▶ 0:00:02The Subcommittee on Europe will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to examine weaponized mass migration as a security risk to Europe and the United States. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. The threat environment facing Europe is rapidly evolving with direct implications of US interests.
▶ 0:00:32Our discussion today will help shape policy priorities in responding to malign actors use of fifth generation Last December, this subcommittee conducted a hearing examining the hybrid warfare tactics employed by Russia and China against our NATO allies. This hearing builds upon that foundation focusing on one of the most tools in this hybrid playbook. Weaponized mass migration.
▶ 0:01:01To the east and south of Europe's hostile actors are exploiting human movement to weaken sovereign states, strain institutions, and fracture alliance cohesion. On the surface, what appears to be a humanitarian or border management challenge is in reality part of a broader campaign of hybrid aggression.
▶ 0:01:24Look no further than Russia's 2015 intervention in Syria which resulted in mass migration to Europe or Belarus's more recent weaponization of migrants against In 2018, Polish authorities reported only three attempts by individuals to illegally cross the Belarus border into In 2025 the number was over 25,000.
▶ 0:01:48These tactics are delivered and effective in causing chaos for European governments and societies at large. By directing, facilitating, or manipulating migration flows malign actors seek to overwhelm border provoke crises and to degrade the overall national security of target countries. The objective of these tactics is not simply disruption but erosion.
▶ 0:02:15Erosion of public confidence, erosion of state capacity, and erosion of unity among allies. Weaponized migration does not occur in a It intersects with organized crime, human trafficking, illicit illicit finance, and Islamic extremism creating security blind spots that hostile actors are quick to exploit.
▶ 0:02:38The human cost of weaponized mass migration are significant and European citizens face growing strains in public safety and social services while migrants are often subjected to exploitation, coercion, or potential These human costs are intrinsic to the strategy of sowing chaos, fear, and When assimilation fails and parallel societies emerge, radical ideologies take root
▶ 0:03:08undermining internal security and complicating counterterrorism efforts. This directly affects US interests by weakening some of our closest allies and amplifying threats to the homeland. When migration is weaponized to destabilize Europe it undermines the collective security architecture that has preserved peace for decades. While the EU and NATO increasingly recognize weaponized migration as a hybrid threat, recognition alone is insufficient.
▶ 0:03:39Effective deterrence requires coordination and sustained commitment from both sides of the This committee has a responsibility to examine how adversaries exploit and how these tactics intersect with other hybrid tactics ideological ideological extremism and organized I would note that later this week, I along with many of my colleagues are planning to attend the Munich Security Conference where I look forward to engaging
▶ 0:04:10with allies and partners on the critical security matters of the day, including on the challenges of hybrid warfare. I look forward to the discussion and testimony of our witnesses and a productive discussion on how to confront this evolving threat. The chair now recognizes the ranking member from Massachusetts, Mr. Keating, for an opening statement. Thank you, Mr. And thank you for our witnesses for being here today.
▶ 0:04:36In today's changing world migration is widespread often because of poverty climate change, war, and more. Yet more devastating is the practice of weaponized migration the deliberate manipulation creation or exploitation of population flows across borders as a tool of warfare.
▶ 0:04:58This form of forced migration takes advantage of vulnerable populations to to uh come to their political ends and in the past decade, the migration of vulnerable populations in Europe has shaped our politics and our responses. For example the European Union's uh practical response to this crisis demonstrates the importance of preparedness and coordination when responding to sudden uh indices uh of incidents of migration.
▶ 0:05:28The Russian and Belarussian regimes' deliberate use of migrants as a tool of political instability in Poland and is not only morally reprehensible but also destabilizing. In response the European Union uh and the European national governments have introduced a wide range of measures to manage migration flows, including the EU-wide pact on migration and asylum.
▶ 0:05:56While the pact's proposals may not provide the right match here in the United States the European Union is working together across national politics and borders to find common European solutions to alleviate the impacts of migration. On this side of the Atlantic, I believe it's vital for the subcommittee to debate how we can best support our allies and partners in this effort.
▶ 0:06:20It's counterproductive to simply comment on the impacts of mass migration on our European allies while proposing overly restricted solutions that are unsupported by data. Nor does it serve any constructive purpose to cast blame on one religion or a group of people for the impacts of a broader conflict or forced migration campaign.
▶ 0:06:40In fact uh Popes Francis and Leo both have stressed how cooperating towards solutions, not sowing the seeds of discontent, is inconsistent with uh Christian tenets. How it's consistent. Unfortunately, rather than invest in solutions which can we can do work on together to solve these problems, the Trump administration has responded with divisive platitudes and rhetoric.
▶ 0:07:06For example, the administration's national security strategy raised the prospects of European civilization erasure. As an effect of migration, this rhetorical castigation castigation plays an us versus them uh type of challenge and it's not only misplaced but it's damaging and irresponsible.
▶ 0:07:28At the same time, the administration's belief that it's well-placed to advise Europe on immigration when people there are looking at the videos in their televisions uh there of masked agents seizing, detaining, and shooting and killing American citizens who are here And the Trump administration is also shuttering programs that ultimately make us safer at home.
▶ 0:07:50At the State Department, Secretary Ortagus' illegal reorganization slashed the Bureau of Counterterrorism's Office of Countering Violent Extremism and elimination I condemned in a September 20 25 bipartisan letter which I'd like to enter in the record without objection. Without objection. Furthermore, the President's budget request zeroed out the funding for the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement.
▶ 0:08:18We know that when countries can be affected uh and the rule of law is uh that we must must work together in maintaining a rule of law and a trusted police force. If that happens, there'll be fewer people to choose to migrate. INL's programs did this and the Trump administration chose to cut them.
▶ 0:08:40At the Department of Homeland Security, the administration zeroed out the Targeted Violence and Terrorism Prevention Grant which was the sole federal program dedicated to helping communities strengthen their ability to prevent and respond to acts of political violence including terrorism. The DHS's own website said that the program saves lives and saves money. DHS said it would use the grant's resources to implement {quote} higher priority mission critical needs, whatever that means.
▶ 0:09:09Furthermore, they installed a 22-year-old, 1 year out of college, head of the office overseeing this grant. The 22-year-old's predecessor was an Army veteran with more than two decades of national security experience. Many Americans have strong-willed beliefs on how to mitigate the impacts of migration.
▶ 0:09:28There's not one golden solution to all these legitimate concerns, but I also believe we must recognize the administration's lack of action in the problems even they themselves have And it's continued attacks on our European allies which make cooperation with our allies going forward all the more difficult. I look forward to the questioning the witnesses and I yield back. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record.
▶ 0:09:58We are pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today on this important topic. Uh first of all, Admiral Mark Montgomery, the CCTI senior director and senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. Mr. Matthew Boyse, a senior fellow at the Center on Europe and Eurasia at the Hudson Institute. And Ms. Natalia Banalescu Baghdad. How did I do?
▶ 0:10:24The deputy director for the International Program at the Migration Policy Institute. Uh the chair recognizes the importance of the issues before us and is grateful to you uh to be here to speak with us today. Your full statements will be made part of the record and I'll ask each of you to keep your spoken remarks to 5 minutes in order to allow time for member questions. I now recognize Admiral Montgomery for an opening statement, sir.
