▶ 0:13:44The committee will now come to order and without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recesses of the committee at any time. Welcome to today's hearing entitled From Policy to Progress: How the National Quantum Initiative Shapes US Quantum Technology Leadership. I now recognize uh myself for five minutes for an opening statement. And good morning to you all.
▶ 0:14:07I'm sorry I didn't have time to come down and shake your hand, but good morning and thank you for joining us to discuss an incredibly important and forward-looking topic, America's leadership in quantum science and technology. I appreciate our witnesses uh sharing their time and expertise as we examine this cutting edge area of science, one with the potential to fundamentally transform computing, communications, sensing, and our understanding of our physical world.
▶ 0:14:377 years after President Trump signed the National Quantum Initiative Act, I am pleased to report that the United States has firmly established itself as a formidable leader in the quantum sector. The NQIA elevated quantum information science to a national priority, attracting top talent and driving investments in the field.
▶ 0:14:58The quantum centers established under NQIA have become innovation hubs, fostering collaboration between academia, industry, and government while advancing fundamental quantum science research. Our our universities, national labs, and private enterprises have made impressive progress in quantum computing hardware, algorithms, networking, and sensing technologies.
▶ 0:15:23As we will hear from our witnesses, quantum computing has evolved from devices with dozens of cubits to systems nearing quantum advantage and specific applications. We have seen the development of more stable cubits with longer coherence times and lower error rates alongside promising quantum algorithms for chemistry uh material science and optimization problems.
▶ 0:15:47Fundamental research in quantum mechanics, photo photonics, quantum sensing and metrology underpins these advances. Federal agencies including the DOE's Office of Science and National Laboratories, NSF and NIST play a crucial role in conducting and supporting this work.
▶ 0:16:06Global competition in quantum research development and technology is increasing with countries like China, the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, and Australia making significant advances. And while the United States currently leads in quantum computing hardware and algorithms, China has made notable strides in quantum communications, including launching the world's first quantum communication satellite. However, the global quantum race is more than academic.
▶ 0:16:35It is a competition for 21st century technological supremacy with major implications for America's economic strength and our national security. Quantum Technologies holds immense economic potential.
▶ 0:16:50According to the Quantum Economic Development Consortiums QEDC C 2025 state of the global quantum industry report, the global quantum market is projected to reach 1.88 billion this year, a 27.3% increase from just last year alone.
▶ 0:17:10Quantum technologies could revolutionize industries from accelerating drug development in to advancing mineral exploration, environmental monitoring, and medical diagnostics. Quantum information science is also vital to our national security. If exploited by adversaries, it could jeopardize government communications, financial systems, and critical infrastructure by breaking current encryption methods.
▶ 0:17:38In contrast, quantum resistant cryptography and quantum key distribution ensure secure communications against quantum attacks. Additionally, quantum sensing technologies could dramatically enhance military navigation, timing, and detection capabilities. Nations that lead in quantum computing will gain drastic intelligence advantages, making it critical that we not fall behind strategic challengers like China.
▶ 0:18:06As global competitors race ahead, the US must bolster its strategic and collaborative efforts to stay in front. We must use taxpayer dollars more effectively by leveraging private sector investment to propel quantum discoveries and develop realworld applications.
▶ 0:18:25In a recent letter to White House OSTP Director Michael Katzios, President Trump called for revitalizing America's science and technology enterprise by pursuing truth, cutting red tape, and empowering our researchers. I look very much forward to working with the president and director Kratzios to accomplish these goals, including reauthorizing the NQIA to cement America's leadership in the quantum science domain.
▶ 0:18:54Lastly, I would be remiss if I did not address the president's recent skinny budget proposal. This marks the beginning of the budget process and opening dialogue. Uh not a final decision at all. This is, as the GAO recently warned, America's fiscal health is at risk and without course correction, we could jeopardize our science and technology future and go over a fiscal cliff. Congress holds the power of the purse and I will review this proposal very thoroughly.
▶ 0:19:24However, I was pleased that the administration proposed maintaining funding for quantum R&D at current levels including at the NSF and the DOE. Thank you again for our to our witnesses for being here today. And I am ready for a productive discussion. And now I'd like to uh call on the gentleoman, the ranking member from California for her statement. Thank you, Mr. chairman for today's hearing.
▶ 0:19:49I'd also like to welcome our distinguished panel of witnesses, including two leading quantum companies headquartered in Silicon Valley, my home, Google and Sai Quantum, Dr. Chow and Dr. Chad Bolt, and the rest of the witnesses. Thank you for volunteering your time and expertise before the committee today. When the science committee developed and enacted the National Quantum Initiative Act of 2018, the global race for quantum dominance was already decades in the making.
▶ 0:20:19Agencies like NSF, NIST, and DOE had long invested in basic quantum information science at federal labs and universities across the country. Innovative companies like those represented on the panel today were already beginning to build quantum computers. Other countries, allies and adversaries alike, were also making significant investments. We were confident then it was time for Congress to act.
▶ 0:20:45And years later, we know with certainty that the quantum initiative played an important role in galvanizing the US science community around quantum technologies and f focusing the efforts of our federal agencies. In these seven years, the United States has built increasingly advanced quantum technologies. spun out new companies and continued to lead the world in quantum development and commercialization.
▶ 0:21:12It's past time to strengthen the NQIA by reauthorizing this important legislation and I look forward to partner partnering with the chairman in this effort. A few weeks ago, I met with several California state legislators who uh are seeking to establish a quantum economic zone in California to capitalize and build on our existing strengths in both academia and industry. I applaud this bipartisan effort.
▶ 0:21:40And it's not just in California we see this kind of effort. Regions across the country recognize the economic development that will come from investments in the quantum industrial base. As with any new technology, even as we tout the potential, we must also be openeyed about the challenges and limitations. If we compare quantum computing to regular computing, we may be at the mainframe stage of development.
▶ 0:22:05Companies like Sciquantum are actively building several next generation quantum systems and I'm excited to hear more about their work today. However, to get to the next stage of development, the multi-purpose quantum computer, we will need significant advances in basic and applied quantum research, we'll need the infrastructure in academia, government, and industry to facilitate this research.
▶ 0:22:31Moreover, we will need a science and engineering workforce capable of developing and operating quantum technologies to fill the workforce gaps that companies uh may face today. The administration claims to support quantum research funding in its budget proposal, but in practice, the president is actively cutting fields of research and STEM training programs that underpin our nation's quantum industry.
▶ 0:22:56In the past month, NSF has terminated 1,500 active grants, including multiple awards in physics and engineering education. In other words, the fields that make up the backbone of the multidisciplinary quantum workforce. They even terminated one award focused directly on quantum education. It was called building educational growth for industry learning.
▶ 0:23:20This NSF award was devoted to providing scalable exper experiential learning experiences in quantum literacy, quantum AI and machine learning to build the next generation of quantum uh technicians. This award was terminated because it committed the sin of including women and historically underrepresented students as program participants.
▶ 0:23:43I think we're fooling ourselves if we think we can support quantum leadership while uh helping to destroy the workforce that feeds into the quantum industry. I call on my cal colleagues on both sides of our uh political divide to exercise our constitutional responsibilities to push back against these devastating and possibly illegal actions. Hopefully, we can continue to find bipartisanship in our support for US quantum leadership.
▶ 0:24:13But such efforts must strengthen our overall science enterprise, not embark down a path of trying to pick winners or losers or we will surely lose everything. This committee has a long uh history of bipartisan collaboration. Mr. Chairman, I look forward to working with you uh to advance uh in this area. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, Ranking Member Lofrren.
▶ 0:24:37Uh we have a number of letters from stakeholders that I would like to request be entered into the record on behalf of ranking member Loofrren and myself and I ask unanimous consent that letters from IBM, the quantum industry coalition, D-Wave SEK and ITI's quantum technology policy guide be submitted for the record. And so without objection so ordered. Get this. Thank you. Now, I'd like to recognize Representative Fushi of North Carolina to introduce our first witness.
▶ 0:25:08Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is indeed my honor to introduce Dr. Celia Mertzbacher, executive director of the Quantum Economic Development Consortium QED-C, a global industry-driven consortium managed by SRRI International that aims to enable and grow the quantum industry. Dr.
▶ 0:25:29Merbacher has more than two decades of experience as a leader of large multidisciplinary partnerships and programs at the intersection of government, industry, and academia. She is also a product of my district, North Carolina's fourth, where we attended high school together at Chapel Hill High School.
▶ 0:25:50She then went on to begin her career as a scientist at the US Naval Research Laboratory and today she is a national leader on quantum technology. We are pleased and honored to welcome her here today. Well, thank you, Congresswoman. Uh very nice of you to make that introduction and thank you chairman uh Babin and uh ranking member Lofrren and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in today's hearing.
▶ 0:26:20Quantum is having a moment. 2025 has been designated the international year of quantum science and technology, celebrating 100 years since the initial development of quantum mechanics. The growing ability to control quantum phenomena is leading to technologies and applications with enormous economic value. Countries worldwide are racing to get the lead. With quantum in the spotlight, now is the time to assess the US position and take steps to make sure the United States wins that race.
▶ 0:26:50I'm Celia Merzbacher, executive director of the Quantum Economic Development Consortium or QEDC. QEDC is the consortium of stakeholders that was called for in the National Quantum Initiative Act of 2018. We're a public private partnership. We're supported by NIST, but our operations are predominantly paid for by our private sector members. All of the uh companies represented today are among those. There are roughly 230 QEDC members today.
▶ 0:27:19About 70% are corporate and about threearters of those are small to midsize companies or startups. In addition, there are more than 50 government agencies that have engaged actively with QEDC. So, we really are public and private uh getting together. QEDC's mission is to grow the quantum economy.
▶ 0:27:39With active participation by our members, we're identifying use cases and future markets for quantum technologies for government and commercial customers, as well as gaps that need to be filled, gaps in critical enabling technologies, gaps in standards and benchmarks, and gaps in the quantum workforce. In addition, we provide input on behalf of the quantum industry on policies such as export controls and immigration.
▶ 0:28:06QEDC is also a trusted voice for credible datadriven information. In March, as was uh mentioned earlier, we released the first state of the global quantum industry report with key metrics that characterize the size and impact of the global quantum economy. today. The report provides an analysis of the number and geographic distribution of companies, investments, markets, workforce, and patents. The quantum economy is real.
▶ 0:28:34There are businesses, products, and jobs today, and it's growing. Our report shows that the United States currently leads in many of the metrics, but other countries are not standing still. for US quantum companies large and small who are developing quantum sensors, quantum networks and computers as well as those who are part of the quantum supply chain. The following issues are top of mind.
▶ 0:29:02One, access to funding for R&D, especially at small to midsize companies. Authorities already exist. SBIRS are a great source of seed funding and that program should be reauthorized. But followon funding could be allocated using prototyping otaas for example similar to the national spectrum consortium. Two access to infrastructure especially facilities for fabricating characterizing and testing prototypes.
▶ 0:29:31Building this now is essential to ensure the quantum manufacturing takes root here and that we do not have to spend billions in the future to reshore it. Three, access to customers. This is probably the number one thing for all these companies. Markets are small and frankly the killer app has not yet been identified. The government can help to build a bridge to the quantum enabled industries of the future by being an early customer.
▶ 0:29:58Modest commitments today will accelerate progress and importantly send a signal that can unleash private capital as well. Advanced market commitments to buy systems that meet certain specifications could promote such private investments. Four, access to talent. We must create a quantum ready workforce with a diversity of skills from PhDs to technicians for jobs in industry, but also academia and government. Five, access to partners and partnerships.
▶ 0:30:28Our members report they are entering into more partnerships to access the necessary expertise and capabilities. The nation has enormous resources at its national labs, advanced manufacturing institutes, and universities. agencies can prioritize strengthening industry partnerships with those government funded entities and make it easier for those partnerships to form and be productive.
▶ 0:30:51The INQI has built a solid foundation of multidisciplinary research to advance quantum science and to train the muchneeded quantum workforce. The national quantum coordination office provides strong coordination across agencies that are promoting quantum and those that have a responsibility to protect national interests. These act activities should be vigorously sustained.
▶ 0:31:11the reauthorization of the ENQI or with the reauthorization there's an opportunity to fill gaps that have formed in the last six years especially to ensure engagement with and support for the fledgling quantum sensing quantum communications and quantum computing industries. I'll conclude by encouraging you, your staff and federal agencies to leverage QEDC which your committee had the foresight to create and which is dedicated to growing the US economy. Thank you and I look forward to your questions. Thank you Dr. Merchbacher. And next we have Dr.
▶ 0:31:41Karina Chow. Uh Dr. Chow is the uh chief operating officer at Google Quantum AI. Uh she previously led public policy and communications for emerging technologies at Google. Dr. Chow holds a BS in chemistry from Stanford University and a PhD in physical chemistry from UC Berkeley. So you're recognized for five minutes, Dr. Chow. Thank you, Chairman Babin.
▶ 0:32:08uh ranking member Loofrren and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. My name is Karina Chow and I am director and chief operating officer at Google quantum AI. We really appreciate the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology holding this important hearing and look forward to sharing more about Google's work in quantum computing. Quantum computers can solve problems that AI and supercomputers cannot.
▶ 0:32:33The National Quantum Initiative has helped to develop this technology and its reauthorization is critical to continued US leadership. The US currently leads the development of quantum computing and Google has the most advanced state-of-the-art quantum computing effort anywhere in the world. We are proud to fabricate our quantum chips at our dedicated superconducting fabrication facility in Santa Barbara, California. And we are proud that all of our quantum computing hardware is developed in California.
▶ 0:33:03We believe quantum computers can help to shape a brighter future, solving otherwise impossible problems in the fields of drug discovery, industrial chemistry, energy, and more. These applications will have far-reaching impacts for the economy and for national security. We're optimistic that within the next 5 years, we will see real world applications that are only possible on computers. Quantum computers are extraordinary. They harness the power of quantum mechanical properties found in nature.
▶ 0:33:32Unlike traditional computers which use the language of zeros and ones to find solutions one by one, quantum computers harness the properties of nature to really identify and identify and consider different options at the time. Building a quantum computer is an ambitious task that no one company or country can achieve alone. While Google and others have made impressive progress in recent years, quantum computing is still a nent industry and we must collaborate together across sectors.
▶ 0:34:03For example, our cubits are composed of superconducting materials patterned into special nonlinear elements called Josephson junctions. These superconducting integrated circuits are advanced technologies that stem from the unique ecosystem in the United States between government, academia, and The foundational work for Joseph and Junctions was performed at the National Institute of Standards and Technology. Our quantum hardware effort grew out of a group at the University of California, Santa Barbara.
▶ 0:34:33Critical funding came from the private sector as well as the Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Agency, the National Nanotechnology Initiative, and the National Quantum Initiative. Today, Google quantum AI collaborates with over 100 partners in the private sector, in government and academia, including strategic partners.
▶ 0:34:54Uh, Google Quantum AI believes the full potential of quantum computers will be achieved with a fullscale error corrected quantum computer and we are working very hard to build that computer. We've outlined six milestones to that goal and you can see some of our chips here in the display. In 2019, we achieved milestone one um the first chip here showing for the first time that a quantum computer could outperform a classical supercomputer on a benchmark task.
▶ 0:35:23In 2023, we achieved milestone 2, the second chip here, showing for the first time that quantum error correction, which is critical to real world applications, is possible and can be improved as we scale up the size of the chip. Last year, we built upon both of these milestones, achieving two landmark feats with our 105 cubit Willow chip, the third chip shown here in the display.
▶ 0:35:50First, Willow is capable of running a benchmark task in a few minutes, what would take one of the world's fastest supercomputers, 10 septillion years, a number that vastly uh exceeds the age of the universe. Second, Willow is capable of below threshold error correction, solving a decadesl long problem in the field.
▶ 0:36:11Willow's performance is a strong sign that useful quantum computers can indeed be built, and Google is proud to recognize our longstanding uh and substantial investments in the United States. Our next target is milestone 3, a logical cubit capable of 1 million computational steps with less than one error.
▶ 0:36:32And as we look further ahead to unlocking the full potential of quantum computing, we will need to continue to scale up our quantum systems from about 100 physical cubits today to about 1 million physical cubits. We will also need to continue to improve the quality of our cubits by many orders of magnitude. We are excited about what quantum computing means for the future of Google and the world.
▶ 0:36:54Our vision is that one day people will use classical computers and quantum computers side by side to advance the boundaries of human knowledge and to solve some of the world's most complex problems. We believe the work of this committee and the reauthorization of the National Quantum Initiative will be critical to continued American leadership in quantum computing. Thank you for convening this important hearing. We look forward to continued partnership to advance American leadership in this transformative space. Thank you, Dr. Chow.
