▶ 0:21:05Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure will come to order. I'd ask unanimous consent that the chairman be authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's hearing without objection. That is so ordered. As a reminder, if members insert a document into the record, please also email it to documents TEI at mail.house.gov. I now recognize myself for uh the purposes of an opening Tomorrow marks the one-year anniversary of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 being signed into law.
▶ 0:21:36And in crafting the law, the committee received and processed more than 2100 stakeholder and member requests. We held five detailed policy hearings in the leadup to introduction and produced a bipartisan product that that garnered the support of more than a thousand aviation organizations and companies. When all was said and done, the final bill passed with the support of 387 members of the Congress and 88 senators. Not many pieces of legislation enjoy that kind of uh bipartisan support.
▶ 0:22:06And that bill, now law, touched just about everything in the aviation industry, including a strong and robust aviation safety title that included reforms to address close calls and near misses. A workforce title that addresses your challenges um head-on by removing barriers for veterans and young individuals looking to begin a career in civil aviation, including bolstering the air traffic control workforce.
▶ 0:22:30an airport infrastructure title that increased the airport improvement program for the first time in over a decade and streamline environmental per uh permitting process. A new entrant title crafted to maintain American leadership in this emerging sector and a passenger experience title that was aimed at improving travel for all Americans. Furthermore, it's a personal point of pride for me that the law included the very first ever GA title.
▶ 0:22:57General aviation is the foundation of our nation's aviation system. In fact, it's where many of our pilots and our mechanics and other hardworking aviation professionals, it's where they begin career. Put simply, the law recognized the importance of general aviation and protected the freedom to fly for every single American.
▶ 0:23:17While the committee has been conducting oversight to ensure that the congressional intent is upheld, today's hearing represents the first time that members will be able to hear from the Federal Aviation Administration in the Government Accountability Office on their progress. And I'm pleased the FAA has worked ex expeditiously to implement several key provisions in the GA title.
▶ 0:23:38Additionally, with heightened attention being placed on the need to modernize our air traffic control system, an initiative that all in this room support, the reauthorization bill gave the FAA flight plan now that they have to start uh the plane and actually follow it. To aid that effort, Republicans on this committee came together and approved recon a reconciliation package that appropriates 12.5 billion dollars to the FAA for ATC modernization.
▶ 0:24:06This 12.5 billion investment is going to provide a significant down payment on the administration's plan to overhaul and modernize the ATC system. And I look forward to working uh with them on this effort. And I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for um for being here today. And I look forward to hearing from each of you on the progress that the FAA and the GAO has made in implementing um this milestone legislation. With that, I recognize ranking member Larson for his opening statement.
▶ 0:24:35Thank you, Chair Graves, for calling today's oversight hearing on the implementation of the landmark 2024 FA reauthorization law. One year ago today, Congress took decisive action to improve aviation safety, foster aerospace innovation, grow the aviation workforce, and better protect the flying public. While the FAA is making progress in implementing the law, recent tragic aviation accidents and close calls make clear the administration must prioritize the critical safety reforms included in the reauthorization.
▶ 0:25:06The immense loss that occurred from the tragic midair collision at Washington National Airport, DCA, highlights the need for the FA and Congress to recommmit to enhancing the safety of the national airspace system and restoring the flying public's confidence in that system. Unfortunately, recent events have shown problems we are seeing in the aviation industry extend much further than the issues led to the heartbreaking plane crash on January 29th.
▶ 0:25:31Shortly after this crash, there were several other fatal commercial crashes or safety accidents like in Alaska, Philadelphia, Arizona, and other places around the country. In this last six weeks alone, there have been an ongoing series of high-profile troubling accidents, including a helicopter conducting commercial air tours crashing in the Hudson River. Two loss of separation events at commercial airline flight.
▶ 0:25:56Wing tips of a bombardier CRJ900 striking embraer E71 175 on the taxiway DCA. The FA's NOTM system which provides essential real-time updates on conditions affecting flight safety experiencing sudden outages and at least three separate instances of ATC equipment failures affecting Newark airport alone resulting in hundreds of delays and cancellations.
▶ 0:26:20The American people are justifiably outraged and demand the FAA do more to make our system safer and more reliable, and we want to help. It's also been true the US strives to be the gold standard in aviation safety, but that statement can ring hollow to some when there are almost daily reports of serious close calls or system failures. One of the most immediate and effective long-term solutions FA can do right now is to make our to make our system safer is to swiftly implement the 2024 law.
▶ 0:26:49That law passed by this Congress in a bipartisan uh manner, as uh the chair has noted, provides the FAA with a five-year roadmap on how the administration can address many of the safety issues we've recently seen. We gave you the um what needs to be done list, and now you're we're in the how-to stage, and that's up to the FA to uh to to implement. For instance, earlier this week, it was reported that flight delays at a Newark airport were in part due to only three controllers being on duty at the time, even though the staffing target was 14.
▶ 0:27:19Although the FA is working to hire the maximum number of controllers in the AY's ATC training academy as required by the law, the agency has yet to modernize staffing models for controllers and other aviation safety roles to meet the evolving needs of the NAS. There have also been several recent misses and runway incursions at airports across the country, including DCA, Seattle, Chicago, and Boston.
▶ 0:27:41The reauthorization law requires the FAA to establish the runway safety council, which would develop new strategies to address airport surface safety risks, identify and deploy airport surveillance um airport surface surveillance technologies to all large and mediumhub airports, and conduct a review of existing systems to assess how legacy technologies can be improved.
▶ 0:28:02And the law could help prevent future ATC disruptions, such as the recent NOTM outage and numerous ATC system failures that recently impacted Newark Airport through its requirement that the FAA audit its legacy ATC systems and make immediate improvements to any system deemed outdated or unsafe. The there are policies the FAA should be considering that were not included in the law as well. For instance, just last week, the secretary announced a proposal that will help fund the modernization of of new ATC facilities, systems, and equipment.
▶ 0:28:31We have yet to receive a proposed budget for this proposal and such an important and costly plan will require vigorous oversight, but I do encourage the committee members to take a look at what the secretary is proposing because I do believe it is a very positive step forward. I look forward to working with the chair to develop bipartisan legislation that will help modernize the system.
▶ 0:28:53Unfortunately, the administration's actions to shrink the federal workforce will undermine the FA's ability to implement the reauthorization law and could jeopardize aviation safety. For instance, over the last several months, the administration has fired several hundred FA probationary employees, signed buyouts with over 4,000 DOT employees, nearly half of which are from the FAA, and threatened FA and other employees with unproductive email requests. And earlier this month, the administration announced it will conduct additional layoffs at DOT.
▶ 0:29:22These layoffs could prevent not just the implementation of critical safety reforms, including in the FA bill law, but also prevent DOT from fixing the various challenges currently plaguing our aviation system. So, one question is very clear that I need to ask is how can the administration expect to fix the ATC system when it's pushing out the very people that support, operate, and maintain the ATC system. to grow the workforce, invest in deploying safety technologies, protect the flying public.
▶ 0:29:50This administration must stay focused on implementation of the law as we passed it. The many reports of aviation accidents are a solemn reminder we can't delay fixing issues that we have the power to solve now. Today is an important opportunity to learn about more about what the FA is imple today's an opportunity to learn more about how the FA is implementing the law and other actions the agency must take to ensure safer skies for the flying public. Thank you shar with that back.
▶ 0:30:19So again I want to welcome our witnesses here and uh briefly I want to take a moment to explain the the lighting system. Basically, green means go and yellow means you're running out of time and and red means um please conclude your remarks. With that, I'd ask unanimous consent that all witnesses full statements be included in the record. And without objection, that is so ordered. I'd ask unanimous consent that the record at today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions that might be submitted to them in writing. And without objection, that is so ordered.
▶ 0:30:50I'd ask unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments and information submitted by members or our witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing. And without objection, that is so ordered. As your written testimony has been made a part of the record, the committee asks that you limit your uh oral remarks to five minutes. And with that, we'll start um with Miss Baker, who's the deputy associate administrator for aviation safety. You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:31:17Thank you very much, Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larson, members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to share some updates regarding the FAA's efforts to implement the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024. The FAA has made significant progress in implementing the act's several hundred requirements during the past year.
▶ 0:31:36Together with the my colleagues from the air traffic organization and the office of airports here with me today, I will highlight several of these accomplishments regarding direction to improve the FAA's communication and timely decision-making on matters before the agency. So far, we have reduced the aircraft registration backlog and applications are now processed within an average of 10 business days or less.
▶ 0:32:00We also shortened the time frame for determining acceptance or rejection of air carrier, air operator and air agency applications. We have improved the guidance that our inspector workforce uses while planning for production approval holder inspections. We are also enhancing the processing and analysis ofa of safety data.
▶ 0:32:21Specifically, the aviation safety information analysis and sharing system has incorporated advanced tools to process safety data more rapidly and produce safety intelligence to identify trends and mitigate risks as we enhance the safety of the national airspace system for current users. We are also focused on integrating new and emerging aviation technologies, including advanced air mobility.
▶ 0:32:46Last month, Secretary Duffy announced the Center for Advanced Aviation Technologies to be operated by the Texas&M University system. The center will play a pivotal role advancing aviation technologies, ensuring safe integration into the NAS, and drive innovation in aviation. The FAA is ready for powered lift, the first brand new category of civil aircraft in almost a century.
▶ 0:33:09Last year, the FAA issued the special federal aviation regulation on powered lift instructor and pilot certification, pilot training, and operating rules. President Trump and Secretary Duffy made clear their priority to deliver an all-new state-of-the-art air traffic control system that makes air travel safer and more efficient for the American people.
▶ 0:33:30Last week, Secretary Duffy announced a plan to replace core infrastructure, including radar, software, hardware, telecommunications networks, and facilities. The FAA has already accelerated the modernization of the notice to airman system. We expect delivery by July of 2025 and are targeting deployment by September of The FAA must recruit, train, and retain the best and brightest.
▶ 0:33:59Consistent with congressional direction in the act, the FAA is laser focused on air traffic controllers and aviation safety inspectors. We are updating controller staffing targets across facilities to reflect FAA NATCO workg groupoup negotiated levels. Under Secretary Duffy's leadership, we accelerated the time to hire and streamlined the controller hiring process through targeted automation and process improvements.
▶ 0:34:24We are offering financial incentives to grow the new controller pipeline and retain our most experienced controllers. And we are using on the spot hiring authority for experienced military controllers to join the workforce. The FAA is leveraging partnerships with colleges and universities to create another pipeline for controllers through the enhanced air traffic collegiate initiative. We expect these investments to assist staffing at critical federal contract towers as we grow the workforce.
▶ 0:34:55Aviation safety inspectors are frontline in safety oversight and are essential to execute our safety mission. The use of direct hire authority for exac example on the spot hiring authority has enabled the FAA to continue targeted recruitment for these missionritical positions and accelerate the hiring process for our nation's airports.
▶ 0:35:15We have updated airport improvement plan guidance that will benefit airport operators and we are continuing to support the transition to florine-free firefighting foam and updating guidance for vertaports which will support the integration of a am. We have made substantial progress implementing requirements aimed at eliminating dangerous runway incidents. Since November of 2024, the FAA has added the surface awareness initiative at 18 sites.
▶ 0:35:40We have more than 30 additional sites planned to go operational by the end of calendar year 2025 and we are rolling out new enhanced safety technology at more than 70 airports. The FAA is committed to implementing the FAA reauthorization act. We are confident we are making substantial and meaningful progress and we intend to keep Congress advised of that progress and we look forward to your questions. Let's see. Next we have Mr.
▶ 0:36:08Collins who's the director of physical infrastructure GAO recognized for five minutes. Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larson, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss JO's work related to FA's efforts to implement the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024. The act communicates congressional direction for how FA should carry out aspects of its mission and helps ensure the safety and efficiency of the national airspace system.
▶ 0:36:36The act also contains 36 mandates for go to undertake various studies and requires that FA implement various go recommendations related to our past work. While FA has taken several actions to implement the act, my remarks will highlight challenges FA faces modernizing the national airspace system and enhancing the aviation workforce, as well as JO's recent and ongoing work in these areas and our open recommendations.
▶ 0:37:04Our recent work related to airspace modernization has focused on the condition of legacy IT systems and nextgen implementation. In September 2024, we reported that 76% of FAA's 138 air traffic control systems were unsustainable or potentially unsustainable and that FAA had been slow to modernize these systems.
▶ 0:37:28Our November 2023 report on the status of nextgen modernization efforts found that since 2018 FA had made mixed progress across NextG programs. We made a total of 11 recommendations in these two reports to help FA address modernization delays and challenges. Of these, nine have not yet been fully implemented. However, FAA has actions underway to address them.
▶ 0:37:58Our recent work related to air traffic controller staffing and enhancing the aviation workforce has focused on addressing employee skills gaps. We have three open recommendations that aim to ensure FA's workforce has the needed skills and to help FA prepare for changes in technology.
▶ 0:38:16FA concurred with these recommendations and has various actions underway to complete Additionally, we have ongoing work on challenges FA may face in recruiting, hiring, and training new traffic new air traffic controllers and how, if at all, FAA has assessed the effectiveness of its processes for doing so.
▶ 0:38:38In response to the act, we also have ongoing work related to airport service workers, the regional airline pilot workforce, the FAA national simulator program, and high school aviation training. In closing, there are currently 50 open jail recommendations to FAA from reports that we have issued since 2020.
▶ 0:39:00Implementing these open recommendations will help position FAA to fulfill its commitment to ensuring that the United States has the safest, most efficient airspace system in the world. We look forward to working with the committee to ensure implementation of the important provisions in the act and to provide support through the work we have underway in response to the act. This concludes my statement. I'll be happy to answer any questions.
▶ 0:39:28That concludes the testimony from our witnesses and I'll now open it for questions. And Mr. Collins touched on this, but my question is actually for Mr. Macintosh. Um, but one of the key organizational reforms that that we put in the FA reauthorization was the termination of the office of uh of NextGen.
▶ 0:39:49um which I think was a perfect example of just how messed up bureaucracy can be when it comes to uh some implementation um implementing law period. Um but the nextG program it's being plagued by delays and it failed to achieve its goal uh of increasing efficiency, increasing capacity and uh and flexibility on our national uh airspace.
▶ 0:40:14So my question is um there are obviously several provisions um that the FAA um is supposed to achieve that the office of nextgen uh never did achieve um in terms of modernization. So what specific steps is FAA uh taking to learn from those shortcomings from the office of nextgen and and ensure an effective implementation of u critical airspace uh modernization efforts. Thank you for the question sir.
▶ 0:40:44For the air traffic organization what we're ensuring is what we are responsible for as far as the implementation of a lot of the nextg um items are being completed. Some of those nextgen items being datacom which is now um fully uh is in all of our our continental uh inroot centers and are close to being IOC meaning operational. We're expecting those to be operational this year.
▶ 0:41:09We are we are seeing the roll out of um our terminal flight data management systems um throughout the s uh throughout the program as well as a number of our PBN procedures. Uh we're working very closely with our stakeholders to make sure um that they equip correctly so we can take advantage of a lot of these nextgen technologies. Another important piece uh in my opinion um sir is standing up the office which is the airspace modernization office.
▶ 0:41:36And I do know that uh my senior leadership is taking that and I'm expecting for that that office to be stood up relatively quickly. I know that we're within timelines of getting that done and when that is get getting done I look forward to partnering with the new and ensuring that those nextgen technologies are fully executed. Okay. Um next question for um Miss Baker.
▶ 0:41:59Um I mentioned I touched on the GA title which again I'm very very um very proud of that but my question is um can you highlight some of the key uh provisions that the FA FAA is already have implemented and going through that process and their importance to general aviation? Absolutely. And my son is actually an aspiring pirate pilot. So we're getting ready to go through the the GA segment as well. So he starts school in the in the fall. We're very excited.
▶ 0:42:28Uh some of the things that we immediat immediately implemented were around expansion of basic med uh which is a medical certification risk appropriate medical certification for low-risk general aviation operations. Uh also enabling basic med for those doing checks in those types of operations as well.
▶ 0:42:46Uh we have instituted our medical bill of rights which um informs aspiring pilots and pilots applying for medical uh airmen medical on their rights for interaction with um aviation medical examiners. Uh we removed the requirement to have an expiration date on your flight instructor certificate because that appeared to be unnecessary bureaucracy. Uh we recently published guidance on all makes and models for exper those operating experimental aircraft.
▶ 0:43:15uh we have gotten the registration down for an aircraft registration down to 10 days. So you get your aircraft registration quickly as well as we are working to uh enable uh use of an electronic registration in that period of time that you may not be actually holding the physical registration. Um additionally we're making changes around designated pilot examiners.
▶ 0:43:36We've set up our national office for designated pilot examiners and we have already implemented a way for individuals getting uh checks from DPES to provide FAA input on the performance through the using the FAA hotline. Uh we are looking to improve the electronic interaction with DPE. So we're working to implement those provisions where you can see online uh a DPE schedule to make that more efficient and similar to how we we run the rest of our life. That's fantastic.
▶ 0:44:06Actually, um, all of these things are important to me, every single one of them and and more. So, I look forward to uh everything being implemented uh that was in the uh that was in the GA title. So, Rick, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um uh Mr. Baker, I want to start with uh if you could provide a brief update on the FA's oversight of the Boeing action plan, the safety and quality plan. uh where do you where does FA assess Boeing is uh in that process? Uh thank you for the question.
▶ 0:44:36So the FAA increased its oversight of Boeing after the door plug accident of January 2024. We have continued that enhanced oversight. We are still in the factory day by day. We we are working closely with the actual mechanics in the factory as as Boeing executes its plan. Uh they are making progress against their safety and quality plan. I've been in the factory twice over the past year and I've seen changes that they've made uh to employee training. I've seen changes how they're implementing their SMS.
▶ 0:45:03So, they are proceeding with the execution of their safety and quality plan and we continue to be there daily as they continue to execute. And you anticipate um FA being in the plant for quite some time still. I I think that because the plan includes not just observations from our special audit and their own special audit, but there's also cultural pieces that came out of the uh section 103 expert panel review. I anticipate safety culture activities will continue for some time. Thanks. Um uh Mr.
▶ 0:45:33um Macintosh, it's my understanding the FA is continuing its review of airport hotspots after the tragic DCA midair collision. What are the latest findings of this review? in regards to airport the this would be the airplane and helicopter interaction at other airports the mixed there's a mixed traffic study I believe is what you're referring to sir true so that was uh a direct um action that we took from DCA is what can what lessons learned can we take and apply
▶ 0:46:03them to other airports that have similar traffic patterns between mixed uh mixed traffic meaning helicopters and fixedwing aircraft and we've identified 10 facilities that had charted helicopter routes near airports and we have been reviewing those those cities to make sure that those charted helicopter routes um have lateral confines and vertical confines to ensure that aircraft are uh safely separated between uh that mixed environment and we are seeing corrective action plans take place already sir we have identified uh Las
▶ 0:46:33Vegas as having um some charted helicopter routes that were fairly close to uh Las Vegas International Airport. uh we took corrective actions and we have established lateral confines and vertical confines to ensure that those helicopter routes are safe from arriving and departing aircraft out of Las Vegas as well as working with our labor partners to ensure that that our training is adequate for a lot of these for when we see these mixed traffic patterns.
▶ 0:46:57Mainly the exchange of traffic advisories, making sure that helicopters knew exactly what that the uh the the aircraft pattern altitudes were, making sure they were clear of traffic. These corrective action plans are part of our SMS process, part of our QAQC process, quality assurance, quality control. And if we see any safety drift there from our data points, we want to make sure that we mitigate it proactively versus reactionary. So, we are learning from that event and we are applying those lessons learned to these 10 other airports that I'm speaking to. Yeah. Thanks. U Mr.
▶ 0:47:26Collins, do you have an did go do any assessment or have you been asked to yet do an assessment uh about the um loss of federal employees at the FA as it relates to activities related to certification of of uh airplanes of airplane components? One of the one of the complaints we heard and tried to incorporate into the 24 bill was to um ensure the FA had the people to complete certification of parts and components.
▶ 0:47:56Um and so I'm wondering if you've done any assessment or have been asked to do any assessment about the relationship between the uh loss of employees and certification efforts. today. We have not received a request to do that work, but we'd be happy to chat with your staff about that. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Um, uh, see, I had a set of questions here. Um, Mr. Mr.
▶ 0:48:26Hibbec, um, one of the things we've been tracking, is this HBEC? Is that HC? uh we've been tracking is uh grants that have been um awarded uh signed and obligated grants have been awarded not signed and frozen and so on with regards to um either AIP grants or ATP grants um uh air airport terminal program grants I guess called um forget the name that came out of the IJA
▶ 0:48:56um have you have you have any direction do you have any uh Uh, can you give us any guidance about any grants that are being frozen? You're not yet getting guidance about releasing those releasing monies at all? Uh, thank you for the question, Congressman, and no, we are uh moving forward with issuing all types of grants. Uh, let me handle the airport improvement program first. Yeah. Uh, we thank uh we thank Congress for the $4 billion, which is a significant increase in the AFP.
▶ 0:49:23Uh, that took a little time to get the aortionment out. We cannot start moving those grants until we have an aortionment. Uh we should start seeing uh those grants going out to airports shortly. Um we recently announced $790 million of IIGJA funding or infrastructure investment job acts funding uh that's moving out and on the airport terminal program grants. Um as airports are ready to move forward. Uh we like to have all their documents in including bids as they're ready to move forward.
▶ 0:49:53We're doing uh one last review of those and moving those forward as well. We've had uh about 40 of those moving forward right now. About 40. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The gentleman yields and I'll recognize Mr. Webster. Five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. U Mr. Hibbeck. Uh what actions does the FAA plan to take in the next six months to accelerate airport development?
▶ 0:50:23I'm sorry I didn't catch the last part of that. Uh, okay. What what plans does the FAA have to accelerate development um for airport development? Okay. Um, so I I think that that question probably gets at the heart of u the prerequisite requirements that go into development, specifically um environmental reviews.
