▶ 0:24:02committee will come to order. Uh today we continue our posture hearings with Indoaccom and US Forces Korea. I want to thank our witnesses for being here and for their service to our nation and the time it took for them to prepare for this hearing. These are very helpful and I appreciate your uh your commitment. Last week, China carried out large-scale military exercises off Taiwan's coast. China practiced assaulting maritime and ground targets and cutting Taiwan off from the world.
▶ 0:24:31This is not new. In recent years, China has increased the size, scope, and complexity of its drills around Taiwan. As Admiral Paparro has said, these are not exercises. These are rehearsals for a future for a forced reunification. And these rehearsals are backed by real capability. China now has the world's largest navy and a ship building capacity over 200 times greater than our own.
▶ 0:25:01It's rapidly expanding its nuclear arsenal and is expected to double its warheads by 2030. And China leads the world in hypersonic missile systems. China's growing defense budget shows it isn't slowing down. Last month, it announced a 7.2% increase in defense spending, the fourth straight year it increased by more than 7%. Its military modernization is also being assisted by Moscow.
▶ 0:25:30In return for supporting Putin's war machine, China is receiving advanced submarine, missile, and nuclear technology. China is also working closely with Iran and North Korea to further its effort to undermine American influence and alliances around the world, and we cannot let them Yet year after year, the billions in Indoaccom's unfunded priorities have shown we're not giving our war fighters the tools they need to defeat
▶ 0:26:01China or to deter China. That must change. China is our pacing threat and our defense investments must reflect that. We must fund Guam missile defense as part of President Trump's Golden Dome initiative. We must boost our defense, our ability to to blind Chinese forces while hardening our command and control. We must refill our munition stockpiles, especially long range fires.
▶ 0:26:32We must expand the production of a treatable unmanned systems to create the hellscape Admiral Paparo envisions. And we must rebuild and modernize the US ship building capabilities. Delivering these capabilities will take serious investment. That's why I'm pushing for an increased uh spending in our military, including through uh through the reconciliation process with robust defense spending.
▶ 0:27:01Ultimately, deterring China, excuse me, ultimately deterring China is not something we should do alone. As Secretary Hegseath has said during his recent trip to the to the region, America first does not mean America alone. And he's right. That's why I supported the upgrade of US forces Japan to a joint force headquarters. It will strengthen our combined deterrence and response capabilities with Japan.
▶ 0:27:29We must also accelerate AUS, especially efforts to field cutting edge interoperable systems. And we need more co-production, co-development, and co- sustainment with our regional allies and partners. We must also deliver weapons and training to Taiwan faster. That's why I strongly supported the Taiwan Security Cooperation Initiative in last NDAA. And I intend to authorize it at a robust level again this year.
▶ 0:27:58We know Z uh instructed the PLA to be ready for operations against Taiwan by 2027. However, I don't believe he has yet decided whether to pursue uh unification by force. Our job is to make sure Z knows a cross straight invasion would be too costly and ultimately futile. While China is our primary strategic adversary, North Korea remains a growing threat.
▶ 0:28:25In October 2024, Kim tested a new ICBM that could strike the US homeland while carrying multiple nuclear warheads. I I'm concerned these advances will accelerate as Kim strengthens his ties with Vladimir Putin, especially given North Korea supplied Russia with millions of shells and thousands of troops. Putin owes him.
▶ 0:28:50I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how we can establish or reestablish deterrence against these threats posed by China and North Korea and what they need from us to and this committee to do that. With that, I yield to my friend the ranking member for any opening statement he may have. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I I welcome our witnesses and appreciate uh their service and their leadership in a very very complicated part of the world. And I agree with the chairman that the primary goal for us in that part of the world is to deter conflict certainly deterring conflict with China.
▶ 0:29:20North Korea presents challenges in that regard as well. And it is problematic because China is in the midst of a massive military buildup and we see increasing cooperation as the chairman outlined uh between China, North Korea, Russia, Iran and all of our adversaries in a way that will really stress our ability to deter that conflict. So it's most important to hear from the witnesses what do we need uh from an equipment standpoint uh in order to be in the best possible position to deter our adversaries.
▶ 0:29:49Now there is one challenge here and that is that we have a what is it $36 trillion debt massive deficit. So the thing I'm always anxious to hear from is what choices are we going to make because as we sit before this committee every single group that comes before us tells us that they need a lot more than what they have. Um we simply we we don't have the money or the resources to meet all of those demands across every sphere of our national security needs.
▶ 0:30:16So we need to start making choices and looking for ways to effectively deter in a more coste effective manner. We can't imagine that we can just throw money at the problem. We have to be really smart about what's going to work. So I'm very curious to hear from our witnesses what lessons they have learned from conflicts elsewhere in the world about what we truly need to to be deterred and where we might be able to do that in a more affordable way. Not less effective, but more affordable.
▶ 0:30:42We've got the great example of Ukraine who doesn't even have a navy um that is a been able to blunt the force of the Russian Navy in the Black Sea with basically one-way attack surface level drones. Um they've been able to really leverage that to get a good military outcome. We need to be smart about how we do that going forward. So that's going to be a key part of getting us to deterrence.
▶ 0:31:08But ultimately, I think we need to be mindful of the fact that one goal here needs to be to figure out how we can peacefully coexist with China. China's not going anywhere. We're not going anywhere. There's no sort of win in the sense that one side is going to ultimately defeat the other. China is a major economic power. They are a major military power and so are we. So, what is the plan to peacefully coexist with China? How do we get there? Admitting that deterrence has to be part of that.
▶ 0:31:36We have to be strong to get to that point, but constant conflict with China does not seem like a wise course of action if we ultimately want to deter conflict. And then the last part of this, the chairman mentioned the importance of partners and allies and Secretary Heg's comment about America first doesn't mean America alone right now. Yes, it does. All right.
▶ 0:31:59I cannot see a single solitary thing that the Trump administration has done to build and strengthen relationships with any partner in the world except maybe Russia. About the only place I can see where the president has said things about how he wants to get along with Russia. We have launched a trade war against every single one of our partners in the Asia region. Every last one of them. no matter how much they've worked with us.
▶ 0:32:29Frankly, even in the case of Australia, where Australia, we have a trade surplus with Australia, but we're going to shoot at them, too. H how on earth is that not America alone? And our partnerships have been really important and and I want to thank our our our witnesses and others. In the last five or six years, we've built very strong relationships with Japan, with South Korea, with the Philippines. Uh we're building stronger relationships with India and Indonesia.
▶ 0:32:58Australia has been a tremendous partner and this has been the greatest thing that has really frustrated China. They're now surrounded by a group of nations who don't want to be bullied by China. So they're looking to us for for support and that has worked very well. And now we are trying to outbully China. That seems to be the strategy. We're going to show Australia and Japan and all these countries that we can punch them just as hard as China can punch them.
▶ 0:33:21I am deeply concerned that that is going to undermine our ability to deter the region towards no particular end. So I really hope I'll close with two things. One, let's push back on this. Let's build partnerships. And then also back to the budget point, I knew I was forgetting something. You can't cut taxes by $6 trillion and claim that you want to spend more money on defense. It just well unless unless you think debt the debt and deficits don't matter. And I thought that was an argument for the far left, not for the far right.
▶ 0:33:51So we have to be realistic about the choices we face if we are going to meet the very important deterrence goals uh that we have in the Indo-acific region. Thank you. I yield back. And I thank the ranking member. And now I'd like to introduce our witnesses. We have Mr. John No, who is performing the duties of assistant secretary of defense for Indo-Pacific security affairs.
▶ 0:34:14Admiral Paparro who is the commander of US Indo Pacific Command and General Brunson who is the commander of United Nations Command, Combined Forces Command and the United States Korea for United States Forces Korea. With that, Mr. No, we'll start with you. You're recognized for five minutes to summarize your opening statement. Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee.
▶ 0:34:39Uh thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss our military posture and the national security challenges in the Indo-acific. And it is a distinct honor to speak with you alongside Admiral Paparo and General Brunson. Let me begin by reaffirming our mission as laid out by the commander-in-chief, President Donald Trump. We will achieve peace through strength.
▶ 0:35:07And Secretary of Defense Pete Hexath has provided us very clear guidance on how the department will achieve that mission. Revive the warrior ethos, rebuild our military, and deterrence. China's undertaking an unprecedented military buildup. The PLA is developing a large and advanced arsenal of nuclear, conventional, cyber, and space capabilities.
▶ 0:35:36Xi Jinping has ordered the PLA to be ready to invade Taiwan by 2027. China aims to dominate the Indoacific and displace the United States as the world's most powerful nation.
▶ 0:35:51To counter the growing threat from China, it is critical that we reestablish deterrence in the Indoacific resource with combat credible military forces posture it forward while rebalancing burden sharing with our allies and partners and investing in our defense industrial base to support our war fighters.
▶ 0:36:11The bottom line is that we need to accelerate efforts to strengthen our force posture and increase operational capabilities in the Indoacific given China's historic and rapid military buildup and the urgent need to reestablish deterrence. And we will pursue an America first approach. But America first does not mean America alone or America only.
▶ 0:36:37It means that America is supported by and standing with capable, like-minded allies and partners. Allies and partners who will do their part to restore and sustain deterrence. Stronger allies lead to stronger alliances. And stronger alliances deter aggression and create dilemmas for our adversaries. And this is what the department, this department and the team seated here before you today are delivering.
▶ 0:37:08Uh in closing, thank you for your support and leadership and for the opportunity to testify before you today and I greatly greatly appreciate your continued commitment to and support for the men and women of the Department of Defense. Thank you for your time and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Mr. No. Admiral Paparo, you're recognized. Chairman, ranking member and distinguished members of the committee. Thanks so much for the chance to appear before the committee to to discuss the Indo-acific region.
▶ 0:37:37Uh first with me over my right shoulder is United States Indo-acific command senior enlisted leader, Fleet Master Chief Dave Isim, who is retiring after 38 years of selfless service as a Navy Seal and special operator.
▶ 0:37:52uh indispensable to any commander, this senior enlisted leader uh is in charge of uh of uh key duties uh involving a region that spans over 50% of the globe, four of the five of the world's major threats and most of the world's much of the world's economic activity. Roughly 50% of the US military's operational forces falls under his charge.
▶ 0:38:17And as all know the non-commissioned officer corps is one of the joint forc's absolute asymmetric advantages. Fleet master chief is leadership in this critical duty has been exemplary. I honor his service. He has been indispensable to me and making the transition as the commander for the last year and this summer. Uh having bid farewell to Master Chief Isim will welcome Marine Sergeant Major Eric Cook to this post.
▶ 0:38:46Indoaccom faces a confluence of challenges. Foremost among them is China's increasingly aggressive and assertive behavior. their unprecedented military modernization encompassing advancements in artificial intelligence, hypersonics, space-based capabilities, uh, among others, poses a real and serious threat to our homeland, to our allies, and to our partners.
▶ 0:39:13In 2024, the People's Liberation Army demonstrated growing capabilities through persistent pressure operations against Taiwan, escalating by 300%. China's aggressive military actions near Taiwan are, as the chairman said, not just exercises. They are rehearsals.
▶ 0:39:32And while the PLA attempts to intimidate the people of Taiwan and demonstrate coercive capability, these actions backfire, drawing increased global attention and accelerating Taiwan's own defensive preparations. North Korea's development of advanced nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, including a new intercontinental ballistic missile capable of reaching the United States, poses a direct threat to our homeland and to our allies.
▶ 0:39:59Further, as discussed, North Korea's deepening its relationship with Russia, receiving military support and assistance to advance its own military capabilities. Russia's growing military cooperation with China adds another layer of complexity creating a compounding challenge with the deepening cooperation between China, Russia and North Korea.
▶ 0:40:22US Indopaccom deters threats to the regional stability in competition and in crisis while ensuring the ability to prevail in conflict. That ability to prevail is indispensable to deterrence. In 2024, the command conducted 120 joint exercises. Among them, 20 major joint exercises across the region, including allies and partners, demonstrating our capability and our combined capacity.
▶ 0:40:51We continue to strengthen relationships with Japan, South Korea, Australia, Republic of the Philippines, India, Taiwan, the Azion nations, the Pacific Island countries, and European partners in Indoaccom, including the United Kingdom and France. Multiple groupings such as the Quad and trilateral arrangements further enhance our capabilities.
▶ 0:41:15We must strive for dominance in space and across the information environment, including cyber, leveraging capabilities to counter command and control, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and targeting. This in enables the command to gain a nonlinear advantage over potential adversaries.
▶ 0:41:36And while the scale of the of our effort is substantial, the ability to master information is absolutely paramount to projecting power and safeguarding our interests. To maintain credible deterrence, US Indopaccom requires sustained investment in counter C5 ISRNT, in fires, in integrated air and missile defense, in force sustainment, and as discussed in autonomous and artificial intelligence-driven system, and
▶ 0:42:07all all under greater ability to man to uh maintain domain awareness. As the most consequential opponent, China poses real and serious challenges to our military superiority. But this also presents opportunities for reform and for establishing enduring advantage. While P Indoaccom faces significant challenges, I do remain confident in our deterrence posture and the ability to defend US interests and maintain regional stability. But the trajectory must change.
▶ 0:42:38China is outproducing the United States in air, maritime, missile capability and accelerating their space and counterpace capabilities. Though we face serious challenges, the joint force remains confident, resolute, and determined to prevail. Deterrence remains our highest duty. Thank you for your continued support for Indopaccom. Together, we advance the security, freedom, and prosperity of the American people and our allies and partners. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you, Admiral General Brunson. You're recognized.
▶ 0:43:08Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. I'm honored to sit alongside Mr. No and Admiral Paparo here in the first of my posture hearings, uh, the first of what I hope to be many more in the future. I would like to thank a moment to thank take a moment to thank you all for your continued and steadfast leadership and support to service members, the civilians that serve alongside us and their families.
▶ 0:43:37I'd also like to thank you especially for your continued assistance to those soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and guardians who are serving in Korea. I'd be remiss if I failed to recognize and give my condolences publicly to the family of a Republic of Korea special operations soldier who lost his life in a freef fall parachute accident yesterday. It's a reminder that there is a high cost associated with wearing the cloth of our respective nations.
▶ 0:44:05In my career, every opportunity I've had to lead our nation's men and women has been an honor. And it's a privilege to serve alongside our allies, partners, and friends as we work together to to further our shared interest, strengthen our ties, and further security, freedom, and prosperity in all our nations. The Korean Peninsula is directly linked to the national interest of the United States.
▶ 0:44:29What happens in this vital region has a direct impact on American families, businesses, and our nation's future. For over 75 years, we've invested our national treasure in the region. Northeast Asia is a region critical to US national security and a region where recent authoritarian collusion between China, Russia, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and Iran has intensified. It's a region of emergent challenges.
▶ 0:44:57However, there are also undeniable opportunities because our interconnected world grows closer and closer. Any military actions that would occur on the Korean Peninsula would have worldwide and potentially global impacts.
▶ 0:45:15One of the things that we're looking at presently is an ability to continue to partner alongside others like those in UN command, those 18 nations that make up that command to continue to build partnerships which will strengthen not only our capacity in the region but also be an indicator of our resolve therein.
▶ 0:45:35In 2024, DPRK focused on advancing their cruise missile and hypersonic glide vehicle research and development programs, launching some 47 ballistic missiles with one failed satell satellite launch attempt. Kim Jong-un also had two highly publicized visits to his nuclear sites, clearly conveying an intent to advance his nuclear weapons capabilities.
▶ 0:45:59Over the past year and a half, DPRK has exported munitions and troop support to Russia, demonstrating an ability to not only provide for another conflict, but to continue advancing their domestic capabilities. In the coming year, we expect DPRK to further develop hypersonic and multiple in independently targetable re-entry vehicle MV capabilities to complete his eighth party Congress goals. At present, he's sitting at five of seven obtained.
▶ 0:46:28Kim Jong-un's leadership has shifted from focus on reunification to declaring his own sovereignty. This change is evidenced by the hardening of the southern border, the rejection of reunification discussions, and the destruction of reunification monuments and buildings along the joint security area.
▶ 0:46:47DPRK continues to build its nuclear weapons program and boast a Russian equipment augmented modernized military force of over 1.3 million To contrast that, I would like to mention the rock US Japan alliance. Our trilateral efforts along with those other nations within the United Nations Command have woven together an integrated regional defense posture.
▶ 0:47:12Together, we've achieved new levels of interoperability and theaterwide combined joint all-main exercises and training. Our presence in Korea demonstrates American strength. It imposes cost and deters military aggression by our adversaries. The Iraq US alliance remains the lynch pin of security in Northeast Asia. I'm committed to working with you to ensure the continued security, freedom, and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and a free and open Indoacific.
▶ 0:47:41Thank you and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, General Brunson. I recognize myself first for questions. Uh, Admiral Paparro, how does the growing cop cooperation between China, Russia, and North Korea present challenges in your area of operations? Chairman, each country u compensates for the others weaknesses. In this case, it's it's uh quite transactional and there's a matter of symbiosis among it.
