▶ 0:14:44Good afternoon. The subcommittee will come to order today. Today, the subcommittee will receive testimony from the Honorable John Failen, Secretary of the Navy, Admiral Johns James Kilby, acting chief of naval operations, and General General Eric Smith, the comedant of the United States Marine Corps. Uh, Mr. Secretary, congratulations on your appointment. We've already had several productive engagements, and I look forward to continuing to work with you. Uh, Admiral Kelby, General Smith, thank you for joining us today.
▶ 0:15:12We greatly appreciate your service. Today we meet at a time of increasing global instability. The Navy and Marine Corps are under extraordinary operational demand, responding to threats across every domain. For the past 19 months, naval forces have engaged daily combat operations in the Red Sea to protect international shipping from Iranianbacked Hoodi attacks.
▶ 0:15:36These actions underscore the critical role our fleet plays in maintaining freedom of navigation and the security of global commerce. At the same time, we face a rising nearpeer challenge in the Indo-Pacific. China continues to build the world's largest navy, surpassing US Navy in both ship count and ship building capability. China is on pace to surpass the United States Navy in firepower in the coming years. Already today, the Chinese far outnumber us in hypersonic weapons.
▶ 0:16:06In any potential conflict with China, the Navy will be the lynch pin of our ability to protect and project power across the vast Indo-Pacific region. The sheer scale of that theater demands a capable and ready fleet, and I remain deeply concerned that we are not building or sustaining our naval forces at the pace required to meet that challenge.
▶ 0:16:27Years of delay, cost overruns, workforce challenges have slowed production across critical ship building programs, including the Virginia and Columbia class submarines, Ford class aircraft carriers, and the constellation class frigots. At the same time, the demand for capable survivable platforms is only increasing. Delays in construction of the lead Colombia class submarine presents a significant risk to strategic deterrence.
▶ 0:16:54I understand that the delivery schedule continues to slip since the 45day ship building review that was completed last spring and the Colombia program is now looking at a 18 to 24month delay in delivering the lead ship. How does this happen to the Navy's priority program? Further, I fear the delays in the Virginia class program will only be compounded by delays in Colombia class submarine construction.
▶ 0:17:19The Virginia class program continues to hoover at the construction cadence of 1.2 submarines a year versus a necessary cadence of two per year. Congress has invested significantly in the submarine industrial base. I want to know when these investments will prove out. While my optimism is waning, I'm hopeful that the recent award of funding for wage and productivity enhancements at the prime shipyards will help turn the tide.
▶ 0:17:47Ship maintenance and repair is another significant problem. Too many ships are stuck in yards too long, impacting readiness and deployment schedules. The Navy continues to face serious challenges in sustaining fleet readiness due to persistent maintenance delays across both public and private shipyards. A shortage of skilled labor, aging infrastructure, and inconsistent planning are undermining our ability to execute timely and maintenance availability.
▶ 0:18:14The problem carries operational consequences that are immediate and strategic. Delays ripple through deployment schedules, degrade crew morale, strain already overtask platforms. These readiness shortfalls directly impact the Navy and the Marine Corps's ability to respond to global crisis and surge forces where needed. Without decisive improvements in maintenance execution, we risk building a fleet on paper that cannot meet operational demands in practice.
▶ 0:18:42This brings me to the Navy's requirement around amphibious warfare ships. While the Navy is required to maintain a fleet of at least 31 amphibs, the current state of the fleet raises serious doubts about whether that requirement is being met in an operationally credible way.
▶ 0:18:59Aging halls, maintenance delays, and lack of sustained investment have eroded the operational availability of our amphibious feet fleet putting real pressure on the Marine Corps ability to train, deploy, and respond globally. Amphibious ships are not operational assets. They are central to our ability to project power, reassure our allies, and deter adversaries.
▶ 0:19:23The committee expects a plan not just to meet the letter of the law, but to ensure that the amphibious fleet is truly capable and ready. We must get ship building back on track, strengthen the industrial base that supports it. That includes looking to expand international cooperation, particularly with close partners like Japan, South Korea, who are developing advanced naval technologies, regional ship building expertise that may present a collaborative opportunity.
▶ 0:19:51We need to create solutions to increase output throughput, expand capacity, and leverage private sector partnerships where possible. Now, I've questioned the Navy's future investment in aircraft carriers, and I think we've seen a valuable discussion as a result. We shouldn't be afraid to have these debates, but I want to be clear today.
▶ 0:20:14The aircraft carrier serves a critical role in power projection and will most certainly continue to provide the joint force with extraordinary strike warfare and unrivaled air superiority as we enter the Davidson window and beyond. That said, we cannot effectively operate carriers without aircraft. I'm alarmed by the downward trend in Navy's procurement in strike fighter aircraft over the last several years.
▶ 0:20:41Today, the Navy faces a growing shortfall in strike fighter aircraft as our carriers sustain a grueling and intense operating tempo in the Red Sea and around the globe. Admiral Pomparo, the Indo-Pacific commander, recently testified that China is out producing the US and advanced fighters and is now positioned for the first time to surpass the United States and air superiority in the Pacific. I will not my parse my words here. We need sixth generation fighters.
▶ 0:21:11The US Navy needs sixth generation fighters. I'm concerned that any hesit hesitency on our part to proceed with a planned procurement of the sixth gen fighters for the Navy will leave us dangerously outmatched in a China fight. We cannot wait. Further, we cannot expect to grow the defense industrial base by undermining it. Aviation programs that rely on highly specialized supply chains and skilled labor cannot be turned on and off like a switch.
▶ 0:21:41If we continue sending mixed signals through delayed buys, program instability, or shifting requirements, we risk hollowing out the very industrial base we need for future readiness. We must treat this sector as a strategic asset, not as an afterthought. Over the past year, the Navy has operated under intense and sustained combat conditions in the Red Sea. The most active maritime conflict zone in a generation.
▶ 0:22:09Daily missile and drone engagements against Iranianbacked Houthi forces have turned theoretical warf fighting concepts into real life execution under fire. These operations are yielding invaluable insights into missile defense, unmanned system integration, and command and control in a high threat environment. But this persistent operational tempo comes at a cost. Ships and crews are being pushed hard. Deployments are being extended.
▶ 0:22:38And readiness for other global contingencies are being strained. The Navy must balance the urgency of today's fight with the imperative to reset, repair, and prepare for tomorrow's challenges. We look forward to hearing how this experience is informing tactical development, force posture, long-term fleet health.
▶ 0:22:58The conflict in Ukraine continues to demonstrate how lowcost autonomous systems, especially drones, can deliver outsized battlefield effect against far more expensive platforms. These conflicts are reshaping understanding of warfare where speed, scale, and adaptability often outweigh traditional measures of strength. Our ability to capitalize on these emerging technologies will depend on how effectively we partner with the private sector.
▶ 0:23:27Many of the tools we need, artificial intelligence, autonomy, and edge computing, are being developed outside the traditional defense environment. To keep pace with the rapidly evolving threat environment, the Navy must do more than experiment. It must reduce barriers to entry for commercial innovation and field successful concept quickly and at scale. I look forward to continue to partner with you on supporting and promoting innovation.
▶ 0:23:55Over the last several years, the Marine Corps has undergone a significant transformation. The shift to a lighter, more agile, and distributed force capable of operating inside contested maritime space is both bold and necessary. As the Marine Corps pursues new capabilities to support force design, it is essential that its acquisition programs are grounded in rigorous analysis and supported by wholesome validated requirements to ensure systems are relevant and sustainable and delivered on time.
▶ 0:24:25The future of the Marine Corps depends on getting this right and we're committed to providing the resources and the oversight to make that happen. Before we hear from our witnesses, I'd like to recognize the distinguished ranking member, Miss McCullum, for any opening comments. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Secretary, Admiral Kilby, this is your first time appearing before the committee. Welcome. Uh look forward to working with both of you.
▶ 0:24:50General Smith, it's a pleasure to see you again and congratulations on a secondyear clean audit. Go Marines. The Marine Corps continues to be the premier example to the rest of the services for responsible budgeting and I thank you and my constituents thank you for that. As I said in our hearings last week, fiscal year 2026 budget process is off to a very rough start. We just have over four months left until the end of 2025.
▶ 0:25:19To date, only the skinny budget for the next year has been released. And there's rumors that the full budget may not be released until June. And that's why we have not been able to discuss uh with any of the services of budget priorities in detail. And that's going to be true for this hearing unfortunately as well. It's disappointing because the Department of the Navy programs face long delays and other setbacks.
▶ 0:25:44um and our committee um must have a better understanding of your F26 priorities. I hope that each of you will reach out to the chair, myself, and to all the members of this committee as soon as details are released. Mr. Secretary, I continue to be concerned about the ability of the Navy and the industry to provide ships and submarines we purchase on time on budget. And this is something the chair and I, as you heard from his statement, totally agree on.
▶ 0:26:12This has been a challenge for several years and now the responsibility has fallen to you. We cannot continue to pay for vessels that cost one amount at the start of construction and end up costing dramatically more later this year. I appreciate addressing both of the delays and the reinvigorating of the marine time uh maritime industrial base. Um that was a focus during your Senate confirmation hearings. You spoke directly to this and I appreciate that.
▶ 0:26:41So, I look forward to working with you to ensure that the industry and the government can find solutions to get back on track. I was also pleased to hear during your confirmation hearings that you prioritize the health and safety of our sailors and marines under your watch. Extended employments can not only hurt the sailor or the marine, but can also have the possibility of harming their families.
▶ 0:27:03Part of the reason for these extended deployments are the delays at the maintenance facility yards in getting our subs and our service vessels in and out of the water. And that too needs to be addressed. In last week's hearing with the Army, we discussed the Army's transformative in um innovate in Excuse me, I've got a catch in my throat. We discussed the Army's transformative innovation.
▶ 0:27:27Part of the in uh initiative is that the army's decision to end the joint light tactical vehicle program. I have to say I was dismayed when the army made this decision and did not consult with the Marines. That is beyond disappointing. Joint means joint. That's what the J stands for. Joint decisions should be informed together as part of joint programs if they need to change.
▶ 0:27:56So, I look forward to working with you, General Smith, in determining the next steps for this vehicle, which your Marines rely upon. And finally, as I said, when the Air Force and the Army were before us, I'm alarmed at the number and the matter in which the department has decided to implement cuts of civilian personnel. Public shipyards are personal concern to me. Losing shipyard workers with experience, and failing to replace them will only lengthen the problems we are now seeing at these shipyards. delays will worsen.
▶ 0:28:26Maintenance schedules will not be executed on time. So, Mr. Secretary, I'd like to hear from you how you will address these personnel cuts in relationship to the public yards. These cuts will also affect the execution of contracts and other vital paperwork. We are already living with the impacts of what happens when civilians take a buyout and stop working on contracts. The contract isn't signed. The mission doesn't get done, and the program falls behind. and it costs the taxpayers more money.
▶ 0:28:57I'm also concerned that these cuts will shift responsibility of completing these tasks to the same military personnel that you would like to see most at work, at sea, or on the training field. So once again, I welcome you all to the committee and I look forward to hearing your testimony. Thank you for the courtesy, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Thank you. Now, I'd like to turn the chairman of the full committee, my good friend, Chairman Tom Cole. Thank you very much, Chairman Calbertt, Ranking Member McCullum.
▶ 0:29:23It's always a pleasure to be joined by the ranking member of the full committee, my good friend from Connecticut, Miss Deloro. Uh, and let me go off my script for a second and just say I I appreciate ranking member McCullum's remarks about the budget because she's spot on. We absolutely need it sooner. That's not your fault. I'm not directing that at either of the three of you, but uh this is one where OM needs to pick up the pace if we aren't going to have any chance of getting our work done on time. So, thank you my good friend from Minnesota for pointing that out.
▶ 0:29:54I want to welcome all three of you, Mr. Secretary. Uh delighted to have you confirmed and here with us for the first time. Admiral Kilby, General Smith, again, it's an honor to have both of you with us today. I want to extend my gratitude to uh you and your commendable and continuing service to our country and to the men and women in uniform that you collectively lead. Today, our Navy's mission has never been more consequential or expansive.
▶ 0:30:20From the contested waters of the Indo-Pacific to the turbulent Red Sea, our Navy and Marine Corps are on the front lines of deterring aggression, projecting power, and upholding the rules-based international order. We're all deeply grateful for the bravery and professionalism shown by our sailors and marines, especially those operating today in harm's way in the Middle East.
▶ 0:30:41The Navy's persistent operations in the Red Sea under extremely dangerous and demanding conditions, have prevented countless attacks on international shipping and ensured the continued flow of commerce. These missions have not come without cost and they are a stark reminder that our naval forces must be ready to respond decisively across the full spectrum of conflict.
▶ 0:31:03While we await the full details of the White House budget request for the Department of Defense, this hearing will serve as an opportunity to address a range of issues that face the Navy and the Marine Corps. One area of particular concern is the state of our ship building enterprise. We continue to see troubling delays in the delivery of key platforms including the Colombia class ballistic missile submarine, the Constellation class frigot and the Virginia class attack submarines.
▶ 0:31:31These delays not only impact operational readiness, but they also create a growing strategic risk at a time when China is expanding its fleet at an unprecedented pace. This is not a new concern. The Trump administration rightly recognized the importance of recapitalizing our fleet with its executive order aimed at revitalizing American ship building uh to a better position or to better position the force to achieve a 381 ship Navy.
