▶ 0:12:30We'll give him a second. Hey, Sherry. How you doing, Sherry? Great testimony. Thank you. Okay. All right. Dr. McCormack, welcome. I think we're going to go ahead and get started here. The committee will now come to order. Uh without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recesses of the committee at any time.
▶ 0:12:54Members are reminded that this committee's practice is to submit letters and other items for the record to the committee before seeking UC to insert such items into the hearing record. This allows the committee to ensure that such items meet the rules of decorum and verify their length and provenence and that they do not contain sensitive, proprietary, or controlled information. The chair reserves the right to object to any UC request to insert items into the record that are not provided in advance.
▶ 0:13:24Welcome to today's hearing entitled Assessing US Leadership in Quantum Science and Technology. I recognize myself now for five minutes for an opening statement. Thank you for joining us today uh in our hearing assessing US leadership in quantum science and technology. I would like to thank our esteemed panel of witnesses for being here this morning and their continued service to the federal science enterprise.
▶ 0:13:53We're looking very much forward to your testimony. The Trump administration has identified quantum science, technology, and engineering as a top research and development priority and the core pillar of US scientific leadership. President Trump's first term marked a turning point in federal quantum policy with the enactment of the National Quantum Initiative Act, elevating quantum to a national focus.
▶ 0:14:20These investments reflect a long-term strategy for American innovation and quantum science, technology, and engineering, and I remain committed to working closely with this administration to carry these priorities forward. The federal government plays a central role in supporting fundamental research, largecale infrastructure, and addressing the long-term challenges that drive innovation in quantum science.
▶ 0:14:45These investments lay the foundation for breakthroughs in quantum computing, sensing, and communications. The private sector then plays a vital role in translating those breakthroughs into scalable and commercially viable As quantum technologies mature, maintaining US leadership will require sustained investment and fundamental research and progress on key engineering challenges and development of the enabling technologies that support
▶ 0:15:16broader quantum e the broader quantum ecosystem. This includes strengthening research consortia and uh expanding test beds and infrastructure, improving advanced manufacturing and ensuring quantum systems can be deployed in real world environments. Quantum science also has direct implications for national security and cyber security.
▶ 0:15:41Preparing for postquantum cryptography and defending against emerging cyber threats will be absolutely essential as these uh technologies evolve. With adversaries around the world investing heavily in quantum capabilities, the United States cannot afford to fall behind in the global race to quantum supremacy. The National Institute of Standards and Technology or NIS has played a leading role in securing our postquantum future.
▶ 0:16:10In August of 2024, NIST published its first set of postquantum crypto cryptography standards to safeguard a wide range of digital information from sensitive government communications to everyday ecommerce transactions against quantum enabled cyber threats.
▶ 0:16:29This milestone builds on decades of expertise in measurement science and information technology and provides essential tools and standards for a secure quantum enabled future. And while national air the national aeronautics and space administration is not a formal member of uh national quantum initiative the the agency has made meaningful contributions through targeted investments.
▶ 0:16:56NASA has pursued quantum enabled technologies for space science and precision measurement, developing tools and instruments that push the boundaries of fundamental physics and address complex computational challenges.
▶ 0:17:10The Department of Energy is also driving progress in quantum science through initiatives such as the Genesis mission and the newly established office of artificial intelligence and quantum while supporting research across quantum computing, sensing, material science, and fundamental physics. Like many emerging technology sectors, the quantum industry faces a growing demand for skilled talent.
▶ 0:17:36The National Science Foundation and DOE Quantum Centers established under the quantum national quantum initiative act have made significant strides and developing educational programs, training initiatives and industry partnerships to help meet workforce needs. These efforts depend on sustained federal support and I welcome the opportunity to hear from our witnesses today about the work that is underway.
▶ 0:18:03Both my staff and ranking member Lafrren staff are working collaboratively on a bipartisan reauthorization of the national quantum initiative. This effort seeks to reinforce US leadership in quantum science technology and engineering, address workforce challenges, and accelerate commercialization. Today's discussion will inform and guide our legislative work.
▶ 0:18:28I am interested in our witnesses recommendations uh on how Congress can strengthen the National Quantum Initiative over the next five years. I want to thank you again witnesses for being here today. I'm looking forward to a productive discussion and I yield back and I would now like to recognize a ranking member of the full committee uh Representative Lorren of California for five minutes. Well, uh, thank you, Chairman Babin, for today's hearing, and I'd also like to welcome our panel of distinguished witnesses.
▶ 0:18:58For years, the United States enjoyed being the global leader in quantum information science uh, in terms of both research output and investment across every quantum application and modality. Our leadership was built upon a foundation of investments and efforts at every level in academia, uh, industry and our federal government. The US government has been the primary supporter of openly published quantum research totaling nearly $1 billion in investments in 2023.
▶ 0:19:30However, we're now facing a peer competitor to the United States in quantum applications. In 2024, the Chinese Communist Party invested more than four times what the United States did in quantum uh R&D.
▶ 0:19:44In 2025, the CCP announced a$138 billion dollar fund to support their public private partnerships in emerging technologies including quantum computing and in terms of quality of research and technology development, China has caught up. Uh Chinese industry leads in certain global market segments including quantum communications. Now, US leadership in quantum technology stands, I think, at an inflection point.
▶ 0:20:14We can renew our commitment to leadership through actions, not just words. Or we can be left behind. To start, it's critically important for this committee to take up a reauthorization of the National Quantum Initiative Act. And as the chairman has just said, we're excited to be working together on this bill. And I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership in this matter. Uh maintaining global leadership in quantum technology also requires us to avoid getting in our own way.
▶ 0:20:44really the the chaos that we're seeing in our federal government right now only emboldens our adversaries. If we're going to win the race on quantum, we need each of our federal agencies, including the National Science Foundation, National Institute of Standards and Technology, the Department of Energy, and NASA to be fully staffed and resourced.
▶ 0:21:05Congress fortunately rejected the Trump administration's destructive budget proposal and provided strong support for the agency's uh critical to US quantum leadership. And I hope the president's fiscal year 2027 budget request is not a repeat of this year's. If we're going to win the race on quantum, we can't only fund programs with quantum in their name. Many fields and disciplines make up the backbone of US quantum research and the quantum workforce.
▶ 0:21:34A cut to physics is a cut to quantum. A cut a cut to mathematics is a cut to quantum. A cut to engineering is a cut to quantum. We need more federal support to generate interest in these feeder fields, not less. If we're going to win the race on quantum, the United States must have a quantum capable workforce. Unfortunately, the Trump administration is simultaneously turning away foreign talent while also cancelling programs to train domestic talent.
▶ 0:22:03During our previous quantum hearing, I highlighted several quantum workforce programs at universities across the country that had their grants terminated. And since that time, the administration has increased pressure on foreign talent through visa fees, rejections, and intimidation. If the United States is not the destination of global quantum talent, then other nations certainly will be.
▶ 0:22:27Finally, if we're to win the race on quantum, we have to address the severe supply chain challenges that are preventing industry and academia from building quantum machines in America. The president's unilateral and I think likely illegal imposition of tariffs have created additional costs and vulnerabilities for new and innovative domestic industries like the quantum industry.
▶ 0:22:50Quantum supply chains are thin and oftentimes the only suppliers of critical equipment and critical materials are offshore. Tariffs on this equipment doesn't help American manufacturers. It hurts them. My staff talked to one quantum company last year that had to pay a sevenf figure tariff on a single piece of equipment from Europe. And the chaotic manner the administration has approached terrorist pol tariff policy has made this worse.
▶ 0:23:17Just the other day, uh, President Trump threatened additional tariffs on Europe because of his weird Greenland obsession. And then yesterday, he appeared to back off on that. This chaos is forcing quantum startups to question whether America can be a reliable base of manufacturing. I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to address the challenges facing our quantum industry and hopefully to find a more willing partner in the executive branch in this endeavor.
▶ 0:23:46I look forward to hearing from the witnesses about these challenges uh and others during today's hearing and I want to thank you Mr. Chairman and my time is exper I yield back.
▶ 0:23:56Yes, ma'am. I want to thank you. Uh now I'd like to introduce our our witnesses for for today and our first witness today is Dr. James Kushik. Is that the way you pronounce it right? Yes, sir. Director of the physical measurement laboratory at the National Institute of Standards and Technology. Welcome. Our second witness is Dr. Saul Gonzalez, a deputy directorate head of the directorate for mathematical and physical sciences at the National Science Foundation. Welcome.
▶ 0:24:26Thank you for being here. Then our third witness uh is Dr. Mark Clampen, deputy associate administer for the science mission director at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Good to see you again. We appreciate your uh service. And then our final uh witness is Dr. Tanner Crowder. uh quantum information science lead for the office of science at the US department of energy. Welcome. I now recognize Dr. Kushik for five minutes to present your your testimony.
▶ 0:24:55Sir, you're now recognized.
▶ 0:24:58Chairman Babin, ranking member Lafrren and members of the committee. I am Dr. James Kusher, director of the physical measurement laboratory at the National Institute of Standards and Technology or NIST. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss NIT's leading role in advancing quantum information science and technology. This hearing comes at a critical time. We are in a fierce international competition for continued leadership in quantum information science with countries like China making significant investments in quantum research and development.
▶ 0:25:26The US cannot afford to take its foot off the gas. Quantum science is the epitome of precision measurements and thus NIST has been a leader in quantum science research for over 50 years. NIST's premier contributions in quantum science have even been recognized by four Nobel Prizes in physics. Our long history of foundational research has made NIS the world's leading institute for quantum technologies.
▶ 0:25:48Technology spun off from NIS research has seated America's quantum industry ranging from large corporations to startups producing key technology platforms that are driving today's emerging quantum industry. NIST actively contributes to and facilitates US industry engagement in the standardization of quantum technologies including administering the US technical advisory group on quantum technologies.
▶ 0:26:12Additionally, NIS played a leading role in establishing NMIQ, a global initiative consisting of the national metrology institutes from the G7 countries in Australia. The National Quantum Initiative known as NQI recognized the importance of quantum information science and technology. Through the NQI, NIST has nearly doubled the size of its quantum portfolio, increasing research, coordination efforts between NIST and other agencies and redoubling efforts and training of a quantum ready workforce.
▶ 0:26:41NIST's research programs have shaped and trained a significant portion of today's quantum Further, as directed in the founding NQI legislation, NIST established the industry-ledd quantum economic development consortium QEDC. The QEDC is the primary vehicle for industry to come together to identify and address roadblocks for the commercialization of quantum technologies in the US.
▶ 0:27:06To maintain American leadership, we need to continue to prioritize fundamental research, infrastructure, and applied research to develop and scale quantum technologies. Quantum computing, the most anticipated use of quantum technology, will be able to solve problems beyond today's classical computers and affect nearly every sector.
▶ 0:27:26However, the power of quantum computing in an adversar's hands also threatens public key encryption, which underpins secure, trusted digital In 2024, NIST released the first three postquantum encryption standards, ushering in a new age of cyber security and laying the foundation to protect trillions of dollars in global commerce.
