▶ 0:05:10The uh hearing will come to order. And um the purpose of this hearing is to examine the current state of conflict in Sudan, including very pervasive uh reports of atrocities against civilians and to evaluate US policy options to bring the fighting to an end.
▶ 0:05:27And uh I would would ask before yielding myself time and then my distinguished ranking member, unanimous consent that uh Congressman Green from Texas and uh Congressman Sherman from California be allowed to sit on the dais and participate in today's hearing. Without objection, uh so ordered. Good afternoon.
▶ 0:05:54And I do thank our distinguished witness um from the State Department for his flexibility. And my ranking member, we do have a series of votes coming up which will um take up about an hour and a half or more. So, this thank you for the flexibility. Uh last week I had the honor of attending President Trump's convening of two African leaders to bring an end to the decades of bloodshed and war in Eastern Congo.
▶ 0:06:21It is through the president's leadership and his distinguished Secretary of State and the tireless efforts of other members of the staff that the leaders were able to sign an historic accord, the Washington Accords for peace and prosperity, the gravity of which we hope will result in a lasting and sustainable peace between Rwanda and the DRC. Yes, there already been some setbacks, but it is it is a is a well-meaning and a I think a well-articulated effort.
▶ 0:06:51And again, being at that signing ceremony, I've worked on the DRC Congo issue for three decades and and I almost couldn't believe that this was happening as it did last week. The president is a man of peace, peace through strength, and I am encouraged by his focus on engagement on Sudan. Sudan is under the darkest clouds, a catastrophe that has for far too long been met with paralysis by the international community.
▶ 0:07:16The people of Sudan have been subjected to unbearable pain, suffering, and loss of life and even slavery for decades. Three decades ago in 1996, I chaired a hearing on the scourge of slavery in Sudan and in Mauritania, where we heard testimony that absolutely chilled our souls. I went to Khartoum in August of 2005 and met with President Omar al-Bashir and other government officials to press for an end to the genocide in Darfur.
▶ 0:07:46The meeting was necessarily contentious. Bashir denied any wrongdoing or [clears throat] complicity in the Darfur genocide. In 2009, however, Bashir was charged by the ICC with committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.
▶ 0:08:02And in 2010, he was the first person ever charged for the crime of After meetings with Bashir and other government officials, my staff director Greg Simpkins and I visited two refugee camps in Darfur, Karma camp, and stayed overnight in another, Mukjar, an experience that profoundly motivated me to do more and others to do more to end the mass violence.
▶ 0:08:25When our helicopter landed at the remote Mukjar camp, thousands of women and danced and clapped and sang beautiful traditional African songs. The people of Darfur have a remarkable generosity in spirit, and it was all inspiring. Just about everyone we spoke with, however, especially the women, told us personal stories of rape, senseless beatings, and massacres by the Janjaweed and the Sudanese militias.
▶ 0:08:52Former Trump administration Africa director in the National Security Council, uh Nicole Widdersheim, who will testify today from Human Rights Watch, uh lived and worked in Sudan for 7 years, and she was on that trip. And she recounts it briefly in her testimony today to Mukjar.
▶ 0:09:10Ambassador Sam Brownback, um for when he was a senator, along with Congressman Frank Wolf, uh were the first members of Congress to visit Darfur in June of Their historic trip, followed by an aggressive advocacy for the vulnerable and the victims, helped galvanize efforts to try to end the violence. So, I'm always appreciative, we all are, for what uh those two great leaders did.
▶ 0:09:35Former chair of the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, Tony Perkins, has also led a delegation to Sudan, and in 2020 and today will testify um that both the RSF and the SAF have a common enemy in Christians. Christians have been denied food aid and told, "Unless you leave your you will not get any food. I mean, that is just again, talk about coercion.
▶ 0:10:03Can Isaacs of Samaritans Purse has who testified at our at our subcommittee hearing this past May 22nd, will testify and I quote in pertinent part, today the humanitarian situation in Sudan has deteriorated further. That's just, you know, 6 months ago, half a year. It's gotten bad worse. What's happening in Sudan is a mandate a man-made famine with 21 million people facing acute food insecurity and 6.5 million in or near History is not just repeating itself in Sudan, it is compounding.
▶ 0:10:34President Trump has called Sudan the most violent place on Earth and the single biggest humanitarian crisis and said tremendous atrocities are taking place. Today Sudan is in a state of collapse. We are witnessing a genocide that indeed echoes the horrors of the 2000s perpetrated by the very same actors who soaked the soil of Darfur with blood for two decades. The Catholic bishops and again, when the faith community speaks out, they do it at great risk.
▶ 0:11:03They have been very very strong in saying, we find ourselves deeply disturbed by the ongoing devastating conflicts and the dishonored peace agreements in both nations. They're talking about South Sudan as well. Especially with the worsening situation in 2025. It is alarming that dialogue is no longer seen as a vehicle for harmony, healing, reconciliation, and unity. Uh the prelates write. The bishops called out politicians in Sudan and South Sudan for astonishing lack of respect for human dignity.
▶ 0:11:34There will never be peace in Sudan unless there's accountability for the atrocities committed by uh General uh al-Burhan and the Sudanese armed forces and Mohamed uh Dagalo, uh known more commonly as Hemeti of the Rapid Support Forces, RSF. These two have sadly savaged Sudan with impunity.
▶ 0:11:57Just last week, over 100 civilians, including at least 63 children, were killed in South Kordofan uh state when the RSF attacked a kindergarten to compound the horror the RSF then reported the attack to first responders and the ambulances as they rushed wounded children to local hospitals.
▶ 0:12:17Since this conflict erupted in April of estimates suggest as many as 150,000 people have been slaughtered and more than 10 million people have been These aren't just numbers.
▶ 0:12:31Every murdered civilian, each child starved to death, uh each woman violated is a person whose life has been taken and I'm deeply disappointed by the previous administration's delays in imposing robust sanctions, which many of us called for, and allowing the fight to spin out of control uh from its beginning. For too long we have dithered with Burhan and Hemeti as they cemented their power.
▶ 0:12:57It is unconscionable that Burhan was allowed to travel to New York to be received by the UN Secretary General, granting legit legitimacy to a man with massive amounts of blood on his hands. We must also be clear-eyed about the external factors fueling this fire. On Tuesday the Department of the Treasury announced sanctions on a Colombian-led transnational network of hundreds of former Colombian military personnel who have traveled to Sudan to fight alongside the RSF since 2024.
▶ 0:13:29It is the illicit flow of Sudanese gold smuggled by the RSF through the UAE that is directly funding Hemeti's war machine. We cannot turn a blind eye to the UAE's role in supplying weapons that kill innocent Sudanese civilians. Simultaneously, we see the malign influence of Russia seeking a naval base at Port Sudan and reports of Iranian drones bolstering the SAF.
▶ 0:13:55Sudan has become a playground for foreign powers while the people serve as collateral Today's hearing is again, like it was 6 months ago, a call for more action and a cessation to these hostilities. External financing and arms flows must stop.
▶ 0:14:12The UAE must cease all illicit support for the RSF and Turkey and Iran must halt military assistance to the Crimes against humanity, particularly by the RSF, including mass rape, ethnic targeting, and systematic looting must be investigated and the perpetrators held accountable. And the RSF, I would point out, I believe, should be designated as a foreign terrorist organization, uh an FTO. I'd like to now yield to my good friend and colleague, Ms. Jacobs, for her opening comments.
▶ 0:14:47Thank you so much, uh Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses um who are coming today. I'm I'm glad that we're holding the second hearing this year on Sudan um to bring attention to the ongoing catastrophe. It's been over 2 and 1/2 years since the outbreak of war in Sudan. It is now the largest humanitarian, internal displacement, and food crisis in the world.
▶ 0:15:09Nearly 30 million people, 2/3 of Sudan's population, are in dire need of humanitarian assistance and over 19 million people are facing acute hunger. Famine, which is entirely man-made, is confirmed in El Fasher and Kadugli. More than 13 million Sudanese have been displaced from their homes since the conflict began, including nearly 4 million people forced to flee across Sudan's borders as refugees.
▶ 0:15:35And I've seen this firsthand when I traveled to Chad and met with Sudanese refugees last year. Let's be clear. This is a war of choice. The Rapid Support Forces, the Sudanese Armed Forces, and allied militias have waged this war, committing war crimes, and holding the Sudanese people captive for their own selfish interests. SAF continues to indiscriminately bomb civilians while the RSF inflicts the second genocide in 20 years in Darfur.
▶ 0:16:04And their external backers, particularly the UAE with their support to the RSF, in addition to Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Russia, have turned this war into a regional proxy war by supporting and arming either side, risking further regional The crisis has deepened over the past 2 months as the RSF overtook El Fasher and the world only knew from the satellite images that showed destroyed neighborhoods, flood-soaked grounds, and mass graves. Children have fled El Fasher without their parents.
▶ 0:16:35And reports include accounts of widespread slaughter and rape by the RSF. But the real tragedy is that the international community saw this coming. And now experts are predicting the same fate in South Kordofan. So, I welcome President Trump's new-found and long-overdue attention to this crisis after months of neglect.
▶ 0:16:54However, I'm concerned that many of the administration's actions have not only set themselves up to fail, but also worsened the suffering of the Sudanese Earlier this year, Secretary Rubio cut millions of dollars in assistance to Sudan as part of President Trump's sham foreign assistance review and illegal dismantling of USAID.
▶ 0:17:13For example, USAID was previously supporting the heroic efforts of the Sudanese Emergency Response Rooms to open community kitchens and provide basic meals to Sudanese civilians throughout the These kitchens are uniquely situated to assist communities cheaper and faster than traditional NGOs, which is why the Biden administration started funding But the Trump administration cut all funding for these kitchens, forcing nearly 80% of all ERR activities to stop and affecting over 1,460
▶ 0:17:44community kitchens operating across Sudan, cutting off vulnerable Sudanese civilians from life-saving food assistance. Today, nearly 250 kitchens remain closed and 315 kitchens can only provide one meal a day.
▶ 0:17:59And that is just one example of the administration's counterproductive The Trump administration shut down the Conflict and Stabilization Operations Bureau, which had critical conflict expertise in Sudan that could have supported the administration's peace And President Trump has failed to name senior positions to lead Africa policy. Almost a year into the administration, there is no nominated person to be Assistant Secretary for the Bureau of African Affairs at the State Department.
▶ 0:18:27He has not only failed to appoint an NSC Senior Director for Africa, but has actually combined the Africa and Middle East Directorate. And he has so far refused to nominate a special envoy for Sudan that is required by law. I would sincerely like to believe that the President's peace agenda is real and will result in real peace. But it's hard to believe that when he has at every turn gutted our foreign policy institutions and neglected to get dedicate the necessary staff and resources to make peace not just possible, but enduring.
▶ 0:18:59the Sudanese people don't have time to We need immediate action to hold external backers of the RSF and SAF accountable for their crimes and lack of commitment to a ceasefire. The UAE, for example, is the main backer of the RSF and has made it possible for its genocide to take place. At this point, we've all seen the widespread and credible reporting detailing the UAE's funneling of weapons to the RSF and their efforts to hide it.
▶ 0:19:24But instead of using the US's significant leverage to pressure the UAE to stop arming the RSF, the Trump administration blew through Ranking Member Meeks' congressional hold in May and approved a $1 billion arm sale. And to be clear, this criticism is not specific to this administration. I was also critical of the Biden administration's unwillingness to hold the UAE accountable.
▶ 0:19:48I believe that the United States needs to use its significant leverage with the UAE to pressure them to finally end their support to the RSF. That's why I've introduced the Stand Up for Sudan Act that would do just that and why I've joined with Ranking Member Meeks as a co-lead of the US Engagement in Sudanese Peace Act, which would cut off arms to any country sending weapons to the RSF or the SAF. And there are so many more meaningful actions this administration can take.
▶ 0:20:14For example, despite the deteriorating humanitarian situation across the country, the State Department has not yet set up a disaster assistance response team, commonly known as a DART, to address the crisis. I urge the administration to do this And while I was glad to see new sanctions designations on Colombian mercenaries that are fighting for the RSF, they do not designate any of the Emirati entities that are funding the scheme, including the Global Security Services Group. I urge the administration to name and sanction these entities.
▶ 0:20:45If President Trump is serious about the peace agenda in Sudan, he should reverse the damage that has been done to our critical programs and institutions, invest the necessary resources and staffing, and take tangible actions to help end the war in Sudan and secure a sustainable peace agreement that ends military rule, establishes a civilian government, and provides a clear roadmap to democratic elections. The Sudanese people have suffered enough.
▶ 0:21:08It's time for the United States and the international community to step up and focus on bringing an end to this war so so the Sudanese people can finally rebuild their country. So I look forward to hearing from Deputy Assistant Secretary Spera on the State Department's plan to realize the president's interest in peace in Sudan and from our expert panel to hear their recommendations. Thank you, Chairman Smith. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 0:21:30Thank [clears throat] you and I let me welcome our very distinguished Deputy Assistant Secretary for the Bureau of African Affairs at the US Department of State, uh Vincent Spera, uh before us today. From 2021 to 2024, he served as the US Consul General in Johannesburg, in South Africa.
▶ 0:21:47His other overseas assignments include serving as acting deputy chief of mission and political economic counselor uh at the US Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and earlier as a political economic and consular officer in Mongolia, Canada, and Chad. Uh he has a very distinguished career and without objection his full vitae will be made receivable will be a part of the record, uh but I yield him such time as he may Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:22:16Uh good afternoon, Ranking Member Jacobs, other members of the committee. Really appreciate the invitation to be with you today to address the horrific conflict in Sudan, which of course is well-documented began in April 2023 and has caused the world's worst humanitarian crisis. Uh and the parties' manipulation and obstruction of emergency aid have truly exacerbated the suffering of the Sudanese people. And both as the chairman and ranking member both commented in their opening statements, uh this crisis and famine are man-made.
