▶ 0:22:26Committee on Homeland Security will come to order. Without objection, the chair may declare the committee in recess at any point. Purpose of today's hearing is to conduct oversight of the Department of Homeland Security, and assess priorities for US immigration and Customs Enforcement, US Customs and Border Protection, and US Citizenship and Immigration Services for the calendar year 2026. Before we get started, I'd like to remind the members and the public of the rules of decorum. The issues we are debating are important ones that members feel deeply about.
▶ 0:22:56While vigorous disagreement is part of the legislative process, members are reminded that we must adhere to established standards of decor and debate. It is a violation of House rules and the rules of this committee to engage in personalities regarding other members or to question the motives of a colleague. It is also a clear violation of the rules of the house to make statements that might personally be offensive to the president or the vice president of the United States. Remarks of that type are not permitted by the rules and are not in keeping with the best traditions of our committee.
▶ 0:23:27The chair will enforce these rules of decorum at all times and urges all members to be mindful of their remarks. Further, under the rules of the house, the chairman is responsible for maintaining order and preserving decorum in the committee room. I expect audience members to be respectful of the witnesses, members, and the public. If members of the audience are personally persistently or overly disruptive, it is a violation of federal law and you'll be subject to removal and arrest.
▶ 0:23:53I now recognize myself for an opening I want to start by thanking our witnesses for appearing before the committee today. Today's hearing provides that the American people the ability to hear directly from the leaders that enforce our nation's immigration laws. It is our imperative as representatives of the people to be a voice for the people. Transparency, communication, and accountability are keys to good government. This is why oversight is important.
▶ 0:24:23Informing Congress and the public is not casting accusations, nor is it a punishment. Congress has a duty to hear directly from the executive branch, a duty I take seriously. And the executive branch has a duty to keep us informed.
▶ 0:24:38While this hearing was long planned, we sit here today in an inflection point, an opportunity to assess and reinforce the integrity of immigration enforcement and to strengthen public trust, an opportunity to emphasize and underscore the Department of Homeland Security's no fail mission as a whole. My top priority as chairman is and will always be protecting America while ensuring the safety of law enforcement.
▶ 0:25:04This is further important in the context of another potential shutdown of the department. Let me be clear, shutting down DHS makes America less safe and negatively impacts thousands of federal employees like those at TSA and SIS. The Department of Homeland Security is the nation's largest federal law enforcement agency. It is this committee's duty, regardless of administration, to conduct oversight.
▶ 0:25:29We need to examine how DHS components are enforcing the law and ensure they have the resources in place to do work safely, effectively, and Last year, we provided historic resources through reconciliation to strengthen public safety and support for the Trump administration's unprecedented efforts to secure the border. This was the single largest investment in the domestic homeland security mission. To succeed, we all need to work together seamlessly, and this committee is a partner in that effort.
▶ 0:26:00It is important to remember how we got here. For years, we witnessed a blanket refusal to enforce the law, wide open borders, catch and releaselease policies, and uncontrolled mass migration. These policies undermined the rule of law, and endangered all Americans. Enforcing immigration law is not optional. The Trump administration's record on border security is Nationwide border encounters last December decreased 91% compared to 2023.
▶ 0:26:28Apprehensions between ports of entry last December decreased 86% compared to 2024. And we ended last year with eight consecutive months of zero parole releases by border patrol. Further, thousands of criminal illegal aliens have been detained and deported. These actions make America safer and more secure. But the credibility of these successes is on the line. We must take the temperature down and look at the record of enforcement actions through rational eyes.
▶ 0:26:57We've seen a significant increase in violent rhetoric and We have seen a significant increase in attacks on federal law enforcement and the number of threats facing them and their families. This committee highlighted the threat increases to law enforcement at an earlier he hearing. We have seen state and local jurisdictions refuse to protect federal law enforcement officers and obviously we have now seen the deaths of two American citizens in Minnesota. This is all unacceptable and preventable.
▶ 0:27:26The safety of law enforcement and the communities they serve and protect must al always come first. When officials or elected leaders rush to conclusions about law enforcement or their fellow Americans, public trust suffers. There must be complete and impartial I expect each of our witnesses to keep this committee fully informed as the investigations run their course and I will ensure this happens.
▶ 0:27:53While these investigations are ongoing, officials and elected leaders cannot rush to judgment. I cannot put myself in the shoes of law enforcement, nor can I imagine what the families of Miss Good, Mr. Prey are enduring today. Public trust and public safety go hand in hand. We cannot have one without the I am encouraged to see that President Trump sent Border Zar Tom Hman and Commissioner Scott to Minnesota to work with Governor Waltz, Mayor Frey, and other local leaders. I sincerely hope this dialogue continues.
▶ 0:28:22This should stand as an example of cooperation to who to anyone who continues to incentivize reckless behavior in our streets and lawfully impede law enforcement operations or disparage their fellow citizens. State and local officials should be partners, not obstacles when it comes to public safety. And federal officials should keep in mind that this kind of partnership is a two-way street. Everyone should have the same goal of keeping America safe. Transparency and communication are needed now more than ever.
▶ 0:28:52The department's no fail mission hangs in the balance. A rule-based order is not one-sided. Enforcing immigration law and defending all Americans constitutional rights, including the rights to peacefully protest, bear arms, and privacy are not mutually exclusive. I want to thank Secretary Gnome for making these witnesses rapidly rapidly available and again again thank the three of you for being here today. As borders are homeman recently said, you can't fix problems if you don't have discussions.
▶ 0:29:22I hope we can have a positive, civil, and productive discussion today. Only together can we make our community stronger and the homeland safer for future of all Americans. I now recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Thompson, for his opening statement.
▶ 0:29:39Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Uh good morning to all of you who are here. Uh thank you for calling this hearing today. This important hearing has drawn a great deal of interest and attention and many of my colleagues who represent the border city of El Paso and who have been leader on border security uh Veronica Escobar has joined us today and would like to ask questions of our witnesses. So, Mr.
▶ 0:30:08Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the gentle woman from Texas, Miss Escobar, be permitted to sit with the committee and question today's witnesses as we have afforded that to other individuals in past
▶ 0:30:24Uh well, I thank the gentleoman for their interest in today's important hearing. As I previously informed both, the majority and minority committee will not be entertaining off committee member requests. Uh therefore, I object. Well, and I your objection is noted, Mr.
▶ 0:30:40Chairman, but I would for the record want to say that uh it's highly unusual that uh a member of Congress sitting uh with as much impact on um immigration as her area is not afforded that courtesy. Uh but you're the chairman and uh that's your prerogative as if it would be anyone else's.
▶ 0:31:09As the ranking member knows, we had many requests. This is a very important hearing. Uh it is my duty to keep the wheels on this hearing and get actual answers on the record. I thank the gentle lady's uh interest. Uh we had a lot of members who were interested in being here today. uh which is why we thought it would be best just to keep it for members of the committee.
▶ 0:31:34Uh I'm these gentlemen have repeatedly testified uh before many committees uh at the capital and uh I'm sure other members will get the opportunity to do the same questioning. Uh this is committee on homeland security. Uh we had previously said we would not wave on members specifically for this hearing and uh we're going to stick by that rule Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:31:58Uh, may I say to uh, Miss Escobar, if there are questions uh, you would like to have asked of these witnesses, if you will provide those questions uh, to to me or any other member of the committee, we'll be more than happy to transmit them. Thank you so much.
▶ 0:32:22I hope my Republican colleagues will remember that our job is to conduct oversight, not cover for Donald Trump and his out of control administration, which is running roughshot over Americans rights, killing US citizens and threatening our very democracy. The disease rotting the Trump administration from the inside out started at the top and has infected every part of the executive branch.
▶ 0:32:50Nowhere is that more evident than at the Department of Homeland Security. This hearing is just the start of a reckoning for the Trump administration and its weaponization of DHS against American citizens and the principle our country stands for. DHS led by Secretary Christy Nome must be held accountable for its lawlessness immigration operation.
▶ 0:33:16They are reckless, creating chaos in our communities, terrorizing adults and children alike, and undermining our moral authority as a nation of liberty and rule of law. Last month, an ICE agent shot and killed Renee Good, a Minneapolis mom, in cold blood as she drove away away from him. After killing her, the agent called her a disgusting name. I won't repeat here.
▶ 0:33:46Other agents refused to allow a nearby physician to treat her. Democrats called for Instead, Secretary Gnome blamed the victim, Miss Good, and attempted to gaslight Americans with false claims that Miss Good was a domestic terrorist. Renee Good was nothing of the sort.
▶ 0:34:11She was a mom, a wife, a neighbor, and an American citizen who did not deserve deserve to die at the hands of her own government. She should be alive today. Ever since the Trump administration has devoted the full resources of the federal government to blocking a legitimate investigation into Miss Good's killing. If that isn't a sign of guilt, I don't know what is.
▶ 0:34:39Fellow prosecutors had a warrant to collect evidence from Miss Good's vehicle for a civil rights investigation into ISIS use of force, but FBI director Cash Fatel and other Trump administration officials demanded they drop it. Korea prosecutors duly bound to the rule of law, not the political prerogatives of the White House, resigned in protest.
▶ 0:35:06Blocking an investigation into the government's use of force against one of its own citizen is a self dictatorship, not democracies. Every American should be outraged. Democrats tried to get answers in the aftermath of Miss Good's shooting. We called on acting director Todd Lions to testify at the committee's hearing three weeks ago. Unfortunately, he turned down the committee's invest invitation.
▶ 0:35:38This is part of a pattern of the Trump administration's refusal to comply with regular congressional oversight. Committee Democrats have sent multiple letters to ICE and CBP on critical issues, but most of them 10 have gone unanswered. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to include all 10 of these records uh into the record, letters into the record. without
▶ 0:36:09ICE has blocked members of Congress from visiting its detention facilities, even after reports of horrific conditions, detainee abuse, and a detainee being murdered in a DHS facility.
▶ 0:36:25I was one of those individuals uh who parted to a lawsuit to try to get ICE to just follow the law that says members of Congress uh can visit ICE facilities and present themselves at at any time. So, uh, I understand that, uh, it's still being litigated, but I've been given authority to go, and I plan to do it this week just to test I's, uh, adherence to the law. Mr.
▶ 0:36:55Lions is here today, nearly a month after we invited him. I [snorts] guess DHS needed time to get his story straight before he came to testify under oath. Fearing more violence from federal law enforcement, Democrats have also called on DHS to ring in immigration agents and their brutal attacks on Americans immediately following Miss Good's murder. But DHS ignored our pleas.
▶ 0:37:24Instead, Greg Veno, who styled himself in Nazi attire and takes joy in deploying tear gas at Americans, continued to roam around Minneapolis with his mass gang, terrorizing people and violating their constitutional rights. And tragically, our worst fears were realized. Just days after the hearing, Mr.
▶ 0:37:50Lions refused to participate in CBP personnel shot Alex Piti and he was faced down on Minneapolis's sidewalk, killing him in broad daylight. In the video of the incident, a DHS agent can be seen cheering Mr. Py's death. Americans watched the video in horror.
▶ 0:38:17Yet once again, Secretary Gnome gas lit the public, made up a demonstrabably false story about Mr. Py, and blamed the victim for his own death. Mr. Priy was a law-abiding US citizen and a VA nurse who dedicated his career to caring for our veterans. Mr.
▶ 0:38:40Chairman, at our last month hearing, I ask for a moment of silence in the memory of Renee Good. Today, with great sadness about another American killed at the hands of DHS, I ask that the committee observe a moment of silence in honor of Alex Py.
▶ 0:39:11Thank you. The slaying of Miss Good and Mr. Py by DHS are the most tragic examples of what is wrong with Trump's DHS, but far from the only ones. Last fall, a Border Patrol agent shot Miar Martinez, a US citizen and preschool teacher from Chicago, five times.
▶ 0:39:34The agent bragged in text messages about shooting her, saying, quote, "I fired five rounds and she had seven holes." But that in your book, boys. Again, the Trump administration tried to blame Miss Martinez, the victim, but prosecutors dropped charges against her when it became apparent that the evidence contradicted the Border Patrol's phony account. Unlike Miss Goods and Mr.
▶ 0:40:04Pes, we can no longer tell their stories. Miss Martinez has shared her story about what Trump's DHS did to her. I want to play a bit of the video here because people need to see what ICE and CBP are doing to Americans.
▶ 0:40:28So, this is the first one I realized. I was like, "Oh, it's just a pepper palette." But no. And then I got shot right here. And then I have a wound on the side of my chest right here. And then
▶ 0:40:46I got two holes in my thigh and then right here.
▶ 0:40:51Wow. Right here.
▶ 0:40:52Wow. You're You're covered in wounds.
▶ 0:40:55Wounds. Yeah. And I want people to see like what's going on, like the type of stuff they're doing. What happened to Miss Martinez, Miss Good, and Miss Mr. Py is a scourge on this country and shameful chapter in our nation's history. But tragically, there's more.
▶ 0:41:19DHS agents recently used a five-year-old Ecuadorian boy, Leayman Ramos, as bait to lure his family members outside their home to arrest them. The family has in had entered the country legally as asylum seekers and were living in Minnesota while awaiting their immigration proceedings. DHS sent the little boy and his father to detention in Texas for over a week.
▶ 0:41:48Thankfully, a judge ordered him released, slamming DHS for its, and I quote, incompetently implemented deportation implemented deportation campaign is putting it nicely, especially as it relates to small children.
▶ 0:42:10more apt in the Bible quote from John 11th chapter 35th referenced at the end of the judge's opinion Jesus wept DHS personnel are now forcing their way into private homes without a judicial warrant in violation of the fourth amendment in one recent incident ICE dragged a US citizen from his home at gunpoint in underwear before realizing they had picked
▶ 0:42:40up the wrong person. The person ICE was actually looking for was sitting in jail in Minnesota. The Minnesota Department of Corrections says that ICE had this information all along.
▶ 0:42:57Bystander videos from Minneapolis and cities around the country show ICE and CBP personnel having behaving like unprofessional goons cursing at bystanders and mooning people from their hotel rooms. News reports have a border patrol agent was found passed out, drunk, and covered in vomit in a vehicle.
▶ 0:43:23And ICE personnel apparently stole a child's phone and sold it for cash. It's an embarrassment. And DHS's so-called leadership should be ashamed. If only they had any shame. Secretary's known Department of Homeland Security has the blood of American citizens on its hand, but she takes no responsibility for anything.
▶ 0:43:48To the contrary, Secretary Gnome was last seen in this committee room hiding behind her family in a desperate attempt to distract distract from her department's failures and abuses. Then she ran from our questions, leaving early under the guise of needing to attend a meeting that it turns out didn't even exist. Her inexcusable behavior should come as no surprise.
▶ 0:44:16She all she's always been more concerned with photo ops and wardrobe changes than following the law and fulfilling the mission of her department. Since being sworn in, Secretary Gnome has enriched herself, abused the power of her office, obstructed congressional oversight, and violated her oath to the Constitution.
▶ 0:44:41Donald Trump and Christy Nome are doing real damage to this country and to the department that was stood up 25 years ago in the wake of 911 to protect American citizens from future attacks.
▶ 0:44:56Secretary Gnome is a liar with no concern for the lives of Americans killed by the department she runs. She must go. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentlemen yields back. [clears throat] Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. I would now like to formally introduce our witnesses. [clears throat] First is Mr. Rodney Scott. Mr. Scott is commissioner of US Customs and Border Protection.
▶ 0:45:23After decades of service at CBP, including a stint as chief border patrol, he has served as a Senate confirmed commissioner since June of Second is Mr. Joseph Edllo. Mr. Edllo is director of citizenship and immigration services. Director Edllo has served in numerous legal roles across executive branch in Congress, including chief counsel to USCIS. Mr. Edllo has served as a Senate confirmation, Senate confirmed director since July 2025. Third is Mr. Todd Lions. Mr.
▶ 0:45:52Lions is the acting director of immigration and custom [clears throat] enforcement. Acting director Lions began his federal service in the US Air Force in 1993 and joined ICE as an agent in 2007. Mr. Lions moved up the ranks and has served as acting director since March of 2025. Thank all the witness witnesses for being here today. Pursuant to committee rule 8C, I ask that the witnesses please rise and raise their right hand.
▶ 0:46:21Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the Committee on Homeland Security of the United States House of Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So, help you God. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered the affirmative. Thank you, and please be seated. I now recognize Commissioner Scott for five minutes to summarize his opening Chairman Carverino, Ranking Member Thompson, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear here before you today.
▶ 0:46:51I'm honored to represent more than 67,000 dedicated men and women of US Customs and Border Protection who are tirelessly protecting this great nation every single day by simply trying to make sure we know who and what is entering our homeland. Border security is national security. Law enforcement personnel that selflessly provide this service to America increasingly perform under difficult conditions and intense public and political scrutiny. But these brave men and women deserve our gratitude and thanks.
▶ 0:47:21It's my privilege to be here today joining my colleagues from Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Citizenship and Immigration Services. Our agencies work in partnership to secure the homeland and uphold the integrity of our immigration system. CBP has spent the last year rebuilding what was an intentionally broken border. As I informed Congress in 2021 and again in 2023, the open border policies of the Biden administration all but eliminated any meaningful border along this any meaningful border.
▶ 0:47:52and it replaced it with a poorest geographic line defined by record high encounters with illegal aliens, overwhelmed facilities, and a workforce that was stretched so far beyond their capabilities that hostile nations and the cartels exploited our border at will. That all changed on January 20th, 2025 under the leadership of President Trump.
▶ 0:48:14We have now implemented effective policies, established unified priorities and objectives across all federal departments, and empowered our workforce to do their jobs by simply enforcing the laws that already exist. We have imposed consequences for those who break our laws, the laws that this body enacted. And today, the United States, because of these efforts, enjoys the most secure border in our nation's history. But this progress did not happen by accident. It's a result of a comprehensive approach to border security. We ended catch and release.
▶ 0:48:44We prioritized detention and removal authorities. And we sent a clear message that illegal entry into the United States will not be tolerated. And the numbers speak for themselves. We have achieved record low illegal crossings between ports of entry. Border Patrol apprehensions along the southwest border totaled over 90,000 for the entire year. That's a number that used to represent a single month under the Biden administration.
