▶ 0:09:07The EPA has ballooned in size over the last several years because the agency received $100 billion in supplemental funding outside of the annual appropriations process. That's more than 10 times their annual funding for the agency. And we are now starting to learn from your work, Administrator Zelden, that there are serious questions about where some of this funding has gone.
▶ 0:09:30specifically the greenhouse gas reduction fund recipients with potential conflicts of interest and other program integrity concerns that several news outlets as well as the Wall Street Journal have reported. The agency has also hired more than 1300 additional FTEEs with his supplemental funding. We told them not to do that, not to hire permanent employees with this supplemental one-time funding.
▶ 0:09:54I have concerns about the potential staffing cliff when this supplemental funding runs out, which means absorbing the supplemental FTEEs in our discretionary budget. Administrator Zeldon, I know you're well aware of this issue. Additionally, the EPA has doubled down on its regulatory footprint over the last few years. The EPA regulations from the Biden administrations have made it harder for industry to thrive and sometimes even survive.
▶ 0:10:18Even though those very industries have made great strides in reducing their environmental footprint, the administration is taking a hard look at the EPA's funding priorities and regulatory overreach, which I believe is much needed. I want clean air and clean water just as much as anyone does, but we must find an appropriate balance that also continues to promote economic growth and jobs here at home.
▶ 0:10:41Administrator Zeldon, I have a I have been following your actions to reduce regulatory burden uh burdens and rightsize the agency and implement common sense solutions to lower costs and increase American competitiveness. I hear often from various industries in Idaho, from farmers to manufacturers to chemical producers that they are looking for regulatory certainty.
▶ 0:11:04I hope that this hearing today will assure my constituents and industries in Idaho and across the country that the EPA has plans uh to had has plans to provide this certainty, whether it's rewriting rules or processing chemical or pesticide applications within the statutory deadlines. This hearing will also give us an opportunity to hear about how the skinny budget comports with the administration's goals for the agency, including returning EPA to its statutory functions.
▶ 0:11:31The request provides 4.2 2 billion for the EPA, which is 5 billion below the FY25 continuing resolution. It proposes deep cuts to state and tribal assistance grants, which will likely which we likely cannot agree to in this bill, but I look forward to hearing from uh you as part of the initial steps in this budget I'm ready to have the necessary and tough deliberations about how best to limit federal spending resources uh in order to ensure our natural resources, our lands and
▶ 0:12:01waters in Idaho and across the country are protected and preserved while still promoting economic development and job creation. Thank you for being here today uh administrator uh and we look forward to this discussion and I'd like to yield to my ranking member, Miss Petri. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you Administrator Zelden for being here today. Welcome back to the house. So, the mission of the EPA is to protect human health and the environment, not to serve industry.
▶ 0:12:29But so far, under your leadership, the agency has undertaken a series of actions that weaken environmental protection and harm public health to the benefit of polluters. In the first 100 days of this administration, you have worked to systematically dismantle the EPA implement project 2025 going along with the questionable activities of Doge, all to the detriment of the American public.
▶ 0:12:52Under your direction, the EPA has illegally frozen funding for the greenhouse gas reduction fund to lower energy costs and terminated grants to ensure that all people are equally protected from environmental and health hazards. You are pursuing a massive reorganization that would eliminate EPA science research arm and shuffle highly specialized scientists off to process chemical reviews for industry.
▶ 0:13:18The work done by the office of research and development provides the foundation for credible decisionmaking to safeguard human health and ecosystems from environmental pollutants. It is critical to informing agency decisions on things like environmental and health risks of PAS. Destroying this office will cause irreparable harm that may take decades to reverse and reduce America's standing as a world leader in environmental health research.
▶ 0:13:46I am sorry to say that seems to be the goal. Sorry, I am sorry to say that seems to be the goal of this administration to hobble environmental This is certainly evident by the fiscal year 2026 budget which proposes to cut the EPA by almost 55%. Under this budget, states would suffer catastrophic cuts.
▶ 0:14:11The budget proposes to all but eliminate categorical grants which states use to run their environmental programs. The Environmental Council of the States, which is a nonpartisan association of state environmental agency leaders, sent you a letter that stated that these cuts will devastate economic development, critical infrastructure, and environmental protections across the nation.
▶ 0:14:34Destroying the EPA and eliminating funding for states would create the perfect storm, leaving our country without any environmental protection and giving a free pass to Finally, the budget characterizes EPA's climate change work as unnecessary and radical. Climate change is the greatest environmental threat facing our planet with profound consequences for public health and the well-being of future generations.
▶ 0:15:01Ignoring and denying its existence does not make the problem go away. In three years, the US has experienced 73 weather and climate related disasters, each causing over a billion dollar in damages. This is an average cost of $157 billion a year. You've seen firsthand what an existential threat climate change is to our future.
▶ 0:15:25During your tenure, the EPA conducted a hazardous waste material removal effort following the Los Angeles County wildfires. In the fifth national climate assessment, experts concluded that fires in California and the rest of the Southwest have become larger and more severe and that humancaused warming is playing a significant part in those trends. And you agreed in your confirmation hearing that climate change is an urgent issue that must be addressed.
▶ 0:15:53But your actions administrator as an administrator suggests otherwise. And instead of construction leadership, constructive leadership and action, the budget proposes to eliminate the office tasked with much of EPA's climate work. These actions are harmoning the health of our children and our grandchildren and jeopardizing the environment we will leave them.
▶ 0:16:15Your leadership decisions are endangering the health of millions of Americans, jeopardizing the quality of our air and water, and threatening to wreck havoc on our economy. I hope you will reverse your course and I yield back. Thank you. Now I'd like to yield to the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Cole. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I want to tell you what a pleasure it is to see you back here and have you in this capacity. You're somebody we know. You're somebody we trust.
▶ 0:16:42You're somebody we got to work with all of us and whose integrity has always been above question. So, it's a very good choice by the president and I'm very very pleased and proud that you decided to accept it and serve in this capacity. U sort of speaking off the cuff and then I'll get to my prepared remarks. I find myself sort of agreeing with both my chairman and my ranking member simultaneously in different ways.
▶ 0:17:04Uh, look, I agree very much uh with what Chairman Simpson had to say in terms of the corrective um, you know, to the overreach and uh, and honestly bloated budget that this uh, the EPA was given. There's no question about that. Reorganizing the agency is giving, as my friend pointed out, an 11 billion agency hundred billion dollars. That's reorganizing the agency. uh and so uh I think uh it was used inappropriately under the last administration.
▶ 0:17:34I'm glad to see this administration honestly is returning it to its normal uh role. At the same time, there are important functions here that we do worry about uh and are concerned about. One of which is actually in my district. So as you may know, I'm very proud to represent Kerr Environmental Research Center in Ada Oklahoma. It's not a climate change research. is a water uh groundwater research agency for over 50 years.
▶ 0:18:00Kerr lab which leads the United States in research and advancements on groundwater aquifer recharge and agricultural soil health has established itself to be a premier EPA research center. Kerr's record of scientific achievements proves that the lab is well positioned to take on additional research opportunities to address growing environmental challenges and statutory mandates from Congress.
▶ 0:18:24Kur Lab also plays a pivotal role in the local rural community by providing jobs, partnering with local universities and tribal nations and serving as a strong economic driver. I hope we can welcome you back to the Sooner State at some point to see firsthand the important work Kur Lab is carrying out to advance the AY's mission.
▶ 0:18:45I was pleased to see the budget prioritizes funding for tribes to maintain improve water infrastructure throughout Indian country as certainly my friends on this committee and I have to compliment both my chairman and ranking member who have worked together so well on Native American issues whatever the other differences they have in this area. It's been a a place where we've cooperated, but both of them know uh you know how challenging water infrastructure is in remote locations and amongst tribal nations.
▶ 0:19:14And so we would ask you to look for that. But investments like these are critical to ensuring the federal government is upholding its trust responsibility to Native Americans to provide basic services and resources. Administrator Zelden, I look forward to working together to reduce red tape, provide regulatory certainty, and improve environmental health while also protecting American jobs and lowering energy costs.
▶ 0:19:39As EP ad EPA administrator, you play a key role in strengthening our national security by unleashing domestic energy production, and I look forward to discussing where resources can be applied for all these efforts in the full FY26 budget request. Let me end with this and I do not direct this at you. Uh this is a um concern I've expressed in multiple hearings and and directly to OM. We need a lot more detail than we've been given so far.
▶ 0:20:09That's not your responsibility, but I will tell you um it's uh we're running out of time to get a presidential budget that's detailed. The skinny budget gives us some view into what's going on, but we don't have what we need to make intelligent uh and balanced decisions. Uh I know this is a new administration. I am always very uh forgiving. I was with the Biden administration and we give you an impossible deadline to give us a full budget, which is February 15th. No new administration can do that.
