▶ 0:15:28Are you ready? Well, good morning. Chair calls a subcommittee on energy to order and the chair recognizes himself for five minutes for an opening statement. And welcome to today's hearing, strengthening American energy, a review of pipeline safety policy. And I want to thank our witnesses for participating We will examine the pipeline and hazardous material safety administration's FIMSA pipeline safety program.
▶ 0:15:58FIMSA is a Department of Transportation agency tasked with developing and enforcing federal safety regulations for the nation's onshore pipeline infrastructure and the transportation of hazardous materials. The witnesses before us represent different segments of FIMSA regulated community and can provide important acquis perspectives on the reauthorization of FIMSA. Pipelines are the safest and most efficient mode of transportation for oil, natural gas, liquid energy products, and hazardous materials.
▶ 0:16:28And they play an instrumental role in delivering the products that drive our nation's economy forward. The agency has about 3.3 million miles of pipelines under its purview. In order to ensure these pipelines are operated in a safe and reliable manner, FINSA partners and coordinates coordinates with states to administer pipeline safety programs and inspect infrastructure within a state's boundaries.
▶ 0:16:55FINA was last authorized in protecting our infrastructure pipelines and enhancing safety act, the pipes act of 2020 through fiscal year 2023. It is my belief that we can work in a bipartisan fashion in this Congress with our House and Senate colleagues to reauthorize FINA to continue carrying out its mission and associated duties. This subcommittee has a responsibility to ensure FINA maintains a strong focus on safety and operates within its statutory authorities.
▶ 0:17:26The pipes act of 2020 included several statutoily mandated rulemakings that never fully got out of the gate under the previous Today, the subcommittee will examine implementation of the pipes act to ensure that FISMA is on track to carry out congressional intent in a cost effective and workable manner. Additionally, the subcommittee will examine new challenges and opportunities for pipeline safety.
▶ 0:17:51For example, the replacement of aging infrastructure must be a top priority for FINSA states and pipeline operators, but it presents cost and operational challenges, especially as energy demand is projected to increase significantly in the immediate future. The upgrading of our natural gas network must be prioritized to ensure the safe transportation of natural gas and other important energy sources and products.
▶ 0:18:18While substantial progress has been made in replacing aging pipes, there is still work to be done. I look forward to the hearing from our witnesses on how FINA can help address the the remaining 1% of the iron distribution pipes. American innovations and net new technologies like artificial intelligence technology also present opportunities to bolster the quality of risk assessments and advance safety towards our collective goal of zero incidents.
▶ 0:18:48However, these technology will also pose challenges to information and operational security. It is important that FISNA reauthorization gives the agencies the tools needed to have an effective approach for the opportunities and challenges ahead. In his conf confirmation hearing last week, Paul Roberti, President Trump's nominee for FISMA administrator, committed to pursuing opportunities to utilize new cost-effective technology to enhance safety.
▶ 0:19:17The subcommittee hopes to collaborate with FIMSA and pipeline operators in this endeavor. as we look at the reauthorization that must prioritize the improvements the AY's core responsibility which is safety. I'm concerned that the previous administration advanced extraneous priorities and set safety out to the side.
▶ 0:19:35However, President Trump's administration has recommitted to this critical mission and I believe this committee can produce a reauthoration reauthorization that maintains safety as a cornerstone of pipeline safety of this pipeline safety program. Pipelines are imperative to public safety and the energy security of our nation. I look forward to hearing from the pipeline operators today as we build on American energy leadership. And I want to thank again our witnesses for being here today.
▶ 0:20:03And I yield back and at this time recognize the gentle lady who the from the 14th district of Florida who is the vice or I'm sorry the uh ranking member of the subcommittee for five minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:20:17Well, thank you Mr. Chairman and good morning everyone. Uh today's hearing is an important reminder of the role of this committee of ensuring the safety of the public and our energy infrastructure. Congress created the pipeline and hazardous material safety administration in 2004 and we charged it with ensuring the safety of nearly 3.3 million miles of pipelines across the country. Now pipelines can be dangerous. There are many hundreds of pipeline safety incidents every year.
▶ 0:20:47many that result in death and injury. That's why FIMSA's work in setting safety standards and inspecting interstate pipelines is critical. And for years, Democrats have been focused on ensuring that FIMSA has adequate resources and a strong professional workforce.
▶ 0:21:04After a number of deadly accidents and the growing magnitude of aged, leaky, and unsafe pipelines, Congress passed the Pipes Act of 2020 to improve the safety of gas gathering lines and pipelines while also addressing wasteful and dangerous methane gas leakages.
▶ 0:21:23Congress followed on in 2021 in the infrastructure investment and jobs act and allocated $1 billion over five years for natural gas distribution infrastructure safety and modernization grants to help replace leakprone pipelines. I noticed in your opening, Mr. Chairman, you said the Trump administration has recommitted to safety. Oh, no.
▶ 0:21:45To the contrary, the Trump administration has halted those safety and modernization grants earlier this year, but multiple lawsuits were filed by states, nonprofits, and local communities challenging the freeze. And on April 17th, a federal judge ordered the Trump administration to reinstate funding, ruling that the freeze was arbitrary and comprecious and violated the law.
▶ 0:22:10The Department of Energy and EPA were required to resume dispersement of already awarded safety uh grant funds. The Trump administration also is failing to follow through on other pipeline safety initiatives even though even though the Congress has been clear that we expect FIMSA to conduct robust reviews of pipeline maintenance and operation plans.
▶ 0:22:33When Congress reauthorized FIMSA's Office of Pipeline Safety in the Bipartisan Pipes Act, we required FIMSA to consider protection of the environment when reviewing proposed safety rules, including methane pollution leak detection. The former administration completed a final leak detection rule, but President Trump arbitrarily demanded that FIMSA withdraw it. That's not smart.
▶ 0:23:00Climate risk, cost, and harms are growing in severity, and FIMSA's work is only becoming more important. Climate fueled extreme weather events can cause pipeline leaks and explosions, especially in high-risisk states like Texas and Louisiana. We must ensure that all impacts are considered inciting design, repair, and maintenance of oil and gas infrastructure, including pipelines.
▶ 0:23:26Unfortunately, rather than follow the law mandated by Congress, the Trump administration's FIMSA is taking a lazfair approach to pipeline safety, and this is dangerous and costly. To add insult to injury, the Trump administration has gutted FIMSA over the past seven months. Enforcement actions by the agency are at record lows, just five cases in the first three months of this year, compared to 66 cases during the same time period in 2017.
▶ 0:23:55And get this, more than half of the AY's senior leadership has left. We're seeing this kind of sabotage over and over again from the Trump administration, and it's really putting Americans at risk. For example, my neighbors uh back home in Florida are less safe this hurricane season because of cuts at the National Weather Service. They've te uh ended uh vital satellite forecasting initiatives and have left offices under staff.
▶ 0:24:24At FK, the president has asked the existing chair who he appointed the first time around to resign early and then nominated a new chair who doesn't have any energy background. These actions jeopard jeopardize FK's independence and make our energy systems less safe. At the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, President Trump has fired a safety commissioner and pushed executives or orders that threaten NRC independence. And just last week, Trump fired nearly every member of the US nuclear waste technical review board.
▶ 0:24:55So, at every opportunity, the Trump is cutting corners with safety and undermining energy independent agency independence. And folks, this is not normal. Uh, and I urge my Republican colleagues on this committee to stand up to this reckless gutting of independent agency experts and and abdication of the laws that keep us safe. Americans want safe and affordable energy. Uh, but we know we're going to be grappling with the higher cost of the big ugly bill.
▶ 0:25:23I hope we can talk a little bit about that today. Uh, Mr. Chairman, Hope Springs eternal. Uh, nevertheless, this could be the start of a good bipartisan dialogue to reauthorize pipeline safety and address some of the issues in this committee. So, thank you very much and I yield
▶ 0:25:38Thank you. The gentle time has expired and the chair now recognizes the chair of the full committee. The gentleman from KY's second district for 5 minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:25:47Uh, thank you chairman lad and thank to our witnesses for being here today. We appreciate it. Pipelines are critical to the safe transportation and distribution of oil, natural gas, and other energy products along with hazardous liquid products. As demand for energy is projected to skyrocket over the next decade, we must ensure our nation's pipeline safety laws are ready to meet the moment.
▶ 0:26:08The Energy and Commerce Committee plans an important plays an important role in the reauthorizing of pipeline and hazardous material safety administration's FIMSA's pipeline safety program. Under the new leaders under the new leadership of Carolina and myself, I hope we can work in a bipartisan manner. As my friend from Florida said, we will work to do that in this effort. FIMS oversees the US energy pipeline network of over 3.3 million miles of onshore pipelines.
▶ 0:26:36To accomplish this task, FIMSA's partners with states to ensure the entire network is safely operated and maintained. According to a 2019 FIMSA report, pipelines delivered 180 million gallons of energy per safety incident while trucks delivered only 55 million gallons of safety incident and trains only uh trucks 55 states trains only 50. Over the next the last 20 years, serious pipeline incidents have been reduced by approximately 34%.
▶ 0:27:05To continue this downward trend, FIMSA must operate within its statutory authority and maintain its focus on public safety. Unfortunately, under the previous administration, FIMSA stray from this core responsibility, focusing more on environmental agendas than The current FIMSA has a busy docket, promagating and finalizing statutory mandated regulations, updating regulations that are decades old, and refocusing the agency on its essential mission.
▶ 0:27:32Today's hearing will provide an important foundation the committee as the committee examines the status of outstanding rulemakings from the pites act of 2020 ways to close penalty loopholes for pipeline vandalism opportunities to streamline processes and the role emerging technologies can play in mitigating risk and increasing efficiencies across the pipeline system. I believe a major consideration for the future of pipeline safety is ensuring adequate capacity is available.
▶ 0:28:01As operators work to replace aging infrastructure, we must have capacity available to take pipelines temporarily offline for upgrades and repairs while still meeting the needs of American consumers. Pipelines are essential to the energy security of our of our country. I look forward to working with Cheryl Lada and ranking members Palone and Caster to strengthen our nation's pipeline network. And thank you and I'll yield back. Thank you.
▶ 0:28:27The gentleman yields back and seeing if the ranking member of the full committee is here. Well, at this time, what we'll do, we'll informally pass on the ranker's opening statement and go right uh to our witnesses today.
▶ 0:28:54But this concludes the member opening statements and the chair reminds members that pursuant to the committee rules, all members opening statements will be made part of the record. We want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today and taking the time to testify before the subcommittee. Each witness will have the opportunity to give an opening statement followed by a round of questions from the members. Our witnesses for today are, pardon me, Mr.
▶ 0:29:15Andrew Black, the president and CEO at the Liquid Energy Pipeline Association, Miss Sarah Miller, president and CEO at GPA Midstream, Mr. Bill Karum, the executive director of Pipeline Safety Trust, and Mr. Jim Morardi, the executive vice president and general counsel with the Chesapeake Utilities Corporation. And again, as I mentioned, the chair uh appreciates all of our witnesses appearing before us today. And you'll each be given five minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:29:46And just uh quick update on our mics here that you have to pull them up close so we they can hear you. Uh press the button and hopefully you'll see a little light come on. Sometimes it's kind of difficult to see. Oh, and you know what? Before we uh we do since it be informally passed on the ranker we'll hear from the ranker first then go right to the witnesses. So the gentleman from New Jersey is recognized for five minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:30:16I'm sorry Mr. Chairman I came right up from the other hearing but I guess they're all happening too quickly. let me see what I have here. It's been uh 661 days since the last pipeline safety reauthorization expired. So, I'm glad we're here today because there's a lot to talk about. Pipeline safety risks are just as prevalent as ever.
▶ 0:30:41But since President Trump took office, enforcement action against pipeline operators by the Pipeline and Hazardous Material Safety Administration or FISMA have fallen off a cliff. In fact, it's been so long since we've had a hearing, I I haven't used the word FIM so much. It's not because pipelines have somehow magically gotten safer since January 20 20th, but instead it's because the Trump administration is once again prioritizing profits for their favorite industries over the safety of the American people.
▶ 0:31:11And that's why Trump's forcing out the public servants that help to keep our pipeline safe is so wrong. Nearly all of FIMSA's top staff have left the agency. And dozens of employees have either been forced out or been paid to leave. And the Trump administration is simply letting the agency bleed out talent that was vital to keeping Americans safe. And the Trump administration isn't just haphazardly enforcing law at FISMA. Sometimes it's not following the law at all.
▶ 0:31:38The last reauthorization signed by President Trump required that FIMSA issue a final rule improving leak detection and gas pipelines. FIMSA finalized that rule in January in the final days of the Biden administration. But the Trump administration clawed it back from the printer before it could even be published. It did the same thing with a proposed rule on the safety for carbon dioxide pipelines which was required by pipeline safety legislation over a decade ago.
▶ 0:32:05So in FIMSA has even ignored basic transparency requirements that have published monthly updates on its progress on finalizing rules and regulations required by law. All of this is clear that the Trump administration has no interest in following the law. And that's why it's so important that this committee work together on pipeline safety reauthorization, not just across the aisle here, but with our colleagues on the House Transportation Infrastructure Committee and the Senate Commerce Committee.
▶ 0:32:31We must ensure pipelines are safe and that the administration and pipeline operators are following the law. If Republicans want to pass a pipeline safety reauthorization package this Congress, I would urge them not to follow the process that committee Republicans used last Congress. Committee Republicans insisted on the legislative hearing and markup on a partisan bill that cut FIMSA's authorized funding levels by nearly 20% and had several poison pill provisions completely unrelated to safety.
▶ 0:32:58They also refused to engage with the transportation committee on compromised legislation and as a result never even moved a bill to the floor. In short, Republicans should not follow that same playbook as we look to reauthorize the pipeline safety program. It's important that we focus on safety. Committee Republicans should not try to gut bipartisan programs we established in our last bill. It's also critical that we give FIMS FIMSA the resources and tools we know it needs to keep us all safe.
▶ 0:33:25So, finally, because this is our first energy subcommittee hearing since Republicans passed a big ugly bill, I wanted to briefly talk about the harm that that bill will cause American families. We heard testimony from countless Republican witnesses throughout the first half of this year, begging Republicans not to cut vital tax incentives for clean energy or energy affordability programs from the Inflation Reduction Act. They also pleaded with Republicans to stay away from cutting the efforts by the loan program office to keep our energy competitive, especially looking at nuclear power.
▶ 0:33:56And Republicans ignored all these experts please. And now, as a result, power bills for American families will rise by up to $400 per year. Reliability will be undermined. The risk of blackouts will go up and the climate crisis will get worse. So Republicans dangerous energy agenda is basically pickpocketing working families to give handouts to the rich, including the big oil and gas corporations who are among the only ones that stand to benefit from it. Now, I just wanted to say, Mr. Chairman, this pipeline safety issue is very important to me.
▶ 0:34:26Uh we had an incident many years ago when I was in Congress where we had a major explosion in our district, certainly in New Jersey. We're all very concerned about pipeline safety and we, you know, and so I just think that, you know, ignoring all this and just cutting all the people and getting all the getting rid of all the people that work there is just a terrible thing. I I I don't understand why pipeline safety can't be bipartisan. It always was in the past.
▶ 0:34:54Maybe I'm oldfashioned and, you know, nothing's bipartisan anymore, but the bottom line is this really should be. I mean, people care about it and we should care about it as well. With that, I yield back, Mr.
▶ 0:35:05Thank you very much. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. And at this time, again, we'll go back to our witnesses, and as I mentioned, and just pull the mic up close, press that button, and you'll see at when you hit the 4m minute mark, you it'll go yellow with the lights up front, which means you have a minute to conclude your statement, and the red is at five minutes. So, with that, Mr. Black, you are recognized for five minutes for your opening statement.
▶ 0:35:29Thank you, chairman, ranking member. I'm Andy Black, president and CEO of the Liquid Energy Pipeline Association. We have over 50 member companies delivering over 20 billion barrels annually across the nearly 230,000 mile network of pipelines. America is blessed with abundant energy supplies. Expanding American energy production will send new supply to market and pressure prices downward.
▶ 0:35:52The Energy and Commerce Committee has an important role in ensuring our pipeline network is safe, allowing us to confidently expand our energy infrastructure. Liquid energy pipelines deliver transportation fuels like gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel that families, commuters, businesses, and travelers use to drive and fly where they need to go. Pipelines deliver feed stocks like crude oil, ethane, and butane to make everything from plastics to pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, paints, fabrics, and fuels.
▶ 0:36:20rural home and agricultural fuels. Pro fuels like propane delivered by pipeline before traveling locally by truck, heat rural homes and farms, dry crops after harvest, and keep livestock barns warm throughout the winter. As this committee considers the role of pipeline infrastructure and what changes to make to federal pipeline safety laws, it's important to remember that pipelines are the safest way to deliver energy.
