▶ 0:01:10All right. Test. One, two, three. Test. Test. All right. Thanks, man.
▶ 0:37:39Yeah. Well, your staff should have told us that. Committee will come to order. I ask unanimous consent that the chair be allowed to call recess at any time without objection. So, ordered. Uh, I welcome our witnesses and thank them for their service to our nation. Uh, today we'll hear from the Department of the Navy regarding the FY26 budget request.
▶ 0:38:07While I appreciate the budget documents received last week, we still lack the necessary details to fully evaluate how Congress uh can best support our sailors and marines and maritime nation. As our as a maritime nation, our naval capabilities are central to our ability to deter our adversaries, especially China. We can't do that without grow without growing the surface and submarine fleets.
▶ 0:38:32But when it comes to ship building, we remain woefully behind schedule and way over budget. We took the first step towards accelerating ship building and rebuilding our maritime industrial base through the House pass reconciliation bill. This once in a generation legislation will invest over 34 billion to expand the size and enhance the capability of our naval fleet.
▶ 0:38:57It includes funds to build critically needed new capabilities like the FAXX and the unmanned vehic vehicle vessels. These capabilities are essential to deterring China, but it also builds capacity and improves infrastructure across our public shipyards and maritime industrial base. It's not enough to fully f fund and rebuild our naval strength. We need to also continue investment in the outy years.
▶ 0:39:24We need to send a clear demand signal to the industrial base of exactly what we're buying. We also need to reform the way we buy ships. It starts, I think the problem starts with a broken requirements process. We've seen it needlessly increase delivery timelines and cost. Ship building isn't the only area impacted by our flawed acquisition process either. The entire defense acquisition system is too slow, rigid, and bureaucratic, and meet and uh to meet our needs.
▶ 0:39:53To maintain American deterrence, we need to equip our war fighters with what they need and when they need it. Ranking member Smith and I have introduced legislation to reform our flawed acquisition system. This bipartisan speed act will be foundational to the FY26 NDAA.
▶ 0:40:09It streamlines and modernizes defense acquisition and it ensures that our acquisition process is centered on one primary objective equipping war fighters in the quickest and most coste effective manner possible. I look forward to working with my colleagues and the administration on this effort. I know that Secretary Failen has spent a lot of time examining the problems with the Navy's acquisition process and ship building capacity.
▶ 0:40:34I was happy to hear the secretary is encouraging the use of created creative teameming agreements between our traditional ship builders and our non-traditional defense companies to expand the nation's maritime and submarine industrial base. I commend him for taking on these complicated issues with a new perspective and innovative solutions. I look forward to hearing his thoughts and recommendations on how to make further improvements beyond our acquisition issues.
▶ 0:41:03I continue to be concerned with the overall readiness of our naval fleet. We need to realize the 80% surge ready vision for the entire fleet, including our amphibious forces in the near future. At the heart of this amphibious ship challenge is the Navy's inability to adequately support amphibious force structure.
▶ 0:41:25Half of the amphibious fleet is in unsatisfactory condition and as a result we can no longer support a heel-toe deploy of our marine expeditionary forces and that's unacceptable. Our amphibious forces are the bedrock of our rapid response force and essential to for the projection of power in the Indoaccom area. We need to fix this problem as soon as possible. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how we can work together to ensure our sailors and marines have the resources they need.
▶ 0:41:54And with that, I yield to the ranking member for his opening statement. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think you you summed up uh the situation quite well. I agree with pretty much everything you said. Um budget, you know, starting with that. I mean, couple problems with budget. One, we don't have one. Um it's very late. It's later than it's ever been. Um which, you know, gives a degree of uncertainty the process here that is very difficult to to deal with. I spoke with Secretary Failen yesterday. We tried to talk through a couple ships here and there. U we don't know what's going to be asked for and how that's going to work.
▶ 0:42:24Uh that process needs to get started soon. Even when we do get the budget, um we still have major challenges. We have demands that far outstrip the resources that are available, which means we're going to we're going to have to get smart about how we spend our money. Uh a quote I've used often uh in this committee from Winston Churchill, gentlemen, we're out of money now. We're going to have to think. Um that is going to be really really true going forward. No, no matter when that budget comes out. Um and the chairman correctly identified you know two of the big problems.
▶ 0:42:54Every ship program that we have is way over budget and way behind. Um we're struggling through that. Uh we have major capacity issues in terms of workforce and shipyards that we have to try to deal with. that that entire picture very complicated, very difficult and short of the resources that we would like to have. So, we're going to be very interested in conversation today about how you intend to attack that very difficult problem.
▶ 0:43:21Readily acknowledging that, you know, the gentleman before us here today did not create that problem. Um, this dates back through multiple administrations and a number of years. We just need to work together uh to figure out how to fix it. And then the problem that the chairman identified that the readiness issue, you know, the ships that we do have um are not ready at the capa to the pace that they should be. Um some of that is a matter of retiring old ships that are no longer performing. Um I think there are potentially AI solutions.
▶ 0:43:51I've been very impressed with what the Air Force has been able to do with predictive maintenance through the use of AI um to make things more um to to basically figure out when it's going to break before it breaks and fix it. Um, so we've got a lot of work to do there. I'm interested in how we can work with foreign partners um, as long as we still have foreign partners um, who do have massive ship building capacity um, and could potentially work work with us to help deal with those issues. And then the other challenge is what's the right mix?
▶ 0:44:20Um, we've all seen from the war in Ukraine and from the rapid pace of innovation um, just the amazing things that autonomous systems have been able to accomplish. you know, how do we factor that into the fleet? While we are still, you know, building aircraft carriers and destroyers, submarines and all of that, what is the right mix of those capabilities? And then the final point, what is really become the battle is survivability?
▶ 0:44:48uh being able to have missile defense capabilities, counter drone capabilities, secure communications um to make sure that we can continue to communicate with our weapon systems as they're being deployed in the face of adversary efforts to disrupt that. All of that needs to come together in a coherent plan. We are clearly not there at the moment. Um but in the next couple of months as the budget comes in, as we begin to work through this, those are the challenges that we're all going to have to work together to try to meet. It's not going to be easy.
▶ 0:45:17I don't pretend that anyone has, you know, a simple answer or that it's any one specific person's fault. Uh, but these are major major challenges that we're going to need to resolve if we're going to be able to meet the defense needs and the national security needs of our country. Uh, with that, I yield back. Thank you. Rank member yields back. I'd like to now introduce our witnesses. The Honorable John Failen, Secretary of the Navy, Admiral James Kilby, acting chief of naval operations, and General Eric Smith, commonant of the Marine Corps. Welcome gentlemen.
▶ 0:45:47Thank you for your service to our country. Secretary Failen, we'll start with you. You're recognized for five minutes. Great. Thank you, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today alongside General Smith and Admiral Kilby. I'm grateful to President Trump for the trustees placed in me to lead this department and serve as the 79th Secretary of the Navy. I'm also grateful to this committee for your continued support of our Navy Marine Corps team.
▶ 0:46:18Distinguished members of this committee, my northstar as secretary is readiness. Before a dollar is spent on any capability, an exquisite platform or infrastructure, I will always ask the following question. What is the impact to our readiness? And does it increase or does it add to it? If the answer is no, we will not spend that dollar. As stated to this committee before, I'm focused on three priority areas.
▶ 0:46:46First, strengthening ship building in the maritime industrial base. Second, fostering adaptive, accountable, and innovative war fighter culture. Third, improving the health, welfare, and training of our people, our sailors, Marines, and their families. Since my confirmation two and a half months ago, I've been on a listening and learning tour. I've traveled across the country and visited some of our allies overseas.
▶ 0:47:12I visited our public, private, and overseas shipyards as well as our installations. And I've met with many of our sailors, marines, and shipyard workers. What I have learned is this. We are still the dominant naval power, but our adversaries are closing the gap at a concerning and accelerating rate. We need to make important cultural and strategic changes in order to maintain our competitive advantage.
▶ 0:47:38And we need to address a culture, one riddled with bureaucratic decision-making and goldplated requirements that is endemic to this department. Because there is no doubt we are operating in a world that is more hostile and unpredictable. As evidenced by recent conflicts, warfare as we know it is changing dramatically. China is no longer just a pacing threat. It is our primary competitor both economically and militarily.
▶ 0:48:07With their naval fleet nearing 400 ships, China's goal is not the defense of its homeland only. It is the forward projection of power and influence. In the Indoacific, our Navy Marine Corps team is deepening cooperation with our allies and partners to strengthen deterrence and keep open our sea lines of communication. At home, they are supporting homeland defense through task force zapper, providing surveillance, logistics, and manpower at the southern border.
▶ 0:48:36And in the Red Sea, they've defeated scores of missiles and drones from Iranianbacked Houthis, helped defend our regional allies, and guaranteed access to a major artery of global trade. Our global presence sends a clear message to the world. The United States Navy and Marine Corps are prepared and ready to fight and win anytime and anywhere. However, our naval superiority is under threat. For too long, we have allowed our ship building industry to erode.
▶ 0:49:06Hollowing out the very capacity we need to maintain credible naval deterrence. That must change. Rebuilding our maritime industrial base is not just a matter of economic policy. It is a national security imperative. President Trump's executive order on restoring America's maritime dominance highlights that urgency and has begun to put us on the right path. I have been to 10 shipyards, seven here in the United States and three overseas.
▶ 0:49:35And I've spoken directly with shipyard leaders and the hardworking tradesmen essential to our maritime operations. I now have a clear picture of our challenges and I'm developing a plan to fix what's broken. We need to act with urgency and this will take a whole of government approach to rebuild our capacity and expertise. We are developing a deliberate actionable plan to restore our industrial base. But we cannot do it alone.
▶ 0:50:03Congress, private industry, and the Department of Navy must work collaboratively if we are serious about ensuring our naval superiority. In closing, it is clear that our greatest asset is the extraordinary men and women who serve, our sailors and marines. We will continue to invest in them through smarter recruitment, better training, and targeted retention efforts to retain top tier talent.
▶ 0:50:28And we will prioritize quality of service initiatives to ensure that our sailors, marines, and their families have the resources they need. Marine General Charles Kruac aptly stated that the future of an organization is in the hands of the privates in the field, not the generals back home. Our job, my job, is to ensure they have every tool, every advantage, and every ounce of support they need to succeed. Thank you for your support. I look forward to your questions today. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
▶ 0:50:58That's our job, too. I appreciate you highlighting that. Admiral Kilby, you're recognized next. Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the United States Navy today. Your Navy provides the nation with sea power and sea control that is needed to preserve our way of life and ensure our security and prosperity. Your oversight and funding ensure we are ready when the nation calls.
▶ 0:51:27I'm pleased to testify alongside Secretary Felen who brings needed and unique skills and experiences to help us accelerate the work of the Navy and alongside my partner General Smith, the comedon of the Marine Corps. In the past year, our sailors have defeated hundreds of drones and missiles and executed dozens of strikes from the Red Sea and Eastern and the Eastern Mediterranean. They have strengthened alliances and deterred Chinese aggression in the Western Pacific.
▶ 0:51:54and they have supported operations on the southern border. They have maintained an unbroken strategic deterrent with our ballistic missile submarines. In short, the Navy integrated with the joint force remains postured and ready to fight and win. We rem remain committed to a strong global navy, one that is prepared to defend our homeland, deter our adversaries, and prevail in war.
▶ 0:52:21We are laser focused on China as our most consequential opponent and and while strengthening our deterrenes or defenses in the homeland. We prioritize our operations training and readiness accounts to ensure our naval forces remain ready, resilient, and able to execute national tasking.
▶ 0:52:40The Navy and Marine Corps preserves peace through strength through investments in our strategic deterrence, our defense industrial base, and our installations via initiatives like the shipyard infrastructure optimization program. Most importantly, we are continuing our strong commitment to our people, our sailors, our Navy families, and our civilians through payraises and investments in quality of service such as unaccompanied housing and child care. But we are facing some challenges.
▶ 0:53:10First, our platforms are not as ready as they need to be. We set an ambitious goal to make 80% of our submarines, ships, and aircraft combat surge ready by 1 January 2027. And we're not there. To do that, we are reducing maintenance delays and improving manning, training, modernization, and sustainment. Secondly, the Navy has 22,950 gaps at sea.
▶ 0:53:38Thanks to process improvements and targeted investments, we are on plan to reduce that number significantly by the end of 2026. We are committed to attracting and developing Americans who can innovate, solve hard problems, and dominate in combat. The Navy contracted over 40,000 sailors last year, the most since 2003, and we are currently on pace to exceed that recruiting goal for 2025.
▶ 0:54:06Our thirdly, our ordinance expenditures in the Red Sea have highlighted the strain on our munitions industrial base. The Navy is working with traditional primes and new entrance to close this gap, developing kinetic and non-kinetic weapons at speed and scale. In all of these efforts, consistent and predictable funding is foundational. We appreciate the continued support of this committee.
▶ 0:54:30In closing, I'm proud of our Navy's accomplishments in the past year, and I'm excited about the growing consensus that is powering our maritime rejuvenation. This whole of government and whole of nation approach is essential to our security and prosperity. We have work to do to ensure that we remain the most powerful Navy in the world for the next 250 years. Your leadership and support are critical in achieving this imperative.
▶ 0:55:00On behalf of the sailors and civilians and families around the world, thank you. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Admiral. General Smith, you're recognized. Good afternoon, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm honored to appear before you today alongside Secretary Felen and Admiral Kilby, my shipmate, to represent your Marine Corps. I'm going to keep my comments short so I can answer your questions.
▶ 0:55:28First, I'd like to start by sharing the Marine Corps's top three priorities. First is restoring a 3.0 amphibious Ready Group Marine Expeditionary Unit presence. This simply means one amphibious ready group constantly deployed off the east coast, one constantly deployed off the west coast to cover down in the totality of the Pacific, and one episodically deployed out of Okinawa, Japan, our FDNF, our floor deployed naval force. The amphibious ready group with the Marine Expeditionary Unit embarked is the most versatile tool in our nation's inventory.
▶ 0:55:57It is truly the Swiss Army knife of the joint force. We're working closely with our Navy partners to maximize this capability. My second priority is accelerating force design. Force design is our journey to adapt to the changing character of war. The nature of war remains constant, but the character changes. We're in the implementation phase now. We're fielding new capabilities and reshaping formations across the force from our marine expeditionary units and marine latoral regiments to our marine expeditionary forces.
▶ 0:56:26And finally, improving quality of life. Every Marine deserves a clean, safe place to lay their head down at night. barracks 2030 is how we're getting after this. This is our most consequential housing investment in history. It it it is a quality of life uh issue that goes beyond our barracks. We're also investing in the well-being of Marine families because you recruit the Marine, but you retain the family. And retaining our Marines means supporting those who stand beside them.
▶ 0:56:57I'll close with this. Your Marines remain the most ready when the nation is least ready. That's our mantra, a forward postured force trained for combat and built to deliver flexible, lethal options anytime, anywhere. Thank you again for your trust and support and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, J. I recognize myself first for questions. Uh, Secretary Felin, uh, since you took your position, you've been conducting reviews of ship building programs.
▶ 0:57:27Um, can you tell us what your takeaways are from those reviews and uh what are your plans to get our ship building programs back on track? Uh, thank you, chairman. Um, unfortunately, I don't have good news. All of our programs are a mess. Uh, to be honest, um, we are behind schedule and over budget. I think our best performing one is 6 months late and 57% over budget.
▶ 0:57:55Uh, so I am working very hard to try to get And you said that's the best one. That is the best one I believe. Um, so we are working very hard to get these fixed. Now, I think the Navy has begun to uh make some rapid changes at the public shipyards and we've been talking I've met with both with Electric Boat and Huntington Engles uh when I was at their yards in terms of some of the changes we are trying to make to shift the schedule left particularly on those
▶ 0:58:25uh platforms that are uh extremely important like the Colombia and Virginia class submarines. I think we've got some plans in place that will help shift that schedule left. Uh and then we are working on on the costs and trying to understand the whole procurement way the way we procures and the way we are going to attempt to budget going forward and or not budget contract going forward uh with them.
▶ 0:58:50And so I would tell you as I think I said in my opening statement this is really a whole of government approach. I think there's two ways to look at it. There's a short two ways I look at it. There's a short run and a long run. In the short run, I have got to get holes in the water. And so that means all options are open. So we have to look at foreign and domestic.
▶ 0:59:12In the long run, I've got to get the maritime industrial base in this country back on its feet because it's strategic and that will take a a longer amount of time. But we will have to do it. We have enough business today. we could not fulfill all the business we have today in the United States. Um, so we have to probably expand shipyards. We probably need to open new shipyards as well. And expand on that.
▶ 0:59:40How how how can we help you do that and how would that functionally work? So I I I think Cars, we're still in the early stages of putting these these thoughts together. I think it will probably it's obviously going to require capital. It's going to require uh not having five-year environmental studies uh and and huge bureaucracy to get things done.
▶ 1:00:03Um we will need to move with speed and uh I think you know I look forward once we have that plan to working with this committee and coming to you with some real specifics around it. But, you know, I I I feel like um I'm in a perpetual game of whack-a-ole uh whenever I kind of un unveil something or look at some new program. Right now, I've been very focused on the subs because it is critical and we need to get that done. And we just recently did the Virginia contract.
▶ 1:00:32We've got another big contract coming up which we need to deal with. Um I'm just kind of step by step going through now I got to deal with carriers. then I'll deal with DDGS and we will just go step by step through each one of these and try to get that done and figure out diagnose the problems and get them done. But I also would say to you um you look we've got a a work shortage. We've got to get more workers.
▶ 1:00:56I think the uh you know the the wage package we put together in Grten and Quanset was a good a good step forward on the Virginia contracts. Uh and I thank this committee for that. Um, and um, I think that we've got to we need to get much more efficient, much better. I when I was in Korea, I got in a DDG that's 10% bigger than ours. Uh, a very good ship. Uh, third of the cost and built in three years.
▶ 1:01:27Well, uh, you've painted a very bleak picture and it and and the truth is we need accurate. If it's ugly, we need to know it's ugly. You talked about having a uh coming up with a plan to resolve this or take these challenges on. What timeline do you think you'll have to you'll need to be able to to put that plan together? Uh so I I am on day 72 of the job.
▶ 1:01:50Um I am pushing very very hard to try to have something done in the next 30 to 60 days with a kind of complete kind of idea of where I'm at. Uh it just really depends what's what else happens and what pops. But I'm working very hard and again it's just methodically I had to go see the shipyards. I had to go see the programs. Now look well we we we just need you to get us information as soon as possible. You know we're going to try to do the NDA in mid July.
▶ 1:02:20If you want us to help you with that product, you need to try to get us something by then. I yield to the ranking member. Thanks. Just following up on that. As you know, the chairman and I are working on an acquisition reform process. full committee is um and you know when you make those statements about how quickly other places are able to build um ships a lot of it I think comes down to regulations and requirements um the requirements process is an endless rotating nightmare that is completely disconnected in many instances from from a usable product
▶ 1:02:50um and I think we agree that I've often made the joke that if I could I would snap my fingers and eliminate half of all regulations and I don't care which half that's probably not a smart way to go about it. Um, but we seem to make no progress on this. So, just for all three of you, I'm curious, how would you blow up that regulations process? Shrink it down so it stops sucking us into this and and it's not the only problem I will grant you. Uh, but it certainly seems to be really a big part of the problem.
