▶ 0:07:43Federal lands will come to order. I'm pinch hitting for, uh, chairman tiffany this morning. And without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time. Subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on explore america 250, celebrating one year of the expanding public lands outdoor recreation experiences act under committee rule four f if any oral opening statements at hearings are limited.
▶ 0:08:07Uh under committee rule four if any oral opening statements at hearings are limited to the chairman and the ranking minority member. I therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members opening statements be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted in accordance with committee rule three. O without objection, so ordered. I'll now recognize myself for an opening statement. And, uh, good morning everyone. This month marks an important milestone.
▶ 0:08:35One year ago, the expanding public lands outdoor recreation experiences act, or the explore act, was signed into law. It was a first of its kind, bipartisan, comprehensive outdoor recreation package. Today, we're here to celebrate everything explore has already accomplished and look forward to the future as our federal land managers continue implementing implementing this landmark law. During our nation's 250th anniversary year.
▶ 0:09:02The goal is simple make it easier for americans to access the outdoors. Strengthening the $1.2 trillion outdoor recreation economy and ensure these opportunities remain long after we celebrate america's 250th anniversary this year, I'd like to commend president trump and secretaries burgum and rollins for their steadfast commitment to this goal and for their leadership in ensuring the aggressive implementation of explore over the past year.
▶ 0:09:28While there are many metrics of success for explore after its first year of passage, I think the single most important measure is how many americans are able to access and enjoy our public lands and the abundant recreation opportunities those lands afford. In my home state of arkansas, explore has already been a success by this standard. In the natural state, places like the national forest and hot springs national park are premier world class destinations for those who love to mountain bike, rock climb, hunt, fish and more.
▶ 0:09:56And for families in my district and beyond, these are some of the last truly affordable destinations for family vacations. Because of the explore act, arkansans will be able to continue rock climbing and wilderness areas without restriction. Bike on long distance biking trails, access better information about motorized recreation opportunities, and camp overnight in the national forest. These memories are created in these places and that will be further enhanced by the explore act.
▶ 0:10:25Those memories will last for generations. Explore as a reminder of what congress can do when we come together in a bipartisan basis and work with each other across the aisle. In the early successes of this law, are reminder of why our public lands policy should always be rooted in the following principles I promoted throughout my chairmanship of the natural resources committee. Access, conservation, innovation and transparency.
▶ 0:10:52Explore created transformational access opportunities for millions of veterans, military service members, gold star families, people with disabilities, and youth. For example, since explorers passage, the administration has handed out more than 150,000 free passes to fourth graders, created dedicated positions to connect active duty military members with the outdoors, and broke ground on projects that will improve accessibility across the nation.
▶ 0:11:17On conservation, explorers help support some of our nation's greatest conservationists, our sportsmen and women. Already, we're seeing the positive effects of explorer across the country for our nation's hunters, anglers and shooting sports enthusiasts. In utah, the blm stopped the planned closure of a public target shooting range, maintaining affordable access for families to help train the next generation of hunters, all due to the passage of the explorer act in idaho.
▶ 0:11:42Explores fixes to good neighbor authority, have allowed tribes to fully engage and cross boundary forest management, which is a long overdue reform explorer is also promoting innovation by finally bringing our national parks into the 21st century. Since passage, doi has fully implemented the digitization of recreation passes, and in just a few short months, more than 275,000 people have downloaded these digital passes onto their phones.
▶ 0:12:09With further inflammation of the technology and data provisions of explorer, particularly around tracking visitation patterns, we can solve problems like overcrowding and ensure every american who visits our public lands has an experience that exceeds their expectations. Finally, explorer has sparked new transparency by streamlining the permitting process for guides and outfitters.
▶ 0:12:31These small businesses are the economic backbone of gateway communities, and they rely on clear rules and reasonable permitting timelines by modernizing, permitting and reducing fees for these businesses, explorer ensures that red tape won't stand in the way of recreation as we prepare for our national. As we prepare our national parks and public lands for the next 250 years of outdoor recreation opportunities, explore will be just one piece of the puzzle.
▶ 0:12:59I'm thankful to both doi and usda for highlighting the importance of reauthorizing one of president trump's signature accomplishments from his first term, the great american outdoors act, in their written statements. Before I yield back, I'd like to thank each of our witnesses for being here with us to celebrate this monumental milestone. I'd especially like to recognize the outside groups who will be joining us on panel two. Without your tremendous and sustained advocacy of each of your organizations, we would not be having this hearing today.
▶ 0:13:29This is especially true of jess turner, the president of outdoor recreation roundtable, who was a true champion of this legislation back in back before it was even called explorer. The work was not easy, but it was well worth it. With that, I yield back and I now recognize ranking member uh, huffman for an opening statement. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and good morning, everyone.
▶ 0:13:51Um, chairman westerman, uh, the explorer act was a good bipartisan win for our nation's public lands and waters and the millions of americans who hike and fish and hunt and climb and camp on them. Uh, we did a good thing a year ago.
▶ 0:14:08Uh, but I am troubled, uh, when we gather here this morning in a hearing that feels an awful lot like we're just pretending everything's fine, that everything's normal, everything's great, and it's not, uh, we need a serious reality check if we're going to talk about what the past year has meant for these values that we came together to celebrate, uh, with that law a year ago, the past year of the trump wrecking ball has taken a
▶ 0:14:38Terrible toll in the public agencies who are responsible for managing our public lands, upending and undermining the accomplishment of what we did with the explorer act a year ago. And I have to say, I am concerned because the republican majority just seems incapable of ever criticizing or reining in or even asking serious questions about the mad man in the white house right now.
▶ 0:15:02And if we're real, if we're honest about what's going on, we have a madman in the white house who is running roughshod, who is running the biggest, most corrupt criminal grift in american history out of the white house. And you folks want to whistle right past the graveyard of democracy and our public lands and all of these values. We take an oath to the constitution. And it seems that all of you, um, took an oath to donald trump.
▶ 0:15:28And so you want to put his name on, uh, coins and, uh, buildings and park passes. You want to penalize people who cover up this shrine to donald trump, that our park passes have been turned into. Uh. This is shameful. This is a disgrace. I would love to have a serious conversation about public lands, about recreation, about other things where we could do good work together but pretend everything's just fine right now in the face of this.
▶ 0:15:57The mad man right now is in europe, driving our friends into the arms of our adversaries. He's doing immeasurable damage to our credibility on the world stage, and you guys are just fine with it. What the hell is wrong here? What the hell is wrong?
▶ 0:16:15I'm not going to sit here and pretend everything is just fine for our public lands, for the agencies we depend on, for our democracy, for our credibility, for truth and justice and what's left of integrity. That's a disgrace. I'm not doing any justice to this committee or to the explorer act or anything else, to sit here and pretend everything is just fine and pat ourselves on the back for what we did a year ago. This is wrong. This is not normal and I'm not going to normalize it, I yield back.
▶ 0:16:46>> gentleman yields back. We'll now move on to our first panel. Uh, let me remind our witnesses that under committee rules, you must limit your statements to five minutes, but your entire statement will appear in the hearing record. To begin your testimony, please press the on button on the microphone. When the timing lights. When using timing lights, uh. And you begin, the lot will turn green. At the end of five minutes, the light will turn red. And I will ask you to please complete your statement. First, I would like to introduce Mr.
▶ 0:17:13Thomas hanlon, assistant director for national conservation lands and community partnerships at the bureau of land management. Mr. hanlon, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. Chairman. Westerman, ranking member huffman and members of the subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to testify on the department of the interior's progress implementing the explore act. My name is tom hainline, and I'm the assistant director for the bureau of land management, overseeing the agency's recreation program.
▶ 0:17:44However, I'm currently acting as the blm's utah state director. I've had the pleasure of working for the agency for nearly 20 of my 25 years of federal service. The department of the interior, excuse me, manages approximately 480 million acres of federal lands, providing exceptional recreational opportunities and experiences that support 5 million jobs across the country. A $1.2 trillion economic output and 2.3% of the us gross domestic product.
▶ 0:18:11Nearly all of the blm's 245 million acres are available for recreation, with 75 million recreational visits occurring last year. Rising demand for outdoor recreation reflects americans deep connection to their public lands and underscores their need for greater access. The explore act represents a landmark, bipartisan commitment to expand outdoor recreation on public lands and waters, support rural economies and communities, and enhance the american quality of life.
▶ 0:18:39The department commends the work of chairman westerman, former ranking member grijalva, and others on this bipartisan legislation. The act aligns with the department's responsibilities to showcase public lands and deliver greater access to world class recreational experiences.
▶ 0:18:55As such, secretary burgum issued secretary's order 3435 implementation of the explore act to establish the department's framework for implementing and maximizing the impact of the act, stakeholder engagement and interagency coordination are at the heart of the explore act. The department is deepening our engagement with gateway communities, tribes, and state and local governments to ensure our actions reflect the needs and values of the american people.
▶ 0:19:23The department is also strengthening coordination with the private sector to support data collection, transparency and technological upgrades, as well as strengthening interagency coordination by leveraging the act's codification of the federal interagency council on outdoor recreation to ensure robust and sustained coordination across federal agencies. In accordance with title one of the act, the department is conducting recreation resource inventories, updating climbing guidance, and streamlining filming permits so that our federal lands can meet the needs of today's visitors.
▶ 0:19:55The blm has taken steps to expand access to shooting ranges, including completing a nationwide inventory of existing ranges and coordinating with state partners to identify needs and opportunities for new or improved facilities. This work will ensure that recreational shooting is supported across blm managed lands.
▶ 0:20:11Title two of the act addresses improvements to public access excuse me, including enhancing accessibility for people with disabilities and fostering engagement with military service members, veterans and youth visitors. Agencies within the department are identifying locations for new accessible trails and other accessible recreation opportunities.
▶ 0:20:32The department is also working to increase recreational visits to federal lands and waters by members of the armed forces, veterans, and gold star families. Efforts to fulfill this important direction include working closely with federal partners to develop an interagency implementation strategy. We're modernizing our permitting systems, making it easier for visitors to obtain entrance passes and streamlining processes for obtaining permits as provided for in title three of the act.
▶ 0:21:00This includes making the america the beautiful passes available in a fully digital format. Additionally, blm is revising guidance to increase permit flexibility, improve permit administration, and engage in efforts that will make it easier for outfitters and the public to recreate on federal lands and waters, while ensuring compliance and environmental stewardship from users.
