▶ 0:13:23The committee will please come to order. A quorum is present. The committee meets today pursuant to notice. Today we'll consider the committee print to comply with the reconciliation directives included in section 2001B 3 of HCRES 14, the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2025, otherwise known as the student success and taxpayer savings plan.
▶ 0:13:51The chair announces that requests for recorded votes may be postponed pursuant to clause two of rule 11 of the rules of the House of Representatives and committee rule 14B. Without objection, the chair may recess the committee at point.
▶ 0:14:10the student success and taxpayers plan, savings plan, which saves over $350 billion to help advance President Trump's agenda to provide tax relief for American families and small businesses, reign in wasteful spending, and reduce the federal budget deficit. It's no secret that spending in Washington has been a disaster.
▶ 0:14:36Waste, fraud, and abuse has left the American taxpayer on the hook for government bloat and ineffective programs as our national debt races past 36 trillion. Since day one, President Trump has been crystal clear in his priorities to bring tangible reform to this broken system.
▶ 0:14:58The budget reconciliation process gives us a key opportunity to rightsize this sinking ship and implement the American first agenda. If there is any consensus when it comes to student loans is that the current system is effectively broken and littered with incentives that push tuition prices upward.
▶ 0:15:26Schools have no reason to lower costs or ensure degrees align with employer needs. All while students and taxpayers pay the price. Real college prices have tripled since the baby boomers went to school. And real college graduate earnings have frozen since the turn of century.
▶ 0:15:49This all culminates in students holding over $1.6 6 trillion dollars in f in in federal student loan debt with taxpayers estimated to lose hundreds of billions of dollars on loans dispersed over the next decade. The Biden Harris administration's foolish actions in the federal student loan program exacerbated this budgetary catastrophe.
▶ 0:16:18Instead of tangible reforms to address these issues, the Biden Harris administration attempted to spend an additional $1 trillion in taxpayer funds on so-called forgiveness by executive From their radical save loan repayment plan to the neverending repayment pause, Democrats are intent on forcing taxpayers to pay for free college.
▶ 0:16:48Dumping more federal money into a broken system doesn't mean that system will work. In fact, government spending on higher education has reached record highs. Yet millions of students benefiting from those funds will ultimately end up with a degree that doesn't pay off or fail to finish school altogether.
▶ 0:17:15This bill set forth by committee Republicans not only would save taxpayers over billion, but also bring much neededed reform to three key key areas. simplified loan repayment, streamlined student loan options, and accountability for students taxpayers.
▶ 0:17:38The bill cleans up the mess that the Democrat created repayment crisis, including for the millions of borrowers who are in limbo awaiting court decisions stemming from President Biden's radical and illegal rewrite of the law.
▶ 0:17:55Moreover, moreover, it simplifies and improves the system going forward by streamlining repayment options and providing targeted assistance to struggling borrowers who need it rather than blanket bailites bailouts for those who don't. These reforms will encourage responsible borrowing and timely repayment.
▶ 0:18:17It's no secret that some colleges have exploited the availability of uncapped federal lending and generous forgiveness programs to raise prices rather than improve access and Streamlining loan options as uh done in this bill will increase affordability for students and families as well as curtail the extent to which schools use taxpayer dollars to line their pocketbooks by loading students up with debt they can't
▶ 0:18:47repay. Finally, the bill ensures that hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars no longer flow unchecked to low value institutions and programs by holding colleges accountable for student outcomes, by requiring schools to have skin in the game.
▶ 0:19:06The carrot and stick approach taken in this bill will hold colleges financially accountable for the loans they give out and reward those institutions who go above and beyond to provide highquality, affordable and accessible education opportunities. Higher education is at an inflection point. We are on a fiscally unsustainable path. So we must deliver on the promise of economic mobility to our students and families.
▶ 0:19:36Taken together, the provisions in this package will do just that. Taxpayers need our help. I urge my colleagues to pass this reconciliation bill. And with that, I yield to the ranking member for his opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in this town, there's a saying that if you want to see someone's values, show me their budget.
▶ 0:20:00Regrettably, the reconciliation plan that has come before us today reveals a betrayal of the promise that Lyndon B. Johnson, President Johnson made when he signed the Higher Education Act back in 1965. He said, and I quote, that the signing of this means that a high school senior anywhere in this great land of ours can apply to any college or any university in any of the 50 states and not be turned away because their family is poor.
▶ 0:20:30When signing the higher education act, America design demonstrated its values. uh that is that the federal government will help students seeking higher education, higher learning aspirations and opportunities. This is why just a few decades ago, the Pell Grant covered 80% of the cost of attending a state college.
▶ 0:20:51And with this financial support, America promoted higher education and is making great strides to support the value of a liberal arts education, which improves critical thinking, enhances an appreciation for and exalts the values of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Over the course of the last couple of decades, however, there's been an open hostility to higher learning.
▶ 0:21:14We've seen the disinvestment in higher education so that the Pell Grant now covers about onethird of the cost of attending a state college. And we also saw some questionable for-profit schemes masquerading as institutions of higher learning, skyrocketing tuition and passing out worthless credentials. And it's not just my opinion. Just consider the poll that shows that 58% of Republicans distrust higher education.
▶ 0:21:41And now if this reconciliation plan becomes law, President Johnson's promise of of income not being a barrier to higher education will be make sure that will ensure that higher education will be out of reach for millions more Americans. So, let me say emphatically that I appreciate that my colleagues acknowledge that the cost of college is too high and that Congress should help to reform the system.
▶ 0:22:07But the committee uh the committee print before us today will cut $330 billion in student aid that seriously misses the mark of making college more affordable. This current reconciliation plan would increase costs for colleges and students.
▶ 0:22:25It'll limit students access to quality programs which should then reduce their likelihood of finding a rewarder rewarding or successful career and then take the so-called savings to pay for more tax cuts to the wealthy and the well-connected. So, let me first start with the misleading idea that this bill reduces costs. I mean, there's certainly no incentive for colleges the way the bill is constructed. If you're below the median median cost, there's actually an incentive to increase your costs.
▶ 0:22:56Most of the provisions target targeted towards reducing federal student aid exacerbate college affordability crisis by limiting the students access to fell grant and federal loans and then pushing them to the only thing that may be left if they want to go to college and that is predatory private loans. Put bluntly, the Republican plan will limit how much money middle and low-income students can borrow from the federal government.
▶ 0:23:21As a result, limiting the federal student aid that students can receive means that millions of students will not be able to access federal assistance that they need to complete their degrees. Moreover, this bill would force student borrowers into unaffordable repayment plans. Rather than streamlining the path to repayment, this bill would require students to pay more and be in repayment longer.
▶ 0:23:46For example, a single borrower making $45,000 a year would the payment would nearly triple under the Save Act, which was Biden's final plan. The borrower would have been paying $41 a month. Now, under this Republican plan, incomedriven repayment plan, they would pay $150 a month.
▶ 0:24:09And also, instead of paying off their loans in as little as 10 years, uh they would not be eligible for any loan forgiveness for 30 years. The next the bill would make it more expensive to go to college and also reduce students access to quality programs by eliminating by eliminating the 9010 rule. Uh the bill eliminates the very regulations that protect students and taxpayers from predatory low-quality for-profit programs.
▶ 0:24:38These very same programs that disproportionately target veterans and low-income students and defraud them out of their federal student aid. Removing the state guards would expose students to to students and taxpayers to waste, fraud, and abuse. And if we should remember that ultimately students and taxpayers will bear the brunt of those costs.
▶ 0:25:00The reconciliation bill will cut access to higher education for students and also will will shower wealthy the wealthy with massive tax cuts. This is not our value and that's why Democrats will impose this bill and encourage Republican colleagues to join us.
▶ 0:25:19And finally today, we're also prepared to debate HRES 344, a resolution allowing Congress to ask the administration very basic questions about why it is planning to dismantle the administration on community living. the offen office that administers very popular bipartisan programs such as Meals on Wheels that seniors and people with disabilities live independently and with that help seniors and people with disabilities live independently and with dignity.
▶ 0:25:50However, my colleagues are so unwilling to even ask questions about the administration of what their plans are that they're in the process of changing House rules. rule came out of the rules committee last night that would prevent the committees to demand accountability to our administration and its service to the American people.
▶ 0:26:10Reasonable minds can only conclude that stripping the demand for answers to this of to of this administration shields people on the other side of the aisle from taking a public position on accountability. Not just doing something, but just merely asking the question. And so I hope to work with you, Mr. chairman to ensure that ACL and other programs are protected, but at least we get to know what is going on.
▶ 0:26:37An important step would be to hold a hearing on the proposed HHS reorganization that I've requested and in conjunction with every member, Democratic member on this committee. But prior to that, we should at least ask questions of what the plans are just as HRES 344 requires the administration to respond to. Um, so Mr. Mr. Chair, when will we consider that resolution? And I yield to you.
▶ 0:27:07All I can say the sooner that opportunity could possibly come would be as a result of ending this reconciliation markup today as quickly as possible. Well, reclaiming my time, Mr. Chairman, I I would hope we would take it up and you would join us in asking questions about what's going on in the administration.
▶ 0:27:29People trying to live independently uh with disabilities, seniors and frailty through through age uh depend on programs like meals on wheels and we just like to know what's the plan is to um um to dissolve that agency. I would hope that you would join me in asking the question what's going on. And with that, Mr.
▶ 0:27:51Chairman, I yield I thank the gentlemen and you can be assured that we will take take your seriously. Without objection, all the members who wish to insert written opening statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically by the end of the day today.
▶ 0:28:18Pursuant to House rules, a copy of the text to be marked up was made available to members and the public at least 24 hours in advance. The committee print being marked up today shall be open to amendments at any point and the chair will allow members to offer amendments in a manner not prohibited by house or committee rules.
▶ 0:28:39Without objection, members who have more than one amendment to the measures and wish to offer their amendments unblock may do The committee will now proceed to consideration of the committee print to comply with reconciliation directives in 2001B3 of HCRES 14, the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2025 for amendment.
▶ 0:29:08The measure was circulated in advance and printed copies are available. The clerk shall designate the Committee print providing for reconciliation pursuant to H. Conres 14, the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2025. Without objection, the first reading of the measure is with.
▶ 0:29:32Without objection, the measure will be considered as read and open uh for amendment at any point and any amendment offered shall be considered as I now recognize myself to offer an amendment in the nature of a substitute. The clerk shall designate the amendment in the nature of a substitute. Amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Wahberg of Michigan identifier reconc_01.
▶ 0:30:07Without objection, the amendment shall be considered original text for purposes of further amendment. The amendment in the nature of a substitute has already been distributed. I now recognize myself for five minutes to explain the amendment in the nature of a substitute. I can't emphasize this enough. The Biden Harris administration took a federal loan system already in need of reform and completely shattered it.
▶ 0:30:36After four disastrous years, they led students on and left them behind a student loan crisis without working with Congress on any real solutions. For decades, college costs have increased faster than nearly every other good or service in the economy.
▶ 0:30:55At both public and private nonprofit schools, published tuition rates have quint quintupled in real terms since 1970. This is not due to a lack of government financial aid. A recent study found that external financial aid for the average student has actually tripled since 1990. But institutions also raised their net prices, resulting in those aid dollars being captured.
▶ 0:31:26Like a dog chasing cars, the Biden Harris administration was determined to keep pouring taxpayer funds into the abyss in a feudal attempt to keep up with the unacceptable and unaccountable institutional prices. The Biden Harris administration attempted to spend over a trillion dollars on illegal debt forgiveness instead of lowering prices.
▶ 0:31:50The CBO estimated that because of these actions, students would now likely have to borrow 10 to 15 billion dollars more each year just to afford college because institutions will continue to raise their prices knowing that taxpayers will foot the bill. Democrats continually make empty promises about college affordability without addressing student outcomes or fiscal realities.
▶ 0:32:18One very clear example is the Pell Grant. The Pell Grant has long been a cornerstone for federal student aid that enjoys bipartisan support and is a tool to target aid to the neediest students. Unfortunately, the PEL program is in dire straits. According to Congressional Budget Office, the program now faces 70 to$100 billion dollar shortfall in the next 10 years.
▶ 0:32:45Congress must act now or risk serious cuts down the road. It's also important for PEL students to achieve good outcomes and graduate on time to reduce debt. Unfortunately, there are no real incentives for institutions to promote this. Each year, billions of dollars in PEL grants go to students who will never graduate.
▶ 0:33:08Studies have found that roughly half of students receiving PEL grants do not graduate within six years. Despite this, Democrats continually propose massive spending on other policies, including expansion of taxpayer subsidies for graduate loans and even free college for illegal Fortunately, reforms in this bill ensure the Pell Grant contributes to strong student
▶ 0:33:39outcomes, goes forward, goes toward families and students in need, and remains fiscally sustainable. The bill closes loopholes in eligibility to ensure PEL money is not siphoned off from those truly in need. The bill also incentivizes program completion to keep PEL students firmly on a path towards graduation to avoid excess debt while providing non-traditional students the flexibility needed to complete their coursework.
▶ 0:34:09The bill The bill gives more low-income students economic mobility by expanding PEL grants to short-term credential programs and exempts farmers and small business owners from being unfairly penalized. Importantly, the bill's accountability metrics will put downward pressure on college costs, allowing PEL dollars to cover a higher percentage of tuition.
▶ 0:34:35It also rewards institutions for enrolling and graduating PEL students in high-erforming lowcost programs. Finally, the the bill replenishes the PEL program with billions plugging the lo the l the looming Bell uh budgetary shortfall completely until fiscal year 2027 with an additional 2.5 billion increase for fiscal year 2028.
▶ 0:35:02CBO calculates that reforms in this bill will slash the projected shortfall and ensure students receive the maximum award that they are eligible for. The reforms in the bill provide real solutions to the PEL shortfall, lower college costs, and keep PEL students on track for strong outcomes. The time is now to promote student success for all students, but especially PEL students.
▶ 0:35:29My amendment makes a small technical implementation change to the underlying bill. I urge my colleagues to adopt the amendment and support the underlying bill and I yield back. Are there any members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment and the nature of a substitute? Mr. Chairman, I recognize the ranking member for his comments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 0:35:51Chairman, I speak in opposition to the ANS and as I highlighted in my opening remarks, the ANS does not meaningfully address the affordability issues of today's student borrower. This proposal fars falls short of any meaningful college affordability support for students. Instead, hang students out to drive to make up for tax cuts for B billionaires. Mr. Chairman, this starts off bad and gets worse.
▶ 0:36:17You cap student aid at the median cost of college, which means that those who attend a program with a cost above the median, which arithmetically means half of all programs in the country, would be pushed into the private loan market or not attend college at all.
▶ 0:36:35if they're not not able to attend access to the private market simply because they may need more financial support to cover the basic needs like housing, child care, and transportation at a time when families are struggling to make ends meet. I'm confused as why we're making it harder for working parents who are trying to further their education and at the same time make ends meet. Bill also attempts to streamline repayment options by offering two plans.
▶ 0:37:04However, it leaves most vulnerable borrowers in worse repayment uh options. Many borrowers will end up with their payments doubling or even tripling under this new plan. But the repayment option is not the only issue for borrowers under this under this plan. I'm particularly alarmed at the tax on the PE Pell Grant program and the unaffordable repayment options for struggling borrowers.
▶ 0:37:27But we also see that the bill has a different um different impact higher limit the scheme to limit higher education access and decrease affordability. The PEL grant has been the consistent cornerstone for student aid for years and actually decades and we ought to be fighting every opportunity we can to expand this powerful tool and provide better college access to low-income students.
▶ 0:37:56Instead, we we're here making it harder for many students, particularly harm part-time students who um are actually denied PEL grants altogether, making it impossible for people who are trying to work uh and also go to school and can only take um a handful of courses. They get no help at all. Uh furthermore, I'm appalled that the bill wipes out virtually every single consumer protection rule that has been put in place to help student borrowers.
▶ 0:38:25Essentially, one of the major ones is the 9010 rule and the borrower defense to repayment eliminating uh and and in the bill it says the secretary can't promagate any other rules that uh would replace them. uh gainful employment, make sure that the courses and job training actually train people for for jobs. The 9010 rule uh provides that uh the schools have to get some of their income outside of the federal government.
▶ 0:38:55Others you've had before the 9010 rule, some schools had no income outside of the federal government and they tended to be fairly lowquality programs. Borrows defense to repayment. If you've been defrauded in your education, there are provisions that you don't have to pay back your student loan, that's eliminated. And again, the secretary is not allowed to reeregulate in this area. Uh I don't know why that provision is in there.
▶ 0:39:25It's vital that the secretary have the authority to develop and implement strong and robust consumer protection policies that protect students from unscrupulous actors, hold account hold institutions accountable for waste, fraud, and abuse, and make defrauded borrowers whole. Affordable opportunities for college access should not be only for those available should not only be available for those that have money. This is exactly what the bill before us does.
▶ 0:39:54makes college access harder for everyday Americans. And therefore, my Democratic colleagues and I will offer amendments, many of them being historically bipartisan proposals such as safeguarding PEL grants, enhancing public service loan forgiveness in order to protect and enhance the benefits of federal student aid and address many other affordable affordability and challenges facing these students today. and I hope all of the members will support those amendments.
▶ 0:40:24I strongly urge my colleagues to support the Republican amendment of substitute and yield back the balance of my time. I thank the gentleman. I would make note that that 50% of people being out of the help of of uh funding isn't accurate. The actual number is 93% of students coming under these provisions will not be affected in a negative way. This legislation will work for them.
▶ 0:40:54I now recognize a gentleman Wisconsin, Representative Growthman. I I just like to comment briefly on on the pal. I think I've told this anecdote before, but I've always kind of uh remembered it whenever anybody feels we ought to put any additional people on the pel.
▶ 0:41:14Um, in my tea party days, I would talk about problems we have and that so many many many programs uh primarily go to people who aren't working a lot and who are not married to somebody with an income.
▶ 0:41:32Um, so I I gave my pitch on a variety of government programs, one of which was PEL and afterward and of course the audience was sympathetic with me um because they were largely older conservative guys, but I always wondered what the younger generation felt about it.
▶ 0:41:52And um I brought up a uh there there was a a bartender there um and I asked her, she's maybe 25 years old, what she thought of of my presentation. And she pointed out that she and her husband got married first before they had children, but none of her friends were get uh were getting married because if they didn't get married, they got free college.
▶ 0:42:20Uh, and it occurred to me from this 25-year-old woman that the PEL program, because it wasn't eligible for people who were married to somebody with a decent income and wasn't eligible for people who didn't work that much, therefore um um had some incentives there uh that caused her to have none of her friends get married uh when they went to college. So, I'm always a little bit skeptical of any additions to the PEL grants. Thank you.
▶ 0:42:54I thank the gentleman. I recognize the gentle lady from Georgia, Miss McMath. Thank you, chairman. Um, I speak today on behalf of the millions of working people. I think we need to move the mic closer to you. Uh, we want to hear your comments. Thank you.
▶ 0:43:16I speak today on behalf of the millions of working people and families across the country who are struggling under the weight of a cost of living crisis and seemingly endless debt. It has become far too expensive for the average person in this country to get the skills necessary to simply provide a decent life for themselves and for their families. And this will only make that problem worse.
▶ 0:43:45There are members of the majority who had millions of dollars in PPP loans forgiven but refused to help nurses and teachers afford the training needed to do some of the most important jobs in our society. That simply is wrong. Time and time again, Republicans ask the American people to listen to what they say, but ignore what they do.
▶ 0:44:13To ignore the stocks they trade and the loans and the government contracts that they secure for themselves and Elon Musk while they ask everyday people to buckle down and make really hard sacrifices. Before coming to Congress, I was a flight attendant for 30 years. So, I know what it's like being a single working mother. I know what it's like to struggle to make ends meet.
▶ 0:44:42And instead of doing anything to make life more affordable, like capping interest rates or lowering monthly payments, Republicans want everyday Americans to pay more. They want you to pay more for something as basic as getting a good job.
▶ 0:45:02The majority claims to want people to gain marketable skills and, in their words, become productive members of society, but are actively making that harder for us to achieve. At a time when Americans are looking for some breathing room, the majority seems to be doing everything that it can to squeeze them as much as possible. And for what?
▶ 0:45:29to extend tax cuts for Americans who are already doing well while they make life more expensive and fake outrage over a deficit that they themselves are responsible for making worse. I would like to remind everyone in this room that that is a choice.
▶ 0:45:53The majority is actively choosing to make life more expensive and increase the national debt that they claim to care so much about. They are actively choosing to cut Pell grants for the lowest income students and families in country. The American people are tired of their broken promises.
▶ 0:46:17They are tired of being asked to give more and more and more of themselves while it gets harder and more expensive to acquire the skills necessary just to make a decent living. I encourage all of my colleagues to consciously oppose this bill and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady. Now I recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina, Miss Adams. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:46:48Uh, I move to strike the last word speak in You're recognized. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Chair, let let's be very clear about what we're doing here today. This bill is not about budgeting. It's about policym and it's policym that would devastate students, families, and the very institutions that we should be fighting to strengthen. So, let's start with student loans.
▶ 0:47:11Right now, millions of students rely on Grad Plus and Parent Plus loans to pursue higher education and yes, to chase the American dream. But this bill would either eliminate those programs without offering any real alternatives. And who pays the price? Black and Latino students who already borrow more for graduate school. Low-income parents who take on debt that they'll carry into retirement.
▶ 0:47:37families who just want to help their kids build a better future. Instead of fixing what's broken in the loan system, like high interest rates and unfair repayment options, this bill takes a sledgehammer to it. And it doesn't stop there. This bill also introduces so-called risk sharing, forcing colleges to to pay penalties if their students struggle if their students are struggling with loans.
▶ 0:48:04Now, on paper, that might seem uh sound like accountability, but in practice, it's discrimination. It's what I call PPP, punishing poor people. Because here's the reality. 77% of H.B.CU would be hit with risk sharing penalties.
▶ 0:48:23At North Carolina ENT, the largest H.B.CU BCU in the nation, my alma mada, they could lose nearly $4 million a year across the the 1890 land grant HB.CU that the average projected loss would be $1.7 million annually.
▶ 0:48:40And so we're talking about draining millions of dollars out of the very institutions that have built the black middle class, the very institutions that that welcome first generation low-income students and say you belong here. And what happens when you penalize schools for for taking a chance on students who need the most support? You shrink opportunity. You shut the door. You tell colleges only admit students who already had every advantage. Well, that's not education.
▶ 0:49:10That's gatekeeping. And if that weren't enough, this bill also detrimentally weakens the Pell Grant program. It changes the definition of full-time enrollment to 30 credits a year, punishing part-time students who are working, caregiving, and hustling just to stay afloat. Millions of students, community college students, working parents, rural students would lose 20% or more of their their PEL aid under this plan.
▶ 0:49:40And many would lose PEL altogether. This is not fiscal This is cruelty. This is plain and simple cruelty. A and let's not kid ourselves. Black and Latino students, first generation college students, students from rural communities. Again, these are the students who would be hit the hardest. Mr.
▶ 0:50:04Chairman, I spent my life in education and I've seen what happens when we invest in students and and what happens when we abandon them. And so this bill would make college more expensive, more exclusive, and and and less attainable for millions. It would strip opportunity away while hand handing tax cuts to the wealthiest few. It is reckless. It is shortsighted and it is wrong.
▶ 0:50:31And so if we're serious about building a stronger future, a future where opportunity is real and education is a bridge and not a barrier, then we must reject this bill. So I urge my colleagues, vote no. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Now I recognize gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move to strike the last word. You're recognized. Uh thank you. Make make no mistake.
▶ 0:50:58At a time when higher education is under attack, this bill is another assault. Instead of making higher education more accessible and affordable, with this bill, committee Republicans are gutting federal financial aid. The bill completely eliminates subsidized student loans and direct plus loans for what? So Republicans can pay for tax cuts for billionaires.
▶ 0:51:22The proposed cap on federal student aid would automatically prevent about half of all students from accessing the funds they need to complete their degrees. And I know the chairman said it's going to help 93%. You don't have to be a math major to know that that's not what median means. This is a serious issue. The bill also limit eliminates uh and limits sorry. The bill limits the only source of federal support for graduate education. So unless you're rich, you're going to struggle to further your education.
