▶ 0:07:52Morning, everyone. The subcommittee on indian and insular affairs will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time. The subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on four bills that are before us under committee. Rule four f. Any oral opening statements at hearings are limited to the chairman and the ranking minority member. I therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members opening statements be made part of the hearing record.
▶ 0:08:19If they are submitted in accordance with committee rule three. Oh, without objection, so ordered. I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman from california, Mr. issa, and the gentleman from hawaii, Mr. case, be allowed to sit and participate in today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the subcommittee on indian insular affairs.
▶ 0:08:46Even during the shutdown, the work of representing our constituents did not stop. But I am pleased that we can now return to this room to continue advancing bipartisan wins for indian country. Today, the subcommittee will consider four bills, each addressing a different aspect of tribal sovereignty, economic development, and land stewardship. First, h.r.
▶ 0:09:084276, sponsored by representative case of hawaii, would amend the native act to authorize grants to indian tribes, tribal organizations, and native hawaiian organizations for tourism initiatives. This bill carries a $35 million authorization from fiscal year 2025 to fiscal year 2029.
▶ 0:09:27I would note that, as drafted, it does not comply with the house's cutco requirement, and we will need to address that issue before it can move beyond today's hearing. Second, we will review h.r. 5005 15, the indian trust asset reform amendment act, which I am proud to co-sponsor, which I'm proud to sponsor with my democratic colleagues, representatives randall and hoyle.
▶ 0:09:52This legislation grew directly out of the subcommittee's february oversight hearing on itara. We heard clearly from tribal leaders that the original law was not implemented as congress intended. H.r. 5515 makes the itara demonstration project permanent. It expands eligibility. It clarifies the federal trust responsibility and removes barriers that have prevented tribes from participating.
▶ 0:10:21It is a straightforward and meaningful step toward greater tribal self-determination in managing trust assets. The third bill, h.r. 5682, offered by representative issa, would take 1261 acres of blm blm land into trust for the pechanga band of indians. The affected parcels are adjacent to existing trust land and encompass areas of deep cultural and religious significance, including portions of puca mountain.
▶ 0:10:50The bill would consolidate these sacred sites under unified tribal protection and management. Finally, we will consider h.r. 5696, the streamline act sponsored by representative lamalfa. This bill continues the important bipartisan work this committee has done on tribal self-governance.
▶ 0:11:11It would allow self-governance tribes, self-governing tribes with compacted realty programs to conduct their own appraisals using federal standards, and require those appraisals to be accepted by the department of the interior. This is a practical reform that reduces bottlenecks, accelerates economic and housing projects, and respects the capacity tribes have already demonstrated.
▶ 0:11:34This bill stems from the house natural resources important self-governance work, including groundbreaking, bipartisan. The groundbreaking bipartisan field hearing that we had earlier this year in oklahoma city in april. We look forward to refining this legislation so that land transactions are more efficient and tribal sovereignty is strengthened. Each of these bills reflects constructive work by members on both sides of the aisle, and each addresses a real identified need in indian country.
▶ 0:12:04I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. We appreciate your expertise, your time, and your leadership. I look forward to a productive and bipartisan conversation on these important proposals. With that, the chair now recognizes the ranking minority member for any statement. >> thank you. Chairman.
▶ 0:12:26And it is indeed good to be back in this committee room so that we can do everything we can to assist tribes in your work, because it is really your work that we are here, uh, to support, because it is your work, uh, that is aimed protecting sacred sites, that's
▶ 0:12:57Aimed at implementing tribal sovereignty. It's our job to help you get there. And the bills that we are looking at today do just that. We know that tourism provides native communities with significant opportunities to share and preserve their cultures, create jobs, and strengthen local economies. In h.r.
▶ 0:13:1842, 76 would further support the resiliency of native communities in hawaii by clarifying the authoritative authority of federal agencies to provide grants to tribes, tribal organizations, and native hawaiian organizations for recreational travel and tourism activities. This is a bill that came over to us from the senate with bipartisan support, and I look forward to having it have similar bipartisan support in the house.
▶ 0:13:48Uh, and with regards to the chairman's, uh, indian trust asset reform amendment act, it would give tribes more authority over how they manage their trust assets. And indeed, we held a hearing in the same committee on it earlier this year. Witnesses shared with us the importance of it, but also the challenges that are faced with its implementation and sadly, the low participation rate by tribes.
▶ 0:14:16So the chairman's bill doesn't just continue our tower. It takes an important step to improve it so that more tribes can participate, and they can utilize it for additional activities like wildfire mitigation work.
▶ 0:14:32We also heard, however, at the hearing, um, that the experts were telling us that we need funding because we need to recognize that all of this great work, we are talking about.
▶ 0:14:48It only happens with boots on the ground, and to get boots on the ground, you actually have to pay staff to show up, uh, whether it is at their desk or, uh, out in the community. And sadly, we have seen the trump administration slash budgets for tribes and tribal activity.
▶ 0:15:09And I am very pleased at the manner in which congress has responded by restoring that funding in our proposed, uh, at, um, appropriations. So I'm looking forward to making sure that even as we pass this bill, that we work together to get the appropriations to support it so that we can have that personnel, uh, the h 5682 would take in approximately 1261 acres of land into trust in riverside
▶ 0:15:40County, california, uh, and managed by the blm for the benefit of the pechanga band of indians. This area being taken into trust for the pechanga band of indians allows you to steward your lands within your ancestral territory.
▶ 0:15:57We know because you have shared with us how deeply connected these lands are to your history, to your story, and they should be in your hands in management. And I look forward to hearing from you about that legislation. And finally, we have h.r. 5696 from representative lamalfa.
▶ 0:16:19We do need to improve the process of taking land into trust and improving the appraisal process is key. Listen, before I was in congress, I hand delivered a land into trust application for taos pueblo to the bia. It took me too many years for that to move forward. The appraisal process was one of it.
▶ 0:16:41It ended up costing us a lot of money, a lot of lost opportunity because price is increased, costs increase. While we are waiting for the bia to do its job. But we also know that this is a complex area and that we need to make sure we get implementation right. I love, uh, the intent of this bill.
▶ 0:17:03Look forward to working, uh, with the advocacy organizations, with the organizations who are on the ground, who understand how to get this done, as well as, uh, the sponsor, to make sure that we can, uh, work on the bill to, to carry out its intent. And so with that, uh, I look forward to hearing your testimony, and I yield back, Mr. chair. >> thank you.
▶ 0:17:26Ranking member ledger fernandez, the chair now recognizes the ranking member of the house committee on natural resources. Mr. huffman for any statement. Mr. huffman. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Before I begin, I'd like I have a unanimous consent request. >> yes, sir. >> um, I'd like to enter into the record, um, this article from the guardian. It is entitled trump's anti-climate agenda could result in 1.3 million more deaths globally, according to a new analysis.
▶ 0:17:54This is about the rollback of emissions and clean energy standards, and the finding that adding billions of tons of carbon pollution, uh, to the atmosphere is going to lead to 1.3 million additional temperature related deaths. This will fall predominantly on low income communities, tribes, outdoor workers and other folks who are bearing the brunt of the very real climate crisis. >> without objection. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:18:21Um, this is a good agenda, and, uh, it is great to be back before the subcommittee. I am pleased that this range of bills represents the breadth of issues that we cover, uh, in this work. And, uh, the first one from my friend Mr. case from hawaii, h.r. 4276 would amend the native american tourism and improvement, uh, improving visitor experience act.
