▶ 0:08:17The subcommittee on water, wildlife and fisheries will come to order. Good morning everyone. I want to welcome members, witnesses and our guests in the audience today. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time. Under committee rule four f any oral opening statements at hearings are limited to the chair and the ranking member.
▶ 0:08:38I therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members opening statements be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted in accordance with committee rule three. Oh, without objection, so ordered. I also ask unanimous consent that the congressman from alaska, Mr. begich, the congressman from montana, Mr. downing, and the congressman from arizona, doctor gosar, be allowed to participate in today's hearing without objection. So ordered.
▶ 0:09:06We are here today to consider four legislative measures h.r. 3276, the local communities and bird habitat stewardship act of 2025, sponsored by representative dingell of michigan. H.r. 1621 the archie cavanaugh migratory bird treaty amendment act, sponsored by representative begich of alaska, h.r.
▶ 0:09:296568, lower yellowstone river native fish conservation act, sponsored by representative downing of montana and h.r. 7159. The protecting local zoos. Zoos act of 2026, sponsored by representative gosar of arizona. I now recognize myself for a five minute opening statement. Today, the subcommittee on water, wildlife and fisheries will examine four bills. Our first bill, h.r.
▶ 0:09:587159, sponsored by doctor gosar, would address several concerns surrounding the implementation of the big cat public safety act. Committee republicans sounded the alarm on many of the issues addressed in doctor gosar's bill before the big cat public safety act became law in 2022.
▶ 0:10:18The bill weaponized the lacey act, unnecessarily, superseded state authority, and was written in a way that implementation caused major problems for law abiding facilities dedicated to the care and conservation of big cats. Doctor gosar is bipartisan. Bill makes targeted reforms to the underlying law that will not endanger the public or the conservation of big cats, but instead will address real concerns from those who deal with the law's repercussions on a daily basis.
▶ 0:10:48The second bill under consideration is h.r. 6021, sponsored by congressman begich, which provides greater certainty to alaska native communities by amending the migratory bird treaty act. Treatment of native alaskan works of art that contain feathers or other non-edible bird parts. In 2012, native alaskan artist archie kavanagh was prosecuted for selling traditional artworks that contained feathers from several species protected under under the mbta.
▶ 0:11:16This unfortunate incident highlighted that something needed to be done to protect native artists from being unjustly prosecuted. In 2017, at the urging of native alaskan communities in congress, the us fish and wildlife service adopted regulations that allowed for the sale of native alaskan works of art that utilized parts from a limited number of species.
▶ 0:11:37This bill expands upon those regulations by allowing for the responsible sale of native alaskan works of art that contain parts from any species covered under the mbta. Our third bill, h.r.
▶ 0:11:516568, sponsored by congressman downing, would affirm that the bureau of reclamation retains exclusive ownership, operational control, and financial responsibility for the lower yellowstone fish bypass channel, which was built to support the recovery of the endangered pallid sturgeon. This legislation protects farmers in eastern montana and western north dakota from bearing the cost of federal conservation efforts. Lastly, h.r.
▶ 0:12:193276, sponsored by congress, congresswoman dingell would provide congressional authorization for a grant program dedicated to the conservation of bird species in urban areas. With that, I want to take time to thank our witnesses for being here today, and I look forward to a robust conversation. I now recognize the ranking member, huffman, for his opening statement. >> thank you, madam chair, and good morning, everyone.
▶ 0:12:46In 2022, congress enacted the big cat public safety act, ending private ownership of big cats and eliminating the lucrative cub petting industry that bred lions, tigers and other big cats for photo ops. Many americans saw exactly why that mattered when they watched the show tiger king. And if anyone is here to film a sequel of tiger king, I know I look a lot older than in the first one. I apologize for that. That happens here in congress. We age in dog years.
▶ 0:13:16Cubs were bred back then for photo ops, and when they were about 12 weeks old, too big and too dangerous for people to cuddle. They were sold off into exotic pet trade and to unaccredited roadside zoos, often ending up in small cages and putting the public in dangerous situations. The fortunate cubs would go to wildlife sanctuaries, but many others would just be euthanized. They were expendable.
▶ 0:13:43The big cat public safety act was a carefully crafted bill that acknowledged the role of accredited zoos and wildlife sanctuaries in caring for, rehabilitating, and conserving these iconic animals. But even though the law passed with strong bipartisan support, some roadside zoos and private owners continue to fight against the restrictions that congress enacted after. After the passage of the big cat public safety act, fish and wildlife service started a robust rulemaking.
▶ 0:14:13They received a lot of constructive feedback from stakeholders, even from the sponsors of the law here in congress. And there were legitimate questions about implementation. The fish and wildlife service was and is understandably working through those questions. H.r. 7159 from Mr. gosar takes us backward on all of that. It creates massive loopholes in the big cat public safety act.
▶ 0:14:37Before the law was enacted, there was almost no information about the number or the location of big cats in private ownership, and that posed a significant safety risk to law enforcement and the public. Because of the big cat public safety act. We now have a registry of private ownership.
▶ 0:14:56But I guess that triggered someone's, you know, political libertarian, uh, reflexes or something, because this bill, uh, undermines that registry and allows big cat owners to simply avoid registering their animals. Takes us right back to where we were. Alarmingly, the bill also exempts brokers and dealers, the middlemen in the exotic cat trade from the act's prohibitions, opening the door once again for wildlife trafficking of big cats through our borders.
▶ 0:15:24And it narrows the list of big cats even covered under the law. This bill would exclude clouded and snow leopards altogether, even though they're threatened by the wildlife trade. As we heard in the oversight and investigations subcommittee hearing last month, wildlife trafficking is a national security threat that funnels billions of dollars into the hands of criminals each year and contributes to the destabilization of countries worldwide.
▶ 0:15:52Why would we want to fuel that terrible bottom feeding criminal industry? Simply put, this bill is going to make that national security problem worse, not better. I also want to briefly flag our concerns with hr 6568, the lower yellowstone river native fish conservation act. That bill, uh, pushes the cost of endangered species conservation onto american taxpayers instead of the end users of the lower yellowstone irrigation project.
▶ 0:16:22If the legislation moves forward, it's going to set a concerning precedent for other hydropower and irrigation projects across the west, leaving the american taxpayer holding the bag for mitigation costs associated with these projects. Without dedicated funding for recovery.
▶ 0:16:36Natural resources republicans talk about improving endangered species act outcomes by ensuring robust collaboration and investment in species recovery, but this bill would actually disincentivize those collaborative efforts and reduce investments in the lower yellowstone river. So I hope we can work on some improvements there. I look forward to hearing from the witnesses and I yield back. >> I now recognize ranking member hoyle for her opening statements.
▶ 0:17:07>> thank you very much, madam chair. Um. Good morning. Uh, today we're considering four bills on wildlife conservation and cultural heritage. I'm glad to see that representative dingell's local communities and bird habitat stewardship act h.r. 3276 are included in today's hearing. This bipartisan bill would authorize and fund the successful urban bird treaty program. This collaborative program supports bird conservation and bird related recreation and urban areas across the country.
