promoting vaccines across this country now I will admit though the extreme liberal agenda that you're all pushing I think doesn't
▶ 1:10:59stop there this of course is Burton Ernie now these two guys actually live together they're friends they're supportive of each other now that might be triggering to our chairwoman and and some on this committee and perhaps that's also why we're here today Miss ker an important question are Burton Ernie part of an extreme homosexual agenda no thank you Miss ker and thank you for being a good sport now obviously using some humor here but the fact that we're sitting here today talking about defunding
▶ 1:11:30public television is actually not funny at a time where we can't agree on basic facts and while the Free Press is under attack we need public media like PBS and NPR more than ever a large majority of Americans say they trust PBS and that's exactly why extremists are trying to tear it down public broadcasting is a tool for education for emergencies and a cheris part of our national fabric we get huge benefits from a tiny Federal investment
▶ 1:12:00the majority and our chairwoman should drop this attempt to silence media voices they don't like so the message I think today is very very simple if we're going to get rid of any puppeteers we should get rid of the one that's actually controlling Donald Trump fire Elon Musk and save Elmo and with that I yield back I now recognize Mr cloud from Texas for 5 minutes thank You chairwoman
▶ 1:12:30NPR fancies itself as a nonpartisan news Outlet public information Outlet uh even says that we should consider all things all things are considered yet their history of political bias has shown that there are a number of things they have not considered they asked us not to consider that the hunter Biden laptop was real they dismissed the what was always the most probable theory of the covid lab leak from Wuhan uh they interviewed Russia collusion hoer Adam schift 25 times who
▶ 1:13:00claimed to have a vault of information in his office uh leading to the impeachment of President Trump which of course we now know was all fraudulent I'd like to submit for the record an article by Erie Berlinger I've been at NPR for 25 years here's how we lost America's trust without objection so NPR unfortunately has lost much of the the audience that they used to have and now they have a very partisan audience because of this uh who do they bring in to fix it
▶ 1:13:31they bring in Miss mayair who has a history of comment in commentary of promoting Marxist ideology including critical theory uh said we should not use the terms boy or girl has called our president a deranged racist sociopath and said that our reverence for the truth has become a distraction that is preventing us from finding consensus in getting important things done and one could look at that and think that maybe in your view promoting group think is more important than finding the
▶ 1:14:01truth I thought we like diversity of ideas especially um and and that as an online encyclopedia that you used to manage activism was more important than accuracy now I had an uncle who used to say that uh you should never let the truth get in the way of find of a good story and while that was humorous when we were talking about weekend fishing Expeditions when we're talking about news and information and encyclopedias and things that are of national importance I find that very troubling now
▶ 1:14:31you are here managing NPR which is in part federally funded can we expect that you will bring the same lack of reverence for truth to your management NPR thank you Congressman first of all I do want to say that NPR acknowledges that we were mistaken in failing to cover the hunter Biden laptop story more aggressively and sooner our current editorial leadership Wuhan uh we recognized that we were reporting at the time but we acknowledge that the new CIA evidence is worthy of coverage and have covered it what have you done to clean up
▶ 1:15:01the bias before you you me I wasn't there for that what are you doing to clean up and make sure that we have absolutely thank you Congressman uh as I mentioned I came in in May Mr Berliner published his story two weeks into my tenure regarding stories that had happened prior I wish that I had had the opportunity to speak with Mr Berliner I would have loved to have had him engage and come back to us with some suggestions as to what we could do at a toily in order to address what he perceived as bias now now you've had a long history including the the thing that I mentioned uh
▶ 1:15:31about lack of reverence for Truth uh and how reverence for truth you've even talked about the First Amendment kind of getting in the way of what you want it to get done um and and then you're wanting us to believe that NPR is now taking this non-biased approach I mean where was the come to Jesus moment for you I guess that has uh turned you around and that we can trust the American taxpayer dollars with your leadership of PR I i' so appreciate the opportunity to perhaps clarify some things my talk about truth was really referencing
▶ 1:16:02the way that people use truth to refer to belief as opposed to facts and my encouragement was that we focus on facts with regards to the First Amendment that's not what your comment said your comments said that truth was getting the way of getting things done and that you were prioritizing what you wanted to get done over truth my uh and that's really unfortunate I want to go to a different context because you're allowed to have your political opinion any news organization uh should be going after the truth that's what we want and expect out of news organizations
▶ 1:16:32but certainly a media platform can can have whatever opinion it wants in a free Society the question before us today as a committee is whether or not the taxpayers should be forced to pay for this kind of thing uh Mr Gonzalez I wanted to to to get your take on this uh about why the corporate public broadcasting uh is it still relevant today I mean we're in a different context than we were in the 60s where maybe not every home had a television now many of them have multiple televisions and certainly
▶ 1:17:02uh we most have a screen in their pocket uh most times during the day I I have three here on my desk uh and so it seems like we're in a different context like where could we possibly get the news today or information could you speak to the importance uh or or lack thereof of uh the corporation of public broadcasting in the context of of where we are today in society yeah right when it came on after the passage of the ' 67 public uh broadcasting act in the early' 70s there were only three networks we had uh kog
▶ 1:17:32kite reer and the other guy and and PBS added by a third the number of networks that we had that's not the case today and as far as education which has been diminished and by the way I believe that Sesame Street was sold to HBO 10 years ago uh but but as as far as the number the educational value we have an an unending stream of educ ational content online I could I could reel off a number of websites in in that people can access YouTube channels where
▶ 1:18:03K kids of all income levels can access educational content so it but basically as I said in my testimony it goes back to the basic unfairness that conservatives for 50 years have been saying but you're completely biased and they have the audacity to say oh no we're not and and and you have to just pay us and it's uh it's it's just that's that is the basic the gentleman's time has expired thank you Mr Gonzalez
▶ 1:18:34I ask un oh sorry ask unanimous consent to enter into the record uh a an article published today by Yuri Berliner about NPR um basically saying that the bias has not changed Madame chair I also have a unanimous unanimous consent request from the members who are at Mr gala's funeral mass this morning uh asking to submit into the record this letter of support for federal funding from W without objection which is
▶ 1:19:04Kentucky radio which is where Mr comr uh wrote his uh without objection so ordered trctor thank you I recognize the gentleman uh Mr casar from Texas for five minutes good morning Mr Gonzalez you wrote the proposal to defund n PR PBS and public broadcasting for project 2025 can you answer a few questions for me how many millions of dollars a month do
▶ 1:19:34taxpayers spend for Daniel Tiger to golf I have no idea who the answer is none okay uh to your knowledge has Miss Piggy ever been caught trying to funnel billions of dollars in government contracts to herself and to her companies that's a silly question well the answer is no uh how about Arthur the arvar has he ever fired independent government Watchdogs who are investigating his companies the answer is no madame chair I'm told we're here to talk about government efficiency
▶ 1:20:05but Daniel Tiger has not blown $10 million of taxpayer money to play golf with his friends but Donald Trump has just at the beginning of his administration Miss Piggy hasn't been caught funneling billions of dollars in government contracts to herself but Elon Musk has and Arthur has not fired independent government Watchdogs investigating him and his companies but Elon Musk has fired at least five so once again my Republican colleagues are dragging in a scapegoat
▶ 1:20:35this time PBS and NPR to try to distract from the fact that Trump and musk are robbing working people it's Sesame Street that's making things expensive it's Mr Rogers that's blowing taxpayer money it's listeners like you it's absurd the total funding for Public Broadcasting is just one sixth the amount that Elon musk's companies make off of the government every single year but you will not see Elon Musk being grilled
▶ 1:21:05by this committee I've seen a lot but pointing the finger at Elmo to cover for Elon Musk might be a new low for Miss margorie Taylor greens committee I don't think Americans are buying it here's what I think we should be having a hearing about after Trump and musk took over the government reporters noticed the state department was trying to funnel 400 million taxpayer dollars to Tesla the state department said it's