▶ 0:49:08Daily encounters have dropped by 95% averaging about 250 per day compared to 5,000 a day during the Biden administration. Our increased enforcement also resulted in the seizure of over 617,000 pounds of illicit narcotics. That's nationwide, an 8% increase over the prior year. This included nearly 11,000 pounds of fentanyl and more than 186,000 pounds of This is what having a secure border looks like.
▶ 0:49:39None of this would have been possible though without the vision and leadership of President Trump and the historic investments made in border security. The one big beautiful bill, a $65 billion investment, is enabling CBP to modernize border infrastructure, deploy additional advanced technology, and to grow our workforce. Since January 2025, CBP is building smartwall at record levels. We're installing high-tech attributes where the Biden administration had shut it off.
▶ 0:50:05We're installing water barriers on the along the Rio Grand River, which denies criminals access to these routes. But that is not all. We're investing in technology at our ports of entry, non-intrusive inspection equipment, biometrics, and advanced surveillance to improve our ability to know what's coming into this country, the land, air, and sea, at and between the ports of entry. CBP's workforce is without a doubt the greatest asset that we have.
▶ 0:50:31The one big beautiful bill is investing historic amounts of money in recruitment, hiring, and retention and training to ensure that we have the most highly qualified and capable law enforcement professionals securing our border. Due to the collaboration across all federal departments, the resultant reckoned low encounters, CBP has been able to surge resources to support ISIS targeted enforcement operations across the nation.
▶ 0:50:55CBP has integrated with ICE and other partners to identify and remove dangerous criminals and others who remain in the country illegally. As recent events have demonstrated though, our officers and agents are increasingly facing an unprecedented level of aggressive interference and intimidation when executing the laws that you have asked them to enforce. These attacks on federal law enforcement personnel are coordinated and well funded. This is not peaceful protest.
▶ 0:51:21No law enforcement officer should be put at personal risk simply for doing the job that we have asked them to do. I thank you for your continued support of CBP's mission and I look forward to answering your questions
▶ 0:51:33Thank you, Commissioner. I now recognize Director Edllo for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.
▶ 0:51:39Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Garbarino, Ranking Member Thompson, and members of the committee. It is an honor to speak to you about the priorities and progress of US citizenship and immigration services. I'm grateful for your partnership as we work together to uphold the rule of law, protect our citizens, and safeguard our homeland. Let me begin by expressing my appreciation to President Trump for his trust in me, and to Secretary Gnome for her leadership at the Department of Homeland Security.
▶ 0:52:06I'm proud to serve alongside a workforce that's deeply committed to advancing the president's agenda, protecting our communities, and restoring integrity to America's legal immigration system. As director of US Citizenship and Immigration Services, my vision has been straightforward and clear. Restore accountability to our immigration system and ensure that it serves the interests of the American people first and foremost. Today, I want to highlight some of our most significant accomplishments.
▶ 0:52:33ending the exploitation of immigration programs, putting American workers first, protecting our communities from public safety threats, protecting national security, and combating immigration Fraud isn't just a paperwork issue. It's a national security and public safety concern. Often, those who wish to do us harm exploit weaknesses in our system.
▶ 0:52:55Over the past year, USCIS has made nearly 33,000 fraud referrals to law enforcement, a 138% increase over previous years. We conducted thousands of site visits to homes and workplaces and thousands of social media checks to ensure aliens aren't espousing anti-American sentiment. Moreover, our fraud detection and national security team completed over 21,000 investigations identifying fraud in approximately 65% of those cases.
▶ 0:53:25In Operation Twin Shield in Minneapolis St. Paul back in the fall, we uncovered marriage fraud, visa misuse, and student visa abuses leading to denials of immigration benefits, arrests, and removal proceedings. This work led to Operation Paris, where we continue re-examining thousands of refugee cases in Minnesota, conducting thorough background checks and in-person reviews. We've also strengthened our vetting policies.
▶ 0:53:52If someone falsely claims US citizen citizenship to get a public benefit or try to vote, we hold them accountable through denial of citizenship or a loss of immigration status. We've tightened screening to determine whether claimed marriages and family relationships are legitimate. And we've changed regulations to employee authorization to excuse me to employment authorization is no longer automatically extended.
▶ 0:54:15Now we require more frequent renewals so that we can vet aliens more frequently and ensure that they deserve to remain in the country. Additionally, we've taken action to end the exploitation of immigration programs. Mass humanitarian parole programs were being abused by the prior administration. So, we've restored them to Congress's original intent, allowing those benefits on a case-bycase basis.
▶ 0:54:39Secretary Nome also ended decades of temporary protected status for several countries, returning the program to what Congress intended, temporary protection, not permanent status in the United States. Moreover, this administration is doing more to ensure the integrity of our elections. We enhanced the SAVE program so states can verify citizenship of those on their voter roles more effectively. Since January 2025, we've processed over 58 million queries and 27 states are participating.
▶ 0:55:10Additionally, federal agencies ran nearly 206 million save queries last year to identify fraud and preserve public assistance benefits for lawful US residents and citizens. We've also we're also putting American taxpayers and communities and workers first. We affirmed that aliens should be self-reliant, not dependent on public assistance, and that their sponsors are liable for the cost of public benefits that they access.
▶ 0:55:36The Department of Homeland Security is also working to resend the 2022 public charge rule, restoring our discretion to determine if an alien will rely on government assistance. We've pro we've proposed protecting American jobs by prioritizing H-1B visas for higherkilled, higher paid workers so that companies can't use those v visas merely as a way to get cheaper non-citizen labor. We've also streamlined agricultural visa processing to better support American farmers.
▶ 0:56:06A major milestone was implementing the one big beautiful bill which added new fees for certain immigration processes. USCIS collects those fees but only retains a small amount of the of the money while the rest goes to other agencies and deficit reduction. Finally, protecting the American people is at the heart of everything we do.
▶ 0:56:24After the attack on two brave service members of the National Guard last November, Secretary Gnome directed us to review immigration benefits for aliens from high-risisk In closing, US Citizenship and Immigration Services is restoring integrity, accountability, and security to America's legal immigration system.
▶ 0:56:44These accomplishments reflect the dedication of our workforce and the transformative leadership of President Trump and Secretary Gnome, both of whom have allowed USCIS to do the job it was created by Congress to do. We stand ready to continue working with Congress to protect the homeland and uphold the rule of law. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Director Edllo. I now recognize acting director Lions for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.
▶ 0:57:09Good morning, Chairman Gabino, Rank Member Thompson, distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to discuss the critical work US Immigration and Customs is doing every day to carry out President Trump's agenda to keep America safe, restore order to our communities, and return law return the rule of law to this country. Under the leadership of President Trump and DHS Secretary Chrissy Gnome, the men and women of ICE have been empowered to do exactly what they're trying to do.
▶ 0:57:37Arrest and remove illegal aliens and criminals from our communities. We are enhancing public safety, securing our national security, and finally restoring integrity to the immigration system that have been allowed to collapse. We have supercharged our partnerships with state and local law enforcement, empowering officers around the country through the 287G program to help ICE, identify, and remove criminal aliens. Those partnerships have increased more than 900% since President Trump took office, and our communities are safer for it.
▶ 0:58:07I am also proud of our AY's unprecedented hiring campaign that led to hiring of more than 12,000 officers and special agents in less than a year. and more than 222,000 individuals submitted applications. This expansion of our well-trained and well- vetted workforce will help further ICE's abilities to execute President's and Secretaries bold agenda. Before discussing our our broader operations, I must address the situation in Minnesota and the dangers that ICE agents and officers face nationwide.
▶ 0:58:38While the investigations remain ongoing, I'm encouraged that some Minnesota officials are finally signaling the willingness to cooperate with ICE. But let me be clear, promises are not enough. We need action. In the wake of the unprecedented border crisis of the previous administration, ISIS stepped into the breach to enforce the law. This commitment has a cost. We are facing the deadliest operating environment in our agency's history. In fiscal year 2025, death threats against ICE personnel increased more than 8,000%.
▶ 0:59:08Assaults on officers have skyrocketed over 1400%. One officer in Minnesota had his finger bitten off by a protester, egged on by elected officials characterizing our officers as Gestapo of secret police. The families of personnel, ICE personnel, have been made to feel unsafe in their homes. I know this first firsthand because my own family was targeted. But let me send a message to anyone who thinks they can intimidate us.
▶ 0:59:33You will Despite these perils, our officers continue to escape their mission with unwavering resolve. And we are only getting started. ICE remains committed to the fundamental principles that those who illegally enter our country must be held accountable. Since the beginning of the second Trump administration, we have achieved historic results. From January 20th, 2025 through January 28, 2026, ISIS conducted nearly 379,000 arrests.
▶ 1:00:01Among those arrests were more than 7,000 suspected gang members and over 1,400 known or suspected terrorists. The president tasked us with mass deportation and we are fulfilling that mandate. Thanks to the resources provided by this Congress, we are ramping up detention capacibilities and removal flights daily. In the last year alone, we conducted over 475,000 removals. It's a brutal reality that criminal immigration today is organized by sophisticated, ruthless, transnational criminal organizations.
▶ 1:00:31These includes cartels and transnational gangs President Trump has rightly designated at forest foreign terrorist organizations. The only way to defeat them is to destroy their revenue. Within Homeland Security investigations, our special agents are delivering critical outcomes in the fight against transnational crime. We are seizing fentanyl before it kills our children and dismantling the networks that poison our communities.
▶ 1:00:54In FY25 alone, we seized more than 2.5 million pounds of narcotics, a 50% increase from the previous year and a critical blow to transnational organization groups everywhere. HSI criminal arrests are at the highest point in history. However, our approach is just not about enforcement. is about restoring order and dignity to the human beings sold alive by smugglers and exploited by these TCOs.
▶ 1:01:18In August 2024, the DHS Office of Inspector General released a report that concluded that more than 291,000 unaccompanied alien children out of nearly 450,000 transferred from DHS to HHS custody were simply lost by the system. We are talking about children exploited in factories, abused in sexual trades, and living as indentured servants on American solar. HSI is leading the charge to find them.
▶ 1:01:47We have conducted more than 71,000 field engagements to locate children, verify sponsored legitimacy, and uncover criminal activity related to Since February 2025, ICE has arrested more than 500 criminal sponsors of these offenses, including sexual exploitation and forced labor, dismantled more than 2,400 human smuggling operations, and along with our federal partners, located more than 145,000 children.
▶ 1:02:15To further ensure TCOs can never threat our nation again, President Trump dedicated the establishment of the Homeland Security Task Force. The homeland security task forces represent the most aggressive and coordinated attack on TCOs in history. Through course cross crossber financial crime center we have developed and inflated a strategy to combat rampid fraud including government programs in Minnesota and across the country.
▶ 1:02:38Using this strategy HSI has opened numerous criminal investigations into the complex fraud systems that have resulted in the thefts of billions. Much of the fight ICE faces continually be fueled by so-called sanctuary cities.
▶ 1:02:53These juris jurisdictions provided a shield for criminal aliens when a local jail refuses to honor ICE attainer and releases that predator back into the ICE exists to enfor enforce America's long-standing immigration and custom laws. These laws are grounded in common sense, national sovereignty, and simple morality. Our officers and agent enforce these without hesitation, without apology. I ask that all the members of the committee treat them with profound respect that they have earned. Thank
▶ 1:03:24Thank you, acting director Lions. Member members will be recognized by order of seniority for their five minutes of questioning as we have the when Secretary Gnome was here. Uh we're going to limit it to five uh the five minute rule. I'm going to be strict on that for both sides. So do not be surprised if you go over I gather you down.
▶ 1:03:43I now recognize myself for five minutes of Acting Director Lions, I understand that you cannot discuss the details of the two recent shootings in Minnesota because they are subject of several investigations, including by the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and the DOJ Civil Rights Division. Once concluded, will you commit to providing the reports and findings of each investigation to this committee?
▶ 1:04:10Yes, Mr. Chairman, we're fully committed to give you the full and unabridged investigation. The outcome.
▶ 1:04:14Thank you, Commissioner Scott. Can the committee have the same commitment from
▶ 1:04:18Yes, sir.
▶ 1:04:18Thank you both.
▶ 1:04:21Commissioner Scott and Acting Director Lions, following this hearing in writing, I'd like to know what is the standard oper operating procedure for each of your agencies for an investigation when deadly force is used. Currently, uh, acting director Lions, are those procedures being followed for the two uses of deadly force in Minneapolis this past January?
▶ 1:04:42Yes, Mr. Jim.
▶ 1:04:45Were those and Mr. Commissioner Scott?
▶ 1:04:48Yes, sir. They are.
▶ 1:04:49Were the standard procedures followed from the beginning, Mr. Lions?
▶ 1:04:53Yes, sir, they were.
▶ 1:04:54Mr. Scott,
▶ 1:04:54yes, for CBP, they were as well.
▶ 1:04:57Thank you very much. We're obviously concerned about officer safety and have seen and heard about increasing threats and assaults against law enforcement. Director Lions, are your officers trained regarding the difference between a protected protest and what is unlawfully impeding law
▶ 1:05:19Yes, sir. Deportation officers and special agents are taught at the federal uh law enforcement training center. They are taught in defensive tactics, personal safety, but as well as, you know, laws to include first, second, fourth, fifth, 10th, 14th amendment. The officers are trained before they go out into the field and then while they're in the field, they are specialized training with disturbance control and other special tactics.
▶ 1:05:42Commissioner Scott, are your officers similarly trained?
▶ 1:05:45Yes, they are. at Flexie ongoing training in the field and then anytime we're deploying them to the interior they get updated law law refresher training to include first amendment and fourth amendment. So, I want to I want to focus on the training here because uh with the historic investment in both ICE and CBP, there was a surge in hiring.
▶ 1:06:05Uh for I need to know for these new hires, is the training different than what uh other agents and officers received before the hiring surge. Uh Mr. Lions, I'll let you you start there.
▶ 1:06:18No sir, it's not. The training was never the meat of the training was never removed. The timeline was we took training from five days a week, eight hours a day to six days a week, 12 hours a day. In addition to that, be training is different in the fact that before officers even go to the federal law enforcement training academy, there's pre-employment training, which we never had before.
▶ 1:06:39And on top of that, we've adapted our on the job training program, which is much like a city or state uh field training officer program that once they re re are removed from uh the federal law enforcement training academy have graduated before they return to their field offices, they're assigned a field training officer and that's continued on after that.
▶ 1:06:56So, let me get this for ICE officers. The curriculum has stayed the same, but the it's it's now a quicker training. The timeline has moved up.
▶ 1:07:05That's correct, sir.
▶ 1:07:06Okay. But the curriculum is the same. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:07:09All right. Um, Commissioner Scott, can you talk about u if there's been a change in training since uh the hiring
▶ 1:07:17There's been no change in the training within Customs and Border Protection. Border Patrol agents go through 117-day academy. The CBP officers go through 103day academy. That's actually training days. There's been no changes to that. So, the the only change that has been made is in our quarterly training. We've added scenarios based on what we most likely think they will will encounter in the field. So we've encountered some of we've actually added some of the protest type encounters as well.
▶ 1:07:42So there's been no change in the timeline either. Similar ICE did that. You did not.
▶ 1:07:47No, we did not.
▶ 1:07:48Okay. Um and while this is nothing while because I'm this is my last question I'm sure. While understanding there are not suitable for everyations every occasion, there's been a lot of talk about the use of of deadly force. Uh, are agents and officers equipped with and trained in the use of tasers or other less lethal alternatives to avoid the use of uh deadly force? And Mr. Director Lines, I'll start with you and then Mr. Scott, you can finish.
▶ 1:08:15Yes, sir. Every deportation officer, special agent are training secondary secondary weapons which include the taser, OC spray, and baton.
▶ 1:08:23They're trained.
▶ 1:08:24Those are made available
▶ 1:08:25and they're equipped.
▶ 1:08:26Yes, sir.
▶ 1:08:27Mr. Scott,
▶ 1:08:28it's a similar answer that all of our agents have to carry a secondary weapon. They trained at the academy and then they go through quarterly refresher training every 3 months.
▶ 1:08:38Okay. I appreciate I I will have I'm sure some follow-up questions today. Um and I will submit those uh to you in writing. Uh but with that, I yield back and I now recognize the ranking member for five minutes of questions.
▶ 1:08:50Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. lines. How many ICE agents have cameras as of today?
▶ 1:08:59Sir, as of today, more than 3,000 ICE officers have cameras that are active in the field with another 6,000 being deployed, sir.
▶ 1:09:08So, how many in the field? How many ICE agents are in the field as of today?
▶ 1:09:14Oh, I'm sorry, sir. Agents in the field
▶ 1:09:17You You said agents in the field. I'm just trying to get the number of ICE agents who have cameras on their body as of today.
▶ 1:09:26Approximately 3,000, sir.
▶ 1:09:273,000 out of how many?
▶ 1:09:30Out of 13 approximately 13,000, sir, that are in the field.
▶ 1:09:34So, you have 3,000 out of 13,000 who have cameras?
▶ 1:09:38Yes, sir.
▶ 1:09:38Mr. Scott, [clears throat]
▶ 1:09:40I don't have the actual number in front of me right now. It's about 10,000. We're building that program out as we 10,000 out of how many?
▶ 1:09:50Out of about 67,000. But the catch there is the ports of entry. We have significant video.
▶ 1:09:56No, I don't want to go to ports. I just want to know how many cameras right now do you have on your agents.
▶ 1:10:05When you say agents, border patrol agents, there's about 10,000.
▶ 1:10:0910,000 out 10,000 out of how many?
▶ 1:10:12Out of 20,000 Border Patrol agents. So half of them
▶ 1:10:16approximately. Yes.
▶ 1:10:17So I'll give you a chance to look at that since you said approximately and get back to the committee on what's the accurate number, not how many you're purchasing, how many as of this day.
▶ 1:10:28Understood. And I will get you that
▶ 1:10:30Thank you. Uh Mr. Lions, what's the regular timetable of training an ICE agent? Right now, sir,
▶ 1:10:43sorry about that, sir. Right now, the training is approximately 47 days at at the Federal Law Enforcement Academy. Overall training is about three months,
▶ 1:10:52So, you went from 3 months to 47 days.