▶ 0:51:49I just heard from a small private college in the district I represent and the president said she's extremely concerned about how the proposed elimination of grad plus loans and the reduction of the amount of unsubsidized graduate loans would affect their students. They educate a lot of people who go into health careers. It will result in fewer health care providers in Northwest Oregon.
▶ 0:52:10She also said that the proposed borrowing thresholds could drop result in a significant drop in revenue likely resulting in possible closure of the institution. They don't have an endowment. They don't have reserves to backfill that funding gap. Uh also disappointingly, Republicans have twisted the bipartisan priority of expanding PEL grants to short-term programs by dramatically restricting the number of students who are eligible to receive these grants.
▶ 0:52:38The bill weakens or eliminates many of the vital protections that keep borrowers safe from the predatory practices of so many for-profit institutions, something we've been working on in this committee for years, undone by this bill. The bill does not offer meaningful solutions for borrowers to effectively manage debt, contribute to the economy, and preserve their health and well-being. And also, Mr.
▶ 0:53:00Chairman, I've been a member of this committee for more than a dozen years, and maybe because I was on my own when I went to college and law school, and I did that with a combination of grants and loans and work study and food stamps. I have to say, I'm extremely disappointed that this is the bill my Republican colleagues are promoting, giving their own experiences with higher education. Every single Republican on this committee graduated from college, and more than half of them have gone on to earn advanced degrees.
▶ 0:53:28for five of them, uh, at least one or more of those degrees is from Harvard. And yet those same individuals who benefited so much from accessing higher education are supporting a bill that will prevent others from doing so. I mean, good for them that they could get a college education or go on to uh, masters or law school, but with this bill, they will be taking that opp that opportunity away from others. Families that are not wealthy can still have the same hopes and dreams. their children can have tremendous potential.
▶ 0:53:59This bill is a dream killer. The committee should be expanding opportunities, not taking them away. Just a few days ago, I met with a group of about 40 community college students and high school students who are thinking about going to college. Well, they met with me to tell me how much the TRIO program means to them. They're lowincome first generation students, students with disabilities, but being in college or planning to go to college brought them joy. It brought them confidence and it brought them hope.
▶ 0:54:28Now, I don't know what's going to happen to TRIO if the Department of Education is dismantled. But I do know that none of those students would have been there without that federal support. I also want to note that this markup is happening while President Trump and congressional Republicans are trying to eliminate the Department of Education. Yet, the Secretary of Education is mentioned no less than 79 times in this bill.
▶ 0:54:51It will be exceedingly challenging for the department to administer the numerous requirements of this bill if the department doesn't exist. Who's going to support the chaos that students and borrowers will experience because of this bill when more than half the department staff has already been terminated? Has the majority even considered these issues? Again, this is an unprecedented attack on access to affordable higher education.
▶ 0:55:16I urge this committee to reject this bill and instead show support for a system that will open the doors of opportunity to students from any background or income to pursue higher education if that's the path they chose. When President Johnson signed the Higher Education Act, that's what he talked about, opening the doors of opportunity. Please join me in opposing this harmful legislation. and I yield back the balance of my time. I thank the gentle lady. Are there any others who wish to be recognized?
▶ 0:55:49There being no further discussion on the amendment and nature seeking I'm just waiting for her to get ready. I now recognize the gentle lady from Connecticut, Miss Hayes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:56:19I move to strike the last word. The legislation put forward by my Republican colleagues is shameful. Rather than helping student student borrowers out of debt, this legislation would force students into the private loan market, making college less affordable and leading to fewer students pursuing college. At what gain? For tax breaks for the ultra ultra wealthy in this nation?
▶ 0:56:44Education is supposed to be the great equalizer, but this legislation would only perpetuate inequality in our country. This bill would also cap the total amount of federal student aid a student can receive. 50% of students in the US higher education system would not be able to receive the necessary financial aid needed to complete a college degree, pushing student loan borrowers into unaffordable repayment plans.
▶ 0:57:10Additionally, this bill increases attendance requirements for PEL grants, limiting the availability of aid to lowincome students and resulting into 20% decrease in PEL grant awards. 50% of all college students in the fifth congressional district of Connecticut received more than 100, excuse me, received more than 10 million in PEL grants. Pell grants are a lifeline for so many of my districts and students across the country.
▶ 0:57:37This bill also eliminates parent plus and graduate plus loans, which would lead to fewer low-income students having the support they need to attend college. This is particularly concerning for black students as black families tend to borrow plus loans at larger rates since they have historically fewer financial resources.
▶ 0:57:58Eliminating graduate plus loans will also limit access to careers requiring graduate education like teaching, exacerbating the teaching shortage we are experiencing right now. Lastly, this bill would eliminate existing regulations that protect students and taxpayers from predatory institutes and lowquality programs, the very waste, fraud, and abuse that Republicans claim to oppose.
▶ 0:58:24Ultimately, it would make it so that college is only truly affordable for the very wealthy. Anyone with the dream of attending college who just needs a little help getting there would not be afforded the help and would be forced to turn to predatory lenders who are looking to make a profit off of their desire for higher education. Students would be left with fewer choices and fewer opportunities. All so that Republicans can pass on these savings to billionaires.
▶ 0:58:52I urge my colleagues to reject this irresponsible legislation and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady. Are there any other members who wish to be recognized? Recognize the gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Mesner. Yes, I stand in opposing college cost. Excuse me. You stand opposed. Oppos.
▶ 0:59:19I oppose the The amendment process hasn't started yet. No, this okay. Are there any members who wish to be on ANS?
▶ 0:59:52There being no further discussion on the amendment and the nature of a substitute, the committee will move to consideration of amendments. Are there any members who would like to offer recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina. Thank you, Mr. Adams. For an amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 1:00:14Uh AMD The the clerk will designate the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Adams of North Carolina identifier Adams_amd_24. recognize Mr.
▶ 1:00:44Burgess for U. Mr. Chairman, I reserve point of Point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, let's call this what it is. The risk sharing model proposed in this bill is not just bad policy. It's a direct threat to H.B.CU and to students who depend on them.
▶ 1:01:11So my amendment my amendment would would simply require that before this policy can take effect, Secretary of Education must certify that it will not disproportionately harm HBCU. That's not a radical idea. That's common sense. So let's stop pretending this is just a budget exercise because it's not. What we're debating today is not budgeting.
▶ 1:01:37it policym and the policy being proposed here would do real harm to real institutions to real students across this country. This so-called risksharing proposal would punish colleges and universities if their students struggle to repay their loans and it would do so in a way that hits the hardest where help is needed the most. Let's talk facts here for a moment.
▶ 1:02:02Under this bill, 77% of H.B.CU, CUS, historically black colleges and universities would would be forced to pay penalties to the federal government. A and what would that what would that look like? Well, at North Carolina ENT, the largest H.B.CU in the nation, they would be forced to pay back $3.9 million every year. At Florida&M University, they would lose 2.6 million every year. At Tennessee State, 3.4 4 million a year.
▶ 1:02:32In total across the 1890 land grant HBCU, the average projected cost would be $1.7 million annually. That's $1.7 million pulled out of classrooms, student support services, scholarships every single year. And what's worse, the institutions being targeted aren't the ones failing their students. They're the ones serving their students.
▶ 1:02:59They're the ones who who welcome students who are first in their families to go to college. Students who don't have tutors growing up, students who don't have college counselors, students who started behind but are determined to finish ahead. These students don't default because they're lazy. They don't default because their colleges failed them. They default because they're carrying the weight of generations of of inequity. And this bill, it would punish the very schools that are doing the work of lifting them up. Risk sharing won't lower college costs.
▶ 1:03:30It it won't magically create new jobs for graduates. It's not going to fix anything. But what it will do is force colleges to think twice about who they admit. Will they admit the student who who scraped their way through high school with two jobs and a dream? Will they only admit the students who who already had every advantage, every resource, every safety net?
▶ 1:03:50Make no mistake, this bill will tell colleges, "Take only the students who are least likely to struggle, leave the rest behind." And let me say this plainly, HBCU have never believed in leaving students behind. They've always opened their doors. They've always said, "Come as you are, and we'll help you become who you are meant to be." And now they will be penalized for that very mission.
▶ 1:04:15This bill would strip millions from the very schools that have built the black middle class, from the schools that have produced our teachers, our engineers, our doctors, our public servants. It would do lasting damage not just to institutions, but to the students, the families, and the communities they serve. Mr. Chairman, this isn't just numbers on a spreadsheet.
▶ 1:04:35If we're serious about closing gaps in higher education, about strengthening our workforce, about building an economy that works for everyone, then we should be investing in H.B.CU, not slapping them with new penalties for doing exactly what we ask them to do, educate the students who need it the most. This risksharing proposal is shortsighted, it's discriminatory, and it's damn dead wrong.
▶ 1:05:03And so if my colleagues truly believe in strengthening H.B.CU, if they truly stand by the commitments made by this administration, then they should have no problem supporting this amendment. I urge my colleagues to support my amendment. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Does the gentleman from Utah insist on the point of order? Uh, a second here. I withdraw. I was draw point of order.
▶ 1:05:33Thank you. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? Recognize the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Owen. Um I u as a son of a 40 year old a 40 uh decade 40 years of professor Florida&M I stand against this amendment.
▶ 1:05:57Um, for over 150 years, HPUS HB HBCU have played a vital role in specific institutions established to ensure that individuals background doesn't prevent them from accessing higher education. Indeed, I support President Trump's recent executive order pushing forward new initiatives to continue this mission. This amendment implies that our reforms are disproportionately harm H.B.CU. There's nothing further from the truth on this one.
▶ 1:06:23Our policies are student focused for all students and our accountability metrics apply equally to all schools regardless of sector or modality. Moreover, our reforms to un undergraduate loan limits will benefit 95% of students enrolled in H.B.CU by allowing students to access better loan terms and repayment options other than and instead of forcing parents to borrow under the predatory plus program.
▶ 1:06:50Nothing in this bill targets certain institutions more than others. I stand opposed to this amendment and urge the support of this bill. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize the gentle lady from Oregon. Thank you. I I I wish to speak briefly in support of the amendment. You're recognized.
▶ 1:07:20Thank you. I'm concerned about this risk sharing model which is a recycled provision from the college cost reduction act where institutions of higher education are expected to compensate the government for unpaid student loans. Uh this this is a model that seems incredibly misguided and harmful not only for institutions but also for disadvantaged students.
▶ 1:07:42sort of creates this perverse incentive for schools to shut down programs that prepare students for sort of in demand but underpaid careers like teaching or social work or public service fields. Additionally, the proposal would create an incentive for schools to enroll wealthier students who are more likely to repay their loans at higher rates and minimize the risk to the institution and would disproportionately affect institutions that serve higher numbers of low-income and underresourced students who are less likely to be able to repay their student loans in full.
▶ 1:08:12But that's not because they didn't learn. It's because they have insurmountable barriers and a lack of generational wealth. And as my colleague from North Carolina mentioned, that includes many H.B.CU and community colleges. Instead, this committee should be focusing on how to address root causes of college unaffordability and bolster the financial aid programs that already exist. So, I encourage my colleagues to support this amendment and I yield back the balance of my time. I thank the gentle lady.
▶ 1:08:41Are there any other members who seek recognition on this amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from North Carolina. All in favor say I. All oppose say no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr.
▶ 1:09:11Chairman, can we get a recorded A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee Mr. Chairman, have an amendment. Recognized gently gentle lady from North Carolina, Miss Adams. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:09:38Um, my amendment is uh AMD 11. The clerk uh will designate the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Adams of North Carolina, identifier Adams_amd_11. Thank you. My amendment, Mr. Chair, would would prohibit I recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Kylie. Mr.
▶ 1:10:04Chairman, I reserve a point of A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleoman from North Carolina for five minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh my my amendment would prohibit this bill from taking effect until the Department of Education certifies that it will not increase out-ofpocket costs for low-income students.
▶ 1:10:27So, so let's be honest about what's necessary, why that's necessary, because the bill before us, as written, would absolutely raise costs for millions of students who can at least afford it. So, let's talk facts again. Right now, low-income students make up 60% of all Pell Grant recipients. They rely on PEL grants not as a luxury, but as a life, a lifeline. But, but what does this bill do?
▶ 1:10:54It redefineses the full-time attendance from 24 credits a year to 30. A technical change on paper. A devastating blow in practice. If you're a working student taking two or more or three classes a semester because you're raising a family, paying rent, caregiving for a parent, you would see your PEL grant slashed by 20% on average. And that's if you're lucky.
▶ 1:11:24But because for an estimated 1.5 million students, they would lose PEL eligibility altogether simply because they they can't meet this new arbitrary standard. They would lose their grants. They would lose their enrollment. And they would lose their future.
▶ 1:11:44Not because they failed the class, not not because they dropped out, but because they were working 40 hours a week to survive because they had no other choice. And and the communities hit hardest. Black students where twothirds attend part-time at some Latino students where nearly 60% balance school and work. first generation students, rural students, community college students.
▶ 1:12:14So, let's be clear about what this really means. This bill punishes students for being poor. It punishes students for for needing to work. It punishes students for living in the real world. A and it punishes the very institutions that have opened their doors widest to them.
▶ 1:12:35Community colleges, H.B.CU, CUS, minority serving institutions, regional public universities, the schools that don't have billiondoll endowments, the schools that that serve students who who don't have college savings accounts or or or or trust funds, the schools that believe in second chances. If fewer students qualify for PEL, what happens?
▶ 1:13:01Enrollment drops, revenue drops, programs get cut, campuses close. That's a that's a death spiral for students and for the very institutions that that keep opportunity alive in this country. And it's and and let's not pretend that it stops at PEL. This bill also guts parent plus and grad plus plus loans. It slaps on arbitrary borrowing caps.
▶ 1:13:26It punishes students into the predatory private loan market where the rates are higher, the terms are worse, and the protections are non-existent. Who gets punished hardest in that market? Black families who borrow parent plus loans at twice the rate of white families. Latino families who already face steep barriers accessing affordable credit. This bill turns financial aid from a bridge into a barricade.
▶ 1:13:53And let's be clear, if you raise costs for students without raising their incomes, then you're punishing them out of higher education entirely. And so you you you you are saying if you can't sprint full-time through 30 credits a year, you don't belong here. Well, that's not a plan. That's exclusion.
▶ 1:14:13And I refuse to sit quietly while a bill moves forward that would gut pel cut off loan access, slam the doors of higher education shut, all while pretending it's about budget discipline. Let me say this clearly. Education is supposed to be the great equalizer, not the luxury only the wealthy can afford. Hope is not a plan. Good intentions are not protection. And trust without verification is how families get hurt.
▶ 1:14:40So if the majority truly believes their bill will not raise costs for low-income students, they should have no problem certifying it. They should have no problem saying, "We will not move forward until we know we are not making college more expensive because the stakes are too high." This amendment is about fairness. It's about transparency, about protecting millions of students who are trying, fighting to build better lives. Mr.
▶ 1:15:04Chairman, if we let this bill move forward without safeguards, if we allow cost to raise to rise unchecked, if we allow opportunity to slip away, then we are complacent. And I urge my colleagues to support this amendment. And uh because education should open doors, not close them. I urge my colleagues to support this amendment. And I yield back. Thank you. I thank the gentle lady. Uh does the gentleman from California insist on a point of order? Mr.
▶ 1:15:33Speaker, I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Uh does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize the gentle lady from Georgia, Miss Mcbath. I recognize the ranking member, Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this amendment just points out the reality that the bill will in fact increase costs for students.
▶ 1:16:03And there's several aspects of the bill that will accomplish that feat. One is if the there's a incentive for colleges that find themselves under the median uh cost, there's an incentive for them to raise up up to the um towards the median. There's no um help at all for students that want to go part-time and work their way through through college. They lose all the help that they've been getting.
▶ 1:16:32And there's a um if if if you were working half-time to full-time, you got a little less help to um to get your college education. All of that attack on funding and helping students is designed to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. And that's why this uh amendment is so appropriate. It exposes the bill for what it does. And I would hope we'd adopt the amendment. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 1:17:02I recognize the gentleman from Indiana, Miss Messer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I stand opposed to this amendment. Lowering college costs, especially for low-income individuals, is precisely the goal of this bill. Our current system provides no incentives for institutions to care about what they charge or the success of their graduates. Instit institutions promise that their high prices are worth the investment, but they have no need to follow through.
▶ 1:17:28Real college costs have tripled since baby baby baby boomers went to school and real college graduate earnings have frozen since the turn of the century. This all culminates in students holding over 1.6 trillion dollars in federal student loan debt with taxpayers estimated to lose hundreds of billions of dollars on loans dispersed over the next decade.
▶ 1:17:48Indeed, an an estimated one-third of student loans and PEL grants are provided to students who in graduate programs that have a negative return on investment, and approximately 40% of students do not graduate at all. The reforms in this bill bring responsibility and accountability to our colleges and universities. Institutions should be held financially respons financially responsible if their expensive programs fail to equip graduates with skills needed for strong employment opportunities.
▶ 1:18:17The car and stick approach taken in this bill will hold colleges financially responsible for the loans they give out and reward those institutions who go above and beyond to provide highquality, affordable, and accessible education opportunities to low-income students. We want to address the issue of college cost and a lack of account accountability across the board to provide better outcomes and lower debt for all students, especially low-income students. I stand opposed of this amendment and urge your support for the bill.
▶ 1:18:46And with that, I yield back my time. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from North Carolina. All in favor say I. All oppose? No. No.
▶ 1:19:13In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Chair, I call for recorded vote, please. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of the substitute to the committee print? Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment. Yes. The gentle lady from North Carolina is recognized for purpose of amendment.
▶ 1:19:43Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have an amendment at the desk 28. First, I recognize the gentleman from Utah. Excuse me. Excuse me. Moving too quick. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Adams of North Carolina. identifier Adams_amd_28.
▶ 1:20:12I now recognize uh the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Owen. Mr. Chairman, I reserve point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina for 5 minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The amendment I'm offering today is is simple but critical. It would strike the the reckless provision in this bill that caps student aid at the median cost of attendance.
▶ 1:20:38On paper, that might sound like a technical tweak, but make no mistake, the real world consequences would be devastating. Right now, this bill says that if a student's school costs even $1 more than the so-called national median, they would lose out on the federal aid they rely on to attend college. Not because of their hard work, not because of their merit, but because of an arbitrary number on a spreadsheet. And who does that hurt?
▶ 1:21:09Low-income students, first generation students, working parents, students of color, students who have already fought uphill battles just to get in college, now being told that their dreams cost too much. So, let's be clear, students don't pick their college based on a median cost report. They pick a school based on their career goals, on their programs, their community, and their future.
▶ 1:21:35Some programs like like nursing and engineering, education, social work cost more to run because they require labs and clinicals and specialized training. Students shouldn't be punished for choosing fields our country desperately needs. And yet, under this bill, they would be.
▶ 1:21:56Instead of reducing college costs, this policy simply pushes costs onto students backs, forcing them to take on more private loan debt, work extra jobs just to stay enrolled, or worse, drop out altogether. This isn't affordability reform. It's opportunity denial. And let's be even more honest.
▶ 1:22:21This bill targets the very students and families already carrying the heaviest burdens. Black and Latino students who are more likely to attend schools above the median cost. Students at H.B.CU and MSIs where tuition reflects decades of underfunding, not waste. Community college students and and regional public university students, workingclass students, rural students, the backbone of America. And it gets even worse.
▶ 1:22:50This bill doesn't just cap aid. It also slashes loan op key loan options. It attacks grad plus loans. The only way many students of of color access graduate and professional degrees. It attacks parent plus loans. The only way many parents help send their children uh to college. Today, over $3.5 million parents hold more than 107 billion dollar in Parent Plus debt.
▶ 1:23:19And let's not pretend that burden is evenly shared. Black parents are more likely to take out parent plus loans. They're more likely to borrow more. They're more likely to face devastating consequences, garnishment, tax refund seizures, even losing their social security benefits in retirement. All because they dared to believe that that education could could unlock a better life for their children.
▶ 1:23:48This bill does nothing nothing to fix those injustices. Instead, it piles new barriers onto the backs of the very people that we should be helping. And let's not forget, almost 80% of parent plus borrowers who attend H.B.CU will be affected by these changes.
▶ 1:24:08H.B.CU like my own North Carolina ENT State University that that are engines of opportunity for students of color, first generation students like I was, and lowincome families. So, so let me ask what message are we sending? That students should should dream smaller that that parents should sacrifice everything and still be punished. That opportunity in America is reserved only for those who can pay upfront.
▶ 1:24:37That's not the country that I believe in. Mr. Chair, I've spent my career fighting to to open doors for students, not slam them shut. And if we care about building a stronger economy, a a a strong workforce and stronger democracy, then we must invest in students, not abandon them. This provision, capping aid at the median cost, it's not a solution. It's a slap in the face to every student who has the grit, the determination, but not the bank account. Our students deserve better.
▶ 1:25:07Our families deserve better. The future of this country deserves better. I urge my colleagues to support this amendment and to stand with students, not against them. I yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Chair, I thank the gentle lady. I Does the gentleman from Utah insist on his point of order? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order. Point of order. Orders withdrawn.
▶ 1:25:32I now recognize myself for five minutes and um to speak on this amendment. As might be expected, I oppose this amendment. My colleagues continue to fear-monger that we are cutting access to aid to half of all students. This is simply not true.
▶ 1:25:55A nonpartisan Urban Institute found that 93% of undergraduate students would be unaffected by capping federal student aid at the median cost of college. This provision ensures access to higher education while not rewarding colleges with more aid dollars for raising their prices.
▶ 1:26:18I also want to note that if we want to discuss policies that reduce would reduce access to aid, this amendment offered by my Democrat colleague will harm our nation's farmers and small business owners who unfairly lost access to financial aid under the new need analysis formula. With that, I'd like to submit for the record the Urban Institute report showing factually the benefits of our aid changes.
▶ 1:26:48Without objection, the report will be submitted. I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment and support the underlying bill and I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize a gentle lady from Georgia, Mcbath. You keep raising your hand, Miss McBTH. I hope you're encouraged.
▶ 1:27:18I notice your hand. I recognize the gentleman and the ranking member U from Virginia, Mr. Scott. Thank you, M. Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this amendment. I don't know where this uh calculation came from. This uh arithmetic calculation is so subject to manipulation that I'm not sure h how it came about.
▶ 1:27:44Um first of all, half the students will go to colleges in the top half when this uh cost because you median means half above half below. So you're talking about punishing half the students. Um there's if you're below the median cost, you have every incentive to increase just below the median cost uh so that you could make more money.
▶ 1:28:11So there's as much incentive to increase cost as to reduce costs. There's no in there's no adjustment for cost of living. You got the same national median uh calculation. And so people going to going to college in a high uh cost area and a lowcost area will have the same um will have the same the same calculation. There's no adjustment.
▶ 1:28:38And if it's um if you're not at some some do not have the luxury of being um recruited by any number of different colleges. Some can only get into one or two colleges. And if it happens to be in the top half, then you're messed up.
▶ 1:28:56Um, this also has the un I guess I hope effect for those schools in the upper half uh to discourage lower income students from even attending. And so the percentage of low-income students will have an opportunity to go to half the colleges in the country will be diminished. uh this uh mimic this uh provision would not have been well thought out and should be eliminated as this amendment will do.
▶ 1:29:25I would support the therefore we should support the amendment. Yield back. I thank the gentleman. I would just state again for the record about the 93% the median yes 5050 but not all students borrow the full amount that they're enabled to borrow. That's why those stats are factual and the impact is insignificant compared to what you're attempting to put forward. And that's our disagreement.
▶ 1:29:55I now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Fine. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and it's an honor to to to speak after you. Um I not that good at many things but math was one of the things I I had some skills at and so I wanted to perhaps give an explanation for why that 93% and that median statistic could be the same. And the reason is is that median represents the middle number. It's not the average number. It's not the mean.
▶ 1:30:21And so what happens in these programs as we've seen with predatory institutions is the predatory institutions tend to price at a very high level which would set the median number at a level which the vast majority of students could be underneath it. The second thing that I heard that didn't make a lot of sense to me is it it there was a an argument made that this would affect programs that were more expensive than others. It is correct that not all fields of study cost the same in order to undergo.