▶ 1:21:35an old contract no news here but because of a brave whistleblower and an NPR reporter they exposed the corruption and the lies Madame chairwoman if we want to look into waste for aen abuse why not look into that Elon Musk who's running cabinet meetings who's running the White House was trying to money to himself so let's stop investigating Cookie Monster and start investigating how the Trump Administration lied about this and was trying to funnel money to their biggest political supporter
▶ 1:22:06maybe you're trying to defund NPR because they expose this kind of corruption and if Republicans were serious about investigating waste front abuse my colleagues would admit that big bird is not the problem big Tech is Big Pharma is Big insurance companies are Elon musk's companies make billions three billion dollars a year off of Government contracts that's six times the money that goes to all of public broadcasting private insurers and Medicare Advantage overcharged taxpayers
▶ 1:22:36$83 billion just last year that could pay for Public Broadcasting 160 times over the $45 trillion dollar tax cut for the ultra wealthy that Republicans on this committee are trying to push through that would pay for Public Broadcasting 9,000 times is over there is money to pay not just for PBS and NPR but health care for every American tuition free trade school and Community College for every American to end homelessness on the streets of our cities
▶ 1:23:07but my Republican colleagues don't want to talk about the corporate waste Fraud and Abuse because those corporations fund the Republicans campaigns so instead they want to shut down educational programming for kids and their families and they want to shut down local radio stations to borrow a phrase from Sesame Street the letter of the day is C and it stands for corruption look in my home City of Austin Texas we have Austin City Limits which decade after decade after decade has chronicled American music
▶ 1:23:38and if they had a bad season and it was Private TV they just would have shut it down and we wouldn't have had decade after decade after decade of Austin City Limits that's the amazing thing about public broadcasting I have a lot of public housing residents in the San Antonio side of my district when I talk to them and they hear about what's going on in Washington DC they talk about Texas public radio and I just heard my colleagues talking about educational programming for kids on YouTube that stuff is loaded with ads and also on other forms
▶ 1:24:08of private television they're selling you and your kids stuff making people feel bad they're trying to make a profit off of you that's you know that's why I got sat in front of Mr Rogers because you got to learn something and they weren't just trying to sell you junk it's better for our kids it's better for families and we should actually be supporting public broadcasting instead of this stuff um Madam chair leave alo alone bring Elon in for questioning instead I now recognize Mr Timmons from South Carolina for five
▶ 1:24:38minutes thank you madam chair I want to thank the witnesses for being here today I'm going to begin by saying this we don't want to shut down NPR PBS but we have $ 36 trillion doll in debt and we have run a $ 1.8 trillion annual deficit and we are um scouring all govern govern spending not just uh Democrat priorities but Republican priorities too we're going to be going through the defense budget we're going to be um making sure that we are spending our taxpayer dollars wisely because we have an existential threat we have an existential threat we cannot continue down this
▶ 1:25:08path financially so we do not want to shut you down but we cannot continue down this path and so if our debt is part of the reason we're here I think another part of the reason we're here reevaluating your role and the government's um use of taxpayer dollars to partially fund your Institution ions is because technology has changed everything we are not living 1967 and um the internet has has changed our society we have such increased social interconnectedness and there are
▶ 1:25:38uh various options for people to get news and to get disinformation or information whatever you want to get so those are the two kind of reasons I want to start with and that's probably half the problem we're here for the other half is your perceived um bias and your uh content moderation and the manner in which you are violating journalistic Integrity um and I'll say this NPR you have been far worse at this Miss ker you
▶ 1:26:08have done a much better job at this but we still have some issues we're going to talk about um Miss Maher do you think that the public statements you have made on social media create um a challenge in your leadership for what should be an unbiased uh public information system do do you think that your past comments I'll give you a better question did they come up in your job interview like do you see a problem uh Congressman thank you for the question no I they never came up in my job interview it you're a rabid Progressive
▶ 1:26:39like and do you not think it's a problem that your political leanings um make it seem to the American people that that you're not biased and you're not doing your job because you agree that your job is to have journalistic integrity right absolutely but there is a strong fire wall between The Newsroom and anything that I let's talk about The Newsroom you have 87 uh registered Democrats not a single Republican in your in your editor board so I mean how does that work to give us the perception that you're doing your job of actually delivering unbiased
▶ 1:27:09information well I would agree with you that that number is a concern if it is accurate I do believe that we need to have journalists who represent the full breadth of the American society so that we can report well for all Americans well I think that you are failing I realize you've only been there for a year but I I just really think that while it is a small portion of your budget you very much should expect to restructure your revenue streams because I I don't think that NPR is necessarily worth saving and I'm going to go on to miss ker um I will say this you
▶ 1:27:39have been very professional and you have been there for decades and I think that you've done a fairly good job over your tenure but I want to ask you a very simple question in retrospect do you think that it was inappropriate to put the the drag queen on the kid show do you think that was a a mistake the drag queen was actually not on any of our kid shows the image that um that um chairman Taylor green showed was from a project that our New York City station did with the New York
▶ 1:28:09City Department of Education day did it air it did not air it was a it was a digital project they did for the Department of Education do you think it only appeared on our website anything to do with PBS do you think that that human I mean do you see it was not a PB it was not for PBS it was mistakenly put it on our website by I'm sorry I don't mean to talk over you it was mistakenly put on our website by our New York City station it was not intended for National Distribution it was immediately pulled down it was never broadcast do you think that you should publish
▶ 1:28:39something that calls trees racist is that in retrospect should you have published uh that I'm not sure what you referring to you had a segment that call it was called racist trees and it was a I mean we've already referenced it number of times so I mean do you think trees can be racist I guess that's a good one I I've I don't know what you're talking about I've never heard of what you're referring to all right well but I'd be happy to look into it I guess last do you think that it's appropriate to expose children um to
▶ 1:29:09issues of trans transitioning do you see a problem with that uh is that something you should avoid that is not anything on any of our children's programs at all Miss ker you have done a far better job here today and um we're going to continue to have this conversation but again we have $36 trillion in debt and we're trying to figure out how to make sure that our kids and our grandkids have an opportunity at the American dream because if we don't change course financially they won't um thank you I yeld back thank you
▶ 1:29:40I now recognize the gentle woman from Texas Miss Crockett for five minutes thank you so much it should not be surprising that the president is doing everything possible to make it more difficult for the media to hold him accountable and for the public to be informed about his Reckless and illegal Behavior yet here we are the Republicans have actually organized this goofy hearing to try to convince the American people that PBS and NPR are quote domestic terrorist or domestic threats my apologies not
▶ 1:30:10the incompetent unqualified Secretary of Defense who's texting War plan who's texting War plans to journalist but it's it's y'all PBS and NPR the American people are supposed to be worried about you can't make this up it's as stupid as it sounds the American people should be worried about the president threatening to investigate MBC for treason for reporting on his felony convictions or arresting reporters and stripping networks of their licenses for not saying
▶ 1:30:40nice things about him or not using Gulf of America the Republicans witness Mr Gonzalez went so far as to suggest that because NPR and PBS reported on the murder of George Floyd they quote represent a danger to our physical health as well as to Civic health of our body politics Miss mayor do you think reporting on the murder of George Floyd and highlighting instances of systemic racism is a domestic threat to
▶ 1:31:11America thank you congresswoman I believe it's our responsibility to report on all issues of interest to the American public thank you so much Miss ker what about you I agree I think it's important for us to report on the on the important news of the day so let's talk about the critical role of public media during his first term president Trump's own Department of Homeland Security highlighted the importance of public broadcasting's role in Public Safety in 2018 his administration stated quote PBS