▶ 0:21:20The department is committed to fulfilling the vision of the explore act by strengthening relationships, expanding access, modernizing recreation management, and ensuring that all americans can enjoy the benefits of our nation's public lands and waters. We appreciate the subcommittee's leadership and oversight, and we look forward to continued collaboration as we implement this historic legislation. Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify. I'm happy to answer any questions. >> thank you for your testimony, Mr. hanlon. I will now recognize Mr.
▶ 0:21:50Gordy bloom, acting associate deputy chief for the eastern region at the us forest service. Mr. bloom, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. Chairman westerman, ranking member huffman and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I want to express my condolences on the passing of chairman lamalfa. He cared deeply about our forests and his leadership will be missed.
▶ 0:22:15I am incredibly grateful to congress for the passage of the explore act, and for the opportunity to discuss forest service progress. My name is gordy bloom. I have 35 years of federal service, 26 of those with the forest service. I am also an army veteran. I want to start by stating how proud I am of the work our employees have done this past year. The explorer act directed us to create outdoor opportunities for all americans. I firmly believe that recreation is the economic lifeblood for many small towns across rural america.
▶ 0:22:44The explorer act is helping the forest service grow rural prosperity and improve overall quality of life. Recreation boosts the economic, physical and spiritual well-being of americans, and americans have returned to their public lands in remarkable numbers. National forests now receive more than 160 million visits annually. Those visits support more than 167,000 jobs, contribute over $16 billion to our nation's economy.
▶ 0:23:10The forest service manages an enormous portfolio over 372,000 miles of roads, 163,000 miles of trails, 30,000 recreation sites, and thousands of bridges, dams and buildings. Maintaining and improving this infrastructure is essential to keeping public lands open, safe and accessible. The great american outdoors act, or gao, has been a cornerstone since 2020.
▶ 0:23:37Gao is legacy restoration fund has allowed us to complete 477 infrastructure projects, addressing more than $240 million in deferred maintenance. Nearly 200 of those projects improved our transportation system. Roads and bridges that support recreation, emergency response and many day to day functions of rural communities. Another 750 are underway and, once completed, will reduce our maintenance backlog by more than $1 billion.
▶ 0:24:05Reauthorizing gao would allow us to keep this momentum moving forward. The act has expanded recreation opportunities and strengthened partnerships. I'll share just a couple of examples. In coordination with interior, we've advanced long distance biking opportunities, identifying 16 proposed routes over 80 miles in length. We've made significant progress on target shooting access. We currently have 122 operational ranges.
▶ 0:24:34Another 74 have forest plan alignment. This will guide efforts to develop additional ranges into the future. And at the albert pike recreation area in arkansas, we've restored day use access and identified suitable locations for overnight camping outside the floodplain. We've also completed a nationwide inventory of accessible trails and recreation opportunities. This work is informing investments in trail upgrades, campground improvements, and water access.
▶ 0:25:00The explore act also strengthens our commitment to veterans. Through corps, we are developing a national strategy to expand recreation opportunities and employment pathways for veterans. Spending time outdoors has proven to help with difficult post-military transitions, and one of the most visible successes of the act is the digitization of the america the beautiful pass. Since its launch in november, more than 275,000 digital passes have been issued.
▶ 0:25:28We're also modernizing our recreation permitting system after extensive engagement with guides, outfitters and other stakeholders, we will begin phased implementation this spring. Finally, the expansion of the good neighbor authority has proven transformative in the wake of hurricane helene. These tools helped rebuild the virginia creeper national recreation trail, an economic lifeline for southwest virginia.
▶ 0:25:53Ten new good neighbor agreements now include recreation services, and I expect that number to grow significantly over the coming years. In closing, high quality, safe recreation experiences are no accident and require investment in the recreation professionals that bring those experiences to life. To fully embrace the outdoor recreation movement, we're developing a national strategy called reimagine recreation to set clear priorities and strengthen partnerships with communities, states, tribes and other federal agencies.
▶ 0:26:21Throughout its development, they've been with us side by side. We will also soon roll out our national forest and grasslands app, a one stop shop on your phone to tell you where to go, what to do, how to get there, and how to prepare. I want to again thank our partners at interior for helping us with the initial concept. All of our public lands are special, offer their own unique set of opportunities through the explore act. The forest service is committed to ensuring all americans can enjoy their public lands.
▶ 0:26:48Whether you enjoy hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, rock climbing, bird watching, mountain biking, skiing, riding an atv, or simply spending time with family, you can do it all in your national forest. Chairman. Westerman. Ranking member huffman thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to working with the subcommittee as we continue implementing the explore act, and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you. Mr. bloom. Before we begin our questions, I ask unanimous consent to enter several items in today's hearing record.
▶ 0:27:18This includes a report from the bureau of land management's congressionally chartered philanthropic partner, the foundation for america's public lands, outlining the work they've done to help implement the act. The foundation currently has more than 40 shovel ready projects, totaling $17 million in funding to support improvements in blm's infrastructure across the west, and I'm particularly pleased to see the foundation leveraging private donations to implement explorers accessibility provisions.
▶ 0:27:44Next, I'd like to enter into the record a letter from the access fund on section 122 of the explorer act, which reaffirms the use and maintenance of fixed anchors in wilderness areas. This letter states, in part, that implementation of the section of explorer is a time sensitive public safety issue, not a discretionary policy project. I couldn't agree more, and I look forward to working with the administration to ensure future interim and final rock climbing guidance.
▶ 0:28:10Adheres to the intent of congress in the explorer act to fully support fixed anchors in wilderness areas. And finally, I ask unanimous consent to enter letters into the record from america's outdoor association and runners for public lands on the implementation of the permitting streamlining provisions of explorer. Without objection. So ordered. Uh, we'll now move to questions. I'll recognize myself for the first question. Chief deputy bloom, section 124.
▶ 0:28:38The explorer act, uh, directs the forest service to restore overnight camping in the ouachita national forest. I know you mentioned that there's some, uh, progress happening there. And I commend your agency for completing the design work necessary for campsites out of the 100 year floodplain. Uh, now that you've identified, uh, suitable campsites outside the floodplain and completed design work, what remains between design and construction, and when can the public reasonably expect to see camping restored?
▶ 0:29:12>> thank you for your question, chairman westerman. Uh, to be clear, I hope I did not misspeak in my opening statement. I wanted to be clear that, you know, the first part of the act directed us to restore day use access, which we've done, and we have identified what we think is a suitable area to develop the overnight camping. We do need to now move into the design phase. So we do not have a full design yet. That is the next task that we're undertaking. Uh, and we will be soliciting bids for that design work.
▶ 0:29:38We're committed to, uh, coming up with that design so that we can move forward then with implementation. >> okay. I'll obviously be be checking up on that one when I'm back home in the district. Um, so what would it take for the first forest service to replicate this kind of campground restoration model more broadly across the whole national forest system? And are there barriers such as permitting, funding or anything else?
▶ 0:30:12>> I would say that the the ouachita situation obviously is unique and requires some special design features, uh, you know, given where it's located. But I think we have a pretty good model in place right now in general, for overnight camping. We have opportunities either within house and through florida. Uh, or we obviously many times work with concessionaires to deliver our camping program.
▶ 0:30:33I'm also excited about the possibilities presented through the good neighbor authority, uh, and our opportunity to work with our state partners, county partners, and others on delivering outstanding camping opportunities. Uh, oftentimes our our state partners do a better job in the developed recreation arena. And I think working hand in hand is where we can really develop or deliver, excuse me, the best suite of opportunities across the landscape and better service to the public. >> I think that's a good model.
▶ 0:30:59I know several of our state parks in arkansas, which are very, very good parks, are located co-located on forest service land. So that's a that is a good model. Doctor hanlon, one of the most important provisions of explorer for arkansas and other places where there's rock climbing was the park act, which protected the use of fixed anchors for rock climbing and wilderness areas.
▶ 0:31:23Uh, arkansas has some world class rock climbing opportunities, and this provision will ensure that folks can continue to recreate safely iconic wilderness areas. Can you please provide an update on boulders? >> yes. Excuse me, and thank you, chairman westerman, for the question.
▶ 0:31:44Um, I'm just happy to report that the blm and more broadly, the department of the interior is making great progress on the draft guidance to comply with the direction of the explorer act as related to section 122. Um, we're working collaboratively within the department and all of our bureaus and also with our, our, um, partners through the five corps at the us forest service to ensure that we employ a very consistent approach, um, for our benefit administratively and also, obviously for the public, who would be recreating in this way, um, we say from
▶ 0:32:16The from the bureau of land management perspective, we, we recognize, um, that fixed anchors clearly. Uh, and we have recognized this for some time, that they have a place in wilderness climbing. That's undisputed, in our opinion. Um, and has been for some time. And also that the, the process that we employ, um, as we develop this draft will, will certainly look at, at other things that are important to the public that have been brought to our attention, such as the use of power drills to place actually place protection permanently. >> yeah.
▶ 0:32:45The committee is aware of some concerns from the rock climbing community about implementation delays, and the concerns are that this could, uh, threaten the maintenance of existing fixed anchors. Uh, can you commit to ensuring the expedited implementation of, uh, this section and particularly as it relates to the safety concerns over anchor maintenance? >> uh, yes, chairman westerman, we do we do commit to an expedited, um, completion.
▶ 0:33:12And as I think another important aspect of this is a very key component of this, is that the drafts that we produce will go out for, uh, engagement with the public, um, prior to being finalized. And we understand that's a very important aspect. So we get this right from the perspective of the recreating public. >> thank you, Mr. bloom. I've got another question for you, but I'll have to submit it in writing regarding the, uh, the good neighbor authority and the work that's happening there. I'm out of time.
▶ 0:33:41I now recognize ranking member negus for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, our public lands are treasures that belong to each and every american. They inspire awe. They transform our lives and our perspectives, and they serve as an incredible economic engine for our local economies. My home state of colorado ranks sixth in the nation for fastest growing outdoor recreation economies, and the explore act recognizes the importance of that.
