▶ 0:00:58The committee on house administration will come to order. The title of today's hearing is why the wait unpacking California's untimely election process. I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. Also, without objection, the hearing record will remain open for five legislative days. So members may submit any material they wish to be included therein. Uh thank you ranking member Morelli, members of the committee uh and our witnesses for participating in today's hearing.
▶ 0:01:27Today the committee on house administration will continue his oversight of federal election policies. The chairman of the committee uh it's a top priority of mine to improve federal election law uh and increase transparency for American voters. During the 2024 election cycle, 155 million Americans across the country uh cast their ballot in the elections for president, Senate, House of Representatives uh in state and local uh elections as well. Over 16 million of those votes were cast in the state of California.
▶ 0:01:55Uh most Americans watched election results being announced on election night. Uh that wasn't the case in California. According to the Associated Press, it wasn't until December 4, nearly a month later, that all of the California races were ultimately called. The longer it takes to provide the results of an election, the more voters uh can lose trust and become frustrated with the process. Today, we'll examine the reasons for California's delay in reporting results.
▶ 0:02:24Major cause of the delayed in California election results is the state's universal mail system which is prone to delays, tabulation, and ultimately the calling of races. The ability to vote by mail in California has been available in the state since 1982. Uh and state lawmakers have continuously expanded the bounds of mail-in voting.
▶ 0:02:43Ever since in 2022, the California legislature codified pandemic era procedural laws and enacted universal vote by mail for every election administered by the state. In other words, every registered voter in California gets a mail-in ballot. This not only opens the door for potential fraud, but it also causes delays on the counting side. Another issue we'll explore today includes accepting ballots after election day.
▶ 0:03:10Currently, California accepts ballots uh delivered up to 7 days after election day. We'll discuss with our witnesses if that means it needs to be postmarked, what happens if it's not postmarked, what happens if it's dated, not dated uh by the candidate. But California accepts ballots collected up to seven days after election day. This matters because on election day, California doesn't know how many ballots will be cast and so results for close elections can't be announced.
▶ 0:03:40uh in a timely manner. Make no mistake, it's California's own state policies that are creating these significant delays in election reporting. While other states are taking steps to implement positive change, California spent 50 years moving in the other direction. For example, in a state like Florida with a population of 23 million, uh Florida's able to report election results on election night.
▶ 0:04:04Following the 2000 election, of course, Florida took a serious look at its own election policies and passed a law to ensure ballots are actually counted on and by election night. Uh California's system uh also doesn't really increase voter participation. Timely election results uh I believe builds voter confidence and can increase voter turnout. In Florida, voter turnout was 78.9% of registered voters, a record high.
▶ 0:04:30California's participation in the 24 election was 71.4% of registered voters. Florida requires absentee ballots to be delivered to the election to to local election offices by the close of polls on election day. In Florida, absentee voters may cure ballot discrepancies uh within 2 days after the elections. California voters have up to 28 days to cure ball to cure absentee ballots. 28 days. Uh it's a long time.
▶ 0:04:59something we can be discussing with our witnesses as well. In November, three days after the election, I traveled to Los Angeles County's central count and got to witness uh the tabulating process in Los Angeles County firsthand. Uh when I arrived 3 days after the election, uh LA central count still had 900,000 outstanding ballots that need needed to be tabulated. And that's in LA County alone.
▶ 0:05:28That's not the state of California. 900,000 total just in LA County. It was an amazing experience to walk through the LA central count. And I think we have an opportunity to talk with our witnesses about the reforms that could be made. This is uniquely important because the balance uh in the United States House of Representatives at that time still had not been determined uh in large part because the races in California weren't called due to the lacks election laws that are resulting in these delays.
▶ 0:05:54uh the rest of the country shouldn't have to wait on California to know the results of the elections. We're looking at California particularly today uh because we they have continued to move the goalpost in their election policies. California's election administration highlights why Congress must conduct oversight of states federal elections and determine whether it might be necessary to enforce baseline standards on election integrities. So, I thank our witnesses for being here today.
▶ 0:06:18We're going to have a great conversation about what's going right and what's going wrong in elections across the country, but in particular uh what's going wrong in the state of California. And I thank our witnesses for being here today and look forward uh to our discussion. I'll now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Morelli, for five minutes for the purposes of providing his opening Uh good morning. Thank you uh Chairman Style for um calling us together. Uh and certainly thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
▶ 0:06:46Uh, I appreciate any effort to improve electoral processes in California or frankly anywhere else in America. But I do want to be clear about one indisputable fact. There is no evidence that California's recent elections featured any irregularities or fraud. California's elections were legal and legitimate. How do we know?
▶ 0:07:10Because in November of 2024, Republicans deployed election observers to more than half a dozen congressional districts across California. These observers monitored ballot tabulation and processing operations in California. They reported no instances of illegality or any serious election related irregularities. What they reported was California election officials following the law.
▶ 0:07:37And to be crystal clear, Republicans did not contest the outcome of a single congressional race in California under the Federal Contested Elections Act. To anyone watching this, please understand there is a longstanding mechanism for challenging congressional results that were improperly decided. And Republicans did not challenge any congressional result in California.
▶ 0:08:00There is no question the ballots counted in California in the period after election day were legally cast by eligible American voters. That undisputed. So this hearing is not about making American elections more secure. We're holding the hearing because uh my colleagues simply dislike the way Californians voted. It's not the procedure Republicans actually have a problem with. It's the outcome.
▶ 0:08:27Now, there are always ways in every election in America uh that we could make them more efficient, and I'm sure there's probably room in California uh for improvement in their elections to speed up the process. So, standardizing notice deadlines and ballot cure review across California. These policies uh could uh probably uh streamline elections. We could be working in a bipartisan way to enhance election efficiency in California and elsewhere.
▶ 0:08:55Instead, we seek to make elections less efficient. They push, my colleagues push policies that increase burdens on election administrators. Policies that take a sledgehammer to free, fair, and secure American elections. The Save Act, for example, which um was passed uh over our objections a couple weeks ago, allows any person to sue any election official based solely on mere suspicion that a non-citizen is registered to vote.