▶ 0:20:38You don't even have your people in place by February 15th. But we do have a fiscal year timeline of September 30th to get and I've got to get all these bills out of here uh you know uh by honestly the August break and we have to be voting on some of them probably in June and July. Uh and that's a big task when we don't have the president's full budget. So I just say that to my friends in the administration sooner is better.
▶ 0:21:04Again these are discussions I've had uh with my friend the director at OM. So, it's not meant antagonistically. It's just if you want to avoid a CR, if you want the work done on time and you want it done well, we've got to get more information out of the administration than we've gotten so far. And I know there's a lot of internal debates and discussions, you've probably been on one side or other. Those are none of our business.
▶ 0:21:28You guys make collective decisions and then we take the information, add it to the other stuff, and try to come to a consensus. But we do need the information. And at the end of the day, appropriations is very different than what we're going through up here on the hill. And you know this, reconciliation is a partisan exercise. Doesn't matter if Democrats are doing it or Republicans are doing it. Appropriations in the end is bipartisan. We don't have the ability to pass it up with 51 votes in the United States Senate.
▶ 0:21:54So there's going to be Democratic participation there and eventually to come to a deal. There will be over here. So, the quicker we can get uh the information we need out of the administration, the quicker we can get you what you need, which is a budget that's been thought through and and worked through and arrived at cooperatively with the administration participating. But, uh again, let me end where I started. It is really good to have you at that agency. We are very proud of what you've done so far.
▶ 0:22:23Um, I'm particularly pleased with some of the uh, honestly measures you highlighted where I think we had abuse in the last administration and EPA was not being used as it should be used was being used in some cases to funnel money to favorite organizations in a very inappropriate way and I'm glad you called stopped it and and put attention on it. It's a great act of public service on your part. So that Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back. But again, thank you for being here. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 0:22:53Uh, with that, Administrator Zelden, you may proceed with your opening statement. Your official submitted testimony will be included in the record. Well, it's so great to be back at the Rayburn office building. First time in uh two and a half years since I left the house. Uh, and it's great to see all of you. Uh, Chairman Simpson, Chairman Cole, Ranking Member Pingri, members of the the subcommittee.
▶ 0:23:15Uh thank you for uh coming together here to discuss the president's fiscal year 2026 budget request for the United States Environmental Protection Agency. EPA has wasted no time advancing President Trump's directive to help deliver clean air, land, and water for all Americans while restoring common sense, accountability, and cooperative federalism to environmental policy.
▶ 0:23:38We're fulfilling our core mission of protecting human health and the environment while powering the great American comeback and removing unnecessary b barriers that have burdened American families and businesses for far too long. We hit the ground running immediately upon President Trump's inauguration, completing the largest wildfire cleanup in agency history in less than 30 days after the catastrophic Los Angeles wildfires.
▶ 0:24:04We are taking bold steps to combat PAS contamination and have advanced redevelopment at 21 super fund sites across 13 states, delisting all or parts of four sites from the national priorities list. We've also completed 25 state implementation plans, 16 of which were backlogged from the prior administration. With this renewed focus and commitment, the EPA is proudly working for the American people.
▶ 0:24:31We are revising the waters of the United States definition to align with the Supreme Court decision in Sacket and have issued immediate action items for Mexico to permanently and urgently end the Tijana River sewage crisis that has plagued Southern California for decades. Following my trip to St. Louis, we cut nearly 2 years from the cleanup timeline at the waist west lake super fund site which has been contaminated by nuclear waste from the Manhattan project.
▶ 0:25:01In fact, to mark the 100th day of the Trump presidency, EPA released a list of 100 environmental actions we took during those first 100 days, a pace that motivates us to keep up each and every day. Together, these actions reflect the administration's commitment to environmental steward stewardship, cooperative federalism, and delivering results that make a real difference in people's lives.
▶ 0:25:27In lock step with the president's agenda, EPA is also helping to unleash American energy, pursue permitting reform, make America the AI capital of the world, and bring back American auto jobs.
▶ 0:25:40We've eliminated waste and abuse in areas like the greenhouse gas reduction fund, reversed unlawful overreach like the so-called quote good neighbor rule, and begun reconsidering many overreaching rules including power plant and EV related regulation that threaten grid reliability, energy affordability, and consumer choice. These historic actions will reduce regulatory costs which act as invisible taxes on Americans.
▶ 0:26:09will make it more affordable to own a car, heat homes, operate a business, and bring manufacturing back to local communities. By reducing the EPA's budget by billions of dollars, the president's FY 2026 budget demands maximum efficiency from the EPA while we continue to fulfill all of our statutory obligations.
▶ 0:26:29Also included in the president's proposal is an additional $9 million above FY2025 enacted levels to equip EPA with funds to respond to drinking water disasters. There's also a $27 million increase in funding for tribes to address drinking water and wastewater infrastructure on their lands. As I've stated in the past at the Trump EPA, we will not view the status quo as a sacred cow that is untouchable.
▶ 0:26:56We will not consider the Biden regulations we inherited as being etched in stone and we absolutely refuse to waste even a penny of tax dollars. Under the president's leadership and with the support of Congress, we will continue to deliver real results with greater accountability and a stronger environmental return on investment per dollar spent. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Administrator. And again, thank you for uh for uh being here today.
▶ 0:27:26And I would say ditto to what uh Chairman Cole said earlier and we're proud to have you there and the job that you're doing. I'm going to turn first to uh Chairman Cole. I you're a busy man and have things to do. So, we'll let you get your questions out first. What could be better than being in this room, which was my favorite hearing room with my uh my old friend and mentor? Um I do as I mentioned in my opening statement obviously I've got a prochial interest in uh in what they do at Kerr Labs in Ada Oklahoma.
▶ 0:27:56Uh it's the lead groundwater research center and over 90% of rural communities across America actually depend on groundwater for their water supply. So research they do there is pretty pivotal. Can you uh take a moment to discuss uh how the research carried on at Kerr actually would inform some of the EPA's statutory functions and decisions that you have to make as well as uh assist rural communities around the country.
▶ 0:28:22Uh the work uh that is done at ADA lab chairman is very important and they have a strong and passionate fighter on their behalf and you chairman Cole. Uh there's no way that uh we'd be able to walk onto this side of the cap into uh any of these buildings to discuss EPA uh without you being present to fight for ADA lab. Uh the work that is done there is important. Uh the investment that's being made in ADA lab is critical for the future uh of the lab.
▶ 0:28:51Uh the office of water has uh great pride in the work that is done there and it's work that should be enhanced. Uh it's it's work that is used to help inform regulatory decisions to fulfill our statutory obligations. Uh and for anyone else uh here in Congress who may not be familiar with what's being done at at ADA Lab or anyone out in the public who might not live in Oklahoma uh you should take uh great great pride in knowing the the good work that is being done there that helps our office of water to be successful in what we do
▶ 0:29:21and the investment should increase. Well, thank you very much for that. And uh I also asked you a a broader question just about your approach. One one of the things actually I think EPA when it's at its best can do very well is actually forge relationships uh with state and local authorities, tribal nations, and work collaboratively.
▶ 0:29:42Uh I'd like to get just sort of your overall philosophy on how you'll build relationships because obviously the decisions you make are so critical you know at the state and federal local level as to what's possible. So you know how are you going to approach working with again all the these various entities out there that literally the decisions you make impact what they can do and and recommend the direction in which they should go. chairman.
▶ 0:30:11Uh the third pillar of powering the great American comeback uh our initiative at EPA uh beyond permitting reform is advancing cooperative federalism. Uh one of my first visits after being confirmed was to Indian country. Uh I've also uh just recently was in Oklahoma and had a had a great visit there. I look forward to coming back. Uh somehow as we were staffing up at EPA, we were loaded up with great talent. uh from Oklahoma.
▶ 0:30:42So the uh the the ranks of our team we came in uh include some of the the brightest uh that that you all have and we're grateful to all those uh people who have stepped up to to serve at EPA. Uh advancing cooperative federalism as it relates to the tribal community is about treating them as uh as another government.
▶ 0:31:04um to to treat them with uh respect, to consult with them when decisions are made that um that that impact them uh and to try to build a relationship. And uh we have had a lot of members of our team out uh present throughout the country meeting with different regions of tribal leadership uh when they gather to uh to consult and discuss the important topics of the day.
▶ 0:31:27Um we we want to make sure that they have a an open door at EPA uh and that includes at the regions where in region six uh our regional administrator is uh from uh the tribal community in Oklahoma uh or if they come to Washington DC maybe to meet with the president's nominee to head the office of international tribal affairs who's from the tribal community in Oklahoma or maybe they want to meet with the deputy in that office who's from the tribal community in Oklahoma.
▶ 0:31:56Uh so we we want to make sure that a strong message is sent that we want to work with everyone. Boy, I really liked what hearing. But uh again, I I just want to thank you for taking on this uh incredibly important task and I appreciate New York has obviously significant Native American presence of its own uh which a lot of Americans don't realize how strong those tribal communities are uh and how resilient they've been over many many years.