▶ 1:30:47But the fact of the matter is as I read this, it said it's the median depending on the field of study. So if nursing is more expensive than teaching, it's the median price for that field of study, it is not the median in general. If it were, which it is not, that would actually create a problem. Look, the fact of the matter is this is a good idea because by setting the rate at the median level, we create an incentive for institutions to lower their cost over time.
▶ 1:31:15The reason that higher education pricing has gone up almost faster than anything else in our economy over the last 30 years is because what happens is the institutions increase to fill in all available money. There's more loans available. Guess what? Prices go up and there's no governance. There's no guard rail. There's nothing in place that gives anyone any incentive to cut anything ever.
▶ 1:31:37By doing this, by setting at the median, we have we create the financial incentive and the numerical incentive for people to cut their prices over time. I think all of us on this side of the room want the maximum number of people to go to college and get the maximum number of degrees that are going to help them advance their situation in life. I know I do. Certainly worked out well for me, although I'm not someone who actually ever got a nickel in student loans.
▶ 1:32:02But what we want people to do is do that at the lowest possible price because that's best for the taxpayer and more importantly that's best for the students. This amendment would make it harder for that to happen. And that's why I agree with the chairman and and I'll be voting no on this amendment. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize the gentle lady from Connecticut, Miss Hayes. Hi.
▶ 1:32:32I mean, hi. Hi. I would just like to add that for most poor families and lowincome families, they do access every dime in student loans that they're offered because it is their only opportunity to pursue a education. I agree that we need to bring down the cost of college and higher education.
▶ 1:32:56And when we have a president and an administration that is issuing executive orders to tell colleges everything that they can and cannot do, there is no mention of the cost of higher education. It is always the students and the lowest income students who are targeted. I will not be supporting. I I do not support this bill for so many reasons, but the target is always at our most vulnerable students.
▶ 1:33:21And we can talk our way around and put up funny math charts, but we all know if you read this bill, the students and the families that will be most impacted and the communities that will suffer. And that's just math. This bill does nothing to help the students that we're talking about, the students that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle say that they support and they want to help pursue a higher education.
▶ 1:33:47I know that there are many families who wish they could send their child to college without ever having to access a federal student loan. There are so many people who there is no other choice. So I commend my colleagues who have never had to rely on federal student aid, who have never had to worry about paying back these loans, who have never had to consider themselves the only pathway to lead their family out of poverty. But that is not the story for everybody.
▶ 1:34:16and on this committee we actually have the ability to do something about it. I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from North Carolina. All in favor say I. All oppose? No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. request a recorded vote. Mr.
▶ 1:34:46Chairman, a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of the substitute to the print? For what purpose does the gentle lady from Georgia seek to be recognized? Mr. Chair, I have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 1:35:08The clerk will report the Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Mcbath of Georgia identifier Mcbath_amd_02. I recognize a gentleman from Utah. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize a gentle lady from Georgia uh for five minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:35:39Um, our amendment, my amendment will preserve the closed school discharge rule, also known as the defrauded student loan discharge rule. This rule is just very, very simple. It ensures that students whose schools abruptly closed are not forced to pay back loans that probably never should have been permitted in the very first place.
▶ 1:36:05It also disourages predatory practices by moving the responsibility of school closures from families and students to the school When a school shuts down in the middle of the school year and closes its doors without awarding a degree or transferable credits, students and families are left in thousands of dollars of debt with
▶ 1:36:35no degree to show it. Despite no fault of their own and sometimes being taken advantage of, they are now objectively worse off than they were before they tried to better themselves through education. And I think most people in this room would agree that that simply wrong.
▶ 1:37:00I want to reiterate again that these proposals by House Republicans simply do not make sense. If my Republican colleagues are so concerned about the public dollars being used for higher education, why are they making it easier for schools to take advantage of veterans and their benefits?
▶ 1:37:28Why do you consistently fight against and try to remove consumer protections for students and funnel taxpayer dollars to people and organizations who profit while they lie to the American people about the product they sell?
▶ 1:37:47My Republican colleagues act as if millions of Americans purpose purpose purposefully went into trillions of student loan debt on a whim. They claimed that the American people are fiscally irresponsible. That this is simply your fault and your problem. The reality for most Americans is that the only way to afford school is to take out a student loan.
▶ 1:38:18Just as my colleague has mentioned, for decades, Congress and our government have been actively telling people every day that one of the best ways to get ahead is to get an education or credential of some kind. And the majority is now punishing them for trying to partake in the very thing that we want them to be doing, obtaining the skills necessary to move their families and our country forward.
▶ 1:38:48The student debt crisis is a direct result of mismanagement of the entire education system as a whole. Mismanagement that we are only doubling down on here today. It's already far too expensive and far too difficult for people in this country to get the basic skills to provide a decent life for themselves. Getting rid of this program will only make that problem worse.
▶ 1:39:15I encourage everyone here today to vote in favor of our amendment to preserve the closed school discharge program and to protect families from predatory lending and I yield. I thank the gentle lady. Does gentleman from Utah insist on the point of order? I I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?
▶ 1:39:44For what purpose does the gentleman from Missouri seek recognition to speak against the amendment? Mr. Chairman, the gentleman is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I oppose this amendment offered by my colleague. Republicans agree that students who attend colleges that close should be treated fairly and have options to continue their education. When students close for circumstances outside of students control, students should not be penalized.
▶ 1:40:11However, the current closed school discharge regulations go above and beyond providing fair avenues for students and come at great budgetary cost for the taxpayer. The first Trump administration made common sense changes to co close school loan discharge, including expanding the time period for the affected students.
▶ 1:40:33Unfortunately, the Biden Harris administration dramatically expanded this regulation in an attempt to unlawfully transfer student loan debt onto taxpayers. This included provisions like automatically pushing student debts into onto the taxpayer whether or not the student was truly affected by this the school closure. Therefore, in the interest of fairness to taxpayers and to students, I oppose this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 1:41:03Is there further debate on amendment? If not, the I recognize gentleman from Virginia, ranking member Scott. Mr. Chairman, um, speak in opposition to the bill to the amendment. You're recognized. Excuse me. In favor of the amendment, you're recognized as well.
▶ 1:41:27Um many students uh many schools that defraud their students or abruptly close also overcharge their students. We're getting rid of the 9010 rule which will invite many def fraudulent schools back into the process. Uh right now if you're defrauded or school just abruptly closes on you, you don't have to pay back your loan. Under this bill, many of them will have to pay back those loans.
▶ 1:41:53uh the responsible party when you defrauded somebody really ought to be the school itself and that's where the responsibility would lie. Uh I don't think anybody thinks that somebody's defrauded by the school ought to have to pay back a massive loan uh ruining their lives possibly putting them into financial distress from which they cannot declare bankruptcy because of other provisions in in in the law.
▶ 1:42:20Uh this is a um this provision is very important uh to discourage schools from cheating people um and any effort to um enable them to defraud students I think is is poorly placed. That's why the amendment to get rid of the um this provision is a good amend the this provision under the bill is a good provision.
▶ 1:42:43People who are defrauded or go to schools and find out halfway through their course school just up and closes shouldn't have to pay off their loans. Gentleman yields. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleoman from Georgia. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No.
▶ 1:43:13In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Chair would like a recorded vote. A roll call a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a substitute to the committee print? For what purpose does the gentle woman from Georgia seek to be Thank you, Mr. Chair. Have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 1:43:41The clerk will report the Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Mcbath of Georgia. Identifier Mcbath AMD_26. I recognize the member from Utah to reserve a point of order. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady from Georgia for five minutes in support of her amendment.
▶ 1:44:11Thank you. This amendment would stop House Republicans from exempting time worked as a medical and dental residency in rural areas from public service loan forgiveness. Let's be clear, medical and dental residencies are simply jobs, and they are often ones where medical professionals are working the longest hours of their career for the lowest pay.
▶ 1:44:39During their first year, physicians can sometimes be paid less than the average cost of a year of medical school. Now, instead of doing something to help get more doctors and dentists practicing in the field, House Republicans are pushing a policy that will make it far more difficult for students to become dentists and physicians.
▶ 1:45:05Once again, they are going to make a bad problem even worse. In my home state of Georgia, most of our 159 counties are considered health professional shortage areas and most do not have an emergency medical physician.
▶ 1:45:26Over 60 counties in Georgia do not have pediatrician and twothirds do not have an obst obstitrician close to a hospital or a birth center for people in Webster, Eckles or Montgomery counties or the other six counties in my state that have no physicians at all.
▶ 1:45:54Proposals like this make it likely for them to never even have a physician. There is no legitimate reason for a child growing up in the greatest and richest country on earth to not have access to a pediatrician, for a pregnant mother to have to travel for hours to meet with her OBGYn for a routine checkup or to the hospital simply just to
▶ 1:46:24give birth. It should disturb every mother of this body and every woman who hopes to be a mother and it should move you to action. I encourage everyone here to support this amendment. Let's give more doctors and dentists in rural areas. Let's give them a chance. Let's have more of them, not less.
▶ 1:46:52I urge my colleagues to vote yes on this amendment and I yield back. The gentle lady yields. Does the gentleman from Utah insist on the point of order? I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the For what purpose does the gentleman from Florida seek recognition? To speak in opposition. The gentleman's recognized. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I stand opposed to this amendment.
▶ 1:47:21I think the reasoning is sometimes there's a difference between how things are described and and the reality of it. I don't think there's anyone in this room that doesn't want someone who lives in a rural area to be able to get the health care and be able to access a doctor. I know it's something that I worked on when I chaired healthcare in Florida. But but when you get a residency, it's fine if you don't have to pay your medical bills or your your loan repayment while you're doing it. The question is what happens after that?
▶ 1:47:48And and so this bill includes the bipartisan resident education deferred interest act. It says that you'll be able to defer your student loan payments until after your residency is over. You don't have to pay any interest on it for four years. But the question is what happens after you're done with that? Look, you don't make any money when you're a resident, but you can make a lot afterwards.
▶ 1:48:09And so we have to balance between promoting key workers in the medical field, but also not give windfalls to folks who become doctors making a lot of money, the millionaires we like to hear so much about, who can afford to pay off their loans much later in their career. This bill also has the benefit, it will put downward pressure, as I talked about before, on prices at medical schools to give medical schools an incentive to lower their tuition costs, making it more accessible to everyone to go to medical school.
▶ 1:48:40We have to address the issue of cost. We have to address the issue of accountability and we want to provide debt for less students, including those in the medical profession. Again, we should defer it during residency. thereafter. I think it's an appropriate time for folks to pay their stuff back and that's why I stand opposed to the amendment and I urge support for the bill. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?
▶ 1:49:08For what purpose does gentleman seek to be recognized? Like to speak in support of the amendment. Are you talking For what purpose does the gentle lady from Connecticut seek to be recognized? to speak in support of the amendment. Gentle lady is recognized for five minutes. I rise in support of this amendment uh because I mean for several reasons.
▶ 1:49:31It's a very good amendment, but I also want to speak to this idea that everyone who graduates from medical school ends up wealthy and wellconed. I can tell you the story of a dentist that I often talk to about uh children's pediatric dentistry and he tells me about how he's struggling still to pay back his student loans about how it is a conscious choice for him to work in a community health center because this is the community that he wants to serve.
▶ 1:50:00how he could make so much more money in private practice or at a large corporate hospital setting, but he wants to be in a community serving these underserved children. By not acknowledging that debt carries into uh the professional careers of our dentists, of our doctors, of our medical professionals, we are forcing them to make the choice to not serve our most vulnerable communities and only enter where they could make the most money.
▶ 1:50:30That is not what we should be setting out to do. Young people enter these professions because they want to go into public service. They have no guarantee of what their future earnings would be. So, we need to be making every option available to support them through their careers.
▶ 1:50:49Many of these loan forgiveness programs are income based and as incomes rise, they would change, but to cut them off at the knees at the outset is really limiting the places and the spaces where they will go and then practice.
▶ 1:51:04And by default, our poorest communities, the public health settings, the community health centers who cannot afford to pay these large salaries will be left out and the most talented and experienced professionals will flee. I support this amendment because it is a good amendment, a common sense amendment that helps bring the care that is necessary in so many of these communities back to the people who need it. I yield back. I thank you, gentle lady.
▶ 1:51:34For what purpose does a gentleman from New York, Mr. Manion, seek recognition? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I uh am requesting to speak in support of the amendment. You're recognized. Thank you. Uh in uh New York 22 in central New York and the Mohawk Valley, we have a primary care shortage um particularly in our rural areas.
▶ 1:51:53And what we're seeing is uh as the gentle lady prior to mentioned, we have a real gap in services particularly at our community health centers for individuals with disabilities and also our veterans. So the PSLF is an important way to incentivize uh rural internships and working with our most disadvantaged communities, additionally working with our veterans. So um this assures that these individuals have access to care.
▶ 1:52:21Restricting uh PSLF makes no sense and would harm recruitment and retention of doctors, people uh dentists and uh others that are supporting those professions. So I urge support and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the gentleman. I now recognize gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to speak in favor of the uh amendment.
▶ 1:52:46Uh if we want an incentive to get more medical students to go into anesthesiology or or plastic surgery, uh then oppose this amendment. But if you are like me and meet with your uh staff and doctors and providers at your federally qualified health centers and public health offices, please please support this amendment. And I yield back the bottom balance of my time. I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment?
▶ 1:53:16If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Georgia. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the eyes have it and the amendment is the excuse me, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chair, I ask for a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered.
▶ 1:53:44Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the print? For what purpose does a gentle lady from Connecticut seek to be The clerk. I have an amendment at the desk. Hayes AMD DAL 002. The clerk will designate the amendment.
▶ 1:54:09Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Hayes of Connecticut identifier I recognize the gentleman from Utah. Mr. Chairman, I reserve point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady for Connecticut for five minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you.
▶ 1:54:32According to a 2024 Government Accountability Office report, an estimated 3.8 million students experience food insecurity while on college campuses. No less concerning, 2.2 million students report very low food security, meaning they have multiple instances of eating less than they should or skipping meals because they cannot afford enough food.
▶ 1:54:57A student survey at the University of Connecticut found that across each of their campuses, 38% of students face food insecurity and about 30% of students reported skipping meals to save money. Every campus at the University of Connecticut hosts a Husky Harvest food pantry. The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program or SNAP can help to close food security gaps.
▶ 1:55:23SNAP's pro SNAP provides food benefits to low-income individuals and families to supplement their grocery budget so that they can afford the nutritious foods essential to their health and well-being. Unfortunately, too few students are informed of their eligibility for assistance programs.
▶ 1:55:40Of the 3.3 million students estimated to be potentially eligible for SNAP under standard student ex exemptions, an 67% or 2.2 2 million students did not receive benefits. My amendment simply states that nothing in this bill shall be constructed to permit any action that results in a reduction in SNAP participation or access to SNAP benefits for students.
▶ 1:56:08This common sense amendment will ensure that no provision in this legislation contributes to the hunger crisis that exists on our college campuses. The reconciliation bill before us today will limit access to a range of programs of study for low-income students, stare students into private loan markets, and make it easier for college students to fall into food insecurity. I urge members to support my amendment, and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady.
▶ 1:56:39Does the gentleman from Utah assistant? I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize myself for five minutes to speak in opposition to the amendment. ED and USDA already cooperate to connect college students with SNAP benefits.
▶ 1:57:02A new law in July 2024 gave ED authority to share FAFSA data with USDA and state SNAP agencies. But FAFSA is a mess because of the Biden administration's botched rollout for multiple years. The USDA has already encouraged state SNAP agencies to enhance outreach and enrollment efforts. No one is blocking participation. There is work here that states need to do.
▶ 1:57:31I encourage my colleagues to oppose this amendment and I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleoman from Connecticut. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No.
▶ 1:57:55In the opinion of the chair, the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed Mr. Chair, I request a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print? I have an amendment at the desk. The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 1:58:24Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Hayes of Connecticut. Identifier Hayes_amd_27. I recognize a gentleman from Utah. for a point of order. Like to reserve a point of order, please. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleoman from Connecticut for 5 minutes in support of the amendment. Thank you.
▶ 1:58:53Across the nation, educator pay continues to erode. 40% of school districts employing a half million teachers still offer a starting salary below $40,000. Nearly half of all educators took out student loans to pay for college and still owe on average $58,700.
▶ 1:59:14According to research done by NEA, one in seven teachers still owes $15,000 for a career that starts them at less than $40,000. I also would like to add that in many states you must have a master's degree to maintain teacher teacher certification. So that is not an option or a choice. It is a requirement for teachers to pursue advanced degrees.
▶ 1:59:40My amendment would ensure that teachers could still use their five years of classroom service in a high needs district to qualify for both the Stafford student loan forgiveness program and towards the 10 years of loan payments required for the public service loan forgiveness program.
▶ 1:59:57Currently, teachers may participate in the teacheronly federal SSL program that provides between 5,000 to 17,000 in loan forgiveness after 5 years in the Alternatively, teachers may choose to participate in the federal public service loan forgiveness program, which discharges any remaining debt after 10 years of public service in a qualifying school district.
▶ 2:00:23However, teachers may not simultaneously qualify for both both programs, which means they would have to first be in the classroom for 5 years in order to receive the Stafford student loan forgiveness repayment, then serve another 10 years before qualifying for loan discharge under public service loan These standards contrast with the mission of these loan forgiveness programs to incentivize more talented individuals
▶ 2:00:53to enter and stay in the classroom and pursue the teaching profession. This amendment is based on my bill, the Teacher Debt Relief Act, which I introduced in the 117 and 118th Congress to incentivize more talented individuals to become teachers. This amendment aims to help those enter and remain in the profession by making debt relief and loan discharge a more readily achievable reality.
▶ 2:01:23We are asking young people to take out loans that are double the amount of the starting salary of this of a profession that we need. As it stands, the Republican reconciliation bill will only contribute to the teacher shortage by making it more difficult to pay student loans, forcing many teachers not to leave their school or their district, but to leave the profession and their classrooms and students altogether.
▶ 2:01:51I ask my colleagues to expand on their efforts to address the student debt crisis and keep more teachers in the classroom and support my amendment. I yield back. The gentle lady yields. Does the gentleman from Utah insist on the point of order? I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? For what purpose does a gentle lady from Georgia seek recognition?
▶ 2:02:19I'd like to speak in support of the amendment. The gentle lady is recognized. Thank you very much. My my remarks are very very short. Um, I have a younger sister who works as a public school teacher in the Chicago public schools and she's been teaching now for about 18 years and she is just finishing paying off her student loan debt. Just finishing.
▶ 2:02:43So in a time when we should be making sure that we are preparing as many teachers as possible, we know that we have more teacher shortages. More uh teachers are leaving the profession, leaving the field.
▶ 2:02:57We should be looking for ways to incentivize them to to give of their time, their talent, and their services, and not doing anything to push them out of uh a career that we so sorely need to make sure that our children are getting a stellar and global education. And I yield back. General Lady yields. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?
▶ 2:03:27that case I seek recognition on on speaking in opposition to the amendment. I oppose this amendment uh for a number of reasons. Having great teachers in the classroom is critical for our students learn. That's non-negotiable. We also know that it can be difficult to recruit new teachers and encourage them to stay in the classroom.
▶ 2:03:54That's precisely the reason Congress over the years authorized different types of loan forgivenesses for these hardworking professionals. This amendment will remove prohibitions against double dipping from these various programs and would likely have concerning budgetary effects. Historically, Republicans and Democrats have agreed on prohibitions against double dipping.
▶ 2:04:17In fact, it was Democrats who included the prohibition against double dipping in the initial teacher loan forgiveness program when they added the public service loan forgiveness program years later. This amendment seeks to put a band-aid on the problem and try to forgive more loans on the back end. The current system has done nothing to address teacher shortages. It also gives institutions no reason to lower the cost of undergraduate or graduate degrees in teaching.
▶ 2:04:48The reforms in the bill will improve accountability around program outcomes and work to lower college costs across the board. This will help future teachers on the front end, not to be in crippling debt and help keep the budgetary costs low for taxpayers. I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment and I yield back. Does anyone else seek to recognition? I recognize gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 2:05:18Chairman. I I wish to speak in support of the amendment at a time when public education is under attack. We should be doing everything we can to incentivize people to become teachers. It is a noble profession. We should not be making it harder to enter the field. and I yield the balance of my time to Representative Hayes. Thank you, Representative Bonamichi.
▶ 2:05:40I just want to say that I was not here in Congress when these provisions were put into place, when these programs were passed, but I resent the implications that teachers are double dipping. Because you want to know where I was, I was in the classroom when this was passed. I was in the classroom and I chose to work in a title one school district where I had a lower starting salary than some of the surrounding towns. But I thought it was important that I go went back to the community where I grew up to teach.
▶ 2:06:11After 10 years in the classroom, after five years, you shouldn't have to reset to start all over again. this by by not allowing teachers to access teacher student debt forgiveness, it does nothing to lower the cost of higher education to enter these programs.
▶ 2:06:31So again, you don't get to keep sitting here saying we support teachers and we're going to do everything we can to support teachers and then every time we have the opportunity to do that, we can bring up a procedural reason why we shouldn't. When these things were passed, I was out there teaching.
▶ 2:06:50And I can tell you that public service loan forgiveness and Stafford loan forgiveness are the the incentives that teachers in the classroom rely upon when they're looking at the cost of that higher education racking up when they finish their undergraduate degree and have to go back and get a master's degree because it is required to maintain certification.
▶ 2:07:13when they are signing a promisary note taking on double the debt that is compared to the salary that they will receive in their first contract because they just want to teach. So we have the ability to do something about that. And I also remind everybody on this committee and everybody who is listening, we always talk about the burden on taxpayers. I remind you that teachers are taxpayers too. They live and work in their communities. They contribute to their communities.
▶ 2:07:44They are doing their part to in to uh improve society. And we have the ability right now to do a little thing to help them. It's not adding a new program. It's just allowing them to take advantage of the programs that are available and not have to drag it out over 15 years. Uh I yield back to Miss Bon to Representative Bonamichi. I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 2:08:14I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Connecticut. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed.
▶ 2:08:44Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of the substitute to the print? For what purpose does a gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi, seek to be recognized? I have an amendment at the desk. Bonamichi number one. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Bonamichi of Oregon. identifier Bonamichi_amdal_0000001.
▶ 2:09:14For what purpose does the gentleman from Utah seek to be recognized? Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady from Oregon for 5 minutes in support of her amendment. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have an amendment that is pro- family, pro-children, and pro- momom.
▶ 2:09:32It requires that the bill not take away or reduce any nutrition benefits for moms and hungry kids through the special supplemental nutrition program for women, infants, and children or wick. About 4.8 million college students are raising dependent children. That's about a quarter of all undergraduate students. And federal nutrition programs, including WICK, SNAP, school meals, and more.
▶ 2:09:59Those are investments in the health, learning, and development of children and young adults and communities across the country. These are some of the most successful tools we have for reducing child hunger and food insecurity. These nutrition programs have been associated with improved educational outcomes and reduced food insecurity, which is especially important for children from lowincome and food insecure families.
▶ 2:10:23WIC in particular supports mothers and young children through providing nutritious foods, breastfeeding support, counseling, and health care referrals. It's widely known that the WIC program contributes to healthier births, nutritious diets, improved infant feeding practices, better health care for children, and higher academic achievement. The benefits of WIC to the health and well-being of families is indisputable.
▶ 2:10:48So, it's imperative that college students can continue to have access to this program that is served as a lifeline for many mothers and their young children. And I just want to repeat, you know, some people think of a college student is an 18-year-old in a dorm with a meal plan. Again, there are about 4.8 million college students who are raising dependent children. So, I urge my colleagues to support this amendment, and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady. Does the gentleman from Utah insist on his point of order? I reserve my I mean I withdraw my point of order.
▶ 2:11:18The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the For what purpose does the gentleman seek to be recognized? I stand opposed to this amendment. Mr. Chair, gentleman's recognized for five minutes. Mr. Chair, no one is blocking individuals from participating in WIC. In fact, according to USDA's own data, wick participation in recent years has been in decline.
