▶ 0:14:59The committee will please come to order. A quorum is present. The committee meets today pursuant to notice. Without objection, the chair may recess the committee at any point. But before we move any further, I'd like to give a warm welcome to Representative Yasiman Ansari. I hope I've pronounced that accurately. I will learn. I will learn. Welcome to the committee. Ranking member Scott.
▶ 0:15:28You're recognized to welcome Representative Ansari at this time. Let me check the pronunciation. Anseri. Close. Ansari. Andsari. Okay. Thank you. We welcome her to the committee. She's replacing Mr. Grahalva. uh she has brings a fresh and diverse perspective to our work.
▶ 0:15:50Her leadership as vice mayor of Phoenix and freshman class president in this Congress be a tremendous asset for this committee and look forward to working with her and welcoming to the committee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 0:16:08Uh without uh Representative Ansari will be added to the subcommittee on higher education and workforce development and the subcommittee on early childhood, elementary, and secondary education. I'd like to recognize Representative Ansari for one minute to make a brief statement as you embark on this fabulous committee. Thank you so much, Chair Wahlberg and Ranking Member Scott.
▶ 0:16:35It's an honor to be appointed to this this committee, especially as a freshman member. I know I have very huge shoes to fill. Congressman Raul Grahalva was a titan in the fight for strong public schools and labor protections. Our home state of Arizona has been ranked as one of the worst schools for public education for years. That is a direct result of extreme cuts to public education funding, resulting in some of the lowest teacher pay in the entire United States.
▶ 0:17:02We are also a right to work state where the legislature has continuously gone after workers rights and preempted cities from establishing heat safety rules in the hottest state in the country. I'm so grateful that Arizona will continue to have representation on this committee and I'm really proud to fill that role. I look forward to working with each of you to make our public schools stronger and our workplaces safer. Thank you. Thank you.
▶ 0:17:28And again, welcome to this Now we'll turn to the oversight hearing portion of today's meeting. Good morning. It's a pleasure to welcome Secretary Linda McMahon. For the first time to the Committee on Education and Workforce, we don't want to be your last necessarily. Uh Madam Secretary, thank you for being here.
▶ 0:17:50Since you were sworn in on March 3rd, you've made it your mission to address the glaring problems you inherited from your predecessor and begin to process the process of rightsizing the Department of Education so we can return education to the states. I want to address each of these core parts of your mission in turn. First, a glaring problem at the K12 level.
▶ 0:18:15Less than onethird of the eighth graders in America can read or do math at grade level. To put that into perspective, if the nation's report card were an actual report card, a 100% improvement on the next iteration of the test would still leave us with a failing Unfortunately, too many in our education system are more invested in protecting their monopoly power over kids' futures or indoctrinating students into left-wing ideology than teaching them
▶ 0:18:46basic skills, developing their critical thinking, and expanding their educational choices. At the post-secondary level, your predecessor used billions of taxpayer funds to pursue illegal student loan schemes meant to shift responsibility for student loan debt from the individuals who took it on uh to taxpayers who paid off their debt or never went to college in the first place.
▶ 0:19:11In add in the in addition, the Biden Harris administration ignored the congressional mandate for student loan repayments to resume, breaking the student loan system and creating chaos for borrowers. All the while, Democrats have been happy to let the post-secary education industry continue bilking students, their families, and taxpayers while in many cases delivering a product that leaves students worse off than if they had never attended college at all.
▶ 0:19:41At all levels of education, your predecessor weaponized the Office for Civil Rights to inflict dangerous and radical ideologies on students and their families while simultaneously taking a hands-off approach to the exploding crisis of anti-semitism in our nation's schools and colleges.
▶ 0:20:00I have been heartened to see your aggressive actions to protect the dignity, the safety, and academic and athletic opportunities of women and girls from a radical gender ideology that ignores basic biology. I've also been heartened by your desire to bring to light discriminatory DEI practices in our schools that dehumanize people.
▶ 0:20:24And I've been especially happy to see your department's response to the indifference to many education leaders uh continue to show in the face of ongoing threats to Jewish students. Second, I applaud you for embracing a final mission for the Department of Education.
▶ 0:20:43I imagine we'll have a vigorous debate about this today because the Republican Democrat parties have competing visions of education in this country and that's how it is. There's an implication in the criticism leveled at you, Madam Secretary, that the status quo is fine. Really, the implication is that the status quo is more than fine.
▶ 0:21:07The minority wants us to believe that the Department of Education is overseeing an education system in which students are thriving and employers have access to a workforce prepared to succeed. Neither of these are true. As I mentioned earlier, our K12 education performance is abysmal. At the post-secary level, the national six-year graduation rate is just over 60%. In other words, our colleges and universities would get an F on their primary responsibility.
▶ 0:21:38And the college forall mentality driven by the previous administration's student loan schemes has only made the problem worse. Our education system has failed to prepare a workforce with the skills employers need. Again, this is what Democrats are defending. Republicans believe there's a better way.
▶ 0:22:02We believe in reducing bureaucracy, trusting our educators, trusting our state and local leaders, and trusting the innovators who are pushing against the barriers thrown up by the bureaucracy. And above all, we trust our parents. This is our vision. And thankfully, we finally have an administration in place that shares this vision. The Trump administration is eliminating bureaucracy where it isn't needed.
▶ 0:22:28It is also implementing federal guard rails when needed, like enforcing title nine to protect the rights of women and girls, protecting access to education for students with disabilities, holding colleges and universities accountable for tolerating mass harassment of Jewish students, or preventing efforts to exclude parents from their children's education.
▶ 0:22:51In these ways, the Trump administration is streamlining bureaucracy so that the federal government can better deliver on the responsibilities it has. Madam Secretary, again, thank you for being here. I look forward to hearing more about your plans to continue cleaning up the mess you inherited and your vision for an education system that puts students, not bureaucrats, first.
▶ 0:23:17I will now yield to uh the ranking member uh Representative Scott for his opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning. I want to thank Secretary McMahon for joining us today to discuss the department's priorities and the effect this budget will have on students, teachers, and families. Secretary Ma McMahon, uh as Secretary of Education, you took an oath to oversee the Department of Education and uphold the Constitution.
▶ 0:23:46One of the missions of the Department of Education is to quote strengthen the federal commitment to ensuring access to equal educational opportunities for individual. I take no pleasure in pointing out that in the months since this administration has taken office, you have been sworn in as a department secretary. The actions taken by you, the unaccount, the unaccountable Doge and this administration generally have contradicted this mission. Some of the things that have happened.
▶ 0:24:16Nearly 50% of the department's workforce have been proposed to be fired, eliminating key roles that keep our nation's schools running and our students safe. Universities have been stripped of necessary grant funding, undermining the integrity of higher education. Support for student loan borrows has been reduced and the key consumer protections have been threatened. and the Department of Education is being dismantled through the elimination of programs and offices without congressional approval.
▶ 0:24:47Thankfully, on May 22, a federal judge issued a preliminary injunction and ordered the department to reinstate the previously terminated employees. During today's hearing hearing, I expect you to share with us specifically what steps you are taking to comply with that court order.
▶ 0:25:05Relatedly, we understand the department has repeatedly delayed and denied the department's Office of Inspector General access to requested documents, information, and staff to conduct a review related to the department's uh recent workforce program, and operational changes. Uh yesterday, I sent you a letter urging you to cooperate with the OIG in accordance with the law.
▶ 0:25:29And it's my hope that because you have spoken to numerous news organizations about your plans to dismantle the department, you will feel comfortable with sharing your plans with Congress and the OIG. For millions of Americans who are we are struggling to understand how the actions you have taken at the department to address learning gaps and improve academic outcomes for the nation's children.
▶ 0:25:52Simply put, if all of these positions are being vacated and resources are being cut for the sake of efficiency, then who is doing the work to ensure that the mission of the department to strengthen the federal commitment to ensuring access to equal educational opportunity for every individual is being met.
▶ 0:26:12For example, another mission of the department is to promote improvements in the quality and usefulness of education through federally supported research, evaluation, and sharing of information. Yet, this administration has stopped the Institute of Educational Sciences from funding and it organization supports research and collects data on education across the country to improve students academic outcome.
▶ 0:26:40Congress uses this research to determine how it can save money and ensure resources are allocated only to effective programs. However, since you have halted research in the middle of their project pro in the middle of their projects, much of their work is now useless to Congress and that is the very definition of creating waste.
▶ 0:27:02Also, the department has abdicated its responsibility to ensure that all students are afforded safe, quality, and equitable education regardless of their race, gender, immigration status, socioeconomic status, and disability status. Under your stewardship, the Office of Civil Rights is implementing a radical reinterpretation of our civil rights laws that abandons its long-standing duties to investigate, monitor, and provide resources to victims of potential civil rights violations.
▶ 0:27:32As a result, students and parents with open civil rights cases are now left with no recourse and no insight as to the status of their cases. We've seen valuable programs such as teacher quality partnership supporting effective educator development and mental health grants which have supported through the bipartisan safer communities act canled with no notice to states and no recourse to help support our nation's public schools.
▶ 0:28:00Furthermore, states are being denied reimbursement for COVID 19 related expenditures that the Department of Education has promised had promised to pay. as this is in addition to the proposals the department's fiscal year 2026 budget to eliminate programs like Gear Up and TRIO which provide support for low-income students and students with disabilities to obtain high school diplomas and prepare them for post-secary education.
▶ 0:28:28There's also the matter of many red states calling for education block grants, a regressive and illegal proposal that would make it virtually impossible for the federal government to hold states accountable for providing all students with a highquality education free from discrimination. And yet the department's budget proposal request requests that Congress grant you the legal authority to block grant several programs a clear acknowledgement that you currently lack this authority.
▶ 0:28:58So we expect to hear from you today that you will deny the state's request to block grant without direct congressional authority and more importantly we want to hear expressly how you will hold states accountable for upholding students civil rights.
▶ 0:29:14I'd be remiss if I did not note that the fiscal that the department's fiscal year year 2026 budget proposal would make it more difficult for students to enroll in and afford a college education by re by proposing reductions in funding to need-based grants such as PEL and work study.
▶ 0:29:34This is achieved by removing staff who oversee federal student aid administration and oversight, forcing borrowers into unaffordable repayment plans and aggressively garnishing wages of lowincome borrowers. Additionally, the budget proposes reducing the department's workforce development programs by 33%.
▶ 0:29:55In some between the cuts to higher education and programs for alternative career paths, this budget proposal would leave this country's workforce behind rather than competing in the global economy. At the end of the day, it is the students of this nation who will suffer under this budget proposal. students from low-income families and students with disabilities, English learners, international students, and students of color will face more hurdles.
▶ 0:30:22Accessing equal educational opportunity and eliminating um eliminating those burdens is the very mission of the Department of Education. So regrettably, instead of investing in our children, your budget proposal would eviscerate vi vital evidence-based educational programs in the office of the offices of the department as a means of attack of programs as a means to attack programs promoting diversity, equity, inclusion, and
▶ 0:30:52accessibility. So, your success in this job will come only if you adhere to the mission of the Department of Education, faithfully execute the laws, and uphold your oath to the Constitution. Regrettably, this proposed budget does not signal a path of success for America's students and families. That's why I'm urging you to reverse course and call on my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to critically review this proposal and reject it.
▶ 0:31:20Democrats will not sit idly by while students are under attack. We will fight any and all attempts to dismantle the department and we will continue to stand up for students, parents, and families who are struggling. So, Madam Secretary, thank you for appearing today. We hope to get concrete and substantive answers from you. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 0:31:43Uh, pursuant to committee rule 8C, all members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m. 14 days after this hearing. And without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record.
▶ 0:32:13I'll now turn to the introduction of today's witness, the Honorable Linda McMahon, Secretary of the US Department of Education. Madam Secretary, we thank you for being here today. As you are aware, it's your responsibility to provide accurate information to the committee. Pursuant to committee rule, I would ask that you submit your oral presentation uh to a five-minute summary of your written statement. Madame Secretary, you are recognized for your testimony.
▶ 0:32:45Make sure that microphone is on there. That helps for you to hear me, right? Good morning, Chairman Wahberg, Ranking Scott, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for having me today to represent the goal I share with my boss, President Trump, to responsibly eliminate federal bureaucracy, cut waste, and give education back to states, parents, and educators.
▶ 0:33:13With your partnership, the fiscical year 26 budget will take a significant step toward that goal. We seek to shrink federal bureaucracy, save taxpayer money, and empower states who best know their local needs to manage their education in this country. We have reviewed our programs and identified spending that does not fulfill the mandate of trust the American people have placed in President Trump.
▶ 0:33:39We have cut old contracts that were enriching private parties at taxpayer expense, suspended grants for illegal DEI programs, and now are putting forward a responsible budget request that reduces the department funding by more than 15%. At the same time, we're working to make American education great again. In our conversation with governors, teachers, and parents across the country, we hear calls for accountability and more local control.
▶ 0:34:10That's our goal. To give parents access to the quality education their kids deserve, to fix the broken higher education industry that has misled students into degrees that don't pay off, and to create safe learning environments. We're holding institutions to account when they facilitate discriminatory or hostile environments on campus. A level playing field with limitless opportunity, I think, is a vision that we all can share.
▶ 0:34:40Our budget reflects this vision. It cuts reflect the bureaucracy that is getting out of the way, and its continuations and increases represent smart spending that will help improve student achievement, not serve bureaucratic interests. Our goal is clear. Make education better, fairer, and more accountable by ending federal overreach and empowering families, schools, and states who best know the needs of their students.
▶ 0:35:10I'm eager to partner with you to make this vision of the future a reality and ensure that every child is part of it. Thank you, and I look forward to your Thank you, Madam Secretary. Under committee rule nine, we will now question Secretary McMahon under the five-minute rule. And I'll recognize myself for five minutes.
▶ 0:35:39Last month, Madam Secretary, the House passed HR1, the one big beautiful bill act, which will permanently extend President Trump's tax cuts, provide relief for hardworking families, and jumpstart our economy. Importantly, as a result of the hard work of this committee, the bill also represents the largest reform uh to how we fund higher education in decades.
▶ 0:36:05With this bill now on in the Senate, what does the administration see as the three most important higher education policies included in this legislation? Well, I think one of the things that we really need to look at under HR1 is um I don't think it's, you know, out of the question that we should expect our colleges and and universities to have a little skin in
▶ 0:36:35the game relative to the loans that are made. Um when these colleges and universities set their fees of attendance, etc., and loans are gotten relative to that, those students who are applying for those loans are expecting to get a return on that investment and those parents who are backing that.
▶ 0:36:54Now, if the degrees that these students get or if they drop out of school or if the performance is performance isn't ex as expected, then these loans remain unpaid and they become the burden of all of taxpayers. It's not that the loans are forgiven or they go away. They're just shouldered by others. And I believe that if colleges and universities have a little skin in the game and they have to repay part of that loan, they'll take a look at what their costs are. As we are is looking at education across the board.
▶ 0:37:23I think we also ought to look at our simplification of the student loan and repayment program system to discourage institutions from raising tuition costs just because they know the federal government will make the loan. That's and that's uh I think a little bit as to what I said in the first part of having some skin in the game. And then we need some bold reforms like workforce PEL that will allow students to access PEL grants to pursue highquality short-term training.
▶ 0:37:54As you mentioned, I think you're in your opening remarks, Mr. Chairman, we talked about our workforce shortage. We have 8 million uh openings and we are not training our skilled workforce to fulfill these openings. key points of our bill. Um, Secretary McMahon, since the hus attack on Israel on October 7th, anti-semitism has raised its horrific head all across this country and especially on many of our prestigious college campuses and others.
▶ 0:38:25Uh, they continue uh sadly to this very day. Uh the past administration had a lot of resolutions uh put forward but uh toothless efforts uh to inhibit those type of things taking place under the guise of first amendment uh liberties uh and free speech which which they weren't. Thankfully your approach has been completely different since you took office.
▶ 0:38:50Can you talk about your department's strategy for holding colleges accountable for their unwillingness to tackle anti-semitism on their campuses? One of uh President Trump's campaign promises was that he was not going to tolerate anti-semitism uh attacks on college campuses and universities and he's clearly fulfilling that promise. We first took a look at Columbia University because uh they've been covered very thoroughly by the media.
▶ 0:39:18I mean, when you see students barricaded in a library or and and other students on the outside pounding on glass walls, yelling, "Death to Israel, death to USA." Um, we know that that's not a safe environment for students. When I've spoken to Jewish students who have attended some of our elite universities that do allow these anti-semitic attacks, I've been told that they are afraid and we uh we can't allow students on campuses.
▶ 0:39:47So we've uh we've held back funding uh from Colombia. We've also done the same thing with Harvard. But these are title six violations. These are not uh first amendment violations. We have gone after this under title six. We've withheld funding and we are asking as Colombia has done to come to the table for negotiations. We've also asked Harvard. Their answer was a lawsuit.
▶ 0:40:11Uh so we are uh we are approaching and investigating probably about 60 other universities for civil rights violations. Thank you. In a few seconds remaining, what excites you most about returning education power and authority to the states? I believe that the best education is that closest to the child as does the president. Those on the ground working with children every day. Uh governors, superintendent, teachers, those are the ones who can make the best decisions for education uh for our children.
▶ 0:40:41Thank you. I yield back. I now recognize the gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtourtney. Great. Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman. Um, Secretary McMahon, and in your opening remarks, um, you focused, uh, on the need for giving, uh, parents and families um, the choice in terms of um, their children's uh, education.
▶ 0:41:01And sure enough, in your skinny budget, um the um line item for uh um charter schools was plused up, uh which I guess is consistent with those remarks. However, you zeroed out magnet schools um in the u skinny budget. We both come from Connecticut. Um US News and World Report uh did their annual ranking of high schools in the state of Connecticut. The number one uh high school in the state of Connecticut is a magnet school in East Harford. The Connecticut IB Academy.