▶ 0:50:48Um and we have taken several actions or are taking several actions to try and accelerate environmental reviews. Uh we have proposed new categorical exclusions to the council on environmental quality. Uh we are also reviewing uh other agencies and uh categorical exclusions um to to determine if there are if there are other categorical exclusions from other agencies that we can apply uh and probably should have started with.
▶ 0:51:15We've imp we've provided guidance to the field um to our field offices regarding the presumed categorical exclusions for environmental review that was in the reauthorization bill and we presume a categorical exclusion if there's limited federal funding or under $6 million. Okay. Okay.
▶ 0:51:32Well, that kind of answers my next question which which would uh um are you going to evaluate improvements to the to NEPA um for the process being used for on on uh airport development? Yes, absolutely. Um our sorry getting some feedback.
▶ 0:51:53Um our uh office on energy and environment um is right now re reviewing and updating our implementing our NEPA implementing policies and procedures uh order 1050. Uh as part of that review, they will be looking at further streamlining our environmental processes consistent with the Council on Environmental Quality memo uh February of 2025. Macintosh.
▶ 0:52:24Um, I appreciate Secretary Duff Duffy's commitment to cleaning up uh the backlog of more than 3,200 projects that were left over from the administration uh by reversing regulatory requirements that delayed critical uh infrastructure investments.
▶ 0:52:47Tampa International Airport is working on um with the FAA for securing funds for a muchneeded air new air traffic control tower. However, conversations regarding this funding have stalled. Are you able to provide an update on this project when uh Tampa International will receive that funding for a air traffic control tower replacement? Sir, yes.
▶ 0:53:15So there are 350 FAO owned maintained towers, some as old as 60 years old. And we do have a process of prioritizing which air traffic controllers are replaced. It's all part of a formula. The formula takes account age of a facility. um tower line of sight, meaning what's the ability of an air traffic controller to to look out the windows, ensure that they can see all of the surface environment to include the runways, the taxiways around some of uh the gates, things along that nature.
▶ 0:53:45As well as what we call the facility uh the actual facility um condition, how old is it? Um is it in dilapitated um states, things along that line, as well as the overall operations. We base that score to to develop a prioritized list and that prioritized list is is then acted upon. But it takes time. Um we currently have 11 facilities that are are pending replacement and we're averaging about one tower per year. That's how long it takes.
▶ 0:54:14I'm not uh what I'd like to do is is if it's all right, we can uh develop that list and then bring it to you and see exactly where your tower is on that list. Sir, that would be very good. Um because if we're in negotiations, it's got to be closer to the top than the bottom. 11 years from now, you do it, you know, you might negotiate some other way, some of somehow. So, I would say it's near the top.
▶ 0:54:43If there's 350 towers that need to be replaced, it it's got to we got to stick to the process and see where it is. can't tell you if it's near the top based on it being 10 or 11 years as we're only placing one per year. What I'd like to do is uh get that list and circle up with you and your staff and we can tell you exactly where it is on that list. Okay. Thank you very much. Yield The gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Norton for five minutes.
▶ 0:55:15Thank you, Chair Graves and Ranking Member Larson for holding this important hearing. the tragic collision near DCA earlier this year and several recent near misses at and near airports across the country demonstrate that swiftly implementing the safety and workforce provisions of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 must be a top priority.
▶ 0:55:47However, there are actions the FAA can take beyond these provisions to improve aviation safety, including prohibited non-essential helicopter flights in congested airspaces. Baker, why has the FAA not prohibited military helicopters from transporting officials in non-emergency situations near DCA?
▶ 0:56:18I'm actually going to defer that question to Mr. Macintosh. Thank you for the question, ma'am. that is part of the discussion uh right now is reviewing um exactly that and and seeing the necessity and um having conversations with DoD and talking about possible restrictions. Everything's on the table right now on in our review to make sure that we keep a safe environment for the vicinity to run DCA. Very important.
▶ 0:56:47Uh I was pleased um the acting FAA administrator uh announced at a Senate hearing in March that the FAA is now requiring ADSB transponders turned on for helicopter flights in the DCA class B airspace.
▶ 0:57:10But there has been no update to the website where ADSB uh out requirements are listed. Miss Miss Baker, uh can you confirm that all military and federal helicopters flying in DCA class airspace have these transponders turned on? Again, I'm going to ask Mr. Macintosh to answer that question.
▶ 0:57:41Thank you for for that. Um ma'am, so you are correct. At the last Senate hearing, acting administrator Roshelo did um require that ADSB be out uh be required for the military aircraft. What came into question was the amount of waiverss that were put in place to allow these these aircraft to operate. The day of that hearing, we did go and review all the authorization and all those waivers.
▶ 0:58:06And the only waivers that are now permissible um for an ADSB out um off waiver are for aircraft doing active law enforcement, active national security and VIP movement. Those are the only ones right now that are currently allowed. any authorization that we had before is heavily scrutinized to ensure that that mandate is realized. Thank you.
▶ 0:58:34U as co-chair of the quiet skies quiet skies caucus and the member who represents the District of Columbia which is plagued by airplane and helicopter noise. I'm pleased we were able to get provisions to combat aviation noise included in the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024.
▶ 0:59:00Under this rule, under this law, the FAA is required to do more to combat aviation noise and engage with the public on aviation noise. Mr. Hi. Hi, Brook.
▶ 0:59:16What is the status of the implementation of the aviation noise provisions in the 2024 reauthorization law, especially the status of the aircraft noise advisory committee? Uh, yes, thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
▶ 0:59:34Um actually the provision in authorization in the reauthorization act closely aligns with the robust community engagement program that is headed by our office of national engagement and regional administration. Uh we have a regional administrator in eastern region who is heavily engaged with the DCA um noise roundts here to address those issues.
▶ 0:59:57uh that I know that they are reporting information um twice a year right now on on the website regarding the noise complaints to um and I would have to beyond that I would have to connect you or someone for your staff with the um office of uh national engagement and regional administration. Thank you and I yield back. The general lady yields. I now recognize Mr. Croft for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um want to talk about everybody's favorite topic, human resources.
▶ 1:00:26Um, as you're aware, our air traffic control centers have dealt with ongoing staffing shortages and retention challenges over the last decade. Mr. Macintosh, you you know that very well. The FA re reauthorization act of 2024 helped u by attempting to m maximize the hiring of air traffic controllers. But I believe there's more that can be done to address that issue. Limited access to training programs and lack of early career exposure are significant barriers to building a sustainable air traffic controller workforce.
▶ 1:00:55What if aa policies and initiatives are either in place or could be created to expand training opportunities through universities, community colleges, technical schools, and even in high schools or vocational schools to address that issue. Thank you for the question, sir. And and um first I want to thank everyone for the reauthorization bill because it has allowed us to do maximum hiring controller shortages.
▶ 1:01:17And I have a feeling I'm going to be talking a lot about this today, but as a former controller and and as a manager in an inroot center and and in my current position, uh staffing is is really where it starts and ends as far as fixing a lot of our our our woes in the agency. Uh enough controllers to do the job is where it starts and that's where where we want to make sure that we keep the momentum that we have.
▶ 1:01:39uh under Secretary Duffy's leadership as well as the administrator, uh they've done a lot to incentivize the recruitment of controllers that you spoke to, uh we have supercharged hiring right now, which is shaving months off of the application process to get the best and the brightest into our FA Academy. We're also offering a 30% um increase in salary for those academy graduate or for those academy candidates to make the job more appealing.
▶ 1:02:03Uh we're also providing incentives to facilities that are hard to staff as well as incentives to keep controllers on board for longer. Meaning the ones that are eligible to retire, we're offering them an additional 20% to stay on as we onboard the maximum hiring and to control or to uh hire and train controllers. The CTI program, the collegiate training initiative that we have uh in place is something or another avenue that we are doing currently.
▶ 1:02:31Uh the CTI program is great because it it helps not just um help with our staffing shortages in our FAA facilities, but also at our federal contract towers. Our federal contract towers are now going to have that pipeline available to them. But just recently, um we did the enhanced collegiate training initiative.
▶ 1:02:49What that allows is for universities to uh that that qualify and the qualification is they can provide the same um academia that that the academy does over at the OK at Oklahoma City with the appropriate simulation training.
▶ 1:03:05those universities are are accredited by the FAA or basically say they pass the standards and they're validated that they meet the same standards that a student who passed the academy gets provided that those individuals that pass that enhanced CTI and they pass the air traffic skills assessment and of course get through the medical and the security requirements that are are required for all of our employees.
▶ 1:03:29instead of having to go to the academy, they go straight to an FA field facility, which is going to enhance the the pool. Right now, we have 30 uh we have five schools that have been accepted for the enhanced CTI, and we have 30 additional schools that are showing interest. We've just started this program and we're expecting to see our first graduation of of these candidates uh come out this spring and I believe there was 40.
▶ 1:03:57That doesn't sound like a lot, but as this starts to turn over and we get more applicants, we can start talking about another two or 300 applicants that'll be available for air traffic. And these are the things that we need to start leveraging to make sure we put the maximum amount of PE people into our field facilities so they become future air traffic controllers. Let me ask you this. You know, the military has a talent pipeline in in the servicemies and ROC. Um, what you're describing sounds an awful lot like it could be called, for lack of a better term, an air traffic controller corps.
▶ 1:04:27Uh, is that something that you you think has has legs? I mean, identifying those those young people as as far back as high school and putting them in that in that talent pipeline and getting them ready to serve. I I definitely believe that is an option that we can take a look at. I'll be honest with you, I wasn't even interested in or I didn't really know what an air traffic controller did in high school. Uh nor did I in college. I actually learned about air traffic going into the military. I was in the US Air Force. That's where I learned how to be an air traffic.
▶ 1:04:56That's historically that's where you go. That's correct. So, I I do think that if there's a way that we can uh get more uh advertisement on what a great job and what a rewarding job on air traffic controllers and get people interested, I absolutely think that would be an option for us. Yes, sir. Excellent. Excellent. I appreciate that. I'm going to yield. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Nadler for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 1:05:22Chairman, I think we can all agree that the situation at Newark Liberty International Airport is unacceptable. When radar screens go dark and controllers lose contact with planes, passenger safety is jeopardized and confidence in the FAA collapses. We also learned yesterday that a critical hotline between military and civilian controllers at Reagan National Airport had not been functioning for over three years, contributing to serious near misses. Mr.
▶ 1:05:48Macintosh, what immediate steps is the FAA taking to fix the technology and data transmission failures disrupting operations in the Newark airspace, and how and when will these plans be communicated to Thank you. Uh in regards to Newark specifically, uh we are aware of how problematic the recent disruptions at the Philadelphia Treycon have been and we've been actively working on stabilizing those operations.
▶ 1:06:15In fact, we have stabilized those operations and the issues are a result of intermittent system outages um that occurred with a telecom provider that uh was was uh providing data in link to the facility. Uh we've worked uh directly with that vendor and uh we had a team of engineers at Philadelphia uh the very same week that that occurred.
▶ 1:06:38Uh they identified and investigated what the outage was um and provided uh the necessary mitigation to ensure that we have that system stability. Secretary Duffy also visited the facility that that same week. I actually was there. I had the pleasure of touring the facility along with him. Um and from that meeting uh he took direct action.
▶ 1:06:58One of those actions is ensuring that we get a third line of redundancy from a telco provider to ensure that we have one more line of stability in case the first two go down as well as hardening the system with a dedicated stars line.
▶ 1:07:11Um and then of course it also speaks to the larger infrastructure issue the FA is having which is uh looking at what our current telco requirements are ensuring that we have better accessibility to fiber getting out of this current copper connection uh thing that we've had uh for the last 40 50 years and putting us on updated systems to make sure that our infrastructure is better suited to meet the NAS not just of today but of the future.
▶ 1:07:37In regards to DCA, the issue that we had with a uh DoD helicopter, we had a DoD helicopter come in for a landing and the aircraft for some reason aborted that landing. I'm not entirely sure what happened. As that aircraft departed, the Pentagon without the necessary approach clearance from DCA, a call via that hotline did not occur.
▶ 1:08:02Now, I know that we call that a hotline, but it's actually it's it's probably better suited to say it's a switch or um a button on um on a tablet that's in front of a controller where they just basically key up and it goes straight to DCA and they can hear them either in the ear or a loudspeaker to say got an aircraft on the go. That allows for immediate notification to the controllers at DCA to take pro to to give a goaround to um to the necessary aircraft.
▶ 1:08:30I want to say that the DCA controllers were fantastic in this event because they had situational awareness of what was going on and gave those immediate goarounds. But the issue really is is making sure that that hotline is fixed as well as ensuring that um the the helicopter pilot understands that they cannot enter class Bravo airspace without the necessary coordination and approval of ATC. that did not occur that night and we are working with the DoD right now to make sure that those problems are remedied.
▶ 1:09:00DoD is actually at FA headquarters I believe today to work through that and make sure that we have a better pathway forward to ensure safety around DCA. Thank you. Section Mr. Baker, uh section 363 of the FAA reauthorization requires substantial reforms to improve the safety of commercial air tours. Last month, we witnessed the latest preventable tragedy when a sightseeing helicopter crashed into the Hudson River, killing six people.
▶ 1:09:28In response, I introduced the bipartisan improving helicopter safety act to ban non-essential helicopter flights within a 20 mile radius of the Statue of Liberty. This is legislation I've been introducing for many years. While the Reauthorization Act provides a multi-year window for formal rulemaking, the public cannot wait years for relief from the risks posed by these flights.
▶ 1:09:48In addition to grounding the company involved in the crash last month, what immediate steps is the FAA taking to protect public safety and mitigate the danger of non-essential air tour helicopters while the full implementation of section 303 proceeds? And how will the FAA ensure that these long overdue safety improvements are expedited to prevent further loss of Absolutely. Thanks for the question. Uh the accident in New York was tragic and the videos of the accidents are haunting.
▶ 1:10:16Uh as you mentioned the FAA immediately grounded the carrier the operator of those air tours uh and has done their own internal investigation on into the uh performance of the of the operator. Additionally the NTSB continues to investigate that particular accident. Uh what we are doing is is we have gone through our our evaluation of air tour operations. We've done uh additional surveillance where where needed. Additionally, air tour operators are required to implement safety management systems.
▶ 1:10:46And the advantage of safety management systems, it allows for an air carrier or an air tour operator in this case to immediately identify and mitigate risk far before the timeline of any rulemaking. What will it take for the FAA to ban non-essential flights around Manhattan in where where there's no air traffic control, only visual control? I think how many more I understand your concern. I ask a question.
▶ 1:11:14I understand your concern and it's something we can talk about internal to the agency. Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman yields. I'll now recognize myself for five minutes, Miss Baker. The entire group. Thank you for being here. Uh section 310. Initially, you talked a little bit about registration and you're catching up on the backlog of there. I want to talk a little bit about uh certification.
▶ 1:11:36Uh section 310 of the 2024 FAA reauthorization bill instructs the FAA to modernize the certification process which will take years and cost tens of millions of dollars. I've been briefed by several stakeholders that the current system is not performing very well and too many companies are delayed with their projects and much of the work is administrative.
▶ 1:11:58We must ensure that a modern streamlined type certification system will bring new aircraft to customers more quickly which will reduce the regulatory burden on manufacturers while bringing safety improvements to faster. This is section 310. I'm referencing 310 and our FAA reauthorization and I'd like you to provide me an update. But in this it said from the date of enactment. So, this should have been done in November 2024.
▶ 1:12:28You had 180 days to conduct a review and study to find an independent nonprofit organization to look at type certification processes. Was that done in November 2024? We were a little late getting that done, but we did award a contract in January of 2025. Okay. I would like to see it.
▶ 1:12:49Then it also states in section 310 that no later than 18 months that this con you have uh uh 18 months once the review and study has been done you report back to Congress. So that's due then in November of 2025. You think you'll be able to meet that? Our intent is always to meet the timelines within legislation. But you're a little late. I I would like to see this. I'm paying very close attention to this. This is this is ridiculous. We must get it done.
▶ 1:13:19We'll be happy to follow up. Supersonic aviation. January 2021, the FAA issued a final rule which generally upholds a prohibit a prohibition you can't it's prohibiting civil uh civil supersonic flight over land in the United States. This took place back in its 1973 rule.
▶ 1:13:401973, which restricts civil aircraft from operating at speeds above Mach 1 over land in the United States unless a special flight authorization is received. At the time, the regulation was about protecting the public from disruptive sonic booms.
▶ 1:13:56Decades later, an unintended consequence of this uniform ban has stifled American innovation in aviation and puts our country at a distinct disadvantage with our adversaries like China, which are significantly developing in this space. With that being said, it is evident that several US aerospace companies have proven that they can safely fly above Mach 1 and not produce audible sonic booms that are heard at ground level. This this is a example here. We've got boom supersonic.
▶ 1:14:26Have you ever heard of them? Yes. Amazing what they're doing. I mean, they've got this aircraft, Booms, Demonstrator Aircraft, the XB1. It broke the sound barrier three times back in January of this year. They did it. They've been testing this thing. Broke the sound barrier three times without generating a sonic boom that reached the ground, demonstrating that quiet supersonic travel is possible. I know some of the big commercial ainers, I think United has ordered some of these.
▶ 1:14:54they they can get this done, but we got a problem with the FAA and the rulemaking and it must change. So that is section 1110 that was in the FAA reauthorization and that it said section 1110 advancing global leadership on civil supersonic aircraft and all we were asking for in that FA initial progress report no later than one year after the date of enactment which is tomorrow. Where are we at with that report on supersonic?
▶ 1:15:24Cuz I haven't seen anything. Has anybody else seen anything on that? So the report uh we've we've done some work around uh super sonic. One is around the idea of quiet booms. Uh we're wrapping that up as well as entering into an agreement with NASA to collaborate on what would be required to get uh sonic and hypersonic aircraft into the system. Okay. It but we said a year and that's tomorrow. So can you tell me don't keep it secret. let us know because we're happy to follow up.
▶ 1:15:54Yeah, we need to follow up. We need to follow up. It's very, very important. I filed a bill. I filed a bill. I introduced it yesterday, the Supersonic Aviation Modernization Act of 2025 with my colleague on the other side, Shereice Davis, and she's here. Thank you for co-sponsoring. My bill would require the FAA administration to issue regulations permitting supersonic flight, provided that no sonic boom reaches the ground. We've got company that have demonstrated it. Boom supersonic.
▶ 1:16:22I firmly believe that if we implement a noise-based approach for supersonic, it will align with the original intent protecting the public from noise disturbance while enabling a framework for innovation. US manufacturers will be allowed to develop and test new supersonic aircraft, fostering a competitive market at a time when maintaining US leadership in next generation airspace technology. It's critical. So, will you help me? Can I have a commitment? technology. Very good. I yield. I now recognize Mr.
▶ 1:16:52Cohen for five minutes. Thank you, sir. Um, we passed a great bill last year. Everybody agreed on it. Great leadership, got it done. But implementation is what's important and right now the FAA is clearly not tracking what they were intended to do and what we expected to do as far as implementing the FAA bill. I am disappointed today that the FAA administrator is not here with us, Mr. Ro. Roshia Roshu. Uh, Secretary Duffy's not here either.
▶ 1:17:22U, I would hope they'd come at the earliest possible convenience, but they should be here today to tell us about how they're implementing this law, and it's an important law for America and for American safety. We've talked some about the helicopter plane crash. Mr. McInty, you gave some situations where you said they're still going to have uh access to that corridor and you said for VIPs. Is that correct for that corridor for VIPs?
▶ 1:17:49However, we still restrict mixed traffic and helicopters to be in that corridor at the same time. What do you mean mixed traffic with helic? So, we do not if they're in the corridor, if the helicopter's going through the corridor, then we hold aircraft out. If aircraft are going through the corridor, we hold the mil the uh helicopter out. We do not allow both those aircraft in the corridor at the same time.
▶ 1:18:13You say you've got an exception for The V the VIP is does not have to turn an ADSB out on for tracking purposes. And who are VIPs? VIPs for presidential movement.
▶ 1:18:30Don't you think they should be better protected than less protected and not be in the corridor that has been this corridor that had 70 some odd deaths or 60 some odd deaths occur because of the failure of the DoD to keep their training helicopters out of that corridor where there were takeoffs and landings. That's what caused the crash. The DoD had a training flight in that corridor when they could have done it after midnight.
▶ 1:18:55Shouldn't we immediately stop DoD from putting any flights in that corridor to protect lives of American citizens? Sir, I I can't comment on an NTSB investigation, but what I can say is that we keep that corridor safe by ensuring that we do not have mixed traffic in there and it is rare exceptions when they're allowed to be. Were they allowed to be on the date of the crash? We didn't have exceptions to the rule the day of the crash, sir.
▶ 1:19:24um that needs to be straightened out. I mean, lives are at stake and we've lost lives already. Um I would suggest you just get it done and eliminate the flights, but that's another issue. Um Newark airport, uh Mr. Macintosh, were there losses of communication, dead spots during the previous administration, or is this something that just happened in the last few weeks?
▶ 1:19:50In November, there was um a loss of communications and there was a momentary loss of uh surveillance. Yes, sir. Was that in New York? It was in the Philadelphia area secon that handles the approach control services into Newark airport. Why was that shifted from New York to Newark? I mean New York didn't have a problem and didn't New York used to be controlled by the New York folk. Actually, sir, that the night of the November incident, there were issues at N90 which is the Treycon and New York center. It was a major telecom issue.
▶ 1:20:22Okay. Um I would note and I'm not saying there's necessary correlation. All that troubles began after Air Force One landed at Bedmin to take President Trump to Bedminster after it landed in New York on that Friday evening on its way back from Rome. That's when the trouble started. I'm not saying there's a correlation, just noting it. Thank you. Um, Miss Baker, I was the author of the Evac Act along with S Senator Duckworth.
▶ 1:20:49It required the FAA to ensure passengers can evacuate an aircraft in 90 seconds. The FAA did a test that was a joke. It was a fictionalized fantasy census of people no older than 60 and I think younger than 16 and they were all able-bodied and they were probably Olympic sprinters. We need to have tests that are real with people over 60, which is a lot of the flyers and people under 16 and people with pets and people with disabilities.