▶ 1:03:20Admiral, you want to take the first stab at that? Hey, sir, thanks for that question. One of the things we taking a page out of the Ukraine uh lessons learned and what's happening with the Houthis is we must go faster. So I think abandoning the idea that we have to have an approved program of record uh before we proceed is is something we have to consider for capabilities like unmanned to get them out faster.
▶ 1:03:46So, uh, we were working on a legislative, um, that came out for a rapid capabilities office in Nav Air and I asked for that to include the entire Navy. We are going to talk to the secretary about that, but to me, that thing within the Navy could allow us to deliver capability faster. I acknowledge the tenants of the speed act and the desire to remove uh um holdups there, and I think that that's good.
▶ 1:04:13Uh my sense is we're going to need some rigidity to make our traditional platforms, some consistency that allows you to fund and develop things and have confidence in the program and at the same time some flexibility to develop unmanned things that we're not wedded to.
▶ 1:04:30So we are doing that with a packed fleet and and supporting them trying to get them a capability by 1 January 2027 for a a missionary we call non-traditional sea denial which is largely unmanned. I think that is a good foreshadow of where we need to go. Thanks General Smith. I don't know or secretary Fallon if you want to go first. Thanks sir. Sir I'd echo my shipmate uh Admiral Kilby. You know, for an example, drone technology.
▶ 1:04:58We can additive manufacture and 3D print drones right now. We're doing it at Quantico. What we need is the authority to operate them. Um the authority to train with them. And so being able to do additive manufacturing and 3D printing without relying on a specific vendor to produce something for us is really key because I don't want to I don't want to have to pay a vendor for something that I can do myself. Yeah, we would love to empower you on that on that step as part of our reform effort. Mr. Secretary.
▶ 1:05:27So, a a couple things. One, you know, we have the Navy in particular, uh, as you alluded to in your in your opening statement, we have been deferring maintenance on ships. We have underinvested in our infrastructure. Um, we are and all those bills are coming due. We have we are kind of at the end of what we can defer. And that's one of the problems that's going on. So I I don't think the Navy's totally to blame.
▶ 1:05:55Uh to be honest, the problem also is requirements happen both from the Navy and from this body to some extent and and people we are part of the problem. I I readily acknowledge that um and something we need to fix. Yeah. And we need to and we need to really try to get that resolved. I think the other thing just in in the Navy's defense, a lot of these things are brand new. These submarines we're building right now are they look a lot like old submarines. they are very different. Same thing with the carriers.
▶ 1:06:25So, some of the problems we've had is first in class. And the problem is, I think, with the Navy, we tend to want to have everything perfect before we start it. And we've got to stop that. We've got to get it in the water. Let's iterate and then make the second and third one better. The other thing is we tend to create multiple classes of things. So, take the V22. I think there's almost 438 of them. We have 70 different varieties in 2022. Okay.
▶ 1:06:54Now, I'm still trying to I'm still waiting for the comprehensive report on that to understand it. But to your point, we've got to get the requirements down. We've got to make this simpler. There's one thing when you're building and and and it's a business I know very well. It's called schedule. If you don't stay to the schedule, you are going to be overbudget and you are going to get killed.
▶ 1:07:14Well, the phrase the perfect the enemy of the good is just just so emblematic of everything we do on so many different projects and pieces that lead us to that incredibly high cost and then forget perfect we don't have anything. It takes forever and and it just spends all of the money. So, um I applaud those efforts. Look forward to working with you. I yield back. Thanks. Chair and I recognize gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Wilson.
▶ 1:07:41Thank you very much, Chairman Mike Rogers for your leadership and indeed I'm really grateful to be here with you. I'm uh each of you. I'm a Navy dad uh as I mentioned to uh you my uh son uh just retired uh lieutenant commander uh at as Buford Naval Hospital and just appreciate he glued the Marines back together at Paris Island and at Marine Corps Air Station. Uh and then I'm grateful too that my late father-in-law received the Navy Cross as a Marine.
▶ 1:08:09uh he was part of a contingent of Clemson cadetses that actually seized Shuri Castle at Okinawa uh the uh the castle of the Yuku Kingdom and uh so we identify and then I was on ground level. I was a in high school a cadet at the Charleston Navy base. So I particularly appreciate what you do. We appreciate all of you for a strong America through peace through strength. We are in a cold war. We did not choose between dictators with rule of gun invading democracies with rule of law.
▶ 1:08:39War criminal Putin, the regime in Thran and the Chinese Communist Party continue to modernize their capabilities and rapidly expand what we are forced to re to react to and we have changes in the battlefield. President Donald Trump is correct. The Iranian regime must not have a nuclear bomb to achieve their goal of death to Israel, death to America.
▶ 1:09:02The US must remain ahead of our adversaries to ensure we do not fall behind again with the goal of peace through strength. With that in mind, u Mr. Secretary, the uh and also I want to congratulate you. I have a a grandson at SMU uh junior. Okay. So I I I know your academic background is extraordinary. It's almost as good as a naval academy. Uh uh we are uh witnessing the unprecedented buildup and modernization of China's military.
▶ 1:09:32They're building ships at an alarming rate and their defensive capabilities continue to expand. What more can be done uh with sufficient navy resources to deter or fend off an attack on Taiwan by the Chinese Communist Party? Yeah, I I'll start sir and yield to the secretary. You know, we've been studying this in the Navy for a long time.
▶ 1:09:56We have a global series of war games we conduct at Newport at the Navy War College and we have uh very uh experienced commanders like Admiral Paparo and Admiral Kaylor who their responsibility is to work this. There are five areas we are focused on in the Navy.
▶ 1:10:14long range fires contr which is being able to counter the Chinese ability to track us terminal defense of our ships because we've got to be able to defend them and contested logistics. The last area is this area called non-traditional sea denial and that came out of study and thought from Admiral Paparo when he was the pack fleet commander that we needed to make uh Taiwan a very difficult target to take.
▶ 1:10:42So, uh, we're investing in those. We're experimenting in those. I was, uh, several weeks ago I was out in San Diego with Admiral Kaylor and Admiral Paparo as they were working some of these technologies together to deliver them at pace. So, I think the Navy views ourselves as a central point for Admiral Paparo, who is the combatant commander responsible of this, to prevent that from happening, and we are focused on it.
▶ 1:11:09Well, I want to thank you because indeed it's peace through strength and uh to protect the people of Taiwan and then hopefully the Chinese Communist Party see the unintended consequence of my view of failures by war criminal Putin which is uh strengthened NATO who would imagine uh with Finland and Sweden now being members. But aside from that, Germany going to 5%. Um so truly the Communist Party needs to see uh that an invasion of Taiwan would be catastrophic.
▶ 1:11:37And then General Smith, in your testimony, you mentioned the lessons learned from war criminals Putin's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine and for example with uh UAVs. Uh how is the Marine Corps preparing? Congressman, thanks for that. What we know is if you can be sensed, you can be targeted and if you can be targeted, you can be killed. So first you have to have a lower signature going in.
▶ 1:12:05You have to mimic the or be able to cancel out your own signature to hide in plain sight. And that's something that we're working on very very hard. Um you also have to be able to protect yourself against drone technology. Drone technology. So our counter drone technology basically our emerick our medium-range intercept capability. Other counter drone technologies that we're working on that is key to being able to protect our Marines on the ground wherever they may be. Be it in the Pacific or be it in the Yukon AO. Thank you all for your great service.
▶ 1:12:34And one point too at Paris Island, I was there and I to see young people talking to their family members saying, "I'm the slug in human debris." You said here, "You change uh uh personnel very well." Thank you. Uh chair, I recognize gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney. Thank you, u Mr. Chairman, and thank you again to all three witnesses for your testimony this morning. Secretary Failen, I want to publicly thank you for releasing the wage improvement funds for submarine workers that Congress authorized and funded last December.
▶ 1:13:03Those funds uh which were released on uh April 30th made a critical difference to settle the marine draftsman's contract impass as well as boost the wage rates of metal trades workers in southern New England by 30% over a 5-year span.
▶ 1:13:16This wage increase for our ship builders is going to create the separation in terms of the labor market to make sure that these jobs bring in new hires as well as retain uh workers which again uh Admiral Rucker did some amazing work in terms of analyzing that issue last year. Uh and again the timing of your decision uh as I said made a made a a critical uh difference.
▶ 1:13:41I also want to point to your testimony uh pages 13 and 14 where you gave very vigorous support for AUS um and uh echoed actually Admiral Paparo when he testified here a few weeks ago uh about again the advantages to the US uh in terms of uh AUS um your your uh testimony walked through the joint training that's happening right now between our two navies as well as joint training um in terms of shipyard workers from Australia Guam
▶ 1:14:11and uh Hawaii, which again is uh going to I think enhance, not burden uh US readiness. I was wondering if you could talk about that for a second, Congressman. Thank you. Thank you for the question. Look, submarines are our critical asymmetric advantage. Uh and obviously Australia and the United Kingdom are our closest allies and in particularly in the undersea do domain.
▶ 1:14:36My my immediate concern as Secretary of the Navy is to improve our submarine production rate uh and and and our maintenance throughput uh so that we can make sure that we are meeting all of our commitments, our internal commitments uh and then any future Augustus commitments, but I need to do that without making sure we're sacrificing any combat capability for the combatant commanders that we need in the Western Pacific.
▶ 1:15:02Having said that, I mean, I think that um as you and I discussed when you were in Graten, um again, there were two delivered last year, uh New Jersey and Iowa, there going to be two delivered uh this year, Massachusetts and Idaho, and there'll be two delivered the following year. Um Arkansas uh and Utah.
▶ 1:15:18again what but as your testimony stated you know really the advantages of of AUS which Admiral Paparo um emphatically uh stated also is that it actually enhances our position in the Indoacific creating an Indian Ocean um rotation um out of Perth um again as well as getting uh deeper collaboration which is uh critical uh to the Indoacific.
▶ 1:15:44So again, I would encourage you again to sort of um continue uh obviously working with Congress. We authorized um the AUS um um you know powers in 2023.
▶ 1:15:57There's strong interest on bipartisan interest uh on this committee and and again I think the investment by Australia $500 million into our industrial base which we had to pass a law to to allow that to actually happen again shows that this is clearly a bilateral commitment uh between the uh the two countries. Um Admiral Kilby you um again walked through the combat uh surge readiness for the different parts of the Navy.
▶ 1:16:25Um and as far as submarines um which again is part of the inventory question that the secretary was mentioning as far as AUS is concerned the number is 72%. It's not where we want it to be. We want it to be at 80%. But I remember well when Admiral Houston took over at Naval Reactors in January 2024 was at 60%. So clearly the public yards like Portsouth and others are really stepping up uh their game and and we're seeing that number move in the right direction. Isn't that correct?
▶ 1:16:55It it is, sir, but I'm not satisfied. I think there's work to be done here. I don't mean to be, you know, negative about it. But I am focused on 80% and you have to have an audacious goal to change people's behavior. And so my belief is we've got some efficiencies we can get at. I think there's some focus we can apply to both submarines and aircraft carrier production and workers. And we can really empower that worker and take barriers away.
▶ 1:17:23the same barriers that we talked about, you know, but I just remind you this committee, you know, was ahead of the curve in terms of getting SCAP money so so that these public yards can finally belatedly, you know, get the capacity to get the those boats moving out and it's happening in real time. Uh, if anyone visits Portsouth can see vividly and again I I I I we all want to be at 80%. The the point is is that the trend is certainly heading in the right direction compared to where it was really just a year and a half ago. Sure.
▶ 1:17:52I'm in a violent agreement with you and I'm still on the case. We have 17 yard 17 boats that are in some kind of availability and my target's 10. Thank you. I yield Chair, I recognize gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Whitman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like to thank our witnesses today, Admiral Kilby, Secretary Felen, General Smith. Thanks again. Thanks for the incredible job you're doing. Uh gentlemen, I want to begin with submarines. We had a hearing last week with uh leadership in the Navy. I was assured that we would not repeat the budget request from FY25.
▶ 1:18:22We only requested one Virginia class submarine. I look forward to a request coming over this year that will at the minimum request two. We know where we are. Uh Mr. Courtney pointed out where we are as far as a subbo operational availability of submarines. I still want to get a perspective on where we are with the number of submarines. Admiral Kilby, is the requirement still 66 attack submarines? It is, sir. Uh are we anywhere close to that at this point? We are not.
▶ 1:18:47Do we still have the plan to recondition some 688s to repower them to help us get closer to that number? Yes, sir, we do. Secretary Phelin, uh I know that uh you've talked a lot about the importance of submarines. It is the one significant strategic advantage that we have over the Chinese and we know to the AUS agreement it's incredibly important.
▶ 1:19:08Uh will you commit to work with Congress to make sure that we are getting as quickly as we can to producing two Virginia class a year, one Colombia class per year with the goal of producing 2.3 Virginia class submarines per year in order to meet not only our requirement but also the requirement we've committed to under AUS. Congressman, thanks uh for the question. I know it's important to you obviously our submarine. Well, it's important to the nation, too. So, not not just to me. I understand.
▶ 1:19:37Uh, look, our submarines, as I said, are critical. That's why it's the first yard I went to and and where I spent uh the most time. Uh, we are committed to getting to our production rates up to getting us what we need. So, yes, you have that commitment. Let me jump over Secretary to uh to carrier production. Another important part of that, we know the the the span of platforms is going to be key.
▶ 1:20:00Uh I want to make sure that we are all here on the same page as far as the importance of a long lead time material purchase especially for things like CVN 82. I've been assured that we are on track to be able to do that. This year I think needs to be that first step in that direction. And we know when we bought two carriers at a time when we bought 80 and 81 we know how much money we saved in doing that. We know what it does to provide certainty to the industrial base.
▶ 1:20:28Uh we know that we have to uh do the same I believe with CVN 82 and 83. Uh will you commit to working with this committee to make sure we keep our aircraft carrier production on track with the same efficiency and scheduling that we've been able to achieve uh with CVN 80 and 81 as we will hopefully with the path for CVN 82 and 83. Congressman, thanks for the question.
▶ 1:20:57Look, carrier strike is is a cornerstone to our naval power. It's necessary for the current and and all future fights. Uh I would say that what we are doing right now and and we do have some issues uh uh with 80 and 81 that we are working on as we speak uh to try to make sure that the schedule is is on time.
▶ 1:21:18Um we are looking at the entire force and trying to understand manned unmanned both in air, sea and undersea and what is the right balance and what is the right way to kind of have that uh work. Um and so uh we we continue to look at that.
▶ 1:21:38uh as I will say to you the the carriers are are quite important uh to the force and force structure and we are uh I look forward to working with you as we as that posture gets that posture review gets done. Thank you Admiral Kilby. I want to now focus on Amphibs. Uh we know that Congress has been uh very laser focused on that by setting a floor of 31 operational amphibs. Also making sure we have a maintenance plan that allows us to p to achieve a persistent 3.0 O arg mu presence.
▶ 1:22:09We've known in the last three requests in African we haven't been able to meet the crisis response request that's come out with our amphibs. Uh then in the Navy Navy's latest update in the update it states 3 point 3.0 argu presence is not a requirement. Um that's pretty interesting when Congress says that the 31 floor is a requirement and that we require a maintenance plan to achieve 3.0. Uh, why does the Navy characterize the 3.0 arguence as optional?
▶ 1:22:40I I don't mean it to characterize it as optional. I want to maximize the availability of our amphibious ships, and I've done poorly in that, but particularly in Wasp and Boxer deployments. So, I'm committed to getting our amphibious maintenance done on time so the Marines can embark and we can deploy as scheduled for the for the global force management process.
▶ 1:23:01Um our ship building numbers as you know come from force structure assessments which are derived in our ship building plan and the ship building plan that we have maintained has been 31. My estimate is I need to 46 amphibious ships. Gentleman's time here recognized general California Mr. Gari. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:23:25Secretary Felen, I was impressed and quite pleased by your testimony, both written and oral today, and your focus on the industrial base, the ability of America to build ships, to repair ships, and the focus that you have. I was hoping that my colleague, Mr.
▶ 1:23:43Kelly would be here as I spoke and bringing to your attention the ships act which is the implementation of the president's executive order about the um about our industrial base military industrial base and the maritime industrial base. I look forward to working with you on the implementation of that. There are multiple ways in which that will have to be carried out.
▶ 1:24:10But the essence of the ships act is to rebuild our commercial maritime base and in doing so enhance the ability of the naval uh ship building to be done. So uh we got a lot of work out ahead of us. I would ask for your support and any u ideas and suggestions you have about the ships act. We expect to move it this year.
▶ 1:24:38Maybe we'll get it done, but it does have bipartisan and bicaramel support. So, with that having been said, one of the challenges that the ships act will address is the contested logistics challenge. It's pretty clear right now that we do not have the capability of um our fleet in the Western Pacific through a long period of time because we do not have the logistical support available.
▶ 1:25:07Uh to achieve that the um ships act goes a long way. But there's another piece to it and that is the use of the Jones Act fleet as a opportunity to provide the necessary logistical maritime support. Uh we are moving this along.
▶ 1:25:29We would look at the Jones Act fleet and and develop a program in which some of those ships, for example, tankers and rollon rolloffs would be built to military specifications. Going to have to put a little bit of DoD money into it to achieve that. But then those ships would be available like the aircraft in the craft program.
▶ 1:25:55So I draw your attention to that as a solution to meet the necessary logistical support uh not only in the Pacific but also um in other parts of the world. Now are you willing to work with us on these two areas?
▶ 1:26:12First of all, the ship act and the uh implementation of the executive order and finally the u use of the Jones Act fleet as a backs stop for the logistic support that the millet that the Navy will need. Uh thank you Congressman for the question and I know it's an issue important to you and that you spent time on. Look, I think the ships act has a lot of great aspects to it and we have given some of our comments in on it.
▶ 1:26:41So I think it is critical to helping us with the maritime industrial base. In terms of commercial ship building and military ship building, it is something the Chinese do very very well and we need to start thinking about that more and more in terms of how we uh modify commercial ships and with military issues in mind.
▶ 1:27:03Uh so it is something we are spending time on and looking at and trying to get better ideas of how to do it because I think as Admiral Paparo likes to say it's how many holes in the ground can you get and we are trying to make sure we can optimize that and if if a conflict does take place commercial and logistic ships will be very very important to that effort.
▶ 1:27:25Uh there's an example next to you uh with the Marine Corps who are use who have found that some of the offshore support vessels for the um petroleum industry can be modified and used immediately by the Marine Corps. I'll let that stay there. Admiral Kilmer, you knew I was going to go here.
▶ 1:27:46And that has to do with uh that how do we make sure that the ships that are supposed to be going into availability are prepared for that availability that the status the capability of the ships are known before they even arrive at the repair facility. I'll just use one brief example re recognizing where we are in time, but USS America is going to go into availability.
▶ 1:28:12She has 191 open and inspect actions that were originally planned for the availability. We've pulled that left and are working with the fleet commander to do those open inspects early so we can properly inform the package. Gentleman's time is expired. Chair, I recognize from Texas, Dr. Jackson. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Really appreciate your time. Um earlier this year the US Navy announced the future Bethesda class expeditionary medical ship will be named the USNS supportmith.
▶ 1:28:41Um this modernized vessel will deliver life-saving capability selling faster than both the mercy and the comfort while providing worldclass forward deployed medical care wherever needed. Admiral Kilby, would you describe how these advanced medical vessels are essential to Navy medical corps's ability to deliver care in the time of conflict and how this ship will factor into the distributed maritime operations concept? Yes, sir. Thanks for the question. I've been involved with this effort for some number of years.