▶ 2:11:47The previous administration, however, continued to make a bloated budget request and inform Congress of needed supplemental funds, gaslighting actual program enrollment. WIC is a helpful supplemental nutrition program for many, including college students who might be parents. and no one is standing in the way of individuals who need assistance from receiving it. I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:12:17I yield back. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? Mr. Speaker, for what purpose is a gentle lady from North Carolina? I'd like to speak briefly um in support of the amendment. The gentle lady is recognized. Thank you. Um thank you uh Mr. Chairman. I I do want to speak in favor of this amendment. It it's really important. You know, I have I worked on a college campus for 40 years. Uh many of my students were parents.
▶ 2:12:47Uh and and when you think about even even without being parents, we have college students who are food insecure. Uh they want to make sure that the children uh that they're taking care of um eat. You can't be healthy if if you're hungry. Uh it is so important uh that we keep this intact. I I support this amendment because I support the children. Uh I support the the students who are are mothers and taking care of the children.
▶ 2:13:17And and so if we're really trying to make sure that we're providing u good educational benefits, we've got to make sure uh that um these young children are fed. And so WICK is a very important program. Um and uh we need to make sure that we support it. I support the amendment and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Oregon.
▶ 2:13:47All in favor say I. All oppose? No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print? Uh, yes, Mr. Chairman. I have another amendment at the desk. The clerk will report the amendment. Uh, number six, please.
▶ 2:14:18Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Bonamichi of Oregon, identifier Bonamichi_amd_06. I recognize a gentleman from Utah. I reserve point of order, please. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady from Oregon for five minutes in support of her amendment. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:14:42I I I want to first point out once again the sort of irony of the majority defining the responsibilities of the Department of Education in this bill when they don't seem to even want the department to exist. Uh this seems to be another attempt to dismantle and weaken the department's power. Uh and this should not go unchecked.
▶ 2:15:00House Republicans are trying to give themselves the sole power to determine student loan repayment plans, stripping authority from individuals in the department who are the subject matter experts with comprehensive data on borrowers financial situations. Issuing regulations is a fundamental responsibility of any cabinet leader, including the Secretary of Education.
▶ 2:15:20So, if my colleagues in the majority want to limit the power of our executive leaders, I suggest they start with President Trump and Elon Musk, who seem to be the architects of the most blatant executive overreach I've seen during my time in Congress. So, I'm introducing this amendment to strike subtitle G, which is that last part of the bill uh and the unnecessary and reductive limitations on secretarial authority that are contained in section G. And I yield back the balance of my time. I thank the gentle lady.
▶ 2:15:48Does the gentleman from Utah insist on his point of order? I withdraw my point of order. The point of order is withdrawn. Does anyone seek recognition on the amendment? I oppose it. Yes. I recognize a gentleman from Utah, Mr. Owen, to speak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I oppose the amendment offered by my colleagues. We in here in Congress represent the legislative branch of government. It is our responsibility to pass laws that reflect the will and interests of the people. This is particularly true when it comes to reforming uh reforming spending.
▶ 2:16:17Unfortunately, former President Biden decided time and time again that executive branch could hold the legislative pin. For uh former President Biden attempted to circumvent Congress's illegal uh student debt transfer scheme even after then Nas Pelosi, Speaker Nas Pelosi uh has said that the Congress alone held that that responsibility and authority. Even when the Supreme Court struck down this abuse of abuse of power, the B administration remained undeterred.
▶ 2:16:45The Biden Harris administration's misnamed save plan would have been the costest regulation in history and it was advanced by with the stroke of a pen. In fact, taken together, former President Biden's attempted attempted to cancel as much as 1 trillion in student loan debt. Spending this uh this this much taxpayer money should not come from the Oval Office. Our bill makes clear that Congress holds the power of the purse and executive branch should not legislate.
▶ 2:17:14Uh, I I must uphold this amendment and yield back. I thank the gentleman. Is there further debate on the amendment? For what purposes a gentle lady from North Carolina seek recognition? Mr. Chairman, I'd like to speak briefly. I'd like to um defer my time to represent Recognized. Thank you.
▶ 2:17:37I ju I just want to point out um it's it's a little baffling to hear the argument that uh we are the legislative branch with the power of the purse in light of the executive orders and the the work that has happened in these first 99 almost 100 days of the Trump administration. He has been legislating by executive order day after day after day. So I just I want to point out the irony of of that uh in in this uh conversation.
▶ 2:18:01I I truly uh want us to get rid of subtitle G because again we have separate branches of government but we also have the administrative procedures act through which agencies do write rules. Congress passes the statutes but agencies write the rules and agencies include the people with the expertise. Uh that's who should be doing these uh the the the rules of the agency. And I uh thank again Representative Adams and I yield back to Representative Adams. Thank you for yielding.
▶ 2:18:31Uh, Mr. Chairman, I do support this amendment. Encourage my colleagues to support it as well. I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Oregon. All in favor say I. All oppose. No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote.
▶ 2:19:01A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous amendment, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a substitute to committee print? For what purpose does a gentle lady from Oregon? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one more. Uh, this is Bonamichi amendment number 29. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Bonamichi of Oregon identifier Bonamichi_amd_29.
▶ 2:19:31For what purpose does the gentleman from Utah seek? I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize a gentle lady from Oregon for 5 minutes to support her amendment. Uh thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. This is a common sense amendment. We've had a lot of conversations this morning about whether this uh proposed legislation will hurt or help uh people seeking a higher education.
▶ 2:19:52Uh in after looking to the at the legislation, after hearing the arguments, I am convinced that this will not help people who want to go to college. Uh, and this amendment would simply prohibit any funding cuts from taking effect until the Department of Education's Inspector General can guarantee that lowincome borrowers, many of whom are already struggling to make ends meet with increasing costs, won't see an increase in their monthly loan payments. Uh, that seems common sense to me.
▶ 2:20:20Several provisions of this bill have the potential to make college less affordable for low-income students, and we've talked about those already. Under the incomedriven repayment assistance plan that my Republican colleagues have proposed, most lowincome borrowers will be paying off their loans for their entire life without relief, never qualifying for forgiveness. I have spoken with people who have been paying on their student loans for years and owe more than they borrowed. Uh that is unacceptable, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:20:50Further, there are no protections for borrowers who are not able to make their monthly payments and end up defaulting on their loans. This is not an accessible or sustainable repayment model. If the majority is truly committed to making college more affordable, they should support this common sense provision that will protect the most vulnerable borrowers and prevent loan default, saving money for taxpayers in the long run. So, I urge everyone to support this amendment and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady.
▶ 2:21:19Does the gentleman from Utah insist on the point of order? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I now recognize myself for five minutes in opposition to the amendment. I stand opposed an amendment. This amendment applies that lowincome borrows will be hurt by repayment form of this bill.
▶ 2:21:50I want to set the record straight when it comes to the history of repayment plans. Democrat presidents have been responsible for making false promises to borrowers by rewriting repayment plans in ways Congress never intended or authorized.
▶ 2:22:07With each new Democratic swipe of an executive pen, borrowers were led to believe with the new repayment plans that paying loans would be easy and there would be no concerns about overborrowing. These repayment plans are designed for borrowers to never repay at all.
▶ 2:22:27Extremely minimal monthly payments meant that borrowers, especially low-income borrowers, simply saw their balances grow every month with interest. Democrat presidents promised forgiveness at the end of the tunnel, but borrowers were left with the mental stress of watching their debt grow for 20 plus years.
▶ 2:22:52This is a cruel way to use borrows as political pawns and wield repayment plans as a backdoor attempt for taxpayers to subsidize student loans. Just look at the actions of the Biden Harris administration. Its initial plan for student loan forgiveness was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court. So Biden Harris immediately turned to institute the SAVE repayment plan by action.
▶ 2:23:22The improperly named SAVE plan was nothing more than the latest attempt to convert fiscal irresponsibility into votes. When you combine the save plan with actions like continually extending a repayment pause meant for COVID, it's clear that the Biden Harris administration's actions have left millions of students confused and stranded even as we speak.
▶ 2:23:47No wonder a shockingly low one-third of roughly 35 million borrowers are even in current repayment. Students are now expected to default at higher rates than those who took out loans during the peak of COVID. Under the repayment assistance plan, low-income borrowers would be required to make just a $10 payment per month.
▶ 2:24:15In doing so, they would have any unpaid interest waved and their monthly payment matched, meaning that borrowers always see their balance go down, providing borrowers assurance that they will in fact be able to pay off their loan.
▶ 2:24:32Our repayment reforms in this bill fix the broken repayment system Democrats created by ending ballooning balances, offering affordable payments, and targeting relief to struggling borrowers who need it rather than blanket bailouts to those who don't. This time is now to support these key reforms, and I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on this amendment?
▶ 2:25:04If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Oregon. All in favor say I. All oppose? No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chairman, I request to record a vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chairman's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of the substitute to the print?
▶ 2:25:32For what purpose does a gentleman seek to be recognized? Uh, thank you. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I I have an amendment at the desk. The clerk will report the amendment for Mr. Courtney. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Courtney of Connecticut. identifier courtney_amd_14.
▶ 2:25:56Does the member from Utah Does the member from from Indiana wish to uh reserve a point of order? Yes, Mr. Chairman. I reserve a point of order. Point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman uh Mr. Courtourtney for five minutes in support of the amendment. Thank you u Mr. chairman and I'm it's a pleasure to talk about a loan forgiveness program that actually uh was initiated by a Republican president um in which um you and I and Mr.
▶ 2:26:27Scott uh were present in uh 2007 when the college cost reduction act was passed and created the public service loan forgiveness program which again was designed to incentivize uh young people to go into um public service jobs, nonprofit organization jobs uh who you know I think um people recognize would not pay as high salary but still provide critical um services and skills
▶ 2:26:57um in our economy. Uh and again the way it worked was that basically if you um you know entered employment in those in that se in those sectors that uh over 10 years of current status in terms of your um position as a borrower the loan uh would be discharged. And again that covers whether it's teachers, nurses, people who served in the US military that had legacy student loan debt when they entered military service.
▶ 2:27:23um people in u the medical profession uh and as I said in the nonprofit uh community. This bill um does change the public service loan forgiveness program um in in what I consider kind of an odd way.
▶ 2:27:36Um it basically says that uh the time that people who are are doctors and physicians um that their residency u uh period of time will not be counted um towards the um 10-year clock for uh loan forgiveness. Again, this is happening at a time when the American Medical Colleges of our nation is is reporting that we have a physician shortage.
▶ 2:28:02um and that that's going to be roughly about 86,000 in the early 2030s. Um as I think the chairman knows quite well in rural areas of the country that physician shortage is even more acute. That's why we're working together on a bill to provide access for um patients who uh again receive their services from nurse practitioners. Um and um so to sort of pick out that one population um is as I said just kind of odd to me.
▶ 2:28:30And in fact, uh, if you talk to, um, young medical students in in both medicine and dentistry, which is covered by this change in the bill, um, their student loan debt in many cases is between three $400,000. So, if there's ever an incentive that we need as a nation when we're dealing with a physician shortage, it is to make sure that they're in fact protected uh, by the public service loan forgiveness.
▶ 2:28:57And my amendment actually does that even by strengthening the public service loan forgiveness program. It it uh is basically the service act which myself and Mr. Doneier introd introduced about a month or so ago which again I think fixed a lot of the issues um that have been identified uh since 2007 to make the process work smoother, shorten uh the length of time for uh payments to qualify uh for discharge um and really I think continue what President Bush started when he signed that measure
▶ 2:29:27into law uh in 2007. Um, under the Trump administration, um, unfortunately, Secretary Dvas actively did everything she could to basically clog up and interfere with discharges. Again, the first cohort started in 2017. Um, and there was litigation and lawsuits that were brought in federal district courts about the fact that the Department of Education was not following the law by discharging qualified borrowers.
▶ 2:29:53Uh, it was less than 1% had been discharged by the time he left office uh, in 2020 under the Biden administration. and particularly under Secretary Cardona. uh they basically restarted the whole process and by the end of uh the administration in early um uh January of this year uh the number of discharges had reached over a million uh of people and that really was just simply keeping a promise that the country made to people who basically changed their life in terms of the jobs that they took
▶ 2:30:23and in terms of the sacrifices they made to keep their borrower payments current so they would actually qualify for what the law required. So again, I I think that one of the problems with the bill here is that particularly targeting the physician and medical sector by shortening or reducing their qualifying months, which this bill proposes, I guess it saves a few bucks um in the system.
▶ 2:30:47But really, it's not connected to what our real workforce needs uh in this country to make make sure that we have accessible health care, quality health care by incentivizing and encouraging young people to go into the medical profession who want to serve in nonprofit sectors, whether it's community health centers or nonprofit hospitals, um that they actually will have a pathway to get out from under these huge six-figure levels of debt.
▶ 2:31:13So again, I urge uh my colleagues to support this measure which builds on the bipartisan record of this committee which we established in 2007 when the public service loan forgiveness program was first created. I yield back. I thank the gentleman. Does the gentleman from Missouri insist on the point of order? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn.
▶ 2:31:40anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize myself then in opposition to this amendment. Public service loan forgiveness may have the good intentions of encouraging more students to enter occupations of need. Unfortunately, the program does not work as intended and instead cost taxpayers billions.
▶ 2:32:06The combination of uncapped forgiveness and uncapped graduate student loans has forced taxpayers to pay for the degrees of well-paid lawyers and others with advanced degrees. The program is slated to cost billions in the future. It is not on a sustainable fiscal path. Making it easier for high student loan balances to be paid by taxpayers does nothing to address the root cause of debt.
▶ 2:32:32high prices for programs that fail to provide graduates the ability to pay off their loans. House Republicans firmly believe education and the workforce should be aligned and reckless expansion of PSLF would not help that. Instead, we should focus on passing the reforms in the bill to actually reduce college costs.
▶ 2:32:55The budgetary cost of this expansion would be vast and balloon the already expensive cost of the program to taxpayers. I oppose this amendment and I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Connecticut. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No.
▶ 2:33:22In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Roll call vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of the substitute to the committee print?
▶ 2:33:51For what purpose do you have? For what purpose does a gentleman from New York seek to be recognized? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I have an amendment at the desk numbered uh, Manion uh, number 21. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Manion of New York identifier Manion AMD_21.
▶ 2:34:23Does the uh gentleman from New Jersey reserve a point of order, excuse me, of of M of Indiana reserve a point of order? Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Manion for 5 minutes in support of the amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:34:48My colleagues and I are deeply alarmed by the author authoritarian-like behavior of Elon Musk and his staff um at uh as they are um taking actions towards the Department of Education. Democrats have conducted significant oversight into what is going on at the uh Department of Ed in the past.
▶ 2:35:10However, congressional Republicans are refusing to acknowledge the damning effect the brash actions of a never congressionally established Department of Government Efficiency will have on students across uh the K12 and higher education systems.
▶ 2:35:26My amendment would prohibit the underlying bill's cuts to student aid until our committee, the committee responsible for conducting federal oversight on behalf of this country's students and families, receives information regarding all of the contracts the Department of Government Efficiency eliminated at the Department of Ed and the ramifications of these cuts on the AY's ability to meet its statutory requirements. This is common sense.
▶ 2:35:53Before radical changes are made to our higher education system, placing new demands and responsibilities on the department, we must know that the Department of Education still has the capacity to handle these changes. And we can only get the answer with transparency on the Department of Government Efficiencies actions. Therefore, I urge my colleagues to support my amendment and let our committee do the oversight that the American people are asking us to do. I yield back.
▶ 2:36:22I thank the gentleman. Uh, does the gentleman from Indiana insist on his point of order? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order. Reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? Mr. Chair, gentleman from California. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I I'd like to offer an amendment to the underlying text. Uh, are we still debating? I'm sorry. debating Representative Manion's amendment.
▶ 2:36:53I withdraw my request. Does anyone else wish to speak on the amendment? I then recognize my uh five minutes to stand opposed to this amendment. It's clear that our federal government has bloat and needs to be There have been countless examples of costly and ineffective government contracts that need to be terminated to bring back value to the taxpayer.
▶ 2:37:22I also want to point out that this amendment would not have a budgetary effect, thus making it not relevant to the current topic of budget reconciliation. I stand opposed to this amendment and urge support for the bill. I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from New York.
▶ 2:37:52All in favor say I. All oppose, no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it. And the amendment is not agreed to. Can I request a recorded vote, please, Mr. Chair? A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print? For what purpose does a gentleman from California?
▶ 2:38:25One more manion. Um, I recognize a gentleman from from New York. The purpose of an amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move to strike the last word in opposition to the underlying bill. This is amendment manion um one. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Manion of New York identifier Manion_MDC_00001.
▶ 2:38:56I recognize the member from Indiana to reserve a point of order. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman, Mr. Manion from New York for five minutes in support of the amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair. While we're contemplating uh these changes to students loans, the Energy and Commerce Committee is considering making draconian cuts to Medicaid. If enacted, these cuts would harm students of all ages and especially students with disabilities.
▶ 2:39:27The Medicaid home and community-based services program serves about 2.6 6 million people nationwide and about 700,000 people are on the waiting list with an average uh wait time of 36 months. All states have at least one HCBS waiver under the federal Medicaid funds under which federal Medicaid funds are used to provide HCBS uh services to people who would otherwise live in institutions.
▶ 2:39:55These waivers provide critical supports and services to people with disabilities so that they can engage in things like higher education and employment rather than living out their lives in institutions. Without the support offered by Medicaid, it would be impossible for certain young people with disabilities to access higher education. Therefore, I ask for this amendment to protect these services for students with disabilities at higher education institutions.
▶ 2:40:22and I encourage my colleagues to support the amendment and vote no on the underlying text. Does Mr. Mesmer uh insist on the point of order? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? If not, I recognize myself for five minutes to speak.
▶ 2:40:52U in opposition to the amendment. The purpose of this amendment is unclear and we have no way of assessing its budgetary impact. The underlying bill is about making budgetary changes to rescue taxpayers from the burden of excessive student lending and in the process bring down college costs for students and families. In addition, how would this amendment be implemented? Who would determine what a negative impact is?
▶ 2:41:18This amendment appears to be just a platform for Democrats to talk about imaginary concerns they have with Republican efforts to reform higher education, to create budgetary savings for taxpayers and better outcomes for students and families. I oppose this amendment and support the underlying bill. I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?
▶ 2:41:43For what purpose is the gentleman, the ranking member from seek recognition to speak in favor of the of the amendment. The gentleman is recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Just very briefly, Mr. Chairman, this amendment emphasizes the effect that Medicaid has on children with disabilities. That's where they get a lot of their services um paid for by Medicaid. Who knows where they would get those services uh if Medicaid were not there.
▶ 2:42:13Now, we know that the school systems have an obligation to provide um care, education for those with disabilities, and if they can do it under Medicaid, that saves the school system that money. A lot of these services are very expensive.
▶ 2:42:32And um as the gentleman from New York pointed out, the Energy and Commerce Committee is um uh in the process of of cutting back Medicaid up to $880 billion. That will affect children with disabilities. If we can avoid that in this bill, that would be very helpful. I um yield back the balance of my time. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 2:43:02Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from New York. All in favor say I. All oppose? No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chair, I request a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed.
▶ 2:43:29Are there any further amendments to the amendment in nature of a substitute to the committee print? For what purpose does a gentleman from from California, Mr. Dano, seek to be recognized? Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer an amendment to the underlying text amendment 01. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Tano of California identifier Takano AMD_01.
▶ 2:44:01I recognize a gentleman from Utah for purposes of a point of order. Mr. Chairman, I reserve point of order. Um, a point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman from California for five minutes in support of his amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:44:20My amendment would strike the proposed repeal of the 2023 borrower borrower defense rule, a consumer protection rule that provides loan relief to borrowers who have been defrauded by their college. Our guiding principle in this body must always be to protect students and give everyone, no matter their economic background, a fair shot. This bill does the opposite.
▶ 2:44:46Rather than making it easier for students of all backgrounds to pursue higher education, join the workforce, and provide for themselves and their families, we are loosening the reigns on the programs and institutions that prey upon them. The purpose of robust borrowers defense to repayment rules is to ensure that students have some recourse when they are defrauded by an institution.
▶ 2:45:13Student loan borrowers should not be forced to repay loans for classes or degrees from schools that have lied to, deceived, and misled them. It happens far too often. In 2023 alone, 770,000 students applied for borrower defense to repayment. With this budget, however, Republicans are cutting predatory institutions and loan servicesers a break instead.
▶ 2:45:43Insteading giving students a break, they're giving predatory institutions and predatory loan services a break instead. By reinstating the framework of the DVAS era borrowers defense rule, Republicans make it significantly harder for student borrowers to make a claim to make a successful claim when they are when they are the victim of misconduct, which happens all too often.
▶ 2:46:10When this rule was last enforced, the Department of Education made the qualifications for a successful claim extremely narrow, including by imposing a statute of limitation on claims, making students sign class action waiverss, allowing for retaliatory action by the student school, and making the burden of proof on the individual student incredibly This extreme deregulation sends a message to
▶ 2:46:40Americans who worked hard for their degree that the federal government does not have the responsibility to protect students and taxpayers from waste, fraud, and abuse in higher education. My Republican colleagues are saying that it's okay that Americans are in crushing debt through no fault of their own.
▶ 2:46:59They're saying that it's okay that people are forced uh to put off decisions about getting married, starting a family, saving for retirement, or finding a secure place to live because they are burdened by debt which will which they will never pay off.
▶ 2:47:16They say that's okay because uh at least the private loan companies and for-profit colleges that lied to, deceived, and misled them will get a No one benefits from pushing students to and over the brink of default. It hurts individuals, their families, and taxpayers as well. This is completely unacceptable, and I urge my colleagues to support my amendment, and I yield back. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 2:47:45Um, does the member from Utah wish to I withdraw my point of order. Reservation is withdrawn. Uh, does anyone seek recognition on the amendment? For what purpose does the gentleman from, uh, Indiana seek recognition? I oppose the amendment offered by my colleague. You're recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:48:09Borrow defense was invoked by the Department of Education as authority to institute a complex regulatory scheme to achieve presidential priorities which has been reeregulated from administration to administration, creating a game of regulatory pingpong. It was dramatically expanded under the Obama administration and was again expanded under the Biden Harris administration. Such changes at the stroke and of an executive pen have budgetary cost to the tens to tens of billions of dollars.
▶ 2:48:38The authority language for borrow defense certainly cannot be interpreted to give the department the authority to completely restructure a program to the tune of billions of dollars. The Biden Harris administration even stonewalled Congress on oversight of this topic. This is why House Republicans were forced to issue a subpoena for documents last Congress.
▶ 2:48:57The Biden administration paid lip service to accountability, but instead saddled institutions with countless ownorous regulations that did nothing to improve outcomes for students and instead cost taxpayers billions. Democrats should should support accountability to the system proposed in the bill, which encourages all colleges to focus on their student success. I'm opposed to this amendment to reinstate such harmful expansive regulator regulations that come at a budgetary cost to the taxpayer and I yield back.
▶ 2:49:28I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on this amendment? For what purpose does a gentleman from Missouri seek recognition to speak in opposition to the amendment? Gentleman is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see the word tax cut on on my colleagues uh poster board.
▶ 2:49:54You know, this brings us back to what this markup today is all about. This is the education and workforce's markup for the reconciliation bill, the big beautiful bill that will renew the 2017 tax cut and jobs act. The theater today illustrates my Democrat colleagues determination to end the 2017 Trump tax cuts.
▶ 2:50:22The Democrats are hellbent on imposing a $4.5 trillion tax increase on the American people, affecting not just the rich, but 95% of a 22% tax increase on the average working family and a 20% tax increase on small businesses to cut the child tax credit in half. That is what this is about.
▶ 2:50:51Republicans seeking to restore some fairness, some accountability, and some fiscal sanity to these higher education programs. and that is what we are here for today and to move toward the renewal of the t tax cut and jobs act. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? Um I recognize the ranking member, Mr. Scott, for purposes of speaking to the amendment. Thank you, Mr. Mr.
▶ 2:51:21Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just want to respond to the comments by the gentle from the gentleman from Missouri. Fact of the matter is that this what we're doing today is part of the overall effort to extend the tax cuts um in an irresponsible budget that actually increases the deficit.
▶ 2:51:41When we talk about uh fiscal responsibility and give speeches, we have to point out that the reconciliation bill that we're passing will actually increase the deficit because it cuts taxes a lot more than we're cutting spending.
