▶ 0:03:03I forget the button. Thought I hit the button. All right. Do I need to do that over again? Probably not. Welcome. Thank you for joining our hearing today entitled Promoting Forest Health and Resiliency Through Improved Active Management. After brief opening remarks, members will receive testimony from our witnesses today and then the hearing will be open to questions. So in consultation with the ranking member and pursuant to rule 11, excuse me, 11E, I want to make members of the subcommittee aware that other members of the full committee may join us today.
▶ 0:03:33So um so with that uh once again welcome uh today we'll be hearing from a panel of witnesses to discuss the national forest system state and private forest and the many issues before the US forest service and the communities located in those forested areas.
▶ 0:03:56Today's hearing is also an opportunity to receive feedback on these important issues and recommendations on what Congress could do to encourage more active management of our forest to restore them, improve forest health, encourage the use of more forest products, and very importantly, reduce the threat of catastrophic wildfire in areas that are the highest risk of these everpresent dangers. That last part is especially important. In the West, we continue to witness devastating wildfires year after year as millions of acres of forest land are burned annually.
▶ 0:04:24the loss of forest, homes, property, wildlife, the environmental damage, so much more than we should be enduring. So, it unfortunately continues to be a challenge as we constantly face this in the West. The increased severity and impacts of wildfires as a result of inadequate management, in some cases outright mismanagement of our forest lands over decades. In this year alone, more more than 47,000 wildfires in the US have burned more than 4 million acres of land.
▶ 0:04:50As yesterday, we'd have some 66 large fires currently burning in 12 states, including uh in the west, Idaho, California, Montana, Washington, Oregon, and several others. Early in the year, we saw an unprecedented urban fire situation in Southern California, which is indeed an unfortunate unfortunate example of what can happen if we aren't prepared for these threats in all aspects. What was once a fire season, especially in Southern California, need seems to be now more of a fire year, a constant year- round effect.
▶ 0:05:20Even now, fires rage across the northern and eastern parts of my own district, my colleagues in Oregon, Nevada, as as we named them off, burning thousands of acres of land and devastating wildfires that ultimately are preventable. It's a crisis. More needs to be done to increase the pace and scale of forest management and reduce the levels of haz hazardous fuels across our forests. We need every tool in the toolbox. We need to be thinking about partnerships and management on a much larger scale than we have in the recent past.
▶ 0:05:48I appreciate many of the actions taken by this administration this year to do just that. Specifically, the identification of new acreage in need of treatment and plans to ramp up the use of emergency authorities. Those are good starts. Another promising initiative is the effort to increase timber harvest levels above the current targets. For decades, harvesting in national forest has remained far below previous levels and below the mount authorized the amount authorized in current plans.
▶ 0:06:14Increasing these goals will help support forest products, rural communities, and overall management of the national forest system. With all that in mind, Congress still has much more to do to support the agency, the states, counties, tribes, and other partners to accelerate forest management. Last year's House Farm Bill, the Farm, Food, and National Security Act, provided a variety of new tools and authorities intended to expand partnerships, continue cross boundary management, improve environmental processes, and help grow new markets for forest products.
▶ 0:06:42These are positive reforms that will help land managers store our forest and protect communities by reducing the threat of wildfire. I support these reforms. I'm hopeful this committee and Congress will see will soon pass a new farm bill, the rest of the farm bill, and see these many improvements signed into law. Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today, as well as our colleagues on the panel.
▶ 0:07:03Your experience and testimony as a witnesses are invaluable to this committee and Congress as Congress considers ways to better manage our forest and truly improve wildlife And with that, I'd uh like to uh also specifically acknowledge from my home district uh Carrie Monahan from Moretown Rancheria for traveling all the way from California. I know what that's like. Welcome to all of our witnesses and we look forward to your testimony and perspectives.
▶ 0:07:31And I will now yield to our ranking member Selenas for any mo her opening remarks.
▶ 0:07:36Well, thank you chairman Lamalfa for convening us today. And thank you to our witnesses for being here and making the check out. And I especially want to thank Dean Duca who has consistently provided my team um and me with valuable input that informs our work here in Washington. I know the dean's testimony and answers today along with the perspectives of our other distinguished witnesses will give this subcommittee important insights as we consider the future of active forest management um across the country.
▶ 0:08:03I want to be clear at the outset of this hearing, active science-based management is not about clear-cutting large swats of forests. It's about targeted thinning, prescribed fire, fuels reduction, and other practices that restore balance to ecosystems and reduce wildfire risks to our communities. We can prevent and combat catastrophic wildfires without irreparably harming and damaging the habitat and ecosystems we require to survive as humans.
▶ 0:08:30Unfortunately, even as the need for active management has grown more urgent, recent actions by the Trump administration have undermined the Forest Services ability to actually meet that challenge. The department of a proposed reorganization which would centralize staff and research in district in distant hubs threatens to strip away local expertise and the trusted partnerships that are essential for success. That includes long-standing collaborations with institutions like the Oregon State University. Workforce reductions have only worsened the problem.
▶ 0:08:58As many as 5,000 Forest Service employees have been lost this year when the agency already isn't meeting its needed staffing requirements. These personnel cuts have primarily impacted staff who were relatively new to their roles as well as the AY's most experienced staff nearing the end of their careers. The result is critical gaps in knowledge, research, and local capacity at the very moment when we should be scaling up all of these efforts.
▶ 0:09:25On top of these workforce challenges, the Trump administration's budget proposes deep reductions to the very programs that help state, tribal, and private partners carry out active management. These are the programs that fund cooperative agreements, technical assistance, and crossboundary projects. Cutting them undermines the ability of states and tribes to match federal efforts on the ground, weakening the partnerships we know are essential for forest health. That leads me to a larger point. The success of active forest management depends on partnerships.
▶ 0:09:56Tribes, states, and local governments, universities, and private land owners all bring unique tools and expertise to this work. Programs like Good Neighborhood Authority, service first agreements, and shared stewardship show what's possible when we work together. In Oregon, we've seen firsthand how impactful these partnerships can be, and institutions like Oregon State have proven how seamlessly they can work with their federal partners.
▶ 0:10:19But instead of strengthen these strengthening these partnerships, the Trump administration has pursued theatrical actions that will undermine our ability to meaningfully improve the health and resilience of our forests. One example is Secretary Rollins repeal of the 2001 roadless rule, which she justified as a way to expand active management and reduce wildfire risk. The truth is that roadless areas are remote and costly to access. They're not landscapes where decades of logging and deferred management have led to overstock and increased fire risk.
▶ 0:10:49They're not where wildfire poses the greatest threat to communities, people, and property. In fact, research shows that fire risk only increases in areas with roads and human activities. Our priority must be to focus on active management where the risk is highest, not to resin protections in hopes of opening up new areas for industrial access.
▶ 0:11:09The subcommittee has a responsibility to ensure that forest service has the resources, workforce, and research capacity it needs to carry out its mission and ensure the health and resilience of our nation's forest lands. We must advance policies in the upcoming farm bill and beyond that expands scienceinformed management, strengthens partnerships, and keeps our focus squarely on protecting people, communities, and ecosystems at risk. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and working together to chart a path forward that will help us achieve these goals.
▶ 0:11:39Thank you so much, and I yield back.
▶ 0:11:42Thank you, Mr. Selenus. Uh we'll recognize our chairman of our a committee, Mr. Thompson, for uh his
▶ 0:11:49Well, thank you, Mr. chairman, ranking member, and thanks to our witnesses for being here today. Uh, chairman and ranking member. Great job of uh the folks you have brought to the table uh for this hearing. I'm excited to uh read their testimony. Excited to uh to hear from them. Um, you know, coming to Washington is never easy, but it's so important for you to be here and to share your perspectives today to bring your expertise.
▶ 0:12:14Uh for decades, our nation's forests have seen a decline in forest health due to a lack of management uh invasive species outbreaks, overgrowth, and other factors. I'm proud of the work this committee has done over the past several farm bill cycles um to provide the Forest Service with a number of tools and authorities intending to en encourage more active uh management uh more partnerships and the use of uh force products.
▶ 0:12:44uh the expanding the markets for example this includes the authorization of the good neighbor uh authorities for crossboundary projects and expanded categorical exclusions just to such as insect and disease CES just just to name a few. Uh these are common sense reforms that will help encourage more landscape scale management of the national forest system and adjacent forest lands.
▶ 0:13:10Now given the scale of the restoration and the fuels reduction needed on millions of acres uh we must be thinking about management on a much larger landscape scale. Uh no I remain encouraged by many of the president's executive orders and management actions proposed by the forest service particularly the efforts to increase harvest above the current targets.
▶ 0:13:32This committee must also do its part to support the agency to help get this more work on the ground as quickly and as effectively as possible. Last year, this committee favorably reported the Farm Food and National Security Act to deliver a new farm bill for rural America.
▶ 0:13:49Uh, title eight, the forestry title, expanded on the good work that this committee has done in the 2014 and 2018 farm bills in a variety of ways to encourage more management, more market opportunities for forest products and common sense improvements to environmental processes and forest service administration. Uh, we're now two years past the original expiration of the 2018 Farm Bill and the the time to act on a new law is now.
▶ 0:14:19I look forward to hearing from her witnesses on how we can encourage improved forest health and resiliency and what this committee should also be thinking about to further support forest managers and rural communities. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 0:14:35Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I'll recognize our ranking member, Angie Craig, for any comments you'd have to make.
▶ 0:14:40Thank you so much, Mr. chairman and thank you to my colleagues for organizing this hearing and especially to our witnesses for taking time out of your busy schedules to be here today. I'm pleased to see the committee engage more on forestry issues and specifically the current conversation about the future of the US Forest Service. I cannot overstate my concern over the hollowing out of the Forest Service in recent months.
▶ 0:15:06We have lost countless dedicated public servants, many of whom held wild wildfire certifications, served on the line during fire season, and played essential support roles for the AY's core functions. In total, the agency has lost more than 5,000 employees, amounting to nearly 15% of the total workforce.
▶ 0:15:31I hope our witnesses will speak to the effect this downsizing is having or may have on the Forest Service's ability to fulfill its critical mission. Many of this administration's policies regarding the Forest Service are deeply concerning.
▶ 0:15:46They have recklessly proposed slashing federal funding for state, tribal, and private forestry programs that provide critical technical and financial assistance to forest land owners and land managers, helping to conserve our nation's forests and protect vulnerable communities from wildfire. I know we have witnesses here today that can share with us the importance of these farm bill authorized programs.
▶ 0:16:13The president's budget also included the total elimination of funding for all but one of the forest services research and development programs. The worldclass scientists at Forest Service research stations throughout the country work every day to develop early warning technology that keeps our communities and firefighters on the front line safe.
