▶ 0:10:16the committee on natural resources subcommittee on oversight and uh and the subcommittee on higher education and workforce development will come to order. Without objection, the chair has are authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time. The subcommittees are meeting today to hear testimony on enhancing educational outcomes in Indian country post-secondary education at the Bureau of Indian Education.
▶ 0:10:43Under House Natural Resources Committee Rule 4f, any open oral opening statements are are limited to the chairman and ranking member. for the purpose of this joint hearing that will also be extended to the chairman and ranking member of the subcommittee on higher education workforce development of the committee on education and workforce as well as the full committee chair and ranking member of each I therefore ask unanimous consent that all the other members statements be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted in accordance with house natural resources committee rule
▶ 0:11:1330 without objection so ordered. I ask I ask unanimous consent that the following members be allowed to sit and participate in today's hearing. The gentleman from California, Mr. Lalfa, gentleman from Kansas, Mr. Man. Gentleman from Montana, Mr. Dowling. Without objection, so ordered. I now recognize myself for my opening Good morning everyone. Glad to see it's one of those BA beautiful days.
▶ 0:11:44I would like to once again thank the House Committee on Education and Workforce Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Development for being here today for this joint hearing. I'd also like to thank our witness, Mr. Scott Davis, who himself is a Haskell alumni for joining us. Thank you very much. Last year, our subcommittee convened a historic joint hearing following numerous reports of wrongdoing at Haskell Indian Nations University.
▶ 0:12:09That hearing served as an opportunity for both sides of the aisle to come together and agree that there more had to be done to better serve the students of Haskell and all tribal schools. Quite frankly, as Congress and a nation, we must have a trust responsibility. We have a trust responsibility to our tribal nations that cannot be pushed aside. With the Trump administration, we are in a new chapter. And in today's hearing, we will discuss how we can better serve our tribal students with a particular focus on post-secondary education.
▶ 0:12:38Today's hearing will not just focus on Haskell. The Bureau of Indian Education or BIE runs another postsecondary institution. The Southwest Indian Polytechnic Institute, also known as Sippy. Both schools face a range of serious issues on their campuses, including criminal misconduct, below average graduation rates, large deferred maintenance backlogs, and more. Our tribal students deserve better. Both institutions have suffered from leadership and management issues.
▶ 0:13:08For example, there have been multiple instances of HASLL failing to complete the length legally required background checks for their staff. According to a former HA hasll president, at least three board members, boards of regent members failed their background checks, one of whom was a convicted felon. In January of this year, an ex Haskell board of regents member was banished from his tribe after pleading guilty to serious felonies, including attempted homicide, among other crimes. School also lost its ninth president in eight years this May.
▶ 0:13:39A change in leadership that aligned with the change in accreditation in the spring. This subcommittee held a hearing in February highlighting how BIE is unable to effectively manage deferred maintenance at their elementary and post-secondary schools.
▶ 0:13:53This issue is seen across campuses both hasll and In 2021, the Bureau of Indian Affairs Office of Facilities Property and Safety Management released a faculty condition index for the BIE schools which found that Haskell and Cippy's campuses are in poor condition due to the deferred maintenance backlog. A 2023 faculty condition assessment of Haskell found that 27 of the school's 36 buildings were in severe condition and in need of immediately immediate replacement.
▶ 0:14:23At the start of the 2024 20 2025 academic year, Hassel turned away newly enrolled students because they lack the necessary housing for them to stay on campus. Cippy has indicated their poor campus conditions are to blame for the declining enrollment. In addition to poor facilities, both schools have low graduation rates and issues with their academic accreditation. In 2023, CYP's graduation rate was a mere 9%. Wow.
▶ 0:14:50Earlier this year, the higher learning commission changed has accreditation rating to continued accreditation with monitoring. This indicates concerns regarding the institution's compliance with accreditation requirements. Back in 2010, Cippy lost their accreditation due to testing and record keeping issues. But their accreditation status was returned in 2014 and reaffirmed in 2018. While this indicates an improvement for Sippy, anything other than full accreditation for our university run by federal employees is inexcusable.
▶ 0:15:20Beyond the leadership, on May 5th, 2025, the Office of the Inspector General released a summary of an investigation which found that a BIE employee sexually harassed student athletes on the Haskell women's basketball team. According to the report, the employee made cruel jokes and sexual comments and had non-con consensual contact with the student.
▶ 0:15:41This behavior deterred some student athletes from going to the athletic training room to receive And that employees supervisor and other staff knew about it and failed to report it. Worse yet, this employee had to be investigated by BIE had been investigated by BAI decade before for similar complaints from an intern who was working at Haskell while attending the University of Kansas. It's past time for real and longlasting changes at these schools.
▶ 0:16:08Despite all despite of all the known issues at Haskell City, which have gone on for far too long, I believe that everyone in this room feels that the tribal students deserve better. I look forward to working with my colleagues as well as the Trump administration and Secretary Bergam to put tribal students first and ensure that we can not only fulfill these trust responsibilities but also empower these institutions with the input of tribes to be the best versions of themselves. Thank you.
▶ 0:16:36I now recognize ranking member Dexter for her opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Davis, for joining us today. I also want to welcome my colleagues from the educational and the workforce committee subcommittee on higher education and workforce development and thank them for their ongoing leadership on this topic. Tribal colleges advance tribal sovereignty and self-determination while providing culturally competent education for native students.
▶ 0:17:06We have a treatymandated obligation to support these institutions and ensure that meaningful effort and investment is being made to offer exceptional learning opportunities. The Bureau of Indian Education operates two post-secondary schools as you have heard Haskell Indian Nations University and Southwestern Indian Polytenic Institute known as from here on in um or also already known. They are cornerstones of tribal education and represent an important pathway for native students from all over the country.
▶ 0:17:36In fact, each of us here on the dis probably represent alumni of Haskell and Cippi. At this subcommittee's recent hearing on tribal K12 education exposed the dire state of infrastructure needs at tribal schools. School residential halls, classrooms, and campus facilities have crumbling infrastructure, aging sewer and HVAC systems, and extensive weather damage.
▶ 0:18:02Underfunding has been identified as a major problem, not the only problem, but certainly the biggest one. The same is true for post-secondary institutions. Haskell alone faces a $90 million maintenance backlog. And the biggest driver of this crisis is clear. chronic systemic underfunding. Now, the Trump administration is proposed to make a bad situation much worse.
▶ 0:18:26Trump's budget would cut BIE education construction funding by 80% and cut tribal post-secondary programs by 90%. That's on top of reckless staffing cuts from halfhazard doge firings and buyouts. These are not just budget decisions. They are attacks on tribal education and together they could cause irre irreparable damage to the very institutions we are supposed to be here to support.
▶ 0:18:52It is pointless to have a discussion today about whether BIE is adequately tracking its building maintenance if there's no money and no staff to do the tracking. At the same time, I am encouraged by this committee's ongoing bipartisan investigation into Haskell suggesting that both sides care enough to protect it.
▶ 0:19:12I hope my colleagues on the other side of the aisle will work with me on a letter to appropriators asking for the funding to keep the school intact while we pursue real reform. Because Haskell students deserve better incidents including sexual harassment, bullying, retaliation, and other symptoms of institutional failure rest at the feet of all levels of leadership. Just last month, the Haskell president resigned abruptly after a routine but extensive accreditation process.
▶ 0:19:42I am grateful for the leadership of my colleague, Representative Emily Randall, for securing a commitment during the reconciliation markup for this committee to work with the Government Accountability Office in a bipartisan way to provide guidance on the reforms we should consider at Haskell. It's also important to note that tribes in Kansas appear to be coalesing behind a proposal to remove BIE from Haskell's operation. We must listen to tribal communities if we hope to serve Haskell students.
▶ 0:20:12I hope we can have that conversation soon because I am concerned that the proposal could make Haskell mo more vulnerable, not less. Yet another proposal could make Haskell and Cippy more vulner vulnerable is the reauthoration reauthorization of the Great American Outdoors Act or goa sorry. When it was signed into law in 2020, it provided $95 million for BIE run schools.
▶ 0:20:40Haskell and Cippy were eligible to get some of their that funding, though they did not receive any. If Haskell and Cippy lose foundational funding because of the budget cuts proposed by Republicans, the GOA funding will be crucial. When this committee reauthor reauthorizes Goa, tribal schools must continue to remain eligible for those funds.
▶ 0:21:04As we consider various reforms at BIE schools, I hope we can center our trust and treaty obligations. We can't fix a problem caused mostly by underfunding by acceleration of underfunding. I know my colleagues on the other side of the aisle care about Haskell and Cippy and I'm grateful we can work together on this. There's a lot we agree on. None of it will matter if Haskell takes a 90% budget cut or its federal funding is eliminated entirely. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:21:34I yield back. I thank the ranking member. Um, I also want to wave the gentle lady from New Mexico, Miss Stanbury, the gentle lady from Washington and Miss Randall, and the gentleman from California, Mr. Gray, onto the committee. Without objection, store ordered. I now want to recognize the subcommittee on higher education and workforce development chairman, Mr. Owens, for his opening testimony. Thank you, uh, Chair Gozer, and um, good morning everyone.
▶ 0:22:03As chairman of the higher education workforce subcommittee, it is my privilege to join you and others in hosting this very important hearing. One that in which we'll hear about the status of the postsecondary education provided by BIE for Native Americans. I look forward to u hearing our witness of Mr. Scott Davis uh currently carrying out the duties of the assistant secretary of bureau of Indian affairs. This a little bit a little close. Okay. All right.
▶ 0:22:32Almost one year ago, in another joint hearing by these subcommittees, we heard about the dysfunction of BIE, mismanagement, fraud, nepotism, the failure to investigate complaints, a failure to address sexual harassment, and a longtime failure to exercise proper oversight of the Haskell Indian Nations University. In addition to these failures, we're again going to discuss as in the past inability of BIE to properly steward its buildings and campuses in educating Native American students. is not just stewardship of property.
▶ 0:23:02There's also reoccurring instances of sexual harassment at Haskell Indian Nations University that is particularly troubling and the lack of strong response by its leaders. And it doesn't stop there. More broadly, BIE has failed to meet the mark has failed to create and instill in a culture of accountability in the bureau and its schools. Southwestern Indian Politics Institute is similar. Senior officials there have also demonstrated a lack of leadership.
▶ 0:23:29A 2018 sexual harassment investigation by the inspector general revealed that neither BIE nor Southwest had a policy prohibiting sexual relationship between faculty and students. Uh obviously that leaves a lot of Native American females at risk. All these incidents are problematic and we need solutions. I'm hopeful for the uh that the testimony of Mrs.
▶ 0:23:53Davis will include solutions that will get BIE Haskell and Southwestern on the path to long-term success. Our students deserve no less. Thank you, Chairman. I yield I thank the gentleman from Utah. I now recognize the subcommittee on higher education workforce development, ranking member Adams for her opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And uh I'd also like to thank Chairman Gosar and Ranking Member Dexter uh as well as the witness uh for being here today.
▶ 0:24:22Last summer, we held a similar joint hearing regarding post-secary education under the Bureau of Indian Education. That hearing primarily focused on Haskell University. And so I'm grateful for the opportunity to revisit that issue. Uh let me begin by acknowledging the United States shameful history of mistreating and forcibly assimilating native people.
▶ 0:24:46Our country has spent many decades and worked across many administrations in an attempt to rectify a fraction of these injustices and to do what we can to improve the lives of of native people uh today by ensuring educational and economic opportunity in these communities.
▶ 0:25:05Haskell Indian Nations University and Southwestern univer Indian Poly Techch University uh represent among other things a promise on behalf of Congress to indigenous communities across the country. For example, through title three of the higher education act of 1965, Congress committed to supporting quality tribal colleges and universities.
▶ 0:25:30Uh these tribal colleges were meant to be safe spaces for native students to receive a quality affordable education while embracing and uplifting their culture. That's a vision worth striving for and that goal should be the focal point of our conversations today. Unfortunately, the US government has consistently fallen short of this goal and has never fully kept its promise to appropriately fund these schools.
▶ 0:26:00Over the years, these schools have gone neglected and underfunded. A and one impact of this treatment has been the infrastructure challenges and the maintenance backlogs that these schools have experienced. Without additional resources, these schools cannot address issues facing their physical structures such as leaking roofs and plumbing issues, uh, electrical issues, and other infrastructure problems.
▶ 0:26:26And unfortunately, these are not the only problems we've heard of at Haskell University. We've heard of instances of abuse, corruption, scandal, all of which limit students ability to learn safely and succeed.
▶ 0:26:41Specifically, we've heard allegations of the Bureau of Indian Education itself failed to provide leadership, transparency, accountability, and management despite reports of a hostile campus environment riff with with issues such as academic fraud, nepotism, and tragically in some cases sexual misconduct and abuse.
▶ 0:27:06In fact, in May, the Department of Interior's Office of Inspector General found that B.IE employees sexually harass student athletes on on then women's basketball team. The students and faculty of these schools deserve better, and the native communities that they serve deserve to have the promise of opportunity fulfilled. The answer to these issues is not to abandon High School and its community.