▶ 0:09:21How quickly will any state process ballots of election officials are besieged by endless frivolous lawsuits? And the president's already deemed illegal anti- voting executive order could lead to the descertification of thousands of voting machines used across the United States. This deeply harmful executive order would cost states billions of dollars. It would fundamentally disrupt American elections. And both the SAVE Act and the executive order would eradicate voter registration by mail or online.
▶ 0:09:50This would wreak havoc on election administrations nationwide and disenfranchise millions of military and overseas voters who rely on mail and online voter registration to exercise their sacred inalienable right to vote. Some proposed Republican policies would harm American elections so much even prior Republican witnesses at this committee caution against them.
▶ 0:10:11We've heard Republican witnesses warn of the inefficiency of processing handmarked, handcounted ballots, which have been advocated by members of the House Republican Caucus. Forget about weeks to resolve elections. It would take months or years to have election results. Committee Democrats called a witness today to give voice to the military and overseas voters that would be harmed by Republican election policies. But the record should reflect that our colleagues blocked Democrats initial witness choice.
▶ 0:10:40a military spouse stationed overseas named Sarah Strait Strader from appearing today. Sarah wanted to speak on to this committee about how we can better serve military and overseas voters. But because she is nearing the third trimester of pregnancy, transatlantic travel presented a significant barrier for her attendance here. Um the majority denied our request for her to testify remotely, something we have the technology to facilitate.
▶ 0:11:05So, because Sarah is a pregnant military spouse with travel limitations, she was not allowed to testify. It is not lost on us that if the SAVE Act were law, Sarah would also be unable to register to vote today because it requires in-person voter registration. So, women stationed overseas with pregnancy related travel limitations would be barred from registering to vote. Today, the majority will attack completely legitimate elections in California. That's the idea here.
▶ 0:11:32Meanwhile, President Trump and congressional Republicans advanced policies to create massive barriers to military voting. We have not held a single hearing on military and overseas voting. And the the votes act championed by Congress members Frost and Lee who's a member here of this committee would act increase access voter increase military uh voter access unlike the Save Act. Why are we discussing this today instead of that?
▶ 0:11:56We would happily wave this committee's notice requirements to call the votes act up right now to send it once again to the full house. So to defend rather than undermine legitimate American elections instead of wasting time, can we support military and overseas voters? I would hope we would. And thank you. I yield back my time. The gentleman yields back. Without objection, all other members opening statements will be made part of the record if they are submitted to the committee clerk by 5:00 pm today. Uh today we have a onewitness panel.
▶ 0:12:24Uh first we have Miss Ashley Titus uh who is a partner at Bell McAndrews uh in Hiltac. Uh next we have Mr. Austin Gilbert who's co-owner of Right Choice Strategies. Uh after that we have the Honorable Donald Palmer, chairman of the Election Assistance Commission. Uh and finally we have Rebecca Noachic uh from the Secure Families Initiative. We appreciate all of you traveling to be with us here uh today and look forward to your testimony.
▶ 0:12:51Uh let me remind the witnesses we've read your statements and they'll appear in full uh in the record. I'll now recognize Miss Titus for five minutes. Thank you, chairman and members of the committee. I am an attorney in private practice in Sacramento. My first election as an attorney for a campaign was March 2004, and it took two weeks after that election for the nominee to be known. For well over 20 years, California's canvas has been slow.
▶ 0:13:17But now there are more close contests that take three to four weeks after the election to determine the winner. California's election laws impose numerous procedures that extend ballot processing and counting far beyond election night. Election administrators must contend with constantly changing rules and manage a larger volume of complicated mail and provisional ballots in a one-month period following each election. The original culprit behind California's lengthy canvas is no excuse access to mail ballots.
▶ 0:13:46In 1978, California became the first state to allow voters to apply to vote by mail on an election by election basis without a reason. Since the 2020 general election, every active voter receives a ballot in the mail without applying. In the most recent general election, nearly 81% of California's 22 and a half million registered voters cast a mail ballot.
▶ 0:14:08Handdelivered and dropbox ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day, but mailed ballots are valid if they are received by an election official by the seventh day after the election. About half of mail ballots cast are dropped off by voters on election day and are not processed until days or weeks after election night. When a mail ballot is received by an election office, the laborious signature comparison process begins.
▶ 0:14:34Some counties in California use technology to conduct the first signature comparison, while others solely solely rely on election workers. Before a signature on an envelope is deemed not to compare to the voter's signature on file, three levels of review must find beyond a reasonable doubt that the signature on the mail ballot envelope possesses multiple significant and obvious differing characteristics when compared to all signatures in the voter's registration record.
▶ 0:15:02When a signature is challenged, the voter has an opportunity to provide a substitute signature. If a voter returns their mail ballot envelope without a signature, that voter also has an opportunity to provide a signature. In both cases, this process is known as signature curing. Depending on the county, a voter may submit a substitute signature as late as 28 days after election day. Many signature cures are returned as a result of the harvesting efforts of campaigns in close contests.
▶ 0:15:29Usually, county elections officials are permitted to certify their election results as soon as they have completed all of the required tasks, but a law temporarily in effect for the 2024 general election prohibited counties from certifying earlier than the 28th day after the election. The response of many county elections officials was to suspend canvas activities outside of normal working hours to avoid paying overtime to their canvas workers, thus further delaying the reporting results for the November 2024 general election.
▶ 0:15:58In addition to the nearly 60-day mail voting process that we have in California, California's same day voter registration significantly contributes to the delay in finalizing election results. This is known as conditional voter registration and California permits individuals who are not registered to vote by the 15th day before an election to complete a registration affidavit and cast a ballot.
▶ 0:16:21Conditional registrations are a type of provisional ballot, which take the most time and the most labor to process. It is the cumulative effect of all of these procedures and deadlines that cause the delay in finalizing California's election results. of the weeks it takes to know the outcome of close contests. California's Secretary of State Dr. Shirley Weber said Californians should be patient. But not all of California's policymakers agree that we should just accept this.
