▶ 0:05:57afternoon. Uh, defense subcommittee will come to order. The topic of today's hearing is oversight of the Department of the Air Force. We have three witness before us today. Acting Secretary of the Air Force, Gary Ashworth, and Gary, we all like you, but hopefully your replacement will be confirmed uh here shortly. Uh, General David Alvin, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, and General Chance Salsman, Chief of Staff, Operations. Secretary Ashworth, welcome to the subcommittee.
▶ 0:06:25General Alvin, General Salsman, welcome back. Uh, obviously the we all know the administration released the skinny budget. The chairman here uh said it took him a whole 15 seconds to read it. So, it was pretty skinny. So for uh the fiscal year 2026 last Friday uh this request includes more than one trillion overhaul uh overall for the national defense. However, it does so by assuming 113 billion in funds through reconciliation.
▶ 0:06:55The reconciliation process is not a sustainable approach to resourcing defense. It's not substitute for regular appropriations. We are awaiting full details behind the Pentagon's request, but I'm glad the administration has prioritized significant funding uh for defense, especially to modernize the nation's nuclear deterrent and to support American space superiority.
▶ 0:07:20While we'll be uh limited in discussing specifics of the FY26 budget, I would like to hear about your priorities for next year. I'd like to hear about your approach to leading the Air Force and Space Force in an increasingly dynamic and complex world. From my perspective, you've got your work cut out for you at Absolutely.
▶ 0:07:41The the Air Force has had its share of challenges including the Sentinel Nun Mccertie breach, a number of cost overruns, schedule delays that have resulted in less Air Force, not more. I was pleased however the air force will be moving forward with the F-47 the next generation air dominance platform which was unfortunately delayed at the direction of the former secretary. Uh this this craft I think will be critical uh in the future of air superiority.
▶ 0:08:09Given the priority of this program I expect that it will be appropriately resourced in the president's budget submission. The program also needs to be rigorously managed to ensure that it remains on time and on budget. We can't have another repeat of the F-35 program. I've said it before, but uh quant uh quantity has equality onto itself. The Air Force has been challenged in both procuring the air platforms it needs and adequately sustaining the air platforms it has.
▶ 0:08:39Turning to space, Space Force continues to have an acquisition challenge as well, such as the GP GPS OCX program, which is more than seven years late. like to get an update on Space Force's progress in fing more resilient space systems. Our adversaries are rapidly expanding and enhancing their space capability to challenge the United States. I'd also like to understand more about the plans for the Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield.
▶ 0:09:08This committee needs to have a clear understanding of the Golden Dome concept. Specifically, what is the Golden Dome? Is it technically feasible? How much will it cost and who is who's charge? Overall, I remain very concerned that the Department of Defense continues to struggle with delivering critical capability on time and on budget.
▶ 0:09:33To be blunt, I think the defense acquisition system is broken and an urgent action is needed to address these programs. So, I'm pleased to see that the president signed an executive order earlier this month directing the Secretary of Defense to review the antiquated defense acquisition process, address burdensome regulations, make recommendations to incentivize the acquisition workforce to utilize innovative acquisition authorities, and take measured and calculated risk.
▶ 0:10:02I would like to note that nearly 50 years ago, Admiral Hyman Rickover, father of the nuclear navy, testified before this subcommittee about the core problems in managing complex development programs. I it was right here in this very room. Rick Over observed that the military rotation system where the program managers are replaced every two or three years was a major cause of problems.
▶ 0:10:25Rick over testified that due to the short of duration in the job, program managers quote have only the shallowest knowledge of the theory of the techniques they must deal with and little experience with the practical problems involved. And they are never kept long enough to on the job to acquire such skill and knowledge. Before the results are in, the manager will have moved on and a new manager equally unqualified technically will take his place.
▶ 0:10:52Rick Over continued, "Naturally, the new manager will feel no responsibility for prior decisions and actions. His primary ambition will be to keep the program moving in the hope that it will not fail during his own tour. Thus, responsibility cannot be fixed and there is no bound there is no bound to the little continuity in technical direction for most of the defense developments underway today." I believe Rickover's assessment is as true today as it was then.
▶ 0:11:22So I hope senior leadership in the department takes Rickover's assessment to heart because fixing acquisition will be critical for the department to deliver the weapon systems and capability the nation needs. Furthermore, you're keenly aware of my unwavering support for innovation. The department has made progress in this area through the defense innovation community of entities often referred to as DICE which includes several of your organizations. The defense innovation unit leads the DICE.
▶ 0:11:51It's my expectation that the services collaborate with DIU and optimize the rigor of mature program executive offices with DIU's flexibility and proximity to extraordinary technological hubs to partner on innovative solutions addressing combatant commanders needs. And finally, it's worth noting that we are in the process of consultation direction by the fullear continuing resolution for defense.
▶ 0:12:16While we are all disappointed that we did not complete a regular defense appropriation bill for fiscal year 25, I'm interested in hearing how the Department of the Air Force will navigate the remainder of the year. We'll work closely with you throughout this budget process to find ways we can accelerate the fielding of the platforms needed by our or or fire fighters today. With that, I'm happy to yield to my friend, the ranking member, Miss McCullum, for any opening remarks she would like to make. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:12:46Thank you for extending me this courtesy. Good afternoon. I'd also like to welcome acting secretary Ashworth, U. Generals, uh, Saltzman, and Alvin. It's a distinguished panel that's here, but as the chair pointed out, we look forward to having a conversation with the upcoming Secretary of Air Force about the budget after confirmation. We know that the Senate has been having conversations, but our members too uh would like to understand uh the priorities that he's going to be putting forth.
▶ 0:13:17This is our first hearing with the administration's release of the skinny budget. I'd like to take a few minutes to acknowledge what the administration is proposing for defense discretionary spending. President Trump is proposing 893 billion requests, essentially what President Biden would have proposed. This is effectively a freeze from the current fiscal year.
▶ 0:13:42Any increases beyond that are assumed through the reconciliation process which the authorizers control. No one will be shocked to learn that I don't think that reconciliation is a responsible way to appropriate defense dollars. The committee is constitutionally responsible for the allocation of DoD resources and we should be controlling the process.
▶ 0:14:05Appropriating defense dollars to reconciliation undermines the authority and the jurisdiction of the appropriations committee. Now, the administration of both parties have tried before to move money from the discretionary budget into mandatory spending. This is not a new trick, but this is something normally done without any defense spending involved. And that's because reconciliation bill may not become the law.
▶ 0:14:33If it does not, the committee cannot guarantee that the DoD priorities will be backfilled through the appropriations process. Next, we know the programs for clean energy and climate resilience have been cut by the administration. As leaders of the Air Force and Space Force, you cannot afford to take your eyes off the cost of climate change.
▶ 0:14:55Islands in the Pacific are not uh are not easily uh places to get shipping materials to or to build and maintain infrastructure in. It's difficult to protect them from the impacts of climate disruption. Just look at the typhoon that hit Guam two years ago. $180 billion dollars in additional funding was required to support the construction, planning, and design of facilities on Guam that were destroyed.
▶ 0:15:24The continuing resolution last December carried an additional $3.4 billion in repair costs for other catastrophic weather events. That's over five billion dollars in taxpayers money that they had to spend on the impacts of climate change within the Department of Defense. That's not waste. That's not fraud. That's not abuse or any other kind of political spin.
▶ 0:15:48It is necessary to prepare, to protect, and replace critical infrastructure that our war fighters depend upon. Climate disruption will not just go away by a wish and a prayer. It is something we have to plan for, deal with and expect to happen into the future. Now turning to major programs, Air Force and Space Force have big bills due right now.
▶ 0:16:10Sentinel program has been mentioned is ballooning 141 billion and that's from an original estimate of 78 billion. The schedule is wildly off track from where it needs to be. Next G next generation air dominance program is planned to exceed $23 billion and the price per plane is a serious consideration.
▶ 0:16:36Next, Air Force One is behind schedule and the Air Force has asked for more money to get that back on track. Progress has been made on the parked FE35s and that's good news. Although it was bad news for us to read in in the recently in the paper, the world's top jet fighter is about to get more expensive because of the tariffs.
▶ 0:16:58But there's more to get those planes more that needs to be done to get those planes delivered and the capabilities that the service needs depends on those planes being delivered. And then of course there are new requirements as the chair mentioned out. Golden Dome, a missile defense program that has yet to be fully articulated by the administration. These are problems that must be fixed through proper program management, planning, and resources, as the chairman pointed out.
▶ 0:17:26Finally, I want to comment on the administration's approach to personnel management. There is no question that there's a culture of fear developing across the federal government as this administration continues to demean and demoralize federal employees. I have spoken with far too many of them. People have been fired without cause. People have been asked to quit and quote find higher productive jobs in the private sector. I wish the Department of Defense had been immune to this, but it's not.
▶ 0:17:55I've had conversations with the services and especially Space Force about how do we build a first class workforce. Secretary Hass goal is to remove 60 to 70,000 civilians across DoD. Now, civilians are raising their hands not to serve, but they're raising their hands to leave. Who will be around to manage the contracting process if DoD needs to get major programs back on track?
▶ 0:18:22We are already living with the impacts of what happens when civilians take a buyout and stop working on contracts. The contract isn't signed. The mission doesn't get done. The programs fall behind and it costs the taxpayers more. There will be real ramifications to our national security because the administration's personnel pro policies. We need to do something, sure, but let's not take a chainsaw to it.
▶ 0:18:50Let's take a scalpel to what we need to do with our personnel policies. So, gentlemen, I want to thank you again for appearing here today. I want to thank you for your service to the service of the airmen, guardians, and civilians serving alongside you. And Mr. Chair, once again, I thank you for the courtesy and I yield back. Thank you, gentle lady, and now turn to my good friend from Oklahoma, Chairman Cole, for his remarks. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member McCullum. It's always great to be with both of you.
▶ 0:19:18I want to thank the witnesses obviously for being here with us today to discuss the current lay of the land for Department of the Air Force. Acting Secretary Ashworth, welcome uh to the Defense Subcommittee. General Alvin and Saltzman, nice to see you this afternoon. Um, you're sitting here before us as the Air Force and the Space Force face a critical path ahead. The world continues to be a volatile place with malign actors challenging American interests near and far.
▶ 0:19:47Time is not on our side as our adversaries have been outpacing and out producing us. We're at a pivotal moment where we need the air force and the space force that we have today to deter future conflict tomorrow. I'm concerned that it's been taking us too long to acquire new aircraft, weapons systems, and space capabilities. And I'm interested in hearing how the Department of the Air Force views managing risk as it pivots some missions from aircraft to space.
▶ 0:20:16For years, I've expressed serious concerns about capability gaps during transitions from one platform to the next. Given the challenges uh geostrategic complexities present today, this is certainly not a time to impose additional budgetary, programmatic and national security risk. The future of air power depends on multitasking.
▶ 0:20:39We need to modernize and move into the next generation of air superiority while simultaneously sustaining our inventory of aircraft. Unfortunately, over time, we've seen an erosion of some of the basics that are going to uh require your attention. One of these areas is manufacturing. Critical aspects of our industrial base have atrophied and we need to rapidly address aging and obsolete parts across platforms.
▶ 0:21:06Uh there's an opportunity to not just grow relevant technical skills, but to also have a modernized and agile approach moving forward. I'd like to hear your thoughts on advanced manufacturing capability in this country and the benefit it might have for the Air Force. Modern deterrence hinges on the success of our air and space forces. I look forward to being able to see where resources will be applied for these efforts in fiscal year 2026.