▶ 1:31:41and local public television stations play a crucial role in protecting communities by delivering essential information to individuals and First Responders these benefits are all made possible by public broadcast stations unique reach reliability and role Across America and are especially vital in Rule and underserved areas Madam chairwoman I would ask unanimous consent I seek unanimous consent to enter into the record the 28th without OB so
▶ 1:32:11ordered uh and Madam chair I also seek unanimous consent to enter into the record the 2019 report titled modernizing the nation's public alert and warning system from Trump's without objection so ordered in the report FEMA encouraged quote the use of public broadcast capabilities to expand Alert warning and communication capabilities to fill gaps in Rule and underserved areas Mr Ol Man what's a more significant domestic threat reporting the murder of George Floyd or dismantling most of America's emergency
▶ 1:32:41systems can you please repeat the question for me congresswoman which one is more of a threat reporting the murder of George Floyd or dismantling most of America's emergency communication systems dismantling the emergency systems and isn't it true that in alas Barrow Alaska is the only I'm sorry and isn't it true that KB rwam in burrow Alaska is the only broadcast service available in an area
▶ 1:33:11of more than 990,000 square miles that is correct it's also the North Slope where the majority of all the oil production that comes from Alaska is takes place thank you so much and isn't it true that with Southeast stations broadcast um Americans in rural communities would lack access to life-saving information and Public Safety alerts that is correct so in your opinion would eliminating funding for stations in Rural America like wgh channel 18 and the chairwoman's district hurt Americans it would hurt
▶ 1:33:41Americans yes in fact Georgia public broadcasting serves as the official distributor of evacuation route information during State ordered evacuations and the chairwoman is here advocating to strip their funding look the Doge agenda isn't about government efficiency it's about breeding corruption at the expense of the safety of the American people particularly Americans living in rule or remote parts of the country they don't care about Public Safety they don't care about Emergency Management and they don't care about Free Speech all of which are harming American people in fact I'mma skip
▶ 1:34:11off real quick because they have tried to come for you miss mayor and I just want to clarify you did not work for NPR when those statements were made did you that is correct Mam and to be clear free speech is not about whatever it is that y'all want somebody to say and the idea that you want to shut down everybody that is not Fox News is we need to stop playing because that's what y'all are doing in here you don't want to hear the opinions and any of anybody else and the Constitution says Congress shall
▶ 1:34:41make no law respecting or establishing of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the the gentle woman's time has expired the gentle woman's time has expired Madam chair can I put something into the record unanimous consent please without objection so ordered thank you I'd like to um put under this NPR article uh what Biden preemptive pardons for family members could mean for presidential Powers if I could submit through the without objection so ordered I now
▶ 1:35:12recognize the gentleman from Ohio Jim Jordan for five minutes uh thank you madam chair Miss Maher who is Erie Berliner Mr Berliner is a former senior editor that's all the former senior business editor for NPR how long do you work at NPR I believe he was there just over 25 years 25 years award-winning journalist did he win any awards uh I our time to body award that's pretty important isn't it that is abely pretty distinguished journalist right certainly and uh wrote he wrote a long
▶ 1:35:42story about what you do at NPR is NPR biased uh Congressman I have never seen any instance of never of political bias determining editorial decisions no well Miss B Mr uh Berliner in his story a coup last year wrote I've in the DC area editorial positions at NPR he said he found 87 registered Democrats zero Republicans is that accurate
▶ 1:36:12uh we do not track the numbers or the voter registration but I find that was award-winning journalist who worked 25 years at NPR Mr Berliner was he lying when he wrote that I am not presuming such I just don't have we don't track that information about our journalists 87 to zero and you're not biased I think that is concerning if those numbers are accurate it's concern I mean it wasn't 4443 it wasn't 6027 it wasn't 7017 it wasn't even 80 to7 it was 87
▶ 1:36:43Democrats zero Republicans and you say NPR is not biased how about the big stories over the last few years according to Mr Berliner again he wrote on the Trump Russia story he wrote at NPR we hitched our wagon to Trump's most visible antagonist representative Adam Shi he said they interviewed him 25 times is that accurate uh I was not there at the time but those numbers sound accurate yes those those sound accurate but then he said when the Muller report came out and they said Muller said Robert
▶ 1:37:13Muller said he found no evidence of collusion he said Russia gate faded from our programming is that accurate again I was not there at the time I'm not I couldn't say you couldn't say I was not at NPR at the time you didn't prepare for that you knew we were going to ask you about this guy didn't you it's come up like 6,000 times already in the hearing I just couldn't say whether it faded from our uh coverage sir how about this story October 2020 the New York Post had the hunter Biden laptop story and one of those editors I guess one of those 87 Democrat
▶ 1:37:43editors said this we don't want to waste our time on stories that are not really stories we don't want to waste the listeners and readers times on stories that are just pure distractions was that a pure distraction story our current editorial leadership believes that that was a mistake as do I yeah the whole country knows that was a mistake definitely impacted the election or I think it certainly impacted the election how about the covid origin story that's pretty big story too right Mr Berliner said we became fervent members of the team natural origin even
▶ 1:38:13declaring that the lab leak was debunked by scientists turns out though the lab leak is what most people think actually caused the co virus sorry sir is there a question there there is is you guys were 0 for three on on the three three of the biggest stories in The Last 5 Years you guys were 0 for three and yet you maintain that NPR is not biased uh Congressman I do not believe we are politically biased no we are a nonpartisan organization nonpartisan organization what's happened to your listeners over the last five years went up down or stayed
▶ 1:38:43the same uh it has gone up and down and is now going back up well I I thought five years ago was at 60 million and you said in your opening statement I think 43 million that's correct so 43 million now and it was at 60 million 5 years ago I can do some math that looks like it went down and is now going back up is now going back up yes it is how much has it went back up it's gone up a couple of millions over the past year oh so you you went from 60 million to 41 million now you're back up to 43 million uh in a year's time I'm
▶ 1:39:14very proud of that growth sir okay you're proud of that that growth okay but over five years this went down 18 million that is correct sir okay uh should taxpayers subsidize NPR uh I believe that tax tax payers subsidize local stations sir that is the vast majority of I thought you said you got 11 million from Corporation of public broadcasting which is taxpayer funding directly to you right that is to support the public local stations get it from The Corporation for Public Broadcasting that right they get tax 100 million that goes to the local million goes to local stations and then those local stations buy back programming content from you
▶ 1:39:44so that money goes to the local stations comes back to you gets routed through the local stations it's all taxpayer money those fees are actually based on private donations rather than on federal funding well we all know money is fungible so some of it gets put in there um certainly we could we could agree that money is fungible what more money for Less listeners you fired the guy who pointed all this out who said that you were so biased to the left that you lost listeners which exactly happening and you're here maintaining that oh you need you need to continue to get taxpayer money I did not fire Mr Berliner sir
▶ 1:40:14okay the guy that that left after all that understand understand are are you fundraising off today's hearing uh sir I believe that there was a message that went out earlier today letting people know we were coming in yes yeah and at the bottom of the message it said donate now right I don't recall the exact language I show it to you right there it is donate now I mean I'm not against fundraising we all do it I me I get it but it's I assume this this this fundraising thing is probably going to all the left listeners who were subsidized content
▶ 1:40:44by the taxpayers and that's the the gentlemen's time ised that's the r are you back I now recognize Miss Randall from Washington for 5 minutes thank you so much you know I um I'm new to uh Congress this is my first term and I came from a a a legislative body that um didn't have quite as heated debates
▶ 1:41:15in our um committees and um we're generally fairly welcoming to our um folks joining us to testify so I want to say thank you to all of you for taking the time out of your schedule to come and share your experience with all of us and with the American people I'm grateful um for your time and um for the work that you do in service of um your communities and