▶ 0:22:46Uh just this fall, the world watched in horror as the paramilitary Rapid attacked civilians as thousands of them fled El Fasher in North Darfur and survivors talk of reaching humanitarian hubs have described sexual violence, summary executions, and other unspeakable atrocities. And tens of thousands of missing civilians never reached safety. And sadly today the RSF is repeating those tactics in the court of ends. From our perspective, there are no good actors in this conflict.
▶ 0:23:15The Sudanese Armed Forces, known as the SAF, have also committed atrocities and the administration unequivocally condemns the atrocities committed by both Members of the RSF and allied militias have committed genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and ethnic cleansing. And members of the SAF have also committed war crimes, including in May when the United States announced the government of Sudan used chemical weapons in 2024.
▶ 0:23:41As President and Secretary Rubio have both emphasized, the administration is committed to helping end these atrocities in Sudan. We have held built We have held bad actors accountable, including by sanctioning both the SAF and RSF leaders and individuals from and supporters of both parties. Since the war began, uh up to and including the sanctions just mentioned, we've sanctioned over 40s and individuals and entities to impose real consequences for fueling the conflict.
▶ 0:24:06That includes a September sanctioning of SAF-aligned Islamic actors to limit Islamist influence and curtail Iran's destabilizing influence. And then just 2 days ago, as as Ranking Member mentioned, sanctioning of Colombian entities and individuals that directly supported the RSF's horrific attacks Uh these sanctions send a clear message that the conflict and external to support to the warring parties must stop and that we'll continue to hold malign actors accountable.
▶ 0:24:34Under President Trump's leadership and at his direct instruction, Secretary Rubio and Senior Advisor Masoud Boulos have been spearheading negotiations with the belligerents and regional The president is personally driving this effort as we work with the quad members of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates, as well as other partners, to facilitate a humanitarian truce and end the external financial and military support fueling the fueling the We've put forward a strong tax for a humanitarian truce and urged the parties to accept it without any preconditions.
▶ 0:25:05Also underscored that all parties need to honor their humanitarian commitments, including refraining from attacking civilians and allowing full, safe, and unimpeded humanitarian access throughout the country. The United States also remains the leader on humanitarian assistance, but we cannot do it alone. However, under this administration, we have provided more than $405 million in assistance for people in need in Sudan and that includes life-saving food assistance, nutrition, health services, sanitation, and shelter.
▶ 0:25:36But as we sit here now, the onus is on the RSF and SAF to agree to end this President Trump recognizes the importance of ending this conflict and that an unstable Sudan threatens regional stability along the critical Red Sea corridor.
▶ 0:25:49It also creates a permissive environment for terrorists, adversaries such as Iran, and transnational criminal As as a closing note to my statement, I just note that I I first worked in Sudan in the early 2000s as a junior officer in Chad during the height of the Darfur genocide, supporting congressional delegations visiting refugees fleeing across the border. Perhaps, Mr. Chairman, uh associated with some of the trips you uh referenced in your opening statements to the region.
▶ 0:26:16Uh I later worked in Sudan in the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor after the fall of Bashir. Uh in in those roles and others, I watched Sudan move away from mass atrocities to the path towards a civilian-led government on a democratic path before that process was senselessly And it's very much our hope that with peace and stability, the Sudanese people can return to civilian-led governance in Sudan. And we very much look forward to working with Congress to end the conflict. Thank you very [clears throat] much for the time and look forward to the engagement.
▶ 0:26:45Thank you so very much, uh Mr. Secretary. Let me ask you if I could um with the UAE, um obviously Hemeti is counting on the support that he gets from them for money, for arms, for all kinds of support. Uh why can't that be turned off overnight? I mean, it seems to me that we do have a a relationship with the UAE that's very real and robust.
▶ 0:27:10Um that to me is, you know, if that stops, uh it it will provide an opportunity and they are part of the quad that will provide an opportunity uh for a cessation of hostilities to occur. And secondly, with regards to the African Union Peace and Security um what are they doing?
▶ 0:27:31You know, AU increasingly was taking on a more robust role um during the last crisis in Sudan and South Sudan. And um you know, the the talk was uh and it was very real that more of the peacekeepers need to be not just blue helmets, but people that are, you know, under African Union leadership.
▶ 0:27:54And um I'm not sure what role, you can tell us, they're playing to just get the warring factions to to stop it. Um and and then on the humanitarian access, what are we finding in terms of groups being able to get in safely? Uh we know that convoys of World Food Program and others have been uh attacked. Um and you know, humanitarian workers are there to do nothing but save and preserve life.
▶ 0:28:23Uh and yet they become then the victims as well. And of course then what they would bring to the victims of this violence never never shows up. So as a beginning some of those thoughts. Your thoughts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate those questions. I'll I'll try to take them take them in order. First on the um uh external support to the parties, I think just to refer to Secretary Rubio, he's been very clear that we need to do everything we can to bring an end to external support and that needs to stop.
▶ 0:28:51Uh in in our view, uh we've been making the case at the highest levels and working through the quad and other mechanisms with any and all parties that have influence uh on the actors to to bring an end to that support. And when we talk about external support, that's not just direct support to the parties, but also indirect support um through through other countries.
▶ 0:29:13So that is absolutely a a major focus of the quad and I think I refer to the September quad statement where it's very clear that the quad and its members are committed to bringing an end to that. Um on the African Union, yes, absolutely, we're we're in regular contact and engaged with the African Union both on the need to press the two belligerent parties to to bring an end to this conflict.
▶ 0:29:35Our efforts right now, again referring to the quad statement, we're focused on a roadmap to peace starting with the humanitarian truce to allow for the delivery of more humanitarian assistance, which would create the conditions for political dialogue and ultimately a civilian led Right now our strong emphasis is that the parties need to accept that humanitarian truce as the first step along that road map and and the African Union we're we're working in close contact with them to exert any and all pressure on both the SAF and the RSF
▶ 0:30:06to agree to that truce to allow this process to move forward and bring an end to the conflict. We also are working very closely with the African Union and other partners about creating the conditions for civilian led dialogue. There's wide range of civilian groups that are committed to a future peaceful prosperous Sudan and the African Union has an outsized role to play in bring coordination and cohesion to that efforts to help integrate a future civilian led government into the to the broader African Union community.
▶ 0:30:36On your question on humanitarian assistance, absolutely agree with you the conditions on the ground are extremely difficult and challenging not just for civilians, but as you know the humanitarian workers themselves. We're pressing all the parties on the critical role of protecting workers, but there are some avenues of support getting in. We've pressed the parties to keep the Audrey border crossing opening on Chad that's open through the end of the year. Of course that needs to remain open for longer. Some supplies are getting into to Wila to the west of El Fasher.
▶ 0:31:06So some some assistance is getting in, but there are many many obstructions that we're pressing the parties to overcome so that assistance can get where it's needed. Now has there been an analysis of what say the humanitarian corridors were to open up tomorrow as to how much would be needed whether or not there's an availability of food and medicine and the like to quickly be deployed to people who are at in many cases the point of death. Yeah, thank you.
▶ 0:31:34I'd have to get back to you on any specifics on on pipeline or readiness, but but at the moment our real focus is on the protection issues and opening up that access due to these man-made bureaucratic that are preventing the delivery of assistance. How helpful has been the United Nations in this process? Um particularly you know WFP and some of the other you know that's to me is one of the best organizations on the Absolutely. Especially OCHA. We're we're in constant contact with OCHA.
▶ 0:32:02Tom Fletcher the Under Secretary the OCHA the excuse me the the resident coordinator on the ground to make sure that any diplomatic pressure we're applying on the countries reflects the challenges that the UN agencies and other humanitarian implementers are experiencing on the ground. Okay, I see I'm out of time, but I I would just ask one final question and then yield to my colleague. Um is this something where the president could pick up the phone and talk to the UAE and say just stop it? As I said Mr.
▶ 0:32:28Chairman the external the role of all the partners in this effort is major emphasis and and we're exerting all the pressure we can including through the quad and other
▶ 0:32:39Cuz I know we have very little influence on Iran and their support for the government you know forces, but it's um seems we would have a disproportionate ability there to effectuate change. We're very focused on that as the secretary said. Thank you. Mr. Jacobs. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I actually want to follow up on the chairman's questions about external actors in particular UAE.
▶ 0:33:04Um you know we've seen over the past two and a half years many many credible reports by the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the State Department funded Sudan and Conflict Observatory, France 24, Reuters, Amnesty International and the UN panel of experts and our own that the UAE is sending weapons to the RSF and continues to do so.
▶ 0:33:27I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record one of the most recent reports a Wall Street Journal article how UAE arms bolstered a Sudanese militia accused of genocide. Thank you. Mr. Speer I I guess I wanted to follow up because you said just now in response to the chairman that the quad and its members are all committed to bringing the war to an end, but do you agree that the UAE continues to provide material support to the RSF?
▶ 0:34:00you ranking member Jacobs. I would again refer back to the secretary's comments on the critical role of ending external support and cover continued efforts to work with all actors on that front.
▶ 0:34:11Okay, and what is the department doing to utilize its significant leverage in the form of arms sales including a 1.4 billion dollar sale of helicopter and F-16 fighter jet parts that President Trump circumvented Congress on to push the UAE to stop its support and hopefully prevent another mass atrocity.
▶ 0:34:29Yeah, thank you. As far as broader arms sales issues and those relationships I have to refer to my colleagues either in our political military bureau or our Near Eastern Affairs Bureau. It's not something that I'm directly involved in. Okay. Um I will follow up um which brings me to the broader point which is it's unclear to me who's actually driving the policy on Sudan and you know I'm glad that the president has new found interest, but I am worried that having no assistant secretary, no senior director
▶ 0:34:59for Africa at the NSC, no special envoy despite a legal requirement, no USAID, no conflict and stabilization Bureau and you know I'm concerned that this administration lacks the adequate staff and attention to actually address this conflict. So could you clarify today who within the administration is the lead on Sudan Thank thank you ranking member.
▶ 0:35:23You know from my perspective in the Africa Bureau we're we have extensive amount of attention to the Sudan crisis from the secretary on down. We have obviously direct uh So who within the State Department is the lead on Sudan policy?
▶ 0:35:36Well our Africa Bureau senior advisor Bulos and we're getting all of our direction from Secretary Rubio. Okay. I would argue that the crisis in Sudan is the largest on earth. I'm not sure that you know a senior Bureau official with no confirmed assistant secretary is the right level and while I appreciate what special advisor Bulos is doing he is also in charge of the DRC crisis as well as Arab affairs. He is not Senate confirmed.
▶ 0:36:04I'm not sure he has the time or credibility to take this on. I would appreciate him appearing in front of our committee so that we could actually ask him these questions if he is in fact in charge. You said you feel like you have adequate staffing. How many in the State Department currently work full-time on I would have to get back to you with any exact number, but our our reorganization as we were for back as Ambassador Pratt our senior Bureau official was before this committee just a few weeks ago and and I think as he noted after the reorg
▶ 0:36:34of this past summer the Africa Bureau is actually larger than it was at the beginning of the administration and that includes a reorganization of our East Africa team. So so the team that I oversee that works on Sudan is actually larger now than it was at the onset of the administration. That's part of our broader office of East African Affairs. The exact numbers I don't have that with you today.
▶ 0:36:54I would also say back to your comments earlier about senior advisor Bulos and Secretary Rubio the relationships that they have forged and we have forged across the inter agency really do reflect a whole of government effort and and the clear direction from the White House and the seventh floor of the State Department are really rallying a lot of that support to ensure that we're we're dedicating all of our attention to the Sudan crisis. Great and I will look forward to having senior advisor Bulos in front of this committee so we can ask him our questions.
▶ 0:37:22Lastly, what is the State Department's plan to respond to the president's interest in finding peace in Sudan? Can you repeat that? I'm sorry.
▶ 0:37:30Yeah, what what's your concrete plan to respond to the president's interest in finding peace in Sudan?
▶ 0:37:35Yes, so I would there I would there's a twofold answer to that. So the overall process the overall plan is as outlined in the quad statement which I referenced before. The immediate effort is to press the parties to agree to this humanitarian truce for 90 days. That would allow the delivery of humanitarian assistance and provide the space for a political dialogue to lead to this broader transition period and ultimately a a stable civilian led process over the long term.
▶ 0:38:04So that's the overall architecture of the approach. Within the department we do that in in really three different pillars to our approach. There's direct engagement with the belligerents to press them on all of these fronts on the humanitarian truce as well as having that dialogue on the way forward. There's engagement with any and all parties that have influence on those actors.
▶ 0:38:26Yes, the quad, but also others including as referenced earlier the UAE, European countries, other countries and neighboring countries are critical to this effort and then third is the longer term effort to bring some cohesion and coordination to the civilian led effort. So there's the broad path to peace undergirded by our three-pronged approach with the belligerents, with external influencers and to create the conditions for a civilian process. So those two nest together. Thank you.
▶ 0:38:53Um you know I'm concerned that despite that announcement being made on September 12th, it's been nearly three months and we have no humanitarian truce. So I appreciate all the work you all are doing, but I think it's clear we need to be doing more to stop this bloodshed. Thank you. Chair recognizes [clears throat] Mr. Auchincloss. Thank you very much Chairman Smith. Thanks to our ranking member Jacobs. Thanks to all of our witnesses who will be providing testimony today. Mr.