▶ 0:21:35I'm also encouraged to see the total amount in the defense submission will top $1 trillion. This top line demonstrates a strong commitment to national security. Although I would also say I share the concerns the chairman and the ranking member have uh about proceeding by reconciliation instead of normal appropriations process. Uh we're creating a cliff out there for somebody whoever the next president's going to be and that's a very dangerous thing to do.
▶ 0:22:03We all also need the line by line budget details for the committee to get to work in earnest to uphold fiscal discipline and effective governance. Committee's prepared to do the hard work and produce appropriations bills by the end of the fiscal year, but we'll need the military to provide timely responses to inquiries after the budget is actually submitted in full. And uh we look forward to your cooperation on that. I know you'll do everything you can to get us the information we need.
▶ 0:22:32Again, I want to thank all of you for being here. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, gentlemen. Gentlemen, your full testimony will be placed in the record. Please give a brief summary of statements. Uh, and start with you, Secretary Ashworth. You're recognized. Chairman Calbert, ranking member McCullum, and distinguished subcommittee members, General Alvin, Saltz, and General Saltzman, and I would like to thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the Department of You. Might want to put the mic a little bit closer to you.
▶ 0:23:04On behalf of the Department of the Air Force's FY26 budget request, the Department of the Air Force is at an inflection point. We are encouraged, we're engaged in a fast-paced race for technological superiority against a well-resourced strategic opponent. However, we simultaneously face personnel and platform challenges affecting our immediate readiness.
▶ 0:23:24We must balance our requirement to generate readiness and project power today with the imperative to rebuild our military and develop capabilities so that we can continue detering our adversaries tomorrow. Our fiscal priorities are focused on addressing the balance between these realities and supporting the United States national security objectives as outlined in the interim national defense strategic guidance.
▶ 0:23:48The scope and severity of the threats of to our homeland and national interests are significant and increasing and we now face one of the most dangerous security environments in our history. The Department of the Air Force has a structured or has structured our long-term strategy around the belief that China is our facing threat and this reality directly influences the department's fiscal priorities.
▶ 0:24:11China's defense budget has nearly doubled during the past 11 years, growing 6% annually on average. US defense spending has seen around a 3% growth over the same period, increasing below the rate of inflation over the last 5 years, and many of our allies and partners defense spending rates are even lower. These limitations have allowed China to seize an advantage.
▶ 0:24:37We know that everyone on this committee recognizes the importance of timely consist and consistent funding to our for our military and we truly thank you for your support. Defending the homeland is the Department of the Air Force's number one priority. We'll do so by continuing to modernize our nuclear forces, especially through the Sentinel, the B-21, and the long range standoff programs, as well as nuclear command control and communication systems that support those.
▶ 0:25:06We're also eager to support the president's Golden Dome for America. While still in the conceptual stage, there is no question that the Department of the Air Force will have significant role to play on that project. Our next priority is to deter China. We'll do this through investments in our people, our readiness, and our posture within the IndoPacific region. We believe that our people are and will continue to be one of our nation's key competitive advantages.
▶ 0:25:32We are working to train our airmen and guardians to confront the brutal challenges that warfare without sanctuary presents. We are emphasizing readiness standards by creating new inspections, assessments, and exercises geared towards preparing our personnel for that environment. And finally, we are strengthening our posture within the Indoacific region, conducting high level operational exercises that will test our ability to deploy and operate in those contested environments.
▶ 0:26:00Lastly, the Department of the Air Force is prepared to provide critical capabilities and forces to the joint war fighter in order to defeat our adversaries if our deterrence fails. We will concentrate our efforts in two areas. First, our ability to fight tonight and second, our ability to fight in the future.
▶ 0:26:19Through our current and future investments, the department aims to establish a balanced high low mix of combat capabilities optimized to project power both from within and outside of the adversar's threat environment. The Department of the Air Force is also looking to streamline our forces wherever possible. This includes finding creative ways to remove excess infrastructure and retire obsolete inventory.
▶ 0:26:43We also recognize our need and responsibility to pass an audit as soon as possible and we are working to make that a reality. The Department of the Air Forcees is extremely proud. I'm extremely proud of all of our airmen, our guardians defending our great nation and its interests every hour of every day. We commit to working with this committee to secure a timely enactment of the FY26 budget request, which will directly support our airmen and our guardians and their uncompromising mission.
▶ 0:27:11We thank you for your time today and we look forward to your Thank you. Uh now recognize General Alvin for your remarks. Good afternoon, Chairman Calbert, Ranking Member McCollum, and Chairman Cole and all the distinguished members of this subcommittee today. I'm proud to represent the 677,000 total force airmen serving our nation. I want to thank you for your support, not only for those airmen, but for their families as well.
▶ 0:27:37I'd like to open by expressing my immense pride in the exemplary performance of our airmen in securing a homeland and deployed worldwide. From the Indo Pacific to the Middle East to our southern border, they are working around the clock to deliver air power anytime, anywhere to protect the US. The strategic landscape has shifted dramatically. We now operate in a world where the PRC is not only rapidly modernizing its military, but doing so with a clear intent to coers its neighbors and reshape the international order.
▶ 0:28:06In parallel, we're seeing unprecedented threats to our homeland and a PRC nuclear breakout that demands unmatched nuclear deterrent capabilities. These converging pressures make one thing clear. The US must maintain air power dominance if we are to safeguard our security, deter aggression, and prevail in conflict. This is not a future challenge. This is today's reality. To achieve peace through strength, we must adapt and evolve.
▶ 0:28:33Reinforced by our most recent interim national defense strategic guidance, our air force has three enduring priorities. First, we must defend the homeland. Air missile threats are evolving both in speed and sophistication. The ability to detect, track, and defeat those threats in real time is foundational to our national defense, and it's non-negotiable. Simultaneously, the US Air Force provides a reliable and effective, safe two-thirds of the nuclear deterrent that is the backbone of strategic stability.
▶ 0:29:00These priorities are paramount, cannot fail, and must be given equal weight. Finally, we must project power globally, either independently or as part of the joint force to rapidly respond anywhere and deter aggression and win. This is what makes our air force unique, and it is needed now more than ever. To achieve these priorities, we're asking for sustained support for our modernization and the development of our new capabilities.
▶ 0:29:24The upcoming FY26 budget request is designed to build a force aligned with today's operational realities as well as tomorrow's opportunities and threats. This means preserving current readiness and optimizing our force design tailored for contested environments, one that blends next generation aircraft, autonomous systems, and resilient command and control.
▶ 0:29:44Our modernization efforts to rebuild our military include the continued development of the F-47 and the integration of collaborative combat aircraft to expand the combat mass at lower cost. We're also upgrading the F-35 and F-15 to keep pace with evolving threats. These platforms are critical not just to maintain parody, but to retain the edge our war fighters need. And at the same time, we are recapitalizing aging fleets essential to maintain power projection. Our investment in nuclear modernization remains a top priority.
▶ 0:30:15Funding directed towards the Sentinel program, the B-21 radar, and the revitalized B-52 fleet. These systems will anchor our strategic deterrent for decades to come. Equally important is the investment in our airmen. We are enhancing recruiting, expanding training opportunities, and strengthening family support structures. We suffered a recruiting setback due to the year-long continuing resolution and the subsequent reduction of nearly half a billion dollars in our military personnel account.
▶ 0:30:42This will result in our inability to fund the recruitment of 3,000 Americans who want to join our air force. We've got to do a better job on this. We don't just need more air force. We need more capable one. We need more tooth, less tail, a force that can deliver rapid, decisive blows, and reposition quickly for the next fight. That means devesting from aging systems and unused infrastructure while investing in platforms and people that enhance our war fighting capacity.
▶ 0:31:08More means more options for our nation, enhanced homeland defense, strengthened deterrence, and unmatched power projection. It means a force that is strategically postured to deny adversaries. No other service can match what the Air Force delivers affects anywhere in the globe at any scale on minimal notice. Our airmen are the best in the world, ready to win today and to build the enduring force for tomorrow. With your support, we can ensure the Air Force remains the cornerstone of American power through the 21st century. Thank you for your time and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:31:38Uh, thank you, General Alvin. Now recognize General Salsman for your remarks. Chairman Calbert, Ranking Member McCollum, distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for your continued support and the opportunity to testify on the Space Force's posture for FY26. Never before in our history has space been more critical to the future of our nation. Satellites underpin our economic prosperity, enabling everything from transportation and communication to agriculture and finance. Space has likewise become the backbone of our national security.
▶ 0:32:08Today's joint force is built around the assumption that space power will be there when needed. GPS allows our forces to mass and maneuver fires. Satellite communications ensure global C2 of our operations. Satellites offer constant vigilance on the battlefield, alerting America's forces of missile launches and adversary action. All of these effects and more are provided by your US Space Force. With about 3% of the DoD budget and less than 1% of the personnel, the Space Force is a great value proposition for the department.
▶ 0:32:39For this tiny fraction of resources, you enable a service that has become indispensable for modern power projection. However, despite the dramatic rise in space threats and the increasing importance of space over the last few budget cycles, the Space Force has experienced shrinking resources. This disconnect between value and investment creates risk for our nation.
▶ 0:32:59Further exacerbating the situation, the Space Force has been asked to accept new responsibilities and missions, forcing tough choices between delayed readiness, reduced capacity or unadressed To illustrate my point, in the past three years, the US Space Force has been asked to take on new missions like ground and air moving target indicator, adding new space control capabilities and taking on additional responsibilities associated with modeling and simulation, force design analytics, and a three-fold increase in launch tempo at our national spaceports
▶ 0:33:29and new advanced training requirements. These requirements have driven the need for increases in instrength, military construction projects, new education and training curriculum, and expanded information technology requirements. The most recent addition to our mission set is the space-based technology associated with the Golden Dome program, which will depend heavily on Space Force sensors, interceptors, data fusion, communication capabilities. These are not modernization efforts or shifts from legacy missions.
▶ 0:33:57They represent new and emerging requirements for missions that have never been accomplished by a military space organization. These new mission areas will require new and stable resources over time to deliver. In FY26, we will have developed the blueprints, laid the foundational ground groundwork to continue these efforts in earnest. If the resources are made available, the Space Force will be postured to use them effectively in pursuit of these critical priority missions.
▶ 0:34:23Space gives us an incredible strategic advantage, but any advantage can become a vulnerability when held at risk. In in the future, defending the homeland will demand that we first defend the satellites that make that defense possible. To be successful in this effort, we must be able to control the space. Protecting our capabilities in space while denying an adversary the ability to use space against us. That in essence is why you have a space force. It is the job of a military service to achieve superiority in the domain. And that's what we do for space.
▶ 0:34:52But if we want a space force that can secure our nation's interests in, from, and to space, we must resource it accordingly. In pursuit of this mission imperative, my priorities have remained consistent, build comprehensive domain awareness, deploy resilient mission architectures, and develop the capacity to hold an adversary space assets at risk. To enhance our situational awareness, we are investing in additional sensors, data fusion capabilities, and the networks to rapidly put this information into decision makers hands.
▶ 0:35:20To ensure our missions are resilient to attack, we are investing in proliferated constellations, investing in launch infrastructure to ensure steady and cost-effective deployment of capabilities and developing protective measures for our satellites and networks. And finally, to hold adversary space assets at risk, we are investing in counterpace systems designed to defeat any attempt to use space capabilities to target our forces or our homeland.
▶ 0:35:43Because of the work we have already done, additional resources given to the Space Force will enable accelerated delivery and expanded capacity in each of these areas. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Space Force's FY26 posture. Our guardians stand at the forefront of the newest war fighting domain. With the support of this committee, I am confident the space force will hold the line and advance our national advantage in space. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Uh thank you. And now begin questions. Each member will be given five minutes to ask questions and answers.