▶ 1:10:56No, no, sir. The whole total training to include the pre-employment training and then the OJT program is three months and 47 days in the law enforcement federal law enforcement training academy. So they go to flexi for 47 days or for three months?
▶ 1:11:13No sir, you asked for the the total training time. The total training time now is a combined 3 months or with 47 days at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Academy.
▶ 1:11:21So you didn't reduce the timeline for any of the ICE agents to come on board. We've reduced the timeline for the previous certified federal law enforcement officers or special special agents where we went to the ones who are already trained in firearms and defensive tactics and criminal procedure. We adapted to a shorter program so they would just have the extensive immigration nationality act training, immigration law and ICE specific training.
▶ 1:11:52So, if you hired somebody for ICE today, how much training would they receive before they become a full-time agent?
▶ 1:12:00So, for a person off the street who has never been a law enforcement officer, they're looking at approximately three months of training, sir.
▶ 1:12:08And the 47 days is for who?
▶ 1:12:10That is for everyone that hasn't uh who's never worked for ICER. So, you could have someone that's a Capitol Police officer. They would not have to go through extended training for when it comes to defensive tactics, firearms, etc. They would have to go through the rigorous immigration training which unfortunately immigration law is just as confusing and long as tax code which we have to ensure that we devote that extensive time to.
▶ 1:12:36Thank you so much. But
▶ 1:12:37yes sir,
▶ 1:12:37would you provide the committee
▶ 1:12:40uh with the timeline?
▶ 1:12:41Yes sir.
▶ 1:12:44We will we will provide you
▶ 1:12:45some of us understand is 47 days. Yes sir. We will provide
▶ 1:12:49you're telling us it's three months
▶ 1:12:51from the beginning sir when they go ahead and come on pre-employment training to the
▶ 1:12:55OJT program afterwards but we will provide the committee with a full
▶ 1:13:00uh for Mr. Lions and Mr. Scott. Over the past several weeks the president has made a series of comments regarding the midterm election. Uh the president has urged my Republican colleagues in Congress to nationalize elections. Now are you involved in any planning [snorts] on guarding precincts in this country as of today? Mr. Scott?
▶ 1:13:28No sir.
▶ 1:13:29Mr. Lions?
▶ 1:13:30No sir.
▶ 1:13:31So there's no information. You not been asked to start deploying people for areas anywhere? No sir. [clears throat]
▶ 1:13:40Well, thank you very much. Uh, Mr. Lions, U. I I'll get it in writing, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to follow your your directions on the
▶ 1:13:52Uh, gentleman yields back. Thank you, ranking member. Uh, I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. McCall, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 1:14:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, a decade ago when I chaired this committee, Mr. Thompson and I passed a bill to authorize ICE into law. It was a bipartisan effort. It passed the House both Republican and Democrat. A decade later, here we are. The Dones have called to abolish ICE. Now they're trying to shut it down.
▶ 1:14:29So, what has happened in that 10 years? I I let's go back to the last five four to five years. What happened in this country and at the border as a a someone who lives in a border state of Texas? We saw the most dangerous wide openen border that I've seen in my 22 years in Congress. 10 to 12 million people, and that's what we know about. I think it's far greater, came into this country.
▶ 1:14:58Many of them dangerous violent criminals, some known or suspected terrorists, which I find extremely dangerous. That's why I served as an impeachment manager for my Orcus because he violated federal law. The federal statute says as a former federal prosecutor, I know this shall detain aggravated felons. What did my do? He told his agents, that's discretionary. you can release them.
▶ 1:15:29As a result, we had tens of thousands of aggravated felons left on the streets of America to roam freely, not to to mention the the human and sex trafficking of children, Mr. Lions, as you pointed out. So, what is the administration trying to do? They're trying to remove a public safety threat from the United States of America. That is their job.
▶ 1:15:56Restoring public safety should be the number one priority. And one of the problems here as I examine it is that Minnesota, Minneapolis in particular, is a sanctuary city. What does that mean? That means that it's a magnet for illegal. They're protected under the current situation because state and locals will not cooperate with federal law enforcement. In fact, Mr. Hawaiians.
▶ 1:16:19Uh, is it not true that they were not honoring ICE detainers that were put on dangerous felons in prison so that you could remove them from the United States?
▶ 1:16:31That is correct, sir. The detainers were were not honored at the local level in
▶ 1:16:36This is a number one violation. In addition, the rhetoric on the left led to over a th00and% increase in assaults on ICE officers, an increase of over 8,000 uh of death threats to them. All this created a perfect storm for our officers being thrown into this situation. And then agent Bevino came into the picture.
▶ 1:17:03And I would argue in fairness that he escalated the situation by the way that was handled. Your officers are not trained to effectuate crowd control. They are trained to move in surgically, go in and remove these dangerous, violent criminals from the United States of I've called for deescalation after the two deaths, the two shootings that took place.
▶ 1:17:32Uh I believe that these roving patrols should be done at the border rather than in the the major cities of the United States. So when the president decided to to remove agent Bevino and put in Tom Hman, who I've known for years, a consumate professional, law enforcement professional. I commended the president and what has been done since Mr. Homman came into the job. We now have targeted law enforcement operations.
▶ 1:18:02He is returning to the original mission of ICE. He is working with state and locals to do the crowd control. He is getting them to honor the ICE detainers. He is also getting the body cameras put on them and the roving patrols in his words to me should be done at the border not in major cities. My question to you Mr. Lines is Mr.
▶ 1:18:29Hman now are his operations in Minneapolis now bringing the situation uh under control. Sir, we've seen a deescalation in the fact that we the protests, while they still go on, have subsided and ICE has been allowed to do their targeted intelligence driven enforcement operation. Just the other night, local authorities arrested 54 protesters at the local level where ICE officers did not have to be engaged in that.
▶ 1:18:57My final question to you, do you believe the model that Mr. Hman is now setting in Minneapolis should be a model for the nation? Gentleman's time is expired.
▶ 1:19:04If I could allow the answer,
▶ 1:19:06I I understand that, but I'm holding
▶ 1:19:07I'd like on the record an answer. Mr. Chairman, do you agree that Mr. Hman's model is one for the nation?
▶ 1:19:13Gentleman's time is expired.
▶ 1:19:14Yes or no?
▶ 1:19:15I now recognize a gentleman from California, Mr. Swallwell, for 5
▶ 1:19:19A couple nights ago, I met
▶ 1:19:22with a woman who works as a cashier at a grocery store, and I told her I was coming to see you, Mr. Lions, and she said, "Will you ask him?" And she didn't want to give her name. She was terrified to give her name, but she said, "When I get off my shift around midnight and I walk through the parking lot to my car," she said, "If somebody rolls up in an unidentified van and gets out wearing all black and their face is covered and they don't have any identification and they ask me to get into the van,
▶ 1:19:54how do I know who they are? How does she know, Mr. Lines? How does she know if they're an ICE agent or bad
▶ 1:20:04Sir, ICE agents have identifiable placards on their uniforms as well as their badges representative. But you won't see ICE agents rolling through the parking lots and just snatching someone up. ICE does intelligence driven targeted enforcement operations.
▶ 1:20:19Well, Mr. Hman and others have said that they target individuals based on the color of their skin and the accents that they speak and that's why people are running through the fields and factories where they work. Director Lions, last year you said in Phoenix at the Border Security Expo that you wanted to see a deportation process that was like quote Amazon Prime but with human beings. Mr. Lions, how many times has Amazon Prime shot a mom three times in the face?
▶ 1:20:45None, sir. But you're also
▶ 1:20:47It's the square root of zero. That's
▶ 1:20:49Yes, sir. Yeah. But if if we're going to go down that route of my comment, I did say that comment. However, that comment was taken out. If you go back and watch the video, I did say that we need to be more efficient when it comes to removing individuals from the United States because ICE doesn't detain punitively. We detain to remove. I don't want to see people in custody.
▶ 1:21:08At the end of my statement was at again to your point, it was a industry day for AI and efficiencies, but I did say at the end of it, but we deal with human beings, so we can't be like them.
▶ 1:21:20That's the key part that you're leaving out. Well, speaking of human beings, how many times has Amazon Prime shot a nurse 10 times in the back?
▶ 1:21:28How many times has Amazon Prime dragged a woman out of her car by her hair and then dragged her down the street?
▶ 1:21:34How many ICE agents have been fired for their conduct under your leadership?
▶ 1:21:39Sir, I can [clears throat] get you that data. I'll get that back to you.
▶ 1:21:42Is it more than one?
▶ 1:21:44I'm not going to speak about personnel actions, but I'll get you that data. Can you tell us if at least God I hope at least one person has been fired for their conduct since these operations have begun? Are you are you telling us you can't even say one person's been
▶ 1:21:57Sir, I'm not going to talk about personnel actions, but we will get back to you.
▶ 1:21:59But two people have been killed so far. Is that right? A nurse named Freddy and a mom named Good. Two people have been killed so
▶ 1:22:07Yes, sir.
▶ 1:22:10Mr. Lions, will you apologize to the family of Renee Good for being called a domestic terrorist by the president and his leadership?
▶ 1:22:19No, sir.
▶ 1:22:20Why not?
▶ 1:22:22Sir, I welcome the opportunity to speak to the family in private, but I'm not going to comment on any active
▶ 1:22:27Is she a domestic terrorist?
▶ 1:22:29Sir, I'm not going to comment on the And the president and secretary Nome are elected officials. That's your right to their comments, but as law enforce career law enforcement, we won't speak to any.
▶ 1:22:41Do you agree with their comments,
▶ 1:22:42sir? I'm not going to go ahead and talk about any ongoing investigation.
▶ 1:22:46Will you apologize to the family of Alex Prey for also being called a domestic
▶ 1:22:51Sir, again, I'm not going to speak to any ongoing investigation.
▶ 1:22:54Mr. Lions, your staying to lead ICE is a decision. Sir, I'm sorry.
▶ 1:23:01Your staying on to lead ICE is a decision. And I've read your background. You have a decorated career. You've served in the military. You are what I would call otherwise employable. I think most people would agree this is not the only job that you can get. But since you've been on this job, women have been dragged by their hair through our streets. A six-year-old child battling stage 4 cancer has been deported.
▶ 1:23:30And it turns out he was a US citizen. People are running through the fields where they work. People who've gone to the streets as allies have been shot and publicly It's a decision to stay on at this point.
▶ 1:23:47And considering your honorable service in the past and the dishonorable acts that those who have worked for you have conducted and the disgraceful statements that the leadership above you have said, you now have a decision. Will you stand with the kids who you're supposed to or will you side with the killers bringing terror to our streets? Mr. Lions, will you resign from ICE?
▶ 1:24:14No, sir, I won't.
▶ 1:24:15Why not? Because sir, that child that you're showing right there, the men and women of ICE took care of him when his father abandoned him in ran law
▶ 1:24:23Time is expired.
▶ 1:24:23He never should have got time expired. I recognize the gentleman from Mississippi. A guest for five minutes.
▶ 1:24:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we stand on the verge of a second Democrat shutdown of the United States Department of Homeland Security just within the last 90 days. The Department of Homeland Security employs 260,000 men and women across 22 different agencies.
▶ 1:24:50Those agencies include 63,000 men and women who work for CBP, 60,000 who work for TSA, 22,000 for FEMA, 18,000 who works for USCIS, almost 50,000 civilian and military employees with the United States Coast Guard, 7,800 Secret Service employees, 2500 SISA employees, and over 8,000 agents and analysts with the Department
▶ 1:25:20of Homeland Security Investigation who perform a crucial function, a crucial function to protect and serve this country. This second government shutdown led by my friends on the Democrat side of the aisle will leave our country less Don't just take my word for it.
▶ 1:25:45Let's look at the words of the Biden President Biden and Kla Harris, Department of Homeland Security, in September of 2023, as the nation faced a potential government shutdown, they issued a fact sheet. That fact sheet is entitled, the impact of government shutdown on the DHS This fact sheet says this.
▶ 1:26:13It says DHS workforce is comprised of extraordinary public servants who safeguard this nation. It goes on to say any lapse in federal funding would disrupt this vital work, leaving Americans less safe as a Those working without pay include law enforcement, conducting such acts as seizing illegal narcotics like fentinel, combating child exploitation and child predators, identify
▶ 1:26:43and arresting human trafficking, responding to natural disasters, presenting preventing cyber attacks and protecting protecting US government leaders. And so I ask you, gentlemen, as we are once again on the verge of a shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security, if the Democrats take us to the edge, if they refuse to sign a CR, if once again the men and women who serve under your leadership, if they
▶ 1:27:14are once again not I ask you, how will that impact our nation? Will America be more safe or will America be less safe if we are once again led into a government shutdown by the Democrat party? Mr.
▶ 1:27:32Scott, I believe consistency and seeing support from the leadership of on both sides of this building uh and the president is very important to border security. I think the rhetoric and the back and forth, the politic the politicizing of law enforcement in general detracts from the general morale of our personnel.
▶ 1:27:54Is it not important that we pay the men and women who serve under your command?
▶ 1:27:58It's critically important.
▶ 1:27:59And in a government shutdown, the bills don't stop, do they not? The bills continue to to to acrue.
▶ 1:28:05And the uh the deployment of technology ceases in many cases and America becomes less safe. Would you agree with that
▶ 1:28:15I would agree. America becomes less
▶ 1:28:17Mr. Edllo, what about you?
▶ 1:28:19Well, Congressman, as I'm sure you're aware, USCIS is a little different in that we are fee funded. So, during a shutdown, uh the men and women working for USCIS will continue to be paid. However, in terms of our screening and vet vventing enterprises as well as everything else we do, we form very we have formed very very strong working relationships with the other components and that's critical for us to be able to do our work.
▶ 1:28:45While we may be there able to continue without our partners being paid and with them being furled, it's going to make America significantly less
▶ 1:28:55And Mr. lines.
▶ 1:28:57Yes, sir. It will have a great impact especially on the homeland security task forces and the men and women that are focused on the transnational crime and foreign terrorist organization.
▶ 1:29:06Uh Mr. Lines, very quickly, we've had many members of this committee who have made allegations uh that Democrats have once again taken the mantle of the party to defund the police and abolish ICE. Uh do you wish to take my last few seconds to speak about the consequences that has on the men and women that you serve? the men and women of ISIS sworn law enforcement officers who are dedicated to do their mission to protecting the United States.
▶ 1:29:31Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. I now recognize a gentleman from California, Mr. Korea. Five minutes of questions.
▶ 1:29:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to welcome our witnesses today. Gentlemen, wanted to start out by talking a little bit about my district, Southern California, Disneyland. Southern California is the center of manufacturing for the United States. California biggest ax state in the union. California also big donor taxpayer dollars to the United States.
▶ 1:30:08President Trump got elected on the promise to deport the worst of the Your numbers, Mr. Lions. Less than 14% of those arrested by ICE first year 2025 had charges or convictions of violent 70% of those deported had not even a traffic ticket. Mr.
▶ 1:30:34Alliance, I think we're all patriots, but I'm trying to figure out how, this is a question to you, sir, how deporting a nanny makes our nation safer, stronger. How trying to deport the father of three Marines make this country stronger. How deporting the parents of number of Marines at Camp Pendleton makes this nation stronger. Sir, thank you for your welcome.
▶ 1:31:01First off, just to address your uh the numbers with the 14%, sir, that's 14% that are listed as violent criminal felonies. However, what's left out of that is the fact that what's left off that list,
▶ 1:31:13those 70% that don't have a traffic ticket and deported. How has that made our nation stronger,
▶ 1:31:20sir? If you look at what ICE has done, more than 60% of every individual that is in ICE custody has a pending or a conviction on a criminal charge, not to
▶ 1:31:29Sir, let me move ahead. I only have three minutes and we'll talk later. Let's talk about American citizens again. Back home, people, young people asking me, "What do I have to carry with me so I won't be deported? Is Mr. Lions carrying a passport? Is that enough so they won't be detained or deported in my district?"
▶ 1:31:54Sir, an American citizen shouldn't carry or shouldn't feel the need to carry.
▶ 1:31:58Let me tell you what some of your ICE agents have done. They pulled over a gentleman in a pickup truck, showed his passport, they threw it to the side, detained him. What do we have to do to show that we're American citizens?
▶ 1:32:11Sir, no American citizen falls on Title 8. No American citizen will be arrested for being American citizen.
▶ 1:32:16But you just said to my colleague that nobody has been fired because of violations of the law for disciplinary actions. Yet this is happening in my district. Mr. lines. We're a very boring district. We work hard, mind our own business, ice in our streets now. People are terrorized. American citizens, number of cases of Americans being detained, being taken in, some being held for 5 days.
▶ 1:32:46Sir, what do we do with those people in that situation? What do we tell them? Sir, I don't know of any particular case that you're speaking of American citizen
▶ 1:32:57I'm more than happy to provide you a list, sir.
▶ 1:33:00100%. Sir,
▶ 1:33:01so let me ask you, sir,
▶ 1:33:05are you surveilling US citizens today?
▶ 1:33:07No, sir.
▶ 1:33:10Those people protesting, practicing this first amendment right, photos of them, data taken, they're not being placed in any kind of a database. There is no database for protesters. Sir,
▶ 1:33:23one of your officers in Maine said to one of the individuals protesting, "We're going to put your face in a little database." What does that mean? Do you have a little database of
▶ 1:33:34No sir, we don't.
▶ 1:33:35Then what do you think your ICE agent was doing to this individual when he said those statements?
▶ 1:33:39I can't speak for that individual, sir, but I can assure you there is no database that's tracking genocide we're a sanctuary state. Does that cause you problem picking up individuals?
▶ 1:33:53Yes, sir.
▶ 1:33:55I have with me today some data from Sheriff Barnes, Orange County Sheriff, very good friend. He's been here to testify numerous times for 2025. He referred about 300 individuals for your office to pick up. 250 were picked up. 50 were never picked up. We had a long conversation saying, "What is going on? If these are the worst of the worst, you've called ICE to pick them up and you didn't pick them up.
▶ 1:34:24Can you explain to us why you didn't pick up all these individuals that were referred to your office to pick up?"
▶ 1:34:30Yes, sir. That that's a key part of that is the referral. We make sure that those individuals are eligible to be placed in detention and for movability.
▶ 1:34:39We never even look individuals. Gentlemen's time.
▶ 1:34:42I would like to talk to you about this issue later on. Mr. Lions, thank you very much.