▶ 0:36:46More than 99.999% of crude oil petroleum products delivered by pipeline reaches its destination safely. A report prepared for Congress to Congress by FIMSA found that pipelines were 13 times safer than both trains and trucks. Current pipeline incident statistics also show pipeline safety is improving further. According to publicly available FIMSA data, total liquid pipeline incidents are down 13% over the last 5 years.
▶ 0:37:14Incidents impacting people in the environment are also down 13% over the last five years. And when comparing incidents to volume delivered, the decrease is even more striking with liquid pipeline incidents per barrel delivered down 33% over those five years. These safety metrics are available in the pipeline performance report and pipeline excellence strategic plan. In this report, you can see how the liquid pipeline industry is addressing key challenges like corrosion, leak detection, and geohhazards.
▶ 0:37:43You can see how operators are improving pipeline safety by harnessing new technologies, artificial intelligence, safety management systems, and recommended practices. Declining pipeline incidents over the last 5 years supports a measured approach to reauthorizing pipeline safety laws without major changes or mandates.
▶ 0:38:01LEPA does believe there's a role for Congress to encourage FIMSA to leverage technology for pipeline safety, support American energy development through safe pipelines, and improve the effectiveness and efficiency of FIMSA programs. Congress can do more to modernize pipeline safety programs. Key parts of FIMSA's safety regulations are over 20 years old and do not reflect the latest advances in safety technology or know-how.
▶ 0:38:26High-tech analytic tools like an MRI or an ultrasound you find in the doctor's office are available for pipeline safety. Analytic methods like machine learning and artificial intelligence can help operators digest data to show when a pipeline might be leaking or when it might need maintenance. This administration is off to a good start providing long needed reforms to FINSA. FIMSA has announced changes that will improve transparency and issued several notices on important proposals.
▶ 0:38:53FIMSA announced regulatory actions to improve special permits, update incident reporting thresholds, and integrate remote sensing technologies for monitoring rights of way patrols. LEA believes Congress can make some of these reforms permanent and provide the agency additional personnel with STEM expertise and pipeline operations experience.
▶ 0:39:13Six of the specific pipeline safety reauthorizations provisions LEPA would welcome include reform FIMSA special permanent program permanently to impose decision deadlines and limit unrelated requirements. Strengthen penalties for pipeline safety violations that impair operational facilities or damage construction sites. Fulfill the 2020 congressional mandate of a safety program for idle pipelines.
▶ 0:39:40Reauthorize without extraneous conditions a FIMSA technology demonstration pilot program. Authorize a voluntary information sharing program to convene stakeholders to collaborate on safety initiatives similar to FAA's successful program. And authorize riskbased inspections of inservice breakout tanks to reduce unnecessary greenhouse and air pollutant emissions, worker safety threats, and hazardous waste. More recommendations are listed in my written testimony.
▶ 0:40:07Thank you again for the committee support of pipeline energy infrastructure and the opportunity to testify you before you today on the benefits of pipelines including their safety. Thank you.
▶ 0:40:17Well, thank you very much. And Mrs. Miller, you are now recognized for five minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:40:23Chairman Lada, ranking member Caster and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of GPA Midstream Association. My name is Sarah Miller and I serve as the president and CEO of GPA Midstream, an organization that has represented the US Midstream Energy sector since 1921. Safety of employees, contractors, and communities is the highest priority for DPA Midstream member companies.
▶ 0:40:49Our nearly 50 corporate members are responsible for the safe and efficient gathering, processing, transporting, and marketing of natural gas, natural gas liquids, crude oil, and refined products. Our members directly employ over 57,000 individuals and indirectly support more than 600,000 jobs across the US economy.
▶ 0:41:14In 2023, GPA Midstream members contributed over $26 billion in economic impact, operating more than 56,000 miles of pipeline and over 365 natural gas processing facilities.
▶ 0:41:29Our members are an invisible link between raw natural gas and crude oil produced at the wellhead and distribution of products to consumers for heating, electricity production, transportation, steel making, fertilizer production, plastics, high-tech devices, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals and much more.
▶ 0:41:51The US Energy Information Administration projects that US production and consumption of natural gas and petroleum which includes NGL's will remain strong through at least 2050. Similarly, Rice University's Baker Institute projects natural gas and crude will sustain a steady share of the global energy mix also through 2050.
▶ 0:42:13That is to say that it remains essential to continue our focus on pipeline safety for existing and new pipeline infrastructure to asssure we can meet energy demands in the US and around the GPA Midstream members support reauthorization of FEMs pipeline safety programs with the goal to ensure pipelines remain the safest method for transporting affordable, reliable, and sustainable energy while also facilitating innovation and efficiency.
▶ 0:42:44We seek legislative and regulatory predictability and certainty to enable prudent investment decisions for the benefit of communities and investors alike. Our members advocate many goals for the reauthorization of FEMA's pipeline safety program, including several reflected in this committee's bill from the last congressional Specifically, our members appreciate improved due process enforcement and in enforcement matters, reform of the
▶ 0:43:14special permit program, strengthening penalties for those who damage infrastructure, and the recognition of opportunity for innovation and alternative technologies. Today I offer three recommendations especially meaningful to our members. First, we urge elimination of duplicative oversight of inplant gas piping.
▶ 0:43:37Hazardous liquid implant gas piping, I'm sorry, hazardous liquid implant piping is exempt by law from FEMA's regulation, but the regulation of implant of gas implant piping is not. Implant piping is within the jurisdiction of other robust safety programs such as OSHA's process management standards. Aligning the treatment of gas and liquid implant piping would eliminate regulatory redundancy without compromising safety.
▶ 0:44:07We are grateful to FEMA for recognizing such redundancy and issuing a notice to proposed rulemaking to codify an exception for implant piping systems into the gas pipeline safety regulations. We also seek legislative certainty for the elimination of such Second, in recent years, there have been more rulemakings aimed at gathering pipelines. The physical and commercial operations of gathering pipelines can differ greatly from transmission pipelines.
▶ 0:44:38Therefore, we request the gas pipeline advisory committee facilitate greater input from gathering pipeline operators for more effective gathering pipeline safety regulations. Third, we encourage the use of more performance-based measures and less prescriptive regulations to achieve safety goals. Performance-based measures consider relevant operating conditions and assess risks to achieve meaningful safety priorities.
▶ 0:45:04Performance-based measures will also facilitate a longerterm reauthorization period for FEMs programs as they allow for evolving technological advancement and best practices proven by time and experience to achieve safety. In conclusion, GPA Midstream is committed to working with Congress and FEMA to ensure the continued safety and reliability of our nation's energy infrastructure. We appreciate your leadership on this important issue and stand ready to serve as a resource as you move forward with reauthorization.
▶ 0:45:34Thank you.
▶ 0:45:35Well, thank you very much for your opening statement, Mr. Kum. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:45:41Good morning, chair, ranking member, and members of the subcommittee. I'm Bill Keram, executive director of the Pipeline Safety Trust, which was created after the 1999 Olympic Pipeline tragedy in Bellingham, Washington that killed three boys. We serve as an independent national watchdog over the pipeline industry and its regulators. On average, a significant pipeline incident occurs every 32 hours in America, nearly one every day.
▶ 0:46:06Since this subcommittee's last pipeline safety hearing last year in January 2024, 18 people have been killed and 45 hospitalized from pipeline incidents. The past two years have been the deadliest in nearly 15 years with 30 deaths, including a 5-year-old in Missouri, a 15year-old in Utah, and an 82year-old pastor's wife in Mississippi. Our shared goal of zero incidents feels unreachable when we haven't yet been able to prevent these tragic deaths.
▶ 0:46:35Looking at pipeline safety metrics over the last 10 years or longer doesn't show that we're making progress. The number of significant incidents each year remains frustratingly flat. Other metrics such as incidents impacting people or the environment display a slight downward trend. So slight that statistitians would say it could easily be due to chance rather than actual improvement. And while we did make meaningful progress on fatalities in the previous decade, the last decade shows a slight upward trend. Though like other metrics, not statistically significant.
▶ 0:47:04Pipeline failures don't just kill and injure people and damage ecological areas. They cost billions and disrupt energy supplies. Over the last 10 years, pipeline incidents have been reported by operators to cost over $6 billion. Incidents on pipelines such as Colonial's refined products pipeline that supplies the East Coast with 45% of its liquid energy have put crit critical energy reliability at risk. But the same solutions that save lives and protect our environment also strengthen our economy and energy security.
▶ 0:47:35Making a meaningful difference on pipeline safety will require three elements. Improved regulations, effective enforcement, and widespread adoption of pipeline safety management systems or PSMS. In many cases, Congress has hamstrung FIMSA from developing effective regulations. Provisions in the pipeline safety statute like the extra burdensome cost benefit requirement and the non-lication clause make it extremely difficult for FIMSA to develop life-saving regulations.
▶ 0:48:04Despite these limitations, there are ways to make a meaningful difference on pipeline safety. For example, as recently recommended by the NTSB, natural gas alarms or methane detectors would undoubtedly save lives. Incidents in Japan have declined by 90% alongside the adoption of these alarms. Another idea is fire shut off valves. These simple devices automatically close when exposed to heat, preventing gas from fueling house fires. They're inexpensive, maintenance-free, and easily installed.
▶ 0:48:34We need modernized regulations for carbon dioxide and hydrogen blended pipelines. Congress has incentivized this infrastructure without addressing the regulatory and research gaps that put communities on the front lines of significant safety risks. This year marks 5 years since the Dembberry carbon dioxide pipeline failure in Satara, Mississippi that sent nearly 50 people to the hospital. That harrowing night laid bare many of the risks and regulatory shortfalls with these Increasing authorized resources to FIMSA is also necessary.
▶ 0:49:04Not only has the agency been chronically underfunded, but the additional miles of jurisdictional pipe and the potential buildout of carbon dioxide and hydrogen pipelines demands an increase in resources from Congress, both to the agency and just as significantly to the state programs. But even the best regulations are meaningless without robust enforcement. Recently, enforcement case initiations have declined drastically, down nearly 65% compared to this point in the first Trump administration.
▶ 0:49:33According to a recent FIMSA report to Congress on the adoption of PSMS or pipeline safety management systems among gas distribution operators, while most pipeline mileage is owned by operators committed to PSMS, only half of all operators have made this commitment. To improve safety, we need industrywide adoption, all systems, all operators, large and small.
▶ 0:49:55As you discuss how to move forward on authorizing FIMSA's pipeline safety program and make improvements to the law, I implore you to think of the empty seats at dinner tables across across the country because of pipeline failures. 18 dinner tables are missing someone just since last year's pipeline safety hearing alone. Please ensure FIMSA meets its responsibility to the American people. Thank you.
▶ 0:50:18Well, thank you very much for your opening statement and Mr. Morardi, you are recognized for five minutes for an opening statement. Thank you. Uh, good morning, Chairman Lada, Ranking Member Caster, and members of the subcommittee. I am Jim Morardi, executive vice president and general counsel of Chesapeake Utilities Corporation. I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear today.
▶ 0:50:41We are a diversified energy delivery company headquartered in Delaware with service offerings that include natural gas gathering, transmission, and distribution, as well as propane, mobile compressed natural gas services, and electricity generation and distribution.
▶ 0:51:00Our company has operated for more than 160 years and today owns and operates assets in nine states serving over 440,000 customers with over,200 dedicated employees. Natural gas infrastructure plays an intricral role in the national security and economic sovereignty of our country and the demand for this domestic resource will only increase in the coming years.
▶ 0:51:30As a key part of this nation's pipeline infrastructure, our subsidiaries distribute natural gas to more than 330,000 customers through over 9,000 miles of pipeline. We also operate over 700 miles of transmission pipelines, a liqufied natural gas storage facility, and a renewable gas transportation Across the country, varying local and state mandates have created a complex and
▶ 0:52:00patchwork regulatory landscape that complicates planning, increases cost, and ultimately affects consumer choice and pipeline safety. A unified federal approach modeled after laws already enacted in 27 states that protect a customer's right to choose natural gas as their primary energy source would provide clarity, prevent regulatory and ensure that safe, reliable, and
▶ 0:52:30affordable domestic energy remains accessible to all Americans. Natural gas utility distribution pipelines are the final critical link in the delivery chain. As we engage daily with American families, communities, and businesses, as well as state authorities who oversee pipeline safety today, we strive to make let life better for the communities in which we live and serve.
▶ 0:52:59Accordingly, pipeline safety is and must be our number one priority. For these reasons, we are focused on continually enhancing our culture of operational safety and risk mitigation.
▶ 0:53:14Every year, our company, like many others, invests in our pipeline systems, spending hundreds of millions of dollars to enhance safety, reliability, and For example, our distribution system has been modernized by eliminating cast iron and bare steel.
▶ 0:53:34Across our service areas, we are performing advanced leak detection and incorporating a variety of new and innovative technologies to consistently prevent safety incidents. Chesapeake Utilities and other natural gas distribution companies support the following principles in the upcoming pipeline safety reauthorization First, streamline processes to meet energy demands on schedule by ensuring policies
▶ 0:54:04reflect the growing need for natural gas and the critical role that pipeline infrastructure plays. Two, limit safety incidents, property damage, and environmental impacts caused by unintended excavation damages. Three, strengthen criminal penalties on those who sabotage or intentionally damage pipeline facilities. Four, identify emerging technologies that improve safety.
▶ 0:54:33Five, study safe operations for natural gas and hydrogen blending in distribution systems. and six, establish a five-year reauthorization period so that FIMSA and the industry have sufficient time to complete and assess improvements. Our industry has proved we can expand natural gas delivery while also improving safety.
▶ 0:54:57Doing so enables us to continue to meet the needs of our customers and the communities that we proudly serve by delivering safe, affordable, and reliable domestic energy so that no one is left behind. Thank
▶ 0:55:14Well, thank you very much for your opening statement and that will conclude our opening statements from our witnesses. And again, I want to thank you all for being with us today. And at this time I will recognize myself for five minutes to our questions to our witnesses. Miss Miller, do you believe that FINA's primary mission as a regulator should be safety?
▶ 0:55:35I do.
▶ 0:55:36And would you explain why pipelines have a net positive effect effect on the environment? Well, as you've heard from other witnesses and and first I should say thank you chairman for the question, but as you've heard from other witnesses as well, pipelines are the cleanest and safest way to move energy. The demand for affordable, reliable, and safe uh sustainable energy sources is growing and natural gas is abundant in the United States.
▶ 0:56:03So with appropriate regulatory policy, natural gas can uh and the pipelines that the midstream operators um design, install and operate can be the way that uh safe, affordable, reliable energy is delivered to the communities that need it. Um I would note that the US energy information administration has reported that natural gas uh results in fewer emissions for than using coal or petroleum products to deliver the same energy.
▶ 0:56:34Therefore, when you use natural gas uh through pipelines in place of coal or other petroleum products, you're actually enabling communities worldwide to have reliable, affordable energy sources to enable a higher quality standard of living safely. Um, and our members on top of all that, our members are uh prioritizing safety and they're looking for ways to ensure that their pipelines do not have leaks.
▶ 0:57:06Lost emitted gas, lost gas is actually lost profit, lost value for our members. So they are not only incentivized to ensure that natural gas pipelines are operated safely a but they also deliver an environmental benefit for because it's the right thing to do but also because they're financially incentivized to ensure that that product stays in the
▶ 0:57:28Well, thank you Mr. Morardi. 40% of electric generation in the United States comes from natural gas. Electricity demand in the United States is projected to increase more than 25% in the next five years in part because of the race for AI and the onshoring of manufacturing. That means we're going to need more natural gas which will require significant infrastructure buildout including the expansion of pipeline infrastructure. Could you elaborate on how pipeline constraints impact and ultimately jeopardize safety?
▶ 0:57:57Thank you, Mr. Chairman. uh states that allow prompt regulatory recovery of the costs for the replacement and relocation of pipelines will accelerate the upgrading of aging infrastructure. We have these regulatory mechanisms in Florida and in Maryland and Delaware. Also, excavation damage is the primary source of distribution pipeline incidents and hampers operations and efforts to upgrade aging infrastructure.
▶ 0:58:26States that have strong excavation damage prevention programs and enforcement typically experience lower rates of damage to distribution
▶ 0:58:34Well, thank you. Uh Mr. Black, the the Pipes Act of 2020 recognized the value of using new technologies to bolster both efficiency and safety. However, DOE's implementation of the program had many non-stutory requirements that ultimately deterred participation. Would you elaborate on what some of those non-stutory hurdles were and are?
▶ 0:58:58Thank you for your leadership on this issue in the 2020 pipes act and in last Congress's bill and we hope that we can continue to work on this issue. Uh the the technology demonstration pilot program gives us an opportunity to demonstrate how new technologies can improve pipeline safety. Uh, FIMZA went beyond the safeguards that Congress suggested and required technology app pilot program applicants to use a special permit process and to put those before a NEPA review.
▶ 0:59:25None of which had ever been done for similar types of applications like that. So, nobody used
▶ 0:59:31Just pardon for interrupting. Why why would they do that? They've never done it before.