▶ 0:37:25Fascinating. Our next witness is Dr. Pete Shadbolt. Dr. Shadbolt is co-founder and chief scientific officer at Sai Quantum. Uh Dr. Shadbolt has a PhD in experimental quantum photonics from the University of Bristol and completed a postdocck and the theory group at Imperial College in London. In 2016, Pete and his co-founders moved to PaloAlto, uh, California to start Sai Quantum. So, you're recognized for five minutes, Dr.
▶ 0:37:57Shadbolt. Thank you. Um, Chairman Babin, Ranking Member Lorren, uh, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to offer testimony on the state of American quantum computing industry and to support the National Quantum Initiative reauthorization. My name is Pete Shabbalt. I'm co-founder and chief scientific officer of at Quantum.
▶ 0:38:21Uh prior to founding the company in 2016, I was a researcher in the UK where I worked on phetonic quantum computing for about a decade. Eight years ago, together with three of my former professors, I quit my academic job and moved to the United States with a singular mission to build and deploy the first large-scale commercially useful quantum computers.
▶ 0:38:45We established our headquarters in the United States because there is no better place to build worldchanging technologies. Our advanced society is built on a microscopic foundation of chemistry, physics, and math. Leadership in many of our critical industries is contingent on drug molecules, fuels, materials, catalysts, fertilizers, and semiconductor manufacturing processes.
▶ 0:39:11where today despite the great progress in high performance computing and artificial intelligence we often lack the tools to rapidly design new capabilities without enormously expensive trial and error. These are exactly the problems where quantum computers promise to give answers which will remain forever out of reach of any conventional computer.
▶ 0:39:36Our company was founded with a vigorous determination to drag quantum computing out of the research lab and into the mature semiconductor manufacturing industry. We believed that through leverage of this existing ecosystem uh which makes millions of chips for cell phones and GPUs every year, we could unlock a fast path to the million cubit machines required for all useful Since then, we've raised nearly a billion dollars in private capital,
▶ 0:40:07created jobs for hundreds of the best technical people on the planet, and have already invested hundreds of millions of dollars to advance American manufacturing. Today, we make thousands of wafers of quantum chips at Global Foundaries Fab 8 in upstate New York. We're now scaling up towards mass production of the 3-tonon steel refrigerators, which cool our chips. and later this year will break ground on a data centerized quantum computer on soil.
▶ 0:40:38The United States currently enjoys an unequivocal leadership position in quantum computing and advanced technology more broadly. However, that status is under perpetual and escalating threat from both benign competitors and adversaries. They want tech superiority just as much as we do and will stop at nothing to get it. Now is the time for governments to take bold steps and secure the future of this critical technology.
▶ 0:41:06Syaquantum has already benefited tremendously from our partnerships with DARPA, the Air Force, and the National Labs, and I'm grateful to have these organizations by my side as we launch this sovereign strategic capability into the world. The reauthorization of the National Quantum Initiative Act provides this committee and Congress an opportunity to bolster American leadership in quantum computing. Specifically, I humbly recommend that the reauthorized NQIA include the following.
▶ 0:41:36One, compete and secure access to a utility scale quantum computer a million cubits in scale that will serve as a dedicated resource for US government science, research, and applications. two, increase funding for fundamental quantum research with particular emphasis on error correction, fault tolerance, and algorithm development.
▶ 0:42:00I urge this committee and Congress to consider these recommendations and to act expeditiously to reauthorize and strengthen the NQIA, ensuring that the United States remains at the vanguard of the quantum revolution. The economic and strategic stakes are too high to not act Thank you for your consideration and I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you very much uh Dr. Shadbolt. Our final witness is uh Dr. Charles Tahhan.
▶ 0:42:30Dr. Tan is a partner at Microsoft Quantum. He previously served as the director of the National Quantum Coordination Office and the assistant director for quantum information science at the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy and the National Security Agency's Laboratory for Physical Sciences. He holds a PhD in physics from the University of Wisconsin in Madison. And with that, I now recognize Dr. Dhan for five minutes for your testimony.
▶ 0:42:59Chairman Babin, Ranking Member Lafrren, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the importance of quantum computing and quantum information technology and the role it will play for this country and for our collective future. It's an honor to be here again. I first appeared before this committee about two years ago when I was assistant director for quantum information science and the director of the national quantum coordination office an office that was created by the national quantum initiative act.
▶ 0:43:28My job then was to coordinate the more than 20 agencies to develop and execute a national strategy to strengthen American leadership in quantum information science and technology. My time at OSTP capped a 17-year career as a practicing physicist and a technical leader at the NSA and DARPA. My job now is to lead technical teams at Microsoft that are working both internally and with our close partners to build the world's first useful quantum computers.
▶ 0:43:58Seven years ago, the National Quantum Initiative Act recognized that we were on the cusp of a new technological revolution where we could harness the more advanced and unusual properties of quantum to enable new science and to solve real problems. I like to think of quantum as the operating system of the universe. What we physicists call quantum mechanics are just the rules that the universe uses at the microscopic level.
▶ 0:44:24We are now building tools that take advantage of these quantum effects to create fundamentally new types of information technology. Technology like quantum computers, quantum sensors, and quantum networks. But even in the two years since my last appearance before this committee, the world has changed dramatically. And because of this, we must urgently recommmit to investing in quantum science as a nation.
▶ 0:44:47We must also take action to bring these scientific results out of the lab and into the market to improve people's lives. This year in particular has been historic for quantum information science. The community including Microsoft, Continuum, Atom Computing, Google, and leading groups in China have proven through demonstrations of error correction on prototype quantum computer systems that scaling to large quantum machines is possible.
▶ 0:45:16I have waited my entire career for that milestone. We have also witnessed the remarkable rise of ent artificial intelligence with profound implications for the productivity of the human race. Despite this potential, quantum science has taught us that today's classical computers, no matter how powerful, are unable to match quantum for certain problems. Quantum and AI are in fact complimentary, and we are still learning how they can help each other.
▶ 0:45:45The Microsoft Quantum team has been steadily investing in quantum computing for over 20 years. We build both quantum hardware and the software to power it. We believe there is great value in working on hard problems. And our vision moved closer to reality earlier this year when we unveiled new technical results that begin to validate our unique approach toward a topological quantum computer. This road map is embodied in the Myana 1 chip which I have here which brings together the key components needed to build a quantum supercomput. The team is proud of it.
▶ 0:46:14We are also proud to be to have been selected for the final phase of the DARPA's quantum benchmarking initiative after a thorough evaluation that included experts from DOE's national labs. While Microsoft has made significant investments in quantum, the efforts of individual companies alone are not sufficient for the United States to win the quantum race. Governments around the world are making deep investments and the United States must show leadership by continuing to invest in quantum to advance scientific discovery, to develop technical expertise, and to build a resilient supply chain.
▶ 0:46:44We must also continue to partner with our trusted allies. We face the real possibility that China can out compete us if we do not. I offer three specific recommendations worth more details in my written testimony. First, Congress should reauthorize and expanded National Quantum Initiative programs. We must prioritize our research funding institutions, particularly the DOE, NSF, NIST, and NASA along with the DoD and the intelligence community. These agencies create programs that bridge the valley of death from the lab to the markets.
▶ 0:47:15Everything from new ideas to purchasing novel computers for the community community to use. America's great scientific institutions are unmatched in the world and there is no private sector substitute. Second, Congress must prioritize efforts to expand the quantum talent pool. This includes everything from K12 education to attracting and retaining the world's most innovative minds. Today, there is a severe shortage of global talent and countries are aggressively developing and recruiting that talent. We must do the same and more.
▶ 0:47:45Third, government must take action to create a reliable supply chain for quantum. This includes opportunities for federal, state, and local governments to work with industry to form public private partnerships to onore fabrication and prototyping facilities and to ensure materials and components are more readily available. In closing, quantum technology promises to redefine the next era of human progress. This the United States must act with urgency to ensure our continued leadership for the next 100 years.
▶ 0:48:14Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Uh I want to thank all the witnesses for their uh their testimony and now we're going to move on to questions. Uh the chair will recognizes himself for five minutes. Uh Dr.
▶ 0:48:30Mertzbacher, uh according to the QEDC's 2025 state of the global quantum industry report, uh private venture capital invested 2.6 billion into the quantum industry in How did the NQIA influence this private sector investment? Thank you, Chairman uh Babin for that question.
▶ 0:48:54Um the answer is it invested in the front part of the innovation pipeline through its investment in basic research. I think all of the companies here uh at the table would um give the same answer. We've got to have that pipeline of ideas. And of course, when you invest in research, you educate students and they graduate and go and work for those companies.
▶ 0:49:19And so the INQI funding has been essential for feeding and pouring fuel frankly on the work of all of the companies that are members of QEDC. Thank you. And then as Congress looks to reauthorize NQIA this Congress, do you have thoughts on how the federal government and industry uh can partner up uh to better and not uh their efforts?
▶ 0:49:45Well, I think um duplication is unlikely because industry really focuses on again sort of different part of that value chain. So um I think that the main thing is to be connected to each other. It's I used to be a policy maker and I always felt like there are a lot of good programs, the NQI being one of them that are, you know, putting a lot of money into the system. There's ideas and people coming out, but they need to be connected to the next piece of that innovation pipeline better.
▶ 0:50:14And I think there are many ways that that could be done. I'm happy to share some details and specifics. Thank you very much, Dr. Dhan. Having served as director of the national quantum coordination office at OSTP and now leading quantum development at Microsoft, uh where do you see the biggest breakdowns in coordination between federal quantum policy and private sector innovation and how can Congress help address this issue particularly as it relates to the reauthorization of NQIA?
▶ 0:50:44Well, I mean, let me start by saying I think you did a pretty good job the first time. Uh what what made the national climation office really unique and special was that we had federal government scientists from the different agencies who are the major funders in quantum be being sent to OSTP. So DoD, IC, DOE, NSF and NIST all working together that like is the way you work you coordinate across the agencies.
▶ 0:51:12One of the great um strengths of the United States, really one of its superpowers for science is the federal approach to science funding. We have very diverse agencies. They have different missions. They do things differently and they have a really deep bench of technical talent that is unmatched in the world. Like we have to continue to support that. I think it's not I say that to to begin with because it's not supposed to be perfect. It's supposed to be a hard thing.
▶ 0:51:34there is no quantum zar in the US and that's good because you want that constant um negotiation and coordination to get the to get the best results. The one thing that we need just to look forward to is is how can we bring in industry more and actually move those scientific uh discoveries to market over the next five years. Yes sir. Thank you very much. Dr. Shadbolt, NIST's postquantum cryptography or PQC standards are expected to become the global benchmark.
▶ 0:52:02uh how are US companies especially those developing quantum hardware and cloud services preparing for the shift to postquantum cryptography and what role should NIST and the federal government play in prop promoting uh international adoption of US-led PQC standards to ensure their interoperability and the global and global security. Yeah. So chairman thanks for the the question.
▶ 0:52:27Um you've heard from my colleagues here that uh it is now uh pretty clear that we can build these systems and various teams around the world are scaling up very rapidly. Um and so I think you know it is widely understood that it is possible to build large scale quantum computers that eventually will pose a threat to basically all of the public key encryption that we currently use RSA elliptic curve etc.
▶ 0:52:54And so the effort at NIST uh which was started by um uh of course US government a long time ago um is I think an extremely well-intentioned effort and based on on on the understanding that we can basically upgrade the firmware in conventional computers with new cryptographic codes that would make us secure against the existence of large scale machines. Um I think NIST is the perfect organization to do that. I think they're doing an incredible job of it.
▶ 0:53:24I will emphasize that that is some of the most esoteric mathematics um that anybody works on actually to to define these these codes. Um and it is a very involved analysis uh not both in terms of the science of these postquum codes and also in terms of actually rolling that out into industry, banks, large institutions etc. That's a giant exercise uh that is still still to be done. Thank you very much. And I'm out of time.
▶ 0:53:54I had one question for you, Dr. Chow, but we'll have to wait. So, with that, I'll recognize a gentleoman, a ranking member from California, Miss Laughrin. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. This has been fabulous testimony. I've really appreciate it.
▶ 0:54:09and you know hearing from you, we've had a very successful run here in the United States and we followed a pattern that's been bipartisan here uh where we fund basic research um both within the federal government but also in academia uh where you can't see the return on investment but from that effort then the private sector can take it up and develop it and it's it's genius and it's it worked and I I just want raised
▶ 0:54:39the concern that some of the uh recent actions um have undercut the basic research side and that I think poses a threat to really our very successful model uh for the last several uh decades. Um you know you said Dr.
▶ 0:54:57to Han that there quantum and AI were complimementaryary they're really it's a symbiotic relationship we're heading to and I would throw in another technology which is fusion because the energy needs of uh quantum and AI need to be met. So Dr. Dr.
▶ 0:55:13Chow, in your testimony, uh, you highlight that researchers at Google in collaboration with Sandia National Labs showed that a quantum algorithm run on a quantum computer could more efficiently uh simulate the mechanisms needed for to for sustained fusion reactions, which could ultimately help make fusion energy a reality. Could you elaborate on that, effort? I'm glad you brought this point up.
▶ 0:55:41Some people actually believe that energy is the reason to pursue quantum computing. If you look around in the world, you know, increasingly compute is taking a lot of energy. We want to have the answers. We also want to do so in an energyefficient manner. So, a couple points to make here. One, quantum computers, as we showed with Sandia and others, are expected to be able to make major breakthroughs in fusion energy, better batteries, better solar cells, and more. There's a lot of opportunity there.
▶ 0:56:07Secondly, quantum computers are expected for some problems to compute exponentially faster than classical computers. That means exponentially less use of energy. We look forward to continuing to pioneer that technology. Um, let me just uh ask uh if if I may uh Dr. Shadbolt, you talked about coming to the United States because this is the best place uh to innovate.
▶ 0:56:32Um there has been some concern recently uh of foreign individuals uh being apprehended um without due process or understanding why is it important uh to your company and other companies in the United States that we be a welcoming place to international talent.
▶ 0:56:54How does our scientific and industrial ecosystem benefit from being welcoming to uh immigrants who want to come and innovate Yes. So, ranking member, thank you for the question. Um, I'm an immigrant. I moved here eight years ago from the UK to start this company. Um, and as I said in in the in the opening statement, that's because this was the single best place on the planet uh to go after a generationally important technology like this.
▶ 0:57:24Um our company employs 450 people. Most of those are based here in the United States um across various different states here. Um and uh in order for us to build this system, we are existentially dependent on rare elite technical talent.
▶ 0:57:46uh and those people historically have been trained in university systems in government funded research uh around the world especially here in the United States. Um I think one of the things that's exciting about what we're now doing is firstly that uh we are building this here in the United States and secondly that our workforce is now expanding out to include people who cut steel, lay concrete, uh do semiconductor packaging, assembly etc.
▶ 0:58:14And so as time goes on that workforce is broadening beyond the very elite mathematically oriented PhDs in quantum information. Um uh but yeah I'm delighted to be building this system here and I feel uh very welcome here in the United States. You know, much of the focus of the NQIA has been on engineering and hardware and less focus on software and algorithms that we need to properly utilize these systems.
▶ 0:58:44I'm wondering if uh any of you in your companies are addressing this challenge uh the creation of specialized programming languages to write programs for quantum computers. How are your companies approaching this? I can chime in first. Thanks for the question. Um, I think the point you raised is extremely important because we're not just building these quantum computers for a fun science project, although it is really, really cool.
▶ 0:59:13Um, the point of these is to solve otherwise impossible problems. And the algorithms, the applications are what are going to make these investments worthwhile. Google has been investing quite a bit on our own team in algorithms and software development. We also partner with a number of academic labs and national labs uh government partners to develop algorithms and applications. I'll just add you know Microsoft we're at the end of the day we're a platform company.
▶ 0:59:40We want to offer the best technologies for our customers no matter the cubit technology no matter the the programming language. Uh we really see that as the way to grow not only the talent base but also the application pool to make all these tools available. And with the advent of AI helping people to program easier like I think there's going to be a real transformation acceleration of that over the next couple years.
▶ 1:00:04Uh ranking member we're a startup uh we want to make money and uh uh we view it as critically important that the applications are ready when we turn these machines on. And so we have a 25 person applications team. uh they to your question work on the software, the algorithms, collaborate with uh many different uh third parties and they are also working with uh Fortune 100 type customers, car companies, materials companies, energy companies, etc. to prepare those applications.
▶ 1:00:36Thank you. I've gone over my time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your indulgence. Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much. And now I'd like to recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Self. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. U this is all amazing to me but I will uh I want to focus on national security issues in this first of all the relative value in military terms we think the Chinese get more value per dollar that we so how does our 1.2 billion
▶ 1:01:06actually compare to their 15 billion obviously it's 1/8 by normal but do you how do you assess our 1.2 two billion against their 15 billion in real I'll start and just point out that it's sort of an apples and oranges comparison for one thing.
▶ 1:01:25They're investing in buildings and campuses that we don't count in our research budget uh dollar and that figure that you quoted 1.2 billion I don't believe includes department of defense or some of the other agencies that aren't part of the NQI and under the purview of this committee. So, um there are some good numbers for the government spend at quantum.gov. I um encourage you to take a look at those.
