▶ 0:49:18Thank you. The hearing will now uh come to order. I ask that unanimous consent that the chair be authorized to declare recess at any time without objection. So we're want to welcome everyone here to this hearing on military personnel subcommittee. Today's hearing is on the military food programs and the duty to feed our service members. I want to thank our witnesses for being with us today and I hope this hearing provides the opportunity for members of the subcommittee to have a productive discussion with our witnesses.
▶ 0:49:45So, let's be clear, our men and women in uniform put everything on the line for this country. They endure the tough conditions and constant demands of military life. Access to nutritious, highquality meals should be a given, not a challenge or a quoteunquote nice to have, especially when money is deducted from junior enlisted members paychecks to pay for it.
▶ 0:50:08We f my myself and the Rick member when we had our meeting were was talking our initial meeting was we were talking about agreeing on the fact that we want to focus on quality of life issues and this being one of them. Yet, uh, we continue to hear reports about poor food quality, inconsistent operating hours, and logistical failures that leave too many of our service members without reliable meal options, and that's clearly unacceptable. I hope we'd all agree on that. Even more concerning, fewer than one in three service members regularly use on base facilities.
▶ 0:50:38A take rate that low signals a serious disparity between what's being provided and what's actually working for the force. The services have a responsibility to provide accessible meals that meet the nutritional needs of our service members. However, a lack of tracking and proper oversight of food programs has led to wildly inconsistent standards across military installations. Some bases have top-notch dining facilities, while others struggle to serve safely cooked food.
▶ 0:51:08According to uh a rand study, 25% of service members in living in the barracks report food to be uh food insecure. Think about that for a minute. That's just not bad for morale. It's bad for readiness and frankly embarrassing and unacceptable for the United States of America. Today we will hear directly from leaders responsible for overseeing military food programs.
▶ 0:51:34I want to know what's broken, why it's broken, and more importantly, how do we fix it, and fix it uh quickly. This isn't about politics. It's about doing the right thing for and by the people who defend this nation. I look forward to the discussion and working with my colleagues to ensure that every service member, regardless of rank, duty, station, or shift, has access to the quality meals that they need and that they deserve.
▶ 0:52:02Before our before hearing from our witnesses, let me offer ranking member Hulahan an opportunity to make some opening remarks. Thank you and thank you all very much for coming. Thank you, Mr. Fallon, for hosting this hearing on such an important quality of life issue for our service members, the access to quality and nutritious food. I believe that this hearing serves as a continuation of much of the good work that we started in the last Congress.
▶ 0:52:28The bipartisan House Armed Services quality of life report highlighted food insecurity as a challenge resulting from poor compensation of service members, particularly those who are most junior. And as a result, we included a historic pay raise for junior enlisted in the last NDAA, and I look forward to taking on the challenge of improving food quality and access across military installations in this NDAA. uh you know that we all are in agreement when we're both quoting the same source of information.
▶ 0:52:58In January of 2023, Congress uh at Congress's request, the Rand National Defense Research Institute did publish a study on food insecurity amongst members of the armed forces and their dependent, which included a variety of fi findings, but amongst them that 25% of all active duty personnel would be classified by the USDA as having low food security. And in addition, that report highlighted that the food insecurity was higher amongst those who lived on post.
▶ 0:53:28Since then, a series of news reports have further exposed concerning trends across the services food programs. Whether it's the quality of the food being served or the quantity of options available during meal hours or both are variables that challenge service members and their access to food and nutritious food as well. So this is of course also compounded by the fact that service members may find chow halls closed or kiosk shelves empty when they finally have the chance to eat given their very varied work schedules.
▶ 0:53:58Nearly all service members receive a monthly payment which is designed to defay their personal food cost. It's known as the basic allowance substance subsistence or bas and this allowance is provided at a flat rate.
▶ 0:54:12However, the funding mechanisms that support on installation food programs have recently come under increased scrutiny after questions were raised regarding how the services actually spend their basic allowance for subsistence that is withheld from soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen, and guardians. It's also unclear whether the services consistently and accurately account for those costs of food programs, which also calls into question if and how the services are measuring their own effectiveness.
▶ 0:54:42to the points of oversight and effectiveness. Last year, the Government Accountability Office uh released a report where it made over a dozen recommendations for the Department of Defense and military services to increase their oversight and evaluation of nutritional efforts in support of service members. And unfortunately, I must report that nearly a year after its release, all of the recommendations all of the recommendations remain open, which means that they have not yet been addressed.
▶ 0:55:11And that's why I'm very interested in hearing from our witnesses. How are we modernizing food options? How are we improving access to quality of food and what additional legislative authorities you might need from us to be able to make improvements to the food security of service members? Mr. Chairman, I am confident that we will and can work together to make sure that the services turn the tide and increase the quality and quantity of food options.
▶ 0:55:37Thank you so much again to the witnesses here for being here today and I yield my time. Uh thank you Rember. I would like to welcome our witnesses. Lieutenant General Christopher uh Mohan, Deputy Commanding General for Army Material Command. Vice Admiral Scott Gray, Commander of Navy Installation Command. Mr.
▶ 0:55:57Horus HL Larry, uh, Director of Services for Air Force Manpower Personnel and Services, Major General Jason Woodworth, Commander for Marine Corps Installations Command. Each witness will have the opportunity to present his or her testimony, and each member will have an opportunity to question witnesses for two minutes. We respectfully ask the witnesses to summarize their testimony in five minutes or less. Your written comments and statements will be made part of the hearing record.