▶ 0:18:44Uh, let me just say that it is good to have representative case, who's been a champion for native hawaiians during his tenure with the committee, joining us here at the subcommittee, uh, in 2016, congress enacted the native act to support tribes, tribal organizations, and native hawaiian organizations in developing and implementing tourism in their communities, using grants and loans and technical assistance.
▶ 0:19:08This committee often hears about the importance of recreation and tourism in sustaining rural economies. The native act was designed to support native communities in job creation and economic development while sharing their cultures, languages, and foods in a way that they see fit. Um. Unfortunately, the original legislation did not clearly authorize the bia and the office of native hawaiian relations, um, to issue these grants, and that led to implementation challenges.
▶ 0:19:38So this bill would amend the act to ensure that it can be carried out as congress intended. I hope my colleagues will recognize the need for this legislation and the importance of tourism in native communities, so that we can work together to advance this important bill and further support native communities in enhancing infrastructure development, expanding tourism capacity, and supporting innovative projects that enhance visitors experience.
▶ 0:20:03In 2016, we also enacted the indian trust asset reform act, or atarah, uh, to strengthen tribal self-governance by providing greater tribal authority over the management of their trust assets. But as we heard at the oversight hearing in the ranking member talked about this, uh, tribes have faced barriers in accessing and participating in demonstration projects for trust management. Under this law, h.r.
▶ 0:20:305515 would amend itara to permanently reauthorize the use of demonstration projects while removing administrative barriers. Uh, I look forward to continuing the discussion on atarah and hearing more from our witnesses today. And then, uh, h.r. 5696, directing the interior secretary to revise the federal land acquisition regulations for tribal appraisals for Mr. lamalfa.
▶ 0:20:54Um, this this, uh, as the ranking member said, is well intended legislation. So I look forward to the conversation today. Uh, lastly, we have h.r. 5682, which would take approximately 1261 acres, um, for the pechanga band of indians in riverside, california, in trust. And, uh, I'm looking forward to this discussion.
▶ 0:21:20Appreciate the chairman being here and, uh, learning more about the land's history and what this transfer entails, what it would mean for the tribe. So thank you, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> thank you, Mr. huffman. Now, I will recognize Mr. lamalfa for five minutes to speak on his legislation. Mr. Mr. >> thank you, Mr. chairman and committee members appreciate the opportunity. Um, we're very glad to, um, bring forward h.r. 5696, the streamline act.
▶ 0:21:46And I gotta commend my staff to for coming up with the acronym for streamline. All the letters fit that ten letter word for strengthening tribal real estate authority and modernizing land for indigenous nation expansion acts. It's good stuff. So but the content is even better. So, uh, this this is a this idea came out of the april field hearing in oklahoma.
▶ 0:22:12And, um, as was outlined there, as well as we'll hear in testimony today, the current process for tribal land acquisitions is slow and cumbersome and unnecessarily so. So you have with the federal resources, the staff appraisals, they're spread out over huge areas and not responsive on a good timeline.
▶ 0:22:32Federal places for land transfers thus are lagging behind in the 2024 gao report found that bia's current multi-layered process for reviewing and approving real estate transactions is rigorous and often time intensive, which is actually kind of an optimistic way of saying way behind. We want these appraisals to be done properly and in accordance with the law, in line with the secretary's fiduciary duty and public benefit, while also happening on a reasonable timeline for tribes.
▶ 0:23:01The bill does that and would accelerate tribal land acquisitions by allowing tribes of self-governance and realty compacts to perform and certify their own appraisals for on reservation or contiguous land purchases. Importantly, the bill directs the department of interior to accept a uniform standards of professional appraisal practice uspap compliant tribal appraisal in lieu of federal appraisal, so it meets strong standards under the uspap.
▶ 0:23:31No question, the streamlined act directly addresses doi appraisal process inefficiencies. So, uh, in this in this process that tribes have had to wait so long to really practice their autonomy, I urge my colleagues to support this bill, and I thank chairwoman supernaw for for coming today from quapaw for her testimony that she will give and her attendance today.
▶ 0:23:58And I look forward to identifying further fixes that help reduce bureaucracy and solve problems for tribes in their autonomy and in their business. So thank you. Thanks, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields. Now recognize the gentleman from hawaii, Mr. case for five minutes to speak on his legislation. Mr. case. >> thank you very much, Mr. chair, and aloha to you and to my great ranking member, miss fernandez, and also to my full committee ranking member, Mr. huffman, for your very kind comments.
▶ 0:24:28It's it's great to be back here on the committee where I spent a very productive and enjoyable six years. So thank you very much for allowing me to, uh, speak here today on my bill, h.r. 4276. Uh, this is the house companion version of a bill introduced by my colleague from hawaii, senator schatz, who is a ranking member of the senate committee on indian affairs.
▶ 0:24:52And it really represents the confluence of of two, uh, lines of effort, number one, to advance the economic and otherwise self-sufficiency and prosperity of our indigenous peoples throughout our country, being our native americans, alaska natives and native hawaiians, and also an effort to preserve, enhance, and to educate the rest of us on the very unique, uh, traditional histories and cultures of our indigenous peoples.
▶ 0:25:17And that's what the native act really was about when we enacted that in 2020, 2016, the native act, uh, really attempted to blend, uh, tourism as a, as a driver of economic self-sufficiency and prosperity for our indigenous peoples with the desire to preserve and enhance their indigenous cultures.
▶ 0:25:37Because we know we know that tourism today throughout the world is as much about understanding unique situations, unique histories, and unique cultures, and appreciating them and taking back that understanding and appreciation to where you came from, as it is about anything else. And this is very true of our of our indigenous peoples. And that's what the native act, uh, attempted to do and has been doing since then. Uh, as Mr.
▶ 0:26:05Huffman pointed out, there are some technical corrections that need to be made to this bill, uh, to this law to fully implement its purpose. Uh, those corrections are fairly straightforward. I appreciate the chair's comments about corrections that we need to make during the process of the subcommittee, and certainly commit to do that.
▶ 0:26:22Uh, but in the big picture, what this bill does is, is to take one of our major industries in this country, travel and tourism, and blend it with the desire to preserve and enhance our indigenous peoples and our cultures. Um, this is particularly true, of course, uh, in my home state of hawaii, where travel and tourism is our number one industry and has been for a number of generations and will continue to be.
▶ 0:26:48And people come to hawaii not only for our beauty, for our oceans, uh, for our beaches, for, for our very, uh, diverse and unique culture. They come to understand hawaii as a very unique part of our country. And at the core of hawaii, um, our native hawaiians. And they come to understand that because it's something that they don't understand, uh, they come to understand, to appreciate, to, uh, try to sort through.
▶ 0:27:13And they take that understanding back to where they came from and educate the rest of us on the importance of of maintaining a strong, uh, place within our community and with our society for, for our indigenous peoples, uh, as just one example, under the native act, uh, we have seen in the last years since it was enacted, some 21 or so awards under the native act to assist native hawaiian organizations, uh, which are helping to preserve
▶ 0:27:43And showcase many of the unique aspects of hawai'I, such as traditional dance or hula chants or oily um, as well as, um, knowledge about native hawaiians, particular um, association with and um, preservation of the land or the aina. These are unique parts of our history and culture and travel and tourism, and visitors are very interested in that. That is good for them and that is good for the indigenous peoples of hawai'I.