▶ 0:16:49There are several proposals currently pending in the California legislature to address the lengthy canvas. One bill would require all counties to offer in-person voting on the Saturday prior to election day. But given that 78% of voters already have this option and still over 80% of California's voters returned a mail ballot in the most recent election using an envelope, this is not likely to ease the post-election crunch.
▶ 0:17:14Several members of the California legislature have introduced bills this session to simply mandate speeding things up. But these proposals would impose an arbitrary deadline by which certain ballots must be counted or that the canvas must be completed without addressing the root causes of the current lengthy process and without equipping elections officials with the means to process ballot envelopes faster. The solutions must focus on mail ballot and same day voter registration procedures and deadlines.
▶ 0:17:41Otherwise, California will continue to be last in the nation to finalize its election results. That concludes my comments. Thank you very much. Uh, Miss Gil, Miss Mr. Gilbert, you're now recognized for five minutes. Good morning and thank you, chair and committee members. Uh, my name is Austin Gilbert. I'm a campaign field operative and consultant. Um, and I've run numerous campaigns over the last decade in the Central Valley and High Sierras in California. I've dealt with elections offices and officials during counting procedures, ballot curing operations, and recounts.
▶ 0:18:11across 13 different counties and I've been a resident of Fresno County my entire life. California elections can be described in one word, slow. Over the last decade, California has prioritized voter access over efficiency, effectiveness, and safety, inundating elections officials with time-consuming verification and sorting processes, security flaws, and a reliance on mail for voting.
▶ 0:18:33With the passage of the voters's choice act in 2016, California changed from traditional in-person voting to the new method of vote centers, dropboxes, and mail-in voting. With uh this process was designed to be slow from the beginning. To start, state law mandates that any election official accept and count ballots postmarked on or before election day and received within seven days of the election. This immediately slows results from being disclosed to the public as elections offices don't even receive an accurate count of the total votes cast until most of the nation has finished counting.
▶ 0:19:04The centralization of this election process from precincts to vote centers and the elections office has also complicated the ballot sorting process. Specifically within Fresno County, we typically deal with upwards of 3 to 500 uh different ballot types, that being any ballot with different contests included on it. While in years past you would vote at a precinct of your neighbors and there were a very limited numbers of unique ballot types, uh now vote centers are required to provide every single unique ballot as any voter can vote at any vote center.
▶ 0:19:34You can imagine it's a lot easier to sort two to three different ballot types in one location than between 500 and one centralized vote center. California also has an extremely arduous signature verification process, one that relies heavily on human interaction and the interpretation of handwriting. While most states verify identity before voters receive a ballot, California sends ballots out to every voter and verifies a signature after the fact. This process of signature verification usually works in three steps.
▶ 0:20:03Ballots are received in the elections office and scanned for a signature. The signature is compared to the voter's signature on file and the ballot is either accepted and opened or denied. At this point of denial, a ballot cure form will then be sent to the voter so they have a chance to correct their missing or non-matching signature. While in theory this sounds simple, in practice it becomes the most complicated process in administering an election. In the days following an election, you can often see thousands of ballots in one room at different stages of the verification process.
▶ 0:20:30This includes ballots that have yet to be verified, ballots that are waiting on cure forms, ballots that have been accepted and are being separated from the envelope, provisional ballots awaiting verification, and conditional voter registration forms. All of this before elections officials can even flatten, sort, and count to provide results to the public. There are also multiple deliveries of ballot types to the elections office on election night. This comes from ballot boxes across the county, vote centers, and United States Postal Service.
▶ 0:21:00All of these added steps and processes revolve around the signature verification process, which is largely done by temporary workers and election employees inside of a single county warehouse. It's important to compare this to the original process where where voters would sign next to their name in a precinct, it would be verified and that voter crossed off the list from their specific precinct and then a ballot would be issued. Now, rather than just sorting ballots, the elections office is single-handedly tasked with the entirety of verification, sorting, and counting.
▶ 0:21:29California also does not maintain clean voter roles. In many counties across the state, voters are tasked with updating their own elections office on changes to their registration, including if a relative dies or no longer lives in the state. In many instances, households would receive ballots for members of their family that were recently deceased or no longer live there. While that is a massive security concern, it also adds to the extremely high cost of administering elections.
▶ 0:21:54In virtually every elections office, you can ask to see their undeliverable ballots, which usually surpass the thousands. These ballots are ones that USPS couldn't verify an address for or were returned to the elections office for any number of reasons. With the price of paper, printing, and postage, you can imagine this amounts to a massive cost.
▶ 0:22:14Complicated verification processes, ballots still being received up to a week after election night, the ability of voters to cure ballots 28 days after an election, and messy voter roles have led to one of the slowest and most costly election processes in the nation. The prioritization of voter access has led to a lack of speed, security, and a diminishing trust in California elections over the last decade. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh Mr. Mr. Donald Palmer, chairman of the Election Assistance Commission, you're now recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:22:45Thank you, Chairman Style, Ranking Member Morelli, and members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to appear for you to address post-election procedures. At the EAC, we offer year-round help to election officials to improve the administration of elections. This ensures that eligible Americans can participate in a secure electoral process, and have confidence in the final results. Prior to the 2024 election, I visited four of California's largest election offices to discuss their challenges, meet their senior staff, and thank them for their public service.
▶ 0:23:14It should be noted that American elections are highly decentralized with different states prioritizing different policies concerning ballot return counting and finalizing results. Today, I hope to provide insight into why it takes longer to count ballots in California than in many other states. In prior years, the California legislature has made several policy choices that have contributed to the extended curing and ballot counting timeline. I also note that California legislators have recently proposed several measures that would streamline the post-election process.
▶ 0:23:44As an all ballot mail state, California gives voters 28 days after election day to cure signature discrepancies on mail ballots. In contrast, for example, Arizona gives voters five business days and Cal Colorado voters have eight days to cure mail and ballots. In addition to the extended cure period, under California election law, ballots may be received up to seven days after the election. In contrast, 33 states require that mail ballots be received by election day.