▶ 0:56:27With that, Lieutenant General Mohan, General, you may make your opening statement. Chairman Fallon, Ranking Member Hulahan, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Army food program. We appreciate this subcommittee's shared concern for our soldiers welfare. I acknowledge the challenges in our dining facilities that have made headlines and more recently the articles in the Army's management of food entitlements. Senior commanders are responsible for execution of their food programs at the tactical level on our installations.
▶ 0:56:57And as the army's senior sustainer, it is my responsibility to provide them the capabilities, resources, and support they need to be successful. And I've recognize that we have not moved fast enough to make improvements. However, I assure you the Army is not spending money collected from soldiers entitlements elsewhere. The army pays about $1.9 billion to enlisted soldiers in basic allowance for subsistence or BAS each year.
▶ 0:57:25We then collect 400 million back from soldiers on meal the soldiers that are on meal cards. So we then only request $1.5 billion which relying on that 400 to pay the annual total BAS requirement. We budget a completely separate pot of money subsistence in kind to purchase and prepare food in our dining facilities. All in. We spend nearly $3.9 billion each year to feed soldiers around the world. We must innovate and drive revolutionary change.
▶ 0:57:53So 18th months 18 months ago, we stood up the Army Food Service Board of Directors, which which reports to me the board has worked together, surveying soldiers across the Army, implementing the multiple efforts to expand our options right now, including kiosk, additional mobile food trucks, graband go, and meal prep programs. But looking to the future, the revolutionary change that our soldiers want and deserve requires us to totally rethink our strategy, which brings us to our campus style dining pilot program.
▶ 0:58:21I appreciate Congress's support in the FY25 NDAA that directed us to execute this pilot, which enables a contracted commercial vendor to transform traditional dining facilities into college campus style experiences. Our pilot will leverage this industry expertise and and incentivize a contractor to operate a facility where our soldiers actually want to dine. Our ultimate goal is making our dining facilities the venue of choice for our soldiers so they can be the world's most lethal fighting force.
▶ 0:58:51Thank you and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, General Emerald Gray. You're now recognized. The Davidson window predicts war with China as early as 2027. We must think, act, and operate differently to ensure we are ready to fight and win in a mere 722 days. Our shore installations are warfighting platforms and the wellspring from which all our war fighting readiness emanates.
▶ 0:59:15At the same time, the Navy's degraded facilities and infrastructure undermine our ability to deliver combat ready forces and ensure the well-being of our sailors and families. Over recent years, the Navy has lost an estimated $200 million in buying power in their boss accounts alone. And this year we took an additional $ 105 million in cuts which further hobbles our ability to make real change. We got to do better. Our key war fighting advantage is our people. The Navy has a covenant with our sailors.
▶ 0:59:44They dedicate themselves to serve and with all the sacrifice that that entails and we commit to take care taking care of them and their families. This covenant fortifies our war fighting spirit and provides us an edge over our adversaries.
▶ 0:59:59In partnership with Congress, Navy leadership has made meaningful improvements in compensation, housing, medical care, child care, improved conditions in our shipyards, changed policies to better serve our sailors, uh, and made critical investments to improve quality of life and access to healthier food options.
▶ 1:00:16We are now broadening our efforts to enhance food quality and are fully committed to improving sailor nutrition across our over 80 ashore and 268 a float galls which serve over 48 million meals annually. Every dollar of BAS collected for rations in kind is spent to purchase food. Period. No BAS funds have been misallocated. In fact, the Navy supplements BAS with additional funding to enhance the quality and quantity of food to better fuel the performance of our sailors.
▶ 1:00:47Uh, I am taking action to eliminate potential seams between the Navy's food service stakeholders and I am accelerating our evolving strategy to better attract sailors into our galleys. I share your concern. I asked for Congress's support to protect our boss accounts, for a food transformation line item in the budget, for additional funding to improve our galley facilities, and to consider an increase in BAS entitlement to better facilitate the purchase of more healthy food options for our sailors.
▶ 1:01:15The Davidson window is 722 days away. By honoring our warrior covenant, we will keep faith with our sailors and our families. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Uh, thank you, Admiral. Mr. Larry, you're now recognized. Chairman Fallon, Ranking Member Hulahan, and esteemed members of this committee. I appreciate the opportunity to engage with you today, and I thank you for your ongoing support.
▶ 1:01:41As the Department of the Air Force's witness, I represent both the Air Force and the Space Force. Together, we stand firm in our commitment to delivering and strengthening our food services program. and his con contributions to the readiness, resilience, and morale of our remarkable airmen and guardians.
▶ 1:02:06Our innovative food services program took flight in 2010 with implementation of Air Force food services transformation. This transformation fueled by a tradition of care and support upholds strict accountability and staunch execution as its standard business model.
▶ 1:02:28While this innovative approach has evolved into what is currently known known as food 2.0, our core principles accessibility, quality, nutritional value and cost. These four elements are the cornerstone of our food service operation and the calling card for our airmen and guardians dining experience.
▶ 1:02:53Further, the Department of the Air Force recognizes food services role in building and maintaining strong and capable warriors. These members must possess both the mentality and the staying power to render the lethality our warf fighting commanders are entrusted to deliver for the nation.
▶ 1:03:15As such, every dollar from essential service messaging transaction is used solely for food services. None of these dollars from members paychecks are diverted elsewhere.