▶ 0:16:37They analyze data to identify where we are most vulnerable to fire, landslides, or insect and disease outbreaks and test responses so that we can protect our communities with evidence-based management practices. My colleagues on this subcommittee cannot ignore the risk this administration is taking here in managing these critical issues.
▶ 0:17:00Proposals to move wildfire activity out of the Forest Service, especially during an active fire season, are ill-informed and threaten the AY's comprehensive approach to forest management. Additionally, the administration's announcement to rescend the 2001 roadless rule puts our forests at greater risk of wildfire, watershed degradation, degradation, and wildlife habitat loss.
▶ 0:17:29There are more high priority acres that need management to reduce these risks than we currently have capacity to treat. We should target these rather than reopening a decades old political fight that is sure to result in litigation. I share this administration's goal to increase active management on federal lands. And I agree that more board feet need to come off our national forest to reduce the risk of mega fires, which is added the added benefit of supporting the wood products industry.
▶ 0:18:00But do we even have the staff capacity to accomplish our timber goals? And if we eliminate forest service R&D, will the wood products industry end up suffering more than it benefits from changes to federal policy? More recently, the USDA's half-baked reorganization plan promises to consolidate forestry research scientists and jeopardizes the work they're doing with universities and other partners throughout the country.
▶ 0:18:28Simply put, all these decisions undermine the Forest Services statutory requirement to manage our nation's forests to meet the needs of present and future generations. A five-year farm bill represents a serious opportunity in front of this committee to not only address the common sense issues that everyone agrees need to be made, but also the challenges and concerns which undermine the Forest Services mission and threaten force across the country.
▶ 0:18:57Only if a farm bill process is truly and meaningfully bipartisan and devoid of poison pills will we be able to provide stability to the Forest Service, clarify congressional intent on the AY's operations, and challenge some of the administration's most ill-informed and rash decisions. I look forward to working with my colleagues, our witnesses, and the broader forestry community on the way forward. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
▶ 0:19:27Thank you, Ranking Member uh Craig. Um, normally this would be the time I would have the witnesses give their testimony, but we have multiple committees today. So, I'd like to have the opportunity for our members here to be able to get the uh their work in here before they would have to go. So, I'm going to recognize Mr. Moore for five minutes with a statement and questions of the panel. So, panel be ready and we'll get to your uh comments in a moment here. Thank you.
▶ 0:19:51Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:19:53Thank you for our witnesses. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. I recently sat down for a conversation about the future of space mining and how we might one day source minerals and metals from beyond Earth to fuel innovation here at home. But there's one resource the scientists have yet to find in space and that's wood. The Lord put our forest right here on Earth and they remain one of the most renewable, reliable resources we've been blessed with.
▶ 0:20:20all while supporting jobs, communities, industries across Alabama and our entire nation. Mr. Dne, your testimony described the Fix Our Forest Act as comprehensive forest management. In your view, what are the most important forest management reforms provided by that legislation are the Farm Food and National Security Act?
▶ 0:20:42Uh, Mr. Chairman, um, committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to talk about that. the Fix Our Forest Act, first of all, is a forest management and a wildfire mitigation um piece of legislation, the American the logging industry are just merely tools to help accomplish those objectives uh in the Fix Our Forest Act. Now, there's quite a few things that are included in the Fix Our Forest Act.
▶ 0:21:08Um, one of them, I know this is somewhat controversial, is litigation reform, but there's no denying the fact that litigation has dragged out um billions of board feet of uh of timber management um for for protracted periods of time and resulted in um many lost opportunities. So, litigation reform is important. Um let me see here. the fix our forest act.
▶ 0:21:33Obviously they're looking at uh increasing the scope and and scale or pace and scale of uh forest management and that's extremely critical as well. The western states particularly that are are dependent upon federal timber have been um choked out in many instances to the point where the supply was not there to support the mills uh remaining viable. In California alone, uh there were 150 mills uh 20 25 years ago down to 27 mills there.
▶ 0:22:03So increasing the available timber uh supply is is vital to supporting the infrastructure um that's necessary for forest management. Uh there as an example um if there's no market, there's no management.
▶ 0:22:20So the litigation itself is slowing the process of getting the timber to the mills. Is that kind of what I'm understanding, Mr. Dne? Is that part of it? What else is causing issues?
▶ 0:22:29That's that's part of it. I mean, it drags it out for multiple years. And um as an example, fire salvage timber that is put up for sale. Uh it can be dragged out six years before it can actually go to market. 18 months after the fire goes through, the value of the timber is useless except for anything more than biomass. So, um, if we could salvage that within that 18-month period, we could add value to it and utilize that timber. That's an
▶ 0:22:58Gotcha. Mr. Dane, uh, retaining sawmills, obviously, an increase in forest product infrastructure continues to be a challenge in many areas. Given that the industry is key partner in managing forest, do you think there are ways that we can help sustain and support new processing and infrastructure? I think the lawsuits are part of that, but what else do you think we might could do from Congress's standpoint to help? Well, I think that a major a major step with this administration uh has occurred with the trade investigations and the imports.
▶ 0:23:28As an example, the United States uh sawmills are operating at 72% capacity right now and they can obviously go up to 85 plus% capacity. We're importing, we're the largest importer of softwood lumber in the world right now. Uh we can we can produce more domestically. Um as another example uh Brazil is uh exporting plywood to the United States while the United States is closing plywood mills.
▶ 0:23:56So trade is a very big uh factor uh regarding um increasing um market share and supporting the current infrastructure.
▶ 0:24:07All right, Miss Barnes, one last question. I've got about 45 seconds. We know coordination between state, local, and federal land managers and fire responders is an ongoing workload. Can you tell us more about how this coordination occurs before, during, and after a fire, and are there specific barriers that hinder the cooperation?
▶ 0:24:26Yes, thank you for the question. Inter agency coordination is key, especially in the state of Utah. um state, local, and federal partners work together um in a seamless space of how to respond to wildfires and how to do forest management. There are things that can hinder that at times um based on resource capacity, based on jurisdictional boundaries, but in Utah, we're pretty good at responding to fires and working in a seamless capacity. I like to tell people that wildfire is one thing that we can't do alone.
▶ 0:24:56It takes all of us to do it. So bringing in that inter agency coordination from a local level and to a state level and also a federal level is something that's very important and it's something that we have to continue to do.
▶ 0:25:08Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:25:11Thank you, Mr. Moore. Good luck in uh Markup. Um all right, now we'll go back to the regular regularly scheduled programming here. So again, panelists, thank you for joining us. Uh uh you know the rules. Each of you have five minutes and so just watch the watch the timer and watch the colors on the stoplight and you'll know what to do. So let me first introduce uh Miss Jamie Barnes, the Utah State Forester in the Division of Forestry, Fire and State Lands of the Utah Department of Natural Resources. So take it away.
▶ 0:25:41Five minutes. Thank you, Chairman Ma Lamafia and ranking member Selenus and members of the subcommittee for holding this hearing today and for the opportunity to testify before you on behalf of the National Association of State Foresters. My name is Jamie Barnes. I am the state forester and director of the division of forestry, fire, and state lands in Utah. In my role, I am responsible for overseeing forest health and responding to wildfires and managing sovereign lands in Utah.
▶ 0:26:09Established in 1920, the National Association of State Foresters is composed of the directors of forestry agencies in 50 states, DC, and all the US territories nations in compacts of free association. State foresters have been tasked with implementing national forest policy priorities for over a century, providing technical assistance to land owners and managing 76 million acres of stateowned forested land that supply critical timber.
▶ 0:26:36State foresters also work cooperatively to improve the resilience and productivity of federal lands. State foresters work to advance resilient landscapes and provide effective wildfire response across 1.5 billion acres. NASF, the only non-federal entity on the national multi- agency coordinating group, is a critical part of the national inter agency fire coordination that provides response on federal lands and manages the nation's largest, most complex fires.
▶ 0:27:07State forestry agencies and local departments respond to 80% of the fires nationwide. Under the first Trump administration, state foresters formalized their commitments to greater partnerships through shared stewardship with the Forest Service and other agencies. Utah is on our second shared stewardship agreement, the first being signed in 2019 and the second in 2022.
▶ 0:27:30Utah has had great success bringing partners together and stakeholders together to focus on the right work in the right place at the right scale. A total of $30 million has been invested in active forest management actions, which include work in critical watersheds that are high risk for wildfires. With President Trump's recent executive orders, there has been a renewed emphasis on the role of states in assisting with pressing challenges facing our forests.
▶ 0:27:57Utah has taken a proactive approach with the Forest Service, engaging in conversations around a shared stewardship agreement or other supported model where we partner together in land management. Utah values the partnerships we have built in the state and we support carrying out critical management objectives together to meet increased acreage targets, production goals, the ability to better serve our industry partners and reduce wildfire risk in our rural community communities, revitalizing these communities for our future generations.
▶ 0:28:28Good neighbor authority has been a critical tool for states to increase the pace and scale of cooperative federal land management while providing economic opportunities for rural communities. Through GNA, Western states have completed over 66,000 acres of fuels and forest health projects, 291 timber cells across 98,000 acres of federal land and generating over 840 million of board feet of timber.
▶ 0:28:56However, the ability for GNA to meet current national needs is dependent on four levers. Sustaining the forest state and private forestry programs, integrating state federal project planning, dedicated and predictable funding for the GNA projects, and state discretion and operational autonomy under GNA. State staff with GNA responsibilities are frequently supported by a broad range of federal funding.
▶ 0:29:21On average, state forestry agencies would lose 20% of their workforce capacity if Forest Service private and private and state forestry programs were defunded. In addition, predictable and increased funding for GNA projects cannot be understated because not all states have forest service lands that have robust timber markets or marketable timber. Forested lands in Utah are one of the state's most valuable natural resources.
▶ 0:29:48They provide scenic beauty, wildlife habitat, clean air, and supply timber products. Most of the forested lands in each of the state are held by private land owners or by the forest service. In Utah, the division's six area offices employs a forester who works with land owners to provide assistance to those wishing to utilize or improve their forested lands. This is made possible through congressional authorities and funding.
▶ 0:30:14It plays an important role in the work we do in Utah and creates direct results on the ground that are crossboundary benefiting communities and future generations to come. NASF is grateful for the community's work this last year on the farm bill to capture state foresters priorities, sustain the active management of for private forested lands, including authorizing assistant for the state action plan, strengthening our national reforestation capacity by codifying the ringer.
