▶ 0:00:33The subcommittee will come to order. Today, I welcome the Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Honorable Scott Turner. A Big 10 champion in a previous life. Mr. Secretary, I want to thank you for being here to discuss HUD's fiscal year 2026 budget I also want to thank you for your visit recently to my district in April.
▶ 0:01:03It was great to have you on the ground to see the impact of HUD programs in my district. Let me add, we caught a um Razorback baseball game while we were And in a shameless plug, I'll give my Razorbacks some credit for making it to Omaha where they will play Saturday evening against those Bengal Tigers of It is this committee's responsibility to complete our work on time.
▶ 0:01:30I believe we can achieve this goal, and I'm pleased that under Chairman Cole's leadership, we've already begun marking up 12 appropriation bills for FY 26. At the same time, it's our expectation that the departments under our jurisdiction spend the funds consistently with the way we appropriate We appreciate your partnership as you continue to fully implement the funds Congress made available to HUD for fiscal 25.
▶ 0:01:55HUD's request for new budget authority in fiscal 26 is $33.2 billion. That is a $35.5 billion decrease. Let me say that again. That's not a typo. $35.5 billion decrease from the FY25 HUD also uses mortgage guarantee fees from the Federal Housing Administration and Government National Mortgage Association to offset its spending.
▶ 0:02:25The Congressional Budget Office estimates $6.9 billion in offsetting receipts for FY26. That's a billion and a half dollars less than receipts in 25. Regardless of what the administration sent over in its budget request, the CBO score is what we have to live with, which means we're in an even deeper hole than the President's budget would suggest.
▶ 0:02:47To state the obvious, this is a significant reduction in the discretionary budget authority for the Mr. Secretary, you heard in April in my district many Arkansans are struggling to afford the rising cost of housing. Of course, it's not unique to Northwest Arkansas.
▶ 0:03:06The Census Bureau's American Community Survey found that 31% of American households were cost burdened due to rising housing costs in 23, including 27% of households with a mortgage and 50% of households with This is why HUD's impact is felt in every district. Through its rental assistance programs, HUD ensures that the poor, veterans, the elderly, and those with disabilities can live with dignity.
▶ 0:03:35It provides economic development dollars for local governments. It helps fight home-based hazards and provides a hand up for communities recovering from Because of your department's important mission, Secretary Turner, I'm deeply concerned about the deep cuts the administration's budget makes to HUD. These proposed cuts would radically affect HUD's mission and operations. I'm interested in hearing how a $27.6 billion reduction to HUD's rental assistance programs will help HUD serve our nation's most vulnerable.
▶ 0:04:06Your proposal is light on details on how the formula for your proposed state rental assistance program will ultimately work. I'm also curious how HUD will support community development in low- and moderate-income communities when some of its most important and popular programs, like community development block grants, have been zeroed out.
▶ 0:04:25These programmatic changes need to go through the authorizing committees, particularly the proposals to block grant assistance to the states, and the dramatic changes on how we combat homelessness in America. These ambitious proposals require an all-in effort. I welcome ongoing dialogue with our authorizing HUD's programs should work better for the American people.
▶ 0:04:49You and I have discussed how there is fat to cut at HUD, but if we cut too deep, and if we cut too fast, HUD's programs will not serve the communities you and I have pledged to help. I look forward to learning about your goals for HUD for this upcoming fiscal year and beyond. This subcommittee stands ready to work with you to better serve all Americans as we write this year's T-HUD bill. I'd now like to recognize the ranking member and my partner in this effort, the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr.
▶ 0:05:18Clyburn, for his opening statement. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome, Mr. Secretary. I think we can all agree that housing is a basic human need and serves as a foundation for education, health, and financial outcomes for nearly every family in America. And where you live matters.
▶ 0:05:38Without a safe and stable place to live, it is difficult for families to improve educational outcomes, maintain good health, or increase their earnings and build Across the country, more than 771,000 people are experiencing homelessness, and 75% of low-income renters spend more than half of their income on According to the Census Bureau, last year, the annual cost
▶ 0:06:08of renting grew faster, 3.8%, than home values, 1.8%. For the first time since 2011. This comes at a time when more than 56% of African Americans households and 53% of Hispanic households pay more than 30% of their income on rent compared to less than 47% of white Americans.
▶ 0:06:41because of existing budget constraints, only one in five families can receive federal rental assistance. Despite these disparate realities, your department's 2026 budget request proposes to cut HUD funding by more than This is not only unacceptable, but unrealistic given the dire need to lower the cost of living for Americans.
▶ 0:07:09Is the secretary your budget proposes to eliminate Section 8 public housing, housing for the elderly, housing for persons with disabilities, housing for persons with AIDS, HIV, and the continuum of care programs. Instead, you're proposing to establish a so-called state rental assistance to block grant rent payments via a formula you have yet to define.
▶ 0:07:36Your budget also proposes to eliminate nearly all of HUD's housing construction, supply, and preservation Time does not permit me to enumerate all of them. These so-called reforms would shift HUD program costs onto low-income residents, and I have yet to see from your budget uh evidence that funding that we could save in these time limits.
▶ 0:08:05And work requirements if if they become law. This doesn't help families who already are working multiple jobs to become it creates chaos, financial uncertainty, and pushes these families into more severe trade-offs. A choice of feeding your family, paying for medications, or paying rent.
▶ 0:08:36I would be remiss if I did not highlight the cuts to the Fair Housing enforcement and your attempts to deregulate long-standing civil rights law. Mr. Secretary, let's remember the long and painful that led to the creation of the Fair Housing law.
▶ 0:08:58The Federal Housing Administration, and insurance companies drew red lines on maps around the neighborhoods where they refused to provide home loans and insurance to otherwise qualified home buyers. I know. I was born in one of them, and I currently live in one of them.
▶ 0:09:24This discrimination extended to black black veterans returning from World War II, and Vietnam. These men and women had served their country, yet were excluded from the GI Bill's housing that were transformational for white families.
▶ 0:09:48Black veterans were denied VA-backed Of the first 3,000 VA home loans in Mississippi, only two went to blacks. Not 2%, out of 3,350.
▶ 0:10:11Not even fighting for our country abroad earned blacks a fair shot at the American dream here at home. Black families were denied the primary to building generational wealth, and that created a racial wealth gap that persists to this day. I know this as well. I served on two of the boards of the predecessor banks to what is now Bank of America.
▶ 0:10:39I the Community Reinvestment Act Committee, and I served on the Audit Committee. I led investigations into my own bank for its discrimination. The Fair Housing Law of 1968 represents a simple but crucial promise that every American would have an equal opportunity to secure a safe, decent housing.
▶ 0:11:10since the start of this administration, we have seen an attack on long-standing laws that were enacted to stop excluding from the greatnesses of this country. The current state of housing and the cost of living in America calls on us to question our national priorities. Unfortunately, Mr.
▶ 0:11:36Secretary, this budget proposal ignores far too many realities and it is not a reflection of what should be the values of our country. It is an exploitation of our most vulnerable. Mr.
▶ 0:11:55Chairman, I implore my colleagues on this panel to work together uh to find some real solutions to the housing crisis and drive down the cost of living, not increase the economic burdens on every American. And I yield back. I thank the ranking member.
▶ 0:12:17Uh before I introduce our witness this morning, the chair recognizes a very familiar face on the front row in the HUD staff, Grayden former staffer for this subcommittee. Mr. Secretary, you got a really good one Indeed, sir. But stop the poaching. It's a team. We're all one team.
▶ 0:12:43a he's a a good man and a valuable asset, and I know you'll enjoy his service to your organization. At this time, I'm going to recognize you for your opening statement. The entire prepared statement will be included in the record. Uh but we're going to give you 5 minutes to briefly summarize your comments, and then we'll open our question and answer period. And with that, Mr. Secretary, the floor is yours. Well, thank you, Mr.
▶ 0:13:10Chairman, and good morning to you, Chairman Womack, Vice Chair Bice, and ranking member Clyburn, and all the distinguished members of this subcommittee. Thank you for this opportunity to testify today in support of President Trump's 2026 budget for the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development. And again, thank you, Chairman Womack, for having me in Arkansas and showing me innovative housing solutions there in your district in April.
▶ 0:13:37Uh members, we have a small window of opportunity to help every American achieve the dream of homeownership. And the clock is indeed ticking. As of this past April, the national median home price is $414,000, up from more than $341,000 in April of 2021. And this is a dramatic increase of more than 21%.
