▶ 0:02:06The hearing will come to order. Good morning everyone. I am Congressman Chuck Fleshman. I represent the third district of Tennessee including the great DOE reservation at Oakidge. I am privileged to be the chairman of the energy and water subcommittee of appropriations. Um and I would like to personally welcome the honorable Chris Wright. uh Secretary of Energy. Uh before I begin my formal remarks, Mr.
▶ 0:02:35Secretary, thank you on several levels. First of all, thank you for stepping up a great American entrepreneur. You have left the private sector to take on this arduous task, this important task at this time in our nation as Secretary of Energy.
▶ 0:02:52Um I would like my colleagues and friends on both sides of the disas to know that the secretary not only has been extremely communicative and cooperative with us he has actually visited several of the reservations including the great reservation at Oakidge been to our great national lab seen our NNSA facility and our great legacy cleanup work that's being done he's visited other labs and he's met with all of our national lab directors as most of you know the office of science is here and dear
▶ 0:03:22to my heart. And uh so, Mr. Secretary, thank you for a great 100 days. Thank you for your first hearing before us. Um and it's just an honor and privilege to have you here today. Thank you, Chairman. It's an honor for me to be here. Thank you, sir. Um Mr.
▶ 0:03:43Secretary, you have um had a busy 100 days from ending the reckless pause on LG exports on day one to reversing extreme energy efficiency standards that would significantly increase prices for American consumers to restarting decommission nuclear power plants.
▶ 0:04:05We've already seen the Trump administration's firm commitment, which I support wholly, to reverse the harmful policies and regulatory outreach of the previous administration in order to unleash American energy dominance. The Department of Energy plays a critical role in ensuring America's security and prosperity, and I strongly support many of the department's programs and activities. Uh, however, I applaud Secretary Wright and his entire team, and they've been great to work with. Mr.
▶ 0:04:34Secretary, for working to find efficiencies and streamlined operations, while we still are awaiting the full details of the president's fiscal 2026 budget request, candidly, I'm concerned to see such a significant reduction for the Office of Science. However, I'm pleased to see the department plans to prioritize research in high performance computing, AI, quantum, fusion, and critical minerals.
▶ 0:05:04uh as well as reprocessing. Uh the national labs will continue to drive American scientific and technological leadership and ensure our nation remains at the forefront of scientific discovery and innovation.
▶ 0:05:19The research done at our national labs is essential to rebuilding our domestic critical minerals production capacity, expanding American energy production, enhancing our national security, and competing with our adversaries like Russia and China. In addition, my support for the important work done by our national labs. Most people recognize me as a strong advocate for nuclear energy.
▶ 0:05:45Make no mistake, I'm an advocate for all the above energy strategy to include natural gas and coal because of the facets of modern society. Uh we benefit when there is abundant affordable energy. But nuclear in my view, Mr. Secretary, must be a foundational part of our energy strategy. So I'm glad to see the department plans to focus on developing innovative concepts for nuclear reactors and researching advanced nuclear fuels.
▶ 0:06:14I do have some concerns candidly with the proposed reduction to the nuclear energy budget. We're at a pivotal moment in the development of our nuclear energy technologies in the United States. The success of which are critical to regaining international dominance in the nuclear market for our own domestic energy security.
▶ 0:06:36The previous administration respectfully gave lip service to civil nuclear but ultimately failed to request the funding and resources required for its success. I expect to see a resurgence in civil nuclear power under the Trump administration and federal investment in my view is essential to ensure the successful demonstration of these firstofakind advanced nuclear technologies for commercial deployment in the United States.
▶ 0:07:03I'm pleased to see the budget request include strong support for the National Nuclear Security Administration as we know it, the NNSA, but I would like to see more resources requested in NSA's base discretionary budget request rather than it assumed via reconciliation. The global strategic environment is rapidly changing.
▶ 0:07:25Our nation's nuclear deterrent is vital to our national defense and NNSA is responsible for ensuring the United States maintains a safe, secure, and reliable nuclear stockpile. We spent two decades after the Cold War deferring any decisions about the future of our nuclear deterrent. And after decades of significant underinvestment, we were left with a nuclear security enterprise, primarily working in facilities dating back to Cold War, and in some cases, the Manhattan Project.
▶ 0:07:55Today, we're nearly 15 years into the modernization and recapitalization of our nation's nuclear triad, an entire nuclear security enterprise. It is imperative that we fully commit to the continued modernization of our nuclear weapons complex in order to rebuild our CA capacity, increase our capability, and respond more quickly to today's global security landscape.
▶ 0:08:20We cannot take this incredible enterprise that has maintained peace and stability for 80 years for granted. Secretary Wright, once again, I appreciate you being here today, and I look forward to working together with you and my colleagues to develop a fiscally responsible bill that will strengthen our national security and advance our energy independence. I will now turn to my friend and the distinguished ranking member, Miss Captor, for her opening statement.
▶ 0:08:50Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman. Good morning. Welcome, Secretary Wright and your team. Uh thank you all uh for joining us. This is a committee that actually can work on a bipartisan basis when we try hard. As the ranking member of this subcommittee and a lifelong advocate for America's energy independence in perpetuity, I welcome this opportunity to examine the Department of Energy's recent actions and to discuss your proposed budget. Let me begin with a plain truth.
▶ 0:09:18The essentials of life are fresh water, food, and energy. The United States cannot afford to shortch change our energy future. US energy independence is essential for our liberty. I served President Jimmy Carter during the turbulent era not so long ago when the United States slid into unconscious dependence on global energy supplies. My motto, from then until now, again. The Department of Energy is the engine room of our nation's energy security.
▶ 0:09:48It drives innovation. It serves as a critical steward of our nuclear security enterprise and our environmental obligations. We haven't always done well there. It powers our economy. It protects our grid.
▶ 0:10:04It supports cuttingedge research to ensure that our people, our working families, our industrious small and large businesses, our farmers, our retirees, all have access to affordable, reliable energy and continuing energy innovation. And yet, it appears our nation is confronted with proposals to slash20 billion dollar in Department of Energy programs, $20 billion.
▶ 0:10:30Despite clear and present threats to US energy stability, the administration's devastating 74% cut to energy efficiency and renewable energy is not just shortsighted, it is Since January, the Department of Energy has suspended critical energy programs, canceled executed awards and contracts authorized by this Congress, severely reduced staffing, including removal of the inspector
▶ 0:11:00general, who tries to go after the crooks, and changed contracting policies. The resulting confusion has disrupted communities, businesses, and project developers across our country. This chaotic approach to this critical sector of a strong America and our national security impacts every family, business, and community.
▶ 0:11:25Already, our people are feeling directly how the pinch feels when rising energy costs impact every family and business. Let me be crystal clear. Weakening US energy progress at DOE is a direct threat to America's energy security and gives our enemies relief. Weakness in advancing America's energy intelligence leaves us open and exposed to foreign influence.
▶ 0:11:54Radical cutbacks weaken our domestic supply chains and delay the very innovations that would shield our economy from global price shocks and hasten enemy targeting. I am shocked by the damage the administration's proposals are causing already and will continue to cause. Energy is essential to our way of life and economic growth of all of our communities. Take oil. You know that well. The United States is producing more oil than ever before.
▶ 0:12:24Record high production levels. Something that in theory should be bringing gasoline prices way down, not bobbing back and forth. But the reality is American families have not been seeing sustained record low gas prices. Why? Because we are still tethered to a volatile global energy market dominated by cartels and petroleum dictators.
▶ 0:12:47Oil prices declined recently after the OPEC cartel cartel and its allies agreed to a further boost output. Uh, US crude fell 2% to $53.13 a barrel, its lowest value since February of 2021. Let me be the first member of Congress to warn you that growing dependence on foreign crude is not in our national security.
▶ 0:13:1248 years ago, as our nation's economy tanked and sank into deep depression due to the first Arab oil embargo, President Carter and our predecessors in Congress created the US Department of Energy. With their vision and steadfast bipartisan commitment over decades, our nation has steadily made progress in attaining domestic energy independence. We are not at home plate, however. We cannot take our foot off the accelerator.
▶ 0:13:39Over the last 40 years, America's made remarkable progress through expanding domestic oil and gas production. Ohio knows this well. We have developed cheaper, cleaner energy Competition breeds lower prices in energy. Innovations, including bofuels, solar, energy storage, thermal recovery, are pushing the new energy frontiers of fusion as well advanced nuclear and hydrogen.
▶ 0:14:05Let's not forget when Russia invaded Ukraine, it wasn't just a European crisis. That illegal invasion sent energy prices soaring around the world. And the Department of Energy's swift action to deploy strategic reserves and accelerate clean energy development and deployment helps soften the blow. But without a fully resourced department, our ability to respond next time will be severely limited. The posture is dangerous, even foolhardy.
▶ 0:14:34American energy independence is about more than geopolitics. Hardworking families in Northwest Ohio and across our country feel these pressures at the pump, see it in their utility bills, and at the checkout counter at grocery stores. Our nation is approaching 350 million people. We cannot behave as though this is 1950. Undermining the US Department of Energy by severely underfunding advanced energy research risks higher energy costs.
▶ 0:15:04increased geopolitical volatility and weaker national security and that is not a future America should accept. Mr. Secretary, I would like to close by raising for your awareness a district- centric issue that holds national implications. Two of the five worst commercial nuclear power incidents in our nation's history occurred in Ohio's nuclear north that I represent. That's 40% of the bad outcomes.
▶ 0:15:31These dangerous and ultimately criminally negligent operations represent the worst management of commercial nuclear power in our nation's history. Built rateayers in Ohio for 40 years have been the victims of these corrupt commercial nuclear operations.
▶ 0:15:48All through the willful federal and abdication of commercial nuclear quality management including by the Atomic Energy Commission, the Department of Energy and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Our rateayers deserve and are due justice. They have been paying for the crimes and slipshot decision of those who should have aspired to such higher performance.
▶ 0:16:15So I ask that your intervention from your position be used to achieve justice for Ohio's built rateayers. The price gouging continues as we meet here today and as we work on the FY26 appropriations. I will fight to ensure this energy and water bill invests in America's energy future and its independence in worldclass innovation and diversifying energy supplies is fundamental to our continuing economic strength.
▶ 0:16:43I have a notebook I've prepared for you and your staff outlining what's been going on in Ohio. It's absolutely unAmerican what has gone on there and it's gone on for a long time. America's energy future is in your hands. Everything must be made in America for America to assure a remarkable history for the years and generations to come. Thank you so very much. I thank the ranking member for her comments.
▶ 0:17:14Um, Mr. Secretary, again, thank you for being here with us today. Without objection, your full written testimony will be entered into the record. With that in mind, uh, we would ask that you please summarize your remarks in 5 minutes. Um, and so our our folks on the DAS know we will then be entering into questions for five minutes. Hopefully, we'll be able to get two rounds in. So even myself I will limit myself to 5 minutes of of of questions especially in the first round.
▶ 0:17:44But with that Mr. Secretary you are now recognized sir and I thank you. Oops. My first mistake already. I'm starting strong. Starting strong. Chairman Fleshman, Ranking Member Captor, and members of the committee.
▶ 0:18:06It is an honor to appear before you and this committee today to discuss the president's fiscal year 2026 budget request for the Department of Energy. I'm especially honored to be at my first hearing before you as US Secretary of Energy. I want to commend this committee for its long-standing commitment to energy policy and its mission of the Department of Energy. Energy is the backbone of civilization.
▶ 0:18:34It is the essential catalyst of human progress enabling everything that we do from flights lights in our home the process heat in our factories and the innovation in our national laboratories. I've dedicated my life to increasing access to energy and I'm thrilled to carry my work forward at the Department of Energy at this pivotal moment in our history. My priorities for the department are clear.
▶ 0:19:02To unleash a golden era of American energy dominance, strengthen our national security, and lead the world in innovation. A reliable and abundant energy supply is the foundation of a strong and prosperous nation. It drives our economy, safeguards our freedoms, and fuels breakthroughs that improve our lives. When America leads in energy, we lead in prosperity, security, and human flourishing.
▶ 0:19:31Achieving this mi vision means fully leveraging the resources that have powered our country for generations. The United States is blessed with the abundance of coal, oil, and natural gas. and the Trump administration is committed to using them to provide affordable, reliable, and secure energy for the American people.
▶ 0:19:55America has a historic opportunity to secure our energy systems, deliver leadership in scientific and technological innovation, maintain and strengthen our weapon stockpiles, and meet Cold War legacy waste commitments. The Department of Energy will advance these critical missions while cutting red tape, increasing efficiency, unleashing innovation, and ensuring we are better stewards of taxpayer dollars.
▶ 0:20:23The president's fiscal year 2026 budget will ensure taxpayer resources are allocated appropriately and cost-effectively. This budget will return DOE to its core mission of advancing energy innovation and global competitiveness through research and development.