▶ 1:34:45Time is expired. All right, I now rise the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Fluger, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 1:34:49Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, why are we here? And I think it's pretty clear that until proven otherwise at 5 years of experience that it seems like one side of the aisle is in favor of open borders and wants to abolish ICE. And I hope that that can be proven wrong. and the other side of the aisle wants to enforce the laws that are on the books. Um, Commissioner Scott, how many administrations have you worked for in your career?
▶ 1:35:21Uh, since the Clinton administration.
▶ 1:35:23So, multiple Republicans, multiple
▶ 1:35:26Is it a crime to enter this country illegally and to skip a notice to appear, to skip a court-ordered appearance, uh, and to not comply with the laws that, uh, that that are on the
▶ 1:35:37Yes, sir. Has that changed since you started working for President Clinton?
▶ 1:35:42So, I can't imagine establishing the fact that it is a crime to skip a notice to appear. We had 10 to 12 million people who entered this country illegally. In the Biden administration, as a conservative estimate, there are sanctuary cities all throughout the United States who have said, "We will not comply with federal laws.
▶ 1:36:03That's why we're here today." I can't imagine being a DHS officer and ICE officer and being threatened with violence, having death threats, being doxed, having your family identified, putting that on the internet and violently telling you that they are going to kill you because you are enforcing the laws that are on this books that were passed by both sides of the aisle in this body. Director Lions, how many of your agents are being doxed, threatened, or harassed?
▶ 1:36:32We've had over a 8,000% increase on death threats.
▶ 1:36:37You know, I'm in the middle of working [clears throat] a bipartisan domestic terrorism working group with another another member on this committee. There is a group called Defend 612 that has come out with tactics, techniques, and procedures in Minneapolis to do things like encourage protesters to impede law enforcement, to push civilians towards legally and physically risky confrontations, to help mobilize a counterprotest, to coordinate strategies and trainings to aid ilim illegal immigrants
▶ 1:37:07to avoid detention. Are you familiar with groups like this? Defend
▶ 1:37:13Yes, sir. We have multiple groups around that in all 50 states.
▶ 1:37:16There there's an article written by Christina Buttons uh and I'd like unanimous consent to enter this into the record called Inside Minneapolis's ICE Watch Network.
▶ 1:37:27Chairman, I'd seek unanimous consent to
▶ 1:37:29without objection.
▶ 1:37:31This article talks about these tactics, techniques, and procedures that put your law enforcement agents and your agents at risk. What is different about Minneapolis? What kind of coordination have you received from the local police department that we don't see any of this in Texas? I we we've not seen and there have been many ICE operations that have happened in Texas, but what's different from what you've seen in Minneapolis?
▶ 1:37:52Unfortunately, sir, in the beginning of the Minneapolis operation, we didn't see any cooperation at the state or the local level, whether it be from the Minneapolis Police Department or the Minnesota State Police, which led to ICE officers and agents, as well as our other federal partners pretty much having to defend themselves from whatever impediment, riots, or protest.
▶ 1:38:11Were they told by local elected officials not to cooperate?
▶ 1:38:14Yes, sir.
▶ 1:38:15Is that because they're a sanctuary
▶ 1:38:18I I'm assuming that's what it is, sir. I I can't speak to the mind of those elected officials, but they were ordered not to to stand up.
▶ 1:38:24How did it make you feel as somebody who carries out the laws that this body has passed? When you hear the mayor of Minneapolis say, "F ICE."
▶ 1:38:31Oh, sir, it's it's I mean, from a morale standpoint, it it hurts us to the fact that for decades, and I've worked since President uh Bush, ICE has always been in Minneapolis. We've always been in every major city and state. So, it wasn't like it was a brand new thing. We've always been doing immigration enforcement. So, that's demoralizing. Uh, Commissioner Scott, are you separating families?
▶ 1:38:54Um, tell me about when you serve President Obama. Has anything changed in the policy of uh deportation? And how many people did President Obama deport?
▶ 1:39:05I don't have that number uh in front of me. Policies and how things are enforced do change. The laws have not changed. I believe what you're referring to is literally when someone is arrested, whether it's on immigration or whether it's a normal criminal offense and they have children, we don't necessarily prosecute the children. But when someone's deported, if they want to take their children with them, they have that right. We do not separate them.
▶ 1:39:30I I hope that the other side of the aisle will read this article on defend 612 and look at the tactics, techniques, and procedures. And if this is domestic terrorism where we have a group that's on signal that is calling out agents and doing things to interrupt, intercede uh and prevent law enforcement from carrying out the laws that this body passed that you'll have the courage to call it domestic terror terrorism if it is that way. And I yield back.
▶ 1:39:53Gentleman yields back and I now recognize the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Panadar, for five minutes of
▶ 1:40:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning to our witnesses. Commissioner Scott, the ICU nurse, Alex Freddy, deserve to
▶ 1:40:18I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation, sir.
▶ 1:40:23Do you believe that he deserved to die? Should he be killed by your agents?
▶ 1:40:30I'm not going to comment on ongoing investigation, sir, before it's concluded and all the facts are Do you agree with CBP commander Bino statement that Alex Prey was planning to massacre law enforcement agents?
▶ 1:40:48I'm not going to comment on an ongoing investigation. Sir,
▶ 1:40:53Director Lions, did Renee Good deserve to die?
▶ 1:41:00Sir, I can't comment on ongoing D lines, do you agree with Secretary Gnome and Vice President Vance's characterization of Renee Good as a domestic terrorist?
▶ 1:41:14Sir, I can't speak to their comments as that they are their own, but I as an ongoing investigation, I can't speak to
▶ 1:41:21Director Alliance, what did your agents mean when he said, "You raise your voice, I erase your voice." in the video just that we have seen all of us have
▶ 1:41:35sir I'm not aware of that video that you have sir I can't comment on what that officer has said
▶ 1:41:40does that statement if that statement if I show you the video of that does that statement reflects the value of your agency and does ICE respect and adhere to the first amendment
▶ 1:41:54yes sir ICE does respect and refer to the first amendment but that doesn't respect that were your statement that you say it doesn't represent the values of the men and women of ICE.
▶ 1:42:04Commissioner Scott, does CBP respect and adhere to the first and second
▶ 1:42:09Yes, we do.
▶ 1:42:11Don't you agree that Alex Prey had every right to exercise his first and second amendment freedoms before being shot in the streets by one of your agents? I believe every person in the United States has a right to their constitutional rights.
▶ 1:42:31Look, I have heard and seen enough. I'm just sick and tired of your agents running around in our cities, in our streets, causing illegal activities.
▶ 1:42:51ICE and CBP thugs are roaming our attacking our communities, using our children as bait, referring to people as bodies and targeting people for their accents and the color of their skin, and killing American citizens.
▶ 1:43:16all while showing zero remorse for their Director Lions and Commissioner Scott, do you think President Trump will pardon you and your boss Christine M before he leaves office just like he has for insurrectionist and his political allies? Do you believe President Trump will pardon you?
▶ 1:43:48I'm not
▶ 1:43:48because Go ahead.
▶ 1:43:50I'm not going to speak on behalf of President Trump, but I'll tell you, I signed up for this job to protect America and I'm very proud of the service that I provide and I don't need a pardon from anybody.
▶ 1:44:01Well, you better hope so. You better hope you get been pardoned because you will be held accountable for the absolute disregard of the law your agencies have shown over the past year. Your agencies have lost the trust of the American people with millions taking to the streets to protect the illegal actions of your And that's why I introduce a
▶ 1:44:31bill in the United States Congress to abolish ICE. ICE must be abolished. I also co-sponsored a bill to impeach Secretary Christine M. And I believe Christine Must be impeached.
▶ 1:44:53And this Congress must do everything in his power to carry out oversight actions against these rogues departments including if
▶ 1:45:04gentleman's time is expired. Uh a witness has requested a break. Committee will recess for 5 minutes. Members of the audience uh will remain seated.
▶ 1:53:41Committee will come to order. I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Gonzalez, for 5 minutes of
▶ 1:53:50Uh, thank you, chairman, and thank you, gentlemen, for your service to our great country. Uh I was speaking to uh some agents that were deployed from Texas to Minnesota just asking for the ground truth of what was happening. And one of the things that stood out to me is one of the agents said, "Tony, it reminds me a lot of Fallujah. Having someone that served in Fallujah, that caught my attention." And so my question first is to you, uh, Commissioner Scott is on the safety of our agents.
▶ 1:54:14Um, in particular, I I see that these task forces work, these anti-gang, these anti-terrorism task forces, but thinking of Fallujah reminds me of we were fighting a war that was the Persian Gulf when the when the world had changed. And so my question is, is there a way we can protect our law enforcement uh our federal law enforcement agents in particular uh through I I've got a bill in particular through bulletproof uh glass or ballistic ballistic uh uh windshields.
▶ 1:54:42Is that something you think that could help protect the uh the law enforcement officers that are on the front lines?
▶ 1:54:48I think that can help protect the officers on the front lines, but it goes much farther than that because things have changed. So, the tactical infrastructure at the border, the bulletproof vests, all of that that helps tremendously. But we're fighting a different fight now. The reason you saw so many people surged into LA at one point and then now into Minneapolis was because we had to surge additional resources in to protect the ICE agents that were literally just going to try to make a lawful arrest. So we had to put in two teams. One to do the arrest and another one to deal with the protesters.
▶ 1:55:19Luckily CBP, well not luckily, unfortunately CBP's had to build out this capability over the years because we had been dealing with increased protests at the border, mass incursions. So, we trained our people how to do crowd control. But let's not miss the fact that we have coordinated, wellfunded, and I think insurgencies or terrorist organizations, however you want to call it, literally trying to prevent legal laws from being enforced in the United States. That is a dramatic change. That's why we've had to shift.
▶ 1:55:46So, we got to figure out how to protect our officers and agents more holistically on social media. How do we keep them from being doxed? When somebody goes to like like did to Director Lions, they follow his kid home and then have protest in his front yard and then put it out live on video. That needs to be a crime. I don't want to violate anybody's right to free speech, but going into your front yard and harassing your family just because you're a law enforcement officer, that should not be a protected action.
▶ 1:56:12The world has changed and we need to change with it to make sure our federal law enforcement officers and their families are protected. My next question is for Director Lines. uh body cameras have been deployed in in Minnesota. I think transparency helps regain public trust. Is there any plan to release any of the footage uh to the public? 100%. Sir, that's one thing that I'm committed to is the full transparency and I fully welcome body cameras all across the spectrum and all of our law enforcement activities.
▶ 1:56:42It is sir, body cam footage will be released.
▶ 1:56:44I agree with you completely. Everyone assumes this body came uh footage is bad footage. So, in so many cases, it's the exact opposite. And we get a show from the officer's lens what exactly they're dealing with on a date on a daily basis, not just a 15-second clip we see on TikTok or whatever it may be. I'm I'm very pleased to hear the releasing of more public footage. Uh my next question is is for you u uh Commissioner Scott, as a member of Congress, I have a very sim all of us questions really for all of us.
▶ 1:57:14As a member of Congress, what can I do to make sure what happened in Minnesota doesn't happen in my
▶ 1:57:22Put laws in place that protect our officers and agents so they can go out and do their job confidently and know they really truly have the backing. And then I got to plug it actually fund the programs. So when body cameras got rolled out to CBP, the technical capability of the camera got rolled out, but the funding for the personnel to support the programs and the data that is that can drain basically all your other operations.
▶ 1:57:46So fund the entire program so that we can be transparent and that we can make sure America knows what we're doing because that trust is is critically important.
▶ 1:57:55Thank you for that. My next question is Director Edllo. Uh too many times we talk about the enforcement side which I think is very important. You see the millions of criminal aliens that are loose in our country. We got to go out there and keep our communities safe. But we need to be talking more about the legal aspect of it, the people that are doing it the right way. I was very encouraged to see 65,000 visas get released not too not too long ago. The the question I have is what are the detail? What is the timeline behind that? What is the purpose of those?
▶ 1:58:21Can you can you specifically speak to the legal visa process? Well, if you're referring to the 65,000 that were the supplemental H2Bs. Exactly. Right.
▶ 1:58:32So, that's a uh there's 60,000 or 65,000 66,000, excuse me, that that go out every year at two times in a year. And then Congress has for many many years given the department the uh authority through the secretary to increase that based on the needs of the country. Uh so that uh that those visas were released. Uh I don't remember exactly when the
▶ 1:58:55time is expired. I apologize. Uh and again any questions? I know I'm I'm being tight on the rules. We have to be uh there's a lot of questions. We want to get through everything today. Any members will be able to submit questions in writing and you can detail these. Um thank you very much. I now recognize a gentleman from Rhode Island, Mr. Magazine, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 1:59:14Mr. Lions, has ICE hired anyone who is charged with a crime related to the January 6th riot here at the capital? Sir, I don't I don't have that information, but I would say no.
▶ 1:59:26Would you if you could you find out and please report back?
▶ 1:59:28Yes, sir. I'll get that take that.
▶ 1:59:30Would you hire someone who attacked police officers here on January 6th even though they were unfortunately pardoned by the president?
▶ 1:59:37Sir, we take assault on law enforcement very serious and we have a good strenuous vetting program, I'm sure.
▶ 1:59:43Thank you, Commissioner Scott. How many of your agents have been disciplined for excessive use of force over the past year? I cannot comment on ongoing or
▶ 1:59:51I'm not asking you to comment on a specific investigation. How many of your agents have been disciplined? I'm just asking for the total.
▶ 1:59:58I'll get that number to you. I don't have it in front of me.
▶ 2:00:00All right. I I sent you a letter asking that question and haven't received a response. Will you commit to sending a response to me, please?
▶ 2:00:06Yes, sir.
▶ 2:00:07All right. I'd like you to view this
▶ 2:00:11This is video of what appears to be pepper spray thrown by a federal agent into Raphael Verza's car. You okay, mama? You okay?
▶ 2:00:20Seconds later, he realized his daughter, one-year-old Ariana, was in the back seat, also battling the chemicals.
▶ 2:00:27Are you familiar with this incident?
▶ 2:00:30Okay. Now, this is a family of United States citizens who were out to get groceries at a Sam's Club in Chicago. When they arrived, they could see that there was a chaotic operation in the parking lot. They turned their vehicle to leave, at which point your agents sprayed pepper spray out of their vehicle and into the driver's side window of the Verazza's family vehicle. Is it proper procedure to aim pepper spray into the window of a moving
▶ 2:00:57I'm not familiar. I don't have all the details on this. It's an ongoing question, but to answer your specific question, is it proper procedure?
▶ 2:01:03Try to avoid that. No, it's not.
▶ 2:01:05Try to avoid it because you understand it's dangerous, right? Not just for the driver, but for pedestrians, for other people who could be hit by a car if a driver is blinded. Right.
▶ 2:01:14I 100% understand that. But you're talking about intentional versus not intentional. Been in a vehicle in one of these situations.
▶ 2:01:21Reclaiming my time from the video, this was clearly intentional. And you know as well as I do that in any other law enforcement agency, if an officer did this, they would be put on leave, investigated, and likely disciplined. Uh, were any of your agents ever investigated or disciplined for this
▶ 2:01:38I'll have to get back to you on this incident. I believe it's still an ongoing investigation, but we have at
▶ 2:01:42I'd like to show you another video. This one is from Minneapolis. So, as you can see, the agent sprayed pepper spray at close range directly into the face of an individual who had already been pinned to the ground by three other agents. And there's a picture of this behind me to give you a better view.
▶ 2:02:11Is this proper procedure for the use of pepper spray? I cannot comment on that because you're only showing one piece and that subject has this clear invested.
▶ 2:02:21But this this is not the intended use of this of this weapon. Correct.
▶ 2:02:25The intended use is to a is to try to avoid escalating. It's to deescalate the situation again.
▶ 2:02:30Well, he was already pinned to the ground by three other agents. I think he had been deescalated. Is there any investigation into this agent for for doing this?
▶ 2:02:38I'll get back to you. There are several open investigations.
▶ 2:02:40All right. Listen, there has been no accountability in your agency under the Trump administration. None. Your agency has repeatedly been caught on tape using unnecessary violence against civilians and you can't even tell me if any of these agents have been investigated or disciplined. You are supposed to be making people safer and instead your agents are being unnecessarily violent. And that is why the Trump administration has lost the trust of the American people on immigration. Understand it's not just the actions of the agents in the field.
▶ 2:03:09It is the lack of accountability from the top that has caused public trust to erode. And there need to be major reforms before we vote to give any of you any more funding. Your agencies need to act like other law enforcement agencies. Take off the masks, wear badge numbers, enforce discipline with real standards of conduct. But accountability starts at the top. Christy Gnome is completely unfit and should be removed from office.
▶ 2:03:35And all of the operations that we just watched were overseen by Commander Gregory Bavino, who himself engaged in excessive use of force. He even admitted that he lied to a federal judge when he claimed he had been hit by a rock prior to throwing tear gas a tear gas canister at a crowd of civilians. But then after the footage came out and that turned out to be not true, he admitted that he had lied about it. Mr. Scott, what disciplinary action do you plan to take against Mr. Bavino?
▶ 2:04:02I cannot comment on c in I cannot comment on personnel actions on India.
▶ 2:04:07Is there is there an investigation underway or being considered in Mr.
▶ 2:04:11Every allegation and every use of force is fully investigated with investigate
▶ 2:04:15goes through a review to start forcing
▶ 2:04:19Gentleman's time has expired. I now recognize the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Strong, for five minutes of
▶ 2:04:24Thank you, Chairman Garberino, Ranking Member Thompson, and thank you to all our witnesses for being here today. Let me start with the simple facts. The border is now closed. Fentanol poisonings are down by more than 35%. I thank each of you for your service to our country.
▶ 2:04:40I remember in April of 23 when then Secretary Morcus testified um before this very committee that the US border was, and I quote, secure, close quote, and not open.
▶ 2:04:56At the same time, under his leadership, illegal alien population surged to over 11 million uh from uh they were coming from more than 160 different countries as migrants were released into our country by the millions. That's what the Biden um uh in concert with Secretary Alejandro Morcus did to America. U they sold America out.
