▶ 0:17:51Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. Uh, I recognize myself for the purposes of making an opening statement. But before I do that, just a little bit of house cleaning. I'm gonna ask that uh Congresswoman Beth Van Dyene and Congressman Scott Perry be allowed to um sit in here and they both expressed a interest in showing up and of course the more the marrier.
▶ 0:18:19Um okay now welcome to the subcommittee on healthcare and financial services. Today's hearing will focus on the destructive diversity, equity, and inclusion or DEI policies that radical Democrats have tried to insert certain American institutions and really going back a little bit more than that all the way back to affirmative action and the executive order uh put into place by President Johnson in 1965.
▶ 0:18:44I think it's important we all understand the effect and the scope of these policies have had on American life the last 60 years. Uh on September 24th, 1965, we got to remember to celebrate that anniversary almost 60 years ago, Lyndon Johnson signed Executive Order 11246, which mandated affirmative action programs and policies which facilitated uh discrimination.
▶ 0:19:10In 1965, uh, minority groups um had faced a a generation of despicable and repun repugnant discrimination, though I know individual universities were already practicing affirmative action 10 years before that. I know Princeton was practicing in 1955. At the time, these nation uh DI policies were no nobly aimed at reversing that harm. Um, unfortunately, even well-intentioned bad policy is still bad policy.
▶ 0:19:40Discrimination should never be fought with more discrimination. Um, that is exactly what affirmative action and DI policies have done over the last 60 years. Uh, these policies have infiltrated nearly every type of institution in America, including higher education, corporate workplaces, the military, and more. Uh, in my opinion, it really hasn't been gradual over the last 60 years.
▶ 0:20:05I think if you look back even in the 1970s, the 1960s, these policies were around uh these policies divide Americans by putting them all in groups and educating people that they should not view themselves as an individual. They should view themselves as a group, which is why I think people who want to destroy American are so in favor of them.
▶ 0:20:26uh categories uh I might add these arbitrary categories are are entirely self-reported rather than focusing on the whole of of somebody's DEI assumes that anyone who checks a box for a certain race is disadvantaged. Um of course we don't want to be a society where we go back and try to um give preferences based on on other factors as well.
▶ 0:20:55On President Biden's first day in office, he signed an ex uh an executive order to promote DEI and federal employment. This order went further than any before it by expanding racial divisions, including immigrants. Thankfully, President Trump rescended this executive order and decades of executive orders that preceded it. Let's be clear about what DEI is.
▶ 0:21:16It's an ex it's a deliberate and explicit choice to put ideology over excellence to to de deny admission of highly qualified students to accept students with lower scores to fill in the box right is unamerican and like I said encourages divisiveness. this is to award government contracts to minority owned companies over companies with better bids.
▶ 0:21:45This is spelled out plainly in the E of DEI. Equity means ensuring equi equity means ensuring equal mount outcomes. Um I think it's it's beyond Marxism though. You're trying to destroy America by doing to America what they do in other countries and trying to set one ethnic group against another ethnic group. You know, you think of Canada, the French against the English. Um you think of Middle Eastern countries, the Shades against the Sunnis, what have you.
▶ 0:22:14that is what they're trying to do in this country. Um, fortunately, despite the Democrats best efforts, the courts have been opposed to this sort of thing. The Civil Rights Act protects everyone. Earlier this month, the Supreme Court rejected a lower court's requirement. The members of majority groups must meet a certain higher standard to win discrimination cases against their employers. By the way, the case was unanimously decided. Even Justice Jackson authored the majority opinion.
▶ 0:22:44In 2023, the Supreme Court ended race-based admission programs at colleges and universities, finding that uh the that considering race as a factor in admissions violated the 14th amendment of the equal protection clause and title six of the civil rights act. The Trump administration has launched a wide reaching effort to eliminate DEI, including revoking LBJ's 1965 executive order. Um, these steps are critical, but there's more work to be done.
▶ 0:23:12Above all, we have to educate the American public what's been going on in this country the last 60 years. Um hopefully the hearing will provide us with an opportunity to discuss this important topic and consider possible reforms to fortify American meritocracy and excellence and above all have reforms that do not continue with this policy of what I believe is intentionally trying to set one group Americans against another.
▶ 0:23:39I yield to my ranking member Christa Mory for his opening statement. Mr. Chair, thank you and thank you for convening this hearing. Despite this being the health care and financial services subcommittee of the oversight committee, I'm disappointed that the words health care, financial services, and oversight do not appear anywhere in today's hearing topic.
▶ 0:24:05Rather than conducting real oversight into the damage being done to our nation's health care systems, this subcommittee is once again failing to meet the moment. I can understand the majority's desire to change the subject. If I had to defend the big, beautiful bill, or what I call the large, lousy law, I'd be looking for a distraction as well. It's easier to deflect than to face the truth.
▶ 0:24:29This large lousy law is cutting at least 625 billion dollars from Medicaid, leaving millions without access to health care. It's taking food from children through cuts to SNAP. It's forcing thousands of veterans out of their homes by slashing affordable housing assistance.
▶ 0:24:47And not to mention, this bill adds so much to the nation's debt that CBO, the Congressional Budget Office, says the bill may trigger $500 billion in automatic cuts to Medicare in addition to the cuts that are happening to Medicaid.
▶ 0:25:04It's no surprise that with the Senate Republicans making even deeper cuts to Medicaid in their version of what I call the large lousy law, this subcommittee is trying even harder to change the subject, holding a hearing not about health care, but how great it would be to pit Americans against each other and go after the concept of The majority believes diversity is a barrier to excellence.
▶ 0:25:30But I believe that it's in fact the key to achieving excellence in America. Diversity means lowering the barrier so everyone can compete. When we have competition, America benefits. Diversity means uh we have more competition in our workforce so our employers can perform better. It means more opportunities for small businesses. It means higher quality products and services and ultimately it means lower prices.
▶ 0:25:59From consumers to taxpayers to employers, everyone wins when we expand opportunity and lower barriers to competition. This isn't theory, it's proven. Studies from across the political spectrum back it up. Indeed.com, the nation's largest online recruiter, found that diverse teams make faster, better decisions. McKenzie reported that companies with more women in leadership are significantly more likely to outperform companies with fewer women in leadership.
▶ 0:26:30Forbes found that diverse workplaces are essential to remaining retaining top talent. Diversity means not giving someone an unfair head start and making sure uh ultimately that the race is not rigged. When I first ran for office in Illinois, I said, "My name is Raja Krishna Morphy and instead was called Roger Christian Murphy." A t-shirt with that name now hangs in my office.
▶ 0:26:59Yes, it's funny, but it's also a pointed reminder that the whole point of diversity is that Rajak Krishna Morphy doesn't have to be Roger Christian Murphy in order to get ahead. Real competition and true opportunity drive economic success. That's why it's no accident that Illinois is one of just 13 states that sends more tax dollars to Washington than it receives in services.
▶ 0:27:23Illinois does this by fostering diverse talent and it invests in having the broadest opportunities for everyone. Those investments mean that Illinois ranks near the top nationally in economic performance, education, and quality of life. And Illinois is an engine of America's economy. Diversity is one of its drivers.
▶ 0:27:45There is no reverse gear for prosperity and I will not go back to the days when the American dream was reserved merely for the privileged few. Thank you and I yield back. Okay. I'm pleased uh today to welcome our witnesses, Dan Lenn Lennington, Eric Smith, Judge Glock, and Shawn Harper. Dan Lennington is managing vice president and deputy council at the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty.
▶ 0:28:14Eric Smith is a research fellow at the Ko Institute. Judge Glock is a director of research and senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. And Sean Harper is Provos Professor of Public Policy, Business, and Education at the University of Southern California. We look forward to to hearing what you have to say on today's important topic. Um, pursuant to committee rule 9G, the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand.
▶ 0:28:43Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. The record will show that the witnesses all answered in the affirmative. So we're going to get nothing but the facts today. Thank you. And you may take a Okay. I appreciate you being here today. Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written statement. It will appear in full in the hearing record. Please limit your oral statement to 5 minutes.
▶ 0:29:11As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it's on and the members can hear you. When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green. After four minutes, the light will turn yellow, which means you got a minute to go. When the red light comes on, your five minutes have expired and ask you to wrap up as quickly as possible. We'll start with Dan Lington for your opening Thank you members of the subcommittee for inviting me here to testify.