▶ 0:28:12And so we this has really been a successful law, but it does need some updating. It does need some some expansion to make it actually work. So I really appreciate again the time that you've given me to highlight this important law and the need to to upgrade it. Really? Uh, I appreciate your consideration. Uh, certainly. I'm committed to working with you to, to, uh, address any corrections that need to be made. And with that, I thank you. Mahalo. And I yield back. >> thank you very much. The gentleman yields.
▶ 0:28:42Uh, I will now recognize Mr. issa for five minutes to speak on his legislation. Mr. issa. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Ranking member uh, fernandez, this is an important hearing, and I appreciate your holding it here today. And I appreciate your welcoming. Councilman.
▶ 0:28:58Uh, luker, the pechanga tribe of native americans are one of 21 tribes or bands in my district, but they stand out because for more than 25 years, they have reinvested the revenues from their other income into acquiring tribal land with significant ancestral, uh, linkage.
▶ 0:29:23More than almost 25 years ago, they acquired the great oak, a, uh, a massive tree that still stands in the district that represents a place in which the indigenous people of this region, more than a thousand years ago, began gathering, uh, and until they were taken out by the spanish, they roamed throughout this area since the re-acquisition of that land and
▶ 0:29:54An additional more than 2000 acres of blm land, the federal government has gotten a windfall. They have areas that are now well maintained at the expense of the tribe, and the community has taken full advantage of an enhanced capability. At the same time, the tribe has continued to do their, uh, research and evaluation into these tribal lands, finding additional linkage for both this band and others. Uh, h.r.
▶ 0:30:245682 seeks to bring an additional 1200 acres of blm land that currently actually cost the federal government. This is blm land that is not being used for grazing or any other economic purpose. And in fact, the tribe is taking on the responsibility of maintaining it, where blm not only has the responsibility, but has not been meeting the responsibility. And I want to make that point very clear.
▶ 0:30:52We have a track record, uh, for pechanga of their taking land and doing a better job at their own expense than we, the federal government, were willing to or able to to do this mountain, though, as it is being put back together in tribal land, does have centuries of of history for the tribe, much of which has been documented. But as a result of this, going back into trust, more will be documented.
▶ 0:31:19The reality is, this is a tribe that spans two counties now that has the support of both of the counties and the adjacent cities, and in fact, has been one of the best members of the community, uh, to include and I want to particularly thank, uh, council member who's here at their own expense. They built one of the finest fire departments anywhere in the area.
▶ 0:31:49And for this additional land, in addition to their existing tribal land, they represent a first responder, not only on tribal land, but in all the adjacent communities in fallbrook and other areas. We desperately depend on what the tribe has been willing to and able to do at their own expense. So in the past, we've had a pretty straightforward transfer.
▶ 0:32:16I expect that we will probably have the same and in the senate, but I did want to thank the committee because this has been the forward leaning committee to recognize that the uniquely the native american people of california under the spaniards, lost all of their land. And not until ulysses s grant did they begin getting back their land. And so our tribes are different than some others where they have vast history, but they're having to reacquire it.
▶ 0:32:45And, uh, this is particularly true of pechanga and agua caliente, uh, and other regional tribes in southern california. So I want to thank you for your, uh, holding the hearings so that hopefully we can move this bill in this congress and return this land to a better keeper for it. And with that, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields. With that, it's my pleasure to now introduce our witnesses.
▶ 0:33:10Uh, the first is the honorable wena supernaw, chair of the quapaw nation in quapaw, oklahoma. Uh, chair, it's nice to see you again. Uh, the next is councilman mark luker of the council of the pechanga band band of indians in temecula, california. And, uh, Mr. luker is actually a in the pechanga band of indians is in congressman issa's district in california. And last but certainly not least, is Mr.
▶ 0:33:39Tim vredenburg, director of forest management with the cow creek band of umpqua tribe of indians in roseburg, oregon. Uh, welcome to each of you. Thank you for being here with us today. Let me remind each of you that under committee rules, you are to limit your oral statements to five minutes, but your entire statement will appear in our hearing record. Uh, to begin your testimony, I.
▶ 0:34:03You guys know the drill, but, uh, just just to make sure we're on the same page here, please press the talk button on the microphone. We use timing lights. When you begin, the light will turn green. That means go. When you have one minute left, the light turns yellow. And when the light turns red at the end of five minutes, I would ask that you please wrap up your statement as quickly as possible. I will also allow all witnesses on the panel to testify before member questioning begins. And with that, the chair now recognizes chair supernaw for five minutes.
▶ 0:34:34Chair supernaw. >> huawei chairman and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the quapaw nation. I'm honored to appear in support of h.r. 5696, the streamline act. 50 years ago, president nixon urged congress to end the paternalism that shaped federal tribal relations.
▶ 0:34:58Congress responded with the indian self-determination and education assistance act of 1975, allowing tribes to take control of programs historically run by the bureau of indian affairs and the indian health service. That vote of trust fundamentally reshaped the federal tribal relationship. Today, the quapaw nation exercises self-governance. Over 21 bia functions. Virtually every program for which we are eligible.
▶ 0:35:27For us, self-governance is economic development. Every contract, audit, and report builds technical skills among our citizens, and every program we operate becomes an expression of sovereignty. As I previously previously shared with this committee, when we entered self-governance, we stop being dependent upon the federal government and instead became a partner to the united states.
▶ 0:35:56Our mindset changed from, what will washington do for us next to what can we do to help our people next? That shift underlies our success in commercial enterprises environmental cleanup capacity and our growing professional workforce. Yet that original vision remains unfinished. Federal bottlenecks still slow tribal progress for the quapaw nation.
▶ 0:36:22Land and natural resource transactions remain a major obstacle, even when tribes, compact realty and land management programs under title four of the department of interior still requires many transactions to secure an appraisal approved by the appraisal and valuation services office, the aavso.
▶ 0:36:46That means a tribe cannot complete an independent valuation of its own reservation land without either a bia appraisal or bia approved third party appraiser. In eastern oklahoma, where only one bia approved appraiser is available, our projects have sat idle for months, awaiting an analysis we could have completed in 24 hours. That is not a trust safeguard. It is a bottleneck.
▶ 0:37:15It delays investment, agriculture, leasing, home building and environmental restoration across indian country. We are grateful that congressman lamalfa recognized this problem and work with our tribe to build on the self-determination act by giving tribes the ability to advance our own priorities. For nearly a generation, the quapaw nation has taken responsibility for our land.
▶ 0:37:42When we assumed self-governance, we compacted our realty and trust services, allowing us to manage land efficiently and transparently. The streamline act can significantly enhance this capacity. Tribes with compacted realty programs have demonstrated that we can apply federal standards with professionalism. What we need now is legal recognition so we can act without long delays.
▶ 0:38:11Created by limited federal staff. H.r. 5696 confirms what experience shows when tribes manage their own realty functions, the united states fulfills its trust responsibility more effectively. The bill directs the secretary to accept a tribal valuation conducted under uniform standards of professional appraisal practice or equivalent standards, in place of the federal appraisal.
▶ 0:38:37When a tribe has shown capacity for the quapaw nation, time is opportunity. Every delay in a lease, a right of way or exchange represents lost revenue, a construction season, or an investor who simply moves on by trusting tribes to perform their own valuations. Congress will shorten project timelines, reduce vsos workload, and encourage more tribes to compact realty functions.
▶ 0:39:04These reforms require no new bureaucracy and will accelerate economic activity in indian country. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. We look forward to working with you on the legislation and other priorities for the quapaw nation, including h.r.