▶ 0:31:59While that goal remains aspirational, it should continue to guide our efforts as we consider how to strengthen our industrial-based capacities, streamline procurement timelines, and demand greater accountability and program execution. We'll also want to hear more about the Navy's evolving posture in the Indo-Pacific, particularly in light of China's coercive actions near Taiwan, in the South China Sea, and beyond.
▶ 0:32:24Maintaining a forward, flexible presence in the region is essential to deterring conflict, and reassuring our allies and partners. The growth of unmanned systems, which my friend Chairman Calbertt referred to, on the surface, under sea, and in the air, is another area of intense interest. The department has made strides in experimentation and prototyping, but the path forward uh toward largecale integration remains unclear.
▶ 0:32:51We'll want to know how unmanned platforms are being incorporated into the fleet, what operational value they're expected to provide, and on what schedule they will be delivered. Turning to the Marine Corps, we appreciate the continued implementation of a force design 2030, which reflects a bold and forward-looking approach to modernizing the core for distributed operations in contested environments.
▶ 0:33:16We look forward to hearing from General Smith about how force design is progressing, what challenges remain, and how the core is adapting to lessons learned from the exercises and real world operations. Strategic deterrence is also a key focus of this hearing.
▶ 0:33:33In addition to its role as the steward of the sea-based leg of the nuclear triad, the Navy is also responsible for maintaining the Takamo mission, our survivable airborne communications link between national leadership and and nuclear forces.
▶ 0:33:48As the Navy moves forward with the recapitalization of this critical capability through the EX aircraft program, it's al it's essential that departments stay on track and avoid the cost and schedule issues that have plagued other major acquisitions. We are also aware of recent discussions about potentially transferring elements of the Takamo mission to the Air Force.
▶ 0:34:11His subcommittee will want to understand the rationale behind such a move, its impact on operational effectiveness, and what it could mean for program stability going forward. Of course, none of these platforms, strategies, or technologies matter without the people who bring them to life. Recruiting and retention remain pressing challenges across the force, although I know certain progress or progress has been made in recent months.
▶ 0:34:35Uh both the Navy and Marine Corps have had to grapple with difficult operational tempos, quality of life issues, and a competitive labor market. We will continue to support efforts to improve housing, family support programs, and health care of our service members. I want to close by thanking each of you again for being here and for your service. I also want to thank the dedicated men and women of your branches, unformed and civilian alike, who continue to operate in every corner of the world on behalf of the American people.
▶ 0:35:06We look forward to your testimony and a frank discussion about the challenges you face and resources you need to meet them. Again, thank you for being here today. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank the chairman, and I'd like to turn to the ranking member of the appropriations committee, Mr. Deloro, for any opening comments. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I thank you and ranking member McCullum and uh Chairman Cole uh for holding this hearing on the plans for the Department of Navy in the coming year.
▶ 0:35:32Uh I thank you to the witnesses, Secretary Failen, General Smith, and Admiral Kilby uh for your appearing before us uh today and for your dedicated service uh to our nation. You keep our nation safe. You keep our sailors and marines safe. You ensure that our allies are supported wherever democracy and freedom are threatened around the world. Today I look forward to learning about what the Navy is doing to get our ship building back on track, especially with regard to submarines.
▶ 0:36:01It is critical for our national security if the Navy returns to a regular production of two Virginia class submarines per year and that the Colombia class gets as close to schedule as possible. We need to understand how the administration plans to work with Congress to ensure that that happens. Our ability to deter and respond to threats around the globe is counting on it.
▶ 0:36:23I also am eager to hear more about how the Marine Corps will utilize the CH53K program, how it will evolve into the future. We must always work to ensure our service members have the best possible equipment to defend our nation and Americanmade Sakorski helicopters are the best in the world. I want to ensure the CH53 platform continues to serve as the backbone of the Marine Corps's heavy lift fleet. Additionally, I want to hear about what we're doing to modernize the Navy's workforce.
▶ 0:36:54I am very concerned to hear that the Department of the Navy will be losing about 16,000 civilian workers, including workers at our public shipyards. The Navy must work with the Congress and with our industry partners to ensure that we have a highly trained workforce that is ready to get the job done and respond to constantly evolving threats.
▶ 0:37:16And we all know that when you destroy the infrastructure um and and uh and hollow out um the agencies that we cannot bring that back uh and with the with how quickly we would need to do that. So we should not be in the business of destroying our infrastructure. Also pertaining to the workforce, it is deeply regrettable that the administration is choosing to inject culture war debates into the Department of Defense funding process.
▶ 0:37:44And I am concerned with how that may hurt further recruitment efforts, especially among women. We must do all that we can to ensure that any American who wants to bravely serve in the United States armed forces, defend our nation, feels that they belong. and that they are not going to be drawn into political warfare while confronting legitimate threats to freedom, to democracy and our national security. I thank you again all of you for being here today.
▶ 0:38:13Look forward to uh listening to you and I yield back. Mr. Chairman, I am going to dash to Homeland Security uh for a portion of that. We'll be we'll be back for questions. Thank you very much for your indulgence. Appreciate it. Thank you. Uh gentlemen, your uh full written testimony will be placed on the record. Uh please give brief summary of your statements. Secretary Failen, the floor is yours. Chairman Calbertt, Ranking Member McCullum, and distinguished members of the committee.
▶ 0:38:43I'm honored to appear before you alongside General Smith and Admiral Kilby to discuss the posture of the Department of the Navy. I'm grateful to President Trump for the trust he's placed in me to lead the nearly 1 million sailors, marines, and civilians who make up our maritime force. My northstar or number one priority as secretary is the readiness of our sailors and marines. I will lead this department with three focus areas that will guide our Navy and Marine Corps.
▶ 0:39:12Strengthen ship building and the maritime industrial base. Foster an adaptive, accountable, and innovative war fighter culture. improve the health, welfare, and training of our people. In my first 30 days as SECNAV, I visited the Indo-acific, the southern border, the Gulf of America, several of our installations, and eight public and private shipyards to see our operations and challenges firsthand.
▶ 0:39:40I look forward to sharing my observations with you today. The United States commands the most powerful maritime force in the world, but that dominance is under threat. China continues to expand its fleet, build more advanced submarines, and operate more provocatively and aggressively in contested waters. In the Red Sea, our war fighters are leading operation prosperity guarding, defending freedom of navigation. They're doing an excellent job.
▶ 0:40:08At Sentcom headquarters, I witnessed these operations and saw firsthand the professionalism and expertise of our forces operating in this area. Closer to home, our maritime forces are working with federal agencies to disrupt drug and human trafficking, helping to further secure our borders. On my second day in office, I visited the USS Gravely in the Gulf of America and flew surveillance missions with Patrol Squadron 26.
▶ 0:40:36While our forces remain steady, rebuilding our hollowedout maritime industrial base is a national security imperative as outlined in the Restoring America's maritime dominance executive order signed by President Trump on April 9th. Over the past month, I visited those eight shipyards across the nation's east coast and the Indo-Pacific. I spoke directly with shipyard leaders and the hardworking tradesmen essential to our maritime operations.
▶ 0:41:04I now have a clear picture of where our ship building dollars have been going and in developing a plan to fix what's broken. As the nation's first line of defense, the Navy and Marine Corps play an indispensable role in securing national interests and protecting our way of life. However, to truly strengthen our defense posture, we must first ensure that the Department of the Navy is accountable to the American taxpayer. Accountability is not just a regulatory requirement.
▶ 0:41:34It is the bedrock upon which we will build a stronger, more efficient Navy and Marine Corps. To instill an environment of adaptability in warfighting culture, we must first demonstrate sound business practices and financial discipline. Under my leadership, the Department of Navy will achieve a clean audit following the example set by the Marine Corps, which has completed two consecutive unmodified audits.
▶ 0:42:00We will leverage technology to drive smarter decision-making, adopting lean management practices to eliminate unnecessary overhead and building relationships with the private industry with private industry to access cutting edge solutions. As we confront the mounting challenges of ship building and warfighting readiness, it is clear that our greatest asset is the extraordinary men and women who serve our sailors and marines.
▶ 0:42:27We will continue to invest in recruiting, training, and retaining the highest caliber personnel. We will prioritize quality of life and quality of service initiatives to ensure that our sailors, marines, and their families have the resources available to succeed. During my travels, I visited a number of barracks. And although our new barracks are good, I was appalled by the condition of some of our older barracks.
▶ 0:42:53I will hold leadership and industry accountable until we deliver a stand the standard of living our service members deserve. As former president and assistant secretary of the Navy Theodore Roosevelt once told Congress, "A good Navy is not a provocation to war. It is the shest guarantee of peace." That guarantee begins with hard work.
▶ 0:43:14And I'm committed to putting in the effort our war fighters deserve while working alongside this committee to build and maintain a force strong enough to deter conflict and preserve peace. I'm honored to serve the nation and guide the world's greatest maritime force through these uncharted waters. Thank you for your support and I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I now recognize Admiral Kilby for your remarks.
▶ 0:43:41Chairman Calbertt, Ranking Member McCullum, Chairman Cole, Subcommittee members, thank you for the opportunity to testify on the priorities of the United States Navy. Your Navy provides the nation with sea power and sea control needed to preserve our way of life and ensure our security and prosperity. Your oversight and funding ensure we are ready when the nation calls.
▶ 0:44:06I'm pleased to testify alongside Secretary Felen who brings the needed and unique skill set and experience to help us accelerate the work of our Navy and alongside my partner General Smith, the comedon of the Marine Corps. In the past year, our sailors have defeated hundreds of drones and missiles and executed dozens of offensive strikes in the Red Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean. They have strengthened alliances and deterred Chinese aggression in the Western Pacific.
▶ 0:44:34They have supported operations on the southern border and they have maintained an unbroken strategic deterrent with our ballistic missile defense submarines. In short, our navy integrated with the joint force remains postured to ready and ready to fight and win. We remain committed to a strong global navy, one that is prepared to defend our homeland, deter our adversaries, and prevail in war. We are laser focused on China as our most consequential opponent.
▶ 0:45:04While strengthening defense of the homeland, we prioritize operations, training, and readiness accounts to ensure our naval forces remain ready, resilient, and agile to ex execute national tasking. The Navy and Marine Corps preserves peace through strength through investments in our strategic deterrence, our defense industrial base, and our installations via initiatives like the shipyard infrastructure optimization program.
▶ 0:45:32Most importantly, we are continuing to the strong commitment to our people, our sailors, our Navy families, and our civilians through payraises, investments in quality of service initiatives, and unaccompanied housing and child care. But we are facing some challenges. First, the Navy 23,200 gaps at sea. Thanks to process improvements and targeted investments, we are on plan to reduce that number significantly by the close of FY26.
▶ 0:46:00We are committed to attracting and developing Americans who can innovate, solve hard problems, and dominate in combat. The Navy contracted over 40,000 sailors last year, the most since 2003, and we are currently on pace to exceed our recruiting goal for FY25. Second, our ordinance expenditures in the Red Sea have highlighted the strain on our munitions industrial base. The Navy is working with both our traditional primes and new entrance to close this gap.
▶ 0:46:29developing kinetic and non-kinetic weapons at speed and at scale. And third, our platforms are not as ready as they need to be. We set an ambitious goal to make 80% of our ships, submarines, and aircraft combat surge ready by January 1st, 2027. To do that, we are reducing maintenance delays. We are improving manning, training, modernization, and sustainment. In all of these efforts, consistent and predictable funding is foundational.
▶ 0:46:57We appreciate the continued support of this committee. In closing, I'm proud of our Navy accomplishments in the last year and I'm excited about the growing consensus that is powering our maritime rejuvenation. The whole of government and whole of nation effort is essential to our security and prosperity. We have work to do to ensure that we remain the world's most premier maritime force for another 250 years.
▶ 0:47:24Your leadership and support are critical in achieving this imperative. On behalf of our sailors, civilians, and families around the world, I thank you. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Admiral. I now recognize General Smith for your Good afternoon, Chairman Calbert, Ranking Member McCollum, Chair Cole, Ranking Member Deluro.
▶ 0:47:48Ladies and gentlemen, it is an honor to appear before you today alongside Secretary Felin and Admiral Kilby, my shipmate. I'm here for you on behalf of your Marine Corps, and I look forward to answering your questions. First, I'd like to start by sharing the Marine Corps's top three priorities. First, restoring a 3.0 amphibious Ready Group Marine Expeditionary Unit presence. This is the Marine Corps's Northstar.
▶ 0:48:13That's one amphibious ready group constantly deployed off the east coast, one constantly deployed off the west coast, and one amphibious ready group episodically deployed out of the FDNF, the Ford deployed naval force in Japan. The amphibious ready group with Marines, Marine Expeditionary Unit embarked, is the most versatile tool in our nation's arsenal. It is the Swiss Army knife of the joint force, and we're working closely with our Navy partners to maximize this capability. Our second priority is accelerating force design.
▶ 0:48:41Force design is our righteous journey to adapt to the changing character of war. The nature of war remains the same, but the character changes. We are in the implementation phase. We're fielding new capabilities time now and reshaping formations across the force from our marine expeditionary units and marine latoral regiments to our marine expeditionary forces. And finally, improving quality of life. Every Marine deserves a clean, safe place to lay their head at night. They don't ask for much, but they do ask for that.
