▶ 0:15:19Himself for an opening statement. Closing the digital divide has long been a bipartisan priority for this committee. Under both republican and democrat majorities. We've discussed and found ways to ensure that every american has access to high speed broadband. Today, we have the opportunity to achieve this goal with the $42 billion broadband equity access and deployment, or bead program.
▶ 0:15:44I think members of both parties would agree that bead has not gone as we had hoped. After almost four years, not a single home has been connected. Some in my party wanted to completely scrap the bead program and start over. Um, because of how the previous administration ran the program. But that is not my view. And we want to move forward, and we want to move forward as quickly as possible.
▶ 0:16:12Um, and my goal is to fix this program so it can be deployed so the broadband can be deployed quickly. The name of my bill that I introduced to do this is called the speed for bead act. And it reflects this, uh, this priority. I'm pleased that many of my proposed reforms have been adopted by the trump administration, and that they're working quickly to review and approve state proposals. Still, money alone will not close the digital divide.
▶ 0:16:40Burdensome, opaque and expensive permitting reviews that exist at every level of government continue to prevent or delay deployment. I've heard this from broadband providers across the country. In my home state of north carolina, one provider has waited over a year for the department of the interior to review its application to build on federal land.
▶ 0:17:01Even though the agency is required to provide a response within 270 days, another north carolina provider, uh, their project was delayed because it has to do, uh, historic preservation review despite the fact it's on previously disturbed terrain that likely already had a review. And this is in addition to lengthy state and local application reviews that can include excessive costs unrelated to approving the permit.
▶ 0:17:29Unless we streamline the permitting process, all the money we've dedicated to deployment will be tied up in burdensome reviews, resulting in more unnecessary delays, forcing millions of americans to continue to wait for connectivity. Energy and commerce committee republicans are committed to reforming this process. For the past three congresses, we have introduced a package of bills to address this problem.
▶ 0:17:54Each of these bills tackles an obstacle that is either prevented, delayed, or complicated deployment, with the goal of instilling certainty, predictability, predictability, and savings into this process. For example, my rapid act would exempt small cell wireless antennas from burdensome and expensive environmental and historic preservation reviews, as well as reform the tribal notification process to expedite wireless broadband deployment.
▶ 0:18:22I look forward to the discussion today to find the best path forward together republicans and democrats. Uh, some of these bills passed the house last congress with bipartisan support. I hope we can pass those bills, as well as the others, into law. This congress enacting this package will make deploying broadband cheaper, more predictable and less burdensome, ultimately connecting more americans. That's the bottom line. I want to acknowledge our partners at the federal communications commission for their work on this issue.
▶ 0:18:52Under then chairman pai, the fcc used its authority to remove state and local obstacles for deployment. They worked to implement shot clocks and cap fees where they can. They work. Their work is continuing under chairman brendan carr, as they will seek comment later this month on additional proposals. We're grateful for this work and through these bills hope to codify and build on what they have done.
▶ 0:19:18Hope instead of playing the blame game today, we can focus on making sure every american has access to the broadband service that is essential to life in the 21st century. We have an esteemed panel of witnesses with us today, all of whom have expertise with the challenges of deploying broadband. I look forward to hearing from them and I look forward to this discussion. And now I recognize the ranking member, the gentlelady from california, for her opening statement. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:19:48Before we begin today's hearing, I want to start with something that should unite us. Every american deserves a right to speak freely and safely. Freedom of speech is a cornerstone of our democracy, and political violence has no place here. That's why I strongly condemn the assassination of charlie kirk. We must all stand against this violence and stand up for free speech.
▶ 0:20:15Defending free speech also means standing against government censorship. Yesterday, abc pulled jimmy kimmel off the air after threats from president trump's fcc chair. That censorship, plain and simple a direct attack on the first amendment.
▶ 0:20:34President trump has twisted the fcc from an independent agency into a political lapdog to silence his critics, and republicans are letting it happen. If they truly cared about free speech, they'll pass my broadcast freedom and independence act, which shields the media from political retaliation no matter their views. And this committee must do its job.
▶ 0:20:59Hold the full oversight hearing on the fcc to demand accountability for its abuse of power. While this administration tears down our freedoms, is also blocking real solutions americans need, like connecting the tens of millions of trapped on the wrong side of the digital divide in my district, thousands are being left behind as our world goes digital. They're struggling to pay bills, see the doctor and work or attend class from home.
▶ 0:21:29Elijah floyd elementary in sacramento, where over 95% of students come from low income households, parents face impossible choices between food and broadband when they can't afford the internet, their children pay the price in the classroom. They're counting on us to deliver on broadband quickly and responsibly.
▶ 0:21:50This hearing could have been our chance for real bipartisan permitting reform, modernizing outdated systems and giving local governments the resources they need. Instead, republicans are recycling the same broken playbook, offering the same one sided, cookie cutter solutions we heard last congress. Let's be clear republicans are checking boxes, not connecting communities.
▶ 0:22:17Here's the real problem republicans won't address permitting offices are often understaffed and under resourced, mandating arbitrary deadlines and rubber stamp approvals doesn't fix that. It bulldozes local expertise and safeguards. Instead, we need federal, state and local collaboration. Local leaders are on the front lines. Mayors and my district are ready to move heaven and earth to connect their communities.
▶ 0:22:46Our job isn't to tie their hands, it's to help them succeed. This doesn't mean the status quo is perfect. We can and should improve permitting, predictability, and effectiveness, especially at the federal level. That's why I'm co-leading the digital applications act with congressman congresswoman kamik. It creates a one stop online portal to process and track broadband permitting on federal land.
▶ 0:23:15That's really that's real streamlining, practical, efficient, respectful of safeguards and local needs. We succeeded before with bipartisan big ones, policies and consensus driven fcc reforms. We should build on that, not tear it down. And let's not forget the bigger crisis. Permitting reform means nothing if president trump gets broadband funding.
▶ 0:23:40The bipartisan infrastructure law made a historic $65 billion investment in broadband through bead and digital equity programs so more people can benefit from internet access. In my district. Community organizations are ready to use this funding to help people like mohammed, a community college student who needed affordable, reliable internet to take classes and build his career.
▶ 0:24:05He joined computer for kids, a digital navigators program offering tools to engage digitally in the greater sacramento region. Broadband affordability and digital equity make stories like his possible. But president trump is freezing broadband funding, undoing states work and slashing affordability protections. These changes will cost consumers more while delivering less. At the end of the day.
▶ 0:24:32Be the digital equity programs are at best shot at closing the digital divide. Without them, permitting reform is just a band-aid on a gaping wound. We can't let this administration sabotage the very programs the communities are counting on. I thank our witnesses for being here today, and I look forward to the discussion. With that, I yield back. >> thank the gentlelady. Uh, the chairman and ranking member of the full committee are currently on the house floor managing debate.
▶ 0:25:01And so I'm going to recognize the vice chairman of the subcommittee, the gentleman from georgia, to deliver the chairman's opening statement. Thank you. >> uh, thank you, chairman hudson, for bringing us together for this important hearing. And thank you to the witnesses for your participation. Uh, two of our priorities here on the energy and commerce committee are closing the digital divide and maintaining america's wireless leadership. Both of these goals require deploying infrastructure to connect unserved americans.
▶ 0:25:30Like many of our constituents, whether we are putting fiber into the ground or building the wireless networks needed to connect people in more remote areas, we must ensure that every american has the opportunity to participate in the 21st century digital economy. Permitting continues to be one of the biggest obstacles to deploying this important infrastructure.
▶ 0:25:54Too often, broadband providers, from fiber companies to tower builders, are forced to delay their projects because of lengthy and cumbersome permitting processes that exist at every level of government. Money and time that should be spent on deployment is instead wasted on navigating byzantine layers of red tape. We must address these challenges to ensure that every american has access to connectivity.
▶ 0:26:18The legislation before us today, almost 30 bills will streamline broadband permitting processes and address a range of issues. These bills are implement shot clocks on state and local permitting reviews, so providers have certainty on when they can expect decisions on their applications. Cap excessive application fees so that money can be spent on construction rather than paperwork and compliance.
▶ 0:26:46Exempt certain projects from redundant environmental and historic preservation reviews. Encourage federal agencies to prioritize broadband applications and provide transparency into the opaque federal permitting review process. I'm proud of the work that the members of this committee have done to advance these proposals. Enacting these bills will help us build the infrastructure needed to close the digital divide and further our technological leadership.
▶ 0:27:15And today, we take the first step by obtaining expert feedback on the specifics. Thank you again to our witnesses for your participation. I look forward to hearing from you. And with that, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> thank the gentleman. Uh, I'll now recognize the gentlelady from new york in place of the ranking member for five minutes for her opening statement. >> thank you, mister chairman. This is ranking member pallone's statement, which I'm reading on his behalf.
▶ 0:27:42I have to start today by addressing the news of the day. After years of complaining about jimmy kimmel's jokes, president trump was finally successful in having the comedian taken off the air. Now, trump's censorship campaign has been carried out by chairman brendan carr at the federal communications commission.
▶ 0:28:06In fact, this latest kimmel situation was prompted by an explicit threat that the chairman, carr, made on a right wing podcast yesterday. The broadcasters that aired kimmel show can and I'm quoting, do this the easy way or the hard way. Deplatform kimmel or face the consequences at the fcc.
▶ 0:28:34This is unprecedented, outrageous, and above all, dangerous. In the past, members of this subcommittee, both republican and democrat, have been among the most vocal in calling out violations of the first amendment. So I demand today, Mr.
▶ 0:28:51Chairman, that we convene an fcc oversight hearing immediately so we can have an opportunity to hold chairman carr accountable for the way he has weaponized the fcc against free speech and expression. With that, I will turn to the issue at hand. Fast, reliable, affordable broadband internet is absolutely essential to modern life.
▶ 0:29:18It is the engine that powers most of our daily lives. And that's why I'm so disturbed that the trump administration is refusing to get broadband infrastructure funding out the door. It isn't supposed to be optional. This is the money that congress wrote into law for our constituents to make sure they have the broadband access they need.
▶ 0:29:41But the trump administration is choosing to deliberately delay and undermine the program, which would otherwise be putting shovels in the ground right now. It's a betrayal to our communities and our states, who have been counting on the bead funding we promised them.
▶ 0:29:58While I remain frustrated about the delays in the bead funding, I'm pleased that we have a handful of bipartisan bills before us today that would improve old and outdated permitting processes. It is no secret that some federal agencies operate according to archaic protocols that have slowed infrastructure deployment.
▶ 0:30:21Democrats are eager to work together with our republican colleagues on bills to address these and other real shortcomings. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the bills do not address the most pressing barriers to infrastructure deployment. Many of them are just politics dressed up as policy amounting to little more than backdoor attacks on important environmental protections.
▶ 0:30:49Others would needlessly and wrongly undermine local, state and tribal governments. For instance, the quote, shot clock, end quote legislation before us today would impose arbitrary deadlines and a one size fits all mandates on local governments, ignoring basic sunshine laws that ensure constituents have a say in local decisions.
▶ 0:31:11I cannot support efforts like these, which would steamroll mayors and town councils in the communities we serve, and strip our constituents of their right to be heard. If my republican colleagues really want to remove barriers to broadband deployment, they should consider legislation to provide federal, state, local, and tribal partners with the resources they need to get the job done.
▶ 0:31:37Passing a bill here in washington that simply tells local and tribal governments to not only do more, but to do it more quickly and with less is simply not a real solution. The truth is, no matter. Excuse me, no amount of permitting reform can make up for the damage.
▶ 0:31:57The trump administration is actively doing to broadband deployment by delaying the bead program, which should have broken ground at the beginning of the year. Instead, commerce secretary lutnick has imposed further delays and forced states to restart their work from scratch. The result is that nine months later, no shovels are in the ground and there are fiber optic cables in the warehouse collecting dust.
▶ 0:32:29Now, entire communities will remain disconnected and unable to access broadband internet. The. The trump administration is also poised to spend billions of dollars to subsidize inferior service options like satellite, which every american can already access today. Low earth orbit satellite broadband service like elon musk's starlink is the main beneficiary of secretary nix meddling with the bead program.
▶ 0:32:58But federal investments in broadband deployment are meant to build infrastructure to communities that the private sector has not reached. It appears secretary lipnick's plan is to saddle communities with the cheapest service available, so that he and president trump can illegally claw back tens of billions of broadband dollars that were promised to our states. With that, Mr.
▶ 0:33:23Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. >> thank the gentlelady. And I would just like to remind all members of this committee that this is a really important hearing. These witnesses have have made extraordinary effort to be here today to testify. I hope we can really focus on this issue of at hand, of how quickly we can get broadband deployed. And I think we may have some disagreements about how to get there. Um, but but I really hope we can stay focused on that.
▶ 0:33:52Um, I hear, uh, both the ranking member of, of the subcommittee and the full committee raised concerns about, uh, the jimmy kimmel issue. I just think maybe we can move beyond that and focus on the issue at hand. I find it interesting they raised that because two senior members of this committee in february of 2021 wrote, the ceos of 12 content providers, uh, asking them to censor, uh, fox news and newsmax and other organizations because of what they claim to be misinformation.
▶ 0:34:22Um, I also have a letter I remember from march 1st of 2023 where, um, both akeem jeffries and, uh, charles schumer wrote a threatening letter to fox news saying that they needed to take action against tucker carlson. And lo and behold, a month later, they fired tucker carlson. So, um, I just find it a little bit curious that that folks are raising this issue in this way.