▶ 0:30:42And NASF looks forward to working with the committee to address additional amendments to the conservation reserve program and the volunteer fire assistance program. Thank you again for this opportunity. Uh, perfect. Thank you, Mrs. Barnes. Appreciate your testimony. Uh, now we'll recognize our next witness, Mr. Scott Dayne from the American Loggers Council. He's their executive director. Go ahead,
▶ 0:31:06Chairman Lalfa, Ranking Member Selenus, and committee members. On behalf of the American Loggers Council, I want to thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding promoting forest health and resiliency through improved active management. I am the executive director of the American Loggers Council which represents members in 49 states.
▶ 0:31:26I'd like to begin by addressing civil culture, forest management, which is the science of controlling the establishment, growth, composition, and health of forests and woodlands, and social societal objectives such as producing timber, maintaining wildlife habitat, improving forest health, recreation, and protecting watersheds on a sustainable basis.
▶ 0:31:51This is accomplished by a range of practices including planting, thinning, and harvesting to guide the development of forest stands for desired outcomes. These sustainable forest management activities are not being fully utilized on national forest, particularly as they apply to timber harvesting. Over the past few decades, the volume of timber harvest on national forests has declined by over 75%.
▶ 0:32:21Additionally, civil cultural stands establish tree standards establish tree stand densities, trees per acre that is optimal for achieving healthy forest objectives. According to top forest researchers, low density stands that largely eliminate tree competition are key to creating forest resilient forest resilience to the multiple stressors of severe wildfire, drought, bark beetles, and climate change.
▶ 0:32:50They conclude that managing for resilience requires drastically reducing densities as much as 80% of trees in some cases. Tree mortality for the first time according to US Forest Service reports exceeds tree growth by two times. Let me repeat that twice as many trees are dying in the national forests than are growing. Much of this mortality is driven by wildfire. It's not timber harvesting.
▶ 0:33:20Timber harvesting only represents 25% of the net tree growth and seven times more trees are dying than are being harvested. Logging isn't the problem. In fact, it's a solution. These statistics clearly indicate that national forest management policy for the past three decades has not worked. The health of our national forests are in decline. This brings me to wildfire. Millions of acres of forest burn annually. Fire science is basic.
▶ 0:33:49Three components are necessary for fire. An ignition source, quite often lightning strikes, oxygen, and fuel. The only one that we can control is fuel. And in the case of wildfires, unhealthy forests that are overstocked and filled with dying and dead timber.
▶ 0:34:04In an effort to begin reducing hazardous fuels from national forest lands, the American Loggers Council in partnership with the US Forest Service developed the biomass transportation incentive pilot project which removed 120,000 green tons of hazardous fuels, primarily biomass, and utilized it as feed stock for biomass power generation.
▶ 0:34:25This successful demonstration evolved into the USDA US Forest Service hazardous fuels transportation assistance program that continues to remove hazardous fuels from the national forest landscape. The public this public and private partnership is one of the many opportunities available to collaboratively mitigate wildfire threats and severity by reducing fuel loads and addressing the backlog of landscape treatment.
▶ 0:34:51The US Forest Service has developed a wildfire crisis strategy to begin addressing 50 million acres of high-risisk forest fireheds. The primary component of the wildfire crisis strategy is fuel timber reduction. This administration recognizes these facts and has issued numerous executive orders, initiated trade investigations, issued policy directives, and taken other actions to improve forest management and support the timber and forest products industries.
▶ 0:35:20These directives need to be codified to ensure their long-term implementation. The this crisis is a problem decades in the making and will require decades to correct. The most comprehensive legislation to codify this and other forest management reforms is the fix our forest act. Passing this legislation will ensure the forest rem management and wildfire mitigation regulations, policies and procedures survive political cycles.
▶ 0:35:46With the new Congress, the administ and administration, the American Loggers Council prepared a roadmap to recovery that identified the top seven priority issues and actionable congressional administrative responses. I've included a copy with my testimony to be included in the congressional record. With over 150 mills closed across the United States in the past 36 months, markets are seriously compromised. To promote forest health and resiliency through improved active management, markets are necessary.
▶ 0:36:16No markets, no management. We are at a crossroads. Congress and the administration must take action to improve forest health through active management before the logging and mill infrastructure deteriorates to a point that forest management will no longer be possible. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:36:35Thank you, Mr. Dne. I appreciate your testimony. We'll now go to our next witness, Carrie Monahan, who's the director of natural resources at the Morttown Ranchery of Maidu Indians in Northern California. You have five
▶ 0:36:50Thank you, Chairman Thompson, Chairman Lamalfa, Ranking Member Selenus, and other other subcommittee members for the opportunity to speak here today. As you recognized in your remarks, we face a nationwide forest health crisis. And in the west, fires are the number one public safety, forest health, and environmental concern. Healthy forests are critical to the environment and to the economy, to rural communities, and to tribes.
▶ 0:37:17Tribal governments like Morttown Rancheria, a federally recognized tribe in Northern California, can be a force multiplier to address this crisis. And we are already doing so through an innovative model using the service first authority. Comm committee members likely recall the campfire which destroyed the town of Paradise and took 85 lives in 2018.
▶ 0:37:40But since that time, we've also faced the 320,000 acre North Complex fire, the millionacre Dixie fire, and just last year, the Park Fire. Our community is ground zero of the national forest health crisis. And while we have cultural and economic purposes for our forest management efforts, it's also a matter of necessity.
▶ 0:38:00I'm here today to tell you about the service first model which can be used to rapidly address forest management needs across the nation without requiring new legislation or regulatory changes. At the same time, using service first with tribes can support tribal economic development and bring to bear the skills and knowledge of those who have managed our forest for thousands of years.
▶ 0:38:22Under the service first model, the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Forest Service enter into an inter agency agreement, including Morttown, as an implementing partner. Forest Service funds are transferred to the interior, then to a trust account held on the trib's behalf, and as work is completed, the tribe is reimbursed for expenses incurred.
▶ 0:38:43It's important to note that Morttown does not just work on our reservation and does not just work on the Aboriginal territories of the tribe, but that we provide forest management anywhere it's needed. For example, when Congress appropriated wildfire crisis funding, that funding was directed to national forests designated as wildfire crisis landscapes.
▶ 0:39:03A number of national forests in California and Nevada initiated inter agency agreements with the Bureau of Indian Affairs and Morttown to fund fuels reduction and ecosystem enhancement projects. This included removing hazard trees, creating fuel brakes in the wildland urban interface and road repair to restore access. Our crews are working as I speak on fuels reduction projects under those agreements using both hand crews and a fleet of large equipment like masticators and log processors.
▶ 0:39:33However, we have experienced some challenges in working with the Forest Service under this model. We found that Forest Service personnel can be hesitant to use new tools like the service first model unless they already have done so previously.
▶ 0:39:48We found that capacity challenges in some of the districts have actually precluded them from approving projects supported by outside grant Even when funding is available, environmental review complete, and we have an existing inter agency agreement, we rely on Forest Service personnel to prepare scopes of work. We found that remaining staff often have not been trained to develop these key planning materials, and we've seen an exodus of older, experienced personnel.
▶ 0:40:18To address many of these challenges, we've hired retired Forest Service who can write the scopes of work and that are from the districts we work in, know what work is ready to proceed, and can coordinate with remaining Forest Service staff to help them use existing agreements and create new ones.
▶ 0:40:38In addition, we've had preliminary discussions with Forest Service leadership about developing training to ensure personnels are familiar with the service first model and know its We are fighting a war on catastrophic wildfire and we are trying to get ahead of it with basic forestry pract practices while recovering from decades of forest mismanagement in an era where the forest service is reeling for major personnel reductions.
▶ 0:41:10In summary, Moretown Forestry has demonstrated that tribes using inter agency agreements with the BIA and Forest Service is the most efficient means of deploying forest management funding, and it's working. Looking forward, we hope that the committee will support more widespread adoption of the service first model, help us secure training for Forest Service personnel, and when appropriate and when appropriating forest management and wildfire crisis funding, recognize that service
▶ 0:41:40first is the most efficient means of getting projects underway. Finally, I'd like to close by thanking chair chairman Lamalfa for his long-term support of the tribe and our forestry program and chairman to Thompson and chairman Chairman Lamalfa for visiting us in Northern California to view the impacts of wildfire firsthand and for inviting the tribe here today.
▶ 0:42:06Uh thank thanks again, Miss Mon. Um appreciate your testimony. We'll listen to our final witness, Dr. Thomas Duca from the dean of the college of forestry at Oregon State University. You have five minutes. Thank you.
▶ 0:42:18Chairman Lamalfa, ranking member Selenus and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Tom Duca. I serve as the dean of the college of forestry at Oregon State University. Decades of timber harvest and fire suppression on federal forest lands followed by a precipitous decline in active management in the 1980s.
▶ 0:42:41starting in the 80s resulted in a large portion of federal forests being dangerously overstocked, vulnerable to insects and disease, and at high risk of high severity wildfires. I applaud meaningful actions that can accelerate and increase scienceinformed forest management to improve forest health and resilience. The current administration has prioritized action on federal forest lands.
▶ 0:43:08There are however key challenges that put the potential for success at risk. I encourage this committee to consider the following. Can federal forest uh can federal government effectively achieve the desired management outcomes while reducing federal workforce and research capacity.
▶ 0:43:29Second, given that we are far behind in addressing the federal forest condition, it's imperative that we focus precisely on where work needs to be done. For the greatest potential for success, I offer three points for your consideration. First, federal reductions in force and restructuring proposals undermine our collective ability to ramp up localized active management.
▶ 0:43:56Secretary Rollins issued a memorandum on July 24th to propose reorganization plans for the US Forest Service to centralize personnel and resources in regional hubs. While this may offer administrative efficiencies, this action risks undermining the foundation of effective natural resource management by losing local knowledge and partnerships, trust, and ecological specificity.
▶ 0:44:24that's critical to effective natural resource Workforce reductions initiated earlier this year are already constraining federal capacity. The AY's research and development arm has dropped by about 25% or nearly 400 permanent employees since 2024.
▶ 0:44:45Over the same period, the Pacific Northwest research station colllocated on OSU's Corvalis campus has declined staff has declined by 60 positions or These rapid reductions act to destabilize the agency being tasked with advancing enhanced management on our for national forests.
▶ 0:45:10Second, US Forest Service research enterprise reductions hinder management practices to support forest health and productivity. Our forests face ever evolving threats such as increasingly hot dry conditions, novel insects and pathogens and exotic plants. Science must be done to that to evolve with these novel threats.
▶ 0:45:35The US Forest Service plays a critical role in advancing and translating science for active management to address these complex challenges. Equally important is the role of the US Forest Service Experimental Forest Network. Long-term ecological data collection at sites such as the HJ Andrews experimental forest in Oregon have provided irreplaceable insights into how forests function for more than 75 years.