▶ 0:32:24So, it's not it's not a world you're unfamiliar with having been a member from New York. So, uh again, thank you very much. And with that, uh I'll yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, chairman. Uh I was kind of excited when I read what was going to be talked about when I heard about the Ada Labs and I how the hell did I not know about the Ada Labs? I mean, Ada County is where Boyisey and Boise State University are located. And I was thought Tom was taking an interest in Boisee all of a sudden. Only in football. Yeah. football.
▶ 0:32:55Shelley, uh, thank you very much. Um, and, uh, thank you for giving us some insights into the Oklahoma mafia that actually rules all that we do. It's good to get a little sense of that. Um, so yeah, I've got a couple questions for you and uh, thanks thanks for being here. Um, as I talked about in my opening statement, your budget proposes to eliminate categorical grants to states which go toward funding state environmental agencies.
▶ 0:33:20The justification provided for the cut is that quote EPA's categorical grant programs have become a crutch for the states at the expense of taxpayers, many of whom receive no benefit from these grants. And it also says states and local governments should be capable and powered to fund their own programs in order to comply with the law. In truth, states carry out more than 90% of the nation's federal environmental programs. So, I would say that taxpayers actually receive a tremendous benefit.
▶ 0:33:50In fact, states are doing this work because the EPA has delegated the authority to them because it would be too much for federal government to handle. Without federal financial support through these grants, it is reasonable to believe that states may need to return program implementation to the EPA. So, if your budget eliminates categorical grants, effectively forcing states to shter shoulder the full cost of critical environmental programs, how do you plan to handle the fallout when states return these responsibilities to the EPA?
▶ 0:34:19With a workforce already stretched thin, how will the agency manage the surge in permitting and enforcement without these partnerships? Uh, thank you, ranking member, uh, for your question. Uh there have been a lot of privacy applications that have been submitted uh to our agency, including one that I'll be signing off on this afternoon uh for for one state. And I I just signed off on West Virginia primacy.
▶ 0:34:45As I mentioned in my opening remarks, uh I've signed off on 25 state implementation plans and and inherited quite a backlog, but we're we're working through as quickly as we possibly can. We we want to be able to work with states uh to be able to hear uh their feedback, but at the moment the requests coming in as it relates to cooperative federalism have been coming in from all across the country. Uh we we want to be able to grant those primacy applications.
▶ 0:35:15Uh at at the moment, we don't have any requests to give back uh primacy. Um and we're not anticipating them at at this particular moment. And as we go through the budget process, maybe you'll hear from someone from your your home state talking about how an impact of a particular proposal might uh change the course of decisions for them to make in the future. Um but right now the momentum is for states to uh grab more privacy, not less.
▶ 0:35:45Yeah. And I understand this is about a future budgeting change, but I'm just going to put down a little marker there. I I I see a deeply troubling shift to the states in this federal budget that we're looking at. Having sat through last night's um SNAP cut hearing and talking about Medicaid cuts, much of which will be returned to the states. Um I'm I know that's a bigger question than just you and your agency, but I think for all of us as appropriators, um we're going to see a big shift of cost back to the states. Um I want to talk to you about one other thing right now.
▶ 0:36:15Um and and thank you. I know you've uh shown interest in the concerns related to PAS and that's been uh something that you dealt with back in your home state um when you were a member of Congress and I just want to ask some questions about that. Um PAS continues to be a serious problems for Americans impacting our water, our land and our health. In my home state of Maine, we've been leading the way on addressing PAS contamination and hope to continue to work with the EPA to ensure all Americans are protected from PAS pollution.
▶ 0:36:44The most recent PAS drinking water standard will go far to protect Americans from PAS contamination. But there still are challenges to these standards in court. And just yesterday, the agency announced steps to weaken the rule by rescending the regulation on four types of PAS. Developing an exemption framework and compliance. The science is sound and there's no question that PAS is harmful to human health. So why is the EPA not fully committed to defending all PAS rules?
▶ 0:37:12Why would the agency consider an exemption to harmful pollutants in our drinking water? And how will the integrity and innovation of research for PAS be upheld in an agency that is reducing its scientific capacity? Thank you. Uh ranking member, when I served in the house, was a member of the PAS task force and represented the district with a lot of PAS issues, voted for the PAS action act.
▶ 0:37:34uh the and the agency since uh you over the course of multiple administrations now have been uh been working on this important issue uh two things as it relates to yesterday's yesterday morning's announcement um because it it was involving six chemicals as it relates to PFOS and PFOA the drinking water standard that was set at four parts per trillion um is staying there is litigation as you And as
▶ 0:38:04a consequence of that litigation, we're reminded how important it is when going through a regulatory process that the the agency and agencies must follow the law for how to make a regulation. Uh there was a procedural error uh with regards to how the agency had set uh the drinking water standard as it relates to four of the chemicals which you referenced.
▶ 0:38:27uh they combined the preliminary regulatory determination with the proposed rule uh which means that the EPA skipped a traditional step in the rulemaking pro process by issuing the proposed drinking water standard at the same time that it proposed the formal decision to regulate PAS uh rather than doing those steps separately. Um, now here's the thing.
▶ 0:38:49For somebody like you who would want to see um the agency go after these four chemicals as a result of this process, the the drinking water standard might be lower. The the the number which is four parts per trillion may end up being two at the end of this process.
▶ 0:39:08Uh so the the public reporting um for for some in the media that would see our announcement from yesterday morning and say they're they're rolling back the standards. They're weakening the limit. Uh hopefully those people uh are also um willing to write uh a follow-up to their story just to put out accurate information. Now you talked about um you referenced the exemption and thank you for referencing it.
▶ 0:39:37the way uh that process had started when I was going through the confirmation process and I was meeting with members of Congress. Um there was concern being expressed to me about passive receivers where uh local drinking water systems would have to hit a particular date. The cost to be able to bring their drinking water system into compliance was going to get passed off to their to their customers. So individuals, Americans would have to pay to clean up their own water.
▶ 0:40:04uh and that was something members of Congress were saying that they want the agency to look at and address. And the second thing uh is that they were speaking up on behalf of local drinking water systems that are concerned about their ability to be able to meet the compliance deadline. We can help with technical assistance and also I will say that the agency is receiving a lot of people who are reaching out to us with all sorts of new technologies to clean up uh this PAS contamination.
▶ 0:40:30So hopefully as we're going through, you know, the coming months and years as these uh local drinking water systems are coming into compliance that the costs go down and the cost maybe from November, December of 24 uh are not as high as uh when they go back and try to develop a plan and uh in in June of Um well I certainly hope that we are developing new methods to clean up pest because there are uh so many of these harmful
▶ 0:41:00chemicals and they're so everpresent in our environment. So I'll I'll I'll certainly stay in touch about that and let me just ask one last um hopefully little question. Um since this is a priority for the agency, I want to ask about three PAS grants that were awarded and worked on in Maine. We just heard last evening that two of them have been terminated and I'd love to get an update on the third one as well.
▶ 0:41:23The terminated grants were awarded to the University of Virginia with a subawward to Maine, the Central Arustic soil and water conservation district and the other was awarded to the University of Maine and the third grant was awarded to the Pasimquati tribe. All were working on PAS and their impacts to human health and our food supplies important work and they're all a top priority. Um, since these grants are consistent with the EPA's priorities, do you know why they were terminated and what the status is of the Pasimquati tribe grant? Thank you. Uh, ranking member.
▶ 0:41:53I'm familiar with uh these grants. It's a an important program. Uh, it's something that's congressionally uh appropriated. The agencies going through a reorg. So, the way that uh the program and these grants are going to get administered are going to be different going going forward. Uh, but these are important grants. So, look forward to working with you uh and your team as uh we're able to continue that good work going forward.
▶ 0:42:18And I I know that you've and I appreciate the fact that you uh your office reached out before today's hearing um as opposed to asking about a grant for the first time at a hearing where I might not have the details on me. Um but as I was talking to the team about the request that you sent in, uh the the feedback that I got is that it was an important program.
▶ 0:42:39uh and as we're able to uh implement the uh the reorg the office inside of the agency that's going to be administering it is going to be different um and we're looking forward to being able to move forward from there. Okay. Well, we will stay in close touch about that and uh and certainly on all of these issues related to PAS. I know it's not something we're all um tackling, but um we certainly want to make sure we don't lose any ground here on the enforcement and the research. So, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 0:43:10Uh kind of following up on what uh Miss Pingry asked in from a different perspective. As I mentioned in my opening statement, the president's skinny budget request proposes deep cuts in the EPA that might might not be able to be fully replicated. I'm not opposed to significantly reducing the size of the EPA. My House bill last year cut the EPA by nearly 20%. Uh the first budget requested by President Trump in his first term was a 30% reduction of the EPA.
▶ 0:43:37a 54% cut may be uh bridge too far to be able to achieve, but we'll see. I just wanted to start off with a question about this. If Congress chooses to provide discretionary appropriations for the agency that are at levels above the president's budget request, how would you handle that? In other words, would you spend the amounts provided in the enacted bill and for the specific programs uh that Congress identifies in the bill? Yes, we'll we will absolutely follow the law.