▶ 0:48:10So in for example uh China has produced has provided 70% of the machine tools and 90% of the semiconductors that support Russia's rebuilding its war machine. Uh North Korea provides uh as discussed thousands of rounds in support and troops and coming back to China and to North Korea are key capabilities where they would otherwise be behind that would help close the gap.
▶ 0:48:39submarine technology, missile technology and uh and surfaceto-air missiles and so forth. This is a transactional symbiosis that that uh poses a serious challenge. Great. General Brunson, what does the US gain from our presence on the Korean Peninsula? And if if in fact your tri command of US, South Korea, and UN forces didn't exist, what would it cost us to reestablish that kind of foothold uh on the Asian continent?
▶ 0:49:09Chairman, as you know that uh that'll be truly a matter of policy, but from my perspective, what I see is that we've got positional advantage currently. Um we've had experience. You asked us in your opening to to sort of highlight these things in regard to our experiences. And I can say that honestly, uh having been a special operations joint task force commander in Iraq one year, I found myself on a FOB that I had been on as a battalion commander six years before. and we don't want that same condition.
▶ 0:49:39I think what we have to recognize is that the way that we are organized, the way that we posture ourselves in the region, we ought not seek credit for it, but we ought to uh at least acknowledge the fact that we're in all the places that we need to be. Capacities aside, the capabilities that are resident within the KTO presently are right where they need to be. my military assessment.
▶ 0:50:00I think that decisions will be made in the future, but just getting back in there and what we might be able to provide again in terms of protection and sustainment, which we're able to do across uh the globe, I think is important. Great. Admiral Paparo, how can the US accelerate the delivery of US weapons to improve Taiwan self-defense? Uh how will the Taiwan Security Cooperation Initiative authorized by the FY25 NDAA help us deliver these needed capabilities to Taiwan?
▶ 0:50:31Chairman, uh key is to um eliminate remove bureaucratic uh in some cases um bureaucratic limitations in order to do so. uh liberalizing the supply bases, certifying supply bases, a steady flow of uh of uh funds in order to fund those capabilities and downstream uh long lead item matters would uh greatly enhance our ability to produce its speed.
▶ 0:50:58And do you think that would have a deterrent effect on China's perceived uh I opportunities? Sir, I think it gains three to five to one leverage for for every capability that we provide in defense. Great. Thank you. With that, I yield to the ranking member for his questions. Thank you.
▶ 0:51:17Sort of building on that last question, Admiral Paparo and General Bronad, as I mentioned in my opening statement, what what capabilities, just focusing for the moment on what the US could do, do you most need um do you think would be most have the most deterrent effect? Uh I know obviously everyone wants more ships, more planes, more everything, but if you could, you know, narrow it down to here are some of the most crucial things that could help you. Um just focusing on US needs to deter if both of you could give us an answer on that.
▶ 0:51:47Rank and member, the most critical need to focus on is our counter C5 ISR&T capability, which gives us freedom to maneuver, freedom to operate at lower risk throughout the area of responsibility, secure communications basically. uh the ability to dazzle, deceive, destroy the adversar's ability to see and sense and then hardening our own ability to give a highfidelity common operating picture to units to unlock their ability to operate tactically. Yeah.
▶ 0:52:17Any any piece of that in particular where you see the greatest need right now? Understanding that I I'll ask you this in the classified session as well and get into more detail. Posture hearings are different this year. We haven't got the budget yet, so it's a little little weird. But as we lead up to the budget, it hopefully will come in about a month. What would be most important to be in there to meet that need?
▶ 0:52:38leveraging the United States's ability having 90% of the space lift in the world to bring counterpace capability and then to continue to uh enhance our cyber capability uh and you know many others in the form of long range weapons in the form of uh unmanned and AI systems that affect air denial and sea denial in enclosed places such as the Taiwan Strait augment these Yeah. Um I'm just gonna ask this. So, General Hawk got fired.
▶ 0:53:07He's the head of NSA cyber. How has that impacted your ability to work with NSA and cyber on those very critical issues that you just outlined? I say, um, we're ready to work with, uh, whatever competent individual is, uh, is in place and, uh, we'll continue to try to enhance that ability. Did you think General Hawk was a competent individual who you could work with? Yes. General Brunson, on the on the first question about uh capabilities, what what would you most need in your command?
▶ 0:53:37Sir, as I as I had the opportunity to mention yesterday in the in the hackd closed session, uh all my requests are inhabited within the of Indopaccom. I would tell you that as I look at the more ephemeral domains of cyber, EW, and space, I'm looking to be engaged in those more in a more wholesome manner. And I think that that's where we can talk in closed about some of those particular capabilities that we need to bring to bear on the peninsula.
▶ 0:54:05But uh to an earlier question that you mentioned uh ranking member, I'd like to say that you know if we were trying to project strength, one of the things that we're continuing to work on right now is the assailable flank that is uh United Nations Command. There are 18 total nations there.
▶ 0:54:22And so I see the KTO as being a bit wider and being able to leverage those other nations in the Republic of Korea and beyond is a way for us to continue to sort of underpin the things that we're doing on the peninsula with legitimacy. I'm running out of that's really important. I want to get to that, but I want to ask Mr. No those questions. So as I mentioned in my opening statement, we are alienating every single partner in the region. And you made the statement, you know, America first doesn't mean America alone. I'm puzzled.
▶ 0:54:51what what what are we doing to enhance relationships? I think we've all seen on display what we're doing to sort of make those relationships more problematic, but what is the administration doing to try to strengthen partnerships when they're launching a trade war against all of our Uh, Ranking Member Smith, so as you know, Secretary Hex uh just came back from his first trip to the Indoacific where he visited uh both the Philippines and Japan.
▶ 0:55:18he had a chance to reaffirm our commitment to those important alliances with what is that commitment? I mean, we can all go on vacation to Japan and say how much we love the country. Um, but what is that commitment? Because there doesn't seem to be any commitment other than threats and bullying. It's reaffirming our commitment, our treaty obligations to both the Philippines and Japan.
▶ 0:55:41uh he announced a number of things that the department is currently doing to work with both the Philippines and Japan to accelerate and strengthen our relationships uh in the Philippines. For example, uh uh he made an announcement about bilateral soft uh I'm sorry, special operations forces training that we're conducting. Just one last question.
▶ 0:56:00How much damage do you think the trade war that has just been launched does to all of what you just Ranking member Smith, in all the engagements and the personal engagements I've had, in all the engagements that I've seen, the secretary uh uh has had uh our relationships with our allies and partners in the region are strong and remain strong. It's this only started a couple days ago, so we'll see where it goes. I yield back. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 0:56:28Thank the ranking member chair and I recognize gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Whitman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to thank our witnesses for joining us. Thanks again for the incredible job that you all are doing. And Emma Parro, I want to begin with you. You talked about the importance of ship building, but very specifically ship building in certain areas. We have a distinct asymmetric advantage under the sea. Can you give us a perspective about what that looks like in relation to what we have as that advantage versus what the Chinese have, what they're building uh in in relation to what we have?
▶ 0:56:58Secondly, too, is that uh we know that the Marine Corps is going to be the standin force there in the Indoacific. They're going to be the tip of the spear, have that ability to make sure that they're the crisis response team. The challenge for us today is we don't have enough amphibious ships, and the ones that we do have have an operational availability of 41%. So when your call goes out, the challenge is is can it be met?
▶ 0:57:22Because today today we cannot put together an amphibious ready group uh Marine Corps expeditionary unit, better known as an arc mute. Can't do it. We we can put a single ship out there, but we can't put the complement of ships that we need for an arc mute. Can you tell me uh where are we in relation to the need for getting to that 2.33 submarines a year for AUS and ourselves? Why that's important?
▶ 0:57:45And then what do you see as your alternative in a crisis response if when you call for an argu there is not one to be had? Thank you sir. Great to see you again. Presently we have a generational advantage from a submarine standpoint against uh against our adversaries and this is key critical and indispensable to the ability to prevail.
▶ 0:58:11Uh the PRC uh though not perfectly linear but the PRC is outproducing uh the United States by a rate of 2.0 per year. Yeah. To 1.28 presently attack submarines per year.
▶ 0:58:25Um required to get there are continued investments in defense industrial base liberalizing the long leadtime uh supply chains uh and giving a steady flow of funding on the marine standin forces and on amphibious ships. Amphibious ships are absolutely critical to this effort and uh we are not meeting mission uh globally on doing so.
▶ 0:58:52It's a matter of the maintenance of the current capability that we have and frankly it's also a matter of the number of amphibious ships that we have. So the ops analysis does not lie um on that uh does not lie on that matter. Very good. Thank you. Let me then move from that. You talk about the need for us to get above the 1.28 production. That's not only to meet our requirements but also to fulfill the obligations we made under AIS to make sure we have that partnership. partnerships are incredibly important in that region.
▶ 0:59:22We talk about AUS, but we also talk about the quad agreement. Can you give us your sense about are there any barriers that are standing in the way for us to fully operationalize AUS, whether it's pillar one or pillar two and all the opportunities that are there for us with the quad. We see what our adversaries are doing and trying to create more relationships there. Um, we have to do more at the pace of relevance to make sure we have substantive outcomes of these agreements.
▶ 0:59:50Can you give us a perspective about where you see things and what we need to do to accelerate that? August pillar one operationally we are meeting every milestone. The biggest risk driver to August pillar one is getting to that production rate. Yeah. By the time that Australia purchases its own Virginia class submarine. Uh that is the greatest barrier that I see uh right now presently.
▶ 1:00:13uh on the uh on uh pillar two the other uh capabilities uh missiles and uh unmanned and cyber u on this case uh the biggest barrier are barriers to our administrative and bureaucratic barriers to co-production co-production among our partners not just our office partners but all of our partners would greatly enhance our missile magazines for all of us would you say that ITAR currently has been uh modified
▶ 1:00:43enough to open the door for uh for pillar 2 because I know as we talked to the Australians uh they are not very happy with still the impediments with ITAR. I would agree with them. Okay, very good. Let me ask are are there are there other ways that we can get the most out of technological cooperation with our friends not just there uh with AUS but also with the Quad where there's great opportunities with India and more opportunities with Japan. give give us your perspective on that. Yes.
▶ 1:01:13Uh that multilateral India, Japan, the United States and Australia. um that is critical and it's growing and we've seen some progress also with co-production among us and we see some progress on exercises but again um our uh our limits to co-production and speeding up the uh speeding up our ability to release key technologies to our partners under conditions of trust and under the scrutiny of trust that
▶ 1:01:43leads that leads us to do so with confidence will enhance that effort gentleman's times expired chair and I recognize gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney. Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for, uh, your testimony this morning. Again, at the outset, I just would note on Saturday, the 24th Virginia class submarine was commissioned into the Navy. There are four more that are coming online uh, between now and the end of uh, 2026. Uh, so, you know, there's no question that the the cadence is not where it should be.
▶ 1:02:11But if you look at tonnage and again if you look at the fact that postco uh the the the the yards are recovering. We just had the new secretary of the navy uh at Quansa Point on uh Friday who uh again got an Eiffel in terms of just uh the the chaka block um activity that's going on there.
▶ 1:02:29Um so just to go back to AUS for a second uh Admiral this committee in record time enacted all the authorities in 2023 per optimal pathway to get again that uh engaged. There still is a in my opinion a misperception that AUS is primarily about just helping Australia. Can you talk a little bit about what it means in terms of the US as far as making our nation safer and also the Indoacific uh safer?
▶ 1:03:00Yes. Um, AUS delivers something to Indopaccom that is critical and could be a key advantage and that is a uh an Indian Ocean submarine base. Uh, this gives us uh faster response time to the South China Sea than in Hawaii, in Washington, in San Diego. It gives us the key ability to maneuver uh into the Indian Ocean without the burden of having to go through straits. And so it's it is key.
▶ 1:03:27And then uh Australia is making key investments in the submarine industrial base. As I utter these words, there are 11 Australians stationed on attack boats uh in Hawaii and uh scores that are working in the Pearl Harbor shipyard. Uh these are just but a few of their contributions.
▶ 1:03:44And again the plan is also to have the rotation of uh Virginia's starting in 2027 I believe in Henderson in in Western Australia which again they are making huge investments uh in terms of the infrastructure that's necessary uh for that effort. Um you know one of the authorities Mr. No, that we um enacted visav AUS was to we had actually pass a law to allow Australia to invest $3 billion into our industrial base.
▶ 1:04:11It was such a novel extraordinary uh component of the optimal pathway that we actually as I said had to uh change uh the Treasury Department's rules to accept that money. As you I think should know um the defense minister from Australia in his visit with uh Mr. Hegsth brought the first check for a half billion dollars which was deposited uh in the US uh treasury. And to follow up Mr.
▶ 1:04:38Smith's question regarding um you know the trade war that's happening right now. Australia uh has a free trade agreement with the US. They the there are zero tariffs on US goods that come into Australia. As Adam said, there's a 2:1 uh trade surplus from the US into uh Australia. They're putting money into our industrial base. And yet we are tariffing Australia at the same level as the country of Iran.
▶ 1:05:06And I I will tell you that in you know maybe you've had sort of conversations where this hasn't come up. Uh that's not the case for some of us who um you know are in touch with members of parliament uh in Australia. There is definitely collateral damage um to our allies in terms of what's happening out there and the picture that was in the news the other day of representatives from the South Korean government and the uh and Japan shaking hands with China to announce a new
▶ 1:05:36um effort by those countries. I mean we are just pushing people in the wrong direction uh in this part of the world and we need more from you in terms of just what is the department's position in terms of advising the white house about the fact that this is driving um our allies in the wrong direction. Congressman, on the issue of tariffs, I mean that that's an issue that's uh beyond the purview of my personal position to comment on.
▶ 1:06:05It's it's not something the Department of Defense uh focuses on, but you mentioned the $500 million contribution that Australia made. I was there when Secretary Hexath met with Deputy Prime Minister Mars. We were grateful and we are grateful for the contribution Australia is making. That's part of a a larger $3 billion uh investment into our submarine industrial base.
▶ 1:06:28Secretary Hexath said at that meeting uh there's more that needs to be done uh to increase our I have just a few seconds left. I mean, this is an all of government situation and you cannot stovepipe the Department of Defense in terms of just what's happening with other parts of the administration and and this trade war, as I said, is driving our allies in the wrong direction and we need to stop it. I yield back. Gentleman's time is expired. Chair and I recognize gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Mr.
▶ 1:06:58Chairman, and I want to thank each of you for your service. It's humbling to be in your presence and what a difference you make and uh how important it is uh where we are today uh sadly in a conflict we did not choose and that is dictators with rule of gun invading democracies with rule of law and what we can do to deter and that's uh your field and we saw sadly uh dictator war criminal Putin to invade uh Ukraine on February 24th 2022 uh under the
▶ 1:07:28theory that Ukraine doesn't exist Uh then we know that the puppets of Iran invaded uh Israel on October 7, 2023 under the theory that Israel doesn't exist from the river to the sea. But it's just so important that we be as strong as we can for peace through strength to deter the Chinese Communist Party that claims of course Taiwan does not exist. There's a parallel there and it's before us. And so what you're doing is just so important.
▶ 1:07:55And with that in mind, I want to thank all of you for your service. And I had the opportunity last year uh to have my third visit in the Republic of Korea to visit at Camp Humphrey's. Uh what a world-class facility that is. It was I was there when the groundbreaking occurred and then to go back and see this facility, a 10.8 billion investment, 90% paid for by the very appreciative people of the Republic of Korea.
▶ 1:08:24And the American people need to know that nearly nine almost 10 billion dollars was spent by the people of Korea uh to appreciate having an American presence there which is a deterrence uh to the uh maniac uh that's in charge of um Pyongyang.
▶ 1:08:42Keeping that in mind, I visited with troops from South Carolina and it's just so important that uh we remain ironclad in supporting the people of Korea with the instability of indeed the regime in Pyongyang and we have 28,000 troops uh in Korea uh and the message of that is uh to protect uh Korea of course but uh Japan uh all of our interests in the Pacific which are so critical and with that uh indeed General Brunson
▶ 1:09:12I'm very grateful myself that I'm the only member of Congress who's actually been to Pyongyang. I was on a delegation in 2003 and uh and so I saw again firsthand uh the oppression of the people of North Korea and and how sad that is.
▶ 1:09:28And but Kim Jong-un has laid out a plan to advance missile technology of North Korea and he's proceeding with this year eight ballistic missiles uh that are being uh developed uh that possibly could reach the United States.
▶ 1:09:44Uh with that in mind and we also know the increasing relationship between North Korea and War Criminal Putin uh with North Korea sending troops uh to uh kill Ukrainians uh with the uh technology that indeed uh war criminal Putin is providing to uh North Korea for ultimately the ability to attack the United States.
▶ 1:10:08With this in mind and the strengthening ties with War Colonel Putin and the Chinese Communist Party, General, what actions can we take to minimize the risk? Congressman, thank you for the question. As a son of a Sard major, retired from Manning, South Carolina, I appreciate this question today. The first thing I'd like to say is that the Korean people are incredibly resilient as uh noted in uh the the constitutional crisis that was occurring recently now resolved.
