▶ 0:04:09of you combined represent over 60 years of federal civil service and we are grateful for your time. Special congratulations to you, Judge Conrad, on your recent retirement from district court work in North Carolina. As a former prosecutor, I know the American judicial system is the gold standard for fair, equal, and impartial treatment under the law. is a critical part of our democracy and has been since our nation's founding almost 250 years ago.
▶ 0:04:34It is incumbent upon us to ensure that our partner branches of government have the tools they need to execute the duties of their office. Courouses across the United States serve not only as a place of employment but as a symbol of what makes our country great. But many of the courouses need repair to keep pace with modern times. At the same time, the judicial system faces the reality of modern threats to both its physical and cyber security.
▶ 0:05:00Protests across the country have damaged federal property and threaten the safety and security of judges, officers, and staff who work every day to serve the American people. Countries like China and Russia focus their efforts on gaining access to the IT systems of the judiciary to undermine American democracy at its core. And now federal judges find their names in the news or on social media and they are met with online vulgarity and in some cases physical harm to them or their loved ones.
▶ 0:05:27As the judiciary's fiscal year 2026 spending plan reveals it takes significant resources to operate the federal judiciary. We need to understand their priorities and resources how they're being deployed across its divisions and why. Judge St. Eve and Judge Conrad let me again commend you on your leadership during these unique and challenging times. I look forward to working with you. I now recognize the ranking member for his opening statement. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:05:55I want to thank Judge Conrad and Judge St. Eve for being with us and for the meeting we had which was very helpful as a preface to this hearing. If the judiciary, Mr. chairman is to meet this pivotal moment and preserve the rule of law. We must ensure that it has the resources and independence it needs to function as a co-equal branch of government.
▶ 0:06:18That's why I'm very disturbed to see certain House Republicans call for retaliation against judges who rule on the law as they see it, but with which the president administration may disagree. Judiciary Chair Jim Jordan sent a letter asking this committee to limit funding the judiciary uses to issue and enforce injunctions.
▶ 0:06:42Other House Republicans have filed articles of impeachment against judges, not for any misconduct, but rather for ruling against the administration. Federal judges who block Trump's illegal executive actions are just trying to do their jobs and interpreting the law. That is their role and that is critical to our democracy. Many were appointed by Republican presidents. Some were even appointed by Donald Trump himself.
▶ 0:07:10I agree with Chief Justice Roberts assessment earlier this week that retaliation against them has to use his endangered the rule of law. You can't claim to stand for law and order when you threaten the independence of the branch responsible for upholding law and order. Some of my colleagues across the aisle agree, and I hope they'll stand up for the judiciary.
▶ 0:07:39Our subcommittee needs to ensure our courts receive the resources they need to fulfill their duties under the Constitution. Doing so is especially important considering the recent continuing resolution did not provide any funding increase for the judiciary in fiscal year 725. Six of the 11 judicial branch appropriations were funded at a freeze for a second year, meaning they were forced to continue operating at fiscal year 23 levels.
▶ 0:08:08For fiscal year 26, judiciary requested a 9.4 4 billion in discretionary funding, an increase of 800 million or 9.3% over the 25 continuing resolution. Most of that increase, however, some 68% is just to offset inflation, while the rest is for pro programmatic re reassessment.
▶ 0:08:32Failing to fulfill that request would threaten the judiciary's ability to perform basic constitutional and statutory functions. I'm particularly concerned, Mr. Chairman, about our federal public program, which has faced a severe staffing shortage and budget shortfall for years.
▶ 0:08:55As a matter of fact, we made a mistake in this committee uh and the Senate made a further mistake which was corrected which would have completely undermined the ability to perform the public defender service as is necessary. The judiciary has requested $1.77 billion for defender services, an increase, a substantial increase of $315 million or 22% over the fisc year 25 CR.
▶ 0:09:24again a freeze to at 23 levels. Without that funding, courts will struggle to ensure that Americans are provided their right to an attorney, a competent attorney. We also need to ensure that our courts can keep up with the increasing case loads. That means following through on the request to increase funding for the court of appeals and district courts by $345 million or 6%.
▶ 0:09:55And again for the administrative office of the US courts by 8 million or 8% over the 25CR. Again, we're talking about 73 levels. Essentially, without these increases to help our courts here hire staff as needed and cover basic operational costs, case backlogs will only continue to grow, making it harder for Americans to receive timely justice and due process.
▶ 0:10:22I know all the committee members understand this, but criminal cases will become be must become before the civil cases because of the right to a speedy trial. That means small businesses and other Americans will be pushed uh to later resolution of their cases. We also need to devote more resources to keep our judges and courts safe at the time when Donald Trump and his allies are vilifying our courts.
▶ 0:10:53public hears that uh and it uh has a tendency to inflame those who may be irrational, may be mentally ill, or just may be angry. We ought to fulfill its request for a 142 million or 19% increase above the 25 CR for court security.
▶ 0:11:15Now, court security is a euphemism for making sure our judges are safe, making sure that our judges are not intimidated, making sure that justice will be served unrelated to the threat of violence. I look forward to the hearing hearing more from Judge Conrad and Judge St. Eve. Although, I want to say to you, I'm going to go back to my other hearing going back and forth. Um, but my staff will be here and I'm going to hear everything you say. But it may not be.
▶ 0:11:45It may be virtually. Everyone who stands for law and order, Mr. Chairman, ought to be united in the mission of ensuring that our judiciary is safe, neutral, and articulating their thoughts regarding and opinions with reference to the law unrelated to intimidation and forces beyond their control. I yield back.