▶ 0:24:12When provided the opportunity to drop a mail ballot off on election day, voters inevitably do so, thus pushing the necessary canvasing and verification of mail ballots deeper into the pre-certification period. With the omission or mismatch of signatures of mail and ballots, the curing per period also extends the time of the final tabulation of results. Individual state laws play a fundamental role in our elections.
▶ 0:24:38Some of the factors involved in a different pace in tabulating and final certified results include the extent and timing of absentee or mail ballots and early voting, pre-processing opportunities and tabulation reporting requirements, resources and personnel available to election officials, deadlines to return absentee or mailin ballots to voters and curing or provisional ballot rules.
▶ 0:25:02So pri before joining the EAC, I've served as a director of elections in Florida from 2008 to 2011. In Florida, county supervisors of elections must finalize their results within 13 days following the election. During this time, election officials offer voters a curing process, which includes signature resolution and the opportunity to correct incomplete ballot certificates. The timeline in Florida offers a streamlined and efficient vote tabulation process that balances the need for accuracy and promptness.
▶ 0:25:31However, it took the state of Florida several years and election cycles of trial and error to find the correct procedures to maintain efficiency, report promptly, and increase voter confidence. As charged by the Help America Vote Act of 2002, the EAC fulfills its role as a national clearing house for information on election administration. In many ways, the EAC regularly provides detailed best practices, templates, and webinars related to mail ballots, the canvasing process, post-election activities, and ballot curing.
▶ 0:26:00The EAC has highlighted jurisdictions using new technology to allow voters to promptly cure ballots. These resources promote consistency and legal compliance, ensuring that every lawful vote is counted, and the electoral process are secure, reliable, and timely. In addition, the 2024 election administration voting survey or ease will be delivered to Congress by June 30th. It contains questions on state ballot curing.
▶ 0:26:28This enhanced data collection will better enable the EAC to show ballot curing trends across the United States and provide baselines to inform future state laws and administrative improvements. I would also like to touch on the role of the United States Postal Service in ballot delivery and its failure to deliver timely ballots.
▶ 0:26:48The EAC will continue to work with the USPS and the states to build that relationship and to improve ballot balloting mail balloting across country through adequate funding of the EAC. The commission will continue to provide crucial support and policy recommendations to states and localities across the country. Thank you for your continued investment in the AAC and your unwavering commitment to election administrators, poll workers, and our nation's public servants. We look forward to collaborating closely with you on these and other essential matters.
▶ 0:27:18I would be pleased to address any questions you may have. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh Chairman Palmer, uh Ms. Noachek, uh you are now recognized for five minutes. Hi, good Um, thank you for the invitation to speak today, uh, specifically on this topic of election administration in California. My name is Rebecca Noachic. I am the director of external partnerships at Secure Families Initiative.
▶ 0:27:43We are a nonpartisan organization that strengthens the voices of diverse military families, is an active and influential constituency on issues that impact our lives. We also lead the Military Vote Coalition, a nonpartisan coalition of over 20 military family and veteran support organizations united by our mission to protect the military community's access to the ballot box.
▶ 0:28:06SFI's military voter education programs have also been recognized nationally and highlighted is key information source for active duty families by the Department of Defense. I'm here today representing my community um and SFI, but not to advocate for any partisan outcome, but to ensure that the community we represent is at the table where our access to the ballot box is being discussed.
▶ 0:28:33Personally, my firsthand knowledge, both as a military spouse and also as the daughter of a combat veteran, has led me to this work. Military families represent America. Military families come from rural areas, small and large towns, and cities. They include members from every ethnic group, religion, educational background, and sexual orientation. Nearly 50% of service members are black, indigenous, or a person of color.
▶ 0:29:02Over 50% are over, I'm sorry, over 50% are under 30 years old, and 92% of military spouses are women. The military community is a network of families stationed all over the world. Most active duty families move every two to three years. These moves can disrupt support networks, safety, children's education and social lives, and limit career paths. These moves also impact our ability to vote.
▶ 0:29:27Routine mail delivery delays is a common challenge entirely out of our hands when stationed far away from home. For example, families stationed all the way in Japan have shared experiences of mail taking six to eight weeks. And there are other challenges that I've highlighted in my written testimony. So, it should be no surprise that military voters are 27% less likely to have voted than their civilian counterparts.
▶ 0:29:52When a military voter tries to vote, but is unsuccessful, the most common reason is because their ballot arrives past the deadline. The second most common reason comes when a military voter's ballot gets rejected for something like a missing signature or a date and the voter isn't notified or provided the opportunity to cure the ballot by the deadline. That's why we have long advoc advocated for policies that would tackle these top issues facing our community.
▶ 0:30:16Best practices include number one, enable ballots that are postmarked by election day to arrive at least 7 days after election day to still be counted and two ensure timely ballot rejection notification and robust ballot curing processes uh and opportunities for our voters. Both these policies are true for California, home to the largest number of active duty members in the United States and also one of the largest uniform and overseas citizen or UACABA voting populations.
▶ 0:30:44These policies may lead to longer wait times, true for election results, but more importantly, they go a long way to protect military voters who should have the same opportunity as our civilian counterparts to be maximally deliberative about our choices at the ballot box. There are two proposed federal policy changes currently in motion. One, the Save Act, which this chamber advanced earlier this month, and the March 25th executive order regarding voter registration requirements.
▶ 0:31:13Both take American elections in the opposite direction where military voters need them to go. For instance, one of the barriers of the Save Act may impo may impose would require voters to bring passports or birth certificates in person to their election office when they register. This means military families would no longer be able to register from that far away duty station.
▶ 0:31:34And if a person has changed their last name since birth, for example, um if you're like me and changed my last name when when I married my husband, uh using a birth certificate might not be sufficient documentation on itself. If implemented, the March 25th executive order would also undermine the ability for military families to access the ballot box.
▶ 0:31:54The order would mean that the military family stationed halfway across the world from home who crossed every tea, who dotted every eye when casting their ballot, their military ID would no longer suffice, and mail delays outside of their control could mean their ballot could never count. So, in closing, I'd like to remind the committee that voting carries a profound profound gravity for us. The right to vote is a cornerstone of the democracy that we as military families have committed to protect.