▶ 0:17:37Thanks in part to the urban bird treaty program, the oregon bird alliance has carried out local projects due to restore floodplains, increase data collection, and reduce pollution. We've lost 3 billion birds since 1970, and it's only going to get worse if we don't invest in common sense on the ground conservation projects. I'm hopeful we can advance h.r. 3276 with broad bipartisan support, because we all care about good stewardship.
▶ 0:18:06I appreciate the goals of h.r. 621, representative begich bill to support alaska native artists who use feathers from migratory birds. I also sincerely believe in respecting tribal sovereignty and the rights of tribes to carry forward their cultural traditions. I look forward to working together to make sure we have a bill that balances those needs, while also including sensible guardrails for conservation and monitoring. I'm looking forward to working with you on this.
▶ 0:18:34I'm optimistic that the conversations between stakeholders and bill sponsors will provide a clear path forward that can work for everyone. Next on the agenda is representative downing's h.r. 6568, relating to the lower yellowstone project in montana. In 1990, the pallid sturgeon was listed under the aza, in large part due to the impacts of this dam and the connected canals.
▶ 0:18:57To address these threats to the species, blm constructed the lower yellowstone fish bypass channel h.r. 6568 would exempt irrigators from contributing to the costs associated with the bypass channel, and I appreciate that water management is complex and can be challenging for local water users to pay into expensive federal projects. At the same time, we have a responsibility to work together to protect the endangered species.
▶ 0:19:25I have concerns that this bill doesn't live up to that standard. I look forward to hearing more about it today. As they say, whiskey's for drinking, waters for fighting. And these things are complicated. Uh, just last month, the oversight committee held a hearing on wildlife trafficking that was overwhelmingly bipartisan. Members on both sides expressed real concerns about the national security implications of illegal wildlife trade and its connections to transnational criminal networks.
▶ 0:19:57I honestly don't understand why we're now considering a bill that would weaken the big cat public safety act, and once again, open the door for wildlife traffickers to import tigers, cheetahs, lions and other big cats. This bill title suggests it's about protecting local zoos, but accredited zoos are already exempt under the existing law, h.r. 7159 would instead carve out class b licenses, brokers and dealers from key requirements under the big cat public safety act.
▶ 0:20:26It would also authorize exports and imports of big cats to vaguely define foreign entities. This creates a major loophole for wildlife traffickers to exploit. Congress passed the big cat public safety act for animal welfare and human safety, but also because we know that wildlife trafficking is often tied to other illicit activity.
▶ 0:20:50Just last year, the west coast game park in my district was shut down after numerous complaints about poor animal welfare conditions. When investigators arrived, they also found meth, cocaine, 44 guns and $1.6 million of cash on site. I just want to point out the arrests were not of undocumented immigrants, but rather of people who were engaged in bad acting across the board.
▶ 0:21:16Um, our community is safer now thanks to the animal welfare laws that led to this investigation. Moving forward, I hope we can work together as a committee to root out wildlife trafficking. And I want to thank our witnesses for joining us here today. I look forward to a productive discussion. >> thank you. And I thank you. And I now recognize, uh, congressman begich for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. I'm honored to present h.r.
▶ 0:21:44621, the archie cavanaugh migratory bird treaty amendment act. This legislation continues the work of longtime alaska congressman, the late congressman don young, who fought for decades to right a wrong that has burdened alaskan native communities since the migratory bird treaty act was enacted in 1918, more than a century ago.
▶ 0:22:05The original treaty was negotiated without any input from alaska natives, the very people who had been harvesting migratory birds and incorporating their feathers into cultural artwork for over 10,000 years. Federal law effectively criminalized traditions that predate the united states by millennia. This bill is named for archie cavanaugh, a highly respected tlingit artist and musician who in 2012 was prosecuted by the U.S.
▶ 0:22:30Fish and wildlife service agents for creating traditional artwork that included feathers from ravens and flickers. He faced up to ten years in prison and $100,000 fine for practicing the art of his ancestors. His rifle, a family heirloom, uh, used for generations to feed his family, was confiscated. He was ultimately forced to pay a $2,000 fine.
▶ 0:22:51Archie sadly passed away in 2018 without seeing this injustice corrected, while a 2017 fish and wildlife service rule provided some relief, it only covered 27 species and excluded feathers, the very materials most essential to traditional alaska native regalia and art. H.r.
▶ 0:23:11621 fixes this by clarifying that the migratory bird treaty act does not prohibit the sale or shipment of authentic alaskan native handicrafts containing non-edible bird parts, so long as those parts were not taken wastefully or illegally. Alaska native art is not a hobby. It is an economic lifeline in remote villages, where heating bills can reach $1,000 a month in every gallon of milk must be flown. In. The cultural economy provides essential cash income.
▶ 0:23:37The alaska native subsistence economy is valued at approximately $340 million a year. This bill supports that economy while respecting the co-management framework alaska natives have built with federal and state partners through the alaska migratory bird co-management council. I urge my colleagues to support h.r.
▶ 0:23:566021 and finally deliver justice for alaska native artists, for the memory of archie cavanagh and for the generations of indigenous peoples who have served as stewards of these lands and these species since time immemorial. Thank you. And I yield back. >> thank you. The chair now recognizes congressman downing for five minutes. >> uh, thank you, chairman hagerman and ranking member for holding this hearing today. Uh, really appreciate it. Um, you know, uh, first of all, I'd like to enter.
▶ 0:24:26I have numerous letters of support that I'd like to enter into the record. The lower yellowstone river native fish conservation act is a win win for native fish populations, family farmers and rural communities in eastern montana and western north dakota. By keeping the lower yellowstone fish bypass channel federally funded. My bill maintains conservation practices and supports the rural agricultural community.
▶ 0:24:54The lower yellowstone irrigation project was created under the 1902 reclamation act as a single purpose irrigation project. It serves approximately 59,000 acres of farmland across four irrigation districts in eastern montana and western north dakota, supporting around 300 farm families.
▶ 0:25:11These farms produce sugar beets, alfalfa, wheat, barley, rye, crops, livestock keeping our businesses, main streets, co-ops, grocery stores alive in a region that receives only about 12in of rain annually, the lower yellowstone river is the natural habitat of the endangered pallid sturgeon.
▶ 0:25:32To support fish passages across the irrigation project, the bureau of reclamation reclamation authorized and constructed the lower yellowstone fish bypass channel to mitigate harm to pallid sturgeon. Completed in 2022, this federal esa mitigation facility has proven successful 82 radio tagged pallid sturgeon and thousands of other native fish have used this bypass to migrate upstream.
▶ 0:25:54Operational ownership, management and financial responsibility for the fish bypass is meant to remain in the bureau of reclamation's hands. However, since its completion, the local community has received worrying signs surrounding financial and operational obligations for the yellow uh lower yellowstone fish bypass channel. The possibility is a nonstarter for my constituents.
▶ 0:26:18The bypass sits on federal land outside the irrigation projects boundaries and was built for esa mitigation, not irrigation delivery. My legislation provides financial certainty for the surrounding communities of montana and north dakota by locking in reclamation's sole ownership, operational control and financial responsibility of the yellow of the lower yellowstone fish bypass into perpetuity.