▶ 0:59:35It confounded us. I don't know. But um you know there's another uh kind of a theme that went through. Why aren't we prosecuting these ca because every said we need higher penalties for you know attacks on pipelines. What's happening out there? If I maybe just I got 36 seconds left but are we not uh prosecuting or what's happening in these cases out there?
▶ 1:00:00Well, there are criminal penalties in federal pipeline safety law for damaging or destroying pipelines, but we have incidents that don't lead to immediate damage or discovery that uh fall under loopholes. So, we think you need to uh address issues like valve turning that can cause pressure buildups or torching pipelines or shooting high-powered rifles through pipelines, all of which have happened. We'd like to work with you to close those loopholes and deter attacks against pipelines.
▶ 1:00:25Well, thank you very much. And my time has expired and I now recognize the gentle lady from Florida, the ranking member of the subcommittee for five minutes for questions.
▶ 1:00:33Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kum, you highlight the um erosion of the commitment to pipeline safety in your throughout your testimony. Uh and that includes the professional workforce at FIMSA. Is that right? Uh yes, we have heard that of um retirements at FIMZA
▶ 1:00:53and that uh I understand uh that the community liaison department which engages members of the public has gone from 13 employees to just three people who are now responsible for engaging the entire country. Um, can you explain to us what the real world impacts of the reduction in in professional expert workforce at FIMSA means for the safety of the public?
▶ 1:01:21Sure. Thank you for the question. Um, unfortunately we don't know fully. Um, we haven't heard official word out of FIMSA as exactly the extent of the retirements and the reductions in force. Um, so we're going off of what's been reported in the media or what's available on their website, um, which hasn't been fully updated.
▶ 1:01:39Um but we have noticed that the community liaison department went from as you mentioned 13 um down to three and that includes the manager of the department and that's three people in charge of um you know public engagement with members of the public across the entire country um who live among and alongside the over three million miles of pipeline more miles of pipeline than paved roads um which I I hope is obvious is not nearly enough.
▶ 1:02:06We've also heard um you know most of the leadership staff is gone. Um that's a lot of years of experience um um that has been drained out. Um we've also heard a lot of um staff from the standards and rulemaking uh team is has retired as well.
▶ 1:02:24I'm also very concerned with the escalating costs and risk driven by the heating planet and and climate change. Uh in June, the National Transportation Safety Board issued a final report on the 1 million uh gallon pipeline oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico in 2023, which caused $30 million in damage. In the report, the NTSB specified that it was the result of land movement related to hurricane activity.
▶ 1:02:54And this is fresh in my mind because I saw significant damage to energy infrastructure uh following hurricanes Helen and Milton in in the Tampa Bay area. Um does FIMSA currently have any regulations or guidelines, Mr. Cameron, for pipeline safety related to uh extreme weather events, flooding and and more intense hurricanes?
▶ 1:03:18Yeah, thank you for that question. Um so uh we call all of those geohazards. these geologic threats to pipeline integrity. Um and and they can be a result of extreme weather events and in in addition to hurricanes, we've seen pipeline failures after um uh large rainfall um you know of historic levels and things like that. Um there is nothing specific in FIMSA regulations about geohazards.
▶ 1:03:44What can Congress do if we're going to update uh regulations to better incorporate climate resilience practices? uh mandate that FIMSA adopt geohhazard specific regulations. Um there's industry guidance out there. There's um best practices by operators and a lot to go on to start writing those regulations. Now
▶ 1:04:03there there are also a few elephants in the room right now when it comes to to pipeline safety and one of them is the hatchet that the administration is taking to uh just basic funding of pipeline safety and FIMSA. Get round this your testimony out.
▶ 1:04:20What what are what can we anticipate at FIMSA and of regard to the safety of the public if if these kind of the draconian cuts to work professional experts and then their overall budget uh is enacted into law.
▶ 1:04:37Well, FIMSA is already a underresourced understaffed agency before this and um it was it's really an all hands-on deck committed to safety. So, it's really hard to imagine cuts not impacting um their ability to be an effective safety regulator. Um these the the types of results that we would expect to see from these cuts and and lower of lowering of enforcement and and regulatory activity are I would imagine will be long term.
▶ 1:05:04I don't think you'll see an overnight um change, but if we were to see a change um unfortunately I think it's long term and we'll be seeing it. um
▶ 1:05:12in the statistics that you you highlighted early that say well uh maybe we really haven't seen a a significant improvement in in uh reduction in deaths and injuries. Is is that likely to continue if if we're not able to properly fund and support pipeline safety across America?
▶ 1:05:33I hope that's not the case. But um I I do believe that a strong effective regulator is what keeps pipelines uh is part of what keeps pipelines safe and um and um lacking that I I I worry about the results.
▶ 1:05:48Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 1:05:49Thank you very much. The general lady's time has expired and the chair now recognizes the chairman of the full committee for five minutes for
▶ 1:05:56Thanks Mr. Chair and sorry for popping up and down. We have another hearing going on downstairs. So uh um so Mr. Black, I'll first ask you this. How does FIMSA enforce how does FIMSA enforcement act as a deterrent to unsafe operations?
▶ 1:06:12We are glad that this FIMSA has said that its top enforcement priority is pipeline safety, not other topics. And our country needs uh confidence in our pipeline network and in our pipeline safety oversight. uh enforcement acts as a deterrent against unsafe operations and so pipeline operators are expecting that FIMS is enforcing pipeline safety rules for the betterment of safety. Okay?
▶ 1:06:37Because we need confidence because I've had in my area I know if you look at a map of pipelines, people would be just shocked how many pipelines we have. But whenever there's a new u movement forward, there's always a big public relations campaign against a pipeline about safety. So we need confidence in it so people will know. And then you'll tell people, you know, there are pipelines everywhere and they they don't realize that. But that's be kind of become a new thing to keep us from moving energy around is that people are pipelines and we absolutely want them to be safe and people have confidence that so things.
▶ 1:07:06So Miss Miller, when FIMSA rulemakings go beyond the appropriate or statutory mandated scope, how does that impact an operator's ability to prioritize safety?
▶ 1:07:15Thank you for the question, Chairman Guthrie. Operators will comply with FEMA's regulations. And so when FEMs's rules regulate matters other than to achieve safety priorities, that means that resources that alternatively could have been devoted to those safety priorities are spent in other ways. And this issue is not only relevant to the operators, but it's also relevant to FEMA resources.
▶ 1:07:39We appreciate that Congress uh mandates FEMs scope of responsibility and that the 2004 authorizing statute for for FEMA made clear that safety was to be its highest priority and we welcome to the extent that there's any ambiguity about that priority that Congress can reaffirm FEA's focus on safety.
▶ 1:07:59Thank you. Uh Mr. Morardi, what are the barriers to addressing uh the remaining distribution lines that need to be upgraded? Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Chairman Guthrie for the question. Uh in our view, pipeline infrastructure is the safest means for transporting energy and more must be built to meet the growing demand.
▶ 1:08:23Um, just one example is our Ohio subsidiary worked very closely with AE to build, it's called Aspire Energy Express to construct a new intrastate pipeline in central Ohio to support an on-site electric power generation at a new fuel facility center serving a data center. We continue to work on solutions to these problems.
▶ 1:08:47We work closely with our elected representatives and each of our regulatory agencies to address concerns. In our view, everybody is welcome to the table uh to raise any issues they have, but we what we're asking for is just prompt, fair, and balanced consideration and then issuance of regulations so that we all can comply with those.
▶ 1:09:10Okay. Thank you. So, Mr. Black. How can pipeline operators use AI and other technologies like smart pigs to improve safety throughout their operations?
▶ 1:09:20The smart pigs.
▶ 1:09:26Explain a smart pig.
▶ 1:09:27Might might there.
▶ 1:09:30There we go.
▶ 1:09:31Explain a smart pig as well. A smart pig is a pipeline inspection device that travels on the inside of a pipeline pushed by the liquid product collecting information collects terabytes of data about the inside of a pipeline. So AI could use could be used to process that information to help identify more uh issues before they become problems.
▶ 1:09:56Similarly, pipeline operations have pumps, valves, and sensors along the long linear pipeline, and that creates operations data that AI and machine learning might help us find uh a pinhole leak that those sensors otherwise can't develop. And so, support for R&D uh among the pipeline industry at places like the pipeline research council international is happening right now by pipelines to try and benefit from AI.
▶ 1:10:21The way PIP way Congress can help is to reauthorize the pipeline safety technology demonstration program that chairman LA asked me about that will help us test those technologies and show FIMSA how it should safely improve its regulations to benefit safety.
▶ 1:10:37Do you also agree that that uh that this AI or technology if you find leaks that are otherwise too small to be detected, how would that improve safety?
▶ 1:10:46Thank you. Yes. Uh I would echo what Mr. Black just um highlighted. uh our members are using AI today to be able to sort through large quantities of data to be able to identify trends and solve operational challenges.
▶ 1:11:01We believe that AI can inform risk assessment to help operators identify and repair I'm sorry identify and manage first pipeline anomalies before they become leaks and then also prioritize repairs uh in order to address those that uh pose the highest risk first. We would encourage
▶ 1:11:19my my time's expired. He's about to gle me down. So all thank you for your answer and I'll yield back.
▶ 1:11:24Thank you very much. The gentleman's yields back and the chair now recognizes the ranking member of the full committee. The gentleman from New Jersey. Five minutes for questions.
▶ 1:11:32Thank you chairman lad. As I mentioned in my opening statement, I am concerned about a number of actions the Trump administration has taken at FIMS in its first six months. And one of those was calling back a leak detection rule finalized in the last days of the Biden administration. And I want to be clear, the rule was finalized and done, but the Trump administration instructed the Federal Register not to publish the rule and has since clawed it back.
▶ 1:11:57So I just want to point out that some of to some of our newer members that this rule was required by a bipartisan law that President Trump himself signed. That law required that FIMSA put forward a final rule within a year of enactment and four years after the law was signed, President Trump prevented the rule from being finalized. So, Mr. Kum Kum, could you talk about the importance of the leak detection rule? Did it have buyin from industry and public stakeholders?
▶ 1:12:26Did the Trump administration's decision make us safer?
▶ 1:12:30Yeah, thank you for the question. Um uh that rule was uh negotiated, discussed um over two weeks of advisory committee meetings with multiple stakeholder groups um industry, public uh and government. Um there were a lot of unanimous votes. Not not all of the votes were unanimous, but but many of them were. And uh I I would say consensus was reached on the vast majority of the issues in leak detection and repair.
▶ 1:13:00Um and um that rule was due, as you said, a year after. That would have been in in December of 2021. So it is is years overdue now. Um so it was really disappointing to see it pulled back from being published.
▶ 1:13:14Um and what about my question about did that decision by the Trump administration make us safer?
▶ 1:13:21Uh no, no, we continue to have incidents from known leaks. Um um um there are regulations on um specifically what kind of equipment operators need to use. Um and um the the regulations around grading leaks as to how quickly they need to be repaired are vague and um it uh that rule would have established those standards and and I believe made pipelines safer.
▶ 1:13:49Well, thank you. Now I want to turn to a potential priority for a pipeline safety reauthorization bill. As you pointed out in your written testimony, FIMS's safety rules are subject to a duplicative costbenefit analysis over and beyond the one already required for all other federal rules. And this is isn't a hypothetical problem. GPA midstream, one of the witnesses represented here today, has used this at the DC circuit court to kill pipeline safety rules. And I and to me that's unacceptable. So, Mr.
▶ 1:14:19Kum, would you talk about how this duplicative requirement harms public safety and whether Congress should look at removing this requirement in a reauthorization bill?
▶ 1:14:29As far as I'm aware, FIMSA is the only safety agency with this statutory costbenefit requirement um that is duplicative over the executive order. Um um it's difficult to do costbenefit on low frequency high consequence failures like you see with u pipelines and it hamstrings FIMSA from making real progress on safety.
▶ 1:14:52Um as you mentioned multiple rules over the last several year years have been rolled back by the courts saying that FIMSA didn't fully justify the cost with benefits and um the benefits in many of these cases are human lives.
▶ 1:15:04Oh thank you. I just want to tell, you know, mention to my Republican colleagues because we keep they keep talking about a bipartisan bill, but if we're really going to have a bipartisan bill on this issue, it has to be solely and I stress solely uh about increasing safety.
▶ 1:15:20Um, you know, the committee Republicans pipeline safety bill failed last Congress because it was not drafted in, in my opinion, in a collaborative manner and included partisan provisions related to pipeline sighting as opposed to safety. So that's, you know, it's not going to be bipartisan if it deals with sighting and other issues other than safety. So I just hope we can see a more collaborative process this year, Mr. Chairman. And with that, I yield back the balance of my time. Well, thank you very much.
▶ 1:15:49The gentleman yields back the balance of his time and the chair now recognizes the vice chair of the subcommittee, the gentleman from Texas for five minutes for questions.
▶ 1:15:59Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Black, I'm going to come back to you. Um, I want to highlight a section of your written testimony addressing pipeline safety. Quote, "A 2018 report prepared by FIMSA analyzing 10 years of incident data found pipelines were 13 times safer than both trains and trucks with pipelines experiencing one incident for every 720 million gallons delivered and rail incidents occurring every 50 million gallons delivered.
▶ 1:16:28Pipelines are the safest way to move this product.
▶ 1:16:32Yeah. And then you also talked about an Obama administration analysis found rejecting a major pipeline and shipping the same crude oil by rail would increase the risk of oil release by over 800 times and barrels released by 2.6 times. Very very important information. The Keystone pipeline would have come into my district, the Gulf Coast of Texas, over by Bumont, Texas, Port Arthur to be exact.
▶ 1:16:57Um, we know that we can move product cleanly and nobody wants and I think in one of the other witnesses testimony there was 18 or 30 people killed in the last year I think if I recall that correctly and that's so sad. Nobody wants that. Nobody nobody is for that. I mean everybody wants to do everything they can to prevent that. I mean my gosh we had a recent, you know, weather event in Texas where over 300 people lost their lives. It's always sad.
▶ 1:17:26Um, so I I would say that we want, if you looked at the traffic records of last year, and this is, by the way, this is NHTSA's information. Last year in 2024, 39,000 people lost their lives in traffic. Everybody hates that. Nobody wants that. Everybody wants to be as safe as they can. And that goes with pipelines. Would you agree?
▶ 1:17:47Yes. Americans use liquid fuels every day. And if you cancel a pipeline, we're still going to use those fuels. They're going to move on to other modes that are less safe.
▶ 1:17:56Right. And let me go back to the Keystone pipeline. Keystone pipeline coming into my district would have carried 830,000 barrels of product a
▶ 1:18:04If you if you divided that up into 18 wheelers, it's over 5318 wheelers on the highway a day. What does that increase the chance of more and more people being killed on the highway? So, nobody wants that. Obama shut down the Keystone pipeline. Of course, President Trump got it back up and running and then Biden shut it down, too. So, I'm going to go back to your your report.
▶ 1:18:29Uh, you said pipeline incidents are down 13% over the last 5 years and they remain the safest method to move product and we are always striving to improve that record. How can Congress ensure that FIMSA is equipped to modernize its regulations in step with industry innovation without imposing restrictions that could hinder progress? How did we do that? Well, several steps. One is to permanently reform the special permit program. As you know, there's so many different pipeline operating conditions and types of pipes.
▶ 1:18:58Sometimes FINZA regulations are not one-sizefits-all for that pipe. Second is to reauthorize without uh bureaucratic uh problems the pipeline safety technology demonstration program that we were talking other and then to keep FIMSA focused on on pipeline safety and to fund uh have everybody working on R&D to get us down to zero incidents.
▶ 1:19:23It's safe to say, isn't it, in your opinion, that nobody who works in the pipeline industry or in the fossil fuel industry for that matter, wants to go home from their job and find out that one of their relatives was killed on the highway. Nobody wants that. It's the same with pipeline safety. Everybody who works that industry doesn't want anybody to be killed in that endeavor. Miss Miller, I'm going to come to you. My district along the Gulf Coast has three LG export facilities.
▶ 1:19:52a fourth across the board in Louisiana. So we understand the understanding is that the FIMSA has been working to update regulations regarding the monitoring of LG pipelines for corrosion aligning them more closely with riskbased industry standard driven standards. Some estimates suggest these updates could save facilities millions of dollars annually with growing investment in LG export capacity increasing global demand for US energy. How can common sense updates help safety regulations? Very turn your mic on.
▶ 1:20:22Thank you for the question. Yes, we do agree that performance-based or risk based measures can help facilitate smarter um safety regulation that actually achieves the the outcomes that are desired. Um so we agree with you that uh performance-based measures facilitate safety
▶ 1:20:38and you would agree that nobody wants none nobody they know, no Americans, nobody killed on the highways and nobody killed by pipelines. You'd agree with
▶ 1:20:46I totally agree with that. Safetyy's
▶ 1:20:47Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 1:20:50Thank you. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from New Jerseyy's 8th district for 5 minutes for
▶ 1:20:57Thank you, chairman, and thank you for calling this hearing today. But I want to provide context for what's happening in Congress this week, what's happening outside the committee's doors. The speaker has announced that we are going to have canceled votes this week. He is limiting the legislative action that can be taken on the floor. And I think most Americans would want to know why. Why would we limit the things that we can do to further uh the interest of our constituents? What would that issue be?