▶ 0:10:53Chairman Self, Ranking Member Keating, and distinguished members of the committee, on behalf of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, thank you again for the opportunity to testify before the subcommittee. I'm pleased that this committee's leadership and that it continues to focus on Russia's efforts to destabilize Europe. I continue to believe that the greatest threat to Euro-Atlantic stability and international peace is Russia's illegal war in Ukraine. If Russia prevails in Ukraine, we can expect to see a barrage of the same tactics, this time directed towards America's treaty allies.
▶ 0:11:22But the focus of today's hearing is weaponized migration and its role as a key component of Russia's new generation warfare campaign. My testimony will discuss weaponized migration and its impact on NATO's military readiness. New generation warfare, what the US refers to as hybrid warfare, covers an array of Russian non-kinetic activities, including covert and overt influence operations, cyber attacks, election drone operations, and weaponized Russia believes weaponized migration
▶ 0:11:52puts NATO allies under duress, throwing them into a state of chaos, undermining democratic institutions, and reducing their ability to devote resources to defense and security Therefore, Russia is both actively exploiting the refugee crisis caused by the war in Ukraine and utilizing desperate immigrants from Syria and the Middle East to sow societal discord and destabilize Europe. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has caused the greatest refugee crisis in Europe since World War II.
▶ 0:12:22Throughout the war, Russia has targeted civilian and energy infrastructure in in part to further exacerbate that migration crisis. In the first few months of the invasion, Russian forces displaced over 6.5 million people, overwhelming European energy and food resources, and placing countries in a state of chaos. That overall effect was staggering. Russia then compounds this effect by altering the flow of non-European migrants as well.
▶ 0:12:49Since the Ukraine war began, the EU border agencies found a 200% increase in non-European migrant arrivals along the EU's eastern border and a corresponding decrease in the passage along the more traditional routes like the Mediterranean. This signals Russia's active efforts to manufacture a a migration crisis in Eastern Europe. Like other new generation warfare campaigns, Russia's effort to weaponize migration is done in collaboration with Putin's puppet state, Belarus.
▶ 0:13:18Russia and Belarus share borders with numerous European states. The Kremlin exploits these borders, encouraging and resourcing influx of migrants from the Middle East and Africa to transit through Russia and Belarus and into Eastern Europe. In the immediate ramp-up to Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine in February the Lukashenka administration flew migrants to the capital city of Minsk and then transported them via state buses to the borders of EU countries, including Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland.
▶ 0:13:48In June 2024, there were 400 immigrants a day crossing the Poland-Belarus And Belarusian and Russian criminal gangs secure visas and transport for these immigrants, sometimes coordinate with Belarusian border officials to cut fences to allow entry into the European Union. And probably most alarmingly, last year, four tunnels were discovered that were likely used to smuggle migrants from Poland into from Belarus.
▶ 0:14:15As a direct result, the situation along the borders often devolves into violence and chaos, which the Kremlin as well as European extremists use to push their In addition to the effects on societal stability, the migrant crisis has cost Poland alone an estimated 30 billion euros over the last 4 years. Weaponized migration degrades NATO readiness. It forces our allies to divert military resources by creating sustained operational pressures along critical frontiers.
▶ 0:14:45For example, in November 2021, Poland deployed 15,000 troops to its Belarusian border, pulling forces from other defensive and training missions. Lithuania and Latvia have had to do the So, not only does the Kremlin's exploitation of the migrant crisis help Putin achieve his political objectives in Poland and the Baltics, it also places NATO and America's ability to fight with and through its allies in My written testimony provides a numerous recommendations to address the full range of Russia's new generation warfare.
▶ 0:15:14But to combat the weaponized migration in particular, I want to highlight four recommendations. First, the US and NATO should continue to raise awareness of Russian tactics, exposing and identifying how Russia weaponizes migration. Next, the United States and NATO should provide technical assistance to border states, including American surveillance and border security technology. Third, NATO should direct its existing hybrid warfare units to monitor Russia's weaponized migration efforts and take actions to disrupt those campaigns.
▶ 0:15:42And finally, the US should continue to put maximum pressure on Belarus, including imposing more sanctions on Lukashenka's regime and specifically on companies, including airlines, that facilitate migrant movements. Thank you for the opportunity to testify Uh thank you, Admiral. Uh and now recognize Mr. Boyse for an opening uh Chairman Self, Ranking Member Keating, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today.
▶ 0:16:09Before joining the Hudson Institute, I served in the Foreign Service for 35 years and spent much time dealing with Europe and the post-Soviet space. I wrote my first article on weaponized migration at Radio Free Europe in 1985. Then it was East German the East German communist regime trafficking economic migrants from developing countries to West Berlin to earn hard currency, increase social cost, and stoke tensions in West Western Germany. Since then, we've seen many other cases, including against the United States.
▶ 0:16:34Leaders have long understood not understood that our adversaries use migrants and mass migration as weapons. The committee's attention to this is therefore extremely timely and very important. This is a complex issue, so I've drafted a statement for the record to stay within my allotted time. Some may ask why Americans should even care about this phenomenon at all. Don't we have enough migration-related problems at home? Isn't migration a global phenomenon driven by poverty, conflict, war, etc.?
▶ 0:17:01Don't EU treaties and regulations serve as pull factors that enable migrants to claim asylum too easily? Isn't migration just another instrument of statecraft? Doesn't organized crime also play a role? Isn't migration necessary to bolster demographic decline and enrich our societies? And where is the evidence that the Kremlin is using migrant migrants as weapons against the United States and NATO?
▶ 0:17:23Critics of the weaponization thesis make all these arguments, and some are worth discussing, but I will argue in the contrary that the men who rule Russia view and use migrants as weapons, that the Kremlin has been a push factor, playing a role in magnifying or driving recent migration crises in Europe, and that this matters to the United States because it negatively affects the NATO space for all the reasons that everyone else has said already. Strong and and capable allies are a vital US interest, and weaponized migration makes them and us weaker.
▶ 0:17:52In waging hybrid war against the West, Putin has reached into the Soviet playbook, which has long treated ethnic groups as pawns to achieve political goals. He has updated the old Soviet active measures playbook into the broader hybrid war concept and uses migrants as human ammunition, as one expert calls it, along with disinformation, cyber, and all the other tools we've already that have already been mentioned. This he uses to interfere in domestic affairs, to generate leverage leverage, and to exacerbate transatlantic differences.
▶ 0:18:19And this increases allied security vulnerabilities and thus ours. So, there is a continuity in the use of migration as a weapon from the Soviet to the Putin eras, even as its use has evolved. This should surprise no one given Putin's KGB background and the major role the secret police and intel officers play in Russia today. As the old Soviet saying goes, once a Chekist, always a Chekist. Now, when the Russian when Russian officials openly discuss using migration as a weapon, we should listen.
▶ 0:18:47In 1997, the ideologue Alexander Dugin wrote, "Those who are quicker to develop a model for the disintegration of other societies will be the winners in the construction of new international relations. Chaos is a multipurpose Former Putin advisor Vladislav Surkov wrote that creating divisions by non-military means can achieve geopolitical objectives in neighboring states or political military alliances.
