▶ 0:19:24Subcommittee will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time. We welcome everybody to today's hearing. Thank you for being here. A number of our colleagues on this committee and from the region have joined us this morning. Without objection, Mr. Klein, Ms. Lee, Mr. Fry, Mr. Nott, Mr. Harris, Mr. Harrigan, Mr. Moore, Mr. Norman, Mr.
▶ 0:19:54Edwards, Mr. Rouser, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Kelly, Ms. Ross, and Ms. Adams will be permitted to participate in today's hearing for the purpose of questioning the witnesses, and they each will receive 5 minutes for that purpose. I now recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Brad Knott, to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. I will then ask afterward that we all remain standing for a moment of silence.
▶ 0:20:27I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
▶ 0:21:11Good morning again. I want to welcome everyone once again to today's hearing. I wanted this to be a good and productive hearing. I think there are a number of us who are going to be very candid, including some of the witnesses, perhaps at sometimes blunt. I respect my colleagues on the other side greatly. However, I fundamentally disagree in a number of things that happened that have been highlighted by the stories we're going to hear today.
▶ 0:21:41I do wish that more members from the other side of the aisle were here. Uh I respect differences of opinion, but I think you have to be there, you be in the game, you have to participate. I appreciate both of you for being here very much today, and I know we're going to have a continuing dialogue on that. You know, today we're here in Charlotte, North Carolina, but this committee, and I've been on it, has also been to Philadelphia. We've also been to New York City.
▶ 0:22:11We've also worked each and every day in Washington, D.C. And you know, when we went to Philly, we saw a progressive D.A. Larry Krasner allow more than 400 murders to happen that year, and his office dismissed 70%, not 7%, 70% of those The committee's been in New York City, and when there we saw D.A.
▶ 0:22:38Alvin Bragg let crime surge while he focused on politicizing his office and on politics. He even tried to throw a bodega clerk in jail that was defending himself from Every time the committee visits a new city when we do these field hearings, which is a good thing to do, the story is the same.
▶ 0:23:01The faces may be different, the accents may be different, the city may look different, but the same story, we're mourning for innocent lives that have been lost. Hearing from families who've been shattered, have been broken apart, have been destroyed. And there are no words we can say. We were talking on the bus ride here, a few of us. You know, when something like this happens to a daughter or a son, a brother or a sister, a mother or father, there are no words.
▶ 0:23:31There are no words that I can say to some of the people on the panel today that ever make it right. I know that. I never say I know how you feel, because I don't know how you feel. I can never know how some of you feel. I pray to God that I don't know how you The latest name we speak of is Iryna Zhuravska, a young woman with her whole life ahead of her.
▶ 0:23:57One who fled an actual war zone to chase the American dream. She wanted to be here so badly, I think some of you may know that when she was her parents requested that she be actually buried here in America cuz she loved America so much. And what's perverse about all this, it wasn't in the battlefields of Ukraine where she lost her life. It was right here on an American street in an American city.
▶ 0:24:28It's unacceptable. We're tired of it. We're sick of it. It's sickening. And you know, ladies and gentlemen, we don't have to accept it. It doesn't have to be this way.
▶ 0:24:43Bad leaders let this happen, weak And it's not just crime policy, and I'm going to just the only time I think today I'm going to digress, but it's an odd time in American history where we have I I think some really bad ideology, perverse and bizarre thoughts and ways of going about things.
▶ 0:25:05You know, whether it was the open borders where we allowed, you know, folks will say, "Well, borders always to some degree were open, and we had some illegals in this country." But we never had illegals who were also criminals and drug and drug dealers and murderers and people who assaulted other individuals on the terror watch list.
▶ 0:25:25Or whether it's children in our schools, I'm trying to paint the picture of I don't understand what some of the thought processes in what we're doing in our country when we say that our can work with politicians, administrators, and others to change their gender, to change their name, to change their pronouns.
▶ 0:25:46Or in foreign aid, when around the world we're spending your tax dollars for transgender opera, or drag queen shows, or bizarre studies around the world of prostitutes, and I'm not making this stuff up. That's the sad part. Or men competing in women's sports.
▶ 0:26:06None of that has specifically to do what's going on, what's happening here today, but it does because we're doing things to ourselves as a nation that makes no sense to me. That makes no sense to most of the Americans that I meet when I'm in any town, any city, or in my home district. I just don't get It's just not natural.
▶ 0:26:30You know, I have to ask why don't, when we come back to what happened here to these victims, why is it that some of these leaders don't show more compassion for they do show more compassion for but not the victims.
▶ 0:26:47Somebody came up to me, I was talking to him about this very a regular constituent, and said, "Why do we abandon our victims, but have heart and empathy for the criminals?" I didn't have an answer. What are we doing? I don't know. Why are judges, elected officials, leftists, nonprofits, and activist groups doing all they can to make our streets more dangerous? I don't know how else to say it. It's purposeful. It's not accidental.
▶ 0:27:19Let's talk about you know, why we're here. A magistrate judge let this killer walk free even after his own mother said he was and that he was a real problem, and she was concerned. His own mother.
▶ 0:27:35The magistrate judge said, "Well, this is the 14th time he committed a crime, but you know, I think it'll be his last because he signed a handwritten note that he's going to be good." Are we serious about that? You're you're looking us straight in the face and saying that? You don't need a degree to know that it's absurd. You don't need to be an attorney or judge to know that it's wrong. You don't have to have a high-ranking title to know that it doesn't make sense.
▶ 0:28:07All you need is common sense and empathy and a heart and the desire to see this nation to be the best nation that it can possibly be. But he was allowed to walk our streets, and now a young woman, and there's other stories, it's not the only story, but this young beautiful woman with her entire future in front of her, working three jobs, living the American dream, believing in America, she's gone.
▶ 0:28:36This hearing's not going to bring her back. Your testimony's not going to bring him back. The good people who are here watching is not going to bring her back. There's nothing we can do except to make that her life has meaning. So, if it has meaning, it means we stop doing this. That we stop putting bad people back on the street. And you know, it's something we can relate to because millions of Americans around the country use transit every day.
▶ 0:29:03You know, in Charlotte, there's a great group of people who are really working here to make the transit even better and safer, and are doing wonderful things. We have to allow them to do that. We need the laws, we need the judges, we need the attorneys, we need the attorneys we need the prosecutors and to do the right thing, to do their damn You know, Iryna didn't even speak to this man. Anybody ever see Did they ever see the video on it? It's sickening. It's heartbreaking.
▶ 0:29:33Young girl, kind of tired from just finishing an 8-hour shift, she slips into her seat, doesn't bother anybody, and this I don't want to say the words. This individual comes behind her and thrusts a knife into her and takes the life from her. She didn't provoke him. She didn't hurt him. She didn't yell at him. She didn't look at him. She probably didn't even see him. But she was murdered.
▶ 0:30:03It could be me. It could be you. It could be men, any member on this panel. It could be your brother, your sister, your mother, your father, your daughter, your son. And when you think about this issue, think about it that way. Think how you would feel if it was someone you knew and loved that was in your family. We can't live like this. We don't want to live like this. And here's the catch.
▶ 0:30:29There's absolutely no reason for us to live like this. And you know, when we do this, what what's happened in the past in this incident and many others, it tells American one Americans one thing, something they don't want to hear, that their safety and their values comes We must be tough on crime. I'm not talking about minor victimless crime. You know what I'm talking about.
▶ 0:30:59Cruel, harsh assaults, murders, beatings, the things we know that are out there. Repetitive crime over and over again. You know, my my friends and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle like to talk about gun laws and you know, on legal people, legally owned guns. I'm not going to talk about that today. But this individual had a problem with illegal guns.
▶ 0:31:24And we all can agree on that we should crack down on those who steal guns or use them illegally or who are criminals. Violent criminals should be behind bars. We've got to keep them there. We've got to stop the cashless bail. And we must put good law-abiding Americans first. And you know what? I'm going to address something else cuz sometimes when you say these things and I again, what I got up here and what I got here comes out of my mouth.
▶ 0:31:54You say these things and somebody say to you, well, that's racist or that's or that's Hitlerian or that's, you know, all the other terms. I can't even think of all the words that are dictatorial, you know, all these words that are used. It's not. Cuz here's the deal.
▶ 0:32:13Whether you're an African-American, whether you're white, whether you're Asian, whether you're Hispanic, whether you're gay, whether you're straight, damn it, you want to be safe when you go out in your streets. Somebody called my office because they were complaining about trying to crack down on crime in Washington, D.C. and there were those that'll tell you, oh, there is no crime in Washington, D.C. I know I've had two people on my team in Congress that have been assaulted. I know a friend of mine who's a congressman whose intern was killed.
▶ 0:32:43I know that murdered. I know that down in within eye shot of where my little apartment is in D.C., two Jewish beautiful Jewish young couple that left the museum were shot to death. I know that President Trump's intern we had the living daylights beat out of Don't tell me there's any crime in Washington. So, I've been supportive. Yeah, you should be able to walk the nation's capital day or night and be safe. This is America. You should be able to do that.
▶ 0:33:13So, somebody we we you know how people call the office. We all do. All the time. And you're talking about, you know, the assault in my office. And they said, well, that person from your office shouldn't have been out at night. Well, number one, it wasn't evening, it was during the day. Number two, yeah, you can. It's America. And if you want to walk around the nation's capital in the evening, you damn well should be able to. It's got to change.
▶ 0:33:43We must return to common sense. I want to thank the witnesses for being here today. I know this is not easy. I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. Your stories are heart-rending. Um you're going to share with us what was terrible and most importantly, what is And by your work and your faith and your focus in being here you may save future lives and we appreciate that.
▶ 0:34:11You know, their testimony is not just what happened to them. It's a warning and a call to all of us to do the right With that, I will yield to the ranking ranking member ranking member, Ms. Ross. Okay. Thank you very much, Representative Van Drew. And thank you to everyone for coming today to discuss these important issues. I especially want to thank the witnesses who have come to be with us today.
▶ 0:34:43Thank you to our law enforcement officers for your you are the selfless men and women in uniform. And you keep us safe every day. I especially want to thank Officer Campbell for being here and for what he's done for this great city. I also want to express my gratitude to those of our witnesses who have lost loved ones to crime or who were victims themselves.
▶ 0:35:13Your courage in telling your and having your voices heard is so so important and my heart goes out to you. Before I get started, I also want to my deepest deepest condolences to the family of Arena Zarutska. What happened to her is simply unimaginable and unconscionable.
▶ 0:35:41And I hope that we will take to heart her family's request not to remember her by her last moments or politicize her but instead to remember her as the vibrant and exceptionally kind person she was. And I'm thrilled that we have a picture of her in that state right in front of us. Finally, we're here in North Carolina and we had a tragedy yesterday.
▶ 0:36:10I want to express my prayers and my absolute heartbreak to the victims of the Southport mass shooting yesterday. I know our governor is there today and I know our hearts go out to the victims and their families.
▶ 0:36:33So, the majority has brought us here And I would say I went to the Philadelphia hearing. I've been on the Judiciary Committee since I was in um ever in Congress. But to be honest and for our victims, this hearing is too little too late.
▶ 0:36:55We should have been doing more to prevent crime and address the lack of mental health care long before this hearing. Oh, I'm sorry. I am so sorry. I am so Thank you so much for bringing that. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I am so sorry for you.
▶ 0:37:23I am so I'm so sorry for your loss and my heart goes out to you. My heart goes out to So, we should have been doing things to prevent Logan's death and Arena's death and I am so sorry. To my Republican friends this is not Democrats' fault.
▶ 0:37:53This is the fault of Congress and our legislature to not do enough. They want you to believe that tough on crime and saying law and order is going to solve the problem. And they want to believe that a slogan will make America safe again.
▶ 0:38:14But if that is the case is the Congress cutting aid to local law enforcement by a hundred million dollars next year? Why are they proposing cuts to the crime victims fund?
▶ 0:38:31Why do they want to slash juvenile justice grant grants and hate crime Why are they working to cut federal support for survivors of domestic violence who I hear from every single day by almost a hundred million dollars?
▶ 0:38:48In short why if they care so much about law enforcement in North Carolina are they trying to defund the police and the FBI behind closed doors in Washington, D.C.? The reality is that these cuts undermine public safety and they don't give law enforcement the tools they need to keep us safe.
▶ 0:39:17This isn't about an abstract budget line The programs on the chopping block equip and train local police, provide support to crime victims, and combat domestic violence. And I've gotten many of these grants for my constituents and law enforcement in Wake County. So, shuttering and merging vital offices within the Department of Justice is not about fiscal responsibility.
▶ 0:39:47It's about letting our people down. It's about crippling the very institutions designed to combat the most severe crimes and the most dangerous A weakened FBI has fewer resources to track and apprehend criminals. A defunded ATF won't be able to track the flow of illegal guns used to commit violent crimes.
▶ 0:40:14So, when you hear these familiar slogans like make America safe again, I urge you to look not at what my colleagues on the other side say, but what they actually do. Cutting police resources and defunding federal agencies are not the policies of a party committed to public safety. And the consequence in this country is that we are less prepared and we are less safe.
▶ 0:40:44We deserve better. Our police officers and prosecutors deserve better. Our communities deserve better. And most of all, victims of crime and their families deserve better. If we want to honor them, we should seek real solutions to prevent these tragedies and not hide behind empty slogans.