▶ 0:32:20I urge this committee as well as every other body in Congress, don't abandon us. Don't abandon military families. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh I'll now recognize myself uh for five minutes for the purpose of asking questions um out of the gates. Without objection, um I'd like to insert the written testimony of Cole Peterson, the data director for the California uh Republican Party. Without objection. Um, Miss Titus, I want to start with you.
▶ 0:32:47Um, in particular, kind of dialoguing the seven days uh the ballots can be received by California after election day. Um, you would think that it would have to be postmarked, right? I mean, it would the idea is that it's in the USPS system. What's the check on that in California? Do they review for postmark? What happens if it's not postmarked? Um, could you provide some color to that? They do in fact review for postmarks and they do reject mail ballots that either don't have a postmark or don't have a date.
▶ 0:33:16California doesn't require that the voter date their ballot when they sign it, but they there is a space to do so. And if they are dated on or before election day, but lack a postmark, then those would be counted. So, so let's just dialogue this all the way through because I when I was at um LA central count, I found this really interesting because I watched ballots arrive uh by mail into the system three days after um as I noted about 900,000 total ballots were somewhere in the process of being counted of being validated, observed
▶ 0:33:46um the the signature verication. We'll come to that second. Um, but is your testimony that if USPS doesn't date uh the envelope uh and an individual then opens the ballot uh the the the voter is not required to date the ballot in California under California law, but if they do date the ballot and they date it by election day, uh it would still count. Is that accurate? Yes.
▶ 0:34:11So, the real check isn't that the it was in, it's it's a it's a trust system that the individual who dated the ballot dated it on the correct day, right? Correct. And so, if somebody dated it by election day, USPS didn't um uh stamp that with a with a postal date stamp, it would count. Yes. And that USPS doesn't date 100% of their mail. Correct. Yes. This it sounds like a problem. And the the way to fix this, of course, would just be to require that it's collected in in by election day.
▶ 0:34:41Um I I went to high school, I think a lot of us did, and when a paper was due, when did we write the paper? Uh when it was due. Um and so if you just say it has to be in by election day, it it shifts that. And uh Chairman Palmer, uh you noted 33 states require that ballots uh be in by election day. Okay. I'm assuming that means 17 plus maybe the District of Columbia uh allow them to come in after election day. Is that accurate? Yes, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:35:10And and do you is there a significant correlation with voter participation if it needs to be in by election day or after election day? I don't I don't think it's directly there's a direct correlation, right? It's just people people are going to do it by the deadline, right? So, if you say you got to have it postmar, you got to have it in by election day, you get a ton of people that drop it in the box by election day. you say it's got to be received by election day.
▶ 0:35:31A lot of people drop it in uh sufficiently in advance or drop it in in person uh so that at least the physical ballots are all in by a specific deadline. Right. I agree, sir. And so if I'll come back to you, Miss Titus. Um so California runs a system also where every registered voter receives a ballot regardless of whether or not they request it. It's automatically sent. Is that accurate? Yes.
▶ 0:35:56And so when that goes out um obviously not a 100% of the people that receive a ballot participate in the election but a large percentage I think it was about 70 or so percent in the state of California. But for the purpose of calling election, uh not only do you need to know the numerator, how many ballots come in, uh and they can come in up to 7 days after the election, but you also need to know the denominator, which is how many total people uh are voting when you're I apologize. The denominator in the context of what percent uh you would need to to be able to win an election.
▶ 0:36:27So for 7 days, um everybody in California is reasonably blind is the total number of ballots cast in an election. Is that accurate? Yes. Yes. And that makes it really hard to call a race to know uh who won an election, right? Yes. And so that that challenge I think is a real and substantive challenge. I want to end uh with uh the signature comparison. Uh when I walked through LA Central count, it was burned into my mind watching this woman uh do the signature verification.
▶ 0:36:57Um what standard or what training are the workers given uh who are engaged in the signature verification in California? There is no standardized training. So there's no training. There's no standardized training. Okay. Some counties have more rigorous training. Some counties have very little. Uh what I've also seen is the comparison process is often occurring on a computer screen and they may be comparing four different voter ballots at the same time.
▶ 0:37:23So they will have the scans of the outside of and the standard which which so the training varies. The the woman that I met said she had almost no training. Um and there's about 17 criteria they're supposed to apply when and the standard that they have to meet is beyond a reasonable doubt. Correct. It's a pretty high standard. Yes. Uh especially in a situation where these live ballots are mailed to every registered voter. Um I think we've identified some of the challenges we see in California. Appreciate our witnesses here. Cognizance of the time. I'll now recognize uh the ranking member for five minutes for questions.
▶ 0:37:54Uh thank you uh Mr. Chair. I'd just like to ask the witnesses, can you raise your hand if you have information um uh or knowledge that demonstrates that California election officials wrongly certified a winner in this year's California congressional elections. Okay. The record should reflect that uh none of the witnesses uh raised their hand. I I do want to ask um Mrs.
▶ 0:38:20Um, Miss Noachic, am I I'm sorry if I'm probably killing your last name. I apologize. If it were easy, like Morelli, I would get it. But, um, your uh your testimony discusses um how vitally important it is to our democracy, the right uh to vote uh for particularly for military and overseas voters.
▶ 0:38:39to your knowledge, the voter access and election administration policies in place in states like California, and I will say in my state of New York, which also allows uh ballots postmarked to be counted up to a week uh after election day, do these policies enhance the ability of military and overseas voters to cast a free, fair, and secure ballot? Yes.
▶ 0:39:00So, so our our position is we need to take in account the experiences that our families are experiencing and for those stationed overseas or even in the continental United States uh when trying to access uh the polls, we will experience mail delays. And so any uh policy that takes that into account like the state of California um being able to count ballots seven days after the election makes it easier for our community to participate. Absolutely.
▶ 0:39:29you you mentioned in your testimony um and I I don't know this I didn't have this experience but uh I think you indicated the number of days typically that ballot that mail delays can occur. Let me just uh I I thought there was a number in here but can you just tell me a little bit you you've had this experience of the amount of time that it takes just for us mail to get back and forth um from wherever you happen to be.