▶ 2:51:58And so this bill, this amendment just just says that we shouldn't inflict the burden of having people who've been defrauded pay massive student loans in order to help fund tax cuts for the rich. I hope we would adopt the amendment. I thank the gentleman. Is there further debate on the amendment?
▶ 2:52:27If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from California. All in favor say I. I. All oppose, no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the opinion is not agreed to. I call for roll call vote. Roll call is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a substitute to the committee print?
▶ 2:52:56For what purpose does gentle lady Georgia, Miss Miss McBth seek to be Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk. McBath 016. The clerk will appoint the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss McBath of Georgia, identifier McBath_016.
▶ 2:53:24For what purpose does the member from Missouri seek to reserve a point of order from from Indiana, excuse me. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady from Georgia for five minutes in support of the amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:53:51This amendment would simply ensure that nothing in this act will result in a decrease of the average PEL award to students and families across the country. At a time when the average American is struggling to pay for basic necessities like groceries, the last thing the majority should be doing is lowering the average PEL award and cutting student aid programs for middle and lowincome families.
▶ 2:54:21Education is and should always be a ladder to a better quality of life. But proposals like this under this bill will only ensure that those who can already afford it will be the only ones who can attend college. Republicans are attempting to cut one of the most specific and popular national programs under this committee's jurisdiction.
▶ 2:54:50Scholarship dollars for students who come from the lowest income families in this country. To my Republican colleagues, what are we doing?
▶ 2:55:04One of the greatest benefits of living in America, one that most people I know take real national pride in, is our public commitment to equality of opportunity for all academically. our commitment to the idea of America as the land of opportunity. But that doesn't just happen.
▶ 2:55:30It takes great concerted effort to ensure that we live up to that promise of a society that is based upon merit. And with efforts like this, we only get further and further away from that promise. We make it more difficult and more expensive for people to simply get the skills necessary to provide a decent life for themselves.
▶ 2:55:58Something that is just so simple and it's just so basic. I encourage all of my colleagues to support this amendment to prevent cuts to student aid for the lowest income families in our country. House Republicans are making an active choice to make it more expensive for Americans to provide for themselves.
▶ 2:56:26And as I've stated all morning long, this is wrong. This bill is wrong. What we're doing today, if we're passing this bill, it is wrong. I encourage my colleagues to vote yes on this amendment and I yield back the balance of my time. Thank the gentle lady. This gentleman from Indiana insist on the point of order. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order. Reservation is withdrawn.
▶ 2:56:56Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize the gentleman from Washington State for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. uh like to speak against the amendment. Uh the Pell Grant has long been a cornerstone for federal student aid that enjoys bipartisan support and is a tool to target aid to the neediest of students. Uh that's why it's important and that's what we would like to protect.
▶ 2:57:24But the PEL grant program is in crisis. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the program faces a near 100 billion dollar shortfall in the next 10 years. If Congress does not act to make PEL grants sustainable, there will be no other option than drastic cuts. This includes decreasing the Pell Grant award, which this amendment is concerned about. House Democrats continually make empty promises about the PEL program without addressing outcomes for PEL students or the fiscal realities about the program.
▶ 2:57:55The federal budget cannot sustain unrealistic increases to the Pell Grant. House Democrats proposed massive spending on other policies such as former President Biden's student loan forgiveness scam, expansion of taxpayer subsidies for graduate loans, and even free college for illegal immigrants. Reckless Democrat spending is neither a responsible nor genuine solution. In fact, it would likely benefit high-income individuals at the expense of workingclass Pell Grant eligible individuals.
▶ 2:58:21Our current broken student aid system has done nothing to reduce college costs in the past three decades. Continually throwing more money at rising costs will not solve the problem. Fortunately, reforms in this bill ensure the Pell Grant contributes to a strong student outcomes, goes towards students in need, and remains fiscally sustainable. The plan's accountability system will put downward pressure on college cost, allowing PEL dollars to cover a higher percentage of tuition.
▶ 2:58:47It also rewards institutions for enrolling and graduating PEL students in high performing low-cost programs. Our plan also expands the PEL grant to help students pay for short-term highquality workforce programs and replenishes the PEL program plucking the looming PEL budgetary shortfall over the next several years. For these reasons, uh I urge us to reject this amendment. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?
▶ 2:59:20If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Georgia. All in favor say I. I. All oppose, no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Chair, I ask a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to to the committee print?
▶ 2:59:52For what purpose does a gentleman, the ranking member from Virginia, Mr. Scott, seek recognition? I have an amendment at the desk designated MMD_05. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Scott of V of Virginia identifier Scott AMD_05.
▶ 3:00:18For what purpose does the member from Indiana seek to be recognized? Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member for five minutes in support of his amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Mr. Chairman, this amendment would strike section 3031 about PEL grant eligibility.
▶ 3:00:41The um as in the bill uh would increase the definition would would change the definition of full-time increasing the number of credits required from 12 per semester to 30 per year to be considered part-time.
▶ 3:01:01This would cut PEL grants for for students juggling work and school, parenting students with child care responsibilities, caretakers and individuals facing financial burdens. It would cut Pell grants two ways. One, if you're not um if you're not fulltime, then it will cut proportionately.
▶ 3:01:27If you're not the full 3030 per year, it will cut proportionately your PEL grant based on the number of credit hours. And if you're not at least halfime, it would deny you any help at all by um increasing the number of credit hours to be considered a full-time student.
▶ 3:01:46The majority is forcing students to choose between taking additional courses even if recommended against the recommendation of their school u or having their PEL grant cut by thousands of dollars because of the proportionate cut or of course being denied PEL grant support at all if you're not at least a half-time student.
▶ 3:02:08And a lot of students working uh will take uh several courses a year, nowhere close to full-time just because that's as many as they can take and they want to make sure that they're chipping away at the requirements for graduation and after several years finally get there. That opportunity would be denied if um if this bill passes without my amendment.
▶ 3:02:34And remember uh this this entire effort is designed to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. And so those tax cuts are being funded by denying part-time less than part-time student less than half less than uh half time students are being denied PEL grants altogether and cutting back on those who are taking um 12 C 12 semester um 12 credit hours per semester.
▶ 3:03:03two semesters a year, they would be losing money in order to help fund tax cuts for the wealthy. I would hope that we would um not do that to our students and adopt the amendment. I yield back. Uh does a gentleman, Mr. Mason, insist on the point of order? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order.
▶ 3:03:33Uh, does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? yes. Uh, Mr. Smith Georgia. Uh, thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Um, I support this amendment and the provisions in this bill, all underlying bill simply do not help PEL grants whatsoever.
▶ 3:03:54And I'm going to be speaking about the fact that I spend a lot of time in my community in Georgia with our uh 2year facilities or two-year institutions and also our technical training schools. And a good number of those students are depending on the PEL grants to be able to get their certifications and licensing. A lot of those students as well, they're adult students. uh quite a number of them are adult students, but a lot of them are also working part-time.
▶ 3:04:25They also are caretakers for family members that are aging or or sick or bedridden. And so I just think to unduly put more burden on our PE PEL grants is not incentivizing our students to get the certification and licensing that they need. And you know, there are a lot of students that are going to these two-year institutional and certification institutions because they simply can't afford to go to four-year institutions.
▶ 3:04:51And so, I once again want to say and reiterate that I support this amendment. Um, the underlying provisions in this bill are not going to help the PEL grants. They're not going to help all the numbers of students that are depending lowincome families and students that are depending on these PEL grants.
▶ 3:05:10is that only means an opportunity for them to financially be able to get the education that they deserve and need to be able to lift themselves sometimes up out of poverty and and also be able to really uh be good contributors to their community uh and the workforce environment. And I Does anyone else um seek recognition on this amendment? Thank you.
▶ 3:05:40Um, I'd like to speak in support of the amendment. As someone who was a teacher for almost 30 years in a public school setting, I had a close relationship with many of my students as they moved on to higher education.
▶ 3:05:58And um I know because I spent a great deal of time with them uh that the um impact that certain situations that occurred in their own lives uh could have on their ability to uh be enrolled for 15 credit hours per semester to maintain a status to be able to receive these grants.
▶ 3:06:20um a number of different things that uh my colleague Representative Mcbath mentioned and I associate myself with comments. Many individuals who are going to college uh need to spend time caring for their aging parents. Sometimes they need to spend time caring for siblings or others in their family that may have health issues or may have have a disability.
▶ 3:06:48And it has been my experience uh in connecting with over a hundred uh students a year over the course of 30 years that this is often the norm rather than the outlying situation.
▶ 3:07:04As my colleague referenced, many individuals need to be gainfully employed to support their families, support their own education, and therefore it is uh sometimes necessary and obvious that they take a reduced number of credit hours to advance their own education at that time and then eventually be able to contribute to their community.
▶ 3:07:32maybe in a health profession, maybe in an educational profession. Um, but regardless of what they pursue, they need the flexibility to be able to still receive these grants and advance that education.
▶ 3:07:48Um, some of the students themselves have disabilities and as a result to maintain either their health or or to have a manageable um course load it would be necessary that have 12 credit hours and no more.
▶ 3:08:08Um it has been my experience again over the course of uh many years in the classroom and also many of my friends and and my uh their children, my own children have had to reduce their number of hours for a variety of different reasons because simply life happens and we should not penalize these students as a result of having to support uh their own education with income being employed uh There
▶ 3:08:39could be other things like dedication to volunteer organizations that they are passionate about. Um supporting their parents, their siblings, their grandparents in being able to be a a caregiver for each of them. Also, it can be challenging to meet um a college course uh based on transportation needs that individuals may have.
▶ 3:09:06Also, mid-semester things can occur and it may become necessary for a student to reduce their class load. So, for all of those reasons and more, I support this amendment and uh support what we have right now, which is the flexibility of students to live, support their families, support themselves, and still gain an education. And with that, I yield back. Thank you. Does anyone else seek recognition on this amendment?
▶ 3:09:38I I recognize now this court for five minutes. Great. Thank you uh Mr. chairman and um again I support um this amendment which would restore um the Pell Grant program and wanted to just follow up again on some of my um colleagues comments regarding the um real harsh impact of the the the underlying bill in terms of students who um uh again because of life in terms of their jobs uh because of family commitments um uh
▶ 3:10:08take less than a full load of uh college credits uh but still are at a economic position where the Pell Grant is instrumental or existential in terms of them being able to skill up and take advantage of um job openings that exist in their local uh labor market. During the two-e break I visited two job fairs.
▶ 3:10:29One was a healthcare focused job fair where we had uh every hospital, nursing home, community health center, all there with uh tables and brochures and swag trying to get uh again uh particularly high school age and and young adults excited about the fact that there's job openings for careers in healthcare. At that um event, the local community college was very prominent because they've got a great uh accelerated nursing program.
▶ 3:10:58Um, and the profile of the student that will take advantage of that really fits into the the population or the cohort that this bill punishes by basically cutting them off from PEL grants. I went to another job fair which was for manufacturing jobs. Uh, like Mr. Scott, we both u have shipyards um in our district. There's lots of job openings. I check every day. There's probably roughly 800 openings. Again, a lot of them in the metal trades. Same thing at the um job fair.
▶ 3:11:27There was a lot of uh folks there from the big shipyard, but also supply chain companies and the local community colleges because they have sheet metal programs, uh welding programs, electrician programs that really will allow people to connect to careers that um you know otherwise they just don't have the skills to to really take advantage of.
▶ 3:11:49And again, the local community college there was again Three Rivers Community College, which was at the healthcare um job fair and Quinnabog Community College up in the northeast corner of the state of Connecticut. Again, the the beauty of the community colleges is the flexibility to be able to adjust to people's schedules who again want to take advantage of opportunities to get direct skills that are connected to the local job market to qualify for PEL grants, which basically makes it tuitionfree
▶ 3:12:20for for most of them. So, there's no student loan debt that they're accumulating by uh choosing that path. And what this bill will do is just totally foreclose um that opportunity, which is not just going to harm them individually and their families, but it's also going to harm employers who uh again were all lined up at these job fairs just in the last two weeks or so.
▶ 3:12:42So um again the uh I don't I think everybody is always interested in better ways to uh run programs but to just sort of have a draconian indiscriminate cut to um students who again are very much focused in terms of uh responding to the needs in their community. Um and community colleges are poised to help them um succeed in terms of achieving that goal.
▶ 3:13:10to cut that opportunity off um again is just a real step backwards as I said not just for for students and their families um but our communities and our local economies. Again, I um strongly support this amendment which will restore opportunity for uh so many people across the country which today community colleges are a lifeline. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 3:13:33Does anyone else seek recognition on this U Miss Ponyichi for five minutes. Yeah, thank you very much. I I want to speak in favor of the amendment, please. So, uh this is about PEL grants and as I explained earlier, uh when I went to college, I did it on my own. Uh and I would not be here today without the grants and loans and work study.
▶ 3:14:02Uh my parents were not in a position to pay for college. I was on my own. I took some time off after high school and after working for a few years I decided to pursue a higher education starting with community college and then law school and PEL grants made that possible for me. They're the single largest source of federal grant aid supporting students including me when I was in college.
▶ 3:14:24I also want to say that it was long enough ago that uh I was able to pay back my student loan debt after seven years of higher education uh in in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of debt. Uh but although PAL grants have rightfully enjoyed bipartisan support as written, this bill drastically restricts eligibility in two major ways. By setting full-time attendance at 30 credits per year, the bill would slash PEL grant awards by about 20%.
▶ 3:14:51It also disqualifies students from receiving PEL grants if they're enroled in college less than halfime. That's going to disproportionately harm community college students. Again, like I was I I was also working when I was in college, uh working sometimes full-time and taking classes part-time.
▶ 3:15:08And as the cost of higher education continues to rise, we should focus on investing in students, growing the PEL award, maintaining eligibility requirements and not limiting student access to federal aid, and pushing uh non-traditional, again, like me, low-income students out of college. For these reasons, I support the ranking members amendment to strike the provisions of the bill that unnecessarily and harmfully limit PEL eligibility.
▶ 3:15:32And I did mention earlier the group of students I met with just a few days ago in Oregon who uh were either at uh Classic Community College or hoping to attend Classic Community College over on Oregon's beautiful uh Pacific coast. They were there because they had the support of the TRIO program. They were there because they had somebody encouraging them and they knew that and again it created that dream for them that they would be able to go to college and that is because of the TRIO program. That is because of PEL grants.
▶ 3:16:02It's because the doors of opportunity open to them. Let's not shut the door of opportunity to students across this country. Uh please uh support this amendment and oppose the underlying bill and I yield back. Is there further debate on the amendment? Seeing no further debate. The question is on the amendment. Yes. I'm sorry.
▶ 3:16:32By the gentleman from Virginia. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed.
▶ 3:17:00Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print? Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk Omar MN15. The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 3:17:29Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Omar of Minnesota identifier Omar MN_015 motion. Does the gentleman from Indiana have a motion? Yes, Mr. Chairman. I reserve a point of order. Point of order is reserved.
▶ 3:17:59I now recognize the gentle lady from Minnesota uh for five minutes in support of the amendment. Thank you. Uh my amendment specifically strikes the devastating exclusion of part-time students from the bell grant program. 912,000 students are estimated to be impacted by this disastrous policy in my state of Minnesota where about 15 to 19,000 students will be put at risk.
▶ 3:18:26Almost a quarter of all community college students who receive Bell Grant are enrolled part-time at some point during the academic year. Students who enroll less than halfime are usually workingclass adults taking one or two courses while they juggle family and job responsibilities. These are parents who are also students who are just trying to take care of their children while obtaining a degree.
▶ 3:18:51These are students with disabilities, students facing health challenges and caretakers who shouldn't have to choose between an affordable uh between affording an education and their well-being or that of their family. Over a quarter of grant recipients have dependent children. Over half work 20 hours a week or more.
▶ 3:19:14These students won't be able to easily increase their academic workload to full-time without great sacrifice to their family or economic stability. This Republican proposal would force them to make that impossible choice or risk having their bell grant awards cut by potentially thousands of dollars, at which point they might be forced to drop out due to prohibitive high costs.
▶ 3:19:42I was a parent when I was a student trying to attain college degree. I experienced firsthand the challenges and the delicate balance of acting to manage child care and taking care of my children and completing college enrollment. It was far from easy. Parent programs like the Pell Grant for part-time students are absolutely viral.
▶ 3:20:04to rip this assistant away from those who need it most will do nothing to improve educational outcomes in this country or improve our economy. I urge my colleagues to vote for this amendment. Thank you and I yield back. Does the gentleman insist on the point of order? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn.
▶ 3:20:28Does anyone else seek recognition on the If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleoman from Minnesota. All in favor say I. All oppose, no. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed A roll code vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, the vote will be postponed.
▶ 3:20:57Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print? Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk. Omar MN16. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Omar of Minnesota. identifier Omar MN_016. Does the gentleman from uh Indiana have a point of order? Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved.
▶ 3:21:27I will now recognize the gentleoman from Minnesota for five minutes in support of the amendment. Thank you. My amendment would strike the sunset on the economic hardship provision for student loan borrowers. Sunsetting this protection would cause widespread harm to struggling students and workers with the impact being felt across the entire country. I hope I don't need to remind my colleagues across the aisle that these are deeply uncertain economic times.
▶ 3:21:53That is why access to quality affordable education is essential and as critical is ensuring that people aren't crushed with debt when economic disruptions occur. The economic hardship deferment is an important stabilizer. It gives borrowers the breathing room that they need during periods of unemployment, underemployment, and career transition.
▶ 3:22:19Removing this protection ignores the challenges that workers might face today and would leave them exposed to uncertainties of tomorrow. And it will be working parents, essential workers, and lowincome people, not the wealthy, who will bear the brunt of this pain when the next economic shock hits. These are the workers who are seeking higher education not as a luxury but for but for a fair chance at an economic mobility.
▶ 3:22:49Whether the next downturn is self-inflicted or not, Congress must stand with workers and families who are most vulnerable during destabilizing times. Supporting the resilience of our workforce should not be a partisan issue.
▶ 3:23:05If we are serious about building a dynamic, competitive and inclusive economy, then we must be serious about removing barriers to educational opportunity and economic security and not end up locking students and workers into rigid punitive repayment systems that ignore the real world and trap them in debt. I urge my colleagues to vote for this sensible amendment. Thank you and I yield back.
▶ 3:23:33Does anyone else see recognition on the amendment? Seeing none, the question is on the amendment by the gentleoman from Minnesota. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No. The opinion of the chair. The nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. I ask for a recorded uh vote. A roll co vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee Mr. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 3:24:02Omar uh AMD 30. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Omar, Minnesota, identifier Omar_AMD_30. Does the gentleman insist on the point of order? Yes, Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. Point of order is the reservation is uh point of order is reserved. Uh the gentleoman from Minnesota is recognized for five minutes. Thank you.
▶ 3:24:32My amendment prohibits any wage or social security garnishment uh practices from devolted loans. Working families across the nation are being forced to navigate unpre unprecedented economic In addition to the rapid rise in costes of everyday goods, we are also facing the economic fallout from the mass firing of over 24,000 federal workers.
▶ 3:25:00And now these families will be unable to access the full suite of affordable repayment options when managing their student loans. Instead, Republicans have propped up a repayment plan in this bill that will raise monthly prices and almost certainly result in more defaults. They are setting people up for failure.
▶ 3:25:23I have borrowers in my district who have shared that if their monthly payments are hiked that they will have no choice but to default. They simply cannot pay. And now the Trump administration has outrageously announced that they will be begin penalizing borrowers who fall behind on their student loan payments.
▶ 3:25:45More than 5 million borrowers are currently in default and an estimated 9 million borrowers are behind on their payments and on track to default by the end of this year. People do not choose this. No one wants to default on their loans. They default because they simply cannot afford to make payments. And far too long, the system has failed to provide our most vulnerable borrowers the support they need.
▶ 3:26:12Nearly 40% of federal borrowers over the age of 65 are in default. And the GAO found that garnishment of social security benefits due to defaulted student loans pushed tens of thousands of seniors deeper into poverty. It is beyond cruel to subject millions of our fellow Americans to these incredibly harmful tactics. Our constituents deserve so much better than this.
▶ 3:26:40Garnishment will not set people up to free themselves from their debt. It would only keep them shackled for longer. I urge my colleagues to vote for this amendment. Thank you and I yield back. Does the gentleman insist on the point of order? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? Gentleman from Missouri is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I stand opposed to this amendment.
▶ 3:27:09The very nature of a loan is a promise from borrowers. It is a promise the borrower will repay. We understand that sometimes there are circumstances in which borrowers can struggle for repayment. This can be particularly true when you have multiple and confusing repayment options. or a Democrat administration who that for four years offered false promises to students.
▶ 3:27:36The repayment reforms in this bill clean up the Democrats mess by unraveling the tangled web of repayment options and helping the very people my colleagues on the other side of the aisle claim to care about. Our new repayment assisted assistance plan provides affordable payments and targeted assistance to struggling borrowers and simplifies the system in ways that will reduce the likelihood that borrowers default in the first place.
▶ 3:28:03We also allow borrowers to rehabilitate their loans two times to allow them to get back on track and wipe out the black mark that default would place on their credit score. Borrowers who make good faith efforts to be in repayment will not be hit with wage garnishments. Indeed, the bill allows borrowers to rehabilitate th their loans and and and repair their credit.
▶ 3:28:26That time, that being said, at a certain point, borrowers who choose to not follow through and with their promise to repay, garnishment might be necessary. Garnishment only takes place after borrowers ignore multiple chances to repay their loans and hold up their promise to taxpayers. In this worst case scenario, we as lawmakers have a responsibility to taxpayers, including the countless individuals who never went to college to take steps to recoup those losses.
▶ 3:28:54I am opposed to this amendment and I urge support for the underlying bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on this amendment? Recognize the gentle lady from Oregon. Uh, thank you, M. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I'm I'm speaking in favor of the amendment. And I I I just want to preface this by saying that one of the jobs I had as a a legal assistant was working at legal aid where we were helping low-income families.
▶ 3:29:22And I quickly realized that people were there not by choice. They weren't choosing to struggle. oftentimes they had lost a job, lost a spouse, oftentimes had medical bills they couldn't pay. Uh there's an implication that uh that people are just choosing to not pay back their loans. And I've had many conversations over the years with people who are simply struggling for circumstances beyond their control. It's not that they choose not to pay.
▶ 3:29:46And I mentioned earlier that I've spoken with people who owe more than they borrowed even though they've been making payments. So the system truly is broken. Uh and and I want to say that that uh you know borrowers struggling to repay were just as as Representative Omar were saying drive them farther into poverty. The implication that this is something that is borrowers are just choosing is I think truly misguided. And I want to note that uh borrowers in Mr.
▶ 3:30:14Representative Andre's district currently owe $244,859,000 in federal student loans. And these proposals will harm the constituents who are just trying to make ends meet. And as we see costs going up, not down. People are struggling. They're struggling to put food on the table. Housing costs are high. And to imply that people just don't want to pay back their student loans is misguided. People are struggling.
▶ 3:30:40They should definitely not have their uh social security and and Medicare checks garnished. Uh let's uh again open the doors of opportunity to higher education, not drive people away from higher education and further into poverty. And I yield back. Gentle lady yields. Does anyone wish to speak on further speak on the amendment?
▶ 3:31:13If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Minnesota. All in favor say I. I. All oppose, no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Chairman, I ask for recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print? Mr. Chair, I have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 3:31:41Omar A M D C H The clerk will report 002. The clerk will report the Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Omar of Minnesota identifier Omar_MD_00002. Mr. Owen, do you reserve a point of Uh chairman, I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved.
▶ 3:32:09I now recognize the gentle lady from Minnesota, Miss Omar, for five minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My amendment would ensure that nothing in this bill could undermine Medicaid coverage for students. While we debate these drastic cuts to student aid, the Energy and Commerce Committee is simultaneously considering $880 billion in cuts to Medicaid.
▶ 3:32:35These draconian cuts would have a tremendous impact on those seeking higher education, not least of all the 3.5 million college students who are currently enrolled in Medicaid. Just consider my constituent AJ, who relies on Medicaid for her healthc care coverage so that she can focus on being a full-time pharmacy student.