▶ 0:41:31The number three uh high school in terms of quality in the state of Connecticut is the uh marine science magnet school in Graten, Connecticut, which I have the honor of representing. Uh there is not a charter school in the top 50. And again, this is not um my question is not really about whether charter schools perform or don't perform, but what your budget does is it undercuts parental choice because magnet schools are choicedriven programs.
▶ 0:41:58I can say that personally because my daughter uh attended a magnet school um and you know it was an excellent uh education experience. you zeroed out that account, which is completely undercuts and contradicts the hype in your in your opening statement about uh supporting parental choice. I mean, how why why wouldn't you support magnet schools?
▶ 0:42:22I do support magnet schools and uh as we both know in Connecticut, I'll speak to magnet schools, but also in Connecticut, there has been the lowest growth in charter schools. I think we're like fifth from the bottom in the country for allowing more charter school growth. So why zero out magnets? Magnet schools are also as are charter schools. They are public schools. So in the public schools funding uh then I think that as the states have more control over their state budgets.
▶ 0:42:50They can allocate those dollars to magnet schools. I think magnet schools are great and I know that a lot of them do focus on particular kinds of Thank you. I just reclaim my talk is cheap. budgets are what count and and this budget does not say that magnet schools are great. I have another question I want to just skinny budget and that was an operating plan. We now have the full budget. So we might take another look at that. Yeah, it's a zero.
▶ 0:43:12You may still be you may anyway just I want to move on to I want to move on to the Perkins uh program which um again is very important in the state of Connecticut. I was at a graduation ceremony on Wednesday uh in Graten where 170 high schoolers were given uh job offers by Electric Boat Shipyard because of Perkins grants funded programs both in tech schools and comprehensive high schools in welding metal trades.
▶ 0:43:36Um the um hype again from this administration is that they're going to support trades uh schools, but looking at your budget again, it's a zero increase um in the Perkins line item um which I guess is could have been worse.
▶ 0:43:50you could have cut it um in terms of uh the program, but in terms of meeting the moment of job openings, which you mentioned in your opening remarks, and certainly there it's we have huge job openings um in southeastern Connecticut, uh this budget does not uh match the rhetoric in terms of trade schools uh or the trades.
▶ 0:44:08What I want to ask you is that, you know, we're trying to figure out in terms of just the interaction between job training programs at the Department of Labor and Perkins Grant Program and can you tell me again whether or not it is your intention to move the Office of Career Technical and Adult Education to the Department of Labor? Well, thank you for that question.
▶ 0:44:28Um, Representative, I I can tell you that one of the executive orders from the president was that the Commerce Department, Department of Labor, and Department of Education should coordinate and look at workforce programs. There were over 50 43 different workforce development programs across all of the agencies is certainly inefficient in operation. So, I've had many discussions with commerce. I've had many discussions with the Secretary of Labor. And I think there are opportunities to move some of those programs.
▶ 0:44:59Well, in your discussions, I would hope you would note the fact that it's in statute that that office is in the Department of Education. Perkins was enacted after the Department of Education was created. It is housed in in in the Department of Education and we are going to be watching very closely in terms of whether or not there's a move made that violates um that law. I also would just note in closing the adult education line item is was zeroed out, which is just stunning.
▶ 0:45:25I mean, this is a program that allows adult learners to get a second chance in life because some people who didn't complete high school on time. Um, and also immigrants who uh again want us get the literacy skills so that they can get naturalized as citizens. I'm speaking at an adult I was invited to speak at an adult education graduation ceremony in Vernon uh Friday night. And I again, it's pretty sad to be able to bring news from Washington that the head that the secretary of education doesn't support adult education. With that, I yield back.
▶ 0:45:55I thank the gentleman. I now recognize the uh chairman emeritus, the gentle lady from North Carolina, Miss Fox. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here and being willing to take on the challenges that you are taking on with the department.
▶ 0:46:13Uh, Madam Secretary, parent plus loans were created by Congress in 1980 to help middle and upper income families access additional funds they might need to make tuition payments for their undergraduate children. It was never intended to be the predominant source of funding for college.
▶ 0:46:32But since the limits on how much could be borrowed were eliminated in the early 1990s, the program has turned into the funding of first resort for too many American families, including those who have no ability to repay the large loan amounts that the government makes available. Indeed, the former president and CEO of the Third Good Marshall College Fund called the program a ticking time bomb. Politico called it the government's predatory lending program.
▶ 0:46:58And the Georgetown Law Center on Poverty Inequality said the program imposes serious risk, including crushing unreayable debt. And for black families in particular, parent plus loans too often have the ability to be debilitating, as noted by a senior vice president, United Negro College Fund.
▶ 0:47:17Recognizing this, the student success and taxpayer protection plan, which was included in the one big beautiful bill and is awaiting action in the Senate, establish a lifetime cap of $50,000 to protect families from overborrowing under the parent plus program. And couple this with additional borrowing flexibility through lower interest Staffford loans. What's the administration's view of the need to put limits on how much parents can borrow under the federal loan programs like parent plus program?
▶ 0:47:48Well, well, we certainly do support uh you know the the limitations because I think what we've seen uh I mean you you know better than anyone, Congresswoman, that uh $1.7 trillion dollar in student loan debt is unacceptable and unsustainable in our country.
▶ 0:48:08And when colleges and universities can absolutely set uh the limit on loans of attendance and the government will loan that amount that is just leading to more and more debt and we have to put some caps we have to put things in place and I applaud u all the many efforts that you have take undertaken to reduce the cost of college. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:48:32Uh, Madam Secretary, each year the federal government provides over a hundred billion in grants and loans through the federal financial aid programs without any accountability as to whether these dollars leave students better off. Indeed, studies show that onethird of students are enrolled in programs that have a negative return on investment, meaning those programs leave students financially worse off than if they had never enrolled in college in the first place.
▶ 0:48:58In your view, is it necessary that Congress address the lack of accountability in post-secary education? Yes. You know, I I do think and as I mentioned a little earlier, I do think that that colleges and universities should have some skin in the game uh for programs that they are offering that can't possibly be repaid.
▶ 0:49:21But one of the things I think it is really important if I may is to say that I believe that there should be more education for parents and students in advance of borrowing. One of the things that we are undertaking it's not in place yet but we are looking at it is in the FAFSA application of having information that says if you were borrowing this much money and you want to attend Xun University this is the amount of money that you might could earn with having this degree.
▶ 0:49:50So take a look at universities across the country and what the mean uh amount is to take that course. Is this the university you want to go to or would you go to another one? Because now you can see exactly what kind of jeopardy, if you will, or what kind of um uh debt you're going to owe and be able to repay. And I think that's really important. I agree completely with you. Uh Madam Secretary, one more question.
▶ 0:50:17Universities are increasingly concerned with creating cultures of inclusion and belonging. But in recent years, we've seen these institutions turn the other way when Jewish students are excluded or subjected to litmus tests about Israel and Zionism. In your opinion, what message does it send to Jewish and Israeli students and faculty on college campuses when universities entertain calls to boycott and devest and devest from Israel?
▶ 0:50:46And what is the Department of Education doing to rein in the damage that BDS causes in higher education? Well, we've certainly taken uh universities to task already through the programs with Colombia that you've seen of reducing or of of stopping their funding, $400 billion.
▶ 0:51:04Uh and right now uh other departments or agencies uh HHS, GSA involved, um we've cut Harvard's funding by $2.2 2 billion dollars and additional 450 million I think is the correct number. We're putting teeth behind these title six violations before uh I think uh I think it was Representative Scott that said maybe the talk is cheap. Well, we've put we've put teeth in these efforts. Thank you, Madam Secretary, and thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:51:33I thank the gentle lady. Now, I recognize the gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Bonabinci. Uh thank you, uh Mr. Chairman. Uh, Secretary McMahon, on February 13th during your confirmation hearing, Senator Murray asked you, if confirmed, do you commit to getting every dollar we have invested in our students and our schools out to them?
▶ 0:51:51And you replied, "Well, the appropriated dollars and those monies that are passed by Congress, yes." And Senator Also Brooks asked you whether you would support any directive from the president to freeze funds that have been appropriated by Congress.
▶ 0:52:04and you responded, "If they have been appropriated by Congress, those funds should be disseminated." Yet, you stood by as Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency froze or terminated more than a billion dollars in congressionally directed federal grants at the Department of Education, and you've made no attempts to reinstate those funds. So, Secretary McMahon, were you not being truthful when you were testified in the Senate? And if you were being truthful, what is your plan to immediately reinstate these funds?
▶ 0:52:33Well, I thank you for that question and I would like to uh perhaps explore with you a little further as to exactly which grants you are talking about. I believe one billion dollars in congressionally directed federal grants that have been cut and uh as I said I would like to work with you and to understand exactly which cut which grants you're talking about. I can also tell you that as part of my testimony of all madam secretary I'm reclaiming my time because the question is congressionally directed funds have been cut. What are you doing to reinstate those funds?
▶ 0:53:02And I also said in that testimony that we would abide by the law and that's exactly what we will do. Well, that would be to reinstate the funds and and I know you have this so-called simplified funding program that consolidates programs for including uh title 4A, which I always lead the appropriations letter for. Uh but overall, this consolidation, so-called consolidation, leads to a $4.5 billion cut. So that makes your statement untruthful if you're not doing anything to restore those funds.
▶ 0:53:31With regard to title 4 A, can you name one of the major categories in title 4A where well cuts will lead to a well-rounded education or world class education as a state. Let let me let me respond to one other thing that you asked before. And when you were talking about the cuts of $4.5 billion, along with that cut goes a great reduction in the cost of regulatory compliance.
▶ 0:53:55Madam Secretary, I need to reclaim my time because I want you to answer the question about which category in 4A we're cutting will lead to a world class education. I'm certainly going to answer your question, but also I think it's important for this committee and for taxpayers to understand that when we cut red tape for regulations, I I understand, Madam Secretary, I have to reclaim my time because you're not answering my question. Well, I'm trying to answer your question. The cuts have happened and it's as Secretary of Education, your job is to faithfully execute the law. Correct. And if you can't do that, you shouldn't be in this job. Uh, I have another question for you.
▶ 0:54:24Since you've been in office, you've violated or stated your intention to violate several major federal laws that have been enacted by Congress. And one of them I want to talk about is the Education Sciences Reform Act. So, that's what I'll focus on. Congress enacted the law more than 20 years ago and created the Institute of Education Sciences. IEES provides evidence-based data to improve student outcomes and support teachers.
▶ 0:54:46But the Trump administ administration unilaterally canceled more than $900 million in IEES grant funding and reduced IIEES staff from 175 to fewer than 20 employees, a reduction of about 90%. So, Secretary McMahon, what statute authorizes you to unilaterally dismantle an office Congress created? What we have done to to the benefit of those grants is to well first of all let me say that there are a lot of contracts that are done in IEES.
▶ 0:55:16So none of those contracted services have been affected. Uh and also what uh what is part of IEES and the funding you're talking about are for NAPE and the NAPE program is already in place for the next five years. However, we did renegotiate that contract and save $540 billion I think. And you can do that with fewer than 20 employees is what you're saying. We are doing it because we are able to continue doing what we do because the contracted services which are still in place have not been affected. Yeah.
▶ 0:55:45It's it's hard to believe that you can meet the statutory obligations without money or adequate staff. What do the NAPE scores show when dis disagregated by income? By the way, I beg you pardon. What do the NAPE scores show when disagregated by income? When disagreg Okay. Well, maybe you should look at the NAPE scores because the what they say you you and the chairman and a lot of members of this committee use the NAPE scores to talk about how education is doing. What we really need to look at is how we address lowincome students. Oh, okay.
▶ 0:56:15You're talking about performance and achievement gaps. Okay, I get it now. Yes. Okay. Well, NAPE scores, I think, continually uh show what we all know to be true. I think I've looked at in my state of Connecticut. It's one of the things that first got me into government. and I looked at the achievement gaps and that's what I wanted to make sure that we were servicing. And and as my time expires, Madam Secretary, what they show is that we need to have investments to help our low-income students succeed. And you are cutting those investments.
▶ 0:56:41And I I ran for Congress because I wanted to make public education better, but not just for a few. Not just those who are worthy of private dollars, and not just those in wealthy neighborhoods, but every single student. As Secretary of Education, I hope you would have the same goal. I do. And thank you, gentle lady's time is expired. I now recognize the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Thank you very much, Chairman Tim Wahberg, for your great leadership on behalf of the American people.
▶ 0:57:10And gosh, thank you, Madam Secretary, for your vision and courage uh to promote local school control of education for parents, for students, for teachers. And Washington is not all wise. and the local elected school boards should be where power is exhibited and where people know better about the local communities and it should be devolved to them.
▶ 0:57:33Additionally, I I want to thank you and uh President Trump, you're successfully empowering American citizens, not big government. and you're actually doing the exact opposite of any uh dictatorship in that power is being returned to the people, the local elected school boards that uh so well reflect the citizens uh who have elected them. And then I I believe you are the right person for the job.
▶ 0:58:00Uh additionally, I believe too that it it's so clear that education is a state issue uh and it should remain as a state issue. Uh it should not be a federal issue. And with that in mind, I recently led a letter along with 27 of my colleagues to call for an increase in funding for the federal charter schools program CSP.
▶ 0:58:23Across the country, the charter school community is committed to providing families with highquality public education options uh voluntarily choice of their parents. And I am grateful to see that President Trump's budget would increase the charter school program by 14%. Furthermore, last month during National Chartered Schools Week, you announced an additional $60 million in funding for the CSP this year to help meet the needs of families across the country.
▶ 0:58:51The for the American people and particularly for the media. Uh if you will explain uh what the success is of the voluntary school choice programs are and uh how is this money going to be spent around the country? Well, thank you very much. uh, Congressman Wilson for for a for your kind words about me. Uh, but also I have visited many schools, many charter schools throughout the country already.
▶ 0:59:19And what I have seen with those charter schools is the innovation that they are allowed to use that you don't see in a lot of our public schools. And so I'm very pleased to see that the president is also supporting school choice. The the president wants to make sure that the best education is that that's closest to the child. whether that's homeschooling, charter schools, public schools, private schools, religious schools, he wants to make every opportunity available to all the children in the country.
▶ 0:59:49So, I am pleased uh that we did increase the budget request for charter schools and I I I too have visited the schools and I I visit all the schools uh that I can in the district I represent uh every type that you just identified and I hope the media will go by and visit a charter school uh and see how positive they are and find out how uh the students are doing so well. But and they're voluntary.
▶ 1:00:15It's what uh and it may not it's not for everyone but where it is the media uh it would be nice for them as they're doing investigative reporting uh to look into uh truly uh not just a the viewpoint of the teachers union but what's really happening in America along with that secretary mahan I'm really concerned that we have adversaries war criminal Putin we have the Chinese communist party we have the dictatorship in tan are targeting
▶ 1:00:45our universities and colleges. What can we done do again to stop this their inroads and it's already been successful removing contious institutes which are a branch of the communist party uh Chinese Communist Party. So what more can be done to um promote uh freedom and democracy in instead of totalitarianism?
▶ 1:01:06Well, I think um we've certainly seen uh in fact, one of the requirements we had of Harvard was that they or or one of the questions we had of Harvard is how are they vetting their students uh that come internationally? How are they vetting their teachers, their professors who come internationally? Uh are they do they have ideological uh backgrounds that are contrary to the United States government? Uh we also I mean I heard this morning on the news that there was a student from China.
▶ 1:01:34I think it was discovered in July that had um uh fungus spores in a backpack from China that he brought to University of Michigan. Now, we have to make sure that we stop that because this can be an attack on our food supply, an attack on our uh you know, our total population.
▶ 1:01:54So these are incredibly important things and the state department is looking at visas, cancelling them, making sure that the students who are here are here in the best interest of the United States. And thank you for promoting uh free speech and also international students who want to come and learn and be positive uh but also understand that there may be agents of foreign countries coming to our country. I yield back. I thank the gentleman and I recognize the gentleman and teacher from California, Mr. Pico. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:02:23Chairman, thank you for being here, Madam Secretary. Good to see you again. Uh, let's get right to it. Um, Madam Secretary, do you believe that the federal government is legally or constitutionally permitted to punish a private entity for having a different viewpoint than the administration? What do you mean by Well, do you have does the government have the power or legally or is it legal or constitutional for you the secretary to punish a private entity for having a different viewpoint than the administration?
▶ 1:02:54I don't know what you mean by punish. Can you be more Well, let's move on. Apparently, we're gonna I don't want to get into this um back and forth on this. Uh let me say um I'm this poster here. you gave an interview on CNBC on May 28th. Um, I'm going to uh and discussing the cancellation of Harvard University's federal funding, grants, and contracts.
▶ 1:03:16And you said, and I quote, "Universities should continue to be able to do research as long as they're abiding by the laws and in sync, I think, with the administration and what I think the administration is trying to accomplish." So what you're saying, so you're saying Harvard can have its funding and its international students back if and when it teaches what the Trump administration demands.
▶ 1:03:39And these demands are included in this April 11th letter signed by the Department of Education, other agencies, and uh and include a requirement that the government must be able to quote unquote audit the viewpoints of its student body, faculty, staff to ensure quote unquote viewpoint diversity. I ask unanimous consent to submit this letter for the record. Without objection, it'll be submitted.
▶ 1:04:03Um, and it says, I quote in the letter, quote, Harvard must abolish all criteria, preferences, and practices through its admissions and hiring practices that function as ideological litmus tests. End quote. Now, Madam Secretary, what are the limits of this viewpoint diversity that the administration is trying to enforce under these demands? For example, would the Harvard Government Department be compelled to hire faculty that believe the 2020 election was stolen?