▶ 0:34:07And I was certainly very proud of the work that we did to get the explorer act across the finish line in the last congress, and eager to hear about the bill's implementation. However, I would be remiss if I didn't just note the real disconnect that I have observed over the course of the last 13 months here in the united states congress to keep pace, our public land management agencies have to have the tools and the resources that they
▶ 0:34:38Need to do their jobs. Alarmingly, the forest service and the national park service lost nearly a quarter of their staff in 2025. My home state of colorado had a 32% decrease in the forest service staff just last year.
▶ 0:34:56It is unacceptable, and I wish my republican colleagues, who were very eager to work with us to get the explorer act across the finish line, would show the same commitment to pushing back against this administration's gutting of our public land management agencies. Uh, hard pressed to understand how the explorer act will be implemented, consistent with the intent of congress and the authors of that legislation.
▶ 0:35:26And I happen to be one of them. When these land management agencies are experiencing the drastic cuts that they've experienced in just the last year. So with that, uh, Mr. bloom and I want to thank both of you, of course, for your service. I understand you both are career officials, and I am very grateful for your service to your respective agencies and to the country. Um, but, Mr.
▶ 0:35:49Bloom, your testimony highlights that the forest service's work to administer more than 165,000 miles of trails across the national forest system is, of course, work that remains ongoing. The recent trail program status report suggests trail maintenance is at its lowest level in 15 years due to a lack of seasonal staff.
▶ 0:36:09So, uh, quick question, I guess, or direct question rather, does the forest service plan to hire seasonals this year? >> uh. Mr. thank you very much for your question. And yes, uh, we are committed to bringing on seasonals this year, particularly in recreation, to help meet demand.
▶ 0:36:31>> uh, I, uh, will follow up in writing, but I would love to be able to perhaps engage in more of a colloquy with you and your agency about the plan as you roll out the effort to hire seasonals, and how you intend to prioritize different areas of the country. As you could probably imagine, we I represent, uh, several national forests, incredible national forests.
▶ 0:36:55And I know you're responsible for the eastern seaboard, but out west, I represent a national forest that is the most highly visited national forest in the united states of america, the white river national forest. And so, uh, there is a desperate need, not just on white river, but on the route national forest, arapaho, roosevelt, and a variety of other forests across colorado, uh, for seasonal assistance. And I certainly hope that we can work with you in the months ahead to address those needs.
▶ 0:37:21Uh, secondly, I know I'm running out of time here, but as you both know, section 128 of the explorer act gave doi and usda authority to respond to and monitor aquatic invasive species, which includes zebra mussels, which have been recently found in the colorado river. It's a devastating development for my district and my state. Uh, even in the past year, since the enactment of the explorer act, those muscles have metastasized through the state's waterways.
▶ 0:37:50You're talking about threatening, uh, the colorado river, uh, you know, lifeblood of my state and the upper basin and lower basin states. We sent a letter to doi and usda in august, along with senator hickenlooper and senator bennett, about the implementation of this section. We haven't received a response from either of your agencies. Could either of you provide an update on the status of implementation of this section? And perhaps more to the point, can you make a commitment? Again, this is not partizan.
▶ 0:38:17This is just trying to get information from your agencies about how the invasive aquatic species act, the mussels act, is being implemented to protect, uh, parts of colorado, parts of utah and the rocky mountain west. And I'll go to either of you. >> uh, congressman, thank you very much for the question. Um, I don't have all of the information I think you're going to going to need to to satisfy your question. I'll come back to that at the end.
▶ 0:38:44But what I do understand is, um, from the department perspective, the department has taken some steps to create the program. Um, assuming that appropriations become available to, to carry it forward. Um, and then, um, speaking from the bureau of land management, I know that we will continue to, um, to, uh, to work with many of the successful working relationships that we have with state wildlife agencies to accomplish the work in the meantime.
▶ 0:39:08And that would also offer, um, congressman neguse that, um, you know, I am sitting in, in utah working there currently, but for the last three years I've lived in mesa county in western colorado, where the the muscle problem is, is, is very apparent. So I appreciate it. And there will be urgency applied. >> thank you. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. Uh, Mr. hanlon, it's nice to meet you. I'm.
▶ 0:39:34We have not run into each other in utah yet, so it's great that you're out here where I can talk to you. Um, you know how important access to public lands is in utah? Um, and how we have such an important network of parks and multiple use land and national conservation lands in the state. And almost all of the friction points we have on public land in utah come down to access.
▶ 0:40:03Everybody's trying to have access, and there are groups that try to restrict other groups access. Um, I had a bunch of rock climbing questions, but the chairman asked most of us, so I won't make you go over all of it again. But, uh, since the text of the act explicitly greenlights climbing fixtures, can you confirm that doi won't subject rock climbing fixtures to minimum required analysis, which would mean delays, litigation and uncertainty for climbers?
▶ 0:40:32>> thank you very much for the question. Um, congresswoman malloy, um, I will tell you that the, um, the intent and the act is clear, as congress has prescribed it. Um, the draft is being produced, um, across the department amongst all the agencies. And that particular provision is front and center and will be will be considered fully as the draft is produced. And when a draft goes out to the public for their engagement. >> okay. Thank you.
▶ 0:40:59Um, I have another question, but I just want to quickly note this may be the first time this has ever been an all female committee. We're having all kinds of historical moments here for america. 250 um, uh, under president biden, the doi dissolved an external working group that was composed of sportsmen and outdoor groups. Um, and that made it easier to restrict access.
▶ 0:41:21Well, doi consider reestablishing that working group so that you're getting good advice from the people who are relying on, uh, public lands for access for their, uh, interests. >> great. Thank you very much for the question. Um, uh, to to answer that that question fully and factually, I'm going to need to take that question back to the department to see where they are in that consideration. Um, but I do commit to, um, to getting you an answer for the record as quickly as possible.
▶ 0:41:52>> okay. Thank you. And I can follow up when we're both in utah as well. We'll keep an eye on that one. Okay. Uh, Mr. bloom, thank you for being here as well. At sometimes when congress passes a law, the implementation doesn't match the expectation. Actually, I should have skipped the first word. There's not a sometimes generally, when congress passes a law, the implementation doesn't match the expectation. How are you ensuring that analytical tools and internal review processes won't be used to delay and undermine congressional intent on the explore act, which is supposed to increase access?
▶ 0:42:25>> thank you for your question. >> um, congresswoman malloy, uh, so I agree wholeheartedly. And I would say that, you know, the chief's intent, uh, the department's intent, is it right in line with what you said? We want to reduce, barriers, uh, internal policies we've developed over the years that at one time were well intentioned but seemed to get in the way sometimes of actually getting work done on the ground. And we have a litany of those types of examples that I could provide you.
▶ 0:42:55And, um, all the reforms that I think of right now that we're working on have that goal in mind. Our special use is performed, um, uh, reforms. Sorry, my time is getting a little tight here. I apologize, but yes, we want to meet that intent. And I guarantee you that you'll see successes in that regard soon. >> okay. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Um, before I was in congress, I spent a lot of time making a living working through these, you know, analysis and delay problems with agencies.
▶ 0:43:24And I would just like to see us get better at that and, and be serving the public that wants these public lands. So I appreciate the commitment. We'll follow up with you as well. And with that, I'm going to stop with a minute left and give you all a minute of your life back. And I will now recognize miss lee for five minutes. >> thank you. Chairwoman, um, it's great to be here. Um, thank you both for your service to our country and to our public lands.
▶ 0:43:51Um, I was really excited to participate in the explore act and see it pass as something to show that congress can actually work together to get something done that's so important to our communities. And in fact, uh, the positive impact of the explore act is, um, it's impossible to overstate the impact it has on my home state of nevada. In fact, outdoor recreation has officially surpassed the mining industry in nevada.
▶ 0:44:20Uh, in terms of its contribution to our gdp, uh, generating $8.8 billion and about 750,000 jobs. Now, um, you know, in biking is at the top of that list of the type of recreation that provides some of the biggest economic boost to nevada, which is one of the reasons I was so proud to support the bolt act. Um, and, uh, with ranking member neguse.
▶ 0:44:49And as you know, our bill directed the department of interior and forest to identify and promote at least ten, uh, existing long distance bike trails, plus highlight at least ten new areas. Uh, Mr. bloom, I think you mentioned that, uh, you're you've identified 16, uh, so far. Can you give us an update? Uh, you know, now that we're at the halfway mark where we are, when we can expect to see all 20?
▶ 0:45:19Uh, just give us an update of where you are on this. >> representative lee, thank you very much for the question. And the bolt act is one of the provisions that I am just absolutely ecstatic about. I believe that we have identified 26, uh, potential long distance trails. It's one in at least every one of our regions, um, trails of that magnitude. There is, you know, a fair amount of work that needs to go into trails of that length, you know, ground truthing making sure that we have different ownership access lined up. There's a lot that goes into it.
▶ 0:45:49So I honestly can't say specifically a date as to when would be completed, but we are working right now to prioritize those in terms of what has the highest chance for success, uh, that we can move out on the quickest, uh, in terms of all those considerations, um, and it's nothing that we want to drag our feet on. We want to create these opportunities as soon as possible. I can try to get you a more specific date and a follow up. >> great. Thank you. As an avid mountain biker, I look forward to it and look forward to participating and biking on some of these trails.
▶ 0:46:19Um, I want to turn now to, um, the jewel of blm's national conservation lands, which is the red rock national conservation area in my district. It includes two wilderness areas. And, um, when red rock was originally established in 1982, 20,000 people visited it.
▶ 0:46:41Uh, today, we regularly welcome more than 2 million visitors annually, and it's regarded as one of the world's premier rock climbing destinations. Uh, and so along those lines, I was very excited to help, uh, advocate for the inclusion of the park act, uh, in the explore act. Um, uh, I think it was Mr.
▶ 0:47:06Bloom or you talked about, uh, um, you know, in response to the chairman's questions regarding, uh, getting the input of the climbing community, uh, in managing these, uh, fixed anchored routes, which is so incredibly important. Um, I just wanted to just expand on that to. Or maybe it was Mr. hanlon. I'm sorry. Expand on that.
▶ 0:47:33On what are can you walk through what's being done to actively include climbing? Uh, the climbing community. And I know in 2019, there was a working group that was disbanded. Is there any effort to perhaps, uh, reinstate a similar type of working group to make sure that we're getting the type of input that we need to have a collaboration to make sure this is done well. >> all right. Thank you. Excuse me.
