▶ 0:05:55The subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to assess the budgetary posture and strategic direction of the State Department's management family for fiscal year 2026. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Today we convene to conduct oversight of the Department of State's management family and review its budgetary posture and strategic priorities for fiscal year 2026. I want to thank our witness, Mr.
▶ 0:06:25Jose Cunningham, for appearing before us. Mr. Cunningham is both serving as the acting under secretary for management as well as the assistant secretary for administration. The Bureau of Management is the backbone of the State Department. It touches every element of America's diplomatic presence from safeguarding our personnel and Americans abroad to adjudicating passports and visas to managing our IT, our embassies and our financial systems.
▶ 0:06:54These responsibilities are vital to our national security and we appreciate the hard work of the men and women who make up the M family. But as we look ahead, we must ask whether the department's management architecture is fit for purpose in a world of rapid geopolitical change, digital threats, and rising demands for accountability.
▶ 0:07:18In our current structure, delivering results, or is it weighed down by redundancy, fragmentation, and outdated systems? We'll be examining several core issues today. the department's ability to modernize its technology, financial management, and administrative systems. How the department is coordinating across bureaus to reduce duplication and deliver costeffective services.
▶ 0:07:44Whether key security functions like counter intelligence and cyber security are integrated and mission ready. and how the department is using flexible funding tools like the working capital fund to support shared services and meet evolving global threats.
▶ 0:08:01We'll also consider whether structural reforms are needed to consolidate core management functions, streamline executive offices, and align financial oversight with policy priorities so that every taxpayer dollar advances our mission abroad. Finally, I want to emphasize the importance of a strong and collaborative partnership between Congress and the State Department.
▶ 0:08:24When we work handinand, grounded in open, timely, and transparent communication, we are best positioned to advance our shared national security and foreign policy goals. Congress stands ready to support the department's mission, and we look forward to continuing that work together. Mr. Cunningham, we look forward to your testimony and to a robust discussion of how we can work together to ensure the State Department is as agile, secure, and results driven as the world demands.
▶ 0:08:53With that, I now recognize the ranking member, my colleague from Florida, Representative Sherilis McCormack, for her opening Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you so much for being here. Um, thank you to Miss Under Secretary Collins for coming here today and shedding some light. Congress has been left in the dark as to the vision and processes at the at the department leading to many questions.
▶ 0:09:18For example, last Friday of 1,300 dedicated professionals at the State Department were handed reduction in force announcements. Several questions come to mind, including what notices were given, what was the process or the matrices to determine who was being let go, and what is the strategy behind these riffs? These are the answers Congress is looking for and have not heard from the department. The truth is Congress has not seen any roadmap or coherent strategy.
▶ 0:09:47We know more from the media about what's going on in the department. Without the department filling in the gaps, we only hear about the mishaps. For example, even the basic administration of the riffs was flawed. Employees were mistakenly issued rifts notices by the department's own admission. Many still don't know way their state where they stand, especially those on detail, other agencies or here on the capital. Others remain overseas waiting for answers.
▶ 0:10:14Moreover, reports were reports were and our our hearing saying that these notices were rifted were being given just hours only hours to pack up their belongings, saying their goodbyes and to leave. No explanation, no performance reviews, no recognitions for their service. In some cases, not even the dignity of a proper farewell. Worse still, some of these individuals were working abroad on assignment, away from their families, serving on our country, and now they're stranded.
▶ 0:10:45Some have been cut off from their official emails. Their government passports have been confiscated, and they have no clear way to get home. These other Americans, our public servants, they have been abandoned by their own country. This isn't just about policy. It's about the people who are implementing the policy. And yet today we will hear from this administration about how this was all part of a strategic reorganization.
▶ 0:11:12We hear buzzwords like right sizing, efficiency, and accountability. For these words to be true, we can't wait to hear about the systems and the harm mitigation protocol that were being used before these RF these riff decisions were made. The Trump administration's own staff has bolstered that the reorganization process was led by 10 people. We know firsthand that many of those people have no prior experiences in foreign affairs policy.
▶ 0:11:40They don't know what makes an embassy work, what makes a regional or a functional team successful. This administration chose to act recklessly, rush a reorganization without experts input and fire over 1,000 State Department staff. For all we know, they will be for we know they'll be begged to return just like we have seen in the countless other cases where Doge inspired cuts fired essential personnel and experts only to bring them back days or weeks later.
▶ 0:12:11It is important to remember at this time of global unrest, we should be doing everything we can to strengthen, not weaken our diplomat diplomatic workforce. When the world is on fire, you don't put the firefighters off the truck. You equip them, you support them, you thank them. But that's not what's happening here today. These rifts cut deeply into the heart of our diplomatic workforce. We're not just losing positions. We are in fact losing people.
▶ 0:12:40People who have spent years, sometimes decades, building expertise in areas that are critical to our national security, nuclear non-prololiferation, democratic governance, climate resilience, and regional stability. We're losing young professionals who chose public service over private sector salaries because they believed in something bigger than themselves. The American mission, diplomacy, and democracy. People who missed birthdays, anniversaries, and the times with their loved ones to represent this country abroad.