▶ 1:04:36I believe that um there are rights to freedom of speech there uh and that on campuses and universities of colleges and universities across the country, freedom of speech should be allowed. There should be open debate. There should be different views. I'm not asking you a question about freedom of speech here. Madam Secretary, I'm asking you about the the the limits of viewpoint diversity cited in this letter.
▶ 1:05:03You demand that Harvard should would be compelled to hire faculty. I mean, uh well, you're you're saying that there has to be viewpoint diversity. I'm just asking you would Harvard uh would the government department be compelled to hire faculty that believe the 2020 election was stolen? as an example of viewpoint diversity. However, one of the things that Harvard Crimson and by it by its own Okay, I think you're you don't really have an answer. So, I'm going to move on to other questions. Maybe we can clarify by the questions.
▶ 1:05:32Would viewpoint diversity mean that for example, Madam Secretary Reclaiming my time? Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my time, Madam Secretary. Secretary would the Harvard Medical School who is looking to hire an immunologist would that person need to adhere to HH HHS Secretary Kennedy's view on the efficacy of vaccines? Listen, we all know that we should have our universities look at what all the programs are.
▶ 1:06:00Really thought through viewpoint diversity issue that you're trying to put forth is a false narrative. Okay. And the funding is a privilege. Madam sir, recall reclaim my time. Does refusing to hire a Holocaust denier as a member of Harvard's history department faculty count as an ideological limit test? I believe that there should be diversity of viewpoints relative to teachings and opinions on campuses.
▶ 1:06:28But what about what about this situation of Harvard's history department and they're looking for another department member? would being a Holocaust denier. I do know that I do know that Harvard did replace its head of Middle Eastern studies even before we looked at it because they believed that they needed to make changes already. Okay.
▶ 1:06:49Can you explain to me how cutting funding to improve to uh to uh cutting funding to cancer research which may save the lives of children will help Jewish students on Well, we had to put some teeth uh in the uh anti-semitism study. So, we used that actually didn't come from the Department of Education. They came from HHS.
▶ 1:07:13So, therefore, Harvard had indicated that it might even take from its endowment, which is 53 billion some funds to continue that research. And I think that might have been a really good use for some of those funds. Well, I think it's pretty clear you haven't really thought through this whole viewpoint. Well, you wouldn't know because you haven't allowed me to answer my questions, but thank you. Well, I think you've you were showing that you couldn't really answer the questions. Gentleman's I I I would yield back. I thank the gentleman. Now, I recognize gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr.
▶ 1:07:43Growthman. Yeah. First of all, I'd like to comment on uh a statement made by by our newest member here in Wisconsin. And I felt one of the things we did to improve education the most is stand up to the teachers union and allow some of the worst teachers to be let go. And I think it's disappointing. We have people who think the key to improving education is unionizing the schools. And unionizing the schools inevitably means you can't get rid of the worst teachers.
▶ 1:08:13So uh just a little bit my personal experience in Wisconsin. Uh, second thing, people here mention the GED and at least in Wisconsin, we weren't allowed even as a state legislator to see the GED, but somebody released it to me anyway, I guess, breaking the law. And I was shocked at how easy those tests were. It was almost comical.
▶ 1:08:35I'm going to ask you, will you do what you can to at least for some states, I don't know whether it's a nationwide thing or a state-by-state thing, release some of these GED exams, even if they're four or five years old, so the public can see what they mean. Well, thank you for your question. I'm not sure that's under my jurisdiction, but I would like to look into it and get back to you on that. Okay. Um, next thing, just covering workforce pel just a second. I know it sounds good.
▶ 1:09:04uh at least in Wisconsin uh when I talked to trucking firms, I saw a ma I toured a manufacturer last week who was paying for the uh tech school degrees for its PE employees even before the people were employed there. Uh same thing with construction firms paying for the education. So I kind of felt a little bit that this workforce fellas were driving in and paying for stuff the private sector's taken care of already.
▶ 1:09:32So I I'll just ask you to look into that. Now, as far as bias and the anti-semitism in universities, to me, it's part of part and parcel of of a larger problem. Uh anybody who's been involved in Republican politics for a while has met students who have to lie routinely on test to feel they have to get a good score.
▶ 1:09:53And it's because you have this monolithic left wing that is got almost all in some disciplines uh of the teaching jobs. And it's it's and to me this anti-semitism is increasingly part of the left-wing ziggese that that it's everywhere uh in the universities global warming b um greatly exaggerated amount of bias in the universities that sort of thing.
▶ 1:10:22What do you think, and I honestly don't know the answer to this, what do you think we can do about the overwhelming left-wing bias in so many disciplines at the universities? Well, I think that's one of the things that I I've been talking about is um is doing some vetting on how the courses are being taught and to make sure that we have, you know, equal and diverse viewpoints.
▶ 1:10:48I mean when Harvard will through its own Harvard Crimson say that only 3% of the faculty are conservative I don't think we have diversity viewpoints uh in that case and even uh even in hiring we're looking at Harvard um well you know Harvard had the standard case it was students versus Harvard and that it was Harvard's not hiring you know through merit and it's and it's decreasing those populations of
▶ 1:11:18students from uh you know we're not we're it's it's against a lot of Asians in the community. So all of those things have to be taken into consideration. I agree with you that we have a shortage of people going into skills-based um learning programs, be they tech schools, be they trade schools, what have you.
▶ 1:11:40I think part of the answer is to disseminate the statistics showing how much better say a plumber or an electrician or a welder does than people with a communication arts degree or a business marketing degree. Um, and it's a very difficult thing to know what to do because of course under our constitution education is not really something that we think of as a federal thing. But I think you could disseminate that.
▶ 1:12:04Would you try to do what you could to um during your term educate the public as to how much better financially people do with a skill as opposed to a general education degree? I certainly would like to uh to make sure that everyone does understand that. Would you publicize it? I guess that's what I'm looking for. Would you publicize how much better I think those stats are available. All you have to do is have a plumber come to your house.
▶ 1:12:32Boy, I can tell you that I'm going I might be in the wrong business sometime. I I hope you use your position. My my final question is um one of my colleagues here talked about um so-called difference by income level. And I always think that's not where they should be looking. I think they should be looking by family background.
▶ 1:12:51Would you collect data unlike for income level uh family background of students and see by that I mean family structure and see how that affects educational test scores? Would you do that for us? I I'd like I'd really like to get back to you and understand a little bit more of what you would like us to look into, but I will get back to you on that. Gentleman's time is expired. I now yield recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina, Miss Adams, for her five minutes. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:13:21Chairman, and thank you, uh, Secretary McMahon, for being here today. I I hope that I will have an opportunity to meet with you. I'd made a request, and we weren't able to do that. Uh, and hopefully you'll reconsider. Uh, but let me just uh raise a concern that I heard from one of my constituents who who served in the Department of Grants Management Policy Division. Their entire unit received a riff notice in March.
▶ 1:13:48Uh and uh this this office from what I understand held key oversight functions for grant administration and compliance and ensuring that taxpayer dollars were were used effectively and legally and and that the department's obligations under federal statute were met. I know you've spoken about the importance of streamlining uh and efficiency and I respect that.
▶ 1:14:10I know it's difficult sometimes, but let me ask if you can speak to the department's plan for transitioning this critical compliance work moving forward and how you are ensuring uh that core responsibilities around federal grant oversight, training and legal compliance are still being fulfilled. Well, thank you very much for your question.
▶ 1:14:30Just let me give you the assurance that uh even with the um streamlining that we have done so far, we have not missed any of our statutory requirements and that's what we will continue to do. So, so, so you have and you are going to meet those. Is that what you're saying? Yes. Okay.
▶ 1:14:50So, let me ask you um as you already know uh title three part B provides mandatory funding to H.B.CU CUS and and I appreciate your statement on H.B.CU. I'm a 40-year professor at an H.B.CU, a graduate twice of one.
▶ 1:15:04Uh, but can you speak to how the department is using the data and metrics to track the the long-term impact of outcomes like academic performance uh research competitiveness uh and infrastructure modernization at our H.B.CU that are approximately almost 200 years old.
▶ 1:15:23And beyond that, uh how do you uh plan to scale what's working and if we're seeing strong results uh at one campus and how can we make sure uh that these best practices are reaching others? Well, thank you very much for asking. Um we have held all of our uh funding H.B.CU's uh level. Uh they've not been uh decreased.
▶ 1:15:47I've met with President Vincent from Howard University and understand from him a lot of the great programs they have in place. So we recognize the great value of H.B.CU. And I believe and I I can get back to you to make sure that this is correct statement. But I believe that the president also has a special office in the administration uh for H.B.CU. Yes. Yes, ma'am. He does. And um uh and of course he did have an executive order on H.B.CU.
▶ 1:16:15Uh and of course you you know that the H.B.CU's partners act signed into law by the president requires agencies to to report each year to Congress on how they're supporting H.B.CU and how that aligns with the goals of the executive order and the White House initiative which you just spoke about. So let's say that that there's a grant that gets cancelled, but that that cancellation doesn't line up with the executive order or the intent of the H.B.CU DCU Partners Act.
▶ 1:16:45Would you be willing to to work with the White House initiative and your inner agency partners to take another look at those decisions and potentially reinstate grants that were inconsistent with that guidance? Certainly, I would always look into those things, but we we have not canceled any grants. Oh, yes, ma'am. Okay. Well, we're going to we're going to make sure that we follow up on that. Yeah, we'll we'll follow up if that's if that's not the case. All right. Well, thank you.
▶ 1:17:08Are there ways that that you could look uh at to incentivize uh required state matches to H.B.CU as the executive order states because currently that's not being done. I'm not sure that it's not being done, but I would like to look into it further and uh and if it is not being done, I'd like to talk to you about it. Yes, ma'am. I I want to talk to you about it because I can assure you that it is not being done. Uh but let me let me just say uh uh Mr.
▶ 1:17:36Chairman, I do want to ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record a 2024 report from the Century Foundation uh that outlines studies that show that HBCU provide an incredible return on investment. Without objection, it'll be submitted. Well, thank you and and Madam Secretary, uh thank you very much. Uh I know that I'm almost slightly over my time, but I'm looking forward to uh this year's HBCU week.
▶ 1:18:01Uh, I saw that the website has been updated and I certainly appreciate the effort to to keep that momentum going. I look forward to, as I said, uh, in my opening comments to having that one-on-one with you. Uh, I would certainly appreciate if you would if you would honor that request and thank you very much for being here. And, Mr. Chair, I yield back. Thank you. I'll certainly do that. Gentle lady yields right on time. Thank you. I recognize gentle lady from New York, Mr. Fonic. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:18:31Chairman. Secretary McMahon, thank you for being here today. Uh, I want to follow up on my colleague across the aisles back and forth where you didn't have an opportunity to answer the question. As you know, I've been very engaged in leading this effort in terms of holding Harvard accountable. We saw the scourge of anti-semit anti-semitism after the Hamas attacks on October 7th. and Harvard failed in every respect to enforce the rules to protect Jewish students.
▶ 1:18:59And over the course of our investigation, it was revealed that there was anti-semitism deep in the office of DEI at Harvard for their failure to respond to Jewish students and it highlighted this issue of a failure of ideological diversity. I wanted to add some more details to what you pointed out. Less than 3% of the Harvard faculty are conservative. And this is a challenge in education at large.
▶ 1:19:24According to the Harvard Crimson, as of 1989, the ratio was 2:1 liberal to conservative. By 2017, it was 5:1. And then as of 2023, it's 26:1. So when we talk about ideological diversity, it is a crisis at Harvard. Can you further elaborate on that? Well, just agreeing with what you've said, I mean, when when by their own statistics, uh, it is clear that they don't have diversity viewpoint.
▶ 1:19:52And uh I believe and and as I mentioned a little bit earlier the fact that Harvard had already replaced its head or was looking replace its head of Middle East studies recognizing that they already had an issue. I think it's um it's indicative that Harvard even before we were um initiating our talk. Well, I actually think that we spurred them on. Absolutely.
▶ 1:20:18We when we started putting teeth in what we were doing, they finally said, "Okay, we're we're going to make some changes." And they did do that shortly after we started our investigation. And you're spot on, Secretary McMahon. Harvard has failed to save itself. They are responding to the exceptional work of this committee and the accountability measures that this administration has put into place. So, I want to thank you for your strong leadership. I want to thank President Trump for his strong leadership.
▶ 1:20:44I care deeply about this as an alumni of of Harvard and as the first member of my immediate family to have that opportunity. We want to make sure these institutions are excellent for generations to come. My followup which is on a different subject. This has come up in virtually every meeting that I've had whether it's with university presidents, professors or students is the challenge of AI uh and academic integrity in the classroom.
▶ 1:21:09Can you talk about the department's approach in terms of how to harness the benefits of this technology but also make sure that we are learning the basics in the classroom and have academic integrity. You know, I think AI is probably one of the it's so overwhelming with the abilities that it can bring, but it also has a downside and dangers.
▶ 1:21:32We want to make sure that AI is not uh you know leading to uh false essays or papers or studies that students are turning in. However, when I've looked at K through2 education and I've seen some of the tutorial benefits for individual studies through AI, I think it brings so much to the table that we can uh offer students who are uh accomplishing more in the classroom who or who aren't accomplishing as much by that one-on-one tutorial advantage.
▶ 1:22:02So I think we need to harness and capture those opportunities from AI but at the same time making sure we understand and I don't think we even have this much of a handle on it yet of what uh of what some of the dangers of AI can be and I think that that's what's incumbent upon us to look across the board at all of that. Well, thank you for that.
▶ 1:22:23And my last question, and this is primarily for K through 12, and I think about this both as a policy maker, but as a mom, as my young uh three-year-old who is finishing preK3, but screen time for our kids and the dangers of huge amounts of screen time. I want to credit my colleague Kevin Kylie, who's host a hearing on this next week.
▶ 1:22:44Can you discuss the administration and the department's approach to tackling this very concerning issue that has had huge impacts on the mental health but also the focus of our kids? Well, and I do think this is uh really at state level. Yes. Uh and there are governors who are you know promoting policies or superintendents who are put in policies in their local areas that say you know bell-to-bell uh in schools no devices so that students aren't distracted you know from what they're doing.
▶ 1:23:13And I think parents at home need to look at the amount of screen time that their their children this is a great deal of parental responsibility as well. And uh we you know we've looked at at different aspects. I've seen reports of more and more screen time which then reduces your ability to focus and have attention for your subjects. So while there is an entertainment value and information value to screen time, it's uh it's not always uh I think less could be more.
▶ 1:23:41Thank you so much, Secretary McMahon, for your service, for the tremendous work you're doing for students across the country. Yield back. Thank you. I thank the gentle lady. Now, I that I've lost sight here. A little too soon. I now want to recognize the gentle lady from Georgia, Miss McBth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Secretary McMahon. Thank you so much for being with us today.
▶ 1:24:08As secretary, you have a direct authority over the cancellation of grants and contracts at the Department of Education. On February 10th, you cancelled the Charting My Path for Student Success program that served over 1,600 disabled students and their families across 62 schools in 11 states, including Paul County, which is in my home state of Georgia.
▶ 1:24:32This yearround program provided support services and frequent small groupoup sessions to ensure that physically disabled students or students with dyslexia, autism, and other disabilities as well as their families can meet their goals of transitioning to and succeeding in adulthood, which is really what every parent wishes for their child. All too often, it's unfortunately um a sink or swim situation for disabled students after high school.
▶ 1:25:02And program programs like this can be the difference between a lifetime on disability insurance versus a good job that they can raise a family on. On this poster right here, you can see the exact email that was sent out to parents in Georgia because of your decision, which I would like to submit digitally for the record.
▶ 1:25:25It says, "The federal funding provided by the Department of Education for this initiative has been discontinued immediately and that your child will no longer receive transition supports. I would like to also submit for the record an article from NPR about a young man named Logan and his mother Jesse who were really benefiting from this program before it was abruptly cancelled. Secretary, this is just simply a yes or no answer.
▶ 1:25:54Do you stand by your decision to cancel this program in the middle of the school year without any warning to the hundreds of students, teachers, and families that were participating? Well, I would like to uh explore that more. Secretary, this is a yes or no answer. It's not a yes or no answer. Yes, it is. And the American people deserve I'm not going to give you a yes or no answer because answer from you. Yes or no. I'm not going to let you circumvent. I'm not going to let you ignore it. Yes or no?
▶ 1:26:24It's a simple question. I'll have to stand by this decision of the different programs and I can't speak to individual grant programs without looking into them exactly. There were there are a lot of grant programs out there. So I'd like to get back to you. Note for the record that the secretary is unwilling to answer my question.
▶ 1:26:46Is it clear or do you believe that you are misleading the public regarding the actions that you and President Trump have taken to cut or cancel programs and services for disabled children and their families. You have said multiple times that disabled students will not be negatively impacted by your decisions, but they already are.
▶ 1:27:09Time and time again, this administration asked the American people to listen to everything that they say, but to ignore actually what they're really doing. Giving our limited time, I plan to submit written questions to you and for the record to learn more about your decision and get some direct answers from these parents as to why the kids can't meet with their teachers anymore. Secretary, yes or no? Simple answer, just a direct answer.
▶ 1:27:39Do you believe that gun violence, the leading cause of death for children in this country, is a public health crisis? I believe that gun violence is just we shouldn't we should take steps to make sure that gun violence does not happen in our Is it a public health crisis to you? The American people and families want to know, do you believe that our children sitting in our classrooms should be fear of unnecessary gun violence?
