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▶ 0:19:32welcome to all of you thank you for staying after votes yep and the subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere will come to order the purpose of this hearing is to discuss the Bureau of International narcotics and law enforcement for the purposes of the subcommittee's reauthorization of J family programming at the state department now I'm going to recognize myself for an opening statement and
▶ 0:20:02once again thank you to the witnesses for uh coming and giving us your time and your expertise always welcome so the Bureau of International narcotics and law enforcement Affairs inl acronis the motto is security through justice but unfortunately for the last four years they have been more interested in security through ideology trading fight against narcotics for seminars to teach pronouns and workshops on gender
▶ 0:20:33diversity I believe that the result of this alien ideology has been damaging to our national security especially in a region which is very close to my heart Central America as some of you know I was the Central American bureau chief for Univision Network during the Civil War in El Salvador I lived in that country for many years until 1992 when they signed a peace treaty Central America don't I I know it has suffered for decades and this was the perfect time to help them
▶ 0:21:03let's go to Guatemala almost 9 million migrants passed through their territory trying to come to the United States in the last four years the Guatemalans needed inl's assistance to tackle that human trafficking and narcotics but unfortunately the Biden Administration refused to work with the attorney Attorney General of that country because apparently she was too conservative they mentioned her her name is Consuelo poras I don't know her but I do know that she is
▶ 0:21:34the head of ministerio which is for us the United States the attorney generals the Attorney General unfortunately the previous administration refused to work with her I believe that if the water allons put her there the Biden's bureaucrats don't have any business in telling her that she was not fit for the job and they attacked her over and over again this is the perfect definition of putting politics and ideology before safety
▶ 0:22:04and respect for our neighbors political views if the Watermelons are conservative well so be it we got to respect it let's talk now about Salvador the country which has been tackling a terrible gang problems for 30 years I was killed I was I mean I was killed yeah I was about to be killed for few in few instances I lift it I know it and uh things were terrible in El Salvador until
▶ 0:22:34president bukel arrived in the picture El Salvador should have been a perfect partner for the inl bureau which Why by the way it says that its mandate is to bring down transnational criminal organizations like MS13 and trawa but instead of training the Salvadorian police forces Law Enforcement Academy taught gender inclusion as one of their main goals
▶ 0:23:04for Salvador I believe I'm sure that at that moment the salvadorians were going to be saying the greenos have gone crazy I am no law enforcement expert but I am fairly confident that getting MS13 to learn how to pronounce correctly pronouns is not going to dissuade them from committing any crimes I am a witness I have spoken to him that bukel wants to work with the United States but instead the Biden Administration cut funds to the Salvadorian
▶ 0:23:35police by 50% why and inl concentrated its budget for El Salvador to give it to ngos that attack his plan with or without us bukel was successful his strategy reduced one to one of the world's highest homicide rates to nearly zero he presented this strategy to inl and they said no we're not going to work with you during the last four years
▶ 0:24:05unfortunately woke ideology has replaced common sense but thank thankfully things have changed under President Trump and we're going to return the Bureau of International narcotics and law enforcement Affairs to its original Mission which is helping our allies fight crime dismantling gangs restoring Law and Order they have a budget of $2 billion a year and I think we owee it to the American taxpayers to commit and reestablish
▶ 0:24:36their mandate finding drugs stopping human trafficking training police forces worldwide with americanmade weapons bought by our allies inl is one of the best tools we have As Americans to create a safer stronger and more prosperous country while helping our neighbors to do the same whether it's in Central America or anywhere in the world I believe that we are still the United States were the point of reference for the rest of the hemisphere
▶ 0:25:06at least when it comes to good governance The Beacon of Hope that there is a political system that respects human dignity thank God we're back on the right side of History I yield back and now I recognize my dear ranking member the gentleman from Texas Mr Castro for any statements he may have uh thank you chair chairwoman good afternoon everyone uh thank you chairwoman for convening this hearing and thank you to our Witnesses for testifying uh this subcommittee's
▶ 0:25:37uh first Hearing in Congress this Congress the topic of this hearing is broadly to discuss the reauthorization of the state Department's Bureau of International narcotics and law enforcement this is certainly important and I look forward to the discussion on this issue but I first need to paint a picture of what's going on right now in just the last few weeks we've witnessed a deeply troubling pattern of executive overreach and undermining of congressional Authority the Administration has attempted to dismantle congressionally established
▶ 0:26:07agencies USA the interamerican foundation and the US African development foundation all without a single hearing from this committee where the Administration has defended its actions the Trump Administration is trying to shut down the US Agency for Global media a move cheered by autocrats and dictator from Havana to Moscow to Beijing to karakas they're trying to do this without this committee the full committee demanding the administration
▶ 0:26:38even explain themselves the committee has given up its role of oversight it has abandoned any oversight of the Trump Administration which is astounding in the history of Congress the committee has abandoned I'm sorry we as a nation because of the Trump Administration have abandoned Brave human rights defenders in Cuba Venezuela Nicaragua and everywhere else in the world as we went back on our our our
▶ 0:27:09on our word and froze programs that support them we left them to get rounded up and put in prison that is what this Administration done the committee has not called secretary Rubio in or any other Administration official to explain these actions that's why I say they have a bad abon any oversight responsibilities Donald Trump has canceled temporary protected status and humanitarian parole for hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans nicaraguans
▶ 0:27:39Haitians and Cubans who have sought refuge in our country as millions of people have over Generations these were people who had status to be here this is after president Trump said that he would only go after criminals massed ice agents are pulling people off the streets in Texas in Florida and in cities across our country and sending them to prisons in El Salvador without any due process at all
▶ 0:28:10president bukele has become a mercenary for prisoners to house prisoners from the United States and I imagine other parts of the world every day we learn of new Horrors and innocent people brutalized by the administration to do this the Trump Administration has used a wartime Authority that alien enemies act and claim that we are being invaded by Venezuela the idea that we're currently at war with Venezuela would be news to most Americans in fact it would be news to almost
▶ 0:28:40all Americans if we're truly at War I certainly I certainly think this committee should be holding a hearing on it unfortunately what we're seeing from the Republican majority is a total surrender of their power as legislators why hasn't this committee demanded testimony from secretary Rubio Pete Morocco and others on all of this we need answers we need accountability and we need this committee to do its job we meet at a time when the United States
▶ 0:29:10is facing serious complex threats abroad and the responses from this Congress and this Administration have too often been silence confusion or theater across the world vital US foreign assistance programs many of them managed through the inl bureau have been cut delayed or outright cancelled we've seen freezes to Police Academy training in Mexico programs designed to disrupt human trafficking and efforts to equip law enforcement agencies across
▶ 0:29:40the globe with the tools to fight money laundering fentanyl production and organized crime these aren't just line items in a budget they're lifelines to communities here and abroad the impacts of those decisions are not abstract they absolutely make Americans less safe when you see more fentanyl entering this country when violent cartels operate with impunity this is part of the reason why these decisions will haunt us in the years