▶ 0:27:45NIS given our unique expertise of working with industry throughout the R&D pipeline can unleash the economic benefits and competitive advantages of US businesses by adopting an acceleration model focused on the manufacturing of new quantum sensors, manufacturing of scalable high performance quantum components and development of quantum networks including deployed quantum talks.
▶ 0:28:08With his holistic approach, NIST will enhance its core research and standards program by developing quantum technologies and conducting fundamental research in quantum sensing and quantum computing with the goal of identifying and eliminating roadblocks for practical deployment. At the same time, NIST will create accelerators, adaptive and flexible industry partnerships to rapidly develop and manufacture quantum and quantum enabling commercial products.
▶ 0:28:34This effort will utilize co-development with industry to overcome major engineering challenges and manufacturing barriers that limit the current performance, scalability, and commercial viability of quantum industry products. Thanks to the wealth of fundamental research knowledge, the American entrepreneurial spirit and the NQI, the US is a global leader in quantum technologies. While the nation is currently in a strong position, we cannot afford to be complacent in the face of global competition.
▶ 0:29:02With the reauthorization of the NQI and continued strong congressional support for NIS research, we will ensure sustained US leadership in this rapidly developing sector and ultimately win the quantum race. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on N's activities and I look forward to answering any questions.
▶ 0:29:20Thank you, Dr. Kusher. Appreciate it. Now, I'd like to recognize Dr. Gonzalez for five minutes to present his testimony. Thank you, Chairman Babin, Ranking Member Lorren, and members of the committee. I'm Dr. Saul Gonzalez, uh, deputy director head for the mathematical and phys physical sciences directorate at the US National Science Foundation, where I help lead NSF-wide efforts in quantum information science.
▶ 0:29:46It's an honor to be with you today to discuss the vital role has played in the many exciting advancements in QIS, how these efforts have been bolstered by the National Quantum Initiative Act, and how we continue to push the frontiers of The work is done in close collaborations with partners across a federal research enterprise, including through the NQI established NSDC subcommittee for QIS, which NSF co-chairs.
▶ 0:30:12This subcommittee brings together relevant agencies including the four represented here Progress depends on our shared long-term vision and no single agency, sector or institution can build the quantum future alone. The 2018 NQI recognized the urgency of maintaining US global global leadership in QIS and its applications and technologies.
▶ 0:30:37That urgency has only grown over time as a global race has accelerated fuel in part by the ambitions of our global adversaries such as China. The US has the ability, the talent and the infrastructure to not simply maintain but to grow our leadership across all critical and emerging technologies.
▶ 0:30:55And at NSF, we consider this a c a core part of our mission and an economic and national security NSF supports research ac across all fields of STEM and at all levels of STEM education. Our investments through your groundbreaking discoveries accelerate translation of research results to the market and support the US workforce.
▶ 0:31:17Our multiddisciplinary approach is not only well suited to QIS but also to other emerging technologies like AI and Early NSF investments in QIS have been critical for US leadership and have laid the foundation for the second quantum revolution that is now taking place. Not only has that foundation fueled numerous Nobel prizes, but it has built a community of thousands that is now founding companies that contribute billions of dollars to the US economy.
▶ 0:31:47With decades of prior investment to build upon, NSF was well positioned to contribute to opportunities presented by the 2018 NQI act. NS NSF's vision under the NQI is focused on three goals. Expand our fundamental understanding of quantum phenomena and systems. Deliver integrated proof of concept devices, applications, and tools that show quantum advantage. And build and support a quantum smart workforce.
▶ 0:32:16NSF's accomplishments under the NQI include the establishment of five large multiddisciplinary centers focused on addressing major challenges in computing, in sensing and networking. NSF is also establishing a nationwide infrastructure platform for testing, piloting and prototyping quantum technologies with a focus on atscale demonstrations. These platforms are designed to derisk and smooth the transition from basic science and engineering to the market.
▶ 0:32:46We continue for innovative ways to accelerate translation from lab to market and to grow the American STEM workforce. For instance, in the NSF engines programs, two finalists in the current competition are advancing QIS to drive regional economic growth and job Since 2018, our efforts have nearly doubled the number of faculty and students working on NSF QIS projects, and still the supply of talent is not keeping up with industry's demand.
▶ 0:33:15As I conclude my remarks, I think it's appropriate to offer an analogy to the incredible advances we've seen in artificial intelligence. It took decades of research to develop the breakthroughs necessary to turn AI into the half trillion dollar market that it is today. We are at a similar inflection point in QIS. Technological developments in QIS have accelerated recently and we could be just a few breakthroughs away from a major transformation in this field as well.
▶ 0:33:45The NQI provided a solid foundation for how the US can win the global race for quantum technology future. Calling upon NSF to leverage our unique collaborative multi-disiplinary approach to accelerate fundamental research, pioneer new applications, fuel trans uh translation transformational solutions and foster the talent that makes these innovations possible. NSF is committed to these efforts alongside our partners across the inter agency and in in collaboration with Congress and this committee.
▶ 0:34:16Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and I look forward to your
▶ 0:34:21Thank you Dr. Gonzalez. Now I'd like to recognize Dr. Clampen, your recognizer. Thank you.
▶ 0:34:33I am Dr. Mark Clampin, deputy associate administrator of NASA's science mission directorate. NASA is at the forefront of putting quantum science into action in both quantum computing and quantum sensing. The agency leverages the unique environment of space to drive quantum space breakthroughs. These advanced technological innovations such as navigation, computing, communications, and scientific discovery.
▶ 0:34:59NASA is especially focused on quantum sensing to address its exploration and scientific um opportunities. Quantum sensing is not new to NASA. As early as 1964, NASA's Mariner 4 was the first US mission to fly a quantum sensor and optically pumped vector magnome vector magnetometer.
▶ 0:35:19We use vector magnetometers to tell us which way the magnetic field points and its strength to study planetary uh magnetic fields, solar wind interactions and space weather. So Mariner 4 was the first spacecraft to explore Mars and gave humanity its first close-up glimpse of another planet, setting a standard for US leadership in this scientific area. Just recently, NASA flew on the Chrism X-ray astrophysics mission the first imaging quantum sensor.
▶ 0:35:47This sensor is known as a microc calorimeter and was developed by the guarded spaceflight center. It measures photon energy so precisely that it's ideal for applications like X-ray astronomy where it helps NASA better understand the nature of black holes, neutron stars, and galaxy clusters. NASA is at the tip of the arrow for America's advanced technology strategy for quantum sensing space applications. It's our job to go first and confront the hardest technical problems and create applications.
▶ 0:36:17We partner with industry, other government agencies, and universities to take US quantum technology even further. We pioneer their use and also minimize risk so that the United States private sector can then adopt and scale them. By developing these technologies to solve exquisitly difficult problems, NASA ensures that there's a sustained pipeline of innovation for new space-based missions and industry that will achieve our agency objectives for the benefit of all.
▶ 0:36:47Also, while helping to keep our astronauts and spacecraft safe and uh operating in space. I want to emphasize especially that NASA develops quantum science um for use in sensing applications. Another example is our cold atom laboratory which has been on the international space station since 2018. The international space station is and has been the world's premier sciencebased uh laboratory.
▶ 0:37:14It allows scientists working with astronauts for example to examine Bose Einstein condensates a unique state of matter at temperatures just above absolute zero. Studying cold atom physics is really a key to uh the building block in developing next generation quantum sensors. Today NASA is building on the knowledge we learned from the cold atom lab to fly a space instrument that can sense earth's gravity 10 times better than anything we have today.
▶ 0:37:43A quantum gravity gradometer that relies on a technique called atom interrometry. By studying the ultrarecise measurements of the Earth's gravitational changes, NASA will be able to map precisely where water is and isn't and better support applications such as drought monitoring, water management, and the determinant determination of flood potential across the globe.
▶ 0:38:05This is just one of several areas across NASA sciences where the agency sees exciting prospects for disruptive advances as we prepare to send humanity on its journey to the moon and onwards to Mars. and then beyond for the first time in our history. I look forward to seeing how quantum science will play a major role in ensuring that both astronauts and spacecraft are protected and thriving on their journeys to the extreme environments beyond our home planet. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I welcome your questions.
▶ 0:38:35Thank you, sir. And now I'd like to recognize Dr. Crowder for five minutes.
▶ 0:38:41Good morning, Chairman Babin, Member Lorren, and esteemed members of this committee. I'm honored to appear before you today to discuss quantum information science technology and the transformative role that it plays across the department of energy's portfolio. This field is deeply important to both the department and our national prosperity. I'm grateful and appreciated appreciative of this committee's continued support for the advancement of this field as well as science and technology broadly.
▶ 0:39:04I'm Tanner Crowder and for nearly 20 years I've worked in this field as a federal researcher, senior policy adviser and now quantum information science lead and senior adviser in the office of science department of energy. Our work in quantum information science technology spans the DOE programs and includes the advancement of fundamental science, quantum computing, quantum sensing and quantum communications and networking. The DOE brings unique resources and a team science approach to secure American dominance in this field.
▶ 0:39:29Leveraging our suite of user facilities and some of the most advanced technologies and computational abilities available to the American research and industrial ecosystem. The National Quantum Initiative Act was a significant milestone for American leadership in science technology. This legislation delivered a national strategy, mobilized dedicated and sustained departmental efforts, and launched several new centercale flagship activities. DOE established five multi-disiplinary national QIS research centers in response to the NQI act.
▶ 0:39:57Each center is led by a national lab and collectively they bring together academic institutions, industrial partners and drive discovery. In the first five years, the DOE centers laid the groundwork to deliver scientific breakthroughs across high energy physics, material science, computing and networking, and biosciences. Last November, the department renewed its commitment to the centers to accelerate the advancement of quantum technologies and tackle larger scale focused research efforts with a high potential to unlock new possibilities in both technological development and basic science.
▶ 0:40:27In addition to the centers, DOE advances quantum information science technology through its core research programs, test beds, and user facilities. The DOE's portfolio builds a foundation for the exploration of quantum information science technology and acts as a powerful catalyst for the entire ecosystem addressing key roadblocks to quantum utility.
▶ 0:40:44As a result of the federal investments and sustained support from this committee and Congress, American quantum technology community is embarking on a new chapter, one that in addition to supporting fundamental R&D can drive capabilities such as quantum ccentric supercomputers that will provide a paradigm shift for exploring new scientific frontiers. Delivering these novel capabilities involves substantial infrastructure and technical expertise from quantum information scientists and engineers as well as domain scientists that will use this new technology.
▶ 0:41:12Maturing quantum technologies into fully functional scientific instruments for America will require careful coordination among federal agencies, scientists, engineers, manufacturers, and industrial performers. This effort will explore new scientific discoveries, public private partnerships, and a robust supply chain. DOE is well positioned to support the development of these novel capabilities. Our national labs have multiddisciplinary experts that excel in balancing open science, proprietary R&D and national security missions.
▶ 0:41:40Together we have expertise and and infrastructure to bring first-of-akind scientific instruments and computing systems online maintain these systems and develop a broad user community. A whole of government's appro approach with the support from the DOE and the national labs to responsibly scale quantum computing technologies for scientific discovery would position America to lead in the convergence of quantum computing, artificial intelligence and high performance computing.