▶ 1:28:10Most of America believes that this is a public scourge. Do you believe that gun violence poses a threat to our children while they're sitting in our classrooms? Gun violence should not be allowed anywhere and gun violence especially should not be in our schools.
▶ 1:28:28I'd like to say to you, Secretary, as a mother who lost her son to unnecessary gun violence in the prime of his teen his teenage years, your response or basically a lack of response is completely out of touch. Every parent, whether they send their kids to public or private school, worries about their child being killed at school. And there's a lot of data to prove that. It is unfortunate reality that this happens every single day. But yes, this is the reality.
▶ 1:28:56There's something very wrong when the highest ranking government officials responsible for the safety and education of our kids cannot claim that the leading cause of death among children is not a crisis. Every American should be deeply concerned while you remain Secretary of Education. And I hope that I'm able to get some answers in writing from you and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady and now I recognize the gentleman from Utah. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
▶ 1:29:26Good seeing you again here. Ah, there you go. Uh, first of all, I'd like to to thank you for bringing your entrepreneurial uh uh expertise to an industry that has long forgotten what a good return on investment is when it comes down to teaching our kids. Uh there's nothing more important for the survival of American culture than what you're tasked to do. Uh you you represent the end of accepting failure as an option.
▶ 1:29:51And on behalf of those who love the role of educators because they love the children that teach, I want to thank you for for that that passion. Uh as you know, the house passed resolution uh reconciliation bill includes a version of the education choice of children's act which provide billions in tax credit scholarships to school for school choice. I have long advocated for school choice and I'm eager to see a muchneeded school choice legislation enacted into federal uh level.
▶ 1:30:18Why do you think expanding school choice is such a huge win for parents who are desperate for educational options? Well, thank you very much, Congressman, for for that question. Um, school choice, I believe, um, is one of the top things we can do to make sure that every child has equal access to an excellent education.
▶ 1:30:40And President Trump certainly believes, and I've I've said this many times even this morning, he truly believes, as do I, that the best education is that that is closest to the child. When uh you know, when we think about teachers who are with our students, our children every single day, school superintendent and parents who should have rights over the say of the curriculum that are being taught to their children. These are all things that are part of the school choice program.
▶ 1:31:09The president does not believe that any child should be um imprisoned, if you will, in a failing school, but should have opportunities to go to other schools. And so I'm really pleased to see that he is um wanted limits or or the budgets increased for our charter schools. Uh he wants to make sure that our public schools have uh you know the best teachers, the best funding.
▶ 1:31:36He wants to make sure that all private schools, religious schools, and even those that that are teaching their children at home with homeschooling have all the best tools available. He was embarrassed by the NAPE scores. He was embarrassed by where education levels were in our country. And he was angry.
▶ 1:31:52Uh and uh and when he's talked to me about it, he he said, "We absolutely need to make changes so that our students can have the best education in the world and that their performance scores will indicate that." By the way, we should all should be angry by what's happened to our kids today. It is a travesty. Um, and by the way, uh, every child, no matter what zip code they live in, deserve the the rights for life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The only thing that can only happen is through education.
▶ 1:32:19Uh, you have, uh, been aggressive in attacking the scourge of DEI in our educational institutions. Uh, this has been the root cause of anti-mitism. Our our children are trained to embrace. Of course, our Democratic colleagues were accused of attacking free speech, whitewashing history, and using DEI as a cover to launch a political crusade against institutions you don't like.
▶ 1:32:39Could you talk more about why DEI is is important an important civil rights issue for all unfortunately, many of the programs of DEI did more I mean the title was diversity, equity, inclusion, and it did more, I think, to separate and to provide more segregation ideas because it it pitted an oppressor versus ideology.
▶ 1:33:09Uh many students were taught that if you're white, you're privileged. uh if if you're not, you should not bring that privileged group as part of what you're doing. That that is exactly contrary to I think everything we've been trying to accomplish in our country over the years so that everyone really has equal access, equal opportunity under the law.
▶ 1:33:32Uh yesterday you had a a hearing with a senator out of Rhode Island who said you are surrendering by giving the power back to the back to uh the parents and the districts. I I just want to remind everybody that we in 2025 have 70% of our kids in eth grade cannot read, write and think. In 2017, black kids in the state of Cal California 75% could not read, write, and think. here in Baltimore have zero proficiency in math for many of the schools in this district.
▶ 1:34:02So I think it's kind of um arrogant for those bureaucrats here politicians who believe that we do we do it best for for our kids and when when the parents should be at the the foreign front of that. I want to thank you your you and your and and this department and this administration for understanding the power belongs with parents and we're going to start producing some of the the smartest wisest and the most hopeful students in the history of mankind. So thank you for that. I appreciate it. I yield back. Thank you, sir. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 1:34:30I recognize gentle lady from Pennsylvania, Miss Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I think that in very many ways we've been talking around a lot of the issues with this administration. So, I I to be honest and and to be very clear, I want to say that this administration has undoubtedly revived the culture of racism we haven't seen since the Jim Crow era. They've made it clear that open attacks on black and brown and other marginalized communities is not just tolerated, but it's encouraged.
▶ 1:34:56So when they call for removing of equity and inclusion and diversity and accessibility from schools in favor of quote unquote traditional American values, it's indistinguishable from postwar civil uh post civil war south advocating to write history with the lost cause narrative to censor truths about slavery or as they disappear students who write the senting opeds. It's reminiscent of the suppression of abolitionist newspapers.
▶ 1:35:20And this department's financial aid policies hearken back to a time when higher education was reserved for affluent, well-connected, and predominantly white students. So, I have a question. I have some questions, excuse me, about why this department is taking its leads from Jim Crow. Secretary McMahon, you've claimed that you want to drastically reduce the already very small federal role in education. Uh, and also that you will not cut Title 1A funding. That is still your position. Correct. Correct. Thank you. I'd like a yes or no answer.
▶ 1:35:50Do you believe your April 3rd attempt to revoke Title 1A funding from states unless a signed uh unless they signed a certification of compliance with your political viewpoint was consistent with giving states more control over education? There's been no reduction in funding for uh title 1A as of now. There has not been yet. But again, and it is not in going forward in the budget. So you believe that that's so you do okay. Yes or no?
▶ 1:36:18Is title 1A funding actually secure for every school district and state that currently receives it? Or is your goal to make Title 1A conditional on states refusing to provide students of color, LGBTQA students, students with disabilities, or other marginalized students opportunities to participate in diverse, inclusive, equitable, and accessible learning environments? No, that's what I answered. 1A funding is intact. Okay. So, let's talk about so-called illegal DEI, as you all have called it.
▶ 1:36:43phrase you've continually bring up uh that I'm still unclear on, especially after three federal judges have preliminarily ruled that your illegal DEI guidance is likely unconstitutional, uninforceable, illegal as it were. Uh Secretary McMahon, during your confirmation hearing, you were asked uh by Senator Chris Murphy if an African-American history class violated the administration's position on diversity, equity, and inclusion. You said you'd like to look into it. Um you've been on the job for a few months month months now. Have you been able to look into it?
▶ 1:37:12I do not think that uh uh African studies or Middle East studies or Chinese studies are part of DEI if they are taught as part of the total history package. Uh so that if you're giving the facts on both sides, of course, they're not DEI. I don't know what both sides of African-American history would be.
▶ 1:37:30Well, if African-American history is part of part of certainly, but what we recognize throughout public ed what we recognize throughout education is that a course is only one year or one semester, it would be impossible to teach African history and say European history at the same time. Do you not agree that it makes sense that there would be separate courses for these uh courses of study and has happened throughout history. We're able to do it not just in history courses, we're able to do it with different types of literature courses or different types of music courses.
▶ 1:37:56One won't learn one wouldn't learn about Baroque music and and necessarily have to also learn about African drumming at the same time, right? We can separate those courses. Yes, we can. And I think just as we teach US history is a separate course. Certainly. So you do not agree. So you do agree that African-American cultures and African history should not be eliminated from courses, particularly AP African history. Well, I think that African history can certainly be taught and not be considered a DEI course. Oh, thank you. I have a few other examples that I would like to your thoughts on. Simple yes or no.
▶ 1:38:24Um, if this is a de illegal DEI, an example, would you say that it would be an illegal DEI for a lesson plan on the Tulsa race massacre? I'd have to get back to you on that. Do you know what the Tulsa Race Massacre is? I'd like to look into it more and get back to you on it. Okay. So, uh, I look forward to that. How about um the book Through My Eyes by Ruby Bridges, for instance? I haven't read that. Have you learned about Ruby Bridges? If you have specific examples you like that was a specific example. I'll be very happy.
▶ 1:38:55It was an incredibly specific example. I named a speific questions and I will look into it and get back to you on the How about a school having a voluntary celebration for Pride Month? Well, I think that um voluntary. Well, let's make sure that in our schools or we're looking No, it's not. Okay. Uh how about social studies standards that teach President Biden won the 2020 election? I think our school our studies should all be taught accurately. Yes or no?
▶ 1:39:24I think our studies should No, no, no. The question was, do you believe that social studies standards that teach that President Biden won the 2020 election is an illegal DEI? Yes or no? I think I have said we should teach accurately. We should be No, you have not answered the question. I don't understand why you're incapable of not giving you the answer you want. No, I want the answer. Whatever your answer is, I just gave you the answer. No, the answer is yes or no. Oh, the answer is I The answer is yes or no. Gentle ladies, thank you so much. I yel back. Expired.
▶ 1:39:56I now recognize the gentle lady from Michigan, Miss Mlan. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Madam Ch uh Secretary, for being here, and thank you so much for your leadership in our joint efforts to downsize the Department of Education. like you and the president, I believe education policy is best determined by states and local communities along with parents.
▶ 1:40:22Obviously, the closer you are to the students, the the the more interactive and and the more hands-on experience you really have. Um we we have this to deliver the best outcomes for the students. I think that is our goal is to make sure we're delivering the best outcomes to the students. Um to that aim we have we have seen states, teachers unions and other bulldo parents rights in a pursuit of indoctrination over education.
▶ 1:40:52And I I think that's what you were alluding to earlier is we'll teach any subject as long as we can correct the truth with the other half of the truth and we can teach both sides which seems what education used to be. We used to teach and I'm I'm wondering if you agree with me on this. We used to teach children how to think as opposed to what to think. Would that be an accurate assessment? I think we do need to get back to teaching children more how to think. Amen.
▶ 1:41:21So, as we return power to local communities, how I'm trying to figure out how can the federal government fulfill its role in students and the parents rights? How how does how do you see the federal government and how can we help in ensure that we're protecting students and the the the people that get lost sometimes the parents. How do we do that?
▶ 1:41:47Well, certainly returning um education back to the states back more local control. But really what that means and what the president has said to me is that he would like to take the bureaucracy out of education. You know, the the Department of Education uh does not establish curriculum in a state. It doesn't hire teachers. It doesn't say what books to buy. It doesn't do any of those things.
▶ 1:42:12It is a it is a great pass through of funding that is appropriated by Congress through title one. Both of those are staying totally intact. Uh but there are competitive grants that are then reviewed by the Department of Education. And so those competitive grants do go to states. Uh and so what we want to do is to make more money available to go directly to the states.
▶ 1:42:33When you consider the fact that of every dollar that goes to a state, a teacher is spending about 47 cents of that dollar in regulatory compliance. But if we can get rid of a lot of the red tape that goes along with those grants and those uh requirements, then there's more money for the states to put forth the programs that they would like to put forth. And that's clearly one of the president's goals. Yeah. I I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I want to make sure that I understand you correctly.
▶ 1:43:04So, what you're saying is if we took that dollar that right now is earmarked and 47 cents of that dollar is going for compliance issues, regulatory issues, right? You're saying we would actually have more dollar more of that dollar to give to the actual student. Certainly the goal. Wow. What a concept. Who could not be for that? I ju I just don't understand.
▶ 1:43:30If our goal is truly to educate the student, who would not be for giving more money to the student? Not only giving more money to the students, but to make sure that parental rights are protected, that parents have more say so in the curriculum, that their students are being taught, that they uh that they understand what is going on in the classroom. And I urge parents to take a more active role in their students education.
▶ 1:43:57I I think that teaching is one of the most noble professions in our country. But they do need support. They need support at home and uh I think parents can and many parents are so involved. But I urge parents to become more involved in schoolboard elections uh and you know just attending those meetings that impact their children. So, it's actually a good thing when parents show up at schoolboard meetings and it's really a good things when parents are involved. They're not terrorists or or or whatnot.
▶ 1:44:27That's a good thing. We actually want parents involved in the students education. Um to to that end, I know parents have the right to opt out of specific lesson plans for their for their child if they it goes against their specific religious belief or whatnot. But I believe at times it's difficult for the parent to get that done.
▶ 1:44:49What do you see moving forward to make it easier for parents to opt their child out of something that they don't want them um involved in? How do you see that happening? Well, there again, that's really part of the local education system and the Department of Education does not have jurisdiction or control over that. I would just urge parents though independently to continue to approach their school boards, their individual schools, the teachers, and the superintendent to to make their voices heard.
▶ 1:45:19And with that, my time has expired. Thank you all for all of your work to getting actual more dollars to where it should go to the actual students. Thank you. Thank you. And I recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. D. Sonier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:45:35Um, I'd like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a statement from the National DI D disability Rights Network discussing how the Department of Education's proposed budget cuts would eliminate critical programs that provide advocacy service to individuals with disabilities. Without objection. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Madam Secretary, thank you for being here today.
▶ 1:45:57I am particularly interested in your comments and your background as a person who comes from the private sector business uh about how you create efficiencies and to one person's bureaucracy uh another one is a good valued employee whether it's the public or private sector. I want to start by reading a quote uh from a federal judge who stopped the closure of the department of education and layoffs. Judge John said that in regards to layoffs of this scale, quote, will likely the department.
▶ 1:46:27The idea that the defendants defendants's actions are merely a reorganization is plainly not true. She goes on to say, "A department without enough employees to perform statutory mandated functions is not a department at all. This court cannot be asked to cover its eyes while a department's employees are continuously fired and units are transferred out until a department becomes a shell of itself.
▶ 1:46:54So this is in the context of uh you're eliminating staff bureaucrats I think to your words uh the judge clearly disagreed with you um and in the context of special education where we've seen students that the number of special education students in the last 10 years doubled.
▶ 1:47:11Uh, I don't know if you've ever sat down with a parent or a special ed educator and try to work with them and see what they have to go through to get the services that they are statutoily uh allowed to do signed by President Gerald Ford, the IDA program. Have you ever done that? Have you met with special ed kids and their parents? Yes, I have.
▶ 1:47:32And I was very involved in Special Olympics for a good time and started that program in my in my prior profession and was astounded at all of uh of the programs that that we need for those students and uh very very heart rendering sometimes the stories with those parents. So when President Ford signed that and bipartisan bill uh the federal government promised in 1974 if memory serves me uh that we would pay 40% of IDA. Do you know what that number is now and historically has been?
▶ 1:48:02I believe that Congress has appropriated no more than about 18% at this particular point for that program. 18% at a high end. It's more like 10 to 12%. Yeah. I think in 2025 it was I'm just checking my numbers now. It was about 10.7%. So help me understand. We're going to cut thousands of people who help provide these services but don't get paid enough and there not enough of them. and we give more control to local government.
▶ 1:48:29But how do they have control when they never got the resources that they needed? I've had superintendents tell me that we've put more money into schools in California over the years. They could take all of that money and put in a special education. It still wouldn't be enough to make up for the lack of investment from the federal government based on a bill that was signed by a Republican president. Well, but that's not from the Department of Education. That's the appropriation coming from Congress. So I think that's up to you sir.
▶ 1:48:58I where does that money go to? And the department of education is a key part of giving them the best practices so they can understand how to serve the people at the local level. It's fine to say we were going to give it back to local control which I completely agree with. uh it's fine to say it's going to go back to the states, but they have to have the resources under a federal statute to perform the requirements under the federal statute, which I assume given your background uh and working with special ed kids, you want them to get that.
▶ 1:49:27We know we all benefit from having specialed kids get the support. And specifically, um, does the department intend in eliminating the you talked about parent involvement, uh, the parent man the congressionally mandated parent training and information centers? Are you going to continue to support those? And who's going to support those? Well, sir, as I said, the idea funding uh is level funded. There have been there have been no uh no cuts in that. It's going directly as it has before.
▶ 1:49:57So without changes from us, I you know, having run businesses, I I think we're just having a communication problem. How can you say your level of funding, but you're cutting staff and sending it back to local government without the funding? Seems like a contradiction to me. With all due respect, I don't know what secretary I don't know what you mean by I'm cutting staff relative to states and how they are handling IDA funding and how they are pro taking that uh those dollars into their schools.
▶ 1:50:27The the the staff that we've cut uh you know at Department of Education, let let me just reiterate what I said before. We are totally in compliance with all of our statutory obligations. Oh, I'm told I have extra time because they messed up a clock. I'm sure it's a plot, Mr. Chairman, but um I would love to continue the conversation. I we clearly don't understand one another and maybe I'm I'm responsible for part of that.
▶ 1:50:53I don't understand as a former business owner how you can eliminate the Department of Education or attempt to judge says you're not. You cannot do that. By the way, are you going to comply with what the judge has ordered? I will but uh let let me remind you that IDA was in existence before the department of education. I believe it started in 1965 and was distributed to the states and I think it would continue to be distributed uh if there was no department of education. I would respectfully disagree.
▶ 1:51:21You have to have people with expertise in order to implement the law. And I know at least in the case that I've spent a lot of time with special ed kids and their families, they rely on the best practices supplied at a national level so that they can perform at a local level. They came from somewhere before the department of education. So those people are ma'am that's the reason we started the program is because they were suffering and failing. I think now that gentleman's time is finally expired, we've got it back on track. So thank you. Thanks gentlemen.