▶ 0:39:56Obviously, it depends on where you are, but if you're in the Pacific, um can can you talk a little bit about those delays which you experienced? So, uh priority mail for international for um for USPS is about 6 to 10 days. Uh others average about 7 to 14 days. So, from our position, you know, two weeks is very friendly to the military voter, but we recommend seven days as the gold standard. Yeah.
▶ 0:40:23And so the process is if you're on a base, can you just talk about that? I I actually don't know how it or if you're, let me say this, if you're on an aircraft carrier in the middle of the Pacific, how does that how do you get Well, I personally have never been on an aircraft carrier in the middle of the Pacific, but someone in your organization probably has. We do have members with that experience. Um, I can I can um I can share I can share when it doesn't go well.
▶ 0:40:47So, we have a member who was stationed because we do have people who are stationed, families who are stationed on installations that aren't US military installations. So, in a military installation um connecting the United States, we we have access to our mail system. But, for example, we have one member who was stationed on a Canadian military installation. So therefore, she did not have access to US mail and um actually ended up having to pay a private courier to then courier her ballot back to make the deadline extremely expensive.
▶ 0:41:17And we know the majority in our community do not have those financial resources to do that. And I I share this story for two reasons. one to, you know, hit home really what the mail delay situation and those barriers can be for us, but also really to express how many people in our community desperately want to participate in this process and are really looking for policy makers to make it as accessible as possible for us to do so. Uh, thank you for that answer and I guess you're right. You're a spouse of so you wouldn't that makes sense. Um, it's Tuesday.
▶ 0:41:48I apologize. I'm not really fully uh functioning yet. Um, the other thing that you mentioned, which I hadn't really given thought to, but I guess makes a great deal of sense, is that you you may be on a military base, but you may be in a in a host country and you have to make that connection somehow. And so I appreciate your comments about that. I I would say this and I I appreciate all the witnesses um and your perspective.
▶ 0:42:13Um, and I just from my perspective, getting this right is may more important than getting it fast. And I, like I said in my opening statement, I'm certainly willing to look at and obviously with the Elections Assistance Commission, uh, we could all look at ways to improve this and make this faster for everyone to some degree, but we also want to respect the the notion that California, other states want to get it right.
▶ 0:42:40They want to afford every single voter in their state the opportunity to vote. Um, and look, this isn't it shouldn't be a gotcha. I mean, the right to vote should be inalienable. It is, you know, according to our founders, inalienable uh rights that we have. And so, the fact that California takes time to get it right. And I suspect from the fact that there were no contested elections that they actually did get it right. So, I I I don't want to value speed over doing this properly and getting it right. So anyway, I thank the witnesses for being here.
▶ 0:43:10Mr. Chair, I yield back. The gentleman yields back. Uh the representative from Oklahoma, Miss Vice, is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for the witnesses for being here today. Uh first, let me say that I represent the great state of Oklahoma. And prior to being elected to Congress, I was in the state senate where I oversaw the state election commission. Shout out to Paul Xerox, secretary of election board there. You know, Oklahoma, I think, is doing elections right.
▶ 0:43:38Uh we have voter ID laws in place and have had them based on a state question that was put forward to the voters a couple of decades ago. And that ensures that a couple of things. One, that the election uh is in is uh verified and there's integrity in that process. Uh and also speed. And my colleague, the ranking member just talked about speed.
▶ 0:44:02Uh I've now participated in several elections uh in the state legislature and now as a member of Congress and I know on election night whether or not I am going to serve in that capacity. I think it is uh unbelievable to hear that it takes a month for the state of California to be able to certify these elections. That that in itself provides uncertainty in the process and I think that's what's really problematic here.
▶ 0:44:30I want to mention um earlier the comments that the ranking member made um in regards to the votes act. No matter a service member's status and no matter if you are in the service or not, each state has procedures for all eligible overseas uh Americans to vote. And those options always require or or include mail. But let me be clear. If there are examples of overseas voters being denied by a state, we want to hear about that because we certainly want to make sure that we're addressing that issue.
▶ 0:45:00It's important to every member on this committee. Um, let me start, if I may. Uh, Miss Titus, almost two million more ballots were cast in California's presidential election in 2020 than in 2024. Do you believe the larger turnout in California uh was due to ballot harvesting efforts? I'm not sure that the turnout in 2020 being higher than 2024 was a cause of ballot harvesting.
▶ 0:45:30I think every cycle the political parties tend to be the drivers of ballot ballot harvesting. Um they tend to be the ones that are training the campaigns how to do it because the campaigns sort of change every two years. And so the parties are kind of the keepers of the the procedures for how to execute ballot harvesting. And I tend to think that they get better at it year after year. So I'm not sure that turnout going down from um over a four-year period is caused by ballot harvesting.
▶ 0:45:56I think it's worth noting though that in 2020 there were 2.39 I'm sorry two yeah 2.39 mil million more mail-in votes than in 2024. That's a huge number. Um I want to pivot for a second too to the curing conversation. uh being from Oklahoma, I didn't know what that was. I had no idea what curing actually meant. Uh and again, I think that just brings some uncertainty to the process. And so, um I want to pivot slightly. You mentioned the signature verification process.
▶ 0:46:27Raise of hands here. How many of you use the exact same signature every time or have the exact same signature today that you did a decade ago? Raise your hand. You're the only one, my friend. My point being, I don't I don't understand why we're using signature verification for this process. It's not I think uh it it provides uh the ability for inaccuracies across the board.
▶ 0:46:55And I understand that you're taking information from all these different uh public records to be able to verify those those signatures, but I think that in itself is problematic. I don't understand why we wouldn't do a voter ID type of process. The other thing that's been mentioned is that we are allowing for uh this lengthy process of being able to deliver ballots um after election day. And again, I think that breeds uncertainty. We want people to have confidence in our elections.
▶ 0:47:23And that means timely uh information. That means a quick turnaround on counting those ballots. So for me, I also think that California should consider actually moving some of these dates up. Why are we not uh allowing more in-person voting uh early inperson voting? It was mentioned there was one day Saturday that you can inerson vote. Why not tell people your ballot needs to be in by election day? And by the way, we're going to have additional uh in-person voting days to be able to to allow for that.