▶ 0:36:13Your timer turned yellow. One minute remaining. I'll recognize myself for the first round of questions. Uh in my opening statement, I highlighted testimony that was given in this very room. I think it was 1977 uh with Admiral Rickover about his concerns about the rapid turnover in program management and lack of technical expertise that uh obviously wrecks havoc on complex technical problems.
▶ 0:36:41It might just as a note uh Admiral Rickover was given I think an order in 1950 to put a nuclear reactor on a submarine uh the Nautilus. He did it in 3 years and launched the submarine. Uh, you know, things were done a little bit quicker in those days. Um, Secretary Ashworth, to what extent do you believe Admiral Rickover is right that the churn in program management is a significant contributor to poor program performance?
▶ 0:37:12Uh, thank you for the question, chairman. Uh so coming from the background that I'm coming from, I've gotten to see this uh a lot a lot over the over my time. Uh I do feel it's it's very important that we have stability and program management as well as the technical component of any program office as they're trying to deliver capability.
▶ 0:37:32Those are the two fundamentals that that need to work hand inand to be able to understand the the engineering that's involved in in a design in developing a system and understanding the risk that needs to be managed a lot of times in the technical area. So very important to try to have stability in those in those in those fundamental jobs. I do believe that the department has looked at this in the past.
▶ 0:37:58I do not know offhand and I can get back to you on this what our current policy is about trying to retain program managers for a length of time especially on our major programs. Um that has been looked at and uh it may actually during this acquisition review that is coming up uh may be one of the things that we should look at again. Yeah. and the nuclear propulsion program.
▶ 0:38:21I believe the uh admiral in charge is given eight years uh as a tenure for the propulsion program. Um I always thought the program managers for some of these highly technical programs should be tie it to some kind of program milestone or deliverable rather than just a set period of years. give them promotions, a regular, you know, career advancement, but it's important to keep these folks in in place.
▶ 0:38:49And the reason why I want to ask this to General Alvin and General Saltzman, uh the whatever rationale there is to rotating personnel in and out of these frequently uh results ultimately in depriving the warfire of of of the program that we're trying to fund. Uh we certainly saw that in the F35. I was there in the beginning and it didn't quite work out the way we expected it to work out.
▶ 0:39:15And u now that we're starting on down the road on the F-47 and obviously Golden Dome, two potentially very extremely technical and expensive programs. Um uh do you believe that we should uh change our our attitude about program managers? Mr. Chairman, I certainly do uh agree that we need to look at these things.
▶ 0:39:39What I would offer is is first I mean obviously Admiral Rickover when you're talking about nuclear reactors, there are very few things that require more of a single depth of technical expertise. I think as we do this we need to understand how to merge the different parts. So you need to have the technical expertise and understand what all goes into the acquisition. There's also a role for a an operational relevance to be fed into this. Maybe not nuclear reactors because you know that's that science is that science.
▶ 0:40:09But when we look at the F-47 specifically, I believe we partially cracked the code on this. Not only in ensuring that we have more stability in the program, but we had operators in there from the beginning. And when you do that, then you understand the operational impact of potential acquisition or technical decisions you might make. So I think there's a blending there and associated with that rather uh than just say the acquisition professionals will stay there 10 15 20 years you touched on it Mr.
▶ 0:40:35Chairman we have to understand how to promote and advance them in a way and be do it in an agile way to where maybe it's not the same as our operational expertise. So I think there's a way of blending those but I I I wouldn't yield only to just having the technical expertise be preeminent without the operational impact and the operator in the technical mix from the beginning. And so I think there's a blend that has to happen there to your point about not rotating through and having a continuity not only of the technical expertise but also of of uh the operational relevance.
▶ 0:41:06Yeah, I'm not advocate necessarily advocating to what Rick over I think he was in charge of the nuclear propulsion program for over 30 years. But certainly what we're doing with some of these highly technical programs has not worked and so we need to determine uh what uh what we may uh uh do in the future. Miss Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:41:28Um, so I want to lay out where we find ourselves with uh as we wait for the full 2026 budget request. We didn't get out our fiscal year 2025 work done on time and that was no fault of the chairman of our full appropriations committee. He was there till the bitter end. We should have negotiated those bills in December or this spring, but the speaker of the house decided he had a different plan.
▶ 0:41:55So that that left us with a full year continuing resolution. 52 days after the president signed the CR into law, DoD and Congress still have not agreed on a plan. We have four months to go before the end of this fiscal year. And as the chairman pointed out, alls we have in front of us is a skinny budget for next So how do we plan for the uh plan for the future?
▶ 0:42:21We don't have this the spend plan for the previous year and we know the numbers in the skinny budget are based on what because of cuts and things that Doge has done as well too. We also hear rumors that the full budget request might not come until June. So how are we supposed to write markup bills under that timeline? Clearly, this budget process is a total mess right now.
▶ 0:42:46The administration's skinny budget shows a freeze in topline discretionary spending for defense, as I mentioned. And the department wants to move, the department's asking us to move between 50 and 60 billion in funding around in the base budget. Just move it. Trust them. So, gentlemen, the time is short. We have very few details on your priorities for next year. So, I'd like you to um talk about some of these projects you're asking for.
▶ 0:43:15The nuclear modernization, Sentinel, which is 80% over budget, the collaborative combat aircraft program, nextgen air dominance, space domain dominance, and then Golden Dome. Now, General Saltzman, you just mentioned some things that you think Space Force is going to be working on that new to me with some of the requirements that you might have.
▶ 0:43:35We're also going to assume uh a 3.8 eight pay raise for the troops will be requested and we don't know if the administration will fully fund the junior enlisted pay an additional three uh.3 billion dollars. So, acting secretary Ashworth, we need more details on the 2026 budget.
▶ 0:43:55Your posture statement talks about combating China, restoring the war ethos, but it lacks a plan for us to look at to react to and have hearings and discussion about. So, it seems like to me the department wants to do everything all at once and obviously that's not possible and we don't know what the priorities for spending or the priorities for actually getting things done in what order. So my question to you is because I don't know, I haven't seen everything.
▶ 0:44:25Do you expect the Air Force to be a donor or a receiver in this budget? And just exactly what do you think the top three priorities we should be focused on that you're going to be focused on in FY26? General Sman, the same question for Air Force. What are your three have must priority programs? And I'm not trying to play stump the band. We just don't have any information. we have to start having discussions amongst ourselves and then with our counterparts in the Senate.
▶ 0:44:56so thank you for the question, ranking member. So I'll start by saying the department is trying to finish up the reook on on the PB26 and get over the request as as soon as we can. Uh we're going through the the final stages of that right now. um from a Air Force perspective, from a Department of the Air Force perspective, we've tried to do our best in this reook to make sure that we're aligned against the interim national strategic guidance.
▶ 0:45:23And so the big priorities that are laid out in that interim national defense strategic guidance are to start out with strategic deterrence, nuclear deterrence, homeland defense, all those coupled. And so if you unpack that a little bit, strategic deterrence, nuclear deterrence, B-21, Sentinel are going to be top on our list to be getting after and making sure that we're fully funding.
▶ 0:45:47If you take a look at the homeland defense side, you're going to be taking a look at the the capabilities that we've already provided Northcom to perform that mission. You're going to be taking a look at uh our operations on the southern border. And then you're going to be taking a look at Golden Dome. The department is working through the final stages of pulling together the concept and and the final initial plan to take up to the secretary of defense on Golden Dome and then take over to the president for for his chop.
▶ 0:46:15Once the president gives the thumbs up, we'll move into the more detailed planning stages. But you can think from that kind of a perspective that that golden dome is going to be a large systems of systems kind of a construct. It will have space sensing, spaceectors. It'll have air sensing, airectors as well as uh ground uh sensing and and ground aectors. All has to be knitted together too by a a C2 and a battle management type of a structure.
▶ 0:46:41So those are the big building blocks that the team is working with to try to construct to present uh to the president and to get a thumbs up on that. And then the next layer down is deter China in the Indepacific. And with that comes our entire force design mix uh in order to be able to counter that threat in in that theater.
▶ 0:47:01And you'll you'll hear things like ENGAD, the next next generation air dominance family of systems which is comprised of F4 the F-47 collaborative combat aircraft and a government own reference architecture has moved forward. Those are the big ticket items. I did read your testimony.
▶ 0:47:19So, uh, but before the other before the other generals, uh, respond, you know, I don't know how I budget on a concept, I I I don't I don't do that in my personal life. I'm certainly not going to do it with the taxpayers's money. And I I know you're trying to provide information, but you can see the quandry we are all in up here.
▶ 0:47:40And um so you expect from your your list you expect in the department of defense then I would say to be a receiver in this budget especially with uh Golden Dome in it not not a donor to the other Yes. I can't for say for sure at the end of the day who will be giving who who will be receiving but we've laid out the priorities and I think the Air Force is in a good position to receive the budget that we need.
▶ 0:48:09I secretary covered it very well. So I uh donor receiver those will be final decisions. I think we've made a very broad case when we were directed to look at how we would prioritize uh some percentage of our budget to rep prioritize to the uh president's priorities. We found that some of those priorities were very similar to things that we were already doing. So uh when we did those our United States Air Force said three things and the first two are tied for first homeland defend and threat uh homeland defense threats in and through the air and twothirds of the nuclear triad.
▶ 0:48:38So secretary said it the things I I would assume that we would get these would be our priorities. This is going to be Sentinel once it's restructured making sure that comes through and all of the associated uh B21 the B-52 those the LRSO those keep the nuclear returns. Second is Golden Dome. whatever Golden Dome turns out to be, there are a few things we're pretty much sure we know. Part of that has to be defense of the homeland from air and cruise missiles.
▶ 0:49:03And so that will be something that not only works for us in the homeland, but the United States Air Force is going to need to scale that overseas. So those technologies, those capabilities are not just going to be boutique for one part of the national security apparatus. So I believe those are going to apply both in the home and expeditionary. So I would see the capabilities as well as the command and control the the architecture that puts it all together that enables us to sense make sense and act. Those sort of things I think will be at the top of the priority list to enable those systems to work.
▶ 0:49:32And then in the power projection, Secretary Ashworth talked about it as well. This is F47. This is collaborative combat aircraft. This is doing the counter China strategy to be able to show that we can penetrate, clear the skies, and enable us to continue to project power into China. So, those those would be the priorities we're looking for. Um, I believe that there's a there's a good place for the uh Air Force to be a receiver rather than a donor, but I also I'm not going to get in front of the administration. Thank you for the question. This is important. I I agree with you.
▶ 0:50:01Um, prolif accelerating proliferated constellations. This is what creates resiliency in our our missile warning architecture and our data transport layer. Uh, it's critical to the joint fight. Right now, they can be easily held at risk by adversary action. The more we proliferate, the more that's a targeting problem. More money means I can deliver that proliferated constellation faster. Second is counterpace capabilities. Uh while we have invested in in the technology associated with them, we haven't built them to the capacity where they can actually hold enough targets at risk.
▶ 0:50:32So not only do we have to invest in the system, but we have to increase the capacity to actually meet the OP plan requirements. So counterspace capabilities and I'm happy to follow up in a classified setting to give you the more details on that. And then lastly is the test and training infrastructure. This is the simulators, the ranges, the digital environment that allows us to test our equipment, make sure the new systems we're bringing on are effective, that our tactics can be validated in a simulated environment, and we give our operators the training they need to be successful. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:51:01Thank the gentle lady, Mr. Cole. Chairman Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thank you. And uh once again I find myself in broad agreement with my friend the ranking member in in terms of the process. We did not get uh honestly a bill done in uh the late post election period and then again in March and I regret that. There's plenty of blame to go around on both sides. I also wish we were getting uh you know full budget faster.
