▶ 0:08:50Go. >> the subcommittee on federal lands will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time. The subcommittee is a meeting today to consider six bills h.r. 34 by representative gosar. H.r. 1329. Representative malliotakis h.r. 3553. Representative minh h.r. 5478. Representative moore of utah, h.r. 5911, sponsored by representative hurd and s282.
▶ 0:09:21Sponsored by senator king. We're good there. We're good. Okay, I ask unanimous consent that the following members be allowed to participate in today's hearing from the dais. Gentleman from arizona, Mr. gosar. Gentleman from colorado. Mr. hurd, gentleman from california. Mr. minh, welcome. The gentleman from new york. Mr. espaillat, the gentlelady from new york, miss malliotakis and the gentleman from utah, Mr. moore. Without objection.
▶ 0:09:52So ordered under committee rule four f any oral opening statements at hearings are limited to the chairman and the ranking minority member. I therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members opening statements be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted in in accordance with committee rule three. Perrin. All without objection, so ordered. I now recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:10:19The subcommittee on federal lands meets today to consider six bills that, when taken together, showcase the breadth of this committee's work and the responsibility we carry to manage public lands, cultural institutions and federal resources in a way that works for and reflects the values of the american people.
▶ 0:10:39Whether we're talking about wildfire risk, access to public lands, local infrastructure, or the long term health of social security, the question remains the same are we making practical, practical decisions that strengthen communities, protect taxpayers, and use federal resources wisely? That is the lens I hope we keep in mind as we hear testimony today. We'll begin with h.r.
▶ 0:11:0334, the lasso act, which tackles one of the most serious challenges facing our country a national debt that now exceeds $38 trillion in a social security trust fund that is projected to become insolvent in the next decade. Congress has a responsibility to examine every serious idea that can help shore up this critical program, which for many americans, is the difference between stability and hardship.
▶ 0:11:28I appreciate doctor gonzales's work on this legislation, as well as his strong commitment to ensuring our public lands and waters are managed for multiple uses. Our country has been blessed with an abundance of natural resources and locking our lands up and throwing away the key is not the solution to ensuring a healthy and vibrant nation. Next, we'll consider h.r.
▶ 0:11:511329, which authorizes a location for the smithsonian's american women's history museum on the national mall in washington, D.C. congress first authorized this museum in 2020, and president trump signed it into law. Showcasing the broad bipartisan agreement that women's contributions to our country deserve to be recognized in a prominent and permanent way.
▶ 0:12:17Last congress, this committee spearheaded similar legislation into law to locate the women's suffrage memorial on the national mall, making it the first monument or memorial specifically dedicated to women on the national mall as a point of pride, wisconsin was the first state to ratify the 19th amendment. So this is a history that we take seriously and a legacy worth honoring the right way.
▶ 0:12:45That's why today I think this subcommittee must ask tough and serious questions to make sure h.r. 1329 achieves its stated purpose. Recognizing the vast contributions women have made to american history the right way. The committee is aware of concerning planned content for this museum and looks forward to learning and hearing how we can ensure future exhibits accurately and comprehensively reflect the history and values of women in the united states.
▶ 0:13:17Two other bills before us, sponsored by representative hurd of colorado and moore of utah, are examples of the kind of targeted, practical land conveyances this this subcommittee has worked on for years. In utah, the fruit heights land conveyance act would allow a local community to finally close a long standing gap in the bonneville shoreline trail by transferring roughly 300 acres of forest service land to a local community for the construction of new bike trails.
▶ 0:13:46And in colorado, the crystal reservoir conveyance act would transfer a critical piece of water and recreational infrastructure to a nearby local community, allowing the city to repair and maintain this critical outdoor recreation. Wildfire suppression and water storage asset. In both cases, these bills reduce the federal estate, empower local communities, and focus federal resources where they're truly needed.
▶ 0:14:14We'll also hear testimony on h.r. 3553, the brushfires act. Across the country, communities are facing new and growing wildfire threats, especially in the shrubland and grassland ecosystems, where fires can transition quickly into the wildland urban interface.
▶ 0:14:31We've seen the consequences in places like colorado, california, arizona and hawaii, homes destroyed, lives lost, and entire communities changed forever. Representative young king kim, the republican co-lead of this legislation, has seen the effects of shrubland fires firsthand as her district experienced the devastating airport fire in 2024.
▶ 0:14:59This bill does not present pretend there is a one size fits all solution. Instead, it directs the forest service to study what works in these environments and to better understand how brush fires affect communities so we can make smarter, more targeted decisions to reduce risk and save lives. The stakes have never been greater. Just last week, this subcommittee hosted an oversight hearing marking one year since the la fires.
▶ 0:15:30It's clear we need better tools, better information and real follow through. And ultimately, we need the senate to pass the fix our forests act. Finally, we will consider s 282 the katahdin woods and waters national monument access act. This national monument in maine has become a popular destination for outdoor recreation. But access, especially from the south, remains limited.
▶ 0:15:57This legislation seeks to address that, as well as enshrine protections for existing uses like hunting and fishing in the monument. Taken together, today's bills reflect what this subcommittee should be focused on solving problems, cutting unnecessary bureaucracy, improving access to public lands, and being better stewards of taxpayer dollars and america's natural resources.
▶ 0:16:26I want to thank our witnesses for being here today, and I look forward to hearing their testimony. With that, I yield back. And I now recognize the chairman or the subcommittee. >> don't get ahead of yourself. >> don't get the ranking member of the full committee. Mr. huffman ha ha. >> thank you very much for your opening statement, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:16:48Well, um, you piqued my interest a moment ago because it's the first time, I think, in this congress, I've heard my republican friends say they wanted to dig into some oversight, ask some hard questions. But it's not about anything that the trump administration is doing. It's not about this crazy maga cultural revolution that's being imposed on the park service and the smithsonian and others to rewrite our history and whitewash out all the unpleasant parts.
▶ 0:17:14Um, it's about a bill, uh, involving women's history, to make sure we'll see. But, uh, presumably to make sure it's not too woke, make sure they're not going to tell the full story of women's history. I have a suggestion, folks. How about we just let the smithsonian and the park service and the other folks tell the truth? How about the truth?
▶ 0:17:36And let's just live with the complexity of that truth, because there's a saying that kind of sprang up, uh, became popular following world war two. Those who failed to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and it's pretty horrifying that some of the, um, things that the world endured during that very time frame are repeating, uh, right here in this dark, dark moment that we are living through, militarized federal forces are terrorizing
▶ 0:18:06Communities as we speak, carting families away to detention centers, murdering people who stand up for their neighbors. Journalists are getting arrested for telling the truth. And this administration is literally erasing history from the public record. Our national parks and museums are where we bring our children to learn where we came from.
▶ 0:18:25They are where we go to understand the full story of our country, the good and the difficult, the triumphs and the struggles that our nation has progressed through for over a hundred years. The national park service has told america's stories and not just the happy ones.
▶ 0:18:43The park service organic act clearly states that the agency must, quote, conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations. That mission is under attack right now. I need my colleagues to understand what we are witnessing.
▶ 0:19:00This administration is conducting a purge, a systematic campaign to erase black history, indigenous history, lgbtq history, even the scientific basis of climate change from our public lands and our national park system. In philadelphia, park workers were forced to rip down the exhibit honoring the nine people that george washington enslaved at the president's house. Gone. And that was two weeks before black history month at harpers ferry.
▶ 0:19:30They removed materials about john brown's stand against slavery just this past friday, the anniversary of the day in 1963 that naacp leader medgar evers was shot and killed by a self-described racist, reports emerged that the administration will remove mention of racism from the medgar evers national monument in jackson, mississippi, a monument that president trump himself designated in his first term. I'd like to ask unanimous consent, Mr.
▶ 0:19:59Chairman, to enter into the record an article from mississippi today about the administration's planned changes at this monument. >> without objection. >> thank you. The administration posted signs at parks asking visitors to report anything negative about americans. They want you to turn in a park ranger or a docent for actually teaching history, for telling the truth. This is unrecognizable.
▶ 0:20:27This is a maga cultural revolution that chairman mao would certainly appreciate. But not anyone who truly loves this country. And the executive order driving all this calls our museums oppressive for teaching about slavery and forget. And this executive order gives jd vance, our vice president, the power now to purge any exhibit that he personally thinks is ideologically impure.
▶ 0:20:52The guy who called renee good, a domestic terrorist, is now in charge of deciding what parts of our history were allowed to talk about. I'm glad the smithsonian is here testifying today, because I have a lot of questions about how they're interpreting president trump's demands to sanitize history reports that artifacts are being removed from the national museum of african american history are deeply concerning, but they're sadly right in line with everything else everything else the administration is doing in its culture war.
▶ 0:21:21Every day that I'm in washington, I witness families traveling from across the country to be here and experience the museums and the monuments that tell the story of our country. Millions of american families do that every year, and the completion of the smithsonian's american, uh, women's history museum and the latino history museum would create another avenue for a more complete, full story about our nation's history.
▶ 0:21:48It's imperative that as we approach the 250th anniversary of the country's founding, we tell the whole story the truth about the whole story, the founding ideals and the people who were excluded from them for too long. The progress that we've made and the work that we still have to do, that's true love of country, that's patriotism.
▶ 0:22:08Our parks and museums should hold all of our history the full record, not just the parts that are comfortable, not just the parts selected by politicians who are scared of what people might think. Because you can't build the future on a lie. Truth is not dangerous. Truth is not divisive. Truth is how we learn and grow. Truth is how we build a more perfect union. Real americans understand that and we're not giving up our truth, I yield back.
▶ 0:22:37>> we will now move on to our first panel, which consists of members who are sponsoring today's legislation. First, I'd like to recognize representative gosar for five minutes on h.r. 34. The floor is yours, sir. >> I thank the chairman and the subcommittee for allowing me to wave on today to advocate for my bill, the land and social security optimization, or lasso act, american suffered under biden's radical 30 by 30 agenda, a land grab attempting to lock up 30% of our nation's public lands and waters by 2030.
▶ 0:23:07Property rights were infringed upon, grazing permits were revoked, energy development was halted, and multiple use doctrine was abandoned, all fueling the affordability crisis felt by millions of americans today. Luckily, president trump swiftly reversed the scheme through executive orders, expanding timber harvesting, unleashing domestic energy dominance and exploring the feasibility of a sovereign welfare fund. My bill, h.r. 34, numbered after the taylor grazing act of 1934, ties the future of social security to the efficient management of our public lands.
▶ 0:23:38Mr. chairman, I know this is not the be all and end all solution to social security advocates solvency, but the lasso act puts the future of social security into the hands of the american people who pay into it, and also puts the public lands where it belongs with the people. White collar bureaucrats in washington, dc have failed to secure the future for american social security, leaving it vulnerable to rampant abuse and potential insolvency.
▶ 0:24:03Instead, the lasso act puts hardworking americans in the driver's seat by reinforcing the multiple use doctrine of the federal land policy and management act of 1976 to bolster the old age and survivors insurance trust fund, or social security, which pays the social security benefits of retired workers and their dependents. Stewardship of public lands, according to the multiple use doctrine, generates revenue for both the local and federal economies, fueling solutions to affordability.
▶ 0:24:31Importantly, the bill has been cleared by the national association of counties, the american exploration and production council, and the american petroleum institute for concerns about local revenue sharing. Simply put, Mr. chairman, the last act is a win win. It encourages recreational energy, mining, energy, mining and agricultural potential on public lands and funds social security for american seniors, the more responsible stewardship of public lands, the more money deposited in the social security account.
▶ 0:24:58But ultimately it gives everyday americans a chance to build their own success story. This is important. They're not dependent upon the federal government for that success story. They build their own success story. I think they'll do a better job than we have. I thank you, and I look forward to productive conversations with the administration to perfect the lasso act, and I yield back. Thank you. >> thank you, representative gosar. I'll now recognize representative heard for five minutes on h.r. 5911. >> thank you, chairman tiffany.
▶ 0:25:29And ranking member neguse, thank you for holding this hearing and for the opportunity to speak in support of my bill, h.r. 5911, the crystal reservoir conveyance act. This bill is a common sense, locally driven solution. It's the house companion to bipartisan senate legislation introduced by both of colorado senators. And it reflects a principle I've long believed public land conveyances should begin at the local level, with clear public support and a clear public purpose. That is exactly what we have here.
▶ 0:25:59This legislation was requested by my constituents in the city of ouray, colorado. Ouray is often referred to as the switzerland of america, not just for its setting, but for a tradition of careful, consensus driven, local decision making. This proposal reflects that approach.
▶ 0:26:18Crystal reservoir sits roughly six miles south of town and has long served multiple essential functions wildfire suppression, municipal and agricultural water supply, recreation, and support for the city's hot springs. In 2024, the us forest service drained the reservoir after identifying structural concerns at the full moon dam. The result has been the loss of a critical water and public safety asset for a small mountain community. Under this bill, the city of ouray is prepared to step up.
▶ 0:26:47The city would assume full responsibility for repair, operation, maintenance, and liability, relieving the forest service of those obligations at a time when federal land management agencies face significant deferred maintenance backlogs. This approach is fiscally responsible, and it reduces the federal administrative burden. Importantly, h.r.
▶ 0:27:085911 includes strong protections, permanent public access easements, continued recreational access, no commercial development, and reversionary clauses. If the land is misused, the land remains open, protected, and publicly accessible, while being locally managed by the people who rely on it most. In the west, we often say water is life.
▶ 0:27:33This bill recognizes that reality while respecting federal land policy, local stewardship, and taxpayer dollars. I appreciate the witnesses joining us today and look forward to their testimony as they consider as the committee considers this legislation. Thank you, Mr. chairman. I yield back. >> gentleman from colorado yields. I now recognize representative min. For five minutes on h.r. 3553.
▶ 0:27:59>> thank you, chair tiffany, for allowing me to introduce my bill, the brushfires act with the brushfires act would do is provide critical guidance and policies in aligning federal wildfire prevention policy with the best practices that we know exist to actually help firefighters on the ground, particularly when it comes to brushfires in areas dominated by chaparral.