▶ 0:20:42We will invest DOE's resources in sources and technologies that support affordable, reliable, and secure energy and provide a return on investment for the American taxpayers. Just last week, the Trump administration celebrated its 100th day in office, and the Department of Energy has been hard at work to deliver on these goals of unleashing energy expansion while improving operational efficiency.
▶ 0:21:10I'm proud to report that we have officially ended the previous administration's reckless pause on LNG export permits and returned DOE to regular order for reviewing and approving new permits.
▶ 0:21:25Since January, the department has approved applications for projects that will export more than 9.5 billion cubic feet of LNG per per day, adding nearly as much incremental capacity as the world's leading LNG exporting countries. We are advancing President Trump's pledge to lower the cost of living and expand consumer choice for all Americans by right-sizing DOE's regulatory approach to home efficiency standards.
▶ 0:21:55This ensures that the American people can choose which appliances work best for their homes and budgets. While we actively work to strengthen America's role as the world's leader in oil and natural gas production and lower costs for all Americans, we are also taking steps to accelerate innovation in the commercial nuclear development. America must lead the commercialization of affordable and abundant nuclear energy.
▶ 0:22:24DOE is working to advance the rapid deployment and export of next generation nuclear technology including small modular reactors. Small modular reactors will provide reliable power for our nation's growing energy demands with the added benefits of flexible deployment due to their compact size and modular design.
▶ 0:22:46The responsible stewardship and modernization of the nation's nuclear weapons system is paramount for the Department of Energy and this administration. DOE is focused on addressing critical upgrades for the US nuclear stockpile and maintaining our engine powerhouses for submarines and aircraft carriers. Both tasks will become even more crucial in the next few years.
▶ 0:23:11We also need to unleash American energy innovation and the national labs are the engine that drives research and development to further this aim. When it comes to our national labs, we are capable of doing more with less. We can both increase efficiency and drive innovation.
▶ 0:23:29We will prioritize research that supports true technological breakthroughs such as nuclear fusion, high performance computing, quantum computing, and AI, which will maintain America's global competitiveness. AI is the Manhattan project of our time. AI will define the future of the world and it is essential that the US leads in the development of this technology.
▶ 0:23:54DOE has a significant role to play in driving AI innovation for scientific discovery, energy innovation, and national security. Our agency has the worldclass high performance computing capabilities that enable fast and efficient AI research and development, including four of the world's top 10 supercomputers. We need all energy sources to power the global AI race and meet growing energy demand while also ensuring the security of the grid.
▶ 0:24:24America doesn't back down from big challenges or big builds. If we want abundant, affordable, and secure energy, we must invest in the transmission, generation, and innovation that get us there. We are working to accelerate projects through permitting reform. We need to break ground faster with streamlined permitting, standardized designs, and public private partnerships to build at the speed of national need. DOE will work to replenish their strategic petroleum reserve.
▶ 0:24:54The SPR is a national asset that protects our security in times of crisis. The last administration's politically motivated depletion of 180 million barrels has significantly degraded SPR infrastructure, brought storage levels to historic lows, and weakened America's ability to respond to new geopolitical oil market shocks.
▶ 0:25:17As Secretary of Energy, I am honored by the responsibility to help meet the American people's growing energy needs and lead the world in energy development. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before this committee. Mr. Secretary, thank you for your opening statement, sir. At this time, I'm going to begin with questions, including my own. Um, and I thank you again. My first question, Mr. Secretary, is going to be dealing with high assay, lowenriched uranium, as we know as halo.
▶ 0:25:47Uh, Mr. Secretary, there's an urgent need in our country for commercially available Halo to enable US leadership in the deployment of advanced reactor technologies. Congress has provided the department with substantial resources to increase domestic production of HALO. In the fiscal 24 bill, I was able to work to secure $2.7 billion um for fiscal 24 to support these efforts.
▶ 0:26:12However, the department has been slowm moving in taking meaningful action to accelerate the availability of new and diverse domestic uranium enrichment capacity. I'm so pleased that this administration has taken steps to increase the availability of halo, including allocating Halo material from DOE sources to address the near-term fuel needs of our nuclear developers. And I thank you for that.
▶ 0:26:36What steps is the department taking to accelerate the development of commercially competitive Halo capacity in the United States? Sir, uh Mr. Chairman and the whole committee, thank you for your efforts to allocate over $2 billion for this critical issue for our country. And you're and you're right that that uh capital has not been deployed yet. And since I've been on this job about a 100 days, we are looking at that in detail of what's the greatest bang for the buck.
▶ 0:27:05How do we deploy that money to reestablish enrichment capabilities in the United States owned by American companies and not just for lowenrich uranium but for Halo for next generation and as you know we've already allocated amounts of Halo that are in DOE stockpiles to five companies that have new next generation reactors that are coming out to help those reactors get into testing and get into commercial production.
▶ 0:27:32We are evaluating, we've put out a request for interest uh to companies for producing lowenriched uranium in the United States. We've not got back proposals yet, but we will evaluate those carefully and soon we will send out a solicitation uh for Halo as well, looking to deploy the money you have allocated.
▶ 0:27:51As you as you know as well as I do, uh, a little less than a third of current enriched uranium powering the United States nuclear reactors actually comes by American companies produced in America. Twothirds of that is imported from overseas. This is unacceptable. And this is where we are today before we even get the growth in the nuclear renaissance we're both so passionate about. So this is a critical issue.
▶ 0:28:15We need to grow the capacity to enrich uranium on our soil and we will deploy those funds in that effort. Thank you for your comments and I agree 100% with the secretary and we look forward to furthering those goals. The next issue um with my time remaining is going to deal with spent nuclear fuel reprocessing. Uh Mr. Secretary, there's 91,000 metric tons of spent nuclear fuel stored at nuclear plant sites around the United States.
▶ 0:28:44We originally in this country developed technology to reprocess spent nuclear fuel during World War II and in fact operated some of the largest reprocessing facilities in the world until it came to an abrupt end during the Carter administration. One of the biggest faux paws in in in my view. Uh I have put up money in previous bills for nuclear fuel reprocessing.
▶ 0:29:08Many of my friends not only on my side of the dis but also on on the Democratic side are supporting reprocessing. What is the department strategy to advance spent nuclear fuel reprocessing technologies in the United States and ensure the long-term domestic commercial viabilities of these technologies? Sir, fantastic.
▶ 0:29:27Again, just yesterday afternoon, this was a subject of discussion among the DOE team in this in this area and a representative from the White House on nuclear science and discussing reprocessing. I agree with you. This has been a mistake in our country for 50 years, coming up on 50 years. All of that spent uranium fuel from our reactors today is just a growing liability for our country.
▶ 0:29:54And we have failed to find a long-term storage for that waste. And we have a growing hole, a growing burden, overhang on us for this waste. And as you pointed out, a lot of this waste and burden right now could actually be fuel and could be of value to next generation reactors. So there's a DOE has worked hard to prepare a study that will come out before too long on what is the appropriate way to move forward of reprocessing. Uh we're aligned on that.
▶ 0:30:23This is a resource, not a burden. Thank you, sir. Uh, my time's up, but I want to say even the previous administration worked with me on this issue and I look forward to working with you as well. At this time, I'd like to recognize ranking member Captor for five minutes for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll just ask one question and uh allow my colleagues to go on and I'll come back in the second round. Uh, Mr. Secretary, uh, our constitution delegates to Congress the responsibility of the power of the purse.
▶ 0:30:52uh during your confirmation hearings uh you acknowledge the executive role uh in this system and uh I'm quoting you directly you uh and quotes res you would respond to issues of concern to Congress and that's what I want to ask you about it is now May 7th in last January uh January February March April May 5 months ago uh we sent a letter to the department uh to your attention to freeze uh relative to the department's
▶ 0:31:23actions to freeze funding to vital energy programs. We followed up with a letter to you the next month in February on the same topic, freezing funds to vital energy programs. In February, we requested a briefing from you regarding the firing of NNSA workers and other Department of Energy staff. It's serious and it's consequential.
▶ 0:31:51And then last month, April, uh we sent another letter, follow-up letter regarding setting an arbitrary 15% cap on indirect costs for university research grants, which are going to have significant uh impact across this country. Mr. Secretary, I have to tell you, and I know you've been busy, but we have not had a single response to any of those requests uh despite the commitment that you made to Congress to respond.
▶ 0:32:20Uh, can you please explain how you might address this going Uh, you bet. I I've received numerous uh dozens of letters um accusing me of things that are reported in headlines in blog posts and media all over the place, almost all of which are false. Everyone who's reached directly out to me, I've jumped on the phone with, I've text back.
▶ 0:32:44I've not responded to the dozens of letters um yet because we're in the middle of reorganizing the department. But a a few quick summary points I'll hit. Um we have not frozen funding. We don't have a single unpaid invoice at our department. Not one. If we have an ongoing project for an existing commitment and work is being done, we've paid our bills. all of our bills. We are reviewing existing projects.
▶ 0:33:13We've canled zero so far, much to the frustration of people on the other side as well. There's a huge deployment of United States funds allocated by Congress and administered by the Department of Energy. I take that responsibility deathly serious.
▶ 0:33:31Every night I go to bed worried about that and I wake up in the morning to make sure that we are being appropriate stewards of American taxpayer funds and we are reviewing and I can I I'll walk through later in more detail exactly how we're doing that. But let let me let me say upfront why do we need this careful study right now? You guys are moving too slow active projects where work is being done. We've paid our bills. We've never not paid our bills.
▶ 0:34:01never to in the last administration. Let me let me give one example because it's it's indicative of other financial support programs. The loan program office is 15 years old. In its first 15 years, it deployed a little over $40 billion towards energy projects. 15 years, a little over 40 billion. We had an election in November.
▶ 0:34:24From the day after that election until inauguration day, the loan program office issued a hundred billion dollars of loans and loan commitments. Two and a half times what was done in 15 years. They did in 76 days. Mr. Secretary, thank you very much for beginning to respond. I'm not asking about the entire loan portfolio. I'm asking why you haven't answered four requests from the Congress of the United States in the House. Here I'm I'm here.
▶ 0:34:54By the way, it's bipartisan request and it is biccameal. I could not do the work I'm doing and responded to the dozens of letters I've got. I've had several phone calls. I'm happy to jump on with jump on the phone with you at any time. And it's hard to respond to requests where the premise of the questions and the premise of the accusations are simply false. Well, sir, do you have a congressional staff hired yet? I do.
▶ 0:35:23I have it's lean and mean, but it's it's uh it's actually a tremendous staff. Well, we have not since January gotten a response to our letters to you and um the uh we're very concerned about the firing of NNSA workers and Department of Energy staff. What percentage fewer staff do you have now than you did in January when you inherited the office? Um people in the doors that are on the staff right now, it's low singledigit percent.
▶ 0:35:50We are working on a restructuring of the department which will be a more meaningful change in that but it is in progress and it's almost entirely voluntary. Uh and how many thousands have left? Uh well less than a thousand. Well um would I have your commitment that you could look back at our initial request and every subsequent request and get back to us uh by next week? We will continue to provide updates as things evolve in the department.
▶ 0:36:20I've spent a fair amount of time on communications in this, but it's not been my biggest dedication of time. If I was to respond to the dozens of letters I've got um it it would be the majority of my time. I'm happy to jump on the phone at any time to talk to you or others about it. Mr. A more thorough briefing than that, sir. I'm I'm sort of disappointed in your answer this morning. I think it speaks for itself. Yield back. Thank you, ranking member.
▶ 0:36:47Uh, at this time, I'd like to recognize my friend, the distinguished former chairman of this subcommittee, the current chairman of the Interior Subcommittee representing the great DOE reservation in Idaho, my dear friend Mike Simpson. Thank you, chairman. Uh, congratulations, Secretary. This is the first time I've had a chance to congratulate you on your nomination and frankly on your confirmation through the body across the rotunda.
▶ 0:37:14Uh but we're glad to have you here and glad that you've taken the time both to brief us and uh your time from being a a successful businessman to join the government in addressing these these issues. I've appreciated that several times since you've taken over as secretary, you've referred to the national lab complex as a crown jewel of our nation. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Uh they do more research that's important there. I tell people if you ever want to get wowed by government, go visit one of our national labs and see what they're doing.
▶ 0:37:44Every time I walk out of one, I'm just amazed at what they're doing. So, I'd invite you out to visit the Idaho National Lab. I'd like to know when you're coming, so I'd like to be there with you. And I know the same is true for Congressman New House that represents uh PNNL and the Hanford Cleanup Site. Uh but it's uh it's great to have you here. And when you come out, we'll have a barbecue in my backyard. I've done that with every secretary, I think, for the last 20 years or something like that. Some of them get fairly memorable, but they're a lot of fun. So, anyway, congratulations.