▶ 1:01:47Um but there's there's obviously a lot of um connection between the basic science and the applications in China and frankly here as uh it makes perfect sense. DARPA exists to avoid technological surprise and they're investing a lot in quantum.
▶ 1:02:04So, um I think that the question is, you know, are we um spending our money wisely and uh not sort of try to necessarily worry about the exact dollar amount and make sure that there aren't holes that need to be filled and and Charlie may have additional thoughts from his previous role especially. It's a great question. Um Congressman, look, there are two fundamentally exponentially better applications for quantum computing. One is codereing and one is making things. So, chemistry, material science.
▶ 1:02:32We as commercial companies are trying to provide value to we're trying to create economic value that is legal, right? So we're we're trying to understand where that market is. If you're more concerned on the codereing side like other countries might be, there's a potential huge return on investment. So I'm not worried about the investments today. I don't necessarily believe the numbers we're hearing from other countries.
▶ 1:02:55I'm worrying about the investments over the next decade to take our proofs that this is going to scale and really go for it. Make the entire ecosystem of fridges, electronics, interconnect, and put it together with a lot of manpower to actually build the machines first. Like whoever gets to that owns the market, not only for the bad, but also for the good. We can't afford to lose that race.
▶ 1:03:20Well, I was going to ask you uh security for this because the Chinese are well known for their espionage. How how are you protecting the information? How are we as a community protecting this information? Because it looks to me like this, if we're going to say this is the uh this is the golden era, how are we protecting it? What does that take? Because this is Yeah. Can I answer first? So I have uh the joy of of having 230 bosses.
▶ 1:03:49Uh all these companies uh small and large are trying to run fast. Um but we have great partnership with law enforcement agencies who come in and speak at our meetings and remind everyone of just this point. And so we provide resources to our members and especially the small companies who don't have a huge security department down the hall um benefit from those resources that government have made available. So that's one of the benefits of QEDC.
▶ 1:04:17We bring and educate and make aware even the smallest members about uh what those threats might look like and give them access to resources. I'm I'm sure all these big companies have pretty good departments. Yes, I can speak on that briefly. They would just say Google takes our IP very seriously from a business competitive lens as well as national security. As a company, Google has world-class security practices both in physical and digital security. We apply all of those to our quantum computing IP as well as special practices. On top of that, um, as Dr.
▶ 1:04:46Mertzbacher mentioned, we also work very closely with law enforcement. We're grateful for the partnership. Let me ask you a theoretical question. When will the national security agencies have access to a usable quantum whatever? Well, that's a hard hard question. Um, Congressman, I think it it's hard to predict when exactly it'll be relevant.
▶ 1:05:07I what I can say for sure is we're now in the window that we have to worry because many of the national security agencies and commercial companies for banking, for healthcare have to protect information for 10, 20, 30, even 50 years. and the way this technology is progressed and that is a window of where you need to worry about other entities saving communications have been sent and being able to decrypt it later and it's still being valuable.
▶ 1:05:32So irregardless of when exactly the date will be, we have to start moving our toquy now and protecting our our networks um urgently. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Yes, sir. Thank you. We are now recognized gentleoman from Michigan, uh, Miss Stevens. Well, thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:05:53Chair, and thank you to the full committee for, frankly, a phenomenal hearing topic on a priority area for our nation and for our world. And as we know, the United States has made some considerable considerable investments over the years to ensure our leadership in quantum. Now, I have enjoyed in the splendor of being a very bipartisan member of this committee, Mr.
▶ 1:06:20Chair, and I have nothing but respect for your leadership and our ranking members leadership. But I must use my time um to draw attention to a very alarming uh development in the field of science, technology, engineering, and um how incredible to see this full range of panelists and the organizations and the enterprises that they represent. As you might recall, Mr.
▶ 1:06:47Chair, in December of 2019, actually Christmas Eve of of um the 45th president signed the building blocks of STEM act into law. This was a bill that I authored with Dr. Baird and two members of the Senate.
▶ 1:07:04It was a bipartisan biccameal bill directing the National Science Foundation to use its money as it does a grants making agency to uh prioritize investments in STEM education at the K through 12 level.
▶ 1:07:20So we have continual educational experiences in the STEM field, not oneoffs with a focus on girls, with a focus on rural students, with a focus on disadvantaged students, with a focus on minorities. And this passed and it was signed. And then on Saturday morning, I wake up to the news that all the STEM grants at the National Science Foundation have been stopped.
▶ 1:07:50Now, that to me seems like an article one moment. And I know I'm supposed to use this hearing time to engage in things that I'm really proud to have been a part of, like introducing the Postquantum Cyber Security Standards Act, again, bipartisan with Congresswoman Tiny. And another matter here with Mr.
▶ 1:08:12Bulbery on the um sandbox that we're working on the sandbox bill that we dropped off and I I do want to ask Mr. Miss Msburgger about it, but I can't let the precious five minutes I get in this hearing to go silent about what is happening with research funding. Are we aware that the head of the NSF has stepped down?
▶ 1:08:41That research scientists are leaving our nation? That they are being recruited by Europe? What the heck are we doing? So, yeah, I want to see a quantum bill get passed. It should have passed last term.
▶ 1:08:57I blame the Senate for that, I want to see this quantum sandbox deal get done because yes, we need to be innovating at the earliest technology readiness levels, but I really don't see how we're going to achieve these goals and why we're going to have these pleasantries which are important to have. And again, I start with the respect that I have for my colleagues on the other side of the aisle.
▶ 1:09:27But what I must call out is that article one is being violated. That a bill that I wrote within my first year in Congress, the first person in my class to get a bill done on a priority topic for the United States of America in this very subject is being ignored, is being overwritten. We can't be outside the bounds of our Constitution and expect to succeed.
▶ 1:09:57as an open capitalist free democracy. I'm proud to be an elected official in this democracy who evangelizes and gets things done for STEM, for quantum and the like. But I can't sit here in this hearing and which is hopefully going to lead to the passage of our quantum bill with the precious five minutes I get and not call this out.
▶ 1:10:26So, I thank the organizations who have weighed in on the quantum sandbox and the cyber bill and who support STEM. But please join us. Please join us in calling out what is frankly unconscionable with the attacks on STEM education, on research funding, and what is happening to our scientific community. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. I now recognize the gentleman from Indiana. Mr.
▶ 1:10:56Baird. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ranking member. I appreciate our witnesses being here. Uh the expertise you bring to this quantum uh computing area is is tremendous and the growth has been exponential. But anyway, Dr. Shadbold, I'm going to start with you. Uh you know, I represent Northwest Indiana and I'm proud that it's it's part of the quantum quarter uh that links Indiana and Illinois.
▶ 1:11:22And as you know, the quantum quarter is developing the fastest and most secure fiber optic network in the United States. The hope is that the quantum industry embraces the opportunity to connect into this ne network and and expand upon that. So, uh I know that quantum communications is separate from the quantum computing. Uh but could you talk a little bit about the importance of this quarter and the connections that we're making there? Thank you, Congressman, for the question.
▶ 1:11:51Um yeah so uh so this wafer in front of me uh this is a wafer of quantum chips and this is a photonic wafer so photons uh the same wavelength of light that's used in the internet for networking can fly around on this on these chips. Uh this is made in upstate New York.
▶ 1:12:11We make thousands of wafers like this right now and we're really delighted to be bringing these wafers uh in the near future to the Midwest where we're building now large systems as you've heard and I think you've also heard from my colleagues one of the I think exciting things about uh this space is that it is an ecosystem. Uh Scantum works uh with 500 uh supply chain partners in 39 states across the across the US.
▶ 1:12:39Um and that's not just esoteric quantum research. That is cutting steel uh making wafers and making the kind of advanced photonics that is critical for quantum networking for quantum key distribution for free space optics uh for photonic networking and AI supercomputers.
▶ 1:12:59And so I think it's actually very exciting that we can contribute to that uh that space and we can also benefit from work that is done by our colleagues uh in in optical So when I took a tour I think they started out with a 4inch wafer which I didn't know anything about at the moment but anyway they started out with a 4-in wafer they went to an 8 in and now they're up to an 18 which that looks like that's about what Yeah.
▶ 1:13:25So, Congressman, if you'll forgive me for opening the case here, because my colleagues would like me to do this. Um, I do I do have a big wafer, which I'm happy about. Um, and and and this is not just uh for fun. To your to your point, one of the things that we've been most focused on in quantum computing is maturity. Uh, of course, quantum computing starts at a very low level of technical maturity in a research lab.
▶ 1:13:52And our emphasis has been to urgently escalate to a high level of technical maturity to be able to build the photonic components that you reference in a big fab in the millions. Uh and we're really excited to now be at that that point. So does anyone else have a comment in this regard? Yes ma'am.
▶ 1:14:13I I just wanted to make you aware that um one of the things QEDC does is uh bring together the whole community to look forward in the future and we're in the process of putting together a workshop this summer called quantum network applications roadmap and we're working with the university and industry communities to create a roadmap for quantum networking that will help identify both uses of quantum networks and the pathway to get there. Thank you. I just wanted to add, Congressman, great great question.
▶ 1:14:43You know, we we at Microsoft do both computing and networking. We're engaged with the uh quantum corridor uh efforts in Indiana. We have actually have an outpost at Purdue uh who make some of our materials, the the very exotic materials that are needed for our type of cubit. So like it's it's resources like this around the country that enable companies like Microsoft to succeed. At the end of the day, I predict you're going to do well. Okay. Anyway, you know, I want to share with you maybe one thing.
▶ 1:15:12I grew up on a farm and so when I started hearing early on, I want to tell you how fast I've gained knowledge about this quantum computing. But anyway, I couldn't get an F-150 pickup because I couldn't couldn't get a chip, right? So, being a farm boy, I thought, shoot, I could take a piece of copper and a hammer and I can give me a chip or so, you know? Well, there's 11 or,200 of those in those vehicles. And so, that's how fast I've learned to get up to speed with you people. Thanks. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:15:41And now the gentle woman from North Carolina, Miss Ross. Uh, thank you very much for holding this hearing, Chairman Babin and Ranking Member Lofgrren. And thank you to all of the panelists for joining us today. I'm proud to represent North Carolina's second congressional district, home to the IBM Quantum Hub at NC State University.
▶ 1:16:03Uh since its opening, the IBM quantum hub has been a center of quantum computing education, research, development, and implementation. And I've also had the pleasure to visit the Duke Quantum Center, a unique vertical quantum institute located in Congresswoman Fushi's district. I'm excited about the quantum advancements being made right at in our home state of North Carolina and of course look forward to your perspectives.
▶ 1:16:32Last Congress, I was pleased to offer a bipartisan amendment to the National Quantum Initiative Reauthorization Act with Congressman Oberon Noli that passed this committee and was added to the bill. The amendment, a version of my bill, the Leveraging Quantum Computing Act, would instruct federal agencies to identify potential use cases for quantum computing to advance the missions of those participating agencies.
▶ 1:17:01This question is for all of our witnesses. We've already heard a great deal about the importance of not falling behind in quantum technology and of course about the benefits of investing in it and in research. But can you speak specifically to how our federal agencies might be able to benefit from the implementation and use of quantum computing talking about practical applications and I'd like to start with Dr.
▶ 1:17:30Tahan Tahan um and then go down the line. Thank you Congressman. That's that's a great question. Let let me say as someone new to industry you know nine months in the job there's tremendous value in a good customer. Like that is maybe the most valuable thing to a company and the government is the first and best comp customer for emerging technologies.
▶ 1:17:51Let's be honest like each agency has a mission whether it's defense scientific discovery um and so on and I can't say enough about how important it is for them you know telling us like this if you could build a computer like this our user base at DOE would use it and let we'll build to that you know so that's first the second thing is I think there are applications especially the first ones in science that the department of energy national science foundation can foster where there's really going to
▶ 1:18:21be tremendous discoveries from the computers that we are working with our partners on like atom computing and other companies are working on. Um I won't take any more time but I think there's tremendous opportunity for the government to lead as the first customer. Great. Dr. Chad thank you for the question. Uh the the government of course has been um uh the proponent of high performance computing historically. Building large computers uh to solve problems in chemistry, material science, physics uh etc.
▶ 1:18:51uh has been a uh rightful high priority activity for governments and you know on the one hand quantum computing is an alien you know shocking new technology. On the other hand, it actually bears strong resemblance with those leadership class supercomputers that have previously been built by the national labs etc. And so the way I think about this is that we want to enable a categorically new level of mastery over chemistry, physics and math.
▶ 1:19:20We think that is valuable and we're happy to be working uh with Los Alamos National Labs for example uh on on applications a number of different groups uh in in the US uh system here. Dr. Ch, quantum computers can solve problems that AI and supercomputers cannot. We fundamentally believe that there are enormous applications that many of the different US agencies will be able to benefit from. Everything from drug discovery to industrial chemistry to energy and more.
▶ 1:19:49Um, we look forward to continued partnership with the agencies as they look at applications and also in direct collaboration with national labs and others. As some of the other panelists have mentioned, supercomputers are incredibly important to the United States and we envision that quantum computers can supercharge that. Okay, Dr. from Paka.
▶ 1:20:07One of the major work streams at QADC in partnership with all our members and the government agencies is identifying use cases and they're all publicly available on our website and we've done workshops and and studies on use cases of quantum for managing the electric grid for improving transportation systems for biomedical imaging that would be quantum sensing not computing and uh other areas.
▶ 1:20:31So um we are helping to identify those use cases so that the agencies will understand the potential of the technology and be early adopters and early customers as was called for. Thank you. Thank you very much especially for the specific examples at the end. I yield back. Yes ma'am. And now the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Miller. Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you to our witnesses for their time and testimony here today. Today we are here to assess the current state of quantum research.
▶ 1:20:59And sorry I'm in the corner uh if you can't see me back here. Uh development in technology in the United States and review the first seven years of the National Quantum Initiative Act. Research and investment in new cutting edge technologies like quantum science serve as an indispensable pillar of progress both here in the United States and across the globe. The United States leads the development of quantum computing, boasting the world's most active quantum startup community and robust private sector research.
▶ 1:21:26For example, in my home state of Ohio, the Cleveland Clinic deployed Quantum System 1 in partnership with IBM in 2023, the first on-site private sector IBM managed quantum computer in the United States. Additionally, this is the first quantum computer in the world dedicated to healthcare and life sciences.
▶ 1:21:47It supports advanced quantum computing and is a part of an integrated research framework that brings together teams from the Cleveland Clinic and IBM to advance biomed research using high performance computing, artificial intelligence, and quantum technology. This system at the Cleveland Clinic only scratches the surface of the vast capabilities that quantum science can achieve.
▶ 1:22:08To maintain our leadership, we must confront rising influence of our adversaries, particularly China, whose investment in applied quantum science is triple that of the United States government. The CCP has designated quantum capabilities as a missionritical technology and launch an initiative aimed at surpassing the United States quantum capabilities by 2030. These strategic moves by China underscore the need for a swift and measured response by the United States in the sphere of quantum science.
▶ 1:22:38This is why the federal government must work alongside private industry to facilitate research, development, and investment in this emerging technology to ensure that the United States remains at the forefront of quantum technology and fully embrace this groundbreaking realm of science. Dr. Chu, in your testimony, you mentioned the United States leads in capital patents and academic programs for quantum computing, similar to the Cleveland Clinic IBM Discovery Accelerator in Northeast Ohio.
▶ 1:23:09What risk do you see to that leadership if the federal commitment to quantum research and coordination to plateau or to decline? Thanks for the question, Congressman. Uh, we identify uh three different risks uh if the funding were to decline. Number one and most importantly is talent for the future workforce. Um it is incredibly important that we have the talent that we need. Building a quantum computer is an ambitious task. Um doesn't just happen by accident. We've got to have the skilled workers.
▶ 1:23:38Everything from PhD researchers to engineers to two-year community college technicians. They are all critical to building this and we need to have that workforce continue to be built up especially as uh the industry matures. Um secondly, supply chain. Um this is incredibly important as I mentioned in my opening statement. Uh no one country or company is capable of doing this on our own. We need to have the US government looking at different ways to find and bolster up the supply chain both domestically and internationally with strategic partners.
▶ 1:24:07Uh and then thirdly continued funding and support for basic R&D. I can't stress enough our cubits come out of fundamental research that happened in national labs in academia and others supported by the government. This needs to continue. there's a lot of unsolved problems including all the applications for how a quantum computer will be used. We'd love to see that continued support. Thank you for that answer and the detailed and articulate answer going over through the three points uh so the American people can see why it's so important that we support this moving forward. Thank you. Uh Dr.
▶ 1:24:37Shadbull, in your testimony, you mentioned how Saiquantum is working with suppliers in 39 states. Is Ohio one of these states? And what role should Congress play in expanding domestic manufacturing capacity for quantum critical components like cryostats, photonic chips, and other optical switches? Yes. So, Congressman, thank you so much for the question. Uh, I am delighted that we have five uh vendors in Ohio, and I would love to make that a bigger number, of course, but you and me both, Doc. Yeah.