▶ 0:28:19A little later today, we're going to hear from my witness, chris ham, president of the orange county firefighters, who also brought along with him his colleague justin dillon, the vice president of the oc professional firefighters. And as the 2024 la wildfires have made clear, uh, our national and state approaches to combating wildfires, uh, which largely take a one size fits all approach, are no longer appropriate given the growing threat of brushfires in dry, chaparral dominated regions like southern california.
▶ 0:28:50According to recent research, two thirds of all recent wildfires in the last few decades have occurred outside of traditional forest ecosystems, primarily in shrubland andncluding orange county, which I represent. Uh, don't really have the problems of forest fires as much as we face the problems of these brushfires, uh, dense forests are not really a part of our ecosystem. It's the chaparral that often lies right next to residential neighborhoods, uh, creating very real threats to residents that I represent.
▶ 0:29:17Uh, what we've seen over the last decade as climate change has continued to dry out our ecosystems is a vicious cycle. Uh, chaparral is naturally adapted to be drought and fire resistant.
▶ 0:29:31Uh, but as we've had more and more intense wildfires over year after year, uh, that has led to a loss of native species and an encroachment by invasive species and highly flammable weeds and grasses, uh, which then combine with the strong wind conditions we face in southern california. Uh, create essentially a tinderbox condition. And we saw that really visibly arise with the la wildfires, uh, something that's been matched many, many times in recent years in orange county.
▶ 0:29:59Uh, we had a 2024 airport fire that occurred in the cleveland national forest, uh, which I think my witness is going to detail in testimony, uh, that was caused by a small man made ignition in dry brush before it quickly grew, burning over 23,000 acres of land in a few days, destroying 160 acres, uh 160 structures across orange and riverside counties.
▶ 0:30:19And so what my bill would do is try to refocus some of the federal government's resources and attention away from forest fires to the growing problem of brushfires, brushfires act has the support of local fire chiefs in california and other leaders in the fire management community, and what it would do is can direct the us forest service to conduct a comprehensive evaluation of its fire prevention practices in shrubland ecosystems, from the effectiveness of existing fuel treatments to protocols to reduce accidental man made uh.
▶ 0:30:50Ignitions, would also require the forest service to report to congress and the public on its findings. Clearly identify best practices that land managers and fire officials can take advantage of, and evaluate ways that can enhance collaboration with regional partners with on wildfire resilience. Uh, with that, I want to thank chair tiffany. I want to thank my witness, Mr. ham, uh, ranking member neguse, for the opportunity to speak on my bill. I look forward to presenting, and I hope you will consider supporting my bill. I yield back. >> gentleman from california yields.
▶ 0:31:19I now recognize representative malliotakis for five minutes on h.r. 1329. >> thank you. Chairman tiffany, ranking member neguse and and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today in support of h.r. 1329, the smithsonian american women's history museum act. I'm here because of one simple fact. The smithsonian institution is 21 museums, 11 of them right here in the national mall. Not one of them is dedicated to the history of american women.
▶ 0:31:44This bill fixes that, and it finishes what congress started in a bipartisan basis five years ago. In 2020, a republican president and a democrat democratic congress came together to authorize the creation of this museum. President trump signed the law, and he has continued to champion this effort at the white house. This past last march, he, uh, expressed his support for a big, beautiful museum and told us that he would back it 100%.
▶ 0:32:10That kind of top to bottom bipartisan commitment is rare in washington, and it tells you something about how important this project is. The numbers speak for themselves. H.r. 1329 has over 225 co-sponsors, more than enough to pass in our chamber. Over 100 of them are republicans, and the support spans the republican study committee, the main street caucus, the freedom caucus. And it is a priority of the gop women's caucus.
▶ 0:32:37On the other side of the aisle, the support is just as deep. This is not a bill that splits along party lines. It is actually endorsed by the bipartisan problem solvers caucus, and more than half of the committee members on this committee are sponsors. I ask that my colleagues not politicize this museum because it is so important for our country's future, for young people to understand the role that women have played in our history and that it has such broad support.
▶ 0:33:06It is something that actually unites us across the political spectrum, and it's because of the amazing women we seek to honor. Betsy ross stitching a flag for a brand new nation. Harriet tubman risking her life on the underground railroad. Susan b anthony and the suffragists who fought, fought so that women could vote, as you mentioned, chairman, your state of wisconsin, the first to ratify the 19th amendment.
▶ 0:33:29Jeannette rankin of montana, the first woman elected to congress, nellie tayloe ross of wyoming, the first woman elected a governor. Utah's martha hughes cannon, america's first female state senator. Antonio coelho, novella of puerto rico, the first woman to serve as a us surgeon general champion championing women's health and aids research. Sally ride of california breaking earth's gravity as the first american woman in space.
▶ 0:33:56Oregon's lola baldwin, the nation's first policewoman. And oregon's stacy allison, the first american woman to summit mount everest. And let's not forget, of course, the rosie the riveters, the millions of women who stepped into factories during world war two, and the black angels from my district who were courageous nurses who helped find the cure for tuberculosis.
▶ 0:34:19And think about the millions of women whose names we do not know the pioneer wives, the gold star mothers, the military servicewomen, and the teachers and nurses who built families, communities and nation this nation. It's exactly why we need thists core, the museum celebrates american achievement and american exceptionalism. It is patriotic history, plain and simple. I also want to assure the subcommittee that the bill was put together with great care, to make sure it is done the right way.
▶ 0:34:45The legislation requires a nonpartisan advisory council to review exhibits and ensure that the museum accurately represents the varied cultures, histories and political viewpoints of women across america. It mandates biennial reports to congress so that you will always have the oversight of how the museum is developed and curated. This was built to be balanced, representative, and accountable. The bill requires no new federal spending.
▶ 0:35:10It simply authorizes the smithsonian to place the museum within the reserve of the national mall, and directs the transfer of the land. The museum has already raised roughly $70 million in private donations. New construction on a vacant site is the most cost effective path. The proposed site is metro accessible, high traffic and above the flood plain. It is a smart location and it also will save taxpayers money, um, by choosing a new vacant land.
▶ 0:35:35The national mall is where our nation's nation honors its history, and women's history belongs there. America's story is incomplete without the women who built it. A museum without a home cannot fulfill its mission. And now is the time to finish the job. I respectfully ask the subcommittee to advance hr 1329 so that future generations can see, learn from, and be inspired by the trailblazing women who shaped our country right where they should be at the heart of the nation's capital. Thank you. And I yield back.
▶ 0:36:05>> gentlelady from new york yields. I now recognize representative moore for five minutes on h.r. 5478. >> thank you, chairman tiffany. >> and westerman and ranking member neguse for including the fruit heights land conveyance act in today's hearing. I'm excited to be back in the natural resources committee to speak today in support of my bill and thrilled to welcome my constituent, darren franzen, to congress. Thank you for being here and taking the time to testify on this bill.
▶ 0:36:30My bill would convey 295.89, to be exact, acres of undesignated federal land within the uintah wasatch cache national forest to the city of fruit heights in davis county, utah. This would be for public purposes and trail maintenance. This land would be used to connect two currently disconnected portions of the bonneville shoreline trail, and build on the existing froot loops trail system.
▶ 0:36:56Utah is home to some of the most iconic natural landscapes and trails in the country. Consistently ranked as one of the best states for hiking, there are nearly 3000 trails spanning across the entire state. More than 70% of utah is public land. We have relied on partnerships with federal agencies to promote the best use of this land, while ensuring that future generations can take advantage of utah's natural beauty.
▶ 0:37:18While in many cases these partnerships have been strong, there are scenarios like this where I believe local control makes more sense, particularly when the land borders the city, or when the city may be in a better position to keep up with maintenance needs. The effort for this conveyance began when former fruit heights mayor john pullman approached me to find a solution that would maximize access to the trail system and be most beneficial for both the land and nearby residents.
▶ 0:37:44For years, the city and its surrounding communities have attempted to work with the us forest service to improve and expand trail networks on this land. Difficulties have arisen in providing the necessary maintenance for the trail use in the area. This is. This is greatly decreased its overall quality and has further disrupted disrupted the natural vegetation.
▶ 0:38:05Many local leaders and organizations have communicated that because of its current state, several unofficial trails have been created, making it profoundly confusing and very difficult to navigate. To be crystal clear, this bill has nothing to do with additional development in and around fruit heights. It is solely about ensuring recreational opportunities in the fruit heights area. This bill includes language requiring the land only be used for public purposes.
▶ 0:38:32If the city breaks that promise, or attempts to break that promise, the 295 acres would be returned to the federal government. That said, I'm confident in the city's ability to be good stewards over this land, and I do not anticipate this becoming an issue whatsoever. I'd like to thank congresswoman malloy for being an original co-sponsor of this bill.
▶ 0:38:52I'm grateful to the wasatch front, 100 mile endurance run, utah department of natural resources, trails foundation of northern utah, the mayors of kaysville, farmington city, utah, and bikers edge company, who voiced their support conveying this land and asked for unanimous consent to enter their leaders. Their letters of support into the record. That objection. Thank you, Mr. chairman. And thank you again, Mr. franzen, for being here and for all you do for fruit heights community. With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:39:23>> gentleman from utah yields and we will move on to our second panel. Let me remind our witnesses that under committee rules, you must limit your oral statement to five minutes, but your entire statement will appear in the hearing record. To begin your testimony, please press the on button on the microphone. We use timing lights. When you begin, the light will turn green. At the end of five minutes, the light will turn red and I will ask you to please complete your statement.
▶ 0:39:48First, I'd like to introduce doctor david little, deputy chief of research and development at the united states forest service. Doctor little, you are recognized for five minutes. >> good afternoon, chairman tiffany, ranking member huffman and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to present the views of the department of agriculture on those bills today that have forest service equities.
▶ 0:40:13My name is david little, and I serve as the acting deputy chief for fire and aviation management in the us forest service. The four bills I'll be testifying on today address a range of issues from the study of wildfire mitigation approaches in shrubland ecosystems to land conveyances, to policy regarding retention and use of revenue generated on national forest system lands. I'll discuss each of the four bills briefly, and direct the committee to my written testimony.
▶ 0:40:39For a more detailed explanation of the department's views on these matters, starting with h.r. 3053, the building, resiliency, and understanding of shrublands to halt fires act, or the brushfires act. The bill would would direct the forest service to study how effective current wildfire mitigation strategies are in shrubland ecosystems, including impacts on nearby communities, with the goal of identifying strategies that would be effective in reducing wildfire risk and damage in and around shrubland ecosystems.
▶ 0:41:09The bill also requires the agency to produce a report to congress summarizing findings and offering actionable recommendations. The report would include best practices, knowledge gaps, and identification of administrative and operational limitations. There is also focus on improving coordination with nonfederal partners to reduce risk to homes and infrastructure in and around wildland urban interface. Usda supports h.r. 3053 and appreciates the intent behind the proposed report.
▶ 0:41:36The agency anticipates learning from the outcomes of the study to improve wildfire mitigation efforts, and share those findings with usda and doi. As we work to unify the wildland fire management mission. H.r. 5078, the fruit heights land conveyance act of 2025, and h.r. 5009 11 crystal reservoir conveyance act would direct the forest service to convey certain national forest system lands to the cities of fruit heights, utah and ouray, colorado, respectively.
▶ 0:42:03While the details of the individual land conveyances are distinct, in both cases, the forest service is working with the affected stakeholders and would appreciate the opportunity to work with the bill, sponsors and committee to arrive at a solution that meets the needs of all interested stakeholders. H.r. 34. The land and social security optimization act, or lasso act, would establish a mechanism to direct a portion of revenue generated from public lands to the social security trust fund.
▶ 0:42:29While the department appreciates the intent of the bill to strengthen social security, consistent with the president's unbreakable commitment to protecting and strengthening this vital program, as currently written, the department opposes h.r. 34. We would recommend additional discussions between the forest service, the bill sponsor, and the committee to better understand the mechanics of the proposed bill and explore the potential impacts on other statutes that define the terms for the collection and use of revenues on national forest system lands and the trade offs
▶ 0:43:00With activities that support and protect rural communities. Thank you, chairman tiffany, ranking member huffman, and members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to appear today. It truly is an honor and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you, doctor little. Now I want to introduce Mr. ronald cortez, undersecretary for finance and administration at the smithsonian institution. Welcome, sir. >> thank you. Chairman tiffany, ranking member and all members of the committee for the opportunity to discuss h.r.
▶ 0:43:311329, a bill to permit smithsonian american women's history museum to be located within the reserve of the national mall. I'd also like to thank the sponsor of the legislation. Read representative nicole malliotakis, along with more than 225 co-sponsors, congresswoman malliotakis has been a tireless champion for the museum and the smithsonian, and we deeply appreciate her commitment to his success.
▶ 0:43:59My name is ron cortez, and I serve as the undersecretary of finance and administration, and I'm the chief financial officer for the smithsonian institution. I oversee all central operational offices, which provide critical support across the entire institution in human and financial resources, information technology, procurement, safety and security.
▶ 0:44:25And most importantly for today's hearing, our facilities planning and operation. In 2020, congress passed and president trump signed into law a bill authorizing the creation of the smithsonian american women's history museum. That legislation directed the smithsonian board of regents to select a site for the museum.
▶ 0:44:47Further, it enumerated specific sites for consideration, including the site I'll discuss today and a clear expectation that the museum be located on or near the mall. After passage, we immediately got to work identifying sites and all. We evaluated a total of 27 locations in washington, D.C.
▶ 0:45:11We then evaluated them on the broad criteria and considered location, excellent accessibility to visitors, proximity to other smithsonian museums, and cost. We sought input from regulatory bodies, local elected officials, community groups and supporters, and congressional stakeholders. The list of site was narrowed to a handful of locations that were considered by the smithsonian leadership.
▶ 0:45:39Our board of regents, our and the american women's history museum advisory council. Ultimately, this nearly 18 month process identified an optimal location on the south monument site, which mirrors the location of the national museum of african american history and culture. Balancing the development on the south side of the national mall.
▶ 0:46:04This was the top listed site for consideration in the authorized legislation, and precisely where the original sponsors envisioned the museum. The south monument site provides various advantages. As an unoccupied space, there would be no need to relocate any offices or demolish any existing structure. We've been able to build a custom facility that meets the programing needs of the visitors.