▶ 1:29:08Really excited about the medical community running at this and working to get involved in the requirements process and they worked faster than most. The this vessel is a role to care vessel. So realizing we have two hospital ships, we wanted to increase the density of our ships to be able to respond to massive casualties. So we're really good at medevacs of 123 sailors. We said, what if we have 50 sailors in the water? How do we respond to that? And this ship is a is a response to that action.
▶ 1:29:36So it really gets at the contested logistics problem and we need to continue to work for solutions like that. But I'm optimistic about this ship and what it will do for us, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. I appreciate that. I know there's some challenges especially this year with the budget with the ship building capacity but I do think it's important like you do as well and I think especially when you're looking at the Indopaccom theater it's it's it's critical um with the continuing with the continually emerging threats in Indoaccom we must possess unmanned undersea capabilities that meet the growing need for submerged operational
▶ 1:30:06awareness and payload delivery. Growth in the private market is generating new solutions in commercial undersea technology while reducing procurement and operational costs for the military. Secretary Failen, how is the Navy looking to leverage commercially available unmanned underwater vehicles to meet emerging mission needs and capability gaps and what can be done to accelerate the building of these platforms across the fleet? Congressman, good to see you and thanks for the question.
▶ 1:30:34Um look we are testing a number of different unmanned uh um platforms but in the air on the water and under the sea. Uh we are definitely pushing very hard with new companies. I you know when I traveled uh to Indopaccom and then came back I stopped in Los Angeles and spent some time with uh a big 3D manufacturing company and another company and who's doing some some some things that we're testing.
▶ 1:31:02Ceronics, another company that the Navy is is testing products with. So, and and sail drone is another one which I met at at the sea airspace uh uh conference here. So, we are testing a number of different ones to see and I think one of the keys and I think where we need to kind of change in the Navy. Again, this comes to a cultural change. We tend to test it and then if it doesn't work, we're like next. In the private market, as you know, we iterate. Tell us what's wrong. Tell us what's not working.
▶ 1:31:31let us try to fix it and make it better. And so this rapid technologies office that the admiral and I have been talking about is another way of doing that. And I think look to be perfectly honest I think one of the things we need and I hope the speed um uh legislation covers this is we need flexibility when it comes to unmanned because the technology is moving so rapidly.
▶ 1:31:55If you look at what happened in the Ukraine in that recent conflict, that was a very different drone than one they had a month ago. And so to be stuck with a program with that platform, we can't have that. So we are going to need more flex when we spend particularly in unmanned because of the speed. And so I think the way we procure unmanned is something that I look forward to working with this committee on and doing that. If there's specific programs, I know Admiral Kilby could address that. Yes, sir. I think you're absolutely right.
▶ 1:32:23I think the companies you mentioned, Andro, Seronic, people like that, they're they're ready. They're willing, they they they want to do this and I think like we've learned a lot over the last few years with what's going on in Ukraine and Russia and what's happening in the Red Sea. Uh we have to get on top of this. This is where the future's at. And uh you know, obviously anything we can do from this committee to help, I will be uh anxious to assist that. With that, I yield back, Mr. Chair. Thank the gentleman. And and Mr.
▶ 1:32:48Secretary, I would urge you, I know you got a lot on your plate, but make sure the folks that are with you that work on acquisition are looking at our speed act. And if there's things that we need to add that aren't in there, it is a product that's still evolving and developing. And I would say the same thing to the general and the admiral. We want your input. We want this to be meaningful reform that's going to make a difference so we can get after these rapid technological advancements because you're exactly right.
▶ 1:33:14We cannot keep doing things the way we've been doing it and expect to be successful in the future with what you just described. So I ask for your help. With that, I recognize the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Molton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General Smith, I've questioned you repeatedly over the past two years about what actual progress Marines have made on the ground in the Pacific, uh, putting the theory of force design into practice to meet the China threat. Having recently returned from the Philippines, I was more impressed than I imagined with what your Marines have already achieved. So, please keep pressing.
▶ 1:33:44John Smith, I also question you repeatedly about what the realities are on the ground in Quanico where you're training the future leaders of the core. And I'm concerned that standards have been lowered to keep up graduation numbers. Part of the blame, I know, lies with some of my colleagues here in Congress. So, I want to make clear that many of us want you to keep standards high. He is the best who is trained in the severest school and students who fail should be out. Period.
▶ 1:34:09General, when the basic school used to require a 20-mile hike, but that has now been reduced 25% to 15 miles. How is that not lowering the standard? Yeah, Congressman, thanks for that question, and I appreciate your continued advocacy for the basis school. As you know, we produce the most lethal warriors there. Um, we have simply modified our standard. When I went through the basis school, we conducted a 25 mile hike carrying full kit, carrying a base plate, a bipod. I understand, General, but here's my problem.
▶ 1:34:39The McCree standard in the fleet is still 20 miles with 70 pounds, right? So, so you're training, you're asking Marine leaders to meet a standard below what they'll have what lance corporals and PSCs they'll lead in the fleet have to meet. Well, what I would say, Congressman, is is most of the officers coming out of the fleet, coming out of TBS are not infantry officers. Those that are infantry officers will go on to the infantry officer course where, as you know, the standards are incredibly high. Right.
▶ 1:35:05But if you're a logistics officer assigned to a build an infantry battalion, you still have to march with the battalion, right? You do. So, General, have you graduated any officers from TBS who failed to make the 15 mile hike? We have not. Sure. Okay. I've heard that's not the case from basic school students themselves when I had lunch with them down back in February. So, please take confirmation of that for the record. General Smith, do you still believe the Marine Corps philosophy of train how we fight? I do.
▶ 1:35:30So, I checked with the Marines in the Pacific and they don't have ice baths to cool off when you get hot. We didn't have them in Iraq either. So, why is that luxury afforded to officers at TBS at every hike break? Well, what I would say, Congressman, is is we want to train smarter, not harder. Well, do they understand that their Marines will not have that in the fleet? They do understand that. But if I have that ability to provide that additional care, then I'm going to do that to make sure I just want to make sure they're standard, they're trained to a warfighting standard. They are war fighting focused.
▶ 1:35:59I guarantee you, Congressman, I don't believe that the Chinese army has ice baths. Now, the core is proud of making its numbers when every other service has failed, but topline numbers are only as good as the Marines who make them up. So, that's why I want to make sure you feel the pressure from this committee to keep up those standards. Admiral Kilby, if you were defending the Taiwan Strait, how would you rather what would you rather have one aircraft carrier or $13 billion worth of unmanned systems?
▶ 1:36:27It's a hard question to answer without qualifying questions, but uh if I could put those drones on Taiwan, I'd put them on Taiwan. Well, I'm I'm good. I'm glad to hear that. Uh many admirals have not answered that question the same way, but I'll tell you, every junior officer that I've asked this question of, and I asked this question a lot, has said what you just did, which is we'd rather take that $13 billion aircraft carrier money and put it towards unmanned systems. I I did have a qualifier, though. I I I get it.
▶ 1:36:52We we don't have time for all the qualifiers, but General Smith, drones are now responsible for over 70% of casualties in Ukraine, more than any other weapon system combined. What portion of the Marine Corps budget is spent on unmanned systems? I can't give you an exact number, but it is a small percentage. I I've been told it's 2%. So, if the goal is lethality, and that's 70% of lethality in Ukraine, how much more lethal would the Marine Corps be if you doubled that to a mere 4%. Yeah, we would obviously be more lethal.
▶ 1:37:21And how much time does each lieutenant at TBS spend taking out targets with drones? Uh, I'll have to get back to you on that with an exact answer, but the answer is limited. It's limited. How much time does each lieutenant spend taking out targets with rifles? Uh, multiple hours. Yeah. Several weeks of of training on the rifle. As you know, sir, every Marine's a rifleman. That's our creed, right? And and and I love rifles. Rifles were also invented in the 15th century. Look, horses are still great animals, too.
▶ 1:37:48I just wonder whether we should have more horses at Camp Pendleton than we have drones at TBS. We've got to aggressively make sure that our war fighters are prepared for the future fight. And the future fight is today when in Ukraine 70% of casualties are with drones. So I want to see those Marine lieutenants out there getting drones on target as much or more as they're doing that with their rifles. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 1:38:16I thank the gentleman chair and I recognize gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, first of all, Admiral Kilby, uh, can drones provide an airfield anywhere in the world that provides a strike group off US sovereign airfield like a carrier can like we just did against the Houthis? Can drones give you that capability that an aircraft carrier to have a sovereign airfield in foreign lands where we may not have friends? Can it provide that capability?
▶ 1:38:47No, it cannot. Okay. Thank you. And uh General Smith, um rifles were invented a long time. I just got a a a Mississippi rifle given to me for my retirement. Uh but it is a percussion cap 58 caliber rifle ball that you can load two times in three minutes. That is uh 19th century technology.
▶ 1:39:11Would you agree the firearms that we have today are not 15th or 16th century capabilities? Yes, sir. Our M16s are quite modern. Yeah. I mean, they're lighter. They fire at a rapid rate of fire. You have machine guns and all those things. Can, to your knowledge, can drones by themselves replace Marines and make moral or quick decisions that all the data is not in for on a battlefield the same that a Marine rifleman can? No, sir.
▶ 1:39:40the individual rifleman and the mind thereof is faster than any computing model. And I'm all about drones. I believe we need those two and I believe they're cheap and they're capable and we've seen that and we need to use that technology. But it does not replace a thinking individual on the ground who is can make decisions that maybe is not in the data base. Is that correct? Sir, that is correct. Only a marine with a thinking mind can make a moral decision. And I think that applies to sailors too. Uh, Admiral.
▶ 1:40:09Uh, I I know it probably doesn't army guys, though, cuz we're not quite as smart. Uh, I I do, uh, want to thank Mr. Gar Mindy and Senator Kelly and Senator Young for the SHIPS act. Uh, Secretary Failen, we uh, I met in your office and I appreciate that. I appreciate the fresh uh, business side that you're bringing to our ship building industry and to our maritime industry as a whole.
▶ 1:40:36I hope that we will continue on that path to look ways to more rapidly build m build ships to use uh automated technology or unmanned systems to replace people where we can. I don't think that rem means replacing all people.
▶ 1:40:53But what other ideas do you have to increase the ability other than and I all three of y'all we have to get a consistent demand signal from the Navy and the Marine Corps of what we need and the Marine Corps is pretty good. I know how many amphibs you need and LSVs, but we need to be consistent with industry because they cannot continue to adjust when we say, "Oh, we want four destroyers. No, we just really want zero. No, we want one." We've got to be consistent. Are y'all committed to give us a consistent demand of what ships we need built?
▶ 1:41:26Hey sir, I'll start. Um, for the Navy, we want to produce a Navy that we can man, train, and equip and use effectively. And so with the given budget constraints, I'm going to do recommend to the secretary that that's what we buy. To the extent I can do that with consistency, I exactly and agree with you wholeheartedly and I understand the impact and the demand signal on industry. But but I'm I feel a commitment to the secretary to make sure we're manned, trained, and equipped.
▶ 1:41:54Those are the readiness accounts and the secretary referred to that I want to make sure are solvent so we can employ the Navy the way we want to do. So there's a little bit of a pushpull there. I'm not trying to be cute with you. I am trying to say we need a bigger Navy and it needs to be man trained and equipped to do what it needs to do. And with that, I know uh we we've spoken at length about this, so I won't delay that.
▶ 1:42:21Tell me though, uh I think uh Congressman Molton had a great point on where we can we do need to replace men and women with machines, especially in hostile environments. In what way can we use uh USVs or uh all the unmanned systems, whether subsurface on the surface or drones in the air? In what ways can we use those to complement our Marines and Navy across the world?
▶ 1:42:49What what plans do we have to use as many unmanned systems as we can? Well, I'll start with that. I answered that question. It's non-traditional sea denial specifically focused for Admiral Paparo and Admiral Kaylor in the near term. But they don't replace the legacy platforms we need. It's a combination and we need to work with the secretary on a vision for a hybrid fleet which has both of those moving forward. But I'll yield to the comment. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:43:14We're we're exercising and practicing with some big wing drones, our MQ9s, our other drone technologies, but they are complimentary of the man fleet. They're complimentary of our F-35s. They're a loyal wingman. Uh they don't replace a manned aircraft. I yel back, Mr. Chairman. Yeah. Before we move on from this that Mr. Kelly was asking an important question and I've stated in here repeatedly and I can't emphasize this enough. Budget can't drive policy.
▶ 1:43:43Policy has to drive budget. When Secretary I mean when General Kelly asked you about the numbers you need. You need to tell us what the numbers you need to meet the threat. And if the budget will only allow you to to achieve part of that number, then tell us that and put the balance in your unfunded requirements list. It is our job to find you the money. It is your job to define what you need to meet the threat.
▶ 1:44:09And I I I just really am frustrated by the fact that presidents, both parties give us budgets that that show us what they would like to do that it just informs us. does not limit us. I know it limits you, but we still need you to tell us what you need. And I think that's what General Kelly was getting after in that question. So that understand there's what's in the budget request and then there's the euper list.
▶ 1:44:36We look at that euper list as being the balance of what you said you need. So I'm sorry to take that time, but I do want to drive that point home. Thank you. And with that, I recognize gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Keing. I would like just to uh just if you could comment on uh another area of concern uh and competition uh that we have with China and with Russia in particular uh and we have the opportunity to work more with our allies uh particularly our European allies in this respect
▶ 1:45:07and that's what's happening in the Arctic. uh you know there's uh other programs outside the Navy National uh science uh programs that that have been cut that deal with for instance uh issues the office of polar programs is one but they're dealing with a lot of the research issues that necessary uh component to to us being competitive in these areas. So I I want to ask has the Navy undertaken those things that are is it duplicative?
▶ 1:45:35Is the Navy getting that kind of research that it needs in the Arctic areas? Uh what are we doing? How are we cooperating with our allies in this regard? And what competition do we do have? Uh I know it's an area more and more that we must stay competitive with. So I don't know which of you would like to uh address that. Secretary, if I could, I'll start and yield to you. We are interested in the Arctic.
▶ 1:45:58uh we do a uh every two years a exercise in the Arctic called ISEX which is primarily focused on our undersea platforms submarines in particular but over the past I would say five years we've been pushing our strike groups farther north because we want to have that capability so and working finally with the Coast Guard and NAVC on the development of their cutter program so I do think there's increased activity I am concerned about it we are pushing north uh
▶ 1:46:29to operate there more. What do we have for assets though? Really only a couple really. Well, we're restricted. We are sir. Absolutely. But we're restricted as you know on times a year we can push up there but we want our to the extent we can push our strike groups up there and our amphibious right groups. We want to have that capability. What does Russia have for assets? It's amazing the disparity is is a concern. Yes sir. Concur.
▶ 1:46:54uh so I think that's an area with everything else but it's an increasing area of competition and interest because of the great reserves that are there as well as uh some efforts by China and Russia uh in terms of uh navigation constraints in that area. Uh and so I think it's with everything else going on in the world I think it's something we better pay attention to more uh and I think you'll need help from us uh to do this.
▶ 1:47:21we're we're miserably behind uh in assets and the availability that we have to to compete. Uh so I want to raise that as a concern, but I want to point out what I think is a program that the Navy has and that I think can be a great model. Uh I think it could be expanded within the Navy as a model, but I think it could be used in the other branches.
▶ 1:47:44uh we have uh in our area working with the University of Massachusetts marine and undersea technology research program that we work jointly and it I think it's a win-win situation. you're using a university uh they actually constructed a curriculum for the Navy uh in conjunction with the Navy where they're training individuals uh and they're doing research at the same time uh and they're they're concentrating in this instance mostly on uh unmanned
▶ 1:48:15undersea autonomous uh vehicles and everything but they're learning the robotics they're doing the research on all of these areas and combine it with ocean research at the same time. But what's actually happened is uh it's been a great funnel for personnel. Uh the people that are studying here in these grants go in and they serve our our country at the end of this so so often. So I don't know how familiar you are with that but how much are you working with universities?
▶ 1:48:44I think this program you have can really be transferable to the other branches as well. Uh we have personnel needs, skilled personnel needs. uh and this is a is a way to do that and get research at the same time. So maybe you could comment on what you have for conjunction uh for what you're doing with universities and research and personnel and and how this kind of program can be duplicated or expanded. Well, I I think it's a great program.
▶ 1:49:13We also work with the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Texas. So, those programs are super helpful and I have no push back on that and agree. No, I was just wondering uh if that can be expanded and uh I've looked at and had budget hearings with the other branches and it seems the Navy is ahead of uh the other branches in utilizing this.
▶ 1:49:34Uh so your experience is has been as I described it one where uh the research is there plus it is a it's a portal to to get some actually important personnel people as well. So yes sir. Well thank you for your work. I hope that can be uh looked at and duplicated. It's I think it's a really a win-win situation. I yield back. Uh chair and I recognize general from Tennessee, Dr. Dejer. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you all for being here today.
▶ 1:50:00Uh Admiral Kilby, the Navy's pilot shortfall is increasingly concentrated in high-skilled strike fighter and electronic attack pilots. Surveys show aviators want flexible contract terms and more merit-based retention bonuses. What are you doing to improve this issue? And have you seen any progress? And do you need any additional authorities from Congress? He sir, it's got our attention. It's it's had our attention for some time.
▶ 1:50:26It's not a new issue for us, but I think it's an issue we really have to keep in close control and understand and follow. I am seeing progress. I don't know that I need additional help from you. I do think special pays uh when we need that and having the authority to give those special pays is an important tool in the tool bag to retain and and gain those folks to serve our country. Yeah. And staying with you, you have 23,000 fewer sailors than needed to man the fleet and only 89% of the positions were filled as of March.
▶ 1:50:55Are you concerned at all with this readiness issue and what is the Navy doing not just to recruit but to restructure how we think about crew models, contractor support, and training pipelines? Well, I'll try to be brief here, sir. I am concerned about it. It's my number two concern behind ship building and ship repair. I am optimistic in where we are with recruiting this year and where we frankly turned around since the mid of 2024.
▶ 1:51:19We saw a change in behavior in our structure and we put a lot of emphasis on it to get after it and we're in a reasonably good place. But to your point, 23 uh 22,950 gaps at sea is a big deal. I think we'll be in a better place at the end of this year. I don't want to go back in the wrong direction of the history though where we reduced crew manning and we increased load on the crew.
▶ 1:51:41So we've made an adjustment over the last several years where we added 15,000 bullets at seed so we can properly man the ships to do the work we have. So I don't want to back off that and I want to manage it and recruit to make the Navy do what the nation needs it to do. When you talk to sailors or squadron commanders, what are they telling you they need most? Well, we're we're really hurting at the apprentice level now. Those are where the majority of our gaps at CR.
▶ 1:52:09So, takes nine months to get a recruit through boot camp and to a ship with no additional training. And we're just seeing a turn in that. When I testified, I think two months ago, I said the gaps at sea were 23,200. Now, we're 29 thou 22,950 and we're trending in the right direction. I think we'll be at 18,000 at the end of this year if we stand pace. So, we just need to have the machine do what it needs to do to get sailors through that pipeline to ships to reduce those gaps.
▶ 1:52:38Are you hearing much about pay and incentives or quality of life issues in the service that's driving individuals to leave? Possibly. I I can't make that connection. I can tell you the quality of service has our full attention because we feel that we have to treat our sailors like worldclass athletes to keep them in the Navy. So, the secretary's focused on barracks. I'm focused on barracks. I'm focused on Wi-Fi. I'm focused on paying people on time. I'm I'm focused on creating an experience for them where they feel valued and do not want to leave. Okay.