▶ 0:13:10And now they've been told they are expendable. We we've heard particularly alarming stories about cuts to consular affair despite re repeated assurances from secretary rubio that other passport proceedings would not be with the dismantling of the state department workforce in USA aid also came the dismantling of trust expertise and the spirit of Americans working at the state department rebuilding this destruction will take years we look forward
▶ 0:13:41to hear from you all of the procedures and process processes in place and look forward to working with you to help rebuild them. I yield back. Thank you to the ranking member. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. We are pleased to have acting under secretary Jose Cunningham before us today. Your full statements will be made part of the record and I'll ask that you keep your spoken remarks to five minutes in order to allow time for member questions.
▶ 0:14:09I now recognize acting under secretary Cunningham for his opening statement. Thank you, chairman, member of before honored to appear before this committee. Uh thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding the fiscal year 2026 budget for the US Department of State's management family bureaus.
▶ 0:14:32Assistant Secretary of Administration at the State Department and performing the duties of Under Secretary for Management, I'm honored to present our budget priorities, which are designed to ensure the department fulfills its mission and that every dollar we spend and every action we take results in measurable positive outcomes for the American people.
▶ 0:14:53Every day, the 13 bureaus and offices that make up the department's management family play a critical role in supporting our domestic and global workforce, our logistics, facilities, and security that underpin core diplomatic functions, and ensure the department is equipped to deliver its mission effectively and efficiently.
▶ 0:15:14Of the $28.5 billion total request, the department is requesting 11.3 billion for diplomatic engagement resources to fund the department's principal operating accounts and to provide necessary protection for the department's people, property, and data. Through our main operating accounts, MF family bureaus and offices enable operations for all department bureaus and offices and over 275 posts worldwide.
▶ 0:15:42Our embassies around the world are the front lines of dipl diplomacy, representing the United States to the world while providing critical information and identifying opportunities and challenges long before they reach Washington DC. The M family is reviewing and reforming our operational capabilities and is focused on quality, speed, and efficiency to streamline and focus on the global workforce.
▶ 0:16:07A good example of this is the department's continued commitment to our review of high- threat, high-risisk posts through the score process, where we are weighing decisions on how and whether to main maintain US diplomatic presence in dangerous locations against the policy rewards of being there. Another example is how the M family is using AI and datadriven tools, most recently to the to aid the Middle East task force in identifying risk and potential critical assets and data.
▶ 0:16:36Our office of foreign missions within the M family employs reciprocity to help ensure our personnel abroad are treated fairly and equitably by receiving states and works to protect Americans from abuses of privileges and immunities by foreign diplomats in the United States. All while safeguarding our critical national interests at home.
▶ 0:16:58I'm personally working with our inter agency partners to maintain comprehensive and effective continuity of government Taxpayers deserve a state department that serves the American people and champions the safety, security, and prosperity of our nation. In addition to our request for appropriated resources, the department plans to use $5.5 billion collected in consular fees for enhanced visa process vetting and passport enhancements.
▶ 0:17:27As Secretary Rubio has stated, a visa is not a right. It is a privilege. Individuals seeking entry into the United States must demonstrate that their presence will not harm our national interests. We anticipate 21.8 million Americans will apply for passports in 2026.
▶ 0:17:45And uh to ensure the needs of American people are met, Consular Affairs seeks to advance its information technology infrastructure, streaming uh including streamlining uh passport applications through our highly successful online passport renewal platform. Consular Affairs is well equipped as we prepare for major events like the FIFA World Cup that's going to be in 2026, the 2028 Olympics, and America 250.
▶ 0:18:11And we continue to address global challenges as demonstrated by providing information and assistance to more than 27,000 individuals during the is Israel Iran conflict. I look forward to working with Chairman Mast, ranking member Meeks and the entire committee on the State Department authorization bill. The secretary has already begun the essential initiative of restructuring the department to align our resources with policy priorities.
▶ 0:18:37This effort will eliminate redundant functions, enhance accountability, and empower our people to deliver results. Every bureau and office will have a clear responsibility and mission. I look forward to answering your questions today and hearing the committee's thoughts, particularly as you're writing your State Department authorization bill, and I thank you for your time and attention. Thank you, Mr. Cunningham. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. Mr.
▶ 0:19:05Cunningham, the State Department's fiscal year 2026 budget request includes authority to obligate 517 million in projected passport application and execution fees. And Secretary Rubio noted that quote, "Every decision on a visa application is a national security decision." End quote.
▶ 0:19:27Is part of this funding request to deal with expanded social media vetting, for Thank you for that important uh question chairman. Uh one of the great joys of my job is being able to work with consular affairs. The professionals that we have on a global basis are doing incredible work and you are absolutely right to point out that national security is first and foremost as we move forward.
▶ 0:19:51Um the consular affairs uh team works uh diligently to make sure that we are uh combating passport and visa fraud. We are also addressing issues related to human trafficking. And then of course we work closely with uh homeland security to ensure that we've got um uh the right kind of uh uh uh entry qualifications for anybody who's coming to the United States.
▶ 0:20:21Um, part of that uh effort to make sure that we are addressing national security concerns is uh making sure that we uh do everything we can uh to look at those individuals who are applying for visas overseas. Uh when they want to come to the United States, absolutely u a visa to the United States is a privilege. It is not a right.