▶ 1:41:45neighbors you know American families used to get all the same news right folks would have access to a handful of news channels they would watch the same Nightly News programs they would go from one to the other to the other and we could all agree on what was happening in country we all used to operate from the same Baseline of information but today it is um no secret
▶ 1:42:15that we are operating in a much more Diversified and fractured media environment the conent space the use of AI generated content Americans now have to be able to discern for themselves whether something they are hearing is true or not but investing in public media is a Bedrock to our healthy critically informed and engaged public and our democracy and I know that my colleagues
▶ 1:42:46on the other side of the aisle have argued over whether every piece of programming is in service of the public public but I also want to point out that you know in my fairly rural District um we have a lot of areas that aren't served by Broadband you know a lot of folks who cannot easily access numerous podcasts while they are out working on their property they you know have to maybe wait for something to download
▶ 1:43:16when they're at home uh using maybe even a wired internet connection right like um I Lose I'm in a dead zone for about an hour and a half as I'm driving from one city to another in my community um but public radio is broadly accessible and it's important for you know folks counting on the weather report for kids who are
▶ 1:43:47you know in Pre kindergarten who are watching Elmo and learning to count and do math it's important for the young people who you know were home during covid and were able to continue learning with the help of public broadcasting I think we have a lot of problems in this country a lot of problems that we should be tackling for regular Americans
▶ 1:44:17who are struggling to afford to live to afford housing to afford healthare to be able to live the lives that they dream of for themselves and their children I think we've got some National Security concerns that have been talked about a lot in this committee but I think talking about defunding public broadcasting and public media is an egregious misuse of our time
▶ 1:44:49here um Mr om man when we talk about cutting funds for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting we're talking about those local small stations that rely on that money um 70% of Corporation for Public Broadcasting funding goes directly to public radio I know you've worked in Tacoma in the past and kind of attest to how some how rural some parts of Western Washington are it's not all
▶ 1:45:19Tacoma um what role do public media stations like NPR and PBS play in supporting local stations what kind of programming do they provide the local communities are at the heart of the work we do as I shared in my opening remarks we talk about the people and the places there uh you bring up a memory of mine chahalis Aberdine hokim area hokim area kbtc was the only public television station there you know about
▶ 1:45:49the struggles that that Community was having uh over a decade ago job loss all kinds of terrible economic situations we provided Educational Services there with a half a million dollar local grant that we partnered with the community on it was incredible work we do the same thing in Alaska with military families homeschoolers elementary schools uh those are the pieces we provide and then local news stories
▶ 1:46:20that people can use about where they live live and what they do that's what we do that would be lost for a minute thank you so much Madam chair yield be thank you I now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee Mr burett for five minutes thank you chair lady Miss carer is it true that HBO bought the rights to Sesame Street no it did not it um developed um Sesame Street entered a an arrangement with HBO for a
▶ 1:46:50number of years it was a Arrangement correct yes which allowed us to get the series for free during the period of that time much how much money was transacted during I don't know Sesame Street is a private um organization it is separate from ours okay uh Miss Maher what about Lee Greenwoods God Bless the USA as propaganda I'm sorry sir could you repeat the question what about Lee Greenwoods God Bless the USA is propaganda uh I don't believe
▶ 1:47:20that is propaganda sir okay well in January County public radio and that's a subsidiary of NPR had Daphney Brooks who apparently is a black feminism scholar on its show where she it was hosted by the host Britney L and it says have you ever watched something on TV and thought okay now this is propaganda have you ever had that moment to which Daphne Brooks replied whenever I see Lee Greenwood singing proud to be an American
▶ 1:47:50I believe that represents the individual ual we interviewed on Aaron not the position did you say there's no bias on NPR that is not that is not a that is not a bias statement man that is not even both parties wrap themselves around this song every time there's a national conflict Lee Greenwood sings it and he does a beautiful job but you say there there is no bias in NPR that is that individual's opinion and she of course is entitled to it but that is not the position of NPR ma'am you said in your opening statement that that
▶ 1:48:21uh you were going to be transformed formative and I I believe you failed to do that um let me ask you why did you call President Trump a fascist in a deranged racist sociopath in 2020 oh Congressman I appreciate the opportunity to address this I regret those tweets I would not tweet them again today I they represented a time where I was reflecting on something that I believe that the president had said rather than who he is I don't presume that anyone is a racist would you don't believe anyone is a racist I don't start by presuming anyone is a
▶ 1:48:51racist sir okay um has NPR or PBS ever conducted an internal re review to assess whether conservative or right Ling perspectives are fairly representative news and programming Congress what we look at is the distribution of people who listen to our work and we can tell you and I'm proud to tell you that for our digital our podcasts and our website the distribution of Americans who come to NPR does reflect
▶ 1:49:21the political distribution of the nation in fact the Distribution on our websites 33% of folks who come are conservative versus 28% who are liberal and the rest identify as independent so the largest group is conservatives who come to NPR's websites so you believe that most Americans think president Trump is a fascist and deranged RAC racist sociopath I don't believe that at all sir okay ma'am we obviously are are constantly
▶ 1:49:52looking at the voices that we bring forward we take to heart our commitment to Bringing forward perspectives from across the country our programming comes from our local stations and I mentioned in my opening comment the um series that we did out of Aransas Southern storytellers that's just one little example 10% of our schedule is is news the rest of it is either children's programming or programming based on history to give us all a collective expression and we're constantly
▶ 1:50:22looking to making sure that we're bringing forward a diversity of viewpoints in perspectives and experiences that really do make up the fabric of this country okay NPR senior editor ER lonard it's been mentioned before but he said he was quoted to saying an open-minded Spirit no longer exists with within n and now predictably we don't have an audience that reflects America yet you stated that that the audience does reflect America um he was
▶ 1:50:52suspended without pay for 5 days for saying this and of course he eventually resigned in April 2024 you've also stated that Federal funding is essential for NPR to operate but also claim only 1% of your funding comes from the federal government which is it uh Mr Berliner was suspended for the outside work policy not for what he said sir in terms of federal funding the federal funds go to support our operation of the public radio satellite system which enables all of our local stations to be able
▶ 1:51:22to communicate information and broadcast incling stated earlier ma'am funding is very fungible it flows wherever it needs to um I don't buy that argument I wonder if any of the members of the committee would comment real quickly would you agree that um real America's voice Newsmax fox or news Nation if they were to see federal funds would you all support that yes or no Mr om man yes or no I'd have to get back to you on that ma'am
▶ 1:51:53yeah I actually don't have an opinion about that ma'am I I don't have an opinion about that sir that would be congress's decision thank you chair lady thank you I now recognize I now yield to ah the gentleman from California Mr cona for five minutes thank you madam chair and thank you for allowing me to wave on to the committee Mr uh Gonzalez I read with interest your testimony it was so angry so I thought I'd try to lighten things up a little bit uh
▶ 1:52:23who are three of your favorite characters on Daniel Tiger or what episodes do you are your favorites um representating Connor Thank you very much for the opportunity to lighten up um I again I think i' taking a time machine here Sesame Street went to Daniel Tiger do you have some favorite characters oh the owl any any no none what what does AA Maga mean to you nothing you don't you've never heard the expression ugamuga
▶ 1:52:54yeah I don't think so no it's just it's affection have have you ever watched a Daniel Tiger show or know any families who watch a Daniel Tiger show I don't think so no you've never watched one seen do you do you know what uh what Daniel Tiger is a successor to I don't know D Daniel Tiger so I don't know what he's a success no the show what it's a successor to do you know no you really don't know I really all of history it's a successor to Mr Rogers oh there you go okay yeah Mr Rogers I know okay do
▶ 1:53:24you are you familiar with his 1969 testimony I am uh he said I want to quote because it's one of my favorites I studied this actually going to school it's some of the most effective testimony in Congress he said I give an expression of care every day to each child to help him realize that he is unique I end the program by saying you've made this day a special day by just be being you're being you there's no person in the whole world like you and I like you just the way you are Senator Pastor was a hard-headed