▶ 0:41:09And since we are in Charlotte and we are in North Carolina and you have a representative from Charlotte and from North Carolina, I have a unanimous consent request. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article written by Simon Simone Jasper entitled two two North Carolina cities rank among the safest in the country. Here's why.
▶ 0:41:35It notes that Charlotte is the ninth safest city in the country and Raleigh is the 10th safest city in the country. And while I'm honored to have the Judiciary Committee here, I think that North Carolina, while we can always do better, has done better than many of the cities that we have failed to visit. Thank you and I yield back. Thank you, Ranking Member.
▶ 0:42:01I now recognize uh today's witnesses and we will start with Ms. Alderman and we will go right down the Thank you. Thank you all for again for being here. Ms. Alderman.
▶ 0:42:26Members of the Committee, thank you for allowing me to speak My name is Mary Alderman. I'm the grandmother of Mary Collins. Mary Collins. was sadistically tortured. She was tortured. She was brutally murdered in Charlotte, North Carolina in 2020.
▶ 0:42:53This is 2025 and a half. Mary was only 20 years old when her life was taken in the most horrific way imaginable imaginable. She was bludgeoned in the head. She was stabbed over 130 Mary was then bled out in a bathtub.
▶ 0:43:22All of Mary's blood went down into the Charlotte sewer Mary was then wrapped in plastic and hidden inside a mattress.
▶ 0:43:37While myself and my family and then members of the community tried to get to Mary, I myself was inside the apartment yelling Mary's name to no avail. I'm sorry. This is very difficult.
▶ 0:44:03I have it written out, but then as I sat here, I sort of decided that I needed to go a little Our family's now endured more than 5 years of waiting and still her case has not gone to trial. 5 years is not justice.
▶ 0:44:205 years is Every day of delay deepens the wound for our family and makes a mockery of What makes this even more unbearable is how the justice system has handled those accused of Mary's murder. Thank you. Two of them were released on bond as if their crimes were minor.
▶ 0:44:48As if they stole a candy bar or, you know, maybe broke in a car or something. One in particular, her name is America Rey Dial. She remains free on bond today despite repeated violations of her curfew and ankle monitor conditions. She has faced little to no consequence.
▶ 0:45:17We know she has broken curfew, left her home, pushed the boundaries of the very system meant to contain her. She basically thumbs her nose at it, which you can see for yourself on the uh photos that she posted on social media. They've now been taken down, but we have copies. nothing's been done. How can someone accused of such cruelty walk free while we, Mary's family, serve a life sentence of grief?
▶ 0:45:48The failures did not begin in the courtroom. They began when Mary was killed. For days, family, friends, and the community pleaded for help. Pleaded. I was pleading as Mary's I don't know the right word. Mary Mary had a a disability. An invisible disability if if you're familiar with invisible disabilities.
▶ 0:46:14That means that you can't you know, look at her and tell. Um care caregiver would be the right word. The police department and the detective would not what I was saying about Mary and how these people had her and they were hurting her and I needed to get to her.
▶ 0:46:40It was long and it was torturous to even get him to go through that apartment door where she lay wrapped in plastic and concealed inside a mattress. It was 8 days since Mary left home. When they brought Mary out, it was finally the night of April 4th. She left the house on March 28th.
▶ 0:47:07The next day was Mary's mother's birthday, April 5th. That delay cost precious time and it compounded the horror of what we later learned had happened inside. I cannot speak everything that happened to Mary because if I try to speak what happened to Mary, I will no longer be able to sit or stand.
▶ 0:47:35So, you're going to have to use your imagination on that part. Justice delayed is justice denied and time is stealing our justice with the backlog court system for murder trials and Mary is not the only victim. We're here because Irania Irania Zarzuela was also brutally stabbed and killed in Charlotte. She now brings us here today.
▶ 0:48:08The same system that failed Mary, failed Our hearts are broken for her family and her friends and we grieve with them. We carry the heavy knowledge of the continued agony Agony that they now face. This is not just about two young women. It's about the justice system in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina, that is failing the very people it sworn to protect.
▶ 0:48:38We need accountability. We need reform. We need to ensure that those accused of heinous crimes are swiftly prosecuted. That they're not allowed to be released on bond and just live their life. They get to go home and and and sleep in their own bed and party and have Christmas and I wondered when they released America, did her mom did her mom get to smell her hair?
▶ 0:49:08Did she I you know, did she wrap her in a warm blanket at night because I think I think about that sometimes. Mary being in the ground in the ground in the ground dead and she was so decomposed by the time they got her out of that apartment that we never saw her again. We couldn't look at her. I couldn't smell her hair, touch her face, hold I I didn't know what to do.
▶ 0:49:38Was I supposed to wrap her in a blanket for her to be buried or her siblings, you know, they wanted her to be buried in her favorite clothes. It was COVID, so only 10 of us could go to a graveyard. We couldn't have a funeral for Mary. Has had no funeral. No Her murderers have not faced trial.
▶ 0:50:06They've been out free on bond and we had to go to a cemetery where there was a casket that they told us Mary was And only 10 of us could go. They shouldn't be allowed to be released on bond con- conditions where they violate the conditions of their release again and again without consequence, which is what America Deal has it has done.
▶ 0:50:32Uh the other one that was released on bond, James Salerno, has since been taken back to the Mecklenburg County jail. Apparently, he was maybe too much for his mother to handle. I really don't know. But he's back in the jail now. But he was he was free for 2 years. And America has only spent a year in jail. So she's been free for 4 and 1/2 years. And she continues to violate.
▶ 0:51:01And we've and we've and we've contacted the DA's office. We don't know if the judges know that she's violated, but she should not be just free. She never should have gotten a bond in the first place. Mary was my granddaughter. Mary was my granddaughter. I'm sorry.
▶ 0:51:28I was just checking with the with the chair about Okay, I'm I'm almost finished. She was a daughter, sister, family member, and friend. She was vulnerable. She was also full of life and trust, especially That was betrayed and her murder- her murderers exploited her trust. Our family has lived in anguish for more than half a decade.
▶ 0:51:50While those responsible has still not faced a jury, I sit before you today for Mary and for every family who has lost someone to violence and then has been failed again and again and again and again by the system that should deliver deliver justice. I ask you to see Mary not as another case number, but as a voice calling out for change. Thank you for hearing me and for recognizing the urgency of justice that has been denied for too long.
▶ 0:52:20Thank you, Ms. Alderman. And your testimony, I don't even have the words, was riveting. we went over. And in order that everybody can hear everybody, we have a lot of witnesses and we have a lot of members today. So we have a 5-minute rule and I I'm going to stick with that um for now on. And that's not to be that's not because of a lack of concern or that we don't feel for what you're trying to say. You can't do it in 5 minutes. I get it. I understand.
▶ 0:52:49But just so that you can get the we can get the whole hearing done. And we're only here till I think it's 12:30. 12:30 they're going to kick us out. So for that reason, it's not me being mean-spirited, okay? Thank you. Um next, Mr. Frederico. I want to make sure you all knew my daughter's name. My daughter was Logan Frederico. Logan Frederico. She was 22, visiting friends at the University of South Carolina.
▶ 0:53:19How many of y'all have kids? I'm just curious. Here's what I need you to do. When I tell you this story, think about your kids. Think about your child coming home from a night out with their friends. Laying down, going to sleep. Feeling somebody come in the room and wake them. And drag her out of bed. Forced on her knees. With her hands over her head.
▶ 0:53:51Begging for her life. Begging for her hero. Her father. Me. That couldn't be there. She was 5'3". She weighed 115 lb.
▶ 0:54:14Because Alexander Devonte Dickey, who was arrested 39 goddamn times, 25 felonies, was on the street. How about that? How good are we doing for our family? How good are you doing for your kids? He should have been in jail for over 140 years for all the crimes he committed.
▶ 0:54:42You know how much time he spent in A little over 600 days in 10 years. He's only 30 years old. He was committing 2.65 crimes a year since he was 15 years old, but nobody could figure out that he couldn't be rehabilitated. Well, you'd have to put him in prison to see if he could be rehabilitated. Isn't that the idea of prison?
▶ 0:55:12But no. My daughter wanted to be a teacher. She finally figured it out 2 weeks before she was executed. And I haven't heard a damn word from Byron Gibson in South Carolina. Not one word. 4 months, no communication. His biggest concern was that he was pissed off about my interview and how I made him look on the Fox News channel with Trey Gowdy.
▶ 0:55:42How pathetic is that? That we're letting our 22-year-old kid visiting friends. It's all she ever wanted to do was visit friends. And she literally was executed while on her knees begging for her life. Her name's Logan Not Irena. And you will not forget her. I promise you.
▶ 0:56:09You will be sick and tired of my face and my voice until this gets fixed. I will fight until my last breath for my You need to fight for the rest of our children. The rest of the innocents. And stop protecting the people that keep taking them from us. Please. You have the power.
▶ 0:56:37We put you in the power to do what you have to do. We're asking you. We're begging you all to stop this. crimes in 10 years. 25 felonies. Can anybody there here explain to me why how possibly he could be on the street? Possibly be on the street.
▶ 0:57:01How is it I could sit down in a room and I could explain the whole process of how it failed. How South Carolina failed Logan. Okay? How lack of communication. What y'all did, you woke up a beast and you pissed off the wrong daddy. Because I'm going to put it out there. And I'm not going to be quiet until somebody helps. Logan's deserves to be heard. Everyone on this panel deserves to be heard. And we will.
▶ 0:57:32Trust me. My daughter laid on the floor for 7 hours before somebody in that house recognized that something was wrong. And that killer criminal, an hour later, went on a spending spree with her debit card. When they saw his face on a video, they didn't have to do a check. He was arrested so many times, they knew who he They knew exactly where to go get him.
▶ 0:58:05Absolutely pathetic that I'm here today. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Officer Campbell. Look, good morning. first I want to say for the record that I'm not here to represent the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department. I'm here to represent myself.
▶ 0:58:30And so you can get a clear view of what a violent criminal does when he's back on the streets. April 29th of 2024, the Marshall Service was serving a warrant for a convicted felon for possession of a firearm again. While serving that warrant, four members of that or three members of the task force and one member of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department were gunned down and murdered that day.
▶ 0:59:00Along with five others, including myself, that were injured. that day was chaos. Responding that call, multiple officers, not only dead, but injured, were taking gunfire from an elevated by a known convicted felon.
▶ 0:59:26During the process of extracting the officers, I end up breaking my foot which resulted in me being diagnosed diagnosed with regional complex pain It's a miserable diagnosis which led to the amputation of my right foot. I will no longer be where I was prior to that day.
▶ 0:59:52Now, in my hand I will gladly submit this for your is his entire arrest report. And in this report starts in 2009 where he burglarized a residence with a stolen After he was taken to jail, he was where he can where he can where he committed multiple other offenses prior to him going to prison.
▶ 1:00:26He was released from prison and again continuously committed violent crimes with firearms. Now, I ask you why is it that we take people who commit these heinous crimes and we do not hold them accountable for their actions. We sit there and we try to give it a reason as a mental health issue or some other type of issues that realistically doesn't take blame.
▶ 1:00:56the judicial system here in Mecklenburg County I can speak first hand is trash. And I'll say it again over and over And I'll take the repercussions what comes next after me saying that. But the magistrate system here has no idea what they are doing. This cashless bail system is a joke. I believe in my heart that if you commit a crime against another person violently, that you should not have a bond. They should sit in jail until your time comes.
▶ 1:01:29Uh there's a lot more that I could say but I'm trying to swallow my emotions I've seen multiple committees such as this one and words are exchanged but action never comes to it. So, I'm going to ask you guys all of you that at some point look at us and look at the future victims because there will be more.
▶ 1:01:55And say at what point do we hold them accountable for their actions and stop playing this political circus game. And I will yield back the rest of my time. Give it to someone else. I'm going to thank you very much. I'm going to take a second just to say I really do believe and I do. I wouldn't be here. That we do want to do something. This makes me sick to my stomach. I'm angry about it and I haven't lost a loved one so I can't imagine.
▶ 1:02:22The system, the way that it's set up makes it so damn difficult to straighten things out. That's what each and every one of you are feeling because by the time you change magistrates and change superior court justices and a change prosecutors and a change attorneys general and I can go on through the list. It doesn't happen in one day.
▶ 1:02:44But I believe by the con- constant relentless pounding that we're going to give and we will support you shoulder to I'll stand anywhere and I know this committee will at least most of us will anywhere shoulder to shoulder with you and make sure you get the support you need. So, I it's not a political show. It's not just a you know, get on television or whatever the hell it is. It's because we I want it to stop because I mean this. It could be my kid.
▶ 1:03:13It could be my family, my wife, my anybody, all of us. Everybody who's here knows that intuitively. It could be any of us. So, it's not only you. You are not alone. We're sick and tired and disgusted and we're going to keep pushing on this and keep speaking out. Political correctness is bull. It's time to do the right thing. Thank you. Mr. Woody.
▶ 1:03:45Good morning. Chairman Van Drew, members of the thank you for holding this critical hearing in Charlotte. I'm Michael Woody, I'm North Carolina chairman of the National Association for Bail Agents. I come before you today not only as an expert on secure bail but as a lifelong North Carolina resident, a father a grandfather, a former law enforcement professional who has witnessed first hand how the no cash bail policies have devastated our communities and our families.
▶ 1:04:14It's a shame that we had to wait until August 22nd, 2025 just 5 short weeks ago that Iryna Zhuravska, the 23-year-old Ukrainian refugee who survived the war zone and fled to safety in America was brutally murdered on the Lynx route, light rail system in Her killer was De'Carlos Brown.