▶ 0:27:33It's critical that this school along with Cippy and and their students get the support that they need. And this includes providing support and funding so that they can too live up to the standards that their communities deserve. And this is why we need the administration to take steps to to help these schools. However, from what we've seen so far, they've done the opposite.
▶ 0:27:57In February, the Trump administration fired a significant number of staff members from the Bureau of Indian Education. Some of them working at Haskell and Cippi only to be forced to rehire them. And so, let me be clear, these firings accomplished nothing uh but to add instability and uncertainty to these schools.
▶ 0:28:21Further, the administration's FY26 funding request did not indicate any intent to increase support at these schools through the Bureau of Indian Education's budget. In fact, the president's budget request was to cut funding by almost 90%.
▶ 0:28:40So, in light of all of this, at this hearing, I would like to hear how the Trump administration plans to provide support for these institutions and to help make improvements where needed. Congress has a responsibility to ensure that the students at these schools receive a high quality education and a safe environment that's conducive to celebrating and uplifting nature na native culture.
▶ 0:29:07As a 40-year retired professor, I believe that student success is important. Far too long, the federal government has neglected that duty, and it's time to write past wrongs, get these schools back on track for the sake of the next generation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I thank the gentle lady for her comments. I now recognize the House Education and Workforce Full Committee Chairman, Mr. Wahberg, for an opening statement. Thank you uh Chairman Gosar.
▶ 0:29:37Let me first extend my thanks to you for initiating this hearing and also thanks to subcommittee chairman Owens who has faithfully led our higher education and workforce development subcommittee in the 118th and now the 119th Congress. He's repeatedly talked about how education is the key to unlocking the American dream. And of course, I lend my hearty amen to that.
▶ 0:30:03This is the second time our subcommittees have come together to hear the reoccurring uh operational challenges of the Bureau of Indian Education. Over and over we've read reports and heard testimonies by GAO, the Inspector General and others about BIE's poor management of its K12 and postsecary schools and inability to exercise meaningful oversight of Haskell Indian Nations University. It's well documented.
▶ 0:30:34The problem at Haskell are apparent. Uh the failure to maintain a safe and secure learning environment for students, misconduct by students and staff, including sexual harassment that has often gone unressed. Bullying, nepotism, employee favoritism, and the list goes on.
▶ 0:30:58Within the last few weeks, we learned of the inspector general's report about the sexual harassment of students on Haskell's women's basketball team, the failure of supervisor to report the harassment, and potential violations of Kansas state law involving athletic trainers.
▶ 0:31:18More broadly a and I as I have observed from my role as chairman of the education and workforce committee, we continue to investigate campus anti-semitism, advocate for changes in the student loan program uh through reconciliation and dealing with malign foreign influence by China at our colleges and universities. I'm grateful that we're making strides on these fronts and they must continue.
▶ 0:31:45At the same time, we must do more to ensure Native American students are provided a safe and secure environment to learn at Haskell and that uh and and and that BIE once and for all rises to the occasion. I look forward to working with President Trump and his team to hear their solutions for BIE and Haskell. And Mr. Davis, I certainly look forward to your testimony and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:32:15I thank the gentleman. I now recognize the House and Natural Resources full committee ranking member, Mr. Huffman, for his five minutes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am glad that we're here uh talking on a bipartisan basis about these important institutions, Haskell and Cippy. Um obviously they have a very important mission. Uh they are pillars in the tribal education community.
▶ 0:32:40works against poverty and they create opportunities for tribes throughout the country and a lot has been said about the problems at Haskell. Uh other members have covered it fully. I I don't disagree with any of those characterizations. It's it's a big problem and we need to tackle it in a serious and bipartisan way. But it is worth noting that we have a lot greater visibility into Haskell and all of these issues because they're run by the federal government.
▶ 0:33:08We have better mechanisms for accountability and reform because these schools are run by the federal government. Now, the problems at Haskell are complex. There are multiple causes, but there's a single cause that stands out um as eclipsing perhaps all of the others, and that is loss of funding. The president's proposed budget for 2026 cuts funding for Haskell and Cippy by almost 90%.
▶ 0:33:37Uh we have to talk about that. That is essential context for these problems that we say we care about in a bipartisan way. The budget for education construction at BIE would be cut by 80%. So if you think we had a serious problem with the maintenance backlog before, imagine adding an 80% cut to that BIE education construction account on top of all of that.
▶ 0:34:05And of course, all of this should be a call to action for us to reauthorize the Great American Outdoors Act in a way that ensures that BIE and institutions like Haskell and Cippy continue to get critical funding from that legislation. Um, there's one more thing that we really can't forget uh as part of this conversation, and that's the attacks by Elon Musk's Doge.
▶ 0:34:32In February, nearly 25% of staff members at Haskell and Sippy were just fired, including instructors, maintenance workers, and other support staff. Dozens of courses at both schools lost their School dorms were overrun with garbage. Students reported undrinkable brown water. Dining halls failed to adequately feed students. And widespread power outages hampered students ability to study. Uh so some campus staff have been rehired.
▶ 0:35:01Thankfully, uh, but employees at BIE's central and regional offices were also fired and given buyouts, and frankly, uh, it has just led to chaos that is not good for either of these institutions. We cannot deprive an institution of resources and expect it to survive, let alone to help its students thrive. So I'm interested in working across the aisle with my Republican colleagues on confronting the serious problems at Haskell and Cippy.
▶ 0:35:31I will do that with any member of Congress. Uh but I'm not interested in using these problems as a pretext for further gutting BIE or spinning off these institutions in a way that could leave them orphaned and without federal funding and accountability. So with that, I I yield back. Mr. Chairman, I think the gentleman from California now the the full rank full committee uh chairman Western is recognized. He's been sitting patiently. Thank you, Chairman Gosar.
▶ 0:35:58And also want to extend a thank you to Chairman Wahlberg for his cooperation on this issue and for uh helping us coordinate this this joint here hearing and chairman Owens for your work on this critical issue. and I'm pleased that we are here meeting again to talk about uh the issues that students are continuing to face at BIE's post-secondary institutions.
▶ 0:36:23Since our 2024 hearing, I have had the privilege of working with former Chairwoman Fox along with now Chairman Wahlberg as well as my colleagues across the aisle to look at ways we can improve educational outcomes for tribal students attending these schools. And this is a a bipartisan issue. It's something that we should um work together on and it's something that we should fix as soon as possible.
▶ 0:36:49But following our hearing um last Congress, our committee took decisive action to further address ongoing issues at Haskell. However, our efforts were stonewalled by DOI and the previous administration. And the Department of Interior under its previous leadership did not provide proper access to a 2022 BIE report or its exhibits as promised despite a bipartisan request for review.
▶ 0:37:15Because of this, our teams left with more questions than answers and follow-up requests for access went unanswered. Our committees also have worked to address the lack of background checks for members of the Haskell Board of Regents. Since our last hearing, a former member of the Haskell Board of Regents pleaded guilty to a number of very serious felonies and was banished by his tribe.
▶ 0:37:38Because these board members have an active role on campus, background checks are an important tool in ensuring the ongoing safety of enrolled students. As has been mentioned, reports of sexual harassment continue to create an unsafe environment for students at Haskell.
▶ 0:37:53On May 5th, the Department of the Interior Inspector General's Office released a report summary which found that BIE employee a BAE employee sexually harassed members of the Haskell women's basketball team and that the supervisors and the staff did nothing about it. After reviewing this report, I'm further appalled. This same individual was reported by another student intern nearly a decade ago for similar behavior in investigated by the BIE. Yet no action was taken.
▶ 0:38:24This is not the time for more investigation. This is the time for action. The overall condition at BIE schools continues to be unacceptable. The fact that enrolled students were turned away from Haskell at the start of the 2024 2025 academic year because of a lack of housing is unacceptable. The fact that students at Haskell and Cippy are living in unsafe conditions on their campuses is not only unacceptable, but it's also appalling.
▶ 0:38:50It's incredibly disheartening and concerning that the BIE has failed to properly educate and foster a healthy learning environment for our tribal students. We have trust obligations to our tribes and part of those trust obligations come from the Department of Interior and BIE. But because of the issues we have identified at Haskell and Cippy, Congress has had to step in where B.I.E. and the department previously failed to provide proper oversight.
▶ 0:39:17Since the previous administration stonewalled Congress, we were limited in our ability to effectively provide oversight of BIE. And with the issues we identified, it is deeply concerning and troubling to me that all of our requests were ignored by the former Secretary of the Interior. We now have the opportunity to reset and refocus. I think that Dr. Gossar said it best during our February hearing when he said that America first means putting tribes first.
▶ 0:39:44I'm looking forward to hearing from our witnesses today who understand as has already been said, Mr. Davis is a graduate of Haskell. Uh in this new era, I look forward to exploring how Congress can work together with tribes and the Trump administration to ensure that Haskell and Cippy do not return to business as usual at the expense of their students. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Herman. I will now introduce our witness, Mr.
▶ 0:40:10Scott Davis, senior adviser to the secretary, adi exercising the delegated authority of the assistant secretary Indian affairs, bureau of Indian affairs, US Department of Interior, Washington DC. Let me remind you that the witness that under committee rules, you will limit your statements to about five minutes. Just know that the entire statement is already part of the part of the record. To begin your testimony, make sure you push to the green light so that it's already on. When you see it getting yellow, start wrapping it up and if it gets red, please stop.
▶ 0:40:40Um, I now recognize you, Mr. Davis, for your five minutes. Thank you, sir. First of all, I want to uh thank you uh chairman, members of committee for this opportunity and u probably most importantly the attention. But first of all, I just want to greet you all in my in my own way, in my in my tongue. Oshkate to Mchiwapin, uh, Standing Rock, Turlean, Oate, uh, Davis, Buffalo Boy, Ple Taosh.
▶ 0:41:12Uh, good, good day everybody. I greet you all with a heart um, warm heartfelt handshake here. Um, it's a pleasure and an honor here to be in front of you today to talk talk about a very very important topic that's very personal to me uh, for a number of reasons. Um, one being higher education. Uh, two, it's my elma mater in Haskell. So, so with that, Mr. Chairman, as you as you uh alluded to, I'm a Haskell graduate. Very proud of that back in the uh back in the 80s 90s.
▶ 0:41:39Um I come from a long line of graduates from Haskell, including my mother uh who I think is watching today. Hopefully proud probably. I have certainly a lot of uncles and and um and relatives that have graduated over the years uh back in years ago and even today too. So, a long history with Haskell in our education. Uh my father, Dr.
▶ 0:41:58Jim Davis who was a college president um uh passed away this this January um still get emotional of that was a college president and was a board of trustee was a regent at one time at Haskell back in the 90s so we have a long very strong ties to Haskell I was also went to Haskell as a u as an athlete back in the day uh many pounds ago I'll say as a track and uh and marathon runner in which I was uh very uh fortunate to be an all-American back in 1988 for the marathon
▶ 0:42:28championship team. So that history of of uh of um Haskell with his tradition of education um and also the history of Billy Mills and Jim Thorp is probably one of the re big reasons why I went there uh because I wanted to be an Olympian at one time. Uh but you know those were the things I I aspired to be but here I am today.
▶ 0:42:49Um but the you know these schools uh along with the 574 tribes across in the country across America all have our unique way of educating our our tribal students. Um um some have a number of BIE schools that we that we um that we lead also a number of uh TCUs tribal colleges that are out in uh throughout in the country. Their existence and their quality of education provided have a direct and immediate impact for all future of Native Americans and sovereignty for all tribal communities.
▶ 0:43:20President Trump, Secretary Bergam, and my office uh leadership are dedicated to providing educational choice to our students to help prepare them to enter the workforce and lead successful lives in the next generation of tribal leaders. BIA remains focused on ensuring access to highquality cultural relevant education that reflects the diverse needs and priorities of Indian students and tribal communities. Ongoing investments are being made in critical areas such as school infrastructure, instructional quality, and student support services.
▶ 0:43:50We also remain committed to maintaining the educational stability in tribal communities and ensuring alignment with local needs. We also continue to engage in regulatory travel leaders uh meetings, schoolboard meetings, committee members to guide us to invest investment decisions and identify opportunities for collaboration. With the resources entrusted by my agency and by Congress, we will continue advancing initiatives effectively and efficiently that promote academic excellence while honoring the culture identities of our Native American students.
▶ 0:44:20So again, Mr. Chairman, members of committee, thank you for this opportunity and uh more importantly the attention. Um it's it's kind of a I would say unfortunate that you're into this second hearing uh since last year addressing you know these challenges. Um I hope it's the last one. Um I hope we don't have to you know reconvene again here next year.
▶ 0:44:41Um because I'm fully committed into uh through my leadership through my experience with higher ed working for tribal college for eight years uh being an adjunct instructure um uh even starting my my career as a K through8 uh teacher aid and coach back in the 90s uh and growing up in the in the in environment of higher education and education. So I'm very committed to uh seeing this through uh very concerning.