▶ 1:53:54fiscal conservative uh said he got goosebumps by that testimony and it's what convinced him to fund the uh public broadcast you've said you wouldn't have funded it do you think Senator Pastor made a mistake back then oh yeah absolutely I think I agree with Fred friendley who testified and said you have just you would have voted against I would have vot yes I don't think that you should have state broadcasters now what is the cost of public broadcasting as a percent of the federal budget I don't know but it is
▶ 1:54:24a I mean come on you're talking about the $36 trillion of debt debt that we have you're saying this is a really important uh thing that we need to cut you you didn't research out what percent it's important principle and it you said you the principes is a different thing you're saying this is a effective strategy to cut debt and you have no idea what it was 5% of the discretionary Cuts in the GOP it's 0.1% right but it was 5% of the discretionary Cuts in in the 17 budget point 0 1% the federal budget that's one of the reasons
▶ 1:54:54Senator Pastor said you know it's worth it in an investment in American kids now you said Sesame Street is a private organization or Sesame Street is going private I didn't understand that because Sesame Workshop is a nonprofit what did you mean by private well I mean it's a it's a nonprofit it's it's it's separate from but it gets Public Funding what did did you were you talking about the HBO thing yes do you realize that HBO just canceled with them and I I do yes the reason they cancel them and I'm trying to explain
▶ 1:55:24why Senator Pastor fund did this and if you talk to families who watch Daniel Tiger maybe you appreciate it the reason they canceled it is because it wasn't making a profit see because when you try to do Daniel Tiger or Sesame Street and you try to do what Mr Rogers was talking about helping the emotional and Social Development of kids it's not easy you got to hire people who are child psychologists you have to hire people who are educationalist a lot goes into this and HBO said
▶ 1:55:54you know what it's not making money we rather put on things that are uh geared towards adults or that are going to be conflicts we we aren't making money on this and the whole reason the whole reason Senator Pastor said that we're going to fund this I know you kind of mocked in your testimony the kids but the whole reason was that when you make programming for children to help their social and E and emotional development it costs so much money to do
▶ 1:56:24and it's a public good that not everything has to be about profit do you have any idea what it takes to produce Daniel Tiger who all they hire did you ever try to figure it out no but I can tell you that the market said that it wasn't there there wasn't enough demand for it and that's the reason why HBO got rid of it because it wasn't enough demand yeah so are you that's exactly the the right Point are you saying that everything in American society needs to be driven by the profit motive there is not enough Demand on getting ratings
▶ 1:56:55for things that help the social and economic development of kids but you know what Mr Rogers understood what we've forgotten in this country some things are more valuable than money at a time where a country is polarized I wish we had a little more empathy and caring and that's not a partisan issue that's an American issue and I would recommend you reat that testimony from Mr Rogers I hope the whole country would watch it I have watched it and we are 366 trillion doll in De
▶ 1:57:25I now recognize the gentleman from Missouri Mr Burleson for five minutes thank you madam chair um you know I think that it's important to bring this conversation into the context that needs to be said that which is that we are $36 trillion in debt as a nation we're spending 20% of every dollar that comes in from taxpayers just to cover the interest and guess what American people bad news interest rates are going going up so that 20% is going to get worse and
▶ 1:57:55worse we had Ray doio come in and tell Congress that we are entering potentially dark territory there's a number of red flags we're we're at the worst level of debt we're at a worse level of debt than we were after we left the World War II okay we're at that level of debt and we didn't just fight a war we we're facing potential Wars and conflicts we're at that level of debt and we didn't just emerge from a recession or depression if that happens
▶ 1:58:26today you'll see the dollar no longer be the world Reserve currency and and we will be in serious trouble and so that's that is the context that we're in look if there was all the money in the world it's fine to throw money around but we don't have all the money in the world and the question that we have at hand today is is it appropriate to spend taxpayer dollars on things that may not be necessary anymore and so my question Mr Gonzalez at one point in time there was state sponsored speech
▶ 1:58:56directly it was the form of town criers correct so government used to fund people to go out in the street and deliver the news of the day um V vocally at street corners correct okay why don't we do that today well I think it's because we'd have better ways of delivering the news I mean I think you get my point like today there at one point in time there was very limit access to news and there was a there was an appropriate time where potentially we needed to have
▶ 1:59:27state sponsored news but is that is that the way do we need that today uh no we do not and may I quote Thomas Jefferson on this very Point since you bring this up um he said to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disb and abor is sinful and tyrannical this is what I base my opposition to public funding for media yeah and I that's why I think that what in given this context like
▶ 1:59:57let's be real we it was said that we're attacking Free Speech this is paid this is state sponsored speech and the very reason why we have have you know these Witnesses before us today isn't because they're totally being funded or completely being funded we're not bringing in Disney Channel in here right we're not bringing in uh National Geographic right for their content the reason why we're having this conversation is because you're you're we are funding you and
▶ 2:00:27and because we're funding you the taxpayers get to have an opportunity to ask why are we funding some of these this content that they might disagree with right yeah no completely that's completely right in fact I think that PBS and NPR but especially PBS will thrive on the membership model they they keep saying it's such a small percentage where well if it's the the Public Funding if it's such a small percentage then no problem yeah so miss I'm going to ask a very difficult question but if you're in my shoes and you
▶ 2:00:57have to face the fact can we fund Social Security or do we do we spend money on NPR which would you choose Congressman I would argue that in one which if you had to pick if you were forced to make a decision there wasn't enough money to go around Social Security or NP we know how important public media is to our nation seniors sir more important than Social Security I thinker people disagree I think that Miss ker let me ask this would it be more appropriate to fund
▶ 2:01:28PBS or to fund healthare if given limited resources which is where we're at I I recognize the limited resources and I feel that both are important for this country and I think what the American people want to know is when they're sending money their taxpayer dollars and they're funding things like Independent Lens and look I like some of the content on on your stations I love Nova but you know what Nova competes with National Geographic and nature why are we funding
▶ 2:01:59something that competes with these private sector Ines I like Sesame Street but I also know that it's competing directly with Handy Manny Doc McStuffins and Little Einstein right those exist and we're not funding them they're not here having to defend their content but because we are funding it I'm going to ask you why are we funding an episod episodes of real lens Independent Lens about an episode called real boy a trans teen navigates adolescent sobriety and
▶ 2:02:29physical ramifications that's what the American people want to know Social Security our witness we're at time but our witnesses can answer the questions thank you madam chair that was a documentary that was produced for for adults as part of our Prime Time audience and um it was part of a point of view that we share to try to help people understand the wide breadth of experiences of people across the country thank you madam chair
▶ 2:03:00I now recognize the gentlewoman from the District of Colombia Miss Norton for five minutes thank you madam chair I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today I am a strong supporter of public uh public broadcasting and I am a regular listener and watcher of the public broadcasting stations here in DC public broadcasting is a public
▶ 2:03:31good uh we's uh DC's local PBS St station is proudly home to the world's longest running High School quiz uh quiz show for over 60 years the show it's academic has showcased some of the best and brightest high school students in the Capitol
▶ 2:04:01region President Reagan once praised its academic as a quote a reminder of the importance of Education end quote and even Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas made a guest appearance one student who competed on the show said quote it's made me a lot smarter
▶ 2:04:31end quote and quote getting to say that I've been on a TV show is really cool in quote it's am it's academic is just one example of local public media programming that celebrates and lifts a the community Mr Olman uh in your experience as head of the Alaska public media why is it important for