▶ 0:34:46Now, uh, I hope we can just put this aside, and let's focus on the issue at hand and show respect to these these great witnesses who are here. Um, as we've now concluded member opening statements, the chair reminds members that pursuant to the committee rules, all members opening statements will be made part of the record. Uh, we'd like to thank our witnesses for being here today to testify before the subcommittee. Our witnesses will have five minutes each to provide an opening statement, which will be followed by a round of questions from the members of the committee.
▶ 0:35:15The witnesses here before us today are jonathan spalter, president and ceo, us telecom, the broadband association. Patrick halley, president and ceo of the wireless infrastructure association. Stacy pies, senior vice president of government affairs and policy and compass. And drew gardner, director of policy engagement, benton institute for broadband and society. Thank you all for being here today. Mr. spalter, you're recognized for five minutes. >> well, thank you very much.
▶ 0:35:44Chairman hudson and ranking member matsui, all members of the subcommittee who are convening us here today. You know, one of the many statistics that are flying around social media, uh, and I confirm it by, uh, a human being source, not just by chatgpt. Is that for kids that are entering primary school, 65% of the jobs available to them will be in fields that don't yet exist. But here's the catch.
▶ 0:36:11That statistic actually comes from 2016. Those same kids now are just entering or are freshmen in high school, and they're staring at an uncertain future, preparing to make very big choices that are going to shape their lives as well as our nation's future. And we owe it to them and every generation coming up behind them to move with urgency today on the matter before us, to build the networks that will carry them into the careers, industries and innovations that they and we can barely imagine.
▶ 0:36:43And we know that permitting delays are one of the single greatest barriers to their future. Without timely permits, there is no broadband. And this requires policy reforms. But it also requires a shift in our collective mindset toward practicality, towards common sense outcomes over bureaucracy, more greenlights and less red tape. And we think there are three big principles to help us get there.
▶ 0:37:10The first is let's cut duplication in places where infrastructure already exists, obviously where rights of way have already been studied. Let's not go back to square one. Let's expedite the approvals. Second, clear timelines on federal lands. That means decisions within 30 days. If after 60 days, if no decision, then that's the decision the permit is deemed granted. We move, we build, we connect.
▶ 0:37:40Third is end the gridlock where permitting delays are unreasonable or simply unsolvable. There must be rational federal mechanisms to ensure that broadband deployment can keep moving forward. Now permitting, horror stories can be shared around a campfire with a flashlight under your chin. And we've all heard far too many, and I'm happy to share more in my testimony. But what we found is that the problem is rarely rejection. It's delay.
▶ 0:38:09Crews are hired, equipment is staged, capital is invested, and then projects vanish into permitting purgatory. And we're not here asking to lower standards. We're here seeking better processes. Our country can no longer afford to keep reciting the same old excuses. If that's all we accomplished today, then we repeat the very same bureaucratic failures we're here to try to eradicate.
▶ 0:38:38Too much is on the line. The opportunity for every community to compete, to be able to compete, to be sites for data centers and advanced manufacturing jobs. America's leadership of the ai revolution, our nation's ability to compete with our global rivals. We know that china right now is salivating as we speak at the thought of american bureaucracy grinding our progress towards innovation to a halt.
▶ 0:39:07One of the greatest threats to our connected future is death. By a thousand paper cuts. This is particularly urgent right now, as we've heard, because bede will soon be on the clock. Providers. Our members have just four short years from award to build and deliver. Permits are the biggest barriers to hitting these important marks. And Mr.
▶ 0:39:33Chairman, if broadband permitting stays stuck in the past, many of your constituents will be to our global competitors are not waiting. Neither can we. Your nation's broadband providers are ready. Our trenches, our engineers, our splicers, our linemen, our entire broadband workforce. They're raring to go. Let's get them moving. Let's get them building. Thank you very much. Look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much, Mr. hawley.
▶ 0:40:03You're recognized for five minutes for your opening statement. >> chairman hudson, ranking member matsui, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for holding this important and timely hearing. I'm pleased to be here on behalf of the wireless infrastructure association, the principal organization representing the companies that design, build, own and operate the infrastructure that powers america's mobile and fixed wireless networks.
▶ 0:40:27Wia member efforts to deploy and upgrade wireless infrastructure are directly affected by permitting decisions daily, and we welcome the opportunity to share our perspective, whether it's from the front seat of your car, your own car, or perhaps an autonomous taxi inside a stadium on a manufacturing floor, streaming a movie from the comfort of your couch or while responding to an emergency. Access to wireless communications is essential.
▶ 0:40:58Wireless connectivity is at the core of every sector of our technology driven economy. That's why it is so important that the united states is, and that we remain the global leader in wireless. I'm here today first to share the good news of the american wireless success story, where we're getting our spectrum and our infrastructure policies right.
▶ 0:41:21It is working wireless carriers and their infrastructure partners are investing billions annually to close coverage gaps and add network capacity. Mobile broadband speeds are up, way up. Prices are down. Enterprises are increasingly turning to advanced private wireless connectivity, and its fixed wireless broadband service that's leading the charge to close the digital divide in rural communities.
▶ 0:41:48With 13 million homes now connected with 5g fixed wireless home broadband service, these networks will also serve as the foundation for the next technology revolution. Powerful advancements will be driven by artificial artificial intelligence technology that will be integral to the operation of wireless networks and new applications and services that will be that will be made possible by those networks.
▶ 0:42:15But I'm also here with a cautionary message our future success is not guaranteed. It depends on the adoption of smart infrastructure policies that unleash the full power of commercial spectrum. In the months and years ahead, we will collectively focus on the importance of winning the global ai race. And as we continue to reap the benefits of 5g, we will also chart a path towards winning the race to six g.
▶ 0:42:44The reality is that neither of those races can be won. Unless we win both. The champion will be the country that ushers in an era of unmatched productivity and economic growth, and leads advances in national security. That's why this hearing is so important. Congress, led by this subcommittee, already passed landmark legislation earlier this year, providing a pipeline of 800mhz of full power licensed spectrum for commercial use.
▶ 0:43:10That was a big deal, and there's still a lot of work to be done to free up the spectrum. The deployment of six g is expected to start by the end of this decade, and the us industry mobile industry will need access to at least 600mhz by then just to keep pace globally. So whether it's a macro tower, a small cell on a rooftop inside of a building, the full potential of that spectrum depends on access to wireless infrastructure.
▶ 0:43:39We are ready to get to work to build that infrastructure that congress has called for at the local level, this will mean having coverage sufficient to provide access to life saving connectivity and enough capacity to take advantage of the full capabilities of 5g and future 4g networks on the global stage. It's the difference between winning the ai race and standing on the sidelines.
▶ 0:44:05Wia seeks a national wireless infrastructure permitting framework, one that respects the important role of local governments and federal agencies in infrastructure siting. In fact, the local government role is essential for the sustainability of the wireless infrastructure ecosystem. We welcome an effective partnership with local governments. Specifically, we need a permitting framework that is predictable, proportionate and transparent. And the good news is we're not starting from scratch.
▶ 0:44:34Building off of legislation, the fcc, in a bipartisan manner over the past decade, has adopted a series of rules consistent with these principles. The legislation being considered by the subcommittee today would codify those important bipartisan actions and strengthen the rules of the road. Wia urges congress to create the certainty in our industry, and our government partners need to build the networks of today and tomorrow.
▶ 0:45:04I know that we all share that goal of connecting every single community, so let's work together to get the job done. Thank you very much. >> thank you, miss paes. You're now recognized for five minutes to deliver your opening statement. Be sure your mics on there.
▶ 0:45:25>> chairman hudson, ranking member matsui, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of encompass and our members. My name is stacy paes, and I'm the senior vice president of government relations and policy at encompass. I have the privilege of representing the creators, builders, and adopters of our digital ecosystem.
▶ 0:45:47These are the companies that are responsible for the infrastructure powering america's broadband and ai future. Together, we work to advance policies that turn investment into innovation and connect communities to the future. Today, we are all focused on the builders, the companies that are making the critical investments to bring advanced networks and technologies into everyday life.
▶ 0:46:15These builders need a permitting system that strengthens communities and secures our nation's economic leadership and national security. We commend this committee for considering legislative solutions today that will address some of the most persistent barriers to investment and deployment. The bills before you represent precisely the kind of leadership we need to ensure america's digital infrastructure keeps pace with innovation. We are at a pivotal moment.
▶ 0:46:45The us is investing billions in broadband and ai infrastructure. Our builders are ready, our capital is waiting, but our permitting system is stuck in the past. That is why encompass strongly supports permitting reform efforts such as the rail act, led by congressman john joyce, as well as fcc chairman, cars build america agenda. These efforts are not just about cutting red tape.
▶ 0:47:12They're about unleashing america's economic potential and securing our global competitive edge. Let me be clear. Permitting reform is economic policy. Every day of delay cost jobs stifles innovation and risks ceding our leadership to nations that are building faster than we are. Consider railroad crossings one of the biggest barriers to broadband deployment.
▶ 0:47:39We have seen fees as high as $45,000 per crossing and delays stretching nearly two years. That's not just a hurdle. It is a derailment. The rail act addresses this issue, establishing a fair and streamlined process that balances safety and local authority with the goal of getting networks built.
▶ 0:48:03We also commend ntia's work on bead, but permitting reform must go further. Private investments face the same broken system. Across the board, providers face a maze of duplicative reviews and inconsistent standards. Congress should extend streamlined permitting across all investments so every dollar delivers its full value, and we cannot afford to look backwards. Ai infrastructure is coming fast.
▶ 0:48:32It needs fiber energy generation and transmission and advanced data centers. These projects can't wait years. For permits to be issued, congress must streamline the deployment of multi-state fiber routes and energy corridors to support the ai revolution. If we do not act now, we will risk falling behind. And we applaud chairman carter's leadership at the fcc. His build america agenda demonstrates what can be achieved. Excuse me?
▶ 0:49:03Establishing strict, clear timelines, investigating prohibitions on deployment, and making the process transparent. And we look forward to working with him as he investigates and removes additional barriers to deployment. And we encourage you and congress to codify the fcc's reforms. Finally, congress must empower local leaders with bede and private capital flooding in, many communities are struggling to keep up.
▶ 0:49:32That's why we commend states like north carolina, which have taken proactive steps to streamline permitting as part of its bede implementation strategy. Recognizing that faster approvals are essential to meeting deployment deadlines and maximizing impact. With this consistent approach, states should be encouraged to support digital permitting tools.
▶ 0:49:55Skilled staff, standardized timelines, and emerging infrastructure needs such as ai corridors and high capacity connections. We appreciate the committee's attention to the practical challenges of implementation. So let me close with this. America's broadband future and the innovation it will power depends on the infrastructure we build today.
▶ 0:50:22We can either lead the world in deployment, or we can lead in excuses for why international competitors are moving faster in deploying emerging technologies. Builders are ready. Permits should be to. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. garner. You are recognized for five minutes for an opening statement. >> thank you. Chairman hudson. Chairman. Guthrie, ranking member. Matsui, ranking member, pallone. And members of the subcommittee.
▶ 0:50:52Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. The united states is about to make the largest investment in broadband in our nation's history. This investment, the 42 billion broadband equity access and deployment program, or bead, has the potential to drive high quality, affordable broadband to every home and business throughout rural america. But beads historic level of deployment will put historic pressure on permitting authorities.
▶ 0:51:17And this is especially true in rural areas, where permanent capacity is lowest and bead activity will be highest. Such permitting bottlenecks are a fundamental threat to bead success. Fortunately, congress gave bead the power to fix those bottlenecks. Congress did not restrict b to simply buying spools of wire and satellite dishes. No, it mandated that bead fund initiatives to ensure networks are deployed on time and deliver maximum value to their communities.
▶ 0:51:45These non deployment uses, which were written by bipartisan members of congress, give bead to the give b the ability to promote things like workforce development. I and to the point of this hearing permitting improvements. In fact, until recently states were planning to use non deployment funding to address many of the topics we will discuss today. Surging staff capacity to local governments, streamlining and modernizing permitting processes, and increasing transparency and standardization.
▶ 0:52:15But all of that ended on june 6th, when the national telecommunications and information administration ntia, fundamentally restructured bead before june 6th. Bead was poised to bring reliable, affordable, high speed internet service to millions of rural americans. A handful of states were even ready to begin construction. But then nti's leadership hit the reset button.
▶ 0:52:37They created new rules to make bead, prioritized cost cutting over everything else, and they gave states a mere three months to implement these changes an impossible task, as time would show. Suddenly, faced with expensive prospects, with the expensive prospect of re-engineering applications for a now unfavorable program, many isps dropped out. And now we are seeing the consequences. All 56 states and territories have discarded their original bead plans.
▶ 0:53:05Over 40 have submitted restructures plans, and none have been approved to begin construction. Preliminary results indicate that the mixture of technologies have shifted markedly away from fiber and towards low earth orbit. Leo satellite, with kuiper and starlink ranking first and second in terms of location, won by a wide margin.
▶ 0:53:27Yes, many locations will probably still get fiber, but the distribution is extraordinarily uneven across the country, with some states achieving over 90% and others under 10%. Such low outcomes are devastating for rural communities. They know better than anyone that only fiber can guarantee their connectivity. Those who don't get fiber now may never get another chance.
▶ 0:53:52And as ai and other innovations demand more and more bandwidth, these communities will fall further and further behind. Bead also no longer addresses the primary cause of the digital divide, which is affordability. Thanks to the restructuring, a subscription that would have cost $30 a month may now cost in excess of $80 a month.
▶ 0:54:14If people can't afford to use these networks at their tax dollars are building, what was the point of building them? Unfortunately, ntia is about to restructure bead for a second time. The agency will soon roll out price caps that are designed to cut fiber from state plans with all the precision of a lawnmower. Nti's goal, seemingly, is to increase the amount of non-deployment funds available for them to claw back.