▶ 0:19:09Major General Alexander Vladimirov wrote about using migration in a coercive manner by creating creating the conditions for the flow and sentiment of ethnic groups in hostile states to destabilize them. And in 2023, Russian officials told senior Finnish officials, "We have a tool here that works against you." None of this is new, but it bears repeating.
▶ 0:19:28Now, the Kremlin, its allies, and our proxies have played a role in all major migration crises in that Europe has faced in recent years, whether it was the 2015 bombing in Syria that drove hundreds of thousands of refugees to Turkey and into Europe, or the trafficking of migrants to the Finnish and Norwegian borders in 2015 and 2023, or support for Lukashenka, or the destabilizing the Maghreb, Sahel, and parts of sub-Saharan Africa, propelling millions of people to Europe.
▶ 0:19:54In all of these, Russia acts as as either an instigator, promoter, facilitator, or ally. And organized crime, of course, has also played a role. I have included these cases in my written statement and happy to go into the into discussion. To For the Kremlin, migrants are like a thermostat that can be dialed up or dialed down, putting member NATO member states under pressure, and then as desired to send short-term political messages, extract costs, seek policy changes, and over the long run and accelerate weaknesses in Western societies from from and from
▶ 0:20:25So, these have also had uh There's also a nexus with um uh with um the with the spread of Islamism and is Islamist ideology that exacerbates uh social tensions and under miles undermines allies' reliability in confronting challenges facing facing the global West. This uh this nexus has altered political dynamics across the alliance.
▶ 0:20:48Every NATO member state now has at least one party with strong focus on uh migration, Islam, and Islamism, and in almost a dozen countries, it's either among the most popular or can influence policy or can decide governing coalitions or hold power or is a candidate for power. Many of these parties are also more uh accommodating accommodating to US adversaries and not as supportive as NATO and contain varying degrees of anti-Americanism. And you know, these phenomena also hinder key US foreign policy goals, for example, in the Middle East.
▶ 0:21:18In conclusion, the United States has allies in uh in um European law enforcement and intelligence agencies in politics, government, and elsewhere that are doing what they can to deal with these phenomena, but they do not always have top cover from their from their political class. Some may argue that the US does not have a dog in this fight, that these are European problems, that the that the EU has contributed to them or made them worse. But the status quo is not working, and the US cannot do nothing. These phenomena are not just irregular migration flows.
▶ 0:21:45They are intentional, strategic, and brazen as they weaponize people as pawns in the Kremlin's uh geopolitical project. I'm I'm already over my time, so I'll be happy to go into some of the recommendations that will help that could help address these challenges in the discussion. Thank you again for the opportunity to speak to you today, and I look forward to your questions. Uh thank you. I now recognize Ms. uh for an opening statement.
▶ 0:22:11Chairman Self, Ranking Member Keating, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Natalia Banulescu-Bogdan, and I am the deputy director of the International Program at the Migration Policy Institute. Louder? Um a non-partisan, independent research institution focused on practical and effective policy options for managing The weaponization of migration is nothing new.
▶ 0:22:40Countries have been engineering migration flows or threatening to do so to extract political concessions for the past 70 years, and most have achieved at least some of their goals. I welcome the opportunity today to talk about what policy options the United States has in its arsenal to protect its interest and that of its allies and effectively understand and confront this So, first I need to acknowledge that the threat is real and growing.
▶ 0:23:07Since 2021, Belarus, with Russian support, has systematically orchestrated migration flows toward EU borders. Countries like Turkey and Morocco have threatened to do the same opportunistically, using migration as a crude bargaining chip, even if not a Weaponization works because it exposes the limits of what democracies can do quickly within the constraints of law and available resources.
▶ 0:23:36It works because it successfully exploits and fuels divisions within pinpointing existing weak spots and capitalizing on anti-immigration The potency of this weapon derives from the expectation that sudden and unanticipated migration flows will foment chaos and discontent. But the main point I'm going to make today is that restrictive and punitive measures on their own are insufficient.
▶ 0:24:06We've seen European countries respond in two main ways. So, first, trying to raise the costs for those who would weaponize migration through things like sanctions and freezing assets. And the second is restricting flows through border fortifications and in some cases suspending asylum processing. And while these measures can be effective in the short term, they come at high costs, and they don't address the root causes of migration.
▶ 0:24:32Countries do need the flexibility to deploy emergency measures to react to a crisis at their borders, but over the long run, punitive measures on their own are not going to be effective or First, because they don't shift underlying dynamics. If countries are always in a reactive posture, nothing is stopping hostile actors from using weaponization over and over again, requiring ever more costly responses that divert attention from other priorities and inspire copycats.
▶ 0:25:04And second, emergency measures intended to be temporary can become permanent fixtures, spurring a race to the bottom as states opt out of inconvenient obligations and undermining due process protections that define democratic So, I'd like to point us to a smarter approach, which is building resilience. The paradox of weaponization is that the best strategy is often neutralization rather than escalation.
▶ 0:25:30Taking the sting out of the issue reduces the strength of the weapon. Our best example of this is Europe's response to Ukrainian displacement. The EU activated its temporary protection directive within days of the Russian invasion in 2022, eventually granting nearly 5 million Ukrainians legal status and immediate access to housing, health care, and labor markets.
▶ 0:25:53By creating orderly legal pathways and strong border monitoring for security threats, Europe effectively neutralized the potential for Russia to weaponize Ukrainian displacement as a tool of hybrid warfare. Europe is now pursuing a comprehensive overhaul through its pact on migration and asylum, which takes effect later this year in July. The idea is to create a much faster, fairer asylum system and make it easier to return those whose claims are rejected.
▶ 0:26:23Europeans are also experimenting with doing some processing and screening before physical arrival at borders, essentially breaking with past models, and also leaning into migration diplomacy through extensive partnerships with origin and transit countries. They're also strategically expanding legal migration pathways, including work The system is not perfect, and it remains to be seen how it will be implemented.
▶ 0:26:49But there's a recognition here that building strong, resilient immigration systems both domestically and through international partnerships is not just good migration policy. It's a concrete national security investment that reduces our vulnerability to manipulation by hostile actors. Thank Uh thank you. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning. Mr.
▶ 0:27:15Montgomery, we all have used the word weaponization But too many people, I believe, see this as a humanitarian issue. How do the liberal democracies, given our legal processes that several of you have mentioned, how do we actually get our citizens, because I think Abraham Lincoln said, "If you're and I use this in the broader sense of liberal democracies, we need our people to be behind us." How do we get our people to understand
▶ 0:27:46and the and our NATO allies to understand the citizens there that this is a weapon, not a humanitarian crisis? So, first, I think part of it is that you have to explain that this is part of a campaign, right? Russia is this I you can't look at the weaponization of in isolation.
▶ 0:28:06You have to look at it as part of a campaign that is working to undermine the societies of Eastern Um we saw it the other day in a electrical power attack on the Polish grid. We found explosive devices on Polish railways in in other areas. The drone attacks that stretch from Poland to the Baltics all the way to Denmark now. This is all part of a Russian new new generation warfare campaign. So, first, I'd frame it as a campaign, sir. The second thing you have to do is you have to treat these as two different aspects.