▶ 0:46:06No other government agency or industry outside of the US Forest Service is positioned to replace those losses in scientific work currently advanced by the agency. Third and final, rescending the roadless rule distracts from the priority management activities that improve forest health and resilience. The roadless rule restricts new road construction on approximately 58 of the 193 million acres of national forest lands.
▶ 0:46:37Most of the acres in roadless areas are steep, remote, and costly to access for timber harvest. Historically, roads were built where it was most economically viable and to harvest and haul timber. This rem remains true today and the distance from unroaded lands to active mills is even further today due to the large number of mill closures over the last 30 years.
▶ 0:47:05Rescending the rule roadless rule won't mitigate wildfire risk. What uh is based on three factors. the likelihood that a wildfire will happen in a given place, the potential severity of a fire when it occurs, and the values at risk. The highest priority for reducing wildfire risk is in the world wland urban interface where people, property, and infrastructure exposed.
▶ 0:47:32In conclusion, after decades of intensive use followed by prolonged inaction, our fa forests face unprecedented stress from wildfire, insects, and disease and drought. We must implement proactive management at a meaningful scale informed by robust science and supported by a prepared workforce and regional infrastructure. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
▶ 0:47:57Thank you, Dr. Duca. We will now go to member questions and I'll recognize first ranking member Selenus.
▶ 0:48:04Thank you chairman Lamalfa. So let's just dive right in. Um Dr. Duca, your testimony gave us some valuable insight and overview of the importance and impacts of partnerships between universities like Oregon State and the Forest Service in advancing research and skilled workforce development. Can you share and dive in a little deeper on some examples of research and or projects of the college of forestry um that you might be working on with the forest service right now and how do these projects help inform federal land
▶ 0:48:33Yes, we work directly with the forest service on innumerable projects. Uh some that are particularly of uh relevance to this committee would be uh on the water wildfire water security project which uh deals with looking at the um uh effect of wildfire on municipal drinking water quality and availability.
▶ 0:48:57And uh that that work was a joint project between US Forest Service and several universities including uh Oregon State University. uh that project was actually uh rescended just recently but it is an example of uh the type of work we're doing together. We also have the extensive work uh on the HG Andrews experimental forest.
▶ 0:49:21It's the longest standing long-term ecological research uh uh site in the nation and it's a collaboration between US forest service and Oregon State University. Uh and in that site it has burned three times in the last uh four years. We've had fires on that site three times in the last four years which opens up uh incredible opportunities for studying wildfire recovery and restoration.
▶ 0:49:52And those are projects that are being initiated on the forest today. I'd go on but I want to be rec uh uh recognize time limitations.
▶ 0:50:02Thank you. And I would imagine that the information and the research that you um are gathering actually helps inform policies then on the ground and for for for the federal government to figure out which direction to take and be most efficient and less wasteful.
▶ 0:50:19Yes. Abs. Absolutely. I I think research is exceptionally important in having uh scienceinformed policy. Policy that has uh incorporates uh unbiased uh information that is built out of not just individual studies but a corpus of data that's collected over tens of years.
▶ 0:50:42and uh without and especially in a field such as forestry that long-term science is uh exceptionally important and uh and that's where uh programs such as the experimental forest network within the US forest service is so important because it provides that continual uh data collection over the life cycle of forests and and rotations.
▶ 0:51:09Thank you. The Trump administration has cited improving fire prevention efforts as a justification for rescending the 2001 roadless rule, claiming that the decision will reduce the risk of wildfire. I mentioned this in my opening statement. But research also also shows that human activity is the leading cause of fire. In fact, according to the forest services own data, humans cause upwards of 85% of wildfire fires. Further, a study from the wilderness society found that fire ignition density rates are highest within 50 meters of roads.
▶ 0:51:38So again to Dr. Duca um what does the scientific literature say about roadless area and fire risk and do you see recision of the roadless rule as a meaningful step toward improving our fire um preparedness and response?
▶ 0:51:51Yeah. Yes. We we we know that uh in areas where humans are present, we have more fire ignitions. Uh we also of course have lightning fire ignitions or natural ignitions, but humans greatly increase the number of ignitions that occur on the landscape. So once you build roads into areas, you increase access and you increase the potential ignitions.
▶ 0:52:15The uh whether those fires erupt into full-scale fires determine wildfires is uh dependent on whether there are uh conditions that are conduc conducive to that fire erupting.
▶ 0:52:30Uh however, the um uh the roadless area uh and the uh existing designated wilderness areas are areas that were not managed heavily in the past because of the lack of roing and have the lower densities, stand densities than those areas that were managed and then not managed. Those areas you open the stand up and you have higher density.
▶ 0:52:58And so uh following especially with the combination of uh that management no management combined with uh active fire suppression uh increases the severity of fires that occur in that area and of course those areas are closer to where communities exist and so that's where the effort to reduce fuels should be prioritized at this stage.
▶ 0:53:26Thank you. My time has expired. I yield
▶ 0:53:29Uh, thank you, Ranking Member Selenus. I'll now recognize our chairman of the full committee, Mr. Thompson from
▶ 0:53:36Chairman, thank you so much. Thanks again for the witnesses for being here. U and many forests, including my national forest, the Alagane National Forest, which I represent. We have a significant challenges with invasive species. Mrs. Mrs. Barnes, can you speak to the role that state forestry agencies play with combating invasives that uh undermine um these invasives that undermine forest health?
▶ 0:54:01Yes. So, invasive species is something we take very seriously and trying to combat those and eradicate those on the landscape is something that should be done. These can add fuel to the fire and growth to fires and actually lead to catastrophic wildfires in the communities. So working to um control those to eradicate those. We work with those in our fuels program.
▶ 0:54:20We work to provide projects that can help to reduce those and restore native vegetation in the landscape which is an very very important component to reducing the risk of catastrophic wildfire.
▶ 0:54:33Yeah. And I really appreciate the role the partnership between USDA and our our state agencies that uh that that teamwork really does make a difference. Uh uh for us in Pennsylvania, our we don't have massive wildfires, but we have we have small ones pretty easily managed, but it's the invasives that do the damage in in u in the Alagany National Forest. Uh Mr.
▶ 0:54:58Barnes, in your testimony, you mentioned support for the so-called Cottonwood fix, which was included in the Farm, Food, and National Security Act of 2024. And due to the Cottonwood decision in 2015, the Forest Service is required to reinitiate consultation with the Fish and Wildlife Service on completed forest plans when a new species is listed under the Endangered Species Act or new information is brought forward.
▶ 0:55:24Forest Service chiefs both under Republican and Democrat administrations have said that further consultation isn't necessary as it would require more than 100 forest plans to be revised costing taxpayer dollars and agency staff time but with no real benefits. A partial fix was provided by Congress in 2018 but expired in 2023. Do you have any further comment on the Cottonwood on Cottonwood and why we need to fix it once and for all?
▶ 0:55:52Yeah, I would just say that this is an important thing to look at. Um I think fixing this would be helpful. Um also looking at the action forest action plans and how they address that. This is an avenue that is a strategic plan for the forest. But paying special attention on how we can streamline matters, how we can make permanent fixes for something is something that we're always looking for and ways to get things done in a more streamlined and better process.
▶ 0:56:16Very good. And and just one final question, we uh the 2014 I had the privilege of chairing the uh uh the forestry subcommittee um that included some other jurisdictions and then and then the bill in 2018 uh all provided some categorical exemptions, some tools to the US forest service. Just open this up to the whole panel.
▶ 0:56:39Is there anything that comes to mind of of new tools uh that that we need to equip the US Forest Service with so they can do their job of managing the forest in a healthy way? And I measure health uh environmentally by the health of the forest uh through active management, tempering, replanting uh to the environment um and quite frankly to the economies for the uh you know for the uh municipalities.
▶ 0:57:06We're struggling right now to get Secure Rural Schools reauthorized, which is a crime. I mean, I understand out west there are schools that have closed uh because the Secure Rural Schools has expired and as hard as this committee has worked, uh we've had a difficult time um you know, getting the rest of Congress to reauthorize that. And so, are there any tolls that you come to mind that you think that we certainly should consider uh within the remaining portion of the Farm Bill uh Farm Bill 2.0?
▶ 0:57:39I'd be happy to respond to that, Chairman Thompson.
▶ 0:57:42Please. And thank you for the visit. That was great. Hosting uh uh our great chairman and and I we had a a great visit to your uh your headquarters here. Very impressive.
▶ 0:57:52We're very honored to have you come visit us. Um my testimony today is speaking about a process, an agreement type that's already in place that would allow much of what you're talking about to continue to go forward. And this the the challenge that we have with that agreement type is that our forest service partners aren't familiar enough to feel comfortable using it when it's new to them. So one of the um uh opportunities we have is to work with them on training uh so that they can use a service first agreement.
▶ 0:58:22Um the the service first would not necessarily allow harvest. It's basic forestry practices, right, to allow for fuels reduction, prescribed fire, um, and but we'd need other tools to do more sustainable harvesting. Uh, and that could be the good neighbor agreement. And again, that's new to them, this new version of it. And that's what takes
▶ 0:58:43Yeah. And my time is expired, but I would encourage of our witnesses if you anything you can put in writing and and forward uh to our chairman and ranking member of the subcommittee. uh we are u it is time to get 2.0 done and I want to make sure just like in 14 and 18 we have a robust forestry title uh and uh and uh what will be the farm food and national security act of 2025 so thanks so much I
▶ 0:59:11appreciate that good work Mr. chairman and doesn't always meet the eye for people that a lot of great forestry work is getting done in our farm bills. So, thank you sir. Uh now recognize my colleague from California, Mr. Costa.
▶ 0:59:25Thank you very much uh Mr. Chairman of the subcommittee and the chairman of the full committee for holding this hearing. The purpose of course is promoting forest health and resiliency through improved active management. Uh frankly, I think that we need to examine the whole um effort that is going forth between uh the United States Department of Agriculture and the Forest Service, US Forest Service Agency in terms of um this uh change that uh of rearranging
▶ 0:59:55priorities and the management uh for the Forest Service. Uh, frankly, I am puzzled and I think I've suggested to the chairman that we need to have greater oversight in this reorganization act because I don't think it's clear how ultimately what the goals are going to be and how it's going to impact the mission in this case of the US Forest Service.
▶ 1:00:16Um, you know, I've been here for 21 years and I think through uh administrations of both parties, uh, there has been a lack of focus and emphasis on the two areas that we're talking about here today. forest management and the efforts to provide support for fire suppression.
▶ 1:00:34And what we've done is we've had a a series of circumstances in which we uh appropriate money for forest management uh but the fire season as the chairman noted in his opening statement is no longer a season but it's year round throughout the west and we run out of money to deal with the fire suppression. We borrowed that money from forest management and we don't do a very good job in either in my view.