▶ 0:49:10Barracks 2030 is how we're getting after this. It is the most consequential housing investment in Marine Corps history. And quality of life goes beyond our barracks. We're also investing in the well-being of Marine families because retaining our Marines means supporting those who stand by them. We say you recruit the Marine, but you retain the family. I'll close with this. Your Marines remain the most ready when the nation is least ready. It's who we are. It's our foundation.
▶ 0:49:38a forward postured force trained for combat and built to deliver flexible lethal options anywhere anytime. Thank you again for your trust and support and I look forward to your questions. Thank you General. Um I'll first recognize myself for five minutes before we get into questions for both sides. Um obviously Mr. Secretary.
▶ 0:50:00Um the committee is continually concerned about uh the reported 18 to 24month delay in the Colombia class submarine program. As you know, the retirement timeline for the Ohio class boats is apparently, you know, I'm corrected on this, is non-negotiable due to the aging holes, which means any further delay in Colombia directly threatens our ability to meet Stratcom's minimum deterrent requirement.
▶ 0:50:29As you well know, the significant part of our nuclear deterrent is carried on the Colombia, well, will be carried on the Colombia uh Secretary Failen and maybe Admiral Kilby may want to come into this too.
▶ 0:50:43You can walk us through the uh primary drivers behind the additional 18 to 24month delay of the Columbia class submarine program and beyond the issues we've already seen whether supply chain disruptions, workforce shortages or integration challenges. U what what risks remain most concerning uh to you as we we look ahead? Uh thank you for the question.
▶ 0:51:10I know it's important issue to you and top priority for for myself and Admiral Kelby as well. Um I think it is a combination of a first of class ship uh still an inexperienced workforce. Uh it is supply chain issues. Um it is also a lack of modernization in in in some of this uh in some of the plants.
▶ 0:51:36Um, and I think honestly it's uh just sitting and going talking to the workers and ways of improving uh workflow. Uh, and so these are things that you I've met with the CEO of General Dynamics and Huntington Engles to talk about this and go through it. Uh, it was very interesting in some of their assessments of of of what they did not perceive to be his problems where when I went sat down with the workers I got completely the opposite.
▶ 0:52:04So uh let me just give you a couple of examples which might help uh you you understand and ways we think we can shift the schedule left. Um so in Japan I went to JMU. They get the productivity out of one eight hour shift that we get out of three shifts. Um I believe that's for two reasons. One, their average worker is 50 years old. It is a career. They spend time there. They've been in that shipyard a very long time.
▶ 0:52:34Two, when I spoke to the welders in Japan, uh they do no spend zero time on paperwork. Our welders spend between 30 and 40% of their time filling out paperwork to match designs, etc. Uh that is a problem. Uh the training when they come from training and get actually on site, it's completely different. Um so these are things that they need to work on and I've spoken to General Dynamics about it.
▶ 0:53:03We are working on a couple of different other ideas as well. There were a couple things I saw at Bath Iron Works to be honest that were excellent. Uh and there were some things being implemented at Portsmith uh that were really good that we need to start to integrate and do. This is a very big concern. I do think we can get uh the calendar shifted left. Um but it's going to take a lot of hard work and a lot of effort.
▶ 0:53:30uh and it is a my number one priority right now given the strategic importance of this. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for that. Um Admiral, have you want to add anything to that? I I think the secretary covered it. I do have the same concerns he does. I've have the same observations about maturity of workforce and and skilled labor. So, at our public yards and our private yards, there has been a a um a loss of that experience.
▶ 0:53:59So supervisors don't have the same experience they used to. That's an important thing for us to correct. Additionally, we are looking at extending uh those holes in our Ohio class that can make sure we don't have a gap in strategic deterrence. The first one is USS Alaska which will extend in through a Pyra in 2029 and there are four additional holes. So I think that's a insurance policy to make sure that we are still the most survivable leg of the nuclear triad sir.
▶ 0:54:30U thank you for that. I um it's interesting to note that uh what's going on in Japan and South Korea where they have a significant amount of the world's ship building capability is you know we've dropped now to what 3% of ship building worldwide. The Chinese are what 50% of ship construction.
▶ 0:54:51Japanese and the and the Koreans are about 35 40% combined and then the rest of the world and so it's disappointing that we've got ourselves in this situation. So we have a lot of work ahead of us as you mentioned Mr. Secretary to uh to straighten this up. Uh Miss McCullum you wanted me to recognize Mr. Quayar Square you're recognized. Thank you Mr. Chairman and ranking. Thank you. We got to go same place. Uh talk to Coast Guard.
▶ 0:55:19But just uh first of all um Admiral and Mr. Secretary Admiral and I think a fellow Texan also uh general thank you for the uh service that you provided. Couple things. One uh the military does bring some uh skills and assets that uh the department of homeland doesn't uh do. So like if you can follow up on that uh and what y'all bring to it.
▶ 0:55:46It's not only the southern border, but of course we got the coast as you know. Uh number one. Number two, you know, the law already calls for operational and regulatory efficiency reviews. The law already calls for contracting and procurement standards. The law already calls for quarterly performance updates. The law already requires development submissions of updated performance measures.
▶ 0:56:12Uh I'd like to just focus on the contracting and procurement standard as it's been brought up by both the chairman and the ranking member is why can we not do things on budget and on time. It's I mean if the Chinese can do it, the Japanese can do it and other folks can do it.
▶ 0:56:31You know, we always come up, well, we got workforce development, all that, but why can, you know, there there's already uh penalties there for uh monetary penalties, suspension of work, and other things under the law. You know, you know, we keep coming up with excuses, but you got other countries that keep doing this. On budget and on time are the two factors. Finally, the last thing uh and and you can follow up on this later on.
▶ 0:56:59Uh in my San Antonio area, as you know, there's been different suspension of contracts. There is one in particular uh that had to do with some data, a data contract that deals with uh uh service members records, data for promotion boards and other thing. And again, this contract was, you know, we think it was necessary and it was performing, but then you all cut it. I I don't want you to take up the time now, but have somebody follow up on that.
▶ 0:57:26But I I'd like to go and if you can mention a little bit on border security, what you bring in that homeland doesn't have, but more importantly on budget and on time and why other countries can do it and we Why don't why don't we start with the border piece and then we can go to another question.
▶ 0:57:45So from the Navy's perspect perspective, 30 intelligence specialists on the on the border helping with the southern border, 58 P8 sordies for intelligence and surveillance and now three ships and uh Minneapolis St. Paul is a latoral combat ship as well as two destroyers and they relieved two destroyers. So the presence for counter drug flow, counter uh immigration, there's a maritime component of that that the Navy is performing and has performed for a long time.
▶ 0:58:14The first time I got underway on a ship in 1987, we had a law enforcement detachment and that's something the Coast Guard and the Navy are really good at doing together to extend the reach of the Coast Guard. Sir, in terms of the Marines, our first combat engineer battalion based out of Camp Pendleton, California is operating uh on the southern border. They're doing engineer tasks. They're uh constructing uh concertina wire. They're building obstacles. They're doing what they do.
▶ 0:58:42So, they're continuing to get the training that they would normally get at Camp Pendleton. They're just getting on the southern border. But that's our contribution is our first combat engineer battalion. Um just real quick, uh just on the border as well. I mean, I think the Navy since its inception has been a homeland defense uh organization. Uh they've worked with the Coast Guard. They do ballistic missile defense and keeping sea lanes and trade lanes open.
▶ 0:59:12It's been part of their job uh since inception. So, I think it's a very important aspect to what they do. In terms of on time on budget, I I think it's it's a number of of different things. One, as as I mentioned in my opening statement, the industrial base has been hollowed out. we have lost a lot of manufacturing and our ability to manufacture. Um we've had prior conflicts where we've spent a lot of money.
▶ 0:59:36Uh and the bills for our deferred infrastructure spend uh uh whether that's peers docks is now coming due um and it's been going on for a while. And so these are not new problems. I mean I look back at testimony 20 years I keep hearing the same things. I'm trying to figure out why it hasn't been fixed. uh to be perfectly honest. Um but I will tell you I I think it's a combination of bureaucracy.
▶ 1:00:02So just to give you an example um in in in in the Navy in acquisitions alone we have 56,000 people in our acquisitions department. Now we did last year 217,000 contracts. That's 34 contracts per person. That's two contracts a something's off.
▶ 1:00:27I, you know, I keep trying to understand what are all these people doing and these are complicated contracts, but I'll also be honest when I look at our contracting, it's poor. We don't control our IP. We can't repair stuff. Um, we don't have very good penalties built in um for lack of performance. These are all things we are going to really try to change. And I I kind of called it in my confirmation hearing, shared risk. it.
▶ 1:00:55I think it's great for the private sector to make money and they should but they should be paid according to the risk that they take and that is not going on right now and we need to fix that. So it is not an easy solution but it has our focus and we are going to get it fixed. It will take time. Uh we will be very transparent with all of you and walk you through and tell you the good, the bad and the ugly and try to get it sorted. Thank you, Chairman Cole.
▶ 1:01:27Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Uh I want to go back to something I mentioned in my sec uh opening statement. Secretary Pelin, uh could you tell us whether or not uh that we're looking at restructuring the Taco mission and whether or not we're looking at offloading some of those functions that it currently provides to the Air Force? Thank you for the question, chairman.
▶ 1:01:54I think I'm going to let Admiral Kilby answer that, but let let me just give you my thoughts. Look, the investments in both the E6B and its replacement, the E130, are critical to nuclear modernization. I'm committed to improving that. It is a critical part. Uh, and then I'll let Admil comment on your specific question. Yes, sir. So, uh, as Secretary Felin said, the E6, which we, which you now know so much about, has served us well.
▶ 1:02:20We need to make sure that, uh, aircraft gets through its service life and is replaced by its replacement. There is another mission assigned to that aircraft now, the ABNCAP mission, and that is the mission that needs another platform or a home because the EC130 just does not have the room in it that the E6 does to perform both those missions. But most important, and I agree with Secretary Felin, we must stay on track for the tackle replacement program. We've gotten more than our money's worth out of the E6s.
▶ 1:02:50We've had this empanage problem, and we're repairing those aircraft to make sure they're safe to fly to provide continuity of NC3, but I'm committed to the Takamo replacement program and staying on budget and on delivery for that so we can do what we do for the nation. And again, just to to not be redundant, but to be specific, are we talking about any of that mission moving to the Air Force or are we talking about keeping it within the Navy? That's a that's a a discussion still at the Department of Defense.
▶ 1:03:19Uh the part I specifically talked about though was it will not go into the into the EC130 replacement because there's just no room for the kit for that aircraft. So there's a there's a limitation to what the 130 can do and it's a performance gain for us we think in the execution of NC3. So we'll have to figure out as a department the department of defense what happens to that initial mission and it may not be an aircraft. It might be another means to provide that secure comps.
▶ 1:03:47Well I would ask you to keep us apprised of that. I will tell you since I've got a lot of E6s based out of my district and E3s that are all being retired from uh the Air Force uh where we're having to scramble to find replacements. I'm not sure the Air Force would have the capacity to do some of the things you need to do. So, uh again, I would very much like to know uh when and if that decisions made.
▶ 1:04:15Uh let me ask you too quickly if I may. Um, and I put this to all of you. Uh, and Chairman Calbert raised it. I'm very concerned about the the where we're at in terms of munitions, terms of what's available, what you need, what we would have if, god forbid, we were in, you know, a short-term conflict. Uh, it would be shortterm because we don't have enough munitions to sustain a long-term fight.
▶ 1:04:40So, where are we at in procurement and stockpiling of the munitions, particularly precision strike types of munitions that you think you would need in a conflict with a near pure power? Sure, I'll take that one. Just for the Navy, we are invested in the munitions we need particularly to uh to be ready to uh if we need to go to war with China.
▶ 1:05:02Those are precision guided long range munitions like uh Tomahawk, maritime strike tomahawk, larazzim, sm6, sm2, argam, A9X, M120 and uh and the heavyweight torpedo. So all those munitions we need to increase production on.
▶ 1:05:20I'm also uh of the mind that we need to look at other vendors and they may not be able to produce the same exact specification, but they might be able to produce a missile that's effective, which is more effective than no missile. So, I think we've got to open our aperture a little bit, but those munitions that I listed, uh, we need to increase production. And we've done so with things like the SM6, which used to have a one 125 rounds a year. We're ramping up to 300 rounds a year. We've restarted our Mark 48 line. That's our premier torpedo.
▶ 1:05:51We stopped doing torpedoes in in 1996 and now have just reconstituted that line and are going to deliver 10 a month. So that's 120 a year. That's a step in the right direction. But we need to stop looking like I have at the minimum sustaining rate and look at what we need for protraction. I think it's uh foolish to think that we're going to be in a short sharp war. If we go to war with China, this is going to be a big deal and it's going to be bloody and there's going to be casualties and it's going to take time and munitions.
▶ 1:06:20So, our stocks need to be full. Well, again, I would ask you to keep us uh uh informed on that and what we can do to accelerate that process because I think we're all very very concerned and I'm glad to hear you're looking at alternatives because I think you're exactly right. I'm not sure the capacity exists in the traditional uh you know missions that we have to to do it in a shortterm and speedy fashion. Last question.
▶ 1:06:44Um if I could get to you quickly, General Smith, I just curious your assessment where we're at on force design 2030. Uh you know, how how are things going? Are you on schedule? Sir, thanks for that question. Sir, we are on schedule. Uh I'm committed to force design balanced against our crisis response and readiness missions. Um we're investing in key capabilities such as unmanned systems, long range precision fires which you addressed, air defenses, counter small UAS.