▶ 0:29:38A few weeks ago, the US Supreme Court unanimously held that federal civil rights laws apply to all Americans equally. The law of the land is colorblind. Diversity, equity, and inclusion or DEI stands in direct contrast to this legal principle. DEI treats individuals as members of racial groups and then aims to even out the outcomes through racial balancing, a practice the US Supreme Court has repeatedly deemed unlawful.
▶ 0:30:07This morning, I'd like to emphasize two points briefly. First, DEI hurts real Americans every day. And second, DEI is in fact illegal. At the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty, we've represented over 80 clients from 25 states who have been harmed by discriminatory DEI policies. We filed lawsuits, including six against the Biden administration and one recent lawsuit against the Trump administration to protect Americans from these harmful DEI policies.
▶ 0:30:36Programs we've successfully challenged include grant programs, investment vehicles, educational policies, government programs that discriminate against many Americans based on race. DEI in the workplace is particularly harmful. Many victims suffer in silence, fearing retaliation or job loss. For instance, an employee at a Fortune 500 company recently told us he was excluded from a fasttrack promotion program because he's white.
▶ 0:31:05A different employee told us about a policy that rewards managers for meeting race-based hiring goals. These are not isolated anecdotes. A 2023 Pew study found that over half of American workers encounter discriminatory DEI policies every day at work. McKenzian company estimate estimates that DEI spending will hit 15 billion dollars by 2026.
▶ 0:31:29Beyond workplaces, corporations like Microsoft, Amazon, Harris Bank run race-based programs for their customers and suppliers. Hospitals and health systems like John's Hopkins and Cleveland Clinic have prioritized race in patient care, employment, or contracting.
▶ 0:31:48And the federal government still runs dozens of race-based programs even to this day under the guise of helping quote socially disadvantaged individuals, a designation that several courts have held is illegal race DEI is in practice illegal. In 2003 23, this US Supreme Court outlawed affirmative action because it violates five separate rules just like DEI.
▶ 0:32:17First, diversity and racial balancing are never lawful reasons to discriminate based on race. Second, racial categories like quote Asian or quote Hispanic are simply too vague to enforce and sometimes over broad or underinclusive to permit any racial distinctions. Third, race can never be used as a negative fa favoring one race over another.
▶ 0:32:41Fourth, race can never be used as a stereotype, such as encouraging racial diversity as an end in and of itself. And fifth, any race-based remedy, if it's permitted at all, has to be temporary. DEI runs a foul of all these rules and hurts Americans every day. Congress should lead by example by reforming federal law to root out all benefits and preferences for quote socially disadvantaged individuals.
▶ 0:33:08In our recent roadmap to equality report, we identified dozens of such race-based programs currently enshrined in federal law. Additionally, Congress should provide more funding to support those federal agencies that enforce our civil rights, such as the EEOC and the Department of Justice. To end, I'd like to briefly quote one of our clients, Colobby Decker, a mom from Green Bay, Wisconsin, whose son could not get help at school for dyslexia simply because he's white. Mrs.
▶ 0:33:38Decker told me, quote, "As a mother, it's hard heartbreaking to see countless children directly and mercilessly impacted by DEI. These are not victimless policies and practices." Indeed, DEI is not victimless. Penalizing individuals to quote make up for past discrimination is wrong.
▶ 0:33:57As the Supreme Court wrote in Brown versus Board of Education, treating people differently based on race, quote, generates a feeling of inferiority as to their status in the community that may affect their hearts and minds in a way unlikely ever to be undone. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. Dr. Smith, Chairman Rothman, Ranking Member Krishna Morphy, and members of the committee.
▶ 0:34:26Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Dr. Eric Smith. I am a former professor and current research fellow at the Ko Institute and I am also the president of Free Black Thought, a nonprofit dedicated to viewpoint diversity and academic freedom, particularly in discussions surrounding race and education. I come before you today with deep concern about how diversity, equity, and inclusion, commonly known as DEI, has evolved, or rather devolved in our institutions of higher learning.
▶ 0:34:56What began as a call for fairness has transformed into a sprawling ideology that undermines academic rigor, weakens individual accountability, and consumes public and student resources. In many cases, it replaces education with political conditioning. Let me be clear.
▶ 0:35:15I support racial equality and inclusion in principle, but too many of today's DEI practices are rooted in a framework drawn from Marxist critical theory, typically critical social justice and postmodern thought. These programs promote the idea that all disparities result from systemic oppression and that institutions must be re-engineered along lines of race, gender, and identity.
▶ 0:35:38This framework rejects principles like merit and equal treatment and instead replaces them with a primacy of identity and identity based power dynamics. Thus, when most critics go after DEI, they are not going after racial equality and inclusion in principle. They are going after their opposites disguised as This ideology has consequences. In my own academic career, I have seen how the rise of DEI has undermined meritocracy and discouraged open dialogue.
▶ 0:36:09When I questioned the efficacy of some certain ideas and tenants, I was labeled a white supremacist. I'll give people time to wrap that around your minds. Okay, good. When I questioned the efficacy of certain ideas and tenants, white supremacy was what was associated with me. My experience is not unique.
▶ 0:36:30Universities are increasingly rewarding ideological conformity and penalizing dissent even when that disscent is rooted in rigorous evidence-based Now, many studies highlight DEI's apparent benefits. Many others, however, challenge its core claims, such as its role in reducing harm, preventing violence, or aiding recovery. Research increasingly shows that DEI training often fails to reduce harm and may even exacerbate it.
▶ 0:37:01A fair comparison of the evidence on both sides is long overdue. Meanwhile, students are paying the price. DEI promotes the notion that minority students are too fragile for challenging ideas which weakens resilience and hinders intellectual growth. Many now graduate with little improvement in critical thinking and writing skills. writing skills, which are sometimes dismissed as inherently white and therefore racist to expect from minority students.
▶ 0:37:29I'll pause again and let you wrap your minds around that. Even the Smithsonian's National Museum of African-American History and Culture once echoed this view, undermining the very traits that foster success. This is not empowerment. This is educational Perhaps most troubling for this committee is that DEI has become a publicly funded industry.
▶ 0:37:53Universities often use federal student loans and grants to fund DEI initiatives that have very little to do with actual education. DEI bureaucracies are self-reinforcing. The more they declare society to be systemically racist, the more positions and programs they claim are necessary to fix it. This alone does not prove ill will, but it does create a feedback loop that diverts taxpayer dollars and tuition revenue away from instruction, research, and student support.
▶ 0:38:23The actual amount of the funding is irrelevant. The money could be better put to use. Yes, some DEI proponents say they do not abide by this detrimental ideology and create initiatives more aligned with classical liberal values. But where were they when detrimental ideologies were ruining lives, demonizing critical thinking and inquiry and pushing a narrative of doom and gloom for minorities? In this scenario, silence is indeed consent.
▶ 0:38:51In some DEI has ceased to be a tool for fairness. It is now a mechanism for ideological control, bureaucratic expansion, and fiscal inefficiency. It undermines academic integrity, penalizes viewpoint diversity, and short changes the very students it claims to uplift. Let's find a better way. Thank you. Thank you very much, Dr. Glack.
▶ 0:39:21Uh, Chairman Rothman, Ranking Member Christian Mory, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you very much for the opportunity to testify on DI, in particular on the topic of race and sexbased contracting. Although it does not receive the attention of other so-called diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, the federal government programs toward contracts to businesses based on the owner's race and sex are probably the most expensive by an order of magnitude.
▶ 0:39:46Last year, the federal government spent over $750 billion on contracts involving everything from army tanks to office software. And its grants to state and local governments supported contracts involving everything from energy infrastructure to highways. Yet, for years, federal laws and regulations have demanded that significant portions of contracts at all levels of government go to businesses based not upon those contracts quality or cost, but on the race and sex of business owners.
▶ 0:40:12The Biden administration actually had a goal to require up to 15% of all federal contracts go to so-called disadvantaged businesses. We now know that these minority contracting programs cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars a year, degrade our infrastructure and national defense, encourage corruption, and do nothing to help the truly disadvantaged. Uh Congress should end them as soon as possible. Uh there are two main race contracting programs.