▶ 0:42:03Like the exoscale computing initiative, it would catalyze industrial efforts by setting clear targets and strategic guideposts to align the sector, stimulate competition, and forge public private partnerships to demonstrate the first generation of error corrected quantum ccentric supercomputers that can deliver scientific utility. This vision integrates with the recently launched Genesis mission to unleash a new age of AI and quantum accelerated innovation and discovery, solving the most challenging problems of this century.
▶ 0:42:30The resulting capabilities, talent and infrastructure will serve as a competitive differentiator, a stabilizing force and an incubator for American industry across all scales and achieve the ambitious goal of dramatically accelerating scientific discovery and to significantly increase the productivity and impact of R&D in America. Quantum information science and technology hold great potential to unlock a new era in American innovation and economic competitiveness, offering the promise to solve some of the world's most pressing challenges. The National Quantum Initiative Act recognized this great potential.
▶ 0:42:59Its reauthor authorization can usher in the next chapter ensuring that we maintain leadership and once again maximize the impact of the American scientific enterprise. The American government and DOE in particular can capitalize on decades of investment and innovation including those efforts initiated by the National Quantum Initiative Act. Chairman Babin, ranking member Lorren and members of this committee, thank you again for the opportunity to testify you before you today. I look forward to our discussion and answering your questions. Thank you, Dr. Crowder.
▶ 0:43:27Uh, some of you all may be wondering what all the the buzzers are about. They have just called votes. So, I'm going to recess this committee until uh be subject to the call of the chair until after votes. Thank you.
▶ 1:47:18the committee on science, space, and technology will now uh come back to Thank you. let's see. I want to also uh thank thank the witnesses for their uh their testimony. And now I want to recognize myself for five minutes for a series of questions. Uh Dr.
▶ 1:47:41Kushik, uh China is racing to shape global technology standards and advances in quantum computing could put existing cryptography methods at grave risk. How is NIST ensuring the US leads in postquantum cryptography standards and where are the biggest gaps in our readiness please? Thank you Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:48:05So as already discussed NIST released three standards postquantum cryptography standards which are known to be resistant to a quantum attack basically a shores algorithm attack. Um we are currently working to kind of in the international standards arena to create international standards so they can be adopted across the world. And and finally for domestic we're working with over 50 industry partners and other agencies to figure out the best way to deploy into our systems.
▶ 1:48:35So I think those are where we're really pushing right now.
▶ 1:48:37Okay. Thank you very much Dr. Clampen. Uh the Artemis 2 mission will soon launch uh sending astronauts around the moon for the first time in more than 50 years. However, the US is not alone in its interest in lunar exploration with China planning to send tyonauts to the moon by the end of this decade. How could quantum technology support these future missions? How is China's space program using quantum technology? And are there lessons the US should draw from that utilization?
▶ 1:49:08And if you want me to, I'll repeat those if you There's three of them. Okay. the um areas that NASA is working on that are in direct support of Arteimus and the expiration u objectives include uh what I would say are the quantum sensing applications and examples include position and navigation and that comes back to things like quantum quantum clocks
▶ 1:49:38and uh there are other areas such as uh quantum sensing uh imaging that I spoke of earlier where we can actually do remote sensing of the moon uh looking for specific minerals etc using this technology which allows us to image and obtain very detailed uh spectroscopic um foot fingerprints if you like of the moon's surface.
▶ 1:50:02In addition uh we're also working on uh gyros and uh that again is you know quantum sensors allow us to get much better performance from gyros that that we can get with conventional technologies and then also optical communications and optical communications use our um you know quantum sensors for the deep space
▶ 1:50:28Yes sir. And then how is China utilizing quantum technology? Well, we know that um I'm not going to talk about communication because I think you've heard about that u to a large extent. So, China is developing some of these same capabilities uh in particular gyros and position and navigation because they are very important uh if you're going to establish a permanent presence at the moon.
▶ 1:50:52Uh China does have a quantum communication satellite that was launched in 2016 called MYSUS that's been doing you know very uh very straightforward demonstrations of entanglement between space and ground. NASA is also doing similar experiments such as the seek experiment that we conducted on ISS.
▶ 1:51:16Okay. Thank you very much. Uh and Dr. Crowder. Uh, last month, this committee heard testimony from Under Secretary Gil on the Genesis mission and the establishment of the Office of AI and Quantum at DOE. How do these efforts avoid bureaucratic duplication and help accelerate progress toward the administration's quantum strategy?
▶ 1:51:39Yes, thank you for your question. Uh I want to f first start by saying I really look forward to how the Genesis mission will reinforce American leadership in quantum information science and AI and high performance computing. Uh the Genesis mission is meant to simultaneously build a platform uh while also constructing scientific and engineering challenges um in energy, national security and discovery science.
▶ 1:52:02uh the department um released its realignment plans to create uh to create these new offices and uh they will support quantum information science but also deliver capabilities to the nation. The office of science is going to continue to push the forefront of R&D while these offices uh deliver that
▶ 1:52:21Thank you. And Dr. Gonzalez, uh how is NSF partnering with other federal agencies to advance the administration's quantum priorities? So thank you for the question. Uh we partner in many ways. Uh we partner indirectly through the researchers that uh that we fund. That's that's a that's a big part of the partnership co use co-use of facilities and and things of that sort.
▶ 1:52:46And we also partner through the coordinate through the NSTC uh subcommittee and um which is a coordination body that you've that you've heard about. In addition, we have specific partnerships. We have partnership with NIH on quantum sensing uh and and so we we have the whole the whole gamut of partnerships.
▶ 1:53:08Thank you very much. Um and I'm out of time so uh our next recognize uh Representative Bonamichi from Oregon.
▶ 1:53:20Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the esteemed witnesses for being here and for your expertise. I I discern that at least two of the witnesses, half of the panel appear to be immigrants. And I just I want to thank you for exemplifying the contributions of immigrants to our economy, to our scientific enterprise, and to our communities. So, thank you. Quantum science, we know, will shape the next century of scientific discovery in the United States still holds a narrow lead.
▶ 1:53:45Whether we can hold on to that lead will depend on having people who are educated through sustained federal investments, students, technicians, engineers, and researchers. And at the same time, this administration talks about quantum dominance. It has slashed agency budgets, shed expert staff, froze frozen grants, and destabilize the workforce pipelines that quantum leadership requires. I'm a member of the education committee as well. Um, very concerned about what's happening with higher education.
▶ 1:54:13We can't win a global technology race by hollowing out the institutions that recruit, educate, and retain talent. So, Dr. Kush me n supports of course the quantum economic development consortium QEDC which convenes leaders to identify needs in the quantum workforce. So what specific workforce challenges pose the greatest threat to US quantum leadership right now and which of those can congress most easily and rapidly address?
▶ 1:54:39Thank you for the question. Um so yes the QEDC has pulled its members the industry the quantum industry directly to really understand where these challenges are. Um, and it's not just in quantum physicists kind of leading the efforts. It's really all the way through to engineers and technicians and people at all levels. So, I really think we need a whole of government effort to kind of increase the pipeline. I mean, we need to increase the pipeline and through certificates to degrees and other activities. Um so yeah I think that's where I would go
▶ 1:55:09and and reducing the cost of higher education is on on the list uh of many of my colleagues and myself uh because those doors of opportunity should be open to everyone who chooses to attend higher education. Dr. Gonzalez uh graduate physics enrollment fell sharply in 2025 and international students who make up a large share of the quantum pipeline are increasingly hesitant to study in the United States or to stay in the United States.
▶ 1:55:34So, I'm going to ask you, what will Quantum look like in the US 5 years from now if these delayed and frozen awards and agency staff staffing losses and reckless immigration and student visa policies continue?
▶ 1:55:48Uh, thank you for the question. Um I think that um for us quantum for the NSF quantum is a priority uh um for the agency and we'll do everything we can uh to keep it to to deliver on that priority.
▶ 1:56:06Um and um it is right now it's difficult to the first thing you mentioned about the the the the grad students uh to predict what that will look like in in a few years but it's not just physics that we need to bring into the fold this computer scientist engineers material scientists the whole the whole range of disciplines that uh that make quantum happen
▶ 1:56:36as you mentioned. I
▶ 1:56:37I I appreciate that. And if Congress does reauthorize a national quantum initiative, but the agencies lack the appropriate staff to manage the grants or to review proposals, what happens to those workforce pathways?
▶ 1:56:52So, we um we we one thing I will say about the NSF, we have great staff and uh we are resilient. we're adapting to the the change changing situation and so folks are are sort of contributing everything they can.
▶ 1:57:10I I appreciate that and and just again we need to open up those doors of opportunity uh to to higher education. Uh and that is something this administration has not made a priority. The higher education act back in the 1960s when President Johnson signed it talked about opening those doors. uh there's so much potential out there, but if people can't afford to get the education, they won't be able to join that important workforce. We know that quantum leadership grows from classrooms and laboratories and a workforce that can trust the federal government to show up consistently.
▶ 1:57:40And if we cut that funding, if we shed the expertise and if we destabilize these educational pipelines, talent will leave uh and competitors will surge ahead. So real leadership means investing in the people, protecting the scientific capacity, and matching our quantum ambitions with the resources we need to accomplish them. Thank you, and I yield
▶ 1:58:04Uh now, I'd like to recognize uh gentleman from Tennessee, Representative
▶ 1:58:10Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank this distinguished panel for being here today and a job well done. Uh before I go to my questions, I would like to make a statement. As most of you know, I represent the great people of the third district of Tennessee, including the greatest midsize city in America, Chattanooga. Um I would like to make a remark regarding the quantum work being done in my own district.
▶ 1:58:37Uh Chattanooga made history as the first city in America to launch a commercial quantum network. Chattanooga's leadership in applied quantum innovation is anchored by the electric power board's ownership and operation of a commercially available quantum computer developed in partnership with INQ and physically located in Chattanooga.
▶ 1:59:01These realworld assets support the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga in advancing workforce development and applied research through its quantum center, including hands-on access to a quantum networking node that allows students and researchers to train and operate in a live environment in parallel, creating quantum ecosystem that has led to recruiting a research commercialization partnership with Vanderbilt University that connects academic
▶ 1:59:31research to deployable market ready applications. Together, this model demonstrates how targeted federal investment can serve as a catalyst that allows regional quantum ecosystems like this one to grow faster, scale responsibly, and deliver real economic and workforce development. With that, Dr. Crowder, I'm going to ask you uh my first question.
▶ 1:59:55In past years, the Department of Energy has advertised funding opportunities through funding opportunity announcement, FOAS, or what we call lab calls, but these channels have been largely quiet this past year. How can stakeholders best keep informed of and respond to DOE opportunities? Thank you.
▶ 2:00:16Yes. Uh, thank you for your question. Um, the Department of Energy regularly puts out, uh, notice of funding opportunities. We have a couple of current ones open right now um or they maybe just recently closed. We also have an open call right now where we have added uh error correction of uh an error correction focus to our open call in the office of science. Um the best way to keep apprised of what we do is on our website.
▶ 2:00:43We post all of our um all of our calls on our website and usually put out press releases for them.
