▶ 1:12:12Order. Good morning and welcome to the budget committees member day hearing. I want to thank the ranking member for coming. Uh, clear sign of the tremendous support, uh, for reforming the budget process, which I know we share as an integral part of restoring fiscal responsibility here in the nation's capital. And today, purpose of this hearing is to hear testimony from our colleagues on their budget, priorities and ideas for reform.
▶ 1:12:44And I yield myself such time as I may consume for an opening statement. Uh, so good morning. And and thank you to everyone for being here. Uh, this is, uh, something it's a tradition that we've been doing for a long time. Uh, big believer in it, especially in the context of what we're highlighting here today. Uh, of course, none of us has all the answers, but each of us brings a different perspective about, uh, the nature of the problems that we face.
▶ 1:13:11Um, there's one fundamental issue that I think continues to hold congress back, and that is we simply do not have a healthy, functioning, uh, budget process. And the reality is, we haven't had one in a long time. Um, it's crazy, but dating back to the late 1990s, we've averaged more than five continuing resolutions every single fiscal year. And of course, we're operating under one right now.
▶ 1:13:38Uh, no serious enterprise, uh, could operate this way and expect good outcomes. Uh, but for dc, fiscal apathy has become routine, and I think the results speak for themselves. Uh, during the recent shutdown, our national debt surpassed, uh, surpassed 38 trillion this year. Think about it. We're taking in 5 trillion spending 7 trillion.
▶ 1:14:05We're spending a trillion a year on interest alone, which is, of course, more than our entire national defense budget. Uh, ray dalio has warned that, uh, we're inviting a debt induced heart attack. His words, instead of treating the disease, we keep arguing about the symptoms. Partizan fights over 20% of the budget, while the other 80% are mandatory spending runs on autopilot.
▶ 1:14:29Uh, a process built for another area just cannot carry the weight of today's fiscal challenges. Uh, just think about how, as we discussed at our last hearing in more than 50 years, the cbo, congressional budget office has never undergone a single external operational audit. Not one.
▶ 1:14:52How could we produce better outcomes if cbo has never been independently evaluated for accuracy, uh, transparency or performance? There are numerous common sense reforms like this on the table that I think can breathe new life into the process and shake off the cobwebs and lift the bias back toward action. Last congress, our committee, the budget committee, came together to pass 14 bipartisan reform bills. And we can do a lot more.
▶ 1:15:24We need better, more. Modern rules of the road need clear, measurable targets to guide us. Uh, which brings me to another idea that's gaining traction. We know that right now, deficits are averaging around 6% of gdp. At that level. The debt grows faster than the economy.
▶ 1:15:44Interest costs accelerate, and we risk drifting toward a sovereign debt crisis, bringing deficits, deficits down to about 3% of gdp, cutting that in half, which is a target endorsed by both ray dalio and also by secretary paulson, has talked about this that would stabilize the debt and begin to restore credibility. Mandatory spending driven by social security and federal health programs.
▶ 1:16:11Interests on our debt now accounts for about 90% of all future spending growth. And the recent reconciliation bill we get we began to move the needle, delivering historic mandatory spending reductions. Social security and medicare now face insolvency in 2032 and 2033, respectively, but no long term fiscal plan is credible if it ignores the health care system. In my view, this conversation must happen on two tracks.
▶ 1:16:40First, making americans genuine consumers of health care able to shop, compare, push the system toward value, and second, tackling the practices that inflate every medical bill. Excessive hospital markups, opaque middlemen, and patent games that keep drug prices artificially high in time. The broader challenges should be taken up by a fiscal commission. And of course, we've passed a bill out of committee. Uh, we've expressed support.
▶ 1:17:09I've expressed support for modeling one after the successful greenspan commission to confront these issues plainly and without regard for the politics of the moment. This is another area where I welcome the input and ideas of members we'll be hearing from today, because ultimately, we can't reverse the curse of public debt without exercising the political will to make the tough decisions we all talk about. And while we can't manufacture political will in a hearing room, we can create better conditions for it.
▶ 1:17:40Certainly better than a tough conditions we have now. So today and in the months to come, I'm hoping to appeal to the better fiscal angels. Angels of our nature. There's still a part of this institution, and a part of each of us that understands the responsibility that we all carry. We didn't come here to preside over decline. We came here to leave the country stronger than we found it.
▶ 1:18:03And if we can summon those better fiscal angels, discipline, transparency, stewardship, we can begin to make choices that protect the next generation. That is the mission of this committee, and it's the urgency of this moment. So I look forward to hearing from members. Look forward to our discussion today. With that, I'm pleased to yield five minutes to the ranking member from pennsylvania, Mr. boyle, for his opening statement.
▶ 1:18:32Thank you to my fellow pennsylvanian and happy to speak to this standing room only crowd for the beginning of the smucker era. Um, uh, so I, I appreciate, uh, sitting next to you and, and perhaps foreshadowing of, of some things to come, but, um, as far as today, I mean, I just want to briefly address, uh, both on policy and on process.
▶ 1:18:54And I know today is more about the latter, but first, on the former, we are facing a healthcare crisis in the united states. Um, things were already too unaffordable in the united states in so many areas, including and especially health care. And then a bill was passed this summer to make the situation far worse.
▶ 1:19:17Uh, the president used to call it the one big, beautiful bill, but now it is so deeply unpopular, he never even brings it up. The reason, of course, why it's so deeply unpopular is, according to cbo as well as other independent estimates, this bill will cause approximately 15 million americans to lose their health care, and premiums for tens of millions more will rise.
▶ 1:19:45The beginning of those cuts to take effect is january 1st, specifically on the obamacare aca exchanges, the average, and this is just the average expected increase in our home commonwealth of pennsylvania is 102% on our state's exchange.
▶ 1:20:05I've seen other states where it's even higher, so we only have a few more weeks to go in order to solve this crisis and help the american people with their looming increases in health care premiums. I believe that is what we should be doing on that should be project number one this week and for the next few weeks before we hit that january 1st deadline, when it will be too late.
▶ 1:20:33There does seem to be some bipartisan momentum. Some, uh, house republican colleagues have talked publicly about wanting to support something to basically alleviate the problems that were created by the big, beautiful bill for billionaires.
▶ 1:20:51Now we will, I think, uh, continue over the next few weeks and months and even years to discuss and debate differences of opinion when it comes to healthcare, when it comes to affordability, when it comes to a whole range of issues. But the second half of the time, I have let me switch over to process, since I know that is more the, uh, the stated reason for our hearing today.
▶ 1:21:18I believe that there can be common ground here. Sincerely, I've had these conversations I know with with our acting chair, uh, I've had conversations with with chairman arrington, I believe that any long lasting budget process reform will have to be bipartisan. We know that if it's partizan, the very next election and there's a trifecta on the other side, it will be done away with.
▶ 1:21:46I am hopeful that perhaps, hypothetically speaking, if there were a democratic house and a republican president, that there would be, in fact, the, uh, the appetite for some long lasting reform, because it is a fact that 51 years after the budget and impoundment control act of 1974, the process has broken down more often than than it has succeeded over the last 51 years.
▶ 1:22:15If you look at it really, the history from 74 on, the first half of that, roughly the system worked as it was designed. But ever since the late 90s or so, it truly has not.
▶ 1:22:28So I believe that looking at certain things like two year budgeting, looking at other reforms that previous commissions have explored but fail to adopt, I also think that this is an opportunity to address the, in my view, intolerable situation in which you have millions of workers who don't get paid during a government shutdown. We didn't even used to have government shutdowns until the last 50 years.
▶ 1:22:55I think it's also an opportunity to finally reform the debt ceiling process. Uh, a complete anachronism who, let's just say, if its stated goal was ever to bring down debt, it has failed miserably. So I look forward to hearing the ideas from our colleagues. And, uh, let's after today attempt to work in a bipartisan basis where we can on budget process reform.
▶ 1:23:20But let's also not forget the current price, uh, current crisis facing the american people with respect to affordability and especially health care. With that, I yield back. Thank you, Mr. boyle. And just in reaction to a few of the comments, I think you're exactly right. I agree with the ranking member that, um, the changes that are required that we must do will need to be done on a bipartisan basis.
▶ 1:23:49Uh, and the sooner we do them, the better. So I think you've set the standard, along with the chair of the budget committee and how the committee can work together on some issues, which I think has been outstanding. And I think that sets a good foundation for the committee to continue to work and really address some of the issues that you've raised. So look forward to the committee continuing to do that.
▶ 1:24:15Um, I'll say, in the interest of time, if any member has an opening statement, we ask that you submit it for the record, and we'll hold the record open at the end of the day to accommodate those members who may not yet have prepared their statements in writing. Um, so I would like to now welcome our colleagues to the budget committee. Uh, thank them for taking the time to share their ideas and recommendations with us on their budget priorities and how to reform the budget process.