▶ 0:40:38one the AA program which gives preferences to so-called disadvantages businesses and federal contracting and the disadvantaged business enterprise program which gives preferences to minority and womenowned firms uh and programs funded by the federal government. Uh contracting officers required to give certain proportions of all their contracts to these firms or to require subcontracting to them.
▶ 0:40:58Uh given that tens of billions of dollars are at stake based not on contract price or quality, but on the race and sex of business owners, it should not be surprising that many otherwise non-qualifying businesses seek to take advantage of these. A Department of Transportation Inspector General report found that over a third of its active fraud cases involve disadvantaged business enterprise fraud over the previous five years. And in in those cases, the Department of Transportation recovered hundreds of millions of dollars in financial uh penalties.
▶ 0:41:27A Small Business Administration report uh found that 20 of the 25 AAA disadvantaged firms they reviewed, which included 15 of the largest ADA uh 20 of them should not have been in the program. Stories of minority contracting fraud uh fraud are shockingly common.
▶ 0:41:45Just last month, the US Supreme Court decided a fraud case involving two companies that used a fake pass through firm to meet disadvantaged targets with p the path pass through firm taking a significant fee and performing no work, which is a very regular uh uh tenency in these contracting programs. Just this month, the Department of Justice secured four guilty pv involving bribery by an ADA firm of a USID official to secure over $550 million in contracts.
▶ 0:42:15There was a recent even more egregious case uh involving an individual who although considered socially and economically disadvantaged. According to the filed complaint was living in a 14,000q ft waterfront mansion that was featured on HTV's extreme houses or extreme homes, excuse me for messing up the term of the TV show. Uh there is solid academic evidence that these programs are costly. A well- reggarded paper from 2009 looked at what happened when California banned consideration of race and sex in contracting.
▶ 0:42:46The author found the cost of state- funded highways fell about 5 a.5% relative to federally funded projects. A working paper from last year found that disadvantage business set aides increased cost overruns by about a third and delays by about 9%. Uh there have been some welcome developments in the field of minority contract including changes in the courts and the executive branch. uh some of which uh my fellow uh witnesses have mentioned.
▶ 0:43:13Unfortunately, much of these contracting programs will continue without further action from Congress. A district court recently said that businesses can no longer be presumed eligible for the EA program based on their owner's race. But soon after the decision, the Small Business Administration requested current and potential 8A businesses to write what they called social disadvantage narratives to receive admittance to the program.
▶ 0:43:35It now recommends applicants for this contracting program describe how their race, ethnic origin, sexual orientation, or other so-called identities and characteristics have caused them to suffer discrimination and made them disadvantage, ineligible. It seems the federal government is now awarding large defense and infrastructure contracts based on essays about puditive social slights, which would strike most Americans as absurd.
▶ 0:43:58American taxpayers deserve the best deal possible, which means the core of contracting with the federal government should always be price and quality. Preferences for already successful businesses based on their owner's race or sex are unconstitutional, expensive, and detrimental to the core functions of government. They should be removed from all levels of government as quickly as possible. Thank you. Thank you. Now, we'll go on to Sean Harper for his opening statement. Thanks for inviting me.
▶ 0:44:27I am a tenure professor in three academic schools at the University of Southern California, but I am not here today as a spokesperson for my institution. America owes the enslaved Africans who built the White House and the US Capital Building. Neither they nor family members of theirs in subsequent generations were rightly compensated for those magnificent contributions or for centuries of additional unpaid labor. America owes the women who have never received equal pay for their performance of equal work.
▶ 0:44:57It owes employees who were sexually harassed and abused in their workplaces, especially those who never received legal or financial remedies. It owes extraordinarily talented service members of color who were unfairly passed over for promotions in our nation's military. It owes extraordinarily talented people with disabilities who never received the accommodations that would have enabled them to advance in their careers.
▶ 0:45:23And it owes extraordinarily talented professionals who never got a real shot at earning their way to the top in their workplaces because of their weight, accents, last names, sexual orientations, or skin color. DEI policies and programs aim to redress these and myriad other long-standing realities. Opponents often critique DEI plans that they've never read.
▶ 0:45:48They make unsubstantiated generalizations about DEI experiences in which they have not participated. I furnish several examples of this in my written testimony. One such overestimation and overstatement is that white employees are being most routinely discriminated against in their workplaces. Here are the facts. 72% of employees in leadership roles at colleges and universities are white.
▶ 0:46:15Cumulatively across all industries 77% of managers are white. 84% of seuite executives in Fortune 100 companies are white. 87% of Fortune 500 CEOs are white. 94% of US governors are white. 73% of the current United States Congress is comprised of white members.
▶ 0:46:43All but one president of the United States of America has been white. Put simply, there's insufficient evidence to confirm that highly qualified white professionals, especially men, are being systematically passed over for leadership roles on the basis of their race. There's even less evidence that DEI policies and programs are responsible for racial discrimination against them or anyone else. Opponents also exaggerate the amount of time and money spent on DEI activities.
▶ 0:47:12In US Defense Secretary Pete Hexet's confirmation hearing, Indiana Senator Jim Banks claimed that the Defense Department spent over 5 million hours on counter extremism and diversity training during the first year of Joe Biden's presidency. Banks did not disentangle counter extremism from DEI activities. Surely, they are not the same.
▶ 0:47:34Rhode Island Senator Jack Reid pointed out that the estimated 5.9 million hours devoted to DEI were out of more than 2 billion hours that the Defense Department devoted to all training activities during that same year. That means that less than 0.3% of training time was spent on DEI.
▶ 0:47:56Notwithstanding, Hexath went on to say that as defense secretary, he would quote, "Send a clear message that this is not a time for equity." It is essential for Secretary Hexath, the Trump administration, and all other citizens to understand the real costs of inequity to our country. Here are the real costs that too many Americans pay with their lives.
▶ 0:48:22infant mortality, maternal mortality, diabetes, asthma, COVID 19, heart attacks, strokes, AIDS related illnesses, and most forms of cancer disproportionately kill Americans of color. Analyses presented in a highly cited WK Kellogg Foundation report revealed that closing racial gaps in health, education, and employment would increase America's GDP by $8 trillion.
▶ 0:48:52On their own, health disparities in the United States annually produce $93 billion in excess medical costs and $42 billion in lowered productivity, according to that same Kellogg Foundation report. Additionally, the economic impact of shortened lifespans among people of color is $175 billion. Now, those are the real costs. Thank you.
▶ 0:49:22Okay. Now, we'll begin to open it up for questions and I'll call upon myself first. Uh Mr. Lennington, I'd like to have you give us a little bit of a background of what some people call affirmative action. As I understood, it began in 1965, uh, Lynden Johnson, and since that time, our our nation has shifted more and more in that direction.
▶ 0:49:44Could you let us know kind of, first of all, I think it was supposed to be a race thing, but at what time did people from south of the border wind up getting added to the mix, at what time did women get added to the mix? And do these policies result as a practical matter American businesses discriminating on the part of sex by sex or race? I think that's a fair estimation.
▶ 0:50:07What I would say is that you know first thing to remember is that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was was passed in July of 1964. Uh there was an election in November of 1964 and every single person who voted for that law was reelected. uh it was very popular among the American people and one of the reasons why is because the law was itself colorblind.
▶ 0:50:30There's actually a provision at the end of title 7 that says that nothing in this law should be read to en encourage the development of quotas or goals. But after that election, President Johnson did go in to establish this executive order 11246, which established affirmative action with some teeth, which meant that goals were going to be, uh, then enforced by the federal government.
▶ 0:50:54And so uh federal contractors were encouraged to set aside businesses for minorities under something called the Philadelphia plan that was later expanded greatly by President Nixon under his secretary of labor George Schultz and then basically ratified by the US Supreme Court in a couple of decisions Baky and Weber saying that it is okay to take race into account when you're establishing benefits and burdens. So basically could you describe what you mean by race at the time?
▶ 0:51:22I I mean uh I believe President Biden recently added uh people from North Africa, Middle Eastern. At at what point, you know, when it began, were we just talking about black? Were we talking about Hispanic? Were we talking about Asian? At what time were these different groups added? And at what time were women added to the mix? So the women were at a few years after the original affirmative action uh order was issued.