▶ 1:53:07Uh shifting to conventional prompt strike, Secretary Felen and Admiral Kilby, you can chime in too. Could you all provide an update on the conventional uh prompt strike and from your perspective, what could Congress provide to help get this uh capability to cross the finish line without cutting corners or overloading the industrial base? Yeah, I'll start. We've had a couple of challenging tests with the army. We just had a recently successful test. I'm optimistic about the program. We need the program.
▶ 1:53:33It has a place in our there's a hole in our munitions skill set, you know, below nuclear where I think this is a critical capability for us and will first field on the ZoomL class destroyers and then ultimately on submarines. So, I'm completely behind it. Secretary, do you have anything to add? No, I agree with everything you said. Okay. I imagine one of the hardest parts about standing up a program like CPS is navigating the tension between urgency and risk tolerance.
▶ 1:53:59At this stage, what's the biggest challenge you're wrestling with internally, whether technical, cultural, or bureaucratically? What would make the biggest difference from our side of the house? I will have to take that question for the record and get with Vice Admiral Wolf. I I'm tracking it with him and I I don't know of a specific thing to give you, but I'll take the question for the record and come back to you, sir. Fair enough. Thank you, gentlemen. I yield back. chair and I recognize gentle lady from Pennsylvania, Miss Hulahan. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much for your testimony, gentlemen.
▶ 1:54:28I'm going to pull a little bit on Representative Molton's uh line of questioning uh which regarded sort of the balance between uh lethality as defined by physicality and lethality as defined by modern warfare and modern technology. uh we all recognize and I've been supportive of the fact that physical endurance and combat readiness are foundational to the military and that people should be adhere to the standards that we uh have formed for them regardless of who they are.
▶ 1:54:56Uh today's battlefield however increasingly requires new forms of expertise that Mr. Molton mentioned a few of including cyber operations and drone uh piloting and advanced data analysis. Uh so the traditional view of lethality has certainly evolved that uh traditional view of being physical strength and kinetic capability has to expand in my opinion to include technological proficiency and cognitive dominance as well.
▶ 1:55:22So in this uh conversation that we've collectively been having about the importance of lethality, which again I support wholeheartedly, how would you think or do you think about the evolution of the definition of lethality is for the individual troop? And can you please define what you think modern lethality is? And I'll ask General Smith to talk about that first. Yes, ma'am. Thanks for that question. So every Marine is a rifleman.
▶ 1:55:49So when it comes down to it, it ultimately comes down to one marine versus an adversary. After all the drones are expended, after all the artillery rounds are fired and all the ordinances expended off of our aircraft, it comes down to one rifleman looking down the rifle sights at another rifleman. And that is who we are as a Marine Corps. That's fundamental to who we are. So even now in a modern warfare environment where we're talking about drones on drones, uh you would boil it down to the rifle.
▶ 1:56:19I I would, ma'am. Every Marine is a rifleman. That's our ethos. It's fundamental to who we are. It doesn't mean that we don't we don't prioritize drones because we used to shoot a few thousand meters. Now we're shooting tens of thousands. Understood. Understood. But it's an ethos. And so as long as that person is capable of being an effective rifle person, uh you believe that they are lethal? They they are as long as they can hit their target at 500 meters with iron sights. Uh yes, ma'am. Thank you. Uh Admiral, any any comments on what modern lethality is defined as? Yes. Uh ma'am, thanks for the question.
▶ 1:56:49A couple things. A little bit different. Uh the Navy is a little bit different than Marine Corps in this regard. We're a highly technical service where sailors are trained to do specific things. So, I'd say at a base level, just like the Marine Corps, we want to optimize human performance. That means sleep, understanding where they're at, care for them, all that. Three bags full. We need to do uh even better at that as far as making sure leaders are engaged with their troops and understand where they are from a from a wellness perspective.
▶ 1:57:20So, I'm all over that break. The next piece is that all those individual sailors are trained and current and proficient in their task. That task can be many things. I could be shooting a tomahawk. I could be defending the ship with a standard missile. I could be a quartermaster taking a fix. I could be a CS preparing meals. Optimizing their performance in that regard is what I consider lethality. Yeah, I 100% agree.
▶ 1:57:45you know, the person when I was served active duty and my job was to make sure I helped design what amounts to Iron Dome at this point in time and I was lethal because I was able to be effective in doing that job. And so we each have a different job and what I would argue lethality is as much as anything is making sure that we are optimized as a force that we are individually doing the thing that we were tasked to do. And I think that's one of the places where we get ourselves caught up on the physicality of things is not always what makes us the most lethal as a body and as a force.
▶ 1:58:15I'm going to move on and what remains in my questions. Um the last question that I have for you um has to do with barracks. I'm on the uh military personnel uh subcommittee, the ranking member and also was the ranking member on the quality of life committee. You talked appropriately about the importance of your barracks uh initiative. The army unfortunately has diverted a billion dollars of resources that were supposed to be allocated for barracks to the southern border.
▶ 1:58:40Uh would you please commit to me that you are not planning on doing that with any of the moves that you are doing to the Los Angeles area with your Marines? Yes, ma'am. I'm committed to improving the the quality of life of our Marines. I'm committed to spending every dollar that's appropriated to us for the purpose for which it was appropriated. And that includes barracks 2030 which is our most consequential barracks investment in our history. Thank you. And since I have 20 seconds left, can you tell me what happened with the airplanes falling off the ships and whether or not heads rolled as a result?
▶ 1:59:09Ma'am, there are four investigations ongoing on the Truman Strike Group right now. None of those are released. I'm committed to letting that process happen and conducting actions as appropriate and then reporting back to the committee when those are complete. Thank you. I appreciate it and I yield back. I thank the gentle lady. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Nebraska, General Bacon. Thank you to all three of you being here. Thank you for your leadership. I appreciate you being here today. Uh my first question is to uh General or Admiral Kirby and General Smith.
▶ 1:59:37What is the number one capability that you're lacking right now for a fight with China, which is our pacing threat? What what what's the gaps that this committee here can help fill? Admiral Kirby, I'd say munitions are the thing that um in the top three that bother me. Ship repair and ship building, those are things that Secretary and I are after to improve. I don't know that I need more help from you in that regard. Recruiting and manning, that's the second thing. I think we're on pace to do that.
▶ 2:00:04I don't think I can get more help from you, but uh, we have, uh, we have to turn the tide here if we're going to be in protraction. So, preferred munition production as well as second tier and third tier vendors that may be able to compete in that space that we haven't been open to in the past. I think we ought to be open to that consideration and get help from you if needed to do so. I think that's good insight because we see in Ukraine they're burning munitions faster than anybody can build them. General Smith.
▶ 2:00:33Yeah, I would concur with with my shipmate Admiral Kilby. Munitions are key and for us mobility is key. We have to get to the fight. We have to be able to maneuver in the fight and we have to be able to strike at range. So advanced longrange weapon systems are key to us. Thank you, Admiral Kirby. Ukraine attained or attained uh sea supremacy in the Black Sea without really a navy. What are the lessons learned for the US Navy?
▶ 2:00:59Well, it's a different um a little bit of a there are lessons to be learned there and I think the commitment to get to a hybrid fleet and learn learning to use unmanned more effectively is a path we're on. We're in a little bit of a different place because we're not now. We will homeland defense is our number one thing, but where I tend to think of our Navy deployed forward to bring effects to bear, I've got a sustainment piece, an employment piece, a deployment piece for those vehicles.
▶ 2:01:25So, I I do want to learn those lessons and we're applying them in the context of non-traditional sea denial that I explained earlier. I do think there's a coupling of traditional assets, manned planes and unmanned aircraft, manned ships and unmanned ships that we need to explore and and really diversify our fleet to have it be capable. Yeah, it's worth thinking through because the nature of the fight is changing.
▶ 2:01:53Secretary Failen, there was a bad report on Naval Air Station Key West. Uh how focused is the Navy Department on ensuring we have good family housing? Uh thank you for that question, Congressman. So um I have ordered the uh uh the Navy to review all of our barracks after what I saw at Guam, which was appalling to me.
▶ 2:02:17Um and uh those sailors and marines have been moved out of the building they were in uh and put into a new building uh new barracks that was that was built. Um so we are in the middle of that review. I'm waiting to get the results of that. Uh and then I will be going out to Key West as well to look at that. The Marines are beat the Navy to the punch on this and have been reviewing barracks I think for about the last year or two uh and are in the middle of modernizing those.
▶ 2:02:45I saw some at camp lune that are getting updated because some of the ones they're in are also not really good and that needs to change. So I look forward to sharing that with the committee as soon as I get that report done. And to your prior question on ways uh on munitions and ways you could help. One thing I would also say is we are going to have to in our contracting own our IP.
▶ 2:03:07We pay for a lot of our IP and we get hung up by the by the big prime saying, "Well, we need to fix it because we own the IP or we're not going to give you that IP." It doesn't work. It doesn't and we need to really change that. If I may follow up, you know, the GO GAO gave us a failing score in barracks, all the departments on barracks and dormitories. We had a report a couple weeks ago saying that Secretary of Defense had moved out about a billion dollars out of barracks into other needs.
▶ 2:03:36But yeah, we got a failing grade in dorms and you just touched on Guam and some other places. Have you seen money being moved out of the Navy's accounts to support dormitories or I have not. Okay. No sir, we're still fully committed to barracks 2030. Not to my knowledge. Okay. Thank you. Just let us let you know we got our eyes on it even though there's mixed feedback I'm getting. I wanted to ask you a question on the slickum briefly. I think it provides us a lot of options.
▶ 2:04:04How are we doing with the slickum n uh deployment or production? So, we're committed to slickcomumn. Uh I I think um we had some questions in other hearings about platforms, which platforms. I think initially my view, my opinion is the submarine is the initial platform to deliver that. We're committed to the program to deliver it on the schedule of 2034. that there may be some options to look at some interim capability and uh we look forward to exploring those as well.
▶ 2:04:34Mr. Chairman, I yield back my minus 5 seconds. Gentlemen, yields back. Chairman, I recognize Mr. Golden of Maine. Thank you. Uh, Admiral Kilby, you've consistently testified before the committee about the flight 3 DDG delivering capabilities of of important need to the fleet, specifically u, you know, the radar, which is going to be key to anti-air and ballistic missile defense. Uh, one assumes this remains a high priority in places like the Red Sea, Persian Gulf or South China Sea.
▶ 2:05:04Do you agree with that? I agree completely, sir. And the Navy's ship building plan envisions 23 flight 3 ships. You currently have one in the fleet, correct? Uh, well, yes, sir. One is about ready to deliver. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. The pending reconciliation bill includes two DDG flight 3s. Congressional intent was pretty clear that these would result in a three ship cadence in FY26 and FY27.
▶ 2:05:32I'm now hearing behind the scenes that the plan that we don't have yet, complete plan from you, is going to goose egg the DDG program in your request for FY26. So, I've been on the committee for six years, and I've heard from the Navy consistently a desire that the two DDG yards achieve a 1.5 ship per year rate of production. But here, you're signaling demand that would not support that rate of production.
▶ 2:05:59So, do you envision paying these yards to build ships or I'm sorry, I'll rephrase that, to not build ships, or do you expect these yards to achieve a 1.5 ship production rate only to then turn around and lay ship builders off? Uh, thank you for the question, Congressman. Look, the president and I are committed to national defense and are committed to ship building uh as it relates uh to the budget.
▶ 2:06:28You know, look, we are working very closely with uh the OSD and the OM on this as we speak uh basically daily. Um and and so uh we have a good idea of what we need and and and don't need and that is and I I don't want to get in front of the president on that and I know he'll be coming out with a budget soon, but I think ship building will will fare quite well in that budget. Ship building, yes. But I'm talking about destroyers.
▶ 2:06:58Yeah, I can't go into specifics with you right now, Congressman, but uh I understand the question. I think, you know, we are at the end of line on the current destroyers and looking at DDGX. As I said before, we're looking at the whole force and trying to understand what the whole force posture should be in terms of what we're learning and what's going on and and and how it how we should be structured in effect and destroyers are important component of that. Yes.
▶ 2:07:25You know, across the country, we have skilled ship builders, but they are aging. And every yard is trying to bring in new ship builders to train them up to have the skills that they need to build the best, most quality, most lethal Navy that this country needs. on this committee. We have found through studies which we partnered with the Navy to do that it takes on average seven year years to develop a you know high asset fully skilled Navy ship builder.
▶ 2:07:55So this rate, you know, the signal, the consistency of the signal demand from the Navy and then to actually deliver on acquiring at that rate is key to not only developing that workforce taking seven years to get them there, but maintaining them. And you cannot build a future DDGX without ship builders. I agree with you. And I have more ships than our shipyards can handle for the next 10 years.
▶ 2:08:25Whether it's a destroyer, whether it's a tanker, whether it's an oiler, whether it's a submarine. So I am not worried about the demand signal we have. It is getting those workers and getting them trained there. It it is there and I think it's incenting the private sector to help us as well. So this is a as I said, it's really going to be a whole of government approach.
▶ 2:08:46I think the demand signal, you know, as uh Congressman Courtney mentioned, which we recently did, I I hear what I'm speaking to is is a consistent concern that has been raised that these two yards get to a 1.5 ship per year production rate when you're not actually then demanding that which will inevitably lead to ups and downs to bathtubs in the workforce where you are hiring people, training people, and then laying people off.
▶ 2:09:16What what we are asking for is simply consistency. And it's it's just as important as how big the Navy you want to have and how quickly you want to get there. You're not going to maintain the best ship builders in the world if they don't think it's a consistent career and you need their skills and assets. And I would ask for you to give that some deep Gentleman's time is expired. Chair and I recognize gentle from Texas, Mr. Fallon. Uh thank you, Mr.
▶ 2:09:46Chair, and thank the witnesses for coming today. I Secretary, I think we're all elated and relieved that there has been a then the news of the turnaround with recruiting. What I'd love to ask is can you talk a little bit about the targeted goal and where we're at and compare that to last year and then more importantly drill down to the foundational reasons why there has been a turnaround. uh and and you may not know exactly that right yet, but was it messaging and advertising?
▶ 2:10:15Was it changes in the recruiting approach? Was it changes at the top, you know, uh in the chain of command? Was it increased access? And then if you could do a deep dive and come back and share with us because whatever we're doing right, I want to learn the lessons from that and keep doing it. I'll let Admiral Toby give you the specific numbers as to where we sit there. Uh my view is I I think that um we have and we are repositioning our branding.
▶ 2:10:45I think the Marines do an excellent job in terms of branding and recruiting. They were the only ones that always hit their goals. That is correct. And so we have begun and I think there's a reason why they put some of their best uh best officers in recruiting jobs. So they they've made it a priority and made it important. That is something we are looking to do with the the Navy as well, which is prioritizing recruiting, making it more important, saying this is critical.
▶ 2:11:11I think one of the reasons we've gotten the bump, to be honest, is I think the president's election definitely brought a pop and we've seen a pop in the numbers. Uh, and I think that, um, I can't take you through that math. Sure. But I'd just like to have a deep dive to know because I want to begin in doubts and uncertainties. Whatever the reasons for the recruiting the uh success, we just need to keep doing it or make us aware of it in the public as well. Admiral, yeah, I I I'll we'll generate a report and send it to you, sir.
▶ 2:11:38I do think it is a a large number of factors and and I welcome all of them to do what we need to do to bring the folks in in the Navy. We did have a change in leadership. We elevated the position of the recruiting command commander. We changed our daily and visual management to look at it every day. We took away monthly goals and said just bring in everyone you can. We were more uh thoughtful about medical waiverss.
▶ 2:12:01We were being very conservative to not bring someone in who might have a problem and we made a a a a judgment call based on that desire to serve and the fact that we could take care of that sailor. So I think there's a ton of things that happened there, but I'm focused on it every day, not every month. It great because it was all hands on deck and that's what we needed. And you want to talk about any kind of weapon systems, we don't have human beings to operate them. They're worthless.
▶ 2:12:26Uh and and on that note, Admiral, is there any uh specific shortfalls as far as in let's say cyber medical subs uh that you're still experiencing? Yeah, there are some areas we're challenged on medical people is a challenge for us. Um and uh there's a few other areas. I think we're actually in a pretty good shape for nuclear sailors to come in both officer and enlisted. That's an area we've been challenged before. So, um I can get back to you on the specifics. Could you And how about with cyber?
▶ 2:12:56How we doing with cyber? Cyber uh from a recruitment or a training perspective, sir? Uh both. Okay. For recruitment, I think we're okay. It's an exciting mission and people feel fulfilled when they come to it. Meeting the demands of the cyber comm as far as training offensive and defensive teams. We're good defense. We got some work to do on offense. Awesome. Thank you.
▶ 2:13:18uh in general I wanted to talk to you about it's it's clear that the you know the biggest threat we have is uh you know peer adversary China Indoacific and you know when I look at Okinawa and we had 19,000 Marines in Okinawa and then we're there's a plan in place and that that's commencing that to reduce that to 10 and it would be it would make sense to me considering sitting on this committee and also on the intel committee to do everything we can to keep those Marines on Okinawa and not only
▶ 2:13:49uh not be decreasing the number but increasing that number considering the threat that's there and we all think about and talk about Taiwan. Uh so I wanted to hear your thoughts on that and what can we do? I general would love to have a meeting and see and do whatever we can do on this committee being the chair the subcommittee chair on military personnel uh to help uh mitigate whatever political things we'd have to talk about with our Japanese allies and partners. But I wanted to hear your thoughts.
▶ 2:14:13Well, Congressman, what I would say is President Trump and Prime Minister Sheibba confirmed the vital importance of the steady implementation of the realignment of US forces in Japan at their February summit. I agree with Admiral Paparo that currently Marine Corps forces in the first island chain are optimized and that my best military advice is that any change to that optimized layown increases risk.
▶ 2:14:36Um so again we are currently optimized as we stand now and any change to that optimization increases risk to the opans and increases risk to the combatant commander. Gentleman's time's expired chair and I recognize gentle lady from California Miss Jacobs. Thank you Mr. Chairman and uh Admiral Kirby General Smith secretary failen uh thank you for being here. I represent San Diego so I look forward to this hearing every year.
▶ 2:15:00Obviously, the Marines and Navy are integral to my community, and I wish that I was able to spend my five minutes asking you about child care and housing and ship building and how we could make our Navy and Marine Corps everything we need for the war of the future. But unfortunately, um because of uh President Trump's uh deployment of 700 active duty Marines uh into Los Angeles over the objections of local officials, uh I will be asking about that instead.
▶ 2:15:28So, General Smith, first uh I'd like to ask you uh about uh training. I know it's never standard practice to train Marines in crowd control and non-lethal engagement. I've spoken to folks uh at 1MEF. I I saw uh your uh testimony yesterday for the Senate Armed Services Committee uh in which you said that all 700 Marines currently deployed to Los Angeles have received training or are currently being trained in deescalation, crowd control, and less than lethal means.
▶ 2:15:56I received a response to a request for information from the Marines yesterday that said that only a portion of the battalion has completed this training and the remainder will be fully trained shortly. Will any Marine be allowed near civilians in Los Angeles before completing the full course of this training? No, ma'am. Excellent. Good to hear. Um, precisely how many hours of formal instruction has each Marine already received on crowd control and less than lethal tactics?
▶ 2:16:25They've received four days worth of training. Four. Yesterday you said more than two hours, but you'd get back with specifics. Now you can say precisely four days. Four days. Okay, good to know. Within the last hour, CNN has begun reporting that quote, "The 700 Marines mobilized to the LA area on Monday night are still undergoing training as of Wednesday morning, and it is not yet clear when they will be employed onto the streets to help with protests." End quote. according to the US Northern Command spokesperson.