▶ 0:26:42This bill further ensures that no costs can be shifted from the federal government to the lower yellowstone irrigation district, or any surrounding nonfederal entity. It protects the tens of millions of dollars congress and the american people have invested in this facility, and decades of pallid sturgeon recovery work. Clarifying the federal government's operational and financial control supports family farms, cattle operations, hay producers and small towns across eastern montana and western north dakota.
▶ 0:27:12The bill also confirms federal responsibility for esa compliance for the pallid sturgeon. As the party responsible for this project, reclamation is best equipped to advance mitigation and recovery initiatives across the fish bypass. From a broader perspective, this legislation reaffirms that when the federal government builds a complex esa mitigation structure like the fish bypass, local partners and affected communities are not left holding the bag.
▶ 0:27:40My bill supports montana's agricultural community, native fish populations and rural development. It helps maintain stable crop production, protects unique native fish and iconic western river without pitting. Conservation against agriculture.
▶ 0:27:56Uh, chairwoman and ranking member, I thank you and the natural resources committee for taking this first step towards providing financial certainty to my constituents, and I look forward to the continuing movement of my bill to support communities across montana and north dakota. And on that I yield back. >> thank you. The chair now recognizes congressman gosar for five minutes. >> I thank the chairman and members of the subcommittee for allowing me to wave on this morning. Today, my bill protecting the local zoos.
▶ 0:28:24Zoos act closes loopholes in the big cat public safety act of 2022 to ease the regulatory burden on small zoological institutions, and to protect the public's access to the beauty of these big cats. These animal sanctuaries and zoos are pillars to local communities like those in my district. They provide a diverse range of employment opportunities, tourism revenues and educational opportunities for students and conservation partnerships. My bill, h.r.
▶ 0:28:547159, provides clarity for the affected zoological institutions without compromising the standards of care for these big cats or watering down the. Specifically, it clarifies who can care for big cats and enter enclosures, ensuring these felines receive the support they need. It provides usda licensed facilities with a clear pathway to cancel registrations made in error.
▶ 0:29:18It clarifies import and export regulations under the big cat public safety act and brings clarity between class b and class c license holders, who are subject to the same federal inspection and same federal guidelines and regulations. And finally, my bill clarifies that the clouded leopard, clouded leopards and snow leopards were not included in the initial intent of the congress nor the bill. Text of the captive wildlife safety act of 2003.
▶ 0:29:46The protecting local zoos act provides common sense and consistent application of the law to ensure big cats conservation can continue without regulatory uncertainty. I thank my colleague from florida, representative soto, for his partnership in this bill, and I look forward to hearing from the witnesses today and my questions later. Thank you. >> yield back. Thank you. Thank you for being here. I want to thank all the members for your testimony, and I will now introduce the witnesses on our second panel. Mr. james brower, manager of the lower yellowstone irrigation project from sidney, montana.
▶ 0:30:16Miss megan anders, chief of the king island native community from nome, alaska. Mr. matthew bryant, retired resident in charge at the us fish and wildlife service, office of law enforcement from midlothian, texas. And miss mindy stinner, chair of the feline conservation foundation from burlington, north carolina. Under committee rules, you must limit your oral statements to five minutes, but your entire statement will appear in the hearing record.
▶ 0:30:43To begin your testimony, please press the button on the microphone and we use timing lights. When you begin, the light will turn green. When you have one minute remaining, the light will turn yellow, and at the end of five minutes the light will turn red. And I will ask you to please complete your statement. I will also allow all of the witnesses to testify before member questioning. I now recognize representative downing to introduce Mr. brower. >> thank you, madam chair.
▶ 0:31:09I'm honored to introduce one of our witnesses this morning, james brower. James serves as manager of the four irrigation districts comprising the lower yellowstone irrigation project, supporting family farms, food production and local economies across the region. With over 30 years of water management experience, he's worked extensively with congress and the bureau of reclamation on critical infrastructure and fish passage issues.
▶ 0:31:34He previously led the montana water resources association and currently serves on the upper missouri water association board. A us army veteran, james brings disciplined leadership to balancing agricultural water needs with environmental stewardship across the lower yellowstone irrigation project. James, thank you for traveling to be with us today, and I look forward to hearing from you. And I yield back. >> I now recognize Mr. brower for five minutes. >> thank you.
▶ 0:32:03Honorable chairwoman and ranking member and honorable members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. And thank you for holding this hearing on h.r. 6568, the lower yellowstone river native fish conservation act. My message today is simple. The fish bypass is a federal endangered species act mitigation facility for federal flood control dams on the missouri river. The fish bypass is a single purpose project.
▶ 0:32:30Its purpose is fish passage that benefits the endangered species and native fish. It is on the usbr land and it's built for national conservation purpose, and it must remain federally operated and funded to protect the taxpayer investment and the endangered species. Pallid sturgeon's recovery. My name is james brower. I manage the lower yellowstone irrigation project, which is officially a single purpose project. That purpose is irrigation.
▶ 0:32:57This project has delivered dependable water to the high plains desert for 117 years. This project is one of the original irrigation projects proposed in the 1902 reclamation act. We are one of the oldest federal government built and successful and continuing to operate drought preparedness projects. We support two states and three counties and six communities.
▶ 0:33:29We've brought water to them through all the historic droughts, including the dust bowl. The project provides irrigation water to the four districts, serving roughly 59,000 acres, and due to current economies, we are only 300 farm families, drinking wells and broader rural economy and tax base. There are no large corporate farms or anything like that.
▶ 0:33:51Those acres produce the crops and livestock that keep our businesses main streets, implement dealers, co-ops and grocery stores and our neighbors alive. And they do so in a region that often receives only 12in of rain a year. In our part of the world, the project isn't just an irrigation system, it is an anchor for the region's agricultural base and recharges six communities.
▶ 0:34:12We are here because the fish bypass channel was designed and built, and decided to be built by federal agencies to meet federal flood control. Dam endangered species act responsibilities and advance pallid sturgeon recovery and the recovery of all the native fish in the lower yellowstone river, and it should remain a federal responsibility to operate and maintain, because they never, the federal agencies, never got an agreement.
▶ 0:34:41A memorandum of understanding, uh, or a contract that said that the irrigation districts would o&m this federal fish bypass, uh, which an average cost of the fish bypass maintenance has been $1 million a year, and it's only been open four years. H.r. 6568 does something straightforward and necessary. It reaffirms that the bor retains ownership, operational control and financial responsibility for the federal fish bypass channel.
▶ 0:35:11The bureau of reclamation chose to keep and be the owners of this fish bypass, but 100 year old regulation says that for a single purpose project, the beneficiary of the project must pay 100% of the o&m. But our purpose is irrigation is not endangered species. We won at the ninth circuit federal appeals court in portland, oregon.
▶ 0:35:37They ruled that the endangered species act is not retroactive. We support this endangered species bypass, and we brought 300 supporters, all of our farm families, to the federal court in great falls, montana, six times to ensure this bypass could be built to save the fish because we care. But due to the current economy, my farmers cannot buy fertilizer this year.
