▶ 0:00:00One, two, three. One, two, three. Perfect.
▶ 0:01:472167 Rayburn. Testing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. Audio check. One two one two one two testing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. only learned to count to 10, so I can't go any further. One, two, three, four.
▶ 0:19:17We'll get started here in about 2 minutes. The ranker is coming. He's He's on his way.
▶ 0:23:04The subcommittee on aviation will come to order. I ask unan consent that the chairman be authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's hearing. Uh without objection so ordered. I also ask you consent that the members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at today's hearing and ask questions without objection so ordered. And as a reminder, if members wish to insert a document into the record, please email it to documents timail.house house.gov. I now recognize myself for an opening statement for 5 minutes.
▶ 0:23:34May 16, 2025 marked the first the one-year anniversary of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 being signed into law. A great great legislation. Crafting this legislation was a monumental task that took place over the course of two years and involved over 2100 stakeholders and requests. Thanks to the leadership of Chairman Graves, the largest and most comprehensive FAA Reauthorization Act was signed into law.
▶ 0:24:04This legislation touched every major sector of the aviation industry and included provisions to ensure that the United States remains the global leader in aviation. Specifically, the law maintains aviation safety as the FAA's number one priority, as it should. contains the first ever general aviation title to strengthen America's general aviation sector.
▶ 0:24:30Addresses workforce development challenges for qualified workers, including pilots, mechanics, and air traffic controllers. Invests in our country's airport infrastructure by expediting project deliveries and prioritizing investments for small and general aviation airports.
▶ 0:24:49ensures a safe and efficient integration of new technologies such as drones and advanced air mobility and provides necessary reforms to enhance the passenger experience for the traveling public. The FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 included over 500 mandates for the FAA and the Department of Transportation to implement over the course of five years.
▶ 0:25:17I'm eager to hear from our witnesses today about the progress that has or has not been made in implementing the law. Today we have representatives from a broad cross-section of aviation stakeholders including general aviation, new entrance and commercial airlines.
▶ 0:25:36It is critical that we hear from all of them as we work to ensure that this law is implemented as Congress I want to acknowledge upfront that implementing a law of this scale, it's no small task. It requires coordination, persistence, and a unified effort across government and industry. That said, history tells us that the relevant agencies have often struggled. They have struggled to meet such a challenge.
▶ 0:26:07In fact, numerous provisions of the FAA re Reauthorization Act of 2018 and even some policy directives from the 2016 FAA extension have yet to be implement implemented to this day and quite honestly that's unacceptable.
▶ 0:26:26While the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 was comprehensive, ambitious, and challenging, it set an achievable timeline for implementation and reform. Our reputation as a world leader in aviation is on the line, but I am extremely confident that the Trump administration will get it right.
▶ 0:26:48I look forward to partnering with both President Trump and Secretary Duffy to protect and maintain that hardearned And while progress has been made on the implementation of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024, several important provisions have been delayed, such as section 372, the establishment of an enhanced qualification program for restricted airline transport pilot, which a ATP certificates that
▶ 0:27:19utilizes best-in-class simulator technology to ensure that we have the best trained and safest pilots in the world. Section 3 930, a rulemaking that will allow for scaled, safe, beyond visual line of sight operations for unmanned aircraft systems in United States airspace.
▶ 0:27:37Section 1110, a report that provides an update on the creation of federal and international policies that would establish the United States as the global leader in civil supersonic It is essential that this subcommittee along with the broader aviation community hold the DOT and FAA accountable to achieve the goals set forth in our legislation. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today.
▶ 0:28:04I look forward to working with each one of you to ensure this pivotal law gets implemented on time and as intended. I now recognize Ranking Member Cohen for five minutes for an opening. Thank you, Mr. Chair. A little over a year ago, we passed the bipartisan FA Reauthorization Act of 2024. It was a big, beautiful bill. We It was landmark legislation to strengthen every facet of our aviation ecosystem.
▶ 0:28:31We met with all of the uh groups involved in the private sector and we incorporated your your suggestions and we got it done all in there. There were a few things that uh for over for quite a few years was all included. 80 provisions specifically aimed at improving aviation safety in the US while other provisions will advance innovation and build upon the strength of our US aviation economy. But laws and words do not save lives.
▶ 0:28:57It's the timely and accountable implementation so important and today sadly the stakes are higher than ever. The tragic collision over the PTOAC earlier this year really brought it to our attention. disturbing rise and near misses over have exposed additional serious vulnerabilities in the system. Their stark reminders of the work to modernize and secure our aviation infrastructure cannot wait. We must remain vigilant in the existing laws execution as well as being lookout for solutions to new problems. One of our most urgent needs today is to modernize our air traffic control system.
▶ 0:29:27FAA data and recent assessments show that too many of our systems are outdated and the controller staffing shortages are stretching and already strained workforce including operational risk. In our previous uh administration tried to bring $8 billion in to work on that. The timing didn't work and the coordination with the Senate didn't work. But they saw the problem and had an 8 billion request to start upgrade continue upgrading. They'd already started with a billion a year the air traffic control system.
▶ 0:29:55Nowhere has this been clearer than Newark airport, where ATC equipment fails and staffing challenges have disrupted operations and raised safety concerns. Apparently, United says that they have the best on flight on schedule performance of any airports in the New York metropolitan area recently and they've got the runway completed and things should be fine in Newark. Let's hope so.
▶ 0:30:18Congress gave the FA clear directives through the 2024 reau authorization to modernize critical infrastructure, expedite deployment of new technologies, and hire and train the next generation of air traffic controllers. This was not a suggestion. It was a mandate and we need to see results. The chair puts on appearance, a facade of being a nice, friendly, easygoing guy. He's not. He wants this done and done now. He'll be on your case if you don't do it.
▶ 0:30:45At the same time, we must ensure that the FAA keeps pace with emerging technologies like advanced air mobility, drones, and autonomous systems. The 2024 reauthorization laid the groundwork, but delays in regulatory action risk seating America's leadership in aviation innovation to global competitors. We cannot afford to fall behind. Equally important is growing our aviation workforce. From pilots and mechanics to controllers and flight attendants, the aviation sector depends on a highly trained, highly skilled workforce.
▶ 0:31:12For this reason, Congress included numerous reforms and new programs in the FAA law to help recruit and develop the next generation of aviation professionals and keep them safe. Too many filing attacks on flight attendants and the air airplanes have just it needs to stop and hopefully that will we'll find out where we stand with that. Unfortunately, administration has moved swiftly in the wrong direction downsizing and terminating the very people and technical expertise responsible for the law's implementation.
▶ 0:31:40How much of this was the the new transportation FAA administration? How much of it was Doge and Mr. Musk? And maybe it was a bad day. Maybe his uh drugs weren't balanced or something. But they eliminated a lot of people we needed. And and that's one of the problems we've got. It's critical that the FAA reversed this illconceived course and moved quickly to implement the carefully constructed provisions of the law.
▶ 0:32:02I look forward to working with Chair Nells and our committee leaders Graves and Larson to begin developing a bipartisan ATC modernization package that ensures our aviation system is the safest, it's innovative and is the most resilient in the world. Appreciate the witnesses for joining us today. Look forward to hearing your perspectives on progress made and challenges remain as we continue our oversight of the FAA. I yield back. Thank you, Steve, for your kind words. I would like to now welcome our witnesses and thank them for being here today. Thank you all. uh take a moment to explain our lighting system.
▶ 0:32:32Uh three lights in front of you, green, go, obviously yellow, you're running out of time, and red, uh please wrap up your remarks. I ask unanimous consent that the witness's full statement be included into the record without objection, so ordered. I also ask unan consent that the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing. Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 0:32:56I also ask unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments or information submitted by members or witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing without objection to ordered. As your written testimony has been made part of the record, the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to five minutes. With that, Mr. Pleasants, you are recognized for the five minutes. Great. Thank you, chairman, and thank you uh ranking member uh Mr. Cohen and the rest of the members of the committee. Uh I'm Darren Pleasants.
▶ 0:33:26I'm the president and CEO of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association or AOPA. Uh and I'm privileged and pleased to be here to provide testimony back on our view on how the FA Reauthorization Act of 2024 is being implemented. Uh just for for level setting, general aviation is essentially all aviation that is not military and not commercial aviation. So it's a very vibrant and diverse portion of our aviation ecosystem.
▶ 0:33:51There are over 5,000 public airports, 14,000 landing strips, helports, and other landing facilities that make up this important and critical part of our national infrastructure around the country. I'd like to commend, as the chairman said, uh, uh, full committee chairman Graves and ranking member Larson and this broader committee for your great work last year, bipartisan work in passing the FA reauthorization bill of 2024. It was a landmark piece of legislation, as was alluded to a few moments ago.
▶ 0:34:20Uh, a particularly important part of that was that it included a very specific call out for general aviation that had never been a part of the bill in the past. And in there, there were specifically specific policies and programs that directly benefit and enhance the vitality of general aviation in this country. And we feel very grateful for that that work being done.
▶ 0:34:39Uh this hearing gives us the opportunity today to uh speak about what is happening with the implementation but also follows nicely on the other work that's happening with President Trump and with Secretary Duffy on the work to modernize ATC. It wasn't a specific part of the bill but it's an important part as Ranking Member Cohen alluded to to ensuring that we maintain preminence in the world. So I look forward to being able to speak to that.
▶ 0:35:03Uh we also appreciate and I specifically appreciate this committee's work on creating a down payment, let's call it the $12.5 billion uh funding to help at least get the modernization effort going. So I appreciate that. Uh AOPA is a member of the modern skies coalition which is a group of many aviation organizations across the country who are stacking hands and aligning on the importance of ATC modernization. and we meet regularly and we are fully behind the efforts of this committee to help take that from concept to reality.
▶ 0:35:34Uh we do currently I think this is important not to lose sight of we have the safest aviation ecosystem in the world. It remains the safest in the world but that doesn't mean we can't be better and so we feel strongly as AOPA and in partnership with others up here that we need to continue to work together to help make it even better into the future. Uh there are too many areas within the FA Reauthorization Act for me to speak to all of them. So, I thought I would just call out a few of them and provide perspective back on those. Um, one is around privacy.
▶ 0:36:01It's very important to pilots to be able to maintain privacy and there was a an aspect of the bill uh that uh required the FAA to put in place the means for pilots to withhold their personal information and separate it in a sense from the uh aircraft registry. That work has been done and was just recently uh implemented about a month and a half ago or so. So, we feel pleased with that.
▶ 0:36:21Uh, conversely though, we do still have concerns around the area of ADSB and that's unfortunately become a term that I suspect most of you know about because of the DC accident not that many months ago where ADSB is the technology that plays such a critical role in ensuring aircraft don't run into each other and increasingly we're seeing that technology being used for things other than safety whether it's collecting fees of some sorts or frivolous lawsuits or other fors of FAA enforcement action which in our view goes counter to the primary premise of ADSB which was safety.
▶ 0:36:51And anything that occurs that puts safety at risk or deters people from implementing this technology is concerning to us. So we think there's more work to do there. Uh basic med is an area this committee years ago partnered with AOPA and others in the industry to create an easier way for pilots to get their medical um get their medical so they can fly. And they were able this committee was able to create basic med in a way that's allowed more than 90,000 pilots now to take advantage of that without any reduction in safety.
▶ 0:37:19the most recent uh FA reauthorization bill enhanced that and that has been implemented. So we're quite happy with where basic med has has arrived today. Still more work to be done partnership with Canada and others but we feel good about where that is. Um fee transparency is an area of concern.
▶ 0:37:34Uh the GAO as part of the authorization bill was required to go out and basically ensure that the fixed base operators around the country are in fact establishing transparency with their fees and pricing so that as pilots use this national airspace infrastructure, we're able to ensure they have visibility into what those fees will be. Uh we would like to partner with the GAO to help them do that. We get calls almost every day on this topic and we're concerned about some of the egregious fees we're starting to see at at specific airports.
▶ 0:38:04Um the one other thing I'll call out is aeromedical. While the FAA ATC system needs to be enhanced and modernized, so does the FAA aeromedical. Dr. Susan Northrup's done a tremendous job. We believe in moving things forward and making significant progress. However, there's more to do and there's a lot of technology involved to help her and her team do what they need to do. Uh so with that I'd like to again thank the committee for allowing us to present and opine on how things are going and I look forward to questions from the committee over the balance of the morning. Thank you Mr. President. With that Mr.
▶ 0:38:33Bolan you are recognized for five well correction I think Tracy man Tracy would like to introduce our next witness. Um thank you Mr. Chairman. I'm honored to introduce our next witness Mr. Ed Bolan. Ed is the president and CEO of National Business Aviation Association, a position he's held since 2004, and is also from my hometown of Salena, Kansas, and a graduate of University of Kansas.
▶ 0:38:57Through his role at NBAA, Ed represents more than 11,000 aviation companies and professionals who rely on general aviation aircraft, advocating for the advancement of new technologies and products, enhancing safety, and recruiting a skilled workforce, all to strengthen the future of American aviation. Um, Ed is also a past president and CEO of Gamma as well. So, thanks to his uh extensive knowledge and experience during his distinguished career and I appreciate him being willing to share with us here this morning.
▶ 0:39:26Thanks for being here, Ed. Well, thank you for that kind introduction. like uh Congressman Mann, I'm enormously proud to be a son of Kansas and to have an opportunity to represent a great American industry as we work together to do something really important for this country. Uh Mr. Chairman, I want to begin by acknowledging a couple things that have been mentioned about safety and about the accident on January 29th.
▶ 0:39:56And certainly that galvanizes us, helps us understand the importance and the urgency of the work that we are doing today. I I think you know when when you discussed last year's bill, you mentioned that it was large and that it was comprehensive.
▶ 0:40:14It was also very uh the parts of the bill including the general aviation title uh the efforts to foster emerging technologies, the attention to the medical records and encouraging pilots to get help. Uh the foundation laid on NOTMS and all of the efforts on workforce are really critical.
▶ 0:40:41And I think now that that bill is the law of land, we've got a clear pathway on where we go from here. First, it's critical that we implement that bill. And I commend you for the hearing that was held on the one-year anniversary and continuing those hearings today. I think what we are seeing is there are parts of that bill that are being moved out on and moved out quickly.
▶ 0:41:10Uh we're enormously pleased for example that the ESBAR related to advanced air mobility and uh the pilot training has been done and we're looking forward to those aircraft being certified soon and uh be uh action on that. So I think a lot of good work is being done. I think all of us need to commit to making sure that great bill is implemented. So that's step number one.
▶ 0:41:39Step number two is we need to move forward on the plan that was laid out on May 8th by the secretary and by the FAA administrator. I think what we recognize is that what was being proposed, what is on the table is something that is unique in its scope and its specificity and its accountability and importantly its timelines.
▶ 0:42:06The legisl the proposal focuses on modernizing by investing in people, facilities, and equipment. And to that end, we have the secretary who has called for 14,000 air traffic controllers, highly skilled, highly motivated, and we see steps being taken to make that a reality. That is a critical issue.
▶ 0:42:32With regard to facilities, he has laid out investments that need to be made. Six uh air traffic control centers, uh deployment of 15 Traycons, 15 new towers.
▶ 0:42:45He's made it clear that we want to increase connectivity with broadband, with cellular, with satellite and he has made sure that we are focused on bringing in the latest generation of radios and u and radars and in fact yesterday I saw that uh he announced bringing in industry for a conversation on how we can get this done.
▶ 0:43:11I think it's really important to underscore that the entire industry is united in this proposal under modern sk under the modern skies banner. I think this is probably as united as our community has been for an investment in our air transportation system since the creation of the airport and airways trust fund in 1970.
▶ 0:43:37I think importantly the community is united on getting this done and not being distracted with debates that look to others uh including Canada with their overhyped and underperforming models. I think what we see is the opportunity for American innovation and an American ingenuity to lead the way.
▶ 0:44:02And I can't imagine a more fitting way to honor the legacy of the families and the victims of the 29th uh of January accident than having make us make sure that the United States continues to have the largest, the safest, the most diverse mix of aircraft and operations anywhere in the world. We want to lead and continue to have the United States be the gold standard for all things aviation.
▶ 0:44:35Thank you, Mr. Bolan, Mr. Robbins, you're recognized. Thank you, Chairman Nells, Ranking Member Cohen, and distinguished members of the committee. I'm Michael Robbins. I'm the president and CEO of AUVSI. We're the world's largest trade association representing the uncrrewed systems, robotics, and autonomy industry. and I'm delighted to be here with you today representing our members in the in the UAS or drone and advanced air mobility industries.
▶ 0:44:58It's a particularly significant week for our industry, particularly the drone side, as we expect that the Trump administration will release a series of executive orders on the drone industry uh this week, reflecting the growing national priority placed on UNC crude systems.
▶ 0:45:13And while we await the official details, uh, AUVSI has been working closely with the administration, engaged throughout this process and stand ready to work with both the White House and Congress to accelerate safe integration, enhance sec security, and strengthen US AVSI, like our colleagues, commends this committee's leadership in crafting and passing the FAA Reauthorization Act to 2024, which obviously represents a strong bipartisan commitment to strengthening safety, fasttracking innovation, and preserving US leadership
▶ 0:45:43in global aviation. And our industry in particular welcomed the clarity and direction the law provided in specific titles which will guide the safe and scalable integration of drones and am technologies into the national airspace including mandating performance-based rulemaking and expanding certification pathways. But as as mentioned legislation is only the beginning.