▶ 0:48:02Thank you very much for the question, representative lee. Um, I do know that, um, you know, there's, uh, there is a always a continual work to be done to make sure that we have good communications with many segments of the stakeholders that we that represent the activities that we manage on our blm public lands and the rock climbing community absolutely is at the top, the top of that heap.
▶ 0:48:24Um, it has been from a blm perspective, um, we in the absence of the working group that you described, which I would have to check in with the department and get back to you on whether there is a firm plan to reestablish it or not. I will share from a blm perspective, we have conducted outreach, and we know through that outreach that it's also occurring with with a number of our partners that we're working with here.
▶ 0:48:47Obviously, our sister bureaus throughout the department, and then our good friends with the us forest service, with whom we share many of these same rock climbing areas. Um, I would just say that, um, if and when the working group is reestablished, um, regardless of that fact, the communication is occurring and you have our commitment, I'll give you that from the bureau of land management to make sure that that that continues and improves over time if it needs to. >> great. Thank you I yield.
▶ 0:49:16>> if there are no further questions, we will now move on to our second panel. I'd like to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony. You're now dismissed. While the clerk resets our witness table, I'll remind the witnesses that under committee rules, they must limit their oral statements to five minutes. But their entire statement will appear in the hearing record. I'd also like to remind our witnesses of the timing lights, which will turn red at the end of your five minute statement. And please remember to turn on your microphone when you're ready to speak.
▶ 0:49:43As with the first panel, I'll allow all witnesses to testify before member questioning.
▶ 0:51:09>> now begin the, uh, witness testimony. And first, I'd like to recognize and introduce miss jessica turner, president of the outdoor recreation roundtable. Miss turner, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. Chairman westerman, congresswoman lee and members of the subcommittee, the entire recreation community is sincerely grateful for your attention to this historic legislation, which was the product of decades of hard work and careful compromise.
▶ 0:51:32The goals today remain true to the bill's original intent expanding recreation access and modernizing federal agency policies and infrastructure to grow the recreation economy and support the health of local communities, businesses, and our public lands and waters. The explore act has given us the tools, the mandate and the momentum, but success will now be measured by whether we act with urgency equal to the opportunity before us. I look forward to our discussion today and how we can do just that through the continued implementation of this law.
▶ 0:52:00As we celebrate america's 250th, or our is the nation's leading coalition of outdoor recreation associations, representing more than 110,000 american businesses and the full spectrum of outdoor recreation activities. According to the department of commerce, in 2023, outdoor recreation generated 1.2 trillion in economic impact and 5 million american jobs. But it's not just dollars and jobs. Our industry is essential to physical, mental and community health and wide ranging benefits for the nation now and into the next 250 years.
▶ 0:52:32First, I'd like to commend chairman westerman, the late ranking member grijalva, and this subcommittee for your leadership and tireless efforts to advance this first ever recreation package, made up of bipartisan and bicameral provisions. Explore was built through old fashioned hard work, negotiation and good faith collaboration, and those same values will be essential to preserving outdoor experiences for future generations through the successful implementation of this law. Because of your support of explore, outdoor recreation is better positioned to provide more opportunities for people living near recreation assets.
▶ 0:53:01Improved visitor experiences for the 165 million americans who get outside each year. Business certainty and economic vitality for rural communities. One year in the explore act is already delivering real progress, from streamlining access through the america the beautiful digital pass to more than 150,004th graders using their every kid in a park pass. We've seen blm expand accessible trails and get to work on guiding, outfitting, permitting reform.
▶ 0:53:27We are proud to work closely with secretary burgum on a secretary order, which represents support for the bill's policies and directives at the highest levels of the administration, and hope for a similar secretary memo from usda. We know agency leaders and staff are working diligently, and much work remains to ensure every community and every american can benefit from this landmark law. We encourage government agencies to work collaboratively through the federal interagency council on recreation on a shared implementation framework.
▶ 0:53:52As the law directs, coordination is critical to ensuring internal alignment, efficient use of government resources, and consistent recreation policies across bureaus. Similarly, we encourage the agencies to continue working with external partners, including members of our and our state offices of outdoor recreation, here today to reduce hurdles and propel innovation.
▶ 0:54:12For instance, our convened agency leaders and industry ceos at our technology and innovation summit, showcasing public private partnerships and tech solutions for creating more access to information and and the access that we need to support explorers goals of sustainable businesses, resources and gateway communities. The great accomplishments explorer is poised to deliver could not come at a better time. What better way to celebrate america's two 50th than preserving the same outdoor recreation experiences for the next 250 years?
▶ 0:54:39Execution of explorer provisions is integral to highlighting america's public lands and waters at their best, and introducing more people to the outdoors. We hope reauthorization of the legacy restoration fund will complement the new tools in the in the explorer toolbox and designate funding for 250 impactful outdoor recreation projects that bring revenue to agencies and local communities like marinas, campgrounds and trails. These are the durable solutions and legacy that americans will continue to enjoy and benefit from 250 years from now.
▶ 0:55:09Year one demonstrated what we can achieve by turning vision into action, but significant work remains to fully realize the explorer act's promise. I strongly encourage this committee to ensure that implementation remains as much of a priority as its passage was last year, as delays carry real opportunity costs. Championed this process with sustained bipartisan oversight and partnership with federal agencies, states, tribes, gateway communities and the private sector.
▶ 0:55:32As you are modeling here today will be essential to delivering the law's full benefits, as america's two 50th reminds us of common ground and a shared cause, it is important to note how explorer brought together both sides of the aisle as a beacon of bipartisan cooperation and consensus building. Everyone wins when this collaboration occurs, and our industry is able to do what we do best support healthy communities, people, jobs and economies, or our and our members will continue to support the implementation of this law.
▶ 0:55:59And we look forward to working together with you to lift all boats in the recreation economies. Rising tide. Thank you. >> thank you, miss turner. Uh, I'll now recognize Mr. taylor schmitz, senior vice president of the congressional sportsmen's foundation. Mr. smith, you're recognized for five minutes. Chairman. >> westerman. Congresswoman lee, members of the subcommittee. My name is taylor schmitz, and I serve as the senior vice president for the congressional sportsmen's foundation.
▶ 0:56:24Csf at the outset, thank you for holding this hearing on the explore act, one of the most significant outdoor recreation bills to ever pass congress. Csf would also like to thank congressional sportsmen's caucus co-chair congressman westerman, the late congressman grijalva, former congressional sportsmen's caucus co-chair and current csf board member senator manchin, csc members senator barrasso, and the other champions who made the explore act a reality.
▶ 0:56:48Lastly, csf would also like to thank secretary burgum for signing secretary order 3435 to provide clarity and direction on the implementation of this historic law. The act is yet another example of how our uniquely american outdoor heritage, especially our time honored traditions of hunting, fishing and recreational shooting, transcend party lines and serve as a conduit to bipartisan, meaningful victories that all americans stand to benefit from. For many of us, our most cherished memories occur in the great outdoors, whether it's here in a turkey.
▶ 0:57:17Respond to your call feeling a fishbowl on the other end of your rod. It is through these experiences that millions of americans build lifelong family memories and and develop deep and enduring friendships. Section 123 of the act seeks to improve access opportunities for the nearly 53 million people who target shoot, roughly one fifth of adult americans last year alone.
▶ 0:57:38Excise taxes on firearms, ammunition and archery equipment provided nearly $1 billion for on the ground conservation and public access, the largest source of wildlife conservation funding in the country. Unfortunately, lack of readily accessible public target shooting ranges is still a significant challenge and a top reason why people no longer target shoot. Csf strongly supports dispersed recreational shooting, a long standing lawful use of both blm and forest service lands. But we understand there are places where dispersed shooting is no longer appropriate.
▶ 0:58:07As such, we urge the agency to examine areas where dispersed shooting is being sought for closure and focus immediately on the development of shooting ranges near these areas, as required by the explore act, while importantly maintaining dispersed recreational shooting to the maximum extent possible to limit any reduction in access.
▶ 0:58:25Recognizing that building shooting ranges requires financial investments, we urge the federal agencies to work with state wildlife agencies, ngos and private businesses and others to leverage pittman-robertson dollars and private sources of funding to secure funding for the development of shooting ranges.
▶ 0:58:40Csf also recommends the development of shooting ranges that meet different needs and interests of sportsmen and women, a common issue faced by both recreational shooters and hunters is the lack of ranges to pattern their shotguns, limiting the ability of both hunters and target shooters to determine which shot shells work best in their firearms.
▶ 0:58:59The explore act provides discretionary authority to the blm and the forest service to include features such as trash containers, restrooms and benches, and csf would strongly encourage both agencies to include these features when developing new target shooting ranges. Without these features, developed ranges are largely the same as undeveloped recreational shooting areas that already exist. Section 351 good neighbor authority for recreation is critical to improve collaborative active forest management across federal and nonfederal lands. Insects, diseases and fire.
▶ 0:59:26Do not recognize man made boundaries, and if management can only be conducted on one side of the boundary line, then the management fails to comprehensively address forest health. That landscape scale. Csf applauds the improvements provided through the explore actually in a language that allows for funds generated through this programing to be used for recreation services utilizing revenue remaining after conservation projects have occurred to fund recreation improvements such as boat ramps, shooting ranges, trailheads and others is a sustainable model that incentivizes actively managing
▶ 0:59:57Forests to increase resiliency to wildfire, improve habitat for wildlife, and enhance outdoor recreation. Csf encourages the agencies to proactively seek new opportunities to partner with states, counties and tribes to accelerate forest restoration activities. Additionally, csf encourages federal agencies to continue using an all lands approach to identify restoration needs across landscapes to increase collaboration with states, counties, and our tribal partners.
▶ 1:00:23In closing, csf looks forward to working with our federal agency partners as well as the committee to see the explore act fully implemented. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. smith. I now recognize Mr. jason curry, director of the division of outdoor recreation at the utah department of natural resources. Director curry, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. Chairman westerman, congresswoman lee and members of the committee. My name is jason curry.
▶ 1:00:51I'm the director of the utah division of outdoor recreation. And I'm grateful for this opportunity and grateful to this committee for its work on the explore act, notably to utah members, congressman kennedy and my own representative, congresswoman malloy. Um, as we are reflecting on explore act, though, I want to express gratitude, especially on the state of utah. Um, for more than two thirds of our land is federal land.