▶ 0:20:46And particularly I think we have found given what we've seen on uh college campuses and university campuses over the last year and a half or so we want to make sure that uh we are uh vetting those applicants to ensure that they are not involved with any kind of anti-semitism or terrorism activity and part of that of course is going to be taking a look at their social media profile looking at what they have posted in the past and ensuring that when they come to the United States they're here for the reason that they say they are
▶ 0:21:17hopefully getting to know America, learning our values and studying uh in these great. So while I agree that the vetting is absolutely necessary, we do need to make sure that you have all the resources to do it well and prevent delays or backlogs under the prior administration. We saw significant backlogs in uh processing uh of passports and visas uh and all of our offices have dealt with that.
▶ 0:21:43So, is the State Department hiring more staff to engage in that expanded social media betting and and how else are you ensuring that this program remains efficient and does not create a Thank you for that question, uh, chairman. Uh, in fact, during the reorg that we've just recently announced, uh, as well as the attendant reduction in force that went with that and into effect on Friday, I'm pleased to say that consular affairs did not take a hit.
▶ 0:22:11we have the necessary manpower and workforce in place to be able to uh address uh the issues that you're you were just talking about. Uh and we won't have delays right now u for a uh passport especially through this new uh online passport renewal system. We're finding that folks are able to get passports in anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks. Average time is about uh uh four uh three weeks right now.
▶ 0:22:38Uh and then for visas, the median uh time for uh receiving a visa is about one month. Okay. Uh state's fiscal year 26 request includes an $81.7 million reduction in worldwide security protection funding for Iraq reflecting equipment returns and a draw down of operations.
▶ 0:22:58As the department considers scaling back its presence at Embassy Baghdad, what steps are being taken to ensure that core diplomatic functions such as intelligence gathering, crisis response and inter agency coordination can continue safely and effectively. It's a excellent question sir.
▶ 0:23:17I must say that um not only pertaining to uh Baghdad and Iraq on a regular basis we are uh uh looking at our posture our global posture from a security uh perspective um I'm happy to say that the uh 28.5 billion uh request that we have uh for FY26 is about 48% less than uh the the FY25 uh budget.
▶ 0:23:44And so in essence, what that means is we're able to uh return or at least save about $20 billion plus for the American taxpayer. Part and parcel of that, of course, is just finding opportunities overseas for us to reduce our cost while at the same time maintaining the security posture that we need uh not only uh multi- bilaterally but also multilaterally.
▶ 0:24:08You are right to point out that in Baghdad, we have found uh significant cost savings by closing down our uh fixed and rotary wing uh aircraft u operation there. We are looking for many many more uh uh opportunities for cost containment in uh Baghdad in particular just given the changing nature of the relationship that we have uh in Iraq but also uh broader more broadly in the Middle East.
▶ 0:24:38Uh, thank you. My time has expired. I now recognize the ranking member uh, Representative Sherless McCormack for five minutes of questioning. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to go and start um, digging in through the reduction in force that recently transpired. There's been a lot of um, questions about what happened in the processes.
▶ 0:24:58So I I wanted to give you the opportunity to tell us what processes were in place to ensure that it was actually merit-based and what were you what did you take in consideration when you released these It's a fantastic question and one that I've been intimately involved with for the past few months. I had the good opportunity of uh working at export import bank for the first eight weeks, nine weeks of this administration.
▶ 0:25:21And when I moved to the state department to assume this role, um I uh encountered a state department under the leadership of Senator of uh Secretary Rubio uh that was talking in very broad strokes, but uh absolutely doing everything it needed to do to get down to brass tax and how we make America safer, stronger, or and more uh uh prosperous uh through a reorganization.
▶ 0:25:48The reorganization was actually done in a very thoughtful and organized way when it came to the reduction in force. It was a datadriven exercise uh whereby we first and foremost looked at the uh organizational structure that we needed in place in order to carry out uh the America first uh foreign policy agenda. So we put the organizational structure in place. As you can imagine, we found a lot of waste, fraud, and mismanagement along the way.
▶ 0:26:17And those are uh that's really what constituted when you hear about uh offices that were uh eliminated and removed that's how we came up with the first organizational structure. I focus on that reorg first uh because what we did was then in you know to follow on with that to ensure that we had the right workforce that matched and aligned that organizational structure. We looked at positions. We did not look at names. We did not look at titles.
▶ 0:26:45We looked at positions uh that were necessary for us to carry out that foreign uh that America first foreign policy agenda and worked very very closely with the office of personnel uh management OPM to ensure that we had the right folks in the foreign service in the civil service uh and we also looked at it from a contracting perspective. What were some of your data points? I just don't want my time to run out. What were some of the data points that you looked at?
▶ 0:27:09because as we're talking to more and more of our diplomats, they're concerned about the merit-based justifications for who actually was right? Um I'm you're absolutely right to point out that uh a meritbased uh uh personnel policy is absolutely vital. One of the first things uh President Trump did in this administration was to ensure through executive order that we had a meritbased uh workforce not only at the state department but throughout government.