▶ 1:10:38Expect a new uh presidential election on the 3rd of June. Uh they also provide for us, as you mentioned, an environment wherein we can build readiness across the joint force. And I've seen that in the short 90 days that I've been in command, whether it be Marines coming or a carrier strike group coming to the peninsula. And so those things are absolutely sound and and I thank the Korean people for what they provide for us. As Admiral Proparo mentioned, uh the things are are going there.
▶ 1:11:08We can see it very well. We can see, we can sense, we can understand, we can track, we can even target uh things that are going. We do not however but we can see that what's most important as Admiral Paparo said is what's coming back the technological development that they're able to almost cut in half in terms of developing the ballistic missile technology to develop uh air vehicles for their uh their missiles all those things that they're getting back in terms of the ability to jam in uh in the West Sea which has now made that a contested
▶ 1:11:38area. I think that's what we keep our eyes on and we deter that by continuing to bring those strategic assets to bear in the KTO and I'm grateful to see a son of Clarendon County do well and Admiral just a point I want to uh I appreciate Donald Trump naming the Indoaccom and I appreciate every effort made to work with our uh defense allies uh of India what a great ally they can be and particularly with the development of an industrial base of their own not to be depending
▶ 1:12:08war criminal Putin for inferior gentleman's time expired chair now recognize gentleman from California Mr. Garmindy uh thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you for your opening remarks as well as ranking member Smith about this set of issues um I'm going to very quickly Mr. N your response to um my colleague Courtney was totally inadequate. It was wrong.
▶ 1:12:32You've got to send back to the secretary that the trade war significantly diminishes our power throughout the world. To do anything other than to send that message back is simply a dereliction of your duties as an acting assistant secretary. So be aware. last night. Uh it appears as though Trump's tariff war seems to be at least in part a gambit to open negotiations with individual countries.
▶ 1:13:02His message last night to the was to open those negotiations with this message. Kiss my ass. You might ask the secretary just how well will that work in maintaining good relationships that are absolutely essential in the Pacific. Don't expect a response, but I expect you to do your job.
▶ 1:13:30Send the message back that these negotiations, this trade war is a very serious challenge toward the Indo-Pacific region and other parts of the world. Now, from my perspective, uh, this approach to addressing China is reckless and misusing our national instruments of power. So, Admiral Parto, let's talk about the Pacific Islands.
▶ 1:14:01Are they important in your strategies in the Pacific? Congressman, just as in the Second World War, the Pacific Island countries, Guadal Canal, uh throughout the Indopacific to Bora Bora are important as well. And that's why the People's Republic of China has uh efforts of elite capture of uh the attempted partnership with their security apparatuses and so on history, on geography, and on interests. They're quite important. Good.
▶ 1:14:31Uh we're mi are we missing the opportunities uh with the u trashing of USID uh and also not using the Coast Guard to full effect in the Pacific Islands.
▶ 1:14:47The USA ID aid is under review and I'll be advocating most strongly for that aid uh for uh for all of the countries and the Coast Guard provides a critical role in the South Pacific and that is uh counter lawfare counter illicit trafficking counter illegal illicit and unre and unregulated uh fishing and those are key advantages. The Coast Guard is uniquely capable of doing that and they've done a wonderful job for us. Are they available 365 24/7?
▶ 1:15:19Presently they're on on another task. Uh but uh and and we're compensating for that with appropriate naval capabilities and air capabilities, but they are quite they are quite critical to that mission. I'm told it cost about $140 million to have a Coast Guard cutter available operating in the Pacific Islands. Is that an investment that you're willing to make from the uh Pacific Defense Initiative? Yes, sir.
▶ 1:15:50Thank you. I appreciate the direct response. 140 million. Um there's also issues of uh basing uh relationships with various ports in the Pacific. Uh will you be using the defense initiative to enhance those facilities that are necessary for the Navy as well as for the Coast Guard? Yes, sir. Those bases, places, the airfields, the ports, the peers um are absolutely critical.
▶ 1:16:19They're key to our principles of expanded maneuver that enables us to put geography to work to deter and if necessary to win. Good. I don't think I'll go back to the fact that we are imposing tariffs on islands that do not have any exports to the United States, but that's another silly, sloppy piece of work that the administration is doing with regard to the tariff issue.
▶ 1:16:43Um, I want to uh spend a few moments logistics. Uh, the support of the Navy. Some of this came up with the military ships, the ANIBs. Could you talk to us about the necessity of transcom and non-kinetic ships providing support in the Pacific? The combat logistics. I think we're going to take that in writing. My time is expired. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Thank the gentleman.
▶ 1:17:12Chair now recognize gentleman from Tennessee, Dr. Deja. Thank you, Chairman. Admiral Paparo. Uh, good to see you. You noted that PLA activity around Taiwan jumped 300% last year, including what you described as dress rehearsals uh for potential invasion. What indicators are you watching most closely to assess whether those rehearsals are moving towards actual preparations for imminent conflict? We watch the transloading of equipment, of personnel, of ordinance.
▶ 1:17:42Uh we look deeper into some of the uh non-military instruments of national power for the People's Republic of China in order to gain back strategic and operational warning to give us early leverage uh to position a force to respond to conflict. Okay.
▶ 1:17:59And uh you've spoken publicly about Hellscape plan to deter invasions through unmanned systems and you were very generous with your time on Kodell Kelly in February at your headquarters in laying that out in great detail in in open source. Can you walk us through how this fits into your broader deterrence framework and how we're helping ensure Taiwan is investing in the right capabilities to make this concept viable? Yes, sir.
▶ 1:18:28As discussed in the Black Sea, there are spaces where where the force need not gain air superiority or maritime superiority, but just deny it to the other uh at low human cost. And this is the essence of hellscape undersea, unmanned uh undersea vehicles, unmanned surface vehicles, unmanned air air systems and loitering munitions.
▶ 1:18:54uh summing those, operating them within one common command and control framework uh to be able to put them to that best use and uh Taiwan for that matter is also making those investments and those investments are and must be aligned to the investments that we're making. Good. Thank you. And Admiral, last week the US and Chinese military officials held their first working level maritime security talk since the start of this administration.
▶ 1:19:20Can you update the committee on how these conversations went and how you see their value in the current environment? Both sides were very direct. uh they were conducted professionally and uh we lodged um several uh inputs into the discussions about unsafe unprofessional behavior, the deployment of flares in front of our partner nations uh vehicles and uh and I should say uh
▶ 1:19:50aircraft uh dangerous maneuvers around uh around ships and it's an important dialogue that we had and uh I feel confident that the uh people's Republic of China caught the message. Okay. And you touched on this briefly with Mr. Whitman, but just a little deeper dive. We often hear that alliances are asymmetric advantage, and I agree with that in principle, but how do we ensure that those relationships main net contributors to deterrence rather than creating dependencies?
▶ 1:20:18And what have you already seen that would you that you would like to see over the next year or two that would signal they are stepping up in the face of the PLA greater investment in their own defense from a standpoint of uh of uh percentage of their uh GDP their gross domestic product as an indicator uh acquiring the right systems that are interoperable among all of the partners and of course there's uh Australia's historic uh investment in
▶ 1:20:48AUS and the United Kingdom I might also add there is uh there's Japan's investment in a counter strike capability with the acquisition of 400 Tomahawk land attack missiles. These are some of the examples of how uh this is operationalized. Are there gaps that we still need to fill to close and make those efforts more strategically impactful? There are always gaps because we're never satisfied with how ready we are.
▶ 1:21:15But uh yes, we have to uh speed up our ability to uh co-produce capabilities. We have to speed up the bureaucratic uh barriers uh to executing those faster. and we must reform the industrial base so that those capabilities deliver on time. Thank you, sir. And with that, I will yield back. Thank the gentleman for yielding. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Molton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 1:21:41Co, you said in your testimony that stronger alliances is what this team is delivering. Are alliances with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam, Australia, the Philippines, and India included in your stronger alliances? Are those important allies for us in the Uh, Congressman, absolutely.
▶ 1:22:01So, you're raising tariffs 24% on Japan, 25% on South Korea, 32% on Taiwan, 36% on Thailand, 46% on Vietnam, only 10% on Australia, 18% in the Philippines, and 26% on India. How do these tariffs strengthen our alliances? Well, Congressman, uh, as I said before, the issue of, uh, tariffs is, uh, beyond perview of, uh, my Oh, so it doesn't matter. You don't think our allies care about tariffs?
▶ 1:22:30You seem to care about our allies and the relationship we have with them. You don't think tariffs have any influence on that? Congressman, I've had multiple engagements, personal engagements with allies and partners. Does weakening our allies economies help our alliance? All the engagements that I've had that I've seen the secretary have with his counterparts lead me to believe that our alliances and partnerships are in a very that they like the tariffs that it's a good move. It strengthens our alliances. Is that what you're saying, Mr. Co?
▶ 1:22:58Uh our our alliances and partnerships are in a very strong place. These tariffs are also going to raise prices for American consumers, including American troops. Will this be good for your soldiers, General Brunson? Do they have a lot of extra disposable income to Congressman, in answer to the extra disposable income, I've got two college-aged daughters that I'm still putting through college and a 15year-old at home.
▶ 1:23:25I don't know that disposable income is what I would look at here. Admiral Po, when the terrorists raise the prices that your sailors and marines pay at the commissaries for groceries, the PX, whatever, does that is that good for your sailors and marines? Higher prices. Higher prices. Higher prices will hurt our service members. Mr. No, you mentioned that. I appreciate the direct answer. Thank you. Mr.
▶ 1:23:50No, you mentioned that Secretary Hegsth recently traveled to the region to reaffirm our commitment to our allies. Is South Korea one of those important allies? Uh South Korea is a very important ally. uh in in his call several weeks ago with this. But I wonder if the reason why you have to reaffirm those alliances is because of this trade war the president has started.
▶ 1:24:15But regardless of that, can you explain how pulling out Patriot batteries from South Korea demonstrates that commitment? Uh Congressman, we face a very uh dangerous uh security environment. Uh the department Yes. in the Indoacific, which is your number one priority. So why are you pulling Patriot batteries out of South Korea to send them to the Middle East? I thought that China was the pacing threat. Disagree with that.
▶ 1:24:42Congressman, the department will continue to address threats as General Brunson. Is it helpful to you in South Korea and your alliance with the South Koreans to pull out a Patriot battery? Congressman, if I could be given just a second to explain the way we handled that. No, I don't want to know. I just want to know if it's helpful or not. I don't want an explanation. I just want an answer. And it would be helpful if you could give direct answers like Admiral Paparo. Admiral Paparo, back to you.
▶ 1:25:04I recently heard from a commanding officer under your command, expressing frustration and disgust over Secretary Hegsth's illegal disclosure of top secret targeting information detailing when American pilots would be over enemy enemy territory on an unclassified platform that we know is targeted by our adversaries, including China. I've never heard from this commander about an issue like this before. He seemed concerned about the example that this sets for our You have to make rapid operational decisions.
▶ 1:25:33Do you use signal chats to discuss operational plans and other classified information? No. Congressman, do you allow sailors under your command to keep their jobs when they knowingly disclose classified information? No, sir. Do you criminally prosecute people under your command who knowingly illegally disclose top secret information upon which the lives of our pilots depend? We would if we encountered that. Do you allow your sailors and marines to drink on the job? No, sir.
▶ 1:26:04Admiral Paparo, I assume you expect accountability from your commander. Secretary Hegsth said accountability is back at DoD. When you instill accountability in your subordinates, do you advise them to lie about the disclosure of classified information? No, sir. I expect integrity. Mr. No, you talked about restoring the warrior ethos. is part of the warrior ethos disclosing top secret information and then lying about doing so. Uh, yes or no? Is that part of the warrior ethos? You were in the army.
▶ 1:26:34Is that what the army taught you? And congressman, there is Yes or no? Did the army teach you that, Mr. N? Gentleman's time's expired. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Mississippi. Mr. My guess is no. Mr. Kelly, it's unfortunate that this committee, which has always been bipartisan, uh this is a ways and mean tariffs and those things, but I'm going to address some. Uh is being a weak and feckless leader, does that make you more respected by your allies and partners?
▶ 1:27:02And I won't I I don't expect an answer, but I can tell you we live through four years of a weak and feckless and and and non-existent leader. And and I'm trying to remember whether or not Russia invaded Ukraine under President Trump or whether he invaded under a weak and feckless Biden. I'm trying to remember over the last four years whether China has become more aggressive or less aggressive.
▶ 1:27:27And I I know for a fact that they've become more aggressive because weakness invites bullies to attack. I will talk about tariffs just a little bit. is appeasement. Giving everyone everything that they want at your expense. That is not a partnership. That is not a partnership.
▶ 1:27:51Uh I'm reminded in 2017 when President Trump said NATO needs to pay their 2% fair share. And I remember the same kind of reactions across the aisle. Oh my god, how dare we ask our allies. They're going to hate us. They're going to get away. But if you if you look back now, they have increased their ability to defend themselves and to help us defend them in NATO.
▶ 1:28:17I will tell you that tariffs being taken advantage of is not how we become strong leaders in the community. Giving your kids everything they want is not good parenting. It is not about likability. It is about respect.
▶ 1:28:34And so with that said, Admiral Papara in the Indo in the Indoaccom is arguably the most consequential theater of this this century specifically as it pertains to fuel both in the air and on the sea. Uh are there gaps? Are there things that we can do as far as air and and and sea in fuel delivery? Yes sir. There are gaps in defense fueling support points.
▶ 1:29:00Those are those locations where uh aircraft and/or ships would uh load fuel and distribute fuel. There are shortfalls in our tanker fleet and keeping enough fuel in the case of a contingency and there are gaps in the combat logistics force in order to sustain the force and uh I'd like to work with the committee to identify those gaps. and Admiral Paparro.
▶ 1:29:23Uh we've talked about USAID, but another strength that we have is our state partnership program where our national guards partner with allies and partners in Indo Pacific. Are there any of those that are valuable or are there places where we need new ones? Everyone is highly valuable, sir, and uh indispensable to our capability. They build longlasting relationships and the continuity of the training that we execute.
▶ 1:29:51Um, I I will tell you there are no gaps partner to partner uh because of the uh just because of the good faith of the state partners and the good faith of the National Guard Bureau that assigns those. But there's always room for improvement uh everywhere because we can never be satisfied with good enough. We al we must al always strive for excellence.
▶ 1:30:15And I I want to address just a little bit because I also sit on the House Select Committee on Intelligence and uh and the signal chat while ill advised and I'll be the first to say that there there's no indication that any classified real-time information about strikes that are not specific in the location that would not be top secret information, would it?
▶ 1:30:34If it doesn't disclose location, time, systems, that would not be top secret unless it disclosed beforehand sources or methods or direct specific things that could be used. Is that correct to Admiral Paparo and General Brunson? Agreed, sir. Yes, sir. And Mr.
▶ 1:30:54know uh you've had a lot of hard questions and I hate to put y'all uh listen y'all are the secretary uh y'all work for the department of defense not uh the department of commerce or for the ways and means committee and tariffs but I want to ask you relationships Mr. know when we're looking for strength of partnerships and alliances. Are we looking at someone who just takes everything we gives them and gets mad when we want something back? Are we looking for mutually beneficial relationships with nations where we both can be more successful?
▶ 1:31:27Uh absolutely mutually beneficial relationships, Congressman. And do you agree under the Trump administration the last time and and this time also that he is striving to build relationships that are duly uh help both sides not just one side of the equation their side? Absolutely congressman. Okay. With that I yield back Mr. Chairman. Thank the gentleman chair I recognizes a gentle lady from Pennsylvania Miss Hulahan. Thank you uh very much for the conversation. Admiral Paparo.
▶ 1:31:56I read that you went to Villanova uh University which is just down the road from my district. Um and I want to actually don't even need to probably draw your attention to the recent earthquake in Myanmar. Um as some of the conversation earlier in our hearing talked about um USAD and the earthquake in Myanmar has claimed at least 2,000 lives that we know of and the US was very noticeably absent in terms of our response from USAD.
▶ 1:32:22no USA ID uh presence, no visible coordination or relief efforts even as China and Russia in fact stepped in to rescue people, children and elderly from collapsing building. Uh given that recent earthquake in Myanmar and the most likely uh fact that there will be other sorts of natural disasters such as these and and some that are not natural. Uh what should the DoD be doing? How does this impact our strategic posture um in the Indoacific region region?
▶ 1:32:50Should the DoD have a posture in place in the absence of USID to help provide resources in disasters such as these? Congresswoman, um thank you and thank you for the recognition of our home state. Uh yes, we are postured uh in places in certain uh locations with crisis response forces and in partnership with USAD. Uh there are key and critical stores that enable us to respond to these natural disasters.
▶ 1:33:19And the outcome of this is uh is an enhanced ability to gain access basing and overflight in combat. So I I happened to have been flying through Hawaii on our way to Australia when the Maui fires happened and the response was pretty uh forceful from our military because we were still waiting for FEMA to respond. This has to not be the most efficient way for our government to respond to natural disasters that happen for our own people and also for those around the world.