▶ 2:00:50Thank you. Uh a follow-up question, Oakidge, which is also in my district and is my heart, of course, has been a long leader in quantum computing and is working in the private sector to deliver quantum computing at useful scale.
▶ 2:01:05Nvidia recently delivered an NVL72 supercomput to Oakidge which will help quantum processors with error correction, accelerate algorithms and can even help stimulate a or sorry simulate a quantum computer with AI. Can you please speak to how AI high performance computing and quantum computers are working together to make quantum computing useful?
▶ 2:01:33Can you also talk why it is important that labs like the great lab at Oakidge National Laboratory uh and DOE work with the private sector on this issue? Thank you.
▶ 2:01:44Um yes, I I'd be happy to, Congressman. Thank you. Um first of all, I want to thank you for your leadership in QIS and uh of your support for Oakidge. Um there are really a myriad of ways that quantum and AI will work together. Um you mentioned a few of them yourself. uh they will it's it's very difficult to see what the end goal or what the end applications will ultimately be.
▶ 2:02:09There are some very promising ones that we see in the future and you mentioned a few of them like error correction, the search for quantum algorithms. Um, but the builders of the INIAC probably would have never thought that we'd be using computation today like we use it and you know we're able to order pizzas from our phones and it's just uh an extremely uh rapid acceleration but we see AI advancing uh for advancing quantum systems and we also see quantum systems advancing AI taking uh the output
▶ 2:02:39of these uh experiments and directing them right into the workflow of AI computers. Thank you very much. And once again, I commend the entire panel. And Mr. Chairman, I so appreciate your calling this hearing. It's most beneficial. I yield back.
▶ 2:02:54Thank you very much. And now, I'd like to recognize the uh uh Andy Stevens from great state of Michigan.
▶ 2:03:00Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And as uh Congressman Flechman uh reflected on his uh beloved Oakidge, you know, in in Michigan, we also envy the Tennessee Valley Authority and the energy resources that come along with it as we think about our quantum future. Uh we can't overlook uh energy needs and protecting consumers uh as well as national directives.
▶ 2:03:27And so I really also want to applaud uh Congresswoman Marcy Captor for her leadership and the Great Lakes authority to model what uh Mr. Flechman's district and so many of uh his stakeholders in Tennessee have with the the TVA. And of course, I also want to take a minute to to recognize each and every single one of you.
▶ 2:03:51your public service uh and dedication to this country's research missions as uh honorable and it is uh very meaningful and while recent events haven't always made it easy uh your contributions are certainly quite profound. Uh Dr.
▶ 2:04:11Uh Kushmir, you noted in your testimony about supply chain gaps being a major barrier to scaling domestic um quantum and NIST certainly has a long track record of strengthening manufacturing capabilities and supply chain readiness.
▶ 2:04:29Uh we're so deeply proud of the manufacturing extension partnership networks uh in including uh how they mobilize small midsize manufacturers and they did so uh very expertly during the the co 19 pandemic and uh the centers are you know already focusing on emerging technologies like quantum and we see that the MEP centers in Michigan our Michigan manufacturing technology center uh
▶ 2:04:59leading uh quantum companies and sourcing in the region demonstrating the role that these networks can play in um accelerating this technology. So, Dr. Kushmir, do you mind uh elaborating on how quantum manufacturing accelerators that you described in your testimony? I I took a couple notes will will help address supply chain and manufacturing barriers in the United States.
▶ 2:05:26Yes, thank you for the question. Um that's really one of the main focus that we see for the accelerators. You being able to transition technologies we have in our labs either in NIST or the DOE national labs or in academia pushing it out to these small and medium-sized businesses so they can develop it in partnership this co-development idea so that we can create not just onshore a domestic supply chain.
▶ 2:05:50Um and and I agree there's uh you know the the long history of MEP and we we are well positioned to help manufacturers.
▶ 2:05:58Yeah. And it's also of note that sitting in our audience as a former under secretary of commerce and head of NIST uh Dr. Phil Singerman who remains a a a very active participant in our innovation ecosystem and we're grateful for his presence here today. Um, also the long-term competitiveness of Michigan manufacturing relies on advancements in material science.
▶ 2:06:23Uh, so for example, the ability to design better materials that have made our cars lighter and safer and more sustainable, the benefit of material advancements that span manufacturing, the agriculture industry, healthcare, energy, and aerospace.
▶ 2:06:38Yet material sim science is uh a complex process that demands lots of computational power and it's a area where quantum can uh provide a lot of benefits and this is why I introduced the quantum in practice act alongside Randy Fenstra congressman from Iowa um to ensure quantum modeling and sim are included in our federal quantum programs we've got a just
▶ 2:07:08about a minute left here, but I I I didn't know if some of the witnesses could chime in on how your respective agencies are approaching quantum modeling and simulation research and development. Maybe Dr. CH Clampman, you could start. We very much appreciated your testimony and
▶ 2:07:25Thank you. Um I think from NASA's perspective, our primary approach to quantum computing right now is really how it will be applied to modeling in the future. And we are doing a lot of work on understanding what kind of algorithms we would need to apply quantum computing to areas such as earth science and other remote sensing
▶ 2:07:48Yeah. Great. Well, thank you uh for that and Mr. Chair, uh a long conversation but a lot of great work on quantum. So with that, I yield back.
▶ 2:07:58Gentle lady yields back. Like to recognize gentleman from uh California, Representative Fong.
▶ 2:08:04Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh thank you to the panelists uh for your testimony. Uh certainly America's leadership in quantum science uh is not an abstract research goal. Uh it's a strategic necessity uh tied directly to our economy, our security, and our future. Um if I could start uh uh with you, Dr. Clampen. Um how does NASA see quantum technologies um delivering concrete mission advantages in the next 5 to 10 years?
▶ 2:08:29and um and where does quantum give the United States a decisive edge uh in space exploration that our adversaries like China can't easily
▶ 2:08:41So uh thank you for the question. Uh you asked where it um we see this going. Uh I I think I said in my testimony that you know for us the key area right now is quantum sensing because in every area of measurement you look at quantum uh sensing gives you that you know jump in capability that uh allows you to address new scientific problems or you know gives you the additional capabilities you need
▶ 2:09:11to really pursue the exploration uh agenda that we're following you know to the moon and then onto Mars. So, we're really focused on all aspects of remote sensing, whether it's building magnetometers to understand magnetic NASA loves these things because not only do they give us a factor of 10 improvement in performance, but they're self-calibrating, so they also save time and money as we build spacecraft.
▶ 2:09:37And all of the areas of remote uh sorry of sensing quantum sensing that we're looking at have applications such as remote sensing that also will feed into the you know broader space economy.
▶ 2:09:50Okay. And then uh to build off of my colleague um from Michigan and when in discussing the supply chain and I'm sure other and I'm welcome to the to the open this the rest of the panel as well but but but specifically for NASA are there critical quantum components or materials that NASA relies on that are sourced overseas and does that pose a a a a strategic risk?
▶ 2:10:15I am not aware of any at this at this moment. Uh some of our quantum sensors we actually build in house at NASA. Many are done in partnership with US
▶ 2:10:26Okay. Is anyone else wonder
▶ 2:10:28Thank you. Anyone else want to jump in on the supply chain question in terms of do we source things overseas that we need to? Yes, Doug.
▶ 2:10:35Uh yeah, thank you for the question. Uh currently the supply chain is global in nature very similar to the classical um information technologies that we uh interact with every day. Um I think one thing that we can do and we need to do is understand um what technologies and what materials we need to work hard to onshore and French shore so that we can control that destiny and and um not seed
▶ 2:11:05uh too much control of it to our adversarial nations
▶ 2:11:09and um work to make sure that we have the right materials and the right uh processes in the Yes.
▶ 2:11:16And and just to follow up, has that has that inventory or inventorying been done? Uh there have been a variety of inventorying efforts uh across the federal government. Um they uh for a variety of end uses and I think that uh bringing together um in a holistic approach some of these efforts would would be a benefit and we do that sometimes with or we do that um even currently with through our subcommittees on the NSTC
▶ 2:11:46that were established by the NQI act.
▶ 2:11:48Sure. and and this may be something that we might want to facilitate. I think I think supply chain um resiliency is going to be important not only from quantum but on all the emerging technologies when whether it's quantum or AI. Um if I could stay with you Dr. Crowder. Um, what technical milestones must be achieved before quantum networking moves from experimental test beds uh to to national scale infrastructure? And what is the biggest obstacle preventing quantum research centers right now from transitioning technologies into real world deployment?
▶ 2:12:19Uh, well, I'll stick with the networking for a minute. Um, I think that the most exciting uh applications of quantum networking right now is distributing quantum information between quantum technologies. So think about uh connecting computing modules, computing chips, uh cryostats that have those chips inside them and sensors. And so I think right now um what I'm most excited about is being able to do data center scale. So think intranet, not internet of uh qu connecting quantum
▶ 2:12:50And and just uh la my time is running out, but one last question, Dr. charter. How does uh how will the Genesis mission and the creation of the AIQ office accelerate quantum progress and what should Congress expect within the next 5
▶ 2:13:02Uh the delivery of capabilities.
▶ 2:13:06Simple enough. Uh with that, I
▶ 2:13:09gentlemen yields. I'd like to recognize the uh Representative Selenus from
▶ 2:13:15Uh thank you, Chair Babin and Ranking Member Lofrren for the hearing today and thank you to our witnesses. Um, as we've worked um, quantum the past couple of years, I've really tried to focus on what workforce development looks like and and at all levels of the workforce, not just PhDs. I have a bill with Mr. Bay to provide instrumentation colleges and universities the tools that they need for that practical training. And I was thrilled to secure over a million dollars in our latest funding bill for um, Oregon Tech to acquire some of that instrumentation.
▶ 2:13:45So, it'll allow them to provide some hands-on learning experiences for our undergraduate students. Um, starting with you, Dr. Gonzalez, at our last hearing, one of our witnesses suggested programs like NSF's advanced technology education program could be paired with those instrumentation investments to better support the quantum technical workforce. Can you share how AT program may already be supporting the field and what additional investments or flexibilities could actually help maximize its potential to support quantum workforce
▶ 2:14:15So, thank you for the question. Um I think the AT is a great program because it brings it bridges that gap. I do not have with me numbers on how many of these at um uh awards have directly supported quantum. So I'll be happy to provide that to you at a later time.
▶ 2:14:33Thank you.
▶ 2:14:34Thank you.
▶ 2:14:35And this uh next question is for the entire panel. Regional, technical, and community colleges often lead the way on training at these um diverse levels of the workforce and they serve um diver diverse population students too. I worry that the administration right now the attacks on diversity are limiting those opportunities for these institution and limiting my constituents access to the jobs of the future.
▶ 2:14:57Could each of you tell me what specifically you are doing to recruit and ret retain quantum talent from across the country and across Um thank you for the question. So yeah I mean we are in a workforce shortage plain and simple. We do not have enough domestic or even international talent to fill all the jobs. So at NIST we look to hire you know where we can we look across the across the whole country and we also welcome in foreign guest researchers when needed to help support this effort.
▶ 2:15:28Um, and I fully agree that community colleges can be a great uh jump off point and potentially partnering with industry to identify what's the right niche, if you will, for how they kind of get the training.