▶ 1:25:08Um and uh uh sorry could you repeat the second part of the question? Absolutely. Uh what role should Congress play in expanding domestic manufacturing capacity for quantum critical components like cryostats, photonic chips and other optical switches? Well, I think it's thrilling that we can build so much of this machine here in the United States.
▶ 1:25:27uh the the typical uh uh chip company of course the default for a technology company for a chip company is that their chips are made in Southeast Asia uh specifically in Taiwan. That is overwhelmingly the case. It's actually tremendously exciting and joyful that I can report that we make our chips uh here in the United States in a very mature tier one semiconductor foundry that's normally making chips for cars, laptops, cell phones, uh etc.
▶ 1:25:56that's a trusted fab that's got a very strong engagement with the OD. Um, and I think uh, you know, one of the opportunities that I really think is critical here is to recognize that those supply chain partners are going to really struggle if their only customer is quantum computing in the near term.
▶ 1:26:16Um our strategy was founded on a sort of realistic recognition that we have to fit ourselves into existing high volume supply chains so that we can leverage those mature capabilities. So for instance these phetonic devices that we make are also used for conventional networking applications that bolsters the uh third parties who we work with and that gives us tremendous leverage.
▶ 1:26:43I think that's a strategic consideration that I would recommend uh this committee bear in mind when thinking about building these supply chains. Thank you very much, doctor. Mr. Chairman, I'm out of time. I yield back. Uh now the recognize the gentleoman from Oregon, Miss Lenus. Thank you, Chair Babin, and thank you to uh ranking member Lorren, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
▶ 1:27:08I've been working to secure funding for a project at Oregon Tech in my district to acquire the instrumentation that will allow them to launch a quantum computing innovation center. The center will allow them to conduct new research at the intersection of quantum mechanics, computing, and AI and provide hands-on learning experiences for some undergraduate students. I've also introduced legislation with Mr. prepared last Congress and I hope that he will work with me to do so again to address this issue on a broader scale.
▶ 1:27:35The quantum instrumentation for science and engineering act would help to provide some of the instrumentation colleges and universities need for their research and to provide that hands-on training. Um Dr. Mertzbacher, how can we improve the National Quantum Initiative to ensure access to those specialty tools and instruments that researchers and students need? and are there opportunities for additional public private partnerships in this space? Thank you very much. You're um speaking uh my my language here.
▶ 1:28:04Um I think that our uh studies have shown that as these companies are maturing, they need more and more people who are perhaps not at the PhD level but masters, bachelors, and even technicians with uh associate degrees. So um kudos to you for that. Um I would say a couple of ideas on how to make that happen faster.
▶ 1:28:25One is um use the National Science Foundation uh at program which is really aimed at those technician education um needs and uh we did an NSF funded report. It's about to be published on experiential learning for uh those kinds of learners and it has a great appendix with pages of ideas. Uh we also did a report that's already been released on quantum technician needs and training ideas. So um a good resource as well.
▶ 1:28:54I think another and this kind of gets to the supply chain question that was asked earlier. Um the government could think about being an early customer for the components the photonic components, optical components, low temperature uh you know technology. and by purchasing those and putting them at places like your school, get those equipments that are very expensive into the hands of educators and learners. So, that seems like a win-win. Help boost the supply chain and the education.
▶ 1:29:24Thank you. Would anyone else like to respond? Yeah, I was going to make exactly the same point that Celia made there. There's a tremendous opportunity here to get a two for one. Yeah. If if government can lead commerce, NIST, you know, with buying programs, we're gonna through the National Quantum Initiative Act anyway, we're going to buy a ton of fridges. Companies are buying a ton of fridges. Schools need them to train. These are not cheap. Um, but if there's a coordinated effort to buy, we could reduce the cost.
▶ 1:29:53We can get more US suppliers as competitors to the foreign sources. And so we have a more resilient supply chain. Miami can help train the next generation of people who need to actually physically touch things. So there's a real opportunity here for synergy and I hope you know government will show some leadership in in pushing that. I love that Dr. Chowo. Yes. Uh one other comment that I'll add uh is how important these kinds of investments are?
▶ 1:30:16um our Google quantum chips actually even the first one that I had in the display that demonstrated milestone one first computer chip to demonstrate quantum computer um could be capable of something that's impossible for a classical supercomputer that was developed at the UC Santa Barbara nanop fabrication facility Google did not have our own fabrication facility at the time we and many other companies actually utilize that shared equipment as a way to test out ideas it's really important thank you so one of my key focus areas with emerging technologies like quantum is to make sure that Americans from
▶ 1:30:47all kinds of backgrounds can actually participate in their development and access the economic opportunities that they actually offer. And one of my first actions in Congress was an amendment in this committee to help make sure that STEM education can truly reach students from diverse backgrounds, including rural backgrounds like in my area. The University of Oregon just saw a long-running STEM education grant canled by NSF through which they help teachers across the country implement curricula that are more accessible for girls and other represented groups in STEM.
▶ 1:31:17It seems to me that we should actually be doing more of that kind of work, not shooting ourselves in the foot when it comes to our future skilled workforce. Can any of our our witnesses speak to the importance of fedally funded STEM education in developing those core literacies that you rely on to recruit and train your workforce? Yes, Dr. Trahan. Well, I just wanted to say that this is a great point.
▶ 1:31:41Um, one thing I think may be valuable for all to know is that as quantum computing gets more mature and frankly more expensive and hard to scale, companies have to focus more and more on actually doing that. And so although we we can do a lot to help with workforce and training, we can't do nearly enough. And it's we're really dependent on not only local and government, state government ecosystems, but the federal government in helping generate this workforce.
▶ 1:32:12And when I look to the next 10 years of people we need, it's way more than we're generating now. And it's all types from welding to quantum physicists to computer scientists, very broad spectrum. Uh where's that talent going to come from? We need to we need to create it. Thank you. My time is expired. I yield back. And now the gentleoman from South Carolina, Miss Biggs. Thank you, Chairman Bavin, for holding this hearing today on quantum technology.
▶ 1:32:40And thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Um, as we've already established, quantum technology represents one of the most important battlefields in emerging science across the world. The speed and capabilities that quantum computing, sensing, and cryptography, they provide um their a def definitive advantage for the first country to achieve them.
▶ 1:33:06So, I'm happy to represent South Carolina's third district and also excited that we haven't been left out of the quantum race. In 2023, Clemson University hosted the National Quantum Technology Forum to discuss the future of quantum technology and the developing quantum uh techn uh industry. I'm sorry.
▶ 1:33:31Um, it saw attendance at all levels including academics, industry leaders, officials from Savannah River National Lab, and members of Congress. So, my first question is to Dr. Mertzbacher. What role do you see colleges having um both traditional universities and technical colleges as well as trade schools um have in creating a quantum ready workforce?
▶ 1:34:01And how might Congress facilitate their collaboration with institutions like national laboratories to advance American dominance in quantum technologies? Thank you for that question and I just want to mention that the South Carolina Quantum Alliance is a member of my consortium and um Joe Queeninan is on the board. So thank you to South Carolina for being really actively engaged and um taking a leadership um role in some ways.
▶ 1:34:28Um the the connection between universities and the other parts of the sort of S&T ecosystem, the national labs and industry of course, and you've got some great companies in your state. um they all need to be um working together and and connected and um the universities you know do what they do best. They come up with new ideas. They do some of the basic research. They explore things that companies even the big ones that are here don't have the time and resources to do. So that's really important.
▶ 1:34:58And then of course as I mentioned in the process they they educate the workforce that go out and uh take that knowledge and apply it. So, um, I think being sure that the different stakeholders within South Carolina are engaging with each other is going to help accelerate progress and make sure that the the results of the investments in research get into practical applications as quickly as possible. Thank you. Thank So, I'm going to leave this question open to anyone.
▶ 1:35:28Um the domestic manufacturing of quantum computing chips opens the doors for a strong and competitive American workforce and quantum technologies for the future. So how can technology surrounding quantum like like the photonics or cryogenics be effectively onshored or reshored to further bolster domestic manufacturing and create a strong American future in
▶ 1:35:59Can I just say a really quick answer and then I'm going to let the others chime in. Um so there's a program called the micro electronics commons program which was part of the chips and science program. It's run by DoD and it was to set up hubs for making prototypes of things and quantum technologies was included in that program. So that's exactly the kind of thing that's needed to make sure that quantum manufacturing is being developed here because it's still very early days.
▶ 1:36:26Now these folks are all making stuff and I'll let them speak to that. But to make it something that is available to smaller companies and the people who are even doing research um in universities perhaps is another matter and and those kinds of facilities are really important. Thank you. Yes. Mr.
▶ 1:36:44Congresswoman, I think we it's very exciting to have an opportunity here to get off on the right foot uh in something that is in the newer pieces of that ecosystem where with semiconductor manufacturing, I think it's fair to say we're kind of playing catchup uh to um remedy some of the risks that we see in our supply chain. Uh so I think that's an extremely exciting opportunity with the new pieces. For instance, we've developed a new material that we make in California basically from scratch.
▶ 1:37:13That's really exciting. The the only piece that I'd add to that is that I do think maturity has to be part of the discussion here. If we rebuild the entire supply chain from scratch, this is going to take a really long time. And so I think it's very important to look for opportunities where quantum computing can make use of existing suppliers, existing infrastructure. And um for instance we use a big cryoplant DOE cryoplant at the Stanford linear accelerator and we use uh the global foundaries fab.
▶ 1:37:43The piece that makes that effective is that quantum computing is a frontier technology. We push the capabilities of those uh partners and as you've heard we as a startup have invested hundreds of millions of dollars here in the United States to push the boundaries of what can be done with phutonics with cryogenics uh etc. packaging uh and so just making people aware that that's actually pretty exciting opportunity I think is valuable.
▶ 1:38:10Thank you so much for sharing with me and my time is up so I yield back chairman and now I'd like to recognize the gentleoman from North Carolina Miss Fushi. Thank you Mr. Chairman and ranking member for holding this hearing today and to our witnesses for your testimonies and your appearance. I am proud that my district, North Carolina 4th, is a leader in researching and developing quantum technologies and includes the Duke Quantum Center, a partner of the Department of Energy.
▶ 1:38:41Um the um Quantum Systems Accelerator, one of five quantum information research centers in the country. So, keeping with the workforce development aspect, colleges and universities in my district, including Duke, UNCC Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Central University, and Durham and Wake Tech Community Colleges, together with institutions across the state of North Carolina, prepare thousands of students every year for careers in science and
▶ 1:39:11engineering. Many of these students may end up in quantum jobs at one of the companies represented here today. So it seems to me that we need to make sure that students across North Carolina and the US are getting the preparation they need to succeed in quantum related areas.
▶ 1:39:30Can each of you um comment on the national quantum initiatives role in quantum education at all levels including K12 level prior to college and what should be included in the upcoming reauthorization to strengthen our nation's quantum workforce? Well, thank you for that question.
▶ 1:39:53Um it's really an important one and um the original ENQI mentions the importance of K through2 education as well as graduate level and I think that's only becoming clearer. It's challenging of course to for teachers.
▶ 1:40:07So we need to teach the teachers in a way and it's natural for these emerging new technologies to sort of flow down from the college level uh and into high school and then younger learners and um and that's what's going to happen with quantum as well.
▶ 1:40:25So, um I think there are real opportunities to connect the um high school programs and teachers to uh quantum ideas so that they can start introducing them and get students excited about them. Um and if if quantum is what attracts more of our young people to the field of STEM in general, that's great and we're all going to win from that.
▶ 1:40:48So I think we need to take advantage in this sort of internet world of the excitement around new things like quantum and use that to attract students um from the youngest ages on up. So I think that uh I I look forward to seeing more emphasis on that in the ENQI act and partnering with the organizations that are doing really good work in that area. I love that you called out the importance of training across the spectrum. Um, that is something we're certainly seeing.
▶ 1:41:16If you get to graduate school and then start to pursue quantum computing, it's it's too late. Um, one organization that I'd like to call out is the Q12 partnership. We've been very proud to be a partner of them, and we've been very happy to see their work starting all the way from K12. Getting students, kids excited about science, engineering, math, and opportunities to support quantum computing will be important to really build up the workforce we need. Congresswoman, uh, elites have a bad name, understandably.
▶ 1:41:46Um, but we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't recognize that in order to build a quantum computer, you need elite, extremely rare, technically, highly trained people. And that's an existential requirement for what we're doing. Very, very rare, mathematically decorated people. But as my uh colleagues here have mentioned, one of the really exciting things about quantum computing is that it is now getting out of the lab.
▶ 1:42:14People are starting to lay concrete, cut steel, and everything in between. Um and so um uh I think it's important to recognize that we are dependent on the types of people who historically have been trained uh in government funded institutions uh and of course have been huge beneficiaries of NQIA in that respect. Um, but the field is broadening. Um, thank you, Congresswoman. It's pretty simple for me. I'm a physicist. I want to work with the best people.
▶ 1:42:43I don't care where they come from. I just want to work with the best. I have a unique perspective because I I helped start the Q12 partnership when I was in OSTP. And now I see in Microsoft like all the educational materials we we offer.
▶ 1:42:56I will tell you that there's tremendous still a tremendous need and tremendous value in government putting some money on the table to uh crystallize these these partnerships like Q12 was was never really completely funded and having a center as a nexus of public private investment in the next generation all grade levels tools for teachers will really make a big difference to our field.
▶ 1:43:27Thank you all for that. Um, that's my time, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Now, I'd like to recognize gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Harrian. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses today for your testimony. Really appreciate it. Very fascinating subject. And I come from the great state of North Carolina. We have a very robust agricultural sector. We make specialty crops such as sweet potatoes, tobacco, cotton.
▶ 1:43:54Can you guys talk more broadly and and just explain in plain terms what do these investments these very sizable investments that we are making in quantum technology? What does it mean to folks in the agricultural sector more broadly? What how how are their businesses going to be benefited? How are their lives going to be changed moving forward? I I can start uh just really quickly. I think that's a great question.
▶ 1:44:21Um at Microsoft actually sit with a division that has both AI for science and discovery and quantum and we see those as very interlin because we are trying to find the market for how do you design uh better things new chemicals new fertilizers for um for agriculture uh and and so on.
▶ 1:44:42So I think you know as these new scientific tools become available they will be used by the Dowo chemical the you know the the our industry to make better tools for farmers. I would also be remiss in in saying like there's a whole other area of quantum which is quantum sensing which is you know already being deployed for the GPS system and and other earth observation that will I think will help farmers together with AI give them again new tools for predicting how their crops will behave over
▶ 1:45:13time. This is some of these things are speculative. Some of these things we still need to you know find new algorithms and approaches but that's what the future holds. There's a lot of evidence that it'll make a big Yeah. So, so Congressman, um, uh, depending on how organic your diet is, uh, it's possible that the majority of the nitrogen in your body right now was made in an industrial process to make nitrogen fertilizer, the harbor through the harbor Bosch process.
▶ 1:45:39That's a piece of chemistry that was discovered decades ago and that has allowed us to dramatically increase uh, the food production. Um I there's a reasonable case to be made that there are a billion people alive on planet earth today who might not be here were it not for the harbor bosch process. That's a single piece of chemistry. Um what we want to do with quantum computers is advance our mastery of chemistry materials uh etc.
▶ 1:46:05And as far as the access to that, I want to emphasize if you think about some of our biggest and most strategically important companies, TSMC, ASML, SpaceX, uh, Nvidia, these are not technologies where the average person directly interacts with a satellite or a semiconductor fab or an AI supercomput.
▶ 1:46:26But it is the second and third order byproducts of the calculations that are run on those systems or the capabilities that are enabled that do impact the everyday person. Thanks. That was a fantastic answer and I I genuinely appreciate you encapsulating the benefit to day-to-day ordinary Americans as we make these very significant investments, they need to know that what we're investing in is actually getting a significant return on those investments. And uh I think we can all conclude today in a bipartisan way.
▶ 1:46:56It certainly is. I have a question for Dr. Cow with my remaining time and I'll keep it as quick as I possibly can. One of the things that I've talked about since coming to Congress is we've got to start winning the economics of conflict. So much of what this committee works on is dual use in terms of its technology. I know Google is involved in many different defense applications.
▶ 1:47:18How are investments in quantum technology going to allow us from a military perspective to win the economics of the future conflicts? Thanks for the question. I'd like to highlight at first that uh the military, the department of defense and other agencies have been critical to the development of quantum computing. In fact, a lot of this work started at ARPA, DARPA and others. That's been a critical partnership.
▶ 1:47:42Um we anticipate moving forward that there will be many opportunities from better intelligence um to better opportunities to really get more information earlier on. Google is a very proud partner of the US government. We look forward to continued uh partnership. Okay. Thank you, Dr. Marks. I'll just add that um the defense department and the intelligence community are um among the leaders in the government in terms of their own capabilities.