▶ 1:33:48there has to be uh a better way of doing that than to distract and deploy our military in those sorts of situations. Do you feel as though that might be the case? Uh as we do defense support to civil authorities uh stay side and as we do humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, the military is frequently a key and critical partner to our other government agencies to deliver this at first.
▶ 1:34:15uh but then as uh the aid organizations step in, we execute a graceful transfer of those capabilities to get back on our primary mission of deterrence. In many ways, I feel as though we're sort of inviting our adversaries into the region to take that place. Uh of course, the military will still be there. We still are America and we still care.
▶ 1:34:35But do you believe that we're also increasing the possibility of influence in the region from places like The People's Republic of China sees these opportunities and they seize them. My my final or my second to last question is uh for General Brunson. I'm going to quote an article from April 3rd military.com titled Army Planners Are Weighing Force Reductions of Up to 90,000 active duty soldiers.
▶ 1:35:05Are you aware of this article? No, ma'am. I'm not. I I would love to introduce that and if that's okay for the record without objections so ordered. Um it says that the military army planners are weighing reductions as a result of Secretary Hegs requirement to find 8% cuts. Um to your knowledge the picture is actually of a a live fire exercise in Indonesia. So it's specific to uh the conversation that we're having today.
▶ 1:35:34You're not aware of any conversations of any reduction in force of 90,000 army soldiers? No, ma'am. I'm not. I would love it if I might be able to follow up with you all and understand if there's any truth to this article because it is sort of alarming to me uh with what remains of my time, Mr. No, I I want to uh talk to you as well.
▶ 1:35:55Many of my colleagues have spoken to you about uh trade tariffs and yesterday we had a very similar conversation with your uh colleague uh who had a similar position in uh in Europe and I really was frustrated with her answers and I'm also frustrated with yours that there is not a whole of government understanding of the implications of tariff um being levied on our allies uh in the region and other nations in the region too.
▶ 1:36:22Is it really your position that this is not something that's yours to opine on or to talk about? Uh Congressman uh Congresswoman, yes. Uh tariffs is simply beyond purview of my position to but my understanding is that at the end of March, South Korea, China, and Japan had held an economic uh dialogue that that they agreed that they would work together now as a result of what the United States is levying upon them. Are you aware of that?
▶ 1:36:52Generally, his time's expired. And chair, and I recognize a gentleman from Nebraska, Mr. Bacon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate all three of you being here. And we got our hands full, the United States. We got China's the pacing threat, the long-term threat. They they want to be the regional hegeimon now, and they want to be the world superpower in the decades to come. But I would also submit that Russia is the near-term threat by its behavior with Ukraine severing cables, shooting down airliners, and then we also have Iran, the world's largest exporter of terror.
▶ 1:37:21And we have to deal with all three of these, which means we have to have the capabilities, but we also have to have close allies. I appreciate the job our our two fourstar generals are doing in the Pacific. I'm grateful to you. My first question is to Admiral Paparo. I was a 30-year electronic warfare uh guy in the Air Force. Uh I think we were dominant in the 1990s but we all had atrophy.
▶ 1:37:42Could you talk about the importance of EW in the in your theater but also the Air Force has funded 10 EA37s compass call aircraft which I used to fly the earlier version. I don't think that's adequate for your needs. So if you could talk about the importance of electronic warfare and the EA37. Thank you Congressman. Uh yes.
▶ 1:38:01Um as discussed our uh our um highest priority is counter command control communications and intelligence surveillance response and targeting and um electronic means whether that's through internet protocol that's through uh uh you know radio communications is the absolute lynch pin and to be able to target that can non-kinetically uh is uh is absolutely critical and uh I I couldn't agree more with our need to strive even harder
▶ 1:38:32to gain and to maintain dominance in that in those critical spectrum. Is 10 EA37s adequate? I'll have to get back to you on that. Uh but you're talking to somebody that's never satisfied with where we are. Well, I I have had some access to studies that I think pay Paycom needs 21. So, I'd like to make sure we can fund more couples call aircraft. So, so you have those capabilities. I was going to talk to you about attack submarines. But you've already done that.
▶ 1:39:02So let me pivot to the Ohio class SSGN. So we're going to they're aging out. They're going to be deactivated at 600 Tommahawks. When I visit with you in February, you're also pointing out some of the cruisers that are going to be deactivated. So can you talk about the gap that we're starting to build here and the impacts of losing these submarines and cruisers? Yes, sir. Uh having quantity of of uh vessels that can impose costs.
▶ 1:39:28Um, I'm probably quoting the wrong guy, but quantity has the has a quality all its own. And uh, and so to the extent that our capability decreases, that's bad for John Brunson, a qu question for you. Can you talk a little about why is North Korea sending thousands of troops to Russia and what do you think how do you think they're benefiting from this? Yes, Congressman.
▶ 1:39:56Um so one of the reasons is is uh it helps them to circumvent the the normal course of business and sanctions that exist on them presently. It allows them to get around some of that because there is material uh that's coming back to the de Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Um they're also able to get a technological boost if you will on things that they are seeking to develop. It's cutting their development time in in half.
▶ 1:40:24They're also receiving some material that we can talk about in the close session. Uh that is causing us some problems in the operating environment currently. Coming back to the attack submarines since it was already touched on. We've been producing about one a year right now. What's your take on that Admiral It's inadequate and we've got to work harder uh in order to do that and it's a combination of of a steady stream of funding.
▶ 1:40:51It's a combination of liberalizing the defense industrial base, reforming the industrial base, uh, and, uh, and so, uh, we have to work harder. We have to get to 2.3, 2.4, 2.5 per year, and we can't rest until we do. So, thank you very much. I appreciate all three of you. And I would just close by saying leader of the free world, and we can only produce one attack submarine. We got to do better. I yield. I thank the gentleman for yielding, chair, and I recognize a gentleman from New York, Mr. Ryan.
▶ 1:41:22Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here. Appreciate you making a long a long trip, especially for two of the three of you. Um, Admiral Paparo, thank you for hosting uh myself and others uh out in February um along with uh my colleague, Mr. Bacon. Uh I I think it's important to say in front of the American people and and the whole committee.
▶ 1:41:41I left with an an incredibly optimistic and and frankly very proud view of your leadership, all the subordinate component commands, all aligned, cleareyed about the threat, cleareyed about the urgency of the moment. And I just I commend you on that. Um, and I also commend you on, you know, always coming to us and letting us know in a productive way what we can be doing to enable and continue to up that.
▶ 1:42:06I want to um share something specifically that you said at the the Honolulu Defense Forum when I was out there that I think um is really aligned with the chairman's leadership and the ranking members leadership and where we want to focus on um acquisition reform. you talked about um procure procurement that moves at the speed of combat, not the speed of committee or congress or we could use other cwords.
▶ 1:42:30Um I I I uh I just want to foot stomp that and thank you for saying that so directly and again I I u really appreciate the chair and the ranking members leadership in pushing us as a whole of committee to drive on on that. Um, and I know that you will continue to let us know specific uh reforms and needs as as that goes through. Um, uh, I want to shift now, uh, to a separate but related topic.
▶ 1:42:57And again, I I know we're talking about this a lot, but share uh, Mr. No, my colleagueu's concern and disappointment that we're not getting candid answers. uh frankly even as a a very junior military officer I understood that all the elements of national power diplomatic information military and economic have to be synchronized uh effectively. So I do think uh the committee and the American people are are owed and answer on this.
▶ 1:43:20I want to talk about the impacts to our our allies uh that other colleagues have uh highlighted uh the hypocrisy of asking allies and partners in Indopaccom to up their defense spending, up their burden sharing uh and then hitting them with nonsensical, uninformed and I think now clearly shown to be not even technically correct tariffs is is I think a a massive own goal as we would
▶ 1:43:50uh say with my five and three-year-olds that I'm teaching soccer. Um your testimony specifically calls out empowering our allies and commanders in in your opening remarks as one of the keys to reestablishing deterrence in in Indoaccom and achieving peace through strength. Yes or no, please. Do you think a 46 or does the department think a 46% tariff empowers Vietnam? Yes or no?
▶ 1:44:18Congressman, I can't give a yes or no answer because the issue of tariffs uh is perview of my position. Do you think that a 25% tariff on South Korea empowers our allies and partners? Same same answer, Congressman General Brunson, do you think that empowers our allies and partners in South Korea? Congressman, if I could just ask for a point of clarification.
▶ 1:44:47you now we're down to 25%. I I would say that it impacts their budget and so that's something else they'll have to to work through the Korean government to to solve. Do you think it strengthens our our partnership? Yes or no? Congressman, I I cannot say that yet because I don't know the impacts of it. Uh I've been here for a week, but we come through our recent exercise series.
▶ 1:45:12There have been no impacts to what I understand are purchases that are ongoing for the military element within Korea and I believe that we're sound. Thank you, General. Uh on Australia, who everyone has acknowledged as our most strategic partner in in Indoaccom and Mr. Courtney spoke about this. Uh Mr. or Admiral Paparo, you called them our most strategic partner. Mr. No, you called them a key logistics hub.
▶ 1:45:35It's clear that they were blindsided in particular by this tariff, which I find particularly offensive given the time and investment all of us have spent in building that relationship and nurturing and growing that relationship. To the point that the prime minister said, quote, "The Trump administration's tariffs have no basis in logic and they go against the basis of our two nations partnerships." He's absolutely right. Does that tariff can you at least acknowledge on August given all the bipartisan work that's been done there that that hurts our relationship? Mr.
▶ 1:46:07Congressman, we have a very strong relationship with Australia. Yes or no? Does that does that help or hinder our partnership to to blindside an ally with such a forceful tariff? I'm not I'm not here to talk about tariffs, Congressman. Gentleman's time inspired chair and I recognize gentleman from Texas, Mr. Paladin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Admiral, thank you for being here and general as well. Just know I'd like to keep things simple, basic.
▶ 1:46:3420 years ago, would you agree uh, Admiral, that in the last 20 years, China's capabilities and ambitions have grown exponentially? I have a direct view of that over that 20 years. Yes. And you'd agree there are military peer now? I do. Okay. Uh, same question, Sir, looking through the DPRK lens, I would say yes on both counts. Thank you. So, how many, Admiral, how many Marines do we have on Okinawa today?
▶ 1:47:0518,000. And was it was it roughly the same 20 years ago? Uh, 20 years ago, it was about the same. Yes, sir. What's the end strength goal right now? Uh, presently right now, uh, Third Marine Expeditionary Force is at end strength as it's as it's stationed where it is. It really is optimized. Okay. And so we're not there's no plans to reduce it from they say 18 19,000 to about half 10,000. There is a uh there is the defense policy renew initiative.
▶ 1:47:33Our agreement with Japan and it's a conditionsbased process and uh ultimately 5,000 US Marines are are uh planned to be in Guam and another 2,700 Marines are planned to be in Hawaii.
▶ 1:47:48So given the considerations that you know we talk about with China and the threat is something that I would recommend we do uh is to renegotiate with our Japanese friends and keep those 18,000 or that strength 18 to 19,000 because if god forbid general how many troops do we have in Korea in the 80s roughly was it about 50,000 is that right congressman it's uh a bit lower than that in the 40s 45,000 or so a little bit lower than that 40 28 No.
▶ 1:48:18So in the 80s 30 years ago we only had I'm not talking today. What was it then? What was our high strength? Probably about 60,000 when the division and what is it now? About 30 about half about 30 sir. Okay. So we've established that this threat has grown exponentially and yet uh we've reduced our footprint. So god forbid uh simple question and an obvious answer. Um but god forbid there is a conflict on the Korean peninsula. God forbid the Chinese do cross the Taiwanese straits.
▶ 1:48:46Would you rather have 45 or 50,000 American troops in on the peninsula or would you rather have 30? You know, it's obvious, right? Yes. Yes, Congressman. It's an obvious answer. You'd always want more, but uh but the same thing uh Admiral in Okinawa, right? I mean, if a little bit's good, a whole lot's better. Yeah. You know, and I'm not worried that it's going to capsize either. I think that's uh going to be solid.
▶ 1:49:11Um so Admiral we have a great many allies in the region wonderful allies uh you know certainly so many of them come to mind but what I wanted to ask is what country in in your view is is already an established model ally that uh we could what is that model ally and how can we foster more of our relationships to look like that one Indopaccom has five of the nation's six treaty allies in its AO and when I have got tremendous
▶ 1:49:41pride in our execution of that alliance itself. Um, Japan, South Korea and Australia are very much model allies and their ability to uh uh to provide uh capability and the Philippines is growing and um we've recently had a very good engagement with Thailand and they continue to contribute. Yeah, Thailand's worried me a little bit about cozying up to China. That's why we just is so important what we do here. So, another question I'm very curious to to hear your answer.
▶ 1:50:09Which which friend or friendly nation in Indoecom presents the most promise and potential benefit for the United States in our interests in the future? Vietnam and Indonesia and India. Yeah, absolutely. India above all others. Um I I noticed in India in ' 07 they only bought about 230 million or so uh dollars worth of military equipment and today it's neighboring around 24 billion. And it's very promising, but they're still playing with the Russians.
▶ 1:50:38I get why legacy systems and such but they're still buying more from Russia. So we really do need to do what what do you think we can do to pull India more towards uh uh our sphere if you will. Uh India India's uh uh security cooperation sales with Russia is approximately 30% of their gear. No new buys on this. It's all buys to maintain the vestigial equipment that they had with India.
▶ 1:51:05They'll continue to treasure their non-aligned status, but they'll move more and more uh in partnership with the United States and the other market democracies as we move forward. And uh just for the record, Mr. Chairman, I really hope that we do increase our footprint on the Korean Peninsula and in Okinawa. I think it's strategically important and vital and I yield back. Thank you. Thank the gentleman chair now recognize gentle lady from Hawaii, Mr. Cuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:51:31Section 356 of last year's NDAA directed the Department of Defense to establish an advanced manufacturing facility to support submarine ship building and the broader defense industrial base in the Indo-Pacific. I was proud to help secure this provision and I'm keen to better understand how the department is implementing it.
▶ 1:51:48Admiral Paparo, as a primary user of this advanced manufacturing program, how does it support your requirement as the combatant commander, and how are you providing direction to the services and other entities to guide ongoing efforts related to advanced manufacturing in Hawaii to best support your needs? Aloha, Congresswoman. Good to see you. Good to see you.
▶ 1:52:08We are implementing in partnership with Hawaii Community College and on uh at Wheeler Airfield and Scoffield barracks to bring additive manufacturing in order to gain as much leverage as we can on the ability on scene to provide uh to provide replacement capabilities, replacement parts and to speed up our uh our supply chains. Uh and uh I think this is a model everywhere is to be at the point of need there.
▶ 1:52:36uh and um greater investment in these capabilities. Additive manufacturing aided by AI is critical to us. Uh I made it a focus as you know um having been on this mission for a good while and uh and I I think one of the biggest barriers to it is going to be uh to ensure that the systems commands quickly assess the applicability of those components. uh and when they're finding them wanting, we run to the problem and improve it.
▶ 1:53:04And when they are adequate, quickly give authorities to employ those to employ those uh additive manufacturing capabilities to move faster, to repair gear, and to get it on the line faster. Thank you, Admiral. I'm sure we'll have many more discussions on this. Um, right now if I can't pivot slightly a bit, Admiral, is it helpful to your work in the Indoacific when our European allies support our deterrence in the Pacific, such as when Germany and France conducted Taiwan Straight Transits last fall?
▶ 1:53:32It is, and I I commend our European partners for having been especially robust in 2024. Thank you. And Mr. No, going back to the discussions about whether America first means America alone, Mr. know, do you um does this administration agree that our European and NATO allies have an important role to play in the Uh Congresswoman, uh the department does believe they have a a role. Uh is it an important role that they play given that China is our pacing threat?
▶ 1:54:03Is it an important role? However, the secretary has asked our European partners to first and foremost uh prioritize European continental security uh to do more uh for their own backyard uh first and foremost. But we will look So you see it in a bit of a siloed effect in terms of stick to your region. Uh Admiral Paparo, do you think China is watching our commitment in Ukraine? Do you believe China is engaging in the European theater uh not sticking to their own region?
▶ 1:54:30I believe just recently Ukraine captured two men of Chinese origin fighting for Russia. They did. And um any success offensively in Europe will embolden the PRC in their own offensive ambitions. Clearly, we can't disentangle the the theaters like perhaps some in the administration might think we can.
▶ 1:54:47And I would hope that the administration's comments and actions going forward would reflect um the global impacts that what happens in Ukraine does matter in terms of our ability to safeguard the Indoacific and provide stability there. Um I just want to with the time I have remaining go to another question. Transactional relationships don't work in defense. They don't. Uh whether you're talking about tariffs has been talked about today or demanding increased burden for defense costs, it undermines trust.
▶ 1:55:16It undermines commitment and our ability to withstand adversity going forward. The president has talked about providing our allies even with toned down versions of aircrafts because they may not always be our allies. Uh now this does not to me project confidence uh to people that we want to fight side by side us in the case of aggression.