▶ 0:51:31I certainly don't hold any of you gentlemen responsible for that. But and I've had good talks honestly with the administration on you know if you expect us to avoid this next year speed would be helpful in just getting this committee the information it needs. We've had some good cooperation on that skinny budget's helpful.
▶ 0:51:49Uh but um you know obviously particularly this committee of all of them subcommittee uh needs the information the amount of responsibility on both sides of the aisle here for the by far the biggest part of the budget is is pretty awesome and each and every one of these members needs the information to make constructive input and then you know tough decisions. Um, I have a specific couple of specific questions. Retirement uh of the E3 Awax aircraft.
▶ 0:52:18You know, I have Tinker Air Force Base in my district, so we've been following that very closely. I was very pleased to see the E7 contract signed off in August. Um, since we don't have a full budget request yet, we don't know, you know, exactly whether or not the 2026 uh expenditure on that will be adequate.
▶ 0:52:39I will tell you I' I've been concerned and again I put the blame on Congress not on the military but we we've done a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul and come up short in mission capabilities and this is one where you know I don't have to tell any of you gentlemen how old those airframes are and how much this is needed. Uh but we also have space assets that are projected to offer great capabilities to our war fighters. Um some have been delivered some you know obviously in in the process we understand there's a lot of change there.
▶ 0:53:08So, I want to ask, if I may, General Alvin, General Saltzman, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts more about how the Department of the Air Force is thinking about pivoting some missions from aircraft to space. And do you agree that we will still need to maintain air capability up to and perhaps even after space is fully Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that. Uh, and boy, you got that right about the E3. We are using that and it it is continuously in demand.
▶ 0:53:37uh the ability to actually command and control and manage the battle in real time is has never gone away. And so even though we may not be in a major conflict, the ability of the E3 um you know degrading as it is is still is under high demand. And so when we have a fleet of 16 aircraft left with a mission capable rate of about 37% that is a dying platform that has diminishing manufacturing of supplies that just aren't going to come. So this is not something that we can maybe put the paddles to and resuscitate.
▶ 0:54:06to that point, the ability to sense, make sense and act. There are great opportunities as we look into space for more opportunities of ubiquitous coverage and those sort of things uh that that air the airborne layer is becoming more challenged to do because the adversaries pushing us further and further out. However, we have to do more than just sense. We have to sense, make sense, and act. And right now, the E7 is is the platform that delivers what the E3 can with greater capability.
▶ 0:54:32So as the Department of Defense looks through this architecture, whether it be Golden Dome or the architecture in the contested environment, uh it's going to be very important that the migration from air to space covers all of those, the sensing and the makes making sense and the directing. And I I'll yield to to my my brother from space on the things that are available in the near term with respect to sensing from space.
▶ 0:54:53But I think we just need to ensure that we're adequately covering all parts of that as we do the migration before we just go from one domain to another I think General Alvin said it great. I I just add to it that you know space offers a lot of advantages particularly in a contested environment but it isn't necessarily optimized for the full spectrum of operations that your military is going to be asked to do.
▶ 0:55:16And so I think you you'll get unanimous consent by all the chiefs when they say a mix of capabilities to make sure that we can cover a full spectrum of operations and truly offer the Secretary of Defense and the president a full range of operations is the ideal situation. And so no one system is going to be perfectly optimized to take care of the full spectrum of ops. And so that's where I think you need a mix of systems. So just to be very clear as I understand it, you really think we need both an overlap of that those capabilities at least for a time.
▶ 0:55:44That I I certainly believe we need the capabilities from whatever domain or platform or system it comes. We need to ensure we have the resilient to do the sensing making sense of that and acting. Okay. Thank you. Um Secretary Ashworth, just a quick concern. I I know this committee is very focused on frankly the atrophy of our industrial base, the challenges that that presents to the military. We're losing a lot of smaller manufacturers that made components for particularly some of our aging systems.
▶ 0:56:14I believe we have a lot of aging systems at Tinker Air Force Base and those men and women do an unbelievable job keeping 50, 60, 70 year old airplanes uh you know combat ready and operational but uh getting the parts to maintain that or having frankly any predictability when you tear one of those apart what you're going to find. I mean they're so far beyond any lifespan that was predicted or required.
▶ 0:56:38It's it's really I mean these people are much more artisans than they are you know technicians and Um give us some uh idea of how you are looking at additive manufacturing uh you know and other things that might pro produce and let us close some of the gap we have some of our lost industrial Thank you very much uh chairman for that question. So I appreciate it.
▶ 0:57:08So the the previous administration had laid out a national defense industrial strategy on how to actually robust up our our defense industrial base and we're carrying that forward in implementation plans. I'm encouraged to see this administration has taken that up as well. You'll see that in one of the executive orders that are talking about acquisition reform and that includes getting after industrial base to try to to create a more robust resilient uh defense industrial base.
▶ 0:57:33When it comes to advanced manufacturing, additive manufacturing, we're looking at that across the board in the Department of the Air Force right now. Some of those areas that you're talking about trying to get after spare parts, trying to take take a look at diminishing manufacturing sources, those are key areas where we need to continue to to to mature how we're trying to use advanced manufacturing in those areas to get after those issues. Uh, but the list goes on and on and on and we could share more offline with you as I would appreciate that.
▶ 0:58:03I really do think uh and I know Chairman Coward spent a lot of time thinking and look at this. I think we have actually a couple of really unique openings where you might be able to leapfrog pretty quickly and bring down the cost of parts, bring down the cost of munitions, uh bring up the supply of both.
▶ 0:58:23So very much would appreciate the open dialogue and the input from the department on ways we can do that because I I don't think we can do business at normal as usual and get to where we need to be in in a short period of time. So again thank you for working on that with that Mr. Chairman yield back. Thanks and gentlemen going to remind members to please talk directly into the mic for our communication team can write down your testimony. Mr. Square, you're recognized.
▶ 0:58:54Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, ranking member, uh, thank you all for being here. Uh, want to talk a little bit about the southern border, if you don't mind. We just had the secretary of homeland and the men and women in blue and green do a great job, but they're limited. And I think you all can bring another asset. And again, without violating Mexico sovereignty, I know both presidents have been talking about that. There's a lot of things that I think you all can do without violating Mexico sovereignty.
▶ 0:59:24Uh whether it's in um uh ISR communication targeted capabilities, there's a lot of things that you can do and I can go down a list of uh US Air Force assets or Space Force assets. I'm not going to go into that, but I think you know which ones I'm referring to. Uh but you know, some of the things we're seeing is is that you got the Mexican cartels that have a lot of money.
▶ 0:59:49Um and they don't have the same procurement uh rules that you have or or Homeland has. They just, you know, for example, they'll go to Best Buy and buy everything that's there and then just use that. And as an example, how serious some of these things can be. We've been talking about drones, but just a couple weeks ago, uh, a border patrol drone in the Laredo sector in my area was taken down by cartel operators.
▶ 1:00:16Uh, this means that the cartels now have technology that can take down law enforcement, drones, which means that they have a continuous uh side of what Border Patrol is doing. Uh, when they change shifts, everything they got all that. while we're trying to go through some recruitment process.
▶ 1:00:36Uh again, you all have and I'm looking at the list of assets uh uh that y'all can use both from the US Space Force assets and from the Air Force. Can you talk a little bit about that and what you can do because we're trying to help Border Patrol and now that the president wants the military and I think there's a limited role for the military but there's an important role for you all to play and I'll welcome you uh tell us how you can help secure the southern border.
▶ 1:01:08Well, thank you Congressman Quir. I'll speak very briefly from the Air Force side. you know, as the as the organized, train, and equip organization, we really yield to what the combatant commander who has given the overall mission uh looks to do. And so, we uh answer really operationally through our AFN Northorth commander to General Guio, Northcom commander. So, they have put together the plan and they have put together the objectives and all of the criteria and then from then they they solicit and they request forces. And so, we respond to those demands.
▶ 1:01:37And so I I really wouldn't want to get in front of the operational commander who's General Guio. However, as you mentioned, you have a a pretty long list of the forces available and we've made those available and there's a there's a force management process to which they're requested and then we provide them and to date uh you know this is homeland defenses number one as I said.
▶ 1:01:55So, we're uh certainly willing to uh to provide what General Guo needs and so far we've been able to support his requests uh as well as requests of the US transcom commander if that actually becomes in the mobility portion of that. But to date, we've been able to support US nor Northcom as well as the transcom requirements with very minimal and mitigable uh risk to the rest of the global mission for our air force. I I'll just add to that that you know um Space Force is still growing, still an establishment.
▶ 1:02:24We don't quite have service components in all the combatant commands. Uh US Northcom being responsible for the border, we do not have yet a service component in there. But with the critical capabilities that we can provide, I wanted to make sure that that was integrated into the planning. And so we realigned another one of our components to make sure that they were supporting US Northern Command. Uh so we have a threear command now that handles all the space activities, uh handles requests for intelligence information, and that staff has been provided directly to General Guo.
▶ 1:02:52So, uh, he has direct access to all the capabilities that we have to offer and and we've sat down already with General Guo, I think he's going to be fantastic. Uh, as you know, we got Northcom, you got Southcom and how it's divided. Uh, but again, any, you know, from your experience, anything you can provide to general, we really appreciate because everybody talks about the southern border, but, you know, we really have the assets.
▶ 1:03:17I mean, this thing about this drones where now the cartels are knocking down our border patrol and we still haven't reacted to it because we got to go. I mean, those are some of the I can go into a lot more specific issues, but I just wanted to highlight that one out. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Rogers, Chairman Rogers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:03:44Let me follow up briefly with Chairman Cole's line of questions. Mr. Secretary, as China wraps up its aggression in the Indo-Pacific, many here are concerned about our ability to rapidly surge forces uh and material into that theater.
▶ 1:04:12half a world away. Strategic airlift, the backbone of that capability, frankly, is showing some signs of strain. Today, our air airfleet airlift fleet is half the size it was in the 90s, 1990s.
▶ 1:04:37our C5s and aging, flying relentless tempos, and there's no production line to fall back on. Um, what's the Air Force plan to preserve and modernize our strategic airlift fleet when the backbone of that capability is aging, shrinking, and out of production?
▶ 1:05:08Sir, thank you for the question, Congressman. So uh as we took a look at this that global mobility remains a core mission of of the air force and it will always be a core mission of the air force as we move forward and it's an amazing capability that we provide through our our DoD fleets uh augmented by civilian fleets as well through the craft.
▶ 1:05:30And so what we're doing right now is is we're following the normal process and trying to understand the the future threat, trying to understand the demand, and then put it through a capabilities based assessment that'll examine all of that and try to determine what exactly the capability gaps that we need that we're going to need to to close in the future.
▶ 1:05:51From that point, then we're going to follow on into an analysis of alternatives, which is then going to narrow it down for the acquisition uh world as to what we should really be pursuing as our next generation airlift.
▶ 1:06:09um, does this year's budget meaningfully move the needle on maintaining global mobility and lift capacity or are we simply managing the decline of a critical capability? Well, thank you, Congressman. I have to tell you, first of all, it hurt my heart a little bit when you talked about the C17. I was one of the early test pilots on the C17. So, I wrote down that it's aging, shrinking, and less productive.