▶ 0:14:00It became very hard for Americans to afford homes due to the policies of the Biden administration, which have been marked by negligence and a lack of stewardship of American taxpayer dollars. We cannot keep running the same plays that are causing Americans to lose. It's time to run new plays and get a new playbook. And this budget, the president's fiscal year 2026, is indeed that new playbook.
▶ 0:14:25It requests $43.5 billion for the Department of Housing and Urban Development to fund critical programs and provide greater fiscal responsibility and restraint. It carries out President Trump's day-one directive to increase housing supply and make it affordable again. This budget supports HUD's mission, and we will indeed maximize the funds Congress, you and your colleagues, provide to us, no matter what the amount be a 10 billion or 10 dollars.
▶ 0:14:55We have been taking inventory of every program and found HUD's rental assistance to be full of waste, fraud, and abuse. It's broken and deviated from its original purpose, which is to temporarily help Americans in need. HUD assistance is not supposed to be permanent. It should be a trampoline, not a hammock and not a resting place. It's supposed to be like a treadway, which is a a military bridge, which is used temporarily uh to get over obstacles, and then it is removed.
▶ 0:15:26We're also eliminating radical political agendas and wasteful spending at HUD. We identified, as an example, $260 million in savings for taxpayers. We canceled $4 in DEI contracts that had nothing to do with HUD and recovered an additional $1.9 billion from inactive contracts that should have been closed out during the Biden administration.
▶ 0:15:49We've seen that pouring money into programs just fuels its existing status, which is not good. Now, here we are reversing course to be efficient and effective, not bloated and bureaucratic. We want to be efficient and effective, not bloated and bureaucratic. We're also undoing harmful regulations, including the Obama-Biden era affirmatively furthering fair housing rule, which effectively turned HUD into a national zoning board.
▶ 0:16:19We're cutting red tape, and that is important, but we're also increasing the housing stock and opportunities for first-time home buyers. The Federal Housing Administration, FHA, which insures mortgages on more than 7 million homes, has insured mortgages for more than first-time home buyers since January when President Trump returned to the White House. In addition, we're ending taxpayer-funded subsidies for HUD programs for illegal aliens entering in our country.
▶ 0:16:50But, HUD is more than just housing. We streamlined the disaster recovery process to help funding to get to communities more quickly and efficiently. For our tribal communities, we announced $2.2 million under the expansion of the tribal HUD-VASH program to address veteran homelessness.
▶ 0:17:09And for our rural communities, we have convened roundtables in states around the country and discussed solutions for workforce housing, returning HUD to its intended purpose, serving Americans through localized solutions. The President's budget continues this approach by limiting the size and the spending of federal programs. It proposes a state-based formula grant to encourage states to have skin in the game for the funding and design of their own rental assistance.
▶ 0:17:36The block grant will empower states to be more thoughtful and precise in their stewardship. HUD has currently 300 uh 30,000 program awardees and recipients. No wonder the system is plagued by abuse. Empowering states through this reimagined system would prune the administrative burden and maintain necessary assistance for the elderly and the abused.
▶ 0:17:58The budget also continues our commitment to promote economic independence and adopt compassionate common sense and historically a bipartisan conversation around reforms like time limits and um time limits and uh work limits so to encourage able-bodied residents to move up and get out of assistant housing. It addresses our nation's homelessness crisis by returning solutions to the local authorities.
▶ 0:18:25The President's budget saves billions of taxpayer and helps restore fiscal responsibility. And Mr. Chairman, in order to properly serve the American people, we must care about our mission, care about the ones that we serve, and care about this country. And that's what HUD is and that's what we have returned to do, sir. So, the 2026 HUD budget request will allow us to operate at a standard of excellence that we have not in previous years and return to President's golden age.
▶ 0:18:54And I'm supportive this and look forward to Mr. Chairman talking to you and your distinguished colleagues. Thank you, sir, for your time. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Uh there is at least one other committee meeting that's underway this morning that will carry some of our members away, including the ranking member of the full committee and the chairman of the full committee who may or may not uh come in time here. If they do, I want to recognize them when they get here so that we can maximize their appearance.
▶ 0:19:21But the defense subcommittee is meeting this morning with the Secretary of Defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs in order to get the posture hearing for for that budget framework. And so now let's go to the Q&A portion of our meeting this morning. Mr. Secretary, I appreciate your commitment to reforming our federal rental assistance programs. The current system, as you've already articulated, is rife with inefficiency.
▶ 0:19:51The administration's request proposes placing the major HUD rental assistance programs, tenant-based, project-based, public housing into a single state rental assistance block grant program that you referenced in your opening. This is a substantial change to business as usual. Now as we consider this proposal, I want to make sure that we're good stewards of taxpayer dollars while still meeting our obligation to help those most in need.
▶ 0:20:21I'd also note that an overhaul of these programs would need the work of the authorizing committee, that of Financial I support reforms that promote work that reduce dependency and give state and local governments more control. But I want to ensure that we're not creating gaps that could lead to increased homelessness or hardship for vulnerable populations. So, Mr.
▶ 0:20:45Secretary, can you kind of walk us through the concept on how proposed block grant programs like this would maintain assistance to the approximate 10 million Americans currently served by these programs? Yes, sir. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for your question. As you stated and I stated in my opening remarks, you know, status quo is not good enough. And the way that we've been going about uh serving the American people from a HUD perspective uh is no longer good enough.
▶ 0:21:14And so, with this new paradigm it it is indeed a paradigm shift. It's a culture shift. The goal here is not to serve less Americans. The goal here is to serve Americans better. And so, to give states an opportunity to have skin in the game, to identify their unique needs, and then to be very deliberative about how they uh put the resources out what as it pertains to rural assistance, as it pertains to taking care of the most vulnerable in their state. And there is a focus in this budget, Mr.
▶ 0:21:44Chairman, uh to take care of the elderly and those that are disabled. And when you look at HUD, HUD has had record funding over the past uh few years. In the last 8 years, HUD's budget went from $42 billion to $77 billion. And yet, HUD lost focus of its most basic mission. We are only able currently to serve one out of four eligible families at HUD. And that's unacceptable when you have a $70 to $77 billion budget. So, this is a paradigm shift.
▶ 0:22:12You know, playing in the NFL and and playing in sports, you know, when you have a playbook and you're running plays that are not that are not working, the best teams that I've seen are those that go in, they make adjustments, say, "Well, we can no longer run this play cuz it's causing us to lose. So, let's run a new play. Let's reimagine what we're doing." I don't like to lose, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. I don't like to lose and I don't like the American people to lose. And so, we have to do something different in this country. It's not about just throwing money at situations.
▶ 0:22:41It's about what do we do with the money that we have to best serve effectively and efficiently the people of our country. And that's my mindset. That's my heart. It's not about the money for me. It's about the people. And we're returning HUD to that focus We understand what our call is. We understand who we've been called to serve, and we understand the critical mission. And so at HUD currently, that's what we're focused on.
▶ 0:23:09So when when to use a football vernacular, when we break huddle on this this block grant program, what um what conditions will be in place? What What what will you do to ensure that the we have adequate service levels for you mentioned the elderly, for the disabled, people that are very vulnerable in their lives. What what assurances do we have?
▶ 0:23:36What can we do to ensure that there's a service level that is fitting for these individuals? Thank you, sir. And that's a great question. So in this S-RAP, State Rental Assistance Program, there is money in the budget uh from our PDNR Program Office at HUD uh to make sure that we work with states to implement a an appropriate strategy, and also to work with you and your colleagues on this committee to make sure that this strategy is serving the most vulnerable in our country. HUD is a great facilitator of this, and we're very focused.
▶ 0:24:06And as you see in the budget, there's money set aside so that we don't just say there's a new program, but we can say this is how we're going to join in with states and join in with stakeholders to implement and execute this program. And so those conversations have begun and will continue, and we welcome your input, you and your colleagues' input to make sure that this new strategy works effectively for the people we serve. Thank you, sir. Mr. Clyburn. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:24:33Let me uh if I consider I'm not going to do I I played the game, not at the level you played it. But I'm a pretty good golfer. And I know that if I've got 150 yards to get to the it doesn't matter what club I use. What matters is what skill I've got. That's what matters. And I always hear people say, "What club do you use?" What does it mean to you?