▶ 0:12:15Thank you, Mr. Hyer. Today, we welcome the testimony of the Honorable Amy St. Eve, chair of the uh budget committee for the Judicial Conference of the United States and dear friend of Magistrate Jonathan Greenberg, and the Honorable Robert J. Conrad, Jr., Secretary of the Judicial Conference of the United States. Without objection, your full written testimony will be entered into the record. With that in mind, we ask you to please summarize your opening statement in five minutes. Judge St. Eve, you're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:12:46Good morning, Chairman Joyce, Ranking Member Hoyer, and members of the subcommittee. My name is Amy St. Eve, and I'm a judge on the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago. On behalf of the Judicial Conference Committee on the Budget, which I chair, I am pleased to appear before you today to present and explain the fiscal year 2026 budget request of the federal judiciary. Thank you for the opportunity to do so.
▶ 0:13:14An effective, efficient, and independent judiciary is foundational to the system of our government. adequate and consistent funding to is absolutely critical to conduct our constitutional and statutory responsibilities and we are reliant on this subcommittee to help ensure that those resources are in place for us.
▶ 0:13:36The branch's fiscical year 26 funding request must be looked at in the context of the recently enacted continuing resolution for fiscal year 25 where every component of the branch was held to its fisc year 24 enacted funding levels regardless of any change in workload or other requirements. And for most of our accounts, this is the second straight year of a hard freeze.
▶ 0:14:05Among the impacts of the fullear CR are the deferral of dozens of judicial security projects at a time when threats against judges are increasing, the suspension of more than two months of payments to private attorneys who have provided constitutionally required representation to indigent defendants.
▶ 0:14:27the continuation of a long hiring freeze in federal defender organizations and a year-over-year reduction in the allotments made to courts and probation and pre-trial services offices to serve and protect your constituents. While the judiciary's fiscical year 26 request of 9.4 4 billion may seem large.
▶ 0:14:51These resources are needed to rebuild and restore critical functions of the courts and the federal defenders that were not sufficiently funded in either fiscal year 24 or 25 and to address new and potentially significant workload increases based on the law enforcement initiatives of the executive branch. Our request includes 6.9 billion for the courts and probation and pre-trial services offices.
▶ 0:15:20More than 85% of this requested increase in this area reflects just standard adjustments to maintain current services with the remainder funding critical new investments in staffing, space, and physical infrastructure and information technology, including the next installment of funds that is essential for our multi-year cyber security and IT modernization plan.
▶ 0:15:48The defender services request totals 1.8 billion. Well over half of the requested increase in this account is needed just to mitigate the effects of the suspension of payments to private attorneys that was necess necessitated by fiscal year 25 by the full CR. The remainder will support current service levels and allow a resumption of hiring in the federal defender offices.
▶ 0:16:15We are also requesting almost 900 million for our court security program to address a complex and evolving threat environment facing judges and the judicial process overall. The request fully funds contractual obligations to our court security officers and helps recap our systems and equipment budget which was slashed due to two straight years of funding freezes in this account.
▶ 0:16:42The request also continues the expansion of our vulnerability management program which was instituted to improve the safety of judges and their families after the murder of the son of just judge Esther Solace and the critical wounding of her husband in 2020. Finally, our request includes the 19 million that we project will be needed to fully fund grant and pedagural requirements for the year.
▶ 0:17:12As we ask the subcommittee to make the substantial investment in the judiciary, I want to assure you that we take very seriously our commitment to be responsible stewards of our funds.
▶ 0:17:25My committee has an entire subcommittee that is dedicated to finding opportunities to achieve efficiencies, adopt innovative business practices, and reduce or limit our costs without negatively impacting the quality of judicial services. At any given time, we have numerous cost containment measures that are at various stages of implementation, and those are described more fully in our budget request.
▶ 0:17:54Again, thank you for the opportunity to appear today and for your support of the judiciary. I understand that the fiscal year 26 budget we have put forward is a large one and that this is a difficult budget environment, but it is necessary to support the fair, efficient, and secure administration of justice in this country.
▶ 0:18:16I ask that you please make a part of the record my statement and those provided by the Court of International Trade, the Federal Judicial Center, and the US Sentencing Commission on whose behalf we submit requests. I would be pleased to answer your questions at this time. Thank you, Judge. Uh, now recognize for five minutes the honorable Judge Robert Thank you, Chairman Joyce.
▶ 0:18:48members committee. My name is Bob Conrad. I am the director of the administrative office and secretary of the judicial conference of the United States. Before being selected to this post by the Chief Justice, I served as a United States District Judge in the Western District of North Carolina for nearly 20 years. For a second straight year in FY2025, our court security program received flat funding. We are concerned about this.
▶ 0:19:18We are also concerned about the increase in threats being made against federal judges and courouses in the last several years. The independence of the judicial branch is jeopardized when judges are threatened with harm or impeachment on the basis of their rulings. Our constitutional system depends on judges who are sworn to administer justice without respect to persons. In doing so, they must be free from threats and intimidation.
▶ 0:19:49This is essential not just for the safety of judges and their families, but also to the pursuit of justice and equal rights for all. Threats of reprisals and retribution erode the rule of law. So, we have safety uh concerns compounded by the consecutive years of flat funding. I respectfully urge the subcommittee to fully fund our FY2026 court security request.
▶ 0:20:17Second, we have in recent years discussed our need for additional resources to address a sharp increase in the number and sophistication of cyber attacks on the judiciary IT systems. Judiciary is a high-V value target for criminals.
▶ 0:20:34We have a classified briefing scheduled for next Tuesday, May 20th, to share some additional details on cyber attacks with House and Senate Appropriations Committee leadership and FSG subcommittee leadership. We do require ongoing resources to secure and modernize our systems, and we ask for the subcommittee's support. Third, I'd like to turn to our efforts to ensure a safe and respectful workplace for all judiciary employees.
▶ 0:21:04I'm proud to chair the federal judiciary workplace conduct working group created by Chief Justice Roberts in 2018. For seven years, this group comprised of some of the sharpest, most experienced judges and other court leaders have worked to accomplish the Chief Justice's directive to create an exemp exemplary workplace. We have made significant improvements to our workplace conduct policies and practices.