▶ 1:24:45Um, as a reminder, members will each have three minutes to give their oral testimony. And their written statements, as I said, will be submitted for the record. Uh, so now I'd like to recognize representative jim baird, the gentleman from indiana. Mr. baird is a lifelong resident of west central indiana and proudly represents indiana's fourth congressional district. He's a member of the house ag committee, foreign affairs and and science, space and technology committees.
▶ 1:25:13And we're really pleased to have you here with us. And we'll give you three minutes. You may proceed. Thank you, chair, and thank you, Mr. chairman and members of the committee for hosting this hearing and for the opportunity to outline my priorities related to strengthening budget process. I want to highlight an example where our budget process fell short.
▶ 1:25:40Section 701 of the recent continuing resolution appropriations bills, specifically the provision redefining him regardless of how many member fields about the underlying policy, the process by which the provision became part of the must pass appropriations bill reveals several weaknesses, and this is the committee that is uniquely positioned to address this issue.
▶ 1:26:05Since the 2018 farm bill, american farmers invested significant resources to build a domestic supply chain of him. Many use hemp as a rotational crop in diversity income, at a time when farm families urgently need stability set. And yet section 71 781 was added without regular order, without hearings and without allowing the committee jurisdiction to evaluate scientific, economic and regulatory consequences.
▶ 1:26:33This is precisely the type of process failure that erodes confidence in our budgeting process. This issue at hand is not whether consumer protections are needed. I'm firmly believe that we should establish a clear regulatory framework that protects consumers from harm, without undermining legitimate and small businesses, penalizing farmers, or effectively outlawing an entire industry.
▶ 1:27:00States like indiana, tennessee, kentucky, and georgia have already enacted responsible age restriction packaging standards and testing requirements. Meanwhile, the house energy and commerce committee and the senate health committee have ongoing work examining safety concerns and fda authority. That's where this debate belongs. By inserting a sweeping policy change into an appropriations vehicle, we bypassed the expert input.
▶ 1:27:26We ignored alternative proposals and denied farmers and stakeholders the opportunity to be heard. And by shutting down the responsible businesses that currently comply with state regulations, we risk empowering the very bad actors who evade safety rules and target minors. This committee has long warned about policy writers and circumvent both transparency and accountability.
▶ 1:27:47Section 781 provides a clear example of how significant industry wide policy decisions can be slipped into a must pass bills without scrutiny. Going forward, I recommend the committee strengthen the guardrails, preventing major statutory changes from being inserted into continuing resolutions or omnibus bills.
▶ 1:28:08Secondly, redefine the budget calendar to reduce the reliance on last minute crs and three establish enforcement mechanisms ensuring committees of jurisdiction have adequate time and process to evaluate complex regulatory issues before they appear. So I'll just finish with saying that in conclusion. Uh, the 2018 farm bill definition of hemp is sufficient.
▶ 1:28:33And until we can have the opportunity to run this through regular order, as suggested above. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. baird. I come from a county that has, uh, hempfield, east hempfield township and long history of hemp. So, uh, appreciate your comments in regards to in regards to him. So thank you for being here. Thank you sir. Right to the next one.
▶ 1:29:00I now recognize representative kat cammack, the gentlewoman from florida. Uh, miss kat cammack proudly serves florida's third congressional district. She's a member of the house ag committee, energy and commerce committees, and chairs the emerging tech task force. Thank you for being here, I appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. chairman. And I don't see the ranking member, but I am grateful for the opportunity to be here today.
▶ 1:29:28Earlier this year, I introduced h.r. 143, the unauthorized spending accountability act, aka the usa act, and yesterday in oversight committee, it was marked up and passed. Um, so we're very encouraged that this bill has some great movement. It's important because congress has a responsibility to know and to expressly authorize where taxpayer dollars are going. And right now, we are not meeting that responsibility. In fact, we haven't met that responsibility in over 30 years.
▶ 1:29:56This upcoming fiscal year, congress is slated to spend $892 billion on unauthorized programs and agencies. Some have never been authorized by congress, and some haven't been reviewed in ten, 20, even 30 years. This means no oversight, no accountability, and no guarantee that these programs are still working for the american people. And that's, quite frankly, a slap in the face to every single american taxpayer in the country.
▶ 1:30:23In total, 1264 programs and agencies have expired authorizations but miraculously have appropriations. And to put a fine point on it, 49% of all the authorizations that exist have expired, and many of them have expired. Over a decade ago, our bill, the usa act, h.r.
▶ 1:30:44143, puts a stop to that, and it creates a three year step down process for any program operating without a current authorization, a 10% reduction in year one, 15% in year two and three. And if congress can't be bothered to do their job and reauthorize the program or agency with a short three year sunset, then the program self-terminates. Plain and simple. This isn't about gutting programs.
▶ 1:31:09It's about forcing congress to do its job with a $38 trillion debt hanging over our kids and grandkids. The days of autopilot spending need to end. So before I wrap up, I want to touch on two additional ideas that I think could help get our house in order. First is zero based budgeting. Right now, the federal government basically starts every year by saying, we spend too much. We spent this much last year, so we're just going to add a little bit more this year. It makes absolutely no sense. Families don't budget that way. Companies don't budget that way.
▶ 1:31:39So zero based budgeting means that every agency will start at zero and has to explain what they actually need. It brings back common sense into the process. And second, we need a clear plan to pay down the debt. We can't keep pretending that $38 trillion that we owe is not a problem. Interest alone is eating up the money. That should be going to real priorities. In fact, the interest on our debt, as we all know, has outpaced our spending on defense. To put this in terms that everyone here in the room. But of course, watching at home can understand.
▶ 1:32:08Every person in the united states today under the age of 18 now owes the government a half $1 million. My three month old daughter, augusta, was born with a half $1 million of national debt on her shoulders. That is fundamentally unfair. It's disgusting. And we are robbing the future of our kids and our grandkids. So a structured debt repayment plan, once deficit neutral, goes like this, you peg a percentage of the gdp to mandatory spending, which then goes to the principal on the debt.
▶ 1:32:37I am agnostic to what that percentage could be. It could be a half a percent, it could be 5%. But if it is pegged to mandatory spending, then that means we are making a deliberate effort in paying down the national debt.
▶ 1:32:51So for context, if we pegged 3% of the gdp, which would adjust for the cyclical nature of our economy when it contracts or when it expands, we would say 3% of gdp going to principal, assuming nominal economic growth, roughly 4%. But we kept spending flat, I know would eliminate the national debt in 25 years, 25 years.
▶ 1:33:13Now, if we said, we're going to do this with a real scenario because we know congress spends money like drunken sailors, we say we're going to keep spending as it's going, but we have conservative economic growth. That 3% on autopilot to our national debt would wipe it out. In 42 years at least, we would be sending a message that we're serious about paying down our national debt, and it would save us from some of the bigger fights about priorities. The importance of this cannot be overstated.
▶ 1:33:40And really the biggest threat to our national security, being our national debt, has to be addressed before it addresses us. These are not complicated ideas, they're just responsible ones. And alongside the usa act, they give us a real path towards getting this country back on solid footing. So I thank you all for your time. Thank you for your consideration. And with that, Mr. chair, I yield. Thank you, Mr. chair. Would you yield 30s just to say something about our colleagues?
▶ 1:34:08Good work in this area. And she mentioned a lot of areas to me. Getting our fiscal house in order means passing responsible budgets, not passing on doing a budget like we have done most years, year in and year out, passing a responsible budget, living by that budget, paying for any increase in expenses, reducing improper payments, lowest hanging fruit.
▶ 1:34:33We did it to the tune of over $100 billion a year in the big beautiful bill, unprecedented no one has ever got at the waste, fraud and abuse like we did. We should be proud of that. But quite frankly, that should be expected. So let's not get too overwhelmed with our, our our big and beautifulness on that. Like we should be doing that, uh, you know, day in, day out, um, unauthorized spending.
▶ 1:35:01That's the that's the third piece in my mind to have half the government being funded without any authorization, without any oversight. Is it working? Are they meeting the desired outcomes? I mean, this is like basic constitutional responsibility we have. And for half the government, we are letting the people's treasure go out without nigh. Uh, one minute worth of scrutiny to know that it's being well stewarded. Thank you.
▶ 1:35:30God bless you for your passion and for your persistence in getting that usa act, among many other things. You're a you're a budget hawk and a budget warrior at heart. We wish you you're on this committee. Thank you for your service. Appreciate it. Thank you, thank you. I'd like to say as well, these are great ideas that, uh, that you've pushed here and, and certainly look forward to continuing discussions on those and the good work that you did on the raines act, I think was really outstanding.
▶ 1:35:57There's a lot of work that we can do in quite a few areas here, and you've been a real key part of that. So we appreciate you being here. And I'll say as well, since there are not many members here, if any body else, I would be happy to yield time with any of the witnesses since there aren't many members here. So excellent and thank you for your mention of the raines act, which would save $2.5 trillion every year. Thank you. It'd be a good, good step in the right direction. Thank you. All right.