▶ 0:39:211451, the quapaw tribal settlement act of 2025, legislation that compensates the nation and its people for the contributions of lead and zinc extracted from our lands, which proved critical to the allied success in both world war one and two. However, the extraction of these minerals in our commitment to restore and reclaim these areas, and we urge you, the united states government, to fulfill its obligations to support this long overdue cleanup effort.
▶ 0:39:53With the passage of h.r. 1451. Joe neguse. >> thank you very much, chairwoman supernaw, for your testimony. The chair would now like to recognize councilman mark luker for five minutes. Uh, councilman luker. >> good morning. Chairman, ranking member leger fernandez and members of the committee.
▶ 0:40:20My name is mark luker, and I serve as a tribal councilman for the pechanga band of indians in southern california. It is an honor to appear before you today on behalf of my people, to speak in support of h.r. 5682, hr 5682 is a straightforward but deeply meaningful piece of legislation. It would transfer approximately 1261 acres of federal land, currently being managed by the bureau of land management, into trust for the pechanga band of indians.
▶ 0:40:49This land lies directly adjacent to our reservation and includes profound cultural, historical and spiritual importance, including portions of the mountain, one of our most sacred places. Our tribe has lived in the temecula valley for more than 10,000 years. Over centuries, we've endured devastating population loss, displacement, and forced removal.
▶ 0:41:13After the creation of the state of california, our ancestors were forcibly evicted from the temecula valley in 1875. It was not until 1882 when president chester arthur established the pechanga indian reservation. Only a fraction of our original homeland. Despite its small size, our responsibility to protect our ancestral lands extend far beyond the reservation boundaries.
▶ 0:41:37Polska mountain, in particular, is a place central to our creation stories and generations of cultural knowledge. In 2007, when a large open pit mine was proposed for polska mountain, our tribe stood with the city of temecula, save our southwest hills and many community partners to prevent the destruction of this sacred place.
▶ 0:42:00After years of legal and public battles, the pechanga band was able to purchase the land and place it into trust in 2015, ultimately preserving it for future generations. The city of temecula now celebrates its achievement each year on pechanga mountain day. But important portions of polska mountain remain outside our trust lands and under blm management.
▶ 0:42:26Hr 5682 would correct this by taking these adjacent parcels into trust, allowing the tribe not a distant agency, to steward lands that hold irreplaceable cultural, spiritual and environmental value to the tribe. This legislation finally brings most of polska mountain back under tribal protection, ensuring its preservation as part of the pechanga indian reservation.
▶ 0:42:52This land transfer does not create new opportunity development opportunities for the tribe. It does not alter any existing land use in any way that impacts surrounding communities. Instead, it fulfills the united states long standing commitment to support tribal self-governance while enabling us to protect one of our most sacred places in our history.
▶ 0:43:16In closing, I want to express my gratitude to congressman darrell issa for his leadership and to each of you on the committee for considering this bill. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. >> thank you very much, councilman luker, for your testimony. The chair now recognizes Mr. vandenberg for five minutes. Mr. vandenberg. >> good morning.
▶ 0:43:41Chairman, ranking member leger fernandez, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the cow creek band of the umpqua tribe of indians. We appreciate the committee's leadership in advancing tribal priorities like forest restoration, wildfire resilience, and self-determination. I traveled here today from southwest oregon because we are in strong support of h.r. 5515, the indian trust asset reform amendment act.
▶ 0:44:10Congress enacted the indian trust asset reform act in 2016. Title two created a ten year demonstration project allowing tribes to develop indian trust asset management plans, items which empower tribes to assume greater responsibility for the management of their forests.
▶ 0:44:30To date, only three items have been approved nationwide not because the tool doesn't work, but because tribes simply don't know that it exists or where to start. Commissioned by congress, the fourth indian forest management assessment team.
▶ 0:44:47If met four, on which I served as a technical specialist, found that roughly 80% of tribal trust forest acres are already managed under 638 self-governance governance agreements. Itara is the next logical step. It allows tribes to fully manage trust assets while meeting all of the environmental laws and maintaining federal standards. The fmap four team visited more than 40 tribal forestry programs, and no two were the same.
▶ 0:45:16Tribes best understand their own unique needs and are the most qualified to make those decisions. The cow creek umpqua tribe was one of the first tribes in the nation to implement itara, and the first to approve a forest management activity under the itara authority. Since then, we have consistently met or exceeded our goals and the results are real.
▶ 0:45:39We built miles of fuel breaks, protecting tribal lands and neighboring forest service lands. These projects have reduced wildfire risk and improved the safety of our citizens and our neighbors. Fish have returned to streams where they have not been seen in over a decade. We can prepare and implement projects in months instead of years.
▶ 0:46:05Costs are down and efficiencies are up, and the ability to to quickly respond to market conditions. Um, as a result, tribal revenues have grown, expanding our capacity to fund critical services. Our wildfire response has dramatically improved following catastrophic wildfire. Instead of waiting until the damage has become intensely severe, we can now begin rehabilitation and restoration work immediately.
▶ 0:46:35These are not theoretical outcomes. They represent real benefits to the land and the community. The trust responsibility must always be honored. What itara changes is how the trust responsibility is carried out.
▶ 0:46:52It changes the trust relationship from one of dominance and control to one of support, placing more decision making in the hands of tribes who are better equipped to balance the cultural, ecological and economic values of their own communities. This legislation addresses the issues identified by the fmap four report.
▶ 0:47:15It would make itar a permanent, reduce unnecessary barriers, clarify what trust assets can be included, and allow tribes to adopt forest management plans. Congress must act quickly if itar expires in 2026. The hard earned progress that tribes have made toward meaningful self-determination will be put at risk. In closing, itara is working. It's a powerful tool for self-determination and effective stewardship.
▶ 0:47:44The cow creek umpqua tribe is living proof of what's possible when a tribe is trusted to manage their own land. Speaking for the cow creek umpqua tribe, it's no longer appropriate for decisions to be made about our forest by people that have never walked on our lands. The tribe knows their land. The tribe knows their community.
▶ 0:48:09The best decisions to benefit the land and the community are being made locally today by the tribe, and it's for the future. We have a short window. If congress does not act quickly, this is a historic step forward will expire. Please move with the most haste. Thank you. >> thank you very much, Mr. vandenberg, for that testimony.
▶ 0:48:34The chair will now be recognizing members for five minutes for questions, and I will begin by recognizing the chair of the house committee on natural resources, the gentleman from arkansas, Mr. westerman, for five minutes. Mr. westerman. >> thank you, chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today to talk about one of my favorite subjects and your expertise in that area. Um, Mr. vandenberg, I know that you mentioned the role of atara and how the or the role that it's played in the cow creek band.
▶ 0:49:04Wildfire preparation. Could you speak further about the reduction of wildfire risk seen through retires work? >> certainly. Atara allows us to to respond more effectively, um, more quickly. Time is of the essence in the west, over half of our national forests around us have burned. Um, we don't we don't have the luxury of time or long delays.
▶ 0:49:32Um, most are for forest management activity to occur on tribal trust land. Um, there are over a dozen federal decisions required. Atara allows us to streamline that and and make those decisions locally where we're we're most familiar with the land. >> and so it allows you to respond more quickly.
▶ 0:49:56How would you judge the results of where you've been able to do management under atara, compared to areas that, um, maybe adjacent areas or areas in the region that haven't been managed? >> prior to atara? Uh, we had the unfortunate experience of the mile, uh, suffering the milepost 97 fire.