▶ 0:39:20Speer I want to thank you for your many years of service to government here in the our country and I look forward to working with you on this critical issue. I come at this work as a father and someone who has spent my career fighting for kids. And so for me what is happening to Sudan's children is unconscionable and it deserves our full attention. We know the images speak for themselves. Starving, and displaced, and traumatized children.
▶ 0:39:47Makeshift hospitals overflowing with the sick and the Classrooms reduced to rubble. Every parent understands the fear of being unable to protect your child. For families in Sudan, this is now, unfortunately, their daily reality. Even places that should offer refuge, like schools and hospitals, have turned into battlegrounds.
▶ 0:40:10A recent drone strike on a kindergarten on a kindergarten in South Kordofan that killed dozens of children. A drone drone strike on a school in Kumo that killed school students. And the evidence of mass killings at a children's hospital in El Fasher are just a few of many examples of how children are being explicitly targeted. These attacks are unconscionable. Sudan now represents the world's largest children's crisis.
▶ 0:40:40More than 15 million children in Sudan need life-saving assistance. Nearly 4 million children under the age of five, 4 million children under the age of five, are experiencing acute More than 6 million children have been forcibly displaced due to the conflict. The world's largest displacement crisis for children. And as we have saw, schools have been turned into shelters or battlegrounds.
▶ 0:41:0890% of school-aged children have no access to formal education, representing the largest education crisis in the Girls are especially at risk of sexual violence and trafficking, and young Sudanese boys are being abducted into armed groups and forced into the fight. None of this is inevitable. It is a result of choices made by parties of this conflict and those who enable them.
▶ 0:41:35Children are being starved by blocked aid, put in harm's way by attacks on civilian infrastructure, and ignored when negotiations treat their protection as an afterthought. Changing the course for Sudan's children will require focused, deliberate action. So, I was here to ask a few questions about the State Department's work as specifically on that front.
▶ 0:41:57Uh first, given the scale of violence against children in Sudan, how is the State Department prioritizing the protection of children in its diplomatic and humanitarian efforts? And I'm specifically interested in what concrete steps the State Department is taking to ensure that child protection is a central pillar of the US response across Sudan. Thank you, Congressman. Really, really appreciate that question and and your focus on the issue.
▶ 0:42:25This this entire issue of civilian protection really uh is at the core of what's been discussed so far in this hearing, that this crisis is man-made, and that this has been the deliberate obstruction uh and choices made by both the SAF and the RSF uh not just to block or prevent the delivery of aid, but also take actions that are harming civilians, including children uh and others.
▶ 0:42:47So, uh our our constant focus in our engagements with them, in our engagements with all of our partners, is on the importance of assist humanitarian workers, protecting civilians, and and really uh choosing to let assistance in and ensure that the people of Sudan are put first, which sadly has not been the case on either Appreciate that.
▶ 0:43:11Um also wanted to just ask you briefly in my remaining time about unaccompanied children, um many of whom who have been um arriving in uh Tawila following the assaults and the attacks that we've seen. Uh can you talk to me about how the State Department is currently supporting or planning to support um children through enhanced protection and a sufficiently scaled-up response um to address these unique humanitarian needs? Yeah. Th- Thank you, Congressman.
▶ 0:43:37As I I mentioned in my previous answer, we're in constant contact with uh humanitarian assistance providers, the the UN assistance agencies, as well as direct humanitarian assistance providers uh to to ensure that we have an understanding both of the level of need uh that that we're provided that we can provide as well as other partners can provide, but also the conditions that are preventing them from delivering the the necessary assistance. And so, that's absolutely part of our our ongoing efforts.
▶ 0:44:03I'd have to refer you uh back to our assistance experts or to those organizations for specific actions, but but there's that constant dialogue to ensure that our support is calibrated with the need on the ground. Appreciate that. I look forward to working with you. I again want to thank our chairman and ranking [clears throat] member for holding this hearing and lifting up these really important issues.
▶ 0:44:22If our country is going to have any sort of moral standing in the world, I think it's critical that the United States play an important role here um in in the violence, but but more importantly uh in the fallout that so many innocent individuals are experiencing. I I thank you for the time, Mr. Chairman. I yield I want to yield to Meeks. chair recognizes Mr. Meeks. Okay.
▶ 0:44:51Chair recognizes Miss Thank you, Mr. Chair and ranking member for having this um this important hearing today, and thank you, Deputy Assistant Secretary, for being here. Over just the past week, we've seen more than 100 children killed in school and attacks targeting South Sudan's economic life. Further evidence of the accelerating atrocities atrocities in Sudan.
▶ 0:45:15President Trump has repeatedly stated that ending this conflict is essential, not only to halting bloodshed, but to safeguarding the US national security as an unstable Sudan threatens the Red Sea corridor, creates space for terrorist networks, and open doors for malign actors such as Iran, and disrupts regional economic and humanitarian system. Given that resolving this crisis will require a combined effort in forcing ceasefire, large-scale humanitarian relief, and support for civil society.
▶ 0:45:44What specific steps has the Trump administration currently taking for these first two components? Now, you've answered this question a few times, so I'm going to cut to the chase. I think we all have the same concern when it comes to children and the and actually the um strategy behind it. But I guess the biggest concern that we also have is that the FY um '26 was supposed to be cut, you know, the funding for humanitarian aid. Has that been reconsidered? And if it has been reconsidered, what does that actually look like right now?
▶ 0:46:16Thank you. Thank you, Representative. Certainly appreciate the the interest in and focus on humanitarian assistance. I think um when when we look at the humanitarian crisis, um looking at this year alone, as I said, we're we remain the number one provider, the top bilateral donor to the crisis in Sudan at some $405 million this year. Um and and yes, there are always there are huge needs in Sudan.
▶ 0:46:40I don't mean to understate that at all, but but the central part of the challenge right now are access issues and obstruction issues on part of both parties. And so, yes, there are discussions to be had and will continue to be had in engagement with Congress on levels and the way forward, but so much of our attention right now is on this truce, but then more broadly pressing the parties on letting the assistance in, protecting workers, and protecting civilians, because the man-made element of this is
▶ 0:47:10just as important as the levels of aid that are being provided. So, we would love to support those efforts because this is such a huge issue, but without us knowing the funding amounts and what you need to actually make this successful, it makes it difficult for us to have supporting legislation. So, as you come to that place where you're looking at funding levels, and we hope you're reconsidering them, we would love to hear more so we can support it, cuz I think ending this atrocity is our number one priority, cuz it's been going on for too long.
▶ 0:47:38Um and in addition, do you think or do you have any recommendations as of right now how we can support this in in in what context? I mean, bringing it Let me just say a hearing like this is, I think, very important. We have done a lot on our end to elevate the level of attention, including the president speaking out on this just a few weeks ago. We've been, through our role in the UN Security Council, working with other Council members to bring attention through nearly biweekly Council sessions or statements on the crisis.
▶ 0:48:09And in hearings like this and and other uh calls and pressure on the parties to choose to bring an end to the conflict, I think are are critical. So, more more eyes and more voices are needed to call attention to this and show the parties that the way forward is through the road map that we've outlined through the quad statement. Well, thank you so much, and we hope that we can give more attention to the humanitarian crisis, and we can allocate as many funds that are actually necessary. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 0:48:37I'd like to chair the recognize the ranking member, Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Chairman Smith and ranking member Jacobs for holding this very important hearing today. And I want to thank our witness here, First Deputy Assistant Secretary Spehar, and for those who are on the second panel, we appreciate your work and your And I think that the attention that this hearing, I would hope, you know, the press was in here and everyone else was covering it, because the largest
▶ 0:49:08humanitarian crisis in the world is taking place right now in Sudan. The Rapid Support Forces, the Sudanese Armed Forces, and various allied militias are responsible for inflicting heinous violence on the Sudanese people. They have destroyed a nation's hopes for the future, and in the pursuit of corrupt they are in pursuit of corrupt wealth and power.
▶ 0:49:39The United States has a long history of supporting the Sudanese people. And I recall when Omar al-Bashir's regime enabled genocide in Darfur two decades ago, we had more of outrage, more noise. Thousands of Americans rallied on the National Mall here in Washington, D.C. Celebrities highlighted the injustices at every turn.
▶ 0:50:04And Congress passed actual legislation to increase sanctions, support human rights, and bolster peacekeeping. I don't see that urgency today. And I believe we cannot allow this to be a forgotten conflict. In fact, I can recall myself and a number of members of going to Darfur and confronting al- Bashir directly.
▶ 0:50:31We cannot allow and cannot be numb to mass displacement, mass starvation, and mass graves. I think it's past time for Congress and for the administration to take action collectively.
▶ 0:50:47This means not only pressing the RSF and SAF to agree to ceasefire negotiations, but also enforcing real consequences for external actors, all of them, who continue to fuel the conflict by providing arms or money or mercenaries.
▶ 0:51:08And without these external resources, both sides would be unable to continue killing civilians and committing mass atrocities in their push to take total control of Sudan. Let me be clear. This brutal war could end tomorrow if the parties fueling this conflict ended their support. And there's a number of that are doing it.
▶ 0:51:36And I'm talking about all the parties need to be held And the pressure that the United States and our partners should be applying right now. Instead of, you know, what I see and I don't know the active involvement and how we are pushing the quad with diplomats, not just cutting deals and trying to see, you know, where we get some resources or some minerals or something of that nature and
▶ 0:52:06not trying to just get a title to try to get an award or something of that nature. I'm talking about being ready to um to pick up the phone and make a real impact and talk to all of the members of the quad and get them together.
▶ 0:52:23You know, for example, you know, one of the things that I wanted to ask you and and to talk about um was the United States uh you know what they could do right now to help bolster a responsible regional approach to end the fighting in Sudan is to make uh this a priority engagement with other African leaders. A great opportunity to do that would have been during the U.S.
▶ 0:52:52African Leaders Summit, the ALS, which unfortunately what happened? President Trump was required to have the ALS by law to convene it this year. It's now December 11th and there's no ALS has been held. When members of this committee wrote to Secretary Rubio about this, we received a response that noted the importance of the ALS, but contained no commitment to the summit either this year or even next year.
▶ 0:53:22So, I'm just asking you, will you commit today that the United States will hold the U.S. African Leaders Summit next year so that we can have uh a direct and get the African leaders involved along with compelling and talking to those of the quad to really get something done? Thank you, Representative Meeks. Really really appreciate your comments, especially on the need to bring more attention to the crisis that's happening in Sudan.
▶ 0:53:49And um we'll just underscore that with the president's amplification of the U.S. interest and the secretary's direct engagement, that's exactly what we're trying to do. And and look forward to continuing to work with Congress and others to bring more attention. Um on the Africa Leaders Summit, I'm I'm not able to, you know, sit here today and announce that we have a date or time, but we're constantly working with the White House and across the administration to look at options for high-level engagement.
▶ 0:54:14I I would point to the fact that there have been a wide range of high-level engagements uh including at the presidential level with in Africa. As was referenced in the opening statements, we had the peace signing uh just last week uh between uh DRC and Rwanda. Uh the those two presidents were also at the White House back in June. Uh we've had engagements throughout the year, including in July when the president hosted African leaders at the White House.
▶ 0:54:41So, we are continuing to maintain that high level of engagement with senior leaders at the African across the African continent on these issues of critical importance. Yes, on the security front, on issues like Sudan, on issues like the conflict in the Congo, but also on our broader prosperity agenda, really looking at efforts to to bolster our uh development agenda through a commercial lens that brings prosperity to Africa and to the United States. Well, look.
▶ 0:55:09Uh and it's got to be more about the American people. Let me just ask this, you know, because I know the quad countries, for example, are pushing the RSF and the SAF to agree to a 3-month humanitarian ceasefire and want to build toward a lengthier and more sustainable ceasefire after that.
▶ 0:55:27But so far, the RSF has agreed in theory to a humanitarian ceasefire, but clearly that's not serious because the militia has continued to launch brutal attacks on civilians in and in the Kordofan region.
▶ 0:55:44And the ASF has rebuffed the humanitarian ceasefire I just want to find out what's the U.S.'s approach to this, to gathering and making sure that these the these ceasefires holds and how are they working with the quad?
▶ 0:56:06In fact, you can you tell us in achieving peace in Sudan, how has it if it has since President Trump announced that Sudan would become a priority if it is a priority? Tha- Thank you. Thank you, Representative. Com- Completely agree the onus is on the parties to take action and the words have been empty. The RSF announcing agreement to humanitarian truce.
▶ 0:56:35Exactly as you say, they have not lived up to that statement, especially with the attacks going on in Kordofan. And then the SAF not agreeing to the truce to begin with. I think what what what is different and what we have tried to emphasize is that this truce is the first step in a longer-term plan to lead to a peaceful, civilian-led Sudan.
▶ 0:56:58So, this truce is meant to be short-term in nature to give the space for that political for that political discussion on a transition to happen, while at the same time starting already our efforts to bring the civilian dialogue into a more cohesive structure so that when that time comes, there is something to transition to. So, this is all happening simultaneously, but the first step is that truce.
▶ 0:57:23And our efforts are really focused on pressing the parties and anyone with influence on them, quad members or not, to press them to accept this critical first step to end this man-made crisis. I think I just want to make sure and I'm ready to step and work with the administration if we're going to put pressure and work with and put pressure on those that are part of the quad, whether it's the Egypt or the UAE or Saudi Arabia and us, you know, that's how I think that difference will really happen here.
▶ 0:57:52And I've had conversations when uh um various heads of states, both from Saudi Arabia as well as from the UAE as well as from Egypt, I'm talking to them and try to pressure them.