▶ 1:21:19E evac conducted, the tests were supposed to be or your study was supposed to be conducted by May 16. Why have they been conducted? When will they be done? We are finishing up that report associated with that study. You're finishing up. It's due tomorrow. Is it going to be finished by is this just an allnighter? I'm sorry. Could you repeat that? This going to be an allnighter? You're going to take some mandra, whatever you take, and get it done. Well, we'll do all due diligence to complete it properly. We'll see what happens.
▶ 1:21:46But can you assure me that you're going to have real population censuses do those tests to see if a actual type of flight can evacuate in 90 seconds? We are definitely considering what was determined in the legislation. Passengers with disabilities, passengers with service animals, passengers with communication challenges. All of those are being considered in the study. Thank you very much. And I see my time is up and I uh yield. The gentleman yields and I'll now recognize Mr. Perry for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Uh Mr. Not yet, Mr.
▶ 1:22:16Chairman. Thank you. Uh ladies and gentlemen, thanks for being here today and answer some question for us, listening to our concerns. I've been sounding the alarm for years about the failures of the current system. It's taken collisions, literal collisions, close calls, and other incidents to bring that all to light.
▶ 1:22:33And I think we need to absolutely I've been here for a while and we've been talking about it but nothing really changes much and I'm concerned that the current current proposal on the table will just throw a bunch of money at it and as we usually do around here and failed to fix the underlying problem. Mr. Collins, your testimony highlights the critical concerns about ATC.
▶ 1:22:54In September of last year, we reported that 76% of the FAA's 138 air traffic control systems were unsustainable or potentially unsustainable. And we also know that the FAA been very slow to modernize these systems. On average taking a decade to modernize them, sometimes up to 12 years uh to do that.
▶ 1:23:16The same report of 2024 found that 105 unsustainable or potentially unsustainable systems identified by GAO 58 have critical operational impacts on the safety efficiency safety and efficiency of the national airspace. In uh the FAA technician identified system obsolescence or difficulty in finding replacement parts. Ladies and gentlemen, this this is antique stuff.
▶ 1:23:46That's why they can't get the replacement parts cuz it's not made anymore cuz it's that old. Now, during the last reauthor authorization, I offered an amendment to transfer some of the operational operation of ATC um to a separate non-forprofit corporate entity. And I know some people in the room here don't like that and I'm willing to explore some other operations. But first of all, FAA should not oversee itself.
▶ 1:24:11It's against IKEO and NTSB recommendations and no one's ever held accountable for these continual failures and a nonprofit system would get rid of all this oppressive red tape and funding uncertainty. Look, like I said, you might not like that idea, but it absolutely must be addressed and and we got to find a different model.
▶ 1:24:35We can't continue with the model that delivers equipment that's already that's already 10 years late. I mean, that just doesn't work. I'd like to submit uh Mr. Chairman, for the record, the May 9th, 2025 Wall Street Journal oped entitled Time is Running Out for the US Air Traffic Control System by Robert P requesting a change to the business model. Without objection. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Another recommendation by Mr.
▶ 1:25:05P is for the FAA to embrace remote digital towers. It's become the norm abroad and it maximizes the productivity of air air traffic controllers in the system. It was invented and first tested by the FAA in 2007.
▶ 1:25:19Unfortunately, the FAA has just ignored it while other countries have capitalized on our findings providing significant techn technological advances for controllers and but it also allows for facility cons uh consolidation and improvements which money. Mr. Macintosh, how many controllers does the FAA expect to retire in the next five years?
▶ 1:25:48And how's that going to help staffing shortfall among controllers? I I don't have the exact number of how many retirees we're we're forecasting this this year or for the next two years. I can definitely um get and circle back with you with that number. But I can tell you that right now we have three over 3,100 trainees in the pipeline. We're going to hire 2,000 candidates this year with I know I've heard that and that's great.
▶ 1:26:14But right now, we have problems across the I think that's what you're getting at enterprise. Well, what the other part of the the problem is or the solution to the problem is is providing exemption waiverss to allow experienced controllers to stay on the job. Secretary Duffy has included this in his plan. I offered an amendment in the last uh authorization to increase the re mandatory retirement age, but unfortunately it was rejected and I just like your thoughts on that.
▶ 1:26:43I mean these are period these are people like yourself that are experienced. They are here now. They are able to do the job now but we kick them out regardless of whether they want to do the job and can do the job and then complain about the shortages across the system. So what are your feelings about that at this moment? My feelings that right now the age 56 the age 56 requirement is congressionally mandated and if that's changed. I know it's congressionally mandated.
▶ 1:27:07And I'm asking for your feelings on that on it based on the shortage of controllers that we constantly complain about and this being a viable solution. I want your opinion, not Congress's opinion. My opinion would be we should be examining every option that we have available to us to see. Of course we should, sir. Do you not have an opinion that you're brought here as a subject matter expert? Pick a side, sir. My side is that um I would like to see us do everything that's possible.
▶ 1:27:37To your point, the amount of people that are going to turn 56 for the next one to two years, I would like to know what that number is to see what kind of a difference it would make. All right, Mr. Chairman, that's not much of an answer. And there's a lot of people that are beyond the age of 56 that are perfectly capable of doing jobs and I think we ought to consider that highly. With Mr. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield. Valid point, Mr. Perry. I now recognize Mr. Johnson for five minutes. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:28:05Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for your testimony today. Um, when we passed the FAA Reauthorization Act last year, the message was clear. The safety of the American people is non-negotiable. But here we are just a year later, and I'm deeply distur disturbed by what we've seen.
▶ 1:28:25In a matter of months, roughly 2,000 employees were pushed out of the FAA under co-president Musk's fork in the road campaign. A campaign driven by confusion, coercion, and fear. Through vague emails, misleading buyout offers, and a chilling fivebullet ultimatum, workers were left unsure whether silence meant resignation.
▶ 1:28:55All in the name of efficiency. That's like gutting your fire department during wildfire season and calling it innovation. Mr. Macintosh, how many air traffic controllers were driven out by uh co-president uh Musk and Doge? I I will speak to uh I'm just a a just a question. How many were driven out by uh co-president Musk and Doge?
▶ 1:29:23I'm going to answer the question on how many were driven out, sir. I don't know what the second part means. Well, how many were driven out? Zero. Zero. So, these employees all received the uh the buyout offer. Correct. The air traffic controllers are controllers. They received the buyout. Our air traffic controllers, isn't that correct? No, sir. It isn't. are are critically what we deemed as critical.
▶ 1:29:53Sir, are you are you here to testify today that the air traffic controllers did not receive the buyout offer from uh co-president Musk? What I'm going to say is that is that true or is it false? I would like question sir. Did they receive the buyout offer? 2152s which are air traffic controllers are exempt from Did they receive the buyout offer is my question.
▶ 1:30:19I am not aware if they received any you asked me if they were driven out and the answer I'm asking you did they receive the buyout offer? I am not aware if they received the buyout offer. Are you aware of it, Miss Baker? Did did air traffic controllers receive the buyout offer? I I am unaware if they received You're unaware of it? Nope. Okay. And what about the uh what about the uh five bullet ultimatum email? Did they receive that miss Mr. Macintosh?
▶ 1:30:49There is we we do a what did we do for the week? Five bullets. And yes, we all do that. You did receive that memo, right? I did receive that memo. The air traffic controllers also did. Correct. Yes, they did. And um that created some uh confusion uh some fear among uh an overworked staff of air traffic controllers.
▶ 1:31:17I would assume um you know we're talking about people who work 10 hours a day, six days a week for years at a time. Isn't that right, Mr. Macintosh? Depending on which facility. That is that is true.
▶ 1:31:33And uh you know if they did receive the uh the uh buyout offer uh that would have incentivized them uh who are already uh exhausted and suffering burnout. That would have encouraged more people to accept the uh offer and leave air traffic control. Correct. 2152s are exempt from that buyout, sir. Okay. Well, let me ask you this.
▶ 1:31:59How many people how many air traffic controllers have left the system since uh January 20th of uh 2025? I'm not aware of how many have retired. But so could it have been a hundred? It could have been one. It could have been a thousand. It could have been 5,000. No. Maybe 2500? 2,000? I don't believe so, sir. I track how many air traffic controllers are in.
▶ 1:32:26tell us how many have left their jobs since January 20th. I can't tell you that exact number, so I'm happy to come back to I I'll move on. Thank you. Uh know, Mr.
▶ 1:32:39Collins, uh Secretary Duffy recently outlined a major plan to modernize air traffic control systems and replace outdated FAA towers and Can you discuss the steps that FAA is taking to make sure that these upgrades don't cause more disruptions? So, we currently don't have any ongoing work related to uh the new plan.
▶ 1:33:05We'd be happy to chat with your staff about uh any work that you might want us to do in that area. All right. Well, looks like there's going to be uh something rolled out uh by July of 2025. um uh July of 2026 according to testimony earlier uh to uh today. Uh I'm I'm I'm perplexed that you are not uh already uh getting ready for that.
▶ 1:33:34The gentleman's time is expired. I now recognize Mr. Babin for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. And thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Mr. Macintosh, sir. Section 630 of the FAA Reauthorization Act authorized annual appropriations of 10 million uh dollars to modernize air traffic control systems to better integrate space launch and re-entry operations.
▶ 1:34:01I continue to hear that these programs are being deprioritized and delayed by the FAA despite their many benefits to airspace management. Can you tell me what the status is of FAA programs to enable realtime hazard area generation and dynamic airspace management? Yes, sir. I I would love to and thank you for the question. Commercial space has made significant progress in the United States um over the last few years.
▶ 1:34:29We're seeing much more commercial space launches um this year than we've seen four or five years ago. Matter of fact, it's not uncommon for us to see two, three, four a week. Absolutely. With with the advancements that have made and to the question that you've asked, the FAA has made a lot of progress in respect to the tools that facilitate that increased cadence of the space launches.
▶ 1:34:51Uh and what we aim to do is keep the flying public safe while also disrupting while not disrupting the passenger flights that have to be a part of thati of the national airspace system. We have deployed successfully what we call the space data integrator SDI. uh that makes for um a better tool to share telemetry data. When we have a commercial space launch, it's very important obviously to see where the space launch is and make sure we keep nonparticipating aircraft.
▶ 1:35:16Real-time telemetry is important because the better the information, the more accurate we are making sure that we keep flights clear. We also have something that we just developed called a range risk analysis tool. Uh that's been improved and it determines calculations on how large a debris response area is. So in case of an anomaly, we know exactly how long to clear the air airspace, how wide um and for how long. And that's very important because as soon as the the debris may come down, we can start resuming those operations.
▶ 1:35:44Uh these improved processes along with those enhanced tools will definitely lessen the negative impact of space launches and also the impacts to to commercial flight operations. And we are on track on meeting that December 2026 deadline. Sir, I'm very glad to hear that. Yes, sir. Uh, I'd like to follow up and give Mrs. Baker an opportunity to provide her perspectives uh on this same question. Did Did you hear the f the the question, Miss Baker? Would you mind repeating it, please? Sure. No, no, ma'am.
▶ 1:36:15Um, can you tell me what the status is of FAA programs to enable realtime hazard area generation and dynamic airspace management? I we rely heavily on air traffic and our colleagues in A to implement those pro So I have nothing to add to what Mr. Macintosh shared. Okay. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:36:37Collins, section 1003 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 directed GAO uh to conduct an assessment of how FAA allocates its RDT&E funding. Uh and in 2018, Congress mandated that at least 70% of RDT&E funds must be directed towards safety related initiatives. What is the status of this report?
▶ 1:37:01That report should be coming out in the next month or so and will be made publicly Do you have any preliminary results that you can share with the committee about that? We've provided preliminary results to the authorizing committee staff uh but aren't ready to make them public at this time. okay. Uh, would your office commit to adhering to any funding level that you come up with with us? We'd be happy. We have a funding level.
▶ 1:37:32We'd be happy to work with your staff on uh any additional issues that you have related to that topic. Okay. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I think that's uh I'll yield back. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Brownley for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Miss Baker, my question is to you.
▶ 1:37:52The 2024 reauthorization finally provided badly needed oversight of aircraft maintenance performed at foreign maintenance facilities, including reporting on defects in work performed at these facilities when aircraft are returned to be flown uh in this country by US air carriers. The reauthorization required FAA actions. Can you provide an update on where FAA is with regard to implementing uh these requirements?
▶ 1:38:22I'd love to. Thank you. Uh so we did finish up the rule that required drug and alcohol testing for employees of foreign repair stations. So that's complete and in the process of being implemented. Uh the additional requirements are to uh require employees of foreign repair stations to meet the equivalent of part 65 which are the FAA uh certification requirements for for mechanics uh particularly those who return aircraft to service or those who supervise others who are doing the work.
▶ 1:38:51Uh we're looking into that on how we can can implement those processes. Uh, additionally, we have the the requirement to not accept future foreign repair stations from countries that don't meet AKO standards. So, we're looking to implement that as well. And finally, we are uh working around the increased inspections and and announced unannounced inspections, what we would do there. Uh, it's important to note we do uh ongoing surveillance of foreign repair stations.
▶ 1:39:17We don't want repair stations, whether foreign or domestic, to introduce additional risk into the system. So, they are already privy to a routine in surveillance program and as risks present, we'll be sure to to go in and take a closer look. Um, you also asked specifically about the air carrier reporting. We're building the data collection tools so air carriers can report that information to us and we can conduct analysis on what they submit that feeds back into the risk model. Do you have a timeline when all of this will be complete? I don't, but that's something we could get back with you on. Okay, great.
▶ 1:39:46So my a follow-up question then is, you know, once FAA has fully implemented uh these requirements, uh if FAA notices that an airline or multiple airlines for that matter making use of the same facility reporting substantial failures affecting the safe operation of aircraft returning to service. What steps would FAA take to remedy that problem?
▶ 1:40:10And will FAA commit to using this new data to aggressively act where these issues are found? So absolutely we use data to manage risk. That's what safety management is for. If we saw trends that needed attention, we would definitely do attention there and exercise our compliance and enforcement program. We want participants in the system to comply. We want them to not introduce risk and our goal is to make sure that isn't happening. Thank you. Um Mr. Hibbec.
▶ 1:40:37Um the inflation reduction act uh included resources for projects relating to the production, transportation, blending or storage of sustainable aviation fuel. Uh what progress is FAA making on helping to ensure that airports are able to deliver sustainable aviation fuel to meet the demands that air carriers have for this fuel? Uh yes.
▶ 1:41:00Um, so I believe there have been several I don't have the specific numbers, but I believe there have been several grants issued uh that include sustainable aviation fuel uh storage with them, but I can circle back to you with your staff or you and and confirm that. So on these grants, do you have any idea how much uh FAA has allocated and what progress um has taken place? Um and uh can we expect full utilization of the remaining funds?
▶ 1:41:28Uh, I don't have that information with me. Uh, I can circle back and provide you with that information. Okay. Um, uh, Miss Baker or Mr. Macintosh. Um, as FAA considers improvements to air traffic control systems, is FAA also looking at software that aircraft need to have on board uh such as modern technology that alerts pilots in the cockpit uh to issues like lining up to land or take off from the wrong runway.
▶ 1:42:00So yes, we are uh we did task our investigative technologies arc to look at in cockpit technologies around runways. Uh they did provide us a recommendations uh late last year, late last summer I believe and we are looking to see what it would take to implement that.
▶ 1:42:16It seems to me like this is um lowhanging fruit in some sense relative to um safety air skies and um I I've had many people come into my office to talk about the technologies that they have and it's out there. It's it's ready. It's a matter of um FAA requiring uh the airlines to um begin to start implementing this in in in their in their plane. So uh thank you.
▶ 1:42:44With that, I will time is up, but I'll yield back. Mr. Chairman, the gentle lady yields. I now recognize Mr. Lamal for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Ready, Mr. Hybec. Good morning. Morning. All right. Um, I've I've been a member of this US House for 12 years, 132 days, and this morning. So, um, this issue I'm going to talk to you about has been an issue for 12 years, 132 days, and this morning at least.
▶ 1:43:12that is putting an FAA mandated fence around the Tuli Lake Municipal Airport which lies in the town of Mule Newell right not not far from the area called Tulie Lake right on the California Oregon border. So the uh airport is right here the perimeter of that. One of the uh contentions is that there's an issue with the uh national park monument nearby.
▶ 1:43:40So the 37 acres that are approximate but not even adjacent to the airport are highlighted in this magenta color here. All right. So that's uh 37 acres that is not even adjacent to the airport. So FAA has been mandating all this time that there should be a fence for safety around there to keep people from wandering in or deer or elk maybe livestock, what have you, which is a good idea.
▶ 1:44:07Um, but there's been just one holdup after another to getting this job done. So, Mr. Hibbec, I want just want to ask you straight up because it's been really aggravating to me and I've been holding my tongue for a long time allowing some sort of process as it is to work.
▶ 1:44:24Is this an acceptable timeline for something FAA is mandating of the locals there for a very important facility for agriculture and the the dusting you know the crop dusting aspects of that as well as other municipal airport needs. Uh yes thank you uh for your question congressman uh to answer directly no it is not acceptable.
▶ 1:44:45Um, in my experience with environmental reviews and section 106, uh, consultation processes, um, it's been my experience that sometimes we wait far too long before elevating issues to be resolved when there's disagreement amongst the parties. And I think some of that comes into play here. Uh, but I what does elevating issues mean?
▶ 1:45:06uh elevating issues means that if you if you can't come to an agreement with a consulting party in the process or with another agency in the environmental review that you would elevate it up to another higher level and and I say that sir because I am acutely aware of this issue. I am tracking it and as of this morning I understand that we have an agreement with uh on the MOA with the county.
▶ 1:45:31Uh I also understand that the vi there's um a agreement on the visitation plan and that all the language has been worked out there. Uh and now we have the you stand behind that because if I ask Mo County about this is is the agreement in place they'll say yes we've worked with them and it is in place. Will I will I get that answer from MDOT County? The agreement is not yet in place.
▶ 1:45:51The agreement has now um once we have the second piece of it, the uh monitoring plan to monitor for when they're um to monitor um they will that those pieces will need to go back to you mean monitoring while the fence is being installed looking for stuff in the No, I think it's monitoring of the visitors coming on to the airport. Sir, so the MOA contains two appendices.
▶ 1:46:16uh that second appendicies for the monitoring plan uh needs to um my understanding is the county will have uh there uh some requested edits back to us by Friday. After that I expect next week the entire MOA with the appendices will move to the uh state historic preservation office uh for review. I can I can point to the much of the delay came from uh these so-called consensus building meetings run by a group called the UD Doll Foundation.
▶ 1:46:45They were seeking funding a couple years ago in one of my other committees that uh they forced Modoc County to go through at tremendous cost to the taxpayer all these meetings and meetings to build some kind of consensus. The cons consensus never happened. Lawsuits were still filed by a group that thinks that they need to take the airport out and turn it back into the internment camp that it was during the war.
▶ 1:47:06So, the interesting thing is that the 37 acres it's set aside as a park right here has had nothing done to it as a park. It's got a couple ruins on it and the whole rest of the field area has nothing in it. There used to be those internment camp huts there after the war. Many of those were purchased by locals and the locals used them as homes.
▶ 1:47:30So, we're talking about an issue that is really a manufactured one by outsiders agitating from getting a blankety blank fence built for 12 plus years. I mean, isn't that kind of embarrassing after a point, sir? I do understand your frustration, Congress. No, but is it embarrassing to you all? Uh, I it certainly I think we could do better and that's what I was referring to when I said about uh elevating this issue. So it would have been uh in my view better to elevate it sooner to get this resolved.
▶ 1:48:00Okay. So since we're elevated now, what kind of timeline are we looking at to work out the monitoring, the access? You know, people, you know, I I don't know what there is to visit out there. It's a runway and an open field with a broken down fence from the past. There's nothing to see there.
▶ 1:48:17But that all said, you know, and what, you know, I would love to is if they did want to turn this park into something that could be visited and re refurbish it into something that would be a replica of a of a, you know, a sorryar past that was there, I'd be all for that on the 37 acres. They nobody has moved forward to do that. National parks hasn't the monument people haven't and the people interested in that haven't. Let's look at the next slide. Thank you. Okay, so we have here the gentleman's time.
▶ 1:48:46This is the perimeter fence that needs to be done and so let's get it done please. Okay, you have my commitment to see this at all. Thank you. You have my commitment. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Kabah, you're recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to all the witnesses. You guys have a tough job and very sensitive and important job and that's why you're being grilled today. So, uh, really appreciate your work.
▶ 1:49:12My understanding is that the air traffic controllers were spared from DOA's indiscriminate purge of FAA employees. However, in meetings with my constituents, they have informed me that other key safety roles within the FAA's air traffic organization ATO were terminated, which has negatively impacted their job. Mr. Macintosh, can you discuss the logic and impact of the mass firings in the FAA by Doge?
▶ 1:49:44I I'm sorry, Congressman. I'm trying to understand your question. Um, can you repeat it one? Aside from air traffic controllers, there were many others in the FAA that were terminated by Doge uh in various positions. What was the impact and the logic that you are aware of those firings? Honestly, uh, Congressman, I'm not aware of employees fired by Doge in the air. You got to be kidding me. No, sir.
▶ 1:50:14I I'm I'm appalled that you would respond in such a way when there is evidence and record that so many were let go. Not controllers, but so many supportive staff. I I understand, sir. I'm I'm not trying to be um standoffish with you. I I'm not aware of anyone terminated or fired by Doge.
▶ 1:50:39Um well, I'd like you to go back and look at that and if you find that there is contrary information to that knowledge you have that you get back to me. Yes, sir. Of course, Mr. Hibbeck, an issue I hear consistently from my constituents deals with airport and spacecraft noise pollution. As members of this committee, we work towards solutions. Can you provide an update on the implementation of section 786, which requires the FAA to update its noise standards?
▶ 1:51:10Uh yes. Uh so that that section requires us to update uh our part 150 uh regulations uh regarding compatibility. We um are up we are in the process of updating them for changes in other regulations and laws that are referenced in there. uh a piece of what will be required is uh results from the ongoing noise study uh that we'll need to uh finalize our update.
▶ 1:51:38Uh so I don't think we're going to make the timeline to update that because um that this is an ongoing study. It's been going on for some time with significant uh input through the comment period. I think we did two uh notices and comment and received over 8,000 comments to look at uh regarding our What is the new timeline? Um I don't have a specific one when that'll wrap up. Any general part timeline as part of the reauthorization.