▶ 1:21:25And the issue that has broken the Republican party is their refusal to vote on the release of the Epstein files. Of all the things that we have to deal with as a country, the reason we can't do our work here is because Republicans refuse to deal with the Epstein files and the transparency that they promise the American people. The Republican party is so broken that they refuse to hold this administration accountable or let us do our jobs to vote on legislation. But we're sitting here pretending that it's business as usual in this hearing room this morning when we know that's not the case.
▶ 1:21:56Let me also remind folks back home that just last month, Republicans passed their highly partisan reconciliation package, which included provisions to bypass the Clean Water Act and erode states rights to protect our constituents from polluting pipelines and a giveaway to fossil fuel companies.
▶ 1:22:13So the same time that they're making it easier for fossil fuel companies to build pipelines in states and districts that don't want them, they're making it harder for Americans to access health care through Medicaid, through the ACA by adding additional red tape. So easier for fossil fuel companies, harder for average Americans who are potentially dealing with long-term disabilities. The absolute lack of accountability is astounding.
▶ 1:22:39Last year, the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee put together and approved a truly bipartisan bill that have that would have reauthorized FIMSA pipeline safety programs for the next four years, giving families in all of our communities peace of mind that our pipelines are safe. Unfortunately, last year, instead of coming to the table, energy and commerce Republicans offered a bill that authorized significantly less than what we approved on TNI to the tune of $80 million less per year.
▶ 1:23:05In fact, the Republican Energy and Commerce bill would have cut activities that keep our communities safe by 18% from the 2020 authorization levels. Mr. Kum, can you briefly touch on what a cut like this would mean for pipeline safety for all of our constituents?
▶ 1:23:21Yes, thank you for that. Um, uh, inflation since the last pipeline authorization, the pipes act of 2020, inflation has been over 20%. Um so an increase of anything less than 20% um in this reauthorization would be a cut in funding. On top of that there's new jurisdiction for FIMSA and gathering lines and the potential buildout of CO2 and hydrogen pipelines. All of which um would require more funding.
▶ 1:23:47Um so a cut below um the 2020 authorization um would would be quite drastic
▶ 1:23:53and would make it more difficult for hiring retaining the experts that we need to coordinate critical elements of our pipeline safety programs. Is that correct? That is correct.
▶ 1:24:02And with the ongoing layoffs and buyouts, we know that that's going to have an impact on pipeline safety programs. Is that correct?
▶ 1:24:08I I believe so. I'm looking forward to hearing more about what's what's happening there.
▶ 1:24:12Yeah. Because we we now have even less staff and an already understaffed agency that is responsible for keeping all of our families safe from the dangers of neglected pipelines. Republicans are proposing to cut an already underresourced agency all while they're actively passing legislation and pushing for more pipelines. So, less staff, less funding, and more work to do.
▶ 1:24:34It's highly concerning to me that the Trump administration is turning a blind eye to bad behavior by fossil fuel companies while they're actively hamstringing the agency responsible for holding these companies accountable and keeping us all safe. And Republicans in Congress are enabling it by cutting resources for FIMSA and adding to their workload. Would you say that the Republican approach to safety is making Americans less safe or more safe? Uh, I I would say cuts to FIMSA would make Americans less safe.
▶ 1:25:02Correct. And we know that the TNI has a bill that would actually make a bipartisan bill that would provide the resources needed. Uh, but again, this committee, the Republicans on this committee chose to go a different route and not act in a truly bipartisan way. Um, this is all problematic because Democrats on this committee want to deal with the challenges that we have in this country. We want to do it in a thoughtful bipartisan biccameal way. Okay, we were able to do that on TNI. So, it's not impossible. People think that we can't do these things in bipartisan way.
▶ 1:25:32We absolutely can. TNI has shown us the way. This committee needs to follow TNI's lead to get those things done for the American people to keep our constituents safe. Uh I hope that's the work that we can do in this Congress, but apparently we won't be able to do it because Republicans refuse to release the Epstein files. I yield
▶ 1:25:50The gentleman yields back. Balanc's time. And the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Ohio's 12th district for five minutes for questions.
▶ 1:26:01Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh thank you all for being here today. Uh my first question is from Miss Miller. Thank you for being here. Um in your testimony, you state that in plant piping regulation by FEMA is duplicative to safety programs under the jurisdiction of OSHA. Can you elaborate on the requirements implant pipes must comply with under OSHA's process safety management standards?
▶ 1:26:25Thank you for the question. Um I uh appreciate we do appreciate the this committee's consideration the opportunity to bring uh legislative certainty to eliminating the duplication. So, OSHA's pipeline safety management system does have requirements that include, for example, uh making sure that we have written operation um written operating procedures for covered processes for uh maintaining integrity for managing change.
▶ 1:26:51We would note that um that FEMA itself has acknowledged that the OSHA safety management imposed on gas and plant piping is of a a similar quality to what uh FEMA itself would be requiring and the duplication of that effort brings it's cumbersome cumbersome it brings uh uh not only duplicated demand for resources but there can be inconsistencies I would highlight for example one of the things is that we
▶ 1:27:22have inspectors from each of the agencies who are reviewing our operations. Um, and when they do so, they come with different uh experience, different uh subject matter expertise. So, the OSHA inspectors have familiarity with inspecting implants for example in refineries. The FIMSA inspectors have more experience um inspecting interstate pipe transmission lines, for example.
▶ 1:27:47And so that the opportunity to have um engage with a regulator who has more experience with implant piping um brings more consistency and efficient use of resources that can be applied to other safety matters.
▶ 1:28:00Thank you. Um can you discuss the challenges your members have in ensuring safe operations when two different federal regulators are overseeing the same piping?
▶ 1:28:10Thank you. So I I would repeat then that it is the the complication of having to two potentially inconsistent uh sets of requirements standing up two uh programs to be able to achieve similar safety desired outcomes but through different means with different types of inspections different uh requirements uh which is just a drain on resources and can be inconsistent or contradictory.
▶ 1:28:34Would you say this conflict and regulatory overlap like in the case of implant pipes make it more confusing and challenging to maintain safe operations for GPA midstream members?
▶ 1:28:46I would.
▶ 1:28:50You also wrote in your testimony that FIMSA is rightfully taking action with the recent notice of proposed Tough position here. I can't see it. proposed homemaking to alleviate this regulatory uncertainty regarding implant gas piping.
▶ 1:29:06Would you agree that while the agency's proposal is welcome and necessary, Congress can and can and should still act to remedy this issue with a statutory fix to provide certainty for industry now and into the
▶ 1:29:21Absolutely. Yes, the notice of proposed rule making from sums is a great start, but we would appreciate Congress making that permanent. our members appreciate legislative um predictability and certainty so they can plan for long-term
▶ 1:29:35Thank you, Miss Miller. U Mr. Black, and I want to be I have a minute 23. Um follow up with you. Last Congress, this committee passed a strong pipeline safety reauthorization that strengthened penalties on individuals that damage, destroy, or impair the operation of pipeline facilities. I've heard from a number of pipeline workers and operators in my district who have strong concerns about worker safety due to increase and attacks and vandalism on pipelines over the last several years. Mr.
▶ 1:30:04Black, can you discuss why it's so important for Congress to choose loopholes and strengthen penalties on individuals that attack pipelines? And follow up, would doing so help protect the safety and security of your members, employees, and pipeline workers? actions that tamper with the pipeline risk hurting uh the people that live nearby, the perpetrators themselves and the environment.
▶ 1:30:27We've seen people cutting through chains to turn valves, shooting pipeline components before they are installed and shooting a high, you know, using blow torch on pipelines. Uh there's Congress said no criminal penalties in the pipeline safety law for damaging or destroying, but there's a loophole. If you tamper with a pipeline but don't immediately damage or destroy it, uh it's not covered by the federal pipeline safety laws.
▶ 1:30:52If you cover that, if you take that action to close that loophole, you will protect the environment and the workforce around those and we would encourage you to do that in your reauthorization.
▶ 1:31:03Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 1:31:05Thank you. The gentleman yields back and the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Virginia's fourth district for five minutes for questions. Thank you, uh, Chairman Lada and Ranking Member Caster for holding this, um, very important hearing. Um, in recent years, we've seen several pipeline incidents in Virginia that underscore the importance of the pipeline safety program.
▶ 1:31:28Communities across the Commonwealth have long raised concerns about the Mountain Valley pipeline, from construction activities contaminating drinking water to the risk of corroded pipes failing. These fears were sustained when in 2024 a section of the pipeline failed during hydro testing, a process that uses pressurized water to check pipe integrity.
▶ 1:31:50And in the summer of 2023, a TC Energy natural path natural gas pipeline in Shannondoa Valley exploded, likely due to cracking in the pipe. In each of these cases, FIMSA has had critical responsibilities conducting testing during construction, investigating pipeline failures, and imposing corrective action.
▶ 1:32:12As this committee takes on reauthorization of the pipeline safety program, we must ensure that FEZA has the personnel and resources it needs to carry out its vital responsibilities and keep our communities safe. So, I'm glad that ranking member uh Caster uh asked questions on that point. Um, the Mountain Valley pipeline cuts through the Jefferson National Forest and crosses hundreds of waterways and wetlands.
▶ 1:32:37And since the start of the project, there have been around 1,500 reported pollution incidents impacting rivers, streams, and drinking water supply. During construction and testing of the Mountain Valley pipeline, we heard that farmers and loan land owners were seeking more communication and engagement from FEMA around the risks to their land and water resources, which I think is just as important a safety concern um that we should all be worried about. So, Mr.
▶ 1:33:06Kum, I appreciate the pipeline safety trust's work to make pipeline safety information more readily available and accessible to the public. Uh and in addition to addressing the reckless workforce cuts that we have seen, how would you recommend that FIMSA improve its efforts to prevent pollution incidents and better engage community
▶ 1:33:29Uh thank you for the question. Um u I I I think it comes back to uh strong regulations and effective enforcement and pipeline safety management systems um in order to to limit these incidents. Um, and really all three need to work together. Um, um, there's there's lots of room for improvement on on all three. Um, and uh, I hope the committee is um, looking to take that on.
▶ 1:33:57Uh, as far as community engagement, um, you know, I the pipeline safety trust has really believed that an office of public engagement at FIMZA would be um, a big improvement. Um, uh, public engagement hasn't been a strength of the agency historically. Um, but they they have made improvements in um in in recent years. Um uh but I hate to see how going from 13 employees down to three is going to um backpedal that progress that they've made.
▶ 1:34:26I agree with that. Um, community members and environmental groups have long raised concerns about potential corrosion issues in the Mountain Valley pipeline in particular, uh, which has been laying in fields exposed to the elements for years before all permanent approvals were forced through in the 2023 debt sealing bill. Corrosion is also a growing issue for pipelines in coastal areas where rising sea levels and saltwater intrusion exacerbated by climate change are speeding up pipe degradation. So, Mr.
▶ 1:34:56Karum, as we look at reauthorizing this pipeline safety program, what additional authorities or resources uh does FIMSA need to better address corrosion control to ensure pipeline safety?
▶ 1:35:09So, there's there's two main um defenses against corrosion. Um one is coding. That's really the first line of defense. And when coding fails, the second line of defense is cathotic protection. Um, FIMSA has made some improvements to the cathotic protection on u natural gas transmission pipelines recently and we look forward to seeing um how those um are impacted uh how those impact failures and and effects of corrosion.
▶ 1:35:36Um but there aren't specific regulations on the condition of coding. Um um they're they're pretty vague and they leave a lot up to the operator's judgment. um the consent order we saw with Mountain Valley Pipeline put some um prescriptions on what coding tests coding needs to pass and things like that and um those would make a great addition to the regulations for all
▶ 1:36:01Thank you. And I don't have time for you to answer my last question but for for the record because we also need to worry about cyber security um and I would be curious to Mr. Karum to know if you think that uh FEMsa and DHS uh CISA in particular are still well equipped to monitor and combat growing cyber threats to pipelines. And if you could submit that for the record, I'd appreciate it.
▶ 1:36:25Thank you.
▶ 1:36:26Thank you. The gentle's time has expired and the chair now recognizes the g gentleman from Alabama's sixth district for five minutes for questions.
▶ 1:36:34Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And um I'll allow you to answer that question from Miss Mlen. That's in line with some of my questions.
▶ 1:36:44Um, well, I will say um that cyber security is not really in the wheelhouse of pipeline safety for our organization. It's more of a reliability issue. So, we don't really dig into the into the uh weeds on it. Um the the way we've approached it is the integrity management program for high consequence areas uh requires an operator to identify all potential threats against the pipeline, create a plan to mitigate against those threats and implement that plan and cyber security threats um should be considered one of those threats.
▶ 1:37:14Um and FIMSA could adopt some specific standards within integrity management. Um to the rest of your question as far as agency coordination is is beyond my expertise.
▶ 1:37:24Mr. Well, I I'd like uh for you to take a shot at that question as well, but back in 2021, we had a ransomware attack on on the Colonial Pipeline, which was in my district.
▶ 1:37:37And uh there there have been multiple attacks at various healthc care facilities around the country and and as more pipeline networks enter uh become part of that equation the threat of another attack is very much a real possibility whether it's fuel line like the Colonial pipeline or or other Can you address what where you think we are in terms of protecting our pipelines from cyber attacks and and and what we need to do to protect
▶ 1:38:07them?
▶ 1:38:08Glad to address both of you. Cyber security is very important to pipelines. Like any Fortune 500 company, pipeline operators need to maintain safeguards to protect their commercial systems and their operational systems. We'll do that in concert with the uh transportation security administration working with them on cyber directives. I believe you asked about CISA reauthorization. LEPA supports reauthorization and reauthorization of SISA. That will give pipeline operators the opportunity a safe place to work with governments to talk about threats.
▶ 1:38:38Uh it's quite important that FIMSA coordinate with those with cyber security expertise to make sure that anything that FIMSA does is in concert with what they know about how to do cyber security for pipelines which quickly evolving technologies and threats very important.
▶ 1:38:54So are you hearing much on that u from
▶ 1:38:59Um every day we know there are attempts to breach of breaches. Uh I participate in classified briefings from government. We must always have our guard on pipeline safety. Thankfully, there are recommended practices. There are uh interactions with government and experts to try and improve that. We can never be uh stop our vigilance.
▶ 1:39:19Do you feel like FIMSA is is weighing in on this properly? They're doing their part or is there's do we need to be doing more?
▶ 1:39:28FIMSA is not key on cyber security and I think that's okay. Real work with SIZA and with TSA. We need FIMSA to make sure they're talking with them. Many of these briefings, FIMSA is a part of those. That coordination should be done right to make sure there's not conflicts and overlapping and pipeline operators being told to do two different things. We need to make sure we're doing that right.
▶ 1:39:48Do we know if these are just in the ransomware attack situation with Colonial Pipeline? That was just people trying to extort money. But do we have nation state uh uh involved in this or or or people who are being given safe harbors? We know they are and China and Russia and other places to to launch these attacks. Is there any
▶ 1:40:11public setting generally? Yes. And I I know there's people I can encourage you to talk to in government that can help you more. But we must be vigilant and must be working on this well every
▶ 1:40:20Yeah. My concern about this transcends the pipelines. I mean, it's the critical infrastructure across the country that could be subject to a cyber attack, whether it's a ransomware attack or or, you know, from a state sponsored terrorist group. I mean, it could be could be anything.
▶ 1:40:38And I think that our u our grid in its totality, not just the power grid, but the entire totality of the grid, whether it's pipelines or power, is we we've got to make this a very serious issue, a top priority.
▶ 1:40:55We Americans use all these forms of energy every day and we can't afford to have something down from a cyber incident. You're absolutely right. Thank you for paying attention to that.
▶ 1:41:03Well, I appreciate your response, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time and the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Colorado's first district for five minutes for questions.
▶ 1:41:16Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Um, and thanks to all the witnesses, Mr. Black, I'm peering around here to you. Um, you just said we should always have the eye on pipeline safety and, um, you were talking about cyber, but I'm assuming you mean in in every respect, pipeline safety is really critical for this country. Is that correct? I'm making sure you're looking at me, Congresswoman. Yes, of course. Pipeline safety is our goal.
▶ 1:41:43And Miss Miller, I assume you would agree with that, too. Mr. Carum,
▶ 1:41:47I would agree as well,
▶ 1:41:48Mr. Kum.
▶ 1:41:49Yes, I agree.
▶ 1:41:50And Mr. Morardi?