▶ 0:58:07I would hope that we can work together to make this happen and and and again get all of the external parties stopping from giving to to the various groups and militias because that's the only way that we're going to be able to save and help the Sudanese people. Now, you're back.
▶ 0:58:25Thank you. Thank you, member. Before yielding, Ms. Radewagen, you know, there is a UN arms embargo. It was just renewed. Hopefully the UN and all of us are trying [clears throat] to enforce that. And I would ask you I introduced H. Res. 479 in June calling for a special envoy. And we all know there would have never been a peace um that's now been shattered in Sudan without Senator Danforth. Uh and ditto for Northern Ireland.
▶ 0:58:52Uh you know, that uh because of a special envoy as well. So, I hope that that's something that would be you know, done and done soon. Maybe uh Sam Brownback could do it. I mean, nobody knows this like he does. Uh but we do need someone walking that point. But before you go, I'd like to yield to my good friend and colleague. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:59:24Uh let's see. What concrete and verifiable actions has the government of Sudan taken to fulfill its obligations under the chemical weapons convention and how is the department assessing the government of Sudan's compliance following credible reports of chemical weapon use? Yeah, thank you.
▶ 0:59:46The chemical weapons issue is obviously very serious given our our finding in our announcement that the the government of Sudan did use chemical weapons and we immediately imposed sanctions after that. We've been very clear to the authorities that they need to acknowledge that those violations took place, commit to ceasing to use chemical weapons and fully cooperate with the organization for the prohibition against chemical weapons. Um, we're we're hoping to see that genuine leadership.
▶ 1:00:14It's a press we've made and we've made very clear that if they don't take those concrete steps that additional consequences will be imposed. But the call remains on the authorities to take the steps they need to take and and unfortunately we have not seen them take those steps yet. There are differing reports that the SAF has offered Russia a Red Sea naval base capable of hosting up to 300 Russian personnel and multiple warships. What is the status of that agreement?
▶ 1:00:45How would a formalized Russian military presence at Port Sudan alter the US position in East Africa and what are the potential implications for countries in the region this base becomes a reality? If this base becomes a reality. Yeah, thank you. We're cer- cer- certainly aware of those reports. Something that we're very focused on. We've made very clear to the parties that any action with those Russian authorities or or entities could trigger real consequences.
▶ 1:01:14I think through our 40 more than 40 sanctions over the course of the conflict have made clear we are willing and prepared to take action and we made clear that there would be consequences for actions such as that that run counter to our interest or more broadly run counter to the interest of peace and stability across Sudan and the Horn of Africa as a whole. How else are countries like Russia, China or Iran using the conflict in Sudan to their benefit or to the detriment of the United States?
▶ 1:01:46From our perspective Congresswoman, our focus is on pressing the parties to accept this truce and to agree on a path forward. Any efforts to any efforts to work with the parties that are not in furtherance of that goal run counter to peace and prosperity. So that's where our our emphasis really needs to lie.
▶ 1:02:08So when we talk about Islamist influence, Iranian influence, influence of bad actors, that's what we want to steer away from and get on this path that we've laid out. That's that's the path that's in front of us and that's what we're pressing on with all of our tools especially at the diplomatic level. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Yield back. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:02:32Again, if you could respond on the special envoy if that's very seriously looked at to name someone. And secondly, obviously Ambassador Walls, you know, former Green Beret, was deployed to Nigeria at one point in trying to mitigate the horrific actions by Boko Haram. He gets it and he's at the UN. There is an arms embargo. Is there a plan there as well to push this very aggressively? So I'm sorry about the second question.
▶ 1:03:02Second has to do with Ambassador Walls. What role is are we playing at the UN to try to really get all parties to to stop this senseless killing?
▶ 1:03:12Okay, thank you. On Sudan specifically.
▶ 1:03:14Okay, sorry. I just want to make sure I understood the question. So I just mentioned that he had been deployed to Nigeria. Um, and as part [clears throat] of an effort to stop Boko Haram when he was in the military. So he really understands I think Africa. He was on this committee as you know. So No, thank you. On the envoy question, I'll just say that's that's not a role that I'm specifically involved in in my position. It would really have to I'm certainly aware of the legislation and that that language.
▶ 1:03:41But I would have to refer you either to our office of presidential appointments or other leadership in the department. I'm not involved in that.
▶ 1:03:48could convey that to We'll cer- certainly convey that Chairman. I absolutely understand.
▶ 1:03:51the co-sponsor? I mean I would reiterate though that with the Secretary's involvement and senior advisor Bulos, we're getting very clear direction and guidance on the way forward and and really has the department focused on this. But absolutely we'll relay that. As far as the UN and Ambassador Walls, very close relationship with our team up in New York.
▶ 1:04:09Our leadership including myself briefed him before he took on that position and we've really relied on his leadership in New York to ensure that Sudan remains very prominent on the Security Council's agenda through regular meetings, briefings, statements and and elsewhere. So there's a very very close coordination between our Miss Jacobs and then we'll This microphone is not my friend today.
▶ 1:04:37Darfur, in the days before El Fasher fell to the RSF, the State Department reportedly hosted indirect talks in Washington among the quad members and representatives of the SAF and the RSF. Can you tell this committee what the contours of those talks were and specifically how did the United States engage with the RSF on its apparent concurrent efforts to overrun El Fasher while its representatives were in Thank you Representative Jacobs.
▶ 1:05:04As as far as specifics of the diplomatic engagement, I mean I can't really get in into details. But we as part of the strategy I outlined earlier, it's critical that we remain in direct contact Sure. I understand that. But knowing what had happened as a result of RSF attacks on the Zamzam displaced persons camp and previously in the city of El Geneina, were there any consequences discussed for the potential fall of El Fasher while you were meeting with RSF representatives?
▶ 1:05:33We're in we've been in direct contact with we've been in contact with all the parties throughout and absolutely pressing on the need to avoid the humanitarian crisis in El Fasher So why have there been no apparent consequences for the RSF in the aftermath of their attack on the city given the horrific reports that have emerged? On El Fasher specifically, I mean I would point to the sanctions on the Colombian mercenaries just 2 days ago. But we've taken direct action against the RSF. Its leader is is sanctioned. Other members of the RSF have been sanctioned.
▶ 1:06:01We've done we've imposed a wide range of consequences throughout the conflict. And and on that note, General Hamedti's younger brother Algoni was here for those talks. However, I believe he has been designated for sanctions and he reportedly stayed at the Waldorf Hotel here in DC. Did the administration grant any special licenses to enable his stay? As far as licenses, I'm not sure what that would refer to.
▶ 1:06:28I mean we we engage with all the party we we Well, sanctioned individuals um usually are not allowed to stay in the United States at very nice hotels. Um I mean I can't speak to the the financing or support of his trip. It's not something that we paid for or would have funded or or supported directly through financial means. Our effort includes engaging with any and all actors that have an influence on the conflict including members from the two from all belligerents to the conflict.
▶ 1:06:58And so that's essential part of our effort is placing that direct pressure on on those in positions of authority and influence. Okay. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much. Thank you so very much Mr. Secretary and we look forward to any additional responses you might want to provide and let's work together at trying to stop this bloodshed. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Ranking member really appreciate the attention to this and the opportunity to work with you. Thank you. We're going to take we're going to go No There's no votes yet. Okay.
▶ 1:07:29Um, we know that Sam Ambassador Sam Brownback does have to he has an engagement and he can't miss it. So I'd like to invite him to the witness table to present his testimony. And then we will break for votes and come back about 3:00 and I apologize to our other witnesses in advance for that. But Sam, if you wouldn't mind taking the witness table. And thank you Mr. Secretary for your testimony and I can't have everybody there, can I?
▶ 1:08:00Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for accommodating me on this and on the flight that I have. I um Well, we have 1 minute Ambassador. If the others could come to the table, we and I will introduce them all. maybe a little bit later. I just don't want to No problem. Okay, let me just introduce Sam Brownback cuz the vote has not been called yet and we have 15 minutes once it is.
▶ 1:08:27Sam Brownback served as Ambassador at Large for the International Religious Freedom from February of 2018 to January of 2021. He was also governor of Kansas [snorts] from 2011 to 2018. Prior to that, he represented his home state in the United States Senate as well as the House of Representatives. He has had every important job you could possibly imagine.
▶ 1:08:50While a member of the Senate, he worked actively in the issue of religious freedom in multiple countries and I said in my opening comments, he was the first to go to Darfur and to raise the ugly specter of what was happening there and he helped wake up not just the country but the world and I thank him for that. Prior to his public service, Ambassador Brownback practiced law and taught ag law at Kansas State University. He got got his BS from Kansas State University and JD from the University of Kansas.
▶ 1:09:18He is currently serving as co-chair of the International Religious Freedom Summit and chairman of the National Committee on Religious Freedom. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman, and it's a pleasure to be in front of you. I I think you're the most accomplished legislator in the history of the United States. I don't know of anybody that's gotten more bills passed than Chris Smith has. Uh I'm going to measure that someday and see uh and I don't just say that.
▶ 1:09:44Uh I I say that with great great admiration and respect cuz they've generally been in this field of taking care of people that are in difficult circumstances. I want to submit my testimony for the record, and I would just like to really speak directly to the members here. This is one of these unusual crises that's actually solvable. Uh and that actually, I think each of us can play a role at.
▶ 1:10:07When I saw the end of the meeting and the report coming out from when the Saudi Crown Prince was meeting with the president and the Saudi Crown Prince makes this request to President Trump to end the conflict in I I first at first I thought that's a really kind of an odd request.
▶ 1:10:24It seemed like I I I was struck by why that request, but then I thought this is one of the phenomenal opportunities we actually have to get at one of these crises that generally just go on for years and years, and this one has, and this was a second round in Darfur again, and Frank Wolf and I had gone in and seen this, and you had seen it, and you're just going, "Not again." But what we have to do then, and I would say both to you, Chairman Smith and Ranking Member Jacobs, is
▶ 1:10:54if you could get behind the effort, now and say, "We applaud this effort." And Representative Jacobs, if I was in your spot, I'd be saying the same thing you're saying. So, I I I understand what you're saying.
▶ 1:11:08I and I have no qualms with it, but we actually have a moment here that you could press the president, the head of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, other players in this, and just say, "We have disagreements, but on this, we are all together on ending this conflict.
▶ 1:11:28We call on the two warring generals to step together and to end this, and the outside parties to do this, and President Trump to host a meeting in the White House of these warring generals to sign the peace treaty." They've got it outlined. They've They've got it figured out what it needs to be, and we could get back to a Sudan that we had under the civilian government that had actually thrown out blasphemy and apostasy laws.
▶ 1:11:54No other Muslim country in the world has ever done that, and they had done that. And there was this optimism with that civilian government, so we know there's a track here. We know there's a will here. We also know that President Bashir had the the radical Muslim elements in that country that hosted Osama bin Laden, so those elements are still there in that You got to fight and push back against them, but I would call on the two of you to do an editorial
▶ 1:12:24together calling on President Trump to host this meeting in the White House because if if we can, as voices, get behind this effort, and the president's got a great motivation in that the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia said, "I'm going to put a trillion dollars into the US economy." And China is courting Saudi Arabia so aggressively to move to to buy their oil in Chinese currency
▶ 1:12:55rather than in dollars to move off of the dollar as the world currency, so we've got a lot of We personally have a lot at stake to show Saudi Arabia that we're working at this, and we can get it done.
▶ 1:13:09I I just actually would plead with the two of you to be bipartisan pushing this, not taking away the criticism we have of other things cuz I I the factual basis is there, but saying, "Here's a moment uh I remember when I got together with a congressman from New Jersey, Don Payne, uh and we carried that original Darfur resolution uh and to get that designated as a genocide, first time it had
▶ 1:13:39ever been done while there was a genocide proceeding. It was going on at that time. Uh and he and I got together on that and got it through, and and um Secretary Powell signed on, declared it a genocide, and I think it was helpful in ending that. I I actually think you guys have a pretty interesting role you could play right now of saying, "We disagree on a lot of things.
▶ 1:14:05We really agree with the president hosting these two warring generals and signing the agreement that we know what's what can be done, and doing it now cuz you you do have Everybody knows the numbers on this. We actually have a path. We actually have a path on this one. And I've got more in my testimony, but that's really the point I wanted to make to the two of you.
▶ 1:14:29This This one's actually This one's actually doable and Ambassador Ambassador, thank you so very much for your leadership, your vision, this fact that we are at a inflection point, a crossroads. If we grab it with both hands and and work across the aisle as you suggest. And you know, I at that point when you were talking about Darfur, I was Don Payne's ranking member.
▶ 1:14:55So, it's gone back and forth, but you you really led so so effectively then and now. Uh so, it's a great idea. We need to seize the moment because otherwise, things deteriorate, and we will have a situation where where more people are killed, more women are abused uh and killed, and and the hunger issue just goes even worse than it is today. And again, Ken Isaacs in his testimony, like I said earlier, said from 6 months ago, it's gotten actually worse.
▶ 1:15:24I mean, that's a short period of time uh for this to metastasize the way it has. Uh and I think your idea of hosting or the president hosting the two belligerents and trying to get them to just put down the arms and stop it. Um and so, thank you, uh Sam. Really Mr. Ambassador, for for that suggestion, for your leadership, uh which has been across multiple decades. And and thank you. I'd like to yield to Miss I'm good. Okay.
▶ 1:15:54Uh we will follow up on that, and I we're only rushed a little bit because the vote has been called, but we'll come right back, and I again apologize to our other distinguished witnesses. Uh we will be in recess for uh to about 3:00, um 3:10 or so, and then we'll uh we'll reconvene. But again, Ambassador Ambassador, Thank you. You're You're amazing.