▶ 1:52:03Another piece was also added to that and that's the airport noise advisory uh committee that we're required to establish that charter has been uh or is being finalized sorry and then we will solicit members for all of that. A culmination of all the information that comes in from there. So I don't know how long it's going to take for the committee to do its work either. So I don't have any I'd appreciate you getting back to me as to an estimated timeline. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Baker.
▶ 1:52:30Aviation products and operators compete in a global marketplace, but safety is a shared mutual goal of aviation authorities, manufacturers, operators, and the traveling public. The recent FAA reauthorization included provisions aimed at bolstering the FAA's engagement in the international marketplace with the goal of better utilizing safety resources and facilitating market access for the US aviation products.
▶ 1:52:58Can you provide an update as to where the agency is implementing these provisions? And can you also discuss how efforts to enhance FAA's international engagement and how to better leverage bilateral safety agreements will benefit safety and aviation growth. Uh thank you for the question. So we recognize that uh aviation is global and aviation safety is global. We do have arrangements as you described.
▶ 1:53:24We have international safety agreements um bilateral agreements that allow us to uh leverage each other's inspection inspection workforce for example um which makes all of us more efficient. It also generates more data that we can share. Uh we have uh validation agreements so we uh don't have to go through a full certification project of an aircraft that has been certified already by the the home authority.
▶ 1:53:51So that allows us to integrate products more quickly and allows our products to also be integrated more quickly overseas. Additionally, we're looking at how we can share data internationally. We have an effort we call the global safety intern uh GSIM. Uh never use an acronym you can't define.
▶ 1:54:09But the the concept of GSIM is that other foreign uh civil aviation authorities are also gathering data on aviation operations within their country whether it's their local operations or it's operations of of US operators coming into those countries and how can we link those data sources together so collectively we can get a fuller picture of what's happening worldwide. Thank you. I'm out of time but I'll submit my last question for Mr. Macintosh and Mr. Hibeck.
▶ 1:54:38If I could get an answer to those questions later that I would appreciate it. Mr. Chair, I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Owens for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The FAA re reauthorization act of 2024 is a strong bipartisan step forward. One that demonstrated that Congress can accomplish what accomp can accomplish work together to improve American aviation. A year later, many good parts of the FAA reauthorization are already being felt in many airports, large or small.
▶ 1:55:05We're seeing it in my great state of Utah as we continue to expand our Salt Lake City airport. It's among the nation's newest, most innovative and fast growing travel hubs. At the same time, our regional airports continue to be vital links for our rural communities uh to the economic opportunities essential services. That being said, it's essential with our growth that we're addressing workforce uh workforce strategies, employing safety uh systems, and modernizing our systems with new technology. Uh Mr. Collins.
▶ 1:55:34Uh section 414 of the Rio authorization directs the GAO to initiate a study to assess high school aviation maintenance tech uh technical u um programs and identify barriers for graduates to obtain this training and expertise needed to become FAA certified uh mechanics. Uh has the GAO initiated a study yet? That study was initiated last month. It has been.
▶ 1:56:03Yes, we just started work. Okay. Has it uh so it has when when do you expect it to be completed? Uh they're just now scoping out that uh engagement. So I can't give you an anticipated issuance date, but happy to get back to you as they progress in their work. Are there any any updates you can share right now with the committee regarding this? It's just in its initial stages. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Um Mr.
▶ 1:56:29Mintosh the section 415 of the reauthorization provides for improved access to air traffic control simulation trainings specifically the tower simulator studies while maintaining high training standards. Uh how far is this um how far along is FA in acquiring deploying and implementing these simulation uh systems at the at the at our towers now? Thank you for the question and and I'm happy to provide an update on this.
▶ 1:57:00Tower simulation systems are something that uh is vital for our success. Uh as we train more air traffic controllers, these tower simulations give us high fidelity problems to give us realistic scenarios and we thank everyone in the room for the funding to allow us to do this. Um with in regards to um where we are now, we have 56 tower simulators that have been um put into our FA facilities and most recently Newark.
▶ 1:57:29And uh the responses we've gotten from the controllers and the management team is that it's fantastic. It's high fidelity. Um it's a it's got a visual database where you look out on on uh the platform. It looks like the tower. It looks like the airport service environment. and we can practice all of our normal operations and irregular operations. That's where we want our controllers to be or in those simulators. Um, as a former controller, these things offered me so much time to learn irregular operations.
▶ 1:57:57A pilot would never practice a an engine flame out or a bird strike without having to be able to do it in a simulator. We want to do the same with our air traffic controllers. So, having the ability to do this, we're so excited about it. We currently have 56. We are on pace to make sure that we meet the authorization bill that every tower has access to a tower simulator. So, thank you for the question. We appreciate the funding. We are right where we need to be with this. Okay. Thank you so much. I'm going to yield right re my time to my friend, California, Miss Lamafa. Thank you, Mr. Owens.
▶ 1:58:28Greatly appreciate your graciousness there. Um, five minutes flies by. So, Mr. Liebeck Hybec, we're going to come back to uh the situation here now. adjacent or nearby the uh uh Two Lake Airport was the Two Lake National Monument. That 37 acres in Magenta, that L-shaped area, they managed to build a fence practically overnight. See that fence right here around that around that open empty field basically? That's what they managed to do in no time.
▶ 1:58:55yet uh the section 106 process that the airport is being put through over a long time with a lot of people at the table has taken the 12 years 132 days that I'm talking about basically to get there. So, um, and then on the next one, let's see. Let's see those, uh, these are some of the things that are left behind.
▶ 1:59:18These are some of the ruins that we're talking about that we're we're basing the whole situation on of uh, preservation. And so, 37 acres, I'm happy to have that turn into a park and they can do what they need to do there. The airport needs to get done. Can you assure me that section 106 process will be finished soon and the airport construction can fence construction can be completed timely for the safety of the airport again.
▶ 1:59:46Congressman, I share your frustration with this. Uh you have my commitment to to conclude this process as soon as possible. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Stanton for five minutes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the witnesses for being here today.
▶ 2:00:03The United States does remain the gold standard of aviation safety, but recent incidents like the tragic crash above the PTOAC earlier this year and a series of near misses nationwide understandably put people's teeth on edge. Just in the last few weeks, Newark Airport, one of the busiest airports in the nation, experienced a series of equipment outages. These disruptions delayed and canceled flights, and thank God, no one got hurt.
▶ 2:00:30Notably, these incidents happened on top of ongoing air traffic controller shortages. What's even more alarming is that these problems aren't limited to Newark. Airports across the country have struggled with these shortages for decades.
▶ 2:00:45And look, um, I'm not going to agree with this administration very often, but Secretary Duffy's new plan to strengthen our air traffic control infrastructure deserves our serious bipartisan consideration because on this most critical issue, we have to work together, and I'm confident will. Last year, this committee came together, Republicans and Democrats, to pass a strong FA reauthorization bill. I was proud to help get it across the finish line.
▶ 2:01:15And we gave the FAA clear marching orders, hire more air traffic controllers, modernize outdated technology, replace systems that are unsafe or unstable. That work is underway, but the F FAA needs to move faster to implement this bill. It was a big deal to get this major legislation across the finish line. In the meantime, we in Congress, we can do more. Just last week, I was proud to introduce the Air Traffic Control Workforce Development Act with my Republican colleague, Congressman Begage of Alaska.
▶ 2:01:44Our bipartisan bill directly tackles the controller shortage by training new recruits and keeping experienced controllers on the job, including providing more support for mental health challenges. We're ready to move. I want to get this bill passed and signed into law as soon as possible. Back home in Arizona, we would benefit from a swift implementation of the FAA.
▶ 2:02:09I advocated for a provision in last year's reauthorization to launch a pilot program converting high activity contract towers into FAA staff towers. That program is now law and Phoenix Mesa Gateway Airport is a perfect candidate to lead the way. We didn't leave this open-ended. We gave FAA a clear deadline, 18 months to get the pilot program off the ground. When administrator Whitaker testified here last September, he said the agency was on track to meet that timeline. Mr.
▶ 2:02:38Macintosh, is that still true? Where does implementation stand? And will the FAA hold listening sessions or public meetings so local communities can weigh First, I'd like to thank you for calling us the gold standard. That is something that we take seriously into heart every single day. every single controller and manager and technician wear that on their sleeve. And I really appreciate you saying that.
▶ 2:03:05To answer your question, uh, as far as reauthorization, yes, sir, the pilot program is, uh, not just well underway, it's it's marching, it's speeding down the road, and we have stood the pilot program up, and we have identified six qualifi qualifying towers that meet the requirements of operations and employments. uh one of them being Phoenix Mesa Gateway in Chandler, Arizona is the other one. We have two in Arizona, two in Hawaii, one in Florida, and one in Montana.
▶ 2:03:34And we we are where we need to be. I will also be honest with you, I do think we'll need future appropriations to actually move that, but we have the qualifying list, and I'd be happy to share that with you, sir. Thank you very much. And I look forward to working with you on the appropriate appropriations request. Uh let's talk about Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport, one of the busiest airports in the country. They've announced plans to build a new terminal to meet demand, but the FA is saying that it'll take 6 years just to get through the review process. Mr. Hibbec, 6 years is not acceptable.
▶ 2:04:02What can the FA do to shorten that timeline and move this critical project forward? Uh, thank you for your question. Uh, I'm not aware of anybody that should be saying it would take six years. Uh, NEPA regula or legislation uh sets the standard for environmental impact statements. So even if it were that, it would be more like two years on an environmental impact statement. So I'd like to look a little bit into that for you and circle back with your staff for you.
▶ 2:04:32Two years sounds a lot better than six years. Thank you. That that's what's in the law, sir. Thank you very much. I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Westerman for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Uh, I think we can all agree that the primary goal of the FAA is safety. And I want to talk about an issue that I've worked on for a couple of years which poses a safety threat to my constituents who are flying in and out of the mun of the Mina Municipal Airport.
▶ 2:05:02That's the airport that was made famous by the Tom Cruz movie American Made. Um, section 612 of the FAA reauthorization passed last Congress and directed the FAA to brief this committee on the radio communications coverage within the airspace surrounding the Mina airport.
▶ 2:05:21In it included information regarding radio communication coverage with the Memphis Air Traffic Control Center, the altitudes at which radio communication ceases, which was found to be 4,000 ft, and recommendations on how to increase radio coverage in the airspace. First off, I am grateful for the FAA in meeting their requirement and providing this information to the committee in my office.
▶ 2:05:44Uh but now we need to focus our or shift our focus on the implementation of a solution that ensures safety. Uh the FAA recommended two potential solutions to achieve radio coverage below 4,000 ft. The first is to quote directly connect to an FAA voice communication switch via a telecommunication service. as I understand that that's what they're doing now. The pilot gets on his cell phone and calls Memphis Center. Is that correct?
▶ 2:06:13And I I got to be honest with you, I I don't know exactly what the technical specifications are, but as soon as you said VCS and that's a voice switch, it is it is a current setup. So, but I to give you a better briefing, I'd actually like to circle back and make sure you're getting what you want because we're starting to get into that technical round where I want to make sure that you get the right information so we can provide the right mitigation to what you're looking for. Yeah. Now, the that's what the pilots do now. They they get on the cell phone and call the Memphis Tower.
▶ 2:06:39Um, so the other recommendation is to establish a radio communications facility and RCF at the Mina airport. And I'm not sure what that is, but I'll open it up to the panel. if you could tell me a little bit about how these facilities work, what a timeline is for establishing an RCF, if you believe it would solve the problems in Mina, and also would it be part of the air traffic control upgrades or come from existing resources?
▶ 2:07:07Um, you know, we've included some upgrades for air traffic control in the reconciliation bill. So, anything you can tell me on that? What what I can tell you is that so I don't have spectrum analysis to understand what the coverage requirements are for that mountainous terrain that you're speaking to, but at the heart of the matter um it does talk directly to the need for better infrastructure and that's what Secretary Duffy was speaking to earlier when he was in Philadelphia and also when he he talked about project.
▶ 2:07:34We need to make sure that we have the most advanced capabilities to ensure that controllers can talk to pilots and pilots can talk to controllers and that we can see um aircraft when we're supposed to see them. and we're exploring all sorts of technologies. I think the best thing we can do is have a conversation with my technical operations team and get you the direct answer, but the direct answer is more more improvements in our infrastructure to have the reliability and the performance-based navigation that we need.
▶ 2:08:02Anybody else like to add to that, Miss I do not. And maybe in your investigations you can figure out why the Mina airport didn't have radio coverage below 4,000 ft. It it very well could be to mountainous train. It could be to obstructions. I don't I don't have an answer to that question, but I think it's a good one for me to go find out for you, sir.
▶ 2:08:26Yeah, if you watch the the American Maiden movie, you'll raise even more questions as to why it might not have had radio signals. Fair enough. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Davids for five minutes. Thank you. Uh and also uh thank you to uh of course our chairman Graves and Ranking Member Larson for for holding this hearing today. Uh and I I do want to especially thank our witnesses for for being here.
▶ 2:08:54Thank you for your service um and uh for for the work that you're doing. Millions of passengers are able to fly in the United States every year thanks to uh some of the most advanced technologies that we have.
▶ 2:09:10Uh and also as we've heard earlier uh sometimes terrible tragedies happen like the midair collision of PAT 25 and flight 5342 which originated in Kansas not in my district but um uh we were all impacted. Um, so I would say that in the United States overall, we absolutely enjoy an exceedingly safe national airspace. Uh, as Mr. Stanton said, the gold standard.
▶ 2:09:40Um, and uh, we so many of us do it without a second thought. But we all know, especially in this committee, that uh, that safety isn't free. uh from fully implementing NextG and upgrading our uh air traffic control systems to training and retaining the folks like our aviation safety specialists, air traffic controllers. Uh I would say everyone within the FAA has a mission of safety.
▶ 2:10:06Um but we we do need to continue to invest uh time and resources to ensure that we're protecting the flying public. Uh so Mr. Collins, I'll come to you first. For years, the FAA funding requests for its facilities and equipment haven't haven't necessarily kept pace with um the air traffic control infrastructure needs.
▶ 2:10:27And I I have had to unfortunately demonstrate this chronic lack of investment in multiple hearings of this committee and have relayed the horror stories of safety specialists trading outdated parts between regions. And um I'd be can you just speak to why why is it important for the FAA to invest more um than just the mere sustainment for uh the ATC legacy systems that we're using? Yeah.
▶ 2:10:54Um aging legacy systems um are a continual problem. Uh about a third are unsustainable and uh many of those are critical to safety and efficiency. We also have it in uh increasingly complex and congested airspace which is expected to grow and you have due and expanding interest entrance as well as cyber challenges and this all uh makes it the all the more important that FAA continue to mitigate the various risks uh related
▶ 2:11:24to modernization. Uh Mr. Macintosh I don't know if you want to speak to that. Yes ma'am I would and thank you for the question. Over 90% of our budget goes to sustainment of our legacy systems while under 10% actually go to the future modernization. That's to to keep the NAS running for some older systems or aircraft that have not equipped correctly.
▶ 2:11:51We need to move forward when we talk about generational changes and keeping us as the gold standards and innovations in safety. We we need to make sure that we make those necessary improvements and investments and start talking about the legacy system of the of the old and talk about future systems and make that the modern system. We need to go there. Yeah, thank you. Um 10% is probably not going to get us there. Um so I I appreciate that.
▶ 2:12:20Um I want to switch to another area where I see the FAA potentially um uh uh looking to kind of catch up um in the pro promotion and coordination of uh new and emerging technologies like advanced air mobility. Uh the US has I I believe the US has a real opportunity to lead on the global stage in this sector. Um but in the name of safety uh first the uh FAA needs to set a path for that.
▶ 2:12:50Uh Miss Baker, I'd love to hear from you about um the advanced air the the work that you all are doing the advanced air mobility coordination and leadership act was passed into law uh to support integration of new AAM entrance by directing an inter agency working group to plan and coordinate our government efforts.
▶ 2:13:10And my understanding is that much of this intergo intergovernmental work has been completed and and could serve as a foundation for inter agency collaboration and progress while helping to preserve US leadership and innovation. Uh would could would you be able to share with the committee uh when that framework would be released uh so that so that we can continue to see those advancements here? So I'm much more familiar with the work we're doing within FAA.
▶ 2:13:37So I will come back with you on on the specifics on when that inter agency work will be done. I know we've participated in that because it really is a whole of government if you think of how aviation is currently structured. But we're within FAA we're very excited about advanced air mobility. We have uh established a way to get the vehicles certified so we can actually get vehicles safe vehicles in operation and they're going through the process of getting their type certificates. We have an operational framework that will create pilots uh who will be ready for those first aam.
▶ 2:14:07We continue to work with my colleagues across FAA on vertaports where these where these vehicles are going to take off and land whether it's a traditional airport or something different as well as working with our colleagues in air traffic to identify how to integrate them into the larger system. Thank you so much. I got so excited about a am I didn't even realize. Uh, I yield my I yield. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Mr. Barrett for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to our panelists.
▶ 2:14:35Thank you for being here, and I apologize if I'm asking you some questions that may have been covered by my colleagues while I had to step out for a few moments, but want to start by following up on a question. Norton asked. I think Mr. Macintosh, you were kind of responding to this. It was about some of the VIP transport out of DCA and the ADSB out requirement.
▶ 2:14:56You said currently protocol is that they can only turn that off for VIP transport, active law enforcement missions and national security uh missions. Is that basically am I understand that correctly? Those three as well as what we call operational continuity in case of a a a real world national. Yes. Okay. Um, I've flown VIP helicopter flights and um, thankfully we were not flying over as congested of an airspace as right here at DCA.
▶ 2:15:25Um, but I I just sense that there can be a mission creep that develops over time where a straight line corridor turns into coming to this stop and then that one and then it deviates from the original intent and next thing know, you know, circumstances and breakdowns occur and then you have a tragic real world collision event.
▶ 2:15:44One of the outcomes of that, and I saw some testimony in the Senate, where the Army testified that they had uh an a standard operating procedure where they would turn off ADSB during those simulated um you know, national security type missions, but they would turn them off for the entire flight.
▶ 2:16:02And I don't know if you have any insight for us as to whether or not the SOP has been changed so that when you are in an airspace where you want to be seen and everyone should benefit from knowledge of your whereabouts where you would turn that back on. Certainly not over a classified site that you're practicing, you know, movements to, but once you're back over, you know, Reagan National Airport, I think we all want to know where you are for the benefit of the entire national airspace. I'm curious if you have any update for us on that.
▶ 2:16:32I I don't disagree with your comments, but I I can't speak affinitive or affirmatively on exactly how that change has occurred. I do know when acting administrator Roshelo made the commitment, we updated all of our orders to reflect the changes. Now, as far as those few exceptions, I would have to go back and make sure that that I answered to your question, but I do understand the importance of ensuring that you don't have either mission creep or safety creep. have to stay on top of these things and make sure that that we don't compromise and we always remain vigilant. Okay.
▶ 2:17:02Is there a liazison between the FAA and the Department of Defense that works collaboratively in these efforts to try and sculpt these things in the best way possible. So, one of our service units in the air traffic organization is um is security and they they are a leaison with the department of defense as well as the white house to make sure that that there's um daily communication and um we continue to work uh collectively to ensure the safety of the NASA isn't compromised.
▶ 2:17:32There is a leazison on that do that. Yes, sir. Okay. And then I feel personally and and others may share a different opinion that we've had a um a willingness to maybe transport a lot of VIPs that could take alternative means of transportation that would clear out a lot of this you know hazardous situation and near miss. Um I mean the helicopter unit started operations recently and then had a a like a 200 foot near miss with the civilian airline again.
▶ 2:18:02um it causes a a whole lot of concern and consideration that if we're doing this if we're in implementing a level of risk and everything has a level of risk to it, but if we're doing that for convenience sake instead of necessity sake, we've got to have a better way of of uh determining that. So, thank you for the followup because I I do want to clarify when I say VIP movement, it is not for personnel transfer or for for at that at all. As far as if if we're speaking about fivestar generals or four-star generals, they are not VIP.
▶ 2:18:32Um and to your point, we are having those discussions on whether or not they should be in a helicopter at all, let alone have ADSB um turned off out. Yes. Exactly. So that is not part of the conversation. When I say VIP, I am talking about strictly about the president of the United States. Got and making sure the president of the United States has the security that that he should be afforded like the presidents before him. Thank you.
▶ 2:18:54Um lastly for uh the group um I know that there are a number of reports due um from the previous Congress in the reauthorization around the issue of ADSB and ADSB out and whether that's autonomous or drone vehicles drone aircraft or general aviation aircraft. I think that report is due tomorrow um like in 12 hours tomorrow.
▶ 2:19:19Um do we have any update as to when we should expect that and uh what the uh if you have any preliminary findings for us to share? We aspire to make all the deadlines. I don't have any preliminary filing findings. Okay. I believe we have some busy people at FAA. Okay. So not by tomorrow of course but do you have any expectation of when we can it it very well may be by tomorrow. Oh okay. Very good. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you Mr. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Garcia of Illinois.
▶ 2:19:48Thank you uh chairman, ranking member, and of course the witnesses. Last Congress, I led a group of colleagues in an effort to strengthen consumer rights and protect labor agreements in the final FAA bill. We successfully pushed to require airlines to automatically start a refund for canceled or significantly delayed flights instead of keeping the burden on customers.
▶ 2:20:13We also successfully fought to remove a provision that would have raised the pilot retirement age, undermining hard labor agreements. Of course, uh I'd be the first to admit that it wasn't a perfect bill. I was pushing to include, for example, my good jobs for good airports bill to increase the wages and benefits of airport service workers. And I would have liked to see more done to increase competition among airlines to benefit consumers.
▶ 2:20:42But the bill did make important strides toward talent pipelines that can ur address urgent workforce needs in the aviation industry. Recent incidents, including the tragic collision over DCA, remind us of just how urgent full implementation uh is, including workforce expansion and equipment updates.