▶ 3:33:02Without access to Medicaid, AJ would fall into healthc care coverage gap where her only alternative would be a plan she cannot afford, going uninsured or dropping out of college. How can my co colleagues across the across the aisle claim with a straight face that this proposal will help students when they are quite literally pitting their futures against their health?
▶ 3:33:32The previous expansion of Medicaid eligibility led to students making more progress towards graduation and improved financial well-being for lowincome young adults. We cannot allow cuts to Medicaid to undermine this progress. I urge my colleagues to vote for this amendment. I thank you and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady. Does the gentleman from Utah insist on his point of order? I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn.
▶ 3:34:00Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? Representative from Guam, Mr. Molen, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I stand opposed to this Nothing in this bill touches Medicaid in any form or fashion. Our colleagues in the Energy and Commerce Committee led by Chair Guthrie are working to make sensible reforms to Medicaid.
▶ 3:34:27Republicans as a conference will protect those who rely on Medicaid, the most individuals with disabilities, pregnant women, children, and seniors, by putting guard rails in place to keep out ineligible beneficiaries, and removing decreased beneficiaries who divert resources away from those who actually need care.
▶ 3:34:51Republicans will put Medicaid on a suitable path for future generations of those in need by expensive Biden Harris regulations that are costing hundreds of billions of dollars.
▶ 3:35:06Republicans will ensure Medicaid only pays for American citizens and legal immigrants by strengthening citizenship verification to determine eligibility, saving tens of billions of Republicans will increase personal accountability to help lift Americans out of poverty by establishing work requirements for ablebodied adults who do not have dependent children or elderly parents in their care.
▶ 3:35:36Mr. Chairman, I oppose this amendment and urge my support for this bill. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? The gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi, is recognized for five minutes. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, if in fact the comments my colleague on the other side of the aisle made are correct, then they shouldn't have any trouble supporting this amendment because it would prohibit this bill from being construed as limiting enrolled students access to Medicaid, which it sounds like my colleague said is not happening.
▶ 3:36:07But I tell you, it sure feels to the people back home, and I've spoken with a lot of them, that the Republicans are sort of stealing the hard-earned tax dollars dollars of Oregonians and Americans to pay for this giant tax cut that will benefit uh mostly those who are very wealthy and and corporations. So, the the the concern about ripping health care away from low-income and working families and children, uh that would take us back to the days where, you know, if you get sick, you go without treatment or you go bankrupt.
▶ 3:36:34Uh people used to have incredible amounts of medical debt and they still do which is why we need to reform health care as well. But in Oregon, one in three people are covered by Medicaid and that includes uh 57% of Oregon children. Uh the counties in Oregon with the highest percent uh of Medicaid recipients are rural red counties, just so you know. So Republicans say that the reconciliation legislation won't touch Medicaid. And by voting for this amendment, they have an opportunity to prove it.
▶ 3:37:02So, I support the amendment and I encourage all my colleagues to vote yes to protect health care for vulnerable students and I yield I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Minnesota. All in favor say I. All oppose? No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. I ask for a recorded vote.
▶ 3:37:32A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and nature of the substitute to the committee print? What purpose does the gentle lady from Minnesota? Mr. Chair, I have an amendment at the desk. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of the substitute to committee print offered by Miss Omar of Minnesota, identifier Omar_01.
▶ 3:37:59Does the member of from Utah wish to reserve a point of order? Mr. Chairman, I reserve point of order. Point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady from Minnesota for five minutes in support of the amendment. Thank you, chairman. Um, I want to take a step back for a moment.
▶ 3:38:16Um this convoluted um hundred baged bill that we received 24 hours ago is supposed to increase academic achievement and uh economic opportunity for students. But as many of my colleagues have been pointing out today, not only does this bill not achieve that goal, but it actually tears down the lives and livelihoods of so many across the country.
▶ 3:38:43This bill would force millions of working families with student loans to pay significantly more on their monthly bills when they are already struggling to keep up with the rising costs of food, rent, and child care. All while stripping their borrower protections and pushing them into predatory private market. Last vote before we go for vote.
▶ 3:39:04I am putting forward an amendment to strike the entirety of this sham bill and replace it with my student debt cancellation act so that I can enter into the record this fundamental truth. Thank you. The true barrier to economic mobility for individual and economic growth for the collective is the extens the existence of unmanageable debt for millions of Americans.
▶ 3:39:33And thanks to predatory interest rates and punitive repayment plans, this type of debt can easily bloom bloom into decades of hardship for families. Student debt reduces home ownership rates, shrinks net worth, and hurts small businesses. It is one of the highest sources of debt for Americans, second only to mortgages. Mr.
▶ 3:39:58Chair, I would like to enter into the record a fact sheet from Roosevelt Institute titled How cancelelling is student debt can boost growth, equity, and innovation. Without objection, it will be entered. Thank you. This document outlines how cancelling student debt can provide an immediate overall economic boost, allowing Americans to pay down other debts, start businesses, and spend more on the broader economy.
▶ 3:40:29cancellation could boost national consumption levels by at least as much as 4% and increase the GDP by more than hundred billion dollar over 10 years. If we seriously want to transform outcomes for students, we should prioritize policies that strengthen economic freedom and mobility, not entrench them further into debt.
▶ 3:40:58With that, I withdraw this amendment and yield back. I thank the gentle lady. A vote has been called in the house. We'll return 20 minutes after the last vote has been called in this series. After the last vote has been called in this series, 20 minutes after that, we'll return. The committee is now in recess.
▶ 4:31:51The committee will come to order. We finished up with a Omar amendment being withdrawn. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of substitute committee print? For what purpose does a gentleman from California, Mr. Donier, seek to be recognized? Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 4:32:23The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Design of California identifier AMD 16. Does the member from California, Mr. Kylie, wish to reserve a point of order? Yes, Mr. Chairman. I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. And now recognize the gentleman from California for five minutes in support of his amendment.
▶ 4:32:53Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the last four months, the president and his administration have taken actions that crit critically undermine hard one supports and protections for students with disabilities. I don't think any member wants that to happen to hard-earned support for our disabled kids.
▶ 4:33:14There are 7 and a half million students with disabilities in the United States who rely on career experts at the Department of Education to protect their civil rights and administer special education programs under IDA. IDA was signed by President Gerald Ford with a promise that we would protect special needs and special education students.
▶ 4:33:37Unfortunately, since January, the administration has worked to dismantle the Department of Education, including by cutting nearly half of its staff, shutting down entire offices, and shifting critical programs to other agencies that are poorly equipped to manage them. In March, the administration announced their plan to move special education programs from the Department of Department of Education to the Department of Health and Human Services.
▶ 4:34:04Not only is HHS's shrinking worse force not equipped to administer special education programs with little expertise in this matter, but the secretary himself seems to lack a basic understanding of developmental disabilities. In addition, the administration has sought to close several regional civil rights office, including the one in region 9 in San Francisco, closest to my district.
▶ 4:34:28This action strips away a key federal backs stop against discrimination, including for students with disabilities. The administration and the Department of Education have been sued in federal court over their illegal and unconstitutional attempts to dismantle public education and undermine civil rights investigations.
▶ 4:34:50When these cases reach verdicts, it is critical that the administrations comply with those outcomes, whether or not they align with their views about the federal role in public education and protections for students who have special needs. My amendment, in my view, is no way controversial.
▶ 4:35:08It simply requires that before the provisions in this bill go into effect, the Secretary of Education certify that the department is complying with all existing court orders and the department will comply with any future orders that may be issued during the rest of the president's term. I urge my colleagues to support my amendment and I yield back. Does a gentleman from California insist on the point of order? I withdraw my point of order. reservation is withdrawn.
▶ 4:35:38Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? If no member uh seeks recognition, I now recognize myself for five minutes. In opposition, I oppose this amendment.
▶ 4:35:54The Department of Education already operates under our legal system and is under the legal process just like everyone else in this I appreciate my colleagues interest in ensuring all dividends individuals follow the law, but the wording of this amendment provides no additional substance. I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment and support the underlying bill. Thank you, and I yield to speak on the bill.
▶ 4:36:24I recognize the gentle lady from Oregon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just briefly want to speak in favor of the amendment. Um, and at a time when uh uh public education is under attack, I I I just want to note I just had a conversation recently with uh uh teachers uh who teach students with disabilities and parents of disabled students and they are feeling very anxious and threatened right now in large part because of some of the comments that have been made by the secretary.
▶ 4:36:52Uh, so I don't see any harm in re-emphasizing our nation's commitment to IDA and to students with disabilities. So I don't see any downside whatsoever. I see an upside in sending a message to families across the country that we care about their students. We understand that students with disabilities and uh students who qualify for IDA are entitled to an education in this country. So I strongly support Mr. DNA's amendment and I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 4:37:23I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from California. All in favor say I. All oppose. No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed to. I'd like a voice, please. A roll call vote is ordered. Yes, please.
▶ 4:37:52Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a substitute to the committee For what purpose does the gentleman for Virginia, the ranking member, seek to be recognized? Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk AMD_20.
▶ 4:38:21The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Scott of Virginia, identifier Scott_AMD_20. Um, does the uh gentleman from California wish to reserve a point of order? Yes, Mr. Chair. I reserve a point of order. Point of order is preserved is reserved.
▶ 4:38:47I now recognize the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member for five minutes in support of his amendment. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this amendment would strike the repayment plan in the bill and replace it with the saving a valuable education or save plan that uh President Biden had developed. Save plan is one of the most affordable repayment plans ever offered to borrowers. It's the kind of investment we need to support borrows, their families, and our economy.
▶ 4:39:17Under the in the bill, we have the Republican plan, which has students paying more in swing for a longer period of time. The plan offered by the Republicans also removes a possible zero payment option and requires borrowers, even those with little or no income, to pay a minimum of $10. We should be focused on uh how to ensure the students and families don't spend their whole lives in debt.
▶ 4:39:44But under the GOP plan, they can be paying for 30 years. Whereas under the save plan, depending on the balance, 10 to 25 years, but everybody under the plan in the bill will be paying for 30 years. I encourage my colleagues to stand with students and support the amendment. I thank the gentlemen.
▶ 4:40:09Are there any other members who wish to speak on the amendment? And I will yield myself five minutes to speak on the amendment. I stand opposed to this This is one of the key points of this entire piece of legislation to rid us of the save plan which is a which is a huge part of the problem.
▶ 4:40:36As I mentioned previously, the maze of repayment options and current mess of repayment is due to President Biden's um false promises. I guess I would stay specifically to borrows about rewriting payment plans in ways Congress never intended or authorized.
▶ 4:41:02These plans were a direct contributor to helping fuel ever rising costs as institutions could charge exorbitant prices and encourage students to enter these new plans despite poor economic outcomes. These repayment plans are designed for borrowers to never repay at all. Extremely minimal monthly payments meant that borrowers simply saw their balances grow every month with ballooning interest.
▶ 4:41:32The save plan, which this amendment would codify, is perhaps the iteration of of of this. Instead of lowering prices, the CBO, Congressional Budget Office, estimated instead that it fueled in large part by the SAVE plan, students would now likely borrow 10 to 15 billion dollars more each year just to afford college because institutions will continue
▶ 4:42:02to raise their prices knowing that taxpayers will foot the bill. Democrat presidents pro promised forgiveness at the end of the tunnel, but borrowers were left with the mental stress of watching their debt grow for 20 plus years. This is a cruel way to use borrowers as political pawns and wield repayment plans as a backdoor attempt for taxpayers to subsidize student loans.
▶ 4:42:28Unsurprisingly, this forgiveness comes at a ridiculous taxpayer cost as taxpayers, many of which never went to college, are forced to pay off debts of wealthy individuals with graduate degrees.
▶ 4:42:43Save even allows for payments of zero dollars to count towards timebased forgiveness policies, letting borrowers gain the system while institutions can keep charging exorbitant prices and pass along those uh to the taxpayer. CBO has estimated that the save plan costs taxpayers at least $220 billion in the next decade.
▶ 4:43:09In contrast, the repayment plan in this bill gives struggling borrowers a way to stay in repayment while also keep college costs low and be responsible to taxpayers. Borrowers have a minimum monthly payment of $10. That's right. But have their base payments es calculated based on borrower's total adjusted gross income. They also receive a $50 deduction per dependent child the borrower has.
▶ 4:43:39The plan offers balance assistance to borrowers making their required on-time payments by waving unpaid interest and providing a matching payment to principal of up to $50, which will ensure borrowers will always see their balances go down unlike SAVE.
▶ 4:43:57The save plan costs taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars, forces students to watch their balance balloon, and actually increases college costs as institutions raise prices and force more borrowing. I stand opposed to this amendment and urge support for the bill instead. I yield back. Are there any others who wish to speak on the bill?
▶ 4:44:26If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Virginia. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed to. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a substitute to the committee print? I recognize a gentleman from California, Mr.
▶ 4:44:55Chano, uh for um u to present his amendment. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um I have an amendment to the desk. Amendment AM Tano- AMD-03. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Mr. Tano of California identifier Tano_amd_03. Does a member from California wish to reserve a point of order?
▶ 4:45:25Yes, Mr. Chair. Reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman from California for 5 minutes in support of his amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh the intent behind my amendment strikes the repeal of the 9010 and the bipartisan 9010 veterans loophole fix.
▶ 4:45:45I have consistently advocated for closing the 9010 loophole, a measure uh in which for-profit colleges would receive the majority of the GI Bill tuition money. The closing of the 9010 rule loophole was widely celebrated as a bipartisan success.
▶ 4:46:05The rule was precipitated by approval in the Senate and the House in March 2021, and consensus was reached during negotiated rulemaking on the issue, reflecting negotiation and concessions by both student veterans groups and for-profit colleges.
▶ 4:46:25For years, I have sounded the alarm on the for-profit system and how egregious the predatory actions of for-profit universities have defrauded and harmed students. And one of the reasons I ran for Congress was because I witnessed firsthand recruiters from for-profit colleges aggressively recruiting and luring students in into lowquality programs. Too many women, minorities, and veterans have fallen prey.
▶ 4:46:55And as the former chair of the House Veterans Affairs Committee and now the ranking member, I have seen countless instances of our men and women in uniform being prayed on and targeted for the sheer benefit of the GI Bill. Now, these heroes were viewed as nothing more than dollar signs, viewed as a means to line the pockets of unscrupulous actors to increase their profit margins.
▶ 4:47:22To add insult to injury, when some of these forprofits shut down, suddenly taxpayers are left to foot the bill. And by closing this loophole, Congress deemed holding predatory forprofits accountable was necessary to safeguard federal education benefits and ultimately protect taxpayers and students.
▶ 4:47:44We know that students attending for-profit colleges are far less likely to graduate than those at public colleges and more likely to default on their loans across the board. For-profits are simply better at marketing than public institutions. And frankly, money is the motivating factor. We repeatedly, we've repeatedly seen that these types of programs continue to fail, but collect their funds irrespectively and indiscriminately.
▶ 4:48:13Brookings stated, quote, "For-profit colleges only enroll 10% of students, but they account for half of all student loan defaults. 71% of students in for-profit colleges borrow federal loans as compared to only 49% of students in four-year public schools. The average amount borrowed by students in for-profit colleges is nearly $2,000 higher than the amount borrowed in four-year public schools.
▶ 4:48:43End quote. These figures paint a harrowing picture of what is truly at stake with this legislation. We know without question for-profit entities provide poor outcomes and pose financial risks for investment. For-profit universities stand as threats to students, specifically lowincome students, women, veterans, and students of color.
▶ 4:49:06We have seen the lasting damage to students who were victims of for-profit colleges, and the difficulty they face when trying to get some relief for the student loan debt they amassed when they were scammed by these institutions. Existing law with the loophole closed only requires that schools derive 10% 10% of their income from non-federal sources. To my GOP colleagues, is it too much to ask that these schools prove themselves in the marketplace?
▶ 4:49:36Prove they offer real value to students. Prove they aren't simply propped up by taxpayers. If the majority truly wants to eliminate wasteful spending in higher education, here is your chance. vote yes on this amend my amendment. I urge my colleagues to support my amendment and I yield back. I thank the gentleman. Does the member from California wish to preserve his point of order? I withdraw my point of order.
▶ 4:50:05The reservation is withdrawn. Are there any others who wish to speak? Yes. I recognize the gentleman from Utah, the vice chair of this committee and his five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I rise in opposition to this amendment offered by my colleague. For decades, postsecary education has operated under the system of selective accountability with flawed metrics.
▶ 4:50:29Result has been skyrock skyrocketing cost, lackluster completion rates, and unaffordable debt for n for the 95% of students who don't attend preparatory schools. Republicans always said that bad programs and institutions that offer them should be held accountable, but that is not the goal of this amendment. Instead of holding institutions accountable for the things that matter, which is student outcomes, this amendment arbitrarily targets schools based on their tax status.
▶ 4:50:56Heavy-handed regulations like the the 9010 rule also undercuts the shared goal of college ail uh affordability as it forces college to raise tuitions in order to serve in order to serve low-income disadvantaged populations. Do Democrats actually care about protecting students or do they care about protecting their favorite colleges?
▶ 4:51:18The Biden Harris administration paid lip service to accountability but instead saddle institutions with countless ownous regulations that target only certain sectors with a heavy-handed approach that does nothing to improve the outcomes for the students. Democrats should support the sector neutral accountability system proposed in this bill and uh before us rather than using the regulatory hammer to pick winners and losers. Encourage all colleges to focus on the student success.
▶ 4:51:45Students, families, and taxpayers deserve more than empty words from our our institutions. For for too long, institutions have overpromised the value of their degrees and underdelled economic success to their graduates. Instead of harmful regulations, the bill before us holds institutions accountable and focuses post pro postse secondary education where it belongs on student success. I'm opposed to this amendment to to reinstate such harmful regulations and I yield back. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 4:52:15Does anyone wish to uh have recognition recognize the gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Badamichi for five minutes. Thank you. Um Mr. Chairman, I'm going to speak in favor of the amendment. You know, for-profit colleges exist uh by definition for profit. And although some of these schools can provide a useful education experience, their success is often determined by the amount of revenue uh generated for shareholders.
▶ 4:52:39So, Congress created the 9010 rule, which requires that for-profit colleges cannot receive more than 90% of their revenue from tuition and fees from federal student aid. I don't know if I'm the only one on this committee who actually worked for an agency during rulemaking process, but I did. And you can't just make stuff up. You have to establish the basis for the rule. And that's exactly what Congress did.
▶ 4:53:04This is a valuable market-based consumer check on for-profit colleges, helping to protect students and taxpayers from high-cost, lowquality educational programs. and the Biden administration finally closed that loophole that existed where unscrupulous institutions were using it to exploit student veterans. Particularly the 9010 rule has been working as intended.
▶ 4:53:26However, uh now Republicans want to eliminate the rule altogether, removing a vital consumer protection and giving for-profit colleges free reign to continue to prey on students, especially veterans. So, I thought we were supposed to be focused on transparency and accountability. We have an entire office dedicated to government efficiency. And yet, when it comes to actually protecting taxpayers from waste, fraud, and abuse, my colleagues seem to not be interested in this case.
▶ 4:53:53So, this deregulation agenda is going to weaken the federal student aid system, put students at risk, and undermine the role of the federal government in protecting consumers and supporting highquality education. So, I do strongly encourage my colleagues to support this amendment, and I yield back the balance of my time. I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from California. All in favor say I.
▶ 4:54:23All oppose, no. No. Mr. Chair, I request record a vote. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it. An amendment is not agreed to. Now a roll call vote is ordered. Uh pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed.
▶ 4:54:46Are there any f further amendments to the amendment and nature of a substitute to the committee print? For what purpose does a gentleman from California seek to be recognized? Mr. Chair, I'd like to offer an amendment to the underlying text to The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Takano of California.
▶ 4:55:16Identifier Tano AMD_10. Mr. Kylie, do you wish to reserve a point of order? I do. Reserve a point of order. Point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman, Mr. Tano from California, uh, for five minutes in support of his amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 4:55:35Um, my amendment would simply prohibit this bill from taking effect until the Department of Education and other federal agencies certify that the policies will not result in an increase in fraud or abuse of veterans and service members. The impact of this bill would be far-reaching in scope, and we know it will give far more leeway to private loan servicesers and for-profit schools.
▶ 4:56:01We know bad actor institutions focus heavily on military connected students with their recruiting schemes. Whistleblowers at predatory colleges have reported prospective veteran students are given misinformation about how much of their tuition their GI bill will cover. Student veterans are left having to take out loans that they did not plan to when they enroll in the school.
▶ 4:56:28And for some reason, these loans are taken out for them without their knowledge or consent. The organization Veterans Education Success has received thousands of complaints from veterans who have been ins snared in these types of schemes while uh trying to further their the predatory institutions.
▶ 4:56:52Uh these predatory institutions burden veterans with thousands of dollars in unwanted loans, exhaust their GI bill benefits, and damage both their financial well-being and their transition into civilian life. My leadership on the House Veterans Affairs Committee has positioned me to speak with many of these student veterans that have been directly affected. They are hardworking individuals who are looking to continuing serving their country out of uniform.
▶ 4:57:22It is shameful shameful that we would be willingly what that we would willingly remove the protections put in place to ensure their access to a great education. If we move forward with dismantling the protections in place for student borrowers, we must know the impact that this bill will have on veterans across the country. I urge my colleagues to support my amendment and I yield back. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 4:57:48Uh does the gentleman from California insist on the point of order? I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. I now recognize the gentleman from Florida. Uh Mr. Fine uh to speak to the amendment. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I rise in in opposition to the amendment. I I start by saying that it's a particularly vile thing to abuse the trust of a veteran.
▶ 4:58:15And the fact that I oppose this amendment does not mean I support in any way, shape, or form anyone who would take advantage of the trust and the opportunity of those who who have served our country. But having worked in the field of higher education policy for the last eight years, I can tell you that no form of institution has a monopoly on necessarily mistreating veterans. In fact, the biggest scam in higher education is the notion of nonprofit but private institutions there.
▶ 4:58:44That nonprofit sort of makes people think, oh, it's the nobility of the heart. No one's making any money. We're just looking out for other people. Nonprofit simply means that the profits aren't distributed to shareholders and the entity doesn't have to pay any taxes. In fact, at many of our non our private but nonprofit institutions, you have people making huge amounts of money who engage in the exact same practices as a for-profit institution with the difference being they don't actually have to pay taxes.
▶ 4:59:15Now, I think most of these entities do the right thing. And we've seen in Florida, particularly in our healthc care fields, in nursing, when our public institutions and our nonprofit institutions could not step up and meet the needs we had in things like nursing, it was for-profit institutions that stood up. Our focus here is to make sure we bring down costs for everyone and we have accountability for everyone.
▶ 4:59:41And whether you're a public institution or a nonprofit institution or a private institution, I do not believe there is inherent good or bad in any of them. Our focus should be on irrespective of the mode that someone uses to get their education, they get the highest return at the lowest price. And I believe that our veterans are smart enough to make the right decisions for themselves.
▶ 5:00:04I don't believe that we should target for-profit institutions at the at to the benefit of nonprofit or public and that's why I'll oppose this amendment and I continue to support the bill. I thank the gentleman. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from California. All in favor say I. All oppose. No. No.
▶ 5:00:31In the opinion of the chair, the eyes are the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Uh I ask for a recorded vote, sir. A roll call vote is ordered. Uh pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a substitute to the committee print? Does the gentle lady from Pennsylvania? Yes, Mr.
▶ 5:01:02Chair. I move to strike the last word. Oh, no. Thank you. I would like to offer an amendment to the underlying text Lee amendment one. The clerk will report the Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Lee of Pennsylvania identifier Lee_MDDF_00001. Mr. Owen, uh, do you wish to reserve a point of order? I reserve a point of order. Point of order is reserved.
▶ 5:01:33I now recognize the gentle lady from Pennsylvania uh for five minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, my amendment would ensure that this legislation will not reduce access to abortion services for college students. This protection is more important now than ever before as women's rights in the Constitution are under an all-out assault from Republicans and the Trump administration.
▶ 5:01:57I would like to remind my colleagues of the words of Donald Trump himself when he was asked whether uh a woman should be criminally prosecuted for having an abortion. He said, and I quote, "There has to be some form of punishment." In other words, the president of the United States believes that women should face criminal prosecution for simply receiving health care that could save their life. In the years since he made this chilling statement, Trump and Republicans have taken advant devastating steps to turn this once unthinkable nightmare into a reality.