▶ 1:03:30As I close, rest assured your department of the Air Force remains alert to its food services program and the critical role it plays in delivering ready and resilient members fully capable of mission accomplishment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and committee members. And I stand by for your questions. Thank you, Mr. Larry.
▶ 1:03:53General Woodworth, you're now Chairman Fallon, Ranking Member Hulahan, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today on behalf of the United States Marine Corps. The Marine Corps stands committed to maintaining the highest standards of readiness and lethality. We are equally dedicated to ensuring that your Marines are provided with nourishment to remain healthy and fit to fight.
▶ 1:04:20Money collected from Marines at mesh halls is used to cover the cost of food and operating expenses of our dining facilities. These deductions are used solely and exclusively for food services and not diverted to other programs. As demonstrated by our past two years audit results, the Marine Corps ensures that every dollar authorized and appropriated by Congress is spent for its intended purpose and is accurately accounted for.
▶ 1:04:48The quality of the meals we provide is essential to ensuring our Marines are physically prepared to meet the demands of the mission. We take great pride in offering meals that are balanced and satisfying. The Marine Corps follows the Department of Defense standards to ensure every meal supports optimal performance over and overall well-being. We aim to provide food that keeps me Marines prepped, focused, and ready for action.
▶ 1:05:14At Marine Corps Installations Command, we oversee the quality and consistency of food services across all installations and strive to continuously improve the dining experience by collaborating with industry partners and gathering feedback from our Marines. Warrior readiness begins at our installations. The Marine Corps is dedicated to ensuring that every Marine receives the best possible meal to fuel their body for the mission.
▶ 1:05:42We are proud of the work we do to support the health and readiness of our force. We appreciate your continued support in these critical efforts. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify for you before you here today. We look forward to your questions. Thank you very much. Chair now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. Want to wanted to start with um and General Moan you had mentioned about the universities and and going up to the standard.
▶ 1:06:10Do you think that the defects are at that standard now that can be comparable to a university? So, um, thank you for the question, sir. I would tell you that uh our dining facilities um we have bright ink spots of really innovative soldiers who are driving this uh change at the dining facility level, but because we are an army in motion constantly.
▶ 1:06:33And so when we think about a university and our our campus style dining pilot, it is to to institutionalize the management and the and the um the operation of our dining facilities at scale, which will bring in a whole another level of uh of of expertise from the commercial industry.
▶ 1:06:50So, we're going to commercialize our dining facilities, but again, meeting the soldiers where they are, making sure they have healthy, nutritious op nutritious options, um, and things like expanded hours, uh, more grab and go, more, etc. And, uh, in the pilot program, is it how many locations is it? Five, sir, it's five locations, five different states. The, uh, request for proposal is on the street right now. Anticipate that we will get our, um, our offerers in in the next couple months. We would do the evaluation in the fall.
▶ 1:07:20We'll be ready for business. Admiral Grace, same question. As far as do you think that uh Navy facilities would measure up to say universities we see across the country? Sir, I think we offer very high quality food uh nutritious options for our sailors. Uh I agree with you. There is variation. Uh but I think the standard across the entire service is good and the and remains high.
▶ 1:07:43uh we do have uh bright spots of excellence in some locations and we're working hard to capture those lessons learned and and uh raise the standard across uh our service. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:07:58sir, while we are not there, I have to say um I would think we're about maybe 70 75% there because of that initiative that we had in place since 2010 with food 2.0 O and with the partnership we have with universities where we go out and walk the ground, walk the university, talk with the uh chefs, the food service managers, the dieticians.
▶ 1:08:23How do you provide this level of support and what it is we can pull from it in partnership to advance our food services operations? That's a lot to be said for best practices and not reinventing the wheel. For sure. Uh General, thank you chairman.
▶ 1:08:39I would start by saying that we have moved away from the line style feeding process that you remember from previous years except for an initial training and we have more of a diverse option uh at each of our dining facilities with two kids in college. I can tell you that two different universities have very different dining uh quality.
▶ 1:08:59Um at our mesh halls we have variations in quality sometimes as well and we're working really hard to improve in this next contract that we are currently negotiating uh to offer better hours uh better options and increased quality. Yeah I mean the fact of the matter is when I think the take rate is roughly what do you know what your take rate is general? Sir it's approximately 25% of our soldiers who are ESM and live or SIK and live in the barracks. Yeah we we found about 25 30% roughly.
▶ 1:09:25So that drives with what we were looking at and universities take rates usually about 60 or 70%. So it's higher and there's work to be done I think for sure. Uh, another very important question is I'd like to go down the line. Who is direct what individual is directly responsible for food quality in the in the unit army? For food quality at the institution level, it's me. Um, but but at the unit level, it is unit commanders and we place the responsibility on unit commanders all the way up to the installation senior commanders.
▶ 1:09:56But I am responsible. But you wear more than that hat though. You do a lot of other things. Yes sir, I do. Okay. Same question for the admiral. Sir, we have multiple stakeholders, but I am the Navy's quality of service uh lead under the vice chief of naval operations. So, I take responsibility for the delivery of quality food uh at our installations. Fair to also say though, Admiral, you have a lot of other hats and jobs that you're I do have many hats. Yes, sir. Mr. Larry, likewise, sir.
▶ 1:10:21I have many hats, but I am that overseeing that accountability quality leader now through a services center with an '06 providing outreach and support to all of our installation to zero in on that General, yeah, thank you chairman. I am responsible for the quality of the food service provided. Is that the only thing you do for the United States Marine Corps? Absolutely not. Yeah.