▶ 0:38:12Let me talk about your uh budget reactor development. Uh, and I know you've already talked about Halo fuel that are going to be that's going to be needed by a lot of these new demonstration reactors and so forth so forth. Can you give us some insight into what the president's 26 budget request might look like regarding reactor development and Yes. Well, I I can't provide any details beyond the skinny budget.
▶ 0:38:37And as you saw, we do have a reduction in spending within the nuclear energy department at at DOE, but it it it in no way indicates a lack of focus or a lack of desire, even a reduction in desire for nuclear energy. as a career entrepreneur to really make nuclear energy work, the biggest thing we need by far is private capital, investment capital.
▶ 0:39:04And I have spent a fair amount of time in my first 100 days meeting with not just nuclear plant developers, both the big plants and the small modular reactors, of course, folks from Idaho National Labs, but also the hyperscalers, the ultimate customers and endusers of nuclear. Our goal is to bring in tens of billions of dollars during this administration in private capital to get reactors built. And I'm highly confident we will achieve that goal.
▶ 0:39:32We will use funding from the from the from direct grants through our nuclear energy office uh as you're well aware of to continue the advanced reactor development program to get more test reactors done at Idaho National Labs. And we will also use the loan program office to provide uh debt capital on top of a large equity stack mostly from hyperscalers. The offtakers of these reactors are willing to put equity capital in there.
▶ 0:40:01So our goal and I believe you will see it happen is vastly more money will be invested in nuclear energy uh during this administration than during the last administration or many administrations before that. But the majority of that capital will come from private sources. There will be government capital as as you're well aware of. There'll be government loans and loan guarantees and they'll be catalyzing regulatory events to bring that private capital in.
▶ 0:40:29But Idaho National Labs is is the leader the leader in nuclear commercial nuclear technology and will be absolutely central to launching the nuclear renaissance. from the test reactors that'll be done there to the scientists uh that are that are leading ideas on this that are collaborating with virtually all of the next generation commercial uh reactor developers. It is a gem. I'm excited to go out there. I'm signing up for the barbecue. All right.
▶ 0:40:57And uh and I made a pledge, I should say as well, I made a pledge uh right on the day I walked into the office at the DOE that I would visit all 17 of the national labs in my first year in office. They are indeed the gems of our country's scientific research. I'm a passionate about science my whole life. I visited several of them already. Um and I forgot my other point, but um well, I appreciate that nuclear.
▶ 0:41:25I agree with you and I'm glad to see that you understand the importance of nuclear energy if we're going to meet the energy demands of the future with data centers and uh AI and all of that stuff. It's amazing how much power local communities are going to have to have if they're going to put a data center in their somewhere in their community and stuff. In fact, nuclear power is what's going to solve that problem. I think let me ask you one other uh question or at least bring up the issue. Uh the cleanup projects uh that we're doing in the site. I noticed they're over in the skinny budget.
▶ 0:41:55They're they're the funding is down overall. We keep Hanford the same. I fully understand that and agree with that. uh that is a problem that we've got to solve and it's going to take a long time to fix it. Has there been an analysis done and to pay for that and to keep that the same level we've lowered the cleanup costs uh or budget in the other sites.
▶ 0:42:15Has there been an analysis what the increase in the total cost say at the Idaho cleanup project what it would be by delaying it because we underfund what's necessary to keep it going at the at the current level. uh because it that's going to that's going to extend the the uh time and cost of cleaning it up. So, has there been that analysis done?
▶ 0:42:36Well, Congressman, the the total reduction in the environmental management budget is actually quite small and our firm belief is that through efficiency, through doing things smarter, there won't be any slowdown. It's a small reduction in budget. We're hoping that the actual work achieved will be larger than it was the year before. So we're we're assume we're we're banking and believe strongly in efficiencies.
▶ 0:43:01That's why I'm here is to is to take a a department that hasn't really been run like a business and run it like a business. So with a few percent more in the budget, we can achieve several percent more in output. So no no intentions to slow down the cleanups at Idaho or any of the other sites. I appreciate that and I will tell you that I know you've met with all the lab directors and uh John Wagner gave you a big thumbs up when I talked to him last time. So, you're off on the right foot. Thank you, Congressman. Thank you, Chairman Simpson.
▶ 0:43:31Uh, Mr. Secretary, u I alluded to the strong bipartisan support in my opening statement. Uh, I chair eight nuclear related caucuses and energy caucuses. Um, and at this time, I'd like to recognize for five minutes my friend from California, Mr. Levan, who is my co-chair on the spent nuclear fuel caucus. So, Mr. Lean, I thank you for your work with me on that caucus and I recognize you for 5 minutes. Thank you, Chairman Flechman. Thank you, Ranking Member Captor, and thank you, Mr. Secretary.
▶ 0:44:01It's great to have you here. And as my friend from Tennessee mentioned, we have a bipartisan spent nuclear fuel solutions caucus. I represent uh Sanopre nuclear generating station which you may be familiar with and uh it has been for a long time uh a symptom of a greater problem in this country which is the lack of a really clear and coherent long-term strategy to deal with the nation's spent nuclear fuel and particularly as you and the administration seek to increase uh nuclear energy as a
▶ 0:44:31priority for for this country. We've got to fix the back end of the fuel cycle. So, I would love to work with you as I have with your predecessors on this issue. It's critically important that we do so in a bipartisan way uh and that we fund uh the uh the spent nuclear fuel program uh commensurate with with the need and and really with the challenge that exists. I have a chart from the DOE. We blew it up and I couldn't even believe it.
▶ 0:44:55I couldn't believe the numbers on this chart, but the the amount of money that taxpayers are on the hook for right now, hopefully you can see these numbers, has gone up from 27 billion in 2014 all the way up to 48.7 billion. It's around 2 million a day that it goes up by. So, in terms, my friend Miss Washman Schultz is not here, so I will use this. But in in terms of of efficiencies or or taxpayer liability, this is crazy.
▶ 0:45:26And as a member of this committee, I'm going to do everything I can to try to protect taxpayer dollars, which means we have to do better. The current uh projections from DOE says, you know, 2040 maybe for a consolidated interim storage facility or facilities all the way out to60 or 2065 for a geological repository. I want to work with you, my friend Chuck and others to dramatically accelerate that time frame however we can.
▶ 0:45:50So my my first question for you uh is um are you willing to work with us in a bipartisan way and support an appropriate level of funding because that's the other thing that this line on the bottom by the way is what the DOE has spent on these efforts. So that that number is not caught up obviously. So, are you willing to work with us in a bipartisan way to support an appropriate level of funding for your department's work on spent fuel so we can finally get this problem Absolutely, Congressman Leaven.
▶ 0:46:18And and you laid out a problem quite nicely. We share a desire to see nuclear power thrive and grow. Yet, we've had a spent fuel problem as long as both you and I have been alive. You know, we're over 25 years late in our commitment as a government to start taking the fuel away. I definitely want to work with you and all others. Certainly, ranking member Captor as well is passionate in knowledge about nuclear and she's she's got a lot of experience and knowledge I don't have. We need to work together on this issue.
▶ 0:46:49The the broader issue I arrive with is that we've tried one direction. We're going to pick a location and then we're going to just do it. That hasn't worked for many decades. My desire is to do this in reverse. If you tell someone it's going to be here, you're imposing it on people. Their gut reaction is no, you're not. No, you're not. We want to try the opposite approach. We want an opt-in approach.
▶ 0:47:14Who would like to host a site for nuclear waste disposal, may have reprocessing business there. It may have other uh nuclear business associated with it. I've floated that idea around. There's all sorts of states that want to be the nuclear state that want to do something like that. I think we've got to we've got to change the paradigm and invite people to partner with us to their economic benefit at their choice.
▶ 0:47:42Uh my suspicion is we will get many hands raised in the air and many proposals and my hope is that working together with you and others that we can move something that's just been stagnant for our lifetimes uh into motion. But but I am all ears for ideas and partnership and collaboration. So this is music to my ears because we've been working with DOE now for my six years on a consentbased approach, a collaborative more collaborative approach.
▶ 0:48:08We've funded now in in this subcommittee quite a bit of money over the last number of years, but it's a it's a drop in the bucket compared to what this taxpayer liability really is. So I'm I'm really encouraged by that. And I'd ask uh whether you'd be willing to report back to us with a integrated management plan for spent nuclear fuel that's long overdue at the DOE that is based in collaboration informed by lessons learned from past experiences and incorporates also best international practices.
▶ 0:48:38Can we work with you on all this? Absolutely. That's one of the things our nuclear team is is working on right now. Great. Now you I'll I'll end it there other than to say you have a fantastic team that we really do enjoy working with that that are doing great work. It's it's obviously very tough. This didn't get started overnight. It's not going to get fixed overnight, but I look forward to working with you to hopefully uh shave several years off that time frame. And with that, I'll yield back. Thank you, Congressman.
▶ 0:49:08Thank you. At this time, I would like to recognize my distinguished friend from the great state of Mississippi, the chairman of the House Ethics Committee, uh, Congressman Guest. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Mr. Secretary, thank you for being with us today. I want to thank you for ending the pause on LG exports. I want to thank you for your commitment to replenish our strategic petroleum reserve.
▶ 0:49:33And I also want to thank you for setting an agency goal uh that you list as unleashing American energy dominance while strengthening our national security. I noticed in your testimony on page three uh you talk about the importance of AI, artificial intelligence. Uh you refer to it as the next Manhattan project. Uh I've also heard it referred to as the next space race.
▶ 0:49:56uh you list there uh that we need all energy sources to power the global AI race and meet growing data center energy demands including nuclear, gas, uh geothermal, coal while also ensuring the security of the grid.
▶ 0:50:13Uh and so I would ask if you would just uh take a brief moment uh to talk to the committee about how the department is planning to meet the growing energy needs not only of data centers uh which are extremely important but also we know advanced manufacturing as we bring more advanced manufacturing online uh the energy needs of um transportation now as we see more vehicles being electrified.
▶ 0:50:38So, can you just uh tell us briefly um your goal as to how you would like to see the Department of Energy uh move forward to make sure that we have the energy necessary to compete uh in this uh AI race. Fantastic. Love the question and and and love the premise of how critical AI is. And I've called it the next Manhattan Project for for a reason. I'm sure you're aware.
▶ 0:51:03you know in in the original Manhattan project Nazi Germany was also trying to develop atomic bomb. So the cost of being second was just devastating. Like that was a race not you want to win, we had to win. And I think AI has similar overlay. You know, we we see the great commercial and personal lifestyle uses of AI already. But its uses will be dramatically impactful to basic science and maybe I'll get to that later, but also to national defense.
▶ 0:51:33If we are lagging, if we're behind China in AI, our sovereignty, our national defense is at risk. I think it is not an option for us to get second in AI. And I think in the last administration where we saw very little growth in America's energy production capacity, we were on a road where we were not going to lead in AI. So, as I think you and I both believe, we need to lean in. And if we're going to win AI, it is an energyintensive manufacturing industry.
▶ 0:52:03We have to enable the growth, dramatic growth of American energy production. If we are to lead in AI, fortunately, we have the resources, we have the businesses, and we have the technologies here to invest in those energy things. The main thing I view the department and the government as a whole is to get out of the way and to enable private businesses and enterprises to bring the hundreds of billions of dollars of capital investment that'll be needed to lead in AI.
▶ 0:52:32You mentioned uh LNG exports and natural gas. Today natural gas is by far the US's largest source of electricity. Um it's fast to stand up. We got a lot of capacity rooms to grow there. We want to remove barriers to growing that. Nuclear, I think, has a huge runway. It's not grown in the United States for decades, but it could and it should. That is another reliable, affordable, dispatchable energy source, very well suited for AI.
▶ 0:53:01Uh, coal, liquid, coal is the largest source of electricity in the United States for decades and in the and on the globe for 100 years. And we've been dramatically shrinking our coal capacity when we want to grow our electricity generating capacity. That just makes no sense. And Mr. Secretary, I agree with you. This this is a race we can't afford to lose. Uh you mentioned nuclear as being a key component. Uh we've heard a lot about SMRs, small modular reactors. Uh but I also want to talk more about largescale nuclear reactors.
▶ 0:53:28In my home state of Mississippi, we have the Grand Gulf nuclear power facility, which is the this most powerful single unit nuclear power plant in the United States. It is also one of the most efficient and most reliable. uh the um um facility there uh that has operated um u that uh nuclear power facility uh has an existing early sight permit uh that expires in 2027. Uh so that permit which existed for 20 years will soon expire.
▶ 0:53:59Um, they have indicated to me that they would like to renew that permit, but have also talked about that being cost prohibited, that the it is projected to cost tens of millions of dollars just to renew a permit where there has been very little done. Uh, and so, uh, in my last few seconds here, can you talk about how important it is to cut red tape and to streamline the permitting process for projects such as that? Just central. Look, our nation became great.