▶ 0:27:39Included in that was taking a good hard look at our diversity inclusion uh and equity rules. And so what we have today through this datadriven uh process that we used for the reorganization is that we have um uh uh we made sure that we were looking at skill sets. We're in the foreign service so we also wanted to look at uh language capabilities. We also wanted to look at their experience.
▶ 0:28:02We were able to match up just about all of that with and overlay it with the organizational structure in place. We did that. This is actually worth the uh uh my time is running out so I'm sorry. I just want to jump in. I also want to look at some of the mishaps that we're actually seeing in the reports of people who were let go and who have been hired back. Was that anticipated when you guys were setting out your process and Um, if I have I have not heard of mishaps.
▶ 0:28:30I there we have found an anomaly or two that absolutely needed to be addressed and if uh if you yourself ranking member uh hear of an anomaly and like to be able to share that with us, we would uh we'll absolutely uh look at that. We're looking at all of those in a case- byase basis. And do you have a course correction plan that you're going to be using going forward in case these happen? Absolutely.
▶ 0:28:51Because we we we want to make sure that we get this right, not only from a personnel perspective, but also perhaps even more importantly from a missiondriven perspective to make sure that we're able to uh uh really deliver on the America first foreign policy agenda. And before my time runs out, we've been hearing more and more about people who were actually let go, who were supposed to be rotating to other countries and other posts. Um, and they were actually supposed to go within a day, two days, a week.
▶ 0:29:18So, those people who are no longer going to that new post, are they being replaced? And do those people have the same expertise as the people who were let go? Yeah, I I uh thank you for that question, uh, Congresswoman. I will say that more than likely you're referring to some of the folks that uh the the effective date of the reduction in force and the reorganization was May 29th.
▶ 0:29:42And as you probably know, uh there was a um uh a uh a stall in us being able to move on that uh reorg uh because of a a district judge in San Francisco.
▶ 0:29:56Um, and so depending on where the individual was on May 29th when the secretary signed that reorganization in final, uh, that probably is what dictates where that person is today and whether or not they're going to be able to go on to a a forward assignment or if they got uh, caught in an office that actually was Thank you. I yield back. The gentle lady's time the gentle lady's time has expired. I now recognize the gentleman from California, Representative Isa, for five minutes.
▶ 0:30:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to follow up briefly on on that. So, because of a what turned out to be a wrongful action of a rogue judge in this case who was overturned, people were basically rifted and not given one or two days notice. they were by definition given a substantial period of time because the the original the original date versus the effective date was two months apart. Right.
▶ 0:30:57That's absolutely right, Congressman. And I thank you for pointing that out. I must say that I'm from the corporate world as you are uh and you know that oftentimes when we are uh doing a reorg or actually implementing a reduction in force, this often happens uh in the corporate world without any notice whatsoever. In this instance, uh the workforce at the State Department knew this was coming weeks if not months in Okay.
▶ 0:31:21Following up on a couple of areas, uh as you know, Chairman Mast has set all of us as committee members, I'm as vice chair, the the subcommittee chairman to do a full reorganization of the State Department. So this is one of the reasons it's so important was to follow your reorganization and mirror our activity. There are a couple of areas of concern uh that we I want to touch with you briefly.
▶ 0:31:48One is 2001 the state department has had a dual relationship in in visas with homeland Just from the time you've been there, shouldn't this committee find a way to harmonize that so we not have a he says, she said as we've had where your people look at somebody but they can't say you're in.
▶ 0:32:16In fact, the uh the visa will disappear into Homeland Security for an undetermined period of time and without the ability for State Department to answer when they're going to be cleared or not cleared. Is that correct? Thank you, Congressman, for that. Um, I do manage the consular affairs bureau at the State Department and I must say that we work handin glove and actually quite well with the Department of Homeland I'm going to interrupt you. No, you don't. It doesn't work. It hasn't worked for 20 plus years.
▶ 0:32:46So, I I would I would ask you to please look into it with a different eye. look into it as to the people who quite frankly may be coming back to the United States multiple times, may be coming back for school having been in the US and they cannot get a timely answer and the authority does not lie with the State Department.
▶ 0:33:08But ultimately that's the odd situation is we rely on you to do the interviews and then it disappears into Homeland Security. I'm not bad homeland security. I'm proposing that harmonizing the authority to a single place of accountability may in fact be something this committee looks I promise to look into that. Sir, I'm going to look on to one that that is near and dear to my heart.
▶ 0:33:34Ever since the tragedy at uh Benghazi, we've recognized that after the departure of George W. Bush's administration, the State Department went back to its old standard at Obo of simply wanting to do one-of-a-kinds beautiful palaces like the one in uh in London. I call it the Crystal Palace with huge cost overruns and time delays. You currently have 24 embassies and consultants under construction.
▶ 0:34:04Most are, if not all, are delayed. 15 are delayed more than two years. The Lebanon uh embassy is at about twice its original forecast, is more than six years under construction, is not completed, and we continue to rent 40 separate uh buildings now, making it the most expensive embassy in the world. What are you planning to do?
▶ 0:34:30What will the State Department do to, and I'm asking you to put your businessman hat on, returning to a standard design? Returning to a schedule to work, returning to fixed contracts that have penalties for not making deadlines, obviously with some recognition of war and other events that can be justified.