▶ 1:10:44And I think you see the theme and and what we're uh we want to talk to some very smart people and maybe have a billet for specifically that that's how important this quality of life issue is. Uh and I want to thank you all for uh your coming answering the questions. And I'm now recognized ranking member. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um when I'm just going to ask each one of you, when was the last time you ate at one of your dining installations and would you recommend it to a friend?
▶ 1:11:13So the last time I ate in a dino facility, ma'am, was at uh at Fort Kavasos um at the hub uh within three cores footprint and I absolutely would recommend it to a friend. And when was that? Um it was probably about uh four months ago. Excellent. Was there for a war fighter exercise? Admiral? Uh just about two weeks ago out in Fallon, Nevada. So um and yes, it was a quality experience. I enjoyed it very much and uh I was happy uh walking out that we were delivering the right service to our sailors. Mr.
▶ 1:11:42Larry last month ma'am at Dova Air Force Base Delaware as part of our food 2.0 dining operation. Uh great experience and I come back to my response to represent through chairman Fallon about 70% 75% we're about there. We're working hard at it. We're ramping up but a good experience. Excellent in general. Thank you ma'am. I ate at a dining facility about a month ago uh here in the Quanico area. I will tell you that previously in the fall I had eaten at one that did not meet the standard.
▶ 1:12:13We sent in an inspection team. We closed that dining facility for three months to get it back up to speed. Thank you. I appreciate your your cander and I grew up in a military family and my father always take me into the mass hall to eat with uh soldiers and sailors and I also was in the military myself and having experienced some diversity of of efforts across the world. I will say that there are hits and misses and I'm grateful that we're focusing on this.
▶ 1:12:39Um uh General Moen, my question to you is I'm confused. It sounded like that you got authority to do this test in 2023 and now it's 2025 and we have we're still out with the RFP. Is that my correct understanding? 25 NDA man. Oh, 2025. Okay. So, that makes more sense. And so, at this point, you're not you haven't gotten anywhere other than the RFP and and you expect results in the fall.
▶ 1:13:06Besides the the roll out of additional initiatives like kiosk, food trucks, uh meal prep programs have been extremely popular, but from a contractual standpoint is we're it's the RFP. Yes. Excellent. Excellent. I look forward to the results and uh a plan for rapid roll out if you have success with it, which I anticipate you will. Uh Admiral, um do you have any visibility into the food program cost data at the installation level?
▶ 1:13:32I know there's been some kind of confusion and drama about which different accounts are, you know, hitting the BAS line or not. Uh do you feel as though you have good transparency and good accountability and good accounting in that area? Uh in in the aggregate, yes, ma'am. I mean, we know uh we do a good job budgeting for our accounting each year. As a matter of fact, um we go typically go over budget. For the last five years, we go over budget.
▶ 1:14:00Uh as I stated in my opening statement um not only do we collect uh BAS for those who get rations in kind the Navy supplements that to provide additional funding. So overall we do have good visibility. I coordinated with the other stakeholders in the Navy and in preparation with this hearing and I was satisfied uh with the information I was provided. Thank you.
▶ 1:14:21And with the remaining time uh that I have, General regarding the Marines, I I'm uh interested to find out that there are only two vendors that you all rely on and that just seems like a vulnerability. Um is there any thought to diversifying your vendor fleet so that we don't end up in a vulnerable position? Ma'am, currently we are in negotiations to renew our contract right now. Uh we expect to have that completed by the end of the FY.
▶ 1:14:50I will take that back and look at it ma'am whether we can diversify more as you know currently we are really down we are with one single source down to one yes ma'am okay so we'll look at it diversification I am a supply chain person is definitely important and lastly with uh Mr. Larry on the Air Force uh where I served.
▶ 1:15:08Uh you all have been working on transformation in food system changes since 2010 is my understanding, but it seems as though implementing those changes across all installations still has not been completed and we are obviously in 2025. What are the delays to those installation changes? Part of the delays, ma'am, is just working across different leaderships as our installation leadership changes every other year about every two years.
▶ 1:15:38The other part I would say would be the funding, how much funding we have, how quickly we can get after it, how many staff we have on to go out and not only do it ma'am, but do it correctly because we think of it within the construct of like an interview operation. It's one thing to open it, but it's another thing to keep it open this way. It's one thing to say we have gone there and upgraded, but we want to make sure that is done correctly and done in a manner that meet the needs and desires of our military members.
▶ 1:16:08So, we'll pick up the pace, but we've been working it pretty hard. I would I I need to yield back, but I would argue that when it's become almost the point when we have another 18-year-old who wasn't born when we started that it's going a little bit too slow in terms of the pace. I I yield my I yield back. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I just want to for the record, Fallon, Nevada is my favorite town in that state. Uh chair now recognizes my good friend from Florida, Mr. Mills. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:16:35Uh gentlemen, I appreciate you all coming here today and for your continued service, but I'll really look for transparency at this point. Uh as you're well aware, the recently reported funding challenges at the defects or chow halls across 11 Army installations was certainly of concern for me as a military combat veteran. The biggest concern is the cost associated with these programs.
▶ 1:16:56If they're fully funded at $50 per soldier, our service members should be eating steak and lobster and instead they're investing in yields that you know investing in things that yield poor quality and inconsistent hours that leave our soldiers, sailors, marines, guardians lacking. General Mohan, I believe in accountability. I think we all understand the difference between responsibility and accountability. Responsibility is I'm sorry, my fault, my bad.