▶ 0:30:11as we turn specifically to the reauthorization of the inl bureau and its programs we must approach reauthorization with Clear Eyes inl has been a critical tool in our foreign policy toolkit but I agree that it must evolve synthetic drugs like fentanyl are not only devastating American families they're destabilizing entire regions scam centers and cyber enal fraud schemes are praying on our most vulnerable citizens inl must be equipped and reoriented to tackle these
▶ 0:30:41challenges at the same time we must resist the impulse to think that security means police alone sustainable progress requires more than just training and equipping Security Forces it means building robust Justice systems effective prosecutors professional strong defense attorneys independent courts prisons and invest investing in the Civil Society actors who hold their leaders accountable funding police while defunding anti-corruption and rule of law programs
▶ 0:31:12is not just shortsighted it's dangerous and it's counterproductive today's hearing is an opportunity to begin a serious hopefully sober conversation about what inl needs to succeed and what reforms we need to pursue to ensure its work aligns with with our values advances our interests and keeps our community safe thank you chairwoman and I yield thanks thank you Mr Castro thank you for your
▶ 0:31:42statement and now we are pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today on this important topic let me introduce Mrs Chelsea Chelsa Kenny she's the director International Affairs and trade for the United States government accountability office thank you and welcome Mr Andres Martinez Fernandez senior policy analyst Latin America Allison Center for National Security at the Heritage Foundation and Mr Adam isacon director for defense oversight
▶ 0:32:13Washington office on Latin America and this committee recognizes the importance of the issues before us and is grateful to have you here to speak to us today your full statements will be made part of the record and I'll ask ask each of you to keep your spoken remarks to five minutes in order to allow time for members questions now I recognize Miss Kenny for her opening statement chairwoman Salazar ranking member Castro and members of the
▶ 0:32:43subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to discuss our findings and recommendations related to the Bureau of International narcotics and law enforcement Affairs inl contributes to some of the US government's top security priorities these include combating the flow of elicit narcotics into the US promoting rule of law around the world and combating transnational crime we have reviewed many of inl's programs in recent years and identified successes as well as opportunities for improvement and at least 15 reports many
▶ 0:33:13at the request of this committee since 2020 we have made 16 recommendations to improve the effectiveness of inl programs I will highlight three key areas of improvement related to Performance Management program monitoring and program evaluation first we've made five recommendations to improve how inl is managing the performance of its projects of these inl has implemented one recommendation on combating Firearms trafficking in Mexico but four related to Firearms trafficking
▶ 0:33:43in the Caribbean and on assistance to Mexico more broadly remain unaddressed Performance Management is meant to ensure that the US government is spending taxpayer dollars effectively and achieving us goals for example since since 2008 the US has provided over $3 billion in assistance to Mexico to address crime and violence and enhance the country's rule of law however in 2023 we reported that inl could not demonstrate that it was achieving its goals because of gaps in its approach to Performance Management
▶ 0:34:14specifically we found that inl had established goals and objectives but had not identified which of its projects were key to achieving them so for example under the goal of preventing transborder crime inl had established a joint objective with Mexico to to disrupt and dismantle narcotics production however while inl implemented and collected data on individual projects it had not linked which of these projects were helping to meet this goal we recommended that inl strengthen its Performance Management approach to determine whether it was achieving its goals in
▶ 0:34:44Mexico considering the importance of the US Mexico relationship and the level of us investment we have identified this to be a priority recommendation for the agency second we have made six recommendations to improve inl's program monitoring of these inl has implemented three but relate but three related to its Wildlife trafficking programs remain unaddressed consistent program monitoring helps assess progress and identify problems that might prevent the bureau from reaching its goals Wildlife
▶ 0:35:15trafficking is a crime that fuels corruption and destabilizes communities in recent years media reports have alleged that Park Rangers trained by us funded entities had committed human rights abuses including sexual assault and murder since 2020 state has taken steps to enhance safeguards to prevent these abuses however we found that inl had not conducted consistent program monitoring to ensure that these us funded enenes reported on the implementation or effectiveness of these safeguards we also found an
▶ 0:35:45alleged incident of sexual abuse by a ranger that inl was unaware of inl agreed with our recommendations including that it clarify reporting requirements for human rights abuses third we've made two recommendations to inl to conduct program evaluations or studies that would determine how well a program is working for example in 2024 we reported that despite years of support for activities to strengthen the security situation in Haiti including specific efforts to improve the capacity of Haiti's National Police inl had no formal
▶ 0:36:15plans to evaluate the effectiveness of its activities we recommended that inl conduct such an evaluation and the bureau agreed inl plays a critical role in achieving US security priorities such as combating transnational crime and supporting rule of law worldwide inl's Effectiveness depends on robust Performance Management program monitoring and program evaluation while inl has made some progress important gaps remain we urge inl to fully Implement our recommendations to help ensure that it is spending taxpayer dollars
▶ 0:36:45effectively and achieving us goals thank you and I'd be pleased to respond to your questions thank you Mrs Kenny and now I recognize Mr Martinez Fernandez for his statement thank you thank you chairwoman Salazar ranking member Castro and members for holding this hearing and inviting me to participate um the Western hemisphere is experiencing a period of surging instability violence and criminality largely driven by
▶ 0:37:15increasingly powerful criminal organizations from hades's collapse at the hands of gangs Newfound Narco violence in a once peaceful Ecuador increasingly deadly drug cartels in Mexico and Colombia and more we are constantly confronted by evidence of a failed status quo for security in our hemisphere these threats do not stay in Latin America instead they drive increasingly deadly and destabilizing consequences to the United States and directly to the American people the absence
▶ 0:37:45of robust and effective security engagement from the United States in Latin America is a key dri of the current state of affairs indeed the collapse of the hemisphere consensus on is due in no small part to decisions on the part of Washington to blunt and curb its security cooperation in the Americas away from the core support from Regional Forces this trend is driven in part by Washington's focus on other foreign conflicts uh
▶ 0:38:15as well as a series of challenges uh that we continue to focus on in other parts of the world however the impact and in atttention uh that this has brought has exas has been exas exasperated um by Mission drift and the watering down of critical institutions like the state Department's International uh narcotics and law enforcement Bureau additionally hemispheric security and stability has suffered from the Biden administration's politicization
▶ 0:38:46of US security engagement and tools in Latin America the so-called expert consensus on Latin America security policy has shifted dramatically ially over the past two decades prompting detrimental changes in the nature and magnitude of US security cooperation vocal leaders and activists have successfully FL framed organized crime in Latin America as primarily being an issue of Economic Development and judicial institutions deemphasizing
▶ 0:39:16in particular the role of enforcement and security forces today at the core of this new conventional wisdom in many circles in Washington and in the region is the increasingly uh poor is increasingly the poorly substantiated claim that confronting Latin America's powerful criminal organization organizations only serve to exacerbate uh exacerbate insecurity and criminality one of the key events that provided support for this view