▶ 1:48:10And so I think that it's going to be one of the first areas of of practical application frankly for protecting the war fighter and achieving the mission of those parts of government. So um the the return on investment will be first in some ways in the defense and national security space. Thank you all very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. And now the representative from Florida, Representative Frost. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:48:36chairman and thank you so much to the uh witnesses for being here today and really always appreciate the opportunity to hear your expertise on uh quantum technology matters. Last time we held a hearing on quantum technology, we described it as the technology of tomorrow. However, with the break breakthroughs going on with Google and Microsoft and many others, um I think we're better it's better to say that this is the technology of today. Um Dr.
▶ 1:49:02Merzbacher, I'd like to get your two cents on the work between the government, national labs, universities, and corporations in developing quantum tech. Back in 2021, the Government Accountability Office, GAO, saw that some quantum tech like small-cale quantum computers had been developed but were quote limited in scope and prone to errors end quote. Can you briefly talk to us about how scope and error rate have changed in the last four years?
▶ 1:49:28Well, I think some of the other panelists can can speak to that more directly in some ways because they're really advancing the frontiers. But um there are sort of three areas where advances are necessary in order for these technologies to be uh available and useful to to us today. Uh one is scaling up the capabilities and we've seen some nice um examples here on the table of that happening. So more proc bigger processors more capable.
▶ 1:49:56Number two is the error correction problem. These are prone to errors and that needs to be improved. So you need to both improve the cubits and also address the errors. And at some point you kind of have a combination of those two that makes it possible to do computation. And number three, and this was touched on I think in an earlier question, we need algorithms. We need software to run on the hardware. And so all three of those things are in the process of being advanced simultaneously, which is kind of amazing.
▶ 1:50:25um in order to be able to as soon as possible have things that are useful for commercial applications. I hope that answers your question. You know, for for a long time quantum computing has promised that a single utility scale quantum computer could provide more computing power than all the world's classical computers combined. Um I know each and every one of you has been spending a bunch of time working to overcome certain technological challenges, scalability, error correction.
▶ 1:50:52However, I want to make want to bring up something that um is a concern I have and it might not come up every day. Quantum research costs a lot of money, right? The reality is this means that the serious capabilities are concentrated with a few major players including Microsoft and Google. Um now that quantum tech is arriving, people are worried about how we'll keep it serving the public interest and not just enriching those who can afford it.
▶ 1:51:20Um, are there any recommendations from the quantum committee, GAO or anywhere else that you think help address this Yeah, this is a great uh question, Congressman. I I would say that there's a solution. You know, it's called the internet. You know, we we we have already computing um systems that are made available much much more powerful that anybody could buy um that are made available across the country to anybody who wants to use them.
▶ 1:51:48And we have, you know, through the federal government made investments in providing access to that to, you know, students, anything from high school students all the way up to the the most sophisticated researchers. And I think that has to continue to happen in quantum as well. It is expensive. It's very expensive to build these machines and push them to the state-of-the-art.
▶ 1:52:09It's very expensive even to use them because there's only a couple that are working, you know, and to to to take the time away to of development to provide access is expensive, but this is somewhere really where the government can help by by making that access available to to communities. I know um some of you are probably familiar with initiatives like the Illinois Quantum and uh Micro Electronics Park um which aims to establish regional quantum hubs.
▶ 1:52:35What strategies can ensure that as these hubs spring up across the country, they benefit a broad range of folks including people from rural communities and low-income backgrounds? Uh we are delighted to be the anchor tenant uh of that uh IQMP um park and uh really really excited to be getting started building systems there. To your question again, quantum computing is a frontier technology.
▶ 1:53:04Today we do not have useful quantum computers and we've heard we need to build big systems in order to actually access useful applications. Almost by definition a virtue a a a frontier technology is going to suffer from the kind of concentration of power that you describe. And I think it is risky uh to uh not fully internalize that reality.
▶ 1:53:30That is the nature of for instance semiconductor manufacturing, AI, supercomputers, rockets, quantum computers. It's almost a physical characteristic that leads to this kind of concentration of power and that of course has caused problems in the case of the semiconductor supply chain. So I think the first step is actually to recognize that it is very hard to avoid that physical geopolitical concentration of power. Thank you. with the last bit of my time. Yeah.
▶ 1:53:58I I just want to say that there's amazing innovation happening at very small companies and all of the big companies that are members of my association support helping those small companies to innovate. I've had some of those small companies get acquired by some of the big companies. And so there's a a natural sort of ecosystem that is out there and the government is I think really um the the main funer and assistant to getting those small companies to the point where they can demonstrate success and make the next step.
▶ 1:54:26So financial assistance as well as SBIS and grants and so on. Thank you. Appreciate the extra time, Mr. Chair, and I yield back. Gentlemen's time time's expired and now recognize gentleman from uh Utah uh Dr. Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. chair for convening this and thank you to the witnesses. You people are outstanding and I I uh just the quantum idea of one or a zero or one and a zero. You advocate for something most of us don't understand at all.
▶ 1:54:54And the fact is that these electrons and the molecules that we're made up of that that you're in a world that is just a bold new world of opportunity for us to learn and use to our advantage over time. So I'm really grateful for you being here. I'm also uh grateful as a physician to think about the opportunities for us to develop new drugs and when I'm making a decision, a life and death decision of what do I do with this person?
▶ 1:55:19The idea that you've advocated for that artificial intelligence and quantum go together and that we can have real-time data to help in this case doctors or nurses make those decisions based on differential diagnostics that would help us to actually save lives. So, so thanks for what you're doing. Although we're not all there yet, we're working on it just like um any moonshot or Mars shot or other opportunities like we talk about in this committee. So, Chair Babin, thanks for convening this.
▶ 1:55:46I'm also proud to say that Brigham Young University is the only NSF center scale investment in quantum research in the state of Utah. And I've also noticed in the map that was given in our briefing materials that it's pretty east coast ccentric um where all the research is happening. I' I'd like to see more in the the West, but um grateful that my alma mater, Brigham Y Young University, is one of those research centers. So, I I have a few questions. Thank you very much. Dr. Shadbolt, I'll start with you. I I was I was intrigued in your testimony.
▶ 1:56:14You said you came to the United States because this would be the best place for you to develop and and I I wanted to know in your an assessment and analysis of the United States of America, what was it that attracted you? What do we need to do in Congress to make that environment such that it's a it's a magnet for people like you all over the world that want to come here because of the environment that we've created?
▶ 1:56:35If you could help me with what are some of the parameters that you looked for in your uh entrance to our country, how can we promote that as Congress to bring other people? Congressman, where do I start? Yeah, right. Good question. I mean, you know, the US of course is the leader in uh these kind of frontier technologies in uh having developed I I can't even begin to list uh the the set of of advanced technology.
▶ 1:57:05I'm stunning the quantum physicist. All right, great. I'm glad you can't answer the question that easily. We need smarter intelligence. I I I think I think just just to to to um of so two pieces that I will mention our approach is to leverage the semiconductor industry.
▶ 1:57:22Our approach is to recognize that we need millions of cubits and to say well today we put billions of transistors into our cell phones yet let's use the same supply chains the same fabs etc to to build cubits and that's why we came initially to Silicon Valley and that's where we've done a lot of our development of the chip technology uh we're thrilled now to be at the position where we're looking at data center sized machines where as I said we need to cut steel lay concrete etc and in that context.
▶ 1:57:53We're delighted to be uh engaging with the Midwest ecosystem which has an incredible history. The of course the National Labs, the first sustained nuclear reaction, uh lifting entire city blocks off of the ground, reversing the flow of rivers, the audacity and accomplishment uh that is here is absolutely extraordinary. I will uh give uh credit to my nation for some piece of the industrial revolution, but I will give it to you. I'll yield my and thanks for losing the revolutionary war as well.
▶ 1:58:23That was that was helpful. So um and thanks for that and I can feel the vision that you're describing. Uh Dr. Chow and Dr. Tahon, I I wanted to so Google and Microsoft are in an arms race on some levels. You're comp your competitors, but you're sitting at the same table um willing to compete but also be collaborative. Can you help me with how that's working out? What can we do in Congress to promote that? Yeah, I'll start first. We love the competition. Honestly, the United States is an amazing place where all of these different ideas can flourish.
▶ 1:58:53You know, Dr. Shadbolt was talking about some of these. You look at the, you know, first person on the moon, the human genome project. All of these things are super inspiring. Google is very, very proud to be a part of that. And honestly, the competition is what helps to fuel us. It accelerates progress. It makes sure we don't sit on our laurels. There's a lot to do. Excellent. Yeah. I'll just add that, you know, I've been very fortunate in my career to work in a pretty nice field like everybody in quantum information science. Pretty nice. seems like that you're all very clever. I think um that's kind of unusual for other physics areas, just so you know.
▶ 1:59:23Um and I think the reason is that we're trying to do this impossible things. We're trying to build these quantum computers. We don't know exactly how to do it and we're all learning from each other. All the technologies learn from each other and steal ideas and give give each other ideas and we're trying to do this amazing thing and and then the next question is well, how do you make money from it and how do you make it a market? Um, but it's it's a great time to be in that era and uh that's all I have to say. Thank you for those answers.
▶ 1:59:52My time is expired, but I'll say Dr. Shadbolt, thank you for what you've said and I'm dedicated to making sure that the money infrastructure that what we can do in Congress is facilitate great people like you so that you can do the amazing work that you do. And I if money is part of that, certainly that's one thing Congress can do in a responsible fashion. But appreciate your testimony and thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Thank you very much. question. Now, the gentleman from V from Virginia, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all. Thank you to all the witnesses who are here today.
▶ 2:00:22I represent Northern Virginia, which we make chips. We also make the circuit boards because chips don't float. And so, we're very um excited to to be here today. And I uh want to first reemphasize what everyone else is saying, which is we have to reauthorize NQIA. We have to support these programs. And uh and we also have to support the chips act as well. But um Dr.
▶ 2:00:45Mergebacher uh for our friends in the Senate, what happens if we don't reauthorize NQIA to our leadership in Well, I I mean I think it's um going to send a a really um difficult or you know unfortunate signal that the US government doesn't seem to emphasize this critical and emerging technology.
▶ 2:01:09um it's it's a cutting edge technology that has so much um potential value and others we're not operating in a vacuum. So while there are many important priorities of course I think this is one that we can't afford to take our foot off the gas it's it's important for national security and economic security. Does anyone else want to add anything? Yeah, go ahead Dr. D. Yeah, thank you Congressman. I I grew up in Northern Virginia. I my office is in in Northern Virginia so thanks for that too.
▶ 2:01:36Um, look, I I agree with Celia completely. This is a signal to the world. Everybody else is doubling down. They're they're they've been following US leadership. Uh, we need to continue to leadership. I think there's also new things in the National Initiative Act reauthorization that can help us and uh I'd like to see that come through fruition. Thank you. I appreciate that. And uh Dr.
▶ 2:01:59Shadbolt, you've got a a great startup and you've talked about trying to source all your materials from the United States and but I'd love to know in your opinion um where you think we're most vulnerable when it comes to the supply chain of of quantum. I know for what I've read a couple times about cables being an issue for instance um what parts of the supply chain are there serious vulnerabilities? Yeah. So, Congressman, we I mentioned this earlier.
▶ 2:02:26We're actually in a psychonum is uh in a really quite unusually fortunate position for a hardware company where I think about 80% of our supply chain now is here in the United States. That's an extraordinarily large fraction especially for an organization that's making chips. Uh that was a deliberate uh move by by the company to establish that. Um it is a very diverse supply chain from chips to PCBAs as you mentioned to fiber optics cables uh etc.
▶ 2:02:57Our approach is to try to be realistic that it is not a good idea to completely build that thing from scratch. Our approach has been to architect the machine in such a way that we can fit ourselves into pre-existing highvolume sub supply chains and in doing so basically save a ton of time and money. That's how we've gone about doing it. That's not always easy.
▶ 2:03:21Often we put these suppliers outside of their comfort zone with our requests, but we've been uh very gratified actually by the success of those engagements with the big fabs, the packaging, the assembly, PCBAs as you mentioned. Um and delighted to uh give a more more in-depth perspective on how we've done that uh if that's interesting uh to the committee. Thank you. That that's helpful. Uh and I'm going to switch gears a little bit to to security.
▶ 2:03:48Um I I was in another hearing where the witness we were talking about signal for other reasons and um the signal app and um someone talked about how the even the signal app could be decrypted with quantum computing and uh I've gotten this um issue uh people brought this issue to me several times now and so I'm just curious uh how far away you all think we are from decrypting things like RSA or ECC or even Bitcoin if anyone wants to answer that fun question.
▶ 2:04:18So um the the short answer is we don't exactly know but we are not it's not going to be something that we wake up one day and all I mean unless there's some adversary that's doing it behind a curtain that we don't know about if if it's coming out from the sort of advances that are being made by the companies here at the table and others.
▶ 2:04:38um we're going to see that progress happening and the capability is going to be approached um sort of steadily and so we have and we already have these uh new cryptographic standards to protect things. So the real answer is good news migrate to the new standards to be sure you are pro quantum resistant at least if not quantum proof for the long term.
▶ 2:04:59So you're saying there's a plan moving forward for public and private sector to to deal with the idea of absolutely of postquantum cryptography. We've updated cryptographic standards before. We know how to do this. It takes time. It takes resources. Government needs to be part of that. Yeah. I mean let me just say that moving to quantum resistant cryptography doesn't require any quantum stuff. Like you can actually do it by replacing our classical codes and classical routers. Microsoft has a quantum safe program.
▶ 2:05:29N has launched initiatives but we do need to move it is going to be a big job to move the entire nation and ecosystem to these crime resistant tools. We do have some time with apps like Signal where it's real time. You know, you really need a computer that moment to to decrypt. But as we mentioned earlier in the session, you know, people saving data to decrypt later, even if it's 10, 20 years from now, is also a risk for certain special types of security data, health data, banking data.
▶ 2:05:59So, we do need leadership in ensuring that transition happens in a timely manner over the next decade. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. Now the gentleman from California, Mr. Fong. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh and thank you to all the witnesses uh for for your testimony. I know I know the National Quantum Initiative emphasizes advancing uh quantum technologies to maintain US leadership in science and innovation. I wanted to ask in terms of quantum networking infrastructure.
▶ 2:06:27Uh it's poised to be a cornerstone of this effort enabling secure communications, distributed quantum computing and advanced sensing applications critical for national security, economic competitiveness and scient scientific discovery. In this context, how critical is the development of quantum networking infrastructure? I've read about the pioneering work um at EPB's quantum network uh in Tennessee and the Air Force Research Lab in Rome, New York uh to achieving these goals.
▶ 2:06:55um specifically wanted to ask if if you had some thoughts on that. Um I I'll go first. Um quantum networking has some real tough engineering challenges that need to be overcome and uh because the the sort of traditional telecommunications equipment doesn't work when it comes to using transmitting quantum information. So that it's it's a field of active research.
▶ 2:07:20Um and and it should be because as these capabilities of extending the length of uh the ability to to connect quantum systems, it'll open up all kinds of applications. We can do sort of near short-term or or local area net you could say um communication and that's um a great way to start working in this area and discovering you know useful applications.
▶ 2:07:45Um there's some things that quantum networks are going to not be as good as classical just like quantum computers are not going to be as good as classical computers for certain things. So um we need to be looking at those applications that are going to benefit and as I mentioned earlier we're doing such a road map. Congressman uh in most cases you cannot fit a million cubits on one chip. So the very impressive systems that uh we see today um are typically implemented on just one chip, but most people know that they're going to have to scale to many chips.
▶ 2:08:14And so quantum networking is critically important um for the scaling of quantum computers as well as being interesting for sending messages. uh and I think it's actually a hugely uh helpful uh opportunity to center and sort of centralize some of the critical technologies that uh that we need and that many of our uh our colleagues in the space need to build large systems.
▶ 2:08:41Do you just to follow up I mean do you believe that we need to be uh investing more in these regional efforts uh to to build a scalable interoper interoperable quantum internet um to as you said accelerate the collaborative research the the workforce development in in in quantum information science uh I think that's helpful to uh a broad range of people in the quantum space I would emphasize that the really hard stuff is the devices right Now
▶ 2:09:11um the uh test bed uh locations uh of course um accelerate the the development of those devices and very welcome. Thank you. Um if I could ask Dr. Tahan uh you you mentioned in your testimony a de developing a national quantum supply chain strategy.
▶ 2:09:28Has there been um an inventory, I guess, in and if I could describe it as that, of needed supplies and products and and kind of figure out where we source it and and just identify those things, right? Is there been an effort right now to do that or are we do we need to do that? No, I think there's been a lot of efforts to do it in in different contexts. One thing you need to know about quantum is it's still extremely broad. Just across computing, you have three different technologies. There are more.