▶ 2:05:02public media to elevate local voices thank you so much for that question there are stories to be told all over this great nation of ours and one of the things that I take the utmost pride in is being someone who can provide the strategy and build the resources and build the capacity to ensure that we can capture video about those uniquely Alaskan stories we can capture audio about those uniquely Alaskan stories
▶ 2:05:32and what we do is we take that opportunity to not only tell those stories for ourselves within our great state but we also work with our national Partners this local National Partnership is essential without PBS without NPR you wouldn't hear stories news stories public affairs stories community stories from Alaska you wouldn't see them on the PBS NewsHour this is vital it's vital for alaskans to know that they're connected to their nation and that
▶ 2:06:02what we do in Alaska matters to our nation thank you again for that question um M Miss ker Miss ker I would love to hear your bigger pure P picture taker on this if PBS stations are suddenly taken off the air what would be lost to communities across country I've spent a good part of my time as the president of PBS traveling and visiting
▶ 2:06:32our stations across the country because I feel for me to do my job well I need to understand what the role of our stations are in communities that means spending time not just with station management but also with people in the community so I've been to all 50 states and the reason that we are here and the reason that we are arguing so passionately for funding recognizing there are very difficult challenges in our in our um uh country right now is that many of
▶ 2:07:02our smaller and actually mediumsized stations would not exist without the federal appropriation and when you look at a station like Cookville Tennessee which serves part of Appalachia 50% of their budget comes from the federal government those are stations that I've seen that have small staffs that do extraordinary work and those those are the stations that I worry would not survive this would be an existential moment for them and that's why I think this is so important the the the
▶ 2:07:33DC area NPR station similarly provides uh Acclaim programming including up to the minute news and local shows exploring the DC cultural scene and sharing stories from all over the city including historically marginalized areas the nation uh the station also produces award-winning journalism such as an investigative feature
▶ 2:08:03on local families coping with sickle cell disease throughout the country more and more local news outlets are closing each day at a rate of more than two per week this has made public radio repor all the more important Miss maah why is it beneficial for journalists to live in the communities they cover we we'll let the witness quickly answer and then we're out of time
▶ 2:08:33thank you so much Madam chair uh we find that enabling public radio to continue to be funded allows for us to meet the needs of people who live in news deserts and having journalists who are from that community means they can prioritize the needs of that Community whether it's Sickle Cell issues in DC see or whether it's the price of sorghum uh in our agricultural Heartland whether it is thinking about the wildfires that we see across the mid across the center and west of our country or whether it is the impact
▶ 2:09:03of storms across the gulf um and Southern parts of our country we recognize local journalists they speak the language they recognize the pronunciations of the places that they come from they come from the community it is of tremendous value to enable that we are for America from Americans and All American Voice are heard the gentle L's time has expired I now recognize the gentleman from Texas Mr Fallon for 5 minutes thank you mam shair Miss Mah do you believe the national that National Public
▶ 2:09:33Radio takes a balanced and fair approach to news politics culture Etc Mr Fallon thank you for the question uh I came into National Public Radio with and I I apologize it's just that we have such a limited time do you believe that to be true I believe that we have work to do always do in order to improve and serve all Americans more accurate than not that you're fair or you're you're either fair or you're unfair so what do you think you are I believe we wake up every day with a desire to be fair and it is part of why you're not claiming that you're fair you have a desire to be fair
▶ 2:10:04okay uh so you would not describe NPR as objective and nonpartisan I would you would okay Mr ker same question for you would you believe the PBS is fair and objective and nonpartisan yes okay thank you thank you for the quick answer too so I I I found it interesting that that cbp's uh recent goal was to promote efforts that ensure fact-based journalism that promotes a symphony of ideological viewpoints you both agree with that goal yes all right wonderful so
▶ 2:10:34um Miss ker in 2023 uh when PBS had a program Washington Week with the Atlantic and when President Biden's mental acuity was questioned one of the reporters claimed that GOP was lying another reporter Jeffrey Goldberg who's been in the news of late described Biden as quote mentally acute were you aware if there were any desending opinions on that program that day I I don't know from that day were they were not uh but fortunately in there was a debate in I believe June
▶ 2:11:04of 2024 where the American people in the world found out just who was lying the Democrats Jeffrey Goldberg and PBS Miss Mah I'm sure you're aware that Hunter Biden had a laptop I am sir yes okay and there were many stories written about said laptop yes sir and in 2020 unfortunately NPR's managing editor for news refused to cover the story and he branded it a quote waste of time not a real story and a distraction and instead unfortunately of NPR investigating they ran a puff piece
▶ 2:11:35that uh LED with experts say attack on Hunter Biden addiction deepens stigma for Millions um it's unfortunate that NPR ignored the hunter Biden laptop story but y all did talk quite a bit about the debunked Russia collusion do you know how many times in NPR interviewed Adam Schiff about Congressman I would love to say that we actually believe we made a mistake on the hunter Biden laptop story and I appreciate that thank you how many times did y all interview Adam Schiff about the Russia collusion uh I'm sorry Sor I don't have that number it was 25
▶ 2:12:05times uh you know how many times uh NPR interviewed chairman of this committee oversight committee Jamie comr about the Biden impeachment inquiry for the hunter Biden tax evasion and elicit business dealings of the Biden family uh I'm sorry sir I don't know I believe that's zero so it's 25 to zero M ker uh you're aware there's a political Spectrum goes all the way from the far right to the far left and everywhere in between would it trouble you to hear that uh for six months there was an analysis done on PBS's newsour from June to November of 2023
▶ 2:12:35where they found that far right was that term was used 162 times and far left was only used six times do you find troubling I I don't know the study that you're referring to and I'd love I'd be very interested in seeing it and understanding how they came up with those numbers media Research Center did a six-month analysis and it's not how do you find it you say far right or it's terms they use the term far right 162 times far left six times that's a 96 to 4% skew you're also aware that
▶ 2:13:05you covered the GOP and Democratic national conventions in 2024 yes we did okay interestingly 72% of the coverage of the GOP convention was negative 88% of the democratic convention was positive shouldn't be surprising when you have anchors like omnna noat who described the Republican rhetoric as quote outright racism and quote echoing white supremacy M mayor NPR you believe your reporters are fair
▶ 2:13:36you they're fair and they're working at it I believe that they work to be every day sir they're non-biased and yet you have the voter registration issue I mean we're all human beings we're all going to see through the world through a certain lens and do you are you aware of any Republicans any registered Republicans in your Newsroom I couldn't say registered but I know we have conservatives in our Newsroom yes okay so the the recent registration uh when it was looked at 87 87 Democrats and zero Republicans registered I found that very concerning
▶ 2:14:07yeah I would not even 40 to 30 or 50 to 20 87 to zero but it shouldn't be surprising when their own CEO says things like I'm so done with late stage capitalism or calls the president of the United States a deranged racist sociopath or that America's addicted to white supremacy so billions have gone into both of your coffers over the last uh several decades and I understand why Democrats on this committee are going to viciously and vehemently defend you all because you become a propaganda wing of the democratic
▶ 2:14:37party 67% of your viewers listeners identify as Democrat with only 12% conservative and you become a Sandbox for leftist propagandist to frolic on taxpayer dime and no more and when you said said in the beginning you're going to promote a symphony of ideological viewpoints yeah you do if you're left leaning left far left or remarkably Marxist St yeld back thank you thank you Mr Fon I now recognize a gentleman from Texas Mr Gil
▶ 2:15:07thank you chairwoman green and I apologize I'm getting over a cold so I'm losing my voice here um Miss Miss Mar I I want to start from with you just generally would you say you generally agree or disagree with the following the history of all hitherto existing Society is the history of class struggles I would not say I agree with that sir that that's good to hear it's interesting because a lot of your thinking as expressed by your public statements is deeply infused with economic and cultural Marxism
▶ 2:15:38do you believe that America is addicted to white supremacy um I believe that I tweeted that and I as I've said earlier I believe much of my thinking has evolved over the last half decade it has evolved why did you twe that I don't recall the exact context sir so I wouldn't be able to say okay do you believe that America believes in Black plunder in white democracy I don't believe that sir you tweeted that in reference to a book you were reading at at the time apparently the case for