▶ 1:01:12Um, passage was lauded widely throughout all facets of outdoor recreation, and we're proud as a community to see a bill of this size and complexity pass unanimously. It was a welcome victory then, and a valuable lesson in today's world to point to congress's ability to make a piece of legislation with multiple detailed sections succeed. So again, thank you. Outdoor recreation is and always should be nonpartisan. 13 years ago, utah formed the office of outdoor recreation. It was the first of its kind in the country.
▶ 1:01:42And since then, 23 other states have done the same. In an effort to grow the outdoor recreation economy and advocate for outdoor recreation policy in their states, collectively and on a national level, these states have formed a coalition, the confluence of states, to elevate outdoor recreation as not only a significant piece of the economy, but as a substantial source of health and well-being, not just because outdoor recreation is enjoyable as a leisure activity, but because it's an essential connection to the natural world and our creator.
▶ 1:02:10Full implementation of the act means greater access to outdoor recreation opportunities that exist in this country. Study after study shows that when an individual engages in outdoor recreation, there's a bottom line reduction in their health care burden, cardiovascular disease, type two diabetes, and other chronic illnesses are reduced. Imagine what that's doing for our nation's overall health care costs. Each time a parent makes time to take their children into the outdoors, it's less likely that they'll be anxious, depressed, or suicidal.
▶ 1:02:39That includes both the kids and the parents. One study in particular concluded that being in the outdoors for children with adhd resulted in improvements to their ability to focus and learn that was comparable to the peak effects of ritalin. I invite you to find other similar scholarly articles and research studies that suggest that, for some, outdoor recreation can be just as effective as medicine and counseling when it comes to mental health outcomes. None of these studies suggest that clinical mental health treatment is not needed, but the time in the outdoors is a valid healthcare intervention.
▶ 1:03:10If the agency's directed any explore act continue to carry out the various directives to enhance visitor experiences and increase access to public land, we'll have fewer people living and focusing in the digital world, more overall health and well-being, and hopefully more rational conversations around the common grounds that are found in the outdoors for our veterans, young people, disabled users, aging population, and low income communities. The need for access to outdoor recreation spaces has never been greater.
▶ 1:03:38There are specific provisions in the act that address each of these groups. Specifically, many of the provisions in the explore act direct that direct federal land management agencies to coordinate and consult with state and local governments has been a source of excitement and optimism, especially in rural utah, where nearly every city and town borders with federal lands. We've already seen some promising signs, including the secretary's orders from the department of interior, on things like local coordination with gateway communities and a general order to implement the various provisions in the act.
▶ 1:04:09I'm hopeful hopeful that the secretary's order will be issued by the secretary of agriculture as well. We're grateful for the work being done by our partners, and states are prepared to be a force multiplier to deliver explore, act results alongside our federal partners. I counted 16 different instances in the act where a key part of the section is that federal agencies may or shall coordinate, cooperate, or collaborate with state and local governments.
▶ 1:04:32The ethic of shared stewardship of public lands is found throughout the various sections, and we're counting on those agencies, especially on the folks on the ground, to take it seriously. Thank you for the opportunity today. Utah, along with other states, is hopeful that the agencies concerned will continue with policy directives that explicitly clarify that full implementation of the act is a core agency policy directive. Thank you. >> thank you, director curry. I now recognize Mr.
▶ 1:05:02Lewis gilman, vice president of policy and government relations at outdoor alliance. Mr. gilman, you're now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chair, and thank you, representative lee and committee members. Um, my name is lewis gellman. I'm the vice president for policy and government relations at outdoor alliance.
▶ 1:05:19I've sat in this spot just one time before, and it was to testify nearly ten years ago on a bill from then committee chairman rob bishop called recreation, not red tape, which was in many ways the beginning of the journey. That hit an incredible milestone this last year with the passage of the act.
▶ 1:05:37Chairman bishop developed his bill in close collaboration with senator wyden, and I'm tremendously grateful for the spirit of bipartisanship with which congress in this committee has approached the work of protecting and enhancing outdoor recreation opportunities in our public lands and waters. That spirit was carried forward by chairman westerman, uh, then chair, former chairman, the late Mr. grijalva, ranking member hoffman, and many others.
▶ 1:06:07I'm also grateful to the long list of people and organizations who've contributed to this effort, and it's an honor to be up here with colleagues who've been such wonderful collaborators in this process. I also want to acknowledge the work of outdoor alliance's member organizations. Outdoor alliance is a national coalition that unites the voices of the human powered outdoor recreation community to conserve public lands and waters and ensure sustainable management and recreation access.
▶ 1:06:35Our members include access fund, american canoe association, american whitewater, the international mountain bicycling association, winter wildlands alliance, the mountaineers, american alpine club, colorado mountain club, and surfrider foundation. The staff at these organizations are a wealth of knowledge on recreation and public lands management, and many of them have been intimately involved in the development and implementation of the act.
▶ 1:07:04Our experience with implementing implementation of the explorer act thus far has been positive, but also mixed. I'm grateful to be able to report that explore implementation has been a priority for this administration, but at the same time, those efforts have been limited by the effects of drastic staffing reductions and reorganization of the land management agencies, according to the office of personnel management, the department of interior has lost more than 9000 staff since the beginning
▶ 1:07:35Of fy 25. Usda forest service has lost more than 8500 staff over the same period. From our interactions with federal agencies over the past year and the experience of our communities on the ground, we know that these staff reductions are severely affecting recreation and recreation related positions, and we're losing staff who are among the most qualified to lead on implementing major, major initiatives like the explore act.
▶ 1:08:01More to the point, the goal of the explore act is to improve access to high quality outdoor recreation opportunities on public lands and waters, and even if the act is fully implemented, we risk those benefits being overwhelmed by the broader negative effects of agency staffing reductions. Our community is grateful for congress's bipartisan support for fy 26 interior appropriations that passed last week, and we hope that that will give greater stability to the agencies going forward.
▶ 1:08:31I'd like to share a briefly, a little bit of our community specific experiences working on explore implementation. We're extremely grateful for the forest service's work towards implementing section 112 to inventory for recreation resources on public lands and waters. This work is an important step in giving land managers better information on recreation to inform management decisions.
▶ 1:08:56We're likewise pleased with the progress towards implementing sections 132 and 133 concerning improved visitor use data. Section 122 expresses the clear intent of congress that climbing, including the use, placement and maintenance of fixed anchors, is an appropriate use of public land, including in designated wilderness areas. We're awaiting the release of required agency guidance, and our hope is that it will avoid the approach.
▶ 1:09:21The approach proposed by the previous administration, which is counter to the intent of the explore act. Finally, I'm very concerned about the implementation of section 127 motorized and non-motorized access.
▶ 1:09:35This section originated as a prompt to the forest service to move briskly to complete winter travel management plans for forests that have not gone through that process, and to improve the accessibility of information on motorized access, the forest service has stated its intent to repeal its travel management regulations, and a significant course correction is needed to adhere to the intent of the explore act. Thank you again for having me and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you, Mr. gilman.
▶ 1:10:05I now recognize Mr. matt wade, executive director of the american mountain guides association. Mr. wade, you have five minutes. >> thank you. Chair. Westerman. >> subcommittee chair. Tiffany, congresswoman lee and members of the subcommittee. My name is matt wade, and I'm the executive director of the american mountain guides association. The american mountain guides association provides training and certification for climbing instructors, mountain guides, and backcountry skiing guides across the united states.
▶ 1:10:35Founded in 1979, the amga has trained over 15,000 guides who provide outdoor experiences for the public on public lands. Of additional relevance to today's hearing, our membership includes outfitters and guides who have been operating within the modern commercial recreation permit system since its inception. We appreciate the opportunity to provide testimony. Today.
▶ 1:10:56I will focus my comments on title three, the simplifying outdoor access for recreation act or act, as I was involved in the development of this section, which dates back nearly 15 years, to early conversations about outfitter guide permitting reform. Those conversations stemmed from real barriers that were preventing guides from providing the public with outdoor experiences. It wasn't uncommon for a guide to contact a land agency to apply for a permit, only to be told we aren't issuing any permits right now.
▶ 1:11:26Can you come back in a few years? Since that time, we've come a long way in identifying the roadblocks that have been constraining access, and the strategies contained in title three of the act have been developed to overcome those roadblocks. And now it is highly significant to be on the doorstep of changes that will enhance recreational access, increase agency efficiency, and support the livelihoods of outfitters and guides.
▶ 1:11:51We are truly on the cusp of a new era, and I thank you, on behalf of amga members nationwide, for your diligence and perseverance in enacting the improvements contained in title three. I would also like to express gratitude to the teams at the us forest service, bureau of land management and national park service who have already begun the work of implementation. They have been applying great effort to align their systems and procedures with the streamlining goals outlined in the explore act.
▶ 1:12:18In doing so, they have cultivated communication with amga and other stakeholders to understand intent, share ideas, and promote open dialog. We believe this collaboration is essential to real world success in the field. Thank you. Forest service, blm and national park service. As we sit here today, there is much progress to be thankful for and there is reason to be optimistic about the future.
▶ 1:12:43Yet there are also critical steps that must be taken to ensure efficiencies in permitting are fully realized. First, land agencies must have sufficient staff capacity. Implementing title three will require substantial effort to develop new permit types and fee structures, design and deploy online application and reporting systems, and coordinate the creation of new multi-jurisdictional permits.
▶ 1:13:09These new tools and procedures must then be communicated to the field through carefully crafted guidance in many hours of training, and then permit administrators must convert every single existing outfitter guide permit to a new format. This will be an all hands on deck undertaking that will necessitate full staffing at all levels, from policy and program teams to permit administrators in the field.
▶ 1:13:34We ask congress to work with agencies to ensure agency resources are applied where needed to effectuate a successful implementation. It will also be important to invite feedback from the public in the implementation process to balance prompt implementation with public involvement. Amga supports the agency's use of interim directives or guidance.
▶ 1:13:58Advancing new procedures through interim guidance can accelerate learning by allowing field staff to apply new approaches and generate practical feedback in real time. But once interim guidance has been put into practice, it should be made available for public comment through a traditional notice and comment process. This will promote transparency and ensure final directives are informed, workable and aligned with congressional intent. Finally, assistance from congress is needed to enact a series of important technical changes.