▶ 2:05:23The consequences of their failures were predictable when the United States failed to enforce its border. Uh the winners are not legal immigrants or American communities. It's the cartels, drug smug smugglers, human traffickers, and violent criminals. We didn't need new laws to stop this crisis. We needed a president willing to enforce the laws already on the books. President Trump did exactly that.
▶ 2:05:51Another promise made, another promise kept. And today, the number of illegal aliens being released into our country is zero. Zero. That's what it took a president to make the hard decisions. And America is better because of it. So my question is straightforward. Commissioner Scott, was Secretary Morcus telling the truth when he testified before this committee that the border was secure?
▶ 2:06:16Consistent with my prior testimony, no, he was not. As you stated earlier, the underlying immigration laws haven't fundamentally changed in decades. What has changed uh what has changed is how different administrations choose to enforce these laws, particularly during the previous administration. It was 100% orchestrated to allow illegal aliens to invade our country under the Biden administration.
▶ 2:06:43From an operational standpoint, how important is consistency and enforcement uh for deterrence and border control?
▶ 2:06:52It's extremely important. And we keep talking about immigration, but let me remind people, border security really is national security. The cartels use illegal immigration to literally overwhelm law enforcement at the border and bring in all kinds of other threats. It's the second wave that always is the most critical. The interior enforcement sent a message around the world that we're not going to just let you go. It took away the marketing ability of the cartels to get people to come to the border and overwhelm law enforcement. This all works together.
▶ 2:07:21It's critically important because it is national
▶ 2:07:23Thank you, Commissioner. The men and women of DHS deserve our respect and the ability to do their job effectively without mi mixed signals from Washington. Also want to be clear. I support the men and women who work every day to secure our borders and enforce federal immigration laws. But lately, we've seen growing strain on political rhetoric that goes beyond policy disagreement and targets the legitimacy of law enforcement itself. Rhetoric that puts a target on the backs of agents doing their jobs.
▶ 2:07:54Acting uh Director Lines, we keep hearing calls from left-wing politicians to abolish ICE. Some including uh including many who should know better have denounced federal law enforcement as secret police. How would you respond to these rest reckless attacks?
▶ 2:08:12Sir, I can speak from personal experience having served multiple administrations at the men and women of ICE are out there every day doing the law as it's written.
▶ 2:08:21What what are the consequences of not enforcing federal immigration laws? Sir, if you look at what ICE has done, if you look at the amount of, as I said earlier, the amount of known suspected terrorists that we removed from the country, we arrested 1,477 this year and removed, 1480. Just that impact alone along with the 7,800 gang members makes a significant impact on public safety and national security. Thank you. Turning to you, Director Edllo.
▶ 2:08:46Uh, the US Citizenship and Immigration Service plays a role in administering legal immigration and and protecting the integrity of the system. When immigration enforcement is undermined or treated as illegitimate, how does that affect USCIS's ability to manage lawful pathways, prevent fraud, and maintain public confidence in the legal immigration process?
▶ 2:09:10It makes it absolutely impossible, Congressman, and that's why we've done everything we can to administer that system now and to not cut corners that were previously cut during the last administration.
▶ 2:09:20Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 2:09:22The gentleman yields back. I now recognize a gentleman from New York, Mr. Goldman. Five minutes of questions.
▶ 2:09:27Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Lions, what guidance have you given to your agents about asking people walking on the streets of America to show proof of Sir, as I stated earlier, the men and women of ICE, deportations officer, special agents, we conduct targeted intelligence-driven operation. We don't walk around on the streets asking people about their American citizenship.
▶ 2:09:48Really? So, all of those individual American citizens who have been randomly asked are lying. Is that what you're
▶ 2:09:57sir? If the men and women of ICE are conducting an investigation, whether it be for Title 8 Immigration Enforcement or Title 18 criminal enforcement, they'll ask someone their nationality,
▶ 2:10:05right? But that's not targeted because they're asking all sorts of American citizens, including offduty law enforcement. Now, have you directed at any point your agents under the Supreme Court's racial profiling ruling to only stop nonwhite people and those who look like immigrants to ask for their citizenship papers?
▶ 2:10:27No sir, I haven't. Now you are aware of course and there's welldocumented uh numerous well-documented instances of people American citizens being asked to show and prove their citizenship. Do you know what other regimes in the 20th century century required similar proof of citizenship?
▶ 2:10:51Yes sir. sir? There was very nef various nefarious regimes that did that.
▶ 2:10:59Is Nazi Germany one?
▶ 2:11:00Yes. But I
▶ 2:11:01Is the Soviet Union?
▶ 2:11:03I honestly sir, I'm asking the questions. Is the Soviet Union one?
▶ 2:11:06Yes, sir. But I I totally I totally This is the wrong type of questioning you.
▶ 2:11:11No, let's I'll tell you what the wrong type of Holocaust Museum. If you wanting my time, Mr. Chairman,
▶ 2:11:19it's not the men and women of Vice that are out there doing it every day. So to say that the men and women of ice, Mr. and I'm reclaiming my time. I would like my time back. Please,
▶ 2:11:27please give me another 15 seconds because he was unnecessarily speaking.
▶ 2:11:32You said in your opening statement
▶ 2:11:34that references to ICE as the Gestapo or the secret police encourages threats against ICE agents.
▶ 2:11:43The problem is you have it backwards, sir. people are simply making valid observations about your tactics which are unamerican and outright fascist. So a I have a simple suggestion. If you don't want to be called a fascist regime or secret police then stop acting like one.
▶ 2:12:08But people are simply just observing what they are seeing and that's why people are making those comments. Now I was a prosecutor for 10 years. Prosecuted mob bosses, organized crime, violent criminals, the actual worst of the worst. Not a single criminal law enforcement agent that I worked with wore a mask to conceal their identity.
▶ 2:12:35But your department, which is a civil law enforcement agency, is defending the use of masks by your agents because of a so-called rise in threats and assaults against your officer. Now, you said in your opening testimony that assaults against ICE officers are up by more than 1,400%. Which is now even more than the 1300% that your gaslighting spokesperson, Trisha from Ohio, has recently been citing. But here's the problem.
▶ 2:13:05There are two separate very detailed, very thorough investigative reports based on your own data that both conclude that assaults against ICE officers are up about 25%. Which is far less of course than you assert and far less than you would expect from an agency that has more than doubled its hiring and has an even greater increase in arrests.
▶ 2:13:34Now, why is that a problem, Mr. Lions? It's a problem because the explanation that your agents are wearing masks because of fear of assaults or doxing is outright bogus. You and your untrained, unqualified, unvetted, unidentified agents are intentionally terrorizing our cities and communities all over this country.
▶ 2:14:04to avoid accountability for their excessive force and their lawless actions. That is why you're wearing masks. So, no one can hold you accountable. And you know that the FBI is not going to because notwithstanding all of the investigations all of you say are going on, the Department of Justice and the FBI has stated they are not investigating those two murders. This is not the America that I know and love.
▶ 2:14:34This is not the America my immigrants came to. And it's long past time that you reign in in your outofcontrol agency and start following the law and the constitution. And I yield back.
▶ 2:14:46Gentleman's time is expired. I now recognize a gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crane, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 2:14:52Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, it's interesting being in this hearing today, you know, where my Democrat colleagues continue to demonize ICE and Homeland Security. I think history and context are very important here. Um, it's not lost on most of the American public and my Democrat colleagues actually caused this entire crisis with their open border policies that they all voted for, letting in close to 15 million illegal aliens.
▶ 2:15:19Um, I also want to go through real quick some numbers of ICE deportations with other presidents who I believe both you, Mr. Scott, and you, Mr. Lions, have worked for. Under President Clinton, 12 million um, illegal aliens were deported and removed from this country. Some voluntary, some departures. He no riots under President Bush, two million. No riots.
▶ 2:15:44Obama, who was often referred to as the deorter and chief, five million including returns. No riots. President Trump in his first term, two million deported, no riots. President Biden, 4 million including expulsions, varying by estimates, no riots. President Trump again this year, with 2 million voluntary leaving through CBP Home app. Uh m Mr.
▶ 2:16:11Scott, can you explain why these other presidents that you work for, both Democrat and Republican, have deported far more people than this president and we've seen no riots?
▶ 2:16:22I would say it has a lot to do about rhetoric and misleading the American public about what's really going on and how important border security really is to this nation.
▶ 2:16:33Let's talk also about my Democrat colleagues and something they also supported and that's these sanctuary cities. I think that's very important and I don't think a lot of Americans really understand these sanctuary cities. Mr. Scott, Mr. Lions, is it true that you would rather send your officers into a jail to get some of these illegal alien criminals? Is it safer for your agents and also the illegal alien criminal if your officers are able to go into a jail instead of having to go out and find them on the street?
▶ 2:17:03Mr. Lines, I'll start with you.
▶ 2:17:05Yes, sir. would be you wouldn't see the amount of law enforcement officers involved in immigration operations,
▶ 2:17:09right? How about you, Mr. Scott?
▶ 2:17:11I 100% agree with the director and more just as importantly, it would allow me to put more agents back on the border to prevent people from getting in here in the first place.
▶ 2:17:19Let's also talk about these riots. Um, Mr. Scott, Mr. Lions. Do you guys remember any riots, you know, when uh for some of these victims that were assaulted and victimized by illegal alien criminals like Nate Baker, Lake and Riley, Fletcher Harris, Skyler, Provenza, Ivory Smith? I've got a whole list of them.
▶ 2:17:41Do you remember any riots from our our Democrats or their constituents when any of these American citizens were victimized by il illegal alien criminals?
▶ 2:17:51No, sir. No sir.
▶ 2:17:54Why do you think that is? Because that's the question that I get asked all the time. Congressman, why why do the Democrats care more about illegal alien criminals than they care about these American citizens? Many of them who are are young, have their entire lives ahead of them. Didn't show up to a protest, right, to obstruct federal law enforcement. They're just going about their daily lives and they get victimized by people who aren't supposed to be here. Why do you think they don't care about American citizens?
▶ 2:18:23I cannot speculate, but when I look at the chaos that it creates and the corrosive nature that it creates, I go beyond the politics of the United States and I look at our nation state adversaries like Iran, Russia, and China and their influence on social media to keep this negative discourse going. And I think this is a much bigger issue than we're actually admitting that it is in here.
▶ 2:18:45I want to tie this together to something that's very pertinent that's going to happen this week here in Congress where the American people are going to see the book end of what's going on. We are going to attempt to pass the Save America Act, okay? Which requires document documentary proof of US citizenship to register to vote. It imposes photo ID requirements to vote and it penalizes officials who do not enforce these requirements.
▶ 2:19:13And you won't see you won't see most of these folks over here on the other side that are demonizing you guys right now. You will not see them support it. So they let millions and millions of illegal aliens into the country. They set up these sanctuary cities so you can't go enforce these federal laws that are on the books that Congress has passed. And now they won't vote to stop these illegals from voting in our elections.
▶ 2:19:37If you if if the American people don't understand what this whole thing is about, it's about one word and it always has been and that is power. They want power and they need these illegals to vote in our elections. That's why they don't care about the fraud either because they need those votes as well. Thank you. I yield
▶ 2:19:57Gentleman yields back. I now recognize the gentle lady from Illinois, Miss Ramirez, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 2:20:04Thank you, chairman. My mother, a Guatemalan immigrant and an American, taught me that I have the responsibility to look evil in the eye and to fight it Mr. Lion, Mr. Scott, Mr. Edllo, you have used your power to perpetrate great evil, and it's about time you answer this committee for the lawlessness that you've empowered and defended in your testimony. Mr.
▶ 2:20:30Lions, I I want to start with you and I want to talk about ICE because under your leadership, ICE has shot and killed Sylvio Viegas Gonzalez and Renee Gur, violated nearly 100 court orders in January alone. You've used banned choke holds in more than 40 cases, engaged in warrantless arrests despite of a consent decree, and you use children as bait to put 3,800 children in detention.
▶ 2:20:59You created traps for people at immigration court who were following the law and doing it the legal way. And you broke the law by entering to people's homes without a judicial warrant in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Now, let's talk about you, Mr. Scott, and CBP next.
▶ 2:21:16Under your leadership, CBP has attempted to execute Marimar Martinez, shooting her five and not releasing the footage that you should release so that we can see the evidence.
▶ 2:21:30murdered Alex Prey, used chemical agents dozens of times in Chicago after a judge ordered you to stop, conducted warrantless surveillance and racial profiling, and acted with total disrespect and disregard for the law while engaging in roving patrols, plate switching, dangerous traffic maneuvers, and observer intimidation. Again, criminals act with that total disregard for the law, and we continue to see it.
▶ 2:21:59You would both have us talk about respect for your mission and your agents, but your agencies are unaccountable paramilitary forces. And I have just as much respect for you as I do for the last white men who put on masks to terrorize communities of color. I have no respect for the inheritors of the clanhood and the slave patrol. Those activities were immoral then and criminal and so are yours. And that brings me to you, Mr. Mr.
▶ 2:22:27Edllo and truly USCIS is the most disappointing part of this whole panel for me. Mr. Edllo, let me ask you a question. Is USCIS's mission to uphold America's promise as a nation of welcome and possibility with fairness, integrity, and respect for all we serve? Yes or no? Is that the mission,
▶ 2:22:52Congresswoman? The mission is to administer the lawful immigration. So, let me move on. So, it is not uh for the possibility of fairness, integrity, and respect. I get that. I want to tell you about Mr. about Steven, my constituent, Mr. Edllo. Steven is a 14-year-old with autism who is seeking asylum. This child has spent 60 days in detention center after he was detained with his dad at a Let me ask you this.
▶ 2:23:19What kind of agency would strip asylum protections from children, even those with pending asylum claims and deport minors without due process? You don't have to answer that. It's your agency, Mr. Edllo. You are doing that to Stephen, my constituent, an eighth grader. You have abandoned the mission and allowed USCIS to become a tool in DHS's abusive enforcement apparatus. Mr. Erlo, it is shameful to see what USCIS has become.
▶ 2:23:49As I've said before, DHS, ICE, and C, CBP, they're not really rogue. Congress designed DHS to violate our rights under the pretense of securing our safety. I'm going to say it loud and clear, and I'm proud to stand by what I say. DHS cannot be reformed. It must be dismantled and something new must take its place.
▶ 2:24:14Because if we let DHS persist, it will continue to be a weapon that can be pointed at anyone the government considers the public enemy. And let me tell you, fascism always requires a public enemy. But the power of the people is stronger than the weapons they would wield against us. So Mr. Lions, Mr. Scott, Mr. Edllo, you have weaponized the government. You have supported a fascist enterprise at the expense of our constitutional rights. You have violated the law.
▶ 2:24:45But let me remind you, you will not always be in power. One day, you will be held accountable for your role in this dark moment in America and our nation's history. I guarantee it. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentle lady yields back. As I said, uh the issues we're debating here are important ones that members feel deeply about. While vigorous disagreement is part of the legislative process, members are reminded that we must adhere to established standards of decorum and debate.
▶ 2:25:13Witnesses are here today voluntarily and I will continue to remind members that while oversight is important, aggressively attacking witnesses, personally is inappropriate and not in keeping with the best traditions of our committee. And I now recognize the gentleman from uh Oklahoma, Mr. Pen, for five minutes of
▶ 2:25:32Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses. I want to start with a display uh over my shoulders. And this is something that is not specific only to Oklahoma. This is something that every member of this committee, if you will go to the DHS website, every constituent of every member of Congress, if you're curious of really the dark I want you to go to the DHS website and I want you to look at those not far from where you live, moms and dads, the arrest of
▶ 2:26:02illegal aliens who were praying on minors just because of a really intentional act by Kate Bryan on my staff to go a couple of weeks ago And look just in eastern Oklahoma on the right side of me here. Just in eastern Oklahoma, I represent almost all the entirety of eastern Oklahoma. These are just the the individuals heinous acts to include those with children.
▶ 2:26:25And yet I want to read you in a wider to my left over here what is happening in the state of Oklahoma. This person was picked up. Angel Nick, sexual exploitation of a minor. Written Andrew, mal malleation of a minor. Chantruding, child fondling. Felosano Garcia, enticement of a minor. Katano Lopez, statutory rape. Rosmo Ailla, rape and lude acts with a minor.
▶ 2:26:55So for everyone who is in short-term memory, it's the way things operate in the court of public opinion. Everyone is looking and you're forgetting the conversations you were having two and three years ago.
▶ 2:27:09If you had teenage kiddos wanting to go outside of your home and you knew that they were going to go to Dallas, Texas or some city and you knew that you had to have a conversation with them with what was happening, the 15 million you knew were in the country illegally, that you had no idea what the what they would be doing, who would they be be praying upon? And moms and dads, don't you feel just a little bit safer if we're going to be gut level honest? That's the re the realization of what the generational opportunity this administration has afforded this country.
▶ 2:27:39It's the ability to feel safe over the madness of opening the border for that four-year period that allowed 15 million people. You don't know where they came from. You don't know their background. You don't know their history. And this that is occurring right now is designed to make sure we have law and order in this country. If you do not have law and order, you don't have prosperity.
▶ 2:28:04So to to all those who are secondguessing the the reactionary moments to the law enforcement who have to respond in real the quarterback who's questions Monday is questioned Monday morning because he's facing the 300p defensive lineman. It's easy to do that. But law enforcement walks out of their home every day and is faced with life or death questions.
▶ 2:28:28And we have to understand they are the ones who are affording us the opportunity for our children to feel safe against these that are in your backyard. It's not just in the north. It's not just in in in Minneapolis. It's not just in Minnesota. They're in every state in the country. Go to the Department of Homeland Security website and Google your area and look at who's being picked up in your backyard. That's how we reenter this conversation to I want your children protected.
▶ 2:28:58I am grateful for this president who wants your children protected and an The same playbook is happening now to create chaos and take your the eye off the the the real goal which is to secure our communities to get back to back to a place of safety. Mr. lines. Can you describe because of not allowing these people to stay in jails, these sanctuary cities are letting them go, thousands released from jail because they will not cooperate with ICE.
▶ 2:29:26And when ICE tries to execute a detainer, ask them to hold a criminal illegal alien for potential deportation. How's this compared with other non sanctuary city regions in the
▶ 2:29:38Sir, it's night and day. With the jurisdictions that we do have cooperation, we're able to take that individual in a safe, secure environment. Not only is a safe secure environment for the officers and agents, but it's also for the individual and the community because we only need one to two officers to make that arrest where now we're historically five or six. We need up to 15.