▶ 0:54:42That would mean no money for permitting improvements. The impact on states would be disastrous. For example, in north carolina, the upcoming changes could drop the state from 68% fiber, 38% satellite to nearly 50 over 50, and it would cut 1 billion over 1 billion in non-deployment funds from the state budget. Other states would not fare much better. Isps, including many small ones, would lose well over half of their funds.
▶ 0:55:14Ntia's chief of staff recently said that bead is a deployment program, not a deployment program. That is wrong. It is wrong on the law and it is wrong on principle. Bead is a connectivity program and that is why bipartisan members of congress designed it to address all aspects of the digital divide. Ntia's misunderstanding of its own program not only threatens billions of dollars in non-deployment funding, at risk connectivity for millions of rural americans who desperately need it.
▶ 0:55:42Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. >> thank the gentleman. We'll now begin questioning, and I recognize myself for the first five minutes. Uh, Mr. spalter, many of your members are helping close the digital divide. Um, what's the risk of of their efforts and programs like bead if we don't address permitting delays. >> it would be catastrophic. We are focused entirely on deployment as efficiently and quickly as possible.
▶ 0:56:08But the other side of the coin is we're not going to be able to do that without a certainty, clarity, speed and efficiency in how we're doing permitting reform. We need to move now. The only person, the only people that will actually suffer if we don't are your constituents. >> thank you for that. Um, have your members face more permitting challenges from state and local at the state and local level, or more at the federal level?
▶ 0:56:35>> uh, we face challenges on both sides, both federally and at the state and local level. Uh, we want to be able to deliver fiber broadband as broadly, as widely as possible. And we think that there are solution sets that will allow us to do so. Uh, we're looking forward to working both with state and local partners, but also to deal with federal land permitting to ensure that we can achieve our goals of a fully connected nation. >> thank you. Um, Mr.
▶ 0:57:00Hawley, the federal communications commission uses authorities to streamline state and local permitting process by implementing shot clocks, capping fees. Uh, have these rules helped expedite infrastructure development? >> yes. They've significantly helped expedite infrastructure deployment.
▶ 0:57:18Um, the thing I think is really important also to recognize is what the fcc has done over, really over the last decade is implement legislation passed by congress through the adoption of multiple bipartisan orders at the fcc. And they've done exactly what you said. They said, let's treat projects that are modifying an existing structure different than treating a project that is brand new. That's logical, right? It makes sense.
▶ 0:57:40It said, let's have fees that are proportionate to the type of project that it is, and that everything about it is a transparent process. And when you do that, you end up with a country that has some of the best wireless networks in the entire world. >> why is it necessary for congress to codify these rules? >> only congress can speak with one with with a voice that creates one strong national law. The fcc adopts rules, and those rules have been extremely helpful.
▶ 0:58:05However, like a lot of the things that the fcc does, they are sometimes challenged right at the local level, and you end up with, uh, unfortunately, a process where for the vast majority of us, luckily it is working. We are deploying wireless connectivity faster than we ever have. But there are still instances where in some communities those rules aren't followed, and that ends up with litigation. And I think would be a lot better off if we spent a lot more time deploying broadband connectivity based on a strong national law that you pass, then debating what the rules are in federal courts across the country. >> I agree with that.
▶ 0:58:34Um, are there areas where congress should go farther than what the fcc has already enacted? >> I think one thing you can do, uh, this, um, really focus on federal lands. Um, Mr. spalter said we have problems at the local level and on federal. That's true for wireless as well.
▶ 0:58:52Um, for example, uh, gao issued a report it was last year, and it said that roughly half of the applications that are being filed for permits on federal lands are not meeting the deadline that you set of 270 days. Mind you, that's nine months to review applications for deployment on federal lands. And perhaps even more troubling is the fact that there's a significant amount of applications where they actually didn't know when they had been filed, so they couldn't track them at all. And that's why I think something that congress can really focus on in a helpful way.
▶ 0:59:22And I'm pleased to see several bills do that. >> thank you. Uh, miss pies, a number of states have enacted legislation addressing broadband deployment through rail crossings. Uh, what impact have those laws had on deployment and what best practices can we take from those laws? Mike. >> this technology. >> yeah. >> I appreciate that question because railroad crossings are one of the biggest barriers to deployment, especially in rural areas of the country.
▶ 0:59:51When we have providers who have to cross railways, they end up the deployment process ends up lasting an additional year to two years beyond what it would take just to deploy the technology. So it's creating a new divide.
▶ 1:00:08We've got providers who are deciding they're not going to deploy if they have to cross the railway, because the additional cost and the additional time involved creates a barrier that is unsolvable. >> well, have we seen any of the the state laws help in this process? >> yes. And actually the rail act is modeled on some of those state laws.
▶ 1:00:35We have laws in virginia and minnesota and illinois. Some of them passed many years ago that have created progress. And just like patrick discussed the need for congressional action, having one unified process that enables both the railways and the broadband providers to know exactly what they're working with, what the time frames are to ensure that costs are actual and reasonable costs, and to
▶ 1:01:06Ensure that safety standards are followed, is really critical nationwide. >> thank you for that. My time has expired. Uh, so I'll now recognize the ranking member of the committee for five minutes for your questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. You know, we know the big program is the single largest federal broadband investment in american history, dedicating over $42 billion to connect every home and business in america. We're all excited about that.
▶ 1:01:33But just when states think they can move forward, this administration shifts the goalposts first by freezing funding and then by recklessly rewriting the rules, and now by threatening arbitrary price caps that got broadband quality for our most vulnerable communities. Mr. gardner, you've been working on this a long time. How would this administration be?
▶ 1:01:58Changes impact our ability to connect every american to reliable, affordable broadband. And how much more changes can we take? Can we complete this thing? >> thank you for the question. So the changes ntia has already made will make it so that bead cannot reach every unserved american in the country. They have instituted a new, um, criteria by which locations that are too expensive just simply are no longer eligible for bead.
▶ 1:02:25So by definition, it will not serve everyone but of the people it does serve. Now, on average, they will get more expensive service that is slower and less reliable, and fewer people are going to get it. Um, the investments they're making are not going to pay off over the long term. They're not going to be as reliable for for generating the economic development that we sort of expected to see from the original bead program. >> oh, that's very disappointing since we're all excited about connecting every american.
▶ 1:02:51Um, now, broadband infrastructure means nothing if people can't afford to use it even or lack the skills to do so. That's why president trump's illegal axing of digital equity grants, including $70 million for my own state, is so devastating. He's ripping away funding meant to help workers learn digital skills, seniors avoid scams, and families use telehealth and other cost saving tools. Mr.
▶ 1:03:18Garner, how does this affect the communities that need help the most and the local organizations that are counting on the funding to serve them? >> so, um, by cutting the digital equity act, in addition to a host of other changes to the program, the loss of the acp, this means that we're going to get less return on our investment from the bead program. The people are not going to be able to use the networks nearly as effectively as we wanted.
▶ 1:03:43Additionally, when we bring internet to many of these communities for the first time, we're bringing both the best of the internet has to offer, but also a lot of the worst the scams and all the dangers that can happen. So without the digital equity money to help people be safe online, we're creating inadvertently additional risks. >> sounds worse and worse here.
▶ 1:04:01Now, I'm just I'm disappointed that this hearing is being used to push partizan proposals that gut environmental protections and override local authorities, rather than focusing on practical solutions to real problems where permitting can be improved, democrats are ready to work on bipartisan solutions. That's why I co-lead the digital applications act with congresswoman cammack. This bill fixes a major barrier for broadband deployment, inconsistent permitting, timelines and paperwork.
▶ 1:04:31Access federal agencies across federal agencies. Mr. hawley, would you explain how a digital standardized permitting portal could reduce administrative burdens and speed deployment? >> I think we should be focused on digital tools and not focus our energy on paper applications anymore. And that's why your bill is so important. Um, one of the most important things we can do is just make the process as easy as possible for those who are on the receiving end of a lot of permits.
▶ 1:05:00Uh, and so we're very supportive of your legislation that would require the adoption and use of online portals and digital tools to expedite the process. >> okay. Now, um, a smart broadband strategy doesn't mean throwing billions at the cheapest technology, especially if it means a batting affordability and capacity to adapt to future connectivity needs. Mr. spalter, what are the long term tradeoffs if states lose flexibility to direct funding to the best mix of technologies?
▶ 1:05:29How does this impact upkeep, performances, and consumer affordability? >> thank you, congressman, for that question. And we are going to continue to work in close coordination with our colleagues at ntia, uh, to ensure that we can actually have the best results, the most positive results for your constituents and all constituents around the country with the beer, the b dollars that are going to be deployed.
▶ 1:05:55We're also encouraged, congresswoman, that they have committed to making sure that those dollars are actually, uh, sent to the states by the end of the year. Uh, we are ready. Our schools are in the fields, in the warehouses, our linemen, our technicians, our workforce are ready to go, are ready to go. But that's just part of the solution set.
▶ 1:06:16We need then to go to do the hard work of ensuring that it will not be persistent problems in delays because of permitting that are going to challenge us from actually getting over the finish line of getting those dollars. >> certainly. And I just have to say, though, that I've been very disappointed in the fact that the delays that we have, expediting broadband itself is really difficult for me to bear because I, we were really hopeful about this. So I yield back. >> thank the gentlelady.
▶ 1:06:44I now recognize the vice chair of the subcommittee, the gentleman from georgia, for five minutes to ask your questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And again, thank the witnesses for being here. Uh, you know, my entire tenure in congress has been a top priority of mine to expand broadband access throughout rural america, and in particular, the rural georgia and the 12th district of georgia.
▶ 1:07:06It is frustrating, though, that no matter how many billions and this is typical of so many things, how many billions of dollars we appropriate towards this mission, it remains incomplete. Now, I think we need to correct the record a little bit. Uh, on some conversation, uh, the biden-harris administration had three years to run bead, and only three states submitted final proposals at that time.
▶ 1:07:33In the three months since the trump administration reformed bead, 36 states have submitted final approvals. I'm also concerned that the fees that some state and local governments charge for processing application and using space in public right of ways will only increase the cost of deployment and make it hard to provide service to those who need it. Mr. and Mr. haley, could you describe typical application fees associated with building broadband infrastructure at the state and local level?
▶ 1:08:05>> I'd be I'd be happy to, uh, we find in many instances that state and local municipalities use, uh, access fees for permitting, not necessarily to meet costs, but essentially as a revenue center, as a profit center, as a mechanism to actually accelerate their own revenue needs. We need to make sure that to the extent that we are providing fees for such permits, that they are, that they are calibrated to exactly what kind of costs.
▶ 1:08:34>> is there a lot of variance in in what you see in these fees across the country? >> it is a hodgepodge of fees. They can be extremely excessive in certain circumstances. In oregon, for example, we find that there are localities that are charging literally hundreds of dollars for fees that should be significantly less. Uh, it really depends on the locality. Uh, the, the, the diversity of mechanisms in which we actually have to apply for those permits is extremely variable.
▶ 1:09:02We still are talking about using hard copy in triplicate on nonstandard page sizes, in addition to often exorbitant fees that are unmoored from the actual costs that should be associated with fees. We need to be able to address these in a more efficient way, and we're so glad that your work, congresswoman allen, and this committee's work is driving us towards that. >> thank you, Mr. haley. >> yeah.
▶ 1:09:30On the wireless side, uh, one of the things that the fcc has taken a look at is, um, making sure that fees for, um, applications for co-location on existing infrastructure or new builds are cost base. Um, and that's that is a fairness issue. Right. And it is about making sure that, um, there are funds being raised to cover the costs that local governments do have and they do to administer their, their, their, uh, their programs.
▶ 1:09:53But those fees should be directly related to the cost of actually running the program, not just to generate revenue, uh, and treating the process as a revenue generation opportunity. Uh, and what the fcc has done is it looked at what is the average cost of these fees and has determined what's reasonable. And you see some communities where it's five, ten x what the rest of the local governments are charging. And that's the problem, right? >> I understand, uh, given these fees, I worry that we will not be maximizing the money. We've, uh, uh, we've dedicated for broadband deployment.
▶ 1:10:23This money needs to go towards building these new networks, not helping local governments. This is especially true for the 42 billion that is, that has been dedicated to the b program. That's why I introduced the bfe act, which will improve transparency in the b program, allowing accountability for application fees. Mr. salter, you mentioned in your testimony that china is eager to see american bureaucracy, bureaucracy slow us down.
▶ 1:10:50How does streamlining broadband permitting, help us to stay ahead of global competitors? Uh. >> it tries to even the playing field. Let's be clear about what's going on today in the world. In china, in 2025 is expected that there will be $100 billion of capex invested. 50% of that is coming through an industrial policy by the chinese government. That's a about $50 billion. It's significantly more than we're spending here in the united states.
▶ 1:11:17Uh, they are actively moving forward on a national effort connectivity effort called the eastern data and western computing project. It's a multi-billion dollar effort to make sure that there's connectivity between data centers unless and until we have the guile and the focus to be able to move aggressively, to streamline and make more logical our own permitting systems so that we can truncate the time from application to approval, we are going to fall
▶ 1:11:48Behind in the ai race, and we can't let that happen. >> right? Well, I'm out of time. I it the other witness, if you would like to comment on that for the record, please submit that uh, for me. And with that, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> thank the gentleman chair. Now, recognize the gentleman from florida, Mr. soto, for five minutes to ask your questions. >> thank you, chairman colbert canceled. Kimmel canceled. Attack on the first amendment, pushed by president trump and backed by fcc chair carr.