▶ 0:45:07I'm very appalled uh like like most of you uh very upset personally of what I've I've been reading what I've been hearing about. Um but I'm I'm really looking forward to working with you and finding a different way a reset button of how we can make Haskell and our other educational uh settings uh more beneficial to my relatives uh throughout the country. So So those are my opening comments. Uh Mr. Chairman, I'll stand for any questions or comments at this time. Thank you very much, Mr. Davis, for your comments.
▶ 0:45:36I'm now recognize members on the dis for your questions. I'm first going to go to the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Burgess for his five minutes. Thank you. Uh first of all, Mr. Daves, I look forward to work with you. Um I also come from a long line of educators. My dad was a college professor for 40 years. Mom was a high school teacher. Um I look forward to you adding your tenacity, your grit as a former athlete uh to your love of education. And uh we're going to write this ship for sure. I thought I'd start off last night.
▶ 0:46:03I just decided to read the mission statement for the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Uh in the last sentence, it says this, promoting tribal self-determination and self-governance. And how do you get there is through education, through BIE. Well, let me tell you what the status is of this community. Um it is the actual worst than any community in our country.
▶ 0:46:26is number one in suicide, number one in lowest life expectancy, number one in violence and victimization, number one in alcohol abuse, number one in unemployment, number one in school dropout. Number now shares with the black community sex trafficking of girls. Evil hides in darkness. Evil hides behind invisible victims.
▶ 0:46:50having the sovereignty state na uh nation status does not allow anyone to keep these good Americans from achieving the American dream. And unfortunat that's that's been that's been happening way too long. Um I'm looking forward to um oh by the way let me just say this real quickly.
▶ 0:47:07Uh and and I might sound like a broken record, but I grew up at a time when I saw my community, my black community, lead our country in growth middle class, men retracing from college, men committed to marriage and percentage of entrepreneurs because we had we had vision, we had education, and we had a a desire to really command respect. It was not the white supremacists that got us. It was black elitists, people who look like me who decided that their their success, their prominence, their profitability was more important than our race.
▶ 0:47:37And I think we need to get back to merit in this community. We need to bring that to the front. And I look forward to doing that because there are people who care about the Native American population. And it's time that we start making them first and not not acting as if they're invisible to the rest of our country because of the status that was given them many, many years ago.
▶ 0:47:56Um, Miss Davis, uh, uh, a May 2025 inspector general report documents reported incidents of sexual harassment of some of the members of the Haskell women's basketball team by one of his athletic trainers. Since taking on the role of assistant secretary, what have you done to address the findings of this report? Um, and have you directed high school or BIE to develop a plan of action to address these findings? Uh, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, Mr. Owens. Yeah.
▶ 0:48:25Um, thank you. I echo your your your your sentiments and your background on how you were raised. I I totally agree with that as well. Um um I know these these I've I've read most of the reports, not totally in depth. I'm still reading a lot of the reports. Uh very concerning, very appalled, very very upsetting. Um obviously I can't comment on the investigation itself. Um can't do that. But I can assure you through our leadership, through my my action, all these things will be addressed.
▶ 0:48:54whether it's the background checks, the uh the the allegation of sexual abuse, um all the the things that are included in those reports, all being addressed immediately as we speak. Okay. And I know you're just kind of uh getting sea legs on this, but is there's any latest status on the inspector general's referral of the Kansas State Authorities for any potential violations of the licensing regulations governing athletic trainers? Is there any updates on that at all? Yeah, Mr. Owens, member of the committee.
▶ 0:49:22I I don't I'm not uh not certain on that one. I haven't read that one. Um I'm I'm aware of it as of yesterday, but I'm not aware of the one that relates to uh the state of Kansas. On that one, sir. Well, just this I'm going to I'm going to pass on in a minute. I'm excited the fact we have a new sheriff in town. Um all Americans count in this country. Uh those who have been hidden in the past are no longer be hidden.
▶ 0:49:44and I look forward to our um this uh this this committee really taking advantage of of what we have going on and make sure that uh we give every child a ch a chance to live the American dream. So, thank you and I look forward to working with you and uh and Mr. May yield back. I thank the gentleman. Gentleman recognizes the ranking member for the uh committee uh Miss Dr. Der for her five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr.
▶ 0:50:09Davis, it's clear and I appreciate how much you care about our tribal schools and your dedication to them and the students you serve. Thank you for that. Um, in your opinion, does the president's proposed budget for BIE indicate that this administration also cares about tribal students and I'm sorry, I can't see your your tag here, madam.
▶ 0:50:34uh but uh yeah respectively uh you know in the president's budget you know for uh 2026 uh provides resources for BI's core mission to support bureau operated and tribbally controlled primary and secondary schools along Haskell Indian Nations University and Cippi uh BI budget request of 9 million and change in 2026 to continue support for Indian education programs including formula funding operations and maintenance funding for elementary and secondary schools
▶ 0:51:04and support for secondary programs. The request prioritizes pro programs that directly support educational services to Indian children at BIE funded schools including the total BIE budget is 22 million uh to specifically operations at both CP and Haskell. These funds ensure that BIE and operating postsecondary institutions are able to continue services delivery to support all tribes. So Mr.
▶ 0:51:30Davis, the president's budget proposes a 90% cut from BIE post-secondary programs like Haskell and Sippy and an 80% cut to the BIE education construction. Do you think that this budget is a serious effort to address infrastructure concerns at our tribal colleges? Well, madam, uh I know this is again I think a unique time for Haskell, uh unique time for in the country, a unique time for all of BIA in general.
▶ 0:51:59um as we look at resetting uh some buttons of of uh the path forward whether it's uh BI services in general throughout the country or higher educ education uh institutions like Haskell uh and sippy um looking at different unique innovative ways and how we fund raise or provide um uh funding sources.
▶ 0:52:23I look at my own career back at uh United Technical College back in 2008 2007 where I was a development officer and we got a lot of federal funding at that time. Also I was uh I was hired to look at other funding opportunities. U we de developed a foundation. I'm not certain if SASL has a foundation or not but maybe that's one thing that we should look at collectively. Uh but ultimately trying to give Haskell more areas of funding potential versus kind of being dependent upon the federal dollar.
▶ 0:52:52Um but again looking forward to working with you Congress uh my office um you know the interior office and how we can look at more innovative ways for funding mechanisms for Haskell. No and I appreciate that. I mean I understand that you are looking at other options and you know at what is a shortfall for what is needed at Haskell and Cippy.
▶ 0:53:13Um, I guess I'm going to move on because I think it's clear that you're in a difficult situation and you're looking at other options to make sure you have the resources you need. But, um, do you believe the current infrastructure at VIE run colleges fosters a high quality academic environment? Yeah, great question again too. I appreciate that.
▶ 0:53:38I was very um uh I'll say privileged uh very honored uh very humbled to be asked to be one of the commencement speakers about a month ago for graduation. Um I I was just tickled, excited, very very nervous because I haven't been back to my Elma moder like 30 years and so entering the campus uh you know certainly a lot has changed uh uh a lot hasn't changed.
▶ 0:54:00Uh so during my my my two-day uh visit there uh obviously visited uh the faculty, the staff, the students, took a lot of time just to have one-on-one meetings and so forth and took a long uh look at our our um um my old dorm. You know, I was a dorm president back then and I need some help. You know, my mom's dorm, I took a picture of it uh old Pocahontas Hall, you know, I said, "Look, mom, look at your your your dorm. It's still there.
▶ 0:54:27Need some help." You know, so these are things uh when you have an iconic historical campus like Haskell and Cippy, you know, it's it obviously is going to be wear and tear, deferred maintenance. Those are things that I think collectively working together, we can look at those things and how we can get those things up to par for safety and a good learning environment for our students across the country. So I have a few other questions, but in in um to be in order, I guess I'll yield back and see if we have an opportunity later.
▶ 0:54:57Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Davis. I acknowledge the the chairman for the full committee, Mr. Westerman from Hogsaw, for his first five minute call. Thank you, Chairman Gosar, and thank you, Mr. Davis, for your testimony and for being here today. As I mentioned earlier, we pretty much got stonewalled by the previous administration when we asked for information following our our hearings last Congress. And my first question to you will be, will you commit to working with Congress to address the issues at Haskell and Cippy?
▶ 0:55:27Absolutely, sir. Um I'm pleased to hear that we have um that agreement and the department will work with us to help the students at Haskell and Cippy. Uh from the issues that you've identified, what do you see as the greatest threats facing students at these institutions? Yeah, great question. I appreciate the question.
▶ 0:55:46I think u some of those things that I'll deceive even as a parent, you know, uh when my wife and I went down for graduation uh together uh for, you know, obviously a special moment for me personally, you know, we thought of our daughters who's a freshman in college right now and a graduating senior and we thought as parents like would this be a great place for our daughters to come here?
▶ 0:56:07Um and my my wife who is kind of the the mama bear of our family and uh you know what what what she says kind of goes sometimes in my family she said yeah this would be a great place for for our daughters to come and learn because of the interaction with the families that were there during graduation the alumni uh I felt very very very secure but I think the the the thing that maybe is a challenge is the sometimes the uncertainty you know of of you know there's a pending legislation through through your through your hallways here of a potential bill
▶ 0:56:37that's being introduced. That's great. What does that bill look like? Don't know. Um again, these are the things that we want to help you with on what that uh uh congressional bill would look like that would benefit Haskell for the long term. Uh whether that's funding, infrastructure, governance, you know, all those things, all the above. But the I think the just the one challenge that I would feel as a parent, as alumni would be just the the certainty or the uncertainty that's that's going on right now. a lot of questions, you know, that are out there pending and rightly so.
▶ 0:57:06You know, these questions are concerned uh for me. Uh but I'm I guess in I'm in a good position and very committed, you know, through my leadership and um through my uh through my experience to help see this through, you know, uh through your help again through uh my leadership, my experience and the benefit of how Haskell could be a premier institution for in the country. It sounds like we live in similar families and I've found that Mama Bear is usually right as well.
▶ 0:57:35Um, what administrative issues Haskell and Cippy face that u tribal colleges colleges and universities don't face? Well, you know, working for a tribal college for years for about eight years, you know, and my dad being a president for one for 12 years, you know, I I was very fortunate to really hone in on on how do you um govern or administer a tribal college and there's challenges and I tell you tribal colleges across our country are very unique in how they they
▶ 0:58:05administer their funds. you know, where they get their funds from, whether it's, you know, through these hallways or private funds or foundations or private partnerships with with private sector. Um, but they they do amazing jobs across the country on how we obtain and and sustain federal funding and other funding sources. So, these are the unique things I think the as far as a business model goes that other colleges should be looking at. But the bottom line for our colleges, it's affordability.
▶ 0:58:33You know, that's one reason I went to Haskell because it was affordable. You know, I was, you know, my parents did well here and there, but you know, it was very affordable. So, if you look at across all of India country, the TCUs that we call, they're very affordable. Um, and um, they fit home. They fit me as a as a Lakota, as a Ishanab man, you know, because they provide a a uh a more of a uh um cultural focus of who I am as a as a Native American. So, those things are really important to me.
▶ 0:59:02um as a Native American man that I kind of fit home. Eventually, you get your two years done or you transfer, which I did, you know, finish off my two years graduate school and so forth. But, uh again, I I really applaud what uh tribal colleges are doing, Haskell City, and how they, you know, fund things and uh ultimately provide education settings for uh students across the country. Yeah. So, there's been some discussion about the Great American Outdoors Act, which I hope we can work together to to reauthorize that.
▶ 0:59:31We're coming up on the fifth year of uh of that piece of legislation and the um although Congress created that program uh no funds were utilized by Haskell or Cippy under the previous administration. How does this administration plan to tackle the crumbling infrastructure at the two institutions using GAOA funding? Another great question, sir.
▶ 0:59:57Uh I think that's one thing that you know Secretary Bergam and I who did a lot of work when he was governor you know his his eight years at the state I worked for him for six you know when we worked with the tribal colleges back home is trying to be uh innovative ways of funding you know we legislated a lot of state dollars to tribal colleges back home you know through workforce development as we know across America we we all need good jobs and where are we going to get good jobs from from you know educational um settings graduates you know uh whether it's nursing in, you know,
▶ 1:00:27truck driving, sometimes oil services, energy services, uh, on and on. Uh, but tribal colleges do a great job of of, uh, preparing, uh, our students for the next level. But I think you know being innovative with those programs through that funding source and I'm not really privy to how that works on um through the uh that uh funding source but looking at that those ways with you uh with my help uh of looking at different funding pots funding buckets and how we can sustain and long-term fund
▶ 1:00:58you know tribal college and hasll in in the long I'm out of time. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman, the gentleman from California, Mr. Don S, is recognized for his five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Mr. Davis, thank you for telling us the story of you going back to your college days. Um, let me talk a little bit about the bureau's involvement in accreditation. Um, you are involved.
▶ 1:01:28This provides for a level of oversight both financially and career development and making sure that all the things you've talked about actually are realized by students. So how is the bureau involved with accreditation of the schools? A very good question.