▶ 0:47:53Um Mr. Gilbert, you mentioned Californians maintenance or rather mismaintenance of voter roles and recommended actions to improve them. Um, how many signatures do we think that California has on file for verification and how old are they? Um, typically every voter has about four to five signatures on file. Every time you change something at the uh at the DMV or you submit another uh voter registration when you move, those would be updated and added permanently to your voter file.
▶ 0:48:22Yeah, I think this sort of proves my point that your your signature may change over time and certainly uh that verification process I think becomes much more complicated. uh as a state that doesn't do signature verification and believes that we do elections like a a right, I'd like to see uh that changed. With that, Mr. Chair, I yield. The gentleoman yields back. Representative Su is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to welcome all of our witnesses and thank you for your testimony today. I'm a daughter of Selma, Alabama. I grew up there.
▶ 0:48:51I have the honor and privilege of representing them in Congress. And there's nothing more important and sacred than the right to vote in my opinion. and protecting that right I think is something that is uh clearly within our preview uh here on this committee. I'm a little bit puzzled by our hearing today. Um I mean the first premise that is being made is that somehow giving everyone a ballot who is eligible uh is somehow flawed.
▶ 0:49:18Uh you know I I think that we as elected officials should be in the business of making it easier for people to vote not harder for people to vote. I represent Alabama and Alabama has same day voting only. We don't have early voting. We don't have our absentee ballot process has been restricted. Uh you can't even help your elderly grandmother without thinking without um help helping her to Um who has a you know an elderly grandmother who has a stroke a stroke victim.
▶ 0:49:48you can't help them uh prepare their ballot uh by because you're for fear of the of of a felony being committed. Um that's the most recent um uh charge that Alabama has. Um, you know, there are, uh, Alabama, I mean, California is one of the largest states in the union, and they have a lot of folks, uh, and they provide eligible voters, um, uh, their vote by mail.
▶ 0:50:17And so, I don't think that there is something inherently wrong with sending ballots out to every eligible voter. In fact, I would venture to guess that Alabama that California does have a better return rate and participation rate than states like Alabama that make it harder for folks to vote. Um, and the second reason why we're here today is because somehow getting it uh getting the results that same night is so critically important.
▶ 0:50:44It's in more important than making sure that our overseas military personnel uh who are eligible voters get their ballots back in a timely fashion. I'm not sure what timely is, but I can tell you same day results uh does not make it uh any less prone to fraud or any more prone to fraud. rather it allows eligible voters um time, especially those that are overseas, uh an opportunity to cast their ballot.
▶ 0:51:14Um I would venture to guess, Mr. Chairman, that it's more important that we protect that sacred right to vote um than to uh to get some result in that same night. um or um so for me I I think that uh I've been encouraging folks in the state of Alabama to do early voting and to make it easier for folks to vote, not harder for folks to vote. Uh and I'm not really sure why my colleagues don't think that that's right.
▶ 0:51:43Um especially when the Brennan Center says that there's a 05% of fraud that occurs during elections, not uh a rampid um fraud. uh from everyone. Um so I'd like to ask you, Mr.
▶ 0:51:59Palmer, as the one of the directors of uh one of the commissioners uh for the Federal Election Commission, um are there best practices that are re recommended when it comes to military uh personnel voting or absentee balloting? Is there sort of um a one way to do that?
▶ 0:52:19Uh and I also would like I guess the first question that I have for you is is it a right for el for a right for American citizens to have um the the right to vote when they turn 18? Isn't that a right that every American citizen has? And if so, why is it that so many states like states like Alabama make it uh harder for folks to vote rather than easier for folks to vote? Thank you.
▶ 0:52:48Uh I the EAC's uh clearing house function sort of takes best practices from across the country and we share them with each other so states can see how things are working across across the country. Our EVE survey is something that um our election officials across the country could also view and compare it to other states and similar counties.
▶ 0:53:07And I I agree with you that um you know come becoming of age at 18 and being able to register to vote and vote um you know talking about the opportunities um may include in person you know in person absentee it may include in person early voting o overseas voting so there's no actually I'm running out of time so there's no sort of standardized practice that that is recommended by the commission no I think we we take a a best practices look and also the use of techn technology
▶ 0:53:37to make our elections more efficient. Yeah. Um Mr. Mr. Chairman, I just want to just go on record as saying that the right to vote is a sacred right. It is not a privilege for the few. Um somehow we uh my colleagues on the other side of the aisle think that somehow it's a privilege. It is a birthright of every American citizen to be able to vote and we should be in the business of making it easier to vote, not harder to vote. I'd like to um put into the record unanimous consent to enter into the record two items.
▶ 0:54:08A letter uh we sent to you, Mr. Chairman, requesting that the majority be allowed uh to have a testify by remote uh access. Uh and secondly, a January 2025 Orange County uh grand jury report on November 20 of the November 2024 election uh which made three findings that there was no evidence of fraud. And without objection, thank you. I yield back the balance of my time. Representative yields back. The representative from Illinois, Miss Miller, is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Chairman.
▶ 0:54:37Chairman Palmer, you previously served as the Florida Director of Education, I mean, of elections and the Commonwealth of Virginia's chief election official. What is the starkkest contrast between how those states collect their ballots and Well, I think that the the starkkest difference or the contrast is sort of um the results early voting and election day plus pre-processed absentees are all those are ready
▶ 0:55:07to go on election night. Um the mail ballot model really and and and and um ballot box issue allows those ballots to be returned either by the mail on election day which will then take 7 to 10 days uh into the certification period or a ballot box which then they those those ballots still need to be processed. So you already have the results when you're voting in person or early voting or pre-process absentee with some deadline.
▶ 0:55:36those ballots um are ready to go and those results will be ready to go on election night. If you are waiting to receive um mail ballots, you then have to go through the process of signature comparison, processing those ballots, a cure cure period. So that is why it takes so long in a mail ballot model takes longer. uh large populations and large counties, you're going to have a large number of issues uh in getting those ballots uh tabulated and the results out.