▶ 0:54:26We have gorgeous buildings like the one we're in right now because before in America, we built big grand things with a reasonable balance between being safe, being careful of the local environment, and making stuff happen. Now that balance is swung so far, it's easy to stop something, it's hard to do something. I am all in on trying to change that. You've got a great nuclear power plant with a fantastic operating record.
▶ 0:54:50should be a quick audit of how it's working, what it's doing, and it should be easier and much cheaper to re to extend that permit and keep the plant operating. I am fully aligned with that objective, and thank you for raising it publicly. Uh, thank you, Mr. Secretary, and Mr. Chairman. I yield back. And I thank the chairman for his questions. This time, I'd like to recognize my friend from Indiana, Mr. Mvin, for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, I thank you for joining us today.
▶ 0:55:18Uh my district is in northwest Indiana. I'm home to BP Ammo, one of the largest oil refineries east of the Mississippi River. Also one of the top steel producing regions in the nation. That being said, through the infrastructure bill, there were seven awarded hydrogen hubs. One of my the hydrogen hubs was absolutely awarded within my district, the Mach 2.
▶ 0:55:40Uh current reports have shown that that is one of those department review programs that have been paused while you're reviewing it. I'd like to ask specifically what is the criteria in which you are judging that specific project. Two, I just want you to know uh with the theme in a bipartisan way. We are working uh with Senator Young.
▶ 0:56:04Uh we've worked with the governor, then Hulkcom, now Governor Braw, uh in Indiana, the state legislature to set the table for the hydrogen hub. It creates 12,000 construction jobs. It allows for our steel industries to have a cleaner uh distribution by capturing carbon. It is a blue hydrogen and it is something that will be transformational transformational in economic development within my community.
▶ 0:56:33With that, I'd like to ask you what the current status is and the criteria of which you are judging it because I like you mentioned, you take your job deathly serious. I take work and wealth in my community deathly serious and this is something that creates work and wealth has passed the Congress and is now being reviewed by the Department of Energy. Thank you, Congressman, for that question. and and and I've seen several articles or headlines as well that we're cancelling the blue state projects and and advancing the red state.
▶ 0:57:02I don't even know where these rumors or this stuff comes from. They're not coming from us. I know it's not coming from you, but I'm saying it's all out there in the press. Everyone reads and hears and look, we we have made and maybe to some people's frustration, zero decisions on projects yet because key to me was to get thorough data and a process a process that was thoughtful, thorough, and deliberate. So what is the process and what is thorough data? Give me examples of that.
▶ 0:57:28So all of the hydrogen hubs today right now are are are being funded in feasibility studies. They're developing you know what what's the economics going to be? Where's the capital sources coming from? Where are the potential offtakes going to be at the end. So we are just looking the same way any any business would look at investments. We're looking at the legal aspects, the technology, the engineering, the market. Is there offtake agreements for these that make them viable?
▶ 0:57:53So with the market, if I may interrupt, both in both steel mills, Cleveland cliffs, US Steel have created a system that could use hydrogen. That would be through the carbon capture carbon capture project that would be able to be used in a blast furnace to be able to make more globally competitive steel and put less carbon out in my district so we have cleaner air and cleaner water. Yeah. Look, if if if it that that that's great.
▶ 0:58:22If it's a project that that meets it's got the co-inancing lined up, that's the science, the engineering works, it looks viable, it's got an offtake agreement, so it's not a bridge to nowhere. It's going to continue to go forward and be viable. Those are the kind of things that we're going to go forward with. We want to improve the the energy system. My question is or my my statement, I want to work in a bipartisan way to make sure that this project comes to fruition.
▶ 0:58:46I have to face the Northwest Indiana trades that wants to be able to create the apprenticeship programs that allow for the jobs to be filled of those 12,000 jobs. So the theme of uncertainty, how soon do you think those decisions will be made so that there can be a ramp up so that these investments can continue forward so that BP Ammo and or BP and the steel mills and my technology and unions and non-unions and contractors can have certainty that this project is going to go forward because it
▶ 0:59:17was awarded now it's held and uncertainty is blowing up our economy. the the the funding for the feasibility study is is ongoing. I don't think that's even done yet. I don't think we're actually holding it up. There probably is uncertainty of are are they going to fund it? So, I get that that that's real. Certainly in the next few months, by the end of this summer, hopefully before the end of this summer, we will have run through all of the four or 500 large projects that are currently in the pipeline at the DOE.
▶ 0:59:47To me, it was key to get in the right people to develop a series of processes. You used a key term, bipartisan. My whole life, I' I've been outspoken about energy my whole life, and I've always said energy should not be political. It's the basic infrastructure of human lives. And and creating work and wealth in my district along with energy is something that should be done in a bipartisan way.
▶ 1:00:09Uh I have uh United States Senator Senator Young sent a letter and recently United States Senator Banks and myself send a letter in support of this in conjunction with the Trump administration unleashing energy and how this plays into domestic manufacturing. So these hit all those criteria. It's blue hydrogen. It hits the oil. It's carbon capture and it creates jobs and wealth.
▶ 1:00:29So I look I look forward to working with you and having a open line of communication between my office and your department so that we can communicate accurately what is going on over the next few months. Then I have another question if I may. Uh within your testimony you talk about crit critical minerals. Just this morning at Ford plant in South Chicago they are going to halt production because of the lack of critical minerals on the braking systems.
▶ 1:00:54So, one of the uh part of your testimony is how important it is to our national security, domestic manufacturing, and and basically our economy on critical minerals. The current tariff system is halting minerals coming in from China. You're talking about critical minerals and how important they are. I want to give you an opportunity to speak to how we are going to speed up our critical minerals, our mining, and how we are going to do that so that people aren't losing jobs under this time of uncertainty. critical issue, Congressman.
▶ 1:01:25Thank thank you for raising it. It truly is critical. For decades, China has worked to get a large controlling in some case complete control of supply chain of what seem like small businesses, but they're critical businesses. Hence the term you can't build can't build the brake system without that magnet. And that's uh that's of great concern. There is a cross agency effort in this government right now.
▶ 1:01:52It is there not a day goes by, not a Saturday or Sunday goes by that there is not a dialogue about how do we change this calculus on the ground. How do we develop capacity of mines of refining of production in our country of so many of the 50 critical minerals we're 100% dependent on imports for 12 of them. Um we're up to 40 of them that we don't that we produce less than half of in this country.
▶ 1:02:17So yes, it is a priority issue for us and it's something you're going to hear a lot more about, but thank you again for raising that and for your uh bipartisan and job focused sentiments on energy. Yes. And just in closing, uh the real life of that is that uh in Riverdale, a steel mill that is part of my local 1010, they just laid off people because the pinching of the auto industry. And I just received notice today they're going to be closing down or reducing workers within uh a plant near me.
▶ 1:02:4680% of those people live in my district. I will work with you in any way possible to close that gap to make sure that the minerals are there to make sure that those individuals are working and providing for their families. So, we definitely we take that deathly serious together and I want to work with you in order to find solutions quickly so that there isn't this uncertainty and economic disruption to those people's lives. Fantastic, Congressman. Thank you for those words and for your passion. Thank you. Thank the gentleman for his questions.
▶ 1:03:14And I would respectfully remind the members that we want to limit the first round of questions to five minutes so that everyone can have an opportunity to ask. At this time, I'd like to recognize the distinguished vice chair of this subcommittee, Mr. Cloud for Texas for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I uh come from the district that's home to Corpus Christi, the number one energy export port. So, we were very thankful to see your uh removing of the LG export ban.
▶ 1:03:42I had just some months ago uh as was at an energy summit and there were 14 other countries there. Uh had the opportunity to speak to them and the first question they had from other countries was how soon will you be able to send LG to us.
▶ 1:04:00Um, and that was their their biggest concern because of uh all the wonderful benefits of it and certainly us producing energy is a lot better than them going to other countries who don't do it nearly as well as we do. So, so thank you for that. Um, this conversation is really so important.
▶ 1:04:17And I appreciate what you've done and what you bring to this office in the sense because you have always made the connection between energy production and human flourishing and uplift and understanding that our policies are actually directly connected uh to to humans advancing and being able to heat our homes and travel and all those different kind of things.
▶ 1:04:40So, I' I've appreciated the heart you brought to it and just uh you know about a year and a half ago as I talked to different energy producers, the conversation was kind of like everybody was trying to get their piece of the pie and as you mentioned with the advancement of data, AI, everything that we're looking at at the future and expecting exponential energy growth, it's more like how much pie can we make uh than it is everybody having to kind of fight for their piece of the pie.
▶ 1:05:07Having said that, I I I also appreciate your understanding how it's so important that we prioritize consistent affordable base load energy. Uh we've had a lot of investment in intermittent energy sources um that isn't returning a good necessary ROI to the American taxpayer or to the industry for that matter. uh and some of our investments have had the effect of distorting the economy uh in a way that's not very helpful or natural.
▶ 1:05:37Um as we're competing with China, one of the biggest concerns that I have is just the speed it takes to get things done in our country. Um and I'm wondering if you could speak to that, what what you could do in your agency to help with permitting processes and those kind of things, what what you need help from us in Congress. um any advice you would have on what we need to do to to work with the NRC or other regulatory agencies to speed up the permitting process?
▶ 1:06:07You we used to be known in America as people can get things done and do it pretty effectively quickly. Uh and now that seems to not be the case. We need to return that. So, how how do we go about that? Boy, that that that's the big question. It is a very big question. It's certainly one of the reasons I'm here. Uh I just came from abroad. I was in central Europe uh last week and I traveled in the Middle East a week or two before that and everyone wants to invest in America, right?
▶ 1:06:34Because you got rule of law and you can do business in America and there is a growing concern that we can't get permits. We're ready to bring a lot of money and we and and obviously everybody wants us to build a data center or power plant or whatever it is their investment is going to, but it's taken us forever to get a permit. This is this is making our society more stag stagnant. It's pushing manufacturing and things overseas. It's chilling investment in our country which means less jobs are created in our country.
▶ 1:07:03Less pressure to push wages up that we all want to see. So it is absolutely critical. I I can tell you a few things we did at the Department of Energy. For example, in the national labs, think of OSHA, right? We have a very robust, maybe overly robust health regulatory agency that all businesses comply with, including my former businesses when I was in a different in a different life at the at the Department of Energy. You have to comply with all that.
▶ 1:07:29And then another layer, you know, another layer that's mostly duplicative and slightly different in some areas. You can't even get most of the people to bid on building something because they're not going to go through that extra hoop. It it cost the Department of Energy to build like a laboratory building where scientists are working on computers 60% more than it would cost a business across the street to build the same thing.
▶ 1:07:52So the government of course is just and so we I I convened all the national lab directors within two weeks of my arrival in the doors to tell us how can I help you? How can we make things more efficiently? Now, that's just in the labs, but they gave me a bunch of lists and we are rapidly implementing them so we can build stuff quicker and faster and remove some of this red tape. But for commercial businesses, they have a ton as well.
▶ 1:08:15The National Energy Dominance Council was really created to get all of the agencies, EPA, Interior, Energy, Commerce, uh, Treasury together of what and and what we what we basically do is we listen to businesses everywhere. Why can't you invest in that or what's slowing you down? And we are trying to knock things over that we can that are regulatory. But I think some kind of congressional permitting reform is necessary as well. Part of our team is working with people in Congress.
▶ 1:08:46What's the bipartisan way to get bills that just put timelines on certain things? You know, NEPA is to pro protect our environment. Everybody wants clean air and clean water. But if if a NEPA thing makes something last six or seven years to get approved, most things just simply won't get built. It just means nothing happens. So, thank you for expressing that sentiment. I think it's a huge problem in our country. How can we advance if we can't build anything? Yeah. Um, thank you for that.
▶ 1:09:13Uh, one thing I did want to because this seemed like a headline to me, uh, and we kind of skated through it, but but the Biden administration in their last few days in office sent out a hundred billion as opposed to 40. Could you speak to that? I mean, that that seems almost criminal. Are those employees still employed with the DOE? I mean, you know, that's Anyway, that just seems work. I'm also on the oversight committee, so I'm, you know, have a natural pinchion for looking into stuff like this.
▶ 1:09:40But, uh, could you speak to what really happened there? It's, it's extremely concerning. And so, to balance the moving things forward, projects forward, but to understand how did this happen, what was in it. I I could go on. There are clauses in loan agreements that are in all previous loan agreements that somehow weren't in the loan agreements rushed out at the end. So, this is a longer topic, but extremely concerning.