▶ 1:55:38Um, Admiral Paparo, does this kind of transactional relationship that is being projected and these statements being made about providing our allies with substandard aircraft or equipment, does this help or hurt us in the Indo-Pacific? Congresswoman, um, there there are operational security requirements for those based on the ability of our partners to secure that information.
▶ 1:56:02uh we do our very best to get but do you feel in the time of remaining that transactional relationships are a good foundation for defense partners in any region especially the Indo-Pacific um you know my commitment to authentic relationships with our allies and partners thank you very much Mr. Chair I yield back I thank the gentle lady for yielding chair now recognizes the gentleman from Guam Mr. Mullen thank you Mr. Mr.
▶ 1:56:28Chairman and ranking member, I'm happy to be here on this such an important security hearing about my backyard in Indoaccom and the importancy of Guam where I where is my home and and to relay to our panel that we feel the the pressures you do. Uh we feel the stress and we understand the the threat from our adversities in this region and so happy you're there. I'm focusing on that because Guam is where our day begins. We are US soil.
▶ 1:56:57We have uh many allies in the Indopaccom and and we're the closest body of land that the United States has to our allies. Allies are our friends, but Guam is USA and we are family. So, I appreciate your import number one for you folks.
▶ 1:57:16And part of that as as we grow um uh we know with the Marine Corps is is building up building up in Guam with our Camp Benos and that agreement has gone since 2012 where the United States and Japan came together where Japan made an investment uh would you have an idea of that investment amount that Japan made for that move from Okinawa to help build the camp Benas? I believe it's in the neighborhood of uh three billion. I'll also say if I may sir half a day half a day and your backyard is America's front yard in the homeland.
▶ 1:57:46Amen. Thank you. How about the investments that the United States has made thus far for the camp build up of the camp Benos. I believe the majority of the burden has been borne by the Japanese. Okay. And we're still pumping in money to to get the continuation of of getting that built.
▶ 1:58:01And there's a great investment the island of Guam has done with our infrastructure working closely to ensure what our power our water our roads are are built to withstand all this movement coming into from Okinawa to Guam of the 9,000 of as you mentioned close to 5,000 Marines to facilitate uh being on Guam. It has a great impact on Guam's economy and our community and we've been focusing on this since 2012 and and up to the future and we still got years to go for its completion.
▶ 1:58:30So the concern is though there has been made a comment by a senior military officer that says uh possibly the move from Marines going from Okinawa to Guam. We're going in the wrong direction uh but we have already invested in the uh since 2012 in the NDAA this investment to happen. So Admiral Paparo the Department of Defense do you feel they are still committed to the agreement of the marine forces to move from Okinawa to Guam?
▶ 1:58:59Congressman, uh, the DPRI, the defense policy review initiatives, remains the program of record and we are committed to executing it in a conditionsbased manner. Thank you, Admiral. In addition to all this investment with um moving the Marines to from Okinawa to Guam, we also have other um natural disasters that's hap has happened specifically in 2023, we had typhoon where we uh causing nearly $43 billion in damage to our island.
▶ 1:59:27One of the major things that was damaged also and is one storm away from being completely destroyed is the glass breakwater. Uh vestments have been made. Uh constructions is happening. But this is the key. This is our only port for our supplies that supply our community and our military. With that fails, it's it's total destruction and getting that's our only supply chain uh to get these ships unloaded.
▶ 1:59:51So, uh, since this is being rebuilt, I would ask you for an update on the progress of the project and the estimated completion date of the brick water repairs. Congressman, to my situational awareness, it's on track, but I owe you a more uh a more defined answer, and I'll give that to you in written written form, but I I believe it's on track. Can't happen fast enough for me, but I'll give you the specifics. I appreciate that.
▶ 2:00:18And recently I was talking to um our joint re regional um Micronesia uh Admiral Hoffman uh and he said he watched the rocks being replaced with the crane. So we're moving forward, but I appreciate your updates on that as well. Uh just a few more minutes here. I got to um ask some questions, but we also have some big investments uh going into the repairs in the Air Force uh on&m investments, repairs for that.
▶ 2:00:43uh one specific uh thing the category that when our storm tracker was tracking that was at a category 4 of destruction force but then it blew away. So we we need all these things to be repaired in time to properly prepare for the next battle with the next storm if not our adversaries. So uh I wanted to know we had some unfunded priority lists and how you you you are looking for that to be funded and how what you want Congress to help you with your priority list of unfunded priorities.
▶ 2:01:12We only have 16 Guam defense system is first and foremost in our mind that that remain on track and it deliver on time for uh for Guam's defense as the homeland. And then in addition uh our improvements to Anderson Air Force Base to Northwest airfield uh to those capabilities and the continued improvements to the base. Gentleman's time's expired. Chair recognized gentleman from California Mr. Carbajal. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Indopacecom is a region of consequence.
▶ 2:01:42China are facing challenges obviously there. So are some of our strongest allies like Japan, South Korea and Australia. Then there are other nations we want to strengthen our relationships with to counter Chinese influence. I'd argue that actions taken by this administration like cutting off all our foreign aid and imposing severe tariffs on multiple nations in the Indo-acific, friends and foes alike have significantly diminished our soft power.
▶ 2:02:12Admiral Paparo, is soft power important in building and maintaining relationships with countries so we can provide an alternative to China? Congressman, soft power is important. No more. Oh, I like that answer though. I want to just give you something uh direct and plain spoken. I you know I I can't speak to the policy I executed as a military officer, but soft power is very important to us. As a marine, I understand your answer. Uh Mr. No, same question to you.
▶ 2:02:45Uh Congressman, yes. Yes, it is important. Then why is the administration cutting? So, Congressman, on the issue of uh foreign aid, uh as you know, State Department has lead for approving most foreign assistance uh programs. Uh Department of Defense, we fully support uh reviews to ensure that American taxpayer dollars are spent to support concrete American uh interests.
▶ 2:03:12We will have honest conversations with our allies and partners about what America is able to do uh in the region, but we will absolutely make sure as the department uh that these uh foreign assistance programs are aligned with both the president and the secretary's priorities and policies. Well, it's contradictory to what this president and this administration is doing. So, uh I appreciate your response.
▶ 2:03:38Um, Admiral Paparo, do you feel you have the space capabilities and support you need in your AO, including tactical surveillance, reconnaissance, and tracking? And what are the risks of lo of losing space superiority? We have shortfalls in our air breathing ISR for persistent stair.
▶ 2:03:59uh and I would like to make up those shortfalls and uh space superiority, domain awareness, space and counterpace are critical, indispensable and would be the first battle and are critical to determining strategic, operational, tactical, warning and gaining early leverage. That's the first battle and it uh it is primis at principus in ensuring our own capability to deter and to prevail. Thank you.
▶ 2:04:28China is producing aircraft, ships, missiles, and satellites at rates we cannot match. They are closing the gap in the quality of systems and have passed on passed us on quantity. Even combined with Japan, South Korea, and Australia, their systems outmatch ours by numbers. This war is something that we must try to avoid.
▶ 2:04:50Admiral Paparo, do China actions from their intense procurement of systems to aggressive actions in the South China Sea suggest there is a way to continue deterrence and what can the US and our allies do to detour a conflict with China? Congressman, um my first comment there is is that we can match their capability and it's a matter of will and we have to get after it.
▶ 2:05:14And second of all is that uh is uh we can deter them in those uh in those areas and we have to work towards it but uh we've got to preserve our combat capability that we have and then we've got to build the right capabilities at the right time to continue overmatch and uh you know I I say that we can match and it's a matter of will not as a snarky way but just to as an expression of hope and Admiral you could always be snarky here. I it's welcome. Uh with that Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 2:05:45I thank the gentleman. Chair now recognized a gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Uh, thank you, chairman, and I'd like to have all thank all the witnesses for their service and for being here today. Uh, Admiral Paparo, last year, your predecessor predecessor was asked about the hypersonic threat in your AO. He stated that hypersonic weapons would be a major threat to US forces and a potential conflict in the region.
▶ 2:06:08Two years ago, Vice Admiral John Hill, the MD director, testified before this committee that fielding a def a defensive system against hypersonic uh threat in 20 in 2035 was irrelevant and didn't meet the threat. Do you agree with that testimony? We have a now threat, sir, and uh I do agree. Thank you very much.
▶ 2:06:30Are you able to satisfy your requirements when the previous administration consistently came to Congress with an anemic missile defense agency budget request? U presently I think the most important element is to keep those hypersonic weapons on the rails with counter C5 ISR but uh I will not admit uh any complacency about our ability to execute that mission. Okay. Thank you. Would you agree that in the absence of a glide phase interceptor, we should look at stop gap measures?
▶ 2:07:00Absolutely. Yes, Um, while we're at it, can you comment on how our depletion of exquisiteectors in scentcom um in in the Sentcom A against cheap drones is affecting your ability to maintain the required magazine depth for your AO?
▶ 2:07:19We should equip our forces in the field with the right kind of capabilities that uh that uh gets the numbers in the right way uh so that uh we're not expending uh capabilities that cost millions against something that costs thousands. Yep. Agree. Also, Admiral Pero in in your testimony you state that the survivable long range fires are a key a key priority for your area AR. When I hear that, I I immediately think of hypersonic weapons.
▶ 2:07:46The conventional prompt strike program is intended to provide much muchneeded long-range strike capability for deep inland targets. How important to you is that CPS gets deployed to your command on a submarine? Critical on submarines, critical on the surface as well for the Okay. Also, the Navy is targeting 2028 for CPS to go on Zoomwalt.
▶ 2:08:09If that program does not come to fruition, is it acceptable to wait until CPS is available to be put on a on a block by Virginia a block five Virginia submarine? Need the capability now and we need to go faster to get it on Zumalt as well and get those Zumalts stationed in Hawaii where they can be on point. Thank you, sir. Perfect. Thank you.
▶ 2:08:28Uh you've also pre previously testified that Slickamin uh enduring forward presence in the Western Pacific offers uh range flexibility and survivability to extend deterrence and assurance. Congressman, I strongly endorse the acquisition of Slick amend at soonest availability. Not not 2034. Uh 20 now, sir. Thank you. Uh has your command defined operational scenarios in which slick men could be integrated into your theater operational plans?
▶ 2:08:58Yes sir, and we'll continue to do so. Thank you. Um, also, Admiral Paparo, uh, contested logistics will be critical, uh, capability to maintain our lethality and resupply not only of our forces, but of our allies in Indoacific. Uh, in your recent operational energy initiatives have been distracted with electri electrification and solar effects.
▶ 2:09:20What changes uh will you make to the Endopac's operational energy effects specifically related related to investing in new more resilient energy capabilities like advanced micronuclear reactors? I'm strongly in favor of uh of providing the right kind of energy uh to the into the theater and not to be at any deficit at all. And if uh if uh small modular reactors deliver that, which I believe they do, I'm strongly in favor of them, provided that they're ex safely.
▶ 2:09:51Thank you. Uh also, last year the department announced it was cutting missile defense sites from 22 to 16 on Guam. Uh can you explain the the plans for the committee uh where where you are in developing and implementing those plans? Sir, um Guam Defense System Trunch One will deliver in 2027.
▶ 2:10:11uh and uh I think uh to have our Guam defense system to have the effectiveness of the system be the driver for the uh for the acquisition of it and to look at opportunities for directed energy for electronic warfare uh and to be uh to not fall in love with the plan but to fall in love with the ability to to defend effectively uh the homeland in Guam. Thank you very much. I'll yield back the rest of my time. Gentleman yields back.
▶ 2:10:41Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Massachusetts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. uh our overall uh strategy uh with China uh is one of deterrence uh given the strong support that China has had critical support to Russia uh during its illegal and aggressive actions in Ukraine and the fact that even recently two soldiers were captured who are Chinese and we'll wait to see the
▶ 2:11:11implications of that whether it's isolated or what the background is uh How important is it in terms of deterrence that uh the US and our allies, the 50 over 50 countries that are participating in this be successful in Ukraine and and continuous in that effort to uh underscore our deterrence with China. Congressman, I I know that China is watching.
▶ 2:11:37I know China is directly supporting that effort and I think that uh Russian success will embolden China and uh Russian failure will give China pause and would enhance our deterrence and uh also what effect would it would have if somehow uh that 50 country uh coalition and and the US not working in concert with that 50 country coalition that it has led have to do with our other alliances
▶ 2:12:08uh in in the Indo-Pacific uh particularly you know countries like Australia and our Pacific allies as well that kind of fragmentation could be a signal to China as well uh in terms of deterrence.
▶ 2:12:23Well, sir, without a comment on policy and not having much insight into that coalition, just side to side insight, um the uh the credibility of our alliances and partnerships and the uh credibility of American commitment is critical to alliances and partnerships and that remains a key and critical strategic center of gravity for the United States.
▶ 2:12:44And uh how would you assess the evolving threats posed by China, Russia and North Korea particularly in the multi-dommain operations such as cyber and space warfare? I give them great respect and uh that great respect that I give them uh deserves a robust dominating response from the United States of America and uh they've got a lot of game in those domains and we've got to stay on top of it.
▶ 2:13:12uh even North Korea with their uh the way they operate in the crypto markets requires a lot of attention and the ability to uh thwart that. Great. Uh well, I just want to thank you for your service, all of you, and I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Herrian. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thanks for your testimony this morning. Very much appreciate it. And uh just got a couple questions for you.
▶ 2:13:42One thing I've noticed and and I think we all understand is that the Indo-Pacific is truly the pacing threat in theater for strategic competition that is happening right now. And there is no doubt that the lessons that we are learning in Ukraine show us that lowcost innovation is starting to dominate the battlefield.
▶ 2:14:05This is a particular concern for me as we look at China because of the discrepancy between what China can produce against our dollars versus what we can produce here in our country. I think sometimes when most times uh when a a product is purchased in China and then sold in the United States, it's sold for approximately three to six times depending on the distribution model what it actually costs to produce in China.
▶ 2:14:31So when we look dollar against what China is spending on their defense, what the United States is spending on our defense, uh what we're spending here, there's actually you can't compare it dollar for dollar because those dollars are representative of a very different production capacity. And this has me very concerned particularly with SUAS and small drones as we wrap in the lessons that we're learning from Ukraine.
▶ 2:14:57And I think that we've come to a point where we have $2500 drones that are truly threatening multiund million if not billion dollar assets. The ranking member talked about how Russia's Black Sea naval fleet has been in part scuttled uh by a force that has no navy of its own. Truly remarkable times and and incredible threats.
▶ 2:15:24uh 80% of the Russian casualties that are being caused in the Ukrainian theater are being caused by FPV drones and it's estimated right now that China's drone output in 2024 was billion which is at least four times the amount of money that the United States is spending obviously with far lower by an order of magnitude unit costs.
▶ 2:15:50China's continued modernizing its FPV swarm and biomimetic drone capabilities. So, I want to talk about the Chinese drone advantage that we see today. What threats does China's dominance in the global drone market pose for US national security in the event of a potential conflict?
▶ 2:16:15Congressman, China dominates the drone industry um just by dent of their capacity to build them. Many of the long lead critical items that go into any drone are made in the People's Republic of China. So um diversifying our supply chains in order to ensure that we're not dependent on China to acquire the drones that we need to deter China is absolutely critical.
▶ 2:16:43General Brunson, do you have anything to add for I I would, Congressman, and thank you. Um I can see without my glasses that you have served, so thank you for that, sir. Um one of the things that we want to try to bring to Korea is I I think what we might be able to do is to innovate better. So if you're familiar with the army's transforming in contact part one and two tax zero, there's some u technology that's being put forward now that's going to allow us to 3D print drones.
▶ 2:17:11And so we we can have our own autonomous swarms that we could go counter with. We're also looking to invest in other counter UAS technologies as we've seen the hardening along the DPRK border within the DMZ. Uh we've got to be able to see a bit further and other things that we might be able to do in order to improve our ability to understand our operating environment is the use of technologies that already exist that would give us the same advantages.
▶ 2:17:37High altitude balloons, for example, could be used to great effect in particular on the peninsula. Are we doing any of these initiatives at the scale we need to do them in order to accomplish your strategic objectives that you've been I'm dissatisfied with the scale. I'm dis dissatisfied with the speed and we have to go faster, work harder, and get better. Thank you, sir. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
▶ 2:18:06Uh gentleman yields back. Chair uh the gentleman makes an excellent point though about uh Chinese spending. You cannot compare it dollar for dollar with the budgets of of of our country for defense spending or any other country. It is not apples to apples. And that's just one of many illustrations that I'm glad that you pointed out. We now turn to the gentle lady from California, Miss Jacobs. Thank you, Mr. chairman and thank you uh to our witnesses uh for being here. Um Mr.
▶ 2:18:36No, first I want to turn to you. In your testimony, you frequently emphasize the importance of a whole of government approach to counter Chinese influence um in the Pacific Islands. Yet um the administration has significantly cut funding to USAD and other humanitarian programs that traditionally are a part of a whole of government integrated strategy. Building on uh the question from my colleague Mr.
▶ 2:19:00Carbajal, can you clearly explain how the reduction in US economic and humanitarian engagement undermines our ability to implement this whole of government approach and directly hands China greater leverage? Uh, Congresswoman, uh, as I stated earlier, the the State Department has uh, lead for approving. I'm not asking about the State Department. I'm asking about your testimony about whole of government approach. So, I'd be happy to talk about what the Department of Defense is doing in the Pacific Island countries.