▶ 1:07:15Um we're enabling modernization while retaining our capability for competition and crisis response which is our gnome dear. Um it preserves the capability of the marine expeditionary unit. Uh based on combat operational employments, the COCOMs have asked us to accelerate some of our capabilities such as the MQ9, our bigwing drone.
▶ 1:07:36Um, pair that with with Mattis, our marine air defense system, uh, and an EMR, a medium-range intercept capability, and we are well on our way to realizing the value of force design as a standin force to to enable us to deter the PRC from uh, I won't say breaking out, but breaking out and if they do to punish them for it. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Happy to recognize ranking member, Miss McCullum. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:08:07Chair. Mr. um you were very refreshing in your hearings with what the learning curve you were going to take on. You've been on the job for less than two months and here you are without a full budget in front of us, us asking a lot of questions. Um but I'm going to as a school teacher, I'm going to just press one more time for an answer for the question.
▶ 1:08:29Uh we haven't had uh two sub production I've been told since before since so you've been out talking to people looking at the shipyards looking at workforce you're doing your due diligence but we will start marking up a budget in June.
▶ 1:08:48So, um, do you have any idea of when maybe you can come before the committee and tell us when we can expect to get back to two subs a Um, because the budget, I mean, what kind of conversations are happening at the Pentagon about how we get back on track and are they giving you all the flexibility to put this priority number one to move forward. The other problem we discussed is the backlog for maintenance in the shipyards.
▶ 1:09:17And you just mentioned uh uh with with the Admiral 2 now with what's happening with the halls and the Ohio class. That's something else you're going to be bringing into the shipyard and there's already backlog there. So I know you're putting all the pieces in the puzzle together. It's been two months. You're taking this extraordinarily seriously. I I want to I I want to be fair and recognize that. But I have a job to do too as long as with these committee members.
▶ 1:09:42Do you have any idea when you think you might be able to come back in front of the committee within the next month, two months with any kind of a plan and anything we have to look at for the allocation of dollars to get you back on track? Uh thank you for the question. I I would tell you that we've been working very hard with the uh DEPAC uh and SEC def on this issue. Uh it's been a high priority for them uh as it is for us.
▶ 1:10:11Uh I I think that uh we are uh trying to attack this problem from a number of different angles to try to figure it out and get a better idea. I I'd like to believe that we should be able to come sit down with you uh hopefully within the next month or two months. Give me a little bit of decision space time uh because we're still trying to get this all put together.
▶ 1:10:33You know, a lot of a lot of what the companies will tell you is that we took people off of Virginia and put them on Colombia, which set them back on Virginia. I'm trying to understand this because I think part of the problem also is there are materials they're waiting on. They take workers and shift them from a Colombia to a Virginia, which does not make sense. That is something that does not happen in the Korean shipyards or the Japanese shipyards that I visited.
▶ 1:11:01I saw a fair amount of automation at the Korean shipyards that I've not seen um in our yards uh that I think will help things in in a big way. And that doesn't, you know, think that means less jobs. It it actually doesn't. It just means different types of jobs because those machines still need to be watched and kept a breast and and what they're doing. So, it's a different type of training.
▶ 1:11:25Um, as soon as I have an answer, I will come and sit down and give you the honest truth on what I think what's the best we can do schedule-wise and what we think these are going to be and how quickly we can fix that problem, but I it would be I'm on day 50 so a little tough. I really do.
▶ 1:11:43I appreciate that because you know the president has put forward uh all kinds of things you know top priority sentinel which is a huge boondoggle cost overrun uh that this committee is having to deal with and the concept as it's been described in this hearing room the concept of what Golden Dome is going to look like um for me we've got a task in front of us that's not been completed and for me that's my first priority my my my first mission um so I appreciate that uh along Along with that,
▶ 1:12:13the the chairman uh and I had the opportunity to go to Australia last year with um with some other committee members and um do you think uh with the August that we're going to be able to meet our uh requirements that are included in that agreement? Is that part of the calculus on how we get back on track? Hey, just uh maybe a little more because I've been working this a little bit longer than the secretary.
▶ 1:12:42So uh we we have accepted money from Australia to get to the 33 part of 2.33. We have Australia workers at our our Pearl Harbor Navy shipyard. We have maintained and done some availabilities in Sterling. I think those are all on plan for for AAS phase one and and that's helpful to us. But to your point, man, we have to get to the two and then to get to the 2.33.
▶ 1:13:05So I think all that in conjunction with each other uh is what we're going to try to bring to bear including the investments we supported supported by you which we're appreciative of on the uh on both SIB and MIB I think are key to clutch in and that and that dividend will make parts more available and we'll be able to do our work uh faster.
▶ 1:13:25So, uh, it is phase one is on plan now and we just need to watch it because working with two countries, we've we've come across some things we didn't expect as far as bureaucratic um roadblocks to getting workers in certain places. So, I think we're on it. We're going to stay with it and I think it's important for the whole effort. Thank you. And then lastly, um, Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:13:51Um, General Smith, we had an opportunity to talk just briefly about this and the the decision for the army to cut uh the joint light tactical vehicle came as much as a surprise to you as it did to this uh committee.
▶ 1:14:05Um so if you could maybe share with some of the other um members of the committee how you think these cuts could impact uh you both presently and in the future and what happens with the cost per unit for these vehicles for your budget as you were getting ready to prepare it. Yes ma'am. The Marine Corps is fully committed to the JLTV program. It is it is our workhorse on the ground tactical vehicle fleet.
▶ 1:14:33It's a little bit too early to assess the impact of the army stopping their version of the program. Um, but per unit costs are clearly going to go up. The apoch, the average per unit cost is going to go up when the orders go down, and that's going to negatively impact the Marine Corps's ability to fulfill its ground tactical vehicle mobility strategy, which has me concerned. Well, when you have those numbers, we would appreciate receiving them. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank the gentle lady. I just want to make a point, too.
▶ 1:15:02our former colleague Rahm Emanuel who is the was was the ambassador to Japan would call me and I know he called the full committee chairman from time to time uh pointing out that Japan has significant shipyard capability and capacity to help us with the maintenance of our ships uh without having to send them back on and right now apparently we don't you know there's some scheduling issues with some of the yards so I hope Mr.
▶ 1:15:29Secretary, you're looking at some of our our uh colleagues uh in Japan and South Korea that are great allies that maybe can help get you where you need to be. So, thank you for the question, chairman. Look, I all options are on the table and I was very impressed by what I saw in Korea and Japan. Uh I saw uh two ships that they did maintenance work in Korea uh for us. Excellent.
▶ 1:15:57I actually saw a DDG destroyer they made which is 10% bigger than ours which by the way was an excellent ship. I even think the combat information center was laid out better than ours uh looking at it. Uh so I think we have to really look at this and I think I kind of bucket it in two ways. There's shortterm things we need to do because we need to get holes in the water and there's long-term and the long-term is getting the maritime industrial base, getting the jobs, getting those brought back here.
▶ 1:16:27I think, you know, you've seen what Hanwa did with Philly uh with the Philly shipyard. They're very interested in expanding some of their work here. Uh we we have to put everything on the table. We are at that sort of kind of period of time and and and so yes, we will definitely be looking into that. Thank you. Uh Mr. Rogers, the dean. Mr. Chairman, uh Mr. Secretary, let me uh discuss with you naval drug interdiction.
▶ 1:16:58Uh the Navy has a history of reliability issues with latoral combat ships. But plans to decommission those ships halted due to uh other potential use cases such as drug interdiction missions.
▶ 1:17:23Um the Navy's latoral combat ship has recently gotten some praise for its success in those drug interdiction missions. In April of this year, u the Minneapolis St.
▶ 1:17:42Paul a Freedom LCS stopped two suspected drug smuggling operations within 72 hours through a combination of air and surface operations in the Caribbean Sea. the successful operation that I've described as one of uh good examples in recent years of an LCS interdicting drug smuggling operations.
▶ 1:18:12In 2020, the USS Gabrielle Gford stopped a vessel in the Eastern Pacific that was carrying $106 million worth of Uh, in 2021, USS Witchah and USS Sous City seized $17 million and more than $20 million worth of
▶ 1:18:43cocaine. These lal ships, they're fast, they're they carry helicopters, they have air and surface radars, all of which are very helpful. and stopping drug smuggling operations. Um, these ships are also armed with missiles.
▶ 1:19:07They're unlikely to be used against drug smugglers due to the costs of the munitions. Of all the Navy's warships, the LCS is probably the best choice for counterdrug uh missions. But the program has been repeatedly described as a costly misstep for the sea service.
▶ 1:19:37The two classes of small but fast warships were designed to operate in lural nearshore waters and primarily seen as a solution to an unclear problem. Due to technical issues, the service has opted to retire some of the oldest vessels years before their end of service life.
▶ 1:20:05Others would be pawned off to regional partners and allies. In 2025, just recently, the Navy stopped LCS's, halting production at the current ships rather than moving forward with 52 that was originally planned. What can you say about this? Are we going in the right path?
▶ 1:20:37Sure. If I could start and then turn over to the secretary. One, I think your points are spot on. Even though it's a Coast Guard mission to do drug interdiction, the Navy and the Coast Guard have worked together in this for a long time. The LCS presents some great attributes, as you've pointed out. One of them is a gigantic mission bay if needed. So, the ability to support General Guo and Admiral Hley, both Northern Command and the Southern Command Commander for missions south of the border, I think, are a great use of that vessel.
▶ 1:21:07and it would allow us to free up DDGS to do other things. So I I think there's great potential there. We have had some challenges with our whole mechanical electrical system particularly on the freedom class. We've addressed those through a combining gear fix. So I think those missions could be well served by LCS allowing our DDGS maybe to use for another mission in homeland defense for General Guo like out of area deployer uh from either our west or east coast.
▶ 1:21:34So, we will look at these uh platforms and we will field the best Navy we can for the budget we have to do the missions assigned. Well, we're being flooded with drugs. That's beyond doubt. And it seems to me it's not too wise to holster a weapon such as the LCS in this time. I thank you and I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 1:22:04Uh m Mr. Chair, Mr. not totally aware of this but both the chairman when I was the chair and he was the ranking member now he's the chair and I'm the ranking member. We've asked repeatedly for ways in which the LCS when it fits when it works can be repurposed for doing programs as uh former chairman Rogers was was talking about and uh slow to get us a report. the report was not very adequate.
▶ 1:22:32And so you if you ask somebody back in your office, they can dig up an old file for you. This is something that this committee has been trying to figure out how to be uh best use for these ships when it works. We know that they won't work for everything. Some of them need to be retired and that. I want to be clear on that. But this committee's been asking for this for a long time and I just thought maybe you'd want to know Thank you. I I'll look into that.
▶ 1:22:59We're very good at putting together reports and studies and hiding them and getting to us. So, I'm I'm working on getting through that as fast as possible. We will look into it. We're we're spending a lot of time honestly trying to come up with the appropriate force structure given the budget that we have and the budget issues we have with some of the other programs. So, we have some tough decisions to make uh and tough tradeoffs and that's really what we're going through as we speak.
▶ 1:23:29Thank you, Mr. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I know there's been a discussion in in my absence about the Virginia class submarine contract and so I don't want to uh have to be repetitive, but I just wanted to a couple things in this area and we know that the contract announcement came at the end of April.
▶ 1:23:49We were supposed to get it at the end of February, but the April 30th contract modification indicated that future Virginia class procurement will not be conducted through quote block multi-year contracts as has previously been the case, but instead through oneoff cost plus incentive fee contracts.
▶ 1:24:08Um, you've noted that the April 30th contract modification that obligated the December continuing resolution money was renegotiated to appropriately quote share risk between the Navy and the industry end quote. You have indicated that this will serve as a template for future ship building contracts, whatever the contracting method of that the Navy uses. We have the same goal, getting production back on schedule and on budget.
▶ 1:24:35Can you explain in more detail how shifting contract mechanisms will achieve that goal and create as you described quote more value for the American taxpayer? Thank you for the question ranking member and again thank you for the support to this committee uh for the Virginia. I think at the end of the day, we had a very tight time frame in which to try to get something put together quickly uh in order to continue the production on Virginia.
▶ 1:25:05What we ended up doing was we had a cost plus contract uh which was eating us alive and as you delay out schedule, you know, that's that's pretty tough. So, we had to get money to them for workforce. We had to send a demand signal to the private sector to put money into their facilities and invest.
▶ 1:25:27I think what what I liked about what we were able to do on this contract is we shifted it from cost plus with a cap of call it 100 with 130% ceiling to fixing it up to 86% of the cost but we brought the ceiling up to 138%. So we ended up fixing the price more on this which our view was to put pressure on them to to try to perform and get quicker.
▶ 1:25:57So the template is going to be more of a fixed price with some incentives and I think what we're missing to some extent is incenting them to move faster. So in a cost plus contract the longer you wait the more money you make and that's what we have.
▶ 1:26:15Um, and you know, we have to look also at one of the things, you know, again, and it's still early, but we have to figure out who else can help us build these and if there's modules we can have done somewhere else to get this done because we have a sole source supplier and that is a big constraint and there are a number of infrastructure constraints that exist as well both at the public shipyards and at the private shipyards.