▶ 1:01:41And uh sir uh yeah accreditation um I never been directly involved in accreditation but I know a little bit or enough to to um to understand it but you know I go back to governance whether you're the president vice president the dean uh your board of regents your your your u you know I also served as a uh on a board of a college back home so decisions is very important how you how you govern your your your school system and that all relates to to to u uh the higher education um
▶ 1:02:11accreditation. Um so obviously there's there's checks and balances that every every higher education institution across America including our TCUs have to follow and making sure that those are followed uh with transparency with good standing and so forth too. So uh from my my seat I'm very I'm going to watch that very uh intensely.
▶ 1:02:32Um, I'll probably I rarely do I micromanage, but I see myself micromanaging a lot of these processes from from start till finish here in the in the coming years. So, I'm going to be very involved in that accreditation process. To answer your question, one of the challenges in California that we've faced is because of the diversity in our UC and CSU and community college districts is making sure there's culturally competent staff, administrators, particularly teachers.
▶ 1:03:00And how are we doing as far as you you know on that aspect of making sure the young people who go through these schools are using their knowledge and their you unique perspective to make sure that um young people in this environment feel like they are being listened to without uh any kind of biases but an appreciation of continuing the cultural um benefits that we get from these young people. Absolutely.
▶ 1:03:27You know, I think I look back at my mom, you know, who went to dental school there back in the day and, you know, there's still a high big need for uh, you know, healthc care in the country and Haskell was was and I hope, you know, maybe through this process again, we can elevate Haskell as another health care um, academia for uh, dental or other health care services for in the country. Um, but back then predominately a lot of those teachers back then were non-native.
▶ 1:03:53You know, fasttrack now, you know, to when I was at school Even back in the 80s, you know, probably 99% of my teachers were were native. You know, they're probably alumni and my coaches were all native and uh and they're from all over the country. So, I was very I felt at home. I felt secure when I when so when I felt that way, I I achieved I I did well.
▶ 1:04:13You know, my grades weren't weren't the best at times like most kids, but uh but I you know, I performed well with academics and um and uh my athletics, you know, because I felt at home. So that obviously continues, you know, and that's the nice thing about, you know, when you graduate from Haskell or TCU, you know, you're you're taught to come back and help your community and give back to your your troubled people, you know, as a teacher or a coach or what have you. So that's terrific.
▶ 1:04:39Well, hopefully stay engaged in development as you just articulated how important that is for us as a country that we get the value of that perspective um for the whole country, but we preserve that heritage as well. So well spoken. I want to ask you a question about Southwestern Indian poly techchnic institute its efforts to broaden and get more young people into STEM. Again in Northern California where I'm from we put a lot of effort into this.
▶ 1:05:06Uh sort of the curve has changed a little bit particularly on the technology side and employment but on engineering as a member of the transportation infrastructure committee it's a constant challenge to get enough engineers. uh and specifically back to the previous question engineers that represent America in a diverse perspective. So the efforts at uh at CP to CIP to get more young people to go into STEM programs. Can you comment on that and your involvement?
▶ 1:05:35Yeah, I'm a uh sir, I'm a big believer in STEM. I'm a big big believer in polytech. Um uh I know we have a couple of those in institutions back home in Bismar. Uh United Tribes is one of those. Um, you know, I haven't I've yet to make my rounds to Sippy, you know, like I visited Haskell.
▶ 1:05:51So, it's definitely on my high priority list just to visit, you know, for me personally, I have to really see and feel, you know, when I talk to the president, the leadership, the students, and just the environment of the buildings and infrastructure and most importantly the programming, you know, of what uh CPS consisted uh consists of. So, those things I'm going to be looking forward to here in the very very near future. Thank you, Mr. Davis. I've got two seconds left, so I'll yield back. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr.
▶ 1:06:20Grothman is is recognized for his five minutes. Thank Well, one of the themes of our education committee is that perhaps too many people are going to college and not getting a skills-based education which could lead to more job security and a higher salary.
▶ 1:06:47Um, say with regard to Haskell, uh, what are the majors there that are most common among kids graduating from Haskell? Great question. I know I I I should know this by heart now because we were going over these these things with my daughters uh of what they wanted to be. I know one they have a very uh robust environmental science program there. I know they have uh areas of um of uh athletic training there.
▶ 1:07:14I know there's another one and obviously a business degree and so forth. Uh a number of two-year co uh two-year degrees as well uh if you want to just get to your associates like I did. Uh but I know the the number of those degree programs have really flourished over the years. There's been increases uh I would say the last couple years uh enrollment has increased over 30%. I know that a record graduation when I was there around 161 graduates which was a a big turnout uh good to see but for for for good reasons.
▶ 1:07:44Uh contrary to what we're experienced here in the past with some of these reports and very disturbing news, uh um Pasco's growing. Casc's growing, you know, and it's a growing in a in a in a in a in a good way. But I think again it's it's important uh what we're doing here today is making sure that that's progressing in a good way. It's stable.
▶ 1:08:05It's got its rights, checks and balances, you know, that I'm gonna micromanage through through my seat and u making sure that um you know it's a safe environment for all students that attend there. Okay. I I know around the country and it's good that enrollment is going up around the country. I think colleges are having a problem and that there's a a demographic dip now.
▶ 1:08:28I know since I got this job, we've had two universities, private universities in Wisconsin fail in part because of just lack of students and and somebody had to go under. Uh when I look here, it looks like Kansas has over 20 universities that offer four-year degrees of some nature.
▶ 1:08:46And given the wellocumented problems here today, uh I I wondered why would somebody go to Haskell, you know, when when you don't have these uh concerns appearing in the paper? Um why do you think Haskell should I guess continue to exist given we have so many other colleges in Kansas that don't have these problems? Great question, sir. Very good question.
▶ 1:09:17You know, I can only look at myself and potentially even my daughters. You know, um one, it's a challenge. You know, some of us want to go away after college, right? We we're this young kid and we're going to move to the cities and at least us uh you know, rural rural uh families, you know, come from the res and so forth. Um so, one is a challenge. Two for me was you it was because of my family. Uh my mom and dad went there, my mom did, you know, so that's historic. It's tradition.
▶ 1:09:44Um, secondly is that you want to go to a place where you're safe. Um, I know some of the colleges here in town, uh, that are historically black colleges. You know, I think there is a reason for that. Um, I'm not obviously, uh, African-American. Uh, but I think there's some culture things to that. Certainly, same with us, you know, why we want to go to a tribal college or a place like Sapior Haskell because it's a home away from home where you feel safe and you're you're around uh, your Native American relatives.
▶ 1:10:13So that's the tradition that for us is very very important culturally. Um secondly is just to get an education and probably lastly is affordability. You know where when I grew up um you know things were tough. You know mom and dad they worked hard like everybody else. U but affording especially in today's and I'm sure you you address that quite a bit. The the the cost in higher education you know it's skyrocketing. How much how much is the average debt per graduate of uh Haskell?
▶ 1:10:43I'm not sure about the debt, but roughly it's about 16 to $1,700 to attend a full year at which is which is a you know, in today's age, uh it's it's phenomenal to to get a full education with that. How much is the total tuition for 16 to $1,700 per year? 16 to That's very reasonable. Um I guess one measure of success of a university is how many kids graduate? I think they say within six years. Do you know of the kids who started as school?
▶ 1:11:13How many grad percentage wise how many graduate in six years? Yeah. Uh good great question again on the data sets on that sir. Uh but you know we looked at some in general since Haskell in its inception back in the day towards that now roughly around you know 10 to 12,000 graduates since its inception back in the day. I mean percentage-wise of the kids who say six years ago began at Haskell, how many get their degree within six years? Oh, I see. I understand. Sorry, Mr.
▶ 1:11:43And question. Yeah, the graduation rate on that I would say, you know, I would estimate it's anywhere from 60 to, you know, 80% that graduate from that who start and finish. Okay. I think the gentleman whose time has expired. The gentleman from Puerto Rico, Mr.
▶ 1:11:59Hernandez is now Oh, how do these go? No. Um, come right up to this one right here.
▶ 1:12:30All of yours are blinking, right? Oh, come up here. You in my chair. Seriously, get up here. They have better water in this Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your generosity. It's definitely definitely a different view from here.
▶ 1:13:02Um, and now as chair, do I have the authority of the chair so that I can decide a few matters? Uh thank you Mr. Davis for being here today. Uh for many native communities, education is inseparable for cultural survival. Tribal colleges and Indian country schools are not just places of learning. They are the heart of our communities where language, tradition, and identity are nurtured and passed to the next generation.
▶ 1:13:30As we discuss educational policies, it is essential we recognize these institutions as vital stewards of culture and sovereignty. With that in mind, I'd like to ask, tribal colleges and schools often operate in rural or underserved areas where cultural traditions remain deeply How does the department plan to enhance support for these institutions to not only provide academic success but also foster cultural continuity and community
▶ 1:14:02Great question, sir. Um, you're I really echo your sentiments. You know, I look at our tribal colleges again, I because I came from one. My dad was a president for a number of years. Uh, they certainly are the heartbeat the they're the cornerstone of a lot of tribal communities, tribal nations across uh very supported uh ran very very uh uh they're they're ran and governed in a very stable way. Um I've always valued every tribal college president that I've worked with over the years.
▶ 1:14:31In fact, I'll have the privilege of speaking to a number of the tribal colleges here in the next month on on on some issues. But they they always have my support. Um because I've told many of them when I retire hopefully many years ago uh I'm going to go back to a tribal college and teach you know give back whether it's teaching a government class or you know mopping floors or cutting grass like Forest Gump I don't know but I'm going to give back you know and that's my goal uh when I retire is to go back to a tribal college um I'm looking forward to that many years from now though but you know make
▶ 1:15:01no doubt that tribal colleges Haskell Mississippi you know the colleges where I come from are cornerstones uh for for Indian country because of those are places. In fact, we were just out in Chief Dull Knife College in Lame Deere here about a month or two ago. And again, you talk about the innovation of how they raised money, how they support uh um you know, local communities with jobs um and also the buyin from local communities around there on teachers, you know, and professionals that want to teach there.
▶ 1:15:31So, you know, it's you have to have a strong heart, a very strong good sense of your spirit to be a teacher. you got to really care on on on what you're doing with those tribal colleges. So, I see that all the time with our tribal colleges across America and um working with you, with Congress, you know, through our office, through through our leadership together, I think we can continue to build together, you know, uh a better and and and greater community for these tribal colleges across America. Great. Thank you.
▶ 1:15:59And universities and tribal colleges in Indian country are more than educational institutions. They are guardians of language, tradition, and cultural resilience. How does the Department of the Interior support these schools in fulfilling this vital role? And what further steps can be taken to strengthen their capacity as centers of cultural Again, partnerships, uh, you know, honoring our treaties, you know, honoring our sovereignties as as many you are privy to, you know, our treaties across uh, every tribe.
▶ 1:16:28You're always going to hear that from me and from our tribal leaders that honor our treaties. And that one big one is education, you know, providing the resources and funding, you know, through administrations, through Congress, uh, through various agencies, you know, and how do we do that? How do we work together on those things? So, I know you'll see a number of tribal college presidents that come through these hallways.
▶ 1:16:47You know, they they talk with you, they meet with you, but honoring those treaties through our land, water resources, uh ultimately u honing and and providing leadership uh experiences and um and avenues for you know, up and cominging leaders. You know, I I look at myself like never in my experience as a high school graduation that I'd be sitting here, you know, in this position. I was, you know, wanted to be a coach and teacher like my dad, you know, simply. Uh, but for some reason, I'm here, um, doing the best I can.
▶ 1:17:16But I also look at, you know, the graduates that that I've experienced over my time, you know, a lot many of them are are tribal leaders. They're tribal chairs. They're they're seated on council seats. Some of them are governors of their towns and and uh, cities, you know. So you have a high level of leadership that comes out of these tribal colleges including Haskell and Mississippi that are leading you know in the country you know in a in a better way.
▶ 1:17:39Um and we all face challenges like I said you know through history and time but uh you know we have this resiliency of our people this sense of strong of of a strong spirit uh we as people in uh seeing these things through. Um so again just looking forward to supporting tribal colleges. I always will um always have and look forward to doing more. Thank you. And I agree with the importance of honoring our treaties.
▶ 1:18:03I think it's important that the United States government and Congress do more to respect tribal nations sovereignty as well as the sovereignty, autonomy, and self-government of all US territories, Commonwealths, and free associated states. With that, I yield back. from Georgia, Mr. Collins, for your five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr.
▶ 1:18:34Davis, thank you for for being here today. Um, you know, I'd like to tell people a little bit about who I am first before I get to to talking about things. This is my second term up here, uh, starting my second term, and and it has been stated multiple times. We've had a number of hearings on BIE and and some of the things that we've seen going on in our our Bureau of Indian Education and uh I want to tell you what I've seen.