▶ 2:43:47The committee will come to order and again I apologize to our very distinguished witnesses and guests for the delay because of the votes. But we did have a good first session and now we have a tremendous panel to provide insights to the subcommittee. We will begin with Mr. Tony Perkins, the president of the Family Research Council and the former chair of the US Commission on International Religious Mr.
▶ 2:44:13Perkins currently serves as the president of the Family Research Council or FRC whose mission is to serve in the kingdom of God by championing faith, family, and freedom in public policy and the culture with from a biblical worldview. Prior to joining FRC in August 2003, he served in the Louisiana legislature where he was a leading pro-life, pro-family voice.
▶ 2:44:36During his tenure as FRC's president Tony has expanded the organization's reach beyond Washington and has become a major builder of networks of pastors and churches. He also, I would said as I said in my opening comments, did travel to Sudan in 2020, led a religious freedom mission there and did a tremendous job before, during, and after in trying to again bring the blessings of religious liberty
▶ 2:45:07to a place that was so incredibly challenged. We'll then hear from Ken Isaacs, the vice president of programs and government relations at Samaritan's Purse. As vice president of programs and government relations, Ken oversees all international relief projects for Samaritan's Purse.
▶ 2:45:23He has more than 35 years of experience in working in the relief and development communities and his work has taken him to over 150 countries in response to global emergencies resulting from wars, complex crises, famines, and natural disasters.
▶ 2:45:40I would point out that I and members of this subcommittee and our staff often ask Ken for insights about what's happening in a given country, the work of Samaritan's Purse both internationally and domestically and even during the COVID crisis, I remember you had one of your top docs who contracted COVID and made his way back here and actually survived and persevered, but he came and testified and did a tremendous job of coming out of Sierra Leone and Liberia as he did. We'll then hear from Ms.
▶ 2:46:10Nicole Wittersheim. Am I getting that The deputy Washington director at Human Rights Watch with more than 25 years of experience at the intersection of foreign policy, human rights, and national security. She brings a deep expertise in US government processes and extensive field experience to in conflict zones and political crises including Afghanistan, Cote d'Ivoire, South Sudan, and Cambodia.
▶ 2:46:34I would also note as I indicated in my opening comments, she uh spent 7 years in Sudan and that's hard, hard working. Thank you for that that work under very trying and was there when I led a delegation that went to Mukjar and that was just an amazing experience for me and I hope it was good for you. But it did the hope that those people had which has now been dashed under the current crisis. So, Mr.
▶ 2:47:04Perkins, the floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, ranking member Jacobs, members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. As Chairman Smith mentioned I served on the US Commission on International Religious Freedom from 2018 to 2022, served as both vice chair and chair and I currently serve as president of the Family Research Council where we care deeply about protecting and promoting fundamental human rights. Foremost among those is religious freedom.
▶ 2:47:34And Congress, in part because of your leadership, Mr. Chairman, recognized the strategic importance of this principle when Congress enacted the International Religious Freedom Act in 19 1998 and research since then has affirmed what IRFA presupposed that countries that safeguard religious freedom experience greater social stability and in many cases stronger economic performance, conditions that are desperately needed in war-torn
▶ 2:48:04Sudan. In 2020 while serving on US the USCIF Commission, I participated in I think what is the most recent USCIF visit to Sudan. During that trip, I met with the transitional prime minister Hamdok who was I think taking meaningful steps to improve religious freedom and those reforms actually led to Sudan's removal from the US list of countries of particular concern after 20 years.
▶ 2:48:33But sadly, the progress we witnessed has collapsed and ethnic and religious driven violence has again engulfed the Sudan is once more making headlines for horrific violence which is driving an international humanitarian crisis. But this current calamity cannot be understood in isolation. Since gaining independence in 1956, Sudan has been plagued by conflict.
▶ 2:48:59The danger today is assuming that this problem is new rather than addressing the deeply rooted drivers of Sudan does not need a temporary pause in fighting. It needs a durable peace that confronts these underlying causes. While the Rapid Support Forces are rightly condemned for atrocities, both major armed factions bear responsibility for the violence.
▶ 2:49:26The Sudanese Armed Forces have also committed brutal abuses, including killings and beheadings of civilians. Neither faction represents a credible path toward long-term stability or respect for human rights. Many will call recall Omar al-Bashir who ruled from 1989 to 2019.
▶ 2:49:47He created the militias, the predecessors of today's as instruments of jihadist ethnic cleansing against Christians and African At that time, the RSF and the SAF they actually worked together. They only became rivals after the coup that removed al-Bashir. The extremist ideologies and structures that fueled past persecution continue to animate both armed groups today.
▶ 2:50:15Although the RSF and the SAF are fighting each other, they share a common hostility toward Christian communities whom they do not view as fitting their vision for the future of Sudan. Churches have been targeted by both factions. Christians have been denied food, aid, and told, "Quote, unless you leave your Christianity, no food for They and countless Muslims, Africans, and other vulnerable communities are the true victims of this war.
▶ 2:50:45Regional actors are further complicating the conflict. The United Arab Emirates' support for the RSF is well known, but Egypt, Iran, Turkey, and Russia have also sought influence providing drones, weapons, or economic incentives. Sudan's government recently offered Russia a naval base in Port Sudan, an indicator of the geo- political stakes.
▶ 2:51:12Now, the humanitarian crisis is Nearly 12 million people are are internally displaced and more than 4 million have already fled the country. Many are now in Chad, Egypt, and South Nations whose fragile infrastructures cannot sustain this influx.
▶ 2:51:31The Nuba Mountains, long vulnerable to both famine and persecution, urgently require aid that is not obstructed nor manipulated by either the SAF or the Reports indicate that more than 150,000 people have been killed in the conflict over the past few years and the toll continues to rise. The international community, including the United States, cannot remain passive.
▶ 2:51:58Sudan was designated a country of particular concern for religious freedom from 1999 to 2019. After the 2019 transition, meaningful reforms, including the repealing of apostasy laws and approving protections for minorities, led to the removal from the CPC list.
▶ 2:52:16Today, however, Sudan has reverted to conditions that meet the statutory criteria for CPC designation under The safeguards that once existed have collapsed and the extremist structures that long persecuted Christians and other minorities are again driving Given this dramatic backsliding, the United States should reimpose the CPC designation and make clear it will remain in place until verifiable improvements in religious
▶ 2:52:46freedom and human rights occur. So, here are the recommendations. Use the CPC and related IR- IRFA tools to press for human rights and accountability. These designations should inform all US engagement with Sudanese factions and regional actors fueling the conflict. Promote federalism and decentralized governments.
▶ 2:53:11The centralized state dominated by one armed group will only perpetuate Empowering regional governance structures is essential for long-term Ensure direct humanitarian access to the Nuba Mountains and other besieged regions. Aid must reach civilians without interference from the armed the SAF and the RSF. And partner with Sudan's churches. I met with many of these religious leaders when I were there when I was there.
▶ 2:53:40They're very concerned. This is both Muslim, Christian that are concerned about their communities and willing to engage and they have As I close, I just want to offer a reflection drawn from my visit to Sudan. Five years ago, as I stood in Khartoum at the point where the Blue Nile and the White Nile converge to form the great river that flows north through Africa.
▶ 2:54:08Each tributary has its own origin and path, yet they meet and I stood at the single point that shapes everything It really is a picture. Sudan stands at such a confluence today. Its troubled history meets a present moment filled with danger, but also with possibility of renewal. What flows from this convergence will determine not only Sudan's future, but also the stability of the entire region.
▶ 2:54:36My hope is that the United States will use its diplomatic, humanitarian, and economic tools to help ensure that what flows forward is justice, peace, and genuine freedom for all Sudanese people. Mr. Perkins, [clears throat] thank you so very much for your testimony. Mr.
▶ 2:55:05Chairman Smith, ranking member Jacobs, committee members, and fellow guests. Thank you for the opportunity to share my experiences, my thoughts on the crisis in Sudan. I can't remember how many times I've been in this room making testimonies. And I've been working in Sudan since So, what is it that keeps the cycle It's a legitimate question.
▶ 2:55:33Why do we keep coming back in here talking about Darfur? Who remembers save Darfur? It's gone. there was a civil war in the south and and now we have another war between the and SAF. What is that string of commonality? In my opinion, it is Islamic extremism.
▶ 2:56:00It's the same Islamic extremism that we see in other groups that would be uh Hamas, Hezbollah. It it it is in that part of the world and we talk about when I look at Sudan today, I see a new epicenter forming of regional conflict.
▶ 2:56:19And um the countries that are involved today, United States, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Iran, Russia, China, Chad, South Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Kenya, and Libya. And there's probably more that I don't know about.
▶ 2:56:39Um the involvement is this involvement is noted not to assign any blame, but to demonstrate that the scale of geopolitical investment in Sudan's outcome is staggering. Regional actors are coalescing, each with a vested interest. Ending the war cannot be achieved by any one actor, but it's going to require coordinated restraint among many.
▶ 2:57:05Since 1989, Sudanese politics have been dominated by ideological positioning driven by the Muslim Brotherhood. The National Congress Party led by Omar al-Bashir, whom I've met on several took control of the government and the Brotherhood-linked National Congress Party grew from being a political party into the ideological spine of a militarized Islamist state with a violent footprint across the country.
▶ 2:57:34As a perpetrator of this violence, Bashir created the Janjaweed militia in the early 2000s as a tool to control insurgency in Darfur. In 2013, the NCP formalized the Janjaweed by presidential decree into a paramilitary group, the Rapid Support Forces.
▶ 2:57:53In 2019, after months of mass civilian protest demanding an end, this is the people of Sudan raising up, they demanded an end to Islamist authoritarian rule and Sudan's military removed President Omar Bashir and formed a transitional government with civilian leaders.
▶ 2:58:13This transitional council collapsed in October of '21 2021 when military leaders, reportedly led by General Abdel Fattah al-Burhan and supported by General uh Mohamed Dagalo Hemeti, uh staged the coup, detaining Prime Minister Abdallah Hamdok and dissolving the civilian Then in April of 2023, this alliance fractured and Khartoum dissolved in open conflict, which has absolutely
▶ 2:58:43burnt the The current civil war has seen the RSF position itself against the state that created it. It is crucial to keep these historical and ideological roots in mind. Both the SAF and the RSF grew out of the same ideological fabric that is woven deeply into Sudanese power It is not just a fight between two generals.
▶ 2:59:08It is a legacy of entrenched Islamist political networks that now stand at odds with each other. You've heard the numbers many times My version of them are this. An estimated 30.4 million people, roughly 2/3 of the Sudanese population, need humanitarian assistance. 21 million people face acute food insecurity, and 6.5 million are in or near total famine conditions.
▶ 2:59:36Famine has been declared in different locations across Sudan three separate times over the past 2 years, with the latest declaration occurring in This time in El Fasher in Darfur and Kadugli in South Kordofan, with 20 additional locations considered at risk of famine. All of this famine talk sounds very it it's technical. But what it translates into is seeing people dying on the ground because they don't have food.
▶ 3:00:08I know these things because Samaritan's Purse has been involved in two times in 2 years in statistically proving, which is very exhausting process, that famine has existed that it meets the the benchmarks of Most recently in El Fasher, some reports state that as many as 60,000 people have been brutally murdered. I trust that all of you have seen the videos of these because it's horrific.
▶ 3:00:36The country has descended into an intractable war that has no military except for the continued loss of civilian life. The SAF and the RSF must be compelled to accept a ceasefire. I also want to point out there's a lot of talk today, even coming from me and others, about humanitarian needs. But you cannot solve a political problem with a humanitarian solution.
▶ 3:01:04I've learned that in over 35 years of doing The first and overriding priority must be to stop the war. The fastest way to accomplish that is to pressure both sides to accept a In order to actualize it, it will require observation by a credible international body.
▶ 3:01:27I'm actually thinking of a group of EU monitors and not something like the UN peacekeepers that were in Darfur back when you were there. In order uh this body needs the broad political support and the authorities to monitor and to enact enforcement on both sides by the terms of the ceasefire agreement utilizing political and economic The second requirement is humanitarian access.
▶ 3:01:58There's been a lot said about that today, so uh Sudanese civilians are not simply caught in the crossfire. They're being starved by the collapse of all of the economic and social mechanisms in their society. Aid corridors must be open and confidently provide safe passage into Darfur, Kordofan, Khartoum, all without taxation, diversion, or interference. Humanitarian access cannot be optional.
▶ 3:02:24It must be negotiated and guaranteed at the beginning of the Thirdly, a civilian transitional authority must be reconstituted. It cannot be symbolic, and it should be drawn from across Sudan. As Sudanese society is multiethnic, a wider civilian body is required for nationhood. Both primary forces in this war emerged from the same security architecture, and it is important to remember that.
▶ 3:02:53That system fused governance from ideological patronage and armed structures. The people of Sudan want this legacy corrected. That's what they voted for in 2019. Sudan will not move forward if its political identity and security apparatus remain defined by structures born of ideological brutality. Sudan requires a civilian constitutional structure that protects worship while ending the conflation of armed power with religious identity.
▶ 3:03:25The state should not use religion to dominate and exclude. A state in which Sudanese may freely worship is only possible if the political authority is accountable to civilians, but not to the military command and theological claims.
▶ 3:03:40The United States is well served by a clear policy that prevents flirting with the ideological and organizational network from which emerged al-Qaeda, Hamas, and other armed movements whose destabilizing consequences now reach from Gaza to the Red Sea. President Trump and Secretary of State Rubio are to be applauded for recognizing the dangers of the Muslim Brotherhood and moving to declare them as a foreign terrorist organization.