▶ 1:26:45So to give you an example, one of the workers I met at Norol told me that she has to get to the office, she has to get to the yard at 5 in the morning. Her shift starts at 7 because the parking is so bad that she wants to get a spot because she has to get home to her child after her shift's over. That's crazy. We need to fix that and and we need to come up with some ways to do that. But specifically to your question, we were able to fix this now.
▶ 1:27:13And I think when we get to the next contract, we will look to try to modify that more and have more shared risk with them, which is kind of locking in margins, locking in numbers, and also trying to rationalize the uh the the the supply base. I think, you know, we've done some very good work with 3D printing, which the admiral can talk about, in Danville.
▶ 1:27:36Uh, I visited a uh a company on the West Coast that does 3D printing that I think has what appears to be a pretty good solution to our munitions problem. Potentially, we have to get more advanced. We need to try things. This is a very uh it's a thing the Navy does not like to do. Um, and we need to we need to get better at that.
▶ 1:28:00I I just would say the um the fixed price and and again just tracking what those incentives are so that we don't find ourselves back in the situation where you've got the the cost plus uh issue and obvious you know obviously as you spread it out it's much more money involved but we try to get that under control so I appreciate what you're doing and would want to really understand uh or regular communication about uh how that's working
▶ 1:28:31and what that means in dollars and cents and what that means you know uh and using that model. Uh it's important for us to know what these models are as my colleagues have said. Uh because we're dealing with the money here, you know, and and and being being able to um uh really be able to get you what you need, but not not at, you know, at any any price at all. And and production being slower than it usually is. I understand the frustration.
▶ 1:29:02Um, you know, I've been on it 50 days and I I I feel like I'm in a perpetual game of whack-a-ole. Uh, whenever I find something new, it I don't have great news. I don't think it's going to be good. I'm going to be very honest. The numbers are eye opening to me. I am still trying to get through it and really sort through what's real, what's on us, and what's on them. I'm tired of the COVID excuse. I'm tired of a lot of these things.
▶ 1:29:30I hear, you know, we have 139y old facility. I'm like, when you signed the contract, it was 134 years old. So, I'm not sure that that's a my problem. Thank you. And so, we're we're working on that. Great. Thank you. And we want to be helpful in that. Mr. Chairman, can I ask one more quick question? Real quick. Okay. Very very quick. This is just as about the future of military ship building. Let me just say it this way. Um, with Congress, we've invested billions of dollars in in the submarine industrial base.
▶ 1:29:57We need a clear sense of what oversight and accountability mechanisms the Navy has in place to ensure again that the money is well spent. Um, and we need to know how you're going to continue to engage with this subcommittee and the Congress to ensure that we're kept up to date on the Navy's work in this in this area. Very very quickly, we've seen the Army last two weeks. Secretary Hexth, he's interested in re-evaluating programs for structure surfacewide.
▶ 1:30:26We receive little or no warning on those changes and I would hope that if the secretary's office is looking at something similar for the Navy and the Marine Corps that we would receive advanced notice and would be consulted on the decisions and can you commit to that? I'm sorry. Give me the question you're asking.
▶ 1:30:47I want you to to commit to letting us know what uh uh you know what restructuring is, what services like H Hegsth just said we're going to re-evaluate uh the the force structure servicewide.
▶ 1:31:02No warning about any of any of that and we don't know if they're planning anything similar for the Navy or for the Marine Corps and we need to be engaged and involved in that So, so obviously the administration has uh the president and and secretary Hexth uh have put forth a plan to flatten and streamline uh the flag officer and general officer structure to ensure decisions are being made closer to the war fighter.
▶ 1:31:28And so we are looking at that as we speak uh per per that instruction and complying with that order. uh we are trying to figure out how to streamline and and make things more efficient. Uh and we are doing our best as to that and um that's what I can tell you. Okay. Sorry.
▶ 1:31:50Well, I I I would just say that this to you if those conversations are going on with regard to the Navy, that's something that this committee should know about and be engaged and involved in. We just don't want to be told that this is this is it. This is the fa complete. Hell no. Hell no. So I'm hoping that you can commit. We don't want a failure to communicate. Does that got it? Mr. Wilmarmac. Mr. Captor, do we need to yield to Siri for a question?
▶ 1:32:26Happens to all of us. Uh thanks gentlemen for your service our country. I'm going to ask a couple of questions. Um the first one fits into the category of a good plan executed now is probably better than a perfect plan executed way too late. So this is about and I realize the level of classification here so we can't get too far down the weeds.
▶ 1:32:48But maybe in general terms on next generation uh Navy fighters I'm you know the the Air Force has moved out um on their plan. Navy has not the um I'm concerned about the risk associated with um with delays and u without getting too far down in the weeds, can you help me understand how we're how we mitigate risk and and uh when
▶ 1:33:18we might expect a down select on on on that platform because it's um you know if if if everybody uh understands that there's a move out date for China on Taiwan of, you know, 2027. Uh, you know, those are the kinds of things that cause us to have to look at our acquisition process and wonder if if we're operating from behind. So, I don't know, Mr.
▶ 1:33:44Secretary, if you want to take that one or if the admiral wants to take it, then I'll come back with an AIB question for General Smith.
▶ 1:34:23that test. Admiral, just a comment on on the sixth gen fighter. You know, I've had the pleasure of briefing this committee on carrier survivability and the Navy composition in the in the Western Pacific.
▶ 1:34:52The sixth gen fighter is key to airwing of the future. So to me, the carrier is the most survivable airfield we have period and stop. The sixth gen fighter is a keystone of our airwing of the future, which includes, as the secretary indicated, manned and unmanned aircraft. And that's a that's the beauty of an airwing is that can be updated and still be serviced by the aircraft carrier, which is a capital investment, which we're going to have for a long long time.
▶ 1:35:21To me, it is the joint force that is going to win against China. That's the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and the Army and the Space Force. And the Navy brings mobility, which is our chief attribute for you and and the chief confounding thing for China. So the carrier is a big piece of that because it brings mass volume fires over and over and over again where a submarine will have to be reloaded and a destroyer will have to be reloaded maybe at some place and take it offline.
▶ 1:35:51That carrier's got sustainment power and the thing that delivers it is is a fifth gen and sixth gen fighter into the future. But back to the technologies, I I realize that we're deliberating the emerging technologies that will be central into the decision-making process. These dogone technologies are changing like every day, right? I mean, we're we're learning stuff from the battlefield all the time.
▶ 1:36:21and the private sector is uh doing a you know a fine job of helping understand how these developing technologies are emerging as quickly as they are. So at what point in time will we say you know time's up we we've got to move out we we we've got to make a decision and go when does that happen? I think at the end of the day look we need to create more flexibility in our procurement.
▶ 1:36:50Okay, we need to be able to adapt faster. We're very slow. We we we're putting ships in the water that are 30% obsolete by the time they get into the water. That's that's a bad bad thing and we need to fix that. So, I don't have a specific answer to to your question, Congressman. I think we we're going to look at that. We are studying each program line by line and trying to understand this.
▶ 1:37:16I think the companies that currently serve us would tell you, oh, we got to do this immediately. I'm not sure because of the speed at which technology is moving. What we're seeing in advanced manufacturing is changing daily. And so what we will be able to do today versus two years, three years, four years, five years, it's going to take a while. I think this comes back to my earlier comment about what our force posture is going to look like.
▶ 1:37:41I think what I found in business is is the best way to be successful is not to be reactive. It's to say where do you want to be in five years? Where do you want to be in 10 years? And then work your way backwards to get there. Don't try to work to it. Work back from it. And we're still in that process. I don't know if you think Secretary you covered it, but I just wanted to speak to the operational benefit of a six-g fighter uh to the joint force.
▶ 1:38:10We're we're going up against a worldclass adversary potentially and we got to have worldclass equipment and for the aviation component of airwing in the future that's a six-g fighter. Got it. Um finally with the remaining time I have General Smith you and I have talked many times about amphib uh and I'm very concerned about the readiness rates um uh that are critical to you know your ARGs and and what what these rates do in terms of uh adding risk uh to our ability to deploy.
▶ 1:38:40So, um I'm I'm going to throw you that softball because I know you uh uh you have some strong feelings about your amphibious fleet. Well, sir, I'm I'm working closely with my shipmate Jim Kilby, Admiral Kilby, to bring the readiness rates of amphibs up to where they they need to be. We we base our amphibious readiness on 80% a subo 80% readiness and the current readiness is in the 40th percentile. So, it's got to come up. There's only two solutions.
▶ 1:39:08is either increase readiness or increase the number of ships. Um and or a combination thereof. But uh there's a there's a thing called the optimized fleet response plan, OFRP, that I'm committed to. I know Jim Kilby's committed to. So we are we are working hard to produce the number of amphibs required to produce a 3.0 ARG MW. Um that is one one amphibious ready group marine expeditionary unit off the east coast, one off the west coast and the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit out of Okinawa, Japan episodically deployed.
▶ 1:39:39Again, it's the Swiss Army knife of the joint force. It can do a whole lot of everything and a lot of combat. Uh it can do humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, it can evacuate embassies, can reassure allies and partners, but it can do combat. It can knock down Houthy drones. It can take out targets in the Red Sea. and it can keep sea lanes of communication open. So, we think it's a good investment and again it's the Swiss Army knife, but I'm committed to getting those amphibious readiness rates up and I know Admiral Kilby is as well. Thank you.
▶ 1:40:10Thank you, Mr. Casease. Um, Mr. Secretary, um, first of all, commendation on on kicking off your tenure with a listening tour. I think that's great that you get out of Washington and see what's happening out in the field. uh both here and internationally.
▶ 1:40:28Um on the international front, I've I've I've asked many of your colleagues that have come in here this year about the extent to which our military um is now required to carry a heavier load in our relationships with other countries around the world, friends and allies, but not just friends and allies, but potential friends and allies. And and the consequences really of of of withdrawing from some of our other instruments of national outreach, for example, USAD.
▶ 1:40:53And as that has happened, um, we obviously have, uh, some pretty nervous and, you know, the combination of other things, tariffs or whatever. Um, we have some pretty nervous friends and allies out there and our miltomill relationships have really carried the day in past comparable situations. Um, I guess what I'd like to hear you talk about is, you know, what are what what are the opportunities um, from your perspective in in your uh, responsibility to expand those miltoill relationships?
▶ 1:41:21So I'm thinking about for example more more joint training exercises more um you know just people out there on the road as you've done uh meeting a little bit more with their colleagues around the world. Is that a conscious part of your your your planning your policy? Uh thank you for the question uh Congressman.
▶ 1:41:39Uh yes, I mean you know in Korea I met with the uh uh minister of defense and and the acting president at the time uh and uh in Japan I met with the uh their equivalent of the joint chief's head and and their minister of defense as well. I think we are doing a number of joint exercises and I'll let Admiral Kilby talk about them because I think they're pretty impressive uh what we've been doing in the Indoacific.
▶ 1:42:05But I I I think look, my my message to the allies is the same as as the president said, which is, you know, we're your ally, but it's time for you to to to to pay your fair share. And uh and I think that is the the basic message. And what I've seen to some extent is in some cases we are definitely seeing that and in some we're seeing the reluctance uh in the political aspects of it.
▶ 1:42:30um from the military side you don't you know they they want to spend it they know they need it they know they need to have the same capability uh and I think candidly we need to attack even the manufacturing aspect of this better I think we need to be speaking more about um how do we both create our forces to make sure that if we got into a major conflict that you know we can maybe depend on them to help manufacture some things as well.
▶ 1:43:00So, I think that's a critical component. I've met with the uh the head of the uh Spanish Navy, uh the head of the Italian Navy, uh and recently the one of the ministers of defense from the UK came in. Thank you. Thank you for for that.
▶ 1:43:14Um um and I think that um I guess my only response to you is I I think we can both have higher expectations of our allies and partners and maintain a much stronger uh military relationship as we all get through a little bit of you know change and dislocation in those relationships. I don't think it's an even either or. If I could just shift on you, you probably have something to say on this, but I I do I do want to shift quickly. Um Admiral Franketti of course um came up with her navigation plan in 2024.
▶ 1:43:44um refined in um um um what is it? Project 33 in terms of a time frame. Um President Trump came out with his restoring America's maritime dominance in April, just a month ago.
▶ 1:43:59And I'm trying to figure out how that all fits together in terms of what we have to do in terms of funding um you um has anything fundamentally changed um in the in the goals or or are there just massive you know changes that you're going to go through where we've got to go oh wait a minute now we got to go in a different direction at least consider it or are these all pretty much aligned going into the future? My opinion is they're aligned. Now Admiral Frank's uh focus was 2027 as is mine.
▶ 1:44:28So the goals we were pursuing are goals to get after a force that's as ready as possible by January 1st, 2027. The first goal is ready platforms. That's where the 80% combat surge ready comes from where 80% of my aircraft, ships, and submarines that are not in depot level available are available to the fleet commander if needed.
▶ 1:44:49We're still going to follow the process that General Smith talked about to get them fully certified, but if they need to get called over early, I want to know that those ships are armed and manned and ready to go for the call. So, those are good targets and we're still moving out on them. Okay. So, I mean, when we look at um matching up what has been done in the last year against the the budget requests, we'll see a continuity. I suppose that's what I just don't want to get surprised at anything coming out like, "Oh, wow.
▶ 1:45:18We're not doing that anymore." Uh, I do not think you'll be surprised. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Judge Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, gentlemen, for what you do for our sailors and our Marines. Uh, you have a big-time job.