▶ 0:44:06Uh it's also my commitment to Congress uh that we uh have a zero tolerance policy towards wasting any tax dollars. Uh so we also want to make sure that every dollar that's appropriated by Congress is spent efficiently. We don't want to spend money just to spend it. Uh we want to make sure that if I'm coming back before this committee that I'm able to explain how the money is is getting spent. Um we're we're not going to just spend it to spend it, but we'll follow the law. Appreciate it. Thank you.
▶ 0:44:36Now I want to ask you about the rural drinking water technical assistance program. I have supported this program for many years because it works for Idahoans and I think across especially rural America. EPA funding goes directly to rural water technical assistance providers that are located across the country to help rural water systems comply with federal statutes to ensure safe and clean uh water and to evaluate system needs and to access funding opportunities.
▶ 0:45:01And because these uh TAS uh providers are state-based at rural system operators is is talking to someone who is from their state and is well suited to help solve the unique challenges of that town or service area. Prior budget requests from both Democratic and Republican administrations have eliminated funding for this program. I think that's because it's an easy money saver in the budget request and Congress always restores funding for it because it has strong bipartisan support.
▶ 0:45:29I hope that when we see the full budget request, we'll be seeing funding for this program. Over the years, I've worked to address some of the issues in this program, like pushing back against efforts to shift the model of the program to a nationwide call center in which someone based in New York uh could be assigned to a rural Idaho town uh and opposing proposals to shift away from awarding this funding on an annual basis.
▶ 0:45:52Can you commit to the following congressional direction as it relates to this program, including selecting awardees that are the most qualified and experienced in providing training and technical assistance to small public water systems and awarding funding on an uh annual basis? Yes, I can commit to that. Chairman is the full year in the full year uh continuing resolution which provided government funding for the remainder of the fiscal year 2025.
▶ 0:46:17Uh Congress included an additional 17 million for the EPA to modernize its IT systems uh that were used to process chemical risk assessments under the TUSCa program. Can you give us an example of what's what is the outdated system and what it what it means uh that the aging is that the agency is increasing their IT chairman the system uh has been unstable the system will crash it's outdated and uh the investment will be used
▶ 0:46:47to uh help obviously address those concerns as it relates to stability but also to make sure that the agency is operating more Um, we inherited a lot of different backlogs. I mentioned earlier the uh the state implementation plans. We've we inherited a missed deadline as it relates to uh bofuels.
▶ 0:47:09We inherited a big backlog on uh the pesticide program, new chemicals office, and we want to work through all of that. Um, and the reorg is going to help us get through these backlogs and this funding appropriation uh that you all uh included um is going to help in dealing with our IT concerns. Thank you.
▶ 0:47:37I miss Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I'm going to make a couple of general comments. First, thank you so much for bringing up rural water. It might sound odd coming for me, but being in the Dakotas, Montana, other places like that, I know how important it is and how important it is to uh the rural communities in Minnesota and they're really struggling uh to, you know, to have, you know, people even uh available to do some
▶ 0:48:07of the technical work on that. So, thank you for bringing that up. A comment on on uh PIFA. So, um I we will one of the reasons why I got myself on the um defense appropriation subcommittee was to work on beef because the department as you know of the DoD has a lot of cleanup to do. I'd just like to make a a comment.
▶ 0:48:32um the state of Minnesota where 3M's company's headquarters in 3M has been the only company to date that has stood up and put anything towards uh cleanup whether it in communities or to or to do things. And I think that the EPA has a role to play with some other uh companies that have um they they testified in uh back a couple years ago in front of uh government oversight to do their fair share of cleanup uh on that too.
▶ 0:49:02So I look forward to staying tuned as to exactly what's going to happen with water quality regulations. I do have I'm at this point I'm going to give you a little bit of the benefit of the doubt, but I'm going to uh stay on top of that. I'm going to talk about something that everybody's avoided talking about right now. Environmental justice grants.
▶ 0:49:22Um you oversee uh legal the legal cancellation more than 400 environmental justice grants uh that were uh brought forward by um um um Musk uh and Doge. So most of those grantees already had contracts that the government had signed and then the EPA walked away from them. But I'm going to give two examples of where I really think there was a failure.
▶ 0:49:49And I um as as the chairman and the ranking member know, we work on on tribal issues together. I'm glad Oklahoma's taken care of. I'm about to talk about what's happening to the Sue Nations and the Anosabi in Minnesota when it comes to DEI.
▶ 0:50:08Now, um the Leech Band, uh the Leech Lake Band of Ajuway was awarded a grant to rebuild a tribal resiliency hub, which would allow them to relocate their current resource management facility from where it sits on an EPA super fund site. The facility was going to serve as a center for emergency response coordination and staging as a temporary shelter during extreme weather, which we have a lot of.
▶ 0:50:34Leech Lake is far from the only tribe that I'm aware of, and I'm sure there's other tribes when you go back looking at it that have been affected by the cancellation of environmental justice grants. Thousands of grants to tribal nations, they've just been cut off. Tribes were told to apply to the EPA's community uh change grant program to meet some of their unfulfilled trust and treaty obligations. Now, the EPA, they're caught in this quagmire, is pulling many of those back.
▶ 0:51:02Both Health and Human Service Secretary um uh SE Secretary Kennedy and Interior Secretary Bergam have issued statements affirming that funding for community uh tribal programs will not be considered DEI. Can you um maybe tell us what you're going to be doing to correct this situation so that these grants and some cases which were signed off on will go back to the tribes? Another one that I just wanted to bring up and we didn't have a chance to talk before. I'm not playing gotcha.
▶ 0:51:32As as you heard me say, come back and talk to the committee. Talk to me about this. Um, I want to highlight a second example of a cancellation grant in Minnesota. The University of Minnesota was awarded to serve our region in the Great Lakes environmental justice technical assistance. The purpose of these and other centers were to identify and assist communities that could benefit uh to build capacity to access funds to implement programs.
▶ 0:52:00Um there they were helping communities to obtain funding because many of these rural communities and tribes don't have professional grant writers at their disposal. So they work with universities um to figure out how to become more resilient uh and and healthier communities for where they're going through.
▶ 0:52:21So, um I'm concerned about, you know, the improvement to human health in this particular environment and there's uh grant that I just mentioned with the Great Lakes Environmental Justice Technical Grant Assistance Center just because the word environmental justice is in something I hope and I just came from the Department of Defense where they're going through and they're looking at things very very carefully at least that's what they told me to make sure that somebody isn't caught in the quagmire of a label that it was given.
▶ 0:52:52Can we have your commitment to do that with with the tribal nations and and for those um uh centers that are assisting rural uh communities in particular communities like tribal communities that don't have uh the expertise on board nor can they afford it for grant writers? Uh thank you Congresswoman for your for your question with reg uh I'll talk about both of those grants individually.
▶ 0:53:17Uh f first point uh to help make the point is that the the a definition of environmental justice that there are communities that have been left behind that need help is a way to describe an effort that might be able to get just about everyone in America to say yes, I agree with that. The problem that we inherited coming in is that in the name of environmental justice, tens of billions of dollars have gone out the door.
▶ 0:53:48And we believe like for example, I canceled a $50 million grant to a group called climate justice alliance. They say climate justice wants to pal. Mr. Administrator, I appreciate what you're about to say. I want I want my question was on tribal nations. So, but you Okay. So, University of Minnesota grant, the grant isn't to remediate environmental issue. This administration believes that we can spend a dollar to remediate environmental issues should go towards spending it.
▶ 0:54:13The University of Minnesota grant gives money to a group to spend money to get an advocacy group to come ask for money from the federal government instead of I have limited time. Let me let us focus Let us focus on the tribes. No, that's a problem. You you So, okay. And then the second you canled you canled a a grant to the Leech Lake Band of Aju. That okay.
▶ 0:54:36So that that grant which is different than the University of Minnesota example is that's why I want to just let's just focus on tribal grants where I think there's common ground. Yes. And that's something that we're going to be able to to work together on. Okay. Uh there was uh aspects of uh that grant uh that was built into a prior infrastructure EPA that does not exist anymore. It includes uh justice 40 application and other uh EJ components that do not exist at EPA.
▶ 0:55:04Um I would look forward to an opportunity for uh for us to be able to work together, for our offices to work together on that grant specifically uh to be able to get it built into uh the infrastructure of EPA. We are going to continue to spend the money appropriated by Congress. Uh we are in the middle of the fiscal year having this conversation. I think there's time for us to work through that grant together.
▶ 0:55:25I I look forward to that because they had a signed contract and I know that sometimes when Doge went through, they went through at the speed of lightning and you didn't have a chance uh to react then and um I hear you saying that you want the chance to make things right when they can be, especially for the tribal communities in Oklahoma and all across this nation. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, uh Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here.