▶ 0:39:46was the spike in violence in Mexico during the late 2000s following president Felipe kalon's efforts to crack down on the cartels however notably today after over uh after over a decade during which the Mexican government has pulled back from confronting the cartels Mexico's hom homicides rates now exceed the worst years of violence during the Calderon Administration add to that the over 100,000 overdose deaths in the United States due to Fentanyl and other deadly
▶ 0:40:17drugs indeed me Mexico's disastrous hugnot bullet strategy on the cartels showcases the dire consequences of deemphasizing enforce enforement and security forces uh in our security policies in the Western Hemisphere when uh president Andres Manuel Lopez oor full uh um apologies with Mexico the Merida initiative drifted away from its initial focus of providing training equipment and
▶ 0:40:47Operational Support to Mexican security forces and instead shifted support to uh instead us support shifted for reform of the Mexican Judicial System increasingly uh then when President Lopez oor fully abandoned the Merida initiative the new security cooperation framework further deemphasized security forces and the role of enforcement as a core uh aspect of security policy in both Mexico Colombia
▶ 0:41:17and elsewhere the United States failed to push back on Regional leaders abandonment of security cooperation and commitments partic this was particularly egregious under the Biden Administration where we saw the the increase of uh deaths of American people uh reaching 100,000 uh each year due to fentel and Other Drugs uh and yet we did not uh adequately push the administration in Mexico uh to address the security C uh threat
▶ 0:41:48posed by the cartels even worse at times the Biden Administration leaned into its wrong-headed approach uh within the region to uh um ra apologies leaned into this wrong-headed approach uh on organized crime by Regional leaders in the case of Colombia President Biden actively Drew attention away from Colombia's deteriorating security situation by ending the long-standing program of us monitoring of koca
▶ 0:42:18cultivation to confront the de the dire threats posed by organized crime in our hemisphere the US secur US security assistance through inl and other critical agencies should be bolstered and refocused on the core mission of counternarcotics and transnational organized crime failure to do so urgently will bring increasingly deadly consequences for Latin America and for the American people thank you very much thank Mr Martinez Fernandez I now recognize
▶ 0:42:48Mr isacon for his opening statement chairwoman Salasar ranking member Castro thank you so much for holding this hearing and F inviting me State Department's Bureau of inl U manages the largest USA account for security forces in Latin America and the Caribbean though it pays for other things too worldwide it's about a billion a half dollars in our hemisphere it's at least $600 million now for years inl was jokingly known as the drugs and thugs Bureau its success
▶ 0:43:18was measured in hectors eradicated and kilos seized and kingpins arrested that narrow Focus reflects its 1980s era statute and it hasn't really worked you don't have to take my word for it just look at overdo desk look at Street prices meanwhile our understanding of organized crime and how to combat it has evolved yes drugs are still a top Revenue stream for criminal groups but crime groups also make billions from gold mining migrant smuggling extortion and more sometimes with even bigger profits than they're getting from
▶ 0:43:48drugs the drug Market itself has shifted towards synthetics like Fentanyl and meth which don't involve most of Latin America outside Mexico and Mass migration has made the question urgent how can we help people feel safe enough to stay in their own communities this reframes success it's no longer just kilos and hectors it's whether people feel secure it's whether Justice works it's whether officials fear punishment for corruption to its credit inl has shifted it no longer tries to fight crime the way you'd fight
▶ 0:44:18a Guerilla Insurgency while gorillas fight governments organized crime infiltrates them and Hollows them out by bribing threatening co-opting and corrupting that makes it a much harder much more complex fight now in response inl has begun putting more emphasis on the L rule of law and civilian law enforcement rather than just the N funding has increasingly gone to prosecutors judicial institutions police acmy oversight bodies and independent experts and investigators a whole comprehensive security
▶ 0:44:49sector a table with many legs and not just the people wearing uniforms there's a growing realization that real progress is going to take time and it depends on breaking collusion between government and crime that's why efforts like the commission against impunity in Guatemala the C mattered so much brave people made historic anti-corruption gains and inl was there to support them ironically Dearing inl's mission may be the best way to reduce drug supplies in the long term
▶ 0:45:19but that shift also means we need to rethink some obsolete Frameworks like the annual drug certification process as the 2020 Western hemisphere drug policy commission noted it's a relic it hasn't been used to seriously cut Aid since the 1990s and even then a republican majority Congress and a democratic White House scrambled in the late in the late 90s to restore it when security began deteriorating in Colombia so yes inl needs reform woa supports a serious rethink to bring the bureau and its statutes into
▶ 0:45:49the mid 21st century what we don't support is a rushed 90-day review full of abrupt freezes and cuts with no input from Partners around the world many of who have been risking their lives to fight corruption and crime and really depend on their relationship with us the little we've seen of the proposed cut so far is worrying um Aid to police and military agencies looks mostly untouched but support to Civil Society Justice institutions un programs that looks like it's cut by about half the risks turning this that risks turning
▶ 0:46:19inl back into what it once was a little drugs and thugs Bureau and we know where that leads brief dips in violence or drug Supply ized followed by Resurgence it's just a constant game of waca organized crime figures get taken down but organized crime remains strong corrupt officials keep operating with impunity people keep fleeing their homes often coming here I'm not asking to preserve the status quo frankly I can't defend much of it because I can't see it public reporting on inl a has become
▶ 0:46:49vague inconsistent and far less quantitative it's hard to track where the money goes and what it achieves and Reporting requirements if we do real authorize inl have to improve that right now oversight is difficult and it makes the whole program hard to defend when an Administration comes to power questioning its entire value this committee can help first it can urge inl to keep expanding its focus on organized crime corruption and citizen security not just counternarcotics second it can press for much better transparency
▶ 0:47:19third it can insist that any reform effort be thoughtful inclusive and deliberate not a 90-day roll back there's lots of space for bipartisan agreement here I think I look forward to exploring that here and any other time that you'd like in the future thank you again for for organizing this discussion and thank you Mr isacon and now for your testimony I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning and um and I am um delighted
▶ 0:47:49to hear Mr isacon that you believe certain quotes here that inl needs to be modernized needs to be reformed and that maybe they are just following some of the precepts of the 1980s but specifically let I I agree that they are not um that they need to be uh reorganized and there needs to be some revamped but let's go to the last four years do you really believe that talking to the Guatemalans and to
▶ 0:48:19the salvadorians about gender ideology or the pronouns or or how um you can that genders do you really think that talking to them was going to make the United States and themselves safer safer I mean you were going to keep people home so explain how one thing comes to linked to the other I would like to know what percentage of the program actually was about gender and and identity and things like that if it's we don't have that data focused
▶ 0:48:50main focus the Guatemalans were complaining in terms of dollar amounts and of course and in terms of political will willingness and desire to infiltrate these forces with our ideology the American Biden Administration ideology don't you think that it's that it was we did a disservice to them and to us uh if you're fighting human trafficking where most victims are women you need you talking about sex when you're trying traffing how do you I just need to know
▶ 0:49:20you know how much of the programming really did go in that direction instead of like Joint Task Force Alpha in the waterm perfect example they hated a lady by the name of gelas do I know her no I don't but I know that she's the AG of the country so why don't we work with her oh because she's too conservative who are we to say that to the Guatemalans why I don't know if consa poras is no it's quot everything I'm saying is quoted consa poras is detested