▶ 0:36:02Literally trainloads of fertilizer sitting on these track sidings because of farmers can't afford to buy it. They certainly can't afford an extra $30 an acre of water taxes per year just to maintain a fish bypass that they didn't ask for, and they didn't agree to maintain. Their intake.
▶ 0:36:26Montana the lip diverts water through federal diversion weirs and fish screens and headworks that feed the main canal system, serving the farms and towns in two states. The diversion structured intake is not a storage reservoir. It is low underwater diversion feature a weir designed to raise water levels just a few feet in order to divert flow into the canal, while the river continues downstream. The fish by channel.
▶ 0:36:55This bill keeps responsibility where it belongs, with the agencies that decided to design and build the bypass, own the land and have the statutory duties, equipment and technical expertise to manage it. Thank you very much. I respect this opportunity to testify. >> we appreciate you being here. Thank you very much. I now would like to recognize representative begich to introduce chief anders.
▶ 0:37:23>> madam chairwoman, I'm pleased to introduce the honorable megan anders, chief of the king island native community and chair of the bering strait development council, who has traveled from the bering strait region to be with us today. Chief anders is pursuing a phd in indigenous studies from the university of alaska fairbanks, focused on inuit knowledge of the ocean and arctic marine mammal governance. She. She teaches inupiat language at the university of alaska, fairbanks, northwest, and chukchi campuses.
▶ 0:37:53Her background includes a master's in applied economics from johns hopkins and a b.s. In economics from george mason. Uniquely positioning her to address both the cultural and economic dimensions of this legislation, she also serves on the alaska federation of natives board of directors. And I would note that chief anders brought her 11 year old niece, svea, from nome, because it's time to prepare the next generation to advocate for alaskan native ways of life.
▶ 0:38:22Chief anders, welcome to washington. I yield back. >> thank you. I now recognize chief anders for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman. And thank you, congressman begich, for the introduction. Distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to join you today. My name is megan anders, and I'm a very new elected chief of the king island native community. And thank you for that introduction. I won't repeat my titles here. Uh, I would like to thank congressman begich for introducing h.r.
▶ 0:38:506021, and I'd like to thank the chairman for putting our native way of life on the agenda today. I'm here to ask for your support, uh, to help us continue a way of life that our ancestors have gifted to us. We certainly are very lucky in the united states with the government to government relationship between the united states government and our federally recognized indian tribes. And it's a political relationship with the foundation in our constitution that every generation will continue to define.
▶ 0:39:18In learning who archie cavanaugh was, it dawned upon me that I'm the next generation to advocate for this bill, as is congressman begich. After some of you may remember, congressman young speaking to this issue, uh, just in case it takes another generation, I did bring my niece, uh, she's 11 years old from nome, alaska, and really happy to get her ready to be a leader.
▶ 0:39:45Uh, the archie cavanaugh migratory bird treaty amendment act protects the ability of alaska natives to sell our native art. That was that is made with non-edible bird parts. Alaska native art is a critical sector of our alaskan economy, providing important cash income in places where there is no cash employment. Art helps pay the heating bills, where heating bills can be $1,000 a month.
▶ 0:40:12During our 22 below winters, art pays the electric bill in places with the highest cost of living compared to anywhere in america due to transportation logistics, where every economic good from eggs to milk must be shipped by barge in the summer or flown in by airfreight.
▶ 0:40:29This bill is not only about protecting our culture, but also about justice for archie, as he highlighted how laws enacted without our consultation or inclusion outlawed indigenous ways of life. Federal agents not only confiscated his cultural headdress that used raven and flicker feathers, but they also confiscated his gun.
▶ 0:40:51And this gun was a family heirloom that he hunted for his family for generations. And that should frankly enrage any second amendment protector here in congress. Uh, for your situational awareness. Uh, it does. Are the indigenous take of birds is regulated. We have a seat at the table in the co-management of species through the alaska migratory bird co-management council.
▶ 0:41:18The ambc is composed of federal, state, and 12 regional alaska native co-management councils. My tribe has a seat at the table in the bering strait. Norton sound migratory bird co-management council, along with 19 other tribes in my region, the council monitors bird populations, reviews, research and habitat protection measures, as well as establishes harvest regulations.
▶ 0:41:46In closing, I want to thank you for the opportunity to share with you a way of life that is uniquely american, a way of life that belongs to this place, this land. The bill is about our native economy, uh, our ways of living in relationship with the land, the ocean, the birds, fish, caribou and marine mammals are essential pillar to the alaskan economy of hunting, fishing and selling our cultural art. This bill preserves our unique cultural identity and expression of respect and spirituality.
▶ 0:42:16Another related bill that I would urge this committee consider is the artist act, and this is an act that has been passed by the senate and it protects our walrus, ivory carvers, another critical element of our cultural economy. And if there's any member that would like to hear one of our subsistence hunters make very unique all of our migratory bird sounds, I did bring an audio recording during the question and answer. Thank you. >> thank you.
▶ 0:42:42I had the opportunity to visit your beautiful state in august with representative begich, and it truly is a magnificent place to visit and picked up some of your beautiful artwork as well. I now recognize Mr. bryant for five minutes. >> chairwoman hageman, ranking member hoyle, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony concerning the protecting local zoos act. H.r. 7159. My name is matt bryant.
▶ 0:43:14I'm a veteran of the united states air force. I served in the gulf war, and I've worked in federal law enforcement for 38 years. 30 of those years. I served with the us fish and wildlife service. During my time with the service, I was involved with hundreds of wildlife criminal investigations. I saw firsthand the harm that wildlife trade and the absence of meaningful oversight causes to animal and people alike.
▶ 0:43:37In the case of captive felids, the big cat public safety act marked the monumental step forward in meaningful protection for wildlife and communities. Now, h.r. 71, threatens both. Among the. The high profile cases that I managed was a five year investigation.
▶ 0:43:55Many know as tiger king, the owner, the owner, joseph maldonado-passage, also known as joe exotic, along with several other people, um, were heavily involved in the um. Were heavily involved in the us captive big cat trade. These unscrupulous breeders and dealers profited by exploiting imperiled species with no regard for the animal suffering or even death, that they were not generating revenue.
▶ 0:44:23They took advantage of gaps in the us law. The big cat public safety act helped to close, in which the misleadingly named protecting local zoos act aims to reopen. Joe exotic and his counterparts operated cub petting displays, charging customers to play and take photos with young felids, an enterprise that could generate hundreds of dollars per hour per cub.
▶ 0:44:47Indeed, one source revealed to me that a display featuring three cubs could easily bring in $5,000 per day during a tourist season to remain profitable. Such ventures required a constant stream of new cubs and accordingly, incessant breeding. It is hard to overstate the underlying cruelty behind this.
▶ 0:45:07Cubs were typically torn from their mothers just after birth, a painful and distressing experience for both, and makeshift weapons like water hoses, fire extinguishers and sticks were used to force the mother away from the newborn. Sticks and rakes were often used to then grab the cub to pull it to the edge of the enclosure and out of her reach, so it could be handed over to customers soon thereafter as a use for a photo op.