▶ 0:51:44But then in the 1970s, the OM came up with this directive 15 which establishes racial categories that we actually live with today which broadly defines Asian but irrationally also defines Asian to exclude many people who are from Asia. For example, someone from Afghanistan is not considered Asian under the federal law. Someone from the Middle East is not considered Asian. People from North Africa are considered white.
▶ 0:52:10Uh so uh people from um you know different parts of the world are are labeled other things. You know Hispanics are people who only derive from Spanish-sp speakaking countries. So if I if I'm uh say of German descent but my ancestors spent a few generations in Uruguay, am I considered Hispanic or am I considered European?
▶ 0:52:31These are difficult questions and I think right now you would be considered South American or Latino or Hispanic depending on which federal law you're actually looking at. A lot of these federal laws contradict each other into who's in and who's out. Right?
▶ 0:52:45If I'm one quarter Mexican and threearters Irish or something in ancestry, and by Mexican I mean um Hispanic even not Hispanic because Hispanic as you just mentioned covers uh people of European descent who came here from Cuba.
▶ 0:53:04say, uh, could you, if I'm one quarter, like I said, if I'm one quarter of my ancestry is from, uh, Uruguay and three/arters is from Ireland, am I considered a a minority for purposes of this law? It it it is presently interpreted as self-identification. So, if you identify as that race, you get the benefits under the current federal laws.
▶ 0:53:30So it is it's not a blood quantum sort of uh uh process that they go through. They they ask you how you identify. You talk about people who are at a disadvantage. If my father's a a billionaire but my ancestry Latin America and am I considered disadvantaged? Yes.
▶ 0:53:50At one one interesting point, we just won a case against the Minority Business Development Agency and the judge in that case said that under federal law, Oprah Winfrey is disadvantaged, right? So, is there any reason for this and that you want to divide Americans? Why why we don't take in if we're really looking at disadvantage, I can have a a life of hell, but since my ancestors are from Europe, I'm not disadvantaged. And you know what I mean? We we can decide who is disadvantaged in this country by asking them.
▶ 0:54:19Under Medicaid, you can get on the Medicaid roles by establishing your individual need. There's no reason to assume someone is disadvantaged just by the color of their skin, which is what federal law does in many many programs right now. Okay. Um I'll I'll maybe come back to myself later. Mr. Christo Morphy. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:54:47Uh, in the name of expuning DEI, the Trump administration has lurched from the farcical to the cruel in its effort to rewrite history, including, for instance, threatening to remove EMTT Till's monument to even deleting references to the historic and heroic Tuskegee Airmen. These actions are wrong, but do not compete in cruelty with the ending of a suicide hotline for LGBTQ youth, which I just want to go into very briefly.
▶ 0:55:18Mr. Lennington, the Trump administration CDC in this report found that suicide risk is around four times higher for LGBTQ youth compared to their peers. You don't dispute that these are the Trump CDC's findings from 2020, correct? I I can't see what you're holding up, but are you talking about the Trevor Project? Is the No, I'm talking about the CDC. Okay. No, I don't I don't know what that is.
▶ 0:55:44In 2018, Republican Senator Orin Hatch said, quote, "It's a tragedy that the that in the United States, suicide is a leading cause of death among young people. And more tragic is the fact that LGBTQ youth are especially vulnerable." You don't dispute that that's what Senator Hatch said, correct, Mr. Lennington? I'm not aware of what he said at all.
▶ 0:56:06And in 2019, Democrats and Republicans came together to pass the National Suicide Hotline Designation Act, which was signed into law by President Trump. And Dr. Harper, you don't dispute that President Trump signed that into law. I do not dispute that. This May, so just a month ago, Republican representatives Lawler and Kim wrote that this dedicated LGBTQ hotline has received over 1.3 million calls and texts.
▶ 0:56:37They go on to say in their letter, quote, "Eliminating these support systems would be a devastating setback for youth already at elevated risk." You don't dispute that my Republican colleague said this, do you, Mr. Lington? I'm not aware of anything to do with the suicide hotline. And that's the problem, a lack of awareness.
▶ 0:56:58The fact that we are expuning an LGBTQ youth uh uh suicide hotline in the name of expuning DEI is precisely why this crusade is so misguided. Let me go to my next topic. The Trump administration is eliminating DEI programs to ensure quote equality for everybody.
▶ 0:57:21That supposed equality is has also translated into ending programs that have helped working people get ahead, leaving everybody equally lot worse off. Dr. Harper, the California Medical Association reported that the Republican Senate reconciliation proposal will slash Medicaid by $900 billion. You don't dispute they found that, right? I do not.
▶ 0:57:45The House reconciliation bill will lead to at least 16 million people losing their health insurance health insurance. The Senate plan will be worse. With within this estimation, KFF reports that 1.3 million Medicare beneficiaries will lose their Medicaid coverage. You don't dispute they found that, right? I do not. And it will disproportionately affect people of color.
▶ 0:58:09Crane, Chicago Business reported that this uh proposed slashing of Medicaid will leave at least eight hospitals to immediately close their doors in Illinois and potentially hundreds of hospitals across the country to do the same. Again, that's what this large lousy law is about to do. And we're talking about eliminating DEI programs all day around here. Last topic. The title of this hearing is quote sacrificing excellence for ideology.
▶ 0:58:38the real cost of DEI. I'd like to discuss some of the excellence within the Trump administration. Mr. Lennington, the AP reports that Defense Secretary Pete Hegsth is being investigated for accidentally sharing potentially classified information with the Atlantic's editor-inchief. You don't dispute this report, right? No. ProPublica reported that President Trump appointed a 22year-old to oversee the government's main hub for terrorism prevention.
▶ 0:59:07his only qualification having served as the secretary general of a model UN club. You don't dispute that they reported ProPublica reported this Dr. Harper, do you? I do not. I have an interesting picture of this gentleman as well which I'll show you in a second. Oh, actually he's here. This guy. Additionally, the New York Times reported that the president's health and human services secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
▶ 0:59:35has promoted numerous unproven conspiracy theories. He claims HIV does not cause AIDS, that fluoride is a neurotoxin, and Wi-Fi causes cancer. Uh, you don't dispute these reports, do you, Dr. Smith? In 2023, Mr.
▶ 0:59:54Lennington, you wrote in an titled, quote, "Rnominating Trump could cause a dangerous chain reaction that quote Republicans may want to think about nominating someone else." To end on a positive note, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Goer. Well, thank you, Chairman Gotham.
▶ 1:00:21DEI might as well be renamed DIIE because that's where all good things go to die. Under DEI, no longer are skills valued because because it forces people to judge a man based on his color of his skin rather than the content of his character. We're all created unique men and women in God's image, each with unique talents. In the 117th Congress, I introduced the Merit Act to prohibit government hitting hiring and contracting based on affirmative action.
▶ 1:00:51I invite all my colleagues on this dis to join me and and post sponsor that that bill in healthcare. Do you want a doctor or a dentist like me or a nurse based on my on skin color or based on my By promoting DEI in schools, you're teaching students to see color in their classmates before virtues. Now, I am not denying that discrimination doesn't exist in this world. It does.
▶ 1:01:19But DEI and affirmative action have historically failed to protect Americans. The US cannot keep repeating these same mistakes because this is called insanity. Dr. Smith, would you agree that modern DEI originated with the affirmative action? Modern DEI uh did not originate with 1964 Civil Rights Act.
▶ 1:01:45Um that definition of affirmative action meant uh a prohibition of um discriminating based on race and uh denying resources to people of color. Uh later on through case law it became a quota system. Uh so it started out with great intentions uh but uh it has devolved substantially. Okay.
▶ 1:02:06No, it just it's uh for example, I have a bill to terminate affir affirmative this is a hard word to say affirmatively furthering fair housing initiative or DEI mandates in local planning and zoning decisions. Mr. Lennington, anyone who is complicit in promoting DEI is violating the civil rights. As an attorney, what are the consequences consequences of violating the Civil Rights Act?
▶ 1:02:30Well, if you're an employer, you can be uh held liable in court for damages and uh under federal civil rights law, you can be held liable for punitive damages, too. So, there are severe consequences. Also, if you're a federal contractor, you can have your federal money taken away or if you're a federal grant recipient, you can have your federal money taken away. So, there are very harsh consequences to discriminating based on race. And everybody who does discriminate based on race should be punished.