▶ 2:15:39Thank you. So for for NSF workforce is part of everything we do and uh at all levels and uh just for just for university undergrad and graduate we we support almost 10,000 people just working on on we recognize that if we're really going to be building the the quantum future we need to have the folks to work at all levels in in in this and not just working
▶ 2:16:09in quantum companies but working as practitioners, as users of the technology. And so we have several programs to sort of fatten the the the pipe the the for for for workforce. Uh for example, Q12 uh is a program that we started uh in 2000 with with OSTP uh to actually provide these opportunities, provide training, provide uh and it's a partnership also with the private sector.
▶ 2:16:39So that's one of the many many things that uh that we're doing.
▶ 2:16:42Thank you, Dr. Clampen.
▶ 2:16:45Um I I'll just say that at NASA, we we do not specifically look to hire uh people with expertise in quantum. We really focused on hiring scientists and engineers who will allow us to pursue our science and exploration objectives. That said, you know, we have a lot of partnerships both with industry and with academia where we're, you know, growing, I think, um, in the areas that we're working in related to quantum the next generation of, you know, quantum
▶ 2:17:14Thank you, Dr. Crowder.
▶ 2:17:16Yeah, thank you. Uh, workforce development is something that's extremely important to our department. Um, and as Dr. Kushik indicated, the uh, supply uh, does not meet the demand. Um and so uh we have engaged in a variety of activities. Um one of them is through our centers, our five national QIS research centers that have together had uh over 1500 collaborators through 115 universities and trained over 200 students.
▶ 2:17:43Um another uh vector to uh have outreach with the the community is our DOE facilities. They serve as a nexus for the workforce through their hackathons and um in in their training programs. They they touch thousands of researchers and they also provide um the user facilities and our test beds provide hands-on um techn or provide access to hands-on technologies for students and uh uh senior scientists and technicians to to work on.
▶ 2:18:13Thank you. My time is expired. Thank you all. I yield back. yields back and I'd like to recognize the uh representative from Georgia, Dr.
▶ 2:18:24Good afternoon and thank you for being here today. This is an extremely exciting topic. Quantum technology is something that took me a long time to grasp. I'm sure not uh to the extent that you all uh have already uh overlooked this and and helped us and guide us in this conversation. Uh really important that you're here today. Uh, one of the things that we've talked about is progress in quantum. Uh, and I want to define that. What is progress in quantum?
▶ 2:18:50Because I think it's illdefined and one of the great things is we are seeing progress and it's actually being applied right now. Most people don't realize we're actually applying quantum uh technologies already. But what is the marker? And I wanted to ask you uh uh Mr. Kusharak uh Dr. Kusharak uh what what do you define as progress and where do we need to go from here? I mean progress is impact is in a simple sense.
▶ 2:19:15So you know developing new quantum computers, quantum sensors that directly have real world impact for US citizens is how I see progress and we are moving along that chain from a metrics perspective. You know we need to get away from quantum computing where we're just talking about the number of cubits but really what systems can solve meaningful scientific problems. And that's a way for us to kind of gauge where the progress is.
▶ 2:19:40Where do you think we are on that scale right now as far as uh what things are we getting in the way of? What things are we helping with? And and like as far as its application, I know it's limitless. I get that there's there's no bar on the 100%, but where do you think we are as far as incorporating that technology into what we're actually accomplishing right now?
▶ 2:19:58I think we're well along the way. Um for quantum computing in particular, when we started VNQI, we were in the noisy intermediate scale quantum regime where there was just hard to do things. And now we have demonstrations of error correction in quantum systems. So we have made tremendous progress and it still needs to advance, but I think we're well along the way.
▶ 2:20:16Okay, great. Another big thing I have a question on is our application to students. Uh we obviously have a lot of students from all over the world right now studying here in America, a million basically 250,000 from China. We have agreements now that may push it upward to 600,000. Very concerned uh Dr. Gonzalez where we're going with that.
▶ 2:20:37Right now, we're we're basically educating our competitors, same back to China where you have already 40 47% of all AI researchers, 50% of all patents and and yes, they're behind us, but they're trying to close the gap very much. What do you think we can do better on that?
▶ 2:20:54Um, thank you for the question. Well, I I think that that uh if the if there's a concern about research security, we can actually uh uh deal with that. And we are at the moment. Uh certainly I think all the agencies uh all the agencies are
▶ 2:21:11what do you mean by dealing with it?
▶ 2:21:13Meaning putting in practices and practices that protect our research, protect our intellectual property.
▶ 2:21:22So So the problem I see though is is when they come over here and yeah I know they're not being they're not able to bring our research back to their countries with them but they have it up here and they're they're learning the most advanced technologies. I mean, you have two AI columns being researched at Georgia Tech right now with a tremendous number of foreign students who then graduate, don't stay here, go back to their countries, whether it be China or India or wherever else. How do we protect our technologies?
▶ 2:21:47What are we going to do to make sure that we're not basically putting other countries at a peer level, if not ahead of us in the I um that that is a that is a very that's a very important policy question that I think it's outside my uh my my
▶ 2:22:09Anybody else want to take a crack at that because I think that's one of the more important questions we have facing ourselves right now. Obviously we have an energy component of technologies. We have an application uh but but training our competitors at a massive scale. Anybody want to talk about that? It's a tough one, isn't it? Okay, we we'll move on to the next one. That's something maybe we as Congress maybe need to have a better discussion on since we don't have uh even our experts are are a bit confounded on that answer. I get it.
▶ 2:22:39Uh Dr. Crowder, how do you plan to engage the nation's top universities to ensure our success in quantum? What what we what can we do
▶ 2:22:49Uh thank you for the question. Um as I mentioned our uh centers uh engage over a hundred universities um across the country. Uh we had um it's a anecdote I like to tell. Um we uh had to get reviewers from places we didn't normally get reviewers when we recompeted the centers because so many of our quantum information science experts were already uh intertwined with the centers.
▶ 2:23:17So um what we can do is we can continue to use the university pipeline to generate the innovation engine that it is and provide new and brilliant ideas for how we can push the forefront of science. Uh take that into um the department of energy. Start uh developing test beds for the technologies that need test beds and start putting those into user facilities as they mature and keep that in innovation cycle continuing to to turn. Great.
▶ 2:23:46I'm out of time. I could talk to you guys all day because I love this topic. Thanks for coming in today. With that, I yield.
▶ 2:23:52Gentleman yields. Now, I recognize Representative Fushi from North
▶ 2:23:58Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today. North Carolina has strong leadership in quantum science with institutions like the Duke Quantum Center and NC State helping prepare thousands of students each year for careers in science and engineering.
▶ 2:24:16But maintaining US leadership in quantum and translating that leadership into economic growth and good paying jobs requires a strong talent pipeline that starts in K12 and extends through advanced research careers.
▶ 2:24:32Programs like the national Q12 education program supported by NSF and bipartisan efforts such as the QIP act that I introduced with Congressman Obenote are important steps in that direction as Congress works to reauthorize the national quantum inst initiative rather.
▶ 2:24:53Can each of the panelists comment on how NQI is supporting quantum education and workforce development at every level and what gaps remain in preparing a quantum ready workforce nationwide?
▶ 2:25:11Thank you for the question. At NIST, uh our our contribution to workforce development really is in training the next generation of cutting edge scientists. So through our joint institutes with academic institutions we have students and postocs and that really kind of are learning precision measurements and then go out and become leaders in the field and in the different technology areas. So that's primarily where we fit in the stack if you want to think of it that way.
▶ 2:25:40Sorry at the NSF. Thank you for the question. at the NSF you you already mentioned the the Q12 program but um as as in the case of NIST we also have a core about 10,000 from undergraduate to to senior researchers that we support uh at at universities and uh I also want to acknowledge that North Carolina and Duke is a great center for quantum for NSF we funded even before the ENQI
▶ 2:26:10project called stack which brings a full stack of quantum uh to to the to the to to the game. So uh thank you for that.
▶ 2:26:18Thank you.
▶ 2:26:22I'll just say that the NASA, you know, we see our contribution as training the next generation of space science and space engineers and contributing to the US economy and not just within NASA centers but also within academia and within industry as we work in partnership with them. And I'll just mention that one of the hooks if you like that really engages people is the mission work that NASA does there.
▶ 2:26:49There's a lot of excitement around our science programs and our exploration program and that's a really great hook for getting people engaged and bringing in the next generation. Uh I'd like to address your second part of the question which is the gap and that is we bar none just need to train more people across the talent spectrum senior scientists uh technicians uh junior scientists and make sure that we um are able to place these people in um
▶ 2:27:19good jobs once they once they actually get trained. I think another part of that is making um parents understand that these will be good jobs when when uh when they graduate. They will learn um a variety of skills from computer science, mathematics, physics, electrical engineering. Um you will not have a hard time finding a job if you learn these skills and you will be able to contribute to the quantum information science technology pipeline.
▶ 2:27:45Thank you. Um Dr. Crowder, we'll stay with you. In December, the Department of Energy sent formal technical assistance to the committee to support our efforts to reauthorize the National Quantum Initiative Act. One of DOE's proposals was for Congress to provide quantum related prize challenge authority to all executive branch agencies that sit on the National Science and Technology Council Subcommittee on Quantum Information Science.
▶ 2:28:15I'd like to hear more about this proposal and why DOE believes it would benefit quantum innovation. In the department's view, how would prize challenges help to advance innovation in quantum computing and quantum science?
▶ 2:28:33Uh yes, thank you for the question. Um the Department of Energy is excited about using a variety of programmatic mechanisms to drive the field forward. Um we've talked a little bit about our notices of funding opportunities and um the prize challenge would just be another um another mechanism to drive the field forward um both in potential algorithmic designs, hardware designs and it just gives us uh uh more flexibility to push the forefront of the
▶ 2:29:01Okay, that's my time. Thanks.
▶ 2:29:05Thank you very much. And now I'd like to recognize uh Representative Biggs from South Carolina. Thank you, Chairman Babin, and thank you to our panelists for being here today. Quantum technology has the potential to revolutionize science and computing, lightning fast computers, secure communication, GPS independent navigation, enhanced medical imaging, and advanced cryptography are just a few of the uses of mature quantum
▶ 2:29:37ecosystem. For these reasons, winning the quantum race is vital for America's national security. I am concerned that many quantum companies are multinational and we can't count on them in times of crisis to have America's best interest at heart. Likewise, I believe that only US citizens should be involved in sensitive quantive research at our universities.
▶ 2:30:06Just recently, the United States granted a 100% American-owned South Carolina company that the patent for quantum enhanced radar technology that substantially overcomes current radar limitations and will enable operations in GPS denied environments.
▶ 2:30:27So my question is as far as the expenditure of US US taxpayer funds is concerned, what will you do to prioritize working with 100% Americanowned quantum companies with new technologies focused on winning the quantum race for the United States. And I'd love to hear from each of you.
▶ 2:30:51Thank you for the question. Um so one area what we're where NIST in particular is looking to help in this extent is through our accelerator program we're looking to build a domestic pipeline of of for the supply chain. So we're helping to grow these domestic companies here in the US so that we have these capabilities going forward so that we aren't relying on on other nations or other companies.