▶ 2:09:58All have different components. Some are similar. There's also sensing. There's also networking. There's many different technologies that we care about and we don't know which of those are going to win. Now, in the context of uh QEDC, they one of their job, you know, one of their selfproclaimed jobs is to ingest that data from companies to to provide that to government.
▶ 2:10:19also within the context of export controls and security the the national coordination office and other subcommittees in the government have done that those assessments there's tremendous amount of data already I think really now it's about how do you use that data to do something to make the supply chain more resilient yes so um we we were commissioned to uh by NIST to do a sort of supply chain framework project and that report is on our website publicly available uh we also did a quantum technology manufacturing roadmap that identif ified
▶ 2:10:49a lot of um inputs to being able to make quantum systems. So those are are available reports that outline this. The supply chain is a hard thing to map for the reasons that were mentioned. First of all, there are supply chains. You need different ones for different types of systems and um it's very sort of early stage and companies are somewhat sensitive about sharing some of that information. But um there's work being done, I can assure you. And actually there's a supply chain workshop in a couple of weeks that the Department of Commerce is putting together.
▶ 2:11:17So there's a lot of thought going onto this problem and trying to figure out um how to map it and uh and make it stronger. Yeah, it sounds like we need to probably move with a sense of urgency, especially with all the the focus on security. Uh I I'd be remiss. I appreciate California's significant quant uh investment in and involvement in quantum infrastructure.
▶ 2:11:37I would say as someone who represents the central valley of California that we hope that you would not um that you also include my region uh in terms of our educational institutions um and as well as developing our workforce. Uh with that being said, I I yield back. Thank you. And now I recognize a gentleoman from uh New York, Miss Gillan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding this incredibly important hearing um because quantum technologies will certainly transform our society.
▶ 2:12:06So, my first question is for you, Dr. Marisbacher. Um, the PRC has declared that quantum technology is a key priority um in its five-year plan, and they're determined to overtake the United States um in terms of quantum capabilities. Uh, and we cannot wait any longer to catalyze investment in quantum. What do we need to do right now to prevent the PRC from winning in the competition for quantum uh and AI?
▶ 2:12:34Well, I think there are a number of things that can be done. One is to um make investments in infrastructure so that um all of the results of the research can be taken to the next step and start to be sort of tested out for real uh practical use and there are companies who need access to test beds and um capabilities that small companies don't have.
▶ 2:12:57So I think there's some infrastructure investments that could be made um just uh allow using QEDC which has done a lot of identifying of what industry needs and sharing that back to the basic research investors so that they can say oh we'll call from for some research some basic research that's going to address those needs that have been identified as critical. So I think there are a lot of things we can do to accelerate the um results of our investment.
▶ 2:13:25Um, I I can share with you more, but uh there's there's a lot of that can be done. I would appreciate that if um I'll have my staff follow up with you. Thank you. Um and um Dr. Shadbolt, you said that you came as an immigrant to the United States to start your venture in quantum here because the United States was the best place for you to do that.
▶ 2:13:48Could you elaborate a little bit about why you think the United States is the best place for you to start this entity and why what we need to do to make sure we continue to be a place where we will get I think you said the rare elite talent and why they should come to the United States. Yes. So thank you for the question. I mean the the United States of course has made a multi-deade uh investment into uh science and technology.
▶ 2:14:15Uh which means that uh many of the best people in the world are here. The infrastructure is here. Uh the um willingness to go after these grand challenges uh for humanity is here. And then of course uh the industrial you know um uh startup ecosystem. Basically, we're a startup company first and foremost.
▶ 2:14:37Uh our uh funding is overwhelmingly from private sources, and we knew when we started the company, we would have to raise significant capital for something that has never been done before. And um to come and and do that uh here was a tremendous opportunity for us. It was a no-brainer um uh when we when we first came here. Um and that has been uh reciprocated, I would say.
▶ 2:15:03you know, we uh, as you've heard, are now spending hundreds of millions of dollars uh on manufacturing here in the United States, and we've been delighted and uh and um gratified by the opportunities that we've enjoyed here in the United States. So, what do we need to do here in Congress to make sure that United States still continues to draw folks like yourself to come here and to think that this remains one of the best places to start and develop quantum technology?
▶ 2:15:33uh support the development of the best people, the best technology and the best Thank you. Um and Dr. Tahan, you talked a little bit about this. Um in order to advance quantum technology, we need to make investment for the next generation of leaders. How can we best do that? Um thank you, Congressman. You know, I was just thinking that on the drive over here, we passed the Air and Space Museum. My first experience as a scientist was an intern there.
▶ 2:16:03I got that job because my dad, who's an immigrant, was working on fixing the air conditioners at night. He was a night worker at at the Smithsonian. It's experiences like that that make scientists. You know, what Congress can do, what we can do as companies, what we all can do is give young people opportunities to show how they can contribute and give them the tools to be successful. Um, part of that, and I'm just going to give a little bit of tilt on many of these questions, is continuing to to work closely with our allies.
▶ 2:16:32This is a global uh initiative. Uh, it's extremely broad technologies. We don't know what's what's going to win. We we will win by being first together. You know, at Microsoft, we have a big outpost in Denmark, extremely uh talented people there, also in the Netherlands. Our supply chains are global. We need to ensure that we are leading the global team to get to this technology first because there's no prize for second place here.
▶ 2:16:59We need to get first so that we can get to the market first and then reap the rewards of more jobs for those people we're Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. I now recognize Congressman Beg from the great state of Alaska for five minutes. Thank you. Um, I've got a few questions here and we got a limited time so uh I'm going to move through these quickly.
▶ 2:17:24Um, what would you say are the value of US patents when our primary adversary in this specific sector does not uh honor intellectual property protections? Do you believe US quantum investments are being adequately protected through our current framework? And if not, what thoughts do you have to bolster protections for our quantum technology portfolio? And I'll direct that to Dr.
▶ 2:17:49Well, um I think that we cannot give up on the rule of law and the um you know importance of protecting intellectual property is in the constitution, right? Um so trying to encourage uh and work closely with others who believe the same is the main thing. Um, I can assure you that companies are very aware of risks of working with partners that maybe don't have the similar uh values and respect.
▶ 2:18:18So, I think that um we we need to work to to to make that protection um enforceable and and uh worldwide in a sense. Um that said, companies have, you know, things that they don't put into patents and keep them as trade secrets and and that's also a strategy that is useful. Thank you. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Um, as a founder of the company, board member, I would be negligent if I didn't uh publish patents as fast as humanly possible.
▶ 2:18:48And I'm fortunate to have a lawyer with a PhD in quantum computing who's been incredibly prolific in that respect. But to your question, in the end, the only thing that matters is winning and getting to the end as fast as humanly possible. And to the earlier question, that's what the United States has historically been uh incredibly good at. Thank you. Um, you know, we recognize that that there is a tremendous urgency as it relates to postquantum cryptography, and we've kind of touched on that a couple of times already this morning.
▶ 2:19:17Um, we recognize that AI brings with it some significant risks as well as tremendous opportunities for humanity. And I'm curious uh among uh and this can be directed to any of you.
▶ 2:19:30Do you perceive there to be any similar uh risk trade-offs with quantum technology that we need to be thinking about in Yeah, quantum and I've I've said at this intersection of national security and um the quantum industry for you know most of my career quantum has always had this dual use right you know the first killer app for quantum is breaking codes you know that was the first code that that kind of unleashed the first set of funding so we always have to be cognizant of the way technology can be
▶ 2:20:01used for good or ill that doesn't mean we can be slow like you know there's this trade-off between speed and security you can stay home and never leave your house and be safe, but at some point we need to go get a job and, you know, provide for our family. So, it's security really comes from both economic um leadership and the security we place on things. So, we have to balance that. But we I'll just reiterate what other people have said here.
▶ 2:20:27Being first is the means to establishing that Uh and this again open anyone on the panel. uh do we see any current pathways to generalized computing applications uh originating from uh quantum computing Yes. So I I can comment on on on on this. Quantum computers are not expected to replace uh conventional computers for many applications.
▶ 2:20:56We're not going to run uh Microsoft PowerPoint unfortunately on the quantum computer. Um but where there is opportunity for generalization is actually in uh some of the application areas that we've heard about earlier. We do believe that quantum computers can be used to generate data that will then be used to train conventional machine learning uh methods and basically upgrade their ca their capability in a way that we believe will generalize.
▶ 2:21:23I think it's important to um follow up on that and say that the the first um applications will be more application specific. We'll learn a lot and then you'll get eventually to the more general purpose computing. And so um there's there's a lot of different technology approaches being tried. Some may even be better at certain types of applications than others. We may end up with multiple types of quantum computers.
▶ 2:21:47And then there's the real opportunity for hybrid architectures that fuse GPUs and CPUs and QPUs all together. And that's a whole another uh you know research challenge to to develop that hybrid capability. It's great. It's very exciting. And I didn't think I'd get to my bonus question, but I have 10 seconds left. Do we think that we'll ever be able to achieve FTL communication with quantum? No. Absolutely not.
▶ 2:22:15two nos and two I'm not answering and I am out of time. Uh I yield back. So who's up? The gentleman from California, Mr. Whitesides. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh I appreciate the opportunity to uh connect with such distinguished witnesses today and for the leadership that you and the ranking member uh are showing in this crucial area.
▶ 2:22:41Uh that said, I must begin by noting that this hearing takes place against the backdrop of a new round of devastating cuts to federal science programs and renewed threats for federally funded scientists across the United States. Uh this time they are in the administration's recently released skinny budget in which the Trump administration has formalized what they intend to do with America's science It is, simply put, a disaster.
▶ 2:23:11A series of devastating cuts that would nearly guarantee that we seed leadership to China across a wide range of technical and scientific fields. Let's be specific. a 24% reduction of NASA's budget, a 50% reduction of the National Science budget, a 37% reduction of the National Institute of Health's budget, and a 33% cut at the CDC.
▶ 2:23:40I would note that these cuts are incredibly on average a greater percentage than proposed for most other non-defense federal agencies. So science and technology, the foundation for a growing economy, stronger national security, and better health, is being singled out by this administration for greater cuts.
▶ 2:24:01We learned just last week that the National Science Foundation has been forced to stop awarding new research grants and from supplying aotted funds for existing grants. No doubt this is why the NSF director, who Trump appointed in his first term, just resigned. NIH has awarded far less than half the grants it did at this point in the president's first term.
▶ 2:24:27That means that functionally the administration has already cut hundreds of millions of dollars from crucial medical research on cancer, Alzheimer's, and heart disease. A research group has recently found for the first time the number of top AI talent researchers coming or leaving the United States is about to go net negative. More researchers leaving the US than coming.
▶ 2:24:55Our top universities report doubledigit drops in the number of technical grad students that they will be supporting this year and expect much greater collapses in those numbers over the course of the next year. All this means that we are interrupting the careers of young scientists and top technologists who may either leave their fields or go to Europe or China to pursue their careers.
▶ 2:25:24Damage is being done every day and this committee I believe needs to make sure that its voice is heard because there is no time to waste. At its core, today's hearing is about the power of science. We all recognize that federal investment in science drives progress across every sector of our economy.
▶ 2:25:49That power is only possible because of a long-standing commitment to our science agencies and trust in the institutions that carry out this work. If we are serious about reauthorizing the National Quantum Initiative and maintaining US leadership in quantum development, we cannot allow these cuts to move forward. We have no time to lose. We as a committee need to be clear that these cuts are unacceptable if we intend to continue to lead.
▶ 2:26:18Science must remain a national priority, not a political target. Thank you and I yield back. Okay. And now the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Herd. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Uh thank you to our witnesses for being here. I have a question first for uh Dr. Shadbolt and Dr. Shu. Um we frequently hear about the need for quantum ready for a quantum ready workforce beyond PhDs in physics.
▶ 2:26:46What technical gaps do you see in the quantum industry pipeline? Thank you for the question. honestly the primary requirement for me is to have availability of the best people and that includes the best welders, the best uh systems people, the best uh PhDs in quantum information and those people exist
▶ 2:27:16here in the United States. That's why we why we came here and that is thanks to again decades of of investment by this nation. Um but uh the so so really like from my from my point of view our approach has been to uh build a system in a way where we don't need as much novel capability as you might anticipate. We can find the people that we need uh in chip manufacturing, packaging, assembly, etc.
▶ 2:27:44Uh I just want them to be absolutely brilliant and uh free and motivated to get on and help us build this thing as fast as possible. Thank you. Oh, okay. I'll comment quickly. Uh, look, the workforce in quantum computing has changed quite a bit. Google quantum AI started uh in 2012. At that time, our workforce was primarily PhDs in physics and computer science. Today, that's completely different.
▶ 2:28:09Um, we're hiring a number of hardware software engineers as well as technicians um to your college degrees really to help us build up and scale and engineer our systems. That increasingly is going to be what we need. We want to make sure that people with fabrication expertise, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering and others are available and importantly people that are thinking about the applications, the end use of these computers. Are we doing a good job of getting those expertise that that training here in the United States?
▶ 2:28:37The United States in our opinion is doing some good work, but we need to do more. Okay. Thank you. Um, as you may know, the Mountain West, particularly I'm from Colorado. the Mountain West, Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, was recently designated a quantum tech hub and it supports Elevate Quantum, which is a resource research consortium of nearly 120 organizations working to commercialize quantum technology and and to build a strong innovation system. Um, and universities obviously have an important role in that effort.
▶ 2:29:08I recently met with leaders from the Cardo School of Minds in my home state who are developing a quantum ready workforce and building an underground research facility in the university's experimental mine. Uh imagine that Cardo School of Minds has a mind. Uh and I'm told that actually that's an ideal environment for breakthroughs in secure communications and and quantum computing. Um Dr. Dr.
▶ 2:29:30Murbacher, as we look to move beyond basic research and realize the national security and economic benefits of quantum technologies, can you talk a little bit about the role you think universities should play and what more can Congress do to support their efforts to bridge the gap to commercialization specifically?
▶ 2:29:50Well, the School of Minds is a member of the consortium and they're a great partner because they are focused on really um ultimate uses even though they're doing a lot of outstanding basic research there. Um I want to actually follow up briefly on your question about the the workforce um needs because we did a study early on where we asked the companies what jobs are you going to be filling and what skills do those people need and most of the jobs did not have quantum in the title and most of the skills didn't have quantum in them.
▶ 2:30:17they were software engineer or a photonic engineer, laser specialist. So we have uh and it gets to really Mr. Whiteside's comment too. We need to fund the whole ecosystem because most of the talent needs a little bit of quantum understanding on top of their deep disciplinary knowledge and we have great institutions like the school of minds to to create those.
▶ 2:30:39So adding quantum into the curricula so that those traditionally trained engineers and scientists are ready to go will just be you know the the easy solution even as we kind of expand the the field. Um universities can I think um pay attention to their um their partners at places like Elevate Quantum.
▶ 2:31:01a great example of bringing the private sector and the academic and government laboratory specialists all together so that they can understand the roles that each other the problems each other can solve and the needs that the others have. So it'll be a very synergistic effort and and kudos to Colorado for what they've done and I will say I believe that one of the main reasons that that is there is because of course the great universities and NIST uh Boulder campus. Wonderful. Thank you so much uh for that testimony.
▶ 2:31:31With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. And now I'd like to recognize the uh gentleman from New York, Mr. Thank you, uh Mr. Chairman. Um so, this is going to sound off off topic. Does anybody here know who the uh Ivy League men's lacrosse championship team was this year? Okay, it was Cornell, which I represent. uh 2025 ECAC hockey champion, Cornell. Okay, here's okay, here's one you guys are going to know.
▶ 2:32:02The first uh university to demonstrate uh nonabilion anons, which as we all know here are uh two-dimensional particles that are the key ingredient for realizing topological quantum community. Anybody know what university the first one was? It was, you know, it was Cornell. uh both because I led you there and because uh Dr.
▶ 2:32:25Chu uh that uh breakthrough was the result of a partnership between Cornell and Google and I was hoping uh for anybody here who doesn't know um what um nonabilian anons are uh if you could talk a little bit about what that is. I know very well obviously what it is but um if you could if you could uh teach teach everybody else.
▶ 2:32:49Uh and then more importantly, most importantly here, what I'd love to hear is about the value of your collaboration with uh Cornell and we're just so proud of the research and the breakthroughs and innovation that that is happening on campus and uh would love to give you the opportunity to highlight uh that that important work together. Yeah, absolutely. Um we are extremely proud of that work with Cornell. Two points that I'll make. First of all, collaboration is critical. This is not a project that Google could have done on our own.
▶ 2:33:19We absolutely had to partner with Cornell experts on this. Uh Google partners with over 60 universities for exactly that reason because so much expertise exists in academia. We've got to continue those types of partnerships. Uh the second uh point I'll make since you brought up nonabillion anons. You know, we've been talking a lot about the applications of quantum computers, right? That's what people are excited about at the end of the day. We're building these incredible machines because we want to solve otherwise impossible problems.