▶ 1:36:25I'd now like to recognize representative randy feenstra, uh, gentleman from iowa and hopefully the next governor of iowa here. But, uh, Mr. feenstra proudly represents iowa's fourth congressional district, is a member of the house ways and means committee and also of the house ag committee. So with that, Mr. feenstra, you have three minutes.
▶ 1:36:48Thank you, chairman smucker, and thank you for the opportunity for me to speak to you today on one of my top priorities ensuring congress behaves as good stewards of our taxpayer dollars by ensuring transparency when we discuss the future of social security.
▶ 1:37:04For years, I've raised a major concern with cbo leadership regarding how the cbo's ten year economic outlook treats social security, the social security, old age and survivor insurance trust fund is projected to be insolvent in roughly eight years, well within the ten year window. But the economic outlook continues to present a picture in which full scheduled benefits are paid. This is a major this major report cited by members of both sides.
▶ 1:37:32Yet it masks a looming fiscal cliff for tens of millions of retirees. As social security trustees and cbo's own long term social security reports already show. Once insolvency hits, payable benefits drop sharply. This is clearly visible in the charts included in those reports were scheduled and payable benefits divert dramatically as revenues fall. However, this is nowhere to be found in the cbo's ten year economic outlook.
▶ 1:38:02One of the most widely read and cited publications for public and policy lawmakers. That's why I introduced the save our seniors act to enact a simple common sense reform. This legislation would require cbo to include a simple graph in the ten year outlook, showing both scheduled and payable social security benefits and how insolvency would affect payable benefits.
▶ 1:38:28The economic policy innovation center notes that the cbo's baseline does not actually reflect current law, providing a misleading picture of what would happen when social security trust fund is depleted within in the next decade. And they and they've called my sos act a common sense proposal proposal to require more transparency. Additionally, the bill was named a no brainer of the year for congress to advance and pass by the national taxpayers union last year.
▶ 1:38:57For seniors who rely on social security, this is a crucial time. They deserve their earned benefits. They don't need inaccurate projections. Save our seniors act provides a simple chart that provides and communicates the need for action to keep social security solvent. I look forward to working with this committee and advance this common sense legislation. Thanks for giving me the time to speak. Thank you, Mr. finch.
▶ 1:39:23Certainly, I think individuals need to understand that social security will go insolvent in 8 or 9 years and people will get a percentage of their benefits. So a chart like that, I think would be a really positive change to look forward to look forward to working with you on this. Any comments, Mr. chairman? All right. Thank you. Mr. chairman. I'd just say I hope we mark this up.
▶ 1:39:49Uh, this this if not this year, early next year for the, uh, because it's a great idea. Thank you. Governor. Thank you. Okay, now, I'd like to recognize representative bill huizenga. The gentleman from michigan is a vice chair of the house financial services committee and a member of the house foreign affairs committee. Uh, Mr.
▶ 1:40:10Hanger also has done a lot of great work as the republican co-chair of the bipartisan fiscal forum and has been an outstanding voice in, uh, talking about a fiscal commission. You've co-sponsored the bill or introduced the bill regarding the fiscal commission. So you've done a lot of great work. So appreciate you being here. Thank you, Mr. vice chairman. And to the chairman as well for, uh, for your work and leadership on, on this very important issue.
▶ 1:40:36And, uh, I appreciate you doing this today to invite members, uh, to come to your committee and express to you the importance and the urgency of so many of these issues that we're hearing about. And, um, just as I did when I testified here two years ago, I'm urging that the budget committee, uh, take action on the fiscal commission act, uh, while the legislation is unchanged since it was amended and passed by this committee, which was a which was a significant accomplishment, uh,
▶ 1:41:07On a bipartisan vote of 22 to 12, uh, our nation's severe fiscal crisis has only deepened. And I was reminded of that when representative carmack was talking about her own three month old daughter being born and saddled with $500,000 in debt because of our national debt. Uh, I have five kids who are now mostly adults. Uh, and I anticipate grandkids at some point or another.
▶ 1:41:34And it's tragic what we are doing to those future generations, our kids, our grandkids, and other future generations of this great country. Uh, and in fact, national debt has grown by another $4 trillion since this committee passed, uh, the, uh, the fiscal commission act and is up to now 38.3 trillion.
▶ 1:41:55And the interest that we pay on this debt now exceeds the defense budget and 23% mandatory social security cuts are coming. They are being driven by this insolvency and are now more imminent than ever. And again, these are not a republican or a democrat saying that this is going to happen. Uh, this is by law.
▶ 1:42:16And the trust funds the trustees are, are indicating when they have to adhere to the law, when this is going to hit. Um, these cuts are projected to come in 2034 after, uh, a mandatory cut to medicare of 11% in 2033. So the status quo guarantees irreparable harm. That should not be acceptable, in my opinion. H.r.
▶ 1:42:463289, the fiscal commission act, is still the most bipartisan, practical and immediate path forward. If not, if not the necessary one for congress to take our 38 equally bipartisan co-sponsors and organizations across the political spectrum agree.
▶ 1:43:06Having studied the topic with the bill's co-lead that you had mentioned, uh, my bipartisan fiscal forum co-chair, representative scott peters of california, I can assure you that the fiscal commission proposal was built on the failures and the successes of past commissions. We did not just invent this whole cloth. We tried to go in and study and learn what what worked and what didn't. In previous commissions. Our commission proposal features equal representation from both chambers and parties.
▶ 1:43:35It's transparent and focused on clear goals. It retains congress's constitutional duties and has real outcomes and actions. Specifically, this bill forces congress to vote on a package of proposals developed by this bipartisan, bicameral fiscal commission.
▶ 1:43:52The four corners of congressional leadership each appoint four members, 16 in total, uh, made up of three colleagues from their chamber and one non-voting private sector representative from the outside.
▶ 1:44:06This commission must craft a package of recommendations that meets clear goals, uh, that are that are detailed in the legislation to both improve the fiscal situation in the medium term and to a change, attain and achieve a substantial, sustainable, excuse me, debt to gdp ratio in the long term for any recommendations related to federal programs for which a federal trust fund exists, the commission must improve their solvency for a period of at
▶ 1:44:36Least 75 years. Additionally, the commission will be proactively transparent and educational by holding at least six public hearings while conducting a public awareness campaign and issuing an interim report. Uh, based on, uh, this our legislation, the commission will vote on its final package the week after the 2026 election or, if extended by passage, by april 13th of 2027.
▶ 1:45:04A simple majority is required to move the proposal to congress, provided it includes at least two members of each party. And finally, once submitted, congress is required to vote on the recommendations without amendment and without delay under expedited procedures in both chambers and in the course of the work, the commission will have to leave no policy option or opportunity overlooked.
▶ 1:45:27As a result, if the fiscal commission forces a vote on this vital issue, congress has been punting for far too long. So let's be clear. Uh, it's not going to be an easy vote by any member, both in this committee or on the house floor, or when it comes to a final product. So it's not going to be easy, we know that. But it could create the last, best chance that we have to avoid fiscal ruin of our great country.
▶ 1:45:55So as I started, let's do this for our kids, our grandkids and future generations. And I appreciate the opportunity to be with you. Thank you. Mr. and obviously, um, your leadership on that has been outstanding. You've just described very succinctly the reasons why this is so important. It's something we absolutely something we absolutely must do.
▶ 1:46:17We you and I agree, and I think every member of the budget committee, that this is one of the greatest threats facing the ability for our kids and grandkids and future generations to live the american dream that we've had the opportunity to live. And so we passed it. It was passed under the leadership of chairman arrington, of course, out of the budget committee in a bipartisan way, as you mentioned. And I think the plan I think the chairman plans to bring that up again and do that this week, and hopefully we can bring that to the floor and get this passed.
▶ 1:46:46It's critical we do that. I'd like to recognize Mr. moore for getting this fiscal commission passed out of committee. Last congress was a highlight of last congress. And not getting it, or at least through the house, was a was a lowlight, in my opinion. And I would, uh, committed to continuing to work to, to push that as much as possible. Just a quick point of clarification. This first vote did vote for the fiscal commission act. You're not voting for anything to change.
▶ 1:47:14You're just allowing us to be able to explore options to, to, to get after our deficit, am I correct? Absolutely. And and quite honestly, um, I think what we are facing here should be recognized by by everyone involved, regardless of political, uh, attachment. Uh, and this is, this is, frankly, conjuring up the courage to at least explore what the options have to be.
▶ 1:47:41And my point is that is not doesn't have to be courageous vote. The tough vote is once the recommendations come back and those go on to the floor for a house vote, we get that's tough. And that's going to cause a lot of consternation from both sides of the aisle. But this first vote to be able to just enact the commission should not be a tough vote. I just wanted to reemphasize that there will be two votes on this, to enact it and get the recommendations, and then to ultimately pass it.