▶ 3:04:11Sudan can be stable and functioning with a civilian constitutional framework where faith is protected and politics are not defined by military force. A stable, functioning Sudan is not a favor to the world, but it is an American interest. A stable Sudan will make America safer, and more prosperous.
▶ 3:04:35I want to thank President Trump and Secretary of State Rubio for paying attention to this matter, and I also want to thank the members of the Quad for their efforts. That includes the United States, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. My last statement is this. This war will not produce a victor. The war must end. Thank you. Thank you so very much again for your testimony and your leadership. Uh Nicole, floor is yours.
▶ 3:05:06Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Jacobs, and your committee colleagues, thank you so much for having this hearing today. Uh I come to you from Human Rights Watch, but I've also had a long time in and I also served in the National Security Council as the Sudan's and Central Africa director under the first Trump administration. Chris Sorry.
▶ 3:05:31Congressman Smith, when I was with you on the helicopter on our way to Mukjar, um I remember you were not feeling very well, and you said we must go and hear from these people. This Mukjar was one of the scenes of one of the most horrific Janjaweed attacks. And they lined the streets, as you remember, and you sat there under a tree for many hours in the Sudan heat and listened to story after story. And uh I'm so glad that you remembered it.
▶ 3:06:01I remember it distinctively. And you've never wavered [snorts] in interest and support for Sudan. And unfortunately, I think we're all here telling you that the violence that we see today is on par, if possibly not than when you visited 20 years ago. Human Rights Watch takes no US government money or no government money at all.
▶ 3:06:27We work in over 90 countries, and we just work to verify and document human rights abuses. We've been documenting many human rights abuses in Sudan. April 2026 will mark 3 years since a brutal war broke out in Sudan, and this conflict has been primarily a war of abuse and atrocities on civilians by both sides, the Rapid Support Forces and the Sudanese Armed Forces.
▶ 3:06:56Multiple Human Rights Watch investigations illustrate Sudan's nationwide human rights crisis. This October in Darfur, the RSF carried out mass atrocities, as we've all talked about today, after an 18-month long siege in the city, which was once a vibrant place that hosted many survivors of the previous campaigns of attacks over the last 20 years by the Janjaweed and then the RSF. El Fasher was the last city controlled by the SAF and their allies in Darfur.
▶ 3:07:24The RSF takeover of the city resulted in massacres that the RSF fighters were filming themselves committing, were bragging about. My organization, Human Rights Watch, took all those videos and verified their They geospacially geospacially recorded them and cited them, and they are accurate. They are true. But it is that that that that exists now in our our minds and on the internet.
▶ 3:07:52They also killed one of the last remaining journalist, Taj Alsir Ahmed Suliman, in El Fasher with his relatives. And I believe we were hearing that it happened right in his house. Human Rights Watch had previously documented similar atrocities by the RSF 2 years earlier. We knew this was going to happen in some sense because we knew what their tactics were and that they've never been held accountable for what they were doing.
▶ 3:08:17In Ardamata, outside of El Geneina, they conducted a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the ethnic Masalit and other non-Arab tribes in 2023. We concluded there that the RSF had carried out crimes against humanity, widespread war crimes, and ethnic cleansing.
▶ 3:08:35And the thing that my colleagues who documented what they did in in Ardamata is that after they had the military victory of taking over that area, they then shot the civilians. It was not during the military campaign. They shot them in the back trying to flee the RSF. And the same with Al Fashir. Once they took over that city, that is when the killing started.
▶ 3:09:01And that tells us this is an ethnic cleansing campaign, and these very likely are acts of genocide. Over 2.5 years, the list of civilian targeting and suffering is unrelenting, and it's spreading across the country.
▶ 3:09:18In South Kordofan, RSF and allied militia committed war crimes against Nuba civilians, and gang rapes, and holding women and in the context of sexual slavery, destroying homes, and displacing tens of thousands of people.
▶ 3:09:33We saw throughout the course of this war in Khartoum, women and girls that faced widespread sexual violence, rape, forced marriage, child marriage, and these have been This has been at the primarily at the hands of the RSF fighters, and survivors are have been denied medical care and justice. These abuses amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity, the title of this hearing today.
▶ 3:09:56The Sudanese Armed Forces have also committed war crimes, most notably indiscriminate airstrikes that have killed civilians and injured scores of others, and destroyed homes and I think it just bears repeating that both of these parties are targeting in this war.
▶ 3:10:19The army itself has transformed areas that are now back under its control into massive detention sites and subjecting civilians to widespread detention and abuse, and often holding the civilians guilty for just having been living in the RSF areas that the SAF conquered. These forces all continue to benefit from widespread impunity.
▶ 3:10:41These forces are known These forces who know that they they can get away with it, they know so well they can get away with it that they're filming themselves with no Right now, civilians in Kordofan region are being attacked and are at imminent risk of mass atrocities to the level in the volume that we we saw in Al Fashir just 2 months ago.
▶ 3:11:05The international community has failed to listen to the warnings and heed the lessons from the first Darfur genocide in 2005 all the way through to the Janjaweed morphing into the RSF and committing violence act after act in Darfur through to the coup in 2021.
▶ 3:11:27We're here to warn you today. We cannot let this level of suffering suffering become normalized. International response to the crisis has been pathetic. Cycles of limited, energized, uncoordinated activities by US government over two administrations have produced failed isolated efforts.
▶ 3:11:49The African Union has been both sidelined from diplomatic efforts like the Jeddah process and the current quad process, which includes US, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and UAE. And then they've also sat and admired the problem in Addis with meeting after meeting at the Peace and Security Commission. The African Union does have a role to protect civilians and deal with this crisis as well as other multilateral Nothing has been done notable to date.
▶ 3:12:18There's been little communication from our current administration to the human rights community on what is the strategy on Sudan. From the outside, it appears that the US and the quad do not have a completely clear strategy for stopping the attacks on civilians and stopping the human rights violations on the civilian Yes, the UN humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher recently visited Sudan and has demanded, like Khan and others, unfettered access for humanitarian
▶ 3:12:49But again, these have all been acts and Acts with words and no actions, excuse me. The United States government is a major actor in the situation and can do much more than it has.
▶ 3:13:01The US Congress has played a monumental role, often led by yourself, Chairman Smith, in the past exposing atrocity crimes, elevating the Sudanese civilian voice and survivors' needs, appropriating life-saving assistance, guiding and overseeing the US foreign policy in the country for Republican and Democratic administrations alike. This country our country has played the most pivotal role in supporting the Sudanese civilians.
▶ 3:13:31But in my 27 years working on Sudan and South Sudan, I have never seen the US government writ large so unengaged on the region. The US is losing its moral credibility in the world and in Sudan. Yes, public condemnation can signal to the perpetrators of these horrible crimes that the US is watching, but social media posts and press releases are simply not enough.
▶ 3:13:56There's so much more you can do to help the Sudanese people survive this terrible time and be safe from violence and work towards civilian a fully civilian led, rights-respecting democratic Sudan, one that they fought for and lost their lives for in 2019.
▶ 3:14:14So, we have 10 points, and I encourage with any of these points and any of these recommendations you've heard today that you pick up either the draft Sudan Peace Act that has out that has been introduced by um uh ranking member Jacobs, or you draft new legislation, but pass some legislation that puts some hard recommendations and helps guide the administration and President Trump on his newfound interest in Sudan to bring We want
▶ 3:14:45you to nominate and we would like the Sorry, we'd like the White House to nominate a congressionally required presidential special envoy for Sudan. It should be a presidential envoy, so it answers both to the White House and it works with you. Secondly, we support the deployment of a multilateral or a multinational or regional force to protect civilians now.
▶ 3:15:09It can start small, deploying where civilians are in need of most urgent protection, like in Kordofan right now But it needs to start as soon as possible. History has shown that a small contingent of well-trained, well-equipped troops can do a lot of good in a very short period of time where civilians are under immediate Congress should communicate to the administration and Ambassador Walls in the in the UN that you support this.
▶ 3:15:35We know standing up new peacekeeping operations is not in favor right now, but this is needed in Sudan, unfortunately. My third recommendation is to call on all countries to comply with the UN Security Council arms embargo. It's been in place for 20 years, and it is readily violated. And it's violated by people that our government says are their allies.
▶ 3:16:01Sorry, countries that people countries that our government says are their allies. We can do a lot to influence those We ask that you try to insist that the administration put the Sudanese civilians first in any and all work that they're doing with the quad or with any seeking any political solution.
▶ 3:16:25This This current war in Sudan, and some arguably could say the past uh explosions of violence over the last 20 have been between actors that we're all familiar with, and there's never been a space carved out for Sudanese civilians to be the third actor and the lead actor in governing their own country and finding peace and finding solutions.
▶ 3:16:47So, I really we really encourage that with the with the hope that President Trump can do something on this crisis that this includes the Sudanese civilians. Our fifth fifth recommendation is to authorize and appropriate robust US funding.
▶ 3:17:05We know that US aid has been closed, and the funding has The US government was the largest owner for the longest period of time in Sudan, and that probably was unbalanced and not necessarily a global burden-sharing approach. But right now, particularly the emergency response rooms that you've heard mentioned already, they need our support. We need more aid. It is not enough.
▶ 3:17:33We have gutted our tools for atrocity prevention, early warning, documentation by getting uh dropping democracy, rights, and labor down to a shell of itself. We've cut the staff and the funding by nearly 80%.
▶ 3:17:48We've gotten rid of the Global Criminal Justice Office in the State Department that would help the State Department and the White House verify and legally define these crimes that we're And that's up to you, Congress, to either reappropriate these funds and make sure that all the tools to respond to these atrocities still exist in our government, or build them anew. But the point is this crisis needs that. Impose targeted sanctions.
▶ 3:18:14It's good to see that we have targeted many of the actors in this crisis, but we also need to use the Global Magnitsky sanctioning tool. It's tougher and it targets corruption and human rights abuses alike. So there's still pressure to put on there. Support the UN fact-finding mission. Congress has appropriated to pay our UN dues. The UN fact-finding mission on Sudan works with our resources.
▶ 3:18:43And these type of special mechanisms in the UN that will document the crimes that you're discussing today and you want to hear from us about. Uh need that need that contribution from a country like the United States. We recall across the administrations that the there's been critical work by the International Criminal Court on Just this October finally one person was found guilty of 27 counts of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
▶ 3:19:13This has been literally the only person in 20 years brought to justice for all that's been done in Sudan and for the people who have survived and perished in that in these wars. We encourage the Congress to support the work of the ICC. It's doing vital work that doesn't exist anyplace else for Continues to work on Ukraine and other crises in the world.
▶ 3:19:39And so we ask that you indicate to the administration that you do support the work of the ICC. I know this is tough right now and it's not particularly But Sudan needs justice and it is only suffered from impunity and we see what we get when we hold nobody accountable.
▶ 3:19:57To conclude when I take Human Rights Watch's investigations and reports to the offices here on the hill over and over again Democrats and Republicans I mean some of our new generation of staffers will say well why should we care about Sudan? And I think that's that's a fair question. The world seems to be on fire right now. But the level of violence and killing demonstrates for us that basic humanity is under attack.
▶ 3:20:28And we are all witnessing it on our phones. And we are becoming numb and it's becoming normalized. To do nothing when we have the leverage as a country like the United States does to stop and lessen the nature of this And in in keep our stature and moral authority that whatever left of it in the world and how we have been sit side by side with the Sudanese for so long. It is a grand test of the US values.
▶ 3:20:58It is a threat on our own security as Ken has said and our credibility in the world. Sudan sits at a crosshold in a very unstable region surrounded by Chad, South Sudan, Ethiopia and the Red History has demonstrated that when mass atrocities happen on this level it does not stick to inside borders.
▶ 3:21:18Congress can play a pivotal role ensuring the US government is clear and coordinated and has measures that prioritize the protection of civilians, justice and humanitarian relief with a concerted engagement and pressure on the parties to the conflict. With this approach led by Congress and in partnership with the White House and President Trump you can break the cycle of mass atrocities and help the Sudanese people begin to recover, be safer and hopefully have a viable chance to govern their own country.
▶ 3:21:47Thank you for hearing from us today. Swedish ship, thank you so much for your testimony, for your extraordinary leadership over the many many years. You know the on the point not to belabor [clears throat] the point but on the point of you know why should we care? First and foremost we're our brothers and sisters' keepers. We should love our neighbor as ourselves and go the extra mile when such horrible atrocities are being committed to stop it.
▶ 3:22:12Uh but there's also and Ken Isaacs in his testimony uh makes this point about you know that we are not unaffected. Uh Osama bin Laden was in in in in Khartoum uh when I met with um the president of Bashir uh he made fun and mocked that the United States were offered to the Clinton administration that we take Osama
▶ 3:22:42bin Laden and I even met with Salva Kiir who was one of his terrible terrible people who was known for his torture and I talked to him cuz I had to talk to him because he said you got to talk to and he was in the next room and and the bottom line was that he was offered we said no under Clinton and he went to Afghanistan he being Osama bin Laden and I had 37 people in one of my larger towns in Middletown killed by 9/11 uh 750 New Jerseyans and all the others
▶ 3:23:13World Trade of course and and right here at the Pentagon right nearby and in All of that could have been stopped if we had just brought this monster called Osama bin Laden. But again and you also pointed out Ken in your statement which I thought was interesting that our embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi were bombed and that was hatched in Khartoum.
▶ 3:23:33I held the hearings with Admiral Crowe sitting right where you are on embassy security and wrote the law the embassy security act uh because our embassies were so at risk and did not have the kind of protection the visuals to ensure that setbacks and all the other thing. But again where did it come from? Americans died and of course people in those two countries from the car bombs that were set off all hatched in Khartoum.