▶ 1:06:37And I thought, wonder if that reflects on myself as well. But I love that aircraft and and it is it has been used quite a bit because it is an amazing platform as are the airmen who operate it. Uh I've been in contact uh with Johnny Leontaine, the air mobility command commander, talking specifically about this because while it is getting older, it still has a lot of life in it left in it. But that which means now is the time for us to work on it.
▶ 1:07:00So this idea of next generation airlift, we have the opportunity to augment with commercial lift, but but as the secretary mentioned, it's the civil reserve airfleet that can handle certain kinds of cargo, but there are certain kinds of cargo that only the C7 can carry into certain kinds of environments into which it's the only one that can carry it.
▶ 1:07:19So looking at those environments into the future, I think your question about is it moving the needle, I think we're moving the intellectual needle right now because in order to to understand to make the right investment, uh we need to understand what the options are for the future. And so I would say we are looking at it now and it's not too early and if I might this is also one of the areas where there are also other foreign customers who very much like the C7.
▶ 1:07:45So there may be lots of opportunities here for a platform to move forward that provides a capability not only for us but for our allies and partners. And so once again to answer your question I think we are moving forward in the in the development of the con conceptual but we aren't uh breaking or bending metal right now and building new platforms. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you Mr. Casease. Thank you chair.
▶ 1:08:10Um um Secretary Ashworth, um when we when we passed the FY2025 continuing resolution for the rest of this year, Congress also provided funding tables to the Department of Defense. I'm sorry, Ed. Ed is your mic. Yeah, Congress also provided funding tables to the Department of Defense uh setting forth our expectations and instructions on how to spend that money. Are you following those funding tables? Is there any exception to your fund following the funding tables?
▶ 1:08:40Uh I am aware that we've provided the the spend plans as requested and tried to make the best adjustments we could to to make up for the difference between what we were expecting in a budget and a full appropriations compared to what we got through a full year a full fleear continuing evolution uh resolution which was about $4.6 billion less. And so those are those are the issues that as we were moving through this process.
▶ 1:09:06U by the way we appreciate the additional flexibility that that this committee and and Congress put into that continuing resolution that made it a little bit more flexible than our regular continuing resolution. But we still had significant issues on trying to reconcile that $4.6 billion. And so when we provided our spend plan we tried to make the adjustments within appropriation that we could to try to get after those issues. Okay. I think I'm going to take that as a good faith effort to follow the funding tables.
▶ 1:09:36I just wanted to know of any um unknown undisclosed um deviations um from the funding tables of those. Not to my knowledge. Okay, cool. Um I just wanted to follow up on Miss McCullum's questions because I'm also trying to make some sense in anticipation of actually making decisions on this budget u for FY2026 um of of a lot of different things that are going on.
▶ 1:10:00So the first one is we started out the beginning of this year with the instruction to all the services to to at least um come up with a scenario to reduce by 8%. Okay. And presumably all the services went through that scenario. Um then um then what happened next is that you came out with a skinny budget which was level funded which would imply that nobody went through an 8% reduction. um maybe internally.
▶ 1:10:26Um if I'm not mistaken, there's been no allocation of the skinny budget to any of the services. Um so presumably the decision as to actually where you are going to allocate um that skinny budget is still outstanding and that probably plays back into reevaluation of the 8% I would assume.
▶ 1:10:47But you also have a reconciliation uh package which significantly increases uh the budget over and above the regular appropriations process and I'm not aware of that actually being broken out um into services.
▶ 1:11:00I see that some of the services, for example, the army, who's going to be here tomorrow, are um are acting on the assumption that they do not have an increase in that budget um and are actually issuing orders um right now to the force to to um you know to change uh various approaches to comply with that budget assumption.
▶ 1:11:22So, I guess the question really is in all of that fluidity, what's actually happening with your uh department, with the Space Force and the Air Force? Are you still very fluid as to what your final numbers are um in FY 2026 or have you narrowed it down? Are you starting to focus in on 8% savings possibilities or is it going to be an an up or what? Can you just get into a little bit more where you are right now?
▶ 1:11:50Um, so at this point in time, we've been continuing to work internal to the building on deliberations on exactly what you've been talking about. Uh, what what is going to go into the final budget? And the budget, as I understand, is going to be two parts in our request. It's going to be a mandatory uh spending and and discretionary spending. And so there will be an appropriations piece and a reconciliation piece as part of the request that we're making. And so we're going to Is there an allocation of the reconciliation as between the services?
▶ 1:12:20I have not seen an allocation to us, but there is absolutely work going on within the building to allocate um resources against one or the other as as we move through this. Okay. So if the reconciliation bill came before Congress tomorrow um and um had um you know had a request for that what is itund and some odd billion of extra money on the mandatory side through reconciliation we we would have trouble actually splitting that up right now.
▶ 1:12:50I mean I that's what I'm interpreting you saying. My understanding when you receive the budget from from OM and it comes through the department is that it will be broken out for you as to what is in the appropriation and what is in the the reconciliation part of those bills. Okay. And can you can you say right now and if you can't that's fine. Can you say what the net effect is for the Air Force? What what kind of shooting target should be we be we anticipating here?
▶ 1:13:18I I cannot say right now before the budget is released. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Wmac. Yeah. Thank you. Uh thanks to to the gentleman for uh being here today as witnesses. And um I'm going to follow up on Mr. Casease's remarks here in just a second.
▶ 1:13:40Uh, but General Lowen, thank you very much for your time the other day when we talked a little bit about uh project in my district uh the FMS mission for the F-35 and our allies and partners who are going to be rotating through Fort Smith, Arkansas to see our worldclass facilities and our worldclass airspace. We're we're excited to have Germany, Singapore, Poland, Finland, Switzerland, Greece, and the Czech Republic in the years to come.
▶ 1:14:07Uh but in the meantime, Congress has to do its job and our job this the job of this appropriations committee is to you know fund the discretionary side of government to include national defense. I'm a little skeptical about the fact that we've partnered the reconciliation with the base defense bill that could be problematic.
▶ 1:14:34But I'm curious from your standpoint, what capabilities are threatened by the inability of Congress to actually execute an FY26 appropriation bill on time? Um and and how does this impact uh you know the the core mission of our of your air force and our ability to project power and demonstrate uh dominance as we often have.
▶ 1:15:04Well, Congressman, uh thanks for the question and also I really appreciate the dialogue. As you know, we we have our first two graduates coming up this week from Ebing. And uh if I could share with the with the committee that um I talked to this Singapore air chief last week, he said, "We came looking for a place to train our F-35 pilots and an Ebing. We found a home." So that speaks to the community. That speaks to a very capable installation and we we looking for the uh success into the future.
▶ 1:15:32It is hard, Congressman, to nail down a specific program that that may be uh impacted. It's the It's the accumulation of all of it. It's the uh inability for predictability of the funding that enables us to have weapon system sustainment that year overyear we can have the uh the workforce u predictability that will enable us to understand we can ingest the certain number of aircraft into depo maintenance that will allow the long-term readiness.
▶ 1:16:03So it is the accumulation of the lacks of lack of flexibility and funding as part of it to be able to respond to the fact that we don't have a predictability. So if we don't have predictability through an appropriation, we would certainly be helped by having more flexibility as we adjust to whatever the new methodology is by which we get resources.
▶ 1:16:22So it's I think in just in general the the lack of a predictability makes it harder for also for others maybe to rely on us for industry to rely on us as that reliable partner to generate the innovation that chairman Calvert has talked about and inject ingest that into our force. So I think it's overall the the the lack of being a good reliable partner.
▶ 1:16:41Now we're not faultless in that either, but I think having the the predictable appropriations to where outside industry, startups, innovative companies that want to come and be able to add to a new innovative air force that can adapt to disruptive technology and exploit that in the air domain. That I think is something that we're missing. It's an opportunity cost.
▶ 1:17:02I think Congressman, speaking of opportunity cost, um if I can piggyback on on top of the the budgeting issue, recent article says that you're carrying about 20 to 30% excess that along with the maintenance of of that infrastructure help this committee understand what opportunity costs are not being met because of
▶ 1:17:32that excess Thank you, Congressman. And I've mentioned it and I I just use this opportunity for clarifying. I I am not um I I appreciate that in the last NDAA there's a there's um an interest in ensuring that we that we have the facilities and the places where airmen live and work be quality and safe.
▶ 1:17:54It is the fact that our air force has reduced uh by some 40 50% in the number of airmen and the number of platforms that we've lost over the last 30 years but we've only lost 15% in number of installations. So we are carrying 23% uh excess we call vertical infrastructure buildings and structures where we we don't need to to have that workspace and about 60% in some areas excess pavement and ramp. So all of that goes against a bill with which we need to to to keep it uh up and running that we're not using.
▶ 1:18:25And if we're going to have to spend twice as much on that that's not helping airmen that's more that's too much tail and not enough tooth. So the opportunity cost is the ability to provide more actual combat capability. Now I understand that that it can be perceived as a B is a is a terrible thing and we'll all go to our it does not have to be a B. I would love to work with Congress to see if there are ways we can incentivize rather than going peace mill and having the wing commanders work with the local communities.
▶ 1:18:52Can we collectively incentivize opportunities for installations or things on federal property where where maybe Congress can help others maybe use that infrastructure and get it off our books because then we can actually reapply those resources to actual combat capability. Thank you. I yield back. A point that Mr. WAC made the was brought up. Nobody likes continuing resolutions around here.
▶ 1:19:19But, uh, I was talking to the Secretary of the Army this morning and, uh, obviously we've got to get these these budget submissions in and and, uh, as rapidly as possible. I think the chairman wants us to get some of these bills done by the end of June. It's the middle of May right now, folks. And so, uh, I would hope that we can get some information here as soon as possible. Um, Miss Lee, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:19:47Thank you, ranking member, and uh thank you all for being here. Uh General Alvin, it was nice chatting with you last week. Um we talked took some time to talk about the quality of life issues about the airmen uh con that they're confronting at Creech Air Force Base which is only going to be compounded uh by the addition of the 500 plus uh service members hopefully as part of the uh collaborative combat aircraft uh coming to Creech.
▶ 1:20:17And um I just wanted to uh confirm that I can receive your commitment to follow up with my team within the next uh 4 months on the status of putting together any necessary documentation. Uh my understanding is we need 1391 some unfunded uh requirement documents that would allow me to be advocate advocate uh on behalf of Creech. um going forward, Congresswoman. AB: Absolutely.
▶ 1:20:47And as a matter of fact, it's actually exciting what's going on at Creech. But your point is the right one. We need to make sure that while they're doing exciting work, the these are these are airmen who are coming in in a brand new experimental operations unit, they're going to teach the rest of the Air Force how to operate, how to maintain, how to sustain our collaborative combat aircraft. So, we need to make sure they're doing it in a great working environment. And so, the environmental impact studies to ensure that we have the proper uh child care. We talked about the healthcare availability.
▶ 1:21:14Those sort of things that is all part of that basing process that we will ensure we have the clear requirements and and understand what the um what the demand signal will be for the quality of life to support their quality of work. Thank you. Yeah.
▶ 1:21:28just you know for the remainder of the committee as we transition to unmanned aircraft being at the center of uh our defense uh Creech is crit Nevada is critical but Creech in particular and uh that base is really lacking in terms of support for airmen and it really does take a toll um on them having to travel for health care, child care, housing, etc. So thank you for that commitment.