▶ 1:48:09The the first one is not a tough vote and should be far more accepted by my colleagues on the left. Uh, to be able to at least embrace the concept of, hey, see what this world creates. Thank you so much for leading on this, bill. I appreciate that. And I think as we saw, though, during the debate of when when this committee passed it, there are some folks who are debt deniers or at least denying the impact of the debt. And and they're willing to delay and they're willing to punt.
▶ 1:48:33Once again, I just don't think we simply have the time as a nation to do it, because the longer we wait, the harder that final vote will be. So I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah. Great point. I'd like to recognize chairman arrington.
▶ 1:48:48Uh, I'd like to thank representative huizenga for his leadership on what may be the most significant, uh, play to run in congress to, uh, address what is the single biggest debt driver looking 30 years out, 98% of the $125 trillion in unfunded liability on our books today, that cumulative unfunded liability or deficit spending
▶ 1:49:18Is coming from two programs social security and medicare. They're critical programs. One will be insolvent. As, uh, vice chair smucker mentioned, within ten years. There aren't just debt deniers there, insolvency deniers. And I appreciate the leadership and courage of my democrat colleagues. Scott peters, who in that hearing said, we do nothing. We are consigning our seniors to a 20% cut in benefits.
▶ 1:49:46So, um, I'm excited about this opportunity. I believe we made history by just passing it out of committee. That's not good enough. Um, I, I foresee us, uh, building the consensus to to make this a reality. I think president trump's greatest legacy is not going to be fair trade or securing the border. All great.
▶ 1:50:13Or even unleashing economic prosperity. All of them awesome. Restoring peace through strength. Awesome. I think it's going to be saving social security and the safety net for seniors of medicare and the solvency of our nation and children's future.
▶ 1:50:34But just like what preceded reagan and tip o'neill's, uh, grand bargain on that, uh, the greenspan commission, we need this high debt fiscal commission, uh, to proceed that those decisions and have those kind of discussions prior to it, have experts like ray dalio and other outside folks give credibility, help us sound the alarm, and ultimately cut through the politics and have this expedited to the floor for
▶ 1:51:05An up or down vote. That will be a game changer. Thank you, bill, for your leadership here. Mr. do we have to call the high commission? I'm sorry, do we have to call the high commission? We are we stuck on that or where are we? Good. I would I would firmly reject that amendment, uh, on that. But if you if you don't mind me illustrating, I had this point over the thanksgiving holidays and I won't name who this was, but I had a conversation with a family member, uh, who has recently retired, uh, who is single.
▶ 1:51:34Uh, uh, she, uh, she had gotten into a good job towards the end of her working career, uh, and has a bit of a nest egg, but is going to be dependent on social security. And we got into a conversation about what she, as a 69 year old, is going to be facing in the next 8 or 9 years. And it's not good. I mean, this is real impact to people that we know.
▶ 1:52:04This is this is about our kids and our grandkids future, but it's also about people who are currently in the system who are going to have no fault of their own. The system changed on them, not by anything that we in congress or the senate or the white house do, but by simple math and the and the and the law of the land, which says that they will be receiving this cut if we do nothing. That to me is a is a secondary tragedy. Yeah. Thank you.
▶ 1:52:31We could talk about this for a long time and I'm sure we will. Thank you. Mr. bill huizenga. I appreciate your leadership. Um, uh, I know our next witness is tight on time. Getting back to another hearing. So, um, now, would like to recognize representative beth van dyne, the gentlewoman from texas. Uh, miss van dyne. Dyne pride proudly represents the 24th congressional district of texas.
▶ 1:52:55Uh, she's, uh, on ways and means, our colleague on ways and means and chair of the budget and spending task force, has done a lot of great work there and really has been another one outstanding voice in regards to fiscal issues and and tackling our debt. So appreciate you being here. Thank much. I very much appreciate your time and those comments. Um, before I begin, I do want to take just a quick minute to thank chairman jodey arrington. I think jody is is a friend. You're a mentor.
▶ 1:53:21Uh, and honestly, he's the guy who keeps the rest of us sane in a lot of these budget conversations. Um, and when we are losing our mind and doing backflips, I think you're the person who says, all right, keep calm, and here's how to fix it. And and I, for one, want to thank you for your leadership and guidance in helping to draft a lot of this budget. So, um, I currently serve, as you mentioned, uh, the republican study committee budget and spending task force.
▶ 1:53:48The rnc has long served as the conservative conscience of the house of representatives. And as chair, I have prioritized a return to pre-pandemic spending levels and a balanced federal budget as soon as possible. Since january, the task force has been working with rsc members. With this committee, the white house, omb director vought, and a wide range of outside stakeholders to gather proposals aimed at addressing the nation's fiscal challenges.
▶ 1:54:15In recent years, federal spending and regulatory activity have grown significantly, and unfortunately, the extreme spending of the biden administration has further worsened the national debt and long term fiscal pressures. In addition to adding $1.8 trillion, a new regulatory burdens on our businesses, the biden white house ushered in an era of unsustained debt that we now must confront.
▶ 1:54:38The task force has worked diligently to identify options to bring spending back in line, while champion the policies of the working families tax cut act. Addressing the national debt requires difficult decisions, as we just heard, but we believe reasonable, achievable steps in many of which are outlined in the rsc's annual budget. The budget is built around a simple but essential principle that washington must live within its means.
▶ 1:55:02For far too long, federal spending has grown faster than the economy, faster than federal family incomes, and faster than anything that the taxpayers who fund this government can reasonably sustain. Every year we delay course correction, the mountain gets steeper and the consequences get more severe. And that's why our budget provides a clear, credible path back to balance, one that is rooted in conservative principles and fiscal reality.
▶ 1:55:27And because balancing the budget budget isn't just a policy goal, it is a moral responsibility. Every dollar we borrow today is a dollar. Our kids and our grandkids will be forced to repay with interest. And they didn't make these decisions, but were. But if we do not act, they're going to inherit those consequences. So our budget reins in out of control spending. It restores discipline to the appropriations process. It slows the autopilot growth of mandatory programs.
▶ 1:55:54It targets waste duplication and mission creep and across the entire federal government. And it doesn't stop there. It advances pro-growth tax policy. It reduces regulatory burdens and unleashes american energy. And because balancing the budget isn't just about cutting the federal checkbook, it's about strengthening the economy so that families can thrive.
▶ 1:56:16Ultimately, the budget is a roadmap designed to protect the next generation, to ensure that they inherit opportunity and not overwhelming debt, that they that they get to have growth and not stagnation. And they have freedom and not a future bound by washington's irresponsible choices. So I look forward to working with this committee on advancing many of the proposals of the budget, and I yield back my time. Thank you, miss van dine, I, I appreciate you coming to talk about the budget.
▶ 1:56:43I know it really is a great fiscal blueprint to get to a balanced budget. And so we look forward to, uh, incorporating a piece or talking with enacting pieces of the budget or the budget in its entirety would be great as well. But thank you. I know you, uh, are in a hurry to get back to, uh, ways and means, uh, subcommittee right now talking about international tax policy. Yes, yes. So thank you so much for taking your time to be here. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. All right.
▶ 1:57:12I'd now like to recognize representative david schweikert, the gentleman from arizona, who came from the same hearing, I believe, uh, of course, we all know david is a proud fiscal hawk. He's been talking about these issues for a long, long time. Uh, he serves on the ways and means committee and is chairman, doing great work as chairman of the bicameral joint economic committee as well. I appreciate your work there. So thank you for being here. Okay. And Mr. chairman and, jody, I want you to hear one sentence.
▶ 1:57:45My request is actually fairly simple. One of the budget committee. Um, I'd actually like you to use as much real math in your projections. Um, I have a handful of phd economists over the joint economic committee, and we've gone around and around over the last few years. So some of this predates almost anyone in this room, um, where we have laid out what we see happening.
▶ 1:58:11And our great sin is we don't tell the truth. What drives us? Sovereign debt. You know, I want to blame the democrats. The democrats want to blame me. It's interest and demographics. We functionally have the same number of 18 year olds today as we had 20 years ago. Um, Mr.
▶ 1:58:38Chairman, I'd like to actually submit this for your records, but particularly for anyone, your phds in economics, because I'm sure you have some, um, and, and statistical analysis and budget to understand the scale of what's going on. And my proof of concept is very simple. Go back to the beginning of this calendar year.
▶ 1:59:02And the numbers that you and I, we all went around and around and around on, where we at? Okay. Let let moment of honesty. Um, so where's what, 72, 73 days into this fiscal year from october 1st till just before christmas, we're going to borrow another trillion dollars. So far this fiscal year. Now, look, there's timing effects there. There's the bubble.
▶ 1:59:31There's when certain tax receipts come in. But the fact of the matter is, even annualized, we're over $71,000 a second in borrowing. This fiscal year. We're like $148,000 a second borrowing. And the left wants to say it's tax cuts. We want to say it's excessive spending. It's everything simple basic math.
▶ 1:59:55If you add up and I've done floor speech after presentation after floor speech, add up every scored tax hike the left has offered. You get 1.5% of gdp. Almost every cut you and I have advocated for. I get about 1% of gdp. We got ourselves a big two and a half. We tell the truth for the internal borrowing because we've got to pay back the internal borrowing with interest. We borrowed almost 7.2 7.3% of the entire gdp last year.