▶ 0:50:18It took almost a year, um, to, to be able to, you know, restore, rehabilitate those lands. Um, it costs the tribe millions of dollars. Um, after I, we had a fire in the same place.
▶ 0:50:35And usually, as, you know, chairman, um, those ribbons expand the burn area and it grows, um, because of the work we were able to do under atara and the pre-fire treatment, um, the second burn was only a few hundred acres with minimal damage. >> good. Um, Mr.
▶ 0:50:54Luker, the isolated parcels owned by the blm are adjacent to or near land owned by the pechanga tribe. Uh, how well is this land currently taken care of by the blm? And how would that change if taken into trust for the tribe? >> yes. Uh, the blm is doing the best they can with the resources they have.
▶ 0:51:17Um, we, uh, we are excited if having the opportunity to get our cultural resources department, our environmental department, and our fire department up there to take a look. It's very rugged land, rock landscape, uh, difficult to traverse. So, uh, we have other parcels that we've taken into trust over the years that we've been able to do surveys, uh, habitat surveys, uh, and it's created a great buffer, uh, for us, uh, for fire prevention as well.
▶ 0:51:49>> so you mentioned the blm is doing the best they can, but would you say that when the pechanga start managing and and doing those wildlife surveys and the other things they have expertise in, does the does the landscape get better when that happens? >> uh, it sure has over the years, um, on our behalf, we've we've been able to do great surveys, surveys, identify cultural resources which are important.
▶ 0:52:13If there is a fire, we can direct fire departments to, uh, stay away or keep bulldozers away from significant sites. Um, so that's made a huge difference in areas that we've had under our jurisdiction. >> and the supervision of the, uh, you're in an area very near and near and dear to me, maybe a little a little bit further west from where I live. But very similar forest types. Can you talk about some of the work that that you all have done? >> is this regarding the, uh, the appraisals.
▶ 0:52:44>> right in, in any kind of, uh, work, you've done some work with the forest as well, haven't you? >> exactly. So, um, yes, we have, uh, our natural resource management department that does an excellent job in covering both realty and land services. Um, our environmental department as well as our.
▶ 0:53:07We're most proud of our quapaw services authority, which is the entity that works under the funding of the epa, as well as the oklahoma department of environmental quality for purposes of remediating the tar creek superfund site. So we're very pleased of the capabilities that they have developed over the course of the last two decades. >> thank you. And I don't think I have time to ask another question, Mr. chair, I yield back.
▶ 0:53:36>> the gentleman yields his time. Uh, at this point, the chair will recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee. The gentleman from new mexico, miss leger fernandez. Ranking member leger fernandez. >> thank you so very much. And, uh, thank you very much for having this conversation about the great work that you were able to do at cow creek with regards to managing your own forests. It's nice to hear this good news, right? In fact, that each of you bring about the work that you're doing on your tribe. Uh, Mr.
▶ 0:54:04Chairman, I'd like to enter into the record, uh, the article, uh, unanimous consent. The article. Wildfire mitigation. New mexico down 53% since trump took office. >> without objection. >> so.
▶ 0:54:17And and this article states that analysis of us forest service data shows that wildfire mitigation efforts in new mexico, including prescribed burns and other hazardous fuel treatments, are down by 53% since president donald trump took office when compared to yearly averages over the biden administration. The data shows that the us forest service is significantly behind on wildfire mitigation in the country's national forest.
▶ 0:54:44Shows that in 2023, under biden, there was 203,000 acres, uh, addressed rather than 225. That number dropped to just 68,000. And I think that what I'm going to hear from you is, or what I'd like you to address is how does that compare to what you've been able to do?
▶ 0:55:06Um, on tribal lands, when you're in control, like, have you seen this kind of drop, uh, of 53% in the last year, or have you been able, because you've been in control, to continue the work, as you see, uh, is necessary. >> sure. Thank you for the question. Uh, the if map for report and the previous three if maps identified that tribes were able to do more, accomplish more with less.
▶ 0:55:34Um, that's the exciting thing about h.r. 5515, is that it it further streamlines and lowers the cost and increases the efficiency and effectiveness of our ability to to manage those lands so we can, uh, we can do more with less. >> right.
▶ 0:55:55And it sounds like you're then also able to continue the work, even as there might be, um, ups and downs at the, at the federal level, because you're able to prioritize the kind of work that you need to do year after year. Is that correct? >> yes. And that's that's the power of self-determination. >> exactly. And moving to self-determination. Thank you so much, chair. Uh, woman, for raising the great work that you all have done.
▶ 0:56:22Now, I as I said earlier, I do believe that this bill is exactly the way where we need ahead to give tribes the ability to move this process forward. Uh, I noted that, uh, the bill requires that there already be a compact for appraisals. Now, I since that's not authorized yet, I take it you don't yet have, uh, appraisal authority in in your agreement with the federal government is that. >> thank you for the question.
▶ 0:56:52Yes, that is correct. However, we have found some pretty innovative, innovative ways to, um, in essence, avoid and still obtain fair market pricing. So in some cases, especially for agricultural leases, we'll actually conduct an open bidding process. Unfortunately, um, sometimes the the bia's direct observation prohibits multiple bids. Therefore you don't necessarily get a fair market price for in this particular example, an agricultural lease.
▶ 0:57:20So they would the bia will acknowledge those. But we have to ensure that it's fair market value to protect the leases so that they are fairly compensated for the activities being conducted on their land. >> right. And that's why I like about this legislation, is it's recognizing that tribes really are going to make sure, because it's in your interest and for your for your tribal members interest to make sure it is fair market.
▶ 0:57:46Um, but I think we need to look and make sure that it is available to all tribes. Not every tribe, uh, would have, uh, have compacted these areas, but many tribes actually need the have the need for these appraisals and and have the ability to, uh, and the need to take land into trust. Uh, and so that's why we look forward to working on the bill.
▶ 0:58:09And I would take it that you wouldn't have any objection to making sure all tribes would be able to take advantage of of these, uh, this appraisal process. >> absolutely. I actually believe that the bill will encourage additional tribes that don't already compact for, uh, trust and land management purposes to do so, uh, because it provides an additional incentive for them to exercise self-determination on their own land. >> great. Thank you.
▶ 0:58:34And, council member, your testimony about, uh, that the gravel pit would have created a hole. Uh, and, uh, and the land and, and in a sense, in your own story was so moving. And I think that that is an example of why we need to move quickly on these land interests. I don't know, I think I've one at a time. Uh, if you wanted to provide any other, uh, sense of of of the. I've run out of time on time. Anyway. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:59:06Thank you very much. The the testimony was very powerful about the importance of this land and how you must protect it. And with that, Mr. chair, I yield back. >> all his time. The gentleman's time has expired at this time. The chair would like to recognize the gentleman from california, Mr. lamalfa, for five minutes, Mr. lamalfa. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Once again, um, and again, panelists, for your testimony and for your time and travel to be here. Of course.
▶ 0:59:31Um, following back up with, uh, the issue on 56, 96. And I want to drill down on something that, uh, you mentioned in your testimony, uh, chairwoman supernaw, um, that, um, you're you're the quapaw are have assumed 21 bia functions in in your, uh, manner of doing business and, um, that, uh, the streamline act would be number 22, I guess. Right? Correct.