▶ 1:10:06A little over $40 billion of of commitments and loans out of the loan program office in 15 years and then nearly a hundred billion in 76 days. That's I think we should all be concerned about that and that's one of the reasons I'm I'm trying to assemble a top-notch team and be very careful that we do things in a responsible way. Thank Thank you. Uh at this time, uh Mr.
▶ 1:10:34Secretary, I would like to recognize the ranking member of the full appropriations committee, u uh Rosa Deloro from Connecticut. Ranking member, thank you very very much, Mr. Chairman, and ranking member Captor, and welcome to you, Mr. Secretary. Delighted. I apologize to my colleagues for interloping, but there are five hearings I'm trying to get to today. Uh so and this is the second.
▶ 1:10:59So um uh let me just talk about um the um the budget for 2026 um which makes strategic investments that lower energy costs for American families, promote American energy independence, support a robust um and modern manufacturing uh sector. I I I want to know more about the funding that's already been appropriated in law.
▶ 1:11:23The fiscal year 2025 continuing resolution required the Department of Energy to submit a spend plan for the department at a level of detail provided for in the previous year's explanatory statement within 45 days of the enacted legislation. The department has not met this deadline and did not submit to the committee a spend plan.
▶ 1:11:50We were supposed to get spend plans by the end of April at the level of detail as required by law in the continuing resolution. It shouldn't be a difficult exercise since it's the fiscal year 2024 energy and water bill included the department of energy funding tables uh into law.
▶ 1:12:11It dictate dictate dictates all the programs project activity levels for DOE except for the three accounts exempted by the continuing resolution. So that we have the blueprint because by law for 2025 we are under the year-long uh uh CR reflecting the 2024 budget uh as as enacted.
▶ 1:12:35So when will the department comply with the requirement of the continuing resolution to submit a spend plan with required level of detail? Will that spend plan follow the law by using all levels incorporated into statute from the fiscal year 2024 energy and water bill? Yes. Uh thank you for being here uh Congresswoman Deloro. And I've spoken to this a little bit beforehand, but I can I I can sum summarize that as well.
▶ 1:13:02When I walked into the department, I I mentioned we had a rushed commitment just in the loan program office of hundred billion dollars in the 76 days from election day in November to inauguration day. So we are funding and paying all of our bills that are current for work done. But do we know whether the projects that we have are going to meet the next hurdle to go on to the next step? We we do not know that.
▶ 1:13:27Well, let me just say and I just because I I want to ask another question, but the requirement by law under the continuing resolution was to provide the appropriations committee with a spend plan as to how you want to 2025 spend this money. As I say, it shouldn't be difficult because we're under 2024 and it is all outlined in 2024.
▶ 1:13:52So, I really want to press you on getting us that spend plan with detail so we know where we're trying to go in 2025. Uh because we haven't settled that budget yet given a year-long continuing resolution which was very specific about getting us the material and how you intend to spend the money in 2025. Again, simple. It's 2024. You can carry it over.
▶ 1:14:20I've got a fear that we're going to lawless, you know, illegally trying to move these funds uh and move them elsewhere. But the law of the land is the 2024 enacted budget applied to 2025. So, I really were going to press on getting that. Let me move move quickly to another question if I can. um I uh um uh at the moment and I want to talk about what's happening right now.
▶ 1:14:50We need to know more about the funding already appropriated into law. It's not a directive. It's not an idea or a suggestion. This committee, Democrats and Republicans came together, passed legislation signed by the president of the United States. That's how a bill becomes law. It's very very simple. So, but the the department refuses to release more than 50 67 billion in the face of court orders out of the 430 billion in frozen funding across the federal government.
▶ 1:15:18Connecticut 70 million of energy efficiency renewable energy awards have been inexplicably recommended for cancellation, including an award focused on technologies to produce hydrogen energy. We should be at the forefront of new energy technology, not retreating to the sidelines. In addition, your department recommended cancelling a 389 million award from the grid deployment office for the Power Up New England project.
▶ 1:15:43Reduce energy costs for New England customers by over$ 1.5 billion while bringing 4,800 megawatts of offshore wind power online. Now, it appears that some projects pre previously demeaned deemed worthy of funding are being cancelled without adequate justification. Some cases no clear rationale other than administrative convenience.
▶ 1:16:05Troubling reports of service suggesting that the review and subsequent can cancellations may be and I say may be politically motivated targeting projects in democratic states and in districts. These actions will raise energy prices for businesses and families and make the US less competitive. These are my two questions and again it's it's it's yes or no. Can you provide to this committee a list of awards that are being considered or recommended for Yeah, you listed a couple that have been recommended for cancellation.
▶ 1:16:35That's just simply untrue. We have made fine. I I because we can't seem to get the information. That's why I wanted to ask you directly and I appreciate that. Well, that would be great. But getting that list of considered or recommended for cancellation and what specific criteria are is being used to evaluate awards. We need to know that in this committee so we can say yes, you've made a good decision on this or let's take another look at this.
▶ 1:17:00So with that, if you can get us that information as quickly as possible, it will be helpful and your spend plan. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. You bet. Thank Thank you, Congressman. Thank you. And I yield back. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate and I thank the ranking member for coming today. Appreciate that. There are several hearings going on right now. So appreciate the fullness of the dis in in that regard. Mr. New House, my friend from Washington State, was here earlier.
▶ 1:17:24Uh he represents the great Hanford uh reservation, has worked with me for years on legacy cleanup, and he's got a great lab out there. So, I recognize Mr. New House for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that and enjoy the work that we do together on important stuff. Mr. Secretary, welcome to the committee. Appreciate you being here. Uh you you've uh picked up the ball very quickly and and are running fast with it. I appreciate all your hard work. I wanted to bring up a couple different things. So, uh try to get to them in the short amount of time that we have.
▶ 1:17:54But first, the lower Snake River dams as we've talked about before. You know, hydroelectric power, it's vital to my region of the country. It produces um a reliable lowcost electricity for rateayers. It provides us so many different kinds of benefits from uh the power the clean power uh generation that is critical uh for us.
▶ 1:18:18It also provides us a tremendous amount of uh help for the agricultural industry and the irrigation water. It provides flood control. Transportation is huge. All these different benefits um that we we we der derive from the dams. But as you know, there's been efforts over the past decades to breach the dams due to to one reason and that's migrating fish, the the salmon that are very important to the Pacific Northwest as well. So, I'm just I wanted to bring that up.
▶ 1:18:47Uh, unfortunately, Mr. Simpson isn't here. We've engaged in a lot of conversations about this, but I just wanted to to make sure that hear your commitment to work together with us so we can continue to derive the benefits of the hydroelectric system as well as a strong salmon population. I think we can do both. We've proven that efforts that if allowed, uh, we've been able to make significant increases in the number of salmon.
▶ 1:19:15U your insight even though this is a congressional decision your insight your help on this issue would be tremendously important. Just wanted to ask if there's any plans in place as you're getting up to speed conversations you might have that uh we could we could maybe utilize to get away from the efforts of the federal government particularly executive branch recently of of of removing such an important asset in the Pacific Northwest. Uh, thank you, Congressman New House.
▶ 1:19:44And yes, I share your perspective on that. Hydro electric dams were again large infrastructure projects. When America was bold, we built a number of great dams. They've been critical to the economic prosperity of our country. Very early suppliers of firm, reliable power. What's great about dams is when when demand for electricity goes up, you can release more water. When you're in low demand periods, you can release less water.
▶ 1:20:08So they provide what I call highv value electricity which means it's there when you need it and and you can hold it back when you don't need it. Uh they're very valuable assets. We're going into a period of significant demand for growth in electricity driven by AI and resourcing of manufacturing. We got to be ready to meet those demands without harming rateayers by driving up price to kill demand. So yes, I I I am passionately in support of those dams staying in place. They've been tremendous assets for decades.
▶ 1:20:39Uh we should not spend money to go backwards to reduce our energy generating capacity particularly of such high value electricity as that from those dams. So yes, I I am fully aligned to work with you and so is the whole um to think to think first about the American taxpayers and and the American citizens that need it. And I was a board member of an environmental group until I was confirmed into this role.
▶ 1:21:04so also passionate about fish and and and the outdoors and animals and and clean air and clean water and all that. And as you said, they go they go together. They they are not always in opposition. In fact, they're rarely in opposition. Yeah, absolutely. That's great. I appreciate hearing that. And in that note, you you we've talked about Hanford. Mr. Simpson talked about that as well. Mr. Mr. Chairman did as well.
▶ 1:21:31um when you come out to visit Hanford, which I know you will as Secretary of Energy, I'd love to be able to include in your trip a visit to one of the hydroelectric dams on that. Absolutely. Absolutely. When I go out to PNNL, I'll also visit Hanford and I'd love to go visit uh a dam or two with you as well. Good, good, good. We'll make that happen.
▶ 1:21:51Um so talking about Hanford, a significant uh effort on the part of DOE in in central Washington, some of the legacy cleanup of our efforts in to win World War II and in the Cold War, the Manhattan Project, all those things that tremendously important, but we have a problem that that we're facing.
▶ 1:22:14Um, I I do appreciate the comments that you've made and conveying the importance of that and really anxious to to have you out there and and visit firsthand so you can see exactly what's going on. Tremendous work that is happening there requires a stable steady budget in order to make that successful and long-term commitment which fortunately that has been there and we want to continue that.
▶ 1:22:38I I just wanted to um uh ask you about any kind of uh thoughts that you've been putting into this. Are you planning to ensure as you look at the adequate resources that are necessary for Hanford as that as this work continues and ramps up? We're just about close to opening the vit plant which is an exciting thing. Um so just wanted to get your perspective on that and again reiterate looking forward to your I'm sure will be upcoming visit. Yeah.
▶ 1:23:07One of my key picks for my team for assistant secretary was environmental management, you know, and I picked a guy who's been a constructor, developer, investor, businessman about building things um and and moving dirt and making stuff happen. So, I think he will be a great asset to environmental management team. Uh but yeah, Hanford is key.
▶ 1:23:29you know, the funding for that, unlike almost everything else in the department, is flat for uh that we have proposed in our budget for 2026 versus 2025. I'm very excited to see the direct feed uh low activity waste plant come online this year.
▶ 1:23:46I've had multiple meetings with Becttel about that and um and I've continued to express the importance of it and and uh and I've gotten great assurances all the way from the top of the company that top people are on it and that that plant will be operating this year. I'm excited to see that. In fact, I'll probably be out for the ribbon cutting when we get that going. I'm looking forward to Thank you for your commitment to that. Yeah. Thank you. And I apologize, Mr. Chairman. I'm way over time. So, thank you. I yield Maybe not so much over time.
▶ 1:24:17Okay. Uh thank you, Mr. New House. At this time, uh I'd like to recognize my friend and colleague from Nevada, Miss Lee. Uh Mr. Secretary, we talked earlier about our eight caucuses. Miss Lee is my co-chair on a critically important caucus, the Nuclear Cleanup Caucus, um which is probably one of the largest caucuses, bipartisan caucuses in all of Congress. Uh, I took that over from uh my dear friend Doc Hastings from New House uh from from Mr.
▶ 1:24:47New House's district. So, at this time, I'd like to recognize my friend and colleague, Miss Lee. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, good morning. It's nice to see you, Secretary Wright. Thank you for being here and your work.
▶ 1:25:03Um, since coming to Congress, I've worked with everyone, Republicans, Democrats, uh, multiple administrations to make sure that no federal money goes to, uh, the failed Yucka Mountain Repository project. So, your assessment was music to my ears uh, and Neadan's ears who have opposed this for decades.
▶ 1:25:27Um and so we I my heart goes out and to my colleagues who really need a solution to nuclear uh fuel spent nuclear fuel and uh so that's why I am proud to work with the chairman on the uh nuclear cleanup caucus because I don't think you should always be a brick wall that you should come up with an alternative solution.
▶ 1:25:54So uh it was good to hear your uh assessment on uh consentbased sighting and asking communities to opt in which I do believe is the best approach uh to nuclear waste. So, I just wanted to uh confirm and get your commitment that in your final fiscal year 26 budget request.
▶ 1:26:19Uh it will reflect your commitment um that not one dime for the Department of Energy to license or otherwise force a nuclear waste repository on my home state of Nevada. So, I'm prohibited for talking about the details of the budget request that hasn't been released yet.
▶ 1:26:40But, yeah, I think you heard my strong sentiment that the solution to this problem is to get communities to opt in um and not a top- down force down. So, I I I think we're aligned on that. And I I think we're also aligned that hopefully that it's not just some people, but it's all of us need a solution for long-term disposal to waste, but that we've got to do it a different way. the ways we've tried in the past decades have simply not worked. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm happy to continue to work with you and your team on that.
▶ 1:27:10I want to pivot to something that I do think it's safe to say that you and I both believe in and is in our country's best interest, and that's more geothermal energy. Uh at your confirmation hearing, you referred to geothermal as an abundant uh energy resource right below our feet.