▶ 0:25:03You ain't the same as I am. So, therefore, at soon to be 85 years old, it's going to cost me a little more uh with a six iron than it's going to cost this young man over here. get the right equipment. Now, so if you tell me uh that HUD has been uh do you cure ineffectiveness by refocusing, or do you cure by eliminating?
▶ 0:25:33So, if you say, "Well, I've been you eliminate the funds. How does that make HUD effective? Tell me about refocus. Yes, sir. Uh and I've heard that you're a great golfer. I'll I do look forward to playing with you. Your eight iron might be a different club than mine, but you're right, it is a skill.
▶ 0:25:54I'm reminded that during the previous administration, during COVID, with a $70 billion budget, sir, HUD hired 2,000 people during COVID. Most of which stayed home. And there was continuous waste, fraud, and abuse.
▶ 0:26:14And so, when you have that many people and still not carry out the job, and you have that much funding, and still not carry out the job for the American people, then we have to refocus. And part of that refocus is taking inventory of staff, taking inventory of the budget, taking inventory where the budget is going, and currently in the programs we have, we don't have a lot of purview, if you will, and transparency, if you will, where the money is going.
▶ 0:26:43Is it serving those it's supposed to be serving? And so, part of this refocus is to bring that back to house, and bring it to the state to say, now, let's have more transparency, let's have more accountability. And so when I look at refocus and I look at at the skill set, all of that to me is in the same bucket. When you you look at your people, are you doing the job you've been called to do? Are you doing at the level you've been called to do it? And is there transparency in the process that we have?
▶ 0:27:13And at HUD, that's what they're doing. And sir, I said it in my confirmation process that we're going to take inventory of every program office at HUD. We're going to maximize the budget that we do have and we're going to serve the people that we're supposed to be serving. So the amount of people, the amount of money, that's not the deal here because with the uh tremendous amount of money and a tremendous amount of people, we haven't prior to us getting here carried out the job we've been called to carry out.
▶ 0:27:39I agree with you, but I think that the deal with COVID is is a farce. This is a farce narrative here. Uh I chaired the this select subcommittee for the coronavirus virus. I know where the fraud was and it wasn't in housing. The billions and billions and billions of fraudulent money went to some pretty well-off people. At least one of whom is in this administration right now.
▶ 0:28:09So that's not the criteria that we ought to use here. Let's look at what the needs are and how we need to equip ourselves for these needs. Now you mentioned the Obama-Biden administration. If you want to cure what you see to be the problem with the Obama-Biden administration, why would you advocate the Andrew Johnson and Woodrow Wilson administrations?
▶ 0:28:31And I use those two administrations because uh dislike them immensely and they were So I want you to to think this is Woodrow Wilson was a Democrat and I think one of the worst presidents we ever had.
▶ 0:28:44So this is not politicking in This is whether or not we're going to have a program to meet the needs of the American people or whether we're going to just get rid of or throw out the baby with the And that's what you seem to be doing Half of the budget and then you tell me you want to refocus the agency with what? With what equipment? The five iron or you will leave it in the bag. Well, I think it's the the right equipment for the situation.
▶ 0:29:14And the right now we prior to us being here, we haven't been using the right equipment for the right situation. So, what is the right equipment? Well, the right equipment, sir, is called transparency. It's called inventory. It's called, you know, let's refocus and let's have a new paradigm. And you know, you talk about the Biden-Obama administration and I I make note to them just because that's what Yes, sir. Because that's where the rule came, not politics.
▶ 0:29:38And so, sir, I will assure you that my heart and my focus is on serving the American people and we are refocusing in order to do that appropriately. Thank you, sir. Okay. I'll get back, Mr. Chairman. You'll get a mulligan here in another little while when we do a a second forward to it. How's that? Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, ranking member. Mr.
▶ 0:30:01Secretary, um you know, we're facing historic shortages of affordable housing and one of the I I thought one of the best programs that HUD had was the SHOP uh nonprofits would actually assist people in home ownership and and I can tell you as as a former sheriff everywhere in my community and we did this on purpose
▶ 0:30:31uh in Jacksonville, We went into the most challenged neighborhoods working with these nonprofit groups who would then bring home ownership into these areas, these most challenged uh public safety areas. And everywhere that homeownership went up, violent crime went down.
▶ 0:30:54And so that's why I love this SHOP because it puts people in the Uh I I like S-RAP, but I really want people to own homes. And it because I know it changes the the the whole community. So can you tell me a little bit about, you know, how are we going to address this issue um if we're doing away with SHOP? Uh thank you, Sheriff. I really appreciate uh sorry, Councilman.
▶ 0:31:23It was uh And thank you for your service in law enforcement. You know, again, I I reiterate, this is a new way of looking at how we distribute funds. And by bringing in the states and bringing in localities and giving them the flexibility to identify programs such as you stated that have been successful, then they'll have the ability to continue to fund and work with those programs. I too am for workforce.
▶ 0:31:51I too am for skills training and home ownership, moving from rent to own homeownership, moving from being subsidized to now living life of self-sufficiency. And that's the heart so if I could if I could interrupt, so you have S-RAP, which is going to be basically a a block grant for rental assistance programs.
▶ 0:32:12And it it and you're saying there's going to be an an another block grant process where uh programs like SHOP can be funded out of if the state or the city decides that's how they want to use those funds? No, so not an additional block grant, but in included with. Included in the S-RAP? Yes, included.
▶ 0:32:33When I say this, meaning that the states will have the authority and the flexibility to identify programs that are doing well and be able to uh not just fund those, but support those uh opportunities in the states that you're talking about uh in particular like SHOP that you mentioned. Yeah, but all of those others are rental They are. Yes, sir. But you're saying that those dollars will also be used for home home ownership, affordable home ownership? No, sir.
▶ 0:33:02What I'm saying is that when you when you have programs that promote home ownership when you have programs that promote uh individuals being able to buy homes states will now be able to identify those better than the federal government. The federal government is not the one that identifies those unique needs like states, and so this the whole paradigm is to return that back to the states as it pertains to rental assistance uh that we talked about.
▶ 0:33:31And so, this is a refocusing of taking the federal government out of it and putting the states in charge and control of how they want to distribute the funds. Let let me uh let let me ask one more question in this round. Um We we in Jacksonville, we had a project-based rental assistance program uh Eureka Gardens.
▶ 0:33:53I'm sure I don't know if you're familiar with that, but um th- this is dealing with public housing units and basic safety and quality standards. Um And how those complaints and inspections are handled. What sort of oversight do you see HUD having for those um for those rental facilities?
▶ 0:34:22you know, this this one got so bad that um you know, we actually had an explosion and I mean, it was horrible. How do we improve the inspector and accountability to make sure those inspections are consistent and reliable across the board? Yes, sir. And HUD will still be involved obviously when it comes to inspections such as this.
▶ 0:34:44You know, I've traveled around the country and visited public housing authorities and seen some of the conditions that people are living in across our country and some of them are deplorable. And so obviously HUD will continue to be involved in such so that those public housing authorities are safe, that they are secure for the residents that are living there. even with the block grant, you're still going to be in the inspection business. Yes, sir. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I see my time's up. I yield back. Thank you, Sheriff. Mr. Quigley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 0:35:14Secretary, I don't know if you really believe all this stuff or you're just parroting what you're told to say because let me begin. I wrote reports on this that were detailed about how to streamline and consolidate government, make more effective. Not cuz I hate it, because it's so important and the resources are scarce. But there's absolutely no details. So when you just say refocus and reform, it falls on deaf ears. It doesn't mean anything.
▶ 0:35:43You can talk about compassion, but no reform measures are going to be able to allow us to cut HUD by 50% and not have our most vulnerable people, seniors, kids, people with HIV/AIDS on the street. And Mr. Secretary, you have to understand housing is everything. Housing for people with HOPWA HOPWA is health care. These people will die.
▶ 0:36:14There's no way you can believe that a 50% cut won't mean a dramatic increase in people being put on the street. So just you can say what you want, but it's when you when you cut the programs like pro, which is designed to remove regulations, something you you seem to be focused on, they're stopping localities from building more housing. It's just it defies credibility.
▶ 0:36:42So, if you just want to say we're going to cut these things cuz that's our plan, I'd respect you a lot more than telling us that you care about people as you put them on the street. So, let's just talk about HOPWA for a second. It zeros out HOPWA and says they are currently can receive emergency short-term and medium-term assistance through emergency grants program.