▶ 1:02:55So um should these DEI pushing companies and schools be pursued for violating the Civil Rights Act? Yes, and I think they are actually right now under the civil fraud initiative at the US Department of Justice. They are actively investigating uh uh US companies. Um we have filed a complaint against Amazon a few weeks ago for running something called the Black Business Accelerator. uh Loheed Martin was just uh brought up in the news over denying bonuses to employees based on race.
▶ 1:03:24That's a major federal contractor. And so yeah, it is it's it's a something and a agenda of the Trump administration is to investigate and root out DEI and federal grant recipients and federal So you mentioned in your testimony that victims of DEI discrimination often suffer in silence for fear of retaliation.
▶ 1:03:44In your opinion, do DI DEI policies make a mockery of local of real discrimination cases like those against pregnant women in the workplace, for example, or individuals with Yes, it does. It doesn't help the people who need help. Uh if people have been the victims of race discrimination, we should punish the offender and provide a remedy to the victim of race discrimination.
▶ 1:04:08Taking a job away from an unaffiliated white male and giving it to someone else does not cure the discrimination. It just pushes the discrimination onto someone else. Dr. Glock, will federal costs decrease if DEI is truly abolished among across the federal government? Absolutely. Absolutely. What happens if we don't stop this madness now? What are the dangers of a prolonged DEI policies?
▶ 1:04:37Well, we'll see uh continued high c costs in defense and infrastructure contracting. We'll see increased delays. Uh we'll continue to see corruption. We'll continue uh to see uh uh more cost overruns on government projects and poor projects in general because they are selected not on price and quality but on race and sex. H there's really no shortage of dangers because of these how these in infected both the public and private sectors are with DEI.
▶ 1:05:07We're talking about compromising health care outcomes defense for our force defense reforce readiness and infrastructure construction and I just got one last question. Um where does Native Americans fit in this thing? Dr. Lock.
▶ 1:05:23uh there's significant uh contracting benefits for some Native Americans and some Native American tribes, but there's been a lot of evidence that of course the actual beneficiaries there are a small group of owners and the benefits rarely flow down to the actual disadvantaged Native Americans. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Ms. Randall. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:05:51chair, ranking member for our witnesses for being here today. Um, the terms diversity, equity, and inclusion or DEI have been thrown around today as if we're speaking on some looming threat to America, as if DEI has some hockey mask on uh committing heinous crimes in our communities and destroying our workforce and gutting our economy. Um, and to Mr. the chairman's point, we did our DNA and our family.
▶ 1:06:19We got a little Irish in us too, but um it wasn't voluntary. Um and so I'm going to take this from a little bit of a different angle or perspective and speak on the history and impact or the lack for the lack of protections uh for diversity initiatives. So why they came about in the first place because it seems really convenient that you all are kind of missing that whole point of of where we came from.
▶ 1:06:48And so let's be real where it came from. Racism, right? And this this country that we all love has a history of racism. Racism towards the very individuals that make up our diversity. Rac racism towards those striving for a equitable society and an inclusive America because inclusion that part of the DEI that just means everybody. That means white folks, black folks, brown folks, everybody.
▶ 1:07:14So racism didn't begin with one man on Pennsylvania Avenue, although he kind of leans into it a little bit in my opinion, but instead has been embedded in our very creation as a nation. So some of you may be naive to think that the trails of racism that have plagued our nation ended when black soldiers were able to give their lives in the Civil War or with the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation.
▶ 1:07:39But even in the 1860s, black American veterans returned home not to honor and reward, but to terror and violence. Denied pensions, denied land, lynched, terrorized. This is the grim reality of black history um in America. So, and that's intertwined today as we see black families face ongoing struggles. My grandfather's grandfather was a slave. Like, that's not that long ago. So, and and so I want to talk about three quick things.
▶ 1:08:10Housing, health care, and criminal justice. So, let's wrap around our heads around this because you were bringing that up, Dr. Smith. In the 1930s, the federal government created the Homeowners Loan Corporation. And it was to able to so folks could buy soon to be foreclosed mortgages on mortgages, refinance them into new government mortgages so people could keep their homes. You you know who wasn't included in that? Dr. Harper, do you know?
▶ 1:08:40Yeah. Black people. Yeah. In black Americans fought and died in World War II and every war in this country. And upon returning there were are you all familiar with the servicemen's readjustment act of 1944 Mr. Lennington? No sir. That is the GI Bill. Mr. Harper, help me out here. Who didn't get access to the GI Bill? Black people. Yeah. Okay. So, Mr. Lennington, you said that the law is colorblind.
▶ 1:09:10I don't think that you completed that thought. The law should be color blind. Is that what you intended to say? I think the the GI bill applies to all Americans, right? That's not what I asked you. Should the law should be color blind, right? Absolutely. Because the law has not been colorblind. And then I'll ask you too, just just for clarification purposes, raci racism is illegal, right? Racism is uh illegal. I'll take that as a yes. Now, I'm a data person and so because a lie doesn't care who tells it, right?
▶ 1:09:40Um but but facts and actual data, you can't get around that one. So, let's talk about, you know, how we got here. So, GI Bill, veterans fought. They're denied that they can't get the lowcost mortgages, payments for tuition, living expenses, and you know how historically most Americans built their wealth? Housing.
▶ 1:10:01The Fair Housing H, the Fair Housing Act, also known as Title 8 of the Civil Rights Act of 1968, was enacted to address and prevent discrimination in the sale, rental, and finance uh financing of housing. And you know the black ownership rate compared to white folks. Do you think it's even? There are there are large disparities in many areas. Huge disparities. 75% to 46%. Black residents are less likely to own homes.
▶ 1:10:29When they do successfully own a home, it is often devalued when being appraised compared to a similar home owned by a white counterpart. So let's talk about health care quickly. um know about the Tuskegee study on syphilis. Black folks were experimented on for 40 years. Yes. Familiar with that? Criminal justice in Missouri, black men make up 8% of the total population of Missou's population, but 45% of the jail population.
▶ 1:10:57So when we talk about health disparities, when we talk about housing, when we talk about criminal justice, all of these things are the reason why diversity initiatives came about. And so if we disregard those things and leave things as they were, guess who suffers? Black folks, brown folks, minority folks suffer all the time. So we can keep So I think my colleague said we can keep doing same the same things and expect different outcomes.
▶ 1:11:26But for black folks and brown folks and minority folks that means we get screwed over over and over. And I think you made a quote that I wrote down which I thought was interesting. Racism it impacts the hearts and minds for years to come. Right. And so I don't think it's white males because Dr. Dr. Harper gave us some data that you can't get around that white males are represented very well and I'm fine with that. Many of my good friends are white males. God bless them too.
▶ 1:11:54But my god, what are we talking about here? So, you know, I'll close on this and and and I see I'm I'm getting the hook and and I appreciate the chairman for giving me a little bit of latitude. Um, if we're t if we know that this impacts people for generations and we know that black folks and brown folks have been discriminated discriminated against generation for generations, shouldn't we be doing something about it? I yield back my Mr. Magcguire. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:12:24Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. You know, when I was growing up, our country was we were told it was the melting pot. Uh we we live in a great country. Our country is the greatest country because we were founded on the belief of meritocracy. And I think everyone in the audience would agree with this statement. Isn't it great? We live in a country where a man or a woman, regardless of party, rel uh race, religion, or creed, can work hard and achieve just about anything.
▶ 1:12:55And we could go on and on with many examples of people of all those different backgrounds succeeding in this country where they would not have a possibility of succeeding in other countries. What's so wonderful about our country is we're born with our God-given rights. They cannot be taken away. And because we're a republic and not democracy, we are a republic with representatives. Even the minority has a voice. It was a strict democracy. Only those in power would have a voice.
▶ 1:13:22But your rights that you're born with cannot be taken away whether your party is in power or not. But DEI is very harmful. It divides Americans even further and promotes racism and sexism. To me, DEI stands for didn't earn it. I'm glad this hearing has been brought up. President Trump and House Republicans have done a lot of work rolling back President Biden's disastrous DEI policies.
▶ 1:13:46As a Navy Seal, as a veteran, if somebody saved your life on the battlefield, you wouldn't care about their party, their race, religion, or their creed. We're all Americans. We should be able to disagree without being disagreeable. But the law should be colorblind. And again, I heard my colleague talk about if somebody was to do surgery on you, you would want meritocracy. you would want the best surgeon to save your life or your loved one's life.