▶ 1:17:21Accountability is being removed from your position, being downgraded, or actually having someone else come in and do something about it. So, I just want to be clear. I believe in accountability at all levels of our service, not just for our junior enlisted or our junior officers. So, who is ultimately responsible for the management and oversight of defect operations within the army? Sir, thank you for that question. And then from a standpoint at the at the army level um for our future strategy and our current operations, the person is me.
▶ 1:17:52And what measures have you enacted in order to correct these failures to include logistical failures at for Cabos? The the um the first is meeting the soldiers where they are, finding out what they want. Um, and we've learned some tough lessons when we've rolled out initiatives that have that have gone uh almost better than what we had like for kiosk uh meal prep programs. And so we had to make adjustments both in our vendor base and the way we operate those kiosk.
▶ 1:18:18But our future um that we have an RFP on the street right now is to totally change the way that that we feed soldiers. So we get the quality that we get the the corporate level people who do this for a living to to uh to feed our soldiers while we focus our 92 golfs our our food service personnel on being soldiers and being prepared to sustain soldiers in On Monday, the Pentagon released a memorandum entitled workforce acceleration and recapitalization initiative, organizational review.
▶ 1:18:49This memorandum states that all functions that are not inherently governmental, retail, sales, recreation, such, should be prioritized for privatization. Do you believe that the essential messing would operate more efficiently, predictability, and effectively if its management was handed over to the private sector with proper oversight? Yes, sir. Uh, with the exception of Sorry. with the exception of I'm sorry um our overseas deployed um uh operations that needs to be soldierled um and executed.
▶ 1:19:19Vice Admiral, I do believe uh we would benefit from privatization. We do have a challenge though. I mean, we've got a lot of we can't privatize on a ship underway in a combat zone, for example. And so, um, while we do have opportunities in Konis and and potentially even at some overseas locations, we got to be careful the people who do, uh, CS's who do work aboard ship, we need somewhere for them to rotate ashore and serve.
▶ 1:19:43And so, uh, we got to balance that with, uh, our our, you know, the career path and, uh, the the challenges we have associated with that. But I am a fan. Sir, on the surface, I would think so. It's just a matter of as Admiral Gray stated, how will we model that readiness and that combat element to make sure that we have that right? Because having been an onseen commander down ranging over massive tent city operations, we had better have it right.
▶ 1:20:13So won't step away from it willing to look but my vote is not in yet. Have to work it. I like that. Major General Woodworth. Thank you, sir. I will start by saying all of our KONis mesh halls are operated by our contract. So we have not quite taken the step all the way to privatization, but we do have a private company that we contract with to do those. Okonus is still all Marine Corps.
▶ 1:20:37Uh we will take the uh question back and look more detailed at whether privatization is a good option for us. Obviously there are some significant benefits, but I would bet that the cost would go up for us. So something to consider. Thank you. Well, you know, in my experience, what I found is that privatization actually ends up being cheaper because the one thing that the government does well is spend money. We don't necessarily spend it efficiently or effectively, but we're very good at spending money. I think the $36.7 trillion and deficit right now would prove that.
▶ 1:21:06My whole thing is though, the commissaries are basically almost all privatized at this point, whether it's from running the cashiers and the actual systems itself or whether it's stocking the shelves or whether it's actually selecting vendors to try and get it on the thing. So, I hope that you do look into the privatization or at least a private public partnership of some sort and uh hopefully in our next meeting if the chairman does decide, we can try and see what kind of updates we have. With that, I yield back. Thank you. Chair now recognizes uh from Washington, Miss Strickland. Great.
▶ 1:21:35Thank you, Chairman Fallon, Ranking Member Hulahan. I have the honor of representing Joint Base Lewis McChord and I think about people that age, the choices they make when they're getting food, especially the people who live in the barracks. And so I think about barriers that they may have. So can you talk to me about some of the feedback you receive from people that you surveyed? How easily is it accessible, especially given their schedules? How far are the dining hall facilities from the barracks that they stay in?
▶ 1:22:06what type of off what what type of offerings are they getting and then also to you know how you get how you assure that nutritious food is what's on the menu as well. So I'll start with you General Mohan. Uh thank you for that question and uh I was stationed at uh at then Fort Lewis several years ago um and we had a network of dining facilities.
▶ 1:22:30the the uh the landscape has changed somewhat and so what we've uh what we've seen the army do and senior commanders again senior commanders program is to layer transportation on top of food service and offer a um the Rainineer Express which is an Uberlike uh an Uber-like app where soldiers can get picked up where they are um particularly in times of a high uptempo when we might have our our dino facility personnel deployed to the field or out in the Pacific on an exercise to shuttle and move those soldiers around as As far as the nutritious
▶ 1:23:00food in the in the um uh in the dining facilities, all of our recipes are uh approved by dietitians and come from uh a uh a process of oversight that comes from our joint culinary center. Um and so so they operate uh off those those recipe cards. Um I will admit that kiosk have been somewhat of a challenge um because one we had catastrophic success in a couple of places when we rolled them out.
▶ 1:23:28um again um not realizing how exactly popular it would be. And so we leaned on our partners in the Defense Commissary Agency to to basically upscale the um uh the the food that we have in our kiosk to meet the demand that we have um at our installations. All right, Vice Admiral Gray. Thank you for the question, ma'am. Um yeah, I first and foremost, I would say I I am very frustrated by the low utilization rate by our sailors.