▶ 2:31:18So yeah I ag I agree with that. Thank you for the question. I agree with what with that Dr. Kushmar just said. I if we're going to advance quantum we at least for now we need to just use the supply chain we have looking forward then we can secure it. We can think about uh research security equivalent uh in the in the supply chain.
▶ 2:31:41Um I just and just to say for the NSF we only fund essentially directly we only fund US researchers uh research even when there's international partnerships. Um so so yeah
▶ 2:31:58so for NASA I'll just say echo um my colleagues comments you know we only fund US researchers and um when we uh fund the development of missions and you know flight hardware we always are sort of constrained already by ITAR regulations which have a in which you know place limitations on who we can and cannot place contracts with.
▶ 2:32:24As we're thinking about um you know who we're going to to partner with,
▶ 2:32:32I'll say that the DOE takes uh strategic competition and emerging technologies uh very seriously and views the diversion of unclassified taxpayer funded research as a significant threat to the US economic and national prosperity. Um, America's global leadership in science technology is founded on our unique strengths of our open scientific enterprise and the DOE aims to balance the security risks of collaboration with the need to preserve uh, America's scientific and technological edge.
▶ 2:33:00Thank you. Cyber security and advanced cryptography will also be crucial in the quantum age. As the leading sponsor of this cyber pivot act, I believe we need a robust career development system for cyber security. Cyber security relies on secure crypto cryptography to keep data safe. Um, in the sake of time, I'll just kind of get to the question.
▶ 2:33:27How will the advent of quantum computers change cryptography and cyber security? And what are the risk of not being the first nation to achieve quantum computing and cryptography? And I'll leave it open to whoever feels best to answer.
▶ 2:33:44Yeah. So, so NIST in 2024 released three postquantum cryptography algorithms to specifically protect our our IT systems from a quantum computer attack. I fully agree that we need to make sure we have the the uh workforce in that area as well to implement this. And we're really focused now on working with industry and other government agencies to deploy it.
▶ 2:34:09We have the standards, but until it's out there in products in in the system, it's we're still vulnerable.
▶ 2:34:15Thank you. My time has expired, so I yield back.
▶ 2:34:19Gentleoman yields back. I'd like to recognize Representative Amo from Rhode Island, please. Thank you, Chair Babin, and then thank you for your leadership in holding today's hearing uh on America's leadership in quantum technology. And I'm really excited to be in front of uh this group of of great uh thought leaders uh and public servants.
▶ 2:34:40Uh it's not often that you get three and four-letter agencies that create and contribute so much to not just the things that are important to us today, uh but leading the way for tomorrow. So, I'm grateful to see you because, you know, as you know, nearly 70 years ago, uh, the United States became locked in competition with the Soviet Union, the space race, the Sputnik moment, and we won. Uh, and today, a new frontier demands our national attention, and that's quantum computing.
▶ 2:35:10And it is heartening to hear the bipartisan agreement that the United States must win this race. Uh even President Trump ranked quantum information science and technology second on his research and development priority list for fiscal year 2027. We agree on this and the federal government has a critical role to play in reaching the next frontier of quantum innovation.
▶ 2:35:33And if we're to make this an American century, which I am certain it will be, we need to invest in our quantum workforce of today while growing the pipeline of the quantum workforce of tomorrow. You've heard that through line uh with the previous speakers. And despite this obvious reality, however uh and his stated commitment to quantum innovation, President Trump's agenda has thrown a wrench in our pursuit of another American century. He has decimated our federal scientific workforce.
▶ 2:36:01From November 2024 to November 2025, there was a 29% decrease in federal civilian employees at NSF. a 16% uh decrease at federal civilian employees at NIST. And it doesn't stop there. Approximately 1if of NASA federal employees agreed to leave an agency, an agency they all probably love, under deferred resignation and early retirement. We need to invest in brilliant scientists, not fire them on.
▶ 2:36:30That's got to be a guiding statement. And investing at every level of the workforce will ensure that the United States can win the quantum race. just as the investments in our workforce ensured that we won the space race. But President Trump isn't doing that. He's attacking our pipeline of research talent from start to finish. Not only is he firing experts from the federal workforce, he's discouraging top tier international talent from coming to the United States to contribute to the next generation of research.
▶ 2:36:59And that's seen in this aggressive immigration enforcement and sweeping attacks on international students leading to a 12% decrease in international graduate student enrollment last fall. Why were the best and brightest uh come here when we've made them feel unwelcome? Why are we letting tomorrow's quantum talent go elsewhere? I know I'm preaching to the choir. Uh you are seeing this and experiencing this firsthand. So this is a yes or no question for everyone.
▶ 2:37:27Uh are foreign born and scientists an important part of the US quantum ecosystem? Starting with Dr. uh uh
▶ 2:37:36Yes, they are.
▶ 2:37:39I think yes they are. And I think all the best talent uh is what moves us
▶ 2:37:47I'll just say yes they are.
▶ 2:37:51Uh a month ago you heard from my boss who is an immigrant and so I would say yes they are. Glad he and people like him are batting for our team.
▶ 2:37:59Yes. And and I I'm heartened to hear that because we need to level set on our values and what's so important. And since we've stopped recruiting and retaining the top uh talent, our adversaries have stepped up their efforts. According to CNN, last year, more than 40 rising and established scientists left the US last year to go to Chinese research institutions. And we can't afford to export the next great mind in quantum science like we're exporting now. on allowing the sale of H200 chips. It's shortsighted.
▶ 2:38:28It only accomplishes one thing. Gives up our strategic advantage. We can't do that. And right now, experts estimate that chi the Chinese government is investing more than triple the United States in applied quantum science. Yet in 2023, our domestic private investment in quantum startups was approximately 10 times larger than China. So to beat China in the innovation race, we need government and private industry working together handinand glove to complement each other's strengths and weaknesses. In the time that I have left, uh Dr.
▶ 2:38:57Kushmeer, uh do you agree with this statement and how would you encourage the federal government to foster private sector investment in quantum?
▶ 2:39:08I completely agree and I mean NIST has a long history of working directly with industry and they are investing and through the QEDC where we kind of convene industry perspectives, we see that. So, we're directly interacting with them and seeing where the investments are needed, where federal funds are needed or federal insight is needed, and that's where we're going.
▶ 2:39:29Yes. Well, look, I I'm grateful for your minds and your contribution to the federal enterprise, and we need to do everything we can to support you to unlock the success that we will have in this next great American century in quantum science. So, thank you and I yield back.
▶ 2:39:44Gentleman's time's expired. I'd like to recognize Dr. Kennedy from great state of Utah.
▶ 2:39:51Thank you, Chair Babin, and to the witnesses. Thank you very much for being here with us today.
▶ 2:39:55Dr. Crowder, I'll start with you if that's all right. I'd like to ask the role that the national labs are going to play in the Genesis mission as well as the National Quantum Initiative. If you'd explain some of that connectivity.
▶ 2:40:08Yes. Uh I I'd be glad to. Thank you for the question. Um the Genesis mission is really about um delivering a product at a unique scientific instrument for the country. The national labs, our 40,000 scientists that are employed there are a national resource to us and um and we will continue to leverage them to to deploy this capability.
▶ 2:40:30Um the one thing I I want to say about the the Genesis mission is that um the there is a moment when we can go past just staring up at the stars and build a telescope and for quantum computing that moment is now. It is time to start building the telescope. It is time to start peering past our horizon of what is known and um I think that is what the Genesis mission is about and what the Genesis mission hopes to deliver
▶ 2:40:53and our national labs will be a key part of that.
▶ 2:40:55Absolutely. Our national labs are instrumental to the success of the DOE
▶ 2:40:59Thank you very much Dr. Dr. Gonzalez, I have a question for you about uh so Representative Riley and I are working together on a boosting rural STEM pipeline act to invest in skilled STEM educators who want to work in our rural communities. And I I wanted to know what the federal government is doing to build that pipeline, particularly in rural communities of our quantum capacity individuals who are going to take the place of those of us that are getting older and aging out from this work that we're doing.
▶ 2:41:29Thank you for the question. Um we at at NSF one of talked that workforce is everything that you know is accompanies everything that we do and also we we are very keenly aware of that there's talent everywhere across the nation uh geographically and we try to to reach that that talent as best that we can.
▶ 2:41:53Um one example we have uh a dear colleague letter that's actually uh uh it's called amplifying STEM education investments in and with rural and remote areas and communities is not specifically on quantum but it's one avenue that that we can do and we know we need as much talent as we can get to move us forward. So
▶ 2:42:16thank you for that and I I'd also like to continue Dr. Gonzalez and the the China competition that we have and which sub fields of quantum technology does China currently lead us in research output and quality and how can we work to increase our ability to to win in that race. Um so I think again thank you for the question.
▶ 2:42:37This is an area that's highly in flux because the whole field is is in flux but I think um in the last few years uh if you look the uh the publications uh coming out of China have good quality and they're outpublishing us number of patents uh the same the same story. Um and I think they trai they they have their their their pri the early priority was communications.
▶ 2:43:07So and therefore you heard about the mishus satellite back in 2016. Uh but we we are also clearly working in these areas uh across the country.
▶ 2:43:18Thank you Dr. Clampon. I had a question for you about uh how China has integrated quantum research into their space program. I think you just heard that you know at the moment that's really focused on their mischieous quantum communication.
▶ 2:43:38We're seeing more investment and uh papers being published in areas like uh use of uh manipulation of atoms or photons for instrumentation such as magnetometers and gyros. So we're seeing a growing uh interest in that area which is the area where NASA is primarily focused right now.
▶ 2:44:01And the the research is quality research feeling you feel like it's reproducible and it is something that that is actually justifiably moving the agenda forward for the Chinese Communist Party or or is the research questionable in any fashion? I I I'm not sure you we can really speak to that because we're talking about you know hardware items and you know the the publications would suggest that they are functional and operational but you know we don't have verification for that. So
▶ 2:44:31thank you and uh Dr. Dr. Clampon, if you would continue on with the remaining time that I have and talk about the importance of microgravity research and advancing quantum and how will NASA be working with commercial partners in regards to accelerating our efforts as we transition from the International Space Station.
▶ 2:44:48So, as you noted, you know, we will be transitioning away from space station. Um a lot of the work that we're doing uh in the era of fundamental physics for quantum right now uh we feel is getting to the point where we will be doing the next stages of flight demonstrations. A good example is atom interrometry um for quantum gravity radiometers.
▶ 2:45:12So those will ultimately transition to pre-flying um demonstrations and then operational missions. We are currently looking at ways that we can partner with commercial launch services to replicate some of the capabilities that we've had on space station going forward.
▶ 2:45:29Thank you for that answer. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:45:31Gentleman yields back. I'd like to recognize the representative from North Carolina, Representative Ross.
▶ 2:45:39Thank you so much, Chairman Babin, for convening today's very important hearing. And um thank you to our witnesses for being with us this morning. Actually, it's this afternoon now. Um the importance of US leadership in qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu qu quantum science technology cannot be overstated. From computing systems that can solve problems far beyond the reach of today's fastest supercomputers to ultra seccure communications and revolutionary advances in sensing and materials.