▶ 1:51:50I yield to the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Allen. Uh, thank you, Madam Secretary, for your um work on behalf of the uh all the parents and children of this country. I've been very impressed with your work. Uh, you know, during my time in Congress, I've been a staunch advocate for school choice.
▶ 1:52:16uh every child and every family is unique in their own way and when it comes to learning it's it's no different. In fact uh in every public school that my children have attended uh my wife and I have gotten very involved in that process and um it it makes a difference with uh with the parents getting involved. We've seen an explosion of interest in school choice.
▶ 1:52:42And as I'm sure you know, uh, even in the last few months, states such as Tennessee, South Carolina, Idaho, Wyoming, and Texas are considering implementing school choice legislation. Uh, however, all these success stories, uh, many states refuse to even consider school choice. Uh, many states seem insistent on, uh, trapping kids in fa failing schools.
▶ 1:53:07Uh, in a country where school choice has already been implemented in many areas with great success, including the 12th district of Georgia, why do so many states refuse to even consider Well, I think you'd have to ask the the governors and the superintendent of education in those particular states. That clearly is a that's a state function. Important question is very important question. They should answer.
▶ 1:53:34I I can tell you that what we are starting to see and why you see more states now looking at school choice options is because our education system right now is failing our students. Yes. Well, we're spending the most money and getting the the you know 30th in the world.
▶ 1:53:50I mean and so I think governors who were being inv uh innovative on their own are looking at different programs in their states and they are seeing the success rates returning to classical education in some states where uh the science of reading has been so incredibly successful like the miracle of Mississippi that we've looked at in the recent NAPE scores for the uh for the state of Louisiana we have seen that they've had the greatest improvement uh in their scores relative to others.
▶ 1:54:18So now there's a competitive factor going on among the states and those who are recognizing what's worked starting to look at it and adopt and say maybe we ought to take another look at this. Exactly. Because if you're going to compete in economic development and and business growth and job growth in this country, you got to have a workforce, an educated workforce.
▶ 1:54:37And it's more important than ever uh because the the workforce today uh is very technical and has to have a degree of education to deal with uh all of the digital aspects of production and everything else. Um as the co uh getting on to uh higher education the the cost of college continues to rise.
▶ 1:55:01It's imperative students graduating from high school know that there are many plan paths to a career and not every career requires degrees. Having built a small business, uh I have experienced firsthand how hard it is to find skilled and qualified workers. Uh we got to bridge that gap. And um I I was proud to vote for the one big beautiful bill which included two big pale policies.
▶ 1:55:29First, the bill reinvested billions to close the current PEL shortfall. Second, it opened up PEL to highquality short-term programs. Can you talk more about why this administration supports short-term pay and what such a program would do for our workforce? Well, it just um you not not everyone can afford even the two-year community college.
▶ 1:55:50So short-term PEL grants, which are 8 to 14 weeks, I believe, 8 to 15 weeks, um provide those opportunities to learn and gain a skill and get into the workforce much faster. It's good for employees. It's good for employers to get them into the economy faster. So the short-term um your workforce pill grant I'm a strong supporter of. Great.
▶ 1:56:15Um, what changes, if any, do you believe need to be made to Perkins reauthorization to improve outcomes for students? Well, I just think that we have to um we have to have a better alignment, you know, with the Perkins programs, you know, with what what our workforce innovation programs are. I just don't think they're aligned enough and we're holding them accountable enough for those. And I think we can close that gap because it's very worthwhile. Right. Good.
▶ 1:56:43Well, I'm all with you on the uh competition among states. States compete for economic development and uh and states are paying closer attention to workforce development because it's critical as far as economic development and thank you for your service to this country. Thank you, sir. I yield back. I thank the gentleman. I now recognize the new member of the committee for our first round of questioning on this committee. Representative Anserie, thank you so much for being here.
▶ 1:57:10As Secretary McMahon, I agree that for many students in America, our education system is absolutely failing them. This is especially true for lowincome families and for folks in rural communities. But that's not because of too much federal oversight or the DEI policies like your administration claims. It's because in many states, like the state I represent in Arizona, we have woefully underfunded our public education system.
▶ 1:57:38Now, your administration wants to dismantle the Department of Education. I'm wondering if you can respond briefly. Do you believe there is a constitutional or operational path to eliminating the Department of Education? And if so, what is the timeline and process? Well, certainly uh in in fact, when President Trump issued his executive order, his executive order um indicated for me to start dismantling the Department of Education lawfully.
▶ 1:58:05Uh we both know as does everyone in this room that department of education cannot be dismantled without the approval of Congress. And so that that would be the path we would have to take. And I said in my confirmation hearing that I wanted to work with Congress uh so that we could arrive at a good plan to show how what the Department of Education is doing could be handled with other agencies and that we could see improvements for education throughout the country.
▶ 1:58:32And and what risk did you weigh for public schools and universities if federal education funding is gutted or devolved to the states? Well, federal education wouldn't necessarily be gutted. I believe there would be more money to go to the states without the bureaucracy of the department of education. Uh when you think about uh you know how many people that are there are at the department and some of those services can be handled by other agencies.
▶ 1:58:58uh there would be less money taken out of the overall budget, more money to be available to go to the states. So So here's the thing, Madam Secretary, and why I strongly believe that you're wrong. One big risk I see right off the bat is that some states, again, the state I represent, Arizona, have an abysmal track record of managing education. Last year, Arizona was dead last in a national list of the best states for public education.
▶ 1:59:23We have some of the lowest teacher salaries, low test scores, and the highest studenttoteer ratio in the country. After years of cutting funding for public education, Republicans in Arizona have tried to fix our education system with universal school vouchers. Secretary McMahon, do you support expanding school school choice vouchers nationwide?
▶ 1:59:46Well, one thing I would like to bring to your attention, which which you may already know, is that the federal government only provides about 8 to 10% of the total education budget to states. Do you support expanding? It's a yes or no question. These are these are policies that are that are established by the states. Secretary, thank you. Uh should adjust and provide their own education philosophy.
▶ 2:00:10When it comes to to vouchers, would you say that you support taxpayers subsidizing wealthy students tuition at expensive private schools? Uh, I think that uh again the these are issues within the states, you know, to look at. It's a yes or no. No, there's a school choice. Support the subsidizing for wealthy students. There there are issues within states that they should look at. Okay, that sounds like a yes.
▶ 2:00:33Do you support those vouchers being used for things like expensive ski trips, $1,000 Lego sets, or pianos for individual families? Of course not. So, I I heard the co my colleague from the other side of the aisle just previously talking about how wonderful uh vouchers are, and I just want to share a couple articles, and I'm sure you all can't see from here, but these are all from the last couple of years in Arizona. Uh, it's titled Parents of Private Voucher Students Spent over $1 million of public money buying Lego sets.
▶ 2:01:04Another one, Arizona Empowerment Scholarships, what $34 million bought. Ranges from tuition to trampoline parks. A lot of waste, fraud, and abuse happening. And another analysis, more than half of ESA students come from highincome zip codes. So in Arizona, Secretary, this is exactly what's happening.
▶ 2:01:2777% of those vouchers have gone to students in the wealthiest zip codes to fund their expensive private schools and luxury items, all while defunding public schools that the rest of our students attend. Does it sound to you like Arizona's voucher program is improving our education system? It sounds like you've got an issue in Arizona that you should address with your governor. And that's ex No, it's actually our state legislature that is ballooning the state and all of that.
▶ 2:01:55So in Arizona, the issue has been a disaster. And this is exactly why a federal department of education is so vital. School vouchers have decimated our budget by $1 billion. Again, Republican controlled state legislature for I think 60ome years, costing taxpayers way more than simply raising school funding would have. So you have a clear test case in Arizona which has failed miserably.
▶ 2:02:22I'm not sure why we would want to subject the rest of the country to the same problems. The gentle lady's time is expired. Yields back. And I recognize the gentle woman from Illinois, Miss Miller. Well, good morning, Secretary McMahon, and thank you for the great work that you and President Trump are doing to reform the Department of Education. Uh the last four years under the Biden administration have been a disaster for the public education system, for parental rights, and for student safety.
▶ 2:02:52And the most racist thing that's been going on in our country has been the unanimous support of the Democrats and the teachers union to force inner city children, black and brown children, into failing schools while denying their parents the opportunity to seek alternative options. Children as young as kindergarten have been subjected to drag queen story hours and pro-LGBTQIA2s plus curriculums.
▶ 2:03:20Shockingly, the Department of Education had the audacity to call parents domestic terrorists and proceeded to investigate and intimidate them into submission. Scott Smith was arrested. State Department of Education. The the Biden Department of Education. The Biden Department. Yes.
▶ 2:03:40Scott Smith was arrested at a Lowden County school board meeting over voicing his outrage that his 15-year-old daughter was raped by a boy dressed as a girl in a public school bathroom and then the school sought to cover it up.
▶ 2:03:54Now, after being soundly defeated last November, Democrats and states like Maine, California, and my home state of Illinois continue to defy federal law by forcing our girls to compete against biological men and change with them in locker rooms.
▶ 2:04:12Thankfully, President Trump and yourself are taking action to stop this madness and are striving toward the ultimate goal of returning education to the states and to the parents where it belongs. So, Madame Secretary, thank you for your recent response to my letters addressing Title 9 violations in Dearbornne and Neapville, Illinois.
▶ 2:04:37Could you please elaborate on what the Department of Education is doing to investigate similar violations in other school districts and whether their fund federal funding will be rescended for failing to comply with federal law? Thank you very much. And um we are indeed investigating um you know many cases that come up under title nine.
▶ 2:04:59I mean I I was uh you know informed I think it was yesterday that in Colorado uh there was a you know in as part of the public school system on school trips that there were boys sleeping perhaps in beds boys who I'm sorry boys who were identifying as girls sleeping in the same bed with girls on these class trips and parents were not even notified.
▶ 2:05:28I just think that that's incredibly wrong. That is a title nine violation that we'll be uh you know investigating. There was a you know I think there's in Wyoming a college you know that had um again boys joining girls sorarities again title n violations. We we are going to investigate them uh and we will look at whatever options you know that we have available whether it is to funding some of those uh programs.
▶ 2:05:54So yes, thank you and thank you for fighting hard for school choice. I actually homeschooling is very near and dear to me. I actually I'm an teacher and I ended up home educating my seven children. Most of them have chosen to do the same. As parents saw the filth being taught to their children during the CO 19 lockdowns, many began homeschooling.
▶ 2:06:18Recently, Democrat-run states like Illinois are seeking to significantly limit the right of parents to home educate their children. What can the Department of Education do to ensure that this fundamental right is protected?
▶ 2:06:32Well, that's clearly one of the things that um that that President Trump has talked about in what I've addressed earlier uh you know in in my testimony today and that is that the the president absolutely does believe that all children should have a right, you know, to an excellent education.
▶ 2:06:49And they should have that choice and that that choice should be supported whether it is homeschooling, private schools, public schools, charter schools, all of those uh should re should receive their uh you know their funding and that states should look at the choice options. Thank you. Competition makes everything better. As I mentioned earlier, the Biden administration launched an assault on parental rights in education.
▶ 2:07:13Aside from curriculums, according to parents def defending education, at least 20,000 schools in 1100 districts have policies that prevent faculty and staff from disclosing a student's gender identity to its parents without the students permission. What is the Department of Education doing to hold these schools accountable?
▶ 2:07:36Well, if I'm if I'm not incorrect, that falls under, you know, Furpa, which uh which clearly is a statute that says that parents have the right to the information that is contained in their in their children's records. And I absolutely believe that to be true. Thank you. Thank the gentle lady. Mr. Chair, I uh could I ask unanimous consent to enter three articles into the without objection? Okay.
▶ 2:08:04First, parents of private voucher students spent over $1 million of public money buying Lego sets. Two, Arizona empowerment scholarships with $34 million bought. And three, analysis. More than half of ESA students come from highincome zip codes. Thank you. Without objection, they are submitted. I now recognize gentleman from New York, Mr. Manion. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Secretary McMahon. Uh, today's hearing is an important one.
▶ 2:08:31Since the start of the administration, students, families, and educators across the country have been incredibly concerned about the direction that you and the president are attempting to take both in K12 and higher education. And your attempts to weaken or close the Department of Education are acts of recklessness and have already done significant damage.
▶ 2:08:54Um, there's a lot I'd like to ask about, but in your uh fiscal year 26 budget request, I want to discuss programs serving students with disabilities. Your budget recommends consolidating seven programs under the IDA into a single block grant to states. Uh so you're specifically talking about eliminating special education programs for preschools, teacher preparation, parent information centers, technical assistance, and educational technology.
▶ 2:09:25I was a teacher of AP Biology and Chemistry and 15 to1 living environment. I'm also the parent of a student with a disability and I acknowledge that you intend to maintain the overall funding level for IDA under this consolidated grant. But structure matters. These programs were created independently for a very good reason to ensure proper oversight to serve different populations and to meet the full range of needs for students with disabilities.
▶ 2:09:54Madam Secretary, how can you assure us that states will maintain sufficient support for all of these critical areas like preschool, special education, and parental assistance if the federal government no longer requires them to do so do so under separate targeted Well, I think funding under the grants to states program would continue to be allocated to the states and eleas in accordance with section 611.
▶ 2:10:24So that will remain. What we found uh is that we have so many of these different diverse programs and if there are like I think there's six of them in total uh that would come under a block grant and and states would have greater flexibility in terms of making sure that those that IDA funding went to where it it should be.
▶ 2:10:42you know, the whole I'm sure you know probably better than anyone uh or as well as anyone that the process of writing grants, the people you have to hire, uh the strings that are attached, you know, when when individual grants, you know, do come in is really burdensome and expensive.
▶ 2:11:01And so the hope is and the goal is that by giving this in terms of the one uh grant bucket if you will that there are less strings attached and it affords greater flexibility uh for states to put that money where it's needed. If a school district does not follow uh the uh proper mechanisms for administering that grant for the students to receive the individualized services that they need.
▶ 2:11:27Is there any specific accountability measures that will occur coming out of the Department of Education or any other federal government agency? Um, well, there's also there's always the opportunity of defunding. We don't want to take, you know, any of the tools off the table, but I would like if if there is a specific question. I would always want to look into that and to find out uh exactly. Well, we'd always investigate. If there are reports that this is not being spent the way it's supposed, we'd always investigate.
▶ 2:11:54Um there's been a lot of discussion and questions regarding parental access and parental input. So I was in a classroom for almost 30 years and uh over the course of those 30 years what I saw was the implementation of emails um online grades being able to be accessed by parents, shared decisionmaking committees, an increase in the number of parent teacher conferences and meet the teacher nights.
▶ 2:12:23the ability for students to audio or videotape lessons and teachers themselves providing curriculum online and posting their lessons uh sometimes a video recording of their lessons online. So is it your opinion that over the course of those 30 years that parents have less access to information about their students education? Well, clearly you've made the case for innovative teaching.
▶ 2:12:51And I think that's what we should through our regulations allow teachers to do, and that's teach. Let's take the handcuffs and the red tape of uh compliance with regulations off them and let them do what they want to do, and we will see better results with children. Thank you. Um, should a parent have the ability to opt their child out of a unit on evolution? Yes. Should a school district be able to eliminate evolution from a biology curriculum?
▶ 2:13:20I think that parents should have under under parental rights, I think parents look at curriculum in terms of uh maybe their own ideals, maybe their own uh religious backgrounds and have the opportunity to opt out of a particular course. Thank you, Madam Secretary. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the gentleman. I recognize the subcommittee chairman on early childhood, elementary, and secondary education. and gentleman from California, Mr. Kylie. Hello, Secretary McMahon.
▶ 2:13:47Uh, it was just five months ago that we had a Secretary of Education who was an enthusiastic supporter of shutting down schools during COVID, who was an enthusiastic supporter of forcing two-year-olds to wear masks, who actually encouraged school districts, K12 schools to adopt uh COVID vaccine mandates. We had an administration that investigated parents as domestic terrorists for showing up at schoolboard meetings.
▶ 2:14:11uh that attacked charter schools, that refused to condemn universities for uh caving to the demands of anti-semmites, that set out to destroy uh girls sports, and that saw $200 billion added to education spending while student performance plummeted. Things are a little different now, aren't they? I certainly hope so. But, uh unfortunately, in my state of California, they're the same. Or actually, they're worse, uh than they've ever been.
▶ 2:14:38and you've already taken a number of steps to try to help out students in California. Uh I did just want to highlight a couple other areas where the problems in our state's education system uh may fall within your jurisdiction and upholding the civil rights laws. Uh first is when it comes to charter schools. I know you're a huge supporter of charters and I believe you support the bill I've introduced, the highquality charter schools act. Uh but in California, the governor and the legislature have declared war on charter schools. Uh they're trying to stop new charters from starting.
▶ 2:15:07uh they're trying to shut down high-erforming charters. A particularly egregious example is in Santa Clara. Uh the Office of Education uh told one of the highest performing uh public schools in the state, Bullis Charter School, that unless you engage in outright racial discrimination, uh we're going to non-renew your charter unless you have fewer Asian students. We're going to non-renew your charter. And then there was something similar that happened in Oakland Unified, uh where a charter school actually was non-renewed for similar reasons. So that's charter schools. The second issue is ethnic studies.
▶ 2:15:37So the state has seen fit to adopt a new ethnic studies graduation requirement for high school. But some districts have gone above and beyond and are already offering what's being called a liberated ethnic studies. Now uh both the model curriculum and these more specific liberated ethnic studies curriculums have been condemned as being overtly anti-semitic.