▶ 0:46:34We would also be able to move quickly, prevent cost escalation and meet public expectation that this museum would be a prominent addition to the national mall. However, the 2020 legislation did not empower the smithsonian to move forward on this recommendation, recommending use of the reserve for this museum is not a suggestion we make lightly. Our nation's capital, specifically the national mall, must have space for americans to gather.
▶ 0:47:06This need will be made even more clear this summer when we gather to commemorate 250 years as a nation. But the national mall is not just a place to gather. It conveys a message about our shared national values, our achievements, and our history. The smithsonian plays a key role in creating the mall's powerful sense of place and purpose. It's a responsibility we take seriously and are honored to steward.
▶ 0:47:35This museum is a public private partnership with the smithsonian, coming to raise half the funds needed to construct it. And to date, this museum has raised over $71 million. Identifying a site will demonstrate the federal commitment and inspire confidence from additional donors. Should this bill become law will be taken a paramount step toward the museum's opening day.
▶ 0:48:02While there still is a long way to go, establishing this site would prevent additional delays and their associated costs, as well as permit the museum to begin planning its long term vision. If signed into law, we are confident that we can deliver a world class museum at this location that is worthy of the smithsonian and the american people. Thank you again for the opportunity to be here today, and I welcome your questions.
▶ 0:48:31>> thank you for your testimony, Mr. cortez. Before we move on to questions from the panelists, um, I'm going to recognize representative golden. Um, in regards to the bills that we have before us, uh, for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chair. >> I appreciate. >> the flexibility here. Uh, I'm going to be changing the subject here very briefly. Uh, and then I'm sure you'll have plenty of good questions.
▶ 0:49:00Um, I'm going to take a moment to discuss the katahdin woods and waters access act, which I'm glad you've included in today's hearing. For those of you who don't know, katahdin woods and waters is a national monument in maine's second congressional district. It's about 88,000 acres of rivers, streams and woods in the region around mount. It's the tallest mountain in maine, uh, and the northern terminus of the appalachian trail. It draws tens of thousands of visitors each year.
▶ 0:49:28Given the monument's location in the northern part of the north, most northeastern, uh, part of the lower 48 states, nearly everyone who comes to visit the monument comes from the south, the largest communities in the monument's vicinity, millinocket and east millinocket, are also at its southern end, making them a natural gateway to katahdin woods and waters, the challenge currently being that while there are roads on a parcel of land connecting these communities to the monument,
▶ 0:49:58There's no guarantee for public access. In other words, we have gateway communities with no gateway leading into the monument. This bill is a simple, light handed fix. It authorizes the national park service to secure a legal interest over that existing road and public access into the park. I'm glad to report one thing the bill does not do is mandate the federal government to buy the land. It will simply allow nps a seat at the table with local landowners to help secure public access to the monument.
▶ 0:50:28The underlying bill is already, uh. I'm sorry, the underlying land is already for sale. And we expect the penobscot nation, a federally recognized tribe in maine's second district, to purchase it. The penobscot support the bill, along with local businesses and community groups, nearby town governments, and many others. It would complement the existing private sector investment in katahdin woods and waters, which already far outweigh any direct federal appropriation for its management and maintenance.
▶ 0:50:55The goal is a system of shared management and partnership that keeps the land in private hands, while creating certainty for a broad range of stakeholders. That includes people looking to pass through into the monument. It also includes hunters, fishermen, foragers and other sportsmen, as well as loggers and others in the timber economy. Depending on where you're from, this kind of arrangement may seem unusual, but in maine it is certainly the norm.
▶ 0:51:19Private landowners all over maine routinely make their land accessible for recreation and the natural resources economy. This bill simply gives the nps the ability to participate in those arrangements and secure access to katahdin woods and waters. The bill is a carefully crafted solution with an appropriately limited federal role, relying on the kind of practical, practical, local partnerships that my constituents are familiar with. It's a light touch approach to supporting communities in maine in a way that makes sense for maine. So with that, Mr.
▶ 0:51:49Chair, thank you very much for including this bill and today's hearing, and I look forward to advancing it out of this committee. >> gentleman yields, and we will move back to our panel two. And members will be able to take five minutes for questioning. I am going to start that questioning under secretary cortez on march 27th, 2025. There was an executive order that was issued, restoring truth and sanity to american history.
▶ 0:52:15This executive order stated in part, that the forthcoming smithsonian american women's history museum plans on celebrating the exploits of male athletes participating in women's sports. Um, was there any content like that that was being considered for future exhibits? >> thank you. >> thank you for that question.
▶ 0:52:40Uh, as I stated in my testimony, I'm the undersecretary for finance and administration, and my role has been in finding the site for this very important landmark institution and making sure we deliver a first class facility that aligns with congress intent. Having said that, as a senior member of the smithsonian leadership team, I know we're committed to providing exhibit content that is rooted in rigorous scholarship and expertise. Nonpartizanship age appropriateness and accuracy.
▶ 0:53:10We take extra review of exhibitions and material that may touch on sensitive, controversial topics to ensure the content meets our high scholarly standards. I would be happy to arrange a visit or a meeting with one of my colleagues, who is more expert on content issues for the smithsonian. >> I take it. Is there someone else that we should contact in regards to this issue? >> uh, there is, and I will make sure to work with your staff to arrange that if necessary.
▶ 0:53:39>> you know, in the discussions that you've had, I understand that perhaps we should talk to someone else. But are there safeguards that are currently in place to make sure that the history and achievements of women in america are not men? Do you have any safeguards like that in place?
▶ 0:53:55>> again, I will respond with that that I say my professional expertise is with finance, administration and siting this museum, and I would be happy to refer, uh, any questions in that regard to the experts at the smithsonian could answer those questions. >> yeah. If you'll just share. >> with us, um, who we should contact in regards to that, that would be greatly appreciated. >> absolutely.
▶ 0:54:16>> uh, chief lytle, um, why why are we not able to find an administrative, um, um, an administrative answer to this concern in regards to the, um, bonneville shoreline trail. Why are we not able to get an administrative agreement on this, rather than having to bring a bill forward in order to do this? Chairman tiffany, thank you for the question.
▶ 0:54:43We have been working. >> to we have been working with, uh, davis county as well as with the city of fruit heights, uh, to develop the trail plan through the parcel that is of interest, as well as a couple of bridges that are important to connect the trails through this five mile parcel. Uh, we continue to engage with the city, including last week when we met to talk about the progress that we have been making.
▶ 0:55:09Uh, and we are about six months from being able to break ground on trail construction and maybe a year from breaking ground on bridge construction in that parcel, which we think is very good news. We also think that this is the time to to enhance our coordination with the city so that we can continue to integrate their interests with the trail development plan that we have. >> does transferring the parcel to the city of fruit heights, um, make coordination easier? >> that is one coordination. Uh, Mr.
▶ 0:55:37Chairman, uh, there is there is also a continued work on the administrative side that can achieve the same results. And we would like to continue to coordinate with the bill, sponsor, uh, with the city, with the county, with this committee, to make sure that we have the most expedient way to move forward. >> yeah. We really hope that you can expedite that process administratively so that this can be accomplished. Sounds like it's a good project. Um, I yield the balance of my time.
▶ 0:56:04And I now recognize miss randall for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you so much, Mr. chair. I'm so glad that we are here discussing my colleague from new york's legislation to move forward. The smithsonian american women's national history museum, a project that has been years in the making. But I am disappointed, Mr.
▶ 0:56:25Chair, that we're not simultaneously considering legislation to do the same for the national museum of the american latino, despite both of these museums being established by congress at the same time. Earlier this morning in the oversight and investigations subcommittee, we had a similar conversation about the whitewashing of american history happening under this administration.
▶ 0:56:49And as I think many people watched on tv, benito antonio martinez ocasio put it so beautifully in his super bowl halftime performance, together we are america.
▶ 0:57:03And as a latina orgullosa seeing my culture boda y barrios, a wedding and neighborhoods, ninos y trabajadores, kids running around in workers in sugarcane fields and fixing power lines reflected on one of the biggest stages in the country, was a reminder of exactly why the national museum of the american latino matters so much.
▶ 0:57:24For every brown kid that flies across the country to visit dc and see our museums, it's important for them to see themselves and their contributions to our country highlighted. I want to shift gears and talk to deputy chief little about wildfires, the pacific northwest, my district included, has seen historic and devastating wildfires over the past decade.
▶ 0:57:50And just last year, for months, firefighters fought the bear gulch wildfire, which at its peak was over 20,000 acres and was the largest wildfire on the olympic peninsula since 1951. The forest service partnered with federal, state, county, tribal and local entities to prioritize public safety and protect critical values.
▶ 0:58:12Um, and my district is home to 12 federally recognized tribal nations who have developed deep ecological knowledge of fire management and landscape health, not just recently, but over millennia. And I'm so grateful to those local tribal leaders for their partnership and collaboration in fighting wildfires like bear gulch. And I'd like to see the federal government proactively working with tribes on how best to steward our forests and prevent wildfires as well.
▶ 0:58:41Uh, the bipartisan welfare commission report recommended that congress provide the forest service with stand alone authorities to enter into co-management agreements with tribes. And just a few weeks ago, gao released a report recommending congress pass additional and expanded collaboration and co-management authority so that we can strengthen land management agreement with tribes.
▶ 0:59:04Um, doctor little, would the creation of new tools for tribal co-management help address the wildfire crisis, in your opinion? >> thank you for the question, congresswoman. Excuse me. We share the same values that working with our tribal partners, uh, bringing their experience, their knowledge, their interests to the questions of resource management are very important.
▶ 0:59:33And we work through a number of tools that we already have to do that. Uh, uh, good neighbor authority, shared stewardship, uh, tribal forest protection act 638 authority. All of those tools we make use of, and we continue to grow because we see the importance of engaging with our tribal communities. Should congress choose to provide us with additional authorities, we will certainly take full advantage of those. >> thank you for that very diplomatic response. I yield the balance of my time, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:00:05>> gentlelady yields. I now recognize the gentleman from idaho for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And, uh, this this, uh, first of all, thank you to the panel for being here and for your testimony today. This is always an education for us. My first question is for Mr. liddle. Has to do with the brush fires act in my home state of idaho. We've we're not, uh, immune or a stranger to wildfires.
▶ 1:00:29And, um, that's pretty well known, I think just as an example, to set the stage for this question, we in 2024, we had just under 1500 fires in about a million acres. And unfortunately, that's not uncommon in our state, very similar to my colleague from utah. We've got about the same percentage of of, uh, land mass that is federally managed and a lot of very similar challenges.
▶ 1:00:55But in regard to, uh, the brush fires act, uh, can you provide a percentage of, in your mind what percentage wildfires occur on forest service shrublands? Do you have any idea what that might be? >> congressman, thank you for the question. I don't have that specific information, but I'm sure that my team can provide that to you. >> okay. And that would be helpful.
▶ 1:01:21Um, in that regard, what's the challenges that has has prevented the forest service from addressing some of those fires in the past or doing so optimally? What are some of the challenges? >> yeah, again, thank you for the question. There are some something on the order of 350 million acres of shrub lands in the us, and most of those are in western us, and they provide different challenges for fire management and fire wildland fire risk reduction than do forest ecosystems.
▶ 1:01:49Uh, they respond differently to wildfire. Uh, the tools that we have are not as durable on shrubland ecosystems, meaning that they recover from those treatments more quickly. And so we have to go back and continue to, uh, work in those lands to mitigate fire risk on an ongoing basis. But we also have different tools that we can use. A grazing targeted grazing, for instance, is a tool that we can use in shrubland ecosystems that we we can't use as effectively in forest ecosystems.
▶ 1:02:15And so there is a an ongoing challenge that we we have in managing those ecosystems to mitigate fire risk. But we are uh, we are working, uh, to protect to protect communities, to protect lives, to protect property, uh, with those activities and shrublands as well as in forest. >> so in you mentioned the different, uh, different tactics and whatnot used for these fires could effective methods for fighting wildfire in shrublands be applied to other ecosystems?
▶ 1:02:49>> congressman, I think the answer to that is, is yes. And, uh, the tools that we apply, the tactics that we apply, uh, are chosen by the local, uh, fire managers based on the conditions on the ground. Uh, and these are experienced teams, experienced individuals, and they're the ones who are making the decision on an ongoing basis. >> is it common to, um, to to share those strategies or, uh, strategize jointly with, like, for example, state and local.
▶ 1:03:21>> absolutely. Wildland fire is an interagency, multi-agency, uh, endeavor. And we engage with the federal government, with our state partners, with tribes, with local governments, uh, to both mitigate risk and to suppress wildfires when they occur. >> just just for a future conversation. I think that's so important.
▶ 1:03:40You know, we especially in the west, where we have such a broad amount of vast amount of these lands, if we're not leveraging the strengths of each other, we're not going to succeed in the management. So thank you for that. And I'm going to transition over. I've got about a minute left to Mr. cortez. This is in regard to women's history museum. Um, the national mall is one of the most recognizable iconic areas in america.
▶ 1:04:06And, uh, and I think this is great, but and when when the project like this comes along, how can we ensure that this, this, uh, this museum and how it's laid out and where it's placed and all that honors the prestige associated with the potential location on that mall? How do we keep that iconic nature with new additions? >> sir, thank you for that question.
▶ 1:04:32As noted in the testimony, we do not make the suggestion of building on the reserve lightly. If congress were to enable this location, it would be obligation to make the decision worthwhile. Building on the south monument site will systematically mirror the national museum of african american history and culture in the mall setting, completing the north and south lines of the museum and federal buildings that line the mall's green space.
▶ 1:04:57The design of the american history museum will create a stronger experience for national mall visitors. Currently, visitors walk east from the washington monument, first encounter the building west parking lot, designing and creating the signature american architecture can strengthen the transition between the washington monument grounds and the central mall space. >> and I thank you for that.
▶ 1:05:21I used up my time, and so something tells me that you might have anticipated that question, but. >> it's it's a very important question. >> all right. All right. So thank you for that. But we all need to be mindful of this looking forward. So thank you Mr. chairman I yield back. >> gentleman yields I'll I'll recognize the ranking member Mr. huffman for his questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:05:45Well, I have to say I'm disappointed because, uh, in your opening, you said you were going to ask some hard questions about the women's history museum and the planned content. Uh, and you didn't do that. You instead breathed life into a really tired and completely refuted old lie. Uh, and so, for the record, Mr.