▶ 1:14:30For example, a fix is needed to clarify that a temporary permit can be converted to a long term permit after two years of satisfactory performance under either a permit or multiple permits. Making this change and other key technical fixes will eliminate confusion and support a smooth implementation process. On behalf of the amga, thank you for the opportunity to submit this testimony.
▶ 1:14:55We look forward to working with the committee and the agencies to ensure the explore act fulfills congress's intent to increase access for guided recreational opportunities on america's public lands. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. wade. Finally, I want to recognize Mr. david duncan, president of the american battlefield trust. Mr. duncan, you have five minutes. >> thank you very much. Thank you. Chairman, westerman, committee chairman. Tiffany.
▶ 1:15:22Miss lee, uh, I'm grateful for the opportunity to be with you here today. Uh, I have had the honor and privilege to work for the american battlefield trust, which is a private, nonprofit organization for nearly 26 years, and the further honor to be its president for nearly five and a half of those years. So I have spent most of my career saving america's hallowed ground. And I have one mission here today, and that is to say thank you.
▶ 1:15:51Thank you to this subcommittee, to this committee, and to congress. Uh, because one of the key elements that have allowed our private citizens organization to preserve more than now, 61,000 acres of hallowed ground, unprotected, previously unprotected battlefield land from the war of 1812, the american civil war.
▶ 1:16:17And very appropriately, this year, the revolutionary war. A key element to that success has been something called the american battlefield protection program, administered through the national park service, and it's known by abp. That program, which is a dollar for dollar match.
▶ 1:16:37We don't get a federal dollar unless we raise a private dollar is, from my money, probably the most successful public private partnership, uh, in all of american government. If anybody can find a better one, I hope you will let me know. But, uh, it has always been a good program. The american battlefield protection program enhancement act, that was part of the explorer act, has now made it an even better program.
▶ 1:17:05It is proving to be exactly as we hoped, that it would be an accelerant to our efforts to work with private, willing sellers to pay fair market value for their property so that it can then be preserved forever for future generations. Uh, this program has now saved, uh, well, north of 30,000 of those 61,000 acres that we have saved in 25 states, at 165 battlefields all across america.
▶ 1:17:34Uh, just as an example of one way the enhancement act through the explorer act is making that program more efficient, is that the enhancement act allowed nonprofit organizations and tribes, uh, like my organization, to apply directly for those federal matching grants instead of having to utilize a government pass through.
▶ 1:17:57Well, in many cases, previously, that government pass through would cost us valuable time, uh, in some cases, months before the grant could actually begin, the process of heading its way through the national park service. Uh, recently we conducted, um, because of the explorer act, we were able to submit a grant within one day, the same day that we were able to pull of all, all of our materials together.
▶ 1:18:25Uh, so 73 days on average to one day. That sounds like an efficiency to me, uh, that we have gained. Um, all of this, of course, is very, very important this year and in the coming years, because we do save land from the revolutionary war. And for most people, uh, after the fireworks fade on july 4th of this year, they're going to think the semiquincentennial is over.
▶ 1:18:51Uh, but for us and for the battles that actually secured our country's freedom, july 4th is really just the starting gun. And so we will be able to utilize this grant and these programs going forward to save hundreds of acres of previously unprotected revolutionary war battlefield land.
▶ 1:19:11And again, I think looking forward, one of my goals is to have those people who are here at the tricentennial of america's independence 50 years from now, look back at us and be, uh, just amazed at what we were able to accomplish in terms of saving our country's history and heritage. Uh, so again, I thank you all for your efforts. Uh, it is paying off. And I'm very, very grateful to you.
▶ 1:19:39And I look forward to your questions. >> yeah. Thank you, Mr. duncan. By the way, what do we call 250 years. Semiquincentennial semiquincentennial. I gotta remember that. Be able to say it. Uh, we are going to take questions now. Um, uh, for our witnesses, we're going to start with miss malloy from the great state of utah. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. We're having quite a utah day here today in the committee. Um, so I'm going to start with you, Mr. curry.
▶ 1:20:08Thanks for being here. Uh, it's good to see you here. Um, you talked about how our state is two thirds owned and managed by the federal government, and that does make things like the explorer act extra important in places like utah. Um, where is explorer and state federal coordination over explorer working best? Where have you seen it be the most successful so far? >> thank you for the question, congresswoman malloy.
▶ 1:20:36And, um, I would say that where it's working best is at a high level. Our, uh, intermountain region staff on the recreation side, um, they're very familiar with the explorer act. The provisions are, um, familiar, and implementation is happening at least on a on a a high level, I would say, down into the individual forests and districts.
▶ 1:20:59Um, the word still getting out that we're serious about this, so, um, it's challenging the the wasatch cache national forest in northern utah is, is one of the busiest in the country. Uh, tons of of recreation demand. And the progress being made there is very promising.
▶ 1:21:16And, um, especially with two weeks ago having been able to sign a cooperative agreement with the forest service between, um, the state and the forest service on shared stewardship and good neighbor authority, we're looking forward to to even more. >> thank you. And do you have any examples where utah's been ready to help deliver results? But lacked the federal partnership or federal authority? >> yeah, there there are a couple of instances that we're working on.
▶ 1:21:44We're hopeful areas like, uh, again, on the wasatch cache national forest, sunset campground was a campground that was really popular, one of the only ones available to that urban area closed due to, uh, just disrepair and their inability to to keep it up. And the state was prepared to, to come in and manage. That just didn't happen. That was several years ago.
▶ 1:22:07I think if if we have a similar situation today, which that campground is still closed, but it's on the on the table to discuss, uh, places like flaming gorge in, in northeast utah. Um, we'd love to be able to, to do the same thing there where it's just a state of disrepair and the maintenance backlog, while there has been some good progress, just continues to to suffer. >> thank you.
▶ 1:22:26Um, miss turner, you testified that explorer gave agencies the tools, the mandate and the momentum, but that success now depends on urgency. And I absolutely agree. Where do you see the greatest risk of delay moving forward? >> you know, I actually think, um, what Mr. curry mentioned just about the health benefits of time outside. We are in a health crisis right now, mental, physical, societal.
▶ 1:22:55And um, every day that there's delay in getting more people outside, uh, more young people, more veterans, I think that's a real health crisis that could be fixed or solved. So, um, I think the veterans component, the accessible trails, I know the, uh, america's foundation for public lands, the congressionally chartered foundation for blm, is working on public private partnerships. They're supporting trail in utah mud trail, um, you know, helps 50,000 people come to san juan county in utah and make sure it's accessible for those folks.
▶ 1:23:23So I think really leaning into our public private partnerships, um, who want to be helpful and and on the soar act, you know, matt testified that there's some technical changes. We want to make this work not just for our businesses who need this, you know, to plan for trips. You know, they want to market next month, next week, but also for the agencies to have what they need to be successful. So, um, I think what you're doing here today is, uh, actually really, really important. I think the agencies being here and their testimony was really important to that as well. >> thank you.
▶ 1:23:51You've all been a great panel. I have a bunch of questions I'm not going to be able to get to. So just for the sake of time, I want to touch two things really quickly. Um, Mr. wade and Mr. gellman, both of you talked about, uh, agencies being understaffed, and we're here talking about the efficiencies and making these processes more streamlined. I hope people don't miss the connection between the two agencies are doing a quicker, better job of what they're doing. Maybe they don't need as much staff and we can solve both of these problems. And Mr. duncan, thank you for being here.
▶ 1:24:21I'm a big fan of what american battlefield trust does, and thank you for pointing out the connection between the semiquincentennial and preserving these battlefields. I'm just really grateful I wasn't here for it. But that explore passed before, uh, we got to america's 250th birthday so that we're already preserving, um, these battlefields and making sure that we can learn from our own history. I think that's a really important part of making sure that we have 250 more years of america.
▶ 1:24:49And with that, I yield back. >> the gentlelady yields back. I now recognize miss lee for her questioning. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, thank you to all the witnesses for all of your work you do, and for being here. I want to continue along the earlier line of my questioning to the agencies, witnesses. Uh, as we all know, with the passage of the park act, congress made it clear that it overwhelmingly supports sustainable rock climbing.
▶ 1:25:18It's a delicate balance between access and resource protection. I'm beginning to hear some reports, however, from the climbing community that even after the passage of the park act, uh, there's some difficulties in remaining in the implementation, particularly as it relates to fixed anchors and wilderness areas.
▶ 1:25:43Uh, advocates have informed me that at least one instance where climbers were recently denied permission, uh, to even replace existing, uh, fixed anchors on an established route with agencies officials pointing to, uh, minimum requirement analysis as the basis for their decision making. In this regard.
▶ 1:26:05This kind of analysis, however, is supposed to apply to only activities that are generally prohibited in the wilderness. Uh, under the park act. Uh, and obviously climbing is now permitted. And, you know, it's not a prohibited activity. I want to turn to Mr. wade and Mr. gellman.
▶ 1:26:28Um, are the is the amga and the outdoor alliance aware of this or similar bureaucratic challenges that have made it harder, um, than it should be for climbers to maintain fixed anchors in wilderness areas? I'll turn to Mr. wade first, and, um, and then Mr. gellman. >> thank you. >> thank you, congresswoman lee.
▶ 1:26:58I appreciate your, uh, rock climbing in your district. I did work as a climbing guide in red rock, uh, for a number of years. And share your love for that area. I also share your desire for sustainable management that balances climbing access and climber safety with strong resource protection. To speak to your point about climbing fixed anchors, the maintenance of them, placement, etc.
▶ 1:27:23It's very important in the forthcoming guidance that the guidance clearly recognizes recreational climbing and wilderness and the placement, use and maintenance of fixed anchors in wilderness as not prohibited. That these are allowable activities. As congress has made clear in the protecting america's rock climbing act.
▶ 1:27:46And that should be the baseline for the development of the guidance in terms of the management of fixed anchors. Specifically, the guidance should very clearly lay out a process for the authorization of the placement of new fixed anchors in wilderness. As you stated, that process needs to be workable both for the agencies and for climbers and guides who are seeking that authorization.
▶ 1:28:14It's not appropriate to apply a minimum requirements analysis in this situation. That's incredibly complex and incredibly time consuming, both for agency staff as well as for the climbers who are seeking this approval. So this should be a straightforward process that can be completed in a timely manner.