▶ 0:34:52But when we're talking about simply cost overruns, um, change orders that they ask for and then bill you for and the like, what are you going to do to change that to get us out of a situation in which we cannot give you enough money to meet the requirement of making our State Department personnel safe around the world unless we change the time schedule and the cost for these uh, buildings. Thank you for that, sir.
▶ 0:35:19Um, I am thrilled to be able to work handin glove with our professionals at OBO. Uh, they do an incredible job on a global basis. I must say, pardon me. Pardon me. I'm just going to interrupt briefly. They are the source of that overrun, the source of those decisions to make one of buildings. So, I appreciate what you're saying, but what what can we do to change us? Under General Williams, we had a program that was working.
▶ 0:35:44It was reversed when President uh Obama came in and it's never been sent back to a process that would give us timely delivery. One very specific thing, Congressman, that we are doing as a result of this uh reorganization is looking exactly at one of the points you made was at contracts and the procurement function.
▶ 0:36:04uh we have consolidated in this reorganization contracts and procurement, IT, human resources, finance and accounting and the uh the uh contracts and procurement function that took place in OBO has now been moved to a new uh it's not a bureau but it's a director within the management bureau that will focus just on global acquisitions and so we'll have a much tighter more um uh unified opportunity to look at those contracts and I'm happy to work uh with you and your
▶ 0:36:34team to make sure that we f follow the kind of rules that you're looking Thank you. And I'm pleased and I thank you for your indulgence. We yield back. Thank you, Representative Isa. Uh I'm now going to start a second round of questioning. Uh and I know there are other members uh on their way as well. Uh Mr. Cunningham, in your testimony, you mentioned uh the SCORE process as a key mechanism for evaluating whether to maintain a diplomatic presence in high threat environments.
▶ 0:37:03Can you elaborate on how the score process informs strategic decisions about overseas posts, including how it was applied in the case of US Embassy Baghdad in the department's broader posture in Iraq? Uh, absolutely, Chairman. Thank you for that uh question.
▶ 0:37:18uh one of the uh I'm I'm I'm blessed to be able to work handinand glove with our uh uh under secretary for uh policy uh foreign policy uh Allison Hooker on a regular basis in the SCORE process. Part of that process is making sure that we support the execution of the America first foreign policy.
▶ 0:37:41Uh and through that process, we're ensuring that we're looking at economic budget issues as well as security issues to determine whether or not and we do this on a regular basis, whether or not that presence uh is necessary for our mission. Uh quite frankly, today if we have a presence in a particular country, it's because that's part of our policy and uh I support the execution of that policy.
▶ 0:38:07uh but am part of the the process whereby we're looking as to whether or not we need to make any changes in our footprint on a global basis and we'll adjust our poss uh policy accordingly. I appreciate it. Thank you sir. Uh we'll now recognize uh for five minutes representative Mume. thank you very much. Mr. Mr.
▶ 0:38:32Cunningham, I want to ask you a couple of real simple questions and try to get your honest reaction here. Um, as you know, this uh past Friday, the State Department laid off over 1,300 employees, including,00 of which uh were civil service employees and 246 which were foreign service officers.
▶ 0:39:00That figure is in addition to the roughly 1,600 employees who have left the agency since January, many of whom will say that they left under duress. At the same time, the Foreign Service Institute has indefinitely postponed any and all promotions, holding up promotions and shutting the entry point for new foreign service officers to get in.
▶ 0:39:29So, I'm disturbed by the sheer number of employees fired, uh, but also by the seemingly indiscriminate nature and manner of those firings. And if I'm incorrect, I certainly would welcome your comments on some of this.
▶ 0:39:46I I'm concerned also about the loss of expertise from the civil service and foreign service employees that had dedicated uh their lives quite frankly to serving uh this government, this nation and the American people.
▶ 0:40:01So, can you for the sake of the committee here on the record give us a sense of what you've done since being there to ensure that the recent staff reductions at the State Department will not harm will not harm the ability of the United States to engage in important diplomatic work. Thank you, Congressman.
▶ 0:40:26I can assure you right from the very start that uh what we're doing will not disturb uh the important mission that we have. I would welcome the opportunity just to talk to you a little bit about um how that uh uh America first foreign policy is in place and how what how that relates to the reorganization as well as the reduction in force that you uh were so specific about.
▶ 0:40:52When Secretary Rubio came to office, he pledged that we were going to make foreign policy uh the purview of our ambassadors, of our embassies, of our operations overseas. And in order to support that uh that overseas element, we decided that we needed to streamline and consolidate our operations here in Washington DC. And through the reorganization as well as the attendant reduction in forces, we were able to do that.
▶ 0:41:20Indeed, if you look at the Well, let me let me reclaim my time here. I don't have that much of it. Secretary Rubio was before this full committee and uh we entertained a number of State Department persons, the last of which was just a couple of days ago.
▶ 0:41:35I want to know though, have you completed since you're saying this will not impact negatively, have you completed an assessment of the impact and the loss of expertise from the State Department officials that have, as I said before, been fired or let go this year. That's a tremendous brain trust, a tremendous wealth of experience.