▶ 0:55:54Uh I tell you what, after uh years and years of talking about WUS and coming from a rural uh community where there's a lot of farmers, most of whom aren't attorneys, and I know you were the youngest attorney in New York at the age of 23, so you know, you're the perfect guy to start defining WUS in a way that is uh actually applicable based on the Sacket ruling. Would you describe a little bit of what you're changing on on waters of the US to help our farmers throughout the country?
▶ 0:56:22It is very easy for us now to revise the definition to follow the simple prescriptive definition that the Supreme Court laid out in Sacket. All we're looking to do is to be in line with the Supreme Court decision. Our goal is that the map of the United States has all 50 states following one definition. Right now, they don't follow just one definition.
▶ 0:56:47Our goal is that any of your farmers, ranchers, land owners are able to look at a water on their property and they are able to determine on their own whether or not that is a water of the United States that's going to be regulated by the federal government. They should not have to go out and hire some lawyer or some consultant uh to be able to tell them whether or not that waterway is a water of the US.
▶ 0:57:12We want to do it that is durable where no matter what would happen in a presidential election in the future in November of 28 or November of 23 of 32 of 2032 that the definition doesn't have to change again. We believe that it's very easy to have a simple straightforward prescriptive definition of water United States.
▶ 0:57:31And I think it's also important to note that just because a water doesn't uh fall under a definition of water of the United States doesn't mean that it it's not going to be regulated by the state government, local government. Uh this has to do with the water of the United States regulated by the federal government. Standardization and predictability is all that anybody's asking for. So thanks for doing that.
▶ 0:57:53I want to talk about your 100 environmental actions and brag on you a little bit about things that the EPA has actually done that weren't done for many years prior to that. Number one, immediate action items for Mexico to permanently end the Tijana River uh sewage crisis which we'll address later, but nobody had done any anything on that for years. Advance the Navajo nation's first in the country water permitting and in 30 days you essentially cleaned up Los Angeles from the wildfire disaster.
▶ 0:58:23The definition of wildfire, if you leave fuel on the ground the way that California has, you're going to have wildfires, especially when you have high winds. And you guys cleaned it up in 30 days. You oversaw the Navy's time critical removal of 20,000 cubic yards of contaminated soil in Newport, Rhode Island at Netsi Super Fund Site, Naval Education Training Center. You cut two years from the cleanup timeline at Westlake Landfill, a super fun site in St. Louis, Missouri.
▶ 0:58:52in a 100 days. Oversaw Navy cleanup operations at Red Hill Fuel Facility in Hawaii, which has been a big deal for years, including removal all sludge and pressure washing at two 12 million gallon tanks. You guys have actually been doing the job that is set forth as the EPA is supposed to be doing. So instead of concentrating on things like cutting staff and cutting money and cutting grants, you're actually doing the job. Would you describe exactly what's going on in Tijana River and how long that's been going on?
▶ 0:59:22It's been going on for decades and uh the people of California are they're out of patients and uh so we we came in I I had a visit to San Diego a few weeks ago. Uh part of it actually the first meeting when I came in uh was at the consulate with the Mexican environmental secretary, the console general, the Mexican commissioner, the IBWC. There was a Mexican delegation, a US delegation. The conversation was good.
▶ 0:59:50Uh there have been a lot of uh aspects of this previously agreed upon. However, it's very important that on the Mexican side that they factor in the population growth in Tijuana because uh you need to make sure that the solution is not just a solution for 2025, it's a solution for 2035.
▶ 1:00:14You don't want to spend the next 10 years getting to that answer today and then it's oh well we didn't factor in the population growth. The other thing is uh that it's not a 100% solution as is with what Mexico has agreed upon. It's a lot. Mexican has agreed on a lot of projects. They just finished the San Antonio dewenos treatment plant. That's significant.
▶ 1:00:38uh when we met, we talked about diverting 10 million gallons per day uh from the Tijuana River to the Tijuana Dam. During the the conversation, we moved the timeline up from 2027 to 2026 to be completed. So, part of this is not only getting them on the same page with the 100% solution, but also pressure testing every single timeline to get everything done as quickly as we can.
▶ 1:01:01Uh we submitted last week to Mexico what the United States believes to be the 100% solution for the future and we're looking forward to working with Mexico in the coming days and weeks. We do do not don't want this to draw out over months and years. We want to know whether or not they agree to the 100% solution. If they don't, is there anything that they propose that would still be a 100% solution? And then we get to yes and everyone's happy.
▶ 1:01:27if they're only willing to agree to an an 80% solution, well, we're not there yet. And we're going to have to use, you know, uh other uh tactics uh to uh get a 100% solution done because the the Americans on our side of the border, they're fed up and they don't want a 90% solution. They want 100% solution. And that affects a lot of folks in Southern California. And I might add that that is where my friend Mr. Zinci uh did his SEAL training. So, this affects our our pre-minent warriors in the Navy.
▶ 1:01:57and the health risks. Now, they are, you know, the the command does do what they can to stay away from that, but it affects everybody up that coastline and and I don't know if he's been affected by it. You he would probably say he has been, but I'm I'm glad you're taking those actions. Example, I was going to let him say that, but thank you. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Administrator. Thank you so much for for being here. I want to talk about air pollution.
▶ 1:02:25So, my community in California, Sanwakin Valley, is the asthma capital of the world. My brother and I both grew up with childhood asthma, and I know what it's like to be more worried about packing my inhaler for school than than my homework. I now have my two daughters, Lillian and Karina, and I'm scared that they're going to be exposed to the same toxic air that I had growing up. So, so first off, administrator, yes or no, do you agree that toxic air quality is a problem and making our families sicker?
▶ 1:02:56Yes. Great. We are 100% aligned. And in fact, I I actually know that we agree on this uh because you voted for multiple bills in the House that would help lower emissions, including one that started a fantastic program, the diesel emissions reduction grant program, uh HR 1768, uh in in 2019. I love this program. It's helped some of my local farmers buy new low emissions tractors. Uh but here's where I'm stuck.
▶ 1:03:24Something has clearly changed in the last couple of years because your budget completely eliminates this program. It's been incredibly successful. It's prevented over 2,300 premature deaths. It's created $19 billion in monetized health benefits. and it has an ROI by outside observers of $30 for every single $1 that we spend. To me, it seems like a no-brainer.
▶ 1:03:51So, administrator, can you help me understand what changed between your vote in 2018 and why you're eliminating this program right now? Well, first off, when uh I was serving as one of 435 members of of the House, uh I I got my card, never gave it to anyone else as a as a proxy, and I would uh vote at that time, uh being the representative for the first congressional district of New York.
▶ 1:04:16Um right now with the EPA, uh we go through a collaborative process internally, uh we get external feedback and we develop a a skinny budget. Um the the concerns that have been expressed as it relates to the DRA program uh as outlined in the skinny budget relate to a distortion uh as far in the market selecting certain technologies and picking winners and losers.
▶ 1:04:41Uh that is the uh the concern that is uh expressed most often with DRA and that's part of how we got to where we are today. I think the winners of the deer program are our kids who are breathing better air quality. Uh there are two grants that uh came in the Sanwaqin Valley under this program uh recently.
▶ 1:05:02$4.5 million to replace 18 on-road trucks with zero emissions trucks and another $4.5 million to replace 100 uh agricultural off-road diesel tractors uh with mobile off-road agricultural tractors with lower emissions. I'm really struggling that how actually allowing more air pollution and getting our kids more sick, more asthma, more emergency room visits, how can that possibly save us money?
▶ 1:05:29Those two specific grants um I I don't have the details here uh in front of me. Um are are you saying that the grants were cancelled? No, I'm saying that's the type of thing that this program funds. How does this sort of thing being eliminated save us money? Sure. The the concern that's been expressed as it relates to to the deer program uh is what I stated in my last answer.
▶ 1:05:54Uh the the other thing is when you you have to craft a budget that uh is billion. Uh this is how we crafted a budget that's $4.1 billion. Um we But doesn't that feel like putting the cart before the horse? Shouldn't we be thinking about ROI and making sure that our dollars are going to programs that work? Shouldn't that be our first goal?
▶ 1:06:19If Congress wants this to be a statutory obligation of EPA, it should make it a statutory obligation of EPA. Right now, it's not Can you understand? Can you can you help me explain why you don't want this program to exist now and why you're eliminating it in your budget? You're telling me that it costs too much money. I'm telling you this program has worked. It succeeded. It saves $30 for every $1 spent. Again, I don't really understand how cutting and eliminating a program like this is going to save us money. Yeah.
▶ 1:06:44I at risk of repeating my last answer, that would be my my answer again. Uh and and I would also emphasize once more that if it's Congress's intent to make this into a statutory obligation of the EPA, then that's something for Congress to do. uh as far at at EPA our priority is on fulfilling all statutory obligations. Uh we get a certain amount of resources.