▶ 2:21:06I was troubled, for example, to hear that Midway Airport, which is in my district in Chicago, uh, relies on an obsolete surface surveillance equipment, forcing them to look for replacement parts at other airports. As previous speakers have underscored, as we push, I do know one thing hasn't helped, and that's making uh that's is helped make our aviation system safer, and that's Trump's targeting of federal workers.
▶ 2:21:35Questioning the qualifications of people who direct our air traffic is despicable and Trump's purge of the federal workforce undermines the avian aviation safety system that we are trying to improve.
▶ 2:21:48Uh for Miss Baker, can you describe the role that aviation safety inspectors play in upholding the safety culture across the aviation industry and why having this workforce fully staffed is important for the FAA's safety mission? Absolutely. So, aviation safety inspectors provide critical oversight of the aviation system and how it's functioning. They also provide uh they they write new standards.
▶ 2:22:17They certify new operations, new uh they certify uh approve new manufacturers. So they're they're fundamental to the the core of the system. Uh to be noted that we we have identified them as safety critical individuals. They are continuing to be hired. We have preserved that safety safety ASI workforce. Thank you. Uh Miss Baker, my next question is for Mr. uh Collins.
▶ 2:22:44Uh, as I mentioned earlier, I was disappointed that the FAA bill did not include the Good Jobs for Good Airports Act. Airport workers, from ticketing agents to ramp workers, go the extra mile to make travel smoother. But they also receive poverty wages and inadequate benefits. This is unjust, unsafe, and it's got to change.
▶ 2:23:08And while the FAA didn't include my bill, it did acknowledge the problem that my bill seeks to correct by requiring the GAO study on the importance of said workforce to the aviation economy. So, Mr. Collins, can you tell us when the GAO will complete the airport service worker analysis?
▶ 2:23:31And in addition, can you share any discussions uh between Secretary Duffy and the GAO to convene a public working group to discuss said report? So our air airport service worker uh report will be uh formally issued in September.
▶ 2:23:52Um I'm not aware of any uh particular conversations between the secretary and go uh regarding uh the issue you mentioned but can get back to you on that. Uh yes, I'd appreciate it greatly. The uh public uh working group uh to discuss that report. Uh thank you uh Mr. Collins and again uh thanks to all of our witnesses. I yield back. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. for chat for five minutes or Burchett either one.
▶ 2:24:22Mr. Macintosh has the FAA began auditing legacy systems in use across the US airspace to determine the optional risk functionality and security and if not when do y'all plan to begin? I'm sorry, sir. Can you repeat that one more time? I want to make sure I totally understand your question.
▶ 2:24:43as the FAA began auditing legacy systems in use across US airspace to determine operational risk, functionality, and security. We we have uh looked at something that we do a risk assessment on all of our legacy uh legacy systems to talk about vulnerabilities um potential replacement parts and you know what's the likelihood of potential failure. So, we do look at that. There has been a risk assessment that's done. I'd be happy to share that with you, sir.
▶ 2:25:13I would like to have that if you did. Um, can you go over some of the new technology that's being implemented for air traffic control systems? Some of the newer technologies that I'm going to talk about our surface safety portfolio that that enhances our our safety on our runways. Uh, surface awareness initiative is a new technology that we're deploying at uh our towers. It uses the new ADSB technology and it gives controllers the ability to see um surface movement that they would not have seen before.
▶ 2:25:43Another thing that we've deployed sir is something we called a runway incursion device RIDs. What that does is it allow controllers to um use it as a memory aid. So, if we have a closed runway or a closed taxi way um due to construction or something along that line, or if we put an aircraft into a position that we call line up and wait, put an aircraft on an active runway because we're waiting for either a previous departure to come off or or another inbound AC to come across another runway, we'll activate this and it gives an oral and and um visual alarm
▶ 2:26:13to controller if it's been on a runway for a specific period of time. And the third thing that we've deployed recently is something called ARV, which is our approach runway verification. This is another oral and audible alarm that uh gives controllers if a aircraft is lined up to a wrong runway or actually lined up to a taxi way. If you put these three technologies on top of one another, it it forms three layers of safety.
▶ 2:26:40And the first level of safety and the last level of safety is a well staffed tower, by the way. So if you have a well staffed tower and you have these layers of technology that greatly enhances what we're doing in our tower environment. Sir, is would any of this qualify under um air traffic control simulation training? No, sir. That would be our tower simulation um our our tower simulators and we have actively deployed 56 of those so far.
▶ 2:27:07Those are highfidelity simulators where a controller will go and um they'll go in the simulator and it it does exactly what it says. is it simulates a tower environment. When they look out in a simulator, it looks exactly like it would appear uh looking out their own tower and we do um scenarios and basically that helps us certify our controllers, train our controllers and we've even seen remarkable improvements with this new TSS system. We're actually seeing improvements or certification times come down by 27%.
▶ 2:27:36And I'm not saying that we're sacrificing anything in that. What I'm saying is the training is so much better, the certification times are coming down. And you said that they um they're in 50. You've you've we've got 56 that have been deployed thus far. The last one that just came out was in Newark airport and we are on pace I believe to have 95 deployed by the end of the year. Reauthorization requires us to have them in place uh or actually accessible to every tower in the country and we are going to meet that deadline.
▶ 2:28:06Sir, how many more would you need to do that? How many more are going to be needed? I don't have the number, but I do know. That's all right. I do know we're going to meet the deadline. Not trying to trip you up. That's just out of my um I'm not sharp enough to try to trip anybody up here, so I I'll just I was asking that on face value. Maybe you can get that to me. Yes, sir. Um what's the funding mechanism for these simulators? We were we we were through reauthorization, we've received funding for that or appropriations.
▶ 2:28:33Was there enough funding in there for that or is that I mean you're at the federal government you're going to say oh yeah go out and print some more money Burchett and we'll say okay sure I believe we are funded uh to uh deploy all the tower simulators or actually to ensure that everyone has access to the tower simulators but I will um circle up with you to make sure that I'm giving you a fact let me give you one quick question about to run out of time um this is one of my favorites have you experienced any regulatory barriers when implementing ing those
▶ 2:29:03simulators. Have I seen any barriers from implementation? Yeah. Um regulatory bar bureaucrats bureaucrats getting in your way. No, sir. Not not to my knowledge. I've actually uh appreciated the support that we received. All right. Thank you. I'll yield back the my remainder two seconds, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, sir. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Strickland for five minutes. Thank you, Chairman Graves.
▶ 2:29:27I first want to thank the career civil servants aka bureaucrats from the FAA and GAO for their testimony today before this committee as well as their testimony yesterday before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. Before I get to my question, I want to call attention to the conspicuous absence of political appointees at the table before us.
▶ 2:29:52As members of this committee know, it is the norm for Senate confirmed administration officials to appear before the committee for oversight hearings just like this one. This is to ensure accountability to Congress and the communities that we represent. What message does it send when the administration refuses to have its top political appointees testify before this committee, especially given what's happening right now with air traffic and safety, but instead decides to shield itself behind career civil servants.
▶ 2:30:22It suggests that Secretary Duffy, acting administrator Rashelo, and other political appointees at DOT are unwilling or unready to answer to the American people on issues related to their safety. When Secretary Duffy wants to blame the previous administration or diversity, equity, and inclusion for failures that happened under his watch, he can find his way to a TV camera. But when it's time to ask Congress for money, he shows up to speak before appropriations.
▶ 2:30:53But when it's time to face the music before the committee that oversees the FAA, he's nowhere to be found, and neither is his administrator. I sincerely hope that moving forward, this administration will engage with this committee as past administrations have done instead of hiding and not showing up to take ownership of their responsibilities that come with this very important responsibility. Now, I want to focus on aviation safety.
▶ 2:31:20Our nation's aviation system has been the gold standard for decades, but a series of high-profile aircraft incidents this year and frankly over the past few years have shaken the public's trust. How has Secretary Duffy's FAA responded? By firing nearly 400 probationary employees. Additionally, around 700 FAA employees have taken the deferred resignation program offer with thousands more expected to accept another deferred resignation offer.
▶ 2:31:51And this is on top of the natural attrition happening to an already understaffed and underinvested The result of all this is a less responsive, less capable organization due to a loss of institutional knowledge and a culture of instability that affects morale and tests the trust of the flying public. Mr. B, Miss Baker, how have these reductions and fluctuations and uncertainty in workforce strength affected our overall safety at airports and for the flying public?
▶ 2:32:22What is the FBA doing to ensure that irregular workforce attrition does not impede the full implementation of and compliance with 2024 FAA law? Thank you for the question. Uh within aviation safety, we have certain portions of the workforce that have been exempt from any of the hiring actions and we are still hiring uh safety inspectors. We're hiring engineers.
▶ 2:32:47We hire, continue to hire and retain medical doctors, psychologists, legal instrument examiners, and those portions of the workforce are critical to the work of aviation safety, setting standards, certifying, and uh continue to continuous operational safety. So, we continue focused on our safety mission, uh just like we always have. So, um as someone who is very familiar with this organization, what do you think it does to morale when people are told, "Oh, you're fired. Oh, wait. We take that back. you're not.
▶ 2:33:17How does the uncertainty of your financial security and ability to work and do well affect morale at your agency? I can't speculate about entire morale. Uh what I do know is our workforce is committed to safety. I can talk about myself. I can I can tell you I remain focused on safety and I encourage our workforce to continue to do the same. Is it true that at Newark there are some employees who are taking mental health days because of the stress of the job? I'm unaware of that. All right.
▶ 2:33:47Well, thank you, Miss Baker. And I want to reiterate that every person at the FAA plays an important part in ensuring aviation safety. Even if if you don't have a job classified as safety critical, your work is important and it supports the work in the FAA safety mission. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Mr. Herd for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much. Um, Mr. Macintosh, I want to ask you about remote towers.
▶ 2:34:13Um I understand that this is technology that's been deployed successfully in other places around the world. Um the London City Airport is one example. I understand is SEC uh section 621 of the 2024 FAA reauthorization act uh directed the FAA to create a program to design and um figure out operational approvals for remote towers. Can you update us on the status of that? What does it look like? What is the timeline for that? It's important for districts like mine which are which are rural districts. Yes, sir.
▶ 2:34:42I'd be happy to uh we do have a vendor who is at uh in New Jersey at our tech center who currently has the uh remote tower um that on display and actually we're working with our team. Uh they are building this the business case and the safety case and we are in process of uh coming in behind them to actually validate that safety case and credential it. uh my understanding that it's progressing very very well that is within timelines and we're looking forward to having a product that will be available by airports that want to purchase it.
▶ 2:35:12What is when you say safety case what does that mean? What are the criteria that you use to evaluate the safety of a system like this? There are certain thresholds that um that a vendor must show as far as you know line of sight if you're going to use a camera to can it pick up uh an aircraft appropriately. Does it see around um all the terminal environments? Does it have any blind spots to it?
▶ 2:35:34Those are the kind of things through the testing process to make sure that uh that if we were going to use a controller um not actually in a tower but but remotely that they will see everything they would from a tower. So you got to build the safety case and if if there's for some reason there there's a block there then you got to satisfy that requirement in future stance. So you got to have all those check marks in place you got to make sure that you validate it and after it's validated then we certify it. Once it's certified, we're we're more than happy for an airport to go purchase it.
▶ 2:36:03And this vendor, would this vendor be the one that would be approved for use in other airports than across the country? Yes, sir. Okay. And tell me about the business case. What do you mean by that? The business case for a remote tower? Just um you know, they have to basically provide uh the business proposal on what it's going to look like and how we're going to basically do a conop a concept of operations and uh ensure how it's going to be available. So, that's what the vendor is doing. I know um that we do have that vendor on site and they are actually going to have something called a an industry day.
▶ 2:36:31I'm loosely putting that around parenthesis, but it will be available for viewing by people that might be interested in this in uh summer and uh we are actually encouraging people to go see this because we see it as very promising technology and we see it maturing to the point that um this should be available soon. Okay. I don't want to have this be a gotcha either. This is I'm just a freshman. And I can see a lot of the question seems to be uh how come the FAA hasn't done this or when can I expect this or that by this this deadline.
▶ 2:36:57Um so the the spirit of this question is just genuine sincerity and knowing um the 2018 FA authorization reauthorization had provisions with respect to remote towers and here we are seven years later. What's been happening in that seven-year period? Like what's the delay? what you know it seems to me like we'd ideally be able to put together a business case and a safety case for remote towers.
▶ 2:37:22Why has it been so long and what's going to prevent me from being here seven years from now or eight years from now asking you the same question? I think seven years from now we're going to say that remote tower got done. Um to answer your question, sir, uh the reason why I stressed the business case and the safety case was the remote towers that were used at some of our test locations were not able to produce that safety case where we were able to credential it or validate it. And that's very important.
▶ 2:37:48We the crux of all these conversations has been around safety and rightfully so. We need to make sure that we ensure those thresholds through that safety case that you and I are speaking to because when we certify that piece of equipment or say this is available for purchase, everyone should be able to say we can purchase it and it will it will uh fulfill the commitment to safety and we won't have to go back or worry about these things. It is a very tedious process.
▶ 2:38:14It's tedious by design, but once it goes through, then we're in a good place and I do feel that we're in a very good place with this moving forward. Great. Uh, last question. Just stepping back more generally, can you talk about what barriers the FAA has in certifying or implementing innovative technologies over the course of the service life in our in our current systems?
▶ 2:38:36I I think the the our largest obstacle in certifying new technologies is people wanting to not give up the old We we have some old technology, but people do not want to retrofit to take advantage of a lot of these new. Who when you say people, who are you referring to? Well, we we have So, there's there's general aviation pilots. Some of our general aviation pilots don't want to do that. Um, it's personal choice, but for me, I think we need to start talking about best equipped, best served.
▶ 2:39:06We need to start moving our advancements in technology forward so we can fully utilize our nextgen benefits. I can design a whole new New York market with PBN procedures and satellite procedures that would make all of our airports much more efficient.
▶ 2:39:21But because we don't want to go away from some of these these legacy instrument landing systems that require vectors from controllers and altitudes from controllers versus building performance-based navigation, we cannot we cannot get to that point of efficiency and safety that we want to. We have to give up some of our past to make those technological leaps forward. It's preventing us from doing that. Thank you very much. I see my time has expired, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you. Well said, Mr. McIntosh.
▶ 2:39:49I now recognize Miss Sykes for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and and thank you to all of the uh the witnesses. I just want to start by thanking you. I know the work that the Federal Aviation Administration does is very critical to the function of our nation and I appreciate the dedication shown by each of you for choosing to serve your country through public service.
▶ 2:40:10And as someone who flies regularly, I am personally invested in this, but also the American public at large is as well, especially as there have been challenges in some of our major airports. And I hope you look at members of Congress as your partners and allies as we look to find ways to improve our aviation safety and our networks. Last year, President Biden signed in to law the bipartisan FA Reauthorization Act of 2024, which is the reason why we are here today.
▶ 2:40:38And I am pleased to report that through the uh bipartisan negotiations of the bill, several of my requests were adopted into the final language uh that was signed into law. A chief among those requests was to increase and expand the a airport improvement program for which this committee appropriated $4 billion. Uh and this amounts to about 650 million annual dollars in increased funding for the program.
▶ 2:41:02The bill also changed the airport improvement programs a portionment for formula to increase funding for small and midsize airports such as the Akran Canton airport which I frequent regularly and this is funding that the airport desperately needed. Uh grants from the airport improvement program ensure regional airports like Akran Canton are able to complete terminal developments projects that address aging air infrastructure. In fact, CAK was fortunate to receive $3.6 million for fiscal year 25.
▶ 2:41:31Uh because of the investments from this program, uh Akran can and other regional airports across the country have made significant improvements to their facilities that are essential in our communities and ensuring that regional airports remain in vital part of our network. However, given some of the administration's tendency to freeze funding and in some cases end it, I have some concerns about the longevity of the airport improvement program and the reliability of the funding. Uh so, Miss Baker, I'll start with you and then move to Mr. Hibbeck.
▶ 2:41:59Have you heard of any changes being made to this to the eligibility criteria? And if so, what are those changes? I'll go ahead and let Mr. Hibbec answer. Yes, thank you, Congresswoman. Uh so, as part of reauthorization, uh you are correct. In fact, there were several changes uh uh precipitated by the legislation to b to the benefit of smaller airports both in the uh small airport fund.
▶ 2:42:22You mentioned one of them the state aortionment uh uh allocation was um changed so that there is now more in the state aortionment. Uh to answer your question, I am not concerned at all. Uh as I indicated earlier in my testimony, uh we are moving forward with the entire $4 billion in airport improvement program. Uh we thank Congress for the increase of $650 million.
▶ 2:42:48Um the reason you haven't seen grants there yet is we were uh there's a process you go through to get your aortionment from OM and we now have that aortionment and we are programming grants and we'll be moving forward with the program. Great. That's good news to hear. Um section 624 uh directs the FAA to submit a report on the process by which air traffic control towers are chosen for replacement. Um maintain and publish what needs to be replaced um and and what has not.
▶ 2:43:16Akran airport has the distinction of having the oldest air traffic control tower in the nation. Uh the elevator breaks frequently requiring staff members to take the stairs to the top. It is not ADA compliant and there is only one entrance and exit to the tower. Uh Akran Canon airport tower is not on the list that uh is maintained by the FA. I looked it up as as recent as today. It was updated May 15, 2025.
▶ 2:43:41Uh with all of those things that I stated, what do you have to do to get a new air traffic uh control tower if uh one like the one in my district is is in disrepair as it is today? That's a great question, ma'am. I I know that um we get that asked a lot. We have a lot of towers that are 60 years old, 50 years old and and they're old and they're antiquated.
▶ 2:44:03There is a formula that um produces a total composite score and that's how um they are prioritized. We take a look at um line of sight from a tower. Basically, if if you're an air traffic controller, can you see the entire field? We take a look at the age of a tower.
▶ 2:44:25We take a look at um the overall facility condition of that tower um as well as the total amount of operations and from that score it's how it becomes prioritized. We have a list. I'd be more than happy to share the list with you and hopefully that'll share you know where it is on that that ranking list there. Thank you very much. I only have a couple of seconds. I know that uh there was some language that uh required some compliance in a report on employee assault and prevention plan.
▶ 2:44:52uh in the very limited time I have, can anyone provide us an update on that? Uh I have to go back and get the specifics. I believe we have gathered the information and I believe we've provided a briefing, but we can certainly get back with you on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Gentle lady yields and I recognize Mr. Man for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here today. I represent the big first district of Kansas and aviation has a critical, you know, industry in our state.
▶ 2:45:22A lot of history. We have roughly a 100 general aviation airports in my district, several commercial regional airports, a huge footprint in aviation, aerospace manufacturing. The FA Realing Act of 2024 included critical provisions to ensure that our aviation industries were able to improve services, bolster our workforce, and promote American innovation.
▶ 2:45:42I'm grateful um that we now have President Trump leading the way on fixing problems for the past at the FAA and and I know that this administration will waste no time in implementing the provisions set forth on in our bill and uh so the aviation industry can get to work. Um just a few questions. Um appreciate what you all do.
▶ 2:45:58M Miss Baker, uh the 2022 ratherization created a manufacturing development program to complement existing ones focused on pilots and maintenance technicians which would help recruit, train, and retain workers critical to both safety and industry competitiveness. Can you share with the committee where the agency is in implementation of the manufacturing component of the workforce development program and any efforts to jumpstart Could you repeat the the manufacturer the the start?
▶ 2:46:29Uh well well you know the specific thing is the manufacturing development program manufacturing development y uh I'm not familiar with that specific program. I'll have to get back with you on that. Again we are committed to recruiting and training and making opportunities um particularly around the area of aviation workforce grants. We have our fiscal year 24 submissions that have come in. Um we're working to select out of the fiscal year 24. We're getting ready to do a notice of funding opportunity for fiscal year 25.
▶ 2:46:58Um so that there's going to be workforce grants there. We're also looking at how we can smooth the transition between military mechanics and uh the civilian workforce. So we're definitely making strides in that area. We can look into the specifics of the program you asked. Okay. And we can get you more specifics on our app as well. So thank you. Um, one of FAA's most successful government industry partnerships, um, I believe is the FAA contractwide program.
▶ 2:47:22As a previous reference, I was proud to see several of my produce to strengthen the program and its workforce included in the reauthorization and look forward to the FAA implementing these provisions to ensure their stability at FCT. A few years ago, the FAA moved administration of the FCT program to the program management organization, PMO.
▶ 2:47:41This regularization separated the FCT program from air traffic services and I'm concerned that the separation from air traffic control practitioners and operational perspective has eroded the collaborative spirit that made it work so well for decades. So quick question Mr. McIntosh. Can you provide u me with the rationale as to why the FCT program was moved to PMO from the air traffic services? Yes sir, I'd be happy to.
▶ 2:48:04And um hopefully I I can uh give you some some idea of the organizational structure to give you a little bit of um a little bit of comfort there. Yeah. So the project the the PMO it is under the air traffic organization and then we have an air traffic service unit. So the air traffic service unit is oversees air traffic controllers things. Well the PMO oversees the programs. The PMO is they have specialties in contracts and the execution of those contracts.
▶ 2:48:30So, um, those vice presidents and those deputy vice presidents, they sit in the same room next to one another. It's just we have specialization from the PMO that oversees that contract, but air traffic is there all along the way to make sure that that they're giving information on the operational needs of those FCTs. Okay, thank you. That's helpful. Um, just final question and that would be um for you again, Miss Baker.
▶ 2:48:52Um, section 818 of the authorization act directs the FAA to take action to eliminate the backlog of part 135 air carrier certificate applicants. I understand that current application acceptance or ejection time is now down to 31 days due to FA appropriate actions. We've made tremendous progress. What lessons did the FA learn in the process of eliminating the backlog? And has the agency made any changes to ensure that application approval times don't balloon again? Uh, thanks for the question.