▶ 1:18:59I've seen a lot of failure, you know, whether it be just and and the school being dilapidated, whether the education is not there or whether it's misconduct, criminal activity. It seems like we've seen the gamut of of problems. And but I've also seen success stories.
▶ 1:19:16uh you take like the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians and how they have taken over a lot of of of their own destiny and how they're educating those kids and and uh bringing them back into their culture and it's uh it's exciting to see that. You know, I'm I'm a small businessman and uh I've been in the private sector all my entire career really and the way I look at things is pretty simple.
▶ 1:19:42I like to look at where we have successes and how do we replicate that throughever whatever we're looking at and then if we have problems what is the problem what is the solution and how do we make sure that that never happens again and that's kind of where I want to focus today is you know you can talk about money but you can also talk about management and and what you're seeing on that area so back in 2018 I launched an investigation into SIPA over a manager at the school who had engaged in sexual misconduct and harassment ment.
▶ 1:20:12The results of the OIG's investigation found that neither SIPA or BIE had a policy prohibiting sexual relationships between faculty and students. Now, since this investigation, has BIE developed a policy prohibiting such relationships? Yes, sir, they have. Why was there no policy in place prohibiting sexual relationships between faculty and students? Yeah, you know, uh, sir, uh, great question again.
▶ 1:20:41Um, something that, you know, I just shake my head at, you know, I just don't understand why, um, you know, I'm not, you know, one to look in the past, you know, too much, but, you know, through through our my leadership, through my direction, you know, these things are going to have already been, you know, uh, implemented or being worked on. What what protections are in place?
▶ 1:21:02So, we're looking at uh just working with our BIE staff, leadership, HR, all those processes of uh sexual harassment, uh background checks, uh making sure everybody's vetted, whether you're uh a schoolboard member, uh your governance, you're a president, teacher, faculty, coach, all those things are being uh highly vetted and uh looking at little strong policies, making sure they're implemented. I want I want to go to that real quick. uh the background checks.
▶ 1:21:29You know, last year when our committees met to discuss Haskell, former president uh Dr. Ronald Graham highlighted that Haskell failed to perform background checks, which saw three regents failed their tests and allowed a convicted felon to serve on the board. Uh what steps has the department taken or is planning to take to ensure background checks are carried out? Yeah, that's another concerning one for me uh that I just kind of shake my head at, sir. Uh but again, you know, though all those uh background checks, policies are being implemented as we speak. All right.
▶ 1:21:59You uh since you're doing that, I'm I'm sure you're going to be able to keep uh Congress and this committee appraised of your progress on implementing that. Absolutely. Thank you. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. I thank the gentleman from Georgia, the gentle gentle lady, the ranking member from workforce committee is now recognized. Thank you, Mr. chairman and uh thank you Mr. Davis for your testimony and let me say that I want to commend you for the successes that you've had.
▶ 1:22:29Um in 1965, Congress passed the Higher Education Act as part of Lyndon B. Johnson's war on poverty uh to expand higher education access to low and middle inome students. And although more lowincome students and native students enroll in college now more than ever, the enrollment rates of these students still lag behind those of their peers.
▶ 1:22:54Our tribal colleges and universities, which have long served students who've had to overcome more than their fair share, historic disinvestment, generational trauma, and underfunded schools. These students don't just show up to learn. they show up to carry forward a legacy. And so let me start here. Mr.
▶ 1:23:15Davis, uh can you share with us what kind of impact completing a college degree has on students who attend tribal colleges and universities and what about the impact on their families and and the greater native community? Well, madam, that's a great question. Um thank you for the history lesson, too, on that. Um appreciate that uh impact. um you're probably looking at one. Uh I started out, you know, I'm not a, you know, bright student. I just worked hard.
▶ 1:23:45you know, I was a probably a B+ student, give or take, but you know, working hard and given the opportunity to to excel in in a space that was for me safe, you know, that was culturally uh where I was surrounded by my relatives. And I always say relatives as as any country, we well consider ourselves relatives, whether you're Navajo or Clinket or or Seol or for my case, Lakota. But when you're in a good space like that, you're you're you're going to do well. And I felt felt that when I was at Haskell.
▶ 1:24:13I felt that when I was at home at Turtle Mountain Community College um community school. I felt that. And so in those areas I you know you succeed because you you you you feel you feel good about who you are. Compound that with um you know cultural teachings, language, uh culture, all those things. Um you know we never had that you know early on.
▶ 1:24:34And those are the things my dad fought for as a superintendent uh as an administrator is that we can't continue to teach this old archaic way of math and science and reading and math and and we still do that, you know, but to incorporate, you know, a cultural language was uh was one reason why I succeeded, you know, in those adventures. Well, well, thank you very much.
▶ 1:24:54I I certainly can identify with that as a a graduate twice of a historically black college and university that has some of similar issues in terms of infrastructure and so forth, but but you made it clear uh why it's important for the federal government to invest in these schools. Uh can you share uh just uh briefly how the administration believes that the impact of TCUs would continue with a near 90% funding cut uh as the president requested in his budget?
▶ 1:25:23Yeah, again, as I mentioned earlier on my testimony, you know, there are budget proposals out there. Um, you know, again, those are things that obviously you as Congress members, you know, uh go through daily uh enter into your budget cycles and so forth, too. And this is no different. You know, aside from uh what's being proposed, you know, in the in the current budget, uh tribal colleges, I know they're they're very active in in in um I'll say maybe lobbying is the the appropriate word here.
▶ 1:25:51uh as they you know asked for more funding you know that's always continued. My my dad did years and years of that you know as a tribal college president he spent a lot of time out here you know uh advocating for you know and showing showcasing um you know the results uh like the students I think that were behind me you know he had bring a lot of the tribal college students here on showcasing their their academic achievements and again you know looking at those appropriations and keeping uh those funds going. Okay.
▶ 1:26:18So, so what I'm hearing from students and presidents is is clear that TCUs are already being asked to do the impossible and now we're telling them to to to continue to do that without heat, without roofs, and in some cases without food on campuses. In 2024, ProPolypica released a damning report highlighting the failures of the federal government to fully fund tribal colleges and universities.
▶ 1:26:44And so the lack of financial hazards to address pipes bursting, ceilings falling, student cafeterias closing for entire entire semesters. And Mr. Chairman, I ask unan unanimous consent to enter this report uh into the record without objection. So order. So Mr. Davis, is there something that you've seen with Haskell or Sippy? Uh what are some of of their current infrastructure challenges? Yeah, great question again, ma'am.
▶ 1:27:11Um I think you know for us as as in country nothing's impossible. We just have to find you know innovative ways to keep you know our funding sources available. And again I I did years of that and yes we got some federal funding. Yes we got some state funding. Yes we got some private funding but you know we got to continue that's just kind of how in the country is you know um but I think uh sometimes the being dependent sometimes on on federal funding it es flows. You know, we all know that. You as appropriators know that.
▶ 1:27:41Uh there there's some years where you get a lot of funding, some years you don't. It just that's nothing new to us. So looking forward of being more innovative and uh giving us the leverage to to govern ourselves uh through our sovereignty models as I think is the best approach on that. Well, thank you for your work and thank you for your commitment and so we'll look forward to you addressing the longstanding infrastructure challenges of tribal colleges and the work that you're doing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you, gentle lady.
▶ 1:28:09The next next I recognize a gentleman from Kansas, Tra, Mr. Man, for his five Thank you, Chairman Gosar and Owens, and thank you for holding this important joint hearing today and and for allowing me to wave on to this committee. Um, thank you, Mr. Davis, for being here.
▶ 1:28:26I represent the big first district of Kansas and while I do not serve on either of these committees, Haskell Indian Nations University is in my district, these concerns are serious and is imperative that Congress gets to work on muchneeded improvements at both Haskell and Sippy. Established in 1884 by federal legislation aimed to fulfill the United States treaty and trust obligations to provide a highquality education to American Indians.
▶ 1:28:52Haskell is the only tribal university in the country with an entirely indigenous population. As alumnist, I know you know that full well full well. It is a one-of-a-kind historic and invaluable institution. However, and and let me be clear when it comes to Haskell, the US Department of the Interior and the Bureau of Indian Education have repeatedly dropped the ball. Years of mismanagement, lack of oversight, and cycles of misconduct have all compounded and led us to yet another hearing.
▶ 1:29:22I look forward to hearing from you today on how President Trump and administration plan on giving these issues the attention that has been lacking and providing solutions to finally write some of these wrongs. Um, and Mr. Mr. Davis, thank you again for being here. Do you believe that the BIE can realistically handle postsecary tribal education given the lack of lack of success in managing only two Yeah, Congressman, great question.
▶ 1:29:48Um, thank you for your leadership as uh your your membership as a leadership in Congress for the district and including uh Lawrence and and Haskell. Um, great question on on how we how my office um, you know, operates uh, our school systems. Uh, it's kind of twofolded. Some some areas we do very well and we do very well with the support from tribes, the local tribes, you know, tribal uh, leadership's involved.
▶ 1:30:16U, in fact, we we'd rather see tribes uh, operate their own schools um, self-governance in models. But in cases like Haskell and Cippi, it's a different unique business model or a governance model in which it requires some oversight from the federal. Obviously, we haven't been doing a good job of that, you know, and that's why one big reason why I came to this office when asked by Secretary Bergam is how do we figure out Haskell? How do we figure out uh these school systems?
▶ 1:30:41From your experience working alongside tribes, how has providing opportunities for tribal communities to be in a greater position of authority over matters such as their education led to better outcomes for students? That that's a good another great question. That's a decision that that tribal leaders uh that own and decide on whether or not they want to have their own tribal uh education systems. A lot of them do like the tribal colleges. Some do partnerships with the state. some do partnerships with the uh the procal schools, private schools, all the above.
▶ 1:31:11But, you know, it's given us a a a a broader sense of school choice. You know, I know school choice has been brought up uh a lot here in in the last year or so, but you know, over the years, we've been able to establish school choice through through higher education and our school systems um on reservations. I is the department open to a possible legislative solution to help students at Haskell? Absolutely. Well, Mr.
▶ 1:31:36Travis, I I just asked the last question because um and we discussed this before, but Senator Jerry Moran, also from Kansas, and I've been working on a legislative fix for Haskell. Our bill would transfer Haskell's governance from the BIE to the Has to a Haskell board of trustees, which would be formed through the legislation and consist of members nominated by the tribal communities. The university would be issued a charter and would still receive federal support.
▶ 1:32:01I urge my colleagues to support this bill and I hope that we can work together in a bipartisan fashion with the Department of Interior on this legislation and really help to get to a better place and be everything that it can be. You know, Haskell's in my district. Uh when you pull up and and and walk around campus, you're there for 15 seconds and realize that this institution is not what it should be and it should be a crown jewel.
▶ 1:32:28Um it is not a crown jewel today but I believe with some changes um some very important changes for more autonomy more self-governance um we we can get this um what could be a crown jewel to a much better place. We owe it um to to the students um to do that and I appreciate you being willing to be here today and again thank you uh Mr. Chairman for letting me wave on. Thank the gentleman from Kansas. The gentleman from Guam, Mr. Mland is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you Mr.
▶ 1:32:57Chairman, Mr. Davis, the bureau's A1B report really didn't do much there to uh show what's happening, good things happening. In fact, the investigation talked about the poor leadership, handling of sexual harassment, misconduct, bullying, and theft. So hopefully, I know there's some changes that have been made to HASCO as a result in the report. Talk about some of those changes that have been made. Yeah. Uh thank you for the question. Uh thank you for the concern.
▶ 1:33:26Again, like I reiterated earlier, you know, some of these reports I can't uh comment on. There's they're ongoing investigations, but you know, um again, I'm I'm extremely upset, you know, um and I just think that with your help, with collaboration, you know, we're going to turn the ship in the right direction. Um I'm very confident of that. you know, if it requires me to micromanage from time to time, I'll definitely do that because it's twofold.
▶ 1:33:53You know, for me sitting in this seat, but also alumni from there, I'm sure you as members of Congress, you come from institutions, you graduated from wherever you came from and if something was happening to your college, you probably would try to do something. I'm no different. So, these are things that are kind of personal to me uh because of uh where I came from and where I graduated from and how personally invested I am with Haskell.
▶ 1:34:16So, we're going to do all we can to make this make this right and so we don't have to sit here again a year from now and and talk about the same thing of the bad bad things that have happened and and those uh bad things and thank you for that by the way and those bad things that did happen uh when reported by the students. The university really didn't take uh good care of of the students and offering some care and support for those those folks. So hopefully we can do something uh in their concern to make it a better life for them there.
▶ 1:34:46Uh what levels of oversight will BIE uh exercise on on Haskell now to ensure that the college is held responsible uh for failure to follow these basic policies? Well, I think it all starts with leadership, sir. You know, leadership governance. you know, you I'm sure many of you in Congress sit on boards or been asked to serve on some type of capacity leadership because of who you are, your experience, and we're no different.