▶ 1:06:06Chairman, I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter a march 28th, 2025 article from the washington post, uh, into the record, where a spokesman for the smithsonian who was authorized to talk about this very question, which was swirling in the fever swamp of right wing fever swamps, whatever they do there, uh, and completely, uh, refuted it. I'll just read a quote from this smithsonian spokesperson. I can just say that's not true.
▶ 1:06:36We don't have an exhibit open or planned on the subject of, as they put it here, the exploits of male athletes participating in women's sports. So, um, it was a lie. It has always been a lie. Uh, it is the lowest form of bottom feeding politics to keep regurgitating stuff like that. >> you're asking that to be entered? >> yes. >> I am so ordered. >> now, um, Mr.
▶ 1:07:00Cortez, uh, I do want to ask you about this request from the white house, uh, august of last year to review the content, exhibits, and interpretation of exhibits at eight museums, including the national museum of african american history and culture and the national museum of the american indian. Under the guise of reviewing exhibits ahead of america's 250th anniversary, could you please tell me how you're responding to the white house's request?
▶ 1:07:30>> sir, as I mentioned earlier, uh, that is not my area of expertise, which is content. But having said that, as a senior member of the smithsonian, I'm aware that we're continuing to dialog with the white house providing information related to our current exhibitions, educational materials, and guidelines. We have also offered to brief them on our process and procedures when it comes to exhibit design and construction, and our policies related to document creation.
▶ 1:07:59But other than that, I can get more information from my colleagues and more steeped in this information. >> can I ask, has the smithsonian removed any exhibits or interpretive materials as a result of this request? >> I'm sorry, I'm not in a position to answer that just because that's not my area of expertise. Um. >> all right. Have you heard? You are at the at the smithsonian. Have you heard about any plans or any concerns about removing exhibits in response to this request?
▶ 1:08:28>> I have not heard of any, uh, concerns of items being removed. >> yeah, well, obviously, that's something that I think this committee, many members of this committee would be very interested in. And so I would appreciate it if you would pass along to your colleagues at the smithsonian our interest in, uh, hearing from them about how they plan to respond to the president's request and certainly if any actions been taken to change content or remove content, content in response to this, we need to know everything about that. So thank you very much. And I.
▶ 1:09:00>> absolutely. >> gentleman yields. Is that correct? Okay. Uh, I'd like to recognize the gentleman from minnesota for five minutes. >> thank you very much. To duluth curlers won the mixed doubles silver silver medal today.
▶ 1:09:23Thank you chairman tiffany I'm proud to support a co-sponsor hr 1329, the smithsonian american women's history museum act, introduced by my good friend and colleague from new york, representative malliotakis. I'm glad to see the work that the smithsonian has made thus far and working to build the museum, and I'm glad this legislation is moving forward to ensure we are able to finally make this important project a reality.
▶ 1:09:48The national mall is a special place for all americans, and it's important that congress, the national park service, the smithsonian and other federal partners carefully work together when planning and designing monuments, museums, and other public areas on the mall, especially within the reserve area. Frankly, much of this space needs to be preserved, and we just can't build anything. Uh, we just can't build anything here.
▶ 1:10:13That said, I believe the smithsonian american women's history museum is one of the few projects that does, in fact, merit this distinction under secretary cortez. Thank you for testifying today, and thank you for the work of you and your colleagues to advance this important project and help make it a reality.
▶ 1:10:31Can you can you please expand on the on your testimony specifically as to why it makes sense to build a museum within the south monument site, within the reserve? >> yes. Thank you. >> you prepared for that question too, didn't you? >> I'm prepared as this is an important site. A lot of good work has gone into the evaluation process as well.
▶ 1:11:03There's a couple of things that make it a really good site. First, it's, uh, it's positioned in the mall as you enter, uh, as you enter this particular area. And it's the mirror side of the national museum of african american history and culture. It's got, which is actually one of the most visited sites in the world. The land is flat, it's unoccupied, and it has numerous conditions that are positive.
▶ 1:11:32For example, it's not in the floodplain. It has adjacencies to all the number of the museums. So it should not only. >> should the planning and construction then be relatively easier than in another space. >> yes, the construct, the design, construction and planning will be easier in this space than in other spaces. Absolutely. >> and then can you also expand upon the funding for this museum as a private public partnership?
▶ 1:12:01On on, uh, one half the cost of the construction will not come from taxpayers, but will come from privately raised funds. Is that correct? >> that is correct. 50% of the money will be raised from private donations. And I think they've done a wonderful job already raising over $71 million today. >> that's wonderful. So with my remaining two minutes left, I want to, uh, I would allow the author, representative malliotakis, to take it. >> could it give me a heads up?
▶ 1:12:32You're going to do that? Um, well, I just want to say thank you very much for your work on this. I want to point out that the advisory council has, uh, really spent a lot of time, years, actually, to identify the proper site. And as I mentioned, building on a clean site, which was identified, it's about an acre would be much more cost effective than to try to replace an existing building. And is that so, Mr.
▶ 1:13:01Cortez, based on the evaluation of smithsonian. >> reverend representative malliotakis. That is correct. It will be much, uh, cost effective and it'll actually be, uh, quicker to build, which will also save us money in the future. >> wonderful. And I just want to thank Mr. huffman for submitting that article into the record. I think it is important that we have clarification on what the intention is, uh, and the content.
▶ 1:13:27And I think the quote provided by the spokesperson from the smithsonian that was on record and submitted on record today, uh, was very helpful in clarifying and addressing any concerns that members may have so we can focus on the real issue of this museum, uh, which is going to be a wonderful tribute and dedication to the women of this country who have helped build the united states and have done so much and sacrificed so much, uh, to bring us to where we are today.
▶ 1:13:57So I want to thank you again for yielding your time, and I look forward to working with my colleagues on this important project. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> thank you, representative malliotakis, for your hard work on this. This is really worth it. And I yield back. >> gentleman yields I now recognize miss leger fernandez for her questioning. You have five minutes, ma'am. >> well, thank you so very much, Mr. chair. And thank you, representative malliotakis, for bringing this bill and for for witnesses today.
▶ 1:14:21You know, and I'm like so many americans who are lucky enough to be able to come to the mall and come to the smithsonian museums. We love them, right? We love the way the galleries unlock the stories they tell us of the struggle, the struggles to get to space, the struggles that different peoples have encountered here, the gowns that the first ladies have grown. I can't wait till we have a gown that the first woman president has worn to inauguration. But you know, these are in fact stories.
▶ 1:14:52They're stories that are real, that are based on our history. But the best stories always have a protagonist struggle. And then how you overcame that struggle. It's the hero's journey. And that's why I think it's important that we allow the smithsonian and the different museums that make up the smithsonian to tell the stories from the perspective of is it the women? Is it the native americans?
▶ 1:15:21Is it what's happening in space because they are the ones who are best equipped? And for women's stories, I think it's the women who should be telling the stories. And it should not be politicians of either party, especially male politicians telling us what stories are important. Because I want to hear the stories of we all know about rosie the riveter, but what about the farmerettes? Right?
▶ 1:15:48In 1917 and 1919, the women who left their farms to come and work because the women, the men were off at war? What about the fact that it took women so long to get the right to vote? We had to march and protest and starve ourselves. We're white so we could get the right to vote and how we are going to always fight for that right to vote. How about all of the amazing women artists who are out there?
▶ 1:16:16Do you know that there's only 13% of the art in the world's museums is with women artists? Imagine the beautiful women that are going to be in that museum. New mexico has one of the only museums dedicated to a woman artist, georgia o'keeffe. We're so proud of that. So that's why I think it's really important to have this museum. I also think it's incredibly important to move the latino museum and the women's museum together.
▶ 1:16:44They have always gone together and been supportive of each other. As we move this process forward. In 2020, congress supported the creation of both the women's and the latino museums in the same bill. And I think that it is important that we continue as we move this bill, that we also move the latino museum forward, because both of them deserve to be on the national mall. And Mr.
▶ 1:17:09Cortez, isn't it true that there's enough room depending, you know, and we might be we might not know exactly where each one will be, but there is enough room on the national mall to accommodate both museums. Is that correct? >> uh, madam, the smithsonian did recommend two sites that are on the mall. Uh, the regents did approve and recommend that. One is the tidal basin and one is the south monument. >> right. So there's space for both of them.
▶ 1:17:38And I think we should continue to move both of them. And the other thing that is interesting about needing to move both of them and, and pass both of these bills and keep them going, is that there are impacts on fundraising. I understand, like if we don't have the space preserved and identified, we're doing a great job on the fundraising. But wouldn't it be better if we could actually start doing, start saying this is where it will be? Congress has said, we're going to we're going to find a place for both of these incredible stories of our american history on the mall.
▶ 1:18:09>> uh, both the, uh, women's history museum and the national museum of american latino have been equally successful in raising funds, now approximately 70 million. But it is true, when you get, uh, federal, uh, support for the designation to the site, you actually have the site designated that does encourage and provide, uh, much more opportunity to raise funds after the site is designated.
▶ 1:18:36>> so let's get this site, let's get both of these sites designated, and then we'll continue that hard work raising the money to tell these incredible stories. The hero's journey that is america, that is about struggle, that is about overcoming all of the struggles we've had in this nation over the last 250 years. As we pursue that happiness that is part of our constitutional birthright.
▶ 1:19:02Uh, and with that, madam chair, um, well, see, wouldn't it be nice to be able to say madam chair all the time? Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> you don't want to have any Mr. chairman's. >> no. >> I don't mind a few, but. >> the gentlelady yields. I would just I would just point out to you that georgia o'keeffe has her roots in the state of wisconsin. She does. I'd like to recognize Mr. um, see, we're getting them all mixed up here. Um, miss malloy, uh, from utah.
▶ 1:19:30We'd like to recognize you for five. >> I thought you were going to call me madam chairman, which would be inaccurate, but flattering. Um, thank you, Mr. chairman. Um, Mr. lytle, I'm going to go over, uh, some legal truths that I know, you know, but just to set the stage for the questions I want to ask you. So congress has plenary jurisdiction over federal land and forest service has delegated authority from congress to manage national forests.
▶ 1:20:00And then we, congress, have an obligation to oversee how the forest service, forest service uses that delegated authority. Um, and this is the second hearing I've been in in the last month where we've had an issue in utah, where a local entity in counties in utah are trying to get something done on forest service land, and we've ended up having to write legislation to get it done.
▶ 1:20:27And then the forest service shows up at a hearing like this and says, we wish you would just wait and let it go through the administrative process. Uh, and the reason I want to talk through all that is because I think we have this upside down or backward or somehow out of order, where the agencies that congress authorized are coming and telling us to wait for the agencies to do their work, and that we shouldn't be legislating it.
▶ 1:20:53And generally, I think government should do whatever it's doing in the most efficient, most cost effective way that serves the people. And and I agree with you in theory, that administrative processes should be the most efficient, most cost effective way. But when we have people calling us and saying we've been trying to work with the forest service for years on what should be a simple permit, and we're not there yet, then legislation starts to look like it's actually more efficient.
▶ 1:21:21And while I agree that it should be easier to go into your local forest service office and work through a permitting process, that just doesn't seem to be the case. Um, and so we end up legislating and legislating is well within our, our job as legislators, but it's also well within our plenary jurisdiction on public land.
▶ 1:21:40So will you walk me through why forest service thinks that going through an administrative process to complete the bonneville shoreline trail is a better solution than legislation. >> congresswoman, thank you for the question. We feel like we are in a good place right now with the progress that we have made.
▶ 1:22:04As I mentioned earlier, we are six months away from construction on the trail, uh, perhaps a year away from construction on two bridges that would tie the trail through this parcel. That being said, uh, we want to work with the city, with the county, with this committee, with congress, uh, in whatever ways can do this most expeditiously.
▶ 1:22:22And we think right now, the where we are positioned, the administrative processes will will yield a result more quickly than a land conveyance might because of of some of the technical aspects of what we have to do to convey land. Now we we would be happy to talk with the committee, with the bill sponsor, uh, and others about what those technical issues might be to see if we could clarify and move forward in, in that way.
▶ 1:22:50But we feel like we're in a good place right now and, uh, look forward to continuing to work with the county and with the city. >> so can you tell me how long ago davis county started this process with the forest service? >> I do not know. Uh, this this is this. I cannot speak to anything, uh, to the long history that exists in this place. What I do know is that we are committed to working with the city and with the county to resolve this.
▶ 1:23:18We understand how important recreation is to the local community, to the citizens, uh, to economic development. And we are committed to working with the city and the county to make sure that that happens. >> I like hearing you say that, and I, I hope that we can get this done expeditiously. Excellent use of a $5 word.
▶ 1:23:35Um, but my notes say that it's been at least three years that the county has been trying to get this done, and this is this is creating access in an area that's mostly developed so that people can get out, enjoy the outdoors, get some exercise, um, enjoy the forest service and the land that's in their backyard. It just seems like we've got to come up with a better solution. We're doing these hearings about really simple permits isn't the most efficient way to solve problems.
▶ 1:24:03Um, we created agencies to serve the people, and it it seems like what we're getting is a lot of roadblocks and a lot of stalling. I mean, even your answer, which I think is an accurate and fair answer, is that if we do a conveyance, then there's more process that's going to take even longer. And the process is supposed to facilitate solutions, not be the reason we never get to solutions. And I see that I'm out of time. So with that, I will yield quickly in five seconds. Mr. cortez, I also support the idea of having a women's history museum.
▶ 1:24:33>> thank you. >> gentlelady yields I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, Mr. neguse, for his question. >> thank you. >> Mr. chairman. Thank you to our witnesses. And of course, thank you to the members and apologies. Thank you for indulging me as we have multiple committee proceedings today. But, uh, it is a pleasure and a privilege to be here and to continue doing our important work addressing the wildfire crisis.