▶ 1:04:34He was a repeat offender with 14 prior arrest and released unsecured bail, cashless bail on his own recognizance earlier this year at that. Despite concerns about his mental stability and his chronic diagnosis of schizophrenia, he was still released with cashless bail. The Department of Justice filed a federal complaint on September 9th charging Brown with causing death on a mass transportation system.
▶ 1:05:04They've They've elevated his charges to the federal level. Iryna fled the horrors of war only to lose her life to an offender who should have been held accountable through secured bail. This wasn't random violence. It was a preventable tragedy enabled by the reckless policies that prioritize offender convenience over public safety. Here in Mecklenburg County, courts have embraced what they call reform.
▶ 1:05:33Unsecured bonds and taxpayer funded pretrial release programs. While studies show mixed results on appearance rate, the fundamental problem Unsecured release removes the of that comes when families and have financial stakes in ensuring Meanwhile, stakeholders report ongoing cycles of missed court appearances and When offenders fail to appear
▶ 1:06:03in court, the courts must continue the cases in and even sentence them in absentia costing taxpayers enormous resources while denying victims their right to provide impact statements such as you've heard today. And offenders with serious mental health such as Brown are released without the evaluation that and treatment that could prevent these tragedies. These policies aren't just dangerous, they're expensive.
▶ 1:06:33Mecklenburg County alone has spent $345,000 in local taxpayer funds for a new pretrial staff. They've wasted over $1.6 million in federal grants and at least $3.3 million in a private foundation money. The county now reports $3.87 million total they spent to put these offenders back on the street with no accountability.
▶ 1:06:56That's over $5 million to operate a system parallel to secure bail which worked effectively and cost taxpayers nothing and provided more security for This is the definition of government Multiple bureaucracies and millions in expenses to avoid using the system that required no taxpayer investment. Every missed court date delays justice for victims.
▶ 1:07:20Every repeat offense creates new victims who should have been Unlike states with mandatory victim notification, North Carolina can leave victims in the dark unless they go in themselves and sign up for the North Carolina SAVIN program which is a victim notification program. The victim has to do that themselves. That should be done automatic by your local prosecutors, your local courts.
▶ 1:07:44Contrast this with secure bail where family and communities cosigners create layers of accountability and When someone has financial skin in the game, they ensure compliance. When release is free, accountability and safety disappear. The evidence is clear.
▶ 1:08:03Secure bail enlists families in ensuring court appearances while protecting communities and families all without any taxpayer Members of the committee, North Carolina's experience proves that compassionate policies that ignore accountability are neither compassionate nor effective. You've heard that from three prior witnesses today.
▶ 1:08:22Federal funding should strengthen systems that protect victims to and ensure court appearances, not subsidize failed experiments to endanger innocent people like Iryna and these lovely ladies here. I urge this committee to stop rewarding failure with federal dollars, support North Carolina's bipartisan Iryna's law that targets these dangerous policies, restores accountability, protects victims and ensures justice and Thank you.
▶ 1:08:53Thank you, Ms. King. Good morning, Chairman Van Drew and the distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me to participate in today's hearing on victims of violent crime. This testimony provided to you today is through my personal capacity as a private citizen and native of this community and based upon my professional experience. My name is Dina King and I'm an attorney.
▶ 1:09:17I've always known I wanted to be an attorney because I wanted to help my community, serve justice and uphold the law. I spent 19 years, nearly two decades as a prosecutor, serving both as a state and a federal prosecutor. I started my legal career as a state prosecutor here in Mecklenburg County, where in addition to prosecuting crimes, I also worked in our mental health and drug courts.
▶ 1:09:42It was within that role that I saw firsthand the intersection between mental health and substance abuse issues within our criminal justice system. These specialized treatment courts demonstrated exactly what long-term studies have shown, that these courts significantly reduce recidivism.
▶ 1:09:59As a federal prosecutor, I was a member and leader of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force, formerly referred to as OCDEF, whereby through prosecutions I identified, disrupted, and dismantled major organized crime, violent, and drug trafficking organizations. It was through this initiative that I was able to prosecute some of our state's most violent offenders, including members of a gang that were responsible for committing several murders in North Carolina.
▶ 1:10:29What I soon learned after those defendants were convicted of racketeering murder charges and sentenced to consecutive life sentences, is that victims of crime, the family members of those murdered, still need resources to help them long after defendants are imprisoned. We need more support and funding for survivors and victims. What I've learned as an attorney prosecuting cases across this state, from the mountains to the sea, is that crime occurs in every community.
▶ 1:10:57Crime of any kind is unacceptable. I implore Congress to work with state and local governments and provide funding to community-based organizations to develop real solutions to address these problems. Solutions that address the specific needs of each community as a one-size-fits-all approach will not work.
▶ 1:11:18Specifically here in Mecklenburg County, funding's needed to assist in increasing our prosecutor staffing levels, which continue to lag significantly behind similar-sized jurisdictions. The Association of Prosecuting Attorneys suggests that for a jurisdiction the size of Mecklenburg, we should have at least 144 state prosecutors.
▶ 1:11:40Instead, we have 62 state-allocated positions and 22 additionally funded positions through Mecklenburg County and the city, bringing that total to 84. The high caseload of the prosecutors here results in prosecutor turnover. The District Attorney's Office cannot continue to do more with less. They cannot do more prosecutions with less staff. They need more resources, more funding, and more staff.
▶ 1:12:08During the last 4 years in my role as a federal prosecutor, it was in fact my priority to reduce violent crime, to remove illegal firearms from our streets, and to keep the people of the Western District of North Carolina safe. However, I recognized that my crime reduction efforts needed to extend beyond prosecutions. We cannot arrest or prosecute our way out of violent crime.
▶ 1:12:31That's why we need to be intentional about also incorporating violence prevention programs and intervention strategies, providing resources to community organizations and stakeholders to work with law enforcement and prosecutors in a shared commitment to making communities safer. The fight against violent crime isn't a fight that any one of us in this room can win alone.
▶ 1:12:54We must join forces, elected officials, law enforcement, prosecutors, community organizations, advocates, mental health and substance abuse professionals to support each other's work.
▶ 1:13:07Our joint forces are critical to our shared goal, which is to prevent tragedies and loss of life, to provide mental health and substance abuse resources to those in need, to hold offenders accountable, and to provide victims and survivors with the security and resources they need to rebuild their lives. To be clear, addressing and developing solutions for violent crime is a non-partisan issue because everyone in this community deserves the right to live safely.
▶ 1:13:37In fact, everyone in this community deserves the right to live. Thank you for holding this hearing and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Ms. King. Mr. Asher. Chairman Van Drew, ranking member Ross, and other members of the House. I'm honored for the opportunity to talk with you today about our nation's crime trends and how we can potentially drive them lower. My name is Jeff Asher and I'm a crime data expert.
▶ 1:14:03I've worked as an analyst over the last 18 years for the Department of Defense, Central Intelligence Agency, New Orleans Police Department, and Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office. In my role as the co-founder of AH Datalytics, I've created a project called the Real-Time Crime Index or RTCI, which gathers crime data from more than 500 agencies nationwide to estimate national crime trends as they occur. I'm here today to discuss the data which shows a sharp decline in murder and violent crime in America over the last few years.
▶ 1:14:30Acknowledging this fact does not deny the seriousness of these problems, nor does it imply that they are solved. Even the lowest US murder rate ever recorded means there were still 14,000 or so tragedies like the awful murders that brought you all to North Carolina today. Here is what the data unequivocally tells us about our nation's crime Murder in the United States fell at the fastest rate ever recorded by the FBI in both 2023 and 2024 on the heels of by far the largest one-year increase ever recorded in 2020.
▶ 1:15:00For 2025, the RTCI sample of 562 agencies covering 116 million people, shows murder is down 20% nationally through July, setting up the third straight year with a record decline. Many cities are seeing historic lows in terms of murder this year. Baltimore and Detroit had the fewest murders through August since 1965, Philadelphia since 1966, and New Orleans, my hometown, since 1970 despite the horrific terrorist attack on January 1st there.
▶ 1:15:29Chicago and New York City had the fewest shooting victims through August this year that either city has recorded in the few decades they have been tracking shootings. Los Angeles had the fewest murders through June since 1966 and San Francisco had the fewest murders through August since at least before 1960. The FBI has been estimating national crime rate since 1960 and tallying it all up with this year's decline points to the strong likelihood that the FBI will report the lowest murder rate that it has ever recorded in the United States this year.
▶ 1:15:56That works out to roughly 8,000 fewer people murdered nationally this year than in both 2020 and 2021. And it's not just murder that is falling. Overall reported violent and property crime are both down double-digit percentage points in the RTCI. The United States' reported violent crime rate in 2025 will likely be the lowest reported by the FBI since 1968 and the nation's reported property crime rate will likely be the lowest on Violent crime in general and murder specifically rose in North Carolina in 2020 like in much of the nation, peaked in 2021 and have been
▶ 1:16:26declining ever since. North Carolina was one of 44 states in 2024 to report a drop in murder relative to 2023 according to the Charlotte's trends are are closely conforming to both national and statewide trends, having seen murder increase from roughly 68 per year on average between 2015 and 2018 to 117 in 2020. Murder is down 8% statewide per the RTCI and down 25% in Charlotte this year as the city has had the fewest murders year-to-date since 2018.
▶ 1:16:55Violent crime in North Carolina is down 15% statewide and down 21% in Charlotte through July per the RTCI. Despite falling in the last few years, statewide violent crime and murder remain elevated relative to the mid-2010 lows in North Carolina, though well below where they stood in the mid-1990s. Ultimately, the data is very clear about the direction of crime in the United States right now. But explaining why crime is falling is both quite challenging and essential to ensuring future reductions.
▶ 1:17:22Any explanation must account for at least six factors in my opinion. One, the declines are occurring nearly everywhere in the United States with drops in every category of crime, all seven categories that the FBI measures, and all 11 population groups that they measure in 2024. Two, the declines began in 2023 and have accelerated in the last 2 years, suggesting the main causes, or at least the initial causes, are rooted in investments begun in the 2021 and 2022 time frame.
▶ 1:17:50Three, most medium and large cities have fewer police officers today than they had when murder began spiking. Four, we have not fixed the supposed root causes of crime such as poverty and lack of educational opportunities. Five, the nation has more guns in circulation now than ever before. And six, clearance rates for most crimes remain low by historical standards. Acknowledging what is borne out in the data, a drop in murder and other reported crime, presents a golden opportunity to better understand why this is happening.
▶ 1:18:18The critical task now, in my opinion, is to understand what is driving our crime trends down so that policymakers at the local, state, and national levels can have the tools to better bring about falling crime everywhere. Thank you. And Mr. Chairman, I apologize, but I'm going to have to leave at noon to catch a flight back Understood. Thank you for being here. We are now going to ask you all to rise. We're going to swear you in.
▶ 1:18:48You're good. You're good. You rose to the occasion already. Do you swear or affirm, under penalty of perjury, the testimony you have just given and are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God? Yes. Okay. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered and you may sit down. Have answered in the affirmative.
▶ 1:19:17Um please know that your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety. So, if you weren't able to say everything you wanted to today, you'll have additional opportunity. Accordingly, we ask um that if you do have written testimony, obviously, to please submit it. With that, we're going to begin the questions from the members of Congress, and I will start with Ms. Klein. Is that good for you? I'm sorry. Mr. Klein, and you will be second, Ms. Okay.
▶ 1:19:48Mr. Klein. We're going to start with you. Are you okay? That's great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate you holding this hearing. I want to thank our witnesses for being here. This is very difficult uh and you are helping us uh to craft policies that will hopefully help victims, because ultimately, that's what we have to keep in the forefront of our minds, are the victims.
▶ 1:20:10Uh we can get lost in the numbers a lot of times, but what we have to do is is remember that each crime has a victim, and each victim has to be remembered and have us to stand up for them. Um to the city of Charlotte, you have a problem. You have a problem here.
▶ 1:20:31Uh you have a criminal justice system that is And I'm not just picking on Charlotte because we've been in Philadelphia in a field hearing. We've been in New York City. Any other large city across this country is going to have a similar problem. I'm from the Commonwealth of Virginia, just to the north. And you could go to Richmond. You could go to Norfolk. You could go to Fairfax. You're going to see similar problems.
▶ 1:21:01And they all um have a broken justice system. You have to have three parts of your system working together in order for there to be accountability. You have to have law enforcement who do fantastic jobs uh arresting and charging. You have to have prosecutors who do amazing jobs. I was a line prosecutor at the county level right out of law school, uh who by and large do amazing jobs uh trying to prosecute these cases.
▶ 1:21:32And you have to have judges who are willing to convict and sentence these criminals. and without all three working together aggressively, you're going to have a broken criminal justice system. Uh so, serving as a as a local prosecutor, like many on this committee right now, uh we have seen we've gone in for bonds hearings in the morning and had these criminals come in. You look at three factors.
▶ 1:22:02You look at their criminal You look at whether they're going to be a danger to the community if they are given a bond. And you look at whether uh they're going to uh abscond and and if any of those are a possibility, you argue against bond. And if a judge thinks that any of those are a likelihood, you deny bond. And you hold them.
▶ 1:22:26We also had 287G agreements where if this offender was an illegal immigrant, they were held until the uh till their case was finished, and then ICE could pick them up. We need, as federal uh officials, to put in place mandatory 287G agreements so that every jail has to hold onto these illegal aliens until they can be picked up by ICE and deported.