▶ 0:45:29Of course, cubs grew and rapidly aged out of profitability in a matter of months, so this business model necessitated a cycle of speed breeding, painful mother cub separation, and disposable disposable disposal of young felines under feeding and records falsification were used to extend the cubs shelf life, but they merely displayed the inevitable.
▶ 0:45:51Options were then to sell the cats, often to traveling shows, other exotic animal breeders, or to the public, or to pet collectors, or to simply kill them. As my investigation revealed, such killings were brutal and sadly common. The animals could also be sold to individuals engaged in criminal activity beyond wildlife trafficking. I have video and audio recording of murder for hire plots being funded through the illegal sale of felids.
▶ 0:46:18I recorded conversations of captive feline dealers planning arson, and I have learned of ties to animal fighting, smuggling, organized crime, money laundering, and tax evasion. Despite documented connections to animal cruelty, exotic pet trade and crime, h.r. 7159 could reopen reopen the cub petting industry. It would expand the list of individuals who may be allowed to handle captive big cats to include an owner, executive or volunteer.
▶ 0:46:47This seemingly minor change could create a huge loophole in the bcc prohibition against public contact as a competitive inhibitor could simply designate all customers as volunteers. Exacerbating this problem, 7159 would expand the exemption for class c license exhibitors to include class b licensees, allowing a broad category of unqualified middlemen to possess dangerous, imperiled big cats, reducing oversight while expanding
▶ 0:47:17Participation in the dangerous big cat trade would harm animals and the public. Only those who stand to profit from exploiting these iconic animals stand to benefit from dismantling the bcc. Accordingly, I respectfully ask that the members of the subcommittee join me in opposing h.r. 7159. >> thank you. The chair now recognizes miss stinner for five minutes. >> chairman hageman.
▶ 0:47:48>> buttons. >> chairman hageman, and, um, ranking member hoyle, thank you very much for inviting me today. Um, my name is mindy stinner. I'm the chair of the feline conservation foundation. I have 35 years of experience working directly with big cats of every species except cheetah.
▶ 0:48:05Um, I'm also the executive director and co-founder of the animal park at the conservators center and the government affairs liaison for members, um, for the zoological association of america. Today, I represent the feline conservation foundation, the fkf. The fkf is a national 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancing wild feline conservation through strategic partnerships, collaboration, and innovation.
▶ 0:48:36We envision a world where conservation projects are robustly supported, leading to thriving populations and preserve natural habitats by providing exceptional welfare for animals and human care, and by educating the people responsible for them, we create meaningful experiences that inspire everyone who encounters these animals to support their species and their natural environment. On behalf of the fkf, I thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony today regarding hr 7159, the protecting local zoos act.
▶ 0:49:06The fkf strongly supports this bipartisan legislation, which provides necessary and practical clarifications to the big cat public safety act, ensuring that animal welfare and conservation efforts can continue effectively without unintended regulatory burdens. I would especially like to thank Mr. gosar for introducing hr 7159, um, and congressman soto for making this bill initially bipartisan.
▶ 0:49:33Um, this bill will include an exemption for duly trained volunteers. Um, volunteers are duly trained and documented if they've had significant experience. And if that isn't adequately addressed in this bill, then I suspect that could be an interesting conversation. No one has an interest in restoring big cat cub petting.
▶ 0:49:57We know that, um, the initial regulations, uh, put out by U.S. fish and wildlife, the regulations to implement the big cat public safety act, um, is overly restrictive. It technically prohibited the export of big cats because the fish and wildlife could not confirm that an overseas facility would meet their standards.
▶ 0:50:23However, on april 4th, 2024, senator blumenthal, Mr. quigley and other distinguished members sent a letter to fish and wildlife service specifically indicating that it was not the intent of the bill to prohibit exports.
▶ 0:50:39Import has been and remains legal where it's permitted, um, by fish and wildlife service and by international law sanctuaries, which are not required to be usda licensed at all, are some of the largest importers of big cats in the united states. We are asking for a registration correction mechanism.
▶ 0:51:04The initial guidance surrounding who needed to register for an exemption under the big cat public safety act was confusing, and some facilities registered who were already exempted. This includes some major zoos and some sanctuaries. Clearly, there was confusion about who was required to register and what the limitations are on those registrants.
▶ 0:51:27Afterwards, there are facilities that were prohibited from obtaining new big cats or breeding big cats, or transporting big cats who have continued to do so. Clearly not understanding these restrictions. So we have to assume that they registered potentially in error. Um, there are a grand total of 97 registered cats out of the tens of thousands we were told to expect.
▶ 0:51:52Um, so, uh, we can assume that if half of those already belong to facilities that are exempt, um, that's a very small number left over. Um, class b and c licenses are assigned based on where your, uh, your funding comes from and not based on whether you're open to the public. So there are class b facilities that are already open to the public.
▶ 0:52:16Um, and that does mean that that there is, um, regulation over both of them that is very similar. Mr. bryant is correct that in the absence of oversight, abuses may occur. It's very important to understand that out of the tiger king, not one single facility remains owned and operated in the united states by any of those individuals, not one, because their behaviors were already illegal and they were prosecuted for it.
▶ 0:52:48Thank you for your time. >> I want to thank all of you for being here. Uh, some of you traveling quite a distance to arrive. And I appreciate the testimony that you've provided. I'm now going to recognize members for five minutes each for questioning. And I'm going to begin with myself. Mr. brower, I'm going to begin with you. In your testimony, you mentioned that the lower yellowstone fish bypass channel requires consistent and thorough maintenance to prevent damage from ice erosion and other natural forces.
▶ 0:53:18What is the current state of repair of the bypass channel, and what is reclamation's plan to ensure the structure remains functional? >> thank you, madam chairwoman. Um, the bureau of reclamation has spent more than $2 million per year, um, fixing it every year within the first 100 days of it being open.
▶ 0:53:44Uh, it lost 145,000yd of erosion. Uh, to add insult to injury, the irrigation districts explained to the corps of engineers and the bureau of reclamation. The corps helped them design it and build it, that, uh, they needed to riprap in there because of the severe sandy soils of that island.
▶ 0:54:09Uh, we even showed them pictures of our own irrigation canal, which is about a one sixth version of the same thing, and how it had widened out and shallowed out. Uh, and the biologist always said that the fish required depth and, uh, fast velocities and erosion gets rid of that. That is the concern that it needs to be maintenanced. So the bureau has an eight year adaptive management.
▶ 0:54:35They're over halfway through that in which they are maintaining it because they got resistance from the districts. But at the end of that eight years, the regulation requires them to hand it to us, the irrigation districts, which should be paid by 300 farm families who can't. >> pay it. Was it poorly designed and constructed? Is that what your testimony is? >> well, the corps of engineers did not do did not take new, um, geological, uh, test holes in the island.
▶ 0:55:03They reused, uh, three test holes that they took when the plan to recover the pallid sturgeon was building a giant rock ramp in the yellowstone river. And then they went to the bypass where you dig through this. If you were to build a the retirement building in the city of glendive, they make you do geological test holes. But the corps chose to do their own.