▶ 2:46:09Quantum Technologies promise to redefine the frontiers of innovation. As we've heard and you know, American leadership in this field is essential not only for economic competitiveness, but also for national security, health care, and global scientific influence.
▶ 2:46:29Continued investment in collaboration across government, academia, and industry in will ensure that the United States remains at the forefront of this transformative area of science and shape the 21st century and beyond. At the heart of this national effort are institutions like North Carolina State University, and I'm glad that my colleague from Durham mentioned NC State, which I represent.
▶ 2:46:57Um, bold research and education initiatives are helping to build the quantum workforce and advance cutting edge science. NC State's quantum initiative unites research in quantum computing, materials, and networking with robust education and workforce development. NC State researchers are leading major projects backed by the US Department of Energy.
▶ 2:47:24Some include the exploration of next generation hybrid quantum computing architectures that could reshape how quantum machines are built and used. And then in Durham, just 20 miles away, um the quantum center at Duke is building one of the largest quantum computers in academia.
▶ 2:47:45Through interdisciplinary collaborations, these two universities in the research triangle are contributing to a vibrant quantum ecosystem while training the next generation of scientists and engineers who will carry forward America's legacy of innovation. But the progress is not guaranteed.
▶ 2:48:04And as you know and my colleagues have mentioned, in recent years, the Trump administration has hindered investments in quantum, creating uncertainty around research funding, weakening international scientific collaboration, and deprioritizing long-term investments in um research. Quantum leadership requires stability, openness, and sustained commitment.
▶ 2:48:30The choices we make today will make a difference about whether or not we remain leaders. So, Dr. Gonzalez, the National Science Foundation has long played a central role in advancing quantum science by supporting fundamental research, building multi multiddisciplinary research centers and fostering partnerships across universities, national labs, and industries through programs such as Quantum Leap.
▶ 2:48:58How does NSF view the role of partnerships with higher educational institutions and NC State and Duke in particular? If you can speak to that in advancing quantum research and why the why are these collaborations critical for maintaining our leadership in quantum science and technology?
▶ 2:49:16Thank you for that question and I wish I had more time to to tell you all about it but I'll just highlight a few things. Absolutely. uh uh NC State we have a we have uh something called the QC tax and I'm not going to spell it out but is is to develop quantum sensors for that's really really important so we're focused on the applications uh we also have they're also part of the the national
▶ 2:49:46quantum virtual laboratory together with Duke on on uh to to develop uh to develop a trap ion uh basically test bedet in North Carolina. So we are for us universities is what we fund and is where we we fund the innovation and the workforce. So it's absolutely crucial
▶ 2:50:09and in North Carolina we've also had community community colleges partner particularly with NC State and that helps address workforce needs. Um, in my district, we've had a number of NSF grants. As a matter of fact, your predecessor came to visit a community college and look at what those students were doing. Are you still doing that work? And how robust is it?
▶ 2:50:34Uh, yeah, I believe we are. Um, what really helps is when these partnerships come to us already formed, not not already formed, but already there's an interest expressed and then we we look at it and we we may or may not fund it. So, I think that's helpful. Yes. But I agree community college are key for bringing us to the quantum quantum
▶ 2:50:55Thank you and I yield back.
▶ 2:50:57Gentlemen yields. I'd like to recognize now the uh representative from Tennessee, Mr. Vanips.
▶ 2:51:05Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for taking time today to share your expertise and insight. Quantum is inherently dual use as as we've been talking about sensing, navigation, communications, and computing. Uh Dr. Crowder to start with you. In your view for dual use, what is the single biggest obstacle to taking quantum technologies from a lab demonstration to a department of war program of record?
▶ 2:51:31Uh well, so I don't want to get too far out of my purview um and speak for the department of war. Um what I will say is just in general uh some of the biggest obstacles is just scaling from a couple of logical cubits that have that are loosely connected to highly interconnected systems with a 100 200 logical cubits that can perform hundreds of millions of operations.
▶ 2:51:59um those require careful handoffs between academia who build the foundations of the cubits that we use now to government partnerships, programs, um industrial performers and integrating these technologies all together. Um one thing I will plug here is that the DOE does a great job at bringing serial one chips to the user community to use and compute on. We've done that a variety of times, most recently with the XScale computing program.
▶ 2:52:28Um, and I think that is uh something that we would look forward to continuing to work towards with quantum
▶ 2:52:36Great. Thank Thank you. Uh, while significant attention has focused on quantum computing, we know quantum sensors and networking are prime opportunities as well. Um, and and Dr. Crowder, back back to you. What is the administration's strategy for accelerating these applications alongside computing? and how should the reauthorized NQI direct resources towards sensor development and quantum network infrastructure?
▶ 2:53:00Uh sensing is an incredibly important part of the department of energy's portfolio. Um we have our large uh interpherometer at firmy lab that is going to help us detect uh new fundamental constants for physics and gravitational waves, dark matter. Um we uh similarly networking is again very important to We want to be able to connect systems together. Um, and we need quantum networks to do that. It is uh impractical to send uh quantum information over classical networks.
▶ 2:53:30And so we need to continue to push that forefront um and look to interconnect heterogeneous systems at the data scale level um so that we can actually extract this information and compute upon it.
▶ 2:53:42Thank you. As as we look at the next phase of of the NQI, how do agencies plan to prioritize quantum applications for securing and optimizing critical infrastructure, particularly our energy
▶ 2:53:56Back to Yes sir.
▶ 2:53:58Thank you. Um
▶ 2:54:00and anyone else after that too? Yeah. Yeah. Uh so the applications of quantum uh computation for and quantum information science in general for the grid is uh nent and uh needs to be explored. Um we have a variety of investments to explore that space. Um we right now I think are very excited about uh quantum the quantum applications of material science, chemistry, high energy physics and doing some of these simulations.
▶ 2:54:28There was a recent uh paper that came out of one of our user facilities, NURK, that showed that about 50% of their calculations were on that those subject matter expert or those domain sciences and uh could likely be accelerated through quantum computation at the you know hundreds of logical cubits level.
▶ 2:54:47Great. Thank you. Anyone else like Yes, I'll just note that NASA is actually not part of the National Quantum Initiative, but just again reemphasize the importance of the work that we're doing developing quantum sensors for space applications and the future benefit that that brings to the national space
▶ 2:55:10Great. Thank you. Appreciate that. uh one thing I would like to point out that there's a lot of a lot of national security adjacent quantum related technologies and just something that definitely in my mind interesting is for example materials design simulation and design imagine if we could design a high temperature superconductor it would not just apply to society as a whole but it would also have other applications.
▶ 2:55:37Great thank you. Yeah, and to get back to the idea of supporting the grid and supporting critical infrastructure, one of the key components is timing and time dissemination and this has a critical role in that. We're working with other agencies to provide GPS independent timing for critical infrastructure so that we're able to maintain that.
▶ 2:55:56Great. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Uh I yield back.
▶ 2:56:02Gentleman yields. Uh the uh Representative Foster from Illinois, you're now recognized for your
▶ 2:56:10Uh thank you, Mr. Chair, for convening this and to our witnesses. And I would just want to thank you all for you know, toughing it out and as uh you know, as scientists in the in the federal bureaucracy. You know, it's not always an easy job, but it's um it really matters to the scientists that are out there, you know, doing their job every day. Um let's see. And and I'll the easy part of my question. So, you get to listen to a member of Congress thanking you for all of the um uh everything you do for the area I represent.
▶ 2:56:38I represent Illinois and and one of the joys about representing Illinois is um I get to brag about how Illinois has been a real national focal point for the development of quantum science and and quantum computing. The entire state actually has become a proving ground for the field. Uh this is shown through the Chicago Quantum Exchange which leads both the block tech hub now funded by Mr.
▶ 2:57:00Kishmer's uh commerce colleagues at the economic development agency and the quantum connected project which is currently among the 15 finalists for the NSF regional innovation award. Um NSF has also funded two NSF quantum leak ch leap challenge institutes. one for hybrid quantum architectures and networks led by the University of Illinois Yurbana Champagne and one for the quantum sensing for bioysics and bioengineering led by the University of Chicago.
▶ 2:57:28You know these efforts and instate development have are giving legitimacy to our world-class educational institutions. Um and you know then not only by providing the facilities but training the scientists and um you know that's one of the reasons I'm proud to represent the Chicago area which for the 11th straight year has been number one location for businesses to locate into which I think is something that I cannot say often enough given um everything
▶ 2:57:58that's said about Chicago elsewhere. Um anyway the um so let's a couple of questions you know when when you're in in deep R&D you can let a thousand flowers boom bloom but when you start making you know high large scale systems you have to place technological bets you know some examples of that are uh you have to decide if you're going to be looking at cryogenic technologies for example in the big quantum park that's under construction a big part of that is
▶ 2:58:28a big set of cryoplants for cryogenic quantum computers which might or not win the the race for the most effective way to make cubits. And so you're at least threatened with stranded investments if you place your bets wrong. A similar thing when you're um building the conventional part, the big um supercomputer-like things that are the front ends of these these large quantum engines.
▶ 2:58:52uh you know there's a trend in AI um to go to smaller and less precise word widths you know smaller precision floating points which is probably going to be useless in u in quantum so either you're going to have to continue to invest in you know high high precision floatingpoint engines um or you're going to just try to ride along and so you have to decide are you going to just buy conventional off-the-shelf AI stuff or something that's more optimized
▶ 2:59:22and it's going to be, you know, billions of dollars of investment eventually. Um, so how do you deal with that and any of you with what you when you start to scale up having to place these bets? Um,
▶ 2:59:38I think that that is an extremely complex issue that you highlighted and it's something that's at the forefront of the Department of Energy's mind. Um, we need to be able to first be able to explore a few or actually as many as possible cubit technologies and platforms and understand how they can scale and deliver capabilities. we are, you know, order an order at least uh or two um orders of magnitude away from being performant enough to provide uh scientifically useful calculations.
▶ 3:00:07And we need to be able to explore these um platforms that have not yet been completely developed and then neck down quickly to a few that can actually scale to scientific computation. I think you can do that through a variety of mechanisms. We talked to um uh one of your earlier colleagues asked about the prize challenges things like that milestone based programs can can also help with that.
▶ 3:00:32Any other thoughts on this? Because you know this is this is what's tough. Yeah, go ahead.
▶ 3:00:37So I'll just say in the case of NASA, you know, our priorities are always driven by our exploration and scientific objectives and we have a whole technology maturation process that underlies that um ultimate priority. So we basically just treat these technologies and I'll emphasize again we're really focused right now on quantum sensing applications. We treat them like any other technology that we have to uh develop to the point where we can fly it.
▶ 3:01:05So you know we start with a thousand flowers but the process kind of weeds out the ones that we don't want to actually go forward with.
▶ 3:01:13Yeah. So I would say very quickly the the thank you for the question the the we know that there are technology choices to be made and I think for us is derisking early. So that means continue to support the fundamental research that is aligned with but but still fundamental because there might be things hiding in there that that we might be able to use.