▶ 0:41:57And so when you extrapolate that out of an existing workforce, I need to get some idea of what assurances were were made or what assessment was done to be able to say that there is no impact. Uh Congressman, the uh the assessment to actually implement the reorganization and the attendant reduction in force has was done long in advance and of course we executed on that on Friday.
▶ 0:42:25Um it would be shortsighted of me to say that we've already done an assessment as the to of the impact on what happened on Friday just a few days later less than a week uh since that. I can assure you that there are plenty of us in fact even later this afternoon when I get back to the building we're having our second meeting of uh a group of folks who were responsible for the implementation of the uh reorganization to make sure that we're looking at any potential nom anomalies that have come to our attention. Good.
▶ 0:42:54And I hope that you would get back to us with those anomalies or to say that there were none or to say that this assessment once it is done shows no negative impact. Mr. Cunningham, 36 months ago, the Government Accounting Office released four recommendations, all of which were aimed at improving diversity, equity, and inclusion, as well as accessibility uh in the State Department's workforce.
▶ 0:43:20The previous administration made some progress in addressing those, but all those those recommendations, four of them remain open. Is there any plan in place uh by Secretary Rubio or yourself or others to address the government accounting office's recommendations or since it is listed as DEI, can we assume that under this leadership at the State Department at the White House that they are dead under this uh administration?
▶ 0:43:49Sir uh we have eliminated uh diversity and inclusion initiatives throughout government that includes the state department. We have now uh moved to an entirely merit-based system that looks at skill sets, language capabilities and experience in our identification uh recruitment, hiring and promotion and retirement of our workforce on both the uh civil service side as well as the foreign service side.
▶ 0:44:18I understand that my time is expiring, but I I'd be less than honest if I didn't say I don't know how a less diverse workforce will affect the efforts of the United States to engage with the vast amount of different peoples and cultures that are relevant to our national interests. I don't know how we do that when we become less diverse. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Gentleman yields back. We now go to the gentleman from California, Mr. Sherman, for five minutes. I want to echo the gentleman from Maryland. I can't agree with him more.
▶ 0:44:47The world is diverse and uh we've you're the job of the state department is a relationship with the world. Okay. You've got to decide how much effort to put in the process of giving visas particularly business visas, tourist visas. Business people come here to buy products, some of them made in my district. Tourism is a big deal for Los Angeles.
▶ 0:45:12And time and again I get calls from people who are delayed for a year, two years, sometimes three or four months. I've was in the business world before I came here. I know our chair has spent a lot of time in the business world. I've never seen a good business deal that can wait three months for the meeting.
▶ 0:45:35Has the State Department ever even tried to calculate the enormous harm that you do to our economy by basically telling people in a lot of countries, don't try to do business in the United States. It's a huge hassle. Don't try to visit the United States. There are beautiful vistas elsewhere and it's a huge hassle to get here. Has there been any costbenefit analysis of the decision to have what has got to be the slowest visa granting process of any foreign ministry in the world?
▶ 0:46:07Thank you, Congressman, for the question. Uh it's a supreme joy of mine in this uh uh seat to be able to manage consular affairs at this Department of State. Um we are responsible for uh taking a look at visa fraud, passport fraud, human trafficking, uh illegal immigration on a regular basis. You specifically are pointing out uh the the It was pretty much a yes no question. Has there ever been an analysis? The answer is yes. The answer is yes.
▶ 0:46:37So you have a an analysis that says that the delays in issuing business and tourist visas are not costing America uh billions of dollars of economic The median wait time for all visas for uh consular affairs globally is one Oh that's great if you business deal wants to wait a month.
▶ 0:47:01And by the way, I get calls all the time, particularly from India, from Pakistan where the delay is four, five, six months. Would the gentleman yield to I'll yield to the chair. Following up on that, since we we do see the same uh situation, you're saying how long between the time you actually get the appointment, you actually get there.
▶ 0:47:25you are aware that it can be months, many months, sometimes beyond belief before somebody can get the appointment that goes there. So the one month may be a wonderful average, but you know, Abraham Lincoln told us you could draw you could drown if you were six foot tall in the average 5- foot depth river. The average doesn't tell the story that the gentleman's talking about of delays of months before you even get an appointment.
▶ 0:47:54And I would hope that you would do the analysis because there are a lot of businesses that can't wait a month and a lot of places in the world where that visa to first get the appointment and then the appointment is a month after you get it is is many many months. Okay, we fired a bunch of people. You wanted to reduce the number of staff and it makes sense to look at the organization chart and see some boxes and say, "Well, we don't need a person in that box.
▶ 0:48:19We don't need a person in that box." But what I understand you did is if you had a superb employee in the box that we don't need, you didn't move them to another box. You fired them and then you could have an underperforming employee in a box you're keeping and you're keeping that employee.
▶ 0:48:40Did you evaluate the capacities and performance of individuals and then put them in the boxes you wanted or did you just fire anybody who was in a box that seemed like uh we don't need that box? Uh Congressman, the reduction in force is all about functions and not the individual, not people.
▶ 0:49:01Yes, but the if you want to perform this function and you have a great person that's performing a function you don't why not keep the great person and have them do the function you want instead of firing people based because in the state department you guys are moving people around from function to function. It's a game of musical chairs. If somebody happened to be six months ago a great performer in a great function they still have a job.