▶ 0:55:26And the biologists, you know, uh, were pushing that they wanted less riprap because fish don't like riprap in their words. But, um, the they didn't they saved a couple million dollars by not buying riprap. But now they spent $8 million and they've only repaired about 60% of the erosion so far. >> so it sounds like they broke it. And they're going to eventually ask you to fix it. >> exactly, exactly, Mrs. chairman.
▶ 0:55:55>> alright, I'd like to turn to chief anders. Uh, briefly, would you would passage of h.r. 1621 undermine the conservation of migratory birds? >> absolutely not. As I mentioned in my testimony, um, we migratory birds are regulated in our state through co-management with the federal government and the state of alaska and 12 co-management agencies. And we monitor the science, we monitor the species. In addition, we are advocates for bird breeding watersheds.
▶ 0:56:26The norton sound region is a tremendous migratory breeding area. We have thousands and thousands of birds that come, you know, to keep the population sustainable. And in fact, it's our tribes and our communities that protect the breeding areas. We recently won a victory against a reality tv show that wanted to mine a breeding area for the sake of filming the conflict between the miners and indigenous hunters.
▶ 0:56:54So we are the stewards of our lands. We protect the environment for migratory birds, and you can bet you know we'll fight for the survival of their species. >> yeah, we can use the artifacts and the items that you've described for art and still conserve these species, can't we? We can do both. >> absolutely. >> well, thank you for that. Yes.
▶ 0:57:15And, miss stinner, almost two years ago, the original sponsors of the big cat public safety act sent a letter to the us fish and wildlife service regarding what they consider to be incorrect implementation of the law and their belief that the service could actually change course from what they were doing. Their letter mainly focused on mistaken registrations by class c license holders, and export and import regulations. To your knowledge, have any of those concerns been addressed by the fish and wildlife service? >> not to my knowledge.
▶ 0:57:47>> okay. And if not, do you believe that these issues relate to poor implementation or poor drafting of the original legislation, or possibly both? >> I think that when legislation is not clear, it's implemented to the best of an agency's ability, and sometimes they might make a mistake. >> sometimes I think that we make mistakes as well as members of congress. I'm not being critical of anyone, but when we find that a piece of legislation has actually been poorly drafted or poorly implemented, don't you think it's our obligation to try to find a way to fix it?
▶ 0:58:19>> I would certainly hope so. >> don't you think that's what Mr. gosar's bill does? >> I do. >> thank you. I now will call upon, uh, ranking member hoyle for her five minutes of questioning. Thank you. >> thank you very much.
▶ 0:58:32Um, madam chair, so, first of all, I would like to echo, um, chair hageman in, in saying that I, I also in august had the great honor and privilege to visit your great state thanks to the invitation of representative begich, and it was truly, truly tremendous. And again, as as native people, you've managed our natural resources for millennia better than we've seen maybe since then.
▶ 0:59:02And, um, really, really looking forward to working with you. And I want to thank you. And your niece. Yes. So much for being here. Um, really wonderful to listen to your testimony. Um, with that, Mr. bryant, I, I do have some questions. I want to I want to thank you for your service and for sharing your expertise with the committee today.
▶ 0:59:27As you mentioned in your testimony, you had a 38 career, your career in law enforcement and topped it off by being lead in an investigation over five years into joe exotic, better known as tiger king. I am sure you have many, many stories about that. We won't go into it tonight, but man, that would be interesting.
▶ 0:59:49Um, I'm concerned that the protecting local zoos act would not protect local zoos, but instead would enable, in your words, transnational criminal enterprises. Um, the bill would create exceptions to the big cat public safety act for wildlife brokers and dealers, and allow anyone designated as a volunteer to handle big cats, creating major loopholes that go against the intent of the law.
▶ 1:00:14I will also note that one of the strongest indicators of, um, people who are engaged in person crime, who are criminal sadists, are that they previously had been cruel and sadistic to animals. And that is not something that I think should go unremarked.
▶ 1:00:38But could you describe the culture and scale of illicit big cat dealers that you witnessed over your law enforcement career? Maybe touch on how loosening restrictions around big cats can put the public in danger? >> yes, ma'am. Thank you.
▶ 1:00:56Um, as noted, I spent a lot of time, um, on the tiger king case, and, uh, not with, uh, just joe maldonado's facility, but got to be involved with, uh, what was going on with several other facilities as, uh, I found these were often interconnected. It is a world where, um, greed runs the show and money is the is the ultimate game.
▶ 1:01:26I saw the cats being, um, mistreated. Um, they were a means to an end. The paying public was also a means to an end, to feel the ego and the money. And a lot of this was fueled by the cub petting. The more cubs you had, the more money that you could make. And then that turned into the speed breeding problem. And all the sudden we had more cats than we knew what to do with.
▶ 1:01:56They were everywhere, they were prolific and people could get their hands on them. Then they started to end up in backyards, in our in our neighborhoods. We had no idea where they were. Um, then organized criminal elements get involved because you have a commodity that is worth money. So then these are marketed and brokered around to try to to move them for the highest dollar.
▶ 1:02:18And from there it just expands and we go beyond our borders because wildlife trafficking has no borders. >> thank you. Um, very much. I know most people know my abandon in my district for a really amazing golf course, which it is, but it was also the home of the west coast game park, which horrific crimes were committed.
▶ 1:02:47And, um, I believe we need to hold criminal elements accountable. Um, I appreciate that. Um, you know, some stakeholders are working in good faith to make improvements. Um, and hopefully we can solve the issues that you're facing, miss stoner, through the ongoing rulemaking process. Um, I don't have time, but, uh, I want to thank everyone for being here. This has been some fascinating testimony. >> thank you.
▶ 1:03:17The chair now recognizes miss malloy for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, madam chairwoman. Um, Mr. brower, I your story is really interesting to me because I think it echoes what happens a lot in the west. So I just want to make sure that we're we're putting a fine point on what happened. So based on your testimony, the fish bypass channel was built. By whom? >> thank you for your question.
▶ 1:03:42The fish bypass, originally the corps of engineers had to do something to recover the endangered species pallid sturgeon on the missouri river because of the flood control dams they built at fort peck, montana and lake sakakawea in north dakota. Um, the pallid sturgeon. The wild ones are 75 years old, and the irrigation project we are is 120 years old. So obviously it worked for a while. But 75 years ago they built those flood control dams.
▶ 1:04:12Uh, they couldn't find a solution for fort peck. And flood control is very important for everybody on the missouri river and the mississippi river. Uh, but the point is, is they talk the bureau of reclamation into doing something at intake because we only have a little weir and underwater parking. >> so it was built by the bureau of reclamation. >> corps of engineers and the bureau of reclamation together. >> okay. So federal agencies and and it was built on what land? >> it was built on the usbr land.
▶ 1:04:42>> so federal land. And it was built to satisfy a federal obligation to the endangered species act. >> yes, that the ninth circuit appeals court ruled did not apply to the lip because we preexisted. >> so federal agency built a federal project on federal land, and now you're on the hook to maintain it. >> and they never got an agreement for us to do any such thing.