▶ 1:41:51Yes, I do. Yeah, it's sort of a fundamental as as we are transporting more material through pipelines and many of them aging because of the administration's emphasis on oil and gas development. Uh we need to make sure that our pipelines are safe. We need to figure out a way preferably in a bipartisan way to do that statutoily and that's what we're talking about here today.
▶ 1:42:15Um but but um I was recently reading an article um in the Wall Street Journal and it talked about how the number of violation reviews has dropped by 95% in the first four months of this President Trump's second term compared to the same period under President Biden and at number n and a 93% drop compared to uh Donald Trump's first term and and at the same time the president has said
▶ 1:42:45that he doesn't want enforcement in a lot of these areas. And so I'm and so and and also of course then there's Doge uh uh unceremoniously just having these layoffs across government which we don't really know how how many of those people were laid off I don't think at FIMSA but given the dramatic drop of open reviews of safety violations um I'm not sure that that that means that there aren't violations.
▶ 1:43:16It just I think means that there aren't reviews. So Mr. Kum, I want to ask you, isn't it true that sa significant pipeline incidents have not decreased over the past 20 years?
▶ 1:43:28Uh, that is true.
▶ 1:43:30Um, so, so let's talk about the Keystone pipeline leak in Kansas, which was just three years ago, the largest offshore oil spill in almost a decade and the third major spill in five years. That was quite serious. Is that right?
▶ 1:43:44Yes, that that was a a lot of oil.
▶ 1:43:46A a lot of oil. And then last year a pipeline in Louisiana leaked for almost two two hours because there were no pipeline operators on site and the monitoring equipment malfunction. So So that meant many residents weren't even notified of the leak. That was also pretty serious, wasn't it?
▶ 1:44:06Uh yes.
▶ 1:44:08And and um are there other examples of leaks that we're seeing that are that are just happening right now? Uh yes. Uh you can look at the NTSB open investigation docket and see lots of examples of what the NTSB is investigating. Um also they're recently closed. Um there was a million gallon um spill off the coast of Louisiana that they just completed their investigation of and um unfortunately there's many many stories. So reducing the number.
▶ 1:44:38So so the fact there's fewer uh safety violations that doesn't mean necessarily there's that many 95% fewer leagues.
▶ 1:44:47Um so so before the Trump administration took over, FIMSA was already deemed to be understaffed and underfunded. Is that
▶ 1:44:57Uh yes. And then since President Trump took office, more than half of the senior executive roles at FIMSA are empty due to a hiring freeze and buyout offers from Doge. Is that right?
▶ 1:45:10As as far as I know, it is.
▶ 1:45:11Okay. And and now the Trump administration's recent budget request would keep FIMSA's funding completely flat and is $16 million less than the Biden administration's last proposed budget. Is that your understanding? Uh I have not looked at the president's
▶ 1:45:29Okay. Now, so so if we if we have flat or reduced staffing, uh what risk is that going to pose to public safety, do you think?
▶ 1:45:39Well, I I believe that FIMSA was already an underresourced, understaffed agency given the huge charge that they have on pipeline safety and the the 3 million miles of pipeline. um we wanted to see significant increases to that funding and um um seeing flat or reduced funding uh I I can't imagine how that won't
▶ 1:46:00will that help with inspection safety
▶ 1:46:03Um I we would like to see that u an increase in funding.
▶ 1:46:07Would the decreased funding help with increasing safety inspections?
▶ 1:46:12No. My understanding is the the reductions in force, the inspectors were protected from those reductions in force. Uh and they were not uh allowed to participate in that program. Um but we haven't seen um um any numbers on that. Um but I will say that beyond just inspectors, the entire agency is dedicated to safety and they support inspectors. Um they in sport support regulations and enforcement and um um so any reduction
▶ 1:46:39the gentle lady's time is expired.
▶ 1:46:41Thank you. Thank you very much. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas's 11th district. Five minutes for
▶ 1:46:48Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh I do have some questions uh that I'll get to, but does anybody have any thoughts on this last discussion we just heard that safety incidents are out of control or want to push back on anything?
▶ 1:47:01Mr. I I'll cover enforcement. I divide this year into two chapters. before FIMSA introduced Office of Chief Counsel memos adopting mandates from Congress in the 2020 act. Since then, I understand enforcement numbers are more similar. Uh before then, even when numbers were lower, uh the the quality was high in terms of responding to the major incidents on two lines. They issued corrective action orders and the industry supports FIMSA being an effective regulator.
▶ 1:47:30Yeah. Okay. Um
▶ 1:47:33I would just echo that our members do encourage that we have a strong and well-informed well-resourced uh regulator for the but not only the safety but also make sure that we have predictable uh expectations for
▶ 1:47:45Yeah. But reasonable
▶ 1:47:48being the key word.
▶ 1:47:49Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Um, and Miss Miller, I'll stick with you. Uh, and I'll start with the gas gathering uh rule. And as you're aware, this significantly expanded FIMSA's jurisdiction, bringing more than 400,000 additional miles of gathering lines under federal oversight. Um, and and they're located in districts like mine uh in the Peran Basin um where there's a heavy presence of production there. Uh, and very important and the scope of implementation of this rule uh could have major implications for how the gathering systems are built and operated uh going forward.
▶ 1:48:19So, we want to get this right. We want to be reasonable uh and safety is important. Uh there it's not it's it is a major concern. Um and there are other concerns as well. But from your perspective, what implementation challenges are operators currently facing on the ground and how can FIMSA better distinguish between high-risisk and then lower risk areas? Again, reasonable uh in in the way governance, which is not always the way it's done, but
▶ 1:48:42no, I appreciate that question uh very much. Yes, we do um very much value the opportunity to have risk based um assessment of safety concerns there. Just because for example a pipeline may have uh two different pipelines may have similar diameter or similar pressure. There are other circumstance to consider in order to make sure that we're assessing uh what the risk is appropriately including for example proximity to populations uh length of pipeline.
▶ 1:49:11One of the things I also wanted to make sure that um this subcommittee is familiar with is the difference between uh the uh the differences that exist between gathering pipelines and ter transmission pipelines not only physically but commercially.
▶ 1:49:26So, it's important to remember that the uh interstate pipelines are subject to um regulated uh rates uh with uh uniform tariffs versus gathering pipelines are subject to market-based negotiated compensation and negotiated commercial terms. So, very different application.
▶ 1:49:46Uh I'm sorry that more of my colleagues aren't here to to hear that. uh and we always take trips down there and we do point out the difference uh in the Peran basin of gathering systems versus the larger pipelines interstate type. Um and just real quickly um and I want to get to Mr. Moriety, but um having frequent GPAC meetings and ensuring participation from stakeholders, what's the importance of that and how does that help uh FIMSA
▶ 1:50:12We really appreciate the GPAC process. We think it helps bring more informed regulation which therefore is more likely to be um implementable and we want to encourage that that GPAC process also include more insights from gathering operators when it's regulating as it is more as FEMs is more um often regulating gathering now
▶ 1:50:31thank you um just uh I had Mr. Maria, I had some things I was going to say, but um let me just get right to the question. In your view, is there any realistic path to a reliable grid without natural gas playing a role as the backbone? The backbone?
▶ 1:50:47Thank you, Congressman. No, there is
▶ 1:50:49Um and would you agree that if we're going to meet the rising demand while also keeping uh the lights on that we need to get serious about modernizing and expanding our natural gas infrastructure and give us your thoughts on that?
▶ 1:50:59Yes, I would agree with that. Um natural gas pipelines are the safest way to move the energy that this nation needs and there's ever more demand for energy across our service territories which is in United States and to meet those demands we need to construct and safely operate pipelines as well as LNG storage
▶ 1:51:21Where did the negativity come from in this country towards pipelines?
▶ 1:51:24Like how did we get here? Well, I don't know. At at Chesapeake Utilities, and that's what I can speak of, we take very seriously our obligations to the communities we serve, and those communities are where we live and where we work.
▶ 1:51:38So, if a issue is raised with us, we immediately study it and address it. Uh, so I'm not quite sure what's happening
▶ 1:51:45Yeah. Science and math, they're the safest form of uh transportation and transmission, and they keep the lights on. I yield back.
▶ 1:51:53Thank you. The gentleman's time has expired and yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Massachusetts 4th district. Five minutes for questions.
▶ 1:52:04Thank you, chairman. Appreciate the witnesses being here today. Um, I do want to start off by echoing the comments from my colleague from New Jersey, Mr. Mendez. Uh, like him, I sat on the transportation and infrastructure committee last Congress. The difference in process on pipeline safety reauthorization between what I saw there and what's been described about this committee's process last year could not be more different. That on TNI was a bipartisan bill. Not everyone got everything they wanted, but everyone got something and we were able to move the ball on safety.
▶ 1:52:34And it just seems like that's the opposite of what happened here last year. I really hope this time is different. Uh because there is a lot of areas where we can move the ball forward on in a bipartisan way. Um Mr. Karum, did did the PIP did the Pipeline Safety Trust think that there were serious issues with the partisan bill that ENC Republicans put forward last Um there were u as as mentioned earlier there were u several pos provisions in the um in the bill that had nothing to do with pipeline safety um like permitting
▶ 1:53:04reform um um gas stove protections and and um CCS well permitting um that really don't have anything to do with pipeline safety.
▶ 1:53:15Mr. Black, you had said earlier that your constituency wants industry wants regulation. Is that right?
▶ 1:53:24Yes, sir.
▶ 1:53:25Do you think that when items that are unrelated to the core issue of pipeline safety and that have a strongly polarized and partisan bent to them are added to pipeline safety bills? Does that make the overall product more or less predictable?
▶ 1:53:39Well, we support Congress reauthorizing the pipeline safety laws. We supported the TNI bill and the energy and commerce bill. In the end, we want good policies enacted. Up to you all to how to do it,
▶ 1:53:49right? But if the part policies enacted are done on a partisan basis, does that inspire more or less confidence in industry that they can count on those regulations over generational time span because you're making long-term capital investments, right? So having having the the goalpost move on you not helpful.
▶ 1:54:08And man, I understand your question. We wanted Congress to act on reauthorization last time. We had priorities. We haven't achieved them. We'd like you to do it now. Whatever that takes.
▶ 1:54:19And Mr. Karum, I assume you didn't think it was perfect, but did the Pipeline Safety Trust think that the bipartisan TNI bill was closer to the mark than the partisan ENC bill?
▶ 1:54:29Yes, there were some good provisions in there. Um, we didn't think it went far enough to make a real meaningful difference on pipeline safety, but there there were really good provisions that we supported and support. And did you want to weigh in on that, Mr. Black?
▶ 1:54:42We we supported both bills.
▶ 1:54:44You supported both bills, but they were very different bills. So, was there elements of TNI or ENC that you thought were particularly productive?
▶ 1:54:52I'm trying to remember. There were things that were in energy and commerce that weren't in TNI and we were hoping that that would get reconciled if there was one big bill going to the floor. We, you know, bipartisan action is necessary to make a law. How you start again is up to you all. Our goal is smart public policies that are improving safety.
▶ 1:55:11Bipartisan action is necessary to make a
▶ 1:55:15Um I want to be positive today, talk about some of the important things to include in a pipeline safety package rather than just the process that I didn't think was productive. One point that's come across in multiple testimonies is that some states could stand to improve their programs to prevent third party excavation damages. U Mr. Karen, could you talk a little bit about what changes states can make to those programs and how PIMSA and Congress could play a role? Sure. I think that's an area where um all four witnesses agree um on the improvements to be made.
▶ 1:55:44Uh the Common Ground alliance has a set of best practices for state programs um and some states implement all of those best practices and others don't. And having um those as the baseline for all states, I think would make a big improvement on damage prevention. Things like um exemptions to um 811. um certain states allow certain municipalities not to um have to call 811 for example and and not allowing that would be great.
▶ 1:56:10Does anybody want to weigh in on that?
▶ 1:56:13Uh all these industries are going to support improved damage prevention. There are provisions I believe that were in the TNI bill last time. Can't remember about energy and commerce to move forward damage prevention and we would support those.
▶ 1:56:24Yeah, the TNI bill had some good stuff in there. Uh I'll yield back.
▶ 1:56:30Thank you. The gentleman yield is back and the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Tennessee's first district for five minutes for questions.
▶ 1:56:37Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Um, can you see me for that big chair? Um, Miss Miller, as ranking member Palone uh stated, GPA successfully argued that some FIMSA regulations have not been cost-effective. But how important is uh coste effective regulation for operators you as you prioritize safety?
▶ 1:57:02We believe we believe cost benefit analysis that is part of the FEMA regulate regulation uh rulemaking process is very important. We want to make sure that we are able to prioritize the highest value uh safety priorities and uh also make sure that regulation is implementable that there's technology actually available uh in order to achieve those goals.
▶ 1:57:25The uh process now for the implementation of rules which provides for input from the GPAC process but also from the public ensures that there's a more informed regulation that's more likely to be executed. Was the leak detection and repair rule finalized by the previous administration workable for operators and did it align uh with the congressional intent of the POPs act of 2020?
▶ 1:57:50We do not believe that it did. Uh we would we do support uh leak detection and um repair technologies being implemented in accordance with Congress's mandate.
▶ 1:58:02Okay. All right. You know, there's an increasing threat to pipeline safety as we all know. um from bad actors that wish to cause harm to pipelines in surrounding communities. Uh in 2022, there was a movie entitled How to Blow Up a Pipeline, and it was portrayed by a group of teenagers trying to blow up an oil pipeline to protest climate change. Mr.
▶ 1:58:25Black, what measures uh have operators taken to prevent bad actors uh disrupting pipelines and jeopardizing public safety?
▶ 1:58:33It was so sad to see a movie that was glorifying attacks on pipelines. I remember at the time us encouraging federal actors to put out bulletins to be looking for copycat activities on that. Thankfully, I'm not aware of anything that happened because of that movie. Congress can help by closing loopholes. They make it clear that if you just turn in a valve or damaging a pipeline component, you think you're not hurting anything.
▶ 1:58:57You could you could be leading to a pressure buildup or a rupture later that hurts yourself, people, and the environment.
▶ 1:59:04Yeah, absolutely. Miss Miller, how can Congress ensure the pipeline permitting timelines are predictable and not subject to unnecessary delays and
▶ 1:59:15Well, we would appreciate uh Congress's attention to that. We do think that um the permitting for pipelines which are essential to be to deliver uh natural gas to the communities that need it um is very important and there is um an opportunity to make sure that that is a balanced process that reflects not only the need to have access to energy but also safety and environmental protections and we believe that's possible.
▶ 1:59:43We also believe that uh that's very important important priority for our operators across the industry.
▶ 1:59:49Okay. Uh Mr. Morarity, as the US expands hydrogen uh pipeline networks, what unique safety and regulatory challenges do these fuels represent and how should FIMSA's mandate evolve to address them?
▶ 2:00:05Thank you very much for the question. It's a very good question. Uh we have been blending hydrogen with natural gas at a facility that we have in Florida and uh we've blended up to 5%
▶ 2:00:17and it uh was not only uh inexpensive but also very good for the uh generation that was happening there. Uh so we're we're bullish on the role of hydrogen.
▶ 2:00:30Yeah. What we are still studying and I think the industry is studying is how much blending can occur without challenging the integrity of those
▶ 2:00:39our interstate pipeline infrastructure is the envy of the world. I mean, we're able to deliver energy and so many others, you know, to to the people here in the country as well as to the industry. So, we we see further study on that is helpful uh as you consider FIMSA's reauthorization.
▶ 2:00:56Okay. Thank you, sir. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 2:00:59Thank you. The gentle lady yields back and the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from North Dakota for five minutes for questions.
▶ 2:01:11Excellent. Thank you. I wasn't expecting to be up so soon. I'm usually the very last, so guess it pays to stick around. Um, well, thank you all for being here. I appreciate you lending your expertise to this very, very important subject. I've been a pipeline proponent for many years. I spent 12 years as a utility regulator and permitted a lot of pipelines myself and the state of North Dakota. Um so I want to talk a little bit about the state role first.
▶ 2:01:41Um recognize the I have recognized the challenges of FIMSA in terms of staffing for for years. One of the challenges is they don't operate a state inspection um training program as effectively as they could to help get more state inspectors out there. or it takes too long to certify these people.
▶ 2:01:59Um, so what um what do you think they could be doing to help and what are you guys focusing on in terms of encouraging FIMSA to use like remote training programs and really get the training uh system up to speed so that the state inspectors can hit the ground running sooner.
▶ 2:02:19Mr. Black, may you and Mr. Karum,
▶ 2:02:21great to have you on the committee given your role in North Dakota. Thank you and welcome. uh state inspectors uh with quality experience and knowledge on pipeline inspections is very important. I've been to FIMSO's training center in Oklahoma City and you're right, it's important to be able to expand the capacity of that training. It's in the industry's interest that anybody inspect inspecting a pipeline is quality, knows what they're doing, and is working in concert with others. We'd like to do that.