▶ 1:22:52But we've got uh a broken system because not all of these parts are functioning together. Uh in Virginia, we had laws on the books that were presumptions against bond. So, if you came in and you were charged with a certain offense, it was presumed you didn't get a bond. And it was up to the defense attorney to actually argue to overcome that presumption and get you a bond.
▶ 1:23:17So, more offenders were kept in jail uh pending their trial, and after conviction, were held uh for and for sentencing, and then were sentenced aggressively. Uh but then we had a legislature that flipped. And we had a Democrat legislature and a Democrat governor get rid of the reinstate parole. We had the lowest recidivism rate in the country in Virginia, and that's gone.
▶ 1:23:47And now, we have cities, we have counties like in Fairfax, where we have a prosecutor, Soros-backed prosecutor, who's actually treating illegal immigrants better than Americans defendants. So, um we have a problem right in our own Commonwealth. But yes, there are solutions that have to happen on the local level. Yes, there are solutions that have to happen on the state level.
▶ 1:24:12Uh at the federal level, I believe about 50 of the local prosecutors here in Charlotte are federally funded. Well, let me say this. As a member of the Appropriations we need to start tying the money for these prosecutors to the laws that are on your books. And making sure that you actually impose some accountability here in Charlotte.
▶ 1:24:37Make sure that you have the policies in place to make sure that justice is done, and that these policies are not ignored by the judges, ignored by the but are actually taken seriously. So, as an appropriator, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to take your stories back to Washington. And I'm going to fight for the your victim the victims of that that suffered so tragically um as a result of these crimes. But I want to thank you all for your time, and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Klein.
▶ 1:25:08Ms. Ross, the gentle lady from North Thank you, uh Chair Van Drew. Um as a former member of the General Assembly and also a former transit attorney, I have been an advocate for additional resources for safe transit, for mental health, for victims, for law enforcement for decades.
▶ 1:25:32And in fact, the district attorney here, Spencer Merriweather, has also been sounding the alarm for years about the chronic lack of funding his office has received from our state legislature. As we heard from Ms. King, he currently has 84 full-time assistant district attorneys in his office, many of them locally funded.
▶ 1:25:59But for a city the size of Charlotte, the standard says that he should have at least 144 prosecutors to handle the caseload. This chronic underfunding by the state legislature leads to incredibly high caseloads for ADAs in his office, which in turn leads to high turnover and not moving cases quickly enough.
▶ 1:26:25The state allocation for the Mecklenburg DA's office has only increased by a single prosecutor since 2010, despite a 20% growth in Charlotte's population since then. And between 2010 and 2020, the legislature only added 31 more We're glad that the state legislature just decided to include additional funding for 10 more.
▶ 1:26:54But clearly, Mecklenburg County needs more than that. I would also say Wake County while I'm here advocating for them. Ms. King, given the lack of resources the state legislature has provided to the Mecklenburg DA's office, we're left hoping that the federal government will help pick up some of this slack. Mr.
▶ 1:27:16And yet, the Trump administration has clawed back or sought to cut hundreds of millions in funding for federal law enforcement assistance, substance abuse treatment, crisis intervention, domestic violence, crime victim assistance, and more. Can you speak about how ripping away these essential resources for state and local governments is not just an abstract budget item, but has a real-world effect on this community?
▶ 1:27:48When we talk about resources, less does not equate to more. Uh in fact, many of us in our own general lives, uh we say, "Put your money where your mouth is. Show me where you're spending your money, I'll show you what priorities are important to you." Um these offices, whether we're talking about law enforcement, whether we're talking about prosecutor offices, or whether we're talking about community organizations, they are doing the work and will continue to do the work.
▶ 1:28:15However, they're already strapped with trying to prioritize what what what initiatives do they put up first? Is it training? Is it personnel? Um is it equipment? And when the funding is either reduced um or cut back or diminished, that adds additional strains on these organizations to truly figure out how to best serve. To be clear, these offices have the goal of public safety in mind.
▶ 1:28:44However, being able to have sufficient resources to do that great work is vital uh to the boots on the ground, which are the local communities that are doing that work. And um as a follow-up to that, you know, you have a group of um of concerned Congresspeople here, including many from North Carolina.
▶ 1:29:04Can you tell us what, because you've been both a state prosecutor and a federal prosecutor, what we in North Carolina should be advocating for for our communities? More funding. Uh more funding to law enforcement. More funding for prosecutor offices. One example that I'll give you is anytime a prosecutor's office, for an example, is strapped with resources, they are having to decide whether or not maybe fill vacant positions.
▶ 1:29:35We're talking about unfunded positions, filling vacant positions. If those vacant positions remain vacant, that's more work that has to then be shared amongst the prosecutors that are in the office. That leads to turnover. It leads to prosecutor burnout.
▶ 1:29:52And so, what I would ask members of Congress to do is to really look at providing more resources, more funding in particular to our law enforcement agencies, to our prosecutor offices, and also to our community organizations that provide supplemental support for those. Thank you very much. And Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent request.
▶ 1:30:12I ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record an article titled "As Mecklenburg Weighs Budget Priorities, Court Leaders Barely Getting By Ask for Help" dated February 18th, 2025.
▶ 1:30:26Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. I'm going to claim my time. Just have a few thoughts here, so bear with me. Um some words were mentioned about the Crime Victims Fund and costs and so forth. Let me just point out that this fund was down actually during the Biden because they failed to collect so many fines against criminals. Good to know. Um some grant money was pulled from certain NGOs, nonprofits.
▶ 1:30:55Um and I'm going to tell you why. Because they were spending money. You know, it's important to realize here, money matters. Ms. King, you're right, money matters. But if you're spending the money on the wrong stuff over and over again and continuing bad policies over and over again, the money doesn't matter. In fact, maybe the money hurts. Cuz you're pushing these philosophies and these standards and what's happening in our country down everybody's throat, and you got the money to do it.
▶ 1:31:25So, that's not always a good thing. More money to really enforce the law? Absolutely. And I know Mr. Klein well, and I know that he will fight for that. But we have to do the right thing. So, some of these were funding to groups and NGOs that were pushing the exact opposite with the majority of you want and the vast majority of Americans want. Just a few questions here that I had. Mr. Frederico, you know, I'm sorry. I don't have the words.
▶ 1:31:53I'm not going to pretend to have the words, but let a simple answer is what I need here, cuz I want to make sure that we crystallize this. Should your daughter's murderer have been released so many times? Absolutely not. 100%.
▶ 1:32:07Clear as clear crystal clear, right?
▶ 1:32:08Crystal clear. Couldn't be any clearer. Yep, exactly. And if we had more money, she still would have been released if we had the same policies. That's the point. It's not the money. It's it's bad decisions. Mr. Campbell, all right, there you are. Um the assaults and the murders, what happened to you, what happened to your colleagues, what happened to those that are trying to keep us safe, uh and what's happening to much of the American public?
▶ 1:32:38Are bad judges, bad magistrates, bad prosecutors, bad laws, bad attorneys general letting people out too early? Is that the root cause of the problem? Thank you, Mr. Campbell. I appreciate Mr. Woody, um bail, could we, in your estimation, have saved lives if we had gotten rid of cashless bail and used secure bail, had bail that was secured? Absolutely.
▶ 1:33:08Again, crystal clear, right? Crystal clear. Secure bail interacts with the families of the defendants. Mr. Ascher, um you indicated that, you know, the crime rates drop lowest levels, nothing's happened to anybody. Um and I say this respectfully, I'm not picking on you. I I appreciate you being here. But man, talk to these people. You You want to come in my district, I'll introduce you to a whole lot of folks that don't feel that way. Walk the streets of some of these cities. DC, I told you the stories before.
▶ 1:33:35I mean, I've got an office there, and I two, not one, but two of my people in my office have been victimized. Um member of Congress's, you know, intern was murdered. Uh people have been killed and beaten and hurt. Um it depends how statistics are compiled. Statistics don't always tell the story. Quite frankly, statistics always aren't accurate. Uh are we indicting everybody we should? Are we convicting everybody we should? Are we releasing more people than we should?
▶ 1:34:05That all affects those statistics. So, I just wanted to say that to you. Um and you know, there's concern and I'm a Second Amendment guy, but I don't want to get into guns here. we're going after people legally who have guns and think that's going to cure the problem. How about the bad people who've committed felonies over and over that are released again, and some of those felonies involved guns? Shouldn't they be incarcerated? I mean, that's clear.
▶ 1:34:35You should agree with that, whatever side of the aisle I'm on, whether you're liberal, conservative, or whatever. So, you know, it's kind of the same theme, it's the same story. I I just wanted to touch base on on those few issues. And Ms. Alderman, just with you, um do we need more accountability? Just give me a yes or no, maybe a few words in our system. Do we need more We don't have any accountability, so any little bit more would be great. Thank you. Yes.
▶ 1:35:05And and do you believe that criminals should be released unsecured bond with unsecured bond or no bond at all? Of course not. They shouldn't be released with bond if they are charged with first-degree murder.
▶ 1:35:20Absolutely, I agree with you, but imagine we're releasing folks with no bond or unsecured bond, even worse. But I do
▶ 1:35:28Sir, I do not have to imagine. I live here in Charlotte.
▶ 1:35:30I know. Thank you. Yeah, and so, let me just ask you a question, cuz you're a very outspoken lady, and then I will be done. You heard Mr. Ascher say that everything's pretty good, crime rates down to record lows, no problems, everybody's happy. Is that your You live in Charlotte. Is that your perception? Absolutely not, and I've lived in Charlotte back and forth during my life since I was 6 years old, and I'm 64. So, I have a very good chronological memory of Charlotte and of the crime.
▶ 1:35:59And just since Mary was murdered 5 years ago in 2020, and she was one of those highest statistics in 2020. The crime is just it it's outrageous. And every single morning when you wake up, someone has been murdered, shot, and killed, or murdered in some other way. Other crimes that involve knives, axes, these types of things. So, you know, it depends on your perspective.
▶ 1:36:29If you want to look at all day long, then you're going to have a you know, I'm not a mathematician or you know, that type of analytical person. I I'm telling you I I I know that you are.
▶ 1:36:42safe. I I I know that you are. And that last thing I would say, again respectfully, Mr. Ascher, you know, I have an old rule when people are talking about what people are thinking in politics and public policy and government. Say, "Come on, come walk the streets. Walk the streets with me." Should walk the streets with these people and talk to what's going on out there. I don't know what your numbers are, but I think a lot of us know what's going on. With that, I want to recognize who do we have here? Ms. Adams from North Carolina. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:37:08Chairman, and let me first of all, thank you for uh the committee for having me be here today. I don't sit on this committee, but I am a resident of Charlotte, and I represent this district. Uh before I begin, though, I would like to just take a moment to thank all of the witnesses for being here and to say that my heart and compassion goes out to each of you on the loss of your your granddaughter, your daughter, and for your colleagues at the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department, and thank you for your service there.
▶ 1:37:39I'd also like to extend my condolences to the family and the friends of Irina Azar Tuska on this tragic murder. It was senseless, and and certainly we're continuing to hold all of you in our prayers. No one No one should feel unsafe in their community or in their home. Senseless acts of violence have no place in our society, and and they must be met with a commitment to creating safer communities for for everyone.
▶ 1:38:10All perpetrators of violent crimes must be held accountable, and they must pay their debt to society to ensure that justice is served and to protect our I'm a little disappointed, Mr. Chairman, that the that my colleagues here are politicizing the pain under the guise of seeking justice when really I think there's a there's an eye on this open seat.
▶ 1:38:37That That That's the real prize, and I'm going to just be honest, that's how I am. But this is why I think we're here, and we even though we should be in Washington trying to make sure the government stays open. But the hearing for me is is is not really about public safety, it's about uh our my colleagues trying to to paint Democrats as soft on crime, and we're not, and engaging in political uh theater, uh probably to score some headlines.
▶ 1:39:05Now, we don't need to try to distract the American people to cover up our own failure, that we have not had the real solutions and while we refuse to equip local government with the funding and the resources that they need to keep communities safe. We've heard that here. Public safety transcends politics and that's why Congress in 2022 passed the bipartisan safe communities act signed into law by President Biden.
▶ 1:39:33It was a first major federal gun safety legislation passed in 30 years and I'm hoping that we can continue to do some bipartisan things that will really help our communities and and the victims that are here and and their families to solve some of the problems because there's still a lot to be done. It was a a a a promising first step.
▶ 1:39:55However, President Trump is now defunding the programs that that bill created cutting off resources for for for school safety for community violence intervention and and and and crisis response for mental health services. These are proven community driven strategies that that save lives. So gutting them doesn't make us safer.
▶ 1:40:20It puts more of us at greater risk of violence and over the past several years local officials in Charlotte have been committed to making the city a safer place and I commend the council and those who have been working to do that. This year the Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department's mid-year public safety statistics show violent crime is down 25% including a 29% reduction in homicides.
▶ 1:40:47And so the city council and the metropolitan transit commission here in have doubled the number of Charlotte area transit system security personnel. And since 2022 they have more than tripled their security budget from 5.8 million to 18 million dollars a year.
▶ 1:41:06Now I want to say I served 20 years in the North Carolina house with with the congresswoman here and I understand the budgetary concerns that that they have as well. But in the last several weeks responding to the first homicide the first homicide you know any homicide is bad.