▶ 2:19:30Uh, we have extensive engagements uh in security cooperation programs under title 10 section 333. We work with these countries to improve their cyber security, enhance their maritime domain awareness. We conduct regular exercises. Of course, the focus is on posture uh and warfighting capabilities. But these are things that we do with many of these countries.
▶ 2:19:52uh the KFAS uh the compacts of free association that we have with three country countries in particular Palao, Federated States of Micronesia and the Republic of Marshall Islands. That's another uh big emphasis of the department. We're doing a lot of great work. Yep. I understand all of the work that the department is is doing in the Pacific Islands. Um but your testimony mentions whole of government and DoD only is not a whole of government approach. Admiral Paparo, in response to a question by um my colleague Mr.
▶ 2:20:20G Mundy, you said that while review of USA ID is ongoing, you would advocate for robust USA ID in your AO. Can you expand on why you think USAD funding is so important and how it helps you succeed in your overall mission? our USID programs, particularly the ones that uh that work on um on necessities, food, water, medical, and critical infrastructure.
▶ 2:20:45Uh they are uh they're they're key and critical to these poor areas and they enable us to compete against the People's Republic of China who operate in the same domains. Thank you. Um now I want to turn to Taiwan. I think it's important for us to recognize what kinds of US actions actually help shore up Taiwan's defenses and what kind of actions can contribute to escalation and actually u make Taiwan less safe.
▶ 2:21:09Um for instance, the training and weapons the United States has provided over the years has helped Taiwan's ability to defend itself in the event of invasion. And we haven't actually seen that spark escalation with the PRC. On the other hand, symbolic types of support like high-profile visits or Secretary Hegs's over-the-top rhetoric during his recent trip to Panama seem to have a more escal escalatory effect without actually making Taiwan any safer.
▶ 2:21:32So, um, Admiral Paparo, could you discuss ways in which the department is ensuring we're not unnecessarily escalating tensions and maintaining open lines of communication with the PRC? Congresswoman, the policy, you know, enshrined in the three communicates, the six asurances and the Taiwan relations act stipulates that uh defensive services and defensive capability uh shall be provided to Taiwan while the department maintains the capacity to resist any resort to force that jeopardizes the social,
▶ 2:22:03political, and economic system of Taiwan. uh sticking strictly to that policy and ensuring that that policy has the credibility that it requires. What comes to mind is the third communicate from August of 1982, I believe it was, which was the uh that that those services uh shall decrease with the demilitarization of the Taiwan Strait.
▶ 2:22:27And so uh being sensitive to affirm the three communicates but to also to also execute them uh in accordance to the letter and spirit that they were initiated with is very important to us. Thank you Admiral Pyro. Mr. No, um do you believe Secretary Hex's very over-the-top rhetoric on Taiwan actually aligns with our stated policy as the United States?
▶ 2:22:52Congresswoman, I would I would disagree that anything Secretary Hexath uh stated about Taiwan is is over the top. Uh he has emphasized the importance of uh reestablishing deterrence and doing so uh uh in the Indoacific and the department is moving with urgency and focus to do just that. Thank you. Um deterrence is very important. um things we do that unnecessarily escalate without actually making Taiwan any safer are the opposite of deterrence.
▶ 2:23:22And with that, Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back. I thank the gentle lady for yielding. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Magcguire. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our Witnesses for being here today. U Mr. No, you're doing a great job. I really appreciate what President Trump is doing, what Pete Hexath is doing to return our military to lethality. We're eradicating the divisive ideologies from our military and it is working.
▶ 2:23:46What I understand is recruitment is up and I've spoken with soldiers, airmen and marines and others around my district and even on the southern border and morale is way up. You know, we wouldn't have a country without our men and women in the military. So for all our service members, all our veterans here, thank you for what you do to keep us safe. It's great to see my Navy Seal brother, Fleet Master Chief uh David ISM here today and I see this as a way to continue service to our country.
▶ 2:24:15I think we would all agree that we have many threats at home and abroad and you guys have covered a lot of terri territory today and I'd like to talk about aircraft carriers. Um I'd like to focus on their role and uh admiral in your area of operation area of responsibility. I know you're pleased that the USS George Washington CVN73 has rejoined the four deployed uh naval forces in Yosuka, Japan.
▶ 2:24:40Also note that the USS Carl Vincent CVN70, the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaul, and the Japanese aircraft carrier Kaga all participated in a recent joint exercise in the Philippine Sea. The USS Nimttz CVN68, our nation's oldest aircraft carrier. I must have been around a while because I remember when that came into service nearly 50 years ago, um is now deployed on what is likely her final deployment and heading west.
▶ 2:25:05The Secretary of Defense has emphasized the need to restore deterrence of our military and to achieve peace through strength. How do you see aircraft carriers role in the deterrence mission, especially in the Indo-Pacific area, your area of responsibility? Congressman, carriers are absolutely critical in the weight of fires that they can bring, which is many, many times x almost any other capability.
▶ 2:25:30And when knitted together with the rest of the joint force, they're part and parcel of an all domain force, executing every mission from ASW to strike to air superiority. It's a mobile, capable airfield that the enemy would have to work very hard to target. and they work hard to target them because they are so afraid of them.
▶ 2:25:54So uh absolutely critical critical with the joint force not at the exclusion of any other force but in complement to that to achieve those critical missions. The PRC demands information air and maritime superiority as a pretext for their operations. Aircraft carriers are critical to contesting and gaining those superiorities. Well, I certainly support those efforts and Admiral, I'd like to thank you for your response. Uh, Mr.
▶ 2:26:23Chairman, I'd like to submit for the record a recent US Naval Institute article entitled Aircraft Carriers Still Indispensable written by Admiral Paparo that provides an excellent summary of the case for aircraft carriers as a cornerstone for our national defense. Without objection, so ordered. All right, Admiral as well.
▶ 2:26:44Um, when you consider the potential conflict in the Indo Pacific contestant logistics will be a critical capability to maintain our lethality and resupply not only for our forces but also our allies in the region. Do you share the sentiment? Most strongly. Our uh our adversaries note that believe that the Pacific war was built on the ability to sustain and I agree with them. What changes would you make to Indopaccom's operational energy efforts?
▶ 2:27:15You know, in my district, we build u we have a nuclear power plant. We are building a small module reactor, but I believe the world's first micro reactor is about to come from my district. And how important is that to helping you do your job, sir? Uh accepted.
▶ 2:27:33I mean particularly the uh the uh incredible uh efficiency of a uh of a nuclear reactor with uranium delivering um at its own critical levels uh 3 million megajoules per hour per kilogram. It's incredibly efficient. Um it's small, modular, and uh and uh you know I I I I can't endorse that enough. It sounds great. Well, what can we do here in Congress?
▶ 2:27:59I think we're all supportive, but in your words, what can we do to better support the war fighters to give you a chance to win the fight and come home? Sir, um continued funding streams, uh and um if CR if if continuing resolutions are a uh feature and not a bug. I'm not making a comment on that.
▶ 2:28:18putting the kind of provisions within continuing resolutions to be able to execute every program that we have and authorities that enable a steady flow of funding which provides a steady flow of predictability for the defense industrial base which enables them to recruit, hire, train, retain workforce so that we can be at full capacity. Thank you. Gentleman's time is expired. Chair and I recognize Miss Strickland. Thank you, Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith.
▶ 2:28:48I have the honor of representing Joint Base Lewis McChord, home to tens of thousands of active duty service members, including the first multi-dommain task force and future elements of the third MDTF, fifth security forces assistant brigade, first Special Forces Group, and America's First Corps. And it's great to see you, General Bunson. Those stars look good on you. All of these things are regionally aligned toward the Indopacific Theater. and JBLM plays a central role in the US's ability to ensure a free and open Indo-acific.
▶ 2:29:17I'm going to talk about two issues. I will start with climate change and then the alliances and partnerships of AUS. Um Admiral Paparo, how are the US military operations and plans being affected by factors like rising sea level, extreme heat, and displacement in heavily populated coastal areas.
▶ 2:29:38uh some of our efforts um align our Pacific partnership and our operations with the typhoon season uh within the Pacific so that we can be more ready to respond to uh humanitarian assistance disaster relief. Uh similarly uh many of our expeditionary engineering capabilities work on key critical infrastructure particularly through the Pacific island countries and so uh that ability to respond is front of mind. Thank you. Uh, Mr.
▶ 2:30:07Noe, under President Trump and Secretary Hegs leadership, DoD is now cancelling programs that do a few things. Extend rage and onstation time, mitigate contested logistic challenges, and make our forces more easier to detect by lowering thermal signatures. All because these programs also happen to have a climate benefit.
▶ 2:30:29In his approach, um, Secretary Hex has said, quote, "We do not do climate change crap." And this approach is actually curbing innovation and making us less ready. They don't make us more lethal. They don't protect our troops and they don't help us confront a peer competitor.
▶ 2:30:45How can the department prefer for the realities of a conflict in Indoaccom, an environment of censorship where key decisions are being made because of a catchphrase instead of the actual benefits that protect our war Uh, Congresswoman uh the focus of the of the department uh is and will remain on strengthening our posture uh and war fighting capabilities and I believe uh the president's budget uh which will be released soon will reflect both the priorities
▶ 2:31:16of the president and the um uh priority of reestablishing deterrence in the Indoacific. Okay. So, the three things I mentioned specifically, extending range and station time, mitigating contested logistics, and making our forces harder to find by luring thermal signatures. Are those things actually going to happen even though the secretary said that this was climate change crap? Congresswoman, that uh woman uh that that's a uh issue I'll have to take back and and follow up with you on. Okay.
▶ 2:31:45So, you don't know? I'm not sure. Okay. Thank you. Now I want to switch over to AUS and we know that this particular partnership is incredibly important. It prevents Chinese malign influence and actually reduce costs for the US. So Admiral um can you talk about how this partnership has already benefited the US and what capabilities it's delivering to our Australian allies?
▶ 2:32:09Congresswoman, um first is that um it's benefit us in the contributions that Australia's made to the defense industrial base to the uh to the amount of $3 billion in order to enhance the submarine industrial bases capability to deliver on on pillar one.
▶ 2:32:24Uh second uh the working towards submarine rotational force sterling would give the United States a Indian Ocean capability which is more responsive to the South China Sea and gives us the ability to operate with the submarines with impunity without having to go through straits uh in the Indian Ocean and its approaches through the critical straits of Malaa of Flumbach and of Sunda uh among others.
▶ 2:32:50And then on pillar two, um, Australia hits way way above its weight from a cyber standpoint. Uh, it does some critical things that really complement what we do. So AUS is a winner in every way for Indoacific Command. Thank you. And then Mr. No, are there any obstacles that you think the US faces in fully implementing AUS and specifically upholding our partnership particularly in transferring three to five Virginia class submarines?
▶ 2:33:20Congresswoman, I think our industrial capacity remains uh uh a limiting factor. Uh we're able to produce 1.28 Virginia class submarines a year. That number needs to be uh above two for us to both fulfill our own submarine requirements and uh to fulfill our obligations to Australia uh under pillar one. So that and you Thank you.
▶ 2:33:43And you may want to tell your boss that some of the trade decisions that are being Our chair now recognizes a gentle lady from Virginia, Miss Kiggins. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you so much to our panelists and for your years of service to our great nation. I have the privilege of representing Hampton Roads, which is home to the Atlantic Fleet, uh, also home to East Coast Ship Repair and ship building, and uh, just thousands of military families and personnel, especially that are Navy members.
▶ 2:34:12So I want to want to focus on the on the Navy for uh a few minutes, but uh Admiral Paparo, we know that if conflict were to arise in Indoaccom area of responsibility, the men and women of Hampton Roads would be on the front lines of that fight. And I know that we are very focused on the Pacific and and on the West and on the West Coast. But can you just speak to me about the importance of the Atlantic Fleet uh and your mission in the Indo-Pacific because we know that when things arise in the Middle East, Israel is a perfect example.
▶ 2:34:39after October 7th, we sent the Ford and the Eisenhower to that region of the world, but the Indian Ocean and and the Indopacific is not too far away. So, just speak to me about the important role of the Atlantic fleet uh and our specifically the carrier air wings from Naval Air Station Oceanana in my district uh what that means to your mission. Congresswoman, thank you also for your service to the to the nation as a US naval aviator and those of the uh many members of your family that are all that have served or are serving at this at this very time.
▶ 2:35:09And you make a great point and that point is is that all of the joint force is designed that it must be responsive to any threat anywhere. That the rebalance to the Pacific uh has got to have the capability to have the total balance going to the Pacific within weeks.
▶ 2:35:27And so uh uh presently in the in the uh in our plans of record um the Atlantic fleet is very well represented uh in the uh in the Indoacific and not just in the Indian Ocean but in the Pacific itself. It would be key and critical and indispensable to combat success. And how important to your mission is investment in the upkeep of places like our East Coast Master Jet Brace that would provide those carrier air wings.
▶ 2:35:57There can be no difference across the force from a standardization standpoint about the uh readiness of the facilities to support training and operations. And that is precisely because every force has got to be ready to fight the pacing threat. And so we currently have F-18 squadrons uh which which are great and fulfilling the mission, but are also aging. And so I just want to ask you specifically, how would an F-35 integration help with your mission?
▶ 2:36:26F-35s are critical and we cannot make that transition fast enough across the force and F-35s must be a part of the Atlantic fleet in my humble opinion. Thank you for that answer. And now I want to move to ship building. And we continue to decommission ships at a rate that far outpaces new construction even as many of these platforms are still operational and actively deployed. In some cases, we're investing in maintenance and upgrades only to retire the ship as soon as it returns to port from deployment.
▶ 2:36:54Given our glo grow growing global commitments and the urgent need for naval presence, how does this approach make sense, Admiral Paparo, and why are we decommissioning ships and we clearly are clearly short on capacity? I think uh if the ship you know given the fact that the ship is relevant and given that there's the proper balance of investment in the ship so that the return on investment is right uh and getting absolutely the most relevance out of the most relevant ships until the capacity of the United
▶ 2:37:24States is built up so that they can be replaced. I think uh I'm not a proponent of divest to invest. I'm a proponent of make before break and I'd prefer not to decommission combat relevant capabilities until its replacement is on board so it's sailors and marines can properly transfer to that platform and get into the fight. Agree. We need all the ships we can get and even old ship is better than no ship.
▶ 2:37:53Uh and speaking again about ship building, I know that when we had the opportunity to visit Pearl Harbor, you spoke about uh the fact that I think it was only 17% of your high school graduates are attending colleges or university and the lines at the shipyard for those skilled trade jobs are are so long. So what are you doing in in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii that that is working that we might uh apply to other ship building and ship repair locations like Hampton Roads?
▶ 2:38:20And um so Hawaii is very unique uh and that Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard is a incredibly valued profession in Hawaii which confers that there's a waiting list in order to get onto the roles as a shipyard worker and as a result uh because of the uh because of the experience of the shipyard force, Pearl Harbor delivers cap delivers its projects uh ahead of schedule and usually below budget.
▶ 2:38:49And that's a great model. And I think outreach in individual communities that similarly reflect and model that that process where it's a highly valued uh profession. Making sure that we keep pace from a pay standpoint that we're not out competed for pay for shipyard workers because 90% of any organization's hiring problems can be solved with pay. Gentle lady time expired. chair and I recognize gentleman from California, Mr. Cisneros.
▶ 2:39:21Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. And uh Admiral, I want to thank your your fleet master chief for your career, sir. Uh and everything that you've done for this nation. Um chiefs from the Navy. Um I'm a former naval officer. I can tell you one thing that I um when I left the Navy, I wish I still had my I wish I could have took my chief with me there.
▶ 2:39:43the senior enlisted are a valuable asset to our military and we need to do what we can to make sure that we support them in any way possible. I also want to say um just go back to uh Mr. Mr. Courtney's comments about the tariffs and what they are doing. Mr. know um you know the fact that we have three nations Japan, South Korea and and China that are coming together uh because of these tariffs and these are three nations that have a history of contention.
▶ 2:40:13Um you may say it's not an uh the tariffs don't affect the military but it is going to have an effect later on in the military and so the Department of Defense should definitely be speaking up on that there because it is going to affect us at some point. General Brunson, I'm going to start with you, sir. Um, we've seen the DRP, the DPRK, and Iran provide support to Russia during the Ukrainian conflict, supplying soldiers, munitions, uh, critical minerals.
▶ 2:40:42The strengthening of these relationships continues to undermine the security and stability of the Indo-Pacific region. Um what are we seeing in the reverse as far as I mean those uh Russia, China supplying materials, technology and things to North Korea and really what have we learned from the North Korean army with their experience there in Ukraine that is going to be benefit you and your knowledge? Yes sir.
▶ 2:41:09So uh one one of the first things I would say is um I'm looking at I'm concerned with more importantly what's coming back vice what's going out. I can see very very well all the things that are going out but coming back is technology coming back is um critical munitions that are coming back there. What's coming back is critical material which is changing our operating environment in in a large way.