▶ 0:49:51oh I think she is DET it was okay well but who are we the Americans to come and say oh Consuelo is not the person that you need to work with she's the AG I've never heard that she was held at arms length because of because she favored free markets or like you know she she was because she conservatives because of significant corruption according to what I saw you know what I'm telling you so please help me understand why the Biden Administration wanted to concentrate its resources when he talks to reforming and securing the V the um
▶ 0:50:21Salvadorian Guatemalan police concentrated on something that had nothing to do with National Security for the United States my impression was that inl and the justice department worked very hard with not with Consuela but with the rest of the um the public Ministry in Guatemala on something called Joint Task Force Alpha which was a big effort to get at the nodes of the network of Migrant smuggling and they've actually taken out a lot of Migrant Smugglers working with the Attorney General's office in Guatemala in the last few years and the Trump Administration is expanding you know this would give
▶ 0:50:51money to the NOS in Guatemala to help the migrants go have a smoother rise do while they were going through Guatemala and getting to Mexico I think that would have been illegal in Guatemala where they actually arrest and Deport more than 20,000 30,000 migrants a year back into Honduras 9 million went through it all right get through let's go to Salvador buelli what do you think what's your what ranking do you give to buelli from one to 10 I would give him uh
▶ 0:51:21I would give him a four perhaps I think he's a brilliant communicator but I do worry about checks and balance communicator what has he done with the country he has put 3% of the male population in prison which Yeah by doing so did eradicate for now a lot of the gangs I you and I agree that if there's one innocent guy in theot I was the first one who told him you got to get him out because we don't want innocent people in jail but the thing is that you know cot is full of people who are full of tattoos that are revealing who they were and what they did you know each drop
▶ 0:51:51meant one murder so do you think he did something right uh if there were if if these people were facing judges um and if their families knew what was going on with them um it would be right but right now almost everybody there is pre-trial and the there's not even dates for most of their trials so yeah they they need a fair Shake I mean it was right I agree with you that everyone needs due process yes sir and that's just not happening right now all right and but what about us working with him and maybe if inl would have done its
▶ 0:52:22job then Buel would have been able to really help we would help him to do a better better job don't you think um talking about diversity and inclusion and pronouns I think one of inl's biggest obstacles actually there is and I actually support it is language that both Republicans and Democrats put in the foreign aid Bill saying that half of Aid I believe it's half to El Salvador is cut until they can certify that the human rights situation is good and is improving um and right now more than 300 people dying in the
▶ 0:52:52jails in the last three years and and widespread allegations of torture it's been hard to certify that what happens to the human rights of the people who were outside being killed by those gang members which is why he got 90% of transparent and internationally observed elections we agree with that oh yeah if I was a shop love the guy so why do we have to hate him who are we to say to this guy don't do it that way I think we're just worried about what it's going to look like in five years but yeah right now if I'm a shopkeeper who had to pay that's don't you think that they should be concerned about what
▶ 0:53:22how what they're going to be looking like five years from now that's their concern not ours where here to help them have a better police force all right do you agree with that right we're certainly here to help them have a better police force but we don't want to be funding abuses in the short term I think that I am um I'm exceeding my time I yield back now I'm going to recognize the ranking member for five minutes thank you thank
▶ 0:53:52you all right uh thank you chairwoman yeah I want to take take up this issue really quickly uh because you know we disagree M on this I don't think there's ever been a bias of the United States um in against conservative leaders and in favor of leftist leaders in fact when you look at the history of the US involvement in Latin America Latin America has often I mean the United States unfortunately in decades past worked to
▶ 0:54:22undermine the leadership of leaders on the left and treated leaders on the right as friends and in fact supported what were some of the most brutal dictatorships like the Pino ruling in and so you know when we think about how we how we provide us assistance how we provide taxpayer money the way we should be thinking about it is
▶ 0:54:53who who is operating consistent with us values and what we stand for so democracy Freedom respect for human rights really regardless of where you are on the political Spectrum whether you're on the left or the right as a leader we ought to support leaders who are pursuing those things and uh so cons Consuelo Bas as I understand had been sanctioned for severe corruption that's why we're not working with her not
▶ 0:55:23because she's got a certain ideology uh you know and and buay also I think it's true I mean he has um has gotten a lot of crime off the streets and has scared a a lot of people especially young men um but so has Xing ping in China um and so you know the if the if the question is well why don't we just let people do what they're going to do okay I get that but
▶ 0:55:53the question for us is are we going to back them up with money to commit human rights abuses and other things that we would never allow for in the United States ourselves now bear in mind in the last few weeks we've seen some disturbing instances of people literally been picked off the street for having ex exercise their first amendment rights by government agents who don't identify themselves who aren't dressed uniform uh and who barely present credentials if at all
▶ 0:56:24those are the kinds of activities that you're used to is seeing in uh countries that violate people's rights uh so just you know with that with that disagreement um let me get into a question really quick Miss Kenny as you know the administration is conducting multiple reviews of foreign assistance programs and I believe those programs have been incredibly disruptive and that the review has not been done in good faith in 2019 the first Trump Administration did something similar on a smaller scale they
▶ 0:56:54unilaterally froze $400 million in foreign assistance funding in Central America for over 14 months at the time I along with other colleagues requested the GAO assess the impacts of that freeze the Jo determined that many programs including State Department inl Bureau programs had been aers adversely affected and based on your experience with the 2019 freeze do you expect adverse effects from the ongoing freeze on many inl programs thank you for that question yes
▶ 0:57:25when we reviewed the in 2019 we found that um there were a number of adverse effects to the state department we found that about 65 or 39% of inl programs actually suffered adverse effects where they had to reduce the GE geographical region in which they were implementing programs they had to reduce the number of beneficiaries who could participate in trainings they had to reduce the quality of programs um and programs that were relied on implementing Partners um suffered even um more consequences
▶ 0:57:55because they had to lay people off and they were unable to pick up those programs um when the funding resumed however that funding was really just a freeze of one-year funding and in a lot of ways those programs were able to continue because of funding that was still available in the pipeline from prior Year's funding uh we haven't had an opportunity to review the funding freeze that is occurring right now but my understanding is that those programs aren't able to access prior your funding as either and so my understanding is that they're not they're not continuing at all we haven't had I'm sorry sure sure no and let thank you for that and let me
▶ 0:58:25ask if follow up really quick will the GAO be willing to conduct a review of the ongoing freeze and con cancellation of hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign assistance programs yes we'd be happy to do that work thank you so much with that I yield back chairwoman thank you ranking member Castro and now give uh the opportunity to representative Lawler from the state of New York thank you chairwoman it's common practice for transnational criminal organizations in South and Central America to sort
▶ 0:58:56precursor chemicals from China uh and synthesize illicit substances like fentanyl these criminal organizations then traffic them into the United States where they have infiltrated far too many communities and led to unimaginable tragedies for a lot of families across our nation 70,000 Americans are dying on an annual basis from fentanyl overdose Mr Martinez Fernandez how do you assess inl's role and stopping