▶ 0:21:32Last fall, we issued our first annual report on workplace conduct. In March of this year, we released the working group's analysis of the Federal Judicial C Center's first national workplace survey of judiciary employees. The survey went out to 28,000 employees. A statistically impressive 50% responded. 91% of respondents indicated they had not experienced wrongful conduct of any kind.
▶ 0:22:01Over 80% responded that they were proud of their work and like their jobs and would recommend their place of employment to family and friends. In addition, the survey showed us areas where we might improve and the working group has issued additional recommendations to improve training, make reporting misconduct easier, and eliminate fear of retaliation. We will use the survey results to guide our efforts in making further improvements to workplace conduct policies.
▶ 0:22:31Turning to the AO budget, the FY2025 fullyear CR represents a second year of flat funding at the FY2023 level. Because staff salaries and benefits comprise 96% of the AO budget, the impact of funding shortfalls rests almost entirely on our ability to retain and hire staff.
▶ 0:22:57For FY 2025, we are forced to leave a number of important unfilled. The AO's FY2026 request seeks 110.5 million dollars, a 7.6% 6% increase above the FY2025 enacted level.
▶ 0:23:18The requested 7.8 million appropriations increase is comprised of 6.2 million for adjustments to base for standard budgetary increases and 1.6 million to hire new staff to improve AO operations and enable us to better support the courts and federal defender organizations. My written statement discusses our need for new judgeships. Last Congress, we made the case for an an additional 66 positions.
▶ 0:23:48The bill passed unanimously in the Senate and received post-election bipartisan support in the House. Unfortunately, it was vetoed at the last minute. The compelling case for new judgeships remains. My statement also discusses our new courthouse priorities which are funded under GSA.
▶ 0:24:10Our top priority is a new courthouse annex in San Juan, Puerto Rico, which the judicial conference designated as a space emergency in 2020. I urge you to make yourself familiar with the plight of judiciary employees in Puerto Rico working in trailers behind concertina wire, a courthouse that is outdated, unsafe, and built on a seismic fault line.
▶ 0:24:35It represents a compelling case for emergency funding and I would ask that you heed our call. Our other space priorities are new courthouse projects in Hartford, Connecticut, Chattanooga, Tennessee, Bowling Green, Kentucky, and Anchorage, Alaska. All told, we seek 863 million in FY 2026 for GSA for these priority projects. Prepared to answer the subcommittee's questions. Thank you, your honor.
▶ 0:25:06Well, I I first ran into the red, yellow, green when I worked in the federal court. So, I I know you've seen this before. Uh but, uh we try to make sure that everybody has a chance to answer questions. People be moving in and out, so please don't let that uh bother you as you follow up. Uh and former defender and prosecutor myself, I understand that uh the publicity that sometimes comes to a judge, whether they want it or not, they're randomly selected.
▶ 0:25:34However, technology, social media, and the 247 news cycle have increased the likelihood that a judge's name will be reported on all media sites. This now leads to an unprecedented amount of attention on an individual is responsible for overseeing a federal case. Would you describe the threat environment and how it has evolved over the last decade or so with respect to uh federal judges? And what is the federal judiciary doing to ensure that tragedies like the murder of Daniel and Derell don't happen again?
▶ 0:26:04the federal the threat environment is dynamic and complex and it's important and essential for us to have our court security account funded to address this not just outside of the home but in the courthouse as well. There have been since 2020 a lot of attacks on courouses and damage to courouses.
▶ 0:26:27The court security account funds our court security officers who are really the frontline officers at courouses who screen individuals coming through and make sure that the judges when they're there are safe. It also funds the essential equipment at the courouses, the screening equipment, the video equipment, the magnetometers, and it funds our vulnerability management program.
▶ 0:26:55The vulnerability management program is something that the courts have taken on to help get personal identifying information or PII of judges off of the internet. As you indicated, it's very hard easy to find things out um including home addresses of judges off of social media or the internet.
▶ 0:27:19and our vulnerability management program is an easy way to help judges pull that information off of the internet. Um, as of April, 77% of our active federal judges have enrolled in the program and work with the specialists to help get this information off.
▶ 0:27:43In addition to the uh delete me program which uh attempts to remove uh personal identification information of judges uh from the internet and judge Eve said almost 80% of judges have have signed up for we have uh taken steps to uh enroll judges in home uh intrusion detection uh to uh protect them when they're at at home and also also are engaged
▶ 0:28:13in hardening projects uh across the country with respect to our our courouses. So the threat environment is real. It's been uh present for a number of years and the judiciary in the United States Marshall Service uh takes it uh seriously, which is why we're asking for this funding.
▶ 0:28:32I can attest to the fact that the bomb threats and having my home swatted uh and and using the programs you're talking about didn't take my home address off because we still have to put it down on places like where we put in our application to run for office uh the title of my home. Uh and that's unfortunate and I understand you're going through the same problem. But as you realize this administration has made cost savings a priority across the federal government.
▶ 0:29:01How would you elaborate on the judiciary ensuring that this fiscally responsible and the activities are undertaken with cost containment in mind and are there internal and groups uh or programs to ensure that that is taking place? Yes, thank you Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:29:17The as I indicated in my opening statement, the budget committee has an entire subcommittee devoted to cost containment and at any given time we have various measures that are in place in different in a different place.
▶ 0:29:34Recently um one such engagement we had was to put in place a cap on spending that individual chambers can have on library books encouraging more the use of electronic research and sharing of library materials.
▶ 0:29:52We are looking into the use of technology for detainees who are housed far away from federal courouses so that probation officers and pre-trial services officers and attorneys who are representing them don't need to travel sometimes significant amount of miles to go and visit with them. That they can do it electronically through equipment and that would save quite a bit of money.