▶ 2:02:45We'd like to also see states reduce uh damage prevention exemptions so that we can uh protect pipeline safety and then to work in their inspections with FIMSA to make sure that they're not duplicative when FIMSA has approved a state to inspect interstate transmission. Okay.
▶ 2:03:03I would encourage you to encourage FIMSA to do online training for state inspectors at least for some of the programs. They don't have to be present.
▶ 2:03:11I'll make that call today. Thank you.
▶ 2:03:13Yes, Mr. Kim. Yeah, I'll echo uh Mr. Black's comment. I welcome your expertise and experience uh to the subcommittee and and I think the quality of your question um really shows the that expertise that you bring and uh so thank you for it. Uh it is a you've identified a real issue um uh with state programs.
▶ 2:03:34Um I think in addition to how long training takes um I think uh you know increasing FIMSA's ability to attract and retain talent. I know there's a lot of competition for um these inspectors once they're trained to be you know paid more by the industry. Um and so giving FIMSA more flexibil well giving the state programs more flexibility under the FIMSA program um in in their ability to attract and retain through the the funding and their agreements.
▶ 2:04:03I think would go a long way in keeping that talent on the state programs longer.
▶ 2:04:08Okay. Very good. Thank you. I'd also encourage you to make those comments to
▶ 2:04:13I will do so.
▶ 2:04:14The uh I'm curious about this demonstration program that was um kind of choked off by the last Mr. Black, I mean, everybody here has talked about the use of technology and that's something that we can should be able to agree on in a bipartisan manner. Let's use the technology for better purpose. What do we need to do to to reinvigorate this this pilot program uh so we can test some of this stuff and and get it in the field?
▶ 2:04:43First, Congresswoman reauthorized the program in this upcoming reauthorization. It lapsed. Nobody used it. It was because of FIMSA applied rules that you all didn't tell them to do. So, told them to do it without bureaucratic hurdles. I don't think they will apply the special permit process to it or NEPA to these decisions but show FIMSA the importance that you have in uh demonstrating new technologies and how they can improve pipeline safety.
▶ 2:05:08Okay, very good. And then my last question have to be quick. Um our our infrastructure is aging it but it's really really hard for companies to build new tech new pipelines. I mean so this one goes to you Mr. Kum. you've got kind of a bully pulpit to talk about these issues in terms of a public safety um position and talk about the value of pipelines in terms of being the safest method to transport a lot of these products.
▶ 2:05:38What are you doing to help educate the public about the need for replacing old aging pipelines that are more prone to leaks with the new stuff to and to help advocate for um permitting processes that are certain and and and the construction of new pipeline after that?
▶ 2:05:57Well, we don't necessarily see the uh you know permitting reform as part of our emission on pipeline safety, but we do advocate for um you know the pipe replacement program um that was um in the bipartisan infrastructure act and has been some draft legislation on this round of um of reauthorization and uh we continue to support that program to replace that aging leakprone problematic
▶ 2:06:24Okay. Uh, I'm over time. Sorry. Thank
▶ 2:06:28The gentle lady's time has expired and yields back. And the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas's 33rd district for five minutes for
▶ 2:06:36Uh, Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And uh, let me start by reaffirming I think what we all know to be true and that uh, pipeline safety uh, is not a luxury, but it's a necessity. Um, and we rely over literally 3 million miles of pipeline to move energy and materials that power this country. It's very critical for keeping our houses cool and keeping them warm uh and jobs. So, I mean, it's important for everything and that's why FIMS's mission is so important.
▶ 2:07:04Uh and that's why this committee's work to reauthorize FIMSA is long overdue. Uh I think that we've let the AY's authorities lapse even as pipeline miles expand and aging infrastructure strains and new fuels like hydrogen and CO2 are finally starting to uh enter the system. them. And as a Texan, uh, I know better than most how central pipelines are to American energy. They're efficient, they're economical, and they're essential, but they're also not infallible.
▶ 2:07:31Uh and we have to look for ways that we can raise the bar on safety. Uh with new energy demand surging, the country growing, uh things like hydrogen and CO2 infrastructure coming online, uh and extreme weather uh uh risk uh and extreme uh weather extremes increasing. Uh the stakes really couldn't be higher.
▶ 2:07:53uh we need FIMSA to ensure that we have the tools, the staff and the authority uh to really prioritize safety and reduce leaks and protect a lot of our communities as well as we experience this growth and this new demand for energy. And so I think that what we really need to be asking ourselves is how can we make real progress on pipeline safety without getting bogged down uh in partisanship, which is something that I've really stressed a lot on being on this subcommittee.
▶ 2:08:19uh uh and so at the end of the day, this hearing is not just about policy, but it's really whether or not families can feel safe in their homes uh and businesses and whether or not we're going to have the energy that we needed. And so I wanted to ask Mr. Kum uh your organization often works across stakeholder lines. And I wanted to ask like what are two or three practical bipartisan steps this committee could take in reauthorization that would increase pipeline safety and community trust but still be workable for the industry? Yeah, thank you so much for that question.
▶ 2:08:49Um, two things come to mind. Um, both of which I mentioned briefly. The first is inhome methane detectors or natural gas alarms. The NTSB has been recommending these devices for some time. Um, there's been some disagreement as to whether that's really under FIMSA or a state program's jurisdiction.
▶ 2:09:07Um but I firmly believe that it is part of a operator's public awareness um responsibilities and could be part of the public awareness um regulations and um you know this this subcommittee could make that happen. We saw in Japan when they uh adopted widespread use of natural gas alarms um we saw the incidents decrease by 90%.
▶ 2:09:29Um I I firmly believe that widespread adoption of natural gas alarms will make a meaningful difference quickly on um fatalities from from pipelines. And another would be um uh fire shut off valves or thermally activated shut off valves. Um these would uh help mitigate the damage from a fire in a building um that could be made worse by the presence of gas service. Um they're very simple, inexpensive devices. I believe they cause cost $75.
▶ 2:09:58They're required in Massachusetts um already and have been for some time. Um a a low melting point polymer keeps the valve open when exposed to heat. It automatically closes um and it would prevent gas from making that fire worse and and fueling it. They don't require any um ongoing maintenance and they're very easy to install on existing service lines.
▶ 2:10:19Yeah. Now I also wanted to ask you uh we know that communities are more likely to push back on CO2 and hydrogen projects if they don't understand the risk or benefits and we see we now see this happening across the Midwest with the CO2 pipelines. What tools like mapping uh early engagement or post incident transparency can Congress support to build trust in these nextg pipelines?
▶ 2:10:44I think the biggest piece of building trust for um this type of pipeline is improving the regulations. Um there are glaring regulatory gaps. Certain types of CO2 pipelines aren't covered by any minimum safety regulations. Um and uh the regulations that do apply, the pipelines that are covered by regulations, um those regulations are don't really address the unique physical properties and risks that CO2 pose.
▶ 2:11:11So I think the biggest the biggest thing that could be done for building trust in these pipelines is modernizing the
▶ 2:11:17Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And Mr. Chairman, as I get ready to close, I hope that too we can address this again to talk about how we can get the public more involved before something bad happens. Often times something it takes something really bad to happen before the public really gets engaged. We need to start looking at how we can get in front of a lot of these things uh and not just be responding to uh you know uh unfortunate situations. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 2:11:41Thank you very much. The gentleman's time has expired and yields it back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Georgia's 12th district. Five minutes for questions.
▶ 2:11:49Thank you, Chair Lada, and thank you for holding this important hearing to discuss policy on expanding our pipeline I want to thank the witnesses uh for being here to testify. Uh building up our pipeline capacity is critical to delivering affordable energy to our constituents across the country and and our allies. We've heard from the witnesses that pipelines are the safest way to deliver energy.
▶ 2:12:15As we are working on modernizing the role of pipeline and hazardous material safety administration of FMSA, it is critical we ensure it works to enhance our pipeline infrastructure. Mr. Marardi.
▶ 2:12:30Yes, sir.
▶ 2:12:31You uh work in the local distribution of natural gas. uh could you expand on how you get gas safely into communities and the need to build up pipeline capacity to deliver lowcost energy to consumers?
▶ 2:12:44Well, thank you very much for that question. I would like to answer it by an example. Somerset County in Maryland did not have access to natural gas. The county there was desperate to get new energy delivered because of the economic development that would would occur and the increase in employment. We work closely with the community as well as with the state and we now built a pipeline into Somerset County.
▶ 2:13:08So for the first time they have access to natural gas which has led to more building, more manufacturing and more
▶ 2:13:18That's a great example and uh thank you for that. Uh Mr. Black, Miss Miller, you both mentioned the need to reform the special permit program. Can you share how reforming this program will expand pipeline infrastructure projects?
▶ 2:13:33The special permit program has been nearly broken by the application of unnecessary conditions that are unrelated to the uh waiver being requested and they've taken too long. FIMSA should reform the special permit process and Congress should tell them that they should decision delay decision deadlines, excuse me, and no extraneous conditions. How will that help there?
▶ 2:13:58One-sizefits-all regulations can't possibly apply to all the different types of conditions, operations, pipe that's out there. If we reform the special permit process, get people using it, have regulations that are suited to that specific pipe, that contributes to unleashing energy because we can have the pipe that we need to go where we need it to go.
▶ 2:14:18Okay, Miss Miller,
▶ 2:14:21I would echo what Mr. Black said. We agree that not only is the special permit program offers that opportunity, but I would point out as well that performance-based measures and and FEM and FEMA pipeline safety programming can allow for the evolving technology in order for more fitfor-purpose uh
▶ 2:14:38Okay. As a followup, how can FEMA modernize a special permit process so operators can realize the intended benefits of the process? Mr. Miller, Miss Miller, I'm sorry.
▶ 2:14:50Thank you. Um, I I would actually uh I defer to to Mr. Black who did such a nice job of describing the special permit program and the opportunities for improving upon it, but we echo that there's an opportunity to allow for the fitforpurpose solutions that bring better safety outcomes. Okay.
▶ 2:15:05At its essence, Congressman, no unrelated conditions. Deal with what the pipeline operator is requesting. Don't take this opportunity to impose something else. Do that through the regulatory process. Second, have a decision deadline so that permits get ruled on and we get these changes made.
▶ 2:15:21Okay. All right. Uh, Miss Miller, it's my understanding that you have some LG members. I believe exporting LG to our allies is key to our national security. Can you share how updating pipeline safety programs would be beneficial to our LG experts exports?
▶ 2:15:38Having a greater supply available for export um not only facilitates the export of that to our allies, but that also has environmental benefits because natural gas um is a more um environmentally friendly uh energy source and energy demands of course are increasing around the world. Um and making that available across the the world, our our American natural gas around the world um provides benefits for us all.
▶ 2:16:05Yeah. And this is a great opportunity for us to u maybe reverse the trade deficit issues and other things that obviously the president's working on. Would that be correct?
▶ 2:16:15I agree.
▶ 2:16:16Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much uh uh for to you all for being here today. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 2:16:25Thank you. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Washington's 8th district for five minutes for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses. Uh, I want to just start just by expressing how important pipeline safety is uh all over, but particularly in my home state. It's been about 26 years since the Olympic pipeline explosion in Bellingham, which is less than an hour from my district.
▶ 2:16:54And this tragedy killed three young people, uh, injured eight more, and severely impacted the ecosystem and the nearby communities. and many of the safety protections and considerations currently in place stem from this tragedy. So, I just wanted to remind us all why we're here, why FIMSA is so important. Um, I'd love to just turn to hydrogen, a fuel that Washington state is heavily investing in. Um, Mr.
▶ 2:17:20Morardi, in your testimony, you discussed the role that your utility plays in the Mid-Atlantic hydrogen hub. I was wondering if you could discuss the economic opportunities that this hub will bring to your region.
▶ 2:17:34Thank you for that question. We there was a great deal of excitement when Mach 2 was announced which is our hydrogen hub in the Delaware, Pennsylvania, New uh our role as a company was going to be to use our safety town which is where we have built little houses and little facilities. And I say little, it just all the fac all the um appliances that you would use are in there.
▶ 2:18:03And we use that to train our employees, but also to train first responders. Our role at Mach 2 was going to be to blend hydrogen into those energy sources to see how they reacted and then to help train our folks and others to do that. So there was a great deal of excitement when it first started.
▶ 2:18:24Uh that is really cool that Machu has a safety town there to do practice and uh drills and I think it all makes all of us feel better. Um we we also uh were very excited about and we are very excited about being a hydrogen hub in Washington state. Um in particular in Washington where we have 70% of our power comes from hydropower. Um there it's clean hydrogen which is particularly exciting.
▶ 2:18:54It's a way to store that excess energy. And it's one of the reasons I'm so disappointed that this administration and House Republicans are undermining the efforts toward uh hydrogen, which is our import one of our important future uh fuels.
▶ 2:19:08Um when they deliberate deliberated about the one big ugly bill, they slashed tax credits for clean energy uh including weakening the 45V clean hydrogen tax credit which is crucial to get uh this nent hydrogen industry off the ground and uh both Machu and the Pacific Northwest hydrogen hub may be on the chopping block according to some leaked documents.
▶ 2:19:36Um, I will also note that one of the largest hydrogen hubs is in Texas and uh that these exist in red states and blue states and all over and we need to be thinking about the future for the purposes of this hearing and safety. I just wanted to discuss again the knowledge gaps that we still need to fill in in terms of how to integrate hydrogen fuel into the existing pipeline systems and infrastructure through blending and later hopefully um maybe even on its own.
▶ 2:20:04and these uh safety issues have not been fully discussed. Uh Mr. Karum, it's good to see you again. We talked about some of these unknowns last time you were here and why further studies are needed uh to evaluate what modifications are needed to existing infrastructure to be compatible with hydrogen. We didn't know a ton at the time. It's been about a year. We still haven't passed FIMSA uh reauthorization and with a hydrogen blending study to address these safety concerns.
▶ 2:20:31and I was wondering um if you could speak to the urgency of this, the consequences of not filling those knowledge gaps sooner rather than later.
▶ 2:20:40Yes, thank you for the question. Um at this point, operators do not need to report to anyone including FIMSA or their state regulator if they are blending hydrogen into their system as long as it's below 50%. So, we don't really know how urgent this is because we're not aware of how many operators are blending hydrogen into existing systems.
▶ 2:21:02Um, I will say that the knowledge gaps and research gaps and regulatory gaps that we dis discussed last time um are are largely still present. Um, hasn't been a lot of progress made as far as I know. Well, I hope the way we discover the problems isn't through a catastrophe at Safety Town uh and figuring out where there are gaps in our knowledge and pipelines. So, I want to thank you and I will yield back unless you want to use those six seconds. You looked eager to say something. No.
▶ 2:21:31Okay, I will yield back. Thank you.
▶ 2:21:34Thank you. The gentle lady yields back and the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Iowa's first district for five minutes for questions. Thank you so much chairman uh LA and ranking member caster for holding this important hearing on pipeline safety. American energy dominance requires modern pipeline infrastructure and effective regulations that truly consider the cost benefit of addition additional bureaucratic barriers. These pipelines heat our homes and power our farms.
▶ 2:22:01They deliver energy affordably and safely across the country making modern life possible. to think if we replaced every pipeline with a semi-tractor, trailer, truck, tanker, or rail car, how much more safety would be put at risk. We need clear federal standards, not 20-year-old rules that ignore modern technology and innovation. This isn't complicated. Focus on actual safety, streamline permitting.
▶ 2:22:31American energy security depends on building the infrastructure and that means smart targeted policies, not one-sizefits-all mandates that threaten reliability and investment. And to your point, Mr. Morardi, I have since I've been in Congress, which was January 3rd, 2021, have been talking with two of my counties in southeast Iowa along the Mississippi River who desperately want more pipeline natural gas delivered to them.
▶ 2:22:55and it is absolutely affecting economic growth and they've lost businesses relocating there because of this issue. Um and Mr. Black, your uh members use advanced technologies for leak detection voluntarily. Um why is flexibility important in allowing operators to deploy the right technology for their specific systems rather than having a prospective mandate from the federal Well, first technology, Congresswoman, there are lots of different types of pipelines.
▶ 2:23:26There are ones that have many laterals and many uh injection points and takeoffs, and there are ones that just go one direction. Uh it's important to have a leak detection program that reflects the characteristics of that system. If there are prescriptive regulations, first those might become quickly obsolescent by advancing technology. Second, they might not reflect the unique characteristics of that pipelines.
▶ 2:23:52Right now, FIMSA inspects pipeline operators, asks them about how they're approaching their pipeline system, and has that type of conversation. That's the way that it should be.
▶ 2:24:02So, it's sort of like the federal government telling a farmer how much input, how much pesticide, fungicide, fertilizer, when to harvest, when to plant, uh not knowing when the corn's dry, when the ground's ready, how much rain they're expecting, and if there's
▶ 2:24:16That sounds right.
▶ 2:24:17Okay. Thank you. Uh Mr. Morardi, uh Congress mandated a safety program for idle pipelines in 2020, but it hasn't been implemented. As an operator, what unique risk do idle pipelines pose, and why do we need federal standards?