▶ 1:14:16I also heard a colleague talk about uh diversity, but he did not talk about the the E, the equity, or the I inclusion. Everybody here loves the idea of diversity. But I don't care what color your skin is. If you're the best doctor, that's the doctor that I would want for my family. But the problem with the complete statement of DEI is the equity part, equal outcome.
▶ 1:14:41You put in 28 years of your life to be a great musician or a surgeon and someone just says, "Hey, I'm a surgeon and I have the same outcome." It's not right. In fact, it it finds it's Marxist. It def it destroys innovation and motivation.
▶ 1:14:57I'm soon going to be introducing legislation, by the way, that will pre prevent public utility commissions from authorizing rate recovery for a utility or business entity for return on equity if such uh entities business model or operations is governed by framework based on ESG or DEI or similar social or environmental agendas. DEI or ESG frameworks have incorporated into businesses models of countless utility companies operating across America.
▶ 1:15:25These frameworks typically force utility companies to procure a portion of their power from renewable energy sources and dedicate a percentage of procurement from minority owned companies. This drives up operation cost which drives up the rates charged to their customers. Rateers are forced to procure utility services through these companies. Hence why they are textbook examples of waste which unnecessarily hikes up costs.
▶ 1:15:50Since many of these companies operate across state lines or obtain power from other states, it is the duty of the Congress to act. My first question for each of you, yes or no. Do you believe DEI is rooted in Marxist ideology? Mr. Lington, yes or no? Yes. Dr. Smith, yes. Dr. Glock, a similar ideology of complete equity. Yes. And Dr. Harper. I don't know what you mean. No worries. All right. Now, I have another question for each of you.
▶ 1:16:19If you had to have heart surgery again, would you rather have a doctor who studied the hardest in school and was the most qualified to perform the surgery or a doctor that was in that position because of their race or gender? Which one would you rather have? Doc, Mr. Lton? I'd prefer a well-qualified physician. Dr. Smith, at the risk of not keeping it real, I want the best physician. Dr. Lock, the best physician. And Dr. Harper. Are only the best physicians white? I don't care what the That wasn't a question.
▶ 1:16:49Okay. Do you guys agree with uh Dr. Yes or no? Do you agree with Dr. Martin Luther King's statement that people should be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin? Mr. Lington? Absolutely. Dr. Smith. Yep. And Dr. Glock. Absolutely. And Dr. Harper. Martin Luther King would absolutely be repulsed repulsed by the politicized attacks on diversity, equity, inclusion. Yes or no?
▶ 1:17:18You got to say yes or no. No, I'm No. Listen, I'm telling you right based are we are you advocating firing a promotion based on character would also be reported by the lack of classable value stands for didn't or get rid of and the answer is yes or no. Are we hiring people based on skills and experiences or are we hiring them based on character? It should be quality.
▶ 1:17:48and not race and Saxon made it clear he doesn't want to answer the question. Why don't you go on to No, he was asking for clarification. I think that's fair. If you want to give one word to answer, it's fine as we go to the next question. Okay, we'll go to the next question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Miss Simon. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:18:18Chair. This is a very, very difficult I'm a great granddaughter of someone who had a literal yoke on her neck. A literal yoke. And I will give the four and a half minutes of my time to my people from Malvin, Arkansas, from those fields.
▶ 1:18:44And I want to be clear that four out of the five of you last year posted on your social media the words of Dr. King. And there are so few folks who actually have studied who are clear on the theology of freedom of King. Very few of you have read and studied and have sat in Ebenezer Baptist Church. So I would ask you, you keep Dr. King's name out of your mouth.
▶ 1:19:15If you like me and the many scholars who will be watching studied King, you know that he and the mothers and the fathers of the civil rights movement and of the movement for emancipation not only would be struck by the conversations in this room, but would be shattered by the consequence of lies of hatred of abuse of this administration.
▶ 1:19:39In the name of folks who worked to make this country more free, children of Abraham. For real. I want to be clear for the young people that are listening today here in this audience. This conversation is not about an acronym. It's just not. It's just not. This is a conversation. It's an attack. It's an attack on what you see right here. Now see who's on this side of the dis. was never the plan.
▶ 1:20:10It was never the plan to have people of color in positions where they would be able to speak from this place. In fact, in fact, folks had to fight tooth or nail to gain access to the front door to this capital. I want to be very clear about that. Today's hearing says quietly and actually out loud who the majority is allowed to belong in this country.
▶ 1:20:41They use Dr. King's name in deep vain, who has a place in the hierarchy that was never meant to be questioned. And the majority is leading a coordinated effort, I want to be clear, to push us back to a segregated America based on race, based on ethnicity, based on national origin, based on sex, based on sexual orientation and gender identity and disability. Inclusion as a disabled woman, they have been very, very clear.
▶ 1:21:11including folks who look different than the standardized white man in this country, folks who are disabled, folks who love differently. Those folks should not be at the center of power. That's the plan. They are motivated by a fear. A fear of a multi-racial and a multicultural democracy. A fear, a fear that freedom of co-equal citizens living as their authentic selves with pride and a fear.
▶ 1:21:40They have a fear of accountability. We must name this conversation today for what it truly is. It is a bigotry. It is a hypocrisy. Republicans, like I said before, will quote Dr. King all day, will bring forth Lincoln and will talk about Frederick Doug Frederick Douglas in the same breath that they are gutting civil rights offices in our governments.
▶ 1:22:04in the same breath where they seek to ban AP African-American studies that tells the true story of this country. It ain't just one story. It is a complete story. But folks on this dispoc,000 federal workers through mass terminations and unlawful firings.
▶ 1:22:33while, check this out, preparing draft hiring guidance that would screen job applicants for political loyalty to the administration rather than the constitution. The Trump administration put 500,000 qualified qualified federal workers with disabilities, jobs at risk. Half of those are veterans.
▶ 1:22:57The Trump administration has forced out transgender service members who have served their country with loyalty and love while elevating dangerously news anchors. To lead our nation's defense department, the Trump administration rewards loyalty over expertise, obedience over justice. These attacks are central to a broader agenda. Let me just finish this one sentence.
▶ 1:23:23that criminalizes protest, that bans books, that erases history and redefineses its national identity in narrow and violent terms. A 1950s America is what the goal of this conversation is. And some of us say hell I yield. Mr. Gil, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding this hearing.
▶ 1:23:51Uh, and thank you to all all of the witnesses for for taking the time to be here. Um, we we certainly really appreciate it. Um, Dr. Harper, I I've got a couple questions for you. Um, just starting out, do you believe that aism is a form of bigotry? Yes, you do. Yeah, I thought so because you wrote an article saying that uh agism in media discourse about Biden's reelection is an issue. Do you still believe that uh agism was an issue in the past election cycle?
▶ 1:24:20I believe that agism in any form and in any context is a problem. Do you believe that Americans who were concerned about Joe Biden's age were bigoted? I did not say that in my article, nor do I claim that now. You you said that agism is a form of bigotry. Agism is a form of bigotry, but I did not say that in my article. You cannot rep misrepresent my idea. Okay. Well, why why don't you provide your your explanation for that? Aism is a form of bigotry. people who were concerned about Joe Biden's age were agist.
▶ 1:24:51How do you square that? I'm less concerned about Joe Biden's age. I am more concerned about young people and older Americans being denied opportunity access because of their age. Do you think do you think that Joe Biden's age had a relation to his cognitive decline? That is outside of my area of expertise.
▶ 1:25:18Do you need to be an expert to to determine whether an 82year-old man is who is clearly visibly declining mentally on camera? Uh if that has anything to do with his age. I'm not a cognitive scientist. You're not. Okay. Of course you're not. Um do you think those Americans were right to be concerned about Joe Biden's age? Again, you're missing the point. The point is about the agism itself. It isn't about Joe. We're going to move on.
▶ 1:25:48Um, do you believe that America should be a colorblind society? I, for instance, should people be treated differently based on their race? It's just a yes or no question. It's not a yes or no question. It's no question.
▶ 1:26:03It is a um as I said in the beginning of my testimony um yes done right by indigenous peoples by black people by Asian-American and Pacific Islander people people be treated differently based on their race yes or no people should receive the services and the support and the remedies that are owed to them that they should be treated differently based on their race. They should receive the remedies that are owed to them because of the systemic racism.