▶ 0:56:06Uh and so it just pushes the it pushes the results uh later into the period. Hope that helps. Yes. So would the what would you say then are procedures or model legislation California should adopt from states that you previously served? So I believe the pre-processing of absentee or mail ballots is important. um early voting that allows the tabulation of a ballot on site. Uh and then um election day, a healthy election day, so you give options to voters.
▶ 0:56:35Um I also think that there should be a deadline for absentee or mail ballots um prior to election uh uh day. Um and then they should be returned by election day. uh that allows voters to know that if they don't have the option uh to um to return their ballot by mail or absentee that they can still vote in person. Uh and so that allows the system to work. We relying too much on the USPS. The USPS um is having major issues.
▶ 0:57:05They continue to extend their service dates and that has a direct impact on elections and voters. Um, you'll find in a lot of mail ballot states that voters do no longer trust the United States Postal Service to get their ballots in on time. So, they're going to return it in person or a ballot box. Um, again, when you return a ballot by mail a box, it still's got to go through that entire process of processing as if it was a mail ballot.
▶ 0:57:31And so, I I think that um those are some of my recommendations for a state trying to uh make that process more efficient on the front end. Thank you. And Mr. Gilbert, can you please expand on how the Voters Choice Act has complicated ballot counting for election workers by allowing numerous different ballots to be submitted in one voting location.
▶ 0:57:56So, uh, when previously you would just go into your precinct and vote, now a vote center has to supply any given ballot to any voter. So, for instance, if you live in uh in my area, if you live in Kinga and you're in Fresno to work and you're at the Fresno Vote Center, they have to provide your ballot for the city of Kinga. Um when typically you would have to be nearer to your home.
▶ 0:58:19So now that vote center is in charge of sorting that ballot, which is nothing like the Fresno City ballots around it, and also they have to be able to provide conditional voter registrations. So if you have not registered to vote and you would like to vote, you also can register that same day and vote and those are extremely Are there other election processes that have become more burdensome due to the voters's choice act?
▶ 0:58:44Um I would say that the number one thing we've seen ever since they started mailing ballots to everyone is they California still does mail to PO boxes as well, not just physical uh addresses. If you go into any United States Postal Service towards the PO boxes about 30 days before the election, you can find about a couple hundred ballots in the trash can. So, I I think that's a security concern and one of the things we've seen since the change in procedure. Thank you. And I yield back. Chairman, gentleoman yields back.
▶ 0:59:14Uh the gentleoman from California, Representative Torres, is recognized for five minutes. Thank you. And um let me just start by saying that as the only Californian on this committee, I am outraged. I am simply outraged at the continued attacks from this committee against my home state chairman.
▶ 0:59:34How dare this committee attack the dulyeleed uh members of the state legislature who were elected by Californians to represent them. The fact is California is doing just fine without your input. Let's look at the facts. California h is the fourth largest economy in the world.
▶ 1:00:04We send billion to the federal government and we get 83 billion less in return. Meanwhile, Florida gets 41 billion more, Ohio gets 49 billion more, Texas gets 71 billion more.
▶ 1:00:25So, do us a favor and when your state rises to the level of California, then let's talk about fixing California.
▶ 1:00:39So, let's now talk about Last year, chairman, the chairman and other Republicans without giving Democrats on this committee a heads up, went to Los Angeles, wasting taxpayers dollars and time to look for problems. And guess what? They found zero zero problems.
▶ 1:01:02They visited the largest ballot processing center in the nation, responsible for nearly six million registered voters. That's bigger than 28 states in the nation. Not a single committee, not a single Republican or political observer contested the outcome of any House race or provided any evidence that California suffered from fraud or any other issues. Why is that?
▶ 1:01:33Because California members, our election infrastructure is sound. We invest in a secured system, rigorous training and transparency at every level. California has worked hard to ensure that every eligible American voter can cast their vote.
▶ 1:01:54And as frustrating as it may be to you and to other people, including myself at times, our fantastic state and local election workers make sure that our elections happen and that they are safe. As a mother of a veteran and a police officer, I know voters might serve far from their home or they might be a first responder that has to work on election day.
▶ 1:02:24Voters can't always take a day off. They might have mobility issues. This is why California established voting by mail to make it so that every eligible Californian can have their voice heard. California's promise to our voters, whether we like how they vote or not, your voice as a voter is heard.
▶ 1:02:48Normally, I would welcome a discussion on improving election operations, but these are not normal times. You see, President Trump and his cronies like Elon Musk do not care about the rule of law or the Constitution. They're destroying the economy.
▶ 1:03:08attacking and arresting judges and recently deported three American citizens children, including a two-year-old toddler and a fouryear-old with stage four cancer, a rare cancer. If President Trump and his administration don't care about due process for a child with cancer, how can you honestly sit here and debate and believe that they believe in the Constitution or a free and fair election?
▶ 1:03:40Hogwash. They ignore judges when decisions don't go their way. They deny election results when they don't win. Let's be honest, chairman. Their actions on elections has one goal. To sew distrust in our election system, to suppress the vote and to make it harder for Americans to participate in our democracy. Not your democracy, our democracy. Do you know what makes people question our elections?
▶ 1:04:10It's not California elections. It is the president Trump, Elon Musk, and the Republican party pushing lies and refusing to follow the law. Meanwhile, Trump's voting order and the Republican SEVAC will create huge burdens of every American. You've allowed other members to go beyond their time, but you don't like what I'm saying, so you try to shut me down.
▶ 1:04:35The SAVE Act is nothing but a a a bill to to try to cancel the vote of people that don't want to vote for you. And I yield back. The gentleoman yields back. All members are reminded to refrain from the use of personalities directed at members of Congress, the president, or the vice president. Uh all members having used their time for questions. I'd like to thank our witnesses uh for appearing before us today. Members of the committee may have some additional questions.
▶ 1:05:05uh for you and we ask uh you to please respond to those questions in writing. Without objection, each member will have five legislative days to insert additional material into the record or to revise and extend the remarks. If there's no further business, I want to thank the members for their participation. Without objection, the committee stands It's nice to meet try to