▶ 1:45:38Admiral uh Kilby, you and others have acknowledged that relying on expensive missile systems to counter lowcost threats like drones is unsustainable. What is the Navy's plan to rapidly field directed energy systems like the maritanized enduring highle laser for shipboard use?
▶ 1:46:04And how are you incorporating lessons from the army's development to reduce cost and uh per engagement and preserve the missile piles for higher and more important threats? Sir, I don't restrict that only to directed energy, but that's certainly an area we're interested in. We have a Helios installed on the Prebble, which is located in Japan.
▶ 1:46:29We had some problems with testing, but now we're up to onethird of the power and we're going to continue to test that weapon system to make sure it works. You know, I've got buyer's remorse. When I worked with General Smith in our last life, I was the N9, which is the person procuring systems, and I was focused on a laser between 500 kilowatts and 1 megawatt because that's what it takes to knock down an anti-hship cruise missile. I wish I'd been a little bit more thoughtful and and taken a lesser power weapon that would have been capable against UAS's.
▶ 1:46:57In the meantime, we're going to pursue that testing on Helio on the Helios system, but we're strapping on a lot of uh systems on the Ford Strike Group, which is going to deploy next from the East Coast, like a coyote missile system, which is a much cheaper version of a munition to send at a counter UAS threat, or a high velocity profile uh projectile, sorry, high velocity projectile from the 5-in gun. That's a very more expensive inexpensive way to get at it.
▶ 1:47:25for Hellbo longbow uh missile which is a more inexpensive way to get at that. So we're going to put those on that system. They're not fully integrated with the combat system but I think they'll be very effective and we'll test them out at sea and then we'll procure them at scale if we need to. That's good to hear.
▶ 1:47:42Uh, Secretary Failen, workforce development to revitalize maritime industrial base is uh in speed to to up to speed up ship building and improve readiness.
▶ 1:48:01Are there currently or planned partnerships between Department of the Navy and Texas-based community colleges, trade schools, or universities to grow the high generation the near generation skilled ship building and workforce as a product of a Texas college? I wish I knew the answer to that, but I'm gonna let Admiral Kilby answer that question.
▶ 1:48:29We are doing a lot of programs as it relates to ship building and at a lot of different schools. I do believe we do have them in Galveastston. I think yeah, we've got to expand this, sir. So, one of the things Secretary referred to was two weeks ago I went to Danville, Virginia, where we have an accelerated training and defense manufacturing center and uh that's an exciting proposition for me. We used SB money to uh put invest in the Navy in Danville, Virginia.
▶ 1:48:57I watched five five disciplines being trained eight hours, three three sections a day. So 247 welders, non-destructive testers, QAS, uh additive manufacturing, and a thing called CNC. They had 16 CNC machines at Northwick Naval Shipyard. I've got two. This part was produced in Danville, Virginia. It is a part required to fix a Hilo hanger door.
▶ 1:49:26When we went to go look at how to make that part or if it was available in the stock system, it was not. It would take 40 weeks to make this part through traditional means. Danville did it in 19 days. And if I did it tomorrow, it would be five days because I don't have to find the IP and get it running in the system and do a fitup. So to me, that is the promise. And we need to do that all over our country. Reptor, we talked about how this could happen in Ohio.
▶ 1:49:50That system is going to produce 900 people a year that at a 90% placement rate that go into the defense industrial base. That is the way to buy back our uh our system. So it has more tradesmen in it than than it than it has today. We used to have 33% of our workforce was was in that category. Now it's 11. My son's going to welding school at Northern Virginia Community College. I hope he goes to Danville, Virginia to get his cert.
▶ 1:50:20I I I'm very much looking to make the trades work and have been for now about 10 years and and invested quite a bit of uh money in trades in many of our states because I've seen this coming and hoping that when we get the trades going, it'll work fine. And 3D printing is a real solution.
▶ 1:50:44I just talked to a guy last night who's working uh he's he was it was at a event I was at in Austin uh where the and we uh he told me his his business was 3BD printing for the Navy. Thank Thank you. I was glad to hear that. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you chairman. Uh Miss Lee. Uh thank you. Uh thank you Mr. Secretary Admiral and General. It's uh nice to be with you.
▶ 1:51:13I wanted to ask quickly about the Fallon training range uh training complex which is undergoing a significant modernization uh project. Can um you outline uh where we are in this process, Admiral? Well, I I a lot of work um Congresswoman on that and and I'm appreciative of that to protect that range which is a worldclass range for us as you know.
▶ 1:51:40Not only do all our airwings get certified in there, but we've made an a significant milcon investment in a training facility to include other other communities in the Navy, the surface community as well as the aviation community in a live virtual constructive manner. So, which is that that's one of our seven targets, Congressman Case as well, is to increase the ability to conduct training anywhere we want, wherever we want on our ships and our ranges. So, Fallon is the centerpiece of Great.
▶ 1:52:09Um I just uh you spoke with uh our secretary uh Jackie Senator Jackie Rosen um during your confirmation hearing. Uh it's my understanding that the Navy is currently working to meet uh the requirement to give full compensation for grazing permit holders who are being displaced. Uh the current offer compensation I understand is said to be inadequate.
▶ 1:52:34And so, um, have you had an opportunity to review this and could you give an update to that where that stands? Uh, I'm planning to go out to Fallon, I think the end of this month or very early next month for myself to go see it. Uh, as you know, I'm trying to balance the fairness to the uh, grazing permit holders and the American taxpayer.
▶ 1:52:58I think that my understanding is the uh bid ask I'm going to call it is not that wide. Uh and we're trying to figure out how to collapse that down. Uh I don't have an update since then, but uh I figured I'm going to go there and try to see if I can get that. Thank you. Appreciate that. Um I wanted to just touch on force structure review as you were uh talking about the need to cut the bureaucracy. Uh I mean 56,000 acquisition personnel.
▶ 1:53:27Um you know we have but at the same time I'm hearing a incredible time compressing need to bring new capabilities AI uh directed energy autonomous systems. Um right now you have a hiring freeze. We have a deferred resignation program.
▶ 1:53:47I'm just wondering, you know, how are you managing and prioritizing who gets cut, who stays in light of this modernization need? So if you look at the workforce, there's basically about 12% of it trits every year and there was about another 8% that basically was in one year.
▶ 1:54:15So if you look at what they've really done is they've offered up money to those and a lot of people have taken advantage of it. Now we've identified all those areas that are critical where we cannot lose people. Uh and so that has not been offered to them. I think the next round is really to really make sure that we are rationalizing and making sure we're not le losing key people in other areas.
▶ 1:54:42To me, it's just a question of are there things that we can streamline and make it better. You you talk about AI and what it can do. It is an incredibly powerful tool. I I used it in in my business before I retired. Uh and it it I had the capability of about eight people when I was done training that system. Uh so it's very powerful and I think it can be used in different ways, but I think it's very additive to people.
▶ 1:55:09So again, it's it's it's a tool I think that that helps people. I can let the admiral kind of go into more specifics on on some of the other things as well. U we're working through those uh people that elected to take DRP right now. So we're really looking at the structure and saying how do we how do we make sense of this and get the organization we need? I I I'm a shipyard fan. We lost 198 people from our shipyards.
▶ 1:55:37But when I looked at the specificity and we're still analyzing what trades did we lose from was it overhead, was it direct labor, the the rough magnitude is two, you know, twice the number of people in overhead from the trades. So to me, there's an opportunity to rebalance here because we want that ratio to be 20% um indirect, 80% direct. and we were a little out of balance.
▶ 1:56:02So there's an opportunity here to rightsize the force, but we do need people like structural engineers to go adjudicate problems when we come across them. So we've got to come through that and do exactly what the secretary said and get the most effective organizations. So we're doing that work now. That's good to hear. Uh Mr. Elie, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here. Uh Admiral, you're wearing eight stars and you're not getting paid enough for it. And I just wanted to know want you to know you're doing a tremendous job.
▶ 1:56:30Uh general force design has finally escaped uh finally reached escape velocity and you've withstood the uh the attacks and uh and I'm glad to see that it's coming to fruition. And Mr. Secretary, I've never seen anybody work so hard, travel so much and learn as much as you have in only 50 days and taken on this gigantic job. Our entire top of the force structure in the Navy Marine Corps team is underst staffed. You're still waiting on folks and so are you. and you're doing a tremendous job.
▶ 1:56:57Our Navy, our joint force and our future combatant commanders need the Navy's sixth generation fighter or the FAXX as it's now called. Relying only on the Air Force's sixth gen fighter called the ENGAD or now the F-47, it doesn't solve our air superiority challenge. And neither does just CCA on the F-18 or F-35 off of aircraft carriers. I'm a fervent supporter of the F-47 and I would have done what was necessary to save it. It's basic math.
▶ 1:57:24We need more airframes, land-based and carrierbased, and we need to complicate our adversaries targeting. And we do that by outsticking them, or in other words, having aircraft that have longer range with weapons that have longer range so the carrier can stand off and hit the enemy before they can hit us. We do that with AIM 174B and CCA on Gen 6 Navy fighter. And industry is ready to do this no matter what anybody says.
▶ 1:57:53I'm kind of getting tired of the bureaucratic brigade delaying our mission to provide for the war fighters. We win with both the FAXS and the FAXX and ENGAD, not one or the other. A three-year delay is a de facto cancellation and a win for China. And Xiinping is watching. One of the reasons we're even having this conversation is because of a broken acquisition system and systems commands that slow us down. what DIU and AF works can do in weeks or months. NAVC takes years to do.
▶ 1:58:22They either need to get better or get doed. Let's start with the mandated flag officer reductions by focusing on the Navyyard, freeing up some housing space. So, Admiral Kilby, I just want you to you've already mentioned that the carrier is the most survivable airfield we have. Can you elaborate a little bit on range and what Gen 6 and and and 174 bring? Sure. The sixth gen fighter uh has some capabilities that we need to counter the PRC.
▶ 1:58:48Those are signatures, those are range, those are different engines, those are all the things um that will make it survivable. Uh the Air Force and Navy have different missions, but we're going against the same threat. So if that threat dictates a a a pivot to that sixth gen fighter, then the Navy and the Air Force and the Marine Corps and the Army and the Space Force need to bring all that to bear as a joint force to be capable. So I I mentioned the airwing of the future.
▶ 1:59:18This is kind of the lead sled dog with MQ25 to shape that out and understand what that looks like. Not only does a sixth gen fighter replace a fifth gen fighter, but it also replaces the Growler. So that's a electronic attack aircraft capability that's important in this fight because of the electronic warfare capability it brings. Absolutely. And I'd like to point out that the the Chinese are showing us what they've got and it's two Gen 6 fighters and they're building more aircraft carriers. So aircraft carriers are absolutely viable.
▶ 1:59:48Uh, General Smith, since we're talking about NAVC and all their fine work they're doing, can you share some more details on how the Marine Corps plans to fill the LSM gap until we and the Navy can deliver your suitable platform eight years late? Well, sir, I can. Um, what I would say is we are looking for something that we can get now landing ship as a replicant for a landing ship medium. Um, the landing ship medium is purposebuilt.
▶ 2:00:16Uh it's designed to move an inter and be an inter island connector. Uh in the short term, we're looking at using LCU 2000s. We're looking at using leased stern landing vessels so we can get our TTPs, our tactics, techniques, and procedures right until we can get the LSM that's purpose-built for us. I'd like to add we're also going to man two EPFs. So we have a challenge with our MSSE force.
▶ 2:00:42Now, I've committed to work with MSE to have a Civar crew on two EPFs that serve the Marine Corps in this role until we can cover down on this gap. Fantastic. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank the gentle, Miss Captor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Secretary. Congratulations to you.
▶ 2:01:06Uh and uh also uh Admiral Kilby and General Smith, thank you for your lifelong service to Liberty. Uh you are appreciated and all those you under your command. Um Secretary uh Felen, I think you are the first person that's ever come before this committee within the first paragraph uh of your formal presentation, you mentioned the term defense industrial base.
▶ 2:01:30Um, in the same paragraph, uh, you talked about the trips that you've taken, the valuable trips, uh, to the Atlantic coast and to the Pacific. Well, I come from industrial America. And when I heard defense industrial America, I thought, all right. Uh, and, um, we're not from the Gulf of America.
▶ 2:01:54We are Eerie in Ontario, Michigan, Superior, Hiron, and um back in World War II, uh Admiral Ernest King, who served as the um commander-in-chief of the US fleet and chief of naval operations, came from a place called Lraine, Ohio. And uh what I didn't hear you say, and I'm doing this purposely just because I have the moment.
▶ 2:02:18Um there are shipyards in Cleveland, Monroe, Marinette, Sturgeon Bay, Toledo, uh in our region, and we also have the phenomenal capabilities uh to make steel. We almost lost it, but we struggled to come back. And the Great Lakes are America's steel kingdom. We have all the strategic metals. Uh we have nuclear tooling and machining because of the nuclear industry and what we do with them. We have electric welding.
▶ 2:02:46Uh we have we make airframes, big ones. We do Mars boosters. The amount of talent this takes from people who actually do the work is extraordinary. And America left us behind. Uh so people might describe their districts as agricultural or tourism or um other skills but we are industrial America and we invite you to come see us sometime. Bring anyone you want.