▶ 2:00:25So by seven here and the left and the right's total solutions only coming in at two and a half, you now have a government that is an insurance company with an army.
▶ 2:00:46We're actually working on a data set right now that says the liabilities and unfunded liabilities of the united states exceed all wages for the future. All wages. In seven years, the medicare trust fund is empty. In seven years, the social security trust fund is empty.
▶ 2:01:09If you intend to take that out of the general fund, as some of our colleagues on the left. Okay. It's we calculate that as first year. So 20, 33 $630 billion. So functionally 60% of the entire defense budget. And it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. It's demographics.
▶ 2:01:37It makes it very hard for those of us who come to you, go to the floor, go to our own committees and say, there's revolutions in technology. We've we've tried to provide that. There's optimism if obesity. And I'm just going to do this one because it's easy. But there's dozens of these is we've calculated as 9.1 trillion additional health care costs over ten years, 9.1 trillion. So functionally, the entire defense budget. And remember defense now is number five in spending.
▶ 2:02:07It's not number one. It's number five in spending. What the president did last week on access to glue tights. And those things were actually sort of modeling what would its economic impacts be? I beg of you. No more 1990s sounding solutions coming from the left or the right.
▶ 2:02:28Um, synthetic biology, ai, um, robotics, um, tax code, regulatory codes, removing the barriers of innovation. So many of the things that would crash the price of health care are illegal because we put up barriers to the very technology that would provide access, make things cheaper, healthier.
▶ 2:02:56I know it. Forgive my language. Pisses off the army of lobbyists outside this door. Maybe we time we tell the truth about the math, and also the fact there's a way to make it work. We don't have much more time. I know I'm against my. But in eight years, nine years, 30% of all us tax receipts is just interest.
▶ 2:03:23If interest rates go up 1%, 45% of all us tax receipts in nine years are interest. This year, for every dollar we take in, we're going to spend $1.43. Every solution you're going to hear here is based on math that I believe is not a truthful. And we're not being bold enough with that. Thank you, Mr. schweikert.
▶ 2:03:48Um, that's very stark reality that you're describing and appreciate you being a voice on this. We must address it. And it is a math problem. Clearly. And without objection, we will, um, enter your submission, um, into the record. So thank you so much for being here. All right. Uh, now, recognize representative zach nunn gentleman from iowa. Mr.
▶ 2:04:13Nunn is a proud veteran of the united states air force and a member of the house financial services committee, ag committee and select committee on the chinese communist party. We appreciate you taking your time to be with us today. And you have three minutes, give or take. Very good. Hey, first of all, to the vice chairman, to the chairman, to the bipartisan nature of this budget hearing.
▶ 2:04:36Thank you very much for having the opportunity to really listen to some of the recommendations and solutions coming from not only frontline members, but from members who have experienced this both at the state legislature and candidly, in our own budgeting process with our own families. These are the kind of recommendations that are not only common sense, they're important for us across the board.
▶ 2:04:54I hear consistently about the good work that this committee has done back in my home district when it comes to things like passing legislation that provides for no tax on tips for frontline workers, no tax on overtime for my first responders, no tax on social security for my seniors. The accomplishments here are putting real money back in working families pockets, and that is the number one way that we grow our economy. We've proven it in iowa, and it's now a playbook for the rest of the country.
▶ 2:05:22Today, I want to discuss something that's also very important to folks back in iowa, our spending challenges. And D.C. by far, is one of the worst at making sure that we balance our budgets. In my home state, we take a common sense approach when it comes to funding. It's the same thing that farmers do. Main street businesses do, and families do. It means you live within your means, and when you work hard, you earn a paycheck. You make sure that you're not spending beyond that and putting yourself in a dangerous position.
▶ 2:05:51Most recently, we had a challenge with a foolish partizan shutdown and it hurt families in my district. And one of those families reached out to me. Doctor sara massey is an obgyn. She's a great mom of three. She lives in central iowa, and she knows about taking care of both families and also timely responses for critical emergencies. So tragically, this year when sara lost her husband, she did what any good mother would do.
▶ 2:06:17She reached out for her social security survivor's benefits, not only helped take care of her three kiddos, but make sure that she had the opportunity to be sustaining going forward and to receive the money that she paid into social security. But instead of being able to receive the benefits that she had paid into, she was met with delay, red tape, no answers, and her family suffered for 43 days. When she reached out to my office, we were able to open a door and help her family out.
▶ 2:06:46But it shouldn't have to be like this. I can't help but ask the question, not just for sara, but for people across iowa. What happens when there are no resources left in social security because of the spending habits of dc? America now is set on a path of a $38 trillion debt. If congress continues on this path, social security will run out by 2032, leaving benefits for over half a million iowans without their full retirement or their survivor benefits that they've paid into back home families like sarah's budget.
▶ 2:07:15Every dollar, they make it through tough days, and they answer the tough calls by staying and living within their means. Our state government reflects that hard work and ingenuity. In iowa, we turned a deficit of $2 billion surplus by balancing the budget and letting taxpayers keep more of what they earned. I believe it's time that washington start doing the same. Iowans demonstrate what's possible.
▶ 2:07:40Hard work, common sense, and living within our means is the best way not only to help keep government in check, but grow our economy. Challengingly I think we all saw over the last four years an administration that was spin happy. In fact, flushing money and taxpayer dollars to the extreme into their own programs. They lived well beyond their means and significantly added to our national debt.
▶ 2:08:02I believe it's well past time that we restore sensible, functional government for our people, not just across america, but in communities like mine in iowa, to be able to keep more of their hard earned money. Thus, mister chair, in my very first week in congress, I introduced a constitutional amendment that would require a balanced budget. It would prohibit total outlays for fiscal years, exceeding the total receipts unless congress authorizes an excess of them by 3/5 majority.
▶ 2:08:28For those emergency situations, this resolution would also require the president to submit a balanced budget, not just a republican or a democrat, but all presidents, not one bloated with partizan wish list items. Washington sacrifices the livelihoods of our children and our grandchildren, our national security and our future. When they put these partizan claims in here. The last time the us reached this level of indebtedness came after world war two, congress took decades to reverse that trajectory.
▶ 2:08:57But through persistent commitment to deficit reduction, the us was able to emerge as the leader of the free world. Today, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have the opportunity to summon the same fortitude that our colleagues in the 1940s did and possess and maintain america's leadership position on the global stage by balancing our budget.
▶ 2:09:15This resolution offers a simple way to restore good governance and public policy, and I believe that members on both sides of this committee can fully support our constituents future and restore washington's financial sanity. Thank you, Mr. chair. I yield back my time. Thank you, Mr. done. Great points. It sounds like washington has a lot we could learn from iowa. Uh, you know, I thought in pennsylvania that budget process was broken until I came here. But at least at the end of the budget process, it was always balanced.
▶ 2:09:44Budget like projected revenues would match expenditures that were that were appropriated. And so, uh, we need to get there. I appreciate your interest in this and appreciate you being here with us today. Thank you, mister chair. If families, businesses and states can do this, I think the federal government, it's up to the task to. Absolutely. Thank you so much, sir. I'd like to now recognize representative william timmons, the gentleman from south carolina. Mr.
▶ 2:10:11Timmons is a member of the house committee on financial services and the house oversight and government reform committee. He also currently currently serves as a jag officer and captain in the south carolina air national guard. We appreciate you being with us. You may begin. Good morning, vice chairman. Mr. chairman, it's great to be with you today. This is an issue that is very important to me. When I first announced that I was going to run for congress in 2018, one of my top issues was fiscal reform in washington.
▶ 2:10:40And I would tell people that when admiral mike mullen in 2010 was testifying before congress, he was asked, what is the greatest national security threat to our the future of our country? And at that time, we had $9 trillion in debt. We had $9 trillion in debt, 68% debt to gdp ratio. And his answer was congress's inability to spend within its means. Fast forward to 2018.
▶ 2:11:06We have $22 trillion in debt, approximately 78% of our debt to gdp ratio. And here we are, 2025, and we're at 119% debt to gdp ratio and over $38 trillion in debt. We are on an unsustainable spending spree. And this is not a partizan issue. This is whether we're going to have a country. We've already been downgraded multiple times. And our, our, our our word as a country is only as good as our ability to deliver on it.
▶ 2:11:34And if we have unsustainable spending, we can't deliver on it. We're going to lose our position in the global community. We're going to lose our ability to do all the good that we have done. We must do something about this. And time is of the essence. In addition to our debt, we also have social security failing in 6 or 7 years. I keep changing the date.
▶ 2:11:55Uh, the thought of every american that is currently relying on social security getting a 20% reduction in their benefits is just completely, uh, it would be the apocalypse. So we need to act. We need to act. Now. I have come to the conclusion that the only path forward, since congress is not very good at doing things is the fiscal commission. And I appreciate y'all passing that out of committee in a bipartisan vote last, last congress. I would hope that we can do that again soon.