▶ 1:00:01Um, what what do you believe the holdup is on, uh, on why this function hasn't already been approved for tribes, um, with, you know, being able to appraise, especially their own land, the land they've had much history on. For example. >> thank you for the question.
▶ 1:00:22I think this is, uh, from my own personal perspective, I think it's a holdover from a bit of that paternalistic view, um, in that I mentioned fair market value previously. I think that much of the federal law was put in place to protect tribal citizens, and I think that that intent was good. However, unfortunately, that intent turns negative on us when following the rules.
▶ 1:00:47Uh, basically disincentivizes us from further economic development. That's my own view. Um, that's just an opinion. >> yeah, well, time is money. And we we all get that across all sectors with waiting for a government to move on permitting and, uh, you know, plan checking or whatever it might be. But, um, in this case here, you know, protecting tribes, I guess, from themselves is what the attitude would be.
▶ 1:01:16But you have tribes that are compliant and, uh, steeped in the ability to, uh, work through the uniform standards of the pap. Right. And so with that stamp of approval, with that education, I guess on it, there shouldn't be any issue. That's, that's it's a standard they meet for, for the appraisals and such. And so it shouldn't be a problem. Right? >> I don't believe that would be a problem. A matter of fact.
▶ 1:01:47Um, it that's kind of the our ability to manage the land is fundamental to our ability to do things like monitor the environmental damage that exists on our reservation, as well as to perform our remediation activities. Therefore, I think that at least for the quapaw nation, we more than sufficiently meet the threshold and the expertise and the experience necessary to do this responsibly.
▶ 1:02:14>> certainly that firsthand experience and the knowledge of that land, like the back of your hand, would be great value. It's just putting it into play in, uh, in a uniform standard. And so this accomplishes all that. And tribes are protected in that the standards are there. So, um, you know, reaffirms that this is a pretty sensible way to go piece of legislation. So we're, we're happy to, uh, in this committee to push that along. And so I thank you get on that.
▶ 1:02:44Let me, let me turn to, uh, Mr. vandenberg for a moment here to on the ettara. Um, it's, uh. It's since it's come into place in 2016, um, in order to, you know, reaffirm the government's trust responsibilities, um, it's you note that it only three of the, uh, management plans have actually been, uh, uh, put in place in that nine years.
▶ 1:03:12And so what what do you think is the holdup on, uh, is it is it accessibility to it? Is is tribes not, uh, maybe aware enough of the tool or and how do how do we improve upon that? >> I think it's a combination of everything you mentioned. Um, I think that an element too is the the nature of the demonstration project, uh, created uncertainty. Um, it's a it's it's an undertaking.
▶ 1:03:42>> for who? For certainty. For who? >> for the tribes. Um, that would be preparing, uh, an indian trust asset management plan. So by making that permanent, I think it'll, uh, we'll see. Um, many more tribes participate with the confidence that it's a permanent program.
▶ 1:04:01>> so the concern that there was a expiration of ettara in ten years or, you know, in whenever they resume or pick that up before 2026, that it may expire, and then they're left holding the bag with an with an eye camp that is no longer valid or renewable. Yes. Okay. All right. Well, hopefully we, uh, um, have success in, uh, in this round of legislation. I appreciate chairman hurd for taking that up. So I'll yield back. Thank you.
▶ 1:04:31>> the gentleman yields at this time. The chair recognizes the gentleman from washington, Mr. randall, for five minutes. Mr. randall. >> thank you. Chairman hurd, um, for holding this important hearing and being dedicated to doing this work. I also want to thank our witnesses for being here today. Um, Mr. chairman, your partnership on the amendment act has been incredible.
▶ 1:04:55And as folks know, atarah was enacted in 2016 with the goal of empowering tribes to have more authority to manage their own trust assets. But as we heard in the hearing earlier this year, the red tape and administrative challenges and inadequate funding have caused many tribes to be unable to utilize the benefits of atarah as it was intended.
▶ 1:05:18That february hearing was, um, very early in our first year as members of congress, but it showed me how you, Mr. chairman, are committed to learning from, um, the witnesses that come before this committee when, uh, president cappleman from the quinault tribe of indians traveled to washington, D.C.
▶ 1:05:43And um, explained very clearly about some of the challenges that they had navigated, and you asked thoughtful questions. And then I think it was a conversation we had on the sidewalk that sparked for me that we would be able to work on this together. So I just wanted to acknowledge that. And thank you so much for your leadership.
▶ 1:06:03Um, you know, this bill reaffirms the trust responsibility of the federal government to tribal nations and strengthens tribal self-determination and the management of trust assets by cutting this unnecessary red tape and allowing more tribes to develop indian asset management plans, as you have already spoken to Mr.
▶ 1:06:25Rutenberg, I wonder if you can share a bit about how implementing atarah helped your tribe also implement further ecosystem restoration work, including increasing fish return? >> absolutely. Um. Itara has allowed the tribe to be a more effective manager. Natural resource decisions are made, are best made, um, as close to the ground as possible.
▶ 1:06:54The tribe has been managing these lands for millennia. Um, they know it, and they know their community and the values of the community. And so the the decisions, um, come much more quickly, uh, with the fullness of that knowledge. And, and the results are, are showing out on the ground as we're seeing fish return to places they haven't been in a decade. And, and our wildlife populations are responding with abundance. >> that's wonderful.
▶ 1:07:23Certainly in my own district, I have had a chance to see how, um, tribal leaders and, uh, tribal natural resources scientists are the best positioned to make these management decisions about their lands and waters and forests. And, in fact, during the shutdown, when we didn't see, um, you know, government scientists be able to uphold some of their co-management responsibility in washington.
▶ 1:07:55It was tribes that continued to do so much of that important work. But it's not, um, as I think was mentioned, it's not every tribe that is able to take advantage of, um, creating a plan through atarah and, um, you know, how could this amendment allow more tribes to successfully implement atarah as intended?
▶ 1:08:27>> h.r. 5515 addresses some of the hurdles and streamlines the process, uh, for tribes to be able to enter into the, um, the atarah, um, authority. Um, it's also the knowledge of the the permanence that, um, you know, knowing that, um. That it it might take a little bit of work now. Um, but it will be worth it in the future.
▶ 1:08:56And, and it's, it'll be durable, um, something they can rely on and trust, I think is, is is really going to, um, foster more, more participation. >> wonderful. Thank you so much, Mr. frydenberg. And thank you to our other witnesses. And, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields at this time. The chair recognizes the gentleman from the state of oregon. Miss hoyle for five minutes, miss hoyle. >> there we go. These are.
▶ 1:09:28These are new. I'm not quite sure how to work them. Sorry. Um, so thank you very much for the recognition. And, uh, I want to thank all the witnesses and specifically, um, I represent the central and south coast of oregon and have the honor to represent the cow creek band of umpqua tribe of indians and also the cockwell, uh, indian tribe, who have been leaders in using itar authority to more efficiently manage their tribal forest land.
▶ 1:09:56Um, I think that oregon is the only place because of the strange checkerboard configuration, um, of the onk lands where you can see management of forest service, blm, state lands, private timberland and tribal lands right next to each other, and the the cow creek have been
▶ 1:10:26Gracious enough to invite us out for a committee hearing to actually be able to see with our eyes the difference in management practices and how our tribal forest lands are managed for future generations. With sustainable logging and healthier forests.
▶ 1:10:41But when you actually look at the difference, just because with good neighbor authority, it's been it's been you can't deny that the millennia of experience in natural resource management makes a difference. I hope that we're able to do that. Mr.