▶ 2:16:09reparations I don't think I've ever read that book sir you tweeted about it you said you took a day off to fully read the case for rep reparations you put that on Twitter in January of 2020 I apologies I don't recall that I did okay no I no doubt that your your Tweet there is correct but I don't recall that okay do you believe that white people in inherently feel Superior to other races I do not you don't you you tweeted something to that effect you said I I grew up feeling Superior ha
▶ 2:16:39how wide of me why did you tweet that um I think I was probably reflecting on what it was to be to grow up in an environment where I had lots of advantages it it sounds like you're saying that why people feel Superior I I don't believe that anybody feels that way sir I was just reflecting on my own experiences you think that white people should pay reparations I I've never said that sir um yes you did you said it in January of 2020 you tweeted yes the north yes all of us yes America yes our original
▶ 2:17:09Collective sin and unpaid debt yes reparations yes on this day I don't believe that was a reference to fiscal reparations sir what kind of reparations was it a reference to I think it was just a reference to the idea that we all owe much to the people who came before us that that's a bizarre way to frame what you tweeted um okay how how how many rep how much reparations have you personally paid uh sir I I don't believe that I've ever paid reparations okay just for everybody else I'm not
▶ 2:17:39asking anyone be what you're suggesting do you believe that looting is morally wrong I believe that looting is illegal and I refer to it as counterproductive I think it should be prosecuted you believe it's morally wrong though of of course of course then why did you refer to it as counterproductive it's a very different very different way to describe it it is both morally wrong and counterproductive as well as being you tweeted it's hard to be mad about protests in reference to the BLM Ro protests not prioritizing the private property of a system of
▶ 2:18:09Oppression you didn't condemn the Looting you said that it was counterproductive NPR also uh promoted a book called in defense of looting do you think that that's an appropriate use of tax pair dollars uh I'm unfamiliar with that book sir and I don't believe that was at my time you tweeted that you read that book but I I don't believe that I did read that book sir do you think that uh a few few years ago NPR educated America about quote the whole community of gender queer dinosaur enthusiasts do you think that that's a
▶ 2:18:40an appropriate use of tax dollars I was not an NPR at the time sir that's not the question though do you think that that's an appropriate use of our tax dollars I think our tax dollars that we use are to be able to provide a WI I'll I'll take that as a yes you do believe that that's appropriate your health adviser at NPR also stated in an interview that quote fear of fatness is more harmful than actual fat would you like to explain how fear of fatness is more harmful than actual fat that's directly that's an editorial at NPR I am not familiar with
▶ 2:19:10the editorial and I don't believe that was published during my time here it's called diet culture is everywhere here's how to fight it do you think that that's an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars I think uh any reporting on health isn't an appropriate use doll yes and you and you think that editorializing that fat is not unhealthy is appropriate I don't know that what that article is for and I'm not familiar with it so I could say this fake news um do you think that basic accommodations like doorways or seat belts represent quote latent fat phobia uh
▶ 2:19:40I don't have an opinion that's also from NPR do you think civility is racist no sir no your outlet ran an article entitled quote when civility is used as a c against people of color that was on all things considered would you like to explain I well I'm not on the editorial side so I I'm not familiar with that story you talk about how NPR is news this is this is editorialization and I'll read it for many people of color in the United States civility isn't so much Social lubricant
▶ 2:20:11as it is a vehicle for containing them preventing social mobility in preserving the status quo this is garbage I'll spend all of my time doing every everything I can to ensure you guys never get another dollar of taxpayer funding this is complete garbage thank you madam chair thank you Mr Gil I now recognize the gentleman from Georgia Mr Jack for five minutes well thank you very much Madame chair um I'd like to just start and and build off of something Mr Fallon noted and Mr
▶ 2:20:41uh Miss mayor you I think you noted and just to confirm uh within your statement to him uh that NPR failed to accur accurately report the circumstances around content within Hunter Biden's laptop store is that fair to categorize your statement our current editorial leaderships believes that we made a mistake not reporting the story and more reporting it earlier yes and I recognize you weren't there at the time but what institutes in control uh what what have you done to ensure that never happens again uh a number of things sir and thank
▶ 2:21:11you for the opportunity to speak to them we have hired additional editor core uh core or which we refer to as our editorial review to make sure that all stories before they go out are comprehensive and well reviewed we've instituted a monthly review to ensure that the most challenging stories of every month we go back and we look at what we may have missed in order to not miss issues again and change polies processes and policies to be able to have more robust conversation uh and to ensure all areas and All Views are considered we have hired analysts to be
▶ 2:21:41able to count the number of stories that we're running on any particular issue including whose voices are represented we've moved from bringing pundits on air to trying to bring direct policy makers on air so that we can ask questions of policy makers rather than hearing through other people's perspectives those are just a few of the things we've done so far I've got a couple others a few of time thank you and you can submit those for the record would you suggest then that the the failure to Accurate accurately report those circumstances and the the content around that story would you suggest
▶ 2:22:11today as as I feel and many others feel that that impacted the 2020 election I could not say sir I I don't know well I just I ask because you you have a a broad viewership Broad listenership and I'm just curious if it is so Broad and it is so necessary for us to continue to give taxpayer funds uh as as you all submit um to me uh to Mis accurately report something that's incredibly important around a 2020 election is uh very concerning so welcome another thought from you there
▶ 2:22:42uh I believe that we made a mistake as I said and I believe that we have uh taken that to heart and are focused on how do we report and Report effectively and Timeless in a timely Fashion on all the issues that matter to all Americans I I hear your concern sir and I know I want you to know that we are truly working on this I um I'd like to spend the rest of my time talking about funding and I know that some of my colleagues talked about it a little bit today but could you uh walk us through the amount of money that NPR receives from cpb annually
▶ 2:23:12yes sure sir um we receive 11.2 million this past year the majority of which goes to the public radio satellite system which we operate on behalf of the entire public radio network um of we also received a smaller amount of funding in the course of the past year that went to help us hire those additional editors and analysts uh in order to be able to beef up that editorial review we received funding to support the coverage of the recent election in order to make sure that we are had our journalists all across the country
▶ 2:23:42and were're able to speak to Americans of all different political backgrounds and what percentage of your budget share comes from the federal government uh um depending on how you count it sir it is it's less than 5% and to help me understand too uh the cpb you know as I understand it we've Congress has appropriated $500 million to cpb it flows out and I think smaller radio stations go and apply for grants for it do you receive payment and from smaller radio stations through licensing agreements
▶ 2:24:12and things of that nature we do and the fees for that are are um uh designed around the the amount of funding that they get from private member donations so it's not the fees are not designed around Federal funding they're designed around what sort of direct private support and donations they receive from members and listeners well I noted Mr Jordan today uh suggested that you all are fundraising off this hearing today and and a question that I have then if if you receive less than 5% and over and over today you've said that private
▶ 2:24:43funding helps support the mission and and the the work of NPR could NPR survive without the 5% that we give NPR annually my belief is that the funding is essential to the public radio system and that is the 246 member stations but the 1300 stations Across the Nation so that we're able as a network to serve all Americans with 100% coverage if Federal funding for our Network goes away it means that people in rural parts of America places where they can afford to make private
▶ 2:25:13donations to support their local journalism those will be harmed but sorry if I may the bigger harm as well or the additional harm is that Americans in places that are affluent or do have many media choices will not be able to hear from their fellow Americans that are often under heard bottom line if the 5% went away would NPR still exist well it would be incredibly damaging to the federal to the excuse me to the national public radio system I back