▶ 0:37:08But 64% of the people on HOPWA are not short-term folks. 2 years isn't enough for them. And the emergency solutions grant, which is going to solve all the problems, is now supposed to absorb seven existing including this, and a cut of 532 I don't know if you've known anybody who died from HIV AIDS.
▶ 0:37:34I have, so it's personal for people in my district and So, what's the detailed plan that says those folks aren't going to go on the street? Well, they won't get their and they'll die. Thank you, sir. Uh and I will say, sir, I'm not just I do actually care. And I do actually believe in what I'm saying. If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't say it.
▶ 0:38:02You know, uh as a Christian, as a pastor, I care about all people. Uh and when you talk about HOPWA, and you talk about the emergency solutions grant, um you know, this will help us to better serve people in the community. This will help us to more effectively and efficiently serve people in the community. HUD had record funding.
▶ 0:38:33were homeless in January of 2024 in the point-in-time report. On one single night, January 2024, people were homeless. And so, when I say refocus, I really mean to refocus because that's unacceptable.
▶ 0:38:51When you have record funding and yet you have almost 800,000 people on the streets, why would we continue to do the same thing that we've been doing and it's not working appropriately? And so, this is, besides just saying we're going to refocus, you're going to find a place for these folks to stay overnight. Okay, let's just talk as Christians. There's something about the story in the Bible and Christ having not a place to stay, right? So, that's on your mind.
▶ 0:39:20Uh faith without action is dead. That's right. What's your detail? Besides saying that you have your faith won't put a house over their Yes, sir. Faith without What I was going to say, faith without action is dead. And this is the action that we're going to take to do it better. doing is not working. And I believe What's plan B? I believe that you all, your committee, uh we should have been asking what and how way before today.
▶ 0:39:50I I wrote those reports. I'm with you if you have details and how, but all you're doing is cutting and there's not even a transition period. So, we're going to be more effective and more efficient. We're not just cutting. It's a new paradigm. It's a new way to do things. Working with the state and words than compassion and paradigm. Detailed plans where these folks are going to stay in the meantime. And we look forward to work with you and your staff on on those strategies. That's why I don't ask him. And I commit to that.
▶ 0:40:21It's not just words. We'll We'll be happy to work with you, sir, if you're willing to work with us. Thank you, Mr. Quigley. Before I recognize Mr. Gonzales, who's our next questioner, uh I'm going to be uh stepping aside from the gavel here for uh the remainder of this hearing so that I can get to the Defense Subcommittee and ask some appropriate questions there. Uh I will be yielding the gavel to uh Ms. Vice here after this line of questioning. Mr. Gonzales. Uh thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Ms.
▶ 0:40:50Secretary, for your service to our to our great country. Uh I'm a military veteran. I served 20 years in the military. Chairman Womack's a veteran. Secretary Zinke's a veteran. Uh my question is on homeless veterans, my first question. Uh one of the issues I care deeply about is homeless veterans. Back in 2024, HUD identified that on any given night, there are more than 32,000 homeless veterans. That's 32,000 too many. This issue hits close to home.
▶ 0:41:16In my district in rural parts like Alpine and Van Horn, where there's little to no affordable housing supply, and in urban areas like San Antonio and and El Paso, the housing availability for homeless veterans through HUD is often substandard or inadequate. Uh Secretary Turner, would you be willing to visit my district so we can work together on this issue and find solutions to address the challenges facing both rural and urban homeless veterans? Uh yes, sir, Congressman Gonzales. Thank you. It's great to meet you.
▶ 0:41:46Uh I do commit uh to visiting you in your district to come up with these viable solutions and also working with my colleague Secretary Collins as it pertains to veterans and veterans Uh thank you for that. My next uh my will be a comment on the Community Development Block Grants. The Community Development Block Grants have been a vital tool in my district, especially in the colonias. I mean, these are communities that don't have running water. It's It's absolutely atrocious the the conditions they're in.
▶ 0:42:15They're in predominantly rural unincorporated communities that often lack less than basic infrastructure like running water, waste system, electricity, and paved roads. But I'd also urge the HUD to take a serious look at preserving this program or making sure that that it just isn't completely removed. With the right safeguards in place, I believe we we got to find the waste and the abuse and I love the idea of how do you change it, right? If it's not working, how do you fix it?
▶ 0:42:44So to that, you know, continuing to find critical infrastructure improvements in this community through that program, I think is important. My my next question is on is on foster youth. One of the things I encourage I was encouraged to see in HUD's budget request was the inclusion of $25 million for foster youth to independence grants.
▶ 0:43:06As a member of the Congressional Caucus on foster youth, I recognize how critical these programs are for critical these programs are for helping youth transition out of the foster care Last year I passed a bill on the House finding protective foster act. So it clearly is important. Is HUD act My question is this, is HUD actively helping to track the number of foster youth who experience homelessness and what steps is HUD taking to ensure vulnerable vulnerable populations don't fall through these cracks?
▶ 0:43:36Yes, I thank you, Congressman, and we too are um glad and excited that we have money in the budget to make sure that our youth that are aging out of foster care have a solid ground to land on as we know that being in foster care is is very difficult for our youth. And when I was in the House of Representatives sitting on the committee dealing with foster care and our youth in foster care. So I too have a heart for this.
▶ 0:44:00And so happy to be working with the first lady and her team and you and your team on how we help from a HUD perspective these youth that are aging out of foster care, to make sure that they have safe and sustainable places to stay and get on a good trajectory for their lives. I appreciate you making a priority, and I look forward Once again, I like the idea of hey, how do we how do we reimagine things? And I think that this is a positive part of that reimagination. Very personal to me.
▶ 0:44:25My wife was was a foster child, and so I want to make sure that we work together to to see that program get off the ground and grow and and be productive. My last question is on law enforcement housing. I represent nearly half of the overall southern border, places like Eagle Pass, Del Rio, El Paso. My district has been ground zero for the border crisis, and as a result, we've seen a large surge of law enforcement personnel from CBP, National Guard deployed to this area.
▶ 0:44:52But in many cases, these are small rural communities, and there's simply not enough housing supply to meet the need. Out in West Texas, for example, I've been fighting to secure housing for first responders. Given the My question is this, given the president's commitment to to supporting first responders, what is HUD doing to ensure that first responders and those that are deployed to these areas have affordable and adequate housing? Yes, sir, Congressman, and thank you for that.
▶ 0:45:19You know, I too um have a heart and as top priority of our first responders and and all Americans to make sure that they have affordable sustainable places to stay. And obviously, you know, we have our FHA program and the president too is a priority of his.
▶ 0:45:34And so, we look forward to working with you and your uh colleagues and your staff on how we can ensure and help our first responders as they too look for housing to purchase and rent in your district and around the Thank you for that, because as we surge these people to these areas, there's just there's just no housing. And that's that has been one of the takebacks. You can't just put pieces on a board. The you got to drill down a little bit. So, thank you again for your testimony. I look forward to working with you, and Chairwoman, I yield back. Thank you. Um next up we have uh Ms. Watson Coleman.
▶ 0:46:04You have 5 minutes, Ms. Thank you. Uh welcome, Mr. Secretary. You said a lot today. You've not answered one question, but you consistent. You've not answered the how's of the questions that the Republicans have asked and you certainly haven't asked answered how you're going to make something happen on this side, Uh what I am concerned about is how you could even open your mouth and say that you care about this population
▶ 0:46:34or these populations when you're willing to come here and advocate for 51% in the budget. And so I want to go over a little bit of this stuff with you because I don't think you're refocusing. I think you're devastating. And this is a ludicrous proposal. I'm sure you know that 74% of Americans are concerned about housing and 771,000, you mentioned it, are currently homeless.
▶ 0:47:03I know you know that 7.6 million including 2.9 million children are facing the threat of eviction. I know that you know that this budget does not usher us into any alleged golden age, but perhaps a gilded age. I am unsure how you and this administration arrived at the decision to cut HUD by Specifically 45.6 billion during a period of rising homelessness and housing insecurity.
▶ 0:47:31And I want to remind you that 4 years ago you were here. You and the administration are going to try to sell the American people a story that these cuts are justified and you're giving while you want to give your money back to very wealthy uh donors. It's my job to show the American people that these are unjustifiable cuts and so here let us go with this. A 40% cut to rental and homeless assistance programs totaling 27.25 billion.