▶ 1:41:28But the the first one on the blue line in its entire 18 years of running local officials have taken additional steps to to enhance security through Charlotte's blue line.
▶ 1:41:42Governor Stein's budget also has called for more funding to address law enforcement vacancies and to ensure that we're hiring more well-trained police officers to keep our community And so as we are joining this hearing today I hope that we will take a comprehensive approach to our conversation about public safety that includes talking also about mental health.
▶ 1:42:05A report released by the Department of Justice's Bureau found that nearly two in five people who are incarcerated have a history of mental illness and so 7.5 people will lose Medicaid coverage under this next decade if this big ugly bill that's called the beautiful bill is going to hurt a lot of beautiful people if it stays.
▶ 1:42:28Medicaid is the singlest large single largest payer for mental health in the US and we've got to make sure that people's health is is cared for. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Let me just say public health is public safety. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady. I will now recognize Mr. Calli of the great state of California. Thank you Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:42:54Thank you to our witnesses for the incredible courage that you've shown in sharing with America the the heartbreak and and horror that you've endured. Please continue to advocate. Yours are the most powerful voices in trying to prevent other parents and grandparents from experiencing the the horror and heartbreak that you have.
▶ 1:43:18We will never be able to fully eradicate crime from our communities, but we can reduce those crimes that result from failed politics, from radical ideologies, from insane policies. And the reality is that far too many tragedies like of the kind that we've heard about today are preventable if we just had a little more common sense when it comes to public safety.
▶ 1:43:44In jurisdictions like this one and far too many places across this country the sense that crime is just a fact of life has become far too entrenched. This is just the way it has to be a set of sense of political complacency has sunk in to the point that according to the latest state of safety survey from SafeWise the organization SafeWise half of Americans do not feel safe in their own communities.
▶ 1:44:14And this is true more true nowhere else than in my own state of California where according to the same survey 64% of Californians feel a high daily level of concern for their safety which is the highest of any state in the nation. 72% of Californians say they are highly concerned about violent crime happening to them. Also the highest of any state in the country. So this is not just a abstract issue.
▶ 1:44:41These are the vast majority of people saying that they've heard about the sort of horrors that we've heard about today and they fear that it could happen to them or to someone they love. This sense of lawlessness is seen in the ordinary conditions of life for people as well. In Los Angeles the police chief has advised people do not wear your jewelry when you go outside. People have to walk through homeless encampments on their way to work with all manner of drug use and other unlawful activity.
▶ 1:45:12You walk into a CVS or a basic store and your shampoo and conditioner is under lock and key because theft is so rampant. We see that in Washington DC as well. You probably see it here in Charlotte. So these and in fact in my own state of California we just had an incident two weeks ago where in apparently an act of politically motivated violence an individual fired three shots into a local news organization and he was at large for some time and then we all breathed a sigh of
▶ 1:45:42relief when he was apprehended. Thankfully no one was hurt. The shots didn't hit anyone, but then he was immediately released. A man who just fired three shots into a news studio. Fortunately there was a federal nexus. The FBI apprehended him soon after that, but this is the core of the problem. It's Criminology 101 that the best deterrent against crime is the certainty of punishment.
▶ 1:46:07And the way that many of these jurisdictions are set up is there's various dimensions to the criminal justice system that undermine the certainty of punishment. So if you're a criminal committing even a very serious crime you probably think there's not a very good chance you're going to get caught because the police departments are understaffed and they've been defunded. But then even if you do get caught there's a good chance you won't be prosecuted because you have these rogue district attorneys who don't prosecute crime.
▶ 1:46:35But then even if you do get prosecuted there's a pretty good chance you'll be let out on pre-trial release on bail or even maybe on unsupervised release without bail. Or then even if you are convicted then the punishments are so weak that it really won't be much of a punishment at The good news is public opinion has turned sharply against the sort of radical policies that have gotten to this to this point.
▶ 1:47:03Even in California last year Californians passed a proposition to make a crime illegal again by restoring appropriate consequences that passed with almost 70% of the vote despite opposition from the governor and the political establishment. We also saw some of these reckless district attorneys in our state removed from office and because of that we've actually seen a modest improvement in crime that is starting to to be felt in our state. So Mr.
▶ 1:47:32Chair I think this is precisely the time when we can say and we're seeing it in Washington DC by the way where we have a controlled experiment going on where you can at least turn a couple of the levers to increase the certainty of punishment and what do you know crime goes down. I think that we need to use that as an example for how we can bring public safety to communities across this country and I think that starts by the way first and foremost with supporting our law enforcement. So thank you to all the law enforcement with us here today. I yield back. Thank you Mr. Calli.
▶ 1:48:02Mr. Chairman I have three unanimous consent requests. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a memo from the Democratic staff of the House Judiciary Committee titled President Trump's pardons cheat victims out of an astounding 1.3 billion dollars in restitution fines allowing fraudsters, tax evaders, drug traffickers to keep ill-gotten gains.
▶ 1:48:25Without objection. And an article entitled SEC drops efforts to recruit recoup funds from the Trump clemency recipients dated September 19th, 2025 from the New York Times and an article titled Trump oversees all-time low in white-collar crime enforcement dated August 10th, 2020 from Bloomberg. Without objection.
▶ 1:48:48Mr. Chair I object. I I fail to see the relevance of any of those documents to this hearing and the life of Irana I I I do thank the gentleman, but it has been the past practice and policy on both sides of the aisle as far as entering something into the record, and I understand and when you speak, and you're going to have your opportunity, you'll be able to avoid that objection and why. Thank you.
▶ 1:49:15And just a point of clarification, all of that money would go into the crime victims fund. So, that money would go directly to victims of federal crime. So, by not recouping that money Um, no, I'm being lenient here. I you know, I got this problem. I always like to be a nice guy, but there's a point where um So, in order for us to move on, and again, you'll have your chance to speak, you would have to withdraw that objection or else we'll have to vote on it.
▶ 1:49:45I will I will withdraw. I have Thank the gentleman. Thank you. Okay. With that, I will ask I will recognize Ms. Lee from the great state of Florida. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like a number of my colleagues here today, I too am a former prosecutor. I I also am a former judge.
▶ 1:50:07And I know that when a judge considers the question of pretrial release, there is no more important consideration than safety to the community and risk to the innocent people who live When judges fail to consider a violent criminal history or when they're required to look away from a violent criminal history, we see absolutely tragic consequences.
▶ 1:50:37Our committee has been traveling the to try to tell the stories of the real people and the real families who have been forever and permanently affected by crimes of violence and crimes of violence that could have and should have been prevented with good criminal justice policies.
▶ 1:51:01These hearings are an effort to show that these tragedies are not numbers, they are not statistics, they are certainly not political theater. They are real stories of families, sons, daughters, whose lives are lost or permanently changed. As a mother, I thank you for being here and for being willing to share with us the stories of your families.
▶ 1:51:30There is nothing that could give better perspective on how how vital and critical it is for us to stop soft-on-crime policies that lead to these kinds of tragic results. Officer Campbell, I'd like to start with You mentioned that you and your colleagues, the day that you were injured and several of them killed, were responding to a call that involved a violent recidivist. Is that correct?
▶ 1:52:02That would be correct. Is that something that was unusual in your experience or is that something that happens to your you and your colleagues regularly? I would say that was an unusual
▶ 1:52:14Yes. Now, in your experience, is there a broader challenge related to violent recidivist being out on release before What effect does that have on your ability to do your job safely?
▶ 1:52:35as a speaking for as a police officer, I would say we spend a lot of our time chasing our tail and rearresting the same people that we arrested the week prior while the violent crime Um, a lot of crime is stopped just by our mere presence.
▶ 1:52:57But our presence is pulled because again, we continue to arrest and deal with the same people day in and day Mr. Woody, one thing that you mentioned was the concept of an unsecured bond or releasing someone on their own recognizance. Tell us if you would, your perspective on the significance of instead having a secured bond or or detaining someone pending trial.
▶ 1:53:29Co-signer is required an indemnitor per se. That indemnitor is going to be a family member, a close friend, a relative, or someone that has substantial collateral and something to lose if this defendant reoffends, if this defendant absconds, or if this defendant goes out and just thumbs his nose per se as the word was used earlier to the court. And Ms.
▶ 1:53:51Alderman, you mentioned something in your earlier testimony that I think is a really important point for everyone here to understand. And that is that it's been 5 and you're now and you're still waiting on a trial for the offenders in your granddaughter's case.
▶ 1:54:11That, Ms. Lee, is not uncommon in Mecklenburg County. We are not the only ones. The murder docket or whatever, I don't know the legali- legal terms, but murder trials are between five and seven, sometimes more, years behind. And that is outrageous.
▶ 1:54:35And what the district attorney's office will tell the victims, they did tell me, and they have told others that I've spoken to, time does not is not a friend to your case. Time only hurts your case.
▶ 1:54:51Um, when you have a heinous crime like, for example, cuz I'm here for Mary, what they did to Mary, they had the evidence, they had the people, they had a witness in Mary herself, because they had wanted to burn Mary's body in that And uh something that horrific is just put in line, just, you know, when you know, when they get to it. So, uh the they just they're just finishing up 2019.
▶ 1:55:20Mary was murdered in 2020. So, it that personally to me makes no sense. Every single person who was murdered, they there should be a swift prosecution and they should be prosecuted and it should be taken care of. Uh in addition to that, in my opinion, something as heinous as what they did to uh Mary and others in Mecklenburg County should be dealt with more swiftly. Thank you, Ms. Alderman. Mr.
▶ 1:55:49Chairman, I yield Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good good to be here. Um, you and I have traveled quite extensively and um into multiple jurisdictions to see uh the results, I think, of soft-on-crime policies within counties, within cities. Uh and unfortunately, I think Charlotte is no stranger to that, too. Uh to Officer Campbell, thank you for your bravery.
▶ 1:56:18Thank you for your commitment to law enforcement. And thank you for speaking up. Um, I had the opportunity yesterday on the way up here uh to talk to several members, um officers that serve uh this area uh who were fearful that if they spoke out or uh that if uh that if I attributed things to their name uh that they would somehow be penalized uh for that.
▶ 1:56:43And what they have said and what they said on the phone with me was uh really in line with what you've said, which is that these soft-on-crime policies, letting people out, letting people back out, letting reoffenders back out routinely, is a problem for what you do every day. Uh that they don't feel the support uh from the city council. They don't feel the support from the judges on things that they do. Even your own handbook really ties the hands of law enforcement in the things that you're able to do.
▶ 1:57:13Uh and I think that's certainly a concern. Uh to Mr. Woody, thank you for for speaking up about bail. You know, there was a 2023 study in California, Mr. Kelley's uh state, uh of the Yolo County District Attorney's Office, where California found that 70% of defendants released on no-cash bail went on to 70%.
▶ 1:57:34And the study found that defendants released on no-cash bail were twice as likely to be arrested for felonies and three times as likely to be rearrested for violent crimes compared to those who actually posted bail. Uh so, I think that's in line with what you said earlier. Uh Mr. Federico, uh you and I have had the opportunity to speak and it's just heart-wrenching to hear uh and to to uh to hear your testimony uh about Logan and what she faced.
▶ 1:58:00And and a lot of my questions today are going to be uh with uh in line with you because I really want to dive into this because this is not a uh uh unique to Charlotte or New York or California. This happened in my home state of South Carolina in Columbia. I don't represent Columbia, I want to dive into that. Um, you know, she was a beautiful young lady pursuing a a degree in education. She wanted to be a teacher. I mean, that is the the most altruistic and good profession that is out there. Uh and her life was cut short.
▶ 1:58:30And let's dive into that. So, Mr. uh your daughter's killer had 39 prior crimes. Is that correct? Uh yes, and 25 of them were felonies. 25 were felonies. Did he serve any time in prison? Uh he served a little over 600 days. So, if you took all 25 felonies and then you took all 39 crimes and he had actually served jail for those, what were what were his sentences supposed to Uh I believe
▶ 1:58:57took them all together and you added them up.
▶ 1:58:59Over 140-some-plus years. So, 140 years, but he served 600. Right. In 2014, he was charged with first-degree burglary and grand larceny. And if he was convicted, which Um he would have faced 20 years. Is that your
▶ 1:59:13correct. That he served 20 years from the 2014 felonies.
▶ 1:59:16How much time did he serve, do you know? I think 411 days. And then he was out. Yep. In 2023, he he was charged again with third-degree uh burglary and unlawful carrying of a pistol. Uh the court's comment on the public index of South Carolina says that the sentence would have been 5 years. Is that correct?
▶ 1:59:35Yeah. 2023 to 2028. Would have never met Logan. He would have never met Logan. He would have still been incarcerated. What happened in that in that sentencing? Do you remember? Uh he was paroled for compliance. Yeah, he served time served, I think, right?
▶ 1:59:50Time served and he
▶ 1:59:51114 days pending his trial. Time served. The maximum sentence of 5 years for third-degree burglary. And that's And that's with a felon with a gun. 2 years probation, too, right? Yep. Uh during that probation, uh while he was out, he reoffended again. Isn't that
▶ 2:00:072024. Yep. What was that charge, do you remember? I believe burglary. Or was it identity fraud?