▶ 0:59:26the influx of deadly fentanyl into the United States well clearly uh inl and our the US government is uh not adequately acting either on resources or um or Focus to stop the flow of fentanyl uh as you mentioned over 70,000 just overdose death just from fentol when you add in all all the other illicit drugs 100,000 um and so
▶ 0:59:56I think there's a a very real resource question that has to be uh um addressed uh there's also a partnership and uh um cooperation side to that where our relationship with Mexico particularly over the past uh four years under the Biden Administration cooperation security cooperation uh was was almost non-existent they even offers to support uh Port security to identify uh fental
▶ 1:00:27precursors coming in uh were rejected by The Mexican government uh and the the challenges of migration which uh uh grew out of control under the Biden Administration as well uh led to a uh deprioritization in my opinion of the fental threat uh with dire consequences uh now president Trump is obviously rallied significant resources particularly from the Department of Defense to the Border uh I think that's that's an important aspect of
▶ 1:00:57the confronting this threat but we also need to press the The Mexican government uh to to take action and and there's also certainly the administration is is making progress on that front and bringing to Bear some economic tools uh I think inl is going to have play an important role because at some point we need to restore the security relationship with Mexico uh to a functional uh uh arrangement with uh actually targeting the cartels rather than
▶ 1:01:27just having symbolic uh actions by the Mexican Government um be be the sum total of of the relationship which is essentially what we've seen for the past four years so what can inl do to address China's role uh related to the precursor chemicals that are exported into Mexico and other parts of the Western Hemisphere so I think uh certainly with uh the Chinese presence in Mexico is also significant so that there's action
▶ 1:01:57to go after some of the Brokers uh as well as some of the trade infrastructure which is utilized by the Chinese uh in Mexico to facilitate the uh the flow of elicit precursors uh I think that more action also needs to be done uh in Asia on this front we've seen movement of illicit fenol uh Supply chains even out of China um unfortunately we we don't have a a Cooperative relationship uh
▶ 1:02:28on this issue with with uh the government in China so uh the the LI there's significant limitations on inl's ability to to act there uh but I think uh ensuring that in Mexico in particular uh we are we're confronting the the presence of Chinese criminal organizations uh as well as further south we've already seen in countries like Guatemala the movement of these elicit Supply chains of fenel uh uh um to to new new countries
▶ 1:02:58and we need to make sure that we're we're reinforcing uh border security Port security uh and those security relationships uh to make sure that it doesn't just migrate uh to to another country what uh in what way is the inl working with other entities within the US government like the DEA uh on this particular issue and and how better how how can they improve upon that
▶ 1:03:28uh to really crack down on this obviously we have a demand issue in this country uh that is that is part of the the problem uh of the deadly flow of fentanyl yeah uh so I think there there is uh some important cooperation with other agency particularly the uh Department ofand Security uh on the issue of of border security within the region and and um uh in that Regional Partners can have those
▶ 1:03:59uh those capacities to ensure that those flows don't move through their country without their ability to to intercept them uh and on on the US side and and the demand side as that you refer to I think uh there uh as I understand it there's some uh conversations Happening Here in Congress about uh um potential changes as far as consequences judicial consequences in the United States uh where uh that are going to align I think the the reality of the threats
▶ 1:04:29and the deadliness of of this uh this drug uh with with the consequences that people face thank you representative Lawler and now I give the word to representative Stanton of the State of Arizona you have five thank you very much minutes thank you very much Madam chair the fentanyl crisis is especially in my home state of Arizona where thousands of arizonans die from opioid
▶ 1:04:59overdose every single year I know my colleagues and I across the aisle agree we need to do more to stop the flow of Fentanyl and other deadly narcotics into the United States of America that's why I'm at a loss to understand why the Trump Administration has moved to cut funding for the state Department's Bureau of International narcotics and law enforcement Affairs work in Mexico drastic cuts inl Works across law enforcement agencies intergovermental intergovernmental agencies
▶ 1:05:30and with the courts in our partner countries to disrupt the illicit drug trafficking and bring criminals to justice under previous administrations and with funding approved and a bipartisan manner Mexico has been the third largest recipient of inl funds inl supports more than a 100 projects working to combat fentanyl trafficking and transnational crime by providing Services training and much needed equipment one project that has benefited from inl uh from the inl
▶ 1:06:00has deployed cargo scanners and drug testing equipment to Mexico's Port of Manzano uh critical technology to detect and interdict precursor chemicals from the People's Republic of China another inl project supported a recent operation in Tucson Arizona that led to the arrest of drug trafficking leader and six other operatives a good return on taxpayer investment since the Trump administration's freeze on foreign a only 15% of inl's programs in Mexico
▶ 1:06:30have received waivers to resume res resume their work and many of those have not yet received payment as former Ambassador Marine helicopter pilot John fely phrased it recently quote they shot the Golden Goose right in the leg unquote make no mistake about it Trump Administration is hamstringing our response to fentanyl in the region and while the while using this crisis as a justification to raise taxes on Working through the misguided across the board tariffs on Mexico Mr Isaacson
▶ 1:07:01uh how does this massive cut to inl program hamper our ability to stem the flow of fentanyl into the United States it definitely deals a blow to our efforts against fentanyl F this is the hardest drug challenge we've ever faced All Pure fenan that's consumed in the United States in the year can fit in the beds of two or three pickup trucks spread out across a 2,000 mile border unfortunately about two-thirds of it coming right to your state right now um you know in order to fight this it's not just a matter of scanners at the border you need cooperation from Mexico on everything
▶ 1:07:31you named investigators prosecutors ports intelligence all capital letters and you cut that off in 90 days and then maybe restart it uh you have to restart everything all over again it's incredibly disruptive I appreciate that now I have in my time in public life both here in Congress and formerly as mayor of Phoenix Arizona have been a friend of Mexico making the case that we need to have a stronger economic unit between us United States Mexico Canada and that's how we're going to win this economic battle with China
▶ 1:08:02uh as a result I've been a Critic of the recent judicial reforms in Mexico which I think is going to is a step backwards in terms of promoting us investment in Mexico inl has helped to train Mexican institutions to build and present strong legal cases against organized crime Mexico's forensic labs and prisons are accredited to reach higher standards for forensic testing due to inl support us officials helped to train police investigators in Mexico City reducing violent crime in Mexico City
▶ 1:08:32by 58% in partnership with now president Shane bomb and inl support help Mexico law schools update their curriculums to include Mexico's criminal law uh reform these offices that trained police and prosecutors and relied on inl funds are now cut drastically by the dismantling of foreign assistant so another question from Mr Isaacson you hosted a podcast last October about Mexico's constitutional reforms where you open by saying quote promises to be serious setbacks in the struggle to hold powerful people
▶ 1:09:02and institutions accountable for corruption how do Mexico's constitutional changes including reorganization of National Guard adisal reforms concern you maybe you could go on a little bit for those who haven't listened to your podcast go on a little bit more about the threat of the Constitutional reforms sure and I hope you call in my colleague who runs our Mexico program Stephanie Brewer who really knows this stuff but Mexico they just changed their Judiciary so that judges are now popularly elected like people are going to come and vote for a long list of judges a justice system especially when they're working on these very