▶ 1:01:02Um let me to the point talk about an effort that took place by a number of us a few years ago to provide a 10-year wildlife crisis strategy which invested $1.4 billion to deal with forest management. And Dr. Manahan, I didn't get a chance to see you last night, but I'm glad you're here because I'd like you to comment on this. uh it deals with 10 high-risisk landscapes in eight western states.
▶ 1:01:28Uh it was a tragedy that what occurred in uh chairman Lafa's district in paradise as we all noted. Uh we had the creek fire in my area some few years ago that lasted two and a half months and burned over 400,000 acres of forest service. Right now as I speak we have the Garnett fire. In two weeks, it has consumed over 60,000 acres and it's 15% contained.
▶ 1:01:54I am wondering exactly what we're doing and and the and the forest service, the USDA has removed from their website this effort on the inflation reduction act on $1.4 billion to manage these 10 high-risk areas. I don't understand why they are doing that. why we are depleting resources from the Forest Service that needs it now uh at this critical time with with climate change and other factors that we're dealing with. Dr.
▶ 1:02:23Monahan, would you please comment on where we're putting our resources and the reduction of people that need to be there who have the expertise and the experience to combat the challenges with this fire season?
▶ 1:02:38Thank you. I think you put your finger right on it, Congressman Costa. We've separated fire from forestry. Fire is an important part of forestry and can actually be good fire to uh help manage our our forest and keep it so that catastrophic wildfire doesn't destroy because we've literally separated those funding streams from at the very very top. We currently have a forest management uh system that responds to catastrophic fire.
▶ 1:03:07And it makes no sense. I mean, it's it's it's inconsistent.
▶ 1:03:11Correct. Long. We need long-term sustainable funding for ongoing forest management that really has nothing to do with harvesting huge amounts of trees. These forests require constant work and maintenance and prescribed fire needs to be a part of that, right? As does other types of fuels reduction so we can get to it.
▶ 1:03:31Absolutely. We've lost over 20% of the giant sequoia trees in since 2015. And right now, the Scarnet fire is threatening another uh Sequoia Grove. Uh and and we need I I wrote a letter yesterday. Most many of my California colleagues supported it to the Secretary of Agriculture to put a potential focus. Right now, they're using Chinook helicopters for nightflying, which is good.
▶ 1:03:58Uh but we need to provide other resources so that we don't have a repeat of what occurred during the Creek Fire uh some three years ago.
▶ 1:04:07I agree completely with you. I'm I'm very very sad to see what's happening to the Sequoas right now and and really this is about getting ahead of the next catastrophic wildfire already.
▶ 1:04:17Yeah, my time's expiring here, Mr. Chairman, but I think Mr. Dane talked about the the closure of 130 um um efforts to provide logging resource and there's a lot of complexity that's involved in our supply chain that I think we need to really examine when we look at supply of of of wood materials from not only Canada but from Brazil and how we keep our supply chain focused and where that makes sense for all the multiple uses
▶ 1:04:47that we use for for wood products. And I I know that we don't have time here, but uh there's a lot of facets to this important subcommittee hearing. I commend you for doing that. I would like to say one other thing. I'd like to invite the US Department of Agriculture and the representative from the Forest Service to testify before the committee as to what this reorganization means and what their endgame is.
▶ 1:05:14Uh thank you, Mr. Casa. That's certainly our intention is in further hearings to have them in and uh get a get a handle on where we are right now. That's it's this committee wants to be more active on on that work. So, thank you.
▶ 1:05:27And um um to your other point too uh we need to have um uh longer term commitments from Forest Service supplies so that we can have have the milling capacity have the confidence they're going to be able to have a return on investment should they invest in more milling capacity and be huge. So and lastly u you mentioned some of the tragedy in our district. I'm sorry you got a big fire going in yours. This is uh actually was presented with two gavvels.
▶ 1:05:55one for the car fire in Northern California and one for the campfire. This is not an oversized gavvel. I've just shrunk a little bit. with that, uh,
▶ 1:06:07the tragedy of our fires in the state in the west is something that I think we all share
▶ 1:06:12big time, sir. Yes. And our colleague in Oregon as well will deal with that. So, um, let me recognize Mr. Baird uh for his opportunity. Five minutes. Thank
▶ 1:06:23Thank you, Mr. chairman and thank you ranking ranking member for holding this session and then I always appreciate the witnesses making the effort to be here to give us your insight into whatever industry we're talking about and you know I got a brother that's involved in the in the forestry business or in the industry uh and in Indiana we have a lot of hardwoods both red and white oak uh cherry walnut and and since we're talking about forestry management the
▶ 1:06:53Last thing I knew out of Indiana that the through forest management uh we end up having more growth than we do in the harvest. And so the the the timber is continuing to grow uh more than we're harvesting.
▶ 1:07:09And the other thing that I think we need to keep and this is just a comment but but you know timber plus uh the wood industry uh plus uh the furniture business really provides us a long-term carbon sequestration carbon storage. So I think we ought to give the forest industry u credit for doing that. But I better get back on course here. Mr. Chairman um so Mr.
▶ 1:07:36Scott, uh, you laid out the serious decline in forest health and the urgent need to reduce hazardous fuels through active management as Congress works to pass a farm bill this year. Uh, what provisions do you believe are the most critical to include now so we don't lose more time in tackling the wildfire crisis and supporting the logging industry? And I know you've probably addressed um addressed that in some of your other comments, but uh give you an opportunity to review that.
▶ 1:08:05Mr. Chairman, Congressman, thank you very much. When it comes to reducing hazardous fuels, the the obstacle there is what do you do with the low value, no value um hazardous fuels, small diameter, unmerchable timber? And we're really limited on what we can do because of the lack of infrastructure to utilize that.
▶ 1:08:29And we find that the only viable markets right now for that are biomass power generation. And they have been cut out of the uh tax credits that they've been a part of for many many years. And so that jeopardizes those those existing markets. Now, if we can develop new markets um such as um sustainable aviation fuel from forestbased feed stock um to utilize that, that's great. But we're not there yet.
▶ 1:08:59So, we need to support the biomass uh power sector um as the only viable option for utilization of hazardous fuels in many cases. As an example, when the uh inflation reduction act passed and there was money for hazardous fuel reduction in there, I spoke to the White House.
▶ 1:09:17And I said, "That's terrific, but what are you going to do with the biomass once we once we collect it?" And they said, "What do you mean?" I said, "We have such a limited infrastructure to utilize that um that we don't really have the ability to transport it 100 miles or more um under the current cost structure." So they said, "What are you going to do with it?" I said, "We're going to push it up in a pile and we're going to light it on fire and open So that's an example of why we need to have the markets
▶ 1:09:47to support the utilization of hazardous fuels.
▶ 1:09:51You know, I can't resist asking when you talk about the the biomass. I can't resist asking this question about biochar. You know, if there's any comments you care to make on that in that regard.
▶ 1:10:04Yes, there's quite a few developments um in the biochar uh sector. In fact, uh I was meeting this week with a couple of representatives that have biomass power plants and they are going to site biochar pro um facilities on their biomass um power plant sites as well. So it's a it's a it's a new product but it has a lot of potential and forest based feed stock would be the uh the primary feed stock for developing biochar.
▶ 1:10:35Thank you. Uh and we got about one minute left for me. So any of the other three of you have any thoughts in that
▶ 1:10:43Well, just really briefly following up on the biochar issue. One of the key things that has to happen for biochar to be successful as a product is to demonstrate its value. It it isn't like applying a fertilizer. It doesn't yield a direct yield response that you know what you're going to get out of it in a given year. And so there's studies that need to be conducted to demonstrate its long-term value as a soil amendment because right now there just isn't a market for biochar.
▶ 1:11:13So the break even hall distances to get the stuff to a place where you can convert it uh as an energy source is is a problem. And but if we can have that uh value ad of biochar uh it would make a big
▶ 1:11:28But it's almost pure carbon and so it would really contribute to soil health.
▶ 1:11:32Yes. Yep.
▶ 1:11:35Do I have an opportunity to ask one more question or
▶ 1:11:38go fast and we'll let you
▶ 1:11:40real fast? Anyone else?
▶ 1:11:43I'd love to chime in about the biochar conversation in um in our wersheds. We experienced the California gold rush 150 years ago and we have uh mine impacted acres from hydraulic mining. This is denuted areas with no top soil. These areas are excellent for biochar amendments.
▶ 1:12:02And we have done some both lab tests and field studies with Pacific Southwest Research Station partners to look at biochar and its benefits of putting that carbon sequestration benefits included on that hydraulic mine impacted landscape. And we'd really like to continue to pursue that.
▶ 1:12:19In fact, I mentioned that um Forest Service sometimes are so limited in their capacity that even though we brought funded grants to them to continue this work, they had a hard time accepting and going forward with it because they were at max.
▶ 1:12:33We better end there and I thank you and appreciate your responses and I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:12:38Right. Thank you, Mr. May. And Mahan, I was just noting you said 150. Actually, yesterday was California's 175th birthday. So, happy birthday, home state. Yeah, time time flies, doesn't it? It's also my mother-in-law's birthday that that day. I won't say what that number is. So So anyway, Mr. Riley from New York.
▶ 1:13:00Thanks. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I was I was just about to jump in and bail you out, but you saved yourself there with um you know, uh where I'm from in upstate New York, uh we we know a thing or two about uh bad trade deals. uh lost a lot of jobs over the last generation because of them. And I think that what we're seeing right now with our current situation uh with the logging industry is really uh really bad. Uh Mr. Dne, in your testimony, you talked a bit about this.
▶ 1:13:29I saw you submitted this uh the roadmap to recovery. Uh and in it, you identified a bunch of uh top priorities for your council, and one of those was uh fixing our uh trade system. It's also a top priority for my uh constituents. Um I have one for just as one example. I have a a constituent in Green County uh whose family business employs dozens of our neighbors.
▶ 1:13:54Um uh they've become a real real leader in uh sustainability in the community. um and their business is mostly domestic, but historically they've depended on uh access to foreign markets uh to stay afloat. And and speaking of of staying afloat, she's literally had logs floating in the ocean since March uh when China retaliated against uh Trump's tariffs regime.
▶ 1:14:22and she's lost access to these markets which is inflicting a ton of damage on her small family business. And you meet these folks, they are they are people who are working their tails off. Uh they're doing everything that's been asked of them and all of a sudden they've got the rug ripped out from underneath them.
▶ 1:14:46And uh it's just simply not fair to put that family and that family business in that situation. And so uh my office, we've been pressing uh USDA and USR to make this right for that uh small family business and their dozens of employees. But I I'm pretty frustrated because I don't think anybody is treating this with the urgency uh that it demands. This is around this place in Washington. It's bureaucracy and red tape and nonsense. back home.