▶ 2:15:56Uh we saw an example of this actually in the last congress when the uh superintendent of Berkeley Unified testified here that she thought a slide uh showing that students that the the expression from the river to the sea is a valid perspective. She saw no problem with that. So I know that you may not want to com comment on particular investigations that may or may not be under consideration, but do you see these as areas in which you might be able to help us out either one of them?
▶ 2:16:21Well, a lot of that uh definitely still does fall within the local or or state jurisdiction for schools, but I think in terms of universities, you've already seen how the uh Department of Education will come in for uh you know, for title six violations. And so, we would continue to do that. Well, thank you very much. And I did want to say just a word about the situation at universities uh as well. Uh now, I have zero sympathy for Harvard.
▶ 2:16:46uh they were rated as having the very worst protections for free speech of any university in the country actually any university in the history of the survey. Uh and then when it came to uh anti-semitism I think it's actually underappreciated uh the horrors that happened on that campus we've heard from uh Jewish students at that university here who have testified how they were afraid to leave their dorms. How if they did uh they were harassed they were physically assaulted. you had pro- Hamas thugs who would follow them to class and monitor their movements.
▶ 2:17:16Uh all the while the university failed to protect them instead catering to the demands uh of their tormentors. So uh I have very little sympathy uh for the university and I think when they say oh we've changed some things or we did a task force uh clearly inadequate uh what happened on that campus reviving one of the most perhaps uh retrograde and ancient prejudice in world history and becoming a hotbed for it on their campus uh that reflects a fundamental sickness that
▶ 2:17:46requires fundamental reform. So I think that what the administration is doing is absolutely necessary. The one point I would just raise is I wonder a little bit what the endgame uh is here. Uh you know our universities have had a lot of problems in recent years and decades. They cost too much. They deliver too little value uh to students and they've incubated a lot of the problems we have more broadly as a country. But throughout our history they've actually been huge national assets.
▶ 2:18:12you know, it's a it's a great thing for our country that we've had uh universities that lead the world and that the best and brightest from all around the world want to study at and then contribute uh to our country. So, so the the word of caution I might just add is that when it comes to the ultimate goal here, I I hope that the goal is not to reduce these institutions to a shadow of them for their former selves.
▶ 2:18:34uh but rather to revive the ideals that used to guide universities uh and to restore them to being national assets again uh rather than the liabilities that they become and I'd be very happy to help in any way that I can with that goal. Thank you very much. And I'd like to work with you on that. Thanks very much. Yield back. I thank the gentleman. I recognize the gentle lady from Connecticut, Miss Hayes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Secretary. Welcome to our committee. It's interesting. I took a lot of notes.
▶ 2:19:04I had prepared questions, but I think I'm going in a very different direction. Um, we've heard other colleagues talk about the NAPE scores, and I heard you say that the president was angered and embarrassed by these, and I think we all should be, but when you disagregate those scores, they clearly show that low-income students score significantly lower than their white and higher income peers.
▶ 2:19:24And that is mostly in part to ongoing disparities in educational access and quality, which makes much of what I'm hearing today that much more relevant. You mentioned Connecticut. We both come from the state of Connecticut. Connecticut relies on property taxes to fund education. And we have the large one of the largest income gaps in the nation.
▶ 2:19:47Which means by design or default, low-income students face multiple challenges, including limited access to resources and opportunities outside of schools, which is why I don't understand many of the decisions made in this budget. One of my colleagues asked um about collecting data on family composition and background. The Department of Education, Office of Civil Rights, is mandated by law to do that.
▶ 2:20:10I was pleased to hear you say that states do not I mean the federal the department of education does not control curriculum instruction instructional materials the teachers that are hired which makes your words contradictory because every argument you have is to put local control back into the into the states but states already have local control as anyone who has any knowledge or background of education would already know the role of the department of education would be the civil
▶ 2:20:40rights enforcement of those local controls. Which again, the irony of this budget zeroing out American history and civic education programs when you couldn't even answer a question about Ruby Bridges or the election of President Biden, which are as basic as it gets. So, I really really don't understand it.
▶ 2:21:00But you are making the argument for me because when you respond to questions from my colleagues by saying that sounds like an issue for legislators, that is why the office of civil rights is necessary because state legislators made the decision that Ruby Bridges did not have the right to a free and appropriate highquality public education.
▶ 2:21:21So you, Madam Secretary, are actually making the argument for the role of the department, not to dictate local curriculum instruction or instructional materials, but to make sure that those things are carried out by the department. I mean that states follow the law, that they are doing those things. So 49 million children in this country receive public education services. About three million children are in charter schools.
▶ 2:21:50there are not enough charter school slots. So, my questions are mainly focused on what about those other 46 million children? So, I'm going to I mean I it it's mind-blowing. I hear you talk about safety, keeping students safe on school campuses, but not a word about the 390,000 students who have been affected by gun violence.
▶ 2:22:12I was in the classroom on the day Sandy Hook happened and the federal government came in with almost $2 million to rebuild that community and provide programs for the surrounding communities. In your opening, I heard you mention uh student athletes and LGBTQ students twice, not one word. And even when my colleague asked you if you thought it was a public health crisis, you can't answer questions that affect the majority of students. So, I'm not really sure.
▶ 2:22:39I mean, I try to I I am an educator by nature. I try to be supportive of what the Department of Education does because I need for you to succeed for my students to succeed. But when you come in and say your final mission is to eliminate the department, it it says to me that the 46 million children that are not receiving services do not matter.
▶ 2:22:59I've ran out most of my time, but this bill defunds literacy programs, eliminates 21st century community learning center, eliminates preschool grants for children with disabilities, uh uh reduces funding for career and technical education, like all of these things. I'm going to ask you two really quick questions. Do you think that Holocaust education in our schools is a DEI program? There's no card for that. That's just yes or no.
▶ 2:23:29I can look at whatever card I want. Holocaust education, is it a DEI? You can have a press conference to say whatever you want. I just need a quick answer to this. You're siloquated. Is Holocaust because this is my time. Is Holocaust education a DEI program? No. Is African-American studies a DEI program? I think I answered that with one. I'm asking it again. We should be just yes or no. We should be able to teach courses. My point is they are DEI programs, both of them, because students need diversity, equity, and inclusion to understand their environments.
▶ 2:23:59So, both Holocaust education and the teaching of African-American uh history are important, which is why the state of Connecticut requires it in our social studies curriculum. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't support one without supporting the other. and looking at what happens in the schools and actually deferring to teachers, parents who are on curriculum committees, local boards of education in states who actually do the hard work.
▶ 2:24:25The gentle listening to what they say would be incredibly helpful in this but it's time to move on back recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Madam Secretary, for coming today. We really appreciate your time. Uh, I spent eight years of my life on the school board, three years as a school board president of a public city school. I know this subject fairly well. I was in the Ohio Senate for six years, vice chair of education.
▶ 2:24:53Um, we all know that our school systems in this country have a severe problem. When you look at school systems like Cleveland, Youngsttown, Akran, Canton, Detroit, and Buffalo, we have school districts that are taking 30 to $35,000 per year to educate a child that gets a high school diploma with a fourth grade reading level. There's a major problem in in our school districts.
▶ 2:25:15Uh some of the small school districts like my school district, Leonia, we were able to educate our kids for about 8 to$9,000 a year and produce 11th or 12th day read reading level. So there's a problem. I know the opposition party loves the concept of throwing more money at it. So, let's do that because that's what President Trump just did. President Trump on a K12 simplified funding program gave an extra $2 billion to all the public school districts throughout the country.
▶ 2:25:41And it even gets better than that because the Biden Harrison administration spent more than a million dollars on DEI grants throughout the country. So, if I'm doing my math right, that's $ three and a half billion dollars that we could take from the federal government, which will never have a trickle down effect on a local school board because I was on it for eight years. So, whenever you hang out with the treasur of a local public school board, they're petrified to see what's going on with the federal funding. Where is it going?
▶ 2:26:08And the opposition party thinks it's so romantic that the money stays here in Washington instead of ever going to the grassroots home rule effect. So, in Ohio, we love home rule. So, I'm excited to see these extra billions of dollars coming back to the local school districts. So, Madam Secretary, my question would be, now that President Trump is giving back funding to the states and more efficiently, what results do you expect that American students could produce in the next four years under the Trump administration?
▶ 2:26:37Well, it is is certainly my hope uh that as we look at states being more focused and having the authority for uh more choice in education that we're going to see our scores go up. But, you know, we're going to we have to have dedicated teachers, which I believe we do. And I think we need to take the handcuffs off our teachers so that they have the ability to be innovative in their classrooms.
▶ 2:27:01I think it if we look at some of the programs that have been successful in other states as I mentioned earlier return to uh the science of reading uh and look at how phonics has made such a difference in getting back to some of that same kind of curriculum that we used to have. I've seen it work in schools. I have visited schools where they're doing that more classical education.
▶ 2:27:25So what I would like to see and I hope we will see and I think we will see are state departments of education adopting more of those kinds of programs to make sure that a we get literacy in place that we also uh have the ability to have school choice and that states totally take this funding that is coming to them and see the areas of where they need to focus more of their dollars and direct that spending into those areas.
▶ 2:27:55I love those words. Uh, in particular in the state of Ohio, our speaker of the house, Matt Huffman, and I did a lot of ed choice programs in the state. And this is coming from a guy I'm I'm a graduate of a public school school where member eight years of a public school, but we created a voucher program which helps urban kids more than anything else. When you have a Cleveland City School that is just falling to pieces, you have to give urban moms and dads the opportunity with a voucher program to put your child wherever it could be.
▶ 2:28:23And what that adds is actually competition within the school districts. You know, you have open enrollment, you have all these different uh obstacles to schoolboard members. So, it's up to them to have a good uh you know, scholastics program, have a good athletic program, and to be inviting to people. I know in my old public school that I was the president of, they started a trades program within the school. So, maybe a four-year degree and $100,000 in debt isn't what you're supposed to be. Maybe you could become a welder and make $100,000 without debt. But we have to have different paths to get outside the box.
▶ 2:28:52And I think it's an exciting time for you be the madam secretary at this point. Do you think that we can incorporate all this voucher program and this ed choice and even have better public schools and and all of it could come together? Am I wrong? I I really think we do need to focus No, you're not wrong.
▶ 2:29:09And I do think we need to focus on making sure that our cultural viewpoint relative to education is not always that you have to have a four-year degree because there are other ways to have a great fulfillment uh you know of a career and provide for your families with skill-based uh training plumbers, electricians, HVAC, not only that but technology developments that we're seeing. And we ought to start that more middle schools, high schools leading into those career programs.
▶ 2:29:38And I think that's one of the things that our workforce development programs will show success for doing. Thank you so much, Madam Secretary. And with that, I yield my time back, chair. I thank the gentleman. I recognize now the gentle lady from Michigan, Miss Stevens. Great. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. And um Madame Secretary, I I realize you're in the cabinet with the president of the president and you're the first cabinet secretary I've uh been able to speak with this this term.
▶ 2:30:08And if you could please pass along to the president that 55 tariff announcements in 100 days are killing us in Michigan. I know that the president came to Michigan to celebrate his first 100 days in office. I know this is outside technically the purview of your administration. Um we see hiring on hold. We see suppliers, small businesses. They are telling me today that um operations are going to shut down.
▶ 2:30:34And certainly we then get the question of unemployment and job training and apprenticeship programs. Now the Department of Education was passed into law in a close vote in 1979. Four years prior to that, um the uh House of Representatives signed into law the um Investing in Disabilities Education Act, IDAIDA.
▶ 2:30:58We want to see special education fully funded in the United States of America, and Michigan uh just as of 2023 missed out on $700 million in IDA funding. I have worked so closely with my school districts um all across my state frankly on the missing pieces of their budget from special uh e education funding gaps.
▶ 2:31:25Can you speak to some of the changes that are going on in the administration or in your very agency right now and if there is an opportunity for Michigan to access more uh special education dollars? Well, um, as I testified to earlier, you know, the the, uh, IDA funding is going to continue, uh, level funding going into into the different states.
▶ 2:31:52Now, there are six programs uh that are going to be consolidated into uh a single stream funding that I think you could apply for uh in those states and help get the governor or the superintendent of education to direct more of those funds. Yeah.
▶ 2:32:09And while I don't agree with the the reckless language of shutting down the Department of Education and the dismantling and the job loss, and I know some of these individuals in Michigan who have lost their Department of Education jobs, we will gladly take every special education dollar uh that you can give us.
▶ 2:32:26And then as as you know, TRIO grants are grants that help uh lowincome uh first generation college veteran and disabled students who we care about so much uh apply and successfully complete college. And several schools in Michigan use TRIO grants to support students. So why did the administration um decide to eliminate the TRIO grants program and what's happening to that money?
▶ 2:32:52Well, TRIGO grants for the funding that's in place now are are are continuing for, you know, for the balance of of this fiscal year. They are not they're not u they have been zeroed out in the next budget.
▶ 2:33:05what we found with TRIO and looking at and hey I I think and I've heard testimony uh I've heard I heard a couple of senators even yesterday say that they know people that benefited from TRIO and I'm sure that there are many people who have and but there are other programs in place that would also help students who are now being benefited by TRIO.
▶ 2:33:24We also found out that the TRIO programs, you know, they uh they've been put through with a lot of heavy lobbying and the Department of Education really doesn't have the ability to go in and assess total accountability and that's how it's written. Well, if if that's the case too, we can look at expanding PEL, which many of us, you know, support. We need to see Pell Grant expanded.
▶ 2:33:48We we obviously want to continue to that discussion with you and and and and and on the record, but with my remaining time and as you are a cabinet secretary for uh the second time in a row in a in the uh administration of President Donald J. Trump, please just know we are competing with China. We are competing on a world stage. And a place where I am so privileged to call home is right in the middle of that competition. We need these engineering jobs. We need these apprenticeship programs.
▶ 2:34:18We we certainly want to see our government function to the best of its ability and deliver the standards and and and and dare I say the efficiency that our taxpayers pay into. But when we see tax bills that are cutting investments in manufacturing, new manufacturing, 40 new plants in Michigan, when we are fighting for all the technology talent we can get, we need you to double down on this. We need your partnership. We would like to show this to you firsthand.
▶ 2:34:48I do a program called Manufacturing Monday. I visit hundreds of small businesses over and over and over again. I have real relationships with these people and the students who are in first robotics. And yes, Michigan has the largest number of first robotics teams, which we would also love to showcase to you and your your your office. But ma'am, please tell this president slow down on what he is doing to autos, our manufacturing sector, and to consumer costs. Thank you, and I yield back. Thank you, gentle lady.
▶ 2:35:18I recognize a gentleman from Guam, Mr. Moan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam Secretary, thank you very much for your testimony. I'd like to bring your attention to the territories now. And uh as you know, from Guam, like Guam, we often uh encounter unique challenges. Uh we have small economics uh and we have a geographical isolation. It takes me 20 hours to fly back home doortodoor. Uh plus you you change a date line.
▶ 2:35:48In fact, I think it's like 2:30 or so in the morning tomorrow in Guam. So we're way out there. We also have devastating natural disasters. We just won't go through super typhoons. It's it's like a gigantic uh tornado happening in some of the states, but it it hovers over the entire island. Uh plus we have the military buildup with the Indopaccom situation.
▶ 2:36:11So my question is how does the administration plan to invest in American students in the outlying areas where the roles and responsibilities of the federal government are much different than that in the states? Well, what I would like to do if I'm if I may, you know, outside of the hearing, there are specific areas that we could talk about uh and how what my position at education may be able to be helpful for you. I'd welcome that opportunity to have more thorough discussion with you.
▶ 2:36:41I appreciate that. And we need to get you to Guam as well. That would be great. Uh going on to another question then again specifically on Guam. We often fail to recruit and retain special education specialists. understand that's nationwide, but making it burdensome for our special needs students to attend public and even charter schools. So, how can this administration support Guam in addressing these gaps?
▶ 2:37:05Again, that really is more local use of funding and not uh not controlled by the Department of Education. When we get to our meeting, we'll also discuss uh how often uh we face financial hardships in the island when it comes to infrastructure improvements, circum uh uh and academic competitiveness. How does this administration plan to invest and uplift these students? Another concern of mine for the islands and many other territories. Yeah.
▶ 2:37:33Again, I I look forward to our meeting to discuss those. Okay. Uh let's see. Okay. Just finally, another one for our topics of discussion. As you're aware, Guam often struggles with the needed infrastructure upgrades. Uh our storms and our cost of um of getting materials to the island is tremendous. Um and especially with our public schools, it's it's very costly.
▶ 2:37:55And so, how does the administration, another one we can discuss, plan to address critical issues like these, ensuring that we can make our educational institution in the outlining areas worldclass like all American institutions should be? Well, I I really do look forward to our meeting. I I I think I can address things better by having sitting down and having a better understanding of your issues. Okay.
▶ 2:38:17Uh likewise, when we get to our meeting, we'll talk about the um shortages of medical uh physicians and nurses, we know nationwide, but even so more stressful uh for the territories. Uh in addition, um the how the skinny budget has affected our special education funding. Uh likewise uh for skilled trade and workers and highskilled degrees and medical professions how we can better that for our territories.
▶ 2:38:45Uh pretty much I'm looking forward to a long discussion with you a as soon as possible madam secretary. I appreciate and I'll make myself available for that. That'd be wonderful and we'll get you a trip to Guam. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the gentleman. I recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Casar. Secretary McMahon, thank you for joining us here today.
▶ 2:39:09Right now, the administration that you are a part of is pushing for a massive tax break for billionaires, paid for by massive cuts to health care and food assistance for everyday Americans, including to the children that you're charged with educating. You yourself and your family, as a billionaire family of wealth of about $3.2 $2 billion. Can you share with us?