▶ 1:21:57Um I just want to I have one more question that um you uh this is uh for Mr. Ashworth uh the secretary the department of defense state uh is stated to target to reduce the civilian population uh of our civilian employees 60 to 70,000 50 I don't somewhere in that range uh to date this has been via the hiring freeze can you explain what that impact has been and
▶ 1:22:27do you believe that you have the excess manpower to withstand these cuts Um, so thank you for the question, Congresswoman. So as we're going through the execution of presidential actions, executive orders, we're trying to lean forward as as much as we possibly can in implementing them, but we're trying to balance that along the way. Right? Some of these are providing good opportunities.
▶ 1:22:52The DRP or deferred uh resignation program are providing opportunities for our folks to take advantage of it. But we're trying to be mindful of readiness and the mission as we go through those processes. So we have been given some tools along the way to to make exemptions and we're trying to make those smart exemptions to balance that equation. I don't have any target specifically on how many you know billets that we really need to to remove at the end of the day.
▶ 1:23:20What we have initiated as well as is a look at our entire structure or and go through a reorganization and an optimization of the structure. And what we plan to do is as we work through these processes is to reconcile both of those together looking for efficiencies as we're going through the restructure and those marry those up to to the to the uh processes that we're already following as as we lose people through some of these efforts. Yeah.
▶ 1:23:47You know, I I just honestly feel for you because as the ranking member said, taking a hatchet versus a scapple on top of our already our pressure for recruitment and retain retainment on top of modernizing it's it really seems almost like an impossible task and uh I would like for uh you to expound on is there anything this body can be doing to help you achieve chieve the goals
▶ 1:24:18that you have. Uh, no, I think we're in good shape right now to continue to work through these processes all the way through the end. We'll continue to maximize the use of exemptions to try to make sure that we're keeping our readiness and and trying to keep our missions intact. Uh, but until I finish that exercise of trying to take a look at how the the we're going to optimize our organization, I won't have a clean picture as to where that leaves us in in balancing those those two variables Thank you.
▶ 1:24:48I'm I'll yield. Thanks, gentle lady and Mr. Anderhalt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a couple of questions. Uh uh General Susman, uh back in April of 203, US Space Command outline requirements for sustained space maneuver and uh dynamic space operations and set the target for an operational demonstration by 2026.
▶ 1:25:15Um can you speak to as how the space force uh plans to meet the uh US space command target for an operational demonstration of sustained space maneuver and dynamic space operations by that deadline? Yes sir. Thank you. Uh we have uh on contract uh a demonstration uh of a refueling shuttle, a propellant dep depot and satellites we call Tetra 5 satellites. tetramine. They have arms. They have refueling arms.
▶ 1:25:46Uh that demo is scheduled to launch in 2026. We think that'll show a lot of positive results in terms of collecting the data on which of these types of capabilities, which of these types of technologies is most fruitful um for the uh enduring mission. Uh we think it'll be very positive. We're following that up with a second demo in in 2027, which is actually five more different types of technologies associated with refueling on orbit.
▶ 1:26:12Again, the purpose is to collect the data, determine which ones are best, what standards we like, what uh interfaces are are most productive so that we can continue to invest in that technology. So, we're on track for 2026. Okay. Thanks. And with the certification of ULA's Vulcan uh rocket on March 26th, uh we now have multiple viable space options for the allimportant national security space launch mission.
▶ 1:26:39Uh can you talk a little bit about the importance of competition uh within space uh as a driver for both innovation and a source of res Well, I I I think I'm preaching to the choir when I say competition is in the benefit of the government. Uh it it helps drive innovation. It helps drive cost down. But from my perspective, from my seat, it also creates resiliency in the architecture. It's my job to make sure we have assured access to space.
▶ 1:27:07If I have multiple companies that can help us deliver capabilities on orbit, I feel more comfortable that we have resilient architecture to put that in place. That's resiliency against any particular system that might have an anomaly where you would ground the system. We have alternates, we have backups. Uh if a company has problems, we have alternates, we have backups. So the resiliency in the launch infrastructure is just as important as the competition driving the cost down is to me. Thank you.
▶ 1:27:31Oh, and just let me uh Secretary Ashworth uh thank you for your service in this role as you uh and we look forward to continue to work with you but also ultimately with the secretary uh once confirmed uh or the next secretary is confirmed.
▶ 1:27:45Um given that this is an oversight hearing uh I want to close by just u bringing your attention to a persistent issue and as you well know the United States Space Command was established more than six years ago and it's been basically homeless ever since despite the Air Force has identified Redstone Arsenal in North Alabama as the preferred location uh back in January of 2021.
▶ 1:28:14and um the service has yet to designate a permanent location. However, uh I look forward to working with you and the incoming uh secretary to finalize the the basing decision that was validated by the inspector general. In a budget constrained environment, it's uh clear that Alabama is more cost-effective and we have the brain power and the robust defense industry that is able, that is willing, and is ready to support Space Command.
▶ 1:28:43and I look forward to working with this administration uh to bring us back on track and support our guardians and war fighters in this critical domain. And uh so I thank you for that. Look forward to working with you and I yield back. I already thought they made a decision to move to Alabama. We're going to call it to Shelby Airbase. Yeah. Miss Captor, you're recognized. Thank you very much for your testimony today.
▶ 1:29:13Uh, General, uh, Alvin, I have two questions for you. Uh, one for Secretary Ashworth and one for uh, General Saltzman. Uh, the two questions are for the general. Um recently we read about the uh press reports the uh on the battlefield when the Ukrainians took down a Russian SU27 with a drone.
▶ 1:29:40I'm curious how you looked at that and if you agree it was a revolution and why. Uh secondly, um I'm wondering if you can describe uh to me recently the president made a trip to Michigan and announced that uh we were going to have a new F15 EX fighter uh uh installation there.
▶ 1:30:06How will that relate to Ohio and the 180th Fighter Wing that I represent at our National Guard? Is there any connection? That is an F16 unit. We tried to get F-35s, but they said we weren't close enough to a training base. So, those are two questions. And then, um, uh, for, uh, Secretary um, uh, Ashworth, what are your thoughts? How do you think about the state of our defense industrial base in this country?
▶ 1:30:37Uh and your critical workforce and production shortages that you face. And finally uh of General Saltzman, when can we expect to receive a detailed budget uh related uh to our committee um that for 2026? Um you've got the issue with Space Force. I don't even know what Golden Dome is. Maybe you can explain that in a written reply, but um uh when do you think that we would be able to get a budget uh through the department?
▶ 1:31:04So, General uh Alvin first. Thank you, Congressman. Congresswoman, so in the the two questions, first of all, the drone shooting down an SU27, I don't know that I would call it as much of a revolution as it's a wakeup call. We need to understand that there are different platforms in on the battle space uh and the manner in which we use the aircraft that we have the manner in which we have our operational concepts for aerial warfare need to adapt to this new reality.
▶ 1:31:31So I think I wouldn't take it as that one thing changes everything but it certainly reflects the disruptive technology that can find its way onto the battle space and it it uh requires our wrapped attention to make sure that we're responding to it in all environments. to the second on the on the F-15 EX. Uh that was a presidential decision and that decision uh was uh was in in order to replace the uh fighter mission that was going away with the A-10.
▶ 1:31:59I do not see any um impact on that with anything going on Ohio on the 180th. Thank you very much, Secretary Ashworth. Okay. Uh I think your question was around the defense industrial base. How do you think about it? Yeah. So um it's constricted over time. Everybody knows that story for over the last uh decades.
▶ 1:32:23And so we need to continue to do what we can to continue to grow the defense industrial base to try to make it more robust and resilience because that effectively just is in our best interest because we'll we'll grow competition and we'll we'll benefit from that in the in the government side.
▶ 1:32:40Uh in addition to that though, we've we've gotten brittle in certain parts of our defense industrial base and we need to be very mindful of understanding what those supply chains look like and so that we can target those areas that are truly national defense related so that we can we can make sure that we have additional suppliers in those areas as we move forward and those would be domestic suppliers. Uh preferably domestic suppliers. Yes. Yes. Our region has suffered greatly from this. the uh the uh industrial heartland of America.
▶ 1:33:10So I would urge you to look at the defense industrial uh provisions that are in the law right now and try to make them more robust as you move forward with your budget. Thank you very much. And just one answer from uh General uh Saltzman. I wish I had the answer to when the budget was going to be available. I do not. Uh I I don't feel comfortable even saying uh you know guessing what the timeline might be. If it was based on the number of meetings that we're having to try to get the budget in order, I would think it would be imminent. uh or having a lot of discussions on on the budget itself.
▶ 1:33:40But uh there are several wickets outside the Department of Defense that would have to go through before it comes over. But uh with regards to Golden Dome, I would just add uh think about it not as a single system, but a system of systems. And so you'll see several different contributing capabilities that under the umbrella of Golden Dome. So I think that's probably a better way to think about as it comes over. Thank the gentleman, Mr. Carter. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:34:11General Alvin, pardon my my voice. It's going away. Uh, the Air Force continues developing agile compat uh combat concepts for an in the endoc endopan theater.
▶ 1:34:32I'd like to ask you about a specific investment and capability being prioritized to improve camouflage, concealment, and deception. And in particular, can you walk us through the strategic the strategies you are using to enhance multiple spec spectral signature management?
▶ 1:34:54This is a critical issue especially when it comes survivability from our expeditionary expeditionary forces that will be in the Pacific. I've also heard about deployable hangers that can support multi-p special signal management. Are those capabilities ready to be fielded? And do you think these resources are things you need to get deployed quickly?
▶ 1:35:25Congressman, I can answer the last question first. Yes. Yes. These are things we definitely the, as you mentioned, when people think historically of CCND, camouflage, concealment, and deception. We think of, you know, uh, things shaped like hangers or things shaped like airplanes to fool the adversary. The point that you bring up is the important one. It's no longer just the physical deception and the physical camouflage and concealment across the electromagnet magnetic spectrum.
▶ 1:35:53That's how more and more the adversaries are being able to identify our capabilities. So being able to manage our signals, confuse them with where they think it's something and it's actually something else. That is more critical. It is also very much more agile too. So getting those fielded capabilities are absolutely critical. They are not the only solution. We still do have to have the ability to hide from sight. We do also have under agile combat employment, we have to have the ability to have some point defense. So when the when the missiles come in, we got to be able to kill them with something.
▶ 1:36:23So all of those come together, but your point is the right one. This electromagnetic spectrum management has become more and more key to our ability to survive and operate in an agile way. We really look forward to as as them they continue to mature, we also need to exercise them and test them. And that's what we're also doing big exercise this summer. But I couldn't agree more that those are the types of capabilities that will enhance our our survival and make this agile combat employment a real thing.
▶ 1:36:50So basically you're you're ready to do it as you get it put it put together. Absolutely. And but to say it's got to be part of a family of systems to protect but it's a key part of that family. Yeah. I I was very impressed by what they can do. Uh also I want to ask you about the fact that the uh we're keep we're very aware of the fact that the reserve component is asked to do much more to our for our nation's defense.
▶ 1:37:18And with that said, are we we recently with public com uh public comments by you and other air force leaders stated we need to have a larger air force to defend our nation and execute national defense strategy.
▶ 1:37:34How can the Air Force Reserve retain experienced pilots, ma maintainers, and combat support personnel to defend America as well as meet the NSD requirements unless the Congress and Pentagon leaders provide the necessary amount of equipment and aircraft?
▶ 1:37:57Is the Air Force exploring options to equip the operational fighter units with sun setting missions like the A10 and with other airframes. So, Congressman, that goes back to my I do believe that more air forcees is better. And so, in order to be able to do that, we have to ensure that when we we we we maintain the capability of having the deployability and the accessibility.