▶ 1:15:14These are real jobs for real people in a real community doing real work. Uh and it's really important. And your testimony said that there's 150 mills that have closed in just the last 36 months. And and that's just not an acceptable trajectory for us.
▶ 1:15:31And so my question for you is generally for for you know for my constituent uh any thoughts that you have for them, any thoughts that you have for us and for this committee um to make sure that folks in that situation aren't having so much damage inflicted on them because of the current trade situation that we're
▶ 1:15:49Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Congressman, I'm glad you brought that up. uh the the trade policy that we're talking about is extremely complex and there it's it's far more than the softwood lumber uh which gets all the attention. I've been in touch with your constituents up in New York and uh you know we have made it very clear that we support the softwood lumber uh tariffs and duties. Um however we do not support the impacts to hardwood uh exports.
▶ 1:16:18Uh the point being is these markets are limited in the United States. Most of the people up in up in your district um are are are sourcing or or marketing domestically about 50% of of their hardwood, but there's no other market left beyond that capacity. So the China market was extremely important.
▶ 1:16:41And until we get more domestic markets established in the United States, uh the American Loggers Council supports the export of u of hardwood uh logs to China and um we've made that clear to the administration and our discussions with them as well.
▶ 1:16:58Well, I I appreciate that very much and I I think what you described is as I understand it with my constituents business exactly the case. They have a significant and I think uh even a majority domestic market but um that market can't absorb everything and so uh they've depended on access to foreign markets. I think all of it uh goes to the point that a smart strategic targeted trade policy in this country needs to make sure that Americans are operating on a level playing field.
▶ 1:17:28Um and it it needs to be uh thoughtful instead of just throwing a bunch of stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks. and we're seeing um if we had a thoughtful strategic trade policy, this business would be thriving, would be continuing to thrive. Um and so I appreciate your uh the the nuance that you're thinking about this in. Um and Mr. Chairman, with that, I'll I'll yield
▶ 1:17:49All right. Thank you, Mr. Riley. I will recognize uh Mr. Weed from Wisconsin.
▶ 1:17:54Well, thank you, Chairman Lalfa and Ranking Member Selenus, for this hearing today. Wisconsin has a strong heritage with the forest products industry, employing over 57,000 people and contributing nearly 27 billion dollars to our state economy. The industry ranks second in economic output for our state. Wisconsin has been a leader in the lumber industry for nearly 200 years, and I'm proud that my home county, Brown County, is the leader for the state in terms of jobs and output.
▶ 1:18:23Without proper management of our forest, the rest of this incredibly important industry for Wisconsin's 8th district would cease to exist. As far as forest management, I am proud to represent the Manam Nation who are frequently recognized as managing one of the most sustainable forests in the world. I'm proud to serve on this subcommittee for this reason and have enjoyed being able to learn more about the state of American forestry and how we as Congress can do a better job.
▶ 1:18:50So, as I got to Congress, I immediately recognized the importance of Wisconsin's timber and paper industry and specifically maintaining and improving the safety and efficiency of it. Even though it's a transportation and infrastructure referred bill, I wanted to reference how proud I was to introduce the bipartisan safe routes act to promote exactly this by opening up more short distance routes for loggers. Mr. Dne, and I'll open this up to um anyone here.
▶ 1:19:18Um, what are some more creative ways we could promote safety and efficiency for
▶ 1:19:27Mr. Chairman, Congressman, it's nice to meet you. I've heard a lot about you from Henry Shenbeck, who was here yesterday with me doing some work.
▶ 1:19:34Uh, a couple of things to think about. You you referenced the Monomony tribe and they are known uh, nationally as one of the most uh, uh, productive forest programs in the country. And when I when I talked to them, they told me that their chief m with their forest land said you start at one end and you log across, you know, selectively. You you practice forest management till you get to the other end and then you turn around, you start over again.
▶ 1:20:03They they recognize sustainable forestry and practice that as well as other tribes, I'm sure, across the country. Now, when it comes to safer routes, I I really appreciate that. That's a an important issue. We have uh we have no consistency in the United States for efficient transportation. Uh we've got states that can run 99,000 pounds that can run 100,000 pounds year round. Uh different axle configurations and they're forcing these logging trucks to avoid the interstate.
▶ 1:20:31That's what we're talking about, the interstate here and use county and state roads. In Minnesota, we used to have to run down a cobblestone road in Duth, Minnesota parallel to an interstate system. Now, we did get the law changed and allowed us to go around duth Minnesota and use the interstate for a 23 mile corridor. That would be one step. Uh, another thing uh for the farm bill would be the future careers in logging. Workforce development is a critical issue.
▶ 1:20:57The timber industry is based on small multi-generational family businesses. These are not large corporations. These are family businesses and they just want to train their family members coming up just like farmers can do right now when their when their children are 16 and 17 years old to operate mechanized equipment. Logging is mechanized today. Um there is still hand filling but the majority of it's mechanized.
▶ 1:21:22We just want that same opportunity to uh treat to train the next generation coming up. um you know the uh secure our rural schools that was mentioned here uh for the first time uh it's not funded and it's going to be catastrophic.
▶ 1:21:39This was designed to replace funding that was lost by the reduction of of federal timber harvesting receipts uh to keep these communities that are forestry dependent whole and uh so secure our rural schools is important. Uh and then U Logger's economic assistance and relief act was recently introduced by Congressman Golden and um it's co-sponsored by Congressman Pete Stabber from Minnesota.
▶ 1:22:04Uh we need to have some safety nets in place for these uh industries uh when when markets are closing and stuff. Uh and then of course uh the biomass power uh under the renewable fuel standard and the tax credits would go a long way as well, sir.
▶ 1:22:19Great. Well, thank you. Anyone else? We have about 30 seconds.
▶ 1:22:23Mr. Mr. Chair, if I may, um, in Utah, I think partner, um, piggybacking off what he said, um, partnering with the colleges, um, for rural education in our communities is something we focused on big. Um, the forestry industry is somewhat depleted um, in our area. So, making sure that we can build that trade still in our rural communities is something that's very important. I would also say in Utah, we have a different type of timber market.
▶ 1:22:48So, not quite the same of what you're talking about, but also economic development is important um in our communities and also money from economic development, whether it's at the state or the local level or even the federal level, but to help these businesses get started up. And then also long-term timber um contracts that they can rely on in order to start producing and get credit and start up these businesses has been really important in Utah.
▶ 1:23:12Um Utah had lost two of our mills recently to fires and so trying to get those mills back online and getting them to be in a profitable manner has been really difficult with our market.
▶ 1:23:23Great. All right. Well, thank you for being here and with that I yield back.
▶ 1:23:28Thank you, Mr. Weed. Um for those uh members or staff that are monitoring our committee on TV, etc., we're getting down to the last couple questions here. So if they're on the sidelines or you know straddling other committees, I'd encourage them to come to our subcommittee if they wish. So anyway, I'll recognize myself for a little bit for uh questions of our panel. Again, thank you all for being here and um uh I'll start with Mr. Dne.
▶ 1:23:56Um you stated a bit earlier that uh uh the timber harvest in our forest system has declined by about 75%. Uh I think this is from about the mid 90s or so from a high of about 13 billion board feet to right around three billion board feet right now. So and even that number three billion is below what was actually authorized under current forest plans across the across the country.
▶ 1:24:26So uh talk to me about that inventory. What what does that mean as far as uh the number of board feet we're growing each year versus the number of board feet we're taking out?
▶ 1:24:39The um the harvest volume is is 25% of the growth volume um nationally on national forests. So that uh
▶ 1:24:51so juxtapose that with um o overcrowded trees and landscapes and things like that. So how how are we if we're going to be removing product at 25% of the growth, you know, one 3 to1 ratio, one to three, how is that going to be successful long term on thinning thinning forest and uh getting back to a balance of fire safety and not overdraft of the what's supply and might be, you know, we see when we have aid areas that uh go
▶ 1:25:21through drought, it it exacerbates it. So to touch touch on that more specifically, please. the uh USDA's announcement that they want to increase in the president's announcement they want to increase timber harvest by 25% that would take us from 3 million board feet to 4 million board feet roughly speak four billion board feet excuse me
▶ 1:25:45so in in one sense 25% sounds like a lot on the other hand if we're um if we're keeping up with you know just a mere fraction of what's growing out there then that hardly even touches the
▶ 1:26:01touches the issue level we should be is that is that do you agree with that I
▶ 1:26:05I agree with that and you're you're correct and and the the emphasis needs ability to be placed on the western states you know people look at Minnesota as an example where the federal tim federal forest represent 11% of the forested land and they only contribute 4% of the harvested volume now that's 11% 4% that's a small amount when you're out west you're looking at 50% plus of federal land out there and uh it's it's so it's much more dependent upon increasing the federal timber supply to support
▶ 1:26:35the uh the mills and increasing capacity of for domestic production. So it the the initial steps uh are not going to be sufficient to uh really address the hazard of uh of the density at this time. And uh where where's the US rank on uh lumber as far as other other countries?
▶ 1:27:02You know, uh I I'm afraid I don't have that answer. I know where the US ranks at the at the top.
▶ 1:27:08My my understanding it's up until China had their downturn economy, we were number two. Now we're number one importer of wood products.
▶ 1:27:15we are number one. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:27:16I don't know how that makes much sense, but uh
▶ 1:27:19um uh Dr. Mr. Monahan, again, thank you for being part and for your our interactions earlier on in NorCal. Appreciate that. Um, you noted some hesitancy of Forest Service personnel to use new tools and authorities unless that's been a long established pattern. So, um, we've, uh, there's been discussions with Forest Service on developing training to help familiarize staff with such authorities.
▶ 1:27:46So, can you talk a little more about what uh it takes to get personnel up to speed to be either aware of them or be comfortable or even aggressive on implementing them?
▶ 1:27:56Yeah, thank you uh Chairman Lamalfa. that the idea or the discussion we had with Chief Schultz um and his um office of tribal relations, Reed Robinson, was to try and provide training materials that came from the Forest Service for the Forest Service and that that would be the most effective way to have grants and agreements folks, for example, become familiar with how to utilize the service first authority with tribes that are coming towards them.
▶ 1:28:23We work mostly with people directly in the districts, right? the silver culturist, the forest engineer, sometimes the forest ranger, uh to be able to identify work that's needed. Those are different folks than the ones that are doing the grants and agreements. And that connection between the two is not something an external partner can necessarily be the best at at um making. And so by having those kinds of trainings, that's what we're hoping to be able to improve efficiencies for.
▶ 1:28:54Uh thank you. My five minutes is expiring but we're going to go to a second round. So I'll recognize my colleague Miss Selena is here for her second round.