▶ 0:47:59A 500 A $53 billion cut to Section 8 rental assistance. An $8.8 billion cut to public housing. A $1.2 billion cut to Sections 202 and 811 programs for the elderly and disabled. A $505 million cut to HOPWA. A $22 billion cut to HUD's housing construction supply preservation program. A $1.25 billion cut to the HOME program. You care about homeownership? I don't think so.
▶ 0:48:28A $75 billion cut to the Choice Neighborhoods program. A $12 million cut to the SHOP program. A $6 million cut to rural capacity building grants. A $10 million cut to the PRICE program. A $296 million cut to the lead hazard reduction and healthy home programs grant. A $3.3 billion cut to community development block grants. A $100 million cut to pro housing. A $196 million cut to family self-sufficiency programs.
▶ 0:48:58A $58 million cut to housing counseling. A $101.4 million cut to fair housing. Now, I'm sure you know that these cuts will successfully increase housing, housing instability, and evictions. I'm sure you know that these face those facing evictions don't have a right to counsel. I am sure you also know that your budget is making massive cuts to legal aid for those facing evictions and homelessness.
▶ 0:49:28So, I'm sure you know that cutting rental assistance, eliminating fair housing protections, and defunding legal aid will not reduce homelessness and eviction in this country. I am sure you're aware that you are worsening the housing crisis with your budget If you really believe that you would not you would not slash your agency's budget by over 50%.
▶ 0:49:54And by the way, you talk about giving the authority back to the states. You want to give them authority, but you don't want to give them resources. You can't do anything with your rhetoric and your narrative. You got to show with your actions and with your resources. And last, but not least, I want you to tell me what DEI contracts you have uh terminated. What does that mean? Did you terminate contracts to veterans?
▶ 0:50:24Did you terminate contracts to um disability organization? Did you terminate contracts to black contractors? Did you terminate to um Latino or or um Asian or whatever? What the heck are you talking about eliminating DEI contracts in HUD? Who's your population? Who should you be looking after? It is shameful, and you ought to be ashamed of being here.
▶ 0:50:53You don't have to answer any question cuz you haven't answered one Uh Miss Vice Miss Vice Chairman, I would actually like to answer her. I yield back. I don't need your Okay, thank you, uh Congresswoman. You know, I'm and thank you for uh stating all the uh stats of our budget. We really appreciate that because it just reiterates my point that with uh record HUD has still not carried out its most basic mission. And I have answered questions.
▶ 0:51:22been here, sir. Just 4 years ago, you were here. Miss Miss Watson Coleman, if you'll let him Miss Watson Coleman, if you'll let him answer the question, the time has Listen, I reclaim my time back. I yield in my time. You want to let him waste your time, you let him. Thank you, uh Madam Vice Chair. And thank you, uh Miss Watson Coleman. Thank you for reiterating my point that status quo is not good enough. That also homelessness has gone up in spite of record funding.
▶ 0:51:54Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Um if we could move on, the right the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Strong, is recognized for 5 Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chairwoman Bass and uh Ranking Member Clyburn for holding this hearing today and to our hardworking subcommittee staff. Secretary Turner, thank you for joining us today.
▶ 0:52:15During my 26 years on the Madison County Commission, the second largest county in the state of Alabama, I became extremely familiar with the benefits and bureaucratic burdens of HUD dollars. Something I hear consistently from local communities in North Alabama is that HUD's regulatory burdens often delay projects. Some projects are delayed to the point where they are penalized for not spending funds they couldn't access due to HUD's review timelines.
▶ 0:52:43Secretary Turner, how are you working with local communities to ensure that HUD acts as a partner, not a barrier, in project delivery? And thank you, Congressman Strong. Appreciate your service, sir.
▶ 0:52:57You know, we have a tremendous staff at HUD that is very communicative and open has open lines of communication with constituencies around the country to make sure that we are being efficient and effective as it pertains to getting resources out of the door and working with yourself, your staff, and this committee is a goal that I commit to continue doing to making sure the resources are going out, sir, in an effective and efficient manner.
▶ 0:53:23As we have taken inventory and as you alluded to, to take down the burdensome and the bureaucracy and the red tape is a goal of ours to make sure that we're serving the American people properly. What is your plan to streamline permitting, review, and compliance processes to prevent these punishing penalties for federal Sir, so right now, you know, we have a tremendous CFO team and our CFO Irv Dennis is second to none in our country and he and his team
▶ 0:53:53are putting in financial controls to make sure that we are streamlining properly as it pertains to the question that you asked in all of the processes that we have at HUD working with our constituents around Next, I'd like to discuss the accountability and flexibility with HUD grant programs. Local communities including the growing mid-sized urban centers found in North Alabama often have the most accurate understanding of their unique housing and development needs.
▶ 0:54:21The administration's budget proposal to consolidate multiple housing programs into block grants such as the state rental assistance program appear to be a bold step forward in increasing efficiency and allowing states greater flexibility in addressing their unique housing needs.
▶ 0:54:38Secretary Turner, could you elaborate on how these consolidations will help local communities to better allocate resources and reduce administrative burdens ultimately leading to more effective outcomes for low and moderate-income Yes, sir.
▶ 0:54:52And so as you alluded to, you know, the the streamlining and the putting the resources back to the states will allow them to not only identify their unique needs but also to be very deliberate and precise in how they distribute those funds around their state and in all localities.
▶ 0:55:10And so I'm looking forward to this new strategy to put it back in the state's hands while HUD obviously is a great convener and facilitator but to give the states that flexibility I believe will help us to operate more efficiently and serve people better than we have in the past. Thank you. How are you implementing performance-based criteria that reward communities that responsibly leverage federal funding?
▶ 0:55:34Sir, and that's a good conversation that we're having and ongoing conversation that we're having right now and we would welcome your ideas to how we can better do this from a performance base. I know at HUD internally we have a great performance based strategy to where we make sure that people inside of HUD are performing the way that the American people have called us and expect us to perform this. I welcome your ideas as pertains to that Thank you. And Chairwoman I yield back. Gentlemen yields.
▶ 0:56:04The gentlewoman from California, Ms. Torres is recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, Secretary Turner. I represent California's 35th Congressional District, a region that was severely hit by flooding and the recent Los Angeles wildfires. They have had a devastating impact not just on my community, but the entire region.
▶ 0:56:31These fires displaced thousands of people, destroying homes and devastated critical infrastructure. Yet, the administration's budget for fiscal year 26 proposes zero funding for the Community Development Block Grant CDBG money, and HUD has not requested CDBG disaster recovery funds to help California specifically and other disaster-stricken states. Mr.
▶ 0:56:59Secretary, when will HUD you submit a request for disaster assistance to support recovery efforts in California? Thank you, Madam. As you know, California has received disaster recovery funds. I myself was in LA a couple of months ago to visit families there and constituents there on the ground as it pertains to the wildfires.
▶ 0:57:25sir, has not received a single penny in recovery funds for the recent um, this recent wildfires. California is still owed $6 billion for wildfires and flooding that occurred last year. Do you believe that state and local governments, already stretched thin, can fill the massive gap alone?
▶ 0:57:49You know what I do know, ma'am, is that there has been a a stewardship issue in California as it pertains to taxpayer dollars. And as I was there meeting with local authorities and leadership there, that's a point that I raised. Is that what are you doing with the resources that you do Because the people of California are not being served properly.
▶ 0:58:10And so, to throw more money, if I may, ma'am, to throw more money at a situation when the money that has been sent has not been stewarded well, is something I believe that we need to take a look at. my time because you are talking about, um, wasting federal dollars, but yet you're coming from an administration that seems to only care about the top 1%. Let me tell you, the federal minimum wage, in case you don't know, is $7.25.
▶ 0:58:38Can you tell me where in the US can someone making those wages rent a one-bedroom apartment? Let me tell you, nowhere. Right now, families who lost their homes in wildfires are struggling trying to find a place to live. And the federal government has a responsibility, you have a responsibility, to return our federal dollars back to California to help communities in desperate need.
▶ 0:59:04But, here's what makes it even more unconscionable, that you are sitting here while California sends $83 billion more in federal taxes than we receive back. We're literally funding your salary as well as housing programs in other states while our own veterans sleep on the street, sir. I fully support disaster aid request for California and for other states.