▶ 3:01:37Yeah. Well, you you all have tough choices to make and there's no substitute for having really high quality minds making those choices. So, thank you all.
▶ 3:01:45Gentleman's time is expired and I'd like to recognize Representative Herodopoulos from Florida. You're recognized.
▶ 3:01:53Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity. And I wouldn't ask Dr. Clappen if I could the first question. Um, if you don't mind, in your testimony, you mentioned that extreme space environment allows for unique quantum testing opportunities. One example is the NASA's cold atom laboratory, which is hosted on board the International Space Station. And so the question is what will happen to that cold atom laboratory when the decommission potentially comes just a few years away.
▶ 3:02:21So our goal um with the work that's being done with the cold atom lab which is really developing uh techniques and understanding uh requirements for future instrumentation. The goal will be to transition uh some of that technology to freeflying space applications. And you know the good example that I will give is the quantum gravity gradometer which requires manipulation of you know very cold atoms in order to make the measurements of gravity.
▶ 3:02:51So for the most part a lot of the work that we're doing now will be transition to freeflying experiments. We are also exploring opportunities uh post space station for other commercial launch uh services that would allow us to continue some development work when that was needed.
▶ 3:03:09And just to follow up on that, so would you you also consider using um crude or
▶ 3:03:16Uh it's certainly a possibility. Yes.
▶ 3:03:18Okay. Thank you. Um next I wanted to ask uh Dr. Kushik if I could. Um you mentioned in the NIST work uh will help to secure the intellectual property of the United States. Uh in particular, NIST will create accelerators, adaptive and flexible industry partnerships to develop and manufacture quantum products. Um how will these NIST accelerators promote dominance in quantum computing?
▶ 3:03:44Thank you for that question. So the the real plan here is to kind of co-develop with industry. the NIST and other government laboratories have the expertise and the technology industry is capable of commercializing it and pushing it out the door and creating that economic and uh quantum advantage and dominance that we are looking for. So that's the fundamentals of it.
▶ 3:04:06And and what are the barriers that are out there that might prevent some of these partnerships? Um well there's not really barriers to prevent the partnerships that really there's technological barriers in development of the different uh technologies. So
▶ 3:04:20there's no there's no bureaucratic limitations in your mind at this point.
▶ 3:04:25Um I'm sure there are some but none that
▶ 3:04:27there and there's no legislation that we could propose to accelerate some of the goals we're looking for.
▶ 3:04:32Um I I mean in the in the national quantum uh initiative reauthorization there is already a call out for what we are looking to do. Um, but I would welcome working with your staff to kind of maybe uh strengthen that language if
▶ 3:04:46With that, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the opportunity as always and uh I yield
▶ 3:04:50Gentleman yields. And now I'd like to recognize the gentleman from uh Virginia, Mr. Byer.
▶ 3:04:57Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And uh thank all of you for hanging in for three hours. I I I we feel so fortunate to have NIST and NASA and the National Science Foundation and DOE such talented people, well educated people doing this. Um one of the main challenges facing the budding US quantum industry is the supply chain and the choke points and last year we had several companies talking about how the materials they needed were had to come from Europe or Asia.
▶ 3:05:26We also we just saw what happened in Davos yesterday. with this on again offagain trade war uh 10% tariffs 25% tariffs on our European allies and then they're off again I'd really like to know how first of all make the point that the tax is not just on American consumers it's also on American innovation economy and Dr. Merik especially has NIST heard from industry partners at QEDC about how the trade war is affecting American companies and and h how do you help them through this?
▶ 3:05:57Thank you for that question and yes the QA QDC has been polling its members the the US quantum industry and has learned a number of impacts from the tariffs including you know having to pay the import duties effectively um and how that's kind of disrupts their plans for research and development if now things are that much more expensive. Um so we have some of that data you know we understand kind of mostly anecdotally where things are at. Um, but yes, it does cause uncertainty and uncertainty is bad for science.
▶ 3:06:27Great. Great. Thank you very much, Dr. Crowder. Thrilled to have a William and Mary math and physics graduate with us. Um, you you said a lot of interesting things that feed into a lot of our concerns about the existential risk of artificial intelligence and artificial super intelligence specifically. You talk about scientific computing is at an inflection point.
▶ 3:06:47We're accelerating America's computing capability, but the quantum has the potential to revolutionize and that distributed quantum computing would connect multiple processes to form a more powerful unified quantum computing system. Given that even our best computer scientists don't know what's happening inside these neural networks, you know, you talk to Sam Alman and Jack Clark and they can't tell you why it works.
▶ 3:07:11Given that we don't know how consciousness evolves and that we have not solved the alignment problem, how do we know that artificial super intelligence wants what we want? What's your perspective on making quantum computing, all the good stuff you're doing? Uh how do we make sure that we don't lose control of it?
▶ 3:07:30Uh thank you for your question. Uh quantum computing at its heart is good for two things that we know of right now. um that's codereing and we'll stay away from that for now and making things. We want to be able to do chemical simulations. We want to be able to do um high energy physics simulations and material science simulations.
▶ 3:07:51uh we can look past uh the scientific applications and look towards things like um being able to create better fertilizers, better uh more anti-corrosive materials that you could see transitioning to to industry and making the American experience even better than it already is. And so I think that's what I think about when I think about how we can work to scale towards um util utility and scientifically relevant quantum
▶ 3:08:19without a specific concern about quantum being an important part of developing artificial super intelligence.
▶ 3:08:26Well, I think it's a quantum is a it fits into the high performance AI supercomputing quantum supercomputing they fit together. Um but quantum computing is a fundamentally different paradigm. Um I can see us being able to use AI to uh improve quantum computers through error correction and algorithmic searches.
▶ 3:08:46And I can see us using quantum computing to improve AI like feeding it information out of unique information that can't be produced from classical systems into um artificial intelligences to uh even expand our ability to learn from them. And so I think those are uh how our department views those two playing together. Thank you very much, Dr. Gonzalez. You know, we've never passed a privacy law in 250 years here.
▶ 3:09:11Um, but there's all excitement about um how quantum computing can give us, you know, mechanisms to keep data secure. Do you see any hope about using quantum encryption to have a personal impact on Americans protecting their own data?
▶ 3:09:31my personal opinion is is yes but the time we it will take some time to get those systems in a way that can be used in in the way that you describe I think but yes
▶ 3:09:43I have 15 seconds left. I'm fascinated about a protein that turns into a functioning cubit.
▶ 3:09:50So are we.
▶ 3:09:52Can you talk just a little bit about
▶ 3:09:54Yeah. So this is one of our quantum leap challenge institutes that was funded at the University of Chicago and they basically engineered a protein inside a cell to be to become a quantum a quantum uh biological quant cubit and you know a cubid is sort of like a like because it's very sensitive to the environment around it.
▶ 3:10:15uh it then it can reports all sorts of things from a cell and you can imagine the applications of this uh years from now and that's one of the one of the killer apps in my mind for for quantum sensing certainly leads to an understanding of what a cubit is but thank you
▶ 3:10:34gentlemen yields uh representative Mlan Delaney you are recognized for your questions
▶ 3:10:42so thank you to our chair and to our ranking members members and uh thanks to our witnesses. I've been watching keenly this um from my office this morning and I really appreciate all of your your testimonies. Um I really did like Rep. Buyers's um question on privacy because I spent a lifetime um in tech and and policy protecting kids privacy online and I would love to see how um Quantum can be used to help in a whole host of of areas to protect privacy.
▶ 3:11:12Um, but I do want to give a special welcome um to Dr. um Kushmeik from NIST. My colleagues um know how proud I am of NIST um because it calls Maryland's uh sixth congressional district home and that is where I represent and so I'm so glad um to have you here today. Um my state might be small in size, but it's massive in national and international quantum leadership.
▶ 3:11:38this expert researchers and scientists in my district in Gaithersburg and in Boulder, Colorado. Uh pioneered the earliest quantum technologies and set national standards that have earned four Nobel prizes. This created the first quantum logic gate in the 1990s.
▶ 3:11:54Last year, Governor Moore, who I was just with right now, launched Maryland's qu uh capital of quantum initiative, a groundbreaking public private partnership between our state, universities, private companies, and federal researchers designed to leverage our highly skilled workforce and extensive expertise to help win the global quantum war.
▶ 3:12:16the initiatives of the past two decades of collaboration between NIST and the University of Maryland through joint quantum uh institute uh JQI and I heard you all speaking about it earlier turns um theory into working experiments and ideas into products as many of you have mentioned our international competitors are doubling down on quantum research beyond quantum computing uh China is racing head of communications and sensor development I know that NIST and its partners from academia and industry have
▶ 3:12:46the ability to create this technology and they need our support now more than ever in the face of the Trump um cutbacks on federal um and fundamental and foundational research. Our national security depends on not just innovation but on production and we have to be able to produce. So I just want to address our supply chains.
▶ 3:13:07Although the chips and science act began the process of onshoring prediction uh and production here in the United States um quantum technologies require enabling components like lasers and cooling equipment. You mentioned that NIST pioneered many of these technologies but US researchers and companies rely heavily on imports from Europe and China and tariffs and supply chain disruptions have increased qua costs.
▶ 3:13:33So in a reauthorization of the National Quantum Institute, how can we cultivate a complete quantum ecosystem that includes domestic production these enabling and auxiliary technologies? And I think I heard Rep. um uh Fong also asked uh Tanner Crowder about this and how can we identify and address gaps in technology production and workforce?
▶ 3:14:01I'll I'll take that I guess. Thank you. Uh we're very happy and and thank you for mentioning the joint institutes. I'm always happy to talk about our joint institutes kind of working with academia directly has been key to NIST success and leadership in quantum. So we're very happy about that. U with respect to the supply chain I mean yes there's a lot of uh US developed technology that now is manufactured overseas. We all know that.
▶ 3:14:24Um really one of the things we are looking for within the reauthorization is to kind of refocus and kind of onshore or develop new supply chains really not even just kind of duplicate what's there but move past that. So through the quantum accelerator program we're looking to focus on chip scale lasers and modular small cryo systems that can be deployed in different ways as a as a change agent to kind of move
▶ 3:14:48Excellent. Um and then one more thing in your testimony you mentioned that NIST is already working to establish postquantum encryption standards. How will NIST not only ensure that these standards exist but they are deployed in a timely manner that keeps the US ahead of our foreign adversaries?
▶ 3:15:03Yes, thank you. So yes, we have developed and and published three postquantum cryptography standards. um they are now being developed into international standards so that they can be incorporated across the globe because if we need to communicate with somebody we both have to have the same encryption.
▶ 3:15:18Um and the big challenge now is actually getting it deployed getting it out into the world and NIST is working with uh other agencies and industry to come up with best practices and different ways of implementing so that we can really keep our foot on the gas in that sense.
▶ 3:15:35Thank you and I yield back and thank you to all of you. It was a really fascinating discussion.
▶ 3:15:45Sorry, I hit the wrong button. Uh, thank I want to thank all of our witnesses for your ve very valuable testimony coming and sharing that uh with us uh and as members for your for our questions and the record will remain open for 10 days for additional comments and written questions from the members. So, thanks again. We appreciate all of your services. Appreciate it. Hearing is