▶ 0:30:21um and time for all three of those categories. We are also looking at shared resources. Um my courthouse in Chicago, we have the court of appeals, the district court, the magistrate, the bankruptcy all in the same courthouse. So something that we recently instituted was we're sharing among the district court, the magistrates, and the court of appeals HR now. So we've combined those and we're looking at doing the same for it.
▶ 0:30:50Other courouses are looking at shared resources that they can engage in. So at any given time um we have different things in place. As you know we've had the no net new in place on our space that courts cannot expand their space without giving up some. And we are focusing on space which is quite expensive for us and a chunk of our budget. We are looking at other ways that we can save with space. Thank you. Um, as I said before, people are going to be moving in and out.
▶ 0:31:20I am going to run down to a TEUD hearing. The vice chair, Mr. Loa, will take over at this point. The chair now recognizes Mr. Ivy from Maryland. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Glad to see my colleague is moving up to the uh to the big chair here. Um I do want to thank you all for coming in to testify. I certainly uh share the views of Mr.
▶ 0:31:49Hoyer with respect to the need for the increases uh for the judiciary. Cyber security I think is in particular is a an interest of mine having served on the homeland security committee last year. Uh but uh personal security for judges and personnel is a big one for me too. We had um a state judge who was assassinated uh in 2023. Uh he'd made a ruling earlier in the courthouse that day.
▶ 0:32:17Uh the agrieved party followed him home and shot him in his driveway. And I'm aware of uh the case. I I believe there was a individual who threatened I think it was Justice Kavanaaugh and he's being prosecuted currently. So uh we know these things are out there and we know they happen on both sides. I happened to work on the task force last year with respect to the attempted assassination of uh then candidate Trump.
▶ 0:32:44Uh but I do want to say this though and I think it's important for because there are these issues on both sides and the judiciary and beyond. I think what we say uh in in politics and as elected officials is very important for us to pay attention to. I I do think um as Mr. Hoorer pointed out House Committee um Judiciary Committee Chairman Jordan's comments uh with respect to cutting funds to the judiciary depending on some of your rulings.
▶ 0:33:13Don't agree with that policy for sure. I think it impedes on separation of powers and the independence of the judiciary. Um but there are certainly others that have crossed the line and I you know ironically I think President Trump now President Trump certainly falls into that category with some of the statements that he's made.
▶ 0:33:31I I think the with respect to Judge Boseberg who's a practicing here in the District of Columbia or he's sitting here in the District of Columbia, calling him a troublemaker and an agitator, calling him a crooked judge that he should be impeached, I I thought was totally inappropriate and over the line. Talking about judges as lunatics is another one that I think is um bad.
▶ 0:33:55And then with respect to Judge Chudkin who was sitting in one of his uh criminal cases um he said uh this judge is the most evil person um during the dependency of that case. And I I just don't think that's the kind of language that we should be projecting um into the public especially in these times because we know these are polarized times politically. I know people have strong views out there about what's happening.
▶ 0:34:25I have strong views, too. But I think it's important for us to not cross that line and say things that we think or should think uh could generate some sort of a violent response. Um and then from a legal and constitutional standpoint, the independence of the judiciary, I think that's critical, too. Um I've got seven House Republican colleagues who filed articles of impeachment against sitting judges. One of the judges I mentioned a moment ago is one of those seven.
▶ 0:34:54No showing or even allegation of wrongdoing, particularly just disagreement with the the rulings that they issued in those particular cases that happened to involve uh the Trump administration. And I, you know, they certainly have a right to their own views, but I again I think it's important for us, not so much because that might create an issue of violence, but just respect for the Constitution and what it should mean uh to when you start talking about impeaching judges, that's a big step.
▶ 0:35:23And I think uh you know to my colleagues here and beyond, we should be very sensitive about making those kinds of statements and crossing those lines. When I was a staffer here uh in the late 80s, we impeached two um and u they clearly crossed the lines with respect to bribery for example uh and I thought impeachment was clearly merited there because under the standard set by the constitution they broke that uh and they broke the trust of the American people.
▶ 0:35:53But throwing that term around issuing argue articles of impeachment kind of willy-nilly is beneath what this institution should be doing. So, thank you so much for the work that you all are doing. I I know these are going to be challenging times with respect to seeking the increases that you're seeking. Uh I I share the need for the increase for uh federal public defenders having practiced and I've been on both sides of that.
▶ 0:36:20Um, it's critical to make sure we've got enough people there to handle the workload that's coming through. That workload certainly in the District of Columbia is increasing and we need to make sure that we're up to the task on that front and making sure that people have a chance to get equal justice. So, thank you for the work that you do. I appreciate your testimony and I yield back. Gentleman's time is expired. I I now recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, my friend, Representative Edwards, for five minutes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:36:48Uh, Judge Conrad, with over 800 federally owned or leased court facilities, the judiciary is one of GSA's three largest tenants. Uh, how have organizational changes in the GSA affected the facilities of the federal uh have an ongoing relationship with the GSA both in terms of courthouse construction and and maintenance.
▶ 0:37:17We have uh historically asked for more than they can deliver with respect to to their funding. I mentioned the Puerto Rico uh emergency uh situation where the courthouse is outdated, unsafe uh and built on a seismic fault line in a district where there's a very high value violent crime uh case load.
▶ 0:37:41And so, um, there's ongoing efforts at doing things efficiently, uh, but, um, the, um, ability to maintain our courts and particularly our older courts is is in good times stress, but in these times, uh, a real challenge for us. And so, I met recently with the public building uh, commissioner. Uh, we have ongoing uh, dialogue uh, with the GSA.
▶ 0:38:09We we've actually in light of some recent developments had the ability to hire some really competent GSA people who turned out looking uh for jobs and they've come with us and bring with them a real knowledge of how things work on on the other side and enable us to to communicate better. I I recognize that uh 10 federal courouses appeared on the now redacted list of noncore federal facilities released by the GSA.