▶ 2:39:36Do you know how much you and your family will receive in tax benefit if this Republican tax proposal gets pushed through? No, I've not sat down and worked with my accountants on what tax I can tell you most. You have a general a general sense taxes went through, I paid more. And and so you think that under this proposal, you will not like the other billionaires get millions or tens of millions of dollars in tax benefit.
▶ 2:40:04I think this is kind of a ridiculous line of No, it's not ridiculous because here's here's what's important. The biggest bill being pushed by your administration uh for your average extremely wealthy person would give about a $4 million benefit. Your family is worth about $3.2 billion. So I imagine that you'd get millions of dollars in benefit from this tax bill. Does that make sense? Is that check out? I don't know. I'd have to let you know.
▶ 2:40:32Let's just ask the member chairman refers to education. I'll refer to that secretary. So, okay, look, there are families watching at home from my district that could lose their health care and they want to know why their health care would get taken away. And what it's paying for is overwhelmingly tax cuts for the wealthiest people in the country. And so, what is what would you spend the $4 million on that you would get a benefit of at least $4 million?
▶ 2:41:02to your educational line of questioning. What would those families in this committee, what would those families who lose their healthcare, who are watching, what would you spend the $4 million on that's worth more than their healthcare? I'm not going to address the questions relative to me personally. I'm here as the Secretary of Education and I'm Okay.
▶ 2:41:22So, as the Secretary of Education, as the Secretary of Education, do you think, yes or no, that kids will be do better off in school if they have health care and their food needs met? Yes or no? Uh, we all do better and children will do better in school if their health needs are met. I agree with that. Good.
▶ 2:41:43And so I guess for those kids, which there's going to be hundreds of thousands or millions of kids that lose their health care, how is it okay that they're going to lose their health care so that billionaires and billionaire families, I'm not just even picking just on you, but billionaire families like your own can get a tax break. What if you don't even know how many millions of dollars it is you'd get? How how is that worth it? I'm I'm not going to respond to your question.
▶ 2:42:12I think the answer is because it's not worth it. It's not if if you got 3.2 billion or 5 billion or10 billion going off the premise that there's going to be healthcare that is going to be removed from these children. I'm not sure that is a correct premise. So I'm every single organization that's looked at this bill knows that millions of people will lose their healthcare.
▶ 2:42:33The latest estimate is at least 11 million people and families because you wouldn't get the enormous savings that the Republican majority on this committee is looking for unless you kick those millions of people off of their healthcare. So, how can we educate our kids if they don't have a roof over their heads? If they can't see a doctor, if they don't have food assistance?
▶ 2:42:56So, I I'll ask you, do you think it's right for kids to not have food to eat at home before they go to class in order to make sure that a billionaire that doesn't even know how many more millions of dollars they're going to get could just get a few million more? I want to make sure that as a secretary of the Department of Education that the president's plan to make uh school choice available to every student in our country is what we follow.
▶ 2:43:25And the president's plan specifically takes money away from those kids. Specifically takes food away from those families. Specifically takes money and sends it to big contractors, big companies, and sends millions of dollars to billionaires like you who don't even know how many extra millions of dollars they're going to get.
▶ 2:43:50Before I was a member of Congress, I helped run an afterchool program at a high school where many of the kids were getting driven to school in the same car that they slept in at night. They didn't have food. Many of them couldn't see a doctor. They struggled in class. We should be passing a bill to make sure that they've got a decent classroom experience, a roof over their head, food, and healthcare. Not a bill that just funnels who knows in your opinion how many millions of dollars to billionaires like those in President Trump's. Gentlemen's time expired.
▶ 2:44:19And now recognize gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Rder. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Secretary McMahon, so much for taking the time to come to testify before us today. First of all, I'd like to uh apologize for the contemptable way that my Democrat colleague treated uh you.
▶ 2:44:37Um, I just want to say parathetically that absolutely I'm a physician who has taken care of Medicaid insured patients for over 30 years and absolutely zero children will lose their health care under the big beautiful reconciliation bill. Uh, but I'd like to um discuss with you um the uh some of the damage done by the Biden um to education policy in the United States.
▶ 2:45:04One of the worst policies, of course, was the Department of Education's um treatment of Title 9 regulation. It of course radically reinterpreted sex to include gender identity and sexual orientation, which resulted in men infiltrating women's sports, much to the detriment of fairness and safety in an area where women have made enormous progress over the years. Thankfully, a federal court vacated that regulation earlier this year.
▶ 2:45:32But there was another aspect of Biden's Title 9 regulation that was also damaging but didn't receive as much attention and that is the erosion of due process during Title 9 adjudication of misconduct on campus. The Biden administration uniformly lowered evidence the evidence standard required for a student to be convicted of misconduct in such an adjudication. This is serious and federal courts have found that some students were wrongfully disciplined or even expelled in that process.
▶ 2:46:02Um, the Trump administration has worked to to uh to uh to to uh improve this situation preserving the integrity of the process for sexual misconduct victims and at the same time discouraging false accusations because if false accusations are tolerated uh it weakens the voice of actual victims.
▶ 2:46:22Um, I believe we need a permanent legislative solution to protect uh victims of misconduct and uh and those accused as opposed to pingponging back and forth with changes in administration. Um, unfortunately, the Biden administration was not alone in disrespecting the Title 9 due process rights over the years.
▶ 2:46:44uh after a title nine adjudication that occurred um uh after Oberlin College changed its schools procedures, the Sixth Circuit of the US Court of Appeals strongly rep reprimanded the c the college noting that in this country we determined guilt or innocence individually rather than collectively based on one's identification with some demographic group and concluded the institution's expulsion of a student was arguably inexplicable.
▶ 2:47:13simil a similar case out of Purdue University where the university refused to allow the accused to see the evidence against him. Secretary McMahon, would you uh could you talk about the efforts of uh the department to ensure that education and educational institutions know their obligations under Title 9 to protect the due process rights of the of their students as well as the victims of Well,
▶ 2:47:43certainly I think this administration has shown that it is absolutely committed, you know, to protecting uh, you know, Title N, not only with keeping men out of women's sports because we do know that women are are absolutely girls and women are absolutely put at a disadvantage when men are allowed to compete just simply because they can they can miss uh scholastic opportunities as well as for their own personal safety. Right.
▶ 2:48:10So I absolutely believe that we're correct in enforcing those those title nine efforts and the president uh has issued an executive order to that effect as well as well as the fact that I do believe that it is covered under uh title n. So and the due process portion at our universities I think is very important that we continue to look at that to make sure as you said that victims and those who are accused are protected under due process. No, I think that's I think that's correct.
▶ 2:48:38And I I think too many times um these Title N adjudications are run by uh folks of of a uh of of a DEI bent and many times there can be an a guilty until proven innocent uh assumption and a lack of due process.
▶ 2:48:56So, I thank I I thank you um and of course the Trump administration for your commitment to restoring Title 9 to its original purpose as opposed to being weaponized for uh ideological political ends. Thank you so much for being before us here today, Madam Secretary. I yield back. I thank the gentleman. I recognize now the gentle lady from Minnesota, Miss Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here with us.
▶ 2:49:26Um it is it fair to assume that uh you are aware that when a student borrower loan borrower is defrauded by a school that there is a provision in law called the borrower defense. Yes I am. Okay. Um it is a a straightforward concept. A student should not be forced to repay loans to schools that lied to them.
▶ 2:49:47Uh we know that millions um of federal grants and loans um go out the door while students are left uh with uh education that is not worthy. Uh so I was actually surprised a few weeks ago when your department quietly rescended $37 million fine that was placed against Grand Canyon University. Can you explain why that happened?
▶ 2:50:17Let me think for a second. Um, let me re review my notes on that because there were a couple of things I wanted to to make sure I covered with you. Uh, we we really found that the the accusations against Grand Canyon, um, which is a a faith-based organization, and we looked at all the facts of the case. I I am familiar with with the university.
▶ 2:50:40My my question is how are those students going to be made whole if you are not allowing the university to pay the fines? What's the plan? I'm not sure that that's the right analysis of it, but I will look into it further and get back to you and you'll give me back a writing. Okay.
▶ 2:51:00Um because we know that you know the the the president in whom you serve um had a fraudulent um university called Trump University and he himself settled three lawsuits before uh becoming uh president. Um we know that there are roughly 1.4 million borrowers who have been approved for a borrower defense discharge and are still waiting for that process. How are you clearing out that backlog in terms of the the borrowed defense funds?
▶ 2:51:31Uhuh. There are there are lists of that. I'll be happy to get back to you with those numbers. Okay. And while those students wait, um, can you give us a commitment that you are not going to collect that Yeah, I'll have to get back to you on that as to what the situation is. And I I don't understand how that's a difficult question to say yes to. They they've been defrauded. They are waiting for relief. While they wait for their relief, they shouldn't have to pay back that debt.
▶ 2:51:59Well, if they've been defrauded and it's been adjudicated that they've been a fraud, that they've been defrauded, then I will get back to you as to what the time frame is and why there's a hold up. If there is, okay, I'm not sure as I sit here right now. Wonderful. Um there there was a u I I know that you've been um questioned a lot on um uh IDEA and and its funding. Um my I I won't re litigate those those questions.
▶ 2:52:25I just have two particular questions to to to address or two areas to address. Um we know that the ID IDA um that you have uh gotten rid of the legal team that guides the states in implementation. How are you um going to rectify that? I don't know what you mean by have we've gotten rid of the legal team. Uh we have had some reduction in force of u there was a firing of the entire legal team.
▶ 2:52:56Well, we have other lawyers in place at the Department of Education and we are fully entire team that was that was for IDA has been fired. So, how are you addressing that? Because we have other lawyers who are in place that can handle those things and as I mentioned before we are have not missed any of our statutory requirements. I do believe that that firing hurts the implementation.
▶ 2:53:25We also know that you have gutted the office of civil rights um when there is already investigation backlog. How are you uh going to fix the discrimination claim cases that are out there? Well, there there are excuse me there are cases that uh we're looking into and again we've not missed any of our statutory requirements in terms of OCR. We also have a task force. There is a backlog.
▶ 2:53:54There are a lot of there are a lot of kids in our schools that are waiting for relief when you get rid of the people that are supposed to carry out those How are you to assure that those kids will not continue to be harmed? We are talking about so many situations in where kids are being discriminated against and you got rid of the people that investigate those investigations so those kids can protect themselves from the invest from discrimination.
▶ 2:54:22Well, we still have a very strong and capable staff in OCR at this point. Then you wouldn't have a backlog if that was the case. There is a current backlog and I would love for you to stop just saying words and to actually do the work that you are charged by statue and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. I recognize recognize now the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Thompson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:54:48Thank you, Secretary McMahon, for uh for being here today and for your continued public service to our country. Uh as you likely know, I've co-chared the bipartisan career and technical education caucus for more than a decade and I'm proud to be the champion for CTE here on the Hill alongside my good friend, Congresswoman Bonamichi. Uh, Madam Secretary, during your confirmation hearing, I was glad to hear uh about your commitment to providing more alternative pathways to traditional four-year degrees.
▶ 2:55:19Uh, leaning on career and technical education to help achieve that goal. Uh, as the author of the Strengthening Career and Technical Education for the 21st Century Act signed into law by President Trump in 2018, I'm thrilled to see the growth and the success of these programs. Uh typically when I visit these programs today, I see waiting lists. Um I see schools actually investing in bricks and mortar to expand their footprint to be able to accommodate more uh secondary and post-secary students.
▶ 2:55:48Uh uh really working to restore rungs and ladder of opportunity for so many. Today, a record nearly 12 and a half million students nationwide, a a number that's continued to grow uh since 2018 are served in career and technical education programs. At the secondary level, students are graduating from CT pathways at an amazing 96% rate, um far higher than the national average.
▶ 2:56:18Uh, high school CTE concentrators are also more likely to be employed full-time and have higher earnings eight years post-graduation than their than their counterparts. Great pathway to success in life. Madam Secretary, would you agree that CT programs help incentivize workforce and skills development? Yes, I do. Yeah.
▶ 2:56:38the you know the the reason that we obviously know this information is and and can track the CT success um and made positive reforms in 2018 was because of the data. Uh without good data we it's hard to make good decisions as members of Congress. Now I've written about this issue to you before but I'm still concerned about the department's decision to cancel the national evaluation of career and technical education under under Perkins.
▶ 2:57:07This 5-year evaluation was mandated by law in Perkins 5. Um it was set to be completed this year as Congress begins our work to reauthorize Perkins. It's time to do Perkins six here. Reauthorization time. And you when you reauthorize, you want to refine, you want to improve, uh you want to maximize opportunities. We need data to do that. Um uh it's better to educate or to legislate based on data, not emotion.
▶ 2:57:34Uh so Madam Secretary, how does the department plan to ensure there's still a national level evaluation infrastructure in place to support evidence-based policymaking in CTE while not not losing the nearly 5 years worth of data that's already been Well, we're going to continue to to collect the data that we need to collect and we want to make sure that the Perkins program is as we think as Congress, we want to provide we want to provide to you the best data that is possible.
▶ 2:58:04So, we have made some changes in some of the uh in some of the uh um data collecting that we are doing. I'm not sure as I sit here at this moment if that's really pertinent to the Perkins data so much as it was the NAPE scoring and other educational policies. And I'd like to get back to you after I clarify that. Yeah, that'd be great.
▶ 2:58:27And I look forward to working with you because I it it would cause me concern um that on year six of collecting that data, we use a different methodology. I mean, we need consistency, right? in terms of data consistency is important and statistical in the statistical collection of data. So, um quite frankly, um I look forward to working with you because we need to go back and finish the process the way we legislate it in the way we did the first five years.
▶ 2:58:53I think it'll set us up nicely for doing a great Perkins 6 reauthorization. You know, additionally, the administration's uh FY2026 budget proposes rep prioritizing CT grants so that they only support middle and high school students at the district level.
▶ 2:59:10However, under current law, states are explicitly granted the flexibility to decide how to best split their CT resources between secondary and post-secondary systems as post-secondary CT programs continue to provide valuable pathways for for learners of all ages. And these are incredible programs that uh uh I take every opportunity to be able to visit those to see the fruits of the legislative work that I did with President Trump um uh under Trump 45 uh with the modernizing career and technical education for the 21st century.
▶ 2:59:41Can you explain why the administration is seeking to limit CT funds to K to 12 despite Perkins laws explicitly supporting student transitions beyond high school including into apprenticeship and other post-secary pathways? another area that look forward to working personally with you on. Thank you. I'd look forward to that as well.
▶ 3:00:00I know the president is certainly and the budget supports the directive of the president's executive order, you know, preparing Americans for highpaying skilled jobs and that's one of the things that we'd like to focus on as well. Well, that'd be great. The action by the administr by the department was kind contrary to that. Very familiar with that executive. Gentleman's time is expired. Oh, I thank the gentleman secretary. I now recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Well, thank you, Mr.
▶ 3:00:28Chairman, and uh thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here and uh for your patience and endurance uh throughout uh throughout this hearing. Um there's been a lot said about uh the the closing of the Department of Education and the activities that um that are being ensued. But, Madam Secretary, I want to ask you, is education mentioned in our Uh I don't believe it is in terms of directives or agencies mentioned in the constitution.
▶ 3:00:59Correct. Our our 10th amendment says that the powers not delegated to the federal government by the constitution are reserved to who? Exactly. States. The states and the people. Yes. And my wife teaches 8th grade US history. And I think even her eighth graders can piece together that if it's not mentioned in the Constitution, it must fall to the states and to the people. Sadly, some of our federal judges need to go back to the eth grade and have that kind of class.
▶ 3:01:29Let me ask you this. Do you think a single district judge should be able to stop the constitutional actions of a Well, I certainly think that is a question now that is before the courts uh and and is being I think it will be properly adjudicated. Well, unfortunately that's exactly what happened.
▶ 3:01:49Judge Juan in Boston issued a preliminary injunction to stop several of President Trump's education related executive orders, including the one directing you to take steps to close the department. So, I want to take a moment just to set the record straight for the nation and ask you, did President Trump's executive order in March about closing the department ever tell you to ignore the law? No.
▶ 3:02:16In fact, it says specifically in the executive order to do it lawfully. Exactly. It very clearly says, let me just quote it for the record. The Secretary of Education shall to the maximum extent appropriate and permitted by law take all necessary steps to facilitate the closure of the Department of Education and return authority over education to the states and local communities while ensuring the effective and uninterrupted delivery of services, programs,
▶ 3:02:46and benefits on which Americans rely. It seems that Congress is the one out of line with the Constitution in establishing a Department of Education in the first place. And I for one happen to agree 100% with you and President Trump that we must send education back to our states. But that process doesn't mean ignoring the laws on the books.
▶ 3:03:10So, what steps have you taken to follow the Constitution and carry out President Trump's lawful order to move the Department of Education toward closure? Well, what I've said from the beginning, uh, in fact, in my confirmation hearing when I was asked specifically, I said I would like to work with Congress as we look at the plans for shutting down the Department of Education and which of those agencies can carry out uh the the obligations that are currently now funneling through the
▶ 3:03:40Department of Education. And so it was always my goal and will continue to be my goal as I know it will take congressional action to close the department of education to work with Congress to do that. So are there any specific needs from Congress that you have that you would ask us to help in accomplishing your task?
▶ 3:03:59I think they will come as we want to sit down as as we lay out more the plan and the timeline you know for what where we think uh different agencies could accommodate the role right now of the department of education. Okay. Um on another subject uh madam secretary do you agree that it is a privilege for foreign students to attend American universities and not a right? I do think it is a privilege.