▶ 1:38:24I think what the Air Force reserves and the Air National Guard offer is that experience, is that instant proficiency and so making sure we equip all the Air Force uh with uh the the modern capabilities that are required to deploy is going to be key. Um it really is about dollars. I would love to be able to have the active force and the reserve force because as you mentioned, Congressman, this is not the reserves of 30 years ago. They're operating with us.
▶ 1:38:48They are actually uh looking to do the same sort of organ organizational unit of action construct model that we're going to so they can deploy just as rapidly as the active force. It really just is about dollars to be able to ensure we outfit everybody with the most modern kit and make sure the opportunity costs don't come with Thank you. Thank you, Judge, Mr. Rally. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the ranking member for the hearing and certainly thank you to our witnesses for uh your service.
▶ 1:39:17I want to begin uh uh Secretary Ashworth and General Alvin uh and and take a moment to uh remember Major Terry Braymond from my district in Rochester, New York uh who tragically lost his life in the CV22 Osprey uh crash off the coast of Japan in November of 2023.
▶ 1:39:36I had the um solemn honor of visiting Yakakota Air Force Base uh and meeting with Colonel Melanie um three weeks ago where Major Braymond was um was stationed and I saw firsthand the strength and professionalism of the airmen and uh from his unit who continue to serve uh and serve in his memory. The platform itself has had some troubling safety uh record and I understand that work is ongoing.
▶ 1:40:01Um but after multiple fatal incidents, fair to ask what changes are being made uh to the platform. So I wonder what specific actions the Air Force has taken to address known mechanical and design concerns and how you're working to maintain confidence with the troop the crew and uh who fly these aircraft. Well, Congressman, not only thank you for the question, but thank you for uh publicly calling out the family.
▶ 1:40:25It's easy for us to move on and we see a tragedy and off we go to the next thing, but it reminds us that while we're working on the next day's issue, um those scars endure for the family and for the unit as well. So, thank you for reminding us and being our conscience on that.
▶ 1:40:40Uh, with respect to the CV22 itself, uh, I have, uh, ultimate confidence in our Air Force Special Operations Command Commander, Lieutenant General Mike Connley, working with the the Navy, the Nav Air Systems Command Commander, Admiral Chbby, uh, to ensure that we're finding the right material solutions. And in the proper gearbox issue, we are looking to purchase those and retrofit uh, those on the the platforms. But let's let's take it from Gundam 22 till now.
▶ 1:41:07uh the uh Air Force Special Operations Command went down to the bare bones and looked at from air crew proficiency because the Air Force uses the CV22 differently than the Marine Corps and the AR and the and the Navy do. And so because they're used for more special operations infill and X-fill operations, uh they require really more specialized expertise on the crew and more uh attention paid to the maintenance. So we needed to make sure we were doing everything possible.
▶ 1:41:34So, we have more confidence in our ability to deliberately um account for everything that's going on in the maintenance and our crew proficiency. So, there it's part of that's just increasing confidence. On the material side, we're working with NAVAIR and and getting those uh those weapon systems back up to par so we can confidently use them in the way the special operations community needs them. So, they they continue to perform well, but this is a it's it's an it's an aircraft that has a unique capability in operating in dangerous environments. Yeah, I don't know, Mr.
▶ 1:42:04Secretary, if you had anything to add to that. Uh, no, just on on that topic. The the gearbox is effectively what the the problem is and what the root cause of the situation is. And we're very close to working with the Navy of putting a contract in place that will start the removal and the replacement of those gear boxes. I think will actually happen this month or next. And then we'll be in a a pace of being able to remove and replace about three of those a month as we move forward. Well, I appreciate that very much.
▶ 1:42:33If I might, uh, Secretary, uh, Stratton Air National Guard base, the home of the 109th, uh, airlift wing, the only unit in the United States military, I believe, flying the LC, uh, 138 uh, skirs, which are critical to our national security uh, operations and scientific research both in the Arctic and Antarctic. Um, and the aircraft, I think, are over five decades old. I've had the chance to to be on board one.
▶ 1:42:59uh constant need of maintenance, risking mission mission readiness and uh air crew safety. And given the strategic importance of the polar operations and operational limitations of the LC 13H's, can you just share with me the Air Force's long-term plan to fully recapitalize the fleet and ensure uninterrupted um US leadership in the polar regions? Yes, thank you, Congressman, for that question. So, as I've taken a look at this, I'm not familiar with with that mission, but I'd love to see it someday.
▶ 1:43:28Um, as as we take a look at those those aircraft, they are aging, but as of right now, in a fiscally constrained uh environment, we can't do too much for those aircrafts that themselves right now. But we are actually initiating the the beginnings of the acquisition process to do that capabilities based assessment for that entire area. and that will then inform us as to what the true need is, what the gaps are, and then how we can initiate a replacement into the future.
▶ 1:43:54Well, I appreciate that and I'd love to continue to work with you and uh and and the department. I know they're cannibalizing parts and it's it's really put a strain on their ability to be successful and I know what is a uh strategically important part of the world and they are unique in their ability to fly to it. So, uh thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Just a a point on that. Uh, Major Enrath came from Riverside, California, so right outside of my congressional district.
▶ 1:44:21He was flying at B22, the Osprey. Uh, I'm just curious since the the issues been brought up. Obviously, we've stopping production on the F-22, moving to the Army program, Flora, is uh do you envision the Air Force, other services uh uh buying into that program? Obviously that we're going to have to retire the Osprey eventually.
▶ 1:44:47You believe you'll having modified versions going to the Air Force and special forces and Navy Marines? Uh chairman, that may be something we're going to need to work with with SOCOM. It certainly isn't the higher priority in our force design and in a budget constraint environment where we're thinking about the I'm saying long term. You think that would be I direction you might go? I I certainly think it's it's worth looking into. We we don't have that on on top of mind right now, but certainly it's it's something to look into. Thank you, gentlemen.
▶ 1:45:16Thank you for the question, Mr. Elseie. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, ranking member. Thank you all for being here. I'd like to start out by thank uh uh seconding chairman Calvin Calbert's sentiments on the program managers needing long-term that's that's the way to solve this problem at least in the short term. But additionally, until we supersede Goldwater Nickels, until we scrub it and we fire a bunch of minions at the Pentagon, make the Pentagon a triangle.
▶ 1:45:41Um, right now the acquisitions process is like going on a cross country with your family. You're going from Galveston to Dallas and you have to go through Houston and you got yourself unfortunately a minivan. And you got your minivan, you have to stop through Houston and every five minutes you have to stop for a minute at a stoplight. And at that stoplight there's a trollman and he says, "I need a hundred bucks and you need to take that passenger." So by the time you're out of Houston, you're overloaded, you're out of money, and you're broken. So you cancel the project.
▶ 1:46:10So we need a loop road around Houston. And in the near term, as we watch our budgets come come down relative to actual spending and and and until we get to 5% of GDP, we need the OSD, the COCOMs and the chiefs of staff to be able to work together specifically on emerging technologies so they can work faster on a block grant basis and get these emergency tech these uh emerging technologies out the door a heck of a lot faster. So, I was noticing thank you all for being here.
▶ 1:46:39It's your CVs are outstanding. Uh, General Alvin, you're astron astronautical engineer. That's from Air Force. I mean, you're the poster child, poster boy, I guess I should say. Uh, Secretary Ashworth, you are an electrical engineer. Uh, and that's just incredible. And then somebody had fun at college and it was you and and you went to study history at Boston and and had a good time.
▶ 1:47:09And so I I just I I just thought that that was interesting that you're the space comm space force commander and you studied history. But I also want to point out that you two were were missileers. An incredibly hard job. I wouldn't want to do it. I couldn't be capable of doing it. So thank you for doing that. But I'd also like to point out uh General Saltzman, I don't know if it was intentional or not, but your profile photo makes you look like Buzz Lightyear. And I think it's absolutely appropriate.
▶ 1:47:33General Alvin, thank you for taking the time to talk to me about the F-47 a while back and the need for future air superiority and for the joint force to have sixth generation fighters. So, kind of a leading question, but would you say that the current mix of the fifth gen uh F-35 across the Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps provides a needed capability and important options for our CO comps? Yes, it does. And of course once we get to the block four and all those capabilities that really unlock it into the future, it's going to be that much more capable.
▶ 1:48:03But we got to get through TR3 on block 4 to really make it the platform it should be. Okay. Well, with that in mind, can you think of any reason why we shouldn't have a similar cross service capability, Gen 6 capability in the Navy? I think uh to that there are different requirements that the Navy would use it for.
▶ 1:48:20So this is specific and I'll say as much as I can at this classification level but when you look at the the the outer mold line design that is uh which you know even the the F-35 has difference between the A's, B's and C's and those that launch off carriers have to have you know more sturdy landing gear structure so they can they can go off the cat and come back to to the carrier.
▶ 1:48:40So there are some design differences and when that comes to the high level sophistication of sixth generation, one needs to look at the outer mold design uh differences and what that might provide for divergence capabilities. Having said that, the secret sauce of what we're doing uh going forward and Chum and Calbert sort of referenced the fact that maybe the F-35 wasn't the best way looking back on how we're doing things, but we we put that together when we did. Now we own the government reference architecture. We own the mission systems.
▶ 1:49:10There is so much tech that is shared. There are so many of the systems that are shared between the Air Force and the Navy program, both of them moving forward, that those will, I think, always be common and those will allow us to accelerate both programs a lot better. And we were talking earlier about the defense industrial base, allowing more to play in that because we own the government reference architecture. When it comes to the outer mold line, that will be different because the different environment in which they operate. Got it. Okay.
▶ 1:49:35Well, I think for for China, as we as we focus on China, we we all have to recognize that the F-47 brings increased speed and increased range. It's going to get the air force in the fight in the Indopaccom. The V22 puts the Marines in the fight in the Indopaccom region. Fla puts the Army in the fight, and without Fleer, they are not in the fight in the Indopaccom. Likewise, no FAXX, the Navy's not in the fight because we have outstick the enemy. And we do that with a Gen 6 fighter.
▶ 1:50:04And until we get an improved tanker, which we absolutely must have in the Indopaccom, we are limiting ourselves. And at no time in our nation's history have ever gone an advanced generation with one service and not the other. So, thank you for your answers. Thank you for being here. Gentlemen, I yield back. Thank the gentlemen. Um, Mr. Fleshman, you're next. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:50:32Ashworth, General Alvin, and General Saltzman for taking the time to come before us today. I would like the entire uh subcommittee to know that General Saltzman was kind enough to visit my hometown of Chattanooga last week to be the grand marshal of the longest running uh armed services parade in the United States, 76 years running and as a first for the first time as we honored the Space Force.
▶ 1:50:59So, General, you were a hit and I thank you so much for that visit. Um, I've got some questions. Uh, first of all, challenges to the Sentinel program dealing with the cost projections and the timeline of that ICBM program. As most of you all know, I'm chairman of the energy and water subcommittee of appropriations. U, NSA's Y12 security complex is in my district. So, I realize the highest priority of this program.
▶ 1:51:30Um, we've seen major delays and setbacks, so I'm going to try to uh condense my questions. Acting Secretary Ashworth, can you provide this committee with an update on the program's current status and what changes are being implemented to get the program schedule back on track and even pulled back to the left? And as a followup, uh, we are modernizing all three legs of the triad.
▶ 1:51:54We we were um we well as our as well as our NC3 and nuclear security enterprise. At the same time, the new start treaty is set to end next year. How is the air force ensuring that we do not have a gap in our coverage during the period of growing strategic risk? Thank you for the question, Congressman.