▶ 1:23:55It's uh breaks my heart frankly to know that we um you know we take their entitlement and then we see them oftent times using Uber Eats or going to McDonald's or you know Five Guys on the Base. So they're we're essentially paying twice for the food. And for these young folks who don't have a lot of money, it's a crusher for me, right? And so, you know, I will tell you that um we do a great job, I think, in providing healthy options for nutrient-dense foods. Um the barracks are typically uh in the vicinity of the galley.
▶ 1:24:25Many of our ships work aboard uh many of our sailors work aboard ship and so they can eat on the ship or they can choose to eat off the ship on the galley. So there are options from a health perspective. We follow as all of us do the DoD 1338 instruction which outlines the food options that we have to make. You know for example uh we we we typically do a minimum of three entre one of them is a vegetarian.
▶ 1:24:50um you will have multiple fruit options, uh three to four cereal options, a hot cereal option, um vegetables and starches, etc. And and all of those um menus that our dietitians review as well are reviewed to ensure that they meet the USDA criteria. So, um we offer it, it's available to them there. Um but we got to do a better job at getting them in the door and making them uh uh making them want to take advantage of their entitlement. Great, Mr. Larry.
▶ 1:25:22Yes, ma'am. We think we do a pretty decent job with this one, especially in terms of the way that we have structured our menus and continually working them to have like we used to be at a 14-day cycle our menus. Now, we're at a 28. And what that does is it's laid out for the whole month virtually. You can the member will see what he going to have for meals when they go in that dining facility. And that's been very very popular.
▶ 1:25:47The other part of that is when you look at it from a nutrition of value perspective, when we go back to OSD's construct of go for green, we have been really zeroed in on that very heavily and also with our friends in the Army Air Force Exchange. What percentage of your products in these facilities are healthy items and how are they coded? So when a novice person like HL Larry walk in, I don't have to read every element on the menu.
▶ 1:26:14is coded so I can see this is healthy, this is the least little bit least nutrient, etc. And I know what I'm looking for and we also make sure we have those nutrient items up front so they pick those before they see the others. Thank you, Major General Woodworth. Thank you for the question, ma'am. And I would start by saying the most important thing we need to do is to make it taste better. I was going to ask, do you all season the food? Yes, ma'am. There are recipes, of course, but yes, uh, absolutely. We need to make it taste better if we want more people to come there.
▶ 1:26:44We have a program called Field Fuel to Fight, which is essentially a marine nutrition education program that we're working real hard on. We need to provide more hours, more grab-and-go options, uh, and more uh, better tasting food. Thank you, ma'am. All right. Well, thank you very much for all of your hard work with this. We do appreciate it and we appreciate your attention to quality of life for those who are serving. Thank you so much. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Chair now recognizes gentleman from California, Mr. Cisneros. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here.
▶ 1:27:13Um, like I think I'm in a unique experience here or because of my previous experience, right? I used to be under secretary of defense for personnel readiness. Every time I visit a base, I made sure I I ate in a dining hall. Plus, I used to be a food service officer, too. So, I'm always, you know, there as to kind of go and the quality of the food. I will always stand up for our cooks, our our mess specialists, our culinary specialists as we call them there. and all the services and the job that they do.
▶ 1:27:44I think they do provide quality food. Um, and I always say used to say sailors just sailors need something to complain about and the easiest thing for them to complain about was the food on the ship. But that being aside, um I I don't think the the quality of the food is really the problem. And and I will tell you that just from my experience when I would go um it was always access, right?
▶ 1:28:09if if they were working on the flight line or you know the galley wasn't near the flight line, they didn't have a vehicle to get to the other side of the base where the the the chow hall was or the galley. Um if they were working crazy hours, if they were like at you know a medic or a corman there at the hospital uh and they they didn't have they weren't able to go to the galley because the galley was closed during the hours that they worked.
▶ 1:28:33Um, so that was more the problems that I ran into that I saw that I experienced it when people came to me and kind of were telling me about the food. It wasn't really that much. I don't I'm not going to say I never heard about the quality of the food, but it was it was more access there. And I will say visiting Camp Pendleton, I would say if you all haven't been there, they have some galleries over there. Camp Pendleton I think are phenomenal and should be an example for all the services.
▶ 1:29:02Um, as far as the diversity of the food that's available, um, they were all able to, the Marines were able to get as much as they wanted to eat. Um, I remember we went there and served Thanksgiving dinner time with my family. I had one one Marine that must have came up 12 times for all the tur, you know, to get all the turkey that that was available to them. And I think that's a great great example. The problem there though was sometimes Camp Pendleton being so big, all of the galleys always weren't open all the time.
▶ 1:29:28And so sometimes they had to travel a great distance in order to get to one that was open. Um so I would say and just to kind of set the record straight, DECA is not run um by contractors now. It's it's still run by DECA and that kind of used to follow under me.
▶ 1:29:45But I will say the thing that they did to change the commissaries was they actually put a lot of emphasis in there and they tried to make it a better experience for the customers kind of going into their I mean I remember when I was in the Navy you had to follow the line go the route and now it's more like just like going into any other supermarket and I think they they really put a big emphasis on that and really trying to change that and so I think that's where we kind of need to go with you know I I think with our our child halls or galleys
▶ 1:30:15or whatever we call them in the various services is really kind of focus on the the quality and the access and ensuring that our service members can get there. And so, Chen, General Mohan, the the one thing I I do worry about with the army's experiment and the uh um is that I I my elma mater and I will say they will go unnamed here got actually got rid of their dining halls and they went to a thing where you could just basically get you would have
▶ 1:30:46money on the card and you could go eat anywhere in the vicinity. Most of them ran out of money before the semester was even over. And I worry about our our service members kind of having that same experience that they're going to the place where it's a little bit more expensive here and there and then halfway through the month they're out of money. Um so how's the army going to deal with that? And so sir, thank you for that question.