▶ 1:27:29So, uh, the DOE has estimated that thanks to enhanced geothermal systems, the US has the potential to affordably capture enough of our domestic geothermal resources to power the equivalent of more than 65 million homes by 2050, but continued uh, support from the Department of Energy will be essential.
▶ 1:27:52Uh can we expect again I know you're probably limited and and identifying but can we expect uh in the final budget request that it will reflect the enthusiasm you have expressed in particular through robust funding of the geothermal technologies office as well as investments in next generation uh demonstration projects. Yeah.
▶ 1:28:20So, as you know, I I can't speak to any specifics in the in the final budget request that'll be coming, but yes, I share your belief. What's valuable about geothermal is you get energy when you need it and when you want it, and you can even flex it up and down. So, I think it's a tremendous energy resource. I look forward to helping to push it forward. Both that'll be government e efforts, but the biggest driver there, like with nuclear, is going to be commercial private money, which has started to flow in that space.
▶ 1:28:50And so I want to work not just at the department but together with commercial players in that space. How can we enable more capital? How can we make permitting simple? How can we help on technology development? Um but yeah, I I am bullish on the future of geothermal, but permitting and a sober government uh is necessary to make that happen. Well, I have several bills uh that are bipartisan aimed at uh streamlining the permitting process.
▶ 1:29:18So, uh, hope to get your support on those. I think that's important. So, I'm very happy to hear that. Uh, my state doesn't have much oil or gas to speak of. In fact, more than, uh, 20 out of the 22,000 federal oil and gas leases issued in Nevada since 1953, fewer than 100 or less than 1/ half of 1% have ever produced any energy. But what we do have, 300 or more sunny days each year.
▶ 1:29:47And so I was pleased to see the BLM approve the first uh utility scale solar facility on federal land since uh the start of the Trump administration which was in Yuma County.
▶ 1:30:00Can we interpret this uh positive news to mean that the DOE under the new administration will also champion solar as part of the all of above energy strategy including maintaining and supporting the department's solar energy technologies office? Well, uh my my comment on that I've never been all of the above myself because there's a there's energy sources that that that swallow money and don't deliver value.
▶ 1:30:30So I'm not for them, but I am for all energy sources that are affordable, reliable, secure, and better our energy system. And I think solar, you see meaningful growth of that in the marketplace with commercial money. It's heavily subsidized. So that's a distortion there. But yeah, so solar, I believe, my personal belief, an energy source with the future. And um yes, and I think you'll see continued work on solar at the Department of Energy. Great. Thank you. And I yield. Sorry.
▶ 1:30:59Thanks, gentle lady, for her questions. At this time, I would like to recognize the newest member of our um subcommittee, uh, Miss Mallaloy from Utah. Thank you for five minutes. Thank sir. Thank you for being here, Mr. Secretary. Uh, I represent Utah's second district, which is most of the West Desert in Utah, and that has some some world-class geothermal resources, and I was prepared to ask you a lot of questions about that.
▶ 1:31:29And then my colleague from Nevada mostly covered what I was going to ask. So, I'm glad to hear that that's a priority. I'm I'm glad to hear that you're planning on utilizing private investment to get some of these resources up and running. We do have some good research facilities where they're trying to take geothermal resources that we used to think weren't adequate and prove that they are. So, I hope you will support those efforts. And I also have several bills to help with the permitting process. So, I would look forward to working with your team on that. Fantastic.
▶ 1:31:58I look forward to working with you on that. And since we covered all of that, I'm going to get to two other questions that I was really hoping I would have time to ask. Um given the importance of reducing our reliance on foreign countries for critical minerals, for fossil fuels, for a lot of the inputs to energy, what are you doing at the cabinet level with the other secretaries to support domestic mining, oil and gas development, refining capabilities?
▶ 1:32:22Um so that we're not just talking concepts about how we could be producing energy, but we're moving towards producing more energy and more of the inputs to energy Oh, great question. Great question. Of course, and critical minerals and mining and processing and refining of minerals and materials in the United States is central to President Trump's agenda. You know, we've gotten ourselves, fortunately, most oil and gas developments on private land.
▶ 1:32:51And so, it in spite of withering federal opposition, it is sort of advanced in spite of efforts at the federal government the last four years to strangle it. mining is more difficult. You know, a lot of mining is on a lot of the resources for mining are on federal lands and the US was a great giant proud mining nation when I was born and uh and we've gone backwards that entire time.
▶ 1:33:17It's incredibly hard to permit a mine in the United States and it's what got us in some of the tough situations that were mentioned earlier of there's so many critical materials we don't produce any of in this country and we can and I'm going to interrupt you just to make this point. What we've seen in the past sometimes is the Secretary of Energy says we want to be producing more of this, but the Secretary of Interior is working on a different agenda. And what I'm hoping we can avoid is having secretaries working across purposes.
▶ 1:33:46So you're saying what I want to hear, but then there's another secretary implementing policies because we're producing energy on public land in my part of the country almost exclusively. That that is correct. Yeah. And and well aware of that and it is a success story because of local support in Utah that's driven that forward. But you had a bigger fight than than to make that happen than in other states where it's private lands.
▶ 1:34:09But that's why President Trump and Secretary Bergam led the effort to create the National Energy Dominance Council and energy means critical minerals and materials and mining as well. Um but uh so that is absolutely and we talk about this every day. Every day we have a list of mining projects that that look like they're credible that'll produce important stuff for our country and we're trying to find out what is the barriers and it's multiple agencies.
▶ 1:34:36What are all the things that have tripped them up and how do we knock those down? And I think you're going to see in this year, the first year of this administration, you will see a number of exciting announcements of mines fully permitted and shovels in the ground to get them going. Mines that have been in process for over a decade are finally going to happen. But it is critical to our national security. Not just to our economic well-being, but to our national security. Well, as the daughter of a minor, I'm really glad to hear that. Um, and and that leads to my other question.
▶ 1:35:06that I hope you can answer quickly in the time I have left. How are you working with state and local elected officials to make sure the plans you're making work for regional plans and and that everybody's engaged so that we don't have the federal government saying they're going to do something that then local governments don't have buy in? No, you're so right. We have a great federal system in this country. I have talked to more Democratic governors in the last hundred days than in my entire life combined and great conversations.
▶ 1:35:36It's amazing how embracing so many Democratic governors are. They've seen the high price of energy and jobs not in their states anymore and and they want to see activity go ahead. A couple there's more contentious uh negotiating going on, but for the most part, it's been a welcoming environment. But you're right, it's not just federal. We need state. We need local communities and towns into it. Which is why I'm very outspoken on this stuff. This is in America's best interest.
▶ 1:36:01It's in the planet's environmental interest as well as economic interests for us to start building things in America again. Well, I was just at breakfast with the speaker of the Utah House of Representatives, and he would be mad at me if I didn't reiterate what he keeps saying, which is anytime you need to do a pilot project and have a proof of concept, Utah's willing to move quickly, and we're eager to be part of the solution. So, I love it. Look forward to working with you and your great state. Okay, with that I Thank you.
▶ 1:36:31And if I may, Mr. Secretary, I want to thank you for meeting with our governor, Bill Lee. You've been so good to talk with so many governors. And maybe at some point in time, it would be great if we could have a a uh bipartisan group of governors come up and have a conference with you. uh so appreciate your you're being so open and and uh available to speak with all of our governors because our states are a great hotbed for innovation and especially in in new nuclear. So I thank you for that.
▶ 1:37:00At this point in time, I'd like to recognize uh my my dear friend from uh Florida uh Mr. Franklin for five minutes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Secretary. Um as others have mentioned, I apologize for bouncing back and forth.
▶ 1:37:15We've got multiple secretaries here and it's it's a shame because we wait all year to have the opportunity to speak with you all but but thanks for your patience and I apologize if I get into something that you've maybe already touched on but if nothing else maybe give you a chance to expand a little more but also um I'm really excited for this because for my entire life we strive so hard to achieve energy independence and in four quick years we unilaterally handed that away. So with your appointment to this position I was I was extremely excited at what we have coming.
▶ 1:37:41So uh in the last congress I had the chance to serve on the AI task force that the speaker put together and across the year with all the various uh stakeholder groups the one theme that kept emerging from all of them regardless of their specific needs they said but the long pole in the tent is going to be energy you've probably talked touched on this some before but uh specifically on that a recent center for strategic and international studies report projects that just generative AI alone could require up to 84 gigawatts of addition electricity
▶ 1:38:12by 2030, the equivalent of adding another Texas to the grid. So when you combine that with the growing demand from EVs, semiconductor fabrication plants, data centers, uh we're headed for a very massive strain on the infrastructure. You may have touched on this before, but if you could maybe put some more meat on the bone. Could you talk about what DOE is doing to ensure we have the generation capacity, permitting reform, grid resilience needed to support this demand, particularly in regions like Florida where just our growth alone is already outstripping our production capabilities?
▶ 1:38:41Yes, great question. And and and let me give one background comment. Look, the United States industrial powerhouse of the world for about a century. The last full year we have data on we consumed 25 exigels for manufacturing in our country. Forget the unit, it's a lot of jewels. But the the relative thing is what matters. China consumed 70. So almost three times as much energy is consumed manufacturing in China than the United States. That for 100 years we led in that category.
▶ 1:39:12And we've made it hard to permit things in the United States, hard to get air permits, hard to build big infrastructure outside of the Texas, Louisiana, Gulf Coast. And so what has that industry done? It's all gone mostly to Asia and and the largest piece to China. This is not good for the economy of our country. It's not good for the environment. It's certainly not good for our national security. So the next energyintensive manufacturing industry is AI. A lot of people don't think of it that, but that's what it is.
▶ 1:39:39It takes a lot of energy in the highest and most expensive form of energy electricity to manufacture intelligence of very high value. So yes, we need to have that here which means we need to grow our electricity production a lot in this country. And a lot of citizens are worried about that. They look at the last four years and say wow the US grew electricity production about 2% in the four years of the Biden administration and prices went up over 20%.
▶ 1:40:07And now you're telling us we're going to grow our electricity production by 10% or so. How much are prices going to go up? I don't want that to happen in my country or in my community. And so our answer to that is we're going to grow energy production, electricity production more than supply. And therefore, we can accommodate the growth of AI and cap the rise in prices. Now, a lot of that that price rise was all self-inflicted wounds. There's no shortage of energy. That's the government putting their finger on the scale.
▶ 1:40:36The more cheap energy we build, the more expensive our grid gets. Like that that just that tells you that the the expression cheap energy is is is just false. Um referring to unreliable intermittent energy sources there across the board. They make electricity more expensive. So we need to be reasonable and get out of the way and allow people to build energy sources that are reliable, firm, and secure to power their data centers.
▶ 1:41:03and everyone we're dialoguing with is build a little bit more capacity than you're going to use. In fact, even if they build at their peak demand, uh our grid, the most important part of our grid is to meet peak demand when it's super cold at they can throttle back a little bit and feed a little electricity into the grid at peak demand times.
▶ 1:41:23So I actually think the big buildout that's needed to win the AI race is actually going to be a positive for our grid, but only if we allow the building of of of so much new capacity of different sources. But of course, the biggest source of electricity in the US today is natural gas. In uh in Florida, it's 75% of Florida's electricity.
▶ 1:41:44Um, and it's also why Florida has half the electricity price of California and produces 25% more electricity with a population only a little more than half of Californians. Well done, Florida. Well, thank you for that Chamber of Commerce announcement there and that's why we're getting so many Californians moving to Florida.
▶ 1:42:03And I I've heard you mention before that it is going to be an all the above approach and and the different sources and I was appreciative of your comments on nuclear on the small module reactors and we've absolutely got to get regulatory burden out of the way to make that happen. But uh I'm over time now and thank you Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Thank the gentleman for his questions. Uh at this time I'd like to recognize uh my friend from Florida, Miss Debbie Washman Schultz. Thank you. Five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Wright. It's nice to see you. Uh thanks for joining us.
▶ 1:42:31Uh, Congress passed and the president signed into law billions in funding for energy efficiency, grid modernization, and other programs designed to lower costs for consumers and strengthen our energy infrastructure. But the Trump administration froze nearly all Department of Energy funding. And even now, more than 67 billion remains frozen. This is in clear defiance of both congressional intent and multiple court orders. And it's not a theoretical delay.
▶ 1:42:56Um, I I I we're talking about shovel ready projects tied to contracts with American businesses that will result in energy bill savings for families, all of which your department is blocking. So, can you explain under what legal authority you continue to withhold these funds? And will you commit right now to release this money immediately or do you intend to continue violating the law and hurting our American families? Uh, thank you, Congresswoman. Uh, we're in compliance with the law in everything we do.