▶ 2:16:55And yet yesterday, the Secretary of Defense was in front of the House Appropriations Committee where he told that committee that as far as training, all of the units on the ground had been fully trained in their capabilities of what they're executing on the ground. Should this committee believe your statements today and the Northcom spokesperson or the Secretary of Defense's testimony in front of the Appropriations Committee? Well, ma'am, Marines are always training. Every time there's a there's a down moment, we're rehearsing. We're training.
▶ 2:17:22So training to to deploy has been completed, but they are going to continue to train. And every time there's a break in in anything, there's a break in the action, so to speak. Marines are training. We train constantly. Sure. But the training for non-lethal and deescalation and force, you what they're doing in LA is very different from what you normally train for. So I don't I'm not sure the training is exactly the same. At least I hope it's not. It is different, but it can still be repeated and it can still be drilled.
▶ 2:17:53Okay. And it was clear from conversations that I've had uh with uh the Marines and from your answers yesterday to the Senate that the Marines in LA have not been explicitly tasked with law enforcement, which is good because under the law that would be illegal. However, with the evolving dynamics in Los Angeles, I'm concerned that the Marines on the ground who are young could be put in compromising situations due to posyroatitis.
▶ 2:18:18So, if someone on the ground with DHS or other law enforcement asks a Marine to do something that they cannot do according to the law, how are they meant to address that? Well, ma'am, they have leaders with them. They have staff, non-commissioned officers and officers who will ensure that they don't violate the Posi Kumatus Act. Okay. And will you commit to making the standing rules for the use of force that they are operating under public? Yes, ma'am. The the ESR, the standing rules for the use of force are are currently public. Okay.
▶ 2:18:46We have been unable to get a public copy of them. So, I appreciate your help in making sure we can further publicize these these public uh rules. Yes, ma'am. So, look, I recognize that the Marine Corps is just following an order, and that's that's your job.
▶ 2:18:58But I find it unacceptable that the Pentagon took control of the National Guard and sent active duty Marines to Los Angeles when the relevant offices in California expressed that their deployment was unnecessary, including the Los Angeles Police Department who are not, you know, leftists who said that deploying Marines was unnecessary and could make it more difficult for them to do their job. The Pentagon and President Trump are escalating the situation drastically by unnecessarily deploying troops and causing more chaos.
▶ 2:19:26And frankly, our community, our National Guard, and our Marines deserve better. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentlemen yields back. Chair recognized gentleman from Florida, Mr. Jimenez. Thank you. And it's unfortunate that the uh the mayor of uh of Los Angeles and the governor of New York of uh California didn't do their job to protect their city and then and that your men and women uh were called upon to do that. Um Mr.
▶ 2:19:50Secretary, um, would it surprise you to say if I told you that the the Chinese hold a 250 to1 advantage in ship building right now, large ships over the United States? No, sir, it would not. And so, how long would it take for the for us to increase our capacity by 25,000%. I'm not sure you and I will be alive when we got to that. I I agree. Okay.
▶ 2:20:17And so do you do we have any idea of the plans for the PLAA Navy? I mean, how how many ships how big is their navy going to be? You know, so it's hard to say. Our ships are far superior to their ships. Um so you know that that's a game we've been playing for a long time. I think the Chinese strategy is to overwhelm with numbers. Um we are a much better force.
▶ 2:20:45we are much better trained sailors and marines. Uh so I think it's the what we pick and what we have. You could argue to some extent that the more they build given the speed at which technology and what we've seen in some of these other conflicts that could at some point become a disadvantage. However, we are too far behind. And I think there's a stat that I've used. The Chinese build more ships in a year than we have since World War II. Agree.
▶ 2:21:14I mean, we won World War II with what, a six to1 advantage on ship building, six uh aircraft carriers for every one that the Japanese built, and we won the Second World War with that. And so, they have a 250 ship advantage. Look, if I if I asked you three weeks ago, hey, um I want to destroy like one-third of the Soviet bomber force. And your answer probably would have been, uh, well, I think we need some long range bombers.
▶ 2:21:40We need some long range weapons, etc., etc., etc., because that's you know you had and yet what about a week ago a third of their bomber fleet was actually destroyed by drones and a different way to to um engage uh the the Soviet or not Soviets but the Russians. So I think the same hold true for for the Navy. Um, if I probably ask you right now, hey, I want to sink Chinese ships.
▶ 2:22:06The admiral admiral, I'm not going to put words in, but I think most you would say, well, we need more submarines, etc., etc., conventional weapons and all that, but I'd like for you to start thinking outside the box because for every ship that the that the Chinese built, I want a thousand different ways to sink it. Not one or two or five. I want a thousand different ways to sink it. And then good luck trying to stop a thousand different things that are going to sink you. And so, uh, Mr.
▶ 2:22:34Secretary, do you have a group of people that just completely think out of the box? uh or do you have a way to access group of people that are not stuck in paradigms and that completely think that you know you say I want to sink a ship and they were going to give you a thousand different ways to sink a ship that doesn't doesn't uh have a an aircraft
▶ 2:23:04carrier doesn't have a destroyer doesn't have a submarine a thou do you have access to that do you have or do you have a group like that uh congressman we are putting one together. I would say stay tuned. I have gotten a few briefs already uh that have been enlightening and I again I would tell you our capabilities are quite formidable.
▶ 2:23:26Um I think they should keep our allies I mean our adversaries at at pace but as I said they are catching us at an accelerating rate. We do need to pivot. We do have that access. We are putting that together and putting together carefully very good teams and that is why I'm saying the whole force posture that we're looking at the way we are going to fight is going to change and so I look forward to sharing that with you. I agree because I don't really don't want to fight their fight.
▶ 2:23:54I mean uh on a production scale they could they could outproduce us. So I want to fight them a different way. All right. And so you know I think the polls still had calvary back in 1939 right? they somehow thought it was a really good idea to face the Germans with calvary and I thought they got you know okay well it might have been great you know in the 18 19th century but calvary in the 20th century just didn't work and so maybe in the 21st century our force structure their force structure may not be the way that uh you know the future of warfare is coming and I I
▶ 2:24:24can see that you know coming pretty quickly and we as a nation need to pivot to you know to that to new way and I hope that you'd get more than 2% uh into automated systems uh that you have right now in the budget. And my time's up and I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Caroline recognizes the gentle lady from New Hampshire, Miss Goodlander. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Uh Mr.
▶ 2:24:49Secretary, I want to begin with you and thank you for visiting the Portsmith Naval Shipyard uh right at the beginning of your tenure. uh you were there back in April and I was very encouraged to hear from you and I I appreciate you too, Admiral, prioritizing what we need to do for our public shipyards.
▶ 2:25:07The Portsmith Naval Shipyard is America's oldest public shipyard and the men and women who work there have really hard and important jobs and I appreciate what you've said about the need to support our shipyard workers. We also need to hire more shipyard workers as you've both testified. And at the Portsouth Naval Shipyard, we've got to hire 550 workers a year. I was encouraged, Mr.
▶ 2:25:31Secretary, that when you visited back in April, you announced that 150 personnel have received initial job offers. Um, I wanted to ask you, as far as we know, no one has actually been hired since then, and we want to support you in clearing the way uh of any red tape or bureaucratic process that is preventing shipyard workers from being hired.
▶ 2:25:55So, could you could you give us a status I'll have to take that one for the record and come back to you, Congresswoman. I don't have those numbers with me right now. Well, would very much appreciate an update. um on on the status and we'll submit questions that go directly to any bureaucratic hurdles that you're facing uh at OM or OPM. You know, I also just want to point out what you've said about supporting our workers is really important.
▶ 2:26:25they are facing a real attack uh because of the president's executive order that seeks to really strip away fundamental rights of our of our unionized shipyard workers and federal employees across the board.
▶ 2:26:38Um, one of my real concerns about uh, the GOP budget bill is the elimination of the federal employee retirement system, the FUR's annuity supplement, which is really so critical to helping federal employees who retire before the age of the age of 62. It's bad policy and it's hurting our shipyard workers uh, and really federal workers across the board. And I want to just point that out. Um, Mr.
▶ 2:27:08Secretary, I want to thank you for what you've committed to doing with respect to the audit. This is incredibly important. I will submit questions to you about what specific barriers you face um in achieving a clean audit, which is uh so essential to public trust and and to any functioning organization. Uh, and I also want to thank you for your commitment to the right to repair and for your cander in assessing the situation as it is.
▶ 2:27:36Uh, that this is just simply nonsense and an outrage that we can't fix our own equipment. And I look forward to hearing what steps you're concretely taking to ensure um that we fix the way that we do contracts and we we uh empower the Navy to repair its own and maintain its own equipment. General, I want to pick up on on my colleagues line of questioning um and ask you uh and Mr.
▶ 2:28:03Chairman, I'd like to submit to the record an article from the Associated Press yesterday entitled Pentagon draws up rules on possible use of force by Marines deployed to LA protests. Um without objection, so ordered. Thank you, General. Can you please clarify what rules the president's executive order do not specify what rules apply to any Marines who have been deployed to Los Angeles or or who will be deployed domestically in the future. What rules apply and when were those rules written?
▶ 2:28:32Because according to this article, quote, the Pentagon was scrambling just this week on Monday to establish rules to guide US Marines who could be faced with the rare and difficult prospect of using force against citizens on American soil. Man, we're using the standing rules for the use of force or SSRF. Uh these rules emphasize deescalation, use of non-lethal force, and the inherent right of self-defense for Marines and others. So, ESRF, standing rules for the use of force.
▶ 2:29:02And General, you you commit to providing this committee with a complete copy of the rules that are being distributed right now? Yes, ma'am. And when were those rules developed? Were they revised at all? I don't believe they were revised, ma'am. So, it's always been clear from your perspective what rules apply and it's it's the rules you just mentioned. Yes, ma'am. These are rules that we would use in in any number of situations. Uh, Marines have training in crowd control and they they have these rules uh for embassy reinforcement.
▶ 2:29:31They have these rules for non-lethal situations and they're trained to them. Thank you, General. And the four days of training, who who is responsible for this training and where is it being conducted? Uh, ma'am, I am responsible for it and the local commanders are responsible for it. It's being conducted at home station. Gentlely times expired. Chair and I recognize a gentle lady from South Carolina, Miss Mason. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for appearing before us today.
▶ 2:29:56South Carolina's low country has a long history as a maritime hub and commercial shipping channel, and it continues to play a critical role in sustaining our Navy's mission, supporting ship repair, logistics, and a skilled maritime workforce. Bufort County is home to Paris Island and the Marine Corps Air Station Bufort. We're enormously proud that we make Marines. For more than a century, Paris Island has been making Marines.
▶ 2:30:19At MCCAST Bufort, aviators gain the skills and resilience necessary to operate in the most challenging contested environments across the globe while maintaining a high state of readiness to deploy and support a Marine Corps operations worldwide. Today, I look forward to discussing how we can build upon this strong foundation with sustained investment in infrastructure, expanded training capacities, and integration of cutting edge technologies. The Low Country has the potential to play an even greater role in our national defense. So, General Smith, I have a few questions for you.
▶ 2:30:49I'll start with you. This morning, the Marine Corps is undergoing one of the most significant transformations in its history. As we modernize for the future of conflict, we must ensure the core's training continues to produce the most lethal force in the world. So, General Smith, are the key tenants of force design reshaping the Marine Corps view on the recruit training taking place at Paris Island? Yes, ma'am. Our recruit training hasn't changed. And uh what role will basic training play in building Marines capable of contested environment operations?
▶ 2:31:18Ma'am, basic training is designed to produce a basically trained Marine who will then go on to his or her specialty. So again, our basic training, even though we're doing force design, our basic training remains unchanged. It is the standard by which we train a marine. And are we using Paris Island currently to train for advanced small unit amphibious tactics? Ma'am, we are not. Okay. Are there any plans to uh is this a feasible location, I guess, for this kind of training? Would it be a feasible location?
▶ 2:31:46Ma'am, I think it would be uh it would be a matter of capacity moving from Camp Learn uh North Carolina, which is where our most of our assets reside, most of our infantry marines reside. Okay. And as the Marine Corps considers manned unmanned teameming, are there any plans to conduct any of this kind of training at MCCAST Buford?
▶ 2:32:06Um, ma'am, there there is a little bit of of of uh discussion about using unmanned systems at Buford, some of our bigwing drones, our MQ9s, etc. So, we will continue to evaluate whether it is feasible to support that at MCCAST Buford. What would you need to be supported there? We would frankly need infrastructure. We'd need base housing. We would need the ability for our hangers to house multiple types of aircraft, etc. I was going to ask, do they have enough hangers there? Hangar space? No ma'am, they do.
▶ 2:32:36Not yet. They do not. Okay. Um, how are how is the Marine Corps leveraging virtual training to prepare aviators for real world conditions? Uh, ma'am, I just was down at Pensacola. In fact, you know, we are leveraging it such that an individual student can go into a a use goggles uh and use a virtual T38 and train themselves.
▶ 2:33:01Basically, they they've got training, but they can repeat and they can practice as many times as they want um to accelerate their syllabus. And once you're trained and you pass the syllabus, then you move on. And we've we've seen that it's a it is cutting through it is cutting down on the glut and the backlog of So you see an advantage to using the technology and training Marines. Yes, ma'am. We're using board. We're using that in our ACV or amphibious combat vehicle.
▶ 2:33:28We're using that at flight school and that is that is naval aviation. I've crashed a few planes on one of those simulators. It's not it's not easy, man. It's very realistic. Yeah. Um but back to a question about infrastructure investments in MCCast Bufort. Um, what infrastructure investments is the Marine Corps prioritizing to ensure MCAST beer can continue to fulfill its mission? Ma'am, frankly, what we need is hanger space and we need our maintenance facilities. That is the key.
▶ 2:33:57If it's going to if it's going to house Marine Corps aircraft, we have to have hanger space to protect those aircraft from storms and we have to have maintenance space. Do you know roughly the amount of invest investment or money that's needed to continue the mission? Ma'am, I don't. I'll have to get that and take it for the record. I would love to. I've been down there and I I' I've been in some of the hangers and I've seen it multiple times. So, I'd be would love that information if your office can provide that to us. Um, with that, Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back and thank you very much, General. Thank you, ma'am. Gentle lady yields back here.
▶ 2:34:26And I recognize a gentleman from California, Mr. Cisneros. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here today. Um, Secretary Fallon John Paul Jones, the father of the Navy, wrote, "Is by no means enough that the officer of the Navy should be a capable mariner. He must be of that course, but also a great deal more.
▶ 2:34:47He should also be as well a gentleman of liberal education, refined manners, uh, punctuous courtesy, and the nicest sense of personal honor." Uh, by liberal education, you know, he means a sense, right? Literature, sciences, mathematics. Um it's even inscribed on the walls at the Naval Academy. But yet the Navy's removed 400 books from the Naval Academy.
▶ 2:35:09They've um stopped, you know, groups of students uh that would come together to study for each other that focused on engineering and other things. Um how are we living up to this model here? If we're removing books, you do we not want our officers to be well Congressman, thank you for the uh question. So currently there is a panel that OSD has convened that accessing books across all military installations.
▶ 2:35:39Um therefore I I defer on this topic to them. Um currently in the in the uh at the naval academy I think and at two other NOVA postgraduate and the war college I think we're talking about low double digit books numbers. So I think you're four. Well, 400 seems like a pretty significant number from the Naval Academy. I mean, I I believe that that that number is no longer accurate. And that was a media invented number.
▶ 2:36:07So we're talking doubled like no more than 99 books. I'm talking like 15 to 20. Is that right, Admiral? 15 to 20. 21. 21 at the Naval Academy. All right. Can we see that list if I could? Panel is working on it. So as soon as we get that study, I'll be happy to share that with you. All right. I'd like to see that book. All right. Or that list. Um Admiral Kilby. Um does the Navy need a next generation fighter? In my opinion, we do. All right.
▶ 2:36:36Uh the administration's proposing gutting the next generation fighter and that was something that just kind of came out pretty recently as in the last couple days uh from their proposed budget. Um and it's a program that Ily heard from uniform officials that they need. Um so how do you how do you reconcile this? How are you moving forward to kind of ensure that we are gonna have the the research uh funds in order to ensure that we can move forward with a next generation fighter?
▶ 2:37:08So thank you for that congressman. Look, I think as it comes to nextG fighters, as I said before, we're looking at the full composition of the airwing of the future and and so we have to focus on the capabilities and technologies for years to come that are going to win and that includes manned and unmanned platforms that we have to look at. I do not have a lot of confidence. All of our programs are in trouble. We have number of companies that are not performing.
▶ 2:37:37We've got to get those done. So I think looking at this system sixgen is important and I know it's important to the admiral and he should always give you his best military advice. Uh I think we're looking at the whole panacea of what we've got and then how we can what makes the most sense to use in the future. And so I think we have to get more confidence in the base.
▶ 2:38:01This is a system that, you know, as I said in my opening statement about readiness, readiness means like ready like today and then in the future and how is that future changing and how do we think about that? And so that's we're looking at it, evaluating it and trying to make sure that we're not back here in two years saying we told you it was going to cost X, it's actually going to be X plus 50, and by the way, it's going to be late. So that's really what we're trying to do.
▶ 2:38:29No, look, I I think the Navy uh has um bigger challenge than anybody else with the high expensive cost of the items, right? Everything from ships to fighters uh to the to the missiles and everything that they need, the weapons. Um and trying to balance that all is is definitely a challenge. Um but we need to ensure right that we continue to move forward as you said, right, readiness today, but also to develop for the future. And that is something um that I am willing to work with you there.
▶ 2:38:59Um whatever we can do to help support that mission, right? We want to ensure that we can do the fight today but also prepare for the for the future. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair recognizes a gentleman from Texas, Mr. Latrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, gentlemen. The Department of the Navy is currently spending tens of millions of taxpayer dollars per year to develop customuilt software on top of proprietary low code platforms for its electronic procurement systems or EPS.
▶ 2:39:27However, in 2024, NAVO war technical review of EPS cited delays platform immaturity, outdated architecture, and limited functionality after a decade of the program's development. Secretary Finland, given the administration's focus on integrating commercial solutions to achieve greater efficiency, why or why is the department not or is it competing this program for a more innovative, scalable, and costefficient off-the-shelf solution?
▶ 2:39:56Uh we are reviewing all of our IT systems and all of our systems. Uh and we've canceled some already. So, Navy HR, which had a bunch of redundancy that was not working and we had a contractor who could not fulfill the obligation. So, I don't have that specific one, Congressman. I'll come back to you on it. But all of them are being reviewed. All of those contracts are being reviewed to remove redundancies and and if they're not working, we're going to get rid of them.
▶ 2:40:24I can tell you as someone who I get a p for me just to send a three sentence email from my office takes almost like a minute. That's how bad the systems are. That's just in the Pentagon. So we need to update our systems. We need to analyze all of these that is going on and we're working very hard on it. But I don't have an answer for you on that specific. Yes sir. I redundancy.
▶ 2:40:48I mean, it's almost you can't even say the word government without having the word redundancy built in built in on top of it. Um, are you are you looking at both private and government? I Okay, as a former military man, I know that, hey, we want to do everything ourselves, but there comes a point in time where we might need to lean into the commercial space in order to help us do that. We should get out of the IT development business. We're not good at it.