▶ 0:46:04The promise of this reauthorization and its impact on jobs and public safety, infrastructure, and importantly, global leadership and competitiveness depends entirely on how well and how quickly the law is implemented. Today, we're going to highlight where the FA is making progress, where it's falling behind, and how this committee's continued oversight is critical to meeting the full potential of the law. So, a few few key points.
▶ 0:46:28First, we appreciate the the FA's recent momentum in approving more waiverss and exemptions for beyond visual line of sight or bivos operations. These approvals are indeed driving real world value in public safety, infrastructure inspection, agriculture, disaster response, and more. However, these case by case waivers are not a substitute for a comprehensive rule, and they do not allow the industry to scale. This delays investment, operational planning, and public benefit.
▶ 0:46:54As Chairman Nells mentioned, section 930 of the reauthorization law set firm deadlines for the long-awaited part 108 BB loss rule. The first of those deadlines has been missed. It's been missed by as of today by 261 days. And yep, we're counting because every day matters to our industry. We got very close last year after a valiant effort by the FAA to move the rule forward, but ultimately bureaucracy won.
▶ 0:47:19Today, due to the leadership of Secretary Duffy and Administrator Roshelo, the draft rule is back at the White House for the inter agency review. And we have urged the the immediate release of the draft. And again, it is a draft. We have repeatedly reminded the regulators that this is only a step in the process and is by no means the end of the rulem and accordingly perfect should not be the enemy of the good for a draft. We urged the administration to maintain momentum and deliver a final rule as close as possible to the original statutory deadline.
▶ 0:47:47And that same urgency applies to section 229 2209 of the 2016 FAA extension act reaffirmed in section 929 of the 2024 reauthorization directing the FAA to establish a process for critical infrastructure operators to petition for restrictions on drone flights near sensitive sites. Nearly a decade later that process still doesn't exist.
▶ 0:48:10Beyond rulemaking, the FAA must also move quickly to implement section 9006, which directs the agency to study and adopt electronic conspicuity solutions. In an increasingly complex airspace, especially at lower altitudes, situational awareness is vital. As my colleague at AOPA mentioned, ADSB coverage is limited and not mandated in all airspace, and many types of aircraft lack broadcast capability.
▶ 0:48:33But consecuties available in the marketplace today and used elsewhere in the world can help scale and close that gap in enhancing safety and driving us towards a zero collision airspace. This technology enables mutual awareness between all aircraft protecting safety and privacy while enhancing operational flexibility and the FAA should move swiftly to approve and promote these technologies.
▶ 0:48:59We'd also like to thank this committee as well as Secretary Duffy and Administrator Roshel for moving boldly with plans to upgrade our aging air traffic control system. AVSI is also a proud member of the modern skies coalition and we urge that modernization investments include lowaltitude airspace awareness and digital infrastructure investments to ensure the future national airspace can safely accommodate both crude and autonomous operations at scale. Thank you for your leadership and for holding this important oversight hearing.
▶ 0:49:26The FAA Reauthorization Act offers a bold roadmap for the future of aviation. Now it's time to execute. Thank you. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Mr. Robbins, Captain Rivan, you are Chairman Nails, uh, Ranking Member Cohen, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify, share the perspective of more than 11,000 commercial airline pilots at Southwest Airlines Pilots Association. My name is Jody Revan.
▶ 0:49:53I'm a current 737 captain at Southwest Airlines and president of SWAPA. SWAP is one of the largest independent pilot unions in the world and is a sole bargaining unit for the professional pilots of Southwest Airlines. SWAP has been dedicated to aviation safety and security since 1978. I'm pleased to participate today's discussion about the 2024 FA reauthorization and air traffic systems personnel and aviation safety. Let me begin by saying that the pilots of Southwest Airlines are heartbroken by the tragedy in DCA in January.
▶ 0:50:23We share our deepest condolences with the families and passengers, the crew of American 5342 and PAT 21. We're committed to working with this committee, Congress, and all aviation stakeholders to ensure similar tragedy never happens again. Safety and operational excellence are not guaranteed. Uh our system relies on industrywide collaboration. Uh, SWAP is proud to be a leader in safety data collection and analysis, risk identification, and mitigation.
▶ 0:50:50Southwest pilots are among the most productive in the world, operating over 4,000 flights a day to 120 domestic and airports. SWAT SWAP partners with the FAA, labor partners, airlines, and industry with one goal, and that's to keep the national air system, excuse me, the safest and most efficient in the world. We carry 1.5 million passengers a year and the Swappa pilots depend on that safety.
▶ 0:51:16SWAP supports immediate actions to implement long overdue technology upgrades, increase air traffic control staffing, equip the FAA to recapitalize its systems and processes to meet the demands of an increasingly complex airspace. Uh the pilots of uh Southwest Airlines are industry leaders incorporating technology that increases awareness and provides tools uh to help pilots and controllers make safe decisions. Unfortunately, the systems potential is not fully realized.
▶ 0:51:43Recent high-profile issues have demonstrated the ATC facilities are not properly equipped or staffed. All aircraft, including roercraft and advanced air mobility systems, must properly be equipped with technology that provides ATC and other pilots with critical situational awareness to mitigate risks.
▶ 0:52:01The incidents, including uh a recent one, Chicago Midway Airport, where two Southwest pilots uh recognized uh safety and avoided a hazardous runway incursion, uh has reinforced that we have to have a minimum complement of two pilots in every cockpit.
▶ 0:52:16uh in discussions with Secretary Duffy uh after this uh incident took place, you know, we we uh made the point there's really no technological solution uh that can overcome the risk introduced by reducing the flight deck compliment flight deck and ATC technology or support tools and never replacement for experience and rested fully trained pilots and air traffic controllers and flight attendants.
▶ 0:52:39Swapa thanks the committee for the 5-year bipartisan FAA reauthorization bill that expedites the hiring of air traffic controllers, strengthens the aviation workforce while protecting experience requirements and accelerates the development and deployment of advanced technologies, including the new surface safety technology, runway and taxi signage and lighting systems.
▶ 0:53:01We also want to thank this community and the FAA uh for their commitment to increasing transparency and the efficiency in the FAA's office of aerospace medicine. Expanding the number of aerospace medical examiners and reducing the processing times for air medical certificates are essential steps to maintaining a strong pipeline of well-trained and experienced pilots. Uh, Swapa fully supports this administration's budget which funds AFA's technology and facilities account at $4 billion.
▶ 0:53:31The system urgently needs sustained robust budget requests and immediate infusion of funding. SWAP also applauds Chairman Gray's critical first step in moving forward with the 12.5 billion of funding. I would like to thank this administration and this body uh for making our nation's air traffic control system a priority. We look forward to working with the administration and Congress to make this a reality. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you, Captain.
▶ 0:53:58Miss Nelson, you're Chair Niels, Ranking Member Cohen, and members of the subcommittee. My name is Sarah Nelson. I'm the president of the Association of Flight Attendants and a 30-year flight attendant myself representing 55,000 flight attendants at 20 different airlines. We are grateful for the opportunity to testify with the perspective of aviation's first responders and our sister unions representing other aviation workers.
▶ 0:54:24The 2024 FAA Reauthorization Act was an incredibly important step forward in addressing decades of missed opportunities in shoring up our national aviation system. We applaud this committee on your efforts to get it passed and implemented. And we commend Secretary Duffy on his plans to supercharge staffing and modernization.
▶ 0:54:45With deep respect for the families of PSA flight 5342 and PAT 25 and lives lost in aviation tragedies in the past, we must always put safety and security first and redouble efforts to plug holes and mitigate risks in the system. Safety first always. But aviation is also critical for our entire economy and connectivity across the country and around the world.
▶ 0:55:09My written testimony addresses our safety priorities in the law and the status of implementation, including important workplace safety that also affects passengers, contaminated recirculated air, temperature standards, ramp safety, radiation exposure, flight deck secondary barriers, standards for good jobs and aviation, mitigating cyber security risks, and addressing issues with disruptive passengers.
▶ 0:55:32With the exception of the work by the National Academy of Sciences, much of this has been delayed or sidelined by this administration's actions to disband safety advisory committees and committees. But we are also very concerned that actions to fire probationary federal workers, implement the deferred resignation program, put in place hiring freezes, and put in jeopardy the federal worker pensions and healthcare with a budget with budget cuts that come from the bottom to give massive tax cuts to the rich who do not need it.
▶ 0:56:01undermine the work of this committee and the diligent efforts of the secretary to shore up our national aviation system. The Wall Street Journal published an article recently that highlights concern over staff departures that could affect quote the processing of medical clearances for pilots and air traffic controllers work on runway safety and the pace of licensing in the AY's commercial space offices.
▶ 0:56:24We are also getting direct reports that the loss of employees that support the frontline safety professionals is taking a toll as HR uh and security screeners at the FAA have taken the deferred resignation program and this is slowing the hiring process directly harming the focus of this committee and Secretary Duffy's plans to supercharge the changes we need. Every worker at the FAA contributes to safety whether deemed essential or not.
▶ 0:56:48The staffing cuts, disruptions, and distractions to the safety work of those who maintain and enforce the standards of our aviation system is simply unacceptable. It's also important to recognize that other agencies contribute significantly to aviation safety, including the National Weather Service, NYOSH, and US A.
▶ 0:57:06The cuts to these agencies and personnel are directly undermining efforts to get the information and structure we need to keep us safe in all airspace on the ground around the world and able to keep threats to our safety such as Ebola or other communicable disease from being spread throughout uh and by our aviation system. Doge should not be allowed to undermine safety in the name of efficiency. As aviation's first responders, we are charged with the safety, health, and security of all passengers and crew on our flight.
▶ 0:57:36And we promise our own families that we will come home safely, too. Aviation safety is personal to us, just as it is for tens of thousands of federal workers who take part in helping us keep the promise to our families and our loved ones in our care. It is the product of hundreds of thousands of workers from engineers to mechanics to safety inspectors, security officers, pilots, gate agents, baggage handlers, flight attendants, and air traffic controllers asking all day long, is it safe?
▶ 0:58:04We ask this question with the information we have from tragic moments of gaps in safety and promises to the memory of those we've lost and the families with whom we grieve, that it will never happen again. This starts with supporting a thorough investigation, continues with advocacy for reform, and lives forever in our repeated analysis all day long. Is it safe? Aviation is the safest mode of transportation because we demand it.
▶ 0:58:29And we built a system that allows us to predict risk, produce redundancies, and fill holes to keep tragedy at bay. The FAA holds the statutory mandate to ensure the highest degree of aviation safety. Our industry has been through many ups and downs.
▶ 0:58:44We cannot control the weather, but we can commit to steady funding, no shutdowns, the highest standards, broad recruitment, including the promise of good, steady jobs, and working with the people on the front lines who know the system best, how to fix it, what it lacks, and what it needs. We applaud and support the subcommittees focused on the safest, most efficient national airspace system in the world. We are committed to fulfilling this mission with you and all of our partners in aviation safety, health, and security.
▶ 0:59:14Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. Uh thank you, Miss Nelson, and thank you all for your testimony. We will now turn to questions from the panel. I'll recognize myself. Uh Mr. Bolan, uh certification delays of business aircraft. Business aircraft have long been a concern, particularly with the introduction of new technologies such as air advanced mobility, advanced air mobility.
▶ 0:59:36Do you believe that the FAA is progressing in modernizing and streamlining its certification process as required in our reauthorization at 2024? Well, as you know, u the reauthorization bill did require uh some certification reforms, helped digitize uh a lot of the work that is being done, and certainly the signing of the ESAR last October provided the enabling uh legislation or the enabling
▶ 1:00:07regulation to be able to start those operations. I think we're very interested in seeing the first advanced air mobility aircraft certified potentially as early as the end of this year, maybe early next year and beginning operations. Uh, a number of very exciting demonstration programs have been uh launched and I think we feel very encouraged about ushering in this new era of aviation.
▶ 1:00:34Have the delays impacted innovation in your uh I I think there's always a critical balance uh when technologies are coming forward but I think there is a growing recognition that innovation and technology makes us safer and that safety delayed uh is not a way for us to promote safety. So I think we're on track on focusing on making these things happen very well.
▶ 1:01:01Uh, last month I introduced the supersonic aviation modernization act which I firmly believe will foster aviation innovation across America. As you know, my bill would direct the FAA to revise and issue regulations that permit civil supersonic flights in the national airspace. So long as no, you know, no boom, no supersonic boom, uh, breaks grandma's window on the ground, right? Uh, it won't reach the ground.
▶ 1:01:27Uh, could you explain why it's critically important for the FAA to revise the current 1973? You weren't even born in 1973, were you? I was a graduate. Well, they that prohibits non-military. I mean, this is talking, we're talking about non-military flights, right, over the United States. Yeah.
▶ 1:01:44You know the 1973 law as you know was based on the technology that was understood at that time and huge amounts of research and development by private companies by NASA and others have really changed that technology.
▶ 1:02:01The uh you're well aware of the boom flight uh that has been able to go without creating uh that type of sonic boom that was so prevalent in We all know that what aircraft do is connect people. Uh, and they're time machines. And so I think our advancements through the years have been focused on flying farther, flying safer, flying faster, uh, and flying more sustainably.
▶ 1:02:27I firmly believe that by the FAA establishing a clear science and evidence-based framework for civil supersonic aviation while ensuring no noise, safety, or environmental concerns, we will allow American industry to innovate and maintain leadership in global aviation policy. I appreciate NBAA support of my legislation. So, thank you for that. Look forward to working with you to to get this legislation through Congress.
▶ 1:02:53Uh, Miss Nelson, uh, uh, 55,000 flight attendants, over 20 airlines. I was reviewing your written testimony. I think there's several sections, probably 12, 14 of them, uh, that are priorities for your union. Uh, section 321 deals with turbulence related injuries. I think section 323 dealing with the temperature. I think that's in progress. The FBA is working on that. the cockpit secondary uh barriers.
▶ 1:03:21I believe that is in progress as well. Uh section 432 uh the uh crew member uh interference I think that is a concern for everybody. I mean what we're seeing with section 4342 with employee assaults that is complete. It's my understanding that section is complete with dealing with the employee assault precautions. Is that not in How are you doing?
▶ 1:03:47How do you feel the FAA is responding to some of the priorities that you have that was in our FAA So, we we have issues here because the issues that deal with safety, I'm sorry, with security uh were generally generally referred to ASAC, which was the committee that was disbanded have been in place since PANM uh since the Panama flight crash um of over 30 years ago.
▶ 1:04:13M um and so that much of that work around the security issues has been set aside because that committee is no longer in place. Now we understand that there are efforts to reestablish it. Um we're looking forward to that very much and we hope that it will continue to be uh representative uh from across the entire aviation industry. We think it was very important committee that provided a lot of important work for our security. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'll now recognize ranking member for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:04:44Miss Nelson, I'll continue with uh with you. How did how do you feel about this proposal or this concern of but the safety of flight attendants and interactions with unruly passengers being sent to a committee that hasn't existed since Pan-American Airlines was around, which I recall? I I hope that I heard you correctly, but um this is a concern.
▶ 1:05:12We we need real focus on disruptive passengers and um as our flights are fuller than ever and our staffing is at minimums, uh it is very very difficult for flight attendants to get to the source of a conflict and uh deescalate with our skills.
▶ 1:05:28oftenimes that rises up and we have had um concussions and broken teeth and um all kinds of uh problems because we don't have enough focus on trying to keep those disruptive passengers um from getting back on our planes again um and coordinating that that information across the industry. I don't recall these incidents occurring more than five, six, seven, eight years ago.
▶ 1:05:55Has it been more of it's more modern problem, current problem than the past? Uh, in fairness, Congressman, we were working on issues of air rage in the 1990s and we got some of those first fines and jail time in the uh bill in 2000, but uh we are seeing this at a rate that we have never seen before. So, you are correct that we are seeing this at a higher rate.
▶ 1:06:20Um, part of that has to do with the conditions um at the on our planes that people are jammed in together. There's a lot more bodies. There's a lot less space to move around. Um, people come a little upset because they've got smaller seats, no place to put their bags and sometimes their bags are taken from them. Uh, and so there are a lot of stressors uh that are added to our environment.
▶ 1:06:42You add into uh that in addition to that alcohol and it is a recipe for real problems up in the air and even during the boarding process. You follow up on on the idea of smaller seats and less room to move and being crammed in the evac which is something I've been working on for years and has passed but it's never quite been implemented because they don't give a a representative census of the population of a uh of an aircraft. uh seniors and people with disabilities and and youngsters are aren't included.
▶ 1:07:12How do you feel like the uh uh FAA is doing on getting that reform uh to see to it that the test that they do to see if the 92nd rule can apply is being carried forth. We're working on getting the study, but this has been a direction from the 2018 bill that we are trying to continue to press the FAA to move on.
▶ 1:07:33And um we are still working with outdated uh data in certifying evacuation standards for the aircraft and um that is leading to cabins that are jam-packed and conditions that uh do not recognize as you said the population that we have today. Uh we have a larger population. people are generally larger today. Uh we have people our airplanes are open to everyone. So we have passengers with disabilities.