▶ 2:12:22I realize that, uh, there's political components to all of this, and it was frustrating for me on the campaign trail to see all the political, uh, all the candidates said that they weren't going to touch social security, which is a lie. It's just a lie. If you don't touch social security, it's touching it. So we have to act. We have to save social security. Um, we got to get 12 people together to figure out a path forward.
▶ 2:12:52And we got to pass a fiscal commission. We got to give them the opportunity to put us on a more sustainable fiscal path. And we have to do it as soon as possible, because it gets harder and harder to do it the longer we wait. Um, Mr. chairman, I hate that you're not going to be in this fight with us. Um, but I hope that you are going to continue to push for the remainder of this congress. And, uh, then from the outside, we must get this done.
▶ 2:13:17Um, our next generation depends on it, and it is completely, um, it's just unacceptable that we do not take the necessary steps. So I appreciate you letting me speak today. And with that, I yield back. Thank you. And certainly appreciate your voice. You've been talking about a fiscal commission for a long time. The chairman, the chairman's leadership, as you mentioned, we passed it out of committee. I think the plan is to pass it again in this session and hopefully, uh, goes to the floor.
▶ 2:13:47I think it's one of the most important things we could do. And Mr. huizenga was in earlier as one of the witnesses as well, talking about the need to do this. And so, again, appreciate your leadership. I recognize that, Mr. chairman. Let me say, um, representative timmons has been a leading voice on this. I'm a sucker for for courage. I'm just a sucker for it. I'm a sucker for it on either side of the aisle, quite frankly, even if I'm in disagreement. What?
▶ 2:14:16What I know to be true after ten years of being here, as I as I reflect on the ten years and as I look forward to going home, we know how to solve the problems facing our country. What we lack is the courage to speak out about them and to work together to solve them. And you have spoken out, and you're talking about things that nobody even wants to mention for fear of the political attacks that will accrue as a result of those statements.
▶ 2:14:46But, you know, the math is real and, you know, the consequences are catastrophic, and you can do no other because your conscience has lit you up in your soul, and you're going to continue to speak the truth, and you're going to continue to stand and fight and work with anyone and everyone who's willing to come to the table. And I just love that. Respect it and pray for more to join you.
▶ 2:15:15Thank you for your leadership. You're very kind, Mr. chairman. Thank you for letting me. Thank you for being here. I'd like to now recognize representative michael cloud, the gentleman from texas. Mr. cloud proudly serves texas. Texas 27th congressional district, is a member of the house appropriations committee and the house oversight and government reform committee, and we appreciate you being here. You may you may proceed. Yeah. Thank you, I appreciate it. It's good to be here.
▶ 2:15:42And, uh, also address the chairman over here. My my colleague from texas. Um, I think this committee has passed a resolution saying you can't quit or something. You know, we're a little upset. You're leaving us, uh, to continue to fight the battle, but certainly appreciate the voice of clarity. And I'll also say the voice of courage. You've been, uh, in swimming upstream on the headwinds that try to keep the status quo in this place. It goes for you, too.
▶ 2:16:08Uh, vice chair, uh, appreciate the work that y'all are doing. I wanted today to talk about the issue of our national debt and our spending. This is has been mentioned a number of times today. Of course, a tremendous national security issue. Uh, it's also as we try to address affordability and inflation and all those different kind of things. It's it's a huge driver of those issues as well.
▶ 2:16:30Uh, and at a cost of $1 trillion a year, our debt servicing is the third largest share of our national national deficit every year, second only to to, uh, social security and medicare. Uh, so this is pretty significant. And of course, our debt servicing serves no value to the taxpayer. Uh, it's dollars that don't go to any sort of help or program or anything.
▶ 2:16:54And so, um, you know, when we're looking for areas to, to, to find savings for the american people and to bring fiscal sanity to what's going on. Uh, and it's unconscionable, really, that we continue to borrow from the generations that are coming after us. That's just immoral, uh, to, to try to meet the needs of today on the backs of our kids and our grandkids. Uh, and so this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
▶ 2:17:20And this is one of the reasons why the very first bill I introduced in congress, uh, was the cost estimates improvement act back in 2018, the cost estimates improvement act would require the congressional budget office to incorporate interest costs when scoring bills. And so, uh, like anyone who's bought a car or a house, you realize that the sticker price isn't the real price. Uh, there's a monthly fee that comes along with that. And and you're paying interest.
▶ 2:17:44And sometimes in the case of, uh, housing, you might end up paying more in interest cost, actually, than the sticker price, uh, depending on how you structure that loan. Um, well, we don't even count the cost of interest when we're weighing the legislation that comes before our body. Uh, and it's it would behoove us it's so important for us to be counting the cost of that, because it is such a major driver of our deficit. And so, uh, thankfully, this committee passed our bill out of committee.
▶ 2:18:12So I want to thank you for the work on that in a bipartisan fashion. Uh, really, this is not a partizan issue. Uh, and so this should be an easy fix. Uh, you know, when it came to congress in 2018, this was one of those things that you think would be an easy fix, you know, and it's surprising that it's me. It's taken 5 or 6 years now. We're still working on trying to get such an easy thing fixed, like getting the congressional budget office to do something that they should be doing without even being asked. Um, and that's to count the cost of interest.
▶ 2:18:42So I just ask this committee to take it up again, uh, and let's do what we can to get it out of committee again this term, as you all did, uh, last session. And, uh, get this to the house floor and get it passed, uh, certainly would appreciate it. And, and, um, you know, it would just do great service for us, uh, as a congress trying to work on behalf of the american people.
▶ 2:19:07I also do want to share the concern, um, to the budget committee on the need for increased transparency with the cbo. Um, I appreciate the efforts of the cbo recently, uh, as we work through reconciliation and the like to try to bring some transparency to the process. And, uh, but I do think it's important for us to codify that. I know representative warren davidson has a cbo show your act bill that I think would be very important for them to show and to show, to publish the models, the data, the assumptions that it's using.
▶ 2:19:36When scoring legislation, it's important that their their scores be peer reviewed, uh, and that be public because as we know, many of their estimates have been off by wide, wide margins. Um, their scoring of the inflation reduction act, for example, failed to account for trillions of dollars in green new deal spending. I think it was, uh, estimated initially to be, what, a $238 billion savings. And wall street came out and said, no, it's actually going to cost, uh, over $1 trillion.
▶ 2:20:06And then that continued to grow the longer it went on. And until we kind of put a stop to it in our reconciliation bill. Um, and so it's important we deal with that. At the same time, the health division, uh, um, is is bipartisan. There's no republicans in the health division. So their scores, certainly, as we address the health care needs, have gone, need to be addressed.
▶ 2:20:30And, uh, I just realize I'm way over my time, so I apologize, and I will be quiet now and yield back to the chairman. Uh, thank you for your indulgence. I'm sorry. Thank you, Mr. cloud. We've been we've been given some extra time, so you're perfectly fine. I think your your first bill. The cost estimates, um, improvement act, uh, did, as you know, pass last session. I think it was just told it was a 17 seven vote. So it was a bipartisan bill. Yeah, I think it's a great bill.
▶ 2:20:56Um, and I think the plan is potentially to bring that bill up for a vote again this session, and hopefully we can get it to the floor and get it passed in the house. And then the chairman has been leading the way in holding cbo accountable. Yes. Uh, asking them for more transparency, asking them for an audit. And so I think he'll view that bill pretty favorably as well. I don't know, I don't want to put words in his mouth. But thank you for being here, Mr.
▶ 2:21:26Chairman, just for my colleagues, uh, Mr. edwards and Mr. moore, for their edification as well, when we passed 14 bipartisan bills out of this committee, which has never happened in 50 years, two became law. Uh, again, unprecedented. Um, but don't think that just because they haven't become law, that people aren't receiving the message that we're sending.
▶ 2:21:51Cbo has been, uh, objectively acknowledged and affirmed for showing more of their models. Now, they know that we expect that. And whether we pass legislation or not, that message has been sent and received. They have changed some of their panels and panel members in health care specifically. I'm not saying it's all fixed and it's all good.
▶ 2:22:16And we can all, you know, just, you know, uh, go home thinking it's been done, but it's making a difference. We're getting better information. We're getting the cost of interest as part of the overall cost. So the work here is to make it the law. So there's, you know, no question it's going to happen.
▶ 2:22:36But it's to continue to persist in sending the message of what the american people deserve and what the, the their customers, cbo's customers, which is you and every member, republican or democrat, expect from them. Thank you for your leadership. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Mr. crawford. Being here, I'd like to now recognize representative aaron bean gentleman from florida. Uh, Mr.
▶ 2:22:59Bean is a banker, a former member of the florida legislature, and currently serves, uh, of course, on the house ways and means committee, and as well has been an outspoken voice, uh, in regards to the debt and finding ways to reduce our out-of-control spending. So thank you for being here. Thank you very much. And a very good morning, budget committee, it's great to be with you. Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity.