▶ 0:49:28But if somebody was a great performer and they've recently been transferred to a function you don't need that great performer is out right in this instant congressman if someone has been rifted uh start last Friday they will have the opportunity to apply for a job that absolutely fits their skill set their experience and their language capabilities if that's part of the job we have a we have a as far as immediate decisions you've retained certain underperforming employees
▶ 0:49:59and you've terminated some spectacular employees uh because you didn't evaluate the individual employees and their all of their experiences. You just said, "Well, if in the musical chair games it is a state department, they happen to be in a box we don't need. They're out. They can apply for something else unless if they're really good, they'll find a job in the private sector." I believe I've uh have I gone too long. Yeah. Well, you've gone as long as I'm going to let you go, Mr. Thank you. Thank you. We now go to the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr.
▶ 0:50:28Keading, for five minutes. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just concerned uh when you fired over a thousand employees. Uh and you know, eventually uh you're going to have to replace those people, new people coming in. Uh what's your pitch to those people after you've just fired a thousand career people? Congressman, I'm I'm afraid I didn't hear the exact question.
▶ 0:50:55What's the I just said you just fired more than a thousand employees, Uh eventually you're going to have to recruit and bring new people into the service. So, what's your pitch to these people after you've just fired these career people that are thinking of making a career here? I mean, what do you say to them? Maybe you'll get lucky. Maybe if you take an allegiance to something beforehand.
▶ 0:51:19I mean what you know what if you had a son or daughter and they're thinking of career uh and they want to become a foreign service person and have a career here. Would you be worried that that embarking on a career where Korea people just got ruthlessly fired? Congressman, there's never a perfect time to conduct a reduction in force. We are very aware of that.
▶ 0:51:46We took uh all the we did everything we could with as much heart as we could when we went through and exercised and implemented this reduction in force on Friday. Please, you know, I have five minutes, but I don't believe that. You know what my son or daughter would call that? BS. Okay. You This was just done so ruthlessly. So So let's not even go there because because I don't have time for that. I'm I'm concerned about the future after you've done this. And and and I'm concerned too.
▶ 0:52:15So many of the people that I know that have made careers and people that I talked to that had careers, a lot of those things occurred in the university. Have have you ever spoken to US diplomat in residence? I have, sir. Yes. Do you see the value of that position? Uh, in many instances, absolutely. So, you've got these young people.
▶ 0:52:37What would you tell them if it was your son or daughter, uh, you know, about job I will say I congressman you are perhaps uh referring to some of the uh details and fellowships that we have in the state department that uh take place with other government agencies with DoD with uh uh non-governmental organizations with state and local governments as well as with as well at the college stage post college stage they're thinking making careers
▶ 0:53:08you know this is going to you don't think this would damage the future potential to hire the the best going forward. We made a concerted effort, sir, uh to put in place a an organizational structure that matched the foreign policy goals of this administration. Well, I'll tell you this, those goals don't include recruiting the best uh down the road coming forward.
▶ 0:53:35I'm also concerned too when you're looking at major events like the Olympics in 2028 and what's going, you know, are we going to have the people in place? I know the Secretary of State said, "Don't worry about it, but I don't see how in some of these countries we're going to be have the people in place to do big functions like that." Congressman, we feel quite good about being able to welcome visitors to the United States for uh the the FIFA World Cup as well as uh America 2025
▶ 0:54:05and the Olympics in uh 2028. Uh I will tell you that uh the majority of the folks that we expect to come uh for uh the FIFA World Cup uh will be coming from uh Mexico and Canada. So uh those folks for the most part have visas and are able to come into the United States. We have u all of government effort to ensure that we are prepared and ready for the onslaught of visitors that we absolutely welcome to the US.
▶ 0:54:35Remember those words when the time comes uh because the way you're progressing with this and the the things you're doing don't inspire confidence that that's going to be the place and invariably you can look right down this row and it's our offices that get these calls. uh all the time when these things aren't undertaken properly.
▶ 0:54:53Uh I just want to touch too I don't have much time on the cuts to the consulate offices that have occurred uh and the danger you know the dangers actually that represent not having those in place uh in places like France and Uh well, I can tell you that uh with the reorganization and the reductions in the force that took place last Friday, there are no cuts to the number of personnel in uh the consular affairs bureau.
▶ 0:55:22Uh we have uh part of that whole My time's running out. So the uh cuts in the there's no cuts in the fraud prevention office. There's no cuts in the consular systems and technology No, sir. That's not the information I have. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. We now go to the gentleman from New York for his five Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield my time to the ranker, uh, Ms. Shilis McCormack.
▶ 0:55:54Thank you, Representative. I just want to follow up on some questions. My biggest question is that you mentioned that you were directed to reduce by 15% for M and what was the basis of that number? How did you derive that 15% that was supposed to be cut? That 15%, Congresswoman, uh was not just for the uh M family of bureaus, but across the board at the State Department.
▶ 0:56:18When we uh started uh the reorg the discussions regarding reorganization, we weren't looking at a specific number to cut a certain percentage, but rather we worked with our under secretaries with career and uh uh uh career and foreign service uh personnel to make sure that we got that so that 15% was across the board across the board at the state department. Yes. My next question I just want to clarify some statements.