▶ 1:09:32complicated very dangerous cases against these networks of corruption and powerful people who are willing to kill them need to be free of political pressures and need to be free need to be autonomous and this just dealt a strong blow to that as well substituting police and detectives and people who are in the community with National Guard troops who rotate in and out that also makes it harder to actually you can find crime when they're happening but you can't really get to the root of who is behind them thank you very much Madam chair I back thank you
▶ 1:10:03I now recognize um representative shrie of the State of Arizona representative shrieve uh Madame chairwoman is from the state of Indiana and is happy to be here uh sorry state of Indiana I'm sorry uh even Dow great no Indiana is one of Adam chair we agree uh I thank the witnesses for being here uh uh
▶ 1:10:33and I uh a a question that In fairness I'll address to uh Miss Kenny because I wasn't in the room to hear the uh the the testimony from our other Witnesses but I appreciate all of you uh sharing uh time and expertise with us um of course uh inl defines its core mission is keeping America safe by countering crime illegal drugs and instability abroad uh we recognize
▶ 1:11:04that America's vulner is vulnerable to external threats certainly including narcotics uh we recognize that on both sides uh of the aisle uh in my view the Trump Administration is demonstrably making uh Headway uh and securing our border and uh C curbing some of the trafficking that was making its way up I65 and across I70 in Indiana particularly on the fentanyl trafficking we are seeing Headway palpably within
▶ 1:11:34the the district that I represent um the the most pressing drug related threats uh uh in my part of the country uh would stem from the trafficking efforts of the cartel and the uh heisco cartel these uh organizations on I am informed in part by some of the county sheriffs that I represent dominate the wholesale supply of illicit opioids
▶ 1:12:05particularly Fentanyl and heroin in in through my district the crisis is personal to me I've I've I have friends and constituents who have lost loved ones to uh uh fentanyl uh poisoning and this must continue to be a part bipartisan priority and uh Mr Stanton uh had to step out but I do think that this is a bipartisan priority um since 2008
▶ 1:12:35inl has overseen some three billion in funding for security Counter Narcotics uh and rule of law programs in Mexico and Mr Ison you talked about the abrupt uh uh uh curtailing of some of that um there were a few GAO reports of late uh highlighting gaps in inl's metrics in monitoring raising
▶ 1:13:05concerns about the effectiveness of these programs uh certainly the administration is attuned to those the GAO report concluded without fully addressing the key elements for assessing progress the US government cannot be assured that it is achieving its security goals in Mexico and that its Investments at over 3 billion since 2008 are being spent effectively so I I I'll direct my my question to the the witness uh that I heard from in her
▶ 1:13:36testimony though invite anyone else that may have expertise uh to respond Miss Kenny what lessons should inl pull from takeway from the GAO evaluation of its programs in Mexico that can be used to inform our future initiatives our future investment in this cause thank you for this question we reviewed uh the effectiveness the results of the Merida initiative in the bicentennial
▶ 1:14:06framework we did our work sort of at a time period that straddled both of these strategies and we looked to see what were the results of the $3 billion do plus investment um that the US had made in Mexico and what we found is that there were key elements of inl's Performance Management approach if you will that limited our ability to really valuate its Effectiveness so in these strategies both Merida and the framework the bicentennial framework we found that they had established those top level goals and objectives um and that they had a number
▶ 1:14:36of individual projects and activities that address things like counternarcotics flows fitel flows and they have and they're tracking data on the implementation of all of these activities they had not identified which of these activities were critical which were the ones that were really critical to being able to assess the effectiveness of these Topline goals they just hadn't identified the indicators and then monitored to align them to to be able to say this Suite of activities is going to demonstrate our progress and achieving this goal when we talked to the state department about what were
▶ 1:15:06the challenges and being able to complete this because this went back to the Merida initiative which started in 2008 they said that they um that the US government was working with the Mexican Government to come up with some shared set of indicators um these strategies are designed to be sort of shared approaches both for the US and Mexican government to be able to address these shared issues shared challenges and that there were some challenges in being able to to to develop a common set of indicators and some of the complicating factors were at the time you know new administrations both in in Mexico and the
▶ 1:15:36United States however we would point out that given the level of investment and given the continuity of these challenges it's really important that the state department figure out what these indicators are figure out what these Suite of activities should be to be able to support those um Topline goals and be able to measure and and and share the effectiveness of those efforts going forward so that is really our recommendation our recommendation should we identified as a priority recommendation for the state department um of all of the recommendations that we make we believe this is one of the most critical ones to be able to
▶ 1:16:07really uh make progress on uh the individual activities and efforts to be able to address this critical issue between us Mexico Miss Kenny I I appreciate very much in my time is expired Madam chair I yield back thank you representative Shri of the state of Indiana I appreciate your time with us and now I'm going to um recognize representative Jackson of the state of Illinois for
▶ 1:16:39minutes thank you representative salar um thank you ranking member Columbia is the regional leader and coordinating the multinational operation campaign orian a naval Campa aign focused on dismantling the transnational network of drug trafficking and related crimes during the 13th edition of the oron naval campaign last year operations in which 125
▶ 1:17:09institutions and 62 countries from Africa the Americas Asia Europe and for the first time oana participated participating forces seized more than 400 tons of drugs thanks to the the exchange of intelligence and the culmination of capabilities to counter the illicit trafficking of drugs and other illegal activities linked to Narco trafficking I must say that was a very diverse
▶ 1:17:40Network it had uh a high level of Intelligence being interchanged and they had shared interest they had Equity amongst all participants Dei does work I don't know where we get off on this uh tangent that makes no sense to me on diversity is bad diversity and Equity is in quite a few constitutions around the world we're going through a temporary period of some Insanity
▶ 1:18:10to act as if e pluris Unum uh out of many we are one in the Americas I'm I like to let it be for the record the two-thirds of our Hemisphere and population is not in the United States and we are one contiguous Mass the operations reach record figures and narcotics seized reducing the supply worldwide and dealing significant blows to the finances of multi crime organizations preventing them from receiving more than 18.7
▶ 1:18:41billion doar according to the Colombian military forces authorities sees a total of 42 tons of solid chemical precursors and 1.6 million lers of liquid chemical precursors and destroyed 302 illegal infrastructures used for the extraction and processing of drugs the Colombian Navy reported 112 boats seized and 211 vehicles and on and on since this program started about 7 years ago
▶ 1:19:12with only Narco trafficking the orian 12 have included other crimes that are present in the maritime land domain as well such as arms and migrant smuggling uh trafficking money laundering and the like the 13 edition of the orian naval campaigns have Consolidated it as the most important and influential International cooperation strategy in the global fight against Narco trafficking and has also manage to transcend in time
▶ 1:19:42thanks to Innovation and Rapid adaptation to respond to this highly complex and changing phenomenon once again I want to thank each of you for coming and this question will go to you uh Mr Isaacson and thank than you for your outstanding service as well what is the impact of Aid Cuts in this program such as orian campaigns well the main impact has been that the Colombian national police and its part of the the effort to interdict cocaine has had some real disruptions even many of their Blackhawk