▶ 5:02:27In 2022, thanks to three Trumpapp appointed justices in a Republican supermajority, the Supreme Court handed down a radical decision in DOS vers Jackson Women's Health Organization that took away women's constitutional right to choose. States controlled by Republicans such as Texas and Florida have imposed draconian restrictions on abortion and reproduction reproductive health, excuse me, since then.
▶ 5:02:51College students who are especially likely to need access to reproductive health services are among the most likely to be harmed. These anti-abortion efforts have disproportionately harm students whose access to services and information are affected by geographical barriers unique to their institutions.
▶ 5:03:09For example, approximately 80% of H.B.CU CU students uh are located in states that have passed restrictions or bans on abortion care, push services uh further out of reach for hundreds of thousands of students. That's why I'm offering this amendment which would ensure that this legislation will not result in reduced access to abortion services and I urge my colleagues to support my amendment. I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. I now recognize the gentleman from Missouri for his five minutes.
▶ 5:03:40Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I stand opposed to this amendment. For pregnant students, the path through college is already a complex one that can be compounded by the responsibilities of motherhood. The goal with any decision during such a deeply personal and sensitive time should be to maximize the pregnant mother's educational journey while minimizing harm done to her child's future. Abortion is not healthcare.
▶ 5:04:08It is the role of universities to foster an environment of support and understanding where pregnant students feel safe seeking guidance and assistance. But too often counselors fail to provide pregnant students with a complete picture of all the resources available to them. This amendment would encourage universities to withhold resources and information from pregnant students about carrying a baby to term. I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 5:04:38Thank the gentleman. Is there further debate on the amendment? I recognize the gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Bonabichi, for her five minutes. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to speak in favor of the amendment, but I also want to push back on the notion made by people who can't get pregnant, that abortion is not healthcare. Uh, it is healthcare. Uh, sometimes people get pregnant, sometimes even with a wanted pregnancy, and the pregnancy isn't viable. And what they do is they get what some people might call an abortion.
▶ 5:05:07it is healthcare and so to deny that right uh for people to make their own reproductive health care decisions is wrong. Uh and I just want to emphasize that um and uh support Miss Lee's amendment and a yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from uh Pennsylvania. All in favor say I. I. I.
▶ 5:05:36All oppose say no. No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chair, I request a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of substitute to the committee print? Mr. Chair, I would like to offer an amendment to the underlying text Lee amendment uh 002. The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 5:06:06Amendment to the amendment in the nature of the substitute to committee print offered by Miss Lee of Pennsylvania Lee_am DDDF_00002. Mr. Owen, do you reserve a point of order? Yes, like to reserve point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentle lady from Pennsylvania for 5 minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 5:06:29My amendment would ensure that this legislation cannot be construed as allowing college students reproductive health information to be shared with anyone who works for the so-called Department of Government Efficiency or Doge. Over the last few months, there has been a title wave of disturbing reports that Elon Musk and his shadowy network of operatives in Doge have been accessing Americans private data.
▶ 5:06:52They've reportedly been ignoring laws and protocols governing recordkeeping and information security while storing sensitive information on private servers that are vulnerable to foreign actors. These reports are deeply chilling and the evidence suggests that Doge is building a master database compiling extensive personal information on every American. This includes bank account numbers, tax returns, social security numbers, and in many cases personal health information such as medical records.
▶ 5:07:19College students may be uh incredibly vulnerable to this unlawful and disturbing invasion of privacy. Data potentially compromised by Doge could include incredibly sensitive information regarding sexually transmitted infections, abortion, contraception use, pregnancy status, and many, many life-saving health care services. Elon Musk and his cronies have no legitimate reason to access any of this information.
▶ 5:07:47and my amendment would simply ensure that this information will never get into the hands of Doge. Um, I urge my colleagues to support and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Mr. Owen, do you wish to reserve your point of order? I withdraw my point of order. Reservation is withdrawn. Are there any others who seek recognition on this amendment? Seeing none, I recognize myself for five minutes.
▶ 5:08:16to oppose this amendment. I appreciate my colleagues interest in protecting student health data and privacy. I share this concern and there are already existing laws protect that privacy. The wording of this amendment could risk hampering inter agency coordination and provide no additional clear privacy protections beyond current law. This amendment also has no budgetary effect for the reconciliation process.
▶ 5:08:44I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment and support the underlying bill. I yield back. Is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Pennsylvania. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. uh chair, I request record a vote of the roll call vote. A roll call vote is ordered.
▶ 5:09:14Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in nature of a substitute to committee print? Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk. Lee AMD4. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print. Offered by Miss Lee of Pennsylvania, identifier Lee AMD_04. Mr. Owen, do do you wish to reserve a point of order? A point of order is reserved.
▶ 5:09:43I now recognize the gentle lady from Pennsylvania for five minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This bill proposes unreasonable loan limits, going so far as to cap loans based on program of study. The elimination of the plus program in conjunction with low direct loan limits and no additional aid creates a loan structure that will inevitably harm lowincome students and students of color the most.
▶ 5:10:08And that's remarkable because we have recognized the need and and more than the need that we deserve a more diverse workforce in precisely the fields that will be most deeply impacted by loan limitations. Lawyers, doctors, engineers. Uh we recognize that these loan programs were intended to to address barriers of access for students who come from lowincome backgrounds from black and brown or poor communities.
▶ 5:10:36uh students who are non-traditional or students uh who are first generational college students. All students who already bear the brunt of student loan debt, but also recognize that without that there would be no access for them to be able to uh pursue advanced degrees or undergraduate degrees in the first place. We know that while this is not a perfect system, there is no other system in place for students like me for instance uh who was able to go to law school because of student loan programs and without limitations.
▶ 5:11:06Capping student loan limits at levels that fall short of typical college costs will force students to abandon their education entirely or take on riskier and more expensive private loans. And we know that the reason why these students will be pushed to private loans is because there are less protections. They're higher interest rates. These loans are less flexible.
▶ 5:11:27For instance, if a student has uh suffered some sort of medical setback or or work or career setback and and need to have uh some sort of relief because they no longer have the income, a bank does not care uh if that student is not able to pay because they don't have a job at this moment.
▶ 5:11:43We recognize that there are uh limitations or or stricter uh requirements for credit scores of which very few 18-year-olds, for instance, from any of these backgrounds would be likely to have if they even have one that would be sufficient to allow them to access these expensive private loans. My amendment removes all loan limits to ensure that already marginalized borrow borrowers are not forced into taking private loans once they reach an arbitrary limit well below what the cost of education actually requires.
▶ 5:12:11Uh, I urge my colleagues to support my amendment and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Uh, does the gentleman from Utah insist on a point of The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on this amendment? If not, I recognize myself. I stand opposed this amendment.
▶ 5:12:38Uh opponents have argued that the loan limit reforms in this bill will restrict access to higher education and will cause students and families to take out more costly private loans. What students really need access to are degrees with strong outcomes at an affordable cost. Access to large amounts of debt in return for poor economic outcomes is not true access. Our post-secary system is unsustainable and in desperate need of reform.
▶ 5:13:09The cost of college has dramatically increased over the past 30 years despite hundreds of billions in taxpayers funds. Graduation uh student debt uh fueled by a complete lack of student loan caps plays a large part in this crisis. A small percentage of students own a disproportionate amount of graduate debt.
▶ 5:13:31This combination is uncapped lending and uncapped forgiveness, which is bad for both students and for the taxpayer. Taxpayers are slated to lose $130 billion alone on graduate student loans in the next 10 years. All while student debt is at a $1.6 trillion. The current system of loan limits is convoluted and can be confusing to the borrower.
▶ 5:14:01Our bill has simple reforms for both undergraduate and graduate students with clear annual aggregate and lifetime limits. The new aggregate total borrowing caps are simple. $50,000 for undergraduates and $100,000 and $150,000 for graduate and professional students, respectively.
▶ 5:14:23All students will have a lifetime limit of $200,000, a total cap of $50,000 on predatory parent plus loans combined with a requirement for students to borrow the maximum amount they are permitted to borrow under the law will ensure low-income parents who do not get the benefits of a degree are not caught in debt traps.
▶ 5:14:50The annual limits are set at the median cost of each program. This will provide downward pre pressure on program cost, ensuring students do not have to keep borrowing to keep up with ever rising costs. Analysis from the Urban Institute found that for a vast majority of undergraduate borrowers, the new aggregate and annual limits proposed under the bill will benefit relative to the current system.
▶ 5:15:17For graduate students, caps will stop institutions from being able to utilize graduate programs for revenue generation with exorbitant tuition. Our graduate loan limits are only estimated to affect 20% of current graduate borrowers. This also assumes that graduate program prices do not go down, allowing students to achieve the same degree at lower tuition cost.
▶ 5:15:43Graduate students in high return fields such as medicine would be able to access private loans at reasonable inter interest rates as the private market sees the strong rate of return of those degrees. Graduate programs that give low rates of return should not be saddling saddling students with debt that institutions know the students would not be able to pay back. Limits would force institutions to lower costs.
▶ 5:16:12Our current broken system encourages students to accept more and more debt without ever addressing college costs. Democrats would rather bury students and debt than in debt and and make their colleagues than make their colleagues angry. We want to address the issue of college costs and lack of accountability across the board to provide better outcomes and lower debt for all students. The time is now to support these key reforms.
▶ 5:16:43I urge support for the bill and opposition to the amendment. Are there any other members that wish to debate on this amendment? Mr. Chair, I recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina. Yeah, I I'd like to yield my time to Miss Lee. Thank you um to the gentle lady from North Carolina and thank you, Mr. Chair, for your remarks.
▶ 5:17:06I I I don't and I'm sorry but I as as somebody I'm not just a Democrat and I want to start with that right because I sit here as a member of Congress uh a millennial one of the younger members of Congress of the generation that came here with the largest burden of student loan debt in history. I would probably if I had to guess there probably isn't a member of Congress who was who was more appropriately able to talk about student loan debt than me here. And yet you're talking and often times these bills are talking over people like me.
▶ 5:17:34The reality is is that so much that's in uh this entire reconciliation bill targets me specifically, not me, the congressperson, me, the first generation black student who came from a workingclass single black mother who could not afford otherwise to send her child to school. She had a child who had aspirations not to be a congressperson at the time, but a but aspirations to get a a higher education, to be able to break cycles of inequality that we had been thrust into in communities just like mine.
▶ 5:18:02but for PEL grants, but for the ability to take on loans. And and I will be the first to to admit, I would not have liked to have taken on loans. Right? We would love to see college education more affordable, more accessible. We look at a country that is the wealthiest nation on earth, yet makes the lowest amount of investments into public education for its citizenry. Other nations on earth have been able to figure this out where we have not just free college education, free education from prek to college and other first world as we call them developed nations.
▶ 5:18:33We also have healthcare. What we're seeing here in this bill and in so many others of our practices or a lack of any sort of investment into workingclass people, which means a lack of investment into the future of Americans. When we think about who shoulders the biggest burden in loan debt, it is black women. Black women shoulder the largest burdens into student loan debt. But if you asked us if we would still like to be doctors or engineers or lawyers or professionals, you would hear us say resoundingly yes.
▶ 5:18:59If we would still like the opportunity to learn for the sake of being able to learn for knowledge sake, which is an important and a completely reasonable reason to want to go to college, you would hear us say yes. Still, none of the provisions in this bill have any incentives for colleges to lower the costs of admissions. What we are doing instead is incentivizing colleges to take fewer lowincome students. With these provisions in place throughout this bill, I would not be here. I would not be a congressperson.
▶ 5:19:28I would not have been a state rep before that. I would not be a black woman from a first generation uh first generation college student from a low-income uh community in the M Valley who went to law school or who went to Penn State and graduated. None of that would have been a reality to me. Nothing in this bill, nothing that you all are suggesting would have created more opportunities for me. So even when we say that only 20% of people would be impacted, I would be of that 20%. How many of your colleagues would be of that 20%.
▶ 5:19:55How many of your doctors or your nurses or your teachers would be in that 20%. I would argue that it is more than you would think. We deserve to be in career fields that we have passions in or talents for. But the reality is is that we will not have those opportunities if we move forward with this piece of legislation. We will not have these opportunities. Black students, brown students, first generation college students, first generation Americans will not have access to college. We cannot simply say that we will take away the opportunities for students to access loans.
▶ 5:20:24Not replace it with anything else, not replace it with lower uh college education, not replace it with lower interest rates, not make the system better and still say that you will somehow figure it out. We know the outcome here. Black students, brown students, poor students will not be left to figure it out. Instead, elite students, students who come from the 1% will continue to be able to access education. They will continue to have access uh to career fields uh that we mention here. Uh and the gap, the achievement gap, the racial gap will just continue to increase because these are not being addressed here.
▶ 5:20:54I yield I think I thank the general and I say this sincerely. I think you'd have found a way anyway. Conjecture. I I it's conjecture, but knowing you as little as I do, but as much as I do, I think you found a way. But I our purpose is to make it easier for people coming after you to to to have a better opportunity and we'll work at it. But thank you, Adam. I'm sorry. Mr.
▶ 5:21:24Chair, forgive me. Forgive me. Uh it's all right. I had a minute. Senator Adams, I had a minute. I just wanted to thank the general lady for her comments and I I certainly agree 100%. It's like earlier uh we've got to somehow make some provisions uh for first generation students, students, black and brown students, students who have to have uh financial aid. I was one of those.
▶ 5:21:52And and I just think it's important and when I look at what the uh the the executive order for HB.CU DCU. Uh well, we've got to make sure that they can afford to go. We've got to make sure that that the the loans and and and all the resources, PEL grants, etc. are available to them. So, I just thank gentle lady for time and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. It was a passion of your colleague that got me to overstep my responsibilities. So, I ask for forgiveness.
▶ 5:22:19Now, I recognize a gentleman from Florida, Mr. Fine, for five minutes. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. interesting um conversation. I I perhaps I look at it a little bit differently. Um perhaps what helps what hurts poor students and students of color is the fact that they have $1.6 trillion of student loan debt. I mean, we ha we hear that this is a crisis, an existential crisis that has to be dealt with. Joe Biden told us we needed to forgive all of the debt.
▶ 5:22:47So, the system that got us into that situation, now we want to do something about it. And we're told that that is a problem. The reason the millennial generation has the largest debt in history is because tuition has gone up so fast. And as I talked about earlier, when you give loans and open-ended ways, education prices will rise in order to figure that out. So, I live in a state that has figured this out.
▶ 5:23:13Actually, in the state of Florida, if you do pretty well in school and you get a decent test score, no matter where your state, you get a free education at any one of our 12 state institutions or our 21 state 28 state colleges, you can figure this out and you can do it. You can do it in a way where people get no student loans at all. I think the solution to the problem is not to double down on the status quo and giving people more debt, which creates more problems, which saddles around their neck forever.
▶ 5:23:40The better solution is to do what we propose to do in this bill, which is to cap the debt, which tells the universities what they can charge. I have news for you. They want to maximize their enrollment. And in order to do that, they will then have to cut their prices in order to provide those degrees to those people. We have a choice. We can make the problem worse. The 1.6 trillion can become 3.2 trillion, or we can come up with a path to make it go away.
▶ 5:24:06This bill takes those steps to reign in that debt to make sure those kids who can afford it the least have the most opportunity to benefit. I think this is the right way to go about solving the problem for that exact audience of people and that's why I oppose the amendment and I'll continue to support the bill. I thank the gentleman. I recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 5:24:33Just very briefly, the reason this generation has so much debt is because the Pell Grant doesn't cover as much as it used to. Several decades ago covered 80% of the cost of going to a state college with a little summer job and part-time during the school year. You could work your way through college with no debt. Now it covers 30% of about 30% of the cost of going to the state college. You can work 40 hours a week and still can't come out without a crushing debt.
▶ 5:25:03That's not the student's fault. I yield back. I thank the gentleman. Is there further debate on amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Pennsylvania. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Uh, I request to record a vote.
▶ 5:25:32A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a substitute uh to the committee print? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have an amendment at the desk. Lee PA AMD27. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Lee of Pennsylvania identifier Lee PA_027.
▶ 5:26:02Mr. Owens, do you reserve a point of order? I reserve a point of order. A point of order is reserved. I now recognize gentle lady from Pennsylvania for 5 minutes uh in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that from the last conversation that we were having, this is the perfect segue. Um the PEL grant provides need-based federal financial aid for more than 30% of American college students. Um Mr.
▶ 5:26:27Scott of Virginia talked very briefly about the amount of of of of our college education that PEL grants once covered uh up to 80%. Uh but when we think about who uh PEL grants cover, we're talking about lowincome students, black and brown students, those first generation students who otherwise could not access a college education. And as I uh mentioned in the in the last remarks, it covers students me.
▶ 5:26:53In January, the Congressional Budget Office projected a $2.7 billion budget shortfall for Pale in the next fiscal year. By 2026, the CBO projects that PEL will be short $10 billion. That means that students who rely on PEL grants to fill the gap in their college education would have to drop out or they wouldn't come in the first place.
▶ 5:27:17solidifying the racial wealth gaps we have among other issues that happen when students are not able to access higher education because Congress appropriates discretionary funds for the program based on projections of how much it will cost in the upcoming year. There is an inevitable annual mismatch between how much the program costs and how much funding is actually available. This creates significant complications for policymakers and ongoing risk for students who rely on the grants.
▶ 5:27:46The only way to fully eliminate this annual uncertainty is to shift the PAL program to be funded entirely on the mandatory side of the budget. This shift would eliminate the need for annual appropriations and provide for automatic adjustments and program funding based on changes in student participation. My Republican colleagues have included funding in this bill to temporarily shore up PEL, but they didn't include enough to permanently solve the problem.
▶ 5:28:11If my colleagues are actually interested in shoring up PAL like they claim uh to be, then the solution is actually pretty simple. They can make PAL funding fully mandatory. It would go a long way to talk about uh the issues that we have and students having to take out an incredible amount of student loan that will crush them or or stands to crush them for the rest of their career.
▶ 5:28:32It would it would go a really long way in ensuring more students like me and some of our newer colleagues who are just now breaking into public service will be able to seek out secondary education. Uh and it would ensure that we take at least one step into to figuring out this convoluted system that we have in American education that locks so many people out of colleges. Uh so uh of course I encourage my colleagues to support and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady.
▶ 5:29:02Does the member from Utah wish to I withdraw my point of order. The reservation is withdrawn. Are there any any others who seek recognition on this amendment? Seeing none, I I recognize myself for my five minutes. I stand opposed to this amendment. The PEL shortfall is a result of House Democrats refusing to address the fiscal fiscal sustainability of the program.
▶ 5:29:30As was mentioned in this bill, we are closing that shortfall. As we mentioned previously in this markup, House Democrats continually make empty promises about the PEL program without addressing outcomes for PEL students or the fiscal realities about the program. Fortunately, reforms in this bill ensure the PEL grant contributes to strong student outcomes, goes towards students in need, and remains fiscally sustainable.
▶ 5:30:00Making the PEL program fully mandatory does nothing to ensure PEL dollars are going toward families truly in need and resulting in strong outcomes. It simply adds PEL spending into an increasingly large mandatory pool of funds which we'll have no control over which as a broad rule could make it more difficult for our budget to be balanced in the future and that's an amazing thought.
▶ 5:30:30I stand opposed to this amendment and urge support for the bill. Is there further debate on the If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Pennsylvania. All in favor say I. All oppose, no. No. In the opinion of the chair. The nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered.
▶ 5:30:57Uh, pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any other further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print? Yes, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer an amendment to the underlying text Lee PA AMD28. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Lee of Pennsylvania, identifier Lee PA_028. Mr.
▶ 5:31:25Owens, do you reserve a point of order? Point of order is reserved. And now recognize the gentle lady from Pennsylvania for five minutes in support of her amendment. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um there's been of course a lot of talk about merit-based emissions uh in the public consciousness uh of late.
▶ 5:31:43Uh we of course recognize the narratives uh that played heavily in the erosion of affirmative action uh policies uh at American universities largely of course impacting black students um who we know uh are rarely given the benefit of a merit when we talk about our admissions to colleges.
▶ 5:32:04But what we actually know is that legacy admissions uh are quite insidious in our college institutions and were not impacted uh by uh the erosion or or or negating of affirmative action policies. That's why I'm offering this amendment that would prohibit colleges and universities from considering legacy or donor admissions. Um we know that they run counter to any alleged goal of having a truly merit-based admissions uh policy.
▶ 5:32:32I I I would like to say that nearly onethird of all selective four-year institutions in the United States considered legacy status for firsttime students enrolling in fall of 2022. These policies were especially prevalent at selective private nonprofit four-year institutions, 42% of which considered legacy status.
▶ 5:32:54And what we know about legacy admissions and that they are inequitable, they are unfair, and they are rooted in racist traditions that have no place in our society. Supporting this amendment would affirm Republicans commitment that they do not intend for this bill to exacerbate inequalities. I introduced the bipartisan fair college admissions for students act because working to level the playing field for students of all lived backgrounds not just the rich and the well-connected is not a partisan issue.
▶ 5:33:24It's common sense. We all should uh reasonably believe that students who perform well, students who work hard, students who have an appetite and aspirations for higher education and to to enter career fields that come for them should have the same access to those sorts of opportunities as students who are born rich. Students who are born with the right father.
▶ 5:33:46Students whose dad or uncle or cousin gives money to universities should not have greater access to those universities than students who worked hard for 12 to 13 years to make it where they are and just because they did not come from wealthy backgrounds should not be a limitation. That's why I urge my colleagues to support my amendment and I yel back. I thank the gentle lady. Uh does uh the gentleman from Utah wish to withdraw his point of order? Um, I do. Yes.
▶ 5:34:16A point of order. The reservation is is Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize the gentleman from Utah for his five minutes. Thank you. Uh, I oppose this amendment even though I support the attempt to equalize um the college admissions. House representatives have long argued argued that uh colleges should be judging applicants based on individual merit and accomplishments rather than other factors.
▶ 5:34:43I'm glad the Supreme Court and students for a fair admission ruled that unconstitutional discrimination based on race has no place in our society. Legacy and donor admission policies do provide an une an uneven playing field for student applications and it's important it's important uh national discussion has been going off even before the students for fair mission.
▶ 5:35:04While extremely important, it's also crucial for us in Congress to understand what decisions should be made at the federal level and which should be uh which would be uh congressional overreach. The HA has never mandated or prohibited admission policy practices. Beside stopping unconstit unconstitutional practice like race-based emission or dangers to national security, admissions are a large United federal role. More than 100 colleges have ended legacy admissions since 2015.
▶ 5:35:33And given this trend, legislation may be uh may not be necessary. States can dictate the their public universities admission criteria and may be may be the more appropriate level of government to regulate uh suspicion policies. I encourage future discussions on this topic at institutions and believe that all students should be viewed by their individual merit. However, I must oppose this amendment. Thank you and I yield back. All right. I don't want to talk too much.
▶ 5:36:03I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition to speak on the on the If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Pennsylvania. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nose have it and the amendment is not agreed to. I request a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed.
▶ 5:36:31Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of the substitute to the committee print? Mr. Chairman, my last I would like to offer an amendment to the underlying text Lee PAMD 26. The clerk will report the amendment. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Miss Lee of Pennsylvania identifier Lee PA_026. Mr. Owen, do you wish to reserve a point of order? A point of order is reserved.
▶ 5:37:00I now recognize the gentle lady from Pennsylvania for five minutes in support of her amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh the bill establishes a so-called risk sharing agreement in which colleges and universities must compensate the government for a portion of unpaid interest in principle on loans from their students.
▶ 5:37:16This provision will encourage colleges and universities to end programs of study like teaching, social work, and other public service programs where students future wages may not keep pace with draconian law uh loan repayment policies. These provisions could destroy community colleges and H.B.CU that will be forced to recoup lost revenue by raising tuition or reducing educational quality.
▶ 5:37:40If this bill is not intended to punish colleges and universities for enrolling students from low-income backgrounds, then my Republican colleagues should welcome my amendment. My amendment exempts institutions of higher education from the risk sharing agreement if over 20% of the student body is pale eligible. This bill, as it's currently written, would disincentivize colleges and universities from enrolling students from lowincome backgrounds.