▶ 2:49:22I think we did a couple things. I think first we dedicated a specific team to doing these reviews. So that became their full-time job. So uh specialization of experience and dedicated team is definitely one thing. Additionally, we're looking at how can we leverage delegation to to help people through the 135 certification process, particularly for low-risk or more simple 135 certification, which means essentially there's a lighter touch by the FAA, so it can go more more quickly. Great. Thank you. Uh with that, uh Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 2:49:51Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Garcia of California. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Of course, thank you to all of our witnesses that are here as well. Thank you for for being here. Obviously, the American public are in incredibly concerned right now about the safety and stability of our air traffic control system and the FAA more broadly. I think we're seeing that. I certainly hear it when I go back home. This is a top concern of folks back in the communities I represent. Now, this week, we've seen delays for up to seven hours, of course, at New York Airport.
▶ 2:50:19We've discussed that today because of reduced capacity and extreme understaffing um in my home airport uh in in Long Beach, California. We've I've also talked to air traffic controllers. We are short the staffing levels that we need for people to really feel safe. And I also just saw reporting um this morning that air traffic controllers in Denver actually lost radio communications for about six minutes on Monday. And so just really briefly, Mr. Macintosh, can you confirm if that reporting is actually accurate?
▶ 2:50:48I thank you for the question. Um some of it we we feel is accurate but I I don't think um the severity of it was captured correctly. So on Monday uh at Denver Center there was a loss of one of the frequencies and an area um in Denver has multiple frequencies that they have but we did have aircraft on one frequency and the controllers went to their backup frequency. Every facility's got a main and a backup.
▶ 2:51:15When the backup went down and it went down for approximately two minutes, the controller recovered via the emergency pre procedures that they have and I believe it was down for approximately 2 minutes. We also have access to another frequency which is 121.5. That's the emergency frequency that is all throughout the country.
▶ 2:51:35So the controller went to 121.5 which was at their workstation was able to transmit to the aircraft to come up to a secondary frequency for the aircraft to listen to. It's also important to note that the aircraft at the time of that frequency outage were they were all separated by air traffic procedures and separation standards. There was no loss of separation. I know it said six minutes. I think that was overexaggerated sir. Okay. Well thank you.
▶ 2:52:02I mean uh obviously regardless of the time um anytime there's these rate these outages which are happening now of course more regularly it's very concerning and um that that reporting this morning is it adds to I think the concern of members of this of this committee. Now we know that there are staffing and equipment problems at air traffic control. We know that the problems have gone back decades in some cases but it's still an absolutely shocking system failure and we need immediate solutions.
▶ 2:52:26Now, this committee, of course, did great work last year by passing an FAA reauthorization bill that makes important investments, but there's still much work left to fix the staffing challenges and build up modern infrastructure. And I personally believe that the administration's policies have been inconsistent and incoherent with that work. Of course, they fired FAA employees, which we know has been brought up many times. Of course, Elon Musk and Doge sent out their deferred resignation offer to government employees.
▶ 2:52:50More than 700 people at FAA accepted that offer and that's even with the admins backtracking and scrambling to get to keep critical staff. On top of that, experienced leaders across the agency are resigning. You all know this, including the heads of air traffic control and the commercial space office. Then to cap all this off, Secretary Duffy suggested there might even be more layoffs later this month, which is completely unacceptable and crazy.
▶ 2:53:14This is not a way to run an agency, especially if one if we all need to know and know that huge investments are actually needed in the workforce, technology, and infrastructure. So, I'm really glad that you're all here to give your expertise today. I you know, for me, I can tell you that my single biggest question is what's the actual plan from Donald Trump, the president, and Secretary Duffy. There does not seem to be a master plan. Are there going to be more layoffs? What positions are going to be eliminated? What's the funding plan look like?
▶ 2:53:40Secretary Duffy has said, "We're hiring more air traffic controllers," which is great if it happens. We all agree. But we also know that people in the FAA's aviation safety division, aircraft certification office, flight standards office, and the air traffic organization, folks there were fired in this last year, and we know many of them have yet to be rehired. So, we're we're awaiting those changes. Now, we know how important it is to get our systems right and update our greater and telecom systems.
▶ 2:54:06It's really concerning, of course, in the aftermath of what's happened here, the crash in DC in January, that we had Elon Musk, a White House employee, using his using the crisis, in my opinion, to try to make himself even richer. Now, he tweeted multiple times about having his own company take over a multi-billion dollar Verizon contract. Mr. Collins, I know the Inspector General's office is looking into this as well, but I have to ask, since January, has the FAA awarded any contracts to any of Mr.
▶ 2:54:35Musk's I'd have to get back to you on that. Yeah, we'd like we would definitely like to know that. And are there do you know if there's any plans to give new contracts to SpaceX or Starlink? Our understanding is that there is a contract with Starlink, but do you know how much that do you know the worth of of of that contract? I'll need to get back to you on this. We we we'd love to know that. And I'm going to wrap up. And Mr.
▶ 2:54:58Collins, can you think of other examples when the FA is contracted with companies owned by administration officials who are also helping make staffing and personnel decisions at your We are unaware of such circumstances. Thank you for that. I appreciate the honesty. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman's time is fired. Mr. Collins, you're recognized for five minutes. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Mrs. Baker, 23-year career with the FAA. Thank you. Congratulations.
▶ 2:55:26Uh, I want to I wanted to to when I saw you, I I had these two questions in mind that I wanted to go over with you if you don't mind. Um, and I I've only been up here, this is my second term, but I have been meeting continuously with the aviation industry and uh that community and and I want to go over one of the most common challenges that I continuously hear and uh that is the burdensome and slow certification process as compared to our foreign regulators such as
▶ 2:55:56uh and I don't know if I Yasha is that how you pronounce that? You got it. Yeah. Um, as a matter of fact, I've been told that at an American company, if you want to get it done faster, you just register as a foreign in one of the European comp uh countries, get it certified over there, and then the US will pretty much just write it off and certify it automatically. But if you stay here, it takes uh exponentially longer.
▶ 2:56:22Um, so what is the FAA doing to minimize these redundancies in the aircraft certification process and how is the agency improving procedures uh for these reciprocal approvals? Thanks for the question and thanks for recognition of 25 years at FAA. I'm sorry cut you by Uh so uh we've done a couple things. We've heard similar criticism that it can happen certification can happen more quickly overseas.
▶ 2:56:48Obviously we have a bilateral agreement with various certification authorities including YASA which is designed to smooth that process of certification between two countries. Uh we have contracted with a with MITER the MITER corporation to do a review of our type certification process to identify those efficiencies that we can find. Uh additionally we are working to train our engineers.
▶ 2:57:12We have a a skills enhancement program that we have have incorporated to allow our engineers to uh learn essentially learn from the industry and learn more about the products. Sometimes part of certification challenge is is getting new uh something new something new that doesn't fit into the regulatory system. We have to develop a special condition on how to certify it and that can be a a lengthy process.
▶ 2:57:35And by building up greater knowledge within the certification staff that allows us to go through that special certific special condition process more quickly, you know, and and I'm glad to hear that too because I think that's one of the things that a lot of the people in the private industry tell me is if there could be more public private collaboration because the industry is changing so fast and and they're on the cutting edge of it where you're just trying to certify it and that that may be a good solution for that. Um, also I want to go over something else. I don't know if you're aware.
▶ 2:58:03I'm sure you are, but I offered an amendment to the FAA reauthorization bill directing the agency to to study the certification and airspace integration of hypersonic passenger aircraft so that we can get ahead of the curve and uh stay in front of China and ensure that the FAA is ready when this new technology gets off the ground. Uh I want to ensure the hypersonic manufacturers don't deal with the same delays that we were just talking about on new entrance that uh they faced in recent years.
▶ 2:58:31Has the FAA begun working with NASA uh and aviation stakeholders to put this framework together? Yes, we have. Is there any further update than that? Uh it's we're in fairly early stages, but we are working with NASA to to implement that particular provision. Yeah, I know there's there's uh companies right now that are ready to to test fly these things and and sitting already. So, I don't know if if you've got a completion date in mind.
▶ 2:58:58Uh not not a specific date, but we're aware of the company in particular and we're working with them. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields and now recognize Miss Pole for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I echo my comment, my colleagues many concerns on the recent turmoil at Newark Airport. I represent the northern region part of New Jersey.
▶ 2:59:25Newark Liberty is one of the busiest airports in our nation. It's a central part of our region and nation. Our economy, our constituents, and tens of millions of Americans rely on it operating. NORC is also a major economic engine in our region, supporting tens of thousands of jobs and connecting New Jerseyians with the world. The repeated failures are completely unacceptable.
▶ 2:59:55They have led to thousands of delays, delayed and cancelled flights. They have shaken the confidence of the public and badly damaged the reputation of the airport. I am truly disappointed that the acting administrator Rushlo is not with us today.
▶ 3:00:15Just as I'm disappointed that the president has yet to nominate a permanent FAA um FAA administrator after forcing the last one out at all times, but especially at this moment, we need strong, reliable, and forward-looking leadership at the FAA.
▶ 3:00:36To that end, last week I led a letter with ranking members Larson and Cohen to the acting uh FAA chief seeking answers by May 20th, and we certainly expect to get them. Additionally, yesterday I joined my New Jersey delegation colleagues calling for an immediate surge of at least $2 billion to address the ongoing situation in at at the Newark airport.
▶ 3:01:05We need three things right now. We need answers. We need urgency. And we need funding. Mr. Min uh uh Mr. McIntosh, uh three air traffic controllers were on duty the other day instead of the recommended 14. How frequently does this happen? And is there a a a minimum number of air traffic controllers who must be on duty at any given time? Thank you for the question.
▶ 3:01:34Uh so yes, you are correct. For one hour we did go down to three controllers um in the Philadelphia area C. Um Tcon that is atypical. It does not happen um often. As far as how many controllers do you need? Uh we've worked on midshifts with just one controller. Um and that that is normal because traffic volume is down for a midshift. and we have two controllers to basically give each other a break.
▶ 3:02:03Um, one that will come in and they'll they'll rotate coming through for a swing shift. That is very very unusual, ma'am. Um, but that's based we had some we had some uh staffing losses the day of the shift uh unexpectedly. So the FA did what the FA always does when we have a short staffed facility or an extremely extremely short staffed area which we had the night of that you're speaking to.
▶ 3:02:31When those kind of events occur, ma'am, the um FAA will put in traffic management initiatives in um the night that you're speaking to. We put in a short ground delay program which slowed down the traffic to ensure that a controller working one position by themselves can handle that volume and that traffic complexity safely and efficiently. Now you realize that and and this this I think it's important for us to point out.
▶ 3:03:01So it it clearly clearly it it outlines and if you want to talk let's talk in clear uh language what is the risk of being so under staffed because clearly we already have experienced a number of different in incidents all throughout the country but especially in those particular areas where it's highly highly um utilized. So, what's the risk that we have right now?
▶ 3:03:27And please do so quickly because I I'd like to make sure that you if you get a chance that I want you to try to answer as well. What in and do you believe that airport would be facing these these issues today if FAA kept NORC within the New Jersey Tri uh region instead of relocating it to Philadelphia? So, two questions. The move to Philadelphia was absolutely necessary to prevent what we saw the other night.
▶ 3:03:56N90, the facility that owned that airspace, after over 10 years of incentives, the staffing continued to go down. And the long pro long-term projections of that facility showed that they were going to be in really poor shape staffing wise where traffic management initiatives that caused extreme delays weren't just atypical, they were going to be commonplace. We did not have an adequate pipeline of controllers wanting to go to N90.
▶ 3:04:22We needed to move the airspace because you were still under staff in Philadelphia. You're now questioning and talking about folks not wanting to go to Phil to be in New York but go to Philadelphia. If you were underst staff in Philadelphia, why would you expect that they would be in the position of being able to control both of those airspaces? It's only one airspace, ma'am. Well, but we're talking about a lot of the incidents and um problems that have occurred.
▶ 3:04:52I I want to make sure I address your question. We moved the airspace because we had a lack of a pipeline. Since we moved the airspace, I have CPCITs, that means professional controllers who are volunteering to go there. Before the only option we really had was sending academy graduates to the most congested airspace in the country. The success rate of our academy grads for the last 10 months at that facility was 23%. Only two out of 10 essentially were going to make it through the program.
▶ 3:05:22I've now moved the airspace. I have a high fidelity training program over at Philadelphia Area C as well as experienced controllers wanting to go there. Every class spot that I have at Philadelphia area C through now through 2026 is filled with a candidate that's got experience to work that level of traffic. That's why we moved the airspace. What you saw as far as ground delay programs due to staffing shortages is something that airspace would have seen in the coming years and it would have lasted for a long time.
▶ 3:05:51That airspace move was necessary to ensure that we had a enough controllers to work that airspace for the foreseeable future. It was going the wrong direction. And while I know there's some pain points now, what you're seeing now is what would have been ex exponentially worse in the future. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. KN. You're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To all the witnesses, thank you for your testimony.
▶ 3:06:17Thank you for the expertise that you're bringing, and we certainly appreciate this discussion as it's very important to all of us uh who utilize uh air travel so frequently. Uh Mr. Macintosh, I want to talk to you first. It seems as though there's a a common thread to a lot of these problems, which is either understaffing or a a a dimminimous number of people seek out to be an air traffic controller. One issue that I'd like to talk about is the academy in Oklahoma.
▶ 3:06:46And uh obviously we need to support and and boost that that program, but would it make sense to authorize either satellite campuses or additional uh footprints around the country to try to attract more air traffic controllers? Thank you for the question. We are exploring um collegiate training initiatives, so college training programs, and we have enhanced college training programs put in place.
▶ 3:07:08Now, uh, we have right now our CTIs, if someone comes out of a CTI school that teaches, um, air traffic academia, they are a candidate pool for our our FCTs, our federal contract towers, which is welcome news to them because right now their talent pool really is retired controllers. But this allows them to grab people coming right out of those What we've done now is we have enhanced collegiate training initiatives.
▶ 3:07:35These schools actually have um applied um for us at the FA to come in, validate their programs and say that they meet the same criteria that a student would have gone through the academy. Meaning that when they graduate from this enhanced CTI, uh when they graduate, they have the necessary um background and education to go to an FA facility directly. They bypass the academy. The additional requirements would be they would have to pass the air traffic skills assessment.
▶ 3:08:04same as you would for the academy anyways and of course you need a medical and you need a security clearance rightfully so with these programs that will add to that about how many of those programs do you have so right now uh we just rolled the program out we have uh five collegiate uh five programs that have been accepted but another 30 that have expressed interest so it's still in its its infancy we need to allow it to to mature we're going to see our first uh round of graduates uh and we're estimating 40 this spring I know it doesn't sound like a lot but We will see that
▶ 3:08:34number ramp up with more schools applying and being accepted. And when you start talking about where we are, if you get another 200 250, it makes a difference. Huge difference. Yes sir. And in regards to do you see any any issue in in again having two campuses of the academy or is one meeting the needs of the of the day? Right now we have we have the main campus. We are looking at regional training centers right now that kind of help um take some of the burden off of the academy. We're not looking to take any student away from the academy.
▶ 3:09:04We're just looking to um rapid fire and and assume some of the other additional courses. So, we are looking at regional training. We actually are going to do regional training at Atlanta and it makes sense to do so. Um as an air traffic controller, I'm sure you can imagine your training is never over. No, you continue to go through your whole entire career and you learn. So, the ability to go to a regional training center and perhaps do an intermediate class and let the academy focus on just putting people through to be future air traffic controllers. That's what we're concentrating on now.
▶ 3:09:35We're exploring other options as well. It's vital to our success to make sure that that pipeline is robust and is full. Right. And more locations would arguably add to the pipeline cultivation. I wouldn't be able to argue with that, sir. That's right. And um just on a on a on a secondary issue in terms of artificial intelligence going into the space, have you all already seen that coming in or is it something you're preparing for and how is that going to affect the future of air traffic controlling?
▶ 3:10:02I I know that AI has been discussed, but I don't know if it's been anything more than um just just nothing concrete to actually put into a plan. We we've spoken about you know what is the role of AI but I haven't seen anything concrete to move that forward other than just conjecture at this point sir and is there any are there any models that around the world that utilize artificial intelligence and air traffic control? I I couldn't answer that question right now. The only AI I am aware of is some data analysis that our asas group is doing.
▶ 3:10:30That's to basically take you know some of the data on safety trends and start identifying trends with an AI piece. But as far as air traffic control, no sir, I'm not aware of any. Okay, Mr. Chairman, thank you. Do I yield back? Gentleman yields and now recognize Miss Freriedman for five minutes. I want to thank the witnesses and uh for being here today and certainly the chair and the ranking member for holding this important hearing. Uh before I was in Congress and before I was in the legislature, I actually sought sat on the Burbank uh Hollywood airport commission for six years.
▶ 3:11:01Really enjoyed my time there. worked very hard to get an approval for a new terminal which is a 350,000 square foot new terminal that will be much much safer for the traveling public than the current 1930s 1920s terminal. We've had a heard a lot of discussion today around the impacts of the Doge cuts to personnel at FAA uh to layoffs to over 400 probationary employees uh being laid off.
▶ 3:11:25I want to shift gear away from the air traffic control uh discussion and a little bit more towards terminal like airports like Burbank that are undergoing construction. Uh the airport received several grants for the airport terminal program including almost $10 million for this this year. This is critical funding for the airport to continue its construction to keep people safe when they're traveling.
▶ 3:11:48but they have raised concerns regarding the staffing at the FAA because they need that staffing to be able to process and review their grant applications uh to make sure that they're on track for everything that they need to do for their NEPA documents for the airport layout layout plans. So that staffing is critical to airports that are under construction. Uh the FAA reauthorization act of 2024 included around 500 new requirements for the FAA, all of which require sufficient staffing.
▶ 3:12:18So with those employees being laid off, this the the the 400 probationary employees that the administration laid off um and the others that took early retirements because of the Doge um uh requests. I am wondering how those airports are going to get their requests processed on time.
▶ 3:12:39Committee Democrats have sent several oversight letters to the FAA asking about how the mass layoffs are going to affect the airport statutory requirements with the reduced staffing and we haven't gotten a response from the FAA. My guess is that there's nobody there to actually give us a response because they were probably laid off.
▶ 3:12:59So, I wanted to ask Miss Baker, with reduced staffing, can the FAA, how does the FAA ensure a smooth and timely response for critical safety projects like the one at the Burbank Airport? Mr. Hime, would you like to answer about airports? Uh, sure. I can take the airport's questions. Thank you very much for your question, Congresswoman. Um, we are monitoring the situation. First, I want to say any any um uh probationary employee that wanted to return to work is back at work uh at the FAA.
▶ 3:13:28Uh secondly, um we are um anybody who has voluntarily decided to take the deferred resignation program uh uh we are watching and monitoring that closely and where we find a need. We will work across geographic boundaries to fill that gap. Uh about your your point about the safety uh critical safety critical infrastructure projects. Uh our engineers are exempt from the designate uh deferred resignation program.
▶ 3:13:56Uh so they they pretty much oversee all the construction of those. In terms of the grant applications of which I'm sure you received numerous grants applications all the time the people who are doing helping doing the NEP reviews all of those processes also require personnel. That's what people in this part of government do and there's just a lot less of them now. So there there is a real concern and all of those things are a higher priority for us and we are prioritizing our regulatory and legislative responsibilities to the extent we need to.
▶ 3:14:26Uh but I can assure you that uh continuing to ensure that critical safety infrastructure projects advance is our top priority and I'm glad to hear it and I hope that the staffing levels are brought up so that we can reflect that. I want to switch gears to something I don't think has been talked about which is drones. So I represent Hollywood. I represent the Hollywood Bowl, Universal uh theme park, u the Rose Bowl. These are all areas that are large public venues that have thousands of people who are in outdoor spaces.
▶ 3:14:56Now, there's a lot of positive use of drone technology, of course. Now, Universal and other designated entities listed in the FAA Extension Safety and Security Act from 206 have to be able to mitigate potential safety risk posed by unauthorized drone risk.
▶ 3:15:12Um, in 2024, Congress again updated the deadline for rulemaking to be 90 days after the enactment of the most uh after the most recent reauthorization bill, but we still haven't seen a a notice of proposed rulemaking and our venues, our public venues are very concerned. We have the Olympics, we have the World Cup coming, we have thou tens of thousands of people at our theme parks every single day and we haven't seen the rule making to keep the public safe with regard to unauthorized drones. And I'm wondering if anyone can comment.
▶ 3:15:43So I think uh yesterday there was a press release from the department of transportation showing that those rules have continued through their review process and have proceeded to the office of management and budget. So we're getting very close to releasing the NPRM for um beyond visual line of sight and 2209 critical infrastructure. Good. Well, I hope that this time those rules get done and I hope that they're very um protective of the public as their number one goal. Thank you and I back eager to see those out. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Miss King Hines. Thank you, Mr. Mr.
▶ 3:16:13Chair, good afternoon. I represent the Commonwealth of the Northern Marana Islands, a territory in the Indo-Pacific located closer to Taipei than to Washington DC. Our islands are home to forward operating ports and runways that are vital to America's presence and national security posture in the Pacific. So, as we review the implementation of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024, I want to underscore a key principle. National security is not just about force projection.
▶ 3:16:43It's about economic self-sufficiency in places that matter strategically. The resilience of our infrastructure directly affects the re reliability of our deterrence posture. So if our ports cannot support steady civilian and commercial operations, they cannot be relied on on a in a time of crisis.
▶ 3:17:03When we fail to invest in economic sustainability for frontline jurisdictions like the CNMI, we erode readiness, weaken logistics, and leave the Indoacific less stable. So investing in CNMI ports, airports, and workforce capacity is not a matter of regional equity. It's a matter of national security interests. And what I found since my time here in Congress, this is my first term, is that it's not that people don't care or they're not interested.
▶ 3:17:30is that there is a lack of information with regards to some of these how some of these policies are impacting the CNMI. And so this is not really a question but an ask to Mr. Collins to see if we could actually get a CNMI or a territory specific with regards to the implementation of the FAA authorization act.
▶ 3:17:53um how the rules um work towards economic develop how how ports are critical to the economic development of these regions and how the strategic value of the of the ports are play towards the broader national security conversations. Um you know we rely on the GAO reports to make informed decisions.
▶ 3:18:16I was trying to find uh CNMI specific or insular area specific studies that have been done with regards to some of uh the manner in which the FAA authorization act has applied to our area. I didn't find any and so it'd be just great to actually have something on record uh given the fact that we lack a lot of data and there are very minimal conversations out there with regards to some of these rules.