▶ 0:38:39Six cour houses currently appear on GSA's list of assets identified for accelerated disposition. How frequently does the judiciary dispose of properties from the real estate portfolios? We we have a space and facilities committee of the judicial conference that that uh looks at this uh question with some degree of intensity. I can speak uh from the district that you come from in the western district of North Carolina.
▶ 0:39:09Uh we years ago had five federal courouses. We now have three. And uh and so that's an ongoing uh examination um by our branch and um case load changes, population changes are all taken into consideration. uh resident or non-resident uh judges in courouses impact the decision whether to close a courthouse or not.
▶ 0:39:36I've had three conversations this week with different judges across the country who are actively considering uh whether to close down a court house or keep it open. So I think um with our budget requests, we're uh also acting responsibly to try to contain our courthouse footprint and ask you for funding only when it's absolutely necessary.
▶ 0:40:03Does the judiciary currently own or lease any court room or office space that's not currently occupied or in use? I don't have on the uh top of my head uh the number of you're asking about non-resident judge courouses. any any any uh federal courthouse or office.
▶ 0:40:27There are districts that have um courouses where judges travel from one courthouse to another to serve the needs of a different division. I don't have the exact number of those courouses. Uh final question is when preparing for hearings like this one, I typically find inspector general reports to be a really good resource for information on how agencies can improve their performance.
▶ 0:40:53And u I really was intrigued to learn that while the Department of Justice has an inspector general, the federal judiciary does not. And I was just curious to know your thoughts on uh why or why not should the federal judiciary have an inspector general.
▶ 0:41:15We uh we are a a a separate and independent branch of government that is decentralized in its uh in its structure and we uh we don't have a single inspector general audit. We have uh approximately a hundred audits uh that go on every year from the various district courts uh across the country.
▶ 0:41:37We have a audit uh committee uh our governance is through the judicial conference as you know and we have 25 different judicial conference committees made up of volunteer judges and uh others uh who create policy for us, conduct audits.
▶ 0:41:56uh we have access to uh CPA firms that conduct audits for us and and our belief is that uh we're very uh responsible in the u use of the funds that you give us and that we're very careful with our judicial conference audit committee with our budget committee and the other structure that we have in place uh that although we don't have a single uh IG audit that you speak of we have the information
▶ 0:42:27uh necessary to tell you where the money is spent and how we're using it. Thank you. I appreciate your time, Mr. Thank you. The chair now recognizes a gentleman from Texas, Mr. Cloud, for any questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both for being here. Thank you for the work you do uh in our allimportant judiciary. Um I I had a couple questions I wanted to bring up. one I I read through the strategic plan and my understanding is those come out every five years.
▶ 0:42:56So we should be expecting another one this year. Is that correct? Yes. Uh about when could we expect that? We uh uh have spent uh time at the the last two judicial conferences uh getting out the strategic plan uh to the committee responsible for it to the other conference committees that have input in it. Is there a time I'm sorry work in process and I have a lot of stuff to go through.
▶ 0:43:23So is there a date that we can roughly I'm not the next judicial conference is in October of 2025. Okay. So we is that when we would expect the report shortly thereafter possible that it would be produced at that time. Okay. Um you had mentioned Judge Conrad in your statement the importance uh of us protecting judges against hurt or threats of impeachment. I think it's dangerous to combine those two in the same sentence.
▶ 0:43:51Against her, yes, we should definitely protect them, but that would be like you telling me that I should not be worried about what the people will think who elected me. Uh impeachment is a constitutional role to hold the judiciary accountable. Uh and certainly, you know, Congress created these courts with the exception of the Supreme Court and that is our mechanism to deal with with the legal system that's gone wayward.
▶ 0:44:17So, we want to do everything we can to protect the judges and anyone involved in the legal process, but I I think it's it's a dangerous ground to say that. And I was actually disappointed by this uh chief justice when he came out with everything going on in the judiciary right now. For to come out and and take issue with the president uh when there's a lot of work to be done within the judiciary uh is very concerning.
▶ 0:44:44Now, one one of the big issues and the second one in the strategic plan, which I certainly appreciate, was uh preserving public trust, confidence, and understanding. Um, and it talked basically about the need to educate the public about everything that's going on. Now, a lot's happened in five years, and we've seen a of what some would say is lawfare. I certainly would agree with that. I think a number of Americans do.
▶ 0:45:10Um, and I'm wondering what you will do as we approach the uh next strategic plan to deal with these sort of things where we see lawyers who represent President Trump disbarred and threatened uh just for representing him in some cases and then we see those prosecuting President Trump basically given a free pass.
▶ 0:45:34and and so you could go down the long list of of of bad practices uh that has happened. But um you know from from Jack Smith to Fanny Willis was disqualified from the case and Nathan Way from his case but none of them neither of them have faced Um Alvin Bragg turned a misdemeanor into invented law basically in in order to bring indictments.
▶ 0:46:02He has not been referred to for disembar disbarment. Uh Leticia James has been basically in in under investigation for the very thing she accused President Trump of and uh at least Stefonic and others have called for her to be disbarred. It's not been referred, you know. So we we see a duplicity here and that's where we're getting a lot of the mistrust that the Americans have in the judiciary right now.
▶ 0:46:31I'm wondering what your strategic plan will do to address those concerns. I'd like to go back to your uh first comment work from there where you identified that in my opening remarks I had referred to the physical security of of judges in impeachment in in the in the same uh phrase or sentence and your point's a fair one and I and I I take it u thank you sir as a clarification from the independent judiciary's
▶ 0:47:02u perspective uh They do represent two harms. Uh the first harm is to judges and their family members uh who um who are have been uh threatened either by intimidation or u actual physical violence that last several years the marshals have have uh we've we've met with the Supreme Court and the administrative judge and we've discussed this.