▶ 1:11:00Chair and ranking member, um, I'm proud to be a sponsor of the indian, uh, trust asset, uh, reform amendment act that would ensure that these tribes can continue using it.our, the it.our program, while also making it easier for more tribes to participate. So, Mr.
▶ 1:11:19Brenberg, um, could you just share how it has improved your tribe's ability to manage its forest resources, and what positive outcomes have you seen for the local environment and economy? >> thank you. And thank you for cosponsoring the legislation. Uh, before I start, we had, uh, dozens of federal approvals, um, that we, we relied on.
▶ 1:11:43Um, those approvals came from, um, offices, regional offices, hundreds of miles away from the reservation, um, from people that that hadn't had the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the tribe's lands.
▶ 1:11:59Um, since entering the itara demonstration project, we've been able to, um, streamline that process and improve the the tribe's ability to quickly respond to, uh, to risks and threats, but also be more proactive in, in addressing, um, you know, resource issues like, um, stream rehabilitation and, uh, forest restoration work.
▶ 1:12:30>> that's great. And then, in your view, how does itara strengthen the federal trust responsibility to tribes? And then also, um, what do you see the biggest barriers to preventing more tribes from using itar today? >> the law clearly states and reiterates and affirms the federal trust responsibility. That's important.
▶ 1:12:54Um, but it also modernizes the relationship from one of, um, what's been described as federal dominance or paternalism, uh, to one of support, which is truly a more meaningful and impactful, uh, form of, of the trust, responsibility. And there was a second part to that. >> yeah. What are the biggest barriers? >> thank you.
▶ 1:13:21Um, I think the biggest barrier to date has been the uncertainty of of the demonstration project, knowing that it's going to expire. Um, it's just a big it's a, it's a undertaking and a big transition. Um, and not having the certainty of the durability, um, I think is, has caused some tribes to be hesitant. So this law will be important. >> well, thank you so much.
▶ 1:13:45And I certainly hope that we're able to take you up to come out to bring all of our colleagues out to canyonville, oregon, which is a wonderful place in the willamette valley. Thank you again for being here. I yield back. >> the gentleman yields. At this time, the chair would like to recognize the gentleman from utah, Mr. kennedy, for five minutes, Mr. kennedy. >> thank you. >> Mr. chair. And thank you for.
▶ 1:14:13>> your witnesses coming all the way to washington to talk to us about these important issues and the tribes and my being from utah. The tribes in my district face similar problems as those presented to us by both chairwoman shannon, director vredenburgh. I'm glad that we're here to discuss the importance of indian trust asset reform amendment act and the streamline act, and allowing for improved stewardship of land under the supervision of our native nations. So thank you for your testimonies regarding that. And, councilman luker, I had a couple of questions for you.
▶ 1:14:41Thank you for your willingness to help me with this. H.r. 5006 82 would take 1200 acres of land from blm into trust for your tribe. What are your plans with the land once you are able to to achieve this opportunity? >> yes. We plan to continue to work with the santa margarita land conservancy. Uh, on the management of that property.
▶ 1:15:05The there's also an adjacent piece with a piece with san diego state economic ecological conservancy that we've had an mou with. So we'll continue those. Uh, it'll just expand the area in which we will be able to work with those folks. We will have our cultural resources folks up there looking and seeing what resources are there.
▶ 1:15:24Environmental team will be up there evaluating, uh, what, uh, what is there so we can identify it with, uh, gis markers and map it, uh, properly, which I, to my knowledge, has not been mapped any of that by the blm bureau of land management. Um, but basically it's going to be left in place. Uh, there's not going to be any development on it. There's not going to be no change of status. It's just going to be open space.
▶ 1:15:49>> so as far as, um, development of the land and using the resources, you don't foresee any opportunities to, for example, harvest timber or do any sort of subsurface mining, for example, in a respectful way. >> yeah. So, uh, likely no mining and there won't be any mining as part of my testimony. Was we, uh, that mountain is a very sacred place to our folks.
▶ 1:16:12Um, and at the base of that mountain is where we believe, uh, is we call it, which is, uh, like a garden of eden, where life was first created. So we plan to keep that, uh, as pristine as possible. It's a very rugged, uh, landscape. Uh, boulders, granite boulders and, uh, rough terrain. Um, and I don't see any development occurring on that.
▶ 1:16:34>> well, I'm excited about the sacredness of the land and the opportunity that you have after many years of not having access to that, that you can, can, uh, have this opportunity to treat it as it should be treated. So bringing the land into trust for your tribe, what sort of benefits on, on any level will your tribe see as a result of this, this law that we're moving forward? >> yes. So the I think tribes in general are very private about their culture, have been for decades, uh, centuries.
▶ 1:17:04And, uh, we we haven't really been, um, sharing what the how important that meant to us. Uh, the the creation, the the birth of the first human we believe was there, our first leader. And the first death occurred on top of a mountain. So it means a lot to bring our youth up there, to show them that place, teach them about, uh, the traditional knowledge. And we we have a large piece of alaska mountain.
▶ 1:17:33It's 356 acres that we currently have in trust, which is adjacent. We take our kids up there. It'd be nice to be able to expand that footprint and show them some of the important places in our culture. >> so outside of thank you for that. Outside of those 356 acres, how many acres do you have that are adjacent to this 1200 acres that we're pursuing at this point? >> so interstate 15 bisects the piece of the pechanga reservation that we just got into trust.
▶ 1:18:00Temecula creek in, I believe, is another 300 and some acres that are basically across the freeway from that. Um, we're continuing to look for opportunities to acquire blm in that area just to further, uh, preserve that, that space, uh, into perpetuity. Um, so it's just the 356 that is are adjacent. And then the, the 1261 that we would acquire under this bill. >> very good.
▶ 1:18:25And I compliment the chair and those that are working on this for the the significant accomplishment. I'm really happy for you and your people that you can, can, uh, have this opportunity. Thank Mr. frydenberg with my remaining moments. I just wanted to ask you, what are the short and long term benefits of the ten year demonstration program becoming permanent? >> the short term benefit is that we we have plans.
▶ 1:18:50We have operational plans that that go out, um, multiple years and it and it gives us the ability to move forward with confidence that we're going to be able to execute that work.
▶ 1:19:02Um, the long term, it, it provides the security and the confidence for other tribes to enter into the demonstration or into the the ettara authority, um, and develop robust organizations, um, that that can be effective into the future. >> excited for that. And thank you, Mr. chair, for convening this and to our witnesses for being here. And with that, I yield back. >> gentleman, yields back.
▶ 1:19:32At this time. The chair would like to recognize the gentleman from michigan, Mr. walberg, for five minutes. Mr. walberg. >> thank you, Mr. chair. And it's a busy morning with multiple committee hearings and catching up from the unnecessary democrat shutdown for seven weeks. And I'm glad we're finally able to have you with us. Thank you for taking the time to be with us.
▶ 1:19:52Um, I'm glad to be here today discussing these bills that increase the control of tribes and tribal members over their own economic development projects, restore historic tribal homelands and make permanent itara program to reaffirm our trust responsibility while ensuring the tribes can manage their own true assets. Uh, trust assets.
▶ 1:20:18Having recently visited with the pokagon band of potawatomi indians in my district, I know that we can make a real difference in the lives of native people in this country through common sense, bipartisan legislation. That sounds. It sounds strange, doesn't it? Uh, like some of the bills that we're considering today. Uh, chair supernovas. Good to see you again. Whether it's coming off an elevator or sitting in front of us.