▶ 0:28:35One is what Russia is doing and the immigrants it's the you know, immigrants that it the migrants that it's doing it to. You need to treat once the migrants are in your country, you have to treat them But that doesn't mean you should treat Russia humanely. Russia is conducting this and then they're using the Belarusian pawn. So, you need to look at this as two different aspects. One, once a person's in your country, how you treat them reflects on how your country is.
▶ 0:29:03And then, you know, and what you want your country's moral morals and character to be. But allowing Russia to bring them in is not a human rights issue. Allowing Russia to drive them in, building tunnels, cutting holes in fences, you know, forcing people you know, forcing migrants into Eastern Europe, that is the you know, campaign the new generation warfare campaign. Mr. Borze, would you like to comment? Yes, excellent question.
▶ 0:29:31Um the the our adversaries in the Kremlin are utilizing this very sense of humanity that is so present in Western Europe and in Western and you and and twisting it against us because they know that the that our sense of humanity is is is deep and wide and that we don't like to see these things happen. So, the the the the the cynicism and the brutality is is is really quite extraordinary.
▶ 0:29:59the other the other thing though is that we are you know this isn't this is sort of this is our issue because it affects our interests, but we have to be able to rely more on our European allies to do more themselves. the hearing that you've organized today and and is is extremely useful, but we need to be talking about this a lot because it's become an issue in all European societies.
▶ 0:30:28It's it's it's obviously animating people. But the the political class doesn't always pay attention. Now, there have been some improvements in in in in the last year or so, but it's taken quite some time when you look at when this started in in seriously in 2015. It's taken quite a long time for the EU to to grapple with this problem.
▶ 0:30:52And so it's it's left this problem We are are I think it's in our interests to raise this with our in dialogue with our European um allies, partners, friends to to to to sensitize them to how important it is for us too. It's so it's it's not just their issue, it's also our issue.
▶ 0:31:14And and and and try to energize these governments to do even more because it what they've been doing in terms of fortifying fortifying their borders, some of the some of the changes that have been taken have taken place legislatively in some countries, some of the actions that have been taken are are some countries have figured this out, but others have not.
▶ 0:31:37And we need to talk about this with our allies and friends because I mean, you know, we can't want their security more than they do, but this does affect our interests very seriously and they need to take it seriously themselves. Yep. Admiral Montgomery um we know that the migrants pass through the eastern frontier countries deeper into the EU and NATO. How do they give how do they push back against that given the open borders within the EU for instance?
▶ 0:32:07And I have 10 seconds. So, I think they're going to have to review, you know, some countries are beginning to review their Schengen zone procedures and I think this is long-term going to introduce real challenges for the Schengen zone um authorizations that for free passage. Very good. And I ask unanimous consent to enter a document dated February 9th, titled instrumentation of migration at the Latvian-Belarusian So, ordered.
▶ 0:32:36I now recognize ranking member Mr. Keating for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Admiral Montgomery, you did a a great job, I think sort of separating out all the issues dealing with migration issue as well, but you also touched on the ways that uh Russia's doing this. And we say Russia because Belarus wouldn't be doing anything without Putin's approval and is commanding of of doing that.
▶ 0:33:06Now, you mentioned the fact that the hybrid warfare that's occurring also affects elections and disinformation surrounding that. So, could you explain how sometimes these issues, whether it's you know, the military being employed and lack of resources, whether it's disinformation, whether it's affecting elections. Can you see how it blends together? For instance, how they use migration for more than one purpose and specifically how do you see them using it to affect elections?
▶ 0:33:37I think that's a a great point. I I think again, the Russians are very good at this campaign. The Soviets were excellent at it. I mean, they had half of Africa thinking AIDS was a CIA project from either Fort Detrick or a CIA lab. So, we have to give them credit for this and part of this campaign is that it absolutely it's absolutely integrated and phased over time. So, when do they put pressure on a country? When it's closest to its elections.
▶ 0:34:03So, you drive migrants in, you conduct um wouldn't conduct a sabotage attack then because that's clearly you can't deny that, but you could do a cyber attack that shows that for some reason the governing party can't maintain power. For some reason the governing party can't maintain its borders. And then most recently we've seen in elections the use of TikTok and other tools of the Chinese authoritarian state used by the Russians to manipulate elections. So, it's about timing, sir. Thank you.
▶ 0:34:34Miss Benalul Bogdan um you were talking about the importance of not being reactive in posture. But the the difficulty and the challenges they have in Europe are the fact that they're all sovereign countries trying to come up with common solutions.
▶ 0:34:50You know, we look at our own country from state to state and we see different you know, feelings from one state to the other, it must be extremely difficult for one sovereign country with its own borders trying to work with another different laws and different impacts. Where some of the like countries like Latvia, Lithuania, or Poland are more effective.
▶ 0:35:13Now, seen Poland amazingly when I was there absorbed so many people and put them in the children in the school system and and do a enormous job. Not every country has the resources or the ability to do that. So, could you just talk to the difficulty that's there with so many sovereign countries all trying to work together on this migration issue all with they can be in common groups like NATO, but they can also have their own separate sovereignty.
▶ 0:35:45Thank you. I think that's that's exactly It it has been one of the most immense challenges for the EU to create a common playbook for something as divisive as migration where different countries are affected very different differently. Some have the uh uh you know, chances of geography.
▶ 0:36:10Others are magnets for onward migration because of their labor markets and and need for workers. They have very different resources. And so what's been very important is first of all recognizing that the biggest challenge to this block is instability and instability in one country creates instability for all as well as for its allies.
▶ 0:36:34And so this has been the inspiration behind trying to stitch all of these disparate voices with competing priorities and goals into one collective union with possibility for collective standards and norms and procedures.
▶ 0:36:52And we want to get to the point where 10,000 people arriving at a border at the behest of a hostile state working in tandem with bad actors, you know, who are non-state actors, etc. Yes, it's a crisis that we have to confront, but it's not a destabilizing one. And that's the whole impetus behind the EU pact on migration and asylum.
▶ 0:37:19It is to create a set of rules so that when these things happen, we are not inventing reinventing the wheel on the spot and then doing it differently in ways that go against other interests that we have and create all sorts of chaos. I yield back. I now recognize the representative from South Carolina, Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Chairman Keats Self.
▶ 0:37:48I want to congratulate you on being selected for the Munich Security Conference delegation this week. That's such a high honor and just grateful for your service. I'm also grateful for each of you appearing and as as we discussed immigration, my law practice was immigration to help persons come to our country legally, particularly from India. And in fact, it was incredible to see the success of Indian Americans.
▶ 0:38:18They now own 60% of all hotels and motels in the United States. The per capita income of the Indian American community, 6 million people, is twice that of the average American. And so we benefit from the I believe the immigration laws that we have and our country is so fortunate, but we do have obviously a situation where it can be weaponized migration and it is a devious tool of hybrid warfare used by war criminal Putin
▶ 0:38:48to destabilize and undermine the West with surges of migration from the Middle East and Africa. And indeed, this is an act of war as I believe we're in a conflict and that is dictatorships with rule of gun invading democracies with rule of law. With that in mind, no bigger case has been the unholy alliance between war criminal Putin and the deranged and now deposed former dictator Bashar al-Assad.