▶ 1:05:08>> so why should the states of montana and, sorry, north dakota bear the burden of a federal project on federal land? >> that is the question. And thank you for asking it. >> yeah, I don't have an answer for and over and over in the west. Um, so I appreciate you being here to, to testify about it. You testified that responsibility should follow authority, and I agree, um, in this case, who controls the land?
▶ 1:05:34We already talked about who controls the land, the design, the esa compliance obligations. But why does that matter? For accountability? >> well, honestly, they decided to build it. They decided to build it in a fish friendly way without bank protections. Now they're suffering, uh, $2 million a year, um, repairs. It's supposed to be in less and less as it goes on. Um, I do not know. >> thank you. I appreciate that.
▶ 1:06:05I don't I don't know either. It seems like if you are going to design, require and build a project, you should be the entity that's accountable for it. Um, not design it, build it, and then force a state to be the one that maintains it, especially at expense, when they don't have the the resources for it. >> and this actually helps the endangered species and all the native fish the best.
▶ 1:06:28This act, because it will be taken care of when the farmers can't afford to do it, it won't be maintained and it'll stop passing the endangered species. And nobody wants that. >> thank you. I appreciate you being here and talking about that. It's helpful for us as a committee to hear these stories and to have to think through what our role is in overseeing that. Um, and, chief anders, I also got to go to alaska in august with congressman begich.
▶ 1:06:56Um, and it was the first time I'd ever been to your beautiful state. And it will not be the last time. Um, but you stated that alaska natives have been stewarding migratory birds for 10,000 years, and I've got about a minute left. Would you just be willing to address how that history challenges the idea that the federal government needs to protect these same species from your people now? >> sure. Thank you for the question. Um, yeah. We have a very intimate relationship with migratory birds.
▶ 1:07:26Um, our hunters, they they're able to, um, you know, really mimic bird species. And it's really beautiful. And it's a beautiful connection that's living and breathing. And so in, in that relationship with migratory birds, you know, along with, uh, other ungulates, you know, caribou, moose and marine mammals, you know, it's in our every interest to ensure these species continue for our future because, you know, we think about our future to ensure our cultures are living and
▶ 1:07:58Breathing. And I want to reference the knowledge system, the knowledge system that uplifts this economic system, indigenous economic system. And that's the knowledge of the environment. So depending on how the winds are blowing or you know, where the breeding areas are, our hunters know where the where the species are. And I hope I answered your question, but I really you know, another angle is um, our our dancing.
▶ 1:08:23We, we have a spiritual connection through our indigenous song and dance, and that's another, um, element as well. Thanks. >> thank you. That did answer my question. I'm out of time, so I will yield back. >> thank you. The chair now recognizes miss dingell for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, madam chair, and thank you for including h.r. 3276, the local communities and bird habitat stewardship act as part of today's hearing.
▶ 1:08:49I'm very proud to lead this bipartisan bill with congressman kline. In north america, more than 1 in 4 breeding birds has been lost since 1970. The largest cause of this population decline is the loss and degradation of bird habitat, restoring bird habitats in rural and urban parks and greenways can make a real difference in conserving bird populations for future generations.
▶ 1:09:19This legislation, the local communities and bird habitat stewardship act, would make $1 million available annually through a competitive grant program to protect, restore and enhance urban bird habitats, reduce urban hazards to birds, engage communities in scientific monitoring, and educate the public about bird conservation.
▶ 1:09:44This will expand the reach of the current urban bird treaty grant program, which partners with 31 cities and would give the program dedicated statutory statutory authorization and funding. This bill has received support from the conservationists and sportsmen alike. It's endorsed by the national audubon society, the national wildlife federation, the american bird conservancy, and ducks unlimited. And I welcome all of my colleagues to join me.
▶ 1:10:13But now I'd like to turn my attention to our witnesses, and I listen to my colleagues. I did not go to alaska with, uh, chief hunters when they went last year. But I was married to a great man who I often tell the chairwoman I wish she could have known, um, who spent. We even had a discussion about who shot more in a work day, etc.
▶ 1:10:38I know I shouldn't say that, but he was very great friends with don young, and he loved alaska and served in the migratory bird commission for a very, very long time. But chief hunters, can you tell us why we should be protecting bird habitats and why? >> yes, absolutely.
▶ 1:11:00You know, our migratory bird species are essential not only to biodiversity of species on our planet, but also our cultural, um, survival, you know, our bird hunters every, every spring, um, you know, hunt geese, loons, thousands and thousands of migratory birds. And our communities, our tribes, uh, we protect the habitat of their breeding ground. I mean, these habitats are under threat.
▶ 1:11:29They're under threat of mining reality tv shows that, you know, we recently won a victory in our region with army corps of engineers to protect an essential habitat of migratory bird species. So, um, you know, it's an ongoing it's an ongoing battle. And I imagine my niece will have to face protecting bird habitat in the future. Um, you know, it's a it's a beautiful cultural relationship.
▶ 1:11:54When we dance our eagle wolf dance, we use eagle feathers that are, um, on our, um, on our head. And that headdress, you know, it really signifies how we honor the living and breathing spirituality of our our bird, um, relatives. Thank you. >> I know your niece does. It's an obligation we pass on to each generation. Chief hunters. How important is community involvement in bird conservation?
▶ 1:12:23>> it's essential, especially for co-management in alaska. And I'll just put a plug in that if we're going to successfully co-manage these species, there needs to be federal funding for alaska native co-management boards. Uh, co-management is essential in that, you know, you have populations who are in a living relationship with these species helping to manage the birds, meaning, you know, it's our hunters who are managing the species.
▶ 1:12:50And the closer you are to those who are hunting or living in relationship, the better the regulation is, the better the management is. So it's an essential framework, uh, between federal scientists, the federal agencies and our co-management agencies. Uh, all all, you know, all stop after the notion that if this bill does pass congress, this battle is not over yet.
▶ 1:13:15You know, this bill directs the secretary of interior and the secretary of state to then, uh, go into bilateral negotiations with japan to ensure that all 92 bird species were able to, that we do subsistence harvest, that we're able to utilize bird feathers in our art economy. So this is one step in a very long road ahead that preserves our way of life after, gosh, 100 years. So we it's essential that we prepare every generation. Thank you.
▶ 1:13:46>> thank you chief. I'm going to have to yield back. But I think we're all committed to working with you. I yield back, madam chair. >> thank you. And the chair now recognizes representative mcdowell for five minutes of questions. >> thank you, madam chairwoman. And thank you to the witnesses for being here today to testify. One of congress's most important responsibilities is to write the law clearly and narrowly, so that the american people are governed by elected representatives and not by unelected bureaucrats.
▶ 1:14:16And when statutes are written in a way that is vague, agencies tend to fill in the gaps. And too often that leads to overreach, confusion, higher costs for families, small businesses, tribes, and local communities.
▶ 1:14:34Clear congressional direction matters and making laws easier to follow, easier to enforce, uh, and that are far less expensive to comply with matters when guidance is straightforward, people can actually spend their time growing their businesses and serving their communities and creating jobs. Instead of hiring lawyers and consultants just to figure out what the government actually expects of them.