▶ 1:08:02We have young children and none of this is factored in in the evacuation standards. So um both the human factors and also the size of the seats and how close they are together that is not taken into consideration for those evacuation standards today and that needs desperately to be updated. Do flight attendants get any training on people with specific and medical conditions like people with autism and how you would deal with them in an situation where you had a crash. How are we getting training on that? Yes.
▶ 1:08:32Uh not directly on that. Um it is it is mentioned in our training but we do not have direct and specific training on that. Thank you very much. Um Captain Revan Revan u your testimony highlights the need to modernize the system. What should the FAA do first to tackle um the problems in the in this system and to reduce risks about the National Aerospace System? Uh thank you for the question, Recommener Cohen.
▶ 1:08:59We uh I think what we're doing is uh a very good approach. I like uh you know what was in the bill. Uh one of the biggest things we talk about is one level of safety and one level of one level of security uh so that you know uh our traveling public is safe. Uh we also uh and we were pleased to see in the bill removal of a loophole uh that allowed part 135 operators to sell 121 tickets.
▶ 1:09:23Uh also I think um you know what we've done in security and and safety uh with the ground markings uh with ADSB with RAS. Uh it's a good first step. My time's about out. I do want to ask you this. As a pilot, do you see any problems in the relationship in pilots and co-pilots and in guiding an airplane safely? Are there any inter interactions that u that you find to be difficult or is that dealt with in training too?
▶ 1:09:48So I think we deal with uh uh you know three or four generations sometimes uh in a seniority list uh and and we work through those issues. We're trained very well. We have yearly uh discussions about that. Uh cockpit resource management is of the utmost. Um, we have professional aviators out there that uh, you know, the the Midway incident is a great uh, teamwork uh, type of example, you know, where a captain's very focused on landing in a short runway and the first officer is watching an evolving situation.
▶ 1:10:16Um, frankly jumped in and saved the day. Uh, and and so they work well together up there regardless. uh we have a very uh standardized procedure so that every person that shows up and flies with me in the right seat has the the singular uh model on what he's uh thinking is going to take place in the cockpit, how we run checklists, etc. Uh so not not a lot of problems. Uh so you you as a 737 pilot realize the pilots and co-pilots do work together and that's not a problem. And then absolutely true. Absolutely rely on each other.
▶ 1:10:45If the chair would give me just a one more second or minute. Uh um Mr. Robbins, you are the president of Association of Uncrrewed Vehicle Systems International. Now, as he mentioned, 1973, I was around 1973, we wouldn't had an association of uncrrewed Vehicle Systems International. Was the year we were founded actually was it? Yeah. The only thing I remember then was you put some water in a in a cylinder and you pulled it back and it flew, you know, and that was in your yard. You've come a long way.
▶ 1:11:14Ukraine had a big week with drones. Are drones becoming most significant military vehicle for the future uh in this world? And and do you have members in your organization that are working on drones as weapons? Yes sir. Thank you very much for that question. Um I believe that we we do have a number of members. We are both a commercial and defense uh trade association.
▶ 1:11:37We do have a number of of our member companies that are working on uh various forms of of military uh UAVs whether that's for ISR or weaponization or contested logistics. So uh certainly the the future of military uh is is autonomous.
▶ 1:11:54Uh ultimately robots don't bleed and it's been clear from uh the higher echelons throughout the department of defense uh that uh moving towards more autonomous systems not only extends our operational reach, it also ensures we're protecting our war fighters. So yes, the future of uh our military is autonomous, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Perry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Pleasants, I'm going to turn to you for some questions just to lead up to them.
▶ 1:12:23As you note in your testimony, for 86 years, AOPA has stayed true to its mission of protecting the freedom to fly, guiding, protecting, and promoting this uniquely American experience so we can pass it along better than we received it to the next generation of aviators.
▶ 1:12:40And with that in mind, I think now is probably the most important time for AOPA's mission and its criticality, as I describe, left-wing activists seeking to destroy the ability of folks in the United States to travel as they see fit and to uh exercise their freedom in private aviation.
▶ 1:12:59And with that in mind, there are efforts being made regarding aviation fuels to to seek to make it prohibitively expensive um in this mindless pursuit for sustainable aviation fuels. We've not only attempted to subsidize uh SAFS that goes back to the Obama administration, we've done that. Um it's uh it's you know among other things it establishes a government created market for ethanol under the guise of environmentalism.
▶ 1:13:30And then of course we've got to have the jobs that you know that they just have to continue for this uh for the new market that was created this Soviet style program. The tax credits are $125 per gallon up to a$1.75. And after uh this January, now we have a production tax credit for 35 cents a gallon as the base up to $1.75.
▶ 1:13:55And beyond that grift, there's another grift for in the IRA which uh created a $250 million competitive grant program for the blending, storage, transportation, etc. of of fast aviation sustainable fuels. Um we have a long history an assorted history of subsidies. Uh but even after all this it for.3%.3%.
▶ 1:14:26Uh and and the goal by 2030 is 3 billion gallons of which we are about 93 million gallons. We're far far from that. And with that in mind, the cost associated production cost two to 10 times that of regular fuel. Two to 10 times. A, you know, aviation is expensive enough on its own.
▶ 1:14:49Um, but paying two to 10 times more for fuel just because we can make it um when we have abundant fuel otherwise is like it's like quite literally it's crazy. But beyond that, the people that want these fuels don't think that that's enough, right? That's not even enough for them. Particularly for GA pilots, they want you all to fly less. Um, and that's the only thing that's going to appease them.
▶ 1:15:18Let's face it, the only thing that's really going to appease them is that when you don't fly at all. So with that in mind, as the leader of AOPA and thinking particularly about the increased price of fuel, which increases the cost of flying, what is AOP's plan to address what I would characterize in an insane um activism to jack up the price for fuel uh and for to have us, you know, end this misguided um keyotic mission to
▶ 1:15:48use something other than what has worked for decades. decades upon decades now safely and is abundant and is is um affordable. What's your plan? Yeah, thank you Congressman for the question. And you're right. This is at AOPA's core is out protecting our collective freedom to fly. Uh fees and expenses are just an underlying constraint on on that mission.
▶ 1:16:12and you mentioning SAF and and the uh I'll say broader set of fees, the ones that I talked about in my opening statement, whether it's FBO fees, landing fees, uh insurance, all these costs begin to add on top. So, uh we wake up every day looking at how those fees are changing over time and what role can we play in helping to drive those down. To your specific question then, you know, I think we take several tacks on that. You know, one is where is the future going? So you talk about SAF, I can use another example would be unled fuel going from leaded to unled fuel.
▶ 1:16:42That that's my next one, the Eagle Act. And then another crazy initiative uh where you know literally some airports have banned regular fuel and it's resulted in accidents and incidents. Yeah. All for no reason. There's absolutely zero reason to do any of this and it increases the cost. So as the advocates for all GA pilots, like where do you stand on I you can tell where I stand. Where do you stand? Yes. Well, so I we will resist everything that increases the cost to fly.
▶ 1:17:10Right now, that doesn't mean it's going to be zero because it does cost money to run the infrastructure and to produce the fuels that we use. In the case of unled fuels, that's one that we're probably more supportive than than not because there's only one producer of tetra ethylled in the world over in the UK and we're concerned about the future of the availability of that one. We're basically We should subsidize that. I don't know if we subsidize that. We should, but that's another story. But but we have one producer in the world who makes that. So we as a country are beholden on one single manufacturer.
▶ 1:17:38So that concerns us and for those of us who've used unled fuel. It actually works well in the airplane. So in the engine. So there are constraints between today and being able to widely roll a fuel like that out that we are concerned about some safety related concerns. Uh but we'll advocate for that transition to be done in a safe and thoughtful way. More broadly to your question though around fees. A big part of it is pushing back just like you are.
▶ 1:17:59I fully agree with, you know, if you look at the full spectrum of fees out there, many of them raise serious questions as to the sort of the the viability of why such a change would be imposed on what is, as has been said earlier, the the most vibrant aviation ecosystem in the world.
▶ 1:18:14And for someone like me who's traveled the world and seen aviation across Europe, across Asia, it's remarkable when you come back to this country and see how vibrant it is and how widespread the use of general aviation is to support even the general public, whether it's medevac or firefighting and all of these practices that happen that unfortunately most of the general public doesn't realize.
▶ 1:18:34So, I'll end with saying I think one of the biggest things we can do with AOPA is to educate the public on how important this infrastructure is we have and how important this this world of general aviation is to the economy and to their very lives. Whether it's teaching the future airline pilots of the world to fly, whether it's handling a medevac flight, whether it's uh disaster recovery and delivering supplies to a post hurricane environment, all of those things are general aviation.
▶ 1:18:57And my hope, and we fight this battle every day, is that as more people hear and appreciate the value that general aviation provides, some of the crazy stuff that's happening out there gets less momentum because people do want to support what we all know and love so much. I yield. Gentleman yields and now recognize Mr. Garcia. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses here today. Um, I just want to obviously emphasize that uh all the issues that are being discussed today are at the top of mind for a lot of folks.
▶ 1:19:25Certainly when I'm back home, uh people talk to me about uh the price of health care. They talk to me about the cost of goods and they talk to me about safety at our airports, at our airlines, and what's happening at the FAA. It is at the top of mind of constituents across my community and I think across the country. And so these these hearings and these questions are are really important. So I want to thank all of you. Um, I know that obviously staffing challenges is a huge issue for the FAA, um, especially for air traffic controllers.
▶ 1:19:56As an example, I represent the Long Beach Airport, uh, back in my home community of Long Beach. Uh, this is an airport that is a municipal airport run by the city. I served as mayor there for eight years and so I know the airport really well. I've had a chance to meet and I know much of the staff at the airport, the TSA folks, the air traffic controllers, the workers there. Um, you may not know that the FAA has determined for our airport that we need 26 certified controllers. We currently have 19.
▶ 1:20:24Now, these are positions of course that with mistakes, uh, with health concerns, if there are issues where folks need to take some time off, we're creating a very serious issue at our airport and for safety. Now, I want to be clear, the Long Beach airport is safe. These air traffic controllers are incredibly talented. In my opinion, they are heroes. They and they work really hard to ensure the safety of all people.
▶ 1:20:51But I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say the biggest priority as we implement the FAA reauthorization is to follow through on our promises to build and support our workforce, ensuring people know what their roles are and a safe experience for all passengers. Now, I think it's really important, of course, that as we have these conversations, we're looking at safety on all fronts.
▶ 1:21:11It's a safety for our traffic controllers as well as our commercial pilots, the FAA, of course, the process of clearing someone to return for work for all of these positions after a medical or mental health issue is also really important. And we know that you're all involved in this work. We all agree that we need to be completely certain it's safe before putting someone back in a tower or a I know that there was an internal presentation at the FAA last month suggesting staff departures could affect the processing of medical clearances for pilots and air traffic controllers.
▶ 1:21:42Uh, Captain Rean, can you share what the process of regaining your clearance to fly actually entails? Uh, thank you, Congressman, for the question. So, as understand you're talking about uh for a lost medical. So, uh there's a couple of different u avenues there. The special issuance is the one where we see the most uh problems in the past and that has improved. Um we we've been uh working with um Dr. Northrup who's a FAA flight surgeon uh on on reducing those timelines.
▶ 1:22:11But as an example, someone has a failed EKG uh and and in the past there were times where the cardiac board was only meeting, you know, twice uh a month or quarterly or or even longer sometimes. And so this person had already been cleared by his AM. Hey, you're you're cleared to go fly. Everything's back within the right ranges. But he was waiting for that board to meet. So that's 10 years ago this problem has been, you know, on our horizon.
▶ 1:22:38Now they've gotten those down to an average of 90 days, which we're absolutely thrilled with. You know, there there'll be, you know, departures here and there, but he works with his AM who is not an employee of the FAA, and that paperwork, you know, filters up. Yeah. And Captain, I I I I've heard those same stats. I think that's really impressive. And I think as the FAA presentation, the internal presentation that was presented, um, I'll talk about staff departures and how they could negatively actually impact this process.
▶ 1:23:04We've made so much progress and yet these staff departures could really could really be a hindrance to the progress that we've made. Uh, part of last year's FA reauthorization created a working group to recommend ways of improving, of course, some of these procedures. The aviation rulemaking committee also put out their own recommendations on mental health and a aviation medical clearances last year. Captain, do you know if any of those recommendations um additional recommendations have been adopted by the FAA and I know some of them have obviously on on on the timeline? Uh yes.
▶ 1:23:32Uh we're pleased with the progress, but you can never do too much. Specifically, you mentioned uh mental health. You know, we we have a peer support uh program at Suaba. Uh but near and dear to my heart uh maybe um earlier this year uh a classmate of mine, a 20-year employee at Southwest Airlines took his own life. And uh so we've got a lot of room to work. We've got a lot a lot of uh you know it's a weakness for pilots who feel like hey I I have to you know John Wayne this I got to keep a secret. I if I tell somebody I need to talk to somebody.
▶ 1:24:02I'm going through this problem. We've also got to get towards a company with a just culture uh that that encourages self-reporting as opposed to you know having some sort of you know a punishment type culture. And I I do think we're making great strides you know at Southwest Airlines and in the industry that side. I'm I'm out of time.
▶ 1:24:19I just want to thank you and just to to conclude just say that um mental health of all folks and their just physical health whether they're pilots whether they're traffic controllers whether they're their flight attendants is so important and I just hope that we recognize that these reductions are making ensuring that we have a healthy team at all of our airports possible. So thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you. The gentleman yields. I now recognize our fearless leader of the full committee chairman Graves. Thanks Mr. Chairman. I actually don't have any questions.
▶ 1:24:48I think I'm pretty familiar with the reauthorization, but uh I do want to uh welcome all my friends here uh to the committee and and we appreciate your testimony and and uh we appreciate your insight uh as much as anything else. So, thanks. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, sir. We we appreciate you too, Chairman Graves. Isn't he wonderful, Miss Nelson? Isn't he wonderful? We have strong leadership on this committee. I now recognize Mr. Stalberg. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:25:19Uh, currently pilots and air traffic controllers who seek mental health care are unfairly penalized. While aviation professionals are mandated to report if they seek mental health care, once they take that step, they are faced with delays, confusion, and broad regulations to return to work.
▶ 1:25:39This often means that relatively minor health concerns results in long wait times and derailed careers for safe and well-trained pilots and air controllers. As a former police officer, there were two times in my career that I needed help with calls for I was escorted out of the squad room by a commander, commander Lieutenant Bob
▶ 1:26:09Brazzle after an individual tried to kill me. Lieutenant Brazle said, "Pete, how you doing?" And in front of my colleagues, I said, "I'm tough, a hockey player. I've won in fights. I've lost fights. I'm okay." I was crushed inside. I left my night shift after the incident, sitting on the halls, the citystep halls of Duth, Minnesota, watching the sunrise over Lake Superior. Most beautiful sunrise I've ever seen.
▶ 1:26:36The grass was as green as ever, knowing I'm alive that morning. I needed that help at that moment because when I went home, I never told my wife as she was leaving for work what had happened. I go to roll call. Bob Rouszle met me there. He knew I I needed help.
▶ 1:27:03I that police counselor that night and I got the help I needed. And I returned 22 straight years after that. And it was because I had a leader that understood that it's not the stigmatism of mental health must go in this nation. Because one in four of us, one in four of our adults are going to experience that in our lifetime.
▶ 1:27:32No matter what we do or say, we're going to experience that. And our professional airline pilots are no different. And when I hear that our airline pilots when they ask for help, that they're removed, the stigma's there, they're delayed in getting help, and some of them can't even get their jobs back or delayed until they get their jobs back, which affects their family. That is wrong.
▶ 1:27:59And that stops right here and right now with with the uh Mental Health Aviation Act that I'm proudly sponsoring with Representative Cassen from Illinois. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for what you do. Thanks for bringing clarity to the situation. It should never happen. And once that bill happens, if any of you need help, you will get it. The door will be open.
▶ 1:28:24And then you will return to your jobs carrying the most precious people. And you all know that my goal is to have if it happens to have the same effect that that counseling happened to me as a police officer to be able to work through it, manage through it because we have help for you.
▶ 1:28:48And never will you lose your job and never will that stigma stay with because we're all humans and it happens to us and it happened to me almost 31 years ago. Even back then I had a leader in the police department and you were all leaders in that in the professional aviation and I'm proud of each and every one of you. I fly couple times every week. We all do. You carry us and our families and our friends depend on you.
▶ 1:29:20Make no mistake, this committee, Graves, Chairman Nelss, and my Democrats on the other side of the aisle, all agree with this bill. This is not a messaging bill. This bill is going to get across the finish line in a bipartisan fashion. The president's going to sign it, and no, never again will you have to wonder if you you should ask for help. I had I had questions prepared, Mr.
▶ 1:29:48Rean for you and I I'm sorry I didn't get to them but I wanted to tell you all my personal opinion my personal experience of asking for help. Asking for help is actual strength and we have to we have to honor that and make a commitment. Never again will you have to be forced to get into that cockpit if you're dealing with some issues around you or your family.