▶ 0:39:15Over 13 million Syrians, half of the nation's population, were forced to flee the chemical weapons and barrel bombs dropped by Russian planes. War criminal Putin conducted mass murder in Aleppo and Russian bases that are still there should be removed never forgetting With that in mind, I'm grateful that we've introduced bipartisan the Horam 2.0 Act to designate the successor organization of the Wagner Group as a foreign terrorist organization.
▶ 0:39:44With that in mind, and Chairman Self was ahead of the curve, I wanted to ask how in the world do you try to explain in a non-political way the dangers of weaponized migration, but he already asked that. So, I'm going to go to the next one. How is it that it can be effectively Admiral explained a deportation of illegal aliens? And and is that being done in Europe? Was that for me, sir?
▶ 0:40:14Yes. Yeah, well, first I do want to say I fully support the Harm 2.0 Act. Absolutely, it's the right way to counter Russian next-generation warfare. And you know, obviously we had to work it since Prigozhin's accidental air accident. You know, so that that's good. The listen, I think that what we have to do at this point again is treat allow the countries to block the illegal the try to block the weaponized migration in. Once it's in, you have to treat you have to treat the people you know, the migrants that come in humanely.
▶ 0:40:45There's there's international law about that, but in terms of web the weaponization of migration, it's absolutely appropriate for Poland to build a wall to build a first offense and now to build a wall between themselves and Belarus. It's appropriate for them to search for tunnels. It's appropriate for them to hold Belarus accountable for what they're doing. So, I I fully understand that. The problem you have is once you have a migrants inside your country, you're governed by the laws of your country and you should treat them accordingly.
▶ 0:41:14I think the vast I think the vast majority majority of these countries are also governed by EU that were mentioned are governed by European law as well, and they have to adhere to And indeed, thank you so much. And I want to congratulate the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. You make a phenomenal difference promoting democracy around the world. And then fortunately, we already have the Hudson Institute. And with that, Mr.
▶ 0:41:38Boyce, the situation with the Putin puppet of what what is the status of the relationships that we can have or not have with the dictatorship in Minsk? That we the United States can have with him or not.
▶ 0:41:59Yes, that that is one of those things those tantalizing During the Trump one when I was at the State Department, there was a a reach outreach to him to to try to set that relationship. But after the stolen elections in in 2020 and that which which then prompted some of the the response from the EU, it became it became increasingly difficult to have any kind of relationship with him at all, especially given the I mean the nature of his
▶ 0:42:29regime plus the way he's he allows himself to be used so brazenly by by Putin as well as how he deals with his neighbors. So, it's it's you know, it's it's not exactly going to be easy to establish some sort of a relationship with with with him and with his regime.
▶ 0:42:45However, there are there are sometimes ways in which I mean he the fact that he released a number of political prisoners a few months ago it was one of those gestures that he obviously made to try to try to reset the relationship with the United States.
▶ 0:43:05I think we have to but here again, weaponizing people using his using political prisoners who shouldn't have been in prison in the first place as as as as hostages and to dangle them in front of the United States and you say see we can we can release you if you want to take another relationship. This is this is unbelievable cynicism.
▶ 0:43:24Hey, I want to thank you for recognizing great election because I can't wait for Chairman Self to meet the legal president of Belarus Svetlana Tikhanovskaya who will be present in Munich. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. I now recognize the representative from California, Mr. Costa. For 5 minutes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I this subcommittee [clears throat] hearing on weaponization of mass migration is a real security issue not only for Europe, but for the United [clears throat] States.
▶ 0:43:54And I I get a sense of bipartisan agreement, at least it seems like it about the potential impact of this. Listening to the your testimonies, I'm going to say something that my colleagues here have heard me say before, but that modern-day Russia I believe today is a is a syndicate masquerading as a And they've got a mob boss. And it's called Putin. And we know what mob bosses do.
▶ 0:44:25And to bring this this weaponization of migration to his other of the arsenal that he holds, we are seeing that the devastation. 5 million, 6 million Ukrainian were were forced to migrate right after their invasion. Europe, did did they do the responsible thing, Admiral Montgomery?
▶ 0:44:52I believe Europe did do the responsible thing in accepting the 6.5 million people. I think some were displaced inside Ukraine. The vast majority, as you said, almost 5 million went into Europe and Europe did the right thing bringing them in, housing them, and then supporting Ukraine along with the United States in opposing the illegal invasion. Right. And and what about the amount of children that's been estimated to be kidnapped from Ukraine and forced into Russia?
▶ 0:45:23Miss Brogan, what's the number you're using? I don't have that number right now, but I do have
▶ 0:45:32friends tell me 27,000, but they estimate it's really over Is is you think that's in the ballpark? Admiral? I do. I think the number I use routinely is 25,000, but I think it's probably 2 months old. And that's the known. I think what you're saying with 50,000 is the presumed with the children that are being moved out of occupied areas without any kind of overhead in there.
▶ 0:45:58some cases forcing these children to fight against their people in their own country? We are seeing that the older children, teenagers after being in Russian camps, are then manipulated into joining the Are there any programs that the State Department or Department of Homeland has worked with our our allies in Europe and Ukraine stymie these efforts by Russia and and
▶ 0:46:28I only see nonprofit work. You know, Speaker Johnson's wife, others have really led the effort to push back against the illegal identifying the children and trying to get the the Russian government acknowledge them and return them. But then doesn't this point to the the larger crisis that is that we must [clears throat] stop Putin and I mean, this was always about good versus evil.
▶ 0:46:58please tell me uh all three of you wish to comment. If we allow Putin to succeed in Ukraine, what do you see as the next likely occurrences to take place? I'll go first and I'll say, look, if he succeeds in Ukraine, I think Moldova is toast. And then and then the real concern for that would be a very that would be a short appetizer for him. And then he'll begin to look at a NATO treaty ally.
▶ 0:47:27And I worry about the Baltic states more than Poland. I worry about the Suwalki Gap to to Kaliningrad. And then and then he'll eventually at that point subsume Belarus into a broader Russia. So, from my point of view, we have to stop Putin in Ukraine if we're going to stabilize the Eastern European front against Russian authoritarianism. Would the other two witnesses care to Very good question.
▶ 0:47:55I if if Russia if if ends this war or if or if this war ends on basically on Putin's terms, this is going to be very negative for European security. And it's not just the Suwalki Gap, it's not just the Baltic states. It's the Black Sea, which is which is which is already tilting in in Russia's favor when you look at how much of that space now Let's make no mistake about it. This is an imperialistic Russia that has clear goals and aims. Is that not the case?
▶ 0:48:21It is it is the case. And while many people everybody wishes the war to end, it is the question is on what terms will it end? The the usual Western response is all ends of war are good.