▶ 2:00:11Yeah, identity fraud burglary and identity uh fraud, I believe. I know you're not a lawyer or a prosecutor or a public defender, but to your understanding, is identity fraud a a misdemeanor or a felony? Felony. It's a felony. Yeah. That's right. How much time do you think that he would have served if he had been convicted of that
▶ 2:00:28Probably 15 to 25. That's right. 10 years, actually. So, 10 years in 2024, he would have never met Logan. He served 600 days. Why was Mr. Dickey not in jail? Uh you know what? Um couple different reasons, but there was a couple fingerprint issues. Um but from what I uh Mr. Dickey wasn't in prison because uh most of his plea deals. Plea deals. Yeah.
▶ 2:00:55And they say fingerprints, but don't you think that the judges and the solicitor would have had access to other records? Well, listen, if the person who found out about the fingerprints issue found out about it in 10 minutes, they sure as hell could have found out about it. Now, if the if the judge or the Have you talked to the prosecutor, by the way, on on the current case? Uh just once in 4
▶ 2:01:15Who is his name? Uh Byron Gibson. You have not talked to him. Once in 4 months. Once in 4 months.
▶ 2:01:20murder of your daughter, you have not talked to the solicitor. We call them solicitors in South Carolina.
▶ 2:01:23That's correct. Um if if the last judge uh prior to this murder uh were in front of you, what would you What would you say to that judge? And then after that, I'll yield after your answer. I'm not so sure I would say anything to him. I'm not so sure he would be in front of me. Take a look at my daughter. I don't have anything to say to him. What could I say? How he disappointed me.
▶ 2:01:54How he failed How he failed everybody in this community. How many Alexander Dickeys do you think are out in South Carolina right now? A lot. How many How many Mecklenburg? Heck, there was four murders in Charlotte last I mean, come on. This isn't working. It's not working for anyone. Thank you for your your bravery coming here today. I know it's not easy for any of the witnesses. Um and with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield Thank you. I recognize Mr. Knot from the state of North Carolina. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:02:24To the witnesses here, thank you for your your time. Thank you for your testimony. Ms. King, it's always good to see you again. Mr. Ashworth, I want to start with you. You talked about the decline in the homicide rates over the last time period. What time period specifically are you referring to? Uh in general, murder rose 30% nationally in 2020, had stayed generally at that level between 2020 and 2022, fell about 10% in 2023.
▶ 2:02:53Last year, the FBI had it at 14, 15%, and then so far, the best estimate is roughly a 20% decline this year. And what in terms of the the homicides that you're referring to, what are the overall numbers per year on average? 2014 is previously the lowest murder rate ever recorded in the US. It was about 14,500 in 20 20, it hit about 22,000. And are you referring to convictions, charges? No, this is just from police reporting.
▶ 2:03:22This has nothing to do with the prosecution angle. The only reason why I'm asking is you're aware that it's it's a it's a it is a homicide to sell a lethal dose of drugs. Correct? So, in this case, it's the difference between a homicide and a murder from the Interesting. the prosecution side, that can be a homicide, but from the way that the FBI is counting it, it would be a non-murder homicide.
▶ 2:03:44a a non-murder homicide. Okay. Well, a homicide result a criminal activity results in the death of the victim. Correct? Uh yes. And isn't it true that since 2000, there have been roughly a million five victims who have lost their lives because of overdoses? I I don't have that number, but I can Uh so, that's that's that's not as rosy as, you know, crime is going away, crime is decreasing. Correct? That's a million five.
▶ 2:04:121.5 million Americans over the last 20 years who are not captured in this batch of It's astounding. It's astounding. You're also aware that there was a leader in the uh Capitol Police Department, Mr. Michael Polium, who was suspended for manipulating crime data to make it appear that his community was safer than it actually was. Are you aware of that? Are you talking about Washington, D.C.? Yes. I'm familiar with the allegation. I believe that it's under investigation. Yes.
▶ 2:04:41Um so, it is potentially feasible that that the conclusions that you're deriving taken from police departments are not the full picture. Uh I believe that it is the full picture. I think
▶ 2:04:53you do, but it's possible. I'm just asking if it's possible. So, crime data is very flawed. You just disregarded 1.5 million dead Americans Well, I'm not disregarding the data.
▶ 2:05:02that we are in a safer community now.
▶ 2:05:05overdoses are falling this year. I think that I can appreciate it.
▶ 2:05:09because they've been so elevated. Well, and they're falling because we have protected the American citizens by securing the border. What one can appreciate a trend that we are seeing currently, a downward trend in both overdoses, we're seeing a downward trend in murder, we're seeing a downward trend in violent crime, while also not saying that these trends are acceptable, that the problem is solved.
▶ 2:05:26here and look at and talk to the people on the ground in Charlotte, sir, I would submit that your conclusions are not tethered to reality. Officer Campbell, I want to talk to you just briefly about various initiatives. There's been a lot of discussion about partisanship and how the Democratic Party is not soft on crime. And there are some Democrats who are not soft on crime.
▶ 2:05:50But in terms uh defunding the police, a clarion call for the Democratic Party, does that make us more or less safe? I would say it makes us less safe. What about working feverishly against long-term incarceration? Is that more or less safe? Less safe. Uh Mr. Woody, what about cashless bail? Again, that's a uniquely partisan funded by Democrats nationally, locally, and state level. Does that make us more or less safe? Cashless bail makes us less safe.
▶ 2:06:21Mr. Campbell, in regards to the complete disregard of our borders, our immigration laws, does that make us more or less safe? Uh less safe. What about decriminalizing all drugs? That's a partisan initiative in some parts of the country. More or less safe? Uh less What about funding NGOs, tens of billions? We talk about funding, we talk of billions of dollars over the last 4 years that was handed directly to people who were here illegally.
▶ 2:06:49Does that make us more or less safe? Be less safe. So, it seems to me that we have an ideology problem, not a funding problem. And would you say would you say it's a coincidence that the top 10 most dangerous cities in the country are led locally by Democrats? Is that a coincidence? Mr.
▶ 2:07:18Frederico, I want to ask you um there's been a lot of discussion about you cannot incarcerate your way to public safety. Do you agree with that? Well, how How can we find out? We don't do it. Right. I mean, there's percentages out there that after 3 years six after 3 years of release, 68% of them are are rearrested. Right. So, we've got to figure it out first. Put Put them there first, then let's do the math. Right. If someone has 39 arrests, 25 felonies, you think they've earned the right to be in a jail cell?
▶ 2:07:48He has probably one of the best resumes of a criminal Do you think he deserves mental health or he deserves to be in jail? I think he deserves to be dead. Ms. Alderman, in regards to your your tragedy, again, thank you for being Did your Did the criminal who affected you so mildly, did he deserve mental health or did he deserve to be in jail? The criminal
▶ 2:08:10expired, but I'll let you finish that question. The criminals who killed Mary are not mentally ill, so it's not a concern of mine. Thank you. Um Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent request. Just one this time.
▶ 2:08:26I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article from Reuters dated September 29th, 2025, entitled um exclusive federal drug prosecutions fall to lowest level in decades as Trump shifts focus to
▶ 2:08:44Without objection. You recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Harris. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank you to all of my colleagues for coming to be a part of this. I want to thank you for holding this hearing here in the city of Charlotte. I moved to 20 years ago, brought my family here to become the pastor of First Baptist Church here in downtown Charlotte.
▶ 2:09:09And I can tell you that in that 20 years, the Charlotte that we have discussed here today, there's a lot of issues that I think all of us have recognized. And quite frankly, I'm I'm very thankful to have an opportunity for us to converse on how we can make it safer in for its residents and its visitors. All of us here in this room and across the country have seen the video of the tragic murder of Irina Zurutsca. We've heard the harrowing stories that all of you have shared today.
▶ 2:09:37And I again, I add my heartfelt condolences to you, but my incredible admiration for your strength and resolve and courage to continue to tell the stories. And you cannot quit telling them. And I'm very grateful for your willingness to step up. But in the case of Irina Zurutsca, De Carlos Brown, Jr., we know had a long criminal history.
▶ 2:09:59And despite this, in his last encounter with the law prior to murdering Irina, Magistrate Teresa Stokes released him back into the community with only a simple, and I quote, written promise to appear for his Now, sadly, it's all too common for a criminal to be let off easy by a judge only to have him turn around and commit even worse crime. And you know, and I know, this is unacceptable.
▶ 2:10:30Officer Campbell, I want to turn to you quickly. Have you encountered situations where individuals with a history of violent crime were released and you saw later reoffended? Um that would be majority of the people I arrested. The majority. Thank you, sir. In your view, how do lenient bail policies impact crime in Charlotte? It would increase it because they know they're not going to be held accountable.
▶ 2:10:53And how do you, as a police officer, feel when these criminals are arrested and are shortly released immediately back into the I feel like majority of the work that I've done was pointless because they'll be out on the streets while I'm still writing the report. Well, in my view, lenient bail policies are not working in the city of Charlotte or cities across this nation.
▶ 2:11:17Criminals need to know that when they get arrested, they will not be immediately released on just an unsecured bond or written promise to appear. In fact, I want to share a story that former Union County DA John Snyder shared with me years back. A man was arrested just over the Charlotte border in Union County and that I represent. Being a repeat offender in Charlotte, he suddenly noticed that the police car was headed in the opposite direction of Mecklenburg County jail.
▶ 2:11:46After raising this concern with the police officer, he was informed he had been arrested in Union County, not Mecklenburg. And upon hearing hearing this, the man began sobbing because he knew he was going to jail that night and would spend the night in jail. Jurisdictions across the state should strive to send a similar message wherever you are.
▶ 2:12:11Many of those issues need to be dealt with by our North Carolina General Assembly as we've heard today. And I'm glad to see that they're already doing so with the passage of Arena's Law. And I'm certainly praying and I hope all of you are urging Governor Stein to find the courage to sign it into law. And Mr. Woody, turning to you, could you please describe for all of us the changes that Arena's Law would make to North Carolina system for bail?
▶ 2:12:37In accompanying with the Pretrial Integrity Act, an offender who reoffends is automatically held 48 hours or until they see a judge in front of first appearance. In addition to that, it would release it would recuse the people from having an unsecured bail. They'd be required to post a cash bail secured by a through a bail bondsman or a family member property or assets through an Well, and thank you for sharing that. And I believe Congress has got to take action as well.
▶ 2:13:03We cannot sit by and allow these mismanaged cities to put Americans in danger. In fact, I'm going to be introducing two bills in the next week, one for accountability, the other for transparency. As one of them's going to ensure jurisdictions that get federal grants for public safety do not defund their police or implement cashless bail lest they lose any of those government funds.
▶ 2:13:28And one to require the Department of Justice to publicly identify every jurisdiction in this country that implements these cashless bail policies. And I look forward to working with my colleagues on the Judiciary Committee to deal with these important matters. In just my last few seconds, let me say, Mr. Federico, how has Logan's tragic death shaped your view of the criminal justice system? very disappointing.
▶ 2:13:59Um when criminals have more rights and are respected more than an innocent young woman at age 22, um it should send send a shock wave to to everyone. To everyone. Absolutely. Well, again, let me just say thank you to all of you for sharing your stories. Please keep sharing your story. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Moore from the great state of North Carolina. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:14:30And I want to thank the committee for being here today. I am proud proud to represent Charlotte in Congress, part of Charlotte. And um uh while I'm glad that the committee is here, I certainly hate the circumstances under which that the committee has to be to our to our our witnesses here, I I have no words. Um some of you I've talked to before, some this is the first time.
▶ 2:14:54And uh the the tragic deaths that you all have discussed, that you have lived that you're living through, Officer Campbell, your injuries are are things that should never ever have happened. Um and I I do want to push back on some of the argument that this is a money issue. This is not a money issue. Uh this is a policy issue. Uh this is a choice that is made by often by magistrates. And I can give you some examples. One is recent just a couple weeks ago.
▶ 2:15:21Uh two two of the district attorneys in two of the neighboring counties I represent, Travis Page from Gaston County, Mike Miller from Cleveland County are here. And um I I I can tell you a story that I think is very telling. And this happened just September 3rd. So this is very recent. Uh a a a a guy by the name of John Alexander was accused of breaking into a Belmont Abbey college dorm room and sexing a sexually assaulting a student. That happened in Gaston County.
▶ 2:15:49However, he was initially arrested here in Mecklenburg County. Guess what his bond was, Mr. Chairman? Here the bond was set at $50,000. He made bond. Once the case once he the case got transferred over to Gaston County, the the district attorney and the judge there raised the bond to And and so that this person will be incarcerated. That's an example from just a few weeks ago right here showing the difference.
▶ 2:16:17And the fact that you have this pattern happening right here in in the two counties that I hear about the most, the complaints about, are Mecklenburg County and and Durham County. Those are the two that I hear about most often when I talk to law enforcement officials all around the state. And that it's just and and it all tends to come down to and frankly here in Mecklenburg, the criticism has not been with the district attorney.
▶ 2:16:42It's been more with the with the magistrates and the judges giving just letting these criminals come in and go right out the door. I mean, Officer Campbell, you just testified there are times when you're still doing the and the criminal is walking back out on the street. Is that correct?
▶ 2:16:58That would be correct. And and just curious, I mean, how is that like is that more often than not or is that just kind of a rare thing? No, it happens quite frequently. I mean, that should not be hap That should shock everyone. And that should make the drive the point home that this is not about money or programs or whatever else in some of these feel-good programs that get kicked around out there to try to divert people from jail. There are people who are dangerous and they need to be incarcerated.
▶ 2:17:25And I'll tell you the other problem that we have and that is a lawsuit couple decades ago. I think the ACLU filed at wanted to get folks out deinstitutionalized folks with serious mental issues. Well, guess what you have now? You have people out on the streets. Your homeless problem has gone through the roof. You know, you you can't go anywhere without seeing homeless encampments even in my small town of Kings Mountain. Uh where this where this is happening. It's happening all over the country.