▶ 1:24:57I'm grateful to my colleague, representative min from california, for his leadership on the brushfires act, a vital step towards mitigating wildfire risk in sagebrush and ecosystems requiring unique tools from other forested areas. Of course, I know we're also discussing today the bill led by senator king of maine, uh, to expand the waters national monument in maine, uh, supported by a wide variety of different stakeholders. Certainly grateful that the smithsonian is represented here today to share their views on h.r.
▶ 1:25:251329, the smithsonian american women's history museum act, a bipartisan bill that's been cosponsored by more than half of the house. And certainly time that we enacted into law. Uh, I would be remiss if I didn't similarly urge consideration of h.r. 1330 smithsonian national museum of the american latino act. Uh, these key institutions deserve prominent places on the national mall to lift up stories that add to the incredible fabric of our country.
▶ 1:25:53Especially important as we mark the 250th anniversary of this country. We'll also consider representative heard's bill, my friend from colorado. H.r. 5911. The crystal reservoir conveyance act appreciate his leadership on that particular piece of legislation. Know how important it is to, uh, western colorado, which we both, uh, proudly serve, and certainly supportive of that bill. And I know that we'll also be discussing the lasso act from my friend from arizona. I suspect he knows my views on that bill.
▶ 1:26:22Uh, given that we've had discussions on that in the past in this committee. Uh, and, uh, while I disagree with, uh, the legislation, I look forward to the robust discussion that I know will have on the same. With that, I want to say thank you to both of our witnesses for being here. Uh, I know that my colleague, the ranking member, covered some ground, Mr. cortez, with you regarding the directives that the white house have issued to the smithsonian.
▶ 1:26:52Uh, that I found, I find rather profoundly problematic. But I also recognize you are a career official at the smithsonian. And so, uh, in light of that, I will simply say that I echo the sentiments that were expressed by the ranking member with the hope that you and your colleagues at the smithsonian, those who have jurisdiction or authority over this particular issue, will come back to us with the information that he requested.
▶ 1:27:20You can imagine, as we mark black history month this month, on the heels of celebrating the first martin luther king day holiday in which, uh, national parks no longer had a fee holiday. By virtue of this administration's decision, and in light of that letter that was issued to the smithsonian, you can imagine the concern of me and many of my colleagues. So, um, anyway, I'm not necessarily a question. Just want to to reiterate Mr. huffman's concerns. >> I noted, and I will convey your concerns.
▶ 1:27:52>> uh, and secondly, Mr. lytle of a similar vein, because I know that you are also a career official, as you might imagine. Uh, we I'll speak for myself, but I think I can fairly say on my side of the aisle has some very profound disagreements with the way in which the department of agriculture, uh, is administering a variety of different programs impacting our national forests through your agency.
▶ 1:28:18And one of those is the reality of the administration's plan to eliminate regional research hubs. And while I know that's not, uh, I suspect it isn't a plan that you helped devise or author, given that you were formerly the head of the research, uh, at the forest service before your current position. You can disabuse me of that.
▶ 1:28:43Obviously, if I'm wrong on that front, were you involved in the the plan to eliminate research hubs, I take it? No. >> uh, ranking member douglas. No, I was not directly involved in those discussions.
▶ 1:28:58>> and so I would just simply say, uh, you know, rather than belaboring this and, um, and hectoring you, I think really what we need is testimony from the political appointees within the department of agriculture and the department of interior about the reorganization plans, among many other issues, uh, which I think, again, as I said, are substantive disagreements.
▶ 1:29:22And that, uh, is less a question to you and I think more, uh, a signal to our chairman here and for the chairman of the full committee that we're overdue for an oversight hearing in that regard, so that we can ask some tough questions about both of the subjects that I just mentioned. But with that said, I will yield back the remaining one second of my time. >> ranking member yields. I now recognize Mr. gosar from arizona for five minutes of questioning. >> well, thank you very much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:29:50Doctor lytle, in your testimony, you mentioned the forest service opposes the lasso act as currently written because revenues are not defined. We agree. Would you commit to a conversation to further discuss the mechanics of this bill and identify eligible funding sources? >> congressman. Absolutely. >> gotcha. Well, you know, I for long have been have seen our problems with public lands. And we seem to get more, more and more regulations to them and they get walled off from us.
▶ 1:30:23And if I know one thing, you have to power the people to have that jurisdiction. Would you also agree on that? >> I'm sorry, sir, would you mind repeating. >> that the public lands are public lands, not bureaucrats lands, right? >> absolutely. >> yeah, yeah. Now, the secure rural schools program was created to supplement the loss of revenue from the decreases in local timber sales on federal lands. President trump's march 2025 executive order expanding domestic timber production was an important step. To solve this problem.
▶ 1:30:53Are the us forest service lands currently being used to their maximum potential under the multiple use doctrine? >> congressman, thanks for the question. We are focused on a number of priorities timber management, timber production being one of them, but also oil and gas development, mineral development, uh, while in fire mitigation as well as recreational opportunities, we are focusing on all of those and trying to deliver those for the american people. >> so as you're describing the flpma or the taylor grazing act, uh, jurisdiction would not be.
▶ 1:31:26>> uh. Yes, sir. >> okay, so last summer, northern northern arizona was devastated by the dragon bravo fire. Forest management techniques like thinning and grazing mitigate the risk of wildfires. But the biden-harris administration failed to responsibly manage the forest service lands. What successful techniques has president trump and secretary rollins deployed to mitigate these wildfire risks? >> congressman, again, thanks for the question.
▶ 1:31:52Uh, as I mentioned, we are focused on a number of key priorities, and we are working very hard to mitigate wildland fire risk across the country, especially in those places with immediate risk to lives, property and infrastructure. >> so I guess since I got a little time here, I guess I'll go down this adventure ring road. Um, so there's lots of opportunities within the public sector, right? You know, teddy roosevelt took a lot of lands into custody, and thank god he did.
▶ 1:32:22But then the taylor grazing act, people came and collected a lot of the other ones. They used the word must and shall, right. >> yes, sir, as far as I understand. Yes. Yeah. >> and, um. Grazing rights now, grazing was supposed to be improved, was it not. You had to improve it year to year. Right. >> uh, I'm sorry, sir, could you repeat that? >> yes.
▶ 1:32:49The grazing rights under the taylor grazing act was you had to improve the grazing rights. Right. >> sir, that is a little bit beyond my area of expertise. But what I what I can tell you about our approach to grazing is that we are working very hard under the secretary's direction to expand access and expand grazing opportunities on forest service lands. >> so you'll agree with that multiple use doctrine then, that you have many things going on at the same time in a piece of land. >> oh, absolutely, sir, every day.
▶ 1:33:21>> well, I'll yield back. >> gentleman yields. And I now recognize the gentleman from colorado for his questioning. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Deputy chief little, thanks for being here. And I appreciate the constructive testimony you gave on my bill, the crystal reservoir conveyance act. And that bill includes a number of terms and provisions meant to protect federal and public interests.
▶ 1:33:47And I'm just actually reading from your testimony things like, uh, the bill requiring the city to grant an easement for each trail and road in existence as the data conveyance, the city of of ouray taking responsibility for the costs of the full moon dam and related infrastructure. The city maintaining the land in perpetuity for public access and recreational activities.
▶ 1:34:11The bill would also prohibit development, commercial operations, construction other than as needed for maintenance and operation of the dam and the reservoir, and would also prohibit expanding the historical footprint of crystal reservoir in a manner that would harm any of the wetlands that are upstream. Can you comment on those parts of the bill, and on protecting federal and public interests more generally? >> congressman, thanks for the question.
▶ 1:34:38Uh, we value the partnership that we have developed with the city of ouray, and we share many of the goals, actually, probably all of the goals that the city has for that property. We are generally supportive of the bill, and we have a few technical areas of of interest that we would like to work out regarding water rates, for instance, and regarding, uh, a drainage ditch, uh, water conveyance ditch that we would like to make sure that we are handling properly. >> was this the red mountain ditch or. >> it is, yes.
▶ 1:35:08>> it is great. Um, terrific. Happy to look at that with you from the forest service perspective, does transferring ownership to a capable and willing local government reduce federal liability associated with aging infrastructure, like, for example, the full moon dam. >> congressman, in this case, absolutely. The full moon dam, uh, we know has some structural deficiencies that we are concerned about, which is why we open the head gates.
▶ 1:35:34Uh, and we are very pleased that the city is willing to, to partner with us and take responsibility for that. That's a that's a wonderful step. And we look forward to working with the city on that. >> great. And given the forest service's deferred maintenance backlog, can you talk a little bit about what a locally funded conveyance like this does, uh, with respect to the agency's long term fiscal and operational responsibilities?
▶ 1:35:59>> congressman, you are correct that we have a substantial deferred maintenance backlog and all of the public private support that we can generate, uh, to help address those those issues is welcomed. Uh, and this is one example of a, of a public public partnership that I think can really serve the public's good. >> perfect. Thank you so much. Uh, deputy chief little. With that, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> gentleman yields. I now recognize the gentleman from utah, Mr. moore, for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you. Chairman, I really appreciate, uh, gentlelady from utah, Mrs. molloy's.
▶ 1:36:29Um, uh, involvement in this. And then what she just communicated and the questions that she has and your guys's interaction fully associate myself with that. And what I want to build on that. The only thing I care about here, and I'm and sincere and as transparent as, as as I can say, it is a proper outcome. So that's all I care about. I want a proper outcome for my community, my constituents and the area that I represent.
▶ 1:36:54We both actually share this county, um, and care deeply that this gets handled. That's that's it. Um, it's very simple. What what is the goal? What is the outcome? The outcome is access, maintenance and stability. For the bonneville shoreline trail. It's one of the most unique elements, um, along the wasatch front in our, in, in our entire region.
▶ 1:37:19Um, for recreation, we need different, different sections of this to be, um, continuous. We've done multiple things like this. Uh, representative, when he was in congress, when he was in the house, representative curtis had done bonneville shoreline trail work. This has always been something that's been collaborative, recognized that there's a need. Um, I believe it is. It is a shared goal and something that we can accomplish here. So, uh, a few questions for discussion.
▶ 1:37:48Doctor lytle, is there any laws that prohibit the forest service from continuing work on federal land when a proposed land conveyance is being considered by congress? >> uh, congressman, I don't have direct knowledge of all of the laws that might apply, but to my knowledge, no. Uh, but we can get back to you with more specific information on that.
▶ 1:38:09>> would it be reasonable for the forest service to pull out of ongoing, or would it be normal to pull out of ongoing conversations with a local government as a result of land conveyance being considered, maybe not yet enacted, but being considered by congress?
▶ 1:38:26>> congressman, it is our goal to work hand in hand with the communities in in which we exist and where we partner, uh, and, uh, and in this case, uh, we want to continue to work with the city of fruit heights, with the county, uh, to ensure that we can connect the trail through this parcel. >> and mentioned other experiences with congress, local and forest service, where we've done that numerous times in our in our communities.
▶ 1:38:50Will you commit the forest service to meeting with my office, the city of fruit heights and davis county, to coordinate efforts with this land and sign a memorandum of understanding that creates a clear timeline for work to be completed of this land, regardless of the status of this bill, before it could get signed into law. >> congressman, we are more than happy.
▶ 1:39:11We look forward to sitting down with your office, with the city, with the county to work out the details of implementation of a plan for, uh, for finishing the trail work, uh, in this parcel, whether whether an mou is the right mechanism I can't speak to. There may be other mechanisms that would would serve that purpose. But yes, we will absolutely sit down with you. And I commit to that. >> our concern is that we that this isn't just a communicate we want.
▶ 1:39:38I think there needs to be something concrete that that's what the concern is here, right, is that we've got to have this to be concrete, not just because there's threat of legislation like this is this is good legislation. The city has come to us. This is something that that they want. I'm ready to move forward with it. This is, um, I really appreciate the committee for being, uh, willing to to move this in a, in a good, solid way that has viability. But if we can if we can get this done, like, we're all in as well.
▶ 1:40:07Uh, and, um, we look forward to being able to, to, to finalize those plans. With that, I yield back. Gentleman. Yes. Yes, please. >> yes. I wanted to ask one more question, chief. Or uh, uh, doctor, um, people would take care of the land. If they were given custody of that. Would you agree?
▶ 1:40:32>> congressman, I think that's a more there's a larger question that you're asking there about the responsibility for public lands, and we are entrusted with the care of the public lands that the forest service is entrusted with. And we we do our very best to to care for those lands under conveyance where those lands may be transferred to another jurisdiction. We will work with those jurisdictions to make sure that that happens. Well, uh, and that, uh, we, we do this in the right way.
▶ 1:40:59>> I guess my whole point is stewardship is is closest to the land of the peoples of the land. Right? You would agree with that, congressman? >> absolutely. Stewardship is a responsibility of those who are there on the land. Uh, whether that's our our federal employees who care very deeply about the lands that they are entrusted with, the the other local governments that we work with or private individuals. >> I yield back. >> thank you.
▶ 1:41:25Um, I'll just briefly end with, like, we're so committed to this, and we appreciate your testimony. Um, I think there is plenty of precedent in our state to be able to get this done. We look forward to working together. And I also support the women's history museum. Okay, there you go. >> does the gentleman yield? Thank you. If there are no further questions, we will now move on to our third and final panel. I'd like to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony. You are now dismissed.
▶ 1:41:55While the clerk resets your witness table, I will remind the witnesses that under committee rules, they must limit their oral statements to five minutes. But their entire statement will appear in the hearing record. I'd also like to remind our witnesses of the timing lights, which will turn red at the end of your five minute statement, and to please remember to turn on your microphone when you speak. As with the second panel, I will allow all witnesses to testify before member questioning.
▶ 1:43:21First, I'd like to recognize the gentleman from colorado, Mr. hurd, for 30s to introduce our first witness. >> thank you, madam chair. It's my pleasure to briefly introduce our witness from colorado's third congressional district, michelle matier. Michelle currently serves as the administrator of ouray, where she is leading efforts to responsibly manage and maintain critical water infrastructure, including the crystal reservoir and halfmoon dam. Michelle brings more than 15 years of municipal leadership experience from her time with the town of minturn, culminating in her role as town manager.