▶ 0:48:36Yeah, before my time runs out, could you please care to comment? Just to quickly say that alongside we also have to think about defanging some of these tactics. And one of the ways to do that is that's very seriously in integration and in stable systems in destination countries. So, that again, we don't give hostile actors what they want, which is total chaos and destabilization. Correct. My time's expired, Mr.
▶ 0:49:06Chairman, but I think the critical point in this whole subcommittee hearing is to know your and to know their tactics. And in this case, it's quite clear between good versus evil. And what Putin's uh our enemy, and we know this is this mass migration weaponizing mass migration is one of their tactics. Correct? We all have agreement in that. Thank you very much. More to be continued.
▶ 0:49:36I now recognize the from Ohio, Mr. Davidson. Chairman Self, thank you for organizing this hearing today, and I'm encouraged by the bipartisan moral clarity on weaponized as long as it applies to Russia. I hope it becomes contagious because the Russians aren't the only body to weaponize migration. Um Europe's security and prosperity is in fact threatened by mass migration.
▶ 0:50:03The national security strategy released last November asserts that, quote, Europe's economic decline is eclipsed by the real and more stark prospect of civilization erasure, end quote. In addition to the activities of the EU and other transnational bodies that undermine political liberty and sovereignty, this includes migration policies that are transforming the continent and creating strife and loss of national identities and self-confidence.
▶ 0:50:31It goes on to say that if, quote, present trends continue, the continent will be unrecognizable in 20 This reminds me of Vice President Pence's speech at last year's Munich conference about the shared values of the United States and Europe, and how these values are increasingly eroding.
▶ 0:50:52Uh if Europe continues to be transformed by importing massive numbers of people who do not share Western values or even seek to assimilate into Western civilization, our relationship with Europe will be It's not just Russia and Belarus that are to blame for this mass migration, but as Mr. Boyes notes in his opening statement, the EU and its member states are also to blame. In fact, Russia just had to exploit a trend that was already well underway in the EU.
▶ 0:51:22As Mr. Boyes also noted, Brussels has used migration and asylum issues to discipline member states for not accepting large flows of migrants. In 2024, the European Court of Justice fined Hungary 200 million euros for violating EU asylum laws.
▶ 0:51:39By April of 2025, Hungary has been assessed over 500 million euros in penalties for not submitting to Brussels instead of their position that Hungary is first and foremost for Hungarians.
▶ 0:51:56Mass migration has destabilizing effects, and governments and voters in Europe are right to recognize that, and I'm glad our committee's recognizing it and as said, encouraged that we've got bipartisan recognition of those consequences as long as it applies to We're right to speak up about this issue because it deeply affects our European allies, and European politicians certainly do not hesitate to offer their opinions about migration here in the United States. So, Mr. Boyes, thank you for being here today.
▶ 0:52:25You suggested that the United States should strongly support those NATO member states that have taken robust steps to defend themselves against weaponized mass migration. What are some specific measures that you have in mind? Thank you, uh sir. Um So, um we need to have a more of a dialogue with uh with our European friends and allies on this issue.
▶ 0:52:49Um it's they consider it, of course, a domestic um but it and of course it is, but uh we we need to be um clear with them that it also does affect us. It affects them primarily, but it also does affect us. And we would like to see I think uh more robust measures on on on the part of our allies and friends because we want their societies to be strong. They're We we need them as allies. We want them as allies.
▶ 0:53:16They are vital to the to the to to our security, and they need to take these issues sometimes more seriously than they have. It's taken an awful long time, I'm afraid, for some of these um for the issues for some of the legislative and other changes to enter into into force. And some of them are still not entered into force. Some European member NATO member states have actually done quite a lot. Uh the Danes, for example, have been have been very solid on this. Uh Germany is doing more and more.
▶ 0:53:44Um and we've seen some statements lately from from uh Giorgia Meloni. And this we've seen similar steps on our on the part of our Central Europeans friends and allies. Some of whom have actually gotten a lot of credit a lot of criticism for being robust on their borders.
▶ 0:54:01And that was I thought always unfair because they are trying to simply preserve their the integrity of their borders, and we're not interested in large numbers of people who don't share their values, um and who in fact have very very very different ideas about how to organize society in in large numbers in their country. And and and and I'm afraid that that actually was was was was unfortunate on the part of Europeans.
▶ 0:54:24So, um the dialogue part is may even even require some blunt language, um because not always sometimes the polite approach doesn't always work. Yeah, that's correct. Thank you for that, and perhaps Congress can can apply some of those tools to to motivate the their attention to this matter, as someone has become fond of saying. Um but you know, Admiral, you know, the Navy you know, dominates the seas. The United States Navy will search our power all over the world. And I think a country is like Ireland.
▶ 0:54:54You know, where is Ireland has designated several African nations to be, quote, safe countries of origin, meaning asylum applicants from these countries receive accelerated application services. I you know, the whole point of credible asylum claims is that you've got a safe third country. And if I had a graphic here, I'd show the sea route from Africa to Ireland. How is Ireland a safe third country for an African nation?
▶ 0:55:22Well, that is a tough immigration route, and if you've seen the quality of the ships that that get you to across the Mediterranean, about the last thing I'd do is head to the Straits of Gibraltar. Uh so, as a maritime guy, I would say that's a tough route um in terms of how they determine what's uh you know, how they treat a migrant when they land there, that's a an you know, a piece for Irish law, and how we treat Ireland's immigrants to the United States should reflect that.
▶ 0:55:47Yeah, I hope that Ireland keeps Ireland for Irish people first, but as you say, it's their country, they're sovereign. Um but even when they do, they're up against a European Union that increasingly doesn't share our values, and as NATO has essentially become the European defense force, I'd like to see us uh emphasize that and make sure they do give attention to these matters. Thank you, Chairman. I yield back. Uh thank you. I now recognize the representative from California, Ms. Kim. Thank you, Chairman Self and Ranking Member Keating.
▶ 0:56:17Thank you for holding this hearing, and I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. Uh Mr. Montgomery and Mr. Boyes, in August 2021, the Lukashenka regime in Belarus deliberately funneled migrants to the borders of Poland, Lithuania, and Latvia in retaliation for EU sanctions, which is widely viewed as one of the clearest examples of weaponized migration in recent history.
▶ 0:56:46So, can you talk about how the Belarian Belarussian government operationalized migration flows in 2021, and how effective were the European Union and NATO responses at the time? So, that's a very good question, uh ma'am. Um the um the Belarussians were saw this They all They opened travel agencies.
▶ 0:57:10They opened They flew direct flights from um from a number of different countries uh it straight to and then transported their some of these these the the passengers to the border. They sometimes accommodated them. They provided them with wire cutters in some instances. Um this this just doesn't doesn't just happen.
▶ 0:57:33Um so, it's quite clear that this is was in in retaliation to the sanctions, as you said, uh to that the EU um imposed upon his regime after the flawed elections of of 2020. Uh it's however it's continuing, and as and as as um as Mark was talking about in terms of the you know, tunnels don't just get built underneath uh fences or walls um just sort of by you know, like that. They're obviously aided and abetted by the regime.