▶ 0:47:32you know, I I don't think there's debate across the aisle as to whether or not we should protect judges, at least hopefully in this chamber. Um, and then my my concern is what are we going to do to restore trust in the American people in a judicial process that seems very Uh, for example, district judges who think that they can impose executive mandates. I mean, you go read Federalist 78 and it's very clear the judiciary will have no force or will over the purse or the sword.
▶ 0:48:00And yet we have a number of judicial judges who seem to think that they've been elected president. Um and our system for 250 years has has functioned uh with u one branch having the sword, one branch having the purse and and third branch being supposedly the least dangerous of the branches. Um there is disagreement um strong disagreement passionate disagreement with the rulings of of district court judges.
▶ 0:48:30Uh our tradition of of of justice has been uh to challenge those rulings to appeal them and to get the the ruling that you think as a litigant you're entitled to. It has. The question was was what were you going to do in the strategic plan? And my time's up. chairman. But thank you. That's the journal recognizes the gentle woman from Iowa, Miss Hinson, for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh good morning.
▶ 0:48:58Um thank you so much, Judges Conrad and Sen for being with us today and answering our questions. Um in my district in uh northeast Iowa. We are home to the uh northern district of Iowa for the US District Court. And uh we are very blessed to have the leadership of our chief judge CJ Williams um and the strong presence of uh the court in our community. So, um, I just want to say thank you to the the great people who work in our federal courthouse. My office also happens to be in the building, so uh, we get to see them on a regular basis.
▶ 0:49:24Um, and I know how committed our officials are to really protecting the integrity of their operations. And I do want to make sure that they have the tools necessary to respond to the evolving threats that we're seeing. Um, and um, and I'm running back and forth between the Homeland Security subcommittee meeting and this one. And so I just want to go to kind of an issue that kind of ties into both. Um I also serve on the select committee on the Chinese Communist Party and I remain deeply concerned about the state sponsored cyber attacks and threats that we've seen coming out of the CCP.
▶ 0:49:53Um this really affects uh all branches of the federal government including the judiciary. So uh we've seen how those actors with the PRC are really targeting our uh federal networks, the critical infrastructure there and even attempting to exploit many of those vulnerabilities uh within our uh judicial institutions.
▶ 0:50:10So um given this threat landscape that we continue to see from the PRC, what specific steps are being taken to ensure that the judiciary's IT systems and applications are protected from these attacks from foreign adversaries and is there a higher level of coordination happening with CISA with the marshals uh uh other federal agencies to ensure that um these systems are safe and secure? Uh yes, thank you.
▶ 0:50:36The cyber security has been a priority of the judiciary especially since 2000 since 2021. We have an IT committee that focuses on this and yes we are coordinating with CISA. Uh we've gotten input from them on our systems. We've coordinated with the director of cyber security. We have a five-year plan that we started in 2022 with this committee.
▶ 0:51:04We sub submitted a five-year funding plan for cyber security and IT modernization. On the security side, we've implemented a lot of changes including zero trust architecture, multiffactor identification. So, you can't a judge or a staff member can't sign in at their desktop or remotely without dual authentication. Now, that's one of the standards we've been recommended to put in place.
▶ 0:51:32We're also putting a great effort forward to modernize our equipment. It's some of it's obsolete and because it's so old, it's really at a security risk. So by modernizing our equipment, we are prioritizing security with that new equipment and with that just comes increased security procedures.
▶ 0:51:54So, we thank this subcommittee because a couple years ago, we had a cyber debriefing and we talked about a five-year plan and we put a five-year funding plan in place and it's important that we continue to get that money and we have been putting it to good use. Yeah. Well, I would love to get some more details on some of the other things that you've put into place. Um, just kind of an accounting of that so far. Um, so a five-year plan obviously kind of then up in 2027 to kind of look at maybe next steps there.
▶ 0:52:21just want to make sure that we're keeping uh keeping pace with what we need to keep up with that threat to do that. Yeah. So, I appreciate that maybe on followup and then one quick question as my time is coming into end. Um you know, when I look at a rural state like like mine here in or in Iowa, uh we know that there can be some some barriers to accessing federal courts, we know you mentioned judges that are going back and forth. I I had um a lunch with the chief judge a few weeks ago to talk through some of those concerns, especially as the the case loads continue to grow.
▶ 0:52:49U so what are some of the challenges that courts are facing in in managing this demand and how critical is it that uh we have the adequate number of judgeships uh to meet those growing case loads. So thank you for that question because I do think um there is a need uh that we proved last year for uh more judges and hope to uh use a momentum that we established uh with the Senate and the House last year in terms of uh all uh entities
▶ 0:53:19agreeing with respect to that that need. We have uh a judges bill that is currently um in the house right now. Our uh judicial conference has recommended uh 69 new district court judge positions and two appellet court positions.
▶ 0:53:40And uh those are are based on uh a a very uh careful study of the 94 districts in the country and the places where judgeships are most needed and and so that is an area where we could uh benefit tremendously if if the positions were created. I think it's the judges act. So yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate uh you testifying today and I think I'll stay tuned for round two. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:54:09Uh thank you Miss Sinson and chair now recognize the gentleman from Maryland Mr. Hoyer. I want to thank the chairman member. Thank you very much. Uh I don't have any questions but I do want to make an observation uh Mr.
▶ 0:54:23Cloud's uh Um, I've been here a long time, but in the history of the country, I do not think we've had well, let me in in recent times, we have not had the challenge to the Congress's authority as we've seen in this administration. There are judges, including the Supreme Court, uh, who concluded on a TTRO basis or temporary basis.
▶ 0:54:53I don't know of a final decision but that the administration is not following the law. Mr. Cloud observes that the district court judges are somehow acrewing to themselves executive authority. Uh I I differ with the gentleman. What they are saying is it in their judgment the executive does not have the authority that they're exercising. That is what checks and balances means. That is the essence of our democracy.