▶ 1:31:10And uh the way we're dealing with it is is um one we're not there yet as far as you get a loaded card that you can go and go to anywhere on the installation. We have talked about it. we've done the uh the necessary um electronic transactions to prove that we can do it in testing, but right now we are focused on our campus style dining facilities that has those things that you that you mentioned um vastly expanded hours um grab-and-go programs and we've even in the RFP we've authorized um offerers
▶ 1:31:40to offer an option to do meal delivery um and then layered on top of that transportation services uh on the installation like we have at JBLM. um and also at uh at Fort Kavaso's two larger of our larger installations. So, so we do not intend um to uh in the current construct of the contract to to um change things for soul. If you're an ESM soldiers living in the barracks, you go to the dining facility, you swipe your card and you eat what you want. And that's where we're headed.
▶ 1:32:10Well, thank you for that answer and thank you all for being here and I yield back. Thank you. Chair now recognizes from California, Miss Jacobs. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Um, and thank you all for being here. I represent San Diego. Um, and in San Diego alone, our food bank serves nearly 40,000 service members and their families every single month. Um, it's clear that the military is falling short in ensuring that our service members and their families are food secure, right, with those high numbers.
▶ 1:32:39Vice Admiral Gray, Major General Woodworth, I know you both know San Diego well. How are your services planning to address this issue specifically in high-cost areas like San Diego where BAS is often not enough to cover food costs and what if anything do you need from Congress to be able to address this problem? Well, thank you ma'am for the question.
▶ 1:32:58And in my opening remarks, I uh I did mention that I think uh with the high cost of food and the the rise in inflation, uh I I I do think it's prudent that uh Congress takes a look at um the rate of BAS uh not only to provide adequate quantity, but the quality of food. You know, fresh fruits and vegetables are more expensive than processed fruits and vegetables. Yet, that's exactly what we we want our sailors to eat, those nutrient-dense foods.
▶ 1:33:24So I would encourage uh that I I think um I think the work that Congress uh has done with the basic needs allowance is uh is an important work to to put a an appropriate floor uh ensure that um our youngest sailors uh get adequate resources they need to feed themselves and their families when appropriate. Right now those numbers are very small in the milit in the in the Navy.
▶ 1:33:46I think uh 22 people but uh that threshold is being raised from 150% to 200 in the in the new near future and I think that will add a a significant number to the role. So I appreciate the work that that Congress has done in that Thank you for your question, Congresswoman. I would argue that the best place for them to eat if they are meal card eligible is the dining facility for $13.30 a day is the cheapest food that they're going to get.
▶ 1:34:16Now, that doesn't solve the problem about families that I know is in your mind as well. Um, I think that the pay rate change that we just uh in the last NDAA that's in effect now, I think will have a positive impact there. Um, I also think that uh that we need to potentially take more advantage of a uh tool we already have, the basic needs allowance, um, which uh which offers an additional stipen per month for Marines in the lowest uh earning levels. So, thank you for your question. Absolutely. Okay.
▶ 1:34:45Well, thank you guys for bringing up basic needs allowance. I was really proud that we were able to expand it in last year's NDAA to 200% of the federal poverty line. Um, Admiral, I know you said there were 22 people in the Navy who currently receive BNA. Could the rest of you share in each of your services how many people are currently receiving BNA? Ma'am, I will tell you that I don't know the exact number. I know that is uh it's a low number.
▶ 1:35:09Um and we are trying to um to ensure commanders understand um what those limits are and do the the financial education that is necessary at not only from a soldier level but also a leader level so we can point soldiers to those um uh avenues of support. Thank Same here ma'am. I do not have that number with me but I know it's a low number and we will follow up. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Congresswoman. Uh the number that I have is four.
▶ 1:35:38So, we will look to expand that. Okay. And um I guess my next question you might not have the answer to. So, if if not, you can take it back. But how many do you estimate are eligible for BNA but are not receiving those benefits? Ma'am, I need to take that one for the record and come back with you with the exact answer. Sure. Uh it's a good question.
▶ 1:36:02um you know as uh General Mohan alluded to those benefits have to be applied for based on the circumstances. So I really don't have any way of knowing whether or not the system is adequately um informing commanders and informing sailors at the lowest level to ensure that they uh they're they get the benefits that they're eligible for.
▶ 1:36:24But we do work hard within our um our personnel system to identify those people that we do make the criteria that meet that criteria and then reach out to those commanders to proactively encourage them to uh uh to apply for those benefits.
▶ 1:36:42I would follow up but may I just say for the department of the air force that is one that we consistently try and assess but it is very very difficult for one reason for the people who may be food insecure they don't have to talk to any senior leaders I go back to our senior enlisted leaders all the time like I did a year ago said how many do you think are there and how many may need help and they're just not aware because what they do is knowing that they're not going come in and ask for help.