▶ 1:07:11Uh we have felt when we came in we were we had fallen behind on so many statutory obligations that Congress had set while we were also dedicating resources toward towards all sorts of other things that are not statutory obligations. Uh so our priority right now is getting caught up on all of our different backlogs and fulfilling our statutory obligations. on this program though the reasoning they stated earlier is is the reason is is the reasoning of the administration.
▶ 1:07:38I'm not sure I really heard a justification for eliminating this program and and all of those words administrator. I I think really this is an absolute no-brainer. This is a program that works that supports farmers in my district and most importantly makes our kids healthier and I think we really want to make sure that our kids health comes above the political games that are being played in DC. So, I hope you rethink the decision to eliminate this program and look forward to working with us to fix our air quality before it's too late. And I yield back.
▶ 1:08:08Thank you, uh, Mr. Hello, Administrator Zelden. Good to see you here, uh, back on the hill. And I do want to say it's been awesome to watch you in your new role and to see all the great work that's been done. um you know on behalf of the American people, it's great to see an EPA that's working for the American people.
▶ 1:08:28And certainly as you talk to people uh working in industries and the like, they appreciate an EPA that's uh working to make things happen, trying to get the yes where it's appropriate, working to create a uh stable regulatory environment that's predictable uh and and one that's sensible as opposed to one that's uh being used as a cudel to find every reason to say no. It really makes a tremendous difference.
▶ 1:08:52Um, I wanted to ask you uh about a couple things in to one of the big things we've seen. I have a number of petrochemical facilities in my district and a lot of times what we'd get from the regulatory impact it was almost as if there were kids coming out of college who never worked in the industry setting standards that were unreasonable. some uh regulations that were more stringent than what appeals in nature.
▶ 1:09:21Uh conflicting regulatory environments that make it difficult to figure out in the workplace what you're really supposed to do. Um wondering what you're working to do to remedy that. Um, and one of the things that we've contemplated in our office is how we could potentially write uh legislation that would require realworld work experience. If you're going to regulate in a field, it seems like you should have worked in that field before.
▶ 1:09:50Um, what you might be doing in the APA to to to fix that scenario, what we could do to help support you in that effort. We believe at EPA that we can both protect the environment and grow the economy and we shouldn't have to choose between the two. We don't have to choose between the two. Uh there were a lot of regulations uh that were finalized in 2023 and 2024 that we inherited when we came in.
▶ 1:10:20Uh when uh we announced on March 12th that we were going to be reconsidering a lot of regulations from the end of the Biden administration, some people reported on that with stories and pictures of water quality from 50 years ago, right?
▶ 1:10:38a as if we get if we got rid of a a rule from last year that the water quality goes back to 1970 and it the hysteria the overreaction um is is irresponsible when when we announce a reconsideration by the way that includes a process where I don't prejudge outcomes there's a public comment period not allowed to by law prejudge outcomes we'll go through a public comment period and then we make a decision at the end of uh of that period.
▶ 1:11:09Uh there there's a lot of feedback that we've gotten as it relates to those individual rules. We continue to solicit more and we want ideas from Americans on more that we can do uh to be able to get things right. Uh and as far as uh the staff uh at EPA working on the rulemakings, uh I have found them to be very capable, very talented. I have a lot of faith in them.
▶ 1:11:34Uh these are dedicated career staffers who I've gotten to know and interact with. I have a lot of confidence in their ability. Uh and I would encourage uh I I would encourage them internally and your constituents externally to to be able to participate in that process to make sure we get it right. Uh thank you. Um I wanted to ask you as well, one of the big issues in Texas, of course, is water shortage.
▶ 1:12:02Uh and the EPA recently approved del uh permits for work in Corpus Christi. Uh what you all are doing is you restructure the EPA to ensure you're still able to work with states and on these water issues and communities. Correct. The uh the office of water uh is going to be led by Jessica Kramer who's the president's nominee uh to be the assistant administrator.
▶ 1:12:28uh the the office of water is uh extremely capable to be able to to tackle these issues. I've spoken to Jessica specifically about uh about uh the issue that you referenced and um I I feel very I feel very good about the direction of that office.
▶ 1:12:45um they are going to be plused up uh with some talented staff from uh other aspects of the agency and I'm excited about the work that's ahead uh inside the office of order include including a focus a uh an increased focus and attention on uh issues and research related to PAS.
▶ 1:13:07One more thing I just wanted to do and you know one of the biggest things we need to do big picture is to write our fiscal ship to to signal to the bond markets that we're serious about correcting course to strengthen the dollar do everything we need to uh spur our economy. One of the things that used to be understood as part of sustainability is the economics of sustainability as well. And so I appreciate you having an understanding of that.
▶ 1:13:31But also wanted to thank you for what you've done to to rein in some of the the frivolous um spinning that happened at the end of the the Biden administration and also taking a look at the environmental justice grants because we all want clean air water for all of our kids regardless of where people are. that there's a difference between working to meet that need and then casing uh that kind of activity in Marxist ideology of oppressor versus oppressed uh as as opposed to just working on that and especially reigning in the taxpayer funded lobbying.
▶ 1:14:01I don't think uh people sitting at home working really hard think that their tax dollar should be going to pay for lobbying. So, thank you for what you're doing to reign in the waste, fraud, and abuse. Uh it's really helpful as we try to write the write the ship on on the big picture. Yeah. Uh thank you for uh for bringing up a few important points.
▶ 1:14:18As I was referencing earlier during uh an interaction with one of your colleagues, we believe that if you're going to spend a dollar to deliver clean air, land, and water, that the dollar should get spent directly on remediating the environmental issue you used to get that dollar appropriated in the first place. we shouldn't spend that dollar on a group that's going to tell us that the next dollar should get spent on remediating the environmental issue.
▶ 1:14:48Uh so you as I started reference as an example this climate justice alliance which received a $50 million grant they say that climate justice runs through a free Palestine. Now Americans who are out there listening that say I don't want $50 million to be going towards a group that says that climate justice runs through a free Palestine. I would say that if $50 million was going to get spent in the name of remediating some environmental issue in a community left behind, spend the money directly on remediating that environmental issue.
▶ 1:15:18Uh and the zero tolerance policy towards wasting a penny. If someone comes to me and they have an idea of how to how to $5,000, that's a lot of money for for our taxpayers. It all adds up. Yeah. Whether it's 5,000, it's a million, it's a billion.
▶ 1:15:34One of my frustrations during my eight years in the House is how you could talk about saving a billion dollars and it was like a billion and a million there's no difference like oh the billion dollars is 0.00 you know 3% of some larger number but that's our responsibility to save whatever we can to operate as efficiently as we can. Thank you. Appreciate it. Vice Chair Mallaloy. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:16:04Thank you, Administrator Zelden, for being here. I had several things I was going to ask you about, and you've already answered some of them, so I'm going to be a lot more efficient than I thought I would. Uh, thank you for being in Utah last month. It was good to see you there, and good to see how responsive you were to our state leaders. Um, they've mentioned how grateful they are for that in several forums I've been in. Uh, I just want to reiterate an offer the state made that day to pilot any new programs you're looking at.
▶ 1:16:32if you need to stand something up and have a proof of concept, we're we're ready to do that. Um, and I know the governor sent you a letter with the state's priorities. I just want to quickly mention our PM2.5 ozone and regional haze issues that we urgently need help from the EPA on. Um, so I was going to ask about WUS. I'm also an attorney and I don't know how many hours of my life I've spent pouring over Wus documents and trying to figure out how we could survive with a Wus rule.
▶ 1:17:01So, thank you for a simplified WUS rule that an average person can understand. Um, and I want to echo Chairman Simpson's concerns about SRF and rural drinking water funding. It's another thing I was going to ask about and you've already answered it. Um, so thank you for the commitment you gave him to help us with that. Guidance letters. Agencies have gotten in the habit of issuing guidance letters and because they are neither rules nor regulations, they don't go through the regular process.
▶ 1:17:27But the industries feel beholden to comply with guidance letters and there's no process for challenging them, for getting rid of them. Um, it feels a little bit like an oldfashioned shakeddown. You know, it's a really nice industry you've got there. Be a pity if we had to come shut it down. Uh, what are you doing moving forward to either get rid of guidance letters or change the way they're done? Well, one of the examples of us getting rid of a guidance letter was in response to a request that came in from your home state.
▶ 1:17:58Uh, it also came in from Arizona. Uh, not a partisan request by any means, but it's related to international air impacts and the inability of Arizona or or Utah to be able to um be in compliance.
▶ 1:18:17uh you know and whether I'm speaking to Celeste Malloy of Utah or I'm speaking to Mark Kelly of Arizona um whether it's your governor or it's the governor of Arizona um there there was this request to take down the guidance letter uh which we did and um we were happy to do so to be able to be as responsive as possible to these requests coming in from the state and especially when you give an example of how a a community cannot come come into compliance.
▶ 1:18:47Even if they removed all of their vehicles off the road, even if they uh had no emissions, they still could not come into compliance, which you have some unique issues in Utah that you're leading and you're the tip of the spear of addressing, and we're happy uh to do so. I wish that uh we didn't come together on the um on the circumstances that we did this. Uh and and I I'll say it briefly uh and I apologize for taking a few seconds of your time. I came into Congress uh with Ryan Zinci and Mia Love.