▶ 3:23:59So let's not Americans should say oh why are we caring about we care because we should care but we also care because it doesn't stop there it extends out and you gave Ken and so did you Nicole you know some really good reasons for that. Let me just on the CPC to Mr. Perkins I do think that ought to be done right away so we should we'll make it an all out effort following your lead to the president to do that right away.
▶ 3:24:23You know as you pointed out they had it for 20 years and then things changed and that gives an additional set of things that the president can do vis-a-vis Sudan. On the foreign terrorist organization for for Hemeti's group that ought to be done right away to at least have an additional way of finding out where he's getting his funds and weapons.
▶ 3:24:49We know UAE is is guilty up to their ears with and eyes in providing this. I would hope the president would call the leadership there and say stop it. There needs to be that kind in my opinion I mean Marco Rubio is a tremendous secretary of state but go to that next level and say that's it. Delay is denial. More people will die tomorrow next day next day next day if this isn't done right away.
▶ 3:25:13So my hope is that we will get that high level focus from the president himself to just just just do this. Stop it and you and you provide all the testimony we need you know in this forum and others are doing it elsewhere to make that case.
▶ 3:25:30I did talk to Marco the chairman of the Foreign Ops Mario Diaz-Balart I've been talking to him all the time but I talked to him in between these votes and he said you know they're looking to really you know fund it to the to to a way that is very very significant all these efforts. So that bill has not passed yet but we've just got to do it.
▶ 3:25:53I mean World Food Program I go to their website look at all the losses they have there in terms of underfunding and people die from hunger when they're not fed and the money has to be provided. So UAE we all should shout from the rooftops stop it stop it now. Same goes for the military. We don't have as much impact on what Iran does but we do with Saudi Arabia. So the quad while it's it seems to be it's there it looks good just like some of the things that happened at the at the African Union.
▶ 3:26:24But when do they you know just say hey if this was your family was getting slaughtered and your wife that was being raped what would you do? You wouldn't stop until it was stopped. And that's the kind of sense of urgency that we hope this will bring this hearing and your testimony speaking truth to power. So you did say about them to they the players Ken to to act to enact a ceasefire. I'm not sure how we do compel them. Maybe you want to elaborate on that.
▶ 3:26:54And then and just what happens in the next week or more as people don't get food and as more killing happens. You know we can't get compassion fatigue. Yeah we just can't we we just have to retriple our efforts. And again I think this president has is is sitting in a very very enviable place to say that's it. And UAE that will make I think a huge difference.
▶ 3:27:18I we do have the resolution I've introduced it joined by my good friend and colleague and my colleagues to my right calling for that special envoy. You know have another person as I said in the last panel you know there would have been no uh uh success without Senator Danforth who I thought did an amazing job in the past. So uh I just throw that out that you know we we got to get that. I did not get a sense from the Assistant Secretary that they will do that.
▶ 3:27:48You know we're going to follow up on that um but he thought that Blinken certainly Marco Rubio Marco Rubio's you know drinking from a fire hose here. I mean he's got so many crises that he's trying to manage having that very well positioned person to do it I could help make a difference. But the president needs to pick up the phone and your thoughts and then I'll yield to my A few more comments. Please.
▶ 3:28:19So, in Nuba Mountains, I don't tell everybody this, but I'm getting ready to tell everybody this. Uh we've been running a uh a cross-border operation for 13 years taking about 16,000 tons of food a year into Nuba Mountains and distributing it to um 4 to 600,000 people. There's a lot of other aspects, health care, nutrition that go with that program.
▶ 3:28:45Um I have 400 staff inside of Nuba Uh so, I've got a pretty good network there of to know what's going on. And um uh last year and this is an important uh point.
▶ 3:28:59We entered into a discussion with the uh Sudan Armed Forces and the SPLM-North and they came to a an agreement for a 90-day ceasefire and we air-dropped uh 2,700 tons of food into an area of famine. My point in sharing this is that humanitarian ceasefires can happen and they do respect them. Now, the day after the agreement was over, they went back to war. Like, boom. Right back.
▶ 3:29:29But um we were able to air-drop the food. I had staff on the ground and we oversaw uh the distributions. And the government of Sudan, that is the Sudan Armed Forces I went to uh uh Port Sudan and met with General Burhan and I met with the other generals head of GIS and uh some of their co-workers are in here today. Uh they came and visited with us. It is possible to get agreements.
▶ 3:29:55Uh it's not easy, but it but it's I think in preparation to come and talk to you I spoke with uh former Prime Minister I spoke with Hemeti. I spoke with um uh civil society people. I spoke with Abdul Wahid. I spoke as many people as as I could.
▶ 3:30:18Three senior people told me there's only one person that can fix It's President Trump. And so, I I want to echo back to what um Sam Brownback said. And and I That is that I think that the two of you are in a very unique position to be a catalyst and an encourager.
▶ 3:30:41Uh you know, it's almost like President Trump's in a unique slot window for this conflict where he could get the attention of the leaders and twist their arms, break their legs. I don't know what. You because your question is relevant. How do you get that done? It's easy to conceptualize it. The implementation of it's a different thing. Um but I do feel like that President Trump is the guy that can get that done.
▶ 3:31:08He is the man um for this job right now. That's all I have. Thank you.
▶ 3:31:20I just want to say I've read your 10 points very carefully. I thank you for them. Um and at first it was the special envoy, but the others as well, TSP, the other all things that need to be very very uh embraced. So, I do thank you for that. And I was very sick that day.
▶ 3:31:39You noticed that. Um I had got my yellow fever shot too late and I had a fever. But thank you. You were there and it was very very meaningful and what it just opened up my eyes like like nothing else. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um Ms. Wittersheim, um I want to start with you. Would you agree that the UAE is in violation of the UN arms embargo by providing weapons to the RSF?
▶ 3:32:10So, it's it seems like it's the worst-kept diplomatic secret. Uh when we talk to governments, including our own, uh under the Biden administration um and throughout the Western democracies, diplomats tell us all the time, "We know. We know.
▶ 3:32:31We know what they're doing." My organization continues to try to look into this from an arms perspective uh in what is being found um in in Sudan and in uh in amongst the RSF areas, but access is completely cut off. Uh it's cut off for food, it's cut off for humanitarian assistance.
▶ 3:32:54Uh but it seems like everybody who could stop the UAE, including the UN, who has noted their involvement in their panel of experts reporting knows their involvement. So, it's like this this strange circle of not fully addressing the matter.
▶ 3:33:14And when you are watching mass atrocities and genocides unfold uh the number one thing that you and it's been part of my work uh to study this and look at this. The number one thing you must do is you must cut off the resources for the people who are committing the mass atrocities and that is money that is uh arms and it is people.
▶ 3:33:41So, we were very encouraged to see the sanctions that were announced yesterday by the Trump administration or maybe it was the day before on the Colombian companies that are sending mercenaries. This is a start. It's a good start. But you have to cut off all the resources in order to stop the killing. It It actually is is that simple. Uh it's simple to say and simple to see the through line. It's not simple to do, Thank you.
▶ 3:34:06And what do you think it would take for the UAE to stop arming the RSF or at the very least use its significant leverage to get the RSF to stop their I mean, the UAE needs to hear from its allies. We are in the United States is in a defense pact with UAE. If Sudan matters to us we need to use our relationship with that country to get it to stop.
▶ 3:34:36Um and so, you know, I I do agree this is a moment in time and an opportunity for this president and this White House to exert the full amount of its pressure and use that relationship. These relationships and these allied ships around the world only matter when they're do your allies are doing something you don't like. You have to use those relationships. Thank you.
▶ 3:34:59And so, I guess just to be a little bit more specific, do you think it's appropriate for the US to be selling weapons to the UAE right now while they continue to support the RSF? My organization isn't gotten to a definitive decision on that.
▶ 3:35:15Uh there is speculation that while US weapons have not been found in Darfur that weapon sales to UAE is allowing them to displace their old stocks and send those weapons to Darfur. So, I think we have to look very carefully at this uh in in order to make sure that no US weapons wind up hurting people in Sudan. Thank you. Um and now I I'd like to turn to the ICC.
▶ 3:35:46Um earlier this year, Eric Iversen, a decorated US Army veteran who is currently the lead prosecutor in the court's uh Darfur cases, filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration arguing that the administration's sanctions against ICC Prosecutor Karim Khan prevented him from investigating and prosecuting mass atrocities in Darfur. Uh in response, the Treasury Department granted him a license for his work with the ICC and Mr. Iversen withdrew his suit.
▶ 3:36:13But as you know, this license is specific to him and doesn't cover other US citizens who work uh for the ICC Prosecutor's Office or contractors. Um We've seen reports that sanctions on Khan have substantially impeded ICC investigations. This is despite successive US presidential administrations since the George W. Bush administration, including the Trump administration, expressing support for accountability for atrocity crimes in Darfur.
▶ 3:36:40Um why are the ICC investigations into atrocity crimes in Darfur uh important? And could you tell us sort of your assessment of if alternatives exist to the ICC? [cough] So, an organization like mine that documents, legally defines and documents these crimes uh really relies on institutions like the International Criminal Court to bring justice to the victims. the ICC currently has 11 active cases on Sudan.
▶ 3:37:11It's mandate was established in 2005 and it extends to now. There is no other entity. Their courts are not functioning inside Sudan. The African Union doesn't offer a viable alternative to the ICC for the crimes being committed in Sudan. There is no other entity that is going to chance to bring any justice to the grave and mass crimes in Sudan.
▶ 3:37:38the other thing to note about the ICC is even if there are carve-outs and things to allow for work in places and on on cases that maybe the United States is is fine with it these sanctions represent a chilling effect for anybody to work with the ICC.
▶ 3:38:00Banks, service providers, logistics providers, all these things that you just need to have an entity function, it really does chill its work on Ukraine, on Russia, on Sudan, on Central African Republic, and on Gaza. It's true. So, while there's no other entity around, I think what we the most important thing is that we see 20 years of impunity lead to more atrocities. It's that simple.
▶ 3:38:30And do you believe that the specific license for Mr. Isaac fixes the the chilling problem and other impediments that these sanctions have on the Darfur investigation? Um I'd like to take that question back to our our international justice team because I don't know the ins and outs of what that license uh covers, I'm sorry to say. No, that's fine. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, and young lady yields back.
▶ 3:38:56And so now I have uh the opportunity to recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions. So, I'm going to start off with you, Mr. Isaacs, and and uh you know, you've worked in over 150 countries to respond to war. You've responded to famine. You've You've been in some very complex crises.
▶ 3:39:17So, uh you're you're overseeing US humanitarian relief in Darfur, a critical region in Sudan that has currently used and underscored as rife for famine and heavily impacted by the civil war, as as you've been talking about. So, how would you characterize the conflict's direct effect on Sudan's food security?
▶ 3:39:46I would characterize it as in the sewer. Uh it it is a it's a horrible situation. We're talking about Kordofan. So, Kordofan is a state sort of in the southern central part. And uh we've worked there I've been uh 25 or 28 years there. Over the last year, almost 3 million people have come into that area. Why have they come into that area? It's a legitimate question.
▶ 3:40:16They've come there because they're voting with their feet. They feel security. They're not coming there because there's food. That's an issue. And um the number one driver in famine is man-made problems. It's not nat- nature. It's not climate change. It's not crop failure. It's [cough] It's man-made problems. And as has has been said here today several times, this is a man-made issue.
▶ 3:40:45People are running from their land. They can't farm. Uh business has been uh curtailed. Uh logistic supply is cut off. And everybody that is surviving is focused on survival. They're not focused on and they can't be focused on producing food. The uh there has been and there are uh deliberate interruptions in humanitarian supplies.
▶ 3:41:13Congressman, I'm a Christian working as a humanitarian. I'm not a politician. It troubles me today and it's troubled me for years for people to pick the low-hanging fruit of getting food in. I know that food needs to get in, but it is not going to solve the political problems that exist in the country.
▶ 3:41:38And if those political problems are not addressed, all you're going to have is a season of feeding at at a vast cost. And in this cycle, that that's why I said I've been in this room so many times giving these testimonies in other rooms over in the Senate and all around on the hill, nothing has fundamentally changed in the structure and the governance of Sudan to the point that it can feed itself. Sudan is bigger than the state of Texas.
▶ 3:42:09It's got the Nile River that runs through it. It's got uh 10 months a year of beautiful sunshine, water, fertile soil. Something's wrong. Something's wrong. I mean, they've got all of the raw elements there in addition to gold and oil and whatever other minerals they've got. It should be a wealthy country, and it's not. It has to do with the governance. So, I'm I'm very concerned about protection of children.
▶ 3:42:39I'm very concerned about education. I'm very concerned about um gender-based violence. The government the governance has to change, or it won't go away. Thank you. You know, um I fought in Vietnam, and so I kind of uh this the sacrifices people make because of governance, as you talk about.
▶ 3:43:08And it's really sad to see young that are malnourished, and we we're not and they got the raw materials. Uh my background is in agriculture, and so my gosh, if I've got land and I've got some way to fertilize it and I got some seed, I can do something with it. So, it's really sad to see a a government that's that kind of people and not taking advantage of the raw materials they have.
▶ 3:43:35And so, you know, when when some people say uh ought to stop, I think that's true. But somebody needs to kick their can. But anyway, uh I can emphasize with with with your comments. So, I got about 12 seconds, and so um I really appreciate really appreciate your comments. And so, with that, I guess we'll go to Washington with Ms.