▶ 3:04:26And do you agree that it's a privilege for universities to enroll foreign students, not a right? I think the right that the education here in our I mean I think it is a privilege for those foreign students to come and attend our universities. And do you agree that the safety of American students should be a top priority especially when considering who to let on campus? Yes, I do.
▶ 3:04:51Well, recently the Department of State announced a temporary pause and interviews for student visas with plans to update the policies on screening even social media for applicants. And this comes after we've seen just the incredible rise in the violent and anti-semitic protest on college campuses across the nation. And I want to ask you in just a closing second, has your department noticed a connection between schools that fail to follow the law and report foreign donations and the prevalence of anti-semitism on campuses?
▶ 3:05:22Well, one of the things that we've asked, in fact, this is uh exactly one of the issues that came up with Harvard. So we are looking at all universities now and investigating to make sure that under that section 117 they are as they are required reporting the amounts and sources of those cont those donations to the universities. Excellent. Well thank you so much again for the work that you're doing and uh Mr. Chairman with that I yield back my I thank I thank the gentleman.
▶ 3:05:48Now I recognize uh my friend the ranking member representative from Virginia Mr. Scott. Thank you and thank you Madam Secretary for being with us today. I have a I have a lot of questions and hopefully I can get some quick answers. I try to phrase them in a way they can get some quick answers. Um, do you intend to comply with the May 22nd court order? The May 22nd in which we are joined in this particular aspect.
▶ 3:06:17Can you be more specific? the court order issued on May 22nd requiring you to is you that prevented you from dismantling the department. Oh, right. That yes, we we will always comply with the law. Okay. And you you indicated proposals for the Department of Education going forward. Uh can we count on receiving those proposals as they are made? We've asked for those that information.
▶ 3:06:46would certainly like to comply with Congress and provide you with those. Um, can we get a commitment from you that you will com you will um cooperate with the Office of Inspector General and the Department of Education as the law requires? Yes. As the law requires, we um the uh on the budget under the 2026 budget, a lot of workforce development programs are combined.
▶ 3:07:15When the dust settles, do we understand that there will be about a 33% cut in workforce development programs? We are looking at workforce development and wanting to make sure um that it's treated fairly. You know, right now uh the United States government is pay well taxpayers are footing the bill for about 75% of of that and and uh we want to reverse that.
▶ 3:07:39We want we want the businesses or the universities to pay the 75% and taxpayers to pay the 25%. So I think that's a better uh proposal for workforce development. Do I understand that to be a yes? It's about a 33% cut. I I will get back to you if it's different than that. In the pending reconciliation bill, that's the one that has tax breaks for the wealthy and cuts in health care and Medicaid.
▶ 3:08:07CBO says 13 at least 13 million people will lose their insurance. It's probably going to be more than that because changes were made in the bill. SNAP benefit cuts and access to college with cuts in student loans and PEL grants. Does the 2026 budget cut PEL and work study on top of those cuts?
▶ 3:08:29You know, I would really uh appreciate the opportunity to respond to those if they were written questions because I think we can explain them better and I can work with you on that. Title one, you said it was level funding. Do I assume that means that it was that it was protected? Do I assume that means it was level funded without an adjustment for inflation for 1A? No, no adjustment for inflation. No, it's level funded. Okay. TRIO.
▶ 3:08:56Uh you've said publicly that there were problems with evaluating the programs. Does the Department of Education now evaluates TRIO programs for effectiveness? We would like to be able to look at them and have full accountability for those programs.
▶ 3:09:15And we are procluded from doing that right now by the way uh that TRIO is Um, some of us believe that the department has evaluations right there in the department of education. Do you deny that they exist? Well, there are some evaluations that are in to get trio going. But in terms of the longer effect of TRIO, there's specific language that presents that prevents us from doing it.
▶ 3:09:41So, I would like to have the ability if TRIO uh is reappropriated uh that we would be able to change that language and go in and understand the full accountability of the programs. On student loans, would you commit to working with us? There are about two million students, student loan borrowers who have applied for income driven repayment plans were caught up in a backlog.
▶ 3:10:04Can we count on you to work with us to make sure they're not We're we're working relative to all of those loans that are in default uh with several different programs for repayment and we urge students who have borrowed money and are in default now to go to our they're in a they're in a backlog. So you work with us to make sure they're not just caught up in that.
▶ 3:10:27I had a title six question and that is that um is it true that the office of civil rights uh investigates allegations of um violations of title six? The office of civil rights at the department of education as uh yes we do that um in imply on title six.
▶ 3:10:50Are you aware of the process that requires you to in case according to the uh law in case of any action terminating or refusing to grant or continue assistance because of failure to comply with the requirement the head of the federal agency must file with the committees of the House and Senate having legislative jurisdiction over the program or activity involved a full written report of the circumstances and grounds for such action.
▶ 3:11:19No such action shall become effective until 30 days have elapsed after the filing of such report. Do you know if the Department of Education has filed a report with this committee on any action you've taken? We may very well have done that. I'd like to get back to you just to assure you that that's my answer is correct. Is um the gentleman's time is expired.
▶ 3:11:40Just one quick quick one more quick question and that is is lack of viewpoint diversity of a violation of title six. Did the uh gentleman's time is expired and uh I'll ask the secretary to later. I now turn and recognize the long-suffering ever patient gentleman from Florida, Mr. Fine. Thank you, Mr. Mr.
▶ 3:12:09Chairman, you can you can see my fidgeting here. I guess it's new guy itis having to listen to um to a lot of these questions. Secretary McMahon, thank you for being here. It's a privilege to be able to ask you questions. I do want to save you one followup from the meeting. You don't have to meet with your accountant. The incremental tax benefit to you will be zero because we're not lowering any rates. So, it will be none. You will continue to pay what you haven't paid. I don't know why people continue to lie about that. Um but but I want to ask you about something different.
▶ 3:12:37Um um in the world that we live in today, Jews are scared. And I speak to you not just as a congressman, but as a father of two Jewish boys. They're 17 and they are 13 years old. I also speak to you as an alum of Harvard. And I've got to go back and check the data that said in the 90s one in three professors were conservative because I certainly didn't see them anywhere um when I was there. But but I will tell you as a Jewish conservative at Harvard in the 90s despite the fact they tried to kick me out twice.
▶ 3:13:04Um I never felt unsafe as a Jewish student. Never once sometimes felt persecuted because of my political views. But never ever not once in four years, six years actually because I went there twice did I ever feel unsafe. But but students do now. And and I wear this keepa now. It's a new habit of mine uh at my son's request um because of all the students who don't feel safe wearing theirs.
▶ 3:13:29And with my 17-year-old when he was born, actually 17 years ago, I had a dream that he would follow me to where I went to school. And now we're in the next few weeks where it's time for him to start thinking about where he's going to apply to college. And I don't know that I even think he should go to college at all in the days that we live in in the days that we live in. So my question to you is this. Given that Jews are scared, there are things that we can do on our college campuses. And I thank you for what you you are doing.
▶ 3:13:57But I believe that a lot of this problem is coming from foreign influence that our universities are taking money um from from countries that do not share our values and do not like our politics and do not like our people. And those those dollars come at a price. What they do is they don't just give a donation. They say, "Hey, we're going to endow a school. We're going to adow professorship.
▶ 3:14:20We want you to take our students and from other countries and what are things that we can do to work together so that countries like China or Qatar which are clearly not looking out for the interests of Americans um that we can get that under control in our higher education system. Well, thank you for that. And uh I'm I'm glad that you felt safe because there are clearly so many students now who do not feel safe.
▶ 3:14:45And I have talked to them and they've told me and no no child going to college or any school today should feel unsafe in the environment of of of uh their education. So I regret that. But what we are actually doing is we've launched we've reaffirmed um the section 117 compliance from universities that they must tell us it's they're already required to report this and they're not.
▶ 3:15:10So we're requiring them to report donors amounts because we want to make sure there's not foreign influence you know with that with that the deterrent act is for a purpose and that's really what that's really what we are supporting. Well, I'd like to work with you because even if you look at places like Colombia, it's generally not the physics department where we see the problems. It's not generally in what I'll call real degrees.
▶ 3:15:36It's in this creation of what I'll call pre-S Starbucks employment degrees like gender studies and these other silly things where you can't actually get a job, which are really nothing more than factories to create people to go and protest where we have these things. And so, I'd like to work with you on that. And I also want to ask you this. We subsidize these degrees. The idea that these schools walk around and say they're private really is false because they couldn't operate without the beneficiary of the United States government.
▶ 3:16:04So does it make sense perhaps for us to look at the ideas of saying if you want to get a student loan to go to the college in the United States, you've got to go get a degree in something where you actually might be able to do something useful when you're done with it.
▶ 3:16:17Well, I think that's one of the things when I was discussing before that I would like to see colleges and universities have more skin in the game because if they have more skin in the game, I think that they're going to make sure that the subjects and the degrees that they are offering are going to provide uh diplomas and pathways to uh employment in which they're going to those students are going to be able to repay their loans because if they're on the hook for part of that money, they're not going to want to have to pay it if that student is not successful.
▶ 3:16:45Well, I just want to close by thanking you and President Trump for what you're doing because you are fighting a fight. One of the backlogs that I didn't hear the Democrats ask about are all the investigations of anti-semitism on college campuses, which conveniently weren't worked on um when he was president. And thank you for dealing with that backlog. But know that I'm prepared to work with you and the president on any of these issues whenever you need it. And thank you for being here today. I thank you, I thank the gentleman and I recognize uh the gentleman from Indiana for the last uh word and questioning.
▶ 3:17:16Mr. Messemer. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Secretary, for being here. Uh Secretary McMahon, we've heard all kinds of scaremongering from the left that you're ignoring Congress or blatantly violating the law, particularly when it comes to fraud, waste, and abuse that you've eliminated in in the department. I think that's simply ridiculous. Can you reaffirm once again that your department is following the law and will continue to execute execute all laws passed by Congress? Yes, sir, we will. you.
▶ 3:17:45Also, how will the department balance the needs of lo uh localities to remain flexible in their CTE delivery to respond to local workforce needs while also ensuring programs are not hijacked with woke ideology by unelected bureaucrats? Well, we are continuing the funding for CTE. Uh, and that's um I I couldn't be more strongly supportive of our uh career technical education programs.
▶ 3:18:11Uh and and I I want to see them started earlier in schools, middle schools, high schools, community colleges. I think there are many pathways to opportunities for success, you know, for uh you know, for employment. And I think that we have to make sure that we are continuing to focus on developing those whether it's public private partnerships.
▶ 3:18:34Uh there are uh I know a lot of uh companies that work with community colleges to put funds into those community colleges to help develop curriculum. For instance, uh I know in West Virginia there is a program that Toyota has come in. They actually have built a Toyota center uh at one of the community colleges and the students who were there train in the plant and they take part of the courses at the Toyota Center and it's a workforce built in in my district as well and so uh those are the kinds of things that we want to see continuing to happen.
▶ 3:19:04Thank you. And we need to maintain local flexibility because the workforce needs across the country are are are very diverse. So thank you. Yes, they are. Yes. Thank you. Also, the state of Indiana has been a leader in school choice programs, leading the charge in voucher initiatives and creative creating a comprehensive educational agenda for K through2 education that will ensure families have the best access to educational opportunities and choices.
▶ 3:19:28What are the steps is the department planning for returning school policy decisions back to the state and local level to help ensure states like Indiana better achieve their pro-f family, pro- student education policy goals? Well, we we want to make sure that um that we're offering the opportunity, I think, for uh freedom, you know, for choice for freedom of choice in the schools.
▶ 3:19:50So by increasing the charter school budget that one of the things that the president would like to see opportunities for more charter schools get started you know and often charter schools and and I haven't talked about this today are they're often started you know in low economic areas to provide education for those students that are kind of being left behind uh and aren't performing uh at levels that other students are.
▶ 3:20:14So when we have this choice and competitive factors you know uh you know in our states we are seeing the levels across all schools a rising tide you know lifts all boats and it does give uh opportunities when when we have the choice that the president would like to see. Thank you. And in Indiana we've seen the highest utilization of the charter schools in in lowincome minority areas and and benefits those students the most. So thank you. Thank you.
▶ 3:20:40And I've and I've visited not Indiana, but I have visited some of those charter schools and lower economic areas and seen the results because it's often those lower economic students are are often so overlooked and said, well, there's no need to waste any money there because that's where we need to spend money to make sure that they have equal opportunity as well. Thank you. Appreciate your support and I yield back my time.
▶ 3:21:03I thank the gentlemen and I want to thank the committee um for your attention to this hearing today and I want to thank the secretary for your diligence in being here, your patience, the time that was expended. It's been a long hearing. We appreciate you being here. There are no further questions. So now I recognize the ranking member for his closing remarks. Thank you, M. Mr. chairman and I thank the secretary for being with us today.
▶ 3:21:32We're here today to consider the effect of the president's 2026 budget on programs within the jurisdiction of the committee on education and workforce. And we begin that consideration while legislation passed by the House and pending in the Senate showers tax breaks on the wealthy and cuts Medicaid, SNAP, and funding for programs that give access to college while adding trillions of dollars of additional debt.
▶ 3:21:59On top of the cuts in that bill, the 2026 proposal further cuts PEL grants, reduces work study, eliminates gear up and trio programs. As we consider the 2026 budget, we also um consider the federal court um court orders that have ordered the administration to stop dismantling the department of education without congressional authority.
▶ 3:22:27Uh we have heard of problems of test scores but no plan to do anything about it. handcuffs on teachers when whatever handcuffs there may be are locally imposed, not on federal government. We've heard that there's no federal role in curriculum, teacher quality or anything like that.
▶ 3:22:46And it's been emphasized that what the Department of Education responsibility is is basically civil rights to make sure that all children have access to a quality uh education. So, we've heard support for vouchers, but we know that those programs have not been shown to improve education, but have been shown to increase racial segregation. And finally, Mr.
▶ 3:23:12Chairman, you rescued the secretary when I asked whether or not viewpoint diversity is a violation of Title Six. Um, I guess we'll get that as an answer later. Um but um I cited the um statutory requirement that if you're going to take any action under title six claiming anti-semitism or any other violation of title six you have to give notice to the uh committees jurisdiction.
▶ 3:23:42Um Mr. Mr. Chairman, I she indicated she may have given notice and if so, you haven't shared that information with the Democrats on the committee and I'd like to see that uh because it requires a before any action can be taken. Uh you have to provide a complete report on that um uh situation and wait at least 30 days before any action has been taken.
▶ 3:24:11Uh, we'll just see um um what the um answer to to that is and I'll look for an answer from you. But we have a lot of work to do. We're trying to improve education and from a federal level. uh the cuts in education, no increase, inflationary increase in title one, that's a major um investment we make in K through 12 cuts in PEL grants and student loans.
▶ 3:24:41Uh that's our major investment in access to college. I think we're going in the wrong direction and hopefully we can when legislation um is considered by the House, we can make the appropriate adjustments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 3:24:56I I thank the the gentleman as well and we look forward to continue working and discussing with you what's going on and uh we've been we've been pretty busy doing that uh effort in the the one big beautiful bill and reconciliation as you know we've been extremely busy on that with the purpose with the purpose of of of making things better for the taxpayers and for the students the universities, college, community colleges,
▶ 3:25:27trade schools, uh workforce pel, all of the rest for quite some time here now and we look forward to more fully involving ourselves with the budget proposed by uh the president and even as we started today.
▶ 3:25:43But I'd also state uh that two years while the Democrats had the full majority including White House, the House and the Senate, the opportunities to improve education in ways.
▶ 3:26:00Even as being expressed by some of my Democrat colleagues now, it didn't And being a student of history to some degree myself, looking back and seeing the impact of education in this country that produced such revolutions as agricultural revolution, industrial revolution, communications revolution, space age, all of the rest came before the department of before with more local control
▶ 3:26:31with K12 systems under the control of of the states and local communities, school boards, parents. Right now, we're attempting to go that direction. And it was dis disconcerting to hear some of my colleagues talk about doing away with care, lunch programs, etc. for students when in fact that's not the case.
▶ 3:26:59And our president stood very very strong in saying that Medicare, school lunches were not to be cut from deserving individuals. Waste, fraud, and abuse. Yes, my my colleagues voted for waste, fraud, and abuse to be continued. But today, we're looking at what we can do to to get to a place where the Department of Education is at its right spot.
▶ 3:27:27And our gentleman colleague from North Carolina so eloquently pointed out that in our US constitution we don't have responsibility for education except what we have taken outside of the constitution. So it'll be hard constantly uh to experience the efforts of an administration committed to following the constitution relative to states rights and responsibilities for education.
▶ 3:27:51It'll also be confounding to some that better service can come from a smaller, more efficient bureaucracy. And certain states are taking education improvement into their own hands and succeeding and others will have to decide to compete as well if they will follow. Choice, choice, true choice and education will handle so much diversity. Bias will generally fail under its own weight.
▶ 3:28:21uh having a light on the extent of the ingrown one-sided liberal bias on our campuses will be threatening, but change I believe will result from that. Um the Congressional Budget Office in relative to the Tax Cut and Jobs Act was off by 180 degrees.
▶ 3:28:45They costed out a trillion shortfall that would result from the tax cut and jobs act. It was just the opposite. $1.5 trillion to the good. And I believe what we've just done reconciliation and the one big beautiful bill will be a facilitator for a lot of growth and opportunity. again, students, parents, teachers.
▶ 3:29:12If we get those three component parts right in education, we will succeed. And that involves local district control as well. So, I appreciate uh the the the the passionate debate that went on today, the questioning, the answers uh and sometimes answers that couldn't be given because it was based on questions without without fact. Thank you again for being with us. With no further business before the committee, uh, I call it adjourned.