▶ 0:56:44So when it comes to the consular affairs, there seems to be a discrepancy as far as the cuts because we have reporting that there were cuts made and you're saying that there were no cuts made. Is that correct? There were there were no no there were no cuts in consular affairs. I I would just hearken back to what I said before. It it so our information that we have is different. If we can reconcile that with we'd be happy to work with you on that.
▶ 0:57:06I think a lot of it stems back to the fact that the decision and the memo that was uh signed for uh reorganization and reduction in force is effective May 29th and a lot of any of those people that were impacted were probably in a different place maybe in an office that had been eliminated on May 29th. Well, as long as we can reconcile it because information we have it does say that there were cuts and so we want to see that because we're concerned about the impact that those cuts would have specifically on processing passports and visas.
▶ 0:57:35So once we get that, we can reconcile that and move forward. The second thing I wanted to talk about also were some of the cuts that were made um to the personnel in Syria. Now Syria has been an area that's been very fragile and we're starting to see some um an uptick or some hope in Syria. Reducing the number of the regional experts working on Syria at the same time as the State Department is working on reopening its embassy in Damascus is not just counterintuitive, but it also seems like a step backwards.
▶ 0:58:02It puts American citizens directly in harm's way across the Middle East. I recently turn returned from a Kodell with chairman Lawler in which the issue was raised directly. What steps are you taking actually to protect and make sure that we have adequate amount of personnel in Syria, but also to support so we can make sure Syria does not regress? Thank you, Congresswoman, for that uh very good question.
▶ 0:58:25I'm thrilled to be able to have been part of the initial discussions about the changes that took place as a result of President Trump's trip to the Middle East uh a little more than a month ago. It was during that time that he was able to the president himself was able to meet with the president of Syria and as a result of that quite frankly everything in the Middle East has changed.
▶ 0:58:46We are looking forward to giving the Syrian people and the Syrian government an opportunity to an an economic and and and diplomatic opportunity to deal with the rest of the world. As in this seat as under secretary of management, I worked handin glove with uh our u operations center task force which was uh put in place to make sure that we uh looked at all of because my time is running out.
▶ 0:59:12um we want to know about implementation and the proper number of personnel to carry out that implementation. So with those cuts um we want to know how you're going to fill it. Do we do they do they have the accurate expertise to make sure that we're successful in Syria? I have very good news for you, Congresswoman. Uh I do work very very closely with our ambassador to Turkey. Uh his name is Tom Bareric. He is also the special envoy to Syria and he's already made a couple of trips to Damascus to meet with the president of Syria.
▶ 0:59:42all of the many of the functions that uh are required to get the proper uh uh uh proper security in place and get the right team in place in order for him to make that trip successful and to raise the flag above our uh embassy there, our uh u ambassador's residence there on May 29th uh fall under the purview of the uh management bureau and uh I was thrilled to be a part of that.
▶ 1:00:11We are looking every single day, every time he wants to take a trip to the region, we work handinand glove with uh so as my time is running out, could we receive from your office specific details of what steps were taken so we can be able to make sure that we're on an upward course and not a downward trajectory by having the proper amount of personnel. I'm happy, Congresswoman, to work with you on that. Yes. Thank you. I yield back. Uh Mr. Cunningham, I just want to uh follow up on one thing.
▶ 1:00:38In in today's threat environment, cyber security and counter intelligence must be fully integrated into all levels of state department operations with functions spread across various bureaus and families. Coordination and clarity are critical. How is the Bureau of Management overseeing counter intelligence and cyber security functions departmentwide? Thank you chairman for that question.
▶ 1:01:03In today's multi-olar world where we are facing challenges that are so unique to the 21st century, obviously defending against cyber attacks is an very important function of the management bureau.
▶ 1:01:16We've identified and uh responded to uh two very specific nation state cyber attacks recently and we're doing everything we can to ensure that um uh our uh records retention and records review of anything uh related to WhatsApp and signal are part and parcel of what we do.
▶ 1:01:35We also have done something through this reorganization sir to make sure that um all of the in fact I think it was seven or eight bureaus uh in the department had their own IT uh shops and so we have consolidated that under under our chief information officer uh and we'll get the economies of scale that we need out of that operation.
▶ 1:01:58Uh furthering up on this, what steps are being taken to embed counter intelligence awareness and training into the daily operations of overseas Mhm. Uh that's a very important question, sir. There are a number of uh trainings that uh take place. In fact, we're uh re-imagining uh the kind of training that is necessary. Earlier, I think one of your colleagues mentioned the foreign service institute.
▶ 1:02:25We're uh making sure that we have the right kind of uh training and skill sets uh in place that will address any uh counterterrorist issues before they head off uh and go overseas. In fact, I'm I think next week I'm going through a two-day training just to to uh make sure that I understand what that training entails and make sure that it also matches uh our goals in the in the America first foreign policy agenda. Appreciate that.
▶ 1:02:50But I thank the witness uh for his valuable testimony as well as the members for their questions. I thank the ranking member uh as well. The members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for the witness and we will ask you to respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rules, all members may have 5 days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record subject to the length limitations. Without objection, the committee stands