▶ 2:17:53And it's because of these these leftist policies of trying to get people deinstitutionalized who have mental issues. And guess some people need to be in the community, but guess what? There are dangerous people who should not have been in the community. And I point to the situation with with Irina Zurutsca. Not only should this guy have not been out on bond from previous things, but why didn't somebody involuntarily commit this guy, right?
▶ 2:18:16I mean, this guy, you know, whether whatever you want to say, this guy should not have been on the And these policies have to change. But guess what? It's a question of what's happened when it comes to judicial officials around because you don't hear this as much in some of the other counties. I mean, you've got a data pool that you can look at. Uh and and for those who are hearing the public or whatever, I mean, you've got two neighboring district attorneys sitting out in the audience today. Talk to them after this hearing. Get them to talk to you about about what the stats look like in in their counties.
▶ 2:18:46Um Uh just I just want I want these I want these victims' families to know that that I you you were not done properly. This This Your Your Your loved ones were not provided justice. That has to change. I To the family of Arena I have had the opportunity to speak with her uncle. Absolutely tragic.
▶ 2:19:09Leaving a war-torn country, coming here, starting over, only to be murdered by some animal who should have been behind bars on this light rail. Just unspeakable. I just want I just want these family members to know I want her family member to know Officer Campbell who now lives with a disability because I want you to these stories are not in vain, that change has to come.
▶ 2:19:33I appreciate your courage in being here today and I appreciate the the the message that's being sent forth. And And Mr. Chairman, I appreciate this committee going around the country because the American people are sick and tired of this and it has to change and it's going to change. With that, I yield Gentlemen yields. I thank the gentleman and I recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Rouser. I thank you, Mr.
▶ 2:19:59Chairman, and and I want to thank you for allowing those of us who are not on the Judiciary Committee to join you here today. My primary committee assignments are Transportation and Infrastructure and Agriculture and Science and Technology. And but first, I want to tell each of my heart. Boy, my heart really goes out to you. It is what you have had to endure.
▶ 2:20:29And um I can tell you that all of us here are going to work very very hard to make sure that justice is achieved. It may take a little bit, but we're going to work hard. I also want to acknowledge that my mind and heart are with my friends and in our community of Southport which is in my district.
▶ 2:20:52And um it strikes me that we have a real issue of the of a moral what I'll call a moral and spiritual crisis in this country that uh needs to be addressed as part of the big picture as well.
▶ 2:21:11Given my role on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee where I'm chairman of highways and transit we're in the process of writing a um highway bill for lack of a better way to put it. And that's going to include an opportunity to make modifications to our transit programs. And one of the things that I've observed through my research that is really interesting to me and quite appalling fare avoidance.
▶ 2:21:41You know, folks get on these on these light rails and they're not paying any fare whatsoever. That was the case you know, with the murder here in Charlotte a a few weeks Mr. Campbell, if I could ask you um is that something that you personally witnessed a good little bit? Is it lack of resources or lack of commitment to police these light rail cars and make sure people are paying their fares?
▶ 2:22:10Well, the light rail system is controlled by cats and they employ their own security. Right. Um More cops to me would not be the answer. I mean, cats can control their own fares. But there's never been a a system you know, checks to see if they paid their fare or not in the first place. Well, you know, one of the fundamental principles is you get more of whatever you incentivize.
▶ 2:22:40And if people do bad and they're not reprimanded and there's no consequence, they're going to continue to to avoid paying any fare. I think that's definitely an issue that we'll we'll look at in the context of our of our highway bill.
▶ 2:22:55I know we have some great and fine citizens of this community, David Longo and many other business leaders who are working to enhance the community here for the for the future and and and are working on those specific issues and I appreciate them for their their commitment and and dedication to it.
▶ 2:23:14But when you have public transportation systems that the average person does not want to ride that makes it very very difficult you know, to to keep them financially viable and and sound. And of course is a you know, really a um a problem for the community as a whole cuz after all, you know, taxpayers are are paying for them. Let me ask you, Mr. Woody, switching gears a little bit.
▶ 2:23:43I'm just curious your thoughts on this. Do you think magistrate judges are under political or institutional pressure pressure to release offenders with minimal bail even in violent cases? I think magistrate officials are given a bail schedule and whether they adhere to that bail schedule or not, I think it'll be under their own accord. Let me also, Mr. Campbell, back to you.
▶ 2:24:10Based on your experience in law enforcement, have you observed a correlation between the implementation of more lenient criminal justice policies and an increase in violent crime in the Charlotte region? Yes. Unequivocally, yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank the gentleman. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent request.
▶ 2:24:31I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record an article written by Rachel Crumpler and Taylor Knapp titled Charlotte Light Rail kill killing exposes gaps in NC's mental health system published by the NC Health News on September 25th, 2025. Without objection, I also have a couple of UCs.
▶ 2:24:51One is this new Senate Judiciary Report, the Grassley Report, which shows Biden DOG DOJ sent taxpayer-funded grants to Soros-backed soft-on-crime NGOs. That money, your tax money, actually went there. I also have another unanimous consent uh or from the City Journal, Are Crime Statistics Reliable? The agencies from that article process is shrouded in mystery and its numbers are often inconsistent and inaccurate.
▶ 2:25:21Um with that, I will recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Edwards. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and again, I appreciate the opportunity to be waved on to this committee to visit Charlotte and to hear from this fine panel of witnesses. To each of you, thank you for being here. Thank you for your courage. I want to apologize to you first of all.
▶ 2:25:50I find it interesting that we've heard in many situations from the folks that have talked today efforts to distract us from what the actual issues Efforts to create diversions from the horrible stories that we've heard from our witnesses here today. We've heard Okay.
▶ 2:26:16this issue politicized with documents that have been entered that have absolutely nothing to do with the relevance of your stories. And I I apologize to you for that. Frankly, I'm embarrassed that way too many times this is the way Congress operates.
▶ 2:26:36But I can promise you that while this behavior might be taking place up here with this panel, your stories have resonated with every member that's up And we will remember these when we get back to Washington, D.C.
▶ 2:26:57I apologize that we're hearing from folks that just say, "Give me more money and I'll fix the problem." That's typically what we hear with about any problem that I faced in Washington, D.C. Give me more money and then I'll fix it. If there's anybody here that believes that simply reaching deeper into their pockets will fix this problem please leave a collection over here in front, Ms. Ross, before you leave today. We've heard that less guns on the streets by law-abiding citizens would fix this problem. Ms.
▶ 2:27:27Alderman, let me ask you. Would less guns on the streets by law-abiding citizens, would that have saved Mary's life? No, not not in Mary's case. Absolutely not.
▶ 2:27:42It would It would It would not. I ask you, Mr. Woody, while no I don't think anybody here is an expert on Arena Zarutska, do you believe that less guns on the streets by law-abiding citizens would have saved her life? Absolutely not. And yet we're turning our conversations towards those types of things.
▶ 2:28:03We heard up here that Charlotte has the eighth safest crime rate eighth best crime rate in in in the country. Ms. Alderman do you take solace in knowing that somebody wrote an article that Charlotte has the eighth best in the country? Does that help you? I don't care. Exac- exactly. That has nothing to do It's completely irrelevant.
▶ 2:28:31with us saving Mary's life. We heard up here that I think it was Ms. Adams that mentioned that there's been a 25% reduction in violent crime. I think we heard something similar from uh from Mr. Mr. Ashner. Mr. Woody? Well, I'll ask Mr. A reduction of 25%? Does that give you any solace? I'd like to see where it was.
▶ 2:29:00It certainly wasn't in our daughter's case. I can tell you that right now. We heard up here that we should feel comfortable that in 2022, Biden signed the Bipartisan Communities Act. Mr. Federico, would that Does Do you take any solace in that? Does that give you any comfort at all? No. There's only one thing that would have kept my daughter alive, and that would have been keeping a career criminal in prison. Exactly. And so, I apologize to you. There's been so many distractions to what the conversation really should be up here.
▶ 2:29:32We've heard a number of times that there's a failure of policy, and I can buy that in some cases. Definitely, we need to eliminate cashless bail. That's a policy that we should go after. I would suggest more than policy, more policy, we need transparency, and we need accountability to the people that are charged with implementing those Mr. Woody, I'm about to run out of time, and I know you're probably not an expert on the court system.
▶ 2:30:02By the way, thank you for your service in law enforcement, most of which I understand was in my district. So, thank you very very much. Uh how are magistrates selected in North
▶ 2:30:13Magistrates are appointed. And they're appointed by the chief superior court judge. Which are selected? They're elected. They're
▶ 2:30:22The rest of the superior court judges are elected.
▶ 2:30:24And so, what I think I hear you saying is that we as citizens, communities, can elect folks to implement those policies, and it may be that we need more policies or more reporting to make the accountability a bit more transparent. I'm out of time. We could go on this forever. Thank you all. I appreciate you being here. Gentlemen yields. I thank the gentleman. I recognize Mr. Harrigan from North Carolina. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses today.
▶ 2:30:54I genuinely appreciate your heartfelt testimony. And it is something, as Mr. Edwards has said, that will resonate with all of us forever. You have that commitment from us. Uh I find it personally disgusting that members of this committee have suggested that this is political theater for the purpose of negotiating an open seat while distracting from the fact that violent repeat offenders are continually let free from our judicial system.
▶ 2:31:24That is the problem that we have, and that is the only problem that we have, period. We've had a lot of talk about money today. I will actually give DA Meriwether some credit. He got together with local business leaders and local government officials to decide, "Okay, hey, what is the minimum amount that we actually really need in order to get the job done?" Because from his words, he said, "I don't want to throw money at this problem." Because the problem really isn't money.
▶ 2:31:51And out of the 10 additional DAs that he needs with five additional staff assistants, that's exactly what the state legislature has authorized, and it's just waiting on Governor Stein's signature to be put into law. That's happening.
▶ 2:32:06But we've got to understand that the lack of 10 DAs in a system that has 84 DAs already is not the problem, and it's mutually exclusive from the problem of judicial posture with respect to judges and magistrates simply allowing violent repeat criminals back on our streets, as well as trial delays, which, as we all know, over the course of time, we lose witnesses, we lose accuracy of testimony.
▶ 2:32:34It degrades the system of justice that we have. We cannot allow this to continue to stand. But what I find absolutely is politicizing committee testimony here today in front of these victims and the families of these victims saying that this is for political purposes. Mr. Ascher talked about statistics today.
▶ 2:33:04The statistics that he entered into his testimony today about declining crime are only through June of 2025. It does not talk about July, August, or September. And you know what's happened in July, August, and September? The murder rate has skyrocketed in Charlotte.
▶ 2:33:21We are picking and choosing what type of statistics we want to share to forge a narrative that is detached from reality, and that narrative does not line up to the experience of Officer Campbell, Mr. Federico, and Ms. Alderman. Let us not forget that.
▶ 2:33:42One of my Democratic colleagues said, "Don't judge us by what we say, but what we do with respect to money." Let me be very clear, the sole force behind defunding the police has been the Democratic Party. Period. They have created unrest. They have created a desire within our population to not step up and serve in law I had a long meeting with Johnny Jennings, the former chief of police in And I asked for a meeting. I said, "What's working? What's not working?
▶ 2:34:11I want to go through everything so that I might be able to help you." And at the end of what was supposed to be a 45-minute meeting that actually lasted 3 and 1/2 hours, he said, "Mr. Harrigan, I just want to thank you." And I said, "Why, Chief?" And he said, "Because not one time in my entire 30 years, has an elected official asked to talk to me about what's working, what's not and that let me know that they had my Not one member of the Charlotte City Council, not one member
▶ 2:34:42of the Mecklenburg County Commission, not the mayor, not a single congressperson had ever come before him and asked, "How can we help?" as opposed to just absolutely running him through the mud when things didn't go their way in traditional media. Guys, we have a problem here.
▶ 2:35:06We have a very real problem that we need to work together to solve, but we have to understand what is the root of this problem. And it is, as Mr. Moore said, it is not money. It is poor policy built on poor principle that is leading us down the road to failed outcomes. We have failed leaders who are leading us down the road to failed outcomes, and it's their kids that paid the price.
▶ 2:35:36That's got to stop. I've got a daughter, two daughters, Reagan and McKinley. They're 6 and 8. And God forbid if something like that ever happened to I could not be a civil citizen. Mr. Federico, I thank you for your restraint today. God bless you. I yield back. The gentleman yields. I recognize Mr. Schmidt from the great state of Kansas. I He's Thank you, Mr.
▶ 2:36:04Chairman, and want to thank all of our witnesses, but particularly the family members or the victims themselves, the case of Officer I have not met any of you personally prior to but I feel like I know you. I've spent 12 years as attorney general in our state. I spent a lot of time with families who have lost everything.
▶ 2:36:30I always made a point to sit down with families before we made charging decisions or plea decisions or management decisions on a case because I thought that was important to understand as we were acting on behalf of the state of Kansas within the boundaries of the law and the evidence that was in front of us. I want to thank you for stepping forward and express my unbelievable uh uh sorrow with you even though we've not met before today.
▶ 2:37:02You know, I don't know how it is here in North Carolina. I'm learning how it is in Washington, D.C. when we debate criminal justice policy, but I'll tell you how it was in Kansas for a lot of years when I served in in public policy Our legislature would say all the right things, including me when I was serving there.