▶ 1:12:16It's an extortion to attack broadcasters, licenses and mergers and more just for speech you don't like. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine biden blocking a recent fox news sports fox sports sale, until sean hannity and jesse watters were taken off the air for statements he found offensive. For these issues and more.
▶ 1:12:41Chairman, I ask and renew the call of our ranking member that we have an fcc oversight hearing. It's been quite a while since we've had one. Now turn to the matter at hand. There was a vision, high speed internet for all americans and a tale of two laws. The american rescue plan passed in march of 2021. It was in february 2023. Then governor desantis announces 7.6 million in rural broadband gets deployed in central florida.
▶ 1:13:09In areas of my district like canyonville, deer park, bull creek and yeehaw junction, which is a place we all have. This infrastructure law passed in a bipartisan way. November 20th 21st june 2023 allocations announce end of 2024. All states plans are approved. It's been an eight month delay. Why? Because president trump stopped the program.
▶ 1:13:37And then adding tariffs and mass deportations hasn't hurt either. 5.8 million americans are still waiting, including many folks in rural areas of florida. A permitting reform is part of the solution. So this is an important topic, but so are some of these other issues that we're talking through. Mr. spalter, how has tariffs affected, um, broadband lately? How how has that increased the costs? Are we going to just get less bang for the buck with the money we're spending now because of the tariffs.
▶ 1:14:08>> at the moment, where we're evaluating closely to the extent our supply chains are impacted by potential impacts from tariffs. But I will tell you that all of our broadband providers, all of our members have already pre-positioned their infrastructure, their human capacity, and are ready to go to deploy as quickly and aggressively as possible given current circumstances.
▶ 1:14:28And we're going to continue to work with our partners both at the state and local level, but also across the administration, to ensure that we can, uh, allow them to do their work as aggressively as possible. >> what do you think the balance is with local governments? You know, I know there's constantly attention as we're going through. I have a bunch of little towns in my area and counties. Um, they want some say in it, but we have to make sure we can deploy this. What do you think that balance is? To make sure we could get the this broadband out the door?
▶ 1:14:58>> uh, to the extent that you're referencing the balance of local officials in the discussion of permitting. Sure. I think, of course, our state, local and municipalities have to have a clear and, uh, voice. Local expertise is extraordinarily important. And I think our overall goal, uh, has to be collectively never to lower our standards when it comes to permit review, it's simply to see if there are ways that we can create solutions.
▶ 1:15:27For example, through the digital applications act, through making sure that we have national baseline standards deduplication where previously analyzed, approved, and or, uh, existing approvals. Uh, can, uh, lead us to speedier approval so we don't have to actually endure more costs, not only for members but for broadband providers, but also for constituents. >> thank you, Mr. hawley.
▶ 1:15:51Where do you think primaries are that cellular service can help with high speed internet? I know there's some effort to to be part of that solution. Where do you think the primaries are in america for, for those efforts. >> in terms of the the benefits of wireless. >> in terms of providing high speed internet? >> well, I think the wireless connectivity is is literally at the this is a central element of pretty much every aspect of our economy right now.
▶ 1:16:19I said in my testimony, 13 million homes right now are getting access to broadband at their home, providing speeds of several hundred megabits per second. These are many homes who never had broadband before, and we think that the trajectory, the potential path for that to fix wireless home broadband to continue is somewhere near 30 million homes.
▶ 1:16:38We're seeing broadband speeds on the download side now of, you know, on average 150, 200mbps in some urban areas myself, I've been able to use my cell phone on a mobile device and get over a gigabit per second down. There's unlimited opportunity associated with networks that are delivering that kind of connectivity. >> and we get that and we're going to use various technologies, but it's got to be high speed. We we launched starlink from central florida too. So we look at all these different areas, but we need to get this program out the door.
▶ 1:17:09Um, thanks to yield back. >> I thank the representative of your florida. You have junction, florida. Um, excellent questions. Uh, now recognize the former chairman of the subcommittee, the gentleman from ohio, Mr. latta, for five minutes for your questions. >> well, thanks, Mr. chairman, and this is a very important hearing. And thanks for having thanks for our witness for being here today. But just to verify once again on november, november the 15th, 2021, bead was signed into law. That's over three years and ten months from now I work.
▶ 1:17:38I've worked on a lot of different legislation. Uh, when it comes to communications and technology in the subcommittee and also working to make sure we had accurate broadband maps. We have to have the right maps to know where we have to deploy and where that money needs to be spent. But one of the things I know that when we were working on it were initially talking about bead was this I said, don't pick winners and losers don't pick winners and losers.
▶ 1:18:04The federal government does a terrible job of picking winners and losers, because I usually say this when they're going to pick a winner or a loser, we're all going to lose. So I think it's important we remember that, that what happens when the federal government does things like that. Mr. balter, if I could just start, uh, some questions with with you, you spoke of, you know, the permitting delays, the duplication, the timelines.
▶ 1:18:28And one of the things I'd like to ask is what happens to your workforce when you when you can't keep people out there to start deploying what your workforce doing at that time? Uh. >> uh, they can actually be either redundant, uh, or, um, literally waiting around for green lights to be able to deploy. And it's not just human capacity, but it's also infrastructure capacity. And that actually creates costs not only for broadband providers.
▶ 1:18:56Uh, it has potential job impacts. It also creates challenges in terms of economic productivity for the communities that we're meant to serve every day. Constituents in your community don't get broadband access creates economic challenges for that household. >> let me ask this because you bring up an interesting point. Is $42.1 billion the same worth as it was in november of 2021 as it is today? Uh. It is it sounds like a lot of money.
▶ 1:19:25But, you know, we know that inflation and everything else that that that amount has actually decreased. So costs go up. And so that $42.8 billion is not, is not the same value that we had at that time. So I you know, I think especially listening to your testimony, it makes me think about that, you know, time is money. Uh, Mr.
▶ 1:19:44Hawley, if I could ask, uh, a couple of questions, you know, when you were talking about the the delays out there, you know, for the on the federal government on going across federal lands that 270 days that they're supposed to be getting something done if the federal government agencies, departments don't come up and get something done, what's what are the consequences that they that they face? >> I think we have to think about what what happens on federal lands. Right?
▶ 1:20:11We all enjoy our beautiful national parks. People's lives are at risk when they don't have connectivity. Lives get saved when they do have connectivity. I actually just learned yesterday that the gw parkway and the bw parkway are on federal lands. I didn't know that, but it sure is important to me that we have good connectivity on the roads that consumers are using as they travel across federal lands. There are workers on federal lands, whether it's, um, energy projects or people who are working at those parks, that connectivity is important.
▶ 1:20:38And the other thing is there are a lot of homes that are adjacent to federal lands. And so making sure that we have connectivity and that the federal lands are part of that solution is really important. I was actually at a meeting earlier this week with a ceo of an executive at a tower company, and he was telling me about the towers they had built on a on a national park in the middle of the country. Uh, and what they're doing now, the park rangers, when people go in to hike to certain parts of the of the park, they give them a device and it tracks where they are.
▶ 1:21:07It only works because there's cellular connectivity now so that they can see where they are. And instead of having to send a helicopter every single time somebody doesn't come back from that hike, they know exactly where they are. They can go rescue them without having to pay for that helicopter. I said, how long did that take? He goes, it was an 11 year project. That's not acceptable. But you can see the types of. >> benefits and that's not acceptable because again, you brought something else up. And I'll just restate real quick because I know this has happened during covid when costs were going up and people were getting less service in europe.
▶ 1:21:36What we were doing here in the united states from our companies was that we were giving more, more services out there, adolescent lesser amount. So actually things we all did more because you invested in your networks, everybody did in the industry. So I think that's that's important for the future success. And um, just I know in my last 28 seconds, sorry about this, Mr.
▶ 1:22:00Chairman, with with a question about encompass, um, you know, when you're talking about the delays out there, uh, you know, you get fewer people connected and but what does that do to schools to, for telehealth and businesses out there? And people just want to stay connected with loved ones. And I only got eight seconds left. >> we've heard about the dramatic impact of a lack of connectivity for consumers and for businesses from our other witnesses.
▶ 1:22:29I really appreciate the fact that you highlighted schools and rural health hospitals, because the connectivity in many ways is even more critical, and our funds today, whether they are coming from the federal government or they are private sector investments, which a lot of our companies do not take federal funding, they invest their own money, need to be able to get through the permitting process so that we have school children who are connected so that we have all brag, my son, who's going to be
▶ 1:23:01A doctor in a few years, can participate in telehealth programs without the connectivity. Those people who are beneficiaries of those programs will not have that. >> well, thank you very much, Mr. chairman. I'm sorry my time overran and my time is expired, and I will yield back. Thank you very much. >> thank the gentleman. The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from new york, miss clark, for five minutes to ask your questions. >> good afternoon, and thank you, chairman hudson.
▶ 1:23:26I thank our chairman guthrie and abstentia to our ranking member in absentia and certainly to our ranking member, matsui, of this subcommittee for holding this very important hearing. And thank you to our esteemed panel of witnesses for joining us today. Access to reliable, high speed internet is essential in increasing digital, a digital and increasingly digital society.
▶ 1:23:51And I'm proud of the work democrats on this committee have done to bridge the digital divide in america. However, we continue to face obstacles in the deployment of broadband services that could help millions of americans in underserved areas. This past june, the national telecommunications and information administration restructured the bead program, causing more delays in the construction of reliable communications infrastructure.
▶ 1:24:20These delays make taxpayers wait longer and settle for less reliable and more costly internet services. This is not the goal of our $42 billion investment in the feed program. We want to increase access to high speed internet, not prevent it. I look forward to working with my colleagues on this committee to explore pathways to equitably streamline these permitting processes, bridge the digital divide, and unleash the full potential of our nation.
▶ 1:24:50My first question is to Mr. gardner. Mr. gardner, as this committee looks at efforts to streamline broadband deployment, what factors should we consider to ensure that low income and minority communities who have been subjected to both traditional and digital redlining in the past, do not continue to be left behind in other witnesses? You can chime in where you feel necessary. Thank you. >> yeah, so broadband is definitely not just a rural issue.
▶ 1:25:20Um, permitting reform, uh, by lowering barriers to entry can increase competition. And it can also give cities a way to sort of say we need to serve these areas. You can't leave these areas behind. You have to rectify some of the wrongs of the past. Um, and you need to make sure that these projects meet our needs. Also, I'd say that bead and its non deployment funding by law allows some of that funding to wire apartment buildings or to provide public wi-fi or to do broadband adoption.
▶ 1:25:47All efforts that will address that urban or digitally redlined community. >> uh, let me then extend this question to you. Um, Mr. gardner, in your testimony, you stated that ntia restructuring requirements are leading to a shift away from fiber. I'd like to dig into that topic a bit more.
▶ 1:26:11Can you explain to this committee the negative impacts of shifting away from fiber, and how they could perpetuate the digital divide, how that could excuse me. >> yeah. So, um, shifting away from fiber is similar from shifting from paved roads to dirt roads. Um, we are dirt roads may be cheaper, but you're going to do a whole lot less economic development, healthcare. You're not going to grow a modern economy with dirt roads.
▶ 1:26:40And the same is true for fiber. Um, so as we lose fiber, the areas that lose it are going to lose all the economic benefits that it drives the entrepreneurship, the increased investment, um, the government efficiency. For example, fema now requires you to get online, have an email address and work through these portals, use your digital skills to be able to access government benefits. That saves the government money. It ensures people can use their programs too.
▶ 1:27:04So it is it is going to be a very big blow for the communities that miss out on this arguably last, best chance they'll ever have at getting the infrastructure of the future. >> and in terms of just sort of the efficiencies, I think that one of the concerns is that, you know, we know that fiber optics, uh, you know, can withstand, uh, far more traffic, uh, than any other, uh, sort of infrastructure.
▶ 1:27:33Would you give a little bit more detail on why fiber is such a a game changer, if you will? >> yeah, it's bandwidth capacity. It can handle anything you throw at it, whatever that comes in the future, whatever you need today, it will be a guaranteed connectivity. But also it's once you get it to the household, it is guaranteed to work and it's going to work for 50 years. All other services, while they have their roles, they cannot give that guarantee.
▶ 1:28:00If you live on a hill, if you live in mountains, if you live near trees, if you're in a somewhat densely populated area, a lot of these other systems, like satellite, just simply will not reliably give you broadband service. >> very well, thank you very much, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> thank the gentlelady. Now, recognize the gentleman from virginia, Mr. griffith, for five minutes to ask your questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I'd like to start by. >> asking for unanimous consent to insert several letters into the record. We've heard some discussion today, Mr.
▶ 1:28:29Chairman, about business decisions being made and allegations that political influence was used in somehow, in some way, in those business decisions. And so I would like to submit a letter of march 1st, 2023 from, uh, charles schumer, then majority leader of the united states senate, and minority leader hakeem jeffries of the united states house of representatives, disagreeing with fox news and a letter dated february 22nd,
▶ 1:29:002021, signed by uh member congresswoman uh issue and member congressman jerry mcnerney, where they ask questions of 12 different companies that provide tv networks to, uh, local homes. And in one of the questions they specifically asked, are you planning to continue continue carrying fox news, newsmax and one america news network on u-verse, directv and at&t tv both now and beyond any contract renewal date?
▶ 1:29:29If so, why? And I would submit those. For the record, Mr. chairman. All right. Thank you, Mr. chairman. I'm glad to see the subcommittee discussing my bill, h.r.