▶ 2:29:57Um, from what you've seen in terms of protest in Minnesota and elsewhere, do you get the sense these agitators are trying to pro provoke your agents into
▶ 2:30:05Yes, sir.
▶ 2:30:05Can you expound upon that? We've seen multiple times and unfortunately we saw like the shooting in Dallas where agitated groups use apps to identify the location of ICE officers sometimes prior to even the law enforcement action begins and sometimes using those apps put the officers and as well as other federal agencies and local agencies with them in danger because it exposes the fact where a law enforcement operation is happening.
▶ 2:30:28Mr. Scott, can you describe how the 300,000 children, the UAC's, unaccompanied minors, that we're trying to find them, how these protests are stopping us from being able to recover
▶ 2:30:38Gentleman will respond in writing to that question. Um, I now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Kennedy, for 5 minutes.
▶ 2:30:45Thank you, Mr. Lines. Your written testimony today does not make one single mention of Renee Nicole Good or Alex Prey. Not one. Two American citizens have been murdered at the hands of your agency and you have deliberately chosen under oath before Congress to ignore these tragedies. And so today in my five minutes, I look forward to getting the American people some answers and some accountability that I believe they deserve. Mr.
▶ 2:31:14Lions, I have some simple yes or no questions. Do do you believe the US Constitution provides due process for everyone in this country? Do you believe American citizens have the right to protest freely without being assaulted or killed by our
▶ 2:31:34Do you believe there should be an independent investigation when an innocent person is killed by a law enforcement agency in this country?
▶ 2:31:42Do you believe your agency has a legal obligation to follow court orders?
▶ 2:31:49Well, Mr. lines, you have a very strange way of showing it with a federal judge finding that your agency is in violation of 96 orders in one month alone. And that's just Minneapolis, Minnesota. This administration and the agencies represented before us have shown a complete and utter disregard for the law and the Constitution.
▶ 2:32:13Renee Nicole Good and Alex Prey, both American citizens, both dead at the hands of federal Alex Prey was a VA ICU nurse who dedicated his life to healing people, healing veterans. I worked as an occupational therapist for over a decade. In that video that we've all seen, it was Alex Prey who was doing what health care workers do, what nurses do.
▶ 2:32:44They help people. Help people who are hurting. Help people who are in trouble. In this case, helping a fellow peaceful protester who was shoved to the ground right before your agents shot him 10 And we're now learning that FBI Director Cash Patel stopped the US Attorney's Office in Minnesota from investigating the death of Miss Good because of fear that an investigation would contradict President
▶ 2:33:14Trump's falsehoods that she violently, willfully, and viciously ran down an agent. Six federal prosecutors rather than participate in a cover up. Christine Gnome, Steven Miller, and you, Mr. lions have appointed yourselves judge, jury, and executioner. Allowing American citizens to be gunned down in our streets with impunity. We all know the president is a liar. He sold snake oil his entire life.
▶ 2:33:44But he can't tell us and the American people that we did not see with our own eyes what we saw in that video. Two Americans shot dead in cold blood. The American people aren't stupid like he thinks we are. The fact that our government murders American citizens, lies about it, and then refuses to investigate or seek justice is beyond abhorrent. It's Mr.
▶ 2:34:12Lions, in America, we shouldn't have secret police. We shouldn't have masked government agents executing citizens in the streets. The Constitution does not give your agency the right to hide their faces while they kill Americans. Will you commit yes or no to immediately unmasking every agent conducting immigration enforcement and requiring them to wear standard uniforms with identifiable badges? No.
▶ 2:34:41Well, that's a sad response. Your answer is completely unacceptable. People who are proud of what they do aren't hiding their identity. We're a nation of laws and you, your boss, Secretary Gnome, and Donald Trump are not above the law. The American people are angry and they're demanding accountability and justice from those giving the orders. Mr. Lions, yes or no? Do you believe that Secretary Gnome should resign?
▶ 2:35:12I'm not going to comment on that, sir. So, you're going to look the families of Renee Nicole Good and Alex Prey in the eye and tell them Secretary Gnome should keep her job after their loved ones were Sir, the loss of any life is unacceptable. In the heart, my heart prayers and thoughts go out to anyone who tragically losing his life, especially a child since I've suffered personal loss in my life. But I'm not going to comment on ongoing
▶ 2:35:41Well, Mr. lines. The American people are watching. Your unwillingness to demand accountability from your own leadership speaks volumes to American citizens.
▶ 2:35:49Gentlemen's time is expired.
▶ 2:35:51The American people deserve
▶ 2:35:52time is expired. It is a members are reminded that we must adhere to established standards of decorum and debate. It is a clear violation of the rules of the house to make statements that might be personally offensive to the president or the vice president of the United States. I now recognize a gentle lady from South Carolina, Miss Biggs, for five minutes of questions. Thank you, Chairman Garberino, and thank you to our witnesses.
▶ 2:36:15Um, a big thank you for what you do each and every day to secure our border and to carry out the will of the American people. You know, this Trump administration and the CBP and ICE, they've done a stellar job of securing our border. And we can just look at the numbers. They tell the facts. Crossings are down from a high of over 300,000 a month under President Biden to around 10,000 a month under President Trump.
▶ 2:36:46However, the lack border policies of the Democrats have flooded our country with tens of millions of illegal immigrants. This invasion was facilitated by sanctuary cities.
▶ 2:37:00Most cities will hand over criminal alien aliens with a deportation order to ICE, but sanctuary cities refuse to do so of often releasing them back into the public around our communities, our children, and making it Cities like Minianapolis pick and choose which laws they want to enforce.
▶ 2:37:24And by doing that, they place our federal law enforcement in danger, forcing ICE agents to make arrests out in public, something that could be avoided if sanctuary cities simply cooperated with the federal law. At the same time, radical leftists have stirred hysteria over routine immigration enforcement, calling immigration officers the secret police, and even the Gustavo. Let me be very clear.
▶ 2:37:53This rhetoric has Between 2024 and 2025, we saw a more than 16,000% increase in threats of assault against immigration officers and over 8,000% spike in death threats targeting those who enforce our laws. In Minnesota alone, there have been over 60 threats and 20 assaults to ICE officers.
▶ 2:38:22Just think about that. If you were going to work every day and had to deal with that, sanctuary cities, they choose criminals over citizens. My bill, the Mobilizing Against Sanctuary Cities Act, would cut off every single federal dollar to any city that helps illegals instead of law Mr. Lions, my question is to you.
▶ 2:38:48Why should taxpayers fund far-left politicians who put your agents at risk?
▶ 2:38:57Ma'am, unfortunately, what we've seen over and over is just the fact that there's so much rhetoric out there against the work the men and women of ICE have done. Again, going back in my career. Um, this is my second decade, multiple administrations, and it's never been like this. And the actual public safety impact that the men and white men and women of ICE do every day is significant. and it should still be true for all 50 states.
▶ 2:39:21Thank you. So, I want to take it a little closer to home. What's happening in my district, the third district of South Carolina, it should alarm every single individual. These are real crimes committed by individuals illegally in our country, right here in our communities, confirmed by the Department of Homeland Security. We heard a little bit from my colleagues earlier. So, let me just give you a few of the worst.
▶ 2:39:48Vehicular homicide, child cruelty, and indecent exposure, armed robbery, assaulting a police officer with a weapon, and making terrorist threats. And I could go on and on. We're also seeing convictions for drug trafficking, burglary, forgery, repeated illegal re-entry, and more and more. And this is what I consider chaos. And it's the direct result of open border policies that put American lives at risk.
▶ 2:40:18But amid all of this, we're seeing true heroes step up. Our federal immigration officers are on the front lines of securing safety and prosperity for us and for our children. They've been given a difficult task, but they are up they are up to the job and certainly meeting the demands. We stand behind our immigration officers and their historic mission to restore the rule of law to the United States.
▶ 2:40:46And right here at home, our local law enforcement is rising to meet the challenge. And I'm very grateful to them. So just look at Anderson County Sheriff's Department, which you will see in the photo behind me, which recently seized 180 pounds of cocaine. That's 180 pounds of deadly drugs that will never reach our streets thanks to the courage and commitment. So I I just want to say thank you and I'm grateful for the job that you do.
▶ 2:41:17Gentle lady yields back. I now recognize the gentle lady from New Jersey, Miss MacGyver, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 2:41:24Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ranking member. Mr. Lions, as the senior official lead in ICE enforcement, much of today's scrutiny falls on you, and it should. You have seen repeatedly, we have seen repeatedly that Republicans, Trump administration, its DHS, and your agency will do absolutely anything to avoid answering for your actions.
▶ 2:41:46When I showed up to inspect Delaney Hall, a private prison that you contract with, ICE tried not to give us an oversight tour. Then instead of taking accountability for ISIS attempts to keep us from seeing this facility's conditions to know if people's basic rights were being upheld, this administration is doing all they can to try to put me in prison for 17 years. When ICE shot and killed Renee Good, Christy Gnome called her a domestic terrorist.
▶ 2:42:16When Alex Prey, you all tried to tell us he was threatening officers with a gun, but all we saw was a phone. This administration's clear lives fell apart, not because someone had a come to Jesus moment, but because we saw these murders from every angle. You are only here because public outrage has become so unavoidable. You are here, Mr. Lions, because white people are being are getting shot in the face and chest when the cameras are rolling.
▶ 2:42:45Because now my Republican colleagues care about optics. But when Keith Porter Jr., where a black American citizen, a son, a father, and a man loved by many was killed by an offduty ICE agent on New Year's Eve. There were no hearings. So, this is for him today. In my district, Jean Wilson Brutus, a Haitian immigrant, a beloved family man, died within within 24 hours of being in ICE custody.
▶ 2:43:13He is just one of more than 30 people who have died in ICE custody last year. This is for all of them. Every human being your rogue outofc control agency has hurt, hunted down, imprisoned, killed, and continue to hold hostage even after they have agreed to be deported. We know this administration doesn't care about protecting people or sparing lives. We all see so plainly what you are doing.
▶ 2:43:42What you have been doing to black and brown folks, immigrants, people silenced in the shadows now in broad daylight to people peacefully rejecting your cruel agenda in the streets, which is their right to do. This is the despicable but predictable result of an agency that laughs at oversight, receives billions to deploy lethal force on our neighborhoods and seems to believe that they are above the law and should be without accountability.
▶ 2:44:12This administration believes it can act first, explain later, or hell never never explained at all. As we see here today, you all seem to think you are the highest power who decides which people deserve dignity, protection, due process, and due process. But you are wrong. We are here for answers. We are here for accountability. And we are here because people are dying. Let me repeat that. People are dying and you don't seem to care.
▶ 2:44:42So, Mr. Lions. I've heard my colleagues ask many questions over and over again and you cannot answer them. So, let me ask you some questions that you may be able to answer. Mr. Lions, do you consider yourself a religious man?
▶ 2:44:56Yes, ma'am.
▶ 2:44:57Oh, yes. Okay. Well, how do you think judgment day will work for you with so much blood on your hands?
▶ 2:45:04I'm not going to entertain that
▶ 2:45:06Okay. Of course not. Do you think you're going to hell, Mr. Lions?
▶ 2:45:09I'm not going to enter.
▶ 2:45:10Of course not. How many governor?
▶ 2:45:12The gentle lady will suspend. The gentle lady will suspend.
▶ 2:45:15as I a gentle lady will suspend. As I said, the issues we're debating here are important to ones that members feel deeply about.
▶ 2:45:22While vigorous disagreement is part of the legislative process, members are reminded that we must adhere to established standards of decorum and debate. The witnesses are here voluntarily. And I will continue remind continue to remind members that while oversight is important, aggressively attacking those witnesses personally is inappropriate and not in keeping with the traditions of our committee.
▶ 2:45:43Mr. Chairman, I'm just asking a question. You all you guys are always talking about religion here in the Bible. I mean, it's okay for me to ask a question, right? But let me continue on. I got your notes.
▶ 2:45:53That's all right. The gentle lady
▶ 2:45:54too much. Let me get back to my question, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I appreciate you. How many government agency, Mr. lines are you aware of that routinely kill American cit citizens and still get funding?
▶ 2:46:05Ma'am, I'm not going to entertain that. I'm about Exactly. Once again, questions that you cannot answer. And that is exactly why, Mr. Chairman, and to this committee, to my colleagues, and to my colleagues across the aisle, this is exactly why we should not be funding this agency. The people are watching you. They are watching you. And this is why we need to abolish ICE. With that, I yield back. Thank you kindly. Gentle lady yields back. I now recognize the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Evans, for five minutes of
▶ 2:46:35Thank you, Mr. Chairman, ranking member for this important hearing. This past year has been historic for national security thanks to the joint work between the agencies present today and our Republican colleagues. The big beautiful bill unlocked billions of dollars to finally secure the border and deliver muchneeded support for law enforcement officials who keep us safe every day, slashing things like the scourge of overdose deaths that claimed approximately 400,000 lives under the previous administration.
▶ 2:47:02And this is despite increasing violence against federal officers, which has been inspired by fear-mongering from the Democrats. As [snorts] a soldier for 12 years, as a cop for 10 years, and as the only Latino in Colorado's delegation, it's been my long-standing position that with a secure border, we must use all available resources to target the worst of the worst. Violent offenders like murderers and rapists and so-called nonviolent like drug dealers and thieves and child porn producers. Get the gangsters, not the grandmas.
▶ 2:47:32Director Lions, is ISIS's priority the apprehension and removal of criminal non-citizens rather than the broader population of illegally present
▶ 2:47:42Yes, sir. ISIS's continued focus is on the criminal aliens that are in our
▶ 2:47:49Thank you. Unfortunately, Democrats in my state in Colorado champion softon crime sanctuary policies at the state level and in cities like Denver, which borders my district. These policies not only impede federal investigations that target cartels, gangbangers, uh, entities like Trenagua, MS-13, the Sinaloa cartel, but they also endanger our communities by releasing dangerous criminals back into the streets who continue to traffic drugs, steal cars, intimidate families, and recruit children.
▶ 2:48:18In fact, fentanyl overdose rates in Denver are going up in 2025. It's common sense that when local or state police arrest an individual for a crime, those officers should be able to obtain basic information about the arresty. And those state and local officers should then be uh allowed to share information with federal law enforcement to communicate threats, honor detainer requests, and work together to ensure national security and public safety.
▶ 2:48:47So, Director Lions, can you please explain how ICE works around sanctuary policies to go after the worst of the worst? And do these sanctuary policies that release criminals back into the community increase or decrease ISIS's presence in the community and the temperature of the interactions that ICE has with the community?
▶ 2:49:09Sir, when we deal with sanctuary jurisdictions, we do have to have more law enforcement officers on the street. Like like I said earlier in my testimony, we'd much rather have the chance to take a aggravated felon, repeat DUI offender into custody at a prison, local jail, or some type of lock up environment where it's safer for my officers and for not only the individual, but that community as well. And then given the opportunity to take that person into custody before that person can reaffend.
▶ 2:49:39And fortunately, as a field office director, when I ran the Boston field office, we saw too many times that we placed a detainer on a sexual assault individual who just went out later after the detainer was dropped to rape again. And that is why we need cooperation at all levels, especially the local and
▶ 2:49:56Thank you. Uh, Director Lions, my district, 40% Hispanic, it's full of successful business owners and strong immigrant families. Unfortunately, uh, my colleagues across the aisle are fanning the flames of fear for their own political gain in my Hispanic communities, scaring people over events that haven't happened in my district.
▶ 2:50:16So, I'd like for you for just a brief moment to speak directly to my constituents who are legally present in the US, not criminals, but who are fearful of being searched or detained via immigration efforts. Should they fear ICE? And what policies does ICE have to prevent the seizure of people with legal status?
▶ 2:50:35Sir, ICE officers and special agents are trained in the immigration nationality. So, anyone that is here legally or lawfully or US citizen should not be concerned about being deported or detained. Unfortunately, many times there are individuals that are with criminal legal aliens and sir, as you being a former law enforcement officer, you know, you arrive on a scene, you ID everyone in that case. If you know if we're looking for an individual and someone is here present in the country legally, then we're going to take action.
▶ 2:51:04We're not going to turn a blind eye no more. But someone that's in the country lawfully should not feel scared to walk down the street driving.
▶ 2:51:12Thank you. Sorry. Sorry. I got 23 seconds left. Have one thing that I want to ask. As a cop, uh, if I had an arrest warrant, there's a difference between arrest warrants and search warrants. If I had an arrest warrant for an individual and I thought they were in the house or if I was assisting social services with a child removal, I still had to have an arrest warrant to go in the house. So, I have many questions about the memo saying that you don't need a warrant to go into the house. Will you commit with me uh at a later date to discuss this?
▶ 2:51:37100%. Sir, I look forward to sitting down and discussing that.
▶ 2:51:39Yield back.
▶ 2:51:41Gentlemen yields. Gentleman yields back. I now recognize the gentle lady from Texas, Miss Johnson, for five minutes of
▶ 2:51:47Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to uh Mr. Lions, I wanted to just follow up on um a statement that you just made, which is that if you're here legally and lawfully, you should not worry. I think the problem is there are many, many immigrants that are here legally and lawfully that are very worried because they have been snatched off the streets. They have had their face beat in by ICE agents. They've been yanked out of their car.
▶ 2:52:15they've been driven around and harassed. And so that is, I think, at the end of the day, you know, the the key nut of the crux here, which is that unfortunately there is not just this focus on criminals and that people who are here in legal status. And for example, I have an I have an example of this that I'd like to highlight for you.
▶ 2:52:36in back in October, Mahar Terabishi, a North Texas resident who was allowed to be in this country um and had was under a supervision order to check in on an annual basis since 2008 and did that because he had an adult disabled son. And so he was here working as an IT consultant and was here in legal process to take care of his adult legal son. He went to check into his appointment.
▶ 2:53:02It so happened to be at the time that the Dallas ICE office was closed due to the shooting and so he was not able to check in. When he went back to check in, he was immediately snatched up and detained because he missed his appointment that was unavoidable because the office was closed. He told everyone here was he in legal status. He had been here since 2008 and he had an adult disabled son that would likely pass away if he was not released. He was not released. His son died.