▶ 2:03:17Um we tried to work with the department of defense in many ways to help in our school systems to attract younger people into some of the skills that are needed. that has been harder than the Mars booster. Um, so I mention this because you seem to care about that. We have underutilized shipyards. We have phenomenal workers. They do tooling. They do machining. They do things I can't do.
▶ 2:03:45When we repair, it's hard enough to make the Abrams tank, but then when you have to repair it, that takes you to a different level. And we have people that do that. So, America has a need and I just want to put our part of America on the map. Uh, thank you for listening to that request and you are welcome anytime. I also wanted to ask um and I don't know which of you gentlemen could answer this. Over the past year, the USS Truman has faced several incidents in the Red Sea.
▶ 2:04:11In December, an F-18 from the USS Truman, as you well know, was mistakenly shot down by the USS Gettysburg. And within the last 30 days, the same carrier lost two F18s to the ocean within a week of each other during operations against the Houthies. What might be done to prevent further such losses and ensure the safety of our service members in that region? Ma'am, I'll take this and and yield to the secretary. There are four incidents as you there's one other incident.
▶ 2:04:41There was a collision. All those incidents on Truman are under investigation right now. Accountability actions are being taken or will be taken. And when those are complete, I will come brief you. I commit to you to come brief you on those specific incidents. We are committed to learning what happened and preventing it from happening again.
▶ 2:05:01And so until those come out, I I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you we're going to build those types of scenarios that those ships and and aircraft were in and train to it when we do our composite unit training exercise, which certifies a strike group to deploy. Thank you, Admiral, very much. And uh finally, what steps are being taken to ensure the operations in regions like Sentcom and Yukcom are not undermined um by the increased focus on the Indoacific?
▶ 2:05:31I'm not against what you're doing in the Indo Pacific. Uh but how can the Navy maintain global maritime security uh in in uh uh SenCom and Yukcom with these other commitments? Well, ma'am, I just tell you that every one of those combatant commanders has a Navy uh assigned to it, a Navy component assigned to it. In the case of fifth fleet, that's the NavScent commander, Admiral Whiteoff, and the fifth fleet.
▶ 2:05:58and their job is to manage and operate those forces in the case of SenCom for General Carrilla. So that won't change. We are focused on uh the Pacific to be sure, but we're focused on wherever the nation calls us to go whether it be Yukcom, Sentcom, Southcom or Indopaccom. So you've got our commitment and we train our forces to be ready to do anything in any of those AOS. That's our rit to you. Thank you. Thank the gentle lady, Mr.
▶ 2:06:27And thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, again, glad to have you here today and enjoyed chatting with you earlier. The U Augustus partnership between the United States, uh, the UK, uh, and Australia is, uh, now in its fourth year. And since then we've made u a lot of progress on both pillar one for submarines and pillar two uh for uh advanced capabilities.
▶ 2:06:56What are some of the lessons that um um learned from the first couple of years and what can we expect for say for the next four years and um Mr. Secretary I'll uh I'll address this one to you. I'll give you my uh 50 days of observation and then probably pass it off to Admiral Kilby. Uh okay. But I think what I would say is is look, I I think it's an important they're important allies.
▶ 2:07:27Uh I think we're learning a lot. Uh just trying to figure out how to do this together. I would say from my own perspective, some of the questions I've been trying to understand is how much brain power is this taking from us?
▶ 2:07:40because subs are very important and how we do it and and and how we produce these, but also being able to do um you know bases and repairs in another country I think is a good skill set for us to learn and understand better and I believe we're learning from that and learning how to how to build things. I'm still trying to assess the real costs of this to us, not just dollars and cents, but brain power.
▶ 2:08:10And so, you I look forward to chatting with you guys. Let me ask you this. Would you support an AUS collaborative campus uh that would bring together our three nations whose focus would be promoting uh further cooperation and meeting both our pillar one and pillar two objectives of the United States? I you know look I think it's an interesting idea to look at. It's harder for me to answer because I think you've got a lot of distance and you know we have Australians currently I think at our base in Pearl Harbor.
▶ 2:08:40Um and it's moving faster with them right now than the UK. So campus I I think I'd have to understand the concept a little better and look at it. So I think it's certainly worth looking at but I'd like to let ad specifics sir there's tech sharing we've got to work through from a lessons learned perspective uh for a pillar one I think we've got it about right with our schooling now just kind of lay give you the layown of where we're at we've got a 100 Royal Australian navies in our nuke pipeline
▶ 2:09:10right now those are our schools so they benefit by graduating from the schools ultimately they'll have to create their own school for now we've got 120 uh Australians in Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard and then uh and then the conduct of uh avails together in Sterling is important.
▶ 2:09:28So I think that campus idea just not knowing it fully would be more aligned to pillar two than pillar one because uh our system that conveyor belt needs to keep working and and I don't know that we're the Navy we want to change our process right now from nuclear production and how we qualify our enlisted sailors and officers. So, we'd really have to look at that to see if there's mutual benefit. Okay, before my time runs out, just want to mention that of course many think of Alabama as an army and space state.
▶ 2:09:59Uh, but support for the Navy is large and it's actually growing. I'm especially encouraged by the recent investments that are in Mobile down on our coast uh to expand our nation's u maritime industrial base in support of such critical missions as submarine production and AUS. uh since the initial investment in September of 24 uh what are the next steps to develop the uh mobile Navy yard site and expand the shield building capacity there?
▶ 2:10:29Well, I think AR I mean also has done a great job turning those investments and they've uh they're going to contribute to that 2.33 problem we talked about earlier by producing modules for our submarine uh construction. I think there's other opportunities too sir in the unmanned world.
▶ 2:10:48So when we think about a hybrid fleet which is going to have traditional manned destroyers, frig just like we're talking about aircraft unmanned, there are unmanned ships that could be built at non-traditional shipyards right now that could be very helpful to us. One of our focus areas is non-traditional sea denial and that's the delivery of unmanned capabilities undersea on the surface and in the air that can help in a in a 2027 scenario in the Western Pacific.
▶ 2:11:18So I think there's a lot of opportunity there to expand in in non-traditional vendors and shipyards. Thank you. I think my time's expired. I yield back. Thank the gentleman, Mr. Morelli. Yes. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the ranking member. Uh and thank you gentlemen for not only for being here for your service. Uh if I could uh just follow up um Mr.
▶ 2:11:39Adhold's uh uh uh question Admiral um can you talk about the integration of autonomous systems and unmanned systems with with man systems um I know it's an attempt to reduce risk to personnel uh distribute operations expand maritime uh domain awareness.
▶ 2:12:00What have you learned over the last several years in terms of the development and experimentation about how um what insights have you learned and and and sort of how have you used that and will it influence uh the long-term integration of autonomous systems and man systems. So sir we we have um three fleet areas principally that are working this now task force 59 and fifth fleet task force 66 and sixth fleet and fourth fleet. Now there are different needs for those.
▶ 2:12:29I would tell you necessity is the mother of invention. So Admiral Cooper when he was the fifth fleet commander found himself ship poor. So he invested in unmanned technologies to do maritime domain awareness with things like a sail drone which is a persistent vessel that can do maritime domain awareness. Similarly fourth fleet has adopted that.
▶ 2:12:48The work being done in the six fleet is interesting because it ports right over to support Admiral Kaylor and Admiral Paparo in the Indo-Pacific because those same technologies can be used there in a manner that's effective. So it's almost a battle lab for the Indo-Pacific. So there's learning across all our fleets. The geography drives the use case for what you need for that. But our initial focus is this thing called non-traditional sea denial.
▶ 2:13:13Ultimately though, I want to get to a hybrid fleet that that engages our unmanned capabilities alongside our ships supporting our submarines in the airwing of the future for man to unmanned teaming. So to me, that's the future state and and last week I was in San Diego with Admiral Paparo and Admiral Kaylor looking at their experimentation and rehearsal of these very technologies. Um, thank you. I appreciate that.
▶ 2:13:41I I I want to maybe if I can just expand on the uh IndoPacific and and the use um undersea dominance I understand is critical to deterrence and force Um I'm concerned about what appears to be a little bit of a mismatch between rising demand for anti-ubmarine war cap capabilities and relatively flat funding for key enablers like Sonob buoys. I think I'm saying that right. It's a weird word.
▶ 2:14:08Um, inventory levels are reportedly well below uh the global floor, which raises questions about anti-ubmarine warfare. Could you just I think you're you're spot on. We got ourselves in a in a in a non effective position for son manufacturers, but we've increased our sonobies for everything but the Mac buoy now. So, we want to get back to that global fort. We will continue investing. We appreciate your support in that investment and it's a key enabler for us uh to invest in.
▶ 2:14:38But now we have two companies Sparta and Loheed Martin that are individually producing sons. They're not producing something that have to be married up together. I think that's a much better solution. And my last stats are about 7% increase is what we're shooting for every year. So I think that is an area we definitely need to continue to invest in. Very good. Um I just wanted to come back to something.
▶ 2:14:59I'm I'm new to this committee and when we had Secretary Driscoll um I think he said something and I'm paraphrasing essentially that there were 35,000 people in the uh in the army related to acquisitions but upon further conversation turned out that it seemed like there were about 5,000 the rest were engineers and people were involved with sustainment. So Mr. Secretary when you say that there's 56,000 people help educating me what what does that mean?
▶ 2:15:26Are they actually all doing acquisitions or are they doing other things that relate to sustainment and and making sure that the engineering and the contracts etc are appropriate? Thank you for the question, Congressman. There's actually close to 80,000 if you count uh third party and contractors, but the total number is 55,833 of which 51,438 are civilian. In cost estimating, there's 700.
▶ 2:15:55In financial management, 2,127. In contracting, there's 7,959. In engineering and technical management, there's 27,031. In lifestyle logistics, there's 7,154. In program management, there's 7,483. Test and evaluation is 2,990. Other, which I'm still waiting for, is 389.
▶ 2:16:23So, and and I see I'm out of time and I apologize. Perhaps we could get a just a definition of what all those areas are and what your when the appropriations request comes in, uh, how that will match up against those. Be happy to follow up with you on it. Thank you. I yield back, sir. Thanks, gentlemen, for that answer. Uh, Mr. Flashman, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thank you for your testimony today. Very, very helpful to me. I'm relatively new to the defense appropriation subcommittee.
▶ 2:16:50I've chaired energy and water which of course has the NNSA portfolio so very involved with our our nuclear arsenal. Uh little point of privilege. Um Admiral Kilby, I want to thank you.
▶ 2:17:03Um our office asked uh for a defense fellow and um we finally got one and it is uh Lieutenant U David's who is behind me doing a great job, an Annapolis grad and um done a great job at Navy aviator, but he's been so helpful to me in a lot of the conversations we've been having. So, it is vicarious to you in the Navy that I say thank you for that. Yes, sir.
▶ 2:17:33Um, I'm going to ask a question about the Navy's demand for tactical nuclear weapons. As chairman of Energy and Water, uh, I have the NNSA facility in the Y12 security complex in my district. I'm very interested in the health and effectiveness of our nuclear capabilities. Our boomers uh sir are the survivable leg of the triad and they will continue to be a critical deterrent to nuclear armed adversaries.
▶ 2:18:00I believe non-strategic nuclear weapons are a vital complement to our credible deterrent in the Pacific. I'm a strong proponent of the nuclear sea launch cruise missile program and I believe it's essential that we quickly provide Indoaccom with flexible capability to deter adversary escalation. The ability to deploy non-strategic nuclear warheads on a fasttrack submarine and perhaps eventually surface ships greatly increases our credibility.
▶ 2:18:30Recognizing Serb that we are limited on our launch tubes afloat, it is only necessary to have a small number of tactical nuclear weapons to significantly complicate our adversaries decision calculus. I think given this this dangerous capability gap, the emphasis should be on speed. We do not need to reinvent the wheel when we're talking about a capability we recently had in service only 15 years ago.
▶ 2:18:58My question, sir, um to to both Secretary Finland and Admiral Kilby, can you share your vision for the slack program with this committee? and how is the Navy working to ensure this program does not stall in development purgatory for years when we need a capability as soon as possible? And I'll defer to your answers. Uh thanks for your question, sir. I I share your opinion.
▶ 2:19:23I've had a couple of uh sessions with Vice Admiral Johnny Wolf, who is the the the strategic programs office lead, who will produce this. He's on target for a a new production by 2035. But to your point, he's looked at some alternatives and uh we haven't totally briefed the secretary on those yet, but he's looking at speed and and an urgency to get something out sooner.
▶ 2:19:49So, uh so we we need to come through that with our secretary, but I think there's some some possibilities there that we can work to. Yes, sir. Mr. look, I I think that's it's an important strategic deterrent and gives the president uh more flexibility and options. uh uh to have uh both for tactical nuclear attacks or non-uclear attacks.
▶ 2:20:13So uh it's something that I think is an important component to the force and and one that I look forward to learning more with the admiral on now that I learned I don't know what's going on with it, but I will find out. Yes, sir. Thank you. Um in my remaining waning time, I'd like to talk about the logist logistic Um, I spend most of my time in Congress focused on energy. I'm energy and water chair, all forms of of energy.
▶ 2:20:43Um, and in 2022, the Navy made a decision to defuel the Red Hill bulk fuel storage facility in Hawaii. This removed a strategic fuel reserve of over 250 million gallons of fuel for military operations in the Pacific. My question for whoever would like to answer please is what is your assessment of the sustainability of our supply chains for both our aviation fuel and ship fuel in the context of a protracted conflict in the Pacific?