▶ 1:26:32Do you believe that race should be considered an employer hiring I do not believe that white people are the only qualified people for jobs. I didn't say that. Nobody said that. I asked you if race should be considered an employer hiring practices. And you're not going to intimidate me by slandering me as a racist. You're also I did not call you a racist. You're not going to intimidate me. You ask forward question. It's a yes or no question. Should race be considered in employer hiring practices?
▶ 1:27:02Yes or no? I believe that diversity ought to be considered as companies and other organizations attempt to reflect their customers our country. I'll take that as a yes. Which race do you think should be preferred? I do not think that a single race should be preferred. You just you you just said that you believe that race should be considered in employer hiring practices. I don't There's going to be a transcript of this hearing. I didn't say that in that way. Okay. Why don't Why don't you explain what you believe?
▶ 1:27:31What I say and and what I believe is that the demographic composition of workplaces, our nation's military demographic composition, our Congress ought to reflect the diversity of demographic composition. Racial demographic. Is that is that what you're saying? Racial, gender. Okay. So, race should be a a factor in employer hiring Yeah. That that's what you're saying, is it not?
▶ 1:27:58Organizations ought to attempt to match the diversity of popping around the question. I am answering quite straightforwardly. As a matter of fact, determine which races are preferred. I don't I I already told you I don't have a single racial group. told me that you believe that the demograph the racial demographic makeup should be taken into account in hiring practices and it should be reflected in all levels of companies and other organizations. Let's let's talk about college admissions.
▶ 1:28:29Um if if two different children are applying for college, let's say one is white and one is black and there's one slot available, should they eval be evaluated based on the same objective criteria, test scores for instance? Are you familiar with holistic admissions? Should they be held to the same standards uh regarding test scores? I am a proponent of holistic admissions. It's just a yes or no question. Yeah. No, I can't answer that question for you as a proponent of holistic admissions. Got it.
▶ 1:28:59I'll take that as a no. Thank you, Mr. Chair. U Miss Randall, thank you so much much, Mr. Chair. You know, I stepped out of this committee for a while to go to my natural resources markup and um I think we began uh this committee with ranking member Christian Morphy's question about where the words um healthcare, financial services, and oversight were.
▶ 1:29:27And I have the same question now because um what a wild ride it was to walk into a committee uh and have a discussion about agism and President Biden. Um, you know, this committee has had some really meaningful and interesting discussions about health equity and the financial instruments we use to ensure we are reaching people.
▶ 1:29:56And I've really enjoyed um the discussion that we had about the marriage penalty and how we need to um lower barriers for families for forming in the way that is right for them.
▶ 1:30:12You know, there's no reason to have an unnecessary barrier if a family wants to get married when they have children and they shouldn't be kicked off of the support that is allowing them to thrive um just because they get married because that costs the American people more in tax dollars in the long run if their child gets on public assistance because they did because they have higher ASA scores.
▶ 1:30:35You know, I'm sure many of us have dug into uh the social determinance of health and I also know that you know, Chair Growthman, you are really dedicated to ensuring that we are supporting families forming and more children in uh being born in this country. I know that's a priority of you as a chair and certainly of our vice president and many in this administration.
▶ 1:31:06Um so I have a question for our panelists and anyone who knows please feel free to chime in. Um does anyone know the uh maternal mortality rate for black women as compared with white women in this I just know it's much higher. Much higher. Yes. Yeah. Dr. Harper, you had your hand up. Yeah.
▶ 1:31:32I was going to say that uh for black women and for indigenous women, it is exponentially higher than for white women, as a matter of fact. Yeah. I think the last data I found had um deaths per 100,000 for black non-hispanic women and 14.5 deaths per 100,000 for white women non-Hispanic non-indigenous women. That's pretty crazy, isn't it?
▶ 1:32:01And another question, does anyone know the um rates of black women OBGYNS as compared to white women OBGYNS in this No. I've done some work in health equity and and understand that there's very few uh black OBGYn females. Yeah. So it's about um 8 to 11% as compared with 68%.
▶ 1:32:34Now it seems like there hasn't been a lot of study from members on this panel on this um certainly majority uh witnesses on um this correlation but it's there like that that data is there.
▶ 1:32:52We know that when individuals have providers that share their life experience, that understand um the the challenges that they face, that share cultural connectivity, we have higher health outcomes. That that data exists.
▶ 1:33:11And we have seen incredible work in states that have pushed to lower their maternal mortality rates by increasing representation of providers of color. Mike, you can roll your eyes all you want. I see some eye rolls on the panel. Um, but it's true.
▶ 1:33:30And if we wage if we allow one party in this country to wage a war on DEI by calling it reverse racism, but let black women die in this country, let Hispanic women die, let indigenous women die, there we're not going to have the babies that we so clearly want to ensure that our country has.
▶ 1:33:56And you know, I'm not a mother, but I am a queer woman of color who has grown up in this country, who has watched my family grow up in this country, who's watched my dad, a brown-skinned man named Dave, be called Jose, because that is what his white peers saw him as. And I think if we do not open our eyes to the truth about who is dying and who is living, then we are failing the American people. I yield back.
▶ 1:34:27Okay. Uh I'll ask unanimous consent that six additional uh minutes be equally distributed to both sides which is a practical matter means three minutes for myself and three minutes from Mr. Christy. Uh so in any then I ask unanimous consent that six additional minutes be equally distributed to both sides without objection. Nobody's objecting. So ordered. Um I I'll go first here. Dr. Smith.
▶ 1:34:52One of the things I find interesting about this discussion is the idea that your value on an employee as an employee would be determined by where your ancestors come from. In other words, the implication being that there's an Asian way to be an engineer and a Hispanic way to be an engineer and a northern European way to be an engineer.
▶ 1:35:14Um could you comment on that ideology that your value of employee or the way you think as an employee comes down to I guess where your great great grandparents are from. I can tell you about some egregious examples in academia. Um but first I want to talk about this concept of uh color blindness and the fact that color blindness or the idea that color blindness is inherently racist.
▶ 1:35:42uh that comes from the DEI uh proponents uh that had interest with. If you tell people that color blindness is a bad thing, you're telling them what to think of me without my say. If you tell somebody to look at a black person and say, "Well, they're black. You need to look at them differently." You're telling them to look at me differently without my say. You cannot erase individuality, individual sovereignty from this.
▶ 1:36:10Yes, we are parts of groups, but we are also and perhaps primarily individuals. To answer your question more directly, there are some egregious pedigogies out there that I think we need to talk about like ethnommathematics for example. The idea that black kids learn math differently from white kids and therefore we need black math. That's stupid. I'm I'm going to be simple about it. It's really stupid.
▶ 1:36:39The idea that getting the right answer is somehow imper in inherently white is The idea that uh having the teacher uh be the person with the most uh authority and knowledge in the room be a bad thing is stupid. Ethnomathematics, there's ethnomposition. You write differently if you're black.
▶ 1:37:06All these things are there to divide us in certain ways and I see through it and for that I've been attacked. Thank you. Now I'll give a question to um any one of the three on the left. Um we have brought out today that this kind of affirmative action policy began in earnest. It was around informally before that, but in earnest in 1965.
▶ 1:37:35And there are outright businesses that have sprung up telling companies who to hire and who to promote and whatnot? I've talked to people in these businesses. As a practical matter, have laws in 1965 resulted in discrimination since that time?
▶ 1:37:57In other words, are firms told to hire this person or that person, particularly we talk about race today, but it's very much with regard to women as well since 1965. Mr. Glock, you want to take a crack at it? Uh, yes. There have been significant effects across the entire economy of the United States because of these laws changing how businesses uh compose their workforce, changing how uh they contract or subcontract out to others. And of course, as I Does it result in I I'm running out of time here.
▶ 1:38:25Does it result in discrimination based on sex and which men are discriminated against in 65? Absolutely. Thank you. Okay. Uh well, we'll ask Mr. Lennington too because he's a lawyer and deals with this stuff. Definitely the Affirmative Action 11246 did result in discrimination. I would say this the Civil Rights Act itself of 1964 is colorblind though. Okay. Thank you. Now, Mr. Christy. Sure. Let me let me give Dr. Harper a chance to answer that question. And then I have a couple others. Sure.