▶ 2:23:22What if what if we had a time machine, we had a time machine and we could go back to april of 1912 to the bridge of the titanic. How would that go? I would imagine the conversation would go like this. Captain, we need to change course. There is an iceberg right ahead and it could lead to disaster. I would imagine the captain would say, you know, uh, I don't think so. We've got two spotters up there to make sure that we're on a safe course.
▶ 2:23:50And by the way, this ship is unsinkable. That's what he would say. We know how that ended. But you look at the spending course that the united states is on, not only, uh, can we see the iceberg right ahead? Uh, we're not changing course. We are just pulling back the accelerator. Let me give you a fact that this morning that I had to triple check just to make sure it's correct. We all know it's 38 trillion.
▶ 2:24:17Our national debt right now, it is seven times seven times what? It was the start of this century. Our social security and medicaid systems are quickly approaching, uh, approaching insolvency without changes.
▶ 2:24:35And thanks to what einstein called the eighth wonder of the world compound interest, we're now spending more on our debt, the interest on our debt than what we spend on medicare and national defense. Two things has to happen, I believe, in order for us to get a safer course, one to get back to pre-pandemic spending levels. Uh, I'm preaching to the choir. This the members that are here today are on that team. Uh, covid, you know, we upped it during covid, but yet covid is over.
▶ 2:25:05But covid left us. But yet those still high spending levels are still with us. We also have to address the largest driver of our spending. It's health care. Uh, we spend more than any other civilized country, uh, by by a multiple. Yet we get mediocre results. Right now. We've got to change something different. And in 2010, when obama signed the affordable care act, he promised lower and lower cost. But yet here we are.
▶ 2:25:31That premium has had an increase of 78% in just 15 years, doubling the rate of inflation. So as the conversation starts on health care, what to do? The answer can't be let's just spend more money. All that gets us is more inflation and higher costs as we go forward. I want to thank you, Mr. chairman. Arrington. Chairman arrington, you've been a warrior. You've been a warrior.
▶ 2:26:00You're the one that's been on the steps of the capitol screaming iceberg right ahead. And west texas is not only going to miss you, but this body and this country is going to miss your leadership. Uh, so members, as the new year approach approaches, we got a new year. Let's all resolve to turn this ship around. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. bean. Couldn't have said it better. That's a that's an excellent visual. And I know you've been speaking about this for a long time.
▶ 2:26:30You know, it occurs to me, Mr. chairman, there's a large group within this body. Everybody's coming here talking about the debt like it's we can get this done. So thank you for being here. Have a great day. Go get em. All right. I'd like to now recognize representative rich mccormick gentleman from georgia. Doctor mccormick is a veteran, an emergency medicine physician, and a proud member of the house armed services, foreign affairs and science, space and technology committee.
▶ 2:27:00So thank you for being here. Thank you. Gentlemen. It's interesting to hear person after person come up here and talk about the debt. We all know we have $38 trillion of debt. We all know what that's a problem. Choir preacher. That's kind of how you have a line up of preachers today talking about different ideas. Everybody wants to fix social security. We know it's going to go insolvent, but we will wait till last minute almost certainly, because otherwise we get vilified. Whatever. Whoever's in charge and tries to fix this will be vilified as trying to cut off. We're not going to let it go bankrupt.
▶ 2:27:29We're going to shore it up and it's going to go purchasing more massive debt. Same thing with medicaid. We can't make even subtle common sense cuts to medicaid or make it accountable, because of course we're the bad guys. By cutting off millions of people who could actually be doing something better in their life. Uh, but we're vilified for that same thing with medicare. We, despite our best efforts, all of our considerations to do the right thing have always been thwarted by people who want to buy votes with other people's money.
▶ 2:27:58But I have a great idea that I think can be bipartisan. And that's common sense, where people have control their own destiny, even inside of the federal bureaucracy, which I think everybody can get behind. I think everybody here is a potential co-sponsor, and this is the incentivized savings act. This is something that is brainchild of 30 years ago, when I was in the military as a logistics officer for my squadron, I got to enter my fiscal year. And just like everybody else, I saved about 10% of my budget for emergency funding.
▶ 2:28:26And in the end of the year, if I don't spend that, I'm penalized. Every bureaucracy in america right now, if you don't spend your your budget, what happens? You lose that money, it goes, somebody else spends it anyways. And then next year you're you're probably going to get a smaller budget because you didn't need your budget. So everybody's trained. Every federal bureaucracy in america is trained to spend every dollar they have, so they don't reduce their budget the next year. How ludicrous is that?
▶ 2:28:53Any business who did that, you would immediately that cfo would be fired, that business would go bankrupt. And yet that's our standard, our standard of government spending incentivize saving back turns on its head. When I brought up to the speaker his first, his first reaction was, it sounds too good to be true. His first reaction was, why haven't we done this before? This next reaction was go run that by cole and the cardinals and see if it's even doable. When they said yes, I knew we were on to something I brought up with Mr.
▶ 2:29:24Arrington. I know you're a true fiscal conservative. I know both of you. And by the way, these are all my friends, my friends here in this room. And this is something where I get to self-govern, where you have a government agency, when you get to the end of the fiscal year and you say, gosh, I have money left over, instead of being incentive, I incentivized through a stick being punished for not spending your money, you actually get rewarded. It's simply put, 49% of the money that you don't spend. Goes to next year's budget.
▶ 2:29:54You actually get a bigger budget rewarded by getting a bigger budget next year, 49% goes back to debt and deficit. But nobody can criticize you because you're in charge of your own department. If you don't want to do that, you don't have to. I'm not going to punish you, but I'm going to incentivize you to do it to save the american public some money and also increase your budget next year so you can get that line item you couldn't afford this year. Two carrots. And if that's not good enough, we're going to swing it up a little bit more.
▶ 2:30:22We're going to give you 2% left over as bonuses, retention bonuses to that department. Up to 10% of your salary. So now three carrots to do the right thing. And instead of two sticks to do the wrong thing, you're in control of your own destiny. You can't. Nobody can vilify you for this. It's a built in dose inside each department. Instead of having doge come and say, I'm going to cut your department, and I'm going to tell you how you get to determine what's most efficient for your department and what's efficient for the next year's budget.
▶ 2:30:50Without penalization, it's incentivization control, and it can redefine the way we spend money in government and rightsize government permanently. I think it's a brilliant strategy. I ask for your support. I ask for your co-sponsorship. I want to get this bill passed before we lose this opportunity, because once we're gone, so is the idea. Yeah, well, thank you, Mr. mccormick. Uh, it sounds like a really interesting idea.
▶ 2:31:14I personally haven't spent a lot of time looking at that, but I certainly will, because, I mean, we all know the the budget process is broken. We need to look at reforms of that process. And this sounds like a really, uh, interesting idea. So we appreciate you sharing it with us. Mr. chairman, how can you not get excited? I mean, think about it, chuck. These guys are coming from all over our conference, various committees, various parts of the country.
▶ 2:31:41We're going to save our country, and we're going to do it with the people that have graced the witness table today and the people who've showed up here. Uh, by the way, all republicans, um, we're going to need our democrat colleagues. The budget process is just a set of incentives. And as peter drucker, the father of the science of management, said, incentives drive behavior.
▶ 2:32:06If you cannot do a budget and not pay for it, that means there's no I mean, meaning no consequence. Guess what? We'll take the easy path of least resistance. But if you say no budget, no recess, can't go home, I bet you we get a budget done. We talked about unauthorized spending. That's not an appropriator issue. That's an authorizer issue. What if you started losing authorization resources for your programs? If you didn't authorize before they, uh, before they funded it?
▶ 2:32:36And what if we actually had incentives to not spend it so they didn't fear losing it at the bureaucracy? But we incentivize savings, man. Just getting incentives. Right, I think would right the ship clean this place up and set us on the right track. Thank you so much. Uh, doctor mccormick, for your leadership. And thank you for your service and your fiscal conservatism. I will say this, too. I'll end with a quote.
▶ 2:33:02Uh, the first time I ever met him, he was asked, what's your next big idea? He said, I got a million ideas. I can't go to bed at night because I have so many ideas. But the question is not what my next big idea is, but what can I actually execute? What can I finish? This is something that we can finish. This is not a partizan issue and this is not pushing grandma off the cliff. This is self-determination and it's something hard to vilify. We can pass this bill. Yeah. Great. Good work.
▶ 2:33:31Thank you for being here. All right. Uh, now, recognize representative nathaniel moran gentleman from texas. Mr. moran is a former county judge. But, uh. Uh, okay. This was written for chairman arrington. He, too, is a texas tech red raider. I don't know that I can say that. He could have started with that. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. Uh, thank you to the budget committee for holding this important member day hearing.