▶ 0:55:22That is the essence of how one branch checks the other branch. And I want to make it very clear that uh the the disdain that is directed at judges for saying that the executive department is not acting consistent with the law and with the separation of powers is not acrewing to itself executive authority.
▶ 0:55:50It is doing its job of asserting what the balance correct balance under law and under the constitution is between the three branches of government. Uh and uh I for one would hope that judges would continue to do that and very frankly I've been upset with judges in the past as as we all get upset we because we disagree with them. That's our democracy. We disagree.
▶ 0:56:16Uh, I've disagreed strongly with the Supreme Court, but I've never suggested that therefore one of them be removed or a group of them be removed because of decisions that I didn't like. We have a structure to do that. We have constitutional amendments which are very difficult. We have statutory law which is not nearly as difficult. uh and we have uh elections for presidents in Congress uh to change policy.
▶ 0:56:46But I want to make that observation, Mr. Chairman, because I think the the the assertion that somehow judges are acrewing to themselves authority which they do not have is inaccurate. Thank you. And I'm gonna go back to my other hearing now, Mr. Act Thank you, Mr. Hoyer. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York and the vice chair of this committee, Mr. Loa, for any questions he may have in five minutes. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 0:57:16Before I get to my questions, I'm going to yield a minute of my time to Mr. Cloud. Thank you. I'll keep this really brief. Uh, I appreciate Mr. Hoyer's thoughts. I would point to the Biden administration who uh willfully did not listen to the Supreme Court when it came to student loan programs, among other things. The district judge's jurisdiction is in the title itself.
▶ 0:57:36it's a district judge and the idea that they can have these federal uh injunctions that that limit the president's executive authority that's clearly clearly given to him in the constitution is well beyond the the constitution and should be dealt with by this congress including impeachment. Thank you. Uh Judge Tene, how are you? Good. Thank you. Thanks for being with us today.
▶ 0:58:01You mentioned earlier the uh increased prosecutions tied to immigration crimes, including illegal re-entry and cartel related trafficking. Uh your honor, do you believe we need more immigration judges in this country? We probably do. I that's outside of article 3 and outside of my specialty. Um, I get appeals from the board of immigration after they've gone through immigration judges.
▶ 0:58:30But in terms of our our budget, that is outside of my expertise. 23 years on the bench. 23 years on the district courts. You're now a circuit court of appeals uh judge. Uh, pretty prestigious. Must come with a ton of experience. Just as a matter of judicial efficiency, supply and demand concepts, a lot of immigration court cases coming before our courts. Would we be able to dispense with them more expediently if we had more judicial staff? Yes.
▶ 0:59:00What I see in in appeals is they get backed up because of the volume going through immigration. So yes, um, from a pure standpoint, more immigration judges would be able to help process the immigration proceedings. And based on your 23 years experience on the federal bench, what's the consequence of judicial inefficiency, specifically with respect to not being able to dispense with some of these immigration cases? It clogs up the system.
▶ 0:59:30the delay. You see some things that take years to complete that backs up everything behind them. So, and it's expensive. Sure. So, let's talk about asylum for a moment. My understanding is roughly three of every four asylum claims are adjudicated in the petitioners against the petitioner's request. That three or four don't qualify for traditional asylum. And yet, the standard of this country has been at least under the Biden administration.
▶ 0:59:58When somebody claims asylum at the border, Biden parrolled them to the interior of the country pending their immigration case, it takes years often for that case to be heard. So, isn't it a consequence of a judicial inefficiency? Those years that it takes to get to those cases, these folks, three or four who don't ordinarily qualify for this, isn't the consequence you have a bunch of folks in this country who are not really here under the authorities traditionally granted under asylum?
▶ 1:00:27It's hard for me to generalize like that and say it's because of judicial inefficiency. I don't know. Some of the appeals that I see there are lots of extensions requested by the lawyers. There are extensions requested while you're waiting to get a lawyer. So, I think it's hard to make a general statement that everything could be blamed on judicial inefficiency.
▶ 1:00:48I'm surely not blaming everything on it, but I I would posit that you have a lot of folks in this country who feigned asylum on their way in and took advantage of the system that was laid out to them. Probably not fault of their own. The door was wide open. They got parrolled into the interior country. A lot of them found their way to New York where they got the free hotels and the healthcare and it was an incentive to get there.
▶ 1:01:08What I'm offering is if we had a quicker judicial system, more more judges to dispense with these cases, we can get to the point of the game where okay, you don't qualify for asylum now, you got to go back home. So my question, your honor, is what is the judiciary doing to get to a proper staffing? So for staffing for us and again immigration is not within the budget request that I'm here testifying about today.
▶ 1:01:34But in terms of staffing, we have work measurement formulas based upon real statistics of what our case load is. And the staffing we request that's in our salaries and expenses account is based upon those work measurement formulas and what our anticipated workload is. and what the anticipated case load is and that's what we base our budget on in our request. Great.
▶ 1:02:00Real quickly with a few seconds I have remaining with respect to the border district courts, are they getting the the judges and the staffing they need or are we stretching existing personnel too thin? We are definitely stretching existing personnel too thin. And I think in addition to the staff, the court staff and the staff in the clerk's offices, there's probation at pre-trial.
▶ 1:02:23And at the border states, when you have a lot of defendants who are coming through, that really stretches the resources of the pre-trial services officers and the probation officers. Thank you, Ronnie. Your feedback is valuable to us. We appreciate it. I yield. Thank you, Congressman. Thank you very much. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Alfred for any questions he may have. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Uh, good to have our witnesses here. Appreciate your time uh for coming here.
▶ 1:02:52Um, justices today face unprecedented threats to their personal safety. In an era of social media, mobs who disagree with legal interpretation share personal identifiable information on social media. These online mobs encourage violence against judges and will dox their home addresses, familiar information, and anything else they can get their grubby little hands on.