▶ 2:41:39And then uh what it's causing us to really do is look at how we might counter those things that we might be able to continue to deter them or have K Jung-un say not today. Not today. And some of that has to do with the posture that we take as we sort of organize ourselves differently within our operating environment. And I think that another thing that I'm I'm looking at uh routinely is how am I communicating those things back out?
▶ 2:42:07How am I going back to uh ensure that not only our friends, partners and allies are also witting to this, but how am I communicating back with Indopaccom to ensure that we are able to talk about the changes that we might have in our OE as well. Have you learned lessons from the uh about the North Korean army about how they've been operating and what they've been doing in Ukraine that are going to be valuable to you? Yes, sir. We most certainly have. Good. Thank you.
▶ 2:42:33Um, Admiral, um, you know, you and your fellow COCOMs are are competing for assets continually, whether it be the aircraft carriers, air squadrons, special operation forces, uh, Patriot missile batteries. Um, can you discuss the challenges that you're facing there in trying to respond to China's operations while you're competing for those those assets?
▶ 2:42:59Yes, Congressman, understanding that uh that there's a high demand for the global force is just my job. So, mitigating that when the department when the commander-in-chief makes a decision to shift one capability to another theater and to be able to mitigate mitigate for that and sometimes it's the substitution of of other relevant capabilities.
▶ 2:43:20Sometimes it's knowing what the response time is of that capability to restore it to the uh all those are uh are important factors and so uh our job is to take the policy decisions and to mitigate those to express the risk and to do our very best to restore deterrence and to provide the indications and warnings if it has to return to a theater that has more exigent uh needs.
▶ 2:43:48Okay that thank you very much for that answer Admiral and I got about 30 seconds left so I'm just going to yield my time back. Thank you. I thank the gentleman for yielding chair and I recognize a gentleman from Georgia, Mr. McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's great to see you again. Uh first of all, you know, congratulations for a well- served career uh for a fleet command master chief just phenomenal. Uh that steely stare just kind of gives me flashbacks of when I was on the drill field just uh wondering what the next fate was going to be.
▶ 2:44:15But I got a coin for you in the fine military tradition. When we get done with this, I'd love you to accept it. Uh, you know, Admiral, when I was out there with your command recently, you you gave the best brief I've ever gotten. Literally, I just thought phenomenal overview of that, the importance of that region, 70% of the world's wealth going through that for trade, 70% of the world's population, a bunch of military forces. Uh, really excited about what you bring to the future vision of the military. I'm really uh what a great visionary you are and I'm looking forward to working with you too, General, in that really important region.
▶ 2:44:46Um, I'm sure we'd love to ti turn in our ties for a flight suit or or an M4 and go out there and be on the pointy end of the spear, but yet here we sit. Uh, determining the fate of the world as we seek it. Um I'm curious right now with what's going on in North Korea and I'd let either one of you can speak on this.
▶ 2:45:04Uh the instability that that region right now and seeing what their government's doing with their former government, their current government and the the importance of somebody we fought alongside of uh not just in Korea but in Vietnam and other regions uh what they can bring to the table still and can we count on them in this regional conflict? Thank you for the question, sir. And I and I appreciate it sincerely that uh I can just share with you what I'm seeing there in Korea right now. Uh their system works.
▶ 2:45:35That's the first and foremost thing I would want everyone to know is that the Korean system works. We'll have an election soon. We'll have a new uh uh president. Uh, our commander-in-chief recently made a call to the acting president of the Republic of Korea and our military relationships are absolutely sound and solid.
▶ 2:45:55We most recently exercised in large scale during freedom shield, our one of our largest exercises which includes um the Republic of Korea's government as part of the exercise. Uh we had some 4,000 Marines on the in the KTO exercising live virtual constructive some 51 separate events that went on there. I believe that uh the situation we find ourselves in right now is one where we're going to continue to increase our capacity.
▶ 2:46:23There was talk earlier of investments being made. I'm very pleased with the investments that are being made by the Republic of Korea military at large across their joint force and I'm especially excited about the opportunities that we have to collaborate in a combined fashion to produce effects on the Korean Peninsula. Fantastic. As a guy who spent several tours over there with the Rock Marines, uh knowing their motto pong, which means, you know, must win victory. They only have one uh objective. They only have one battlefield, one enemy, and if they lose, they're all dead.
▶ 2:46:54So I hope they uh resonate uh around that message and understanding their mission and their importance to us in that regional uh conflict. Um there's been a lot of questions Mr. No, about the tariffs and the impact of the relationships between country. I'm going to ask you to agree with something I'm about to state because you say you know this is not really my field but and they've said but you got to bring it back to the secretary of defense. make sure he understands.
▶ 2:47:18One thing that we all understand as military guys who who've seen what everybody understands around the world is strength. Doesn't matter if you're Asian, doesn't matter if you're uh Arab, it doesn't matter if you're African, it doesn't matter if you're Latino. Everybody understands strength. And I think if we come from a position of strength, the results are obvious.
▶ 2:47:41What I've seen with the tariffs is now for the first time in my lifetime zero zero tariffs reciprocating from Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Israel, India, the entire European Union and more to follow. 50 countries come table saying 0. Could we ask for a better result in tariff negotiations that puts in a position of strength?
▶ 2:48:04because everybody understands fairness and there's nothing more fair than a tariff and it's more beneficial to the United States because we've been at a disadvantage all this in time and I think it puts us in a position where people understand strength and fairness as well as anybody and especially in the Indoacific region where people understand the bashidto they understand strength they understand fairness they understand honor and I think it puts us in a very good position if you have any comment on that Congressman Uh, of
▶ 2:48:34course the president uh emphasizes needing to negotiate uh from a position of strength and that's something Secretary Hexath strongly believes in as well. I think that pretty much sums it up and I'm out of time at this point but once again to the command master chief congratulations on a welldeserved career ending and and uh we look forward to find things in in the afterlife. Separ all right uh chair now recognize a gentleman from Illinois Mr. Sorenson. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Good morning.
▶ 2:49:04Welcome to our witnesses, uh, Mr. No, Admiral Paparo, and General Brunson. Um, thank you for your insights, for your leadership, um, as we face, um, a new realm in the Indo-Pacific. Um, I'd like to first take a minute to acknowledge Taiwan both as a as a democracy and a strategic ally. While we work to boost our own domestic semiconductor manufacturing capabilities, we must ensure that Taiwan is able to contribute to our supply chains.
▶ 2:49:30Working together to develop new technology and innovation means that we work together to make both of us secure. That means that we must also remain steadfast partners in the region as China continues to develop its offensive power. Um, Mr. No, I'll begin with you. Last week, President Trump announced that he would impose a 32% tariff on Taiwanese goods. I don't know if that number has changed in the past 15 minutes or not.
▶ 2:49:56If we hurt the Taiwanese economy, how can the administration demand that Taiwan spend more on its own defenses? Congressman, uh the department is working to prioritize our security assistance to Taiwan. Uh currently we're leveraging the different tools we have at our disposal whether that's PDA, FMF, uh FMS or TISKY, the Taiwan Security Cooperation uh initiative.
▶ 2:50:25Uh arming Taiwan and strengthening Taiwan's defense capabilities uh is extremely important uh for not only the defense of Taiwan but for uh strengthening our posture and reestablishing deterrence. So we're moving quickly uh to do that and we're committed to doing so. So what I'm hearing from you is there is 100% connection between Taiwan and the United States uh with this relationship.
▶ 2:50:52Uh Congressman, the future of Taiwan uh does matter to American interests. Admiral Papro, in your written written testimony, you mentioned how critical our European allies like the UK and France are to security in the Indo-acific.
▶ 2:51:07How important is the all of the above approach to keeping the region Congressman, uh the more partners and allies that demonstrate that they have concurrence on uh on the security interests of the world, noting that uh that the world globally uh will be highly if not completely affected by conflict in the Indo-Pacific.
▶ 2:51:33And when a partner demonstrates their expression of will by putting key capability in the Indoacific, it confers more legitimacy and more leverage on on the cause that of that the uh Taiwan straight matter shall not be shall not be changed by force. I appreciate that. Uh Mr. No, I want to go back to to the discussion on North Korea.
▶ 2:51:57Uh besides strengthening our force posture in the region, how is the Trump administration planning to address North Korean aggression? Um and will President Trump be sitting down with Kim Jong-un? Congressman, on your last question, I I I cannot uh speak for the president on uh whether he will do so. Uh but I will focus on and explain to you what the department is doing.
▶ 2:52:20Uh North Korea poses a serious threat not just because of its nuclear arsenal but uh due to its uh development of missiles that are capable of targeting not only our allies uh in the region but also the United States homeland. Uh so we will continue to work uh with the uh with our South Korean allies and of course uh General Brunson and our our team at USFK uh to make sure we have uh a strong deterrence posture uh to deter the North Korean threat.
▶ 2:52:51U both the admiral and the general have mentioned in their testimonies that North Korea is seeking to uh seeking Russia's help in developing more advanced satellites and drones, missiles and submarines. Uh Mr. know what is being done to prevent coordination uh between Russia and North Korea, especially since we've just found out the news yesterday that we have Chinese fighting alongside Russians uh against Ukraine. Uh Congressman, I' I'd be happy to have this discussion more in depth in a in a classified setting.
▶ 2:53:20Happy to follow up uh there. Okay, I will we'll do that and I'll yield back the balance of my time. Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crank. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman, uh Mr. No, uh Admiral General, thank you all for your service uh to our country. I know each of you have serve served and um I appreciate all the years and decades that you've served our country. Um Admiral uh and I apologize I missed a lot of your verbal testimony.
▶ 2:53:49We've got another subcommittee and I had uh 32 amendment votes in that committee. So, I'm sorry about that. But I'm really encouraged. I did read your testimony. I'm really encouraged to see a sizable section of your written testimony dedicated to discussing Indoaccom's collaboration with Space Command and how vital intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and tracking capabilities are to winning the fight.
▶ 2:54:14Uh, and I fully agree with you when you say, quote, "Space superiority is essential to Indopaccom's operations across all domains," unquote. And I want to start by asking you the same question that I've asked um all of our combatant commanders. And I understand that it it's uh difficult to answer in detail in open forum.
▶ 2:54:35But in your opinion, is the space-based threat uh to the US posed by Russia and China greater, lesser, or the same than it was four years ago? Sir, Congressman, it is unequivocally greater and um growing by leaps and bounds for China by year and uh and also Russia's working very hard on it. And uh we may follow up in close session a little more on that as well.
▶ 2:55:03Uh Admiral, you also say in your testimony, US Indopaccom requires enhanced groundbased space surveillance networks throughout the Indo-Pacific region. Can you provide uh more information on the systems or capabilities you need to win the fight? Sir, may I please defer to our classified session? Of course. Thank you. Um and then um we can talk about some other questions there uh I guess in um in classified session.
▶ 2:55:34Will the needs that you have in in these areas and we can talk about them more later, will they be reflected in the budget requests submitted to this Sir, uh they are reflected in detail in my 1313 report uh and and are provided in detail. Okay. Thank you, Admiral. I appreciate it. And I'll yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes a gentle lady from New Hampshire, Miss Goodlander. Thank you, Mr. Mr.
▶ 2:56:02Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for for being here today. Admiral, you are the commander of America's oldest and largest combatant command. I just want to begin by talking about the threats we face. Can you confirm for us your what your current assessment is of the top threat to our national security that America currently faces in the Indoacific region?
▶ 2:56:27Congresswoman, uh, the People's Republic of China, China and their capabilities that they built within the People's Liberation Army are the biggest threat to the security, the freedom, and the well-being of the nation. Russia also has a sizable Pacific fleet with whom they are uh with whom they are growing in their exercises with the PRC with the PRC.
▶ 2:56:49And uh you know I also acknowledge the threat of North Korea uh which is significant and uh growing in cooperations with the others and violent extremist groups as well. Thank you for that Admiral and thank you for your testimony on the importance of public shipyards in this country.
▶ 2:57:07My home state that I'm proud to represent of New Hampshire plays a central role in our maritime security and protecting the livelihood of our shipyard workers is is a top priority for me here in Congress. I want to ask you about China's growing aggression in the maritime domain. Um we just saw last month the threat that Chinese warships pose to our partner Australia.
▶ 2:57:35How how how should we be thinking about China's growing naval capabilities and who our most important partners and allies will be in addressing this line of threat? Well, thanks for affirming the role of uh Congressman, thanks for affirming the role of public shipyards. My dear father was a shipyard worker at a shipyard that is no longer in commission. That's what he did for his for his life's work. So, thank you for that. And Portsmith Naval Shipyard is is uh tops, absolutely tops. We affirm that and we benefit directly for that in Indoaccom.
▶ 2:58:06The People's Republic of China are building six combatants per year. Uh they are actively building aircraft carriers and they're getting better. They've embarked on a program of uh nuclear ballistic missile attack submarines. They're working on a next generation. They're working on on uh nuclearpowered uh submarines in their Shang 3 series. and uh they're building at a at a high rate.
▶ 2:58:33But when as we think about it too, it's not just navy on navy because when we say all domain, that is really the capability of the entire joint force to action that which is threatening us and to do so in unison uh to to be affecting it cross domain. So, uh, these rates of build are concerning and we've got to pace that, but the entire joint force, uh, but that includes significantly increasing our ship shipmaking cap capability.
▶ 2:59:04Thank you for that. You've testified that America's network of allies and partners is our most significant asymmetric advantage. um in the Indopacific region. We heard testimony yesterday about the importance of the role that our support for Ukraine has in deterring threats uh in Europe. Does our support for Ukraine deter threats in the Indoacific region?
▶ 2:59:33Congresswoman, um R Russ Russian failure andor Russian success has a direct bearing on uh on the PRC's calculus and they're watching very closely. So I I want to ask more about how how we strengthen our partners and allies. I I agree with what has been said by many of my colleagues in this hearing. I'm very concerned about what impacts a global trade war against some of our most important allies in the region will have on our national security and our national defense.
▶ 3:00:03General, I want to ask you about South Korea. You you you testified just a few minutes ago that the South Korean system is working. It's in the midst of a constitutional crisis right now. What do you see why why is that system working and what have been the most important checks in that system for the continuence of South Korea's Uh briefly, I will say simply that they they read their rules. They understand the rule of law well.
▶ 3:00:31Uh they also are following exactly what they said they were going to do. They were going to send things to a constitutional court that were going to continue move forward. What I would like to note is the stabilizing force that the military's been in that country.
▶ 3:00:45Whether it be wildfires in the in the in the east or a you know a a training incident which affected a great portion of the population the military has been able to do all the things that are necessary for that country to give time and space for their constitution to do exactly what it said it was going to do. Gentle times expired chair and I recognize gentleman from Texas Mr. Gooden. Thank you and thank you all Admiral. I had a just some brief questions for you about uh first artificial intelligence.
▶ 3:01:14Successful integration of AI and machine learning into command and control functions is a key challenge for our military and nearpeer conflict will require robust C2 systems that can not only ingest massive quantities of data across the kill chain but can also generate operational insight at the tactical edge and in denied environments. Given the commercial platforms that have been validated by Indopaccom, how are you using commercial capabilities to meet these needs?
▶ 3:01:43Congressman, we're in run at US Indopaccom as an AI enabled headquarters, not to replace human judgment, but to augment it. And so, uh, the employment of of AI models, um, I won't tell you what the names of them are just in the interest of ethics.
▶ 3:02:03uh in con in conjunction with uh with cutting edge command and control uh systems and then linking both our top secret databases, our secret databases and its own open-source learning models from which there is a rich uh data data field uh is is enabling us to make better decisions faster at the strategic level at the operational level as we link the functions of command and control,
▶ 3:02:33information, intelligence, movement, maneuver, fires, security and protection. And this has got to take place at the strategic level for decision-m operationally and linking those functions and on the tactical edge from swarming capabilities uh so that just just to increase the efficiency and the effectiveness of the force that we have far above what our adversaries can. Do you feel like we're ahead of the curve in that respect? uh you pay me to be never ahead of the curve.
▶ 3:03:03And so I, you know, I never view that we're ahead of the curve, too. I think we're doing some uh cutting edge things. I know that our adversaries are working on it, too. And you pay me to do those things better and faster than the other guys do. Thank you. Um still want to keep visiting. Uh changing course here. In October of 2023, the Defense Logistics Agency conducted a war game simulation known as Cameland.
▶ 3:03:29and that demonstrated severe domestic production capability gaps in the clothing and textile supply chain. And the war game also showed that DLA stockpiles were unable to fully mitigate wartime demand and would have resulted in the military personnel lacking uniforms, combat boots, and the corresponding physical There was language in the 25 uh year NDAA directing DoD to expedite this presidential determination um that action needed to be taken.
▶ 3:03:57And DoD has not requested a PD for items such as Americanmade body armor, ballistic helmets, ballistic plates, and organizational clothing and individual equipment. And I I know I'm catching you off guard perhaps so we can visit offline if we need to, but as a combatant commander, can you explain the impacts to your ability to conduct operations or even execute an operation plan in your AO without the materials and resources as discovered by the Camelan war game?