▶ 1:29:43278, the broadband leadership act, which would make telecommunications infrastructure construction more efficient by expediting local permitting decisions under my bill, if a local permit is not approved or denied within 90 or 150 days, or an extension waiver is not obtained, the broadband provider would be granted a permit by default. Additionally, my legislation would ensure that permitting fees are tied to actual permit processing and equipment maintenance costs. Mr.
▶ 1:30:10Spalter, have your members seen delays in local permitting that could be interpreted as favoring certain providers over others? >> yes, we have. We've also seen, um, significant, uh, significant initiatives to ensure that, uh, there's not only favoritism, but there also can be instances where there are revenue based decisions about how those fees are actually established for allowing permitting, and we have to actually move forward and streamlining them, including through supporting your bill.
▶ 1:30:41>> and of course, one of the problems I have is, uh, some of my areas don't have service in certain neighborhoods. They don't have it in certain parts of rural counties. They don't have it. And could you provide some examples of exceptionally long permit delays that your members have experienced, because the permit delays mean some of my people aren't getting the broadband service? >> I think of just several examples. For example, we were recently in utah at the beginning of the summer.
▶ 1:31:05One of our local members there told me that they had waited literally three years to get a permit to go onto federal lands to, uh, repair a single fiber optic line. Three years. Uh, I heard, uh, another colleague, um, in Mr.
▶ 1:31:23Latta's district that I spoke to last week who had similar concerns that with respect to his accessing rights of way on a railroad line, he was delayed seven months before he got to the ability to actually get a flagger on the on, uh, the rights of way at $1,200 an hour.
▶ 1:31:42These are just two small examples that if you actually extrapolate, those are literally all parts of our country, communities across state, local, federal and railroad rights of way.
▶ 1:31:58>> well, and I know it's not all situations, but do you believe that in some localities clear again, not all that they're charging fees on broadband permits and fees for easement or pole attachment fees as a revenue stream for the community? >> oh, absolutely.
▶ 1:32:15Uh, there that is something that we see, um, not only with respect to permitting fees, but we also see, for example, franchising fees on top of permitting fees in certain municipalities that are slowing down our ability to not only, um, carry those costs, but are sometimes becoming disincentives for our providers to go into those municipalities and deliver service because of the excessive costs, entirely unmoored from reality affects.
▶ 1:32:43>> does that not particularly affect low income areas where it's already a disincentive to go in there, because you may not have that many households in where you do, they may not be able to afford the product 100%. Yeah, that's my concern. In a district that's economically stressed and mostly rural, I do have some small cities that operate in some small localities that operate, uh, some things. But uh, oftentimes they also have areas that are more economically stressed than the rest of the community. I do appreciate it.
▶ 1:33:12I have some other questions I'll submit for the record, Mr. chairman. With that I yield back. >> thank the gentleman. Chair now recognizes the representative from california, Mr. ruiz, for five minutes. >> yes, sir. Thank you so much, Mr. chairman. Uh, in light of, uh, the congressman's remarks, uh, earlier, I too would like to submit something for the record that came out about less than an hour ago from cnbc, the stock and market and business where the, uh, trump floats
▶ 1:33:43Pulling licenses if networks are against him after jimmy kimmel suspended. There's a difference between members of congress doing oversight, sending a letter asking them about their decisions versus the president of the united states actually demanding that people pull the license of people who disagree with them. Uh, I'd like to also submit this one, uh, that says fcc chair carr says, quote, we're not done yet.
▶ 1:34:10After jimmy kimmel suspension by abc. Uh. >> are these articles? >> yeah. These articles. Okay. Yeah, sure. We use. Will you. >> without objection. >> thank you. Uh, you know, I believe the bill of rights define the core of our country. And I hope my republican colleagues recognize their importance. They certainly recognize the importance of the second amendment. Uh, but you can't have the second if you don't have the first amendment.
▶ 1:34:39So I especially, uh, would like them to recognize the first amendment. While you may not agree with the content canceling jimmy kimmel live out of fear of retaliation from a president who quite literally can't take a joke clearly infringes on our first amendment right to free speech. And I look forward to our upcoming fcc oversight hearing, where I will have the opportunity to question commissioner carr about these actions.
▶ 1:35:06Okay, now, changing subjects. You know, we often hear calls for expanding broadband access and streamlining permitting processes. Uh, while these goals sound appealing, the real issues are in regions without broadband like the ones I represent. Oh, and by the way, incentivizing resources where they are needed the most is the definition of equity.
▶ 1:35:30So you all right now are having a hearing on equity in wanting to expand broadband access when they're where they're needed the most. Uh, so according to the coachella valley economic partnership, only five census tracts in the valley meet the federal communication commission's broadband standard.
▶ 1:35:52In imperial valley, nearly 30% of residents lack broadband subscriptions, with families traveling long distances for medical care and children falling behind without reliable internet. Similarly, roughly 6% of households in mecca in hemet, 5% in san jacinto 78% 7 to 8% in banning in beaumont lack reliable broadband, limiting access to education, telehealth and local business opportunities.
▶ 1:36:17The problem is, you know, the trump administration in january froze these broadband access projects entirely. They froze them. Subsequently, the national telecommunications and information administration issued a policy notice in june that forced states and territories to throw out their bid plans.
▶ 1:36:38These programs and start all over that decision has set us back at least six months and still waiting our students, without reliable internet, families lacking telehealth access and small businesses and farm workers cut off from the digital economy. So, Mr. gardner, I strongly support the affordable connectivity program, which republicans let expire. And now they're targeting the beads affordability requirements.
▶ 1:37:04With these constant attacks on measures to lower cost, how do we ensure broadband is not just available but affordable for families living paycheck to paycheck? >> thank you for the question. Um, I think one thing to do would be to bring back the acp, which not only ensures that broadband is affordable to households, it helps attract broadband infrastructure to the low income communities.
▶ 1:37:28Because when you have a guaranteed subsidy for these low income communities that are harder to serve, you bring you have reliable customers. So it helps us solve the infrastructure problem too. Then you could also fix the affordability, um, components of the of the program. We are using public funds to build to build networks in areas that by definition will not see competition. So if we do not give affordability protections on these networks, there's no way to ensure people can afford them.
▶ 1:37:58>> thank you. You know, permitting reform should be done, but it must be done right. It should never come at the cost of our communities, our state, local and tribal partners or our environment. Uh, so these bills before us today bypass tribal processes, forcing resource strapped tribes to meet strict timelines for approving construction on culturally and historically significant lands.
▶ 1:38:21They're basically giving companies blank checks to go in without consent, without permission onto tribal lands, to, uh, to do their own business. And I think tribes should definitely be at the table at all times. Thank you, I yield back. >> thank the gentleman. Uh, the chair now recognizes the chairman of the full committee, Mr. guthrie, for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chair. And I'm sorry. I was in another meeting. I didn't have the opportunity to hear your testimony.
▶ 1:38:49I'm excited about what we're working on and and hopefully getting our our broadband permitting reform and things done. So, Mr. haley, um, congress just reauthorized, uh, spectrum auction authority after it lapsed for two years. Restoring this authority was essential to maintaining our wireless leadership. Why is permitting reform so important now that we've restored this authority? >> thank you for the question, Mr. chairman. And I think it's an important one. I think people think that their smartphone just works by magic. Um, but it's not magic, right?
▶ 1:39:18It requires a whole bunch of spectrum, but it also requires infrastructure to put that spectrum to use. So congress just put forward a pipeline, which was a critically important step, authorizing 800mhz of spectrum for for full power commercial use. That is going to be what really leads us forward, uh, with the advancement of next generation wireless networks. But that spectrum is not going to be able to be put to use unless we have the infrastructure that's necessary for that spectrum to work.
▶ 1:39:44And it's interesting, if you look at the spectrum that's being considered, whether it's 2.7ghz or 4ghz or 7ghz, it's the type of spectrum. As we get further up on the chart, that kind of spectrum actually is going to require more infrastructure than some of the earlier low band spectrum that was used. So it makes the the conversation we're having today about wireless infrastructure even more important to fully realize the benefits of of what congress did, led by this committee with that spectrum pipeline. >> well, thank you.
▶ 1:40:09And I understand that the $42 billion authorized in the inflation reduction act, none was spent over the last three and a half years because of permitting and regulation and processes. And I think people on all sides of the spectrum here in congress wants to make sure that we can have a better process. So we're working that. So, miss paes, your testimony discusses the importance of broadband deployment to ai. And we focus a lot of that here. As you know, it's a top priority of this committee. And I want to make sure we continue to lead.
▶ 1:40:38Do you do we risk our leadership in ai if we don't reform the broadband permitting process? >> thank you, Mr. guthrie. Absolutely. As we all know there, uh, the infrastructure that we're building that we're referring to today as broadband is the heartbeat. It is the entire ecosystem that drives ai development. You have to have connectivity to data centers.
▶ 1:41:08You have to have connectivity to the energy companies. And it is the same infrastructure that's being built. In addition, encompass represents all, uh, parts of the ai and digital ecosystem.
▶ 1:41:22So we have data center providers, we have submarine cable providers of energy generation and transmission companies, and we have the broadband providers and every single type of provider that is deploying infrastructure, whether it's updating existing infrastructure or deploying new infrastructure needs, certain kinds of permits.
▶ 1:41:42And the united states runs the risk that we will fall behind, fall behind adversaries, fall behind china, fall behind other countries. It is not a matter of intellectual property or innovation. We have that here. What we don't have is the permitting process that supports that kind of. >> thanks for saying that. And I just an example. I'm reading a book now. I'm trying to read everything I can. And there's I haven't read it yet.
▶ 1:42:11But the abundance agenda, I think is another book that's out. I haven't read that. I will, uh, but one that says that it took, uh, three years and about a third of the price to build a rail line, a high speed rail. That's the length, the same length in china from san francisco to los angeles. And we have one that we spent about three times the money many years and still only a few sections. And so we want that to work. I'm not here saying, look at california, I, I would love to say, boy, we built that in three. We need to make sure the permitting is right.
▶ 1:42:40We don't want to just do what china does. I'm not suggesting that, but that's who we're competing with. I would like to say we're not we're not competing with european regulation. We're competing with chinese innovation. So we have to do better. So, Mr. spalter, your testimony includes a number of examples of state and local governments abusing the permitting process. And this highlights a federal preemption standard. What could you give us some examples of of that process. >> thank you. Chairman guthrie.
▶ 1:43:08Uh, we believe that, uh, there is a specific and important role for state and local authorities in the permitting process. However, when there are instances where there are impasses, uh, in being able to actually get over the finish line on permitting approvals.
▶ 1:43:31Delays that are not connected to actually reality or operational need, where there simply are intractable impasses and bottlenecks. There has to be a national standard that is, uh, available. We are willing to work with you and the municipalities and states in evolving those standards that will allow for the broadband projects to proceed to completion in this country. We've waited long enough. There are ample examples of how we can actually move forward.
▶ 1:44:02We've suggested, uh, a number of them in our testimony. >> thanks. My time has expired, but I appreciate your answer, and I think we know we'll look at your, uh, we'll we'll follow up and make sure we know what we need to do. So thank you, Mr. chair. And I will yield back. >> uh, the gentleman the chairman has yield. Uh, I now recognize representative carter from louisiana for five minutes. Question. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, it's funny that we're sitting here discussing speed, the ways to speed up connectivity projects today.
▶ 1:44:30Uh, the most significant delay in my home state of louisiana has been the trump administration's rewriting of policies for broadband deployment funds. In january of this year, louisiana became the first state in the nation to secure federal approval for our plan to deploy $1.3 billion in in speed funding. That was we were ready, the state was ready. It had shovels in the ground, ready to go, uh, in the ground.
▶ 1:45:00In march, however, this was stopped. Unfortunately, the trump administration's overhaul of the program has upended these years of planning, forcing states like louisiana to scrap their work and to start all over again.
▶ 1:45:14The administration's program changes, prioritize short term cost savings in the interest of elon musk over durable, future proof connectivity, leaving millions at risk of being locked into a second tier technology.
▶ 1:45:30Louisiana now faces new procedural hurdles that will further delay broadband expansion, forcing us to wait again on federal approvals and hoping the administration doesn't move the goalposts again once we get close to completion. Mr. garner, louisiana's original bid plan would have used 95% high speed fiber to connect underserved areas with broadband.
▶ 1:45:54Now, the state's new plan uses just 80% fiber and communities like assumption parish in my district, in webster parish in the speaker's district, will now instead have. Elon musk's starlink. What does this change mean for these areas in the long term? Will there be just as well served? Or has or would they have been better with high speed fiber? >> thank you for the question. It means they will fall behind in the long term.
▶ 1:46:23And also note that it will likely. >> say that again, they'll fall behind in the long term. We're going to go from a better product to a inferior product. >> we are shifting them from a better product that would last for forever, basically, to a product that will not barely meet the needs of today, much less those of the future. >> so let me I want to make sure I'm getting this right.
▶ 1:46:47If the state had sufficient funding within the bead allocation for fiber, is there any legitimate justification to force the state to use an inferior broadband technology? >> there is not. And I would note, too, that while they while 80% of the locations in louisiana have fiber, now, that number is likely to come down as ntia institutes another round of fiber cuts. >> going further in the wrong direction.
▶ 1:47:16>> going further in the wrong direction. >> I'm particularly concerned with the non-deployment funds, as a governor sent a letter to the trump administration urging it to allow states to use these funds. Louisiana's original plan included the use of using $100 million in non-deployment funds to improve access to telehealth in rural areas, with limited nearby medical facilities.
▶ 1:47:39These funds would have been transformative, especially now as republicans big ugly bill will cause more rural hospitals and clinics to close. Mr. garner, isn't it true that the bipartisan infrastructure law explicitly approved the use of non-deployment funds? >> yes. >> what other investments would be missing in louisiana if the trump administration illegally tries to claw back these funds?