▶ 5:38:04My amendment would be a step towards correcting that by incentivizing colleges and universities to enroll students from lowincome backgrounds. Um, as we discussed in the previous amendments, there is a a fear that some of the provisions that claim to try to fix some of our more systemic and deeprooted institutional problems with education are actually exacerbating them. There is no evidence that colleges would take the bait on this one and just simply um give lower loans or or or lower tuition.
▶ 5:38:34What we know is is in all of these instances there are more students who can afford to go to college who will continue to have those opportunities and students who cannot afford to go to college will be discarded. We have seen it uh over and over again and we are afraid uh that this will not simply get at it. Though I do agree that we do need to take steps to make colleges more affordable for students. Tuition, as we've talked about, is out of control. Um we would love to see um lower tuition.
▶ 5:39:02Would love to work with our Republican colleagues on that and look forward to that opportunity. Though I fear that this one will not do that. Um I encourage my uh colleagues to support this amendment and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Mr. Owen, do you reserve a point of Reservation is withdrawn. I now recognize a gentleman from Florida, Mr. Fine, for his five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I rise in opposition to the amendment. Um I think the argument to oppose it was made in the argument for it.
▶ 5:39:32The argument was said that if schools have to pay back or they're responsible potentially for the PEL loan, they might cut programs where students aren't able to pay back the loans. Now, just think about that for a minute. If you take on a loan that when you get a job as a result of getting that loan, you're unable to pay it back, I think there's a far more fundamental issue.
▶ 5:39:57It means the cost of that program is far in excess of the value that one will get in order to receive it. The reason for that again is because education and tuition has been allowed to rise unrestricted because where there is federal money, the prices will rise to absorb all of that. But beyond that, I think the notion that this protects certain institutions or certain kinds of students, this 20% is some sort of magical um indicator.
▶ 5:40:26Look at Colombia, more than 20% of the students are eligible for PEL grants. And we can see all sorts of problems at that institution over the last number of years. So I I don't think there's anything particular in this solution that would actually address that problem. I think the key to make education accessible to lower income for students of color, for the people who actually need the income the most, the ones who want to use education to take them from where they are to where they want to be.
▶ 5:40:54The best way for us to do that is not to loan them more money, but to reduce the cost so that they don't need the loans. That's what this bill does over and over and over again. This would continue to exacerbate the problem that exists today. It's why I oppose the amendment and why I continue to support the bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the gentleman. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? I recognize Representative Scott, ranking member, for his five minutes.
▶ 5:41:23Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The calculation of the number of students in your institution were appel eligible is really the measure of how your institution is giving opportunity to those who most need it. And by giving an advantage to those institutions that are giving the most opportunity, I think that's certainly appropriate.
▶ 5:41:48It also um suggests it if you're having programs say in a law school, are you having programs for people going into public service like prosecutors and public defenders or everybody going into mergers and acquisitions on Wall Street, you can make a lot more money, more likely to pay off your student debt if you go into those.
▶ 5:42:13We don't want to discourage people to go into those kinds of occupations that are more rewarding and frankly more needed. So I would hope that we would adopt the amendment so that those institutions and those people going into those kinds of um professions uh can be accommodated. I thank the gentleman. Is there further debate on the amendment?
▶ 5:42:40If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentle lady from Pennsylvania. All in favor say I. All oppose, no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chair, I request a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of the substitute to the print?
▶ 5:43:11The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Casar, do you have an amendment to offer? Thank you, chairman. I have an amendment at the desk. Amendment number nine. The clerk will report the Amendment to the amendment and the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Casar of Texas identifier Casar_amd_09. Um, Mr. Owens, do you reserve a point of order? I reserve a point of order. Point of order is reserved.
▶ 5:43:39I now recognize a gentleman from Texas for five minutes in support of his amendment. In February, we learned that Doge staffers gained access to sensitive education and labor department data, including the personal information for millions of students and millions of workers, including sensitive information about investigations into companies like Elon Musk's companies.
▶ 5:44:08This information also included things like social security numbers, home addresses, income and assets, citizenship status, and disability status for workers and students alike. Without proper protections, our constituents are at risk of having their data leaked or given to bad actors. We cannot allow the richest man on earth or the teenagers that he hired to carry out his plans to have access to the sensitive information of millions of Americans.
▶ 5:44:38And they don't need this data for efficiency because we found of course that Doge has found virtually no government waste. We should be looking into the actual corporate abuse that funds government waste, but they're looking into your social security numbers. They're looking into your disability status. In fact, one of these Doge employees that has had access to sensitive information has helped cyber crime groups in the past.
▶ 5:45:05And after Doge access sensitive data at the NLRB, a whistleblower dis a whistleblower disclosed that IP addresses in Russia also tried to access the NLRB's data. Those Doge employees, according to the whistleblower, then tried to cover up their tracks after they broke into the NLRB's data.
▶ 5:45:26So, I ask my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, congressional Republicans, to vote with their constituents who don't want their private data being accessed by these folks that have no business having access to your personal sensitive information.
▶ 5:45:43So, I ask that my colleagues reverse course, tell Musk to have his hands off of our private government information, and support my amendment that prevents Doge employees from accessing sensitive higher education information. I thank the gentleman. Uh, Mr. Owens, do you insist on the point of order? Point of order. Uh, the reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?
▶ 5:46:09I recognize uh Representative Ander from Missouri for his five minutes. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I oppose this amendment. I appreciate my colleagues interest in protecting student data and privacy. I share the concern, but there are already existing laws to protect that privacy. The wording of this amendment would risk hampering inter agency coordination and provide no additional privacy protections for our students beyond current law.
▶ 5:46:38This amendment also has no budgetary effect, so it is a purely policy measure. I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment and I support the underlying bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. I thank the gentleman. Uh, is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Texas. All in favor say I. I. All oppose, no. No.
▶ 5:47:08In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a substitute to the committee print? I recognize the gentleman from Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk. Amendment number one. Clerk will designate the amendment.
▶ 5:47:35Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print authored by Mr. Casar of Texas identifier Casar_am DDDs_00001. Mr. Owen, do you reserve a point of order? A point of order is reserved.
▶ 5:47:52And now recognize the gentleman from Texas for five minutes in support of his My amendment would ensure that Elon Musk needs to follow the law and leave the federal government within 130 days of his mandate beginning.
▶ 5:48:12100 days ago, Trump deputized Musk, the richest man on earth, and his socalled Department of Government efficiency to start dismantling parts of our federal government. Under the guise of rooting out waste, Musk and his minions have wre havoc by recklessly cancelling grants, firing thousands of public servants, including more veterans than at any point in American history, shutting down entire programs that support American students and also protect
▶ 5:48:42people from corporate abuses. But most concerning is that you have a guy in Elon Musk running cabinet meetings, running things at the White House while his companies have received at least $ 38 billion in taxpayer money. And since he was installed basically at the head of our government, Musk's companies are getting billions more in new federal contracts.
▶ 5:49:08While they seemingly defeat dozens of other American companies for federal government work, the law stipulates that Mr. Musk must leave after 130 days. So, he's got 30 days left as a special government employee. And if he does not, then I think he is violating the law every single day after he keeps coming in, if he continues to collect federal government contracts. So if Mr.
▶ 5:49:36Musk insists on staying, then he under the law either one has to divest from his companies like Tesla and SpaceX and or number two, we should not continue to hand out billions of dollars in federal government contracts to his companies. Elon Musk should not be able to steer taxpayer money to his companies.
▶ 5:49:58At the same time that he guts government programs, at the same time that we say we don't have enough money to support low-income students, at the same time that we're taking an axe to things like Medicaid, the idea that Elon Musk continues to get $8 million a day from this Congress and from this White House is absurd. And so my amendment makes it very clear that when this bill goes into effect, Elon Musk should already be out of the government.
▶ 5:50:26His 130 days will have been up. And that if he's not out, then I think we could find some savings, Mr. Chairman, by no longer handing out billions of dollars in contracts to a man that has an enormous conflict of interest. Dare I say the biggest conflict of interest anybody's ever seen in American history. So, I hope that my colleagues will vote with us, vote for this anti-corruption amendment, and if Mr.
▶ 5:50:53Musk follows the law and leaves the government in 30 days, I don't think anybody has anything to worry about here on the other side of the aisle. I'll actually yield back um or is there a way, chairman, for me to reserve some of my time to respond if there are um or any questions about the amendment? You can you can work it out with somebody else. I'm I I'm I'm happy to just uh yield time in case anybody has any questions on this issue. They're going to have their opportunity. So, okay, go ahead.
▶ 5:51:20I'll I'll I'll look forward to answering any of your questions. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? I will. So, I agree with you. Let me just first of all thank you for that. Must needs to go. Should have been gone. Uh, can we make this less than 120 days? But so how much do you think we'd save getting him out of here? Elon Musk currently receives about $8 million a day from the federal government.
▶ 5:51:49He is now going after the not hundreds of billions, but potentially up to trillion dollar contract for the so-called Golden Dome. Uh, the Space Force just gave him more money in contracts. So, let me tell you, uh, instead of cutting people's Medicaid, instead of cutting seniors $65 a day they get from Social Security, I think Elon Musk could do with a little bit less of our money. Wow. I I I that's incredible.
▶ 5:52:16Um, I'm I'm glad you've got all those numbers and I I certainly believe that he if if he's out of here in those 120 days, he'll still have the data that he's collected. Isn't that correct? And that's why we had the amendment earlier that my colleagues could vote for um which got Democratic support. We just need a little bit of Republican support to say that Mr. Musk cannot continue to access the sensitive data that this committee is supposed to protect. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. I yield back.
▶ 5:52:46The gentleman yields. Does the uh member from Utah? I I withdraw my point of order. Reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? If not, I take my five minutes. I stand opposed to this amendment. This amendment has nothing to do with reducing the budget or lowering college costs for individuals as this reconciliation process is required to do.
▶ 5:53:16The wording of this amendment could risk hampering inter agency coordination with employees already given a specific designation in the US code. I also want to point out that this amendment would not have a budgetary effect, thus making it not relevant to the current topic of reconciliation. I stand, as you might guess, opposed to this amendment and urge support of the underlying bill. Does anyone else seek recognition?
▶ 5:53:51I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, Mr. Scott, for his five minutes. And I yield such time as you may consume to the gentleman from Texas. Thank you. And Mr. Chairman, I just respectfully disagree. Uh because ultimately, if uh under my amendment, we would cancel some of the contracts to Mr.
▶ 5:54:12Musk if he continues to violate the law and if he violates even further laws by staying over the 130 days that is very clearly laid out in government code as it relates to special government employees. And so I think there are millions if not billions of dollars in savings that we could redirect to workers and to students and to institutions of higher learning if we hold Mr. Musk accountable and have him stop milking the federal government for more and more money while he is in a position of enormous power.
▶ 5:54:42Thank you so much. I yel back. Yield back. I thank the gentleman. Uh is there further debate on the amendment? If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Texas. All in favor say I. All oppose? No. No. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed.
▶ 5:55:12Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of the substitute of the committee print? For what purposes, a gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, seek to be recognized. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment to the desk designated The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 5:55:39Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to committee print offered by Mr. Scott of Virginia. Identifier Scott_DC_03. Mr. Owen, do you reserve a point of order? I reserve a point of order. Point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, Mr. Scott for 5 minutes in support of his amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 5:56:03Chairman, this amendment would prohibit any cuts to Medicaid and SNAP that result in fewer families being eligible for free school lunch. Let's be clear, if you cut SNAP and Medicaid, you will also be cutting free school lunches. And when a child resides, that's because when a child resides in a household that's eligible for that's on SNAP or Medicaid, most of the time that child would be automatically eligible for a free school meal.
▶ 5:56:30For over 75 years, school nutrition programs have been instrumental in supporting children's overall health and school readiness. Federal nutrition programs have been associated with improved educational outcomes and reduced foods insecurity, especially impactful for students from low income and food families. Studies continue to show that free school meals improve student health, lead to fewer disciplinary infractions, and increased test scores.
▶ 5:57:01When children are hungry, they lack the energy they need to learn and thrive. And over time, this hunger may prevent children from reaching their full potential at school and in life. Those are the facts. Hunger exists in every community. Yet, it is e easily hidden. According to more recent to to the more recent census data, nearly 18% of households with children under 18 struggle with food insecurity in 20 in 2023.
▶ 5:57:29So cutting federal programs that benefit so many children will be detrimental to the health of our nation's future. Though we know exactly that that's exactly what the reconciliation will ultimately do when it cuts Medicaid and SNAP. And since the benefits of nutritious school meals are so well known, we should commit to ensuring that the reconciliation bill will not directly or indirectly reduce access to school meals in any way in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy.
▶ 5:57:59So I strongly urge my colleagues to support this amendment. I thank the gentleman. Does the gentleman from Utah insist on his point of order? I withdraw my point of order. Reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? If not, I recognize myself for five minutes. I stand opposed to this amendment. We've been over this already.
▶ 5:58:27Nothing in this bill reduces funding to Medicaid, let alone WIC. I don't understand the desire to expand free school meals to those who don't need assistance. That would actually hamper assistance reaching students who actually need it. There are many categorical eligibility pathways available for families to qualify for free school meals.
▶ 5:58:52And these certification systems vary by state and local education agencies. The amendment specially um identifies Medicaid as one such certification pathway, but participation is a state decision. So this amendment is superolous and I encourage my colleagues to oppose it and I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?
▶ 5:59:24If not, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Virginia. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No. Uh, in the opinion of the chair, the nos have it. An amendment is not agreed A roll call vote is over ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed.
▶ 5:59:50Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print?
▶ 6:00:18So that's Uh there being no further amendments, pursuant to the previous order, the chair declares the committee in recess subject to the call of the chair. We expect to reconvene uh promptly 15 minutes after the last vote has been called in the 5:00 p.
▶ 6:00:46PM vote series on the House floor and I also thank my colleagues for the strong and efficient effort Um the committee stands in recess.
▶ 7:53:20just gave gave the members one minute. So Oh, I did. Well, guess we're hungry.
▶ 7:54:37The committee will reconvene and come to order following recess. Uh this afternoon, the House of Representatives voted in favor of adoption of the rule HJRES 60. In doing so, the House voted to amend the function of clause seven of rule uh 13 of the House rules.
▶ 7:55:01This clause sets House rules relative to resolutions of inquiry addressed to the head of an executive department. In accordance with these instructions of the House, consideration of HRES 344 previously noticed is no longer necessary. I'll recognize the ranking member, Representative Scott, for some comments related to that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 7:55:30Chairman, rank subcommittee ranking member Bonamichi and I were prepared to debate HR res 344 resolution of inquiry allowing Congress to ask the administration some fundamental questions about the dismantling of the of the Administration for community living, a division within the Department of Health and Human Services that administers a variety of programs that help seniors and people with disabilities live independently and with dignity.
▶ 7:55:58As I mentioned in my opening remarks, these programs have historically received great bipartisan support. Our resolution sought basic answers about how HHS intends to administer critical programs such as meals on wheels, false prevention for older adults, developmental disabilities, centers for independent living, and assisted technology programs.
▶ 7:56:21HHS has already fi h fired their hundreds of employees who have the expertise to effectively administer programs. AC ACL was established in 2012 to coordinate and streamline programs that support seniors and disabled individuals to live in their homes and communities.
▶ 7:56:43It may be uncomfortable to ask these questions, especially since a leaked draft of the president's budget proposes eliminating many of the programs that were housed within ACL, including nearly all programs authorized by the Developmental Disabilities Assistance and Bill of Rights Act and many programs under the Old Americans Act. Nonetheless, these questions need to be asked and the resolution of inquiry gives would have given us the best chance of getting answers.
▶ 7:57:12Shortly after the changes at HHS were announced, I sent a letter to the Secretary of Health and Human Services asking for a more thorough explanation of the proposed CH changes and I have received no response. I urge my colleagues to fulfill our obligation to oversee these critical programs within our jurisdiction that provide meaningful support to to disabled and older Americans who rely on these services and supports to live healthy and fulfilling lives in their communities.
▶ 7:57:43I'd like to submit for the record a letter led by the American Association of People with Disabilities that was signed by more 450 disability, Civil Rights, Aging, Mental Health, and Patient Organizations expressing dismay and concern regarding the plans to eliminate ACL and split its functions across three other agencies.
▶ 7:58:04Additionally, I'd like to like to submit a letter from the Autism Society and National Association for Councils on Developmental Disabilities strongly opposing the restructuring. While I understand we will no longer be considering this resolution, the issue will not go away. And I invite you, Mr. Chairman, to join in simply asking the question, what exactly is the plan for the administration of community living? And with that, Mr.
▶ 7:58:33Chairman, I yield Thanks, gentlemen. Without objection, the two documents will be submitted and we will continue working. We'll proceed to postpone requests for recorded votes. Um, we will now be voting on 33 amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print.
▶ 7:59:03We'll be doing that by electronic voting process and so um keep with it as as close as possible and we will move through as quickly as possible as well. The men the amendment offered by Miss Adams of North titled Adams AMD24.
▶ 7:59:32A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote I. Open the vote.
▶ 8:00:06She's out there eating. That's everybody. That's everybody.
▶ 8:00:36Hit the on button. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the Mr.
▶ 8:01:05Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now new move to the amendment offered by Representative Adams titled Adams AMD11. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote I. Would the clerk please open the vote?
▶ 8:01:55I see representative Norcross's name up there and remind you all keep him in our prayers thoughts. Thank you. Um, have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, clerk, please close the vote and announce the tally. Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted.
▶ 8:02:26We now move to the third Adams amendment. Adams AMD28 as its title. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. Uh the clerk will open the vote.
▶ 8:02:57I think in this situation over have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded. Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to Representative McBath's amendment, McBath AMD02.
▶ 8:03:26The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. Would the clerk open the vote? Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?
▶ 8:03:55Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to the second McBTH amendment. Amendment AMD 26. Chairman intends to vote no.
▶ 8:04:26Ranking member intends to vote yes. The clerk will open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Mr.
▶ 8:04:56Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to Representative Hayes amendment. Hayes AMD DAL 0002. The clerk will open the vote. The chair intends to vote. The chair intends to vote no. Thank you.
▶ 8:05:24Remember I have all members been recorded or wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs.
▶ 8:05:50The amendment is not We now move to representative Hayes second amendment Hayes AMD27. The chairman intends to vote no. Recommends to vote I. Clerk please open vote.
▶ 8:06:17Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 nays. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to Mr. Bonamichi's first amendment.
▶ 8:06:44Bonamichi AMD001. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. The clerk will open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded. Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close and the vote and announce the tally? Mr.
▶ 8:07:13Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 The amendment is not adopted. We now move to the second Bonameichi vote uh amendment. Uh Bonamichi AMD06. The chairman intends to vote no. Thank you member intends to vote yes.
▶ 8:07:34The clerk will please open the Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 nazs.
▶ 8:08:04The amendment is not adopted. We now move to the third Bonamichi amendment. Bonamichi AMD 29. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote.
▶ 8:08:32Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to Mr. Courtney's amendment. Courtney AMD14. The chairman intends to vote no.
▶ 8:09:02Ranking member to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted.
▶ 8:09:32We now move to Mr. Manion's amendment. AMD21. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. The clerk please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote?
▶ 8:10:03Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 nays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to the second manion amendment. Manion AMD CH001. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. Will the clerk please open the vote?
▶ 8:10:36Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to Mr. Tano's first amendment. Tano AMD01 as it's titled. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes.
▶ 8:11:07The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none. Will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted.
▶ 8:11:37We now move to Miss Mcbath's uh amendment. 016. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?
▶ 8:12:06Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nays. The amendment is not We now move to Mr. Scott's amendment. AMD05. The chairman intends to vote no. Right. Member intends to vote I.
▶ 8:12:36The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded or wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none. Will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nays. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to Miss Omar's amendment.
▶ 8:13:05Omar MN015. Chairman intends to vote no. Recommends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Thank you. Do any members wish to change vote?
▶ 8:13:34Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to a second Omar amendment. Omar MN016. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes.
▶ 8:13:58The clerk will open the vote, please. Have all members been recorded or wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their hearing. None. Will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs.
▶ 8:14:28The amendment is not adopted. We now move to uh the another Miss Omar amendment Omar AMD30. The chairman intends to vote no. Rank member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?
▶ 8:14:57Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now to the final Omar amendment. Omar AMDCH002. The chairman intends to vote no. Rank member intends to vote yes.
▶ 8:15:24The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to Mr. Dson's amendment.
▶ 8:15:55Donier 16. The chairman intends to vote no. Recommends to vote I. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded or wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the Mr.
▶ 8:16:23Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 ns. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to a second Scott amendment. Scott AMD 20. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?
▶ 8:16:52Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to a second uh Tano amendment. Tano AMD 03. Chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes.
▶ 8:17:19The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now now move to Mr.
▶ 8:17:47Tano's third amendment, Tano AMD10. The chairman intends to vote no. Thank you, member. Vote I. Clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally?
▶ 8:18:18Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to the first Lee. Miss Lee's amendment Lee AM 0001. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote.
▶ 8:18:48Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nays. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to the second Lee amendment Lee AM DDF 0002. The clerk will uh the chairman intends to vote no.
▶ 8:19:17Thank you member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted.
▶ 8:19:47We now move to the third Lee amendment. AMD04. Chairman intends to vote no. Thank member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?
▶ 8:20:14Do any members wish to change their Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. Uh the amendment is not adopted. We now move to uh the fourth Lee amendment Lee 20027. The chairman intends to vote no. Thank you member vote.
▶ 8:20:44I the clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted.
▶ 8:21:13We now move to the final Lee amendment Lee PA028. The chairman intends to vote no. Thank you member intends to vote I. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?
▶ 8:21:43Do any members wish to change their Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. Uh the amendment is not adopted and now we move to a final final Lee amendment. Um Lee PA026. The chairman intends to vote no.
▶ 8:22:13Ranking member intends to vote I. The clerk will open the vote. Have all members been recorded or wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted.
▶ 8:22:42We now move to the first Casar amendment. Casar AMD09. The chairman intends to vote no. Thank you member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote?
▶ 8:23:12Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. The amendment is not adopted. We now move to the second Casar amendment. Casar AMD DS 0001. The chairman intends to vote no. Ranking member intends to vote yes. The clerk will please open the vote.
▶ 8:23:42Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Okay. Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are 14 yays and 21 nazs. Second. The amendment is not adopted. Okay. Now we move to the uh Scott amendment. Scott AMD CH03.
▶ 8:24:13Chairman intends to vote no. Thank member intends to vote yes. The clerk will open the vote. Please. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr.
▶ 8:24:37Chairman, on this vote, there are 14 yays and 21 The amendment is not adopted. The question now occurs on the amendment in the nature of a substitute to the committee print. All in favor say I. I. All opposed? No. No.
▶ 8:25:08In the opinion of the chair, the eyes have it and the amendment in the nature of a substitute is agreed to. I move the committee do now transmit the recommendations of this committee and all appropriate accompanying material including minority additional supplemental or desending views to the House committee
▶ 8:25:38on the budget in order to comply with the reconciliation directive included in section 2001 of the concurrent current resolution of the budget for fiscal year 2025 Hon 14 and consistent with section 310 of the Congressional Budget and Empoundment Control Act of 1974. The question now occurs on the chair's motion. All in favor say I. I. All oppose? No. No.
▶ 8:26:09In the opinion of the chair, the eyes have it and the motion is agreed to. A recorded vote is requested. A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. The chairman intends to vote I. Ranking member intends to vote no. The clerk will please open the vote.
▶ 8:26:39Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally? Mr. Chairman, on this vote, there are 21 yays and 14 nazs. The eyes have it and the motion is agreed to. The committee print as amended and accompanying materials shall be transmitted. the committee on the budget.
▶ 8:27:05The chair notes for the record that a quorum is present and also gives great appreciation to both sides of the aisle for what you've done today. I ask unanimous consent that staff be authorized to make necessary technical conforming changes to the committee print without objection so ordered.
▶ 8:27:25Pursuant to House Rule uh 11 clause 2L, I give notice that all members have the requisite number of days to file supplemental minority, additional or desending views without objection. So ordered. Without objection, any members who wish to insert materials in the record may do so by submitting them to the M committee clerk electronically by the end of the day today.
▶ 8:27:50If there is no further business before the committee, without objection, the committee stands