▶ 1:38:55If the answer is yes, white women have been the biggest beneficiaries. Well, let me let me just turn my attention to one issue which I still it blows my mind that in the name of DEI, we would get rid of the LGBTQ National Suicide Hotline, which receives 1.3 million calls and texts. And they're people who are specialized, and this was created during the Trump administration.
▶ 1:39:26This is not some kind of liberal um Democrat who created this particular hotline, but in the name of DEI, we are getting rid of a hotline and as a consequence, people are going to die. They're going to die and LGBTQ youth are at elevated levels of risk for suicide, four times according to the Trump administration CDC. This is not again this is not the B administration.
▶ 1:39:56This is the Trump My colleagues to their credit Republicans Lawler and Kim wrote a letter asking pleading saying please do not end this suicide hotline in the name of expuning DEI. We're getting rid of this hotline. That is idiocy. That's not excellence.
▶ 1:40:24So when we are going to talk about sacrificing excellence in the name of DEI, I respectfully disagree in the context of not only getting rid of this program, the National Suicide Hotline for LGBTQ youth, but there are countless Now, let me ask a question of Dr.
▶ 1:40:49if we didn't have slavery, if we didn't have Jim Crow, if we didn't have discrimination of any kind, I don't think there would be necessarily a need for some of the efforts that have existed since the time of Jim Crow to address some of the issues that came about because of those prior what I call original sins of America. Yeah, that's right.
▶ 1:41:17What's your what's what's your opinion on this? Yeah, that's that's right. But to be sure, they're not only historical, they are also contemporary. Women continue to receive unequal pay for equal work. LGBTQ people continue to be discriminated against because of who they love. People with disabilities continue to not receive the support and the accommodations that they need in the modern time. So, this isn't just historical, it's also contemporary. Thank you.
▶ 1:41:47I have a few seconds. I'd like to yield to Miss Randall. Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. I will just ask for unanimous consent to enter a couple articles in the agenda into the record. Um, first a Brookings article uh on who uses legacy admissions.
▶ 1:42:08I think app propo to our earlier conversation about whether or not we are actually colorblind in admissions pre um affirmative action and also uh Forb's article um from 2015 that I think speaks to uh one of our panelists uh points about whether or not there's a way to be a black engineer or a white engineer. Um, Google Photos tags two African-Americans as gorillas.
▶ 1:42:38Thank Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, for convening this hearing. Thank you to all of our witnesses for taking precious time out of your busy schedules. Thank you to our members for joining.
▶ 1:42:58But I just return to something very basic which is this committee has in its title it is the health care and financial services subcommittee of the oversight committee. The more that we talk about subject matter outside the confines of what this subcommittee is really directed to.
▶ 1:43:26the less I believe that we are going to be able to come together in performing our oversight roles and today's topic of DEI is the is a prime example of what we should not be doing on this subcommittee. I hope that we can return to a time where we can do bipartisan joint oversight with regard to issues squarely within the jurisdiction of this subcommittee.
▶ 1:43:56For instance, going after illicit vapes which continue to plague the landscape and addict millions of teenagers to tobacco and to nicotine. going after uh practices or companies or entities that might poison our baby food with toxic heavy metals.
▶ 1:44:22Going after those people who might prey on our uh youth through big tech. The list goes on and on. but doing oversight in a way that where we can come together as Republicans and Democrats and do the people's business because today I don't think we're doing the people's business.
▶ 1:44:42I think today un unfortunately we are going down a rabbit's hole in terms of a narrative that is not true and secondly that serves to divide not unite and now more than ever we need to come together. I'll just close with this.
▶ 1:45:00Yesterday we had a resolution on the four floor condemning political violence and condemning what happened in Minnesota with regard to the assassinations of elected officials and others. Republicans and Democrats came together on this particular resolution. My name happened to be in the shooters notes and I spoke on the floor as well.
▶ 1:45:24One of the things I said is this debate, what we this discussion that we had yesterday was actually exemplary in terms of the civil dialogue that we had, Republicans and Democrats coming together and how if we could just replicate that on all of our committees and in our committee work, how much better off we would be as a country.
▶ 1:45:49And so I just respectfully submit if we could potentially follow that lesson here on this subcommittee, we will be doing wonders for our country. Thank you and I yield back. Okay. Um thank you. Uh it's a long bienium. As I've told you, there are variety of health related issues and finance related issues we will get around to but the chairman of the oversight committee has given me broad discretion as to what we take up here.
▶ 1:46:17The reason I took up this topic is because I think it leads to um um division. I think intentionally it leads to division as we have been educating young people that we have a racist society and we should all view ourselves as an ethnic group constantly fighting with each other. I think that would destroy our country.
▶ 1:46:38I think uh some of the other members of this committee have pointed out when they talk about uh Marxist I think they talk about it in a a little bit different way than than I do. I think it is trying to destroy our country particularly at a time when we have so many immigrants who are people of color from all around the world to have a bureaucracy that is educating people that they should walk around with a chip on their shoulder.
▶ 1:47:04And I think on the face of it, the successes of people of color from around the world who come here, be it from Africa, be it from North Africa, be it from the Pacific, what have you, would indicate that everybody can make it in America. And I think people who talk about how horrible things are wind up only hurting the people who have to breathe this stuff in. I also tried to point out that uh diversity is not determined by where your ancestors come from. Okay?
▶ 1:47:33Everybody lives in different backgrounds, has different parents and um in so far as there is an ethnic view of engineering or an ethnic view of uh well well that's kind of absurd on its face, right?
▶ 1:47:51I mean to say that what do you as a a black man how would you approach being a dermatologist is or maybe uh how how you would approach as being uh an OBGYn is a little bit ridiculous. There's a right way or wrong way under the medical uh literature how to do things.
▶ 1:48:09I I did want to bring this up because I think if we're going to move forward in a nation, we have to look at the last 60 years and the degree to which preferences have been given. I was glad Dr. Harper brought up that the preferences frequently benefit women. But in any event, the fact that the preferences are out there should um destroy any public perception that I think the Democrat party is trying definitely to promote.
▶ 1:48:39I know uh President Biden talked a lot about white men and white male supremacy and that sort of thing which I think was incredibly divisive, but I wanted to talk about the law in the past because ultimately I want young people to know that's a lot of bunk, right? And we have actually had what I'll call reverse discrimination, including a lot of reverse discrimination for women, as Dr. Harper pointed out, uh over the last 60 years.
▶ 1:49:05Um, in any event, uh, I'd like to thank, uh, the four of you from being here today. I hope, um, we all, uh, do what we can to educate the public on the effect or the laws that have been out there over the last 60 years. So, they don't come here from other countries and think that we have this horrible, racist country, which it's not.
▶ 1:49:32I think a lot of that evidence can be shown in the wild success that people who've come here from all all over the world um have in our country. I think we also should look at some of the absurdities of this law which uh shows why we should get it behind us. the fact that I can come from a fam or a person come from a family of multi-millionaires, but if I'm a person of color, I'm considered disadvantaged.
▶ 1:50:03Um, which is ridiculous. I can be one quarter Mexican and be considered disadvantaged, which is ridiculous. Um, and I do, as uh, one of the Democrats pointed out, I do think it is very good or a huge benefit uh, in life if you come from a strong, stable family background.
▶ 1:50:30They're wonderful parents of all types, but I think uh people who want to help other Americans rise would do better on educating people or focusing on telling people the importance of trying to provide a a good strong family for every American. And I don't think enough time has been devoted to that. And indeed, people like to hide uh that benefit that people get in life. But in any event, uh I'd like to thank Mr.
▶ 1:51:00Christo Mory for being here. I think in the future we'll try to give you some nice medical issues to uh to deal with. Um and I'd like to thank the four of you. I know this is a potentially controversial issue. uh you've dipped your toes in it and I appreciate doing that and I hope you use your careers to educate the public on kind of the danger of uh of educating young people that expectations of society is
▶ 1:51:30based on where your great grandparents came from rather than what you do. So, thank you. And oh, I got to say uh with that and without objection, all members have five legislative days within which to submit materials and additional written questions from the witnesses which will be forwarded to the witnesses. If there is no further business, without objection, this subcommittee stands adjourned. Thank you for being here.