▶ 1:52:17So um I want to just first uh state by the department stands behind the nuclear deterrence and our nuclear modernization programs and so that that remains a commitment and a strong commitment. Um the Sentinel program non mccerti it did it had a critical non mccertie breach last year and so during that time the department goes through a very thorough review process of the entire program to make sure that it's in still a national security value.
▶ 1:52:45We assess the the requirements on that program. We assess options that we might be able to follow in actually doing that in a different way. And then we also take a look at the root causes that actually manifested into the the breach itself. We came out of that and uh then followed the law and we pulled that program back into its previous acquisition phase. So that's where the program is right now. So what does the program do?
▶ 1:53:11First, it continues on with those elements in the design and development phase that will remain unaffected while we restructure the rest of the program to get after those root causes that caused the breach. And so, think about that from the the the biggest piece of that as the missile itself will continue going through its design and development phase as we move forward. The main contributors to the to the cost breach itself were the command and launch segment.
▶ 1:53:38Think about those as the LFS that house the missile and the launch control centers that that uh command the launch and and and have our missile missiles in them. It's the construction costs associated with with those elements that really drove up the cost. And so the program right now is reaching out to industry to understand how we might better uh uh construct a program on how to get after that particular segment.
▶ 1:54:05They've reached out collecting the information from from industry and by the end of the summer they should have collect enough information, analyzed it and put it back together to see if we're going to stay with the current acquisition strategy or significantly change it. I imagine we're significantly going to change it. based upon that strategy, we're going to be trying to pull that that schedule left as as as we continue to to march forward on the program. Thank you, sir.
▶ 1:54:30Um, in my remaining minute, the K um 135 has been service for about 60 years, sir. The Air Force is now transitioning to KC46, which also includes important decisions on new basing requirements. Uh, this deals with our tanker fleet. Since I don't believe the projected tanker fleet over the next decade is sufficient to sustain a major prolonged war in the western Pacific, what would be necess what would be the necessary number that we should be targeting?
▶ 1:55:03I would just say that uh the that demand signal is derived through the transcom commander uh US transportation uh commander who looked to the Indopaccom uh war plan and looked at it and so they have set up the they have their uh their MCS which is their their mobility capability study and that drives the number of tankers and number of strategic airlift and so they're in currently in the number in in the raw number about 465.
▶ 1:55:31So they they are between the KC46 and the KC135 recapitalization. We're still driving towards that transcom drive number. And as we look further into the the buy of the recapitalization, this is where the next generation air refueling system study will tell us whether we need a new tanker altogether or tankers that have better survivability mechan mechanisms on them. So really dries from the US transportation command requirement. Thank you, sir. My time's expired. I'll yield back. Since Mr.
▶ 1:56:00Fleshman brought up the KC46, all the bugs have been worked out on the uh on the KC46. It's working optimally, not optimally. We have five uh CAT one deficiency reports. Uh two of them have to do with the remote visibility system. I was with the uh chairman of Boeing Defense uh a week ago to go over each one of them. One of them has to do with the mass drain. One of them has to do with the with the uh sort of the the sticky the stiff boom operator or the boom. And one of them has to do with the environmental control system.
▶ 1:56:29I am very much sitting next to the air mobility command commander with the Boeing defense CEO to go through each of those line by line. It is producing. It is it can refuel all uh uh receivers except for uh the A10 and uh the E7 because we just haven't tested against that. So it is capable. It's not optimal yet. How long is that going to take before you get to where you need to be?
▶ 1:56:51the the late the latest estimate on the the the pacing item is the remote visilation system which again it's operating it's just not operating as we would expect it to. We're probably looking at another 18 months. Okie do. Uh Mr. Valdeo, thank you chairman. Um thank you Secretary Ashworth, General Alvin and General Saltzman for testifying before this committee today.
▶ 1:57:17Secretary uh Ashford and uh General Alvin, I want to raise urgent concerns about the F-15X beddown uh plan and the future of the 144th Fighter Wing in California. I know we've talked about this and I I know others are talking about it as well. Um but will the decision to base the F-15 EX and Selfridge Air National Guard impact the Air National Guard's wings currently stated to receive new F-15 EXs, including the 144th Fighter Wing?
▶ 1:57:46Thank you for the question, Congressman, and thank you for the time yesterday. Um, so the president has made the decision to buy additional F-15 EXs and to to outfit Selfridge Air National Guard with those EXs um to continue the fighter mission at Selfridge. Uh, our next step in that process is to do the detailed planning uh on on the implementation and exactly how we're going to to perform that. Um, there will be a flow out.
▶ 1:58:14We will do a detailed flow out of of where we're going to to to put F-15 EXs after they're coming off the the production line. And I I can say to you right now that there is likely a downstream impact on some other Air National Guard units, including Fresno.
▶ 1:58:30But as we go through that process, I I commit to you to say that um we're going to mitigate we're going to first of all reduce to the minimum amount of time that we possibly can what that what that delay in getting the exes to Fresno would be and then mitigate uh that as well as as we try to make sure that we've got you the best 15 C's and D's to continue the mission. Okay.
▶ 1:58:53And um that was going to be my next qu one of my questions is if there's a change in delivery schedule, which sounds like there possibly could be, uh does the Air Force commit to requesting the O andM needed to keep the current aircraft operational? But sounds like you might have something else in mind as well or a Um so we'll do everything that we can to make sure that the missions stay whole as we move forward. All right. Thank Um this one's on uh counter drones.
▶ 1:59:21How is the Air Force ensuring the funding for emerging technologies like drones and counter drone systems is prioritized, especially after incidents like the unknown drone flying over Langley Air Force Base and NAS Norfolk over the last past few weeks.
▶ 1:59:37So, Congressman, uh I understand that the Air Force has put together some rudimentary types of uh defensive capabilities and we've initiated a program that will be uh moving out in 26 as as we get those dollars to make a more modular, open, and expandable type of a capability. And we're going to start to out our installations with that capability as we go.
▶ 2:00:01Uh you've probably heard from the previous administration the replicator 2 types of initiatives to get out after counter UAS. This administration maintains its its concern with the counter UAS capabilities that we need to put forward and you'll see more and more of that as we get into the 26 budget. I I presume when we deliver it that we're going to be trying to get after that that threat. Thank you. Uh, General Zman, China is continuing to develop and refine claw enabled satellites that could target our assets and geo.
▶ 2:00:30Uh, what steps is the space force taking to advanced technologies like rendevous, uh, proximity operations and docking, uh, and on orbit servicing to counter this and where do you see the greatest need for investment to maintain our space superiority? We've got real solid investment in the GAP program, which is our current capability to do rendevous proximity ops in GEIO. We're expanding that to include other kinds of counterpace activities. I'm happy to follow up in a classified environment with you if we can.
▶ 2:00:57Uh but the most important thing that we need to add to it is the space domain awareness that enables the rendevous proximity ops. Can we see the target satellite? Can we see where we are? Can we manage the distances between them? You're talking 23,000 miles away. We've got to make sure we have good exquisite sensors that can detect that and give us situational awareness we need to be effective. All right. Thank you. Just real quick question. Um, can you provide us with an update on Space Force's deployment efforts to improve resilient positioning, uh, navigation and timing?
▶ 2:01:28Yeah, we um, we're still working through what we're shifting it from resilient GPS to resilient PNT. We're looking at all kinds of alternatives and we have money in the budget for all PNT programs and science and technology risk reduction. All right. Well, thank you and my time just about expired, so appreciate the time and I yield back. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Rejoice.
▶ 2:02:00You might want to bring your your mic up, David. Okay, there you go. Might want to turn it on, too, huh? I'm really watching that technology, I'm telling you. Acting Secretary Ash, we are carefully monitoring investments that countries like China are making to boost their defense production capacity. There are concerns that our current defense industrial base cannot meet the surge demand and will likely need to support of manufacturers outside the existing defense industrial base in the future.
▶ 2:02:28Does the Air Force have a strategic plan to increase and retain the capabilities non-traditional defense manufacturers to support the Air Force surge demand if needed? and would you require any additional resources or funding to develop those relationships and Thank you for that that question, Congressman. So, I I think the Air Force is doing a great job in trying to expand the defense industrial base.
▶ 2:02:51Uh, one of the elements that I I'll bring up is the next generation air dominance family of systems and John Alvin's also already brought up that we already own a government reference architecture in that in that area and that is really enabled us to grow the defense industrial base in that area and you're seeing some of the non-traditionals that are starting to grow and be become more of a traditionals enter into that competition uh for collaborative combat aircraft for instance, right? And so I think we're doing the right thing.
▶ 2:03:21We're moving in the right direction. If we continue to follow the model that uh ENGAD has has set up for us, we need to try to replicate that into the future and it's going to going to provide additional opportunities for those non non-traditionals at the Youngstown base. Unfortunately, we've C130s have to be cannibalized to make out of say eight, five are operating and three are sitting there as pieces and parts. So, I know that it's tough to keep a reserve of all the parts that are dependent upon making the mission work.
▶ 2:03:51Um, General, I want to I wanted to go back to you. How is the space force working to build our cyber resilience into satellite command and control systems as threats continue to Uh, we're growing into that mission area pretty quickly. Uh, we've deployed two systems uh recently that allow us to monitor our networks, our mission networks. Um it takes a lot of time actually to map the the cyber terrain and then teleimter it. Uh put all the right sensors in so that you can rapidly see if somebody's attacking the system.
▶ 2:04:20Uh we've taken care of missile warning as a mission area already. Uh and we're going towards the GPS constellation next. And so we're stepping it out as we can, but it takes a while just to map that terrain, but we're taking uh steps as quickly as possible. Thank you. Uh most of the questions I had otherwise had already been asked. I realize it's late, Chairman Calbert, so I'll pass give you back the remaining time. I thank the gentleman and I appreciate your questions. Uh, M. McCullum, you have any closing comments?
▶ 2:04:48Well, I just want to gentlemen for being here and I want to thank the acting secretary for your professionalism, the courtesies you extended all of us and everything like that. I hope there's a continuation you choose to accept it. Mr. Mr. Chair, I'm gonna ask I'm just going to list them really quick. Some questions for the record. Um because a lot of it I just want to put them officially out there. I kind of had an opening statement. This one I did not.
▶ 2:05:18The president has us nowed bonding towards I'm going to be submitting a record to find out you know what the cost of this was both in material and personnel what we've been spending workforce impacts. I think I A little more detailed question, the tariff question uh that has to do with the most expensive aircraft in the world, the F35. It looks like the administration is going to use something called the chapter 98.
▶ 2:05:49I want to understand how that how that works better. Um space launch availability. I know that that's a concern that Space Force has um as was pointed out you know what is going on with safety measures with the Osprey the trainer 17 and then Mr. Chair I know you have lots of questions as I do on Sentinel uh Golden Dome and the timelines for Air Force One. So thank you gentlemen for being here. With that Mr.
▶ 2:06:19Chair I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Uh before we conclude, I want to thank all of you for your uh testimony and your answering our questions. Uh there'll be a number of questions that we'll be submitting for the record. Uh obviously you have a lot of challenges ahead of you as the ranking member mentioned, you know, the Sentinel program. Obviously, we have to get that back on track. We got to get a plan. Need a plan on Golden Dome. Understand what the the con, you know, what where we need to go. And uh this is going to be a large project.
▶ 2:06:49Uh seems every contractor in town seems they are looking to get a piece of the action. So we need to know where we're going with this thing before we lose control. And uh obviously uh we have a number of challenges that we need to get through and we'll be working with you through all of them. So with that, thank you and we are adjourned.