▶ 1:43:51She is a graduate of colorado state university and has degrees in biology and organizational leadership, and with those degrees, she combines technical knowledge with strong administrative expertise. I appreciate her willingness to share her insights today and look very much forward to her testimony. Thank you, madam chair. And with that, I yield back. >> thank you, representative hurd. I will now recognize miss michelle matier, city administrator for the city of ouray, colorado. Miss matier, you're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:44:21>> thank you. >> chairman tiffany, ranking member and members of the subcommittee on behalf of mayor underwood and the entire city council, I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to testify on the crystal reservoir conveyance act. I would also like to very much thank representative hurd for his leadership in sponsoring this bill and introducing it during a government shutdown.
▶ 1:44:41Given the urgency of enabling the city of ouray to take ownership, repair the full moon dam, and refill the reservoir, the crystal reservoir conveyance act directs the secretary of agriculture to convey approximately 45 acres of land underlying and surrounding crystal reservoir and full moon dam to the city of ouray, colorado.
▶ 1:45:03We are here today because the reservoir has been drained while the united states forest service reviews the options available for addressing the repairs and maintenance needed to operate the full moon dam, the city recognizes the need for improvements and repairs to the full moon dam in order to refill the reservoir, and due to our dependance on the reservoir's storage water, along with other benefits this asset provides, we are uniquely positioned to execute the proper repairs and ongoing maintenance of this facility
▶ 1:45:33While simultaneously supporting this asset, remaining open and accessible to the public. The benefits of the crystal reservoir conveyance act include one. The restoration of local control, local control two the repair and refill of crystal reservoir while relieving the united states forest service from the burdens of operational costs, maintenance, and liability.
▶ 1:45:56While this bill allows for the conveyance to occur at no cost to the city, in exchange, the city will assume all future costs and liability for repairing the full moon dam and refilling the reservoir within the original footprint of the lake. The congressionally directed conveyance is the most efficient and effective way to swiftly restore crystal reservoir's function and beauty.
▶ 1:46:20The city will work with the state of colorado, the division of water resources, the department of natural resources, the design and dam safety engineer along with the city works, public works, engineering and legal teams to implement the repairs at its own expense, the city will take responsibility for all future operations and maintenance of crystal reservoir, full moon dam and associated infrastructure, also at its own expense.
▶ 1:46:46Three restore drought resistance and water security that was lost when crystal reservoir was drained. Ownership of crystal reservoir will enable the city of ouray to enhance water security for its residents, improve drought resilience, and implement conservation strategies consistent with the colorado water plans objectives. Additionally, the city of ouray currently has decreed water rights for the exchange and storage of crystal reservoir through the red mountain ditch. The city needs.
▶ 1:47:15This augmentation water from crystal reservoir to legally and reliably operate its municipal water system. Under colorado law, particularly during times of low flow conditions for repair, a critical public safety and wildfire response asset where it is needed most. With increasing threats of wildfire in the san juan mountains, the reservoir serves a critical role in regional wildfire mitigation.
▶ 1:47:41Ouray county sheriff justin perry has expressed the need for this critical resource as follows. Quote. Crystal is a crucial water source for fast, effective fire suppression to ensure we're prepared for future emergencies, it's imperative that we refill this reservoir and make it a key asset in our wildfire response strategy, unquote. Five provide permanent protections for free and full public access to the reservoir and adjacent national forest lands.
▶ 1:48:11The crystal reservoir conveyance act includes strict requirements to keep the land as undeveloped public open space, with free access for fishing and trails in perpetuity. Six the upstream fen and wetlands ecosystems will be protected from impairment or harm from the operation of the reservoir. Seven the city will safeguard all valid existing rights while prohibiting future development and related conflicts, and will return crystal reservoir and full moon dam to the status quo.
▶ 1:48:42Conditions and uses enjoyed over the last 90 years. And lastly, the crystal reservoir conveyance act will satisfy broad and strong local support for the conveyance, repair and restoration of this resource. We have broad support from the red mountain project proponents that purchase crystal reservoir over two decades ago.
▶ 1:49:00We also have support from local entities, including the colorado river district, the ouray county sheriff's office, and board of county commissioners, many neighboring municipalities, as well as watershed trail and historical organizations. I would especially like to thank ouray county commissioner lynn padgett for her support of this conveyance, including joining us here today. This concludes my testimony, and I'm happy to answer questions from the committee. Thank you. >> thank you, miss matier.
▶ 1:49:30I will now recognize Mr. moore from utah for 30s to introduce his witness. >> thank you. Chairwoman. Um, I'm honored. And one of my favorite things to be able to introduce, um, local officials in these hearings. Darren fransen is the fruit heights city manager. Uh, he has had a little bit of time in public service.
▶ 1:49:52Uh, in, in previously a city works um, city works director and has been working for the city for, I believe, over 30 years. Um, brings a wealth of knowledge and I look forward to your testimony. Thank you for being here, Mr. fransen. >> thank you, Mr. moore. I will now recognize Mr. darren fransen, city manager of fruit heights city, utah. Mr. fransen, you are recognized for five minutes. >> chair and ranking.
▶ 1:50:20>> member and honorable members of the subcommittee on the federal lands. Thank you for inviting me to testify for fruit heights city's land conveyance act. I appreciate congresswoman blake moore and his office for their continued work and support on this legislation. My name is darren fransen. I have worked for fruit heights city since 1993, beginning in the parks department, later serving as public works director, and for the past two years as city manager.
▶ 1:50:47Fruit heights is a small bedroom community of approximately 6000 residents, and is nearly 97% built out. The city is located in davis county, utah, approximately 20 miles north of salt lake city. It is situated along the east branch of the wasatch mountain, commonly known or referred to as the wasatch front, and is directly adjacent to a critical, yet partially unconstructed gap in the bonneville shoreline trail. The best.
▶ 1:51:15In 2023, fruit heights began to explore opportunities to add additional recreational trails to those that have already been built. One of these trails is known as the fruit loops mountain bike trails. The fruit loops are used by local high school mountain bike teams for training and competitions, families, recreation, biking groups, and riders of all ages and skill levels.
▶ 1:51:38The fruit loops have become a popular destination not only from surrounding communities, but all of davis county. I personally have talked to families that had heard about the fruit loops and came to see and ride fruit loops from idaho. With very limited open space remaining within the city boundaries.
▶ 1:52:00Former mayor john pullman in early 2024, began working with the us forest service to explore opportunities to add additional trails on the forest service property. Fruit heights submitted a formal request to the salt lake city. Um forest service. Uh mayor pullman.
▶ 1:52:17And city staff actually met on site with the forest service representatives to discuss the potential of trails, locations, uh, on the forest service property and the city's long term vision for recreation and connectivity. While the forest service did not object to the proposed trail system, they identified several requirements that would need to be addressed, including issues related to the bst.
▶ 1:52:44The bonneville shoreline trail is a popular scenic multi-use trail designated designed to follow the ancient shoreline prehistoric lake bonneville along the foothills of the wasatch front, davis county, along with other counties municipalities, has worked with the forest service for many years to construct and connect this regional trail system. Challenges associated with the segment of fruit heights have slowed the progress in this area, resulting in the city missing a grand opportunity for which it otherwise would have qualified.
▶ 1:53:16In response, mayor pullman discussed potential ways to streamline and accelerate the process, which led to discussion with congressman moore regarding to the possibility of conveying the land to fruit heights and to the city of farmington. The best alignment now has been determined, and the portion above fruit heights is scheduled to start, uh, summer of 2026.
▶ 1:53:39If everything is correct with the forest service in the county, fruit heights supports the building of the bst and appreciates all the work that davis county and the forests have done to this point. The goal of this land is conveyance is to preserve undeveloped, open space that will remain protected from development, provide recreational opportunities for fruit heights residents and surrounding communities by building additional trails connecting the cities of farmington, fruit heights and kaysville to the shoreline trail, supporting local schools
▶ 1:54:12Through accessible trail systems, and encourage residents to engage in activities. Fruit heights is committed to expanding recreational opportunities for residents and visitors. Communities that promote outdoor activity and access to recreation can experience improved public health outcomes and reduce long term health costs by preserving open space and developing accessible trail systems, fruit heights seeks to create a lasting benefit for its residents and for the wasatch front as a whole.
▶ 1:54:41Thank you for your time and your consideration and I am available for questions you'll have for me. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. franzen. Um, I'd now like to recognize Mr. chris ham, president of orange county firefighters iaff local 3631. Mr. ham, you're recognized for five minutes. >> good afternoon, miss molloy. And subcommittee members, thank you for this opportunity to testify today. My name is chris ham. I'm a fire captain, and I have the honor of being the president of orange county.
▶ 1:55:11Professional firefighters representing 1200 men and women that serve 23 cities, county, unincorporated area, state and federal lands, including areas that border the cleveland national forest in southern california. The line between wildland and built space is no longer a line. It is a blur. Our homes, schools, hospitals and critical infrastructure sit directly against shrublands, canyons and federal forest. So what starts as a brush fire on a slope becomes an urban problem in minutes.
▶ 1:55:39The coastal fire in laguna niguel in may of 2022 is a clear example of this. A rapidly moving brush fire outside our typical fire season and without significant winds, ignited a dry coastal vegetation. It burned roughly 200 acres, destroyed 20 homes valued at nearly $200 million, while damaging at least a dozen more, all in a community in south orange county that the layperson would characterize as a suburban community.
▶ 1:56:04To make matters worse, this community had defensible space and was built with strict wildfire construction codes. Those homes were not remote cabins. They were multimillion dollar residents in a dense coastal community with steep slopes and limited ways out. High localized wind, drought stress brush and invasive grasses allowed that fire to run quickly up canyon walls and into backyards, overwhelming well prepared, defensible space and pre-positioned home hose lines.
▶ 1:56:34Subsequent investigations have tied the ignition to electrical equipment, showing how quickly a spark in the wildland urban interface can translate into mass evacuation event, with families fleeing for their lives. Thanks to the rapid response and hard work of our firefighters, no deaths were attributed this incident. We saw the other side of this problem with the airport fire adjacent to the cleveland national forest on september 2024, and ultimately burned 23,000 acres across orange and riverside counties, primarily under the jurisdiction of the cleveland national forest.
▶ 1:57:03That fire threatened and destroyed homes and communities like el carrizo village, decker canyon, and burned through recreational cabins on federal lands and forced long term closures in trabuco ranger district to protect public safety because of hazards like unstable slopes, damaged roads and tree fall risk. That forest now is kept under much of that burn scar closed in 2026.
▶ 1:57:26From a firefighter's perspective, there's a fundamental operational difference between fast moving fires and light, flashy fuels and fires burning in heavy timber and large 10,000 hour fuels in the light fuels that dominate our coastal slopes and much of the wildland urban interface. Annual grasses, invasive weeds and shrublands fires ignite easily, respond almost instantly to wind, and erase any meaningful separation between the wildland and structures.
▶ 1:57:54In heavy timber and large down material, fire behavior can be intense and long duration, but the boundary between the forest and develop area is often more defined, which allows for clear planning, constructed fuel breaks, and defensive tactics around structures. The challenge in southern california is that we have both conditions layered together. A fire may start in light, flashy fuels below a neighborhood quickly transition into structure fires as embers land on roofs and in backyards and then run into the forest.
▶ 1:58:22Heavier brush and timber on federal wildlands, becoming a large, long duration incident like the airport fire. That means when we respond, we are simultaneously managing a wildland fire, multiple structure fires and a federal land incident often being managed by the initial responding units. Fire is and always has been part of our natural landscape.
▶ 1:58:41But what we're seeing now is not the historic fire regimen for those ecosystems year after year fires, prolonged drought, prolonged drought and the spread of invasive grasses and weeds have fundamentally altered the shrubland ecosystems like chaparral and coastal sage scrub, these invasives create continuous carpets of fine fuel that dry early, carry fire farther and faster, and then reestablish quickly after a burn, along with more developments encouraging encroaching into the wildland.
▶ 1:59:08We're locked into a cycle of shorter fire return intervals, higher intensity, and more frequent structure loss at the edge of communities. This is exactly the pattern along our coastal slopes and canyons draining into the cleveland national forest. That is why I'm here in strong support of congressman dave min brushfires act. Our frontline firefighters and communities we protect. This bill matters because it acknowledges that shrubland fire is its own problem, not just a smaller version of a forest fire.
▶ 1:59:35It will force a hard look at which stages which strategies work under southern california's wind slope and fuel conditions, where we should prioritize treatments in the wildland urban interface, and what policy and budget barriers keep us from doing the right work in the right places. In my view, the brushfire act is not an academic exercise. It is a necessary step towards a realistic, shrubland specific playbook for places exactly like communities my members serve.
▶ 2:00:02I urge the subcommittee to advance the brushfires act, and to pair it with sustained support for implementing its findings in shrubland dominated, high value, high population regions like southern california. Our firefighters are ready to do the work. We need the federal government to give us a specific science, policy and tools to match the threats we face. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. ham. Next, I'd like to introduce miss margaret byfield, executive director of american stewards of liberty.
▶ 2:00:31Miss byfield, you're now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. Do I say chairman? Chairwoman malloy? >> you can, if you'd like. >> okay. I'm. Since we had a nice switch thanks to, uh, your bill. So, chairman malloy, representative gosar and honorable members of this committee, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the importance of passing the land and social security optimization act. The lasso act. My name is margaret byfield.
▶ 2:00:59I serve as the executive director of american stewards of liberty, and we're a property rights organization that has been around for about 34 years. Uh, we have members all across the nation, many of whom are the people who steward our federal lands.
▶ 2:01:15They are the ranchers, farmers, timber producers, miners, oil and gas developers, hunters and recreationists the people who have made these lands their homes and who support our vital rural communities. I was raised on a large livestock operation in nevada, where we held the right to graze lands managed by the forest service and the blm.
▶ 2:01:40Through both personal and professional experience, I have seen the damage caused to families, communities and economies when our federal lands are not utilized as congress intended. This is why I believe the lasso act is needed.
▶ 2:01:54First, it will highlight the federal mismanagement of these lands and help correct this by creating a direct link for every american citizen to benefit from the important multiple uses of our natural resources. Second, it incentivizes the proper stewardship of these lands by tying the citizens prosperity to the flourishing of our abundant natural resources.