▶ 1:48:06>> telehealth workforce development, I preparation, cybersecurity, the list goes on and on. >> all things that my my colleagues on the other side of the aisle any given day really kind of pledges their support for I, uh, security, making sure we have telehealth in our rural areas for people who undoubtedly are going to lose access to, uh, health clinics because of the drastic cuts, some 17 million people taking off the roads, are we heading in the right direction there?
▶ 1:48:38>> no. It's setting us in the wrong direction today and setting us to fail in the future. >> so what happens now when, uh, if we're using an inferior product? You mentioned earlier when these people when when these companies go into an area where there won't be competition, if they have an inferior product, they're going to kind of be stuck with it, right? Yes. No competition. No one comes in. You've got a product that doesn't work. No one's coming in to challenge it.
▶ 1:49:05People are at a position where they're being charged more for less product. >> and no opportunities on the horizon to fix it. >> so we've gone from nothing to worse. Arguably. >> arguably. >> I yield. >> the gentleman yields, uh, now we'll call on representative dunn from florida for his five minutes of questioning. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:49:34I think congress must take an all of government approach to quickly administering solutions for broadband permitting reform. The 29 permitting reform bills that we're discussing today are crucial for building broadband capabilities. And while we've been moving the needle towards bipartisan reforms over the last decade, the iron is hot. Now.
▶ 1:49:56If we want to continue dominance on a global scale, we must follow through for our communications industry, national security and american families. Luckily, we've succeeded this year in a few major ways. We delivered a huge win for the american people with the one big, beautiful bill unleashing 800mhz of spectrum and securing major tax extension benefits to assist the industry in achieving those goals.
▶ 1:50:24However, the third leg of the stool is that we need to follow through on these permitting promises by enacting this reform. Without this reform, none of the infrastructure needed to connect americans will be made a reality.
▶ 1:50:38The gao reported that from 2015 to 20, federal programs have invested at least $44 billion in activities to support broadband and more recently, the infrastructure investment and jobs act appropriated $65 billion for several broadband programs, including the ntia bead program. Uh.
▶ 1:51:02However, one of the most prominent permitting actions we've taken was in 2018 when congress passed the mobile now act, which established a 270 day deadline. A shot clock, if you will, for executive agencies to grant or deny applications for easements, rights of way or leases to install constructor modified communications facilities on federal property.
▶ 1:51:28Further, a 2018 executive order required gsa to issue quarterly reports on the applications to place communication facilities on federal properties. The 270 days seems like an exorbitant amount of time to replace critical infrastructure after, say, a hurricane or natural disaster.
▶ 1:51:50We're talking about replacing my bill, the connecting communities post-disaster act would help resolve these permitting hurdles, not to mention this timeline. It's frightening when you have to compete with china. According to the gao, from 2018 to 22, the two agencies that that, uh, processed the most applications from telecoms providers, uh, were the bureau of land management and the usda,
▶ 1:52:21Only 50% of their applications met the 270 day deadline. That's unacceptable for the united states. Uh, and I'm confident that we have solutions in these bills today, Mr. chairman, to address a lot of these pitfalls. Mr. hawley, several times throughout your testimony, you mentioned how the fcc succeeded in enacting rulemaking for shot clocks for permitting at the state and local level.
▶ 1:52:46Can you explain what these shot clocks are and how which ones of these rulemakings have been most successful, most effective? And if you want to comment on our legislative package today, I'd love to hear it. >> sure. Well, first I would say thank you very much for the legislation that you proposed. I think, uh, we should always want to move as quickly as we can after a disaster to get infrastructure replaced.
▶ 1:53:09And interestingly enough, um, when we're talking about replacing infrastructure that's been destroyed by a disaster, that infrastructure had already gone through a process previously. That's why it was deployed. So I think it's a perfect example of of our principles around predictability and proportionality. When we're talking about adding to or replacing infrastructure that had been previously approved by a local or federal agency, it doesn't make sense that we should have the same amount of of delay and timelines for, for replacing something that was previously approved.
▶ 1:53:39That's a really important piece. >> yeah, I agree entirely with that, obviously. I mean, you've already permitted it once. Uh, your associations active in the telecom apprenticeship program, uh, states like ohio have those programs. Have you had conversations with florida's broadband office, and can you give us any advice on where you know, how we're helping our workforce? Uh, what's it what's it look like in my state colleges and universities?
▶ 1:54:04>> uh, we've absolutely had discussions with your state broadband office and some of the higher education institutions in your state. The state's definitely leaning in very hard on ways that we can effectively train the workforce that's necessary to deploy the networks of not just today, but the networks of tomorrow. And I do think it's really important that we not just look at this as a permitting issue, but also as an opportunity to provide the funding for the programs that really will train the workforce. We all need to get the job done. >> thank you so much.
▶ 1:54:34You know, we welcome you the second district of florida, where we have colleges that'll train these people. Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields. Now, I'll call on representative menendez from new jersey. Questions? Five minutes. >> thank you. Chairman, I'd like to start off with addressing an issue that is critical to the telecommunications and media landscape of the united states and the oversight duties of this committee.
▶ 1:54:57The attack on the freedom of the press from the trump administration, specifically fcc chairman brendan carr, is unconstitutional and completely unacceptable. We started this with the chair of the subcommittee saying that we didn't want to weigh in on this, but our colleagues across the aisle have and they've introduced into the record letters written by members of the legislature, uh, to media outlets asking a series of oversight questions to compare that to the fcc chairman using
▶ 1:55:27His power to force broadcasters into the action that the president wants by threatening to block their multibillion dollar media mergers, is not even comparable. And that should be obvious to everyone in this room, especially because we have an oversight function over the fcc, the main federal entity that regulates telecom.
▶ 1:55:47So if we're going to sit here and try to call balls and strikes, the republicans on the other side of the aisle have to do it because they know if this was the biden administration taking this action, if it was a democratic fcc chair, they would be up in arms like we are because it's completely unacceptable, and I hope that they will speak out against it, because to say that what those legislators did is the same as what the president, the fcc chair did is completely unhinged.
▶ 1:56:15Turning to the topic of today's hearing, we should all be able to agree that we need to expand access to high speed, affordable broadband across the country in order for americans to fully participate in the digital economy. This is an issue that affects both blue and red states in rural and urban communities alike. But while we've heard from both sides of the aisle today about the need to roll out broadband connectivity in a timely manner, the trump administration and my republican colleagues have taken numerous actions that hinder connectivity and drive up broadband costs for american families. Mr.
▶ 1:56:45Garner, just yes or no. Did republicans refusal to extend the affordable connectivity program make broadband more expensive and less accessible for american families? >> yes. >> thank you, Mr. garner. Will the trump administration slashing of the federal workforce slow the rollout of broadband across the country? >> yes. >> thank you. So, Mr. garner, just again, yes or no, will republican will republican laps in the affordable connectivity program?
▶ 1:57:11Combined with the trump administration's slashing of the federal workforce, reduce access to high speed, affordable broadband? >> yes. >> and we agree that we've talked about artificial intelligence a significant amount today. It's in a lot of your testimony. We also talked about it here on nc. Uh, miss pies, will more energy be needed to meet the increased demand for artificial intelligence? >> yes, absolutely. >> and just yes or no. Do you believe that to meet that energy demand, we should have an all the above strategies.
▶ 1:57:40We put as much energy as possible onto our grid. >> yes. >> and now we've heard that from from witnesses across multiple different hearings that we need an all of the above strategy when it comes to energy, because that is what ai demands. The data centers were already seeing. It could be up to a 12% of energy demand in the next several years. Could be ai data centers alone. And now all of our residents are dealing with the cost of energy prices, no matter what state we're in.
▶ 1:58:07Yet, this administration is not taking in all the above strategy. They're picking winners and losers, and they're cutting off access to offshore wind because they when I say they the trump administration doesn't believe in it. We've had people from the department of energy who have come in here and not want to acknowledge the benefit of renewable energy, despite the fact that in places like texas, we've seen that 30% of their energy production comes from wind and solar.
▶ 1:58:32And that's why texas residents are seeing lower costs in their energy prices. So going back to today's hearing, which is as difficult as it is to do with everything going on, republicans are claiming to be hyper focused on expediting access to reliable connectivity, while at the same time taking concrete steps that significantly decrease the number of people that have access to broadband. By refusing to take in all the above energy approach, slashing federal workforce and cutting funding for affordable broadband, Mr.
▶ 1:59:00Garner is promoting digital literacy initiatives such as cybersecurity trainings for seniors, vital for expanding access to broadband connectivity. >> absolutely. >> because we want more people to have it. But we've also seen a huge rise in spam and scams that specifically target veterans and seniors. Is that correct? >> yes, yes it is. >> and these these digital literacy initiatives help those people be prepared for the future that we all are going to be a part of. Is that correct?
▶ 1:59:29>> that was the point of the bill. >> Mr. gardner. Will the trump administration's decision to cancel over $2 billion from the digital equity act decrease access to the internet? It will. So what are we doing here today? Do we need permitting reform to make broadband more accessible? We can work on that in a bipartisan way, but we have to do it in a holistic way, and we have to have our colleagues across the aisle call out the administration when they are setting us back. Democrats will continue to do it. We'll hold the administration accountable, especially if our colleagues will not.
▶ 1:59:56Thank you, and I yield back. >> the gentleman yields. And now I will call on Mr. future might hold for his five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And to the to the panelists. Thank you for your feedback today. And Mr. hawley, Mr. spalter, both of you referenced the 270 day shot clock and some of the examples of how agencies have failed to meet that time window. And I my information confirms what you have been saying.
▶ 2:00:24In fact, I'm going to give you a couple more examples. In my home state of idaho, cambridge telephone company tells me that they have have projects that still take somewhere between 2 and 4 years to get through permitting. And there was a particular tower process or a tower build request for, uh, brundage ski mountain. It's a resort area about two hours from boise. And, uh, that was delayed.
▶ 2:00:52They they found some things in their, uh, I think it was three endangered whitebark pine trees. And despite very reasonable mitigation, uh, solutions, that project basically just got halted. It did take my office to, to break the stall on that, but it was also a three year delay.
▶ 2:01:13And so there's just another example, another one in midvale, idaho, communications had a project stall do the need for multiple nepa studies, nepa requirements, and that was simply because they were trying to run a conduit and a and a fiber cable about 100ft from a roadway on federal land. So once again, those are just some of the examples out there. And I've got a this is I'm going to ask both Mr. spalter, Mr. hawley this but I've got a bill, h.r.
▶ 2:01:442298, the reducing barriers for broadband on federal lands act. And this would eliminate the need for multiple nepa or nepa reviews on previously disturbed federal land, which is a huge deal in my state. In the west, about two thirds of the landmass in my state are federal. And this would this would eliminate the need for multiple nepa.
▶ 2:02:03Or excuse me reviews on previously disturbed land, and it would exercise a right of way provision to provide broadband infrastructure on these federal lands. And so I would just ask you from your vantage point, wireless broadband, would legislation like this help in expediting the permitting process, in your view? And I'll start with Mr. spaulding. >> let me begin. Absolutely. Uh, Mr.
▶ 2:02:29Pfluger, I will say that that is the kind of innovation that we need to move forward aggressively in our plans to deliver broadband. Uh, we know conclusively that the great majority of permitting delays are on areas where they're always already have been previously analyzed and approved. Right. Uh, rights of way. And that includes on federal lands. We believe that a very straightforward shot clock formula and a deem granted approach, 30 days and 60 days is a path forward.
▶ 2:02:57We support your effort in your bill, and we want to see across the finish line. >> Mr. >> for the question, I agree. We also support your legislation. We think it's important, uh, that there's a process where, again, we're not starting from scratch. Right? This is projects have already been approved previously. We shouldn't treat a project after that as if we're starting from scratch, which is what your bill recognizes. The thing I'll tell you is I get a lot of calls from tower company ceos.
▶ 2:03:26And when we're talking about access to federal lands, the most challenges they have are out in the west, whether it's idaho, utah, arizona, new mexico, those are some of the hardest areas to build. And unfortunately, uh, it's some of the areas where we have the least coverage and where it takes the longest to get something permitted on federal lands. So I appreciate you looking into the issue. >> that's where the bulk of those federal lands are. And we we live that in my state every day. So thank you for that. Miss pies, in your testimony, you noted the need for a unified approach.
▶ 2:03:54I notified that terminology for permitting broadband on federal lands to try to cut through the. The continued lack of coordination. Also, former uh, ntia administrator davidson spoke of a he actually framed as a as a federal lands management desk was a term that he had used. And I would just I would just ask you to to speak for a moment.
▶ 2:04:17Uh, would simplifying the ntia decision making process by helping local broadband providers get more predictability? Would would that simplification process help? Could you speak to that for a moment? >> yes, absolutely. And that's not just about federal lands. We have a streamlined process, more transparency, less duplication, and something that we haven't talked a lot about yet today. But the use of technology and there there are several bills that address this to facilitate the permitting process.
▶ 2:04:46It's going to ensure that we can build faster, that we aren't wasting precious capital, whether it's seed funding or private capital, and that consumers and businesses get access to the technology. And I think that if we look at all of those types of actions, you're not going to find a trade off with protecting the environment or with ensuring that consumers have access to the broadband that they deserved. It's going to achieve all those goals simultaneously.
▶ 2:05:16>> is there a concern about sticking with you, miss miss pies? Is there a concern about losing bead money if these permitting requests take too long? >> is I'm. >> is there a concern about losing the bead money, the access to the funds, if the permits take too long? >> there's a concern that the money will not be used efficiently.