▶ 1:43:24We're not withholding any funds and we've paid every invoice we've had for work done and funds that are due. So the premise of the question is wrong. I'm happy to go into the evaluations we're doing now on future funding.
▶ 1:43:37reclaiming my time for a moment because I knew you were going to say that and I'm happy to go through the energy programs that you are with currently withholding funds for um so that we can all understand the difference between what you're referring to and what I'm referring to.
▶ 1:43:56Um, let me just scroll down so that I can the um, you have $2 billion frozen for the Office of Fossil Energy and Carbon Management. You have $7.6 billion in frozen funds for the Office of Manufacturing and Energy Supply Chains. You have $735 million for the Office of Nuclear Energy Frozen.
▶ 1:44:22You have $14 billion from the for the office of state and community energy programs frozen. You have 11.3 billion for the grid deployment office frozen. You have should I go on? I mean all of these programs you must define what frozen is because there's no money being withheld. So what does frozen mean? meaning the funds are not are being withheld not released to the recipients for contracts that are were have been leted and that are being targeted for cancellation.
▶ 1:44:52So I mean I just read all of those programs. There are more. Um so what legal authority do you have when Congress has appropriated these funds and they are not subject to your review before release? What legal authority do you have to hold those funds? We're not withholding those funds. Okay. Well, I just read you a list of funds that are held. Where where did the list come from? And and how do you define them as held? What do you mean by held? As in like not released. I mean, it's a standard dictionary definition.
▶ 1:45:21if we've appropriated the funds and the Department of Energy is supposed to release them to the recipients and they have not received them and they're not getting answers. Now, I'm happy to follow up with you to make sure that you understand which programs we're talking about, but for the front for the $67 billion that remain frozen that we've identified that that have been identified, what legal authority do you have to hold on to those funds?
▶ 1:45:48And if you don't ha if you haven't done it, um, then you're saying that there is no legal authority for you to hold funds that Congress has appropriated and you agree and you've released released funds and somehow I have incorrect information. Yeah, I I think your information is not correct, Congresswoman, and we should follow up.
▶ 1:46:07But yes, we we administer funds that are appropriated by Congress through hundreds, in fact, in thousands of contracts with various uh players that are on the other end of those deals. And we have ongoing work with with lots of companies. We're we are paying bills as they become due and we are engaging with all of those folks on the the next milestones for their payments. Okay.
▶ 1:46:30So then you understand that if Congress has appropriated funds and the and in addition a court has ordered you to release those funds that you're supposed to do that. So when I follow up with you and show you funds that are still frozen, then we can expect to see those funds released once we point those out to you. If if you show us a contract we have with a party and they've done work and we haven't paid it, absolutely.
▶ 1:46:59We pay our bills and we follow the law. We are following all of the laws where we stand today and we are working with hundreds say actually thousands of counterparts on this. Of course, we are being responsible stewards of that money and engaging with these parties to make sure American taxpayer monies are being spent in thoughtful, reasonable ways that are going to better the energy systems for our country and advance technology and all of that.
▶ 1:47:24So, we're responsible stewards of the of the money, which when I walked into the place was certainly not the case in the two and a half months time. Every day that this money remains frozen. Real families are facing high utility bills. Local businesses delay or cancel clean energy projects.
▶ 1:47:41And so I hope you're prepared prepared to take responsibility for the consequences of of those decisions and also follow up specifically and point out to me why funds are still frozen and release those funds when it's very clear that you're violating the law by holding on to them. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time. Uh at this time we are going to begin Mr. Secretary, a very brief in the interest of time um second round and abbreviated second round.
▶ 1:48:12U I'm actually going to defer my my questions and just make a a a comment in support of the office of science and our great national labs. You've been very strong in in in your visits to the labs and your meeting with labs directors and your strong support for the great national labs. I represent the Oakidge National Lab which actually does every function that a national lab has in its portfolio. And again, I thank you for your visit there.
▶ 1:48:39And I my my comment is is is we've seen the general budget and uh I would like to work with you to to make sure that we see some type of an increase there. You've got a very arduous task to come forth with a budget on sever several different things and I'm fully cognizant of that. But just wanted you to know that my strong support for the national labs is there. Uh with that I'm going to recognize again my colleague. Oh, Miss Captor is back. Very good.
▶ 1:49:08U Miss Captor, we're going to do a very brief abbreviated second round. I think only Mr. New House on our side is going to ask, but I wanted to recognize you um for a second round of questions for five minutes if you desire. Thank you, Mr. chairman very much. You know, it's sad the way we're functioning. We're trying to ask important questions and we want to hear your answers, Mr.
▶ 1:49:34Secretary, but the way these hearings have been structured today, we have three simultaneous hearings, defense, agriculture, and energy. And we're being squished into this tourniquet. And it's not fair to you, and it's not fair to the American people, and it's not fair to members. And I know this chairman didn't do it, but I don't like it because we can't get into the level of detail that we need to do. And it's all part of this squeeze by the new administration. You're a businessman. You operate on a regular schedule.
▶ 1:50:05What's happening here is wrong. I'm willing to work till midnight any night to get into every single account that we need to get into and to figure out what's happening in this country. But the process has been defined by people above our pay grade and it's not fair to the American people. Okay. Now, one of my questions is how many people currently work at the US Department of Energy? A little less than 16,000 are government 16,000.
▶ 1:50:35And how many did how many worked when you got there? How many were there when you got there? A little more than 16,000. So, how many people do you think of left uh to date? Uh a relatively number. Few percent. Low single digits. 2%. A few percent. Low single digits. But it it's uh uh congresswoman, it's it's in flux right now.
▶ 1:51:00We're looking at how to restructure the department, how to make it more efficient, how to focus it on its key missions, and we're doing that in a sort of slow, deliberative, thoughtful way. and the changes in headcount within the department will be done dominantly by voluntary uh retirements and this delayed resignation programs. We're trying to make it for people to choose if they're no longer aligned or they don't want to be at the department anymore.
▶ 1:51:28We want to give them a uh uh kind as possible way to move on to the next chapter of their career. But that takes time and that's choice from employees in the department. So we're we're moving we're moving in a at in a deliberate measured pace. Have you been given an order to reduce the size of your department?
▶ 1:51:51We've been given a mandate by from from the whole administration to look at look like a businessman at all the departments and figure out how you can deliver improved services at lower cost and efficiencies for for the simple reason that our government for every dollar we collect in tax revenues we spend over a$125.
▶ 1:52:11So, we've got to be more responsible of the taxpayer monies and and my department, for example, sorry for the long answer, grew 20% under the last four years of the administration uh under the last administration, but energy prices rose in the country and our energy output in DOE related things didn't meaningfully improve. So, I'm a believer that with a leaner, more focused team, we can deliver better results, but we're slow and deliberate in getting there.
▶ 1:52:39Um it seems to be done rather quickly uh over a couple months. Uh that's kind of unusual even for a business. Uh maybe if you are letting go uh individuals who have picked the strawberries and they're not going to get the next crop, you know, for another six months or something. Uh that's pretty clear and you can anticipate it. But this does seem to be a rather unusual process.
▶ 1:53:06Are you responding to the Doge team or is this something that's coming from OM? Where where's the order for this coming from? This this is the whole administration saying we owe it to the American taxpayers to be more responsible stewards of their money and to move our gigantic government deficit that's a threat to my kids and particularly my new grandchild. We've got to just be smarter about doing that. But for in our case, certainly it's not been in two months. We're still in the midst of it right now.
▶ 1:53:35now and I've been working on it since the day I walked in the office. But those decisions are being made by the leadership at the department. Of course, we're getting help and support on understanding various cost centers. How can we centralize it? How can we do centralized functions, get the same stuff more efficiently? Um what what programs maybe are oversized for what they need to achieve? What programs are undersized? I I'm hearing you. Uh why is there no inspector general at your department?
▶ 1:54:04You spend a lot of money, you have a lot of power, a lot of economic power, a lot of scientific. Why is there no inspector general there? Uh there were I think there was a broad removal of inspector generals with the new administration and then I think we have not uh finished the administration has not finished appointing new inspector generals. We have complete accounting and complete books of everything we're doing. It's it uh it it will be all there for the public to see.
▶ 1:54:32I and I and I com complete and 100% comfort with that. Well, let me just say I come from a criminal state and I have seen absolute criminality in the field of nuclear power and also complete irresponsibility by the atomic energy commission in years past with the disposal of waste that is very dangerous in our area. We are just discovering more and more and more of it. So, I don't trust any department.
▶ 1:55:01And when you talk about having to balance budgets, honestly, uh budgets can be balanced in two ways. By revenue, and there are some really rich people in this country that are not paying their fair share. And we can look at tax cuts going back 35 years and begin to see who's paying and who's not paying. And it I think it's a tragedy for the country that the 20,000 individuals that the Internal Revenue Service wished to hire to go after the freeloaders, they were not allowed to hire.
▶ 1:55:31How about that? Wasn't that a good idea? So the freeloaders can keep freeloading and the middle class and the working class have to pay the load. So yes, we have a spending side, but we also have a revenue side. We're not talking about that. All right? And that affects everything we do because we want to provide you with the money that we need to do to keep pace in this world of today.
▶ 1:55:52Uh but this this charade we're going through right now is sophomoreic and I expect more of this country and I expect more of this committee and we don't set the rules. They're set above our pay grade. But I just want to say I'm uncomfortable. I don't like it this way because I got a lot more questions of you and I can't ask them because they're going to limit me on time. So, one of the things I have to ask about is my own district.
▶ 1:56:20I don't understand why um there was a project that was to be awarded to a glass company and for some reason it was pulled or it's sitting somewhere over there and it has caused all kinds of problems for the company. Um, you're a businessman. You would understand this if I can find the right sheet here. There's so many sheets of paper. Um, it's called Libby Glass and they have two furnaces.
▶ 1:56:48I come from an industrial part of America and life there's been hell for a long time because we forgot what the defense industrial base of this country really is and we've been trying to catch up, but it's been hard. And oh, here it is. Okay. So, the department had uh $6 billion in DOE investments that were leveraged with $14 billion of private sector investment.
▶ 1:57:15And one of those companies, Libby Glass, which gave me permission to even use I'm even afraid to use their name in public. They're a great company. They're a legacy company in our community. I'll start to cry. They're generous and they work hard.
▶ 1:57:29And um they are to replace four regenerative furnaces with two larger hybrid electric furnaces to reduce the carbon intensity of uh its Toledo, Ohio facility by up to And um the uh the department is considering cancelling more than 60% of their industrial demonstration projects which would
▶ 1:57:59be devastating to our community. And this is a company that never left the city. They didn't go out into the suburbs, okay, and break more ground. They're a responsible company. And for this award review and cancellation process, how is DOE or any part of your administration assessing which DOE projects will be cancelled or continued? What criteria are you using?
▶ 1:58:23And um even if DOE chooses not to cancel any of these awards, these actions are creating mass confusion. Um unemployment is going up in our area, by the way. Um and companies have canceled almost eight billion dollars in energy manufacturing projects so far just this year. Five times more than was canceled last year. So given your private sector background, what can you do to help me understand what is happening to this particular company in the review process?
▶ 1:58:53Where where are they? Representative Captor, I appreciate your passion for industrial America, keeping the industries we have, bringing new industries home. We are so aligned on that. It's one of the things I'm excited about this administration. We've outsourced so many of those jobs overseas. Yes, that's a demagog. I was lucky. I grew up in suburban America. Got a great education. I've had a dreamy life. I could have been born somewhere else. I could have had a very different life. I share your passion. Thank you. I share your passion.
▶ 1:59:23So, I think I mentioned briefly I walk into a department that I am very passionate about energy and all that. I wanna I want to do I want to support as many activities and projects as we can to save American industry and grow American industry. So fully aligned on that. I think I gave the numbers before, but I walked into a thing where a hundred billion dollars had been shoveled out the door in 76 days. I'm responsible for that money now, either in money out the door or committed to money to go out the door.
▶ 1:59:53I can't look at American taxpayers, including taxpayers in your district, and say, "Yes, we invested $2 billion and we built a bridge to nowhere. We built something and now it's just closed because it had no marketplace. It had nowhere to go." So, let me give you a quick little summary. So, the answer is we haven't any projects because we've been slow and careful and deliberative. We've developed a process and in the next few months, we will run hundreds of projects, including those through our thing.
▶ 2:00:20And if it's viable and it's going to create jobs and it's going to do these great things, we're going to support that project. And the simple little criterion we're looking at is legal. Um the technology, is the technology viable? Is the engineering done competently? Is there a market for the thing that's being built? Is there a financial model that that co-unding is coming in together with the DOE funding so the project can be complete? And does it add to national or economic security? It sounds like that one if if all the other things work certainly would. And it is aligned with this agenda.