▶ 2:24:30Thank you for that question. Idle pipelines um are are wasted capacity uh that could be repurposed for other uh we try and ensure that all the pipelines that we have are fully utilized and they're safe. I think when you idle a pipeline and it's not being used, you just raise the risk of safety with those pipelines.
▶ 2:24:55Uh again for Mr. Morardi, you describe sophisticated cyber security measures at Chesapeake. How can FIMSA support industry-ledd cyber security efforts without creating duplicate duplicative regulations with TSA and other agency
▶ 2:25:11Well, thank you very much. Um, cyber security is one of the top risks that face companies like ours. Uh, we have invested a great deal in a cyber team. Uh, we have one of the best in the country and we're very very proud of that. We have attacks daily from nation states and others.
▶ 2:25:29uh we have um partners at the FBI and other places that we deal with uh where we share I think if FIMSA were to step in, we'd want a holistic approach because time is of the essence when you're dealing with a cyber event.
▶ 2:25:45Uh thank you. And Miss Miller, CO2 has been used for enhanced oil recovery for decades, helping maximize domestic energy production. Can you pl explain how CO2 uh infrastructure supports traditional oil and gas operations and why it's important for American energy
▶ 2:26:03Thank you for that question. Actually, few of GPA Midstream members currently operate or planning to operate CO2 uh pipelines, but we recognize the importance of having the pipelines available to um solve and support some of the environmental um opportunities available in the in the industry. Uh we do support um strong pipeline safety for all pipelines including CO2 and we would support FMA's process to establish those rules properly.
▶ 2:26:33Are there associated with the CO2 pipeline versus other pipelines if proper safety protocols are put in
▶ 2:26:41I'm not I would have to follow up for you, but I'd be happy to.
▶ 2:26:43All right. Thank you so much. I yield
▶ 2:26:45Thank you. The gentle lady yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California's 15th district for 5 minutes for questions.
▶ 2:26:53Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses today. This is an incredibly important topic to my district. 15 years ago, a natural gas pipeline exploded in the Glen View neighborhood of San Bruno, just a few miles from my home in South San Francisco. Eyewitnesses said that the fireball shot over 1,000 ft into the air. The blast killed eight people, injured dozens more, and destroyed or damaged more than 100 homes. The impact on the community was devastating and long lasting.
▶ 2:27:21And it's exactly why we need to get this right. An NTSB report concluded that quote, "No one knew whether the pipeline under San Berno was safe. Not the utility, not the state regulators, and not the federal regulators." End quote. They want they went on to call it a failure of the entire system, a system of checks and balances that should have prevented this disaster. So, Mr.
▶ 2:27:45Kum, can you walk us through the root causes of the 2010 San Bruno explosion, specifically the organizational breakdowns and regulatory gaps that allowed such a catastrophe to
▶ 2:27:57Well, I can do my best. Um, uh, it's been a little while since I've looked at that NTSB report. Um uh but see I recognize we're coming up on 15 years uh in September and and my heart goes out to that community and your community.
▶ 2:28:12Um there was a section of pipe uh there that I I don't think a lot of operators would consider pipe and um because of the lack of initial testing standards um you know requiring to pressure test that pipe um it was never um allowed to fail under that hydro test um to discover that it wasn't um um um capable of handling that pressure of natural gas.
▶ 2:28:39Um, a lot of that came from, uh, acquisitions and lack of recordkeeping through acquisitions, um, from company to company. Um, and so the NTSB report had a a long list of recommendations on how operators could get to know their system to make sure that they would be able to identify if there were that kind of rogue pipe somewhere in their system um, susceptible to fail.
▶ 2:29:04and FIMSA has it took a long time but they have enacted a series of rulemakings in response to those recommendations and and there are some real improvements in those uh in those regulations that they've passed unfortunately because of the non-lication clause and and costbenefit not all of the NTSB recommendations were able to be implemented by FIMSA some of those key recommendations
▶ 2:29:28thank thank you for that so um under the Trump administration FIMSA's enforcement actions have dropped to record lows and nearly all of the agency's senior career staff has left. The agency has also delayed publishing a rule on gas leaks. Instead of prioritizing safety, unfortunately, administration has proposed slashing FIMSA's budget by $16 million and threatened to withhold funding from your organization. Uh Mr. Kum, the pipeline safety trust. So given all of that, uh my question is to you again, sir.
▶ 2:29:57Uh what does Congress need to do to ensure that pipelines are actually safer today than they were 15 years ago?
▶ 2:30:05I think Congress serves a critical oversight role um authorizing u the appropriate level of funding um uh appropriating that funding and um and then overseeing um how they are implementing the pipeline safety act. uh hearings such as this um um um can can do that. Um hearings with FIMSA um would be helpful as well.
▶ 2:30:31Um Congress uh asked FIMSA to um in its oversight role asked FIMSA to produce a web chart showing its progress towards all of the mandates towards rulemaking um and required that that be updated on a monthly basis. I think that's a a key piece of oversight. It's also key for members of the public um to really see where th those rulemakings are prioritized and um the last time I checked that hadn't been updated um since January.
▶ 2:31:03Appreciate the renewed attention on this. Thank you all for your testimony and with that I yield back. Mr. Chair,
▶ 2:31:07thank you. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from South Carolina 7th district for five minutes for questions.
▶ 2:31:16Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a fascinating hearing and I really appreciate the witnesses for being here. Um I'm struck a little bit by uh some of the commentary uh from the other side of the the dis uh that there is a perceived lack of enforcement. Mr. Black earlier with um in a dialogue with Mr. uh Fluger you talked about two different sessions if you will. What did you mean by that and could you expand upon that when it comes to enforcement?
▶ 2:31:43Couple of months ago, FIMSA's office of chief counsel issued publicly a guidance on how this administration is going to be enforcing pipeline safety. Congress in the 2020 act had said that more due process needed to be provided to respondents. So that was part of it. Uh before that series of memos from the chief counsel, there were public reports that numbers were down. Since then, the numbers of enforcement activities are higher.
▶ 2:32:12I don't think it's the numbers that matter to me. We look at is FIMSA on the case on major incidents. Do pipeline operators recognize that FIMSA is going to deter unsafe pipeline operations? Pipeline operators absolutely know that FIMSA has that authority and uh they're not thinking that this is uh they're they're recognizing that we still face enforcement potential from FINSA.
▶ 2:32:33So you're not the the maybe the chicken little exercise that we heard from the other side about the skies falling. you what you're saying is that you don't think that the current numbers substantiate that allegation.
▶ 2:32:45Correct. And I'm not sure if numbers are the right way to do it. On the Keystone, there was an action there was a quick corrective action order telling the pipeline operator change its operations until FIMZA approved it. That's the type of activities FIMSA is supposed to do.
▶ 2:32:57Mr. Black, who was the head of FIMSA under the Biden administration?
▶ 2:33:00It was Tristan Brown, the deputy administrator. There was no confirmed
▶ 2:33:05Why is that?
▶ 2:33:06We don't know. Uh, in my time there had never been an administration that failed to nominate an administrator.
▶ 2:33:12Well, I mean, we've all seen that the president, the former president was kind of asleep at the wheel for most of his administration. So, what you're saying is that there was no actual head. There was a deputy administrator, but no one uh that was dominated by the White House to be in the role. Uh is is that the same uh today or is there an actual
▶ 2:33:32there's a nominee Paul Roberie from the president to be the uh Senate confirmed head of FIMSA and he had his confirmation hearing last week and we hope he's adopted. We think it's better for FIMSA to have Senate confirmed leadership to be able to work with the
▶ 2:33:48What what is your understanding Mr. Black of the budget of FIMSA um under uh the 2025 fiscal year? What what did you do you know roughly what that number is?
▶ 2:33:59No, but I understand that the president's budget request is the same as it was in the last year.
▶ 2:34:04Do you would it uh $218 million? Does that sound about right for fiscal year 2025? Yes.
▶ 2:34:09How much of an increase do you think that that is from say fiscal year 2023?
▶ 2:34:14I don't know.
▶ 2:34:16$73 million.
▶ 2:34:18Right. So you've seen a dramatic So when we talk about scaling back funding or or saving the taxpayers money, this isn't a scenario where their their budget has been flat for years and they're receiving a cut. In fact, they received a 50% increase just two years prior to that. So again, when we're talking about funding, I think it's important to understand the context of that funding and where these funding mechanisms came from. Do you
▶ 2:34:44Yes. If we think FIMSA should be focused on pipeline safety, should have qualified personnel with STEM experience and pipeline operations expertise. If it takes Congress giving FIMSA extra help, we're ready to have them do that. We want FIMSA to have the resources that it
▶ 2:35:00to do the the job of the original
▶ 2:35:02Focus on pipeline safety. Yes.
▶ 2:35:04Correct. Not the other ancillary things. I mean, they've kind of become a deacto EPA, if you will, under at least the Biden administration.
▶ 2:35:10The emphasis was not there. Right. There were congressional mandates say on idled pipe that were just not issued during the last administration and they bungled the implementation of the pipeline safety technology demonstration program. We hope that this FIMSA will be focused on the right things.
▶ 2:35:25Thank you for that. Um Miss Miller, um one example of FIMSA regulations not keeping pace with modern-day conditions is the class location regulations which have been which have not been updated in about 50 years. Do you agree that population changes around pipelines necessitate changes to existing laws? Uh, and would those changes enhance pipeline safety?
▶ 2:35:48We believe that they are opportunities to ensure that risk assessments um including cross location analysis is done to ensure that the right priorities are and resources are made available for the highest priority safety uh results. So yes,
▶ 2:36:03thank you. FIMSA should also integrate efficiency uh and flexibility into the regulations to incentivize FIMSA to modernize. Would FIMSA integrating more uh integrity management principles into class location regulations elevate safety standards across more miles of
▶ 2:36:18We believe it would. Um performance-based measures across not only interstate pipelines but also for gathering and processing, I'm sorry, gathering and and local pipelines would would matter as well.
▶ 2:36:29Thank you for that, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 2:36:31Thank you. The gentleman's time has expired and the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from California's 7th district for 5 minutes for questions.
▶ 2:36:38Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the witnesses for being here today. Now, the safe operation of our nation's pipeline should be urgently priority for this committee, but it's now been almost two years since it authorization expired with the pipeline and hazardous material safety administration. FIMSA is crucial for protecting communities from deadly pipeline accidents, but Republicans on this committee clearly don't see this as a priority.
▶ 2:37:07Instead of working towards a common sense reauthorization of FIMSA, Republicans wasted the last two years trying to force through an extreme partisan bill that would cut pipeline safety by 18%. Now, under President Trump, I'm gravely concerned that pipeline safety has been caught in a broader Republican effort to roll back critical safety and pollution regul regulations across the federal government.
▶ 2:37:35As my colleagues have discussed, multiple senior officials at FIMSA resigned or having been pushed out of the agency. There's been a sharp decline drop in the number of enforcement actions taken by FIMSA and President Trump has rescended critical pipeline safety rules. Now, Mr. Kum, I'm going to keep this very simple. Are these actions going to increase or decrease the livelihood of a deeply pipeline disaster?
▶ 2:38:05Uh, thank you for that. Uh, as I stated before, I believe strong regulations and effective enforcement are critical to pipeline safety and uh, actions that um, erode those um, I I fear will hurt pipeline safety.
▶ 2:38:20Exactly. Um, Mr. Kum, this looks like a deliberate effort to FIMSA's capacity to act as an effective safety regulator in order to benefit the oil and gas industry. Would you disagree? I I can't speculate as to the motivations behind the actions. Not just FIMSA. This is part of a pattern EPA staff has been told not to enforce pollution rules.
▶ 2:38:46The Department of Energy has been ordered to stop enforcing efficiency standards. The Department of Labor has been ordered to stop enforcing anti-discrimination laws. This is a deliberate coordinated effort to weaken the protections that keep us safe. Now, I want to focus on the new rule for carbon dioxide pipelines for a moment because I think it demonstrates this point.
▶ 2:39:12As you mentioned in your testimony, it's now been 5 years since the CO2 pipeline disaster in Mississippi that sent 45 people to the hospital. FIMSA proposed new rules to prevent this disaster from happening again, but President Trump immediately withdrew the new rule just as new CO2 pipelines are being built across the country. Mr. Kum, can you briefly describe some of the unique challenges and concerns surrounding the carbon dioxide
▶ 2:39:43Sure. Um, so CO2 is an asphixxiient and it's heavier than air. Um, and it's usually transported in a pipeline in a dense phase. Uh, in the event of a pipeline rupture, large amounts of CO2 can escape from the pipeline and it can move in long distances close to the ground in dangerous and and even lethal concentrations. Um, it's odorless. It can be invisible, making it really difficult to detect.
▶ 2:40:11Um, so all of these unique physical properties really present unique risks relative to other types of pipelines and unique emergency response challenges as well.
▶ 2:40:19How do the proposed the new proposed rule for CO2 pipelines address these
▶ 2:40:25Well, it proposed new standards to ensure that ruptures would be less likely to occur like stronger construction and design standards and real-time monitoring. Um, it also made sure that all parts of the pipeline uh where a failure could affect a community um would be subject to stricter safety standards and it also made improvements to an operator's responsibility um to ensure strong emergency response.
▶ 2:40:49So, does the president's decision to kill this rule make communities more safe or less safe? Well, if it's between finalizing the proposed rule or not modernizing the regulations, um, not modernizing the regulations makes makes communities less safe.
▶ 2:41:04Less safe. Mr. Karen, without new safety rules, will we see another tragedy like the disaster in Mississippi?
▶ 2:41:11I certainly hope not. Um, we will be relying on operators to um, follow voluntary industry standards instead of the law.
▶ 2:41:18Okay, let me just talk about hydrogen blending. Um, blending hydrogen into natural gas pipelines also prevents new safety concerns that need to be addressed. Mr. Kum, can you briefly describe some of the unique challenges and concerns with hydrogen blending
▶ 2:41:34in about five seconds?
▶ 2:41:37I'm not sure I can do that in five qu uh five seconds.
▶ 2:41:41Okay. Um,
▶ 2:41:42could could the uh lady submit the question to the witness?
▶ 2:41:45I writing. Thank you very much.
▶ 2:41:47Thank you very much. Thank you. The chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Florida's 15th district for five minutes for questions.
▶ 2:41:56Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here with us today. As American demand for energy continues to grow, it is essential that our pipeline infrastructure is prepared to meet this need. Pipelines are critical for transporting oil, natural gas, and our other energy resources. My home state of Florida is a large producer of electricity and relies heavily on pipelines uh to deliver energy.
▶ 2:42:23So I appreciate your testimony and the discussion. Mr. Morardi, I'd like to return to something you said just a few moments ago. You mentioned that one of the top risks you perceive for pipeline safety is in fact cyber security. Would you share with us a bit more about the cyber threat landscape you are seeing and how you're partnering with federal agencies like the FBI and SISA to meet that threat?
▶ 2:42:50Thank you very much for the question. Um I guess what I would say to start with is because of the cyber threat we took our um SCADA system which is responsible for the operations safe operations of our systems. We took that off our corporate system and we put it into what we call a DMZ zone which means nobody can get access to it.
▶ 2:43:15So even if there is a breach somewhere on our system, it won't get into the pipeline safe Every day we have threats. We have a scoreboard where we see threats coming in in real time. Uh most because of the investments we have made, most of those are stopped before they become a real threat.
▶ 2:43:36However, if there is a threat, it is sequestered and then is studied by our team uh and then we report that to the various authorities, the FBI and others. And we have briefings uh constantly with the federal partners to help us address this.
▶ 2:43:56And Mr. Black, in your written testimony, you recommended the authorization of a voluntary information sharing program. Uh in his confirmation hearing, FIMSA nominee Paul Roerti emphasized the importance of information sharing specifically on cyber security. Would you share with us more your perspective on that subject? We have a great opportunity to do for pipelines what FAA has done to improve safety in ed in aviation.
▶ 2:44:24In the 2016 pipeline uh reauthorization law, Congress said FEZA should form a public advis advisory committee to come up with recommendations on how to develop this type of program. That work has been done and it's ready for Congress to help authorize it. The benefit would be that pipeline operators, the com safety advocates and government could all talk about incidents and lessons in a safe space.
▶ 2:44:52They're con so we're not concerned about antitrust violations. We're not concerned about that information getting out into the wrong hands. It's really been successful in aviation where pilots, machinists, anybody is able to get that information with the focus on improving pipeline safety. So if Congress can enact voluntary information sharing systems similar to what the advisory committee done did, uh we will be able to do that type of a program that the NTSB and others will be cheering us on.