▶ 3:04:24And if presidential determination is granted allowing DA to use DPA Title 3 funds to help build the defense textile industrialbased capacity, would that give you the flexibility needed in your operational Congressman, from a wargaming standpoint, bad news is good news because we act on it and we run to the problem. As I've discussed earlier in my testimony, uh, World War II was won every bit as much on our ability to supply, to sustain the force as any.
▶ 3:04:52We frequently overlook items that we take for granted. This is why we do war games and uh, we embrace that data and it's it's our duty to act on it. I just want to thank you all. I'm very impressed and thank you for all you're doing for our nation. Keep up the great work. Thank you. Yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize gentle lady from Maryland, Miss. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for your service and thank you for being here today in this candid conversation.
▶ 3:05:20I'd like to follow up on some questions started by my my colleague from Virginia, Miss Kiggins, and and Miss Goodlander here. I'm really grateful to be on a committee that it has a bipartisan focus particularly on ship building. But equally important uh to ship building and our economy is the workforce that we discussed, but also ship maintenance and repair particularly. I don't know if you can do your job if we don't have a thoughtful strategy on on repair. So I'd like to I'd like to focus there.
▶ 3:05:47Admiral, you you mentioned earlier today about the defense industrial base and how we need to liberate long lead times of supply chains. And I kind of want to dig in to this as we're also talking about acquisition reform here that's much needed. U can you walk us through how how you are advising big Navy uh to better balance the need to have a robust investment stateside in our domestic shipyards while also ensuring that our ships can be maintained in a contested potentially contested environment in in Indo Indopaccom.
▶ 3:06:19Congresswoman, good morning. I think um the there are four drivers to uh to shipyards uh not not meeting rate and it is new unpredicted work. It's having to rework systems. It is the workforce efficiency and the availability of onhand supplies and we have to get better and faster more dataentric use AI tools in order to in order to anticipate problems and to do the data analytics to get better.
▶ 3:06:48Uh number two, we need a steady funding flow so the downstream suppliers can lead the long lead times. We need a diversification of the downstream suppliers, particularly take advantage of the promise of AI enabled additive manufacturing. And I've I've gone to these I've gone to places in Torrance, California, where I've just seen some cutting edge stuff. And we have to uh we have to quickly certify those systems in order to move faster.
▶ 3:07:18So, steady funding, database orientation to fixing our to fixing our problems in those four fields and diversifying our downrange supply chain and getting faster, getting simpler uh at the uh technical warrant holders in order to in order to get to that. That that's very helpful. I want to talk about prepositioning of equipment particularly again since uh you are uh far away from most of the any shipyard domestically adjacent.
▶ 3:07:47So, it's my understanding that of late the military's done a better job or made progress on prepositioning of equipment uh at in parts at bases and depots in in your region but across the world. But just yesterday, and I don't mean to catch you off guard, I would just love your genuine feedback here, the Army issued a stop work order on efforts to maintain these pre-positioned stocks, the hard to get supplies for for various reasons here.
▶ 3:08:12Um, how critical is your ability to have this pre-positioned equipment to your ability to operate during a conflict, particularly in a high area denial environment? Prepositioning is what gains you leverage on the initial deployment of capability and so kind of so the speed of getting capability there to get that head start on that. Everything in the 21st century moves much much faster. So the more relevant gear that we can get forward the better.
▶ 3:08:40Um uh you're you're likely talking about uh a army positioning stock three and um on that front um I work closely with the department on the army as well about identifying what are the really relevant air missile space uh maritime capabilities because the army does play in the maritime game uh that that should be prepositioned and how are we gaining the authority to position those in places so that we can respond to that to that change.
▶ 3:09:09And so I I think it's an ongoing process as we make those calculations. Um I prefer that it was mission reasons why we didn't versus fiscal reasons. And I work very closely with the services to uh advocate that the only that the only reason that we don't position something forward is for reasons of mission and not uh not to save a buck because I you know Indopayom is not the place to go for your savings, right? And also preparedness will ultimately save us money down the road.
▶ 3:09:40Save us uh money, lives, lives, capability, people, and time. In that order, thank you. With my remaining seconds, uh Mr. No, I want to follow up on my colleague uh from Hawaii's conversation. I represent the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, which is uh going to be underwater in a matter of decades. Now thankfully uh the Navy is preparing for that.
▶ 3:10:04But I also would would be remiss if I did not urge this administration to take seriously the rising tides that are coming not just for the academy but across our installations. And with that, Mr. Chair, I yield my time back. Gentlemen yields back. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Benman. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh I have the privilege of being the last and I congratulate you all on sitting through this long hearing and thank you for your service. and uh fleet master chief, I congratulate you on your upcoming retirement.
▶ 3:10:34It's great to serve, but it's also great to be retired. So, uh China, Russia, and North Korea, and Iran represent decades long alignment of leading authoritarian states. They represent really the antithesis of American values and ideals.
▶ 3:10:48In many ways, recently Iran has been weakened in its Middle East um conflict with Israel and Russia in its protracted engagement uh on Ukraine so much so that they could not reinforce their bases in Syria and um had to mostly withdraw. Admiral Paparo, does this access of authoritarians demonstrate an increased threat environment inside and outside of Indopace, including to our homeland? Congressman, unequivocally yes.
▶ 3:11:19Um, does helping Ukraine remain a strong sovereign independent country weaken Russia in this access? Sir, um Russian's failure andor Russia's success will have a direct correlation on deterrence in the Pacific and Russia is a significant threat in the Indo Pacific and I agree and I think it's the best observable way to weaken Russia uh rather than trying to entice them with uh some sort of carrot approach.
▶ 3:11:47Um, in fact, uh, this weakening of this access, two members of access, comes at no cost in American service member lives, although there have been Americans that have gone over and volunteered and and tragically lost their lives in Ukraine. Uh, but it does come at a cost in material and treasure. And as a 25-y year army vet, um, that's what I call a good deal. So, uh, Mr. No, unlike the United States, there's no daylight between China's commercial and military sectors.
▶ 3:12:17Um they're one and the same in many ways. You mentioned to my colleagues that you don't look at tariffs. However, because uh the military and commercial sectors are intertwined, um then in your role and certainly the secretary must take the impact of tariffs into consideration. I mean, I think back on history and and the US oil embargo on Japan and the uh prelude to uh World War II and Russia's attack, Japan's attack on on Pearl Harbor.
▶ 3:12:46In your assessment, um does this constitute a major escalation with China um and escalate military tensions? Congressman, I I will talk about what I know and what I've been working on, which is that the department has been uh moving quickly at the direction of our Secretary of Defense to strengthen our posture, to strengthen our alliances and partnerships uh uh with our allies and partners throughout the region to to reestablish deterrence and to deter China.
▶ 3:13:16Uh so we've been doing so and we will continue to do so. So, I mean, has the department conducted a risk assessment um of the administration's tariffs impact on on the the risk of additional conflict or potential conflict with China? And does the department have a uh will the department do so?
▶ 3:13:42Uh, congressman, I'm I'm not uh uh I'm not sure if the department has conducted such an assessment. That's something I can take back. Okay, I encourage you to do so if we're choking them off um economically um and they've already indicated an intent to to seize Taiwan um where seems like we might be further driving them into an aggressive posture against us.
▶ 3:14:07So something we should look at certainly from the department's Now looking at the impact of tariffs on on our partners, we're we're asking our partners to raise um their spending to 5%.
▶ 3:14:20If we're at the same time we're we're looking at the the risk of a a global recession and and a US recession, um what what are the chances that they're going to be able to increase their spending in in a in a recessionary Uh, Congressman, uh, Secretary Heath has, uh, communicated, uh, the message, uh, not only during his visit to the Indoacific, uh, in Japan
▶ 3:14:50and the Philippines, but with, uh, when speaking with counterparts throughout the region that they need to step up and do more. Um, and I understand that. But what I'm asking you to do, and you may not be prepared to answer this now, and I don't have much time left, but I encourage you to look at what the imposition of these tariffs does to the request to increase spending. So, thank you. And I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Davis.
▶ 3:15:20Thank you so much, uh, Mr. chair and I believe I might get to be the last one today uh before you but thank you so much for your patience and being before us today um to um Admiral Paparo to General Brunson and to Now any deterrence or offensive maneuvers in the Indo-Pacific region require resilient and modernized amphibious fleet.
▶ 3:15:48Newport News shipyard great hope of revitalizing the domestic ship building industry employs more than a thousand residents in North Carolina's first congressional district. um we go AC right across the line and um this becomes a very important pipeline uh for us and I've listened and heard your re remarks and so far when we talk about workforce data AI um you know looking for a steady
▶ 3:16:18um funding flow um going through the certification process and all the concepts and ideas as you reflect on where we need to What would you say is the greatest challenge if there was one or two for manpower sir? Yes. Uh the greatest challenge is pay. It's being able to out to be able to out compete other employers that match the work and the work is not as arduous as tough.
▶ 3:16:49And so when we're competing with a uh a job that's um you know just not as hard on the uh you know I just say you know it's a shipyard work is a uh is hard trade work and uh you can't you can't compete with a services type industry um on equal pay. Yeah. I just want to follow up.
▶ 3:17:13Um, how is NOPACOM partnering with, for instance, Transcom to balance older foreignade vessels with procuring new ships to maximize sea lift capability? Well, first we we collaborate as a military seal lift command, the the component of uh of uh of transcom. Um, we hire out uh console tankers uh to be able to hire commercial providers to be able to take up some of that uh capability.
▶ 3:17:44We uh hire out commercial air services to execute tanking airborne. And we do, you know, a great deal of movement via uh contracted air. But in the unforgiving hour, uh, the best way that we're going to be able to get to contested areas is with gray halls and gray tails for our ships and for our aircraft. Yeah. Well, I want to again thank the witnesses for being here and Mr.
▶ 3:18:12Chair, we're going to yield back the balance of the time. Gentleman yields. Chair recognizes the ranking member. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to follow up a little bit on some of the earlier comments around the tariff thing. Not trying to be excessively argumentative, but I'm curious about the the answer to this question. So, the premise that was given us is that basically the reason we're doing all the tariffs is we have bad relationships with all of these countries. It they're they're using us in essence. Um it is not a mutually beneficial relationship.
▶ 3:18:40It's one where we're given too much and they're taking too much. Um and that's at least a theory. Um but I'm just curious, General Brunson, you work with South Korea. Do you view our relationship with South Korea as mutually beneficial or do you think they're taking advantage of us? Congressman, I I view it as mutually beneficial. Thank you. And and Admiral Paul Power, are you It's tougher with you because you got a whole bunch of different countries to worry about.
▶ 3:19:06Um but is there a country out there that you think is taking advantage of us that we're partnering with and Australia, Philippines, Japan, Taiwan, any of these places? So do you view our relationships with these countries right now you know prior to all the current you know contested stuff is it mutually beneficial or are we being taken advantage of? Rank member from my seat with the military instrument it is mutually bene beneficial. So and and Mr.
▶ 3:19:34I know you ducked all of this um because you know DoD doesn't put tariffs in place but it is a whole of government thing as you said in your statements you know in diplomacy development certainly trade and business is is is important part of it impacts your job I mean it clearly impact if we have an antagonistic relationship with a country in Admiral Papara's region I would trust that you would think about that I mean what you do about it
▶ 3:20:04is highly debatable, but it's not really your answer that tariffs and trade relationships have nothing to do with our national security interests or with the Department of Defense's mission in the Indoacific, is it? Uh, ranking member, I will speak to what I know, which is the defense relationship that we have, the relationships we have with our allies and partners throughout the region. Uh, in that regard, uh, um, we have strong, very strong relationships.
▶ 3:20:33Uh and like I indicated earlier, the engagements that I've personally had, that I've seen the secretary uh have with his uh counterparts all indicate that we have uh very strong relationships. So you would not say that we're being taken advantage of by these countries. You would view the relationships, much as Admiral Paparo and General Brunson have said, as mutually beneficial. I I'll say two things, rank member.
▶ 3:20:57one uh they are mutually beneficial but two our allies and partners absolutely need to do more and that means spend more uh that means buy uh more of the right capabilities uh to strengthen our deterrence posture uh so there's absolutely more that they can be doing do we need to do more we all need to do more ranking member so it is a mutually beneficial relationship and the last thing and I know you are in an acting position I confess I didn't look to see if somebody has been picked yet for for your position.
▶ 3:21:27So, I know you're not going to be there in a little while, but for everyone listening, for everyone involved, it's just not an acceptable answer for the Department of Defense to say, "Well, that's not us. We're not paying any attention to it." Um, and I'm not going to pin you down whether or not you support it or not. But it definitely is connected to our mission in the region to have all of this interrelated. And it really frightens me to think that you're like, "Well, the State Department's doing their thing, you know, the trade folks are doing their thing, and we're over here, and we really don't pay any attention to them." That's not the right approach.
▶ 3:21:57Um, it definitely needs to be more interrelated with that. And thank I I thank the chairman for his indulgence and I yield back. Thank the gentleman. Chair and I recognize a gentle lady from South Carolina, Miss Mace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. The Indopacific region is a dynamic region strategically critical to the United States, as you all know, and our national security.
▶ 3:22:18China's rapid military expansion, significant advancements in technology and cyber warfare, and its aggressive pursuit of economic and political influence represent its very aggressive and calculated effort to reshape the region and to displace the United States. We now recognize that a formidable adversary is systematically working to undermine our influence and reshape the region. President Trump is committed to ensuring peace through strength, and Congress must act to ensure the department is resourced to meet the challenges we face.
▶ 3:22:48through increased capabilities, robust partnerships will create a network of deterrence that can effectively counterbalance the CCP's malignant goals, and dare I say, we have a president who's the strongest president we've seen in my lifetime. Um, who can stand up to Xi Jinping, stand up to uh communist China and the threats that they are pursuing against the United States and our allies. The challenges we face in the Indo-Pacific region are not fleeting. We've got to respond with a comprehensive whole of government approach.
▶ 3:23:18Our strategy must be defined by preparedness, innovation, capability, and also swiftness, decisive action, being nimble, being fast, which is something we are uh we need to work on these days. As you all know, the PLA has made significant progress towards fielding a joint force that's capable of challenging the US in every domain. So, my first question is to Admiral Paparo today. There have been many reports on the staggering pace of the PLA's Navy uh ship building activities. How does the US ship building measure up?
▶ 3:23:49Congresswoman, the PLA is building surface combatants at the rate of six per year. Uh the United States is are building surface compatants at the rate of 1.6 per year. PLA is building 200 or two submarines per year. Uh the United States is is uh is producing 1.28 28 presently attack submarines per year. We're working on our on Colombia class SSB.
▶ 3:24:13How does the quality of the Chinese manufacturing of their naval uh ships and um submarines compared to the US? I think um from a capability standpoint, just numerically they're not as capable on range. You know, the SM2, SM3, SM6 dominates their capability. The Tomahawk land attack missile dominates their capability. Our sonars are are uh are better.
▶ 3:24:42Spy 6 radar is going to be a better radar. Our ships are more capable from a tonnage standpoint. They're more capable from a weapon standpoint. And in the electromagnetic spectrum and then in the event of a conflict, do we have the do we have sufficient navy naval yard capacity to repair and refit our vessels? I assess we do not, Congresswoman. And what do we need? I mean, how quickly do we need to move on that?
▶ 3:25:07We need to fire up more shipyards and we need to fire up more ship ship making capability unequivocally. Um, how would you rate the PLA's ability to conduct joint operations between the Ara naval forces with the First Island chain, inferior to the United States in every way, working to get better every single day. And I see the palpable progress. And how does that affect their anti-access area denial strategy?
▶ 3:25:32uh they get better at it and it requires me to counter it, us to counter it uh more effectively. But uh they're getting better at it. They're proliferating more and they're getting more and more joint in their exercises and more farther a field. And they we've all seen them. They they they engage in destabilizing uh behavior in the South China Sea uh as they seek to advance expansive territorial claims. It's increasingly resorted to non-militarized tactics to bully their neighbors. Uh Mr.
▶ 3:26:01know how is the department working with partners to increase their capability to withstand the CCP's coercive actions in the South China Sea. Uh Congresswoman, we're doing uh a great deal in the South China Sea to work with our allies and partners to uh to strengthen our posture to enhance their capabilities. Uh I think one good example is the Philippines. We're conducting monthly bilateral operations with the Philippines. We provide them ISR support.
▶ 3:26:29When did we increase that the joint operations? How long has that been going on? The increased frequency with them. The exact timeline. Congresswoman, I I will have to get back to you on that. Yes, sir. Congresswoman, um we've greatly expanded uh the Balakatan series, the Solak NIB series, the archip archipelagic defense concept defense continuum series, and we're working towards heelto toe exercises with the Philippines at greater numbers and with greater joint and combined capability and
▶ 3:26:59bringing in more partners, Japan, Australia, among others. It seems to have being more effective particularly the last two years, I would argue. But uh thank you so much, gentlemen, for being here today, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentle yields back. This concludes the open portion of this hearing. We will reconvene in room 2212 at 11:15. This hearing is