▶ 2:00:48Cherry, thank you for that putting that on the record, but that was already approved. You are reviewing something that was all the appropriated money was already there. Those decisions had been made. So that is a very this is a very strange process uh because that those dollars were in uh to be spent um already as we work toward the 26 budget. So I just wanted to put that on the record.
▶ 2:01:15I know the chairman wants us to end this and I just want to say very quickly um you need an inspector general. You need one because there is criminality in energy and you don't want your neck to be on the line. That's my advice to you. You're a good man. You've led a good life. Um but um I will say this to the record. There is a film that's just come out on HBO about something happening in Ohio. It's been going on for a long time.
▶ 2:01:42The film is called The Dark Money Game, Ohio Confidential. The first film is two hours. It's about criminality in the nuclear energy industry. But what's interesting is the film concentrates on the type of crime, bribery, wire fraud, um, and so forth, and people going to jail for decades. All right.
▶ 2:02:03For, uh, appellet judges yesterday just ruled that they couldn't overturn their prison sentence sentences in nuclear in nuclear and the um interesting thing about the film is it looks at the types of crimes but it doesn't look at the nuclear danger. What is it about this industry that there's a cover up there's a cover up of the damage it can do.
▶ 2:02:30I support nuclear but not dangerous nuclear for commercial purposes. And this is the poster child for America's failure in commercial nuclear energy. And if we don't learn from it, we will have it happen again. All right? And nobody wants to talk about it. And I support the nuclear industry, but not criminality.
▶ 2:02:54And this ought to be a casebook study for every employee at the Department of Energy, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, feckless when it should have been doing its job. Who can I trust as one congresswoman from one out of 435 in this country that my district had to be the place where lives were put at risk? People have died from cancers. Okay? Pensions were taken away from workers. What kind of country is this and industry is this that we allow it?
▶ 2:03:23And yes, I'm passionate because I have to deal with it. Nobody else here has to deal with it. Thank you for listening. Watch the film. Everybody in this room, you're in charge. We're in charge. What have we allowed to happen in this country? Thank you very much. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Representative Captor. Uh, at this time, I'd like to rep uh recognize uh Representative New House for his final questions.
▶ 2:03:58U Thank you, Mr. secretary for your indulgence. I just had a couple more things I wanted to bring up real quickly. The first has to do with the Bonavville Power Administration and let me just say I do appreciate the efforts that are going in uh on behalf of the federal government by this administration to reduce spending. It's something we have to get a control of government waste and taxpayer funds. Those those are the things that we we have to pay particular responsibility to and time.
▶ 2:04:27Um however with the um Bonavville Power Administration that's that's an organization as you know that does not receive federal funds and they've been impacted by the uh by these efforts lost 200 employees up to date uh which is significant lots of institutional knowledge has gone out the door that's not easily replaced and certainly has a potential for all PMAs throughout the country to impact
▶ 2:04:57the um um operations and reliability of producing power for years to come. Um so I just wanted to bring that up ask you how these reductions have affected your agency and what kinds of precautions uh that you're taking to ensure that they don't uh impact the grid grid reliability and raise electricity costs.
▶ 2:05:21So great great question and and it it is a concern for for us as well in the in the department when we did our first sort of voluntary who wants to step out a drip we call it deferred resignation program to give pe to let people go out on the best possible terms. We had acceptance across the department from it. Um and we we granted those wishes of people that chose in.
▶ 2:05:46Then we did a second round that's been much bigger, but we've been specific at saying we can't have people leave um from Bonavville Power and the and the other power marketing agencies because it's I don't think we have room to reduce headcount there anymore. And so I think and when I arrived uh and I only learned this in the last you know few weeks that Bonnyville Power Administration was already below well below its sort of desired staffing.
▶ 2:06:15So absolutely true that gap was much bigger than the the one or 200 people that have left since then. It was already several hundred short. So there'll be no more shrinkage in headcount at at Bonville Power. And one of the key things there is to be is in all of these things is to make sure we're delivering on the mission make sure that that that thing is getting done that the power is being marketed transmitted and and and bettering the lives of the citizens all in that region.
▶ 2:06:39So I understand your concern there and we share it and and u good we keep I appreciate that even headcount flat there appreciate that commitment and then I wanted to jump to to another thing that very proud of in the state of Washington and that's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory as you as you probably know they're celebrating 60 years of scientific brilliance and I hope we can add that to your list of things you're going to have to be in Washington for a few days you know that don't you? I do. I do and I'm okay with that.
▶ 2:07:08I've climbed many mountains in Washington and that that that took several days as well. Well, the lab uh it's focused on addressing some of the most complex national issues that we have, the challenges that we're trying to meet. It also conducts important research for the energy efficiency and renewable energy programs as well as nuclear and nonp proliferation. So, lots of crucial funding um in offices of the EERE, Office of Science.
▶ 2:07:36Um the skinny budget proposals u are significant cuts to these areas. I just want to uh make you aware of this and ask you about what what actions you could take to ensure that the lab and all our labs actually throughout the country uh have the resources necessary to continue all their important work. Yeah, and I think that was basically the criterion in developing the budget.
▶ 2:08:02We don't want to shrink or stop any of the critical research in our national labs. You know, from cyber security that that PNA is so strong at to, you know, fusion energy to advanced computing, artificial intelligence, basic fundamental physics, all of these things will go on virtually unimpacted. We had had certainly over the last several years a growth of what I would sort of call political science. we want you to work on this problem because it's part of our messaging or it's part of our campaign.
▶ 2:08:32Universities have been overrun with science that, you know, politically sounds good. So students drift into that and we're seeing a shrinkage of the percent of people in technology that are in sort of hard fundamental basic technology that enables everything else.
▶ 2:08:47And so this is really and this is together with the labs to kind of just not touch the hard science, not touch the basic science, not touch the stuff we did 10 years ago or 30 years ago or going to do 10 years from now, but to trim out the the fluff that that we've been working on. So I I I think the future of our natural labs is very bright and that and the scientific and and and substantiative output from the labs will not be reduced. Good.
▶ 2:09:15Again, thanks for coming to the committee and we look forward to having you come out to the state of Washington. Thank you. Thank you, Representative New. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you, Mr. Leven. You're recognized to close. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And since everybody's inviting you, Mr. Secretary, I have to invite you to the great state of California and to come out and see the Sanopre nuclear generating station. Look forward to working with you on that. I wanted to ask about uh something that my uh friend from Indiana uh Congressman Murvan brought up, which is the hydrogen hubs.
▶ 2:09:43And and specifically, I wanted to make sure that uh you had received a bipartisan letter that we had sent on April the 7th uh about our hub in California called Arches. It's a great project to boost energy security. Obviously, we want to decarbonize things that are uh you know, very tough to to do like steel and shipping and trucking, great American innovation uh in a more resilient future.
▶ 2:10:12Uh I would love to get any input that you might have. I know you said that um you know, you're reviewing all these things. I know you've got a lot of incoming, but we would be very grateful to have a reply uh to that bipartisan letter that we sent about a month ago and just get a sense of uh you know, your thoughts on the hubs and specifically on Arches. Yes. Uh and and again, I'm very cautious about giving answers when I don't really have an answer.
▶ 2:10:40You know, I've assembled a team and a process that's that's not political, that's not uh it's not focused on buzzwords. It's just a business technology business and end market overview of projects. You know, we want if we're going to invest a lot of money, we want something at the other end that's going to go forward that's going to have customers and offtakers and move on with it.
▶ 2:11:02Um, you mentioned that that the hydrogen hub there particularly focused on decarbonization and that's, you know, greenhouse gas emissions in the United States on a per capita basis are lower than any year since I was born. So we have had market forces driving decarbonization. Wealthier countries in general move to less carbon intensive energy systems and I think this is a positive and I think you'll see a continuation of that trend. And so things on decarbonization is more about what's the cost.
▶ 2:11:31What's the what's the dollar per avoided ton of CO2 equivalent emission and is it and and if that dollar per ton is low and market forces buyers of those products or users of that will pay that that cost to drive that process that's great that's technology at work and customers coming into a marketplace to drive things forward so that's basically the criterion is the technology viable what does the engineering show what does it look like the end cost might
▶ 2:12:01be. Is there a marketplace of people willing to pay that cost? That's the, you know, we're letting kind of the the marketplace of businesses and people to decide what's what's viable and not what what's viable, not what we like or what we don't like. It's just sort of an objective business and technological evaluation. When do you anticipate we might get a reply? This summer. This summer. I I I wish it was faster.
▶ 2:12:24you know, in the hundred days, you know, one of one of my things that slowed me down is getting people getting qualified business professionals inside of the house and then develop a independent thing that every project will go through the same thing um and and we'll get results out. But that that is now rolling. People are in there and so it's it's you know I I wish it would have been last month but to me it's more important to get sort of the right answers because we've got limited amount of resources, right? We want to get the greatest bang for the buck for every resource, you know, we deploy.
▶ 2:12:55I I share your your desire to get the greatest bang for the buck. I guess I want to unpack or understand a little bit about how you evaluate the cost benefit of different uh types of electricity generation. So before you you talked about uh geothermal uh being something that was uh intriguing to you. I don't want to mischaracterize what you said, but you know, relatively low uh cost and and high benefit. Uh we've talked a lot about nuclear.
▶ 2:13:20Of course, nuclear has a very high levelized cost of energy, new nuclear compared to certain other uh sources, but also has, you know, significant benefits too. We got to fix the uh the back end of the fuel cycle, as I will repeatedly say. Yes. Um can you speak to, you know, how you evaluate other sources of electricity? You know, we talked a bit about solar. I'd love to get your thoughts on, you know, I I want to figure out how we can best work with you is what I'm trying to say. Yes. Yeah. So again, great question as were your previous ones.
▶ 2:13:50So there it's I think the key thing on electricity, electricity is complicated. So it's more difficult than other things because everything fits into a big complicated system and what matters is the system cost. Like you use the term levelized cost of electricity and I have been for years, you know, a virulent critic of that term because because it treats electricity as if it's like your gas tank. You put a little bit in and you take a little bit out and you put a little bit. It's just not how electricity works.
▶ 2:14:19At every moment in time, you have to balance supply and demand. So, the most critical design for an electricity grid is at peak demand. You got to supply electricity at peak demand or people die. Texas lost over 200 people by not meeting electricity at peak demand. They died in our country. Think of how we'd feel with 250 additional murders. And so an inauguration day here in PJM, 65 million people, 13 states, 4 a.m.
▶ 2:14:48was peak demand for PJM this year. And at that time we got 44% of the electricity from gas, 22% from coal, 22% from nuclear, 6% from hydro, 4% from oil. That tells you the grid was very tight. 2% from wind and 0% from solar. So when someone tells me solar, you know, when it produces electricity and you divide by all the costs, it's cheap. Well, it's it's but what is it doing when the sun is shining and it's giving electricity?
▶ 2:15:18It just means all the other kit has to reduce its output because all that other kit has to be there at 4:00 a.m. on January 21 or in this case thousands of people would have died, would have frozen to death. So to me, it's about the system cost. I'm I'm over time, but I would like to invite you out to California because there may be some people with a different point of view and it would be good to hear your interactions with them. Would you commit to that? Oh, absolutely.
▶ 2:15:43I love nothing I love nothing more to engage and in fact I will be in the Bay Area uh very end of May visiting uh Slack, Lawrence Livermore, and Lawrence Berkeley Labs. Um yeah, and and I'll I'll be I'll be there for several days. Now, I'm biased towards Southern California. So, we got to invite you.
▶ 2:16:01I think I'm briefly going to be at the Reagan Library in Southern California as well, like at the end of that trip to California, but yes, passionate about this and I love to engage with people that have different perspectives as me on energy. That's how I learn. Thank you. Appreciate it. I'll yield back over time. Thank you, Congressman. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, Mr. Secretary, I want to thank you. I begin with profound thanks to you today when you came here.
▶ 2:16:28Um, we've had a long hearing and I know it's it's gone a bit over time, but um, you're doing a great job. You've got a difficult job to do. Uh, you have faced our questions or tough questions with candid, honest answers and great enthusiasm. Um, and we want to thank you and your outstanding staff. I know you have a new chief of staff. We welcome him. Look forward to working with him.
▶ 2:16:52I would like to please ensure that the hearing record questions for the record and any supporting information requested by the subcommittee are delivered in final form to us no later than four weeks from the time that you receive them. Members who have additional questions and there may be uh for the record will have until the close of business next Wednesday to provide them to the subcommittee. With that, the subcommittee stands adjourned. you. Thank you.
▶ 2:32:04I'm doing you have recommendations in Burlington. Yeah, I've heard about I say I say Laura.
▶ 2:32:44Right. Exactly.
▶ 2:33:27Oh yeah. Bring that back to the office.