▶ 2:33:45This work that you cite is a good example of what is possible on quantum computers today. Today they are not yet capable as other panelists have mentioned of real world beyond classical applications. A lot of the applications are still best performed at this point on classical computers. However, we expect that to change as the systems continue on. Today's computers in quantum computing are actually though capable of really interesting new discoveries in physics. We're really proud about that. I appreciate it. Yeah, go ahead.
▶ 2:34:13Yeah, I guess I'd be remiss in not talking about topological eneons. I was just at Cornell. Of course, that was actually where exactly where I was. Um I was just at Cornell actually. Um at Microsoft, we're actually trying to build physical topological cubits based on the same physics that was simulated on Google's and also continuums quum computers built from other types of cubits.
▶ 2:34:34And you have other professors at Cornell who are trying to make the devices themselves and also some really great expertise in cryosimos which is used to control our chip. Um so keep doing it. That's great. Well, thank you. I want to invite all of you uh to come to campus. I know some of you have been on campus but I'd love to invite all of you to come to campus with me to we'll do a round table. We'll meet with folks who are working on this and find more ways that we can all uh work together.
▶ 2:35:00I won't under oath ask you to accept my invitation here, but we'll follow up uh with all of all of you. I do uh Mr. Chairman uh ask unanimous consent to enter into the record um some information about the partnership between uh Google and Cornell that shows just the incredible um uh work that's happening there.
▶ 2:35:17And I and I do think it's important to highlight um how important it is for this committee, the Congress, uh for the federal government to invest in research and development at our nation's universities because we are as a country, we're better off, we're more secure, uh we're more innovative, we're more prosperous, uh when we're investing in science, I think if you really want to make America great again, you're going to put us at the forefront of innovation, and you're not going to let uh China eat our lunch on on all of this.
▶ 2:35:47So, I'm concerned with uh the administration's budget uh which would slash research and development especially at our universities. Uh it's going to put us at a major disadvantage in the competition against China. I also think it's pennywise and pound foolish because uh this cuts to science today are going to cost us so much more in the long run. Um right now we have this great deal with our universities where you know Cornell and Bingmpington and other universities are footing most of the bill for the infrastructure for the labs.
▶ 2:36:17Uh and this administration is trying to undercut that which is just going to push those costs onto taxpayers. We we have great partnerships with between universities and innovators as you've all described and I think we need to be uh funding that not kneecapping it. Um Dr. Chev, I'm going to follow up with you as my time's expiring here later. I want to learn more about the incredible work y'all are doing in upstate New York and ways that I can be supportive. I really appreciated what you said earlier about the jobs with the iron workers and and the trades.
▶ 2:36:46Um and we want to make sure those those are good jobs in upstate New York and uh would love to work with you on that. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. And now gentleman from Georgia, Dr. McCormick. Thank you, Dr. Chairman. Uh I appreciate you all being here. I have so many questions only about I'm going have to have you limit your your answers to get each one of you a good question to less than a minute. Uh look at what quantum technologies represents into the future and and its promise and its application.
▶ 2:37:14uh the way we get the sources to to actually do the quantum projections, the the research, the integration between all the people, all the different nuances that it takes to put this together and actually the way it's going to be applied are really important to me, including the supply side economics of this as well as the investment. Uh so I'll make this as concise as possible. If you can kind of think about how it ties in as we go. I'll start with you uh Dr. Merchocker.
▶ 2:37:40uh quantum hardware relies heavily on rare earth minerals uh many of which we get from China and they've actually kind of cornered the market on many they they get from Africa and other places where they've kind of exploited. What do you see to our future as far as the way we're securing our ability to gain those uh resources to keep us competitive in this market? Well, this is uh a really important question. Of course, quantum is not the only technology that depends on rare earths. In fact, it probably has a relatively small footprint uh overall, but it's critical nevertheless.
▶ 2:38:11And um so that would be just an example of one of the types of materials that are going to need to be secured um along with things like helium 3 and ultra pure silicon, isotopically pure. So there's there many materials including rare earths that we want to make sure we have access to in order to build these systems. So you mentioned helium 3. I guess there's a lot on the dark side of the moon. We'll see how that goes. Uh they can't take it all. Uh Dr.
▶ 2:38:40Shadbolt, DARPA is supporting several initiatives to move quantum sensing technologies from the lab into the field. Uh what do you see as far as what we can do to help that actually become applicable and what do you think the applications are going to be as they move forward? Yes. So, Congressman, we were absolutely delighted to have graduated to the final phase of the DARPA utility scale quantum computing program, now QBI.
▶ 2:39:05Um, and I would really strongly commend the approach that DARPA has taken to doing this principally that that is an evaluation program. So what DARPA did in uh pursuing this was to start from an assumption uh that quantum computers are useless and that nobody knows how to build one and then to evaluate the claims of companies like ours who were claiming that it's going to be tremendously valuable and we do know how to build one and it's been extremely valuable to us
▶ 2:39:35to have been engaged with the OD and the government in that kind of red team mode of operation. I can't commend that enough as a robustifying sanitizing uh uh effect. I I tell I'm kind of scared about the future of quantum because I think the first one there kind of wins uh because that ends up opening Pandora's box to all the things we know it can be applied to. Dr.
▶ 2:39:58Tahan, what do you think the top application or the top applications if there's a couple or a few are going to be of quantum? We always know that it has to do with maybe code cracking and stuff like that. the defense to that, you know, offense, defense, you mentioned red team. Uh what do you what do you see is the the future in the next five to 10 years of its application and who wins? Yeah.
▶ 2:40:20Well, in quantum computing, um specifically, I think in addition to the codereing aspects of a quantum computer, I think the making things is what a quantum computer is going to be best at. helping uh scientists and engineers design new materials, new chemicals, new uh drugs and pharmaceuticals and adding to our abilities that AI is already progressing but allowing AI to reach areas that are hard to simulate.
▶ 2:40:47Like the things that we most that are hardest for a classical computer to do are the things that actually the the universe does really well and a quantum computer can help help us solve those better. So I think those are going to be the first scientific applications. We're going to see how they affect our economy.
▶ 2:41:01I'll just give a even broader point of view is that sensing now is impactful to our global positioning system to operating our military in in GPS denied environments like that also needs investment to um bring to military applications also biomedical imaging. So there's a real lot of opportunities beyond couldn't agree more especially on that that from military standpoint the application into uh terrain navigation and so forth and then in the mapping out the human body and how we're going to solve those problems. Dr. child.
▶ 2:41:30I'll say the last one for you and be quick. Sorry. Uh when it talks about startups and universities and and people are trying to develop this stuff and it's broad application, everybody wants a piece of the pie. How do we divide it up? How do we get people included? How do we develop that work base, the education base for what we need to get done in this industry? Yeah, this is absolutely critical. We're going to need every single part of the United States, different sectors, all working together. Everything from universities, small businesses, private sector, large companies, and the government.
▶ 2:41:59So how do we do that? I think there's a lot of opportunities. Number one, if National Quantum Initiative can support more opportunities for public private partnership, that's things like finding ways for industry and academia to collaborate better together, industry and national labs. Um and looking at these shared use facilities really going to help uh encourage and increase the entire pie. I'm out of time. Thanks for your time. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. And uh now uh the gentleoman from Maryland, Representative Mlan Delaney.
▶ 2:42:30Thank you, Mr. Chair and our ranking member. Um I'm now the I guess sitting in her seat for organizing this. Um and thank you for hanging in there for this long hearing. You know, preparing for this hearing. My daughter Lily last night sent me a clip from her favorite movie um Everything Everywhere All at Once and the Quantum Theory that goes with that.
▶ 2:42:49And I think as a freshman member of Congress um in this administration and with a very big territory um I could use little quantum properties so maybe we can like research on that but I think all members would love that as well. So I represent the sixth district of Maryland. Um and Maryland is as you know a national hub for quantum research and development. Um it includes uh Gathersburg which is the main campus for NIST.
▶ 2:43:13Um, and NIST, as you know, as we've spoken about, and I've heard you all give testimony, is is one of our nation's or uh pre-minent agencies to enhance US competitiveness and leadership uh through its research, evaluation, and partnership, particularly with private companies. Um, NIST has played a central role in the US quantum innovation ecosystem since its early stages with its creation of the quantum logic gate.
▶ 2:43:36and the 1990s discoveries by NIST scientists have underpinned numerous modern quantum So in the chips and science act and we we've talked about um you know uh both the reauthorization on quantum but also how that intersects with chips and science congress uh directed n to develop standards for quantum communications and networks and other technologies like we discussed like uh quantum sensing are relatively nent and lack standards for safe and effective use.
▶ 2:44:06Here in Maryland, um we have a joint quantum institute and joint center of quantum information and their partnerships with the University of Maryland and NIST. Unfortunately, as um uh Rep. Right side said, the administration is taking action to reduce the agency through riffs, retirements, and buyouts. And I have to since I represent NIST, I have to bring this up.
▶ 2:44:28Um and in fact the skinny budget calls for a 325 million reduction in this funding citing support for climate science as a radical um agenda. So I'm going to say first to Dr. um Mersbacher uh why is it important that NIS continue to be placed to uphold science and um research and attract top talent in quantum and then after that like I'd like to hear from the companies and um and Dr.
▶ 2:44:56Shadol about how um when we have these cuts what we can do to mitigate and how private industry and others can and step in. Thank you Congresswoman. Um I am enormously proud of NIST and have been working closely with them when I was doing semiconductor and nano electronics and now quantum. Um so I would I sort of made a list as you were talking. I was sort of expecting maybe you would want to know what what is NIST good for in this space.
▶ 2:45:22So um number one is their um they are the place where you develop the ability to measure things because if you're me you in order to have standards in order to understand what it is you're doing you have to be able to measure it and NIST is the place where what they call metrology or measurement science is done in this country and um that does anyone else do that well I mean there's you know as a former researcher in the lab I was making lots of measurements and trying to press the limits and and extend the
▶ 2:45:52use of tools, but those tools ultimately trace back to NIST often. Um, they have standards in their name and people confuse that with standard setting. They generally aren't the standard setting organization. They support it and they help make the US industry stronger as a result. Um there are some proposals in the reauthorization to establish a quantum engineering institute similar to the examples you gave and I think that's a great suggestion would fill a gap and also they might be the one who would set up some kind of quantum sandbox to do some exploring.
▶ 2:46:23Um again they have five Nobel prizes in quantum physics. They are the deepest bench we have in the US government. They also and I did a survey of my members. I asked them how many of your key employees spent time at NIST and the number was not to me shocking but really high. CEOs and founders, CTOs, chief st scientists and so on all came through NIST. So if you cut funding to NIST, you're cutting access to those key type of experts.
▶ 2:46:50And then of course they do work on standards and postquantum cryptographic um areas. They're the lead on that. So I can't say enough about how important NIST is. Thank you. I'll briefly comment. Look, NIST is incredibly important. Um, three, you know, points I want to highlight. One, our cubits at Google come from foundational work at NIST in the9s. So, that is incredibly celebrated. That's important. Um, two, NIST is leading, as Dr. Murbucker said, at the development and and of postquantum cryptography standards. That is super important.
▶ 2:47:20Three, NIST is engaging globally to look at what the right quantum standards are as the field matures. Um, look, we in the private sector are going to absolutely do our part. We want to make sure the US succeeds. That being said, government expertise in some ways is irreplaceable. We'd love to see the US government continue to lead. Same. There are thousands of detectors on this wafer built shoulderto-shoulder with chips that go into laptops and cell phones. And much of that technology was developed at NIST. You're the last one.
▶ 2:47:50I'll just add to the NIST Lovefest. Um NIST is a you know jewel of the federal quantum ecosystem um period. Thank you. Thank you for being a cheerleader for my um for my agency that I love so much. So, thank you so much. And I'll uh submit for the record some other questions. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much. And uh now I'd like to recognize a gentleman from Florida, Mr. Herodopoulos. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for putting this meeting together.
▶ 2:48:13And it's been so it's so important that we lead the world in technology, especially as we face the challenges from the communist Chinese, and we must win the space race, let alone the technology race. And I want to applaud each of the folks who came in today. Your expertise is invaluable.
▶ 2:48:27And as we make these important decisions about the future of our country uh we all recognize the importance of space and the technological advances we've made through it whether it be communication uh batteries solar even foam memory foam and velcro I think so uh it's it's an exciting time to be a part of this committee and I think this kind of conversation in a bipartisan way which is fantastic is something we should all uh aspire to. I appreciate Mr. McCormack from Georgia asking about the helium 3 issue as the subcommittee chairman.
▶ 2:48:57It's something that I know we're all the chairman and I are very passionate making sure we make it to the moon first and those possibilities are there with helium 3 and the importance for cooling and these incredible computers that you are are part of. But I'll just ask one question as we're kind of winding down today and it's to uh Dr. Murbacher if you don't mind uh answering this question. I'm very interested in the way that a quantum network um can connect to DoD, NASA, national laboratories, universities, and the industrial base in order to advance space research and development.
▶ 2:49:26Could you please discuss how quantum quantum networking can be most effectively used to advance the development of space technology for national security purposes? Well, I'm not the expert on this, but I I will give you some um insights on it. So in some ways it's almost maybe the other way around.
▶ 2:49:46I think space applications are going to drive the technology in many ways and we'll find ways to take advantage of space platforms um the things you can do in in low gravity and so on to to leverage quantum behaviors and quantum technologies. um space offers a lot of um interesting challenges and so I think that there are in the networking communications area um some real opportunities and and there also are some advantages.
▶ 2:50:16China actually did a one of the earliest demonstrations of space-based communication quantum communication um and and and they really are the lead in that area. So um there's a lot of reasons why NASA should be part of the NQI um because there are these kinds of applications.
▶ 2:50:32I will also turn it around and say that um some of the detectors that are used to measure really faint light and other things that are developed for space are quantum based and so there's a real connection between the quantum um sensing and and detection area and uh NASA's mission and space applications. Thanks with my remaining time. Mr. Chairman, if there's others who want to add to that question, I'd be happy to reserve this time for you or there's other issues I'd like to give folks who maybe didn't get to say some things.
▶ 2:51:00they've had the opportunity as we're winding down that you want to add to this issue or others. Uh Congressman on on space firstly I'll disappoint you. We've taken approach where we try to avoid helium 3. We actually don't need helium 3. Um uh we're we're uh distinguished in that. Um but there are companies who pull fiber in space. Uh some of the lowest loss optical fiber uh that you can possibly make. That's done in in low gravity. We would dearly love to get our hands on some of that.
▶ 2:51:30So, uh, I think there's wide range of of of, uh, of opportunities to be had there. Yeah, Mr. Han, I'll just add, you know, there's there's, I think, incredible opportunities for NASA to contribute their technical expertise for sensing, you know, remote sensing. Um, GPS is based on quantum clocks. There's there's new ideas for mapping, you know, with much more precision detail the Earth from space.
▶ 2:51:53Um, I'll also say that NASA is extremely good at education and outreach and having them as part of the National Quantum Initiative was extremely valuable the first five years and and if we can get them funded more the second five, I think it will bring a lot to the table in creating this new generation of people we need for all our missions. Thank you. Maybe I'll add one other point. Um, you talked about Helium 3.
▶ 2:52:16I think that's a fantastic example of really fundamental research that is now implicating and impacting absolute applications. Um I actually have a photo here of one of our um we call these cryostats, cryogenic refrigerators. Um they go all the way down to almost absolute zero. This is colder than anywhere in outer space. We mount our quantum chips there um in order to get the quantum properties we need for computing. That is made possible because of helium 3.
▶ 2:52:43that original research was funded decades and decades ago by uh the US government at uh research universities including Cornell and so we're very grateful we just example of how we continue to build on top of basic R&D. Well, thank you very much again, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding this hearing today. I think it's been very helpful for all of us. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. And now the gentleoman from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi.
▶ 2:53:07Uh, thank you so much to the chair and ranking member, but really thank you to the witnesses for your expertise and your enthusiasm, which we desperately need. So, I I've been on this committee for more than a dozen years. I was here when crafted and passed passed the original national quantum initiative. I was here for the update in the NDA. I was here for chips and science when we crafted and passed that and really laid the groundwork for US leadership. But I I want to say today it feels like that progress is at risk.
▶ 2:53:36uh looking at the cuts and I I I know this is a theme you've heard today, but but I want to reiterate the the sort of broad and seemingly indiscriminate cuts to the agencies that support NQI programs, including reductions in staff critical funding. I mean, we're talking about NIS, NSF, NASA, Department of Energy. This really threatens our uh leadership in the and the workforce pipeline that we need to sustain it.
▶ 2:54:01uh and the repeated uh attacks on science, whether it be through budget freezes or hollowing out education at the efforts at the NSF. These are already having chilling effects. Uh graduate departments across the country are seeing reductions in admissions. Talented scientists are leaving, some being recruited away uh as our future workforce looks like it is attack under attack and often being gutted.