▶ 0:59:34The people rebuilding after a disaster deserve better than to be ignored and to have egos speaking words that mean nothing. What we need is actual actions. We need funding to ensure that we are able to provide the housing that we Thank you, ma'am. And I would say again and I reiterate, it's a stewardship issue. It's not a funding issue. You have no proof of stewardship issues.
▶ 1:00:02All you have been doing is talking around and around and stroking your ego, sir. Right here, we need dollars and cents and we need programs that actually are going to house our our our veterans and our homeless population.
▶ 1:00:17What you are doing with the cuts that you are demanding in this budget is you are every single opportunity that we have built up, not just in my community, for people that have been severely addicted to narcotics, people recovering from those addictions, from illnesses, veterans in the street that, by the way, under the Obama administration, we managed to have zero homeless people in in San Bernardino
▶ 1:00:48County living in the streets, okay? So, don't come to me and tell me that it is an issue of not having accountability. Ma'am, did you know our homeless situation was up 16% The accountability lies in this most corrupt administration that we have had. Madam Vice Chair, we just had to close My time has expired and I yield back to the chair. We just had to close two field offices in California due to the unrest going on in California and so I say it's time for a paradigm shift.
▶ 1:01:15The gentleman's the gentlelady has yielded her time The gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Siskamani, is recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, Chairwoman Fudge, and thank you, Secretary Fudge, for being here today. Really appreciate that. I want to first like to ask about an issue that is top priority for me as a member of both this committee, but also the Veteran Affairs Committee, and that's veterans homelessness.
▶ 1:01:38It's been brought up a couple of times, and I want to piggyback off what my colleague Tony Gonzales was talking about on that issue when he brought it up, but mine's a little more specific. As you know, the HUD-VASH program is a collaborative initiative between HUD and the VA that aims end homelessness among veterans.
▶ 1:01:56While the HUD-VASH program has made meaningful progress in reducing veteran homelessness, challenges challenges like voucher underutilization and case manager shortages persist still. So, what steps is HUD taking to ensure veterans not only receive vouchers, but can successfully use them to secure permanent housing with the wraparound service that they need? Uh thank you, Congressman. Nice to Nice to meet you, sir.
▶ 1:02:23Again, you know, working with my colleague Secretary Collins from the VA, we just met a couple weeks ago, and this is of top priority for us, our veterans and our country as it pertains to homelessness and housing. And also to be able to have the states working closely with us to prioritize veterans, I believe is a great strategy going forward.
▶ 1:02:45And so, we look forward to working with you and Representative Gonzales uh to have ideas and strategies to bring to the table where we can best serve our What are What are some examples you would say that are that are will be good that that maybe HUD hasn't been doing so far on the voucher system because it's being underutilized, and we want to make sure that they they have access to that. Is it awareness? Is it outreach? How can we get that information to our veterans? I I represent about 80,000 veterans in my district.
▶ 1:03:13In terms of congressional districts, it ranks about nine of the most populated areas for veterans, DM Air Force Base, Fort Huachuca, and Sierra Vista. So, I I have a a large veteran population. I want to make sure that they have The access is there, but but the ability to to get it and that we're being proactive on on reaching out to them with that.
▶ 1:03:34I believe awareness and outreach and also to take the the bureaucracy out of the program and process, to take down the red tape, to make sure that we're serving our veterans in a manner that we're supposed to be serving. Uh so, I agree awareness, outreach, and taking down the burdensome regulations and red tape uh to make sure we prioritize our a lot of red tape to tackle, that's for sure. I I've got one more question that I want to fit in here. Uh I'd like to thank you for mentioning in your testimony that HUD will begin to partner with faith-based organizations.
▶ 1:04:03Uh I'll also like to highlight a highly effective organization in my district, the the Gospel Rescue Mission. Uh the Gospel Rescue Mission's Center for Opportunity is one of the most effective homelessness providers in Arizona, offering not only shelter for homeless individuals, but also substance abuse services, faith-based consulting, employment training and placement, and much more.
▶ 1:04:26They even have a mobile cafe where their program training uh where the program participants are able to gain on-the-job training. Since 2019, they have helped 542 people make a full recovery from addiction, people obtain permanent stable housing, assisted 1,960 uh people with finding a job, and have provided over a million meals for those in need, all
▶ 1:04:56without a single dollar from the government. They can tell us exactly what their ratio of success is. They know where their dollars are going. They know exactly what's going on without a single dollar from the the Can you please elaborate more on how HUD will work to support a faith-based providers such as the Gospel Rescue Mission? And what role do we do you see faith-based providers playing in HUD's mission moving forward? Thank you, sir. And you're exactly right.
▶ 1:05:24You know, the Gospel Rescue Mission, Union Rescue Mission in LA, the Dream Center in LA, and other faith-based and non-profit organizations are the ones that are actually doing the work on the ground with data-driven results. And so, historically, it's been hard for faith-based organizations to work with the government, but they are some of our best partners. And so, we want to make sure that we ensure that are thriving around our country because they're the ones that are actually doing the work.
▶ 1:05:53And so, HUD has prioritized this in these public-private partnerships and working with faith-based institutions because they are the ones that are actually doing the work. And so, that's a priority of mine. It's a priority of our team. And we look forward to work with you, sir, on that. Thank you. They don't just say they're doing the work, their data proves it. Again, they can go to the numbers. I've asked many through these hearings about specific information on success of programs, data-driven results.
▶ 1:06:17And and the often is not able to give those specific numbers and and data points like these organizations are. The government federal government has spent 36.6 billion dollars in homelessness, and the number of homeless people has only skyrocketed. So, that issue is not being solved by just throwing money at the problem. We need to show accountability here in the way that these programs and these non-profits have done it in faith-based is a great way and example to do that. So, I really encourage you to look into that and keep on partnering with them. Thank you.
▶ 1:06:48Gentleman's time has expired. Um, the gentleman from New York, Mr. Espaillat, is recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. Espaillat, your mic, I think. I think it's on now. Secretary, yeah, I want to ask you some basic questions. do you consider that there is a homelessness crisis in America?
▶ 1:07:19Yes, sir. Do you think that there is a housing affordability emergency in America? I do. Mr. Secretary, is the rent too damn high in Washington, I believe it's high in a lot of places, So, there is a homelessness There is an affordable housing And the rent
▶ 1:07:50is too damn high in many places across And so, what does HUD do? What does this administration propose? A 51% on basic services for housing. Now, housing, building housing is not a cheap It's a deep-pocket anywhere in America. It's not cheap to build housing.
▶ 1:08:20It costs money. And so, you're cutting 51% of the budget while you recognize that there is a homelessness crisis, there's an affordable housing emergency, and the rent is too damn high in America. I represent the district that has probably the biggest concentration of uh, NYCHA apartments, that's the New York City Housing Authority apartments, in the city.
▶ 1:08:49Now, there's 570,000 people live in the city of New York under NYCHA. Now, you were born in Richardson, Texas. That town has 119,000 So, NYCHA is five times the size of the city that you were born in. And they have a $78 billion deficit deficit a a deep hole for capital needs.
▶ 1:09:18Boilers, roof work, pointing work, faulty elevators, mold in the apartments, lead paint in the apartment. These are the conditions in NYCHA, a $78 billion hole for capital needs, and you're cutting the budget 51%.
▶ 1:09:44Now, I know that you're familiar Sir, can I add Can I ask you a I'll I'll ask you a question in a Thank you. I know that you're familiar with some football terms. Um you said so in your testimony, so I'm going to just highlight some of the the $27.2 billion, that's a 40% cut to rental and homeless assistance program.
▶ 1:10:07To me, that sounds like roughing the $2.2 billion, that's a 71% cut to housing construction supply and That sounds to me like pass $3.4 billion, that's a 100% cut to economic development programs.
▶ 1:10:29To me, that sounds very much like a delay of million, that's a 100% cut to self-sufficiency and pathways to home ownership programs. That seems that it's a a false start. Mr. Secretary, you have engaged in personal foul on the American people.
▶ 1:10:55These cuts are severe, and they're going to exacerbate the homeless crisis. They're going to further throw into crisis the affordable housing emergency, and the rent is going to continue to be too damn high. You're cutting 51% of the budget. Housing is an expensive endeavor. It's no longer a cheap endeavor anywhere in America, anywhere in the world.