▶ 2:53:30And then to complicate it, he was not allowed to go and attend the funeral and he's still in detention in the Blue Bonnet facility in He is not a criminal. He has no criminal history. He was here legally. That is an unacceptable outcome. And I would like to know if you are willing to review his case and help us get his release because he should not be in the Blue Bonnet detention facility under these facts.
▶ 2:53:55Yes, ma'am. We were I'm committed to reviewing that case for you.
▶ 2:53:57I appreciate that. The other issue that I am really very concerned about is these warrantless entries into people's homes. It is a problem that is of epic proportion. There was just recently yesterday um circulation um a Latino family ICE just broke into their home without a warrant.
▶ 2:54:20And and there was an example where they arrested a man in his pajamas who had every right to be here as a US citizen but wrongfully snatched out in the freezing cold without a warrant to do so. The problem that we're having, nobody wants to see attacks on ICE agents, sir.
▶ 2:54:35But this is something I have brought up in this committee time and time again, which is unfortunately under your leadership and under Secretary Gnome's leadership, this rogue brutality that ICE agents are inflicting upon the people of this country is not being reigned in. It's not being the the agents who are abusing their power are not being held accountable. I'm sure that there are many many fine agents who are doing everything they can to exercise their duty lawfully.
▶ 2:55:04But the problem is there are agents who are not and the power that they have is gone to their head and they use that power in violation of many people's direct constitutional rights.
▶ 2:55:17And what you're seeing in this country is the fact that your agency you're not it's not And rather than saying yes, we're going to take steps to keep these people who are abusing their power and who are terrorizing citizens of this country wrongfully that we're going to hold them account rather than have that's what we want to see. You're doubling down on that we're only going after criminals which is in your own comments.
▶ 2:55:43You said that you had 397 I think that's right arrests but only 8700 of them were suspected gang members or known suspected terrorists. That's 2%. And the problem is we can't terrorize of the people in this country that have been wrongfully detained for 2%. That's that's not how the system works and that is not okay. And so we have to do a better job.
▶ 2:56:13And so what what procedures are you putting in place to hold agents accountable who clearly have a hot trigger and who here who clearly abuse their authority because someone has a phone and a whistle. Ma'am, ICE does have the Office of Professional Responsibility. It's a robust internal investigation agency that does investigate allegations of special agent or deportation officer misconduct. And we do take everyone seriously and we do investigate those.
▶ 2:56:43Well, those are not being republic publicly reported and so that's where there's a huge breach of the public trust because there does not appear to be any accountability. Sir,
▶ 2:56:51thank you and I'll yield back.
▶ 2:56:52Gentle lady yields back. I now recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. McKenzie, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 2:56:59Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate all of our testifiers being here today. Before I begin, I would like to thank all of our members of law enforcement across the country who work every day to keep our communities safe and also to their families that sacrifice. We know that it's a challenging job and the environment is made particularly challenging uh by those who want to oppose our law enforcement from carrying out their lawful duties to keep everybody in our country and our community safe.
▶ 2:57:27Uh, as was discussed earlier, there are a couple areas though where I think it's appropriate to discuss potential reforms and the way that we can improve our government operations. DHS guidance indicates that ICE does not arrest or detain US citizens. On the other hand, social media is full of reports and accusations that this is occurring. As you know, any accusation that an American citizen's rights are violated is very serious. Can you clarify, Mr.
▶ 2:57:55lions whether this is something that it occurs and what are the circumstances where a US citizen might be detained and what steps does ICE take to prevent
▶ 2:58:06Yes sir, I appreciate the question. Well, unfortunately there's a misnomer that ICE is just a civil enforcement agency and that's completely wrong. ICE enforces over 400 criminal statutes as well. special agents, especially with the homeland security investigations, they're consistently out there doing human trafficking cases, drug cases, uh terrorism cases, and we do encounter US citizens, and those who do commit federal crimes are arrested.
▶ 2:58:32But under Title 8, no US citizen is subject to civil immigration enforcement, and that just doesn't happen. There are multiple safeguards in that way, and if if a US citizen is detained in the course of an immigration investigation, they're quickly released. We don't take action on American citizens.
▶ 2:58:49If it does occur where a US citizen is detained during the course of another investigation, how is that documented and conveyed to the public about the fact that this did occur and what the circumstances around that were?
▶ 2:59:02So sir, when it uh if you say it's a separate investigation, if it comes to a criminal case, obviously um a lot of those are under seal or ongoing investigations. We won't expose that, but we we're transparent in the case when it comes to any US citizen that's detained in any law enforcement operations that's subsequently arrested.
▶ 2:59:21I appreciate that. I think greater transparency could be beneficial for both the American public and everybody involved here if we clearly articulate what occurred in many of these instances. I've seen it myself when I'm looking into local issues in our community. There are often times two sides to the story and when it is actually uh conveyed what did occur and why it occurred uh there is a greater understanding in our local community of the law enforcement activities that occurred.
▶ 2:59:47The second thing I would like to hit on is jurisdictions which are sometimes referred to sanctuary cities. Not a clear definition as we all know uh but local authorities in our community. We have Northampton County, which does not honor ICE detainer requests for 48 hours and properly convey to ICE and law enforcement about the release of that when that may occur or even during that detainer period allow ICE
▶ 3:00:17to come onto their property to make an arrest in a secure facility. Obviously, that leaves our community in a vulnerable position. Uh, in our case, members of Trenda Aragua, domestic abusers have been released onto the street and ICE had to stake out that location, making the arrests in an unsecure uh way out in the local community. From your perspective, how does this dynamic affect public safety and day-to-day operations?
▶ 3:00:43And where or how can we change and improve the coordination between ICE and state and local partners?
▶ 3:00:51Thank you, sir. Again, I know what I would say is just very basic communication would go a long way for public safety. You know, ICE respects and abides by state and municipality laws or well, where sometimes you can't hold for any reasons, but a simple phone call to let us know that that individual is going to be released or if that individual is released, sharing that biographical data with us will go a long way because the last thing we want is a criminal legal alien to go back into the community.
▶ 3:01:19And more often than not, they pray upon other migrants who are coming here for a better life. Yet that they can hide in plain sight because these sanctuary jurisdictions won't just pick up a phone, notify ICE that they're being relisted.
▶ 3:01:32Well, I appreciate that. I think we want full cooperation between our local law enforcement and federal agents when they are trying to do their job. If somebody is on a detainer, they should be allowed onto that property given the ability within that detainer window to make a lawful arrest. I think it would go a long way to keeping our community safe. I would like to thank all of you again for being here. The fact that you are here and present for this kind of testimony, I think brings greater accountability and increases the ability for us to make reforms in Congress. Thank you again.
▶ 3:02:02Gentleman yields back. I now recognize the gentle lady from New Jersey, Miss Poe, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 3:02:07Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to our ranking member Thompson. Um, gentlemen, thank you so very much for being here. Let me just be clear. Secretary Gnome must step down or be impeached by the House. Period. The lawlessness, the cruelty, the outright viciousness that she has created has destroyed an agency whose very mission is to protect our country.
▶ 3:02:36Under Gnome's leadership, congressional oversight is ignored. Detention visits are blocked. due process is ignored [clears throat] and laws are broken without thought. This is the first time any of you have testified before our committee. It took two American uh citizens being murdered in cold blood to get you to show up. ICE raided schools, churches, and hospitals.
▶ 3:03:06And let's not forget five-year-old Liam Kamos. You used him as a bait and then detained him despite his father's legally his father legally seeking asylum. Liam is the face of your cruelty. My district is one of the most ethic ethnically diverse in America. Our diversity is our strength. But somehow you all seem to believe it's a weakness.
▶ 3:03:36Last fall, the Supreme Court green lit ISIS's ability to yank people off the street based on one uh one thing such as quote the type of work one does, speaking Spanish or speaking with an accent and their appar and their apparent race or ethnicity. Mr. Lions, I speak Spanish.
▶ 3:04:00If I wasn't wearing any uh if I wasn't wearing my member pin, would me being a Latina or be or speaking Spanish be enough for ICE agents to harass me or shove me into one of your unmarked cars?
▶ 3:04:16No, ma'am.
▶ 3:04:17I speak for all of us when I say that I think we know the real answer to this. These are the realities traumatizing my We know that ICE is transferring uh New Jersey detainees to other states like Texas, ripping them from their families and leaving them unable to challenge their detention. Mr. Ice, yes or I'm sorry, Mr. Lions? Yes or no?
▶ 3:04:48Will you will you provide us with a list of people ICE has transferred from New Jersey to other states so that I can inform their families where they are?
▶ 3:04:58Yes, ma'am. These are people like my constituent Lee uh Lee Cow uh uh Cordia whose ICE shipped to Texas and continues to detain uh to detain despite despite two judicial orders compelling her release.
▶ 3:05:22Over the weekend, Leeca was hospitalized for o uh for 72 hours while while her family had no idea where she was at, nor was the nor the status of her condition. Mr. Lions, would you be willing to to look into this to make sure to release my constituent? Why have we failed? Why have you failed to inform her family where she was sent and the status of her condition?
▶ 3:05:53When will she be freed?
▶ 3:05:56Yes, ma'am. You have my commitment that I'll look into that.
▶ 3:05:58Thank you. Now, soon, Mr. Lions and all of you. My district will host the World Cup matches and hundreds of thousands of visitors will come. visitors confident confidence is plun plumbering and jeopardizing the World Cup. Mr.
▶ 3:06:18Lion, will ICE commit will you commit to ensure that pausing its operations and raise at FIFA matches and other FIFA sanctioned public events?
▶ 3:06:32Ma'am, ICE specifically homeland security investigations is a key part of the overall security apparatus for the World Cup. We're dedicated to securing that operation and we're dedicated to the security of all our participants as well as visitors.
▶ 3:06:45You realize that if they feel that they're going to be wrongfully incarcerated or wrongfully pulled out, that's going to hurt this entire process. You I hope you realize that.
▶ 3:06:58Yes, ma'am. And ICE is dedicated to ensuring that everyone that visits their facilities will have a safe and secure event. Without these uh asurances, our local communities and national reputations will indeed be suffered. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 3:07:13Gentle lady yields back. I now recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Not for five minutes of questions.
▶ 3:07:18Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Using the trope, uh, diversity is our strength as an excuse for lawlessness is unbelievably naive and dangerous. Nobody in this room would say that diversity is a bad thing. Lawlessness is a bad thing. Law and order is much more of our strength than open border policies that welcomes anybody with no vetting.
▶ 3:07:39And when you get down to the nuts and bolts of this issue, we would not be having this hearing if the Democrats attacked illegal immigration with the same vigor that they're attacking law enforcement and the men at this table. That's a fact. And it's it's worth noting that the dishonesty in framing these issu these issues has been unbelievably obvious. It's been consistent. And just to as a as an anecdote, Mr. Lions, was Liam used as bait by your agency?
▶ 3:08:08No, sir. Actually, law enforcement officers took care of the child after the the father abandoned him at a
▶ 3:08:13walk us through what that means.
▶ 3:08:15So, sir, the individual that was driving that vehicle with Liam was in fled from the scene from the officers. Officers uh he was obviously upset. We comforted him. They officers actually placed him in one of our vehicles, played his favorite song, favorite music. Then they took him to McDonald's. You all got him So you all did not abduct him. You did not use him as bait. Any characterization of that is a lie. And it has been repeated over and over by the Democrats to frame your agency.
▶ 3:08:43You know, it's worth noting again that the Democrats fought to prevent any vetting of 20 million illegal immigrants into this country over the last four years. They attack agents rather than those who are assaulting agents today. They continually misframe what's happening in the ground. They continually malign the law enforcement officers who are providing legal structure to otherwise lawless landscapes in this country.
▶ 3:09:10And it's worth noting that there have been roughly 2 million people in the country who have been removed in the last year. Some voluntarily and then some by forced deportations. We've heard roughly about 25 cases of alleged abuse. Some of them, as I just as I just pointed out, are dishonestly framed. But let's do a favor to the Democratic side. Let's increase that number by by 1,000 times. 25,000 cases of alleged abuse or improper protocols.
▶ 3:09:40We're still we are still operating at roughly 99% proficiency. Given the scale of the problem, the scale of the solution that you all are operating under, your agents are doing a remarkable job. and I thank you. But one issue that I want to talk about is this idea of sanctuary policies. Sanctuary policies is not just a passive relinquishing effort. It's an active obstruction. Isn't that true, Mr.
▶ 3:10:10Yes, sir. And what I mean by that is when I say it's an active to be specific, there are st there are sanctuary states and cities that will release violent criminals rather than handing them over to pursuing federal law enforcement. Isn't that correct?
▶ 3:10:26That is correct, sir.
▶ 3:10:27I left the hearing a few moments ago just to find a quick example. Here's one right behind me. Just 30 hours ago, an illegal alien arrested for stabbing an American in the back. He was charged with attempted murder. He pled to a lesser offense. The feds wanted him, sought a detainer, and then rather than hold him for your agents pickup, he was released back into the streets of Maryland.
▶ 3:10:54That is not an unusual action from local hostile law enforcement, is it, Mr.
▶ 3:11:00No, sir. That's what we face every day. So, we've heard the Democrats complain that we're not getting the worst of the worst. But their sanctuary jurisdictions that control roughly 40% of this country's population will actively release sex predators, drug dealers, violent offenders rather than hand them over to you for deportation. And these are people who were already in custody. Am I correct, Mr. Lions?
▶ 3:11:26Yes, sir. The individuals were already deemed a public safety threat by local or state law enforcement. And then when they get a federal detainer, they will release them on the street rather than turn them over for deportation. Yes, sir. It's disgusting. Mr. Scott, I want to talk to you briefly. I'm running out of time. How many cities does your agency operate in?
▶ 3:11:46We operate nationwide.
▶ 3:11:48Why is it that there is so much tension in Minneapolis St. Paul right now?
▶ 3:11:52Because paid agitators are actively trying to stop law enforcement action. Without that, you wouldn't even have any idea most of these arrests were taking
▶ 3:12:00In many parts of the country, local law enforcement assists your efforts to bring legal structure to these lawless areas. Is that isn't that correct?
▶ 3:12:08That's correct.
▶ 3:12:09And when order is maintained, you can do your job peacefully. Correct.
▶ 3:12:12Correct. And all we've ever asked is for law enforcement to do their job, not
▶ 3:12:17In Minneapolis St. Paul, local law enforcement in some cases have been prohibited from maintaining order so you can do your job. Isn't that correct?
▶ 3:12:24Correct. Gentleman's time is fired.
▶ 3:12:27Thank you.
▶ 3:12:27I now recognize a gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Walkenshaw, for five
▶ 3:12:32Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Lions, your opening statement referenced the importance of protecting children, and I'm glad to hear your commitment to that. I want to focus on one of President Trump's mass deportation policies that the experts say harms children, child detention. In this administration, under your watch, ICE has booked nearly 4,000 children.
▶ 3:12:57In 1,000 of them have been held longer than the court-ordered 20-day limit. Recently, ProPublica obtained handwritten letters and drawings from children detained by ICE. These are letters from children describing what it feels like and what it does to them when the government locks them up. This is Ariana. She's 14 years old, detained for 45 days.
▶ 3:13:24Since I got to this center, all I feel is sadness and mostly depression. This is Mia, 7 years old. I don't want to be in this place. I want to go to my This is Scarlet, 17 years old. I feel very bored and overwhelmed because I am locked up. This is Gabby, 14 years old.
▶ 3:13:52I feel so much sadness and depression of not being able to leave. [snorts] This is Maria, 9 years old. Me and Dilly am not happy. Please get me out of here. This is a 12-year-old going to the doctor and the only thing they tell me is drink more water. The water here is what makes people sick.
▶ 3:14:21And this one got me, Mr. Lions, because this is a 5-year-old, Louise Annie. My son's five. He can't write many words, but he can communicate through drawings like this. This is a picture of Luis Annie's family. And you might be able to see that none of the faces are smiling. Child detention is not required by law. You know that it's not the only option available and it's not effective.
▶ 3:14:52We know that community-based alternatives can ensure compliance with proceedings without traumatizing these Yet you continue to detain and hold children for weeks or months, depriving them of school stability, leaving them afraid, sick, and confused.
▶ 3:15:17And one of the key reasons for your mass detention, including the detention of Liam and his father, is to pressure people to give up their legal opportunities and pathways to remaining in the United States. Liam's father was following the rules, following the legal process with a valid claim. Let me be clear.
▶ 3:15:39No child, not Liam Ramos, not Gabby, or any of these children should be used as pawns in Steven Miller's sick and twisted great replacement agenda. Mr. Lions, in 2025, the British Journal of Psychiatry analyzed all of the data on the impact of immigration detention on children's health. Have you read that study and analysis?
▶ 3:16:08No sir, I haven't.
▶ 3:16:09You're the director of the You are not familiar with that literature.
▶ 3:16:12No sir.
▶ 3:16:12You could tell me, I'm sure, chapter in verse on the tactics and the equipment that your agents use, military style equipment across the country in American cities. But you don't know anything about the literature of the impacts of your policies on children. You haven't read it.
▶ 3:16:28No, sir.
▶ 3:16:31The Flores agreement. And I sure you know, I'm sure you know that sets a 20-day limit on detaining children. You and the Trump administration are trying to terminate that agreement. How long would you like to hold children? 20 days, 40 days, 60 days, 100 days? What's the right number, Mr.
▶ 3:16:53So, we wouldn't like to hold any children. We would like to remove that family unit together safely and humanely and as quickly as possible.
▶ 3:17:00Thank you. Since you haven't read the literature, let me tell you what it says. Detention harms children. No No period, not 20, 40, 75 days that you're holding children can be deemed safe. All detention of children has adverse impacts and is profoundly Your policies are profoundly detrimental to children.
▶ 3:17:29I yield back. Gentleman yields back. I now recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Fong, for five minutes of questions.
▶ 3:17:37Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you all uh for he for those who are here testifying. Um, I want to thank you to you and your teams and your personnel for what you do. Uh, Commissioner Scott, you mentioned and you in your testimony, national security cannot exist without effective border security. Couldn't agree more. uh everyone on your teams are are doing tremendous work under difficult difficult conditions and I want to thank you all.