▶ 1:37:12I have it. Then we say, if you do need help, here are the resources available to you, and we try and approach it that way. But I would get you a definitive answer and follow up. Thank you, General. Thank you, Congresswoman. Uh BNA is a program that I've learned more about during preparation for this testimony and something we will continue to push. Uh we have,00 Marines approximately that are eligible and as I said, we only have four that are taking it. So, we got some work to do. All right. Well, I appreciate that. I look forward to working together with you all on addressing this issue. And Mr.
▶ 1:37:42Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. Chair now recognizes gentle lady from Hawaii, Miss Duda. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I know that this hearing was partially inspired by concerns regarding the military's allocation and use of the basic allowance for subsistence. I had a good conversation with General Mingus about this issue last week. And while he assured me that the dollars are being fully spent in support of soldiers nutritional needs, I emphasized that the complexity of the accounting in the JBooks is another unressed part of the problem for all of the services.
▶ 1:38:11It's very frustrating because it's not clear that it adds up. And the reality is that as much as a quarter of service members still, as we've been talking about, experience food insecurity, which only makes the situation worse. And so I do want to reiterate that point here and encourage all of you to streamline the accounting for the BS. So it's clear to all of us and to our service members especially as to how this money is being spent in the right way and getting directly to them. So thank you very much for being here today. I want to touch upon a few things.
▶ 1:38:39I know many of the questions were were already asked. One is talking about um the culture and stigma around food insecurity. You know, a major challenge that has been mentioned in both the recent Rand study and in other places is the culture surrounding food insecurity in the military. There are various ways that this issue is described, although one variation is that food insecurity is linked to a stigma of poor financial management, which can make it harder for service members to get promoted or get security clearances they need for career advancement.
▶ 1:39:09And so what is clear to me is that there's a cultural challenge, that stigma that makes it hard for service members and their families to talk about food and hunger. This only makes it harder to tackle the root problem and the root causes of food insecurity in this unique subset of our population. Now, understanding that for many of our young service members, this might be the first time they're living away from home.
▶ 1:39:31First time they might get a plastic card loaded with some cash and as was just mentioned by my colleague, could be spent before the month is well over because they're making poor decisions perhaps fiscally. So, how are you, you know, working to re inform and improve the military food system, but also address and tackle what are some fundamental um cultural challenges to create a healthier dialogue about food, nutrition, and financial management amongst our service Uh, ma'am, I'll take that.
▶ 1:40:01Um, it's a great question. Uh, a lot of sailors leave their mamas and come to us and their mamas did everything for them and so they don't know how to do the most simple things. They don't know how to cook for themselves. They don't know that you don't pour kitty litter down the toilet or it clogs up. I mean, so, you know, the basics oftentimes it's just basic life skills.
▶ 1:40:23And so we do have through our fleet and family service centers um you know those educational skills, financial management, we can get you counseling um you know uh planning for baby all of these uh courses that we offer. Uh I I think first and foremost I'll speak for myself but I I think this applies across the breadth of all the services is um knowing and understanding those things.
▶ 1:40:48It's so important at the unit level and at the chief level or the division officer level that people know their sailors and that they interact with their sailors and they ask questions of their sales because you're right, people get embarrassed.
▶ 1:41:01you know, they they overextend themselves um on their bills and then they don't want to highlight it by coming to say I can't afford food and then they suffer in silence and oftentimes we we will only find out about it a month after or you know when they're really now in crisis and so um the connection at the lowest level is so important to ensuring that we're taking care of our folks uh and and that that intrusive leadership in their lives to ask them the questions is
▶ 1:41:31just critically important. Thank you. Anyone else want to touch? Yes, ma'am. I'd like to jump on this one as well. Um, so we see as a a multifaceted approach. The first is as uh Admiral Grace said, look, the the first line leaders have to know their soldiers and have to be involved in their soldiers. And again, intrusive leadership is a term that we use as well. We layer on top of that financial training echelon, not only for our our young soldiers and our young officers as well.
▶ 1:42:00um uh in order to teach them how to manage the you know the money that they have but also from a leadership perspective how to direct soldiers to the right place to get that uh that financial resource help. Um and then we we offer a variety of options and we spend $13 million a year on just the financial readiness program. We also have a virtual program that uh that so for soldiers who are maybe a little bit hesitant that has virtual skills and virtual training they can take to manage that money.
▶ 1:42:28Um and uh and then for the actual uh you know teaching them how to live. I hate to use that term but we've had some innovative units again driven by junior leaders that have said okay the meal prep program because in your dining facilities or in your barracks um we have uh cooking facilities your meal prep program is going to be in some cases ready to cook food. And so they teach them how to cook um and which I think is is really important.
▶ 1:42:53Um, and then finally, as we envision our future state of our campus style dining facility, look, the the end in in the contract is the ambiance, the modern restaurant feel. So, it's a place where where families can also come. Really focused on our junior listed soldiers that live in the barracks, but also as a as a bonus. It's a safe place. It's a good place, and it's a quality place at a reasonable price for soldiers to bring their families to. Okay. Thank you very much. I know my time's elapsed.
▶ 1:43:23I um yield back. Mr. Chair, I want to thank all the witnesses. This is I think a really good uh really good hearing. Very informative work to do. I think we'll all agree there. Would encourage you, you probably already doing that. Uh best practices in in talking to one another and my experience in the Air Force. I always like the mess personally myself, know. You're welcome. You're welcome.
▶ 1:43:47Um, I would like to thank the witnesses again at providing for their testimony this afternoon and for uh their future attention to this matter as well as present. There being no further business, this subcommittee is