▶ 1:03:20Judge Conrad, how does the judiciary's threat management branch help remove this information from the public domain? And what can Congress do to ensure the safety of folks like you? So, for a number of years, uh, we've been active in in trying to get the Daniel Andrew U. Is your mic on, sir? Would you please start over?
▶ 1:03:46For a number of years, we've been very active uh, pursuant to Daniel Andrew bill and other efforts at at getting both uh, in state courts and across the country that personal identification information offline. And uh we have encouraged judges to sign up for delete me type protections where where um the internet is scrubbed for personal identification information.
▶ 1:04:13And over 80% or near 80% of our judges are are uh engaged in in those kind of uh efforts. What do we need to do to get all of them involved in those efforts? But we do uh at every uh judicial conference uh across the country, we have a component uh that deals with uh judicial security and encourage uh best practices with respect to our judges.
▶ 1:04:43Just over a month ago, a California man pleaded guilty to attempted murder of uh Justice Brett Kavanagh three years ago. He was arrested outside the justice's residence with a gun, a knife, zip ties in the wake of Supreme Court's DOS decision. While I understand the Supreme Court handles their own threats, has the rest of the judiciary moved to strengthening security after potentially large decisions like that could sway action by mentally deranged people.
▶ 1:05:14And we have active coordination with United States Marshall Service and and try to surge uh resources to areas that we can anticipate uh problems. We have uh requested funding for courthouse hardening projects that will um provide security to to courouses and we have encouraged judges to um and supported them financially in obtaining home intrusion detection systems and and so we're pretty
▶ 1:05:44focused uh on on the home and the courthouse. Sometimes the the vulnerability is in between. How much money do you need from us to make sure that those programs get put in place that we protect our judiciary? Well, we are asking for for our court security million.
▶ 1:06:04That funds our court security officers, the vulnerability management program that Judge Conrad just mentioned, and it also funds updating security equipment in the courouses, and it's really needed for that last piece because that account has been frozen for the last two years. So, we've had to take money from that account that was intended to update our equipment to put new cameras in, new security measures in.
▶ 1:06:32We've had to take that money and use it to pay for the court security officers and the vulnerability management. It's called robbing Peter to pay Paul. What happens if we don't get this funded? That equipment will become more obsolete and increase security risks at courouses around the country. Mr.
▶ 1:06:54Chair, I I uh respectfully submit that we take a good close look at this and I know we will because u um this is a precious part of our government. We need to protect those who serve us through the judiciary. And with that, I yield back. Thank you, sir. Thank you for that observation. And the chair totally agrees with you. Uh the chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Edwards. More questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let's turn the conversation to technology.
▶ 1:07:24Um, something I think we don't spend nearly enough time talking about. And when I look at your budget request and and the historical spending, I see that the federal judiciary spends, let's call it about a million dollars a year, which doesn't seem like a whole lot of money, but I know that uh often money towards technology goes into a big old black hole.
▶ 1:07:49Uh, can you tell me a little bit about how that million dollars or so is is is being spent? How much of that is on maintenance? How much is on new software development? Uh, the portion on new software development, how do you know we're getting our money's worth out of it? I was an appropriator uh for uh technology back in North Carolina when I served in the Senate, and I know we invested tens of millions of dollars in new development.
▶ 1:08:19uh years later we'd run into a roadblock and realize we've uh we've wasted all the new development money that we had and we had to start over again. I'm just I'm just curious, are you finding those those those types of issues? So in when when it comes to the JIF uh funding, how is that being spent? What are your concerns? Okay. Um thank you for clarifying that, Congressman Edwards. If I understand you're asking in particular about our money into JITF.
▶ 1:08:49Let's start with that. Okay. And then tell me if there's something else that I'm not looking at as opposed to some of our cyber security efforts and the the separate from cyber. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. So our systems are becoming obsolete and for years we did not put money into it. Common story. Yes. Yeah.
▶ 1:09:11I for a long time people thought it was the you know oh I need my printer fixed and it's changed dramatically but for years and because we try to be good stewards of the money we put our priority elsewhere and as a result of that we lost people in IT and our systems have become obsolete so the money that goes to our IT account is going really to rebuild those systems and
▶ 1:09:41to modernize them. And along with that modernization comes security. Part of that money goes to bringing on and keeping IT personnel, which is, as you probably know, very hard to do because a lot of IT personnel can earn a lot of money if they go outside of the government. And so trying to to keep those people is very important to us.
▶ 1:10:07But we've really depleted our IT to a to a large extent in terms of personnel and we've been trying to increase that because it's essential to keeping our systems secure and modern. I will uh m Mr. Chair, I'm going to submit some written questions. I'd like to understand more about the investment in IT and where you see the future. But uh let's let's shift to AI now.
▶ 1:10:35uh where does artificial intelligence fall into the overall platform or or plans for the federal judiciary? So, the director and and maybe I'll let you answer this has put together an AI task force recently and uh it's directed both at the uh ways in which AI can be of benefit to the justice system and in ways to prevent it from uh being uh destructive
▶ 1:11:06and and so um the task force consists of uh gifted people across the identifying the AI issues uh uh that we deal with now and and hopefully anticipating them in the future. That task force has been recently uh comprised and we look forward to learning a lot through it.
▶ 1:11:33Will you be sharing the results of uh that that task force with this committee? Be glad to. Yes, sir. That'll be one that that'll be one of my requests in my follow up. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, sir. Uh, Mr. Alfred is good with his questions and, uh, I appreciate your time here today. With that, I know this has been very engaging and fun for you.
▶ 1:12:00Uh, and our time has concluded, but I'd like to thank you both, uh, for being here today. I know, as uh, Mr. Edwards has indicated, there may be members who would like to submit questions for the record. I ask that he submit those records for the subcommittee staff within the next seven days. And with that, this subcommittee stands