▶ 1:20:12helicopters were grounded for a while because they didn't have money for maintenance uh or fuel um trainings have been disrupted and you know just the the the intelligence that you need in order to maintain this this level of predictions has been disrupted I don't know for how long because I just don't have the information for how long it's been cut off and whether decisions have been made to give waivers and if so is that going to mean a few blank months this year where they the the the level of interdiction dips which has been at record levels um or or whether they're going to be able to recover that but we'll find out
▶ 1:20:42soon so do you think that the money that might have been saved theoretically will come back to be a a penny saved and uh and a dollar foolish um I I think so because it's just it's not good government practice to stop all of your programs for 90 days and then just selectively restart them um your your partners just don't work like that and it may cost them months and months if not a couple of years to really recover from that even if they do get
▶ 1:21:13to keep the level of funding they had before well thanks so much so you're saying the Whiplash the backlash the ftic the hectic pace uh this capitulation this erratic Behavior is bad for our long-term goal of reducing the drug trafficking in our region it was definitely good for the organized crime groups who wanted to evade the police and the Navy and others in Colombia I yield back I thank you so much thank you representative Jackson and now I'm going to recognize representative
▶ 1:21:43Titus of the state of Nevada for five minutes thank you madam chairman Mr ranking member um Mr Ison would you go over this for me just again very simply what was the justification given by President Trump for leving tariffs with against Mexico the the main justification was that Mexico wasn't cooperating enough in stopping Fentanyl coming to the United States right and and now that the president is threatening a trade war with Mexico has that
▶ 1:22:13compelled greater cooperation from their authorities on this issue no I guess if Mexico thinks they can stop the tariffs then they will come up with some seizures and they'll bomb some labs and things like that but uh it won't help with things like complex investigations and intelligence now so it really hasn't uh moved that no and if the tariffs happen then what incentive does Mexico have once their economy is cratering uh to keep cooperating yeah and that's part of the problem will they happen will they not on what products how much what percent that sort
▶ 1:22:43of thing well will cuts to the inl programs in Mexico help or hurt our ability to stem the flow of fentanyl into the country yeah I mean I was saying this before you you can't just have better scanners at the border and and hope you've you or bomb a few Labs it cost $60,000 to start a new fento lab you need a lot of the things that inl does which is building intelligence building Port Security Programs K9 courts all this other stuff so that you can stop the whole network that's doing this rather than just try to stop it at a scanner on the border
▶ 1:23:13and if you disrupt inl programs you're disrupting that very very very important ingredient in the fight so it's working counter to what you claim is the purpose of uh the tariffs and other dealings with Mexico threatening your partners um really taking away their incentive to cooperate while you know freezing and restarting and halting and putting waivers and confusing the programs that you are running um is obviously not going to be helpful it's going to be helpful maybe to the people producing fentel so in the meantime
▶ 1:23:43in addition to the tariffs can you talk about the effect of the Trump administration's prioritizing arbitrary Mass deportations over things like root causes of terrorism trans transational crime drug trafficking human trafficking weapons trafficking Etc yeah I mean the Trump Administration is trying to do Mass deportation with the existing people they have right like 5,500 ice enforcement removal officers which means where are they going to get the Manpower they're taking it from DEA they're taking it from doj everything Bureau
▶ 1:24:13of Prisons H HSI human security investigations these are the agencies that are supposed to be working on these drug cases as well as cases everything from child pornography to human trafficking they're all being devoted to rounding up migrants now often even migrants without criminal records and it's a really really disastrous diversion of our our our law enforcement resources so could you sum that up by saying that it's made us less safe not more safe uh yeah I mean if if you I would put it this way if you are a feny
▶ 1:24:44trafficker or a a child pornographer or something like that you are feeling less pressure from federal law enforcement since January 20th because of this diversion of resources because you know they're focused somewhere else and you can get away perhaps they're focusing on migrants and if you're not in the migrant smuggling business you have less to worry about yeah so if we're going to impose tariffs on Mexico that's going to be a tax on families in my district people in Nevada are going to pay more out of pocket if you don't have money in your
▶ 1:25:14pockets you can't go on holiday people won't be coming to Las Vegas for a holiday certainly if you're from Canada or Mexico you're not going to be as likely to to come uh as a tourist and that's our sour main source of Tourism and at the same time what we're doing is undercutting our uh response to the flow of fennel does that pretty much summarize the problem yeah sitation I mean there there's there's we all the the arguments against tariffs are are pretty strong uh economically here at home
▶ 1:25:44but also yeah I mean if you are a Mexican government official who even one who really believes in this fight what's your incentive to cooperate if you're being punished without even any clear benchmarks or guidelines about how to stop the punishment uh and that the same goes for fenel as well as you know working against migrant smuggling through Mexico too you're just what's going to push you to to work harder to do the Americans a favor and and and work harder in you know together on this if you already have a 25% tariff on all of your goods all right well thank you I
▶ 1:26:15back thank you representative Titus and now we have uh we are going to start a second round of questioning not too long and I'm going to recognize myself for five minutes um we all agree that we want to revamp and make inl a better agency we all agree with that and I was I was just I wanted to uh tell my um respected ranking member that what the Trump
▶ 1:26:45Administration is doing is trying to cut waste and on important programs like inl and because I funded hip hop classes in Guatemala I go back to things that they should not be doing we all agree that we have to cooperate with Mexico and that we have to help the Guatemalan police force and El Salvador and by the way one of the things I also wanted to and I want to talk to three of you is I'm not going to just hone in on Mr Ison um uh we we desertified
▶ 1:27:15El Salvador inl desertified El Salvador as a partner which led to the cuts in funds these are the things that I don't understand why because you think that Buel may not be ideologically aligned with the state department me why are you going to do that and the same thing with Guatemala I'm just stating what I think it's it's it's it's common sense right now in Latin America projects that prove to be effective are back on line for instance targeting
▶ 1:27:46systems in Mexico and Peru that provide intelligence or foreign passengers and cargo uh dogs in Costa Rica all right so my question uh to Mrs Kenny since you are an impartial force in this hearing tell me in very simple terms for those people who are at home that do not want to spend taxpayers money in things that are feudal like hip hop classes in Guatemala in which way that $2
▶ 1:28:16billion dollar that we give inl every year where do you think should be spent give it to me in 30 seconds like a good television sound bite so people back at home will say okay inl should be back on track tell me so uh based on our review of the inl programs what we have found is that there are some consistent patterns in terms of implementation um GAO would not identify the policy choices that inl should make but we are happy to talk to you about
▶ 1:28:46the effectiveness of the implementation and what we have found consistently is that there are opportunities to improve performance management ensuring that the activities that you are funding are meeting your strategic goals we saw it in Mexico we saw it in Firearms trafficking we saw it in efforts in the cariban making sure that the specific activities that you're funding are linking up and actually helping you achieve your goal we why do you think that happen so were you telling me basically is that I am going to do this but I'm not sure if it's being effective or not but I'm going to put the money behind it anyway
▶ 1:29:16is that what you're telling me so so why do you think that happened and how can that be changed uh why did it happen well I think our our recommendation is that the state department figure out how to create that alignment that these activities should be funded to the the overall um strategic goals I think in Mexico what we found what we heard is that um there was some uh effort to coordinate with the Mexican Government which is a good idea however we had been funding the Amit