▶ 1:30:14Because remember, one in four of us in our lifetime as adults will need help. God bless you and thanks for carrying us safely. I yield back, Congressman. Thank you, Pete. Well said. I now recognize Mr. Johnson for Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ranking member for convening this hearing and thank you to our witnesses today for your testimony.
▶ 1:30:38The FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 was a historic bipartisan commitment to public safety, modern infrastructure, a stronger workforce, and consumer protection. But the law is only as strong as its execution. And right now, that execution is being sabotaged. A year ago, we came together across party lines to move aviation forward. But instead of building on that progress, the Trump administration is gutting it.
▶ 1:31:05Slashing the FAA and DOT workforces while tasking them with over 500 mandates is calculated sabotage. You don't modernize aviation by laying off the professionals who keep planes in the sky and passengers alive. You don't protect safety by sidelining the very people who ensure it. Unless the goal is to watch the system fail and pretend it's not by design.
▶ 1:31:35Now, Congress did its job and the administration now needs to do theirs. Stop the sabotage and the imp and implement this law fully, swiftly, and in good faith. Democrats are watching. We're not backing down, and we will not let politics put lives at risk. And I'm personally happy that uh Elon Musk has left the scene. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:32:01uh Bolan, the National Business Aviation Association represents a wide range of small businesses and operators across the country, many of them based at regional airports that rely on federal contracts and grants. Now, the Trump administration is trying to dismantle the disadvantaged business enterprise program, a longstanding initiative that helps minority and womenowned small businesses fairly compete for those contracts.
▶ 1:32:30Are you concerned about the impact of eliminating the DBE program and uh what impact that uh elimination would have on small operators in your association and the business opportunities in the aviation industry Mr. Johnson, you're correct. Uh, business aviation does involve a lot of small companies, midsize companies. I think 85% of our members are small and midsize companies.
▶ 1:32:59Uh, a lot and some of them are disadvantaged businesses as well. Correct. That's correct. And so, shouldn't we be continuing the DBE Well, there are a number of programs that I think shouldn't we be continuing those?
▶ 1:33:17I I think what what we want to do is make sure that there is access uh and the programs that's what the DBE program tries to uh uh um make uh available is is uh to be able to get access. What's wrong with that? Probably not.
▶ 1:33:40Is it simply because it's a it falls under the DEI category and you don't want to talk about that right now to jeopardize whatever you're trying to protect? I understand. But let me move on. Uh Miss Nelson, at our last full committee hearing on the implementation of the FAA Reauthorization Act, one thing was clear.
▶ 1:34:00Our air traffic controllers are working under intense pressure, long hours, high stakes, and this atmosphere of fear created by constant political games is wearing them down. That's a heavy burden for anyone. But I imagine it's just as hard, if not harder, for flight attendants who are working exhausting hours at 30,000 ft, and they are responsible for the safety and well-being of every person on board.
▶ 1:34:29Can you speak to how the chaos and instability in these few months of the Trump administration has impacted flight attendants and others on the front lines of aviation safety? First of all, we count on our air traffic controllers and we're very concerned about the stresses that they've been under and our safety uh inspectors. This directly affects us on the job.
▶ 1:34:50If if we don't have a a system that is supporting us, there are questions from flight attendants saying, "Why are air traffic controllers being asked to justify their jobs? Why are they getting uh notices like everyone else even though it wasn't intended for them uh to leave? And why are their pensions being attacked? Um because this this kind of instability is not supportive of keeping people focused on safety.
▶ 1:35:18uh we know and I appreciate very much your question about flight attendants. We're in the middle of bargaining and trying to address some of these issues with the airlines. It's very difficult to uh do our jobs when you have all of this instability going on. And when we also see uh that demand is softening because people don't want to come to the US uh ticket prices are are dropping and as we're bargaining that that's a real concern too.
▶ 1:35:41Uh so everyone is concerned with that instability and it we know very well that in order to have a business work you have to have stability in order to invest in order to staff up in order to be able to do the work. So the attacks on pensions for federal workers and collective bargaining agreements uh we also feel on the job too and we feel that transition also into our discussions with the airlines. Thank you. My time is expired and I yield back. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Mr. heard for 5 minutes.
▶ 1:36:11Thank you very much. I want to ch thank Chairman Nells and the ranking member Cohen for holding this hearing. I represent a very large district in western and southern Colorado, Colorado's third congressional district. It's basically half the geographic footprint of the state. Uh, one of the facts that I blew my mind when I was originally running for office and I think surprises a lot of folks back east is that it's larger geographically than the entire state of Pennsylvania.
▶ 1:36:34So it is a big district and general aviation airports are crucial for accessibility for emergency services for a operations for economic development. Uh I wanted to ask Mr. Bolan now that the FBA is one year into implementing reauthorization how effectively has it implemented provisions intended to support and modernize rural aviation Well I think that was one of the really great accomplishments of the FA Reauthorization Act of 2024.
▶ 1:37:04As you well know, we saw the the funding levels for airports go from $3.35 billion to $4 billion with a lot of that specifically directed toward rural airports. And that's critically important because as you articulated, these airports are lifelines for rural communities. Uh they provide medical uh support, they provide emergency relief. uh they're there in times of disaster.
▶ 1:37:34We need to make sure that those airports have an opportunity to survive. They have an opportunity to do matching grants. And I think that's exactly what this committee had in mind. And I think that that it is a an enormous step for the United States to keep its leadership in every aspect of general aviation. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:37:57just it's critical what you're the these services in in airports in in rural parts of this the country for sure and it's important that we make sure we're continuing this implementation uh to help those rural parts of our country. Uh Mr. Pleasants, is the FAA doing enough to ensure general aviation airports have sufficient infrastructure funding during their implementation of the reauthorization? Is the FAA doing enough? Is that the question? Yes, sir. Uh that's a great question. I I don't I don't see evidence that they're not doing enough.
▶ 1:38:28However, um you know, some of the uh some of the examples I gave earlier around some of these smaller airports that are suffering from some of the fees, you do have examples out there where you've got singular FBOs operating in locations and to some extent take over the economics of that airport.
▶ 1:38:47And I think our concern from an FAA perspective is not as much enforcement of the grant assurance language around fair and reasonable fees that ultimately do affect the ability uh and attractiveness of the of the flying public to use those airports. Um and it's not every airport, right? This by and large a lot of the small airports call it in the middle of nowhere around the country are doing just fine.
▶ 1:39:07that there are a number of airports that are important access points to parts of the country, including out in your part of Colorado, where we do have concerns that we're seeing increasing evidence of fees going up, access to those airports going down, and the FA not doing as much as we believe they should do to ensure that the access to those airports remains viable. That's very helpful. Thank you, uh, Mr. Bolan. Back to you. Workforce development and retention are critical issues for rural districts like mine in Colorado's third district.
▶ 1:39:37Pilot workforce shortages have particularly impacted rural regions who've seen reduced service to their communities as a result and having a strong general aviation pipeline is key to ensuring that we have a strong supply of commercial pilots. What are some ideas or initiatives that your members have considered to address these critical aviation workforce shortages to retain talent in our rural communities? And has the 2024 reauthorization been helpful in facilitating aviation workforce development in rural areas?
▶ 1:40:06Well, I think the the bill itself did a number of really important things. It created some important grant programs and provided $20 million for uh for uh aviation maintenance technicians and a pathway to pilots. So, those are important programs. I think the challenge that we all have is how do we raise awareness of what these opportunities are.
▶ 1:40:30There are a lot of people that have not focused on the opportunities available through aviation or see themselves and what they see uh as something different and apart for a different segment of the community. I think the efforts to go into high schools, the efforts uh that are being made by organizations like AOPA with their curriculum are really important. I think we also need to focus on our ability to work with the technical schools and the community colleges.
▶ 1:41:00Another opportunity to make people aware of what is out there. So NBAA is working through its members. Uh fortunately we've got people in every congressional district. Uh and that gives us an opportunity to be part of the local community. We encourage career days at airports. We uh we encourage going into schools.
▶ 1:41:23We can't do enough to express the opportunities that are available, the life-changing opportunities in aviation and specifically general aviation. Wonderful. Agreed. Thank you so much. I see my time is expired. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Miss Brownley for five minutes. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Pleasants, uh I have a question about so-called aircraft kits.
▶ 1:41:46Um about a month ago, there was a fatal crash in Seami Valley, uh California in my congressional district, uh which involved a homebuild kit airplane that crashed into homes and killed, uh two people. According to the FAA, the FAA does not certify or approve aircraft kits.
▶ 1:42:06Um, can you comment on the current safety regulations around aircraft kits and the certification process and air worthy airworthiness reviews or maybe lack thereof uh for amateurbuilt kit aircraft? Uh, yes, absolutely.
▶ 1:42:24So part of what has made the US uh as as as much of a leader in aviation as it is is in large part because of our willingness to innovate and the whole they call it experimental aircraft or homebuilt aircraft movement has become a a giant part of this ecosystem. The aircraft you're talking about in Seami Valley was a Vans RV10. I'm very familiar with the accident. Uh Vans has produced more kit aircraft than any other company. Over 11,000 of them. the vast majority, 99 point whatever percent fly safely every day.
▶ 1:42:55Um, and so I I I'm a very strong supporter of that ecosystem. I think to me it's a great example of of how we as a country continue to innovate because many of the innovations that make their way into certified aircraft come out of the homebuilt or experimental area. To your point around not being certified, they aren't that you're right, they're not certified. However, that does not mean they don't have oversight from the FAA. They actually do.
▶ 1:43:16So, as these kits are built, and they're very well-designed kits with very well structured plans and and uh and um sort of instructions on how to do it, each major stage of build has to be overseen by an FAA licensed mechanic to basically authorize it to move on to the next stage. So, although they don't end up at the end being certified uh like a certified aircraft would be, they do end up with a level of inspection that ensures it was built in compliance with the manufacturer of the kit's recommendation. So, I personally am a big fan of it.
▶ 1:43:45I think it drives a lot of vitality. Um, accidents like that one were that was a weather related accident, not an aircraft related accident. It could have been any other kind of plane. So, I guess I would not want the general public to think that just since the word either experimental or homebuilt is used, it implies that there's a level of safety that is somehow given up. These aircraft are all still very, very safe aircraft. Well, I don't think NTSB has finished their investigation around that crash uh in my district.
▶ 1:44:12And um and I also know that FAA doesn't approve the kit manufacturers. I guess what you're saying is the way the system is right now is what you would prefer that there shouldn't be any further regulations uh uh around uh aircraft kits. That's correct. And if we discover there's a problem then a specific problem of course I would be very supportive of addressing that.
▶ 1:44:36But right now, I think the FAA oversight and then in partnership with AOPA, also the Experimental Aircraft Association of Wisconsin play a big role. We all have a vested interest in those aircraft being as safe as possible. Thank you. Um uh Miss Nelson, you know, this hearing is about implementation of the FAA authorization act.
▶ 1:44:54from your perspective um in terms of the administration and Doge cuts and the FAA workforce cuts um can you comment on if and how it has slowed down rule making and key priority priorities uh to keep moving forward on First of all, I I just want to note that as safety professionals, we learn the first rule in safety is to remove all distractions.
▶ 1:45:24So, while we have um I we very very much appreciate the leadership of Secretary Duffy pushing forward on trying to um modernize and staff up and and work with the unions on on all of that. Um but as at the same time to have the administration creating all of these other distractions, it is undermining the process.
▶ 1:45:47Uh and it and in specific areas of the bill that of course we're concerned about um doing away with committees, doing away with rulemaking committees. um that is jeopardizing the plans of this committee and the direction from this committee and all of Congress on what needs to be done in all areas of safety in order to lift us up. We're very very focused obviously on the modernization and staffing of air traffic control, but there are other portions of safety.
▶ 1:46:16You can't take any of those for granted and there's a lot of priorities in the bill that are being sidelined because of what DOE has done. Uh thank you for that. And uh one quick last question, Captain Revan, I wanted to just check in with you on the overseas uh maintenance stations and if you believe there's anything more that needs to be done to ensure uh our safety standards there. Uh thank you for the question, Congressman.
▶ 1:46:41Um I can only speak to, you know, the the Southwest Airlines and and our u methodology. uh we have a very uh very you know rich and robust uh safety and inspection uh where where we operate and and take those planes down in in South America. We we have our Czech airman corps who are our most highly professional uh you know overseeing the rest of our pilot group uh that have a specific uh non-rine flight operations certification.
▶ 1:47:08They go down there and do that and they they put those planes through their paces after they take them out of maintenance, turn off switches, uh turn off systems, turn them back on. Uh it's uh it's operating as it should. I think my time is done. So I need to hope I answered your question. Thank you. The gentleoman yields back. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Very proud to represent the great state of Wisconsin and it is home to many great general aviation airports.
▶ 1:47:36The municipal airport in Watertown, Wisconsin, for example, has experienced issues with the FAA's eligibility requirements for a runway expansion project. Specifically, the airport is struggling to secure airport improvement program, AIP, funding, even after conducting necessary environmental studies, rerouting a city road, and purchasing additional land for a buffer requirement.
▶ 1:47:58As the Watertown Airport has worked towards achieving AIP eligibility requirements, it's estimated the runway expansion project cost has ballooned from 2.5 million in 2005 to nearly $15 million today. The small airport fund of the AIP establishes a calculation to ensure that a required level of discretionary funding is used on small airports. So, Mr. Pleasants and Mr. Poland, if if you both could weigh in.
▶ 1:48:26What actions could be taken to help make AIP eligibility easier to obtain for for smaller airports? H, so that's definitely not my area of expertise. I've got I've got I'll call it sympathy for what feels like increasing levels of bureaucracy and and overhead that the airport's having to jump through.
▶ 1:48:46I think um you know this body putting some additional guidelines and in a sense requirements on the FAA to impose a level of what you might call reasonleness in what's required to justify an airport. I see a couple examples in other parts of the country where uh extra dollars are being spent in my view to actually make the airport less safe. Reducing the length of a runway for example or eliminating a cross runway that take dollars to uh to accomplish.
▶ 1:49:13So I I suppose it would be around this this body's ability to provide greater clarity on the ability to simplify the path to improving Yeah, I'll I'll follow up. Uh I agree with uh what Mr. Pleasant said.
▶ 1:49:30I think one of the things that we've recognized in the United States is that it it is difficult to build airports, build runways, and we want to make sure that we are able to create as many airports as we can. These are nodes in a system. The more nodes we have, the more valuable the system becomes. And as aircraft get bigger, we need longer runways and we need to have uh the safety uh buffers built in.
▶ 1:49:59So I I think what we really need to do is very much focus on what the impediments are and to address them. What you're talking about going from $2.5 million to $15 million. That has not served anyone and it's not increased the the health of Watertown and it hasn't increased the safety in the system. All right. Thank you, Mr. Bolan. One for you. How is business aviation being integrated into FAA modernization efforts?
▶ 1:50:27Well, I think we're part of the modern skies coalition and I think we recognize that the public airspace belongs to the public and making sure that we have access to airspace and airports is critical. I think that's one of the things that has made the United States unique and I think that that is our real strength. When we talk about things that will increase safety and increase efficiency, uh, coordination, communication, connectivity, that helps everyone.
▶ 1:50:57The more precise we can be, uh, in our flights, the more clear we can be exactly where we are with clear situational awareness, that makes everybody safer. And that's why business aviation, general aviation, labor, commercial airlines, we're all in this together. Is the FAA listening to and non-commercial general aviation airports? I I think the uh the uh airport office recognizes the importance of airports. I think as Mr.
▶ 1:51:27Pleasants has brought up, there are times when we would like to see more uh aggressive use of the part 16 efforts. Uh we know that in some communities developers or others uh like the idea of the land but but we want to make sure that we have a viable national system of airports and that's why we have the whole NPIUS program. All right. Thank you. Thank you all for being here today. I yield back. I recognize Mr. Dane for five minutes.
▶ 1:51:57Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you all for being here. Uh it's it's a combination of anxiety, but we want to be thoughtful to this. I've said this before. Um Mr. Chairman, I do hope that uh we're communicating with the administration and Secretary Duffy, who's a former colleague.
▶ 1:52:13I've heard him say make some comments after the terrible tragedy at DCA that indicated to me that he wasn't fully aware of the work we've done and our are doing in terms of going after more money which of course we would welcome from the administration but just that coordination and the wonderful leadership we had from Chairman Graves to get this to this point. So, and I'm really appreciative that we're we're continuing to stay on it. Um, Captain, I want to ask you a couple of things.
▶ 1:52:43First, in the short term, what are you and your pilots seeing on the ground about near miss's new technology that we're trying to get in? I know I bring this up all the time because it was my introduction to commercial aviation, the near miss 10 years ago at at uh the Air Canada flight um at SFO in my area where we came within 54 feet. if it wasn't for the co-pilot of the United plane, the first plane on the taxi way and all the work we put in a NOTMS.
▶ 1:53:14Um, what are you seeing from that perspective? Now, that's 10 years ago almost. Are have those things improved? Are pilots reading the NOTMS? Are there more digestible? And in the near term, has that created greater safety from the pilot's perspective? Uh, thank you for the question, Congressman. On on the NOTM part, it is getting better. they they are starting to be a little they're a little more decoded than they used to be. They're starting to be a little more condensed.