▶ 1:29:02Thank you for the additional time. Chair Lamalfa. So the president's budget so I'm going to go back to you um Dr. Monahan. The president's budget proposal includes significant cuts to states tribal and private forestry programs. And as um we've been talking about, these programs provide technical and financial assistance to land owners and resource managers to help sustain the nation's forest and grasslands, protect communities from wildfire, and restore forest ecosystems.
▶ 1:29:28Can you dive in a little bit deeper and describe how Moretown Rancheria interacts with these programs and what their elimination would actually mean for you and your
▶ 1:29:39Thank you for the question, Ranking Member Selenus. It's um we're in a time of great change. We're at an inflection point and we're looking for the most efficient way to do the most basic forestry practices. Um and sustained funding for ongoing forest management is going to be a critical piece of that. Right now the funding that we have the most of the most types is um wildfire crisis funding.
▶ 1:30:07So it's after the horrible thing has taken place. It's that it's that crisis funding that comes down to the districts and it's a response to um the wildfire. I think that forests have been in need of ongoing sustained funding for a really long time and and that'll be ongoing.
▶ 1:30:26And would their elimination harm localities ability to implement responsible force management practices and what would the effect be for economic development for tribes?
▶ 1:30:36I every tribe does forestry a little bit differently. uh for our tribe it could be devastating to not have federal partners in order to do this work.
▶ 1:30:45Thank you. All right. So I am struggling with trying to figure out what the administration's plan is um around forest management. I'm hearing so many different things and so um Dr. Duca this question will go to you. you know, adding a a billion board feet of harvest on federal forests and then this competing idea that we're we're we're seeing increases in pest and disease and wildfire risk.
▶ 1:31:10And I'm not sure how you reconcile a a calculated board feed harvest with our our goals on ecosystems and reducing pest, disease, and wildfires. Can you help explain how we get to balance and some of the scientific research around that? It is comp.
▶ 1:31:31Thank you. Yes, it is complex and I I can try uh but uh the whole the whole problem here is complexity. I've been thinking about this as as uh my fellow panelists have been talking um you know the we have this significant problem. It is particularly bad in the west and in the dry forest types in particular. the value of the timber that exists in those landscapes having been managed and then not managed.
▶ 1:32:01It's small diameter low value material and getting it to market is is an enormous challenge onto itself. Historically that was managed by Native American communities for millennia using fire. We're talking about trying to use mechanical treatments to get in and reduce that uh the uh density of those stands, improve the forest health of those stands.
▶ 1:32:28That uh requires resources because it is um uh because of the fact that the value is low and the distance to markets is far. So it's very complex. At the same time, the value of timber has dropped through the floor recently and uh mills are in trouble. The existing mill infrastructure is in trouble.
▶ 1:32:53So, as we're trying to ramp up production on federal land just by 25%, uh where is that where is that going to go? It does provide an opportunity for private land owners to go into a longer rotation, but they have to be able to sustain that longer rotation in terms of economically is it is it viable to them.
▶ 1:33:17Uh so it it is incredibly complex but I believe that we know where the biggest problems exist on the landscape and we know where the most structures and people's lives are at risk and that of course is where uh we've managed heavily in the past and and then we uh cease that management. So targeting near communities and uh in areas of dry forest type make the most sense.
▶ 1:33:46The problem is the highest value timber isn't going to be located there. It's going to be in wet, more moist forest types and in areas where yes, forest health treatments are needed, but that may be that it's not at the level of priority as the dry forest types which lack the mill infrastructure. So, sorry to just amp up the complexity uh perhaps, but I I think that um uh Dr.
▶ 1:34:16Moahan's point about fire having been a part of this landscape. It it is a fundamental part of the ecology of these forests and we need to start learn how to live with fire and how to work with fire. And that means using those mechanical treatments that allow us to get fire back on the land and then allow fire to do the work that it normally does in a way that doesn't threaten uh communities and threaten lives and e economies.
▶ 1:34:44There's also more to say about private land management and the the uh the amount of timber that's being generated there versus what's being generated on federal land. And putting that in that global context because yes, we are importing uh 30% of our total uh lumber demand is coming from outside the country and it's coming from places that don't have the environmental laws like we do have here.
▶ 1:35:13And so we actually export an environmental footprint that we don't have necessarily here in this country. And and that global context needs to be taken. Sorry, I went over. No,
▶ 1:35:25thank you. Thank you for your response. I only gave you three and three minutes to to explain something very complex.
▶ 1:35:31We can we can loosen up here a little bit, Dan. So it's all right. Um let me come back to you, Dr. my hand on uh we're talking about the personnel and uh uh ability to get out the tools and and use them a little bit more. Um is there any more you wish to finish on that thought before we go to the next uh next
▶ 1:35:51I I I think I said the most important things. I just think that we do need those folks that are familiar with the districts and are designing the treatments that need to be done in those areas to continue to do the work um that they're doing on the on the forest service side if you will.
▶ 1:36:06Well, I guess I was more specific on on newer tools and newer newer ideas that and authorities exclusion etc. Are they doesn't hasn't been to seem seems hasn't been the participation or desire to use those tools as strongly as you know some there's a lot of frustration out there. Yes, that's correct. It is definitely um
▶ 1:36:26people using what they already know or what they were trained to use um and those uh older ways of doing work are in general less efficient than using their um tribal partners uh through the service first authority.
▶ 1:36:37What do we need to take it to the next level? Do you see pent-up demand or roadblocks towards having more tribal and local participation as as uh more towns been doing and trying to partner with others on? I think that's the opportunity we're looking at squarely in the face and trying to figure out how to do that. Using service first for harvesting timber won't necessarily be the right tool. We'll need to use the good neighbor agreement and thank you for this committee's work on that. It's very exciting.
▶ 1:37:05Again, we have a couple of um folks that are interested in having that conversation uh with us um at different forests.
▶ 1:37:11Are you seeing any impediments to do that right now from the government side or is a matter just getting out there and getting getting after it? It will be interesting to see how it plays out. It will take time. The treatment has to be fully uh figured out in order to use a good neighbor agreement. Um that's on the forest services uh shoulders and they're at capacity.
▶ 1:37:34So the extent to which that gets out to us will depend on their ability to get those treatments ready uh to be put into an agreement. That's a timeconsuming process.
▶ 1:37:45Okay. Thank you. Uh Mr. Dane, let's come back to the tree mortality situation a little bit that uh um mortality seems to be running around nearly 2% per year additional trees dying off and that's not counting not counting fire. Is that just insects or age or other other
▶ 1:38:07that includes fire from the chart that I submitted with my testimony today?
▶ 1:38:10Does include fire.
▶ 1:38:11Fire and natural disasters. Uh insect infestation. Yes. Yeah, I guess when I look at some of our Sierra forests here that haven't burned, you can, you know, like one one example east of Fresno there when we've traveled, uh uh there's so many gray trees amidst the uh the green ones. And so that that's got to be insect or drought. So what what what representation is that of uh the overall
▶ 1:38:40It's it's a big part of it. Um in Minnesota, we had a 30,000 acre fire this year. We don't have a lot of wildfires in Minnesota. It was all spruce budworm kill um in in the national forest. So infestation and mortality as as a result of that um definitely has an impact.
▶ 1:38:56Many years ago when um Colorado was impacted by the large pole pine beetle uh infestation um the uh forest service, the counties they got together and said we need to address this h this problem we have here. let's get the loggers to come in here and uh clean this up. And then they had a little bit more of a conversation. They said, "Wait a minute. Where's all the loggers that used to be here in Colorado?" And they said, "Oh, we ran them off 20 years ago."
▶ 1:39:23You know, so they actually called Minnesota loggers to come down to Colorado to explore cleaning up the timber down there. So the the uh infestations are a problem. And if you don't have support for a timber industry, uh you can't just turn a light switch on and bring loggers in to uh clean up those messes.
▶ 1:39:42So you can count on a lot of it being not just insect or drought, but on wildfire, too. Tell tell me a little about what you're thinking on uh the way wildfire is uh is handled here. We've had some frustration in past years of uh a uh monitoring approach with Forest Service on on at least several California fires and uh even though there was promises made to jump on them as soon as possible.
▶ 1:40:07Why does it seem there's so much frustration with monitoring or a uh you know my deals always like to say I'd like to get the fire out before it has a name or a t-shirt vendor selling it with the name you know. So how how do we what what's your what's your picture? Why do you picture that with the how the veracity of getting at the fire and how hard it's fought on federal land?
▶ 1:40:28You know, uh when when my son was young, he fell down and got injured and uh hurt his back and they were he he actually lost a feeling from his waist down for a period of time and we brought him into the doctor and the doctor said um well, we're going to practice skillful Meaning, I said, "What's that mean?" He said, "We're not going to do anything. We'll just watch and see what happens." I think that describes the firefighting response um for the past few decades of skillful neglect of monitoring.
▶ 1:40:56Uh however, this new administration, this new fire chief uh US Forest Service USDA is taking a much more aggressive approach to um firefighting. Now, it can be argued that that aggressive approach might uh contribute to the buildup of density and and fuels and stuff, but uh you got one you got one choice or the other. And I think that uh we can deal with the fuels in a different way than strictly fire.
▶ 1:41:24You fire is a is a great tool used properly. We've had uh of course we had an example in New Mexico a few years ago. Sir Carly could have been here for to I think ask about that. But I think over 300,000 acres from a prescribed fire that was uh done incorrectly timing wise, weatherwise, what have you.
▶ 1:41:42So uh um is is there is hesitency for using more more of uh good fire grow out of that or are we utilizing prescribed fire the way we should be?
▶ 1:41:56I don't think we are utilizing it to the degree that we could be utilizing it. It's very tricky. I've been on wildfires myself and everything else like that. Um so you know I know one time a fire got away. They do get away. I mean and uh it was interesting the u um afteraction report that came out on that um the forest service said we had had an overachievement of our prescribed fire
▶ 1:42:19Yeah. Treated acres Mr. Bar Mrs. Barnes would you like to touch upon that from the Utah perspective?
▶ 1:42:26Yeah I would. Um thank you for that Mr. Chair. I think uh prescribed fire is something we try to use in Utah and use it the right way. This year we were in a full suppression mode on all fires because of the drought in Utah and because of the excessive fuels. We had two really good winters um that had an excessive grass crop with flashy fuels and hot temperatures. But I do think that we have to be careful when we're doing prescribed fire. It's easy to turn a community off to prescribed fire if it's not done in the right way.
▶ 1:42:55Um it is a useful tool on the landscape that can be done wisely and correctly. Um right now in Utah, managing our forests is something that we've looked at doing cross boundary wise and using all kinds of different um methods to do that. But I think it's an important way to use peri prescribed fire on the landscape. Also, we have a lot of beetle kill in Utah. Um trying to figure out what to do with those trees, get in and reduce those fuels on that landscape is something that's very important to us that we're trying to work through.