▶ 2:41:20And um General Smith, you you made a extremely valid point earlier when you were talking about drone technology and how your Marines are developing their own drones because there's no more efficient and effective killer than the ones that are being shot at. And we are are are amazing at what we do. And uh Mr. Admiral Kilby, you got naval special warfare inside of you doing the exact same thing. And and the issue is we have outside entities trying to come into our organization to help.
▶ 2:41:47and we have an inside organization trying to get permissions to do what we do best. Um the chairman and the ranking member are doing the speed act that's trying to clear clear the muddy water. I think the point that I'm trying to make is you've heard the leadership they're leaning on you for those ideas because we're on this side more or less looking in to the operators. Okay? Don't hesitate to ask and tell us what you need. Okay?
▶ 2:42:15because we're eyes wide open and the ears as with health and wellness inside our communities. Um, you listed off your three priorities. Both of you did. And I don't necessarily f agree with the order because I would put my sailors up top and I would put my Marines up top be the first words out of my mouth. And I know we're focused in on that. And General Smith, I've got a fine young Marine that works in my office and he speaks very highly of you and that and that says a lot.
▶ 2:42:44And he says you're focusing in on your troops, which is amazing. As we move forward, the transition period from when an active service member jumps off that bullet train into the civilian space and becomes a veteran is unforgiving. There's really nothing on the outside to catch us. Mr. Magcguire, can you lean to the right just a little bit, please? Thank you so much. There's really nothing on the outside to catch us when we leave.
▶ 2:43:10That bullet train continues down the track and everybody that someone that's looking forward, front sight focus, and everybody else is tucking and rolling. Here you go. And then the VA does their absolute best to receive us. I think there's a breakdown in communication from active duty and the hot handoff to the VA.
▶ 2:43:28And I'm and I'm most I'm probably pretty certain that you guys are concentrating on that, but we need to concentrate a lot harder because my number one issue as a member of Congress is to get our veteran suicide rate from over 6,000 a year down to zero. Okay? But I need your help. Fair enough. Absolutely, sir. Thank you, sir. Concur. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from California, Mr. Carbajal.
▶ 2:43:59Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses here today. General Smith, it's good to see you. As a member of the Joint Chiefs, you serve as a military adviser to the Secretary of Defense and the President. Is that correct? That is correct, sir. Were you involved in the decision to mo mobilize 700 Marines to the streets of Los Angeles? Mr. Secretary or or Congressman, I was not involved in the decision to mobilize, but I was involved in the decision of who to mobilize.
▶ 2:44:29Thank you. Were these Marines that were deployed adequately adequately trained to deal with these domestic events? They have been trained before they deployed. Yes, sir. How long were they trained for? They were trained for multiple hours. multiple hours hours. Give me days. Um, well, I would say over the course of a couple of days, they received multiple hours worth of training. Is that adequate training? That is, sir.
▶ 2:44:56Do you think these Marines time could be better spent back in 29 Palms continuing to train and carry out their mission? Well, sir, I'm compliant with all lawful guidance, so I won't get into, you know, what they should or shouldn't be doing, but they we were given lawful guidance to deploy that battalion. Um, and that battalion is deployed. Have there been discussions about mobilizing additional Marines to LA or other places throughout the country? No, sir, not to my knowledge. Thank you.
▶ 2:45:26If domestic mobilizations continue, do you think this will erode public trust in the reputation of the Marine Corps? Sir, I think the Marines are going to conduct themselves with the same dignity and professionalism that they always conduct themselves with, and they will continue to bring credit to the Marine Corps regardless of the mission they're Can you elaborate as to what they can do and cannot do as Marines on domestic So, I can sir,
▶ 2:45:56um they are underneath uh they're supporting Northcom. their mission as directed by uh the sect directed Northcom to assume command uh in order to protect federal property and federal personnel. That is their mission, sir. Protect federal property and federal personnel. And in doing so, for example, can they uh fire warning shots? No, sir. We do not fire warning shots. Thank you.
▶ 2:46:25Secretary Failen, if Congress gave the Marine Corps, let's say, a check for $134 million, would you spend what would you spend this on? And could that be used to increase the quality of life for our Marines or help deliver capabilities to the war fighter? Uh, thank you for the question, Congressman. We can use all the funds that you can give us. So you could use the funds to do so many important things.
▶ 2:46:56As I said, we have we have we have a mission and our mission is to uh be prepared to fight and do as the president and secretary of defense uh order us to do. Uh and that is what we're doing. And so yeah, we we need capital in order to support our programs. Yes. Uh General Smith, same question to you. What could you do with $134 million as in order of your priorities? Well, I would spend it on training and on barracks.
▶ 2:47:27Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognizes a gentle lady from Virginia, Miss Kiggins. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much for our panelists for being here. I have the privilege of representing a big Navy district down in Hampton Roads, Virginia, and wanted to thank you all for continuing to prioritize the quality of life, quality of service measures that we spent so much time on last Congress. That continues to be a priority of mine as well.
▶ 2:47:51So many of my colleagues have talked about ship building and ship repair uh during this session and technology integration, use of unmanned and drones. So, thank you for keeping that also on the top of your list of things to do. I wanted to take a few minutes though and talk about the importance of the East Coast Navy.
▶ 2:48:07And we see when we turn on the news and we we for example are watching our F-18s drop bombs on the Houthis in Yemen or there's something that arises in the world and and we frequently send our aircraft carriers and our battle groups and our airwings from the east coast and I know we recently welcomed Tom the Truman and uh and before that the Eisenhower battle groups and a lot of activity between what's happening in the Baltic Sea with Russians and their uh their submarines to what's continuing to happened in
▶ 2:48:37the Middle East and the Red Sea in Israel. So, we can't understate the importance of the East Coast and I represent the East Coast master jet base which is woefully underappreciated, woefully not taken care of. So, I just wanted to hear from you all because you all are all all the leadership of our naval services. Admiral Kilby, can you please tell me what you think is the importance of the East Coast Navy and projecting American strength and deterrence? Uh, Rep. Kiggins, thanks for that question. a quick sound bite on on Truman.
▶ 2:49:08You know, she defended herself or other ships or another country 160 times on her deployment. She conducted 670 strikes from the air or from the sea into Yemen and she constru conducted the biggest strike in the history of the world from a single aircraft carrier into Somalia. Eight named operations, three different combatant commanders.
▶ 2:49:34So I double down on what your statement is and concur and master jetbased uh Oceanana is a big portion of that in addition to all the infrastructure at Hampton Roads which is really all services but primarily Navy between the Navy base and Oceanana. Our aircraft carriers just to echo that continue to be tip of the spear. We can get America's might there in a matter of days. There's nothing that can replace that. And do you think that the East Coast master jet base then needs F-35s and needs our next generation of strike fight?
▶ 2:50:04I I think it needs to keep up with the Navy just like the West Coast in all respects and I think it needs to be maintained. So there's a infrastructure thing that the secretary and I are after to include hangers and all runways and peers and all those things. And I and I and I when I was a deputy commander of fleet forces, I went to master jet base ocean and concur wholeheartedly with what you're saying.
▶ 2:50:28So can I get your commitment in the strategic layown planning that will be happening very soon that that will be prioritized our east coast master jet base. I know the Marines are being taken care of. They have I believe four F-35 squadrons. The Navy has zero right now. We have zero commitment from the Navy saying that they will get F-35s and will get next generation strike fighters and it's becoming extremely frustrating. I I commit to you to look at that and continue to work for that end state, ma'am.
▶ 2:50:53And then I also wanted to echo what my colleague had previously said to open the news the other day and see that the Navy was we had $500 million that was being taken away from us from the Department of Defense to be committed to F-47s that the Air Force had when Congress and Armed Services Committee had specifically allocated that money for next generation strike fighters. We need that money for a lot of reasons.
▶ 2:51:17China is already they are already testing and flying J50s and J36 fighters which is their sixth generation fighter. The Navy to be competitive with that has got to make that investment. I know the Air Force has got a lot of needs as well but Secretary Failen can you please one more time address what you are doing to push back on that department of defense statement that they made that said they weren't going to take away the Congress appropriated money and give it to the Air Force.
▶ 2:51:45Uh thank you congressman for the question. Uh look as as I said uh we we continue to look at the airwing of the future and and the capabilities of sixgen and what that means. It's part of the whole force posture we're looking at between manned and unmanned and those different uh uh platforms and what makes the most sense.
▶ 2:52:07So, I look forward to working with you as we develop those uh those plans and and we cannot do the missions that we just previously talked about that the Truman has just accomplished in the Red Sea without that next generation strike fighter money allocated. So, please prioritize that. On top of that, and in closing, just wanted to put in my two cents about naval aviation training. We need T45 replacements. That needs to be added to the top of the priority list. We cannot take between three and four years to train naval aviators and Marine Corps aviators.
▶ 2:52:37It's taking too long and we need that Navy commitment. Thank you so much. And I yield back. Gentle lady yields back. Chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Maryland, Miss Elf. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, thank you, gentlemen, for being here. I want to build on some of the questions my colleagues started regarding preparing for the future of warfare. Uh, representing Maryland.
▶ 2:52:55I I recently visit visited Naval Air Station Pax River and saw some really impressive and critical work being done there, including the Anakoke Chamber um which is essential for training for for warfare of the future and it's in such high demand that even when it runs 24 hours a day, there's still a five to six year backlog on that training. So, Admiral, can you speak to the Navy's priority list in terms of getting a second such chamber? Um, I cannot, but I will take that question for the record and come back to you, ma'am. Okay.
▶ 2:53:24Do you agree it's it's essential for war fighting? I do, but I just don't have the specifics. I'll get them. Understood. Thank you. I'd like to move on to energy. And Mr. Secretary, I was really glad to hear that readiness is your priority. Um, last week this committee was informed that energy resilience is military readiness. And representing the United States Naval Academy, I would suggest that your installations between the Marine Corps and the Navy are perhaps most uh illpositioned to bear the impacts of sea level rise and hurricanes and extreme weather.
▶ 2:53:50So can you speak to you you've made some great progress particularly in micro grid programs uh at at Marine Corps Air Station Myiramar um anybody for for anybody here how are Navy and Marine Corps applying the lessons from that base on micro grids but also thinking about SMRs which is a particular priority for this committee to address our energy vulnerabilities for anybody. Well, ma'am, I I'll take it off.
▶ 2:54:19Uh, you know, the micro grids are operationally viable to us. We use them here in the in the continental United States, for example, as you know, at Myiramar, but they're operationally Our goal is to be able to produce our own energy when forward deployed to need less to be able to operate in a contested environment while producing our own energy using solar panels, etc.
▶ 2:54:44to be able to power radios because sometimes just the radio having a battery is enough to get the job done. So, we're committed to continuing to do that for tactical reasons, not not necessarily environmental reasons, but for tactical reasons. I totally agree and all all of the above approach to energy generation, resilience, storage is incredibly important for infrastructure and for for readiness. Mr. Mr.
▶ 2:55:06Secretary is also really grateful to hear you you admit that we have historically everybody underinvested in infrastructure and I would add personnel and training to the definition of infrastructure. Uh according to the GIO 64% of executive officers found it difficult to conduct sailor maintenance due to manning shortfalls and 75% find it difficult for sailor to complete repairs. The manning shortfalls are credited to a lack of requisite training and experience to fill these positions.
▶ 2:55:33And I also understand that Navy ships lack onboard parts and equipment to make necessary repairs while they're deployed. And I' I'd add on to that that we're currently in an uncontested environment. So all of those issues just expound when we move to a contested. What specific steps are we being are we taking to mitigate this direct link between manpower deficits and material readiness problems in the fleet? And how are we addressing the lack of prepositioned parts on board ships? Can I take that, Representative Elther? Um, I I'd agree with you.
▶ 2:56:03I I do think there's a component that we're addressing through recruiting and training and getting sailors to ships at the apprentice level, which includes those logisticians that will handle those parts. There's also a commitment from me to uh fund our repair parts to where they need to be. And thirdly, I think there's an opportunity to um really pressurize our jumping into this additive manufacturing space a little bit more aggressively than we have.
▶ 2:56:29And I'm working on that with the chief of the supply corps and have just asked each uh community leader to give me their top 10 degraders to see if we can't uh make that, you know, equal with the first choice instead of the last choice. So, we have we have work to do here. I I love that approach. I look forward to seeing that uh in in the the full budget whenever we do get it. And I think this is a good opportunity to double down on the chairman's comments about this being the latest we've ever received. We still don't have a budget.
▶ 2:56:57So, it's difficult for us to do our constitutionally mandated job of oversight in this environment. And Admiral, I couldn't agree with you more. This is a moment in time where we have a bipartisan once in a generation commitment to ship building. Yet, I'm not seeing that reflected in the president's skinny budget. And this is the the last time you'll be in front of this committee this year. So, can anybody speak to the fact that we are roughly 46% down in funding for ship building in the skinny budget versus FY25?
▶ 2:57:26That seems like a real mismatch in our stated priorities. I think look, as I as I said uh earlier, I um we continue to work with OSD and OM on the budget and through the numbers. Uh and I think that um we are pushing very hard and I believe it will show a commitment to ship building and a signal to the industry that we are taking it seriously.
▶ 2:57:55I look forward to that full budget. Thank you. As I have mentioned earlier, I know it's not your fault and I've been trying to send a signal to OM to get us a budget. Uh, and I I'm very frustrated by the situation we're in, but I know where the problems stemming from. Uh, gentleman from Guam's recognized, Mr. Mland. Chairman, thank you for convening this uh, hearing today with our distinguished witnesses.
▶ 2:58:23Uh, Secretary Failen, thank you for making the long trip to Guam. uh your your visit to the military housing was I'm very pleased that you did that and you were able to condemn the some of the barracks there for because of health and safety reasons and you ordered uh camp blas to be open for our sailors and marines um on Anderson Air Force Base Guam. Thank thank you very much.
▶ 2:58:48And can you provide uh Secretary Failen um this committee some highlights of what you saw during that inspection? Yes. Uh thank you for the thank you for the question. So I I was um very upset because when I was driving by I saw a very pristine golf course and then I saw a set of buildings that I thought should have been condemned. And when I found out that there were sailors and marines in it I was apoplelectic.
▶ 2:59:16I then went in and visited three different uh barracks or I mean rooms. One that had black mold all over the wall. Uh another one where uh there's no air conditioning whatsoever. In fact, in all three rooms, uh it was it was deplorable just to be perfectly honest. Um and I was frustrated because we did have camp law done. I was told that it was going to take four or five months for that to get approved.
▶ 2:59:44I had walked the new barracks and had been in them. The air conditionings were working. Everything was working. And I basically said they need to get into that building and they need to get into it. You got five or seven days and if that doesn't happen, whoever's holding up that decision should go move into the barracks where those guys are staying on the till they're prepared to make that decision. Now, what I did see in Guam is some very also impressive things that we're doing uh in general uh there.
▶ 3:00:12Um so it is a critical uh uh station for us um uh from for for a couple of different things that we do. Um and um uh you know I saw really nice brand new facilities that have built that have been built um and um you know the training that is going on there and the sorties that are going on are pretty you know it's it's a busy place I guess is what I would say. Uh thank you Mr.
▶ 3:00:41Secretary, and because of your efforts and your great concern for our troops there, uh, Vice Admiral Gray, uh, did direct comprehensive study of all Navy and Marine Corps, uh, facilities on Guam. Can you provide us with any updates on any of the inspection for that? I'm still awaiting the final report, but did you have those numbers? Yeah, the numbers are relatively small. 5% of the barracks that were expected fell in that condition and we're taking action to move sailors out of that.
▶ 3:01:11Overall, the Navy's made progress in barracks. We went from 24% poor to 21%. That doesn't mean where we need to be. We need to continue after we have zero uh percent of our barracks in poor condition. But um we are we are uh increasing our focus on this area and taking action as the secretary has directed. Thank you. And anything we can do in Congress, that's what we're here for. Please let us know.
▶ 3:01:38Uh in addition to that, um Secretary, we talked about unaccompanied housing. How's the scrutiny for family housing on Guam? Is are we doing the same level of Uh I don't know the answer to that question, Congressman. I will double check it and see. Um I did visit some of the different unaccompanied housing.
▶ 3:02:02um there and um uh I I think that all of the old facilities there are probably not in great shape uh if I'm being perfectly honest and so I think we need to upgrade it um uh in general. Thank you. And I did have the opportunity to speak with General Alvin on the Air Force or the problems uh there as well.
▶ 3:02:24And so we we asked him a question about uh having looking at this overall build and maintain for privatization for unaccompanied and family housing as well. Uh do you foresee that as a possible solution for this? It might be. Congressman, to be honest, I I I I've looked at privatized housing. In some areas, it seems to work exceptionally well and in some areas very poorly. And I'm trying to understand, is that just the operator? Is it the contract?
▶ 3:02:54What is it that's causing that? And I think the way we incent uh private uh companies to manage these facilities is still a little confusing to me. I'm not real sure necessarily what they're doing. So, I am going to be going uh I think our two best ones are in San Diego and Virginia. Yes, sir. and I'm going to go visit those and see what it is those companies are doing and why that's working there and trying to understand why it's not working the other. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 3:03:24Secretary. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Y gentleman yields back here and I recognize gentleman from New York, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And before I uh welcome our witnesses, I just want to commend you, Mr. Chair, and ranking member on the speed act on the record. Uh this is a hugely important bill and really appreciate all the work and the bipartisan effort on that. Um and I'm sure hopefully that results in addressing a lot of things that that we've been consistently and you all have been consistently talking about about fixing our acquisition system.
▶ 3:03:54Um I was going to use my minute to to talk Army Navy and talk some trash about uh my my team hopefully be besting your all's team next year. Uh but I will not do that. And the main reason I'm not going to do it is I I was really concerned about something that happened yesterday.
▶ 3:04:12Um didn't directly affect your service, but I think it's important to speak about um which is what I believe at least in my 43 years uh an increasing level of politicization of the force that I served in that that you know both you general and admiral have bravely and heroically served in for multiple decades. Um so I just wanted to ask you a few questions about that. Um, I think you've both attended multiple States of the Union at this point. Is that right? I've only attended one.
▶ 3:04:43Thank you, Admiral. Yes, sir. I've attended a couple. And I didn't watch every minute of it, but my sense is that each of the service chiefs rightly sit there maintaining the a-political nature of our military, a bedrock principle that I certainly learned as a young officer.
▶ 3:04:59Is it true that you know that's how you all approach that as as the leaders of our military that you're there out of you know in your role but that you don't um applaud any particular political statement uh that is what I tried to do general. Yes sir. That's correct.
▶ 3:05:18What what is the current guidance you're giving to each of your services and training um given in both parties in increased politicization of our military forces especially for junior uh uh marines and sailors that are trying to figure out how to get this right. Admiral let me start. We are trying in the Navy to instill in a world where social media is so prevalent your responsibility as a uniform member of our armed services to be apolitical.
▶ 3:05:49When you assume that responsibility through that oath with that comes great responsibility to protect exactly what you're uh you are aligning to. Now, we have had to uh put out some social media guidance so people understand that and they understand that when they show up in uniform, they're representing their service, not just their individual um being. Thank you, Admiral. And I know, you know, social media is one thing.
▶ 3:06:19Visits by elected officials who by federal rules are also technically candidates having declared their candidacy for for re-election or at least filed campaigns for for reelection. I think those those sort of events present an even more complicated thing and we saw this play out yesterday at Fort Bragg, uh, for example.