▶ 2:02:20And third, the bill helps accomplish the original purpose for these lands. Multiple use and sustained yield. It is congress that determines the purposes for these lands, not the federal agencies. And this body has made a distinction between lands that are to be protected and lands that are to be productively used.
▶ 2:02:41Those that are protected are done so through laws such as national parks act, wilderness act, wild and scenic rivers act, national wildlife refuge act, and more. The remaining federally owned lands outside of what is owned by the department of defense are generally identified as multiple use lands.
▶ 2:03:00These have been set aside for the specific purpose of providing our nation with the natural resource commodities we need to support the health, safety and welfare of the people and the continued prosperity of our nation. Congress has directed the federal agencies to manage these lands in such a manner that all of the uses can concur, can occur concurrently, as appropriate.
▶ 2:03:26When any of these agencies determined that the lands must be restricted, conserved or locked up, it is an admission that they have failed in the charge given to them by this body. We have seen this occur in the west, where the federal government owns roughly 50% of our land.
▶ 2:03:44Most recently, the blm attempted to circumvent congress and administratively change the purposes of these lands from multiple use to a conservation policy that eliminated all other uses. The productivity of these lands is vitally important to the local communities that steward these resources. The federal government does not pay property taxes as a private landowner would.
▶ 2:04:10It is the revenue generated from the commodities produced that make up this deficit. In simple terms, if the people cannot utilize the natural resources, the dependent communities die. There will be no close services that can quickly rescue a stranded hiker or injured hunter. No gas stations and grocery stores, no necessary services that allow the public an opportunity to enjoy these lands.
▶ 2:04:37It is a simple principle when the people's livelihoods are tied to the productivity of these lands, they take better care of the resources. This is why private lands are more productive than the federal lands. The small landowners entire paycheck, now and in the future is determined by how well they take care of their land today, not by how much they extract. They must steward their property so that it continues to produce resources well into the future.
▶ 2:05:03That land is a small landowners 401 k retirement plan, and it's what they leave to their children. In the same way, the lasso act ties every citizen's future social security retirement funds to the productivity of our federal lands. It creates an intrinsic motivation for all of us to support actions that foster better stewardship of these lands. This brings us back to the reason we need the lasso act.
▶ 2:05:30It also allows americans to directly benefit from the productivity these lands as a part of their retirement. Uh, I was going to close with a story, but I think I'm going to run out of time. So let me just conclude. The lasso act, I think, is just a really smart approach that ties together everything that we should be driving from these federal lands and lets everybody benefit from them. >> thank you, miss byfield, for your testimony.
▶ 2:05:59Now, I'd like to recognize miss jane abraham, former chair of the american museum of women's history congressional commission. Ma'am, you have five minutes. >> Mr. chairman. Mr. ranking member and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to join you here today. This committee is being asked to approve a narrow land transfer necessary to carry out a decision congress has already made, and the smithsonian has already validated.
▶ 2:06:28I proudly stand in support of house resolution 1329 to permit the smithsonian american women's history museum to be located within the reserve of the national mall, and to transfer the land to the smithsonian for that use. While I currently serve as co-chair of the advisory council for the smithsonian american women's history museum, I have personally been involved with the creation and establishment of the museum for over a decade.
▶ 2:06:56In 2014, I was senator mcconnell's appointee to the american women's history museum congressional commission, empaneled to determine the feasibility of establishing a women's history museum and recommend a pathway forward. If we concluded such an institution should be established. That bipartisan commission was composed of eight women from different professions, regions and backgrounds, and I was elected as chair. I often tell the story of the first time the eight of us met.
▶ 2:07:22Given that we were selected in a political setting with four of us republican and four of us democrat, you might say we were all a bit apprehensive about the situation. Well, that lasted about ten minutes as we went around the room to introduce ourselves and articulate why each of us had agreed to this assignment, it became clear that there was far more that connected us than divided us. We all envisioned a place that represented everyone and shined a light on the many roles and accomplishments of women that no one knew about.
▶ 2:07:53So we simply kicked politics to the side, rolled up our sleeves, and got to work. After 18 months of work, the commission unanimously recommended that such a museum was needed and should be part of the smithsonian. The commission focused much of its effort on determining where this museum should be located. We established a list of ten key criteria on which to evaluate potential sites, including location, private and public funding, attractiveness, visitor attractiveness, and public transportation access.
▶ 2:08:23We did an extensive review of dozens of potential sites, including reuse and off mall sites, but determined that the south monument site met the commission's criteria and desire for a prominent location on the mall. As one of our preferred sites. Since congress passed the legislation establishing the museum and president trump signed it into law, there has been a groundswell of bipartisan support from women and men throughout the country, and already over $71 million has been raised.
▶ 2:08:52While great progress is being made in terms of raising private funds and generating support for the museum, congressional approval is needed for the land to build the physical museum in 2022. After a rigorous process examining over two dozen locations, the smithsonian board of regents recommended the south monument site as the optimal location for the museum. Each year, millions of visitors come to the national mall to learn about the past and present of our nation.
▶ 2:09:19This location and a new structure are paramount to ensuring the success of the museum. Just as importantly, it is where women should be represented at the forefront of history on america's front lawn, illuminating their stories in an originally designed building that reflects the spirit, essence and strength of american women. This bill is needed to transfer this land to the smithsonian.
▶ 2:09:45I want to thank representative malliotakis for sponsoring this legislation and representatives chu, de la cruz and dingell for being original co-sponsors as well as the other co-sponsors, including several of you on this committee. The bipartisan list of 230 co-sponsors is testimony to the widespread support this museum has throughout the country, and the commitment for it to be built on the national mall. In closing, I'd like to emphasize the following points.
▶ 2:10:12First, this is not authorizing legislation for the museum. Congress has already authorized it. And second, this is not appropriation legislation. There's no request for funding in this bill. This legislation's purpose is to allow the museum to have a home to be built on the national mall, alongside many other smithsonian buildings accessible to visitors from all over the world.
▶ 2:10:36We urge congress to support this legislation and provide us with a site that can serve as the primary repository of america's artifacts, stories, and memories of the contributions that american women have made to this country's founding and its experiences since. I appreciate the opportunity to testify today, I encourage unanimous support for this legislation and I would be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you for your testimony, miss abraham. Thank you for all the work that you've put into this over the years.
▶ 2:11:06It's greatly appreciated. We're going to move on to questions. I'm going to start out with a couple questions. Miss byfield, I have a question in regards to the lasso act. Um, uh, do you think it effectively incentivizes, um, I think something you cited to make our, um, public lands more productive. >> yeah, absolutely.
▶ 2:11:27I think the more we can get the people tied, the people people involved in the policy outcomes, the more we're going to see better stewardship of the land and productivity of the land. And this is just a core principle of stewardship. Um, and representative gosar alluded to it earlier in his questions. >> the and do you believe it leads to better management of our federal lands, because we've seen some of our federal lands that have really just went into disrepair.
▶ 2:11:55And it's one of the objections that I've had is that, um, you know, before buying more land, as the federal government has contemplated, it's much like a homeowner whose roof is leaking. Why would you buy another home next to you if you can't take care of what you have now? Um, doesn't this incentivize better management of our federal lands? >> absolutely. I think if you trim the federal agency's budget, it's going to create more efficiencies.
▶ 2:12:24And let me give you an example, a real life example two. Two summers ago, we were in jackson hole with the western caucus, and the forest service drove us by land outside of jackson that they wanted to purchase or the government wanted to purchase for $100 million. Then they get us up to the forest service site and give a presentation and explain that they need $218 million for backlog of maintenance.
▶ 2:12:51And I think all of us were sitting there thinking, why are you trying to purchase more land? And we can't take care of what we have. So yes, the what this does is it incentivizes them by trimming the budget really by 10% and paying the american people first. >> thank you for that. And I yield back. And I now recognize the author of the lasso act, Mr. gosar, for his questions.
▶ 2:13:18>> miss byfield, we're going to kind of go down memory lane as a state. Okay. So can you describe what is in the equal footing clause? >> well, the equal footing means that the states as they came into the union should should be on equal footing with the other states. They should have been able to own their land. >> right. And there you go. That's what I was after. Now, how has the government actually rewarded that? They gave us pilt and secure rural schools. Right. There's pennies on the dollar that they promised us.
▶ 2:13:49Right. >> say that again. >> it's pennies on the dollar. What they promised. Right? >> yes. Those that never comes close to actually paying for what? What they should be paid and they're never fully authorized. >> unbelievable is unbelievable. So now, um. Where does the multiple use doctrine originate? It's not a new concept, is it? And is it mandatory? >> yes, it is mandatory.
▶ 2:14:13Taylor grazing act is really the one that that brought that forward, although it was a concept long before that. Yeah. >> um, some say the lasso act only benefits energy development. Development under the multiple use doctrine of flpma. What other ways can these public lands be used? >> well, so multiple use. The brilliance of that concept is that a a rancher can be grazed in the land.
▶ 2:14:41At the same time, the minor can be used in that land and mining it, and oil and gas can be produced and timber can be harvested all in the same piece of land, as well as recreationists have access to it. And really, when you have all those uses occurring on the land, they work together intrinsically. They support each other. And and for instance, the rancher is the one who puts in the water developments.
▶ 2:15:06So like on our ranch, we made sure we had water every three miles, because that's about what livestock needs in that area. Well, developing those waters means that also means the wildlife has more water. And so we see as livestock grazing increases and the waters were developed, so does wildlife. So those two things are intrinsic mining oil and gas, timber they produce.
▶ 2:15:29They develop a lot of the roads that allow hunters and recreationists to get back into very remote areas that otherwise they'd never be able to see. So there are all of those industries work together intrinsically and improve the land and really make it a better experience for all americans. >> so the lasso act were enacted. Do you think it's success in leveraging those public lands to bolster social security? It would it would bolster social security as compared to just increasing the national debt.
▶ 2:15:57And that will spark out of the general treasury fund and furthering the increasing the national debt. Will that spark some of the positive outlooks in regards to the financial markets? >> yeah, I think it will. Um, I really think that once we tie america's retirement to the production of the federal lands, we're going to see people more invested in the actual policies on the ground.
▶ 2:16:23And so I think that's how we get people involved in better management, better stewardship of our land. >> so like opportunities like c-c-c for young people to be involved with the land, uh, improving those lands. Do you see that as also helping that? >> yes, absolutely. >> now, um, some have said that, uh, this will never accomplish anything. It was just only worth right now, 2 to 4 billion according to cbo scores.
▶ 2:16:50But I see something different, because once you get in the vault here, you partake of what's in it for me. And I think that mantra goes far. Would you agree? >> I would agree, definitely.
▶ 2:17:04You know, and I think we're going to see productivity increase because, um, I think it was during the obama administration on the bureau of land management's website, they were bragging about how they had reduced livestock grazing since they had been passed by 50% on our forests. Right now, we know that grazing those forests are not being raised to the level that they are required to be grazed. And that, thankfully, is something that this administration is changing.
▶ 2:17:36I know in our own own property in nevada, we believed we could have doubled the capacity and actually improved the resources by doing that. So our history over the last 30 years has been to shrink production. Uh, and we definitely have the capacity to increase production. So they may give us a low number or a number that people don't think is is very worthwhile by putting 10% into the social security.
▶ 2:18:03But I think what you're going to end up with is ultimately a much bigger number, as productivity is, uh, is, uh, supported more. >> so real quick question. Can you describe why this is necessary based upon the land and conservation health that was trying to be passed by the biden administration? >> oh, absolutely. That was a scary proposal.
▶ 2:18:23First off, it is congress that decides what the uses of the lands will be, will be as, uh, now, chairman chairwoman malloy had pointed out earlier. And what they tried to do was the the agencies, the federal agencies tried to replace and circumvent congress's, uh, authority by literally eliminating multiple uses.
▶ 2:18:51So instead of issuing a grazing permit, they would issue a conservation permit. And then when they issued that conservation permit, that permit said all other uses had to, uh, had to stop because now conservation was the highest and best use. So it was the. >> gentleman's time has expired. >> my apologies. >> david scott I yield back. >> thank you. Mr. gosar, I'll now recognize Mr. min for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, madam chair. It's good to see you up there.
▶ 2:19:19Um, I want to thank and introduce, uh, chris ham, my witness. I want to thank you for your 19 years of service as a firefighter. Uh, currently a captain, uh, at the orange county fire authority. Uh, president of the orange county firefighters also look at you. You're a politician. Our former politician, uh, council member and mayor of the city of san clemente. Uh, so thank you for your testimony. I really appreciate it. And I think you highlighted some of the challenges that are unique to southern california and to areas that have lots of brushland.
▶ 2:19:49Uh, I want to highlight first, one quick thing that you kind of touched on, but you mentioned that there's a lot of multi-million dollar homes in the area that you serve in orange county. Uh, what is the potential threat of a if we had an la style fire of the 2024, what would be the economic impact of that just back envelope in your mind? Like, what are we talking about here? Hundreds of millions, billions, tens of billions. What are we talking about? >> yeah, congressman, thank you for the opportunity.
▶ 2:20:15I think it, uh, is right in alignment with the palisades fire, billions of dollars in structural loss and untold number of lives. And I think really what this comes down to is, uh, risk versus benefit for the federal government perspective. And so I'm sure there's many other shrub lands in the western united states, colorado and utah that have similar shrub land risk, but they don't have the same life or property value risk that we see in southern california. >> and as you mentioned, it's right on top of these. Some of these brush fire areas are right on top of homes.
▶ 2:20:44So we're talking huge risks here. Uh, and an ounce of prevention, as I say, is worth a pound of cure. So, uh, a little bit of money invested upfront is probably worth it. Now, uh, you touched on this a little bit, but I just wanted you to elaborate from a firefighter's perspective, what makes the wildfires in southern california so challenging to prevent and control? >> yeah. So prevention is a is a big issue for us.
▶ 2:21:04And so while we do a significant amount of mitigation work in our off season, which is now a smaller and smaller window every year, uh, really it's about initial response and getting the appropriate number of resources to that area. But, uh, a bill such as yours that's going to study the specific impacts in our region, I think would help us better prepare not only next season but the following season, year after year. And that's.