▶ 0:58:02And so, the the fingerprints of the regime are on on this on these flows of people in in very very direct and and obvious ways. And and this this should this should be much more widely known, in my view. I would only add, ma'am, that the in fact the Latvian government complained this morning about further uh Belarussian bad behavior, cutting holes in fences, building tunnels, bussing migrants to the boy recently arrived uh uh migrants to the border.
▶ 0:58:32They're clearly practicing weaponized migration. They're doing it at the behest of the puppet master, uh Putin in Russia. Um did the EU's legal, humanitarian, and asylum frameworks constrain its ability to respond quickly and decisively to uh Belarus actions? Either one of you.
▶ 0:58:55I I'll give the first I'll just say from from the military point of view, when you asked about NATO and the EU, I'd say the NATO did not constrain them, but what it did was it put pressure on NATO and reduced our readiness to do other things. Units were pulled from training exercises, redeployed against the the planning of the countries. So, this had a this had a significant and remains a significant impact on NATO readiness, despite these states being the ones that we like, the ones that spend 4.5% of their of their GDP on defense.
▶ 0:59:25You know, and I'm here talking here about Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia. They're also being required to spend money in responding to this. So, from that point of view, I think that they uh you know, they they've [clears throat] been hampered significantly by Belarusian activity. You know, how likely is it that Russia or other adversaries will replicate the Belarus play playbook against NATO's eastern or southern flanks in the future, possibly with Ukraine or North Africa? Mr.
▶ 0:59:54Boyce, do you want to the they have of course as you know have have weaponized it against Norway and Finland. Although the Norwegians and the Finns have been relatively successful now in sort of closing that down. I worry mostly about the southern flank.
▶ 1:00:08I worry about what's happening in the the Sahel and sub-Saharan Africa where very very large numbers of people are being basically propelled northward through destabilizing behavior was through through efforts by either the Wagner Group or it's been renamed in the meantime, but through various sort of Russian actors who are destabilizing these these areas and sending sending large I mean hundreds of thousands
▶ 1:00:38of people northward that are then caught in very very sort of through you know, with militia through Libya or other other channels who then have to make the end up making the dangerous journey across the Mediterranean and and and when they make it have have managed to get get north you know, get north so
▶ 1:00:59one more question here. So, sorry for stopping you, but the EU recently adopted a new pact on migration and asylum to share the responsibility for processing. From a policy standpoint, does this pact provide a flexibility for frontline states to respond to state sponsored surges or does it primarily address traditional migration flaws?
▶ 1:01:23I I think it's a step in the right direction, but I think a lot of these efforts are lowest common denominator because of the difficulty of reaching robust steps that are shared across the across the entire EU. And so, they're usually less than than would be desired even though they're improvements over what is over over the past.
▶ 1:01:50Chairman, I am running out of time, but I would like to submit for the record New York Times report titled how Biden warnings and lost Americans' faith in for the record. Without objection. Okay, thank you. I [clears throat] now recognize the representative from Florida, Mr. Fine. Well, thank thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity. I think this is a very important subject because it reveals an important truth about mass migration.
▶ 1:02:19It's a disruptor. If it was good, no one would mind. Our adversaries pay attention to who we let in and they watch what these visitors do when they get to our countries. Russia has seen mass Muslim migration into the West and they know what it's doing. It's causing chaos. That's why Russia's weaponizing Muslim immigration against the West because they know that it causes tensions among the native populations.
▶ 1:02:46They see what they're doing and the statistics are unbelievable. In France, 60% of the prison population. In the UK, it's 18% of the prison population, three times the percentage of the population. Sweden, 63% of convicted rapists have an immigrant background. Most of those are of Muslim In Switzerland, 33% of prisoners, they're 5% of the population.
▶ 1:03:14Um they're conquering rather than integrating and they're engaged in crime. So, when you're a native of that country, you're going to be outraged and we see backlash against their governments. I've I've got a few basic questions for the three of you. Does Russia believe that Islam is compatible in their own country? Do they want these people coming in to their own nation? Yes or no? You can miss miss I'm sorry, I can't pronounce your last name. You can start.
▶ 1:03:43I can't I can't speak to That's fine. You don't know. Mr. Boyce, do you does Russia want these people in their country? Russia has a lot of who are just who've been incorporated into the into the Soviet space and Russian Empire and Soviet space as well as well and continue to live there. I think that they have they they don't like the extremists. But they're not seeking this mass migration into their own country. Go somewhere.
▶ 1:04:15why why do you think then they're weaponizing it? Why do you think that they believe that it is an effective You can go ahead, Mr. Boyce. It's because it is an effective weapon.
▶ 1:04:24Mr. Boyce. It is an effective weapon. We've as we've discussed earlier, I think that they've used this and you can go back all the way as Mr. Boyce mentioned to the East Germans using weaponized migration in the in the 1980s. So, they've seen the impact of this, they've seen the effect of it. This is part of a broad campaign of undermining the societies of their adversaries in NATO and the European Union. So, they know it's effective, they've used it.
▶ 1:04:49It's one of five or six tools in their next in their new generation warfare campaign and we should be very concerned about it as we should be about critical infrastructure attacks, cyber attacks and the others. So, so Spain I'll stay with you, Mr. Montgomery. So, Spain has just announced that basically everyone who's come into their country, however they've gotten there, they're going to make citizens I guess and then let they give them papers and then they can then go wherever they want.
▶ 1:05:15Does that mean in effect that Spain is assisting with this with this migration as a strategy to to undermine our societies? what the migration in Spain was not a weaponized migration. The migration in Spain was a a fleeing migration. So, it's different, but in the These are choices Spain makes.
▶ 1:05:33If they want to you've you've given a pretty good discussion of why most European countries might now have some The Spanish We'll have to see what happens with Spain on this decision, but I would be careful I would We've been very careful in talking about what's weaponized migration. That's when Russians do this to undermine our allies and we need to counter that very directly. The broad migration from the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere is a different a different discussion and one for which each country can take their own path and the United States will certainly take its.
▶ 1:06:03So, there's there's two kinds of destabilizing migration. There's the weaponized where they're pushing these people in, but then there's they're just coming. And so so for example in France where you see that the French government felt the need to cancel New Year's celebrations because of the rise of mainstream Islam. Is that was that because of weaponized migration or is that because of the they're just coming and they're showing up? Well, from fresh reports I'd say that was a response to general migration, not weaponized migration.
▶ 1:06:32Okay. So, you know, I would conclude by saying this. We have a big enough problem with the non-weaponized migration. We need to be very cautious of of weaponized migration because my view is that Europe is largely fallen. When you have debates in Parliament in the UK about not allowing cousin marriage is a form of Islamophobia, we have fallen and we have forgotten who we are. So, this is an issue we need to deal with.
▶ 1:06:57I appreciate you all being here to deal with it and I appreciate the chairman for having the hearing on the subject today and I yield back. I now recognize the representative from Florida, Ms. Luna. Thank you, Chairman.
▶ 1:07:07minutes. Thank you and I hold the same sentiments of my colleague. Don't marry your cousin. I thank you, Chairman, for hosting this hearing today. Strong borders are the foundation for sovereign country. When you have uncontrolled migration, every system absorbs absorbs the damage. Schools, hospitals, policing, housing, budgets and the social fabric itself. Citizens watch their communities change overnight. They are told to accept it and they are scolded for noticing it and calling it out.