▶ 2:37:23And then it would come crunch time, and it was time to make numbers fit, and it was budget time, and we always ended up in the public safety context in a conversation about bed space in our prisons and the con- the cost uh managing inmates or offenders on the back end. And then we had very smart people, and I say this genuinely, like Mr. Ascher, who I have not met before, but I've heard his presentation through a lot of smart folks that sit and crunch who tell us how to back into public safety decisions.
▶ 2:37:50And then we would make those decisions, and I'd often vote against them because it ended up with the decision being that you had decided how many people you were willing to pay to correct, and then you were deciding who went to the top of the list to be corrected. And everybody else wound up on early release, they wound up on work release, perhaps they wound up with a cashless bail option. We didn't have that in Kansas, we repealed that. I always thought that was backwards. I always thought you ought to sit down with individuals who had lost a loved one or who were themselves victims of crime.
▶ 2:38:20You ought to make policy decisions based on what you thought justice was in an individual case, then you ought to make resource decisions based upon what your policy decisions were on what justice demanded. And I thought that was correct even as a fiscally conservative guy because I think public safety is a core function of state and local government and of the federal government within our boundaries. And so, I I guess I would just ask um, I'm going to start with with Mis- Ms. King because she's worked the system uh as a prosecutor.
▶ 2:38:49I mean, do you share that general philosophy that we ought to decide who we need off the streets first, then figure out what it costs as opposed to deciding how much we're willing to spend and then figure out who we can get off the streets with the resources available? I think the criminal justice system is dependent upon who commits the crime. And so, who commits the crime is who the resources, whether that's investigation, prosecutorial, that's how those resources are allocated.
▶ 2:39:17Working cases against the individuals that commit the Officer Campbell, how about you? You've seen both sides of the system now. I don't know where you want me to begin. Wherever you think's appropriate.
▶ 2:39:41We sit here and we allocate funds and time and equipment to arresting one person. Go through the system, they're already back out. They commit another crime before they have the court case. Now you got two court cases. It just keeps piling up. So, that's that would be my experience in this whole thing. Mr. Woody, you deal with a particular slice of the offender population at a particular moment in time. Any thoughts on that general approach?
▶ 2:40:10I think the general approach would be that there has to be some some sort of accountability for the offender. We start with the accountability at the date of arrest and the accountability follows them throughout the duration of the charge. So, the snowball effect doesn't begin. I think uh cashless bail has no accountability for the offender. They're released 1 day, 2 days, 3 days with no uh consequences versus secured bail.
▶ 2:40:33If they go through a secured bail process, they have uh someone with collateral, someone with skin in the game to verify that they go to the court system. Mr. Frederico. The safety the safety of it has to come first. And if that is putting somebody in prison right away and not letting them go until until it's ready as far as their The you have to think of the community first. Nobody thought of the community first.
▶ 2:41:0139 arrests, 25 felonies. Come on. Seriously. Who who can possibly explain that to me? So, it has to be you put them in there, we'll worry about it later. We'll figure it out. Simple as that. Amen, sir. And I believe I'm out of time. I I would ask Ms. Alderman, but um I'll leave it to the chairman on that. Thank the gentleman. Both of you, actually.
▶ 2:41:30We uh let me get my place here. Yes, Mr. McDowell, I recognize Mr. McDowell, the gentleman from North Carolina. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to to each of the witnesses for being here today. Uh I want to first address something that one of my colleagues said to begin this hearing, which uh was that apparently all of the the folks on the Republican side are here to talk about catchy slogans and that's what we care about. And I I take offense to that.
▶ 2:42:00I think it's wrong uh and and I think it needs to be called out because uh 9 months ago I was sworn in to service member of Congress and the only reason that I ran for Congress was because my little brother is one of those statistics that Mr. Mr. Asher failed to mention. He was killed by fentanyl poisoning. this is not a statistic for me. Th- This is not a a catchy slogan. What this is is a way for me to get up and do something about it.
▶ 2:42:29I wouldn't be in Congress were it not for failed policies of Democrat politicians that left our border wide open. And so, I take offense to what uh my colleague said to begin this meeting that all we care about is catchy slogans because it's wrong. I know first hand, Mr. Frederico, what it's like to see that picture. A picture of a lost loved one uh that drives you, that motivates you.
▶ 2:42:54In my office, I I keep a picture of my brother that I have to see every single day before I go to vote so I remember why I'm here. And every day when I see him, I will see Because that's that's why I'm here. I'm here to do something about it. We're We're all here to do something about it.
▶ 2:43:16Because we cannot let these uh these beautiful people that are murdered by dangerous criminals who have been in and out of custody but never actually put in a box where they belong. We can't do nothing. There's been a lot of conversation today about uh funding and and mental health. And my wife is a therapist and I don't think, as good as she is, I don't think an hour a week with my wife would have saved Arena.
▶ 2:43:43Because I don't think that would have saved uh De'Carlos Brown's mental health. No, he's an animal, he's a criminal, and that is obvious by the horrific video that we saw. He belongs in a jail cell and it is a failure. I won't even call them leaders because they're not leaders because leaders would have made sure that he was in prison. They're elected officials that didn't do their job and they need to be called out for it. I hate that Mr.
▶ 2:44:11Asher is not here to to talk about the rosy statistics that he offered us today uh but I don't think that those rosy statistics really do anything for victims' families. And so, Mr. Frederico, I have I have a question for you. Do the statistics that Mr. Asher shared with us today, do they do anything to ease your pain? I think they're crap. I concur.
▶ 2:44:34Uh and unfortunately for uh the narrative that my friends on the other side of the aisle are trying to paint, I'm going to yield the rest of my time to Representative Knott to continue his Thank you, Representative McDowell. Um you know, it's it's it's it's alarming that we've been told it's a funding It's a mental health issue. You can't uh incarcerate your way or law enforcement your way out of of crime.
▶ 2:45:03Um stats tell you, Charlotte, that you're safe, so sit down and be quiet. It's outrageous. It's outrageous. And their sta- And their statistician said, "Disregard 1.5 million dead Americans." That law enforcement data that he utilized is inherently flawed. But sit down and be quiet because you're I found it I again, I find it outrageous. Um we do not have an a uh spending problem.
▶ 2:45:29We have an ideology And when we start to look at behavior as some sort of collective trend or uh some sort of disparate impact if we actually police rather than what one person does, does he or she deserve to be charged and We're going to be way off course. That's it. Justice is blind. If you commit a crime, you deserve to be prosecuted. And I hate to say this, but I've been very convicted up here.
▶ 2:45:57If any of us on this row right here had something stolen from us, if we were slapped, punched, shoved to the ground, do you think that we would be crying mental health? I find it laughable. I find it laughable. And I'm astounded that we look at the brutal murder of Arena. How anybody could conclude this is a mental health crisis is astounding. I'm short on crime I mean, on time.
▶ 2:46:26Um Ms. King, let me just ask you one tool that I think is underutilized is the task force officer model. Can you briefly summarize how we can implement that around the country to force multiply for good? Absolutely. The uh the task force model, which was best utilized through the organized crime drug task force, um combines resources at both the federal and the state level, law enforcement, and even prosecutors.
▶ 2:46:53Um the benefit of that is because often times local law enforcement, they know the drivers of the violent crime on the street. They're in the community every day. They know those repeat offenders. Um however, the federal law enforcement often times does in fact have more resources, whether that be money to um throw at investigations and or manpower. And so, combining those tools really does make a bigger and better impact. They're able to make bigger and better better cases.
▶ 2:47:23Um and really, they're able to focus their attention on specific problems such as violent crime. In my experience as a prosecutor, the most violent people I was ever able to prosecute were in fact a result of a task force model. And so, um I would echo that. I know the OCDEF program has been dismantled. I would echo that bringing back programs such as that are in fact um tremendously instrumental in our communities.
▶ 2:47:50Yeah. Thank you. The gentleman yields and the gentleman yields. And uh last but not least, we have the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. You know, I I've I've sat here for what, 2 and 1/2 hours and heard members of that serve in Congress quote Quote statistics. Crime statistics statistics down in Charlotte.
▶ 2:48:19How does that help the the victims that are up here? What if uh Ms. King, if your daughter or your granddaughter or uh Congresswoman Ross and Adams used your time to quote how crime is down? What about calling your mayor out? Mayor Lyles, who failed to report the stabbing. Bring that picture up here. Who failed to report the stabbing. It happened in August 22nd. Where's your voice for that?
▶ 2:48:46Where's your voice for those for the children who were as my colleague mentioned were let across the border to tune of 20 million 20 million people by your president who opened the door. We finally had a president that stopped And you criticize Trump and quote quote statistics. Are you kidding me? Uh it's a disconnect. What about the 14,000 murders last year? What about that statistic? Uh what about the Mr. Federico?
▶ 2:49:16What you say? 39 39 violations? 25 felonies? He's out He's out. Um this is this is an insult. You could fill this entire room with victims all across Charlotte. And I'm from South Carolina. But you could fill you could take just a county and fill everybody here. And y'all using your voices members of Congress? No, it's it's it's more than about money.
▶ 2:49:44What do you What about cutting the pay of those judges who cut these criminals loose? What about Yeah, y'all put the handcuffs on the And you've you know you you put the handcuffs on the police instead of on the the victims. It makes it it's it's blows my mind as I sit here and hear this. Um let me give you a visual. Mr. Federico, I see your daughter.
▶ 2:50:16What about What about this? Mr. Chairman What about this? This is the moment before she Mr. Chairman, it's my time. It's not her It's the gentleman's time. It is It is the gentleman's time and it is his right as a member of Congress to test No, I see. What about Where Where was her What about that statistic? Did it help her? Tell me, did it help her? No, it did not. It's a miscarriage of justice.
▶ 2:50:42And for for members to sit up here and use their time uh it's it it's it's amazing that in America what happens here what happens to this young lady what happened to your daughter and your That's like a Mary. That's like That's what happens in third world countries. What happened to Charlie Kirk?
▶ 2:51:06That's what happens in third world And you got members of your party who uh many of which identified with the assassin. All I'm saying is this is not time for politics. This is not time for any any race. It's not time of any party. It's about time of justice. And like Mr.
▶ 2:51:26Federico said until we stop putting people in in prison no amount of no amount of heartbreak and try to decide is it mental illness? Is it whatever it is. I don't care what it was. They murdered right here. It's sick. And that's what we've got to correct. That's what many of us up here will stop or at least stop. And Ms.
▶ 2:51:51King, the uh we had a a perfect example of uh of a statistic I doubt you ever would hear of. It's a the law the former law enforcement from from my home state came up here for a uh a a bowling alley. His wife got assaulted. He jumped up and stopped it like the people failed to do with this lady. Uh he shot at him. I mean the the the the criminal. The he had the license plate tag and all.
▶ 2:52:20Guess what the police said? Can't prosecute. We don't have enough evidence. He said I've got the license number. I mean and so that statistic never showed up. The Charlotte police for whatever reason wouldn't report it. Uh the bottom line is until we start getting the law harder and start uh these these do-good policies uh have to go away. We got to start the crime needs to be prosecuted. And judges that don't do it, they ought to be replaced. So call for cutting their salary. I'm your back.
▶ 2:52:51Gentleman yields back. I know we have some unanimous consent on both side of the aisle. Mr. Fry, I believe you. Uh yes, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I've got two UCs. Uh one is an article in the National Police Association written by Doug Wiley. After 21 years as defense attorney, Byron Gibson isn't much of a Uh I also have a You want to do them all collectively? Okay.
▶ 2:53:16I also have uh the SLED report from Alexander Dickey, who was the murderer of um uh Logan Federico. Without objection. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Ross, I believe you have some ranking member.
▶ 2:53:31I have a few. Thank you. So I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a report written by Kylie Murdock and Jim Kessler, 21st Century Red State Murder Crisis, published by Third Way February 27th Without objection. Uh unanimous consent report written by Chandler Hall, Highest Rates of Gun Homicides Are in Rural Counties, published by the Center for American
▶ 2:53:55Without objection. Uh an article written by Nick Wilson um titled Trump Administration's Budget Will Undermine ATF's Effort to Prevent violent crime. And an article written by our witness Mr. Asher who had to leave, What to Do About Crimes um persistent
▶ 2:54:15Without objection. And then a unanimous consent to enter into the record an article written by Malcolm Waldron, Trump Defunds Effective Crime Prevention
▶ 2:54:27So I wanted Oh, Ms. Adams has one. I'm sorry. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter into the record ask unanimous consent uh to submit the CMPD report weekly crime report Charlotte Mecklenburg from August 24th to 20 2025 showing a 30% decline in homicides compared to the same period last year.
▶ 2:54:50Without objection. I want to apologize to to Rian's family uh for that photo. They don't want that continued to be used uh to politicize. And that's exactly what Your time has expired. Your time has expired. Mr. Chairman Any unanimous consent requests? Yes. I move to admit Heritage Podcast Blue City Murder Problem, The Left's Claim that America has a Red State Murder Problem is misleading and deflects from progressive soft-on-crime policies that have wreaked havoc. Without objection.
▶ 2:55:20So I want to thank you all for being here. I do want you to know one thing. Politics is what not what it should be sometimes, but I believe that the majority of folks up here really did hear you. For real. And we'll do the very best that we can. It concludes today's hearing. And we thank our witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee today.
▶ 2:55:41Without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for the record as so desired. The hearing is