▶ 1:35:12you know, making sure that we're I'm held accountable, making sure there's transparency, making sure that we're following, you know, regulations and laws, whether it's federal or or tribal, what have you. However, this however we're going to create this this governance um process, but making sure that we're accountable uh to to our students uh to those families that want to come there and and uh get a good education. So, that's our commitment. I appreciate the commitment.
▶ 1:35:38Now we just got to build back the trust from these students uh in the aftermath of this of this report. So uh and speaking of that on the new interim president coming on in your conversations with the president, how's he planning to address these breaches of trust outlined in the report? Yeah. The first of all, I think the uh the outgoing president has another few weeks left, so he's not officially um u um uh left yet. So the interim I know Mr.
▶ 1:36:06Mackie Moore who I talked with uh just in general talking um I know he he's a he's a he's alumni there like myself. So again you have another person that's you know personally invested into that college. I've heard really good things about Mr. Mackie Moore. I know we have a process that we have to go through. Uh some of these government process I'm I'm getting used to them learning them as as I go on how people are selected how they apply and so forth too. So, but I'm excited, you know, for that process to to uh to kickstart.
▶ 1:36:35And again, I'll be I'll be watching that process very good, very closely and uh making sure that we have a very strong strong president either he or she, you know, that will be uh our next uh leader for Haskell in in the in the future. Thank you, Mr. Davis. I believe with your leadership and the new president coming on board, you this report, you can see where we can start and make all the improvements as possible. Please let us know how we can continue to help. Absolutely. It's it's a reset.
▶ 1:37:02I think again I as I stated before, you know, this is good timing. Uh unfortunately why we got to meet here again, but I think if we reset our minds, you know, our collective uh leadership skills here and really hone in on on the changes the the good changes coming to Haskell. Um I'm looking forward to that. Thank you, Mr. J. Uh Davis. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. I thank the gentleman. Gentleman from California, Mr. Conor is recognized for his five minutes.
▶ 1:37:32Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um Mr. Davis, uh we've heard that if Congress were to reduce the funding as the administration has proposed, tribal colleges would close. What is your response to that? Uh yeah, good great question. And as again I as I stated in my previous comments, you know, uh we've all been through funding's uh dips and highs and lows. As I mentioned before, I I worked for a tribal college for eight years. I was a development officer.
▶ 1:38:02I was an adjunct instructor. My dad was a tribal college president. So this is nothing new to us, you know. Um so as we continue continue to uh work together through my office in this seat uh looking at tribal college leaders u um uh tribal tribal leaders in general you know um um you know kind of lobbying you guys uh as they do every every um every cycle.
▶ 1:38:26These are the things that I think we all look at but contrary to that I think we look at other ways of how we fund tribal colleges whether it's state funding which I've which we did secretary and I uh Bergam did a tremendous job of getting state dollars to to tribal colleges also private funds you know uh foundations and I think these are things that hopefully some of this legislation this bill would would open the doors for a foundation like Haskell and other areas for funding. Thank you Mr. Davis. Mr.
▶ 1:38:54Chairman, I'd like to enter into the record this article entitled Trump wants to cut tribal college funding by nearly 90% putting them at risk of closing. Without objection, so ordered. So, Mr. Davis, you are an alum of Haskell Indian Nations University. You've also been an educator in BIE funded high schools.
▶ 1:39:16Um, but before I ask my question, I mean, 90% is a is a huge cut, I mean, do you not agree that it would that this cuts of this magnitude would mean tribal colleges would close many of them? Well, again, how can how can tribal college I mean, what other revenue do they have besides the federal government? Yeah, again, great question.
▶ 1:39:40And as I stated before, you know, the these changes, es and flows and and funding formulas throughout the country is nothing new to us. You know, I've spent a lot of time in my first, you know, two months. Respect. Isn't a 90% cut new? Have we ever had this kind of a cut before? Yeah. Like I said, I'm sorry to That would be That is new, is it not? A 90% cut is new. Yeah. I'm just making sure you're done, sir. Sure. Go ahead.
▶ 1:40:10Okay. Thank you. Yeah. No, like I said, you know, I've I've as a development officer, you know, raising money for my college, my dad being a tribal college president, you know, we've seen cuts for for years. We've seen, you know, receiving increases, you know, but I think that we as sovereign nations, tribal colleges, respectfully, Mr. Davis, is not a 90% cut new? Has have we ever experienced this before? That's a great question. I'm not certain on that. You're not? So, your answer is you're not certain. I'm not certain. Yes, sir. Okay.
▶ 1:40:39Um, and it would stand I mean would would would any co would would all of the colleges or tribal colleges survive a 90% cut? Wouldn't some of them just have to close? I I'm not certain on that, sir. That's a good question. I I don't know the finances of every tribal college in America. Okay. Let's put it the other way.
▶ 1:40:59Uh are you can you say to this committee that every one of the colleges that now exist the tribal colleges exist that they would be unharmed that that they would all stay open? I'm sure there'd be some direct impacts. I'm I'm certain of that. But again, moving forward, you know, in this time of resetting, you know, uh funding formulas, uh looking at how governance uh uh models are used for tribal colleges for particular has. That's what I'm focused on today.
▶ 1:41:28Well, which which college, you know, which colleges would be most likely to close first under this 90% cut? Like I stated before, sir, I'm not privy to every tribal college's finances or budget situations. Okay. Well, um uh I'm highly troubled by this proposed 90% cut. Um well, I'm proud to represent Sherman Indian High School, which is a BIE run school.
▶ 1:41:54Sherman and many other BIA schools struggle with staff recruitment and retention and the reductions in force that the Trump administration has enacted would uh have worsened the problem by cutting dedicated staff at the schools and at the BIA. Can you describe the impact that inadequate staffing has on BIA's ability to conduct proper oversight of these schools? Another great question, sir. Yeah.
▶ 1:42:20So the, you know, the the staff cuts, the deferred uh uh retirement plans, they all have run the course. Fortunately, through my leadership and through uh I'll say um um you know providing uh education or orientation to how Indian education is is ran throughout in the country. We're able to get those a lot of those positions exempt or are or are or are um walked back, I'll say.
▶ 1:42:45So that's kind of where we're at through a lot of those educational systems, but places like where you come from from Sherman School, familiar with that. I'll be visiting one in Riverside this this uh this Friday uh on their graduation efforts. But um again, looking at collectively how can we work together through my office through your through your seats on sustainable funding and governance um processes for for these schools across the country. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry I ran over. I yield back. You're up. Gentleman from Montana, Mr.
▶ 1:43:15Daning is be recognized for his five minutes. Uh Mr. Chairman, uh thank you for holding this important hearing and uh thank you for allowing me to wave on. And Mr. Davis, thank you for being here. Uh I represent Montana's second district and uh came out of education. So something that I I think about a lot. um in student student safety must be the foundation of any successful educational environment.
▶ 1:43:42Given the troubling history of criminal activity and mismanagement at Haskell, what steps is the department taking to improve crime crime prevention and campus security both in terms of physical infrastructure and institutional accountability? Great question, sir. Again, as I reiterated early on, you know, this is a very concerning, very upsetting, very appalled, you know, that these things have happened.
▶ 1:44:05Um, but as we speak, I can assure you that these policies, procedures, um, you know, the governance pro processes for these schools that under my leadership are all being addressed. Thank you. Given the direct appropriations and federal operation of Haskell and the Southwest Indian Polytechnic Institute, um, transparency and stewardship of federal dollars is critical. Can you speak about what the department is doing to improve financial Great question.
▶ 1:44:34You know, from experience, you know, when I would raise money, whether it's federal dollars or state dollars or private dollars, I made sure that as a development officer working for a tribal college that I was very on task with reporting mechanisms, uh you know, your audits on and on. So, these things are are at least through my um uh control are going to be very uh micromanaged moving forward. So, are new tracking or reporting systems being developed to avoid the kind of waste and abuse uh we've seen in the past? Absolutely. Like like I stated before, I haven't read every report.
▶ 1:45:04Um, you know, I think I've read enough to be concerned, but moving forward, all those things will be uh addressed. So, another uh topic, graduation rates at both Haskell and the Southwest Indian Poly Techchnic u are are big concern, especially given the promise these schools hold for native students. So what efforts are underway to boost student success whether through academic support uh program modernization or partnerships with tribal communities? Yeah, great question again sir. I think it's all the above.
▶ 1:45:35you know, as a parent with young uh you know, uh daughters who who are in college and one want to go to college, looking at those programs, you know, uh workforce development, I mean, know as most kids nowadays, if you have them uh like I do, you know, they change their mind, you know, from week to week that one day they want to be a business uh a business owner of some the other one they want to be a teacher.
▶ 1:45:57So making sure and the and the tribal colleges do a great job of providing you know a flexibility of array of degree programs offered to uh students across the country. Thank you. Have you heard from tribal leaders uh or students about deteriorating deteriorating campus facilities? Yeah that's always a question even when I was uh working as a development officer you know our I'll use example of our gymnasium you know was built when I was a kid uh when my dad was there as a as a dean of students.
▶ 1:46:25uh that gym still there, you know, could it be could it be used for another another uh bigger gym? Yeah, absolutely. So, those are uh priorities of capital campaigns that are being worked on with federal dollars, private dollars or other other funding mechanisms. I appreciate that because I I know that um BIE operates on a pretty tight budget and I just want to understand what can be done in the short term to address what I see as urgent maintenance and housing concerns.
▶ 1:46:51Um under the great American outdoor outdoors act the legacy restoration fund was created to address deferred maintenance across federal facilities. Now given the wellocumented infrastructural challenges at both Haskell and um uh Southwest Indian poly techchnic why has the BIE not selected either of these institutions for any LRF funded projects to date? You know that's another great question. I I don't know the answer to that.
▶ 1:47:18Uh but looking in how the the great American outdoor act uh which is I I I still scratch my head how how that funds tribal colleges when I think of outdoors I'm thinking of forest forest and outdoors lakes and streams and stuff and how that pertains to tribal college. I'm not sure certain on that. But if that's a way how you know you as Congress funds that great. Uh but other ways what what other ways or what other acts can we look at to provide sustainable funding for tribal colleges.
▶ 1:47:46I I would I would respectfully urge you to look at that as well. Yeah. Thank you. Uh I appreciate you being here. Appreciate your responses. Uh Mr. Chair, thank you for allowing me to wave on in on that. I yield back. Gentlemen is recognized. Thank you very much. And now the chair recognizes the gentleoman from Washington, Miss Randall, for her five Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Davis, for your testimony.
▶ 1:48:10Um, you know, as M colleague here said, um, BIE already operates on a a pretty tight budget and, um, you know, you just mentioned now looking for additional um potential acts for additional revenue, sustainable revenue.
▶ 1:48:30And I I'm wondering if you think that you can keep the commitment that you have made and I know that you are um strongly in support of of addressing the issues at Haskell to make that institution so much better and to rise to the expectations. Can you do that while also facing a 90% cut to the budget for schools that's in the president's budget proposal?
▶ 1:49:01Yeah, like I stated before, ma'am, that's a those are great questions. I really thank you for your concern on that. But, you know, this as I stated before, you know, this is nothing new to the country. You know, as a former development officer, you know, adjunct constructor, you know, uh raising money, um we've seen the the dips and the highs and lows of funding, you know, for a long time. uh my dad my dad being a college president for 12 years you know I I worked hand inand with him on a lot of those things.
▶ 1:49:27So um but we feel confident, you know, that some of these fundings will will restored in some way mechanism because tribal college presidents, tribal leaders do a great job, you know, of working the hill, doing their thing, uh as you probably see them in the hallways every week, you know, they're very excellent at that. They're they're they're very professional at what they do. So, but it's one thing to give a dollar for obvious reasons, but also looking at, you know, what's the return on those dollars when you look at the graduates? um even utilizing myself.
▶ 1:49:56You know, obviously I graduated a long time ago, but I think there's a little bit of success in some of that. You know, I think I've tried my best to be something in in in my in my life and maybe be an example to somebody, you know, cuz I've had that growing up. You know, my mentors, you know, who went to tribal colleges or some only made it to eth grade, you know, those are my mentors, you know, uh some had degrees. My dad was a got his doctorate degree, you know, through some help through programming, federal programming, you know, at Penn State um uh university.
▶ 1:50:26Um so these are the things I've I've well aware, but sometimes you have to mold and shape and be innovative on how we we fund uh our schools across America. Yeah, thank you so much, Mr. Davis, for that answer. I I've watched um you know, the tribal leaders in my district do more with less time and again.
▶ 1:50:47I I worry though that that is not um living up to our treaty obligation to ask tribal nations over and over and over again to do more with less. Um, I also am a fellow university development officer, um, and a former chair of the higher education and workforce development committee in the Washington State Senate and and know that we have, um, very very very low uh, admission rates
▶ 1:51:17uh, and retention rates and graduation rates for Native American students across the country. And there are a lot of things um that many uh states around the country as well as many Indian colleges have been doing to try and increase those numbers.
▶ 1:51:34Um what I have found in my experience is that um sometimes the hardest to reach students are also the more most expensive to reach and support because the the things that work for every other student don't always work for the students that we're not already reaching.