▶ 1:15:01The bills presented here today by my colleagues demonstrate the importance of mitigating government overreach and limiting that government overreach also means that we recognize the real differences between individuals, small businesses, nonprofits and tribal governments because a one size fits all regulation does not work when congress provides clear distinctions and statute, we prevent agencies
▶ 1:15:32From lumping everyone together under massive regulatory frameworks that were never designed for them. The american people deserve a government that is transparent, predictable and limited. And by providing simple, clear direction and law, we can protect against overreach. We can improve efficiency, and we can ensure that our policies serve the people that they're actually meant to help.
▶ 1:15:59Uh, chief anders, I thank you for your comments. Um, as a avid sportsman, uh, and someone that loves, uh, waterfowl hunting, uh, as much as anything, uh, I appreciate what you're doing and what you're saying, so thank you. But today, I want to focus my line of questions on representative gosar's bill, the protecting local zones act of 2026.
▶ 1:16:26So, miss senator, first off, thank you for traveling up from north carolina, as I did. Uh, you know as well as I that the weather was not great. Uh, so thank you for braving that to get here today. Uh, but can you answer how has the big cat public safety act impacted your foundation? Uh, and how can conservationists balance conservation efforts with common sense safety regulations? >> thank you for the question.
▶ 1:16:56Uh, it has impacted the members of the feline conservation foundation because many of our members are smaller facilities that are not government funded and that don't exist in large metropolitan areas. Uh, they serve rural communities, and many of them are very small businesses and rely heavily on volunteers for activities like assisting veterinarians when an animal exam is happening, um, maintaining the lawn. And right now, people can't mow within 15ft of a big cats habitat.
▶ 1:17:25Um, there's a large number of smaller facilities that are heavily impacted this way. Um, including my own facility in north carolina. Uh, it's extremely important, I think, that, um, that we have clarity in these issues, uh, and that, um.
▶ 1:17:45That we be given the guidance that is needed to make sure that we are fulfilling our roles. >> are the the pictures with lion and tiger cubs, uh, described in Mr. bryant's testimony legal under federal law today? >> no. >> how about baby jaguars? >> no. >> what about african leopards? >> no. >> how about cougars? >> no.
▶ 1:18:16>> and would those still be illegal if this bill passed? >> yes. All animals that are listed, uh, in the captive wildlife safety act would still be prohibited from any sort of public contact. >> so in Mr. bryant's testimony, he says that representative gosar's bill aims to undo the progress of the big cat public safety act. Is that true? Does this bill try to undo that? >> that is not the intent of this bill. >> and does this bill jeopardize the safety of americans?
▶ 1:18:46>> this bill does not. >> does it promote international smuggling? >> it should not promote anything illegal or anything that wasn't already permitted by the previous bill. >> does it enable transnational criminal enterprises? >> no. >> and lastly, does does this legislation threaten the very existence of imperiled wildlife? >> no. >> thank you, I yield back. >> thank you. The chair now recognizes Mr. gosar for five minutes of questioning.
▶ 1:19:18>> well, thank you very much, Mr. chairman. I see a commonality here. And that is big brother knows best. And that's so wrong. So wrong. And, uh, chief, I also got to go to your state of alaska. It was my first time. It was my second time, but my wife didn't get a chance to go fishing, so we were going to go back. If mom was happy, everybody's happy. So, um, uh, miss steiner, thank you for testifying today. Uh, with big cat safety act was considered.
▶ 1:19:46Congress was warned that an estimated 2 or 20,000 big cats are kept in private ownership in the united states. Yet if you look at the data, that's simply not true, right? So how many big cats are registered with the us fish and wildlife service because of this law? >> well, the fkf conducted a foia request from fish and wildlife service, and we found that there are 27 registrants across ten states holding 97 cats total, of which at least four have passed away already. >> can you say that again?
▶ 1:20:16Because I think it's so important. >> yes, 27 registrants across ten states holding a total of 97 big cats now. >> so the number excludes several animal sanctuaries actually accidentally registered even though they were exempt. Correct? >> that's correct. About, uh, 56 of those registrants, uh, were people who were already exempted but who registered possibly an error. >> so under the current law, can these sanctuaries unregister or cancel mistaken registration? >> they cannot.
▶ 1:20:46>> hmm. So how can this be? The gentleman to your right has said the sky is falling and that, uh, this experience, uh, will just speeds up. How do you see that? >> uh, I think that there's nothing in this bill that would allow activity that's currently criminal. Uh, to continue. >> wow. >> uh, let's see, uh, Mr. brower. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:21:13You know, former congressman from montana, and he gave you a nice call this weekend once again, uh, to reiterate my, uh, uh, in the individual in utah that I address you, the federal government built it wrong, and they knew they did it wrong. And yet they want to pass it off to the private sector. Is that right? >> exactly.
▶ 1:21:42They want to pass it to the irrigation districts. Who told them that this would erosion would happen if they didn't use bank protection. Mm. >> wow. That's pretty incredible. So the big brother's not always right, are they? >> I don't want to be the one that says that. >> well, I will, so I mean, they're not always right, you know. And we ought to be doing this together. Okay.
▶ 1:22:05And one of the things I see in, in legislation that's wrong, okay, is that we ought to have, um, sunsets and sunrise clauses in here because everything changes. So we need to adapt more fully to the application of the law and empower locals to be more participant, like the gentlelady to your left. Right. >> yes. >> would you agree? Mr. to that clause? Yeah. I find it over and over again that only big brother knows. Right. And that's wrong. Okay.
▶ 1:22:34A lot of times they get some things right, but it ought to be a collaboration between peoples, the government and its people that have vast interests. Okay. And I find it very interesting that, uh, miss miss, uh, brower. Right. No, miss. Under that, um, your expertise is kind of belittled by the government, aren't they? Because you don't you don't know what's right for birds, right?
▶ 1:23:04>> uh, congressman, I truly believe in, you know, the economic freedom that is the foundation of our country. And it amazes me the amount of regulation down to every little detail, even the use of bird feathers, is that, you know, we have to contend with, if, you know, you can imagine going to the grocery store and it being regulated, that's the amount of regulation. Thank you. >> well, you hit it on the nail on the head. You know, uh, there's so many regulations to the minutia that we sometimes lose sight of the big picture.
▶ 1:23:36And I think that's miss skinner would also say, would you agree? >> yes. >> I think of the the little zoo in my neighborhood, in my district. And it's over in glendale. They're fabulous stewards of the big cats. And they want to have that expertise and that and that environment to show kids of our future generations and be me, part of the current generation.
▶ 1:23:57So with that, uh, gentlelady, I would also like to, uh, enter into the record for unanimous consent, uh, two letters of support from the zoological association of america and the feline conservation foundation. >> without objection. So ordered. >> thank you. I yield back. >> wonderful. I want to thank the witnesses for their for your valuable testimony. And all the members who came today for their questions. The members of the committ may have some additional questions for the witness, and we will ask you to respond to those in writing.
▶ 1:24:26Under committee rule three, members of the committee must submit such questions to the subcommittee clerk by 5 p.m. Eastern on monday, february 9th. The hearing record will be kept held open for ten business days for these responses. And if there is no further business without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. Thank you.