▶ 3:06:37Um, what guidance do you give for your Marines and sailors that are attending what's supposed to be an official event, but if it becomes an increasingly political How, general, what training and guidance are you putting out about that? Because I'm concerned we're putting our our folks in a tough position right now. Well, what I would say, Congressman, is is an elected official who's coming to give a speech about the military, that's fine. Military can attend.
▶ 3:07:07Uh they can't participate in the dialogue. Yeah. I'm saying when it becomes when that official visit becomes overtly political, whether that's wearing a campaign hat, for example, or using in in my view anyway, overt political rhetoric. And uh how would you what guidance or or training are you giving to your Marines about that? Well, we don't we don't give Marines any training on on that?
▶ 3:07:31Uh they they don't participate well, they participate in the political process at the ballot box, but they don't participate in the political dialogue. I I do think it's important given what happened yesterday for both of you to to look at that. I think some of those uh army soldiers were put in a really tough position. I don't put I don't blame that on them.
▶ 3:07:50I don't blame it on the the the leaders on the ground there, but I I think we're crossing lines every day that I'm concerned about and would ask each of you to think about uh what do we need additional guidance or training there. I don't have the answers yet, but I I don't want to put our brave young men and women in in a tough spot where they might think they're going to an official event, but all of a sudden it feels an awful lot like a campaign rally.
▶ 3:08:15And I say that having watched the commander-in-chief wear a MAGA hat at West Point graduation, which to me was unacceptable political politicization of a day that should be about celebrating those 1,02 brave young men and women who graduated that day. So, uh, thank you, Mr. Chair, and yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Higgins. Yes, Mr. Chairman, making America great again. one hearing at a time.
▶ 3:08:45Welcome gentlemen to testify before us. Um, as point of personal privilege as a former enlisted soldier, I was it was uplifting to hear how you responded regarding the the housing requirements and the challenges we face in Guam. and I asked to put on your your radar that that that my office certainly stands in support of any endeavor uh that you pursue.
▶ 3:09:15Make sure our our soldiers, sailors, marines have a decent place to lay their head as much as possible. Sometimes that's no place to lay your head. You know, speaking as a soldier, you're glad to find a decent tree somewhere. But when it when you when you house on base, it should be it should be a a place of of uh restoration of the of the body and the soul. So, thank you for your endeavor there.
▶ 3:09:43I ask you to to consider the YRBM um as a as a very effective uh method that we could use for forward deployment and and and completely appropriate uh for our war fighters. Regarding NAVC, Mr. secretary.
▶ 3:10:05I I had this my ninth year serving we the people in this uh bizarre realm of Washington DC and I've learned a lot about ship building. You I was a police officer prior to Congress so I don't know anything about ship building really but it's been a very steep learning curve and I've been hard at it and and what I have learned is that there's some issues with NAVC.
▶ 3:10:31Let me just leave it at that and I I I encourage you to address it a aggressively. Uh many of the ship builders that I serve have just has seem to have constant challenges with communications and design change and delays and uh and contractual disputes. It's unnecessary difficulties and I'm uplifted to hear that you plan to address that.
▶ 3:11:00regarding platform support vessels, Mr. Secretary, I have a question for you The the Navy faces significant logistics challenges in Indo-Pacific region and and the fleet readiness offices has identified the need for and approved the use of at least a dozen or so at sea resupply ships to enable refuel and rearming and resupply of naval assets both a float and
▶ 3:11:30onshore in contested environments and theaters of engagement via shipto- ship operation. operations and ship to port operations. So, I understand that the Navy's fleet readiness office has identified commercially available platform supply vessels or PSVS as a potential solution here.
▶ 3:11:49Uh will you speak to that versus the time and expense of building vessels um as brand new admir secretary general? Yeah, I'll start. Um we are focused on one January 2027.
▶ 3:12:06I think there's an opportunity to use some vessels that exist today not just for resupply and supply but also for other things counter C5 ISRT and others as we transition to this hybrid fleet. So I think it's an and answer. I don't think it's an or answer. And I look forward to working with you sir. Yes sir. Excellent. My dad was a Navy guy, so I learned to speak the language. By the way, Admiral, I can follow you, General.
▶ 3:12:37Sir, I think anytime we can use a commercially available vessel that's already extant, we should. It It may not suit all of our needs, but if it meets 80% of our needs, then we got to call that good enough and move on. So, I'm I'm a big fan of using things that are extant now because it it reduces the time burden, and time is the one thing in combat that you can't buy back. Well, roger that, Mr. Secretary. As I said, all options are on the table and that's one we have to definitely consider.
▶ 3:13:04I mean, it's as I said, there's the short term and long term and we've got a that that is a big problem and as they Navy likes to call the Indopacific, we've got the tyranny of distance. So, we need ships and if and if that's the right answer, what we're going to do. So, we've we've covered Thank you, Mr. Secretary. We've covered like two essential topics here as it relates to readiness and and deployment and ship building.
▶ 3:13:31That's the Y RBM as a solution for birthing and platform support vessels uh reconfiguration for u to serve our purposes as we look at the budget. I look forward to discussing that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield. Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Sorenson. Thank you to our chairman and our ranking member. Uh good afternoon now to our uh witnesses, Secretary Failen. Uh Admiral Kilby and General Smith.
▶ 3:14:01Thank you for your many years and your dedication to our great nation. I proudly represent the heart of Illinois, home of the 182nd Airlift Wing in Poria. They are the experts on board C130s which can do everything from airdropping our troops into hostile areas, landing on nearly non-existent runways to weather reconnaissance. Um, but I must share a story.
▶ 3:14:26My my grandpa Sorenson um proudly served as a photographer in the United States Navy during World War II um to support air missions. Um there are nine framed photographs framed on the wall above my desk on Capitol Hill. You know, I know he would have been proud of me um having learned the reasons from him why we support those who serve us today.
▶ 3:14:51Today, the Navy Reserve flies the aging C130T Hercules model as the Navy's only tactical medium intrathe airlift capability. Secretary Failen, can you speak to the importance of the Navy Reserve C130s and why we must capitalize to the newer KC130J I'm going to defer to my colleague here, Admiral Kilby, to give you right.
▶ 3:15:19So, I do see a key uh component to transition, sir. I think we're roughly half legacy aircraft and half new aircraft. The new aircraft of course has a refueling capability which is super important in the Pacific. Uh so we are constrained in what we can put in our budget based on um what we think the composite program is.
▶ 3:15:42But we are and and n admiral vice admiral Nancy Laor is a strong advocate as her force flies that aircraft and how we put that together in our program. Great. I appreciate that Admiral. Um, I also wanted to take a moment to talk about a veteran uh who served on a submarine as a diving officer during the Korean War. Uh, from 1951 to 1955, this courageous American served our country in the Navy just like my grandpa did.
▶ 3:16:10But unlike my grandpa, this veteran was forced to resign from the Navy, receiving an other than honorable rather than be court marshaled because of his homosexuality. Harvey Mil, like every veteran who served our nation, deserves our thanks. To Secretary Failen, can you specifically explain to me and this committee why this administration no longer believes in honoring Mr. Harvey Mil's service to his nation?
▶ 3:16:43Uh, thank you for the question, Congressman. Uh, look, Secretary Hexath is committed to ensuring that the names attached to all DoD installations uh and assets are reflective of the commander-in-chief's priorities uh our nation's histories and the warrior ethos. Does he not prioritize all veterans? Potential renaming decisions will be announced once an internal review is completed. So, nothing has been decided.
▶ 3:17:09He's asked for that review and then we will Would you be able to to express to him that it is important that we honor all veterans of their service? I believe he does honor all veterans. Thank you. As the only elected LGBTQ person on this committee and the first ever from my home state, I speak from for my neighbors and all Americans when I say that Navy veteran Harvey Mil was a warrior in Korea before becoming an elected leader.
▶ 3:17:37His service and his life ended with an assassin's bullet. I walk in the footsteps of leaders before me. He stood up for the same people who are being targeted, persecuted, and vilified by this administration today. My grandpa taught me to stand up for every veteran and thank them every time I see them. Thank them for their service. But picking and choosing who deserves that that thanks.
▶ 3:18:08It's not just wrong. It is unamerican. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. I appreciate your service to our nation. And I yield back. Gentlemen yields back. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Georgia, Dr. McCormack. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, gentlemen, for being here today. Good to see you all here well and healthy. Uh, first of all, this is as near and dear to me as anything we've ever discussed in these hearings.
▶ 3:18:34Um, my first deployment in 1994 on the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit was on the USS Tripoli, affectionately named USS Crippley, been hit by a mine that cost probably about $1,000, which caused about $3.5 million of damage. Gave it a permanent list. They went dead in the water three times on float in temperatures that were well over 100 degrees with probably humidity about 90% because we could see about two miles uh just because the how dense the humidity was.
▶ 3:19:03That was our living conditions where we had our gym which was about the size of about 20 by 20 feet right between where we stored the garbage the morg and started the favs right out the tail section where they also did the smoking on the FV. So you can imagine conditions. We've improved since then. But what's interesting about that is we do our new ship mods. Much to your uh point, Mr. Secretary, we improved these ships, but we haven't really improved our projection of power. Matter of fact, we're very short on that because we don't have the ships. This was a ship that was created in 1966.
▶ 3:19:34And by the way, all three of the uh ships that I was on in the amphibious fleets that I was deployed on Marine Expedition have all been scuttled or or or scrapped now. So that makes me feel very old. Uh but when we look forward and we see the shortcoming. When I came in, we we're projecting a 600 ship navy with the Reagan era. Now we're just trying to literally have enough to deployed to where we're supposed to go. Uh my question is why not, Mr.
▶ 3:19:58Secretary, take a ship, an old LHA, and remod it and and actually have a ship ready to go until we have a replacement uh with a smaller investment, smaller investment of time and money. Uh until we're ready for the next step and we have a ship actually ready. I know it costs money, but does it cost as money in time as as it does with these new ship mods that are getting way over budget as you said 57% over on the best case scenario with a delay of at least six months with the best case scenario?
▶ 3:20:27Why not hold on so some of those ships so we have projection of power? Because no matter how much we have of drones and all the new technologies and all the things we're doing to recreate our services, we don't have projection of power. You cannot replace that with a number. You cannot replace that with a drone.
▶ 3:20:43Why not do something in the short term to put that patch on there when we have a real significant challenge over in the Chinese seas and and uh and other areas where we need to project power right So I I'll let the admiral give you specifics because we are doing this in some cases particularly like on the Ohio class subs and and things like that. I think it's really a question of one, what does it take to get those ships back online?
▶ 3:21:11Two, um the costs of doing that. Three, the timing. So, our our issue is we have a shortage of workers. It's just so if I take someone off a Colombia class sub and to remod a ship to get it out there, I'm just going to extend that. And so, that's I think difficult. I don't think it's as simple and I'll let the admiral comment on it as just taking it out of the yard and putting it back in.
▶ 3:21:38And I think a lot of these ships unfortunately sit in the yard too long. Our maintenance schedules are too long. There are a number of these things compounding themselves. But let me let the admiral maybe address. I I'll try to be brief. I think we should look at that. It's a it's something that we should look at. Our history here hasn't been good.
▶ 3:21:57We had a program called the cruiser mod program and USS Tortuga came up yesterday in our hearing and that's an LSD which we're trying to bring back after the same program and having challenges doing that. So one the ship has got to be capable. Two, I've got to produce a ship that I'm confident can sail underneath the secretary's leadership and do what our country needs it to do. So it would have to meet those conditions.
▶ 3:22:22Not to get political, but I tell you, we have about 16 million Americans out there that could be ship workers if they get off their butts and actually go back to work. That's one of the problems we have. We'll try to motivate them to do exactly that. Uh, Mr. Common, the Marine Corps has led the way and the only service to actually pass their audits in the last several years. What's your secret and how could other services do better to copy the Marine Corps model to actually uh lead the way and be successful in in the future of of uh the way we manage our services? Well, sir, thanks for that question.
▶ 3:22:52Um, we passed the last two audits and we'll continue to pass them. Uh, it's frankly it's a culture. Um, it starts at boot camp. Uh, it starts at your first unit. You're issued a shelter half, five tent pins, three tent poles, and a guide wire. And when you leave the unit, you turn in a shelter half, five tent pins, three tent poles, and a guide wire. Or you get your butt down to Saigon Sams and you buy that because you are responsible for it. And we have individual accountability. You're accountable for your cleaning gear for your M16.
▶ 3:23:20you're accountable for your shelter half and it starts and ends there. It's just 100% accountability. I'm out of time, but I think accountability is what government can learn from. God bless you. Simplify Gentleman yields back chair and I recognize gentleman from California, Mr. Whitesides. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to thank all three of you uh for being here today at a time when our main pacing threat is investing heavily in their own navy and the war in Ukraine is providing a forecast of what the future of state vstate warfare looks like.
▶ 3:23:49The three of you have especially pressing tasks and I'm glad that this committee has the opportunity to discuss these issues with you today. I'd like to start by uh discussing recent reports that there is an effort within other elements of the Department of Defense to cancel the FAXX program in favor of increased investment in the newlyannounced F-47. To me, uh, that's the latest in a series of efforts to put all of our resources towards one solution.
▶ 3:24:19And I'll say to you what I said to your colleagues in the Air Force last week. It's important to pose multiple challenges for our It's important to build multiple layers into our defenses. And so, I remain concerned that pulling resources from the development of a next generation Navy fighter in favor of a single Air Force fighter is both short-sighted and dangerous. With that in mind, Admiral Kirby, does the Navy still have a need for a next generation In my opinion, we do.
▶ 3:24:46In addition to unmanned aircraft in the future, it's a it's a thing we call airwing of the future. So MQ25 is an unmanned tanker. Um I believe we need a manned six-g fighter. We're not ready to make that pivot, but there is a place for unmanned aircraft for us in the future. Yeah, I would agree with that.
▶ 3:25:07Uh, do you believe that industry can support the development of that next generation Navy Um, it's probably not a I don't have an opinion on that because I haven't studied that, but I'm um my opinion is the Navy needs that fighter. Great. Um, Secretary Failen, in your testimony and and Admiral Kirby, in your testimony, you refer to the importance of bolstering the maritime industrial base, and I couldn't agree with you more.
▶ 3:25:35Our ship building industry faces challenges that our rivals do not and we have to make serious progress or risk falling irretrievably behind. There are myriad challenges that need to be overcome. But I want to focus uh now on workforce. Every time I speak with anyone in the defense industry, they bring me their concern about the future of the workforce. As a generation of skilled tradesmen and women retire, they're worried that they won't have the means to replace them. I have the privilege to represent two outstanding community colleges, Analopee Valley Community College and the College of the Canyons.
▶ 3:26:03I also represent the innovative defense companies and defense uh development facilities like plan 42 and skunk works. They all agree on one thing. If these schools could graduate double the number of STEM or skilled trades graduates, our defense industrial base would employ them faster uh and would use them.
▶ 3:26:20So with that in mind, Secretary Failen, can you describe the steps that the Department of Navy is taking not only to booster uh bolster its recruitment and retention efforts for service members, but particularly to support the educational institutions who are training the skilled tradesmen and women our defense industrial base relies on. So we continue to look at a number of different programs in order to get the workforce uh that we need.
▶ 3:26:49And I think there are programs going on around all the public shipyards that we have uh currently uh and we continue obviously to support uh the educational institutions uh uh of the Navy.
▶ 3:27:03Um I think this is something that we are really trying to figure out what is the best mechanism to transfer that skill set because one of the things I'm learning uh when I when I visit with workers is the training that they're getting in some of these places is not as good as when they get to the yard. And we have to make sure we translate that better.
▶ 3:27:28Um, and I think that is uh one of the key things we're still trying to figure out and I look forward as we get that sorted to go there. If I could, thank you, Mr. Secretary. I do want to cite an effort that happened in Representative Keigan State. It's in Danville, Virginia, where they set up an additive manufacturing center of excellence. It's got many components. I'll just talk about the one component where they're working on five different disciplines.
▶ 3:27:55So uh it's additive manufacturing, welding, non-destructive testing, QA and uh and a thing called AC CNC which is subtractive manufacturing. People go to those schools for 16 weeks, eight hours a day and uh and they conduct three sections at full boore. That uh system will produce 900 people a year to go in the defense industrial base with a 90% placement. That is a great model for us.
▶ 3:28:26That's fantastic. And we have similar programs in the envelope valley around composite manufacturing. I think that is one of the pathways to the future. Thanks for your time. I yield back. Gentlemen yields back. Chair, I recognize a gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Maguire. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witnesses. Good to see everyone again. And again, we wouldn't have a country without our men and women in uniform. Thank you. Your job is super important. And that was a great segue because Danville, Virginia ATDM is in my district.
▶ 3:28:53So, Admiral Kilby, in late April, you actually visited the accelerated training and defense manufacturing ATDM summit at the Institute for Advanced Learn and Research ALR in my district, Danville, Virginia. And during a defense appropriation subcommittee hearing, you highlighted the value of the additive work being done at ATM ATDM. And as you said, they do additive and subtractive. You you have a quote. I have a quote here from you. It says, "This part was produced in Danville, Virginia.
▶ 3:29:22It is a part required to fix a Hilo hanger door. When we went to go look at how to make that part or if it was available in the stock system, it was not. It would have taken 40 weeks to make that part, this part through the traditional means, but Danville made that part in 19 days.
▶ 3:29:40And you went on to mention that it could happen in five days today because now they have the IP and would be on hand uh and they could knock it out a lot And I believe this ship had to deploy on time. And if you had to wait 40 weeks, it would have been late. But working over Christmas and New Year's, it deployed on time. So given the administration's emphasis on ship building, I wanted to ask uh Secretary Failen, where do you both envision additive and advanced manufacturing the maritime industrial base?
▶ 3:30:10And does the Navy have plans to accelerate the adoption of additive manufacturing for Navy ship building? Uh yes, absolutely. I mean, we're spending a lot of time looking at it and trying to figure out, uh, where we can use it both for parts, um, occasionally more even modular building, uh, which also will allow you to print parts easier. I also think it's potentially a solution for munitions, uh, as well.
▶ 3:30:39So, I think this is a big focus for us. Secretary Failen, when you and I Oh, I'm sorry. I just concur. I I think the system is not poised to jump into this and that's what I'm trying to stimulate that um engagement. Yeah.
▶ 3:30:55Secretary Failen, when you and I toured the Colombia and the new new enterprise under construction, you said that the welders have the training of a neurosurgeon and I believe some of those best welders that we need in addition to the addition and subtraction 3D printing are being trained right there in Danville. And I love it that you went to Guam and I love it that you guys are taking care of your troops. Uh but if your busy schedule permits, we'd I'd love to attend a tour of ATDM in Danville and uh see what they're doing.
▶ 3:31:25Uh Secretary Failen, Admiral Cur Kilby, a recent Business Insider article included a quote from a Navy commander in the Red Sea that really struck home with me. In a lot of here's the quote. In a lot of ways, the Red Sea, it's a knife fight in a phone booth. The article highlights the difficulty of conducting air and missile defense in tight geographic environments and issues related to using expensive and exquisite weapon systems against targets costing a fraction of the price and time to produce.
▶ 3:31:53Here we're talking about the top gun phrase, the need for speed. What lessons has the Navy drawn from operations in the Red Sea these almost past two years and how do they frame your thoughts on a potential conflict in endo paycom? or not. I guess I'll start with Admiral Kilby on that one. Well, I'd say, sir, we want to, you know, when I asked in this in the past, do you regret this? I I don't regret defending our ships and the 350 crew members are on them.