▶ 1:51:49So, I'm at facing a 90% cut to um the budget as suggested in the president's budget proposal tells me that there's not the investment in those students that they deserve. And I wonder, you know, what you think a 90% cut says to native students who are considering college. You mentioned your family story.
▶ 1:52:18you have, you know, you and your father have both done incredible work. You mentioned that your your dad was able to complete his degree because of federal funding at a in you know at his institute graduate institution and um as we are seeing funds cut over and over and over again not only um at the department of Indian education but also the department of education broadly.
▶ 1:52:43How what message does that send to students who are worried about whether or not college is for them? Well, like I stated before, ma'am, um you know, it's nothing new. You know, we've been through the es and flows of funding and with Congress for a long time. Um and I've talked to a lot of uh older leaders, college presidents who've retired. You know, we we we we become innovative. You know, we're we're resilient.
▶ 1:53:08you know, we find ways and we always will find ways to provide that funding mechanism, whether it's working the hill, you know, uh through our leadership, working through my office, working uh directly with you as in support of each other and how we find, you know, long-term funding mechanisms, formulas for for areas. I even refer to this, you know, the Great American Outdoor Act. I mean, I I was never knew that was out there for uh funding, you know. Um you know, again, encouraging you as Congress to look at other acts that are out there possibly for for long-term funding.
▶ 1:53:39So, so again, I think we just like we always do in the country, we we put our nose to the to the grindstoneone and we just work hard and uh we put that in prayer and um and we we produce good outcomes, you know. So, these are just uh the continued ways how we how we conduct educational systems in the country. So I look forward to do to continue that working that doing everything I can within my power within my seat to do that and I and I hope you would urge you to do the same. Thank you.
▶ 1:54:07I thank the gentle lady and the gentleman from Florida Mr. Fine is recognized for his five minutes. Thank you Mr. Chairman and and I appreciate us having this hearing today. long time ago uh before I got into politics, I worked with over a hundred tribes in my life uh with a different business that involved the pulling of levers and the clinking of of coins.
▶ 1:54:27So uh so I I've had the privilege of visiting many Indian nations around the country and most of the states where they exist and seeing some of the unique challenges that they have and so it's an issue that's important to me and I was proud to be able to help some of our tribes create more economic self-sufficiency through that. Um, but I I do have some questions. I didn't know, frankly, about um that these institutions even existed until I started to prepare for this hearing. I I just got elected to Congress a couple of months ago.
▶ 1:54:52And and my question is I read all of this and my question is why do you think the Biden administration cared so little about these Indian students that it didn't actually take action? Because it seems like there's clearly been problems at these institutions for a long time. Just why why didn't they care about these Indian students? Uh great question. Uh sir, I I I I I don't know.
▶ 1:55:14I came on board here, you know, on March 13th, um asked by uh Secretary Bergam, my former boss as governor, and one of the questions we first had in in our in our um exchange was, you know, how do we look at education systems in particular BIE, knowing that some of these I I didn't know at the time that some of these reports are out, but now I know what I know. Um, you know, again, you know, we're here very concerning so forth.
▶ 1:55:39But, um, I can't answer the question of what the previous administrations did uh, years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I can only control what's in my space. And my commitment to my people and my relatives is how do we provide a safe educational environment for good outcomes and graduation levels for for students across any country? Well, I just ask moving forward, you know, you can't fix problems in the future if you don't know why they happened in the past. an interesting look into why it just didn't matter to the folks there to try to solve this problem.
▶ 1:56:08Um, a question though about solutions. Um, I looked up the budget of the Institute of Haskell. It's about I think the president's asked for $22 million. I did the basic math. 700 students. That's about 31 $32,000 a year for a student. If they graduate in four years, it's a So that's a a substantial amount of money. And I sometimes think outside the box.
▶ 1:56:32Would would we be better off I'm just interested in your perspective in taking 700 students coming from reservations and saying look here's to go to any college that you want in the United States. I mean might that we can try to fix all of these problems or we can just say here's a scholarship take it to the University of Kansas or the University of Florida. It's certainly a lot less than $120,000 to get a degree at the University of Florida which is near where I represent.
▶ 1:57:01Have you have you thought about alternatives to just should the government be in the university business or would we be better off taking the money and giving students choice and where to take it? Yeah, I I appreciate how you think outside the box because that's exactly what tribal colleges and tribal nations do. Some uh maybe where you come from in Florida, some have uh tribes that have uh maybe a little bit more uh through obviously maybe gaming. Sounds like where you came from. So, you know, that's the value of those industries that provide scholarships.
▶ 1:57:31Uh, back when I went to college, uh, my my tribe did have scholarship fund. They still do have scholarship funds for higher ed. So, we take advantage of that. So, I have, uh, what we call or what you call a school choice. I have a scholarship. I have some funding uh that I can go to a private school or a a state university or I can go home to a tribal college. So, those models exist as we speak.
▶ 1:57:53Um so that's a value again of you know our tribes being innovative or thinking outside the box um of um of wanting um you know our students to go off off the reservation off the tribal answer to a university. So those those models certainly exist. Great. Well I look forward to exploring those with you. My my focus is not for the benefit of an institution.
▶ 1:58:15My focus is on the benefit of the students because these 700 students um if they are getting a problem education, which it sounds like they were based on what I've read, we're not so we're not only spending a lot of money, but we're not giving these kids what they need to be successful in life. And so that should be our focus, not how do we preserve institutions, but how do we better the life of our children. So I thank you for the work that you're doing. If there's anything I can do, uh please let me know. And with that, I yield back. Thank you. I thank the gentleman from Florida.
▶ 1:58:43you led to my my ideas. So, but the the ranking member has a couple of questions and then I'll finish it up. Okay. So, ranking member, thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for your indulgence here. And thank you, Mr. Davis. Clearly, your leadership, your dedication, your heart are all in the success of our of these institutions and our our tribal students.
▶ 1:59:07um creative ways to fund schools, prayer, independence, indiv in innovation, those are important, but I will state once again the US government has made treaty commitments um to our tribal community support the education of our indigenous students and I feel strongly that we are failing to deliver on that promise if we are cutting a budget that is already anemic by 90%.
▶ 1:59:32Do you have available alternative tools to what you've talked about with alternative um funding streams? Like what else are you thinking about doing to help the success of these students? I very much appreciate ranking member Adams's points that you supported that the school environment and how people feel when they're in that school environment does impact their success. So what other options do you have?
▶ 2:00:00And I I will just ask you to be rather succinct because I have one other question for you. Another great question, ma'am. Another great comment. You know, um looking at, you know, this pending legislative bill, like I said, I haven't read it yet. Uh but allowing tribes or excuse me, uh like Haskell to be more innovative. I think what I've looked at sometimes in the governance of of uh some of our school systems are really constrained.
▶ 2:00:27a lot of red tape, you know, a lot of uh rules and regs. I I you know, how can you fundamentally, you know, teach an effective way? How can you build out better budgets? How can you allow uh other funding mechanisms to be, you know, uh sourced into that school system? So, those are things I we really want to look into of how more sovereignty is given to these schools as as as is the case here too. Uh and the governance, the governance structure, I think that's in key. You know, I'm a big big believer in self-governance.
▶ 2:00:55I just am you know uh I taugh I was taught that from my father um versus a a governmentrun institution I think those are things that are really being seriously looked at uh across Indian country so those are just examples of how I would look at you know different ways of doing that so what I'm noting the schools and sending your students to another place with voucher- like programs is that fair yeah that's fair that's a fair question something that we've we've heard a lot of clear from in the country you know through through uh comments and my visits is that you know Our schools are
▶ 2:01:25are sacred. You know, our children are sacred. So, are our schools perfect? No. You know, is is schools across America perfect? No, they're not. There's always improvement for improvement, whether it's data sets, outcomes, graduation rates, funding. You know, we can go on and on uh about these systems across America. No, thank you. And I will just say what I think is obvious. You are in an impossible situation here. You clearly deeply care about these institutions and yet we are almost eliminating the budget.
▶ 2:01:54So, we cannot expect miracles here and even with optimized management, governance, all these things. Um, I believe we need to support you and your leadership and I've heard across the aisle here a commitment to doing that. Um, I I look forward to our working together with you to live up to our tribal obligations, our treaty obligations, and making sure that these learning environments are actually meaningful and supportive and restorative for these students who deserve a future.
▶ 2:02:24You sitting here before us is very inspiring. We want other students from our indigenous communities to be here leading and making sure that there's a vibrant and successful future for our tribes. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. I thank the gentleman. Uh the gentle lady uh from North Carolina is given two minutes for her second. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Davis. I'm sorry that Mr. Fine left.
▶ 2:02:53uh he said he'd only been here for a short time, but I wanted to uh just share with him and the committee that under President Biden, it's a little disingenuous to say that President didn't the former president didn't do anything uh but but but he did uh the TCU did receive $367.3 million in addition uh to the funds that they received through COVID.
▶ 2:03:18So, uh, we we have been supporting the prior administration has been supporting and I do chair the bipartisan H.B.CU caucus with Representative French Hill and we have some co-chairs on the Senate side as well. So, I'm very interested in these schools, but I don't think we can continue to uh underfund and overlook these institutions and then turn around and say that we care about equity in higher education. I know for some people they think equity is a bad word. I think it's a good word, but but it doesn't add up.
▶ 2:03:47uh 30% of TCU students report facing food insecurity. These students are are working hard um every single day to break the cycles of poverty uh with empty stomachs. And I'm trying to understand Mr. Davis uh your position and the authority that you have. And I wanted to ask if you're willing to offer suggestions to your superior. You know, if you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. And we've continued to ask about the 90% and whether you want to admit that or not.
▶ 2:04:16And I don't know, maybe it has to do with the administration that you're in, but 90% that means that's just about all of your budget. And I was a a college professor for 40 years, an administrator as well, and I understand the difficulties and the challenges that you have trying to run these schools.
▶ 2:04:34You did say that you didn't know about the other schools, but I would just suggest uh that you have a conversation with whoever your superior is or whoever who's who who who's reporting to you uh to offer some suggestions about at least talking with other challenge other chancellors and presidents of these schools.
▶ 2:04:53So since we're talking about the legacy and so forth that I think that would help you at least get a broader perspective and maybe you can answer a little more directly some of the questions that have been asked because I don't think you have and I hope hopefully you're you're just not in a position where you just don't think you can say what you really feel. I don't I can't say what you feel. But I can tell you what I know. If you take 90% out of anybody's salary, you only have 10%. You can't run a school like that.
▶ 2:05:22And certainly I hope that you are not thinking about closing. I think these schools must survive. Uh education is power, knowledge is power, and that's what makes the difference in lives and communities. And thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I thank the Mr. Davis, I I'll turn to my questions. Now, are you familiar with a a college by the name of Embry Riddle? Uh, say that again, sir. I'm sorry. Amberry, I'm familiar familiar with a college named Embry Riddle.
▶ 2:05:52They're they're a big aviation school. Aviation school. Mhm. Yeah. I bring it up because they they marched to a different drummer. Okay. They take no federal funds. They're all private. Okay. And why I'm bringing that up is they've become one of the top aviation schools in the world. In fact, as far as fighter or you know, as pilots go, they're either one, two, or three. And they're two of the three because they have two campuses.
▶ 2:06:20one in Daytona, Florida, and one in Prescuit, Arizona. Okay. Now, one of the other things I'm going to bring up to you is is is a little story. And why I'm going to tell the story is because somebody was dreaming and I want you to dream after this with me. Okay? So, Wyoming, I'm from Wyoming originally, um could not keep doctors and and dentists, health professionals. So, they had minerals and they had excise tests on it.
▶ 2:06:48and they hired some consultants to help build them some buildings, dental buildings and some medical buildings. But instead of doing that, the consultants said, "Don't build And the dinosaurs were actually the buildings, okay? They said, "Get your allow your students to go wherever they may, and then once they get in, help them out." So, for example, my sister went to medical school at the University of Utah. They paid their whole way.
▶ 2:07:17She paid they paid their whole way through and gave her a $20,000 stipen to live off of. Very year she did that, she had to come back. Okay. So, it was very well planned out. Very interesting. Okay. Wouldn't you say? Now, why I'm going to ask you now is If if you look at school, this is a perfect time for changing of direction. I think the gentleoman from North Carolina said it. I think Mr. fine senator from Florida and I think the ranking member said it. Okay.
▶ 2:07:48So, close your eyes and tell me what you see Haskell looking like. What do you see? I see a a brand new campus. I see my my stadium, which broke my heart. Um, as a runner there, um, the iconic stadium there. Um, a veteran cemetery by the way, a vet a veteran stadium by the way. um dilapitated.
▶ 2:08:12The track had you know weeds and you know just the the bleachers were you know everything was closed it made me cry you know it was it hurt. So when I think things like that, my mom's uh you know uh dormatory, my dormatory, you know, all these things that really need to be upgraded, uh I see that.
▶ 2:08:33But I also see more importantly, you know, students that are walking around happy, secure, safe, energized, um vibrant, um culturally happy, you know, honed in on their cultural and and their language. That's what I see.