▶ 2:45:18And I think it's important to explore something you just touched on, which is the concept of being able to share that kind of information in a safe space. Would you elaborate a little bit more on the types of things that can happen if we don't create an environment like that? for example, the information falling into the wrong hands and how that can exacerbate a vulnerability or uh you know the other potential consequences you face if we don't have a clear framework for sharing that kind of risk or even breach or incident
▶ 2:45:47So pipeline operators themselves maintain a lot of different programs for sharing information. We want to learn from an incident and get better across the entire industry. But there's a limitation right now in being able to have that discussion with government or to have the pipeline safety trust in the room. You want pipeline operators to and anybody in the industry to be able to contribute that information and understand that that's going to be considered confidential confidentially. It's not going to be misused against you in enforcement.
▶ 2:46:16There should be enforcement cases going on but nothing in here should invoke that so that we can do safety. Right now, government isn't allowed to be a part of those discussions right now because they would have to uh put that information out on the street if asked. It's been successful in aviation. Let's do it for pipelines.
▶ 2:46:37Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 2:46:39Thank you. The gentle lady yields back the balance of her time. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York's 20th district for five minutes for
▶ 2:46:46Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to our panelists. Um, while I hope we can reach consensus on a bipartisan pipeline safety reauthorization, I have my doubts because recent history has shown that Republicans never miss an opportunity to promote fossil fuel industry interests. And we failed to reach agreement on a bipartisan bill last Congress, unlike our colleagues on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee because Republicans couldn't help themselves but to include extraneous provisions intended to promote oil and gas.
▶ 2:47:15And that dedication to fossil fuels led President Trump and congressional Republicans to end critical tax credits for fossil fuels biggest competitors, renewables in the electricity sector and EVs in the transportation sector. This happened despite the fact that numerous independent analyses found that the Republicans proposal will raise Americ's energy bills by more than $100 annually in the near term, growing to more than $400 within a decade.
▶ 2:47:42So during our last markup of energy bills, members of the majority continued to invoke the Keystone Excel pipeline, suggesting that the Obama and Biden administrations killed jobs. But after the big ugly bill, it has become crystally crystally clear who actually cares about American energy jobs. Don't take my word for it. Listen to the people who construct both renewable and pipeline projects.
▶ 2:48:06North America's building trades unions called the Republicans's big ugly bill, and I quote, "the biggest jobk killing bill in the history of this country. It is the equivalent of terminating more than 1,000 Keystone XL pipeline projects." So all of these years later, Republicans want to continue to relitigate Keystone while enacting a bill that will kill an estimated 1.75 million construction jobs, translating to 148 billion in lost annual wages and benefits for American workers. But Mr.
▶ 2:48:35Carum, I want to try to highlight a couple of issues at FIMSA that may affect its ability to ensure safe operations of pipeline infrastructure. Your testimony noted that insufficient resources have resulted in FIMSA lacking technical capabilities causing the agency to be overly reliant on regulated entities technical expertise to carry out its This is an extremely troubling trend being implemented across many agencies by the Trump administration.
▶ 2:49:04Starving important life-saving regulatory agencies of skilled personnel and resources is a surefire way to allow corporate entities to cut corners at the expense of everyday Americans, our collective public um interests. We're seeing this playbook be exe executed right now as the Trump administration works to eliminate EPA's office of research and development and lay off hundreds of chemists, toxicologists, and other scientists.
▶ 2:49:31And that is because these public servants produce independent science that regulated industries often don't like. Polluters want their regulators to be toothless, to rely upon them for science, and to lack the capacity to verify industry, produce studies, or enforce rules. So, Mr. Kum, I think you might suggest that there has been an historic funding challenge at FIMSA limiting its ability to be an effective independent safety regulator.
▶ 2:49:57But do you have a sense of whether things will get better or worse if Congress further reduces FIMSA funding authorization levels as was proposed by committee Republicans just a few years ago?
▶ 2:50:08Yes, I'd have to imagine they would get
▶ 2:50:11So I thank you for that. And I want to highlight another disturbing trend being advanced by the Trump administration and Republicans in Congress. Between the ongoing appropriations process and the big ugly bill, federal budget cuts are pushing more and more costs onto state governments which will require states to fill funding gaps or be forced to cut benefits and services. So, Mr. Karum, am I correct that states are partners in the effort to conduct inspections and oversight of pipelines?
▶ 2:50:38Yes, the vast majority of the pipeline mileage in this country are under state jurisdiction for inspections and enforcement. And if that commitment by the feds is reduced, what happens um to the states?
▶ 2:50:51Yes, state programs, as as we've heard um throughout this hearing, um uh are are in need of that funding. Um they can get up to 80% of their pipeline safety program reimbursed by federal funds through that state grant program. And historically, they have not come close to that 80%. So if states are unwilling or unable to cover more of the cost to be effective partners, will that make Americans more or less safe from potential pipeline risks?
▶ 2:51:17I would imagine safe uh less safe.
▶ 2:51:19Less safe. So not an outcome that we should all be working towards. So if we can avoid that, we should do our best to do so. With that, I thank you and I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:51:29Thank you. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Ohio's sixth district for five minutes for I'm pretty loud. I'll just speak.
▶ 2:51:52Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh my intention will be directed at Andy Black. I hope you're doing well today. Uh so, thank you for your support in liquid energy. I really appreciate that. My district really much uh relies on it. So several points of focus of how safe pipelines could actually make the Ohio sex a better place to live is we are now have a project of a cracker plant which will mimic the Manaka cracker plant which is across the border in Pennsylvania. It's a 12.5 billion dollar project. A lot of union jobs will be building that.
▶ 2:52:22Uh it's very exciting. It's going to crack the gas into butane, propane, heavy gas, liquid gas, all kinds of exciting things. Uh in the Ohio Senate I was instrumental in building three gas power generated plants. It was a thrill of mine. We right now have about $40 billion worth of potential investors that are going to come to the Ohio 6. We're going to build six or seven more of these.
▶ 2:52:43And so what's going to happen is the Ohio Senate right now has Senate Bill 2, which is an energy bill, which is going to direct state money to coexist with federal money as a united force to developing energy. Uh data centers are coming up. AI advancement centers are coming up and general manufacturing is coming all along the Ohio River. Pipelines support this industry and sometimes run through the our neighborhoods and they need to be safe.
▶ 2:53:06One of the most exciting things is the evolution of the pipelines that I have seen in my career and the development of what you call the smart pipeline which I think most of the public is ignorant on. Smart pipeline actually allows for a safer progress of moving gas around through these neighborhoods. The liquid and gas pipeline advisory committees were created decades ago with the help of on safety rulemaking and policy development. What is your personal perspective on the value of these advisory committees and their existence with safe pipelines?
▶ 2:53:38Well, the project that you mentioned in Ohio and those in the Marcellis are are great wonderful examples to create jobs to benefit and not have to take it all down to the Gulf Coast, right? So, it's great for our country to have that flexibility. The advisory committees were created by Congress to make regulations better. Right? Any proposal that FIMSA has needs to go to the gas or liquid or sometimes both and that can make for a good exchange on helping people understand how a regulation should be modified to be more feasible, practical, economical.
▶ 2:54:08So, it's good that we have those advisory committees and we would look forward to future regulations going there.
▶ 2:54:14I think that's really exciting. I think in making these committees even more strong is really what the exciting part is. Right now these committees are meeting four times a year. In your personal opinion, do you think that needs to happen more frequently? Uh and what better ways can we put to have guardrails inside these committees to have more safety, more rulemaking, more compliance to industry so the industry becomes a safer process.
▶ 2:54:35I know some of my gas colleagues believe it's important to have a certain number of advisory committees. To me, quality is more important than quantity. Let's make sure those advisory committee members are up to speed not just on regulation but also on technology tech technological developments so that everybody understands what the latest possibilities are. That may take more
▶ 2:54:55Do you think it's possible that we could take the political bent away from these advisory committees so it could be more of a bipartisan approach where everyone's voice could actually be represented in the committee and nobody would feel left out or threatened to be part of this process?
▶ 2:55:07Yeah, they're constructed that way and they should be. Yes, sir. Well, I thank you so much for your thoughts on this. And with that, uh, chair, I yield my
▶ 2:55:15Thank you. The gentleman yields his time back. And the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from New York's 14th district for five minutes for questions.
▶ 2:55:23Thank you so much, Mr. Chairum. Uh, Mr. Chairman, uh, Mr. Karum, I want to touch on something that you mentioned in your written testimony, uh, which is that pipeline safety law currently prevents the pipeline hazardous material safety administration or FIMSA, uh, which we are discussing today from imposing safety regulations on existing pipelines. And that was frankly shocking to me.
▶ 2:55:49It means that it will be a monumental task to make the existing 3.3 million miles of pipelines in our communities safer. Um, can you talk about how this requirement prevents us from making the most dangerous pipelines in America safer? And should be we look at altering that requirement in any reauthorization of FIMSA?
▶ 2:56:12Yeah, thank you for that question. Um the pipeline safety act passed by Congress has a section in it a provision um where it says that the design any design construction or initial testing standards um adopted by FIMSA cannot apply to existing pipelines only new and replace pipelines. So, you know, operational regulations and things like that can apply to uh existing pipelines, but those, you know, initial testing, design and construction standards cannot.
▶ 2:56:40And what that means in practice is that FIMSA has been unable to make certain life-saving uh um regulatory changes um including those recommended by the NTSB after tragedies like San Bruno. Um
▶ 2:56:54um like uh requiring rupture mitigation valves in high consequence areas that that we know would save lives. Um, so in practice, this permanently exempts um about half of the nation's pipelines from um and and including those at the highest risk um from meeting critical modern safety standards.
▶ 2:57:14Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Kum. And as you mentioned, it's important to highlight something that you said. half of pipelines in the US are essentially blocked from having these additional safety standards for communities and workers on them um in and being updated to be safer.
▶ 2:57:32Miss Miller, you represent an association of pipeline companies and I see here in your testimony uh that it states that your members quote appreciate improved due process unquote for companies that violate the laws as a priority. I want to discuss the consequences for pipeline companies when they fail to follow the law and FIMSA's rules.
▶ 2:57:55Just over five years ago, an employee of Energy Transfer, a pipeline company and a member of your organization was killed while conducting maintenance activities on a gas pipeline in Kansas. This employee was attempting to remove an object that had become stuck due to ice in a partly pressurized pipeline. Now, FIMSO's rules require operators to completely depressurize pipelines before working on them.
▶ 2:58:22But this worker was attempting to remove the object using a steel rod when the object became dislodged and due to remaining pressure in the pipeline struck him in the abdomen and killed him. Now, Energy Transfer is in court arguing that it should not be held to account for the fact that it did not follow FIMSA's rules. Mr. Mr. Chair, I seek unanimous consent to enter into the record a complaint brought by the attorney general in the Northern District Court of Texas.
▶ 2:58:49Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 2:58:51This complaint states that quote, "Fimsa's investigation indicates that Energy Transfer failed to follow its manual of written procedures for conducting operations and maintenance activities at the Borcher station in connection with this fatal incident. Someone died." Now, one of the biggest companies in the industry, Energy Transfer, is in court arguing that FIMSA shouldn't be able to hold any company that violates its rules responsible.
▶ 2:59:20Miss Miller, you mentioned due process for companies that violate laws in your testimony as a priority. In your opinion, if a pipeline company does not follow the rules and a worker is killed, should FIMSA be able to hold that company responsible?
▶ 2:59:35Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. I would say that any specific questions about energy transfers litigation, I would have to defer to them. But for GPA midstream members, generally speaking, we do encourage uh that our members um are able to rely on a strong enforcement um uh protocol and that it is executed in a way that is transparent and complies with law.
▶ 3:00:02Due process being part of that to ensure that they are that there are
▶ 3:00:06I apologize. I only have uh 15 seconds left. Should FIMSA be able to hold the companies responsible?
▶ 3:00:12We do believe that uh FEMA should be a strong enforcement um agency and and equitably apply its um rules across the
▶ 3:00:22Okay, great. So, they should be able to hold these companies responsible and yet we are in an environment where the Trump administration and their enforcement actions against pipeline companies.
▶ 3:00:31I'm sorry, the general lead time is
▶ 3:00:33Sure. Thank you. Thank you.
▶ 3:00:34Thank you very much. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Colorado's eighth district for five minutes for
▶ 3:00:42Thank you, Mr. Cool. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair, ranking member, of course, also to our witnesses for coming. Um, again, you heard Colorado's 8th congressional district. So, we've got 80% of the oil, 50% of the natural gas in Colorado. That's from uh the the hole uh in the ground uh through Midstream through we've got the only refinery in Colorado and then final distribution um to to the end users. And so a lot of that obviously happens through pipelines.
▶ 3:01:07And we know, you know, we've heard in the commentary today, pipelines, safest way uh to move this liquid energy around in terms of uh of accidents. I want to make sure we also highlight the emissions. We had a incident in Colorado um where some of our uh some of that local distribution uh that relies on the pipelines uh went down during a really really hard freeze.
▶ 3:01:28And so to backfill all of that energy that couldn't be transported via pipeline uh for a few months, it was thousands and thousands of trucks uh keeping the Denver metro area going uh in the debt of winter. We've talked obviously about the you know the wear and tear that that has on the roadway uh and and traffic safety when you have that massive increase of vehicles.
▶ 3:01:47Um, but I want to make sure that the emissions component of that uh isn't lost when we're talking about the climate and the fact that pipelines uh are again one of the lowest emission uh sources, ways of um moving some of this energy around. uh they alleviate that critical demand uh on our electrical infrastructure.
▶ 3:02:05Um because backfilling, you know, in my area, all of the heat uh that comes from uh natural gas combustion uh which is what heats a lot of homes in my area, backfilling that with uh with electrical demand is incredibly difficult uh and challenging and costly uh to a lot of our consumers in Colorado.
▶ 3:02:23We've unfortunately seen a first in the nation mandated uh so-called beneficial electrification plan for a major utility uh in Colorado mandating that even though they're not an electrical provider, they do natural gas distribution to customers, they have to have this uh so-called beneficial electrical electrical plan uh which is raising costs uh for consumers uh by dropping those heavy-handed mandates on consumers who want energy choice and want to be able to choose what works best for them, their family um and their budget.
▶ 3:02:53So my first question will be to Mr. Morardi. Can you just talk a little bit about the impact uh to consumers and to consumers pocketbooks from that utility perspective uh with the the current program that we have of making sure that our pipelines are are regulated that as we've heard safest way to move this energy around? Uh but can we can you talk a little bit about the impact to the customers uh if we were to take a different path and have more regulatory burden on pipelines?
▶ 3:03:20Well, thank you for that question. uh all the costs that go in to delivering energy are recovered from our customers through state commission rate proceedings. One way that we've avoided higher costs is to construct LG storage facilities uh to meet peak day demand. So you were talking about freeze offs. We would have an L LG storage facility that would be available. We have one in Florida as well as a one now we're building on Delm Marva.
▶ 3:03:52Yeah, thank you for that. And then uh next question will be to uh Mr. Black. Obviously, pipeline safety top of mind for everybody. We've talked a lot about it and so I just want this to be our I think our our final thought for this hearing here. Um we need an empowered entity to step up and take action against bad actors that put the public safety at risk. And so that's why I was glad to see that FIMSA announced revisions to its pipeline safety enforcement uh actions last month to improve transparency and fairness.
▶ 3:04:19And so can you just comment on those changes um how they alter the um enforcement dynamics for operators and uh just talk a little bit about the evidentiary record process as well.
▶ 3:04:30Congress has recognized there are failings in how FIMSA has managed its administrative enforcement program. In the 2020 pipes act, Congress mandated that FIMSA improve its procedures, including making the case file available to a respondent in a case. Then FIMSA in the last administration failed to do that. It happened episodically sometimes not others and it wasn't really codified in FIMSA's regulations. And so FIMSA has now in the last month as you say improved that.
▶ 3:04:59It's a it's a level playing field. That's all pipeline operators are asking for due process when FIMSA exerts his administrative enforcement program because pipeline operators know that FIMSA needs to be active and deter unsafe operations and give Congress and the American public confidence that they are on that case making sure that we have a safe network.
▶ 3:05:19Well, with our final 24 seconds, I guess I'll just close with I think we've heard safety is top of mind in this space. We have that record of safety. you have that record of being responsible toward the climate because this is one of the lowest emission ways to move energy around. Uh it's cost-effective for consumers. Uh and then in my district, this provides highquality jobs for a highquality workforce that maintain these pipelines. And I yield back, Mr.
▶ 3:05:44Right on the button. Thank you very much. Uh seeing no further members wishing to be recognized to ask questions to our witnesses, I want to thank you all for appearing before us for today. members have have additional written questions. They may be for you and I'll remind members that they have 10 business days to submit additional questions for the record. And I ask that the witness do their best to submit the responses within 10 business days upon the receipt of the questions.
▶ 3:06:10Uh I ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the documents included u on the staff hearing documents list and without objection that is so ordered. And again I want to thank our witnesses and Mr. Black. welcome back having been a former uh staffer here on the committee. Also, this is the last hearing that we'll have in this room until it's um uh I guess we might say worked on. We've had a little bit of issues in this room through the years, but u we really appreciate you being here.
▶ 3:06:40Without objection, the subcommittee is adjourned.