▶ 3:18:00Um I do want to ask and dive in a little deeper as a Californian uh on on the the dangers and the and the consequences of these sanctuary policies. Um Director Lions, um I was in the state legislature in 2017 uh when when uh sanctuary state policies were put in uh in California. I oppose SB54 uh because at the time and everything has proven to be true.
▶ 3:18:24It was outlined that the impact on on ICE and Border Patrol agents was that there would be reduced information and access agents would be conducting higher risk uh enforcement operations and that there would be operational constraints um when it comes to limiting cooperation between state and local uh law enforcement. I want um wanted to get your perspective, Director Lions, and I'll I'll I'll go to you uh uh uh Commissioner Scott as well.
▶ 3:18:49What can you give specifics on how um these sanctuary state policies impact your operations in in real time compared to non sanctuary operations? Well, sir, for ICE, what I would uh kind of I'll refer back to what we talked about earlier in my testimony, the fact that uh when state or local or county agencies don't cooperate with immigration customs enforcement, it forces us to go back into out to the community, which we don't want to do.
▶ 3:19:16It also increases the number of assets we have to put towards that arrest. Uh like I said earlier, I would much rather send one or two agents or officers to make that arrest in a safe, secure location rather than being out in the street. It's safer for everyone involved.
▶ 3:19:29And and before you uh before I go to you, Commissioner Scott answer, I just want to let everyone know in California, and I think it was just reported uh re a couple days ago, there were currently illegal aliens in the custody of California jurisdictions with active detainers.
▶ 3:19:45The crimes of these aliens include 399 homicides, 3,313 assaults, 3,171 burglaries, 1,11 robberies, 8,380 dangerous drug offenses, 1,984 weapon offenses, and 1,293 sexual predatory offenses. These are the real world consequences. Isn't that right, uh, Commissioner Scott? When we don't have cooperation, they're released into the community.
▶ 3:20:10That those are exactly the consequences. And I would just add California specific, they went above and beyond everybody else. I mean, in a negative way, they prohibited state and locals when they saw a crime taking place in front of them from sharing that information with us. San Diego, for example, right after that law was was passed, a highway patrol pulled over a U-Haul van and it was a smuggling event, probably a human trafficking event.
▶ 3:20:34a border patrol agent just happened to roll up on it and found out luckily but he that highway patrol was disciplined and actually investigated internally and that sent a chilling effect across the entire state of California that not only can you not actively take like help us you couldn't even pass information to us in a normal course of duties border security law enforcement is a team sport we need to be working together not against each other
▶ 3:20:59now can you explain what would have happened in I you alluded to it, but what would have happened prior to that? Uh, if there was local and state coordination with with federal law enforcement
▶ 3:21:11on a daily basis, especially along the southwest border and let's not forget and the coast because we have boats coming in. When a state or local agency would see illegal activity that they had act they could take action on and then they saw a federal crime, they would contact us. It happened all the time and that completely ceased to exist when SB54 was passed. And these crimes of course as you mentioned before if you go into specifics I mean this is trafficking both humans and drugs. This is uh rape assaults.
▶ 3:21:38I mean anything you were telling me that if any of those crimes occurred if right now under in California uh if if someone witnessed it if a state law enforcement or local law enforcement witnessed these crimes being committed they could notify you. They have some felony exceptions, but in most cases, you don't know until you start asking questions if it's just a smuggling event or a human trafficking event. Until you actually pop the trunk of the vehicle or the back of the car, you don't know what commodity is back there, if it's if it's people or something else.
▶ 3:22:07It put a chilling effect beyond the the the actual written language on any kind of cooperation in the state.
▶ 3:22:14Well, I want to thank you for that. Yes, there were some ex exceptions when it comes to felonies, but someone who lives uh in California and was there for the discussion and debate, everything we warned about when it came to sanctuary safe policies um and the consequences to our community and the consequences to public safety, they have come true and and that is sad and unfortunate and we need to undo those policies. So, I want to thank you all for your leadership and testimony and and your work. Thank you. And Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back.
▶ 3:22:41Gentleman yields back. I now recognize the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Carter for five minutes questions.
▶ 3:22:46Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And to our witnesses, thank you for being here. Um, what we've heard today and seen play out in the streets of this nation for the past year straight out of the Trump administration's fascist playbook. Cheat, murder, lie about, and practice the art of mass distraction. The American people are not happy about This administration's officials are sitting before us.
▶ 3:23:17Two people are dead. I understand that there's an investigation and you cannot go into the details about that. But there certainly appears to be no shame on the part of these officials who've undoubtedly watched some of your officers conduct themselves in ways that I know you don't condone, not as law-abiding people. Right? So, I got to give you the benefit of doubt.
▶ 3:23:41And I can't understand why you show no shame, no contrition, no remorse for the human lives that have been lost or for the of the constitution and the tearing apart of the moral fiber fiber of our They think apparently you think apparently you've been coached apparently you've been called out of the room with a forced break to be told to be more aggressive
▶ 3:24:12to push back against The American people saw that happen. The American people watched as you all looked at each other. Oh, I didn't ask for a break. And clearly you were called in the back to be coached a halftime locker room pep talk. This isn't a game. These are people's lives. We should all be, you should be, your officers should be held accountable.
▶ 3:24:41That no one is above the law. No one can evade the constitution. No person can evade what is right. Even though you think that Donald Trump will protect you and maybe he will for now, but there will be a time that you have to answer these questions. And while you have worked on many administrations and it's been asked, you worked on different administrations. What's different? I'll tell you what's different.
▶ 3:25:11The approach. the approach of how you conduct it your your your search and seizure. The reason there were so many others and there were not riots was because people were not being trampled. You had trained officers who knew the art of deescalation. They understood the rule of law. They understood the constitution. Yet now we continue to hear lies. Last year I took members of Congress on an oversight visit to ICE facility.
▶ 3:25:39We were told certain things that turned out to be patent lies. They told us things that we witnessed within moments of being there to not be true. Yet, we continue to hear you and some of my colleagues suggest, "Don't believe your eyes. Don't believe your ears. Just trust us." Well, the American people can see. And this notion that Democrats don't want enforcement. Those are talking points that are wrong. We want rapists and murderers off the street.
▶ 3:26:09We want the bad, the worst of the worst to be arrested and to be deported if they aren't supposed to be here. What we don't want is citizens running down the street being chased by ICE agents. People being shot on the streets by rogue officers who are in fact American citizens. What we don't want is to see people like Miss Good or Mr.
▶ 3:26:35prety simply doing what we often say, if you see something, say something. We don't want to see people dying on the streets. So, let me let me ask you a quick question, Mr. Lions. Has ICE ever detained American citizen such as they are not free to leave whether it is on the sidewalk, street, or thrown into the back of a ICE vehicle because they looked or sound a certain way.
▶ 3:27:04Even though they said they were American citizens. Yes or no? Quickly. I only got 38 seconds.
▶ 3:27:11No sir.
▶ 3:27:11That's never happened before.
▶ 3:27:13That we've arrested one. No sir.
▶ 3:27:16We've detained individuals to verify identity, but we haven't arrested or deported. No sir.
▶ 3:27:20Detain arrest. Check it out. It's same thing. Right. All right. Does What does an undocumented person look like or sound like? Does it look like Mr. Garbberino? Does it look like me? could look like anyone, sir.
▶ 3:27:35Okay. Well, how are you training your people? Because you've said and others have said, "If they sound a certain way, they look a certain way, we're going to stop them." That was quoted by your people. What do you say to that,
▶ 3:27:45sir? What I say is that ICE does criminal targeted enforcement based on intelligence, and we don't use the color of skin or accents for that.
▶ 3:27:52So, the person who said that was wrong.
▶ 3:27:54We'll let the gentleman We'll let the gentleman uh get that answer in in writing. His time has expired. We will now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Van Eps for 5 minutes of
▶ 3:28:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing and to our witnesses for testifying today. I want to commend the job the Trump administration and you gentlemen are doing to secure the border, enforce federal immigration laws, and keep dangerous criminals off our streets. Under President Biden, we saw unprecedented levels of illegal immigration, and many of those who came across the border were connected to transnational criminal organizations and have continued to commit crimes while in the United States.
▶ 3:28:33Despite doing everything they could to secure our borders, our brave CBP officers and Border Patrol agents were undermined at every turn by the Biden Harris administration. Yet, under President Trump, CBP, Border Patrol, and ICE have been empowered to do their job and fulfill their mission. As a representative from Tennessee, I can't help but compare operations in Minneapolis to those in Memphis.
▶ 3:28:57Federal law enforcement operations in Memphis have been successful by every standard and metric with Memphis State Task Force arresting over 6,000 people. And while immigration enforcement isn't a state of goal of this task force, there is no question that is that it is also taking place. The successful operations are due in large part to the outstanding outstanding leadership of Governor Lee, who has worked closely with federal partners.
▶ 3:29:22Over the last year, the Trump administration has arrested numerous gang members, pedophiles, and drug traffickers in Memphis with little fanfare or interference from activists. As a result of this cooperation, murders in Memphis are down by 47% since President Trump took office, and overall violent crime is down by 30%.
▶ 3:29:41In May of last year, ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations worked with Tennessee Highway Patrol and DHS Components to successfully arrest 196 criminal illegal aliens across the greater Nashville area. I am grateful for the role the members of the Tennessee Highway Patrol played in that operation and their cooperation has made my district significantly safer. Since then, over 56 partnering agencies are working together alongside ICE to keep Tennessans safe.
▶ 3:30:10ICE has carefully highlighted the worst of the worst criminal aliens it has arrested. Today, I will be entering into the record nearly 120 illegal aliens that have been arrested in Nashville with wrap sheets ranging from identity theft to drug smuggling, lararseny to arson, and robbery to rape. Federal agents are executing their mission to defend American citizens and protect our communities.
▶ 3:30:34The major challenge we've seen in Minneapolis and similar cities are directly caused by sanctuary city policies and the refusal of local leaders to enforce the law, preventing local law enforcement from working with ICE. This leaves ICE and others unsupported, having to manage protesters and domestic friction in addition to their actual mission of enforcing immigration law. Local law enforcement is crucial to facilitate the mission.
▶ 3:30:59Director Lions, contrast ICE's experience in Minneapolis with other cities around the country, including Memphis and others that have agreements to work with ICE. What can successful partnerships with local law enforcement and other partners look like?
▶ 3:31:15Sir, thank you. I I would say that Memphis is a prime example and I have to, you know, give credit to the US Marshall Service that's leading that operation. uh homeland security investigation agents are out there every day with the men and women of Tennessee Highway Patrol of Memphis Police Department. Um and the reduction in crime has been significant. But if you look across the country, almost at every state, we do have cooperative jurisdictions. If you look at Texas, Texas, we have outstanding cooperation. You don't see any riots or anything like that. You see sidebyside law enforcement working together as it would be.
▶ 3:31:44If you look at the state of Florida, state of Oklahoma, state of Louisiana, all across the nation, we do have that. And what it what it is is public safety.
▶ 3:31:52Thank you. Next, I want to commend the Trump administration for locking down our southern border. A year ago, it was it was a highway for illegal aliens and illicit materials. Today, it is secure and closed. Commissioner Scott, as Congress and the Trump administration enabled DHS to secure the southern border, how are cartels and other criminal organizations adapting to effective border enforcement?
▶ 3:32:14They're going to continue to uh to push back. I think some of it is in these protests because if we can shut down interior enforcement, that allows them to basically market their their goods, if you will, to smuggle people in. And they need those people to be distractions because without it, they have to start digging million-doll tunnels. Without it, they have to spend a bunch of money on drones, which we're countering. Without it, they have to go out into the ocean where they stick out like a sore thumb. And we're increasing our radars on the West Coast and increasing our our air coverage.
▶ 3:32:43basically it affects their bottom line and it makes it harder and harder for them to bring their poison and anybody that wants to threaten this country that's willing to pay them here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move to submit for the record uh a list of DHS worst of the worst in Tennessee, three quotes from Tennessee 7 sheriff supporting ICE and five new news articles germanine to the hearing in Tennessee. Mr. I yield back
▶ 3:33:05without objection. Gentleman yields back. I recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green for five minutes of questions. Thank you, M.
▶ 3:33:16Sorry, Mr. Chairman. Can you hear me now? Is it
▶ 3:33:20the microphone? Uh, right there.
▶ 3:33:25Well, will you give me a moment to get a bit closer, please? Little. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I say it sincerely. I believe this is a most valuable hearing and I'm honored that the ranking member would be here with us to accommodate us as is the case with you. Mr. Alliance, is it true that you have a criminal justice degree, a bachelor's degree in criminal justice?
▶ 3:33:54Yes, sir, it is.
▶ 3:33:56Is it also true that you have a master's degree in criminal justice leadership?
▶ 3:34:01Yes, I do. And would you as a professional with two degrees in criminal justice indicate to us that if an officer commits murder that that officer should be prosecuted?
▶ 3:34:16Sir, any law enforcement misconduct needs to be investigated and prosecuted?
▶ 3:34:20Investigated and prosecuted. And have you seen the widely published video of the killing of Mr. Alex Freddy? Yes, sir.
▶ 3:34:34And sir, my assumption is that if I ask you whether this was an injustice, you would say you cannot comment because of an ongoing investigation. Is that a fair statement?
▶ 3:34:45Yes, sir.
▶ 3:34:46And what is the rationale for not responding to an ongoing investigation?
▶ 3:34:52Sir, I don't want to impede orize the investigation.
▶ 3:34:56No, no, no. Not not this one. any any as your in your profession now but any investigation what's the rationale not this one any
▶ 3:35:04same for any any investigation sir I don't want to
▶ 3:35:07you would not
▶ 3:35:08I don't want to bias or put put my finger on the scale of any investigation
▶ 3:35:12you not what's the rationale for you're not testifying about it is my question
▶ 3:35:19I don't understand your question
▶ 3:35:20why why would what does the law say what is the rationale what harm would it do if you testified
▶ 3:35:27because I don't won't have the full facts of the case yet, sir.
▶ 3:35:30Exactly. That's what I expected you to say. You don't have the full facts. Thank you. And I assume you would agree with this, Mr. Scott. Is this true?
▶ 3:35:37Yes, sir.
▶ 3:35:37And Mr. Edllo, you would agree?
▶ 3:35:40I I I assume so. I'm not a professional in law enforcement.
▶ 3:35:43Well, but you're a professional person with a degree of intellect such that you can comment on whether or not
▶ 3:35:47I I certainly would not comment on
▶ 3:35:49Not not a specific case. We're talking about now any case. Would you agree that it would cause harm for you to testify before there's an investigation?
▶ 3:36:00Certainly, without having all the facts.
▶ 3:36:01All right. Surely you would agree. Which brings us to Secretary Gnome. Secretary Gnome accused Mr. Prey of brandishing a firearm while wishing to inflict harm on the officers. Secretary, no. Same rules that apply to you apply to Secretary No. Accuse these office, this gentleman, Mr.
▶ 3:36:31Prey, of brandishing a firearm. Secretary Gnome doing this when she did without an We have to agree that there's not been an investigation. I don't think I have to ask you that. not a complete investigation that we know of. Anyway, she did it right afterwards.
▶ 3:36:56Having done this, she is violating this very basic that you have called to our attention And we have to ask ourselves, why would she go so far as to say brandishing when he did not? The video will clearly show And she said, wishing to inflict harm. did not inflict any harm.
▶ 3:37:25But the secretary, without an investigation, made these comments. I'll tell you why. The secretary was in a rush to cover up to make sure that she was protecting the officers without regard for the life that was lost.
▶ 3:37:53And in doing this, she was violating not only this basic moral concept, she was breaking the law. The secretary should be investigated right along with those officers who are out there engaged in this ungodly conduct.
▶ 3:38:14She should be investigated and in my opinion based upon my Secretary should not only be investigated, the secretary should be prosecuted right along with those officers. This man did not brandish. This man was not armed. This man did not attempt to hurt those officers. They should all be prosecuted. And you persons associated with the
▶ 3:38:44gentleman's time say lock her up.
▶ 3:38:46I say lock her up.
▶ 3:38:48Gentleman's time is expired. I now recognize the rank member for UC's.
▶ 3:38:53That's correct, Mr. Chair.
▶ 3:38:55Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert two statements for the record. one submitted by the Refugee Council USA and the other from the Baptist Joint Committee on Religious Liberty.
▶ 3:39:10Without objection.
▶ 3:39:12Mr. Chairman, on behalf of Ms. Ramirez, I ask unanimous consent to include in the record three articles. One, a Chicago Sun Times article describing how US Border Patrol has separated a family. Number two, ABC7 Chicago article that describes how ISIS warrantless arrest in Chicago has been ruled unlawful by a federal judge.
▶ 3:39:43And third, a p a ProPublica article documenting how immigration agents are you are using ban choke holes and other moves that cannot can cut off breathing. Without objection. Mr.
▶ 3:40:01Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the following articles. A CBS News article that states that contrary to the administration's claim, only 14% of those arrested by ICE had violent criminal records.
▶ 3:40:20an NPR story about a DHS memo that says ICE can enter people's home without a judicial warrant, which has alarmed members on both sides of the aisle. An article from the Marshall Project that alleges that there are thousands of kids in detention, many for longer than the court prescribed limit.
▶ 3:40:46an article from the Independent about a sick five-year-old lame Ramos asking for his mom in a detention center which rebutts testimony we heard today that ICE was taking good care of him.
▶ 3:41:04A report from the Center for Election Innovation and Research updated this month that found that noncitizen voting is rare and allegations of the practice are a result of misunderstandings or fabrication. an article from the AP which highlights that federal authorities are monitoring and tracking individuals who criticize immigration enforcement operation.
▶ 3:41:35A report from the Brennan Center titled ICE wants to go after the sinners as well as immigrants. a report from the Guardian that describes the terrible condition in ICE facilities and that ICE denied urgent medical care to a without objection. I want to thank gentlemen Y's back. I want to thank the members uh or the witnesses for being here today and all the members for their questions.
▶ 3:42:04Members of the committee may have some additional questions for the witnesses and we ask that the witnesses to respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rule 7E, uh the hearing record will be held open for 10 10 days. I want to uh uh let the audience know that uh please still be seated while the witnesses and their teams uh leave. Without objection, this committee stands