▶ 2:34:00And thanks to all my republican colleagues for their great ideas and for the budget committees, uh, hard line stance in making sure that we remain fiscally responsible. Thank you to chairman arrington for his leadership. Uh, you're going to be deeply missed. When I first came to congress, I recognized a hard truth. Our runaway spending, um, stands among the greatest threats to the economic freedom of the american people. The debt, then, was about $33 trillion. Now it's far higher.
▶ 2:34:28Our nation now carries a bloated national debt of $38 trillion and growing a burden that grows much larger every day, we know, is going to impact our kids and our grandkids. A soaring national debt weakens the american economy and jeopardizes the security of this nation. It fuels inflation, pushes interest rates higher, and places a real and increasing growing burden on hard working americans now and in the future.
▶ 2:34:52I know each one of you that are sitting here today know that our country's prosperity relies heavily on our ability to grow and innovate. But those strengths can only be unlocked when our fiscal house is firmly in order, and the blame cannot be laid, by the way, at the feet of any one party, all points along the political spectrum and both major parties bear responsibility for where we stand today. We both have spent way beyond our means. As a result of the fiscal crisis. We have allowed.
▶ 2:35:20We have allowed to take shape. I introduced the principles based balanced budget amendment during the 118th congress, and I have reintroduced it again during the 113th congress as house joint resolution 110. This proposed constitutional amendment, which is written in a way that is meant to be comprehensible, practicable, possible, and meaningful, will allow congress to affirm the principles of maintaining a balanced budget without overriding any of its policy making power year to year.
▶ 2:35:49The text of this amendment and the core principle reads simply as follows. Expenditures and receipts shall be balanced, which may occur over more than one year. Now that seems, uh, seems common sense to most americans. Families balance their budget. Uh, businesses balance their budgets. Cities and counties balance their budget. How come the federal government can't balance their budget? My constitutional amendment proposal also gives congress the practical time that it needs from passage to get to a balanced budget.
▶ 2:36:17It recognizes that we've dug ourselves a pretty good hole. It's going to take time to get out of it. It also allows for emergency spending with two thirds approval from both chambers. And I think that's important to recognize the need for future congresses to have some flexibility when there is indeed an emergency.
▶ 2:36:34The full text of this pbb is only two paragraphs long, so as to allow flexibility for each congress to decide how to balance the budget, whether it's structural or biennial, and to give congress discretion to change the design of the implementing legislation while staying true to the end result of a balanced budget. This bba would serve as a foundation for congress to implement detailed legislation that meets the moment. As those moments and circumstances change over time.
▶ 2:37:03For the better part of two decades, washington has amassed a bill that future generations cannot afford to pay, and the result is unmistakable. Families and businesses are being squeezed by crippling inflation and interest rates that continue to climb, and our debt now has become a greater burden on our current annual appropriations, our current annual expenditures than even our defense department.
▶ 2:37:29And the result is, uh, it is important to note that the important the importance of this committee and its role in providing congress with information regarding federal spending, revenue, deficits and debt, which should shape how congress appropriates its money. Thank you for doing that so eloquently over the past couple of years. We have to recommit the basic shared truth by every household and every business across this nation. That lasting prosperity requires living within our means.
▶ 2:37:55That starts with a balanced budget and restored fiscal responsibility. It's not too late to restore that fiscal sanity, as the chairman has said many times. Yet the seriousness of this self-inflicted wound calls for bold principle action. And that's what my principles based balanced budget amendment meets in this moment. Thank you, Mr. chairman, and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. moran. I appreciate you being here.
▶ 2:38:17And I think a balanced budget amendment would be one of the most important things we could do, or some sort of fiscal debt brake, whatever it may be, uh, whatever we could agree upon. But, you know, we talked earlier today with someone who was here, talked about, um, iowa's budgeting. And I'm from pennsylvania. Uh, going through the process there, it was a tough process. At times it was delayed.
▶ 2:38:42But at the end of the day, there was a requirement, as I don't know how many states have a balanced budget amendment, but many of them do. And there's a requirement to that expected expenditures or expenditures will match will match expected revenues. It would be one of the most important changes and the way you've designed it to achieve that over a period of time, because we know it can't be done all at once. But like if we just make take incremental steps in the right direction, we understand it's going to take a while to solve it.
▶ 2:39:10But if we take steps in the right direction, we can get there. It'll buy time. People will continue to have faith in us treasuries, but we've got to do it now. And I think this would be an amazing change. So thank you so much, Mr. chairman. Mr. chairman, leave it to texan to take a very complicated and complex problem and to simplify it with how about we just force congress to do it?
▶ 2:39:34Everybody else in the world, at every level of public and private office and standing, has to do live within their means, balance the budget. Um, guns up. Thank you for your leadership, Mr. moran. Thank you. Uh, all right, now, I'd like to, um, recognize a member of this committee. Mr.
▶ 2:40:01Representative josh brecheen gentleman from oklahoma proudly serves oklahoma's second congressional district and has been an absolutely outstanding member on this committee, an important voice in in getting to fiscal responsibility. Um, also serves on the house homeland security committee, so I look forward to hearing it. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Um, thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you, Mr. vice chairman. Um.
▶ 2:40:27I've got a committee vote about to take place. There's a word to the wise. A few years ago, I read. The more the words, the less the meaning. How does that benefit anyone? So I'm gonna make this quick to make it to my vote. Um, I hope to do such a good job that, uh, chairman arrington, um, gives me an a go pokes salute. Um, when I get done, like he did, gave the red raider salute. Uh, just a moment ago. Here's my challenge, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:40:54You're going to ride off into the sunset with your cowboy boots on this next year. And, um, Mr. vice chairman, we've done reconciliation one in a discussion with the chairman of a very influential committee related to health care. I think there's some great optimism that we can do reconciliation, part two on health care out of this committee. And so, yes, let's, uh, let's, uh, aim for the moon in your last year.
▶ 2:41:21If we miss, we'll land among the stars. We've got muscle memory on doing reconciliation health care at 20% of our gross domestic product. We all know in terms of affordability, it is the big issue. This committee has the the courage to lock in. Um, those of you that are in leadership, this committee have the respect of the conference. We represent a wide group and there's influence. And so let's use it.
▶ 2:41:48And so this last year I don't want you to go out just talking about the working families tax cut before you get done this next year. Let's do reconciliation part two on health care. Because I think the 43 day government shutdown caused people to really understand we have an unaffordable, unaffordable problem. The affordable care act cannot be compounded upon by more subsidization. We have to overhaul health care if we're going to give every family a chance to have lower health care costs. So giddy up. Let's go. Go, pokes.
▶ 2:42:18Uh, miss Mr. keene, we're not going to let you out of the hot seat. That that that that the call votes. Well, that's his problem. He's, uh, you know, uh, I'm the chairman. I can keep you here. I don't I have a rule about that. Uh, look, I if before I ride off in the sunset, I want to ride into the fight with a cowboy from oklahoma. You are true cowboy. Um, humble.
▶ 2:42:46You put in the work, you know your stuff. You come here prepared, and you come ready to fight. Sometimes fighting means going against your own party and the political pressures not to work with our democrat colleagues. Fighting looks different every day in in every, at every turn, in opportunity.
▶ 2:43:09But at every chance you're there to fight in a very righteous way, in a way that honors and glorifies god. Thank you. And and also reflects well on the people you serve. Reconciliation 2.0 I've got two of the strongest leaders on the issue of restoring fiscal responsibility in this country, and blake moore and lloyd smucker here, our colleagues.
▶ 2:43:36Why would we be given this historic and monumental opportunity from the american people with the most consequential tool of reconciliation and pass on it? If we can work with our colleagues?
▶ 2:43:59And I hate to say it, but I haven't had a single democrat witness talk about the debt, the budget, how we make it more accountable, responsible. So it's just us if we can work. And there are plenty of ways to work with our democrat colleagues. And it's always better, in my opinion, to do it because it's more sustainable.
▶ 2:44:20If you can move the needle in the right direction and if there's a willingness, but if there's not, because the political pressure just keeps mounting as we get closer to the midterm elections, then we have a sacred responsibility and trust to use everything at our disposal to right this ship and to set our our country on a course for prosperity and sustainability.
▶ 2:44:53We did right on energy policy. We did. We did some good on tax policy. We did some really good things to rein in spending and reform entitlements and put work incentives in. Healthcare is the biggest tax on our economy and our families. We have an incredible opportunity.
▶ 2:45:14I would include we have some opportunity to lock in what president trump has done with some of his trade deals to so we can get the certainty into the economy and claim victory for some of the things he's done to bring countries to the table, to have an even fair and reciprocal trade relationship. For once, we have an incredible opportunity. And I think, uh, we have not hit our full stride and we have not gone into that last gear yet.
▶ 2:45:43We do those things with the same unity and courage. We did the first reconciliation, and I think we will have done right by this country and the people who put us up here. Amen. Go, pokes. Uh, with that, Mr. moore. Mr. smucker, any final comments? Go, utes. Mr. smucker, thank you for presiding. Uh, god bless america. Go west texas, and we're adjourned.