▶ 3:18:48So, we'd be happy to work with uh your staff and talk about uh potential requests around those issues. Thank you. I yield my time, Mr. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Miss Gillan. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses appearing here today. I am proud to represent New York's fourth congressional district on the southshore of Long Island, which is home to New York Treycon, which is commonly referred to as N90.
▶ 3:19:18N90 plays a critical role in maintaining and managing the most complex and congested airspace in our country, including LaGuardia JFK uh airports. Despite the strong objections of the New York congressional delegation last summer, the FAA needlessly relocated 12 air traffic controllers responsible for overseeing New York Liberty International Airport from N90 on Long Island to Philadelphia.
▶ 3:19:46This reckless decision not only uprooted critical civil servants from their families, from their friends, from their lives, it put the safety of our airspace at risk. The FAA finalized a safety report in 2022 which clearly spelled out major issues that could arise, including data outages resulting in loss of communication lines and surveillance support.
▶ 3:20:11The report classifies these risks as a quote major hazard unquote. But the FAA claimed that there was only a medium overall risk because in the FAA's estimation, the likelihood of an outage was quote extremely remote unquote. Mr. Chairman, that is exactly what has happened.
▶ 3:20:34Twice over the last two and a half weeks, radar and communication systems that help controllers direct planes in and out of Newark failed for as long as 90 seconds at a time. This left controllers unable to see or talk to planes in the area. I'm going to repeat that. This left controllers unable to see or talk to planes in that area, the most congested airspace in our country.
▶ 3:21:01This led to major delays and cancellations and left passengers stranded. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter this article from May 9th into the record. The article quotes a former air traffic controller and current professor of aviation who calls the FAA's calculation on the likelihood of an outage quote out of step with operational reality unquote.
▶ 3:21:25The article also quotes the former inspector general of the Department of Transportation who accuses the FAA of downplaying the risk of the move and calling the recent outages terrifying. My question is for Mr. Macintosh and Miss Baker. Do you still agree with the assessment in the report that the risks associated with this move were extremely remote? Yes, ma'am, I do. Why is that, sir? We followed the safety risk panel.
▶ 3:21:51We took everything into account as far as our redundancies and our known telco providers and what they could provide years of reliable service in the way that this is done. And we've have this same setup that we have in Philadelphia area C across the country. So you think two incidences in two and a half weeks is okay? I didn't say that, ma'am. So but you don't think it's remote? I do believe that it's remote. You do believe it's remote? Yes, ma'am.
▶ 3:22:20Even though it happened twice in two and a half weeks, the two outages were related to the same. So once the identified once we were able to work with the telco provider who was providing the service to the FAA and we identified exactly what occurred, we provided the necessary mitigations to prevent that from happening again. Miss Baker, do you agree with that assessment? I agree that air traffic did is a safety risk management panel and I they found what they found.
▶ 3:22:49Well, I think that if it happened twice in two and a half weeks, that's not remote, sir. Um, knowing what you know today, would you still make those that same move, Mr. Macintosh? Yes, ma'am. I would. Miss Baker, this is air traffic. Air traffic would still make the same decision. And have you talked to union members who have said it's making their jobs extremely difficult to have to get on a phone call to talk some to someone?
▶ 3:23:19many many miles away to talk about the airspace that they're trying to keep safe. Yes, ma'am. I went and visited Philadelphia area C uh the very next day as well as uh Secretary Duffy. We spoke with multiple controllers as well as multiple managers at uh Philadelphia to assess exactly what was going on.
▶ 3:23:42And we also deployed a team of technicians and senior executives that worked with the provider as well as our support mechanism to provide that mitigation to ensure that that didn't happen again. And in this article, the air traffic controllers talked about extreme trauma that they experienced because of these outages. Are you taking any consideration of how your air traffic controllers feel with this move? Yes, ma'am.
▶ 3:24:10We our controllers mental welfare is always one of our top concerns. We care about our employees. That move was necessary to ensure the vitality of New York market remained in an upward trajectory versus where it currently was and what we were forecasting it to be. Making moves like this aren't easy decisions, but we made the decision what was the best interest of the NAS and also in the best interest of the flying public. Well, the gentle lady's time is expired.
▶ 3:24:38If you want that entered into the record, Miss Gillan, I'll do so without objection. Mr. uh Wonder, you're recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses here today. Um Mr. Collins, the FAA has spent um in your testimony, $14 billion on NextGen since 2007 with overall cost projected to hit 35 billion by 2030.
▶ 3:25:04Has the GAO seen a good return on this federal investment or is there evidence that we're spending more for We think uh implementing our open recommendations would help improve the modernization effort in particular around uh program management and providing cost schedule and timelines for the various initiatives.
▶ 3:25:29So, you noted um in your testimony that the FAA has yet to implement nine out of 11 GAO recommendations related to modernization and delays. Uh what have you identified specific barriers um that prevent the FAA from acting out your recommendations in a timely way? Uh we have not identified the barriers that FAA has.
▶ 3:25:53Um what we find helpful is when uh Congress is uh emphasizes the need to implement our open recommendations. Okay, good. Um the the act um Mr. Collins directs the FAA to maximize air traffic controller hiring and evaluate limiting factors based on your current work. Uh what are the most significant bottlenecks that the GAO has identified in preventing the FAA from hitting its hiring targets?
▶ 3:26:22So that that work is ongoing. Um that that team is uh focused on recruiting, hiring, and training. And we hope to have that uh report issued in the fall. Yeah. And we've heard quite a bit about that from the other witnesses. Um in several areas, controller, staffing, drones, airport infrastructure. You noted the FAA has initiatives underway. Um, is the FAA clearly identifying the performance metrics and outcomes taxpayers should expect from these initiatives?
▶ 3:26:54So, in our prior work, identifying performance measures has come up across several of the uh initiatives underway. Okay. Thank you. Um, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Figures for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. chairman and thank you to each of you for being public servants and and also for being here today. Always saying these things. The good thing about seeing me means that you're getting close to the end uh most of the time.
▶ 3:27:23But uh I represent uh district 2 in Alabama. It's the southern thirdish of the state. Um and so from Mobile to Montgomery, uh great aviation history. Tuskegee is in my district. Obviously the Tuskegee Airman the story history there. Um, Mobile is currently in the process of building a new international airport, which the head nods um is uh warming to me to know that you guys know about that.
▶ 3:27:49Um, but um it's a it's a huge infrastructure project, a huge investment um that the that the area is undertaking. Can you guys um Mr. Hibbeck. Um, can you tell me the impact that tariffs are that you guys are seeing have on uh construction projects or particularly for terminals and and airport upgrades? Um, and how's the FAA looking at ways to mitigate potential impacts so that it doesn't make these projects unfeasible.
▶ 3:28:17Uh, thank you for the question, uh, Congressman, and I just want to say that I met with the Tus the Tuskegee Airport. So, um, they have a great good number of projects there that they're looking at. Uh unfortunately, I'm not aware at this point of any impacts uh that the tariffs are having on our construction projects. Got it. Uh and shifting over to an issue I know that we've spent a lot of time on today, but the staffing shortages in general. Uh Mr. Speaker, I'll direct this one to you.
▶ 3:28:43Um you know, recent staffing reductions at FAA have uh obviously raised concerns not only about the internal capacity, but also about the consistency of communication and oversight across the system. I think we all have the same goal at the end of the day for these systems to be as safe as they possibly can. Um, what do you see as the biggest challenge created by the staffing shortage? Just the most immediate uh threat created by uh the current staffing um environment that we're seeing at the FAA.
▶ 3:29:09So again, the great thing about aviation safety is we've been able to protect so much of our workforce and maintain a lot of our workforce. um greatest challenges to us is something that we've we're uh actually accustomed to dealing with which is uh turnover of employees, folks taking new jobs. Uh again, we're a resilient workforce. It's not unexpected to us, but every time we move somebody, there's a spool up period. They're learning a new job. We remain focused on areas of risk and and that always maintains is our priority. Got it. Got it.
▶ 3:29:39Uh and coming back to this airport terminal, uh Mr. Macintosh in and mobile um the uh oh I'm sorry Mr. Hibbec. Um with the slow in the slowdown in funding streams that we're seeing and cuts and different uh policy shifts towards grant um grant making, how are we ensuring that growing regional airports like Mobile, those that need to grow that are legitimately in the process of growing?
▶ 3:30:07Um how are we making sure that they can continue to access those infrastructure funds in this current environment? Um those those funds authorized by the reauthorization of 2024. Uh I think there's good news there in that um the reauthorization act um and again thank Congress for the increase in a airport improvement program funding to four billion.
▶ 3:30:27Uh but they did um uh the the authorization act also included other provisions that expand funding uh and funding eligibility for smaller airports in the country. Uh for example, state aortionment funding. Um the minimum uh amount of aortment for non-hub airports went up from $1 to $1.3 million.
▶ 3:30:49So I I think there's this is a step in the right direction and that the reauthorization act provides a good bit of funding to the small and regional airports. And is there a lot of um unobligated money um in those pots that you just spoke of that has yet to reach? No. Um no, we are fully executing to the law. Okay. Um and uh I I stated earlier that uh the airport improvement program uh for for fiscal year 25 is just getting underway.
▶ 3:31:18Uh we had an appropriation, but it takes a little time after that to get a an aortion get out the door. And the have did the president's funding freezes impact any of that money. We uh just recently announced $790 million in grant funding under IIGJA. Uh and uh also we as projects under the airport terminal program uh are ready to go under grant uh we're doing one final review of those before we're rolling those grants out.
▶ 3:31:46Um and in addition like I said AIP will start moving very shortly. Well I appreciate it and appreciate you got uh you guys' time. Mr. Chairman I yield back. Gentleman yields and I will recognize Mr. Weed for five minutes. Well thank you all for being here. It's great to see you. Uh first question for Mr. Hibbeck and Mr. Macintosh. Um either one or both as we discuss modernization efforts of the national airspace system more broadly.
▶ 3:32:10It's important to me to ensure that smaller airports like in my district, we've got two great airports uh in northeastern Wisconsin and Green Bay and Apple uh to make sure that they're not left behind. It's it's these airports that don't have, as you know, the 247 ATC staffing that rely the most on critical automated systems like AWAS and ASOS, weather reporting to ensure that operations can be carried out safely at all hours.
▶ 3:32:36With this in mind, is the FAA committed to ensuring that smaller airports like ours uh that rely on these systems the most are prioritized in any system modernization efforts moving forward? Uh yes, I would go back again and just repeat that um the reauthorization act has uh made certain changes to formulas and and funding streams uh as well as set up new programs geared towards smaller airports.
▶ 3:33:02Um there's a uh secondary runway pilot program instituted by um by the authorization act uh as well as a small uh small letter of in small airport letter of intent program uh geared to usually that was for reserved for larger airports. So yes uh uh under the great leadership of Congress and and and setting forward these provisions uh we will execute to that law and so yes we will support modernization of small airports. Great. All right.
▶ 3:33:32So Miss Baker uh as I'm sure you will agree safety is the primary concern for all FAA requirements especially those relating to air aircraft manufacturing. In some cases, the FAA and foreign regulators have different safety standards or approaches to the certification process, including high-risisk flight testing and fire protection standards.
▶ 3:33:53Last year's FAA REIO, specifically sections 311 and 313 instructed the agency to focus on harmonizing these regulatory standards internationally. Can you provide an update on where the FAA is at in this We have ongoing conversations with our international partners. We have several routine several regularly meeting groups. Uh we have our certification oversight board. We have our bilateral oversight board with I with YASA.
▶ 3:34:23Uh so we're always working on issues of harmonization around improving the type certification process. We have made an arrangement with MITER to do a study for us on how to make the type certification process more efficient. And we're also taking a look at the uh using flight test or using analysis i.e. digital twins something along those lines in lie of high-risisk flight tests. So we're we're executing against all of those provisions. Okay. Uh thank you.
▶ 3:34:50Additionally, the reauthorization focused on the importance of sufficient resources and training for FAA's certification workforce. Can you tell the committee what efforts have been undertaken to bolster certification personnel and their critical safety oversight responsibilities? Absolutely. So, our certification personnel are except from any kind of hiring freeze. So, we continue to hire engineers uh to to the workforce. Additionally, we really are leaning into we call it our aviation skills or aviation skills.
▶ 3:35:19I'm thinking I drawn a blank on the the end of that acronym. Essentially what the program does is it gets our engineers out to manufacturers, not just the manufacturer that they're assigned to, so they can learn about new new technologies coming into the system, new manufacturing procedures, and we're sharing that across the larger workforce. So they all become more efficient, they all get better at the at the work in general. So yeah, we are doing work around uh certification engineers. Okay, great. Thank you.
▶ 3:35:44Um, and lastly, the commercial drone industry has already provided millions of dollars in savings while also saving many lives. And recent natural disasters, including wildfires in California, earthquakes, and flooding in North Carolina, have highlighted the critical role drones play in emergency response.
▶ 3:36:03In order to realize the industry's full potential to reduce traffic congestion, lower carbon emissions, and improve worker safety, the FAA must publish rules to allow drone operators to conduct beyond visual line of sight um operations, which right now is only permitted by exemption. Section 930 of the FAA Reauth act of 2024 directed the FAA to publish a draft of the uh the visual line of sight rule within four months of enactment.
▶ 3:36:32and that was on September 16th of 24 and finalized the rule within 16 months. Uh a proposed rule was prepared last year but was stalled at the OM's office of information and regulatory affairs. So in February the proposed rule was resubmitted for executive level review. Do you have any insights into the timeline for this rule and when you think it'll likely be published? No one wants this rule out more than I do and it did make another step yesterday. It is now back with the Office of Management and Budget.
▶ 3:37:01So it is is continuing its review. It is very close to it. It goes through that next stage of review. Then it can be published as an NPRM. It's back. So what would be the hangup? Like what what's causing the delay? Uh we've got some inter agency feedback that we needed to address at the at the previous man uh OIR review and got some feedback to to incorporate. It's making the rule better and now it's moved back along. Okay. Well, thank you all. I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr.
▶ 3:37:31Dier for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the witnesses uh for being here. It's uh exciting and feel a good sense I think the whole committee does and I will say personally just for having been involved in this bipartisan effort to reauthorize what was long overdue um and the infusion of money that the FAA asked for and the comments now from the secretary and the administration to add to that. But on the other side, I still it's hard to change a culture.
▶ 3:38:00The I've said this before, there's this institutional deviation when it comes to aviation where we recognize that there's risk and there's been not the proper investment. Um, but it's sort of acceptable. So, one of the real challenges I sense is the level of urgency. While you have to be methodical and you have to be thoughtful, there's still this we're we're in a race against time.
▶ 3:38:24we have been for some time that all those near misses were warning signs of a system that needed this investment. So just say that as an overall observation and if any of you have any comments I'd be pleased beyond my specific questions. Mr. Macintosh um last week ranking member Larson and I were in the SFO Tower. I represent an East Bay district. I've spent a lot of time with your members particularly on the West Coast.
▶ 3:38:50One of the things that came up was not just attracting and I like everything you're doing about incentivizing people to get in. So I'd like to ask two questions of you. Something came up in that conversation and should be obvious to all of us burnout of people who are right at the prime of their career.
▶ 3:39:06So a lot of what conversation there was um was retention that people are leaving early or they're not working at close to what their full attentive trained capacity is because of the burdens right now while we wait for this infusion. And the second part of the question is how do we go upstream?
▶ 3:39:27We know that the as you said in your background that the military was a perfect training for you for pilots and this goes to comments I've had from a famous pilot in my district um who has called me and said about kids coming out of the academy as pilots have never flown in real and clement weather in person. So they go off to the regionals and his and I've heard this from other pilots is they're not ready.
▶ 3:39:55So, how do we first of all deal with the retention right now and the urgency, but then how do we go back and create an aviation core? I'm thinking of some of the things we've done um with unions to domies in high school so they get credits and get out. So, both at the retention and then a sustainable realistic process to attract and retain young people into the field. First on retention, thank you for the question. uh a lot to chew on there.
▶ 3:40:26Um so when I take a look at recruitment and the retention, they're directly related. As a controller, I will tell you the the biggest thing that was burned out for me was when we were short staffed. If you're short staffed, chances are you're working six day work weeks. And you might be even be required to work some 10-hour days to cover some short over or some if you if someone calls in sick, you're underst staff or you uh you're short staffed on a swing shift, you might be held over for two hours. That's where some of the burnout is coming from, sir.
▶ 3:40:56So the remedy is what currently Secretary uh Duffy is proposing with the supercharged hiring, ensuring that the academy is full, that we we pull all the levers to get the influx of talent into those field facilities. I said this at the start of this hearing and I'll say it now. Um it's going to start and end with staffing. Our staffing needs to improve.
▶ 3:41:18Once the staffing improves, once we we make sure that we are supercharging our hiring, we are ensuring every academy seat is filled with the most qualified, best, and the brightest. Um, we're offering the incentives um through Secretary Duffy's leadership on um the 30% increase or the 30% increase in pay for our academy candidates as well as the 20% uh retention bonus. That's going to help keep people longer to train this pipeline that we're having.
▶ 3:41:48As far as making sure that we change the culture, behavior comes first, culture comes next. I believe you're seeing some behavioral changes now by the commitment that you're seeing from our acting administrator and the secretary as well as the commitment from everyone that's sitting at this table. We are here because we believe in the process. We believe in safety and we believe in making sure that our employees believe in us because we believe in them. Mr.
▶ 3:42:16McIntosh, I'm going to interrupt you just because the other thing is um they don't get compensated enough in high-cost areas. We've never caught up to this, but that's where most of the traffic is. Could you comment briefly on this? People can't afford to live in San Francisco or New York or Boston. So, I spoke about some of the recruiting efforts. One of the things that we have uh looked at is um and it is being deployed now is is incentives for hard to staff facilities and there's also some some pay differentials for some of those higher cost living. So, I know that that's being reviewed as well.
▶ 3:42:46As far as San Francisco, I think another thing we'll see from the benefit is we've just implemented um the new staffing as as an interim measure, a new staffing model that or a staffing um number with collaborative resource the collaborative resource work group. That's going to bump our numbers up as we wait for the trans the transportation research board to come back with their new staffing staffing model recommendations. So, that's going to help give us more controllers in some of these facilities and that will help with some of that burnout as well. Thank you. I yield back. Mr.
▶ 3:43:16Kylie, you're recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to to all the witnesses for your testimony today. Um, I think it's important when we have these hearings uh to focus uh certainly on the the pressing uh needs of the present as we've been doing today uh addressing the disruptions we've seen uh among uh uh in the commercial uh airline space uh as well as uh the staffing urgent staffing needs uh when it comes to the FA and air traffic controllers.
▶ 3:43:44Uh but I think it's also important to uh keep an eye on the future of transportation and indeed the FAA uh reauthorization bill uh did that with uh several measures assuring that the FAA will be well positioned uh for new and emerging uh technologies. So I wanted to briefly discuss those issues and to pick one of those uh specifically is is air taxis.
▶ 3:44:05I think that for a lot of Americans, uh, this still seems pretty futuristic, but, uh, the reality is there are a number of companies that are pretty much ready for for prime time. I think the entire sort of, uh, viability of the 2028 Olympics in LA might rest on having a good fleet of air taxis available. So, uh, and I'll direct this to whoever would like to take it. Uh, what, um, should we expect when it comes, uh, to air taxis? When will they start to be, uh, used? How prevalent will their use be? What kinds of uses do we expect to see?
▶ 3:44:35And importantly, how safe will they be? Will it be uh will the safety level be more comparable to riding in a commercial airliner or or driving a car? So, I'll go ahead and start with that. Um the officiation safety organization is responsible for the integration of advanced air mobility. Uh we see lots of different uses. We see cargo, short hall cargo. We see uh potential as you described air taxis, maybe short-term movement to and from airports um amongst urban areas.
▶ 3:45:05Those are all models that that companies seem to be coming up with. Uh the first step is a certified aircraft. We would certify to the same equivalent level of safety that we would start certify another small aircraft. So small aircraft for commercial use. That's essentially the standard we're we're certifying to. Uh we're in the middle of ongoing certification. So there are companies going through that process right now in various stages of of testing and and proving that their vehicles meet those minimum safety standards.
▶ 3:45:36Additionally, we have a regulatory set out there to transition the new pilots uh the early models of advanced air mobility will be piloted. So we are working we have this rule set that will allow for transition from currently experienced pilots into this new category of aircraft powered lift. We have this regulatory set that will also set up the operating standards around them. So for example, current rules talked about fuel standards.
▶ 3:46:01If these vehicles are electronically powered uh or electrically powered, what is the equivalent level of power reserve? So we have that reg rule set in place. Additionally, we have work across with my my fellow colleagues on what's necessary to to integrate AAM. I always like to say because they have to land somewhere. Uh we are preparing for AAM. Uh we have updated our engineering brief uh to it's called EB105A provides the standard for vertaports. It's an existing standard of design standard.
▶ 3:46:30Reauthorization also requires us to update our helport uh advisory circular and a vert advisory circular uh to provide a performance-based standard. Uh we're going to be going through testing as we get conforming aircraft coming uh to be presented for certification to uh aviation safety. We'll be uh collecting data from that to inform those advisory circular and get those set up. Any other thoughts on this? You mentioned uh Miss Baker that initially they're going to be piloted.
▶ 3:47:00So does that suggest that uh you know ultimately the vision here is is autonomy much as we're starting to see for cars? I think that that's a business model that's out there. I think that's a a good question for manufacturers. There are certainly some manufacturers that are definitely have the eye on autonomy. Um but I think we'll we'll see that eventually.
▶ 3:47:17Are we envisioning within you know let's say the medium term uh 5 to 10 years maybe a little longer uh that these uh you know air taxis will be in common use or will sort of just be for you know uh kind of specialized purposes in big cities maybe between major cities. I think the market will sort of bear that out. When I first started in DC in 2006, we were talking about very light jets and the the phrase that we had in the building was very light jets.