▶ 1:19:15uh we got together that morning uh for her for her funeral. She's uh she's deeply missed. She served uh with with all of us and um while it was um very tough circumstances that got together, um it was a pleasure to be able to uh spend part of that day and that afternoon uh being able to meet with uh with your other elected officials and to address these concerns. It meant a lot that you were there. Thank you.
▶ 1:19:39Um, previous EPA regulations have weakened the US electrical grid, especially when it comes to fossil fuels. What's your plan for regulating fossil fuels moving forward since we still need them to be part of our electric portfolio? Powering the Great American Comeback has five pillars. Number one, pillar one, clean air, land, and water for all Americans. It gets to the heart of the core mission of EPA. Number two is unleashing energy dominance.
▶ 1:20:07Uh I mentioned earlier number three with permitting reform and advancing cooperative federalism. Number four is making America the AI capital of the world. Five is uh about bringing back American auto jobs. I referenced all of this earlier. This is a mandate from the American public. This is the demand of the American public. They want agencies here to be cognizant of their economic pain and their concern and their priorities.
▶ 1:20:31And in order to be able to deliver on their demands, we have to unleash more American energy production. Uh we do it better than so many other countries around the world. Emissions have been down over the course of the last couple of decades. Innovation is up and we have resources that if we tap into, we will do so better for the environment than so many other countries around the world. It's better for our national security and it's better for our economy.
▶ 1:20:59And if you care about grid reliability, if you care about um making America the AI capital of the world, you care about those jobs, you want to make it affordable to both fill up your your refrigerator with your groceries to be able to get the prescription drugs that you need to survive and heat your home. This is something that agencies of the federal government need to lean into. The president uh created a national energy dominance council. These agencies work together more closely than ever before.
▶ 1:21:28Uh, and it's a top priority of the the Trump administration as I know it is of yours. Thank you. Okay, the last thing I've got, uh, registering pesticides. The EPA does the risk assessments for registrations and pesticides have helped America produce affordable food for almost a hundred years. Uh, will the Maha Commission be making any claims about the impacts of pesticides on Americans health? Well, I I would have to I'm not the chair of the Maha Commission.
▶ 1:21:57uh uh as far as uh the position of other members uh of the cabinet or other members of the commission best directed to them. Um I I would say specifically as the administrator of EPA and uh speaking for myself uh I would say it's important to understand as a um as as a need for farmers for agriculture for our food supply.
▶ 1:22:24Uh it's important that we uh follow the science that uh we use sound science in making decisions uh and that we understand uh and and carefully deliberate and are are thoughtful at EPA uh on this front. We as I mentioned earlier we inherited a big backlog as on the pesticides review 14,000 14,000 uh we've gotten through a little over 2,300 since we've come in.
▶ 1:22:53Uh, Chairman Simpson asked about some of the IT improvements which are important. Uh, we're we're leaning into AI in a way that is going to help bring it down and, uh, we're using FTEEs to help bring that backlog down further. Uh, we also released our insecticide strategy just a couple weeks ago as a result of feedback from the community. Uh, this is a strategy that if anyone has any good idea, we can update the strategy as the time moves forward.
▶ 1:23:21Um but uh as far as a crop protection tool um hearing the merits of uh those who ask for it and at at the end of the day making our decisions based on sound science I believe is an an important to keep in mind as far as the path forward. Thank you. I appreciate that answer and I agree with everything you said. We need to be able to make sure our food's healthy and safe, but I've been concerned about the backlog of approving new pesticides that might be an improvement.
▶ 1:23:50So, thank you for your time. I'll yield. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And first of all, I'd like to thank you for stepping up and serving again. It's not an easy task, and I I know well, but thank you uh for for going the front line again. Uh just to follow up on the Tijana Slooh, as you know, if the currents and tides are are right, it exits the Tijana River and then that it in a big eddy.
▶ 1:24:19And if the tide is right, it goes into the bay and the SEALs aren't going to move training. Uh, as far as the congressional side of funding, I've seen figures from 350 million to 700 million on what our piece is. Do you have an estimate of what we need to fund on that side to have, and I agree with your 100% solution, do you have an estimate on what Congress needs to put forth on our funding side? So, I I don't have uh in front of me this the skinny budget for anything other than EPA.
▶ 1:24:48Uh so I I don't know if there's a line in there or lines in there as it relates to IBWC and uh and South Bay. Um there has been hundreds of millions of dollars appropriated by Congress towards uh upgrading the treatment plant. Uh that is important and that's a key aspect of the 100% solution.
▶ 1:25:09getting more capacity into South Bay, not just at the end of the project, but also uh in between to be able to boost 5 10 million gallons per day um before completing the full project, being able to do that soon would be very helpful.
▶ 1:25:24I would say that it's coming from Mexico and the the idea that we're just going to allow uh allow the raw sewage to come into the United States and we're just going to, you know, deal with everything at the US taxpayer expense on our side is the wrong answer. That's not the message that should be sent to Americans and it's not the message that should be sent spent uh sent to Mexicans. Uh it's important for Mexico to clean up the raw sewage coming from Mexico.
▶ 1:25:53Uh, and Congress has already appropriated hundreds of millions of dollars. Um, but I, you know, again, I don't have the the skinny budget in front of me. I I want to clear up one other point that's important to you, I'm sure. Uh, when I was in San Diego, I visited uh the the Naval Special Warfare School. Um, and uh, and was briefed on the latest. The Navy Seals are not swimming in raw sewage and getting sick from raw sewage.
▶ 1:26:24However, what is happening is that there are training impacts. So, where they would go out into the water, as you were pointing out with the flows, they may have to do something else with their training. Uh maybe they're swimming in their pool or some other location instead of being in of the in in the water. So, uh, that's one of the misunderstandings, uh, that that that's out there.
▶ 1:26:49Um, maybe that's based off of information in in the past, but to be able to give the most accurate real time info from that visit when I was there a couple weeks ago, uh, the commander uh, made it very clear that he does not have his Navy Seals swimming in raw sewage.
▶ 1:27:06They keep an eye on uh the water quality and if uh they feel like it's not safe, they find some other the way uh some other way to train uh those um those sailors uh in order to to hit their requirements. And um again, you at risk, I know this is your time and not mine, but when we came in that freshman class, there were two last names uh in in that freshman office lottery.
▶ 1:27:34And I just want to apologize right now on the record because there were two numbers that were left 10 and 41 and I left you a really bad office when I pulled that 10. So um my formal apology here on the record come but there there's also you know I I was in charge of seal training and then there's flesh eating diseases and you have things coming out of the river that aren't necessarily sewage and as as as a surfer tanas is a is a great surfing spot. Uh and and that's a problem too.
▶ 1:28:00But I also want to want to thank you for rescending the rule on particulate on coal strip. Uh the former administration targeted coal strip. The coal strip is our key energy producer on the east side of Montana. Without it, lights are going to go off. But it was really a rule to target it on particulate.
▶ 1:28:22uh that the coal strip facility meets the toxins and the mercury standards which we agree with but particulate is dust and there there's more dust going up a road in Montana on on gravel than there is coming on that stacks but I greatly appreciate it on behalf of Montana and lastly uh unfunded mandates there are a lot of little communities out there that are struggling with unfunded mandates when the agency comes across In
▶ 1:28:52some cases, you know, our our drinking water because we do have a lot of of minerals in our drinking water. Sometimes the standard uh leaving these facilities is greater than the input. I mean I mean if it's if you're getting water out of a stream or or a source, uh these small communities are mandated to clean the water up more than than the input.
▶ 1:29:16Uh are are you uh looking at the unfunded mandates that that that the states have to face particularly rural rural America? Sure. Uh Congressman, uh when when uh EPA engages in these primacy requests, these state implementation plans, the requests that come in from states, we want to partner with states.
▶ 1:29:39Uh we we're we are not in any of these conversations trying to um bring down a a heavy hand of government to have an unrealistic um decision where the the local government uh is unable to be able to hit that demand that's coming from Washington DC.
▶ 1:30:02Uh this gets to an exchange that I had earlier with the ranking member on on PAS where uh it's a very important concern that Americans have as relates to PAS contamination in their in their drinking water, but a small local drinking water system um is coming through their member of Congress and saying we can't hit that date in your regulation.
▶ 1:30:28However, if we had two more years, this is our plan to hit it. And and having that type of uh flexibility um and also providing technical assistance uh is something that EPA uh has many tools to be able to assist with. I I appreciate it.
▶ 1:30:44I I I and I appreciate your sensitivity on it because, you know, rural America does things a little different, you know, uh out out there and and we're not Washington DC and and you know, sometimes a holding pond is as a great has been out there since 50 60 years. That's probably the best most efficient way to handle it. So, I greatly appreciate again your your time and and being here and your honesty and your you're willing to work with us on it.