▶ 1:43:25um those present a catastrophic wildfire hazard and so reducing that is very
▶ 1:43:32Thank you. I've uh blown through my timeline that's loosening up here. I'll recognize Miss Selenus for a while.
▶ 1:43:39Thank you, Chair Lafa. This has been a great conversation. So, Miss Barnes, in your testimony, you touched on the importance of the reforestation, nurseries, and genetic resources program, which supports tree planting to help rehabilitate forest lands after severe fire events and other natural disasters. Can you share some more specifics as to why additional investment in the reforestation supply chain is needed?
▶ 1:44:03Yeah, so this ringer program is something that has been really important. um bringing partners in for native plant seed and talking about reforestation work um also for seedling production and focusing on adequate supplies of seedlings. Um unfortunately in Utah a few year more than a few years ago probably within the last 10 years we lost our nursery in Utah.
▶ 1:44:24So we rely on other states now for that seedling production or private nurseries in that area for that or a seed warehouse where we do seeding um but don't have any of the seedlings. So ultimately this is very important for forest resilience, landscape reclamation and also just for the rehabilitation after extreme fire events and it's something that really needs to be focused on.
▶ 1:44:47Thank you and I appreciate that given that I do have a big uh nursery industry in Oregon. So I do hope uh Oregon is a state that you look to but would love to work with you on on that program.
▶ 1:44:58Yes, that would be great.
▶ 1:44:59Okay. And I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:45:02Thank you. Uh I wanted to go over this roadless uh issue a little bit here because it's been made controversial and so um you know uh Miss Barnes, I'd uh what's what have you seen uh in in Utah and the other areas you you have expertise on with um previous roads? We have a lot that's happened in California, but roads that already existed being removed.
▶ 1:45:30I I know of people saying they're paid, you know, contracted to remove roads. And so when we when we talk about roadless areas uh uh what what are the facts on areas that did used to have roads and were actually able to be logged, managed, utilized, etc. And then uh and then made non non made made roadless because of neglect. uh became too expensive as sometimes the excuse to maintain or just flat the priorities changed.
▶ 1:46:00They didn't want roads on them anymore. Do you have any insight on on um on on that inventory of roads going down versus uh some of the areas being talked about for possible new roads going in?
▶ 1:46:16Yeah, I don't have those exact numbers. I'd be happy to provide those with you as far as Utah goes um on the inventory of the number of roads, the roadless rule in Utah,
▶ 1:46:24what's the trend feel like to you in Utah there?
▶ 1:46:26Um there's quite a few areas that have been closed off um due to the roadless rule that prevents us from getting in and doing work in that area,
▶ 1:46:34but used to have used to have roads.
▶ 1:46:36Correct. So they've been taken out.
▶ 1:46:37Yes. So with regard to that, Utah would support um you know being able to get into areas to do fuel mitigation work. The one thing that we can't control is where that fire starts and that's the unfortunate place for us. The one thing we can try to control is the fuels like I was talking about earlier. So being able to navigate through those areas and remove those hazardous fuels is something that we would benefit from and also being able to reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfire.
▶ 1:47:06What do you think this contention that uh installing roads means more fire where the roads are versus uh how fires are are caused? Because What I notice in in my area is that you'll have hundreds, many hundreds of lightning strikes causing fire of one size, the other you know, uh, roadways that do have people going up and down them. You know, like the car fire and reading was caused by a flat tire on somebody towing a trailer and the ground the tire down until you made sparks and it got in the weeds.
▶ 1:47:37Even then, the response could have probably put it out, but that's a different story. So, uh, what what about this idea that road roaded roaded areas are somehow a greater fire danger than than natural causes such as lightning,
▶ 1:47:50Yeah, I think there's truth to that. I mean, in Utah, we we have a number of human-caused wildfires. Um, one thing we've done in Utah is we've started what we call the fire sense program, and that's changing human behaviors of how humans start wildfires. We've been really successful at reducing human-cancaused wildfires in Utah. This is an educational campaign. We've been able to reduce humancaused wildfires. They were up in the upwards of 80%. We're now down into the 50 to 60%.
▶ 1:48:20So that's almost a 60% reduction in some years for human-caused wildfires. Unfortunately, this year we've seen some large fires on our landscape in Utah that have been caused by humans. Um, we also get a lot of dried lightning in Utah. Um, and that also causes fires. But I think focusing on what your number one cause of those starts are and starting campaigns like we have for fire sense that really focuses on that human behavior change is really really important.
▶ 1:48:50I would encourage other states to look to Utah um as we have had a lot of success in that area. Uh but the one thing that we can control and I'll go back to that is just the fuels on the landscape by doing proactive work and that's something that we're trying to get better at doing.
▶ 1:49:07Certainly, we've uh we've worked legislatively to try have uh more clearance around roads and especially power lines too that would uh you know, we're not talking every Forest Service road per se of having a wide gap, but certainly along our our our highways, our freeways, you know, the bigger roads, we we need to have a wider uh wider buffer between them and and the forested area. And uh Mr. Mr. Dane, would you touch on that a little bit too, please, with the the roadless
▶ 1:49:37Yeah, chairman, I really appreciate the opportunity. I was getting a little anxious there. I wanted to try chime in there. Um, you know, the the roadless rule was an inr run to block access and particularly for logging and mining. That's my opinion. Okay. Um, however, uh it was an artificial restriction before the roadless rule. For 100 years, forest management was was, you know, working just fine.
▶ 1:50:04So, according to the American Forest Resource Council, nearly half of all roadless acres are located in areas rated as high or very high wildfire risk. Since the roadless rule was enacted, more than 8 million acres of roadless uh forests have burned, highlighting the consequences of limiting access and management.
▶ 1:50:30And so the roadless rule was merely put in by the forest service as a as a guidance or as a rule. It wasn't made by a change of law. Correct.
▶ 1:50:38Yes, it was a rule. In fact, if you look back at the history of it, there were quite a few comments u opposing it from within the forest service.
▶ 1:50:48Within the forest service. Okay. So, I guess the the winds change on that a little bit, don't they? So, um you have any more you want to do? You shorted last time.
▶ 1:50:58Okay. All right. Um well, I um I could go all day, but I don't think everybody wants to do that. You know, we're pretty fired up about this issue. So, uh I'll close a little bit on um on uh the personnel, which is indeed a a difficult one, but uh uh with Forest Service that uh we know that they have over 11,000 on hand, which actually is above their stated goal for 2025.
▶ 1:51:26So, we have did have indeed have employees leave the agency and uh some do hold red cards and those are able to be recalled and uh a handful uh 300 of them are came back and actually ever had fire experience. So, the numbers we're talking about on the firefighting side is uh is uh we're not out of bounds. Um so, it indeed will come back to the the thought that staffing is a challenge.
▶ 1:51:53uh we had a firing excuse me a hiring freeze that was initiated over a year ago under the previous uh uh regime as well. So you know it you can go back and forth on that but uh I think we'll we'll continue to work to make sure that we have the uh best trained uh best equipped as as best we can and we'll get through this because uh we want great results and the partnerships like Dr. Mahan was uh working on and those are those are pretty great.
▶ 1:52:22So we will um and and many many others around around the country. So we want to expand upon that with the more success in the farm bill. We still have to uh address the skinny portion of the farm bill where policy changes and updates will be done here soon. And so hopefully we can get that done. Right. So um I I think we're in a pretty good spot for today's hearing. I look forward to having having more here soon.
▶ 1:52:49We've been trying to drink from a fire hose so far this year. I said, "I'd like to have more of this activity." Right, Melus? And um and address it because it's it's a it's a big thing. It's an ongoing issue and in the the midst of this fire season here. Thankfully, it hasn't been worse, but uh I won't say that to people six-digit fires in our district too much. So, anyway, um let me get to the legalities here real quickly and we'll uh Mr. chair.
▶ 1:53:18Um, did you have a closing thought?
▶ 1:53:21Okay. Um, let me recognize uh, Miss Leitz for a closing statement.
▶ 1:53:25Uh, thank you, Mr. uh, Chairman, and thank you again to our witnesses for being here today. I think that, like I said, the conversation was very robust, and I think we had a lot of takeaways, and I am really concerned actually about um, our forest health and the capacity to address it at the federal level. And I don't think we're making the right investments. We weren't at a place of full capacity when I got to Congress in 2023 and the situation has only gotten worse.
▶ 1:53:51And um from the witnesses today, I think we all do need to work together to to figure this out to make sure that we have market access and that a fair level playing field for um the wonderful product that we do have here in the United States. And I think we have to figure out how we restore balance, but we do need the help of the federal government and the workforce that um it provides and the right training as well. And that was a big takeaway for me today. So, I just want to thank again our witnesses.
▶ 1:54:18Um I'm eager to work across the aisle with my with my colleagues and to figure out how we we move something that meets the moment and meets the demand that we're seeing. So, thank you and I yield back.
▶ 1:54:29Thank you. All right. Um about to wrap up here, too. So, uh I guess just one final thought on the roadless areas is that, you know, just just because it might be, uh declared open to 58 million acres additionally, it doesn't mean all 58 million are going to have that work done on them. is going to be pretty strategic in where if it's access to timber or if it's a it's an issue of uh uh the best strategy for uh the infrastructure for fighting fire.
▶ 1:54:59It it's it's it you know it's that's sometimes the things get a little hysterical on that. But certainly you're not going to see all 58 million acres immediately affected by roads. I've had some uh conservationists or outdoors folks expressing some opinions with me and uh on that and it's uh when you know when you're talking about some of our trails for specific Crest Trail actually is closed in a portion right now and that's that's uh so you're not going to necessarily preserve all of it
▶ 1:55:30by staying being forced to stay out of it. So, I think what we're just after here really is the ability to manage the land and have it be uh healthy and fires safe and of course the economic value of uh that we used to have for our communities that uh the timber agency used to bring. Instead, we're have to go hatand each year and work on this battle for secure rural schools, you know, which I hope we can get done in this CR round here because we're way over time on that and we're kind of it's kind of shameful.
▶ 1:56:00So with that, thank you panelists. Thank you for your time, your travel, for all everybody taking part, our staff here, uh both sides of the aisle, fellow colleagues. So under the rules of the committee, the record of today's uh hearing will remain open for 10 calendar days to receive additional material or supplementary supplement written responses from any of the witnesses to any question posed by any of the members today. So the the hearing of the subcommittee on forestry and horiculture is adjourned. Thank you. with big gap.
▶ 1:56:30The big one. Yes. Want to try it?
▶ 1:56:35All right.
▶ 1:56:37No joke.
▶ 1:56:40Don't tell everybody that you're in the
▶ 1:56:42I will.