▶ 1:53:40Uh the packets that we tailor are very condensed for the areas that we're going and pilots are very responsible about reading those. Um our dispatchers are also fantastic for reviewing those and you know in a 121 operation making sure that you're safe and prepared uh for the the location you're going to. To your question on the ground uh it's getting better and better with the technology that's out there. We have the RAS, which is a runway advisory and uh uh a runway awareness and advisory system. I have to look at that acronym all the time.
▶ 1:54:09Uh and it starts letting you know, hey, you're getting close to a runway, you're getting close to a taxiway. It's in about 83% of our aircraft at Southwest Airlines uh and and ahead of schedule uh for for being 100% instituted. It's just another great tool. Uh the concern and what I see out there, the concern that I have is with air traffic control manning. Um, one of the pilots that was on the Midway flight, uh, he he brought up a great example with Secretary Guff Duffy.
▶ 1:54:37He said, "Hey, here in Denver, uh, routinely on, you know, on weekends, they'll go to one controller that operates both ground and tower frequencies." That's a problem. You know, that's a problem. And it's a manning problem. It's not being irresponsible. It's just having the coverage to do so. So as you know every commercial flight it's an orchestrated you know event between air traffic control the pilots the ground operations the flight attendants to get the passengers safely from a A to B.
▶ 1:55:04Uh so th those are some of our concerns just the manning and the coverage and I mentioned this just in the tower with the air traffic controllers again at SFO and the thing that was alarming was retention the burnout particularly in those areas that have lots of flights in the urban areas where the differential isn't enough. So, you think about attracting people into the field, whether it's pilots or air traffic controllers or mechanics.
▶ 1:55:29On the pilot side, I've heard um from some of my pilots uh talking about the training and that difficulty of the great training that so many pilots got in the military and now trying to get that in the private sector. And one just anecdotal story is younger pilots will start at a training school in Arizona to go work for a regional airline and have never really been in bad weather before.
▶ 1:55:53Could you and the anxiety that creates do you have any comments on that kind of scenario and how we can improve that? Absolutely. I think a good part of that is a, you know, experience and there's, you know, there's lots of moves to try to reduce uh there have been in the past and I applaud this body for maintaining, you know, the the strict 1500 hour rule for an ATP, but there's no substitute for experience. Uh, and often times folks will build those hours and they've never been in the weather.
▶ 1:56:21So, keeping that keeping that level of experience ensures that people have seen multiple different challenging, you know, environments and platforms. Uh and so uh we we do have fantastic young people that come to our airline and they have seen real weather scenarios and uh and they continue to see those with an experienced uh guy in the left seat. So uh I think it's working as it should currently and I applaud this body on their decisions.
▶ 1:56:46Melson, if I just briefly your your folks are right at the retail point. We've had a lot of problems with stress and anxiety COVID and postcoid. How's that working out? just briefly how how are you dealing with customers who are stressed? Um well uh it's a it's a real challenge and so more education and more communication.
▶ 1:57:09We did have you know very very clear communication from the FAA administrator repeatedly um and from the president in the last administration to make it very clear that people who acted out were going to jail. And that that continued um conversation and leadership from all of our leaders is very very helpful and we would actually ask for people to continue to be talking about that continue to be talking about the consequences and making it very clear what we expect of people when they come to the airport. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yield back. The gentleman yields back.
▶ 1:57:39I now recognize Mr. Shrieve for five minutes. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the lady and the gentleman for uh sharing time with us today. I represent uh central and eastern Indiana. I've got the Indianapolis uh airport in my district. We describe uh Indie as being at the crossroads of America. We've got uh an exus of uh federal highways uh that traverse there.
▶ 1:58:03Uh but as a consequence of that, FedEx has their second largest air cargo hub at IND and that is is growing by by volume. Uh, Captain Revan, you're you you you you move more passenger traffic uh through IND than any of the other passenger carriers.
▶ 1:58:21Um, we uh were successful in securing a $27 million um uh AIP grant and are rebuilding uh 5R uh out there and we're nearing completion on that. uh and that we'll get another 40 years out of that runway and that's just crucial to commerce uh uh both uh cargo and passengers.
▶ 1:58:46Uh but I wondered if if you could speak from a pilot's perspective as to the importance of that that hard infrastructure that that physical environment that that they're bringing aircraft in and out of Thank you for the question, Congressman, and absolutely support that uh you know, that project. Um you know, UPS flies in and out of there or FedEx, excuse me, flies in and out of there at a high volume. Um mostly they do it at night.
▶ 1:59:14Uh and that that gives them some efficiencies when they're more heavyweight, you know, and they need a little bit longer runway. Uh it makes the flexibility for us much better, too, with any kind of inclement weather. Uh so, uh fully in support. always excited to see another project like that and an option uh in a safety environment.
▶ 1:59:32Yeah, as with both Worldport just down the road in Louisville with UPS and at uh FedEx uh in Indianapolis, uh the the busiest times of the day are in the middle of the night when all that traffic is sequencing in through there. And so that that infrastructure really matters. Uh, Captain, I also uh toured Indie Center uh and I've been up in the tower before.
▶ 2:00:01Um, but we describe ourselves as a crossroads of America, but we've got a lot of traffic uh that Indie Center is managing. It moves from Atlanta into the Chicago area at different altitudes. And uh we're short on human talent at Indie Center just as we are uh across the country. Uh we've heard so much about the challenges in Newark uh that have acutely impacted United.
▶ 2:00:27I wondered if from Southwest's perspective there were pain points in the system that you would draw our attention to other than Newark. Sure. There's there's a lot of pain points in the system and it it did not come about in the last six months. you know, we've been seeing this decline, uh, or this this, uh, problem with air traffic control, manning, uh, you know, line of sight restrictions, etc. U, have a lot of problems down in Florida.
▶ 2:00:56you know, we one example where, you know, the the the Homestead Air Force Base radar shuts down on the southern tip of Florida and the whole Treycon at Florida shuts down, you know, and so they've instituted some great things with the uh you know, slowing down aircraft, doing the ground stop program to make sure they get those uh under control. Uh and and we have seen definite improvements.
▶ 2:01:17Um the manning continues to be uh a concern for us for air traffic controllers and uh you know I was talking a bit with NATKA uh yesterday and and they did a great job in this uh testifying body you know uh this last testimony uh with the challenges that they have and and we're we're just as supportive of them as we could be. They're they're absolute consumate professionals the controllers.
▶ 2:01:41Uh so we also applaud you for the grants uh and and getting in the high schools and getting in early and starting to highlight that profession uh and the need for it. We sorely need the talent. It would seem like it would be a profession that could be attractive to young people that you know grow up gaming uh you know if the hardware that they're working with uh was brought into uh in into the current century.
▶ 2:02:07I think that we would have the ability to pull young people into these uh cool, dark, windowless, bunkered sort of facilities uh as they move safely uh uh people and commerce around our country. But we are struggling with that at the moment. And part of that's a function of the very dated hardware uh that a DOS sort of world that they they come into and can't identify with. I'm determined to make some progress with this.
▶ 2:02:37Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Miss Fushi for five Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being with us today. Fume contamination occurs frequently on commercial flights. Nearly all commercial aircraft draw outside air through the engines into the cabin, which is then recirculated throughout the cabin.
▶ 2:03:00As we all know, the recent FAA reauthorization bill included numerous provisions to help address this issue, including a requirement to complete a study on the impacts of bleed air, the development of a reporting system for fume events that occur on board a commercial aircraft within 1880 days, and the issuance of formal recommendations to mitigate the impact of fume contamination on cabin air quality by
▶ 2:03:312027. Miss Nelson, while we look forward to the report findings and recommendations offered, what can be done now to improve flight attendant health and safety in the short term? Thank you very much. And I would also include our flight deck partners in this. Uh we uh actually issue a card to all of our members about air quality and what to do um how to recognize it and report it when you find it.
▶ 2:03:56This would be very simple thing for all airlines to do and to provide it to not only all the crew members but also maintenance. We have issues today where we will have um a a flight return to the gate because there is a report of uh dirty socks, the the smell that you get when you have that contaminated bleed air, a a report of people feeling headaches, feeling uh nauseous, and it will return.
▶ 2:04:22And it sometimes when the maintenance crew and the crews do not know what's going on with that um they will tow the plane away from the gate, deplane the passengers, keep the crew on board and fire up the engines so that the crew the flight attendants are subjected to those fumes again. So if we are if we're providing information to all of the pilots and flight attendants and maintenance, we will avoid very serious and unnecessary events like that.
▶ 2:04:51Um we'll hear from others if you care to Obviously we echo the same concerns and I appreciate uh uh the pilots have even one more concern that uh that that not everyone else deals with and that's the amount of radiation you know that's in the cockpit.
▶ 2:05:07So, one of the things we've engaged the company and and a lot of other carriers have too is that, you know, what what comes in the factory, the safety information or the safety equipment, uh, and the appeal that, uh, you know, carriers don't strip that safety equipment off like sun shades and things that can protect you from the UV. Uh, and then we look forward to also the outcome of that study, uh, on the bleed air. So, thank you for the question. Additionally, U.
▶ 2:05:33Miss Nelson, your testimony highlights the danger of radiation exposure to fertility and viability of pregnancy. While you mentioned no action has been taken at this time, what would you suggest um be done to increase radiation exposure education and safety for flight There is a form um on the FAA site that that could help you track your radiation exposure, but that that link is dead now.
▶ 2:06:02Um if we could direct the the FAA to make that available again and then encourage the airlines, there can be encouragement from Congress, there can be encouragement from the FAA to provide information to flight attendants and pilots to be able to track that and make good decisions for themselves.
▶ 2:06:18This is something that is done in Europe and flight attendants and uh pilots um can avoid flights when they are pregnant or they're trying to get pregnant um to uh be able to avoid that radiation exposure because this has been quite an issue not just with uh fertility other illnesses as well. But understanding your potential risks make helps you make choices to be able to avoid those risks. Thank you for that.
▶ 2:06:45And finally, we tend to forget that ramp workers play a role in commercial air travel because travelers do not interact with them directly. But the reality is that countless travelers rely on baggage handlers. When you consider the duties that they perform, we can see that this work can quickly become dangerous. In your testimony, Miss Nelson, you share that significant training challenges and hazard concerns persist for ramp workers.
▶ 2:07:13Can you share more about these challenges and concerns, highlighting which ones you believe are the most important or the most urgent for the FAA to address? Sure. A lot of this is about staffing up, of course, with the um uh assessment of what's happening across the airport, but what can happen right away is that um all of the airlines can be directed not to have uh ramp tasking schedules that are unrealistic with task times. These are things that are within the airlines control today.
▶ 2:07:42Avoid overlapping assignments and rush transition for these workers and of course uh education for everyone. We have had people die um over the last several years and it is unacceptable and inexcusable and it is it is part of the um part of the drive towards productivity in in very lowpaying jobs I will say with oftentimes without benefits and then also um asking them to do more with less.
▶ 2:08:12And so this is something that the airlines can actually step up on right away uh and make these situations better while the FAA is addressing the rest of the priorities here. Thank you for sharing that. I yield back. The gentleoman yields back. I now recognize Mr. McDow for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here to testify before the subcommittee today. Mr. Bolan, I I want to discuss pilot mental health uh and the recommendations in last year's reauthorization bill.
▶ 2:08:42As you know, aviation professionals such as pilots and air traffic controllers are required to report if they seek mental health care, but admitting to receiving mental health care uh can result in a bureaucratic paperwork shuffle at the FAA that prevents pilots from going back to work. Uh this is unintentionally punitive in my opinion.
▶ 2:09:06Um and and it it eliminates the incentives for aviation professionals to seek uh mental health treatment that they need. Um with that in mind, how would you recommend uh that the FA address this issue while prioritizing the safety um of our airspace first and foremost? Well, I think a couple of things are happening in this area.
▶ 2:09:29uh and I think as we heard earlier one in four adults is impacted by this issue. It is significant in scope and the risk are significant. So we've got to do things where we understand better what the options are. There was a aviation rulemaking committee and ARC put together on uh mental health uh that completed its work and has made recommendations.
▶ 2:09:58Then of course the FAA reauthorization act of 2024 focuses on uh the the the medical um aeromedical office but specifically focuses on mental health as well. So I think understanding more about what we are talking about and understanding those treatments uh we we heard Captain Revan talking about the peer-to-peer focus at his airport.
▶ 2:10:23I think the important thing is we find ways for people to come forward to destigmatize and then to take the appropriate steps based on what the situation is today uh not what has happened years ago uh or u finding new ways to move forward and there have there has been progress we have seen medications that are now available that were not before so I think we are making progress but I think this has to remain a front burner issue for everyone
▶ 2:10:53in the United States, but particularly the aviation community. Sure. Thank you, Captain Revan. Same question to you. How would you fix current policy to to ensure that pilots aren't punished for seeking help? So, thank you for the question, Congressman, and I I agree with what much of what Mr. Bolan said. Uh, in addition to that, we we've had some very productive meetings uh with FA administrator uh or flight surgeon, Dr. Dr. Northrup and she's been very open uh to our inputs.
▶ 2:11:22Uh the 8500 the form 8500 that you you know that that you accomplish when you're getting ready for your flight physical that that's in need of update. There's there's questions on there that just shouldn't be asked. I think that one should be asked differently. Sure. That that you referred to. Uh the amount of um look back that you have to to go to to go okay I have to keep track of each doctor's visit that I did for how many years. So I I told you that last year. So I'm just trying to do this form correctly. some of it's just redundant uh and it's overly burdensome on the member.
▶ 2:11:51That's probably the most important one to me that you mentioned about the pilot mental health question. Uh I think we need to look at how we word that and what we do with that information. Uh we have a group that uh that meets regularly and and uh I would be happy uh to provide you know some bullets. We did this for Secretary Duffy when he first kind of came out of the gate after the Midway incident. He said, "Hey, um what should we be looking at? what what and and our our go through our government affairs and and our our subject matter experts, we provided a a huge list of bullets.
▶ 2:12:21I would be really uh I would be hopeful that I could do that for you in this area too. As far as the form 8500 in the mental health, I appreciate and and uh Katherine, I got another question for you. Everybody in this room is familiar with uh the FAA's issues with outdated air traffic control equipment.
▶ 2:12:42In your testimony, you say that the FAA must move faster to address these concerns, but in your view, what, if anything, is preventing the FAA from moving quickly to modernize ATC equipment, particularly in light of of congressional support for equipment um, and recent directives from the secretary. So, so to me, it's a appropriations.
▶ 2:13:05So, we we've got the bill and we've decided how much money we've got to spend, but now we've got to responsibly put it uh where it needs to be to get those folks and and and delays. You know, I've heard this in the military a ton of times, and you've all heard this freedom isn't free, but I would say the same thing is even more so about safety. Uh we've got to get the the funds out there and get the money spent and get the projects underway, you know, as fast as possible to avoid another another mishap. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. The gentleman yields back.
▶ 2:13:35I now recognize Miss Gillan for five minutes. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses here today. Chronic underinvestment and lack of focus on the New York airspace poses a serious threat to the safety of our region and to our country.
▶ 2:13:52Multiple times over the past few weeks, radar and communication systems that help controllers direct planes in and out of New York airport failed for as long as 90 seconds at a time, leaving controllers unable to see or talk to planes in the area and resulting in major delays, cancellations, and leaving passengers stranded.
▶ 2:14:13These failures could have had deadly consequences and caused extreme mental anguish to the folks working uh in the Treycon and in the air traffic control space. I'm proud to represent New York's fourth congressional district on the southshore of Long Island. Uh and New York's air traffic control facilities, including Treycon N90, is in my district and is one of the most outdated and understaffed in the country. Yet, it manages the nation's most complex airspace.
▶ 2:14:44We must do more to address our outdated infrastructure and bring New York and our national airspace into the 21st century. I recently led a bipartisan group of my colleagues in sending a letter to the House Appropriations Committee urging the inclusion of critical language in the FY26 appropriation bill to prioritize New York airspace for modernization to increase efficiency, reduce congestion, and maximize runway capacity to better serve air traffic uh needs
▶ 2:15:15and keep our skies safe. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record this letter. Without objection. Thank you. So, Mr. Nelson, you mentioned the recent issues at Newark in your testimony. As your union pointed out last month, experts have been sounding the alarm for decades that the infrastructure must be rebuilt and must be modernized.
▶ 2:15:39How have your uh union members have been impacted by the chronic underinvestment in the New York airspace over the past few years? and what can Congress do to further facilitate the modernization effort? Thank you, Miss Nelson. Thank you. So, when flights are delayed or canceled, uh flight attendants are deterred from their schedules, too. This can have an impact on our pay. It can have an impact on just getting home to our families and having doing our duties at home.
▶ 2:16:09Um this and ultimately what happens is that our air traffic controllers are not going to run an unsafe system. So, they're going to slow down the capacity. Um, that will have um major economic impacts on the New York area and frankly on the rest of the country. Um, so much of our air traffic flows um in and out of the New York area. Um, specifically, the flight attendants who are based there have now lost their schedules in many cases because capacity has had to be cut.
▶ 2:16:40Um, that means that they're losing hours and opportunity for pay. Um it also means that they are often delayed many many hours um from getting home or rrooted or have other disruptions to their lives. Um so we have concerns first and foremost of course for safety and we thank our air traffic controllers for making sure that they always keep that safe for us. Um but we have got to do more and we support your letter to the appropriations committee uh to get this money out and get these programs going as quickly as possible.