▶ 2:54:26Uh my other committee is education and the workforce and I serve on the subcommittee on higher education and right now uh we are very aware that the administration is creating disincentives for people to come from around the globe to our leading institutes of higher education. Congress is also making it harder. The bill that passed out of the reconciliation bill that passed out of the education committee will make it harder for people uh to access higher education unless they're from a wealthy family.
▶ 2:54:55And that's the wrong direction for our country. We need diversity of uh in our workforce uh particularly on these techn technological issues. And I want to be clear, you can't claim to support quantum leadership and then simultaneously dismantle the ecosystem that makes it possible. And I know Mr. Whitesides was talking about that ecosystem.
▶ 2:55:15I really hope our witnesses will help us understand how these trends uh are affecting and are expected to affect their work and what Congress can do to really prevent this from unraveling. So, Dr. Chow, um Google quantum AI exists at the intersection of research and deployment. I love your picture. You know, people learn in different ways. How is the federal government's uncertainty around funding and workforce affected your ability to hire and retain top tier talent?
▶ 2:55:41And what can you tell a policy maker who claims that the private sector can fill the gap? Because you noted when you showed us the photo the the the fundamental basic research that came from US government agencies. Thanks for the question. I'd like to highlight a few things. One, um you know first of all of course Google is also trying to do our part to develop the workforce.
▶ 2:56:06So, we've invested in a number of educational uh opportunities from uh graduate students, faculty all the way through two-year colleges. We have a partnership with Santa Barbara Community College really to help train up the workforce and also K12 education partnering with Q12 uh partnership and others. So, there's a lot that we are trying to do. The private sector cannot do all of the work. It's impossible. We've really long depended on the strong pipeline coming from universities, from high schools, from colleges, uh really supported in large part by the US government.
▶ 2:56:36It is important to see that uh really continue. Maybe second point that I'll make and we talk about again the applications of quantum computers. It's why we're so excited. The quantum field is not just about quantum, right? We were happy to see in the skinny budget, right? Recommendation for continued funding in quantum. But the opportunity, the hope is to touch so many other fields like drug discovery, chemistry, um, you know, industrial applications and more. And we'd really love to make sure that that broadbas is here. I I appreciate that. Dr.
▶ 2:57:04Mersbacher, the American Physics Institute conducted a study in 2023 that projects a drop in first year physics and grad students in the United States. At least 600 students per year is anticipated. So, how would this contraction in the talent pipeline affect industry readiness in quantum over the next say 5 to 10 years? Well, it certainly isn't going to help. Um, physics is fundamental to um the the field and while it's not the only discipline.
▶ 2:57:31Uh, it's it's central and core and I think all of these individuals at the table are are, you know, um, exhibit A in a sense. So, um, there's there's sort of no substitute for having a pipeline of talent that needs to be sustained. And so, those numbers are certainly going to be concerning. Um, and I guess, you know, you can say the other side of the equation is we need to attract the best and the brightest to come here and to stay here.
▶ 2:57:57That's another piece of the equation, but building our own, you know, we can't not build our own and grow our own as well, especially for jobs that require clearances and so on. Sure. Sure. I I I just as I I yield back note that there are several global companies in the district I represent. Uh and there are concerns about the what is happening now around the globe in terms of people coming to the United States for business purposes, for higher education. We have to turn that around uh for our the sake of our our future. Absolutely.
▶ 2:58:27I I just as an example got asked to give a reference for someone who is leaving a job here and going to another country. I won't say which one for an opportunity in quantum. Yeah, it is uh uh unfortunately not the first time I've heard that. Thank you. And I yel back. Thank you. And now the gentleman from Texas, the famous Randy Well, I'm just Brenda Weber's husband, but thanks for that, Dr. Dr. Town. I'm going to come to you first.
▶ 2:58:54As many of us are aware, one of the most frequently occurring problems our nation's colleges and university as well as other prominent research institutions is the extensive nature of intellectual property theft IP uh from foreign nationals. Uh how is y'all's organization working to protect American IP from this threat to national Yeah, thank you for that question, Congressman. It's it's an important one.
▶ 2:59:18Uh we all believe that this technology is going to be extremely valuable um to our companies to the to America. At Microsoft we take uh security extremely seriously. We have a dedicated uh security team for quantum focus on IP, operational security, people security, network security and so on. Um uh we know that we're a target for um people trying to get our IP.
▶ 2:59:42Uh I'll I'll say I have 15 years working at the NSA experience like it is comparable or better um in Microsoft and how we protect our security. Uh I think at but at the end of the day you know you have to balance risk you know what are you trying to move fast on what are you know what can be fundamental research and what is the core stuff that you need to protect absolutely to protect the future of the technology investment and then and then farm it out in those specific ways.
▶ 3:00:11That's how uh I think the country agencies from agencies perspective from company's perspective that's how you can move the technology forward explore new ideas while also reap the benefits of getting first to market. So you just said you have to decide which part of quantum you want to work on f first as if to say that you kind of let down your guard a little bit. No, like you you have to make a determination at the beginning of I need the best ideas because these are fundamental science topics.
▶ 3:00:39Like it's best for universities to work on these ideas because I don't know the answer may not pan out. They're extremely high risk. Whereas I have a very good idea of what I want to build. I know uh engineering wise what needs to happen. Those are the things I would protect and set that setting that balance right is critically important to us being first to market. So this is probably a rhetoric a rhetorical question. Is there a quantum method to have a quantum firewall to keep quantum information from being released?
▶ 3:01:10Uh not if I haven't confused you, I can keep talking. Not that I know it comes down to human beings making risk assessments about uh uh you know how do we balance the risk of going as fast as possible with protecting the things that we think are most important. Okay, Dr. Chow, I'm coming to you now. You talked about having 60 universities I think that y'all were engaged with. Uh we have a lot of foreign nationals over here.
▶ 3:01:37How do we protect the loss of intellectual property in that instance going overseas? What? Do you all have a firewall? Do y'all have How do you do it? Yeah, thanks for the question. Um, as uh you noted, we work with over 60 universities. For us, that's incredibly important because there is expertise in academia that we want to partner with. Absolutely. Um, look, Google takes our IP extremely seriously. We have business reasons to do so and also national security.
▶ 3:02:05As a company, Google has enormous number of security uh procedures both in terms of physical and uh digital security. Quantum is considered a special crown jewel on top of what the company already does globally. Um we take that extremely seriously. So as you mentioned in our work with universities, we actually have very special agreements where we have carefully thought about how IP is shared. We protect it incredibly uh incredibly carefully and we work very closely with law enforcement as well.
▶ 3:02:33If you had to guess, uh, you're talking about 60 universities. Of those 60 universities have whatever the how many students would you guess that is? Is that, you know, 600 students, 6,000 students that we work with? Uh, we work with I would say roughly a handful of students at each of these universities. So, let's say 60 times five would be or 30 300 or 200. Okay.
▶ 3:02:56So of those 200, are you able to vet them so that you know if they came from some of the countries that are actually into stealing intellectual Yeah, we work very closely with the faculty at these universities and with the universities themselves to ensure that um we are doing the very best that we can. Um Mr. Shadam, would you want to weigh in on that?
▶ 3:03:17Do you do you all have a firewall for losing intellectual So, Congressman, of course, we take that extremely seriously. That's my responsibility as a board member and founder of the company. We have a very experienced chief information security officer. We have facial recognition on our labs. We uh do red team exercises on our uh computer security. We do everything in our power.
▶ 3:03:42But again, I I will emphasize that we are as serious and as invested as we possibly can be in doing that ourselves. This is one of the areas where uh there is a great opportunity for uh the NQIA for government uh to help smaller organizations like ours uh to actually secure this information and we work with various uh government agencies to uh get advice basically on how we protect uh our information. All right.
▶ 3:04:12Well, I'm over my time. I appreciate that. I thank you all for your responses, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. And now the gentleoman from Ohio, Miss Sykes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to the ranking member for hosting and holding this committee today. And a special thank you to our witnesses. You've been hanging in there for almost three hours, and you're still very vivacious and brighteyed and uh excited about your work. So, thank you so much.
▶ 3:04:34Uh obviously quantum technology has the power to fundamentally revolutionize revolutionize health care construction, national security, finance and more and leading to better lives across this country, including in my district in Ohio's 13th. In 2021, the IBM Quantum System 1 was installed at the Cleveland Clinic. It's just outside my district, but uh is certainly still important to Northeast Ohio. Uh this is the first quantum computer in the world, uniquely dedicated to healthcare research.
▶ 3:05:02With this system, researchers at the clinic will be able to accelerate biomedical discoveries that will improve and hopefully save lives, save lives. But we cannot take full advantage of quantum technologies if we don't have a secure infrastructure to support our innovation and keeping it secure here in the United States. We know that many quantum technologies require critical minerals in some essential components that are only made by specific c companies in other countries.
▶ 3:05:28And it is clear that to support this uh we need a support um we need a robust supply chain. Last Congress I was proud to introduce the support for quantum supply chains act. Uh this was a bipartisan bill that would strengthen our domestic supply chains and advance American competitiveness to ensure our country establishes itself as the leader in these technologies. I was pleased when the bill was included in the National Quantum Initiative Reauthorization Act last year and when our committee passed it unanimously.
▶ 3:05:58Unfortunately, the bill failed to make it to the House floor and didn't receive consideration in the Senate and until Congress is able to pass a bipartisan comprehensive reauthorization of the National Quantum Initiative. A federal the federal government needs to do more to respond to fluctuating and fragile supply chains. Uh Dr. Mergebacher, what more should the federal government be doing to understand and mitigate our supply chain vulnerabilities related to quantum technologies?
▶ 3:06:24Thank you for that question and um I'm actually putting on my glasses because I had made some notes about supply chain um because there's a lot that can be done. Supply chains are diverse. We've talked about that already. There are many different supply chains. So we need to understand those and have a sense of where there are weaknesses, where there are concentrations and therefore lack of resilience.
▶ 3:06:47Um there's actually some published reports out of the Netherlands that have looked at publicly available information um Europe versus the rest of the world from their own perspective and I've had some back and forth with the Europeans to understand what the US view is and compare it with those. We need to be working closely with others. These supply chains are global. we're not going to be able to have them 100% within the US.
▶ 3:07:10And so I think there's a lot of opportunity to look at where the fragile parts of the supply chains are and address those first. Um we did some surveys and asked for instance, how long does it take for you to get parts when you order them and it can be six months, nine months or even a year and that situation isn't getting better. So we need to understand why is that? It's too custom. There's too few suppliers etc. I think there's some research and study that needs to be done. Well, thank you all. after three hours.
▶ 3:07:37I'm glad that this was still a new fresh question for you uh and you hadn't already addressed it and I'm I'm interested in including especially uh how the tariffs conversation will impact the supply chains and some of the things that you just mentioned with getting very unique parts from all over the world. Yeah, I just did uh it's still I think open a survey of of the members asking them about the impact of tariffs or proposed tariffs and I'm getting answers like we're probably going to have to lay off five people.
▶ 3:08:03we're gonna not be as competitive with our comp competitors in Europe because we're gonna have to pay more for parts, etc. I mean, it's nothing that's really specific to quantum in a way. But I will make this point. Quantum as an industry, and this is important for the supply chain, too, is very fragile. It's early stage. And so, I'm sort of less worried about the big retail stores. No offense, they're going to take a big hit, I'm sure, but these companies are really at risk.
▶ 3:08:31And some of them are calling me and saying we could go out of business and that is not good for the country. Thank you. And I'm going to stick on this. I hadn't planned on it. When you say these companies that are risk are these health care, finance, national security, technological, all they're companies in the quantum supply chain. They're making specialty components because a lot of the parts that go into these systems are not really available for the purpose that they're being made. And so they're very custom parts.
▶ 3:08:59Some of them are frankly only available from China right now and we need to fix that. But cutting off access to those is going to really harm the the developers and the researchers. Some of these people sell their parts into university and government research labs and and they're being impacted. So that's having a big impact even on our research ecosystem. Thank you very much. I appreciate you uh letting me go on a little bit of a tangent. I am out of time, but I know you have just a couple more questions, but thank you for being here. I yield back, Mr. here.
▶ 3:09:29You bet. And now the uh gentleoman from California, Miss Freriedman. Thank you, Mr. Chair and ranking member. Um, as you've been discussing, quantum computing has the potential to drive discoveries in a whole wide range of industries from healthcare to clean energy to medicine to computers. And I'm really proud that California has been a leader in quantum innovation. We have some of the most advanced research institutions in the world. And people come from all over the world to be in this field.
▶ 3:09:59Uh inst the institute for quantum information and matter at Caltech for instance holds a worldleading research center in quantum information and computing and in LA the UCLA center for quantum science and engineering conducts research and develops new technology. Um I am wondering I I think Dr. Chow I'll ask you and Dr. Shadbolt, if you can speak to how Google and Sciquantum are working to advance quantum research in Yeah, thanks for the question.
▶ 3:10:28I mentioned in my opening statement as well, Google is very proud to fabricate all of our quantum chips in California. These occur at our uh specialized superconducting fabrication facility in Santa Barbara. We also develop all of our quantum computing hardware in California. For us, it's been um an incredible ecosystem in large part because of the amazing universities of some of which you mentioned um in your remarks uh as well as the amazing partnership with the national laboratories in California and we look forward to continued partnership.
▶ 3:10:57Uh Congresswoman, we um built a facility in California where we make the strongest electoptic material known to science on 300 millimeter wafers. We ship that to global foundaries to the east coast. So we're sole suppliers of that material uh to GF. Uh we make use of the Stanford linear accelerator. So that's a 30,000 square foot uh industrial facility for liqufying helium uh DOE infrastructure for which we're very grateful.
▶ 3:11:22And we're just now moving into a 100,000t facility where we're scaling up production of blades, BTO material, fiber attach uh etc. Um our headquarters is in California. I will say we came to Silicon Valley because it is an incredible place to make chips and develop this kind of technology. I am also tremendously excited that we are now extending that technology more broadly uh into the rest of the United States. I think that's a tremendously exciting situation.
▶ 3:11:51Yes, I'll just say quickly that Microsoft has one of our major quantum outposts at Santa Barbara. I've made many flights in LAX over my career. So, thank you for everything you're doing. Thanks. There'll be a people mover there very soon. Uh, Dr. Mesbacher, um, these companies are all engaged in the Quantum Economic Development Consortium's efforts. How are you leveraging California's unique strengths to drive national progress in quantum science?
▶ 3:12:17And what more could we do at the federal level to continue to make sure that California remains that hub of innovation and manufacturing? Sure, we have a ton of members that are based in California. I will add that another big player that's not here at the table is Amazon and they are partnering with Caltech. Um so that's another example of a company that sees the existing value of of working with um California researchers.
▶ 3:12:45Um of course there's the great university system and then federal labs like Lawrence Berkeley, Slack uh and others that are based in California. So they're all part of the federally funded quantum ecosystem. Frankly, we did meet in California in March. The consortium had a plenary meeting and uh we had a speaker from the state who came and talked about the sort of u beginnings of a quantum initiative, state-based quantum initiative in California.
▶ 3:13:14And I think that's fantastic because um that's going to sort of pull together and coordinate what's going on across the state and be able to leverage federal opportunities uh with those. So kudos to California. Sure. So these um these projects are giving really good jobs and helping kids who want to go into STEM have a place to land and they'll also drive our economy through the sales that we do to the rest of the world, right? We want to be at the front of this of this information arms race, if you will.
▶ 3:13:42But we can't lead if we're dismantling the infrastructure that supports so much of this research. the Trump administration's proposed slashing the NSF's budget by 55% and firing half of its workforce. I believe this is a very reckless move that's going to really hurt our ability as a nation to compete uh technologically with the rest of the world because they are certainly putting resources and their federal resources behind this kind of research.
▶ 3:14:07China's investing billions of dollars building national quantum labs and they're rapidly expanding their workforce. And I don't see how you can usher in a golden age of American innovation if you're gutting the agency and the sciences behind it. So I'm wondering if any of you want to talk about how important that federal partnership and that federal support is to our efforts to be at the the front of the world at developing these technologies.
▶ 3:14:32I'll speak on behalf of my 230 members that um the federal investment is critical for advancing the science and training the people and uh and then what we haven't sort of had a question or talked about at all is the sort of um tech transfer objectives the government does have through by dole and other legislation put on the research um you know performers that obligation really to transition the results of the research out to the private sector who can
▶ 3:15:02then make it into something useful and commercially important and um so I would underscore the need to maybe take a look at how the tech transfer uh is working in the universities and and government laboratories. Thank you. I'm out of time so unless the chair has other ideas I will yield back. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh I want to thank this has been a very fascinating and very valuable uh hearing and I want to thank all of you witness for your your uh testimony. uh and for all the members for their questions.
▶ 3:15:32Uh the record will remain open for 10 days for additional comments and written questions for members uh because not everybody was able to ask questions today unfortunately. So with that this hearing is adjourned.