▶ 2:21:12What changes or investments does our Navy need to make to ensure we can adequately supply our ships and aircrafts in a protracted war? Now take a whack at this. So we need to have a distributed system. Um, I visited Red Hill. We're committed to doing the work we've uh agreed to do there and we'll continue to complete it by 2028 and all the remediation that happens there.
▶ 2:21:36But we need to find other sites and distribute them around the Indo Pacific to make it hard for China, right? We don't want to make it easy for them. So that those can be mobile things. They can be like tankers and super tankers. They could be uh fuel bladders that I've talked about with my good partner General Smith, but there are ways to resustain ourselves in a different manner that makes it hard for the adversary to confound us. So, we're committed to that.
▶ 2:22:04There's alternate sites we need to look at for for those fuel stoages in the Pacific as well. Thank you, gentlemen. And I thank the gentleman, Mr. Diaz Ballard. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And thank you gentlemen for what what you do for our country. Um let me follow up on what Mr.
▶ 2:22:25Elie questioned about and talked about and and whether it's fifth generation, sixth generation, manned or unmanned because there's there are open reports out there saying that you know there could be a potential delay of getting of fielding the aircraft needed for our carriers. Uh do you feel confident that that's not going to be the case regardless of what that mix is and you've talked about that?
▶ 2:22:52Are you confident that whatever decision is made uh that that you will be able to have adequate platforms uh on our carriers with no delay? With no delay for that or are we looking at another delay because you know decisions have to be made? Are you asking in general? Are you asking with Well, I mean, again, without getting it because we're here, right?
▶ 2:23:20But but but open sources talk about how we may be looking at, you know, having some pretty serious, you know, three-year delays on on fielding what we may need to be fielding for aircraft Look, I I think as I as I said earlier, we're still trying to sort through the appropriate force posture and the appropriate balance between manned and unmanned and what that should look like.
▶ 2:23:45I don't think we can ignore swarm drone technology and where it's going to go and how fast it's going to develop and what that means and what the implications are for the force and sixth gen uh and fighters. Currently our carrier is I think very very good. Uh it's a mobile platform. It works very very well. Uh we will continue to develop that posture and that idea and be able to pivot hopefully as quick as possible.
▶ 2:24:13So I think we are still analyzing and looking at it but uh I do not believe we're going to do anything that would jeopardize the uh uh the vulnerability of a carrier. Right. I mean you again do you all feel confident about that that we're not going to in you know two three years down the road oops you know we don't have the capability we don't have the platforms whatever that mix may be on our carriers that we need well I guess in a reality situation
▶ 2:24:43to be clear the sixth gen fighter isn't going to come by January 1st 2027 it's going to take time to develop that and right and build it into the future so the three-year or is a is a delay if we started the program late, but it would deliver far into the future. But we've got to commit to that because we're going to have aircraft carriers are going to live in this contested environment.
▶ 2:25:05And that's my um my operational assessment that we need an airwing of the future that does everything the secretary just described for the reasons he described it to pace the threat. So in three years we're going to deliver the fa the fleet we have to be as capable it is as it can be uh to counter the PRC and then we need to build that future fleet moving forward. Would the gentleman from Florida yield on a budget question? Of course I would.
▶ 2:25:35Thank you. Uh so it came out this morning that uh in FY25 we appropriated $453 million. The Navy doesn't have that under contract. And now we're understanding OSD is trying to say that they don't want the 500 million in the reconciliation. Uh they want that pulled from the bill.
▶ 2:26:00So I think that's why budgetarily we have some of the questions that we have. So is it true that we don't have the contract signed? Is that imminent to be signed or is that not going to be signed? And then has OSD asked for um the 500 um million to come out of the reconciliation bill because that that that's in part why you're getting these questions.
▶ 2:26:29The budget numbers are all over the place to be perfectly honest and we're s we're sitting down having meetings daily on different topics and different things. Um I don't have a great answer for you as it relates to it. Uh it's a uh something a number of different programs we're going through is being debated just like we went through with the Virginia class contract. Understand it, Mr. Secretary.
▶ 2:26:53But when we appropriate money 453, million25 just for that, that's what that money is for and it's not it's it's Congress doesn't make it funible for it to be used in other places. So that's why you're getting the question and we'll follow up with you on that. Thank you so much. I think of of course pleasure to yield to the to the ranking member. Now I I I will be very very I'll get rid of some of the questions that I had because I some of my time is let me we you've taken questions about the direct energy.
▶ 2:27:23I'll give the gentleman a couple. Well, I'll be No, I'll be very brief, Mr. Chairman. And because I I was going to talk about the sunny sonois and that that seems to be a kind of a bright spot. I understand. Uh torpedoes as well is what I'm hearing that at least it's a step in the right direction. All right.
▶ 2:27:39So, uh, direct energy, uh, are you and and Admiral, you you mentioned that before and you're you answered the question and are are you all I've heard um that for example the Israelis have some kind of new technology which is really really interesting potentially requires less energy or whatever it may be. Are you looking at other alternatives? And by the way, and if you are, are you able to if in fact there's a good alternative? I'm not saying there is, but there isn't.
▶ 2:28:09Are you able to tap into, for example, if there was an alternative the Israelis might have to be able to uh to tap into that? We want to get a workable technology to be effective as in the maritime environment for counter UAS and other things. I'm a I'm open to all that technology and doing it rapidly. I have to work through the steps in the bureaucracy to do that, but I want to be open to it and exposed to it.
▶ 2:28:35So um yes there could be high-owered microwave could be another technology for us to be effective in that space. So all that is what I call a renewable magazine where I don't have to load weapons to do that. So that's our focus is to have ability to defend our ships so we can use our highowered or expensive munitions for offense not defense. Yeah.
▶ 2:28:58But again, if if there were some an ally, I'm just saying the Israelis, do you have the ability to procure something from an ally on something? I probably don't and have to work through that, but I do believe that the time is right and the and the indications are that we can look at things differently and hopefully be more effective and agile. I'm hopeful of that. Yeah. Just just please keep us in mind if you think that there's something that we can do that to help you be more flexible on things like that.
▶ 2:29:27if it may if it if it makes sense obviously. Anyways, Mr. Chairman, you've been generous with the with my time. I thank you. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Valo. Thank you, Chairman. Uh, thank you to our guests for being here today and I appreciate your service to our country. Admiral Kilby, the Eisenhower Oh, I'm sorry. Let me start off with a little more question.
▶ 2:29:47Uh, Admiral Kilby, how is the Navy addressing the combat search and rescue gap in the Pacific, particularly as aircraft crews face longer range missions missions and self-supported recoveries without close support of full combat search and rescue task force as seen in previous I will have to take that question for the record and get back to you for some specifics. I do believe this is in our contested logistics space and we're looking at how we do this at scale with large numbers of people.
▶ 2:30:15But I will take that question for the record and get back. Appreciate that. I've been hearing that a little bit from uh from my home district base. So uh and then another question for Admiral Kilby. The Eisenhower carrier strike group fired nearly 800 missiles during the its deployment to the Red Sea at a cost of about a billion dollars to counter Houthy threats. What is the Navy's plan to pursue more effective or more cost-effective and scalable methods to address these types of asymmetric threats? And how are you ensuring greater transparency and operational reporting going forward?
▶ 2:30:45Well, let me take the first part. Um I I spoke about this a little bit, but um we found ourselves in a position where uh those captains did what they had to do to knock down a threat and they used expensive missiles to do it and they used and they've done it and are continuing to do it quite effectively. We want to to provide them an alternative where they can defend their ships and and other bases and allies in a cheaper, more effective method.
▶ 2:31:10So that could be things like um a high-owered microwave or a high velocity projectile or a coyote weapon system from Rathon that we got from the army and bolted on that system or a hellfire longbow missile. So those are things we're in process with experimenting on the um on the Ford strike group which we'll deploy next. If effective, then we'll procure them at scale.
▶ 2:31:35But ultimately, we want to get to the end state we just talked about where I have a relatively renewable, rechargeable way to have terminal defense and have husband my magazines for that offensive capability. All right. Well, thank you. As the Marine Corps has looked to leverage artificial intelligence to uh speed up decision-m and optimize operations, how are you balancing rapid acquisition of these technologies with the need to keep the Marines in control of final decisions?
▶ 2:32:01And how are you preparing Marines to confidently challenge or override AI generated recommendations when necessary? Yes, sir. We're we're using our Marine Corps systems command uh and frankly we're using um our combat development integration command in Quantico to go after AI. Um we we leverage all of the DoD AI artificial intelligence agencies. Um we are always in control. We there's always a human on the loop. There doesn't have to be a human in the loop.
▶ 2:32:31There has to be a human on the loop who can allow can leverage the autonomy that's that's brought by an AI system. We have to just determine where the human is on the loop. So I I believe we're doing it. Um I believe that our systems command and our folks in Quantico keep us well apprised of how we can leverage artificial intelligence for better decision- making, more rapid fielding, and frankly more rapid uh responses.
▶ 2:32:59We we don't you don't need a human to direct the missile be fired. You need to have a human direct the system to fire at an inbound missile when it's descending below 4,000 ft and closing in on your ship. The sea whiz, the Vulcan failanks has activated. It has permission already. There just got to be a human on the loop. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Back to Admiral Kilby. Can you provide an update on the progress of Operation Cattle Drive, particularly regarding the modernization of the Navy's IT systems?
▶ 2:33:28How many vulnerable legacy systems have been decommissioned to date and which key systems are currently being prioritized for transition and onboarding? I'll have to take that question for the record. I'm embarrassed to tell you I don't even know what operation cattle drive is. So, I'll get back to you. Well, when I get to the end of my uh get to the food chain down the food chain where I'm at, we've run out of questions to ask. So, someday I guess when I'm further up, I get to ask some more. You get a gold star for stumping the admiral.
▶ 2:33:58All right, I got a couple more seconds here. Uh, back to the Marine Corps. With the establishment of the Marine Corps's attack drone team and growing demand for lowcost armed first-person view drones, how long will it take to fully equipped all registered Marine Corps formations? And how quickly can these systems be filled compared to more traditional costly platforms? Uh, I I don't have a good answer for how long it will take. The answer is we're not fielding them fast enough. I was just visiting our attack drone team a couple of weeks ago. what they're doing with lowcost attrales is stunning.
▶ 2:34:27Um they're they're you know turning hundreds of dollars of systems against thousands of dollars of inbound uh inbound drones or against adversary troop formations. Um so I don't have an answer for you, but what I can tell you is we can't additive manufacture them fast enough. Ukrainians are doing it on the cheap and we're trying to keep ours on the cheap, too. We're trying to make sure we build a Ford F-150 pickup truck, not a Denali.
▶ 2:34:54And so, um, we're building these as fast as we can, but I would invite you, Congressman, down to our attack drone team at Quantico to get you a a firsthand view of what we're doing. We've invested the manpower and the brain power through our Marine Corps Systems Command. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you again for your time, chairman. I yield back. Thank the gentleman. Recognize the ranking member for any closing comments. Well, I want to thank the three of you for uh being here today. And um, Mr. secretary. Um, A+.
▶ 2:35:21Um, I know that you're very serious about getting back to us on the questions on personnel and the rest. I look forward to it. Um, and then I'm going to submit some questions. Some of them actually have to do I don't we back to calling it sea level rise rather than climate change. I don't I'm not sure. Or climate resilience. But it my questions are going to focus on what's happening in the Arctic uh and installations, perafrost, all those things that are going to affect what you can do up there.
▶ 2:35:48Um and then uh the chairman and I, as you know, are very interested in what we can do as far as moving forward with doing some ice breakers. And then also a question for the Marines on the Arctic. I want to make sure being from the the high north, the bold north, whatever you want to call Minnesota these days.
▶ 2:36:04I want to make sure that when you're out there u participating in exercises that you have everything that you need to practice, do your mission so that when you're out there doing it in real time that you can uh come home safely with no frostbite included. So with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you so Thank you. Thank the gentle lady. Uh before I want to conclude, I want to thank all of you.
▶ 2:36:30Uh Secretary Failen, Admiral Kilby, General Smith for your testimony today. Um and obviously all the subcommittee members are welcome to submit questions for the record and I would hopefully you can uh respond in a reasonable time frame. One thing I just want on the close is obviously you heard a lot about the the Gen 6 fighter. I think you know we've had air dominance 1942. Um, and we hope to keep it that way.
▶ 2:36:58Uh, our men and women are on the on the ground don't have to look up. Uh, now maybe with drones, they're constantly going to look up, but uh, certainly with high performance aircraft and be able to to control the air is extremely important. And I know you have some short-term decisions you have to make here uh, pretty soon in order to uh, meet the requirements of these contracts.
▶ 2:37:24Um but uh we have a as you know well know a fighter uh shortfall. I'm not quite we'll probably put that question for the record how big a shortfall we have and obviously last couple of months we've lost three uh three F-18s and um uh that line is shutting down as you all know. We're gone the last the last of the eight eight F-18s under under construction. F-35 are not getting as many as we had hoped.
▶ 2:37:53Uh so uh and you know we're we're going to be we're gonna we're well underway on the Enterprise and the aircraft aircraft carriers and so we're going to be flying off aircraft carriers for a long time to come. So uh and these are important decisions. I know you're taking it seriously and uh we'll submit some questions for the record. We certainly appreciate you being here today. And with that we are adjourned. Is that all right?