▶ 1:28:31You mentioned the maintenance of fixed anchors, and I will say that that's a very important issue for guides, because it's often the case that a guide is not aware of the need to maintain an anchor until they arrive on site. And I can say from experience in red rock, a lot of these climbs, they terminate at the the top of a big pinnacle or at the top of a tall wall.
▶ 1:28:57And in order to get back down, the climbers have to attach their rope to these fixed anchors that are in place. And if a guide arrives on site and that anchor needs to be maintained, they have to be able to maintain it right there. And we're talking about being in the wilderness and there's no cell service. And they can't ask for pre-approval at that point. So purely as a practical matter and a safety issue, it's very important for these anchors to be maintainable in the moment.
▶ 1:29:26And then lastly, I'll just comment that in order for all of this to unfold in a productive way, it's going to be really important for the agencies to solicit input from the public in this process, and particularly from climbers and guides who utilize these tools on a regular basis. Thank you for the question. >> thank you. Did you have anything to add, Mr. feldman? >> I couldn't say it better than matt did. >> I think he handled it all.
▶ 1:29:53So, uh, thank you very much for I think you've laid out clearly the steps that need to be taken. And, uh, I, you know, I asked the previous witnesses if we could reestablish some sort of formal working group to make sure that we get that input, um, you know, that it's done preemptively. So thank you for your answer. And I yield. >> gentlelady's time has expired. Now, recognize the chairman of the committee, Mr. westerman, for his questioning.
▶ 1:30:24>> thank you, chairman tiffany. Thank you again to the witnesses for being here. I've got a lot of questions, so I'm going to try to ask them quickly if you all will try to answer them quickly as well. Uh, Mr. turner, thank you again for being here and for the work. All the work you put into getting the explorer act passed. I know you represent dozens of of groups across the country that are the backbone of the $1.2 trillion outdoor recreation industry.
▶ 1:30:47Uh, can you briefly talk about how the explore act, what that means to the recreation economy, and how can it make outdoor recreation more affordable for american citizens? >> sure. We, um, thank you for the question, chairman. And the work together with your team was wonderful. Um, we know the 1.2 trillion recreation economy stats, the 5 million jobs. You know, 3% of all us employees are employed by this sector, some of them here today, which is great to share a panel with.
▶ 1:31:18But what we've found in our own research is that actually, every day, recreation on federal lands contributes $351 million. And what I find, um, we've been working on with the agencies is explore brings that recreation impact to main street businesses and that helps rural communities and gateway communities. And so the connection between people wanting to get outside the recreation economy that that brings and bringing it to businesses, uh, and the community is really important for us, and it does it through many ways. I'll be really quick.
▶ 1:31:48Removing the red tape the barriers has been huge. We talked about that through soar, modernizing infrastructure, better experiences, keeps people coming back and keeps people in gateway communities longer. And that's really important. And we're really excited about the data side, the real time data implementation, allowing gateway communities and rural communities to have the most up to date information, to plan accordingly and create their own authentic outdoor recreation economies. >> I realize that probably wasn't a fair question to ask. A short answer, but. >> I'm like.
▶ 1:32:17>> you also mentioned in your testimony about the reauthorization of the great american outdoor act. How could that be used to further enhance the explore act? >> so explore is updating policies that have really never been updated before. And the most comprehensive way we we could all imagine and legacy restoration fund is really putting that to work through projects. We think that 250 years ago, we can look back on all of those projects, um, and the c.c.c. That were developed.
▶ 1:32:46We really hope in 250 years, americans can look back now at what we did through legacy restoration fund. Like I said, it modernized infrastructure. Better infrastructure doesn't just keep people in these communities longer. It brings much needed revenue to the land management agencies through passes and fees. And so we hope that lif if reauthorized, um, you know, brings those projects to the forefront this year, 250 recreation projects that can bring revenue to communities and businesses. >> thank you. Mr. duncan.
▶ 1:33:13I was pleased to see in your testimony that because of the explorer act, application, timelines for the trust have decreased from 73 days to same day transactions. How does this reform, along with others in the explorer, help the american battlefield trust prepare for america's 250 celebrations? >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Um, if anything, it's an accelerant to our efforts to save critical land. Uh, again, not just in the next six months, but for the next 6 or 7 years.
▶ 1:33:42Uh, we work exclusively with willing sellers. We pay fair market value. And the american battlefield protection program provides a dollar for dollar match. Uh, the accelerating process means that we can close more deals more quickly. We can be more efficient because of the efficiencies built into the act. And we can save more hallowed ground. That's the bottom line. And we've talked a little bit about the economic impact. Battlefields mean business to millions of people.
▶ 1:34:12Go to these battlefields each year to the benefit of those communities that have preserved, protected and properly promoted battlefields. Uh, and so that that strengthens, strengthens local businesses and helps with affordability as well. >> to thank you, Mr. schmidt, as, uh, house co-chair, with representative panetta, the congressional sportsmen's caucus certainly understand the importance of the work that you do.
▶ 1:34:37And we talked about shooting ranges and, um, how the explorer was able to keep at least one open in utah. I was just at a university in my district this past week, and they, uh, have a shooting team, but they have no, no range. Um, and they were asking, how do we how do we get a place for, uh, these range or how do we get a range built?
▶ 1:35:03Um, which is a code word for can you find a grant for me to get a range built? But can you explain more how, um, once the section 123 of the explorer act is fully implemented? Uh, how that will allow even more accessibility and nearby shooting ranges. Um, sure. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, for that question. Thank you for everything you do in the congressional sportsmen's caucus.
▶ 1:35:30I think the first initial answer is just expanding access opportunities for people, regardless of where you live in the country. And in the case of shooting ranges and shooting ranges, one of the things that we need to look at is making these things more accessible, and not just shooting and having to climb down a mountainside and drag all your gear in to go target shoot. But having somewhere where you can pull your truck or your car aside and have a designated range there to bring kids, bring disabled individuals out and get them target shooting.
▶ 1:35:55And, uh, I think what I would recommend to your, to the folks in arkansas is to reach out to their respective state fish and wildlife agency and talk to them about leveraging pittman-robertson dollars to build some of these on the ground shooting ranges. >> thank you. And as I said, I had a lot more questions. I knew I wouldn't get to ask them all, but thanks to all the witnesses and I yield back. >> gentleman's time has expired and I'll recognize miss leger fernandez for her questioning. >> thank you very much, chair.
▶ 1:36:24And I mean, I'm looking now and this is kind of these are my people, right? It's just so wonderful. Um, the both the explorer act and for all of you do, uh, I come from a state that relies heavily on outdoor recreation. I come from a family where we have all been involved. Uh, director curry and my son lived in moab, utah, uh, because he was a river guide. Right.
▶ 1:36:50And and the stories he would tell, uh, and it led to him seeking out the career he did because he took a hydrologist down the river, and he said, ah, that's what I want to do. And I had a marvelous time. Uh, I actually got to manage the bill on the floor, uh, when we passed it. And it was a celebration. It was a bipartisan celebration. But the reality is, we also have to come back to this moment and say, what do we need to do next?
▶ 1:37:20And one of the things that I heard and read in this testimony was the issue about staffing. And I think that it is important to bring it up again, because when we went up to the tetons and listen to them there, it was an issue about staffing because we cannot get the regulations in place. We cannot get the trails built. If you don't actually have boots on the ground or people on the desk.
▶ 1:37:47Um, and, uh, miss turner, it's really important to address small businesses get taken advantage of the outdoor. Why is it important to actually have, uh, federal service federal agencies, whether it's the park service, the forest service also on the ground, uh, for this to to to accomplish this. >> thank you for the question. And thank you for your oversight on the floor. That was really fun to watch, too.
▶ 1:38:16We were all very excited a year ago. Um, small businesses are the backbone of the recreation economy. They're also the backbone of these gateway communities. And I can't say enough about how our businesses are no different than any other industry. We need certainty. There's so much in here that provides certainty. Uh, modernized infrastructure, modernized data, modernized planning. Um, you know, the soar act that that guides and outfitters are going to get an answer. It might be no, but they're going to get an answer.
▶ 1:38:43And I think with your, you know, pertaining to your question about agencies working together on the ground, there was a time not long ago when to run a river trip, you had to go through four different agencies to get a permit. And this is a small mom and pop guide and outfitter who probably has one person to do that. And they're on the river half the season. Now that's one agency. Not only does that help our businesses run their business, hire more people who can actually be guiding, but it helps the agencies. That means only one agency has to process that permit.
▶ 1:39:10So when we're thinking about small businesses working better, it also means the agencies need to work better to have consistent policies across bureaus, consistent data across bureaus. And explorer does all of that. I think, you know, relationship to the park act, uh, mountain guides and climbers now know that their livelihood, which often depends on these climbing routes, will be maintained. The bolt act getting more long distance bike trails. Think about the appalachian trail does to those communities. >> thank you very much.
▶ 1:39:36But you also then actually need to have the person at the agency employed to be able to approve, uh, the permits and stuff. >> yes. And hopefully one person can do it. Now we're modernizing that. >> so I want to get to another piece, because last night we were in the rules committee. We're going to be, uh, discussing, uh, a bill on the floor this week, which is going to potentially open up mining right next to the boundary waters.
▶ 1:40:03And we also had an effort to sell off public land, uh, and doing the, uh, one big, beautiful bill. And I think that there is a theme about if we are going to promote outdoor recreation, we actually need public lands to do so and to protect those public lands, whether maintaining ownership of them or protect them from, uh, potential mineral spills or other such stuff. Mr.
▶ 1:40:29Altman, can you talk about the importance of making sure that we actually have public lands available and kept in a, uh, environmentally sound manner? >> thank you so much for the question. Um, public lands are foundational to the outdoor recreation experience for the kind of adventurous outdoor sports that we represent there, the literal infrastructure of the outdoor recreation economy.
▶ 1:41:00They are a core, um, a core identity issue for the people who who set their lives up around recreating in the outdoors. And, you know, I think, you know, Mr. turner talked about the importance of certainty.
▶ 1:41:16And I think that also applies, you know, certainly to the existence of public lands, but also to the protections that everyone relies on to ensure that these places that people want to spend time or protected, you know, maintain their esthetic qualities are well managed. It's just it's everything.