▶ 2:21:25>> why and we, of course, have the santa ana winds that run through every year, uh, now getting faster and faster than ever, that kind of whip up the winds and potentially turn a little bit of tinder into a huge wildfire. Um, now, you mentioned data. In 2021, the us forest service conducted a comprehensive review on the effectiveness of different fire mitigation techniques, including fuel treatments, across north america. And what they found is that only projects in forested ecosystems had any concrete data.
▶ 2:21:50Uh, so I assume that if we were able to get more data to you around what fuel, treatments and other fire mitigation efforts work best, that would be helpful to you in trying to combat fires in an area like ours in orange county, that that has so much chaparral. >> that's correct. Sir. I think a more regional approach like you're describing is going to be beneficial not only to the residents and firefighters in orange county, but across the western region. >> fantastic. And, uh, maybe you could elaborate a little bit on that enhanced federal local coordination.
▶ 2:22:18Uh, what do you think are some of the more obvious ways our bill, uh, of course, would require the us forest service to evaluate ways to enhance collaboration with federal and local partners on wildfire resilience. But do you have any ideas on top of your head on ways that the federal government right now, without this bill, could work better with regional partners? >> yeah, I think communication is probably the key. We have really good partnerships with local and state level that exist today.
▶ 2:22:41And so really honing in on what has done been done correctly for local and state jurisdictions and just mirroring that exact same, um, programing with the federal government is really the key to success. >> fantastic. And I will just state, you know, my my view of this bill, it's an important step. It's not a panacea. This is not going to solve the problem of wildfires. Uh, but by starting to create the bridges and relationships, better relationships between federal, state, uh, be getting better data on what actually works in different ecosystems.
▶ 2:23:11Uh, could help identify ways in which congress and the us forest service can further assist you, whether that's funding, whether that's dedicated resources, uh, down the line. So I just want to thank you again for your service. Uh, I know we've had some tough losses of personnel in the past decade in orange county. I want to thank the brave firefighters for always being out there and fighting these fires. And thank you for your service, chris. >> thank you. Congressman. >> uh, with that, I yield back. >> thank you. I'm now going to recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. Um, Mr.
▶ 2:23:42Franzen, I understand this is your first time testifying in front of congress. So I'm going to tell you a story really fast before I ask any questions. I did this once when I was a deputy county attorney down in washington county. I came and testified before this committee. Rob bishop was in the seat. I was in your seat. Um, and I was really nervous about the questioning part. I didn't want a bunch of members of congress grilling me. And until they started asking me questions and I realized I was the most prepared person in the room. So you can relax. This is going to be really easy.
▶ 2:24:10Um, you're also the smartest guy in the room on this topic. Um. We're talking about working with the forest service to make sure we can finish the bonneville shoreline trail through fruit heights in davis county. Um, has the forest service consistently met with fruit heights to make sure that they're meeting your needs as far as being able to take next steps towards completing the trail.
▶ 2:24:37>> so I would have to say that, uh, the county, davis county, has been the big push on the bonneville shoreline trail and has worked with the forest service for, uh, multiple years trying to get that trail finished through davis county, through their nepa study, through the alignment, uh, and through heights was a very challenging place with crossings going over a couple canyons and having to have bridges and those kind of things. Uh, when we did meet with the forest for the first time, we were actually wanting to add additional trails.
▶ 2:25:06Uh, we have our, our current trails that are used, you know, to the max. And we wanted to be able to spread that out and give more recreation opportunities to everybody who goes up there and uses that those trails and connect the communities together, because we have surrounding communities that are right next to us. And that's their access to the trails from kaysville to farmington.
▶ 2:25:30And so as we started that process, um, it it just was like, well, you're part of this is kind of a not the priority. The priority is the bonneville shoreline trail. Well, where's that at? Um, well, we're working on it, and and it just never seemed to be moving, even with the county. It just didn't seem to be moving. Um, so, um, our previous mayor, um, said, well, we gotta streamline things and we gotta do things, and that's when we contacted, uh, blake moore. Moore's office, and it it did.
▶ 2:25:59It accelerated things, I believe, to where, uh, we I was invited to a meeting last friday before I left, um, beef with the forest service, uh, and the county. And they now have said, hey, the alignments approved. You guys can start working on this this summer. Um, which was just kind of a surprise to me. And I think it was a surprise to the county how fast, um, things changed, and and if that's great, if that's the plan and we can move forward.
▶ 2:26:29I'm in support of that. I don't want to see money wasted. And because of communities and how much time is spent, I don't want to see that wasted. Um, but we do want to see progress. And we just felt like there has not been any progress. >> thank you. Um, you've kind of covered it, but is there anything else that you want to share with the committee about what has worked for your community and what hasn't in this process?
▶ 2:26:54>> well, I will tell you, um, a few years back, um, when senator hatch was here, um, we had some land conveyed to fruit heights, and we actually built the fruit loop trail system on there, which is a mountain bike, which is very well known, um, through davis county and, and, uh, far beyond that. I know there's people that come from the surrounding counties that just come up to ride those trails to bring their small kids up, because there are so many different, you know, trails easy to hard.
▶ 2:27:24And I know the the mountain bike teams from the high schools use that trail. And, and they're always looking for more places to ride because of there is so much use there. Um, we have multiple volunteers, um, that help come up and keep the garbage cleaned up, keep the trails in good condition. And one great thing about that is the the local youth have a buy in to the trail system.
▶ 2:27:52Uh, and they want to be there and they want to make sure it stays clean. Uh, they make their own schedule where they set up service projects. They come up and pick all the garbage up and make sure things are still looking nice. And it's just a community that loves to do those kind of things because of the access, and we just want to see that continue. >> thank you. Um, miss byfield, good to see you. I had to cut you off earlier. I have 20s left.
▶ 2:28:18Do you want to finish your answer about, uh, the conservation rule and why that would be detrimental? >> well, I think I pretty well covered it, but I think that that we have to put some durability into to preventing federal agencies from doing that. Again. And I think this is one way to do it. Congress holds the purse strings. So if congress wants to pay the american people first before the federal agencies, I think that's a smart move. >> thank you. Now I'm out of time, so I will yield and recognize Mr.
▶ 2:28:46Hurd for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. Mr. chair, thank you for coming to washington to testify in favor of the crystal reservoir conveyance act. I also want to thank your county commissioner, lynn padgett, for being here today as well. I remember the city and county actually pulling me out on a freezing winter morning to look at the site, uh, in. And it really clarified what was at stake here. And I appreciate, uh, the, uh, it's a testament to your persistence, uh, with respect to this bill.
▶ 2:29:15So thank you for being here. Can you walk, uh, miss mitchell, can you walk the committee through the city's plan to finance, repair, and maintain the full moon dam and confirm that the city is prepared to assume full, long term responsibility for this liability. >> thank you, congressman hurd, for your question. Yes.
▶ 2:29:34So the city has done a fiscal review of where we're at in the ability to first and foremost make the repairs necessary and then manage the facility moving forward. Um, so with that, after an analysis of our water rights portfolio, we're able to conduct some of these repairs through our general fund. Our general fund is through, of course, property and sales tax that contribute. And with that, we have over a six month reserve right now for operating in our general fund.
▶ 2:30:04So we feel very, um, prepared to take on these expenses. In addition, in order to know what those expenses look like, we've already started talking with some geotechnical and civil engineers who have done an initial review, although without a conveyance, we don't want to go too far down that road of what some of those pieces of repairs could look like. Um, it's looking like they're all quite manageable from a city perspective. Um, and well within our scope and ability.
▶ 2:30:33So once a conveyance is conducted, we would look to start that process pretty much asap, knowing that we would still need to work with the secretary of agriculture to fully execute that conveyance. >> great. >> thank you for that. Can you tell me what specific risks the city of ouray faces without crystal reservoir, particularly during wildfire season and low flow periods? How would local ownership improve response capability? >> um, absolutely.
▶ 2:31:01And having a fire expert here, I will acknowledge I'm a little out of my expertise on that front. However, we as a local story of ours had a wildfire this last summer. It was very close in proximity to crystal reservoir. However, we were not able to use the bucket of water that crystal reservoir could have provided to put that fire out because it had been drained.
▶ 2:31:26Other buckets of water in the area were not accessible to aircraft carriers due to the trajectory of the aircraft that they would have to commit to in order to get the water out of the water source. Again, non-technical. Um, so I will say from a wildfire perspective, we've also had our emergency manager, glenn boyd, who is identified.
▶ 2:31:49This is a key aspect in us being able to really hit those hard to reach places that the san juan mountains create with their geography. Yeah. >> very good. Uh, what level of support has this proposal received locally from residents, water users and public safety officials? >> it's been really heartwarming to see the regional support. So we've gotten support from, uh, our regional municipalities.
▶ 2:32:13We've received support from our board of county commissioners, um, our local sheriff who's in charge of wildfire, uh, preparedness and mitigation when a wildfire occurs. Um, we've also received support from the colorado river district, which is a big piece. I know, you know, we're here in D.C. but in colorado, that's a big piece of that for our area. And so with that, we feel very strongly that there's a lot of regional support in order to get this done. And the city is ready to take that on.
▶ 2:32:44>> that's great to hear. And you have federal support as well, hopefully officially from my colleagues here on the house side, too. So, uh, with that, um, madam chair, I would like to yield my remaining time to Mr. gosar from arizona. >> I thank the gentleman from colorado, miss byfield. I want to kind of go over this one little section again. It's about, uh, what happens with markets. Okay. So when when we see better use and we see money coming into the environment, that's usually an impulse, right? It causes a growth spurt.
▶ 2:33:17Right. >> yeah. Absolutely. >> so the multiple use is pretty good paying jobs, right. For rural america and mining jobs, energy jobs I mean this is pretty, pretty influential. I know cattle I hope we get our our beef back down to. So it's not $54 for a steak, but, uh, all those things act as a, as a, as an input. So we see the markets change. That could be even a stock market change. Right. Or bond market. >> yeah.
▶ 2:33:47I think what we forget about those, those uses is they are really the infrastructure of the west. So like your, your rancher, your, your, uh, miner there, the people who are sitting on the fire boards, on the school district boards on all of that, we find that that that dollar that comes out of those productive resources stays in the community and turns over many, many, many times.
▶ 2:34:11And so you just have this, uh, the more production, the more, uh, the local economy is, is raised up financially. And there's a really good example of what happens when we eliminate production. And we can see that happen when the conservation reserve program was put in by the usda and people were paid to take their lands out of production.
▶ 2:34:32And when you go through the west in some of these areas and we see it in texas, you can identify the communities that were once very vibrant. Once all those those conservation lands came into place. Now you have boarded up storefronts in the downtown, and you see that all through these areas.
▶ 2:34:51That's what you get when you don't produce from the land, but when you produce from the land, that dollar turns over, over and over again locally at the state level, and then ultimately up into the national economy. >> Mr. chairman, I would like to submit to the record.
▶ 2:35:08I ask unanimous consent to enter the record for letters of support from 60 plus association, the association of mature americans citizens, a coalition of arizona, new mexico counties for stable economic growth, and domestic energy producers alliance. >> so ordered. >> and Mr. chairman, my time has expired. >> gentleman's time has expired. I now recognize Mr. moore for five minutes for his questions. >> thank you. Chairman. Mr. president, again, thank you for being here.
▶ 2:35:35Thanks for taking the time to fly out to the capitol for this very important hearing. Could you describe the importance of recreation to the city of fruit heights and how this impacts your role as city manager? >> uh. >> I really believe that any kind of recreation where people can get outside, um, builds a community. Uh, our community is a bedroom community. We have one commercial business in fright city.
▶ 2:36:04Uh, so recreation is what brings our community together. Um, both families, seniors, all that. And the mountains being right there and being able to access that land is a benefit to to everyone. >> and you just also speak to like the ability to actually connect these two, right?
▶ 2:36:27I mean, we all know that recreation is important, but for folks that don't necessarily get the wasatch front, large wasatch mountain range, bonneville shoreline trails, the old lake bonneville that existed in the bed. And there's just all along that wasatch front. There's pretty continuous trail network. But what about near fruit heights? >> so in fruit heights, once again, the bonneville shoreline trail right now is not there. Um, there are places that people do go up and hike.
▶ 2:36:57But the amazing thing about I will tell you, the bonneville shoreline trail is it connects clearing to salt lake and beyond salt lake south and goes into weber county. And we were county has, uh, a lot of that trail that is built, which, um, davis county would tie into, but it just creates miles of recreation where people can see honestly, how beautiful utah is.
▶ 2:37:23Um, when you're up there on that bench and you're walking or you're riding your bike and you can look over the whole valley and see how much it's grown over the years or how much, you know, people have that opportunity. And it's just one of those things that just builds communities. It builds a state. >> you mentioned during miss malloy's, um, questions to you that you've seen some uptick in interest. The forest service has been more engaged recently.
▶ 2:37:51Uh, do you attribute that to the, um, the existence of this legislation and how it's progressing? >> uh, I will tell you, I was I was really surprised when I got called into the meeting last week and just, you know, the forest service was there. I was actually I was excited that they were moving forward, um, because for two years we had not heard anything. Um, as far as contact, uh, I know the county had even talked to him and things were just moving very slowly.
▶ 2:38:18Um, and it was just, like, pretty surprising that things had moved forward. I don't know if this legislation is what did it or if they finally just get everything approved and moved forward, I don't know. >> well, we've heard today it feels like there's strong commitments to be able to, um, move forward regardless of the status of this legislation. I'm thrilled that we're, um, this far along and we want to continue to see this through.
▶ 2:38:46But, uh, if they're going to work with our county and municipal leaders like I'm a miss malloy and I are thrilled to be a part of moving this along. And we want to be supportive, however, however we can and keep pushing and areas. But we got really good commitments out of the forest service, and I take them for their word, uh, that we can that we can move forward with that I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 2:39:11>> gentleman yields I want to thank members for your questions here today, and especially want to thank our witnesses for your testimony. Thank you very much. Members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for our witnesses. Today. We will ask that you respond to those in writing under committee rule three, members of the subcommittee must submit questions to the subcommittee clerk by 5 p.m. On friday, february 13th, 2026. The hearing record will be held open for ten business days. For those responses.
▶ 2:39:40If there is no further business. Without objection, the subcommittee on federal lands stands adjourned.