▶ 1:20:46Uh, it's, uh, we appreciate your your impact. Uh, can you share how the streamline act encourages economic development and activity for tribes who have isaiah, uh, compacts? >> thank you for the question. I appreciate that. I want to give I want to preface this by giving you a couple of examples of what kind of delays we're talking about, and then I can share the impacts because they they go hand in hand with one another. So I'll just give you a flavor.
▶ 1:21:16So our six most recent, um, sale of interest appraisals, uh, took extraordinary periods of time. Two took five months while the other four required eight months. This is just a sale of interest, a signed lease appraisal. Now, this is where you've got to appraise the land in order to put a sign up. Two of them required seven months. And then actually one of them took seven months and the other one took five months. Ag lease appraisals a particular ♪sticky point.
▶ 1:21:46The four most recent ones, three took four months and one took five months. So obviously those delays have tangible consequences. Now we do everything that we can to plan ahead. And some of these, these appraisals are required. When leases are renewed. They come up every ten years, every five years, whatever the renewal is. And as a result, they're time sensitive.
▶ 1:22:09And the, uh, that those time frames far exceed appraisal processes for fee simple land. And they slow our ability to move forward with economic development. Remember this, this impacts our tribal members. These aren't necessarily leases where the quapaw nation is. The the the lease holder. These are individual tribal citizens that are seeking the assistance of the tribe.
▶ 1:22:33And because of the status of the land, requires this particular process to be followed. So it's not just the tribe, it's directly to our tribal members who in many cases own undivided interest and original allotments. And they need to execute a hunting and, you know, a hunting lease or an agricultural lease. So that's exactly what we're talking about. That's the impact to economic development.
▶ 1:23:01It also has an impact if we're going to do a significantly larger project. That appraisal was obviously required in order to get an external developer to come in and put in a particular, let's say, a manufacturing facility. These types of delays cause them to walk away because we can't move quickly enough. >> well, thank you for answering all my questions, including one I was going to ask. So I appreciate that. Um, um, Mr.
▶ 1:23:28Vredenburg, if you could sum up the importance of tribal control over trust assets in one sentence, what would it be? >> I don't usually use one sentence. When tribes are in control of their trust assets, their decisions can align with their values.
▶ 1:23:52They can respond to risk more effectively, and their accountability, uh, improves as it's directly, um is a directly faced their their local tribal members. Um and it's not slowed by some distant federal process. >> okay. >> thank you, councilman luker, your testimony describes the historical and cultural importance of this land to the pechanga tribe.
▶ 1:24:22What would adding this land to the pechanga reservation mean for the tribe? >> uh, yes. So that piece of, uh, of the mountain, belasco mountain, uh, is is critical to many of the songs that we sing are traditional songs, and they tell a story about our creation. They tell a story about our death. They tell stories about the, the, the meetings that occurred up there that would, would, uh, help people live after our leader.
▶ 1:24:51That was our furnishing us food and whatnot, how they were able to live after he had passed. So to be able to take our children up there and to show them this place and to to explain the stories in the place without being disturbed by, uh, a granite mine or, you know, aggregate trucks. It means a lot to our community. Um, I don't know how I can express how much it means to us culturally and historically. >> thank you, thank you.
▶ 1:25:19>> the gentleman yields at this time, the chair recognizes himself for five minutes of questions. Uh, chair supernaw, you said something that really caught my ear, which is self-governance is economic development. I think that's a profound insight. And that's something that I think, uh, all of us on this dais can agree with. You mentioned that the quapaw nation has experience, uh, with self-governance, over 21 separate bia functions. So I think it's fair to say you understand where the friction points are here.
▶ 1:25:48What's the single most serious bottleneck in the appraisal, the current federal appraisal system? Is it scheduling? Is it a review. Is it rework bia acceptance. What's what's the biggest single bottleneck from your perspective? >> it's really the labor. Um, they have some opinions about how to solve for it, but it's really enough resources on the ground. Remember the one person in eastern oklahoma? There are a whole bunch of us out there.
▶ 1:26:17There are nine tribes in ottawa county alone where the quapaw reservation is. So there are a number of, uh, indian nations, tribal nations that are competing for the same precious resource, all of whom have their own economic development goals to achieve simultaneously. So that that that's the bulk of it. But we can do it differently.
▶ 1:26:38We have a wonderful opportunity before us for tribes that can prove proficiency and prove that they can meet the standards, to do it on our own, and simply provide that to the bia to stay compliant with with federal law. And I'm not necessarily saying that every tribe is in an equal position to do so. But for the ones who are, that's a wonderful opportunity to to move forward and do things a little bit differently. That reduces the burden on everybody's part.
▶ 1:27:07That's a win win. >> thank you. Can you give us some concrete examples? What sorts of projects are being affected by these delays? Is it housing? Is it agricultural leases, business development, environmental cleanup. What are. >> it's all of the above. It is absolutely all of the above. Even when it comes to something pretty straightforward, like a right of way and a right of way. Sometimes it seems like something simple, but sometimes that's the key to gaining access to a piece of land that's landlocked so that construction can begin.
▶ 1:27:36And without being able to get that right of way in some period, less than 8 to 10 months means whoever you're working with, like I said before, they've already gone on down the road. So, you know, there are a whole multitude of those types of of examples. >> thank you. Uh, chairwoman supernaw, council member luker, will there be specific responsibilities or costs that the tribe will assume once the parcel is in trust?
▶ 1:28:05>> yeah, I mentioned that we'll continue to work with the santa margarita river conservancy. Uh, with the management of that, that area there. Um, we, uh, that corridor, in addition to being culturally significant, is, uh, environmentally sensitive because it's a corridor that animals travel from the north to the south. And I can imagine what we've done in other parcels.
▶ 1:28:28We'll put up, uh, monitoring systems to see how the mountain lions and the bobcats move up and down the that piece of that, that corridor there. Um, I'm sure that piece will be, uh, part of the multi-species habitat corridor that that we will continue to manage and, and report to the local parties on, on that need to see that, uh, other than it being, um, kind of held in its current status. Uh, that's that's the plan, right? >> thank you. Council member.
▶ 1:28:59It's good to see you again as well. >> thank you. I would love to have everybody out to visit and see the beauty of this place. Uh, it's it's very dear to us, but it's a very beautiful place. It's hard to take your time. >> thank you. Council member. Mr. rosenberg, in your testimony. And maybe if you could sum it up for us, I think we've we've a lot of us have been hitting on this same point, the same question. You mentioned several recommendations that the indian forest management assessment team report made to improve aetara.
▶ 1:29:27Could you explain to us or just elaborate briefly in summary form, how h.r. 5005 15 aligns with those recommendations? >> yes, and thank you, chairman. Uh, the the if report recommended improved flexibility, increased tribal authority and addressing federal bottlenecks. H.r. 5515 does exactly that.
▶ 1:29:57If map for um identified aetara as a proven model that it was working and and recommended making it a permanent authority. >> great. Thank you. Thank you to all of our witnesses for your valuable testimony. And thank you to my colleagues also for your questions. The members of this committee may have some additional questions for the witnesses, and we would ask that you please respond to those in writing.
▶ 1:30:26Under committee rule three, members of the committee must submit any questions to the committee clerk by 5 p.m. On monday, november 24th, 2025. The hearing record will be held open for ten business days. For those responses, if there is no further business. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned. Thank you all.