▶ 2:08:52Um that's how that's my dream for Haskell and all schools across in the country you know is that these models have to fit us whether it's a lot college or a Ishanab or a Navajo these things are very very um personal to us because of the nature of how we teach and and because you know prior to that and we know the stories of boarding schools you know we we all know the history you know we we've been through that process a lot uh the horrific stories of boarding schools uh but we today as now
▶ 2:09:22sitting here in front of you with your leadership. We all have a collective opportunity here uh committee members to do something different to really work together to brainstorm to dream to dream of what to dream of what our our schools could be like to be better to be safe you know that's that's our dream and I and I hope you would open your eyes and your hearts and to look at that model
▶ 2:09:53work with us work with me and I promise you I'll work with our tribal leaders, our tribal college presidents to see what that looks like. You know, that's my commitment. So, I think this is a perfect time right now to reset that button of what this really looks like for the future of education across any country. I really do. That's my dream. So I I I see something in the middle here that really is a problem for both sides, both from the US side and from the Native American side.
▶ 2:10:22And it's the world's sovereignty. Okay? You you have you you have to have a defined definition here. You can't be sovereign on this and then just say, "No, we're not sovereign on that." It doesn't work that way. And I think you're caught in the middle because of a government. we can't we're afraid to talk about this conversation. I think we have to define that first. That's my biggest key.
▶ 2:10:48Number two is then we have to get you back to I would look at at least from my view seeing what I've seen here from the problems that are at Haskell. I would think the first thing I would want to try to do is try to get housing. There's lots of different ways to go housing. And I would I would actually probably uh leverage that. Okay.
▶ 2:11:14And and why I say that is is I watched a a 24 unit hotel being put up in two weeks on at four weeks. They were seeing they actually had guests. They were pre-made up in Las Vegas. It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life. I sat there and filmed it and I shouldn't have been filming it because I was supposed to be somewhere else. But that's how amazing this is.
▶ 2:11:41And I think if you you start with a home base with where kids feel safe, they have units that they can that they're comfortable in, you can make anything Okay. I I just the opportunities that you have I think are are so great.
▶ 2:12:00But I think you have to have that vision You put that vision down and the gentle lady from North Carolina said it, if you don't plan, then you're going to plan to And I I I think we're just rolling over and over and over again and we're not addressing the situation properly. That make sense? I agree. You know when you talk about sovereignty you know sovereignty begins with yourself and how that begins is through education.
▶ 2:12:31So I became self- sovereign through education through my degree at Haskell. That's how I became self- sovereign where I now I don't have to really depend on federal aid or somebody. Do I need a hand up at times? Absolutely. We all do. We all need to do do that. but through my education, through my degree, through this this this piece of paper that that we get when we graduate, that's sovereign to me. And I've and I've shared that many many times, thousands of times with with a lot of the the the the students that I've mentored over the years.
▶ 2:13:01Um, having that self- sovereignty now, you understand what it means to have your own, you can call your own shots. You're you're in control of your destination. How does that translate to in the country with with with the the the the the parallel of our treaties? That's that's where it it gets a little complicated, you know. Are we self- sovereign? Yes, we are. Do we do does does Congress adhere to our tribal tribal treaties? Yes and no. You know, it just depends, you know. So, it gets complex, right?
▶ 2:13:30But for me, you know, and why we're sitting here, the key to sovereignty, the key to self sovereignty is education. You're you're obviously very self- sovereign as leaders. You're educated. You're elected. You know, you you control your destiny. And do you need help at times? Absolutely. We all do. You know, we all need that from time to time. Um do we face challenges? Yes, we do. Um but we help each other. That's what country does. That's what country's done for me. It's always supporting me. I support them back.
▶ 2:14:00Same from the communities, the districts you come from. You see families that that need help. You see families that are doing well. you know, we all live in that space. U but how do you blend that together? How do you share some of these resources, you know, across uh where you live? These are things that you all face as leaders. I'm no different. I'm no different.
▶ 2:14:18But at the end of the day, we have to create a a space that that environment, you know, through education like Haskell, like Sippy, you know, and these education other education institutions to have that freedom to be self-s sovereign. So again, I'm I'm I'm I'm really looking forward to working with you. Um, I hope to come back to this committee and and bring better news, uh, you know, better outcomes, you know, um, and I'm I'm very confident we will. Well, we're oversight, so expect to be given an invitation.
▶ 2:14:48The gentleoman from Arizona is going to go and then I'll finish out with our final comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank our witness for being here today. The Bureau of Indian Education School System is a critical institution that provides education for roughly 46,000 students at 183 schools across the United States. These schools are essential to supporting native youth and upholding tribal sovereignty.
▶ 2:15:13Unfortunately, chronic staffing shortages and inadequate funding have left many BIE schools in disrepair, putting the health and safety of students at risk. All students have a right to safe and healthy classrooms and we must ensure that these rights are extended to native students. However, instead of addressing the decades of deferred maintenance and repair backlog that have weakened educational outcomes for native students, this administration wants to make extreme cuts to BIE staffing and funding.
▶ 2:15:42We've already seen that Doge has targeted Haskell and Southwestern Indian Polytechnic Institute with drastic staff reductions which according to the Native American Rights Fund devastated operations at Haskell and SIPI and undermine BIE operation operated schools across the nation. And now the administration wants to cut funding for BIE post-secondary programs by almost 90%.
▶ 2:16:07This would include critical funding for facilities management and infrastructure improvement across BIE. Despite what this administration may think, slashing funds and dismantling critical government agencies is not the way to support Haskell students. The federal government has a legal and a moral obligation to uphold tribal sovereignty and education. That means fully funding tribal schools and colleges, not abandoning them. Mr. Mr.
▶ 2:16:34Davis, does the federal government have a trust obligation to ensure that HA hasll and SIPI continue to exist to serve native students? Yes, we do. And would that trust responsibility continue if Haskell and SIPI were taken out of the BIE? Uh, reframe the question, ma'am. I'm sorry. Would even if they were taken out, would we expect that trust responsibility to continue? I'm not sure the uh question I'm taking out.
▶ 2:17:04I don't sorry I don't understand that. Could you expand then I'll try this reframing. Could you expand on how Haskell and SIPI would continue to serve Indian students and uphold that trust responsibility if they were to incur the administration's 90% in cuts. Oh, I see what you're Oh, I understand. Okay. Sorry about that. Yeah. You know, like I stated before, ma'am, uh before you came, you know, the cuts throughout in the country through the my time, my tenure doing this almost 20 years now.
▶ 2:17:33Um we've seen cuts. We've seen uh increases. Um we've seen it all. Uh but we've always been resilient. We've always been prepared for these cuts, uh challenges. Uh we're very resilient, like I said, uh being innovative. And I think that's the the value of this of this um of this setting today is how do we collectively look at you know long-term sustainable funding mechanisms for in the country in particular higher education institutions and our K- through2 schools.
▶ 2:18:02While I of course appreciate your commitment to resilience and the fact that you've been proactively preparing for this, Mr. Davis, I believe that Haskell, SIPI, and any college would be unable to serve their students after a 90% budget cut, and it would result in us absolutely failing native students. I will intend to pursue language in any bill that changes the administration of Haskell and SIPI.
▶ 2:18:27This language would clarify that adequate funding is necessary to meet the federal government's trust responsibility to tribes and the Native American community. I will submit that language to the department for your review. Can you think of any reason uh Mr.
▶ 2:18:41Davis that the Department of Interior or BIE would not support such Well, we'll certainly support what's what's mandated for us, but I you know, looking at um Representative Mann's bill that's being introduced here, I think today or I'm not sure when. I think that's that's certainly an opportunity for your body to really look at not just with Haskell, maybe other institutions of what that funding mechanism would look like. Okay.
▶ 2:19:08So I think there's a great opportunity here again with with your your your uh your leadership here and with the proposed bill that's that's being uh introduced here. So look forward to working with on that. Thank you. And you already know well the Doge cuts have already hit faculty and staff very hard. What is the department doing right now to ensure that there are enough faculty and staff to provide a world-class education to Indian students at Haskell?
▶ 2:19:34Yeah, fortunately when when those things were happen, you know, we we we uh I I personally asked for exemptions and we got that and now we're looking at other jobs that are opening. So I know a number of our institutions that received those uh uh those um employee cuts are being advertised. So that's exciting uh on on those fronts, too. So we're we're getting back uh some of those employees who wish to come back. Uh but other jobs are out there as well for our institutions uh as we Thank you.
▶ 2:20:04I know I'm out of time, so I'll yield back. Thank you so much. I think gentle lady, just one couple more questions and Mr. Davis, and you've been so gracious with your time and and your answers. Treaty is uh an obligation from both sides, right? Is that is that true? Well, it depends, you know. Uh I think uh I can only speak for my treaty where I come from, the Fort Larmy treaty.
▶ 2:20:29You know, obviously our large millions millions and millions of acres were were given up, you know, with those promises. Oh, I get that. I get that. I get that. But my point is a treaty is two people coming to an agreement, right? And trust is a series of promises kept. I've always said that. Okay. So, in a treaty, both sides have to keep their word. Both. Okay. So, there's a lot of mistrust right now because I see the federal government not doing their job. I see some of the tribes not doing their job.
▶ 2:20:59give you one of them. Okay. In Arizona, we allowed for Indian gaming. It came to Arizona. The state took it up as a proposition initiative. We're initiative state and we passed it. Now, part of the supposition of that group was that no new casinos would come about Phoenix proper. What happened is there was one of the tribes, the Toho, who actually were doing it.
▶ 2:21:28They they signed said they would do nothing but they engaged with this middleman. They did it behind closed doors. Now what ended up happening is is that we caught them. They got caught. I had all their all their minutes of their uh tribal councils and everything. But then they went to court and they said, "Oh, we're sovereign immunity." Okay. So once again, there's mistrust on both sides. And that's why I really wanted you to try to dream a little bit.
▶ 2:21:58You're not gonna throw money away, right? If something's going wrong, you don't It would be stupid to throw money away, wouldn't it? Would you agree? Well, you know, it's a great question, great comment. Um, state by state, tribe by tribe, everything's different. We're, you know, you referenced Arizona, you referenced Wyoming, where I come from, the Dakotas. You know, we're all same but different. you know, how legislative bodies, you know, do business with the tribes, that's their their preview. Um, no different where I come from.
▶ 2:22:28You know, I I did two gaming compacts during my tenure with two governors, you know, um, and that was just the good old song and dance of of of a deal, right? Uh, through federal policy that's allowable between states and tribes. So, there's many examples out there, uh, as you know, uh, Mr. chairman of how tribes and states uh the federal government work together or they don't work together. Uh that involves treaties.
▶ 2:22:54I mean that's the ever that's the everlasting process that I learned back in the 90s when I was real young. I'm in it now. I'm in it today. Uh these things get complex. Uh but the best way to navigate through these things is having these these venues to talk about it. you know, I've engaged with a number of tribes, you know, leadership, um, engagement. That was a big commitment why I I came on with Secretary Bergam was because of his leadership, because of his value of lead, listening, following through.
▶ 2:23:24Is everything perfect? Are we ever going to get what we want? You you know that as you debate, you know, a lot of your bills throughout the Congress, you know, um, and as a common citizen, that frustrates us, you know, but it it's part of governance, you know, it's part of, uh, America. It's part of any country, you know, but we as leaders uh do the best we can, the best interests of our of uh in the country and your constituents, but it certainly u has its moments. Yeah. And so the things that you referenced certainly have its moments.
▶ 2:23:55So what last thing, last point, national uh uh national congress of American Indians, that means annually, right? Wouldn't this be a a perfect storm for them to be involved with uh the federal government along with Haskell University and Cippy? Yeah, certainly. You know, NCI has been around a long time. I just spoke with them uh a couple weeks back up in Connecticut. Had very positive engagement. You know, they're all concerned.
▶ 2:24:24But you also have other uh organizations like Coalition of Large Land Bases. You know, they're they're very up and cominging. They're very strong. You have other uh associations uh Midwest tribes uh of in the country. You have other uh alliances down in the southwest uh down Oklahoma other alliances. So you have a number of very strong leaders in in country that have their their associations. Even one up in the affiliated tribes up in um uh up in the Spokane area.
▶ 2:24:52I was just up there, you know, that's a huge fishering uh uh uh and and river systems up there too. uh that is very very uh unique and powerful up there too. So uh all these associations have a vested interest in in the country obviously education whether it's your tribal colleges or schools at home but in this case Haskell as well.
▶ 2:25:12So well I got to tell you thank you so very much your time is Um I want to thank the witness for his valuable testimony and the members for their questions. Uh the members of the committee may have some additional questions for you. Uh, and we ask that you will respond to these in writing. Under House Natural Resources Committee Rule three, members must submit questions to the subcommittee clerk by 5:00 PM on Friday, June 27th.
▶ 2:25:40Hearing record will be held open for 10 business days from these for these responses. There's no further This committee submitted