▶ 3:32:19I do regret using SM2s and SM6s to do that when another munition might be more helpful. So, we are now the Ford strike group is the next Ford strike group to deploy from the east coast. We have put a number of systems on those uh those DDGs, Coyote, Hellfire, Longbow, and others which should allow us to not use those uh preeminent munitions that we'd like to lose for a more challenging threat. And we're going to experiment with that.
▶ 3:32:49And we and and to me that is the path for us is to to not get caught up into I've got to totally integrate this in the system and it's got to be tested but put the system on that we know works for the army in the case of the coyote. Let us experiment with it at sea and then figure out how to develop that quicker. General Smith as part of the Marine Corps force design the Marine Corps has adapted itself to be more agile and prepared for potential fight.
▶ 3:33:18Part of this mission has been to acquisition systems like Nemesis to ensure that Marines can support sea denial and anti-surface warfare. Can you discuss how systems like Nemesis and others are factoring into the acquisition's decisions related to Indopaccom and potential to deter the Congressman, I can the Nemesis, the Navy Marine Expeditionary Ship Interdiction System is Gentleman's time's expired. You have to give that answer for the record. Gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Bell is recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 3:33:48To our witnesses, thank you for being here today. Um, and also I always like to include the folks with you that I see behind you. Thank you for your service as well. My district is home to the production of some of the most well-known and advanced naval aircraft. This includes the FA18, the EA18G Growler, and the new MK MQ25, the Navy's first operational carrierbased unmanned aircraft. As I've said time and time again, the St.
▶ 3:34:17Louis region plays a crucial role in the backbone of our defense establishment. And while St. Louises are proud to contribute significantly to our national defense, I must also acknowledge that many of my constituents are still struggling to recover from uh the most devastating national disaster to hit our region since the late 1950s. uh this will not deter our pride in providing and supporting our supporting our natural national national defense. We will rebuild.
▶ 3:34:47We will support our national security and most importantly we will continue to be a center for innovation, defense and technology. Uh the MQ25 built in my district is an accelerated acquisition program producing the US Navy's first unmanned platform dedicated to its carrier air wings. The MQ25 is slated for initial operational capability in 2026.
▶ 3:35:14And among many critical programs it will be used for it will participate in re refueling missions extending the strike radius of FA18 Super Hornets and F-35C's to beyond a thousand nautical miles. It will also provide enhanced reconnaissance.
▶ 3:35:32Secretary Failen and Admiral Kilby, would you agree that the MQ25 is a critical capability for the future of the carrier, airwing, and overall naval I agree. Short and sweet. I'm good with that.
▶ 3:35:54so um given the current plan to procure three MQ25s, wouldn't adding a fourth aircraft in FY26 further enhance naval readiness and operational flexibility, particularly in prep preparation for potential contingencies in the Indo-Pacific region. Yeah, it will. We want to get that aircraft uh out there as soon as possible. We want to integrate it with the airwing.
▶ 3:36:20that is not only does it do all the missions you describe but it also has a secondary benefit in that it trains our apparatus to do un unmanned and manned flight ops at the same time. So there's a there's a thing there that we have to really get through and I believe that'll be almost a damn breaker.
▶ 3:36:42Once we figure that out, we'll be able to introduce capability much faster, whether it's sensing, reconnaissance, or or potentially even lethality from a from a munitions perspective. But it but MQ25 is the key for us. Secretary, anything? I just want did you want did you associate yourself with those remarks or agree disagree? Okay, thank you.
▶ 3:37:07Um there have been reports that the Pentagon may be considering delaying or even reallocating funds away from the development of the Navy sixth generation fighter program. While I understand the sentiment of many in seeing the FA18 production or seeing the end of the FA18 production, my priority is ensuring that our Navy is equipped with the most advanced aircraft possible to maintain strategic positioning across the globe, especially in the Indo-Pacific region.
▶ 3:37:37Admiral Kilby, can you speak to the potential ramifications of further delaying the development of of procurement of the Navy's sixth generation fighter? Yes, in my opinion, uh I believe the sixth generation fighter is necessary for the Navy just as it is for the Air Force. So to me, the the thing that drives that necessity is the threat and um and that aircraft is specifically designed to counter that threat for both services.
▶ 3:38:06So I I believe it is important for us to produce a sixth generation fighter and do all the things you discussed earlier which is to create an airwing that is manned and unmanned and and gives us the flexibility from the most survivable airfield the ability to do what we need it to do. So to me it's uh it's important to continue onwards here because uh I think China is not slowing down and we we shouldn't slow down either.
▶ 3:38:37Thank you. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Msmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. Secretary Failen, my district is home to Naval Support, Naval Support Activity, Crane, the largest Navy base in the continental US and the third largest in the world and home to NWSC Crane. Crane is at the epicenter of our defense industry and is has one of the fastest growing hubs for the defense industrial base.
▶ 3:39:06But before I get to my questions, I'd like to extend an invitation to you and Admiral Kilby to come to Indiana's 8th district and crane and the great work my constituents are love to do that and look forward to it. Outstanding. Thank you, sir. Okay.
▶ 3:39:24Uh Secretary Failen, um both the executive order on restoring mil maritime dominance and the ships act aimed to revitalize ship building industry, not in just coastal shipyards, but deep into America's interior places like the Midwest along the Ohio River and the Great Lakes that have an abundant industrial potential.
▶ 3:39:43Can you describe how how you plan to implement the president's EO and comment on comment on how the Navy will use our nation's interior states who have a huge industrial manufacturing capability such as Indiana to bolster our ship building Uh thanks for the question, Congressman. Um we're still going through the EO and ways that we can apply that.
▶ 3:40:06um uh that EO is is more focused on commercial right now and so we're trying to figure out the military angle from that and as I said uh earlier today you know incorporating military design in our commercial ship building I think is something we really need to look at and and try to implement uh and and I am hoping uh that uh there are there are elements of that act that I think are very applicable and so part in particular if we open new shipyards we can use aspect effects of that act
▶ 3:40:37to to help probably incentivize military ship building. Excellent. Uh I'm familiar with the maritime industrial base office and the good work they're doing. I'd encourage that office to visit the cities and towns in middle America as much as possible. Is there anything else that the Navy is doing that might not be uh well known toward expanding our ship building into the interior parts of the I I had a conversation with Rep.
▶ 3:41:06uh Captor and recommended to her again the things I think we could do. I described with this one site in Danville. I think we need many Danvilles and Illinois would be a great place to uh to instantiate that. I just think we need to catch up in our industrial base. You know, we're at 11%. We need to be about 33% of our workers need to work in that kind of manufacturing area and I think that's the way to do it.
▶ 3:41:35I also say look I think the Midwest in particular has got very good manufacturing in general. So whether it's components or things we the supply chain we have far too many parts that are soul source supplied and are very small. We need to really rationalize the supply chain and think through that and how that works. And I would think there are places in the Midwest given its history and heritage that could be beneficial to that. Thank you, Secretary Failen.
▶ 3:42:02One of the areas that NSWC Crane is researching and I'm particularly focused on is enhancing our strategic and theater deterrence through conventional prompt strike and nuclear armed sea launch cruise missiles. Within the CPS program, a leading technical risk is whether a novel CPS launch design could impart risk on the platform during an underwater underwater launch.
▶ 3:42:25For that reason, the CPS program has invested in an underwater test capability that underwater and the underwater test launch schedule is dangerously late. Are you focused on maintaining the underwater test launch capability schedule to ensure the test testing schedule has enough time to reduce the risk of submarine deployed deployment of our missile programs? Sir, I need to get back to you on that.
▶ 3:42:52I will I will engage Vice Admiral Johnny Wolf who runs the strategic program and come back to you with an answer about whether we're concerned or not. But in short, I uh support that facility and I just need to understand the specifics more to get at your concern. Okay. And I'd say, you know, if you come out to Crane, that'd be a a great place for both of you to to visit to see what they're doing and and see what can be done to to gain schedule time back.
▶ 3:43:20It will be a national treasure and and vital to our defense. Uh with that, I yield back my time. Gentleman yields back. Gh chair now recognizes a gentle lady from Hawaii, Miss Takuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 3:43:33Um, given reports that 21,000 DoD civilians have already taken the deferred resignation program and with broader plans to cut up to 60,000 civilian positions or about 8% of the work for it, there's a deep concern in Hawaii that these top-down reductions will compromise the Navy's ability to follow through on the Red Hill cleanup and closure. Mr. Secretary, you know how deeply personal the Red Hill disaster is to absolutely everyone who lives in Hawaii.
▶ 3:44:02Can you commit here today that there will be no reductions in the civilian or Navy personnel directly supporting Red Hill remediation and closure efforts? Uh thank you for the uh question, Congresswoman. Look, uh the Navy is executing the requirements and the remediation of Red Hill and and they'll continue to be a great partner to the state of Hawaii. Uh we are moving uh quickly and trying to get everything uh remediated as fast as possible and efficiently.
▶ 3:44:32Uh and to my knowledge there is none of the uh uh the the the workforce changes are impacting our our ability to do Red Hill. Ada did you want to add? I I just say we get weekly reports from Admiral Kaylor, the pack fleet commander, and I have seen no concerns there, but I'm committed just as the secretary is to live up to our commitments to address the issues at Red Hill. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. To be clear, the Navyy's not a partner in this.
▶ 3:45:01Um, this was the fault of the Navy and it is our responsibility to make good to clean up on what will be a generational response to a hazard that has impacted the very water our service members and their families and our people drink. And so this is very again very personal.
▶ 3:45:20I know you're catching up and getting up to speed on a lot of issues, but Red Hill is one you should be intimately familiar with in terms of the impact it has had on the service branch and impacted quite frankly every single service branch. So the more that we can hear because people are concerned. I've had them come to town halls saying that there were concerns that civilians working on Red Hill testing and remediation were going to be, you know, rifted.
▶ 3:45:42They need to hear from you folks that there is in fact not just the billion dollar commitment we have already made but there is a commitment on behalf of the force that we are going to make sure we stay the course in terms of closure remediation testing all the things that are required as a result of this this tragedy and as you know it impacts every aspect of defense presence in the islands we are talking about the lease renegotiations coming up in 2029 and it doesn't matter which service branch you are people think red hill when any service branch comes comes up and
▶ 3:46:13talks about being on the land and so um just to be able to have that firm commitment uh for our people is something that um is absolutely necessary now and going forward. Um moving on though, Mr. Secretary, at the Shanganger dialogues, Secretary Hegset said the US plans to leverage allies worldclass ship repair capabilities to enhance our Navy's operational effectiveness and save taxpayer dollars.
▶ 3:46:37and you've echoed similar sentiments, speaking highly of your visits to shipyards in both Japan and South Korea. How do you envision our allies role in supporting US naval ship building and repair in the years ahead? And how do you plan to ensure that these partnerships are supportive but are not supplanting efforts to actively build up our own domestic industrial base and capacity, workforce, and long-term Uh, thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
▶ 3:47:08As I said, you know, look, we have a short-term problem, which is we have to get holes in the water. Uh, the long-term problem is we need a maritime industrial base. We need ship builders. We need we need that capability in this country. And the president has tasked me with making sure that we develop that and develop those jobs. So, I I think it can take the form of a a couple different ways. So, one, as you know, Hanwa has bought the Philadelphia shipyard.
▶ 3:47:34uh and is looking at um expanding and investing in that shipyard uh and and and building ships. Uh I think we can learn a lot from them and their practices uh which would be beneficial. Um at the same time, I also think there's potential for foreign shipyards to do some repair and maintenance work for us.
▶ 3:47:55bringing ships all the way back from the Indo-acific may not always make the most sense uh particularly in times of uh enhanced conflict or or when when things are a little spicier as I like to call it. Um so I think having that capability with our allies strengthens our our our relationships with them and makes it better. So I think it could be in the form of JVS. I think it can be the form of them investing here.
▶ 3:48:23I think it could be the form of us investing over there as well, but we will need to build that capability out. Thank you. I I I know I'm out of time, but please let us make sure we balance it so that we are also investing in our domestic capacity, the civilian workforce we have in all of our shipyards to both repair and build as well here locally at home. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Gentlely yields back. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Wisconsin. Mr. Mr. Chairman, uh, Mr. Secretary, nice to see you. Admiral Kilby, General Smith.
▶ 3:48:53Hey, I just want to philosophically talk about something quick and I've got some real questions. So, what when the Empire of Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, they did it with the airplanes and they targeted the battleships, the capital ships, thinking that would end the war. They didn't realize that how they attacked the what they thought was the going to be the significant asset was not it was the thing they attacked it with. Um, and I think maybe we're kind of looking at things not from the 21st century at this point because there's hypersonic missiles that our adversaries have that we have no defense against.
▶ 3:49:24And one of those singly is a ship killer. Uh, but you can't sink an island. So, when we're looking at how we're going to lay all these this stuff out, I encourage you guys to really look at our forward islands. You referenced that just a second ago about the material readiness of our vessels, but also fortifying Guam, making sure they have everything they possibly need, other islands in the Marianas, places that are are farther forward that can't be sunk by a missile. So that just I would encourage you to do that.
▶ 3:49:52Um the chairman has led this incredible series of committee hearings about this defense acquisition process and the one thing that we all agree on, Republicans and Democrats, is that it's broken. And let me just tell you how how bad this has gotten. In 1951, Congress authorized the USS Nautilus, first nuclearpowered submarine in the world.
▶ 3:50:15It was launched three years So from Congress saying build a a nuclear submarine, three years later, the hull went in the water and then in 1955 it was under the ice cap. Right? So what we're trying to do is is get to a place where we stop having all of these exquisite requirements to the point where we can't even build them.
▶ 3:50:41We had some ship builders here and they said that the requirements they're being handed by many of the services are at a place where the technologies simply don't exist. Even if we had the welders, they can't actually meet the requirement. So, I'd encourage you guys and gals when you're looking at stuff, um, to say, you know, figure out when is enough, enough is enough. Uh, and then the last thing I just want to ask you one thing here. The there's five soft truths.
▶ 3:51:11The fifth one being most special operations require non-soft support. And when you guys are having these discussions, and I fully agree with making you guys a more live uh service, nimble and responsive. I just don't want you to forget my soft brothers when we're talking about removing platforms because, you know, seals don't fly refuelers and we don't drive ships. And honest to God, Admiral, that's a great thing.
▶ 3:51:39We don't drive them because we wind up in the rocks and the liquor cabin probably be empty. But so I want to make sure that you guys um are taking into account our special operations component commanders and that they have a seat at the table. So Secretary Failen, can you can you tell me with certainty that our special operations component commands across all the services because they depend on these platforms have an actual seat at the table and their voices are heard by you guys? Uh Congressman, yes, thanks for the question.
▶ 3:52:06Look, I think it's critical and I think the services both Mars and SEALs and naval special warfare. I was at SDV1 uh on my way back from Guam. So I spent some time with that team and see some of the things they're doing and the capabilities they have and and it's very good and same thing with Mars in in at Camp Llejun is doing some very very good and excellent work.
▶ 3:52:30So I think SOCOM or special ops has a unique role and has a big multiplier effect for what they do and will be part will have a seat at the table and part of that whole force structure. Well, thank you very much and uh Mr. Chairman uh with that I yield back. I thank the gentleman. The chair now recognized gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Benman. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Secretary of Felon, Admiral Kilby, General Smith. Uh thank you for testifying today.
▶ 3:52:59I have the privilege of having both a Navy and a Marine installation in my district. I have Quanico, the crossroads of the Marine Corps, and I have Dogrren, which is uh really a gem that most people have not heard of, but has national level exquisite um capabilities. And so, General Smith, I had the opportunity to observe Marines testing offensive drone platforms in my district in Quantico last week, and it was an impressive uh demonstration of tactical invasion.
▶ 3:53:29It's actually, I think, the Marines are the first ones and the only ones that are um testing offensive drones in the country on ranges. And um some of these included commercial off-the-shelf products that were highly affordable. And I appreciate the focus of your testimony on the Marine uh air defense integrated system.
▶ 3:53:52Mattis, you explained that we currently have the ability to neutralize threats from group 3 to 5 UAS, but we only have the ability to disrupt groups one to three UAS. Um we saw uh the Ukrainians successfully demonstrate in operation spiderweb. These small commercially available drone drones, especially groups one and two, pose an escalating and asymmetric threat to US forces. How do we ensure that our forces have the capability to neutralize, not just disrupt these drones at the squad or platoon level?
▶ 3:54:24Well, sir, you've hit on a on a challenge that we still don't have an answer for. We're looking for that solution. We're constantly innovating. We're looking at drone on drone strikes, which is like hitting a bullet with a bullet, which is difficult, but we're looking at some technological means to knock the drone out of the sky from the in terms of disassociating it from its operator, making it go to full autonomy mode and then getting into that autonomy mode and disrupting that. So, we really don't have a solution yet, but it is something that we are looking for. Yeah.
▶ 3:54:54So in in that scenario, if if there was a GPS hardened swarm of drones, low lowcost drones launched against a forward deployed marine element, those Marines would not today be able to defeat that threat. Is that accurate? Uh in this classified setting, sir, I would say that that that is partially accurate. We have systems that are designed to bring down drones, but they are uh they are un uh they're unsatisfying if you're a young Lance Corpal. Yeah.
▶ 3:55:23So I would say you know obviously that there's nobody has a solution to this but the best test bed and um probably the most innovations in this we're seeing in the European theater uh in Russia and Ukraine and um they have been fighting uh drone war for the better part of the last year and a half certainly although drones have been on the battlefield since the start of the of certainly the major invasion and um I'm concerned from both offensive and defensive
▶ 3:55:54perspective. I mean, our installations um are are frankly not protected right now and there are some things that Congress can do to help in that regard. I think um 130i um regulations and other things. I would love to see how we can help uh how Congress can help, how we can break break the log jam in this context.
▶ 3:56:17And um you know I truly believe what we're seeing in right now is is sort of a revolution in warfare certainly in land warfare uh as profound as the introduction of of a machine gun in World War I or or aircraft carrier in World War II. Um and I think the Marine Corps needs to have uh dedicated doctrine and and military specialists.
▶ 3:56:40And I saw uh what was a great potential example with the marksmanship team uh out there at Quantico that uh they put together a team that had a CW5 EOD expert and others and they just started doing things and they had the proper level of approval and and um that's where we need to be. We need to move fast and and literally break things in this context otherwise we'll fall behind.
▶ 3:57:04Um, Admiral Kilby, um, again, Dogrin is in my district and, um, I think that the Navy needs a similar doctrine. I mean, we we don't we've seen some of this in the Ukrainian context in the Black Sea. Um, what do we need to do? How do we invest in this unman on these unmanned systems in in the naval context? Uh, thanks for the question. I agree with you about Dogrron. I was stationed there for 18 months.
▶ 3:57:32There is a unique group of individuals there and an expertise that's maybe not known by others. Uh I think we just need to experiment and and our area of non-traditional sea denial is an area where we're investing in unmanned air surface and undersea vessels to bring in an effective bear. And I just think we need to continue there. Sir, I recognize I'm I'm short on time. Thank you. I yield back. Gentleman yields back.
▶ 3:58:00Um, thank you very much for your service to our nation, for your attendance here. It's been very helpful. Uh, our defense department faces some enormous fiscal challenges and structural challenges. Uh, none are greater than what's on your shoulders with our nuclear submarines and our ship building uh, challenges. So, just know that we want to be a partner with you.
▶ 3:58:23So, as soon as you can come up with a path forward, uh please uh share it with us so we can try to help you move down that path in a successful way. And with that, this hearing is adjourned.