▶ 1:11:23It's a deep-pocket issue, and people are sleeping on the street and you're doing these cuts so that you can give money to people that sleep in that sleep in Fifth Avenue condos, that have lakeside and beachfront properties. That's what you're doing. You're not doing God's work. That That's not God's work.
▶ 1:11:5351% cut. That's devastating. That's a personal foul, Mr. Chairman. Madam Chair, and I yield back. I reclaim my time. The referee may have to call a timeout moving forward. Madam, can I answer? Um the the um the gentleman has yielded his time. Uh the gentleman uh from Ohio, Mr. Joyce, is recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. good morning. I'm sorry.
▶ 1:12:22I was at another hearing, but I'm trying to like the chairman and trying to work between two of them. Uh Secretary Turner, I recognize the administration's efforts to make tough but thoughtful budget decisions aimed at promoting efficiency and accountability across federal programs.
▶ 1:12:36I also appreciate HUD's critical uh role in long-term disaster recovery and their partnership with other agencies in helping communities transition from emergency response to sustainable As you are aware, uh both FEMA and HUD specifically work in tandem to assist communities in recovering and rebuilding after natural disasters. FEMA by providing temporary housing and HUD by facilitating the transition to permanent housing solutions.
▶ 1:13:01In light of the proposed changes to the community development block grant disaster recovery program in the FY 2026 budget, how does HUD plan to uphold its mission in this space, particularly as it relates to supporting disaster affected families and communities? Further, could you share the how HUD's plans to maintain its critical role in ensuring disaster survivors are successfully transitioned from costly temporary FEMA housing into more stable long-term housing solutions, even with the proposed reductions? Yes, sir. And thank you, Congressman.
▶ 1:13:31Uh great to meet you. You know, HUD is very focused on our critical mission. We're very focused on disaster recovery. We're focused on housing. We're focused on homelessness. And that has not been lost on us. We understand that this is a different way of the distribution of the funds. This is a different paradigm that we're speaking about in the budget that the president and myself are proposing today.
▶ 1:13:56We will not uh allow disaster recovery and those that need uh assistance in disaster recovery to be lost on us. Working with the states, working with our nonprofits, working with the faith-based organizations, and obviously, sir, you and your colleagues on the committee, it's not that it will be lost. It's just that it is a different way of distributing these funds. And so, we believe that this will help us to more effectively and efficiently serve those that are in need in our country. Uh thank you, sir.
▶ 1:14:26It was a uh a great answer, but it didn't demonstrate a Do you have a plan? Yes. And so, in the budget, there is money in our budget to uh make sure that HUD works with states to develop these strategies and develop a plan. The conversations have begun. And so, we do recognize that it is a new way of doing it.
▶ 1:14:47We are focused on making sure that the strategy is not just implemented but executed in every state and working with this committee and with states and stakeholders in those states, the money is in our budget to do so and so that is has begun and is forthcoming and I do I look forward to your input and how we can best do this new strategy. One thing I know is you're right, disasters come all over the country. Disasters come and you need to be ready for them.
▶ 1:15:15So attorney the administration has highlighted the underutilized lands as one of the strategy to deliver on the promise of more affordable housing including ongoing coordination between HUD and the Department of Interior under Secretary Burham's leadership. Can you provide an update on how this interagency effort is being implemented and what outcomes HUD anticipates in terms of expanding access to affordable Yes sir.
▶ 1:15:38So Secretary Burham and I we signed an MOU as you have stated to create a joint task force to identify underutilized federal lands around our country. Department of Interior has about 500 million acres that are available to be used to build affordable housing, workforce housing, all types of housing around our country and so HUD's priority in this is to identify where housing is needed.
▶ 1:16:05DOI their priority is to identify the lands that can be used and then work with local states and stakeholders to say what type of housing is needed in this particular area so I just Secretary Burham and I were in Nevada meeting with the governor and stakeholders there as it pertains to affordable housing in that state and working with the leadership there with BLM and others and so so we are well underway on the task force. There's much work to be done.
▶ 1:16:33But the identification of the land and identification of the housing needs is underway and so we look forward to working with states and localities on the strategy. Can you elaborate where in your 26 budget request the department intends to leverage support for that effort? And particularly as it relates to infrastructure planning or technical assistance needed to make these under utilized lands viable. Uh yes, sir.
▶ 1:16:55And so that's where our joint partnership with DOI will come in from HUD's budget, obviously, and from DOI, but also technical assistance. HUD still has technical assistance where we can help with these development of housing and how we implement this around the country as we move forward. Uh thank you, sir. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yield back. Uh the chair recognizes the ranking member of the full committee, Ms. DeLauro, for 5 minutes. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
▶ 1:17:25I I I just would like to follow up for 1 second with my uh my my my colleague. Uh this is the Appropriations Committee. We deal in amounts of money. A program, what is the amount? What's it going to do? How is it going to accomplish that? So far, we can't seem to get any information about budget detail, about what it is that you all are doing. It's a lot of great words, but what What are dollars and cents?
▶ 1:17:53Uh so I I I think you just have to keep in mind that we appropriate money based on needs and what the programs are, and then we make a decision as to whether or not it is we we ought to be doing that or not. So, please get us information on the the plan, the dollar amount, what you plan to do. Uh listen, I I I Your your budget request, quite honestly, unleashes a cat catastrophe of evictions, homelessness at an unbelievable scale.
▶ 1:18:22Three quarters of a million of Americans experience homeless on on any given night. Cost of housing is out of control. Uh middle-class families, working families are being suffocated. Folks in this country today work paycheck to paycheck. One emergency or layoff from financial ruin yet your budget eliminates critical lifelines that keep that help to keep a roof over most people's heads in this nation. Let me just say with regard to a question here.
▶ 1:18:51We have the Ansonia, Connecticut, which I represent. Housing authority, smaller public housing authority, they want to expand program services, especially for Residents have lived in this Naugatuck Valley their whole lives. They don't have income to sustain their homes, but they lack affordable housing options. Based on recent recent national data, it's becoming clear that homelessness among seniors is rising. Some experts expect the trend will continue.
▶ 1:19:17People over age 50 used to make up 10% of the homeless population, now it's close to half. A particularly vulnerable population with its own set of challenges. Over 2 million seniors rely on federal rental assistance to age in place. You are cutting HUD rental assistance by 43%. You propose to eliminate dedicated Section 202 housing for the elderly program, pushing more responsibility to states.
▶ 1:19:44Everyone on this committee knows the states don't have the wherewithal to be able to do this. Um there's no assessment of whether or not they have the capacity to manage. You propose completely upending homelessness programs. You are shifting to short and medium-term assistance with no funding for the type of permanent supportive housing that chronically homeless people with age-related infirmities need to achieve. We have a program in my district in Connecticut.
▶ 1:20:14It's called it's a senior housing program called The Towers, and you have frozen their grant um and and not giving them the opportunity to deal with critical renovations to a 55-year-old building.
▶ 1:20:29Um given housing affordability, homelessness crisis facing our seniors who already live on a fixed income, how are you justifying eliminating dedicated programs that support housing developments with on-site supportive services tailored to seniors' needs? Uh yes, ma'am, Madam DeLauro. So, uh great to meet you, ma'am.
▶ 1:20:52And as I said in my opening statement, with this new budget proposal uh under the president's leadership, this will help us to more uh effectively serve the most vulnerable. Effectively serve elderly and disabled. question. How? What is the way in which you are going to deal and justify eliminating dedicated programs that support on-site supportive services tailored to seniors' needs?
▶ 1:21:21How are you doing that? Working with the states, ma'am. And when I say working with the states, if I may, states understand their unique needs as it pertains to the elderly, as it that will address that? What is the amount of money that is going to be required to do this? What portion of it will be federal? What portion will be state? What is the program? Well, as you say it, ma'am, you all are appropriators. You control the purse strings.
▶ 1:21:50My job is to maximize the budget that you do give me. And with maximize this budget, we will work with the states to identify, if you will, You can't have a budget With all due respect, you cannot have a budget that doesn't have any numbers. That doesn't have any programmatic direction. That doesn't tell us what we're doing. But what is the specific program on seniors? What are you doing? You're eliminating elderly housing section 202, which has been in place for years.