▶ 2:17:09We're way behind here and um it is I'm glad that everyone is paying attention now, but we've been screaming it from the rooftops for over a decade. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Nelson. Uh Mr. Bolan, in 2022, you submitted written testimony to this committee on some of the work your association is doing to mitigate the impacts of aviation noise on local communities. In that testimony, you mentioned the importance of the FAA's next generation air transportation system initiative initiative or nextgen.
▶ 2:17:38In last year's bipartisan FAA reauthorization act, Congress required the FAA to expedite the implementation of a number of NextG programs and to develop a plan to accelerate the acquisition rates of next-gen systems in commercial aircraft fleets. Unfortunately, the FAA has failed to meet its deadline, leaving communities like mine vulnerable to the harmful impacts of aviation noise. How important is it that the FAA implement this provision?
▶ 2:18:08And what else can we do to mitigate the impacts of aviation noise? Well, I think that what we have seen is that when we began focusing on flight plans, the idea was to bring everything together um so that everything would be neat. Uh the problem with that is it exacerbated some of the noise over specific areas.
▶ 2:18:31So, we have done intentional displacements to try to spread that uh and make the impact less significant. uh but we do see that there are opportunities to potentially hold aircraft higher longer uh is one of the ways that that we believe that that noise in impact can be reduced.
▶ 2:18:51We also believe deeply in working with the communities to make sure we understand what their concerns are and they understand what the pilots are safe uh flying through as well. We don't want to compromise safety uh but we do want to fly friendly and that's why we've set up a number of working groups at various airports.
▶ 2:19:12Titoborough users group for example is is is one of those where we work to have a dialogue uh and the FAA has fac helped facilitate that but clearly there's more work to do to find the proper balance uh between uh flying safely and flying uh as a good neighbor. Thank you.
▶ 2:19:33Um, and just following up on that, uh, in terms of crowded airspace like the airspace over my district where you have flights coming into, uh, LaGuardia to JFK, also in that airspace is Newark as well.
▶ 2:19:50Is it possible to mitigate noise with rerouting when since it's such a crowded Well, obviously that's uh congestion creates challenges uh and that is as you have articulated some of the busiest uh and most uh complex airspace in the country. U I I think again focusing on how do we operate safely but where can we find additional ways to be more neighborly is uh is an appropriate endeavor.
▶ 2:20:21Thank you. I yield back. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Mr. under for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to all the witnesses here today. Um, Mr. Pleasants, you raised serious concerns about the misuse of ADSB data uh in lawsuits and fee collection. Could you elaborate on the privacy and safety risks of these um practices? Absolutely.
▶ 2:20:45Yeah, the ADSB aircraft equipped with ADSB basically put out a signal that that uh includes a lot of information include the altitude, the the speed of the aircraft as well as the registration number, the end number of the aircraft. Uh and that's essentially visible to anybody who's got a receiver to receive that data which is very easily obtained. And we're now beginning to see increasing evidence. There was one not that long ago up in Seattle area, just north of Seattle for example, where an individual was served with a lawsuit uh for an aircraft that had flown over his house. Not low.
▶ 2:21:14He was up at several thousand feet, but because the person on the ground, it's not someone who enjoys aircraft, he got the ADSB data, was able to identify who that was that was flying the airplane and filed the lawsuit for harassment. And he won't win the lawsuit, but that's an example of uh you know, of a burden on that pilot where since his privacyy's been uh been violated and he's now having to defend what was the completely legal activity.
▶ 2:21:37Yeah, I face I I'm a pilot myself and uh one uh one day a fellow pilot came over to my hanger and asked and told me a story. Um he he he this is Spirit of St. Louis airport in Chesterfield and yeah, he flew about 2,000 ft above above a plane and he got a demand letter, not a lawsuit, but a a demand letter.
▶ 2:22:01I understand also there are cases of airports or FBOs using ADSB data to enforce landing fees. Is this correct? There's a there's an increasing um increasing prevalence of that around the country where because the ADSB as I said earlier can be collected by essentially anybody that data is being used to assess various forms of fees. Oftent times it's landing fees. Uh and our concern is less that an airport charges landing fees. They're allowed to do that.
▶ 2:22:31uh we do we do care about them being fair and reasonable. Our bigger concern is the fact that ADSB data is being used for that which creates a deterrent. If you're if you're a pilot that has not yet implemented ADSB in your aircraft, you start to hear these stories whether it's about these frivolous lawsuits or about collection of fees and it becomes a disincentive to impulling that technology on your aircraft. And we're we at AOPA are very supportive of ADSP. It's a good technology.
▶ 2:22:55It does increase safety in the airspace system and we'd like to see more people choosing to employ it and these kinds of of activities are directly against that which in the end ultimately reduce safety and of course ADSB and maybe you could um elaborate on this isn't required everywhere correct but as the AOPA as a as a private pilot the FAA we'd like to see pilots using it everywhere but in a way we're creating an incent this this cottage
▶ 2:23:26industry monetizing because it's my understanding that that businesses are coming to FBOs's and airports and saying look we'll help you enforce your landing landing fees but with ADSB data. We're creating an incentive for not only pilots who maybe have older planes that don't have ADSB data now to but also PE patient planes that do pilots to turn the ADSB off by flipping the breaker. Yep.
▶ 2:23:55Yeah, that can happen. We of course don't encourage that. Uh we don't like that to happen, but that does create an incentive in the system for those kinds of behaviors. And so we're uh and you're and you're right, ADSB is not required everywhere. There are many places out in the the middle of the country that are far from other airports and far from other aircraft. And so there are still a number of airplanes that do not have ADSB installed. Uh and the kinds of activities that we're talking about here are absolutely a deterrent to putting that technology in.
▶ 2:24:23So the the AOPA has expressed concern about a patchwork of state laws to restrict ADSB data misuse. Um, how many in which states have implemented their own laws to address this issue? So, it's just it's early days, but Montana, for example, just passed a law that prohibits the use of ADSB for collecting of landing fees or fees in general, not just landing fees. Uh, I know it's it's going through the legislature in Minnesota at this time. Uh, I know there was a hearing on this exact topic in Pennsylvania just yesterday.
▶ 2:24:54And so, it's it's beginning to basically expand around the country. Of course, our concern is that on one hand, we're happy that that uh the states are taking notice of this and and are concerned as we are. Uh we are also though concerned about a patchwork of different laws around the country that just create a level of complexity that's it's not as good as if this was a national approach. So this situation begs for a federal approach. I think so. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Kahhoff for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:25:24Miss Nelson, our nation's aviation workforce is critical to maintaining the safety of our nation's airspace. This committee took action to assert the importance of this workforce by including various safety improvements in the bipartisan reauthorization. One of the issues that we took action on was the response cabin air safety and dealing with the toxic fumes created by engine exhaust and fuel fumes.
▶ 2:25:50Congress required the FAA to create a system for in-flight crew and mechanic mechanics to report fume events. Has the FAA moved forward with implementing this requirement? And are they going to be doing that in the near future? Um, so um we we hope that they are going to move on this more swiftly because we need this reporting feature. Right now, we're taking those reports in through our union.
▶ 2:26:21Are you aware of any timeline that they've come up with? I'm not aware. Thank you, Miss Nelson. As a member of this committee, we have heard from various stakeholders about the impacts the indiscriminate budget and staffing cuts have had on aviation safety. One of the issues you flag are the cuts to the National Weather Service.
▶ 2:26:40For the benefit of everyone here and everyone listening, can you elaborate further on how cuts by Doge to the National Weather Service impact Yes. And um you know, I have an update to my testimony as well because uh shining a spotlight on this um has appeared that there has been um an effort to try to uh restore the vacant positions that were created.
▶ 2:27:09um uh by Doge um with these um incentives for people to leave, but we're bringing on new people to fill these positions who have not been trained, who will have to get up to speed. And the problem is that we need to be providing real time uh updates to ATC and to our pilots um and our dispatchers about uh these weather conditions so that we can predict this and start planning in advance.
▶ 2:27:35So this undercuts our ability to plan and also uh to address issues like trying to plan uh to avoid turbulence which is a major major threat in my workplace uh for very serious injury. So it increases safety risks. It inc it increases safety risks. Yes. And I I do appreciate though the focus on this because it appears that the pressure is working to try to fix this.
▶ 2:28:00Um, but in an effort to create efficiencies, we've created an incredible inefficiency because now we're replacing these positions with people who need to be trained up and get up to speed on how to do the work. Um, and so if they would have just slowed down and talked to the people on the front lines about how to make these systems better and work efficiently as we have done in the past, we may have a better outcome here. Well, thank you.
▶ 2:28:24I think you highlight the fact that in the pursuit of finding efficiencies, the process was way inefficient to do so. So I appreciate you sharing that inefficient and unsafe or I it added safety risk I should say. Thank you very much. Mr. Pleasants, we know that we need to modernize our air traffic control system. The system needs to continue to enhance safety and promote innovation.
▶ 2:28:48Can you elaborate further from your organization's perspective on why we need to modernize the system? Uh absolutely. The uh the challenges we face today are are decades in the making. This is not something that occurred since January or even in the last uh last 5 or 10 years. Uh we as a nation have built a I call it a patchwork of technologies that enable the airspace system to operate today. As has been said earlier, it is the safest airspace system in the world. So uh it has worked.
▶ 2:29:17However, because it's a patchwork and you've got technology, some of which are decades old and I've seen the, you know, the evidence of floppy discs being used, you've got a network and I'm a an IT guy by background. I spent 20 years in the uh IT industry. Uh we have allowed ourselves to probably because of funding related constraints and others to build a patchwork of technologies that are incredibly expensive to maintain because of the the gap in new technology and old technology and having to have them all work together.
▶ 2:29:44uh and we have not taken a I'll call it a holistic view on what should the future of of general aviation look like or not generally but a future of the air traffic control system look like and how do we put in place a system that actually is built for purpose including eliminating the old technologies that to date we've dragged along from year to year to year and with it an enormous amount of overhead and and maintenance costs. Thank you.
▶ 2:30:09Uh are you aware that um as part of the reconciliations the fees were raised on hybrids and electric vehicles but only half of the money is going towards modernizing some of our systems. The other half is actually going for other things. I was not aware of that. No. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm out of time. I yield back. Gentleman yields. And I'll recognize Mr. Man for five minutes. Um thank you Chairman Nells and thanks for having this hearing today. Thank you all again for uh for being here and being willing to testify.
▶ 2:30:39I represent the first district, the big first district of Kansas. Aviation is a critical industry in Kansas as as you all know with roughly 100 general aviation airports, several commercial and regional airports, a huge footprint in aviation and aerospace manufacturing. The FA Real Act of 2024 included critical provisions to ensure that our aviation industries are able to improve services, bolster our workforce, and promote American innovation. Um, just a handful of questions uh for you, Mr. Bolan.
▶ 2:31:07As you know firsthand, Kansas plays a vital role in general aviation from aircraft manufacturing to training our next generation of pilots. As we look back one year after FA reauthorization, where do you see the most critical opportunities or shortcomings in implementing workforce provisions, particularly those workforce provisions aimed at strengthening technical education and expanding aviation careers in in the rural part of our country?
▶ 2:31:33Yeah, I think the the the bill was excellent in outlining the importance of workforce and in funding certain grant programs. The aviation maintenance technician program and the pilot pathway program are two outstanding examples of the focus on aviation careers that is necessary. And I think what we are seeing and and Kansas is a good example.
▶ 2:31:58Salina, particularly with Kansas State Salina with its focus on emerging technologies, a am unmanned systems um shows that as our industry is evolving, so too are the career opportunities. Uh I think the hard part for us is making sure people are aware of those opportunities.
▶ 2:32:19I think a lot of people uh do not see themselves as part of aviation but particularly as new technologies are coming in that has the ability to captivate and motivate people. I think we're seeing this as advanced air mobility is really beginning to draw attention. Drones commercial space launch there are a lot of opportunities. The more people are aware of it the more we have an ability to recruit, develop and retain the best and the brightest wherever they're from.
▶ 2:32:48I I agree which is right right into my next question. You mentioned Salina where you grew up my hometown. Um Salina's become a a test bed for emerging aviation technologies including unmanned systems and advanced air mobility. A year after FA authorization, how well in your view has the agency done in supporting innovation hubs like Salina by providing the regulatory clarity and infrastructure support needed to scale these technologies and ensure long-term industry competitiveness?
▶ 2:33:18Yeah, I I think what we're seeing is the FAA is recognizing the importance of innovation and the importance of bringing new technologies forward. And so whether it's signing the ESAR to enable advanced air mobility operations or the focus that we are seeing placed uh by uh this administration on things like the the drone technologies coming forward with the BV loss uh rules.
▶ 2:33:45I think all of that uh suggests that there is a need for hubs uh as we like to call them places where industry, academia and government can come together and uh Kansas State Salina is is an example of that. Yeah. Yeah. Um last question again for you Mr. Bolan a little different direction. In your testimony you discussed the urgent need to overhaul our nation's air traffic control system which this committee has talked a lot about. Um you brought up the topic of ATC privatization.
▶ 2:34:13You mentioned Nav Canada is often held as an example of a system that works but that it actually overpromises and underdelivers. What did you mean by that? Well, I think there are a couple things inherent in that. One, uh, IO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, has done a safety audit of Canada and what they concluded was that it was operating on a scale of 100 at about 65%. Mhm.
▶ 2:34:42Uh it is the lowest rating of any G7 country and is lower than 38 other countries. So safety is an issue and they talk about the inability of Transport Canada to really oversee NAV Canada, the air traffic system. We also see reports coming out about terrible uh shortages in air traffic controllers uh delays that are coming out.
▶ 2:35:06We saw just last week a a pilot uh got on the microphone and said, "We're being delayed because we don't have enough air traffic controllers." Uh and then it focused on uh an operator and owner of a small airport in Vancouver that talked about uh 20 minute to twohour delays are routine and they're only flying 20 minute legs. So uh so I think uh a lot has gotten ahead of itself about what they have in Canada.
▶ 2:35:35The reality is the United States has the largest, the safest, the most efficient, and the most diverse mix of aircraft and operations in the world. This is about finding ways that America, our innovation, and our ingenuity can take us forward. Well, thank you for the insight and thank you all for being here. I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Garcia. Five minutes. Thank you, uh, Chairman, Ranking Member, and of course, uh, the witnesses here, uh, today.
▶ 2:36:02Uh, Miss Nelson, I appreciate uh you including in your testimony an update on section 438 of the FAA bill requiring the GAO to complete a review of airport service uh workforce and they've committed uh to comply with its due date later this year. I agree with you.
▶ 2:36:26Airport workers are the foundation of our air travel system and for too long uh they've been denied a living wage and benefits like paytime off or health care. Uh GAO recently updated us on this review and they stated that it would be formally issued in September. Of course, this is just the first step.
▶ 2:36:48A public working group needs to be convened by DOT to discuss the report's finding and inform ways to further support this workforce. Uh Miss Nelson, why is it important that the Department of Transportation convened this working group to discuss the analysis one?
▶ 2:37:09and why our better wage and benefit standards as my good jobs for good airports bill would accomplish important for our air travel system. Thank you very much for the question um Congressman Garcia.
▶ 2:37:27Um so first and foremost every single person from the people who are working in the kitchens to the people who are pushing the wheelchairs um they are all part of the safety ecosystem and in many cases these are jobs that are um low paid usually without benefits.
▶ 2:37:46Um what we see is that when workers can get a credential to work at the airport that oftentimes they will get jobs doing several different things in the airport and and sleep at the gates in between shifts. Um this is a problem with uh fatigue with u missing something with making a mistake.
▶ 2:38:06It's also it's also it also leaves us vulnerable because people become desperate and so it is not it's not good safety culture to set people up for failure in their lives and um I I have real concerns just in terms of aviation and how we are lifting everyone up in that space and helping everyone understand that we're doing something together.
▶ 2:38:30We can't do something together when some people are treated as second and third class citizens uh without benefits, without the ability to pay for their homes and without public transportation to be able to get back and forth between their homes. They oftentimes will go days without seeing their families because they can't afford to go um home and come back for these shifts that they have to work in order to just keep people fed and uh in a home oftentimes with many families. Thank you.
▶ 2:38:55Uh, Miss Nelson, uh, recent incidents, including the tragic collision over DCA, remind us how urgent it is for full implementation of the FAA bill is. At Midway Airport in my district in Chicago earlier this year, a Southwest Airlines flight had to perform a goaround to avoid a jet that had crossed the runway. I'm grateful for the pilots and the actions taken to avoid a potential disaster.
▶ 2:39:26It's another reminder of the importance of upholding strong safety standards in our aviation system. This includes updating obsolete equipment. The surf the surface surveillance radar used at Midway Airport is composed of parts that are no longer being made, forcing the airport to look for replacement parts at other airports.
▶ 2:39:50Uh, Captain Revan, uh, can you tell us what can be done to prevent runway incursions like the one that occurred at Midway in the future? Uh, thank you for the question, Congressman. You hit it on the head to start with. The surveillance equipment has got to be updated. The line of sight has got to be worked out with the towers. One of the things I heard in the testimony before this body last um was a very disturbing we spend 90% on our legacy equipment and 10% on innovation.