▶ 1:07:34These people are not racist nor are they far right as many people try to frame them. The truth is that unchecked mass migration has been weaponized. Ms. Bogdan, your testimony describes weaponized mass migration as a security risk and you argue the best strategy is to neutralize and and preparation rather than escalation. You also warned that the patchwork of go it along crisis measures should not become the norm.
▶ 1:07:58Would you agree yes or no that the member states of the European Union are also sovereign independent independent nations? Do you agree that an independent nation has the right to defend its borders and set up entry policy consistent with its own national interests? Yes, every country should set the conditions for who enters.
▶ 1:08:22So, I guess the question is why are we ignoring the facts that these are independent nations with the right to defend their borders and the fact that they've been completely let down by EU policy and in fact punished if they sought to address the problem in the view of their own national interests. That is completely absurd to me and the same people and these same people that advocate for exactly what I'm talking about are labeled as Nazis and racist for wanting stronger border policy and state Ms. Bogdan, do you believe that it's true that European citizens and politicians that advocate for strong borders are Nazis?
▶ 1:08:53Yes or no? I would not phrase it that way. So, you do not agree that if you want a strong border policy, you are a Nazi. I think all European societies want to defend their borders and protect their Admiral Montgomery, do you believe that if you want strong borders or state sovereignty that you are a Nazi? I don't believe advocating for strong borders or having safe a safe community makes you a Nazi.
▶ 1:09:24Admiral, you say that Russia uses information operations and weaponized migration as a part of hybrid warfare to destabilize NATO partners and fracture European Union unity. But I want to separate two things. Alleged Russian propaganda versus real-world crime and disorder that governments have refused to confront. You reference Russia fake stories about migrant crime in Germany to enrich populations, but isn't it true that if we really don't have to make up these stories, um, Mr. Chairman, I would actually like to submit several articles for the record if I can read them.
▶ 1:09:55As Germany welcomes migrants, sexual attacks in Cologne point to a new reality. This is the New York Times. I don't think the New York Times is Russian propaganda. We have World Germany New Year's Eve 2015 in Cologne, the night that traumatized thousands of women and shook We also have Freiburg gang rapists to spend years in prison. 10 of 11 men accused of gang rape of a woman in the southern city of Freiburg in 2018 have been sentenced to jail term.
▶ 1:10:22These case uh this the case was seized upon by anti-immigration populist as most men are refugees. I don't think that's made up. And court hands life sentence to Iraqi over teenage rape murder. So I guess Admiral, this one's for you. This isn't Russia propaganda. These are real-world examples of consequences of unchecked migration. Would you agree? Yeah, I agree there both things are That they are those are all true I'll stipulate those are all true stories.
▶ 1:10:52And I'll also stipulate that Russia creates information operations and intentionally tells lies on all sorts of issues including
▶ 1:11:00advocating for Russia. I'm just saying do you think that these are Russia propaganda? No, likely not. I mean I trust the most of
▶ 1:11:06New York Times is not issuing Russia propaganda. Um, nonetheless, weaponized migration succeeds when the dest when the destination system cannot say no. The answer is not accommodation but sovereignty enforcement and consequences. And without them sovereign states are set up to fail. Thank you guys for being here today. Thank you.
▶ 1:11:31Um, the ranking member and I have agreed we will do I think the two of us will do three minutes on a second round. I recognize myself for three minutes. as a military planner I I was taught to look forward. So let's take an example because I want to hear from you uh the the Baltics.
▶ 1:11:53We've heard the issues here, the Suwalki Gap, the Kaliningrad uh militarization, uh the fact that the three of them feel like they are out on the frontier, the eastern frontier by themselves because of their geographic position. What would you say to the United States, NATO and the EU to prepare them now for post-Ukraine hybrid war?
▶ 1:12:20Um, the first thing is I'd say we need to be present, you know, we NATO and and to the degree the United States is a you know, applies a certain percentage of forces to NATO, need to be present in the Baltic states. That serves as a natural deterrent. Second, we need to actually identify the war-fighting capabilities necessary.
▶ 1:12:36We need to make sure that 3.5% that all of NATO except of course Spain is is spending by 2035 is focused on the right war-fighting capabilities that counter Russia and aren't about some national need not associated with NATO.
▶ 1:12:51And then third, we need to make sure the 1.5% uh non-defense related spending is really spent on clear NATO critical infrastructure needs, not the the road we were going to pave, you know, from London to the north already. You know, that they'd spend on other things. If the if NATO does those they'll be in a in a position to deter and if necessary defeat Russia. But the Baltic states are our treaty allies as you know, sir.
▶ 1:13:19They give they give their all on every NATO exercise. They got to 4% faster than faster than us and they're going to get to 5% faster than any of our allies and partners except for Israel. Uh so they're true partners, they're true believers and we need to have the forces forward to ensure that Russia is Thank you and I yield back. I recognize the ranking member. Thank you, Admiral Montgomery.
▶ 1:13:44The people migrating from Russia and Belarus are not Russians and What countries specifically? I can think of two prominent ones, but what countries are they coming from? So I think it's Afghan it's Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Eritrea, Libya. I think those are the majority of the countries
▶ 1:14:05those countries? I mean, it's not a religious issue that what marks the people that are they're bringing here by planes and and bring bringing to Russia in the borders and bringing them over the border. What marks them? They're environmentally depressed countries. I mean economically depressed countries. And so I think a lot of this is a desire to leave a
▶ 1:14:25So it's not religion. No, this is not a religious issue. It's a economic and family well-being issue. And and those people coming over are desperate. They don't know where they're going probably. I they certainly don't know where they're going when they go to Belarus. You know, I I think they find out when they when there's Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, they find out when the bus pulls up at the border. And and uh it's just not divisiveness that Russia's trying to deal with with NATO countries from Europe.
▶ 1:14:56They also want to create division with European NATO countries in the US. Don't you believe with some of these actions? Oh, 100% this is about uh this is about undermining the trust and credibility in the alliance. This is why they work so hard on Hungary. It's why they work so closely with Turkey. That's why we had discussions before about the importance of cooperating and being on the same page the extent we can.
▶ 1:15:20We might have different ways of approaching this, but we should be supportive and cooperative with each So in those terms, I just like to just in my moments here uh with a quote from uh the first American Pope uh Pope Leo uh recently just said within the last 2 perhaps we should be a a little less fearful and look for ways to promote authentic dialogue and respect. I know that in practice this is not always been the case.
▶ 1:15:50I know that fears still persist in Europe. These fears are often fueled by people opposed to immigration who seek to exclude those who come from another another religion or another ethnic background. In light of this, he called for working together to make possible dialogue and including friendship between Muslims and Christians. I yield back.
▶ 1:16:18Uh thank you and I thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony. This has been a very valuable hearing and the members for their questions. The members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for the witnesses. We will ask you to respond to these in writing. Uh pursuant to committee rules, all members may have 5 days to submit statements, questions and extraneous materials for the record subject to the length limitations. Without objection, committee stands adjourned. Thank you.
▶ 1:16:49Thank you.