▶ 2:05:36Bead has very strict deadlines for deployment, and if you can't get a permit in order to deploy during that time period, I actually don't know what happens. Um, you could have to return. >> it may not be there. Yeah. So. Okay. Good. Thank you. So broadband providers that I communicate with also see disconnects between local and the agency management location.
▶ 2:06:04So for example district rangers uh, may have uh, certain uh position that they want to take, but yet they've got to run it through an agency head someplace. And I would just ask, uh, how can we improve communications between, say, the local and the and the management, the ranger and the the agency had some work. Can you speak to that at all? >> yes, absolutely. I mean, that is a streamlined process. That's the hallmark of a streamlined process.
▶ 2:06:30If we have a process that everybody can look to, whether it's the head of the agency or the local jurisdiction, and they understand what the process is. And when you have technical, um, digital portals that can be utilized. And today we even have I programs that can facilitate that, then it's going to reduce misunderstandings, it's going to increase efficiency, and it's going to ensure that we are using our well earned capital to be able to deploy.
▶ 2:07:01>> thank you that for that, I and I, Mr. chairman, I apologize. I'm over time and I yield back. >> thank the gentleman. The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from virginia, miss mcclellan, for five minutes for your questions. >> uh, thank you, Mr. chair. Uh, as we all agree, the bee program was the largest investment, uh, federal investment in our nation's broadband infrastructure in american history. And throughout the year, including in today's hearing, uh, the majority has bemoaned the timeline for implementation of the b program to now falsely blaming.
▶ 2:07:29Permitting is one of the reasons for delays so far. Um, but I think you would all agree, hopefully, that you can't seek permits until you determine where you're going to build the infrastructure and who's going to build it. And the way, um, to ensure that you're not going to use federal money in a way that is wasteful is to first identify who the unserved populations are, what's already in the pipeline, and create a map. You all agree with that, right? >> well.
▶ 2:08:00>> if I understood you correctly, congresswoman, I would say that there are providers that have already undertaken efforts to get permits, even if they're not. >> that's not my question. Yes, yes or no? You would agree that you would agree that before you ever get a permit to build a broadband infrastructure, you need to decide where you're going to build. >> yes. >> yes, yes. >> okay. >> thank you. >> now I want to ask a couple more table setting questions.
▶ 2:08:28Do you all agree, yes or no, that federally funded broadband networks should be scalable and reliable and able to meet both current and future broadband needs of consumers and businesses? >> yes, yes. Yes, absolutely. >> do you all agree there is no one size fits all technology capable of meeting the ever increasing upload and download needs of consumers in all geographies, at the same level, at the same cost? >> yes. Yes, absolutely.
▶ 2:09:00>> and that's who encompass represents. >> yes. >> thank you. >> do you agree that the segments of the country that are not currently connected by their very nature are more expensive to connect or more difficult to connect because of geography or other factors? And if they could be connected using a least cost model, they'd already be connected. Now without federal funding. >> yeah. Yes. >> did you ask if they would already be connected today. >> without federal funding? Yes.
▶ 2:09:30>> in some instances, yes. >> okay. Thank you. And yes. All right. >> thank you. >> for that. Table setting. >> um, with the june restructuring notice, ntia made clear that it would prioritize lowest cost bids over long term connectivity in an attempt to root out so-called waste, fraud and abuse. Um, Mr. gardner, I particularly appreciate your testimony underscoring that permitting is simply a process. But scalable and reliable connectivity is the actual ultimate goal.
▶ 2:09:59Um, we have seen how badly a cheap approach can go. Virginia stands to lose about $82 million in federal funding due to grant award winners who defaulted in the rural digital opportunity fund and walked away from their commitment because they didn't have the capacity to fill those needs. Mr. gardner, can you share some of the other lessons the trump administration should have learned the last time it chose to prioritize lowest cost bids, rather than long term service quality?
▶ 2:10:29>> yeah, designing a broadband infrastructure grant program around a race to the bottom bidding process is not a way to get high quality broadband networks to our most vulnerable communities. That's what we learned in, and that is what they are turning more towards. >> and what communities will pay the price and be hit the hardest. If these projects are delayed any further or not built at. >> all.
▶ 2:10:54>> they will not get the same sort of broadband that we enjoy, the broadband that is needed to thrive today and in the future. >> and would you all agree that, uh, if broadband is physically available, available but not affordable, it is not available for our consumers? >> absolutely. If you can't afford it, you don't have it.
▶ 2:11:18>> I disagree okay, um, with the affordable connectivity project gone and the universal service fund on an unsustainable trajectory, and now the trump administration gutting the low cost service option under b, uh, Mr. garner, without a clear strategy to keep service affordable, how do we ensure that no household or small business is left behind, even when the broadband infrastructure physically reaches their communities?
▶ 2:11:44>> we have severely limited tools now because we have lost the acp and the affordability requirements. Indeed. Um, so we need to build new ones. >> but may I address that? >> yes. >> one thing I think we should also acknowledge is the best thing we can do is make this the most competitive communications marketplace possible.
▶ 2:12:05And one of the benefits of permitting and the importance of this hearing is that if we do get permitting right, you will get more wireless infrastructure deployed, you will have more wireless connectivity, the technology that's driving competition in the marketplace today and mobile marketplace is wireless connectivity. So we should talk about, you know, subsidy programs. And we should look at usf reform as the bipartisan working group is doing.
▶ 2:12:28But we should also focus on policies that make sure the $30 billion annually that the wireless industry invests is put to use as quickly and efficiently as possible. And that's why permitting reform actually does matter for the affordability question, because it creates more competition. More competition brings prices down. So it's I think we need to look at it very holistically. >> and my time is expired. But I do just want to say we need to look at it holistically. And so while permitting reform is part of the problem, I think we've touched on reliability. Connectivity and affordability are also equally important.
▶ 2:12:58If we're going to leave no community behind. And with that, unfortunately, I have to yield back. Yield back my time. >> thank the gentlelady. And I recognize the gentleman from texas, Mr. pfluger, for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Important topic.
▶ 2:13:11Uh, one that I hope will be bipartisan, that we can stay focused on, um, this congress, I'm leading the federal broadband deployment tracking act with congressman soto to improve transparency and efficiency in the broadband deployment process and our legislation, which unanimously passed the house last year, would require the ntia to submit a comprehensive plan to congress detailing how they will track permit applications to deploy on federal lands, which are essential for accessing easements and rights of way to build and maintain telecommunications.
▶ 2:13:40So a couple of questions here. I'll start with Mr. spalter, can you help underscore the need for this legislation specifically, uh, provide maybe some examples of where one of your member companies had crews ready, equipment purchased and federal funds allocated, but the project was delayed simply because a permit sat on somebody's desk. >> in north central ohio is one example where we've had crews ready, uh, spools deployed, forward deployed, ready to go.
▶ 2:14:08But we've been waiting and waiting and waiting for permits, particularly from a railroad line. California. We've seen multiple situations. One recently, 656 locations, uh, failed to be able to be served because of delays where our crews and our infrastructure and our capital was on the line waiting for, uh, approvals that never came. And so the, uh, provider decided they had to go walk. Uh, this is, uh, outrageous.
▶ 2:14:37It needs to be actually fixed. And your bill in a particularly in driving forward efficiencies on 4 to 99 applications, is one of the many ways forward. It also requires a whole of government approach. We're really grateful that ntia has undertaken its broadband task force to to regularize how we can work across agencies, but its initiatives and innovations like your legislation that are going to get us there. >> thank you very much.
▶ 2:15:03Miss pai is applying for a permit to deploy broadband on federal land. Can be lengthy. Frustrating, as we just heard. Uh, how can we improve the process of getting a permit to deploy, uh, on federal lands? >> thank you for the question. I absolutely do believe that your bill would be an improvement.
▶ 2:15:18As I mentioned recently, the utilization of technology, whether it's online tools, uh, digital portal, the use of ai driven software can make that process much more efficient and much more effective. And some of the proposals that you have in your legislation would absolutely solve that piece of the puzzle. >> um, thank you very much, Mr. hawley. Do you have anything to add on the wireless side?
▶ 2:15:47>> yeah, I want to associate myself with both of the comments that they just made on the wireless context as well. And I really do appreciate the legislation that you've put forward. Uh, because we do need to have increased coordination across agencies and, frankly, increased coordination between agencies and industry. Uh, so whether it's legislation, uh, like yours, which would require that coordination or the development of portals to improve the technology that the agencies use, it's all very important.
▶ 2:16:12I was talking to one of our members earlier this week, and they were telling me about a project on the bureau of reclamation land in california with the state historic preservation officer. Uh, about two and a half years ago approved, uh, their plan to move forward. Two and a half years later, they're still waiting for approval from the bureau of reclamation. That's not acceptable. >> no, it's no wonder the frustration is so high when you have to compete against the government. Um, you know, not at the speed of commerce.
▶ 2:16:40Um, the trump administration and ntia has recent benefits and bargain round has streamlined the program and has removed unnecessary regulations which have lowered the cost of the of bead by tens of billions of dollars. Miss pies could enacting the bills before us today further create savings for bead? >> yes.
▶ 2:17:00I think to the extent that the permitting process is streamlined, that we remove inefficiencies, that we create greater transparency and, um, ensure that agencies are working from the same database of information. The broadband provider can cut costs and save money. One thing that I think is a little bit difficult to assess is when a broadband provider is seeking to be a sub grantee, they have to submit their costs in advance.
▶ 2:17:30So to the extent that they understand where those efficiencies can be gained, it can improve the process overall. >> thank you very much. Mr. chairman. Just occurred to me, you know, we've had a little bit of a talk of freedom of speech. Um, and, uh, I just had a opportunity to meet with some veterans who on both sides of the aisle are calling for unity after this, uh, the tragedy.
▶ 2:17:54Um, and so instead of, you know, being here talking about, um, you know, just continuing to add to the nonsense, uh, they're actually doing something about it. It'd be nice, uh, if everyone would do that. And there is a difference between freedom of speech and a company's right to terminate employment with somebody for insensitive remarks, which I think is really important. So I appreciate your leadership. Uh, on everything. And especially having this hearing, I yield back.
▶ 2:18:22I thank the gentleman and I apologize to our witnesses. There are two roll call votes on the house floor. Uh, time has expired, so we're going to need to rush down. Um, so the committee will stand in recess until ten minutes after the last roll call. Vote is called.
▶ 3:11:33And I will call on, uh, representative carter from the great state of georgia for his five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And thank you all for enduring this. And, uh, and hanging around. We appreciate you being here very much. Look, one of my top priorities is to close the digital divide. I represent the coast of georgia and a lot of my district in south georgia. We have a saying in georgia, there are two georgia's. There's atlanta and everywhere else. Well, I represent everywhere else. And we need to close that digital divide.
▶ 3:12:02And we need to have affordable and reliable connectivity. Another priority of mine is helping the us maintain the leadership on broadband and on wireless innovation. And and that's very important as well. You know, the past four years under the biden administration, there's been a disaster for broadband development. Our deployment and expansion throughout america. And we're trying to fix that.
▶ 3:12:27This congress, I reintroduced a proportional reviews for broadband deployment act, which expedites the process for certain modifications to wireless towers or base stations. No need for us to go through the entire process every time. If you're just doing some minor adjustments or minor changes. Specifically, it exempts the addition, removal, or replacement of transmission equipment on those towers or stations from environmental and historic preservation reviews. Mr.
▶ 3:12:53Hawley, um, let me ask you, should these simple modifications require a lengthy review process? Uh. >> Mr. carter, they should not. And I want to thank you for your leadership. Not only this congress, but last congress on recognizing the importance of having rules and regulations that are predictable, proportionate and transparent. And what your bill recognizes is that when infrastructure has already been cited and you're making a modification to it or an upgrade, we shouldn't have to start from scratch. That just doesn't make any sense.
▶ 3:13:24>> well, I appreciate that. You know, we I have a lot of businesses come into a lot of business leaders come into my office and and regardless of what sector of our economy they're talking about, whether it be health care, technology or energy, it's always the same thing. And permitting regulations crushing us, crushing us. And they want that certainty, that certainty that you're talking about. That's what they want. What let me ask you as a follow up, Mr. hawley, how long is the average timeline until completion for one of these permitting reviews?
▶ 3:13:55And how would this legislation improve the quality and timeliness of of broadband deployment in america? >> so that really depends honestly on which jurisdiction or which federal agency you're working with. What I what I'll say is the good news is over the last decade, local communities and local governments understand the importance of having that connectivity. So overall, we have a pretty productive partnership with local governments.
▶ 3:14:18Um, but there are times, for example, there's I was talking to one of our members earlier yesterday, uh, about delays in accounting in california, where on average things are taking 12 to 18 months for a single site review. And that's just way too long for infrastructure that that community needs. >> and that's why we're trying to put stop clocks on some of these things and trying to expedite the process. We want to make sure it's done right, and we want to make sure that, you know, we want the autonomy of the local governments.
▶ 3:14:45But come on, this is this is important and it's it's needed immediately. We need to get this this done. Are there any types of barriers that are unique to wireless facilities compared to wire to wireless broadband when it comes, or wireline broadband when it comes to permitting? Are there any big differences? >> well, it's a different type of infrastructure when you're talking about a tower or a small cell compared to deploying fiber, it's a different type of project.
▶ 3:15:13I think there are a lot of commonalities, though, and one of the things that I think is, uh, really great about the bills that are being considered by this committee today is it recognizes the difference for different types of projects. So, for example, when we're modifying an existing structure, for example, the shot clock, there is 60 days when we're talking about, um, shot clock on a brand new build where we haven't previously deployed. It's a longer period. That makes sense, right?