▶ 2:40:21That that's got to change if we're going to uh but and then the last one, you know, I'd put the plug for it's it's absolutely essential to have two pilots in a commercial aircraft. Two pilot compliment. um this uh pilot monitoring uh and and then also there were some things that came out of that where there was a narrative that oh the the pilots were disregarding somehow the air traffic controller and and they needed to be punished and like I said it's it's a collaboration it's teamwork there's a positive safety
▶ 2:40:51culture of reporting and and learning from one another so all of those kind of holistically together but the the the 90% 10% uh was really to hear from the air traffic controllers testifying uh in this last hearing. We've got to get that shifted. Thank you. And again, thanks to all the witnesses. U my time's up. I yield back. Uh chairman, gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Not for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the witnesses, thank you all for being here.
▶ 2:41:19This has been a a uh very productive discussion. I've got some uh some questions I would love to ask. But before that, let me just reiterate that that from my district, the 13th of North Carolina, there are small um airports all over my district, all over the state, they're regional airports, North Carolina, even international airports, and we certainly appreciate all the contributions that each of you make to having a safer um a safer aviation environment.
▶ 2:41:47I will want to discuss this though. There is obviously the need to discuss appropriations, but there's also the need to discuss the efficiencies. I mean, Captain, you just mentioned that we are committed to anequa technologies and so forth. And internally, it seems like there are some very real inefficiencies and some sluggishness and um in in terms of rebuilding the processes internally so that the FAA can have more flexibility. I'd love to go down that line if we could. And Mr. Bowen, I'll start with you.
▶ 2:42:17Given your experience, what are some ways that I mean quite literally we can avoid having to to require an act of Congress to go from floppy discs to cloud servers? Like how can we how can we give the flexibility needed to the agency to modernize and progress? Well, well, I think the uh the FAA bill gave some pretty clear directions on the importance of digitization of a number of the processes.
▶ 2:42:43uh we literally had a situation where a piece of paper could be buried on a desk and people weren't coming to the office so no nothing was going anywhere. The digitization is going to be a big help. I think some of the the leadership is also really important. We've talked about the medicals for example and I know uh the flight surgeon uh Dr. Northrup has talked about how important it is to be able to track where your things are.
▶ 2:43:10you shouldn't be able to know more about a pizza being delivered to your home than where your medical is right in the process. So I think those are some of the opportunities and then I think uh what has been described as kind of the the build the new system and be able to gather all of the efficiencies from better connectivity better situational awareness throughout the system.
▶ 2:43:33What are the ways to to check and to make sure that those implementations are being done efficiently so that we don't add to the waste but we remove waste in your experience? And and I and I think that's exactly what we're doing here today. Uh when when this oversight committee brings oversight and is able specifically like you were a couple weeks ago to ask the FAA where is this report that said you will do the following things?
▶ 2:44:01And I think what you are asking them to do is is very intentional to drive results that are going to increase safety and increase Mr. Pleasants, I want to ask you a few questions. I saw in your biography that you are a former Bush pilot in Alaska. And there are lots of uh small uh plane pilots in North Carolina. I've had the chance to use Bush pilots in Alaska. They're the best pilots in the world in many respects.
▶ 2:44:27In your opinion, is the FAA sufficiently accommodating those sort of legacy pilots um with the freedom and flexibility and really avoiding the sophistication required to go through a bureaucratic ring roll that seems to be the case for newer uh younger pilots? Uh I think so. in general.
▶ 2:44:46I mean, the uh the the current environment, especially with, you know, as Mosaic I hope gets across the line this summer, um there have been innovations like Mosaic that will make it easier for young pilots to get into aviation and and learn in small aircraft that uh lower the overall cost, the burden basically to become a pilot. Uh I think the rules in general so far have remained quite um open to making it easy for people who do want to do backcountry flying.
▶ 2:45:11You've got organizations like the Recreational Aviation Foundation who whose whole mission is to preserve these backcountry airports around the world or around the country. Um, and I think they've done a good job and the FAA from what I've seen has so far been generally supportive of that. Great. If that does if that ever ceases to be the case, I trust you'll let us know. No, we would we would raise that very quickly. Yes, sir. One thing I might add, if you don't mind, just to to Mr. Bolan's comment too, you asked about efficiency and and from an IT perspective.
▶ 2:45:36Uh I do think there's a prepoundonderance of intention in the FAA historically at least to customize what gets put in. Everything's got to be just exactly the way they need it. And having done a lot of work in it over the years to the extent that they can take more commercial off the shelf and not try to customize every single thing, that will be an important step forward in a more efficient implementation of the systems.
▶ 2:45:59Uh, Captain Revan, just just briefly, I've heard from numerous pilots that the um sort of the the the there's a great need for the medical office reform in the FAA that they still utilize snail mail, which was just astounding to me to hear and that pilots can be placed on, you know, inadvertent leave for six, seven weeks just from a process standpoint. How can we improve that process for the pilots? I thank for the question, Congressman. First, I'd like to take exception to your comment about Bush pilots being the best pilots.
▶ 2:46:29But after that, I would say that that that work is underway. There is improvement and this is uh you know, like u um Miss Nelson said earlier, these problems are 10 years old. You know, that we're starting to kind of see the light with this 53 person coalition. We're all kind of pulling from the same side of the rope now. Uh and we are seeing great improvements. Uh some some of the um the ones that we've seen at Southwest Airlines, some of our pain points have been deferrals versus denials.
▶ 2:46:57Uh and then just the timeliness of hey, what do I need to get in to make sure that my, you know, physical is, you know, is deferred. And unfortunately, that could come at a time where your physical's due. Y So, you're not on any type of benefit, but you're sitting home without a qualification. So, uh Dr. North's office has been fantastic about trying to work these onesie twoosies. Uh but we still have that situation in the pipeline where you know it's one big stack with both general aviation and with professional aviators.
▶ 2:47:27So we're trying to kind of work through that with her office. Great. Thank you, sir. My time is is over. I yield back. Gentleman yields and I'll now recognize Miss Po for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I'm I'm very happy that this committee is continuing to focus on the critical issue of airline safety by ensuring uh full implementation of the FAA reauthorization bill act, pardon me.
▶ 2:47:53Last month, um, I was proud to join the subcommittee chair, the vice chair, the and the ranking member in seeking for robust funding for FAA operations and for the equipment that they used to safely direct flights.
▶ 2:48:10This is in addition to the emergency supplemental funding I called for with many of my New Jersey colleagues to address the technology and equipment failures that have led to the delays and chaos at the Newark airport. This funding is absolutely vital in helping in helping to resolve the disruption at NORC and airports around the country.
▶ 2:48:35I appreciate all of our witnesses uh for highlighting the continued need for FAA to implement critical provisions uh from reauthorization. Mr. Bolan, if I may start with you, I'd like um I represent Terborough Airport, which is an important uh business aviation hub. The breakdown at the Philadelphia Treycon have impacted airports around the Northeast including Teter Boral.
▶ 2:49:05Is FAA doing enough to manage the telecon failures in the short and long term? And how will modernizing uh the air traffic control improve communication systems and the subsequent effects of these systems uh breakdown? Well, I think when when we look at Newark, we understand that the failure largely was a result of copper wires.
▶ 2:49:33Uh there there was uh two lines of redundancy. We now are adding a third line. We're bringing in uh fiber optics. So, in that specific instance, I think we're moving forward and I think that's an example of what we need to be doing across the country.
▶ 2:49:50uh making sure that we have the infrastructure whether it's fiber whether it's radios whether it's uh radar I do think we will also have an opportunity because s situational awareness will improve we'll be able to be more precise in how we are moving the aircraft and while congestion is congestion we will be able to see uh more opportunities uh to have more precise uh routings that can allow different options to
▶ 2:50:21uh be able to shorten ground holds and and to be able to move forward. Right. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. Um quickly, and I know I want to just try I have several questions, so I'm going to uh uh quickly go to Captain Raven. Um you've advocated for uh air traffic controllers to have access to flight decks uh flight deck as part of their training. How would that improve safety? And how would you uh h how do you believe Congress can help in that regard?
▶ 2:50:52Thank you for the question, Congressman. It's it's about teamwork. Uh as I said earlier, this is an orchestrated, you know, ground ops, pilots, flight attendants, air traffic control, all safely taking you from A to B. We do this with our dispatchers. Our dispatchers ride up front. Uh and so the messages they send us, the weight and balance they provide, the fuel, they're able to see when they ride on a quarterly basis what it is we're looking at on our side uh of the radio and it helps us to form that that sort of shared mental model of how we're doing business.
▶ 2:51:21Uh the same thing could be done and air traffic controllers used to be able to do this where they would ride in the cockpit and you know they're giving us instructions but now they can see what we see on our screen, right? Okay. Uh and so it's it's very helpful uh for that you know that teamwork uh type of model that we have for them to be able to have that access. So what you could do would be to expedite the you know the you know the security uh process that they would go through to be able to do that. Thank you. Thank you so very much. And and quickly I have uh this question is for Miss Nelson.
▶ 2:51:51In your testimony, you highlighted two provisions in the reauthorization where you aren't aware of any progress from FAA with regards to the turbulent related injuries and radiation exposure. Uh can you please share how these risks can in fact harm crew members and what type of information you're hoping to be to see included in the required reports? Thank you very much for the question.
▶ 2:52:20uh turbulence is uh an in a very very serious injury uh potential injury in the cabin and we have a lot of flight attendants who are harmed by this. So implementing these procedures and best practices is critically important if we want to keep injury rates down um and if we want to uh move forward to try to avoid the potential of injury for passengers as well. Um, in terms of the radiation, um, we do almost nothing in this country.
▶ 2:52:49And as I said earlier, there is an a, uh, radiation exposure form that you could go to and check your potential radiation exposure on the FAA site. That form is or that link is currently not working. So, um, we're going backwards instead of forwards with the bill. Well, that's a shame and we certainly need to do something about that. Thank you so very much. Oh, it looks like I still have real quickly if um actually on the other side. I'm sorry.
▶ 2:53:17Now you're I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so very much, Mr. Beg. You're Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um just a few stats about my home state of Alaska. 82% of communities are not on a road system. 391 public use airports. We have the second most airports of any state in the United States, but we are 48th in terms of population.
▶ 2:53:46So, air service is essential in Alaska. I appreciate the committee holding this important hearing on the Federal Aviation Administration as safe and efficient air transportation is important for all Americans. Specifically, I want to point out that essential air service is critical for 65 rural and remote communities in my home state of Alaska. EAS is vital for rural connectivity, access to health care, and economic development. This program supports communities across my state like ADAC, Aatan, and St.
▶ 2:54:17Paul, and many other remote locations that lack any viable alternative transportation options. The program sustains access to basic services and economic opportunities in regions that otherwise would be cut off entirely. It is also important to point out that many of the smaller and more remote airports in Alaska and in the rest of the United States are close to and serve the regions where major oil and gas, mineral, timber, fisheries, and other resource development activities take place or will take place as we unleash our
▶ 2:54:47energy potential. So with that as a backdrop, uh first I'm going to start with Mr. Pleasants. Um, you know, Alaska's unique dependence on aviation for daily life and economic activity is unlike any other state, as you are well acquainted. Uh, what are the most critical FAA investments or policy actions that can directly improve safety and service reliability for Alaska's rural communities? Great. Thank you for the question. Yes, there's no more beautiful place in the world than Alaska.
▶ 2:55:16And I had the privilege of living in Taleta for a while and Anchorage and then essentially getting to see almost the entire state. never quite as far as ADAC, but almost everywhere else. um you know as you said it's a very expansive uh geography and so access to weather information is one of the most critical uh technologies could be implemented and I know the FA has been doing that but I think there's more that could be done whether that's uh the ASOSes at airports that provide localized weather and real-time weather or the webcams that are increasingly being rolled out across the straight across
▶ 2:55:46the the state that just make it easier to understand weather especially through passes that get used by virtually every pilot going from west to east or east to west across the Alaska range. Thank you. And just to expand on that a little bit, are there any policies or implementation areas where rural states like Alaska need additional flexibility or targeted resources to meet their safety and operational needs?
▶ 2:56:12Um I mean the one that I'm most aware of right now would be around for this this transition to unled fuels. There are some very unique requirements up in Alaska that um fuel is only delivered typically twice a year on barges when the rivers aren't frozen and uh and so getting you know replacements of fuels as we make this transition to unled fuels. Alaska needs to be taken into consideration with a very unique understanding of the constraints that the state faces. You're 100% right and I appreciate you bringing that up. That is a top priority for us.
▶ 2:56:40Um one additional question and this one directed uh to Mr. Robbins. Mr. Robbins, how might we leverage advanced aviation technologies like drones or hybrid aircraft to make EAS routes more sustainable and reliable in Alaska's challenging weather and geography? Yeah, thank thank you very much for that uh that question, Congressman. And actually in preparation for this hearing, I connected with Kathy Cahill, who's the director of the UAS test site in your state.
▶ 2:57:06Uh, and truly, she's testified before this committee before and truly a leader in in trying to achieve exactly what you're what you're talking about, which is being able to use drones and other autonomous systems uh in in places that are otherwise dangerous or very hard to reach. Whether that's for package delivery, uh whether that's for medical delivery, um some really unique use cases on emergency response, uh as well as uh search and rescue.
▶ 2:57:29um being able to put up high altitude long range endurance uh autonomous systems to to find people that that are lost or to deliver uh you know something like an AED or uh something like that that's that's required. So Kathy's leading the way uh in Alaska and frankly throughout the the entire country and we're very proud of her leadership. Well, I appreciate that and I'm I appreciate your due diligence in reaching out to her. She is a leader. She has testified before this committee. We certainly enjoy uh hearing from her when she has uh uh comments to share or new research to share.
▶ 2:58:00And uh please reach out to our office if you see some ways that we could start working on some of these technologies together. There are some challenges. So we will reach out. Thank you sir. Thank you very much. And with that I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Schultton for five minutes. Thank you Mr. Chairman uh and madame ranking member and welcome to uh our distinguished panel of witnesses.
▶ 2:58:21We really appreciate your time today and your commitment uh to making our airways uh as as strong uh and safe as as they can be. I am so proud of our committee's work on the bipartisan FAA reauthorization of 2024 at a time of uh immense gridlock and infighting in Washington. I often point to our work uh on that bill as a a beacon of hope.
▶ 2:58:48Um, and it is more important now than ever that this law is swiftly implemented so that that good work does not go to waste. Uh, we have the safest and most complex aviation system in the world and we have to work together to keep it that way. Uh, so the committee's bipartisan FAA reauthorization included vital enhancements for uh, the aviation workforce development program as you well know. However, the implementation of this critical program seems to be lagging.
▶ 2:59:17It's my understanding that the fourth round of applications submitted by the February deadline for the existing pilot and maintenance grants are now in limbo with applicants being told that they will have to resubmit once a revised notice of funding opportunity is issued whenever that may be. Meanwhile, we have seen no movement in standing up the new aviation manufacturing elements of the program, something that is is critically important to my district district. Uh, Mr.
▶ 2:59:47Pleasants, have you or members of your organization received any updates or insights from the FAA about the status of these workforce development initiatives? And if not, how is the delayed implementation hindering workforce development efforts that are necessary to bolster aviation safety? So we have been part of the effort to embrace the workforce development intentions behind the the language that was in the I think it was the Knack National Center for Advancement of Aeronautics.
▶ 3:00:17I don't believe it got implemented last year or got included in what was sent to the Senate. So in the final bill at least as I understand that it was not included. However, we have been recipients of a grant along coming out of those efforts and we've got uh our high school program for example that was mentioned earlier. We've had over 100,000 uh young individuals, high schoolers who've gone through that program and it touches on not just becoming a pilot but all various professions in the world of aviation including maintenance. So I think progress there.
▶ 3:00:46However, as I understand it, it's nowhere near what was intended uh originally and from what I understand at least the FAA is not set up currently to truly be able to implement this. they're they're they don't have the workforce themselves in place, the dedicated resources in place to actually execute on the intentions of this plan. So I think I think they are falling short. Yeah. And and what if any impacts do you see that currently having now or if these delays continue what what impacts would you would you foresee?
▶ 3:01:15Uh well I think yes there are impecc now in the sense that there are people who are not uh getting opportunities to develop skills that would allow them to participate in this in this aviation ecosystem you just described. Uh and as was said earlier by Mr. Bolan uh you know these are these are uh there's people out there today that would absolutely benefit that just don't even know about these programs. So that's part of what we're doing at AOPA is try to get the word out that there are enormous opportunities in the world of aviation.
▶ 3:01:42There are programs like our high school program and others that seek to help educate these younger folks around the opportunities there. Uh but there's a lot more that could be done and I think this this program that's not yet fully going is a gap. I couldn't agree more. The the the need in the workforce and the incredible opportunity that would provide for so many of our young people. Well, we'll keep asking the questions and and doing what we can to provide the oversight to move these uh programs ahead. Um one more question.
▶ 3:02:11My district is home to several uh innovative domestic aviation manufacturers as I referenced in my question. Unfortunately, the administration's imprecise trade policies, including the president's recent calls to double tariffs on imported steel and alum aluminum are harming the very manufacturing base they claim to defend.