▶ 1:31:10And if you do have any any uh idea and can find your staff what an obligation on on the congressional side for appropriations would look like on San Diego, then uh we we would love that number and thank you. I yield back, Mr. and go Army. You just have to say that. Sorry. Sorry your time's expired. We were trying We were trying to make this an uncontroversial hearing, but you know, just Mr.
▶ 1:31:36Chairman, if I if I if I may, the Constitution maintain a navy and raise an army. You want what want to think about that? Uh, thank you for that. My, uh, my partner is a West Point grad. My brother's a Navy veteran, so my family's always in conflict. Understand that one. Um, and I guess I just have to say on this question of unfunded mandates, you know, we we used to talk about those a lot when I was a state legislator.
▶ 1:32:04We are constantly concerned about the unfunded mandates that come from Washington and this is more of a just overall statement. Uh looking at the skinny budget, we'll soon see hopefully a a serious budget. But this level of cuts to state government, which I think goes throughout this administration's will be nothing but an unfunded mandate.
▶ 1:32:24Because if you stick with your basic principles of wanting to have clean air and clean water, yet we don't fund the states to do the work that has to be done, whether it's permitting or enforcement or technical assistance. Um, and we make the cuts to your agency that have already been done. We we are looking at a unfunded mandate from the federal government at all levels in magnitudes and we've never seen before. I just think that's a a concern for appropriators.
▶ 1:32:51We're not there in many ways yet because we haven't experienced this budget cut, but I'm just saying I I don't know how this happens. Um, I just want to follow up on one last thing about climate change. Um, climate change is a serious threat to our environment, our health, our economy, and you yourself have said climate change is something we need to take seriously. Yet, from my perspective, almost every action you have taken at the EPA does not take this threat seriously and is only going to exacerbate climate change.
▶ 1:33:20You are reconsidering the endangerment finding. You're giving free passes to polluters. You're shutting down EPA offices that did much of the work. So, I'm just curious, what specifically under your leadership will you do to combat climate change and to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? Part of the uh the reorganization that we announced uh actually create a couple of new offices inside of the office of air and radiation.
▶ 1:33:45one uh gets to the heart of your the initial point you made and and also what what I was just discussing with uh Congressman Zinci that you referenced uh a new office of state partnerships that that's going to be housed inside the office of air and radiation specifically. Um as it relates to state implementation plans, we want to be able to work with states on their air issues.
▶ 1:34:10uh when you put these regulations together whether it's say you take particular matter 2.5 and exceptional events then you have a state concerned about if they were to do some forest management then they're going to create a an issue where they might become uh they might go into non-attainment and that might impact the federal funding that they receive and it's important that we have and the state has the flexibility to work
▶ 1:34:40directly on these issues because the states also want clean air, land, and water. And we don't want to have a one-sizefits-all solution. Um, something that happened during the Biden administration was they created a federal implementation plan and uh rejected a lot of the the state implementation plans and a lot of the state implementation plan requests uh were not granted and the backlog um the backlog was significant.
▶ 1:35:07So uh the key I believe is in working with states uh and I think that that new office which is one of more than one office inside the office of air and radiation is going to help uh with achieving that goal. I will just say that um for all of us you know whatever side of the aisle you're on um there are always moments where we say yeah we need more flexibility in how we implement these laws. we need reorganization and big bureaus of the federal government.
▶ 1:35:37I understand the value of doing that. Uh but I am just deeply deeply concerned about the the possibility of doing that and stripping so much funding away both from the federal government and the states, losing valuable employees who have the expertise to do what needs to be done. Uh pushing back on industry, making it too easy for them, making it too easy for the polluters. Um, I am just very worried about the the path that the EPA is going down.
▶ 1:36:05I appreciate you being here with us today and the answers that you've given us, but um, I'm just going to say I'm incredibly concerned and worried about what we're doing for our children's future. And just to um rank a member if I may um just to give some insight, our office of enforcement and compliance um I I I pulled up the numbers from inauguration date of May 7th of FY25 and I asked our team to compare it to the same period of 20 of fiscal year 2024, January 20th to May 7th.
▶ 1:36:35So the same time time frame. Um, and in 2024, we obtained $15 million in criminal fines and restitution. 15 million. In FY25, a year later, we received 534 million. In FY24, um, we received 0 in criminal forfeite. In 25, received over $1 billion in criminal forfeite.
▶ 1:37:05And uh as far as cleanup of contaminated soil and water in the same period of 24, it was 64,000 cubic yards. In J from January 20th to May 7th of 2025, it was 701,000 cubic yards. Uh so I I I just want to say that our office of enforcement and compliance uh has a lot of uh men and women who are working hard on these cases.
▶ 1:37:31uh you you mentioned in your opening statement and your first round and your second round concerns related to that. So, I just wanted to uh add some stats and color and there there's more stats that uh that are similar just to show that they are hard at work. Well, thank you for that information. I appreciate hearing those numbers. Would be happy to hear more and we'll really look forward to seeing the the full budget and an opportunity to have more transparency into the agency, into your reorganization, into the downsizing of staff.
▶ 1:37:59I think that will help us to figure out exactly where our concerns are and uh see if there are ways we can work together. Thank you and I yield back. Thank you, ranking member. Um couple of other questions I want to ask about as you know the office of chemical safety and pollution prevention also regulates the manufacturer and use of all pesticides in this country. I hear from our farmers and pesticide manufacturers about delays in the agency's processing of pesticide applications.
▶ 1:38:26I know the agency is moving forward with the third party assessment required by Pria 5. Can you provide an update on this third party assessment and when we should expect it to be completed the uh so the audit was delayed when we had come in. We have it moving forward now. Uh there was a meeting on April 7th. There have been weekly meetings since April 7th as far as uh completing the audit.
▶ 1:38:56uh with what you referenced, I can't speak to the delay before we came in. Uh but it's something that we are addressing. Will we expect to see that soon? Uh yes. Uh absolutely. Okay. Another issue I often hear about uh in both the pesticide and chemical program is the need for more staff and staff that are highly qualified. I know that the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention is part of EPA's most recent reorganization plan.
▶ 1:39:24And I understand that there are going to be increases in FTEEs to this office in order to address the backlog of chemical and pesticide applications. Is this increase going to come from moving functions and staff that already exist within the agency into OCP uh or from hiring new staff that do not currently work at the EPA or a combination of the two? Uh we are plusing up the office of chemical safety from inside of the agency.
▶ 1:39:53We have received thousands of requests through the portal uh as uh this became open as an opportunity for agency employees to be able to apply for by the way the expected delivery on the audit I believe is the end by the end of the fiscal year I think the end of September. I ask your last question.
▶ 1:40:13Um, you as I was just kidding around with, uh, Congressman Zinci, our our our background our backgrounds in the military are a bit different than some of the other agencies, but for for me, I found excitement in being able to go do something else, you know, inside of the Department of Defense.
▶ 1:40:33uh and we're seeing uh many uh many people apply with enthusiasm for some of these positions that are available because they were they were doing something for a very long time and now they're able to do something else that they also care about. Um but to answer your question again, it's it's specific to inside of the agency and anyone we're seeing applications come in from all sorts of different offices inside of the agency. Okay.
▶ 1:41:01Uh it would be helpful probably uh if we could see a reorganizational chart that would result uh if this is going to be a net increase in FTEES and how many employees you think or FTEES would be available in each of these different departments or after the reorganization. Uh we've already discussed waters of the United States thoroughly. Thank you for taking that on. I hope we get this settled. It's been a 20-year issue with me. Uh and every administration rewrites the modus rule.
▶ 1:41:29Let's make one that's enduring and lasting uh that uh is dependable with some certainty in it for individuals and I know that's what you're working on. Last question. Renewable fuel standards uh small refinery exemptions. As you know, there are more than 130 outstanding small refinery exemptions uh petitions under the renewable fuel standard. This backlog is the consequence of Biden administration's flawed approach to solving S sur petitions.
▶ 1:41:54and small refineries deserve to be heard and they deserve to have their petitions fairly considered under the law which requires that the EPA resolve petitions within 90 days following their submission to the agency. I would appreciate your commitment to the uh that the EPA uh to begin open fair and and be forthcoming as its process to quickly resolve these issues. Uh very very important actually none of these were getting approved at all. Yeah. um in the in the last administration.
▶ 1:42:25Uh so we we want to get caught up uh we want to get caught up as quickly as we can and and we're hearing from members of Congress uh who share that concern. Thank you. Loy no more. Anything else? Mr. Speaker, thank you uh Administrator Zeldon. It's good to hear good to see you again and thanks for coming today uh to discuss your budget.
▶ 1:42:46We look forward to hearing as the chairman Cole said the full budget that has the budget justifications and stuff and then actually we'll know more uh when we read the justifications and maybe we'll have I'm sure we will have discussions about some of those things as we move this forward. But we look forward to to uh working with you to make these changes at the EPA. Thank Here's dirt.