▶ 3:47:44We're going to darken the skies and that didn't necessarily play out. So, we are ready to enable the AAM business model and I'm eager to see where it goes. Well, I think it's a very exciting set of possibilities from this technology and others that really could revolutionize the movement of goods and and people in a way that improves all of our lives. But of course in order to uh usher that future uh into being uh it's essential that we have safety so that people trust in these these new modes of transport.
▶ 3:48:14So thank you for the work you're doing. I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Schultton. Five minutes. Thank you uh so much uh Mr. Chairman and uh Mr. Ranking member and welcome to our witnesses today. Uh public service is a high calling especially when uh the stakes are high as they are in air travel. So I I really want to thank you for your service. Uh we're nearing the end of our our grueling testimony and and hearing today.
▶ 3:48:44So so thank you so much for bearing with us. Um this is truly a unique moment in the aviation space at a time when public confidence in aviation safety is on the decline. Even as we know uh it has never been more safe uh to to travel by plane. Uh we we cannot ignore the public sentiments uh about this.
▶ 3:49:08We need the FAA to continually recommmit itself to not only keeping our skies safe, but to ensuring that the public feels that way and they understand how safe that it is. Every day, Americans are worried about their family safety on flights. As I travel back and forth between Washington, my constituents uh ask me all the time about the safety of flying.
▶ 3:49:31On top of that, uh the administration has uh ex the administration uh our president is accepting a luxury aircraft from a foreign country. On top of that, the administration has reportedly targeted FAA employees who are integral to FAA safety in the name of efficiency. This is unacceptable. I stand ready to work with my colleagues and the DOT to regain the public trust.
▶ 3:50:00This starts with the swift implementation of the 2024 FAA reauthorization. I am a strong supporter of aviation infrastructure modernization, including the replacement of an aging air traffic control tower in my district uh at the Gerald R. Ford uh international airport. I I hope my colleagues will indulge me. Uh they perhaps next to Kuz Bay uh they've heard more uh about the the Gerald Ford uh aging tower than almost anything else.
▶ 3:50:31What can I say? We're champions uh for our district. Um, however, the FAA has failed to meet uh the statutory deadline and has yet to submit uh a report to Congress on language that I championed and was passed into law through the FAA uh process last year. Mr. Mr.
▶ 3:50:52Macintosh, can you please share a status update on the FAA's obligations under section 624 of the recent reauthorization as well as describe why the FAA is delayed in submitting this report? Thank you for the question and also thank you for the affirmation that it is safe to fly.
▶ 3:51:10Um, it is I fly every single week as well and and never do I ever board an airplane ever worried that there is going to be an air traffic situation or a problem with the aircraft due to to Miss Baker's uh diligence as well as well as Mr. Hibbeck's um over overseeing the airport environment. So, thank you for that affirmation. Uh, in regards to your question, the status of 624, the air traffic controller tower replacement process. Yes, ma'am.
▶ 3:51:37We are finalizing the report and I can absolutely offer that report. Uh my team and I will be happy to offer that report and brief your office on the tower replacement project. We would be happy to do that. We're also putting it online so everyone can see it so everyone has full transparency. But again, if you if you don't want to go online, we'd be more than happy to brief you. As far as the delinquency, I wasn't aware that it was delinquent. I came in today and I do know that that we are finals and report and we're happy to say that we're going to be able to take this one off the list. Ma'am, thank you. I I appreciate it and we look forward to it.
▶ 3:52:07We we accept your invitation of of an individual briefing. Um you know I I want to I want to ask about the the presence of Doge at the agency. I know my colleagues have been asking a lot of questions about that. Um you know this agency came in and was created to boost efficiency. You know Mr. Mr. Macintosh, has the presence of Doge increased or had any type of impact, negative or positive, on the AY's efficiency or uh performance?
▶ 3:52:37So, I was asked this question earlier. I haven't witnessed Doge in the FAA. I haven't seen them. I haven't corresponded with them in regards to officials. Is it your is it your testimony that they don't have any presence at the FAA? My testimony is that I haven't seen them. I haven't interacted with them. So you don't you don't know if Doge has had any impact. You have not seen Doge having any impact enhancing efficiency or or decreasing efficiency? No ma'am I haven't.
▶ 3:53:04I have visited air traffic controllers and facilities and my interactions with them have strictly been and their feedback to me is been uh they were looking for infrastructure improvements as well as improvements to staffing. Those are the things that come to me. Those other items that you discussed has not come up in our conversation. And have you seen those come to fruition then as far staffing changes and the and and the improvements?
▶ 3:53:29And so I have not seen the infrastructure improvements yet, but we are very hopeful um through bipartisan uh legislation that we will see that because controllers are quite honestly and I said this in hearing yesterday. Um we talk about being the gold standard. Uh, I just want to make sure that we remain there by investing in our infrastructure and investing in the controllers and the technicians that use them every day and then the flying public will benefit from those safety measures as well.
▶ 3:53:56We're excited about Thank you, Mr. Macintosh. Yield back. Thank you to the panel. We may have a couple members left. We Okay, continue. Yeah. All right. I now recognize Mr. Taylor. Five minutes. Thank you chairman uh ranking member for having the holding this hearing today. I also want to thank the witnesses for being here for your time and expertise and the sacrifices you all made to be here. We appreciate you very much.
▶ 3:54:23With domestic international aviation travel rising in the United States, it's imperative that the FAA does everything in its power to keep our skies safe. I'm excited to work with members of this committee and the FAA to imple implement the best policies and procedures to keep our constituents safe while flying while ensuring ease at the airport. In my district, I represent one of the fastest growing airports in the state. That's the Claremont County Airport.
▶ 3:54:47As uh southern Ohio continues to attract new businesses and families uh to Claremont County, uh airport traffic has grown each year, hosting more than 36,000 takeoffs and landings 2024. As a Claremont County airport attracts more visitors and travelers, it's vital to ensure the safety of those traveling through southern Ohio. Mr.
▶ 3:55:06Hibbeck, what if any special steps does the FA FAA take with smaller airports that are growing quickly to ensure that they have the infrastructure, technology, and resources to safeguard passenger safety? Uh yes.
▶ 3:55:21Um well I would say that on under our airport improvement program um in our discretionary funding program when you when you say with respect to safety that has some of the highest priority ratings that we give um and and it's a very structured process for example I always say if you are at the center of the runway you move out you can expect the priority to go down so as you get to terminals it's lower so with respect to any airport regardless of its size if it's competing for discretionary funding for us the higher priority safety projects
▶ 3:55:51regardless of size will score better than um the lower priority like as you move out from the runway to the to the lower priority projects. Okay, thank you. Air airports across the country rely on uh the airport improvement program to help improve safety and efficiency. Funding from this program allows airports to build new runways, ramps, taxiways, and make needed repairs on existing infrastructure.
▶ 3:56:15However, many of the airports in my district fall into the non-primary entitlement and can only uh receive up to $150,000, far less than larger airports. Even though these more rural, smaller airports have less air traffic and require less money, the AIP funds can be vital for many small towns. Mr. Hibbeck, from your experience, can you just talk more about how important AIP funds are to helping small airports and what we can do uh in Congress to maybe improve this program?
▶ 3:56:43Uh yes, and I uh I believe you've taken an important first step in that in some of the formula changes you've made in the reauthorization act. The state aortionment funding uh has had a significant shift upwards and that's used by states to reach the smaller airports. Um and so that's that's a great step there. Um and uh just again on the safety side uh that that will always rank higher uh than than other projects regardless of airport size uh when it comes to the discretionary pool.
▶ 3:57:14you. Uh quick one. We whoever wants to take this one can can take and maybe we can get a couple people's input on it. Um no one should be afraid of flying in the United States. Uh see the tragedy that occurred occurred at the DC airport in January is uh heartbreaking and my heart goes out to the friends and families and loved ones who lost someone in that terrible crash.
▶ 3:57:36Um, what actions has the FAA taken following American Eagle Flight 54 5342 to ensure tragedies like that never occur again? I I'll take that and thank you for the question and uh again it is safe to fly. We took immediate action after that act after the accident occurred. Uh Senator I'm sorry um Secretary Duffy met with acting administrator Roshel and we implemented changes right away.
▶ 3:58:01Uh we put in a uh a corridor that prohibited mixeduse traffic, meaning helicopters could not interact with with uh with fixed wing aircraft. Uh we also made sure that ADSB um out was that mandate was adhered to um and we updated our orders to reflect that. We also restricted the use of visual separation um within uh within the immediate vicinity of DCA. Uh, we increased our controller staffing at DCA um as well as our supervisor presence.
▶ 3:58:32And I think to get to where your question is, Mr. Taylor, we took those lessons learned on helicopters and mixed traffic with um commercial traffic and we applied those to other cities that had very similar helicopter route patterns. And those lessons learned, we went out to those 10 cities and we started looking at commonalities. Was there safety drift there as well?
▶ 3:58:52Uh if you had a helicopter or charted helicopter route and it was close proximity to an airport like Las Vegas, we implemented vertical and lateral confines, making sure helicopters stayed within points and we had separation or safe separation between arriving and departing aircraft. Uh we are working with our labor partners to make sure training is robust and that that we learn from an incident like this to make sure that the NAS safety margins even improve from where they are now. Thank you, sir. And thank you to all of you. And chairman, I yield back. Thank you, Miss Hoy. You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 3:59:23Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, as a member with one of the longest commutes in the contiguous United States and no direct flights, I spend a lot of time on planes and talking to pilots and talking to air traffic controllers and talking to the people that support the support staff that help our air traffic controllers do their jobs. And right now they feel they're under incredible stress because a number of them got fired.
▶ 3:59:51I do appreciate and I told Secretary Duffy I appreciated him standing up to Mr. Musk saying you can't fire the air traffic controllers. However, a number of them took the the deferred retirement. A number of them are being recruited by other countries where they feel they're going to be valued. and the support staff that support the air traffic controllers in doing their jobs, in fixing the equipment and whatnot did get fired.
▶ 4:00:21So then all of a sudden they were called back to work on social media. That is not how we should treat employees. If you don't treat your employees well, why would they want to work here? They have other options. So fundamentally, you don't rebuild trust by treating people like they're disposable.
▶ 4:00:42Now, when I talked to Secretary Duffy, he I said, "What's your top priority?" And he said, "Fixing the air traffic control system." And I said, "I will work with you and anybody here on making sure that happens. It's important that we have safe air traffic control and and um people feel safe flying." But I did say with the caveat that I do not believe that this should be privatized. This is a government function.
▶ 4:01:11We do not outsource our safety and national security to a private entity. So um fundamentally we do need to commit to real investments and I did hear one of my colleagues talking about recruiting, training and retaining staff. It is not DEI, right?
▶ 4:01:30It is not woke to say that we should treat people well who show up to do their job and are highly qualified regardless of where they come from, their gender, what race they are, and that's critical that they feel valued. Now, what I'll say is that, you know, we have a crisis and we've talked about air traffic control towers in Oregon.
▶ 4:01:54We have the Hillsboro tower that's so old that they can't even put in a tower simulation system because there's literally nowhere to put it. The FAA reauthorization says every tower should have one by 2028, but that promise doesn't mean the facilities can handle the equipment. So, basic gear like headsets to talk to pilots, those are failing. Backups, you know, barely work.
▶ 4:02:19We've got controllers working six days a week, 10-hour shifts, and we're short 3,600 certified controllers. So, my question is, I think lots of people have asked about, you know, how are we going to get our air traffic controller, air traffic control towers up to speed, but secondly, what specifically are you doing to make sure that the people that are coming to work at the FAA feel like they're valued and that their job is going to be there tomorrow?
▶ 4:02:51Thank you for the opportunity to let me respond. Every day I have conversations with my team and they know exactly how valuable they are. I'm a career employee. I've got 25 years in the FAA and I've got four years in the military. They know how much they're valued. In my conversations with Secretary Duffy and acting administrator Roshelo, they tell me the very same thing.
▶ 4:03:16Everything that we've talked about has been the significance and the importance of individuals coming in and doing their jobs in in keeping the skies safe. Controllers and technicians were never part of the deferred DRP. They're exempt. They were not fired. They were not part They were they were not part of that conversation.
▶ 4:03:41When we talk with our teams, they understand their significance ensuring that they support the air traffic organization and being successful of their mission of keeping people safe. We don't have a job. We have a profession. It's a profession we take very seriously and it's a profession that we all take great pride in delivering to the United States and the people that fly the skies. I I will in just the time I have left.
▶ 4:04:10Although those two positions were not uh were exempt from the deferred resignation, there were resignations. There are there are air traffic controllers that are being recruited by other countries where they feel like it will be less stressful. It will they will be more valued. They will have what they need.
▶ 4:04:29and the support staff who support the mechanics and the air traffic controllers, they were um let go or push to leave because again, I don't know how we replace them, but it is I want to support you in doing your job in keeping your employees and I want to support Secretary Duffy doing his job provided we understand that this is a critical government function and we can't have 20-year-olds come in and just break it all apart.
▶ 4:04:59hard because that puts all of us in danger. So again, thank you for your work today. Lady, gentle lady yields back. I will yield to myself. Um first of all, you know, I have prepared remarks. I'm going to use a few of them. They were thoughtful and methodical, etc. But um I got to do my thing here, and I I want to start out by thanking the FAA, uh for the work that is done.
▶ 4:05:28Uh there's a lot of good people who work very hard, give it their best, and do their job. I have 1,600 of them at the tech center in in my district alone, but there there are a lot more than that throughout the country. I want to thank Secretary Duffy. Nobody maybe I I didn't hear it because I've been in and out, but uh for the work that he's doing, man, talk about a tough job.
▶ 4:05:50guy comes in first 100 days and all this is thrown on his lap and he's dealing with it and he's focused and he's fired up and the acting administrator as well. They're doing a job. I want to talk about this is a tough tough week for New Jersey to be honest with you. It's been a little tough few weeks for New Jersey between what happened in Newark at the detention center at the Delaney Center which I'm chairing my own committee meeting on that. We're not going to bring that up here and then Newark airport.
▶ 4:06:19It proves a point and it's not the employees, but it proves a point. We transferred air control from New York City to Philadelphia and this was under the Biden Buddhaj administration. Let's be clear that we did this.
▶ 4:06:39We did that knowing that we had corroded copper wire, that we didn't have a star system in Philadelphia, that we were short of air traffic controllers there, that the main runway in Newark was being worked on, the main runway of two main runways there and redone. We did that again in the past administration when there was bad technology all around.
▶ 4:07:03You know, I had the uh opportunity a couple times at the Atlantic City International Airport to actually look at their air traffic controllers, and these folks in the last administration, they're using floppy discs. They couldn't even get them at the regular the way that supplies are normally gotten. They got to go to like discount stores somewhere for people that have aged technology that nobody's using anymore. That's not your fault. I'm not blaming you for that.
▶ 4:07:34And what were we worried about? I'm sorry. I'm going to be the one to say it. We worried about in the last administration, man, I didn't hear a lot of talk about improving infrastructure, about America being number one in the world as far as infrastructure. You know what I heard about? I heard about and yeah, there was DEI. I heard about what pronouns do we use? I heard we had to change the name of the cockpit.
▶ 4:07:57I heard that we had to be concerned about bathrooms and and how we dealt with them and what was a men's room, a woman's room, transgender, whatever it was. I heard we were discussing tree equity. I don't even know what tree equity is, but we were discussing it. We're discussing racist roads and bridges. I'm talking about infrastructure in general, but it applies here.
▶ 4:08:18What we should be worried about, what you all are worried about is national security, public safety, and a making America number one in the air again. That's the real world. That's what we were dealing with in the last four years. That's what Secretary Duffy and the administrator have to clean up now with all of you have to do, what all our good employees have to do. Damn it, we should stay focused on what the real issues are.
▶ 4:08:47That's the job of the FAA. It isn't all this other and yes, it was woke crap that doesn't belong there. And I don't mean to be crude, but I'm telling the truth. So, with that being said, Mr. McIntosh, and by Thank you guys. I Man, you've been there a long time. You got to be tired. You really do. I hope they're feeding you coffee at least. Why was And you're staying awake.
▶ 4:09:12Why was air traffic shifted from New York to Philadelphia when their systems were and still are in such disrepair? And I know we've already gotten some fiber in. We've done some other stuff. We're going to get the star system, etc. But why was that shift really did that have to be made? We we did have to make that that shift, sir. And and again, I I also want to say one thing because I don't want to do a disservice to the controllers at N90 or the ones who are currently at Philadelphia C. They do phenomenal job. I agree.
▶ 4:09:42Every single day they work the most congested airspace under under some high stress situations. They're Our concern with Philadelphia or with with the Newark Treycon and N90 was we had some some real recruiting issues for that facility. Trying to find highly qualified controllers to go and certify was a problem for us. We were largely dependent upon the academy to give us students to work that most congested and most complex airspace in the world.
▶ 4:10:10And we were only seeing a success rate between 20 and 25% for these academy graduates. Me I don't want to send someone who's straight off the street to go to the most complicated airspace to try to learn air traffic. It it's not a a formula for success. We took a long at at where the current staffing was at N90 and where it was 10 years before and it was going the wrong direction despite a decade of incentives. A change was needed to change the trajectory of what that facility was going to look like.
▶ 4:10:40And what I mean by that is we wanted to make sure the staffing was going to get better by moving the airspace. We had a lot of people who were not interested in going to N90 interested in going into the new Philadelphia area C. As a matter of fact, all of our classes that we have scheduled or this pipeline I'm speaking to is filled between now and the middle of 2026 with experienced controllers to go learn this airspace. And they're excited to go do that.
▶ 4:11:06That's the reason why we moved the airspace was to make sure that we actually had future growth and a pipeline for this new area. As far as the infrastructure and what you're seeing at at Philadelphia Area C right now, I think this speaks to the current condition of our infrastructure. You're seeing it take its its its progression and now it's starting to show cracks.
▶ 4:11:28We are starting to see our redundant systems that were always reliable before starting to fail and we need to start putting in some of the new infrastructure requests that that Secretary Duffy is speaking to as far as the new fiber lines as far as um a dedicated stars line to Philadelphia area C ensuring that the frequencies work and that that um the controllers there have the best equipment available.
▶ 4:11:53So I I do believe we take a look at the current infrastructure and where it's cracking and we improve it to where it is now. But to answer your question, yes, I I do believe that airspace move was required. I received a very tough question which was would you knowing what you know now, would you have moved the airspace back last summer? And my answer was yes.
▶ 4:12:14And the reason why it was yes was because sometimes the right decision is hard but you have to stand by those hard decisions knowing that it was the right call. I thank you Mr. McKintosh and I got to tell you we are now in this administration going to focus money towards recruitment towards incentivizing people to come in towards infrastructure and doing the job that needs to be done.
▶ 4:12:42With that, I will yield to Miss Titus, the gentle lady from Nevada. Thank you very much. Uh, with all due respect to my colleagues comments blaming the last administration for the problems at airports. Uh, I just would remind him that he was here when we passed the FAA reauthorization bill. He voted for it. I don't recall a lot of amendments that he might have introduced that dealt with some of the problems.
▶ 4:13:11He's now criticizing the last administration for that would have been welcome. I'll give you an extra few seconds. I talked about it over and over and over again. Continue. Yeah. Reclaiming my time. Um, also I hope that the Doge people will let you spend that additional money on infrastructure. I don't see any evidence of that. Mostly it's been cutting things with infrastructure, but okay. I'll take you at your word that we're going to make these great investments. Now, I would ask you, Mr. Mcccleintoch.
▶ 4:13:39Uh, one of the things I had in the FAA reauthorization bill was to call on the nationalmy's transportation research board to look at the way we analyze the need for air traffic controllers. They were to do a report that maybe we rethink the formula. Uh, that was to be due in December. We haven't seen that. Can you tell us what the holdup is or when we might be able to have that as a guide for how we move down the path to getting more uh air traffic controllers? Yes, ma'am. You are correct.
▶ 4:14:10Um we did uh as as reauthorization required us to do is we contracted the transportation research board to analyze our staffing model and also analyze it against the new collabor group that was a collabor product between the agency and NACA. Um we are awaiting for them to finalize that report. When that report is finalized then the FA will take those recommendations and develop a new um staffing model.
▶ 4:14:37We expect the TRB report to be out this summer. But as an interim um gap what we have implemented was the new CRWG numbers um to uh ensure that we actually put more controllers in those positions. So that's the stop gap measure which was required by reauthorization as well was the implementation of the CRWG as we wait for the recommendations from the TRB.
▶ 4:15:02Is there any way we can make corrections if those recommendations come out different from what you're using as a stop gap? My understanding is is from from the TRB recommendations the FAA will take those recommendations and make that to be a new staffing model. Okay. Thank you. Well, I think that would be helpful is if we're going to make all these improvements, invest all this money, let's do it the right way. So down the road, 10 years from now, we won't be back in the same difficulty that we're in now behind the eightball.
▶ 4:15:31Uh Miss Baker, I'd like to ask you about your faith in the National Transportation Safety Board. Uh you know, we this was created in 1967 as an independent body. It's investigated more than 153,000 accidents, issued more than 15, and 500 safety recommendations. Now, we have the news that Alvin Brown, the vice chair, has been dismissed. He was sworn in in April 2024.
▶ 4:16:01He's supposed to run his term through 2026. This isn't the first time a member's been removed. I'm sorry, this is the first time a member's been removed. We see it happening at the FTC. We see it happening at the National Labor Relations Board. These independent agencies seem to no longer be independent. Do you have faith that they can investigate all these accidents that are occurring thoroughly and independently?
▶ 4:16:26The NTSB has many, many career investigators, just like the FAA has many, many career employees. I have no reason not to have faith in the NTSB. Well, could you just put on the record how important it is for this agency to remain independent and not uh be politicized or weaponized by the current I believe that the NTSB is is has its own legislation and it's going to follow it. It it should follow its own legislation as well.
▶ 4:16:55Well, if legislation was it it weren't to be dismissed and that's not happening. So, I don't think you can count that as a I understand your concern. Okay. Thank you. I'll yield back. Gentle lady yields back. Are there any further questions from members of the committee who have not been recognized? Seeing none, that concludes our hearing for today.
▶ 4:17:21I would like to thank each of the witnesses for your testimony and for just holding out for a very, very long hearing. We appreciate you. And the committee stands adjourned.