▶ 1:29:46initiative since 2008 and the administrations were going to change so that was something that needed to go that needed to be done I think when we looked at Firearms trafficking and we found similar programs or similar issues we found that everyone would tell us that Firearms trafficking in the Caribbean in the Central America in Mexico that these were important us goals but when we asked about where the metrics were how they were me measuring Effectiveness it didn't show up they weren't me they didn't have firearms trafficking as one of their performance measur so they weren't able to track it and demonstrate progress it didn't show up in their strategies so it's just important that whatever it is you
▶ 1:30:16decide your strategy whatever your goal is you need to be sure that your activities are aligned with it and that you're able to track and line those up to to be sure that you're achieving the goals that you want to achieve sure the state department is listening to you now let me ask you let let me go to let's go to Mexico and maybe we can talk to Mr Fernandez or Mr Ison Mexico is is a very important Ally is it's our next door neighbor we got to work with them because no one is going to move right so we're going to stay where we are and so are they
▶ 1:30:47um I remember that under Amo uh Mexico uh president Trump had a very relationship with President Amo who had a completely different ideology than president Trump and that Amo sent 37,000 troops to the southern borders with Guatemala that worked very well all of a sudden they cooperated so why did that stop and what incentives are we we're giving now uh Shane bomb who comes from that same Morena
▶ 1:31:17party um I I hear that relationships are good between both governments so what can they really do and in which way we could help them do it and do they have the political willingness to receive money from the United States that we know that you know it's like we are neighbors but we are not necessarily love each other but we got to live with each other correct am I am I right in my assessment we start with you Mr fernance what can we do yeah I think it's
▶ 1:31:47it's important to your question about whether they will receive that assistance I I think that goes to the core of the issue uh will they receive the assistance they they've have rejected a significant amount of what have they rejected I think because there are issues with corruption there's issues with nationalism as well uh and I I mean we we tried I think very clearly under the Biden Administration uh to uh to not pressure and and do a
▶ 1:32:17positive engagement uh as um as was alluded to by my call here but obviously didn't result in anything substantive as far as countering the fental threat it only expanded more greatly explain to me simply what happened during those four years once uh why so much fenel was able to come through what did The Mexican government should have done that didn't do and what can they do now under Shan bomb simple what happened
▶ 1:32:47over the past four years is we stopped pressuring them uh and sto pressuring them yeah and and that's what pressures should have economic pressure I think is uh certainly the the most uh potent that we have in the B bilateral relationship with trade and the usmca St right there you see Mr is some so then he that I agree that that tariffs are bad for our constituents I get it but then what other tool do we have as a country to send the message to our neighbors that we need help
▶ 1:33:17because we don't want any more American kids dying prosecutorial cooperation intelligence cooperation from 2023 to 2024 there was a 22% decrease in in in fenel seizures at the border so far this year it's down another 23% less seems to be being produced in Mexico I think because of better cooperation this may be premature but there's and no one's clearing no one's declaring Victory but there has actually been progress in the last two years that's very little very little progress we had 100,000 kids dying every year and and and and deaths
▶ 1:33:48thank goodness are down about 30% the concussion and the chemicals are put together in Mexico yeah I agree right and we just passed legislation that the Congress voted for where we are giving money so we can destroy those precursors before they get composed into the little pill and our kids die so I'm saying what I'm trying to look is political do we have political willingness Shane bomb does she have political willingness to really work with us we want to work with her I think shine bomb does I'd be worried about people
▶ 1:34:18in at the state level in Mexico I'd be worried about corrupt military and police people for her own she has her own swamp yeah she does have a swamp that she has to clean up as do their as does their judicial system andl can help all right thank you yield back now I recognize ranking member Castro from the wonderful state of Texas for five minutes
▶ 1:34:49there you go got it all right all right um with respect to effective and serious and thoughtful cutting of waste Fraud and Abuse in government uh I don't think it's going to be carried out by this Doge committee that is being led with by folks who have absolutely no expertise in this area uh by 22 year olds and 20
▶ 1:35:19year olds with the nickname of Big Balls they're not going to accompl what we're trying to accomplish here uh they have no background in any of this um hardly any life experience quite honestly uh and more than that they're keeping all of their work secretive um in fact Elon Musk as I recall threatened the press that he would file suit or said that it was illegal if they just identified who these people were that are making these massive decisions about how our
▶ 1:35:50operates and that's not fair to the American people people it's not fair to American taxpayers to have a secret group in charge of what's going on in government that won't show its face at the United States capital and even more than that a majority party in Congress that isn't even asking them to show up isn't even demanding that they show up and account for the work that they're doing that's where we are right
▶ 1:36:21now I hope that every everybody in the full Committee of this Das when we have our full committee meetings will join me and others in asking Elon Musk and those responsible for cuts to inl cuts at the state department usaid to come here and present to us their work I mean we can't even get a clear answer of what percent of inl for example is being cut and that applies to other agencies and bureaus as
▶ 1:36:51well so why doesn't this full committee asked Elon Musk to come and sit in these chairs as our three Witnesses have today and explain the cuts that have been made and why they've made the one person that we had come as I recall Pete Morocco uh who job title is now changed he came and I don't know who insisted I don't know if the committee insisted or he and his people insisted that it not be a public hearing that it be a closed
▶ 1:37:21door private briefing and instead of having five minutes ask questions we had like two or three minutes asked questions just bizarre this is the United States government and we're running our country right now the country is being run uh like these countries that we've been critiquing for decades and decades by people who are doing secretive things not uh and so uh I look I agree that you know that's why you have a GAO
▶ 1:37:52that's why you have inspector general you know and could we do more than that yeah I think that we could do more than that I think we should do more than that and we do need to make adjustments because things do get stale and you know and need to change and Maria you and I I was your Democratic co-lead on that fenol bill on precursors uh I thought that was a good piece of legislation and but you know remember I've been presented now I think at least twice where we've been
▶ 1:38:22told in this committee and then in my other committee uh in unclassified information that uh you know 70 to 90% of the precursors or the original The Source material for fentanyl comes to the United States first and then goes over to Mexico and then ends up coming back so these are serious problems but they demand serious approaches and they demand people with expertise who actually know what they're doing you know really nothing against
▶ 1:38:52people in their early 20s I wish I was still in my early 20s but you the people that have been put in charge of overseeing this have absolutely no background or no expertise to do it with that I yield chairwoman thank you ranking member and I thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the members for their questions the members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for the witnesses and we will ask you to respond to these in writing
▶ 1:39:22pursuant to committee rules all members may have 5 days to submit statements questions and other materials for the record subject to the length limitations without objections this committee stands adjourned and once again thank you for
▶ 1:41:52e e