▶ 3:15:37It's a proportional perspective where the the amount of time where local governments get is, is commensurate to the type of project that's being deployed. And that makes total sense. >> so nepa and and also the the national historic preservation act, they've seemed to become quite problematic. And when when you're trying to navigate the the the permit approval process, how can we how can we streamline nepa and the national historic preservation act?
▶ 3:16:05>> I think it goes back to a recognition, again, of the principles that we've been advocating for about proportionality, predictability, transparency. Um, you know, we do have, um, requirements under nepa and nepa for environmental and historic review, and we understand what that process looks like. But again, I think we need to make sure that we don't have the same processes that can sometimes take make a project go from what should be months to years.
▶ 3:16:30Uh, when we're talking about rules that apply to, uh, a new build again versus something that's already been approved, if we've already disturbed the ground, if we've already done the historical review in the first place for a project, we certainly shouldn't have to do it again when we're just modifying an existing structure. And a lot of these bills recognize that. I think it's. >> important, and I appreciate that. And being from savannah, georgia, let me tell you, I know all about historical reviews. Thank you all. And thank you very much. And I yield back, Mr. chairman. >> the gentleman yields.
▶ 3:16:58Now I will call on doctor joyce from pennsylvania for his five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you, ranking member matsui, for allowing me to join in this important hearing. Even in a time of technological innovation and advancement, people across this great land remain unfortunately, unconnected. Broadband deployment is hindered by burdensome regulations and processes that leave people without that necessary access.
▶ 3:17:28In the district that I represent in pennsylvania, rural areas lack broadband coverage, and it is critical that we in congress work to expedite broadband permitting to bridge that digital divide that rural communities face each and every day. Last week, I introduced h.r. 5002 73, the broadband competition and efficient deployment act.
▶ 3:17:51This legislation would remove the requirement to prepare an environmental or historic preservation review in order to add or upgrade wireline facilities. These unnecessary review requirements are just one of the examples of barriers that can delay or even prevent broadband deployment. Mr.
▶ 3:18:14Spalter, in your testimony, you referenced several instances of environmental and historical reviews delaying broadband deployment projects. Sometimes, unfortunately, by years. Would you please speak to the impact that removing this requirement would have on the deployment efforts, particularly in rural areas like the one that I serve, which are so underachieving when it comes to connectivity?
▶ 3:18:40>> thank you, congressman joyce, not only for your leadership in this bill, but also for your leaning in with innovation and force on making sure that we can address railroad rights of ways in reasonable, thoughtful ways. Look, we absolutely believe in a couple of principles that are embedded in your bill. One is that we have to be able to have improved processes, including deduplication. Second is we have to have what we've talked about earlier, which is certainty.
▶ 3:19:09We have to have clear timelines that are acceptable, uh, to consumers, to your constituents to be able to deliver that broadband without undue, uh, intractable delay. And third, we have to have national, uh, baseline standards that when there are rare instances of impasses between state and local authorities and those seeking permits, there can be essentially a a last ditch recourse that we can refer to
▶ 3:19:40At a national level. So we appreciate your initiative and we really do support your work. >> thank you very much. You brought up Mr. spalter, the barrier that providers face in getting broadband to the other side of railroad tracks, due to the long process that delays service to rural and suburban communities.
▶ 3:19:57I am the grandson of railroad workers, and in this congress, I plan to introduce the broadband and telecommunications rail act, legislation that would streamline the process of broadband infrastructure and an intersection between the right, the public right of way, and a rail corridor. The rail connected people in generations. In the past. Connections need to continue and we need to be able to work together.
▶ 3:20:23Miss pies, can you explain the problems that providers face in deploying broadband with the public right of way, intersects with that of a rail corridor? Is the current notification and application process efficient for broadband providers? >> the current process is not efficient. Excuse me.
▶ 3:20:42For broadband providers to be able to cross railways where the public right of way intersects with the railway, the provider should be able to provide notification to the railway, railway and have the authority to be able to access the right of way from the local jurisdiction using standard engineering techniques as well as safety standards, should be able to cross the railway with that notification process. >> so connection at another level is what you're telling me.
▶ 3:21:13Just as the rail provided the connection from community to community, broadband has those capabilities of doing it today. So what are the challenges because of the fees that the railroads provide, uh, that intersect, that stop this connectivity from occurring? >> the fees are a significant problem, and I appreciate you highlighting that.
▶ 3:21:32It's often the case that the railway will, um, notify our broadband providers that a specific fee is due and there's no connection to safety or the actual cost to the railway for that fee. That creates additional costs for the broadband provider, which in many ways creates a deterrent. And in some instances you're going to have broadband providers plan their network so that they don't have to cross the railway.
▶ 3:22:01>> we don't need any additional deterrence in rural areas. We have to be able to address this. And as we work to address broadband permitting and deployment, it is essential that we make every effort to streamline the process, remove burdensome regulations, and ensure that broadband is deployed quickly. The broadband competition and efficient deployment act will remove unnecessary review requirements so that we can take a step in the right direction.
▶ 3:22:26I look forward to introducing and working with railroads, with providers and other stakeholders on the rail act to ensure that this process is fair, that it is efficient, and that is effective for all that are involved. We must work together towards solutions that expedite permitting to bring broadband infrastructure to every single americans. Thank you for being here. Thank you, Mr. chairman, and I yield back. >> thank you.
▶ 3:22:53>> the gentleman yields now recognized as representative landsman from ohio for five minutes of questioning. >> uh, thank you, chairman, ranking member and Mr. joyce, before he gets out of here, thank you for your leadership on on this bill. Uh, this is a really important bill. And, uh, you know, I'm glad that you all are here, uh, testifying on the need of for permitting reform.
▶ 3:23:19I just so folks that are watching, um, and are trying to figure out what this is all about, the railroad piece is, I think, one of the more simple, uh, you know, easier pieces to do. There are some, you know, questions that we still have around, uh, labor and existing cbas.
▶ 3:23:37But if a broadband company is trying to get broadband out to communities and they happen to, you know, come across, uh, a railroad, you know, where the right of way, the public right of way crosses, uh, the private, uh, railroad property.
▶ 3:23:59Uh, we should be able to move forward with the broadband and our broadband providers, uh, should not be facing the kind of obstacles they face. Now, this is one of not the core reasons, but one of the reasons why we're struggling to get broadband to the places we need to get it.
▶ 3:24:19I'm a big believer that we, as a united states congress and as a country, have to adopt a broadband everywhere policy, uh, where we appreciate just how critical access to the internet and broadband is. Uh, and, you know, I would love anyone, um, miss pies, maybe you could start us off, could you? And this is along the same lines as is, uh, doctor joyce.
▶ 3:24:48But if you could just talk a little bit about what obstacles describing the obstacles that broadband, uh, you know, company faces now, when they reach that point, uh, at that intersection and what this bill would do, uh, to remove those obstacles. >> yes. Thank you for that question. We appreciate your support for the principles in the legislation as well.
▶ 3:25:13Encompass providers very often have to cross railroads more often in rural areas of the country. And as we discussed already, not being able to cross the railroad in a reasonable period of time or at a cost that reflects the actual cost, creates another digital divide and defeats your goal of bringing broadband everywhere.
▶ 3:25:35Excuse me, these problems exist in railways around the country, not just in a single location, and the costs are often not linked to actual. I'm sorry, the price being charged is often not linked to actual costs.
▶ 3:25:52I think one thing that's really important for everybody to remember is that being able to cross the railroad and pay actual costs is not exclusive of focus on safety and focus on the workforce.
▶ 3:26:07We can have all those things at once, and having guidelines and having the fcc in the position of being able to establish those cost guidelines makes the process easier and helps us achieve the goal of broadband everywhere. >> thank you. Yeah. >> well, first, I'd like to thank you, Mr.
▶ 3:26:29Landsman, for your bipartisan agreement that this is something that we can join nationally to get more broadband to where it's needed, uh, by streamlining, permitting, with respect to our railroad, our railroad rights of ways, we will be able to accomplish that. And your your bill actually provides a pathway for us to do so.
▶ 3:26:49Oftentimes, it's not just that we're getting prices for fees that are unmoored to reality or linked to safety, but we're also getting situations where there's indifference and indifference that causes delays. Sometimes in months. >> they don't care. It's not it's not top of mind for them. >> or or to profit center. >> yeah. >> so thank you for your, uh, initiative. And, uh, we are going to do whatever we can to support your work. >> thank you. Anyone else?
▶ 3:27:15All right, I just, um, uh, you know, I appreciate, uh, the work that Mr. joyce has put into this, and and he really is a leader. Uh, on permitting reform. Again, our only question is existing cbas and making sure those are protected. But, uh, you know, hopefully this will get done. Thank you, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields. Now, I call on, uh, representative of.
▶ 3:27:48Of north dakota. Stumbles over your five minutes of questioning. >> but dorchak is right. You got it. >> did I get that right? Yep. >> okay. Dorchak. >> dorchak. >> yep. Thank you. Uh, thank you all for your attention and your time today. Appreciate your leadership on these issues. And you're sticking with us through kind of a herky jerky hearing schedule today. Um, I'm pleased to be here before you to talk about the cable expansion act and other legislation relating to permitting reform and this important space.
▶ 3:28:18Um, september 30th is a deadline that a lot of us here are focused on in terms of budget discussions. Uh, it's also another interesting deadline. It is the day the old aol dial up internet sound will retire. And I mentioned that because if you remember and I see some nodding heads of remembrance, uh, even some of the young folks here, if you don't remember.
▶ 3:28:46But what we think about when we think of that dial tone is how slow the internet was. And, uh, and so I think it's important to use that as a trigger that, you know, we have made leaps and bounds in the technology since those days of that old aol, aol, dial tone for internet connection.
▶ 3:29:05I we've got 5g, we've got so many advances, but our permitting process is still stuck in the old, like, aol dial tone kind of mentality. We're so stuck in that, and we have to bring our permitting processes up to the modern age and to meet the demands of the time that we're in right now where we need to get this infrastructure out quickly.
▶ 3:29:32So I'm excited about a lot of the bills that the committee has been talking about today. And, um, pleased that you all were willing to spend time talking about them with us. A few questions. So, uh, congress has considered legislative frameworks to steer, set clear timelines for federal agencies to act on broadband permitting applications.
▶ 3:29:52For some time now, I'm committed to working toward lasting legislative solutions, uh, while at the same time, I believe the executive branch can do a fair amount of permitting reforms through their executive orders that congress can ultimately codify. So, um, jonathan's, uh, would you talk to me a little bit about this?
▶ 3:30:12Is there a scenario where you would welcome an executive order to implement the policies reflected before us today across all of federal management agencies, even as congress works to pass laws? These laws, yes. >> we believe this is a whole of government, uh, issue to solve. And and the executive order could help direct federal land agencies to adopt clear timelines with certainty.
▶ 3:30:36But at the same time, we think that it is this body, congress, um, that we would prefer to actually establish a durable, bipartisan, long term solution that will allow us to transcend administrations and make sure that the project of connecting our country to the absolute gold standard, which is fiber broadband, can happen, uh, and we no longer have to provide
▶ 3:31:07Second class service like the honk and screech of aol anytime, any anymore. >> yeah. All good. That's good. Uh. Thank you. Appreciate that. Um, Mr. hawley, uh, how would the bills before us today, including the cable expansion act, help wireless providers more efficiently deploy towers, small cells and rooftop facilities that are essential for ai driven applications. >> thank you very much for the question.
▶ 3:31:31Um, your bill and many of the other bills that are being considered really, um, are directly consistent with our three principles. And I say it all the time and I'm gonna say it again, we think these that the process needs to be predictable. And by that I mean local regulations that are consistent with federal law contain objective application review criteria with clear, workable design standards. And they need to be proportionate. Fees and levels of required review should be commensurate with the nature of the undertaking.
▶ 3:31:59Upgrades and modifications of existing structures shouldn't require the same review as a brand new build. And finally, they need to be transparent, right? We need a process where everybody understands where we are in the process and how we can work together to get the project approved. >> excellent. Thank you. Hopefully we can get there in a bipartisan way. >> um, I love talking about permitting, so this is super fun for me. So thank you. >> excellent I do too.
▶ 3:32:22Um, so, um, stacy, last question, uh, you've described railroad crossings as a major bottleneck. How would the cable expansion act, along with the rail act, address these challenges and accelerate broadband projects?
▶ 3:32:39>> I think those two bills together, working hand in hand, very much like what we are advocating for across the government, can ensure that all providers can cross railroads in an efficient way and in an effective way, guarding for safety, ensuring that liability insurance is in place, and thinking about your legislation and the types of providers who would benefit under your.
▶ 3:33:03We can have a full all of the above approach to delivering broadband. It's not dependent on a single technology, and we look forward to making sure that that happens. And we'd love to continue to talk to you about that. >> excellent. Very good. Thank you, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> we're concluded here. I don't see any more, uh, members.
▶ 3:33:34Uh, I ask unanimous. Uh, so to wrap things up, I ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the documents included on the staff hearing documents list. Without objection. So ordered. Um, seeing there are no further members wishing to be recognized, I would like to thank our witnesses again for being here today. Sorry for the interruption, but, uh, uh, we we have to vote around here.
▶ 3:34:00So, uh, but y'all are very kind to, uh, take your time to be with us. And, uh, I remind members that they have ten business days to submit questions for the record. And I ask the witnesses to respond to questions promptly. Members should should submit their questions by the close of business on thursday, october 2nd. Without objection, the subcommittee is adjourned. Okay. >> thank you sir.