▶ 3:02:32Um, to help navigate the White House's chaotic, ever- evolving trade measures, I am working on legislation to best support American workers and manufacturers while lowering costs for consumers across the country. This this is critical. Um, Mr. Bolan, can you touch on how proposed or implemented tariffs are impacting members in your business, your your members businesses?
▶ 3:02:55Well, I think one way to look at it is uh to look at what has happened over the last 45 years when we had over 30 countries operating in basically a duty-free environment. So, 1980 agreement on trade and civil uh aviation has been able to help the United States dominate virtually every aspect of aviation.
▶ 3:03:23We have uh $120 billion dollars that comes in every year uh as a result of our exports. Uh the flip of that is we spend about 20 billion. So it's over a hundred billion dollars to our economy when we are operating with free fair reciprocal trade.
▶ 3:03:44And uh that's something that uh NBAA and I think a lot of others uh uh submitted for comment yesterday as the section 232 hearings uh or investigation is underway at the commerce department and certainly something that we've made clear with that agreement. We we've seen that fair, free reciprocal trade allows the US to dominate as we have in every aspect of aviation for decades. Thank you.
▶ 3:04:14My time is expired. I yields. I now recognize Mr. Brushen for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to underscore a major theme of today's hearing. Safety. Um, aerospace safety is very personal to me. I am a licensed certifi uh certificate holder for Rotocraft as well as a part 107 holder and in the spirit of full transparency, I am a uh duespaying member of your organization.
▶ 3:04:41Um I live I represent northeastern Pennsylvania which is approximately a 120 miles away from Newark uh where we have five airports with inside of our congressional district. We have Wyoming Valley, Cherry Ridge, Mount Pocono, Wilsbury Scranton International Airport as well as Hazelton where I also had the privilege of visiting the Treycon over the weekend as well as the air traffic control tower. Um and really got to see firsthand.
▶ 3:05:08That was the first time I was able to put a face to a voice as to someone I speak to so frequently. Um, and I know safety matters to each of us here and to the pilots, the flight attendants, the mechanics, air traffic controllers, ground crews, passengers, and their families who we all uh represent. While I wasn't in Congress last year when the FAA reauthorization was passed, I'm proud to work alongside my colleagues this Congress to advance aviation safety.
▶ 3:05:32Um, I'm also very proud to have supported the $ 122.5 billion funding bump for ATC modernization in HR1. Um, as well as alongside Congressman John Garmendy from California, we're leading a bipartisan letter asking the FAA to reject any proposal to allow single pilot operations and commercial airline operations. Um, I guess my question really surrounds ADSB and perhaps maybe with Mr. Robbins and Mr. Pleasants. Um, I'm a helicopter pilot.
▶ 3:06:02Oftent times I fly at relatively lower altitudes and I had read in your testimony, Mr. Robbins, about the need for broadcasting on all various different types of aircrafts. And I know obviously in controlled airspace we're more inclined and uh regulated to do so. But Mr. was I'd be really interested to get your perspective on ADSB in all airspaces. Sometimes northeastern Pennsylvania predominantly a rural area.
▶ 3:06:30Um, sure we have in and out, but aircraft comes up relatively quickly, specifically in darker environments, uh, you know, sunset environments. And I actually agree with the the concept that we should be more proactive in broadcasting positions, um, specifically with, um, with gliders and roercraft. And now with the evolution of unmanned uh aircraft, I think it's something that we can uh at least me personally I'd be happy to support. So Mr.
▶ 3:06:57President, I'd be happy to I'd be interested to get your perspective from uh your organization and what you're hearing from your pilots. Yeah, thank you for the question. I think it's an important one because we all have a vested interest in aerial vehicles not encountering each other in the sky. And I think ADSB is a a critical technology that enables that, enables that separation.
▶ 3:07:15Uh and you're right, it's not required in all airspace around the country, but increasingly a lot of the lower altitude airspace, whether it's helicopters, uh uh aerial eggplanes, basically crop dusters, uh unmanned aircraft that perhaps are out in these more remote locations. Uh we want those all to avoid each other. So I'm personally in our organization is a proponent of ADSB adoption with two caveats. One is I think there's an opportunity to make it easier to adopt uh basically portable ADSB units.
▶ 3:07:44They use these in Europe all the time and balloons and hang gliders and uh and powered parachutes and so on. There's no electrical system required, but they serve the core purpose of emitting a signal that says I'm here and allows other aircraft to see them. Uh the second one is the privacy one I mentioned earlier. Anything we're doing in this country that dissuade people from using that technology, I think is a step backwards. And so we'll continue to advocate for improving the the motivation for as many pilots as possible to adopt that technology.
▶ 3:08:11being from Pennsylvania, I'm really excited to see the outcome of today's uh state legislature uh hearings and what actually unfolds behind it. But and I also read in your testimony um about the privacy concerns amongst pilots and I've heard it as well too and there's a very solid campaign right now going around at local FBOs about you know the the infringement there.
▶ 3:08:32But I was wondering if there was any more concrete examples that you can point to where a pilot or an aircraft owner received a citation relevant to the ADSB information that was trans that was actually sent back to the FAA and I'd be really interested to see some of that. Yes, absolutely. There's a very tangible one with a sea plane pilot up in Connecticut that was doing touch and goes on a river and um and somebody called in and reported the aircraft for low flying, but uh it was of course taking off and landing.
▶ 3:09:01So that's what you do is you go up and you come down and you're typically not very high. And so there was a claim made that this pilot was flying exceedingly low. And the only data that was in support of that was ADSB data. And as you know, ADSB data is only so accurate because it it operates off a pressure altitude and has to be adjusted for barometric pressure. And so what you see get read by the system may or may not be exactly how high that aircraft is off the ground. So that's a very tangible one where that pilot has currently lost their license and is fighting to get it back. I I also get emails almost every week.
▶ 3:09:30one just a week ago or so uh out in Seattle area where there's aircraft out there doing perfectly legal uh safety training basically turns around a point and they're getting the FAA out there the FISTO office is getting emails from a neighbor who's just not happy with the fact they're doing that and they're pulling up pictures of that airplane and the uh the end number and the ownership of that airplane every time and it's not one airplane there's many that go to do the training there and so I think it's a further example of of how in this case the FA has not gone after the pilot they're trying to educate the person on on the ground,
▶ 3:10:00but it's creating a level of a dynamic that's not helpful, let's just say, from from both a safety as well as the fairness perspective. I appreciate that insight and appreciate all the witnesses for being here today. And uh aeromedical reform will be a continued conversation since I am out of time. And with that, I yield back. Thanks. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Norton. Five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 3:10:23uh the tragic collision near DCA earlier this year and several recent near misses at and near air at and near airports across the country demonstrate that swiftly implementing the safety and workforce provisions of the FAA reauthorization act of 2024 must be a top priority.
▶ 3:10:50However, there are actions the Department of Transportation and the FAA can take beyond these provisions to improve aviation safety. For example, last month I joined colleagues in sending a letter requesting report language in the transportation appropriation bill directing DOT and the FAA to commission an independent review of air space design civil
▶ 3:11:20military coordination and operational safety in the National Capital Region. Miss Nelson, do you think such an independent review would help improve aviation safety in the National Capital Yes, I do.
▶ 3:11:39I am deeply disappointed to hear at this committee's hearing last month on the FAA reauthorization act that the FAA continues to allow military and other federal helicopters near DCA and their DAA their transporters turned off despite the acting FAA administrators announcement at a
▶ 3:12:09Senate hearing in March that the FAA is now recording ADSB trans ponderers be turned off for helicopters flights in DCA class beer airspace.
▶ 3:12:27FAA deput uh FAA deputy chief operating officer Franklin Mintosh told this committee that helicopter flights relating to law enforcement, national security or the transport of government officials are required to use ADSB transponders near DCA.
▶ 3:12:52Their refusal to implement this critical aviation safety chain puts the lives of passengers, pilots, and flight crews at risk. Last month, I sent a letter to Transportation Secretary Shan Duffy urging DOT to require all helicopters operating de near near DCA to use ADSB transponders and to pro prohibit the use of helicopters for
▶ 3:13:22transporting government officials in the National Capital Region except in caseational of a national emergency or the transport of the president and the vice president. Uh, Captain Raven, your testimony highlighted the need to upgrade aviation transport aviation infrastructure to utilize a DSB transponders.
▶ 3:13:51Unfortunately, even when ATSB transponders are present at a military or other fellow federal helicopter flying in DC for their airspace, there is good a good chance they will be turned off because of the numerous exemp exemptions the FAA continues to permit.
▶ 3:14:21Would requiring exemptions to turning transporters lower the risk of aviation a uh accidents. Uh thank you for the question. Uh Congressman, I appreciate that. And you're referring to the automatic dependent surveillance broadcasts uh that we have on our aircraft and and two different types. Just to say that there's one that broadcasts out and one that receives.
▶ 3:14:47Uh so as captains, as as uh pilots, we want every piece of safety information we can possibly get and and the more the more of those that are turned on, the better that we can see traffic, there's no doubt to that. So uh but as as far as those decisions, uh those the DOT and Department of Defense and FAA, uh it's a bit above our our pay grade as far as national security goes.
▶ 3:15:11uh so understand that there have to be uh some balances uh from time to time but the simple answer to your question is that the more that the ADSB is turned on the safer it is. Thank you and I yield back. Gentle lady yields. I now recognize Mr. Vandrew. Thank you Mr. Chairman's. I I wanted to talk about drones. I'm going to speak about drones in a minute. Um, I was concerned my good friend from Georgia on the other side of the aisle and he's a good guy and I consider him a friend and we have a lot of similar committees.
▶ 3:15:41So, we debate a lot in judiciary. Uh, we fancy and think that this is more of a nonpartisan committee, but there seem to be and respectfully, Miss Nelson, even on your part, the sense that I had when I was in here a little while ago that chaos has erupted because of the new president and the new administration. And there may be some problems.
▶ 3:16:02there always are uh and not everything that happened I agreed with but let's understand we are where we are for years of past activity let's call it what it is and let's just think about the chaos the chaos is when we didn't install fiber when we needed fiber in our airports the chaos was when I went to and visited air traffic controllers and towers and they were using floppy discs that you couldn't get through any of their normal means of acquisition,
▶ 3:16:33they had to go to discount stores to see if they could find them. Uh the the chaos is is when you have decaying copper. The chaos is when you moved air traffic control from New York, New York airport. We moved it from New York to Philadelphia. Philadelphia without the star system in place. Philadelphia with decrepit aging copper in place.
▶ 3:16:59Philadelphia where they were also because of the reconstruction of the runway had a lot of different issues and problems there as well. And on top of it what we've had it's just not resulted in the last 6 months. We have had a shortage of air traffic controllers and for that matter pilots for years. We have a problem. These are the real problems and the real issues. And quite frankly and again I'm going to be candid. That's the way I am.
▶ 3:17:27Uh, you know, we've been worried over the past years about what which bathrooms to use, what pronouns to use, whether we can call the cockpit the cockpit anymore. I mean, all this stuff. This is about infrastructure. It's about science. It's about staffing. It's about making sure that we do things the right way. There isn't just chaos.
▶ 3:17:50In the last six months, this has been going on really substantive underlying problems that need to be addressed. And I particularly wanted to say that because I heard that conversation between Miss Nelson and uh Congressman Johnson. You know, the United States is over a decade behind the rest of the world in drone technologies and infrastructure, and we need to catch up.
▶ 3:18:14On June 1st, Ukraine launched 117 long range, lowcost drones, and we saw the damage that they did. And the point of that is not that they shouldn't have done it, but how effective drones can be. And they they say they only cost probably about $1,000 each to make. Um, there's not a lot in place that would stop our enemies from utilizing these techniques against us. As well, we know that Iran has drones. Some folks made fun. There is something called a mother ship. It's not from outer space.
▶ 3:18:43It's these large ships like aircraft carriers that carry these drones. And we need a clear roadmap to protect our skies, to protect our crit critical infrastructure, to protect our America. And we've passed bipartisan laws to deal with this, but we've repeatedly missed crucial deadlines. Sec notably, section 2209 intended to safeguard fixed sites was enacted in 2016. It's nine years later, still no rule. Mr. province.
▶ 3:19:12Thank you for being here today. Thank you all for being here. When do you think we can expect a rule for section 2209 and what is driving this delay so long? Yeah, thank you very much for that question, Congressman, and we appreciate the ongoing dialogue with you and your team on this issue. Uh it is our understanding that section 2209 is in a draft form and is currently at the White House under under review. Uh that rule is tied along with the beyond line of sight rule.
▶ 3:19:39Um, so we are hopeful that we are going to see that uh that draft rule released uh in the near future. And we've also heard uh that that it's possible that through an executive order that the Trump administration may direct the FAA to move section 2209 directly to an interim final rule so that it takes effect immediately and then there's an opportunity to still perfect the rule, but it goes into effect right and I thank you for that. And and the way I say things, we're probably doing more now.
▶ 3:20:05Get more done this year than has happened since that was enacted years and years and years ago where nothing happened. That's chaos. That's chaos. If I could add one other point, sir. Sure. Um this committee is the lead committee of jurisdiction uh on expanding UAS detection and mitigation authorities. Uh it's been since 2018 that Congress has updated the UAS detection and mitigation authorities. Unbelievable. Um unbelievable. is that's chaos.
▶ 3:20:31It is far past time for uh for those authorities to be updated and to give our federal authorities as well as state, local, tribal, territorial the ability to train properly and integrate at the very least detection technologies and in very bad day situations uh non-kinetic mitigation technologies in the homeland. We're out of time, but I just want to say record amounts of money are going to be coming into our airports and into our FAA. I yield back. Gentleman yields and I'll recognize Miss Titus. Fabulous.
▶ 3:21:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, when you get to me, everything's pretty much been asked, but I appreciate that. I I I'm glad there was a lot of emphasis on workforce development. I worked with Mr. Molinaro in the bill to get that put in there, funding for it and support for it. So, I know how much it's needed and I'm glad that's moving forward across the whole whole industry.
▶ 3:21:23As we look at safety and air traffic controllers though and improving that system, I want us to be sure we don't forget about the contract towers because some of those uh I think are behind in who they're contracting with or how few they have and I want to put that on our list to consider too. I thank Mr. Van Drew for asking about the uh the the drones.
▶ 3:21:46Another part of that in terms of bringing us up to date was a a rule I got in the FAA that calls for us to look at beyond line of sight. That deadline too was missed. That was last September, but I'm hoping that we'll see it come this summer. Um can somebody Mr. Robbins can you address where we are with that and and talk about why line of sight is so important?
▶ 3:22:10We see it in Nevada and rescue operations be needed or or um fixing uh power lines out in the desert where trucks can't go. So could you address where we are with that? Yeah, absolutely ma'am. Thank you so much and thank you for your leadership of the of the UAS caucus here here in the House of Representatives. So uh along with the section 2029 2209 rule that I just discussed with Congressman Andrew, the beyond visual line of sight rule is now at the White House for review as part of the OIRA and inter agency process.
▶ 3:22:41So we're hopeful to see the draft rule published soon. As you noted, that draft rule is now 261 days uh overdue from the statutory deadline set in the FAA reauthorization and that puts the the final rule uh deadline at jeopardy as well.
▶ 3:22:55So in the meantime it is creating a situation where uh public safety officials, agriculture operators, drone delivery, medical others have to go through a very uh time inensive, labor intensive and cost uh very expensive process on a case-byase waiver approval. Now the FA has done a good job of of speeding up the the waiver approval process particularly for things they've seen before and can improve much quicker. So we give the FA credit for that. But this is not a scalable model.
▶ 3:23:24industry needs a rule to adhere to that they can then go out and and operate to and uh we're we're we stand ready to uh to work with the FAA to implement this as quickly as possible. Thank you. I hope to see that because there's so many good uses, not just the military ones Mr. Andrew talked about. Thank you for that. U my other question will go back to privatizing uh air traffic controllers. U Mr.
▶ 3:23:49And you mentioned it, but I wanted to ask Miss Nelson how how her folks feel about privatizing and why and why not. Absolutely not. We shouldn't have forprofit in a safety system. No, just that simple. It's that simple. We're fully opposed to it. And but so is the entire industry. There was a letter earlier this year signed by everyone in the industry. We're all on the same page. There's a road map in the 2024 FAA reauthorization bill um for us to move forward without privatization. And I think everyone's on the same page.
▶ 3:24:18we don't need any distractions from getting this done. And I would just add that um you know the the breakdown of the air traffic control system is not uh just an economic issue and just a a jobs issue and just a safety issue. What this also has is ancillary problems of more disruptive passengers because they're angry. They're stuck in the airports. They're stuck on the planes for longer. Uh flight attendants are facing that much more often and flight attendants are also facing fatigue because our days are getting longer as these delays are going on.
▶ 3:24:47So, um there's a lot of problems, but uh the path forward is not privatization. It is moving forward with the uh bill that you passed last year. Um and the plans uh that Secretary Duffy has put forward, too. Thank you. I yield back. Gentle lady, yield. Any further questions? No, I don't see any. Seeing none, this concludes our hearing uh for today. I'd like to thank each of one of you. Uh I think this is good stuff. We need to do this more often, right? Uh this committee stands adjourned.