▶ 3:44:05I'm not done yet. So, I'll take ranking member's prerogative and ask a few more questions. Uh if that's all right. Um okay. So, in uh in my opening remarks, I talked about uh Sudan's community-led emergency response rooms or ERR's, um and how they've been essential to the survival of the Sudanese people, um providing basic meals for civilians throughout the country through community-run kitchens that were previously supported in part by USAID funding.
▶ 3:44:33The Trump administration's aid cuts forced nearly 80% of ERR activities to stop and affected the operations of over 1,460 community kitchens. Uh now the United States no longer provides any direct funding to the ERR's. Uh Ms. Whitershine, can you explain to the committee why the ERR's are so critical to providing life-saving aid to the Sudanese communities and why they are more efficient and effective at delivering aid? Thanks.
▶ 3:45:01Thank you for the question, and I would note that we have some members of the ERR's and their representatives here to to hear the hearing today. And uh Thank you all for everything that that you do. Um and some of them also have also lost relatives in this recent round of fighting in in El Fasher. Uh the ERR's Well, let me just say let me just start a little bit in putting my former USAID hat on.
▶ 3:45:28Um when I worked in Sudan and other places with USAID, it was always clear, and I think that USAID tried over the years to do this, is to really focus resources towards And the ERR's represented the epitome and almost a perfect example of that type of localization, where if you got them not a a ton of money, they were so much more efficient in and they lived there.
▶ 3:45:55They lived in these uh villages, and they served these uh emergency response rooms and soup kitchens right there in the community that they were And they knew the people, and they knew how to cross lines. They were actually peacemakers in trying to get their humanitarian assistance and keep their kitchen serving people right there among the belligerents and the the uh parties to this conflict. And so, it was a cheaper way to get ac- uh food in.
▶ 3:46:22It was a way to access places where international and UN entities could not get to or had fled from. And it was truly keeping people alive. Uh so, you know, the fact that that has gone away, particularly from the US government, is just really crushing and heartbreaking. Uh because as USAID was folded and and and and dissolved, one of the things that I heard over and over again was that it wasn't efficient or it was it was too expensive.
▶ 3:46:53And yet, we have this mechanism that already was homegrown and would be there after hopefully after uh it was there before during the democratic revolution on the streets of Khartoum. That's where it was founded from. And it has continued to operate uh and it's already there and established. And we need to get some more resources than currently are going now back to them.
▶ 3:47:16The other thing that they do is that even if they're getting a a trickle of food aid from the United States or from the World Food Program, they're also doing so much more than just food aid. And when you have a crisis of this magnitude, people have lost everything. They've lost their farming tools. Women don't have access to hygiene products, to basic neonatal care, all of these things that an emergency brings in addition to food and famine.
▶ 3:47:44So, I would just highly recommend that this body, Congress in writ large that has the power of the person, our government, really try to work to get funding reestablished to the emergency response Thank you. I I couldn't agree more. Um Mr. Isaacs, a question for you. Prior to Samaritan's Purse, you worked at USAID, where you were in charge of the office of foreign disaster assistance.
▶ 3:48:10Um, you recently published a book uh titled Running to the Fire, Helping in Jesus' Name, um that details all of your humanitarian work in disaster context. In Sudan, the United States has been the top donor for years, but the foreign aid cuts by this administration have left many Sudanese communities abandoned. Uh for example, Hanan, an internally displaced person, now no longer can afford her medication or food.
▶ 3:48:35She tried to compensate for lost food by relying on meals from a nearby community kitchen, but then the US funding cuts forced that kitchen to close, and as of this month, Sudan's 2025 humanitarian appeal of $4.16 billion is only 35% funded. Um what impacts have you seen on the US foreign aid cuts and USAID's dismantlement, and have you seen it get easier or harder to deliver as much food and other assistance in Sudan as before?
▶ 3:49:07Well, since you mentioned my book, if you wanted to go to Amazon and do a review, it'd be greatly appreciated. Tell me your question again. I want to hear it one more time. Sure.
▶ 3:49:21Um what impacts have you seen from the US foreign aid cuts and USAID's dismantlement, and have you seen it get easier or harder to deliver as much food and other assistance into Sudan as I don't think that the uh the restriction of the money has uh improved nor hardened the access issues. The access issues are stimulated from political military problems. But uh there's no I mean, if you've got less money, you can do less things.
▶ 3:49:51That's, you know, pretty straightforward mathematics. But I will say this, on the uh and it's been an encouraging sign for us, on the Nuba Mountains, the State Department is continuing to engage with us in the cross-border feeding operation, and we're very encouraged by that. Um so, there is uh some reorganization going on and what what all the new shops are going to be set up and how that structure is going to work.
▶ 3:50:20And I think there's also a growing awareness that the things that existed existed for reason, and then many of them need to be brought back. Um so, we're talking about the ERR and uh we have a you know, an operation in Port Sudan, we're active in Khartoum, or what's left of Khartoum, and we coordinate very closely. I'm Samaritan's Purse is doing that, and we're coordinating very closely with those community organizations, and they do prove to be effective.
▶ 3:50:50Um other than that, I I can't speak to all of the issues and besides the fact that if you have money, you can buy more resources. But I I do um Congresswoman, just want to emphasize how important I believe it is to recognize that you can't solve political problem with a humanitarian response. Yeah. Well, thank you for that, and I just want to emphasize I think we need to be funding the ERR's and the humanitarian response much more.
▶ 3:51:19I also think we need a real diplomatic approach that holds the regional actors accountable for their role in perpetuating um this conflict, um and uh in the meantime, we need to do everything we can to relieve the suffering. So, with that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, uh for convening this hearing, for all of your commitment on this issue. I also want to thank the ranking member. Um it's been an issue of tremendous importance to me. I have been working with the Sudanese American diaspora.
▶ 3:51:48In 2020, I was on the congressional delegation that went at a moment of great hope, I think, when we thought that we were potentially going to have a real democratic governance in Sudan, and after the courageous civil society effort to overthrow the dictator, um and, you know, it's very difficult to be here now, and um I thank you all for your work. Uh You know, I watched those Human Rights Watch videos.
▶ 3:52:16They're incredibly difficult, painful to watch, um because this is the site of the worst humanitarian crisis we've seen, and the urgency is not there. The the energy is not there that needs to be there, and we're not doing everything [snorts] that we could be doing, and this administration uh and the last administration have not done what we need to be doing with over 30 million people needing humanitarian assistance. And I agree with you, Mr.
▶ 3:52:44Isaacs, that there isn't a uh you you can't solve a political problem with a humanitarian solution, but you also can't ignore the humanitarian crisis that's happening. We really need both. Um and so, you know, and I do want to make sure that some of the proposals that are being floated to designate the RSF as a foreign terrorist organization do not in any way impede the humanitarian efforts that we also need to make sure are continuing so that more people don't die.
▶ 3:53:13And I know that is a concern of humanitarian organizations that we make sure that if those proposals move forward, that we have a very clear carve-out for humanitarian assistance to make to continue to to make it through. You know, I've been collecting stories from impacted civilians, both Sudanese Americans here, but also the diaspora around the world and in Sudan, um and leading an effort to have members of Congress tell those stories. Um so that they themselves see.
▶ 3:53:40I know it took me a couple of times recording to get through some of them. They're so incredibly painful. Um I want to speak to the humanitarian landscape. 375,000 people on the brink of starvation. Um and at this critical moment, both the SAF SAF and RSF, as you all have said, engaged in the willful obstruction of humanitarian assistance, using starvation as a weapon of war. And so, Ms.
▶ 3:54:04Twittersheim, could you speak about why armed actors are specifically targeting humanitarian workers in this conflict, and the leverage points that you think that we this administration, this Congress can use to secure increased access for those humanitarian Well, I'm going to uh call on Ken to also respond to because of his expertise in the humanitarian field.
▶ 3:54:28Um I would say over the course of working and learning and trying to respond or uh help with the US policy on Sudan for so many years, food has often, and for generations, been a weapon in in Sudan. Uh the Bashir government used it against South They cut off airdrops, and they manipulated food aid.
▶ 3:54:54Uh there's probably not one uh militia or armed actor in Sudan, and at the time South Sudan, when it was still one country, that hasn't learned how to use food as a weapon against their people. Um so, this is a common, tried-and-true tactic uh to and and to also cut off humanitarian assistance.
▶ 3:55:14Um and frankly, um to to Ken's point and and to what I think is getting recognized clearly by by the committee, that humanitarian assistance isn't a political solution, but it does kind of keep the international community fixated on the humanitarian and not doing the hard work on the political solution. So, you know, it's it's it's people really We really do need both, as you said.
▶ 3:55:38Um I think that uh these these armed actors are doing this now because they've always done it, and this is a way in which they get control, and they get the population to bend to their will. They get them to move. This is the RSF has been very fixated on ethnic And if you starve people, if they can, they will walk away, and they will walk into Chad. I want to get a question in about um the UAE, because this is also really, really important.
▶ 3:56:06So, I'm sorry I'm not giving you a chance to respond on that one, but um you know, the UAE, and the chairman said it, we should be shouting this from from every rooftop, is actively supporting the RSF, and despite this clear involvement, this administration blew through the committee's hold on a $1.4 billion sale of helicopters and F-16 fighter jet parts to the UAE. And we're continuing to announce new arms sales to the UAE.
▶ 3:56:34So, what signal does it send to the UAE when the United States continues to provide them with military equipment, despite the well-documented record of providing weapons to the RSF? And is it possible that American weapons sold to the UAE could end up being used by the RSF in So, not an expert on arms, but I would say it is highly possible that the fluidity of arms flows into Sudan can come from
▶ 3:57:04anywhere. And already, Canada is seeing Canadian sales ending up in Sudan, according to media reports. I would just want to say that the committee is right to put these holds and to use all the tools that you have.
▶ 3:57:20I think we have to get um the tools that are already in place, like the Leahy laws, to scrutinize our sales to all of the actors involved in Sudan and supporting these actors to commit atrocities against their uh people, and there's and the civilians Um and you know, I fear it might be a matter of time. I mean, I just don't Uh but we would not want to see American weapons sold to them and wind up in the hands of these actors as they're crimes against humanity.
▶ 3:57:50So, we have some tools in place, your ability to put those holds, to scrutinize those sales, and also to ensure that our government follows the Leahy laws that are on the books. Um so, I just, you know, continue to plead with all members to do to use the tools at your disposal.
▶ 3:58:05Thank you, and I hope we can do that, Mr. Chairman. I'll be back. Thank you so very much, Ms. Jaypal. Let me just ask Mr. Perkins, if you would, your fourth recommendation was to partner with Sudan's churches. And we know that the you know, we're seeing in a lot of places where jihadism is is rampant. Uh, where non-radical Muslims are targeted for killing. We see that in Nigeria. But the Christians are targeted simply because they are Christians.
▶ 3:58:33How well are the churches positioned from a safety point of view? And maybe Mr. Isaac, well, any of you might want to speak to that. Uh, to I mean, if they get humanitarian aid, those churches will provide it to everybody and anybody, believing that's right out of the gospel. And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that because, um, you know, that's a that's a noble deed to do, but when humanitarian workers, um, even those coming in on convoys are hurt, killed, um, Yes, Mr. Chairman, thank you.
▶ 3:59:02The there's a vibrant church community there. Uh, and people naturally look often to the church community for for help. Right. Obviously, they don't have a lot of resources, but they need to be a part and I and I want to just add to what's been discussed here. There is a humanitarian crisis that must be addressed, but we've been here before. And we keep coming back. And we'll keep coming back until we address the underlying issues.
▶ 3:59:28And that's where in part the faith community comes in, but also the educational system. When I was there in 2020, I met with the educational minister. We looked at the educational curriculum, which creates the division. That We talk about the Islamic jihadism that was filled in the educational material, dividing the country even more, creating the the religious divide and hostility.
▶ 3:59:54We were hopeful, and in fact, the educational ministry was making steps um, to change the educational material. This may come as a surprise, but the UAE was the source of that material because the UAE is probably one of the the best actors that we can work with in that region. They're very reasonable uh, on many things. Their education material much better than what we've seen coming out of Saudi Arabia historically.
▶ 4:00:23So, we've got to look at this holistically. Yes, let's let's fight the fire. Let's put the fire out. But let's make sure as we rebuild, we're rebuilding on a solid foundation. That includes the civil society and education, but that must include the religious community being a part of developing a way forward. I do think they can be a part of the current situation, but they have to be a part of the civil-led government going forward.
▶ 4:00:53Before we close, anyone else want to make any final comments? Uh, and you know, we uh, Nicole, your point about food as a weapon, I remember when Mengistu in Ethiopia was using food as a weapon, and many of us raised our voices from highest I went to the UN, met with their ambassador, and he pretty much told me go jump in the lake. Um, and um, and they used it effectively. I mean, I mean, it was just uh, it was horrible. Uh, so, and now we're seeing a repeat of that as well. But anything else before we close?
▶ 4:01:22I I would just to that point of the food being used as a weapon, it's because of the underlying instability that remains in that country. And until you we deal with the underlying instability, food will always be used as a weapon because it'll be in short supply. Well, thank you so very, very much for your testimony and for your patience with the intervening votes. I do apologize for that, but I thank you. We will take what you have conveyed to the committee, and both Ms.
▶ 4:01:48Jacobs and I will work very hard to try to do more uh, with the executive branch and and to do what we can do on our in terms of resourcing as well uh, on our side. So, thank you. Um, I just want to again thank the witnesses. Uh, the members of the subcommittee have some additional questions for the witnesses, and we will ask you [clears throat] to respond to these in writing.
▶ 4:02:11Pursuant to the committee rules, all members may have five days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record subject to the length limitation. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned. Thank you. Good to see you.