▶ 1:22:18I worked for a city many years ago, and it was section 202 in which we worked with with with with uh providers to do this. You know, my time is run out, but no zero zero programmatic information, zero details on the budget. Madam Chair, my time is done. to ask unanimous consent to put my opening statement into the record because I couldn't be here for Without objection. Thank you. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. Um Yes, ma'am.
▶ 1:22:48Mr. Secretary, first let me start out by saying there is a famous quote that I think all of us here know well, and that is um the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting a different outcome. And based on uh your opening statement, you are looking to do something different. You are looking to try to find a different path to make sure that we're addressing homelessness in our Uh Mr. Secretary, when were you February the 5th.
▶ 1:23:19So, we're talking about 120 plus days ago. Is that correct? Um is it safe to say that you have a framework for a plan that you want to move forward, but maybe not all of the nuts and bolts that you need to be able to present that uh those details Indeed, the framework is there. We're working on the nuts and bolts.
▶ 1:23:41Yes, yes, I want to give you uh the opportunity to address some of the concerns that have been raised here today, but I also want to bring up one other point, and that is uh I was surprised to find out that there are approximately 3,000 public housing authorities across the do you feel like that those housing authorities are working efficiently for No, ma'am.
▶ 1:24:08And we do have over 3,000 public housing authorities around our country, many of which are not operating appropriately, some are. I've traveled extensively in just 120 days that I've been in this assignment around our country and visited public housing authorities. I was just at NYCHA to address the congressman who was asking me about NYCHA.
▶ 1:24:29NYCHA is $200 million in arrears and that's with a $2.3 billion appropriation from the appropriators $2.3 billion in fiscal year 24 and yet they're $200 million in the arrears. They have 250,000 people on the waiting list. Just while I was there last Wednesday, a 21-year-old was shot in the neck and killed at a public barbecue and no arrest has been made. So, tell me, how are the residents there safe? They're living in deplorable conditions.
▶ 1:25:00It's not safe. The New York NYPD is is not responding the way they should and so that's just one example of a public housing authority not being efficient, but yet we want to continue the status quo. I'm not interested in doing business as usual. The president is not interested and so the answer is this is a new culture. It's a new paradigm. And another housing authority that I visit, the residents were even afraid to tell me what was going on in fear of repercussions by the board of directors there.
▶ 1:25:29There was one lady there that's been living there since That means she's been living there her entire life. Her mother, her and now her children. Three generational multiple generations living in public housing authority. That's not what it's meant for. It's meant for temporary assistance, but then to be raised out of public assistance to a life of self-sustainability. And so, no, ma'am, public housing authorities as a whole are not operating efficiently.
▶ 1:25:54Um the budget proposes charging, I'm sorry, changing five programs into a singular block grant program. It's been mentioned earlier, called the State Rental Assistance Program. Um how can we trust that states with governors, including Gavin Newsom, who spent $18.5 on affordable housing in the past year, or 42.5% of HUD's FY26 budget request will use the block grant funding appropriately because they clearly have not been successful in addressing
▶ 1:26:24the homelessness issue. Yes, ma'am. That's a great question. And it's what I think we should talk about. Because, you know, this is a new shift and we have to work with the appropriate leaders in the appropriate states. And some states, as you know, ma'am, are better than others. Leadership in some states is greater than others. We see right now what's going on in LA, you know, with the agitators and the riots and and the attack on our law enforcement. And so, you know, California is not a an a good example of proper leadership, but there are many around our country that do have proper leadership.
▶ 1:26:53And so, I'm looking forward to working with them as they implement, you know, the funding and distribute it appropriately to take care of the needs in their particular state. Mr. Secretary, uh let me wrap up by saying, first of all, we appreciate you being here today. Homelessness is an issue. It's an issue across this country. And we want to make sure that your organization is addressing it in a thoughtful, responsible way.
▶ 1:27:14Certainly, you've heard today from members of this committee the concerns around um foster children aging out of the system, veterans homelessness, which is something that I'm passionate about as a member of the Milken VA uh subcommittee as well on appropriations. Um so, we all look forward to working with you to make sure that we are um using taxpayer dollars judiciously, wisely, but also trying to find solutions to the problems that um we face as it relates to homelessness. Um with that, my time uh has now expired.
▶ 1:27:44I have a point of order. I I I know we're I thought we were going to have gentleman uh seek recognition? I I really appreciate that. Uh I thought we were going to have a second round. Just ask unanimous consent to uh submit for the record four pages of stories from women in Chicago who are currently using these vouchers to keep themselves and their children safe. Without objection, it'll be entered into the record. Um and with that, I would like to give the ranking member, Mr. Clyburn, the ability to um offer a closing statement. Mr. Clyburn, you're recognized. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
▶ 1:28:14Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being here. Mr. Secretary, I grew up in the parsonage and um uh when I uh told my dad that I had decided against going to the seminary, uh he said to me, "Uh well, son, I suspect the world would much rather see a sermon than to hear Uh I have never forgotten that. And I tried to conduct myself here in such a way that people will see in my work a good productive sermon.
▶ 1:28:41Now, I've listened to your testimony and I've looked at uh some comments you've made in the past, uh especially as it relates to DEI. Uh you said that DEI is inexcusable Well, Mr. Secretary, I beg to differ. I grew up in South Carolina. I still live in South Carolina.
▶ 1:29:04My all are South Carolinians, were South And what you have proposed today, though you've been using the word refocus, refocus means to change What you have been testifying to is It means to return to something of former, usually something that's worse.
▶ 1:29:32cutting 51% out of a budget will not refocus the budget. It will return to what that budget and those plans were when you had that 51% less.
▶ 1:29:50So, I would say to you today uh that uh when you look at states' I'm not going to be concerned about this if you give the right to South Carolina you're looking at a guy that wrote the South Carolina Fair Housing Law and we implement that law. I ran it. The guy that wrote the South Carolina Bill of Rights for handicapped citizens, I was not in the leg- I've never been in the state legislature.
▶ 1:30:20So, I know how to manage stuff. That's all I've ever been. And the budget you are proposing, you cannot possibly meet the needs of the American people with that budget. We all talk about race and sex discrimination, but the big problem, if you look at all of the protected classes in housing, you know which one gets the most discrimination?
▶ 1:30:50The disabled. The disabled. And that is sinful for us to sit here and cut the budget for the disabled. I want to close with this. I represent North Charleston. According to the Princeton study, Princeton study, North Charleston led the nation in evictions. I represent Columbia, South Carolina, and I live in Columbia.
▶ 1:31:19Number six in evictions. There's something those two communities got in common that I want you to focus on. I want this committee to think about. Those two communities, Fort Jackson is in Columbia. The Charleston Air Force Base in North Charleston.
▶ 1:31:43The communities that house the most of our servicemen and women are leading the nation in evictions. During the coronavirus, I led the investigation into these Servicemen and women, people serving abroad while their children and spouses are back home getting evicted.
▶ 1:32:11And here we are cutting the money to address those needs. Mr. Secretary, I look forward uh to playing a round of playing a round of golf with you so that we can really uh discuss this when we have more time. So, I'll close. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Mr.
▶ 1:32:32Secretary, if I may, Madam Vice Chair, I once read a story of a man who played a country club and he came upon the hole and there was a pond between him and the green. And he turned to his caddy.
▶ 1:32:49He said, "Caddy, what do the members of this club use when they are faced with this shot?" And the caddy said, "Well, most of them use a six iron from this spot." So, he pulled out a six iron, addressed the ball, hit it And the water the the ball fell in the water.
▶ 1:33:16He turned to his caddy and said, "Caddy, I thought you said that most of the people playing from this point use a six iron?" He said, "Most of them do." He said, "I just hit the sweet six six iron about as sweet as I could hit it and the ball is in the water." Most of them do. So, we have to learn. We can't follow what most people do.
▶ 1:33:42What we have to do is size up the situation, think about your and then address the ball. Use the right equipment and we might get to the green. Don't do what most of them do. How are you, buddy? Thank you, uh Ranking Member Clyburn, and we've had a lot of uh sports analogies today.
▶ 1:34:10We talked baseball, University of Arkansas, we talked football, we talked golf. We did not talk about Thunder basketball, so I feel obligated as the member from Oklahoma representing uh the Oklahoma City Thunder to give a plug to them. So, Mr. Secretary, we appreciate your time today. Thank you for this robust conversation. We look forward, as I mentioned, to working with you in the future to make sure that um we are addressing uh the homeless um population across this country. And with that, we are adjourned. Thank you.