▶ 2:25:43just want to submit to the record turn your microphone on Madam chair I just like to submit to the record this dri I ask unanimous consent to submit to the record um this flash drive containing uh 6 feet worth of documents documenting uh NPR and PBS's political bias without objection so ordered thank you in closing I want to thank our Witnesses once again for their testimony today I nail yield to the ranking
▶ 2:26:13member Lynch for his closing remarks thank you madam chair thank you for having this hearing I want to thank the witnesses for your willingness to testify in closing I I want to follow up on Mr Connor's Point uh I'd point out to my colleagues that there are there are some government functions that are not merely transactions there are there are some undertakings that we as a country engage in what which are not necessarily justified by cash on the barrel uh
▶ 2:26:44at the point of purchase uh everything is not a transaction it's not like selling a car car although that's exactly what the president was doing on the lawn of the white house the other day sometimes a government program is a long-term investment I think that applies to to public broadcasting like when you use public television to teach kids their numbers and and their alphabet because in some households that might be the only source of instruction available more
▶ 2:27:14often it could be an exercise in trust because a lot of our parents out there 88% of parents said they trusted uh PBS Kids or or when you have a a documentary uh given by a historian like Ken Burns and and he he does research and drills down on the letters and and firsthand correspondence of Civil War veterans and families north and south and
▶ 2:27:44and gives us the hard facts of of the Civil War hopefully we are teaching or at least reminding people of the wrongfulness of slavery and the consequences of us from a system of bondage and the horrific price that was paid and perhaps is still being paid everything is not a transaction but but I do believe that some people see it that way I think president Trump and and Elon Musk see things see life often as a series of transactions
▶ 2:28:15uh much of the support we provide to seniors is not a profitable transaction because they're they're older and vulnerable but they have paid for their fair share into Social Security that's why FDR designed it that way some people just wanted the government to promise to pay a pension but but FDR knew that if he had Americans pay into that system that their sense of fairness would cause them to defend that pension
▶ 2:28:45uh and and so they would fight like hell to get what they had coming it it sounds like we might have to test that theory if Elon Musk and Howard luik have their way another another thing we do that is not necessarily profitable in a financial sense is that we care for our veterans it's a promise we made to our sons and daughters in uniform and it's the right thing to do and veterans care and veteran benefits are special because those benefits are owed to every
▶ 2:29:15veteran who lies in a hospital bed in every VA Hospital across the country because the those benefits are for courageous service previously and honorably rendered to our country and so now it's the time for America and Congress to fulfill their obligation as promised that's not a transaction but because of that cost the Trump Administration VA has announced 880,000 layoffs at the VA Trump and Vance also see support for Ukraine as a transaction even though
▶ 2:29:46they've been invaded by Russia and are fighting for their lives and their freedom as we saw a couple of weeks ago for Mr Trump for president Trump and Mr Vance it was a power transaction and as the president insisted zalinski had no cards to play and as Vance pointed out he refused to sufficiently bend the knee and he didn't dress up these examples point out the nature of the presidency throughout our history the president has never been viewed as the haerin chief instead our most successful
▶ 2:30:16presidents have occupied a position of what could be seen as moral lead leadership which might cause some to conclude that America is bankrupt right now but I have hope in the genius of our Constitution that the checks and balances of our government framework must might once again compensate for that shortcoming in the White House it could be that Congress might provide that balance or it it may be the judicial branch that steps into the breach or it might require the ultimate source of power in our system the people
▶ 2:30:46themselves to demand that we fulfill our obligations to all all those most vulnerable in our country wounded veterans seniors children and the poor to whom so much is owed Madam chair I appreciate the the the opportunity here to address this issue uh I would have preferred that we were talking about the security breach that occurred recently but uh perhaps that will be for another day but I thank you for your courage I yield back I now
▶ 2:31:16recognize myself for closing the United States is $36 trillion in debt in fiscal year 2024 the government spent over 1.8 trillion more than it took in and in fiscal year 2025 the interest on our debt is expected to exceed $1 trillion as we continue investigating waste Fraud and Abuse and we can look no further than the Corporation for Public Broadcasting
▶ 2:31:47the lgbtq indoctrination of our children children the systematic racism narrative and the support for censorship being pushed by the heads of NPR and PBS are just several of the many abuses of taxpayer dollars and if you are one of the select few who might support such content you can personally support and fund it with your own money through private donations because the reality is the United
▶ 2:32:17States of America is broke and can't afford it and after all PBS and NPR are already fundraising off of this Committee hearing the American people are closely following along today in this long awaited hearing to hear the case for why Americans hard-earned tax dollars should continue for Public Broadcasting I think from what we have heard here today the American people will not continue to allow such propaganda to be funded
▶ 2:32:47through the federal government with their hard-earned tax dollars The Corporation for Public Broadcasting that we give over half a billion dollars to no longer serves the public it serves a narrow audience of wealthy liberal Elites who are out of touch with everyday Americans not only have the times changed and the American people who once needed these Outlets can now access the news anywhere at any time but
▶ 2:33:18the content that is being put out through these state sponsored Outlets is so radical it is brainwashing the American people and more significantly American children with unamerican anti-am Pro crime fake news the American people do not support their taxpayer dollars going to NPR articles like how is sex determined scientists say it's complicated which discusses how biological sex is
▶ 2:33:48not limited to male or female email or another article about how stories on crime are rif with misinformation and racism or about how birds and trees are racist over a seven-month period the media Research Center discovered the PBS newsour Gave Over 90% of the airtime to the left on gender ideology stories 90% as mentioned earlier PBS was the outlet that featured the child predator drag queen
▶ 2:34:18on the education show for kids ages 3 to 8 years old and to clarify the record because our witness Miss ker lied under oath and said it wasn't featured on PBS this show was aired on PBS on April 1st 2021 and we will take a look at this video right now we're using a TV today because our audio system is having problems let's go ahead and watch this
▶ 2:35:27the hips go swish swish swish the shoulders go Shimmy Shimmy Shimmy that's repulsive that's not what children ages 3 to8 should ever be watching a grown biological man posing as a woman and by the way Miss ker that was Ed on April 1st 2021 and then something happened it wasn't an accident and
▶ 2:35:57it wasn't just for a brief time that it was up it was aired April 1st and then somehow it expired May 24th later later on it was taken down wonder I wonder why wonder why that was down another egregious example includes back in 2010 PBS's Travis Smiley stated that Christians blow up people every single day haven't seen that ever
▶ 2:36:27happened in my life and today if you look on NPR's website there is still zero mention of any negative coverage of any Democrat today and trust us there are more than plenty of examples to pull from how about a member from this committee making fun of the governor of Texas for having a disability and living his life in a wheelchair Miss Mah from headlines to podcasts to documentaries to Children's programming NPR
▶ 2:36:57and PBS have all but abandoned their promise to deliver unbiased nonpartisan and fact-based Reporting the American people have woken up to this nonsense and blatant disregard for truth and truth matters and they will not put up with it any longer contrary to the beliefs of the head of NP Miss Mah truth is not subjective it's actually very important and there are not multiple truths there's just one
▶ 2:37:28for a civilization to exist objective truth must exist it must be embraced it must be protected it is not a distraction and despite many attempts to whitewash it truth will prevail The Corporation for Public Broadcasting is using taxpayer dollars to actively suppress the truth suppress diverse viewpoints and produce some of the most outlandish ludicrous content after listening to what we've heard today we will be
▶ 2:37:58calling for the complete and total defund and dismantling of the Corporation for Broadcasting here's how it works in America every single day every single day private businesses operate on their own without Government funding we believe that you all can hate us on your own dime with that and without objection all members have five legislative
▶ 2:38:29days within which to submit materials and additional written questions for Witnesses which will be forwarded to the witnesses if there is no further Business Without objection the subcommittee stands
▶ 2:40:18e for