▶ 1:41:35And we had, um, obviously some very concerning conversations around public lands, sell offs during the reconciliation conversation earlier this year. And I'm super grateful to the bipartisan support for keeping public lands public, for the work of the public lands caucus and for everyone who stood up for that core foundational issue. >> right.
▶ 1:42:04I can't see any of this happening in a way that small business could afford anybody else. If you were having to pay for access, if those lands got privatized, uh, would that my time has expired and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. chair. >> gentlelady's. Time has expired, and I'll turn to Mr. kennedy from utah for your questioning. >> thank you, Mr. chair. And thank you to all of our witnesses for coming all the way here. Um, this is public land as well that we're sitting in. It's not as enjoyable, nor is it medicine.
▶ 1:42:30Um, it's not therapeutic necessarily to be on the capitol hill, but we're grateful to be. Have you here and the economic driver in utah. And, director curry, I'd like to start with you and probably continue with you, as far as we know that these lands, when they're well maintained, that they can not only bless the lives of our citizens, but also generate outstanding amounts of money. $1.2 trillion is what we're talking about in this committee. Uh, director curry, thanks for being here.
▶ 1:42:55What is the economic impact of our the use of our federal lands and the state of utah specifically? >> thank you, congressman kennedy. Um, well, to reference justice early, earlier statement, um, 351 million. Is that what it was per day? Um, nationally. So it's it's significant.
▶ 1:43:18There's a balance we do have, especially in a state like utah where we've got, um, you know, like I said, two thirds our lands are federally managed, which, which if you boil it down to the recreation use, it's probably more like 90% of our recreation use is happening on those federal lands. So, uh, the infrastructure is there. It's great to be able to go on, on public lands, and most of them are free for service. Blm, um, a lot of those are free to access or very low cost.
▶ 1:43:44Um, we do have state parks in utah, and our state parks division does an amazing job. And and as far as the economic impact goes, um, what you said about the infrastructure and the quality of those, those visitor experiences is key balance. We have some opportunities before us with our good neighbor authority and our shared stewardship agreement to have state parks and the state of utah cooperate with the forest service to co-manage some of those lands to bring the infrastructure up to that level. Right now, our state parks are constantly booked out.
▶ 1:44:12And so I think we're we're a little bit out of balance, and we have an opportunity before us to to partner alongside the forest service and help with the funding side of things and with the management side to to make those opportunities generate more for their gateway communities. >> thanks for that statement. And can you expand on how the explore act has been helpful to allow utah state leaders to to organize and coordinate with our federal colleagues?
▶ 1:44:40>> yeah, well, as I said, two weeks ago, we were able to sign a shared stewardship agreement. So it you know, it's official a formal agreement for us to in the next 120 days, identify at least one recreation project to collaborate with. And that includes both the division of outdoor recreation. And as I said, our state parks division. And, uh, so things like as simple as volunteer work, we're able to better coordinate volunteer groups.
▶ 1:45:06And the desire, strong desire that they have to work within federal lands to do everything from trail maintenance to hosting and you name it, they they want to be part of that. Um, and so as we evaluate a resolution in our state legislature that is that just went live yesterday to evaluate several pieces of, of forest service land and blm land that the state could enter into a co-management agreement with. And they're all over the state. And I see that as being the future.
▶ 1:45:35We talked a lot in here about funding and funding cuts. And with $38 trillion debt, we have to make some really difficult decisions. I know what I love, I love the outdoors, I love outdoor recreation infrastructure. And I think the key to making up some of that difference is, is in the states.
▶ 1:45:50And having shared stewardship and good neighbor authority agreements so that a state like utah, that right now we're providing more than $50 million in state funding, and most of that is taking place on on these federal lands to improve trails, to improve access and install infrastructure like restrooms, parking lots, boat docks, boat launch ramps, and things like that. >> for you and miss turner. Both of you testified about the medicinal nature of our outdoor access and the recreational aspects.
▶ 1:46:17I'd like you both to comment briefly with the remaining time that I have and how you've actually seen that, because I've seen that with my family. I was I have been a scout leader, and bringing young people particularly into these areas is therapeutic. When they do hard things and they can see and feel the accomplishment of doing those things. And I'm thinking of angels landing. It's remarkable to go to zion national park and get to the top of angels landing, which is it can be a life threatening event just to be there.
▶ 1:46:43But when people go to places like that, they can't help but be inspired and naturally have mental and physical benefits. So first director curry and then miss turner. If each one of you would just give brief statements about the therapeutic benefits associated with our outdoor recreation. >> we're in absolute crisis when it comes to mental health of our young people. Um, this is something I feel most strongly about in my work. It's the thing I take most seriously.
▶ 1:47:10Um, we need young people to experience that sense of awe that you referenced in those challenges. There is something that happens inside of them when they're outdoors. That that is is absolute medicine. We've seen it time and time again, both anecdotally and in research. >> I think personally, um, I have to be outside every day or go crazy. So we'll be doing that after. It's a little cold now.
▶ 1:47:30And and professionally, I've met so many people whose lives have been changed and saved by the outdoors, specifically veterans coming back with ptsd, tbi, uh, getting in a climbing organization, getting in a hiking group has literally saved their lives. We've seen fishing and hunting with similar benefits and, um, young people at risk. Um, there's a great study of, of or so it's mental, physical, but it's also understanding things bigger than yourself, taking, um, gang members out on a river trip and getting whitewater rapids and seeing stars for the first time.
▶ 1:48:00They went back and it changed their lives. They saw that there's something more dangerous than the guy next to them. They need to work together to get through that river. And their whole physiology changed when they were outside, and they continued that through their schooling. So we're excited to work on this more with this committee and hopefully congress. >> thank you for your testimony. My time has expired and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. chair. >> gentleman's time has expired. I'm going to take a couple of minutes for questioning. So I owned a dinner and excursion boat, wilderness cruises, that access public lands in northern wisconsin for 20 years.
▶ 1:48:28And, uh, the one thing that we really sought to have was clear rules and reasonable permitting. And if we had that, um, it really made operating our business much easier. And we had the great privilege of being in one of the real remote areas in northern wisconsin and, um, nothing but a privilege to having done that for 20 years. And, uh, so, um, Mr.
▶ 1:48:49Curry, I'm assuming that you communicate with your colleagues and other states in regards to this and, um, uh, tell me, what is their response to these changes with exploring some of the other changes that have happened? What are they saying in regards to the states stepping up? >> thank you for that question. Um, overwhelmingly positive. There's a lot of excitement.
▶ 1:49:13In fact, um, just last month, all outfitters and guides, um, gathered in salt lake city for the america outdoors conference, an annual conference that they all get together. And there was aa1 session about explore act implementation specifically with permitting. And that was by far one of the most, uh, question filled and just a lot of buzz and excitement, even after the session was over, a lot of questions, uh, they had representatives there from, uh, forest service, blm and national park service.
▶ 1:49:39A lot of excitement over, over the changes in the consistency, especially I've heard that more in my job than any other topic is why are things so inconsistent and so cumbersome when it comes to permitting for guiding and outfitting? >> are you seeing some creativity from them in suggesting, hey, um, could we take, uh, do use different alternatives to be able to reach our goals? >> um, yeah. I think the, uh, the blm, if I'm remembering correctly, raptor, the raptor system, electronic system that forest service is looking to to also use.
▶ 1:50:09I think that would be leaps and bounds ahead of where we are now. >> Mr. schmitz, um, talk a little bit about the real possibilities with good neighbor authority. I know I was really excited when we did it on the forestry side a decade ago. I was in the state legislature and was really highlighting, um, what was happening with our national forest in the state of wisconsin. Really appreciated the congress at the time taking action. And we were one of the most aggressive states in wisconsin using that authority.
▶ 1:50:39Um, tell us what you see as the great possibilities there. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, for that question. It's a great question. From the ngo standpoint. We stand ready and willing to work with our federal agency partners to deliver this on the ground habitat and access work. And in the case of good neighbor authority, from a hunting perspective, wildlife require good habitats and in many cases, the best way to deliver good habitats is active forest management, whether it's elk, whether it's grouse, whether it's wild turkey, what have you.
▶ 1:51:06But also non-game species like the kirtland's warbler, um, and countless others. And from a sportsman's standpoint, again, active forest management is critical to everything we do. I go up every year to a great lakes state. I won't say which state, because I think I'll be disinvited on the trip next year to grouse and woodcock hunt. And we're going up to actively manage forests that are cut and intensely managed. And we are going there. We're pumping thousands of dollars into the local economy for the handful of days that we're there, and we want to be going up there. If it wasn't for actively managed forests.
▶ 1:51:36So being able to leverage things like g and a are critical to not only increasing wildlife habitat, but also sportsman's access. >> I'm assuming you guys are really focused on access to our public lands, is that correct? Yes, sir. And there was a major initiative, I think, announced last week by secretary burgum. Um, do you see some opportunity there? >> yes, sir. We do. And we applaud secretary burgum for issuing that secretary order.
▶ 1:52:00It's really the first of its kind in terms of a comprehensive secretary order to increase hunting and fishing access across our public lands, and at a time when access continues to be a challenge for sportsmen and women across the country. That secretary order is an important step, and we look forward to working with him to see that order implemented.
▶ 1:52:17>> yeah, I thought so too, because this subcommittee did a hearing a year or two ago, um, in northern wisconsin in regards to access, after hearing from state legislators as well as just private citizens, really frustrated about more and more areas being blocked off that the public could not recreate on that, they used to, um, that they had been accessing for decades.
▶ 1:52:36And so it's really a breath of fresh air to see this, that we are seeing, um, this whole thing in regards to access, because I think you captured it quite well when you said this is about for sportsmen, it's about opportunity and it's about access, and you got to have both in order to be able to do that on these public lands. And it's been going on for a long time. There's been a lot of restrictions put in place the last few decades that have been unnecessary and taken away that opportunity from the public.
▶ 1:53:04It's great to see some of that being reversed at this point. So anyhow, I just want to thank all of our witnesses for your testimony and members for your questions. Uh, members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for you, and we'll ask that the witnesses that you respond to, those in writing under committee rule three, members of the subcommittee must submit questions to the subcommittee clerk by 5 p.m. On monday, january 26th, 2026.
▶ 1:53:30The hearing record will be held open for ten days, ten business days for those responses. If there is no further business. Without objection, the subcommittee on federal lands stands adjourned.